1 00:00:00,680 --> 00:00:02,960 Speaker 1: And this is the Warning. I'm very pleased to be 2 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:07,040 Speaker 1: joined on this edition of The Warning with Charlie Sadoff, 3 00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:13,320 Speaker 1: a documentary filmmaker. His newest release is Against All Enemies. 4 00:00:13,680 --> 00:00:16,200 Speaker 2: See how he has this tool where they measure levels 5 00:00:16,200 --> 00:00:18,680 Speaker 2: of insurgency, and if you just apply the tool to 6 00:00:18,800 --> 00:00:23,440 Speaker 2: the bless we are in an incipient consurgency. 7 00:00:24,680 --> 00:00:26,680 Speaker 3: How did I end up on one side of that door? 8 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:29,479 Speaker 4: Arm and my fellow veterans, how did they end up 9 00:00:29,480 --> 00:00:31,840 Speaker 4: on the other side of that door? I could see 10 00:00:31,840 --> 00:00:34,920 Speaker 4: a civil war in this fight that's far from over, 11 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:35,879 Speaker 4: and it may never be over. 12 00:00:36,479 --> 00:00:43,839 Speaker 3: I fond do solemnly report against and domestic. 13 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:45,840 Speaker 1: So help me go. Welcome, Charlie. 14 00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:48,080 Speaker 3: I see great to be with you today. 15 00:00:49,840 --> 00:00:58,840 Speaker 1: Let's talk about the title and its meaning. Against all Enemies. 16 00:00:59,040 --> 00:01:01,880 Speaker 2: Against all Enemies refers to the oath of Office and 17 00:01:01,920 --> 00:01:08,120 Speaker 2: oath of service that everyone in the military takes when 18 00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:12,520 Speaker 2: they enlist, and that particular line is against all Enemies, 19 00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:19,160 Speaker 2: foreign and domestic. And the reason that's the name of 20 00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:24,560 Speaker 2: the film is because what we look at is the 21 00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:29,200 Speaker 2: choice that military veterans make to join extremist groups and 22 00:01:29,440 --> 00:01:33,280 Speaker 2: seemingly betraying that oath by turning against the country that 23 00:01:33,280 --> 00:01:36,720 Speaker 2: they deserved, and we saw obviously evidence of that on 24 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:40,360 Speaker 2: January sixth, but it goes well beyond that. It started 25 00:01:40,400 --> 00:01:43,360 Speaker 2: long before January sixth, it's going to continue long after. 26 00:01:43,959 --> 00:01:45,919 Speaker 2: And so that's where the title comes from. 27 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:51,680 Speaker 1: I want to dwell deeper into the title because there's 28 00:01:51,720 --> 00:01:57,960 Speaker 1: a word in there that's important. Enemy. What is an enemy. 29 00:01:58,080 --> 00:02:01,480 Speaker 2: In the case of this film, And what we've discovered 30 00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:08,800 Speaker 2: is that the enemy is considered the enemy within, and 31 00:02:08,880 --> 00:02:14,240 Speaker 2: so this is something that was started. You started hearing 32 00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:16,600 Speaker 2: a lot of this after the Vietnam War. And there's 33 00:02:16,639 --> 00:02:20,920 Speaker 2: a character in our film named Lewis Beam who came 34 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:25,800 Speaker 2: back from Vietnam. He's a decorated veteran. He soon rose 35 00:02:25,919 --> 00:02:30,239 Speaker 2: to the head of the KKK in Texas, and he 36 00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:35,200 Speaker 2: was very explicit about the enemy within, who he identified 37 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:38,960 Speaker 2: as primarily Jews who had taken over the government, but 38 00:02:40,560 --> 00:02:45,640 Speaker 2: anyone basically anyone who wasn't white or didn't affirm the 39 00:02:45,639 --> 00:02:49,760 Speaker 2: idea that white men in particular should be running the country. 40 00:02:50,440 --> 00:02:54,280 Speaker 2: And so he identified the enemy as people in the 41 00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:57,919 Speaker 2: United States who were acting against this and set out 42 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:01,000 Speaker 2: to overthrow the government, and anyone who stood in the 43 00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:03,560 Speaker 2: way of that, and so that's persisted till today. 44 00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:05,480 Speaker 3: And now. 45 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:09,400 Speaker 2: You look at some of the statements coming from President Trump, 46 00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:11,640 Speaker 2: he's sort of using some of that same language about 47 00:03:11,639 --> 00:03:14,120 Speaker 2: the enemy within. If you look at, for example, his 48 00:03:14,240 --> 00:03:19,120 Speaker 2: Memorial Day through social posts just aimed at veterans, you know, 49 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:25,000 Speaker 2: he's identifying what essentially is what he's referring to as 50 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:25,639 Speaker 2: the enemy within. 51 00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:39,960 Speaker 1: Okay one, well. 52 00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:37,200 Speaker 4: Our guys up there, mess up, push your forces. 53 00:03:37,240 --> 00:03:38,680 Speaker 2: Bet we have another one. 54 00:03:38,720 --> 00:03:42,880 Speaker 4: But said retired to sarkes Up, I'm not surprised that 55 00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:46,440 Speaker 4: extremist organizations try to recruit veterans for the credibility that 56 00:03:46,480 --> 00:03:49,360 Speaker 4: we bring, but also for our commitment, and that commitment 57 00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:51,840 Speaker 4: takes a lot of forms. I mean, veterans are people 58 00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:54,000 Speaker 4: in our society who in many ways have said I 59 00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:57,240 Speaker 4: will do whatever is necessary to preserve what I believe in, 60 00:03:57,480 --> 00:03:58,640 Speaker 4: up to and including violence. 61 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:02,119 Speaker 5: Put a scope blowing into a big ends of the game. 62 00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:04,760 Speaker 1: That's so kind of ship they've been doing the whole career. 63 00:04:04,920 --> 00:04:06,720 Speaker 2: You know, now we're doing it here inside the United States. 64 00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:07,800 Speaker 1: It's got a weird feeling. 65 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:11,640 Speaker 2: The thing that most surprised me, or that I learned, 66 00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:18,520 Speaker 2: was that what Ali Sufon describes in the film as 67 00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:22,520 Speaker 2: sort of a salad bar of grievance narratives. When I 68 00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:27,560 Speaker 2: realized that things that seemingly don't why would Why would 69 00:04:27,760 --> 00:04:37,240 Speaker 2: COVID and immigration and anti wokeness and the Second Amendment? 70 00:04:38,279 --> 00:04:42,440 Speaker 2: What why would all these things be connected? And the 71 00:04:42,520 --> 00:04:45,360 Speaker 2: thing that was really fascinating is that, and this goes back, 72 00:04:45,960 --> 00:04:50,680 Speaker 2: you know, to the KKK. The original salad bar was 73 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:56,160 Speaker 2: what the KKK had was, you know, anti was blatant racism. 