1 00:00:09,760 --> 00:00:13,040 Speaker 1: Welcome back, everyone to another episode of Wide Open with 2 00:00:13,160 --> 00:00:17,479 Speaker 1: Ashlyn Harris. I am so excited to introduce our guests today. 3 00:00:17,800 --> 00:00:19,800 Speaker 2: Lauren Chan, welcome to the show. 4 00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:22,880 Speaker 3: Thank you so much for having me. I'm about to 5 00:00:22,920 --> 00:00:26,759 Speaker 3: be wide open. I never thought I'd get to say 6 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:27,680 Speaker 3: that to you, but here we are. 7 00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:29,360 Speaker 2: Here we are baby. The words is going. 8 00:00:29,680 --> 00:00:32,720 Speaker 1: And for those of you who don't know Lauren, she's 9 00:00:32,760 --> 00:00:37,360 Speaker 1: not only an entrepreneur, but she is an unbelievable model. 10 00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:41,919 Speaker 1: And you fight for so much like inclusion in fashion, 11 00:00:41,960 --> 00:00:46,080 Speaker 1: which I just love women who are pushing the boundaries 12 00:00:46,120 --> 00:00:49,960 Speaker 1: of being the first. And I'm so grateful for the 13 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:51,040 Speaker 1: work that you're doing. 14 00:00:51,360 --> 00:00:54,160 Speaker 2: And you're the first. 15 00:00:55,120 --> 00:01:01,080 Speaker 1: Solo cover queer LGBTQ plus women on the freaking cover 16 00:01:01,160 --> 00:01:02,560 Speaker 1: of Sports Illustrated. 17 00:01:03,280 --> 00:01:08,279 Speaker 3: Like why I am the first solo lesbian on the cover? Okay, 18 00:01:08,360 --> 00:01:10,280 Speaker 3: I do have to clear up some lesbian drama I 19 00:01:10,319 --> 00:01:10,919 Speaker 3: kind of started. 20 00:01:11,319 --> 00:01:13,959 Speaker 2: Oh no, okay, tell me everything because I don't know this. 21 00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:16,960 Speaker 3: Some of the press said that I was the first 22 00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:19,520 Speaker 3: lesbian on the cover of Sports illus Traded Swimsuit issue, 23 00:01:19,880 --> 00:01:24,319 Speaker 3: which is amazing. It's close. But Megan Rappino and Sue 24 00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:27,280 Speaker 3: Bird were part of the twenty seven person Legends cover 25 00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:30,120 Speaker 3: in twenty twenty four, so they were the first lesbians 26 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:32,440 Speaker 3: on the cover of the Sports Tales Traded Swimsuit issue. 27 00:01:32,560 --> 00:01:35,160 Speaker 3: I'm so happy to follow in their footsteps and be 28 00:01:35,200 --> 00:01:37,040 Speaker 3: the first solo solo. 29 00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:40,400 Speaker 2: Well you get to just add in the bitch it's 30 00:01:40,400 --> 00:01:44,920 Speaker 2: only me part no, Megan Sue. I did not no 31 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:45,720 Speaker 2: no no, no no no. 32 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:48,840 Speaker 1: I said that they're like my best friends. They know, 33 00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:50,840 Speaker 1: but I'm saying solow cover. 34 00:01:51,520 --> 00:01:52,600 Speaker 2: But what you. 35 00:01:52,480 --> 00:01:58,360 Speaker 1: Represented and that was so groundbreaking, and I imagine it 36 00:01:58,520 --> 00:02:02,520 Speaker 1: changed your life quite because it went everywhere, Lauren, like 37 00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:06,000 Speaker 1: everyone was talking about it, so I would think it 38 00:02:06,040 --> 00:02:07,000 Speaker 1: was a positive thing. 39 00:02:07,080 --> 00:02:10,240 Speaker 2: But I also don't read all the comments. 40 00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:12,160 Speaker 3: I wish I didn't read all the comments. I need 41 00:02:12,200 --> 00:02:14,240 Speaker 3: to learn a lesson from you. I'm a little bit 42 00:02:14,240 --> 00:02:17,320 Speaker 3: new to this, but I think that my life really 43 00:02:17,440 --> 00:02:20,200 Speaker 3: changed when I became a rookie in twenty twenty three, 44 00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:23,440 Speaker 3: which is one of their regular models. Because when I 45 00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:25,800 Speaker 3: did that, I also came out publicly. I wrote an 46 00:02:25,919 --> 00:02:30,640 Speaker 3: essay for Sports Illustrated, and I mean talk about a 47 00:02:30,639 --> 00:02:34,360 Speaker 3: life change. I had systems crumbling that were personal, identity, 48 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:40,360 Speaker 3: relationship or public figure. Dum whatever you want to, you know, 49 00:02:40,560 --> 00:02:43,120 Speaker 3: suggest it probably changed in my life. And then I 50 00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:45,280 Speaker 3: think in the past two years, what's really happened is 51 00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:49,720 Speaker 3: I've come into myself. I know myself more. I can 52 00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:53,760 Speaker 3: stand Tanto's down on what I'm saying a little harder, 53 00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:56,040 Speaker 3: and I think that this is the perfect time to 54 00:02:56,320 --> 00:02:58,840 Speaker 3: have gotten the opportunity to have, like you're saying, the 55 00:02:58,880 --> 00:03:03,440 Speaker 3: bigger platform of the cover. It also goes hand in 56 00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:06,519 Speaker 3: hand with you, knows as I'm sure you experienced too, 57 00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:11,400 Speaker 3: these these internet keyboard warrior trolls, whatever you want to 58 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:14,280 Speaker 3: call them. I actually was able to write an essay 59 00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:17,800 Speaker 3: for the issue this year because one of those trolls 60 00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:21,680 Speaker 3: really got my goat because they commented on one of 61 00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:26,160 Speaker 3: my swimsuit pictures and said, this makes zero sense. Who 62 00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:28,920 Speaker 3: are we even doing this for anymore women? And he 63 00:03:29,160 --> 00:03:35,240 Speaker 3: was genuinely befuddled that Sports Illustrated Swimsuit was not just 64 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:39,320 Speaker 3: objectifying women for the male gaze. And so, like I said, 65 00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:41,360 Speaker 3: I've learned to kind of speak my mind over the 66 00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:44,400 Speaker 3: past few years, and I went in pretty hard on him, 67 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:48,080 Speaker 3: which turned into an essay and the cover. So I 68 00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:50,840 Speaker 3: like to I like to make an example of a troll. 69 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:54,080 Speaker 3: I like to fight back. You know, I'm really confident 70 00:03:54,120 --> 00:03:56,640 Speaker 3: in who I am and if it behooves me and 71 00:03:56,720 --> 00:03:59,960 Speaker 3: the community that you know, season cells represented in me, 72 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:01,840 Speaker 3: I am always going to eat up a man on 73 00:04:01,880 --> 00:04:02,400 Speaker 3: the internet. 74 00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:04,000 Speaker 2: Oh, I live for that. 75 00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:06,640 Speaker 1: I wonder because what a lot of people don't know 76 00:04:06,680 --> 00:04:10,720 Speaker 1: about you is you grew up playing sports in Canada, 77 00:04:10,880 --> 00:04:17,280 Speaker 1: and like, as a retired professional athlete, there's so much 78 00:04:17,400 --> 00:04:20,640 Speaker 1: that sport taught me in terms of how I show 79 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:24,120 Speaker 1: up in a world that feels pretty fucking cruel. I'll 80 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:27,359 Speaker 1: be honest, Like it's hard out there now, and I 81 00:04:27,480 --> 00:04:32,479 Speaker 1: wonder if being raised and playing sports and playing basketball 82 00:04:32,520 --> 00:04:37,240 Speaker 1: and really being coachable and working hard, and people have 83 00:04:37,279 --> 00:04:41,960 Speaker 1: a lot of opinions like did you bring that into 84 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:43,000 Speaker 1: the picture. 85 00:04:44,240 --> 00:04:47,839 Speaker 2: To really just like own who you are? 86 00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:50,159 Speaker 3: Well, first of all, it's like such an honor to 87 00:04:50,320 --> 00:04:53,920 Speaker 3: have you call that out in me, because I mean, 88 00:04:54,080 --> 00:04:58,200 Speaker 3: talk about a goat. I think that what we learn 89 00:04:58,240 --> 00:05:01,960 Speaker 3: in sports becomes part of personality. You know, it's not 90 00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:03,880 Speaker 3: even like I call in it, And I'm sure the 91 00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:06,200 Speaker 3: same way, it's not like you have to like bring 92 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:08,280 Speaker 3: that side out of you. It's who you are in 93 00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:13,960 Speaker 3: so many ways, it's teamwork, it's coachability, it's it's greater good. 94 00:05:14,080 --> 00:05:17,200 Speaker 3: It's getting up when you lose, it's working your ass 95 00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:19,920 Speaker 3: off when no one's watching. It's all of the things 96 00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:23,839 Speaker 3: that make an athlete a great athlete, that make me, 97 00:05:25,480 --> 00:05:30,240 Speaker 3: I hope, a good leader and representative and person. 