1 00:00:02,400 --> 00:00:06,360 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wire, the podcast that created the hit 2 00:00:06,400 --> 00:00:09,640 Speaker 1: TV show The Wire. But we were first. Our idea 3 00:00:09,800 --> 00:00:13,600 Speaker 1: was stolen by that hack David Simon. We went to 4 00:00:13,800 --> 00:00:18,560 Speaker 1: hbod Have you ever considered making a should out Wires? Yeah, 5 00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:22,279 Speaker 1: and we said, you know who understands Baltimore Me and 6 00:00:22,320 --> 00:00:27,400 Speaker 1: Matt lead That's right, exactly, that's right, baby, we understand 7 00:00:27,400 --> 00:00:31,680 Speaker 1: Baltimore more than anyone understands Baltimore. I stopped there once 8 00:00:31,760 --> 00:00:35,320 Speaker 1: for gasoline on a road trip, so I get I 9 00:00:35,400 --> 00:00:38,600 Speaker 1: get it. I was I played for the Baltimore Orioles. 10 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:42,120 Speaker 1: That's a lot of people are talking about that right now. Yeah, yeah, 11 00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:45,159 Speaker 1: and uh, you know, yeah, I feel I feel like 12 00:00:45,360 --> 00:00:49,199 Speaker 1: I mean, it was in Los Angeles, it's right, and 13 00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:51,440 Speaker 1: I was in fifth grade, but yeah, I was an 14 00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:54,400 Speaker 1: oriole so and you know, we famously Season two was 15 00:00:54,440 --> 00:00:56,600 Speaker 1: based on the fact that I once bought a sandwich 16 00:00:56,640 --> 00:00:59,120 Speaker 1: from a Polish man. That's right, that's right. I said, 17 00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:01,120 Speaker 1: what if this was a a whole show, But if 18 00:01:01,120 --> 00:01:05,680 Speaker 1: this was a whole season about yeah, yeah, just like longshoreman, 19 00:01:05,760 --> 00:01:08,720 Speaker 1: like see the doors and like, you know, that's a 20 00:01:08,760 --> 00:01:10,600 Speaker 1: word that doesn't get used enough. I love the word. 21 00:01:10,680 --> 00:01:13,920 Speaker 1: Steve a door. It is an incredible job title. It's 22 00:01:14,360 --> 00:01:18,080 Speaker 1: the coolest job title. I don't know, like what about 23 00:01:18,280 --> 00:01:21,640 Speaker 1: moving like it makes no sense to me based on 24 00:01:21,720 --> 00:01:24,080 Speaker 1: what the job is. Why there, I imagine there was 25 00:01:24,120 --> 00:01:25,640 Speaker 1: just like the first guy to ever do that was 26 00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:28,320 Speaker 1: named Steve Steve, and he was just so good at 27 00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:31,240 Speaker 1: it that they were like, everybody's we're all Steve out 28 00:01:31,280 --> 00:01:35,440 Speaker 1: here now. Yeah Steven doors? How good? He isn't moving 29 00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:40,399 Speaker 1: crates shipping crates like Steve did. Oh man, I want 30 00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:43,480 Speaker 1: that job. This was a meandering way of introducing the 31 00:01:43,480 --> 00:01:50,000 Speaker 1: podcast Behind the Bastards. Guest also host of a podcast, Yeah, yeah, 32 00:01:50,080 --> 00:01:52,400 Speaker 1: Pod Yourself a Gun, which is a Sopranos podcast, and 33 00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:56,920 Speaker 1: then soon to be a Wire podcast coming out shortly so, 34 00:01:57,200 --> 00:02:01,520 Speaker 1: which is excited for that. We were talking about the Wire. Yeah, 35 00:02:01,520 --> 00:02:04,080 Speaker 1: it's a good show. Also soon to be the host 36 00:02:04,200 --> 00:02:07,640 Speaker 1: of a baby I know, I'm having a baby dude, 37 00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:13,080 Speaker 1: will subsequently launch a podcast called google Ga. Yeah. I 38 00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:16,280 Speaker 1: can't wait to do a Barney Rewatch podcast. Yeah, with 39 00:02:16,320 --> 00:02:19,840 Speaker 1: my little baby. Just like analyzing like, you know, the 40 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:24,560 Speaker 1: role of American imperialism in The Happy Purple Dinosaur. Well, 41 00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:26,760 Speaker 1: you know, there was that whole season of Barney that 42 00:02:26,800 --> 00:02:29,240 Speaker 1: took place in a contra camp in Nicaragua. Yeah, that 43 00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:32,600 Speaker 1: was great choice. You have to give it to them. Yeah, yeah, Yeah. 44 00:02:32,639 --> 00:02:35,840 Speaker 1: Barney was like teaching, you know, classes over at the 45 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:38,560 Speaker 1: School for the America's Yeah. A lot of people don't 46 00:02:38,600 --> 00:02:41,000 Speaker 1: realize that he worked hand in glove with Oliver North 47 00:02:41,720 --> 00:02:45,760 Speaker 1: those missiles to Iran exactly the only person the show trusted, 48 00:02:45,960 --> 00:02:52,040 Speaker 1: or that the shot the totally trusted the dinosaur. Yeah, 49 00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:53,640 Speaker 1: he did sell a lot of crap, but that was 50 00:02:53,760 --> 00:02:57,120 Speaker 1: that was completely unrelated. Um, we should probably talk about 51 00:02:57,720 --> 00:03:00,040 Speaker 1: were you when we last left off, we were about that. 52 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:04,400 Speaker 1: We were talking about Operation Cloudburst, this attempt by Harlan 53 00:03:04,480 --> 00:03:06,680 Speaker 1: Carter and the Border Patrol and this guy General Swing 54 00:03:06,760 --> 00:03:09,000 Speaker 1: to cleanse the border area. We should probably have a 55 00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:12,160 Speaker 1: little bit more background about what's happening order in this period. 56 00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:14,880 Speaker 1: So this is kind of again, I think Harland's primary 57 00:03:14,919 --> 00:03:18,360 Speaker 1: motivation is racial, but there's other stuff happening. Um. So, 58 00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:20,600 Speaker 1: in the early nineteen forties, the U. S. Government had 59 00:03:20,639 --> 00:03:23,280 Speaker 1: created a this thing called the Brascero program, which is 60 00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:26,400 Speaker 1: like a guest worker visa program that would let Mexican 61 00:03:26,440 --> 00:03:30,119 Speaker 1: farm workers into the country legally temporarily um to work 62 00:03:30,120 --> 00:03:32,960 Speaker 1: for American farmers. This gets started during World War Two 63 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:35,320 Speaker 1: because like, we don't have any we don't have any 64 00:03:35,400 --> 00:03:37,800 Speaker 1: dudes left in the country. We send them all over there, 65 00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:39,600 Speaker 1: you know, like we need we need, we need some 66 00:03:39,640 --> 00:03:43,440 Speaker 1: more dudes. Shortage of dudes at this point. But it 67 00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:46,560 Speaker 1: also one of the reasons why it's popular even with 68 00:03:46,600 --> 00:03:50,480 Speaker 1: people who like are pretty racist, is that it by 69 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:52,640 Speaker 1: providing kind of a legal, regulated way for them to 70 00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:54,960 Speaker 1: work here, it also provides a legally regulated way to 71 00:03:55,000 --> 00:03:58,200 Speaker 1: get them out of here. They can't become residents, right 72 00:03:58,240 --> 00:04:00,920 Speaker 1: the Bracero program does not. These people are supposed to leave, 73 00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:03,720 Speaker 1: but in fact, part of the deal is that like 74 00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:06,480 Speaker 1: ten of the migrants wages are taken out of their 75 00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:08,880 Speaker 1: paychecks and deposited to an account that are given to 76 00:04:08,920 --> 00:04:11,080 Speaker 1: them when they come back to Mexico. Right. So that's 77 00:04:11,120 --> 00:04:14,040 Speaker 1: part of why this is popular, is that it allows 78 00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:16,880 Speaker 1: them to do the work that the country can't function without, 79 00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:19,719 Speaker 1: but it also ensures that they don't stay right Like, 80 00:04:19,839 --> 00:04:23,240 Speaker 1: that's why this is such a big deal, UM for 81 00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:27,680 Speaker 1: a lot of folks. UM. So it's actually very popular. UM. 82 00:04:27,760 --> 00:04:29,599 Speaker 1: And one of the things about it is it doesn't 83 00:04:29,640 --> 00:04:31,719 Speaker 1: limit the number of workers, because why would you write 84 00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:36,200 Speaker 1: because they're not anyway. UM. Millions and millions of Mexican 85 00:04:36,240 --> 00:04:39,720 Speaker 1: workers use the Borscero program UM over the years, and 86 00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:43,040 Speaker 1: from the perspective of the US government, it works UH 87 00:04:43,120 --> 00:04:45,679 Speaker 1: pretty well for a while UM, and it certainly keeps 88 00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:49,800 Speaker 1: workers in farms UM. But and so by like the 89 00:04:49,839 --> 00:04:52,840 Speaker 1: early nineteen fifties, there's like two million of these workers 90 00:04:53,720 --> 00:04:56,440 Speaker 1: or there's like five million people have worked in through 91 00:04:56,440 --> 00:05:01,839 Speaker 1: the Broscero program. But also UM, like unauthorized migrants continued 92 00:05:01,839 --> 00:05:03,719 Speaker 1: to cross into the border, and by the early nineteen 93 00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:07,600 Speaker 1: fifties there's like two million of these people UM. And 94 00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:09,719 Speaker 1: part of one of the things like that happens in 95 00:05:09,760 --> 00:05:12,840 Speaker 1: this period is that there's suddenly like a big surge 96 00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:16,520 Speaker 1: of folks coming in unauthorized in the early nineteen fifties UM. 97 00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:19,480 Speaker 1: And this is part of what like inspires Operation Cloudburst, 98 00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:22,000 Speaker 1: is that like border patrol UM has never had to 99 00:05:22,040 --> 00:05:24,400 Speaker 1: deal with like these kind of numbers of people crossing 100 00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:29,800 Speaker 1: post war UM, and they're not really capable of handling it. UM. 101 00:05:29,880 --> 00:05:34,200 Speaker 1: So by the early nineteen fifties, UM, the number of 102 00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:37,840 Speaker 1: like voluntary departures and had raised really in nineteen forty six, 103 00:05:37,880 --> 00:05:41,760 Speaker 1: like a hundred and one thousand undocumented migrants voluntarily leave 104 00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:44,360 Speaker 1: the United States in nineteen fifty two, more than seven 105 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:46,840 Speaker 1: hundred thousand do. And you can, like these numbers are 106 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:49,400 Speaker 1: just kind of useful in seeing like how many folks 107 00:05:49,440 --> 00:05:54,880 Speaker 1: are coming in. Um So, this a lot of people 108 00:05:55,000 --> 00:06:00,440 Speaker 1: are not wild about this because again you know, uh racism, 109 00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:05,200 Speaker 1: racism and such. Yeah, um So, Joseph Swing part of 110 00:06:05,240 --> 00:06:08,080 Speaker 1: his motivation here is that, like he wants to get 111 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:13,280 Speaker 1: the employers of unlawful migrant workers to cooperate, um so 112 00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:16,160 Speaker 1: that they can like increase the number of folks who 113 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:18,479 Speaker 1: are working there under the Briscero program and shrink the 114 00:06:18,560 --> 00:06:23,280 Speaker 1: unauthorized workers. Um And so his justification for like participating 115 00:06:23,279 --> 00:06:25,680 Speaker 1: in some of the stuff that that Harlan Carter is 116 00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:28,680 Speaker 1: building is that he wants to cut down the supply 117 00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:31,599 Speaker 1: of unauthorized workers in order to get more of these 118 00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:36,360 Speaker 1: employers on board with the Brissero program. Um So, again, 119 00:06:37,040 --> 00:06:38,839 Speaker 1: a lot of there are a lot of like kind 120 00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:42,400 Speaker 1: of wonky aspects to what's happening with migration here that 121 00:06:42,440 --> 00:06:46,359 Speaker 1: you can as always justify as like not based in racism, 122 00:06:46,680 --> 00:06:47,839 Speaker 1: is based in like well, there's a lot of these 123 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:50,360 Speaker 1: undocumented people coming over and it's like great, the problem 124 00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:53,159 Speaker 1: for the border patrol and the conditions they're working under 125 00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:55,200 Speaker 1: are like really bad, and we want to reform this 126 00:06:55,279 --> 00:06:58,719 Speaker 1: program so that you know, everyone is is documented and 127 00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:00,479 Speaker 1: legal and like we're not We're not trying to stop 128 00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:02,560 Speaker 1: them from coming over. But also one of the things 129 00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:05,479 Speaker 1: you're trying to do by expanding this program is making 130 00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:09,720 Speaker 1: sure that they don't stay right. And I guess again, 131 00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:12,640 Speaker 1: you can look at what's happening with the Bracero program 132 00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:14,080 Speaker 1: in a couple of different ways. But if you really 133 00:07:14,080 --> 00:07:16,720 Speaker 1: want to know what's going on with the immigration sweeps 134 00:07:17,080 --> 00:07:22,840 Speaker 1: that Carter and Swing eventually enact, the main thing you 135 00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:25,560 Speaker 1: need to know is what they call it um And 136 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:28,920 Speaker 1: this is Harlan Carter's name for this is Operation wet Back. 137 00:07:29,880 --> 00:07:33,440 Speaker 1: That is the official name of the this immigration purge 138 00:07:33,480 --> 00:07:36,800 Speaker 1: that they're going to do it against. Did they invent 139 00:07:37,080 --> 00:07:40,720 Speaker 1: the term or was no? It existed for a while, Okay, 140 00:07:40,800 --> 00:07:45,080 Speaker 1: so they did just explicitly name it after a slur. Yes, yes, yeah, 141 00:07:45,160 --> 00:07:48,000 Speaker 1: that's exactly it. And and obviously, like again for folks 142 00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:49,840 Speaker 1: who maybe are not aware of this, I know we 143 00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:52,040 Speaker 1: have a lot of European listeners Canadian listeners who may 144 00:07:52,080 --> 00:07:54,200 Speaker 1: not have heard this. Like we back is a racial 145 00:07:54,280 --> 00:07:58,559 Speaker 1: slur for Mexican immigrants to the United States. It takes 146 00:07:58,600 --> 00:08:01,760 Speaker 1: its name from when people would cross illegally. They would 147 00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:04,440 Speaker 1: do so through the Rio Grand often and like so 148 00:08:04,600 --> 00:08:07,360 Speaker 1: you you know, you get wet when you do that, right, 149 00:08:07,400 --> 00:08:09,720 Speaker 1: and so like that's the that's the origin of the slur. 150 00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:13,560 Speaker 1: Part I don't I don't know why they specify. I 151 00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:15,520 Speaker 1: don't know why they specific but this happens. There's like 152 00:08:15,560 --> 00:08:18,440 Speaker 1: a history of this. Like an old anti Italian racial 153 00:08:18,440 --> 00:08:21,000 Speaker 1: slur is whop, which means without papers. I don't think 154 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:23,480 Speaker 1: it was entirely just for Italians, but like, you know, 155 00:08:23,560 --> 00:08:26,160 Speaker 1: this is like the late eighteen hundreds, I think, yeah, 156 00:08:27,040 --> 00:08:31,880 Speaker 1: so yeah, um and and Carter again, so Swing Swing 157 00:08:31,960 --> 00:08:33,360 Speaker 1: is the kind of guy who can sit down and 158 00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:35,440 Speaker 1: explain to you, like, well, this is where the BURSCERO 159 00:08:35,480 --> 00:08:37,600 Speaker 1: program is broken down, and like these are the problems 160 00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:39,520 Speaker 1: that we're having, and these are the different violations that 161 00:08:39,559 --> 00:08:41,720 Speaker 1: we're seeing, and like we need to get these, you know, 162 00:08:41,800 --> 00:08:44,360 Speaker 1: employers on board with this program to reform the system. 163 00:08:44,400 --> 00:08:45,520 Speaker 1: And the only way to do that is to cut 164 00:08:45,559 --> 00:08:47,560 Speaker 1: down on the like so he can get very wonky 165 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:50,440 Speaker 1: with it in a way that doesn't sound racist, whereas 166 00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:52,840 Speaker 1: Harlan Carter's like, yeah, operation we back, let's get him 167 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:56,360 Speaker 1: out of here. Um and and Carter is not great. 