74 00:04:57,960 --> 00:05:01,400 Speaker 2: And then they evolved and and they used whatever tools 75 00:05:01,440 --> 00:05:04,920 Speaker 2: they could to recruit based on whatever the issue was 76 00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:07,960 Speaker 2: in the area that they were trying to recruit. And 77 00:05:08,040 --> 00:05:12,360 Speaker 2: now with these groups today on social media, they're able 78 00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:14,760 Speaker 2: to recruit so much more and they have a huge, 79 00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:20,359 Speaker 2: as he said, salad barbed grievance narratives you can dip into. 80 00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:23,000 Speaker 2: So if you're upset about the vaccine, or you're upset 81 00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:26,160 Speaker 2: about immigrants, or you're upset about someone potentially taking your 82 00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:28,560 Speaker 2: guns away, and of course the big lie is the 83 00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:30,520 Speaker 2: biggest one going on right now. If you think that 84 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:35,800 Speaker 2: your government was unduly elected and that there's a crime 85 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:38,280 Speaker 2: family now in the White Houses, which we heard a 86 00:05:38,279 --> 00:05:42,760 Speaker 2: lot of these things are all used to recruit people, 87 00:05:42,920 --> 00:05:49,359 Speaker 2: and particularly veterans, into these movements. And you might not 88 00:05:49,520 --> 00:05:53,839 Speaker 2: be someone who's necessarily a racist, or you might not 89 00:05:53,960 --> 00:05:57,440 Speaker 2: be someone who's anti semitic, but these groups, the thing 90 00:05:57,480 --> 00:06:03,160 Speaker 2: that unifies them all is white power. Ultimately, that's the goal, 91 00:06:03,320 --> 00:06:08,080 Speaker 2: white power. And so if you can get someone into 92 00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:11,640 Speaker 2: the movement through whatever this grievance narrative that is most 93 00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:15,480 Speaker 2: effective at that particular time, then you have an opportunity 94 00:06:15,520 --> 00:06:18,480 Speaker 2: to build your movement, and particularly with veterans. Veterans make 95 00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:22,719 Speaker 2: these these movements much more dangerous and much more appealing 96 00:06:23,120 --> 00:06:25,440 Speaker 2: because veterans have a lot of clout in this country. 97 00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:28,760 Speaker 2: So if you're in the Oathkeepers or you're the proud 98 00:06:28,760 --> 00:06:32,440 Speaker 2: boys of the three percenters, and you're able to recruit veterans, 99 00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:36,039 Speaker 2: you're not only making yourselves much more potent as a 100 00:06:36,040 --> 00:06:39,040 Speaker 2: potential violent force, but you're also giving yourself a lot 101 00:06:39,080 --> 00:06:42,240 Speaker 2: of credibility because people in this country really admire veterans, 102 00:06:42,279 --> 00:06:48,000 Speaker 2: and for good reason. But when they're recruited into these 103 00:06:48,200 --> 00:06:51,120 Speaker 2: these movements, they are then serving a different purpose than 104 00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:53,680 Speaker 2: what they signed up for and the oath they originally took, 105 00:06:53,960 --> 00:06:56,200 Speaker 2: and that makes it dangerous. So I would say this 106 00:06:56,320 --> 00:06:59,920 Speaker 2: idea that all these things are sort of interconnected in 107 00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:03,520 Speaker 2: a way that allows for greater recruitment into them is 108 00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:05,120 Speaker 2: something I found very fascinating. 109 00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:08,960 Speaker 1: When you talk about the ku klux Klan Iu raised 110 00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:15,000 Speaker 1: a really interesting point, and so are you talking about 111 00:07:15,880 --> 00:07:21,920 Speaker 1: the iterations of the clan as they've existed over the 112 00:07:21,960 --> 00:07:22,840 Speaker 1: history of it. 113 00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:24,160 Speaker 3: We look at this in the film. 114 00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:28,280 Speaker 2: The KKK was started as a quote unquote veteran social organization. 115 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:33,000 Speaker 2: Nathan Betteran Forrest started the KKK when he came out 116 00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:37,080 Speaker 2: of the Civil War, and it quickly transformed itself from 117 00:07:37,120 --> 00:07:39,640 Speaker 2: a veteran social organization, which is what the Proud Boys 118 00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:42,880 Speaker 2: call themselves, a veteran socialist organization. When he helped start 119 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:47,640 Speaker 2: the KKK as a veteran social organization, it quickly transformed 120 00:07:47,680 --> 00:07:51,560 Speaker 2: into a group intent on terrorizing blacks in the South, 121 00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:58,640 Speaker 2: and I think most importantly keeping blacks from voting. That 122 00:07:58,800 --> 00:08:04,160 Speaker 2: was a chief goal of the KKK. And they did 123 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:09,480 Speaker 2: that obviously through intimidation and this idea of have the 124 00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:15,360 Speaker 2: lost cause, and they were very effective at it, and 125 00:08:15,440 --> 00:08:19,360 Speaker 2: for and not just and a certain point they got. 126 00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:21,440 Speaker 2: The reason they were so effective is because they were 127 00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:25,400 Speaker 2: able to get an alignment with the Democratic Party at 128 00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:28,280 Speaker 2: the time, and they were able to rewrite the laws 129 00:08:28,320 --> 00:08:29,840 Speaker 2: of who was able to vote, and I know you 130 00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:33,040 Speaker 2: know all this in the South, but effectively kept blacks 131 00:08:33,040 --> 00:08:35,320 Speaker 2: from the polls in the South for one hundred years, 132 00:08:35,840 --> 00:08:41,000 Speaker 2: which is an incredible achievement. And as you said, the 133 00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:46,840 Speaker 2: KKK has then transformed itself and been very malleable and 134 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:53,240 Speaker 2: able to pivot away from just this idea of going 135 00:08:53,280 --> 00:08:59,280 Speaker 2: after this idea of only being racist, to being anti Catholic, 136 00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:04,800 Speaker 2: anti immigrant, anti Jewish, whatever the cause may be. And 137 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:09,520 Speaker 2: I think that what I hope people understand now is 138 00:09:09,559 --> 00:09:15,559 Speaker 2: that there's a direct link from the KKK to all 139 00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:20,480 Speaker 2: the way up to Timothy mcveay. In between that was 140 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:25,520 Speaker 2: Lewis Beam with Timothy mcveay, and now the