98 00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:34,880 Speaker 1: Really yeah, I mean it's and there's something and I'm 99 00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:38,080 Speaker 1: sure you know this, which if people don't know this, 100 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:42,120 Speaker 1: one in every two young girls are dropping out of 101 00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:47,320 Speaker 1: sports by the age of fourteen because of body confidence issues, 102 00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:51,240 Speaker 1: And like, that's a really troublesome number for me. 103 00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:53,520 Speaker 2: One in every two young girls. 104 00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:58,800 Speaker 1: Like sport gave me so much purpose and strength and 105 00:05:59,320 --> 00:06:03,600 Speaker 1: belonging and I could express myself in a way that 106 00:06:03,680 --> 00:06:08,679 Speaker 1: felt really important to my development. And to think now 107 00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:13,000 Speaker 1: that one in every two little girls are just being like, 108 00:06:13,480 --> 00:06:17,080 Speaker 1: my body's changing and I can't do this, and I 109 00:06:17,080 --> 00:06:20,240 Speaker 1: don't feel comfortable going to swim class and putting a 110 00:06:20,279 --> 00:06:23,400 Speaker 1: bathing suit on, and oh my god, I'm running, and 111 00:06:23,520 --> 00:06:26,280 Speaker 1: I'm hitting puberty, and my breasts are getting bigger and 112 00:06:26,320 --> 00:06:30,440 Speaker 1: I'm self conscious. Like all of these things are really 113 00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:34,880 Speaker 1: happening in real time, and the media has an obligation 114 00:06:35,080 --> 00:06:37,600 Speaker 1: to do something about it, because what we show them 115 00:06:37,640 --> 00:06:43,200 Speaker 1: in terms of beauty really affects whether they continue to 116 00:06:43,279 --> 00:06:46,520 Speaker 1: show up and play these sports. And I think you 117 00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:51,239 Speaker 1: and Alona are really doing such a brave thing that's 118 00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:54,640 Speaker 1: saying like, we're okay, Like my body is beautiful and 119 00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:57,280 Speaker 1: it looks like this, and it serves an insane reason 120 00:06:57,360 --> 00:06:58,000 Speaker 1: and purpose. 121 00:06:58,440 --> 00:07:00,680 Speaker 2: And I don't feel bad about it either, should you. 122 00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:03,520 Speaker 3: I think that in my former life as a fashion 123 00:07:03,640 --> 00:07:06,760 Speaker 3: editor and then plus size business founder, I really was 124 00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:09,880 Speaker 3: focused on that with regard to the workplace, and so 125 00:07:10,160 --> 00:07:12,640 Speaker 3: it makes sense that you're focused on it via sports. 126 00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:16,040 Speaker 3: I was, you know, in the corporate publishing world, and 127 00:07:16,080 --> 00:07:18,520 Speaker 3: so I was thinking about it in the workplace, and 128 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:22,840 Speaker 3: there it holds up promotions, pay it makes the gap worse, 129 00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:25,680 Speaker 3: especially when you compound that with the fact that people 130 00:07:25,720 --> 00:07:29,280 Speaker 3: who are not white generally have larger bodies, et cetera, 131 00:07:29,320 --> 00:07:31,680 Speaker 3: et cetera. And I think the point perhaps of that 132 00:07:31,880 --> 00:07:34,560 Speaker 3: is that no matter which part of a woman's life 133 00:07:34,600 --> 00:07:38,840 Speaker 3: you look at, if we subscribe to this bullshit beauty 134 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:41,440 Speaker 3: ideal and let it stop us from doing what we 135 00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:44,440 Speaker 3: want to do or what we can achieve, then we're 136 00:07:44,440 --> 00:07:49,000 Speaker 3: doing ourselves a huge disservice, and we're buying it the 137 00:07:49,160 --> 00:07:51,720 Speaker 3: system that was made up to keep us down. And 138 00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:54,440 Speaker 3: so I always try to use my voice to say, oh, 139 00:07:54,920 --> 00:07:58,680 Speaker 3: stop it. That is fake. It's made up. It's literally 140 00:07:58,960 --> 00:08:01,240 Speaker 3: put there so that you cannot have the life that 141 00:08:01,280 --> 00:08:04,640 Speaker 3: you want. And I don't any woman should believe in that, 142 00:08:04,720 --> 00:08:07,200 Speaker 3: no matter how old they are or what it is 143 00:08:07,240 --> 00:08:08,440 Speaker 3: that they're trying to do. 144 00:08:08,920 --> 00:08:11,480 Speaker 2: I remember feeling so much shame. 145 00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:12,360 Speaker 3: You know. 146 00:08:12,400 --> 00:08:14,560 Speaker 2: I played for the US team and every. 147 00:08:14,480 --> 00:08:19,960 Speaker 1: Inch, every small percentage mattered to be great. And I 148 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:24,800 Speaker 1: just remember doing all the body composition tests and I 149 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:28,160 Speaker 1: would always like read into my BMIs and I would 150 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:30,400 Speaker 1: like look and I'd be like, fuck, I just don't 151 00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:34,160 Speaker 1: look like a lot of like a Tobin Heath or 152 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:38,560 Speaker 1: you know, a Megan Rapino, and it's like it's it's 153 00:08:38,720 --> 00:08:42,319 Speaker 1: really hard. It was like the worst part of everything 154 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:45,680 Speaker 1: for me is that yearly test where we would get 155 00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:47,240 Speaker 1: our body. 156 00:08:46,840 --> 00:08:49,200 Speaker 2: Like and everything was scanned, and I was like, fuck, 157 00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:49,960 Speaker 2: here we go again. 158 00:08:50,040 --> 00:08:53,200 Speaker 1: It would really pick me apart for like a while, 159 00:08:53,320 --> 00:08:55,160 Speaker 1: and I was obsessive about it. 160 00:08:55,240 --> 00:08:59,240 Speaker 3: The theme is vulnerability, and so to have me sitting 161 00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:02,880 Speaker 3: here and when listening, sitting here and hearing Ashlyn Harris 162 00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:05,760 Speaker 3: say that, yeah, this got to me. I'm a fucking 163 00:09:06,440 --> 00:09:11,760 Speaker 3: champion of everything you can win and this gets me down, 164 00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:15,680 Speaker 3: makes it relatable. It makes everybody, from somebody like me 165 00:09:15,679 --> 00:09:19,240 Speaker 3: who doesn't never play professional sports, to a young preteen 166 00:09:19,360 --> 00:09:23,320 Speaker 3: girl to maybe people who don't even have anything to 167 00:09:23,320 --> 00:09:25,839 Speaker 3: do with sports, be able to hear that vulnerability and 168 00:09:26,280 --> 00:09:28,880 Speaker 3: still push through in their lives and lead with that. 169 00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:31,960 Speaker 3: And that's what I try to do with my representation 170 00:09:32,040 --> 00:09:35,000 Speaker 3: with my physical body and my physical being as a 171 00:09:35,040 --> 00:09:38,640 Speaker 3: model is always say hey, this is what's real, this 172 00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:40,880 Speaker 3: is what I'm really feeling, this is how I really am, 173 00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:45,040 Speaker 3: And if you don't like it, there's the door. There's 174 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:50,960 Speaker 3: a literal door, you know. I always want to be 175 00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:56,360 Speaker 3: creating community and being in space and having conversations around 176 00:09:56,640 --> 00:10:01,359 Speaker 3: that kind of subject around vulnerability and reality and progress 177 00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:05,520 Speaker 3: and breaking down the beauty ideal and having women feel 178 00:10:05,920 --> 00:10:08,280 Speaker 3: more powerful than the world wants them to. 179 00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:12,720 Speaker 1: I'm really curious of where this pivot came in terms 180 00:10:12,760 --> 00:10:17,360 Speaker 1: of you know, you played sports, you played basketball. I 181 00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:21,880 Speaker 1: read that you had a really bad medical incident where 182 00:10:21,920 --> 00:10:25,080 Speaker 1: you were in the hospital for a month, and you 183 00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:27,440 Speaker 1: did you have to put sports behind you, and that 184 00:10:27,640 --> 00:10:30,280 Speaker 1: started the fashion and modeling, like, tell. 185 00:10:30,120 --> 00:10:31,280 Speaker 2: Me what happened. 186 00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:35,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, So I played basketball my whole life. Twist, being 187 00:10:35,160 --> 00:10:37,240 Speaker 3: really good at basketball makes you a really good lesbian. 