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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 2: Breaking news tonight, a stunning UGA lawsuit that found brutally

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Speaker 2: beaten and her smoldering off campus apartment. Good evening, I'm

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Speaker 2: Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being

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Speaker 2: with us.

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Speaker 1: I want people to know that prayers work.

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Speaker 3: Don't ever stop praying, don't ever stop having a hope

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Speaker 3: in your heart, because it can't happen. And I pray

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Speaker 3: today for the Coleman family and for all the others

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Speaker 3: with cold cases that they will get some answers as well.

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Speaker 3: Please think of our terrans sometimes and the remarkable person

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Speaker 3: she would have become. Hers was a life so full

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Speaker 3: of promise.

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Speaker 2: You know, I thought I knew it all about grief

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Speaker 2: and mourning when my fiance was murdered many years ago,

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Speaker 2: just before wedding. But now that I have children, I

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Speaker 2: cannot imagine the strength it took Virginia Baker to stand

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Speaker 2: behind that podium and talk about her daughter.

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Speaker 1: Oh my stars, beautiful, smart as a whip.

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Speaker 2: She went she had a double major in undergrad that's

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Speaker 2: not easy. Then she goes to law school to become

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Speaker 2: a prosecutor. But then she changes her mind midstream and says,

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Speaker 2: you know, I want to be a lawyer, very badly,

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Speaker 2: but in something happier than violent crime. And then she

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Speaker 2: focused on real estate, just eating it up, just brilliant,

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Speaker 2: crackling with intelligence. And then to see her mother behind

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Speaker 2: that podium talking about trying to solve her murder case again,

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Speaker 2: thank you for being with us. What happened? How did

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Speaker 2: this beautiful first year law student end up dead, brutally

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Speaker 2: attacked and a smoldering apartment?

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Speaker 1: Listen?

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Speaker 4: Just after returning to classes for the spring semester, Tara

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Speaker 4: Baker heads to the law library for a study session

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Speaker 4: with a friend. By seven thirty pm, the friend is

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Speaker 4: ready to give it up and leaves Baker to keep working.

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Speaker 4: At a quarter to ten, Baker calls her friend from

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Speaker 4: the library to make sure she got home safe, also

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Speaker 4: mentioning she plans to leave by ten pm. Baker's off

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Speaker 4: campus apartment is about a fifteen minute drive from campus.

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Speaker 4: Baker's two roommates left earlier that evening for a weekend

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Speaker 4: trip out of town. Friday morning, Baker misses her nine

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Speaker 4: thirty class.

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Speaker 2: Okay, right there, how much time are we losing? Because

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Speaker 2: she is supposed to come home from law school library,

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Speaker 2: but nobody realized something is a miss until she missus

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Speaker 2: class nine thirty am. And can I tell you from experience,

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Speaker 2: you don't want to miss a law school class because

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Speaker 2: if you miss the class, you get so far behind.

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Speaker 1: It moves so rapidly.

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Speaker 2: She misses the class, and right there everybody knows something

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Speaker 2: is horribly wrong with me. An all star panel to

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Speaker 2: make sense of what we know right now, But straight

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Speaker 2: out first to Cheryl McCollum, joining us, director of the

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Speaker 2: Cold Case Research Institute, star of a hit series podcast,

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Speaker 2: Zone seven, more important for my purposes. She is a

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Speaker 2: forensic expert, and it's actually joining us from her patrol card.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for making time, Cheryl McCollums. Cheryl, does it

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Speaker 2: never end? You and I were both just at Uga

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Speaker 2: campus investigating the Lake and Riley case where Lake and

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Speaker 2: was out jogging in.

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Speaker 1: Broad daylight, broad daylight?

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Speaker 2: And why do I emphasize that it shows the brazenness

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Speaker 2: of the defendant to attack in broad daylight. That said

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Speaker 2: Cheryl McCollum. It's like college campuses. I mean, think of

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Speaker 2: Ted Bundy, Okay, in the Cayomega House. It's like they're

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Speaker 2: hunting grounds for killers.

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Speaker 5: Nancy killers know that these kids are normally this the

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Speaker 5: first time they're away from their parents. It's the first

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Speaker 5: time they're away from their home. Chances are they don't

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Speaker 5: have any kind of weapon. Most of them don't have

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Speaker 5: any kind of dog or alarm system. They're either in

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Speaker 5: a dorm or a rental house, so they are somewhat

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Speaker 5: more vulnerable than the rest of society in a way.

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Speaker 5: They also know that a lot of times they stay

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Speaker 5: out late. So now they're coming and going, like in

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Speaker 5: Terra's case, from the library by herself, entering her home

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Speaker 5: by herself. If that house had been under any kind

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Speaker 5: of surveillance, they possibly know she's entering that home now alone.

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Speaker 2: Just this girl's life was just starting. She gets into

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Speaker 2: law school. She's full of hopes and dreams. She's studying.

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Speaker 2: This is not a girl hanging out at a bar,

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Speaker 2: not judging, not on the corner of the street trying

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Speaker 2: to score a five bag of pot or crack. This

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Speaker 2: is a girl studying at ten o'clock at night. And

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Speaker 2: now the next thing we know, she misses class. What

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Speaker 2: happens next?

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Speaker 6: Listen In the mid morning hours of January nineteenth, Athens,

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Speaker 6: Clark County firefighters are called to an apartment fire at

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Speaker 6: one sixty Fawn Drive. Firefighters break down a locked door

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Speaker 6: to access to the unit and find a fire had

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Speaker 6: broken out in the bedroom and burn through the roof.

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Speaker 6: Among the rubble, firefighters discover the body of a young

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Speaker 6: woman later identified as first year law student Tara Louise Baker,

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Speaker 6: again joining me.