language that 141 00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:28,480 Speaker 2: you hear, for example, from the folks in Michigan who 142 00:09:28,520 --> 00:09:31,400 Speaker 2: were trying to who are trying to kidnap and hang 143 00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:35,360 Speaker 2: Gretchen Whitmer using the same language that has been used 144 00:09:35,360 --> 00:09:39,040 Speaker 2: by the KKK and the likes of Lewis Beam and 145 00:09:39,600 --> 00:09:43,719 Speaker 2: Timothy McVay. This continues to today. There's a through line. 146 00:09:43,760 --> 00:09:47,200 Speaker 2: There's a through line, and so I think that's what 147 00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:49,319 Speaker 2: I like people to understand, because I think most people 148 00:09:49,360 --> 00:09:54,320 Speaker 2: would say, oh, you know, if they understood that, what 149 00:09:54,880 --> 00:09:56,520 Speaker 2: and the people who are even in these groups, if 150 00:09:56,520 --> 00:09:59,840 Speaker 2: they understood fully that what they're really doing is no 151 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:03,320 Speaker 2: different than what the KKK was doing, they might think 152 00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:07,720 Speaker 2: twice about joining these groups or espousing their stated purpose. 153 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:11,520 Speaker 2: And I hope that people who watch the film can 154 00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:13,920 Speaker 2: come away with that sort of understanding of what's really 155 00:10:13,960 --> 00:10:14,640 Speaker 2: going on here. 156 00:10:16,080 --> 00:10:21,080 Speaker 1: I want to talk about veterans who find their way 157 00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:25,800 Speaker 1: into these movements, and I want to spend a minute 158 00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:32,400 Speaker 1: talking about veterans and do so with some awareness of 159 00:10:33,320 --> 00:10:38,560 Speaker 1: an archetype, a stereotype in particular that emerged after the 160 00:10:38,679 --> 00:10:45,000 Speaker 1: Vietnam War when we were kids to the generation above us, 161 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:49,040 Speaker 1: and it played out in a couple of ways. You 162 00:10:49,320 --> 00:10:54,920 Speaker 1: had the arc type of the twisted, sick, demented veteran, 163 00:10:55,040 --> 00:11:01,160 Speaker 1: mentally ill. Robert de Niro in Taxi Driver right a 164 00:11:01,320 --> 00:11:07,200 Speaker 1: perfect example, Christopher Walkin's character in the end of The 165 00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:20,640 Speaker 1: Deer Hunter completely lost. So veterans as victim, veteran as broken, psychotic. 166 00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:28,160 Speaker 1: Most veterans do not find their way to either the 167 00:11:28,200 --> 00:11:37,559 Speaker 1: psych war or to the militia. Right, most veterans serve 168 00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:43,080 Speaker 1: and they come away from that service and go on 169 00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:47,520 Speaker 1: to do whatever they do in civilian life with a 170 00:11:47,559 --> 00:11:54,240 Speaker 1: lot of success. As is the case after all wars 171 00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:57,520 Speaker 1: that particularly won the last twenty years, there will be 172 00:11:57,640 --> 00:12:07,320 Speaker 1: a high world cost, traumatic injury, emotionally, destruction of the 173 00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:13,040 Speaker 1: human soul, all of these things that the nation that 174 00:12:13,160 --> 00:12:16,680 Speaker 1: the nation has an obligation to do. So when we're 175 00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:25,400 Speaker 1: talking about military veterans who find their way to these groups, 176 00:12:26,360 --> 00:12:32,240 Speaker 1: is there a common length. Were they disciplined in the military, 177 00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:40,000 Speaker 1: were they aggrieved in the military? Are they searching for 178 00:12:40,160 --> 00:12:48,240 Speaker 1: a community outside of the military. Who are these veterans? 179 00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:55,040 Speaker 1: What is this cohort a veteran that we're talking about. 180 00:12:55,280 --> 00:13:00,160 Speaker 2: I think you actually identified It's not it's all the 181 00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:02,280 Speaker 2: above or what you just what you just said. So 182 00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:06,600 Speaker 2: I think a lot a lot of them are when 183 00:13:06,640 --> 00:13:09,600 Speaker 2: they come out of the military are searching for that 184 00:13:09,679 --> 00:13:12,520 Speaker 2: camaraderie and that purpose that they had, and then when 185 00:13:12,559 --> 00:13:14,640 Speaker 2: they're out of the military, they don't have it anymore. 186 00:13:15,280 --> 00:13:18,199 Speaker 2: And then, as you know, Chris Goldsmith is in our 187 00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:20,760 Speaker 2: film says, when a guy like Stuart Rhodes comes along 188 00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:27,120 Speaker 2: and he's someone who he's wearing. And one thing he's 189 00:13:27,120 --> 00:13:28,800 Speaker 2: wearing the ipatch, so he looks like he is a 190 00:13:28,880 --> 00:13:31,240 Speaker 2: combat wounded veteran. He actually shot himself in the eye 191 00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:32,760 Speaker 2: on a shooting range here in the States. 192 00:13:34,120 --> 00:13:35,640 Speaker 3: But make it up. 193 00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:45,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, right, when he comes around, he says, look, they're 194 00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:51,040 Speaker 2: they're coming after your guns. The government doesn't doesn't honor you, 195 00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:53,280 Speaker 2: they don't respect you. They sent you off to a 196 00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:55,560 Speaker 2: war that you didn't really want to be that you know, 197 00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:59,200 Speaker 2: we had no business fighting. And here this is our 198 00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:01,640 Speaker 2: that we have a family for you now, and we're 199 00:14:01,640 --> 00:14:04,280 Speaker 2: gonna like, we're gonna give you purpose, and we're gonna 200 00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:08,439 Speaker 2: give you a mission. And the mission he, for example, 201 00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:11,920 Speaker 2: he gave before he went to jail was to try 202 00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:14,520 Speaker 2: and overthrow the US government. That's why he was convicted 203 00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:18,120 Speaker 2: of seditious conspiracy. So a lot of people are looking 204 00:14:18,160 --> 00:14:22,400 Speaker 2: for that, that camaraderie and that that that sense of 205 00:14:22,440 --> 00:14:25,800 Speaker 2: belonging again. I think probably a number of them, as 206 00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:33,000 Speaker 2: you said, some obviously have are suffering from PTSD. Some 207 00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:35,600 Speaker 2: may have been disciplined in the in the military while 208 00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:38,520 Speaker 2: they were there. I think, you know, you get across section. 