188 00:10:41,559 --> 00:10:46,080 Speaker 3: I mean, the evidence is there, it's there, it's there, 189 00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:50,720 Speaker 3: it's there. And I went to I was playing on 190 00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:54,200 Speaker 3: a scholarship at my university in Canada, and then after 191 00:10:54,280 --> 00:10:58,000 Speaker 3: my first year, my appendix ruptured and because they kind 192 00:10:58,000 --> 00:10:59,640 Speaker 3: of didn't know what was going on, the surgery was 193 00:11:00,760 --> 00:11:06,720 Speaker 3: I mean like really invasive emergency, not laparoscopic or cleanly done, 194 00:11:06,720 --> 00:11:10,000 Speaker 3: and so I think at my lung had collapsed, they 195 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:14,280 Speaker 3: cut through my bowels. My blood was septic, so there 196 00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:15,840 Speaker 3: was a lot of stuff that had gone wrong, and 197 00:11:16,880 --> 00:11:20,120 Speaker 3: the recovery was a long time, and beyond being in 198 00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:23,400 Speaker 3: the hospital, the physical recovery was at least half a 199 00:11:23,480 --> 00:11:26,320 Speaker 3: year after that, and I just never went back. And 200 00:11:26,360 --> 00:11:29,280 Speaker 3: so that's when I started writing and pursuing other interests. 201 00:11:30,080 --> 00:11:34,920 Speaker 3: I will say I felt allowed to pursue other interests 202 00:11:34,920 --> 00:11:38,480 Speaker 3: because basketball was quote unquote taken away from me. I 203 00:11:38,520 --> 00:11:40,680 Speaker 3: wonder what you're like, But for me and for a 204 00:11:40,679 --> 00:11:44,080 Speaker 3: lot of like the athletes that I was around at 205 00:11:44,080 --> 00:11:45,839 Speaker 3: the time, we could kind of do anything we were 206 00:11:45,880 --> 00:11:48,640 Speaker 3: told to until the end of the earth. And so 207 00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:50,520 Speaker 3: I don't know whether I would have quit. I have, 208 00:11:50,880 --> 00:11:54,079 Speaker 3: you know, teammates from my Ontario team and state teams 209 00:11:54,240 --> 00:11:56,880 Speaker 3: and whatever that have gone to the WNBA, and so 210 00:11:57,160 --> 00:11:58,840 Speaker 3: maybe I would have tried to do that and just 211 00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:00,760 Speaker 3: never never done anything else. 212 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:04,640 Speaker 1: It's true when they say one door closes, another door opens. 213 00:12:04,960 --> 00:12:09,840 Speaker 3: Most people who aren't you know, top tier athletes in 214 00:12:09,880 --> 00:12:12,280 Speaker 3: the world fall off a cliff when it comes to 215 00:12:12,320 --> 00:12:15,600 Speaker 3: sports after high school or college, like me, and you 216 00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:19,400 Speaker 3: have you go from having this place to be physically 217 00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:23,120 Speaker 3: competitive and in a team and working with authority and 218 00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:28,800 Speaker 3: battling and pushing your body who like, going into a 219 00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:36,000 Speaker 3: corporate job, and it's a hard transition. I mean, to me, 220 00:12:36,360 --> 00:12:39,280 Speaker 3: the former sounds like so much better of a life 221 00:12:39,400 --> 00:12:42,520 Speaker 3: experience to be having. And so I think that I 222 00:12:42,559 --> 00:12:45,720 Speaker 3: took a lot of that personality and brought it to 223 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:50,120 Speaker 3: my job at the time in publishing. And I always, 224 00:12:50,880 --> 00:12:52,679 Speaker 3: you know, love to be a leader and do things 225 00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:56,640 Speaker 3: differently and make a difference, help the team, and and 226 00:12:56,720 --> 00:13:00,199 Speaker 3: so perhaps you know, I mean, you're really make me 227 00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:02,960 Speaker 3: think perhaps it was a lot of that in my 228 00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:06,400 Speaker 3: personality that helped me be different and be okay with 229 00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:09,720 Speaker 3: going against the grain and publishing. I will say I 230 00:13:09,720 --> 00:13:13,000 Speaker 3: had the most amazing team at Glamour, and so I 231 00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:15,680 Speaker 3: was really enabled to speak to the every woman. I 232 00:13:15,679 --> 00:13:18,360 Speaker 3: think at the time Glamour reached one in eight American women, 233 00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:23,800 Speaker 3: And it gave me the platform to be that real 234 00:13:24,760 --> 00:13:30,080 Speaker 3: communicator and be vulnerable and connect community around specifically plus 235 00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:32,520 Speaker 3: sized fashion there and so yeah, I'm so grateful for 236 00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:35,120 Speaker 3: my time there. It taught me. It taught me so much, 237 00:13:35,559 --> 00:13:40,560 Speaker 3: namely that leading with vulnerability is actually a great career move. 238 00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:46,319 Speaker 4: This is wide open, and I'm your host, Ashlyn Harris. 239 00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:47,320 Speaker 2: We'll be right back. 240 00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:04,480 Speaker 1: In sport, you're so often taught to like do what's 241 00:14:04,520 --> 00:14:07,160 Speaker 1: best for the team, and you have this tunnel vision 242 00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:11,400 Speaker 1: and it doesn't allow you to expand and take risk 243 00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:15,200 Speaker 1: in a way because everything is so structured. Right, It's like, 244 00:14:15,760 --> 00:14:17,840 Speaker 1: this is the game plan and this is what you're doing, 245 00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:20,680 Speaker 1: and these are your teammates and every week your role 246 00:14:20,760 --> 00:14:25,160 Speaker 1: might change. And now that I don't have to fall 247 00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:30,360 Speaker 1: in line and order, it's such a beautiful process of 248 00:14:30,480 --> 00:14:35,440 Speaker 1: letting go where that's so interesting and I do think 249 00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:37,880 Speaker 1: it's such a beautiful thing. And I got that way 250 00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:41,280 Speaker 1: later in life. And it's like you like you almost 251 00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:44,360 Speaker 1: are in this blurred vision and you shake and everything 252 00:14:44,440 --> 00:14:45,520 Speaker 1: becomes so clear. 253 00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:48,600 Speaker 3: You need a new job as a therapist. 254 00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:55,560 Speaker 1: Well I know, but like we've both been through it, right, 255 00:14:55,680 --> 00:15:01,560 Speaker 1: We went through divorce and we've gone through such heartache. 256 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:05,200 Speaker 2: And I'm curious, like, how did you come to know? 257 00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:07,760 Speaker 2: How did you like go on this. 258 00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:12,320 Speaker 1: Exploration of like who you really are and finding out 259 00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:15,640 Speaker 1: your sexuality because it was later in life, and I 260 00:15:15,680 --> 00:15:18,640 Speaker 1: talked to Sophia all the time about this and it's like, wow, 261 00:15:18,680 --> 00:15:21,680 Speaker 1: there was so many signs, but it was almost like 262 00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:24,280 Speaker 1: I don't know if I had this space and bravery 263 00:15:24,920 --> 00:15:26,760 Speaker 1: to just like follow. 264 00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:29,640 Speaker 2: My gut and my intuition. And I'm curious. You know, 265 00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:32,080 Speaker 2: I've been kind of gay all my life. 266 00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:36,960 Speaker 1: I just I don't know what it's like to change 267 00:15:36,960 --> 00:15:40,200 Speaker 1: that later in life, and I'm curious of how that 268 00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:43,280 Speaker 1: becoming happened with you. 269 00:15:46,160 --> 00:15:49,280 Speaker 3: You're gonna make me cry. I think Sophia and I 270 00:15:49,280 --> 00:15:52,000 Speaker 3: should talk about this. I would I mean talk about crying. 271 00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:57,360 Speaker 3: It would be so cathartic. Yeah, but I think that 272 00:15:57,680 --> 00:16:01,680 Speaker 3: I could have gone my whole life doing what I 273 00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:04,120 Speaker 3: was supposed to do because I'm good at it, like 274 00:16:04,160 --> 00:16:06,880 Speaker 3: I'm good at what. It's like a snaking eat stale. 275 00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:08,480 Speaker 3: I kind of only do things that I know i'll 276 00:16:08,520 --> 00:16:10,320 Speaker 3: be good at. But then I'm really good at the 277 00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:12,360 Speaker 3: things that I do, and I just keep doing that 278 00:16:12,520 --> 00:16:16,840 Speaker 3: because it's checking the boxes. Yep. Dream job by then, married, 279 00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:19,040 Speaker 3: by then, started a company, by then, sold a company 280 00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:25,120 Speaker 3: by then, And I probably would have kept doing that 281 00:16:25,360 --> 00:16:28,080 Speaker 3: because I thought I was getting enough out of it 282 00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:32,400 Speaker 3: for me. And then COVID hit and everything that I 283 00:16:32,520 --> 00:16:39,200 Speaker 3: oriented my life around got taken away. And so once 284 00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:41,280 Speaker 3: I kind of saved my business, that took about a 285 00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:43,600 Speaker 3: year to just I mean, I remember applying for furlough 286 00:16:43,640 --> 00:16:46,960 Speaker 3: and all this stuff anyhow not to go back there. 