168 00:08:56,440 --> 00:08:58,480 Speaker 1: It's like he says, he just kind of says the 169 00:08:58,520 --> 00:09:02,160 Speaker 1: loud part loud um. In interviews with the press, he 170 00:09:02,200 --> 00:09:04,680 Speaker 1: describes it as the biggest drive against the legal aliens 171 00:09:04,679 --> 00:09:07,160 Speaker 1: in history. He tells the Los Angeles Times that he 172 00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:09,920 Speaker 1: intends to deploy quote an army of border patrol officers 173 00:09:09,920 --> 00:09:13,120 Speaker 1: complete with jeeps, trucks and seven aircraft in order to 174 00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:16,160 Speaker 1: declare quote all out war to her ol Mexican wet 175 00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:20,640 Speaker 1: backs into Mexico. So he's not added a subtle man, 176 00:09:21,040 --> 00:09:24,880 Speaker 1: he added Hall after every single yeah, you have to 177 00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:27,880 Speaker 1: imagine he's shooting his six guns into the air as 178 00:09:27,880 --> 00:09:31,480 Speaker 1: he gives these speeches to the press in the middle 179 00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:34,800 Speaker 1: of burning across he has has he lit across on 180 00:09:34,920 --> 00:09:41,480 Speaker 1: fire on someone's lawn. Harlan statement to the l A Times, Um, 181 00:09:41,640 --> 00:09:45,360 Speaker 1: So what followed was close to again, Operation wet Back 182 00:09:45,880 --> 00:09:48,480 Speaker 1: is kind of he tried. It's a lot of what 183 00:09:48,559 --> 00:09:50,880 Speaker 1: he had tried to do with Operation cloudburst only just 184 00:09:50,920 --> 00:09:52,559 Speaker 1: toned down a little bit so that they could get 185 00:09:52,559 --> 00:09:56,679 Speaker 1: the federal government on board. Um, obviously this is follows 186 00:09:56,720 --> 00:09:59,160 Speaker 1: like a massive hiring campaign of border patrol men and 187 00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:02,040 Speaker 1: they take thousands of Border Patrol agents and they separate 188 00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:04,920 Speaker 1: them into mobile task groups and they set up mobile 189 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:08,079 Speaker 1: immigration systems to block roads. So basically doing like this. 190 00:10:08,880 --> 00:10:11,400 Speaker 1: They've already put this, like started putting these fences up, 191 00:10:11,679 --> 00:10:14,040 Speaker 1: but they do like a kind of a you could 192 00:10:14,040 --> 00:10:16,280 Speaker 1: call it a kind of like racist defense, like defensive 193 00:10:16,280 --> 00:10:19,400 Speaker 1: white supremacy in depth, where they're setting up blockades deeper 194 00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:22,120 Speaker 1: into the country and they're also carrying out raids on 195 00:10:22,200 --> 00:10:26,480 Speaker 1: factories and restaurants and just through whatever mean they can 196 00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:29,800 Speaker 1: arresting and containing huge numbers of Mexican migrants. And I'm 197 00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:32,920 Speaker 1: gonna quote from Megre again. To hold the detainees, the 198 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:36,640 Speaker 1: officers turned to public spaces into temporary detention facilities. For example, 199 00:10:36,679 --> 00:10:39,520 Speaker 1: in Los Angeles, the Border Patrol transformed Alsian Park, a 200 00:10:39,559 --> 00:10:43,120 Speaker 1: popular public park, into a temporary holding station where apprehended 201 00:10:43,160 --> 00:10:46,680 Speaker 1: Mexican nationals were processed for deportation. In countless fields and 202 00:10:46,679 --> 00:10:49,559 Speaker 1: along many country roads, border patrol officers set up mobile 203 00:10:49,559 --> 00:10:54,280 Speaker 1: immigration stations to process sanctioned Mexican immigrants for official deportation. 204 00:10:54,520 --> 00:10:56,640 Speaker 1: They use trucks on loan from the Armed Services to 205 00:10:56,640 --> 00:11:00,160 Speaker 1: transport the apprehended immigrants from California to Nogales, Arizona for 206 00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:04,520 Speaker 1: deportation to Mexico. To showcase the large numbers of migrants 207 00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:07,560 Speaker 1: being processed for forced removal into Mexico, officers were directed 208 00:11:07,559 --> 00:11:11,880 Speaker 1: to raise Mexicano communities, leisure spots and migrant camps, ranches, farms, 209 00:11:11,880 --> 00:11:14,840 Speaker 1: and parks. They also paid close attention to urban industries 210 00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:18,439 Speaker 1: known to employ undocumented Mexican immigrants. Between June seventeenth and 211 00:11:18,520 --> 00:11:21,839 Speaker 1: June nineteen fifty four, two thousand, eight hundred and twenty 212 00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:23,960 Speaker 1: seven of the four thousand, four hundred and three migrants 213 00:11:23,960 --> 00:11:26,719 Speaker 1: apprehended by the task force assigned to Los Angeles had 214 00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:29,520 Speaker 1: worked in industry. After border patrol raids during the summer 215 00:11:29,559 --> 00:11:32,360 Speaker 1: of nineteen fifty four, three Los Angeles brickyards were left 216 00:11:32,360 --> 00:11:36,760 Speaker 1: without sufficient numbers of workers and temporarily closed down their operations. Similarly, 217 00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:39,680 Speaker 1: border patrol officers paid close attention to the hotel and 218 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:43,840 Speaker 1: restaurant business, which routinely hired undocumented Mexican immigrants. As bus boys, 219 00:11:43,920 --> 00:11:47,560 Speaker 1: kitchen help waiters, et cetera. Officers reported apprehending such workers 220 00:11:47,559 --> 00:11:50,480 Speaker 1: at well known establishments such as the Builtmore Hotel, Beverly 221 00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:54,080 Speaker 1: Hills Hotel, Hollywood, Roosevelt Hotel, Los Angeles Athletic Club, and 222 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:57,280 Speaker 1: the Brown Derby. At times, border patrol raids created moments 223 00:11:57,280 --> 00:11:59,880 Speaker 1: of chaos at popular restaurants when migrants attempted to a 224 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:02,719 Speaker 1: scape by running through the servant area. Everywhere they went, 225 00:12:02,800 --> 00:12:05,480 Speaker 1: the officers were chased and photographed by journalists who had 226 00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:07,880 Speaker 1: come to witness what General Swing had promised would be 227 00:12:07,880 --> 00:12:11,560 Speaker 1: a spectacular show of US immigration law enforcement. Swing pledge 228 00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:13,719 Speaker 1: that the Border Patrol would deport or otherwise purge the 229 00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:17,080 Speaker 1: one million undocumented Mexican nationals estimated to be living in 230 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:20,800 Speaker 1: the United States at the time. Oh, that sounds like 231 00:12:20,840 --> 00:12:24,000 Speaker 1: a lot of fun. Just uh, yeah, there's just going 232 00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:26,640 Speaker 1: buck wild with journalists in the back, like this is 233 00:12:26,840 --> 00:12:31,400 Speaker 1: great footage. Yeah, and it's interesting because a huge number 234 00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:34,640 Speaker 1: of these guys are immediately let back into the country. 235 00:12:34,679 --> 00:12:36,360 Speaker 1: Like a lot of times what they're doing is they're 236 00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:39,200 Speaker 1: pushing them across the border and then making them recross 237 00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:41,880 Speaker 1: under like the Briscero program. So again, they can be 238 00:12:41,880 --> 00:12:44,040 Speaker 1: because they need the labor. Right, they don't want the 239 00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:46,000 Speaker 1: brickyards shut down. They don't write these places to go 240 00:12:46,160 --> 00:12:48,720 Speaker 1: to business. They just don't want these people to be 241 00:12:48,800 --> 00:12:51,280 Speaker 1: able to actually build a life in the United States, right, 242 00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:54,360 Speaker 1: they want to guarantee that they go back. Um So, 243 00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:57,200 Speaker 1: that's like a huge chunk of what's of what's happening here, 244 00:12:57,280 --> 00:13:01,480 Speaker 1: Like it's it's basically taking it's taking the natural movement 245 00:13:01,679 --> 00:13:04,720 Speaker 1: of people across an area where like their ancestors and 246 00:13:04,760 --> 00:13:10,000 Speaker 1: relatives have been moving freely for centuries, and it's stopping that, 247 00:13:10,280 --> 00:13:13,520 Speaker 1: stopping like the ability of populations to move and build lives, 248 00:13:13,559 --> 00:13:16,920 Speaker 1: and turning them entirely into economic units. Right, You're not 249 00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:20,200 Speaker 1: a member of the community, your your labor. Yeah yeah, 250 00:13:20,280 --> 00:13:24,920 Speaker 1: yeah yeah, You're an entirely different class of citizen, which 251 00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:28,640 Speaker 1: is non citizen, which means, uh, you have your rights, 252 00:13:28,920 --> 00:13:32,160 Speaker 1: you have no rights. You're you're not entitled to any 253 00:13:32,440 --> 00:13:35,480 Speaker 1: of the human rights that we give to our citizens. 254 00:13:36,080 --> 00:13:40,880 Speaker 1: Super super normal and definitely a natural state of things, 255 00:13:40,880 --> 00:13:44,640 Speaker 1: certainly not definitely the way things are supposed to go, exactly, 256 00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:49,480 Speaker 1: not an invention of humans at all. No. Um So, 257 00:13:49,520 --> 00:13:51,400 Speaker 1: at the same time as they're doing this, and obviously 258 00:13:51,400 --> 00:13:53,200 Speaker 1: the media is a big part of like why this 259 00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:55,600 Speaker 1: is such a hit because you know I and says, hey, 260 00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:57,560 Speaker 1: we're going to raid the Bilt more like yeah, you're 261 00:13:57,559 --> 00:13:59,800 Speaker 1: gonna show up there, and like that's like who who 262 00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:03,400 Speaker 1: doesn't want to see that? Um as like a journalist, 263 00:14:03,440 --> 00:14:05,720 Speaker 1: So like part of like what part of like what 264 00:14:05,880 --> 00:14:08,640 Speaker 1: increases sort of the because the people hadn't really the 265 00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:11,520 Speaker 1: Border Patrol had not been probably most Americans have only 266 00:14:11,559 --> 00:14:14,280 Speaker 1: been kind of vaguely aware of its existence top until 267 00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:16,560 Speaker 1: this point. This is part of what turns them into 268 00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:19,360 Speaker 1: like an institution within the United States. Is like all 269 00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:23,520 Speaker 1: of the press around Operation wet Back, right, it's like 270 00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:26,440 Speaker 1: the you know, they took a cue from the FBI. 271 00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:29,600 Speaker 1: They're like, we need we need to be flashy, we 272 00:14:29,680 --> 00:14:32,200 Speaker 1: need to uh, we need to look cool as ship 273 00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:36,040 Speaker 1: doing a bunch of horrid ship. Yeah, I mean like 274 00:14:36,080 --> 00:14:38,320 Speaker 1: and you're talking about like what the FBI does against 275 00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:41,360 Speaker 1: anarchists and socialists and like the late you know, the 276 00:14:41,680 --> 00:14:44,040 Speaker 1: early nineteen hundreds. Yea, this is this is like the 277 00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:46,920 Speaker 1: Border Patrol's equivalent of that, yes, and creating like you know, 278 00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:50,080 Speaker 1: an entire propaganda arm that made like you know the 279 00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:53,920 Speaker 1: g man cool Yes, yes, UM. And at the same 280 00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:57,120 Speaker 1: time they're doing this, Carter and Swing are like meeting 281 00:14:57,120 --> 00:15:00,400 Speaker 1: with these influential ranchers and farmers and industrialists, the people 282 00:15:00,560 --> 00:15:03,520 Speaker 1: using the undocumented migrant labor, and they're getting them in 283 00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:06,760 Speaker 1: line between like a revamp of the Briscero program. That 284 00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:10,280 Speaker 1: UM is again like supposed to fix some of the 285 00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:12,040 Speaker 1: issues the program and had. I'm not going to get 286 00:15:12,120 --> 00:15:14,200 Speaker 1: terribly into the weeds on that kind of stuff. There's 287 00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:16,680 Speaker 1: plenty of places to read about that, UM if you'd like, 288 00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:20,840 Speaker 1: there's a pretty good article. UM. Yeah, we'll have some 289 00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:23,200 Speaker 1: sources in here. But the book Migra goes into a 290 00:15:23,200 --> 00:15:25,840 Speaker 1: tremendous amount of detail about it. So in the end 291 00:15:26,160 --> 00:15:29,320 Speaker 1: it was a wild success. More than one million people 292 00:15:29,360 --> 00:15:31,680 Speaker 1: are deported, potentially as many as one and a half 293 00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:35,720 Speaker 1: million people are deported. UM. Beyond that, the precedent was 294 00:15:35,840 --> 00:15:38,800 Speaker 1: established that the U. S. Border Patrol could and should 295 00:15:39,080 --> 00:15:43,320 Speaker 1: conduct operations from deep within the United States. Border Patrol 296 00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:47,240 Speaker 1: is legally able to carry out immigration checkpoints within a 297 00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:50,720 Speaker 1: hundred miles of the border right any border like that's 298 00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:54,680 Speaker 1: the exactly of any border right which includes the coast 299 00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:58,480 Speaker 1: in Canada. So basically all of the places where most 300 00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:01,480 Speaker 1: Americans live are covered by the too. About two thirds 301 00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:03,880 Speaker 1: of the U. S population are in this area, which 302 00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:06,920 Speaker 1: was why the Border Patrol has like the whitest ranging 303 00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:11,360 Speaker 1: purview of any law enforcement agency pretty much. Um I 304 00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:13,640 Speaker 1: guess yeah, like the FBI technically has more, but like 305 00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:16,600 Speaker 1: their mission is more limited any it's whatever, um like, 306 00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:19,120 Speaker 1: this is like the Border Patrol. This is what turns 307 00:16:19,160 --> 00:16:21,560 Speaker 1: them into what they are, to this monster, this jugger. 308 00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:24,000 Speaker 1: Not they are today as opposed to like some dudes 309 00:16:24,120 --> 00:16:27,160 Speaker 1: literally on the border, you know, like say which like 310 00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:29,040 Speaker 1: again and not that Like they weren't getting up to 311 00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:32,120 Speaker 1: problematic ship earlier in their history, but their ability to 312 00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:36,280 Speaker 1: do harm was limited by geography. It's not after operation 313 00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:38,320 Speaker 1: went back, and we can thank Harlon Carter for that. 314 00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:42,080 Speaker 1: Um and it's it's it's worth kind of noting here. 315 00:16:42,080 --> 00:16:44,600 Speaker 1: I'm not gonna get too much into Trump, but he 316 00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:48,520 Speaker 1: Donald Trump consciously looks back to Harlan Carter's period of 317 00:16:48,520 --> 00:16:53,040 Speaker 1: time running the Border Patrol as as an inspiration. During 318 00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:57,000 Speaker 1: a two thousand fifteen presidential Republican presidential debate, um, Donald 319 00:16:57,040 --> 00:16:59,840 Speaker 1: Trump said, quote, let me just tell you that Dwight 320 00:16:59,880 --> 00:17:03,160 Speaker 1: I Sinhower. Good president, great president. People liked him. I 321 00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:05,800 Speaker 1: liked him. I like Ike right the expression I like Ike. 322 00:17:06,160 --> 00:17:08,639 Speaker 1: Moved one point five million illegal immigrants out of the country. 323 00:17:08,680 --> 00:17:10,720 Speaker 1: Move them just beyond the border. They came back. Moved 324 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:13,080 Speaker 1: them again, beyond the border, they came back. Didn't like it. 325 00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:16,400 Speaker 1: Moved him way south. They never came back. Dwight Eisenhower, 326 00:17:16,440 --> 00:17:18,440 Speaker 1: you don't get nicer, you don't get friendlier. They moved 327 00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:20,520 Speaker 1: one and a half million people out. We have no choice. 328 00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:25,000 Speaker 1: We have no choice. So first off, obviously it's probably 329 00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:27,840 Speaker 1: not gonna surprise people. That's again, as we've said, completely wrong, 330 00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:30,280 Speaker 1: for among other things, nearly all of them come back 331 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:33,639 Speaker 1: under like the PA program. Like that's part of the point, 332 00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:38,960 Speaker 1: Like they're not um. But yeah, it's it's so carter. 