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Speaker 1: Welcome everybody to this warning. Addition, we're thrilled to be

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Speaker 1: able to bring you jud Legum. Jud is an extraordinary journalist,

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Speaker 1: one of the leaders of this new era of independent journalism,

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Speaker 1: of people that can't be bought off, can't be made

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Speaker 1: to bend the knee, can't be made to capitulate, and

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Speaker 1: fundamentally are on your side if you're an ordinary person

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Speaker 1: out there trying to understand what's going on. I have

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Speaker 1: a political perspective that one of the issues of our

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Speaker 1: time that must be dealt with very squarely is the

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Speaker 1: accumulation of power, government power, police power, tech company power,

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Speaker 1: pharmaceutical company power, the power of monopolists, the power of

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Speaker 1: conglomerate that have stifled competition, that have become intrusive of privacy,

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Speaker 1: have become arrogant, have become officious. Extraordinary moment that marks

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Speaker 1: the end of an era, the beginning of a new one.

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Speaker 1: At Trump's inaugural where he is sitting there seating the

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Speaker 1: American oligarchs for the world to see, even in front

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Speaker 1: of his cabinet. The indiscriminate, thoughtless damage done to public

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Speaker 1: institutions without debate by the world's richest man, Elon musk

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Speaker 1: the disintegration of that relationship. Jud Legum covers all of

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Speaker 1: it and goes in depth, substantively reports facts that are

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Speaker 1: necessary for citizens to have. In a free society, where

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Speaker 1: there's no accountability, there can't be any oversight of government.

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Speaker 1: And in this country, government is of the people, by

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Speaker 1: the people, for the people, by design, and so we

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Speaker 1: see a lot of testing, a lot of probing, a

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Speaker 1: lot of assertion, and a lot of crumbling of institutions.

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Speaker 1: And with jud Legum you have somebody who can help

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Speaker 1: explain it. If you do not subscribe to popular information,

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Speaker 1: I really urge you to do so. This is something

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Speaker 1: that I read very very very early in my reading

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Speaker 1: cycle of the day. It's something that I put in

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Speaker 1: the first rank of credibility. I know when jud Legum

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Speaker 1: says that this is the story of what has happened here.

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Speaker 1: If this is asserted in a jud Legum story as

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Speaker 1: a fact, it's a fact. And so we have spaces

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Speaker 1: in this country where you can be informed, where you

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Speaker 1: can find out what's happening, but it's on you to

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Speaker 1: go find it, and so to be better informed, I

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Speaker 1: really urge you to go to popular information and arm

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Speaker 1: yourself with information and popular information. I imagine jud had a

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Speaker 1: very specific meaning when you when you named it, Can

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Speaker 1: you take us inside that how it came to be

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Speaker 1: and as you were sitting there in that moment that hey,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm gonna do this, how this gets started

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Speaker 1: and how the name come to be.

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Speaker 2: Well, you know, there's a there's a a famous quote

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Speaker 2: that a democracy, you know, without popular information or the

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Speaker 2: means for acquiring it, is a prologue to a farce

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Speaker 2: or a tragedy. H And that was by James Badison,

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Speaker 2: and the idea being that democracy itself, the whole premise

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Speaker 2: of it is focused on people having an accurate understanding

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Speaker 2: of the world so they can make decisions the whole

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Speaker 2: massive people.

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Speaker 1: Uh.

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Speaker 2: And I think that that's something that's really under attack.

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Speaker 3: Obviously.

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Speaker 2: You have an administration now that is basing a lot

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Speaker 2: of its efforts on inculcating people with ideas that that

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Speaker 2: are are grounded in reality.

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Speaker 3: So that's you know, that's really what what I'm trying

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Speaker 3: to do.

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Speaker 2: Uh, you know, and I'm not going to get to

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Speaker 2: everything I do four for newsletters a week, but trying

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Speaker 2: to pick out the things that are the most important

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Speaker 2: or that not necessarily even the most important, but the

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Speaker 2: things that I feel like are not getting adequate coverage

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Speaker 2: elsewhere where I can provide some added value and bringing

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Speaker 2: that to as many people as possible. So it's not designed,

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Speaker 2: I think when I was conceiving of the name, it's

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Speaker 2: there's a lot of political newsletters that are really geared

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Speaker 2: towards sort of an insidery audience, people who are working

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Speaker 2: in politics, the lobbyists, the staffers, all of those folks,

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Speaker 2: and obviously you know there's nothing that they're free to

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Speaker 2: read this newsletter as well.

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Speaker 3: But my goal really is to have.

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Speaker 2: Is to have this appeal to a broad audience, because

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Speaker 2: that's where I think is really the important work to

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Speaker 2: be done, and really underserved group of people.

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Speaker 1: So you have this incredible body of work, and it's

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Speaker 1: so in depth. Can you just take us inside. How

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Speaker 1: you approach the week, how do you settle on this

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Speaker 1: is what I'm going to cover this week? How much

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Speaker 1: time goes into each story? How many stories are you

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Speaker 1: developing at any one time, and what's the total footprint

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Speaker 1: of popular information? I mean, your output to me is

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Speaker 1: something that, Wow, he must have a giant newsroom behind

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Speaker 1: him and I suspect the actuality. You don't, but I

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Speaker 1: just you're very prolific, and you talk about necessary stories

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Speaker 1: across this broad front and I find them just universally interesting,

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Speaker 1: but they take us inside that story reselection process that hey,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna like, this is something I got to get

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Speaker 1: on and I'm gonna go deep on this and then

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Speaker 1: not not the not the names of course of sources,

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Speaker 1: but how do you how do you get into some

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Speaker 1: of this stuff as deeply as you do while publishing

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Speaker 1: as frequently as you do.

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Speaker 3: Well thanks for that question, Steve. I think the way

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Speaker 3: that it really works is that I'm working usually on

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Speaker 3: at least two tracks, most of the time three or four,

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Speaker 3: so I try.

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Speaker 2: I usually always have a few stories, and these are

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Speaker 2: stories that I can be working on for for weeks,

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Speaker 2: for months.

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Speaker 3: You know, I'm working on a story. I'll just kind

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Speaker 3: of give a little teaser forks.

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Speaker 2: I think I'm finally gonna be ready to put it

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Speaker 2: out next week on a member of Congress who just resigned,

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Speaker 2: and I had some video of him appearing side by

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Speaker 2: side with a lobbyist and sort of trying to understand

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Speaker 2: what it was he was doing and what the implications

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Speaker 2: of all that were and contacting people. And I've been

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Speaker 2: working on that for a few weeks now, you know,

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Speaker 2: making sure that I understood the got the story right.

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Speaker 2: At the same time, I published four times a week

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Speaker 2: at six thirty in the morning Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday,

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Speaker 2: and so I'm always I always hit that that those times,

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Speaker 2: and so as I'm working on those stories, I'm slotting

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Speaker 2: them into some of those these longer term, you know stories,

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Speaker 2: and some of them are these ones where I get

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Speaker 2: a tip or a piece of information through people that

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Speaker 2: I know, and but I also put my signal number

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Speaker 2: out there or my signal username now out there so

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Speaker 2: that people.

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Speaker 3: Can contact me. That was what was going on.

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Speaker 2: Of course, a lot in the beginning of this administration,

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Speaker 2: so many people in the federal government just desperate to

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Speaker 2: tell people what's going on?

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Speaker 1: Is that chilled? Has that changed?

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Speaker 3: It has?

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Speaker 2: And I think the reason why is I had a

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Speaker 2: lot of people in different agencies, you know, and I

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Speaker 2: produced a lot of reporting on the Social Security a

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Speaker 2: lot on omp different places where I had people who

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Speaker 2: were on the inside, and anytime something that they thought

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Speaker 2: was significant happit, they were reaching out to me. Most

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Speaker 2: of those people have now left. The people that I

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Speaker 2: was talking to, at least most of them have now left,

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Speaker 2: And I think the ones that are.

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Speaker 3: Still there, there's been a real.

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Speaker 2: Crackdown and people are much more hesitant to talk. And

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Speaker 2: I think my guess is that there's a lot more

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Speaker 2: surveillance going on. There's a lot more aggressive rooting out

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Speaker 2: of anyone who was trying to get information out there.

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Speaker 2: It still occurs, but it's nowhere ne the level that

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Speaker 2: it was. I think also part of it is sort

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Speaker 2: of this natural kind of I think the things that

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Speaker 2: were happening initially were such a shock. Maybe people aren't

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Speaker 2: even reaching out as much because what's going on doesn't

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Speaker 2: even shock them as much anymore.

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Speaker 3: But but yeah.

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Speaker 2: I have that and then and then you know, so

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Speaker 2: so some of these stories are are are days or weeks,

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Speaker 2: you know, and some of them are from tips. Some

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Speaker 2: of them are you know, research projects that I'm looking

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Speaker 2: at data or you know, there's filings coming out I'm understanding,

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Speaker 2: Like when the you know, the end of this month,

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Speaker 2: we've got a big filings, we'll understand and they'll finally

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Speaker 2: be disclosed. Who's contributed to all of the super PACs,

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Speaker 2: the main Senate super packs, the House super PACs. That'll

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Speaker 2: be pretty interesting to see what happens. But then other

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Speaker 2: times I don't have one of those ladies, so I'm

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Speaker 2: gonna go and find something that I can turn around

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Speaker 2: in six or seven hours.

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Speaker 3: I do have two full time staff people.

