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Speaker 1: Fellow conspiracy realist, we are returning to you with a

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Speaker 1: pretty sensitive real life conspiracy that we first explored in

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty. Guys, riddle me this. Have you ever got

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Speaker 1: the vague spidey sense that some people are above the law?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? What are you talking about? Man?

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Speaker 1: Rule is not a stick for us. I can't get

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Speaker 1: away with a I can't get out of a fine

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Speaker 1: for a late book at the library. But as we

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Speaker 1: learned in tonight's classic episode back in twenty sixteen, uh,

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Speaker 1: there were serious crimes committed by Saudi nationals and for

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Speaker 1: one reason or another, they got to pass the kind

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Speaker 1: of stuff that would put you under the prison.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well not.

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Speaker 3: Look look at all the pardons flying around. I mean, yes,

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Speaker 3: there are people are above the law, and it's all

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Speaker 3: about who you know and what you know. What you've

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Speaker 3: got on me, And by me, I mean the government

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Speaker 3: or the individual that's you know, giving that pass. But

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Speaker 3: I just don't believe in rule of law anymore.

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Speaker 2: Guys.

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Speaker 3: I'm sorry, I know that's such a bummer thing to say,

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Speaker 3: but it is tough.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, especially in this episode, as we're about to describe.

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Speaker 4: When you have a child who gets hit by a car.

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Speaker 4: There should probably be consequences for the driver of that car.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, oh yeah, that's what we thought until we

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Speaker 5: dove in. So please join us for our classic episode,

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Speaker 5: why does the United States let Saudi fugitives flee the country?

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Speaker 6: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies, history is

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Speaker 6: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 6: learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 6: production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 4: Hello, welcome back to the show.

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Speaker 2: My name is Matt, my name is Noel.

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Speaker 1: They call me Ben. We're joined as always with our

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Speaker 1: super producer Paul. Mission Control decads. Most importantly, you are you,

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Speaker 1: You are here, and that makes this stuff they don't

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Speaker 1: want you to know. Which off air is still working

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Speaker 1: on a title for this one. I don't know what

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Speaker 1: we'll end up with, but I was pitching it to

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Speaker 1: the Gang as the episode where we start a fight

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Speaker 1: with the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. What are we talking about?

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Speaker 1: There are so many there's so many beef points between

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Speaker 1: the US and Saudi Arabia or the world in the Kingdom.

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Speaker 1: Here's this GUO. Today's episode may be a sensitive subject

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Speaker 1: to many in the audience. It touches on several ongoing

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Speaker 1: legal cases which will many of which will likely not

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Speaker 1: be resolved for one reason or another. You might not

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Speaker 1: be aware of this one, but it is an international conspiracy.

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Speaker 1: It's at least a decade old, probably older. It continues

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Speaker 1: as we record today, and there's not a solution. Really,

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Speaker 1: it is set to continue in the future. The best

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Speaker 1: way for us to get into this story is to

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Speaker 1: explore it through a specific recent example in Oregon that

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Speaker 1: just hit a crisis point in twenty nineteen, but it

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Speaker 1: begins in twenty sixteen. So here are the facts.

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Speaker 3: Yes, on August nineteenth of twenty sixteen, Abdul Rahman Samir

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Speaker 3: Norah was charged with first degree manslaughter for fatally hitting

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Speaker 3: a fifteen year old girl named Fallon Smart with his

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Speaker 3: car in Portland. The charge was technically elevated manslaughter. We've

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Speaker 3: talked about the weirdness but behind these types of kind

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Speaker 3: of delineations of styles.

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Speaker 2: Of murder, but yeah, elevated manslaughter.

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Speaker 3: Alleges that Nourra caused Smart's death unlawfully and recklessly under

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Speaker 3: circumstances manifesting extreme indifferent to the value of human life.

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Speaker 3: Whooh okay, Smart was crossing legally in front of traffic

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Speaker 3: when neurra illegally swerved into the left turn lane and

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Speaker 3: hit her at fifty five to sixty miles per hour.

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Speaker 3: Nourra was driving on a suspended license, did not stop

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Speaker 3: after running over this person, and police said that he

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Speaker 3: later returned to the scene, which I guess the indication

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Speaker 3: there is just kind of wanton disregard for you know,

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Speaker 3: consequences perhaps, but we'll see.

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Speaker 4: Well, I mean he's going back to see what happened, right, Oh.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, But also like there's a got it. You know,

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Speaker 2: that's a luxury.

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Speaker 3: I would say, like if I was gonna flee, I

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Speaker 3: would fully flee.

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Speaker 2: I wouldn't be like, oh.

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Speaker 3: Dude, do let's go back and see what happened.

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Speaker 2: So that's a little bit interesting.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he was likely this is my speculation, he was

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Speaker 1: likely instructed by someone to return and assured that things

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Speaker 1: would ultimately be okay. He had been in the US

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Speaker 1: for some time. He first visited the country in twenty

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Speaker 1: fourteen from his native Saudi Arabia, was on a student visa.

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Speaker 1: As you know, many people traveled to the US on

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Speaker 1: a student visa. He was studying at Portland Community College.

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Speaker 1: The Saudi Arabian government, through its consulate, retained private attorneys,

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Speaker 1: one of whom will occur later in this story, Ginger Mooney.

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Speaker 1: And they cut his bail was I think initially said

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Speaker 1: it a million dollars. So they cut one hundred thousand

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Speaker 1: dollars check for his bail. He was put on pre

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Speaker 1: trial supervision kind of like house arrest, ankle, monitor, the bracelet,

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Speaker 1: the whole nine, and his passport was taken. That's important

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Speaker 1: because typically in the world of legal international travel, there

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Speaker 1: is only one living person right now who can travel

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Speaker 1: without a passport. That is the Queen of England. Weird story,

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Speaker 1: It's true. We have a I think we have a

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Speaker 1: video about it somewhere brain stuff or stuff they don't

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Speaker 1: want you to know. So here's where our law and

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Speaker 1: order music starts kicking in. Two weeks before his trial,

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Speaker 1: which was scheduled for June twenty seventeen, Nora disappears. A

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Speaker 1: black suv is seen pulling into the home where he's

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Speaker 1: staying at. He was staying at a with a host

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Speaker 1: family along with a cousin he was very close to.

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Speaker 1: We know that he was driven to a gravel lot

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Speaker 1: about two miles away, and we know this because he

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Speaker 1: still had his tracking monitor on his ankle. So the

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Speaker 1: FEDS followed that signal to the gravel lot and found

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Speaker 1: that someone had sliced the monitor off and just discarded it.

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Speaker 1: They're also cell phone, laptop stuff involved here. From there,

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Speaker 1: federal authorities in the US believed nor who is, by

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Speaker 1: the way, just twenty one at this point. He's a

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Speaker 1: young kid. He was given a fake or illicit passport,

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Speaker 1: and he was flown somehow out of the US, likely

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Speaker 1: on a private plane.

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Speaker 4: And you may be wondering, Wow, this guy must be

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Speaker 4: really important this for that to go down, or he

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Speaker 4: must be extremely rich to be able to get someone

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Speaker 4: to do that. Either someone did that for him or

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Speaker 4: he did it on his own accord. It's very strange,

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Speaker 4: just the fact that a precaution would be taken, like

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Speaker 4: a pretty extreme precaution, taking a passport, making sure, okay,

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Speaker 4: this person is not going to leave, and then to

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Speaker 4: be able to have an organized group of people to

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Speaker 4: assist in getting this person out of the country. There's

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Speaker 4: something deeper going on. It feels like a movie, like

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Speaker 4: like some kind of spy movie or a caper.

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Speaker 1: Right, absolutely absolutely, because look, you know, I complained about

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Speaker 1: this off air earlier. I can't get away with overdue

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Speaker 1: library fees, you know what I mean, Like I have

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Speaker 1: consequences for that. How did this guy give the Feds

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Speaker 1: the slip and get out of the country. What's happening?

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Speaker 1: The thing is, federal prosecutors, without disclosing all of the

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Speaker 1: specifics of their information other than what we've just mentioned,

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Speaker 1: federal prosecutors are certain that the Saudi Arabian government itself

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Speaker 1: conspired to remove Nora before he could face any actual

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Speaker 1: jail time for killing this child. And you know, for

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Speaker 1: the record, it doesn't seem like it was premeditated murder.

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Speaker 1: It feels like it was a horrific accidental tragedy.

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Speaker 4: But that doesn't lick.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And you know, I joked about the lines that

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Speaker 3: we make in the law between different types of killing,

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Speaker 3: and obviously some of them exists for a reason, premeditated

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Speaker 3: versus an accident, a tragedy, something that you participated in

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Speaker 3: but perhaps did not actually intend to do. I understand that,

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Speaker 3: but this is also you know, there's a level of

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Speaker 3: wantonness and a level of disregard for human life on

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Speaker 3: display here that is very troubling.

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Speaker 2: At the very least.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the authorities noted, like the local police in Portland

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Speaker 1: noted that at the time, Norah seemed markedly indifferent to

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Speaker 1: the fact that there was someone dead because of his driving.

