Speaker 1: Hey everyone, It's Jay Schetty and I'm thrilled to announce
Speaker 1: my podcast tour for the first time ever. You can
Speaker 1: see my on Purpose podcast live and in person. Join
Speaker 1: me in a city near you for meaningful, insightful conversations
Speaker 1: with surprise guests. It could be a celebrity, top wellness expert,
Speaker 1: or a CEO or business leader. We'll dive into experiences
Speaker 1: designed to inspire growth, spark learning, and build real connections.
Speaker 1: I can't wait to see you there. Tickets are on
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Speaker 2: I think a lot of people let their weight control
Speaker 2: their lives. I didn't think that I was capable of changing,
Speaker 2: and now I know I'm capable of that. Like bitch,
Speaker 2: I can do anything, like I really can't. Shit is
Speaker 2: a multi talented entertainment personality. Hope everybody's having a urgy
Speaker 2: Ergin Mendy the.
Speaker 1: One, the only. Claudia Austri, what do you feel is
Speaker 1: the biggest misconception about you?
Speaker 2: I felt so misunderstood by people, and I remember getting
Speaker 2: married and being like so angry that my dad wasn't
Speaker 2: going to be there. When I was struggling with myself image.
Speaker 2: I feel like I'm gonna cry now. Sorry. The number
Speaker 2: one health and wellness podcast Jay Setty Jay Sheety s
Speaker 2: Y only shet.
Speaker 1: Hey, everyone, Welcome back to on Purpose, the place you
Speaker 1: choose to become a happier, healthier and more healed today.
Speaker 1: I'm excited because I'm actually speaking to someone who is
Speaker 1: my team's number one pick. My team will only want
Speaker 1: to show up for Michael B Jordan, Lewis Hamilton, and
Speaker 1: Claudia Ashery.
Speaker 2: I'm not siding women into male dominated fields.
Speaker 1: I'm not kidding. My team are the biggest fans of
Speaker 1: today's guest. I was lucky enough and grateful enough to
Speaker 1: go on her show, The Toast, the hit show award
Speaker 1: winning incredibly huge, huge, huge podcast called The Toast last year.
Speaker 1: It is genuinely the thing. Whenever I get stopped, people
Speaker 1: are like, I heard you on The Toast. I loved it.
Speaker 1: I loved it. I loved it. So I am so
Speaker 1: excited I get to return the favor today with Claudia Ushery. Clia,
Speaker 1: thanks for being.
Speaker 2: Here, my god best intro Ever do it again.
Speaker 1: I'd be happy to.
Speaker 2: I'd be happy.
Speaker 1: It was genuine, it was honest and.
Speaker 2: I love you, by the way, Like when we met,
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna lie. I was like a little I'm like,
Speaker 2: who's this guy? Because I wasn't super familiar. I read
Speaker 2: your book and I was like, Okay, let's see what
Speaker 2: it's about. I feel like sometimes when someone becomes really
Speaker 2: known with a lot of celebrity friends, it can be
Speaker 2: like a little smoke in mirrors. And I was like, honestly,
Speaker 2: I'm suspicious this guy's coming in. And you were so
Speaker 2: kind the second you walked in. It was very disarming.
Speaker 2: I was like, oh, never mind, I take back, like
Speaker 2: I love him. And we had such a great conversation,
Speaker 2: and I actually loved so many things about your book
Speaker 2: because your book was like really heavy on relationships, and
Speaker 2: I just loved it ever since, and I've just like
Speaker 2: loved you.
Speaker 1: Oh are you? That genuinely means the word to me.
Speaker 1: And you made me feel so comfortable that day because
Speaker 1: I was like, guys, like you guys. I was talking
Speaker 1: to my team and I was like, you guys, listen
Speaker 1: to her. And I was like, I'm not cool, I'm
Speaker 1: not funny. I was like, how am I going to
Speaker 1: fit in? Like how's this going to work? And they
Speaker 1: were like, no, no, no, She's gonna be wonderful. And
Speaker 1: you were and you are and I'm so grateful that
Speaker 1: I now get to do this back. So let's dive
Speaker 1: straight in. Because you just said something to me. I
Speaker 1: wasn't gonna die, but you just said something to me,
Speaker 1: and I wanted to ask you, like, what do you
Speaker 1: feel is the biggest misconception about you? Oh?
Speaker 2: Well, that's a good question. I don't know if I
Speaker 2: would say there's one misconception, I would say like though largely,
Speaker 2: and there was a period a few years ago because
Speaker 2: I remember writing about this in my book where I
Speaker 2: felt so misunderstood by people, And I feel like, unless
Speaker 2: you were watching my podcast every day and listening to
Speaker 2: everything else thing that I said, you didn't really get me.
Speaker 2: Because I feel like I come off as like a
Speaker 2: lot of different things, so like a little crazy, a
Speaker 2: little outlandish, but I feel like the person that I
Speaker 2: really am, as like a sister, a wife, I feel
Speaker 2: like kind of gets lost in the mix. Sometimes I
Speaker 2: like to think I'm like and I'm always like joking
Speaker 2: about how funny and sweet and kind of beautiful I am.
Speaker 2: But I really do believe that about myself and I
Speaker 2: feel like just because I always lead with like humor
Speaker 2: and a little bit of like outrageousness, I do feel
Speaker 2: like that softer very what I think is genuine gets
Speaker 2: a little bit lost.
Speaker 1: That's so interesting. I mean, I can relate in so
Speaker 1: many ways. I feel so misunderstood so often, and it's
Speaker 1: because we have a view of what a spiritual person
Speaker 1: or a teacher or a guide looks like. And I
Speaker 1: think I'm just trying to be people's friend. I'm trying
Speaker 1: to be the person who's just reminding you something.
Speaker 2: Yes, I feel like your job title definitely like you
Speaker 2: lead with that, and people have conceptions about that before.
Speaker 2: And I feel the same way that coming from a
Speaker 2: comedy space, especially when you make jokes like sometimes are
Speaker 2: a little you know, people are like, oh, she's crazy,
Speaker 2: she's radical, and it's just like I'm actually just a girl.
Speaker 2: Like I'm just a girl, and nothing makes me happier
Speaker 2: than making people laugh, and like sometimes they take it
Speaker 2: a little far, but like it's funny, it's fine, what's
Speaker 2: a big deal.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And that's why for me as well, it's like
Speaker 1: I want to help people. I want to make people
Speaker 1: feel better. I want to introduce people to great ideas
Speaker 1: and insights. It's not it doesn't have to be heavy,
Speaker 1: it doesn't have to be like everything. I also love
Speaker 1: soccer and love fashion and love you know, just I'm
Speaker 1: a normal human being. And it's like, I love that balance,
Speaker 1: and I think that's how I see myself, as someone
Speaker 1: who has these very nuanced interests and hobbies and everything else.
Speaker 1: But I think naturally we're kind of forced to be
Speaker 1: in a box.
Speaker 2: Get you both one hundred percent. I so believe that.
Speaker 2: I feel like I'm so hard and I'm so soft.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that, yeah at the same time at.
Speaker 2: The same time. And I feel like I'm always leading
Speaker 2: obviously because what I do is like just try to
Speaker 2: make people laugh, which I love. So I'm always leading
Speaker 2: with that. And I do you feel like my sort
Speaker 2: of so wee sensitive side And I'm very sensitive. I
Speaker 2: feel like I don't show that a lot, and I
Speaker 2: don't want to show it that much because I feel
Speaker 2: like on the internet it's so toxic. If you open
Speaker 2: up about a vulnerability or something, people throw it back
Speaker 2: in your face and they use it against you. So
Speaker 2: I'm also really protective of my own piece.
Speaker 1: Wow, when did you learn that you had to do that.
Speaker 2: I feel like when I first started opening up, I
Speaker 2: feel like the first thing I really opened up about
Speaker 2: because I share everything on the Internet and it's not hard.
Speaker 2: I don't feel like I'm digging deep to share. I'm
Speaker 2: a nap. Like if I mean you for the first time,
Speaker 2: I'll tell you my life story. That's just how I am.
Speaker 2: So I've never felt like I was sharing something that
Speaker 2: I wasn't comfortable sharing until I shared my journey with ozambic,
Speaker 2: which was so personal to me, and you know, I
Speaker 2: got a lot of support for it, but there were
Speaker 2: also but you know, you're stealing drugs from diabetics, Like literally, no,
Speaker 2: I'm not, And there was like a lot of there's
Speaker 2: a lot of discourse around that, do people who struggle
Speaker 2: with their weight and need medication? Are they stealing medication
Speaker 2: from diabetes patients? So I felt like scared to share
Speaker 2: that one because I think the emotion I felt most
Speaker 2: was like I was really embarrassed that one I'd gotten
Speaker 2: myself to a place where I required a medication, and
Speaker 2: two I did feel a little pushed to share just
Speaker 2: because it was so obvious to people that I was
Speaker 2: on it, and you know, everybody, nobody love me live,
Speaker 2: let me sleep for five minutes. They're like, she's on
Speaker 2: a sing she don't know something. And when I did share,
Speaker 2: I'm ultimately so glad that I did. But I didn't
Speaker 2: feel at first like it was my choice necessarily.
Speaker 1: That always feels hard. Yeah, yeah, when you feel like
Speaker 1: you had to share something because there was already so
Speaker 1: much tool regulation.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and now when I look back, I wish I
Speaker 2: shared sooner. It's like the greatest journey I went on.
Speaker 2: I have so many positive things to say about it.
Speaker 2: I think when I tell people it makes them feel
Speaker 2: like a little less embarrassed about their journey because look
Speaker 2: at me, I'm so fabulous and even I did it,
Speaker 2: and I wish I did it sooner, and I loved
Speaker 2: every minute of the journey, But at the time I
Speaker 2: was so embarrassed, Like that was just the emotion I
Speaker 2: remember feeling, was like pure shame.
Speaker 1: That's I mean, And that sounds like such a hard
Speaker 1: place to be. We actually interviewed ent video and Harry,
Speaker 1: a good friend of mine who wrote the book The
Speaker 1: Magic Pill. He's on ozen Pick and he's gone and
Speaker 1: done all the research from the biggest experts in the
Speaker 1: space and the naysays in the space, And so for
Speaker 1: anyone who's looking for a very research guide to his
Speaker 1: MP he was brilliant and he talked about it from
Speaker 1: so many different perspectives. But going back to what you said,
Speaker 1: one of the first things that I think so hard
Speaker 1: for people is how society has made people feel shameful
Speaker 1: about their body in general. I mean, you've talked before
Speaker 1: about I saw that I actually couldn't believe this existed.
Speaker 1: But you've talked about going to fat camp. Oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: like I'd never heard of my life, we never I've
Speaker 1: never heard of that living in America up in London. Yeah, Like,
Speaker 1: first of all, explain to me how you can get
Speaker 1: away with calling something fat camp. And what is fat camp?
Speaker 2: Well, actually, at the time, I believe they were going
Speaker 2: by weight last camp, not that it mattered like colloquially
Speaker 2: it's called the fat camp. And yeah, so I went
Speaker 2: to summer camp my whole life. And when I was like,
Speaker 2: I feel like maybe I was in like the sixth grade.
Speaker 2: I don't remember how old I was. My older sister
Speaker 2: was really struggling with her and I never struggled with
Speaker 2: my weight as a kid, and you know, my parents
Speaker 2: tried a lot of different things, and one of the
Speaker 2: things that they tried was sending her to like a
Speaker 2: summer camp that was focused on physical fitness. I think
Speaker 2: what people think of as a fat camp, like a
Speaker 2: fat farm, where like the kids are up every day
Speaker 2: pulling tires up hills. It wasn't like that at all.
Speaker 2: It was a very standard all American summer camp with
Speaker 2: fitness and diet just sort of at the forefront of
Speaker 2: meals and activities, and all my sisters went to support
Speaker 2: my older sister and we ended up having like the
Speaker 2: most amazing time. We went back. I never went back
Speaker 2: to the old camp that I had originally went to.
Speaker 2: We went back every summer. It was the greatest experience
Speaker 2: of my life. Some of my best friends I still
Speaker 2: talk to you to this day from camp, and so
Speaker 2: I know how it like sounds and looks to other people,
Speaker 2: But for me, it was just such a regular camp experience.
Speaker 2: But I also wasn't on the program, So for any
Speaker 2: of the summers that I spent at a weight loss camp,
Speaker 2: I was actually never struggling with my weight. So'd wear
Speaker 2: this special bracelet that just let everyone at the facility
Speaker 2: know like I'm not on the program. And then it
Speaker 2: turns out, you know, the second I left camp, I
Speaker 2: actually started to, you know, struggle with my weight and
Speaker 2: I really could have used a weight loss camp.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, so what was that like then in
Speaker 1: the beginning years? Because I think what's interesting as we
Speaker 1: talk about a ZMPIG to me, so much of it
Speaker 1: is about how we're conditioned since we're young. So I
Speaker 1: grew up overweight?
Speaker 2: Oh did you?
Speaker 1: Yeah? For I was overweight until I was about like fifteen, wow,
Speaker 1: sixteen years old? Maybe can you picture it? And yeah,
Speaker 1: I'll show you pictures. Yeah, yeah, I will, I will.
Speaker 1: My wife has plenty of embarrassing pictures of me, and
Speaker 1: she was as well. Oh really, yeah she was as well.
Speaker 2: So let me tell you. People who have never struggled
Speaker 2: with their weight, like, are are not people. Not that
Speaker 2: there's anything wrong with them, but like, they're not people
Speaker 2: I can relate to. I feel like struggling with your
Speaker 2: weight makes you such a real bitch, like can I
Speaker 2: curse on here? Ye? Like I feel people who have
Speaker 2: struggled with their weight they know real struggle, they know
Speaker 2: being uncovered. Like I just feel I when I meet
Speaker 2: someone and they've struggled with their weight, Like I automatically
Speaker 2: know they're like, they're my type of pers do you
Speaker 2: know what I mean?
Speaker 1: But that's that's why I'm sharing my.
Speaker 2: It creates such you're resilient and it's like you're serious.
Speaker 2: Especially as a kid.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, Yeah, it's huge. I mean, like I
Speaker 1: remember the bullying, the name calling, the awkward thing of
Speaker 1: trying to pull myself out of a swimming pool and
Speaker 1: not being able to, like you know, moments like that
Speaker 1: where you're just like, oh gosh, this is the worst
Speaker 1: thing that could have ever happened. And then being forced
Speaker 1: to wear speedos at school. Yeah not in America, right, No, never,
Speaker 1: that's our version of fat camp. Yeah you have to
Speaker 1: wear that's terrible. Actually. Yeah. And so when I look
Speaker 1: back at all of that, I think about how much
Speaker 1: shame guilt is already set up just in our perception
Speaker 1: of what it means to be overweight. And now you're
Speaker 1: talking about feeling shame of going on a zempic, which
Speaker 1: you're taking to do the opposite.
