Speaker 1: Previously on Death and Deceit in Alliance.
Speaker 2: And part of me feels like he would have been
Speaker 2: screaming this from the rooftops for a long time if
Speaker 2: that was really the case.
Speaker 1: What are the chances this kind man snaps because Yvonne
Speaker 1: just doesn't want to have sex with him.
Speaker 3: I mean, if I'm sitting here right now, I think
Speaker 3: that Joe had Yeah.
Speaker 2: I think it's tough just to get the words out
Speaker 2: of it.
Speaker 4: I just don't know what to do.
Speaker 1: I don't know what to do.
Speaker 5: I feel like I got like up, I feel like
Speaker 5: I got emotional. I don't know, I'd feel really confused.
Speaker 2: This is emotional word with people's lives.
Speaker 1: I really confused. This is death and Deceit and Alliance
Speaker 1: a real time investigation into whether David Thorne killed Yvonne Lane.
Speaker 1: I'm Maggie freeling.
Speaker 5: Can you describe to me on the take here how
Speaker 5: he treated you on so many incidents that happened while
Speaker 5: you were dating.
Speaker 4: You're worrying, very gressive, very do you?
Speaker 1: Since this is David's ex girlfriend Angie talking to the police.
Speaker 1: She dated David for five years just before David dated
Speaker 1: Yvonne Lane, Angie told police about her harrowing relationship with
Speaker 1: David Thorn.
Speaker 5: One incident will be we got in a big fight
Speaker 5: when you're driving down the road and separate vehicle. He
Speaker 5: got out in his car, pulled a gun on me,
Speaker 5: shout out all four tires in my car, told me
Speaker 5: that I stop the fucking car. He's gonna blow my
Speaker 5: head off. So I did stop the car. The neighbors
Speaker 5: were screaming, frantic, way to call a car because he's
Speaker 5: gonna kill me.
Speaker 4: Another incident would be when.
Speaker 5: We got another big fight and he had me down
Speaker 5: on the bed starting morning mechoking me.
Speaker 4: I could actually feel myself.
Speaker 5: Moving that Petica castle out, so I kicked on that
Speaker 5: away from me and then I left.
Speaker 1: At the beginning of this show, I said I had
Speaker 1: never heard a bad thing about David Thorne, the man
Speaker 1: sentenced to life without parole for the murder of Yvonne.
Speaker 1: The image I'd built up of David in my mind
Speaker 1: was of a nice, good looking twenty something guy who
Speaker 1: liked to help people, was always cheerful, always making jokes.
Speaker 1: He and others said he got along well with his
Speaker 1: ex girlfriend, Yvonne, the mother of his son. The custody
Speaker 1: agent at trials said their shared arrangement was working just
Speaker 1: fine and he was paying support. But then I came
Speaker 1: across Angie. I listened to Angie's interview with the police.
Speaker 1: It shocked me. She proceeded to tell numerous other stories too,
Speaker 1: like one about David smashing her face into a steering
Speaker 1: wheel by her banana clip and an altercation David had
Speaker 1: with her dad. Angie's interview painted a picture of David
Speaker 1: that I was unaware of. A hothead, someone who, if
Speaker 1: Angie's accounts are true, could be violent, very violent to women.
Speaker 4: When's that you start?
Speaker 5: David?
Speaker 4: January nineteen ninety nine.
Speaker 1: Two months before Yvonne was murdered.
Speaker 4: Oh, and what content did you see him?
Speaker 5: I worked at a host warm and he come into
Speaker 5: my form to get his haircut and love talking to
Speaker 5: me about wanting custody of his form. And then he
Speaker 5: had to prove Yevonne and Wayne as an unfit mother
Speaker 5: so that he could get custody of the phone.
Speaker 1: Another person, along with Sam Peg, Joe Wilke's good friend,
Speaker 1: who said that David wanted custody of his son. And
Speaker 1: then we found another person, a friend of David's, who
Speaker 1: told us he remembered times when David was out of control,
Speaker 1: particularly road rage incidents. He told us one time a
Speaker 1: guy got out of his car and started yelling at David.
Speaker 1: David's friend told us David grabbed the other guy's lip
Speaker 1: and took off driving. It's unclear if he actually dragged
Speaker 1: the guy down the road. Not that any of this
Speaker 1: makes him a murderer, but it certainly paints a different
Speaker 1: picture of David than I had previously imagined. These stories
Speaker 1: depict David as someone who can be reckless and violent,
Speaker 1: and it's something we may never have known if we
Speaker 1: didn't stumble on Antie's files. Sue and David certainly were
Speaker 1: not forthcoming about any of this. He was the All
Speaker 1: American choir boy.
Speaker 4: Have you heard about our annoyance?
Speaker 5: Yes?
Speaker 4: And what did you think?
Speaker 5: My first reaction is, oh my god, I'm glad it
Speaker 5: willn't me. And he hate definitely capable of it. I've
Speaker 5: seen it.
Speaker 4: I'm sure I have him.
