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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, a young married mom of

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Speaker 1: one little boy, shot dead on a movie set by

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Speaker 1: none other than movie star Alec Baldwin in the Last Hours,

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Speaker 1: a stunning twist to the so called Rust movie shooting death.

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Speaker 1: I'm Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thank you for

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Speaker 1: being with us.

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Speaker 2: That's right.

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Speaker 1: In the Last Days, movie star mega millionaire Alec Baldwin

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Speaker 1: is actually suing the prosecutors that brought a case against him.

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Speaker 2: The prosecutors and the investigators.

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Speaker 1: Tied to the Rust movie shooting death of Elena Hutchins.

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Speaker 2: Now remember, although he denied.

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Speaker 1: It, it was proven by forensic experts that Alec Baldwin

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Speaker 1: did pull the trigger the bullet that killed a young mom.

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Speaker 1: But now actor Alec Baldwin files a civil lawsuit for

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Speaker 1: malicious prosecution and civil rights violation in the fatal shooting

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Speaker 1: of the gorgeous young cinematographer. The lawsuit file get a

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Speaker 1: state district court in Santa Fe, where a judge dismissed

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Speaker 1: manslaughter charges against Baldwin, claiming prosecutors and investigators mishandled evidence

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Speaker 1: as they pursued the case. Instead of sanctioning them, the

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Speaker 1: judge simply threw out the case and now Alec Baldwin

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Speaker 1: having a field day with that, actually suing the prosecutors

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Speaker 1: that oversaw the case.

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Speaker 3: What happened were tragedy on the film set of a

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Speaker 3: new Alec Baldwin movie and what police are calling a

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Speaker 3: misfire of a prop gun in Santa Fe, New Mexico.

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Speaker 4: Griff's office there has just confirmed it was Baldwin who

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Speaker 4: fired the prop gun that killed a forty two year

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Speaker 4: old female director of photography, Helena Hutchins.

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Speaker 5: The film's director, Juel Suso, was also hurt. This incident

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Speaker 5: happened on the set of The Western Rust. Now detectives

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Speaker 5: are investigating what type of projectile discharged from this gun.

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Speaker 1: You were just hearing our friend Christine Johnson with CBS

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Speaker 1: what really happened. According to reports, the assistant yelled out

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Speaker 1: cold gun just before the shooting, which means the gun

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Speaker 1: was safe, that it was loaded with a blank.

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Speaker 2: So how do we have.

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Speaker 1: A woman, dad, another film person injured? With me an

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Speaker 1: all star panel to make sense of it all if

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Speaker 1: we can with me Domini Romano Lawyer joining us out

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Speaker 1: of New York at Romano Law dot Com is specialty

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Speaker 1: entertainment law and I can tell you if somebody's going

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Speaker 1: to a lawyer. Doctor Sherry Schortz, forensic psychologists joining us.

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Speaker 2: Karen L.

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Speaker 1: Smith, forensic expert, host of Shattered Soul's podcast at Beerbonesforensics

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Speaker 1: dot com. Paul Zeike joining us special guest, former police

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Speaker 1: commander and author of Stop Him From Killing Them on Amazon,

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Speaker 1: and he has lots of experience using firearms with blanks

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Speaker 1: during live action movie scenes like Terminator Salvation. Doctor Michelle Dupre,

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Speaker 1: forensic pathologist, former medical examiner, author of Homicide Investigation Field Guide,

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Speaker 1: and a former police detective. But first to Alexis Terresschuk

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Speaker 1: Crime online dot Com investigative reporter joining us from Hollywood.

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Speaker 2: Alexis is what is getting folded into the story right

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Speaker 2: or wrong?

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Speaker 1: Is Alec Baldwin's history, his reputation for let me just

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Speaker 1: say headedness, to put it ephemistically. If he thought it

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Speaker 1: was a blank and it should have been a blank,

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Speaker 1: then history aside it was an accident. But how can

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Speaker 1: it really be an accident when somebody loaded this prop

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Speaker 1: gun with real bullets? Just start at the beginning.

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Speaker 6: They were on a set in Santa Fe, New Mexico,

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Speaker 6: it's a Western style movie. So they were sitting in

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Speaker 6: a church at an old church scene, and Alex Baldwin

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Speaker 6: was sitting in one of the pewes, and he was

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Speaker 6: practicing what's called a cross draw, and so that would

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Speaker 6: be where the person takes your left hand and grabs

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Speaker 6: the gun out of the holster on your opposite hip,

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Speaker 6: pulls it across to fire. He was practicing this move

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Speaker 6: standing the cinematographer, which is the person that makes the

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Speaker 6: movie beautiful.

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Speaker 7: This is the person that.

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Speaker 6: That films the scene. She was standing in front of

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Speaker 6: him with the assistant director stand i'mbard with the director

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Speaker 6: standing right behind her. He was looking over her shoulder

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Speaker 6: to see what it would look like when Alex.

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Speaker 2: Pulled the gun out.

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Speaker 6: He pulls it out of the side, points it at

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Speaker 6: her to show them, pulls the trigger and it fires

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Speaker 6: a live round into her. Hits her in the stomach

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Speaker 6: and actually, believe goes through her and grazes the director

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Speaker 6: sitting standing right behind her.

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Speaker 1: Hush has pronounced dead at an Albuquerque hospital after being

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Speaker 1: rushed to the emergency room. You know what, I always

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Speaker 1: love playing nine one one calls for a jury because

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Speaker 1: it takes you back to what's really happening, not a description,

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Speaker 1: not someone recounting what happened, but you're hearing what really happened.

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Speaker 1: Take a listen to the beginning of that nine to

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Speaker 1: one one call.

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Speaker 6: We did like the location of your emergency.

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Speaker 8: At a Finanza Creek branch. Right now, we've got to

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Speaker 8: people shot on accidentally. She said, someone was shot. Two

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Speaker 8: people accidental gunshot movie steps and the Greek grandy, I'll

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Speaker 8: connect you with medical decides they don't need us.