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Speaker 2: An all star panel, but in addition to Cheryl McCollum

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Speaker 2: joining US, doctor Angela Arnold is here renowned psychiatrist joining

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Speaker 2: us out of the Atlanta jurisdiction. Just voted my Buckhead's

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Speaker 2: best psychiatric practice of twenty twenty three.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 2: And she worked at Grady Memorial Hospital. Whenever I needed

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Speaker 2: a witness or a defendant, I would go straight to

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Speaker 2: either the Fulton County Jail or Grady, because somebody would

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Speaker 2: have been shot or sliced, have a hole in their legs, something,

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Speaker 2: and they'd be at Grady. My point is never a

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Speaker 2: lack of business at Grady Memorial Hospital. They've saved a

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Speaker 2: lot of lives there. So this doctor has seen her

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Speaker 2: share of cases. Doctor Angela Arnold, you know what's so

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Speaker 2: jarring for me in this case is that maybe I'm projecting.

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Speaker 1: When I learned about Keith's murder.

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Speaker 2: But here is a perfectly normal day, A beautiful young girl,

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Speaker 2: a one l first year law student.

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Speaker 1: She's studying.

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Speaker 2: Everything's fine, and all of a sudden she misses class.

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Speaker 2: Now I find out she's dead and a burned out

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Speaker 2: apartment off campus, and not in a bad area off campus,

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Speaker 2: a good area off campus, low crime rate. The dichotomy,

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Speaker 2: the jarring dichotomy between everything's fine, she's skipping out in

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Speaker 2: the front door of the library and now she's in

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Speaker 2: a burned out apartment.

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Speaker 7: Dead well, and Nancy, I think that what that makes

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Speaker 7: everyone feel is so unsafe. So you know, you go along,

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Speaker 7: like you said. She had started her spring semester. This

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Speaker 7: happened on January the nineteenth, and everybody sort of settled in.

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Speaker 7: They're settled into their routine, they're settled into their new

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Speaker 7: place where they live, and she's going along studying. She

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Speaker 7: felt safe leaving the library at ten o'clock at night

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Speaker 7: and going home. And now there's going to be a

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Speaker 7: sense that no one is safe because this could happen

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Speaker 7: to anyone, regardless of what neighborhood you live in.

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Speaker 2: Angie Arnold, You're right, that's exactly what it is. Because

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Speaker 2: very often, and I've discussed this with you many many times,

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Speaker 2: we as the public, we look at a crime. Let's

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Speaker 2: just take for instance, Molly Tibbets, who is out jogging

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Speaker 2: and was attacked and murdered.

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Speaker 1: People say, oh, she shouldn't.

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Speaker 2: Have been out jogging on a remote rural road. What

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Speaker 2: was she thinking? Or cornavitronto. We say, wow, she should

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Speaker 2: have jog with her dad. Why was she just wearing

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Speaker 2: a jogging bra not a shirt? Why does she have earbudsip?

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Speaker 2: We think of ways to differentiate ourselves from the victim,

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Speaker 2: to make ourselves feel safe in our little bubble.

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Speaker 1: But that's absolutely not true, doctor Angie.

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Speaker 7: Right. And you know people think, well, you know, if

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Speaker 7: I live behind these gates, or if I live in

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Speaker 7: a safe neighborhood, or you know, oh I would never

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Speaker 7: come home at night at ten o'clock by myself from library.

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Speaker 7: Well why wouldn't you. That's what law students do. Law

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Speaker 7: students state this was This was just a crime. She

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Speaker 7: was in the right place at the wrong time. Nancy,

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Speaker 7: And I'm going to tell you something. This is because

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Speaker 7: this is what everyone needs to remember. Sociopaths live amongst us,

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Speaker 7: So we really all we need to have, we need

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Speaker 7: to keep. We always need to keep our eyes and

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Speaker 7: ears open because sociopaths live amongst us and they don't

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Speaker 7: walk around with signs on themselves.

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Speaker 2: Okay, joining me now, Alexisterestchuk crime Ononline dot Com investigative

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Speaker 2: reporter with a unique insight on this case because.

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Speaker 1: She also attended UGA.

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Speaker 2: She knows where the law library is, she knows where

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Speaker 2: the parking lots are, she knows where the off campus

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Speaker 2: housing is. Bring me up to this point, Alexis Terrestchuk.

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Speaker 2: Before we go to our expert firefighter and EMT Cole

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Speaker 2: brought Alexis, bring me up to this point.

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Speaker 1: What happened?

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Speaker 8: So she is studying at the law library. Now, the

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Speaker 8: law library at Georgia is different than the main library.

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Speaker 8: It's smaller, it's much more quiet. They're obviously less students.

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Speaker 8: It's a great place to get your work done. And

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Speaker 8: this is where she was. She calls her her friend

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Speaker 8: was studying with her. That's what you do. You go

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Speaker 8: as partners. You don't do anything alone. The friend says,

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Speaker 8: I need to go. It's time for me to leave.

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Speaker 8: She's even, she's so responsible. She tells her friend, I'm

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Speaker 8: going to contact you when you get home. She calls

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Speaker 8: her friend from the library just to make sure that

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Speaker 8: she got home safely, and then she tells her friend,

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Speaker 8: I'm going to leave here about ten o'clock and that

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Speaker 8: is the last anybody ever heard of her. So she

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Speaker 8: leaves the law library and she goes to her home.

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Speaker 8: As you said, it was about a fifteen minute drive,

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Speaker 8: which isn't that far, and happens a nice neighborhood. She's

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Speaker 8: got a rental home, and that is where the firefighters

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Speaker 8: were called.

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Speaker 1: Several hours later.

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Speaker 8: There was a fire in the apartment. Nothing could have

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Speaker 8: given them a clue that inside that she would have

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Speaker 8: been in their murder.

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Speaker 2: Joining me right now, Arson Expert Firefighter EMT. Nicole brock Nicole,

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Speaker 2: thank you for being with us, having prosecuted many many

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Speaker 2: arsons in Fulton County myself, for they're very difficult, and

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Speaker 2: I'll tell you why, because first you've got to prove

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Speaker 2: a crime even happened. You've got to prove that a

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Speaker 2: fire was intentionally set, that somebody didn't leave a gas

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Speaker 2: stove on or the oven on, or dropped a cigarette

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Speaker 2: on a blanket, and there are ways to determine that.

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Speaker 1: Now, when you find.