333 00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:43,760 Speaker 1: And again there's the kind of folks who like again 334 00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:47,040 Speaker 1: Swing I'm sure has his racism. Ike there's racism, and 335 00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:48,919 Speaker 1: like his motivations, but it's also there's a lot of 336 00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:51,600 Speaker 1: economic and just like they're the kind of people who 337 00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:54,439 Speaker 1: believe all of this stuff should be done based on 338 00:17:54,480 --> 00:17:56,399 Speaker 1: a set of laws. So they're like kind of fundamentally 339 00:17:56,440 --> 00:17:58,640 Speaker 1: if they're probably more offended by the fact that people 340 00:17:58,680 --> 00:18:02,879 Speaker 1: are undocumented necessarily about the racial element that's chunk of 341 00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:06,480 Speaker 1: these people. Absolutely, lack of documents alone is just like 342 00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:10,919 Speaker 1: Jesus Carter's doing it for white supremacy. And that's the 343 00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:15,080 Speaker 1: thing you'll notice. The thing Trump takes out of Operation 344 00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:18,040 Speaker 1: Wetback isn't the way they established this kind of like 345 00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:22,560 Speaker 1: system in order to like documented, like make these workers legal, 346 00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:25,080 Speaker 1: in order to provide a labor for Like, that's not 347 00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:26,480 Speaker 1: the thing he takes out of this. The thing that 348 00:18:26,560 --> 00:18:28,040 Speaker 1: takes out of this is they got one and a 349 00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:31,320 Speaker 1: half million Mexicans to leave, right, Yeah, Like that's the 350 00:18:31,320 --> 00:18:34,080 Speaker 1: thing that has come down in history from Carter's period 351 00:18:34,119 --> 00:18:36,600 Speaker 1: is he's cutting to the heart of really what's going 352 00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:39,199 Speaker 1: on here behind all of the you know, I don't know, 353 00:18:39,280 --> 00:18:42,520 Speaker 1: respectability politics or whatever of it. Yes, that's what has 354 00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:45,040 Speaker 1: lived on that and of course the militarization of the 355 00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:46,640 Speaker 1: border patrol and the fact that it gets to work 356 00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:50,239 Speaker 1: every We get all of that from Harlotte Carter. And 357 00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:54,280 Speaker 1: here's the thing, Harlan's just getting started. This ain't even 358 00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:56,920 Speaker 1: this ain't even his whole thing, right this, Like this 359 00:18:56,960 --> 00:18:59,520 Speaker 1: isn't even his main gig. You know, we haven't even 360 00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:02,800 Speaker 1: gotten so yeah, the the beginning, which is like we're 361 00:19:02,840 --> 00:19:04,480 Speaker 1: going to talk about some n r A s and 362 00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:06,879 Speaker 1: some guns. We're not even into that ship yet. Like 363 00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:10,159 Speaker 1: this is just his first gig, right, um, this is 364 00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:12,679 Speaker 1: his like the the equivalent of the time like the 365 00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:14,639 Speaker 1: rest of us spent like working at a Windy's or 366 00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:18,560 Speaker 1: something that Harlan Carter, right, this is this is Hitler 367 00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:21,080 Speaker 1: at painting school. Yeah, this is yeah, this is Hitler 368 00:19:21,119 --> 00:19:26,600 Speaker 1: at fucking like hanging out in Austrian opera houses, arguing 369 00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:29,240 Speaker 1: with homeless people about the Jews, which was like a 370 00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:31,080 Speaker 1: whole chunk of his life. But anyway, because he was 371 00:19:31,119 --> 00:19:33,320 Speaker 1: homeless too, it's whatever they were living in a men's 372 00:19:33,359 --> 00:19:38,800 Speaker 1: shelter anyway, Hitler. Um. So I should note before we 373 00:19:38,840 --> 00:19:40,720 Speaker 1: move on to the n r A that while Harlan 374 00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:44,040 Speaker 1: Carter was massively expanding the reaching power of the Border Patrol, 375 00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:46,720 Speaker 1: he was also robbing it blind for his own benefit. 376 00:19:46,920 --> 00:19:49,760 Speaker 1: See Harlan loves shooting, right, Like, he's not one of 377 00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:51,840 Speaker 1: these nr like like Wayne Lapierre, the current head of 378 00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:54,119 Speaker 1: the n r A. I don't think Wayne particularly cares 379 00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:56,120 Speaker 1: much about like a lot of these guys like it's 380 00:19:56,119 --> 00:19:59,439 Speaker 1: a political thing as opposed to them, like Harlan Carter is, 381 00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:02,840 Speaker 1: you have to a loves to shoot guns. Um, but 382 00:20:02,920 --> 00:20:06,240 Speaker 1: here's the thing about shooting guns. Bullets cost money. So 383 00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:09,600 Speaker 1: three years after Harland Carter retires from government service in 384 00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:13,480 Speaker 1: nineteen fifty seven, the Justice Department opens an investigation into 385 00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:17,159 Speaker 1: what are termed quote various allegations against him, including the 386 00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:19,800 Speaker 1: claim that he had stolen forty to fifty thousand rounds 387 00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:22,640 Speaker 1: of ammunition from the Border Patrol quote, with the sole 388 00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:25,160 Speaker 1: intent of converting this property to his own use after 389 00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:29,159 Speaker 1: he retired. So he steals like a palata bullets to 390 00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:33,320 Speaker 1: go shoot privately. Um, I would love it if we 391 00:20:33,359 --> 00:20:36,360 Speaker 1: found out that he's the one who stole his mom's car. Yes, 392 00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:43,439 Speaker 1: I gotta find some Mexicans. Fifteen year old gets murdered. 393 00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:48,200 Speaker 1: So yeah, it's not that funny, but like it's not impossible, right. Um. 394 00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:50,040 Speaker 1: So I'm gonna quote from the New York Times here 395 00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:53,200 Speaker 1: about this theft of tens of thousands of bullets that 396 00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:56,840 Speaker 1: Harland Carter perpetrated. Quote. Asking an interview in Denver about 397 00:20:56,840 --> 00:20:59,359 Speaker 1: the allegations, Mr Carter said that he had testified before 398 00:20:59,359 --> 00:21:02,000 Speaker 1: a federal jury and San Diego for some hours, and 399 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:03,680 Speaker 1: they covered a lot of things, none of which I'm 400 00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:06,080 Speaker 1: ashaved of and none of which I had any difficulty asking. 401 00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:08,640 Speaker 1: He added that he did not quote know anything about 402 00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:12,440 Speaker 1: the disappearance or a misappropriation of government ammo. The missing ammunition, 403 00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:15,040 Speaker 1: worth several thousand dollars, was never traced, according to an 404 00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:17,360 Speaker 1: agent who worked on the investigation, and no charges were 405 00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:24,400 Speaker 1: fired filed. Yeah, yeah, yeah, very funny. Um. Now, obviously 406 00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:27,080 Speaker 1: Carter didn't need to steal those bullets because he's about 407 00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:29,480 Speaker 1: to get a new job that is never gonna let 408 00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:32,800 Speaker 1: this him run out of ammunition. So, as we stated earlier, 409 00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:34,520 Speaker 1: there's a little bit of debate about when he joined 410 00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:36,160 Speaker 1: the n r A, whether it was before or after 411 00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:39,960 Speaker 1: he killed Raymond Casiano. Probably he was like sixteen when 412 00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:43,960 Speaker 1: he when he joins UM and in nineteen fifty one, 413 00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:45,840 Speaker 1: the year after he becomes head of the Border Patrol, 414 00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:49,080 Speaker 1: he joins the n r a S National Board UM 415 00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:51,840 Speaker 1: And again, at this point in time, there's obviously there's 416 00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:53,520 Speaker 1: people who are right winging the n r A. There's 417 00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:56,600 Speaker 1: who wanted to be more of a conservative institution. It's 418 00:21:56,640 --> 00:22:01,520 Speaker 1: not really a political organization. Right, it's almost at this 419 00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:04,200 Speaker 1: point from just this just from what I remember, it's 420 00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:07,440 Speaker 1: almost an a political just kind of gun lobbying group 421 00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:10,760 Speaker 1: that kind of they're not lobbying there, not lobbying. They 422 00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:13,280 Speaker 1: do not lobby in this period of time. So they're 423 00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:15,960 Speaker 1: having a Sierra Club at this point. Yeah, they're they're 424 00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:18,280 Speaker 1: just kind of like, yeah, they're there to provide training 425 00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:20,760 Speaker 1: courses for people. They're there. They're there so that one 426 00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:23,320 Speaker 1: of the things they do is when the government demilitarizes 427 00:22:23,359 --> 00:22:25,320 Speaker 1: weapons right there, like, okay, we're not using like the 428 00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:27,080 Speaker 1: m one garand is no longer the gun that the 429 00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:28,639 Speaker 1: army uses. So we have a couple of million of 430 00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:31,680 Speaker 1: these things. We will sell them at a discount to 431 00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:33,440 Speaker 1: the n r A, who can sell them very cheap 432 00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:35,439 Speaker 1: to their members. And like it's part of this. So 433 00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:38,120 Speaker 1: there's like stuff that they're doing, but they're not they're 434 00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:42,280 Speaker 1: not getting in and they are they have some involvement politically, 435 00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:44,119 Speaker 1: we'll talk about that in a little bit, but they 436 00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:47,200 Speaker 1: are not like lobbying on behalf of the Republican Party 437 00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:49,439 Speaker 1: or something, right like, that's not really a thing that 438 00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:52,320 Speaker 1: the n r A is doing yet. Harlan Carter wants 439 00:22:52,359 --> 00:22:53,960 Speaker 1: that to be a thing that they're doing, but they're not. 440 00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:56,680 Speaker 1: In nineteen fifty one when he joins the board, they're 441 00:22:56,720 --> 00:23:00,760 Speaker 1: still not very political. Um. But now that he's on 442 00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:03,480 Speaker 1: the board, he starts to see the organization with friends 443 00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:05,639 Speaker 1: and comrades from the Border Patrol. Right, because he can 444 00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:07,680 Speaker 1: help get people hired, he can put in a good word. 445 00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:10,280 Speaker 1: So he starts all his buddies from the Border Patrol 446 00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:12,920 Speaker 1: who are like wanting a cushy job and the private 447 00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:15,080 Speaker 1: sector after, you know, working for the guy, like, he 448 00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:19,399 Speaker 1: starts filling them, filling the the n r A with them. Um. 449 00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:22,480 Speaker 1: So he finally leaves government service in the early nineteen sixties. 450 00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:24,760 Speaker 1: He he stops running the Border Patrol in fifty seven, 451 00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:27,159 Speaker 1: but he does some other ship. Um, not really that 452 00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:30,439 Speaker 1: important for our purposes, but he's he's he retires from 453 00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:32,919 Speaker 1: working for the government in the early sixties. Um, and 454 00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:35,399 Speaker 1: he gets pretty much immediately elected president of the n 455 00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:38,840 Speaker 1: r A from nineteen sixty five to nineteen sixty seven. Um. 456 00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:40,760 Speaker 1: But that doesn't mean he's actually running the n r 457 00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:43,600 Speaker 1: A like, right, it's just like a job within the organization. 458 00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:46,600 Speaker 1: You've still got this board of directors so he's an 459 00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:49,040 Speaker 1: influential figure in the n r A, but he's not 460 00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:52,160 Speaker 1: actually like directing it at this point, right, he's collecting 461 00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:54,879 Speaker 1: a check and he's probably getting like, uh, you know, 462 00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:58,800 Speaker 1: a bunch of free bullets, which is even more free bullets. Well, 463 00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:00,720 Speaker 1: he also wants it. He wants the n r A 464 00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:02,760 Speaker 1: to get more political. And again we're gonna we're gonna 465 00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:05,200 Speaker 1: chat a little bit about why in a second, um. 466 00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:07,800 Speaker 1: But one of the things that happens is like the 467 00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:10,000 Speaker 1: folks at the n r A who kind of don't 468 00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:12,879 Speaker 1: necessarily want that, No, they have to do something with 469 00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:16,040 Speaker 1: Harlyn Carter, right, Like you can't like ignore him, um, 470 00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:18,480 Speaker 1: so they stick him. They create a lobbying arm for 471 00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:20,560 Speaker 1: the first time of the n r A, uh, the 472 00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:23,920 Speaker 1: Institute for Legislative Action, and they put him in charge 473 00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:26,080 Speaker 1: of it. And again, this is the first time the 474 00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:28,680 Speaker 1: n r A had had a lobbying arm. Um. In 475 00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:32,639 Speaker 1: the early nineteen sixties it was like not they barely 476 00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:35,480 Speaker 1: funded it. Um. So there's this, you know, there's kind 477 00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:37,560 Speaker 1: of this growing fight and and Harlan is one of 478 00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:39,280 Speaker 1: these guys saying that like, hey, the n r A 479 00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:41,120 Speaker 1: needs to get more political, we need to be lobbying. 