WEBVTT - From the Vault: Bandersnatch 0:00:06.160 --> 0:00:08.559 Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. My name 0:00:08.600 --> 0:00:09.680 is Robert Lamb. 0:00:09.720 --> 0:00:12.520 And I am Joe McCormick, and it's Saturday. So we're 0:00:12.520 --> 0:00:14.720 going into the vault for an older episode of the show. 0:00:14.760 --> 0:00:17.560 This time we're going back several years to an episode 0:00:17.600 --> 0:00:21.560 we did on the Black Mirror episode Bander Snatch. This 0:00:21.760 --> 0:00:25.000 was before Weird House Cinema. Not a Weird House Cinema episode. 0:00:25.680 --> 0:00:30.240 We featured it in a We featured it in a 0:00:30.280 --> 0:00:32.800 core episode and talked about all kinds of things connected 0:00:33.120 --> 0:00:38.600 to the plot. This sorry, this was not a Weird 0:00:38.600 --> 0:00:41.080 House Cinema episode. This pre dates Weird House. It was 0:00:41.120 --> 0:00:43.040 a core episode where we talked about all kinds of 0:00:43.120 --> 0:00:47.200 things related to the plot. It originally aired January ninth, 0:00:47.280 --> 0:00:48.000 twenty twenty. 0:00:48.360 --> 0:00:50.400 Now why are we talking about it right now? Well, 0:00:50.400 --> 0:00:53.400 it's my understanding that Netflix is set to remove Bander 0:00:53.479 --> 0:00:58.360 Snatch from its platform on May twelfth, And unlike most films, 0:00:58.440 --> 0:01:00.400 you know, when it leaves one platform, or it can 0:01:00.400 --> 0:01:02.800 just pop up on another, right, some other streaming service 0:01:02.800 --> 0:01:05.920 can offer it, or it'll come out on physical media maybe, 0:01:06.360 --> 0:01:09.360 or you know, or if you can find a stream somewhere. 0:01:09.560 --> 0:01:12.320 But of course the thing about Bandersnatch is that it's interactive. 0:01:12.400 --> 0:01:16.600 It is a choose your own path experience, and therefore, 0:01:16.720 --> 0:01:18.679 if it's not, it's one of the it's one of 0:01:18.680 --> 0:01:21.720 the few of the interactive experiences that they actually did, 0:01:22.040 --> 0:01:25.200 and once it is off of the Netflix platform, you're 0:01:25.240 --> 0:01:26.840 not going to be able to experience it in the 0:01:26.880 --> 0:01:30.480 same way, which I thought was brilliant. I thought it 0:01:30.520 --> 0:01:35.679 was an amazing interface of not only the technical aspects 0:01:35.680 --> 0:01:38.640 of it, but just the way that Black Mirror made 0:01:38.800 --> 0:01:42.560 use of that technology to tell a compelling story about 0:01:42.640 --> 0:01:44.399 choices and the illusion of choice. 0:01:45.000 --> 0:01:47.280 Going to be a shame to lose it, but it 0:01:47.319 --> 0:01:49.600 seems like a fitting end for an episode of Black 0:01:49.640 --> 0:01:52.280 Mirror to actually just be destroyed by the kind of 0:01:52.360 --> 0:01:54.560 whims of a technological behemoth. 0:01:54.880 --> 0:01:58.320 It does, it really does. So Yeah, so you've got 0:01:58.400 --> 0:02:01.360 you've literally gotten like what a couple of days, maybe 0:02:01.400 --> 0:02:03.480 even down to hours at this point by the time 0:02:03.520 --> 0:02:07.280 you're listening to this episode. So jump in there experienced Bandersnatch, 0:02:07.520 --> 0:02:10.600 or re experience it while you have time and enjoy 0:02:10.680 --> 0:02:13.400 our thoughts from the year twenty twenty about it. 0:02:18.960 --> 0:02:21.960 And the Banker Inspired with a courage so new it 0:02:22.040 --> 0:02:25.680 was a matter for general remark, rushed madly ahead and 0:02:25.800 --> 0:02:28.520 was lost to their view in his zeal to discover 0:02:28.600 --> 0:02:32.160 the snark. But while he was seeking with thimbles and care, 0:02:32.639 --> 0:02:36.840 a bender snatch swiftly drew nigh and grabbed at the banker, 0:02:36.880 --> 0:02:39.760 who shrieked in despair, for he knew it was useless 0:02:39.800 --> 0:02:43.520 to fly. He offered large discount. He offered a check 0:02:44.000 --> 0:02:46.679 drawn two bearer for seven pounds ten. 0:02:46.760 --> 0:02:50.120 But the bandersnatch merely extended its neck and grabbed at 0:02:50.120 --> 0:02:54.560 the banker again without rest or pause, while those frumiest 0:02:54.720 --> 0:02:59.160 jaws went savagely snapping around. He skipped, and he hopped, 0:02:59.160 --> 0:03:02.760 and he floundered, flopped till fainting he fell to the ground. 