1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,079 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:25,520 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. Hello, welcome back to the show. 5 00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:28,960 Speaker 1: My name is Matt our colleague nol is on Adventures 6 00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:32,519 Speaker 1: and will be returning. They called me Ben. We are 7 00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:36,600 Speaker 1: joined as always with our super producer Paul Mission controlled decond. 8 00:00:36,800 --> 00:00:40,000 Speaker 1: Most importantly, you are you. You are here, and that 9 00:00:40,080 --> 00:00:43,360 Speaker 1: makes this the stuff they don't want you to know. 10 00:00:44,040 --> 00:00:48,320 Speaker 1: It's a lovely Friday midheat wave here in Atlanta, Georgia. 11 00:00:48,479 --> 00:00:53,159 Speaker 1: As we record this, a devastating heat wave is crossing 12 00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:57,280 Speaker 1: the United States. Everybody listening in this in that part 13 00:00:57,320 --> 00:01:01,560 Speaker 1: of the world, please stay hydrated and try to try 14 00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:06,520 Speaker 1: to stay cool in general, you know, metaphorically, figuratively as 15 00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:09,760 Speaker 1: well as physically. But do remember as you're trying to 16 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:13,240 Speaker 1: stay cool, that there is going to be an electricity shortage, 17 00:01:13,560 --> 00:01:16,360 Speaker 1: a power shortage. I mean, we're you're in the midst 18 00:01:16,400 --> 00:01:17,959 Speaker 1: of it right now, especially if you're in the West, 19 00:01:18,160 --> 00:01:21,240 Speaker 1: due to the hydroelectric plants that are some of which 20 00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:24,000 Speaker 1: are not going to be functional if this continues. Some 21 00:01:24,040 --> 00:01:28,320 Speaker 1: of which are at low levels of output. So just 22 00:01:28,480 --> 00:01:31,520 Speaker 1: be careful out there, everyone, Yes, be careful out there. 23 00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:35,600 Speaker 1: We're mentioning this because met to date, you and I 24 00:01:35,840 --> 00:01:41,880 Speaker 1: are escaping our fair metropolis. Uh, and we're traveling to Scotland. 25 00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:45,959 Speaker 1: But we're not in search of a cooler climb. Instead, 26 00:01:46,080 --> 00:01:50,400 Speaker 1: we're in search of answers to a mystery that remains 27 00:01:50,680 --> 00:01:53,760 Speaker 1: uh well as odd as it is to say, it 28 00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:59,120 Speaker 1: remains officially solved, not unsolved, but officially solved in the 29 00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:06,720 Speaker 1: modern day. And this is a incredibly controversial, twisting case. Uh, 30 00:02:06,760 --> 00:02:12,040 Speaker 1: this is too many an ongoing conspiracy. You may have 31 00:02:12,080 --> 00:02:15,120 Speaker 1: seen the headline of today's episode before you began listening, 32 00:02:15,160 --> 00:02:20,320 Speaker 1: and it's simply a question what happened to Willie McCray 33 00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:24,040 Speaker 1: Matt before we start. This is a topic that that 34 00:02:24,120 --> 00:02:26,760 Speaker 1: you found and I was really interested. We haven't talked 35 00:02:26,760 --> 00:02:29,359 Speaker 1: about this before, but I'm really interested to hear how 36 00:02:29,639 --> 00:02:34,000 Speaker 1: how it hit your radar Matt dar radar, Matt radar whenever. Yes, 37 00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:39,440 Speaker 1: Benny was actually a listener suggestion. David sent this to us, 38 00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:43,359 Speaker 1: and I'm not going to read your full message to us, David, 39 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:45,399 Speaker 1: but thank you very much for sending it. Our way, 40 00:02:45,639 --> 00:02:49,560 Speaker 1: because that's why we're doing this episode right now. Yes, yes, 41 00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:54,080 Speaker 1: thanks and cheers to you, David. So here are the facts. 42 00:02:54,840 --> 00:02:59,200 Speaker 1: Before we figure out what happened to Willie McCray, we 43 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:03,520 Speaker 1: have to ask who he was. So who was William McCrae. 44 00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:07,200 Speaker 1: It's a name that a lot of people outside of 45 00:03:07,320 --> 00:03:10,960 Speaker 1: the UK might not be familiar with very much. So 46 00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:14,120 Speaker 1: I had never heard this name before prior to receiving 47 00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:17,200 Speaker 1: that email and then doing the research. But William McCrae 48 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:20,880 Speaker 1: was very well known. He was born May eighteenth, nineteen 49 00:03:20,919 --> 00:03:25,720 Speaker 1: twenty three. He was a politician and attorney or lawyer, 50 00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:30,480 Speaker 1: and he did all kinds of things throughout his career. 51 00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:35,840 Speaker 1: He's very influential person. He was formerly in the military. 52 00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:40,720 Speaker 1: He worked for several different militaries or at least in 53 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:47,080 Speaker 1: different capacities for for different militaries. Military intelligence. Yeah, that's 54 00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:51,880 Speaker 1: one of his specialties. And he was best known towards 55 00:03:51,960 --> 00:03:56,040 Speaker 1: the end of his life as an anti nuclear activist 56 00:03:56,040 --> 00:04:01,000 Speaker 1: politician and attorney. Yeah, and he was. He was a 57 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:04,360 Speaker 1: man with a cause, you know, with several causes. For 58 00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:06,840 Speaker 1: most of his adult life, he was an active member 59 00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:11,360 Speaker 1: of the Scottish National Party. The Scottish National Party, which 60 00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:15,680 Speaker 1: is still around today, of course, pushes for Scotland's independence 61 00:04:15,880 --> 00:04:19,920 Speaker 1: from the United Kingdom as well as membership as its 62 00:04:19,960 --> 00:04:23,320 Speaker 1: own country in the European Union. And if you find 63 00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:26,360 Speaker 1: anything online about the Scottish National Party, it will almost 64 00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:29,440 Speaker 1: always just be abbreviated as the SNP, and it's just 65 00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:32,360 Speaker 1: a treaty as a known thing. If you're reading any 66 00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:37,000 Speaker 1: papers out of the UK or or watching videos, yeah, 67 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:40,800 Speaker 1: the SNP. The The other thing we should note here 68 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:46,919 Speaker 1: is that there are allegations of conspiracy regarding the move 69 00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:51,160 Speaker 1: for Scottish independence. We're gonna keep that for a separate episode, 70 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:55,400 Speaker 1: but right in if you have, if you happen to 71 00:04:55,560 --> 00:04:59,000 Speaker 1: believe that there is something crooked afoot with the move 72 00:04:59,040 --> 00:05:02,600 Speaker 1: for independence, we're with the moves, the allegations that the 73 00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:07,359 Speaker 1: UK is making moves to shut down independence votes and referendums. 74 00:05:08,680 --> 00:05:13,240 Speaker 1: This is something that McCray fought for and fervently believed in. 75 00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:16,599 Speaker 1: He was a big fan of independence in general. He 76 00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:21,479 Speaker 1: had also been a vocal supporter of the Indian independence movement. 77 00:05:22,279 --> 00:05:26,360 Speaker 1: He wrote he literally wrote the Mercantile Law of the 78 00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:31,120 Speaker 1: Country of Israel. He served as the Emeritus professor at 79 00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:35,520 Speaker 1: the University of Haifa in Israel, and his influence on 80 00:05:35,560 --> 00:05:38,760 Speaker 1: that country in particular was so strong that upon his 81 00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:43,240 Speaker 1: death people planted a literal forest in his honor, Like 82 00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:47,960 Speaker 1: they planted three thousand trees for this guy because they 83 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:51,359 Speaker 1: didn't want to forget him. Uh. He was, like you said, Matt. 84 00:05:51,760 --> 00:05:56,640 Speaker 1: He was perhaps best known in in the UK for 85 00:05:56,800 --> 00:06:01,279 Speaker 1: his opposition to actions of the British nuclear lobby or 86 00:06:01,320 --> 00:06:07,080 Speaker 1: the nuclear establishment, particularly the proposed sites of waste dumps 87 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:12,479 Speaker 1: and accusations that members of the nuclear industry were breaking 88 00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:17,839 Speaker 1: the law, especially at the Dunree nuclear site. He was ready, 89 00:06:18,120 --> 00:06:20,760 Speaker 1: in short to fight the powers that be. He attempted 90 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:23,719 Speaker 1: to root out corruption where he saw it and just 91 00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:27,200 Speaker 1: just to humanize this guy, and so you can get 92 00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:30,160 Speaker 1: a sense of how he sounds, fellow conspiracy realists, we'd 93 00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:33,240 Speaker 1: like to play a little clip for you. This is 94 00:06:33,279 --> 00:06:36,600 Speaker 1: Willie McCray himself speaking. He's got kind of a fight 95 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:40,160 Speaker 1: the power vibe. You'll see what we mean, ladies and gentlemen. 96 00:06:40,200 --> 00:06:44,680 Speaker 1: Put it will Latin from this inquiry, trust, I hope 97 00:06:45,160 --> 00:06:47,440 Speaker 1: the all of your level, if you hadn't known ever before, 98 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:51,359 Speaker 1: the all of your level that you don't trust the 99 00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:55,960 Speaker 1: political establishment in Scotland and Britain. That's less than number one. 100 00:06:56,800 --> 00:06:59,560 Speaker 1: There you go, that's right, don't trust him. Guy after 101 00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:03,239 Speaker 1: my own heart, to be honest with you, and he's 102 00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:08,120 Speaker 1: a passionate speaker. He's a passionate policymaker. During his career. 