480 00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:44,280 Speaker 1: We need to be focused on Second Amendment advocacy that 481 00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:47,480 Speaker 1: was not had nothing like the n r a's planks, 482 00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:50,840 Speaker 1: like they're they're like stated purpose as an organization did 483 00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:53,879 Speaker 1: not include like protecting or defending the Second Amendment at all, 484 00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:56,760 Speaker 1: Like that was not on there even on their radar. Um, 485 00:24:56,840 --> 00:24:59,320 Speaker 1: he thinks it needs to be. And the old guard 486 00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:01,960 Speaker 1: who run the r A don't see it that way 487 00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:04,959 Speaker 1: They see themselves is essentially in partnership with the government 488 00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:07,280 Speaker 1: to ensure the development of a heavy of a healthy 489 00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:10,560 Speaker 1: shooting sports culture in the United States, right, And part 490 00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:12,480 Speaker 1: of what that means is that when gun control laws 491 00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:18,120 Speaker 1: get passed, they work with the government to formulate those laws. Um. 492 00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:20,959 Speaker 1: So again they're certainly like they're not anti gun, right, 493 00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:23,800 Speaker 1: but they're not anything we would recognize as like in 494 00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:26,600 Speaker 1: like a modern political context. They just wanna so it 495 00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:28,240 Speaker 1: sounds like they just want to make sure that the 496 00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:34,000 Speaker 1: gun control doesn't affect hunting and or like regulation of 497 00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:38,639 Speaker 1: people owning actual rifles. Yeah. Yeah, And it's again everything 498 00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:41,439 Speaker 1: is different, right, Like nothing the A R fifteen exists 499 00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:43,600 Speaker 1: in this period, but it's not what it's going to become, 500 00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:46,400 Speaker 1: right like because it's it's harder to make. They're much 501 00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:48,960 Speaker 1: less common like today, and they are like one of 502 00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:50,879 Speaker 1: the things that has made the a R fifteen what 503 00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:54,359 Speaker 1: it is is that it's a perfectly modular platform. Um. 504 00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:56,720 Speaker 1: So it's basically like gun legos. So there's like a 505 00:25:56,840 --> 00:25:59,760 Speaker 1: million you can customize it infinitely. You can make the 506 00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:01,960 Speaker 1: bay sit gun itself for a couple of hundred bucks 507 00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:04,280 Speaker 1: if you have something. It's not like that at this point. 508 00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:09,280 Speaker 1: Rights it's now it's it's like the Honda Civic of Yeah, 509 00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:12,760 Speaker 1: so they just haven't. Like part of why it's not 510 00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:14,320 Speaker 1: political in the way it will become is that there's 511 00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:16,680 Speaker 1: not really a need to you know, like no one's 512 00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:21,720 Speaker 1: there's not like, uh, there's not. The culture that that 513 00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:24,320 Speaker 1: the n r A helps to create doesn't exist because 514 00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:26,480 Speaker 1: they're not doing that. So yeah, their primary focus is 515 00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:30,000 Speaker 1: like hunting and target shooting. Right. Um And again, Carter 516 00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:32,960 Speaker 1: has his own interpretation of the Second Amendment and in 517 00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:35,199 Speaker 1: the nineteen seventies he's going to go to war with 518 00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:37,520 Speaker 1: the n r a's old guard in order to change it. 519 00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:40,720 Speaker 1: But before we get into that, we should probably have 520 00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:45,760 Speaker 1: some ads. I love ads, oh I do too, including 521 00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:55,080 Speaker 1: this ad for guns. The concept of yeah, guns, how 522 00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:57,640 Speaker 1: about the life card? The life card, it's a gun 523 00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:01,399 Speaker 1: that's built into a little credit card. Can't shoot? Well no, 524 00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:04,960 Speaker 1: is it accurate? Of course not? Is it? Is it 525 00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:08,080 Speaker 1: a stupid thing to carry in your pocket? Yes? Six 526 00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:14,000 Speaker 1: enjoy um, that's a real thing. Look look it up, 527 00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:16,439 Speaker 1: very simply gun of the of the of the of 528 00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:20,440 Speaker 1: the meme guns, easily the memest That's the whole thing 529 00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:22,600 Speaker 1: we have these days. There's no meme guns. In the 530 00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:26,119 Speaker 1: nineteen sixties. We haven't invented memes, you know, but we 531 00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:29,879 Speaker 1: had one. But yeah, which was the meme from the 532 00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:32,560 Speaker 1: nineteen sixties? And well it's it's earlier than that. You 533 00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:34,199 Speaker 1: know that this is getting way off topic. But you've 534 00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:37,280 Speaker 1: just heard of Kilroy was here. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Yeah, 535 00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:40,080 Speaker 1: there's memes. But but I was thinking, I was like, 536 00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:43,400 Speaker 1: was this is the Suppruter film? Was that? I mean, 537 00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:46,240 Speaker 1: I guess that came out in the second case, Yeah, no, 538 00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:48,560 Speaker 1: it comes out a little later. That's like the sixties 539 00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:52,560 Speaker 1: or mid sixties, right, But when what did the did 540 00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:54,719 Speaker 1: people see the Suppruter film? I thought that was like, 541 00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:57,800 Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, I will tell you my 542 00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:01,200 Speaker 1: entire life. I have specifically picked houses with a floor 543 00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:04,240 Speaker 1: plan where the bathroom is kind of like back into 544 00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:06,920 Speaker 1: the left of the living room, so that when people 545 00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:08,560 Speaker 1: ask where the bathroom is, I can say, oh, just 546 00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:11,800 Speaker 1: take a Kennedy, you know, go back into the left. 547 00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:23,879 Speaker 1: JFK getting murdered joke. Anyway, here's ads. Oh we're back. 548 00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:27,760 Speaker 1: Nobody's having a good time. You know. Robert Kennedy was 549 00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:29,960 Speaker 1: killed with the twenty two, which is the same caliber 550 00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:32,960 Speaker 1: as the life card, the gun that's built into a 551 00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:38,479 Speaker 1: credit card. There's a credit card. Yeah, yeah, I mean, honestly, 552 00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:40,480 Speaker 1: if Sir hn, Sir Hannah had one of those, RFK 553 00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:45,480 Speaker 1: would probably be alive. Is a really stupid gun. Um. Anyway, 554 00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:48,840 Speaker 1: the Second Amendment, well, actually, weirdly enough, that's getting close 555 00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:50,760 Speaker 1: to an argument Harlan Carter will later make, but I 556 00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:54,360 Speaker 1: don't want to. I don't want to get ahead of things. Um. 557 00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:57,320 Speaker 1: So the Second Amendment is I think it's fair to say, 558 00:28:57,360 --> 00:28:59,720 Speaker 1: the most politicized part of the Bill of Rights today. 559 00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:03,120 Speaker 1: That's probably not maybe the First Amendment gives it a 560 00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:05,920 Speaker 1: run for its money. Um, But even then, it's usually 561 00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:09,120 Speaker 1: people differing over interpretations of the First Amendment as opposed to. 562 00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:12,800 Speaker 1: The argument over the Second is really should it exist 563 00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:14,480 Speaker 1: or does it exist in the way that it's like 564 00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:18,040 Speaker 1: currently being interpreted, right, because awful lot of Americans I 565 00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:21,760 Speaker 1: think it shouldn't be the law of the land at all, um, 566 00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:25,680 Speaker 1: which is difficult to uh square with actually doing something 567 00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:28,560 Speaker 1: legislatively because it does exist. But anyway, in two thousand 568 00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:31,480 Speaker 1: and eight, the Supreme Court ruled in d C. Versus 569 00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:34,440 Speaker 1: Heller that the Second Amendment establishes an individual right to 570 00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:37,360 Speaker 1: bear arms. Now, obviously, a lot of liberals see this 571 00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:40,480 Speaker 1: as terrible jewishprudence and claim that an individual right to 572 00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:42,760 Speaker 1: bear arms was basically invented by the n r A. 573 00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:46,360 Speaker 1: Conservatives will say the opposite, Um that you know, this 574 00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:49,080 Speaker 1: was clearly what the founders had intended. Uh. And the 575 00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:52,480 Speaker 1: reality of it is that while an individualist interpretation of 576 00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:54,600 Speaker 1: the Second Amendment at a federal level is only like 577 00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:57,959 Speaker 1: twenty years old, different courts have ruled very differently on 578 00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:00,800 Speaker 1: the Second Amendment for quite a long time. I'm also 579 00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:04,120 Speaker 1: the Supreme Court is stupid, so like, I don't personally 580 00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:06,920 Speaker 1: give a good goddamn about what the founders intended. Yeah, 581 00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:10,080 Speaker 1: that seems like the weirdest standard to uphold to this 582 00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:12,800 Speaker 1: day where we're just like, well, the Founders intended, and 583 00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:15,600 Speaker 1: it's like the Founders, first of all, none of them 584 00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:17,720 Speaker 1: had teeth. None of them had and it's one of 585 00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:21,239 Speaker 1: those this it's comprehensively wrong because again the rules will 586 00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:23,000 Speaker 1: often be like, well, the Founders would never have wanted 587 00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:24,680 Speaker 1: people to have a R fifteens And it's like, did 588 00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:26,960 Speaker 1: you know some of those guys, A lot of those 589 00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:29,080 Speaker 1: dudes would have been like, this will kill so many more, 590 00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:33,480 Speaker 1: like we should have these They all wore powder powdered 591 00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:36,360 Speaker 1: wigs because they all had like herpes on their heads 592 00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:40,640 Speaker 1: and they you know, they were all syphilitics, so yeah, 593 00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:44,240 Speaker 1: they were insane. Like the Founders wouldn't like that. It's 594 00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:47,040 Speaker 1: like no, no, no no, don't defend the Founders. Well, and 595 00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:48,440 Speaker 1: they would have. They would have liked it for a 596 00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:50,960 Speaker 1: variety of different reasons. Thomas Paine would have liked it 597 00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:54,040 Speaker 1: because it would allow you to shoot government agents much right, 598 00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:56,080 Speaker 1: Like Thomas Jefferson would have liked it because he was 599 00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:58,480 Speaker 1: scared of how many slaves he had, you know, like 600 00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:01,880 Speaker 1: different different people would have liked it for different reasons. 601 00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:07,120 Speaker 1: They love to have that gun, Yes, um. So Obviously, again, 602 00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:11,200 Speaker 1: as regards my personal standing towards gun control, I don't 603 00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:15,000 Speaker 1: care about what the founders thought about anything, including free speech, 604 00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:19,400 Speaker 1: because they didn't actually believe in free speech. Yes, because 605 00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:21,520 Speaker 1: a lot of the moments, well Thomas Paine did again 606 00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:25,680 Speaker 1: I he's he's he's our one, good one. Um he was. 607 00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:29,600 Speaker 1: You know, although kind of in a reactionary during the 608 00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:32,160 Speaker 1: French Revolution. You know, they locked his ass up. They 609 00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:35,400 Speaker 1: did lock his ass up, because they locked a lot 610 00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:37,680 Speaker 1: of people up. They really just kind of went overboard. 611 00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:43,200 Speaker 1: Ums left. So I think it's probably valuable to discuss 612 00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:45,719 Speaker 1: how interpretations of the right to bear arms have varied 613 00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:48,840 Speaker 1: over time, um, in the United States, because again, if 614 00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:51,160 Speaker 1: you're ever saying it's always meant this thing or that thing, 615 00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:54,400 Speaker 1: that's not you're not going to be correct because a 616 00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:56,480 Speaker 1: bunch of different courts have found a bunch of different things. 617 00:31:56,920 --> 00:31:59,800 Speaker 1: So the Bill of Rights was the brainchild of James Madison. 