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Speaker 2: Who helped me out, so we can get you know,

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Speaker 2: between the three of us, we can get pretty in

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Speaker 2: depth in you know, six or seven hours, and and

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Speaker 2: and try to find something something new, talk to some folks,

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Speaker 2: look at some primary source information, and we'll get something

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Speaker 2: out the next day. So so that's that's the that's

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Speaker 2: those are sort of the two ways in which it occurs,

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Speaker 2: and they're all kind of all going on at once. Uh,

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Speaker 2: And it can be a bit of a challenge, but

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Speaker 2: it's something I really enjoyed doing, so it's I don't

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Speaker 2: I don't consider it a burden. It's just that's kind

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Speaker 2: of you know, my my way of life. And then

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Speaker 2: you get something out and you're thinking about the next idea.

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Speaker 1: How do you know when something's hit? What? What what

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Speaker 1: do you what do you measure success as right? You know,

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Speaker 1: at some level you've made the commitment to report it

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Speaker 1: you've done it with integrity, You've put it out there,

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Speaker 1: so there's pride in the work. But how do you

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Speaker 1: know when this is a piece of information that's really

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Speaker 1: landed with the with the public. And how often are

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Speaker 1: you seeing your original reporting then picked up in other

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Speaker 1: places and carried forward? And is their crossover of popular

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Speaker 1: information reporting into that corporate media space where they're sourcing

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Speaker 1: popular information right as the credible, independent investigative news agency

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Speaker 1: who has brought to light something that was not in

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Speaker 1: the public sphere prior.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that certainly does happen, and we try to put

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Speaker 2: all the information into each newsletter so that people can

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Speaker 2: feel confident of that. So when we're gonna if we

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Speaker 2: are going to report on a me that was produced

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Speaker 2: by the Social Security Agency, you know, a big one

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Speaker 2: that we put out was one where they were describing

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Speaker 2: the impacts of scaling back and really eliminating phone service

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Speaker 2: for a huge swath of beneficiaries, and it was really

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Speaker 2: described as potentially catastrophic. This was in an internal memo

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Speaker 2: that was widely picked up by a lot of media outlets.

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Speaker 2: I think that ultimately what I'm looking for is impact.

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Speaker 3: You know, I don't think this is just a.

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Speaker 2: Process where you're just you know, entertaining people or tried to,

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Speaker 2: you know, just find something that people enjoy reading. I

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Speaker 2: hope people do enjoy reading it. I hope people feel

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Speaker 2: like they're getting something out of it. But at the

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Speaker 2: end of the day, I want the work to have

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Speaker 2: an impact on the world. So a story that we

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Speaker 2: worked on earlier this year regarding the big fight about

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Speaker 2: the Supreme Court race in North Carolina, which was the

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Speaker 2: very last race of twenty twenty four to be decided.

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Speaker 3: The Republican candidate was trying to.

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Speaker 2: Throw out tens of thousands of ballots and actually convinced

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Speaker 2: the same Supreme Court of North Carolina that he was

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Speaker 2: ready for to throw out a bunch of ballots on

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Speaker 2: the grounds that they had never lived in North Carolina.

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Speaker 2: We actually found and even with a local partner that

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Speaker 2: we teamed up with, talked to many of these folks

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Speaker 2: and found that they had in fact lived in North Carolina,

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Speaker 2: some of them had never lived anywhere else. And it

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Speaker 2: was just, you know, as often these things are, a

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Speaker 2: data air that was then cited in both state and

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Speaker 2: federal court and ultimately in the decisions that you know,

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Speaker 2: settled that election. So that's not going to happen all

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Speaker 2: the time. But for me, that says, Okay, we dug

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Speaker 2: into it. We worked hard on this story, we got

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Speaker 2: out and substantiated the facts, and now it's had an impact.

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Speaker 2: Other things are going to have an impact over time.

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Speaker 2: You know, I think that that's it's not going to

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Speaker 2: be you put the story out, it appears in this lawsuit,

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Speaker 2: and then the lawsuit goes one way. It's going to

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Speaker 2: be something that occurs over months and years and hopefully

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Speaker 2: you help shape people's understanding of an important issue.

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Speaker 1: How do you approach this ice issue. I'll give you

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Speaker 1: a political analysis of this, which is that this perversely

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Speaker 1: named propagandist propaganda like named bill the big beautiful Bill,

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Speaker 1: so big, so incomprehensible, and there's so many things in

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Speaker 1: it that will harm p bull do real damage. We

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Speaker 1: could talk about it for many, many hours. There's one

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Speaker 1: big thing that didn't get through the bill, which as

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Speaker 1: a political learning is important, and that was the public

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Speaker 1: land sell off that Mike Lee tried to orchestrate, which

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Speaker 1: was an act of profound you know, Taylor Sheridan could

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Speaker 1: write thirty thirty series about the corruption in that public

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Speaker 1: land spin off. But what the what the bill will

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Speaker 1: be Berkeley, is that this created a national secret police

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Speaker 1: force that, if it was a military, would be the

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Speaker 1: fifteenth ranked military force in the world is which is

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Speaker 1: a very potent military And they got it through without

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Speaker 1: a lot of debate. And now all of a sudden,

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Speaker 1: and it struck me that there was an ICE official,

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Speaker 1: a sector chief, leaning against a armored vehicle and he said,

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Speaker 1: he doesn't work for Karen Bass, and the federal government

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Speaker 1: will do whatever it wants in Los Angeles. And you know,

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Speaker 1: I wish somebody to ask him a follow up question

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Speaker 1: because I wonder who it is that he believes that

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Speaker 1: he works for. Right if it would have been Tom

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Speaker 1: Homan or Christy nom or Donald Trump, I suspect his

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Speaker 1: answer would not have been, what I work for the people,

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Speaker 1: And of course he does. He works for us. So

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Speaker 1: you look at this guy, the sector chief, and he's

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Speaker 1: got his long rifle, he's got a ar it's got

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Speaker 1: a ammunition kit, you know, on the on the back

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Speaker 1: of it. You know, the whole the whole militarized picture.

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Speaker 1: And it makes you think, well, you know, who's the

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Speaker 1: enemy here. And so I'm fifty four and I've worked

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Speaker 1: in a White House, I've worked in the Congress, I've

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Speaker 1: worked for the governor of California. I've worked at politics

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Speaker 1: all around the world at every level, and there's never

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Speaker 1: been an official with the title sector chief that's mattered

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Speaker 1: in the a life of an American citizen. I wonder,

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Speaker 1: all of a sudden, how many powerful sector chiefs who

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Speaker 1: command armies we're going to have in the United States

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Speaker 1: posing on armored vehicles, announcing that the official who got

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Speaker 1: millions of votes in the second largest city in the

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Speaker 1: country and the fourth largest in North America doesn't matter,

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Speaker 1: and their officiousness and their arrogant So I think that

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Speaker 1: that story right in the in the change to society,

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Speaker 1: it will break and the chaos it's in an unleash.

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Speaker 1: How how do you intend to cover this? Right do

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Speaker 1: you have? Do you think is ice penetratable? Right? The

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Speaker 1: National Guard soldiers that are that are cooped up in

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Speaker 1: this coast playing performance, Like, how do you conceptualize the

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Speaker 1: the coverage of a story that at some level, if

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Speaker 1: we were sitting around talking about this five years ago,

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Speaker 1: six years ago, seven years ago, this would be a

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Speaker 1: crazy conversation.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think that looking at the bill,

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Speaker 2: the bill that passed, it did not pass because the

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Speaker 2: components of it were popular, or that the whole thing

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Speaker 2: put together was popular. It passed because they had the

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Speaker 2: power to pass it, and that's what they did. And

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Speaker 2: so I think that what happens next is going to

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Speaker 2: depend on people's understanding of how this plays out, how

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Speaker 2: it impacts society. I agree that this ICE issue, and

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Speaker 2: really the unfathomable amount of money that was given to

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Speaker 2: IC not just oh well, let's double their assets. So

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Speaker 2: this is twelve thirteen times. You know, they're what they

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Speaker 2: had to work with before in a lot of these categories.

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Speaker 3: So how do we.

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Speaker 2: Allow people to begin to understand how these resources are

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Speaker 2: being used. I don't think people want a secret police

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Speaker 2: that's roaming the country snatching up their neighbors. You know,

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Speaker 2: the reason why Trump was successful kind of demagoguing on

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Speaker 2: this is because he painted the idea that he was

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Speaker 2: going to be rounding up these horrible criminals. I think

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Speaker 2: they've already run out of folks to target. They're ripping

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Speaker 2: people out of these muties who've been there for decades.

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Speaker 3: No criminal history.

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Speaker 2: So for me, I'm thinking about, well, how can I

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Speaker 2: get into the source actually looking at this today. One

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Speaker 2: of the things I want to do, and I think

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Speaker 2: I'm going to have I think it's going to be

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Speaker 2: not too long, but probably a couple of months before

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Speaker 2: this happen, is every contract that ICE is going to

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Speaker 2: sign to spend this money, because they're not actually going

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Speaker 2: to be able to spend it internally themselves. They're going

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Speaker 2: to have to just outsource a lot of this because

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Speaker 2: they don't have the capacity to spend this much money.

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Speaker 2: Is public information that's listed on the government contracting database,

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Speaker 2: and so that's I think a pressure point because there's

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Speaker 2: going to be a lot of people, I think quite quick.

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Speaker 2: I mean there's a lot of people already who are

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Speaker 2: very upset. You know, Joe Rogan is very upset because

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Speaker 2: he didn't think there was any possibility to predict this.

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Speaker 2: But many people are very upset.

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Speaker 1: And and.

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Speaker 3: I think that allowing people to understand, well, what corporations

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Speaker 3: are going to be complicit in this, who are going

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Speaker 3: to be grabbing for this, you know, a piece of this,

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Speaker 3: these billions of dollars, that's something where I think I'm

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Speaker 3: going to add value because I don't think a lot

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Speaker 3: of other folks are going to be looking at that closely.