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Speaker 1: But we have to be careful with that kind of

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Speaker 1: emotional attribution because he could have just been in shock. Also,

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Here's the thing. You've probably

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Speaker 1: heard of extradition treaties. You don't have to be a

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Speaker 1: legal expert to know what they are. Extradition treaties are

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Speaker 1: agreements that countries make, or that agreements that either individual

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Speaker 1: countries make bilaterally, or there are agreements that coalitions like

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Speaker 1: the EU will make for EU member states. Not every

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Speaker 1: country has an extradition treaty with every other country, which

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Speaker 1: is how some people are able to fake their deaths

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Speaker 1: and get away and live in a non extradition country,

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Speaker 1: and when the authorities find out that they've committed pseudo side,

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Speaker 1: which is the correct word, it doesn't matter if those

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Speaker 1: people are faking their death because you can't get them

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Speaker 1: back to your country to face their crimes. The US

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Speaker 1: and Saudi Arabia do not have an extradition treaty, so

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Speaker 1: it is highly unlikely that Nora would be arrested inside

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Speaker 1: the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia for this crime in the US,

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Speaker 1: and it is virtually impossible. It would be unprecedented for

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Speaker 1: the Kingdom to actually send one of one of their

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Speaker 1: own citizens to the US to serve time in the

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Speaker 1: US prison system. Currently, the FEDS say they don't know

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Speaker 1: specifically where ig Nora is in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. So,

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Speaker 1: in short, all the details aside, the main takeaway is this,

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Speaker 1: he killed a child, a fifteen year old, and he

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Speaker 1: got away with it. And it gets worse, boy.

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Speaker 2: Does it ever.

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Speaker 4: And as we said, this took place in Portland, Oregon,

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Speaker 4: and there's a journalist there working for The Oregonian also

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Speaker 4: known as Oregon Live. His name is Shane Dixon Kavanaugh,

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Speaker 4: and he's been looking into this pretty extensively. There are

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Speaker 4: many many articles you can read on the websites there

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Speaker 4: to learn about this, and he has found that it

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Speaker 4: appears that this isn't just a one off, This isn't

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Speaker 4: an exception to the rule. This seems to be a

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Speaker 4: much larger issue, a pattern of people getting away with

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Speaker 4: terrible things in the United States and being sent back

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Speaker 4: to Saudi Arabia somehow right.

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Speaker 1: I like that you point out this as an iteration

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Speaker 1: of a pattern. That's our that this is our conspiracy

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Speaker 1: for today. How many people as the government of Saudi

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Speaker 1: Arabia removed from justice? And perhaps more importantly and more disturbingly,

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Speaker 1: why aren't the FEDS doing anything about it? This is

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Speaker 1: a question will answer after a word from our sponsor.

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Speaker 1: Here's where it gets crazy. So Kavanaugh, if you're listening,

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Speaker 1: thank you for doing this amazing work. I was as

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Speaker 1: profoundly impressed. Kavanaugh has made a series that is ongoing

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Speaker 1: called Fleeing Justice, which is available now at Oregonlive dot com.

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Speaker 1: In his investigation, he bread crumbed together dozens of cases

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Speaker 1: of Saudi Arabian nationals, typically young college students, illegally fleeing

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Speaker 1: the US and Canada after being charged with serious crimes.

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Speaker 1: And we're not talking about stuff like late fees at

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Speaker 1: Blockbuster or libraries or something.

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Speaker 4: Is that a crime? Late fees at Blockbuster? Because if so,

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Speaker 4: I am a criminal.

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Speaker 1: I still think about that, Like, how different would the

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Speaker 1: world be? Maybe I should have paid those late fees?

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Speaker 3: Well, what happens when the company like dissolves? I mean

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Speaker 3: there is technically one remaining active blockbuster. But ben to

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Speaker 3: your earlier point, the public library, they are relentless. They

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Speaker 3: will come after you, they will like you know, dos you,

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Speaker 3: and it's very scary to be on the wrong side

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Speaker 3: of the public library system.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the word on the street is that librarians trained

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Speaker 1: under the most elite hounding four in the US, which

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Speaker 1: is of course, people who want to talk to you

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Speaker 1: about your car's extended warranty. They're pretty much the Seal

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Speaker 1: Team six of bugging you. But I'm jiddy, but look,

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Speaker 1: you know, we're trying to inject levity into this because

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Speaker 1: these individuals were charged with, not convicted, but charged with

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Speaker 1: things like manslaughter, rape, more kinds of sexual assault, illegal

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Speaker 1: possession of firearms, possession of graphic depictions of child abuse,

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Speaker 1: and charges of like encouraging soliciting disseminating that kind of material.

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Speaker 1: Kavanaugh found these and then he also found he was

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Speaker 1: the one who originally reported this story that we just

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Speaker 1: shared with you at the top of the show. He

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Speaker 1: also found a pattern of state level interference from the

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Speaker 1: Kingdom of Saudi Arabia with each of these cases, and

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Speaker 1: then he found that this has been an open secret

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Speaker 1: among federal authorities for at least a decade. I would

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Speaker 1: argue probably more like everybody's just not getting it, just

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Speaker 1: wasn't getting reported near as often until Kavanaugh started digging it.

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Speaker 3: Yes, and for the record, I've always been a big

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Speaker 3: fan of The Oregonian and the reporting they've done. A

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Speaker 3: show that I worked on that I mentioned cup too.

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Speaker 3: Now we actually had Phil Stanford, who once wrote for

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Speaker 3: The Oregonian on the show, and they've definitely done good

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Speaker 3: work in investigative journalism over the years. This series from

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Speaker 3: Cavanaugh began when he learned about this particular case involving Nora. Cavanaugh,

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Speaker 3: through tons of deep dive of research, was able to

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Speaker 3: conclude and this is a quote from the piece. Despite

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Speaker 3: unknowns in the ongoing investigation, officials with the US Department

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Speaker 3: of Homeland Security and US Marshall Service are all but

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Speaker 3: certain who helped orchestrate the remarkable escape the Kingdom of

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Speaker 3: Saudi Arabia, and therein lies a pattern. This is this

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Speaker 3: is no longer in the quote that the Saudi government

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Speaker 3: paid bail hired attorneys to defend nearly all of these

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Speaker 3: young men, most of whom were international college students at

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Speaker 3: the time, and in each case they were able to

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Speaker 3: extract them before they were forced to face prosecution or

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Speaker 3: complete jail sentences. Some were traced back to Saudi Arabia

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Speaker 3: even after surrendering their passports to US authorities. And to

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Speaker 3: your point, Ben, that's crazy. That's a level of like

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Speaker 3: like cheat code, you know, boss move that most are

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Speaker 3: not capable of and definitely requires some kind of level

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Speaker 3: of collusion on the part of our government.

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Speaker 2: I'm just putting that out there.

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Speaker 4: And then they realized, you know, there are several cases

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Speaker 4: in Oregon. You know, if you imagine Kevanaugh working there

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Speaker 4: at a paper that's based in city, He's looking at

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Speaker 4: cases that are happening around him, right, and then he

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Speaker 4: and his team discover that, oh no, it's not just Oregon.

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Speaker 4: There's other cases like this in Montana, in Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, Utah, Washington, Wisconsin,

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Speaker 4: and they're realizing, oh my god, this is happening across

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Speaker 4: the US and beyond.

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Speaker 1: They also find two cases in Nova Scotia, Saudi students

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Speaker 1: and two separate incidents had skipped bail and they had

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Speaker 1: disappeared after being accused of sexual assault. I think it's

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Speaker 1: fair to say disappeared because they end up back at

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Speaker 1: the Kingdom. That's what happens. They may go somewhere else,

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Speaker 1: to some other country after that, but they go back

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Speaker 1: to their home country in Saudi Arabia. To your point, Matt,

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Speaker 1: In Oregon, Kavanaugh's team found seven cases they could verify

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Speaker 1: involving Saudi nationals who vanished before they face trial or

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Speaker 1: completed the jail sentence. These were two people accused of rape,

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Speaker 1: a pair of suspected hit and run drivers, one of

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Speaker 1: whom was Nuraw. One man accused of having depictions of

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Speaker 1: child abuse on his computer, sexual assault charges. One man

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Speaker 1: accused of carrying a loaded illegal firearm and that's like

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Speaker 1: that one is the lightest crime that guy. All of

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Speaker 1: these people were young men studying at colleges or universities

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Speaker 1: in Oregon with assistants from the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia

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Speaker 1: at the time of their arrest. I want to give

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Speaker 1: a comparison here, and we'll make sure that we're not

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Speaker 1: just picking on Saudi Arabia before this episode is over,

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Speaker 1: so spoiler alert, but I want to make a comparison, folks,

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Speaker 1: conspiracy realists, Imagine that you went on a trip with

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Speaker 1: Matt Noll Mischig control of myself, and we were I

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Speaker 1: don't know, we're backpacking around crow Waitia, or we're doing

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Speaker 1: for some reason doing a tour in China wishes or horses.

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Speaker 1: They let us in and then I don't want to

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Speaker 1: accuse us of heinous crimes. But let's say one of

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Speaker 1: us commits heinous crime. You know what.

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Speaker 4: Let's say I guess to say an accidental death.

