1 00:00:03,320 --> 00:00:07,280 Speaker 1: On this episode of Newsworld. Born in seventeen oh eight, 2 00:00:07,960 --> 00:00:12,799 Speaker 1: Mary Ball Washington was a resilient widow who single handedly 3 00:00:12,920 --> 00:00:15,840 Speaker 1: raised five children and ran a large farm at a 4 00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:20,040 Speaker 1: time when most women's duties were relegated to household matters. 5 00:00:20,920 --> 00:00:23,520 Speaker 1: She raised her eldest son, George, to become one of 6 00:00:23,560 --> 00:00:26,840 Speaker 1: the greatest leaders in history and the first President of 7 00:00:26,840 --> 00:00:30,760 Speaker 1: the United States. George was only eleven years old when 8 00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:34,920 Speaker 1: his father passed away. She played a major role in 9 00:00:35,080 --> 00:00:40,479 Speaker 1: shaping his character and quote principled and moral upbringing. In 10 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:44,920 Speaker 1: his new book, author Craig Shirley explores George Washington's family 11 00:00:44,920 --> 00:00:49,040 Speaker 1: and upbringing and how his mother shaped his life. I'm 12 00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:53,240 Speaker 1: pleased to welcome my guest, Craig Shirley, author of Mary 13 00:00:53,280 --> 00:01:10,360 Speaker 1: Ball Washington, The Untold Story of George Washington's Mother. Given 14 00:01:10,400 --> 00:01:14,119 Speaker 1: everything you could write, why do you pick Mary Ball Washington? 15 00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:18,960 Speaker 1: Because she has been abused by history? Because it needed redressing. 16 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:22,160 Speaker 1: If you accept the fact that George Washington was arguably 17 00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:26,200 Speaker 1: the greatest man in American history and possibly the greatest 18 00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:28,920 Speaker 1: man in the world, how could he be the product 19 00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:32,960 Speaker 1: of bad parents, especially since his father, Augustine died when 20 00:01:32,959 --> 00:01:36,520 Speaker 1: George was only eleven years old. So where did Washington 21 00:01:36,680 --> 00:01:40,360 Speaker 1: get all those values of honesty and integrity, and courage 22 00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:43,959 Speaker 1: and faith and devotion, all those marvelous adjectives that we 23 00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:47,319 Speaker 1: attached to George Washington even today, who sets the standard 24 00:01:47,319 --> 00:01:51,400 Speaker 1: by which every president since him has been measured by 25 00:01:51,680 --> 00:01:54,720 Speaker 1: everything from the title of mister President to the two 26 00:01:54,840 --> 00:01:58,800 Speaker 1: term limit, the restraint of military force, the restraint of 27 00:01:59,080 --> 00:02:02,160 Speaker 1: interlocking alliance with foreign national governments, things like that. All 28 00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:06,680 Speaker 1: this came from George Washington, in addition to being unanimously 29 00:02:06,760 --> 00:02:11,040 Speaker 1: chosen to lead the American Revolution, unanimously chosen to preside 30 00:02:11,040 --> 00:02:14,600 Speaker 1: all over the Constitutional Convention, unanimously chosen as the first 31 00:02:14,639 --> 00:02:17,240 Speaker 1: President of States, and then the unanioally reelected as President 32 00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:20,160 Speaker 1: of States. So where did he get all these marvelous qualities? Well, 33 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:22,200 Speaker 1: he got them from his mother. There were a lot 34 00:02:22,200 --> 00:02:25,400 Speaker 1: of arguments, but ultimately she was a good woman in 35 00:02:25,440 --> 00:02:28,480 Speaker 1: a century that was not very hospitable to women in 36 00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:30,760 Speaker 1: the seventeen hundreds. Not we know, women couldn't vote, but 37 00:02:30,760 --> 00:02:33,560 Speaker 1: they couldn't even own property. Their job was to act 38 00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:36,800 Speaker 1: as a custodian the property when their husbands passed away 39 00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:39,480 Speaker 1: and then passed along to their eldest son. That was it. 40 00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:43,919 Speaker 1: So here she is the quintessential single mother, raising five 41 00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:47,680 Speaker 1: children in her thirties on her own. They were all 42 00:02:47,800 --> 00:02:50,480 Speaker 1: good children, But how did she produce her eldest to 43 00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:53,240 Speaker 1: become the greatest man in the history of the American Republic? 