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Speaker 1: It is the private prison industry and area that is

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Speaker 1: of interest specifically to you or that you think about

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Speaker 1: as as top of mind as you follow the money

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Speaker 1: on this. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: In fact, we just did a story last week. This

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Speaker 2: was while all this other stuff was happening, you know,

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Speaker 2: the bill was passing all of that, there was a

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Speaker 2: very quiet story that the f CC had reversed a

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Speaker 2: rule it was put in place last year that would

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Speaker 2: prevent companies from charging incarcerated people these outrageous fees for

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Speaker 2: phone calls, you know, something like twelve dollars for a

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Speaker 2: fifteen minute phone call and a lot of these facilities

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Speaker 2: and there's really no reason. And so the question is, well,

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Speaker 2: why are they doing this? Because the companies that sell

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Speaker 2: these telecommunication service of prisons, it's not really at and T,

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Speaker 2: it's relatively small companies. They don't really even get a

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Speaker 2: lot of money to candidate, So why are they doing this?

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Speaker 2: Looking into it, the reason why these fees are so

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Speaker 2: high is because the people who operate the prisons, including Geogroup,

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Speaker 2: cour Civic, the big private companies, they get a kickback,

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Speaker 2: sometimes as much as fifty percent of all of the

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Speaker 2: revenue that these companies bring in and they get it

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Speaker 2: sent back to them as part of the contracts they sign.

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Speaker 2: So we now have that industry, which as you know,

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Speaker 2: is one of the top industries as far as you know,

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Speaker 2: donating money to the Trump super packs, donating money to

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Speaker 2: the inauguration. Just really one of the industries that's gone

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Speaker 2: all that really went all in on Trump. And now

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Speaker 2: you have the FCC for really no reason. Actually the

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Speaker 2: chairman of the FCC, Brendan Carr, who's very conservative, voted

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Speaker 2: for this rule last year because no one's really for this,

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Speaker 2: even if you you know, I don't think anyone is

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Speaker 2: pro criminal, but nobody thinks they should have to pay

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Speaker 2: fifteen dollars to talk to their daughter or their mother

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Speaker 2: for a few minutes when they have the opportunity to.

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Speaker 3: Voted for it.

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Speaker 2: Now it's been a sudden reversal, and I think it's

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Speaker 2: that influence of the private prison industry, and so yes,

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Speaker 2: I think they're highly influential. I think there's very little

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Speaker 2: accountability for how they operate, and it's something that I'm

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Speaker 2: going to have a, you know, a very close eye on.

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Speaker 2: I think they're probably going to be one of the

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Speaker 2: primary beneficiaries of all of this, all this money.

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Speaker 1: When when you think about I had, I had this.

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Speaker 1: I had an experience that was among the most astonishing

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Speaker 1: of my life in this conversation, but it was at Auschwitz.

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Speaker 1: And you know, the first time I went to Auschwitz,

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Speaker 1: it was it was part of the US delegation for

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Speaker 1: the sixtieth anniversary of the of the liberation and Eli

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Speaker 1: Bezel was on that trip and I spent a fair

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Speaker 1: amount of time with him, which was which was an

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Speaker 1: extraordinary experience. And then I went back last last March

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Speaker 1: and I went on a tour with the head guide.

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Speaker 1: His name is Paul Powell, and he was a journalist

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Speaker 1: who left a radio news job to become teacher educator

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Speaker 1: guide there and he took Elon Musk around and I

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Speaker 1: asked him, I said, well, he didn't make an impression

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Speaker 1: at all, and he said, I'm afraid not. And that

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Speaker 1: was early in the day out on this tour. And so,

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Speaker 1: you know, hat a couple of takeaways from the from

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Speaker 1: the experience. But you know, one of them is is

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Speaker 1: that as you comprehend the place, it was that even

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Speaker 1: the people like el like Elise who survived Auschwitz really

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Speaker 1: didn't fully experience Auschwitz, in that the only people who

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Speaker 1: did were the ones who walked down the steps into

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Speaker 1: the showers, into the gas sin, into the ovens. Right,

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Speaker 1: and there was no surviving that, right. Nobody came back

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Speaker 1: from that, nobody, nobody survived that. And so we're in

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Speaker 1: this corner of the camp and he tells me this

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Speaker 1: story about what he describes as the Polish Clint Eastwood

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Speaker 1: who escapes from Auschwitz. They kill a couple of SS

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Speaker 1: guards and we're sitting off in this corner and he says,

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Speaker 1: you know, people will say to me things like, well,

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Speaker 1: is it true that even the birds don't fly over Auschwitz?

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Speaker 1: And he and he and he points out a stork

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Speaker 1: that is taking off from one of the ponds where

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Speaker 1: the SS dumped the ashes of the of the murder Jews,

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Speaker 1: and he says, look, there's a stork taking off. And

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Speaker 1: he points to a building and he says, do you

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Speaker 1: know what type of building that is? And I said,

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Speaker 1: that's a water treatment facility and he says that's correct,

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Speaker 1: and he goes, did you know that Auschwitz opened up late?

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Speaker 1: And I said I didn't know that. And he said

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Speaker 1: they couldn't get the permits for the water treatment, for

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Speaker 1: the waste sewage plan, and for the fire codes and

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Speaker 1: the barracks, and he goes, yeah, he goes the SS

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Speaker 1: was not omnipodent in Germany. It was an agency of

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Speaker 1: the government. It was powerful, it was corrupt. But the

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Speaker 1: Germans were a highly organized bureaucratic society needed the stamp.

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Speaker 1: And when the SS announced that the plan was to

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Speaker 1: dump the waste of the one hundred thousand prisoners in

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Speaker 1: the prison designed in the woods to hold one hundred

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Speaker 1: thousand people, the German bureaucrat didn't say, why are we

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Speaker 1: building a prison for one hundred thousand people in the

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Speaker 1: woods here in Poland? Where are you dumping the waste

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Speaker 1: for the one hundred thousand people when they sat in

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Speaker 1: the river and there were Germans down river? He said nine.

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Speaker 1: And so the killing gets off to a late start. Now,

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Speaker 1: Schwitz and these buildings are built to last, and we're

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Speaker 1: sitting there and he pulls out of his pocket a

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Speaker 1: piece of the paper and he goes, hey, he goes,

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Speaker 1: this is the permit, and he goes, that's the stamp

436
00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:30,000
Speaker 1: that opened Auschwitz. And so it didn't It didn't open

437
00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:33,600
Speaker 1: with a bullet to the head. It opened with a

438
00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:39,880
Speaker 1: stamp from a water bureaucrat and as this concentration camp,

439
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:43,120
Speaker 1: and it is a concentration camp. And I'll debate anyone

440
00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:47,400
Speaker 1: till the end times right about that. And the definition

441
00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:52,720
Speaker 1: of what a concentration camp is in Florida is that

442
00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:56,640
Speaker 1: in the debate we had as a society in the

443
00:29:56,680 --> 00:29:59,920
Speaker 1: aftermath of World War II, where people look back and say,

444
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:02,800
Speaker 1: what did we know about the Holocaust and the camps

445
00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:04,720
Speaker 1: and what could have been done? Could it have been

446
00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:07,920
Speaker 1: bombed the rail lines? And of course the leaders of

447
00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:14,040
Speaker 1: the Allied countries fundamentally said, well, in order to bring

448
00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:16,680
Speaker 1: the killing to an end, the abuses to an end,

449
00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:19,520
Speaker 1: we win the war. So anything that diverts us from

450
00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:22,920
Speaker 1: winning the war prolongs the suffering of the Jews and

451
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:26,240
Speaker 1: the camp. And once you're in that position, there's an

452
00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:31,000
Speaker 1: elemental pragmatism that gets involved. But at the beginning, right now,

453
00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:34,600
Speaker 1: as the camp is coming to be, as it's coming

454
00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:37,800
Speaker 1: to be formed, and they have a budget of forty

455
00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:41,200
Speaker 1: five billion dollars to construct these camps, and put that

456
00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:45,280
Speaker 1: in perspective, the top line NFL stadiums, the one in

457
00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:49,120
Speaker 1: Vegas and the one in La the Sofi Stadium, where

458
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:52,400
Speaker 1: when you walk into it you say, holy shit. Those

459
00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:56,280
Speaker 1: two stadiums cost two billion dollars each. So I don't

460
00:30:56,320 --> 00:31:00,400
Speaker 1: know what forty five billion dollars worth of these detention camps,

461
00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:05,720
Speaker 1: concentration camps look like across the United States. And I

462
00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:08,280
Speaker 1: just like, how do you think about that as an

463
00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:13,600
Speaker 1: issue in covering that as a as a society issue,

464
00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:18,160
Speaker 1: Because at some level to me, even talking about this

465
00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:22,920
Speaker 1: in those terms like as I feel totally confident at

466
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:27,520
Speaker 1: an honesty level, at an integrity level, right at at

467
00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:30,960
Speaker 1: a truthfulness level about we have to talk about this.

468
00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:35,120
Speaker 1: But at the same time, I'm like, am I crazy?

469
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:39,800
Speaker 1: And the truth is I'm not crazy? So like, how

470
00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:44,960
Speaker 1: how do we talk about the coverage of this Budge

471
00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:49,960
Speaker 1: day burgeoning forty five billion dollars of concentration camp building

472
00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:51,160
Speaker 1: out across the country.