Speaker 2: Well, it's like you can't win. I used to get
Speaker 2: like so much you know, backlash and messages like that.
Speaker 2: I'm setting a bad example that I live in unhealthy lifestyle.
Speaker 2: So then I take control of it and like, I
Speaker 2: start changing my life. And now I'm you know, running
Speaker 2: diabetics over with a bus, Like you really can't win,
Speaker 2: so you just had to do what makes you happy.
Speaker 2: And going on that journey made me really happy. It
Speaker 2: was like the first time in my life where I
Speaker 2: ever felt in control of my weight. Like since I'm like,
Speaker 2: I started gaining weight in college, so since I'm eighteen,
Speaker 2: I it was the craziest feeling. It was so foreign
Speaker 2: to me, and I think a lot of especially girls
Speaker 2: who struggle with their weight, maybe able to relate to this.
Speaker 2: Like I was always a confident person, even when you
Speaker 2: know I was struggling with my weight, and I was
Speaker 2: always really happy in my own body. That was like
Speaker 2: something I really worked on. I think a lot of
Speaker 2: people let their weight control their lives, whether it comes
Speaker 2: to work or personal relationships. For me, I was never
Speaker 2: gonna let it stand in my way. But that didn't
Speaker 2: mean that I didn't like that. I liked it, like
Speaker 2: I loved myself and I loved my life. But deep inside,
Speaker 2: I always wanted to be skinny. So when you're an
Speaker 2: overweight girl, like you wake up every day and you
Speaker 2: think about like you look, you pass a mirror, you
Speaker 2: pass a window. You're thinking probably one hundred times a
Speaker 2: day about like the inevitable day when maybe one day
Speaker 2: you will be skinny. So Ozembic gave me that like.
Speaker 2: And to achieve a lifelong dream that you never think.
Speaker 2: I know it sounds so dramatic, but to achieve a
Speaker 2: lifelong dream that you never think is going to come
Speaker 2: to fruition is the craziest feeling. And that's why I
Speaker 2: really felt so compelled to share my journey because at
Speaker 2: the time when I shared it was twenty twenty three,
Speaker 2: I think maybe around the end of the year, and no,
Speaker 2: it was like the summer. There was so much negative
Speaker 2: stuff out there about ozembic, like the Daily Mail. Every
Speaker 2: time somebody ended up in the er with a headache,
Speaker 2: it was Ozembic's fault, and I just felt like everybody
Speaker 2: was being made fun of for being on ozembic and
Speaker 2: no one was really talking about how life changing it is,
Speaker 2: and especially as like a girl who always wanted to
Speaker 2: be a mom, I was. I was like, I can't
Speaker 2: ever get pregnant at this weight. I have to lose
Speaker 2: the weight before I can gain the weight. So it
Speaker 2: just gave me opportunities. It gave me a whole new life,
Speaker 2: and I felt so compelled to share because it bothered
Speaker 2: me how negative everything was about this journey, Like we
Speaker 2: were all supposed to feel shamed, Like the amount of
Speaker 2: negative media representation that negative mentions of ozembic like was
Speaker 2: supposed to I think shame people into not doing it,
Speaker 2: And I was like, I don't feel like And I
Speaker 2: think that's why Oprah did her special too. Her special
Speaker 2: was really powerful because she's somebody who's benefited enormously from it,
Speaker 2: and you don't hear those stories enough, and it makes
Speaker 2: me so sad. So ultimately it was the best decision
Speaker 2: I ever made, going on it and also sharing the journey.
Speaker 2: But at the time, I just wish people had given
Speaker 2: me like a little bit more space to process it.
Speaker 1: You know, did you ever worry about the side effects
Speaker 1: and what you because I'm guessing you a thing about
Speaker 1: those things as well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, of course. So when I when it was first
Speaker 2: brought up to me by my plastic surgeon, I was
Speaker 2: like super intrigued. Then I spoke to like my primary
Speaker 2: care physician about it and both of them were really
Speaker 2: like down and excited, and they wanted me to do it,
Speaker 2: So I fair really good, like knowing that my doctors
Speaker 2: supported it. And that's why I like, I didn't share
Speaker 2: from day one because one, what if it didn't go well?
Speaker 2: Two so it doesn't work for some people. So I
Speaker 2: make this whole big thing I'm going on, and then
Speaker 2: I don't even lose the weight, Like there were so
Speaker 2: many factors at play, so I couldn't share from day one,
Speaker 2: and then when I started to drop significant weight, I
Speaker 2: was just then feeling embarrassed. That's why I didn't share.
Speaker 2: I was like, Wow, my life got to a place
Speaker 2: where it was where I'm so out of control. I
Speaker 2: need medication to get me to stop eating, like and
Speaker 2: that's what I loved about Oprah Special, But she really
Speaker 2: dived into like the illness the disease of obesity and
Speaker 2: how it's like telling someone to stop eating is like
Speaker 2: telling a depressed person to just be happy, Like it's
Speaker 2: really not in our chemical compound. So I felt like
Speaker 2: the whole journey, I was learning about myself. I was
Speaker 2: learning about the disease, I was learning about the medication,
Speaker 2: and yeah, of course I was worried about side effects,
Speaker 2: but after a couple of weeks when I had minimal
Speaker 2: nausea and it went away pretty fast, I felt like
Speaker 2: this was the right drug for me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then what was it that decided to get
Speaker 1: you off it? Oh?
Speaker 2: Well, I had lost the weight and I feel like
Speaker 2: I was on it for a year and the first
Speaker 2: six months I just kind of let the drug like
Speaker 2: do its thing. I didn't change my life at all.
Speaker 2: I was like still eating like crap, but that's how
Speaker 2: the drug works. You eat like crap, but you eat
Speaker 2: half So I was losing weight. And then halfway through,
Speaker 2: I was like, Okay, now that I've kind of gotten
Speaker 2: my life a little bit under control, let me actually
Speaker 2: try and change my life. So I joined the gym,
Speaker 2: I got a trainer, I started working out, I started
Speaker 2: eating way healthier. So I did the journey like in
Speaker 2: two parts, one where I just kind of let the
Speaker 2: medicaid run me, and then where I use the medication
Speaker 2: as like a tool to change my life. And I
Speaker 2: really wanted to see if I could do it without.
Speaker 2: And I also knew that I had wanted to get
Speaker 2: pregnant sometime soon, and you have to be off the
Speaker 2: medication for a minimum of two months. So I got
Speaker 2: off of it in December of twenty twenty three. I
Speaker 2: knew in the next year I'd wanted to get pregnant,
Speaker 2: and I kind of wanted to put as much time
Speaker 2: between being off the drug and starting my journey, and
Speaker 2: I wanted to see, like if I could keep up
Speaker 2: with my working out and my eating well regimen without
Speaker 2: the drug. And I was able to. And that's like
Speaker 2: one of the things I'm most proud of because like,
Speaker 2: and I never would have been able to get there
Speaker 2: if it weren't for the tool of ozembic and all
Speaker 2: those GLP on medications.
Speaker 1: Well, and how did you, How has it changed you?
Speaker 1: Because you, like you said, you're already confident, You already
Speaker 1: liked yourself. Now I knew who you were. What's changed?
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm insufferable now. Like No, I think that
Speaker 2: so much of my confidence was I really had to
Speaker 2: work at it. Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: It was.
Speaker 2: I don't want to say fake, but I just remember
Speaker 2: one day waking up and like deciding to be confident,
Speaker 2: and slowly, by slowly, brick by brick, I built up
Speaker 2: a sense of confidence that really it was real, but
Speaker 2: I do think it was built on a foundation of
Speaker 2: like kind of lies. And now that I, like really
Speaker 2: changed my life, I felt so confident. But I also
Speaker 2: felt so confident that I was capable of change. I
Speaker 2: think for many years, I'm such a stubborn person. I
Speaker 2: didn't think that I was capable of changing anything anything,
Speaker 2: let alone this huge thing for me which has always
Speaker 2: been my weight, which has kind of been like my
Speaker 2: Roman empire. So I think the fact that I successfully
Speaker 2: changed something in my life, something bad, and turned it
Speaker 2: into good like that, and now I know I'm capable
Speaker 2: of that, like bitch, I can do anything, like I
Speaker 2: really can.
Speaker 1: I love that attitude, But how did you build that
Speaker 1: energy before? Like I don't want to take away from
Speaker 1: the fact that even though you say you were faking it,
Speaker 1: obviously it was working in that you were still doing well.
Speaker 1: It seems like you were comfortable in your own skin.
Speaker 1: Like what would you say to someone who maybe does
Speaker 1: doesn't have doesn't want to go on his MPG because
Speaker 1: they're scid or whatever it may be, But like, what
Speaker 1: would you say with him?
Speaker 2: So I feel like people don't like my answer because
Speaker 2: when I was like struggling with my self image. I
Speaker 2: feel like I'm gonna cry and ass are so much
Speaker 2: of my confidence, I would say, like all of it
Speaker 2: came from the fact that I had a husband or
Speaker 2: a boyfriend at the time, Beyonce, who loved me so
Speaker 2: much and he thought I was like the greatest thing.
Speaker 2: And so if he thought and look at him like
Speaker 2: I just I love him so much, and so he
Speaker 2: thinks I'm so great, Like that's nothing. You should get
Speaker 2: your confidence from a man, whatever, But like I did,
Speaker 2: just to be loved so unequivocally by somebody who I
Speaker 2: think is so great that gave me a lot of confidence.
Speaker 2: Like he thought I was the best, he thought I
Speaker 2: was the smartest, he thought I was the prettiest, so
Speaker 2: like I was because his opinion is only one that matters.
Speaker 2: But also like I look at him and I think
Speaker 2: of him as like so charming attractive, like who wouldn't
Speaker 2: want to marry him? And he likes me, like, oh
Speaker 2: my god, I must be like the greatest thing ever.
Speaker 2: And and I really feel like so much of my confidence.
Speaker 2: It's so funny because he says that he gets confidence
Speaker 2: from me, which I feel like really happy that it's
Speaker 2: a two way street. But having a relationship that I
Speaker 2: felt really solid about, but also somebody who just loved
Speaker 2: me so much. Really, it just made me believe like
Speaker 2: what he was saying, do you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: What's interesting to me is just so much of how
Speaker 1: whether it's body shaming we do to ourselves or that
Speaker 1: society does to us, how so much of it is
Speaker 1: built up around aesthetics and visuals, and how health and
Speaker 1: vitality are actually not based on simply visuals.
Speaker 2: No, but I will say visually at the time, like
Speaker 2: if you were to just compare me visually now and
Speaker 2: me visually then, like I was very unhealthy, Like I
Speaker 2: had a lot of random medical issues that like a
Speaker 2: twenty five year old girl shouldn't be having. So I
Speaker 2: agree with you that like a lot of times we
Speaker 2: judge people's health based on their weight, and that's not
Speaker 2: the case for everyone. But to be clear, like it
Speaker 2: was the case for me. Yeah, like I was not healthy.
Speaker 2: I did not walk to work, like I was really
Speaker 2: like living a very inactive, unhealthy lifestyle. That's not the
Speaker 2: case for everyone you see who's overweight, but that was
Speaker 2: one thousand percent the case for me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and.
Speaker 2: Bitch, well, now pregnant, so like it's kind of reverted back,
Speaker 2: but so not pregnancy wise. I just really like lead
Speaker 2: my day with little pockets of activity. I think that
Speaker 2: like met going to meetings, going to work, Like I'm
Speaker 2: always being like, okay, I'll walk. I worked out like
Speaker 2: before I got pregnant, I worked out like, you know,
Speaker 2: three to five times a week. I would spend my
Speaker 2: weekends like doing things that I enjoy whilst being active,
Speaker 2: like going for walks in the park with Ben. Just
Speaker 2: like making sure that I wasn't rotting in bed as
Speaker 2: much as I can I'm capable of, because I'm capable
Speaker 2: of a great deal of rotting. And then with meals,
Speaker 2: that's really where I probably struggled the most, but just
Speaker 2: just trying to be a little bit more well rounded.
Speaker 2: I feel like I eat like a six year old,
Speaker 2: and so I do, like I eat rice and chicken fingers,
Speaker 2: and so just changing sometimes to like brown rice and
Speaker 2: grilled chicken and you know, thinking a little bit more.
Speaker 2: But it's hard because I'm such a picky eater that
Speaker 2: you know, I'm not going to be making bronzino on
Speaker 2: the weekends with like a top of nod, you know,
Speaker 2: that's never gonna happen. I don't even know what top
Speaker 2: of nod is.
Speaker 1: And then I mean, as I'm hearing you speak, I'm
Speaker 1: just like, is there a lot of people talk about
Speaker 1: this right now, like this idea of when you become pregnant?
Speaker 1: Is there like a loss of the life you had? Like,
Speaker 1: is there a feeling of like, wait a minute, just
Speaker 1: a few moments ago, a few months ago I was I.
Speaker 2: Would say, I don't feel I really. I mean, I've
Speaker 2: been married for one hundred years and we decided to
Speaker 2: wait to have kids. And I think that because we
Speaker 2: made that choice, I am now not spending my pregnancy
Speaker 2: and you know, hopefully the next year or two morning
Speaker 2: a life. I feel like I lived life to the
Speaker 2: fullest and I really really waited till I was ready.
Speaker 2: So the only thing I feel like I'm mourning is
Speaker 2: my body. Like that, nobody talks enough about like what
Speaker 2: it's like to lose significant weight and then get pregnant.
Speaker 2: I don't know how I feel about it. I don't
Speaker 2: have like fully fleshed though outs. I'm like struggling every
Speaker 2: single day. But no, I don't feel sad about like
Speaker 2: a life left behind. I feel like I lived every
Speaker 2: minute of my twenties, like on the edge of cliffs,
Speaker 2: going on trips, partying, like doing everything I wanted to do.
Speaker 2: And when I turned thirty over the summer, I was like,
Speaker 2: you know what, I'm done, Like I really feel And
Speaker 2: that's what I'm so happy about, because, yeah, I like
Speaker 2: see my friends with kids, and I'm like, oh, I
Speaker 2: do wish I had, like, you know, joined them. But
Speaker 2: I feel so fulfilled in that one chapter of my
Speaker 2: life that I'm really ready to start the next chapter.
Speaker 1: Ye, what was the reason for putting kids off in
Speaker 1: the beginning?
Speaker 2: What was the I would say it was mostly career.