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Speaker 2: A dead body dead by other means than by fire

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Speaker 2: or asphyxiation, that's the big red flag that the fire

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Speaker 2: was to cover up a dead body. But very often

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Speaker 2: you cannot get a cost of death a COEOD on

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Speaker 2: a burned body. That's when we're going to go to

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Speaker 2: doctor Kendall Crowns to explain that. But Nicole brought several

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Speaker 2: things jumped down at me. The firefighters had to break

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Speaker 2: down a locked door to access her unit, the fire

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Speaker 2: broke out in her bedroom and burned up through the roof.

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Speaker 2: That tells me based on the accelerant pattern, and where

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Speaker 2: the fire burned more intensely or did the most damaged,

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Speaker 2: that's where the fire started.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Nicole Brock break it down for me. Yes, So absolutely,

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Speaker 1: you're right.

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Speaker 9: Location of the fire is incredibly one of our most

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Speaker 9: i would say intense ways of looking at fires and

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Speaker 9: determining whether it's an arson or nationally created fire. Saying

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Speaker 9: someone's smoking in the bed and she's clearly not a smoker,

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Speaker 9: so that rules that out. There are no space heaters

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Speaker 9: in the room, so that wild rule things out. And

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Speaker 9: you're absolutely right. An accelerant pattern is the key way

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Speaker 9: to determine whether or not a fire has broken out

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Speaker 9: from an arson, you know, if it's an intentionally set fire.

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Speaker 9: So coming into the lot behind the locked door and

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Speaker 9: the fire starting off in the bedroom, it's a telltale

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Speaker 9: sign that this is an arson. This is an arson

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Speaker 9: situation to begin with. And you're here, you're correct too.

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Speaker 9: When go into a building, we don't go in with

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Speaker 9: the intention or the thought that whether or not this

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Speaker 9: is a arson related fire. We just go in, you know,

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Speaker 9: with the job and intent of extinguishing the fire. It's

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Speaker 9: not until after everything is said and done and we're

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Speaker 9: you know, we're concluded and we've extinguished the fire that

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Speaker 9: we're actually now looking for an exact cause. But do

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Speaker 9: know that when we walk in and we know that

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Speaker 9: there is a fire in a particular space in place,

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Speaker 9: it's immediately we und we understand that this is an

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Speaker 9: arsenal related situation.

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Speaker 2: Man Nicole brought would all love to put you on

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Speaker 2: the stand on direct examination. Okay, when you go into

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Speaker 2: a fire seam and you're trying to determine.

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Speaker 1: Was this intentionally set or not?

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Speaker 2: You mentioned accelerant pattern accelerant that could be toiluling like

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Speaker 2: fingernaut policy remover. It could be gasoline, which leaves an

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Speaker 2: intense smell even though.

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Speaker 1: It's burned up.

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Speaker 2: But what do you see with the naked eye if

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Speaker 2: there has been an accelerant port on the floor.

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Speaker 9: So you will see the v pattern, and you will

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Speaker 9: see charring more in one area, and there's just a

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Speaker 9: pattern that goes with the actual fire behavior.

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Speaker 1: That's a part of fire behavior.

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Speaker 9: So you're looking for that, and you're looking for if

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Speaker 9: there's one space that's more intensely burned than others. And

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Speaker 9: also again we're going back to location. A lot of

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Speaker 9: criminals believe that for some reason I don't know, and

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Speaker 9: maybe because it used to work back in the day,

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Speaker 9: but a lot of arsonists believe that if I burned

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Speaker 9: this up, then it erases all sense of evidence, which

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Speaker 9: is incorrect. Even when it comes to DNA, it's been

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Speaker 9: proven that DNA, despite the intense temperatures that a fire

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Speaker 9: will burn at, DNA will still be discovered.

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Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace, don't.

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Speaker 10: Let her story be that of the girl that was

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Speaker 10: killed in Athens that day in two thousand and one.

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Speaker 1: She was so much more than that.

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Speaker 10: Let it be about the story of who she was

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Speaker 10: smart loyal, kind and even maybe a tad bitshy. She

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Speaker 10: was a friend, a classmate, a sister, and most importantly,

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Speaker 10: she was a beloved daughter.

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Speaker 2: You are hearing there Tarah Baker's brother speaking the strength

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Speaker 2: that must have taken that family to stand up and speak,

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Speaker 2: specifically the mother who continues to talk about the person

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Speaker 2: Tara could have been had she not been bludgeoned, dead,

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Speaker 2: raped and then set on fire and her off campus apartment.

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Speaker 1: She was a one l a first year law student.

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Speaker 1: What more do we know?

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Speaker 2: We know the frame of the mind of the killer

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Speaker 2: who had the wherewithal to try and hide the evidence

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Speaker 2: by burning it up very often when called red handed,

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Speaker 2: which this guy was not. You will look back and

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Speaker 2: you will see this is a history of murder suspects

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Speaker 2: that they, if they know what they're doing, try to

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Speaker 2: hide the evidence that leaves them in the position of

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Speaker 2: having no way to claim insanity. The insanity test in

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Speaker 2: our country is based on old common law brought here

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Speaker 2: from Great Britain, and it is called the old McNaughton test.

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Speaker 2: Simply put, did the defendant know right from wrong at

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Speaker 2: the time of the incident? And I would argue yes,

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Speaker 2: or why else? Try to dispose of the evidence, joining

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Speaker 2: me an all star panel. But I want to remind

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Speaker 2: you of another and much more famous case, the case

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Speaker 2: of Teresa Halback. I say her name because she was

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Speaker 2: the murder victim. The defendant tried to render down to

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Speaker 2: nothing by burning her. All that was left of her

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Speaker 2: were the studs on the back of her daisy for winds,

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Speaker 2: blue jeans, and some teeth.

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Speaker 1: But guess what those teeth had DNA in them.

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Speaker 2: You may know the name of the killer better because

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Speaker 2: he was made famous eMedia Darling Stephen Avery, may he

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Speaker 2: wrot in Hell, the star of Making a Murderer.