0:03:03.520 --> 0:03:06.720 The Bandersnatch fled as the others appeared, led on by 0:03:06.720 --> 0:03:10.720 that fear stricken yell, and the bellman remarked, it is 0:03:10.880 --> 0:03:14.000 just as I feared, and solemnly told on his bell. 0:03:20.800 --> 0:03:22.680 Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind, A production of 0:03:22.720 --> 0:03:24.120 Iheartradios How Stuff Works. 0:03:30.680 --> 0:03:32.760 Hey, Welcome to stuff to Blow your Mind. My name 0:03:32.800 --> 0:03:33.800 is Robert Lamb. 0:03:33.560 --> 0:03:36.040 And I'm Joe McCormick. And Robert are you feeling more 0:03:36.080 --> 0:03:38.200 frabjess or more frumious today. 0:03:38.480 --> 0:03:42.280 I guess more frumious frumious would be my answer. That was, 0:03:42.320 --> 0:03:45.840 of course the poem The Hunting of the Snark by 0:03:45.920 --> 0:03:48.760 Lewis Carroll, But I guess a number of people are 0:03:48.760 --> 0:03:51.720 probably more familiar with the Bandersnatch from another poem by 0:03:51.800 --> 0:03:55.720 Lewis Carroll, that being the jabberwock Jabwacke, Yes, where the 0:03:55.760 --> 0:03:59.760 Bandersnatch is just alluded to as another monstrous creature that 0:03:59.840 --> 0:04:02.160 my i'd be running around the woods. 0:04:02.440 --> 0:04:05.440 I love it when a poet first named something in 0:04:05.480 --> 0:04:08.840 a kind of in a listical kind of way, you know, 0:04:09.000 --> 0:04:12.840 poem as listical, and then later it comes through in 0:04:12.880 --> 0:04:15.480 another poem with more force. I think that sort of 0:04:15.520 --> 0:04:18.480 happened with the demogorgan, right. 0:04:18.480 --> 0:04:21.360 Yeah, yeah, I think so. And in this case, yeah, 0:04:21.560 --> 0:04:24.120 the Bandersnatch. There's not a lot really said about it 0:04:24.160 --> 0:04:26.880 in the writings of Lewis Carroll. Lewis Carroll, by the way, 0:04:27.279 --> 0:04:30.760 was the pen name of Charles Lutwich Dodgson, who lived 0:04:30.800 --> 0:04:34.359 eighteen thirty two through eighteen ninety eight, and he first 0:04:34.360 --> 0:04:36.760 introduced the bander Snatch again just in a list of 0:04:36.760 --> 0:04:39.960 creatures that might pop up in his eighteen seventy two 0:04:40.040 --> 0:04:43.640 novel Through the Looking Glass in that poem the Jabberwackie, 0:04:44.040 --> 0:04:46.560 and then pops up again in this eighteen seventy four 0:04:46.560 --> 0:04:48.400 poem that we just read, the Hunting of the Snark, 0:04:49.720 --> 0:04:50.720 which we didn't. 0:04:50.480 --> 0:04:52.000 Read the whole of the poem. That was just an 0:04:52.000 --> 0:04:56.000 exerpt from it. I think where the like who's the banker? 0:04:56.080 --> 0:04:57.800 The banker is one of these people who goes on 0:04:57.839 --> 0:05:01.120 a voyage hunting the snark. I've read that that poem 0:05:01.800 --> 0:05:05.480 has been interpreted by some as metaphorical of you know, 0:05:05.520 --> 0:05:07.480 that it's supposed to be an allegory about the search 0:05:07.520 --> 0:05:11.440 for human happiness and contentment. But then also I think 0:05:11.440 --> 0:05:13.520 i've heard it alleged that the poem actually has no 0:05:13.920 --> 0:05:16.480 allegorical meaning, that it's just kind of silly. 0:05:17.480 --> 0:05:19.600 Yeah, I mean, in that sense, it's kind of enigmatic. 