103 00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:11,760 Speaker 1: Is all to say that he led a storied life 104 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:15,320 Speaker 1: and whether or not you agree with him, he consistently 105 00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:19,560 Speaker 1: fought for what he believed to be just causes. If 106 00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:23,280 Speaker 1: Willie McCray was alive today, he would be ninety eight 107 00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:27,480 Speaker 1: years old and in my opinion, he would no doubt 108 00:07:27,480 --> 00:07:31,720 Speaker 1: be still be fighting for Scottish independence. He would be 109 00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:35,880 Speaker 1: fighting against corruption in nuclear industry. But he is sadly 110 00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:39,760 Speaker 1: no longer with us. Willie McCray has passed away, hasn't 111 00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:43,960 Speaker 1: he met? That's correct. He was found inside his volvo. 112 00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:50,440 Speaker 1: It was on April six. He was unresponsive. He did 113 00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:53,640 Speaker 1: have a pulse, but he was unresponsive. He was taken 114 00:07:53,640 --> 00:07:57,520 Speaker 1: to a hospital, then transferred to another hospital where he 115 00:07:57,760 --> 00:08:00,080 Speaker 1: was taken off of life support and he died it 116 00:08:01,120 --> 00:08:08,920 Speaker 1: And really the name Willie McCrae is familiar to a 117 00:08:08,920 --> 00:08:12,920 Speaker 1: lot of people because of the ensuing investigations that occurred 118 00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:17,640 Speaker 1: after he was found there and then died, and allegations 119 00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:22,680 Speaker 1: that something was a miss with the official findings. Yeah. Yeah, 120 00:08:22,840 --> 00:08:25,720 Speaker 1: he's more well known for his death, which is a 121 00:08:26,520 --> 00:08:31,480 Speaker 1: bizarre place to be historically, because folks, you see, despite 122 00:08:31,520 --> 00:08:36,360 Speaker 1: the murky verdict of the official investigation, initially they concluded 123 00:08:36,400 --> 00:08:40,839 Speaker 1: with suicide. Uh, later shifted to kind of undetermined, but 124 00:08:41,200 --> 00:08:44,320 Speaker 1: the powers that be still says say it's suicide. Despite 125 00:08:44,320 --> 00:08:49,840 Speaker 1: those conclusions, a great many people in Scotland, in England, 126 00:08:50,120 --> 00:08:54,680 Speaker 1: in Europe, in the world believe Willie McCray was murdered. 127 00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:59,240 Speaker 1: Here's where it gets crazy. So like like you said, Matt, 128 00:08:59,480 --> 00:09:03,960 Speaker 1: it's April fifth, it's McCray leaves his apartment or what 129 00:09:03,960 --> 00:09:08,000 Speaker 1: you would call a flat in Glasgow at around five 130 00:09:08,520 --> 00:09:12,160 Speaker 1: pm to spend the week at his cottage or a 131 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:16,440 Speaker 1: holiday home at our delve near Dorney. He's working on 132 00:09:16,679 --> 00:09:20,600 Speaker 1: his forthcoming book about the nuclear industry. He's convinced it's 133 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:22,760 Speaker 1: going to be a banger and a lot of his 134 00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:26,599 Speaker 1: supporters and opponents will come to find We're convinced it 135 00:09:26,679 --> 00:09:30,440 Speaker 1: might also be a banker. Uh. This was Easter weekend. 136 00:09:30,920 --> 00:09:34,160 Speaker 1: Just to give you some context, here and one note 137 00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:38,360 Speaker 1: as we continue, we are we We went back and 138 00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:42,720 Speaker 1: forth about correct pronunciations of place names. Uh, now I 139 00:09:42,800 --> 00:09:46,559 Speaker 1: propose we just we we keep our good old American 140 00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:49,280 Speaker 1: accents because I don't want to. I don't want to 141 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:53,760 Speaker 1: accidentally fall into a terrible characterization with Scottish accent. I 142 00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:58,360 Speaker 1: watched too much Mike Myers last night, entirely too much. Understand. 143 00:09:59,040 --> 00:10:01,959 Speaker 1: I will my best to say it the way I've 144 00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:04,280 Speaker 1: heard it and all these videos I've been watching. But 145 00:10:04,400 --> 00:10:07,720 Speaker 1: I will not put on a fake accent. I promise 146 00:10:07,800 --> 00:10:09,760 Speaker 1: you that, which is a shame, because I love our 147 00:10:09,760 --> 00:10:22,240 Speaker 1: Scottish accents. I know, I know, but boy boy, I 148 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:25,640 Speaker 1: love it. Yeah, if we were shout out to so 149 00:10:25,800 --> 00:10:28,960 Speaker 1: I married an X murderer, we're talking about that a 150 00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:32,000 Speaker 1: little bit off air. I really enjoyed that movie. I 151 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:34,680 Speaker 1: think you did, too, met and you had said how 152 00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:37,440 Speaker 1: funny it would be if your son came in with 153 00:10:37,480 --> 00:10:40,720 Speaker 1: a pair of pants. Oh, that would be so great, 154 00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:45,679 Speaker 1: that would be so great. But but yes, because this 155 00:10:45,760 --> 00:10:49,120 Speaker 1: is a serious episode, we we don't in any way 156 00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:52,160 Speaker 1: want to diminish the gravity of these events. And these 157 00:10:52,200 --> 00:10:57,000 Speaker 1: are very heavy things. So McCrea is all set right now, 158 00:10:57,200 --> 00:10:59,480 Speaker 1: we're giving you a version of the story that's going 159 00:10:59,520 --> 00:11:02,480 Speaker 1: to be somewhat non linear. We're gonna go back and 160 00:11:02,559 --> 00:11:05,240 Speaker 1: forth through time, but for now, let's stick with him. 161 00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:09,679 Speaker 1: April five, round thirty pm. He's leaving in his volvo. 162 00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:14,520 Speaker 1: He has not seen again until the morning of April six. 163 00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:18,840 Speaker 1: And this is where to Australian tourists enter the story. 164 00:11:19,160 --> 00:11:22,120 Speaker 1: Alan and Barbara Crow. Okay, so we're there. It's ten 165 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:24,760 Speaker 1: a m. In the morning. We've got these two Australian tourists. 166 00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:28,600 Speaker 1: Barbara Crow, she's really not put off by this strange 167 00:11:28,600 --> 00:11:31,200 Speaker 1: side of something that looks like a car down the 168 00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:34,439 Speaker 1: side of embankment, but something about it, I don't know, 169 00:11:34,760 --> 00:11:39,400 Speaker 1: made her feel a bit strange. Yeah, They're like, I 170 00:11:39,440 --> 00:11:42,480 Speaker 1: don't know the way that thing was angled, where it 171 00:11:42,559 --> 00:11:45,280 Speaker 1: was placed, we should at least go check on it. 172 00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:47,040 Speaker 1: After they were went a few miles down the road, 173 00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:49,800 Speaker 1: they came back and they wanted to just take a look. Right, 174 00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:56,000 Speaker 1: they stopped there and it's about three yards from where 175 00:11:56,200 --> 00:11:59,880 Speaker 1: this object was where they're from, you know, where they're standing, 176 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:03,520 Speaker 1: to where their object is. And Alan took binoculars out. 177 00:12:03,960 --> 00:12:07,319 Speaker 1: So this is key here. They're far enough away that 178 00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:11,440 Speaker 1: Alan took out binoculars to view the thing, whatever that 179 00:12:11,480 --> 00:12:13,920 Speaker 1: object was that they think might be a car down there, 180 00:12:14,640 --> 00:12:19,000 Speaker 1: and it was definitely a car. It was. It was 181 00:12:19,040 --> 00:12:21,840 Speaker 1: in this It was straddling this thing that is known 182 00:12:21,880 --> 00:12:24,120 Speaker 1: as a burn. Something you will hear about a lot 183 00:12:24,160 --> 00:12:25,959 Speaker 1: if you read about the story or if you look 184 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:29,520 Speaker 1: at the documents. It's, um, we're gonna call it like 185 00:12:29,559 --> 00:12:33,679 Speaker 1: a watercourse like a stream, or um a small river, 186 00:12:33,760 --> 00:12:36,359 Speaker 1: a creek, like a tight But it's a very small 187 00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:39,240 Speaker 1: body of water that's leading down into a larger body 188 00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:44,840 Speaker 1: of water. Yeah. Yeah, it's it's the liminal space between 189 00:12:44,880 --> 00:12:48,360 Speaker 1: a large stream or a small river. Uh. This car 190 00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:53,839 Speaker 1: was facing toward Alan Crow, so towards the road, towards 191 00:12:53,880 --> 00:12:57,000 Speaker 1: the road, which is important and so and it also 192 00:12:57,640 --> 00:13:02,040 Speaker 1: looked like someone was inside. And what they saw was 193 00:13:02,880 --> 00:13:07,840 Speaker 1: McCrae's vehicle, a Volvo Estate uh, lying on the more 194 00:13:08,080 --> 00:13:11,520 Speaker 1: a short distance from the junction of two roads, the 195 00:13:11,640 --> 00:13:15,640 Speaker 1: A eight seven. In the A eight eight seven, the 196 00:13:15,679 --> 00:13:20,360 Speaker 1: car was about thirty yards from the roadway. And you know, 197 00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:24,160 Speaker 1: if you're wondering why the Crows were three hundred yards away, 198 00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:26,880 Speaker 1: it's because they stopped at a little pull off site, 199 00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:29,000 Speaker 1: you know, a place where you could get off the 200 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:34,440 Speaker 1: main road. And they instantly thought it like, this looks 201 00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:37,080 Speaker 1: like someone was in a car accident. We need to 202 00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:41,480 Speaker 1: help them. So Barbara stayed by their car and Alan 203 00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:44,439 Speaker 1: Crow ran down to get a closer look, and there 204 00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:49,120 Speaker 1: he found a man who had dried blood on his temple, 205 00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:53,000 Speaker 1: in a disturbing amount of dried blood. And so first 206 00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:56,360 Speaker 1: things first, Alan tries to revive him. You know, he's 207 00:13:56,360 --> 00:13:59,720 Speaker 1: like he reaches out and touches him, and he checks 208 00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:02,880 Speaker 1: and like you said, the guys, I'm responsive, but there 209 00:14:02,960 --> 00:14:06,760 Speaker 1: is a pulse. He grabs his hand, there's no grip back. 210 00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:11,079 Speaker 1: It smells as though the man has urinated and defecated. 