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Speaker 1: Welcome to Tech Stuff, a production from I Heart Radio.

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Speaker 1: Hey there, and welcome to tech Stuff. I'm your host,

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Speaker 1: Jonathan Strickland. I'm an executive producer with I Heart Radio

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Speaker 1: and love all Things Tech. And we're making Wednesdays the

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Speaker 1: new Fridays, just like Loki did on Disney. Plus that

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Speaker 1: being said, we're going to be moving a classic episode

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Speaker 1: to today Wednesday, because the episode I am currently working

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Speaker 1: on is not just technical, it also has a lot

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Speaker 1: of historical elements to it, and it's involving a lot

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Speaker 1: of digging around in old articles and putting things together,

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Speaker 1: and I'm just running a little behind. So our classic

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Speaker 1: episode is moving up from Friday to Wednesday, and we're

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Speaker 1: going to do an episode called the Mythology of Area

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Speaker 1: fifty one. Area one, of course, being the most famous

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Speaker 1: secret facility in the world. It is a place that

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Speaker 1: is connected to all sorts of different legends, from aliens

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Speaker 1: to crazy military experiments and more. And so this episode

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Speaker 1: really goes in to explore that I hope you enjoy.

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Speaker 1: We are in fact going to be concluding our trilogy

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Speaker 1: of episodes about Area fifty one in parts one and two.

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Speaker 1: If you haven't listened to them, already. We really went

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Speaker 1: over the history of the facility and what actually goes

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Speaker 1: on there and covered everything from the reason why it

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Speaker 1: was built in the first place to the various spy

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Speaker 1: planes and different technologies that were tested at that facility.

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Speaker 1: This episode, we're looking at the crazy yes, sir, we

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Speaker 1: are looking at all of the rumors, conspiracy theories and uh,

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Speaker 1: let's just say unsupported anecdotes to be diplomatic. That's very diplomatic. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so so quick rundown, just so that we're all on

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Speaker 1: the same page. Area fifty one, also known as Groom Lake,

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Speaker 1: is a facility. It's out in Nevada. It's near the

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Speaker 1: what Well. It's near the Nevada Test Site, where a

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Speaker 1: lot of nuclear tests were held, in fact, some during

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Speaker 1: the lifetime of Very fifty one. Uh. It is uh

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Speaker 1: run by the CIA and the Air Force. Lockheed is

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Speaker 1: essentially the main contractor that does work there. It's not

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Speaker 1: the only one. We've seen some other aircraft from different

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Speaker 1: companies tested at that facility as well. And the whole

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Speaker 1: purpose of it is to be remote from everywhere else

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Speaker 1: so that secret tests of top secret spy technology can

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Speaker 1: happen without anyone learning about it. Because, as we've said,

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Speaker 1: if you want to be an effective spy, part of

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Speaker 1: that means people can't be aware of the tools that

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Speaker 1: you have at your disposal, right Yeah, And which, as

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Speaker 1: we say, that's why it is in a Goldilocks zone

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Speaker 1: for its for its purpose, right Yeah. One of my

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Speaker 1: favorite points that you made in the previous episode, I

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Speaker 1: believe was the first installment, was that this was just

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Speaker 1: far enough away to be so inconvenient to get to

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Speaker 1: that people people wouldn't try. Yeah, it was. It's a

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Speaker 1: remote desert location on a dry lake bed, and so

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Speaker 1: it was close enough where you could get supplies from

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Speaker 1: places like Las Vegas, which is less than a hundred

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Speaker 1: miles away, but far enough away where you know your

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Speaker 1: your casual traveler is unlikely to stumble upon it, especially

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Speaker 1: once you start posting lots of warning signs with scary

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Speaker 1: wording on it warning people away. Now, the fact that

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Speaker 1: it is remote, the fact that you do have these

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Speaker 1: signs that warn people away, uh, the fact that you

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Speaker 1: have to bring people in to work at this facility,

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Speaker 1: and most of them are commuting in maybe on a

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Speaker 1: weekly basis, which means you have to figure out how

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Speaker 1: do you transport them from some place like Las Vegas

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Speaker 1: to the actual facility itself. All of that means that

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Speaker 1: you're leaving just enough traces to really start to peak

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Speaker 1: people's interests. Right, Yeah, it's tantalizing. Oh and uh, point

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Speaker 1: of order for the listeners out there, Jonathan, we should

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Speaker 1: probably tell everybody check out the first two episodes of

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Speaker 1: this before you listen to this one. Right, it will

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Speaker 1: make this make I can't say more sense, but you'll

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Speaker 1: at least understand the references. Yeah. So so, yeah, we've

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Speaker 1: got just enough information for the typical person to say,

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Speaker 1: I really want to know what's happening there. And because

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Speaker 1: of the security uh features that are in place, including

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Speaker 1: roving bands, which we'll talk about a little bit later,

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Speaker 1: of security personnel, uh, it means that you end up

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Speaker 1: having to fill in a lot of gaps. And when

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Speaker 1: that happens, when people are given the leeway to try

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Speaker 1: and fill in like that, there's the big here, there

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Speaker 1: be dragons on the map. That's where you get the dragons. Right,

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Speaker 1: You're like, well, I don't know what's out there. It's

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Speaker 1: probably dangerous, so we're just gonna slap dragons on it

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Speaker 1: and call it a day. Yeah, which is you know,

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Speaker 1: at heart of valuable instinct to have, right, it's it's caution.

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Speaker 1: But what's happened here is that as we're gonna see um,

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Speaker 1: one thing with a grain of truth such as oh

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Speaker 1: there's something I'm not allowed to go see, uh, became

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Speaker 1: embellished and then exaggerated. And many times the people saying

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Speaker 1: these things sincerely do believe this. They're not hucksters, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: this this isn't necessarily someone who's trying to get a

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Speaker 1: book deal or trying to get on the talk show circuit.

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Speaker 1: It maybe someone who has just enough information to leap

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Speaker 1: to some conclusions that are not supportable. And also we

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Speaker 1: should say there are times where people make guesses where

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Speaker 1: either they latch onto something that is actually true or

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Speaker 1: they've got part of the story. So just because something

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Speaker 1: is a few arie or a rumor or a conspiracy

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Speaker 1: of some sort doesn't mean that there's nothing there. Right.

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Speaker 1: So here's a great example, and it's one of the

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Speaker 1: more grounded, no pun intended examples of the mythology around

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Speaker 1: Area fifty one, there's the myth that there is a

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Speaker 1: giant subterranean network of UH tunnels and facilities that are

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Speaker 1: underneath the ground. So that way, when you get that

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Speaker 1: overhead view of Area fifty one, keep in mind Area

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Speaker 1: fifty one is restricted airspace that goes all the way

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Speaker 1: up into space. But there are satellites since the nineties

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Speaker 1: that have taken multiple images of that area. So if

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Speaker 1: you know that, in fact, you're going to be photographed

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Speaker 1: from space there, that seems logical that you would want

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Speaker 1: to go underground, right, So you can understand why people

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Speaker 1: would say, oh, well, it makes sense. You you want

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Speaker 1: to have that secrecy, You can no longer depend upon

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Speaker 1: it above ground, so you have to go below. But

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Speaker 1: this raises some logistical issues, right, Yeah, how do you

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Speaker 1: build an underground base and keep it quiet? Especially as

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Speaker 1: we said in the history podcast, Uh, the construction workers

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Speaker 1: that were taken out there probably would have known something

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Speaker 1: about it because they would have been the ones digging. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, and digging is a big deal. You're talking

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Speaker 1: about subterranean network. That's a lot of earth that you

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Speaker 1: have to move. And only do you have to move it,

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Speaker 1: you then have to figure out what do you do

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Speaker 1: with the earth you have taken. You know, when you

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Speaker 1: when you create a whole, that dirt doesn't just magically disappear, right,

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Speaker 1: you have to put it someplace. And so that's that's

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Speaker 1: a logistical issue, and it's an enormous type of endeavor

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Speaker 1: to undertake. I mean, imagine having to create something a

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Speaker 1: network of tunnels that is stable enough to support the

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Speaker 1: weight of whatever is above it. Uh not to mention

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Speaker 1: the idea of like level upon level of subterranean layer

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Speaker 1: like Dr Evil style. It's it's an enormous task and

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Speaker 1: it would have required such a huge investment and manpower.

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Speaker 1: Let alone, I don't even think about the cost financially,

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Speaker 1: just the practical manpower necessary to make it. It's not likely.

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Speaker 1: And there there are some rumors that go so far

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Speaker 1: as to suggest that there are there's an entire underground

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Speaker 1: network of tunnels that connect various bases together. Yeah, and really,

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Speaker 1: when you think of the engineering challenge that represents and

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Speaker 1: the construction that is required, you realize that while it

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Speaker 1: might be technologically possible for us to do it, it

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Speaker 1: is not really feasible to do it secretly where you

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Speaker 1: have not left any trace at all in the whole

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Speaker 1: process right now. And I think that's really good distinction,

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Speaker 1: because it's not just plausible, but it is probable that

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Speaker 1: there is some sort of below the ground construction at

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Speaker 1: Roswell in excuse me, area fifty one, in that when

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Speaker 1: you build things, there might be a basement, there might

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Speaker 1: be a safe room something like that. But that is

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Speaker 1: a far far cry from uh, what what do we

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Speaker 1: have here? What's what's the biggest record? Jonathan fifty stories stories? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: imagine a fifty story skyscraper, but underground. I mean, if

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Speaker 1: you've ever seen a skyscraper being built, you know, this

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Speaker 1: is a process that takes some time. And we we

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Speaker 1: here at hell stuff works. We moved into this. You know,

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Speaker 1: we're in an office that has recently, over the last

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Speaker 1: maybe five or six years, seen a lot of growth

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Speaker 1: with the buildings around us, and so we've actually watched

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Speaker 1: year over year as skyscrapers were being built, and it

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Speaker 1: takes a really long time. Uh. And I know people

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Speaker 1: would say, yeah, but this is a top secret establishment,

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Speaker 1: you know, you they'd really pour a lot into it.