44 00:02:53,520 --> 00:02:56,760 Speaker 1: She needed to be readdressed history over the last three 45 00:02:56,800 --> 00:02:59,840 Speaker 1: hundred years between the time of her passing up until 46 00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:02,359 Speaker 1: the Civil War, she came across as kind of a 47 00:03:02,440 --> 00:03:06,840 Speaker 1: June Cleaver type, which was wrong. After the reality period 48 00:03:06,919 --> 00:03:09,200 Speaker 1: set in an American literature and you got Melville and 49 00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:13,160 Speaker 1: Stephen Crane and other darker novels in the history of 50 00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:17,480 Speaker 1: American society and culture, a darker Joan Crawford image of 51 00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:21,600 Speaker 1: Mary emerged, which was equally wrong. Ron Chernow's masterful book 52 00:03:21,760 --> 00:03:25,639 Speaker 1: George Washington took a very dark view of Mary, said 53 00:03:25,680 --> 00:03:29,440 Speaker 1: that she was an unlettered countrywoman. Well, she was actually 54 00:03:29,520 --> 00:03:33,040 Speaker 1: quite literally she wrote often she was in Fredericksburg, which 55 00:03:33,080 --> 00:03:35,640 Speaker 1: was considered a major center of commerce and culture in 56 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:39,840 Speaker 1: society in the seventeen hundred. So even Churnow got her wrong. 57 00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:44,040 Speaker 1: How do you know about finding what you would argue 58 00:03:44,160 --> 00:03:48,280 Speaker 1: is the real Maryaball Washington. As it happens, Zerine and 59 00:03:48,360 --> 00:03:51,960 Speaker 1: I attend White Chapel Episcopal Church on the Northern Neck 60 00:03:51,960 --> 00:03:54,920 Speaker 1: of Virginia, which was the ancient church of the ancestral 61 00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:59,200 Speaker 1: Ball family. Her parents attended this church, her siblings attended 62 00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:01,800 Speaker 1: this church, and Mary attended this church. So they had 63 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:05,280 Speaker 1: a lot of old church records there. Plus, her original 64 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:08,120 Speaker 1: house is still standing. Not only that, it's not even 65 00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:11,760 Speaker 1: a brickhouse, it's clapboard house, and in three hundred years 66 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:14,360 Speaker 1: it never burned down. But it didn't have much in 67 00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:17,200 Speaker 1: the way of records. This was the most difficult research 68 00:04:17,279 --> 00:04:20,160 Speaker 1: project I undertook. Because there was a little bit at 69 00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:22,440 Speaker 1: the Merryball Washington Museum. There was a little bit at 70 00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:25,159 Speaker 1: the Merry Ball Washington Library. There was a little bit 71 00:04:25,200 --> 00:04:27,920 Speaker 1: at ten more N in Fredericksburg. There was a little 72 00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:30,640 Speaker 1: bit that the Sons of the American Revolution in Washington. 73 00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:33,000 Speaker 1: There was a little bit at Mount Vernon, and then 74 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:34,960 Speaker 1: there's a little bit with the University of Virginia, which 75 00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:38,240 Speaker 1: is now archiving a lot of Washington's letters. It was 76 00:04:38,320 --> 00:04:43,640 Speaker 1: scattered all over the place, so it required really monumental effort. 77 00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:46,600 Speaker 1: I had several researchers working for me to go ferret 78 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:50,080 Speaker 1: out this material and then come up with what I 79 00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:55,400 Speaker 1: thought was a cogent storyline about her birth, her life, 80 00:04:55,440 --> 00:04:58,479 Speaker 1: and her death and what she meant to Washington and 81 00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:01,000 Speaker 1: as a result, what she meant to him America. So 82 00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:03,200 Speaker 1: you really are sort of tracking this stuff down all 83 00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:06,040 Speaker 1: over the place. Yes, we wrote to the old newspaper 84 00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:10,159 Speaker 1: offices in Fredericksburg. We were granted access to his letters 85 00:05:10,640 --> 00:05:13,800 Speaker 1: at Mount Vernon. There's a lot of interesting stories. For instance, 86 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:16,640 Speaker 1: after the Revolution and he and Martha are settled back 87 00:05:16,640 --> 00:05:19,960 Speaker 1: into Mount Vernon, he writes simultaneous letters to his mother 88 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:22,080 Speaker 1: in law, Missus Dandridge, and a letter to his mother, 89 00:05:22,120 --> 00:05:25,080 Speaker 1: and to Missus Dandridge, he says, please come and visit 90 00:05:25,240 --> 00:05:27,839 Speaker 1: Martha and me at Mount Vernon. We have lots of food, 91 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:30,080 Speaker 1: we have lots of music, we have lots of room, 92 00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:31,560 Speaker 1: and we have lots of people, and you'll have a 93 00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:34,320 Speaker 1: great time along. About the same time, he writes a 94 00:05:34,400 --> 00:05:36,839 Speaker 1: letter to his mother. He always addressed letters to his 95 00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:40,560 Speaker 1: mother honored Madam, which I think reflected the arms length 96 00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:43,320 Speaker 1: relationship between the two, but also the respect he showed 97 00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:46,760 