211 00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:14,679 Speaker 1: And as Alan is looking around at the interior of 212 00:14:14,679 --> 00:14:18,200 Speaker 1: the vehicle, it looked like rain had been seeping through 213 00:14:18,280 --> 00:14:23,120 Speaker 1: the driver's door window for some amount of time. The 214 00:14:23,280 --> 00:14:25,720 Speaker 1: let's just point out right here that it is McRae's 215 00:14:25,880 --> 00:14:30,120 Speaker 1: right temple, at least according to a lot of things 216 00:14:30,160 --> 00:14:33,840 Speaker 1: I've read, where the dried blood was was on him. 217 00:14:33,880 --> 00:14:36,160 Speaker 1: So you can imagine if you're a tourist in an 218 00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:39,640 Speaker 1: area you're not that familiar with and you don't exactly 219 00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:42,560 Speaker 1: have a smartphone. It is the nineteen eighties right now, 220 00:14:42,880 --> 00:14:46,000 Speaker 1: You've got to alert somebody you know, or get to 221 00:14:46,040 --> 00:14:48,960 Speaker 1: a phone somehow. So what they do is they flag 222 00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:52,720 Speaker 1: down the next car that happens to come by, and 223 00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:56,200 Speaker 1: this happens to be filled with several people. Three people. 224 00:14:56,680 --> 00:15:01,040 Speaker 1: Dorothy Messer. She's a doctor, which is important. And wow, 225 00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:04,480 Speaker 1: isn't that like how great is that a doctor is 226 00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:08,640 Speaker 1: just happens to be there? It is Yeah, her fiance 227 00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:12,400 Speaker 1: is there. Uh David Coots, I believe it's how you 228 00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:15,280 Speaker 1: say his name, CEO U T T S. And there 229 00:15:15,520 --> 00:15:19,680 Speaker 1: is a counselor a Dundee s NP, the organization with 230 00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:23,640 Speaker 1: which Willie is associated is also in this car um 231 00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:28,480 Speaker 1: and it's really it's really interesting about this guy because 232 00:15:28,520 --> 00:15:33,120 Speaker 1: he actually knows personally Willie McCray because of their that association. 233 00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:37,040 Speaker 1: They worked together closely, right Yeah, David Coots, I mean 234 00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:39,680 Speaker 1: they're in the same political party, right. David Coots is 235 00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:47,160 Speaker 1: also SMP, so he is able to recognize McRae and mcray. 236 00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:51,160 Speaker 1: According to the reports from from these uh five people, 237 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:54,720 Speaker 1: the three Scottish folks in the car and the two 238 00:15:54,760 --> 00:15:58,800 Speaker 1: Australian tours, McGray does not have a seatbelt on, his 239 00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:00,800 Speaker 1: hands are kind of full it in his lap, and 240 00:16:00,840 --> 00:16:03,880 Speaker 1: his head is slumped on his right shoulder like this, 241 00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:07,120 Speaker 1: and there's a considerable amount of blood again on his 242 00:16:07,560 --> 00:16:12,920 Speaker 1: right temple. So they send one of their cars off 243 00:16:13,040 --> 00:16:17,360 Speaker 1: to call emergency services. As we pointed out earlier, this 244 00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:21,440 Speaker 1: is before cell phones, so they weren't able to just 245 00:16:21,560 --> 00:16:26,080 Speaker 1: dial uh, you know, their local emergency services number. That's 246 00:16:26,080 --> 00:16:29,040 Speaker 1: why it's even better that there was a doctor on site. 247 00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:33,960 Speaker 1: Dr Messer is examining Willie and she says he's still alive, 248 00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:38,000 Speaker 1: he's still breathing, but disturbingly, she notes that one of 249 00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:41,840 Speaker 1: his pupils is dilated. Why is this important Because your 250 00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:45,680 Speaker 1: pupils are supposed to dilate in tandem, they work together. 251 00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:49,120 Speaker 1: So when one of only one of your pupils is dilated, 252 00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:52,600 Speaker 1: or when one of them is pinwheeling, then that indicates 253 00:16:52,640 --> 00:16:57,360 Speaker 1: the possibility of brain damage. Right. So she estimated, based 254 00:16:57,400 --> 00:17:00,240 Speaker 1: on her assessment, they're going to be three assessment of 255 00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:03,240 Speaker 1: this guy. She estimated that he had been in this 256 00:17:03,320 --> 00:17:08,480 Speaker 1: state of brain damage for about ten hours. The ambulance arrives. 257 00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:12,359 Speaker 1: They take McCrae and Dr Messer to rake More Hospital. 258 00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:16,479 Speaker 1: The first hospital he goes to important point. When he 259 00:17:16,600 --> 00:17:20,160 Speaker 1: arrives there, the doctors do not test his blood for drugs. 260 00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:23,360 Speaker 1: They don't give him what you would consider to be 261 00:17:24,040 --> 00:17:29,320 Speaker 1: a basic emergency assessment, no X rays. That's correct. He 262 00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:34,520 Speaker 1: has transferred to a place called Aberdeen Royal Infirmary. And 263 00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:38,199 Speaker 1: it's at Aberdeen where the doctors, the nurses, the medical 264 00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:43,680 Speaker 1: staff realize this is not your garden variety unfortunate car accident. 265 00:17:44,119 --> 00:17:47,640 Speaker 1: And you will hear conflicting reports about almost everything we've 266 00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:50,000 Speaker 1: told you thus far. But but a lot of that 267 00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:54,440 Speaker 1: is established, especially the of the Australian tourists and the 268 00:17:54,480 --> 00:17:57,240 Speaker 1: people who are in that car and their assessments. But 269 00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:01,160 Speaker 1: some of the details they get Julia Murkey. So we're 270 00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:04,240 Speaker 1: gonna take you through what occurs at this Aberdeen hospital. 271 00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:08,080 Speaker 1: At least to a couple of different sources, it was 272 00:18:08,119 --> 00:18:11,720 Speaker 1: initially reported that the nurse assigned to him while he 273 00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:15,359 Speaker 1: was at Aberdeen was cleaning his head six hours after 274 00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:17,440 Speaker 1: he had been found, so six hours from the point 275 00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:20,600 Speaker 1: when those Australian tourists made it down to him. They 276 00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:23,640 Speaker 1: discovered what looks like the entry wound of a bullet. 277 00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:28,520 Speaker 1: And here, yeah, here is where they get their first 278 00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:32,359 Speaker 1: X rays. Again, the initial reports say that X rays 279 00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:35,680 Speaker 1: confirmed he had been shot right above his right ear 280 00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:39,159 Speaker 1: and that the bullet was still lodged within his brain. 281 00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:42,840 Speaker 1: There was no exit wound, and this caused the brain damage. 282 00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:46,560 Speaker 1: But but here's where we jumped through time, because now 283 00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:49,159 Speaker 1: with the benefit of retrospect, we know the name of 284 00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:54,119 Speaker 1: that nurse. Her name is Katherine McGonagall. And in eighteen 285 00:18:54,680 --> 00:18:58,640 Speaker 1: she went public responding to that the stories about her, 286 00:18:58,840 --> 00:19:03,880 Speaker 1: and she said it they were a load of hogwash. Essentially, 287 00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:06,399 Speaker 1: she didn't specifically say hogwash. I'm just going through a 288 00:19:06,400 --> 00:19:08,560 Speaker 1: phase where I'd like to use the word hogwash. But 289 00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:13,840 Speaker 1: she wash those dogs. But this is with the National 290 00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:18,199 Speaker 1: in team, where she says that the basics of the 291 00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:22,200 Speaker 1: story are wrong, that he was not shot in the temple. 292 00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:25,480 Speaker 1: Oh yeah. And the first thing of note that she 293 00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:30,879 Speaker 1: says here is that the reason why she discovered the 294 00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:34,000 Speaker 1: bullet wound at all was because she was afraid to 295 00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:37,720 Speaker 1: move him to get X rays done, and they were 296 00:19:37,760 --> 00:19:40,040 Speaker 1: so they were so weirded out that X rays didn't 297 00:19:40,119 --> 00:19:43,240 Speaker 1: arrive with him when he got transferred. But she as 298 00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:45,520 Speaker 1: the nurse taking care of this patient, didn't want to 299 00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:47,159 Speaker 1: actually move his head or neck because if it was 300 00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:50,320 Speaker 1: a car accident, maybe their injuries there. We can't move 301 00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:53,159 Speaker 1: him until we get x rays that we know, and 302 00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:56,159 Speaker 1: that is the moment, as she is, they're attempting to 303 00:19:56,280 --> 00:19:59,119 Speaker 1: just barely move him a little bit to get these 304 00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:02,760 Speaker 1: x rays done that they discovered this wound, yeah, exactly. 305 00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:06,160 Speaker 1: And the wound where where is the wound? Oh? Yeah, 306 00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:09,720 Speaker 1: this is this is the most important thing. Again, not 307 00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:12,639 Speaker 1: in the right temple. She's saying. The wound is in 308 00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:15,560 Speaker 1: the back of the neck, like right at the back 309 00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:18,240 Speaker 1: of the neck. That there's no exit wound. There's just 310 00:20:18,359 --> 00:20:21,080 Speaker 1: an entry entry room that is smaller than I think. 