0:05:19.640 --> 0:05:23.680 And the creature itself is enigmatic, scarcely described, but certainly 0:05:23.800 --> 0:05:26.560 best avoided at all costs. There's no way to outrun it, 0:05:26.920 --> 0:05:30.279 no way to escape its intensity. And by the way, 0:05:30.320 --> 0:05:34.599 frumius is a combination of fuming and furious. Carroll just 0:05:34.720 --> 0:05:37.039 ran these two words together to make a nice new 0:05:37.120 --> 0:05:39.640 adjective for a strange monster is. 0:05:39.640 --> 0:05:43.680 A perfectly cromulent word, very frabjous. And I was wondering, 0:05:43.680 --> 0:05:45.719 do you need a vorpal sword if you go up 0:05:45.720 --> 0:05:47.800 against a vander Snatch or is that only for the 0:05:47.880 --> 0:05:48.640 jabberwock Well. 0:05:48.600 --> 0:05:51.159 It certainly worked on the Jabberwockie. I don't know about 0:05:51.160 --> 0:05:53.760 the vander Snatch. There are no tales of slaying it, 0:05:53.800 --> 0:05:57.039 are there, at least not in Lewis Carroll's original work. 0:05:57.160 --> 0:05:59.479 Does the vorpal sword show up as an artifact in 0:05:59.560 --> 0:06:00.520 D and D It does? 0:06:00.720 --> 0:06:05.520 Yeah, it certainly does. Yeah, pretty good sword. Oh yeah, yeah, 0:06:05.600 --> 0:06:09.040 very good sword. Now, the name Vandersnatch has been evoked 0:06:09.080 --> 0:06:11.640 many times over the years and works of fantasy and 0:06:11.680 --> 0:06:14.840 science fiction. I've seen it pop up as a space 0:06:14.920 --> 0:06:18.080 slug and other such creatures. Sometimes it's just kind of 0:06:18.120 --> 0:06:21.760 an enigmatic name for like a government project or something, 0:06:22.600 --> 0:06:25.320 because it's a great it's a great name. In depictions 0:06:25.320 --> 0:06:27.479 of Lewis Carroll's work, it is often take on a 0:06:27.640 --> 0:06:32.839 mammalian character. Nineteenth century children's illustrator Peter Newell depicted it 0:06:32.920 --> 0:06:36.080 is kind of a furry, horned beast that might resemble 0:06:36.120 --> 0:06:39.320 a cat or maybe a wolf like creature, and this one, 0:06:39.360 --> 0:06:42.720 this is a very popular image, and then film adaptations 0:06:42.720 --> 0:06:46.359 have depicted it as both borlike and cat like. The 0:06:46.360 --> 0:06:50.560 twenty ten Tim Burton adaptation has a very memorable creature 0:06:50.560 --> 0:06:51.880 design for the Bandersnatch. 0:06:51.960 --> 0:06:54.640 Oh, the Tim Burton Alice in Wonderland? Is that what 0:06:54.680 --> 0:06:55.320 you're talking about? 0:06:55.400 --> 0:06:57.240 Yeah, yeah, I have, I've seen the first one. 0:06:57.839 --> 0:07:01.279 I never ventured that far into late Burton. 0:07:01.680 --> 0:07:05.720 Well, it had some things going for it. It had 0:07:05.760 --> 0:07:09.880 had a really good cast, it had some interesting character designs, 0:07:09.880 --> 0:07:15.160 I'll say that, and a very monstrous looking Bandersnatch. Okay, Now, 0:07:15.200 --> 0:07:18.880 just a couple of other interesting tidbits about Lewis Carroll. 0:07:19.880 --> 0:07:22.960 He was a mathematician. He worked in geometry and new 0:07:23.040 --> 0:07:27.840 ideas in algebra, logic, machines, ciphers. So between this and 0:07:27.920 --> 0:07:30.440 other details of his life, there's a lot of black 0:07:30.520 --> 0:07:35.680 mirror to the originator of the Bandersnatch. Also, in Hallucinations, 0:07:36.040 --> 0:07:39.200 the book by Oliver Sachs, the Late Oliver Sacks, Sax 0:07:39.240 --> 0:07:42.760 points out that Carroll was known to suffer from classical migraines, 0:07:43.200 --> 0:07:46.760 and that Caro W. Lippman and others have suggested that 0:07:46.840 --> 0:07:53.440 his migraine experiences may have contributed to the way he 0:07:53.600 --> 0:07:56.720 envisioned through the looking Glass and Alice in Wonderland, like 0:07:56.760 --> 0:08:01.480 the skewing of time and space. Also, you have auditory 0:08:01.480 --> 0:08:04.320 hallucinations that are not uncommon in migraines, as well as 0:08:04.320 --> 0:08:10.040 old factory hallucinations. I've also seen descriptions of this lifting feeling, 0:08:10.640 --> 0:08:12.640 this feeling of being moved through space. 0:08:13.840 --> 0:08:16.720 Yeah, I guess the extension of the lightheadedness that comes 0:08:16.720 --> 0:08:18.120 on with the aura and all that. 0:08:18.360 --> 0:08:19.080 Yeah. 0:08:19.920 --> 0:08:22.360 You know, there's actually an asteroid named bander Snatch. 