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Speaker 1: Yes, let's say we get in a bar fight. We

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Speaker 1: get in a bar fight and don't mean to kill somebody,

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Speaker 1: but one of us kills somebody, and the government or

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Speaker 1: government of Croatia or the government of China rightly says

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Speaker 1: you're under arrest. But then if we were like these

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Speaker 1: nationals in today's episode, what would happen is that the

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Speaker 1: government of the US, let's just say the government of Podcasting,

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Speaker 1: the government of Podcasting, then would find a smart spycraft

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Speaker 1: way to contact us right and communicate with us through

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Speaker 1: a juice or clandestine means, and then they would essentially say, Matt,

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Speaker 1: if you're if you're the person who accidentally threw the

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Speaker 1: fatal punch, then they would essentially say, Okay, we're gonna

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Speaker 1: post your bail. Right, you're on house arrest. Cool at

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Speaker 1: twelve forty three pm on you know this Tuesday. Just

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Speaker 1: walk outside, stop at the threshold of your door so

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Speaker 1: the ankle monitor doesn't ping. And then when the car

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Speaker 1: pulls up, hop in, don't ask any questions, and then

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Speaker 1: you get you get they'll hand you a US a

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Speaker 1: real looking US passport that says like real guy, last

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Speaker 1: name or something, you know, and it's got a picture

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Speaker 1: on it, and then boom, you're in the US. You'll

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Speaker 1: you'll never get to go to Zagreb or Croatia or

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Speaker 1: Beijing or China again. But you'll also never serve a

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Speaker 1: day in jail. That doesn't that doesn't happen to the

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Speaker 1: average person in the planet, and it shouldn't, right, Like,

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Speaker 1: is that not crazy? That's insane to me?

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Speaker 4: It is crazy, And it's almost it's very similar to

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Speaker 4: what we've discussed before when a spy who was operating

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Speaker 4: under diplomatic immunity or something is operating in a different country. Right,

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Speaker 4: doesn't it feel like that?

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Speaker 2: Yes, I mean, I know.

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Speaker 3: We're gonna get there, but it's just it's galling to me.

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Speaker 3: It's like this, this doesn't happen in a vacuum, you know,

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Speaker 3: I mean there's somebody helping the process along the way.

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Speaker 2: Is it sanctioned? Is it completely under the table? Uh?

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Speaker 3: Just to keep the relationship, you know, nice and tidy

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Speaker 3: with this country that we depend on.

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Speaker 4: These are these are good questions, nol uh we we

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Speaker 4: we need to delve further though.

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Speaker 1: The answer is no disgusting.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, there you go, there you go.

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Speaker 1: That's that's that's the spoiler I'll give now. We we

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Speaker 1: didn't want to go down too far down the rabbit hole. Again.

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Speaker 1: You can read reports by Pro Public, you can report

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Speaker 1: reports by the Orgonian and a couple of other high

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Speaker 1: quality outlets about this. But just to give you this scope,

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Speaker 1: like we want to name some of these people. So

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Speaker 1: picture Kavanaugh again picking up the breadcrumbs, putting the pieces together. Here.

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Speaker 1: In addition to Nara, he found multiple people, as we said,

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Speaker 1: like round twenty, there's Mohammed Zurabi al Zoabi. He's one

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Speaker 1: of the Nova Scotia folks. In twenty eighteen he disappeared.

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Speaker 1: He was facing numerous charges of sexual assault and forcible

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Speaker 1: confinement of a woman over a series of incidences occurring

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Speaker 1: between twenty fifteen and twenty seventeen.

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Speaker 4: There's Sammi Solomon al Mezzani. He was in Montana. This

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Speaker 4: is in twenty seventeen. He was accused of raping his

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Speaker 4: roommate after the pair return home from a downtown music

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Speaker 4: festival in That was in July of twenty seventeen.

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Speaker 3: Next, we have Mukrin Majah al Balawi and this took

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Speaker 3: place in Washington in twenty sixteen. He was accused of

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Speaker 3: beating and stabbing a man during an altercation in February

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Speaker 3: of twenty sixteen.

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Speaker 1: And then there's Salad Abdulahti, who in Washington in twenty

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Speaker 1: sixteen disappeared. He had forcibly confined someone unlawful imprisonment it

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Speaker 1: was called, and had forces to perform sex acts upon him.

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Speaker 2: Oh, I got I'm assuming Ben.

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Speaker 3: So many of these are from the Pacific Northwest because

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Speaker 3: of the reporting from the Oregonian.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I've listed out the seven cases, but eventually, just

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Speaker 1: for the sake of time, I stopped. And I want

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Speaker 1: to again recommend that people check out Kavanaugh's work on

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Speaker 1: this because it's super easy to rabbit hole. You'll see,

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Speaker 1: like I've got links arranged where you can see this

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Speaker 1: story in the particulars of each of these cases. You'll

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Speaker 1: also see other ones that haven't been reported or maybe

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Speaker 1: collected in this series for one reason or another. But

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Speaker 1: there are cases that occur in other places in Milwaukee

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Speaker 1: and so on. In Oregon. Saud Ali Algoayz, he disappeared

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Speaker 1: in twenty sixteen. He's the illegal firearm guy. He currently

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Speaker 1: has a couple of outstanding warrants in a couple of counties.

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Speaker 1: I am going to be honest to me, having a

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Speaker 1: non registered firearm feels lighter, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 4: And next we've got Suliman Ali Ala Guayiz. This is

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Speaker 4: again in Oregon. This guy was charged with third degree assault.

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Speaker 4: He's also charged with driving under the influence of something

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Speaker 4: that was intoxicating him. There are other charges laid against him,

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Speaker 4: and that was in twenty sixteen.

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Speaker 3: They have been related, Saud and Suliman same exact last name,

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Speaker 3: or Ali al Guaz.

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Speaker 4: You know, I do not know if they are officially related,

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Speaker 4: but we're gonna get into some troubling relations a little

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Speaker 4: bit later in the episode got It.

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Speaker 3: Next we have Faisal Alta leb and this was in

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Speaker 3: Montana in twenty sixteen, and the charge here was sexual assault.

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Speaker 1: And then we have abdulah ziz hamad Aldis in Oregon

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Speaker 1: twenty fifteen, accused of sexually assaulting a class bait after

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Speaker 1: applying her with marijuana and booze.

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Speaker 3: And then we have Walid Ali al Harti and this

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Speaker 3: was also an Oregon in twenty fifteen, and this was

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Speaker 3: possession of child pornography. I mean, these charges run the

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Speaker 3: gamut of Oh my god, so so wide ranging.

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Speaker 1: And as we said, the list goes on. There is

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Speaker 1: value in naming specific people here so that we're not

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Speaker 1: just saying this number of folks, right, are part of

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Speaker 1: this pattern or iterations thereof. And you're right, they run

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Speaker 1: the gamut, but there is one thing they have in common,

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Speaker 1: which is that these people did not and will not

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Speaker 1: pay for their crimes. They exist in a different level

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Speaker 1: of justice. Then you know, most of us listening along

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Speaker 1: today unless you are one of the people named and

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Speaker 1: you happen to be listening to this episode, in which case,

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Speaker 1: feel free to reach out conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and we're talking about this almost in terms of

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Speaker 3: like you know, extraction or some kind of you know, heist,

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Speaker 3: but it's it's in none of these cases was there

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Speaker 3: an actual breaking out.

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Speaker 2: You know, these were all done more or.

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Speaker 3: Less using the tree additional means of paying bail and

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Speaker 3: using lawyers and all of that. So on paper, it

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Speaker 3: could easily be justified that this was done through the

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Speaker 3: proper channels. But as we'll see, there's nothing proper about

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Speaker 3: any of this.

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Speaker 4: I hear what you're saying, all but when we're talking

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Speaker 4: about proper channels, a proper channel is not escaping the

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Speaker 4: country illegally. That's that's why, that's why it's.

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Speaker 3: So trup no a million percent. I'm just saying, like

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Speaker 3: you know, paper trail wise. You know, they they paid

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Speaker 3: the bail, they got them out, and then they fled.

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Speaker 4: You know, well they yeah, they they skipped bail. I think, right,

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Speaker 4: that's how you would.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, they skipped bail. And it's got to be

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Speaker 1: got to be irritating to the skip tracers because there

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Speaker 1: you can trace some of these some of these individuals

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Speaker 1: pretty pretty easily. You just cannot do anything about it.

434
00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:01,320
Speaker 1: So yeah, it's they go through the proper channels up

435
00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:04,320
Speaker 1: to a point. And we'll see the uh, we'll see

436
00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:09,359
Speaker 1: the response of the the Saudi government to some of

437
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:14,280
Speaker 1: these crazy accusations. A little later in the show, it

438
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:18,000
Speaker 1: is important again to be objective, to be fair, we

439
00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:22,600
Speaker 1: have to note that these individuals were accused, they were suspected,

440
00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:28,400
Speaker 1: they were arrested or dieted. But uh, there hasn't been,

441
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:32,080
Speaker 1: to your point, no, an actual jail break, you know,

442
00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:34,840
Speaker 1: like that prison escape show that was so popular a

443
00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:38,160
Speaker 1: few years ago. There it wasn't like a tank rolled

444
00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:41,800
Speaker 1: through or someone dressed as I'm just thinking, how cool

445
00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:44,080
Speaker 1: this is a movie. Soone dressed as a prison guard

446
00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:48,400
Speaker 1: like takes off their mission impossible mask face and it's

447
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:51,600
Speaker 1: top cruise or something. It's like, we're getting you out

448
00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:54,560
Speaker 1: of the States. Nothing like that, Nothing like that, but

449
00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:56,880
Speaker 1: close enough, a real world version of it.

450
00:28:57,200 --> 00:28:59,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, and and there's there's there's a lot of really

451
00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:02,360
Speaker 3: great reporting on this to your point, Ben. And according

452
00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:06,560
Speaker 3: to Sebastian Rotella and Tim Golden, who right for Pro Publica,

453
00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:09,360
Speaker 3: they had this to say about the whole situation.

454
00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:10,280
Speaker 2: Quote.

455
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:15,760
Speaker 3: Successive American administrations have avoided confronting the government in Riyad

456
00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:19,920
Speaker 3: out of concern that doing so might jeopardize US interests,

457
00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:24,480
Speaker 3: particularly Saudi cooperation in the fight against Islamist terrorism.