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Speaker 6: Who are you calling?

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Speaker 2: Where are the roads?

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Speaker 7: Fire?

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Speaker 2: Any ms?

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Speaker 8: Emergency Bonanza Creek grants.

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Speaker 7: Two people accidentally.

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Speaker 8: Shot on the steps, top gun We need help the media,

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Speaker 8: Bonanza Creek grants.

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Speaker 2: Come on, stay almost phone.

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Speaker 8: We're gonna okay, what is your name?

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Speaker 6: Namely Mitchell?

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Speaker 7: Mitchell wants upon where you're calling from?

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Speaker 8: Five up?

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Speaker 1: Don't hang up?

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Speaker 8: Okay, hold on just one second. Sounds like somebody else

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Speaker 8: is calling to Its probably better, miss good. Everybody should

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Speaker 8: be We need some help us direct you're in our

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Speaker 8: cameraman's camera, woman's shot.

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Speaker 1: Now you hear repeatedly the word accident accidentally throughout that,

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Speaker 1: But is it an accident? Very often, when you have,

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Speaker 1: for instance, a dui crash. People go, well, it was

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Speaker 1: an accident, But was it because the driver chooses to

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Speaker 1: go to a bar to order drinks, to drink, to

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Speaker 1: become legally intoxicated, to then get the car keys, walk

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Speaker 1: to the car, get in the car, crank up reverse,

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Speaker 1: and drive out onto the roads. That sounds pretty deliberate.

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Speaker 1: So is it an accident? Is it gross negligence? Well,

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Speaker 1: take a listen to more of that nine to one

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Speaker 1: one call.

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Speaker 8: So was it loaded with a real bullet or I

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Speaker 8: cannot tell you that. Okay, we have two injuries from

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Speaker 8: the movie's done shots. Okay, we're getting out there already,

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Speaker 8: just down up on thing.

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Speaker 6: Okay, I see that yelled at me at lunch. Could

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Speaker 6: ask them about revision.

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Speaker 7: You can yell at me.

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Speaker 8: He's a suggested gun, so he's responsible. I don't have

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Speaker 8: to answer how many No, no, no, I'm super hard Iran.

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Speaker 8: People are angerous, true that I know of.

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Speaker 7: I was here.

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Speaker 8: We were a hurtant and it went off and I

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Speaker 8: ran out. We all ran out. There were but doubles

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Speaker 8: over the id and the camera woman and the director

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Speaker 8: and the directors were clearing the road and to come back.

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Speaker 8: We're back on the we're back in the town called

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Speaker 8: the We're back in the Western town.

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Speaker 7: Is there any serious bleeding?

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Speaker 9: I don't know.

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Speaker 8: I ran out of the building, but when R and

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Speaker 8: I still have to go through these.

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Speaker 6: Okay, are they comply alert on?

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Speaker 2: I'm here? A lot of discussion in the background.

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Speaker 1: You hear the speaker talking to somebody else about someone

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Speaker 1: yelling at her and Lutch about script revision, and she

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Speaker 1: says she's supposed to shack the gun. He's responsible for

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Speaker 1: what happened. No, No, I'm a script supervisor Crime Stories

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Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. Young woman Helena Hutchins died very shortly

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Speaker 1: after she was shot during rehearsal on the movie set

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Speaker 1: of Rust. It was at a film set ranch on

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Speaker 1: the outskirts of Santa Fe in Mexico. Baldwin was the

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Speaker 1: lead actor and co producer of the movie and was

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Speaker 1: pointing a pistol directly at Miss Hutchins when it went off,

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Speaker 1: killing her and wounding the director Joel Susa. Now, Baldwin

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Speaker 1: admitted immediately he had pulled back the hammer but not

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Speaker 1: the trigger, and the gun fired. Ballistics proved he did

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Speaker 1: pull the trigger. Now, the whole thing went sideways. The

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Speaker 1: trial was turned on his ear by claims ammunition was

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Speaker 1: brought into the Santa Fe County Sheriff's office by a

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Speaker 1: man who said it could be related to the killing.

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Speaker 1: Prosecutors at the time deemed the ammo was unrelated. Baldwin's

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Speaker 1: lawyers say investigators buried the evidence in a separate folder,

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Speaker 1: and they filed a motion to dismiss, and the judge

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Speaker 1: granted it. That decision aside. In the last days, Alec

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Speaker 1: Baldwin not happy that his chargers were thrown out by

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Speaker 1: the judge, now suing prosecutors and investigators.

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Speaker 2: But what happened at the time, Paul Zake, thank you

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Speaker 2: for being with us.

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Speaker 1: What went wrong? Obviously there was a live bullet and

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Speaker 1: what should have been a prop gun.

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Speaker 10: But what happened, Nancy? The only explanation for this is

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Speaker 10: a systemic breakdown in systems that are in place to

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Speaker 10: ensure live ammunition is not present on the set.

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Speaker 1: Okay, now, that was a lot of words, Paul's I

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Speaker 1: think you're saying somebody didn't do their job.

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Speaker 10: Well, absolutely, somebody did not do their job and catastrophically

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Speaker 10: did not do that. There's no reason whatsoever for live

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Speaker 10: ammunition to be on the set of any set. Because

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Speaker 10: these weapons are capable of firing live rounds, they're not

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Speaker 10: really prop guns. They're deadly weapons being used as props.

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Speaker 2: Okay, hold on right there, I want to make that distinction.

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Speaker 1: You're absolutely right when look, I'm a trial lawyer, I'm

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Speaker 1: a legal expert. You're the expert in this world. When

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Speaker 1: I say prop gun, I mean they're using it as

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Speaker 1: a prop. But you're making a very fine, subtle, but

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Speaker 1: important distinction. A prompt gun is a fake gun. I

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Speaker 1: don't think it even can shoot. Is that right.

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Speaker 10: Exactly you're talking about?

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Speaker 11: And say it pop nice?