Speaker 1: for her. But he writes, honored Madam, please don't come 98 00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:49,320 Speaker 1: to Mount Vernon. You won't like the food. There're too 99 00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:51,240 Speaker 1: many people, the music is too loud. We don't have 100 00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:55,680 Speaker 1: enough room for you. A very arguments. He used with 101 00:05:55,720 --> 00:05:58,480 Speaker 1: his mother in law to come visit. He flips them 102 00:05:58,480 --> 00:06:00,240 Speaker 1: to use with his mother. Not to come of it. 103 00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:03,240 Speaker 1: Because you began to pull this together, when did it 104 00:06:03,320 --> 00:06:06,480 Speaker 1: hit you that you were dealing with a very different 105 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:10,599 Speaker 1: person than you expected. I don't know if I had 106 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:14,479 Speaker 1: an epiphany new I think it was a slow realization 107 00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:19,080 Speaker 1: once I began to decide or determine that she was 108 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:21,560 Speaker 1: tough because she had to be tough. She was a 109 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:24,960 Speaker 1: single mother in a tough century, raising five children on 110 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:27,200 Speaker 1: her own. Of course, she had to be tough. But 111 00:06:27,279 --> 00:06:30,600 Speaker 1: on the other hand too, she was a devout congregant 112 00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:34,240 Speaker 1: to the Anglican Church. She was faithful in her religious readings. 113 00:06:34,839 --> 00:06:37,159 Speaker 1: She had several favorite books which she read and reread, 114 00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:41,560 Speaker 1: which were religiously based books. I couldn't find anything about 115 00:06:41,880 --> 00:06:45,200 Speaker 1: neighbors complaining about her. Now, maybe they just kept her themselves. 116 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:48,640 Speaker 1: But letters do emerge, and they tend to lend themselves 117 00:06:48,640 --> 00:06:51,840 Speaker 1: to the truth about the individual. But nothing ever emerged. Now, 118 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:55,440 Speaker 1: obviously she's the mother of the leader of the American Revolution. 119 00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:58,239 Speaker 1: And then she's the mother of the President United States. 120 00:06:58,440 --> 00:07:01,240 Speaker 1: He is a national thing, He is a rock star. 121 00:07:01,279 --> 00:07:04,760 Speaker 1: He is a celebrity in America, especially after the Revolution. 122 00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:08,600 Speaker 1: And yet there's nothing from the neighbors or newspaper or 123 00:07:08,640 --> 00:07:12,040 Speaker 1: anything about complaining about her being shrewish or nasty or 124 00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:14,680 Speaker 1: mean or anything else like that. Anything that you do 125 00:07:14,760 --> 00:07:18,480 Speaker 1: see in print is pretty laudatory. After the Revolution, they 126 00:07:18,520 --> 00:07:21,880 Speaker 1: had a big celebration in Fredericksburg to honor General Washington 127 00:07:22,320 --> 00:07:24,760 Speaker 1: and his mother. It was an event with music and 128 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:28,040 Speaker 1: punch and food and dancing, and they had ads in 129 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:32,400 Speaker 1: the local Fredericksburg newspaper come joining the celebration to celebrate 130 00:07:32,440 --> 00:07:35,320 Speaker 1: the victory of the colonies and the leadership of General 131 00:07:35,320 --> 00:07:40,680 Speaker 1: Washington and his mother, Mary Ball Washington. Next. Mary Ball 132 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:43,040 Speaker 1: grew up as a British subject and believed in the 133 00:07:43,080 --> 00:07:45,400 Speaker 1: divine rule of the King of England. How did she 134 00:07:45,560 --> 00:07:48,360 Speaker 1: raise her firstborn son to be the leader of the 135 00:07:48,360 --> 00:08:10,400 Speaker 1: American Revolution. How did she raise her firstborn son to 136 00:08:10,440 --> 00:08:13,280 Speaker 1: be the leader of the American Revolution. It's pretty well 137 00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:15,480 Speaker 1: clear that she was not a support of the American Revolution. 138 00:08:15,560 --> 00:08:18,920 Speaker 1: She was probably a Tory sympathizer. You know, she grew 139 00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:22,040 Speaker 1: up immersed in the British culture. She grew up as 140 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:24,960 Speaker 1: a British subject. She grew up believing in the divine 141 00:08:25,080 --> 00:08:28,559 Speaker 1: rule of King George the Second, of King George the Third. 142 00:08:29,080 --> 00:08:31,320 Speaker 1: She was, as I said, a regular comic in the 143 00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:34,800 Speaker 1: Anglican Church, the Church of England. She used British currency, 144 00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:39,160 Speaker 1: she bought British fabric and British clothing, She followed British fashion. 