458
00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:28,560
Speaker 1: So they knew. They knew about this. Again, it just

459
00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:35,000
Speaker 1: did very little to prevent it. In Mission control, Paul

460
00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:39,360
Speaker 1: Michigan Control brought up a great point. He was asking

461
00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:43,000
Speaker 1: me off air. He said, Okay, well, why is this happening?

462
00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:47,000
Speaker 1: And that's in a nutshell? And when we told him,

463
00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:53,080
Speaker 1: his next response was counter terrorism. Weren't the majority of

464
00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:58,680
Speaker 1: the terrorists involved in the events of September eleventh Saudi nationals?

465
00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:04,600
Speaker 1: And that's correct, so to be fair. A spokesperson for

466
00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:10,840
Speaker 1: the Saudi embassy in Washington named Fahad Nazer said that quote,

467
00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:14,360
Speaker 1: only a small fraction of Saudi students in the US

468
00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:18,240
Speaker 1: have gotten into any legal trouble, and that Saudi officials

469
00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:22,040
Speaker 1: have strictly adhered to all US laws in helping them.

470
00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:24,720
Speaker 1: He goes on to say the notion that the Saudi

471
00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:28,800
Speaker 1: government actively helps citizens of a justice after they've been

472
00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:33,600
Speaker 1: implicated in legal wrongdoing in the US is simply not true.

473
00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:37,080
Speaker 1: I put a little sass on that quote because it

474
00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:41,960
Speaker 1: feels categorical and explicit. But it seems that that quote

475
00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:48,120
Speaker 1: itself is at the very least misleading. Maybe the people

476
00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:53,840
Speaker 1: who are assisting in these escapes are kind of like hackers.

477
00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:57,720
Speaker 1: The hacker armies in China. Maybe they're just not officially

478
00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:01,720
Speaker 1: condoned by the government and they just feel patriotic hmmm,

479
00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:02,760
Speaker 1: or he's lying.

480
00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:05,840
Speaker 3: Well that's the thing though, Like I mean, when you

481
00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:08,440
Speaker 3: get into all this like pr speak and again, this

482
00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:12,600
Speaker 3: idea of strictly adhering to all US laws, there's a

483
00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:15,000
Speaker 3: dot dot dot there where it's up to a point,

484
00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:19,000
Speaker 3: like like you said, you can certainly say we strictly

485
00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:23,520
Speaker 3: adhere to all US laws and then we didn't until

486
00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:25,080
Speaker 3: the point where we stopped doing that thing.

487
00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:29,040
Speaker 4: Well, again, you'd have to prove that it's Saudi officials

488
00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:32,360
Speaker 4: who are doing any taking any of these actions to

489
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:33,600
Speaker 4: get citizens out.

490
00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:34,600
Speaker 2: Ah.

491
00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:38,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean that's plausible deniability, right, yeah, I mean,

492
00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:44,440
Speaker 4: you're it's a tough thing unless you've got solid evidence

493
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:49,400
Speaker 4: to to say, hey, Saudi Arabia, you have government officials

494
00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:52,600
Speaker 4: taking people out of the country and we know it.

495
00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:55,840
Speaker 4: You'd have to have serious evidence in order to make

496
00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:56,560
Speaker 4: that accusation.

497
00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:58,840
Speaker 2: And well, maybe we don't have that.

498
00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:03,720
Speaker 3: We do have have a disturbing trend, an upward trend

499
00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:06,280
Speaker 3: that we can measure, and it would seem that the

500
00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:13,239
Speaker 3: problem of US students fleeing prosecution has increased largely in

501
00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:17,320
Speaker 3: proportion to the Saudi student population in the United States,

502
00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:22,000
Speaker 3: increasing that population having been only five thousand in two

503
00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:25,680
Speaker 3: thousand and five and then about a decade later exploding

504
00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:28,520
Speaker 3: to more than eighty thousand. And that's according to the

505
00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:33,360
Speaker 3: Department of Homeland Security. The Saudi government has sponsored most

506
00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:37,080
Speaker 3: of these students under a scholarship program created by the

507
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:41,480
Speaker 3: late King Abdullah, a three billion, mind you dollar scholarship program.

508
00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:46,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, so maybe it's maybe it's just a numbers game question.

509
00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:50,880
Speaker 1: There are so many more apples that maybe are incident

510
00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:57,240
Speaker 1: of bad apples just increases, right. The FBI, State Department, Ice,

511
00:32:57,320 --> 00:33:00,320
Speaker 1: the rest of the Alphabet Boys, all the Alphabet Soup

512
00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:05,120
Speaker 1: members have confirmed to your point, Matt, that Saudi intelligence

513
00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:09,760
Speaker 1: officials do monitor Saudi nationals in the United States, and

514
00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:12,560
Speaker 1: they confirm this as part of their kind of routine

515
00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:14,760
Speaker 1: security checks. You know what I mean. It's not a

516
00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:18,160
Speaker 1: big operation snow white break into an embassy or something.

517
00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:23,240
Speaker 1: This is standard operating procedure. So what they saw the

518
00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:28,920
Speaker 1: intelligence officials doing, was the Saudi intelligence officials doing was

519
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:34,000
Speaker 1: looking for signs of possible radicalization, right, looking for signs

520
00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:39,440
Speaker 1: of denigration against the Kingdom, stuff like that. Just keeping

521
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:43,640
Speaker 1: an eye on these people, because again, that is part

522
00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:47,800
Speaker 1: and parcel of they what they do, right, I mean,

523
00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:51,360
Speaker 1: even like, if you're a US citizen and you travel

524
00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:53,320
Speaker 1: to a foreign country, you're going to be living there

525
00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:56,840
Speaker 1: for a while, it's also highly recommended that you check

526
00:33:56,880 --> 00:34:02,960
Speaker 1: in with the embassy or the consulate in case something happens. Right, again,

527
00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:06,680
Speaker 1: the US Consulate is not for the average US citizen.

528
00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:11,080
Speaker 1: The US Consulate is not going to go to these lengths,

529
00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:14,080
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, they're going they're not gonna

530
00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:16,319
Speaker 1: spirit your way or what do we say in the

531
00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:19,040
Speaker 1: troubled team industry. They're not going to go out Yeah

532
00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:23,759
Speaker 1: the situation, yeah, you put yourself in. But they found

533
00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:26,839
Speaker 1: something else when they were looking at this. The officials

534
00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:32,680
Speaker 1: found that the Saudi intelligence agents were also not just

535
00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:36,160
Speaker 1: keeping tabs on the college kids, but intervening where they

536
00:34:36,160 --> 00:34:40,440
Speaker 1: felt necessary, up to and including assisting them in escaping

537
00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:44,720
Speaker 1: criminal consequences that will put the average US citizen pretty

538
00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:47,960
Speaker 1: much under the jail. Like celebrities, the very wealthy, and

539
00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:53,160
Speaker 1: politicians obviously have a function under a different justice system,

540
00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:56,800
Speaker 1: but the average US citizen would be going to prison

541
00:34:56,920 --> 00:35:00,359
Speaker 1: for a lot of this stuff. So can can you

542
00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:05,800
Speaker 1: guess why Uncle Sam has not been doing a damn

543
00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:09,319
Speaker 1: thing about this for more than ten years? We'll tell

544
00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:19,440
Speaker 1: you after a word from our sponsor, we're back and

545
00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:22,759
Speaker 1: we hope that you have returned as well. We left

546
00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:26,200
Speaker 1: you with a question, uh, and we shouldn't have left

547
00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:28,440
Speaker 1: you without a dope. Beat the step two Here it is,

548
00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:31,560
Speaker 1: can you guess why Uncle Sam has not been doing

549
00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:36,960
Speaker 1: anything about it? Wait for folks, if you're listening along

550
00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:41,160
Speaker 1: at home and you already know the answer, please say

551
00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:43,280
Speaker 1: it with us there.

552
00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:51,600
Speaker 2: It's just the greatest, you know, the most.

553
00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:55,960
Speaker 4: Good, Yeah, for all? And what do we mean the

554
00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:56,799
Speaker 4: greater good?

555
00:35:56,840 --> 00:36:00,120
Speaker 3: We upset the Apple cards? What we mean we've got these? Well,

556
00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:02,560
Speaker 3: I mean, I don't know. It just means that we

557
00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:06,360
Speaker 3: don't want to It's like, if you compare it's like

558
00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:08,160
Speaker 3: a cost benefit analysis.

559
00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:09,879
Speaker 2: We always talk about, like if we do.

560
00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:12,279
Speaker 3: We really want to die on this hill of going

561
00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:16,200
Speaker 3: to war with the Saudi government over these like misbehaving students,

562
00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:19,560
Speaker 3: which in the grand scheme of things, you know, Uncle

563
00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:22,480
Speaker 3: Sam could easily argue not that big a deal when

564
00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:26,040
Speaker 3: you compare it to like the overall picture of.

565
00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:29,800
Speaker 4: Things, and we've actually, we've got a quote from someone

566
00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:33,200
Speaker 4: who seems to know what they're talking about, a former

567
00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:38,120
Speaker 4: FBI agent named Jeffrey Danik. He was the FBI's assistant

568
00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:42,520
Speaker 4: legal attache in Riyad from twenty ten to twenty twelve.