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Speaker 10: Correct? It has a flat edge on it, capable of

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Speaker 10: cutting you. These are things that are not deemed to

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Speaker 10: be dangerous. A prop gun is simply as utilized on set.

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Speaker 10: Our weapons that are capable of firing live ammunition and

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Speaker 10: therefore accidentally live ammunition could be mixed with blank rounds.

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Speaker 10: You know, given time, this is just a disaster waiting

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Speaker 10: to happen. They need to move to true guns that

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Speaker 10: are incapable of chambering live ammunition. Until that happens, this

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Speaker 10: has a very strong chance of repeating itself.

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Speaker 1: Well, okay, tell me this. Paul's II guys with me

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Speaker 1: Paul z I. He is a former police commander. He's

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Speaker 1: an author, screen actors gil and has experience using blanks

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Speaker 1: during live action movie scenes where we all think they're

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Speaker 1: shooting real guns. If you suspend your disbelief in movies

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Speaker 1: like his Terminator Salvation, those aren't real guns.

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Speaker 2: So why are they using a real gun? To start with?

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Speaker 1: Paul's I and I mean to me, having been forced

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Speaker 1: to handle so many guns and so many homicides, what

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Speaker 1: moron wouldn't make sure that there were blanks in the gun.

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Speaker 10: It's hard to imagine that during the loading of the

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Speaker 10: weapon that that was not viewed very strictly as the

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Speaker 10: weapon is loaded. And also there's a chaine of custody

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Speaker 10: issue here on the scene of Terminator Salvation. As we

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Speaker 10: would go out and we would you conduct the battle scene,

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Speaker 10: if you will, in the middle of the night. We

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Speaker 10: would be handed directly from the armor, fully automatic weapons

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Speaker 10: and magazines, fully loaded with blanks, and we would head

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Speaker 10: straight out to where the scene was to be shot,

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Speaker 10: and then we would engage in the scene. You know,

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Speaker 10: five ten minutes later, hand the weapons straight back to

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Speaker 10: the armor, all the ammunition back to the armor, all

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Speaker 10: the magazines back to the armor, and we would not

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Speaker 10: be able to touch those weapons again until the next scene.

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Speaker 10: So from a I mean a custody standpoint, and went

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Speaker 10: directly from the armor, directly to my hand, my the

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Speaker 10: co actor's hands that were with me, and that was

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Speaker 10: maintained very strictly.

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Speaker 1: Hold On, Paul, I've got to soak in everything you're saying,

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Speaker 1: because dominic Romano a high profile lawyer joining us out

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Speaker 1: of New York's specialty entertainment law.

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Speaker 2: And that's why Dominate's joining us today. Dominick, hold on.

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Speaker 1: When you heard Paul's like say, chain of custody, I

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Speaker 1: immediately thought of a serial murderer that I prosecuted on

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Speaker 1: one murder. We could get him on one and there

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Speaker 1: ended up I would say, three weeks before trial. I

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Speaker 1: was just looking at the evidence and I noticed that

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Speaker 1: the bag that contained the evidence wasn't signed.

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Speaker 2: It had never been signed by.

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Speaker 1: The homicide cop that picked it up from It was DNA,

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Speaker 1: and there's blood from where it had been taken and

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Speaker 1: carried to the crime lab. It wasn't written on the back.

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Speaker 1: Did anybody tamper with it? No, he just didn't put

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Speaker 1: his initials. I'm like, oh, dear Lord in Heaven, the

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Speaker 1: chain is broken. This could be attacked at trial. I

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Speaker 1: had to go back out to the jail, stand there

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Speaker 1: and look at this killer while he pulled his blood again.

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Speaker 1: Then I carried it with my investigator myself back to

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Speaker 1: the crime lab to have it retested.

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Speaker 2: Praise the Lord in Heaven. It was his DNA. Long

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Speaker 2: story short, that's chain of custody. Your case can be lost.

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Speaker 1: You can lose a serial killer because somebody didn't keep

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Speaker 1: the chain to preserve the integrity of the trial. That's

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Speaker 1: what I thought when Paul Zike said chain of custody.

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Speaker 1: But did you also hear him say dominant romano. He

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Speaker 1: handed it back to the It sounded like he was

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Speaker 1: saying armor or armory. But I've been reading about this case.

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Speaker 1: It's an arm er, armor er who is the person

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Speaker 1: in charge of all the weapons. Hey, somebody is either

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Speaker 1: going to jail. Are they going to lose their house

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Speaker 1: over a lawsuit?

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Speaker 2: Dominant Romano?

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Speaker 11: You're right, Nancy, and I think Paul is absolutely right.

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Speaker 11: Look in twenty twenty one, no one should ever be

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Speaker 11: killed by a gun on a film set. Period. Those

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Speaker 11: are the words of Brandon Lee's sister Brandon Lee shot

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Speaker 11: on a film set in the early nineteen nineties. This

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Speaker 11: should not happen. There are established protocols, chains of commend

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Speaker 11: Naji said, someone would either going to jail or lose

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Speaker 11: their house. It's highly likely here. I mean, there appears

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Speaker 11: to be some serious gross negligence on that set to

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Speaker 11: allow that to have that. That is the appearance. And

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Speaker 11: I don't know what evidence can come out to rebut.

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Speaker 1: That presumption a live round in well as Paul's ike

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Speaker 1: is correct in me, it's not a prop gun. They

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Speaker 1: were using real guns. Hey, let me ask you a question,

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Speaker 1: Paul's ike. Explain the difference and what a blank looks

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Speaker 1: like as opposed to a live round a bullet. And

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Speaker 1: we're saying live rounds, we're talking about a bullet. What's

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Speaker 1: the difference. Can't you just look at them and you

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Speaker 1: can see the difference In.

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Speaker 10: Most cases, absolutely, it's very clear. You can see the

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Speaker 10: difference in some types of calibers, say two two three,

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Speaker 10: if you will, that's what an AR fifteen would shoot.

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Speaker 10: The blanks are kind of crimped at the end to

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Speaker 10: almost look like there's a bullet on the end of them.

