1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:03,120 Speaker 1: Welcome to Worst Year Ever, A production of I Heart 2 00:00:03,240 --> 00:00:23,119 Speaker 1: Radio Together Everything. So don't goodness willakers this year is 3 00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:29,200 Speaker 1: not the best that I've experienced. I'm Robert g Heck, 4 00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:33,040 Speaker 1: Garoney and jam I couldn't agree more. I'm Cody Johnston 5 00:00:33,240 --> 00:00:36,320 Speaker 1: and Dolly Guys. I think it's going pretty well. I'm 6 00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:41,400 Speaker 1: Katie Stole. That is well. I guess we should spend 7 00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:43,879 Speaker 1: the next hour or so discussing whether or not this 8 00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:46,240 Speaker 1: year is very good or not, since clearly that question 9 00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:49,559 Speaker 1: hasn't been answered by the title of the show, we're 10 00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:52,839 Speaker 1: still we're grappling with it. Quick poll, quick pull in 11 00:00:52,880 --> 00:00:58,640 Speaker 1: the chat. Good year, no less than good? Yeah, like 12 00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:01,560 Speaker 1: if it's like, if it's good, retweet if it's not. 13 00:01:04,640 --> 00:01:07,840 Speaker 1: Let's get onto the actual subject of the episode that 14 00:01:07,880 --> 00:01:11,680 Speaker 1: we're doing today, so that today we'll have an episode. 15 00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:17,360 Speaker 1: We love having episodes, don't we focus? El Katie, Cody, 16 00:01:17,600 --> 00:01:20,520 Speaker 1: what do you? How do you? What's your opinion on 17 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:25,039 Speaker 1: Q and on UH jury is still out? I think 18 00:01:25,080 --> 00:01:31,319 Speaker 1: you think so. I think it's dangerous and sad. Yeah, 19 00:01:31,319 --> 00:01:33,479 Speaker 1: that's those are those are the two words I would use. 20 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:35,880 Speaker 1: I would if I had to pick two. Try to 21 00:01:35,920 --> 00:01:40,800 Speaker 1: make some joke but no dangerous and sad and um, 22 00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:47,280 Speaker 1: disturbing and depressing. Yeah, all of the above and hard 23 00:01:47,319 --> 00:01:52,760 Speaker 1: to completely understand. Yeah, yeah, it's it's very complicated and 24 00:01:52,960 --> 00:01:58,240 Speaker 1: very frustrating and very very dangerous. And uh, I think 25 00:01:58,280 --> 00:02:01,560 Speaker 1: what's What's something that I think I want to highlight 26 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:04,640 Speaker 1: is that it took a long time for everybody in 27 00:02:04,720 --> 00:02:06,920 Speaker 1: like the mainstream media to start to get on the 28 00:02:06,960 --> 00:02:09,360 Speaker 1: same page about number one, Q and On being worth 29 00:02:09,400 --> 00:02:12,280 Speaker 1: talking about, and number two the fact that actually this 30 00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:15,639 Speaker 1: is a very important story. Uh. And today our guest 31 00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:17,960 Speaker 1: is somebody who for the last like I don't know, 32 00:02:18,040 --> 00:02:20,640 Speaker 1: since I've known her, which is close to four years now, 33 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:24,000 Speaker 1: has been like repeatedly yelling at the entire world to 34 00:02:24,120 --> 00:02:26,800 Speaker 1: please pay attention to what the hell is happening with 35 00:02:26,919 --> 00:02:29,920 Speaker 1: Q and on because it's important and dangerous and terrifying. 36 00:02:30,120 --> 00:02:33,560 Speaker 1: And she was yelling about that years ago when the 37 00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:36,520 Speaker 1: only people who were close to the mainstream and talking 38 00:02:36,520 --> 00:02:39,480 Speaker 1: about Q and on would just make fun of it. Um. 39 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:41,840 Speaker 1: And now that there's like twenty people who might wind 40 00:02:41,880 --> 00:02:44,639 Speaker 1: up in Congress who are tied to it one way 41 00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:48,840 Speaker 1: or the other. Um, she's she's still trying to warn people. Uh, 42 00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:52,560 Speaker 1: this is Sarah high Tower. Welcome to the show. Hi? 43 00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:55,640 Speaker 1: How are you? Sarah high Tower? I am of Boltron 44 00:02:55,720 --> 00:02:59,280 Speaker 1: of sadness and compassion, And I told you, yeah, you 45 00:02:59,360 --> 00:03:02,760 Speaker 1: did tell me? Um and what do you? What do you? 46 00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:05,800 Speaker 1: Let's let's let's go back in time a little bit. Sarah, 47 00:03:05,880 --> 00:03:09,600 Speaker 1: when did you realize? Because obviously Q and on you know, 48 00:03:09,639 --> 00:03:11,560 Speaker 1: starts happening in this weird look like it's a it's 49 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:13,840 Speaker 1: a four chant thing where like people the drops start 50 00:03:13,880 --> 00:03:16,960 Speaker 1: going up and this like weird little community starts to form. 51 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:19,280 Speaker 1: At what point where you like, ah, this is going 52 00:03:19,320 --> 00:03:21,320 Speaker 1: to be a problem because the Internet has all sorts 53 00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:24,280 Speaker 1: of weird little communities and most of them don't wind 54 00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:27,440 Speaker 1: up potentially putting twenty people in Congress. So at what 55 00:03:27,480 --> 00:03:32,079 Speaker 1: point where you like this? This is an issue the 56 00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:38,760 Speaker 1: mid to late shortly, I think after the Omshurikyo executions, 57 00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:42,200 Speaker 1: so that would have been a little bit after July. Uh. 58 00:03:42,320 --> 00:03:45,160 Speaker 1: Let's see, you had the visibility at the Trump rally, 59 00:03:45,480 --> 00:03:47,960 Speaker 1: you had the Hoover Dan standoff, and I had a 60 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:50,440 Speaker 1: friend I know in real life who came to me 61 00:03:50,440 --> 00:03:53,280 Speaker 1: and asking me for help because her her parents weren't 62 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:56,400 Speaker 1: talking to her anymore. They were just watching YouTube videos 63 00:03:56,400 --> 00:03:59,960 Speaker 1: about Q and on and it's I think you didn't 64 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:04,760 Speaker 1: just mentioned ALM Shinrikyo for um uh for no reason. 65 00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:07,880 Speaker 1: There you've drawn a number of comparisons between and and 66 00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:10,080 Speaker 1: For folks who are listening, we have never recovered this 67 00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:12,600 Speaker 1: and behind the Bastards or anything, but I guess a 68 00:04:12,600 --> 00:04:15,160 Speaker 1: brief overview of O Shinrikyo is that they were kind 69 00:04:15,160 --> 00:04:20,000 Speaker 1: of a um an apocalyptic cult that gained an enormous 70 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:23,560 Speaker 1: amount of power, including some political power in Japan, made 71 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:27,560 Speaker 1: some very dangerous weapons, carried out a number of attacks, 72 00:04:27,960 --> 00:04:31,080 Speaker 1: including a sarin gas attack on the Tokyo Subway that 73 00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:34,960 Speaker 1: would be kind of the barest cliffs notes. You have 74 00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:39,159 Speaker 1: mentioned repeatedly a lot of similarities you see between ALM 75 00:04:39,320 --> 00:04:40,800 Speaker 1: and and Q went on. You want to talk a 76 00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:43,159 Speaker 1: little bit about that, Yeah, But first of all, I 77 00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:46,440 Speaker 1: kind of um it's important to correct you. They they 78 00:04:46,800 --> 00:04:49,560 Speaker 1: had some people who had sort of infiltrated like police 79 00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:54,120 Speaker 1: departments and things like that. But when they ran candidates 80 00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:57,800 Speaker 1: for the House elections, so like the Japanese Congress elections 81 00:04:58,120 --> 00:05:01,960 Speaker 1: in that they lost all twenty five of the people 82 00:05:01,960 --> 00:05:09,520 Speaker 1: lost obviously, So um, I'm already doing better. Yeah, job 83 00:05:10,320 --> 00:05:17,520 Speaker 1: and m But let's see question. No, it's really not. 84 00:05:17,720 --> 00:05:21,240 Speaker 1: I'm very concerned, but you're asking about the similarities that 85 00:05:21,279 --> 00:05:24,799 Speaker 1: I see in between something like oh and C and on. Okay, 86 00:05:24,839 --> 00:05:27,600 Speaker 1: Well there's the cultic no you obviously, and the fact 87 00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:30,839 Speaker 1: that they're they're both a sort of apocalyptic theo political 88 00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:35,520 Speaker 1: high demand groups. They're very cultic, very absolutist in nature, 89 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:39,640 Speaker 1: and at the core of the radical belief system, like 90 00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:41,200 Speaker 1: when you really started to peel it back and you 91 00:05:41,240 --> 00:05:44,960 Speaker 1: really start to dig through it, it's it's very anti semitic. 92 00:05:46,360 --> 00:05:48,320 Speaker 1: They have a lot on the same anti semitic cannarts. 93 00:05:48,320 --> 00:05:54,960 Speaker 1: It's cobble, the deep state, the swamp, the illuminati, them 94 00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:57,000 Speaker 1: just pretend up at the local triple brackets if you 95 00:05:57,000 --> 00:06:00,200 Speaker 1: get coming from. So, yeah, no, it's the There are 96 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:02,240 Speaker 1: a lot of similarities. You don't have to have a 97 00:06:02,279 --> 00:06:08,440 Speaker 1: physical compound to be a cultic organization, and you don't 98 00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:10,680 Speaker 1: have to have really a cult leader like I think 99 00:06:10,680 --> 00:06:13,040 Speaker 1: there's a lot of folks who don't understand it well, 100 00:06:13,040 --> 00:06:15,280 Speaker 1: who places a lot of importance on figuring out who 101 00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:17,520 Speaker 1: Q is. And I guess maybe there was a point 102 00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:20,960 Speaker 1: at which that would have mattered, um, But I honestly 103 00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:23,480 Speaker 1: don't even know if that's true, and it certainly doesn't 104 00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:26,640 Speaker 1: matter now I think it does. You can get to 105 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:28,880 Speaker 1: like in terms of like actually stopping it. What is 106 00:06:28,920 --> 00:06:30,680 Speaker 1: the what would be the value of like figuring out 107 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:36,080 Speaker 1: who this guy is? The guy posting now the people 108 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:39,239 Speaker 1: posts to you now, yeah, the individuals, because it seems 109 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:41,640 Speaker 1: like it's more than one of them. Certainly. I mean 110 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:43,839 Speaker 1: the theory, the working theory, and the one that I 111 00:06:43,839 --> 00:06:46,960 Speaker 1: personally ascribed to is that or it's changed hands over 112 00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:48,880 Speaker 1: the past few years. And if you look at who 113 00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:53,799 Speaker 1: run in eight con, it's I think that's a person 114 00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:56,320 Speaker 1: doing to you now. But we'll get into that later. 115 00:06:56,520 --> 00:06:59,200 Speaker 1: I'm working on something about that. But you're asking what 116 00:06:59,240 --> 00:07:03,480 Speaker 1: the value might be in actually knowing in terms of 117 00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:05,600 Speaker 1: you don't want to do what, want to profile the 118 00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:07,760 Speaker 1: cult leader, you don't want to be to get inside 119 00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:10,360 Speaker 1: their head. I think there might be a use in 120 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:13,760 Speaker 1: doing that for um, for the sake of like a 121 00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:16,120 Speaker 1: good history. But do you think that's actually going to 122 00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:20,680 Speaker 1: help in taking in like in de radicalizing this this 123 00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:24,480 Speaker 1: situation and actually like like dealing with the cult itself. 