473
00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:54,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think I don't think you're crazy

474
00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:56,479
Speaker 2: bringing that up. And I think one of the things

475
00:31:56,560 --> 00:32:03,959
Speaker 2: that people forget is that we really the the fundamental

476
00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:08,680
Speaker 2: legal principle that we're now you know, the Trump administration

477
00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:12,120
Speaker 2: is now fighting against by setting up you know, these

478
00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:15,760
Speaker 2: concentration camps, These the tension facilities. You know, we've seen

479
00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:19,360
Speaker 2: one get created in Florida that I think is probably

480
00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:23,000
Speaker 2: the you know, maybe maybe it's the blueprint for for

481
00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:28,080
Speaker 2: the others. UH is that there was a concern that

482
00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:32,080
Speaker 2: the United States did not do enough to take in

483
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:39,120
Speaker 2: Jews that were threatened in Germany and elsewhere and provide

484
00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:42,400
Speaker 2: them with asylum, provide them with refuge.

485
00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:46,040
Speaker 3: And that's why we passed a law in the.

486
00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:51,160
Speaker 2: United States where we do not simply turn away anyone

487
00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:56,000
Speaker 2: who shows up in the country without you know, all

488
00:32:56,080 --> 00:32:59,360
Speaker 2: of their paperwork. We have a process in which they

489
00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:03,680
Speaker 2: are able to make a case that they would be

490
00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:08,719
Speaker 2: subject to persecution if they were to return home, and

491
00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:12,080
Speaker 2: if they can prove that they can stay here. You know,

492
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:17,720
Speaker 2: that's something we decided after we saw what happened in

493
00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:20,520
Speaker 2: World War Two and decided that we were not going

494
00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:25,040
Speaker 2: to do so little again as far as taking people in.

495
00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:30,120
Speaker 3: So now we have completely.

496
00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:34,800
Speaker 2: Abandoned that and we're going really back into the opposite

497
00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:41,560
Speaker 2: into the opposite way. So I think understanding the legal

498
00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:47,120
Speaker 2: history and really the fundamental principles that are behind our

499
00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:51,640
Speaker 2: immigration laws is important. That's not to say that we

500
00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:55,440
Speaker 2: you know that twenty twenty five is the same as

501
00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:58,880
Speaker 2: nineteen sixty five or nineteen forty five, and that we

502
00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:06,880
Speaker 2: shouldn't make adjustments. But there was a time when Democrats

503
00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:11,080
Speaker 2: and Republicans understood that these were human beings that deserve

504
00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:15,920
Speaker 2: compassion and that shouldn't be demaized, you know. So hopefully

505
00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:19,440
Speaker 2: we can find a way back to this. I think

506
00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:22,279
Speaker 2: what we're in, what we're what we're dealing with right now,

507
00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:27,040
Speaker 2: is an experiment to see how far this can be pushed.

508
00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:33,799
Speaker 2: And that's it's it's it's quite distressing.

509
00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:35,560
Speaker 3: It's quite distressing.

510
00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:40,520
Speaker 2: But what keeps me going and wanting to understand as

511
00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:42,520
Speaker 2: much as I can about it and then share that

512
00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:45,400
Speaker 2: with the people, you know, who read my newsletter and

513
00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:49,200
Speaker 2: and get the information I put out elsewhere, is that

514
00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:55,560
Speaker 2: I've also seen how these things can shift rapidly back

515
00:34:55,600 --> 00:35:00,640
Speaker 2: and forth, and sometimes you sometimes it takes unfortunately a

516
00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:05,200
Speaker 2: severe overreach in order to provoke that kind of shift

517
00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:09,439
Speaker 2: backwards too. So I think that's what's you know, that's

518
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:11,560
Speaker 2: what's confronting us here is are we going to go

519
00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:14,800
Speaker 2: deeper and deeper and deeper into the into the darkness

520
00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:21,640
Speaker 2: here as we you know, round up, folks, or are

521
00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:23,279
Speaker 2: is there going to be a reality check.

522
00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:27,640
Speaker 1: You know, there's a there's a reason that the manager

523
00:35:27,719 --> 00:35:33,080
Speaker 1: of the Yankees gets more media coverage than the Triple

524
00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:36,719
Speaker 1: A team, and Columbus that gets more coverage than the

525
00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:41,440
Speaker 1: Double A manager, the single A manager. So when you

526
00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:45,080
Speaker 1: when you think about people in the in the government

527
00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:50,360
Speaker 1: and in the in the hierarchy, we cover the people

528
00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:53,239
Speaker 1: at the top of the chain, the people that have

529
00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:58,759
Speaker 1: sentate confirmed jobs, the secretaries of defense and State and

530
00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:02,680
Speaker 1: so on and so forth. But the commandant, right the

531
00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:07,799
Speaker 1: warden of this camp in Florida, is that an individual

532
00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:14,359
Speaker 1: who's worthy of tough and unrelenting media scrutiny along with say,

533
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:20,800
Speaker 1: for example, the sector chief in Los Angeles who's leaned

534
00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:25,600
Speaker 1: against the armored vehicle saying we're not we're not leaving

535
00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:29,919
Speaker 1: as the city is held under a siege by its

536
00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:34,000
Speaker 1: federal government. Is that I think? I think so. Is

537
00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:37,840
Speaker 1: that somebody that is that should be covered relentlessly?

538
00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:40,919
Speaker 3: I think so. And I think that.

539
00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:46,800
Speaker 2: You know, there's there's a real effort to try to

540
00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:51,440
Speaker 2: intimidate people against that kind of coverage. Say that you know,

541
00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:54,919
Speaker 2: this is the media trying to docs you know this

542
00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:58,680
Speaker 2: person or you know trying to subject them to harm.

543
00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:01,040
Speaker 2: You know, I'm not going to print, you know, their

544
00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:04,440
Speaker 2: home address or something like that. I'm not going to

545
00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:06,239
Speaker 2: talk about you know, I'm not going to you know,

546
00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:08,759
Speaker 2: hand out their phone number so people can call them.

547
00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:13,040
Speaker 2: But I think letting people understand who they are, what

548
00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:15,319
Speaker 2: their background is, how are they acting.

549
00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:16,080
Speaker 3: These are people.

550
00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:19,600
Speaker 2: All of these positions are positions where someone's supposed to

551
00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:21,960
Speaker 2: be acting in the public trust. They're supposed to be

552
00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:27,240
Speaker 2: acting in accordance with their local laws, the state laws,

553
00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:32,879
Speaker 2: federal laws, the Constitution. So all of that is fair

554
00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:35,400
Speaker 2: game because ultimately, you know, it's not going to be

555
00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:39,359
Speaker 2: Donald Trump that is rounding all the people up. He's

556
00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:41,279
Speaker 2: not going to be the one doing it. So if

557
00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:43,960
Speaker 2: you limit your coverage just to the very top, you're

558
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:50,120
Speaker 2: going to miss a lot of the story. I think

559
00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:55,719
Speaker 2: that it's also it also just is such a limiting

560
00:37:56,200 --> 00:38:00,360
Speaker 2: lens to look at it, because if you only and

561
00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:02,360
Speaker 2: this is I try to think about this, you know,

562
00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:04,160
Speaker 2: as I'm thinking about, how do you plan out your

563
00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:07,520
Speaker 2: week if if every story I'm writing is just Donald

564
00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:10,319
Speaker 2: Trump said this and that's not true. You know, I

565
00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:13,160
Speaker 2: could just write that story every day, But I don't

566
00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:15,360
Speaker 2: think people would, and sometimes you need to write that

567
00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:18,319
Speaker 2: story because it's an important story to write that particular day.

568
00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:22,239
Speaker 2: But I don't think that's gonna get people anywhere that

569
00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:25,960
Speaker 2: they aren't where they aren't already. People need to understand

570
00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:28,920
Speaker 2: the full spectrum of how of how all of this works,

571
00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:32,919
Speaker 2: and and that's what I think creates a greater level

572
00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:37,399
Speaker 2: of understanding and a greater level of accountability because there

573
00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:41,520
Speaker 2: right now, it's probably it's probably past date to hold

574
00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:44,160
Speaker 2: Trump accountable for anything, but there's a lot of other

575
00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:48,080
Speaker 2: people who's gonna need to work by his side who

576
00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:51,399
Speaker 2: still can be held accountable. And I think that's that's

577
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:53,840
Speaker 2: a really important piece of business.

578
00:38:55,560 --> 00:38:59,000
Speaker 1: One of the things that I find most curious about

579
00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:03,799
Speaker 1: all of this, and I've had this conversation privately, but

580
00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:09,840
Speaker 1: also on the warning, is the degree to which you

581
00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:15,120
Speaker 1: look at the arrogance of the people involved in this,

582
00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:21,920
Speaker 1: and there's no semblance of restraint or notion of well,

583
00:39:22,120 --> 00:39:26,960
Speaker 1: we may be voted out and hold before congressional committees

584
00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:31,719
Speaker 1: two years from now. It's as if they are deluded

585
00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:37,120
Speaker 1: into believing that Trump's deaf teflon right covers all of them.