569
00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:47,160
Speaker 4: And this is why he thinks these students are somehow

570
00:36:47,160 --> 00:36:51,799
Speaker 4: getting back to Saudi Arabia while the FBI and other

571
00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:55,880
Speaker 4: intelligence agencies are aware. He says, it's not that the

572
00:36:55,920 --> 00:36:59,680
Speaker 4: issue of Saudi fugitives from the US wasn't important. It's

573
00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:03,759
Speaker 4: that the security relationship was so much more important on

574
00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:06,880
Speaker 4: counter terrorism, on protecting the US and its partners, on

575
00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:11,080
Speaker 4: opposing Iran. The Saudis were invaluable allies.

576
00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:17,359
Speaker 1: So yeah, this argument is a greater good argument. It's

577
00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:22,080
Speaker 1: a cost benefit analysis argument. Not everybody is making the

578
00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:24,719
Speaker 1: same argument. For the people who would speak, whether on

579
00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:30,000
Speaker 1: record or anonymously, there were people were saying, look, if

580
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:32,439
Speaker 1: this came across my desk at the time, I would

581
00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:37,080
Speaker 1: have no problem approaching whomever my contact was in the

582
00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:39,920
Speaker 1: Kingdom regarding this issue, even if it's a painful one

583
00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:42,439
Speaker 1: to bring up. But then you'll have people from other

584
00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:47,200
Speaker 1: US agencies who are saying, look, I have to. I

585
00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:54,200
Speaker 1: have to build relationships with my partners on these projects

586
00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:58,080
Speaker 1: on counter terrorism. I have to ask sensitive questions, to

587
00:37:58,120 --> 00:37:59,799
Speaker 1: do a lot of digging, and I have to have

588
00:37:59,840 --> 00:38:02,600
Speaker 1: a poor and I have to have trust. And if

589
00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:05,840
Speaker 1: I'm there to talk with these folks about something concerning

590
00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:11,120
Speaker 1: geopolitics or national security and I bring up, hey, where

591
00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:15,720
Speaker 1: are these college kids? Then I will be shut down.

592
00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:21,040
Speaker 1: And not only will I have an unsuccessful conversation or

593
00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:26,359
Speaker 1: interaction that day, but I will never have I will

594
00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:33,080
Speaker 1: never recover from pressing this point. And this The problem

595
00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:37,359
Speaker 1: with this is that both sides are valid. But if

596
00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:41,759
Speaker 1: we wanted to be hyperbolic then and engage in some

597
00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:47,440
Speaker 1: like bleeding headlines, then we would say something like the

598
00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:51,279
Speaker 1: US has made a conscious decision to sacrifice some of

599
00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:56,759
Speaker 1: its civilians. I mean, that's a terrible thing to say,

600
00:38:56,800 --> 00:38:59,640
Speaker 1: and it is misleading, and it's an appeal to emotion

601
00:38:59,719 --> 00:39:02,879
Speaker 1: and so on. But this kind of stuff also, these

602
00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:06,000
Speaker 1: kind of decisions don't occur in a vacuum. There are

603
00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:09,120
Speaker 1: other things that happen, like the US protecting opium fields

604
00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:14,000
Speaker 1: in Afghanistan, you know what I mean, Like they're you

605
00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:18,760
Speaker 1: could say that they're enabling opioid addiction and heroin addiction

606
00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:23,440
Speaker 1: in the US also shout out to the cost of

607
00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:27,359
Speaker 1: doing business argument. I think you guys saw that the Yeah,

608
00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:32,000
Speaker 1: makers of oxyconton just got slapped with attacks.

609
00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:34,920
Speaker 4: And they're shutting down. I've been My understanding is produce

610
00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:35,439
Speaker 4: going away.

611
00:39:35,719 --> 00:39:39,239
Speaker 3: Yeah, But I mean the argument you could make there

612
00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:43,200
Speaker 3: is like this family, the Sacklers, you know, and these executives,

613
00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:46,719
Speaker 3: they're basically just retiring. It's not like they're actually having

614
00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:49,480
Speaker 3: to answer for their crimes, and it's not like they're

615
00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:51,600
Speaker 3: actually going to see any Are they going to be

616
00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:54,440
Speaker 3: in the poorhouse now because of these things that have happened?

617
00:39:54,719 --> 00:39:57,719
Speaker 2: Absolutely not. And Ben the thing that.

618
00:39:57,680 --> 00:40:00,400
Speaker 3: This makes me think of, and we constantly running up

619
00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:02,600
Speaker 3: into things that make me think this is, at the

620
00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:06,759
Speaker 3: end of the day, we as a government, and many governments,

621
00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:11,080
Speaker 3: so many just don't have any moral high ground, don't

622
00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:16,480
Speaker 3: have any like moral soapbox to stand on ever, because at.

623
00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:18,359
Speaker 2: The end of the day, there's so many of.

624
00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:23,080
Speaker 3: These little calculations that involve knowingly allowing terrible things to happen,

625
00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:26,480
Speaker 3: terrible people to continue doing terrible things under our watch,

626
00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:29,719
Speaker 3: and yet we try, our politicians try to take some

627
00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:33,560
Speaker 3: kind of moral stance and say we are the you know,

628
00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:37,160
Speaker 3: law and order candidate or party or whatever, and it's.

629
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:43,920
Speaker 1: All bull I agree. I mean, look, honestly, a great

630
00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:49,360
Speaker 1: deal of the concept of morality is a pr spin

631
00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:52,800
Speaker 1: that is sold to a population, which I know sounds

632
00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:55,360
Speaker 1: brutal and cold. And I'm not saying that the people

633
00:40:58,040 --> 00:41:02,040
Speaker 1: expressing those values do not themselves believe in them. I

634
00:41:02,080 --> 00:41:06,840
Speaker 1: think often they do. But those are also tremendous rationalizations.

635
00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:11,120
Speaker 1: Countries do not have friends, Countries have interests. Right when

636
00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:15,720
Speaker 1: you get to that level, we know that. We know, however,

637
00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:19,319
Speaker 1: that single individuals can and do make a difference, such

638
00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:24,279
Speaker 1: as the reporters we've cited in today's episode. This reporting

639
00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:28,960
Speaker 1: led to action in Congress, which I'm happy to report

640
00:41:29,880 --> 00:41:35,080
Speaker 1: US Senator Ron Wyden from Oregon introduced something he called

641
00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:40,200
Speaker 1: the Saudi Fugitives Declassification Act of twenty nineteen. This is

642
00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:45,480
Speaker 1: not aimed at prosecuting these nationals because legally, again due

643
00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:49,239
Speaker 1: to extradition treaties, the ball is in the Kingdom's court.

644
00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:49,920
Speaker 2: Like it.

645
00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:55,040
Speaker 1: Would spark a war if the US sent someone in

646
00:41:55,120 --> 00:41:58,040
Speaker 1: to extract a Saudi national. That is one of the

647
00:41:58,280 --> 00:42:02,759
Speaker 1: dumbest things that the US could possibly do. And I

648
00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:07,880
Speaker 1: know lately it seems like our international actions are based

649
00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:10,279
Speaker 1: on answering that question, what is the dumbest thing we

650
00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:11,000
Speaker 1: do next?

651
00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:14,600
Speaker 4: But this has been a long time, that's been having

652
00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:15,160
Speaker 4: for a while.

653
00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:16,680
Speaker 1: That's true, that's true.

654
00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:17,640
Speaker 2: But this is not.

655
00:42:19,239 --> 00:42:22,759
Speaker 1: Something in the cards, is what I'm saying. So the

656
00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:29,160
Speaker 1: Fugitives to Classification Act is made to compel the US

657
00:42:29,200 --> 00:42:35,280
Speaker 1: federal government to publicly disclose what it knows about Saudi

658
00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:41,000
Speaker 1: Arabia's suspected role in helping citizens escape prosecutions. So we're

659
00:42:41,840 --> 00:42:46,000
Speaker 1: government employees. If you're a US citizen, technically they all

660
00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:49,439
Speaker 1: work for you. So this is a bill by one

661
00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:52,319
Speaker 1: of your employees that is telling some of your other

662
00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:57,879
Speaker 1: employees to give us more details about the job they're

663
00:42:57,920 --> 00:43:01,200
Speaker 1: supposed to be doing for you. And that's going to

664
00:43:01,280 --> 00:43:04,880
Speaker 1: run into a lot of loopholes because when anytime counter

665
00:43:04,960 --> 00:43:07,640
Speaker 1: terrorism comes up there there's going to be a lot

666
00:43:07,640 --> 00:43:11,040
Speaker 1: of redaction of stuff. Right, we can only imagine.

667
00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:15,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, we talked earlier about needing serious evidence

668
00:43:15,400 --> 00:43:19,120
Speaker 4: to be able to outright publicly accuse the Saudi Arabian

669
00:43:19,160 --> 00:43:23,560
Speaker 4: government of taking these actions, right, and really, what to me.

670
00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:27,680
Speaker 4: This bill reads as, hey, if you actually know that

671
00:43:27,800 --> 00:43:30,600
Speaker 4: this is happening, show us the evidence and lay it

672
00:43:30,600 --> 00:43:33,719
Speaker 4: out on the table somewhere so we can so we

673
00:43:33,760 --> 00:43:37,160
Speaker 4: can really show that this is what's happening. And again,

674
00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:41,000
Speaker 4: Ron Wyden, Senator Ron Wyden of Oregon is like you said, Ben,

675
00:43:41,320 --> 00:43:45,840
Speaker 4: as an employee of the people of Oregon. It seems

676
00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:48,960
Speaker 4: like he's doing it for those people who like if

677
00:43:49,200 --> 00:43:51,200
Speaker 4: we're talking about that fifteen year old the very start

678
00:43:51,239 --> 00:43:53,640
Speaker 4: of this episode who was killed in that hit and

679
00:43:53,719 --> 00:43:56,239
Speaker 4: run accident, hopefully that's what it would mean.