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Speaker 1: If you've ever seen the government at work, the US

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Speaker 1: government at work, speed is not one of the adjectives

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Speaker 1: you would typically use. Right where if the US everyone

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Speaker 1: is a superhero, it would probably not be the flash.

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Speaker 1: I mean, everyone knows that maybe the Blob. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: was gonna go safe with Captain America. Well, all right,

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Speaker 1: I was he I was merely going to all the villains.

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Speaker 1: I was thinking the Blob or maybe the Jugger, not

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Speaker 1: you know, the Juggernauts. Cool though, that's a different podcast.

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Speaker 1: We We've got to get to one of the one

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Speaker 1: of the biggest things here, the biggest conspiracies we hear

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Speaker 1: about with Area fifty one. Well, first off, spoiler alert,

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Speaker 1: the real conspiracy is are their secret spy planes? Yes, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and that's exactly what it's for. And that's crazy. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean that is the first off, the fact that

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Speaker 1: that can even be possible, it's kind of right now.

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Speaker 1: We talked in the last couple of podcasts about some

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Speaker 1: of the the aircraft that were under development there that

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Speaker 1: remains secret a good twenty years after they had finished testing,

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Speaker 1: and that's when they were unveiled. Uh. There was one

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Speaker 1: that that I think had a run from three to

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Speaker 1: eighty five something like that, and it wasn't it wasn't

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Speaker 1: acknowledged by the government until ninety six, which was the

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Speaker 1: first time anyone outside of that that program had seen it.

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Speaker 1: Um And I think that was maybe Tacit blue. But

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Speaker 1: it was one of those that just when you saw

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Speaker 1: the aircraft, you thought, wow, what a weird looking thing.

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Speaker 1: I can't believe that this remained secret. Granted they only

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Speaker 1: built two of them, and they were under strict rap

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Speaker 1: over at one. It never got further out from from

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Speaker 1: that area, Like even the tests would be done at night,

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Speaker 1: so it limited when the potential of even being spotted.

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Speaker 1: But they were the genuine articles of conspiracy were indeed

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Speaker 1: spotted in the sky. And that brings us to as

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Speaker 1: we were saying, the biggest part of the area, are

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Speaker 1: you talking us? Yeah? Yeah, Officially unidentified flying objects UFOs

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Speaker 1: more often than not, uh, they are attributed to being

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Speaker 1: alien as an extraterrestrial in nature, Area fifty one features

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Speaker 1: heavily and tons of different alien stories, both both the

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Speaker 1: kind that we see on the big screen, like Independence Day,

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Speaker 1: the famous sequence where they go down to Area fifty

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Speaker 1: one where they have uh, not just aliens, but they're

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Speaker 1: they're hardware that has been studied for years, and you know,

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Speaker 1: it's revealed that a lot of technology we depend upon

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Speaker 1: today has been reverse engineered from this alien technology. Still

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Speaker 1: can't build a decent spaceship though, no, we can't build

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Speaker 1: a decent spaceship. However, we have figured out that you

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Speaker 1: can introduce a computer virus as long as you have

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Speaker 1: an Apple MacBook laptop, which to this day, to this day,

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Speaker 1: my friend, that's still that's still bothered me. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: spoiler alert again, guys. But but yeah, so, so people

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Speaker 1: people started seeing UFOs, and it is correct to call

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Speaker 1: them that because I think there's one of the distinctions

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Speaker 1: that we're about to make, right. A UFO unidentified flying

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Speaker 1: object is simply that. Yeah, it just means that you

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Speaker 1: personally cannot identify what that object is. It doesn't mean

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Speaker 1: it's unidentify a ball. It may very well be that

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Speaker 1: there's a small group of people who know exactly what

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Speaker 1: that object is, like the like the stealth technology we

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Speaker 1: were just talking about. Those stealth programs when they were

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Speaker 1: under development, were strict secrets and only a few people,

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Speaker 1: relatively few people knew about them. Anyone outside that who

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Speaker 1: would have seen one of these aircraft flying around, naturally,

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Speaker 1: they would not be able to identify it. There was

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Speaker 1: no correlative they could say, oh, this looked like a

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Speaker 1: such and such. These things look really crazy. So calling

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Speaker 1: it a UFO is perfectly fine, you cannot identify it. Calling.

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Speaker 1: Making the leap from UFO to a IN is a

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Speaker 1: little bit of a problem. So this brings us to

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Speaker 1: probably the most famous alien incident in all of the

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Speaker 1: United States history. Something that is that factors into numerous,

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Speaker 1: I'd say dozens, if not hundreds, of different conspiracy theories,

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Speaker 1: the Roswell incident. Now, Roswell is in New Mexico, which,

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Speaker 1: for those of you who are not in the United States,

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Speaker 1: is a completely separate state from Nevada. It's in a

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Speaker 1: completely different place. And you know, sometimes there's a pet

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Speaker 1: peeve of mine, Jonathan, is that people often conflate Area

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Speaker 1: fifty one or Groom Lake and the incident in Roswell, Right,

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Speaker 1: and so two things that these are incidence separated both

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Speaker 1: in space and time. Right, Roswell, New Mexico is hundreds

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Speaker 1: of miles away from Area fifty one, like almost a

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Speaker 1: thou miles away, And I think it's somewhere around eight

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Speaker 1: hundred miles away and eight actually one thousand, four hundred

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Speaker 1: sixteen kilometers according to Google Maps. Thank you Google Maps

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Speaker 1: for letting me know how far apart Roswell, New Mexico

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Speaker 1: in Area fifty one are. That's exactly it. Uh So,

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Speaker 1: by the way, don't don't rely upon Google Maps for

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Speaker 1: turn by turn directions to Area fifty one. You know

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Speaker 1: you'll just end up in Las Vegas. Did you Did

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Speaker 1: you do it by d I did it by by driving,

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Speaker 1: although walking would have been hilarious. Walking would have been like,

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Speaker 1: at this point people are going to ask you to

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Speaker 1: turn around? Uh so, or at this point you've probably

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Speaker 1: died of dehydration. So the other thing I said was

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Speaker 1: that their separated by time. The Roswell incident happened on

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Speaker 1: July second, nineteen seven. So for those of you who

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Speaker 1: listened to our first episode about Area fifty one, you

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Speaker 1: remember that it was the mid nineteen fifties when the

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Speaker 1: c i A settled on Groom Lake as the the

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Speaker 1: future home of Area fifty one. It was when construction began,

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Speaker 1: So this is almost a decade apart when of these

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Speaker 1: two events. So then you have the The actual story

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Speaker 1: of the Roswell incident is that some people in Roswell,

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Speaker 1: New Mexico, I saw some strange floating objects that they

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Speaker 1: could not identify un identified flying objects. Sometimes they're referred

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Speaker 1: to as being kind of disc shaped, but part of

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Speaker 1: the problem is that we're so far distanced from the

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Speaker 1: initial event that the story has not remained consistent through

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Speaker 1: all the different retellings. Yeah, and I can speak to

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Speaker 1: a little bit of that because we have we have

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Speaker 1: some copies of the newspaper articles that changed, and because

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Speaker 1: they changed. Uh, there's a very interesting thing here. It's

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Speaker 1: the interpretation of that. Uh, people who believe that there

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Speaker 1: was some sort of extraterrestrial incident. Somebody, somebody managed to

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Speaker 1: drive a spacecraft well enough to get to Earth but

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Speaker 1: not well enough to stay above Earth, right, and then uh,

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Speaker 1: the news found out about it and they got shut

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Speaker 1: down there to change their story or did they just

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Speaker 1: correct the reporting when they had more information. That's a

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Speaker 1: that's a good question, Like did did some gentlemen wearing

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Speaker 1: black suits and sunglasses show up at the newspaper and

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Speaker 1: say you need to you need to address this. I mean,

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Speaker 1: and Jonathan, that's possible. But if it happened, it wasn't

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Speaker 1: because of aliens, That's right, So get moving on. We're

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Speaker 1: talking about the crash. Just spotting these objects in the

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Speaker 1: air wasn't the only thing that happened with Roswell incident.

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Speaker 1: What specifically went on from there was that some people

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Speaker 1: found debris on the ground and it was described as

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Speaker 1: being shiny and metallic in nature. No one was really

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Speaker 1: sure what it was actually made of at the time,

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Speaker 1: and so this this incident started to become embellished upon

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Speaker 1: over time. In fact, there's some versions of the story

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Speaker 1: where they didn't just find physical debris from some flying object,

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Speaker 1: but also bodies. And this is where we get into

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Speaker 1: the alien stuff, where supposedly there were these bodies of

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Speaker 1: creatures that had unusual features and they were whisked away

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Speaker 1: by the government. Uh. And ultimately some people say that

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Speaker 1: that's they went to Area fifty one. The purpose was

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Speaker 1: not to study strange materials, although we did eventually get

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Speaker 1: some Soviet aircraft at Area fifty one where they were

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Speaker 1: tested like the bigs, But it's not meant to be

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Speaker 1: a scientific laboratory. That's not the purpose of Every fifty one.

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Speaker 1: So it would make no sense to send any kind

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Speaker 1: of extraterrestrials there. It also doesn't make sense to send

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Speaker 1: extra terrestrial bodies to a place that hasn't been built yet.

