WEBVTT - Are zoos good or bad for animals? 0:00:00.280 --> 0:00:02.920 Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray. 0:00:03.160 --> 0:00:07.520 It's ready. Are you welcome to Stuff you Should Know 0:00:08.119 --> 0:00:16.360 from House Stuff Works dot Com? Hey, I'm welcome to 0:00:16.360 --> 0:00:19.079 the podcast. I'm Josh Clark with me. Is always this 0:00:19.200 --> 0:00:22.080 Charles W. Chuck Bryant that makes this stuff you should know? 0:00:23.079 --> 0:00:27.160 You know what? And saw Ronnie millsap this weekend. Shut up, 0:00:27.200 --> 0:00:30.600 I swear to guy. Really? Yeah, he's still alive. Oh yeah, 0:00:31.240 --> 0:00:34.240 he just had he just released a new gospel album. 0:00:34.440 --> 0:00:37.760 Is he the Blind Guy? Yeah? Okay, yeah. Where where 0:00:37.760 --> 0:00:41.240 did he play? I've got to know. Spindale, North Carolina. 0:00:41.400 --> 0:00:44.240 I can say honestly that I've been to Spindale, North Carolina. 0:00:44.240 --> 0:00:46.320 Did you go there to see him? Yeah? You mean 0:00:46.320 --> 0:00:49.159 he's a big fan actually, and he's spent half an 0:00:49.200 --> 0:00:53.040 hour talking about his life. That guy's had it rough man. Yeah, 0:00:53.120 --> 0:00:55.520 you should check him out. He's interesting. I mean he 0:00:55.600 --> 0:00:58.760 was part of my childhood for sure. You should have gone. 0:00:58.760 --> 0:01:02.000 He played some old it. But he actually has a 0:01:02.040 --> 0:01:06.000 podcast in case you Yeah, he's got a podcast. Yeah, 0:01:06.000 --> 0:01:08.440 it's pretty good too. It's him like telling stories, talking 0:01:08.560 --> 0:01:11.080 and then playing a song and like he'll talk to 0:01:11.160 --> 0:01:14.560 somebody like off camera or off mike or whatever, like 0:01:15.040 --> 0:01:17.040 what did I forget or something like that, and then 0:01:17.040 --> 0:01:19.280 you'll hear something muffled and we're like, oh, yeah, okay, 0:01:19.360 --> 0:01:22.600 and he'll start playing. Is it called millsappen? That's what 0:01:22.640 --> 0:01:24.440 I call it. I think it's called like the Ronnie 0:01:24.520 --> 0:01:30.920 Millstap Show or something. Yeah, and we met him too. Actually, 0:01:31.120 --> 0:01:34.360 of course you're like eight people there. You could know 0:01:34.440 --> 0:01:39.240 it was packed. We definitely skewed the median age tremendously. Yeah, 0:01:39.360 --> 0:01:42.119 there was a lot of old folks there, but went 0:01:42.120 --> 0:01:44.759 to Dollywood right afterwards. We were definitely the only people 0:01:44.800 --> 0:01:48.680 from Atlanta there for sure. Cool. Yeah, Chuck, I love 0:01:48.720 --> 0:01:53.000 that that intro. Thanks Chuck. Yes, have you ever seen 0:01:53.040 --> 0:01:59.960 a chimpanzee masterbait? Uh? Yeah, I have you have. You're 0:02:00.000 --> 0:02:01.960 not the first person I met who's seen that? What 0:02:02.200 --> 0:02:05.320 you saw it at the zoo? Uh? Yeah? I mean 0:02:05.760 --> 0:02:07.520 is there any other answer than yes it was at 0:02:07.520 --> 0:02:09.720 a zoo. If I say it was hit my friend 0:02:09.840 --> 0:02:15.160 Roger's house, authorities are going to show up at you 0:02:15.200 --> 0:02:17.240 have seen that. I've never seen it. I think you've 0:02:17.280 --> 0:02:20.000 seen on YouTube. See. I think that that is a 0:02:20.040 --> 0:02:23.519 normal behavior, as I understand that they are primates after all, 0:02:23.720 --> 0:02:27.560 as are we. Um. But I think that you could 0:02:27.800 --> 0:02:31.120 make an argument that there's such thing as doing it 0:02:31.160 --> 0:02:35.200 too much among chimpanzees. And if you did notice that 0:02:35.240 --> 0:02:39.280 your chimpanzee was abusing himself a little too much, you 0:02:39.320 --> 0:02:43.360 could make a case that that chimpanzee was experiencing zookosis. 