680
00:43:56,560 --> 00:43:59,080
Speaker 3: Is there something special about Oregon in the Pacific Northwest

681
00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:01,239
Speaker 3: that's led to so many of these cases happening there?

682
00:44:01,320 --> 00:44:03,839
Speaker 3: Or is this just kind of like a microcosm of

683
00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:04,800
Speaker 3: the bigger picture.

684
00:44:05,200 --> 00:44:08,520
Speaker 1: It's an interesting question. I would say that to a

685
00:44:08,600 --> 00:44:11,720
Speaker 1: degree it's a microcosm bigger picture, and to a degree

686
00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:16,000
Speaker 1: it's based on it. It's in the Northwest. Could you

687
00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:21,359
Speaker 1: ask this question earlier? To a degree, it's the the

688
00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:25,920
Speaker 1: maybe the nature of how the initial incidents were reported

689
00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:29,000
Speaker 1: and then discovered and corelated. But make no mistake, this

690
00:44:29,080 --> 00:44:32,480
Speaker 1: is not the Northwest specific, Yeah, nor as we'll find

691
00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:36,400
Speaker 1: is it a US specific thing. Nor, as we all know,

692
00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:41,920
Speaker 1: do bills always become laws. There are tons of everybody

693
00:44:41,920 --> 00:44:48,520
Speaker 1: remembers that song, right, I love that one. So it's

694
00:44:48,600 --> 00:44:53,640
Speaker 1: right up there with the that conspiracy animation that played

695
00:44:53,680 --> 00:44:57,040
Speaker 1: once on Saturday at Night Live, which I think you

696
00:44:57,040 --> 00:45:00,879
Speaker 1: guys remember. But the but the the thing is, this

697
00:45:00,920 --> 00:45:04,960
Speaker 1: bill was signed into law. The current presidential administration signed

698
00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:07,120
Speaker 1: it late last year, toward the end of last year.

699
00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:10,960
Speaker 1: Now the question is will it be enforced? But we

700
00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:14,200
Speaker 1: have to be we have to be honest. This is

701
00:45:14,840 --> 00:45:17,760
Speaker 1: this is an issue that is not restricted to college students.

702
00:45:18,200 --> 00:45:21,279
Speaker 1: It is not restricted to the United States, It is

703
00:45:21,360 --> 00:45:26,440
Speaker 1: not restricted to Saudi Arabia. I would say this is

704
00:45:27,040 --> 00:45:29,319
Speaker 1: one of the cases we talked about off here, Like

705
00:45:29,440 --> 00:45:34,160
Speaker 1: consider the case of someone named maid abdulah Ziz al Salad.

706
00:45:34,480 --> 00:45:37,080
Speaker 1: So in twenty fifteen, this guy, who was a member

707
00:45:37,080 --> 00:45:42,640
Speaker 1: of the royal family is living in Beverly Hills, and

708
00:45:42,280 --> 00:45:46,160
Speaker 1: he and a lot of people, a lot of really

709
00:45:46,160 --> 00:45:48,640
Speaker 1: well off folks from the Gulf will have a mansion

710
00:45:48,640 --> 00:45:50,840
Speaker 1: in Beverly Hills. Just like how you know, you know

711
00:45:50,920 --> 00:45:53,600
Speaker 1: you've really made it in the financial elite when you

712
00:45:53,719 --> 00:45:57,440
Speaker 1: have a dope house in London. So this guy became

713
00:45:57,480 --> 00:46:00,319
Speaker 1: the subject of a civil suit not a criminals in

714
00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:03,840
Speaker 1: Los Angeles when three women claimed he hired them as

715
00:46:03,920 --> 00:46:09,640
Speaker 1: housekeepers and then forcibly confined them for three days to

716
00:46:09,800 --> 00:46:18,160
Speaker 1: this crazy drug sex partying montage at his Beverly Hills mansion,

717
00:46:18,280 --> 00:46:22,080
Speaker 1: like assaulted them, held them captive. Got really weird with

718
00:46:22,280 --> 00:46:27,399
Speaker 1: King Jeoffrey style or what's that other guy, Ramsey Bolton. Yeah, yeah,

719
00:46:27,680 --> 00:46:28,000
Speaker 1: he was.

720
00:46:27,960 --> 00:46:29,360
Speaker 2: More just into torturing people.

721
00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:32,040
Speaker 3: I think Geoffrey might be a more well, they were

722
00:46:32,040 --> 00:46:34,440
Speaker 3: both pretty into torturing people and excess.

723
00:46:34,760 --> 00:46:36,000
Speaker 2: You're spot on, Ben.

724
00:46:36,239 --> 00:46:39,160
Speaker 1: So we do want to say we're going to share

725
00:46:39,239 --> 00:46:44,840
Speaker 1: some of the stuff that this fellow was accused of doing.

726
00:46:45,760 --> 00:46:46,399
Speaker 2: He was.

727
00:46:48,080 --> 00:46:51,479
Speaker 1: Did weird things. It wasn't like the typical I hate

728
00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:54,160
Speaker 1: to say it that way, but it wasn't like what

729
00:46:54,239 --> 00:46:57,520
Speaker 1: you would always think of when you think of sexual assault.

730
00:46:57,680 --> 00:47:04,560
Speaker 1: It wasn't just that like try to force these people

731
00:47:04,640 --> 00:47:08,560
Speaker 1: to perform sexual acts on him. But he also did

732
00:47:08,560 --> 00:47:12,200
Speaker 1: stuff like take off his clothes and like rub himself

733
00:47:12,239 --> 00:47:16,080
Speaker 1: on literally everybody else in the mansion, these these poor women,

734
00:47:16,680 --> 00:47:20,720
Speaker 1: his security guards, like people who are just by the pool,

735
00:47:21,040 --> 00:47:23,520
Speaker 1: And he was saying stuff like lick me, lick my

736
00:47:23,600 --> 00:47:24,600
Speaker 1: whole body.

737
00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:25,280
Speaker 6: And.

738
00:47:27,200 --> 00:47:29,799
Speaker 1: Maybe it's just the fact that no one has ever

739
00:47:29,880 --> 00:47:32,840
Speaker 1: said no to him. Then he ordered his entire staff

740
00:47:32,880 --> 00:47:36,160
Speaker 1: to get naked by the pool and said vulgar things

741
00:47:36,200 --> 00:47:40,640
Speaker 1: to him, and one woman protested, and that's when he

742
00:47:40,680 --> 00:47:41,239
Speaker 1: told her this.

743
00:47:41,640 --> 00:47:44,399
Speaker 3: Yeah, he said, you're not a woman, you're nobody. I'm

744
00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:46,680
Speaker 3: a prince and I'll do what I want and nobody

745
00:47:46,719 --> 00:47:51,440
Speaker 3: will do anything to me. So clearly an ingrained attitude.

746
00:47:52,880 --> 00:47:57,640
Speaker 3: And then he you know, triggery stuff here, folks, if

747
00:47:57,680 --> 00:48:00,880
Speaker 3: you haven't already kind of warned it, but trigger warning.

748
00:48:01,680 --> 00:48:06,400
Speaker 3: He tried to urinate on people, make them watch another

749
00:48:06,560 --> 00:48:12,680
Speaker 3: man perform a sex act on him. And you know,

750
00:48:12,880 --> 00:48:17,239
Speaker 3: this is a person that has not and most assuredly

751
00:48:17,320 --> 00:48:20,480
Speaker 3: will not be prosecuted.

752
00:48:20,760 --> 00:48:22,839
Speaker 4: And this, of course, isn't the only case we're looking at.

753
00:48:22,840 --> 00:48:24,480
Speaker 4: There's so many here we're not going to name them.

754
00:48:24,480 --> 00:48:27,560
Speaker 4: But let's look at the case of Prince Saud bin

755
00:48:27,680 --> 00:48:31,920
Speaker 4: Abdullah Ziz bin Asir al Saud, who in twenty ten

756
00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:36,440
Speaker 4: was convicted of murdering his servant Bandar Abdullah Ziz, with

757
00:48:36,560 --> 00:48:41,680
Speaker 4: whom he had been carrying on a sexual relationship. It

758
00:48:41,840 --> 00:48:46,360
Speaker 4: was pretty terrible. Bendar was beaten strangled until he died.

759
00:48:47,280 --> 00:48:49,920
Speaker 4: It was described as a drunken rage that the Prince

760
00:48:49,920 --> 00:48:54,240
Speaker 4: had entered into when this occurred, and the Prince, believing

761
00:48:54,280 --> 00:48:58,040
Speaker 4: that he would have some kind of diplomatic immunity, wasn't

762
00:48:58,080 --> 00:49:02,080
Speaker 4: necessarily afraid of any reaper cushions. However, the UK did

763
00:49:02,160 --> 00:49:05,719
Speaker 4: move forward with custody. They took him in and attempted

764
00:49:05,760 --> 00:49:08,200
Speaker 4: prosecution right right.

