1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,840 Speaker 1: Ba Fam, we have another how to throw back for you, 2 00:00:03,960 --> 00:00:06,640 Speaker 1: of course we do all month. We're looking back at 3 00:00:06,640 --> 00:00:10,799 Speaker 1: some of our favorite episodes from days past for memorable 4 00:00:10,800 --> 00:00:13,800 Speaker 1: guests who unforgettable moments. There's still so much to learn 5 00:00:13,880 --> 00:00:17,000 Speaker 1: from the be Avault. Take a listen, will. 6 00:00:16,840 --> 00:00:25,720 Speaker 2: You, hey Va Fam, I can't tell you how excited 7 00:00:25,760 --> 00:00:29,120 Speaker 2: I am to introduce today's for this week's guest, she 8 00:00:29,360 --> 00:00:32,000 Speaker 2: is someone who I feel like I just don't know. 9 00:00:32,040 --> 00:00:34,320 Speaker 2: I'm embarrassed to say that I wasn't familiar with her 10 00:00:34,320 --> 00:00:36,960 Speaker 2: work until more recently. But when I tell you I 11 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:39,560 Speaker 2: am now a super fan, I am now a super fan. 12 00:00:39,640 --> 00:00:42,600 Speaker 2: Her name is Menda Hearts Minda is a workplace and 13 00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:45,800 Speaker 2: equity consultant. She's also a best selling and award winning 14 00:00:45,800 --> 00:00:49,480 Speaker 2: author of books like The Memo and Write Within, which 15 00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:54,520 Speaker 2: both have become just Trevor treasure troves of insights and 16 00:00:54,600 --> 00:00:58,360 Speaker 2: strategies and real world tips for women of color struggling 17 00:00:58,400 --> 00:01:00,480 Speaker 2: to find their place in the modern day work. So 18 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:03,000 Speaker 2: you've got to check out Menda's books. However, she's also 19 00:01:03,040 --> 00:01:04,800 Speaker 2: got a brand new book coming out as well that 20 00:01:04,840 --> 00:01:06,640 Speaker 2: we're going to talk about, called You Are More Than 21 00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:10,200 Speaker 2: Magic for young adults, and that's going to be released 22 00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:12,160 Speaker 2: the spring. I think, like, right now it's out. You 23 00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:14,480 Speaker 2: can go buy it right now. You are more than magic. 24 00:01:14,880 --> 00:01:17,840 Speaker 2: Menda is also a professor at NYU Wagner. She has 25 00:01:17,880 --> 00:01:20,920 Speaker 2: a frequent guest on MSNBC, and she's been featured all 26 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:24,399 Speaker 2: over the place from ABC to Fast Company, Time Magazine. 27 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:29,760 Speaker 2: She's a sought after speaker for companies like Liberty, Mutual, Nike, Google, 28 00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:32,280 Speaker 2: You know, no big deal. She's out there, and in 29 00:01:32,319 --> 00:01:35,840 Speaker 2: twenty twenty, she was named the top voice for equity 30 00:01:35,880 --> 00:01:38,759 Speaker 2: in the workplace by LinkedIn. You can also check out 31 00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:43,399 Speaker 2: Menda's podcast called Secure the Seat. She is our podcast sister. Yeah, 32 00:01:43,480 --> 00:01:45,760 Speaker 2: so definitely head over to menda hearts dot com and 33 00:01:45,880 --> 00:01:48,040 Speaker 2: check out all of her incredible work. After the show, 34 00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:50,560 Speaker 2: check the show notes. We'll have links to all of 35 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:53,760 Speaker 2: her amazing content where you can find her books. But 36 00:01:53,840 --> 00:01:56,080 Speaker 2: for right now, Menda is joining us on Brown Ambition 37 00:01:56,280 --> 00:01:57,400 Speaker 2: minda welcome. 38 00:01:57,880 --> 00:01:59,800 Speaker 3: Thank you, Thank you so much for having me. Big 39 00:01:59,800 --> 00:02:02,120 Speaker 3: fans of you and Tiffany, thank you for the work 40 00:02:02,160 --> 00:02:02,560 Speaker 3: that you do. 41 00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:05,560 Speaker 2: Oh likewise, how long have you been in this space 42 00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:07,160 Speaker 2: and why haven't I heard of you? This is my 43 00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:09,760 Speaker 2: I know it's my fault, but I want to know 44 00:02:09,919 --> 00:02:12,360 Speaker 2: all about how I know people who are usually in 45 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:14,520 Speaker 2: your space have fascinating stories, and I want to hear 46 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:17,480 Speaker 2: sort of like your origin story of how you became 47 00:02:17,880 --> 00:02:20,560 Speaker 2: someone who is now getting hired by the likes of 48 00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:23,160 Speaker 2: Google and Nike to hopefully come in and help them 49 00:02:23,240 --> 00:02:28,760 Speaker 2: fix and better retain and develop and grow women of 50 00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:29,760 Speaker 2: color talent. 51 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:34,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, well, well, thank you for highlighting my work, because, 52 00:02:34,160 --> 00:02:37,040 Speaker 3: like you said, everybody may not have read the memo, 53 00:02:37,080 --> 00:02:39,800 Speaker 3: they may not know it right, and sometimes as black 54 00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:43,359 Speaker 3: women and brown women are were erased in different spaces. 55 00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:46,519 Speaker 3: So it's podcasts like yours, it's us amplifying each other 56 00:02:46,600 --> 00:02:48,560 Speaker 3: so that people know that this work exists, so we 57 00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:51,680 Speaker 3: don't have to suffer in silence. But it really the 58 00:02:51,760 --> 00:02:55,040 Speaker 3: work that I started doing. I started back in twenty 59 00:02:55,080 --> 00:02:58,480 Speaker 3: fifteen when it wasn't as popular to talk about, you know, 60 00:02:58,680 --> 00:03:02,080 Speaker 3: how black women and brown women we're experiencing the workplace. 61 00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:05,120 Speaker 3: And it was shortly after I had read Cheryl Sandberg's 62 00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:07,720 Speaker 3: book Lean In that I thought, wow, you know, there's 63 00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:09,920 Speaker 3: some great advice in this book, but it's not talking 64 00:03:09,960 --> 00:03:13,320 Speaker 3: to me. It's not talking about the experiences that I'm having, 65 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:16,400 Speaker 3: and so I really just thought about, well, what about 66 00:03:16,440 --> 00:03:18,720 Speaker 3: women in the workplace and why aren't we talking about 67 00:03:18,760 --> 00:03:20,840 Speaker 3: all women? Why are we just talking about women in 68 00:03:20,919 --> 00:03:24,280 Speaker 3: dominant majority? And so I really just set out to say, 69 00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:27,240 Speaker 3: let me start creating content around some of the pain 70 00:03:27,280 --> 00:03:30,640 Speaker 3: points that we experience. And I started doing that by 71 00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:35,400 Speaker 3: a blog in twenty fifteen, and then eventually started doing 72 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:38,520 Speaker 3: these career boot camps in New York City around black 73 00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:41,440 Speaker 3: and brown women how to negotiate stuff like that, and 74 00:03:41,480 --> 00:03:44,840 Speaker 3: then eventually the books came. But it really my origin 75 00:03:44,920 --> 00:03:49,640 Speaker 3: story was sitting in my car Mandy crying after fifteen 76 00:03:49,720 --> 00:03:52,320 Speaker 3: years of being in corporate America and saying, is this 77 00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:55,080 Speaker 3: what my life is like? Is this what I have 78 00:03:55,160 --> 00:03:57,680 Speaker 3: to do to survive in the workplace? And I wanted 79 00:03:57,720 --> 00:03:59,600 Speaker 3: to make the workplace better than I found it. And 80 00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:01,800 Speaker 3: that's exactly what I've been trying to do. 81 00:04:02,280 --> 00:04:04,680 Speaker 2: Wow. Yeah, So I mean twenty fifteen that's when we 82 00:04:04,760 --> 00:04:07,000 Speaker 2: launched Brown Ambition, And I love the idea that we 83 00:04:07,000 --> 00:04:09,920 Speaker 2: were like and obviously Tipicans I hear, but she's always 84 00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:11,880 Speaker 2: here in spirit. Yeah. I love the idea that that 85 00:04:11,960 --> 00:04:14,520 Speaker 2: the memo was taking off and Broad Ambition was taking off, 86 00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:17,080 Speaker 2: and you know what's incredible. I know you mentioned until 87 00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:19,599 Speaker 2: more recently maybe it wasn't as popular to talk about 88 00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:21,800 Speaker 2: being black women and women of color in corporate America. 