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Speaker 1: That's a that's a big one. That's a it's a

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Speaker 1: bump in the Yeah, it's a little bit of a

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Speaker 1: little bit of a problem with the story. Now what

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Speaker 1: the official story from the government was that the debris

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Speaker 1: came from weather balloons and that there were no bodies.

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Speaker 1: In fact, that we should stay right now, there's no

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Speaker 1: evid it's at all that anyone ever came across a body.

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Speaker 1: That was something that was added to this story over time. Yeah, sorry, guys.

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Speaker 1: That autopsy on YouTube is most likely a hope. It's

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Speaker 1: it's yeah, there there are some special effects UH experts

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Speaker 1: who have actually commented on it and somewhat derisively. So

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Speaker 1: we're like, like, they should have hired me. I could

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Speaker 1: have done a much better job. But there is there

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Speaker 1: There is no no hard evidence that there was even

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Speaker 1: from the debris they found when they were looking at it,

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Speaker 1: because there really was debris, right and they really did

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Speaker 1: find it, but they didn't find enough to have built

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Speaker 1: an entire thing, yeah, to carry a person. You know this.

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Speaker 1: So the official story from the government was at these

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Speaker 1: were weather balloons. They were meant specifically to UH to

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Speaker 1: study the weather at high altitudes. Now, as it turns out,

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Speaker 1: that's not the real story. But we will get to

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Speaker 1: there in a second. We'll be back to talk about

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Speaker 1: more mythology of Area fifty one in just a moment. So, uh,

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Speaker 1: this was one of those things where people were saying,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't look like any weather balloon I've ever seen,

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Speaker 1: which is true. It did. I've seen both balloons and

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Speaker 1: the weathers, and this is neither of those two things.

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Speaker 1: So moving on to the the you know, kind of

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Speaker 1: looking at the story another way. One version of this

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Speaker 1: that I was not aware of until a friend of

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Speaker 1: the show, Nate Lenkson, he's the editor of Wired Dot

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Speaker 1: Code Dot uk. Uh. He he turned me on to this.

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Speaker 1: I had never heard about this. It's a book written

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Speaker 1: by Annie Jacobson called Area fifty one and Uncensored History

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Speaker 1: of America's top secret military base. Now full disclosure, I

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Speaker 1: have not read this book yet. I read a synopsis

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Speaker 1: of the book and a synopsis of the story we're

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Speaker 1: about the cover, So this may not actually be accurate

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Speaker 1: to the book itself. I want to make that clear.

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Speaker 1: I've also heard that most of the book is pretty

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Speaker 1: much what we covered in our first two episodes of

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Speaker 1: the podcast, a very thorough description of the history of

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Speaker 1: Vera fifty one. But there's a section apparently devoted to

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Speaker 1: the Roswell incident and every fifty one supposed involvement in that,

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Speaker 1: in which the story gets even weirder, I think than aliens.

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Speaker 1: And this story involves Nazis and communists, so you know,

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Speaker 1: it's only missing Indiana Jones to make it really a

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Speaker 1: Hollywood film. So the story that she tells according to

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Speaker 1: a source, I don't know what her source was, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: a source. I don't know if she names the source

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Speaker 1: in the book. The synopsis, I said, said anonymous, But

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Speaker 1: again I haven't read the book. But according to the synopsis,

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Speaker 1: the story is that a Nazi doctor, Joseph Mingla, actually

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Speaker 1: the s S officer who survived the World War two

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Speaker 1: and then and then eventually escaped to South America, that

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Speaker 1: Mingola had worked on behalf of Joseph Stalin doing these

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Speaker 1: horrific procedures on children, resulting in children around the age

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Speaker 1: of twelve with abnormally shaped heads, large eyes that are

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Speaker 1: of an odd shape, and that the whole idea was

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Speaker 1: that they were going to pilot some simple aircraft to

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Speaker 1: fly around the United States and land and essentially star

369
00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:37,720
Speaker 1: crap up, yeah, scare people, Yeah, exactly, this idea that

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Speaker 1: they would this idea that they would fake aliens. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: in order to create a panic, essentially doing a war

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Speaker 1: of the World's type event, uh, one step closer to

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Speaker 1: reality or of the world's For those who don't remember

374
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Speaker 1: or don't know what this is, um, it was a

375
00:22:57,160 --> 00:23:02,400
Speaker 1: an Orson Wells project, a radio program that was portrayed

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Speaker 1: in such a way that people who tuned in, without

377
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Speaker 1: knowing that it was actually a fictionalized radio program, began

378
00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:13,720
Speaker 1: to think that there was actually, uh, an alien invasion happening.

379
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Speaker 1: It was this sort of famous little blip on the

380
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Speaker 1: radar of of people freaking out because they weren't aware that,

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00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:26,080
Speaker 1: in fact, it was a fictional account, uh, something that

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Speaker 1: we still see today, uh with things like Mermaids. At

383
00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:34,280
Speaker 1: any rate. That's enough commentary on that. But yeah, the uh,

384
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Speaker 1: the story that she relays is that Mingola had done

385
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Speaker 1: these these horror horrific procedures and that the bodies found

386
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Speaker 1: at the Roswal incidant, which remember, there was never any

387
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Speaker 1: evidence that bodies were found were in fact human children

388
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Speaker 1: that then were whisked away. I think there are some

389
00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:57,680
Speaker 1: big problems with this particular story. Problem. No one Mingola

390
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Speaker 1: was on the run from the Soviets, he did not.

391
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Speaker 1: I mean, the Soviets were the ones who were who

392
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Speaker 1: were approaching when Hitler committed suicide, right, they'd rather than

393
00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:12,240
Speaker 1: be captured by the Soviets. Um Hitler committed suicide, and

394
00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:16,800
Speaker 1: Mingola was trying to escape with records that he had,

395
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Speaker 1: uh he had created at Auschwitz. Um So, he eventually

396
00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:25,280
Speaker 1: escaped Germany. He did at one point go back into

397
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Speaker 1: Soviet occupied territory in order to retrieve some of these documents,

398
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Speaker 1: but he evaded capture and eventually escaped to South America

399
00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:39,080
Speaker 1: and then moved around quite a bit while Uh yeah, yeah,

400
00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:41,600
Speaker 1: he was being he was being pursued by agents both

401
00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:46,440
Speaker 1: Soviet and American. And so it's unlikely that he would

402
00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:51,199
Speaker 1: have collaborated with Joseph Stalin and certainly unlikely that he

403
00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:57,040
Speaker 1: would have been allowed to escape. Yeah, the Soviets. Um So,

404
00:24:57,440 --> 00:25:01,280
Speaker 1: that already is a problem. Secondly, it would be a

405
00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:05,760
Speaker 1: real problem that the idea of people being fooled long

406
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Speaker 1: enough to not realize these were humans, right, Yeah, And

407
00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:12,240
Speaker 1: then there's the other there's the other question. Why would

408
00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:16,280
Speaker 1: they crash there and not in a more occupied place.

409
00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:19,600
Speaker 1: Why not in New York City or something like that why, um,

410
00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:22,960
Speaker 1: you know they probably get spotted. But then also, and

411
00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:27,200
Speaker 1: this this is a cruel thing to say, but why

412
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Speaker 1: would you specifically need that one very evil man to

413
00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:36,240
Speaker 1: do that sort of operation? Right? Exactly, It's not like

414
00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:38,479
Speaker 1: if you're going to if you're going to do something

415
00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:45,240
Speaker 1: so inhuman, uh is there I mean, narratively it's a

416
00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:48,359
Speaker 1: great story in the sense that there only one person

417
00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:51,400
Speaker 1: is this twisted to pull this off? But in reality

418
00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:53,760
Speaker 1: we know, unfortunately that's not the case that if you

419
00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:58,040
Speaker 1: really did have the the will to do something this horrible,

420
00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:01,840
Speaker 1: you could probably do without having to to go after

421
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Speaker 1: the devil himself. Right, I mean, the whole story is

422
00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:10,120
Speaker 1: is meant to appeal to our dark imaginations, and it's

423
00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:11,840
Speaker 1: a terrible thing, but it's also one of those things

424
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:14,360
Speaker 1: that you could say, yeah, I can imagine this actually

425
00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:18,240
Speaker 1: playing out in some way. Ultimately, you also have to

426
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Speaker 1: ask the question, what's the effect you're going for? If

427
00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:22,800
Speaker 1: the effect you're going for is to cause a panic,

428
00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:24,960
Speaker 1: I can't think of anything that would have caused a

429
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:28,639
Speaker 1: bigger panic than having Soviet airmen being able to land

430
00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:33,639
Speaker 1: in U. S. Territory without any alien cover story. You

431
00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:37,960
Speaker 1: don't need that to cause a scare. There's really no

432
00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:42,760
Speaker 1: benefit here, like the the the entire operation does not

433
00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:47,240
Speaker 1: seem to have an actual return on investments, so it

434
00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:51,280
Speaker 1: doesn't make sense from that perspective either. So the Nazis

435
00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:54,520
Speaker 1: that are involved in in some other conspiracy theories about

436
00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:58,720
Speaker 1: Avery fifty one, like the the UFOs that are seen

437
00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:03,520
Speaker 1: are product of, you know, Nazi experiments towards the close

438
00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:07,800
Speaker 1: of the war. And a lot of that comes from

439
00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:11,600
Speaker 1: a very real, uh and kind of frightening thing that

440
00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:15,280
Speaker 1: the United States did with Operation paper Clip, which you

441
00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:19,120
Speaker 1: know about when they brought over some surviving scientists from

442
00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:22,479
Speaker 1: Germany right right right when you're when you're when you