586
00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:43,680
Speaker 1: And I know it is their arrogance in the moment, right,

587
00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:47,640
Speaker 1: And that's the craziness. And it's not the fact that right,

588
00:39:47,719 --> 00:39:51,200
Speaker 1: they know something that I don't know, right, and right

589
00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:55,120
Speaker 1: they've got in the plan that it's all over and

590
00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:58,680
Speaker 1: that it's entirely the arrogance. But do you ever, do

591
00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:02,840
Speaker 1: you ever sit there in scratch your head when you

592
00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:09,960
Speaker 1: look at the performances of some of the spokespeople, the disrespect,

593
00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:15,560
Speaker 1: the factlessness, the just the lying, the yelling, the you know,

594
00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:20,440
Speaker 1: the the preening, the performance of a Carolyn Levitt. I mean,

595
00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:26,040
Speaker 1: you know, I know my audience is skewing my age

596
00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:28,200
Speaker 1: and up right, you know, I know, but I hope

597
00:40:28,239 --> 00:40:31,120
Speaker 1: we have some young people on here, and you know

598
00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:34,640
Speaker 1: they're just not old enough to remember Bagdad Bob Right,

599
00:40:34,680 --> 00:40:39,520
Speaker 1: who was Saddam hussein spokesperson, right and was a caricature

600
00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:44,440
Speaker 1: right of dishonesty right literally at the airport saying the

601
00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:48,560
Speaker 1: Americans will never take the airport as the tanks are

602
00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:52,200
Speaker 1: rolling behind him. I mean, she, Carolyn Levitt, is that

603
00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:56,320
Speaker 1: level of disingenuousness and totally crazy. And you know, and

604
00:40:56,520 --> 00:41:00,520
Speaker 1: and and you know, fairness to Bagdad Bob Right, Saddam

605
00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:02,880
Speaker 1: Husain is going to shoot him probably right if he

606
00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:05,440
Speaker 1: didn't say like what he needed to say, right, And

607
00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:08,239
Speaker 1: you know Trump's not going to shoot Carolyn Levitt, I

608
00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:13,520
Speaker 1: don't think. But what I mean, well, do you ever

609
00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:16,200
Speaker 1: scratch your head and think about these people like it

610
00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:19,279
Speaker 1: seems like they haven't imagined that they're about to be

611
00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:22,000
Speaker 1: voted out of here, right, you know, at least in

612
00:41:22,080 --> 00:41:25,160
Speaker 1: the Congress in two years like that there's no possibility

613
00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:26,840
Speaker 1: of it? Or is that just me?

614
00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:32,719
Speaker 2: Yeah? I mean I think for I think it's for

615
00:41:33,120 --> 00:41:35,400
Speaker 2: It definitely takes a certain kind of person to be

616
00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:38,640
Speaker 2: willing to do that, that's for sure. I think somebody

617
00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:41,680
Speaker 2: like Gerrold Levitt, Like, when I think about it, I

618
00:41:41,719 --> 00:41:45,120
Speaker 2: think she'll probably get us softly at lead somewhere. I

619
00:41:45,120 --> 00:41:47,120
Speaker 2: could see her getting set up, you know, on a

620
00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:51,520
Speaker 2: nice show on Newsmax or something like that, and it'll

621
00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:55,440
Speaker 2: probably be fine. She may not ever have to confront,

622
00:41:55,719 --> 00:41:59,920
Speaker 2: you know, what she's been involved with. The Thing that

623
00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:07,560
Speaker 2: I just can't quite understand are these institutions and and

624
00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:11,319
Speaker 2: people who are definitely going to be around at a

625
00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:13,520
Speaker 2: time where you know, you'd have to think there's at

626
00:42:13,640 --> 00:42:16,440
Speaker 2: least a fair possibility that it's going to be a

627
00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:20,399
Speaker 2: much different, uh political environment. You know, you look at

628
00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:26,080
Speaker 2: the Washington Post, which you know has has really taken

629
00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:30,719
Speaker 2: decades of of work, you know, establishing itself as you know,

630
00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:35,040
Speaker 2: one of the premier journalistic outlets, and kind of flushed

631
00:42:35,080 --> 00:42:37,800
Speaker 2: a lot of it, you know, down the drain in

632
00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:42,800
Speaker 2: in a few months here in an effort to appease Trump.

633
00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:45,120
Speaker 2: I saw that, you know, just before we're getting on here,

634
00:42:45,160 --> 00:42:48,360
Speaker 2: I saw that there. You know, they sign out a

635
00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:51,160
Speaker 2: letter to all their staff talking about how you know,

636
00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:54,080
Speaker 2: this is a new era they're they're going to read.

637
00:42:54,080 --> 00:42:56,840
Speaker 2: They've revamped their opinion page, the opinion page that you

638
00:42:56,880 --> 00:43:00,640
Speaker 2: know endorsed Pambondi for Attorney General, and you know, is

639
00:43:00,680 --> 00:43:04,000
Speaker 2: doing everything they can to kind of cozy up to Trump.

640
00:43:04,040 --> 00:43:06,440
Speaker 3: And if you're not, you know, if you're if you don't,

641
00:43:07,320 --> 00:43:07,760
Speaker 3: if you're.

642
00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:10,040
Speaker 2: Not on board with all of this, you know, we're

643
00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:13,439
Speaker 2: we're happy to accept your your resignation, and we'll give

644
00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:18,040
Speaker 2: you some you know, uh severts, a severts package.

645
00:43:19,160 --> 00:43:20,000
Speaker 3: They are going to.

646
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:22,839
Speaker 2: Be around when they're going to have to have credibility

647
00:43:22,880 --> 00:43:24,600
Speaker 2: with a variety of audiences.

648
00:43:24,640 --> 00:43:25,239
Speaker 3: Trump is not.

649
00:43:25,200 --> 00:43:28,200
Speaker 1: Gonna you think, do you think that they have credibility

650
00:43:28,239 --> 00:43:29,759
Speaker 1: as an institution.

651
00:43:30,120 --> 00:43:32,160
Speaker 3: Not anymore, not anymore.

652
00:43:32,200 --> 00:43:36,200
Speaker 2: I mean, I think they've I think that they're they're

653
00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:39,640
Speaker 2: certainly journalists there that I respect to continue to do

654
00:43:39,719 --> 00:43:42,640
Speaker 2: great work kind of in spite of it, you know,

655
00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:45,640
Speaker 2: so nothing to do with the institution anymore. But I

656
00:43:45,719 --> 00:43:49,360
Speaker 2: think the readers, they've lost hundreds of thousands of readers.

657
00:43:49,400 --> 00:43:54,200
Speaker 2: They're they're searching for a reader that doesn't really exist.

658
00:43:55,960 --> 00:44:03,200
Speaker 2: But it's clear that the priory is to create good

659
00:44:03,239 --> 00:44:06,560
Speaker 2: feelings within one person, which is Donald Trump, and that

660
00:44:06,600 --> 00:44:11,279
Speaker 2: has worked. You know, Donald Trump has praised Jeff Bezos

661
00:44:11,320 --> 00:44:13,840
Speaker 2: and what Jeff Bezos has done at the Post publicly.

662
00:44:15,080 --> 00:44:17,200
Speaker 2: Jeff Bezos said that's what he was going to do,

663
00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:19,480
Speaker 2: you know, that's what he set out to do once

664
00:44:19,520 --> 00:44:23,520
Speaker 2: Trump got elected. And it's working. But my, my, my,

665
00:44:23,719 --> 00:44:25,560
Speaker 2: The thing that I don't understand is that's going to

666
00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:29,319
Speaker 2: work for a few years and then we're going to

667
00:44:29,719 --> 00:44:31,680
Speaker 2: at some point move on to something else where we

668
00:44:31,719 --> 00:44:34,040
Speaker 2: at least we might and where is that going to

669
00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:40,799
Speaker 2: going to leave him? And And that's really what I

670
00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:44,279
Speaker 2: don't understand. These are these are supposed to be some

671
00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:48,600
Speaker 2: of the most sophisticated UH people in the world, these

672
00:44:48,719 --> 00:44:53,040
Speaker 2: kind of you know, capitalists, savants or whatever you want

673
00:44:53,080 --> 00:44:54,520
Speaker 2: to whatever you want to call them. It seems like

674
00:44:54,680 --> 00:44:56,400
Speaker 2: if I can think of it, that they probably can

675
00:44:56,480 --> 00:44:59,120
Speaker 2: also think of this, but for some reason they.

676
00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:03,400
Speaker 3: Do not here or they or they're not thinking about it.

677
00:45:04,560 --> 00:45:09,640
Speaker 1: Well, right from a from the Bezos perspective, right, you know,

678
00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:15,040
Speaker 1: you have to let's unpack this. So Jeff Bezos says, well,

679
00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:19,880
Speaker 1: this is what the consumer demands, this is what the

680
00:45:20,040 --> 00:45:24,319
Speaker 1: audience needs to have in the way of news, and

681
00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:29,320
Speaker 1: all of the changes to the editorial pages right reflect

682
00:45:29,360 --> 00:45:33,359
Speaker 1: this sensibility. And this is a guy who just threw

683
00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:37,320
Speaker 1: the wedding that he threw, right, So Jeff Bezos throws

684
00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:43,400
Speaker 1: that wedding, and he thinks that the people of the

685
00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:47,719
Speaker 1: world care about this, as opposed to being appalled by it. Right,

686
00:45:47,800 --> 00:45:53,640
Speaker 1: So he lives in a total bubble of surreality and delusion.