124 00:07:24,920 --> 00:07:27,360 Speaker 1: Like at this point, nobody's going to believe you if 125 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:30,160 Speaker 1: you say that the that that, like, nobody who's affected 126 00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:31,920 Speaker 1: by Q, I don't think would believe you if you, 127 00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:33,920 Speaker 1: like you point out this person did it or this 128 00:07:33,960 --> 00:07:36,080 Speaker 1: person did it, like from a perspective of making this 129 00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:40,480 Speaker 1: less dangerous, right, I know, and you're right about that, 130 00:07:40,520 --> 00:07:43,880 Speaker 1: But I still think that there's there's value in figuring 131 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:46,320 Speaker 1: out whom all has posted as to you and just 132 00:07:46,360 --> 00:07:49,840 Speaker 1: how this they grew. Who's controlling it now? Because I mean, 133 00:07:50,600 --> 00:07:54,680 Speaker 1: we're on the outside, we got work to do. I 134 00:07:54,680 --> 00:07:58,680 Speaker 1: want to know. Yeah, I'd like I shouldn't have said 135 00:07:58,800 --> 00:08:00,960 Speaker 1: there's no point in figure it out, but I don't 136 00:08:00,960 --> 00:08:04,400 Speaker 1: think it. I don't think it would stop what's happening, right, Like, 137 00:08:04,440 --> 00:08:06,480 Speaker 1: I think there's an there's a belief that like if 138 00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:09,680 Speaker 1: you figure out who Q is, then you can tell people, hey, 139 00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:13,680 Speaker 1: look this person who's clearly a grifter. Yeah. Yeah, It's 140 00:08:13,760 --> 00:08:16,920 Speaker 1: like it's like asking Donald Trump to denounce Q and 141 00:08:16,920 --> 00:08:19,280 Speaker 1: he says sure, and that that's not gonna do anything. 142 00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:23,640 Speaker 1: Like you know, no, because at this point, one of 143 00:08:23,680 --> 00:08:26,080 Speaker 1: the things that they say, like the cultic jargon, like 144 00:08:26,120 --> 00:08:28,560 Speaker 1: one of the thought terminating cliches that they say a 145 00:08:28,560 --> 00:08:38,080 Speaker 1: lot is disinformation is necessary. Yeah, that's the movement I remember, 146 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:42,640 Speaker 1: which is terrifying. Yeah. I think Travis, like Travis knew 147 00:08:42,840 --> 00:08:44,800 Speaker 1: it was going to be Travis view of the Q 148 00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:50,360 Speaker 1: and On anonymous podcast. Travis, So, how do you you 149 00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:52,079 Speaker 1: do want to walk us through in your mind? How 150 00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:54,840 Speaker 1: this kind of like one of the questions that I 151 00:08:54,880 --> 00:08:58,640 Speaker 1: have when I'm trying to like analyze this, this this cult, 152 00:08:58,760 --> 00:09:01,439 Speaker 1: this massive problem them that we're all dealing with, is like, 153 00:09:02,559 --> 00:09:07,600 Speaker 1: why what what aspects of like the culture I guess 154 00:09:08,520 --> 00:09:10,680 Speaker 1: of quan On, the cultic milieu that you've got going 155 00:09:10,679 --> 00:09:12,720 Speaker 1: on here, Like what aspects of it allowed it to 156 00:09:12,760 --> 00:09:16,040 Speaker 1: reach its state of prominence to kind of escape because 157 00:09:16,040 --> 00:09:18,680 Speaker 1: you've got this like Petrie Dish, this Internet, Petrie Dish, 158 00:09:18,679 --> 00:09:21,839 Speaker 1: of these all these different communities and subcultures, and most 159 00:09:21,880 --> 00:09:25,400 Speaker 1: of them don't rise to the level where we need 160 00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:29,079 Speaker 1: to be concerned about them, right, Um, and Q and 161 00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:32,800 Speaker 1: On grew in is growing into something. Um, but it's 162 00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:35,240 Speaker 1: it's certainly like it it got through that great filter 163 00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:37,760 Speaker 1: sort of situation. What is it about Q and On 164 00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:41,640 Speaker 1: that you think? Let it get out? So like so 165 00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:44,280 Speaker 1: to speak, let it escape, let it break its its bonds. 166 00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:48,400 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't why don't you compare it to 167 00:09:48,480 --> 00:09:53,120 Speaker 1: something like the quote unquote alt right, Yeah, Like it's 168 00:09:53,160 --> 00:09:55,920 Speaker 1: just there and it keeps growing and people find their 169 00:09:55,920 --> 00:09:59,760 Speaker 1: way into it, and then people start to red pill others. 170 00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:02,000 Speaker 1: That's why I'm comparing it to the right, because then 171 00:10:02,040 --> 00:10:03,959 Speaker 1: Q and On and I showed you one of the 172 00:10:03,960 --> 00:10:06,079 Speaker 1: first conversations we had. I was showing you these screen 173 00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:09,520 Speaker 1: caps on the eight cham boards and they were literally 174 00:10:09,559 --> 00:10:13,400 Speaker 1: teaching boomers how to red pill their families and stuff 175 00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:19,160 Speaker 1: like it's about uh yeah, it's the beginning of a hierarchy, 176 00:10:19,240 --> 00:10:22,719 Speaker 1: even with the mean squads and stuff. But look, Robert Man, 177 00:10:22,760 --> 00:10:26,079 Speaker 1: I don't really know how to answer that question because 178 00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:28,440 Speaker 1: I've just been watching it and like kind of plull 179 00:10:28,559 --> 00:10:30,840 Speaker 1: my hair out and freaking out because it looks like 180 00:10:31,280 --> 00:10:33,480 Speaker 1: it looks like the quote unquote al right. It looks 181 00:10:33,520 --> 00:10:38,920 Speaker 1: like any any predatory group that just keeps reaching out 182 00:10:38,920 --> 00:10:41,320 Speaker 1: and getting more people. And the thing about Q and On, 183 00:10:41,679 --> 00:10:45,560 Speaker 1: it's very fluid. It's like a little Katamari ball. You 184 00:10:45,640 --> 00:10:48,880 Speaker 1: can't do little new agers and your yoga people. It 185 00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:52,000 Speaker 1: doesn't always have to be your quote like your red 186 00:10:52,040 --> 00:10:55,240 Speaker 1: hats or whatever, Right, no, it doesn't even have to 187 00:10:55,280 --> 00:11:03,240 Speaker 1: be Americans. No, yea, now like everybody, I mean, all 188 00:11:03,280 --> 00:11:07,280 Speaker 1: the methods that they're using are obviously online. That's why 189 00:11:07,280 --> 00:11:09,719 Speaker 1: it's so effective, and the misinformation and connecting all these 190 00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:14,000 Speaker 1: people and now so many people are stuck inside. I 191 00:11:14,080 --> 00:11:17,640 Speaker 1: feel like that's really exacerbating. Yeah, there's actually grow quite 192 00:11:17,640 --> 00:11:21,040 Speaker 1: a bit of data on how the shutdown has helped 193 00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:24,080 Speaker 1: things to grow. Um that's been coming out for a while. 194 00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:27,360 Speaker 1: I mean yeah, and then it gets just conflated with 195 00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:30,880 Speaker 1: other things and other conspiracies, and it's just such an entryway. 196 00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:35,560 Speaker 1: I point to those doctor videos of as being entry 197 00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:39,440 Speaker 1: ways for a lot of people, um demons looking into 198 00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:43,320 Speaker 1: yes and then looking into conspiracy theories. And I've mentioned 199 00:11:43,320 --> 00:11:45,800 Speaker 1: it on the show before, people that not necessarily are 200 00:11:45,840 --> 00:11:48,560 Speaker 1: respect but like people that I've known in my life 201 00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:53,280 Speaker 1: being a lurned in by this. It's alarming. Yeah. The 202 00:11:53,320 --> 00:11:56,280 Speaker 1: Wall Street Journal reports that the average membership and ten 203 00:11:56,440 --> 00:11:59,200 Speaker 1: large public q and on Facebook groups grew by six 204 00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:08,439 Speaker 1: from March through July. Oh god, yeah, expected and upsetting. Yeah, 205 00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:12,000 Speaker 1: that's a problem now, But I don't think it's all organic. 206 00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:18,520 Speaker 1: I mean obviously, right, like, there's no way what so 207 00:12:18,600 --> 00:12:21,080 Speaker 1: because I agree with you, I don't think it's all organic, 208 00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:23,120 Speaker 1: But there is a question of like what aspects of 209 00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:26,000 Speaker 1: this are organic and just sort of how the internet 210 00:12:26,040 --> 00:12:29,600 Speaker 1: and social media works and what aspects aren't in in 211 00:12:30,120 --> 00:12:32,840 Speaker 1: than to what extent are they inorganic? Are they inorganic 212 00:12:32,880 --> 00:12:36,080 Speaker 1: in that you've got because like, one one thing that 213 00:12:36,160 --> 00:12:39,080 Speaker 1: I see as a definite inorganic factor in q and 214 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:42,319 Speaker 1: ons growth is the fact that it was pretty clear 215 00:12:42,320 --> 00:12:45,120 Speaker 1: early on to Facebook into some other social media sites 216 00:12:45,160 --> 00:12:46,920 Speaker 1: that there was money to be made in this, and 217 00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:51,480 Speaker 1: so aspects of their recommendation algorithm and stuff, um really 218 00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:55,280 Speaker 1: rewarded q and on content because of the money, and 219 00:12:55,360 --> 00:12:58,440 Speaker 1: that helped this thing grow. But I also suspect that 220 00:12:58,520 --> 00:13:02,199 Speaker 1: there's like that's kind of like the soulist, cash oriented, 221 00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:07,560 Speaker 1: uh aspect of it, But there's there's more going on, 222 00:13:07,679 --> 00:13:10,440 Speaker 1: And I'm curious, like what what aspects in your head? 223 00:13:10,520 --> 00:13:13,040 Speaker 1: What what do you think is inorganic here? Like what 224 00:13:13,080 --> 00:13:14,520 Speaker 1: do you what are the things that kind of you're 225 00:13:14,559 --> 00:13:19,360 Speaker 1: looking towards. That's I'll put it to you like this, 226 00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:24,360 Speaker 1: if you wanted to start problems, if for any reason 227 00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:27,680 Speaker 1: it was in your best interests to I don't know, 228 00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:30,920 Speaker 1: kick up some dirt, you get some civil unrest going. 229 00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:34,120 Speaker 1: I mean, look at that, Look at a little fracture. 