0:02:45.360 --> 0:02:47.800 You just dropped the mic, Josh just left the room literally, 0:02:47.960 --> 0:02:55.399 thank you good night. That's it. Yeah, zukosis, man, that's 0:02:55.440 --> 0:03:01.080 when animals in captivity start doing strange things like uh 0:03:01.200 --> 0:03:03.799 pascing like a bearable paste in a circle for hours 0:03:03.840 --> 0:03:07.760 on end, or a chimp might abuse himself, or a 0:03:08.360 --> 0:03:12.800 make the Saints cry. Cheetah might uh can like a 0:03:12.840 --> 0:03:15.360 bathe itself too much like self groom, how cats do 0:03:15.919 --> 0:03:19.399 like lick rash like holes in their body and stuff. Yeah, 0:03:19.400 --> 0:03:22.120 there's even worse stuff too. Um. A guy named Bill 0:03:22.200 --> 0:03:26.519 Traverse who's an actor from the UK who appropriately enough 0:03:26.600 --> 0:03:30.000 was in a movie called Born Free uh he uh. 0:03:30.080 --> 0:03:34.120 He was an animal rights activist as well. In he 0:03:34.200 --> 0:03:37.920 coined the term zukosis um and it described some pretty 0:03:37.960 --> 0:03:40.920 horrific behavior. Like you said, a lot of it is 0:03:41.240 --> 0:03:45.840 found in the wild as well. But it's just too repetitive. 0:03:45.840 --> 0:03:48.600 It's over and over and over again. It's constant. Like 0:03:48.720 --> 0:03:51.560 animals groom in the wild, but they don't groom until 0:03:51.640 --> 0:03:54.800 they have sore spots on their skin. Um. There's other 0:03:54.840 --> 0:03:56.920 stuff that they don't normally do in the wild, like 0:03:57.400 --> 0:04:02.720 smear their feces on, you know, the windows of their enclosures. Um, 0:04:02.880 --> 0:04:07.400 self mutilation, like chewing their own tailor leg um. There's 0:04:07.480 --> 0:04:11.520 a there's a kind of bulimia that some primates exhibit, 0:04:12.160 --> 0:04:15.480 uh in captivity, where they vomit, eat their vomit, and 0:04:15.480 --> 0:04:20.040 then vomit again. Uh, just over and over. I don't 0:04:20.240 --> 0:04:23.120 maybe out of boredom, maybe out of frustration or anger. 0:04:23.200 --> 0:04:27.680 But the point is you see this among animals and captivity. 0:04:27.760 --> 0:04:30.160 You don't see this kind of behavior among animals in 0:04:30.200 --> 0:04:33.560 the wild, which indicates what some people would consider a 0:04:33.640 --> 0:04:37.800 problem with zoos. Let's get down to it, discuss. Yeah, 0:04:37.960 --> 0:04:41.120 our zoo's good or bad. And obviously we've read the 0:04:41.120 --> 0:04:44.880 same article, so you can make the case for both, right, Yeah, Well, 0:04:44.920 --> 0:04:47.080 I guess we should start with good since we've already 0:04:47.080 --> 0:04:49.680 indicated a hint of the bad, just a hint, just 0:04:49.720 --> 0:04:52.720 a hint. The good let's talk about some pros on 0:04:52.760 --> 0:04:55.640 the zoo side. Um, zoos have gotten a lot better 0:04:56.080 --> 0:04:58.000 in the last four thousand years, and a whole lot 0:04:58.080 --> 0:05:01.720 better in the last like thirty years from what I've seen. 0:05:02.160 --> 0:05:03.160 Like when I was a kid and went to the 0:05:03.160 --> 0:05:07.800 Atlanta Zoo, it was the tile room with the guerrilla 0:05:07.839 --> 0:05:12.320 in it. And the monkey bars are not the monkey bars, 0:05:12.400 --> 0:05:15.120 the cage bars. Monkey bars were to play on right, 0:05:15.160 --> 0:05:17.760 I'm gonna play they didn't have monkey bars. But I 0:05:17.760 --> 0:05:20.200 mean if if they're the bars to the cage for 0:05:20.240 --> 0:05:22.920 a monkey and closure, they are technically monkey bars. Yeah 0:05:23.000 --> 0:05:24.640 what I'm the low nd on the totem pole, am 0:05:24.640 --> 0:05:29.200 I talking about? Yeah, that's that's a good thing. M uh. 0:05:29.520 --> 0:05:31.200 But they come a long way in the last like 0:05:31.200 --> 0:05:33.600 thirty and forty years and trying to create um more. 0:05:33.800 --> 0:05:37.600 The miniature habitats that they normally would live in the 0:05:37.600 --> 0:05:41.040 fences are gone now replaced with like moats, so they 0:05:41.080 --> 0:05:42.920 can't get to you, obviously, because that would be bad. 0:05:43.279 --> 0:05:46.440 Zeus have kind of kept in step with um the 0:05:46.480 --> 0:05:52.760 progress of mental institutions. Yeah, you know, they've gotten a 0:05:52.800 --> 0:05:56.000 lot better. Same with zoos. Apparently, Uh, they used