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Speaker 10: With any sort of trained professional whatsoever. When you're handling

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Speaker 10: a blank, you know it's a blank. When it's a bullet,

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Speaker 10: you know it's a bullet. The blank does not have

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Speaker 10: a lead projectile or a steel projectile at the end

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Speaker 10: of the round, So at the end it's either flat

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Speaker 10: or it's slightly crimped to hold in the gunpowder, which

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Speaker 10: you know, the firearm usually needs the gunpowder to correctly

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Speaker 10: function the weapon and cycle the weapon, and that's one

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Speaker 10: of the reasons why blanks are used.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Paul's I really respect you, but you're going to

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Speaker 1: have to dumb me down for me, okay, because I

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Speaker 1: would have to put you through intensive training before you

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Speaker 1: took the stand because a lot of people do not

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Speaker 1: know what you just said. Just think about it and

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Speaker 1: think if there's a way you can say it in

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Speaker 1: more simple terms. What's the difference between a blank and

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Speaker 1: a lie bullet when you look at it? Speak English

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Speaker 1: Man in the meantime. Wait a minute, you mentioned Brandon Lee,

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Speaker 1: and you're absolutely right. We pulled sound of other cases

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Speaker 1: almost identical to this. This is not the first time

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Speaker 1: it's happened, Believe it or not, Tyler, could you roll

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Speaker 1: our cut forty four. Let's follow up on what Paul

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Speaker 1: Zike said about Brandon.

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Speaker 6: Lee's A bully comes from that killed Brandon Lee. Some

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Speaker 6: believe a piece of a proply without gunpowder, and it

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Speaker 6: may have been left accidentally in the gun.

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Speaker 11: The blank was fired at Brandon.

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Speaker 9: Some feel let's shot out the propoly.

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Speaker 10: Mortally wounding him.

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Speaker 7: He was an action way and happened.

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Speaker 6: The Crow crewmember we spoke with says that there were

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Speaker 6: many opportunities for an accident to happen.

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Speaker 7: Are the working conditions on the set of The Crow,

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Speaker 7: particularly that threely.

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Speaker 12: Long hours, eighteen hour days back to back at times

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Speaker 12: pushing ninety one hundred hours a week and six day

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Speaker 12: weeks way too much?

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Speaker 2: Do you think that that over work, that exhaustion might

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Speaker 2: have resulted in this accident?

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Speaker 12: Sage your concience olive them were definitely not call. It

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Speaker 12: could have been prevented with better management.

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Speaker 10: The publicist for the movie The Crow denies that the

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Speaker 10: working conditions were unsafe.

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Speaker 13: Certainly, everyone was very tired and exhausted from the shoe,

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Speaker 13: but these are professionals and they're used to working conditions

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Speaker 13: like this.

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Speaker 1: Okay, guys, you were hearing our friends and inside edition,

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Speaker 1: and I want to follow up on what we're just

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Speaker 1: hearing with Alexis Tereschuk. I played that sound for a reason, Alexis,

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Speaker 1: because on the Alec Baldwin set of Rust, there apparently

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Speaker 1: were problems with working conditions. A group of the crew

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Speaker 1: had walked out, I think the night before the claiming

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Speaker 1: that they had bad hotel They were an hour away

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Speaker 1: from a hotel or motel and if they worked late

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Speaker 1: into the night, they have to drive.

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Speaker 2: Through I guess the desert and a lot of them.

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Speaker 1: Were actually sleeping in their cars overnight. That's just some

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Speaker 1: of the complaints I've heard. But what are the other complaints,

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Speaker 1: if any, on the Alec Baldwin movie set.

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Speaker 6: Well, there have been complaints that things were not safe quote.

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Speaker 6: But one of the person is being directly blamed for

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Speaker 6: a lot of the unfaked is when you were listening

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Speaker 6: to the nine one one call and you said you

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Speaker 6: heard the woman saying that he was yelling at me

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Speaker 6: things like that. This is the assistant director that they're

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Speaker 6: talking about. And this is the assistant director, David Halls,

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Speaker 6: who handed the gun to Baldwin and said this is

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Speaker 6: a cold gun. So what the people on the set

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Speaker 6: were saying is that Halls was not a responsible person.

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Speaker 6: He was very angry. He was making the job very

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Speaker 6: difficult for everybody to do, and they did it trust him.

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Speaker 1: Wait a minute, you're saying, David Halls was an assistant director.

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Speaker 2: Yes, okay, Well what about the horror.

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Speaker 1: Isn't she the one responsible for all the weapons and

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Speaker 1: the blanks or the bullets? Guys, take another Listen to

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Speaker 1: our cut forty three. This is about practically the same

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Speaker 1: thing happening before.

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Speaker 2: Listen.

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Speaker 9: It was here at the Carrol Coast Studios in Wilmington,

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Speaker 9: North Carolina, that actor Brandon Lee was filming The Crow.

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Speaker 2: Ironically, the film is about.

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Speaker 7: A man who dies and comes back to life to

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Speaker 7: advanish his death.

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Speaker 10: Shortly after midnight last Tuesday, Brandon Lee was preparing to

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Speaker 10: film a routine action scene.

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Speaker 11: The script called for him to get shot at as he.

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Speaker 10: Walks through door carrying a bag of groceries.

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Speaker 8: Michael Massey, the actor doing the shooting, is reportedly devastated

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Speaker 8: by Lee's death and.

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Speaker 11: Remains in seclusion.

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Speaker 2: The gun he was using was supposed to be loaded

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Speaker 2: with blanks from the camera's rule.

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Speaker 11: Brandon Lee was performing for the last.

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Speaker 1: Time millionaire movie star Alec Baldwin suing prosecutors and investigators

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Speaker 1: tied to the movie Rust shooting death off Alena Hutchins.

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Speaker 1: You know some would argue, don't kick a gift horse

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Speaker 1: in the mouth, take your dismissal and run. Apparently Alec

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Speaker 1: Baldwin doesn't agree with that sage advice and is actually

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Speaker 1: suing prosecutors.