311 00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:24,359 Speaker 1: She says, a penny piece, Yeah, one penny piece, and 312 00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:26,919 Speaker 1: it was aimed directly at the brain stem, so like 313 00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:29,240 Speaker 1: in the back of the head, right at the neck, 314 00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:32,520 Speaker 1: in the base towards the brainstem, which feels like a 315 00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:40,080 Speaker 1: doesn't feel like a suicide. So so she she describes 316 00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:43,000 Speaker 1: this entry wound in detail. She says, it's smaller than 317 00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:46,080 Speaker 1: a one penny piece, and like you said, Matt, directly 318 00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:50,880 Speaker 1: directly at that brainstem. As and as we pointed out, 319 00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:53,359 Speaker 1: she knew she clocks how weird it is that there 320 00:20:53,359 --> 00:20:57,080 Speaker 1: are no x rays, and she says to the National Normally, 321 00:20:57,119 --> 00:20:59,080 Speaker 1: if a patient is transferred, you would have a phone 322 00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:01,640 Speaker 1: call from the doctor, a phone call from the nurse, 323 00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:03,520 Speaker 1: and charge an X rays would have been with the 324 00:21:03,560 --> 00:21:07,200 Speaker 1: patient when they arrived. It appeared to her as if 325 00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:10,560 Speaker 1: the doctors at the earlier hospital simply had not assess 326 00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:13,959 Speaker 1: him at all, and she thought that was pretty off 327 00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:17,280 Speaker 1: because someone who had apparently been seriously injured in a 328 00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:22,560 Speaker 1: road traffic accident also had no obvious injuries to the 329 00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:26,600 Speaker 1: front of his head or to his face. And we'll 330 00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:30,200 Speaker 1: come back to McGonagall later, but that is bizarre because 331 00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:33,520 Speaker 1: usually when you say you know someone wasn't an accident, 332 00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:35,480 Speaker 1: and even if they made it out with just a 333 00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:38,760 Speaker 1: few cuts and scratches, they are usually going to be 334 00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:42,080 Speaker 1: some sort of uh, facial injuries. You'll even if you're 335 00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:44,520 Speaker 1: wearing a seat belt, you know the air bag will 336 00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:47,399 Speaker 1: hit you. If this is in the time before air bags, 337 00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:50,320 Speaker 1: then you'll you might break the bridge of your nose 338 00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:52,919 Speaker 1: or have some contusions when you hit the steering wheel. 339 00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:55,560 Speaker 1: But if this guy was not wearing a seat belt 340 00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:59,879 Speaker 1: when he was driving, he would have definitely had something else. 341 00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:04,760 Speaker 1: So already, like, medical professionals are smart and they're familiar 342 00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:06,640 Speaker 1: with a lot of scenarios that a lot of other 343 00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:10,040 Speaker 1: people don't see every day. So these these questions that 344 00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:14,040 Speaker 1: are popping up to her, they're very, very strange. There's 345 00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:16,359 Speaker 1: one last thing we have to mention here with with 346 00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:21,760 Speaker 1: the stories of miss McGonagall, and it's just the strange 347 00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:24,399 Speaker 1: way that she came to realize that she was actually 348 00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:29,480 Speaker 1: treating Willie McCrae. In this interview with The National, she 349 00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:33,840 Speaker 1: states that for a long time she had assumed that 350 00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:38,040 Speaker 1: McRae died at the previous hospital, but when she read 351 00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:41,119 Speaker 1: that he had died in Aberdeen, I checked the dates 352 00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:43,240 Speaker 1: when I was working there and when I left for 353 00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:46,800 Speaker 1: my course in Edinburgh, and realized the nurse who was 354 00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:50,120 Speaker 1: mentioned in the reports, like in all of these national newspapers, 355 00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:53,600 Speaker 1: they were about her. So that's a little weird to me. 356 00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:57,400 Speaker 1: Right in the moment, she didn't realize she was treating 357 00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:00,960 Speaker 1: Willie Willie McCrae, or that he was anyone of note. 358 00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:03,719 Speaker 1: I guess, yeah, that's a very good point, Matt, because 359 00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:06,640 Speaker 1: you know when you read that, you can think, well, 360 00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:09,560 Speaker 1: maybe memory is playing tricks on someone with the best 361 00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:12,239 Speaker 1: of intentions. But then you can also you also have 362 00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:16,160 Speaker 1: to ask yourself how many people did she treat in general, 363 00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:19,520 Speaker 1: you know, the over the course of her career. Many 364 00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:24,240 Speaker 1: years later, when she reads this, probably the first things 365 00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:27,840 Speaker 1: that she notices are the discrepancy she noticed on that day, 366 00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:30,800 Speaker 1: and then she puts the pieces together. But but it 367 00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:34,080 Speaker 1: is odd, and she's not the only person in this 368 00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:38,359 Speaker 1: story who comes forward years and years after the fact. 369 00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:44,760 Speaker 1: But back to back to this day in April, mccraye's 370 00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:49,240 Speaker 1: vital functions continue to weaken. He has severe brain damage. 371 00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:55,280 Speaker 1: The doctors and his next of ken confer and they 372 00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:59,639 Speaker 1: have a conversation that everyone dreads. And so on the 373 00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:03,600 Speaker 1: next day, Sunday, April seven, the doctors take him off 374 00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:09,159 Speaker 1: life support and Willie McCray passes away. This, in many ways, 375 00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:12,760 Speaker 1: is the beginning of the story, rather than the empty 376 00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:16,800 Speaker 1: We'll pause for a word from our sponsors, and we'll 377 00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:22,439 Speaker 1: return to dive into the questions that circle this case 378 00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:31,600 Speaker 1: and remain with us in the modern day. We're back, 379 00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:37,600 Speaker 1: all right. So, similar to the Checkov rule for writing 380 00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:41,440 Speaker 1: a good play, we know that in the course of 381 00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:46,840 Speaker 1: an investigation where a firearm is involved. You want to 382 00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:51,240 Speaker 1: find the weapon, and but but but but there was 383 00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:56,959 Speaker 1: no firearm right through, like through at least the initial investigation, 384 00:24:57,000 --> 00:25:02,240 Speaker 1: whenever police first went out to that vehicle, Um, nobody 385 00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:05,480 Speaker 1: knew that a firearm was involved or a bullet at 386 00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:08,960 Speaker 1: all was involved, right right, Apparently the police did not 387 00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:13,080 Speaker 1: clock it. They just and we'll get into this too. 388 00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:17,840 Speaker 1: They they had moved the vehicle initially, and it wasn't 389 00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:22,359 Speaker 1: until a day later that they found a gun. It's 390 00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:25,720 Speaker 1: been reported as a Smith and Weston forty five. You 391 00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:27,639 Speaker 1: may also see reports of it being a Smith and 392 00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:31,359 Speaker 1: Wesson twenty two. I would say, like I would just 393 00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:33,800 Speaker 1: say the twenty two would make a lot more sense 394 00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:39,080 Speaker 1: for a smaller bullet that gets lodged, doesn't have an exit. Yeah, 395 00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:42,560 Speaker 1: but it is. It is weird. Has been saying, like 396 00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:45,639 Speaker 1: all kinds of different reports about this weapon. Oh, the 397 00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:48,440 Speaker 1: gun is the gun is a very strange thing. This 398 00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:53,399 Speaker 1: is this is Schrodinger's firearm, you know, the Schrodinger's side piece. 399 00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:58,200 Speaker 1: Because what's odd about this is that the the gun 400 00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:00,879 Speaker 1: that they find. First off, they find it a day later, 401 00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:04,600 Speaker 1: and then secondly, this gun does not appear to have 402 00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:10,200 Speaker 1: fingerprints on it. And thirdly, this gun is at least 403 00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:12,560 Speaker 1: when they discover it. To the official story, it is 404 00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:19,119 Speaker 1: some measure of distance away from the vehicle or or 405 00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:25,600 Speaker 1: right by the driver the driver's side window, or no 406 00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:29,800 Speaker 1: one agrees how far away or close the gun was it. 407 00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:33,200 Speaker 1: Oddly enough, no one does, and some of the investigations 408 00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:40,000 Speaker 1: contained contradictory information about this. And so despite this lack 409 00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:42,679 Speaker 1: of fingerprints, despite the weirdness about the gun, despite the 410 00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:47,040 Speaker 1: weirdness about the way the hospital treated him, the official 411 00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:53,520 Speaker 1: investigation initially says Willie McRae has committed suicide and they 412 00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:58,000 Speaker 1: don't hold a further inquiry into it. This seemed unprecedented 413 00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:01,520 Speaker 1: for McRae too many people. He was on the cusp 414 00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:05,800 Speaker 1: of getting