209 00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:43,240 Speaker 2: I think the other thing is what we noticed with 210 00:14:43,480 --> 00:14:46,960 Speaker 2: what we and what we found out with the younger 211 00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:50,520 Speaker 2: generation who are being recruited into things like groups like 212 00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:54,960 Speaker 2: the Patriot Front is these are a younger generation Gen 213 00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:58,560 Speaker 2: Z soldiers who they they signed up for the military 214 00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:02,160 Speaker 2: and never got a chance to fight, and now this 215 00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:07,720 Speaker 2: is their chance to fight. So they're being told, you know, 216 00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:10,360 Speaker 2: they wanted they were looking for action in the military, 217 00:15:10,400 --> 00:15:13,240 Speaker 2: they never got it, and now okay, here's your chance. 218 00:15:13,640 --> 00:15:18,080 Speaker 2: Here's your chance to take take your skills that you 219 00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:20,360 Speaker 2: never got to use overseas, but you can use them 220 00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:23,960 Speaker 2: here at home. And so that's that's a dangerous proposition, 221 00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:26,960 Speaker 2: especially with these younger kids who are who never got 222 00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:29,480 Speaker 2: the chance to fight and want to fight, and for 223 00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:35,240 Speaker 2: that and also for the same thing applies to veterans 224 00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:38,000 Speaker 2: who were overseas, like we see evidence of the guys 225 00:15:38,040 --> 00:15:40,520 Speaker 2: who are in special Forces who definitely fought overseas and 226 00:15:40,520 --> 00:15:43,440 Speaker 2: when they come back, it's, as Denver Riggleman says, you 227 00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:46,600 Speaker 2: get a chance to fight again. And that's something it's 228 00:15:46,680 --> 00:15:48,600 Speaker 2: very appealing for some of them. And now again it's 229 00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:52,400 Speaker 2: a small percentage, and we're not there's no intention to 230 00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:56,160 Speaker 2: indict all veterans, but a small percentage of veterans, especially 231 00:15:56,160 --> 00:15:57,880 Speaker 2: once you are in the special forces, can make a 232 00:15:57,960 --> 00:16:04,200 Speaker 2: huge difference. They're what we call force multiples. So that's 233 00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:06,480 Speaker 2: that's sort of what the film gets into, is this 234 00:16:06,600 --> 00:16:08,720 Speaker 2: idea that even a small number of veterans can have 235 00:16:08,760 --> 00:16:09,800 Speaker 2: an outsized impact. 236 00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:12,320 Speaker 1: Our group was the second group to inter Afghanistan. 237 00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:16,920 Speaker 5: Get help, so enticing you get to fight again. You know, 238 00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:19,320 Speaker 5: you're trained in certain things. You know you can see 239 00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:22,080 Speaker 5: the battlefield better if you believe the country is under attack. 240 00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:23,880 Speaker 5: You have a certain set of skills that maybe you 241 00:16:23,880 --> 00:16:27,440 Speaker 5: were trained trained with that you can, you know, help 242 00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:29,960 Speaker 5: the group around you. Right, You're a force multiplier. 243 00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:34,360 Speaker 4: They're coming. 244 00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:36,040 Speaker 3: Your Lucomo's ready to go. 245 00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:39,920 Speaker 2: Hey guys, everybody spread out, good eyes open, get a 246 00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:40,600 Speaker 2: good perimeter. 247 00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:46,080 Speaker 1: They light shot on fire. We can shoot on la yep, 248 00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:53,200 Speaker 1: very fucking well. Hopefully they light show on. Do you 249 00:16:53,280 --> 00:16:59,400 Speaker 1: see a moment of armed conflict coming where there is 250 00:16:59,800 --> 00:17:10,679 Speaker 1: a separatist group that has control of a road or 251 00:17:11,119 --> 00:17:17,679 Speaker 1: entrance into geographic territory? So I'm thinking, uh, for example, 252 00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:23,560 Speaker 1: in the state of Idaho, back to the Canadian border. 253 00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:31,320 Speaker 1: You know road system heavily heavily wooded. Couple hundred, couple 254 00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:35,320 Speaker 1: hundred guys up there are who declare, this is now 255 00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:40,440 Speaker 1: the Republic of trump Istan. We control it, right, it's 256 00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:44,400 Speaker 1: the it's the it's the it's the white Republic of whatever. 257 00:17:45,119 --> 00:17:49,879 Speaker 1: Do you see that happening? Do you do you see 258 00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:56,320 Speaker 1: do you see action happening in a in a coordinated, 259 00:17:56,760 --> 00:18:02,520 Speaker 1: sophisticated fashion as a move man in a in a 260 00:18:03,480 --> 00:18:07,399 Speaker 1: unity of action involving say more than one hundred people 261 00:18:08,119 --> 00:18:13,600 Speaker 1: simultaneously anywhere in the country over the next couple of years, 262 00:18:13,840 --> 00:18:18,159 Speaker 1: again after January sixth and or with weapons? Do you 263 00:18:18,240 --> 00:18:20,480 Speaker 1: see a possibility of that one thing? 264 00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:23,160 Speaker 2: You hear a lot about the groups like the Proud Boys, 265 00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:24,680 Speaker 2: the Oathkeepers, the three Percenters. 266 00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:27,800 Speaker 3: Is a lot of people says, oh, these people are knuckleheads. 267 00:18:27,840 --> 00:18:30,760 Speaker 2: You know, they're not really organ there, they're not really 268 00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:31,840 Speaker 2: that much of a threat. 269 00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:33,960 Speaker 3: What do we have to worry about them for? 270 00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:37,880 Speaker 2: They're out there doing like they're they're a little training sessions, you. 271 00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:39,320 Speaker 3: Know, out in the woods. 272 00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:42,520 Speaker 2: What are they really going to do? And Alifon I said, 273 00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:46,080 Speaker 2: Ali Sufon said, yeah, we said the same thing about 274 00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:49,119 Speaker 2: the Taliban before nine to eleven. Oh, they're just a 275 00:18:49,119 --> 00:18:52,560 Speaker 2: bunch of people in caves who don't know what they're doing. 276 00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:58,960 Speaker 2: And he says the threat of these groups is the 277 00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:03,280 Speaker 2: greatest threat to the United States today, these violent extremes groups. 