to 0:05:56.080 --> 0:06:00.000 procure animals by going into the wild and taking them. 0:06:00.120 --> 0:06:03.120 Have you ever seen the Mystery Science Theater three thousand 0:06:03.200 --> 0:06:07.920 short catching Trouble? It is so unsettling you should check 0:06:07.920 --> 0:06:10.960 it out. Okay, So they used to go out procure animals, 0:06:10.960 --> 0:06:13.400 like they just go out to the to the planes 0:06:13.480 --> 0:06:16.560 and like get some giraffes and bring them home. They 0:06:16.560 --> 0:06:18.480 don't do that much anymore, although I do have some 0:06:18.480 --> 0:06:21.040 examples we'll get too later where they still actually do that. Yeah, 0:06:21.080 --> 0:06:24.680 now they have keptive breeding programs, yes, or a lot 0:06:24.720 --> 0:06:28.440 of animals are born in a zoo they never knew 0:06:28.440 --> 0:06:31.360 the wild, which he would make the argument that that's 0:06:31.360 --> 0:06:34.360 a lot better than having memory of Oh I used 0:06:34.400 --> 0:06:37.839 to live in a five thousand square mile range and 0:06:37.880 --> 0:06:43.160 now I live in a square feet area. And uh, 0:06:43.760 --> 0:06:48.640 they also, Josh, are trying to help restore endangered species 0:06:49.160 --> 0:06:51.880 with breeding programs and releasing them back into the wild. 0:06:52.600 --> 0:06:56.520 So that's that's some good, right, that is good. Yeah, 0:06:56.760 --> 0:06:59.720 I mean and the California condor, Right, that's that's one 0:06:59.760 --> 0:07:03.440 that's usually held up as an example. Uh, not too 0:07:03.440 --> 0:07:08.880 long ago, the California condor was on the verge of extinction. Um, 0:07:08.920 --> 0:07:11.440 and the San Diego and Los Angeles, who's got together 0:07:11.440 --> 0:07:15.280 and said, let's let's bring this vulture back. Let's get 0:07:15.320 --> 0:07:18.560 this vulture back up and running. Okay. So they had 0:07:18.600 --> 0:07:21.880 a in flying and they had a captive breeding program, 0:07:21.920 --> 0:07:25.600 and um, they took the population the world, the global 0:07:25.600 --> 0:07:30.320 population of the California condor, which was just relegated to California, 0:07:30.840 --> 0:07:33.360 um from less than two dozen birds to a d 0:07:33.600 --> 0:07:38.880 seventy not self sufficient even better, Chuck is the um 0:07:39.080 --> 0:07:43.400 pair David's deer right? Tell us that story. Well, this 0:07:43.480 --> 0:07:47.160 is a this is a Chinese deer. So what I 0:07:47.240 --> 0:07:49.840 like to say, it is a deer from China. And 0:07:49.880 --> 0:07:54.360 this deer had had had it been bred in captivity 0:07:54.480 --> 0:07:58.280 or was extinct, and then they re introduced it to 0:07:58.360 --> 0:08:02.840 the wild once they bred activity. How how did it happen? Uh, 0:08:02.880 --> 0:08:05.520 they went extinct in the wild, but they happen to 0:08:05.560 --> 0:08:09.160 have a few in captivity. Yeah, and then they eventually 0:08:09.640 --> 0:08:11.560 released I think four into the wild for the first 0:08:11.560 --> 0:08:16.000 time and another self sufficient, self sustaining, which means they 0:08:16.040 --> 0:08:18.600 get it on. Yeah. They're a good looking dear too, 0:08:20.520 --> 0:08:23.560 so they don't they don't have any problems. Now, I 0:08:23.600 --> 0:08:26.480 just mean it's a it's a you know, majestic animal 0:08:26.760 --> 0:08:31.080 good looking. Also, zeos often serve as a better home 0:08:31.200 --> 0:08:35.160 to animals that are like part of traveling circuses. Um, 0:08:35.280 --> 0:08:41.040 you remember our own aquarium here and Atlanta rescued. I 0:08:41.040 --> 0:08:44.480 guess the whale shark, both of their whale sharks. One 0:08:44.600 --> 0:08:47.120 was in Mexico, I think, and like a tank it 0:08:47.160 --> 0:08:49.839 could barely turn around in And now it's got the 0:08:49.880 --> 0:08:52.280 biggest tank in the world. And we swam in it. 0:08:52.400 --> 0:08:55.360 We did. It was cold, big dudes. Yeah. Uh, and 0:08:55.400 --> 0:08:59.480 there's polar bears that have been rescued. Leo. The snow leopard. Yeah, 0:08:59.600 --> 