Speaker 1: Remember, David's credibility is crucial, and so far he hasn't
Speaker 1: been completely honest. He never told me he had a
Speaker 1: girlfriend right before his girlfriend was murdered, who made serious
Speaker 1: abuse allegations against him. In fairness, though I didn't ask him,
Speaker 1: and if they're not true, I could see how he
Speaker 1: wouldn't want to bring attention to it. But there were
Speaker 1: also all the other allegations, So it was time for
Speaker 1: the professionals to finally meet with David. What would you
Speaker 1: tell John and Danny about his capacity for violence?
Speaker 3: We've already found some things that aren't very flattering about
Speaker 3: David that we that he's never disclosed, and I want
Speaker 3: to give him the opportunity to tell us things that
Speaker 3: we already know, just to see if he's going to
Speaker 3: be remotely forthcoming. You know, I think there's a lot
Speaker 3: of questions that have never been asked of him, So
Speaker 3: we're going to have to ask him some of those
Speaker 3: those about who he was at the time. I don't
Speaker 3: want him to try to bullshit us.
Speaker 1: They wanted to know about the real David Good, Bad, Ugly.
Speaker 1: The guys told him this point blank in one of
Speaker 1: their previous phone conversations before the visit.
Speaker 6: Here's my thoughts. We approached hims like, if we were
Speaker 6: the prosecutors, knowing that this is coming, what would we
Speaker 6: be out doing to attack what investigators John and mag
Speaker 6: and Daney are coming up with?
Speaker 2: Right now, yeah, let's just pretend.
Speaker 1: Basically, they told David that in order to help him,
Speaker 1: they needed to know everything so that there are no
Speaker 1: surprises that could hinder his investigation and potential case, for example,
Speaker 1: properly preparing for attacks and character assassinations if he goes
Speaker 1: back to court. Maybe if I had point blank asked David,
Speaker 1: have you ever been violent with anyone? He would have
Speaker 1: told me about some of this. So maybe when the
Speaker 1: guys do ask those questions point blank, he will tell
Speaker 1: them the truth so we can all move past it
Speaker 1: and to points of actual innocence. But they needed to
Speaker 1: hear that from David first. They needed him to be honest.
Speaker 3: I do want him to not bullshit us with who
Speaker 3: he was back then. So if he out of the gate,
Speaker 3: you know, tells us things that he was involved in,
Speaker 3: things that we know about, things that we don't know about,
Speaker 3: then I'll be more apt to listen to him as
Speaker 3: he's telling us things about this case.
Speaker 1: We arrive at the prison and the guys go in,
Speaker 1: leaving me in the rental car once again. While waiting,
Speaker 1: I take a joy ride. The area around prison is
Speaker 1: actually quite beautiful, and that's always struck me prisons are
Speaker 1: usually in rural, tucked away places, intentionally hard to get
Speaker 1: to and hidden from the world. The guy's finally surfaced
Speaker 1: a few hours later and hopped in the car. Danny
Speaker 1: noticed I drove. I was driving.
Speaker 3: She's like three feet tall, Danny. Of course it's going
Speaker 3: to be different.
Speaker 1: Listen, I didn't move the other mirrors. I was really
Speaker 1: trying to be respectful of Danny's driving.
Speaker 4: You're fine, you can get out of Danny Danny table. Okay,
Speaker 4: So what happened?
Speaker 1: Tell me everything. Unlike the visit with Joe, with David,
Speaker 1: the guys were actually able to take notes an official
Speaker 1: legal visit, meaning note taking was allowed last time. Remember,
Speaker 1: John and Danny had to relate everything back to me
Speaker 1: from their memory. So where did he say he was
Speaker 1: the thirty first? When Joe says he was brought to
Speaker 1: them all by fish, right, that's what he told me,
Speaker 1: buying fish. Yeah, remember that on the thirty first, the
Speaker 1: day we believe Yvonne was murdered. According to David's work
Speaker 1: time card, he got off work at around twelve twenty
Speaker 1: nine pm, earlier than usual. David's grandfather testified that David
Speaker 1: got home from work around four PM that day, So
Speaker 1: what was David doing from twelve thirty to four? David
Speaker 1: said he was buying fish and cleaning big cat cages,
Speaker 1: something that wasn't able to be cooperated and the prosecution
Speaker 1: said during this time, David was bringing Joe to the
Speaker 1: mall to get his hotel room, and Joe has said
Speaker 1: that too in certain versions of his events.
Speaker 2: He acknowledged that he would have left at noon that day,
Speaker 2: but can't explain anything really again, until.
Speaker 1: The guys continued to ask David about the thirty first,
Speaker 1: the night Yvonne was murdered. They wanted David to tell
Speaker 1: them how he and Joe wound up together that evening, because,
Speaker 1: remember the Enox testified Joe and David were together around
Speaker 1: five pm in the Enox driveway with the Lion cub
Speaker 1: before David went to shoot fighting and Brett Enoch drove
Speaker 1: Joe to the mall. No matter how many times or
Speaker 1: ways the guys said they asked, David continually left out
Speaker 1: that he was with Joe at least briefly on the
Speaker 1: thirty first, the day Yvonne was murdered.