278 00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:05,560 Speaker 3: So can I say exactly who it's going to be. 279 00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:10,920 Speaker 2: No, but it's going to be some group, like some militia, 280 00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:16,720 Speaker 2: like the three Percenters, like the Oathkeepers, like the Patriot Front. 281 00:19:16,760 --> 00:19:19,439 Speaker 2: And I think Idaho is a great example, see because 282 00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:22,880 Speaker 2: a lot of the activity of these groups has been 283 00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:26,320 Speaker 2: in Idaho for since the seventies. 284 00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:27,760 Speaker 3: That's where they all sort. 285 00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:31,159 Speaker 2: Of gathered in Hayden Lake to have their Conference of 286 00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:36,080 Speaker 2: Hate and that after that there was there was a 287 00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:39,480 Speaker 2: group who met in the eighties and Lewis Bean was 288 00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:41,560 Speaker 2: part of that. And after that there were a number 289 00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:44,320 Speaker 2: of cell style terrorist attacks that took place in the 290 00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:48,120 Speaker 2: United States over the course of four or five years. 291 00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:52,200 Speaker 2: And it wasn't committed by one hundred or so folks, 292 00:19:52,280 --> 00:19:55,840 Speaker 2: but it was, you know, a number of groups. And 293 00:19:57,119 --> 00:19:59,240 Speaker 2: Lewis Bean in that group was actually put on trial 294 00:19:59,280 --> 00:20:02,560 Speaker 2: and they were a qui for trying to overthrow the government. 295 00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:04,679 Speaker 2: But I see no reason why the same thing is 296 00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:09,120 Speaker 2: not going to happen. I don't think it happened before 297 00:20:09,119 --> 00:20:14,119 Speaker 2: the election, But I think if the election is going 298 00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:19,160 Speaker 2: to be a marker, because either look, there's two outcomes, right, 299 00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:22,040 Speaker 2: Biden's going to win or Trump's going to win. And 300 00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:26,800 Speaker 2: if Biden wins, can you imagine Trump and his supporters 301 00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:29,520 Speaker 2: taking that and saying accepting the results of that election. 302 00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:35,960 Speaker 2: And I think the fact that Trump has been calling 303 00:20:37,119 --> 00:20:42,280 Speaker 2: the people who storm the Capitol on January sixth and 304 00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:47,800 Speaker 2: have since been tried and convicted and in prison, they're 305 00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:51,040 Speaker 2: now he's now referring to them as political prisoners patriots, 306 00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:56,040 Speaker 2: that's there's a reason for that. It's not just I 307 00:20:56,080 --> 00:21:01,639 Speaker 2: think that he's trying to, you know, kowtow to his base. 308 00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:05,320 Speaker 2: I think perhaps he's giving a signal that if this 309 00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:09,000 Speaker 2: thing happens again, you all the people who are there 310 00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:13,199 Speaker 2: are martyrs, don't look at them as criminals. And so 311 00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:16,680 Speaker 2: he's there's an opening there for people to take action. 312 00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:19,480 Speaker 2: And I think I would not all be surprised if 313 00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:21,280 Speaker 2: we do, in fact see. 314 00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:25,600 Speaker 3: Those kind of things you're talking about. Those I don't. 315 00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:27,440 Speaker 2: It's not there's not going to be a standing army, 316 00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:29,240 Speaker 2: it's not going to be a civil war like we 317 00:21:29,359 --> 00:21:33,400 Speaker 2: had in the eighteen hundreds, but there will be pockets 318 00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:38,120 Speaker 2: of resistance, and I think violence, and that's that's what 319 00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:39,919 Speaker 2: we're scared of, and that's what we try and explore 320 00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:43,960 Speaker 2: in the film is the idea that the election and 321 00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:48,399 Speaker 2: our political differences which you articulated before, which we're usually 322 00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:53,360 Speaker 2: about difference in the tax rates on our our differences 323 00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:55,320 Speaker 2: have gotten so big that the only way to solve 324 00:21:55,359 --> 00:22:00,000 Speaker 2: them is through violence potentially. And that's that's what's scary. 325 00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:04,680 Speaker 1: Curious listening to you. If the name Robert eve Lee 326 00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:11,720 Speaker 1: ever comes up when you talk about any of this, 327 00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:17,160 Speaker 1: with any of these groups, any of the people that 328 00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:26,720 Speaker 1: become involved in it, how central is he mythologically at 329 00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:28,640 Speaker 1: the core of this. 330 00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:30,719 Speaker 3: So General Lee's name doesn't come up. 331 00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:33,560 Speaker 2: But there's another general who's name general whose name comes 332 00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:36,000 Speaker 2: up a lot, and that's General Michael Flynn. The thing 333 00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:38,800 Speaker 2: that's really interesting to me about Flynn is that when 334 00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:41,160 Speaker 2: he was part of the Obama administration, he was promoted 335 00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:45,000 Speaker 2: to the head of I believe it was a defense 336 00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:50,440 Speaker 2: intelligence and Leon Panetta in his ceremony in the promotion 337 00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:55,119 Speaker 2: ceremony says, no one has a greater understanding of the 338 00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:58,960 Speaker 2: twenty first century battlefield than Michael Flynn, and obviously the 339 00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:03,080 Speaker 2: twenty first century battle field is online, and so now 340 00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:06,679 Speaker 2: Michael Flynn is engaged in what recruiting what he calls 341 00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:12,239 Speaker 2: an army of digital soldiers, and you know, it can 342 00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:13,560 Speaker 2: be argue what he wants. 