618 00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:02,400 Speaker 1: Uh And in portraits he's the founding father with just 619 00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:05,200 Speaker 1: massive bags under his eyes. Like you look up a 620 00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:08,080 Speaker 1: drawing of this dude. He looks fucking exhausted in every 621 00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:10,120 Speaker 1: and he was every sketch of it. He probably was 622 00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:14,200 Speaker 1: literally dying at all times in his career. He was 623 00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:18,240 Speaker 1: dying all the time. Uh, if only every American political 624 00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:21,360 Speaker 1: leader had followed in his footsteps of dying, you know. 625 00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:25,160 Speaker 1: So he was supposed to write way more of the 626 00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:28,640 Speaker 1: Federalist papers, but he was so sickly couldn't. We are 627 00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:31,760 Speaker 1: getting to that. So obviously he's a he's you know, 628 00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:34,840 Speaker 1: on that side of the federalist anti federalist divide. But 629 00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:37,360 Speaker 1: he drafts the Bill of Rights because the anti federalists 630 00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:40,720 Speaker 1: are worried, and they have a very good point that like, Okay, well, 631 00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:44,400 Speaker 1: we're establishing this supposedly democratic government, but if we don't 632 00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:46,680 Speaker 1: place limits on the powers of the federal government, they 633 00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:48,560 Speaker 1: could get the power to do anything one day, which 634 00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:53,000 Speaker 1: is a very reasonable thing about. Right. Um. Broadly speaking, 635 00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:55,560 Speaker 1: one of the better ideas the founders had was having 636 00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:58,960 Speaker 1: a Bill of rights. Um. So most of them are 637 00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:01,480 Speaker 1: terrified of the idea of a permanent standing army, which 638 00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:03,520 Speaker 1: is also a good thing to be frightened of. And 639 00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:06,000 Speaker 1: if we had stuck with that idea, maybe things would 640 00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:08,680 Speaker 1: be a little bit better. Um. One of the things 641 00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:11,200 Speaker 1: that like, these guys are all ancient Roman history nerds, right, 642 00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:13,120 Speaker 1: and they are well aware that, like the history of 643 00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:16,240 Speaker 1: the Roman Republic includes so many times where just like 644 00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:19,000 Speaker 1: a guy gets an army and takes over, right or 645 00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:21,040 Speaker 1: tries to take over, and there's a big fucking fight 646 00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:24,480 Speaker 1: over it. Um. So they don't like the idea of 647 00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:29,120 Speaker 1: like a big centralized standing army because it's very dangerous. Um. So, 648 00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:32,760 Speaker 1: the Second Amendment was initially drafted to guarantee people's right 649 00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:35,880 Speaker 1: to form a militia. The original text, and this is 650 00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:37,320 Speaker 1: not what's in the Bill of Rights now, but this 651 00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:40,160 Speaker 1: is the original text Madison rights is quote, the right 652 00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:42,080 Speaker 1: of the people to keep in bear arms shall not 653 00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:45,920 Speaker 1: be infringed semicolon, a well armed and well regulated militia 654 00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:49,080 Speaker 1: being the best security of a free country colon. But 655 00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:52,240 Speaker 1: no person religiously scrupulous of bearing arms shall be compelled 656 00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:56,240 Speaker 1: to render military service in person. Now, this is interesting 657 00:33:56,240 --> 00:33:59,920 Speaker 1: because if that had been in the Bill of Rights today, right, 658 00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:02,320 Speaker 1: this would have done a couple of things. Among other things, 659 00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:04,840 Speaker 1: it would probably have made a draft impossible. Rights. That 660 00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:07,800 Speaker 1: second clause is like, you cannot force someone to render 661 00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:10,400 Speaker 1: military service, which, like you would think would make a 662 00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:14,319 Speaker 1: draft impossible. Um. That said, it also might have made 663 00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:16,880 Speaker 1: it impossible to do things that a lot of liberal support, 664 00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:20,080 Speaker 1: like banning weapons like the Air of fifteen, because when 665 00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:22,480 Speaker 1: you have well armed in there, it does kind of 666 00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:26,240 Speaker 1: seem too more specifically endorse heavier firepower than the current 667 00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:29,879 Speaker 1: text of the Second Amendment does. UM. That interpretation could 668 00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:32,120 Speaker 1: at least be argued. Now this is all academic because 669 00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:34,520 Speaker 1: the wording winds up being changed to the present text, 670 00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:37,600 Speaker 1: which puts well regulated up front and fun times also 671 00:34:37,640 --> 00:34:42,640 Speaker 1: makes it legal to draft people. UM. Obviously, people will 672 00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:45,240 Speaker 1: have argued for years and will be arguing for years 673 00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:48,480 Speaker 1: what the Second Amendment should mean about gun control and 674 00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:52,120 Speaker 1: how it should function. I'm not an originalist, UM. I 675 00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:55,920 Speaker 1: think the Constitution is too old for anyone to care about. 676 00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:58,200 Speaker 1: But obviously it does matter because it is the law 677 00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:00,480 Speaker 1: of the land, and how it's written and how interpreted 678 00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:03,040 Speaker 1: has a huge impact on what is legally possible within 679 00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:07,160 Speaker 1: the present situation. UM. And so I think the context 680 00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:10,840 Speaker 1: of how the Second Amendment like was seen at the 681 00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:14,040 Speaker 1: time is helpful to have. UM. Even though again I'm 682 00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:16,560 Speaker 1: not an originalist. Please don't take this as me arguing 683 00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:18,839 Speaker 1: because the founding fathers felt this way this is how 684 00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:23,520 Speaker 1: people should act. But we can stress enough we do 685 00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:28,040 Speaker 1: not care what the founding fathers thought about literally anything. 686 00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:31,040 Speaker 1: My my my stance broadly in support of civilian arms 687 00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:35,520 Speaker 1: ownership has nothing to do with the Constitution, because it's 688 00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:38,799 Speaker 1: a stupid document written a long time. Well again, given 689 00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:41,920 Speaker 1: the time, not a stupid document. Problem better than any way, whatever, 690 00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:44,520 Speaker 1: I don't need to have this conversation. I'm gonna quote 691 00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:46,319 Speaker 1: from the New Yorker here because I think it gives 692 00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:50,680 Speaker 1: some helpful context. None of this, this being the Second Amendment, 693 00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:53,239 Speaker 1: had anything to do with hunting. People who owned and 694 00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:55,560 Speaker 1: used long arms to hunt continue to own and use them. 695 00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:58,359 Speaker 1: The Second Amendment was not commonly understood as having any 696 00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:01,760 Speaker 1: relevance to the shooting of anim As Gary Willis once wrote, 697 00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:05,200 Speaker 1: one does not bear arms against a rabbit. Meanwhile, militias 698 00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:07,799 Speaker 1: continued to muster. The Continental Army was disbanded at the 699 00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:10,080 Speaker 1: end of the Revolutionary War, but the national defense was 700 00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:12,399 Speaker 1: increasingly assumed by the U. S Army. By the middle 701 00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:14,640 Speaker 1: of the nineteenth century, the US had a standing army 702 00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:16,960 Speaker 1: after all. And this is what one of the things 703 00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:21,200 Speaker 1: I think is interesting, because again the kind of especially 704 00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:23,279 Speaker 1: on Twitter, common takes on one side or the other 705 00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:26,560 Speaker 1: this is that like, well, you don't need these guns 706 00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:29,319 Speaker 1: for hunting, which is obviously the intent of the Second Amente, 707 00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:32,200 Speaker 1: which no, it's absolutely not. But at the same time, 708 00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:34,719 Speaker 1: the idea of the Second Amendment as referring to an 709 00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:38,920 Speaker 1: individual's ability to stockpile an arsenal is not really accurate 710 00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:41,360 Speaker 1: because it was within the context of a militia. However, 711 00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:44,760 Speaker 1: if you're bringing that up, it's one of the things 712 00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:47,520 Speaker 1: that they meant by Like, one of the things that 713 00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:50,520 Speaker 1: the Founding Fathers wanted with this militia was for it 714 00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:53,640 Speaker 1: to be the primary method of defending the country, as 715 00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:56,200 Speaker 1: opposed to a massive standing army. So again, if you 716 00:36:56,239 --> 00:36:58,480 Speaker 1: are if you are one for one reason or the other, 717 00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:00,160 Speaker 1: if you're arguing that we should do things, is the 718 00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:03,239 Speaker 1: way the Founding Fathers argued, probably the most accurate thing 719 00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:06,440 Speaker 1: would be to limit civilian arms ownership outside of the 720 00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:08,880 Speaker 1: context of a militia, and also ensure that the militia 721 00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:11,400 Speaker 1: is the only armed force in the country, including police, 722 00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:14,920 Speaker 1: so that like a massive civilian militia is the only 723 00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:18,560 Speaker 1: armed force. There's no federal power to deploy a massive 724 00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:21,680 Speaker 1: military and there's not really federal policing in any meaningful way, 725 00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:23,879 Speaker 1: because that's how things were in the eighteen hundreds, right 726 00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:28,040 Speaker 1: if you're seventeen, If you're arguing that, that's probably closer 727 00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:32,040 Speaker 1: to an originalist interpretation than anything being argued right now, 728 00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:34,719 Speaker 1: Which is not to say that that makes much sense 729 00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:36,640 Speaker 1: in the current day at all, although I would argue 730 00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:40,080 Speaker 1: there's a number of you could look at, like what 731 00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:43,440 Speaker 1: Switzerland does, right which is often brought up by Second 732 00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:45,880 Speaker 1: Amendment advocates. Do they do? I don't even know what 733 00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:50,440 Speaker 1: Switzerland has. Like Basically, if you want to own a 734 00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:54,040 Speaker 1: weapon in Switzerland, the government will give you one, but 735 00:37:54,120 --> 00:37:56,239 Speaker 1: like there's training and you're part of a militia to 736 00:37:56,239 --> 00:37:59,400 Speaker 1: get it. It is a military assault rifle, right um. 737 00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:02,960 Speaker 1: And a out of Switzerland's are The percentage of Swiss 738 00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:05,200 Speaker 1: people who own guns is not significant compared to the 739 00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:07,480 Speaker 1: United States, but it's one of the highest in the world. Right. 740 00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:10,319 Speaker 1: But it does come as you don't it's not well, 741 00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:12,520 Speaker 1: you can buy some arms in Switzerland. It's not like 742 00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:16,120 Speaker 1: you're not like just stockpiling guns for your own personal thing. 743 00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:18,880 Speaker 1: You are being armed by the state as part of 744 00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:22,840 Speaker 1: the state's defense apparatus, right um. But also not in 745 00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:25,520 Speaker 1: a way like the Swiss, Like the civilians who own 746 00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:28,680 Speaker 1: guns in Switzerland are not like deployed for obviously Switzerland, 747 00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:33,839 Speaker 1: right they don't. Um, But anyway, I mean, like this 748 00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:35,880 Speaker 1: is again when I talk about like ro Java, and 749 00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:38,360 Speaker 1: like what I think about in terms of the value 750 00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:40,640 Speaker 1: of the state not having a monopoly on the use 751 00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:43,000 Speaker 1: of force. These are some of the things that I 752 00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:47,560 Speaker 1: think about broadly speaking. You know, stuff has been different 753 00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:52,040 Speaker 1: about the Second Amende um, and and kind of as 754 00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:57,680 Speaker 1: a result, the Second Amendment, as heavily politicized as it 755 00:38:57,719 --> 00:39:00,160 Speaker 1: is now, was kind of like nobody it was like 756 00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:02,720 Speaker 1: the Third Amendment, Right, nobody talks about that anymore. Nobody 757 00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:05,640 Speaker 1: fucking talked about the Second Amendment on a national level 758 00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:09,200 Speaker 1: for like a century or so. Right, we talked about 759 00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:12,080 Speaker 1: like gun control earlier, but it was basically all state level, right, 760 00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:14,720 Speaker 1: Different states, different cities would have like different rules based 761 00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:18,200 Speaker 1: on ship that was happening there. Um, the federal government 762 00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:21,440 Speaker 1: left them alone. Like, there was not really any kind 763 00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:24,279 Speaker 1: of federal interest in regulating the Second Amendment until the 764 00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:26,719 Speaker 1: early nineteen thirties. And that is when we get our 765 00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:30,759 Speaker 1: first major piece of national gun control legislation. Now the 766 00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:33,920 Speaker 1: n f A or National Firearms Act was a response 767 00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:37,040 Speaker 1: to the era of the gangster. Right. Um. In particular, 768 00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:40,400 Speaker 1: you get this weapon starting in like I don't know 769 00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:42,200 Speaker 1: exactly when it was invented, I could have looked it up, 770 00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:45,359 Speaker 1: but like, it becomes popular in the thirties, the Tommy gun, right, 771 00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:50,520 Speaker 1: which is the Thompson submachine gun. And it is broadly speaking, 772 00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:52,480 Speaker 1: kind of like at least in terms of the way 773 00:39:52,520 --> 00:39:54,319 Speaker 1: it's interpreted by the media and the way it's used 774 00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:55,960 Speaker 1: in crime, kind of like the a R fifteen of 775 00:39:55,960 --> 00:39:59,120 Speaker 1: its day, because it is Thompson. It's an automatic forty 776 00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:01,520 Speaker 1: five caliber weapon. It's a submachine gun, right, so it's 777 00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:04,239 Speaker 1: not like a full sized rifle. Um. This will be 778 00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:07,040 Speaker 1: one of the most popular squad weapons that the United 779 00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:10,040 Speaker 1: States uses in World War Two. Right, A very effective 780 00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:11,920 Speaker 1: weapon for what it does, which is shoot a lot 781 00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:15,560 Speaker 1: of big, heavy, slow bullets very quickly um at people 782 00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:19,800 Speaker 1: at close range. So super good if you're, for example, 783 00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:21,879 Speaker 1: a gangster who wants to murder a bunch of people 784 00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:24,040 Speaker 1: in a in an enclosed room. Right, if you like, 785 00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:25,960 Speaker 1: finding a bunch of other gangsters up against the wall, 786 00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:28,320 Speaker 1: you can kill a shipload of people with a Tommy. 