89 00:04:21,960 --> 00:04:25,279 Speaker 2: But I've never been so proud of the work that 90 00:04:25,320 --> 00:04:28,119 Speaker 2: we did back when in twenty fifteen, when it wasn't 91 00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:31,120 Speaker 2: you know, as popular, when the all the media attention 92 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:33,440 Speaker 2: wasn't there and we weren't on all the lists and stuff, 93 00:04:33,839 --> 00:04:36,880 Speaker 2: because it was like we set the groundwork and planted 94 00:04:36,880 --> 00:04:39,920 Speaker 2: those seeds. Tiffany always uses that analogy of planting seeds 95 00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:45,200 Speaker 2: so that when like, I feel like your phone must 96 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:48,320 Speaker 2: have been ringing off the proverbial hook, you know, after 97 00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:50,520 Speaker 2: the summer of twenty twenty, it seems like a lot 98 00:04:50,520 --> 00:04:52,960 Speaker 2: of because there's so few of us. It's like, okay, 99 00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:55,159 Speaker 2: who's a person of color and who can talk about 100 00:04:55,160 --> 00:04:58,680 Speaker 2: the workplace and about women and okay, men to heart's done, 101 00:04:58,960 --> 00:05:01,440 Speaker 2: you know what I mean? And like who's podcasting about it? 102 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:04,400 Speaker 2: Brian Ambishon and like two other people, right, So I 103 00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:07,320 Speaker 2: mean it must feel How does that feel? How does 104 00:05:07,320 --> 00:05:10,880 Speaker 2: it feel to now have like all this attention and 105 00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:13,920 Speaker 2: do you feel like, okay, like I've laid the groummar 106 00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:17,039 Speaker 2: for this. I'm ready for this moment to capitalize, for 107 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:20,280 Speaker 2: lack of a better word, on this newfound interest. 108 00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:23,400 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's you know, Mandy, it's bittersweet, right. 109 00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:28,120 Speaker 3: And my life did change a lot after the unfortunate 110 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:31,560 Speaker 3: death of George Floyd, because to your point, when companies 111 00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:33,040 Speaker 3: were starting to scramble and like. 112 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:34,800 Speaker 4: What are we going to do? They're like, who's out 113 00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:35,600 Speaker 4: there doing this? 114 00:05:35,839 --> 00:05:39,680 Speaker 3: Right? And when the old saying is if you stay ready, 115 00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:41,880 Speaker 3: you don't have to get ready. I was already doing 116 00:05:42,080 --> 00:05:44,279 Speaker 3: this work, and it was I had the memo had 117 00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:49,440 Speaker 3: came out six or months or eight months before George Floyd, 118 00:05:49,520 --> 00:05:51,520 Speaker 3: somewhere around that time period, and so it was just 119 00:05:52,240 --> 00:05:56,279 Speaker 3: like the perfect culmination of Yes, I've been talking about this, 120 00:05:56,360 --> 00:05:57,560 Speaker 3: and let's dig in more. 121 00:05:57,640 --> 00:06:00,520 Speaker 4: Now let's move to some demonstration and not just talk. 122 00:06:00,560 --> 00:06:02,359 Speaker 4: And so things change, you know. 123 00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:05,320 Speaker 3: I remember coming off the road in February of twenty 124 00:06:05,440 --> 00:06:07,840 Speaker 3: twenty doing my last in person speaking engagement, and I 125 00:06:07,839 --> 00:06:09,600 Speaker 3: didn't know what life was going to be like once 126 00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:11,960 Speaker 3: COVID had kind of shut things down. I was living 127 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:15,360 Speaker 3: in New York City and then all of a sudden 128 00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:18,200 Speaker 3: things were a little slow, and then just the calls 129 00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:22,359 Speaker 3: were coming, and I've been you know, busy ever since 130 00:06:22,760 --> 00:06:25,440 Speaker 3: in a way. But what I'm happy about is we 131 00:06:25,480 --> 00:06:27,800 Speaker 3: finally get to center black and brown women in the 132 00:06:27,839 --> 00:06:30,159 Speaker 3: career narrative the way that it should have been centered 133 00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:32,320 Speaker 3: all along. Right, So, now that I do have the 134 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:35,840 Speaker 3: microphone in many spaces, I make no apologies for it 135 00:06:35,880 --> 00:06:38,000 Speaker 3: because I'm like, this is what needs to be said, 136 00:06:38,080 --> 00:06:39,359 Speaker 3: this is what we're going to do. And if there 137 00:06:39,400 --> 00:06:42,440 Speaker 3: are women who haven't yet found their voices in the workplace, 138 00:06:42,520 --> 00:06:45,720 Speaker 3: I hope that our stories will inspire them to activate 139 00:06:45,760 --> 00:06:48,000 Speaker 3: their voice. Because we all have a voice, we just 140 00:06:48,040 --> 00:06:49,920 Speaker 3: have to decide how we want to use it. 141 00:06:49,920 --> 00:06:52,560 Speaker 2: It's such crazy timing and like serendipitous timing that your 142 00:06:52,600 --> 00:06:55,840 Speaker 2: book had come out right before the pandemic and the 143 00:06:55,920 --> 00:06:57,800 Speaker 2: murders of George, Floyd Brown and Taylor and the list 144 00:06:57,839 --> 00:07:02,400 Speaker 2: goes on tragically. Talk to me about your book, I mean, 145 00:07:02,520 --> 00:07:05,040 Speaker 2: having come out before the pandemic, was is there anything 146 00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:06,760 Speaker 2: you would have written differently or if you could add 147 00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:09,840 Speaker 2: a chapter today, what would you imagine adding to the 148 00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:12,280 Speaker 2: book now, having now come on the other side of 149 00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:13,040 Speaker 2: this pandemic. 150 00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:18,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, it's interesting because before the George Floyd murder. 151 00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:20,120 Speaker 3: Companies would they'd be like, well, what are you going 152 00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:22,560 Speaker 3: to say first? You know, give me a script, like 153 00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:25,559 Speaker 3: we you know, racism doesn't exist here, our black women 154 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:28,960 Speaker 3: are thriving. They never tell us anything. Differently, I'm like, okay, 155 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:31,400 Speaker 3: but do they feel safe enough to tell you how 156 00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:34,240 Speaker 3: they're really feeling. That's a different question, just because they 157 00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:36,960 Speaker 3: haven't said anything. And so for me, it was very 158 00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:39,000 Speaker 3: much kind of this push and pull. And then once 159 00:07:39,040 --> 00:07:42,680 Speaker 3: that situation happened in twenty twenty, then companies who were 160 00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:45,440 Speaker 3: like fraid to have a conversation or buy the books 161 00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:47,920 Speaker 3: for their ergs were like, wait, come on in, come 162 00:07:47,960 --> 00:07:50,160 Speaker 3: talk about it, talk about it at its full extent. 163 00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:53,320 Speaker 3: And so I was like, okay, now that you're ready 164 00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:55,320 Speaker 3: to talk about it, we all should be ready to 165 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:57,520 Speaker 3: talk about it too, right, And it was just this 166 00:07:57,600 --> 00:08:01,480 Speaker 3: weird kind of juxtaposition. And so for me, it was 167 00:08:01,520 --> 00:08:04,000 Speaker 3: again saying, what is the main thing? Has always been 168 00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:07,400 Speaker 3: the main thing centering black and brown women in the workplace, 169 00:08:07,400 --> 00:08:10,480 Speaker 3: And so I just doubled down even more on the 170 00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:14,960 Speaker 3: content and it actually allowed me to write two more books. 171 00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:17,720 Speaker 3: I wrote Write Within and You Are More Than Magic, 172 00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:21,200 Speaker 3: during twenty twenty and then they came out in twenty 173 00:08:21,280 --> 00:08:24,600 Speaker 3: twenty one, in twenty twenty two, But those were an 174 00:08:24,640 --> 00:08:27,360 Speaker 3: extension of the memo because I thought about, Okay, what 175 00:08:27,440 --> 00:08:29,760 Speaker 3: are the roles rules to engagement? 