elected to Westminster, and he was making a 415 00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:08,600 Speaker 1: lot of headway in his anti nuclear campaign, and he 416 00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:12,240 Speaker 1: was also writing a book. According to I know, and 417 00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:15,520 Speaker 1: this isn't the most reliable source, but on Electric Scotland 418 00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:18,880 Speaker 1: dot com you can read you can read a report 419 00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:23,040 Speaker 1: by someone who supposed supposedly by someone who knew Willie, 420 00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:26,560 Speaker 1: who said he was that he had just discovered something 421 00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:29,040 Speaker 1: very important with regards to the book he was writing 422 00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:34,159 Speaker 1: again about the nuclear waste industry or the nuclear lobby 423 00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:37,920 Speaker 1: and industry and the waste disposal and all of that 424 00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:40,399 Speaker 1: um and also that he was on his way to 425 00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:44,960 Speaker 1: a wedding celebration very soon. So like there's just a 426 00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:50,199 Speaker 1: lot of weird stuff. They're about, uh, personal reports of 427 00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:55,000 Speaker 1: him not being a suicide risk, right, right, And again, 428 00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:58,080 Speaker 1: you know, anybody who has had the tragic personal experience 429 00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:01,679 Speaker 1: of this, you know that they're are not always clean 430 00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:07,000 Speaker 1: indicators of someone's personal struggles. But I want to go 431 00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:10,560 Speaker 1: back to this idea of the anti nuclear campaign, because 432 00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:14,480 Speaker 1: instead of an inquiry, there was another campaign that began, 433 00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:20,080 Speaker 1: a whisper campaign, rumors that McCray was a very heavy 434 00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:26,080 Speaker 1: drinker and alcoholic, that he was struggling with his sexual orientation. 435 00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:32,080 Speaker 1: And still those those rumors, if indeed a smear campaign, 436 00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:36,959 Speaker 1: it was, could not stem the tide of questions that 437 00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:40,320 Speaker 1: were rising at a precipitous rate. And as he said, 438 00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:44,000 Speaker 1: he had not exhibited signs of suicidal ideation in the past. 439 00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:50,400 Speaker 1: This immediately becomes an enormously controversial, even conspiratorial topic. So 440 00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:53,120 Speaker 1: over the past few decades, his death has been the 441 00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:58,600 Speaker 1: subject of numerous articles, investigations, books. There's even a television 442 00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:03,720 Speaker 1: documentary about him out, So why why all this attention 443 00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:10,080 Speaker 1: paid to to this unfortunate death. To understand why the 444 00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:14,600 Speaker 1: circumstances of mcgray's death and the official conclusion seems so 445 00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:18,280 Speaker 1: suspicious to so many people, we really have to understand 446 00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:22,400 Speaker 1: the background of his political career and his activities in 447 00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:26,440 Speaker 1: the time leading up to his demise. That's right. We 448 00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:30,040 Speaker 1: talked about his background a little bit. But William McCrae 449 00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:35,400 Speaker 1: was an officer in the British Navy and oh you 450 00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:38,760 Speaker 1: you may recognize this name. He was an aid to 451 00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:42,800 Speaker 1: Lord Mountbatten before this guy was murdered by the i 452 00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:47,680 Speaker 1: R A um m hmmm. Interesting. As an attorney, he 453 00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:51,360 Speaker 1: was fiercely opposed, as we talked about two, storing any 454 00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:55,320 Speaker 1: kinds of nuclear waste or material or weapons in Scotland. 455 00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:58,840 Speaker 1: And he also this is when he became involved with 456 00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:02,800 Speaker 1: the Scottish National already the SNP, and was he was 457 00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:06,320 Speaker 1: really campaigning for independence And I, you know, I don't 458 00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:08,680 Speaker 1: know how closely those two things are connected. I've only 459 00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:12,600 Speaker 1: read the surface things that have been written about Willie McCrae. 460 00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:14,480 Speaker 1: You know, I didn't know him. I didn't know any 461 00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:16,920 Speaker 1: of his relatives or co workers. And he also became 462 00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:20,240 Speaker 1: involved with that SNP, the Scottish National Party, and was 463 00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:24,920 Speaker 1: really campaigning hard for Scottish independence. Yeah yeah. And these 464 00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:29,360 Speaker 1: were two extremely sensitive subjects at the time, and Scottish 465 00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:33,600 Speaker 1: independence remains a touchy subject for many people in t 466 00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:38,680 Speaker 1: one as we record this. Because of his connections, people 467 00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:41,800 Speaker 1: began to believe McRae had not taken his own life 468 00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:45,120 Speaker 1: but had been murdered, that he had uncovered something the 469 00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:48,640 Speaker 1: British government didn't want the public to know, and that 470 00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:51,600 Speaker 1: he might be on the cusp of releasing some nasty 471 00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:55,560 Speaker 1: skeletons from the UK administration's closet. Can I read a 472 00:30:55,640 --> 00:31:00,280 Speaker 1: quick little excerpt here from that weird electric oh yeah place, 473 00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:05,280 Speaker 1: whatever it is, Electric Scotland um. According to the story 474 00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:09,479 Speaker 1: on this Electric Scotland post, this person says that just 475 00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:14,320 Speaker 1: before Willie was killed, he had incontrovertible evidence from a 476 00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:17,240 Speaker 1: source within the m o D, the Ministry of Defense 477 00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:21,360 Speaker 1: that plans were in place to build an underwater burial 478 00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:25,360 Speaker 1: casement offshore in apple Cross to store all of the 479 00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:29,719 Speaker 1: UK nuclear waste uh. And he was beside himself and 480 00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:32,680 Speaker 1: he was going to publicize all of these findings on 481 00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:36,760 Speaker 1: the weekend, so right before, right after his body is found, 482 00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:39,840 Speaker 1: or his his car is found with him in it unconscious, 483 00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:43,880 Speaker 1: and there was something else of what that didn't make 484 00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:46,720 Speaker 1: it into a lot of the official statements of the time. 485 00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:52,880 Speaker 1: In the time leading up to his death, mccraye's home 486 00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:57,080 Speaker 1: and office had been broken into, burglarized the multiple occasions. 487 00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:01,280 Speaker 1: He became paranoid and now, as as you saw, he 488 00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:06,720 Speaker 1: started carrying his briefcase with him at all times. In fact, 489 00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:09,760 Speaker 1: on the day he left for his cottage, you know, 490 00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:13,440 Speaker 1: we said he left around five thirty pm. He was delayed. 491 00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:17,240 Speaker 1: He had meant to go earlier, but someone or some 492 00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:21,840 Speaker 1: group had slashed his tires. It's true story, and much later, 493 00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:26,320 Speaker 1: as a matter of fact, very recently, a former forklift 494 00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:31,320 Speaker 1: driver named Pat Gallagher came forward and made a new 495 00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:36,400 Speaker 1: claim about mccraig. He said that he had saved McCray 496 00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:40,040 Speaker 1: from a serious fire just a few hours before his 497 00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:43,880 Speaker 1: untimely death and apartment fire. So around seven thirty am 498 00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:47,280 Speaker 1: on that day, April five, Gallagher, who was twenty seven 499 00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:49,240 Speaker 1: years old, was on the way to work when he 500 00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:52,920 Speaker 1: saw that a fire had broken out in mccraye's apartment. 501 00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:56,760 Speaker 1: And then Gallagher also says that he saw a man 502 00:32:56,920 --> 00:33:01,000 Speaker 1: dressed in a boiler suit passing him by with a briefcase, 503 00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:04,800 Speaker 1: and at the time, Gallagher assumed this was a neighbor 504 00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:09,200 Speaker 1: of whomever's house was on fire. And so he talks 505 00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:12,400 Speaker 1: this guy still unidentified, says, hey, you know, help me, 506 00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:14,800 Speaker 1: there's there's a fire. There's a fire. And then the 507 00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:18,280 Speaker 1: guy says, get this mat. The guy says, Oh, I'm 508 00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:20,640 Speaker 1: in a hurry. I gotta go to work, and he 509 00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:24,120 Speaker 1: runs off, and Gallagher thinks this is kind of screwy. 