0:09:03.200 taking from Pakistan in two thousand seventh, wasn't was in 0:09:03.320 --> 0:09:06.000 great shape. In two thousand seven in the Bronx Zoo 0:09:06.040 --> 0:09:11.000 said give us that snow leopard, bring him over here. Yeah, 0:09:11.640 --> 0:09:14.120 that was my Bronx dude, Oh I got it. Okay, 0:09:14.880 --> 0:09:17.000 what else, Josh? Oh, they have their care We know 0:09:17.080 --> 0:09:19.720 a lot more now we're we're about animals and what 0:09:19.760 --> 0:09:22.559 they need in the kind of habitat. So the care 0:09:22.920 --> 0:09:25.480 taking of the animals and zoos has gotten way way 0:09:25.520 --> 0:09:28.480 better over the years. Yeah. Again, the at the Bronx Zoo, 0:09:28.520 --> 0:09:31.520 they just released there or they just opened their art 0:09:31.600 --> 0:09:35.280 vark exhibit new and improved uh. And apparently art varks 0:09:35.320 --> 0:09:40.160 were notoriously difficult to keep alive and happy because their 0:09:40.440 --> 0:09:42.959 termite diet is really hard to replicate. But they got 0:09:42.960 --> 0:09:47.080 it down to this uh insectivore chow in meat slurry diet, 0:09:47.520 --> 0:09:50.000 which sounds I wonder if it says new and improved 0:09:50.120 --> 0:09:55.920 now featuring live art varks corpses, it's much improved. No 0:09:56.080 --> 0:09:58.760 flies buzzing around them, Josh. The A lot of zoos 0:09:58.800 --> 0:10:02.000 give back financial The Bronx Zoo is channel more than 0:10:02.040 --> 0:10:06.360 three million dollars towards conservation projects in Africa, and sometimes 0:10:06.360 --> 0:10:08.560 they pair with groups like the Nature Conservancy to work 0:10:08.880 --> 0:10:11.000 not even just within their zoo, but in other states 0:10:11.400 --> 0:10:14.240 to uh. I think who is a Toledo zoo was 0:10:14.960 --> 0:10:17.800 working to restore butterfly habitats and Ohio. Yeah, and I 0:10:17.800 --> 0:10:20.600 have to tell you the Toledo Zoo for the size 0:10:21.440 --> 0:10:24.839 town of Toledo, the Toledo Zoo and the Toledo Art 0:10:24.920 --> 0:10:28.760 Museum are world class, really great zoo. Yeah, it puts 0:10:28.760 --> 0:10:30.840 Atlanta Zoo to shame. And then you can go to 0:10:30.840 --> 0:10:38.760 Tony Pacals right, Tony Pacos Pacos hot Dog. Yeah, you 0:10:38.760 --> 0:10:41.160 can get uh. Yeah, the best hot dog on the 0:10:41.160 --> 0:10:45.520 planet from Tony Pacos. Feed it to the I feel 0:10:45.520 --> 0:10:50.599 like cleaner. Uh and Josh, research and scientific research is 0:10:50.600 --> 0:10:53.079 obviously a big part of what zoos do nowadays. Okay, 0:10:53.080 --> 0:10:55.480 so that was like the well I got a step 0:10:55.520 --> 0:10:58.400 for you. Oh sorry, that's right. In two thousand two, 0:10:58.480 --> 0:11:03.960 zoo's participated in two thousand two thirty research projects, conservation projects, 0:11:04.000 --> 0:11:06.600 and more than eighty countries, which is pretty good. Yeah, 0:11:06.640 --> 0:11:08.840 and we shouldn't just poo poo that and go, you know, 0:11:09.280 --> 0:11:12.079 Willie Nilly buy it now. And you have to make 0:11:12.080 --> 0:11:16.240 the case that yes, zoos are helping in some way, 0:11:16.280 --> 0:11:19.880 shape or form. Right, Like, imagine the deer, the pair 0:11:20.160 --> 0:11:24.720 David's deer, right, Um, that would not be around anymore. 0:11:25.000 --> 0:11:28.240 That's that species would be extinct if it weren't for 0:11:28.360 --> 0:11:32.080 conservation efforts among zoos. Right, condor perhaps California condor might 0:11:32.120 --> 0:11:35.240 be gone. Maybe loss of the vulture. Apparently those things 0:11:35.240 --> 0:11:38.480 are huge. I read an article once where this guy 0:11:38.640 --> 0:11:42.400 was um standing on a cliff in California and he 0:11:42.520 --> 0:11:45.199 heard this, and then all of a sudden he just 0:11:45.240 --> 0:11:47.959 got really loud, and right up in front of him, 0:11:48.000 --> 0:11:51.280 this enormous condor just flew up and had been had 0:11:51.280 --> 0:11:55.040 been hunting, I guess, in this canyon and came up 0:11:55.080 --> 0:11:58.679 along the