443
00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:26,760
Speaker 1: get the rockets scientists specifically who worked over in Germany

444
00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:29,720
Speaker 1: to then come to the United States and continue their

445
00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:34,200
Speaker 1: work in science and and rocketry and specifically, but now

446
00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:36,399
Speaker 1: they're working for a different boss. They're working with the

447
00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:40,080
Speaker 1: United States government, uh and partly because they're getting guarantees

448
00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:42,000
Speaker 1: from the U. S Government that they won't be tried

449
00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:45,920
Speaker 1: as criminals for their work for the Nazi regime. So yeah,

450
00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:49,640
Speaker 1: there's certain real, real things that were happening in history

451
00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:53,679
Speaker 1: that we're probably enough to help fuel this kind of

452
00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:58,679
Speaker 1: conspiracy here in the United States. But you know, you

453
00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:02,359
Speaker 1: didn't have to look far to see real instances of

454
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:07,280
Speaker 1: some pretty shady dealings on both sides, uh, but without

455
00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:11,800
Speaker 1: having to make stuff upright and now, Also one thing

456
00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:15,600
Speaker 1: that didn't help the government's case, and as far as

457
00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:20,160
Speaker 1: their official story goes, is that it turned out they

458
00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:23,159
Speaker 1: they were telling the truth, but telling it slant, as

459
00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:25,720
Speaker 1: Emily Dickinson would say, right they were. They were not

460
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:30,199
Speaker 1: weather balloons that were being uh deployed out over in

461
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:33,359
Speaker 1: New Mexico. There were balloons though, Yeah, there were balloons

462
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:36,360
Speaker 1: that were part of a spy program called Project Mogul,

463
00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:40,640
Speaker 1: which was a top secret experiment using high altitude balloons

464
00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:44,280
Speaker 1: that were carrying microphones. And the idea was the microphones

465
00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:48,560
Speaker 1: would be able to detect sounds from Soviet nuclear tests,

466
00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:51,680
Speaker 1: so that we in the United States would have a

467
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:54,080
Speaker 1: clue when that was going on, and we that would

468
00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:57,080
Speaker 1: help us kind of know how far along the Soviets

469
00:28:57,080 --> 00:29:01,560
Speaker 1: were with their nuclear program compared to our own nuclear program.

470
00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:04,320
Speaker 1: So there was again this need for secrecy. We didn't

471
00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:06,640
Speaker 1: want the Soviets to know that we, in fact had

472
00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:10,840
Speaker 1: developed this technology to listen out for uh, these these

473
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:14,280
Speaker 1: sound waves, um, because we didn't want them to try

474
00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:16,600
Speaker 1: and come up with different ways of testing their nuclear

475
00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:20,400
Speaker 1: arms and therefore hiding it from us, so reverse engineering

476
00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:22,840
Speaker 1: it and hearing what we're doing exactly. That's also another

477
00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:26,720
Speaker 1: another good point. So the cover story of weather balloons

478
00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:30,160
Speaker 1: was necessary to protect the secrecy of the spy program,

479
00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:32,040
Speaker 1: but it had nothing to do with aliens. It had

480
00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:35,160
Speaker 1: everything to do with spying it. Maybe it might have

481
00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:38,440
Speaker 1: even been to the government's benefit that people were latching

482
00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:41,320
Speaker 1: on to the aliens story because it took attention away

483
00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:44,480
Speaker 1: from what it was really meant to do. So there's

484
00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:48,560
Speaker 1: not a whole lot of incentive upon the government's part

485
00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:52,760
Speaker 1: to come out and say specifically, guys, no, it's not aliens,

486
00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:55,640
Speaker 1: because it helped keep the attention away. But you don't

487
00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:57,560
Speaker 1: want it to You don't want that story to run

488
00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:02,080
Speaker 1: rampant either, because it could legitimately causing either a panic

489
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:05,960
Speaker 1: or just a growing distrust in the government itself. Sure,

490
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:09,920
Speaker 1: and they don't need any help. That's regardless of what

491
00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:15,080
Speaker 1: what what your political beliefs are. We speaking of beliefs,

492
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:18,560
Speaker 1: this is going to be a lot of fun for

493
00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:21,920
Speaker 1: me personally, I think for you too. Because one thing

494
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:26,280
Speaker 1: that always keeps the Area fifty one legends alive is

495
00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:29,440
Speaker 1: that there. It seems like every year there's someone who

496
00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:34,360
Speaker 1: comes out and says, well, I was person exit place.

497
00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:38,840
Speaker 1: Why I know the truth, Ryan, Now I will finally

498
00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:44,400
Speaker 1: reveal it. And you're thinking of someone specific in this case, right,

499
00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:49,320
Speaker 1: I am specifically thinking of Bob Lazar. Yeah, Robert Lazar

500
00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:52,520
Speaker 1: or Bob Lazar, who claimed to have worked on a

501
00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:55,280
Speaker 1: project in which the military had come into possession of

502
00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:59,640
Speaker 1: alien technology, and his job was to reverse engineer that

503
00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:02,160
Speaker 1: al and technology to learn how it works so that

504
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:04,360
Speaker 1: we could take advantage of that tech here on Earth

505
00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:07,800
Speaker 1: and thus kind of leap forward what would normally be

506
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:11,160
Speaker 1: the process of developing TEX so instead of you know,

507
00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:17,040
Speaker 1: constantly testing and improving and refining, we could jump straight ahead,

508
00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:21,040
Speaker 1: you know, skip eight steps in that process and jump

509
00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:24,760
Speaker 1: straight to you know, miraculous smartphones that react to our touch,

510
00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:27,080
Speaker 1: that kind of thing. And so he claimed that he

511
00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:29,360
Speaker 1: had worked at a facility that was near Groom Lake,

512
00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:33,000
Speaker 1: so not technically at Area fifty one, but adjacent to it.

513
00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:35,960
Speaker 1: It was the real secret place. It's called S four. Yeah,

514
00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:38,280
Speaker 1: it's it's so secret that it didn't even get a

515
00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:40,840
Speaker 1: full name. Um, it just gets a letter and a

516
00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:43,960
Speaker 1: number of designation and it's he said that it housed

517
00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:47,880
Speaker 1: no fewer than nine spacecraft. Uh. Here's the thing that

518
00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:51,719
Speaker 1: a lot of his his claims to his background don't

519
00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:55,920
Speaker 1: check out right. Like he he claims to have advanced

520
00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:58,920
Speaker 1: degrees from m I. T and from cal Tech, but

521
00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:01,320
Speaker 1: there's no record of him there. Now. Granted, some people

522
00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:05,560
Speaker 1: say that that's evidence of the conspiracy. Yeah, that in fact,

523
00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:08,840
Speaker 1: this shows that the government was so interested in keeping

524
00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:11,560
Speaker 1: it a secret that they have wiped clean his background.

525
00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:13,760
Speaker 1: Although to do that you would also have to white

526
00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:17,880
Speaker 1: clean the memories of every professor and every student who

527
00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:21,760
Speaker 1: would have also attended. And you see that this this

528
00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:24,800
Speaker 1: kind of domino effect. How how wide those ripples would

529
00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:26,800
Speaker 1: have to go in order for this to remain an

530
00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:32,200
Speaker 1: effective secret? It becomes unmanageable at some point. Wouldn't it

531
00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:36,160
Speaker 1: be easier at this point? My question would be for

532
00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:39,600
Speaker 1: many of these cases is why did someone go to

533
00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:44,400
Speaker 1: so such great links to keep you alive? Because from

534
00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:48,280
Speaker 1: from a government's perspective, we know that if they're picking

535
00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:51,240
Speaker 1: one kind of skull degree, they'll pick the easier one,

536
00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:55,160
Speaker 1: which is usually an assisted fall off a building or

537
00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:58,960
Speaker 1: something like that. You know, assassination is just off the table, right,

538
00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:01,600
Speaker 1: then that can ever be done? Like, yeah, how do

539
00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:05,040
Speaker 1: you how do you uh, if it did come down

540
00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:09,480
Speaker 1: to there's this one person who has tons of information,

541
00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:14,280
Speaker 1: like it's essentially Snowden. Yeah, there's Edward Snowden of Area

542
00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:16,840
Speaker 1: fifty one, who is ready, he has access to all

543
00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:20,680
Speaker 1: the information. He's ready to spill the beans. Um, and

544
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:23,600
Speaker 1: you want to discredit him, you don't go to every

545
00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:28,040
Speaker 1: single person in his past. Don't tell anybody about this, right, Yeah,

546
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:30,800
Speaker 1: it's just it's just not practical, right, It's it's it

547
00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:34,480
Speaker 1: would be a monumental task. So essentially what we're getting

548
00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:39,040
Speaker 1: round too is that lazars Um his claims to his

549
00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:43,720
Speaker 1: his credentials are suspect, right, and that that is a

550
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:46,920
Speaker 1: very diplomatic way to put it. Of course, you know,

551
00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:49,080
Speaker 1: we're also showing that his side of it is that

552
00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:52,280
Speaker 1: someone is a racing his past to discredit him. As

553
00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:57,200
Speaker 1: as you said, you know, Jonathan, recently, Mr Lazar in

554
00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:01,120
Speaker 1: the past few years went uh back into the public

555
00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:03,920
Speaker 1: eye now I mean, I guess more into the mainstream

556
00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:09,040
Speaker 1: public eye, and he was asked to react to the

557
00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:14,160
Speaker 1: CIA's official admittance uh of area fifty ones existence, which

558
00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:15,720
Speaker 1: as we know, it didn't happen for a little while.