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Speaker 1: That made its debut on Netflix. Listen.

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Speaker 6: Stephen Avery is arrested and charged with the murder of

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Speaker 6: Teresa Halback after investigators find his DNA and bloodstains found

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Speaker 6: in Haulbacks Toyota wrap four and Teresa Halbacks charred bone

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Speaker 6: fragments in a burn pit near Avery's home. Stephen Avery

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Speaker 6: becomes the subject of a documentary project called Making a

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Speaker 6: Murderer that airs on Netflix. Avery claims he's being set

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Speaker 6: up by local officials because of the lawsuit he files

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Speaker 6: against the county and county officials. Stephen Avery is found

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Speaker 6: guilty of intentional homicide and has sentenced to life imprisonment

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Speaker 6: without the possibility of parole in the murder of Teresa Halback.

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Speaker 2: And we've never heard the end of it, thanks Netflix.

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Speaker 2: Her teeth and studs off of her jeans are found

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Speaker 2: in the defendant's backyard of his auto salvage business.

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Speaker 1: His relatives and friends say he burned the fire pit and.

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Speaker 2: Started all night long. Teresa Hallback worked for something like

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Speaker 2: an Auto Trader magazine, and he has specifically requested her

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Speaker 2: creepy to come out and take photos of some of

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Speaker 2: his cars for the Auto Trader. That's the last time

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Speaker 2: she was seen alive after his defense of an elaborate setup,

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Speaker 2: kind of like OJ Simpson did. He was found guilty,

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Speaker 2: but then entered Netflix, who only showed portions of evidence

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Speaker 2: that tended to exonerate him instead.

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Speaker 1: Of the full story.

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Speaker 2: Joining me right now to focus not on Teresa Hallback,

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Speaker 2: but on this case Tara Baker. Doctor Kendall Crowns. I'm

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Speaker 2: sure you know his name, all of you legal eagles.

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Speaker 2: He's a renowned chief medical examiner. That's not easy to

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Speaker 2: become chief medical examiner when you're in charge of a

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Speaker 2: lot of brilliant, MDS, how'd you get to the top

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Speaker 2: of that heap? Doctor Kendall Crown's chief medical examiner, Terrence County.

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Speaker 2: That's Fort Worth and he is a lecturer at the

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Speaker 2: Burnett School of Medicine at TCU, Texas Christian University. Doctor

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Speaker 2: Kendall Crowns, A lot of questions for you before we

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Speaker 2: bring in our DNA expert Sharyl A Point. Doctor Kendall Crowns.

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Speaker 2: How hot does it have to be to totally burn

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Speaker 2: a body, to render it down till there's nothing left teeth?

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Speaker 11: You would have to get the fire extremely hot for that,

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Speaker 11: at several hundred degrees, probably close to one thousand, because

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Speaker 11: you can't really a crematorium can burn down a body.

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Speaker 11: Usually when we see people who try to burn bodies

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Speaker 11: without a crematorium, the ones that are successful get a

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Speaker 11: high amount of heat, usually using tires. The best one

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Speaker 11: I've ever seen is an old newspaper van that was

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Speaker 11: delivering newspapers.

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Speaker 12: They lit that on fire and burn that person up.

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Speaker 11: You have to have a lot of combustible material to

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Speaker 11: overcome the body's water content to be able to burn

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Speaker 11: someone completely down to teeth.

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Speaker 2: Cases I've tried before and correct me if I'm wrong.

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Speaker 2: In Doctor Kendl Crowns, a temperature and a crematorium to

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Speaker 2: totally turn a body to ashes, making it impossible to

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Speaker 2: get DNA from just ashes. Is fourteen hundred to eighteen

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Speaker 2: hundred degrees fahrenheit and fires.

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Speaker 1: I think about your oven.

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Speaker 2: You rarely get over four hundred and fifty degrees in

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Speaker 2: an oven, so it basically has to be at.

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Speaker 1: Crematorium levels and temperature levels.

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Speaker 2: I don't know that that can be duplicated or replicated

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Speaker 2: outside of a crematorium, I mean, can it, Doctor Kendl Crowns.

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Speaker 12: So it's very difficult, but it can be done.

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Speaker 11: But usually you have to dig a pretty good sized

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Speaker 11: pit and have a lot of combustible material and keep

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Speaker 11: working at it to burn everything away.

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Speaker 12: So, like I said, a.

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Speaker 11: Couple of times I've seen them be successful. They've used

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Speaker 11: a lot of tires, newspaper. And then one time it

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Speaker 11: was a bed mattress in a a metal shack, so

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Speaker 11: the shack itself kept the heat in and then the

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Speaker 11: mattress burned so heavily it brought the temperature of the

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Speaker 11: shack up to a very high level.

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Speaker 2: Shout out to Cheryl McCollum joining us who has just

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Speaker 2: returned from the UGA campus where she walked the campus.

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Speaker 1: As it relates to the murder.

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Speaker 2: Of another young and beautiful UGA co ed, listen.

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Speaker 13: On February twenty second, twenty twenty four, at approximately twelve

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Speaker 13: seven pm, the University of Georgia Police Department received a

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Speaker 13: call from an individual concern for a friend who had

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Speaker 13: gone jogging at the inner.

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Speaker 12: Mirror of fields.

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Speaker 13: Our officers responded to that area and immediately began a

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Speaker 13: search of the area to attempt to locate the individual.

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Speaker 13: Officers located the individuals in the area behind Lake Herrick

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Speaker 13: at approx. Twelve thirty eight. The individual was unconscious and

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Speaker 13: not breathing and had visible injuries. Officers immediately began rendering

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Speaker 13: medical Eight emergency medical responders determined that the individual was

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Speaker 13: deceased upon their arrival.

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Speaker 2: You were hearing Chief Jeff Clark at the UGAPG to

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Speaker 2: Cheryl McCollum, We just just lived through Lacnriiley murder. Also,

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Speaker 2: you know, looking on a grad degree, full of potential,

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Speaker 2: her life in front of her, and once again, same

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Speaker 2: mo the victim was attacked, was beaten, was raped, same

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Speaker 2: thing all over again. Victims predators like this defendant.