0:08:22.440 --> 0:08:23.200 Oh I didn't know this. 0:08:23.280 --> 0:08:24.960 Yeah, I look this up. Nine to seven to eighty 0:08:25.000 --> 0:08:27.760 Bander Snatch. It's a Main Belt asteroid, so it's out 0:08:27.800 --> 0:08:30.640 beyond the orbit of Mars. Discovered in nineteen ninety four 0:08:30.680 --> 0:08:35.720 by Japanese astronomers Takashi Urrata and Yasuhiro Shimizu at the 0:08:36.000 --> 0:08:38.960 Nachi Katsura Observatory, and it was named, of course after 0:08:39.040 --> 0:08:40.240 the Frumias Bandersnatch. 0:08:40.880 --> 0:08:43.719 Awesome. Now, one of the this is just sort of 0:08:43.760 --> 0:08:47.439 the introductory material on the Bandersnatch, because for the vast 0:08:47.480 --> 0:08:50.520 majority of this episode we're going to be talking about 0:08:50.640 --> 0:08:56.240 what as I guess the most recent cinematic invocation of 0:08:56.280 --> 0:09:00.720 the bandersnatch, and that is the Black Mirror episode. Well, 0:09:00.720 --> 0:09:03.480 it's not even an episode. It's a Black Mirror film 0:09:03.960 --> 0:09:07.000 that came out on Netflix December of what was it, 0:09:07.040 --> 0:09:11.079 twenty eighteen, so a little over a year ago, and 0:09:11.600 --> 0:09:12.920 there's a lot to unpack here. 0:09:13.160 --> 0:09:15.559 I actually didn't watch it until this week, so I 0:09:15.640 --> 0:09:17.480 knew you wanted to do an episode about it, and 0:09:17.559 --> 0:09:19.240 I was like, Okay, I'll finally see what all the 0:09:19.280 --> 0:09:19.840 fuss is about. 0:09:19.920 --> 0:09:20.800 I was very impressed. 0:09:21.280 --> 0:09:25.040 Yeah, I'll get I'll certainly get more into my very 0:09:25.080 --> 0:09:26.960 thoughts on it later. I was impressed with it when 0:09:26.960 --> 0:09:28.880 it came out, and then since we were going to 0:09:28.960 --> 0:09:31.480 do the episode, I rewatched it for the first time 0:09:31.679 --> 0:09:36.040 since its original release earlier this week, and I have 0:09:36.120 --> 0:09:38.320 to say it, I thought it held up. I even 0:09:38.760 --> 0:09:41.040 got a different ending and a different dead end at 0:09:41.040 --> 0:09:45.200 one point than I had encountered previously. So it was like, 0:09:45.280 --> 0:09:47.960 why every time you watch a film that you like 0:09:48.160 --> 0:09:50.840 again you find new things, but in this case you 0:09:50.880 --> 0:09:52.559 can actually get a different ending. 0:09:52.920 --> 0:09:56.000 Yeah, now we're going to be exploring today some of 0:09:56.040 --> 0:09:59.280 the science and the ideas and philosophy that are alluded 0:09:59.320 --> 0:10:02.720 to in Vanderson. But in doing so, of course, this 0:10:02.760 --> 0:10:07.079 will involve some spoilers for this strange film. So I 0:10:07.120 --> 0:10:08.800 would say, there are a couple of places we're not 0:10:09.160 --> 0:10:11.240 going to like go through and explore every possible ending 0:10:11.360 --> 0:10:14.240 or anything like that. But if you are in the 0:10:14.400 --> 0:10:16.680 case where you haven't seen it yet and you don't 0:10:16.679 --> 0:10:19.600 want anything at all spoiled, you should probably stop here 0:10:19.720 --> 0:10:21.439 and go watch it first before you listen to the 0:10:21.480 --> 0:10:23.840 rest of the episode. But if you've already seen it, 0:10:24.040 --> 0:10:25.720 or you haven't seen it, and you don't care about 0:10:25.720 --> 0:10:27.640 minor spoilers that don't go all the way to all 0:10:27.679 --> 0:10:30.240 the endings, then you know, forge ahead with us. 0:10:30.240 --> 0:10:32.920 Please. However, some of you may be asking the question, 0:10:33.160 --> 0:10:35.880 what are you talking about? What is Black Mirror? So 0:10:35.880 --> 0:10:38.120 we should probably take a few minutes to just refresh 0:10:38.160 --> 0:10:41.160 you on what this is. It is a is the 0:10:41.160 --> 0:10:45.560 word refresh? Would that be the word? We should shock 0:10:45.640 --> 0:10:49.320 you to the bone? All right? So