510 00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:29,080 Speaker 1: Why would a neighbor be more concerned about punctuality at 511 00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:32,640 Speaker 1: work than they would be about someone dying in a fire. Furthermore, 512 00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:36,360 Speaker 1: why would a guide to boiler suit be carrying a briefcase, 513 00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:39,280 Speaker 1: a tan briefcase which later turns out to look a 514 00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:44,880 Speaker 1: lot like looks a lot like mccrawe's briefcase. Also, what 515 00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:47,280 Speaker 1: the hell is a boiler suit? Yeah, I don't want 516 00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:49,680 Speaker 1: to find it out. I don't understand what it is. 517 00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:54,800 Speaker 1: You know, it's like it's like a onesie. Oh it's coveralls. Yeah, okay, 518 00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:57,080 Speaker 1: I've never heard it referred to as a boiler suit, 519 00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:01,600 Speaker 1: got it? Yeah, yeah, so outs of profile. But that's 520 00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:06,240 Speaker 1: you can understand how young Pat Gallagher would think it's 521 00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:09,359 Speaker 1: weird for somebody to be carrying a briefcase and rocking 522 00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:11,520 Speaker 1: that kind of suit. It looks like something with more, 523 00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:15,800 Speaker 1: you know, more easily associate with a toolbox, right for 524 00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:19,239 Speaker 1: for certain, maybe the briefcase had tools in it. There 525 00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:21,880 Speaker 1: you go, I can imagine that that'd be kind of 526 00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:23,359 Speaker 1: cool that you wouldn't be able to fit a lot 527 00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:25,719 Speaker 1: of important things into a briefcase unless it was a 528 00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:29,560 Speaker 1: really big one. It was the world's biggest briefcase. Yes, 529 00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:32,399 Speaker 1: even then you're going to really destroy the interior. And yeah, 530 00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:35,040 Speaker 1: let's let's just say that was definitely weird and this 531 00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:37,960 Speaker 1: person was right to think it was odd. And then 532 00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:40,520 Speaker 1: Gallagher goes on to claim that he later saw this 533 00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:43,640 Speaker 1: same guy parked in the middle of the road nearer 534 00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:48,319 Speaker 1: this this road called Queen's Drive and this person was 535 00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:51,640 Speaker 1: speaking with another driver, And then he saw the same 536 00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:55,920 Speaker 1: car outside his workplace later that morning, and he claimed 537 00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:58,000 Speaker 1: that he saw it several more times over the next 538 00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:02,480 Speaker 1: few weeks in the same area that Queen's Park area. Right, Yeah, 539 00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:06,319 Speaker 1: and most troublingly, uh, you know, the question is why 540 00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:09,120 Speaker 1: did you just come forward? Now? He says he originally 541 00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:13,240 Speaker 1: gave all these details to the police, whom he contacted first, 542 00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:16,480 Speaker 1: but they never followed up with him. And according to 543 00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:20,160 Speaker 1: one other rumor, McCray told one of his close friends, 544 00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:25,160 Speaker 1: Donald Morrison, I've got them this time before he headed 545 00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:28,920 Speaker 1: off and was not seen again by Morrison. That's when 546 00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:32,000 Speaker 1: he told this person John who I just keep mentioning 547 00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:37,160 Speaker 1: from that that random article there electric Scotland and it's 548 00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:39,560 Speaker 1: the same that's also the same story where that person 549 00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:43,640 Speaker 1: came forward with their story and reported it to police, 550 00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:46,960 Speaker 1: but nothing was ever made of it. He never heard back. Yeah, 551 00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:53,680 Speaker 1: and another disturbing fact, when they find mccraie's car, his 552 00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:57,480 Speaker 1: briefcase that he always has with him is missing. So 553 00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:03,000 Speaker 1: the official conclusion, per Detective Chief Inspector David Pickney, was 554 00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:07,719 Speaker 1: this quote. Police Scotland can confirm, following a thorough investigation 555 00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:11,160 Speaker 1: into the death of William McCray on April six, there 556 00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:14,880 Speaker 1: were no suspicious circumstances and, as with all sudden deaths, 557 00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:19,279 Speaker 1: a report was sent to the Procurator. Fiscal went on 558 00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:22,440 Speaker 1: to add A partner gobbledegook here went on to add 559 00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:25,360 Speaker 1: reviews by the Northern Constable Area in the Crown Office 560 00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:27,640 Speaker 1: into the matter in two thousand and ten and two 561 00:36:27,640 --> 00:36:31,800 Speaker 1: thousand eleven did not raise any new matters. Police Scotland 562 00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:35,759 Speaker 1: remains satisfied that the investigation was conducted thoroughly and that 563 00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:38,960 Speaker 1: the case was concluded once the report was sent and 564 00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:42,880 Speaker 1: with that the Crown Council considered the case closed. But 565 00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:45,719 Speaker 1: there were problems with the conclusion. There's all kinds of 566 00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:49,120 Speaker 1: discrepancies and we've been laying them out for you throughout 567 00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:52,920 Speaker 1: this entire episode thus far, and and it's it's it's 568 00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:56,520 Speaker 1: just tough to state how many there were. Aside from 569 00:36:56,520 --> 00:36:59,560 Speaker 1: the missing briefcase, the one that McCray always kept on 570 00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:02,080 Speaker 1: him because he's a bit of a bit paranoid due 571 00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:04,760 Speaker 1: to the break ins and just due to him dealing 572 00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:10,480 Speaker 1: with some some powerful people and making enemies. That's you know, 573 00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:16,440 Speaker 1: where he was. He was just aware that. I didn't 574 00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:18,480 Speaker 1: mean to put any spin on being paranoid as a 575 00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:20,959 Speaker 1: negative thing. I just meant, yeah, he was paranoid about 576 00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:24,680 Speaker 1: someone trying to take his stuff or get him um 577 00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:28,480 Speaker 1: and probably for good reason. There's more, there's all kinds 578 00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:32,320 Speaker 1: of this new information coming out from people who experienced 579 00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:37,000 Speaker 1: and you know, an interaction with McRae um that didn't 580 00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:42,080 Speaker 1: come out while the investigations were happening. The gunshot wound, right, 581 00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:45,360 Speaker 1: that's weird if if it's true, if we're to believe 582 00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:48,360 Speaker 1: the story of the nurse, then the gunshot wound to 583 00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:50,839 Speaker 1: the back of the head almost in my mind at 584 00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:55,000 Speaker 1: least rules out suicide. I can't imagine someone if I 585 00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:56,880 Speaker 1: don't know if you're watching this on video, but imagine 586 00:37:56,960 --> 00:38:00,920 Speaker 1: someone doing it that way, especially inside a vehicle, a 587 00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:05,719 Speaker 1: cramped though like that maybe I don't know, while they're 588 00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:09,279 Speaker 1: driving right, and then just letting the car go where 589 00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:11,640 Speaker 1: it may it. Also, we have to remember that McRae 590 00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:15,000 Speaker 1: is a veteran, he has firearm experience, So why would 591 00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:17,399 Speaker 1: he Why would he put a gun behind his head 592 00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:19,600 Speaker 1: and fired directly at the brainstem like that? How would 593 00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:23,040 Speaker 1: he manage the angle? What? What would motivate someone to 594 00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:26,120 Speaker 1: make that choice? And what about the allegations that the 595 00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:30,520 Speaker 1: gun was like that it was fired more than once. 596 00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:33,400 Speaker 1: You'll see reports that was fired twice. Uh No, no 597 00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:37,000 Speaker 1: fingerprints on there, which is not impossible. But to be clear, 598 00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:40,040 Speaker 1: McCrae wasn't wearing gloves or anything that would you know, 599 00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:43,480 Speaker 1: easily explain why the gun denied his fingerprints on it. 600 00:38:44,080 --> 00:38:47,680 Speaker 1: Some sources say his fingerprints are on it, but I 601 00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:51,719 Speaker 1: cannot find an official report with that same same And 602 00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:54,000 Speaker 1: we have to be careful with this stuff, so uh 603 00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:57,320 