230 00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:36,319 Speaker 1: You just have to apply pressure to that, right, to 231 00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:41,160 Speaker 1: the fractures growing, right, And that could be domestic interests, 232 00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:44,760 Speaker 1: it could be a state interests, it could be any thing. Really, 233 00:13:45,920 --> 00:13:49,560 Speaker 1: you know, there are multiple groups with multiple interests and 234 00:13:49,880 --> 00:13:52,960 Speaker 1: maybe not the best interests for us. And that's really 235 00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:54,920 Speaker 1: what I'm going to say about that right now. Yeah, 236 00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:59,400 Speaker 1: like I think there's interests converge. Yeah, I mean when 237 00:13:59,679 --> 00:14:02,800 Speaker 1: I think this is kind of the important thing when 238 00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:06,040 Speaker 1: you think about sort of foreign meddling in the election 239 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:09,160 Speaker 1: UM or just sort of like culture jamming within the 240 00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:13,840 Speaker 1: United States UM. And obviously, like now that's all turned 241 00:14:13,840 --> 00:14:16,120 Speaker 1: into there's aspects of it that have kind of evolved 242 00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:18,600 Speaker 1: into their own conspiracy theory. But like there is a 243 00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:21,400 Speaker 1: real problem there, and I like the way that you 244 00:14:21,400 --> 00:14:25,120 Speaker 1: you visualize it is sort of like it's hydraulic fracturing 245 00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:27,600 Speaker 1: of a culture, right, Like it's you you find this 246 00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:30,600 Speaker 1: crack in the skin of the culture and then you 247 00:14:30,680 --> 00:14:35,920 Speaker 1: just start pumping uh fluid into it um until it, 248 00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:42,120 Speaker 1: you know, releases the cultural gasoline. Okay, the metaphor breaks 249 00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:46,680 Speaker 1: down at a certain point, look about it. Yeah, said 250 00:14:56,840 --> 00:15:03,800 Speaker 1: everything the things I've brought you Sarah as you started. Um, 251 00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:06,680 Speaker 1: you were the first person who, like may convinced me 252 00:15:06,840 --> 00:15:10,000 Speaker 1: that Okay, this is a serious problem, and it's only 253 00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:14,280 Speaker 1: going to become a more serious problem. Um. You've been 254 00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:19,200 Speaker 1: yelling at people about Q went on for quite a while, 255 00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:23,840 Speaker 1: and I think very um perceptively, UM yelling about Q 256 00:15:24,040 --> 00:15:27,560 Speaker 1: and on, Um, what do you want people to know? Like, 257 00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:30,080 Speaker 1: He's like, what is it that you would like? An 258 00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:32,800 Speaker 1: audience of folks who probably haven't given too much thought 259 00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:36,600 Speaker 1: to this other than like every couple of weeks reading 260 00:15:36,640 --> 00:15:40,120 Speaker 1: another story and growing increasingly concerned. So like not people 261 00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:42,600 Speaker 1: who rejected to people who I think like most of 262 00:15:42,640 --> 00:15:44,680 Speaker 1: our readers have just kind of been like, what is 263 00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:47,960 Speaker 1: happening with this? This appears to be a problem. What 264 00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:50,040 Speaker 1: can be done about it? What do you want those people? 265 00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:52,040 Speaker 1: What do you what are kind of like the most 266 00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:56,760 Speaker 1: important things for them to know? I think just simply 267 00:15:56,920 --> 00:16:02,240 Speaker 1: mocking the followers, sure it does more damage than it 268 00:16:02,280 --> 00:16:05,120 Speaker 1: than it helps. I think really the only person of 269 00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:08,720 Speaker 1: that you know, benefits from just mocking the followers. People 270 00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:10,960 Speaker 1: mocking the followers because they get to feel you know, 271 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:15,560 Speaker 1: superior to someone. Nobody is immune to propaganda, Nobody is 272 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:20,920 Speaker 1: immune to persuasion or undo influence. So the thing is 273 00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:23,840 Speaker 1: like fe people like to say, like, well, I'd never 274 00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:26,720 Speaker 1: end up in a cult. I don't know. I mean 275 00:16:26,880 --> 00:16:30,640 Speaker 1: maybe you could, maybe not this one. But if you 276 00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:32,560 Speaker 1: find yourself the wrong place at the wrong time and 277 00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:34,880 Speaker 1: the right person saying the right things, you actually easily 278 00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:37,880 Speaker 1: could end up in a cult. Yeah, you can end 279 00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:42,640 Speaker 1: up in abusive relationship is the same sort of abusive dynamics. Yeah, 280 00:16:42,680 --> 00:16:44,800 Speaker 1: that's the lesson a hot yoga has to teach all 281 00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:47,760 Speaker 1: of us. Oh Shirigyo started out as a hot yoga 282 00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:53,760 Speaker 1: studio in Japan. Actually, yeah, I think that's a really 283 00:16:54,120 --> 00:16:58,880 Speaker 1: important point um that we keep relearning in different ways, 284 00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:03,120 Speaker 1: or I do over the past year. Is uh, mocking 285 00:17:03,280 --> 00:17:07,480 Speaker 1: people or coming at it from the wrong angle just 286 00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:11,520 Speaker 1: puts other people's defenses up. They get even more dug 287 00:17:11,560 --> 00:17:19,840 Speaker 1: in to something if you immediately just consider them, you know, unreliable, 288 00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:22,280 Speaker 1: like you were talking about like you and I'd like 289 00:17:22,359 --> 00:17:25,280 Speaker 1: we go back right, yes, and like no, sort of 290 00:17:25,359 --> 00:17:27,240 Speaker 1: like convincing you and some people about the kid. Do 291 00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:32,639 Speaker 1: you remember like Thanksgiving around the holidays Oh no, I 292 00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:35,480 Speaker 1: would have been drunk the whole like four month period there. 293 00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:37,240 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I mean I was too. But see, there 294 00:17:37,320 --> 00:17:39,000 Speaker 1: was this there was this kind of trend, especially on 295 00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:42,040 Speaker 1: Thanksgiving on left Twitter circles and we are Twitter circles 296 00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:48,480 Speaker 1: and you know, oh yeah mocking. Yeah. Yeah, people would 297 00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:51,399 Speaker 1: talk about how like their their their family wasn't talking 298 00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:54,000 Speaker 1: to them anymore because they're into Q and on. And 299 00:17:54,119 --> 00:17:56,720 Speaker 1: there would be folks who were just like laughing about 300 00:17:56,800 --> 00:18:00,080 Speaker 1: that and taking great writer like now, yeah, I'm so 301 00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:03,639 Speaker 1: grateful I get to eat my delicious meal with all 302 00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:05,359 Speaker 1: of you Q people and it's like a piece of 303 00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:08,480 Speaker 1: bread and a cold hot dog and it's like, yeah, 304 00:18:08,560 --> 00:18:10,480 Speaker 1: you can look at it and go, that's I guess 305 00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:15,880 Speaker 1: that's funny, but like it's very sad. Uh. They're very vulnerable, isolated, 306 00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:20,160 Speaker 1: lonely people, and so of course they're finding that community there. 307 00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:22,399 Speaker 1: And if you just do that and you just make 308 00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:26,280 Speaker 1: fun of them, uh, they're gonna be pushed even closer together. 309 00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:30,840 Speaker 1: And also if you're just mocking them, you're also mocking 310 00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:34,359 Speaker 1: the family members that are losing loved ones to an 311 00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:40,320 Speaker 1: internet death cult. Yep, yeah yeah, And I mean it 312 00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:42,840 Speaker 1: also does kind of strike me. There's a way you 313 00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:44,880 Speaker 1: can kind of draw this back because like I made 314 00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:47,480 Speaker 1: a comment about hot yoga earlier, and it's actually it 315 00:18:47,560 --> 00:18:49,320 Speaker 1: wasn't even because of Iloum. It was because of the 316 00:18:49,359 --> 00:18:52,720 Speaker 1: Bickram guy, who also was a bit of a cult leader. Um. 317 00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:55,720 Speaker 1: There's a documentary about that too. But like, one of 318 00:18:55,800 --> 00:18:59,200 Speaker 1: the reasons I think that worked, and I'm assuming it 319 00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:01,080 Speaker 1: had some of the same things to do with like 320 00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:04,680 Speaker 1: White worked with Alme, is that doing hot yoga is 321 00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:07,679 Speaker 1: kind of like a mind altering experience. UM. And when 322 00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:11,520 Speaker 1: you're in a state where your mind is altered, charismatic 323 00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:15,480 Speaker 1: individuals are capable of having more of an impact on you. 324 00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:19,960 Speaker 1: And if you're trapped in your house alone and increasingly 325 00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:23,040 Speaker 1: isolated from your family, you know that this is even 326 00:19:23,080 --> 00:19:25,240 Speaker 1: more the case now that we're in a pandemic, which 327 00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:26,920 Speaker 1: is why you've seen it grow so much. But like, 328 00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:30,520 Speaker 1: that's a mind altering state of affairs. To being abandoned 329 00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:33,720 Speaker 1: by your family is like like and that draws you 330 00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:35,920 Speaker 1: in and makes things that maybe you would never have 331 00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:39,800 Speaker 1: done before seem like reasonable things to do. Which there 332 00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:41,639 Speaker 1: was a really good analysis done of the Q and 333 00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:44,960 Speaker 1: on fellow who um took his family on that terrifying 334 00:19:45,119 --> 00:19:48,359 Speaker 1: drive trying to flee from the police, and um like 335 00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:50,920 Speaker 1: very nearly got some of them killed. And somebody like 336 00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:55,159 Speaker 1: walked through his radicalization um process. And it was like 337 00:19:55,280 --> 00:19:57,679 Speaker 1: a month or two, you know, between when he started 338 00:19:57,760 --> 00:20:00,720 Speaker 1: watching Q and on content and when he attempted to 339 00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:04,480 Speaker 1: like flee from a police, like police chasing him in 340 00:20:04,520 --> 00:20:06,399 Speaker 1: a car with his kids and like risked all of 341 00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:08,680 Speaker 1: their lives. Like, it was a very short period of 342 00:20:08,760 --> 00:20:12,440 Speaker 1: time that this person got radicalized. And it's like that's 343 00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:15,879 Speaker 1: not a thing that happens because people are in a 344 00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:19,360 Speaker 1: normal mind state, right, Like, that's a thing that happens 345 00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:23,560 Speaker 1: because people for whatever reason, like hyper suggestibility isn't like 346 00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:27,399 Speaker 1: it necessarily an individual characteristic, I don't think, as much 347 00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:31,400 Speaker 1: as it is something that happens um to you when 348 00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:33,840 Speaker 1: you're in certain points in your life, right Like that's 349 00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:36,200 Speaker 1: the point of you. You two could be taken in 350 00:20:36,280 --> 00:20:39,879 Speaker 1: by a cult. Yeah, anyway, that's I don't know what 351 00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:43,600 Speaker 1: that was. I guess something that occurred to me just then. 352 00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:48,440 Speaker 1: I mentioned that the in a real life friend you know, 353 00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:50,639 Speaker 1: back into team is trying to give me help with 354 00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:53,960 Speaker 1: their parents and stuff. They said it was like the 355 00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:58,520 Speaker 1: same thing. It was just like almost overnight they started browsing. 356 00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:00,800 Speaker 1: I think it was like the above to secret forums 357 00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:04,119 Speaker 1: and and these these people like they are boomers and 358 00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:06,720 Speaker 1: they weren't even like Trump supporters. They were new age types. 