287 00:16:47,240 --> 00:16:52,440 Speaker 3: PTSD was, But after that there was not much going on. 288 00:16:52,640 --> 00:16:54,640 Speaker 3: I couldn't go to an office, I couldn't go to events, 289 00:16:54,680 --> 00:16:57,880 Speaker 3: I couldn't start a community thing. I you know, was 290 00:16:57,920 --> 00:17:00,360 Speaker 3: at home by myself, and I really dove into things therapy, 291 00:17:01,520 --> 00:17:05,879 Speaker 3: and I think that's where I really learned that the 292 00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:08,920 Speaker 3: systems you believe in and subscribe to are made up. 293 00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:11,480 Speaker 3: And I don't mean to say that in like a 294 00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:16,200 Speaker 3: funny way or a dramatic way they are And in 295 00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:18,639 Speaker 3: the past two years, queer people have really taught me 296 00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:21,399 Speaker 3: that you can choose how you want your life to 297 00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:26,800 Speaker 3: look full stop. And I also think I realized that 298 00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:32,400 Speaker 3: I never ever learned how to know myself. I never 299 00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:35,840 Speaker 3: slowed down, I never sat with my thoughts. I never 300 00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:39,800 Speaker 3: considered what my life would look like if no one 301 00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:45,119 Speaker 3: else ever told me to do anything. And then I 302 00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:48,040 Speaker 3: was on Women Loving Women TikTok, and it was like 303 00:17:48,119 --> 00:17:50,080 Speaker 3: a bitch, you're gay, and I would be like ah 304 00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:51,879 Speaker 3: and scirl and I'd be like, nope, you're going to 305 00:17:51,960 --> 00:17:55,640 Speaker 3: watch this, and I just it was a slow burn. 306 00:17:55,720 --> 00:17:58,240 Speaker 3: It took at least a year to come out to 307 00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:02,160 Speaker 3: myself and my partner at the time, my ex husband, 308 00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:07,560 Speaker 3: and then another year to kind of really be well, 309 00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:09,600 Speaker 3: I guess what I present to the world now. And 310 00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:13,159 Speaker 3: so yeah, I was thirty two, went through divorce. It 311 00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:17,159 Speaker 3: was so sad and so hard. Yeah, I believe a 312 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:19,679 Speaker 3: lot in speaking about it, because I don't believe in 313 00:18:19,720 --> 00:18:24,320 Speaker 3: the stigma of divorce again, think that, you know, forcing 314 00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:27,720 Speaker 3: women to be stuck in marriages and not choose themselves 315 00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:30,119 Speaker 3: whether they have children or not. Perhaps especially if they 316 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:34,359 Speaker 3: do in order to set a good example. I just 317 00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:38,640 Speaker 3: don't believe in sticking to those those old tropes. I mean, 318 00:18:38,680 --> 00:18:42,119 Speaker 3: it's archatic at this point. And everybody I know that 319 00:18:42,280 --> 00:18:46,520 Speaker 3: is divorced is happier, healthier, chose something for themselves, you know, 320 00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:49,199 Speaker 3: built a life that they built from a time in 321 00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:51,760 Speaker 3: their life when they knew themselves better, had more money, 322 00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:54,200 Speaker 3: had more success, and access, was feeling less of a 323 00:18:54,280 --> 00:18:55,240 Speaker 3: void what have you. 324 00:18:55,520 --> 00:18:58,200 Speaker 1: It's beautiful, though, and you can see it, like you're 325 00:18:58,280 --> 00:19:02,320 Speaker 1: so radiant, and you know, I've seen pictures of you 326 00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:07,040 Speaker 1: and your partner, and it's just you move differently when 327 00:19:07,080 --> 00:19:10,560 Speaker 1: you choose yourself, when you choose joy, and you are 328 00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:14,280 Speaker 1: brave enough to say the hard things. It's like it's 329 00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:18,000 Speaker 1: really liberating, and you can see it, and I think 330 00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:20,480 Speaker 1: it's really beautiful. I haven't met your partner, but I've 331 00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:23,240 Speaker 1: heard nothing but fantastic things. 332 00:19:23,359 --> 00:19:24,800 Speaker 3: Really, And. 333 00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:31,240 Speaker 1: Was this your first like experience with women? Oh my god, 334 00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:34,600 Speaker 1: I'm obsessed. You and Sophia really need to like hang 335 00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:37,359 Speaker 1: out and say all of the things. 336 00:19:37,359 --> 00:19:40,280 Speaker 3: I know I well, I had mentioned to you. I 337 00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:42,280 Speaker 3: saw her a few times during Pride, and one of 338 00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:44,439 Speaker 3: the things was her dinner, and so everyone was kind of, 339 00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:47,120 Speaker 3: you know, having a moment with her. But at the bar, 340 00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:48,840 Speaker 3: I was like, our stories are really similar, and I 341 00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:50,440 Speaker 3: just want to say thank you for putting it out 342 00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:53,399 Speaker 3: there because it really helps. It really really helps to 343 00:19:53,440 --> 00:19:57,639 Speaker 3: know that you're not alone. But yeah, Haley's the best. 344 00:19:57,720 --> 00:20:00,200 Speaker 3: I mean, she was the self that soothed every thing 345 00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:05,600 Speaker 3: about starting over. She brings like joy and hilarity and 346 00:20:05,760 --> 00:20:09,280 Speaker 3: love and connection to every single moment of every single day. 347 00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:13,359 Speaker 3: And I often sit around and think like, Wow, this 348 00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:17,479 Speaker 3: was really hard fought, but it was worth every every second. 349 00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:20,520 Speaker 3: And now I take the little things for granted and 350 00:20:20,560 --> 00:20:21,960 Speaker 3: I'll have to go wow, I used to not be 351 00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:23,960 Speaker 3: able to. This is so silly. But I have a 352 00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:25,800 Speaker 3: hat with a pin that says mean dyke on it, 353 00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:29,400 Speaker 3: and I remember I love it so much. I wear 354 00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:30,800 Speaker 3: I wear it out, I wear it to the park, 355 00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:36,160 Speaker 3: I wear it wherever. And I remember being so trapped 356 00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:40,200 Speaker 3: by not even being able to identify in any small 357 00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:43,879 Speaker 3: way as queer because I make it's safeer appropriate, or 358 00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:46,280 Speaker 3: the thing to do, or if I would hurt somebody, 359 00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:49,720 Speaker 3: and something as little as buying that pin and wearing 360 00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:52,679 Speaker 3: it is like it glazes right over me. But wow, 361 00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:53,760 Speaker 3: what a difference. 