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Speaker 1: They go to college campuses like their.

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Speaker 2: Wolves out on the serengetti watching the gazelle at the

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Speaker 2: watering hole, and they wait. They wait until one of

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Speaker 2: the victims is alone, like lake and out jogging in

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Speaker 2: broad daylight, like Tara, who's coming out of the law library,

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Speaker 2: right under street lights, in front of God and to everybody,

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Speaker 2: and they pounce.

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Speaker 5: Here's what I want to take away from both of

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Speaker 5: those cases, Nancy. In both of those instances, those women

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Speaker 5: either were checking on somebody or had somebody checking on them.

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Speaker 5: That is really important to me. Lakeland's friend did not wait.

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Speaker 5: She didn't sit around and go well, I guess she

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Speaker 5: decided not to come back or not to go to class.

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Speaker 5: In Tara's case, Tara was actually checking on friend prior

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Speaker 5: to leading the library to make sure she was okay.

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Speaker 5: College campuses, by far, are a safe place. The University

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Speaker 5: of Georgia has their own police department that is outstanding.

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Speaker 5: And if you look at what has happened here two things.

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Speaker 5: In Lakeland's case, they made an arrest so fast, Nancy,

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Speaker 5: everybody was on that thing, as you know, even you

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Speaker 5: you sent me there. In Tara's case, the FBI, the

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Speaker 5: Georgia State Patrol, you know, Athens, Clark County, the UGA Police,

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Speaker 5: the GBI. Everybody came together. And that's what I want

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Speaker 5: perpetrators to, you know, really take witness to they're coming.

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Speaker 5: They're coming for you, whether it's been thirty years or

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Speaker 5: thirty minutes.

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Speaker 2: The comparison between these two young victims, what do we

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Speaker 2: know about Laken to compare to Tara Listen?

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Speaker 4: Lincoln spends four years running cross country track for her

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Speaker 4: high school, River Ridge in Woodstock, Georgia. Her love of

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Speaker 4: running continues during her studies in Athens at the University

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Speaker 4: of Georgia. There, Riley is an active member of Alpha

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Speaker 4: Kyomega sorority, and after earning her undergraduate degree last year,

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Speaker 4: Riley begins her studies to be a nurse.

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Speaker 14: Riley sits out on a morning run. She grabs her phone,

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Speaker 14: telling her roommate that she'll be back after a half

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Speaker 14: run at the UGA campus intermural field. When Riley doesn't

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Speaker 14: return for hours, her roommate calls campus police nine one

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Speaker 14: one at twelve oh seven pm.

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Speaker 2: I mean, Cheryl McCollum, I look for connections. I look

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Speaker 2: for similarities in cases. If you don't know what will happen,

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Speaker 2: look at what has happened. So in this case, you've

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Speaker 2: got two females similar in hairstyle, similar in physicality, they

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Speaker 2: waged about the same, they have many many similarities, both

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Speaker 2: at Uga, both getting a post graduate degree, both of

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Speaker 2: them hard, hard studiers, not partiers. Both of them speak

437
00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:21,399
Speaker 2: to their roommates to identify where they are when they.

438
00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:21,960
Speaker 1: Will be back.

439
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:26,880
Speaker 2: Both of them in a sorority, which makes me wonder

440
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:32,159
Speaker 2: was a sorority house a target Like in the Coyomega

441
00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:39,160
Speaker 2: killings by Ted Bundy, the first victim, Tara Baker, was

442
00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:43,920
Speaker 2: an eighty Pi Alpha Delta Pi. Coincidentally the very first

443
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:50,240
Speaker 2: sorority ever founded in our country, Lake and Riley ki

444
00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:57,119
Speaker 2: Omega Alpha Kyomega member. So the so many similarities in

445
00:27:57,160 --> 00:28:01,080
Speaker 2: this case. Sheryl not necessarily telling me a connection between

446
00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:05,080
Speaker 2: those two cases, but they're telling me what will happen

447
00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:08,120
Speaker 2: in the future. Agree, disagree.

448
00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:13,600
Speaker 5: More than one thing happened to those victims. Blood force, trauma, strangulation,

449
00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:17,560
Speaker 5: a straight edge weapon was used with Tara. Any one

450
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:20,200
Speaker 5: of those things would have and could have killed her.

451
00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:23,960
Speaker 5: You didn't need to do all three with Lakeland. We

452
00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:26,520
Speaker 5: believe that she was hit in the head and then

453
00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:29,679
Speaker 5: strangled again. One of those things could have killed her.

454
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:32,160
Speaker 5: It doesn't take both of those things, so it speaks

455
00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:35,400
Speaker 5: to this type of killer. Both of these victims were

456
00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:38,880
Speaker 5: also ambushed. They were ambushed doing something that they've done

457
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:43,400
Speaker 5: one hundred times. Lakeland jogged all over that city. Tara

458
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:45,760
Speaker 5: went in and out of her house a thousand times.

459
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:46,920
Speaker 12: But when you.

460
00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:51,840
Speaker 5: Are ambushed, you are at a disadvantage from the perpetrator

461
00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:54,000
Speaker 5: because you are not prepared to be in that.

462
00:28:54,080 --> 00:29:03,120
Speaker 1: Fine crime stories with Nancy Grease.

463
00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:11,120
Speaker 2: Joining me crime online dot commyvestigator reporter Alexis Terristic. Alexis

464
00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:14,440
Speaker 2: you and I weren't the Golden State killer case? Do

465
00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:18,160
Speaker 2: you remember him? And when police came to arrest him

466
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:19,960
Speaker 2: so many years later, he goes, wait a minute, I

467
00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:21,040
Speaker 2: got a roast in the oven.

468
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:22,640
Speaker 1: You know what roast?

469
00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:29,320
Speaker 2: My rear end man, This guy had so many rapes, asdomies, murders.

470
00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:32,960
Speaker 2: He had actually been a police officer that they wisely

471
00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:36,840
Speaker 2: got rid of off the force. But what he didn't

472
00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:42,600
Speaker 2: count on is that decades later, somebody like our expert

473
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:44,360
Speaker 2: sheiy LaPoint could.