Speaker 2: I've been working since I'm eighteen, and I just could
Speaker 2: not fathom taking time off. And I don't know, it
Speaker 2: just it really scared me. It doesn't scare me so
Speaker 2: much anymore. But also the weight thing played I could
Speaker 2: not fathom at my previous weight getting pregnant. I think
Speaker 2: it would be a high risk pregnance one and two Like,
Speaker 2: I think it would take me to a new way,
Speaker 2: a new category that I might not be able to
Speaker 2: come back from. So I always knew I had to
Speaker 2: figure it out before and Ozemba came to me at
Speaker 2: like the perfect time.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think the first thing you mentioned I related
Speaker 1: to that is obviously me and my wife don't have
Speaker 1: kids yet and we'd love to one day. But I
Speaker 1: think a big thing for me also was I was
Speaker 1: very clear on who I was when we met and
Speaker 1: things were kind of going in the right direction for
Speaker 1: me and then my wife, I was like, really patient
Speaker 1: and I really wanted her to find her purpose before
Speaker 1: we had kids, because I wanted her to know who
Speaker 1: she was and know her identity and have clarity on
Speaker 1: her worth and her value in everything before we have
Speaker 1: a child. Because I just felt I was like, I
Speaker 1: want her to also live a life and what that
Speaker 1: looks like. And you know, in the past couple of
Speaker 1: years she's just like blossom and grown. It's been so
Speaker 1: fun to watch and it's like now I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 1: now you know I from when we're lucky to have children.
Speaker 1: It's more you can conceive it totally. Yeah, and that
Speaker 1: you're coming at it from a point of like I
Speaker 1: know who I am without anything, Yes, And I think
Speaker 1: that was so important to me for her, I already
Speaker 1: had it myself.
Speaker 2: And also different career thing right, like as a woman
Speaker 2: it's not like you give birth and then you go
Speaker 2: back to work. It's like a two year thing from
Speaker 2: conception to the end, like till you really start to
Speaker 2: feel like yourself again, especially when your job is like
Speaker 2: being public and people have so much to say about
Speaker 2: your body, Like I don't necessarily didn't want to put
Speaker 2: myself through that, Like I really wasn't ready for it.
Speaker 2: So I cannot recommend enough waiting till you're really ready.
Speaker 2: And I know that that's a privilege, but like I
Speaker 2: I'm so pleased with how it's worked out so far,
Speaker 2: and I'm really really glad that I waited because I
Speaker 2: remember I always used to say, like I wanted ten
Speaker 2: kids when I was twenty five, and I remember sitting
Speaker 2: at my friend's couch and I was like drunk, and
Speaker 2: he was like, by the way, like when do you
Speaker 2: want have kids? I'm like, when I'm twenty five, and
Speaker 2: he was like, how old you? I'm like twenty five,
Speaker 2: So maybe maybe when I'm twenty six, And I don't know.
Speaker 2: I always I've always always known I love kids, like
Speaker 2: my niece and my nephews or my whole life, like
Speaker 2: I've always known that I wanted to be a mom,
Speaker 2: and then I started to get a little worried because
Speaker 2: I didn't feel it. I'm like, oh crap, Like I
Speaker 2: was so annoyed at the biological hawk, and I was
Speaker 2: so annoyed at COVID. It like took two years for
Speaker 2: me that like maybe if COVID hadn't happened, I would
Speaker 2: have been living my life those two years and been
Speaker 2: ready when I was twenty eight. But I was like, crap, noe,
Speaker 2: and I got a little worried that I was never
Speaker 2: gonna be ready because I know it's something that I want.
Speaker 2: And that's why I feel so grateful that I very
Speaker 2: naturally came to the conclusion that I'm ready. And my
Speaker 2: husband was amazing about that. Like if I had said
Speaker 2: Tim five years ago, let's have a kid, he'd say, okay.
Speaker 2: If I said Tim this year, Like he was really
Speaker 2: let me lead, which I so appreciatd and never put
Speaker 2: pressure on me to like either wait longer or hurry up.
Speaker 2: Same with our families, Like nobody really tortured us about it.
Speaker 2: And I know a lot of girls get like endless
Speaker 2: harassment from their parents and their in laws, and like
Speaker 2: I didn't get that, And I'm so grateful because I
Speaker 2: really came to the conclusion on my own. So no,
Speaker 2: I don't. I don't like look around and I don't
Speaker 2: look at social media and see people like you know,
Speaker 2: on trips and flying out of planes and think, oh,
Speaker 2: I wish that was me. I'm like, you know what
Speaker 2: I did my time. Honestly, that video makes me tired.
Speaker 2: I want to go take a nap.
Speaker 1: Walk me through that internal dialogue of like, how do
Speaker 1: you get to that place of getting ready? I think
Speaker 1: so many, any of us, yeah, are waiting to feel
Speaker 1: ready in life, whether it's waiting to feel ready to
Speaker 1: start a podcast, whether it's waiting to write your book,
Speaker 1: whether it's waiting to have a kid, whether it's waiting
Speaker 1: to get married. And you're we're just waiting, yeah, but
Speaker 1: we never feel ready for most of us, I know,
Speaker 1: walk me through what you feel being ready means.
Speaker 2: I feel like jealousy is a really powerful emotion, and
Speaker 2: I started to feel like I might be ready to
Speaker 2: start a family when like I would hear about other
Speaker 2: girls that I knew, friends people telling me, and up
Speaker 2: until that point, when people would tell me, I would
Speaker 2: be so happy for them, like I would cry, like
Speaker 2: really genuine and I remember the first time. It was
Speaker 2: like December of twenty twenty three. One of Ben's friends,
Speaker 2: who his fiance excuse me wife is one of my
Speaker 2: good friends. They told us that they were pregnant, and
Speaker 2: I was so happy for it, but like I was
Speaker 2: a little jealous. And then I was like, oh, that's interesting.
Speaker 2: And that's why I feel like it's so important to
Speaker 2: listen to yourself and be able to identify emotions, because
Speaker 2: I was like, Okay, let's jut that down. I told
Speaker 2: Ben I'm like, by the way, I'm a little jealous
Speaker 2: of Natalie. He was like, oh, that's great. And that
Speaker 2: was in December. That was actually when I decided to
Speaker 2: get off of zembic and I was like, ohkay o,
Speaker 2: good to know. And then I just started like listening
Speaker 2: to my feelings and when other people would tell me,
Speaker 2: I'd be like, damn, now I'm starting to feel a
Speaker 2: little left behind. And so really it was my own
Speaker 2: emotions that told me I was ready. And I've always
Speaker 2: been very good at like identifying my own emotions and
Speaker 2: like thinking how does this make me feel? And I
Speaker 2: pissed him. I happy, and that's really I would say,
Speaker 2: how I knew yeah, but it was a struggle.
Speaker 1: It feels like you're someone that always knows you ready
Speaker 1: there because you got what married at twenty three?
Speaker 2: Yes, I got married very young. I got engaged. Me
Speaker 2: and Ben met when I was eighteen. We got engaged
Speaker 2: when I was twenty one, so we did author of
Speaker 2: college and then twenty three. Yeah, when I got.
Speaker 1: Married, how did you know Ben was the one and
Speaker 1: you were ready to get married? Then?
Speaker 2: It just wasn't even a question. Honestly, I would have
Speaker 2: gotten married sooner, Like I know, it sounds so crazy,
Speaker 2: and it is. But we met when I was eighteen,
Speaker 2: so I was a freshman in college, and then when
Speaker 2: I was a senior, I wasn't allowed to get engaged
Speaker 2: in college. It was like girl, get a degree and
Speaker 2: then we could talk. So I graduated in May, and
Speaker 2: then Ben and I got engaged in June. It was
Speaker 2: I know, it sounds it was four years. I was like, bitch,
Speaker 2: I'm ready, Like let's go. Like I knew like from
Speaker 2: day one that Ben was loved my life. It took him,
Speaker 2: i want to say, like three months to know that
Speaker 2: I was the love of his life. But it's okay.
Speaker 2: Some people were all on our different journeys. We all
Speaker 2: have our impresses.
Speaker 1: I'm you and my wife's Ben.
Speaker 2: Yeah. No, I I try not to like hold resentment.
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, no, I remember that time you knew
Speaker 2: that I was so cute? Yeah, like, okay, you know
Speaker 2: like me, I don't know. I just I just knew.
Speaker 2: And it's so crazy because we met when I'm eighteen.
Speaker 2: I'm thirty now, so there is a huge part of
Speaker 2: my life where Ben isn't a factor. But I don't
Speaker 2: even remember. It's like before Ben and after Ben, Like
Speaker 2: I don't remember. It's weird if ill like tell him
Speaker 2: a story and he wasn't there, I'm like, eh, where
Speaker 2: were you? Like you, I actually feel like we're related
Speaker 2: and we might be, but like whatever, I it's the
Speaker 2: craziest thing. I can't really explain how I knew, but
Speaker 2: I think when I when we first met, I was
Speaker 2: like so excited to have a boyfriend because I loved
Speaker 2: watching movies growing up. I'm like, oh my god, I'm
Speaker 2: literally share from clueless. I finally have a boyfriend. And
Speaker 2: I was so obsessed with the idea of having a
Speaker 2: boyfriend and like the fact that there was this person
Speaker 2: who wanted to spend time with me, and I was
Speaker 2: so excited about it, and then like, I feel like
Speaker 2: a relationship. We really grew up together. So the law
Speaker 2: we were together in the more time we would spend,
Speaker 2: it was like becoming abundantly clear, like we really had
Speaker 2: the same values and we really are the same person.
Speaker 2: And it's so funny because Ben is so funny, but
Speaker 2: he's married to me, so it's like good luck. And
Speaker 2: I always say if he had married anyone else, he
Speaker 2: would be the funniest guy in every room. But people
Speaker 2: say to me, people have known Ben for like three years, like,
Speaker 2: by the way, Ben's funny. I'm like, no, I know,
Speaker 2: but he can't get a word in with me. He's
Speaker 2: just the best. And I honestly, I know it sounds
Speaker 2: so crazy to have gotten married so young. And when
Speaker 2: we were getting married, I grew up in a modern
Speaker 2: Orthodox Jewish community, so it really wasn't that crazy. Most
Speaker 2: my friends have been married around the same age as me.
Speaker 2: But when I would meet like people, you know, regular
Speaker 2: secular folk, they would think it was so crazy. And
Speaker 2: I remember like being offended when people would say that,
Speaker 2: I'm like, you don't know me and Ben, you don't
Speaker 2: know but let me tell you something, the older I've gotten,
Speaker 2: the more I learned, like we were crazy. We've changed
Speaker 2: so much, you know. And when people say like not
Speaker 2: to get married young, like they're right for that, they're
Speaker 2: saying it for a reason. I think that the way
Speaker 2: it worked out for me and Ben is really not
Speaker 2: how it works out for most people. Because I'm so different.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I used to be so annoying, if
Speaker 2: you can imagine it, Like I was just such a
Speaker 2: different person and so was Ben. You know, I was
Speaker 2: like very insecure and I don't know, I just was weird.
Speaker 2: And I and I grew up, I think, into a
Speaker 2: person that's amazing. But I grew up to be somebody
Speaker 2: a little different. And it's possible that I had grown
Speaker 2: that I would have grown into somebody that Ben didn't like.
Speaker 2: And it's possible that Ben would have grown into he
Speaker 2: was twenty one, that he would have grown into somebody
Speaker 2: that I wasn't particularly into. But we really made a
Speaker 2: conscious choice to like grow up together. So I understand
Speaker 2: why people said that, and they were probably right for that.
Speaker 2: But we're different. Sorry, just saw we are. No.
Speaker 1: I think that's a really fair point, and I think
Speaker 1: even Roddy was twenty five and I was twenty eight,
Speaker 1: and even that is somewhat it's still you know, it's
Speaker 1: still younger, and it's like it's it's the same for us,
Speaker 1: like we were sure, you know, it worked out for us.
Speaker 1: But I would say I knew myself very well. Rodiye
Speaker 1: knew herself enough for the time. She's definitely grown. I've
Speaker 1: kind of staid the same, Yeah, And so there is
Speaker 1: a sense of like, sometimes you get lucky and you're
Speaker 1: fortunate and you're blessed and it's beautiful, and sometimes it
Speaker 1: can be really hard. Of course I'm crazy, And I
Speaker 1: think what I'm hearing from you is just like it's
Speaker 1: not an issue if whether you're the rule or the
Speaker 1: exception or whichever one you think you are, the point
Speaker 1: is just be thoughtful about it, like because yeah, you
Speaker 1: don't want to rush into something too young.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I also think Ben's a really patient person. And
Speaker 2: I definitely did not know who I was literally until
Speaker 2: I would say a year or two ago, And I
Speaker 2: think I led with that like sort of insecurity, and
Speaker 2: he was very patient with me, and he was still
Speaker 2: like dealing and growing with his own thing. But I
Speaker 2: don't know if in those early years, if I was
Speaker 2: like the best version of myself, and I think that
Speaker 2: he really saw in me who like my potential and
Speaker 2: was very measured and really patient. So it takes two
Speaker 2: people to tango. And he definitely is like the kinder,
Speaker 2: patient one in the relationship and I'm a little bit
Speaker 2: more like rough around the edges, if you can imagine.
Speaker 2: And he I would attribute a lot of our marital
Speaker 2: success to him.
Speaker 1: I love that much. You love then he's the best. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's amazing, call to me.
Speaker 2: But not you've never met him. He's downstairs, honestly on
Speaker 2: a call. Like, let me tell you, my husband is
Speaker 2: always on a call. I don't know who the hell
Speaker 2: he's talking to. Literally this morning, he doesn't. It's the phone.
Speaker 2: Forty minutes, I'm where are he was like walking the talk,
Speaker 2: I'm on a call. Who the hell are you talking to?
Speaker 2: I can't.
Speaker 1: No, it's it's lovely to say, I want you love
Speaker 1: him like it's it's really beautiful.
Speaker 2: Thank you, I will say. Like, one other reason why
Speaker 2: you shouldn't get married young is I have oddly made
Speaker 2: so many lifelong friends much later in life. And these
Speaker 2: people weren't even at my wedding. It's the weirdest thing. Like,
Speaker 2: and some of these bitches at my wedding, like, girl,
Speaker 2: I don't know, you get out of here, and they're
Speaker 2: like in my pictures and shit. Also, I wish I
Speaker 2: had waited because like, if I had been on ozembic
Speaker 2: at my wedding photos, I would have been a lot
Speaker 2: happier with the end results of the pictures. But that's
Speaker 2: my fault. That's my fault.
Speaker 1: No, I could so relate to that. I'm at that.
Speaker 1: I'm at that stage where I've got a lot of
Speaker 1: friends who are older than me, and they all renewing
Speaker 1: their vows right now, right and they literally were like, Jay,
Speaker 1: you went at my wedding. But I love that. You
Speaker 1: how weird because friends change so much from when you
Speaker 1: get married.