787 00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:32,240 Speaker 1: Very fun for you know, pulling off some sort of St. 788 00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:37,320 Speaker 1: Valentine's latible bank robbing weapon. Great for all sorts of stuff, 789 00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:42,680 Speaker 1: going to the local gobba guelery and shooting exactly. Um, 790 00:40:42,719 --> 00:40:44,319 Speaker 1: you could gobba a hell of a lot of gool 791 00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:48,960 Speaker 1: with this lot. It's it's nowadays, honestly not that impressive 792 00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:52,319 Speaker 1: of a weapon. Um, But at the time, right, like 793 00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:55,000 Speaker 1: prior to this, most Americans like their experience with this, 794 00:40:55,160 --> 00:40:58,359 Speaker 1: like single shot rifles and and lever action guns and 795 00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:01,480 Speaker 1: like revolvers and ship right, even semi automatic handguns are 796 00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:05,520 Speaker 1: pretty new and fancy in the thirties. Um, the Thompson 797 00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:09,840 Speaker 1: is just so much deadlier than anything else, and the 798 00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:12,840 Speaker 1: crimes that get committed with it, again, as with the 799 00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:16,480 Speaker 1: Air fifteen, unlike a national scale, very little gun crime 800 00:41:16,600 --> 00:41:19,319 Speaker 1: involves the Thompson sub machine gun. And again the the 801 00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:22,440 Speaker 1: Air fifteen not the most common gun used in crime 802 00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:25,360 Speaker 1: by any like, It's not super common compared to a 803 00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:27,640 Speaker 1: lot of other kinds of firearm. But the crimes that 804 00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:31,719 Speaker 1: it's used in are so spectacular and and kind of 805 00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:35,640 Speaker 1: like horrifying that they shocked the nation. And law enforcement 806 00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:37,840 Speaker 1: gets nuts about this because one of the things that 807 00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:39,920 Speaker 1: gangsters do with Tommy guns is shoot lots of police 808 00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:44,000 Speaker 1: officers with them. Um. So there's a whole kind of 809 00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:47,880 Speaker 1: America's first panic over a gun, right is what happens 810 00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:50,200 Speaker 1: with the Tommy gun in the thirties. Um. And it's 811 00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:52,160 Speaker 1: not just the Tommy gun. They're also freaking out about 812 00:41:52,160 --> 00:41:55,759 Speaker 1: sought off shotguns, which is actually pretty dumb. They're only 813 00:41:55,760 --> 00:41:59,120 Speaker 1: scared about them because you can like them, hide them, 814 00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:01,560 Speaker 1: but they're they're not even like anyway, it's dumb for 815 00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:04,440 Speaker 1: sawt off shotguns to be regulated more than regular shotguns. 816 00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:09,000 Speaker 1: They're actually less deadly, um but whatever they look and 817 00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:10,759 Speaker 1: then and that you see them a lot in the 818 00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:13,480 Speaker 1: hands of gangsters. Right. So it's again there's this part 819 00:42:13,520 --> 00:42:15,200 Speaker 1: of this is that like, yeah, the Thompson is a 820 00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:18,000 Speaker 1: lot deadlier than guns that had been available before. But 821 00:42:18,080 --> 00:42:20,480 Speaker 1: part of it's also just like there's this media sort 822 00:42:20,520 --> 00:42:23,480 Speaker 1: of panic around the Thompson. Um. And by the way, 823 00:42:23,480 --> 00:42:24,920 Speaker 1: I should note at this period of time, if you 824 00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:28,279 Speaker 1: want to Thompson, you right to Sears and they mail 825 00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:31,799 Speaker 1: one to your house. Like this is not there are 826 00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:33,560 Speaker 1: not like you don't have to go to a gun storey, 827 00:42:33,560 --> 00:42:35,879 Speaker 1: you don't do it they're like background checks, like they 828 00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:37,799 Speaker 1: just will send it to you. It's like if you 829 00:42:37,920 --> 00:42:40,160 Speaker 1: order like a book on Amazon. It was that easy 830 00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:44,040 Speaker 1: to get Thompson submachine gun. UM. So the n f 831 00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:47,120 Speaker 1: A puts an endo that UM. It heavily restricts the 832 00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:52,000 Speaker 1: ownership of machine guns, sawed off shotguns, and silencers. UM. 833 00:42:52,040 --> 00:42:54,160 Speaker 1: Now the n r A is again not a political 834 00:42:54,280 --> 00:42:57,360 Speaker 1: organization at this point. It does initially oppose the n 835 00:42:57,440 --> 00:42:59,359 Speaker 1: f A, and this is kind of the first time 836 00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:02,760 Speaker 1: it gets polit iCal. UM. The organization writes a descent 837 00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:06,040 Speaker 1: in their magazine, American Rifleman UM. And this is a 838 00:43:06,040 --> 00:43:10,200 Speaker 1: pretty like tamely phrased descent, and it prompts congressional leaders 839 00:43:10,239 --> 00:43:11,640 Speaker 1: to sit down with the n r A and work 840 00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:13,960 Speaker 1: to limit their bill. UM. The main thing that it 841 00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:16,160 Speaker 1: does is that like it stops the band from being 842 00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:19,560 Speaker 1: total UM. So rich people can still get machine guns, 843 00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:22,440 Speaker 1: guns and silences right. Well, and we could tell I, 844 00:43:22,520 --> 00:43:25,720 Speaker 1: I could rant about silencers, which are not what people 845 00:43:25,719 --> 00:43:28,719 Speaker 1: tend to think. They're not silent, they're not silent. UM. 846 00:43:28,760 --> 00:43:30,560 Speaker 1: All of these things are still legal if you have 847 00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:32,640 Speaker 1: the money. Right in the case of like a silencer 848 00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:34,960 Speaker 1: or a what's called a short periold shotgun. It takes 849 00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:37,000 Speaker 1: like a two tax stamp in a couple of months. 850 00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:39,920 Speaker 1: It's technically like a similar legal process to get a 851 00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:42,480 Speaker 1: machine gun, but machine guns cost the cheapest machine guns 852 00:43:42,520 --> 00:43:45,080 Speaker 1: today are like ten dollars. So it's that's why you 853 00:43:45,120 --> 00:43:49,160 Speaker 1: don't see them like used in crimes. Um. Yeah, I 854 00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:52,759 Speaker 1: don't know what a machine gun is. An a R 855 00:43:52,840 --> 00:43:55,640 Speaker 1: fifteen is a semi automatic gun. The legal definition of 856 00:43:55,640 --> 00:43:57,400 Speaker 1: of a machine gun is a weapon that will fire 857 00:43:57,480 --> 00:44:00,319 Speaker 1: more than one bullet per trigger. Poll. Right, this is 858 00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:02,680 Speaker 1: all very wonky because like we had bump stocks a 859 00:44:02,680 --> 00:44:06,279 Speaker 1: while ago, which function more or less as a machine gun, 860 00:44:06,360 --> 00:44:09,919 Speaker 1: but legally weren't technically a machine gun. There's a couple 861 00:44:09,960 --> 00:44:12,680 Speaker 1: of weird kinds of triggers you can as with anything 862 00:44:12,680 --> 00:44:15,640 Speaker 1: with guns, because when you like, when you make a 863 00:44:15,719 --> 00:44:17,799 Speaker 1: law to ban a thing, you have to specify what 864 00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:20,520 Speaker 1: that thing is in mechanical terms, and so you find 865 00:44:20,560 --> 00:44:22,399 Speaker 1: a way to people do this with drugs too, where 866 00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:24,319 Speaker 1: it's like, okay, they banded m d M. A, let's 867 00:44:24,360 --> 00:44:26,319 Speaker 1: make a drug that affects the same parts of the 868 00:44:26,360 --> 00:44:31,200 Speaker 1: brain but doesn't like isn't explicitly banned, right, different Yeah, Um, 869 00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:33,000 Speaker 1: and the same thing happens. Now there are sought off 870 00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:37,920 Speaker 1: shotguns that aren't legally shotguns because of very anyway, whatever. Um, 871 00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:40,279 Speaker 1: this is getting off of the point a bit. But 872 00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:43,279 Speaker 1: the n r A works with it works with Congress. Right, 873 00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:46,560 Speaker 1: they don't do like a big political brujaha. They're like, hey, 874 00:44:46,760 --> 00:44:48,560 Speaker 1: we want to make sure that rich people can still 875 00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:50,839 Speaker 1: own these weapons. Let's let's sit down and work some 876 00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:53,439 Speaker 1: things out. And Congress is happy to work with them. Now, 877 00:44:53,560 --> 00:44:57,120 Speaker 1: some people in Congress are the Attorney General claims that 878 00:44:57,160 --> 00:45:00,279 Speaker 1: they emasculate the bill. But broadly speaking, then f A 879 00:45:01,719 --> 00:45:05,080 Speaker 1: seriously limits the types of weapons that civilians are allowed 880 00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:06,440 Speaker 1: to have, and this is the first time anyone had 881 00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:08,320 Speaker 1: done that at the federal level. And the n r 882 00:45:08,360 --> 00:45:10,319 Speaker 1: A is pretty happy with the resulting bill, and they 883 00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:14,000 Speaker 1: endorse the nineteen n f A. Now, there was still 884 00:45:14,120 --> 00:45:17,320 Speaker 1: no real like massive national discussion of the Second Amendment 885 00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:20,839 Speaker 1: as an individual right in this period. Um, not that 886 00:45:20,880 --> 00:45:25,080 Speaker 1: it was like particularly discussed much at all. Um, this 887 00:45:25,160 --> 00:45:29,840 Speaker 1: is just not super constitutionally uh controversial in the period 888 00:45:29,880 --> 00:45:32,200 Speaker 1: of time. It's not yet part of the culture war. 889 00:45:32,560 --> 00:45:36,000 Speaker 1: Yeah it has, Yeah, that hasn't really evolved yet. Um. 890 00:45:36,040 --> 00:45:38,719 Speaker 1: The context, the discussion of the Second Amendment as an 891 00:45:38,760 --> 00:45:41,439 Speaker 1: individual right to bear arms doesn't really start to take 892 00:45:41,440 --> 00:45:44,319 Speaker 1: off until the early nineteen sixties. Uh. And this is 893 00:45:44,320 --> 00:45:48,120 Speaker 1: when the very first law review articles arguing an individualist 894 00:45:48,160 --> 00:45:51,960 Speaker 1: interpretation are published. Now, this period coincides with the Civil 895 00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:54,760 Speaker 1: rights movement and the second big push for gun control 896 00:45:54,760 --> 00:45:58,680 Speaker 1: in federal history. This time rather than well, racism and 897 00:45:58,719 --> 00:46:00,440 Speaker 1: crime have a role to plays will just gus. But 898 00:46:00,480 --> 00:46:02,239 Speaker 1: one of the first things that sets it off is 899 00:46:02,239 --> 00:46:06,640 Speaker 1: the assassination of President John F. Kennedy. Um. Famously, John F. 900 00:46:06,719 --> 00:46:09,560 Speaker 1: Kennedy is assassinated by Bernard Sanders using a man Luker 901 00:46:09,640 --> 00:46:12,320 Speaker 1: Carcano rifle that he'd ordered from a classified ad in 902 00:46:12,360 --> 00:46:15,200 Speaker 1: the American Rifleman magazine, which is the n ra's magazine. 903 00:46:15,560 --> 00:46:17,560 Speaker 1: So the gun that kills GfK is ordered from the 904 00:46:17,560 --> 00:46:21,040 Speaker 1: back of a magazine, right, Um. And this is it's 905 00:46:21,080 --> 00:46:23,399 Speaker 1: not again, He's not killed with like anything you would 906 00:46:23,400 --> 00:46:26,759 Speaker 1: consider an assault weapon. It's like an old bolt action rifle. Um. 907 00:46:26,840 --> 00:46:28,560 Speaker 1: But the fact that he was able to get it 908 00:46:28,600 --> 00:46:32,560 Speaker 1: from like a magazine ad becomes like and like, you know, again, 909 00:46:32,600 --> 00:46:36,600 Speaker 1: background checks are not really a thing yet. Um. And 910 00:46:36,640 --> 00:46:40,120 Speaker 1: that's uh. That that makes a lot of people very angry, 911 00:46:40,280 --> 00:46:43,120 Speaker 1: and I a quote now from an article by Elena 912 00:46:43,239 --> 00:46:47,360 Speaker 1: Savadra Buckley quote. For years prior to Kennedy's assassination, America 913 00:46:47,400 --> 00:46:49,400 Speaker 1: had been watching television and learning how to shoot. In 914 00:46:49,400 --> 00:46:52,200 Speaker 1: the nineteen fifties, when Hollywood studios were churning out Western's 915 00:46:52,200 --> 00:46:54,840 Speaker 1: Popular Science estimated that half a million Americans had started 916 00:46:54,920 --> 00:46:56,960 Speaker 1: quick draws shooting for fun, and by the end of 917 00:46:56,960 --> 00:47:00,239 Speaker 1: the decade, three thousand Western style guns were selling per week, 918 00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:02,400 Speaker 1: according to Frank Smith and his book The n r A, 919 00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:05,840 Speaker 1: The Unauthorized History. At the same time, accidental gun wounds 920 00:47:05,840 --> 00:47:07,480 Speaker 1: and deaths were on the rise, and three out of 921 00:47:07,520 --> 00:47:10,320 Speaker 1: four Americans supported stricter gun control measures. As a result, 922 00:47:10,560 --> 00:47:12,600 Speaker 1: the n r A braced itself for new legislation in 923 00:47:12,600 --> 00:47:15,239 Speaker 1: the early nineteen sixties, sprinkling the first references to the 924 00:47:15,280 --> 00:47:19,080 Speaker 1: Second Amendment in American Rifleman. Eight months after Kennedy died. 925 00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:21,720 Speaker 1: The magazine had even added a new statement to its masthead. 