474
00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:46,120
Speaker 1: Come in and nail him.

475
00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:51,000
Speaker 2: Remember him, He would sneeped, wait like this Purp waited

476
00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:54,920
Speaker 2: on Tara like the purp with lake and Riley waited

477
00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:57,840
Speaker 2: until the right moment when she was running around that

478
00:29:57,960 --> 00:29:58,800
Speaker 2: lake at Uga.

479
00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:01,560
Speaker 1: He waited to to watch to see the husband leave

480
00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:04,320
Speaker 1: the home, and then he would break in.

481
00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:08,800
Speaker 2: He never thought that decades later, somebody like Sheryl A.

482
00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:13,800
Speaker 2: Point could bust him on DNA. Remember Golden State Killer

483
00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:14,959
Speaker 2: Alexis I do.

484
00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:16,880
Speaker 8: And the thing that always cared me the most about

485
00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:19,280
Speaker 8: him is the way that he would climb into bedroom

486
00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:21,800
Speaker 8: windows that were like on ground level in this summer

487
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:24,600
Speaker 8: because people would have their windows open, and then I

488
00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:27,240
Speaker 8: just find that so terrifying, climb in and then attack

489
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:30,480
Speaker 8: like a thirteen year old in the house. He was terrifying,

490
00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:34,400
Speaker 8: terrorized the whole state. But that's exactly what happened here.

491
00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:39,320
Speaker 8: Tara had just left law school, left the library, went home,

492
00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:41,800
Speaker 8: and that's where she was in. She was murdered in

493
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:45,400
Speaker 8: her home. Not well, she may have been murdered somewhere else,

494
00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:47,320
Speaker 8: but it was probably in her home. That's what the

495
00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:48,000
Speaker 8: police have said.

496
00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:50,720
Speaker 1: She was murdered and raped there.

497
00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:55,400
Speaker 2: It does it's not logical to think she was murdered

498
00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:59,560
Speaker 2: and raped elsewhere. Then she transported to her own off

499
00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:05,640
Speaker 2: campus apartment and then stage and the place goes up

500
00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:11,760
Speaker 2: in flames. No, and just as in Golden State Killer,

501
00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:18,800
Speaker 2: the same methodology was used in this case to Sharyl Lapointe,

502
00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:22,840
Speaker 2: Tara Baker's body was incinerated.

503
00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:24,360
Speaker 1: She was burned.

504
00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:29,400
Speaker 2: Guys with me, Cheryl la Point, forensic investigative genetic genealogist

505
00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:35,440
Speaker 2: with DNA Labs International, author of The Gene Hunter. As

506
00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:42,120
Speaker 2: in G E N E. Now, Cheryl Lapointe, you're brilliant,

507
00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:46,840
Speaker 2: we're not. Could you break it down and regular people talk?

508
00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:53,280
Speaker 2: How was the Golden State Killer D'Angelo caught after all

509
00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:53,920
Speaker 2: those years?

510
00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:59,800
Speaker 15: So he was caught using forensic genetic genealogy. They had

511
00:31:59,880 --> 00:32:05,880
Speaker 15: to from crime scenes. That was put into sites that

512
00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:12,520
Speaker 15: we use as genealogists, such as jedmatch, and biological relatives

513
00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:19,200
Speaker 15: were found and family trees were built. You form clusters,

514
00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:23,840
Speaker 15: you look for relatives to match each other, and you

515
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:28,040
Speaker 15: make connections through a family tree to identify these perpetrators.

516
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:31,960
Speaker 2: And that's exactly how this was done. Cheryl A Point,

517
00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:37,040
Speaker 2: author of The gene Hunter. Okay, you're saying family tree.

518
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:42,479
Speaker 2: Everybody has a relative that is all about genealogy, and

519
00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:45,520
Speaker 2: when you look at the family trees that they create,

520
00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:50,239
Speaker 2: it goes not just to your parents, grandparents, great grandparents.

521
00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:52,920
Speaker 1: It goes all the way back.

522
00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:58,640
Speaker 2: And amazingly, I just found out somebody on the Gray

523
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:03,400
Speaker 2: Side fought the Revolutionary War, never any of that. It's

524
00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:07,080
Speaker 2: very difficult to create this elaborate family tree.

525
00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:08,560
Speaker 1: Why do you have to do that?

526
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:11,000
Speaker 2: Then you follow it all the way down and find

527
00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:13,360
Speaker 2: out who was in this area at the time of

528
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:17,800
Speaker 2: the murder, which person connected to this family tree was there?

529
00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:19,320
Speaker 1: So I don't understand.

530
00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:20,600
Speaker 2: Why do you have to go back all the way

531
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:23,480
Speaker 2: to the Revolutionary War to catch a guy that murdered

532
00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:24,200
Speaker 2: Tara Baker.

533
00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:28,160
Speaker 1: So, Nancy, it really every case is different.

534
00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:32,680
Speaker 15: It depends on the actual matches that we have to

535
00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:37,479
Speaker 15: work with, which means who the DNA are connections to

536
00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:43,200
Speaker 15: the perpetrator in these cases, and you know, I may

537
00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:48,080
Speaker 15: have a number of matches and their most recent common

538
00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:52,360
Speaker 15: ancestor may have been a couple back to the early

539
00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:57,480
Speaker 15: eighteen hundreds. And when that is what happens you have

540
00:33:57,600 --> 00:34:01,960
Speaker 15: to figure out who that cup those children are and

541
00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:07,800
Speaker 15: their children are, and it becomes very time consuming. You

542
00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:10,240
Speaker 15: have a lot of people you put in these trees

543
00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:16,080
Speaker 15: because ultimately you're looking for the person who committed this crime,

544
00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:18,800
Speaker 15: who normally is in today's time.