359 00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:10,960 Speaker 1: They liked Diane teeny and stuff like that. And then 360 00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:13,520 Speaker 1: she said it was a columnist. Over night they were 361 00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:16,959 Speaker 1: just watching. I was like, what are Q tubers. They're like, oh, 362 00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:23,200 Speaker 1: they baked the breads. I'm like what, yeah, And it's 363 00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:27,600 Speaker 1: it's that's part of what allows this to that's part 364 00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:30,719 Speaker 1: of what's so frightening about this right because we've hit 365 00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:34,719 Speaker 1: the point now where because of the prominence q has Um, 366 00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:38,600 Speaker 1: it's I think going to start growing even faster and faster. 367 00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:40,679 Speaker 1: And sorry have been growing at a pretty significant rate. 368 00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:44,359 Speaker 1: So we're we're looking at the case where like you 369 00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:47,280 Speaker 1: can make a strong argument that it's the fastest growing 370 00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:51,399 Speaker 1: religion in the country at the moment um. And I 371 00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:55,680 Speaker 1: am very concerned about the growth we're going to see 372 00:21:55,760 --> 00:21:57,920 Speaker 1: over the next you know, four or five months in 373 00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:03,080 Speaker 1: particular Um. And I don't know what to do about it, 374 00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:06,600 Speaker 1: Like that's my issues. Sarah's like, i I've I've most 375 00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:08,600 Speaker 1: of my reporting on this matter has just sort of 376 00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:10,760 Speaker 1: been trying to get the work that you and a 377 00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:13,359 Speaker 1: couple of other people like Travis who seem to have 378 00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:16,520 Speaker 1: a handle on this, like help help get that into 379 00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:20,240 Speaker 1: the in front of other people's faces. But the question 380 00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:22,879 Speaker 1: that I've been continually left was left with is like 381 00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:27,000 Speaker 1: what do we do now? But that's the question everybody's 382 00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:34,160 Speaker 1: asking me, Yes, solve this problem right now? On our podcast, Sarah, Yes, 383 00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:37,199 Speaker 1: I need you to deprogram my mom. I'm like, okay, Well, 384 00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:40,440 Speaker 1: first of all, deprogramming isn't what you think it is. 385 00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:43,399 Speaker 1: Deprogramming means like locking them in a room and like 386 00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:48,160 Speaker 1: playing Jacob's laddern starving them and basically abusing them back 387 00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:51,200 Speaker 1: to what you think they were before. Yeah, that is 388 00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:55,680 Speaker 1: something people. Yeah, people believe that that is more like 389 00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:58,080 Speaker 1: it started and I think that like modern kind of 390 00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:01,359 Speaker 1: concept of CULTI deprogramming start it in nineteen seventy seven 391 00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:04,640 Speaker 1: with that guy Benji Carroll Um who was a member 392 00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:07,240 Speaker 1: of the Unification Church, which is like a a South 393 00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:10,960 Speaker 1: Korean New Age Christian moment movement. They're called the Moonies 394 00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:13,359 Speaker 1: is the other thing people call them. Um. They actually 395 00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:16,760 Speaker 1: own the Washington Times if you're aware of that particular 396 00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:21,840 Speaker 1: propaganda mouthpiece. UM. So this guy like gets kind of 397 00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:24,080 Speaker 1: drawn up in this cult and a bunch of his friends, 398 00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:27,359 Speaker 1: UM fly down from Quebec and like meet him at 399 00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:30,320 Speaker 1: a hotel in San Francisco and hold him captive for 400 00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:34,840 Speaker 1: days and to quote unquote de program him. UM. And 401 00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:39,040 Speaker 1: like what they did to him is not what you'd 402 00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:42,280 Speaker 1: call like a like a like a nice thing. UM. 403 00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:44,359 Speaker 1: And like that's I guess part of the problem because 404 00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:46,960 Speaker 1: like deep programming became more popular after this, and people 405 00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:51,200 Speaker 1: would like high hired deep programmers who a lot of 406 00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:55,280 Speaker 1: whom were very sketchuling sketchy individuals themselves. And it's um 407 00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:58,480 Speaker 1: a lot of the same techniques involved in deep programming 408 00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:00,960 Speaker 1: that like colts use to kind of bring people like 409 00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:04,560 Speaker 1: it was all very shady set of affairs UM. And 410 00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:08,119 Speaker 1: I don't think people realize the extent to which that's 411 00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:12,480 Speaker 1: still kind of the entire um de radicalization d programming, 412 00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:15,280 Speaker 1: Like a lot of it is um is a mix 413 00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:18,159 Speaker 1: of grifters and people who are just kind of different. 414 00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:20,960 Speaker 1: I don't know, a lot of it's very unsettling, Like 415 00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:24,560 Speaker 1: when you start talking about trying to very quickly alter 416 00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:28,000 Speaker 1: someone's mind. And when people are talking about like just 417 00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:31,600 Speaker 1: deep programming in the popular sense, what they're really talking about. 418 00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:35,920 Speaker 1: They're talking about things like exit counseling, exit groups, and 419 00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:39,960 Speaker 1: they're talking about like a strategic intervention approaches and things 420 00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:42,520 Speaker 1: like that. You know, they're talking about your Peachey's, your 421 00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:47,720 Speaker 1: Stephen Hassans, things like that, Exit USA, exit UK, things 422 00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:51,320 Speaker 1: like that. They're not talking about like nineteen seventy nine 423 00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:55,560 Speaker 1: Ted Patrick, go kidnapped my son pack from Children of 424 00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:58,040 Speaker 1: God or whatever and lock them in a room. Stuff. 425 00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:01,000 Speaker 1: But they don't have the history of ant de cult movement. 426 00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:03,879 Speaker 1: As if they don't know the history, they don't really know. 427 00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:07,600 Speaker 1: It's it's like brainwatching and deep programming, that's all they know. 428 00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:13,119 Speaker 1: So what what do you think actually helps here? Like 429 00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:19,119 Speaker 1: That's the kind of question I'm left with, is like, 430 00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:22,760 Speaker 1: how do you you have so many people who believe 431 00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:25,240 Speaker 1: who who are locked in a set of beliefs that 432 00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:31,000 Speaker 1: are fundamentally incompatible with the survival of our society, right, 433 00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:33,320 Speaker 1: Like if you have millions of people who think that 434 00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:37,240 Speaker 1: there's a vast pedophilic conspiracy that reaches every level of 435 00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:43,200 Speaker 1: government and has been embedding um uh messages to society 436 00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:47,840 Speaker 1: in every sort of form of media imaginable. That can't 437 00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:50,440 Speaker 1: go on forever, can it? Like? So, but so what 438 00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:52,920 Speaker 1: do we what? I don't know. I keep asking you 439 00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:55,880 Speaker 1: what we do? But right, because there's so many it's 440 00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:59,800 Speaker 1: so many people now, and I feel like if if 441 00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:05,000 Speaker 1: things that we've been talking about today we're more known, way, 442 00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:08,399 Speaker 1: way way earlier on, it might have at least dampened 443 00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:11,520 Speaker 1: it just because you have these instead of pushing people away, 444 00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:15,119 Speaker 1: making fun of them, dismissing it, encouraging people to like 445 00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:18,000 Speaker 1: reach out and just be as compassionate as possible and 446 00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:20,720 Speaker 1: as patient as possible to help these people. But now 447 00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:24,840 Speaker 1: the individual level, what can you do when there are 448 00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:31,159 Speaker 1: so many people UM across the globe? Now? Sorry, I 449 00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:32,720 Speaker 1: was just like, I mean, what do you think I 450 00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:37,040 Speaker 1: was trying to do two years ago? Desperate and weird? 