Speaker 2: So much, And I feel like there's a point in
Speaker 2: your life where, like you you have made all of
Speaker 2: your friends, and twenty one was not that for me
Speaker 2: at all.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because you haven't. You haven't worked enough, you know.
Speaker 2: And so many of my best lifelong friends are people
Speaker 2: I've met through work.
Speaker 1: How's that? How does that work?
Speaker 2: I like my two of my best friends, like Brian
Speaker 2: and Taylor like I met they were guests on our show.
Speaker 2: You meet a lot of people, and like, you know,
Speaker 2: the reputation of podcasters, content creators, influencers like is what
Speaker 2: it is for reason, Like some of them are insufferable,
Speaker 2: but some of them are just like the most fabulous
Speaker 2: people you'll ever meet in your entire life. And that's
Speaker 2: my friends Brian and Taylor. And they were not at
Speaker 2: my wedding. And sometimes I'll think about that and I'll
Speaker 2: be like, oh, I should have wait, yeah, I should
Speaker 2: have listen to everybody. Well you I know, but you know,
Speaker 2: they do say that's a curse. I don't know if
Speaker 2: that's just for the real housewives, but every real housewife
Speaker 2: who has ever renewed her vows ended up divorced.
Speaker 1: Really just about that that's a fact.
Speaker 2: Yeah, wow, you know it's a fact. But it's like,
Speaker 2: I don't plan on renewing my vows. Also, I feel
Speaker 2: like bow renewal is like an inherently non Jewish thing,
Speaker 2: Like Jewish people don't renew their vows. I don't know,
Speaker 2: at you a single Jewish person that's renewed her vows.
Speaker 2: Oh interesting, Yeah, I don't know if it's like in
Speaker 2: the Bible or anything. I just feel like it's not culturally.
Speaker 1: Jewish interesting, got it, Okay, understood? Understood. Yeah, it's a
Speaker 1: I guess, yeah, I've I'm always trying to convince Rady
Speaker 1: that I want to do it, and she's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: of course you wont another wedding because you didn't plan
Speaker 1: the last one once.
Speaker 2: I'm so with her on that, although the only reason
Speaker 2: I would do it was would be like to get
Speaker 2: new pictures because I was like so ugly at my wedding.
Speaker 2: It's kind of like one of my biggest regrets.
Speaker 1: I think Rady would do it for new pictures because
Speaker 1: she even though she looked absolutely gorgeous, she's still she's evolve.
Speaker 2: They're not really, but I guess there are. It's a
Speaker 2: time capsule, you know. It's a moment in time, not
Speaker 2: a moment I want to remember.
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Speaker 1: the code on Purpose. How do you decide what parts
Speaker 1: of your life to share publicly and what parts to
Speaker 1: keep private.
Speaker 2: I generally just lead with what I'm comfortable with. It's
Speaker 2: like if I wouldn't be ashamed to tell the person
Speaker 2: next me on the train, and I don't really feel
Speaker 2: shame about a lot of things. I feel like maybe
Speaker 2: that's something I could and should work on. But no,
Speaker 2: I would say the ozembic thing is like the one
Speaker 2: thing I really had to push myself to share. But
Speaker 2: for the most part, I share what's comfortable, and I'm
Speaker 2: just I'm an open person. I think that some people
Speaker 2: find that unconceivable, but I just am.
Speaker 1: So it's easy for you. But you were saying earlier
Speaker 1: that there's there's times when you're like, oh, this could
Speaker 1: be judds, this could yeah, this could be misconstrued in
Speaker 1: so and I think that's a really valid point. I
Speaker 1: appreciate you being so honest about it. That's why I'm
Speaker 1: raising it because I think at one point we were
Speaker 1: in this phase where we're like, vulnerability means you share
Speaker 1: everything with everyone, and I don't subscribe to that definition
Speaker 1: of vulnerability. I think vulnerability is actually I know why
Speaker 1: I'm sharing it with this person, and I feel safe
Speaker 1: to share it there, and so I think that societies
Speaker 1: had to evolve. And then you also see performative vulnerability
Speaker 1: where people are like literally telling a vulnerable story only because.
Speaker 2: They you get rewarded for it.
Speaker 1: Totally exactly. It's then ruins the purpose of vulnerability because
Speaker 1: then it's not vulnerable. So it's like this messy space
Speaker 1: where I'm trying to I'm constantly reflecting on like what's
Speaker 1: truly vulnerable? How comfortable do I feel about it? What
Speaker 1: does that mean? Yeah?
Speaker 2: I guess then, like I wouldn't categorize myself as a
Speaker 2: particularly vulnerable person because when I share things, even things
Speaker 2: that are deeply personal, I don't feel like it's a
Speaker 2: big deal, do you know what I mean? I'm just
Speaker 2: in hope. That's just how I am. So I would
Speaker 2: feel weirder not telling people things Like even when I
Speaker 2: was trying to conceive with Ben, I do a podcast
Speaker 2: ever day, I'm alway talking about what's going on in
Speaker 2: my life and my marriage, and it was this huge
Speaker 2: part that I wasn't sharing, and it felt so deceitful.
Speaker 2: It was so foreign to me because I'm so used
Speaker 2: to saying, yeah, last night I did X, Y and
Speaker 2: Z and my color and my underwearest purple, Like I'm
Speaker 2: such a sharer that actually not sharing is what makes
Speaker 2: me uncomfortable.
Speaker 1: And why did you not share that? What was there?
Speaker 2: You know, what's it's like a Jewish superstition, like.
Speaker 1: H culture culture, it felt private? Yeah, you know, yeah, no, no,
Speaker 1: I think Indian culture Jewish culture are very similar. It's
Speaker 1: a lot in common. And yeah, there's definitely there are
Speaker 1: definitely certain things that you don't share and you don't
Speaker 1: open up too much about you wait.
Speaker 2: Till they're real and yeah, taking care of you exactly.
Speaker 1: Yeah, No, no, I respect that, and I get that.
Speaker 1: I think it's I think it's healthy for people to,
Speaker 1: you know, find I just I just want to encourage
Speaker 1: people to think about, you know, whether they're a public
Speaker 1: figure or not, who you share what with This is
Speaker 1: so important and just don't fall into the trap of oh,
Speaker 1: everyone's being vulnerable, that's what it means to you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I think that's like a byproduct of the
Speaker 2: Internet is like nobody really keeps anything to themselves anymore.
Speaker 2: And I think what started out as like a genuinely
Speaker 2: like good initiative to open up a things is now
Speaker 2: like we're all sharing, we all know a little too
Speaker 2: much about each other.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: That's how I feel, let's pull back.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Sometimes I word something like we shouldn't tell us that, Like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't think there was a need for.
Speaker 2: You with myself. Like today on the podcast, I was like,
Speaker 2: I gotta go. I got a poop, And it's like,
Speaker 2: why when I say that and just say it again,
Speaker 2: do you know?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah? Yeah. And also one thing's really interesting to me.
Speaker 1: I got a friend's birthday last month and he said
Speaker 1: to me, he was like, Jay, like, I noticed, like
Speaker 1: you never post what we're doing personally and privately. And
Speaker 1: I said to him, I said, it's because I'm really lucky.
Speaker 1: I think my public life's amazing, but my private life's
Speaker 1: better than my public life. And I imagine a world
Speaker 1: in which I'm sitting in an old rocking chair talking
Speaker 1: to my grandkids and talking to family and sharing these
Speaker 1: stories that no one knows anything about. Yeah, And there's
Speaker 1: something about that feels really sacred and special to me.
Speaker 1: And I really want that because I remember years ago
Speaker 1: sitting with someone and I'm not even family or close
Speaker 1: with him, but I remember sitting on a beach with him,
Speaker 1: and he was an older man. I was in my
Speaker 1: late twenties, he was probably in his sixties, and he
Speaker 1: just had so many life stories to share. He wasn't famous,
Speaker 1: he wasn't well known, and he just had all these
Speaker 1: cool stories that I was like, no one's gonna know these, yeah,
Speaker 1: but he gets to live them every day. And there
Speaker 1: was something about that. I was like, I want to
Speaker 1: have memories that are only mine. Yeah, that was important
Speaker 1: to me.
Speaker 2: I think that that's something I learn as I get older.
Speaker 2: But it also makes it complicated when sharing is your life.
Speaker 2: And I feel like there used to be a time
Speaker 2: when I would literally be sharing a piece of content
Speaker 2: every thirty minutes. I would have a cocktail and post,
Speaker 2: which is like so dangerous and stupid, but the craziest,
Speaker 2: Oh my god. I used to be like blackout in
Speaker 2: a drive through at Waterburger in Texas, like Blackout ordering
Speaker 2: like a crispy chicken biscuit like whatever, like, and it
Speaker 2: was just I looked so scary and I'd catch them
Speaker 2: all over my face, like and I think that's why people,
Speaker 2: you know, that's why I have a lot of the
Speaker 2: following that I do. They loved that life. But that's
Speaker 2: not my life anymore. And it occurred to me, like
Speaker 2: several years ago that I didn't have to share every
Speaker 2: thought that I have. One it was getting me in
Speaker 2: trouble and two like, yeah, some things can just be
Speaker 2: like thoughts or memories or things that you keep to yourself.
Speaker 2: And so I do feel like my strategy has shifted.
Speaker 2: But it's tough when that's also how you make a living.
Speaker 1: Yeah you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's yeah. So how
Speaker 1: do you balance that.
Speaker 2: I'm working on it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's hard.
Speaker 2: It is hard. I think that I've gotten much better,
Speaker 2: and I look at it a lot like this is
Speaker 2: my job. We're putting out content like for the job,
Speaker 2: but it doesn't have to be like the most authentic
Speaker 2: one percent, three hundred and sixty degree view of my life.
Speaker 2: Like I can have things for myself.
Speaker 1: That's it's it's good to know you're working on it.
Speaker 1: That's the point, right, So none of us have figured
Speaker 1: it out.
Speaker 2: Too. Like an Instagram story from twenty nineteen, I would die.
Speaker 1: I would die.
Speaker 2: Well, I was out of control, Like I just used
Speaker 2: to say so many things like stop talking, okay, stop
Speaker 2: like not everything needs to be shared.
Speaker 1: One thing I want to dive into with you. We've
Speaker 1: talked about a zembig, We've talked about pregnancy, we've talked
Speaker 1: about marriage, and of course we can keep talking about those.
Speaker 1: But I think what often happens with someone like yourself.
Speaker 1: And I'm projecting because I feel this happens to me sometimes,
Speaker 1: But I'm projecting this idea that people don't see the
Speaker 1: hard work from a business perspective, the strategy perspective, the
Speaker 1: sleepless nights, the growth, Like you've built something incredible and
Speaker 1: it's shadowed, not in a bad way, but it's overshadowed
Speaker 1: by this amazing persona that you have and your charisma
Speaker 1: and your aura and everything else. Right, It's like it's
Speaker 1: that's what we're watching and that's what we're captivated by,
Speaker 1: but there's a really thoughtful business person behind it who's
Speaker 1: and I don't mean that from a oh, you're just
Speaker 1: figuring out how to build a business, what you mean? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean it from like a you've you've figured out
Speaker 1: how to turn a tumbler page into you know, yeah, exactly,
Speaker 1: which which is really amazing and I think so many
Speaker 1: people today want to do that. So I wanted to
Speaker 1: kind of go back to the start and ask you, like,
Speaker 1: what did you want to be before girl with no job?
Speaker 2: That's a great question. I almost like didn't have time
Speaker 2: to figure it out. So I started this tumbler in
Speaker 2: freshman year of college, which is when people figure out
Speaker 2: what they want to do. It very slowly, but also
Speaker 2: quickly became something I was making money off of. So
Speaker 2: much so by the time I graduated, I was making
Speaker 2: like sponsored Instagram posts for a fee that would have
Speaker 2: been my salary if I ended up with like a
Speaker 2: job in media, and at the time, like content creation
Speaker 2: was not a job. So when I made the decision,
Speaker 2: it just made no sense, like to sit at a
Speaker 2: desk and earn a living that was comparatively small to
Speaker 2: what I was pulling for my Instagram. But people were
Speaker 2: just like they couldn't believe it. They're like, it's not
Speaker 2: gonna last forever, and I'm like, maybe, but maybe what
Speaker 2: if I just ran with it? And it was really
Speaker 2: like inconceivable to people that I was not getting a
Speaker 2: job postgrad and that I would be like on my phone.
Speaker 2: And I understand why because right after that I was
Speaker 2: making a really good living, but I was doing nothing,
Speaker 2: Like I was home all day, and I was watching
Speaker 2: a lot of TV, and I was like recapping in
Speaker 2: and writing funny blog posts and I was making money,
Speaker 2: but I was not doing anything, Like, I had no
Speaker 2: structure to my day. I did not set an alarm
Speaker 2: and it was lovely, but it was not fulfilling, and
Speaker 2: I knew that it wasn't a sustainable way. And that's
Speaker 2: why when we started the podcast, I loved it so
Speaker 2: much for a million different reasons. But it gave me structure,
Speaker 2: It gave me a day like and now even to
Speaker 2: this day, I very much operate like on Monday to Friday,
Speaker 2: nine to five. I work forty hours a week, like
Speaker 2: every other American like, and I think some people run
Speaker 2: from that sort of convention, but when you didn't have it,
Speaker 2: it was like kind of horrible. So I craved that
Speaker 2: sort of structure instability, Like, seriously, if you're looking to
Speaker 2: answer an email for me after five o'clock, I'm not answering, Like,
Speaker 2: I have boundaries, and I love that my life kind
Speaker 2: of mirrors that conventional work life. But that was a
Speaker 2: goal that Jackie and I like set because this line
Speaker 2: of work, well, yes, it can be very lucrative. It
Speaker 2: is kind of nuts, and it can be a little unstable.
Speaker 2: You have a month where you get a ton of
Speaker 2: work in a month where you don't get So it
Speaker 2: was fun for a girl who was twenty one, but
Speaker 2: I knew it wasn't going to be like a sustainable
Speaker 2: way to live. But the funny thing is that I
Speaker 2: think there's like a large, you know, misconception that like
Speaker 2: I work an hour a day. People are always saying
Speaker 2: that to me, Like it's like when you say someone
Speaker 2: from SNL works an hour a week, Like, well, no,
Speaker 2: you see them an hour a week. You see me
Speaker 2: one hour day on the show. But there's so much
Speaker 2: that goes into running a show of that size. And
Speaker 2: also it's not the only thing that I do. I'm
Speaker 2: not bothered so much that people think I don't work
Speaker 2: like whatever, you know, Like, sorry, you're dumb, you don't
Speaker 2: know how the industry works, Like, bitch, I work hard. Okay.
Speaker 1: Have you ever had a real drug?