545
00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:21,680
Speaker 2: To Cheryl mccollumy is joining US forensics expert and star

546
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:25,919
Speaker 2: of his own seven podcast, Cheryl. What is also very

547
00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:30,400
Speaker 2: critical as not just a scientist like Cheryl point to

548
00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:35,040
Speaker 2: make sense of everything, but how that evidence is initially

549
00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:39,400
Speaker 2: gathered and kept, gathered and kept.

550
00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:41,839
Speaker 1: How do you gather it and how do you keep it?

551
00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:44,360
Speaker 1: You got to gather it legally and scientifically.

552
00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:48,840
Speaker 5: So in the case of Terra, they clearly had biological evidence,

553
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:52,440
Speaker 5: and we know that because the suspect was charged with sodognty.

554
00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:56,600
Speaker 5: In these cases, when you collect anything biological, whether it's

555
00:34:57,120 --> 00:35:01,480
Speaker 5: seminal fluid, blood, a sweaty jack, whatever it is, you're

556
00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:05,440
Speaker 5: going to keep it in some type of paper, not plastic,

557
00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:10,120
Speaker 5: so it doesn't degrade. They clearly kept it perfectly all

558
00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:13,680
Speaker 5: of these years, so that when technology caught up they

559
00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:17,919
Speaker 5: were able to assess it, develop a profile, and subsequently

560
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:19,120
Speaker 5: then get to the perpetrate.

561
00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:23,719
Speaker 10: We hope that the criminal justice system that Cha believed in.

562
00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:26,080
Speaker 1: Serves justice in the correct way.

563
00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:31,560
Speaker 10: But again remember that this is just a step Her story.

564
00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:34,319
Speaker 1: Isn't finished, The book isn't closed on her.

565
00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:38,160
Speaker 10: If you think about it, the cruel irony is is

566
00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:41,520
Speaker 10: that she was killed twenty three years ago, just before

567
00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:45,319
Speaker 10: her twenty fourth birthday. She's been gone abound the same

568
00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:46,360
Speaker 10: time that she was here.

569
00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:51,680
Speaker 2: This family has been through hell for twenty plus years,

570
00:35:52,160 --> 00:36:00,319
Speaker 2: and finally, because of DNA technology, breaking edge DNA technology

571
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:07,479
Speaker 2: genetic genealogy, we have an answer. The biological evidence as

572
00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:12,480
Speaker 2: police GBI are referring to it as and DNA science

573
00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:19,120
Speaker 2: collaborate with investigation from multiple law enforcement sources. That would

574
00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:25,080
Speaker 2: be the UGA Police, the GBI, the Athens Clark County Police,

575
00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:30,840
Speaker 2: and they solve this case amazingly. Alexis Tereschuk much like

576
00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:35,080
Speaker 2: a Lakenriley Her a defendant had an extensive rap sheet.

577
00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:39,960
Speaker 1: But here this guy before the case was solved.

578
00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:44,600
Speaker 2: After he rapes and murders Tara, he then goes and

579
00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:46,839
Speaker 2: stabs a guy in the neck. I mean his rap

580
00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:48,600
Speaker 2: sheet is prolific.

581
00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:52,800
Speaker 8: Alexis, he has spent he has been in prison two

582
00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:56,800
Speaker 8: separate times. He spent time in prison twice in the

583
00:36:56,880 --> 00:36:57,600
Speaker 8: last twenty years.

584
00:36:57,640 --> 00:37:00,360
Speaker 2: Wait, you think he's been behind bars twice. Let's just

585
00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:03,840
Speaker 2: go all the way back to ninety three battery, battery,

586
00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:06,759
Speaker 2: trespass two thousand and one that had to be jail time.

587
00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:11,360
Speaker 1: Aggravated assault, public indecency like I want to see his

588
00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:12,279
Speaker 1: penis No.

589
00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:19,080
Speaker 2: Twenty eleven, DUY twenty eleven, possession cocaine, another felony thirteen

590
00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:22,920
Speaker 2: obstruction of a cop. Man he's got he's got some

591
00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:26,360
Speaker 2: nerve to attack a cop two thousand and three, another

592
00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:30,160
Speaker 2: felony that carries twenty to life. Possession cocaine inten to

593
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:37,920
Speaker 2: distribute twenty sixteen, DUY twenty eighteen, Terroristic threats twenty nineteen,

594
00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:42,239
Speaker 2: aggravated stalking. Why I wonder if he was stalking in

595
00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:50,160
Speaker 2: the Coyomega house or the law library stalking twenty twenty two, battery,

596
00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:55,719
Speaker 2: And now he's got another line for his resume, Alexis Terschuk.

597
00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:57,520
Speaker 8: And it was like a revolving door with him.

598
00:37:57,560 --> 00:37:58,359
Speaker 1: You know that you just said.

599
00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:01,480
Speaker 8: In March of twenty twenty, he was arrested for battery,

600
00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:03,680
Speaker 8: disorderly conduct and criminal truspass.

601
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:06,520
Speaker 1: He pleaded guilty. Do you know what his punishment was?

602
00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:09,520
Speaker 8: Fifty hours of community service and twelve months probation.

603
00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:12,440
Speaker 1: Okay, what was that for on what offense.

604
00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:15,399
Speaker 8: Simple battery, disorderly conduct and criminal trespass with.

605
00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:19,719
Speaker 1: A record like that? You know to Cheryl McCollum, did

606
00:38:19,719 --> 00:38:20,880
Speaker 1: you have that? Did you hear that?

607
00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:27,000
Speaker 2: After twenty years of violent crimes, some judge, who obviously

608
00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:30,000
Speaker 2: does not know his own rear n from a hole

609
00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:34,520
Speaker 2: in the ground, gives him community service? Like you want

610
00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:40,120
Speaker 2: this guy next to you washing school buses in Athens? George, No, no,

611
00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:43,800
Speaker 2: you know, don't want that. But that's what a judge

612
00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:49,719
Speaker 2: thought was Okay. After he murders Tara, he then stabs

613
00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:54,560
Speaker 2: another guy in the neck. Does it never end?

614
00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:56,160
Speaker 1: Cheryl and Nancy?