343 00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:14,600 Speaker 3: Those digital soldiers to do. 344 00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:16,840 Speaker 2: He's obviously he's you know, what he's doing right now 345 00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:18,680 Speaker 2: is encouraged people to run for office. 346 00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:23,680 Speaker 1: I'm gonna stop you right there for a second, because 347 00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:29,119 Speaker 1: I don't think that's correct, right. I think it's perfectly clear, 348 00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:32,800 Speaker 1: and I think you know, it's perfectly clear, right, I 349 00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:39,040 Speaker 1: think you address at with a figure of speech, right, 350 00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:45,359 Speaker 1: But it's but it's perfectly clear what he wants to 351 00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:53,520 Speaker 1: have happen. And in fact, there's another documentary that appeared 352 00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:58,439 Speaker 1: on Frontline and the Associated Press, which I have no 353 00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:04,159 Speaker 1: doubt that you've seen, where Michelle Smith, who is the 354 00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:10,480 Speaker 1: superb AP reporter who leads the story. At the end 355 00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:14,320 Speaker 1: of this documentary, she goes for a walk in the 356 00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:22,520 Speaker 1: woods and it is a park like area and then 357 00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:29,080 Speaker 1: you hear the sound of automatic weapons fire. Family's on 358 00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:33,320 Speaker 1: one side of the giant fence with Raizor Yre on 359 00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:38,159 Speaker 1: top of it. In Michael Flynn's compound on the other side, 360 00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:43,040 Speaker 1: where they're training for what they're training for civil war 361 00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:52,200 Speaker 1: according to who, according to you, according to me, according 362 00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:55,560 Speaker 1: to General Flint, that's what they're That is what they 363 00:24:55,600 --> 00:25:00,280 Speaker 1: are doing. And so I just think it's important in 364 00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:07,720 Speaker 1: at for the audience, for the audience to understand the 365 00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:14,560 Speaker 1: perfect clarity of the motive, of the intentionality of what 366 00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:21,520 Speaker 1: it is these folks are doing nine years in to 367 00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:26,840 Speaker 1: an unfolding event that that is closer and closer and 368 00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:32,560 Speaker 1: closer and closer to doing real damage to the to 369 00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:39,080 Speaker 1: the to the core foundation, the keystone, the cornerstone of 370 00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:39,760 Speaker 1: the country. 371 00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:43,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean so in the film, we definitely we 372 00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:47,040 Speaker 2: have Chris Goldsmith. He speaks very eloquently about Michael Clinton 373 00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:51,800 Speaker 2: and what his objectives are, which is to create a 374 00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:57,000 Speaker 2: country where people are decided people, the country is separated 375 00:25:57,000 --> 00:26:00,840 Speaker 2: by your in and out group and it's all about 376 00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:04,480 Speaker 2: power for him obviously. And so, yeah, I won't disagree 377 00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:07,679 Speaker 2: with what you're saying about what Flinn's intentions are and 378 00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:12,919 Speaker 2: he but back to what I was saying before his knowledge, 379 00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:18,040 Speaker 2: I don't think he should be taken lightly because, as 380 00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:23,720 Speaker 2: Panetta said, he understands how to foment and create insurgencies 381 00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:25,760 Speaker 2: because he's spent his entire. 382 00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:27,800 Speaker 3: Career trying to figure out how to combat them. 383 00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:32,040 Speaker 2: And so that's what makes him particularly dangerous, because if 384 00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:35,200 Speaker 2: his intent is to foment an insurgency or an insurrection 385 00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:38,040 Speaker 2: against the government of the United States, there's probably no 386 00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:42,440 Speaker 2: one more capable of figuring out how to do that. 387 00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:49,200 Speaker 1: Do you have any sense if anybody in the United 388 00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:57,800 Speaker 1: States Army, in the Institution of the United States Armed 389 00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:06,360 Speaker 1: the retired four Star Officer Corps, do any of them 390 00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:13,040 Speaker 1: look at Flynn and say, we have a problem here 391 00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:23,680 Speaker 1: that exceeds a corrupt general, an abusive general, a criminal general. 392 00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:27,080 Speaker 2: Well, we spoke to Stan the Crystal in the film, 393 00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:33,160 Speaker 2: and he and Flynn have been friends and colleagues for years. 394 00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:45,639 Speaker 2: And I think that Stan General Crystal, he views he 395 00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:50,680 Speaker 2: views Flynn now as sort of a political figure, and 396 00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:55,840 Speaker 2: I think he thinks what he's doing is dangerous. But 397 00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:58,280 Speaker 2: I don't know that there's been any sort of collective 398 00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:02,359 Speaker 2: action or thought. Are anyone's gotten together behind the scenes 399 00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:05,080 Speaker 2: to figure out what they can do about it, Not 400 00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:09,640 Speaker 2: that I'm aware of. And you know, Flynn, it's one 401 00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:13,199 Speaker 2: thing that's interesting. You know, Flynn's spoken out was you know, 402 00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:17,560 Speaker 2: claimed that coronavirus was created by the government to help 403 00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:22,560 Speaker 2: to you know, get control of the people. This whole 404 00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:28,800 Speaker 2: sort of regurgitating the same idea about installing chips into 405 00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:31,160 Speaker 2: people as a means of getting control of them, which 406 00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:33,520 Speaker 2: is something you you know, with the conspiracy theory going 407 00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:38,960 Speaker 2: back to the eighties with Nelson Rockefeller, and he's spoken 408 00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:46,400 Speaker 2: out against the US government and he's you know, he's convicted, fellain, 409 00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:50,080 Speaker 2: but I believe he's still getting his army pension. So 410 00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:54,400 Speaker 2: it's it's not even you know, there's there haven't even 411 00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:56,560 Speaker 2: taken any kind of action against him whatsoever. 