Black Mirror is 0:10:49.880 --> 0:10:54.440 in essence a sci fi anthology television series in the 0:10:54.480 --> 0:10:57.960 same vein as The Twilight Zone, the Outer Limits, these 0:10:58.040 --> 0:10:59.720 various shows we've discussed in the past. 0:11:00.320 --> 0:11:04.160 I might call it pretty often techno horror. Not every 0:11:04.200 --> 0:11:08.960 episode is the same, but there's essentially no horror movie 0:11:09.000 --> 0:11:13.720 as scary as the scariest episodes of Black Mirror, especially 0:11:13.840 --> 0:11:19.080 the ones that manage to take fairly plausible technological scenarios 0:11:19.160 --> 0:11:23.040 and follow them to their logical conclusions. I mean, it's 0:11:24.040 --> 0:11:26.120 it's a show that's very good at conjuring up the 0:11:26.160 --> 0:11:31.800 worst possible nightmares of like the intersection of capitalism and technology. 0:11:32.240 --> 0:11:37.560 Yeah, definitely, episodes tend to have a technological swing to 0:11:37.640 --> 0:11:40.720 the story, and they tend to deal on some level 0:11:41.120 --> 0:11:47.559 with contemporary anxiety about current technology and emerging technology. What 0:11:48.559 --> 0:11:51.520 are these technologies doing to our lives? What may they 0:11:51.559 --> 0:11:54.080 do to our lives in the future, And you know, 0:11:54.120 --> 0:11:57.480 sometimes they take varying specuative leaps there, of course, since 0:11:57.520 --> 0:12:01.199 it is science fiction. But you, I would say, you 0:12:01.280 --> 0:12:04.560 typically leave an episode of Black Mirror feeling a little 0:12:04.640 --> 0:12:08.080 worse about the world. I know that Netflix, their current masters, 0:12:08.400 --> 0:12:11.240 are very into the whole binge model, but I personally 0:12:11.240 --> 0:12:15.320 find it very difficult to binge Black Mirror, in part 0:12:15.360 --> 0:12:18.480 because each episode, of course, is a self contained story 0:12:18.840 --> 0:12:22.960 with characters and a plot, et cetera. But then also 0:12:23.120 --> 0:12:25.400 It's like they're often like a punch in the gut, 0:12:25.480 --> 0:12:28.120 and I just can't just sit there and take one 0:12:28.160 --> 0:12:29.080 punch after the other. 0:12:29.240 --> 0:12:32.640 Apart from one very sweet, very nice episode, there's essentially 0:12:32.800 --> 0:12:35.559 nothing that makes me feel as bad as Black Mirror. 0:12:37.080 --> 0:12:38.920 Well, you know, I was thinking. I was thinking about 0:12:38.920 --> 0:12:41.080 this because there are definitely some very bleak episode. There 0:12:41.080 --> 0:12:44.240 are episodes of Black Mirror that I admire that I 0:12:44.240 --> 0:12:48.440 will never watch again. But then I look back at 0:12:48.440 --> 0:12:50.880 my some of my favorite episodes. My favorite episodes are 0:12:50.880 --> 0:12:55.480 probably san Ju Napero, The Uss Callister, and metal Head. 0:12:56.559 --> 0:12:58.640 Two of those, one of those is still pretty bleak, 0:12:58.720 --> 0:13:02.199 but two of those are actually pretty upbeat, probably the 0:13:02.240 --> 0:13:06.840 most upbeat episodes of the show. And maybe that's the 0:13:06.840 --> 0:13:08.880 reason I would come back to them, because if I'm 0:13:08.920 --> 0:13:10.720 going to double dip, I want to double dip for 0:13:10.760 --> 0:13:13.360 optimism's sake. Now, in terms that we can't talk about 0:13:13.360 --> 0:13:18.040 Black Meir without talking about the creator behind it, the 0:13:18.080 --> 0:13:21.559 main creative individual behind it, and that is Charlie Brooker, 0:13:21.960 --> 0:13:26.160 a British writer and humorist who the earliest thing that 0:13:26.160 --> 0:13:27.800 he worked on that I was familiar with was that 0:13:27.840 --> 0:13:31.400 he worked on Chris Morris's excellent news satire Brass Eye, 0:13:32.440 --> 0:13:35.320 and then he also created a pretty great zombie movie 0:13:36.040 --> 0:13:39.080 titled Dead Set in two thousand and eight, in which 0:13:39.160 --> 0:13:43.440 the zombie apocalypse breaks out in and around a Big 0:13:43.480 --> 0:13:46.600 Brother style reality TV production. 