687
00:45:53,960 --> 00:45:57,400
Speaker 1: But you know, he's certainly not alone. I mean, I

688
00:45:57,440 --> 00:46:02,160
Speaker 1: don't necessarily think he's any more delusional than David zaslov

689
00:46:02,280 --> 00:46:06,719
Speaker 1: for example, Right, at some level, right, David Zasloff is

690
00:46:06,760 --> 00:46:10,840
Speaker 1: even more offensive given that right, it's a failing public

691
00:46:10,920 --> 00:46:14,600
Speaker 1: company and he's managed to right figure out how to

692
00:46:14,680 --> 00:46:17,960
Speaker 1: rig a theft of fifty two million dollars of compensation

693
00:46:18,239 --> 00:46:22,239
Speaker 1: right from the shareholders. But it's just also corrupt, and

694
00:46:23,200 --> 00:46:26,000
Speaker 1: you know, and I wanted to ask you about that,

695
00:46:26,200 --> 00:46:29,760
Speaker 1: which is what motivates you to kind of chase down

696
00:46:29,840 --> 00:46:35,080
Speaker 1: the corruption in an era that is just so unfathomably

697
00:46:35,640 --> 00:46:39,400
Speaker 1: corrupt and so fast. I mean, when I was in

698
00:46:39,480 --> 00:46:45,480
Speaker 1: the White House, I had a sci security clearance, and

699
00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:49,879
Speaker 1: I had I had a political job, you know, and

700
00:46:50,080 --> 00:46:53,319
Speaker 1: I dealt with the press, and so I was terrified

701
00:46:53,560 --> 00:46:57,359
Speaker 1: at all times of breaking the Hatch Act, violating the

702
00:46:57,400 --> 00:47:01,000
Speaker 1: Hatch Act, which was a real thing if you worked

703
00:47:01,000 --> 00:47:04,399
Speaker 1: in the Bush or the Obama administrations, until Kelly Ann

704
00:47:04,520 --> 00:47:09,239
Speaker 1: disregarded it, and terrified of making a mistake with the

705
00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:12,680
Speaker 1: piece of classified information. And the truth is right, you

706
00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:15,960
Speaker 1: see these classified briefings and write what was in the

707
00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:19,400
Speaker 1: briefing was on the front page of the New York Times.

708
00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:22,880
Speaker 1: Some reporter asked you a question about a story on

709
00:47:22,920 --> 00:47:24,880
Speaker 1: the front page of the New York Times after you

710
00:47:24,920 --> 00:47:28,160
Speaker 1: saw the classified briefing in the morning. Right, You're in

711
00:47:28,200 --> 00:47:34,000
Speaker 1: a difficult position. So I never talked about any of that, right,

712
00:47:34,239 --> 00:47:37,480
Speaker 1: just never wanted to talk about any of that, any

713
00:47:37,520 --> 00:47:43,200
Speaker 1: of that stuff, but the corruption, the liing that this honesty,

714
00:47:43,400 --> 00:47:48,920
Speaker 1: like what keeps you motivated to keep chasing it as

715
00:47:48,960 --> 00:47:53,640
Speaker 1: opposed to feeling defeated and drowned by it because the

716
00:47:54,520 --> 00:47:58,600
Speaker 1: waters are rising everywhere with it. Right, it's so much

717
00:47:58,840 --> 00:48:02,400
Speaker 1: worse and it was last year, which was worse than

718
00:48:02,440 --> 00:48:05,000
Speaker 1: it was the year before, which was worse than it

719
00:48:05,080 --> 00:48:08,799
Speaker 1: was the year before. In this titanic tidal wave of

720
00:48:09,080 --> 00:48:13,800
Speaker 1: epic corruption. Yeah, it's it is stunning.

721
00:48:14,120 --> 00:48:17,760
Speaker 2: I mean, I think just the not not that Trump

722
00:48:17,840 --> 00:48:21,600
Speaker 2: is using the presidency to you know, profit before himself.

723
00:48:21,640 --> 00:48:24,839
Speaker 2: I mean that I think everyone expected, but just the

724
00:48:24,960 --> 00:48:32,320
Speaker 2: brazenness that's going on. I think I stay motivated because

725
00:48:33,000 --> 00:48:38,960
Speaker 2: I'm trying to look at the long term view of this.

726
00:48:40,480 --> 00:48:43,560
Speaker 2: One of the things that is demotivating is you are

727
00:48:43,600 --> 00:48:47,960
Speaker 2: not going to shame this group of people into changing

728
00:48:48,719 --> 00:48:49,920
Speaker 2: what they're doing.

729
00:48:50,400 --> 00:48:51,640
Speaker 3: They're going to keep doing it.

730
00:48:51,680 --> 00:48:53,400
Speaker 2: So you got to have to put that that because

731
00:48:53,400 --> 00:48:55,879
Speaker 2: that's usually one of the one of the nice things

732
00:48:55,880 --> 00:48:58,879
Speaker 2: about exposing something that's corrupt is that you know, if

733
00:48:58,920 --> 00:49:00,800
Speaker 2: you expose it, well then they might stop.

734
00:49:01,239 --> 00:49:02,360
Speaker 3: That's not going to happen.

735
00:49:02,880 --> 00:49:06,400
Speaker 1: But I do find that to be a thread in

736
00:49:06,480 --> 00:49:09,880
Speaker 1: the coverage though of him, then it holds out a

737
00:49:09,920 --> 00:49:13,000
Speaker 1: possibility that it could stop, and may stop. He may

738
00:49:13,080 --> 00:49:15,680
Speaker 1: do the right thing today, because I see, I think

739
00:49:15,719 --> 00:49:18,799
Speaker 1: that's endemic to like ninety percent of the media coverage.

740
00:49:19,360 --> 00:49:20,799
Speaker 1: And I don't mean to interrupt you.

741
00:49:21,160 --> 00:49:23,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, I mean I think I do think that

742
00:49:23,600 --> 00:49:27,520
Speaker 2: there's I do think that there's a normality about the

743
00:49:27,560 --> 00:49:33,320
Speaker 2: coverage that doesn't reflect the abnormality of the behavior.

744
00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:35,960
Speaker 3: So I think that that is said, Yes, I agree

745
00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:36,640
Speaker 3: with that.

746
00:49:36,719 --> 00:49:38,920
Speaker 1: And your your point is like, it's they're they're the

747
00:49:38,960 --> 00:49:41,760
Speaker 1: good Fellow's crew, and the good Fellow's crew is gonna

748
00:49:41,800 --> 00:49:45,279
Speaker 1: steal shit, right, yeah, and so Donald Trump isn't going

749
00:49:45,360 --> 00:49:49,800
Speaker 1: to stop doing what he's doing, and so so go ahead.

750
00:49:49,840 --> 00:49:51,959
Speaker 3: I didn't mean yeah, but I was gonna say that.

751
00:49:52,480 --> 00:49:56,000
Speaker 2: I think what they are the goal of this is

752
00:49:56,040 --> 00:49:59,440
Speaker 2: just to push ahead and push ahead in two exhaust

753
00:49:59,719 --> 00:50:03,839
Speaker 2: people bull into kind of throwing up their hands, and

754
00:50:04,040 --> 00:50:06,840
Speaker 2: to a certain extent it's worky. But I want to

755
00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:10,359
Speaker 2: try to be a counterbalance of that. So we spent

756
00:50:10,480 --> 00:50:13,960
Speaker 2: a long time and written several articles about, you know,

757
00:50:15,239 --> 00:50:21,520
Speaker 2: about Jerry Kushner and this investment fund that he set up,

758
00:50:21,600 --> 00:50:24,960
Speaker 2: which is mostly money from Saudi Arabia and other countries,

759
00:50:25,600 --> 00:50:29,160
Speaker 2: and how he's now funneled that. Now, Jerry Kusher has

760
00:50:29,239 --> 00:50:32,600
Speaker 2: never been in private equity, has never done anything about this.

761
00:50:32,680 --> 00:50:37,080
Speaker 2: In fact, his primary experience was nearly bankrupting his family business,

762
00:50:37,120 --> 00:50:40,839
Speaker 2: which he inherited and got bailed out of that, so

763
00:50:41,239 --> 00:50:43,359
Speaker 2: no one would ever give him money. And in fact,

764
00:50:43,400 --> 00:50:47,600
Speaker 2: the independent board in Saudi Arabia that decided that decides

765
00:50:47,640 --> 00:50:50,479
Speaker 2: to do this said, this is a ridiculous thing where

766
00:50:50,480 --> 00:50:52,560
Speaker 2: it gets it at only the crowd prints, you know,

767
00:50:52,719 --> 00:50:56,640
Speaker 2: overruled them. But then you have him now funneling the money.

768
00:50:56,680 --> 00:51:00,359
Speaker 2: He's now acting as a funnel and they're building you know,

769
00:51:00,520 --> 00:51:03,520
Speaker 2: new Trump towers in the Middle East and in Europe.

770
00:51:03,960 --> 00:51:07,040
Speaker 2: And so the money is going directly from Saudi Arabia

771
00:51:07,160 --> 00:51:11,560
Speaker 2: into Jared Kushner's you know, Affinity Partners. He takes his

772
00:51:12,280 --> 00:51:14,279
Speaker 2: management fee and all of the other cuts, and he's

773
00:51:14,320 --> 00:51:19,120
Speaker 2: then giving it to essentially his father, the Laudadeld Trump

774
00:51:19,120 --> 00:51:20,880
Speaker 2: and the rest of the Trump sons.

775
00:51:22,000 --> 00:51:23,640
Speaker 3: It's gotten very little coverage.

776
00:51:24,320 --> 00:51:30,920
Speaker 2: I think is probably the most brazenly corrupt scheme in

777
00:51:31,120 --> 00:51:34,920
Speaker 2: presidential history, just just taking money from before envelopment and

778
00:51:35,040 --> 00:51:38,200
Speaker 2: just pouring it right, just giving these millions of dollars

779
00:51:38,280 --> 00:51:41,160
Speaker 2: right to the president. I think it's but I think

780
00:51:41,200 --> 00:51:43,680
Speaker 2: it's I'm not going to get defeated by that. We're

781
00:51:43,719 --> 00:51:47,680
Speaker 2: just going to keep beating the drum and try to

782
00:51:47,719 --> 00:51:50,920
Speaker 2: make sure that there's at least someone watching this occur.