412 00:28:56,640 --> 00:28:57,280 Speaker 3: So I don't know. 413 00:28:57,480 --> 00:28:59,440 Speaker 2: I don't think there's been any sort of talk about 414 00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:03,040 Speaker 2: what can be done about him amongst other groups of 415 00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:06,440 Speaker 2: retired generals, at least I haven't seen it. 416 00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:13,240 Speaker 1: When when people watch this, watch this film, and they 417 00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:16,760 Speaker 1: and they get to the end of it, the impression 418 00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:19,720 Speaker 1: you will have wanted to leave them with is. 419 00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:26,240 Speaker 2: That the threat of political violence is real. I think 420 00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:32,480 Speaker 2: people dismiss that at their own peril, that veterans play 421 00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:39,240 Speaker 2: an outsized role in making that violence more potent and likely, 422 00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:46,640 Speaker 2: and that if there's an opportunity to get people, get 423 00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:49,240 Speaker 2: veterans that you know, or that veterans who watch the 424 00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:52,040 Speaker 2: film onto an off ramp where they're not where they're 425 00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:55,760 Speaker 2: not in these misinformation bubbles that are convincing them that 426 00:29:55,840 --> 00:30:01,560 Speaker 2: the election was stolen, that coronavirus was manipulated to get 427 00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:06,800 Speaker 2: control of the country, that immigrants are you know that 428 00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:08,280 Speaker 2: there's a great replacement theory. 429 00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:10,240 Speaker 3: Whatever we can do to. 430 00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:14,640 Speaker 2: Try and get veterans onto a different path should be taken, 431 00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:17,240 Speaker 2: And I think Ken Harbaugh, who is a co producer 432 00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:21,480 Speaker 2: with me, who you know, often talks about how the 433 00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:24,680 Speaker 2: best way to do that is to have actual conversations 434 00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:28,000 Speaker 2: with veterans that you know, don't rely on the system 435 00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:32,360 Speaker 2: to do it. If the system was better, if the 436 00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:35,680 Speaker 2: transition is the transition out of the military was perhaps 437 00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:41,880 Speaker 2: a little bit something that was a better thought out 438 00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:44,400 Speaker 2: and organized process for a lot of these veterans, we 439 00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:45,960 Speaker 2: might not be having as many of these problems. 440 00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:47,520 Speaker 3: But that's a bigger issue. 441 00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:50,880 Speaker 2: So the best way now for to try and get 442 00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:53,320 Speaker 2: veterans out of this bubble and to get them away 443 00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:55,760 Speaker 2: from groups like the Oarthkeepers is to just talk to 444 00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:58,640 Speaker 2: them as best you can and tell them what's happening. 445 00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:02,200 Speaker 1: Do you have a sense to which the way that 446 00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:15,880 Speaker 1: we've left Afghanistan has become a fuel for extremists who 447 00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:20,840 Speaker 1: prey on a sense of moral injury. 448 00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:23,560 Speaker 2: You know, we don't dig into that into the film 449 00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:28,120 Speaker 2: per se, but I think it's an example and a 450 00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:32,080 Speaker 2: good one of this sense of betrayal that can be 451 00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:36,520 Speaker 2: manipulated and the idea that we've left people behind. The 452 00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:41,560 Speaker 2: government has not lived up to its obligations to the 453 00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:46,760 Speaker 2: soldiers and all the other military branches that served in Afghanistan. 454 00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:52,000 Speaker 2: The idea that we would walk away fuels that sense 455 00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:54,160 Speaker 2: of betrayal and that lack of trust in the government, 456 00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:57,840 Speaker 2: and the idea that the government isn't supporting veterans, isn't 457 00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:02,040 Speaker 2: supporting the cause. I think that can be manipulated in 458 00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:03,680 Speaker 2: a way the same way that it was after the 459 00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:04,400 Speaker 2: Vietnam War. 460 00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:08,600 Speaker 1: When you look at this moment, you you seem to 461 00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:13,320 Speaker 1: be at a place that I find myself at, which 462 00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:18,160 Speaker 1: is and I can just teel through the through the 463 00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:23,080 Speaker 1: zoom camera on the other side of the screen. You 464 00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:31,320 Speaker 1: anticipate political violence and at some scale and at some 465 00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:37,680 Speaker 1: prolonged intensity, and you think it's coming soon and you 466 00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:42,400 Speaker 1: think it can't be stopped or am I misinterpreting. 