cliff's face and just flew like ten ft 0:11:58.679 --> 0:12:00.960 in front of him. He said, was just huge and 0:12:01.080 --> 0:12:03.560 probably the most thrilling thing that's ever happened to them. Yeah, 0:12:03.559 --> 0:12:05.839 they're big. I saw a bunch of them in Napa 0:12:05.920 --> 0:12:09.040 Valley on my recent trip, like tons of them. They 0:12:09.040 --> 0:12:11.920 hanging around the vineyards because when you're plowing a vineyard 0:12:11.960 --> 0:12:15.320 you'll dig up like rodents and stuff. So the vultures 0:12:15.320 --> 0:12:17.760 follow along behind the tractor literally and like go down 0:12:17.800 --> 0:12:22.880 there and eat up nice good for them, all right, Chuck, 0:12:24.000 --> 0:12:27.240 let's let's talk about the bad. Yeah, we get the 0:12:27.360 --> 0:12:30.160 ugly and the good down. Yeah, let's talk about the bad. 0:12:30.280 --> 0:12:34.840 You mentioned that the um that zoos are big on conservation, right, 0:12:35.720 --> 0:12:39.040 some say they are well in the US. If you 0:12:39.120 --> 0:12:42.800 are an animal exhibitor, meaning that you are showing animals 0:12:43.080 --> 0:12:45.880 for money, you have to be licensed by the U. 0:12:45.960 --> 0:12:50.400 S t A. Yes, there's about animal exhibitors in the 0:12:50.520 --> 0:12:54.000 US and they range from like the San Diego Zoo 0:12:54.040 --> 0:12:57.000 to the place in Arkansas where you drive through and 0:12:57.520 --> 0:12:59.640 like an Ostrich sticks his head in your car, right 0:12:59.679 --> 0:13:04.840 and go call the police. Exactly. Yeah. Um, about two 0:13:04.920 --> 0:13:08.960 hundred of those hundred are actually members of the American 0:13:09.200 --> 0:13:15.640 Zoological and Aquarium Association. Those are the up and up. Now, 0:13:15.640 --> 0:13:18.040 the a c A has far higher standards than the U. 0:13:18.120 --> 0:13:24.199 S d A for its members. Um is stricter safety requirements. Um. 0:13:24.240 --> 0:13:29.240 It's they forced conservation spending among their members. So um, 0:13:29.280 --> 0:13:30.719 you know, when you're not a member of the a 0:13:30.840 --> 0:13:35.000 c A, those other twenty four or hundred animal exhibitions 0:13:35.040 --> 0:13:39.520 in the US are spending nothing on conservation. And the 0:13:39.800 --> 0:13:41.840 other problem is the members of the a c A 0:13:41.960 --> 0:13:45.000 spend about three percent of their take at the gate 0:13:45.200 --> 0:13:49.160 on conservation every year, which is not that much. I mean, 0:13:49.160 --> 0:13:53.400 it goes kind of far, but not far enough. Uh. 0:13:53.480 --> 0:13:56.640 And also the the I think a hundred and forty 0:13:56.760 --> 0:14:03.640 six reintroduction programs took place in the twentieth century, sixteen 0:14:03.720 --> 0:14:06.880 were successful. Those are the status. You don't get, No, 0:14:07.040 --> 0:14:09.480 they just say we did a hundred forty five programs, 0:14:09.559 --> 0:14:13.440 and most of those programs were um, undertaken by the 0:14:13.480 --> 0:14:17.360 US government. So zoos are getting a lot of credit 0:14:17.800 --> 0:14:21.600 and taking a lot of credit. Actually, um, in the 0:14:21.640 --> 0:14:26.040 public mind, in the public consciousness. They've very successfully carved 0:14:26.040 --> 0:14:29.160 out this place where hey, we're here. It is to 0:14:29.280 --> 0:14:32.480 save the animals, and the idea that they are a 0:14:32.520 --> 0:14:35.600 business that makes money off of people coming in and 0:14:35.640 --> 0:14:38.520 looking at the animals has kind of been washed away, 0:14:38.520 --> 0:14:42.120 although it's still very present. It's zoos are very much businesses, 0:14:43.320 --> 0:14:46.000 you know this condourse. Yeah, only about two thirds of 0:14:46.040 --> 0:14:48.560 those worth strong enough to live. Yeah, that's sad. So 0:14:48.600 --> 0:14:51.000 you don't see that stat on the front end they 0:14:51.040 --> 0:14:53.360 got plowed under the front end of the tractor rather 0:14:53.440 --> 0:14:55.640 than flying in the back end. But they are I mean, 0:14:56.040 --> 0:15:00.000 part of