451 00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:41,879 Speaker 1: Like read Robert Jay Lifton read Margaret Singer talked to 452 00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:47,560 Speaker 1: Stephen Hassan at least could could you explain who those 453 00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:50,120 Speaker 1: people are in kind of brief and what you think 454 00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:52,280 Speaker 1: people would would get out of them? Because this is 455 00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:55,159 Speaker 1: this is I think one of the um one of 456 00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:57,920 Speaker 1: the things that it was difficult and sort of getting 457 00:26:58,119 --> 00:26:59,760 Speaker 1: what you were talking about this group two and a 458 00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:04,119 Speaker 1: half years ago or so um out to people, is that, uh, 459 00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:06,639 Speaker 1: the understanding you have of it and sort of the 460 00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:09,440 Speaker 1: research that people do into groups like this is so nuanced, 461 00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:14,200 Speaker 1: um that folks just don't have much of it. People 462 00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:19,480 Speaker 1: don't really understand cults, um. And so yeah, like when 463 00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:21,280 Speaker 1: when you're like, it's not enough to say you got 464 00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:24,080 Speaker 1: to read these people because most people aren't going to 465 00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:28,600 Speaker 1: read them, what is it? Like? What is the like? Okay, 466 00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:30,040 Speaker 1: So the thing that I always try to think about 467 00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:33,199 Speaker 1: when I'm trying to explain something like eight chan, right 468 00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:35,399 Speaker 1: like in two thousand nineteen, when there's all these shootings 469 00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:37,680 Speaker 1: going on and I'm trying to explain this very complicated 470 00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:40,720 Speaker 1: and strange thing that's happened on the Internet to a 471 00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:44,240 Speaker 1: group of people who are never going to look much 472 00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:46,800 Speaker 1: deeper into it than whatever thousand word article I've written, 473 00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:48,960 Speaker 1: is like, how can I how can I lay the 474 00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:53,760 Speaker 1: critical concepts out to people, um, without who are not 475 00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:55,960 Speaker 1: going to look much further into this? And I guess 476 00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:58,840 Speaker 1: what are the critical concepts from those individuals? Like? What 477 00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:01,600 Speaker 1: is it when you say you need to read Stephen Hassan, 478 00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:05,639 Speaker 1: What is it that you've gotten from his work that 479 00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:10,359 Speaker 1: has influenced your understanding of this movement? Instead of Hassan, 480 00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:15,160 Speaker 1: let's walk it back to lifting. Okay, So, yeah, which 481 00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:17,720 Speaker 1: I lifted. I mean, he's basically the godfather of what 482 00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:20,640 Speaker 1: we know. It's like cultic studies. I mean, like he's 483 00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:24,560 Speaker 1: he's this amazing psychologist. He was the one who accidentally 484 00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:27,320 Speaker 1: gave us the term brainwashing to begin with. With all 485 00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:31,280 Speaker 1: this sudden he was doing these research projects into prisoners 486 00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:34,360 Speaker 1: of war, you know, uh, communist ree education camps, things 487 00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:37,600 Speaker 1: like that, and he he authored this thing called the 488 00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:42,239 Speaker 1: Psychology of Totalism and brainwashing. You know, that term came 489 00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:45,040 Speaker 1: down from psychology totalism. You don't actually have to read 490 00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:47,920 Speaker 1: the entire book. You just have to look at at 491 00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:51,360 Speaker 1: the little principles, the Goudian principles he's laid out for 492 00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:55,040 Speaker 1: what he called totalist groups. And I think it's like 493 00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:58,360 Speaker 1: maybe eight or nine points. I think maybe it's like 494 00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:00,440 Speaker 1: three pages at the very most, depending on what it is. 495 00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:03,560 Speaker 1: Key body. You can find it online for free, like 496 00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:07,440 Speaker 1: the Cult Studies Institute or the International Cultics Studies. I 497 00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:13,040 Speaker 1: just thinking, yeah, Wikipedia, Yeah, it's even on Wikipedia. Control, 498 00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:19,200 Speaker 1: mystical manipulation, demand for purity, confession, sacred science, loading the language, 499 00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:22,960 Speaker 1: doctrine over person, dispensing of existence, and Q and I 500 00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:25,360 Speaker 1: has already had dispensing of existence. Q and ON has 501 00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:31,280 Speaker 1: already decided. Did you get you're worthy of salvation your 502 00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:36,240 Speaker 1: fake news media? You're a shill. Yeah, there's an element 503 00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:38,600 Speaker 1: of like that's a lot of where this started, right 504 00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:40,760 Speaker 1: because they've been taught trying to prepare each other from 505 00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:43,640 Speaker 1: the beginning for like the day it's their day of 506 00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:45,760 Speaker 1: the rope, right that the Nazis have this day of 507 00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:47,920 Speaker 1: the rope, where like they've been excited for forever that 508 00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:49,760 Speaker 1: like they're going to get to hang and execute all 509 00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:51,800 Speaker 1: the journalists and the race traders and the people in 510 00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:56,080 Speaker 1: internet interracial relationships and stuff, um and with Q and on, 511 00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:58,560 Speaker 1: it's kind of what you were saying earlier, like there's 512 00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:01,320 Speaker 1: all these there's a lot of anti semitism and stuff 513 00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:05,760 Speaker 1: buried in this, but it's just not they they don't 514 00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:09,160 Speaker 1: frame it exactly the same way. Uh. And you've got 515 00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:11,720 Speaker 1: like they're they're talking about when they talking about these tribunals, 516 00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:15,160 Speaker 1: they're talking about the day of the rope. It's just yeah, 517 00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:18,720 Speaker 1: within sort of a somewhat different context. So I don't 518 00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:22,000 Speaker 1: think people. I think people. I think people. One of 519 00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:24,160 Speaker 1: the things that, like lad, made it take so long 520 00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:28,520 Speaker 1: for people to take this seriously is that they folks 521 00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:31,480 Speaker 1: were sort of laughing at how silly the claims this 522 00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:33,800 Speaker 1: group was making were, and not that this group was 523 00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:36,120 Speaker 1: saying that like, at some point there will be a 524 00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:39,280 Speaker 1: moment where there are mass trials and executions and that's 525 00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:43,880 Speaker 1: our whole that's the thing we're all working towards from 526 00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:48,080 Speaker 1: the beginning. But it was also silly from the beginning. Um, 527 00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:50,479 Speaker 1: and it was hard to sort of yeah, look at 528 00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:54,120 Speaker 1: look at that whole PICTUREQ and on is basically like 529 00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:59,960 Speaker 1: an extremely online posse commentators. Yeah, and the Posse commatato 530 00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:04,080 Speaker 1: Us was a right wing like movement in the it 531 00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:11,320 Speaker 1: was the nineties early nineties, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, And 532 00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:13,080 Speaker 1: and that tied in a lot to sort of the 533 00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:15,120 Speaker 1: a lot of what was happening and kind of the 534 00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:17,760 Speaker 1: militia culture in the United States around the time that 535 00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:20,960 Speaker 1: that a a friend of the podcast, Timothy McVeigh, was 536 00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:25,920 Speaker 1: getting up to the stuff. He got up to what 537 00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:34,360 Speaker 1: talk about Timmy times, good old m Yeah, Um, jimmythy 538 00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:39,280 Speaker 1: evil twin brother. Yeah, I mean, it's it's weird because 539 00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:41,880 Speaker 1: like a lot of what's happening with Q and ON, 540 00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:46,640 Speaker 1: it's just sort of um. It's like it's like somebody 541 00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:51,160 Speaker 1: took this old car and they've they've they've they've repainted it, um, 542 00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:53,800 Speaker 1: which I guess is kind of what what has been 543 00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:56,560 Speaker 1: continuously happening with these groups from the beginning, because like 544 00:31:56,680 --> 00:32:00,400 Speaker 1: you can find a lot of similarities between even sovereign 545 00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:02,480 Speaker 1: citizens and some of the US fascists in like the 546 00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:04,600 Speaker 1: nineteen twenties and whatnot. So like a lot of this, 547 00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:08,840 Speaker 1: I don't know, there's certain things that appeal to people. 548 00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:12,400 Speaker 1: What do you think is what what are the things 549 00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:14,640 Speaker 1: that strike you as like most important that are new 550 00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:18,120 Speaker 1: about what we're seeing with Q and ON. I think 551 00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:20,720 Speaker 1: it might be just the introduction of the new Age 552 00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:25,200 Speaker 1: stuff into that mil you that already resembles, you know, 553 00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:30,000 Speaker 1: the far right, anti tax protesters, sovereign citizen patriot militia, 554 00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:33,320 Speaker 1: Christian identity stuff from like the eighties and the nineties 555 00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:36,040 Speaker 1: until okay, see okay, but now you've got this this 556 00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:39,560 Speaker 1: new Age element to it and a lot more conspiracies. 