467 00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:45,720 Speaker 2: That so ironically, I think the one thing that could 468 00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:52,440 Speaker 2: stop it is if Trump wins the election, because then 469 00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:59,840 Speaker 2: his call, you know, his when he spoke to Tucker Carlson. 470 00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:02,400 Speaker 2: But for a long time, I feel like this idea 471 00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:06,880 Speaker 2: of civil war or insurgency or political violence was something 472 00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:11,280 Speaker 2: that the left was accused of being hyperbolic about. But 473 00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:14,760 Speaker 2: you've seen a transition now where both sides are talking 474 00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:18,000 Speaker 2: about it. And when Trump went on Tucker Carlson's show 475 00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:20,960 Speaker 2: on Acts, they openly talked that. Trump talked about how 476 00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:24,880 Speaker 2: angry everyone is and how it's going to be, you know, 477 00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:27,560 Speaker 2: how that there's he believes, you know who knows what 478 00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:30,719 Speaker 2: he believes. He said that the idea of a civil 479 00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:34,680 Speaker 2: war is put is possible and so and I don't 480 00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:36,480 Speaker 2: think he's doing anything to discourage that. 481 00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:40,440 Speaker 3: So I think two things. 482 00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:44,520 Speaker 2: Could happen if if Biden wins and the Republican Party 483 00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:48,560 Speaker 2: in general, not just Trump, but if somehow the other 484 00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:51,320 Speaker 2: leaders of the Republican Party came out and said the 485 00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:55,600 Speaker 2: election is valid, we don't want to contest it, let's 486 00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:59,680 Speaker 2: just move on. Maybe that would help, But do you 487 00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:02,520 Speaker 2: see that that happening. I don't see that happening. 488 00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:04,440 Speaker 3: And if. 489 00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:09,800 Speaker 2: But if Trump wins, then there won't you know, there's 490 00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:13,360 Speaker 2: there's sort of these kinetic events that you describe in 491 00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:18,640 Speaker 2: Idaho and other places are less likely in my opinion, So. 492 00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:27,880 Speaker 1: The great national extortion, and this is the key in 493 00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:33,920 Speaker 1: part to the assumption of power always by every autocratic 494 00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:38,800 Speaker 1: movement through an election process. That chaos. 495 00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:40,120 Speaker 4: Or me. 496 00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:50,560 Speaker 3: There you go. You know, I think, I know you're 497 00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:53,080 Speaker 3: going to Poland soon. 498 00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:57,480 Speaker 2: And the film our film played at a in Poland 499 00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:00,360 Speaker 2: at a film festival there and you know, won the 500 00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:03,480 Speaker 2: audience award because it happened, it happened to screen right 501 00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:06,040 Speaker 2: after they had their election. And I guess this is 502 00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:07,759 Speaker 2: the one thing that gives me a little hope is 503 00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:12,640 Speaker 2: that in that country, where the ruling party had control 504 00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:18,960 Speaker 2: of the media, control of all methods of you know, 505 00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:24,000 Speaker 2: all levers of government and all institutions, somehow the left 506 00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:28,200 Speaker 2: leaning party won that election. It was a huge upset, 507 00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:34,600 Speaker 2: and I think the people in Poland were very taken 508 00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:39,479 Speaker 2: by our film because at the time they were very 509 00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:44,240 Speaker 2: concerned about what was happening in their country. The results 510 00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:48,520 Speaker 2: of the election were contested. The ruling party was saying, 511 00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:50,759 Speaker 2: oh that the election was fake. It was you know, 512 00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:54,000 Speaker 2: we contact you know, they said it wasn't invalid, and 513 00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:56,080 Speaker 2: they were very concerned that the results of the election 514 00:35:56,160 --> 00:35:58,960 Speaker 2: might not hold. Eventually it did, which was great news 515 00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:04,040 Speaker 2: for Poland and Europe. So there are you know, sort 516 00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:08,359 Speaker 2: of these little silvers of hope that you know, uh, 517 00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:10,959 Speaker 2: little de democracy can win out. 518 00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:16,480 Speaker 1: But we'll see, Well, what a perfect place to leave it. 519 00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:22,279 Speaker 1: This is an important film for people to watch, to see. 520 00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:26,040 Speaker 1: This is an important subject and it's here and so 521 00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:30,600 Speaker 1: I can't wait for more people to see this because 522 00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:36,080 Speaker 1: it is essential for Americas to understand the hour we 523 00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:39,400 Speaker 1: have arrived at. Thank you very very much for your 524 00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:40,040 Speaker 1: time today. 525 00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:43,360 Speaker 3: Thank you, Steve, is a great, great privilege to be 526 00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:43,640 Speaker 3: with you. 527 00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:48,080 Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to my political commentary. If you 528 00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:52,239 Speaker 1: like what you heard today, please also consider subscribing to 529 00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:55,560 Speaker 1: The Warning Daily newsletter on substack.