559
00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:19,920
Speaker 1: And uh he said he was not impressed because this

560
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:23,279
Speaker 1: was a very tiny baby step forward. I think that's

561
00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:26,759
Speaker 1: the quote he used. And uh he was waiting for

562
00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:30,520
Speaker 1: them to reveal S four, which is the site he

563
00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:33,200
Speaker 1: says he worked at reverse engineering these things. Now, he

564
00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:39,240
Speaker 1: has many, many claims. Uh. He speaks at length about

565
00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:46,440
Speaker 1: interspecial politics, about injuries he's suffered by technology that we

566
00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:50,680
Speaker 1: won't hear about for several decades. Uh. But I I

567
00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:54,840
Speaker 1: really like the point you made that. Um. One of

568
00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:58,040
Speaker 1: the other things people who believe him see his proof

569
00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:03,399
Speaker 1: is um what they perceive as a inexplicable jump in technology,

570
00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:06,200
Speaker 1: right right, Well, the truth is that if you look

571
00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:10,000
Speaker 1: at any technology closely enough, you will see incremental improvements.

572
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:14,759
Speaker 1: It's very, very rare that we have someone come out

573
00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:17,279
Speaker 1: with a brand new piece of technology that has no

574
00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:22,879
Speaker 1: precedent to it, right, Yeah, exactly, Television, perfect example. So, yeah,

575
00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:25,280
Speaker 1: you look at these things like television was really building

576
00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:28,160
Speaker 1: upon the developments of radio, and you think, okay, well

577
00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:30,960
Speaker 1: what about Tesla and Marconi. Well they were working on

578
00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:35,440
Speaker 1: research that had preceded them as well. These are all

579
00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:38,040
Speaker 1: if you if you really dig down into it, you know,

580
00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:40,000
Speaker 1: you look at the invention of the light bulb, you

581
00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:42,080
Speaker 1: look at all of these sort of inventions that we

582
00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:46,120
Speaker 1: we take for granted. We like the stories that say

583
00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:49,160
Speaker 1: this inventor came up with this idea and implemented it,

584
00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:52,680
Speaker 1: and now it exists and before it never did. Usually

585
00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:55,480
Speaker 1: the truth is much more complicated, with lots of different

586
00:35:55,520 --> 00:36:00,440
Speaker 1: things leading into that invention, including earlier invention that may

587
00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:04,520
Speaker 1: not have been practical but showed a working concept, and

588
00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:07,799
Speaker 1: then this other inventor like Thomas Edison comes along and

589
00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:11,600
Speaker 1: takes that takes that concept and makes it practical. So

590
00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:14,160
Speaker 1: now it's something that we can actually use as opposed

591
00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:16,879
Speaker 1: to just a cool idea, but we didn't know how

592
00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:20,880
Speaker 1: to to you know, capitalize on it. So you know,

593
00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:24,600
Speaker 1: I think most of the advances we've seen over the

594
00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:27,720
Speaker 1: over the decades have been examples of this where people

595
00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:32,520
Speaker 1: have made incremental improvements and maybe grab together multiple pieces

596
00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:36,040
Speaker 1: of technology and then and then package them in such

597
00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:38,439
Speaker 1: a way that it's a really compelling piece of tech.

598
00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:41,880
Speaker 1: But if you break it down component by component, you

599
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:47,840
Speaker 1: start to see the actual process of this creating something,

600
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:51,160
Speaker 1: refining it, tweaking and putting it out again, refining it again.

601
00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:57,280
Speaker 1: I don't see any enormous leaps where someone has jumped

602
00:36:57,719 --> 00:37:01,400
Speaker 1: well ahead of everywhere else. Maybe Claude Shan and his uh,

603
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:06,920
Speaker 1: his computer science with using binary logic, his approach to

604
00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:09,759
Speaker 1: computer science was pretty much fully formed. But that's kind

605
00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:13,000
Speaker 1: of similar to Albert Einstein and his theories of relativity.

606
00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:16,760
Speaker 1: These were ideas that both men had developed over years,

607
00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:20,799
Speaker 1: and then they presented them as complete pictures. So to us,

608
00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:24,200
Speaker 1: the outsiders, it looks like a person just came up

609
00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:28,840
Speaker 1: with a brilliant process, fully formed instantaneously. The truth is

610
00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:31,239
Speaker 1: it actually took several years to build that up, and

611
00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:36,240
Speaker 1: even then they were building on previous thoughts and knowledge.

612
00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:39,200
Speaker 1: They were just incorporating it in a new way. Yeah,

613
00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:42,960
Speaker 1: but what about the lasers. Okay, so lasers are an issue, right, Um,

614
00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:45,760
Speaker 1: I'm glad you brought up lasers. One of the things

615
00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:48,960
Speaker 1: that have has often been attributed to Area fifty one

616
00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:55,120
Speaker 1: is energy weapons. So this ties into the strategic defense initiative,

617
00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:59,680
Speaker 1: often referred to derisively as star wars. Yeah, this was

618
00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:02,440
Speaker 1: the Graham in the nineteen eighties, and I promise that

619
00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:06,280
Speaker 1: I will do an episode about the Star Wars program

620
00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:09,560
Speaker 1: that will go into full detail. I know, I've got

621
00:38:09,560 --> 00:38:11,160
Speaker 1: a lot of listeners who have asked me to do it,

622
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:13,080
Speaker 1: and I really want to at some point, but it's

623
00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:15,239
Speaker 1: gonna be a little bit further down the road. But

624
00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:17,080
Speaker 1: it's um. You know. The whole idea was that it

625
00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:19,279
Speaker 1: was going to be a system that would shoot down

626
00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:23,120
Speaker 1: incoming i C b M S intercontinental ballistic missiles. This

627
00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:25,799
Speaker 1: was the height of the Cold War nineteen eighties. I mean,

628
00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:29,160
Speaker 1: propaganda was ridiculous in both the Soviet Union and the

629
00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:32,200
Speaker 1: United States. I grew up in that era, and I remember,

630
00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:34,560
Speaker 1: like the Russians being the bad guys all the time,

631
00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:38,200
Speaker 1: you know, from from uh everything from Red Dawn to

632
00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:42,560
Speaker 1: Rocky four. So anyway, um, or was it three? It

633
00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:45,080
Speaker 1: might have been three Rocky three? Uh. At any rate,

634
00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:49,040
Speaker 1: the the idea here was that the energy weapons that

635
00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:52,000
Speaker 1: would shoot down these missiles were supposedly under development at

636
00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:55,160
Speaker 1: Area fifty one. Again not really the purpose for Area

637
00:38:55,239 --> 00:38:58,120
Speaker 1: fifty one. I mean you could you could understand them,

638
00:38:58,239 --> 00:39:01,560
Speaker 1: uh testing such a vice because that is kind of

639
00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:04,520
Speaker 1: what they were doing. But they were mostly testing airborne things,

640
00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:09,879
Speaker 1: not not ground to air technology. It was mostly aircraft

641
00:39:10,040 --> 00:39:13,239
Speaker 1: that they were really focusing on, and not offensive aircraft,

642
00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:16,279
Speaker 1: just spycraft. Yeah, I mean, there are some of the

643
00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:19,360
Speaker 1: drones they worked on probably had offensive but yeah, it

644
00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:22,920
Speaker 1: was it was mostly again, it was mostly reconnaissance type stuff.

645
00:39:23,719 --> 00:39:25,759
Speaker 1: We've got more to say about the mythology of area

646
00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:36,359
Speaker 1: fifty one after this quick break. So then you have

647
00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:41,640
Speaker 1: the weather control devices, another very popular conspiracy theory of it. So,

648
00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:45,600
Speaker 1: first of all, we don't have any technology powerful enough

649
00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:49,120
Speaker 1: to control the weather. Weather is an incredibly chaotic system

650
00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:51,239
Speaker 1: that we do not fully understand it. Before you can

651
00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:53,440
Speaker 1: under before you can really control something, you have to

652
00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:57,040
Speaker 1: at least have some understanding of how it works. Now,

653
00:39:57,160 --> 00:40:03,239
Speaker 1: people have conducted experiments with weather manipulation, things like influence it,

654
00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:06,360
Speaker 1: like seeding clouds, that kind of thing. But even this,

655
00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:10,160
Speaker 1: we can't be fully sure how effective they are, right,

656
00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:12,640
Speaker 1: Because here's the problem is that you can't you can't

657
00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:16,600
Speaker 1: have a scientific consensus on whether or not something is

658
00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:19,840
Speaker 1: effective unless you're able to have a control group. And

659
00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:22,279
Speaker 1: you can't really have a control group with whether I

660
00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:26,560
Speaker 1: mean you can you can have as close to the same, uh,

661
00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:30,759
Speaker 1: kind of elements in play in two different and two

662
00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:33,560
Speaker 1: different instances, and one you seed the cloud and one

663
00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:35,880
Speaker 1: you don't, and then you see how much rain results.

664
00:40:36,200 --> 00:40:39,280
Speaker 1: But even then again, whether it's such a complex system

665
00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:42,000
Speaker 1: that you can't you can't be completely certain that the

666
00:40:42,040 --> 00:40:47,080
Speaker 1: seeding is the effective agent, right, And you know the

667
00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:49,960
Speaker 1: problem with whether is it's a chaotic system that is

668
00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:54,719
Speaker 1: one massive cluster of systems. So any two points you

669
00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:58,600
Speaker 1: pick are ultimately in the same system, so are they

670
00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:01,239
Speaker 1: really is there a control tough and stuff. And then

671
00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:03,759
Speaker 1: on top of that, you know things like HARP, which

672
00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:06,720
Speaker 1: I'm sure you guys have talked about, which was designed

673
00:41:06,719 --> 00:41:11,120
Speaker 1: to to actually look at interactions in the ionosphere. Now,

674
00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:15,399
Speaker 1: the isonosphere around Earth can conduct electricity. In fact, when

675
00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:17,840
Speaker 1: we get a big electrical impulse in there from something

676
00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:21,120
Speaker 1: like a solar flare or coronal mass ejection, it can

677
00:41:21,160 --> 00:41:26,200
Speaker 1: make the auroras at the polls really active because that's

678
00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:29,800
Speaker 1: that's kind of the convergence point for this electric field.