145 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:43,800 Speaker 1: She grew up and was immersed and indoctrinated in the 146 00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:47,000 Speaker 1: British culture. And so to tell her everything you learned 147 00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:50,160 Speaker 1: for sixty years is wrong. The state does not have 148 00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:53,480 Speaker 1: authority over the individual. You have authority over yourself. And 149 00:08:53,559 --> 00:08:56,760 Speaker 1: that the government is not by divine rule, that's by 150 00:08:56,800 --> 00:08:59,520 Speaker 1: the rule of you, the American people. You know, this 151 00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:03,120 Speaker 1: is radical, radical thinking. Maybe as many as one third 152 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:08,240 Speaker 1: or even more of American colonists were actually Tory sympathizers 153 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:12,000 Speaker 1: and supporters. During all the revolution, Washington never had complete 154 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:15,120 Speaker 1: supporting American people. Interestingly enough, during the seven years of 155 00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:17,760 Speaker 1: the revolution, Washington never wrote a letter to his mother, 156 00:09:17,840 --> 00:09:20,520 Speaker 1: not that anything's ever surfaced, and he was a pretty 157 00:09:20,520 --> 00:09:23,400 Speaker 1: faithful letter writer to his mother. But during those seven 158 00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:26,360 Speaker 1: years not one letter has ever emerged, and I've often 159 00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:30,440 Speaker 1: wondered if it was just for security purposes or do 160 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:33,480 Speaker 1: you think that he was aware they weren't on the 161 00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:38,000 Speaker 1: same side. Oh, I think he was definitely aware. He 162 00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:41,920 Speaker 1: never expressed it. One thing is for sure. She was very, 163 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:45,400 Speaker 1: very frank, a single woman raising children. She was not 164 00:09:45,520 --> 00:09:48,160 Speaker 1: a member of the Virginia aristocracy now like Martha was. 165 00:09:48,559 --> 00:09:51,480 Speaker 1: She was comfortable. She had property, she had very farm, 166 00:09:51,520 --> 00:09:54,560 Speaker 1: she had twenty slaves there. She had pretty good income 167 00:09:55,080 --> 00:09:58,080 Speaker 1: from the agriculture that was approduced on the various farms, 168 00:09:58,559 --> 00:10:02,560 Speaker 1: but she was not rich by any stretched imagination. She 169 00:10:02,679 --> 00:10:05,600 Speaker 1: did emerge as a tough woman. I think it's safe 170 00:10:05,640 --> 00:10:08,079 Speaker 1: to say was that she was fairly frank in her 171 00:10:08,200 --> 00:10:12,400 Speaker 1: conversations with George. She kept him joined the British Navy, 172 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:14,080 Speaker 1: and when he was fourteen years old, she put her 173 00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:15,559 Speaker 1: foot down and said, no, you're not going to join. 174 00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:18,120 Speaker 1: She wrote a letter to her brother John, who was 175 00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:20,760 Speaker 1: in London, and said George wants to join the British 176 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:23,439 Speaker 1: Navy as cabin boy. What do you think? And within 177 00:10:23,559 --> 00:10:26,040 Speaker 1: weeks a hot letter comes back from her brother saying 178 00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:30,559 Speaker 1: under no circumstances do you allow George joined the British Navy, 179 00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:33,760 Speaker 1: and he used the word dogs in his letter. He 180 00:10:33,760 --> 00:10:36,920 Speaker 1: said Americans are treated like dogs in the British Navy, 181 00:10:36,920 --> 00:10:38,960 Speaker 1: and he used some other pejordis which I can't say. 182 00:10:39,559 --> 00:10:42,240 Speaker 1: But what was clear was that there was a cast 183 00:10:42,280 --> 00:10:45,960 Speaker 1: system in the British Navy, all through the navy, obviously, 184 00:10:45,960 --> 00:10:48,240 Speaker 1: but also extended to cabin boys. And the first in 185 00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:50,960 Speaker 1: the cast were sons of British Royalty, then sons of 186 00:10:50,960 --> 00:10:54,040 Speaker 1: British subjects, and then all the way down to the the bottom. 187 00:10:54,120 --> 00:10:57,800 Speaker 1: Even after Jamaican slaves were American boys. They were treated 188 00:10:57,840 --> 00:11:00,520 Speaker 1: the worst of all. This is another time she altered 189 00:11:00,520 --> 00:11:04,160 Speaker 1: the course of American history. According to British Admiralty, something 190 00:11:04,400 --> 00:11:07,319 Speaker 1: like one third of British capital boys died at sea, 191 00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:11,920 Speaker 1: washed overboard, died of scurvy, died of dysenterry, were killed 192 00:11:11,960 --> 00:11:15,400 Speaker 1: in battle, or something befell them. So putting a fourteen 193 00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:19,320 Speaker 1: year old boy into that dangerous situation was another risk 194 00:11:19,400 --> 00:11:22,800 Speaker 1: that may have saved the American Revolution because Mary put 195 00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:24,199 Speaker 1: her foot down and said, no, you're not going to 196 00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:27,840 Speaker 1: join the British Navy. When you think of Washington's character, 197 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:31,119 Speaker 1: which I think is in some ways the most amazing 198 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:37,160 Speaker 1: aspect of the Revolutionary period. Historians like to study, you know, 199 00:11:37,240 --> 00:11:40,319 Speaker 1: Jefferson and others because they wrote a lot, and Washington 200 00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:43,640 Speaker 1: mostly was a force of being rather than a force 201 00:11:43,679 --> 00:11:49,760 Speaker 1: of words. In your mind, what's her role in creating Washington? 