557 00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:43,680 Speaker 1: I mean, they're they're they're incorporating everything. They're incorporating a sorry, 558 00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:47,760 Speaker 1: I guess Sarah and the Galactic Federation of Light, the 559 00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:51,120 Speaker 1: Ashtar sharing like the aliens that that look like Nordic 560 00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:54,440 Speaker 1: Couberman's or whatever, which is like this has been sort 561 00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:56,840 Speaker 1: of a common thing, Like this has been like a 562 00:32:56,960 --> 00:33:00,800 Speaker 1: common sort of thread in the the Conspirator real us 563 00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:05,440 Speaker 1: uh like subculture for a very long time, like like 564 00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:07,760 Speaker 1: the like these are the these are the folks who 565 00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:10,000 Speaker 1: would set up like um it takes like a lot 566 00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:11,720 Speaker 1: of them would take over a little small towns in 567 00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:14,440 Speaker 1: New Mexico and stuff right, and like have their their 568 00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:18,000 Speaker 1: UFO conventions and they you know, march outside of like 569 00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:21,960 Speaker 1: Roswell or whatever. Um, Like what is sort of the 570 00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:25,280 Speaker 1: significance of because these have always been such like a 571 00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:27,280 Speaker 1: fringe thing, like the people who believe in all these 572 00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:32,200 Speaker 1: different this like very detailed cosmology of aliens. Um, it's 573 00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:34,880 Speaker 1: never struck me as a huge movement. What do you 574 00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:37,480 Speaker 1: think it is about sort of pulling all that stuff 575 00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:41,280 Speaker 1: in with a lot of conspiracies that sound very similar 576 00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:43,440 Speaker 1: to like ship the Nazis believed right like stuff that's 577 00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:46,880 Speaker 1: basically the protocols of the elders of Zion, Like, what 578 00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:50,000 Speaker 1: is it about merging all this stuff that makes it 579 00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:53,360 Speaker 1: so much more viral? Because like I felt like I 580 00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:57,160 Speaker 1: could pretty safely ignore, you know, most of kind of 581 00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:02,440 Speaker 1: the UFO community um for quite a while. And I 582 00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:05,000 Speaker 1: guess I'm curious, like why, why do you think that's 583 00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:07,240 Speaker 1: sort of the merger of that stuff with kind of 584 00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:09,920 Speaker 1: a lot of more like traditionally far right kind of 585 00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:15,600 Speaker 1: conspiracies is so um makes it so virulent? Honestly, I 586 00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:19,960 Speaker 1: don't know, because it's not new to me seeing these 587 00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:22,040 Speaker 1: things together and blend together. It's not new to me. 588 00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:26,360 Speaker 1: I'm an olmswikio expert, and I also happen to know 589 00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:28,920 Speaker 1: quite a bit about other far right movements that have 590 00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:32,520 Speaker 1: been blending these sort of esoteric things together for a while, 591 00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:37,080 Speaker 1: up to and including the outer space stuff. So it's 592 00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:41,480 Speaker 1: like it's it's near to y'all, like from where I'm sitting, right. 593 00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:44,800 Speaker 1: So I started paying attention to like the kind of 594 00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:47,640 Speaker 1: different conspiratorial subcultures in the United States in the late 595 00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:50,080 Speaker 1: nineteen nineties. My introduction was a guy called Robert Anton 596 00:34:50,160 --> 00:34:53,920 Speaker 1: Wilson who was kind of, um lovingly making fun of 597 00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:56,480 Speaker 1: a lot of what was happening, um, right, Like, he 598 00:34:56,560 --> 00:34:58,080 Speaker 1: was a guy who was clearly interested in a lot 599 00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:02,360 Speaker 1: of this conspiratorial subculture without taking it too seriously. And 600 00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:04,960 Speaker 1: in the late nineties early two thousands, you watch a 601 00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:07,400 Speaker 1: lot of documentaries about these people, folks who went to 602 00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:09,640 Speaker 1: the conventions that they held, and you can see some 603 00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:11,400 Speaker 1: of the Nazi stuff. You can see some of the 604 00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:15,680 Speaker 1: scary stuff going on in these UFO UM colts and 605 00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:18,800 Speaker 1: sort of these other like the channeling and and and whatnot, 606 00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:22,080 Speaker 1: like the people who are are supposedly like acting as 607 00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:25,000 Speaker 1: mouthpieces for alien intelligences and stuff, all of which is 608 00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:28,400 Speaker 1: kind of yeah, gotten absorbed into this katamari of Q 609 00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:32,560 Speaker 1: and on. Now, and there weren't a tremendous number of them, um, 610 00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:35,439 Speaker 1: and a lot of them, Like there's some good Louis 611 00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:38,600 Speaker 1: throu documentaries from around the turn of the century, UM 612 00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:41,000 Speaker 1: where he's kind of meeting a bunch of these people, 613 00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:43,000 Speaker 1: and most of them are kind of living on the 614 00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:46,600 Speaker 1: edge of substance, um in some weird chunk of like 615 00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:52,719 Speaker 1: the Southwest. Um. And I'm I'm curious as to how 616 00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:59,239 Speaker 1: this all exploded to the point where now, um, these 617 00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:04,280 Speaker 1: are not really fringe movements anymore. Um, and I'm looking 618 00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:06,720 Speaker 1: for is like, is the is the explanation as simple 619 00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:10,920 Speaker 1: as the internet, like added fertilizer to this ship? Or 620 00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:14,400 Speaker 1: or is there something more about our times? Like what 621 00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:17,600 Speaker 1: what is it that's made this all? I don't know. 622 00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:20,279 Speaker 1: I guess no one has an exact answer here, but 623 00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:24,840 Speaker 1: I'm curious for your thoughts. I think it's both. I 624 00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:28,240 Speaker 1: think you've got high speed internet and we've got social media. 625 00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:33,480 Speaker 1: Even very very lonely people who didn't leave their house 626 00:36:33,719 --> 00:36:38,600 Speaker 1: before the epidemic, they might be very alone, but they're 627 00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:42,040 Speaker 1: they're not really alone because they're connected. We're all connected 628 00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:46,919 Speaker 1: now they we're connected, but we're still alone. That's part 629 00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:51,839 Speaker 1: of it. But also, I mean, we were around when 630 00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:54,040 Speaker 1: you had your your big w K panic and stuff 631 00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:56,640 Speaker 1: like that, had that little spike in uh you know 632 00:36:56,840 --> 00:37:02,960 Speaker 1: their political millinarianist you know buckery back in all these 633 00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:05,319 Speaker 1: weird little groups popping up. You know, the comment's gonna 634 00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:06,640 Speaker 1: come or it's gonna be the end of the world, 635 00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:08,520 Speaker 1: or God's gonna come back, or the Ailiens are gonna 636 00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:12,800 Speaker 1: come blah blah blah blah blah. Are you just everybody was? 637 00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:18,080 Speaker 1: The concept wasn't as awkward or as strange then, because 638 00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:20,040 Speaker 1: you know it's the turn of the millennium. Who knows, right, 639 00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:27,160 Speaker 1: it's almost like that's coming back twenty years later. Yeah, 640 00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:31,440 Speaker 1: it does act like a wik I mean, that's why 641 00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:34,640 Speaker 1: they call it the Awakening, right, Like that's yeah, a 642 00:37:35,719 --> 00:37:39,279 Speaker 1: a rebirth of burst into like a new world. Um. 643 00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:44,200 Speaker 1: I think even like the Internet, the isolation and just 644 00:37:44,239 --> 00:37:49,359 Speaker 1: sort of the lack of meaning maybe I uh, you're 645 00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:51,640 Speaker 1: talking about like the alien stuff. I keep seeing these 646 00:37:51,719 --> 00:37:55,520 Speaker 1: TikTok's from like teenagers about being a star seeds. Are 647 00:37:55,520 --> 00:38:01,120 Speaker 1: you feeling with star Seeds? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, And it's 648 00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:04,359 Speaker 1: like it's clearly cult stuff and and like people who 649 00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:06,759 Speaker 1: are running cults like taking advantage of these young people 650 00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:11,640 Speaker 1: to sort of like make them feel like special and 651 00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:14,800 Speaker 1: connected in a way that I think people are striving for. 652 00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:18,759 Speaker 1: And uh, the Internet just gives so many tools to 653 00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:33,800 Speaker 1: people to pray together everything down. One of the things 654 00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:38,200 Speaker 1: that I guess I think back to a lot y'all 655 00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:43,879 Speaker 1: remember a book series called Left Behind. I'm sure you do, Sarah, Um, yeah, 656 00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:47,799 Speaker 1: well he was in the movie version, right right, That's 657 00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:50,560 Speaker 1: who I do. I associate with it because and that 658 00:38:50,920 --> 00:38:53,600 Speaker 1: was kind of like prior to Q and On, the 659 00:38:53,719 --> 00:39:00,800 Speaker 1: most mainstream like, um, the most mainstream apoca liptic Christian 660 00:39:01,360 --> 00:39:07,120 Speaker 1: uh uh like indoctrination that I think that like that 661 00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:12,480 Speaker 1: like so blatantly we're like yeah, like my mom Christmas, 662 00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:16,040 Speaker 1: yeah right right, because it's not just yeah, it's not fantasy. 663 00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:19,920 Speaker 1: It's uh, not just what they believe will happen, but 664 00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:23,759 Speaker 1: what they want to happen. Yeah. It does seem that 665 00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:25,320 Speaker 1: one of the things we're seeing with Q and ON 666 00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:28,200 Speaker 1: is a lot of that same kind of apocalyptic urges 667 00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:32,080 Speaker 1: that desire to um believe that the end of things 668 00:39:32,239 --> 00:39:34,400 Speaker 1: is coming, which I think is tied to and I 669 00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:37,479 Speaker 1: think some of the growth in quan On is tied 670 00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:42,480 Speaker 1: to this kind of broad understanding that almost everyone has that, um, 671 00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:46,680 Speaker 1: this can't go on forever, right, Like things are not 672 00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:51,000 Speaker 1: healthy and that can't continue forever. And there's a number 673 00:39:51,080 --> 00:39:53,080 Speaker 1: of like if you if you if you kind of 674 00:39:53,160 --> 00:39:56,640 Speaker 1: feel that in your bones, there's a number of ways 675 00:39:56,719 --> 00:39:58,800 Speaker 1: you can interpret it. You can try to like analyze 676 00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:01,920 Speaker 1: it or study it historic lee or you know, understand 677 00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:04,680 Speaker 1: the material conditions and like how they like how that 678 00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:07,800 Speaker 1: might be a literal truth. Or you can kind of 679 00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:11,719 Speaker 1: let that feeling take you places, and it does feel 680 00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:14,879 Speaker 1: like that's an aspect of what's happening, Like it's it's 681 00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:17,279 Speaker 1: an aspect of kind of what was what's happening