679
00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:33,879
Speaker 1: And uh, and so there's certainly things that interact with

680
00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:39,160
Speaker 1: atmospheric um phenomena, but we still can't control the weather there.

681
00:41:39,600 --> 00:41:42,120
Speaker 1: Now it doesn't help. I'm just gonna be honest with you, Jonathan,

682
00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:46,680
Speaker 1: it does not help uh to dispel any of the

683
00:41:46,719 --> 00:41:49,880
Speaker 1: speculation about places like HARP, you know, when it was

684
00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:55,480
Speaker 1: an operation, because the descriptions from from the government and

685
00:41:55,520 --> 00:41:59,520
Speaker 1: from HARP about what they were doing we're just cartooniously

686
00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:02,400
Speaker 1: vague in some ways. So, yeah, it's a high frequency

687
00:42:02,440 --> 00:42:06,960
Speaker 1: active auroral research program, which already you're you're thinking, they're

688
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:08,680
Speaker 1: at least a couple of words in there that I'm

689
00:42:08,680 --> 00:42:11,560
Speaker 1: not entirely sure what they're supposed to mean. Um. And

690
00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:15,200
Speaker 1: it really was about beaming energy into the ionosphere. To

691
00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:18,440
Speaker 1: the goal for HARP, at least on the government side,

692
00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:21,279
Speaker 1: that the military funded side, was can we use the

693
00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:24,719
Speaker 1: ionosphere as a conduit through which we can communicate with

694
00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:28,279
Speaker 1: distant vehicles like submarines that are under the water. I mean,

695
00:42:28,280 --> 00:42:31,080
Speaker 1: they really were hoping that this would be a way

696
00:42:31,120 --> 00:42:33,720
Speaker 1: of doing that. The scientists at HARP were mostly thinking,

697
00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:36,719
Speaker 1: if we can keep getting funding for what we want

698
00:42:36,719 --> 00:42:39,600
Speaker 1: to do, which is to study the ionosphere, then we

699
00:42:39,640 --> 00:42:42,360
Speaker 1: should try and keep that door open for the possibility

700
00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:45,799
Speaker 1: that this could be a communications tool, even if we

701
00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:50,200
Speaker 1: don't think it will really work. So um, which happens. Yeah,

702
00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:52,400
Speaker 1: that's that's essentially what happened with HARP. And then eventually

703
00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:54,879
Speaker 1: the military said, you know what, we're done and they

704
00:42:54,920 --> 00:42:58,279
Speaker 1: pulled the funding. So that was the story of HARP. Well,

705
00:42:58,320 --> 00:43:02,080
Speaker 1: a lot of those same stories apply to Area fifty one,

706
00:43:02,200 --> 00:43:06,000
Speaker 1: but there's no evidence that there were any weather control

707
00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:09,560
Speaker 1: systems under development. There's certainly no evidence that anything ever

708
00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:14,279
Speaker 1: did any actual weather manipulation. So uh yeah, yeah, that

709
00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:17,600
Speaker 1: just doesn't that doesn't really fly. Um. And then if

710
00:43:17,640 --> 00:43:20,520
Speaker 1: there's a piece of tech and science fiction, there's a

711
00:43:20,640 --> 00:43:22,879
Speaker 1: chance that there's at least some story out there that

712
00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:26,440
Speaker 1: there's something like that underdevelopment at Area fifty one. You know,

713
00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:30,640
Speaker 1: warp coils, teleporters, phasers, whatever you want to think about.

714
00:43:31,040 --> 00:43:33,680
Speaker 1: I realized I was focusing mainly on Star Trek there,

715
00:43:33,719 --> 00:43:36,160
Speaker 1: but but really all of that has at some time

716
00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:44,760
Speaker 1: or another been attributed to area. Warp drives, uh, teleportation devises, lightsabers, Yeah, okay,

717
00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:47,040
Speaker 1: thank you. No, we've got story guards, you know, we've

718
00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:51,680
Speaker 1: got there. So moving on another another host of conspiracy

719
00:43:51,719 --> 00:43:54,560
Speaker 1: theories around Area fifty one don't have so much to

720
00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:57,320
Speaker 1: do with what was actually going on at the facility,

721
00:43:57,400 --> 00:44:01,799
Speaker 1: but rather the mysterious chef do we organizations that were

722
00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:06,839
Speaker 1: behind it all. Yeah, like the real life Smoking Man exactly. Yeah.

723
00:44:06,920 --> 00:44:11,160
Speaker 1: So a lot of these conspiracy theories involve organizations that

724
00:44:11,239 --> 00:44:15,960
Speaker 1: have no official um uh designation, or they don't they

725
00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:19,840
Speaker 1: aren't officially acknowledged by the government, right. So some of

726
00:44:19,880 --> 00:44:22,879
Speaker 1: them have a designation, but they're not you know, they're

727
00:44:22,960 --> 00:44:25,920
Speaker 1: they're not in any government files because that's how secret

728
00:44:25,960 --> 00:44:31,000
Speaker 1: they are. And alleged designation. Yeah. So here the big

729
00:44:31,040 --> 00:44:33,319
Speaker 1: one for area of fifty one at least is the

730
00:44:33,360 --> 00:44:38,799
Speaker 1: Majestic Twelve. Majestic twelve is a group that existed many

731
00:44:38,880 --> 00:44:42,640
Speaker 1: years ago, according to the conspiracy lore, and included people

732
00:44:42,640 --> 00:44:45,440
Speaker 1: like President Truman as well as the head of CIA

733
00:44:45,719 --> 00:44:49,920
Speaker 1: and also like top businessmen, like essentially the most powerful

734
00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:52,480
Speaker 1: people in the United States at that time, and that

735
00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:57,080
Speaker 1: their purpose was to solidify power and control worldwide, right

736
00:44:57,120 --> 00:45:00,360
Speaker 1: like this was gonna be like the Trilateral Commission was

737
00:45:00,440 --> 00:45:03,080
Speaker 1: often referred to as being the secret organization for these

738
00:45:03,080 --> 00:45:04,960
Speaker 1: sort of purposes, which is not what it was for

739
00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:09,520
Speaker 1: um uh. There are other organizations that are meant to

740
00:45:09,600 --> 00:45:12,080
Speaker 1: be like think tanks that have often been kind of

741
00:45:12,120 --> 00:45:15,879
Speaker 1: compared to this sort of the Majestic Twelve however, is

742
00:45:16,120 --> 00:45:20,319
Speaker 1: one that appears to have been completely fabricated. Uh. There

743
00:45:20,360 --> 00:45:23,520
Speaker 1: was a UFO enthusiast named William L. Moore who produced

744
00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:28,080
Speaker 1: papers that he claimed proved the group's existence, But a

745
00:45:28,160 --> 00:45:30,120
Speaker 1: lot of people who have looked at these papers have

746
00:45:30,239 --> 00:45:32,759
Speaker 1: said that they don't hold up to scrutiny, That the

747
00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:35,640
Speaker 1: signatures that are there appeared to have been copied from

748
00:45:35,640 --> 00:45:39,520
Speaker 1: other documents and then pasted into them into the Majestic twelve,

749
00:45:39,600 --> 00:45:42,719
Speaker 1: the MJ twelve papers, uh, and that there does not

750
00:45:42,800 --> 00:45:46,040
Speaker 1: appear to be any sort of evidence supporting the existence

751
00:45:46,080 --> 00:45:49,879
Speaker 1: of such an organization. So if your organization isn't real,

752
00:45:50,080 --> 00:45:54,120
Speaker 1: then chances are it's not actually the secret one behind area.

753
00:45:57,080 --> 00:46:02,400
Speaker 1: So the so, the the idea that has become you know,

754
00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:04,560
Speaker 1: common currency in a lot of these beliefs is that

755
00:46:04,640 --> 00:46:09,880
Speaker 1: in J twelve did exist, but was had its world

756
00:46:10,040 --> 00:46:15,279
Speaker 1: rocked when news of the extraterrestrial crash in hit them.

757
00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:20,000
Speaker 1: And then they've they've spent the next few decades, um,

758
00:46:20,080 --> 00:46:21,480
Speaker 1: you know what, more and more I think maybe X

759
00:46:21,520 --> 00:46:24,400
Speaker 1: files was inspired some of these well, you know, and

760
00:46:24,600 --> 00:46:26,640
Speaker 1: it's very like m J twelve shares a lot of

761
00:46:26,640 --> 00:46:32,520
Speaker 1: the same kind of traits as other shadowy, conspiratorial uh,

762
00:46:33,280 --> 00:46:37,000
Speaker 1: most likely fictional organization. It's a trope. It's right up

763
00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:40,399
Speaker 1: there with things like the Illuminati, for example. Uh. Then

764
00:46:40,480 --> 00:46:44,400
Speaker 1: you have some real people who really do exist that

765
00:46:44,440 --> 00:46:48,160
Speaker 1: have kind of helped fuel the mystique around Area fifty one,

766
00:46:48,160 --> 00:46:52,240
Speaker 1: not necessarily, you know, purposefully setting out to define the mystique,

767
00:46:52,280 --> 00:46:54,840
Speaker 1: but they're part of it. And those are the Camo dudes.