202 00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:56,559 Speaker 1: Everything from his grace and his manners, to his rectitude, 203 00:11:57,280 --> 00:12:00,200 Speaker 1: to his bravery, to his commitment to his faith. I mean, 204 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:02,439 Speaker 1: there's no doubt he was a man of faith, and 205 00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:05,080 Speaker 1: he wrote about it, and he was not afraid to 206 00:12:05,160 --> 00:12:06,920 Speaker 1: let people know that he was a man of God, 207 00:12:06,960 --> 00:12:09,880 Speaker 1: and he believed in divine providence. I think he got 208 00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:14,440 Speaker 1: all that from her, His character, his very fiber of 209 00:12:14,520 --> 00:12:17,920 Speaker 1: his being. He got a little bit from Augustine, his father. 210 00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:21,280 Speaker 1: But Augustine died when George is only eleven. Now Lawrence, 211 00:12:21,520 --> 00:12:24,080 Speaker 1: his half brother, who was about fifteen years older than 212 00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:26,360 Speaker 1: George at the time. He was, by all accounts, a 213 00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:31,520 Speaker 1: very handsome man, very tall, brave, exhibited all those tendencies 214 00:12:31,760 --> 00:12:35,680 Speaker 1: that young George admired. But Lawrence died when he's only 215 00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:38,280 Speaker 1: in his early thirties, and he was never in Fredericksburg. 216 00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:42,160 Speaker 1: So that type of influence is probably incomplete. There were 217 00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:44,920 Speaker 1: no other men in his life, so it stands to 218 00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:47,520 Speaker 1: reason the only person left in his life and his mother. 219 00:12:48,080 --> 00:12:51,439 Speaker 1: It has to be her that instilled in him all 220 00:12:51,440 --> 00:12:55,679 Speaker 1: these fundamental traits that made up his astounding character. He 221 00:12:55,960 --> 00:12:58,679 Speaker 1: have a mother who doesn't want him to go off 222 00:12:58,679 --> 00:13:02,040 Speaker 1: to war in the French and Indian War, doesn't want 223 00:13:02,080 --> 00:13:04,120 Speaker 1: him to go off to be the commanding general of 224 00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:07,680 Speaker 1: the revolution. There must have been kind of an amazing 225 00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:11,680 Speaker 1: toughness in the way they are related to each other. Oh, yes, 226 00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:15,400 Speaker 1: there's no doubt that they battle sometimes. She did not 227 00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:17,800 Speaker 1: win these arguments. She wanted him to become a surveyor. 228 00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:19,599 Speaker 1: He became a surveyor. She did not want him to 229 00:13:19,640 --> 00:13:21,600 Speaker 1: go fight in the French and Indian Wars. He went 230 00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:23,760 Speaker 1: three times in the Ohio Valley, first time as a 231 00:13:23,800 --> 00:13:26,360 Speaker 1: member of the Virginia Militia and the next two times 232 00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:29,960 Speaker 1: his lieutenant colonel in the British Militia. He obviously loved adventure. 233 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:32,440 Speaker 1: He wrote a letter to his brother John about the 234 00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:35,280 Speaker 1: romantic sound of bullets as they whizzed by your head. 235 00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:38,320 Speaker 1: He'd loved the adventure of the Ohio Valley even when 236 00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:40,720 Speaker 1: he was briefly taken as a prisoner of war and 237 00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:45,400 Speaker 1: was held hostage. Part of the change in Washington's life 238 00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:50,120 Speaker 1: is Martha. How do Martha and Mary Ball Washington get along, 239 00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:55,840 Speaker 1: That's a great question. The evidence is very thin. I'm 240 00:13:55,880 --> 00:13:58,440 Speaker 1: assuming they did not get along well, or at least 241 00:13:58,440 --> 00:14:01,680 Speaker 1: that Mary did not get along with Martha. Mary did 242 00:14:01,679 --> 00:14:06,160 Speaker 1: not attend their wedding. She never visited Malvernon in her life. 243 00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:09,000 