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Speaker 9: Way you and Karen Smith, Well, we deal a lot

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Speaker 9: with forensics in physics.

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Speaker 14: When we do a reconstruction, we use snippets of time

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Speaker 14: and sometimes that can be split seconds, and this includes

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Speaker 14: trajectories of projectiles, and this trajectory can.

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Speaker 9: Generally be explained by the reporting. Alec Baldwin was reported

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Speaker 9: to be sitting at a church pew to align a

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Speaker 9: camera angle when the gun was fired. Alena Hutchins then

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Speaker 9: collapsed on the floor and Joel's Susa was struck in

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Speaker 9: the clavicles. That's an upward trajectory, which means both Hutchins

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Speaker 9: and Susa were standing up when the event occurred. The projectile,

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Speaker 9: now that has yet to be officially named as a

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Speaker 9: specific caliber bullet or as something else that came out

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Speaker 9: of the gun muzzle that perporated Helena's body and something

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Speaker 9: cuinently structurals. Now, in order for that to happen, the

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Speaker 9: kinetic energy, which is energy as the result of motion,

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Speaker 9: would be very high. We're dealing with mass or.

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Speaker 14: The amount of matter in an object and energy dispersion.

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Speaker 9: Guns carry a high volume of energy in a small space,

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Speaker 9: and that from my experience, it tells me that it

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Speaker 9: was something other than just the paper or elastic wadding

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Speaker 9: from a blank round. That needs to be confirmed by.

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Speaker 14: The EMMY and the investigators.

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Speaker 9: But there are reports of live ammunition bullets being on

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Speaker 9: the set and that particular gun allegedly being used for target.

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Speaker 14: Practice that morning. There's a lot of questions that needs

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Speaker 14: to be answered by the investigators and.

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Speaker 1: Theme again for the set being used as target practice.

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Speaker 1: Paul Zike, that shouldn't be that you've got crew members

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Speaker 1: out shooting bottles. I think that that's coming out with

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Speaker 1: live bullets and use that same gun for a sane

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Speaker 1: and a church full of people.

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Speaker 10: And Nancy, I just want to clarify the prior point.

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Speaker 10: So very simply, a blank is a shellcasing with gunpowder

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Speaker 10: in it with no bullet. A bullet is the same

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Speaker 10: exact thing with more gunpowder and a live bullet at

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Speaker 10: the end of it that is made to travel through

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Speaker 10: the barrel and exit the weapon. Back to what you

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Speaker 10: were saying, that the cardinal rule, it's been broken, whether

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Speaker 10: you're whether you're involved in police training or you're involved

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Speaker 10: in a movie set, keeping live ammunition away from weapons

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Speaker 10: that fire live ammunition, and keeping weapons at fire blanks

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Speaker 10: away from those instances.

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Speaker 11: And when you mix those two.

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Speaker 10: Together, the odds of somebody having a spare live round

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Speaker 10: in one of their pockets or you name it is

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Speaker 10: super high, and it sounds very sloppy, and it just

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Speaker 10: just opens the door for terrible things to happen. And

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Speaker 10: that's where the systemic breakdown controlled environment.

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Speaker 1: I'm telling you. Paul's like, you're right. Super sloppy is

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Speaker 1: one way to put it. Gross negligence or unintentional murder

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Speaker 1: is another.

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Speaker 2: Way to put it. I think I hear dominant Ramano

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Speaker 2: jumping in go ahead.

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Speaker 11: Yeah, Basically it's a catastrophic miscalculation. I think two people

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Speaker 11: here should be folks. We should focus on. One is

442
00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:25,600
Speaker 11: the armor like this is only according to reports or

443
00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:29,160
Speaker 11: second movie with chairs read and the assistant director Dave

444
00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:32,600
Speaker 11: Hall's you mentioned before According to reports, he was fired

445
00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:36,480
Speaker 11: from a twenty nineteen production of Freedom's Past. If a

446
00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:37,639
Speaker 11: minor injury?

447
00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:39,880
Speaker 2: Whoa white a minute? Why wh wh why white white?

448
00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:42,280
Speaker 1: You got me drinking from the fire hydrant, which is

449
00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:44,320
Speaker 1: not a bad thing. It's too much at once. Hold on,

450
00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:46,960
Speaker 1: why in the world would you have somebody that was

451
00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:50,640
Speaker 1: fired off another similar job handling your weapon?

452
00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:53,320
Speaker 2: Okay? Is that what you just said, Dominic?

453
00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:53,720
Speaker 11: Okay?

454
00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:55,919
Speaker 2: Almost so almost.

455
00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:59,600
Speaker 11: The armor is twenty four years old. The person in

456
00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:02,680
Speaker 11: the handle the weapons. It's only her second film. She

457
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:05,440
Speaker 11: was just in a podcast last month where she said,

458
00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:07,720
Speaker 11: you know, she's a bit nervous about her film, but

459
00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:10,639
Speaker 11: it went well her while there is apparently a famous armor, okay,

460
00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:13,280
Speaker 11: so we have that an experienced armor. Number two, we

461
00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:17,760
Speaker 11: have the assistant director known as the ad Dve Holes. Apparently,

462
00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:20,160
Speaker 11: according to a report, he was fired from its twenty

463
00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:24,320
Speaker 11: nineteen production. The movie was Freedom Passed after crew members

464
00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:29,679
Speaker 11: suffered guess what a minor injury when a gun unexpectedly discharged?

465
00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:35,600
Speaker 1: Dominic Ramano, the words similar transactions are jumping to mind.

466
00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:38,879
Speaker 1: I meant, if there is a trial, you know that

467
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:43,200
Speaker 1: previous incident is going to come in. I mean This

468
00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:47,760
Speaker 1: solidifies my thought that this is not an accident, because

469
00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:52,160
Speaker 1: an accident when you totally don't see it coming, it's

470
00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:53,320
Speaker 1: just like out of the blue.