362 00:20:54,119 --> 00:20:56,200 Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, I love this. I like it was 363 00:20:56,240 --> 00:20:59,960 Speaker 2: so funny that I'll get you one, please please. It's 364 00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:01,960 Speaker 2: I was saying this to Sophie we had. 365 00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:04,920 Speaker 1: We had dinner with a bunch of her friends last night, 366 00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:09,159 Speaker 1: and everyone we do like at our dinners, we always 367 00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:12,399 Speaker 1: like to like say words of affirmation and well wishous 368 00:21:12,440 --> 00:21:15,280 Speaker 1: to people, And I just like to sit at the 369 00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:20,640 Speaker 1: table and hear everyone speak about her joy and her 370 00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:25,400 Speaker 1: light and how it's changed and how making like hard 371 00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:31,200 Speaker 1: book brave decisions, Like she's a totally different human and 372 00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:36,119 Speaker 1: I think it's so profound and so special to really 373 00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:38,480 Speaker 1: find your person later in life. 374 00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:40,760 Speaker 3: I know her step really and you step really. I've 375 00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:43,680 Speaker 3: never seen you together, but I mean, what a matchmate 376 00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:44,160 Speaker 3: in heaven. 377 00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:44,760 Speaker 2: Thank you. 378 00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:49,439 Speaker 3: It's so y'all seem so yeah, joyful and resistant and 379 00:21:49,600 --> 00:22:00,439 Speaker 3: deep and exemplary and open and really like inspiring in anyway. 380 00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:04,120 Speaker 3: Is not just because you're you know, an actress and 381 00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:09,280 Speaker 3: a soccer star. Because of who you are and that 382 00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:12,399 Speaker 3: I feel like is leading with lately and it's just 383 00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:14,080 Speaker 3: so so so nice. 384 00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:17,960 Speaker 1: Witness, thank you, You're so so sweet. But I will 385 00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:20,200 Speaker 1: say this because I struggled with this. You think I've 386 00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:22,400 Speaker 1: been out for a long time. I actually didn't come 387 00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:27,560 Speaker 1: out till twenty nineteen because I was I've been you know, 388 00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:31,359 Speaker 1: like doing this for a while, but I was so 389 00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:36,760 Speaker 1: scared to lose sponsors. I was scared to lose my job. 390 00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:39,760 Speaker 1: I was scared. I was just so scared that it 391 00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:44,600 Speaker 1: would be distracting to the team and to the fans 392 00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:46,119 Speaker 1: and all these things. 393 00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:49,639 Speaker 3: You know, you had said playing sports was about falling 394 00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:51,119 Speaker 3: in line in the team and not being able to 395 00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:52,840 Speaker 3: do what you wanted. And now you feel brave, and 396 00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:55,880 Speaker 3: so that makes that connection makes sense to me. Did 397 00:22:55,920 --> 00:22:58,280 Speaker 3: you how do you feel on the how did you 398 00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:02,439 Speaker 3: feel immediately on the other side, I really helped, totally real. 399 00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:08,520 Speaker 1: Everyone was so kind, the sponsors were so nice. I 400 00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:14,000 Speaker 1: didn't lose anything. I actually just gained like a lot 401 00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:17,440 Speaker 1: in myself. The courage of walking around and holding hands 402 00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:21,480 Speaker 1: and doing all these things like that was really important too, 403 00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:25,720 Speaker 1: because I, you know, there it was so conflicting as 404 00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:30,119 Speaker 1: someone who's so outspoken about mental health and you know, 405 00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:32,960 Speaker 1: showing up exactly who you are. But like part of me, 406 00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:36,560 Speaker 1: like half of half of myself, was missing. But I 407 00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:40,679 Speaker 1: am curious when you finally wrote what you wrote to 408 00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:44,640 Speaker 1: come out and sports illustrated, how how did people receive 409 00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:45,480 Speaker 1: that from you? 410 00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:48,720 Speaker 3: I feel the same way. I feel like if I 411 00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:52,159 Speaker 3: lost anything, I maybe don't really know about it, like 412 00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:54,560 Speaker 3: perhaps there was some work thing on the table that 413 00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:58,920 Speaker 3: didn't come to fruition. I lost followers that I never 414 00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:03,639 Speaker 3: even knew were there. But everything that I gained I 415 00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:07,360 Speaker 3: would pay my everything I have for. But I think 416 00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:09,719 Speaker 3: for people like us who were talking about it, I mean, 417 00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:12,680 Speaker 3: in the context of your initial question, which is sponsorship, 418 00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:17,360 Speaker 3: that's a question of alignment and leading with who you are, 419 00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:21,359 Speaker 3: whether that's queer, whether that's just showing your personality. Like 420 00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:23,280 Speaker 3: I'm trying to be all myself and talk my shit 421 00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:25,560 Speaker 3: and be funny on the Internet. And if I lose 422 00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:28,680 Speaker 3: some from you know, brands and that I work with 423 00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:31,400 Speaker 3: because of that, then I'll get new ones that better 424 00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:33,639 Speaker 3: aligned with me. And I think that there are so 425 00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:37,400 Speaker 3: many amazing folks on the Internet, specifically queer creators who 426 00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:42,000 Speaker 3: have like helped teach me that, and so no, I 427 00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:44,199 Speaker 3: think that everything that we gain will be more aligned 428 00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:47,439 Speaker 3: and even if it's like perhaps less, it's better. 429 00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:51,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, that part. That's an important piece. 430 00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:56,800 Speaker 1: And I like, I always ask this question, what was 431 00:24:56,840 --> 00:25:01,320 Speaker 1: the moment that split you wide open, that like changed 432 00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:05,920 Speaker 1: it all for you, whether it was personal or professional. 433 00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:09,000 Speaker 2: That really like that was it. 434 00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:13,680 Speaker 1: That's one thing I can clock that shifted the perspective 435 00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:15,480 Speaker 1: of everything. 436 00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:20,119 Speaker 3: Okay, I'm going to try not to make a joke here, please, 437 00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:27,560 Speaker 3: but no, I mean, well, I think it was. I 438 00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:31,240 Speaker 3: think it was going to therapy. And I that was 439 00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:33,840 Speaker 3: a slow answer because it was a decision that I 440 00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:39,719 Speaker 3: made years prior to realizing that I was gay and 441 00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:42,120 Speaker 3: being able to come out and deal with that in therapy. 442 00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:46,959 Speaker 3: But I had started, you know, years before with regard 443 00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:48,720 Speaker 3: to owning a business and how to deal with that, 444 00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:52,679 Speaker 3: and so I think that decision is really the one 445 00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:58,560 Speaker 3: that opened myself up to myself and then stot me 446 00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:02,200 Speaker 3: wide open to the world. Yeah, yeah, it was. And 447 00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:03,800 Speaker 3: I think that's a good lesson for me to even 448 00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:06,280 Speaker 3: hear myself say, because it's not always the immediate thing. 