Speaker 1: There's one thin piece of evidence that she went to 244 00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:11,800 Speaker 1: Malvernon to implore George not to go fight the French 245 00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:14,680 Speaker 1: in the Wars, but it's kind of threadbare. When George 246 00:14:14,679 --> 00:14:17,120 Speaker 1: and Martha would go to Fredericksburg and George would go 247 00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:20,160 Speaker 1: visit his mother, Mary would go stay at Kenmore with 248 00:14:20,320 --> 00:14:24,160 Speaker 1: Betty and Fielding Lewis, who was also a great man 249 00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:27,400 Speaker 1: and great hero of the American Revolution. There's no letters 250 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:31,000 Speaker 1: between the two, There's no evidence of any real interaction 251 00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:33,360 Speaker 1: between the two. I tried to study as best it 252 00:14:33,400 --> 00:14:37,720 Speaker 1: could human relations of that time period between father and son, 253 00:14:37,880 --> 00:14:41,320 Speaker 1: mother and daughter, husband and wife, and they were not 254 00:14:41,480 --> 00:14:43,640 Speaker 1: unlike they are today. They were a little more stiff, 255 00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:46,760 Speaker 1: a little bit more formal, more attention to discipline and 256 00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:49,320 Speaker 1: work around the house. Who work on the farm, but 257 00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:52,160 Speaker 1: in terms of the relations with each other, it wasn't 258 00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:55,440 Speaker 1: unlike what it is today. But I couldn't find really 259 00:14:55,480 --> 00:14:59,560 Speaker 1: anything about the relationship between mothers in law and daughters 260 00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:03,800 Speaker 1: in law. There's no evidence really of any interaction between 261 00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:05,680 Speaker 1: the two of them, So it's hard to say except 262 00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:07,960 Speaker 1: beyond what I was able to find is that there 263 00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:10,920 Speaker 1: are things that Mary did not do. But on the 264 00:15:10,920 --> 00:15:14,040 Speaker 1: other hand, the only time she really ever left Fredericksburg 265 00:15:14,120 --> 00:15:16,040 Speaker 1: after she settled there in the house at George bad 266 00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:19,920 Speaker 1: for her was during the Revolution. There was a threat 267 00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:22,720 Speaker 1: of British invasion of the town and it was evacuated. 268 00:15:23,080 --> 00:15:26,880 Speaker 1: And it may be that she once visited her son, Charles, 269 00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:29,680 Speaker 1: who had lived in what is now West Virginia but 270 00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:33,200 Speaker 1: then was just the Western Frontier. Traveled between Fredericksburg and 271 00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:36,560 Speaker 1: Washington was fifty miles, and fifty miles was a long time. 272 00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:39,400 Speaker 1: Most people in that time period didn't travel more than 273 00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:41,680 Speaker 1: twenty five miles from the place of their birth, and 274 00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:44,960 Speaker 1: Mary her whole life was concentrated there on the northern 275 00:15:44,960 --> 00:15:48,040 Speaker 1: neck of the Middle Peninsula and Fredericksburg. When he was 276 00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:51,280 Speaker 1: in New York attending the affairs of becoming the new 277 00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:54,440 Speaker 1: President United States and assembling the new national government. And 278 00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:58,320 Speaker 1: when he was told by his nephew that his mother 279 00:15:58,360 --> 00:16:00,480 Speaker 1: had passed away, he did go into a room by 280 00:16:00,560 --> 00:16:03,480 Speaker 1: himself for three hours and was then there alone. And 281 00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:07,080 Speaker 1: I believe he was consuming the grief. And the last 282 00:16:07,080 --> 00:16:10,040 Speaker 1: time he saw her before he went to New York 283 00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:12,360 Speaker 1: to become the first President of States, he went down 284 00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:15,800 Speaker 1: to Fredericksburg to deliver the allowance he brought to her 285 00:16:15,840 --> 00:16:20,000 Speaker 1: every month or two. There were two contemporarious accounts, and 286 00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:22,160 Speaker 1: they both said it was a very, very tender moment 287 00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:24,320 Speaker 1: for both of them. He knew she was dying of cancer. 