Speaker 2: Oh my god? Okay, so yes, Like in the sense
Speaker 2: that throughout high school and like summer's in high school,
Speaker 2: I was a camp counselor. I worked at a toy
Speaker 2: store by the when I went to college, All through
Speaker 2: four years of college, I worked a had an internship,
Speaker 2: like a paid five day a week internship at a
Speaker 2: media company. It was an internship, but it was structured
Speaker 2: at like a corporate job. So yes, I did work
Speaker 2: in a corporate office for four years, never like full
Speaker 2: full time because I was part time student And it
Speaker 2: probably would have worked at that media company postgrad if
Speaker 2: I didn't decide to become a full time content creator.
Speaker 1: So like yes and no, Yeah, what did you learn
Speaker 1: from the toy store? The intenship that.
Speaker 2: Work toy store was not for fucking me. Like, seriously,
Speaker 2: gift wrapping is hell on Earth. I still can't do it,
Speaker 2: And honestly, when anybody asked me to wrap a gift,
Speaker 2: I actually have trauma from that fucking store. Really yeah,
Speaker 2: it was horrible, like that stupid gift wrapping section, Like
Speaker 2: no matter how many times somebody showed me how to
Speaker 2: do it, like I could not fucking do it.
Speaker 1: Here, I am trying to make this amazing point that
Speaker 1: you guys, am, your point, just this idea that maybe
Speaker 1: you picked up all these really cool skills that help
Speaker 1: you in your career today.
Speaker 2: That actually I will say, like we'll get a toy
Speaker 2: story like having to talk to strangers like who you
Speaker 2: don't know, and like pretend like you know what you're
Speaker 2: talking about. That builds character, That builds actually like a
Speaker 2: great personable vibe in the corporate space. I don't feel
Speaker 2: like I learned much, honestly. I I liked the free
Speaker 2: lunch like it was amazing. It was one of those
Speaker 2: big companies that gives you free lunch, and there were
Speaker 2: snacks everywhere, like free snacks. I was always eating goldfish
Speaker 2: and m and ms, and I liked I don't know.
Speaker 2: Actually my sisters worked at the same company. It was
Speaker 2: this huge company with like different media companies within it,
Speaker 2: so they all work at different companies, so we all
Speaker 2: have lunch together. I have very fond memories of that time.
Speaker 2: And I think it's a good corporate like media especially
Speaker 2: that's like a lot of women. It's it's a good
Speaker 2: environment to learn how to talk to people, learn how
Speaker 2: to deal with like workplace antics and people's personalities. And
Speaker 2: sometimes I do miss like I think there's a lot
Speaker 2: of stability that comes with the corporate job, especially when
Speaker 2: you're thinking about like motherhood. I mean some of these
Speaker 2: bitches over here with there's six months paid maternity leave,
Speaker 2: like that is a joy, and they're a corporate health insurance.
Speaker 2: There are a lot of things about like what people
Speaker 2: consider a boring corporate life that actually is somebody without
Speaker 2: a lot of like without a lot of that I'm
Speaker 2: very envious of, especially when I'm like entering this phase
Speaker 2: of my life, like me and my husband both have
Speaker 2: our own companies, Like we don't have maternity leave. We
Speaker 2: leave and the company suffers. Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2: There's no built in we have our own two person
Speaker 2: health insurance. It's expensive and it sucks, okay, Like people,
Speaker 2: there is a little bit of that privilege from the
Speaker 2: corporate life. And I know people who are in corporate
Speaker 2: would look at someone like me and be like, oh,
Speaker 2: I always wanted to be my own boss and it's great,
Speaker 2: but you know, there's no insurance. Yeah, there is a
Speaker 2: one hundred percent. And I feel like I'm only as
Speaker 2: I get older appreciating the prose of that sort of
Speaker 2: what people would say more stereotypically boring life.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think that stigma needs to go as well.
Speaker 1: I think that there was this whole cultural shift towards entrepreneurship.
Speaker 1: Quit your job, build your passion, and it's like, I
Speaker 1: don't think either is for everyone, and I think we've
Speaker 1: kind of made.
Speaker 2: Like we've put we've put more value on the latter,
Speaker 2: the entrepreneurship. But to be clear, I feel like we
Speaker 2: did people of disservice when we did that, because there
Speaker 2: is something lovely about a boring job that doesn't keep
Speaker 2: you up all night, that you can set boundaries with
Speaker 2: that pace, that makes that pace your bills and you
Speaker 2: don't own it. You don't overrun the company if things
Speaker 2: are going south. That's literally not my problem. Like there
Speaker 2: is a piece in that. Yeah, Now you don't have
Speaker 2: as much creative control. Who cares?
Speaker 1: Yeah. And also just like I think about this very often,
Speaker 1: like I couldn't do anything without my team. My team
Speaker 1: are all employed, right, and it's like I couldn't last
Speaker 1: without them.
Speaker 2: So it's not like one of the best parts though
Speaker 2: it's amazing being a business owner. It is like other
Speaker 2: people making their living from you.
Speaker 1: I love it. It's the best feeling in the World's
Speaker 1: the craziest feeling. Yeah, it's the most fulfilling feeling. And
Speaker 1: I know I couldn't do anything without them, which is
Speaker 1: why I value I'm like, oh, we going to push
Speaker 1: entrepreneurship real, right, but it's like what would we do
Speaker 1: without our amazing team members? Like I know I wouldn't survive.
Speaker 1: My chief of staff was like unwealth for like a week,
Speaker 1: and I was just like, I was like, I don't
Speaker 1: know what to do right?
Speaker 2: That toxic like hustle culture entrepreneurshi I'm not a fan of.
Speaker 1: Yeah, But was there ever a time you had to
Speaker 1: do it? Was there every time you did have to
Speaker 1: work twenty four seven.
Speaker 2: Before when when things started to really blow up for me?
Speaker 2: But it wasn't this like standardized economy like it is now,
Speaker 2: Like there's a formula you blow up on Instagram, you
Speaker 2: get an agent, you get a manager, you get a
Speaker 2: rate card, you get a media kit. Like No, that
Speaker 2: was like not the case for me. So when things
Speaker 2: started to work really quickly, I was doing all my
Speaker 2: own deals. I did not have a publicist, I did
Speaker 2: not have a manager, I did not have an agent,
Speaker 2: I didn't have an assistant. It was literally just me
Speaker 2: and it was manageable because it was my full time job.
Speaker 2: But I don't know shit about fuck, Like I'm literally
Speaker 2: seventeen like somebody else. So I was just kind of
Speaker 2: making it up as I went, and I think people
Speaker 2: really underestimated me because I was advocating on my own behalf.
Speaker 2: I was eighteen. I'm much better now, but I used
Speaker 2: to have like a really thick, long Island accent, and
Speaker 2: I was just like every other word out of my
Speaker 2: mouth is like and totally and it's not necessarily giving you,
Speaker 2: you know, business woman. So I would get underestimated a lot.
Speaker 2: And it was a unique time. Now the girlies and boys,
Speaker 2: but mostly girlies who end up doing what I do
Speaker 2: now it's kind of all set up for them. But
Speaker 2: at the time, it wasn't a thing people like a
Speaker 2: brand would reach out and based on like if it
Speaker 2: was a brand I heard. I'm like, one of the
Speaker 2: first brands I ever worked with was Burger King and
Speaker 2: they're like, how much would you want to And I
Speaker 2: was like a thousand dollars and they were like okay,
Speaker 2: and I was like, bitch, a thousand dollars. I about
Speaker 2: a purse, I was like, and then I forgot like
Speaker 2: I had to pay taxes, but whatever. And that's another thing,
Speaker 2: by the way, when you do this line of work
Speaker 2: and nobody teaches you how to do your taxes, not
Speaker 2: me getting a bill from the government, like in twenty
Speaker 2: eighteen for like one hundred thousand dollars to pay taxes. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and my biggest fear is going to jail. But yeah,
Speaker 2: that's another thing they don't tell you. Nobody teaches you.
Speaker 2: You kind of just have to learn along the way.
Speaker 2: Now I feel like it's pretty set up where if
Speaker 2: you join this line of work, there are certain business
Speaker 2: managers and accounts who know how to do this. But
Speaker 2: at the time when I was getting started, it was like, girl,
Speaker 2: you're on your own. Good luck.
Speaker 1: Have you ever been close to going to jail? No?
Speaker 2: No, if only I was that interesting. Like when I
Speaker 2: was I senior in high school, I went to go
Speaker 2: visit my sister Jackie at college and it was a flight,
Speaker 2: so I packed up my things. I didn't have a
Speaker 2: group in Manhattan, so I didn't have a license at
Speaker 2: the time, which used to make traveling really hard because
Speaker 2: I didn't have any form of identification. I used to
Speaker 2: give them a high school idea. They're like, this is
Speaker 2: not legally admissible, so I'd be like, I don't have
Speaker 2: a license. Sorry, I'm literally seventeen and I don't have
Speaker 2: a driver. I don't have a driver's license, and for
Speaker 2: some reason, they pulled my bag and they were going
Speaker 2: through my wallet and they found my fake ID and
Speaker 2: they were like, I thought you didn't have Now now
Speaker 2: I realized they were like doing this to scare me,
Speaker 2: but at the time, I thought I was really going
Speaker 2: to jail. They brought a cop out. She wants to
Speaker 2: call my parents. She's swiping my hands. You know when
Speaker 2: you ever get like that, and they're like, you tested
Speaker 2: positive for explosives. I'm like, bitch, what are you talking about.
Speaker 2: I'm literally high school student.
Speaker 1: Wait, how do you test positive?
Speaker 2: I don't know. I mean I had gotten a mad
Speaker 2: a cure, so I imagine there was like some chemicals
Speaker 2: on my hands. But it was so they were really
Speaker 2: trying to scare me, and this police officer was like, listen,
Speaker 2: I think you're a good kid. I'm gonna let you go.
Speaker 2: And I ran for my fucking life. I was so afraid,
Speaker 2: but I was never I didn't break the law. I
Speaker 2: didn't say that. This was my idea. It could have
Speaker 2: been my cousin Sandra, Like. It was the scared, most
Speaker 2: scared I've ever been in my life, and probably the
Speaker 2: closest I've ever gotten to go into jail, which is
Speaker 2: like not that close.
Speaker 1: Still, it was scary.
Speaker 2: It was scary. And let it be a lesson to
Speaker 2: any of the miners listening, like, put your fake ID
Speaker 2: in your check bag.
Speaker 1: Got it, Yeah, put your fake idea in say bag.
Speaker 2: Don't say I never touch anything.
Speaker 1: What advice would you have, like you were saying, like
Speaker 1: it seems like and I agree with you, there is
Speaker 1: more set up. We kind of yeah, I think our careers.
Speaker 1: Actually we didn't know each other then, but they took
Speaker 1: off her on the same time. I was twenty sixteen
Speaker 1: years oh yeah, I was a little older. I was
Speaker 1: twenty eight, oh yeah, twenty seven, twenty eight.
Speaker 2: So we had like a pretty good idea of the world.
Speaker 1: To some degree for sure. I mean I never knew
Speaker 1: a person. I'd never known anyone who worked in entertainment,
Speaker 1: anyone who'd worked in media, anyone who'd done outside anything
Speaker 1: outside of London. So it was a whole new world
Speaker 1: for me completely. But you're right, there are more systems
Speaker 1: today than they were then. What advice would you have
Speaker 1: for people who are at the age you were when
Speaker 1: you first blew up, like seventeen eighteen years old, because
Speaker 1: that's happening more and more now, Yeah, you were more
Speaker 1: of an anomaly.
Speaker 2: Yes, that's now I'm old in the space. Yeah. I
Speaker 2: have two A really hardcore piece. Yeah, I mean you're ancient. Sorry.
Speaker 2: I have two extremely important pieces of advice if you
Speaker 2: find yourself wanting to get into this line of work,
Speaker 2: Like I don't care who you are, where you're from,
Speaker 2: what you've done. Delete all your old social media posts,
Speaker 2: like none of it is gonna age. Well, it's gonna
Speaker 2: come back to buy you and they ask, and it's
Speaker 2: gonna ruin your life. Like if I had to go
Speaker 2: through what I went through, Like everybody found my old
Speaker 2: tweets and they were like, oh r, she's fucking crazy.
Speaker 2: Delete your tweets. I ca't believe people are still having
Speaker 2: their tweets. Girl, Delete your tweets, like stop. That's the
Speaker 2: first second of all is every dollar you make, put
Speaker 2: fifty cents in a savings account for your taxes because
Speaker 2: that's depending on where you live. Like, that's what it is.
Speaker 2: It's half. And the good thing is sometimes you save
Speaker 2: too much and then you get a little left over.
Speaker 2: But just know, if somebody pays you one hundred dollars,
Speaker 2: you got fifty.
Speaker 1: Yeah, very pragmatic advice.
Speaker 2: Well as if her in my life, like when when
Speaker 2: before I had a business manager, trying to do my
Speaker 2: own taxes with like an old school accountant who, like
Speaker 2: I think I got from like a family member. They
Speaker 2: had no idea what I did for a living, and
Speaker 2: so I was underpaying, I was under reporting. I was
Speaker 2: not getting any like ten ninety nine from the brands
Speaker 2: that I work with. It was such a mess. It
Speaker 2: was the wild wild West, so much so that years
Speaker 2: later I got that huge bill and it was like
Speaker 2: the worst thing to ever happen to me. I almost
Speaker 2: had to go on a payment plan with the government,
Speaker 2: Like it was so crazy. And I think that happens
Speaker 2: a lot in entertainment, especially just like new wave of
Speaker 2: social media entertainers. So finding an accountant, a business manager,
Speaker 2: or teaching yourself, that's fine. But as long as you're
Speaker 2: putting away half of what you make for taxes, like
Speaker 2: you're safe.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Don't you think it's incredible how much you've learned
Speaker 1: in the last day years.
Speaker 2: Yes, Sometimes I go back and read my old emails
Speaker 2: of like me like talking to people, and I'm like, girl,
Speaker 2: that's the worst email ever. But it's like so cool
Speaker 2: to see how different I speak now and how i'm
Speaker 2: I think a lot smarter and able to advocate on
Speaker 2: my own behalf, and the little girl sending those emails
Speaker 2: work out like that's who I am.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's big. Did you ever pretend to be owned manager?
Speaker 2: As the name Rebecca? I was always pretending to be
Speaker 2: my own assistant, like trying to get dinner reservations, trying
Speaker 2: to set up calls a cloud is available. I mean,
Speaker 2: while it's like literally mein and it worked.
Speaker 1: It worked. They negotiating your behalf sometimes.
Speaker 2: Well, I actually was always negotiating on my own behalf.