me says these programs only sixteen were successful, 0:15:00.040 --> 0:15:01.520 But I mean they were trying at least, so I 0:15:01.720 --> 0:15:04.520 will give him that. Well, yeah, but I mean, like 0:15:04.760 --> 0:15:07.120 dead animals don't usually give you an e for effort, 0:15:07.160 --> 0:15:10.040 you know. Um. And I think part of the other 0:15:10.080 --> 0:15:11.920 problem is and I don't mean to Hammer's zoos like 0:15:11.960 --> 0:15:16.040 I do, see both sides of this coin. This isn't this, 0:15:16.040 --> 0:15:18.480 This isn't me just like, yeah, we talked about the good, 0:15:18.480 --> 0:15:22.800 now let's really get to it. Um again, there's that 0:15:22.800 --> 0:15:26.040 that pair David Deer. It wouldn't have existed had it 0:15:26.080 --> 0:15:29.119 not been for zoos. But I think by and large, 0:15:30.160 --> 0:15:35.840 if the reason zoos exist is because of encroachment on land, 0:15:35.880 --> 0:15:39.800 Like there's no there's a mind toward conservation, but there's 0:15:39.840 --> 0:15:42.840 not a mind toward preservation, and that's really where the 0:15:42.960 --> 0:15:46.320 mind should be, the mind and the money, right, I mean, 0:15:46.360 --> 0:15:48.480 if you take an elephant and put it into a 0:15:48.480 --> 0:15:52.680 little enclosure, it's gonna go nuts. Elephants are Actually that's 0:15:52.680 --> 0:15:55.200 one of the big ones as far as uh people 0:15:55.640 --> 0:15:58.200 not trying to be a pun master there, but it's 0:15:58.200 --> 0:16:01.280 one of the big animals that people are trying to 0:16:01.320 --> 0:16:03.280 get out of zoos. Like, if you're not going to 0:16:03.360 --> 0:16:05.080 shut down a zoo, at least get the elephants out 0:16:05.080 --> 0:16:08.160 of there. Yeah, And there's actually a website Josh called 0:16:08.240 --> 0:16:13.560 Save Wild Elephants dot com, and um, some zoos are 0:16:13.560 --> 0:16:16.480 starting to get rid of their elephant habitats and and 0:16:16.560 --> 0:16:19.560 they should honestly. I mean, elephants are used to traveling 0:16:19.600 --> 0:16:23.400 about fifty miles a day in large herds, and in 0:16:23.560 --> 0:16:28.720 the in captivity, they're you know, standing around an enclosure 0:16:28.720 --> 0:16:31.480 all day alone or with maybe a buddy or two. Right, 0:16:31.760 --> 0:16:36.360 So they're very social, highly social animals. That travel great distances, 0:16:36.640 --> 0:16:40.000 and no, they shouldn't be in in captivity at all. Yeah. 0:16:40.040 --> 0:16:42.600 The Detroit too actually got rid of their two elephants 0:16:42.920 --> 0:16:45.200 and closed down their exhibit, and the director of the 0:16:45.280 --> 0:16:48.640 zoo said Asian elephants should not live in small groups 0:16:48.680 --> 0:16:51.360 without many acres to rome, and they clearly shouldn't have 0:16:51.400 --> 0:16:53.520 to suffer the winners of the North. That's the other 0:16:53.520 --> 0:16:56.240 thing you know, think about is they're this elephant in 0:16:56.280 --> 0:16:58.720 the Detroit winner Are you kidding me? Now? And even 0:16:58.840 --> 0:17:02.080 worse as a uh, poor elephant called Maggie the elephant 0:17:02.240 --> 0:17:06.240 who in two thousand seven, during a cold snap at 0:17:06.240 --> 0:17:09.320 her home at the Alaska Zoo, was kept for days 0:17:09.359 --> 0:17:13.520 on in and this little inside enclosure because the zookeepers 0:17:13.520 --> 0:17:16.240 were like, she can't go outside, she'll freeze to death. 0:17:16.600 --> 0:17:19.040 And they brought in a treadmill that was big enough 0:17:19.040 --> 0:17:22.560 for and she wouldn't use it. Apparently the public finally 0:17:22.600 --> 0:17:25.840 just went crazy over it because it's a treadmill. Yeah, 0:17:26.119 --> 0:17:29.800 who likes a treadmill? Nobody? Nobody. I've got some more 0:17:29.840 --> 0:17:32.480 horror stories for you, Josh, if you want to hear. Yes, 0:17:33.200 --> 0:17:37.320 Tatiana Siberian tiger at the San Francisco Zoo in two 0:17:37.320 --> 0:17:40.920 thousand seven, escaped the substandard enclosure that she was in 0:17:41.440 --> 0:17:43.919 and