176 00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:30,000 Speaker 1: Right? 177 00:08:30,040 --> 00:08:32,679 Speaker 3: What are the office politics? How do you build your network? 178 00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:35,160 Speaker 3: All of the different things. You're not going crazy. I 179 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:38,439 Speaker 3: want the memo to affirm you. But really the extension 180 00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:42,319 Speaker 3: of the memo was within to say, you've been exposed 181 00:08:42,320 --> 00:08:45,760 Speaker 3: to all of these racial experiences. You may not understand 182 00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:47,959 Speaker 3: how much it's harmed you, but you can be free 183 00:08:47,960 --> 00:08:49,719 Speaker 3: of that right because we want you to be your 184 00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:51,480 Speaker 3: healthiest life. You're not going to be able to be 185 00:08:51,559 --> 00:08:54,760 Speaker 3: authentic and do the office politics if you haven't actually 186 00:08:55,040 --> 00:08:58,000 Speaker 3: tapped into what's going on and how you're feeling about 187 00:08:58,000 --> 00:08:59,240 Speaker 3: the environments that you're in. 188 00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:01,240 Speaker 4: That's part of what you can control. 189 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:04,480 Speaker 3: And so for me, I often thought about the memo 190 00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:06,000 Speaker 3: what I'd add, But I'm like, you know what the 191 00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:09,240 Speaker 3: extra chapter is right within the act secure chapter is 192 00:09:09,280 --> 00:09:10,280 Speaker 3: you were more than magic? 193 00:09:11,120 --> 00:09:13,520 Speaker 2: Okay. I didn't realize the right within came out after 194 00:09:13,800 --> 00:09:15,439 Speaker 2: the memo, So you just like, don't sleep. 195 00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:19,240 Speaker 3: I guess there's a little bags under my eyes. 196 00:09:20,520 --> 00:09:23,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that's still like two books in two years, 197 00:09:23,160 --> 00:09:25,880 Speaker 2: my goodness. So okay, talk about the right within? So 198 00:09:25,920 --> 00:09:28,960 Speaker 2: what's the take on that? Is that more, here's actual 199 00:09:29,120 --> 00:09:33,600 Speaker 2: actionable strategies on sort of like how to survive. You know, 200 00:09:33,679 --> 00:09:36,000 Speaker 2: now that we kind of all know what the issues are, now, 201 00:09:36,040 --> 00:09:38,840 Speaker 2: here's how to survive and thrive right within. 202 00:09:39,240 --> 00:09:41,839 Speaker 3: I took it from Lauren Hill's how You're Gonna win 203 00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:44,520 Speaker 3: if you ain't right within? And I thought about, what 204 00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:47,360 Speaker 3: are the things that So for example, when I was 205 00:09:47,400 --> 00:09:49,800 Speaker 3: in my former life, I spent fifteen years in my 206 00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:51,960 Speaker 3: industry and there wasn't a day I didn't go to 207 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:54,440 Speaker 3: work while I wasn't racially aggressed in some way, shape 208 00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:57,080 Speaker 3: or form, macro or micro. But I had started to 209 00:09:57,160 --> 00:10:00,640 Speaker 3: normalize the behavior, right, So when someone would say, oh, 210 00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:02,640 Speaker 3: the black girl or this or that, any kind of 211 00:10:02,679 --> 00:10:05,480 Speaker 3: derogatory type of experiences, I'd be like, Oh, I guess 212 00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:08,160 Speaker 3: that's just Scott being Scott today, right, So I just 213 00:10:08,240 --> 00:10:10,520 Speaker 3: learned to sweep it under the rug. And I didn't 214 00:10:10,520 --> 00:10:13,840 Speaker 3: realize how damaging that was to me in my life, 215 00:10:13,920 --> 00:10:16,280 Speaker 3: how I saw myself, my worth. And then you think 216 00:10:16,320 --> 00:10:18,080 Speaker 3: about the people you go home to or that you 217 00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:20,560 Speaker 3: engage with that love you. They're not getting the most 218 00:10:20,600 --> 00:10:23,760 Speaker 3: healthiest pieces of you yourself, because you've been in this 219 00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:26,920 Speaker 3: harm this fight or flight survival mode. And I really 220 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:29,520 Speaker 3: wanted black and brown women to think about what freedom 221 00:10:29,600 --> 00:10:32,920 Speaker 3: looks like, freedom from being the angry black woman, the 222 00:10:32,920 --> 00:10:37,480 Speaker 3: feisty latina, the docile agent, like we can't control being free, 223 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:41,200 Speaker 3: no longer confined by those things, and so right within 224 00:10:41,400 --> 00:10:44,960 Speaker 3: was the inner work. And I talked about how I 225 00:10:45,080 --> 00:10:47,720 Speaker 3: had experienced so much racial aggression in the workplace that 226 00:10:47,760 --> 00:10:51,400 Speaker 3: I started to get panic attacks and depression, and how 227 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:55,559 Speaker 3: I sought to find healing. I invite women to heal 228 00:10:55,800 --> 00:10:59,040 Speaker 3: from those experiences so we don't take them with us. 229 00:10:59,440 --> 00:10:59,640 Speaker 4: Yeah. 230 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:04,480 Speaker 2: I think the hardest thing about the twenty twenty, just 231 00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:07,240 Speaker 2: twenty twenty in general, and the pandemic and everything was 232 00:11:07,880 --> 00:11:10,760 Speaker 2: not was sort of having to confront all of that 233 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:13,800 Speaker 2: and to acknowledge sort of what you had been through. 234 00:11:13,840 --> 00:11:18,360 Speaker 2: And I mean, your experience sounds truly horrendous. I felt 235 00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:20,440 Speaker 2: like I had the fortune of working at companies that 236 00:11:20,480 --> 00:11:23,360 Speaker 2: were a little bit better than most. It seems like 237 00:11:23,440 --> 00:11:27,760 Speaker 2: at at least not you know, egregiously, it wasn't like 238 00:11:27,800 --> 00:11:30,720 Speaker 2: a lot of egregious racism. But then even for me, 239 00:11:30,760 --> 00:11:32,880 Speaker 2: I think there's like the reflection time and what did 240 00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:35,719 Speaker 2: you go through and kind of acknowledging it that can 241 00:11:35,720 --> 00:11:38,880 Speaker 2: be really painful and that can make you, like you 242 00:11:38,960 --> 00:11:41,960 Speaker 2: mentioned earlier, these companies now want us, Oh, we're gonna 243 00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:44,040 Speaker 2: we want to hear about it. Now, talk to us. 244 00:11:44,080 --> 00:11:47,280 Speaker 2: We're ready to acknowledge it. But for me, it's like, 245 00:11:47,320 --> 00:11:49,679 Speaker 2: but are we are we ready to talk about it 246 00:11:49,720 --> 00:11:50,240 Speaker 2: black women? 247 00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:50,520 Speaker 4: You know? 248 00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:52,320 Speaker 2: And do we have to do it on your time? 249 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:53,040 Speaker 4: Yeah? 250 00:11:53,160 --> 00:11:58,480 Speaker 2: That part you're ready, But like, this is traumatic and 251 00:11:58,679 --> 00:12:01,320 Speaker 2: painful and not in ancess necessarily something that even we've 252 00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:05,800 Speaker 2: confronted internally, you know. So for those of us who've 253 00:12:05,800 --> 00:12:07,760 Speaker 2: maybe and it's been you know, I'm not saying that 254 00:12:07,800 --> 00:12:11,400 Speaker 2: everyone had those points of reflection and came to their 255 00:12:11,480 --> 00:12:14,360 Speaker 2: aha moment in twenty twenty. Maybe you've been working on 256 00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:16,040 Speaker 2: it since then, but it's been a couple of years. 