Speaker 1: In in that spirit, let's talk a little bit about 604 00:38:57,360 --> 00:39:00,759 Speaker 1: the debate regarding how far away or how close the 605 00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:03,960 Speaker 1: gun was. I know this is something that drove both 606 00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:08,600 Speaker 1: Matt and I crazy looking into it. So there is 607 00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:12,120 Speaker 1: the distinct possibility that the car was moved and returned 608 00:39:12,160 --> 00:39:14,839 Speaker 1: before the discovery of the firearm. We talked about that 609 00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:17,440 Speaker 1: that may have been that may have resulted in the 610 00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:21,080 Speaker 1: car being placed further away. Again, the details get a 611 00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:24,640 Speaker 1: little murky, but it's interesting to note that two separate 612 00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:28,920 Speaker 1: independent what are called breakdown companies towing companies we call 613 00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:32,200 Speaker 1: them in the US, two separate companies claimed that they 614 00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:36,879 Speaker 1: were responsible for removing mccraye's vehicle. But the couple, this 615 00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:40,080 Speaker 1: is a lot of yes butts. The couple who initially 616 00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:44,960 Speaker 1: reported the incident, the Crows from Australia, they contradict that 617 00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:48,040 Speaker 1: that story. They returned a day later, they said to 618 00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:51,200 Speaker 1: find a lost glove of their own and they could 619 00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:53,560 Speaker 1: confirm when they got there that the vehicle was in 620 00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:56,440 Speaker 1: the same location as it was when they first discovered it. 621 00:39:57,080 --> 00:40:01,400 Speaker 1: Curiouser and curiouser, and now what a out? What about 622 00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:04,000 Speaker 1: the other people who came forward? What about people like 623 00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:07,160 Speaker 1: retired police officer Ian Fraser was working as a p 624 00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:10,919 Speaker 1: I at the time of mccraiye's death, Private Investigator two 625 00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:13,640 Speaker 1: thousand six. He comes forward and he says he had 626 00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:17,600 Speaker 1: an anonymous client, an anonymous employer, who had paid him 627 00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:21,480 Speaker 1: to keep McCrae under surveillance for weeks leading up to 628 00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:26,480 Speaker 1: mccray's death. Or how about this November statement from former 629 00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:30,200 Speaker 1: police officer Donald Morrison, who you and both of these things, 630 00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:32,640 Speaker 1: by the way, you can find in a Scottish I documentary. 631 00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:35,120 Speaker 1: We highly recommend you check that out. This guy, as 632 00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:39,960 Speaker 1: mccraye's friend, said that McCrae had allegedly been under surveillance 633 00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:44,359 Speaker 1: by both Special Branch and m I five. They call 634 00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:48,759 Speaker 1: him what do they call them, Special Division or Special I? 635 00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:52,319 Speaker 1: Forget exactly what they call him the Scottish I documentary, 636 00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:56,320 Speaker 1: but there is some compelling stuff here where there are 637 00:40:56,360 --> 00:41:00,160 Speaker 1: several license plate numbers written down or identification number is 638 00:41:00,200 --> 00:41:05,600 Speaker 1: on these vehicles and the Scottish Eye independently confirms that 639 00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:10,000 Speaker 1: these are intelligence or these vehicles were used by an 640 00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:15,319 Speaker 1: intelligence service, right the specific individuals driving and the yet 641 00:41:15,360 --> 00:41:20,360 Speaker 1: to be identified But coupled coupled with those facts, coupled 642 00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:23,560 Speaker 1: with the fact that we know McRae was also asking 643 00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:26,520 Speaker 1: his police contacts to help him trace some vehicles that 644 00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:28,920 Speaker 1: he thought were tailing him, and then coupled with the 645 00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:33,080 Speaker 1: disturbing statements of the nurse McGonagall and the forklift worker Gallagher, 646 00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:36,760 Speaker 1: it is completely understandable by a growing number of people 647 00:41:36,840 --> 00:41:40,080 Speaker 1: familiar with this case do not believe the official story 648 00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:42,520 Speaker 1: this is. This is going to be a little bit 649 00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:47,400 Speaker 1: of a longer episode, folks, because there's one more gigantic 650 00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:51,239 Speaker 1: twist to this story. We'll tell you what it is 651 00:41:51,280 --> 00:42:01,040 Speaker 1: afterword from our sponsors. We've returned and now we're into 652 00:42:01,239 --> 00:42:05,920 Speaker 1: the land of conspiracies. There are several potential conspiracies of foot. 653 00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:10,520 Speaker 1: At this point, it is safe to say that someone 654 00:42:10,600 --> 00:42:15,560 Speaker 1: was definitely after information that McRae held. But what was 655 00:42:15,640 --> 00:42:20,440 Speaker 1: this information exactly? There are two big theories. One theory, 656 00:42:20,520 --> 00:42:24,160 Speaker 1: which is pretty popular in Scotland, is has to do 657 00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:27,600 Speaker 1: with mccraye's anti nuclear work. At the time his death, 658 00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:29,600 Speaker 1: as we noted, he had been working on plans to 659 00:42:29,680 --> 00:42:33,200 Speaker 1: stop the dumping of nuclear waste from the Dunree Nuclear 660 00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:37,520 Speaker 1: Power Development Establishment. For people who believe the government murdered 661 00:42:37,600 --> 00:42:40,480 Speaker 1: him due to this activism, the burglaries at his home 662 00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:44,960 Speaker 1: and office were almost proof enough because we know at 663 00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:47,400 Speaker 1: least some of the stuff he carried in that briefcase, 664 00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:51,120 Speaker 1: the one that meant went missing. They were documents related 665 00:42:51,200 --> 00:42:56,000 Speaker 1: to his work fighting the nuclear powers that be. The 666 00:42:56,040 --> 00:42:59,680 Speaker 1: only other copies of these documents were at his office, 667 00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:03,480 Speaker 1: and when his office was burglarized, those documents were the 668 00:43:03,640 --> 00:43:09,440 Speaker 1: only things taken. So that's already pretty fishy, pretty nuclear fishy. 669 00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:13,440 Speaker 1: But that that is only one of the theories. It's 670 00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:16,040 Speaker 1: probably the most prevalent, or it was for a number 671 00:43:16,080 --> 00:43:19,839 Speaker 1: of years. But there's another theory, right, Matt, What if 672 00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:23,160 Speaker 1: McCrae was onto something else. Yes, according to stuff you 673 00:43:23,160 --> 00:43:27,160 Speaker 1: can read in the Scottish Sunday Express, there's some allegations 674 00:43:27,800 --> 00:43:33,600 Speaker 1: from that McCrae may have been onto something else that 675 00:43:33,840 --> 00:43:37,480 Speaker 1: very powerful and influential people were getting up to, that 676 00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:40,840 Speaker 1: he was threatening to expose or he was about to expose. 677 00:43:41,160 --> 00:43:45,000 Speaker 1: You can read this article in Express called SNP activist 678 00:43:45,239 --> 00:43:51,799 Speaker 1: killed over child sex files. The allegations here are that 679 00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:57,120 Speaker 1: he had uncovered evidence that officially alleged pedophile child abuse 680 00:43:57,160 --> 00:44:01,680 Speaker 1: springs or a ring probably ring in Westminster during the 681 00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:05,480 Speaker 1: nineteen eighties were real and we're operating at that time. 682 00:44:06,200 --> 00:44:09,479 Speaker 1: It suggested that he may have been murdered to keep 683 00:44:09,520 --> 00:44:13,560 Speaker 1: this whole thing a secret and specifically to take away 684 00:44:13,640 --> 00:44:17,719 Speaker 1: the evidence that he had about all of this, so 685 00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:21,839 Speaker 1: that and that would explain his you know, the place 686 00:44:21,880 --> 00:44:24,360 Speaker 1: where he lived being burgled and having his things taken 687 00:44:24,480 --> 00:44:26,879 Speaker 1: and his briefcase being stolen. So those kind of work 688 00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:31,120 Speaker 1: together there, right and longtime listeners will be familiar with 689 00:44:31,320 --> 00:44:37,880 Speaker 1: the child abuse ring investigation, most notably uh the habit 690 00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:43,839 Speaker 1: of the UK government for stonewalling honest investigations into into 691 00:44:43,880 --> 00:44:50,359 Speaker 1: the allegations here, and for only only going public with 692 00:44:50,440 --> 00:44:54,520 Speaker 1: proving crimes after someone had died, such as the notorious 693 00:44:54,520 --> 00:45:01,520 Speaker 1: Cyril Smith or Jimmy saville M and these, so there 694 00:45:01,680 --> 00:45:06,279 Speaker 1: was definitely something going on there. There are ongoing allegations 695 00:45:06,320 --> 00:45:09,960 Speaker 1: of cover ups at the highest level of the UK government, 696 00:45:10,280 --> 00:45:14,800 Speaker 1: possibly so that they can use the evidence they've collected 697 00:45:14,840 --> 00:45:19,360 Speaker 1: as blackmail right to exert political influence. It's a very 698 00:45:19,600 --> 00:45:23,359 Speaker 1: unclean game, but other governments have done it before. And 699 00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:27,960 Speaker 1: this the most disturbing thing about this allegation is that 700 00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:33,719 Speaker 1: the timeline fits. Mcgray's death comes just months after uh 701 00:45:33,920 --> 00:45:38,000 Speaker 1: Tory MP named Jeffrey Dickens had handed in his own 702 00:45:38,040 --> 00:45:43,560 Speaker 1: infamous dossier to the then Home Secretary Leon Britten. This 703 00:45:43,640 --> 00:45:48,719 Speaker 1: dossier had what Dickens considered to be hard evidence of 704 00:45:48,800 --> 00:45:55,040 Speaker 1: an of an ongoing child abuse network, and that dossier 705 00:45:55,840 --> 00:46:01,600 Speaker 1: was officially lost or maybe destroyed, but officially lost. Express 706 00:46:01,640 --> 00:46:05,000 Speaker 1: As also spoke with the widow of a barrister named 707 00:46:05,040 --> 00:46:09,720 Speaker 1: James Borders, a lady named Fiona Borders, and her husband, 708 00:46:09,800 --> 00:46:12,720 Speaker 1: during his career, was involved in a number of child 709 00:46:12,760 --> 00:46:16,359 Speaker 1: abuse cases, and she was convinced that McRae was on 710 00:46:16,400 --> 00:46:19,520 Speaker 1: the verge of quote shaking the establishment to the core. 711 00:46:19,960 --> 00:46:22,960 Speaker 1: When he lost his life. She thought he got some information. 