471
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:54,920
Speaker 2: But if this guy, if it's.

472
00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:58,320
Speaker 1: Correct, the ad had a previous incident where somebody was

473
00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:01,680
Speaker 1: shot on a set, even if it was a minor injury,

474
00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:05,000
Speaker 1: then you should have seen either new or.

475
00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:07,440
Speaker 2: Should have known. Would you agree with that, Dominic Romano.

476
00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:12,520
Speaker 11: They're going to be some serious questions to be asked,

477
00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:16,920
Speaker 11: and there have to be answers, and if we don't

478
00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:21,000
Speaker 11: have good answers, someone is either going to be involved

479
00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:25,040
Speaker 11: in a very expensive lawsuit or depending on what they

480
00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:27,280
Speaker 11: knew and when they knew it and how careless they were,

481
00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:31,159
Speaker 11: probably facing some time. The other issue you alluded to

482
00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:35,000
Speaker 11: earlier is, you know, cost cutting. It's rampant in the

483
00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:39,320
Speaker 11: industry right now. We're coming out of a pandemic, and

484
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:45,320
Speaker 11: the production company's decision not to book the crew hotel

485
00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:48,760
Speaker 11: rooms near the actual set, but to have them travel

486
00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:51,480
Speaker 11: an hour in each direction to get to and from

487
00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:56,400
Speaker 11: their accommodation, to have long hours where people walked off

488
00:27:56,480 --> 00:28:00,320
Speaker 11: the set earlier that day in protest. So this is

489
00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:03,760
Speaker 11: a combination of what turned out to be a lethal

490
00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:07,920
Speaker 11: combination at catastrophic calculation on the part of the production company.

491
00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:10,960
Speaker 1: Well, you just said a mouthful, all in a good way.

492
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:15,200
Speaker 1: Between the armorer being an experience, the ad having a

493
00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:19,840
Speaker 1: prior similar transaction, and budget cuts problems amongst the crew.

494
00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:23,520
Speaker 1: Take a listen to our cut six that from our

495
00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:24,640
Speaker 1: friends at News Nation.

496
00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:28,000
Speaker 13: Now let's start with the people responsible for handling a gun.

497
00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:31,159
Speaker 13: There are no ubiquitous rules across all film sets, but

498
00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:33,080
Speaker 13: generally there are some guidelines.

499
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:34,679
Speaker 5: That they follow, and here into a budget.

500
00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:36,200
Speaker 10: Budget usually plays a big role.

501
00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:38,880
Speaker 13: In many sets, there are no fewer than three people

502
00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:42,120
Speaker 13: responsible for monitoring a weapon. The prop master FUMS, in

503
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:44,719
Speaker 13: charge of all cropts, is often supported by a safety

504
00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:47,720
Speaker 13: officer and a stunt coordinator, and depending on the state,

505
00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:50,160
Speaker 13: you may also need to bring in an armorer whose

506
00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:53,920
Speaker 13: only job is handling weapons. An armorer is required by

507
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:55,160
Speaker 13: New Mexico state law.

508
00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:03,960
Speaker 2: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

509
00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:12,600
Speaker 1: Instead of taking his trial dismissal headed to him, You're

510
00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:15,600
Speaker 1: wrapped on a silver platter by in a Mexico judge

511
00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:21,200
Speaker 1: Alec Baldwin is now suing prosecutors and investigators linked to

512
00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:27,800
Speaker 1: the Rust movie shooting. Death of Felina Hutchins. What actually

513
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:32,480
Speaker 1: happened that fateful day on the Rust movie set? Doctor Dupree,

514
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:36,800
Speaker 1: I'm sure you, like myself, have had to handle weapons

515
00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:41,600
Speaker 1: in front of jury's and I learned this from watching

516
00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:45,720
Speaker 1: a pro trycases. I would always pick the gun up,

517
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:51,560
Speaker 1: holding it face down with a barrel pointing to the ground,

518
00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:54,960
Speaker 1: so the jury or anyone else would not be alarmed.

519
00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:57,560
Speaker 1: What you don't want to do is scare your jury.

520
00:29:58,120 --> 00:29:58,800
Speaker 2: I would walk in.

521
00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:02,720
Speaker 1: Front of the jury holding the weapon nose down, open

522
00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:06,280
Speaker 1: the chamber, let them see me check it, hold it

523
00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:10,640
Speaker 1: up like I was examining it through you know, my

524
00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:14,560
Speaker 1: eye level, so they could see that it was empty,

525
00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:17,720
Speaker 1: and then shut it and then give it to the

526
00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:22,720
Speaker 1: witness without fail, even if it was a weapon that

527
00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:29,760
Speaker 1: I knew was inoperable, that was sp Why would that

528
00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:33,680
Speaker 1: not occur on a movie set? But describe how you're

529
00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:35,800
Speaker 1: supposed to handle weapons.

530
00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:38,360
Speaker 7: Exactly, Nancy, You described it perfectly. That is exactly what

531
00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:40,480
Speaker 7: you should do. And if you're giving a weapon to

532
00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:43,640
Speaker 7: someone else, normally you have the chamber open so that

533
00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:46,800
Speaker 7: they can also see, and then you both check it

534
00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:50,080
Speaker 7: and know that it's empty or that the blanks.

535
00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:50,120
Speaker 10: Are in it.

536
00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:54,840
Speaker 1: Tell me what you can discern about what Karen Smith,

537
00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:57,520
Speaker 1: forensics expert, just told us about the injuries.

538
00:30:58,120 --> 00:30:59,720
Speaker 2: What happened, Nancy.

539
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:03,320
Speaker 7: Even though these are quote prop guns or blanks, they

540
00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:07,960
Speaker 7: can still obviously do devastating damage the wadding or whatever

541
00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:10,000
Speaker 7: they are filled with, even in a blank. But this

542
00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:12,680
Speaker 7: was not a blank. This was an actual projectile.

543
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:16,120
Speaker 2: And as we know, you mean a bullet speak English,

544
00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:17,560
Speaker 2: a bullet.