783
00:51:52,160 --> 00:51:57,800
Speaker 1: So when let me just set to this story on

784
00:51:58,239 --> 00:52:04,520
Speaker 1: the facts and correct me if my memory faults here

785
00:52:04,680 --> 00:52:08,520
Speaker 1: and I get a detail of this wrong. But some

786
00:52:09,520 --> 00:52:14,960
Speaker 1: six months after leaving the Trump White House, where Jared

787
00:52:15,040 --> 00:52:22,120
Speaker 1: Kushner was initially denied a security clearance, was granted one

788
00:52:22,239 --> 00:52:27,400
Speaker 1: by presidential intervention, and, according to multiple news reports, was

789
00:52:28,000 --> 00:52:34,440
Speaker 1: the primary consumer of the nation's most closely guarded secrets.

790
00:52:34,600 --> 00:52:42,440
Speaker 1: Was insatiable with his desire to have access to compartmentalized information.

791
00:52:42,880 --> 00:52:48,240
Speaker 1: Jared Kushner, six months after leaving, takes in two billion

792
00:52:48,360 --> 00:52:53,080
Speaker 1: dollars of direct investment to an investment fund, despite having

793
00:52:53,120 --> 00:52:57,800
Speaker 1: no experience investing anything anywhere at any time ever. Takes

794
00:52:57,800 --> 00:53:03,760
Speaker 1: the money against the recommendation of the Saudi professional advisors

795
00:53:03,760 --> 00:53:09,279
Speaker 1: who advised the sovereign Wealth Fund. The Crown Prince directly intervenes,

796
00:53:09,840 --> 00:53:14,520
Speaker 1: gives Jared the money and I said at the time,

797
00:53:15,200 --> 00:53:20,360
Speaker 1: this isn't a this isn't a conflict of interest story.

798
00:53:20,400 --> 00:53:23,799
Speaker 1: This is an espionage story. That is like, we have

799
00:53:23,880 --> 00:53:28,279
Speaker 1: a country where why is oldra James in prison? Right?

800
00:53:28,440 --> 00:53:32,640
Speaker 1: Why is the you know, I was thinking of the

801
00:53:32,760 --> 00:53:38,480
Speaker 1: FBI agent, Robert, you know with these guys, these were

802
00:53:38,600 --> 00:53:43,280
Speaker 1: small timers, right in terms of the money that was taken.

803
00:53:43,640 --> 00:53:47,560
Speaker 1: It's it's astonishing amounts of money. And I couldn't agree

804
00:53:47,600 --> 00:53:51,680
Speaker 1: with you more on the fact that it's probably the

805
00:53:51,680 --> 00:53:56,919
Speaker 1: most brazen act of corruption in the entire history of

806
00:53:56,960 --> 00:54:01,440
Speaker 1: the country. That's right, Robert Hinson, thank you postcards from home.

807
00:54:01,719 --> 00:54:04,280
Speaker 1: It's like the third time today I've had a memory

808
00:54:04,360 --> 00:54:07,399
Speaker 1: failure on someone someone's name. So I don't I don't

809
00:54:07,400 --> 00:54:12,319
Speaker 1: know what's going on, but Robert Hanson, But it's a

810
00:54:12,520 --> 00:54:17,480
Speaker 1: it's a it's astonishing right to behold the corruption? What

811
00:54:17,800 --> 00:54:21,839
Speaker 1: why do you think that there isn't more coverage of

812
00:54:21,880 --> 00:54:26,800
Speaker 1: it on on the television shows? Is it a resource issue?

813
00:54:26,920 --> 00:54:30,120
Speaker 1: Is it that our voters excuse me, that our audience

814
00:54:30,200 --> 00:54:35,200
Speaker 1: doesn't care to complex a story? Right, there's easier stories

815
00:54:35,239 --> 00:54:39,200
Speaker 1: to tell, right, What why why isn't there more coverage

816
00:54:39,239 --> 00:54:39,440
Speaker 1: of this?

817
00:54:41,320 --> 00:54:45,440
Speaker 2: I I don't think it's too complex, and I don't

818
00:54:45,480 --> 00:54:49,600
Speaker 2: think that people think there's a lack of interest. I

819
00:54:49,680 --> 00:54:54,920
Speaker 2: do think it's an issue where members of the media

820
00:54:54,960 --> 00:54:59,399
Speaker 2: have decided that because Trump's core voter base does not care,

821
00:55:00,200 --> 00:55:04,480
Speaker 2: that this is not worthy of continual coverage. There was

822
00:55:04,520 --> 00:55:07,400
Speaker 2: a much more complicated story, which I think was a

823
00:55:07,520 --> 00:55:10,560
Speaker 2: legitimate story, which was when Hillary Clinton was running for

824
00:55:10,719 --> 00:55:17,080
Speaker 2: office in twenty sixteen. There was concern that foreign governments

825
00:55:17,200 --> 00:55:22,239
Speaker 2: who donated to the Clinton Foundation, not her, but the

826
00:55:22,280 --> 00:55:26,200
Speaker 2: Clinton Foundation, would then get some kind of special access

827
00:55:26,239 --> 00:55:30,160
Speaker 2: as a result because they donated to the Clinton Foundation

828
00:55:30,200 --> 00:55:33,799
Speaker 2: and the Clinton Foundations and using that money to buy

829
00:55:34,000 --> 00:55:37,959
Speaker 2: anti malarial drugs or whatever they're doing. I think that's

830
00:55:38,440 --> 00:55:41,359
Speaker 2: a legitimate thing to talk about. You know that that

831
00:55:41,400 --> 00:55:43,640
Speaker 2: could be a conflict. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't.

832
00:55:44,480 --> 00:55:48,560
Speaker 2: I did an analysis between January first, twenty fifteen, an

833
00:55:48,600 --> 00:55:52,160
Speaker 2: election day, so that basically the whole campaign in twenty sixteen,

834
00:55:52,360 --> 00:55:59,280
Speaker 2: The New York Times wrote seventy nine stories about this issue.

835
00:55:59,680 --> 00:56:05,480
Speaker 2: That's one story a week for twenty two months about

836
00:56:06,080 --> 00:56:10,080
Speaker 2: the possibility that this for now, they were going to

837
00:56:10,160 --> 00:56:14,520
Speaker 2: stop taking for money if she were to have won.

838
00:56:14,840 --> 00:56:18,000
Speaker 2: So This is about prior money being given out, not

839
00:56:18,160 --> 00:56:23,520
Speaker 2: while she was president. Now we have money that's being

840
00:56:24,560 --> 00:56:28,359
Speaker 2: dulled out while he's president that is not going to

841
00:56:28,400 --> 00:56:34,200
Speaker 2: a charity, but is directly benefiting a company that is

842
00:56:34,600 --> 00:56:39,480
Speaker 2: owned and controlled by Donald Trump. And it has gotten

843
00:56:39,520 --> 00:56:42,040
Speaker 2: a couple of stories, but you don't see this kind

844
00:56:42,120 --> 00:56:48,840
Speaker 2: of continual coverage that can drive it into the consciousness.

845
00:56:47,480 --> 00:56:49,600
Speaker 3: Of the American voter.

846
00:56:50,400 --> 00:56:53,399
Speaker 2: I bet very few people are even aware that this

847
00:56:53,480 --> 00:56:58,279
Speaker 2: has occurred because it got Why why why won't they

848
00:56:58,360 --> 00:56:58,799
Speaker 2: cover it?

849
00:56:59,560 --> 00:57:01,680
Speaker 1: Why do you thing? I think?

850
00:57:01,840 --> 00:57:05,040
Speaker 3: I do think it's an idea that.

851
00:57:07,120 --> 00:57:13,600
Speaker 2: His that his voters don't don't care that somehow it's

852
00:57:13,719 --> 00:57:17,000
Speaker 2: when it's your voters that are I actually don't I mean,

853
00:57:17,120 --> 00:57:18,120
Speaker 2: I'm speculating.

854
00:57:18,280 --> 00:57:18,800
Speaker 3: I don't know.

855
00:57:19,240 --> 00:57:22,080
Speaker 2: I think it deserves more coverage. But of course there's

856
00:57:22,200 --> 00:57:25,280
Speaker 2: ways to continue this because he's now using this money,

857
00:57:25,320 --> 00:57:31,040
Speaker 2: he's developing, you know, an island in Albania. And every

858
00:57:31,080 --> 00:57:36,800
Speaker 2: time he's doing this, it's creating conflicts because now Trump

859
00:57:36,960 --> 00:57:46,080
Speaker 2: and Kushner's profits are contingent on good relationships with those

860
00:57:46,240 --> 00:57:48,960
Speaker 2: local governments because they need to get all the permits

861
00:57:49,000 --> 00:57:52,480
Speaker 2: and everything else that they're doing. This is occurring simultaneously.

862
00:57:52,560 --> 00:57:57,760
Speaker 2: While Trump is renegotiating teriff rates with every country on Earth,

863
00:57:58,240 --> 00:58:02,880
Speaker 2: so will the country is that Trump needs to maintain

864
00:58:02,920 --> 00:58:06,480
Speaker 2: good relationships are to complete these projects, get better teriff freights.

865
00:58:06,880 --> 00:58:10,200
Speaker 2: That's certainly something I'm keeping my eye on with this,

866
00:58:10,920 --> 00:58:18,000
Speaker 2: and I think that to the extent, I don't think

867
00:58:18,040 --> 00:58:22,360
Speaker 2: it's true that people do not care about these issues.

868
00:58:22,360 --> 00:58:22,520
Speaker 1: Now.