765
00:49:08,440 --> 00:49:12,040
Speaker 1: And this case is interesting because there's a question of

766
00:49:12,080 --> 00:49:16,560
Speaker 1: whether or not the Prince actually wanted to return to

767
00:49:16,640 --> 00:49:20,759
Speaker 1: Saudi Arabia after what was revealed in the court proceedings,

768
00:49:20,960 --> 00:49:28,400
Speaker 1: because publicly revealing that he was in a same sex

769
00:49:29,080 --> 00:49:34,319
Speaker 1: relationship of any sort could make him could make him

770
00:49:34,440 --> 00:49:39,800
Speaker 1: liable for the crime of homosexuality in Saudi Arabia, which

771
00:49:39,960 --> 00:49:44,120
Speaker 1: could lead to the death penalty, So he would want to,

772
00:49:44,520 --> 00:49:46,520
Speaker 1: you know, if his life is on the line. He

773
00:49:46,560 --> 00:49:50,160
Speaker 1: may have needed to seek asylum in the UK after

774
00:49:50,200 --> 00:49:56,360
Speaker 1: serving his sentence, because the UK has non medieval laws.

775
00:49:56,880 --> 00:50:01,600
Speaker 1: In twenty thirteen, however, the Prince was in an extraordinary move,

776
00:50:01,960 --> 00:50:05,759
Speaker 1: returned to Saudi Arabia to a prison, ostensibly to serve

777
00:50:05,800 --> 00:50:10,239
Speaker 1: out a sentence. Again, that's extraordinary. We will see what

778
00:50:10,480 --> 00:50:15,440
Speaker 1: actually happens. The laws are just different. And this is

779
00:50:15,520 --> 00:50:18,720
Speaker 1: making another this is creating another problem in the US

780
00:50:18,960 --> 00:50:23,799
Speaker 1: that we have to talk about toward the end. These

781
00:50:23,880 --> 00:50:26,480
Speaker 1: cases in the US, which are terrible, have led to

782
00:50:26,800 --> 00:50:32,080
Speaker 1: Islamophobic anti Muslim forces. Right, they've taken this stuff up

783
00:50:32,280 --> 00:50:36,440
Speaker 1: and they're stereotyping somehow all people from Saudi Arabia are

784
00:50:36,480 --> 00:50:41,359
Speaker 1: all people from the Islamic world as exactly like the

785
00:50:41,400 --> 00:50:46,040
Speaker 1: criminals in question here, which is terrible. It's one of

786
00:50:46,040 --> 00:50:49,280
Speaker 1: the worst things to take away from this. Ginger Mooney,

787
00:50:49,280 --> 00:50:51,840
Speaker 1: who we mentioned at the beginning, served as defense attorney

788
00:50:51,880 --> 00:50:55,760
Speaker 1: for several individuals in the Oregon cases. She's received death threats,

789
00:50:55,920 --> 00:51:01,279
Speaker 1: anti Muslim propaganda. She had to temporarily close her practice.

790
00:51:01,719 --> 00:51:05,120
Speaker 1: People are using this as a way to sow religious

791
00:51:05,160 --> 00:51:09,319
Speaker 1: persecution and division, which is unclean. But the point is

792
00:51:09,400 --> 00:51:12,200
Speaker 1: here that it doesn't. It doesn't seem it's religion that matters.

793
00:51:12,280 --> 00:51:15,400
Speaker 1: It just seems like money and things like counter terrorism

794
00:51:15,480 --> 00:51:19,920
Speaker 1: or geopolitical relationships weigh heavily on the scales of justice.

795
00:51:19,960 --> 00:51:23,360
Speaker 1: Go back to Afghanistan and look at how much trouble

796
00:51:24,480 --> 00:51:28,880
Speaker 1: members of the military got into when they refused to

797
00:51:29,360 --> 00:51:33,680
Speaker 1: allow child abuser warlords to function as normal, you know

798
00:51:33,719 --> 00:51:36,399
Speaker 1: what I mean. They got discharged, I believe in some

799
00:51:36,480 --> 00:51:40,720
Speaker 1: cases because they would find like literal children chained up

800
00:51:41,719 --> 00:51:44,240
Speaker 1: to be abused by people who are like police chiefs,

801
00:51:44,560 --> 00:51:46,920
Speaker 1: and they were told not to do anything about it.

802
00:51:47,480 --> 00:51:50,360
Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's what's happening. It's a series of

803
00:51:50,400 --> 00:51:53,799
Speaker 1: compromises to a greater good and sometimes and you know what,

804
00:51:53,920 --> 00:51:56,919
Speaker 1: in terms of counter terrorism, it seems like the end

805
00:51:57,040 --> 00:52:01,080
Speaker 1: goal just keeps moving, right, there's no a finish line.

806
00:52:02,960 --> 00:52:06,200
Speaker 1: It's not like other nations are necessarily different. We have

807
00:52:06,320 --> 00:52:09,520
Speaker 1: the case of an sacle us here in the US,

808
00:52:09,680 --> 00:52:14,560
Speaker 1: wife of a US diplomat struck and killed a teenager,

809
00:52:14,640 --> 00:52:17,280
Speaker 1: a nineteen year old in the United Kingdom while driving

810
00:52:17,280 --> 00:52:19,719
Speaker 1: on the wrong side of the road. Is not going

811
00:52:19,800 --> 00:52:22,440
Speaker 1: to get in trouble for it whatsoever.

812
00:52:22,880 --> 00:52:26,680
Speaker 4: When you're important and you're wealthy, it really is a

813
00:52:26,719 --> 00:52:27,960
Speaker 4: different system.

814
00:52:28,120 --> 00:52:31,480
Speaker 1: And it's Prince Andrew, Yeah, Prince andrews.

815
00:52:31,719 --> 00:52:36,800
Speaker 4: Oh, yes, I really didn't want to think about him today.

816
00:52:37,600 --> 00:52:37,880
Speaker 2: Sam.

817
00:52:37,920 --> 00:52:41,319
Speaker 1: It's been sorry guys, but that's I mean, that's where

818
00:52:41,320 --> 00:52:44,040
Speaker 1: we're at. And now we want to pass the torch

819
00:52:44,080 --> 00:52:46,759
Speaker 1: to you. What do you think let us know. I mean,

820
00:52:48,320 --> 00:52:53,400
Speaker 1: is it Noel Matt, is it overly cynical or negative

821
00:52:53,480 --> 00:52:56,040
Speaker 1: to say that this is probably going to continue? What

822
00:52:56,440 --> 00:52:57,160
Speaker 1: do you guys think?

823
00:52:57,440 --> 00:53:02,800
Speaker 3: I mean, it's I think realistic based on the patterns

824
00:53:02,800 --> 00:53:05,040
Speaker 3: that we've seen, based on how difficult it is to

825
00:53:05,120 --> 00:53:09,600
Speaker 3: actually enforce this stuff because of the complicity of.

826
00:53:11,280 --> 00:53:13,360
Speaker 2: Folks in power on our side.

827
00:53:13,040 --> 00:53:16,440
Speaker 4: Well, I mean in folks in power everywhere. It's complicity

828
00:53:16,800 --> 00:53:20,480
Speaker 4: across the globe. When there when there's power and strategic

829
00:53:20,560 --> 00:53:25,680
Speaker 4: advantage to being friends, right we we we talked about

830
00:53:26,160 --> 00:53:28,920
Speaker 4: that numerous times. There are no friends in politics in

831
00:53:28,920 --> 00:53:31,640
Speaker 4: this way, but there are, there are strategies, they are allies.

832
00:53:31,680 --> 00:53:34,400
Speaker 4: There are dominoes. They can be set up, and they

833
00:53:34,400 --> 00:53:37,560
Speaker 4: are levers they can be pulled. And when when that

834
00:53:37,760 --> 00:53:42,520
Speaker 4: is so important, specifically the relationship between the United States

835
00:53:42,560 --> 00:53:45,840
Speaker 4: and Saudi Arabia, you know, because of resources, because of

836
00:53:45,920 --> 00:53:50,279
Speaker 4: position where they where they are, the historic wealth that

837
00:53:50,400 --> 00:53:53,120
Speaker 4: exists in the kingdom. I mean, what are you going

838
00:53:53,200 --> 00:53:55,920
Speaker 4: to do? Like you said, Ben, you can't send in

839
00:53:55,960 --> 00:54:01,600
Speaker 4: a team to extract someone. You can really do anything

840
00:54:01,680 --> 00:54:04,800
Speaker 4: besides take a flashlight and shine it on the stuff

841
00:54:04,840 --> 00:54:08,080
Speaker 4: that we know, and hopefully, good God, hopefully that bill

842
00:54:08,280 --> 00:54:12,200
Speaker 4: goes through and at least it will be a known thing.

843
00:54:13,280 --> 00:54:16,600
Speaker 4: But even then people have to care enough to care.

844
00:54:17,360 --> 00:54:20,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, I you know. And one thing that we didn't

845
00:54:20,239 --> 00:54:22,960
Speaker 1: get to, an excellent point you raised, Noal, is that

846
00:54:23,000 --> 00:54:25,040
Speaker 1: there has to be complicity on the US side. I

847
00:54:25,080 --> 00:54:29,160
Speaker 1: would argue, not just the high level stuff. Obviously people

848
00:54:29,239 --> 00:54:33,520
Speaker 1: made a cost benefit analysis there, but but someone has

849
00:54:33,560 --> 00:54:36,960
Speaker 1: to monitor the planes flying in and out right, someone

850
00:54:37,040 --> 00:54:41,840
Speaker 1: works at the airport, you know, someone greenlit this stuff.

851
00:54:41,960 --> 00:54:43,919
Speaker 3: I mean, I remember being on a grounded flight one

852
00:54:43,960 --> 00:54:47,279
Speaker 3: time because of like you know, runway trouble or I

853
00:54:47,280 --> 00:54:48,360
Speaker 3: don't remember exactly what it was.