Speaker 2: And because I always found that, like so many of
Speaker 2: the girls who worked at media companies worked at agencies,
Speaker 2: these account managers were followers of mine, were listeners to
Speaker 2: the toast, and that's always worked on my own behalf. Actually,
Speaker 2: I think like a huge demographic of my following is
Speaker 2: media girls, girls who who work at brands, who work
Speaker 2: at agencies, And so it's always kind of benefited me
Speaker 2: to lead with me because they're excited to work and
Speaker 2: they want to make it work. And look, it's charny.
Speaker 1: On the other line, if someone wants to be the
Speaker 1: next to you and start the toast, and you know,
Speaker 1: start their.
Speaker 2: Virtual don't everybody's set the toast isn't off.
Speaker 1: What advice would you have for someone who's listening to you,
Speaker 1: watching you going, I want to build that, I want
Speaker 1: to create that. Where where should they start work? Should
Speaker 1: they think about? Well?
Speaker 2: I would just get started. I think a lot of
Speaker 2: people are always talking about they're like making strategy plans
Speaker 2: and outlines for projects. Just get the project up and running.
Speaker 2: You can record a podcast on your phone. The voice
Speaker 2: Memo app actually is very high quality audio. It's good
Speaker 2: enough for a starting podcast. Then you can start to
Speaker 2: make money, invest in the sure microphones that everybody has.
Speaker 2: But before then, like, just get started. People are always
Speaker 2: like throwing launch parties for things that don't exist yet, like, just.
Speaker 1: Get to work, do it, yeah, don't don't overthink it.
Speaker 3: No.
Speaker 2: And it's also like it's a podcast, Okay, it's not
Speaker 2: like the nuclear program. It's just just talk.
Speaker 1: What's the new?
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I was trying to sound smart. I didn't think of anything.
Speaker 1: No, I love it. I couldn't agree with you more
Speaker 1: as well. I think there's just such a I feel
Speaker 1: like we're all stifling ourselves by procrastinating.
Speaker 2: And we're afraid of being judged. Right, we want to
Speaker 2: put something out that's perfect, but it's like, you don't
Speaker 2: get far without people making fun of you. Like I'm
Speaker 2: sure my old posts used to get sent around my
Speaker 2: high school like, oh my god, look what Quauda is doing. Cringe, cringe, crns. Well,
Speaker 2: it's not so cringe anymore, like girl, because I'm successful
Speaker 2: and you're not. But you have that's just part if
Speaker 2: you if you can't take being mocked, like I wish
Speaker 2: that weren't the case because people are cruel and it
Speaker 2: is what it is. And think about how you talk
Speaker 2: to your friends about people on social media. So someone's
Speaker 2: going to talk about you like that and you have
Speaker 2: to be okay with that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, did you lose any friends along the way.
Speaker 2: No, Actually, I've always been really good. I've never been
Speaker 2: that girl with like a thousand friends. I've always had
Speaker 2: like five really good friends and they're the same friends
Speaker 2: I love. I love that too. There I have like
Speaker 2: the best friends. But you know, you do notice people
Speaker 2: treating you differently, like peripherally, and whenever anybody like started
Speaker 2: being extra nice or whatever. I always accepted it, like, sure,
Speaker 2: you want to come to your Hampton's house, I'll be there.
Speaker 2: But you know, you got to keep note of people
Speaker 2: who only started acting that way at a certain time
Speaker 2: in your life.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah you have.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there is definitely that switch. And and yeah I'm
Speaker 1: the same as you have all my same friends from
Speaker 1: back in the day. I can't I literally fly to
Speaker 1: London tonight to see everyone looking forward to just yeah,
Speaker 1: just catching up, kicking it. And it's it's one of
Speaker 1: those things that I've also fortunate that I had such
Speaker 1: a good group of friends right before everything took off.
Speaker 1: You must feel like with Ben too, because it was
Speaker 1: around the same time.
Speaker 2: So I was like, yeah, I guess I met Ben
Speaker 2: freshman year and freshman years also when I started my blog.
Speaker 2: I don't think it really took off till a year later,
Speaker 2: but he's been there since the very beginning.
Speaker 1: Yeah, how much do you think that?
Speaker 2: That's a good question. But I often like thank the
Speaker 2: Lord that I don't have to date at all period,
Speaker 2: because I think dating end this day and age is horrible.
Speaker 2: But also like with my weird job, like I think
Speaker 2: it would just I wouldn't even know how to explain
Speaker 2: it to people, and like I would just feel so
Speaker 2: like awkward and embarrassed. So I'm like grateful for that.
Speaker 2: But again, I think having this really stable force in
Speaker 2: my life in Ben when it came to when it
Speaker 2: came to like you know, how I felt about myself,
Speaker 2: how I felt about my job, Like I think stability
Speaker 2: is so beneficial when you're trying to build a business
Speaker 2: and like having someone to come home to and having
Speaker 2: a very stable personal life. I think it allowed me
Speaker 2: to be a little nutty in different areas of my life,
Speaker 2: like my job, because I didn't have to worry that
Speaker 2: I was going to come home and it would be chaos,
Speaker 2: Like Ben was always there, just how was your day?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's what it is. You just hit
Speaker 1: the nail on the head. I think there's certain stages
Speaker 1: in life where you go if I decide this, it
Speaker 1: now no longer takes up any space. I felt that
Speaker 1: way about getting married. I felt that way about deciding
Speaker 1: which city we were going to live, because when we
Speaker 1: first moved to the States, we lived in New York
Speaker 1: for two years, then we moved to la We've been
Speaker 1: there for six years. When we decided we were living
Speaker 1: in LA and we got our place. It was like
Speaker 1: another thing at there was a settled that freed up space.
Speaker 1: And I think we're currently living at a time where
Speaker 1: we struggle to make decisions, yes, because we don't want
Speaker 1: to kind of you know, put our roots down, but
Speaker 1: actually that creates more chaos in our lives.
Speaker 2: One thousand percent. And I think we also live in
Speaker 2: a culture that values that's sort of like wonderless do
Speaker 2: I live in my car and I don't care, I
Speaker 2: don't have a job. Well, I like a little bit structure,
Speaker 2: a little bit boring, a little bit settled. I think
Speaker 2: that's me getting older. But I also think it's just
Speaker 2: like there's value in also leading a very sort of ordinary.
Speaker 2: That's one of my sister's favorite quotes. And I forget
Speaker 2: it's like, you know, being ordinary in your personal life
Speaker 2: so you can be violent in your creative or artistic life,
Speaker 2: because it's like you can't have a million balls in
Speaker 2: the air at one time. But so to have a
Speaker 2: very I don't want to say regular because I feel
Speaker 2: like that as a negative connotation, but like a very peaceful,
Speaker 2: very settled private life, it really does allow you to
Speaker 2: you know, for me, it's my work for anyone, it
Speaker 2: could be something else, just to like, I don't know,
Speaker 2: fuck shit up.
Speaker 1: You know what's the hardest part about working with family
Speaker 1: and what's there?
Speaker 2: Is it?
Speaker 1: One? Really?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I know, And I'm unique in that. I think
Speaker 2: some people have different family issues. I could never I mean,
Speaker 2: look at how many female podcasting duos that it's every
Speaker 2: day we're talking about another one breaking up. Me and
Speaker 2: Jackie will be podcasting to the day that we die,
Speaker 2: like we are bound by blood. She's the only person
Speaker 2: I can really talk to honestly. Like, I think a
Speaker 2: lot of people think I'm very confrontational because I'm loud
Speaker 2: and like a little aggressive, but actually, like if I
Speaker 2: have a problem with you, I'll just start crying. Like
Speaker 2: I cannot talk to people except my sister. I could
Speaker 2: say whatever I want and it just like I don't
Speaker 2: have a single complaint about working with family.
Speaker 1: That's amazing. Yeah, I know, I know. I love that
Speaker 1: me too.
Speaker 2: To some people, they're like so confused by it. For me,
Speaker 2: I wouldn't have it any other way.
Speaker 1: No, I love that. For you. I'm glad. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's it's the best thing when it works.
Speaker 2: Yes, Yeah, And I know, I'm special and lucky that
Speaker 2: it does work.
Speaker 1: How is your relationship had to change? Like, what's it
Speaker 1: meant to keep that up? Like what have you had
Speaker 1: to do in order to have a sister relationship and
Speaker 1: a business partner relationship because or all your conversations always
Speaker 1: about the podcast.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's so intertwined. But interestingly enough, when
Speaker 2: Jackie and I were growing up, were four sisters total
Speaker 2: from top to bottom, Like there's six years between us,
Speaker 2: so we're all really tight, and we were all really
Speaker 2: tight growing up. You know, there were different dynamics as
Speaker 2: we got older, Like in the beginning, it was always
Speaker 2: the two older sisters and the two younger sisters, Me
Speaker 2: and Margot, Like we were just sort of divided by age,
Speaker 2: and Olivia and Jackie would like leave us out, and
Speaker 2: me and Margaret were just like sharing a room, so
Speaker 2: we were like, Okay, whatever, I guess it's just us.
Speaker 2: And then as we got older, my interest started to
Speaker 2: align a lot more with Olivia's, and then Jackie and
Speaker 2: Margo became like really similar and really close to the
Speaker 2: dynamics of what we shifted. But the dynamics when we
Speaker 2: were kids were never Jackie and I we actually probably
Speaker 2: got along the least. We didn't fight, we didn't hate
Speaker 2: each other, We just were not drawn to one another.
Speaker 2: So I would say we were probably the least close
Speaker 2: out of all four. Not that we had issues, but
Speaker 2: we were just not I don't think we understood each other.
Speaker 2: Jackie's very reserved, Jackie's very quiet but not shy quiet. Me,
Speaker 2: I'm spreading my legs for everybody. I'm like, what's up?
Speaker 2: Who you want to talk to you? Let's go here,
Speaker 2: let's go there. So I think that I thought she was, like,
Speaker 2: you know, weird, and she thought I was weird. We
Speaker 2: didn't understand one another, and then when we started to
Speaker 2: work together, our differences ended up, you know, working in
Speaker 2: our favor. It made the conversations on the podcast more dynamic,
Speaker 2: and we just very naturally became so close through work.
Speaker 2: But also we were talking all the time, you know.
Speaker 1: So wait, when you're when you're putting on an episode,
Speaker 1: how much of it have you talked about before? Zero zero?
Speaker 1: Literally zero zero.
Speaker 2: Every single episode is completely off the cuff.
Speaker 1: Everything about it.
Speaker 2: We have like five topics that we need to hit
Speaker 2: every day, whatever the news of the day is, but
Speaker 2: everything else is completely off the cuff, like we've never
Speaker 2: once had a converse. And sometimes we used to sit
Speaker 2: on FaceTime for like an hour before we would start
Speaker 2: recording to get set up. We would just end up talking.
Speaker 2: And we actually felt like it was ruining that the show.
Speaker 2: She calls me a ten thirty, we start recording a
Speaker 2: ten thirty one, like we do not because we don't
Speaker 2: want to waste any of the it's we will never
Speaker 2: recreate a conversation that's so fake, like we just go
Speaker 2: for it.
Speaker 1: That's amazing. So that way, you're really catching up in
Speaker 1: that time too, exactly, you're avoiding talking the night before exactly,
Speaker 1: you're saying what you did.
Speaker 2: She lives in a different state, so we have a
Speaker 2: lot to catch up on.
Speaker 1: How when did she move? And that when did you
Speaker 1: guys she moved?
Speaker 2: I think twenty twenty one. And I was like, okay,
Speaker 2: it's the end of the show, Like, well, we'll do
Speaker 2: remote but who the hell wants listened to remote podcasters?
Speaker 2: Like it's so covidy and it sucks. And I knew
Speaker 2: that it was the beginning of the end, and I
Speaker 2: was freaking a little bit. And let me tell you,
Speaker 2: it's the best thing to ever happen to us. One,
Speaker 2: because of COVID, we were forced to really invest in
Speaker 2: the tech, so there's actually no delay, there's no lag.
Speaker 2: A lot of people don't know that we live in
Speaker 2: separate states, so I think a lot of times people
Speaker 2: are shocked to find out that Jackie doesn't live in
Speaker 2: New York anymore, which makes me so happy. And Two,
Speaker 2: a little bit of the distance physically has benefited us
Speaker 2: greatly because we're no longer on top of each other
Speaker 2: and we get to, like you say, have these natural
Speaker 2: catch up conversations that we might not be having if
Speaker 2: she lived down the block for me, which she did
Speaker 2: for many years. So it's actually been the best thing
Speaker 2: to happen to the show. And I thought it was
Speaker 2: going to be like the beginning of the end.
Speaker 1: What makes you feel like when you've recorded a great episode?
Speaker 2: How do you know, Oh my god, when we just
Speaker 2: a laugh laugh, laugh, laugh, laugh, Like sometimes we are
Speaker 2: just so silly that I don't even think we're speaking
Speaker 2: English anymore. Like it's just that sisterly thing where you
Speaker 2: can really only act so nuts with your sister. Those
Speaker 2: are the best episodes, like true belly laughs.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And that is something you can only do with
Speaker 1: someone you know very exactly, very well exactly, and do
Speaker 1: you guys call it so there afterwards and like, oh
Speaker 1: my god, you are so funny.
Speaker 2: That's a good question. Now, actually it's so routine to us. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's kind of sad. We should be like listen, that
Speaker 2: was so funny. Now we don't do that, but.
Speaker 1: It kind of protects why that hour is so good. Yes, right,
Speaker 1: like that's the.
Speaker 2: Point and we're not trying so hard, like we're just talking.
Speaker 1: That's it's such a special skill. It's actually such a
Speaker 1: special talent.
Speaker 2: I agree that podcasting is a skill and it's a
Speaker 2: talent because I think every I mean, the running joke
Speaker 2: is like, you know, everybody has a podcast. Not everybody should,
Speaker 2: but there are a lot of failed podcasts, and I
Speaker 2: think that a lot of people think like, yeah, I
Speaker 2: could talk for an hour a week. I actually don't
Speaker 2: think you could. It is an art, especially with a
Speaker 2: co host, especially as an interviewer, when to talk, when
Speaker 2: to listen, when to stop, and so a lot of
Speaker 2: people don't possess that skill. And I appreciate you saying
Speaker 2: that because it's definitely a skill the same way like
Speaker 2: you know, any other job is a skill. Like if
Speaker 2: you're a mathematician, you know you need a certain set
Speaker 2: of skills, and podcasting definitely requires that too.
Speaker 1: Yeah. No, I just like to point it out because
Speaker 1: I think we just it is that I have so
Speaker 1: many friends who just like I remember when when I
Speaker 1: first started creating content, and my friends like, oh, we
Speaker 1: can do that, and then it was like this whole
Speaker 1: journey where everyone realizes that it's different. And I think
Speaker 1: with you, because it's so natural and because it's so
Speaker 1: off the cough, it can often be you can kind
Speaker 1: of be like, oh, yeah, well that's whatever, but it's
Speaker 1: like no, no, no, there's there's a real time, there's
Speaker 1: a skill there. How much have you practiced over the
Speaker 1: years or was this who you were at school with
Speaker 1: your friends? Like is this just who you've been? Where
Speaker 1: was the training, where were the reps?