449 00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:08,520 Speaker 3: It's not always like that single game that you're going 450 00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:10,760 Speaker 3: to win you need the championship, or you know, it's 451 00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:15,040 Speaker 3: not always that relationship or brand deal or whatever it 452 00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:17,040 Speaker 3: is that's in front of you that is going to 453 00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:21,720 Speaker 3: be the one that is the most pivotal. And so yeah, 454 00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:23,520 Speaker 3: I mean, if I really have to think about it, 455 00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:24,960 Speaker 3: what's yours? What's your answer to that? 456 00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:31,439 Speaker 1: Clearly one was personally was my divorce and how I 457 00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:35,240 Speaker 1: really had to isolate and do a lot of work 458 00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:38,840 Speaker 1: to figure out who I was going to be more 459 00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:42,760 Speaker 1: moving forward, what I wanted. And I think it just 460 00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:45,399 Speaker 1: blew the fucking doors open to say, Okay, like you 461 00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:48,240 Speaker 1: need to sit by yourself and figure out who you. 462 00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:51,240 Speaker 2: Are, what you want and where you want to go. 463 00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:54,400 Speaker 1: And then I would say the second part that really 464 00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:59,320 Speaker 1: changed my life and my career. I was like thirteen, 465 00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:05,040 Speaker 1: thirteen years old, and I had made this the national 466 00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:10,080 Speaker 1: team player pool camp and we used to train in 467 00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:14,520 Speaker 1: San Diego at the Olympic Training Center, and I remember 468 00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:19,720 Speaker 1: walking in and there was a US Anti doping book 469 00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:27,160 Speaker 1: on my on my chair and like, I'm not gonna lie, 470 00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:29,639 Speaker 1: Like I started doing drugs at a very young age, 471 00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:33,080 Speaker 1: not that they were performance enhancing drugs, but they were. 472 00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:36,000 Speaker 1: I was smoking weed and anything I could find I 473 00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:41,560 Speaker 1: just was numbing out. And I remember opening that book 474 00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:47,159 Speaker 1: and reading what they would test for, and sport was 475 00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:49,040 Speaker 1: supposed to be my way out for a better life. 476 00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:53,800 Speaker 1: And I remember just sitting there so fucking scared that 477 00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:57,200 Speaker 1: I just blew it before it started. And I had 478 00:27:57,240 --> 00:28:02,800 Speaker 1: a choice in that moment to fuck around with really 479 00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:05,560 Speaker 1: bad people that were only going to make me worse 480 00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:08,720 Speaker 1: and steal my light and my dreams. 481 00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:12,680 Speaker 2: And I was like, what am I doing? 482 00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:18,320 Speaker 1: Like I really need to reflect and figure out, like 483 00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:20,400 Speaker 1: is this worth it? 484 00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:23,320 Speaker 2: And I made the decision and that was it. There 485 00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:24,560 Speaker 2: was no turning back. 486 00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:29,960 Speaker 1: And I realize, like who I hang out with matters, 487 00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:32,000 Speaker 1: and I don't have to be a product of my 488 00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:35,600 Speaker 1: environment and I could want more. I started focusing. I 489 00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:39,760 Speaker 1: wasn't going to parties. Like it really shifted everything for me. 490 00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:44,840 Speaker 1: So that was that was like the start of really 491 00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:50,920 Speaker 1: pursuing like my hopes and dreams and it really changed. 492 00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:55,240 Speaker 3: My life well, and realizing your own power to shape 493 00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:58,400 Speaker 3: and change your life. Right at thirteen, to know that 494 00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:02,840 Speaker 3: is oh that's early, Yeah, that's early. 495 00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:06,560 Speaker 1: It's insane, And yeah I sure did. Fifteen, I played 496 00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:09,720 Speaker 1: in my first Youth World Cup and played with the 497 00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:13,600 Speaker 1: national team, committed, you know, verbally committed at fourteen to 498 00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:15,440 Speaker 1: the University of North Carolina, Like. 499 00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:20,200 Speaker 2: It just I was on this pursuit of excellence and 500 00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:23,280 Speaker 2: nothing was going to get in my way. Yeah, it's 501 00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:24,840 Speaker 2: pretty powerful at that age. 502 00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:28,440 Speaker 3: That's so powerful, and I feel like I, you know, 503 00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:31,760 Speaker 3: am similar in that. Something that I've learned in my 504 00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:34,440 Speaker 3: thirties now I'm in my mid thirties is that it's 505 00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:43,120 Speaker 3: also perfectly fine, but helpful to lose some of that 506 00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:47,959 Speaker 3: if it no longer serves you. It's helpful to, you know, 507 00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:50,800 Speaker 3: not play anymore and do things for you. It's helpful 508 00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:54,640 Speaker 3: to be able to go through a divorce, to be 509 00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:57,320 Speaker 3: able to change your move a city, whatever it is 510 00:29:57,320 --> 00:29:59,680 Speaker 3: that you want to do. I feel like, you know, 511 00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:05,760 Speaker 3: I constantly kind of hear myself saying to myself that 512 00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:08,280 Speaker 3: it's okay if it doesn't serve you anymore. That behavior 513 00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:11,479 Speaker 3: that have it, that belief system that's not for this 514 00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:13,560 Speaker 3: version of you, that's not for this time and space. 515 00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:19,640 Speaker 4: This is wide open, and I'm your host, Ashlyn Harris. 516 00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:20,680 Speaker 2: We'll be right back. 517 00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:34,960 Speaker 1: So much of your life's work has said I am 518 00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:38,360 Speaker 1: built this way, and I am beautiful, and I don't 519 00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:42,040 Speaker 1: fit the standards that used to be that we've tried 520 00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:43,040 Speaker 1: so hard. 521 00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:43,800 Speaker 2: To be inclusive. 522 00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:48,240 Speaker 1: I don't want to speak for you, but in this 523 00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:51,280 Speaker 1: world of ozembic and all of these things going on, 524 00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:52,760 Speaker 1: I am frightened. 525 00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:54,600 Speaker 2: We're going right back. 526 00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:59,760 Speaker 1: To the diet pill base, where everyone was doing anything 527 00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:03,719 Speaker 1: to be skinny and look away. They were very unhealthy, 528 00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:08,280 Speaker 1: and you know, media pushed this agenda that really hurt 529 00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:12,040 Speaker 1: a lot of women and young girls. And I'm personally 530 00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:15,080 Speaker 1: fearful of where we're going, but someone who lives it, 531 00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:19,080 Speaker 1: I'm curious of what you think. You know, where where 532 00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:22,160 Speaker 1: are we going in fashion and modeling and beauty. 