0:13:46.720 --> 0:13:48.400 I feel like two thousand and eight was sort of 0:13:48.440 --> 0:13:50.480 like maybe two thousand and seven. Two thousand and eight 0:13:50.520 --> 0:13:52.600 was like peak zombie satire movie. 0:13:52.880 --> 0:13:56.000 Yeah. And the thing about this one, though, the premise 0:13:56.160 --> 0:13:59.120 sounds like a comedy, and so I acquired a copy 0:13:59.160 --> 0:14:01.240 of it, thinking, oh, this is a comedy, and this 0:14:01.280 --> 0:14:03.440 is a guy that worked on Brass Eye. This is 0:14:03.440 --> 0:14:06.560 going to be hilarious. And it is not a straight 0:14:06.640 --> 0:14:09.480 up comedy. It is a pretty terrifying film. But you 0:14:09.559 --> 0:14:12.360 see shades of that in Black Mirror. Sometimes there is 0:14:12.360 --> 0:14:17.079 a premise that could sound like a joke, but then 0:14:17.160 --> 0:14:22.520 it is taken and considered with such intensity that it works. Yeah. 0:14:22.560 --> 0:14:25.680 What if like a major tech company used eye tracking 0:14:25.720 --> 0:14:28.760 software to make sure you were always watching their ads 0:14:28.760 --> 0:14:31.400 and if you didn't watch them, they would ring sirens 0:14:31.440 --> 0:14:34.360 in your brain and deduct money from your bank account 0:14:34.440 --> 0:14:37.800 until you started watching the ads. Again, sounds like a joke, 0:14:37.920 --> 0:14:40.120 but like if you just said take that seriously for 0:14:40.200 --> 0:14:43.520 a bit and explore that becomes like a nightmare of 0:14:44.800 --> 0:14:45.640 technoci fi. 0:14:46.000 --> 0:14:50.680 Absolutely. Now. Black Mirror began in twenty ten two seasons 0:14:50.680 --> 0:14:53.160 in a holiday special came out and ran on Channel 0:14:53.160 --> 0:14:56.480 four in the UK. Then Netflix started carrying it, and 0:14:56.560 --> 0:15:00.320 Netflix became the owner of the main pub We'll share 0:15:00.400 --> 0:15:02.240 the program however you want to look at it, starting 0:15:02.240 --> 0:15:06.000 with season three in October of twenty sixteen. All in all, 0:15:06.000 --> 0:15:09.400 it has thus far gone five seasons twenty one episodes, 0:15:09.840 --> 0:15:13.040 and that's not counting the film Bandersnatch, which again came 0:15:13.040 --> 0:15:14.720 out in December of twenty eighteen. 0:15:14.960 --> 0:15:18.160 These bits of publisher information will actually become relevant later 0:15:18.200 --> 0:15:19.760 on as we discussed the story. 0:15:19.720 --> 0:15:21.400 Because the the ideas there. 0:15:21.480 --> 0:15:23.200 Yeah, because at the end we definitely get into some 0:15:23.240 --> 0:15:25.760 citiz scenarios where we have to consider the fact that 0:15:25.840 --> 0:15:30.160 Netflix is the business daddy behind Black Mirror. 0:15:30.320 --> 0:15:34.120 So Vandersnatch the film. The Black Mirror film was actually 0:15:34.160 --> 0:15:36.560 directed by David Slade, who I was like, where do 0:15:36.600 --> 0:15:38.840 I know that name from? He's done several things, but 0:15:38.920 --> 0:15:41.920 one of them was he did one of the Twilight movies. 0:15:42.400 --> 0:15:44.480 Yes, and I've seen that that particular one. It was 0:15:44.520 --> 0:15:47.720 the second one, I think, and it's that's a I'm 0:15:47.720 --> 0:15:50.360 not a huge Twilight fan, but that is a very 0:15:50.360 --> 0:15:52.840 watchable Twilight movie and it has a great soundtrack. It's 0:15:52.840 --> 0:15:55.560 got Tom York on it. Oh yeah, yeah. He also 0:15:55.640 --> 0:15:58.600 directed the Black Mirror episode metal Head that I alluded 0:15:58.600 --> 0:16:01.560 to earlier, and there are some callbacks to metal Head 0:16:01.640 --> 0:16:03.360 in the Bandersnatch episode. 0:16:03.760 --> 0:16:05.760 Now, I guess one thing we haven't gotten fully into 0:16:05.880 --> 0:16:08.920 so far is the fact that the Black Mirror movie 0:16:08.960 --> 0:16:13.480 Bandersnatch is it's an interactive movie, which makes it very unique. 