869
00:58:22,520 --> 00:58:26,080
Speaker 2: Do Trump's corps voters, the twenty five or thirty percent

870
00:58:26,080 --> 00:58:28,600
Speaker 2: of Americans who are gonna go out and vote for

871
00:58:28,600 --> 00:58:31,200
Speaker 2: Trump no matter what happens, did they care? Probably not,

872
00:58:31,320 --> 00:58:34,160
Speaker 2: because they don't. They don't seem to change their view

873
00:58:34,200 --> 00:58:36,919
Speaker 2: on this. But I do think there are people who care,

874
00:58:37,000 --> 00:58:41,720
Speaker 2: and there are people who would want to see other

875
00:58:41,880 --> 00:58:45,600
Speaker 2: folks take a stand on this if it could be

876
00:58:45,720 --> 00:58:48,160
Speaker 2: raised now hopefully. I mean, one thing that could happen

877
00:58:48,480 --> 00:58:53,320
Speaker 2: that could change, you know, things change if the Democrats,

878
00:58:53,680 --> 00:58:56,400
Speaker 2: you know, regain let's say the House, you know, one

879
00:58:56,440 --> 00:58:58,520
Speaker 2: of the chambers. Something like that they could have here

880
00:58:58,600 --> 00:59:00,439
Speaker 2: is they could have a hearing on this. They could

881
00:59:00,440 --> 00:59:03,320
Speaker 2: have they could subpoena people, they could get more information

882
00:59:03,480 --> 00:59:07,360
Speaker 2: out there. And that's something that I see as Okay, well,

883
00:59:07,400 --> 00:59:13,960
Speaker 2: we have to start setting the predicate for this and

884
00:59:14,040 --> 00:59:16,240
Speaker 2: start laying out the facts so that at least when

885
00:59:16,240 --> 00:59:18,680
Speaker 2: we get to the point in which that might be

886
00:59:18,680 --> 00:59:23,439
Speaker 2: a possibility, maybe those members of Congress can understand what's

887
00:59:23,440 --> 00:59:25,720
Speaker 2: at stake and what's going well.

888
00:59:25,760 --> 00:59:28,800
Speaker 1: I send your stuff around to no small number of

889
00:59:28,880 --> 00:59:33,880
Speaker 1: members of Congress, and you know, we talk about it, right,

890
00:59:34,080 --> 00:59:38,360
Speaker 1: you know, on text, and it makes an impact and

891
00:59:38,400 --> 00:59:42,560
Speaker 1: they see it even though right the opposition such as

892
00:59:42,560 --> 00:59:46,560
Speaker 1: it is and the Congress isn't hitting like I would

893
00:59:46,600 --> 00:59:49,000
Speaker 1: like to see it see it hit. And there's a

894
00:59:49,000 --> 00:59:53,680
Speaker 1: bunch of different reasons for that. But let me just say,

895
00:59:53,680 --> 00:59:57,360
Speaker 1: as we come up on the hour, my admiration for

896
00:59:57,440 --> 01:00:03,720
Speaker 1: you is immense. You are a person of integrity. Uh.

897
01:00:03,840 --> 01:00:09,000
Speaker 1: You truly are the best of what journalism is. And

898
01:00:09,560 --> 01:00:14,640
Speaker 1: what journalism is is a public service that is essential

899
01:00:14,720 --> 01:00:18,480
Speaker 1: in a free society to give the public the information

900
01:00:18,720 --> 01:00:22,560
Speaker 1: they need to have to hold the government of the people,

901
01:00:22,640 --> 01:00:25,680
Speaker 1: by the people, for the people accountable because some of

902
01:00:25,720 --> 01:00:28,920
Speaker 1: the people are bad. And that's the way, that's the

903
01:00:28,960 --> 01:00:32,560
Speaker 1: way it's always been right. And power corrupts, and absolute

904
01:00:33,120 --> 01:00:37,680
Speaker 1: power corrupts absolutely as the as the saying goes, and

905
01:00:37,760 --> 01:00:41,360
Speaker 1: so one of the things when you when you consider

906
01:00:41,560 --> 01:00:44,680
Speaker 1: the collapse and I and I consider it a collapse

907
01:00:44,760 --> 01:00:52,600
Speaker 1: of corporate media, the integrity of so many institutions that

908
01:00:52,600 --> 01:00:56,640
Speaker 1: that we counted on. If you took a glass and

909
01:00:56,680 --> 01:00:59,360
Speaker 1: you and you threw it against the wall and it

910
01:00:59,560 --> 01:01:04,400
Speaker 1: fracts and all those chards fell into the soil, that's

911
01:01:04,400 --> 01:01:07,200
Speaker 1: how you have to think about that moment. But because

912
01:01:07,240 --> 01:01:11,920
Speaker 1: this is the United States, that soil is hospitable because

913
01:01:11,960 --> 01:01:16,320
Speaker 1: of the First Amendment to an independent journalism and at

914
01:01:16,400 --> 01:01:20,160
Speaker 1: the foremost front of that the tip of the sphere,

915
01:01:20,320 --> 01:01:25,040
Speaker 1: the best of the best and really getting into complex issues,

916
01:01:25,600 --> 01:01:29,320
Speaker 1: covering them with a great deal of integrity, and putting

917
01:01:29,400 --> 01:01:33,360
Speaker 1: it out there, not looking for outreage, not looking to

918
01:01:33,520 --> 01:01:38,880
Speaker 1: antagonize into insight, but to inform, to arm and formed

919
01:01:39,000 --> 01:01:45,800
Speaker 1: citizen is a dangerous citizen to the authority of any oppressive,

920
01:01:45,960 --> 01:01:51,320
Speaker 1: tyrannical force. And that is essential in this moment. And

921
01:01:51,400 --> 01:01:55,520
Speaker 1: so for the two five hundred people on this evening,

922
01:01:56,520 --> 01:02:00,640
Speaker 1: Wednesday evening who've taken time out of your out of

923
01:02:00,680 --> 01:02:04,600
Speaker 1: your night, thank you for joining. Really urge all of

924
01:02:04,640 --> 01:02:10,360
Speaker 1: you and follow me. Please subscribe to Judd Legum and

925
01:02:10,840 --> 01:02:17,920
Speaker 1: support that work. He can't do it simply by force

926
01:02:18,040 --> 01:02:23,840
Speaker 1: of his personality and indefatigability. He needs your support, and

927
01:02:24,560 --> 01:02:28,520
Speaker 1: I hope you'll consider giving it to him. Jud I'm

928
01:02:28,520 --> 01:02:32,280
Speaker 1: gonna leave the final word with you tonight to say

929
01:02:32,280 --> 01:02:34,920
Speaker 1: good night to everybody, but thank you so much for

930
01:02:35,040 --> 01:02:38,000
Speaker 1: joining and for the conversation, and keep up the great

931
01:02:38,080 --> 01:02:41,520
Speaker 1: job you're doing. You really are a great patriot, and

932
01:02:41,600 --> 01:02:44,480
Speaker 1: the work that journalists do, like yourself is the work

933
01:02:44,920 --> 01:02:48,520
Speaker 1: of patriots at a time when this country is in

934
01:02:48,560 --> 01:02:52,480
Speaker 1: a great crisis because of all the lying, because of

935
01:02:52,520 --> 01:02:56,560
Speaker 1: all the power grabbing, because of all the corruption, and

936
01:02:56,680 --> 01:03:00,000
Speaker 1: because of all of the people who have lost faith.

937
01:03:00,120 --> 01:03:03,600
Speaker 1: Been a really powerful idea. So thank you so much

938
01:03:03,640 --> 01:03:07,000
Speaker 1: for being here with all of us tonight. Well, thanks

939
01:03:07,000 --> 01:03:10,160
Speaker 1: so much for having me, h Steven. I think in

940
01:03:10,240 --> 01:03:12,040
Speaker 1: the I've really enjoyed this conversation.

941
01:03:12,200 --> 01:03:16,040
Speaker 2: I think, you know, it's very clear why you've collected

942
01:03:16,080 --> 01:03:20,720
Speaker 2: such a large and passionate following on this platform. You

943
01:03:21,080 --> 01:03:27,200
Speaker 2: bring such a rich political and historical perspective to all

944
01:03:27,240 --> 01:03:30,120
Speaker 2: of these issues, which I think is so important because

945
01:03:30,360 --> 01:03:34,240
Speaker 2: we get wrapped up in each moment, you know, every year,

946
01:03:34,520 --> 01:03:37,480
Speaker 2: it's like the moments and the news cycle we used

947
01:03:37,520 --> 01:03:39,760
Speaker 2: to talk about news cycles as if it was a

948
01:03:39,840 --> 01:03:42,720
Speaker 2: day or an hour, and it's just the unit of

949
01:03:42,720 --> 01:03:44,880
Speaker 2: time keeps getting shorter and shorter. So I think it's

950
01:03:44,920 --> 01:03:49,960
Speaker 2: really important to broaden your aperture out to understand the

951
01:03:50,040 --> 01:03:52,480
Speaker 2: scope of things, and I think you really help people

952
01:03:52,520 --> 01:03:55,280
Speaker 2: do that. Thanks for having me for hosting b and

953
01:03:55,640 --> 01:03:58,280
Speaker 2: thanks everyone for tuning in and listening.

954
01:03:58,320 --> 01:04:01,760
Speaker 1: Thank you, jud Keep up to Fight. I'm Steve Schmidt.

955
01:04:01,880 --> 01:04:04,480
Speaker 1: This is the warning. I invite you to join this

956
01:04:04,600 --> 01:04:08,880
Speaker 1: community where I promise to be honest, blunt and direct

957
01:04:09,240 --> 01:04:13,200
Speaker 1: about what is happening in this country. America is in crisis.

958
01:04:13,400 --> 01:04:17,280
Speaker 1: Follow and subscribe to this channel and on substack. Thank

959
01:04:17,320 --> 01:04:17,400
Speaker 1: you