615
00:38:56,239 --> 00:38:58,719
Speaker 5: This is one of those things that you have to keep,

616
00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:03,480
Speaker 5: you know, just teaching people. Nobody is gonna rape and

617
00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:07,760
Speaker 5: sodomize and bludgeon and stab to death one time.

618
00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:08,799
Speaker 12: They're not.

619
00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:12,120
Speaker 5: They're not gonna stab this man in the neck and

620
00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:15,560
Speaker 5: never do anything else. You're gonna keep seeing this guy

621
00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:19,439
Speaker 5: over and over and over until somebody says that's enough,

622
00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:22,960
Speaker 5: you're done. You're gonna be put away forever so that

623
00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:25,800
Speaker 5: you can't hurt anybody else.

624
00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:28,960
Speaker 2: Let's take a look at his new charges again. Of

625
00:39:29,080 --> 00:39:33,320
Speaker 2: course there's murder, and now we're learning more about the evidence.

626
00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:34,800
Speaker 1: This is where the DNA comes from.

627
00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:40,960
Speaker 2: Aggravated a sodomy that's either oral or anal rape, first

628
00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:44,680
Speaker 2: degree arson, tampering with evidence that means moving the body

629
00:39:44,719 --> 00:39:46,120
Speaker 2: around or setting the place on.

630
00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:49,640
Speaker 1: Fire, concealing the death. That's the fire, possession of a.

631
00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:54,800
Speaker 2: Firearm or knife during the commission of attempt to commit felonies.

632
00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:59,080
Speaker 2: So was that cod and aggravated assault to doctor Kendall

633
00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:03,560
Speaker 2: Crown's now chief Medical Examiner Terran County. If a body

634
00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:08,239
Speaker 2: has been burned, of all, let me just say soft tissue,

635
00:40:08,520 --> 00:40:10,120
Speaker 2: and that's a nice way of saying.

636
00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:12,040
Speaker 1: Skin that muscle.

637
00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:16,080
Speaker 2: How do you look at skeletonized bones that have been

638
00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:19,640
Speaker 2: through a fire and determine that a knife or a

639
00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:21,400
Speaker 2: blunt instrument was used.

640
00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:24,719
Speaker 11: So there can be marks left by the knives in

641
00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:27,960
Speaker 11: particular on the bones that match up or tool mark

642
00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:29,880
Speaker 11: evidence that can be used to match up to a

643
00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:33,040
Speaker 11: murder weapon. When you see those type of injuries to

644
00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:36,560
Speaker 11: the bone, you know they're not natural injuries. One problem

645
00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:40,279
Speaker 11: with burning of the bodies that can cause fractures or

646
00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:44,680
Speaker 11: fire related fractures. As the body burns, the muscles start

647
00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:48,120
Speaker 11: kind of pulling in into what they call pugilistic posture

648
00:40:48,120 --> 00:40:51,200
Speaker 11: which looks like a boxer but that pulls in and

649
00:40:51,239 --> 00:40:54,240
Speaker 11: that can cause fractures of the long bones.

650
00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:56,560
Speaker 12: The head itself, as it heats up.

651
00:40:56,480 --> 00:40:59,560
Speaker 11: Will burst or explode open and you can get fractures

652
00:40:59,600 --> 00:41:01,719
Speaker 11: that way. So you do have to look at the

653
00:41:01,760 --> 00:41:06,080
Speaker 11: fracture patterns themselves to determine if it's from the fire

654
00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:08,799
Speaker 11: or if it's from blunt injury. Tool Marks, on the

655
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Speaker 11: other hand, are pretty unique, and when you see those, you.

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Speaker 12: Know that that's caused by a tool.

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Speaker 11: But fractures themselves, you have to differentiate between the fire

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Speaker 11: and between blunt force injuries.

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Speaker 2: You know, doctor Kilo Crowns, I could listen to you

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Speaker 2: all day long. I guess I understand about sixty five

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Speaker 2: percent of what you're saying. And I'm going to point

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00:41:29,719 --> 00:41:32,840
Speaker 2: out something about our guests that join us here at

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00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:37,520
Speaker 2: Crime Stories. They're not just talking heads that you dig

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00:41:37,640 --> 00:41:41,920
Speaker 2: up by watching some other network. These are real life heroes,

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Speaker 2: every single one of them.

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Speaker 1: Think about it.

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00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:50,360
Speaker 2: Doctor Angela Arnold, renownced psychiatrist who focuses specifically on women

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00:41:51,080 --> 00:41:56,640
Speaker 2: and their issues and helping so many people and going

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Speaker 2: behind the scene of a crime to tell us why

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00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:06,160
Speaker 2: Sheryl is a world renown geneticist and author. Nicole Brock

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00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:12,680
Speaker 2: firefighter arson expert who runs into the blaze, not away

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00:42:12,719 --> 00:42:17,280
Speaker 2: from the blaze. Cheryl McCollum, who's literally joining us from

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00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:21,799
Speaker 2: the field. Forensic expert doctor Kendall Crown's, Well, what more

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Speaker 2: do I need to say? He's conducted over ten thousand autopsies.

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Speaker 2: Alexis Tereschuk who comes over every detail of a case.

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Speaker 1: Before she reports it. Another case solved? What can we

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Speaker 1: learn from it? Going forward?

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Speaker 2: Our thoughts and prayers with the families of both of

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Speaker 2: these victims, Lincoln and Tara. And now we stop to

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00:42:47,680 --> 00:42:53,720
Speaker 2: remember American hero Lieutenant Milton over Sindez Lieutenant Sindez shot

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00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:59,640
Speaker 2: and killed during police pursued send Benito, Texas, twenty six

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Speaker 2: year that.

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Speaker 1: Of the police force.

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Speaker 2: He leaves behind a grieving wife, Melissa, and his family

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Speaker 2: in Texas. American hero Lieutenant Milton Rissindez. I want to

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Speaker 2: thank all of our guests, are amazing guests for being

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Speaker 2: with us tonight, and to everyone being with us tonight

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Speaker 2: here on Crime Stories tonight and every night. Nancy Gray

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Speaker 2: signing off, good night, friend,