854
00:54:48,400 --> 00:54:49,560
Speaker 2: Maybe there was a mechanical thing.

855
00:54:50,040 --> 00:54:53,120
Speaker 3: But I got off the plane to like get a snack,

856
00:54:53,560 --> 00:54:56,840
Speaker 3: and they wouldn't let me back on the plane.

857
00:54:56,040 --> 00:54:57,520
Speaker 2: Like until they reboard it.

858
00:54:57,880 --> 00:55:01,319
Speaker 3: Like there are serious guidelines and like regulations that go

859
00:55:01,440 --> 00:55:05,719
Speaker 3: into who can and cannot get back onto planes, you know,

860
00:55:05,840 --> 00:55:10,400
Speaker 3: a procedural kind of situation that is you know, held

861
00:55:10,440 --> 00:55:12,800
Speaker 3: to ironclad by these folks.

862
00:55:12,840 --> 00:55:16,200
Speaker 4: So, but we're talking about private flights, right, We're talking

863
00:55:16,200 --> 00:55:19,880
Speaker 4: about well, like a you know a handful of people

864
00:55:19,920 --> 00:55:20,480
Speaker 4: that are on a.

865
00:55:20,400 --> 00:55:22,000
Speaker 2: Plane, No that's a good point. I didn't even think

866
00:55:22,000 --> 00:55:22,279
Speaker 2: about it.

867
00:55:22,680 --> 00:55:28,440
Speaker 1: Six so six oh, no, I don't have this specific

868
00:55:28,560 --> 00:55:33,759
Speaker 1: to the plane actually right now unless this Declassification Act

869
00:55:33,840 --> 00:55:38,080
Speaker 1: shakes something loose. The official word is we're not sure how.

870
00:55:38,800 --> 00:55:41,040
Speaker 1: We're not sure about those specifics of how people are

871
00:55:41,040 --> 00:55:44,760
Speaker 1: getting out. We haven't been able to find a specific plane,

872
00:55:44,840 --> 00:55:46,960
Speaker 1: a specific airport, a specific routes.

873
00:55:47,200 --> 00:55:49,040
Speaker 4: But yeah, but I mean that's kind of the point.

874
00:55:49,040 --> 00:55:52,279
Speaker 4: If it's a smaller plane on a smaller airport. I mean,

875
00:55:52,480 --> 00:55:55,640
Speaker 4: the amount of complicity that would be necessary from a

876
00:55:55,680 --> 00:55:57,680
Speaker 4: government agency I think would be minimum.

877
00:55:57,760 --> 00:56:00,080
Speaker 2: Now you're spot on there, Matt, I can.

878
00:56:00,239 --> 00:56:03,120
Speaker 1: I've got yeah, I agree. I do have to give

879
00:56:03,160 --> 00:56:06,960
Speaker 1: one shout out so it's not just a terrible negative ending.

880
00:56:07,280 --> 00:56:10,359
Speaker 1: I do have to give one shout out to the

881
00:56:10,400 --> 00:56:13,480
Speaker 1: time that the US said, yes, we will invade your

882
00:56:13,560 --> 00:56:16,920
Speaker 1: country and we will snatch people up and take them back.

883
00:56:17,320 --> 00:56:21,840
Speaker 1: It's not Saudi Arabia, it's the Netherlands. It's the Invade

884
00:56:21,880 --> 00:56:23,960
Speaker 1: the Hague Act. Do you guys remember this one?

885
00:56:24,160 --> 00:56:25,000
Speaker 4: Invade the Hague.

886
00:56:25,960 --> 00:56:28,719
Speaker 1: The American Service Members Protection Act of two thousand and

887
00:56:28,760 --> 00:56:33,600
Speaker 1: two authorizes the use of military force to liberate any

888
00:56:33,760 --> 00:56:37,120
Speaker 1: American or citizen of the US allied country being held

889
00:56:37,760 --> 00:56:40,399
Speaker 1: at the International Criminal Court.

890
00:56:41,680 --> 00:56:42,200
Speaker 2: Wow.

891
00:56:42,520 --> 00:56:45,520
Speaker 1: So the idea is that in that case, the US

892
00:56:45,600 --> 00:56:48,359
Speaker 1: will invade and will extract an individual. But I think

893
00:56:48,400 --> 00:56:52,480
Speaker 1: that's meant to protect various VIPs in the US from

894
00:56:52,680 --> 00:56:54,560
Speaker 1: war crime accusations.

895
00:56:55,120 --> 00:56:57,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, oh my god, that is heinous though.

896
00:56:57,920 --> 00:57:04,080
Speaker 1: Yeah. So the Netherlands technically is number one as far

897
00:57:04,120 --> 00:57:07,320
Speaker 1: as extractions. But now we want to hear from you.

898
00:57:07,480 --> 00:57:13,719
Speaker 1: Let us know it is this calculation brutal, cold though

899
00:57:13,719 --> 00:57:17,040
Speaker 1: it may be, is it ultimately correct? Is there something

900
00:57:17,080 --> 00:57:20,440
Speaker 1: else should that should be done? What should what should

901
00:57:20,440 --> 00:57:22,760
Speaker 1: federal authorities say to the families?

902
00:57:23,360 --> 00:57:23,520
Speaker 4: Right?

903
00:57:23,920 --> 00:57:26,920
Speaker 1: And what does this mean for the future. You can

904
00:57:26,960 --> 00:57:29,000
Speaker 1: find us on Facebook. You can fine us on Instagram,

905
00:57:29,040 --> 00:57:31,080
Speaker 1: you can find us on Twitter. We'd like to recommend.

906
00:57:31,160 --> 00:57:34,320
Speaker 1: Here's where it gets crazy. There is a quiz. Just

907
00:57:34,960 --> 00:57:37,360
Speaker 1: say our names, all of us or one of us.

908
00:57:37,440 --> 00:57:40,400
Speaker 1: Say something. Lets us know you heard the episode. Say

909
00:57:40,400 --> 00:57:44,560
Speaker 1: something ponderful that makes us laugh. Give us your best

910
00:57:44,600 --> 00:57:48,080
Speaker 1: bad dad jokes. But if you don't love social media,

911
00:57:48,120 --> 00:57:49,600
Speaker 1: then you can also just give us a ring.

912
00:57:50,000 --> 00:57:54,320
Speaker 3: Yep, that's one, eight, three three STDWYITK leave us some message?

913
00:57:54,360 --> 00:57:56,560
Speaker 3: Try to keep it brief. If you can fit your

914
00:57:56,600 --> 00:57:59,240
Speaker 3: story into three minutes or less, that is golden on

915
00:57:59,240 --> 00:58:01,600
Speaker 3: our end. And please let us know if you are

916
00:58:01,640 --> 00:58:04,240
Speaker 3: okay with us sharing it, because you may be aware.

917
00:58:04,320 --> 00:58:06,240
Speaker 2: We now do weekly listener.

918
00:58:05,960 --> 00:58:09,640
Speaker 3: Mail shows and these voicemails are a big part of that.

919
00:58:09,640 --> 00:58:14,400
Speaker 4: That's right. And check out YouTube YouTube dot com slash

920
00:58:14,400 --> 00:58:17,840
Speaker 4: conspiracy stuff. Check out all of our videos. They're all

921
00:58:17,880 --> 00:58:22,040
Speaker 4: hanging out there. And watch clips from these episodes of

922
00:58:22,080 --> 00:58:24,640
Speaker 4: the podcast that we're making right now and teaser.

923
00:58:24,800 --> 00:58:27,919
Speaker 1: We have more episodes on the way. We're still working

924
00:58:28,000 --> 00:58:32,520
Speaker 1: during a pandemic. So honestly, our our video team is great.

925
00:58:32,560 --> 00:58:34,720
Speaker 1: We just have to keep uploading these files.

926
00:58:35,120 --> 00:58:37,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, I know mine are still going right now. My

927
00:58:37,640 --> 00:58:40,120
Speaker 4: video files from like the last two weeks are going

928
00:58:40,200 --> 00:58:40,840
Speaker 4: up right now.

929
00:58:41,200 --> 00:58:43,840
Speaker 1: So we have some surprises for you on the way.

930
00:58:43,920 --> 00:58:47,400
Speaker 1: Do tune in. But hey, you might be saying, I

931
00:58:47,600 --> 00:58:51,360
Speaker 1: like YouTube, but those videos aren't up yet. I hate

932
00:58:51,400 --> 00:58:55,560
Speaker 1: phones because it's twenty twenty and calling people is kind

933
00:58:55,640 --> 00:58:58,800
Speaker 1: of offensive. And I don't like social media because I

934
00:58:58,880 --> 00:59:02,080
Speaker 1: listen to your other episodes about how terrible social media is.

935
00:59:02,400 --> 00:59:04,840
Speaker 1: I have something to tell you. How do I talk

936
00:59:04,880 --> 00:59:08,440
Speaker 1: to you? Well, we have good news. You can contact

937
00:59:08,520 --> 00:59:11,920
Speaker 1: us wherever you are, whatever time you wish, whenever the

938
00:59:11,920 --> 00:59:15,080
Speaker 1: spirit moves you at our good old fashioned email address where.

939
00:59:14,880 --> 00:59:36,200
Speaker 3: We are conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

940
00:59:36,360 --> 00:59:38,360
Speaker 4: Stuff they don't want you to know is a production

941
00:59:38,520 --> 00:59:43,080
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942
00:59:43,160 --> 00:59:46,360
Speaker 4: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.