288 00:16:24,760 --> 00:16:28,440 Speaker 1: She knew she was dying of breast cancer. She basically said, 289 00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:31,200 Speaker 1: you've been a good son. I honor you, I approve 290 00:16:31,240 --> 00:16:32,640 Speaker 1: of what you're doing. I think what you're doing in 291 00:16:32,680 --> 00:16:35,440 Speaker 1: the country is wonderful, and I'm so proud of you. 292 00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:39,680 Speaker 1: And I'm paraphrasing here, but clearly she let him know 293 00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:45,000 Speaker 1: that she was proud of him. Next, George's father leaves 294 00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:48,120 Speaker 1: him very farm and in his will, but his mother 295 00:16:48,400 --> 00:17:06,840 Speaker 1: refuses to give him the property. Does he buy her 296 00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:10,320 Speaker 1: a farm? No, just the opposite. That was also a 297 00:17:10,320 --> 00:17:15,320 Speaker 1: source of contention Augustine. In his will, it's specifically left 298 00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:18,399 Speaker 1: Fairy Farm to George, and George was to get it 299 00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:20,679 Speaker 1: when he reached the age of majority. The only problem 300 00:17:20,840 --> 00:17:23,000 Speaker 1: was is that he reached the age of majority and 301 00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:25,920 Speaker 1: Mary wouldn't give it to him. She held on to 302 00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:28,480 Speaker 1: it for years and it became a source of contention 303 00:17:28,520 --> 00:17:30,679 Speaker 1: between the two of them. And you would say, my 304 00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:32,760 Speaker 1: father left this to me, you have to sign the 305 00:17:32,760 --> 00:17:35,080 Speaker 1: paperwork to give it to me, and she just kept 306 00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:37,720 Speaker 1: dragging her feet and dragging her feet. No. He bought 307 00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:42,000 Speaker 1: her the house in Fredericksburg in which she lived from 308 00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:45,280 Speaker 1: middle age on to her elderly years, and it's still 309 00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:48,480 Speaker 1: there Today's still a tourist attraction. It's a nice house. 310 00:17:48,560 --> 00:17:51,119 Speaker 1: It's a modest it's nothing like Mount Vernon. It's a 311 00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:55,479 Speaker 1: nice house with two or three bedrooms and maybe twenty 312 00:17:55,520 --> 00:17:58,800 Speaker 1: five hundred three thousand square feet at the most. Had 313 00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:01,480 Speaker 1: a garden out back, a place where she would go 314 00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:04,080 Speaker 1: and pray and read and meditate, things like that. They 315 00:18:04,080 --> 00:18:07,680 Speaker 1: had a little stable out back for her carriage. Trying 316 00:18:07,720 --> 00:18:11,919 Speaker 1: to write these stories, this is most difficult. Imagine writing 317 00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:14,760 Speaker 1: a book about somebody is like buying a one thousand 318 00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:17,639 Speaker 1: piece jigsaw puzzle and bringing it home and opening it 319 00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:20,119 Speaker 1: up and dumping it out only discover that three hundred 320 00:18:20,119 --> 00:18:22,600 Speaker 1: pieces or missing. Now you gotta try to put it 321 00:18:22,640 --> 00:18:24,560 Speaker 1: together with seven hundred pieces of missing. When that was 322 00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:27,840 Speaker 1: the problem with putting together a story about Marry Ball Washington. 323 00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:31,119 Speaker 1: The significant gaps, and so I have to leave them silent. 324 00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:33,719 Speaker 1: But just as an example how much we don't know 325 00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:37,080 Speaker 1: about her to this day, nobody knows where Mary Ball 326 00:18:37,119 --> 00:18:40,800 Speaker 1: Washington is buried. She's buried somewhere there in Fredericksburg, but 327 00:18:40,840 --> 00:18:43,920 Speaker 1: nobody knows where her grave site is. Nobody knows when 328 00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:47,639 Speaker 1: she was born. Was that deliberate? Did they want to 329 00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:51,879 Speaker 1: keep it anonymous? No, But she passed away. She was 330 00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:55,440 Speaker 1: the mother of the most celebrated hero in the history 331 00:18:55,440 --> 00:19:00,159 Speaker 1: of Western civilization. You know when Washington turned back in 332 00:19:00,359 --> 00:19:05,679 Speaker 1: his sword in Annapolis, gave a speech and conceded power, 333 00:19:06,119 --> 00:19:09,159 Speaker 1: and went back to his farm. When King George the 334 00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:11,600 Speaker 1: Third was told of this, he said, if Washington really 335 00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:14,160 Speaker 1: did that, he would be regarded as the greatest man 336 00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:17,960 Speaker 1: in the world. And that's exactly what Washington did. But 337 00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:22,600 Speaker 1: there are significant gaps in the history of Mary Ball Washington. 