712 00:46:23,120 --> 00:46:26,640 Speaker 1: It was actionable, which means you know, it was legit improvable, 713 00:46:26,920 --> 00:46:30,040 Speaker 1: and he couldn't sit on it. She said. Unfortunately, he 714 00:46:30,120 --> 00:46:32,840 Speaker 1: must have spoke of this list to someone he should 715 00:46:32,880 --> 00:46:35,759 Speaker 1: not have, which led to his downfall. And then she 716 00:46:35,880 --> 00:46:42,160 Speaker 1: has a quote that we've italicized and underlined. Did the outlined, Matt, 717 00:46:42,200 --> 00:46:45,799 Speaker 1: you want to do the honors. It is easy to 718 00:46:46,000 --> 00:46:50,960 Speaker 1: sound like a conspiracy theorist, but at times conspiracy theories 719 00:46:51,040 --> 00:46:57,080 Speaker 1: are proven true. Yes, yes, and and Donald Morrison, mcgray's 720 00:46:57,160 --> 00:47:00,600 Speaker 1: old friend, agrees with this. He says that many many 721 00:47:00,680 --> 00:47:04,920 Speaker 1: years he well, he always believed McCray was murdered, but 722 00:47:05,080 --> 00:47:09,640 Speaker 1: he believed McCray was murdered for unearthing evidence about nuclear waste. 723 00:47:09,960 --> 00:47:13,719 Speaker 1: But now he is convinced that McCray was murdered in 724 00:47:13,880 --> 00:47:18,360 Speaker 1: order to prevent the exposure of that high level child 725 00:47:18,480 --> 00:47:22,000 Speaker 1: abuse network which he also believes in that which again 726 00:47:22,040 --> 00:47:26,040 Speaker 1: has not been officially proven or acknowledged by the UK government. 727 00:47:27,560 --> 00:47:30,640 Speaker 1: And he said this there was a ring. This ring 728 00:47:30,760 --> 00:47:34,880 Speaker 1: existed on both sides of the border, exists in Scotland. 729 00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:39,880 Speaker 1: He also said he was being harassed, receiving anonymous death threats, 730 00:47:39,920 --> 00:47:41,759 Speaker 1: that his email had been hacked, that he had been 731 00:47:41,800 --> 00:47:47,319 Speaker 1: followed or placed under surveillance. YEA Morrison is so fascinating. 732 00:47:47,719 --> 00:47:49,799 Speaker 1: I would have head over to the Express right now 733 00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:52,840 Speaker 1: if you want to, if you have time read the article. 734 00:47:53,040 --> 00:47:56,920 Speaker 1: I will sign Affidavid Tying m I five to McRae murder. 735 00:47:57,320 --> 00:48:01,279 Speaker 1: Read the one we just mentioned here, death threat letter 736 00:48:01,360 --> 00:48:04,800 Speaker 1: for ex cop friend of SNP activist Willie McRae. Again 737 00:48:05,160 --> 00:48:08,600 Speaker 1: about Morrison. You can read the allegations that we just 738 00:48:08,680 --> 00:48:11,839 Speaker 1: mentioned in that other article SNP activists killed over child 739 00:48:11,960 --> 00:48:18,160 Speaker 1: sex files, Scotsman the truths activist William mccraye's tragic death. Yes, 740 00:48:18,719 --> 00:48:21,360 Speaker 1: read all of this stuff and you can see what 741 00:48:21,400 --> 00:48:26,080 Speaker 1: we're talking about, especially just as as the web seems 742 00:48:26,120 --> 00:48:31,279 Speaker 1: to tangle in upon itself. Really interesting stuff here, but 743 00:48:31,600 --> 00:48:35,080 Speaker 1: Morrison in particular as someone who knew him really well, 744 00:48:36,360 --> 00:48:41,000 Speaker 1: it's a good source, close, close friends. Uh So mcbray's 745 00:48:41,040 --> 00:48:45,440 Speaker 1: friends and others interested in the case, including the president 746 00:48:45,640 --> 00:48:49,840 Speaker 1: of the SNP at the time, started to be certain 747 00:48:49,880 --> 00:48:53,600 Speaker 1: they were being stone walled by all official channels, and 748 00:48:53,640 --> 00:48:57,480 Speaker 1: this led other folks like Mark McNichol to set up 749 00:48:57,480 --> 00:49:01,280 Speaker 1: an independent campaign, something called the This for Willie Campaign. 750 00:49:02,000 --> 00:49:05,560 Speaker 1: The Justice for Willie Campaign launched its own investigation because 751 00:49:05,560 --> 00:49:10,080 Speaker 1: the government refused to conduct further inquiries. They hired two 752 00:49:10,120 --> 00:49:12,839 Speaker 1: p I s to re interview witnesses from the time 753 00:49:12,840 --> 00:49:17,759 Speaker 1: of mcray's death. The results were published in and the 754 00:49:17,880 --> 00:49:21,240 Speaker 1: campaign said they were unable to find any new evidence 755 00:49:21,320 --> 00:49:25,759 Speaker 1: to undermine that suicide verdict. It's also worth noting that 756 00:49:25,920 --> 00:49:30,120 Speaker 1: some of Willie's own relatives don't believe he was murdered, 757 00:49:30,840 --> 00:49:35,560 Speaker 1: especially not by m I five or Special Services. Fergus mcray, 758 00:49:35,760 --> 00:49:41,680 Speaker 1: his brother, has consistently agreed with the official suicide verdict 759 00:49:41,840 --> 00:49:44,399 Speaker 1: and does not give credence to claims of cover up 760 00:49:44,760 --> 00:49:49,440 Speaker 1: or conspiracy. For now, That's where the case stands. Was 761 00:49:49,560 --> 00:49:52,839 Speaker 1: mcray driven to suicide by stress despite being on the 762 00:49:52,840 --> 00:49:57,000 Speaker 1: cusp of several, you know, great legal victories and battles. 763 00:49:57,480 --> 00:50:00,440 Speaker 1: Was he murdered to prevent the public from learning what 764 00:50:00,520 --> 00:50:06,160 Speaker 1: he knew? And if so, by whom and for what reason? 765 00:50:06,719 --> 00:50:09,360 Speaker 1: And will the truth of his death and what he 766 00:50:09,400 --> 00:50:12,600 Speaker 1: may or may not have discovered remains something they don't 767 00:50:12,680 --> 00:50:15,799 Speaker 1: want you to know. Yeah, we we don't know the 768 00:50:15,840 --> 00:50:18,399 Speaker 1: answers to these questions, did you see the thing? Ben? 769 00:50:18,840 --> 00:50:20,840 Speaker 1: I forget which article says of this, but one of 770 00:50:20,880 --> 00:50:25,480 Speaker 1: them says, or it's an allegation that William McCrae had 771 00:50:25,520 --> 00:50:30,399 Speaker 1: already been handed a few driving under the influence offenses, 772 00:50:30,800 --> 00:50:35,799 Speaker 1: and the allegation is that he was aware like he 773 00:50:35,840 --> 00:50:39,080 Speaker 1: crashed his car because he had been drinking while driving 774 00:50:39,280 --> 00:50:44,040 Speaker 1: to his other house and he killed himself out of embarrassment, 775 00:50:44,080 --> 00:50:47,279 Speaker 1: knowing that the third offense would be really bad. I 776 00:50:47,280 --> 00:50:49,720 Speaker 1: I don't know if I give any credence to that story, 777 00:50:49,760 --> 00:50:52,680 Speaker 1: but it is at least something to think about while 778 00:50:52,680 --> 00:50:56,120 Speaker 1: it's out here. There's a report that there was an 779 00:50:56,160 --> 00:50:59,200 Speaker 1: encounter between McRae and someone else. I don't know if 780 00:50:59,239 --> 00:51:02,719 Speaker 1: it was Morrison or someone else, but they stated that 781 00:51:02,840 --> 00:51:07,239 Speaker 1: just as he was leaving Glasgow, he had two bottles 782 00:51:07,520 --> 00:51:10,600 Speaker 1: of whiskey or alcohol and they had a bit of 783 00:51:10,600 --> 00:51:12,960 Speaker 1: an exchange and he was excited that he was going 784 00:51:13,000 --> 00:51:16,239 Speaker 1: to his essentially vacation house for a couple of days off, 785 00:51:16,280 --> 00:51:18,359 Speaker 1: for a week or two off, and he was going 786 00:51:18,400 --> 00:51:22,240 Speaker 1: to enjoy both bottles with a small dram for the evening. 787 00:51:23,160 --> 00:51:26,000 Speaker 1: So there's definitely an indication if you were to believe 788 00:51:26,000 --> 00:51:28,439 Speaker 1: those stories that he was going to be drinking that night, 789 00:51:29,000 --> 00:51:31,880 Speaker 1: just you know, did he partake beforehand? We don't know 790 00:51:31,960 --> 00:51:36,080 Speaker 1: because we don't have toxicology because there was not in 791 00:51:36,160 --> 00:51:41,080 Speaker 1: an initial assessment ton So these questions remain and we 792 00:51:41,280 --> 00:51:45,480 Speaker 1: want to hear from you listeners in Scotland. Listeners abroad. 793 00:51:45,600 --> 00:51:49,440 Speaker 1: Anybody familiar with this case? What do you think happened 794 00:51:49,719 --> 00:51:53,879 Speaker 1: to Willie McCrae and why? Let us know. We try 795 00:51:53,960 --> 00:51:59,280 Speaker 1: to be easy to find online. Yes, on Facebook and Twitter. 796 00:51:59,360 --> 00:52:03,000 Speaker 1: We are can spiracy stuff on Instagram, conspiracy stuff show 797 00:52:03,440 --> 00:52:09,400 Speaker 1: on YouTube, conspiracy stuff again on MTG arena, conspiracy stuff. 798 00:52:10,200 --> 00:52:14,160 Speaker 1: Um yeah, I'm still I'm still working through that. I'm 799 00:52:14,160 --> 00:52:16,680 Speaker 1: gonna I'm gonna get on arena. You gotta find me. 800 00:52:17,000 --> 00:52:18,680 Speaker 1: It's really easy to friend. I didn't know you could 801 00:52:18,719 --> 00:52:21,879 Speaker 1: easily friend people. Okay, yeah, well I'll try to get 802 00:52:21,880 --> 00:52:24,319 Speaker 1: on it this weekend. But as you know, I have 803 00:52:24,880 --> 00:52:28,080 Speaker 1: you and I have a super secret project that takes 804 00:52:28,200 --> 00:52:32,120 Speaker 1: a lot of you have to do all the work. No, no, no, no, 805 00:52:32,400 --> 00:52:36,200 Speaker 1: we're double dragoning it. You can also, if you don't 806 00:52:36,239 --> 00:52:39,160 Speaker 1: care to sip the social meats, UH, you can give 807 00:52:39,239 --> 00:52:42,000 Speaker 1: us a phone call directly. We've got a phone number. 808 00:52:42,160 --> 00:52:45,680 Speaker 1: It is one eight three three st d w y 809 00:52:45,800 --> 00:52:50,160 Speaker 1: t K three minutes. Those three minutes belong to you 810 00:52:50,320 --> 00:52:53,879 Speaker 1: and to you alone. Give us, give us a cool 811 00:52:54,000 --> 00:52:56,040 Speaker 1: nickname to refer to you as let us know if 812 00:52:56,040 --> 00:52:58,879 Speaker 1: we can use your voice and your message on air, 813 00:52:59,280 --> 00:53:03,000 Speaker 1: and then UH spilled the conspiracy beings, shoot the conspiracy 814 00:53:03,120 --> 00:53:06,680 Speaker 1: breathe with us. Especially love it when we hear suggestions 815 00:53:06,719 --> 00:53:09,840 Speaker 1: for new topics that you think your fellow conspiracy realist 816 00:53:09,880 --> 00:53:14,040 Speaker 1: would enjoy. If you have a story and experience an 817 00:53:14,120 --> 00:53:17,680 Speaker 1: idea that needs more than three minutes, don't feel like 818 00:53:17,719 --> 00:53:19,799 Speaker 1: you have to keep calling the phone number. Don't feel 819 00:53:19,800 --> 00:53:21,919 Speaker 1: like you have to edit yourself. We have one way 820 00:53:21,960 --> 00:53:25,000 Speaker 1: for you to contact us, any time of day, any 821 00:53:25,040 --> 00:53:28,000 Speaker 1: time of year, anywhere you are with an Internet connection. 822 00:53:28,360 --> 00:53:32,000 Speaker 1: You can write to us directly. We read every email 823 00:53:32,080 --> 00:53:36,080 Speaker 1: we get where we are conspiracy at i heart radio 824 00:53:36,360 --> 00:53:39,680 Speaker 1: dot com and before we go, shout out to you 825 00:53:39,840 --> 00:54:02,360 Speaker 1: Sam and your bike vigilantes. Stuff they don't want you 826 00:54:02,400 --> 00:54:05,040 Speaker 1: to know is a production of I heart Radio. For 827 00:54:05,120 --> 00:54:07,480 Speaker 1: more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the i heart 828 00:54:07,560 --> 00:54:10,359 Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your 829 00:54:10,360 --> 00:54:11,040 Speaker 1: favorite shows.