0:16:13.640 --> 0:16:15.840 Right. This was the big selling point on it, and 0:16:16.600 --> 0:16:19.760 indeed is one of the mean it's a key part 0:16:19.760 --> 0:16:21.440 of the way you consume it, but it is also 0:16:21.640 --> 0:16:25.520 very important thematically, like you know, true to form, The 0:16:25.560 --> 0:16:28.880 creators here really thought long and hard about how to 0:16:29.000 --> 0:16:35.120 utilize an interactive system within the work and make the 0:16:35.160 --> 0:16:37.360 work comment on that system as well. 0:16:37.440 --> 0:16:40.040 Right, the interactive system being Netflix, like the fact that 0:16:40.080 --> 0:16:42.120 the user can make inputs on the movie. 0:16:42.320 --> 0:16:45.800 Yeah, basically, that's what it amounts to is you start 0:16:45.840 --> 0:16:49.840 off watching it, it seems like a normal Netflix presentation, but 0:16:49.960 --> 0:16:54.720 then your in my case, my Xbox one controller would 0:16:54.760 --> 0:16:58.560 suddenly vibrate and then this little the screen at the 0:16:58.560 --> 0:17:01.800 bottom of the screen. You're suddenly with two choices and 0:17:01.840 --> 0:17:05.240 a timer, and you have to choose, you know, what 0:17:05.359 --> 0:17:07.800 is going to happen, what the character is going to do, etc. 0:17:08.760 --> 0:17:12.040 Now this is you know, when you're just checking out 0:17:12.040 --> 0:17:14.920 the film, you might not realize how much work goes 0:17:14.960 --> 0:17:18.720 into this, but it took apparently a huge amount of 0:17:18.720 --> 0:17:22.040 work to shoot all these various branching paths, because it 0:17:22.080 --> 0:17:27.959 becomes this tree, this branching system of possibilities when you 0:17:28.000 --> 0:17:32.720 start presenting the user with these interactive choices. For instance, 0:17:33.080 --> 0:17:36.080 the previously the longest episode of Black Mirror was an 0:17:36.119 --> 0:17:39.600 episode called Hated in the Nation, which was eighty nine 0:17:39.640 --> 0:17:43.240 minutes long. That's future length, right, what ninety minutes is 0:17:43.320 --> 0:17:47.480 usually the length you shoot for with a shot film. Well, 0:17:47.840 --> 0:17:52.040 when you're watching Bandersnatch, depending on your choices, the film 0:17:52.080 --> 0:17:55.320 can run anywhere between ninety minutes and two and a 0:17:55.400 --> 0:17:59.800 half hours. And in order to make this work, as 0:18:00.040 --> 0:18:02.840 pointed out by a Jackie Strauss in The Hollywood Reporter, 0:18:03.720 --> 0:18:06.159 this means they had to shoot like five hours of 0:18:06.160 --> 0:18:09.000 footage so that they could actually cover all of these 0:18:09.040 --> 0:18:12.440 various choices. Wow, and you may watch it like, for instance, 0:18:12.760 --> 0:18:14.879 the first time I watched it, there were plenty of 0:18:14.920 --> 0:18:17.440 scenes I did not see, and then when I watched 0:18:17.480 --> 0:18:19.440 it again, there were films, there were scenes that I 0:18:19.440 --> 0:18:21.400 saw the first time that I did not see, and 0:18:21.480 --> 0:18:23.719 I got an entirely different ending that I'd never I 0:18:23.800 --> 0:18:25.760 didn't even know about. And then there are of course 0:18:25.840 --> 0:18:29.119 various Easter eggs and even I've read quote golden Easter 0:18:29.200 --> 0:18:32.640 eggs that are spread throughout, things that most viewers will 0:18:32.680 --> 0:18:35.439 not find unless they spend a great deal of time 0:18:35.840 --> 0:18:38.720 going through and going back through and backing up, etc. 0:18:39.680 --> 0:18:43.240 With this interactive piece encouraging unhealthy obsessive behavior. 