Speaker 2: It's this is always who I've been, like very like
Speaker 2: leading with like, I've always loved attention, I've always loved
Speaker 2: to talk. I've always loved to make people laugh. But
Speaker 2: I do think that I have practiced and rehearsed a
Speaker 2: little bit in recent years. Just knowing when to listen.
Speaker 2: That's always been my that's the biggest critique people have
Speaker 2: of me on the show, and they're totally valid in
Speaker 2: that I never let my sister talk. I talk over people.
Speaker 2: I'm sure I've done it to you. I'm so sorry,
Speaker 2: like and I'm really trying. It's one of my worst
Speaker 2: skills personally and professionally. I do it at a dinner party.
Speaker 2: It's so annoying and like when other people do and
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh my gosh, she didn't shut up, and
Speaker 2: people are like, bitch, that's you. So I am working
Speaker 2: on that. I used to be much worse. So it's
Speaker 2: a work in progress. But it's important to know, like
Speaker 2: your skills, but it's also important to know what you're
Speaker 2: not good at. And I know that I'm not good
Speaker 2: at knowing when it's my time to listen, Like.
Speaker 1: Right now, have you ever measured how fast you talk?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 2: But I know it's insane. And if you see that insane.
Speaker 2: I used to talk so.
Speaker 1: Much that it's funny because me and you, I'm at
Speaker 1: the opposite end, like I usually talk so slowly.
Speaker 2: Are you're very measured?
Speaker 1: Yeah? I knownice. It's so funny because when we're together,
Speaker 1: I'm just like, I'm speeding up slightly just to yeah,
Speaker 1: I need you.
Speaker 2: To listen to episodes of The Toast from like twenty nineteen.
Speaker 2: I used to swallow full paragraphs like I don't even
Speaker 2: know what I was saying. You think it's fast now
Speaker 2: to me, this is me being so much better.
Speaker 1: It's amazing.
Speaker 2: It used to be really bad.
Speaker 1: It's amazing. Have you you talked about their like wanting attention,
Speaker 1: and I think anyone is doing something publicly naturally there
Speaker 1: is a part of them that enjoys the attention, enjoys.
Speaker 1: I always say, like, I love when people come up
Speaker 1: to me on the street and say hello. I tell
Speaker 1: people in the podcast to say, hey, if you see me,
Speaker 1: come and say hello, I want to say hello to you.
Speaker 1: I really appreciate the feedback and the energy I get.
Speaker 1: I had a I was walking a few years ago,
Speaker 1: now quite a while ago with one of my clients
Speaker 1: who's a well known actor. He gets recognized a hundred
Speaker 1: times for every one time I get recognized, so super
Speaker 1: well known and successful, and like he'd get stopped. I'd
Speaker 1: get stopped once, He'd get stopped multiple times. I'd get
Speaker 1: stopped once, And I asked him, like, how does that
Speaker 1: feel and he said, you know what, he goes, Jay,
Speaker 1: You're really lucky and I was like why and he said,
Speaker 1: you're lucky because people stop me for who I pretend
Speaker 1: to be, and people stop you for who you are.
Speaker 1: And I was like wow, Like that really stayed. It
Speaker 1: really stayed with me. Is one of those It was no,
Speaker 1: I can't but it was not enough fun. But that's
Speaker 1: my private part.
Speaker 2: You'll tell me afterpated.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but that was one of my favorite moments. It
Speaker 1: stayed with me ever since that. I'm like, wait a
Speaker 1: minute and saying with you like people when they're coming
Speaker 1: up to you and saying the toast is amazing, or
Speaker 1: when I keep hearing Jay, we heard you on the toast.
Speaker 1: It was so fun. You know, when I get that
Speaker 1: feedback from people, I'm thinking, oh, wow, like you're doing that.
Speaker 1: How have you been careful about your relationship with attention
Speaker 1: so that it doesn't get unhealthy? How have you thought
Speaker 1: about that?
Speaker 2: You know what's so funny. The more attention you get,
Speaker 2: the less you want it. And so I think as
Speaker 2: somebody who was an attention whrror seeing I was an
Speaker 2: attention segin whore growing up my whole life to end
Speaker 2: up in a line of work where you get a
Speaker 2: lot of it. It's fulfilling for a second, and then
Speaker 2: it's like enough, and I actually feel like I am
Speaker 2: an attention or I'm actually really not so much anymore.
Speaker 2: I like I got the attention that I wanted and
Speaker 2: it felt good, but it didn't solve all my problems
Speaker 2: like I thought it was going to. So not that
Speaker 2: anybody who's, you know, is an attention seeker should get
Speaker 2: the attention because then it'll it's kind of a problem
Speaker 2: that fixes itself. But I'm really not. I think when
Speaker 2: people meet me, like on the street, sometimes they're a
Speaker 2: little uh taken aback. How Actually I'm not like a
Speaker 2: dancing monkey, like I'm not so crazy all the time,
Speaker 2: like making jokes something like I actually and definitely as
Speaker 2: I've gotten older, like a little bit more pulled back.
Speaker 2: You know, I'm still a little nuts more than the
Speaker 2: average person. But not, I think as much as people
Speaker 2: would expect.
Speaker 1: What part of your confidence are you still working on?
Speaker 2: I'm really not, honestly, Like I feel very confident in
Speaker 2: all aspects of my life. Like I know that I'm
Speaker 2: great at my job. I know I'm a great wife,
Speaker 2: I know I'm literally gorgeous, Like, I don't feel like
Speaker 2: I'm lacking confidence in any area honestly.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: I have a lot of other problems though, but not that, like,
Speaker 2: oh girl, what I again? Okay, what what I say?
Speaker 2: Is my biggest problem? I actually would say my biggest
Speaker 2: problem is sometimes my humor can be mean, and I
Speaker 2: think that's like the worst type of humor. And I'm
Speaker 2: actually really working on it. Like when you poke fun
Speaker 2: at someone, sometimes I feel like I really take it
Speaker 2: too far, Like it's okay to like think something and
Speaker 2: not say it, because I've noticed that a lot that
Speaker 2: I sometimes border on mean, and I don't like being mean.
Speaker 2: That's not funny to me. I think some people feel
Speaker 2: like they have to be mean in order to be funny,
Speaker 2: and that's not true. I can be funny without being mean.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's something you're working on, yes, Like, sometimes.
Speaker 2: I'll say something, I'll be like, damn, that was rough,
Speaker 2: you know, like, and so I'm aware of it and
Speaker 2: I'm really trying to stop. Yeah, if I will, at
Speaker 2: least I'm aware of it.
Speaker 1: You love the percent evil it's fun yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's uh no that that's so beautiful to hear, I
Speaker 1: mean to hear you say, hey, you know what I'm
Speaker 1: like too, really confident. I love hearing that. I love
Speaker 1: it when someone says that because.
Speaker 2: It's a journey.
Speaker 1: Yeah no, but I mean you've not that you've arrived,
Speaker 1: because there is no arrival, but the idea that you
Speaker 1: feel that way.
Speaker 2: I mean that doesn't mean that like I don't see
Speaker 2: a picture of myself and like literally want to die.
Speaker 2: But I don't try not to place too much value
Speaker 2: on that because there are other parts of me that
Speaker 2: are worthy, probably more worthy than how I look. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but I am a shallow person. I do place a
Speaker 2: lot of emphasis and value on my physical appearance.
Speaker 1: Yeah, is that something you've ever tried to change your
Speaker 1: shift or you've just accepted it.
Speaker 2: It's actually like a new thing. I think since losing weight,
Speaker 2: I've kind of become obsessed with it. And that's like
Speaker 2: one thing that I've gained during my weight loss journey
Speaker 2: that I don't like, the obsession with how I look,
Speaker 2: because before, like I knew and it looked great, so
Speaker 2: like whatever, you know, I worked on other things. But
Speaker 2: then I started to really like the way that I
Speaker 2: looked on the ozembic journey, and I kind of became
Speaker 2: obsessed with it. Like I used to weigh myself and
Speaker 2: be like, oh, I mean it's not great, but whatever.
Speaker 2: Then I would lose weight. And when I would weigh
Speaker 2: myself and it wasn't exactly what I wanted, I would
Speaker 2: be so hard on myself and I used to not
Speaker 2: care about that. So that's actually something I'm working on,
Speaker 2: but with a pregnancy, like it's a problem for later may.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Of course I can't thix everything a lot once.
Speaker 2: I'm not shating, no, no, no.
Speaker 1: Trust me, I can't either that. No, But it's interesting
Speaker 1: how sometimes the things we work on more become our
Speaker 1: greatest stresses.
Speaker 2: Yes, that's definitely how I feel with my weight.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's one of those things that it's But
Speaker 1: the great thing is you're aware, and I think that's
Speaker 1: what I always think about. I remember when Kevin Hart
Speaker 1: came on the podcast, he was talking about how in
Speaker 1: a very different context, but he was talking about how
Speaker 1: like some of the mistakes he made and not comparing
Speaker 1: at all, but he was talking about some of the
Speaker 1: mistakes he made, and they came from a place of
Speaker 1: him feeling like this was never going to go away.
Speaker 1: And then he was like, now I need to deal
Speaker 1: with the fact that one day I may not be
Speaker 1: as famous or successful as whatever. And it was just
Speaker 1: really interesting him saying that when I still think he's
Speaker 1: crushing it and killing it and he's like, you.
Speaker 2: Know, and how we perceive people versus how they perceive
Speaker 2: themselves are so interesting.
Speaker 1: Correct, Yeah, And that's what I find is always fascinating,
Speaker 1: because you think someone's peaking, yeah, and in their head
Speaker 1: they're like, oh, I'm insignificant right now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, But it does not that you want people to
Speaker 2: feel poorly about themselves, but seeing someone whom you perceive
Speaker 2: to be on top of the world talk about how
Speaker 2: they perceive themselves and it's not necessarily like the best.
Speaker 2: There is like solace in that. Like even people who
Speaker 2: are killing it and rich and famous, like even they
Speaker 2: hate themselves, So who cares if I do? Yeah, you know, I.
Speaker 1: Wanted to end with talking about you know, you talked
Speaker 1: a lot about last year losing your dog, which I
Speaker 1: think no one prepares you for. Yeah. I had so
Speaker 1: many friends who sadly went through the same thing in
Speaker 1: the last twelve months. I don't know what it was
Speaker 1: about the last twelve months and maybe it's sadly always
Speaker 1: the case, but at least in my life, I had
Speaker 1: so many people telling me that I had my business manager,
Speaker 1: a really close friend, like just so many people in life.
Speaker 1: We had Taylor Hill who came on the podcast and
Speaker 1: talked about the loss of her dog Tait and just
Speaker 1: how hard that was for her. What has been your
Speaker 1: greatest lesson for grief in that journey?
Speaker 2: So funny because you know, I lost my dad when
Speaker 2: I was in the eighth grade or excuse me, the
Speaker 2: ninth grade, like literally the first month of high school,
Speaker 2: worst time ever, and it was extremely hard, and I
Speaker 2: actually feel like being younger, I was able to bounce
Speaker 2: back a little bit more. I remember going through that,
Speaker 2: and really I had just transferred schools and then my
Speaker 2: dad passed, and I really didn't want to be known
Speaker 2: as like the girl with the dead dad. So I
Speaker 2: remember making an active effort to get back to my life,
Speaker 2: and I leaned so heavily into my sisters. And that's
Speaker 2: really why my sisters and I are so close, and
Speaker 2: my friends and extra school and I really and that's
Speaker 2: just being a kid, right, You're more susceptible, you're more adaptable,
Speaker 2: like you just bounce back. And I've found like when
Speaker 2: you know friends of mine now are losing parents, like
Speaker 2: it's so much harder. Like you're an adult, you understand
Speaker 2: the importance of life, You have kids of your own,
Speaker 2: and so not that it's the same at all, but
Speaker 2: like losing my dog at twenty nine was like the
Speaker 2: first experience with grief as an adult, and let me
Speaker 2: tell you, it is so much harder. And this was,
Speaker 2: you know, a dog, not a human being. The difference
Speaker 2: was and I've long wondered my dad passed away overnight,
Speaker 2: like he was not sick. He had a heart attack
Speaker 2: and he died before he even got to the hospital,
Speaker 2: like completely kind of freak accident. And always talk about
Speaker 2: like is it better, you know, for someone to die
Speaker 2: like that, or to get a chance to say goodbye
Speaker 2: to somebody who has like a terminal illness, But we
Speaker 2: have to watch them suffer for months, And I feel
Speaker 2: like there's no right answer. Just everybody thinks their own
Speaker 2: and I never really knew what the answer was. But
Speaker 2: with THEO, he had terminal cancer and we ended up
Speaker 2: putting him down, but so we lived with the cancer,
Speaker 2: I want to say, for like two or three weeks,
Speaker 2: like really not a long time. It was the worst
Speaker 2: time of my life, Like it was worse than when
Speaker 2: he actually had died. Like seeing something you someone you
Speaker 2: love so much being such pain, it's not worth being
Speaker 2: able to say goodbye, honestly. So oddly that experience brought
Speaker 2: me peace with my dad, Like I like, yeah, I
Speaker 2: didn't get to say goodbye, but like I didn't have
Speaker 2: to watch him suffer, Like that's it's definitely worse. And
Speaker 2: so the older I get, the actually the harder grief is.
Speaker 2: You know, Like I remember getting married and being like
Speaker 2: so angry that my dad wasn't going to be there
Speaker 2: and feeling like this was so unfair. But I hadn't
Speaker 2: really felt that anger up until that point. Like the
Speaker 2: older you get, the more important life moments, marriage, kids,
Speaker 2: you realize like how much you need a parent, And
Speaker 2: so as a kid, like, yeah, okay, he's not in
Speaker 2: my soccer game, but like you just are. You're more
Speaker 2: resilient as a kid, you really are. And so going
Speaker 2: through grief as an adult is forty five times harder.
Speaker 2: And that was just with my dog, you know, whom
Speaker 2: I loved more than anything. But a dog is not
Speaker 2: a person. And it was the most challenging thing. I
Speaker 2: actually don't even remember it. I blacked out that part
Speaker 2: of my life. It's coming up on a year actually,
Speaker 2: like this week. It was the hardest thing I've ever
Speaker 2: been through in my life. Like seriously, I like, I
Speaker 2: can't believe. I don't even think about that time because
Speaker 2: it was so it was traumatizing.
Speaker 1: That's so profound though the connection between the two.
Speaker 2: I know, well it was. They were so polar opposite.