was shot to death after she killed a person 0:17:44.840 --> 0:17:48.359 by police. So that happened. Um the Dallas Zoo, a 0:17:48.359 --> 0:17:52.280 guerrilla name Jabari tried to escape by jumping over the 0:17:52.280 --> 0:17:56.560 walls and moats and was fatally shot by police. Witness 0:17:56.640 --> 0:17:59.600 later reported that teenagers were taunting the animal with rocks 0:18:00.000 --> 0:18:04.479 are to escape? Remember that? Yeah, so these little kids 0:18:04.520 --> 0:18:07.800 throwing rocks at this gorilla and then, uh, all of 0:18:07.840 --> 0:18:09.800 a sudden, the gorilla escapes and the cops shoot it down. 0:18:10.520 --> 0:18:13.560 This wouldn't happen if the grillos in the wild. I think. 0:18:13.720 --> 0:18:16.159 Did it get that kid? Though? Didn't he get his 0:18:16.240 --> 0:18:18.680 hands on one of the kids. I don't know. That's 0:18:18.720 --> 0:18:22.120 not that's not in here. Uh. And at the Virginia Zoo, boy, 0:18:22.160 --> 0:18:24.680 they're really doing a great job. They had ten prairie 0:18:24.680 --> 0:18:28.120 dogs die when their tunnel collapsed on them in their habitat. 0:18:28.520 --> 0:18:31.480 They had a rhinoceros drown in the moat that was 0:18:31.480 --> 0:18:33.719 trying to you know, the moat that they used as 0:18:33.720 --> 0:18:37.400 a barrier. Uh. They had a zebra narrowly escaped death 0:18:37.400 --> 0:18:42.480 after jumping into the lion exhibit, which obviously she had passage, 0:18:43.160 --> 0:18:45.959 and another zebra lost her life when she bolted from 0:18:45.960 --> 0:18:49.520 a holding pin, struck offense and broke her neck. So 0:18:49.560 --> 0:18:52.480 they're really, uh, really doing a great job there in 0:18:52.480 --> 0:18:55.920 the Virginia Zoo. Well, I think that kind of demonstrates 0:18:55.960 --> 0:18:59.120 the problem is zebras are too stupid to not run 0:18:59.160 --> 0:19:01.760 in defenses, and if they're next then there shouldn't be 0:19:01.800 --> 0:19:05.480 fences around them. I got another elephant stat too, let's 0:19:05.520 --> 0:19:10.040 hear it, man. They studied records of forty elephants and 0:19:10.080 --> 0:19:12.840 they found that the median lifespan of an African elephant 0:19:12.840 --> 0:19:15.800 in a zoo is sixteen point nine years. Do you 0:19:15.800 --> 0:19:19.480 know what it is on the open plane? Fifty six years? Yeah, 0:19:19.560 --> 0:19:23.399 that's not good. That's quite a drop. It is. Another. 0:19:24.160 --> 0:19:26.720 Another argument that's made in favor of zoos often is 0:19:26.720 --> 0:19:29.960 that they educate the public. Um studies have actually shown 0:19:29.960 --> 0:19:33.280 that people come out of zoos less informed than they 0:19:33.280 --> 0:19:37.360 were before, and um with this kind of false sense 0:19:37.400 --> 0:19:40.239 of security that zoos have it under control and they 0:19:40.240 --> 0:19:43.040 don't really need to do anything to for conservation or 0:19:43.160 --> 0:19:48.560 preservation efforts. So zoos could actually be counterproductive in that regard. Yeah, 0:19:48.640 --> 0:19:52.359 and you know on that note they say that, um, 0:19:52.400 --> 0:19:54.119 the signs and the zoos, which you get is a 0:19:54.160 --> 0:19:57.680 little information about their species and diet and where they're from. 0:19:57.720 --> 0:19:59.920 But you never, if you notice, you never get any 0:20:00.000 --> 0:20:04.000 information on their normal behavior in the wild because you're 0:20:04.000 --> 0:20:07.960 not seeing it. So you're not really educating on how 0:20:08.000 --> 0:20:10.159 the animal really is. You're educating them on how they 0:20:10.160 --> 0:20:13.760 are in this small enclosure. And even then it's just 0:20:13.800 --> 0:20:17.080 a sign like this zebra likes to eat this plant. 0:20:17.440 --> 0:20:21.200 This chimp loves to vomit, eat its vomit and vomit again, 0:20:21.359 --> 0:20:24.479 and then spirits poop on the windows. Right, not funny. 