926 00:47:21,960 --> 00:47:23,560 Speaker 1: The strength of the n r A, and therefore the 927 00:47:23,600 --> 00:47:27,000 Speaker 1: ability to accomplish its objects and purposes, depends entirely upon 928 00:47:27,000 --> 00:47:29,200 Speaker 1: the support of loyal Americans who believe in the right 929 00:47:29,280 --> 00:47:31,880 Speaker 1: to keep and bear arms. And a lot of this 930 00:47:31,960 --> 00:47:34,719 Speaker 1: push is coming at the direction of Harlan Carter, who 931 00:47:34,719 --> 00:47:37,200 Speaker 1: writes stuff for American Rifleman and who is a big 932 00:47:37,200 --> 00:47:39,400 Speaker 1: believer that the the n r A needs to be 933 00:47:39,480 --> 00:47:45,560 Speaker 1: a Second Amendment advocacy organization. Yeah, and that's again, that's 934 00:47:45,640 --> 00:47:48,080 Speaker 1: different from what they had always been pro gun because 935 00:47:48,080 --> 00:47:50,759 Speaker 1: obviously the n r A right, But when when you 936 00:47:50,840 --> 00:47:53,359 Speaker 1: look at what they're doing in thirty four that they're 937 00:47:53,400 --> 00:47:56,480 Speaker 1: not advocating for the Second Amendment. They're advocating for what 938 00:47:56,560 --> 00:47:59,279 Speaker 1: they see as sportsman right, and obviously there's problems with that. 939 00:47:59,360 --> 00:48:01,879 Speaker 1: It's based heavily on like the desire of rich people 940 00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:05,239 Speaker 1: to be heavily armed. But they're they're arguing for sportsmen 941 00:48:05,360 --> 00:48:08,279 Speaker 1: as opposed to Carter wants to turn it into an 942 00:48:08,280 --> 00:48:12,279 Speaker 1: advocacy organization for this thing. This this this idea of 943 00:48:12,320 --> 00:48:14,279 Speaker 1: the Second Amendment. And when you do something like that, 944 00:48:14,360 --> 00:48:16,680 Speaker 1: number one, if you if you kind of are an 945 00:48:16,760 --> 00:48:19,040 Speaker 1: essential list and you claim that this is like there's 946 00:48:19,040 --> 00:48:22,799 Speaker 1: this kind of inherent, timeless, essential interpretation of this rule, 947 00:48:22,960 --> 00:48:26,480 Speaker 1: and that's your guiding light, there's not any ability to 948 00:48:26,520 --> 00:48:28,480 Speaker 1: compromise there, right, Like you have to be kind of 949 00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:31,400 Speaker 1: a fundamentalist about it. It doesn't matter if a president 950 00:48:31,480 --> 00:48:35,520 Speaker 1: was just smirked in front of everyone in Dallas. Yes, yes, 951 00:48:35,560 --> 00:48:39,840 Speaker 1: you have the laws, the law, and this is uh, 952 00:48:39,960 --> 00:48:42,920 Speaker 1: you know, this is my interpretation of it. And and 953 00:48:42,920 --> 00:48:47,200 Speaker 1: and Carter understands. Again he's a very smart guy. What 954 00:48:47,280 --> 00:48:49,560 Speaker 1: he'd done with the border patrol shows he understands how 955 00:48:49,560 --> 00:48:54,600 Speaker 1: the media works. He understands how to advocate for white 956 00:48:54,600 --> 00:48:59,160 Speaker 1: supremacy without advocating for white supremacy, right, Um, And so 957 00:48:59,200 --> 00:49:00,879 Speaker 1: he knows that it's not just enough to like say 958 00:49:00,920 --> 00:49:03,120 Speaker 1: that you support gun ownership. And I'm going to continue 959 00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:05,719 Speaker 1: with a quote from Buckley here. In order for there 960 00:49:05,719 --> 00:49:07,640 Speaker 1: to be good guys with guns, there had to be 961 00:49:07,680 --> 00:49:10,680 Speaker 1: an opposing force to the n r A and many lawmakers. 962 00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:14,919 Speaker 1: That opposing force was usually black. Now this gets into 963 00:49:14,960 --> 00:49:16,920 Speaker 1: the aspect of the gun control plash again. There's an 964 00:49:16,920 --> 00:49:19,560 Speaker 1: aspect that's just based in these assassinations that's not at 965 00:49:19,600 --> 00:49:22,120 Speaker 1: all based in racism. And then there's an aspect that's 966 00:49:22,160 --> 00:49:25,960 Speaker 1: based on the Watts riots. So in nineteen sixty five, um, 967 00:49:26,200 --> 00:49:28,560 Speaker 1: the l A p D beats a black man named 968 00:49:28,600 --> 00:49:31,440 Speaker 1: Marquette Fry with a baton during a traffic stop and 969 00:49:31,680 --> 00:49:35,520 Speaker 1: protests erupt um. It becomes an insurrection um and spreads 970 00:49:35,520 --> 00:49:38,200 Speaker 1: throughout the country. The military is eventually called in to 971 00:49:38,280 --> 00:49:40,799 Speaker 1: augment and overwhelmed l a p D. This is part 972 00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:43,600 Speaker 1: of what jump starts the War on Crime, a period 973 00:49:43,719 --> 00:49:47,239 Speaker 1: of largely racist gun or crime bills that culminate with 974 00:49:47,239 --> 00:49:49,680 Speaker 1: the whole super predator panic that Biden is famous for. 975 00:49:49,960 --> 00:49:52,600 Speaker 1: And the n r A huge supporters of crime bills. 976 00:49:52,800 --> 00:49:56,080 Speaker 1: Anti gun control support crime bills. Right, So you see 977 00:49:56,120 --> 00:49:58,440 Speaker 1: what what they're doing here is you have some folks, 978 00:49:58,480 --> 00:50:01,040 Speaker 1: because people are during the watch right, it's using guns 979 00:50:01,080 --> 00:50:03,239 Speaker 1: to fight the l a p D. And so there 980 00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:07,120 Speaker 1: are like and this this is kind of there's there's pushes. 981 00:50:07,160 --> 00:50:09,319 Speaker 1: This is what starts. Some of the momentum for gun 982 00:50:09,360 --> 00:50:12,359 Speaker 1: control in California comes from this. But more than that, 983 00:50:12,400 --> 00:50:14,520 Speaker 1: with the n r A looks at is they see 984 00:50:15,120 --> 00:50:18,279 Speaker 1: these armed black people carrying out an uprising and they're like, well, 985 00:50:19,480 --> 00:50:22,560 Speaker 1: we can take away focus on on guns and on 986 00:50:22,680 --> 00:50:28,360 Speaker 1: legislating guns by focusing on legislating to criminalize black people, right, 987 00:50:28,760 --> 00:50:32,040 Speaker 1: And that's what Harlan Carter realizes, like, well, this is something, 988 00:50:32,120 --> 00:50:33,799 Speaker 1: this is the business the n r a needs to 989 00:50:33,840 --> 00:50:37,600 Speaker 1: be in and also like this is the business of 990 00:50:37,640 --> 00:50:40,560 Speaker 1: like arming the police, arguing that like because that's where 991 00:50:41,080 --> 00:50:42,960 Speaker 1: you know, that's where the good guy with a gun 992 00:50:43,040 --> 00:50:45,799 Speaker 1: argument starts, right, the idea that like you need to 993 00:50:46,120 --> 00:50:48,279 Speaker 1: the police need to have more and more weapons to 994 00:50:48,320 --> 00:50:52,600 Speaker 1: deal with today's like dangerous, heavily criminals. Right yeah. And 995 00:50:52,600 --> 00:50:56,439 Speaker 1: and also the you know, guns don't kill people. Uh, 996 00:50:56,480 --> 00:50:59,480 Speaker 1: this racial group that I do not like, yes, yes, yes, 997 00:50:59,520 --> 00:51:01,520 Speaker 1: which is you still see made today there's just a 998 00:51:01,520 --> 00:51:04,880 Speaker 1: fucking Republican UM congressional candidate who was arguing that, like, 999 00:51:05,200 --> 00:51:07,600 Speaker 1: America doesn't have a gun violence problem, black people have 1000 00:51:07,640 --> 00:51:10,920 Speaker 1: a something like that, right, Like, this is an old argument, 1001 00:51:10,920 --> 00:51:13,080 Speaker 1: and Harlon Carter is the one who first figures out 1002 00:51:13,080 --> 00:51:16,560 Speaker 1: how to make it right. Um, So, two years after 1003 00:51:16,560 --> 00:51:18,839 Speaker 1: the Watts Riots, the members of the Black Panther Party 1004 00:51:18,880 --> 00:51:22,359 Speaker 1: start assembling and openly carrying firearms, which is lawful at 1005 00:51:22,360 --> 00:51:23,840 Speaker 1: the time. They would have assemble with guns, and they 1006 00:51:23,840 --> 00:51:26,480 Speaker 1: would audit police during traffic stops to ensure that cops 1007 00:51:26,480 --> 00:51:29,680 Speaker 1: did not abuse members of the public. One could argue 1008 00:51:30,080 --> 00:51:33,440 Speaker 1: this is in some ways closer to an originalist interpretation 1009 00:51:33,480 --> 00:51:37,839 Speaker 1: of the Second Amendment than anything today. Um. Now their 1010 00:51:37,920 --> 00:51:41,880 Speaker 1: activism scares the fuck out of white people and again 1011 00:51:42,600 --> 00:51:48,040 Speaker 1: white people who are uh not pro gun right. Um. 1012 00:51:48,080 --> 00:51:51,320 Speaker 1: And we're gonna we're gonna chat about all of that. Um. 1013 00:51:51,360 --> 00:51:54,319 Speaker 1: And we're gonna chat about my favorite president, Matt, I know, 1014 00:51:54,400 --> 00:51:58,600 Speaker 1: your favorite president, Ronald Reagan, star of Bedtime for Bonzo 1015 00:51:59,400 --> 00:52:04,640 Speaker 1: um so are a monkey movie? Yeah, those McCarthy hearing. 1016 00:52:05,000 --> 00:52:07,839 Speaker 1: We we we owed Ronald Reagan a lot, including the 1017 00:52:07,840 --> 00:52:10,680 Speaker 1: beginning of the career of my favorite musician, John Hinckley Jr. 1018 00:52:13,120 --> 00:52:16,400 Speaker 1: You gotta get his mixtapes. I like his early stuff better, 1019 00:52:16,440 --> 00:52:19,160 Speaker 1: but he's still really creaking, creaking out some solid things. 1020 00:52:19,239 --> 00:52:24,480 Speaker 1: You know, his early stuff is. Yeah, his early stuff unbelievable, unbelievable. 1021 00:52:24,680 --> 00:52:36,239 Speaker 1: Just number one with a bullet. Here's here's here's our Atsuh, 1022 00:52:36,400 --> 00:52:39,960 Speaker 1: we're back. And you know, I just wanted to give 1023 00:52:40,000 --> 00:52:44,000 Speaker 1: a special statement from our sponsors that they completely support 1024 00:52:44,080 --> 00:52:48,560 Speaker 1: the career of John Hinckley Jr. Um. And uh, I 1025 00:52:48,560 --> 00:52:53,680 Speaker 1: don't know. So you're shaking your head. Probably shouldn't. Probably 1026 00:52:53,680 --> 00:52:58,520 Speaker 1: not good. It's a boring bit. You think it's boring. 1027 00:52:58,840 --> 00:53:02,520 Speaker 1: The John Hinckley Jr. Is making a comeback to her now, yeah, 1028 00:53:02,560 --> 00:53:07,000 Speaker 1: he's touring and he's naing it. M hm. He's got 1029 00:53:07,000 --> 00:53:11,280 Speaker 1: a guitar, and it says, this machine almost kills fashion 1030 00:53:11,880 --> 00:53:15,760 Speaker 1: keep pretty close to killing a fascist. This machine's shot 1031 00:53:15,840 --> 00:53:19,360 Speaker 1: the sight of an armored limousine with and it bounced 1032 00:53:19,400 --> 00:53:25,600 Speaker 1: and managed to penetrate a fascist chest cavity. This machine 1033 00:53:25,640 --> 00:53:29,279 Speaker 1: loves Jodie Foster and almost. Yeah, this machine heads. It 1034 00:53:29,400 --> 00:53:33,480 Speaker 1: was very creepy. She did say she was impressed. She 1035 00:53:33,520 --> 00:53:38,719 Speaker 1: should be. I mean it is impressive, right, yeah, I 1036 00:53:38,719 --> 00:53:42,359 Speaker 1: don't know, mixed bag whatever, it was probably enough. John 1037 00:53:42,400 --> 00:53:47,920 Speaker 1: Hinckley Jr. Jokes Look, he did he did shoot Ronald Reagan. 1038 00:53:48,080 --> 00:53:57,480 Speaker 1: He did unarguably. Yeah. So uh so you get the 1039 00:53:57,480 --> 00:54:00,040 Speaker 1: Black Panthers start assembling with guns in public, and that 1040 00:54:00,120 --> 00:54:03,320 Speaker 1: scares the ship out of both kind of the progressive 1041 00:54:03,360 --> 00:54:07,680 Speaker 1: liberal crowd in California and conservatives in California, and so 1042 00:54:08,040 --> 00:54:11,200 Speaker 1: all of California gets on board the idea of banning 1043 00:54:11,239 --> 00:54:14,600 Speaker 1: the open carry of firearms UM, and the n r 1044 00:54:14,680 --> 00:54:19,040 Speaker 1: A happily endorses the measure. UM the Black Panthers a 1045 00:54:19,080 --> 00:54:21,799 Speaker 1: symbol with their guns in the capital on one of 1046 00:54:21,800 --> 00:54:23,719 Speaker 1: the last days it would remain legal to do so. 1047 00:54:24,080 --> 00:54:27,120 Speaker 1: It's described in local news as an invasion, even though 1048 00:54:27,120 --> 00:54:30,279 Speaker 1: again it was people legally protesting in a way that 1049 00:54:30,320 --> 00:54:36,000 Speaker 1: was not again whatever that the same you know, like 1050 00:54:36,560 --> 00:54:41,080 Speaker 1: white wackadoos do now. But again, fucking Harlan Carter totally 1051 00:54:41,120 --> 00:54:43,680 Speaker 1: on board with criminalizing this as is again Ronald Reagan 1052 00:54:43,920 --> 00:54:46,640 Speaker 1: is the governor at the governor of California. Reagan's totally 1053 00:54:46,680 --> 00:54:50,040 Speaker 1: against uh so, yeah, some of these guys get arrested 1054 00:54:50,200 --> 00:54:53,240 Speaker 1: during their protests in Sacramento as they are handcuffed. Bobby 1055 00:54:53,360 --> 00:54:56,440 Speaker 1: Seal read from their executive mandate, which protested quote the 1056 00:54:56,560 --> 00:55:00,319 Speaker 1: racist California legislature which is now considering legislation aimed keeping 1057 00:55:00,320 --> 00:55:04,279 Speaker 1: black people disarmed and powerless. The measure passed, UM, and 1058 00:55:04,320 --> 00:55:06,719 Speaker 1: it laid the groundwork for the extensive gun control that 1059 00:55:06,800 --> 00:55:09,759 Speaker 1: the state of California now in joys to this day. 1060 00:55:09,760 --> 00:55:13,359 Speaker 1: Those laws primarily impact poor black people. UM. Rich white 1061 00:55:13,400 --> 00:55:18,279 Speaker 1: folks can acquire concealed weapon permits very easily. UM. You 1062 00:55:18,360 --> 00:55:19,759 Speaker 1: just have to be able to have a second home 1063 00:55:19,760 --> 00:55:21,520 Speaker 1: in a place like San Bernardino, and you can get 1064 00:55:21,520 --> 00:55:23,359 Speaker 1: the license to carry a concealed gun in the state 1065 00:55:23,400 --> 00:55:27,239 Speaker 1: of California. UM. They can also purchase So California, one 1066 00:55:27,280 --> 00:55:30,560 Speaker 1: of the things that they have is a a handgun roster, right, so, 1067 00:55:30,719 --> 00:55:32,840 Speaker 1: the only handguns you can buy in the state of 1068 00:55:32,880 --> 00:55:35,640 Speaker 1: California are specifically ones that have been approved from the state. 1069 00:55:36,239 --> 00:55:39,759 Speaker 1: Um However, you can bring handguns into the state if 1070 00:55:39,760 --> 00:55:41,640 Speaker 1: you move there, as long as they they don't have 1071 00:55:41,680 --> 00:55:43,600 Speaker 1: an illegal you know, as long as you don't bring 1072 00:55:43,719 --> 00:55:45,759 Speaker 1: magazines with higher than a ten round capacity, you can 1073 00:55:45,800 --> 00:55:48,000 Speaker 1: bring those into the state and then you can have them, 1074 00:55:48,160 --> 00:55:50,360 Speaker 1: or you can sell them to people through inn FFL. 1075 00:55:50,800 --> 00:55:53,399 Speaker 1: And if you're a police officer, you can buy any 1076 00:55:53,480 --> 00:55:55,160 Speaker 1: kind of gun you want and you can sell it 1077 00:55:55,200 --> 00:55:57,640 Speaker 1: to whoever you want. So there is a massive industry 1078 00:55:57,640 --> 00:56:01,080 Speaker 1: in California of police officers selling handguns to people that 1079 00:56:01,120 --> 00:56:03,680 Speaker 1: are illegal in the state of California to buy unless 1080 00:56:03,680 --> 00:56:05,719 Speaker 1: a police officer sells them to you for twice the 1081 00:56:05,760 --> 00:56:08,959 Speaker 1: normal price. Anyway, a whole bunch of sketchy ship happens. Yeah, 1082 00:56:08,960 --> 00:56:11,520 Speaker 1: it's a nice side hustle for the cops, you know. 1083 00:56:11,920 --> 00:56:14,600 Speaker 1: I mean, because hey, there was a gig economy back 1084 00:56:14,600 --> 00:56:17,680 Speaker 1: then too. A lot of us are uber drivers slash 1085 00:56:17,719 --> 00:56:20,279 Speaker 1: gun salesman now, so I get it, and it's one 1086 00:56:20,280 --> 00:56:22,960 Speaker 1: of those things. Um, there's a number of things about 1087 00:56:23,480 --> 00:56:26,439 Speaker 1: including like waiting periods and stuff in California that there's 1088 00:56:26,480 --> 00:56:29,000 Speaker 1: a strong argument to be made in favor of um. 1089 00:56:29,040 --> 00:56:31,200 Speaker 1: But this is where a lot of it starts. Um, 1090 00:56:31,239 --> 00:56:35,000 Speaker 1: and it never entirely gets divorced from from this thing 1091 00:56:35,080 --> 00:56:36,880 Speaker 1: of Like again, you can look at the same thing 1092 00:56:36,880 --> 00:56:38,879 Speaker 1: in the n n F A of like, well, though 1093 00:56:38,920 --> 00:56:41,799 Speaker 1: we want to we don't want rich people to be affected, right, 1094 00:56:42,560 --> 00:56:45,880 Speaker 1: uh yeah, yeah. Anyway, the the you know they banned 1095 00:56:45,920 --> 00:56:48,560 Speaker 1: what is that, the Saturday Night specials? Like any like, oh, 1096 00:56:48,640 --> 00:56:50,600 Speaker 1: we're getting to that. That's where the handgun That's where 1097 00:56:50,600 --> 00:56:53,640 Speaker 1: the handgun roster starts. Though, yes, with the Saturday Night special. Um, 1098 00:56:54,360 --> 00:56:56,799 Speaker 1: but we're we're we're we'll get to that, don't worry. So. 1099 00:56:57,080 --> 00:56:59,839 Speaker 1: Harland Carter's support of an individual right to bear arms 1100 00:56:59,880 --> 00:57:02,880 Speaker 1: was not out of principled belief that all Americans deserve 1101 00:57:02,960 --> 00:57:05,160 Speaker 1: to defend themselves or out of a desire to even 1102 00:57:05,239 --> 00:57:10,000 Speaker 1: check governmental power. Again he militarized the border patrol. Um. Instead, 1103 00:57:10,040 --> 00:57:12,680 Speaker 1: he believed that guns were a tool to enforce white supremacy, 1104 00:57:12,680 --> 00:57:14,840 Speaker 1: and he wanted to ensure that white people maintained the 1105 00:57:14,960 --> 00:57:18,040 Speaker 1: right to do this and back in California's open carry ban, 1106 00:57:18,160 --> 00:57:21,040 Speaker 1: he was engaging in an intelligent strategy. You draw attention 1107 00:57:21,080 --> 00:57:24,560 Speaker 1: away from guns and you focus on who is carrying them. 1108 00:57:24,600 --> 00:57:26,880 Speaker 1: This is the origin of the quote guns don't kill people, 1109 00:57:26,920 --> 00:57:29,200 Speaker 1: People don't kill people argument. But when Harlan made it, 1110 00:57:29,240 --> 00:57:33,040 Speaker 1: the people were explicitly coated as black. I'm gonna quote 1111 00:57:33,040 --> 00:57:36,840 Speaker 1: from Epic magazine now. The same year, American Riflemen published 1112 00:57:36,880 --> 00:57:40,880 Speaker 1: an editorial titled Who Guards America's Homes? It depicted protests 1113 00:57:40,880 --> 00:57:44,040 Speaker 1: like Watts as mob violence. Who then supports the police? 1114 00:57:44,040 --> 00:57:46,560 Speaker 1: Who then guards the doors of American homes from senseless 1115 00:57:46,560 --> 00:57:50,160 Speaker 1: savagery and pillaging. It read with home front safeguards spotty 1116 00:57:50,200 --> 00:57:54,640 Speaker 1: and uncertain. The armed citizen represents a potential community stabilizer, right, 1117 00:57:55,840 --> 00:58:00,479 Speaker 1: Nothing is more stable stabilizing for community. There a bunch 1118 00:58:00,520 --> 00:58:03,160 Speaker 1: of armed white people. Well, and he's he's very much 1119 00:58:03,200 --> 00:58:06,520 Speaker 1: making the written house argument here, right, armed citizen supports 1120 00:58:06,560 --> 00:58:09,880 Speaker 1: the police. Black panthers are making what I might argue 1121 00:58:09,920 --> 00:58:12,680 Speaker 1: is more of an original interpretation, which is the armed 1122 00:58:12,680 --> 00:58:16,920 Speaker 1: citizen protects the community from government overreach. That's the black panthers. 