768
00:46:55,719 --> 00:46:58,279
Speaker 1: That's that's what the folks in the Area fifty one

769
00:46:58,680 --> 00:47:02,000
Speaker 1: u biz, the people who like to watch Area fifty one,

770
00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:04,040
Speaker 1: not the ones who are actually working there. What they

771
00:47:04,120 --> 00:47:07,239
Speaker 1: referred to these guys as Camo dudes because they tend

772
00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:11,239
Speaker 1: to be wearing a desert camouflage outfits. You know, they're

773
00:47:11,239 --> 00:47:13,160
Speaker 1: out in Nevada, so they're wearing these these kind of

774
00:47:13,480 --> 00:47:18,799
Speaker 1: desert cam outfits. They travel in pairs, usually in in

775
00:47:18,960 --> 00:47:23,400
Speaker 1: four wheel drive vehicles, and they are, uh, the perimeter

776
00:47:23,480 --> 00:47:26,440
Speaker 1: guards essentially is what they serve as. So if someone

777
00:47:26,480 --> 00:47:30,320
Speaker 1: starts to come close to the Area fifty one borders,

778
00:47:30,880 --> 00:47:34,120
Speaker 1: then they may end up encountering a pair of these

779
00:47:34,200 --> 00:47:38,399
Speaker 1: Camo dudes who tend to not appear to be military.

780
00:47:39,000 --> 00:47:41,279
Speaker 1: The best guess is, in fact, they are probably part

781
00:47:41,320 --> 00:47:45,279
Speaker 1: of some contract group that ends up doing security for

782
00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:50,080
Speaker 1: things like military installations. So not not official military personnel,

783
00:47:50,160 --> 00:47:54,680
Speaker 1: but rather private citizens who are part of a contractor

784
00:47:55,680 --> 00:48:00,200
Speaker 1: and their job is to um to firmly suggest to

785
00:48:00,360 --> 00:48:03,879
Speaker 1: people that they should go somewhere else rather than than

786
00:48:04,239 --> 00:48:07,200
Speaker 1: try and get footage of the area. I have a

787
00:48:07,280 --> 00:48:11,000
Speaker 1: quotation for you from an incident. This is published in

788
00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:14,800
Speaker 1: the Huffington's post. A UFO conspiracy film crew was detained

789
00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:18,040
Speaker 1: at gunpoint at the Air fifty one Gate in two

790
00:48:18,120 --> 00:48:22,760
Speaker 1: thousand twelve. Here's here's the quotation. According to a crew member,

791
00:48:23,719 --> 00:48:27,000
Speaker 1: a camouflage dress guard carrying an M sixteen told a

792
00:48:27,040 --> 00:48:29,640
Speaker 1: member of this team, we could make you disappear and

793
00:48:29,680 --> 00:48:33,080
Speaker 1: your body will never be found. Uh. I'm gonna go

794
00:48:33,120 --> 00:48:35,839
Speaker 1: ahead and say maybe they're playing it up, but the

795
00:48:35,880 --> 00:48:39,959
Speaker 1: point is that, yes, you're not supposed to be there.

796
00:48:40,040 --> 00:48:44,000
Speaker 1: As we said in the first PEW podcast, don't don't

797
00:48:44,040 --> 00:48:46,160
Speaker 1: try to go you guys. Yeah, most of the most

798
00:48:46,160 --> 00:48:50,600
Speaker 1: of the reports I've read didn't have a point where

799
00:48:50,640 --> 00:48:55,320
Speaker 1: the the Camo dudes were actively aiming weapons in their direction,

800
00:48:55,440 --> 00:48:58,960
Speaker 1: but rather they were they were visibly armed. Yeah, so

801
00:48:59,040 --> 00:49:01,600
Speaker 1: that's one thing, you know. I was certainly they were armed,

802
00:49:01,640 --> 00:49:04,160
Speaker 1: but they weren't. I don't remember reading a whole lot

803
00:49:04,200 --> 00:49:06,640
Speaker 1: of them either brandishing their weapons like as far as

804
00:49:06,680 --> 00:49:10,080
Speaker 1: I recall, most of the incidents involved their weapons being holstered.

805
00:49:10,480 --> 00:49:13,640
Speaker 1: But they have in the past, according to a lot

806
00:49:13,640 --> 00:49:17,600
Speaker 1: of reports, confiscated film back when film was a thing,

807
00:49:18,520 --> 00:49:23,280
Speaker 1: or demanded to have various equipment turned over to them.

808
00:49:23,320 --> 00:49:27,960
Speaker 1: Because again, the facility is all about spy aircraft, so

809
00:49:28,120 --> 00:49:31,640
Speaker 1: you don't want footage leaking of either the facility or

810
00:49:31,760 --> 00:49:34,759
Speaker 1: the aircraft that are under development there. Um, So it's

811
00:49:34,760 --> 00:49:37,279
Speaker 1: not necessarily that big of a mystery, but the fact

812
00:49:37,320 --> 00:49:39,680
Speaker 1: that you have these guys who are not easily identifiable

813
00:49:39,719 --> 00:49:44,040
Speaker 1: as belonging to a specific United States government organization, that

814
00:49:44,160 --> 00:49:48,400
Speaker 1: definitely adds to that mystery. And they're not identifying themselves.

815
00:49:48,440 --> 00:49:53,960
Speaker 1: And also to be candid in in some cases not all,

816
00:49:54,000 --> 00:49:57,280
Speaker 1: but in some cases if you were making a film,

817
00:49:57,520 --> 00:50:00,320
Speaker 1: then you want to have that sort of con flick.

818
00:50:00,840 --> 00:50:04,520
Speaker 1: So it it's also possible that in some cases these

819
00:50:04,560 --> 00:50:07,719
Speaker 1: are the threat as it is as it is is

820
00:50:08,200 --> 00:50:14,000
Speaker 1: um embellished, or it's possible that people are purposefully agitating

821
00:50:14,480 --> 00:50:17,400
Speaker 1: the guards. Yeah, it's it's definitely without being there. We

822
00:50:17,440 --> 00:50:20,480
Speaker 1: can't say for sure, but that but but both scenarios

823
00:50:20,760 --> 00:50:24,000
Speaker 1: seem to be plausible to me, Right, I don't know

824
00:50:24,080 --> 00:50:26,759
Speaker 1: what really unfolded. It may be that the truth is

825
00:50:26,800 --> 00:50:30,360
Speaker 1: somewhere in between those two those two scenarios, right, But

826
00:50:30,400 --> 00:50:33,839
Speaker 1: you can't accidentally end up there, no, you purposefully We're

827
00:50:33,880 --> 00:50:36,640
Speaker 1: trying to get there. And this is clearly an area

828
00:50:36,680 --> 00:50:40,080
Speaker 1: that is off limits. Uh, and is you know, is

829
00:50:40,239 --> 00:50:43,600
Speaker 1: legally off limits? Some people are and you know, we

830
00:50:43,680 --> 00:50:46,000
Speaker 1: talked about that in the second episode of the history

831
00:50:46,000 --> 00:50:49,080
Speaker 1: about how Area fifty one gets a whole lot of

832
00:50:49,200 --> 00:50:54,000
Speaker 1: legal leeway um in in ways that other places in

833
00:50:54,040 --> 00:50:57,080
Speaker 1: the United States simply do not, and that that will

834
00:50:57,120 --> 00:51:01,080
Speaker 1: also adds to this curiosity we have of Area fifty one.

835
00:51:01,120 --> 00:51:04,239
Speaker 1: I think we've really covered kind of what drives that,

836
00:51:04,680 --> 00:51:08,160
Speaker 1: the fact that, you know, human beings are curious, right,

837
00:51:08,200 --> 00:51:11,040
Speaker 1: we want to know things. When we see something that

838
00:51:11,080 --> 00:51:15,440
Speaker 1: we do not understand, Often one of our earliest responses

839
00:51:15,560 --> 00:51:18,239
Speaker 1: is how does that work? Or what is going on here?

840
00:51:18,320 --> 00:51:21,800
Speaker 1: What's really happening? Unless it's really scary, and which is

841
00:51:22,160 --> 00:51:25,080
Speaker 1: where's the closest exit? And can I run faster than

842
00:51:25,120 --> 00:51:28,120
Speaker 1: ben Um because you don't have to run the fastest, No,

843
00:51:28,280 --> 00:51:31,560
Speaker 1: just faster than the slowest person. As long as I'm

844
00:51:31,560 --> 00:51:34,759
Speaker 1: not the slowest person in the office, I'm still got

845
00:51:34,760 --> 00:51:39,640
Speaker 1: a chance. Yeah, So I can certainly see and I

846
00:51:39,680 --> 00:51:42,160
Speaker 1: feel it too. I mean I certainly have this curiosity

847
00:51:42,200 --> 00:51:45,920
Speaker 1: about Area fifty one. Heck, just just going from the

848
00:51:45,960 --> 00:51:50,479
Speaker 1: baseline most mundane description of what's going on there, there's

849
00:51:50,480 --> 00:51:53,600
Speaker 1: still so many questions like, how do they how do

850
00:51:53,680 --> 00:51:56,560
Speaker 1: they really maintain that level of secrecy. How much does

851
00:51:56,640 --> 00:51:59,759
Speaker 1: the typical worker at Area fifty one know about what's

852
00:51:59,760 --> 00:52:03,280
Speaker 1: going on? How do they make sure that people working

853
00:52:03,320 --> 00:52:07,600
Speaker 1: on one project remain oblivious to everything else that's happening.