257 00:12:16,040 --> 00:12:18,240 Speaker 2: So I mean, what kind of advice do you have 258 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:21,079 Speaker 2: for those of us who now have acknowledged it and 259 00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:23,520 Speaker 2: it may feel like we want to start healing. What 260 00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:25,480 Speaker 2: can work? What can help? 261 00:12:26,200 --> 00:12:28,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, one of the things that I hear 262 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:30,400 Speaker 3: from a lot of readers or write within is that 263 00:12:30,720 --> 00:12:33,080 Speaker 3: they didn't even realize they needed to heal because they 264 00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:36,040 Speaker 3: had normalized all of the experiences be it. You know, 265 00:12:36,880 --> 00:12:38,719 Speaker 3: we've all been to the doctor and the doctor will say, 266 00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:40,599 Speaker 3: where's your pain point? Is it a ten or is 267 00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:43,440 Speaker 3: it a one? You know, and we all have those experiences, 268 00:12:43,440 --> 00:12:46,440 Speaker 3: But if you only have experienced a three in the workplace, 269 00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:50,800 Speaker 3: those threes add up, and it's painful, right being mistaken 270 00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:53,920 Speaker 3: for the other black women every day, or someone not 271 00:12:53,960 --> 00:12:56,199 Speaker 3: giving you an opportunity to use your voice, or being 272 00:12:56,559 --> 00:12:59,560 Speaker 3: overlooked for the promotion, all of that is painful, and 273 00:12:59,600 --> 00:13:03,040 Speaker 3: we often and know the reasons why it's that way, right, 274 00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:05,280 Speaker 3: But what do we tell ourselves? You know, just work hard, 275 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:07,040 Speaker 3: just keep your head down. This is what it's like 276 00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:09,200 Speaker 3: for black and brown women in the workplace. But we 277 00:13:09,280 --> 00:13:13,640 Speaker 3: don't have to pass on those old tools of survival anymore, right. 278 00:13:14,040 --> 00:13:16,320 Speaker 3: We want the next generation and our current generations to 279 00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:18,959 Speaker 3: have the tools they need to thrive and not just survive. 280 00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:21,640 Speaker 3: But we first have to acknowledge that harm has been caused. 281 00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:24,160 Speaker 3: And so one of the things that right within is 282 00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:26,400 Speaker 3: a little bit different than the memo is that I 283 00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:29,320 Speaker 3: provide a lot of different frameworks for when you're One 284 00:13:29,320 --> 00:13:32,360 Speaker 3: thing I call Mandy healing while in hell, because not 285 00:13:32,440 --> 00:13:35,199 Speaker 3: all of us are able to leave where we are 286 00:13:35,320 --> 00:13:38,240 Speaker 3: right now. We can't just quit, But how do we 287 00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:41,000 Speaker 3: still focus on the things that we can control? 288 00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:41,439 Speaker 4: Right? 289 00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:44,960 Speaker 3: But first of all, the number one point is acknowledgement. 290 00:13:45,400 --> 00:13:48,120 Speaker 3: You can't heal from what you're not willing to confront. 291 00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:50,480 Speaker 3: And I think for some of us, we never even 292 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:53,520 Speaker 3: called it racism because it was never even safe to 293 00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:56,160 Speaker 3: call it that in the workplace, right even to utter 294 00:13:56,480 --> 00:13:57,600 Speaker 3: that something was racist. 295 00:13:57,679 --> 00:13:58,760 Speaker 4: Up until two years ago. 296 00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:02,160 Speaker 3: We you know, it's dominant culture in the workplace will say, 297 00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:04,520 Speaker 3: don't play the race card, don't make it about race. 298 00:14:04,559 --> 00:14:06,760 Speaker 3: And then after George Floyd, let's make. 299 00:14:06,640 --> 00:14:08,400 Speaker 4: It about race. Let's talk about all the things. 300 00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:11,480 Speaker 3: So it's these weird things, and as you know, black 301 00:14:11,520 --> 00:14:14,240 Speaker 3: and brown people, people of color, we just it's a 302 00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:17,719 Speaker 3: very jarring to be in this situation. We're trying to 303 00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:19,480 Speaker 3: figure out what all this means for us. And so 304 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:22,320 Speaker 3: right within is that soft place for black and brown 305 00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:24,840 Speaker 3: women to land. We just need that space to be 306 00:14:24,880 --> 00:14:26,840 Speaker 3: able to land, to be able to be thoughtful I 307 00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:29,320 Speaker 3: even talk about therapy and how that was a very 308 00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:32,160 Speaker 3: big part of my healing and still part of my maintenance. 309 00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:34,160 Speaker 2: Okay, ba fan, We're going to take a quick break 310 00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:36,520 Speaker 2: and be back with more of my conversation with the 311 00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:41,560 Speaker 2: incredible men to Hearts. All right, we are back. Here's 312 00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:44,360 Speaker 2: more of my conversation with Menda Hearts. So you talk 313 00:14:44,400 --> 00:14:47,000 Speaker 2: about therapy, and I think one of the things that 314 00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:50,200 Speaker 2: is important in healing too, of course, is talking to 315 00:14:50,320 --> 00:14:53,640 Speaker 2: experts and finding the right therapist, and that's also a 316 00:14:53,720 --> 00:14:54,960 Speaker 2: journey in and of itself. 317 00:14:55,120 --> 00:14:55,280 Speaker 4: You know. 318 00:14:55,320 --> 00:14:57,280 Speaker 2: One of the things that I found was I didn't 319 00:14:57,280 --> 00:15:00,520 Speaker 2: realize I had kind of reached my patience limit for 320 00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:03,760 Speaker 2: talking about race issues at work and women and how 321 00:15:03,880 --> 00:15:07,080 Speaker 2: companies could how my company in particular could be doing better, 322 00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:09,320 Speaker 2: because I had been talking about it and I was 323 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:11,880 Speaker 2: like kind of like resentful about it when it was 324 00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:13,400 Speaker 2: a summer of twenty twenty and I was like, you 325 00:15:13,400 --> 00:15:15,520 Speaker 2: know what, y'all deal with this, And then within the 326 00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:17,960 Speaker 2: next eight months, I was gone. But for women who 327 00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:20,840 Speaker 2: are at work and maybe they've got some energy or 328 00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:24,080 Speaker 2: they feel like, Okay, maybe I'm ready to talk about it, 329 00:15:24,760 --> 00:15:27,680 Speaker 2: how do we make it? How do we protect ourselves, 330 00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:31,440 Speaker 2: you know, if you want to spend time, whether it's 331 00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:34,480 Speaker 2: you know, doing the town halls or talking to your 332 00:15:34,480 --> 00:15:37,080 Speaker 2: managers or trying to make things better, like you said, 333 00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:40,560 Speaker 2: for the generation to come in the workplace, how do 334 00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:43,840 Speaker 2: we protect ourselves in the workplace? And even if we're 335 00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:45,880 Speaker 2: ready to talk about it in the company says they're 336 00:15:45,920 --> 00:15:47,840 Speaker 2: ready to talk about is there anything we should be 337 00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:51,040 Speaker 2: you know, weary of or just kind of be watching 338 00:15:51,040 --> 00:15:51,880 Speaker 2: our backs a little bit? 339 00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:52,320 Speaker 4: You know. 340 00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:55,880 Speaker 3: I think that the one thing that I always say 341 00:15:56,080 --> 00:15:58,920 Speaker 3: is that we have options. And I think sometimes as 342 00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:01,120 Speaker 3: black and brow women, we feel we don't have options, 343 00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:02,920 Speaker 3: that we just kind of have to go with status quo. 344 00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:05,680 Speaker 3: And I think now we're at a position where we 345 00:16:05,760 --> 00:16:08,600 Speaker 3: can say what we mean without saying it mean. So 346 00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:11,000 Speaker 3: what I mean by that is, if we do want 347 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:15,280 Speaker 3: to engage in race, class, gender, whatever the case may be, 348 00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:18,120 Speaker 3: whatever intersection, we can decide that that's what we want 349 00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:19,960 Speaker 3: to do. But if we feel like we want to 350 00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:23,680 Speaker 3: tap out, we don't want that, Let the DEI person 351 00:16:23,760 --> 00:16:26,120 Speaker 3: or somebody else handle that. I'm going to be over 352 00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:28,000 Speaker 3: here doing my work and doing my own healing. 