every 682 00:40:17,360 --> 00:40:21,359 Speaker 1: time you have these these sort of Christian apocalyptic movements coming, 683 00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:23,920 Speaker 1: because they've happened before in the past, and it's always 684 00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:28,279 Speaker 1: at times when the fundamental order that sort of had 685 00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:31,400 Speaker 1: had shaped culture was was in the process of crumbling 686 00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:35,839 Speaker 1: and giving way to something new. Um and it does 687 00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:37,759 Speaker 1: seem like that that has to be a part of 688 00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:41,040 Speaker 1: what's happening, right is you've got this gut understanding that 689 00:40:41,160 --> 00:40:44,480 Speaker 1: things must be, that things are on the edge of shifting, 690 00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:48,840 Speaker 1: and this is for whatever reason, the easiest thing for 691 00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:53,000 Speaker 1: a subset of the population to imagine about what is 692 00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:57,960 Speaker 1: coming next. Always just one of hundreds of these new 693 00:40:58,040 --> 00:41:01,359 Speaker 1: religious movements that that popping up in Japan and taking off, 694 00:41:02,080 --> 00:41:05,319 Speaker 1: and in the eighties and the nineties, right, I said, 695 00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:10,560 Speaker 1: the thing is Japanese society, in Japanese pop culture, if 696 00:41:10,600 --> 00:41:14,200 Speaker 1: you look, they were they were not just enamored with 697 00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:19,360 Speaker 1: seemingly the concept of the end of the world. It 698 00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:22,560 Speaker 1: just sort of accepted it that a lot of people 699 00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:25,080 Speaker 1: were thinking, you're like, hey, you know, maybe this No 700 00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:28,840 Speaker 1: Tadama stuff, maybe there's something to it, Maybe maybe the 701 00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:33,080 Speaker 1: world really will And kids were even like going to 702 00:41:33,160 --> 00:41:35,360 Speaker 1: school and then they were hearing about the prophecies of 703 00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:38,040 Speaker 1: no Damas for the first time and they'd come home scared. 704 00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:40,399 Speaker 1: And never that happened, where like it was a little 705 00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:47,040 Speaker 1: boom on its own, things like esp. Telekinesis, yoga, invitation, 706 00:41:48,520 --> 00:41:50,680 Speaker 1: all of these things sort of cussed at the time, 707 00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:56,640 Speaker 1: so all wasn't even really am didn't really stand out 708 00:41:56,719 --> 00:41:59,000 Speaker 1: that much, except like it was a little weirder because 709 00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:02,920 Speaker 1: they were obsessed with us. The thing is, they're obsessed 710 00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:06,360 Speaker 1: with what Sahara. Yeah, yeah, so I'm gonna need you 711 00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:08,320 Speaker 1: You're gonna need to be a little explain kind of 712 00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:10,480 Speaker 1: the basics a little bit more so. Choko A Sahara 713 00:42:10,600 --> 00:42:13,279 Speaker 1: was the like, I don't know, most people would say 714 00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:16,200 Speaker 1: he was the cult leader behind No Shinrico. Yeah, yeah, 715 00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:19,239 Speaker 1: you know, he was the absolute god figure. They were 716 00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:22,320 Speaker 1: best with him like that. But what I'm trying to 717 00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:26,839 Speaker 1: get at though, yeah, it's sort of the same things 718 00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:31,040 Speaker 1: happening here. Now we're open and like we're open to 719 00:42:31,120 --> 00:42:34,000 Speaker 1: a lot of weird stuff right now. And it does 720 00:42:34,080 --> 00:42:37,319 Speaker 1: not feel like the end isn't that far fetched? Yeah, 721 00:42:37,400 --> 00:42:41,720 Speaker 1: And when the end feels like it's happening, anything can happen. 722 00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:45,200 Speaker 1: When we've been told for so long, I mean like 723 00:42:45,320 --> 00:42:48,040 Speaker 1: they are real. They're real problems that we face. Um. 724 00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:52,360 Speaker 1: Obviously like the most prevalent one in terms of like 725 00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:54,920 Speaker 1: the world is gonna like it's like climate change has 726 00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:57,359 Speaker 1: been looming for a long long time. But I think 727 00:42:57,480 --> 00:43:00,680 Speaker 1: also like at least with the American culture, we've always 728 00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:05,239 Speaker 1: been sort of told that the world is probably gonna end. 729 00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:09,960 Speaker 1: Not sure how, I'm not sure when, but uh, we 730 00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:16,080 Speaker 1: absorb and consume so vraciously, like the like all these 731 00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:21,239 Speaker 1: post apocalyptic movies, dystopian movies, UM, whether it's Independence Day 732 00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:24,680 Speaker 1: or just or any sort of thing that sort of 733 00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:29,600 Speaker 1: creates this uh expresses an anxiety I think from decades 734 00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:32,239 Speaker 1: ago of like something's gonna happen, Something's gonna happen, and 735 00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:36,160 Speaker 1: then we absorb that and not only expect it, but 736 00:43:36,360 --> 00:43:39,480 Speaker 1: like some people want it to happen. Um, And now 737 00:43:39,560 --> 00:43:43,719 Speaker 1: we're in this state where ah, literally the guy who 738 00:43:43,800 --> 00:43:49,239 Speaker 1: has been uh for decades in these dystopian movies, the 739 00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:55,160 Speaker 1: example of like a bad dystopian president. He's the president now, um, 740 00:43:55,239 --> 00:43:59,640 Speaker 1: and we have all these looming disasters and current disasters 741 00:43:59,719 --> 00:44:04,200 Speaker 1: and sort of feeds into this expectation, I guess, um 742 00:44:04,280 --> 00:44:07,440 Speaker 1: as well as uh sort of a desire for for 743 00:44:07,600 --> 00:44:11,239 Speaker 1: some people to get there and to compare it to 744 00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:14,040 Speaker 1: Japan again during the eighties and nineties and the time 745 00:44:14,080 --> 00:44:18,400 Speaker 1: of the Own affair, UH, their society, their economic bubble 746 00:44:18,760 --> 00:44:21,839 Speaker 1: was busting because they have been doing really well economically, 747 00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:23,480 Speaker 1: but then all of a sudden, that economic bubble is 748 00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:27,640 Speaker 1: starting to bust. That they were worried about, like the 749 00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:31,399 Speaker 1: breakdown of the traditional family unit because everyone was out 750 00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:34,600 Speaker 1: in the work, more kids weren't going to school, kids 751 00:44:34,640 --> 00:44:38,359 Speaker 1: were starting to fight the teachers. Sometimes the teachers would 752 00:44:38,360 --> 00:44:40,359 Speaker 1: even kill students. It's kind of just sort of feel 753 00:44:40,360 --> 00:44:42,920 Speaker 1: like everything's little upside down on top of the other 754 00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:45,680 Speaker 1: things that I discussed. So it was the beginning of 755 00:44:45,719 --> 00:44:53,000 Speaker 1: the Lost Generation. And like, yeah, there's definitely parallels because 756 00:44:53,120 --> 00:44:56,360 Speaker 1: like it's kind of I don't think anyone would have 757 00:44:56,440 --> 00:44:58,759 Speaker 1: trouble believing that, like we're seeing kind of a lost 758 00:44:58,800 --> 00:45:02,279 Speaker 1: generation situation happen here. You've got like this this huge 759 00:45:02,360 --> 00:45:06,000 Speaker 1: group of young people who school just shut down. Um. 760 00:45:06,320 --> 00:45:08,960 Speaker 1: Any chance that it's starting a career for most of 761 00:45:09,040 --> 00:45:14,279 Speaker 1: them is put right now. UM. And there's been like 762 00:45:14,440 --> 00:45:17,160 Speaker 1: the story of their their lives previous to that, the 763 00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:18,680 Speaker 1: folks who are kind of a little bit older in 764 00:45:18,680 --> 00:45:23,000 Speaker 1: their twenties and early thirties has been collapse after collapse. 765 00:45:24,040 --> 00:45:27,080 Speaker 1: The idea that everyone's living like we've all been living 766 00:45:27,160 --> 00:45:29,000 Speaker 1: on the edge of collapse one way or the other 767 00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:33,759 Speaker 1: for a long time, so kind of bracing or expecting 768 00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:37,800 Speaker 1: that is the UM, I don't know like that that 769 00:45:38,040 --> 00:45:44,640 Speaker 1: that's the There's what people need right now is a 770 00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:47,400 Speaker 1: vision of what comes after everything falls off a cliff, 771 00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:50,279 Speaker 1: because everybody knows that the cliff is coming, right um 772 00:45:50,840 --> 00:45:53,480 Speaker 1: Q and on is a number of different people are 773 00:45:53,520 --> 00:45:56,000 Speaker 1: trying to all offer that, right Like Marxists are trying 774 00:45:56,040 --> 00:45:57,800 Speaker 1: to offer that with their own kind of you know, 775 00:45:58,239 --> 00:46:00,719 Speaker 1: beliefs about like what what what is going to be, 776 00:46:01,000 --> 00:46:02,960 Speaker 1: like what's going to happen with our culture and like 777 00:46:03,080 --> 00:46:06,239 Speaker 1: the way that that things happen historically, um, you know, 778 00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:10,000 Speaker 1: obviously like the like mainstream political parties try to offer 779 00:46:10,080 --> 00:46:12,880 Speaker 1: that too in their own way and for whatever reason, 780 00:46:13,480 --> 00:46:16,080 Speaker 1: the version of what's going to happen, what the collapse 781 00:46:16,280 --> 00:46:18,319 Speaker 1: is going to be and like what's going to happen 782 00:46:18,360 --> 00:46:21,640 Speaker 1: after it? That this that Qann's offering seems to be 783 00:46:21,719 --> 00:46:24,400 Speaker 1: a hell of a lot more compelling to larger groups 784 00:46:24,440 --> 00:46:28,200 Speaker 1: of people than any of the other stuff. It's also 785 00:46:28,320 --> 00:46:31,000 Speaker 1: very comforting. Yeah, and I guess that's part of them. 786 00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:33,719 Speaker 1: To them, it's less bleak because they're the winners, right, 787 00:46:33,920 --> 00:46:38,799 Speaker 1: they are in, they're in, they'll be fine and all 788 00:46:38,880 --> 00:46:41,640 Speaker 1: of the bad people will be dead and everyone will 789 00:46:41,719 --> 00:46:44,600 Speaker 1: know that they were right all along. Right, But every 790 00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:47,759 Speaker 1: like most of the other visions of like whatever is 791 00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:50,120 Speaker 1: whatever is going to happen and whatever it's going to 792 00:46:50,200 --> 00:46:54,640 Speaker 1: look like, uh there more realistic, um, And they're harder, 793 00:46:54,680 --> 00:46:58,640 Speaker 1: they're more complicated. It's not as easy as just saying like, oh, yeah, 794 00:46:58,760 --> 00:47:02,240 Speaker 1: you're not one of the know that the demon, satanic, 795 00:47:02,280 --> 00:47:06,719 Speaker 1: pedophile government employees, so you'll be fine and that's that 796 00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:16,560 Speaker 1: makes it really easy to accept. M hm. Yeah, I 797 00:47:16,600 --> 00:47:20,640 Speaker 1: don't feel great about where we're headed. Yeah, but they're 798 00:47:21,080 --> 00:47:23,480 Speaker 1: the really scary people want you to feel that way, 799 00:47:23,800 --> 00:47:25,960 Speaker 1: and they want you to sort of envision it as 800 00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:29,560 Speaker 1: like a cliff scenario. They want you, they need you 801 00:47:29,800 --> 00:47:33,560 Speaker 1: to be you know that black pilled. Are that fatalistic. 