854
00:52:08,080 --> 00:52:10,480
Speaker 1: How do they schedule these things? What is it like

855
00:52:10,600 --> 00:52:13,839
Speaker 1: being a pilot for one of these aircraft? I mean,

856
00:52:13,880 --> 00:52:15,239
Speaker 1: there are a lot of questions that we don't have

857
00:52:15,320 --> 00:52:18,680
Speaker 1: the answers too. So I think, uh, you know, it

858
00:52:18,760 --> 00:52:21,200
Speaker 1: was a lot of fun tackling this this subject, and

859
00:52:21,239 --> 00:52:23,520
Speaker 1: I think it really did merit the three episodes because

860
00:52:23,560 --> 00:52:28,319
Speaker 1: it is such a touchstone for everything from the political

861
00:52:28,960 --> 00:52:33,400
Speaker 1: ideology from the nineteen fifties forward to just a pop

862
00:52:33,440 --> 00:52:37,680
Speaker 1: culture you know touchstone, right, It's it's like that's that's

863
00:52:37,719 --> 00:52:39,640
Speaker 1: the go to for science fiction. Now I have a

864
00:52:39,719 --> 00:52:43,759
Speaker 1: question for you. Absolutely when and now that we have,

865
00:52:44,680 --> 00:52:48,200
Speaker 1: along with the rest of the tech stuff audience explored

866
00:52:49,000 --> 00:52:52,120
Speaker 1: stem discern the the ideas and the reality and the

867
00:52:52,160 --> 00:52:55,120
Speaker 1: miss very fifty one, I have to ask you, what

868
00:52:55,239 --> 00:52:57,920
Speaker 1: would you do if one of the you know, if

869
00:52:57,960 --> 00:53:00,560
Speaker 1: one of the strangest things turned out to be true.

870
00:53:01,560 --> 00:53:04,520
Speaker 1: You know, I like to I would like to think

871
00:53:04,760 --> 00:53:08,080
Speaker 1: that I'm the type of skeptic who, when presented with

872
00:53:08,320 --> 00:53:12,759
Speaker 1: incontrovertible evidence that something I believe to be true is

873
00:53:12,760 --> 00:53:16,120
Speaker 1: in fact not true, and that something I thought was

874
00:53:16,880 --> 00:53:19,960
Speaker 1: just purely made up is in fact the truth, that

875
00:53:20,040 --> 00:53:22,960
Speaker 1: I would be able to accept it. Saying that and

876
00:53:23,040 --> 00:53:25,800
Speaker 1: actually doing it are two different things, right, I don't

877
00:53:25,880 --> 00:53:28,600
Speaker 1: know if that's how I would truly react. I'd like

878
00:53:28,680 --> 00:53:33,320
Speaker 1: to think that if suddenly there was just pure evidence

879
00:53:33,360 --> 00:53:36,520
Speaker 1: that in fact the Roswell incident involved aliens, and that

880
00:53:36,600 --> 00:53:39,000
Speaker 1: the aliens were in fact Holstad Area fifty one, and

881
00:53:39,040 --> 00:53:42,520
Speaker 1: all of these crazy conspiracy theories were actually true, I

882
00:53:42,880 --> 00:53:44,680
Speaker 1: like to believe that I would be able to say,

883
00:53:44,719 --> 00:53:48,120
Speaker 1: you know what, I never would have bought into this,

884
00:53:48,200 --> 00:53:50,359
Speaker 1: but it turns out it was right. And I was wrong.

885
00:53:50,440 --> 00:53:52,160
Speaker 1: I'd like to think I could do that. I think

886
00:53:52,200 --> 00:53:55,759
Speaker 1: you would. I like, okay, incontrovertible evidence then would have

887
00:53:55,800 --> 00:54:00,600
Speaker 1: to be something like aliens landing at your house and

888
00:54:00,920 --> 00:54:03,759
Speaker 1: saying like, hey, guys, have you seen our buddies? They

889
00:54:03,960 --> 00:54:07,000
Speaker 1: showed up maybe I don't know, you know, seventy earth

890
00:54:07,080 --> 00:54:10,200
Speaker 1: years ago something around there. Yeah, they checked their watch

891
00:54:10,239 --> 00:54:13,759
Speaker 1: for seventy earth years ago and they're big fans of

892
00:54:13,840 --> 00:54:16,359
Speaker 1: text stuff, and so they heard that we had done

893
00:54:16,360 --> 00:54:19,400
Speaker 1: an episode. Yeah, I feel like you're the kind of

894
00:54:19,400 --> 00:54:23,680
Speaker 1: guy would go, huh, well, yeah, okay, I guess let

895
00:54:23,680 --> 00:54:25,440
Speaker 1: me let me call my boss. I would be like,

896
00:54:25,520 --> 00:54:28,200
Speaker 1: some of um, all right, Well, it turns out I

897
00:54:28,280 --> 00:54:30,680
Speaker 1: was a big fat head and I was wrong about everything.

898
00:54:31,160 --> 00:54:33,319
Speaker 1: That's not everything. But also, yeah, it is true that

899
00:54:33,360 --> 00:54:38,080
Speaker 1: there is, at least there are several conspiracies that we're

900
00:54:38,120 --> 00:54:41,280
Speaker 1: at work at Area fifty one, and we've we've explored those,

901
00:54:41,440 --> 00:54:45,319
Speaker 1: and I guess what what I would want people to

902
00:54:45,360 --> 00:54:48,040
Speaker 1: take away from this is that there really is amazing

903
00:54:48,480 --> 00:54:53,200
Speaker 1: strange science fiction, action thriller movie level stuff there. It

904
00:54:53,320 --> 00:54:56,319
Speaker 1: just may not be what people are claiming. It is, right,

905
00:54:56,600 --> 00:54:59,520
Speaker 1: that doesn't mean it's you know, not interesting. It certainly is,

906
00:54:59,640 --> 00:55:04,000
Speaker 1: and it's uh, it's really again an evidence of human

907
00:55:04,040 --> 00:55:07,600
Speaker 1: achievement for both an engineering side and just a secrecy

908
00:55:07,719 --> 00:55:10,880
Speaker 1: keeping side, because it's really hard to keep those secrets.

909
00:55:11,200 --> 00:55:14,400
Speaker 1: So I do suspect that they do that by managing

910
00:55:14,440 --> 00:55:16,920
Speaker 1: how many people are allowed to know any one thing

911
00:55:16,960 --> 00:55:22,040
Speaker 1: at any one time, otherwise you know, loose lips. I

912
00:55:22,040 --> 00:55:24,360
Speaker 1: hope you enjoyed that classic episode of tech Stuff. I

913
00:55:24,360 --> 00:55:28,759
Speaker 1: really enjoy reading, writing researching about Area fifty one. One

914
00:55:28,800 --> 00:55:31,200
Speaker 1: of my favorite articles I ever wrote for How Stuff

915
00:55:31,239 --> 00:55:33,560
Speaker 1: Works back when I was writing for them, was on

916
00:55:33,640 --> 00:55:36,080
Speaker 1: how Area fifty one works. It was also one of

917
00:55:36,080 --> 00:55:38,759
Speaker 1: my longest articles I ever wrote, to the point where

918
00:55:38,800 --> 00:55:41,760
Speaker 1: my editor was suggesting that I cut out a couple

919
00:55:41,760 --> 00:55:44,920
Speaker 1: of segments, but I felt like it really added, you know,

920
00:55:45,280 --> 00:55:48,040
Speaker 1: some character and flavor to the piece, so I fought

921
00:55:48,080 --> 00:55:51,320
Speaker 1: for it and ultimately it all went in. I honestly

922
00:55:51,360 --> 00:55:53,280
Speaker 1: don't know if that paid off. I was not looking

923
00:55:53,280 --> 00:55:55,839
Speaker 1: at the analytics for that article. Maybe people dropped off

924
00:55:55,880 --> 00:55:58,960
Speaker 1: way before then, but it was it was a fun

925
00:55:58,960 --> 00:56:01,120
Speaker 1: experience and I'm glad we got a chance to revisit

926
00:56:01,120 --> 00:56:04,920
Speaker 1: it tomorrow. You will have a new episode of Smart

927
00:56:05,000 --> 00:56:08,120
Speaker 1: Talks with IBM in this feed, and then on Friday

928
00:56:08,440 --> 00:56:10,839
Speaker 1: you will hear the episode that I've been working on

929
00:56:11,400 --> 00:56:15,000
Speaker 1: but has so far been a little slow to come together.

930
00:56:15,239 --> 00:56:17,760
Speaker 1: I can't tell you what it's about just yet, except

931
00:56:17,840 --> 00:56:22,239
Speaker 1: I'll say, Darlin, it's better downwards wetter under the sea.

932
00:56:22,880 --> 00:56:25,080
Speaker 1: But that's as much as I can say. All right.

933
00:56:25,560 --> 00:56:28,239
Speaker 1: If you have suggestions for topics I should cover on

934
00:56:28,320 --> 00:56:31,920
Speaker 1: tech Stuff, whether it's a technology, a company, a trend

935
00:56:32,000 --> 00:56:37,040
Speaker 1: in tech, you know a specific product, maybe let me

936
00:56:37,080 --> 00:56:39,040
Speaker 1: know send me a message. Best way to do that

937
00:56:39,040 --> 00:56:41,360
Speaker 1: as on Twitter. The handle for the show is text

938
00:56:41,400 --> 00:56:44,320
Speaker 1: stuff H s W and I'll talk to you again

939
00:56:45,160 --> 00:56:53,960
Speaker 1: really soon. Text Stuff is an I Heart Radio production.

940
00:56:54,200 --> 00:56:57,040
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from I Heart Radio, visit the i

941
00:56:57,160 --> 00:57:00,400
Speaker 1: Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to

942
00:57:00,440 --> 00:57:01,360
Speaker 1: your favorite shows.