338 00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:26,200 Speaker 1: So my point is he was obviously very celebrated parades 339 00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:28,960 Speaker 1: and banquets and all these other things, and you know, 340 00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:32,480 Speaker 1: paintings of him everywhere, and the city of Washington is 341 00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:35,879 Speaker 1: named after him. In his lifetime, his mother would have 342 00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:38,399 Speaker 1: been celebrated to and she was celebrated, so there'd be 343 00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:43,520 Speaker 1: no reason to hide her remains. In fact, it would 344 00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:46,240 Speaker 1: be just the opposite. Would be something to memorialize and 345 00:19:46,359 --> 00:19:49,359 Speaker 1: something to celebrate and something to make great tribute to 346 00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:52,879 Speaker 1: would be the grave site of the mother of the 347 00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:56,320 Speaker 1: father of the United States of America. The history is 348 00:19:56,320 --> 00:20:00,359 Speaker 1: completely silent on why nobody knows where she's buried, and 349 00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:04,119 Speaker 1: there are other gaps in the history of Mary Ball Washington. Well, listen, 350 00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:07,040 Speaker 1: I think the level of research you did to track 351 00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:11,000 Speaker 1: down all the various pieces is amazing. It's always a 352 00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:12,840 Speaker 1: great treasure to me to be able to call you 353 00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:15,320 Speaker 1: friend and to be able to have this kind of 354 00:20:15,359 --> 00:20:18,560 Speaker 1: intellectual conversation. Thank you so much, New thank you for 355 00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:23,200 Speaker 1: this time. I've known Craig Shirley for many years going 356 00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:25,600 Speaker 1: back to the Reagan era, but I got really close 357 00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:27,119 Speaker 1: to him when he interviewed me for a book he 358 00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:31,520 Speaker 1: was writing about me entitled Citizen Nut. We discussed Citizen 359 00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:36,320 Speaker 1: new newtsintercircle dot com. It's a subscription service where I 360 00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:39,960 Speaker 1: offer insights and commentary on the issues that matter to me. 361 00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:47,920 Speaker 1: Most joined Today and Newtsintercircle dot com. You can read 362 00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:51,040 Speaker 1: more about Mary Ball Washington and see an accerpt from 363 00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:56,200 Speaker 1: Craig Shirley's book on our show page at newtsworld dot com. 364 00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:59,760 Speaker 1: Newts World is produced by Yinglish three sixty and iHeartMedia. 365 00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:05,080 Speaker 1: Our executive producer is Debbie Myers and our producer is 366 00:21:05,119 --> 00:21:08,320 Speaker 1: Garnsey Slam. The artwork for the show was created by 367 00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:12,800 Speaker 1: Steve Pendley. Please email me with your comments at newt 368 00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:17,359 Speaker 1: and newtsworld dot com. If you've been enjoying Newtsworld, I 369 00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:20,199 Speaker 1: hope you'll go to Apple Podcast and both rate us 370 00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:23,720 Speaker 1: with five stars and give us a review so others 371 00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:30,400 Speaker 1: can learn what it's all about on the next episode 372 00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:33,760 Speaker 1: of Newtsworld. The next episode in our series on the 373 00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:38,240 Speaker 1: two thousand and twenty election, Super Tuesday, is on Tuesday, 374 00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:43,080 Speaker 1: March third. It's significant because one third of all Democratic 375 00:21:43,119 --> 00:21:47,560 Speaker 1: delegates are allocated in a single day fourteen states, along 376 00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:51,840 Speaker 1: with American Samoa and Democrats living in other countries. Vote 377 00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:56,919 Speaker 1: on this day. Whichever Canada wins California with four hundred 378 00:21:56,920 --> 00:22:00,800 Speaker 1: and fifteen Democratic delegates and Texas with two hundred and 379 00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:04,960 Speaker 1: twenty eight Democratic delegates will achieve momentum towards the one thousand, 380 00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:09,480 Speaker 1: nine hundred and ninety delegates needed to win the Democratic nomination. 381 00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:13,480 Speaker 1: We'll take a look at Super Tuesday results and predict 382 00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:19,040 Speaker 1: the Democratic front runner. I'm Nut Gangwich. This is nuts World.