0:20:24.720 --> 0:20:26.800 And I did want to mention to how we said 0:20:26.800 --> 0:20:28.639 earlier that they don't go out in the wild and 0:20:29.000 --> 0:20:32.760 catch their animals anymore. Not quite true. In two thousand three, 0:20:32.840 --> 0:20:35.600 the San Diego Wild Animal Park and Lowry Park Zoo 0:20:35.680 --> 0:20:43.800 captured eleven African elephants elephants elephants a species that is threatened, 0:20:43.920 --> 0:20:46.960 and they captured them from their natural habitat and Swaziland, 0:20:47.600 --> 0:20:50.720 and I guess brought them back to the zoo. And 0:20:50.720 --> 0:20:53.200 then I've got one more really sad one that Jerry 0:20:53.280 --> 0:20:56.320 is going to not listen to. Part of the problem 0:20:56.400 --> 0:20:58.240 in zeus, Josh, is that we like our cute little 0:20:58.240 --> 0:21:02.120 baby animals. What happens to cute little baby animals? They 0:21:02.119 --> 0:21:04.960 grow up, they grow up, and many times they get 0:21:04.960 --> 0:21:08.600 shuffled around after they're not cute anymore. Two different zoos 0:21:08.880 --> 0:21:10.879 moving around, it's not good for an animal. There was 0:21:10.920 --> 0:21:14.040 a chimpanzee named Edith born in the nineteen sixties at 0:21:14.040 --> 0:21:16.400 the St. Louis Zoo, and Edith was a big hit 0:21:16.440 --> 0:21:18.880 because she was a cute little baby. Edith grew up 0:21:18.920 --> 0:21:22.400 like all animals do and wasn't as attractive, so they 0:21:22.400 --> 0:21:25.720 shuffled her to five different facilities over the course of 0:21:25.720 --> 0:21:28.879 the years, eventually landing at a roadside zoo in Texas, 0:21:29.600 --> 0:21:32.960 and after an undercover investigation, they found Edith in a 0:21:33.000 --> 0:21:39.080 filthy concrete pit, hairless, living on dog food. How sad 0:21:39.200 --> 0:21:41.520 is that? That's pretty? Said Jerry. Did you hear that 0:21:41.880 --> 0:21:45.160 she's she's not listening. But I mean, I don't want 0:21:45.160 --> 0:21:47.720 to like throw the gauntlet down too much and say 0:21:47.800 --> 0:21:49.800 think about this when you're going to a zoo, but 0:21:49.960 --> 0:21:51.680 you know, think about this when you go to a zoo. 0:21:51.720 --> 0:21:54.160 Oh yeah, if you see an animal pulling its own 0:21:54.200 --> 0:21:57.800 hair out, Yeah, chewing its own tail off, or doing 0:21:57.840 --> 0:22:00.840 other some other bizarre saddening bay. If you should feel 0:22:00.880 --> 0:22:02.560 to that ad and you should tell somebody about it, 0:22:02.560 --> 0:22:07.040 you should contact somebody about it. Um Uh, it's it's 0:22:07.200 --> 0:22:10.159 it's everyone's own choice how they view a zoo, obviously, 0:22:10.720 --> 0:22:12.720 but if it gets to you, then do something about 0:22:12.720 --> 0:22:15.080 And there's plenty of organizations out there that somebody can 0:22:15.160 --> 0:22:17.040 join if they find that they are opposed to the 0:22:17.119 --> 0:22:20.920 concept of zoos absolutely. Uh. Pete also wanted to point 0:22:20.960 --> 0:22:24.280 out there are a few forward thinking zoos, progressive zoos 0:22:24.320 --> 0:22:28.320 that are trying their best to do right, like Monstory Zoos. 0:22:28.320 --> 0:22:32.199 So the Baltimore Zoo, good for you, Detroit Zoo, we 0:22:32.280 --> 0:22:36.240 love Detroit Point Defiance Zoo and Aquarium, and the North 0:22:36.240 --> 0:22:38.760 Carolina Zoo are apparently doing a pretty decent job of 0:22:39.400 --> 0:22:42.479 giving back. What was the last one? North Carolina? Okay, 0:22:42.880 --> 0:22:45.800 So Atlanta's not in there? Huh. No, Atlanta's not in there. 0:22:45.880 --> 0:22:50.520 Grant Park, you've been there lately? Um? Year or so ago? 0:22:50.640 --> 0:22:53.199 Two years ago? Um? Have you heard of the lu 0:22:53.280 --> 0:22:56.280 Gen Zoo? No, but I'll bet it's in China. It's 0:22:56.280 --> 0:23:01.159 in Argentina, maybe l u J and maybe it's not Lujon. 0:23:02.119 --> 0:23:05.680 They have an awful zoo where you can go and 0:23:06.680 --> 0:23:09.840 sit on the back of a lion, or get in 0:23:09.920 --> 0:23:12.040 the cage with a tiger and pet the tiger, or 0:23:12.240 --> 0:23:15.760 bottle feed a bobcat and you can do this when 0:23:15.760 --> 0:23:18.879