1123 00:58:16,960 --> 00:58:20,600 Speaker 1: He's saying, the armed citizen aids the police in enforcing 1124 00:58:20,640 --> 00:58:23,400 Speaker 1: white supremacy. Right, that's the argument being made by the 1125 00:58:23,480 --> 00:58:25,800 Speaker 1: n r A here. Yeah, yeah, it's funny because like 1126 00:58:26,000 --> 00:58:30,440 Speaker 1: you know, obviously, you know, you do have your you know, 1127 00:58:30,720 --> 00:58:35,040 Speaker 1: right wing insurrectionists, militias and ship like that. But for 1128 00:58:35,080 --> 00:58:38,680 Speaker 1: the most part, what is being supported is like arming 1129 00:58:38,680 --> 00:58:42,920 Speaker 1: the suburbs, you know, and anyone who supports the police 1130 00:58:43,120 --> 00:58:45,600 Speaker 1: should be armed, and anyone who in any ways against 1131 00:58:45,640 --> 00:58:49,920 Speaker 1: it shouldn't be. And that is, uh, you know, it 1132 00:58:50,040 --> 00:58:54,840 Speaker 1: is a problem. It's a it's a problem that deserves 1133 00:58:54,920 --> 00:58:58,040 Speaker 1: a more complex series of solutions than to get suggested 1134 00:58:58,240 --> 00:59:03,600 Speaker 1: on on in debates over this. But that's a separate topic. Um. So, 1135 00:59:03,720 --> 00:59:07,280 Speaker 1: after RFK and and Martin Luther King Jr. Are murdered 1136 00:59:07,320 --> 00:59:11,360 Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty Senator Thomas Dodd reintroduces the Gun Control 1137 00:59:11,400 --> 00:59:14,040 Speaker 1: Act to Congress. This has been put up through it 1138 00:59:14,040 --> 00:59:16,240 Speaker 1: for it a couple of times. Um he puts it 1139 00:59:16,280 --> 00:59:19,080 Speaker 1: through again in nineteen sixty eight after those assassinations, and 1140 00:59:19,320 --> 00:59:22,240 Speaker 1: the Gun Control Act is intended to ban the interstate 1141 00:59:22,320 --> 00:59:27,120 Speaker 1: sale of guns, um ban their sale to children, to 1142 00:59:27,240 --> 00:59:31,120 Speaker 1: convicted felons, and because of some biggot treat mental defectives. Right. 1143 00:59:31,560 --> 00:59:34,160 Speaker 1: So again, like like all of these laws, there's like, Okay, 1144 00:59:34,200 --> 00:59:35,520 Speaker 1: you don't want people to just be able to like 1145 00:59:35,560 --> 00:59:38,760 Speaker 1: ship guns through a mail order catalog across the country. 1146 00:59:38,880 --> 00:59:41,160 Speaker 1: I can get on board their right probably shouldn't be 1147 00:59:41,160 --> 00:59:43,600 Speaker 1: selling them to children or you know, although I have 1148 00:59:43,640 --> 00:59:46,760 Speaker 1: issues with like who becomes a felon right like violent 1149 00:59:46,840 --> 00:59:49,000 Speaker 1: history shure, that makes sense. You don't want somebody who's 1150 00:59:49,080 --> 00:59:52,440 Speaker 1: like a convicted rapist buying guns. And then like and 1151 00:59:52,480 --> 00:59:55,280 Speaker 1: mental defectives, well, how the hell do you define that? Now? Now, 1152 00:59:55,880 --> 01:00:01,160 Speaker 1: now I've got some concerts. Um, But this this law again, 1153 01:00:01,200 --> 01:00:03,520 Speaker 1: there's a lot that's very reasonable in here, and the 1154 01:00:03,600 --> 01:00:06,880 Speaker 1: n r A rallies against it in huge numbers. Harlan 1155 01:00:07,000 --> 01:00:08,920 Speaker 1: Carter and his partner in the and they are not 1156 01:00:09,040 --> 01:00:11,880 Speaker 1: in They don't have an issue with the mental defectives part, right, 1157 01:00:11,880 --> 01:00:15,000 Speaker 1: that's not the thing that's a problem to them. Um, 1158 01:00:15,040 --> 01:00:16,800 Speaker 1: this is the first law that causes the n r 1159 01:00:16,840 --> 01:00:20,280 Speaker 1: A to get like hugely political. And and Harlan Carter again, 1160 01:00:20,320 --> 01:00:22,320 Speaker 1: there's this war still within the n r A that 1161 01:00:22,400 --> 01:00:25,920 Speaker 1: hasn't been resolved between the old Guard and the New Guard. Carter, 1162 01:00:26,080 --> 01:00:30,000 Speaker 1: because he has a lot of influence in American Rifleman magazine. Um, 1163 01:00:30,080 --> 01:00:32,800 Speaker 1: he he enlists like the people that he's been seating 1164 01:00:32,800 --> 01:00:34,480 Speaker 1: the n r A with these new guard folks to 1165 01:00:34,480 --> 01:00:37,200 Speaker 1: start like coming up with a series of blistering editorials 1166 01:00:37,200 --> 01:00:40,840 Speaker 1: in American Rifleman magazine that are urging people to write 1167 01:00:40,920 --> 01:00:43,400 Speaker 1: letters to Congress to like this is the first real 1168 01:00:43,560 --> 01:00:45,959 Speaker 1: concerted lobbying campaign. But he and I'm trying to figure 1169 01:00:46,000 --> 01:00:48,440 Speaker 1: out what which part of it is? Is it the 1170 01:00:48,520 --> 01:00:51,200 Speaker 1: children part? Is it the fact that they're like, no 1171 01:00:51,520 --> 01:00:55,880 Speaker 1: children is neutral, racially neutral, So they're like wait wait 1172 01:00:55,920 --> 01:00:57,600 Speaker 1: wait wait, wait wait wait, can't do that? Or what 1173 01:00:57,760 --> 01:00:59,880 Speaker 1: is it? A big part of it this isn't attempting 1174 01:00:59,880 --> 01:01:02,440 Speaker 1: to established like if you're buying a gun, you have 1175 01:01:02,560 --> 01:01:04,800 Speaker 1: to do it through There has to be like this 1176 01:01:04,800 --> 01:01:07,640 Speaker 1: this legal process, Like you could just be a dude 1177 01:01:07,640 --> 01:01:10,360 Speaker 1: has a gun and I get it. Right. Um, And 1178 01:01:10,400 --> 01:01:13,240 Speaker 1: that's that's the big that's the center of the problem, right, 1179 01:01:13,360 --> 01:01:15,320 Speaker 1: is the idea that the federal government is now going 1180 01:01:15,360 --> 01:01:19,400 Speaker 1: to be involved inherent like in all legal gun purchases, 1181 01:01:19,440 --> 01:01:21,840 Speaker 1: which is obviously not what the Gun Control Act does. 1182 01:01:22,200 --> 01:01:24,280 Speaker 1: There's these things called face to face sales in a 1183 01:01:24,280 --> 01:01:26,400 Speaker 1: lot of states where if you're not a gun dealer, 1184 01:01:26,840 --> 01:01:29,680 Speaker 1: you can sell a gun to anybody without there being 1185 01:01:29,720 --> 01:01:31,360 Speaker 1: any kind of a background check. That is still the 1186 01:01:31,440 --> 01:01:35,240 Speaker 1: law in a lot of the country. UM. But most 1187 01:01:35,320 --> 01:01:37,320 Speaker 1: gun purchases you have to do you have to fill 1188 01:01:37,320 --> 01:01:39,280 Speaker 1: out what's called a Form four FUR seven three, which 1189 01:01:39,280 --> 01:01:42,000 Speaker 1: is and you have to have like a federal background check. Right. Um. 1190 01:01:42,040 --> 01:01:44,040 Speaker 1: And the government gets involved. Right, That's that's the thing 1191 01:01:44,080 --> 01:01:46,640 Speaker 1: that they're scared about. And again, you can't divorce this 1192 01:01:46,680 --> 01:01:48,800 Speaker 1: from like the John Birch Society, from all of these 1193 01:01:48,800 --> 01:01:52,840 Speaker 1: panics about communism, um about like you know, the government 1194 01:01:52,880 --> 01:01:56,600 Speaker 1: getting increasingly centralized. UM. And I guess you might argue 1195 01:01:56,640 --> 01:01:59,240 Speaker 1: that that's also closer to an originalist interpretation of the 1196 01:01:59,280 --> 01:02:04,920 Speaker 1: Second Amendment. UM. But anyway, UM, So the n r A, 1197 01:02:06,200 --> 01:02:09,160 Speaker 1: you know, Harlan Carter urges like helps to organize this 1198 01:02:09,240 --> 01:02:12,439 Speaker 1: massive campaign of resistance against the Gun Control Act. Um. 1199 01:02:12,480 --> 01:02:15,360 Speaker 1: And it's not popular with many of the folks running 1200 01:02:15,400 --> 01:02:17,600 Speaker 1: the n r A at the time. UM. And again, 1201 01:02:18,200 --> 01:02:20,880 Speaker 1: the way they've done things before, Congress would suggest a bill, 1202 01:02:20,960 --> 01:02:22,800 Speaker 1: the n r A would usually have some issues with it, 1203 01:02:22,840 --> 01:02:24,600 Speaker 1: but they would like make those issues clear than they'd 1204 01:02:24,600 --> 01:02:26,200 Speaker 1: sit down and like hash something out as they did 1205 01:02:26,240 --> 01:02:28,680 Speaker 1: in nineteen thirty four. So the vice president of the 1206 01:02:28,760 --> 01:02:31,640 Speaker 1: n r A, guy named Franklin Or, figures, that's what 1207 01:02:31,680 --> 01:02:33,720 Speaker 1: we're going to do, right. Um. He doesn't want the 1208 01:02:33,840 --> 01:02:36,960 Speaker 1: organization to take like a really public political stance because 1209 01:02:36,960 --> 01:02:40,080 Speaker 1: that's kind of permanently alienated from like one party, right, 1210 01:02:40,120 --> 01:02:42,080 Speaker 1: And he doesn't that's not his goal with the n 1211 01:02:42,160 --> 01:02:43,240 Speaker 1: r A. He doesn't want it to be like a 1212 01:02:43,280 --> 01:02:48,480 Speaker 1: Republican or a democratic thing. Short sighted idiot. Yeah, So 1213 01:02:49,240 --> 01:02:51,440 Speaker 1: for what would be the last time, because again Or 1214 01:02:51,600 --> 01:02:53,240 Speaker 1: and his people are still in charge of the n 1215 01:02:53,360 --> 01:02:55,680 Speaker 1: r A. Broadly, the n r A sits down with 1216 01:02:55,800 --> 01:02:59,320 Speaker 1: Franklin Dodd and they reach a compromise on the bill. Um, 1217 01:02:59,440 --> 01:03:01,560 Speaker 1: and they they they alter it and what not to 1218 01:03:01,560 --> 01:03:04,560 Speaker 1: be a little bit whatever Earth describes it as a 1219 01:03:04,640 --> 01:03:07,840 Speaker 1: law the sportsman of America can live with. Um. The 1220 01:03:07,920 --> 01:03:11,160 Speaker 1: fact that anything had been passed at all enrages the 1221 01:03:11,200 --> 01:03:14,240 Speaker 1: base that Carter has put together, and they respond with 1222 01:03:14,280 --> 01:03:16,840 Speaker 1: a flood of hate mail so voluminous it nearly makes 1223 01:03:16,880 --> 01:03:20,200 Speaker 1: Earth resign. Um. It becomes increasingly clear that the old 1224 01:03:20,280 --> 01:03:24,160 Speaker 1: Guard did not speak for the increasingly radicalized masses of 1225 01:03:24,200 --> 01:03:27,320 Speaker 1: the n r A UM and these again, these people 1226 01:03:27,400 --> 01:03:30,840 Speaker 1: are they're they're frightened of black mobs, of the Watts Riots, right, 1227 01:03:31,120 --> 01:03:34,000 Speaker 1: they're also have been stoked by Carter and his lackeys 1228 01:03:34,040 --> 01:03:37,240 Speaker 1: with like fears of Communist infiltration and invasion. This is 1229 01:03:37,280 --> 01:03:39,240 Speaker 1: all kind of coming together as part of it, and 1230 01:03:39,240 --> 01:03:41,760 Speaker 1: obviously a lot of the right and this time sees 1231 01:03:41,800 --> 01:03:43,480 Speaker 1: the Watts Riots is like it must have been the 1232 01:03:43,520 --> 01:03:49,280 Speaker 1: Soviet Union. There's this is like a synonymous like you know, 1233 01:03:49,320 --> 01:03:53,680 Speaker 1: any kind of black uprising synonymous with communism at this Yeah, 1234 01:03:53,880 --> 01:03:56,120 Speaker 1: so kind of what you're seeing here is the radical 1235 01:03:56,200 --> 01:03:58,320 Speaker 1: chunk of the n r A doesn't want like wants 1236 01:03:58,360 --> 01:04:01,480 Speaker 1: to oppose any like this law under all conditions. Right, 1237 01:04:01,520 --> 01:04:03,760 Speaker 1: there's no no way in which they'll be okay with this, 1238 01:04:04,560 --> 01:04:07,800 Speaker 1: and they lose the fight to the old Guard, who 1239 01:04:07,800 --> 01:04:11,840 Speaker 1: works with the government to pass this law. But the 1240 01:04:11,960 --> 01:04:15,000 Speaker 1: New Guard, I guess you New Guard doesn't really a turn. 1241 01:04:15,000 --> 01:04:19,920 Speaker 1: But like the Harland, Carter's faction becomes it starts to 1242 01:04:19,920 --> 01:04:22,000 Speaker 1: become more dominant as a result of this because it 1243 01:04:22,040 --> 01:04:25,560 Speaker 1: pisces off so many people and because it's so much 1244 01:04:25,600 --> 01:04:28,800 Speaker 1: easier to electrify people with like threats of the communist 1245 01:04:28,880 --> 01:04:31,360 Speaker 1: government is coming to like take your guns to stop. 1246 01:04:31,440 --> 01:04:33,200 Speaker 1: You have to be able to protect your family against 1247 01:04:33,200 --> 01:04:35,960 Speaker 1: these dangerous blu that that's easier to rile people up for. 1248 01:04:36,080 --> 01:04:38,160 Speaker 1: Then we should work with the government to come to 1249 01:04:38,200 --> 01:04:44,600 Speaker 1: like sensible accommodations. Right, that's compromised, that's not a selling point. Right. 1250 01:04:44,640 --> 01:04:48,040 Speaker 1: So because of what Carter builds here over this fight, 1251 01:04:48,120 --> 01:04:50,120 Speaker 1: membership in the n R A source to over a 1252 01:04:50,160 --> 01:04:54,120 Speaker 1: million people for the first time in the association's history. 1253 01:04:54,320 --> 01:04:57,040 Speaker 1: So this is part of what scares the old guard 1254 01:04:57,080 --> 01:04:59,360 Speaker 1: and makes them silo. Harlan Carter off to the i 1255 01:04:59,520 --> 01:05:01,840 Speaker 1: l A, which is the n R race first registered lobby, 1256 01:05:02,200 --> 01:05:04,560 Speaker 1: and when they make this lobbying group for him to run, 1257 01:05:04,680 --> 01:05:06,720 Speaker 1: they don't like fund it, so he's going to have 1258 01:05:06,760 --> 01:05:08,960 Speaker 1: to raise his own money to do anything. And their 1259 01:05:08,960 --> 01:05:11,240 Speaker 1: hope is that, like, this guy is dangerous, but we 1260 01:05:11,280 --> 01:05:13,920 Speaker 1: can't kick him out. So if we give him this 1261 01:05:13,960 --> 01:05:16,480 Speaker 1: lobbying organization but don't give him any money, he's going 1262 01:05:16,520 --> 01:05:18,520 Speaker 1: to have to spend all of his time raising funds 1263 01:05:18,560 --> 01:05:20,439 Speaker 1: and he's not going to be able to like cause 1264 01:05:20,480 --> 01:05:24,880 Speaker 1: any trouble. Um. This proves to be a bad strategy 1265 01:05:24,920 --> 01:05:30,200 Speaker 1: because Harlan Carter innvinced the concept of right wing fundraising. Yes, 1266 01:05:31,120 --> 01:05:35,720 Speaker 1: the first podcaster. Yeah, he's the first guy to figure 1267 01:05:35,760 --> 01:05:37,680 Speaker 1: out how everything is going to work for right wing 1268 01:05:37,760 --> 01:05:40,560 Speaker 1: fundraising in the future. And he doesn't because he figures out, 1269 01:05:41,240 --> 01:05:43,840 Speaker 1: he starts he uses computers, right, Like, that's the thing 1270 01:05:43,920 --> 01:05:45,920 Speaker 1: he figures out is going to be critical. And I'm 1271 01:05:45,920 --> 01:05:49,560 Speaker 1: gonna quote from Alina Buckley again. Their computer could print 1272 01:05:49,600 --> 01:05:52,360 Speaker 1: even lines per minute, letting Carter's team produce thousands of 1273 01:05:52,400 --> 01:05:54,760 Speaker 1: letters addressed to members over a twenty four hour period. 1274 01:05:54,800 --> 01:05:57,640 Speaker 1: It was the latest iteration of a powerful tool, direct mail. 1275 01:05:58,000 --> 01:06:00,600 Speaker 1: The medium had reached prominence by the early night seventies, 1276 01:06:00,600 --> 01:06:03,040 Speaker 1: when it was first pioneered by Richard Vigary, who, as 1277 01:06:03,080 --> 01:06:05,600 Speaker 1: a campaign worker had copied down the names and addresses 1278 01:06:05,600 --> 01:06:08,880 Speaker 1: of people who had donated to Bury Goldwater's unsuccessful presidential bid. 1279 01:06:09,160 --> 01:06:11,440 Speaker 1: With that list of Republicans and their addresses as good 1280 01:06:11,520 --> 01:06:14,000 Speaker 1: as the gold bricks deposited at Fort Knox, he once wrote, 1281 01:06:14,280 --> 01:06:16,880 Speaker 1: Vigory had developed away for conservatives to reach the people 1282 01:06:17,000 --> 01:06:19,920 Speaker 1: most likely to become coveted single issue voters with the 1283 01:06:20,040 --> 01:06:22,280 Speaker 1: right messaging. Carter hoped to use the tool to drum 1284 01:06:22,440 --> 01:06:26,000 Speaker 1: support for i l a's legislative work. Vigory himself collaborated 1285 01:06:26,000 --> 01:06:28,480 Speaker 1: with Carter to build their database. I LA did all 1286 01:06:28,520 --> 01:06:30,360 Speaker 1: of this under the noses and the shoes of the 1287 01:06:30,480 --> 01:06:32,919 Speaker 1: n r A executives, gaining ground for a hardened line 1288 01:06:32,920 --> 01:06:36,720 Speaker 1: against gun control. I'm building an organization capable of public persuasion, 1289 01:06:36,760 --> 01:06:39,040 Speaker 1: not only in Washington, but in the States. Carter said 1290 01:06:39,040 --> 01:06:40,920 Speaker 1: at the time, we don't know the best way to 1291 01:06:41,000 --> 01:06:43,240 Speaker 1: reach all the people yet, but of course we shall 1292 01:06:44,560 --> 01:06:48,640 Speaker 1: so God damn it. He built a mailing list. He's 1293 01:06:48,680 --> 01:06:52,200 Speaker 1: one of the very first people to do this and 1294 01:06:52,400 --> 01:06:55,040 Speaker 1: is arguably the most successful of anyone in this period 1295 01:06:55,080 --> 01:06:58,760 Speaker 1: to do it. Um and uh, yeah, that's what we're 1296 01:06:58,760 --> 01:07:01,880 Speaker 1: gonna leave things for today. But first, Matt, you got 1297 01:07:01,960 --> 01:07:04,640 Speaker 1: a mailing list. You wanna? I got a mailing list. 1298 01:07:05,040 --> 01:07:10,920 Speaker 1: It's called Instagram. You can find me there, uh at 1299 01:07:11,000 --> 01:07:14,680 Speaker 1: Matt Leave Jokes. Please follow me. Uh And also, hey, 1300 01:07:14,720 --> 01:07:16,960 Speaker 1: if you like the Sopranos, listen Upon Yourself a Gun 1301 01:07:17,040 --> 01:07:20,280 Speaker 1: and is a rewatch podcast where me and Vince Mancini 1302 01:07:20,600 --> 01:07:23,160 Speaker 1: talk about every episode. We just wrapped it up and 1303 01:07:23,520 --> 01:07:27,240 Speaker 1: uh it is the greatest and only Sopranos podcasts in 1304 01:07:27,240 --> 01:07:30,480 Speaker 1: the world, and uh I would love for y'all to 1305 01:07:30,600 --> 01:07:33,360 Speaker 1: check it out. And well, that's that's wonderful. I would 1306 01:07:33,400 --> 01:07:36,040 Speaker 1: like to use this time to get everyone to get 1307 01:07:36,120 --> 01:07:41,800 Speaker 1: involved in my fundamentalist right wing mailing list uh NAKA 1308 01:07:42,280 --> 01:07:47,120 Speaker 1: the National Anti Quartering Association. We're Third Amendment fundamentalists, Matt. 1309 01:07:47,680 --> 01:07:50,120 Speaker 1: Not only do I think that soldiers shouldn't be quartered 1310 01:07:50,120 --> 01:07:52,760 Speaker 1: in houses, I don't think they should be quartered anywhere. 1311 01:07:53,120 --> 01:07:56,480 Speaker 1: I think soldiers should be kept awake constantly with heavy 1312 01:07:56,520 --> 01:07:58,800 Speaker 1: doses of amphetamines for the duration of the time that 1313 01:07:58,840 --> 01:08:01,600 Speaker 1: they're serving. No ordering of soldiers anywhere, not even on 1314 01:08:01,680 --> 01:08:04,200 Speaker 1: military basis. Keep them in the sea or in the 1315 01:08:04,280 --> 01:08:08,080 Speaker 1: sky on drugs at all times. That's the knack a line. 1316 01:08:09,000 --> 01:08:12,760 Speaker 1: So yeah, find find us online, give us your email, 1317 01:08:13,160 --> 01:08:17,919 Speaker 1: send us money and act blue dot com slash an quarters. 1318 01:08:18,280 --> 01:08:29,840 Speaker 1: It's no quartering nowhere. Good Times Behind the Bastards is 1319 01:08:29,880 --> 01:08:32,639 Speaker 1: a production of cool Zone Media. For more from cool 1320 01:08:32,720 --> 01:08:35,800 Speaker 1: Zone Media, visit our website cool zone media dot com, 1321 01:08:36,240 --> 01:08:38,559 Speaker 1: or check us out on the I Heart Radio app, 1322 01:08:38,640 --> 01:08:41,040 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.