533 00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:26,760 Speaker 3: I think that it's a classic two steps forward, one 534 00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:30,920 Speaker 3: step back situation. I do think that when we look 535 00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:34,760 Speaker 3: back at this industry in terms of inclusion, you know, 536 00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:38,479 Speaker 3: twenty years from now, it will look like the stock market. 537 00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:40,720 Speaker 3: It will have gone up over time, but there will 538 00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:44,120 Speaker 3: be highs and lows along the way. And I think 539 00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:46,080 Speaker 3: that sure, we might be in a dip right now, 540 00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:49,680 Speaker 3: but we're still up here and not here because fifteen 541 00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:52,680 Speaker 3: years ago, we wouldn't have even been having this conversation 542 00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:55,920 Speaker 3: about like, uh, what's happened to the inclusion? Why are 543 00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:59,840 Speaker 3: we doing this? We just like subscribed and did what 544 00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:03,720 Speaker 3: we you know, we tried to do everything we could 545 00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:05,760 Speaker 3: to look like the way we were supposed to, which 546 00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:09,840 Speaker 3: was the beauty ideal. What's different about now and has 547 00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:12,960 Speaker 3: been for the last few years, is that we can 548 00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:16,000 Speaker 3: control more of the media we see. And I know 549 00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:18,120 Speaker 3: there's algorithms, and I know there are still, you know, 550 00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:20,560 Speaker 3: advertisements that we see a huge number of on a 551 00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:23,800 Speaker 3: day that we can't control. However, I think that we 552 00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:27,320 Speaker 3: would be remiss not to take advantage of that. You know, 553 00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:32,240 Speaker 3: we should all be really, really, really conscious about what 554 00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:37,440 Speaker 3: we're consuming, who we're consuming content from. Even if it 555 00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:40,000 Speaker 3: seems like a simple scroll on your phone, you know, 556 00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:44,400 Speaker 3: that's something that is really embedding an ideal into your head. 557 00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:48,120 Speaker 3: And so if someone makes you feel like shit, unfollow them. 558 00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:50,920 Speaker 3: Don't follow any brands because they tend to be the 559 00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:58,240 Speaker 3: purveyors of these standards. Follow divers voices, diverse bodies, diverse ideologies, 560 00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:03,680 Speaker 3: so that you can become desensitized to being told one 561 00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:07,440 Speaker 3: way how to live or or love or whatever it is. 562 00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:10,440 Speaker 3: But I think that we need to be really conscious 563 00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:12,560 Speaker 3: of the power that we do have to shape what 564 00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:13,640 Speaker 3: we consume. 565 00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:17,200 Speaker 1: Because it's like a twofold, like social media can be 566 00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:21,120 Speaker 1: so fucking toxic and such a hard place to live 567 00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:25,800 Speaker 1: in that world, and yet we do have so much reach, 568 00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:32,360 Speaker 1: which you experienced firsthand. You have this beautiful confidence that 569 00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:34,280 Speaker 1: so many young girls like. 570 00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:39,240 Speaker 2: It is so contagious, Lauren, and I just. 571 00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:45,200 Speaker 1: I wish more people saw that and showed that real 572 00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:49,720 Speaker 1: that realness, because it is like social media is so fake, 573 00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:53,640 Speaker 1: it just is no one knows anything. A picture can 574 00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:58,920 Speaker 1: say a million different things, and I think you've really 575 00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:02,600 Speaker 1: figured out the loophole to really move the needle in 576 00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:06,520 Speaker 1: a way that is important for young girls to see. 577 00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:11,400 Speaker 1: Do you feel that that sense of obligation now to 578 00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:17,080 Speaker 1: show up and really speak truth and this undeniable confidence 579 00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:20,600 Speaker 1: every single day through your platform or you just kind 580 00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:22,120 Speaker 1: of like, you know what this is me? You either 581 00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:24,360 Speaker 1: fucking subscribe to it or you don't keep a pushing. 582 00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:26,879 Speaker 2: I mean both are great. 583 00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:30,239 Speaker 3: Both are Sometimes it's some days it's one, some days 584 00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:32,000 Speaker 3: it's the other. But I will say I hate social 585 00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:35,040 Speaker 3: media and so if this wasn't my job and I 586 00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:38,120 Speaker 3: wasn't finding purpose in the representation that I provide, I 587 00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:41,440 Speaker 3: would not be using it. And so yes, very conscious 588 00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:45,239 Speaker 3: about it. Sometimes it's like a naked picture of my 589 00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:50,120 Speaker 3: body unposed that like helps people normalize what bodies really 590 00:34:50,160 --> 00:34:53,960 Speaker 3: look like. Sometimes it's like an insane makeup look that 591 00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:58,200 Speaker 3: one of my queer makeup artist friends did for, you know, 592 00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:01,040 Speaker 3: a Pride show that I was in, and and even 593 00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:05,560 Speaker 3: that to me is representation in doing what you want 594 00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:08,640 Speaker 3: to do and being creative and surrounding yourself with community. 595 00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:12,319 Speaker 3: And so I definitely think about it because I mean, 596 00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:14,600 Speaker 3: you would not catch me on the internet if I 597 00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:16,319 Speaker 3: did not have a purpose like that. I would be 598 00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:18,319 Speaker 3: in the woods with dogs. Get me out of here. 599 00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:19,799 Speaker 3: Oh my god. 600 00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:21,920 Speaker 2: I love it in the same way. 601 00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:25,560 Speaker 1: I'm like this the same I'm like, I just want 602 00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:29,440 Speaker 1: to like shut everything out, live off the land and 603 00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:31,280 Speaker 1: a farm and just have like I'm. 604 00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:32,759 Speaker 2: Telling you, I'll pack ups. 605 00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:36,040 Speaker 3: Yes, I want you there. 606 00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:38,520 Speaker 2: I want goats, I want horses. 607 00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:42,200 Speaker 3: I want chicken. Everyone's need chicken. 608 00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:45,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm like what everyone asked me, you know, questions 609 00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:48,839 Speaker 1: all the time about like what's next and how is this? 610 00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:51,760 Speaker 2: And I'm like, y'all, I just want peace and rest. 611 00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:55,160 Speaker 3: It is uneasy to be be joyful and content. It 612 00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:59,000 Speaker 3: is it's women are not taught, and that is an option. 