353 00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:30,400 Speaker 4: Then we also should give our self space to do 354 00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:31,000 Speaker 4: that as well. 355 00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:33,800 Speaker 3: One of the things that right within in the dedication, 356 00:16:33,880 --> 00:16:36,160 Speaker 3: it says to black women who were told they had 357 00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:39,240 Speaker 3: to be strong for everybody but themselves, it's time that 358 00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:42,600 Speaker 3: we no longer have to center everybody else's experiences if 359 00:16:42,640 --> 00:16:45,040 Speaker 3: that's not congruent with what we want. And I think 360 00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:48,920 Speaker 3: we can create the boundaries. Part of healing, in my opinion, 361 00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:52,880 Speaker 3: is creating boundaries with people. So letting people know what 362 00:16:52,920 --> 00:16:54,640 Speaker 3: good like good looks like to us. 363 00:16:54,680 --> 00:16:55,720 Speaker 4: So if we don't feel. 364 00:16:55,480 --> 00:16:58,280 Speaker 3: Comfortable engaging, we can use language like, you know, I 365 00:16:58,280 --> 00:17:01,080 Speaker 3: don't feel like this is a psychological safe environment for 366 00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:04,159 Speaker 3: me to have this conversation right now, but when I'm ready, 367 00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:06,399 Speaker 3: I'll be happy to let you know that, right And 368 00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:09,199 Speaker 3: I think again, a lot of our colleagues, Mandy, they 369 00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:12,560 Speaker 3: will tell us in a heartbeat what's working for them, 370 00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:15,600 Speaker 3: what they don't like, the copy papers out, there's no 371 00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:18,600 Speaker 3: more filters for the coffee maker, you know, like they 372 00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:21,159 Speaker 3: have no problems saying what they want to us. And 373 00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:24,200 Speaker 3: I feel like it's time for us to recenter and say, 374 00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:25,840 Speaker 3: you know what, here's what works for me and what 375 00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:28,159 Speaker 3: doesn't because no one's going to know that if we 376 00:17:28,320 --> 00:17:30,439 Speaker 3: don't let them know what good looks like to us, 377 00:17:30,520 --> 00:17:32,960 Speaker 3: and that is creating those boundaries. And so I talk 378 00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:35,800 Speaker 3: about drawing your line in the sand, letting people know 379 00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:38,160 Speaker 3: what's comfortable. And if you're not able to do that, 380 00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:41,760 Speaker 3: who's your squad? And the memo I talk about your squad? 381 00:17:42,359 --> 00:17:44,720 Speaker 3: Who are those people that you trust inside the workplace 382 00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:47,400 Speaker 3: that maybe you have the conversation with them and they 383 00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:50,679 Speaker 3: can have different conversations. So just knowing again that there 384 00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:54,760 Speaker 3: are various ways and resources that we can utilize that time. 385 00:17:54,760 --> 00:17:57,080 Speaker 3: But we don't have to feel guilt or shame or 386 00:17:57,320 --> 00:18:02,760 Speaker 3: a responsibility to be somebody's teacher and give them the homework, right, Like, 387 00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:06,520 Speaker 3: we can really now start to center ourselves and figure 388 00:18:06,520 --> 00:18:08,639 Speaker 3: out what healthy looks like for us. And if healthy 389 00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:11,400 Speaker 3: is not engaging, then that's not on the job description. 390 00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:13,119 Speaker 3: I don't think any of us were hired. Many of 391 00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:16,160 Speaker 3: us were not hired to be the educators of all 392 00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:19,119 Speaker 3: things related in the workplace. Now, if you want to 393 00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:22,159 Speaker 3: cut the check and this is an additional job role, 394 00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:23,679 Speaker 3: then that's a different kind of conversation. 395 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:27,520 Speaker 2: Yeah. For me, I think it was also just realizing 396 00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:31,360 Speaker 2: that even if there was good intentions you know, on 397 00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:34,959 Speaker 2: the employer's part or people in the workplace's part. It 398 00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:39,600 Speaker 2: was that sense of am I just the person who 399 00:18:39,640 --> 00:18:42,760 Speaker 2: makes you feel comfortable enough to talk about this, Like 400 00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:45,439 Speaker 2: am I that you know people say they have one 401 00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:48,120 Speaker 2: black friend, am I the black work friend, or am 402 00:18:48,119 --> 00:18:51,000 Speaker 2: I the senior leader black woman who you can sort 403 00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:52,920 Speaker 2: of look to and say, well, we're doing something right 404 00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:55,080 Speaker 2: of Mandy's here and she's doing okay. I have to 405 00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:57,399 Speaker 2: unpack all of that, but if I think back on 406 00:18:57,440 --> 00:19:00,440 Speaker 2: my corporate experience, is the hire and the ranks got 407 00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:04,880 Speaker 2: the more it felt like I became that token that 408 00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:09,199 Speaker 2: like that pet. You know, there's this yeah, there's this 409 00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:11,920 Speaker 2: whole idea of black women in the workplace kind of 410 00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:14,439 Speaker 2: being a pet one day and then a threat the 411 00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:18,200 Speaker 2: next day. And oh man, if that was the exact 412 00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:20,520 Speaker 2: thing that happened to me, I can't even I don't 413 00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:23,680 Speaker 2: even know if I've unpacked that yet, but I totally agree. 414 00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:26,840 Speaker 2: It's like the willingness to draw a line in the sand, 415 00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:29,840 Speaker 2: like you said, set a boundary and not talk, not 416 00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:34,280 Speaker 2: show up until you're, like you said, psychologically safe enough 417 00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:34,600 Speaker 2: to do so. 418 00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:36,160 Speaker 4: And we can create that for ourselves. 419 00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:39,439 Speaker 3: And I think giving ourself permission to do that, right, 420 00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:41,720 Speaker 3: Because we know what it's like to walk on eggshells 421 00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:43,600 Speaker 3: at work. We know what it's like when we're not 422 00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:46,040 Speaker 3: creating boundaries. So let's flip it. Let's give it a. 423 00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:46,640 Speaker 4: Chance, right. 