0:18:43.520 --> 0:18:46.320 Yeah, exactly, I mean it is black mirror. Now, as 0:18:46.359 --> 0:18:52.000 far as the choices you make in Bandersnatch, you start 0:18:52.000 --> 0:18:56.360 off making very small choices, it seemed very consequential. For instance, 0:18:57.200 --> 0:19:01.200 choosing the main character's breakfast series he's presently his father 0:19:01.480 --> 0:19:04.119 shows two boxes and you decide which one he's going 0:19:04.200 --> 0:19:05.200 to have for breakfast. Yeah. 0:19:05.200 --> 0:19:07.399 I think it was what like frosted flakes or sugar 0:19:07.400 --> 0:19:09.840 puffs or something. I remember what I realized after I 0:19:09.880 --> 0:19:12.600 made that choice was I was like, oh no, I 0:19:12.600 --> 0:19:15.640 think I chose the brand that I was more familiar with. 0:19:15.920 --> 0:19:18.800 Ah, we'll come back to that later. That is an 0:19:18.840 --> 0:19:21.399 important point that we'll come back to later on in 0:19:21.440 --> 0:19:24.399 the episode. But yeah, at first, it's it's what kind 0:19:24.440 --> 0:19:26.359 of cereal does he want? All right? It doesn't doesn't 0:19:26.359 --> 0:19:28.320 seem to matter much, and it also gives you a 0:19:28.400 --> 0:19:32.520 chance to try out the technology low stakes. But and 0:19:32.960 --> 0:19:35.159 then also later on, you choose what music is going 0:19:35.240 --> 0:19:38.320 to listen to in when he's on the bus, which 0:19:38.320 --> 0:19:39.800 is kind of fun. I think you get to choose 0:19:39.840 --> 0:19:44.359 between a eurhythmic song and something else. I can't remember 0:19:44.440 --> 0:19:44.800 the other one. 0:19:44.800 --> 0:19:46.680 I think it's Thompson Twins. 0:19:46.359 --> 0:19:49.840 That's it. Yeah. And then later on he's in a 0:19:49.920 --> 0:19:51.919 record store and you get to choose which record he's 0:19:51.960 --> 0:19:53.840 going to buy. And this is also pretty great because 0:19:53.840 --> 0:19:57.439 one of the choices is Tangerine Dreams excellent nineteen seventy 0:19:57.480 --> 0:19:59.960 four album Phaedra, which is incredible. 0:20:00.200 --> 0:20:00.800 Absolutely. 0:20:00.840 --> 0:20:03.000 In fact, I was listening to that again this morning 0:20:03.080 --> 0:20:05.880 while I was doing some prep for this episode. 0:20:06.000 --> 0:20:09.320 Yeah, it's excellent stuff. However, this time around I forced 0:20:09.359 --> 0:20:12.919 myself to choose the other album instead, the other album 0:20:12.960 --> 0:20:18.320 being a Seo Tamita's the Bermuda Triangle, which very strange. Yeah, 0:20:18.440 --> 0:20:21.040 very strange work, but very good. I was really not 0:20:21.080 --> 0:20:24.280 that familiar with this artist or this work, which is 0:20:24.280 --> 0:20:26.720 apparently kind of hard to come by on streaming unless 0:20:26.760 --> 0:20:30.240 you just find like a YouTube full album rip. But yeah, 0:20:30.240 --> 0:20:33.000 this is just a taste of the soundtrack. The Bandersnatch 0:20:33.119 --> 0:20:36.080 is a wonderful soundtrack, including not only these artists but 0:20:36.119 --> 0:20:40.080 also deep esch Mode, Laurie Anderson. Great stuff. But let's 0:20:40.119 --> 0:20:43.680 come back to the choices you make in this interactive system. 0:20:44.240 --> 0:20:48.760 So again, they start off seeming largely inconsequential. They start 0:20:48.800 --> 0:20:50.840 off seeming a little bit fun. You know, it's just 0:20:50.960 --> 0:20:53.639 surface level stuff like what's his breakfast cereal, what's his 0:20:53.720 --> 0:20:57.919 musical choice? But then they become increasingly high stakes and 0:20:58.000 --> 0:21:01.800 even nerve racking to decide on. Suddenly, when you're controller 0:21:02.200 --> 0:21:05.800 vibrates and you're presented with this choice and sometimes dread, Yeah, 0:21:05.960 --> 0:21:08.280 you fill this dread because sometimes the choices neither one 0:21:08.359 --> 0:21:11.320 is all that great. Sometimes the choices are kind of horrible, 0:21:11.640 --> 0:21:15.280 and there's at least one point where you have no choice. 0:21:14.920 --> 0:21:18.719 There's something to select, but there's no alternative selection, and 0:21:18.760 --> 0:21:21.840 that feels maddening as well. And and you have a 0:21:21.880 --> 0:21:23.359 time or you have like what I think it's ten 0:21:23.480 --> 0:21:26.600 seconds to choose something, and if you don't choose, Netflix 0:21:26.680 --> 0:21:29.920