613 00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:03,720 Speaker 3: We really are not And so it is very physically 614 00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:08,000 Speaker 3: and mentally uncomfortable to just even a day of the 615 00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:13,239 Speaker 3: week that you're just being present and doing nothing and 616 00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:17,160 Speaker 3: being in your thoughts and you know, fostering relationships and 617 00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:19,560 Speaker 3: not you know, or maybe you're out in nature. 618 00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:25,440 Speaker 1: It's hard, and sometimes you need the platform to understand purpose, 619 00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:29,960 Speaker 1: to understand your why. You know, it's like, yeah, this 620 00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:32,560 Speaker 1: life has given you a platform where people want to 621 00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:36,279 Speaker 1: listen and people want to learn and people want to 622 00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:40,520 Speaker 1: be better. And you just did it because you loved it. 623 00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:43,080 Speaker 1: But you don't realize by doing what you love, like 624 00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:46,120 Speaker 1: this now has such a bigger purpose and a bigger 625 00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:48,919 Speaker 1: meaning and I think it's so profound. I think it's 626 00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:52,240 Speaker 1: so special, and not a lot of people in life 627 00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:55,840 Speaker 1: get to unlock that access and you've done it so 628 00:36:55,960 --> 00:36:59,919 Speaker 1: beautifully and I want to say thank you because you've 629 00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:03,120 Speaker 1: you've really changed the landscape for a lot of young 630 00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:08,000 Speaker 1: girls who carry so much shame because of what media 631 00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:11,080 Speaker 1: tells them the way they should look, and you're you 632 00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:16,799 Speaker 1: disrupted that and like it's not small, It's like it's 633 00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:20,920 Speaker 1: so big and it's so pure and it's so beautiful 634 00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:23,560 Speaker 1: and I'm so grateful and I want Lauren, I had 635 00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:26,640 Speaker 1: I just have to tell you that, like, it's really 636 00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:28,960 Speaker 1: special and I don't even know you well, but I 637 00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:31,840 Speaker 1: want to support you and I want to be in 638 00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:36,760 Speaker 1: your your ecosystem because you make people better by showing 639 00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:38,040 Speaker 1: them exactly who you are. 640 00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:41,120 Speaker 3: Thanks. That means the world right back at you, obviously. 641 00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:44,120 Speaker 3: I mean, I'm just so floored. And yeah, I guess 642 00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:46,920 Speaker 3: I want to make sure that everything that I do 643 00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:52,719 Speaker 3: teaches women that you can live however you want to live. 644 00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:55,920 Speaker 3: You know, whether that's has to do with your appearance 645 00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:59,880 Speaker 3: or identity, or what you do for work, the space 646 00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:02,360 Speaker 3: you take up, do it the way that you want to. 647 00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:05,680 Speaker 3: You'll find the community that you're meant to find, and 648 00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:09,760 Speaker 3: you will feel like you're living your life. 649 00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:11,040 Speaker 2: I love that. 650 00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:16,320 Speaker 1: And last question because it totally matters. What w NBA 651 00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:19,120 Speaker 1: team do you support? Because I need to know. 652 00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:22,160 Speaker 3: Okay, you know what we should do. The four of 653 00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:27,280 Speaker 3: us should go to a Liberty game. Done for done, Liberty, 654 00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:30,520 Speaker 3: Liberty pr got us court signed. Let's go. 655 00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:31,879 Speaker 2: Okay, double date. 656 00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:35,600 Speaker 1: I have tickets to the Liberty if they are my 657 00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:40,760 Speaker 1: team too, Like I am obsessed with everything, Ellie. 658 00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:42,360 Speaker 2: My children. 659 00:38:43,520 --> 00:38:47,560 Speaker 3: Stallar fucking star literally. 660 00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:50,759 Speaker 1: My kids all day all they talk about is when 661 00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:51,800 Speaker 1: are we going to see Ellie? 662 00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:54,200 Speaker 2: I bring them to the game. Last week. 663 00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:59,240 Speaker 1: We have to leave full hysterical meltdown that Ellie couldn't 664 00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:02,480 Speaker 1: come and have a sleep over. I had to, like, 665 00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:05,759 Speaker 1: I mean, people were like, oh, what is that mom 666 00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:09,040 Speaker 1: doing to that poor little child. I'm like, honey, there 667 00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:11,000 Speaker 1: are a lot of strings I can pull. 668 00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:14,600 Speaker 2: This is not one of them. Mom can't bring Ellie. 669 00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:19,040 Speaker 3: You're gonna have to get a maybe you can find 670 00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:20,280 Speaker 3: Ellie costume. 671 00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:22,800 Speaker 1: So now for the next birthday, you know, I'm gonna 672 00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:24,759 Speaker 1: have to like borrow that costume and. 673 00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:28,280 Speaker 3: Be like, We're doing our bachelorette party at the Liberty 674 00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:30,520 Speaker 3: Mercury game in a in a suite at the end 675 00:39:30,560 --> 00:39:34,520 Speaker 3: of the month, so kind of like an Ellie private call. 676 00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:38,600 Speaker 3: I guess, I don't know, but the is starting a team, 677 00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:41,960 Speaker 3: so I'm getting done. You're gonna be torn here, I'm 678 00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:46,319 Speaker 3: gonna be torn. But for now, card Owner, No, it's 679 00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:48,920 Speaker 3: gonna be great. But for now, we're Liberty. We're Liberty girls, 680 00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:50,799 Speaker 3: and I'm going to take you up on that. We're 681 00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:52,960 Speaker 3: going to have a double date and it's gonna be 682 00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:56,560 Speaker 3: so much fun and I can't wait. 683 00:39:56,680 --> 00:39:59,640 Speaker 2: So thank you. So much, Lauren for coming on the show, 684 00:40:00,239 --> 00:40:01,680 Speaker 2: for being who you are. 685 00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:07,040 Speaker 1: You're absolutely wonderful, You're fantastic, your magic and everyone always 686 00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:08,920 Speaker 1: says that about you. So I'm glad I got to 687 00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:11,080 Speaker 1: see it in person, and I am. 688 00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:14,720 Speaker 2: Right until next time, honey, Thanks for coming on Wide Open, 689 00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:18,000 Speaker 2: Thanks for having me. Bye, everyone, See you next week. 690 00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:23,920 Speaker 4: Wide Open with Ashlin Harris is an iHeart women's sports production. 691 00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:28,040 Speaker 4: You can find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 692 00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:32,280 Speaker 4: or wherever you get your podcasts. Our producers are Carmen 693 00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:38,200 Speaker 4: Borca Correo, Emily Maronov, and Lucy Jones. Production assistants from 694 00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:44,080 Speaker 4: Malia Aguidello. Our executive producers are Jesse Katz, Jenny Kaplan 695 00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:48,120 Speaker 4: and Emily Rudder. Our editors are Jenny Kaplan and Emily 696 00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:52,239 Speaker 4: Rudder and I'm your host, Ashlyn Harris