Speaker 2: It's like what I've I think I actually would have
Speaker 2: preferred just like to take THEO to the doctor and
Speaker 2: have him die, like the three weeks of diapers of
Speaker 2: medic Oh my god. It was horrible, and I felt
Speaker 2: like I was doing the wrong thing because you know,
Speaker 2: it's cruel to keep a dog like that alive for
Speaker 2: your own they're so clearly in pain, it's the right
Speaker 2: thing to do to put them down, and if you're
Speaker 2: selfishly keeping them, And I said, I'm not going to
Speaker 2: do that. And so when we woke up one morning
Speaker 2: it was so clear that he was suffering, we were like, listen,
Speaker 2: this is cruel. We're keeping him alive for us, Like
Speaker 2: we knew we had to do that, and with my dad,
Speaker 2: like I had always felt like, oh my god, I
Speaker 2: never got to say goodbye. It was, you know, high
Speaker 2: one day by the next. But what THEO, the passing
Speaker 2: of THEO really taught me is like, honestly, it's better
Speaker 2: it is.
Speaker 1: I think, what did girl with the dead dad like
Speaker 1: mean to you? Like? What did that kind of like
Speaker 1: what did that symbolize for you that you didn't want
Speaker 1: to be? You know?
Speaker 2: I just remember in middle school there was a girl
Speaker 2: whose dad had died and her she was in my grade,
Speaker 2: and then her brother was in my sister's grade, and
Speaker 2: it was just kind of like the thing people said,
Speaker 2: do you know what I mean? No, not pointing, but
Speaker 2: like if you overheard like another parent talking, oh didn't
Speaker 2: did you hear? It was just kind of what you know,
Speaker 2: they were led with. And I didn't want that. I
Speaker 2: wanted to be a girl who was funny, a girl
Speaker 2: who was good at soccer, a girl who was beautiful,
Speaker 2: like literally anything. I did not want to have that
Speaker 2: to be the thing like, oh did you hear about
Speaker 2: that Austray girl her father died? Like I didn't want
Speaker 2: that to be the first thing people said about me.
Speaker 2: So I remember making a conscious effort to just like
Speaker 2: bounce back, and it did work for for in a
Speaker 2: period of time.
Speaker 1: I can't imagine how challenging it is to you know,
Speaker 1: be going be giving birth, having lost and then let.
Speaker 2: Me tell you, it sucks. Like and I see Ben
Speaker 2: who has both parents, I'm so happy for him, but
Speaker 2: I'm jealous naturally. Yeah, I don't think that's bad.
Speaker 1: No, no, of course not.
Speaker 2: And they're the best Ben's parents, Like his dad is
Speaker 2: like always inviting me on Father's Day, but you know,
Speaker 2: a parent as.
Speaker 1: A parent, Yeah, for sure. Thank you for sharing, thank you,
Speaker 1: thank you for being open. And it's I'm hoping that, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm hoping that people who have been through similar things
Speaker 1: or you know, I know plenty of people in my
Speaker 1: life who lost a parent early. And it's it's something
Speaker 1: that's not talked about enough online, Like you don't you
Speaker 1: don't really hear about it. Yeah, it's kind of like
Speaker 1: something you talk about in therapy and nowhere else.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just like hard to talk about. Nobody wants
Speaker 2: to be crying all the time. And I think that
Speaker 2: no matter what stage of your grief that you're at,
Speaker 2: like you can't talk about it without crying. That doesn't
Speaker 2: mean that you're not healed. It's just sad, like it's
Speaker 2: and I don't want to be sad, Like that's my
Speaker 2: whole thing. Like I love being happy. I love making
Speaker 2: people laugh. I love laughing, Like if I'm laughing, I'm
Speaker 2: so happy. So I hate like sit around. And that's why,
Speaker 2: Like I know when I talk about this on the podcast,
Speaker 2: people don't like it. But I don't do therapy, not
Speaker 2: for any reason. I'm not like against it. I know
Speaker 2: it's really powerful for a lot of people. But I've
Speaker 2: never really had a hard time communicating. And I'm very
Speaker 2: blessed that, Like I have a lot of people in
Speaker 2: my life who I feel completely open and comfortable opening
Speaker 2: up to, and I know that's a privilege that not
Speaker 2: a lot of people have. But I also like, I
Speaker 2: don't know, I just don't want to spend my life
Speaker 2: being sad, Like the world is sad enough, Like I
Speaker 2: wake up every day with the goal of like making
Speaker 2: people laugh, like I like to be joyous and spread joy.
Speaker 2: And I don't know, sitting in the therapists office for
Speaker 2: an hour a week like crying like oh my god,
Speaker 2: like seriously, I can't.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, no, And I think that everyone has their
Speaker 1: different coping mechanisms, like you said, and for some people
Speaker 1: that is the only place they have to say space
Speaker 1: and a space where they don't feel judged, in a
Speaker 1: space where they don't feel, you know, look down a
Speaker 1: certain way because their family friends may be that way.
Speaker 1: And it's beautiful that you don't have that. I was
Speaker 1: gonna ask you, what's been your Have you thought a
Speaker 1: lot about like your energy, baby's energy, Like what like
Speaker 1: walk me through that.
Speaker 2: Yes, I have a lot because you know, people tell
Speaker 2: me that I'm kind of like a baby whisper because
Speaker 2: I love to sing and I love to dance and
Speaker 2: I love to like I'm obsessed with babies and that's
Speaker 2: what babies love, and that's what babies need, like their
Speaker 2: first couple of months, always looking for somebody to sing
Speaker 2: and dance to them. And so that's the type of
Speaker 2: mom I want to be, like super joyous, super like
Speaker 2: always singing. I don't know if you follow jesse j
Speaker 2: the singer on Instagram. Okay, so she had a baby
Speaker 2: and like she's always singing to her baby on Instagram.
Speaker 2: Now I know she has like one of the best
Speaker 2: voices in the world. And I don't. But like, I'm
Speaker 2: gonna be Jesse j Like I'm gonna be singing to
Speaker 2: my baby, and my baby's gonna think I have the
Speaker 2: most amazing voice because my baby's gonna be my number
Speaker 2: one fan.
Speaker 1: It's gonna be so funny if they don't, Oh my.
Speaker 2: God, stopp so upset, like every time I saying the
Speaker 2: baby cries.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well they love it till they're like four.
Speaker 2: Oh of course, no, I'm talking about here.
Speaker 1: One yeah, yeah, one, you know, one one fan for
Speaker 1: one year is good enough. I love that. I love that.
Speaker 1: And have you thought about whether you're going to be
Speaker 1: sharing baby journey online?
Speaker 2: And I have thought about it. I definitely want to
Speaker 2: share my journey. I'm pretty against, you know, putting your
Speaker 2: kids on social media. I don't judge other people who do,
Speaker 2: but I'm not going to. And I feel like I
Speaker 2: see a trend of people sharing less and actually pulling
Speaker 2: their kids off social media because the dangers of it
Speaker 2: are like so obvious.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know that's something. I mean, rather they talk
Speaker 1: about lot like it's it.
Speaker 2: I would love to.
Speaker 1: It's one of our discussion.
Speaker 2: But the internet wasn't such a disgusting place. I would
Speaker 2: love to like have fun, but no, we can't have
Speaker 2: nice things. People are disgusting and absolutely not.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's challenging, it's it's such a Yeah, that's that's
Speaker 1: the hard part, right, that's the hard part. That it's
Speaker 1: like in the same way as you wouldn't just put
Speaker 1: your kid up somewhere physically in that way that they're
Speaker 1: exposed to anyone and everyone.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it just actually passed that law in California
Speaker 2: about like family channels, and Damilvado was a big part
Speaker 2: of it of like just child's actors, but also child
Speaker 2: like family channels, like basically explaining your kids on social
Speaker 2: media for money. They're all still actively happening, but I
Speaker 2: feel like in ten fifteen years, like we are going
Speaker 2: to be hearing like the most craziest stories about kids
Speaker 2: who were forced to be on like YouTube family channels.
Speaker 2: It's disgraceful, but it's also slippery slope. Like you know,
Speaker 2: like you start posting your kids and that's the most
Speaker 2: engaging content, so you post more and more and more,
Speaker 2: and then you rely on it to pay your bills.
Speaker 2: So you're yelling at your kids to smile for the thumbnail.
Speaker 2: And I never want I never want to be that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's great that you guys have sat because.
Speaker 2: The actually haven't even talked to Bean about it. But
Speaker 2: I don't care what he says, Like I love them.
Speaker 2: I'm sure he'll agree with me. Yeah, but we haven't
Speaker 2: had like a full conversation about it.
Speaker 1: Okay, good to know. Good tonight he'll be hearing.
Speaker 2: About this on the Jay Shatty podcast.
Speaker 1: Is this usually how it goes? No?
Speaker 2: Actually, certain things I feel really strongly about and I
Speaker 2: say Ben, like, this is what we're doing. Certain things
Speaker 2: he feels super strongly about. I'm like, Okay, sometimes we
Speaker 2: both don't know how to feel. And there are people
Speaker 2: in our life whose opinions we like respect, and we'll
Speaker 2: call them and ask and get their opinions. That will
Speaker 2: come to a decision together. It just depends on what
Speaker 2: the topic is, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that makes a lessonse. Yeah, if you
Speaker 1: feel strongly enough, it's a rule.
Speaker 2: And yeah, and if you don't need to know, like
Speaker 2: as a half of a part, like a half of
Speaker 2: a marriage, like if there are certain things you don't
Speaker 2: have like strong feelings about what your partner does, like,
Speaker 2: so let them have that one and then when you
Speaker 2: have strong feelings about something and they don't, they will
Speaker 2: let you have it. Like that's the whole you know,
Speaker 2: stick with compromise, but also knowing when you don't know,
Speaker 2: like some all of this is new to me, motherhood, pregnancy,
Speaker 2: and so knowing that I have no experience and talking
Speaker 2: to people who do and if I trust them and
Speaker 2: I think that like their values aligned with mind taking
Speaker 2: their advice, but like it's important to know, like when
Speaker 2: you don't know enough.
Speaker 1: Claudia, you you're one of the most fascinating people I
Speaker 1: ever met. You are hilarious, yes, profound today at times.
Speaker 2: I really don't want to cry. It is what it is.
Speaker 1: No, I appreciate you being so honest and vulnerable with
Speaker 1: us and showing that soft side. Yeah, you know, I
Speaker 1: like for people to be able.
Speaker 2: To see you keep it turning in a box like
Speaker 2: she is going to surprise you.
Speaker 1: I love it. Well, Clodia, it's been such a joy
Speaker 1: talking to you. We end every episode with a final
Speaker 1: five Okay, these have to be answered in one word
Speaker 1: to one sentence game, not a Clodia sentence.
Speaker 2: Okay, I promise I will do one word yes, yeah, one.
Speaker 1: Word of one sentence. Oh okay, but not a sentence
Speaker 1: seventy nine walls not JA calling me out? Okay, all right, okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: and I'm not judging you no first time. Okay. So
Speaker 1: question number one, what is the best advice you've ever
Speaker 1: heard or received?
Speaker 2: This isn't like, you know, a curated sentence, so I'm
Speaker 2: just going to like speak, And I think it's something
Speaker 2: I've realized as I've gotten older, especially as like a
Speaker 2: woman in the industry, you feel really competitive with like
Speaker 2: other people, I feel now like I like to work
Speaker 2: to live and not live to work, like I just
Speaker 2: would like to make a living. I don't need to
Speaker 2: be the biggest podcast or don't mean the number one
Speaker 2: selling comedian. I just would like to provide for my family.
Speaker 2: I think when you get really caught up in like
Speaker 2: the hustle culture, it's good to have ambition, of course,
Speaker 2: but what you sue be important to me is actually
Speaker 2: really not important to me anymore now, Like just a
Speaker 2: job is a job. It's to provide and that's it.
Speaker 1: Great sentence.
Speaker 2: Thanks, Oh god, I forgot about the sentence. Okay, sorry,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna no.
Speaker 1: No no, as well explained I would have asked you
Speaker 1: to explain Question number two, what is the worst advice
Speaker 1: you've ever heard or received?
Speaker 2: Oh my god, there is a okay, sorry, it's gonna
Speaker 2: be more than one. Seven. There is a phrase that
Speaker 2: I hate. It's called like being realistic is the quickest
Speaker 2: path to mediocrity. Like I so disagree with that. I
Speaker 2: think being realistic is so important, like so important.
Speaker 1: Yeah, good answer. Question number three? What excites you most
Speaker 1: about motherhood?
Speaker 2: I'm such an affectionate person, Like I love all my
Speaker 2: nieces and nephews who are growing older now they're like
Speaker 2: starting to hate it, but like I cover them and kisses,
Speaker 2: Like I just says with kisses and hugs, and like
Speaker 2: this baby like is gonna but this movie's gonna love
Speaker 2: me more than anyone. It probably end up liking Ben more.
Speaker 2: But this maybe like is mine, you know, And I
Speaker 2: could kiss it as much as I want.
Speaker 1: I love it. A question number before, what are you
Speaker 1: most excited to see about Ben becoming a dad? Oh?
Speaker 2: My god, Like, I just know Ben is going to
Speaker 2: be the best, the best, like most affectionate. The kids
Speaker 2: are gonna love him. They're gonna like him so much more.
Speaker 2: They're gonna go to him I'm like, I don't know
Speaker 2: what exactly I'm most looking forward to, but I feel
Speaker 2: a lot of peace and knowing that I'm bringing a
Speaker 2: baby into the world with like someone who's seriously going
Speaker 2: to be the best out on the Ponet.
Speaker 1: Fifth and final question, we asked this to every guest
Speaker 1: who's ever been on the show. If you could create
Speaker 1: one law that everyone in the world had to follow,
Speaker 1: what would it be.
Speaker 2: It should be absolute law that everybody listens to the
Speaker 2: Toast every second morning. And then yeah, of course, of course, yes,
Speaker 2: actually no, this is my answer, not a purpose, sorry, just.
Speaker 1: The tost Oh thanks, all right, Florida.
Speaker 2: No, it should be law like it should be an
Speaker 2: NPR should be public radio.
Speaker 1: I love it. Yeah, that's a great love. Thanks, I
Speaker 1: love it.
Speaker 2: Thanks, and then I ultimately you know that affects my
Speaker 2: bottom line.
Speaker 1: Clorodia, thank you so much, me too, Thank you. If
Speaker 1: you love this episode, you will also love my interview
Speaker 1: with Kendall Jenna on setting boundaries to increase happiness and healing.
Speaker 3: You're in a child You could be reading something that
Speaker 3: someone is saying about you and being like that is
Speaker 3: so unfair because that's not who I am and that
Speaker 3: really gets to me sometimes, But then looking at myself
Speaker 3: in the mirror and being like, but I know who
Speaker 3: I am. Why does anything else matter