424 00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:48,840 Speaker 3: I invite people to think about, what if you haven't 425 00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:51,680 Speaker 3: been creating boundaries, what's that one step? What's that boundary 426 00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:54,480 Speaker 3: that you can create to help center you? Because we're 427 00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:57,440 Speaker 3: not going to be our healthiest selves if we're constantly 428 00:19:58,280 --> 00:20:01,240 Speaker 3: walking on those eggshells and pretending that some of these 429 00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:03,400 Speaker 3: things are not affecting us. Because I make the joke 430 00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:06,160 Speaker 3: sometimes Mandy is like, no, we're not angry black women 431 00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:08,840 Speaker 3: at work, but when we go home, some of our 432 00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:11,440 Speaker 3: family members might see an angrier side, right, because you're. 433 00:20:12,359 --> 00:20:13,760 Speaker 4: Taking all of that from one. 434 00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:16,880 Speaker 3: Place that we can't express ourselves and articulate what's going 435 00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:19,200 Speaker 3: on now we take it home and then the other 436 00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:21,640 Speaker 3: part of it, it's chronic stress in our bodies, which 437 00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:24,040 Speaker 3: is making us not be able to live our most 438 00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:27,280 Speaker 3: healthiest lives on this planet because of all that chronic stress. 439 00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:29,760 Speaker 4: So our lives, our life really depends on it. 440 00:20:30,320 --> 00:20:33,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, you're absolutely right, and our happiness like our family's happiness. 441 00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:38,760 Speaker 2: Let's talk about you are more than Magic. I love 442 00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:42,600 Speaker 2: the concept of this book, especially being targeted toward young 443 00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:47,800 Speaker 2: black women right young. I'm thinking children, like adolescent age, 444 00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:51,480 Speaker 2: like teenage. I want every little girl and teenage girl 445 00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:53,199 Speaker 2: to know that they are more than magic. Talk to 446 00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:56,160 Speaker 2: me about that book and what it's all about, and 447 00:20:56,640 --> 00:20:57,920 Speaker 2: what made you want to write that next. 448 00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:00,639 Speaker 4: Yes, that's my third book that just came out with 449 00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:02,159 Speaker 4: Penguin Tine. Thank you for it. 450 00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:05,280 Speaker 3: I'm just so incredibly proud of you are more than Magic. 451 00:21:05,320 --> 00:21:09,080 Speaker 3: It's actually I like to say that it's a younger, 452 00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:11,840 Speaker 3: a young adult version of the memo. So I thought 453 00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:14,240 Speaker 3: about what were the things that I needed to hear 454 00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:17,840 Speaker 3: at fifteen, at thirteen, being you know, a black girl 455 00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:20,639 Speaker 3: in a predominantly growing up in a white town, but 456 00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:24,359 Speaker 3: often being the only black girl on your teams in 457 00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:27,320 Speaker 3: your classrooms. Those sorts of things and some of those 458 00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:30,600 Speaker 3: early experiences start to dictate who we show up as 459 00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:32,879 Speaker 3: in our adult life, right and I wanted to be 460 00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:35,320 Speaker 3: able to talk to young girls to say, you know what, 461 00:21:35,320 --> 00:21:39,040 Speaker 3: what you're doing right now, it's not magic. It's resilience, 462 00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:42,200 Speaker 3: it's hard work, it's dedication, it's not luck right, You're 463 00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:46,840 Speaker 3: not some magical faery for people to look at. I 464 00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:49,280 Speaker 3: know we use the term black girl magic as endearing, 465 00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:52,359 Speaker 3: which it's very much is, But any black woman that's 466 00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:55,280 Speaker 3: got where she is today is not magic, right. It's 467 00:21:55,280 --> 00:21:59,040 Speaker 3: hard work, it's grit, it's a community invested in her, 468 00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:01,000 Speaker 3: and we're so much more than that. And I just 469 00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:02,879 Speaker 3: wanted young girls to know that they could take up 470 00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:05,440 Speaker 3: space right now. They just have to decide how much 471 00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:07,600 Speaker 3: space they want to take up. They have a voice 472 00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:09,680 Speaker 3: right now. What does it look like to have those 473 00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:13,240 Speaker 3: conversations when their classmates says something that doesn't feel good, 474 00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:15,240 Speaker 3: maybe it's about their hair or their name, or. 475 00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:17,920 Speaker 4: How they show up? What does how do you respawd? 476 00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:19,800 Speaker 3: You know, you don't have to tie your worth to 477 00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:22,879 Speaker 3: somebody's ignorance, you know, all the little things that we 478 00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:26,560 Speaker 3: probably needed to hear, things like courage. But then also 479 00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:29,080 Speaker 3: I wrote the book in a way in which adults 480 00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:32,640 Speaker 3: in their lives or educators could also engage and read 481 00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:35,760 Speaker 3: this book because they do have voices, and we want 482 00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:38,760 Speaker 3: them to have healthy tools to be able to engage 483 00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:40,439 Speaker 3: and show up in the spaces that they need to 484 00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:43,560 Speaker 3: as their full selves not shrinking, because we know what 485 00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:46,000 Speaker 3: it feels like as adults when our voices are shrunk 486 00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:49,520 Speaker 3: in the workplace, and sometimes those things happen as teenagers, 487 00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:51,080 Speaker 3: and we just want to make sure that that's not 488 00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:54,040 Speaker 3: happening to them so that they can be their best selves. 489 00:22:58,080 --> 00:22:59,920 Speaker 2: I think one of the things for me growing up 490 00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:03,680 Speaker 2: was sometimes the sometimes the voices that tell us as 491 00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:07,679 Speaker 2: young black women, to go with it, go with the flow, 492 00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:12,000 Speaker 2: just be grateful. You know, here's your awards, So pat 493 00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:15,520 Speaker 2: on the head. Aren't you magical? All that Sometimes that 494 00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:19,000 Speaker 2: can come from people who look like us, from family, 495 00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:24,240 Speaker 2: you know, for me, it certainly did. And I wonder, like, 496 00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:27,600 Speaker 2: do you have any advice for this next next generation 497 00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:29,199 Speaker 2: of young black women who I just feel like are 498 00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:32,240 Speaker 2: gonna be a freaking force of nature. And I hope 499 00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:34,280 Speaker 2: they're not going to even know what Imposter's syndrome is. 500 00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:35,960 Speaker 2: They're just gonna be like, what, you're not gonna pay 501 00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:39,399 Speaker 2: me well, bye bye. But I worry a little bit 502 00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:42,399 Speaker 2: about that, like that friction between generations that you have 503 00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:45,240 Speaker 2: a whole other generation who was told a completely different 504 