545
00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:21,800
Speaker 7: Yes, yes, this is a bullet. And the caliber of

546
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:24,360
Speaker 7: that bullet of the gun is what is going to

547
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:28,440
Speaker 7: determine how much damage is done. As she explained, the

548
00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:32,360
Speaker 7: higher the caliber, the more energy in that bullet, and

549
00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:34,880
Speaker 7: so the more damage done to the physical bodies. And

550
00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:38,440
Speaker 7: of course the location where that bullet enters the body

551
00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:41,000
Speaker 7: in this case was devastating.

552
00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:43,440
Speaker 2: You know, another issue to doctor Sherry Schwartz.

553
00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:45,880
Speaker 1: I've been on a lot of TV sets obviously and

554
00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:50,520
Speaker 1: movie sets for you know, cameos or some legal issue.

555
00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:54,640
Speaker 1: And I got to tell you, doctor Sherry Schwartz, a

556
00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:57,800
Speaker 1: movie set takes on a whole It's like you're in

557
00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:00,719
Speaker 1: a different world. Like when you go to the movies

558
00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:03,320
Speaker 1: and you sit down and it goes dark. Your mind

559
00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:07,080
Speaker 1: takes you there. When you're on a movie set. I've

560
00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:10,080
Speaker 1: never been on a single movie set that went on time.

561
00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:13,520
Speaker 1: You go till one or two o'clock in the morning,

562
00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:17,680
Speaker 1: it's pitch dark outside. You keep going until you get

563
00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:20,240
Speaker 1: the shot or you finish the scene, or whatever it's

564
00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:23,720
Speaker 1: called in movie world. I think that there is a

565
00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:28,920
Speaker 1: suspended fear you think you're at a movie set, like

566
00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:32,160
Speaker 1: when you go to Disneyland or when you're on vacation

567
00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:37,040
Speaker 1: on a cruise ship. You suspend your normal thinking it

568
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:40,600
Speaker 1: doesn't seem real and you're not thinking, wow, there's a

569
00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:44,120
Speaker 1: gun I could get shot because it's quote just a movie.

570
00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:45,840
Speaker 2: It's not real.

571
00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:51,040
Speaker 1: How do we let me just say, suspend our disbelief,

572
00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:55,239
Speaker 1: suspend rational rules of functioning.

573
00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:57,000
Speaker 2: When you're on a movie set or in a movie.

574
00:32:57,240 --> 00:32:59,240
Speaker 2: You know, like in a movie is where there's.

575
00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:02,240
Speaker 1: Some nut with a gun and you hear a sound,

576
00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:05,080
Speaker 1: but you don't think it's real because you're in a movie.

577
00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:08,320
Speaker 2: What happens in the human mind, doctor Sherry.

578
00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:12,920
Speaker 15: Well, when you don't think that something is actually real,

579
00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:19,760
Speaker 15: then you would not calculate accurately what the potential risks are, right,

580
00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:23,120
Speaker 15: and so there is this gun on the set, but

581
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:25,640
Speaker 15: everybody thinks, oh, it's just make believe. We're setting this

582
00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:29,440
Speaker 15: up to film it. Nobody's actually going to get hurt.

583
00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:34,240
Speaker 15: And so what happens mentally is that you underestimate what

584
00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:37,720
Speaker 15: the potential risks are. And what happened here is an

585
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:41,920
Speaker 15: egregious underestimation, right, So for the rest of us, it's

586
00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:42,680
Speaker 15: to make believes.

587
00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:44,200
Speaker 2: Maybe even for the actor.

588
00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:46,920
Speaker 15: They know that they're just playing a role, and everybody

589
00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:49,120
Speaker 15: around them might know they're playing a role. But there

590
00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:52,560
Speaker 15: are people on the set who are responsible for that

591
00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:56,480
Speaker 15: gun and for taking that proper care and knowing what

592
00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:57,719
Speaker 15: the potential risks are.

593
00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:01,280
Speaker 1: Hey, do you, Alexis Tresha Crime Online Common investigative reporter,

594
00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:05,160
Speaker 1: you have heard Dominic Romano. Paul's like, well, everyone on

595
00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:08,600
Speaker 1: the panel weighing in. But apparently there were a lot

596
00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:12,200
Speaker 1: of problems and a lot of disgruntled crew members.

597
00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:13,600
Speaker 2: I understand that.

598
00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:16,120
Speaker 1: One of the motels they had set them up to

599
00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:20,239
Speaker 1: stay overnight was at a place for the homeless, and

600
00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:24,080
Speaker 1: there were drug addicts there.

601
00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:25,600
Speaker 2: They were afraid to stay there.

602
00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:28,680
Speaker 6: What was going on on the set, Well, it seems

603
00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:30,360
Speaker 6: like what they were trying to do was make this

604
00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:35,080
Speaker 6: film as cheaply as possible, understandable, but they were putting

605
00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:37,760
Speaker 6: people's lives at risk. It was fifty hotels were fifty

606
00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:41,359
Speaker 6: miles away, so after working fourteen hour days, the crew

607
00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:43,840
Speaker 6: was having to drive over an hour to get to

608
00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:46,040
Speaker 6: their hotel. Then they would have to be back within

609
00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:48,440
Speaker 6: like six hours, so they would get almost no sleep

610
00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:50,800
Speaker 6: at all. They were also saying that things were just

611
00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:54,879
Speaker 6: not safe. There had been an incident a few days

612
00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:58,160
Speaker 6: earlier that one of the prop gun again prop done

613
00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:01,080
Speaker 6: real gun had been act dentally fired.

614
00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:02,319
Speaker 7: And so the crew have.