802 00:47:34,280 --> 00:47:37,279 Speaker 1: It really only benefits the scary people. You need to 803 00:47:37,400 --> 00:47:40,320 Speaker 1: have hope. And I'm not just trying to like pander 804 00:47:40,520 --> 00:47:43,399 Speaker 1: or pedal like a false hope and say that things 805 00:47:43,480 --> 00:47:45,920 Speaker 1: aren't going to be scary or whatever, because yeah, I mean, 806 00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:49,600 Speaker 1: obviously it will. But one of the things that you 807 00:47:49,680 --> 00:47:52,800 Speaker 1: can do to help counter some of this stuff is 808 00:47:52,880 --> 00:47:54,600 Speaker 1: like you've got to give people some sort of vision 809 00:47:54,600 --> 00:47:57,600 Speaker 1: of of like a realistic hope. So like maybe instead 810 00:47:57,600 --> 00:47:59,920 Speaker 1: of saying it's a cliff, they give it more like 811 00:48:00,040 --> 00:48:04,640 Speaker 1: the wave or a roller coaster. Yeah, even a waterfall. 812 00:48:04,800 --> 00:48:08,560 Speaker 1: You're still falling, but it's not. Yeah, but maybe it'll 813 00:48:08,560 --> 00:48:13,279 Speaker 1: be one of those waterfalls in like the Jumanji movie. Well, right, 814 00:48:13,360 --> 00:48:17,279 Speaker 1: you it's a waterfall. But we're all we're all all 815 00:48:17,360 --> 00:48:20,640 Speaker 1: of us, even the people who are getting involved in Q. 816 00:48:20,880 --> 00:48:23,960 Speaker 1: We're all in the river headed towards it, and we 817 00:48:24,040 --> 00:48:26,840 Speaker 1: can help each other make barrels for each other to 818 00:48:26,960 --> 00:48:30,000 Speaker 1: make that fall down the waterfall a little better. Yeah, 819 00:48:30,080 --> 00:48:33,359 Speaker 1: let's all make some barrels. I think that is you're 820 00:48:33,400 --> 00:48:35,359 Speaker 1: hitting on something really important there, because I think that's 821 00:48:35,400 --> 00:48:38,200 Speaker 1: the problem that a lot of like serious political thinkers have, 822 00:48:38,360 --> 00:48:40,720 Speaker 1: and it's a problem that journalists have, right, Like folks 823 00:48:40,800 --> 00:48:45,160 Speaker 1: talk about how as a journalist you shouldn't be like 824 00:48:45,239 --> 00:48:47,799 Speaker 1: all you should do is kind of describe the things 825 00:48:47,920 --> 00:48:50,920 Speaker 1: that are happening, um and as as much sort of 826 00:48:51,040 --> 00:48:55,320 Speaker 1: raw accuracy as you can. And sometimes that actually leads 827 00:48:55,360 --> 00:48:58,440 Speaker 1: if the goal is to speak truth to power um 828 00:48:58,840 --> 00:49:02,640 Speaker 1: and speak truth in jim role, sometimes doing that leads 829 00:49:02,680 --> 00:49:05,680 Speaker 1: people away from the truth because if all you're doing 830 00:49:05,800 --> 00:49:09,239 Speaker 1: is reporting what's happening and kind of the rawest and 831 00:49:09,440 --> 00:49:14,239 Speaker 1: most um factually accurate sense UM, that can lead people 832 00:49:14,320 --> 00:49:16,840 Speaker 1: into the arms of something like Q and on because 833 00:49:17,800 --> 00:49:22,040 Speaker 1: there's you're not providing them with anything else but cold 834 00:49:22,120 --> 00:49:26,680 Speaker 1: hard reality, which um may lead them in a state 835 00:49:26,800 --> 00:49:31,440 Speaker 1: of sort of anxiety and fear and hopelessness to embrace 836 00:49:31,600 --> 00:49:35,680 Speaker 1: something that's that's that's very wrong, um, Which is why 837 00:49:35,760 --> 00:49:38,920 Speaker 1: I think there does need to be kind of more 838 00:49:39,000 --> 00:49:42,600 Speaker 1: social responsibility in the people who are reporting, in the 839 00:49:42,640 --> 00:49:44,880 Speaker 1: way that people are reporting, Like, I don't think raw 840 00:49:45,040 --> 00:49:48,360 Speaker 1: facts are always the most helpful thing. I think you 841 00:49:48,440 --> 00:49:53,600 Speaker 1: need to be providing people um with with more than 842 00:49:53,719 --> 00:49:56,000 Speaker 1: that if you're going to be a responsible sort of 843 00:49:56,480 --> 00:50:02,400 Speaker 1: um uh person of fluence within kind of the broader culture. UM. 844 00:50:02,840 --> 00:50:08,919 Speaker 1: I think that's that's necessary. People need something that people 845 00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:13,439 Speaker 1: need a sense of possibility, um. In order to make 846 00:50:13,520 --> 00:50:16,160 Speaker 1: them resilient to stuff like this. They need a sense 847 00:50:16,239 --> 00:50:19,320 Speaker 1: that that things. Um. That they need a sense of 848 00:50:19,360 --> 00:50:21,640 Speaker 1: hope and a sense of I can be a part 849 00:50:21,760 --> 00:50:26,520 Speaker 1: of something hopeful. Otherwise they're going to get caught up 850 00:50:26,560 --> 00:50:28,440 Speaker 1: in one of these things that provides that to them. 851 00:50:29,000 --> 00:50:30,840 Speaker 1: Sorry you were talking about just like raw facts and 852 00:50:30,920 --> 00:50:34,600 Speaker 1: stuff and and that sort of fatalistic thing. But some 853 00:50:34,880 --> 00:50:37,360 Speaker 1: of the journalists, and especially some of the journalists on 854 00:50:37,640 --> 00:50:42,760 Speaker 1: you know, this particular beat or whatever covering really scary things. Yeah, 855 00:50:43,280 --> 00:50:46,520 Speaker 1: they some of them maybe sensationalize it. And I'm not 856 00:50:46,600 --> 00:50:50,279 Speaker 1: saying sensationalize it in a sense of they overstate the 857 00:50:50,440 --> 00:50:52,839 Speaker 1: dangers or whatever, because obviously the dange was very real. 858 00:50:53,400 --> 00:50:56,120 Speaker 1: Yes I'm not trying to say that, but that the 859 00:50:56,200 --> 00:51:01,480 Speaker 1: sensationalism just whips up maybe more of a friends. So like, 860 00:51:01,680 --> 00:51:03,799 Speaker 1: if you could take maybe a bit of a work 861 00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:08,319 Speaker 1: i don't know, empathetic approach sometimes m and think maybe 862 00:51:08,360 --> 00:51:10,120 Speaker 1: people on our rand and things might be a little 863 00:51:10,160 --> 00:51:15,320 Speaker 1: less scared. Yeah, how do you if you were approached, 864 00:51:15,400 --> 00:51:18,239 Speaker 1: say by like UM. I don't know editor in chief 865 00:51:18,280 --> 00:51:21,359 Speaker 1: at the New York Times who said, Sarah, we were 866 00:51:21,400 --> 00:51:24,400 Speaker 1: trying to we want to cover Q and on UM, 867 00:51:24,640 --> 00:51:27,120 Speaker 1: and we're concerned with the way we've been covering it, 868 00:51:27,280 --> 00:51:29,800 Speaker 1: Like what do you think we should look into and 869 00:51:30,120 --> 00:51:34,440 Speaker 1: write about in order to UM kind of present the 870 00:51:34,480 --> 00:51:37,120 Speaker 1: thing that you think is missing in sort of mainstream 871 00:51:37,360 --> 00:51:39,560 Speaker 1: coverage of this movement right now? Where would you send them? 872 00:51:41,160 --> 00:51:43,799 Speaker 1: I'd I'd send them to some of the key researchers 873 00:51:43,880 --> 00:51:47,720 Speaker 1: like Travis and some of the moderators of the support 874 00:51:47,760 --> 00:51:50,840 Speaker 1: subredit for the for the Families. Yeah, and that's a 875 00:51:50,880 --> 00:51:54,000 Speaker 1: subgredit where people who have lost family members to this, 876 00:51:54,480 --> 00:51:57,879 Speaker 1: you know, uh talk about what that's like. Yeah, yes, 877 00:51:58,520 --> 00:52:01,399 Speaker 1: that would send them to them. I've sent some major 878 00:52:01,480 --> 00:52:06,759 Speaker 1: media people to those contacts, people like at Poker Politics 879 00:52:06,880 --> 00:52:10,600 Speaker 1: on Twitter, Poker and Politics, their Pew researcher and a 880 00:52:10,680 --> 00:52:14,040 Speaker 1: moderator of that subreddit they've helped people get out of 881 00:52:15,280 --> 00:52:18,400 Speaker 1: and they just talked to people who are dealing, you know, 882 00:52:18,480 --> 00:52:21,640 Speaker 1: struggling with losing their families and stuff. Maybe you could 883 00:52:21,680 --> 00:52:23,879 Speaker 1: like tell some of those stories so as the people 884 00:52:23,920 --> 00:52:26,080 Speaker 1: who got out, stories of people who are like just 885 00:52:26,440 --> 00:52:29,480 Speaker 1: coming to terms with what's happening. Things like that. You 886 00:52:29,520 --> 00:52:32,600 Speaker 1: could start there. You can talk to other cultic abuse 887 00:52:32,640 --> 00:52:36,680 Speaker 1: survivors and uh their former neo Nazis and things like that, 888 00:52:37,320 --> 00:52:39,880 Speaker 1: and not just the famous ones. Talk to some of 889 00:52:39,920 --> 00:52:42,120 Speaker 1: the ones who aren't out there on the lecture circuit 890 00:52:42,400 --> 00:52:44,200 Speaker 1: and the ones who aren't out there with book deals 891 00:52:44,680 --> 00:52:47,760 Speaker 1: or TV shows or whatever. I talked to the normal people, 892 00:52:48,960 --> 00:52:51,160 Speaker 1: the average yeah right right, people who got out and 893 00:52:51,280 --> 00:52:56,479 Speaker 1: they're living their normal lives again. Yeah. Well, I guess 894 00:52:56,520 --> 00:52:58,439 Speaker 1: that's as good a note to kind of close things 895 00:52:58,560 --> 00:53:02,399 Speaker 1: up on. This has been us trying to talk through 896 00:53:02,520 --> 00:53:06,960 Speaker 1: whatever the hell is happening, um, because it's uh confusing 897 00:53:08,000 --> 00:53:14,200 Speaker 1: and worrying, but not hopeless. Maybe maybe not hopeless. We 898 00:53:14,400 --> 00:53:21,400 Speaker 1: might survive the year. Yeah. Um. I was very quiet 899 00:53:21,520 --> 00:53:24,000 Speaker 1: for a lot of this because I had had internet 900 00:53:24,040 --> 00:53:26,000 Speaker 1: issues and kept getting logged in and out. So I'm 901 00:53:26,040 --> 00:53:32,440 Speaker 1: excited to really listen to most of it, but very 902 00:53:32,480 --> 00:53:35,000 Speaker 1: grateful for you taking time out of your day to 903 00:53:35,160 --> 00:53:38,520 Speaker 1: chat with us. Um. The parts that I heard were 904 00:53:38,719 --> 00:53:42,480 Speaker 1: very interesting. It's kind of cool, like I talked to 905 00:53:42,560 --> 00:53:44,759 Speaker 1: Bobart and Cody sometimes, but this is actually my first 906 00:53:44,800 --> 00:53:47,479 Speaker 1: time meeting you. And Sophie. So I'm actually really happy 907 00:53:47,480 --> 00:53:49,560 Speaker 1: about that. It's me too. It's so nice to meet you. 908 00:53:49,640 --> 00:53:52,879 Speaker 1: I'm sorry that my internet is choosing today to kick 909 00:53:53,000 --> 00:53:56,960 Speaker 1: me in and out of this room. Yeah. Well, if 910 00:53:57,000 --> 00:54:01,400 Speaker 1: there's one thing we've learned about, we can shoot cars 911 00:54:01,480 --> 00:54:04,480 Speaker 1: and satellites and stuff into space, but having four people 912 00:54:04,560 --> 00:54:09,000 Speaker 1: communicate for an hour or so um via the internet, 913 00:54:09,239 --> 00:54:15,080 Speaker 1: UM is bound to not going to happen issues. But 914 00:54:15,239 --> 00:54:19,600 Speaker 1: you guys can check us out online. Yes, that's consistent. 915 00:54:20,000 --> 00:54:24,800 Speaker 1: What worst your pod on Instagram and Twitter? Um, and 916 00:54:25,680 --> 00:54:27,759 Speaker 1: follow all of us and stuff like that if you want, 917 00:54:29,160 --> 00:54:36,800 Speaker 1: if you want. And I think I got kicked out again, yeah, asshole. 918 00:54:37,040 --> 00:54:39,520 Speaker 1: And Sarah, is there anything I want to plug at 919 00:54:39,560 --> 00:54:41,480 Speaker 1: the end here? Is there anything that you want to plug? Sarah? 920 00:54:42,520 --> 00:54:46,759 Speaker 1: Is there anything out personally want to plug? Yeah? Yeah, yeah. Actually, UM, 921 00:54:47,480 --> 00:54:50,600 Speaker 1: I want y'all to go subscribe to The Informant. Nick 922 00:54:50,680 --> 00:54:53,840 Speaker 1: Martin snows, Yeah, yeah, y'all should go stay in the 923 00:54:53,880 --> 00:54:57,280 Speaker 1: Informant if you want like good coverage, that a coverage. 924 00:54:57,719 --> 00:54:59,960 Speaker 1: Do you want to feel good about the year? You'll? 925 00:55:00,440 --> 00:55:06,239 Speaker 1: Nick Martin rules, Yeah, he's the best every day, one 926 00:55:06,320 --> 00:55:09,600 Speaker 1: of the very best within the field. Of looking at um, 927 00:55:10,560 --> 00:55:12,800 Speaker 1: looking at look at Nazi type folks and being like, 928 00:55:12,880 --> 00:55:18,200 Speaker 1: what's going on? What's going on over here? Yeah, I'm 929 00:55:18,200 --> 00:55:20,680 Speaker 1: gonna cyber bully him and get a shrimp dinner. So 930 00:55:20,960 --> 00:55:24,080 Speaker 1: y'all go, y'all go, subscribe to the informant. All right, 931 00:55:24,480 --> 00:55:27,520 Speaker 1: subscribe to the informance that Sarah can eat shrimp. Um, 932 00:55:27,760 --> 00:55:31,800 Speaker 1: I am going to eat some shrimp myself. Metaphorical shrimp. 933 00:55:32,480 --> 00:55:34,839 Speaker 1: I don't know what that means. What what I think 934 00:55:34,880 --> 00:55:37,719 Speaker 1: you're trying to say? Because it kicked Katie out of 935 00:55:38,000 --> 00:55:43,279 Speaker 1: the zoom meeting again. I love technology is that you 936 00:55:43,360 --> 00:55:46,040 Speaker 1: can follow us Where's your pot on Twitter, Instagram. You 937 00:55:46,080 --> 00:55:48,200 Speaker 1: can follow Katie at Katie Stole. You can follow up 938 00:55:48,239 --> 00:55:50,160 Speaker 1: Cody at dr Mr Cody. You can follow Robert on 939 00:55:50,200 --> 00:55:52,280 Speaker 1: Twitter and I right, okay, we have a t public store. 940 00:55:53,520 --> 00:56:04,880 Speaker 1: Uh man, so dumb, everything so dumb, and it's not again. 941 00:56:07,040 --> 00:56:11,279 Speaker 1: I tried. Daniel. Worst Year Ever is a production of 942 00:56:11,320 --> 00:56:14,080 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from my heart Radio, 943 00:56:14,200 --> 00:56:17,120 Speaker 1: visit the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 944 00:56:17,200 --> 00:56:18,520 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.