00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:48,080 Speaker 2: way of how to be, and then you have this 505 00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:51,240 Speaker 2: newer generation coming up who is gonna hopefully know a 506 00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:52,840 Speaker 2: lot different because they're going to read you are more 507 00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:54,919 Speaker 2: than magic. But like, do you have any advice for 508 00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:56,040 Speaker 2: that or any thoughts on. 509 00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:56,639 Speaker 4: That, you know what. 510 00:23:56,920 --> 00:23:58,800 Speaker 3: I'm glad that you brought that up, because as I 511 00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:01,600 Speaker 3: wrote the book, I was kind instantly thinking about the 512 00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:05,439 Speaker 3: generational gap, right, because you think about for some of 513 00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:08,760 Speaker 3: our some of our elders, they taught many of us 514 00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:11,479 Speaker 3: be seen and not heard right, or sometimes they use 515 00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:13,560 Speaker 3: language like speak up, girl, or shut up or know 516 00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:16,480 Speaker 3: you're playing. You know, all these different things that are 517 00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:20,800 Speaker 3: you know, social media wasn't necessarily a thing for some generations, 518 00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:23,439 Speaker 3: so they don't understand the pressure that these young girls 519 00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:25,359 Speaker 3: may be under right now. And so instead of me 520 00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:27,239 Speaker 3: showing up to the book and being like when I 521 00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:29,639 Speaker 3: was your age, I decided to do a bunch of 522 00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:33,800 Speaker 3: roundtable discussions with black girls across the country, and I 523 00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:36,520 Speaker 3: sat and asked them questions about what they are experiencing, 524 00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:38,760 Speaker 3: what are what are the pain points? And and I 525 00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:42,800 Speaker 3: wrote from there from their pain points, and I talked 526 00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:45,880 Speaker 3: about my experiences around those and things. And so one 527 00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:49,959 Speaker 3: of the big one told topic is difficult conversations. And 528 00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:52,840 Speaker 3: I talk to them about it because I told them 529 00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:54,800 Speaker 3: there's people in your life that may not have the 530 00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:57,240 Speaker 3: tools they need to help you be your best self. 531 00:24:57,440 --> 00:25:02,280 Speaker 3: So don't let them dict hate you know, how you 532 00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:04,040 Speaker 3: show up in the world, because it's not that they 533 00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:06,080 Speaker 3: don't want you to be seen or use your voice, 534 00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:08,679 Speaker 3: they just might not know that it's possible. Right, And 535 00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:11,240 Speaker 3: so I also write to the parent and the guardians 536 00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:14,080 Speaker 3: to say, you know, don't silence your young girl's voice. 537 00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:17,600 Speaker 3: If she's saying something, hear her out right, so that 538 00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:21,160 Speaker 3: you can have a dialogue. And I think that that's 539 00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:24,280 Speaker 3: crossing the inner generational gap so that we can all 540 00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:28,200 Speaker 3: sit together and say, listen, this is hard out here sometimes, 541 00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:31,280 Speaker 3: but we you deserve to be in this space. You 542 00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:33,600 Speaker 3: deserve to be in every room that you're in, but 543 00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:34,280 Speaker 3: not every. 544 00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:35,439 Speaker 4: Space deserves to have you. 545 00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:38,440 Speaker 3: And the earlier a young black or brown girl can 546 00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:41,159 Speaker 3: know that the moment she can say peace, that she 547 00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:45,200 Speaker 3: doesn't have to just stay here and participate in this 548 00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:48,360 Speaker 3: you know, oppression, but that she can find those spaces 549 00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:51,280 Speaker 3: that celebrate her right. Or when I was younger, my 550 00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:53,440 Speaker 3: father always had to go and talk to one particular 551 00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:55,720 Speaker 3: teacher because she was always singling me out as the 552 00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:58,399 Speaker 3: only black girl in class, so when those things happen, 553 00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:02,600 Speaker 3: having the language to be a articulate that sometimes things 554 00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:05,480 Speaker 3: are race related, but it doesn't dictate your worth. 555 00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:07,240 Speaker 4: And I think young girls just need to know that 556 00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:07,840 Speaker 4: early on. 557 00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:11,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, and if it's not, I love what you said. 558 00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:12,960 Speaker 2: I want to like go back to that because I 559 00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:14,399 Speaker 2: just feel like I want to put it on a 560 00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:16,439 Speaker 2: poster and hang it on my wall. But it was 561 00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:19,240 Speaker 2: about people around you may not have the tools that 562 00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:22,480 Speaker 2: they need to help you be the best vers something 563 00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:27,240 Speaker 2: like that. So such an incredible way to like a 564 00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:31,320 Speaker 2: mind shift, you know, how to shift your mindset around okay, 565 00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:33,320 Speaker 2: even if someone around you is saying one thing, you 566 00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:38,399 Speaker 2: don't always have to internalize that or going to people 567 00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:40,920 Speaker 2: who may just be you know, your family or your 568 00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:44,080 Speaker 2: friends at school. The world gets so much bigger, you know, 569 00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:47,040 Speaker 2: once you get out of high school, even through college 570 00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:49,679 Speaker 2: and then the working world, and then finding the people 571 00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:53,240 Speaker 2: who do have who are healthy enough themselves to be 572 00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:55,320 Speaker 2: able to pour into you, you know what I mean, 573 00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:57,680 Speaker 2: and like surrounding yourself. It may take a while for me. 574 00:26:57,720 --> 00:26:59,240 Speaker 2: I feel like it took me years and years to 575 00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:01,479 Speaker 2: collect the right little group of gems you know what 576 00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:04,480 Speaker 2: I mean. But when you find your chosen family in 577 00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:08,520 Speaker 2: that way, and it's like a collection of mentors like colleagues, 578 00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:12,040 Speaker 2: new friends, but yeah, people who you sort of surround 579 00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:15,040 Speaker 2: yourself with, who are who are able to give you 580 00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:18,120 Speaker 2: what you need and echo back to you how much 581 00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:21,840 Speaker 2: you're capable of. That's such a beautiful, beautiful message. So 582 00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:23,879 Speaker 2: what does this look like for you? I feel like 583 00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:27,960 Speaker 2: you should be at every high school across America, like 584 00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:30,720 Speaker 2: doing talks and stuff. But how are you reaching these teens? 