615
00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:05,080
Speaker 6: Been complaining to the producer saying this is not a

616
00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:09,719
Speaker 6: safe working environment, and they walked off the set. And

617
00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:15,320
Speaker 6: so Hollywood is very much a union business, but the

618
00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:19,400
Speaker 6: producers hired non union people to replace them. These non

619
00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:22,200
Speaker 6: union people, though, are not the people. That's not the armor,

620
00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:25,040
Speaker 6: and it's not the assistant director. And everybody's been talking

621
00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:29,279
Speaker 6: there at the line of protocol. You have so many

622
00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:31,759
Speaker 6: steps in the line of defense, so that when this

623
00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:35,760
Speaker 6: gun got to Alex Baldwin, at least two other people

624
00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:39,280
Speaker 6: were responsible for saying that it wasn't loaded.

625
00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:41,960
Speaker 2: I mean, didn't somebody even scream.

626
00:35:41,719 --> 00:35:45,600
Speaker 1: Out cold gun? I mean they have to yell it out,

627
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:48,080
Speaker 1: you know what you were just saying. I know so

628
00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:52,239
Speaker 1: many times for different shoots. I don't know who he

629
00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:55,759
Speaker 1: is that carries it comes iver and they have to

630
00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:58,480
Speaker 1: do it a certain way, they have to say a

631
00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:02,200
Speaker 1: certain thing, and they say it really loudly. I don't

632
00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:04,120
Speaker 1: know why, but I'm sure there's a reason for it,

633
00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:08,840
Speaker 1: just like they would yell out cold gun and everybody

634
00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:10,719
Speaker 1: would hear it. But I guess they yelled it out

635
00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:12,160
Speaker 1: without checking Alexis.

636
00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:15,160
Speaker 6: And there are reports that yes. So there were three

637
00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:17,520
Speaker 6: guns that were set up and they were put on

638
00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:19,839
Speaker 6: a table outside the church set.

639
00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:21,320
Speaker 2: And this is because of COVID.

640
00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:23,880
Speaker 6: Nineteen protocols, so not a lot of people are in

641
00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:27,640
Speaker 6: the if it's an inclosed set, they're not there three guns.

642
00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:31,040
Speaker 6: So the assistant director picked it up. Is Dave Halls,

643
00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:33,200
Speaker 6: as the other guest said, you know, has a history

644
00:36:33,239 --> 00:36:36,640
Speaker 6: of a lot of accidents on sets, and handed it

645
00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:38,799
Speaker 6: to Bodmin and he is the one that yelled out

646
00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:42,520
Speaker 6: cold gun. There's no nobody has said there's so many

647
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:45,600
Speaker 6: people have spoken to the police on the set, so

648
00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:48,760
Speaker 6: many of the other crew members, and they said they

649
00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:52,880
Speaker 6: didn't know whether it actually was empty or not. And

650
00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:55,279
Speaker 6: these guns were used at lunch. This is a post

651
00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:57,680
Speaker 6: lunch break, so they broke for lunch at twelve thirty.

652
00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:00,720
Speaker 6: They come back after lunch that lunchtime.

653
00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:02,120
Speaker 11: There are reports that those.

654
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:05,400
Speaker 6: Crew members were using this gun and other guns to

655
00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:09,439
Speaker 6: shoot beer bottles out in the desert area and using

656
00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:11,800
Speaker 6: it as target practice. So there could have been alive

657
00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:14,920
Speaker 6: and there said there were lots of live ammunition. Nobody

658
00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:18,319
Speaker 6: was told they couldn't bring live ammunition on set. That's

659
00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:19,600
Speaker 6: another thing that do.

660
00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:21,160
Speaker 2: You need live around on set?

661
00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:23,920
Speaker 6: That's a big problem here. And I think I've seen.

662
00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:28,440
Speaker 10: I'd like to jump in there. It's it's it's simply

663
00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:31,600
Speaker 10: a breakdown of the security of the scene. The only

664
00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:35,080
Speaker 10: people there that our arms should be security personnel. And

665
00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:38,640
Speaker 10: you know, in my years, my decade of fighting to

666
00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:44,000
Speaker 10: keep workplaces safe and to stop stalking offenders from killing victims,

667
00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:47,240
Speaker 10: I can tell you one thing, and that is nobody

668
00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:50,719
Speaker 10: thinks the unthinkable is going to happen. It's a matter

669
00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:53,720
Speaker 10: of just human thinking. They think that, well, that happened

670
00:37:53,719 --> 00:37:56,200
Speaker 10: to somebody else, that didn't happen to me. And because

671
00:37:56,520 --> 00:37:59,279
Speaker 10: this is somewhat of a rare occurrence on a set.

672
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:02,840
Speaker 10: People got laxed, they got lack a days hole about

673
00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:07,400
Speaker 10: fundamental when it comes to shooting a scene such as this,

674
00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:10,840
Speaker 10: And just like at any workplace, this is a workplace

675
00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:12,520
Speaker 10: out in the middle of the desert, just like it

676
00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:16,480
Speaker 10: would be in an office building. Those protocols broke down,

677
00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:20,000
Speaker 10: and people at work, attempting to do the right thing

678
00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:24,040
Speaker 10: for the right reasons, had a catastrophic, devastating thing happen.

679
00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:28,360
Speaker 10: Because we as human beings think well, if it hasn't happened,

680
00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:30,719
Speaker 10: it won't happen. And that's just not the reality of

681
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:32,280
Speaker 10: life when it comes to dangerous events.

682
00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:37,640
Speaker 1: You know, Alec Baldwin is a great, great actor. A

683
00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:40,480
Speaker 1: lot of people don't like him because he rubs him

684
00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:44,080
Speaker 1: the wrong way with his jokes, with his actions, with

685
00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:52,920
Speaker 1: just a history of comments and behavior that irritates some people.

686
00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:56,000
Speaker 1: But I can tell you this, when I saw the

687
00:38:56,040 --> 00:39:00,120
Speaker 1: photos of him literally doubled over in Greek.

688
00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:04,239
Speaker 2: I don't think that was acting. I think that was real.

689
00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:10,360
Speaker 2: Who bears the fault of the death of a beautiful

690
00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:15,680
Speaker 2: young woman? We wait as justice and false Goodbye friend,