585 00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:34,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, it's been a different process having well 586 00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:36,960 Speaker 3: when the memo came out, the book came out before 587 00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:40,000 Speaker 3: the pandemic, then right Within came out during the pandemic, 588 00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:41,560 Speaker 3: and now you are more than magic. 589 00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:42,720 Speaker 4: It's a new group of people. 590 00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:46,400 Speaker 3: So the one thing that I've demographic so I'm starting 591 00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:48,880 Speaker 3: to I did an event with Black Girls Rock last week, 592 00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:52,000 Speaker 3: which was really awesome. They have a Black Girl's Lead program, 593 00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:54,600 Speaker 3: and one of their alums interviewed me about some of 594 00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:57,080 Speaker 3: the topics in the book. But my goal is to 595 00:27:57,160 --> 00:28:01,520 Speaker 3: get to every organization in school and have these conversations 596 00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:04,679 Speaker 3: and also talk with parents and educators and guardians because 597 00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:07,600 Speaker 3: I think that part of the success of young black 598 00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:09,359 Speaker 3: and brown girls is making sure that we have the 599 00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:12,000 Speaker 3: tools to be able to support them in the ways 600 00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:14,840 Speaker 3: that they need to. And so again having these new 601 00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:17,960 Speaker 3: tools so that they can thrive and be their best 602 00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:20,280 Speaker 3: selves right now. But so if anyone listening, if you 603 00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:23,840 Speaker 3: know of any good organizations or sororities or fraternities that 604 00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:28,640 Speaker 3: have you know, little sister or brother organizations, these conversations 605 00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:31,240 Speaker 3: need to be had because now is the time, right 606 00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:34,120 Speaker 3: And like you said, I'm so excited with this generation 607 00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:37,280 Speaker 3: because they're thinking differently, they're more inclusive, and if they 608 00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:40,120 Speaker 3: just have the right curation, there's nothing that they can do. 609 00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:44,400 Speaker 2: Yeah. And it's also I feel like on some level, 610 00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:47,800 Speaker 2: maybe a little bit more difficult to convince. I'm a 611 00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:49,160 Speaker 2: mom now. I don't know if you're a mom too. 612 00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:51,080 Speaker 2: I have a young son. Being a parent now, I'm 613 00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:54,520 Speaker 2: kind of shocked at how little I recognized how little 614 00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:56,800 Speaker 2: this country, it can feel like countries, this country cares 615 00:28:56,840 --> 00:28:59,880 Speaker 2: about kids in general, let alone black and brown kids. 616 00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:02,640 Speaker 2: And the more I the more I, you know, look 617 00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:05,520 Speaker 2: at the world differently through my son's eyes, I'm just like, damn, 618 00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:08,840 Speaker 2: why don't we do more? And I can just see 619 00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:11,880 Speaker 2: already the challenge of convincing. I mean, it's one thing 620 00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:14,440 Speaker 2: to convince a company to invest in, like having a 621 00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:17,520 Speaker 2: mend to hearts come and speak to their erg or whatnot. 622 00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:21,000 Speaker 2: But how like, I'm just begging everyone listening to just 623 00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:24,360 Speaker 2: think about how we are like those organizations that are 624 00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:28,840 Speaker 2: working with black girls and black girl empowerment and leadership 625 00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:31,200 Speaker 2: and black You mentioned Black Girl's Rock, which is incredible, 626 00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:33,840 Speaker 2: But how are we supporting and showing up for those 627 00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:37,480 Speaker 2: organizations and showing that we care about the work, that 628 00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:40,720 Speaker 2: we care about investing more in young women of color. 629 00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:43,800 Speaker 2: So ugh, I just want to put them all in 630 00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:47,520 Speaker 2: like little snow globes and protect them from everything. 631 00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:50,200 Speaker 3: But ah, you know one thing I'll say really fast, Mandy, 632 00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:53,080 Speaker 3: is that when I did the roundtables with the black 633 00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:55,560 Speaker 3: girls from different parts of the country, and you know, 634 00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:58,080 Speaker 3: one thing, I asked them, what would you want people 635 00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:00,880 Speaker 3: to know about you and how to engage in the 636 00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:03,160 Speaker 3: regardless of where I spoke to them and where they 637 00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:05,200 Speaker 3: live in the country. They said, they just want to 638 00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:08,080 Speaker 3: be seen. They want people to treat them like they 639 00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:11,800 Speaker 3: treat their daughters and their sons, and just be seen. 640 00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:14,960 Speaker 3: And it broke my heart that even at thirteen and 641 00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:17,840 Speaker 3: fourteen and twenty one, that they feel that like not 642 00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:21,840 Speaker 3: being seen. Right, And I use this book as a protector, Like, 643 00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:24,200 Speaker 3: even on those days where they don't see you, know 644 00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:25,760 Speaker 3: that we always see you. 645 00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:27,920 Speaker 4: You're always seen and you're not hidden. 646 00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:32,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, make me cry, Menda, but that's okay. Thank you 647 00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:36,880 Speaker 2: so much for sharing your beautiful work with with Brown Ambition, Bafam. 648 00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:38,800 Speaker 2: You have to go to mindeharts dot com and check 649 00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:40,680 Speaker 2: out all of her incredible work. What else can we 650 00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:42,880 Speaker 2: tell people about you? Go pick up the memo. It's 651 00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:45,560 Speaker 2: called the Memo What Women of Color Need to Notice 652 00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:48,440 Speaker 2: Secure seat at the Table. Also, we talked about the 653 00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:51,880 Speaker 2: Rite Within and your newest book, You Are more than Magic, 654 00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:54,160 Speaker 2: Mendeheart's thank you so much for joining Brown Ambition