Speaker 2: And then we're like, well, wait a second, you're in
Speaker 2: the Enox front yard with a fucking cat? How did
Speaker 2: that happen if Joe?
Speaker 1: David had repeatedly told me that he wasn't really friends
Speaker 1: with Joe. Mainly he said he was only with Joe
Speaker 1: when he saw him around town asking for a ride.
Speaker 1: But we also found some incident reports of David's run
Speaker 1: ins with the law, and one even mentions Joe Wilkes
Speaker 1: being present. It seems like David knew Joe much better
Speaker 1: than just a guy around town.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he just wanted to minimize how much he knew
Speaker 3: Joe's life and how much he was around Joe.
Speaker 6: The tactic was to make sure he knew we knew
Speaker 6: you are with Joe the evening that Ivonne later dies.
Speaker 1: The guys told me, Once David realized he could not
Speaker 1: get around being with Joe the evening of the thirty first,
Speaker 1: he then incorporated Joe back into the story.
Speaker 3: Then he goes and he's at the drive through of
Speaker 3: bo Bob's Whore What at Bob's Fizza? And he looks
Speaker 3: up and all of a sudden, there's Joe waving at
Speaker 3: him and says, hey, you know what are you doing? Oh?
Speaker 3: This is where I'm staying. Here's the driveway, pull in here,
Speaker 3: and he said, I had no idea that he was
Speaker 3: staying at the Enix. It was pure coincidence.
Speaker 1: In the past, when David explained how he wound up
Speaker 1: with Joe that evening, his official written out timeline was
Speaker 1: that he just saw him walking and picked him up.
Speaker 1: No mention of Bob's pizza. Could he be confused, Sure,
Speaker 1: but it's hard for me to get past that. If
Speaker 1: you're innocent, you don't know backwards and forwards the day
Speaker 1: that ruined your life exactly to a t what you
Speaker 1: were doing, especially when you were brought into the police
Speaker 1: station two days later as a person of interest. This
Speaker 1: was not weeks later. I believe that story would solidify
Speaker 1: in your brain.
Speaker 3: You know, we know memories aren't tape recorders. Just tell
Speaker 3: us what you do remember And.
Speaker 7: And he left out the person that is responsible for
Speaker 7: him sitting in that jail. He completely without prompting, he
Speaker 7: was not going to bring up the fact that he
Speaker 7: was with Joe at the Enix.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they asked David about what Sam Peig said. Remember,
Speaker 1: she's one of Joe's best friends, and she told us
Speaker 1: that Joe had repeatedly told her before the murder that
Speaker 1: David wanted Yvonne gone.
Speaker 3: You know, some weeks leading up to the murder, Joe
Speaker 3: was saying that you were telling him that you wanted of.
Speaker 4: On gone It's.
Speaker 3: And I said, a point blank did that happen? No?
Speaker 3: That was the other place where I put in my notes.
Speaker 3: He said no, and then he immediately goes into how
Speaker 3: pitiful Joe is, And so I wrote my notes, changed
Speaker 3: subject quickly.
Speaker 1: So the guy's pivoted to the test.
Speaker 3: So I said, okay, who are you before all of
Speaker 3: this happened, you know, and one to tell him to
Speaker 3: tell us good things, which he did, only tell us
Speaker 3: good things. I was a great friend. I was loyal,
Speaker 3: you know, you know, I could be a little bit
Speaker 3: of a knuckleab whatever. And so they're like, okay, well,
Speaker 3: what trouble did?
Speaker 4: Was there any trouble?
Speaker 3: I got a few speeding tickets, Danny, you know, says
Speaker 3: little tell us about this broken window thing and.
Speaker 1: One of the incident reports we found.
Speaker 3: Then he tells us about that, and you know, we
Speaker 3: go on and and well what else, you know, what
Speaker 3: other kind of stuff did you get into? And you know,
Speaker 3: every fucking thing that we mentioned, Well, what about you? Know,
Speaker 3: did you did you kick somebody's door? Oh yeah, I
Speaker 3: did that.
Speaker 2: When it wasn't offering, we had to hit him with
Speaker 2: what we knew.
Speaker 3: Yes, and once he knew.
Speaker 2: We knew, then he did, oh yeah, that's true.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: And if it's like, okay, what else, well did you
Speaker 3: you know you grab somebody's lip?
Speaker 4: And oh yeah, I did do that, the guy said.
Speaker 1: Once they told him that he did it and they
Speaker 1: knew he did, then he'd admit to these things. But
Speaker 1: it was always someone else's fault.
Speaker 4: It's never him.
Speaker 1: It's always somebody else.
Speaker 4: That's exactly right and everything. It can't be always somebody.
Speaker 3: Exactly every every altercation that we were able to pull
Speaker 3: out of him, it was somebody else's fault. You know, I.
Speaker 5: Just kind of key on.
Speaker 3: It was really something to me that we gave him
Speaker 3: plenty of opportunities, like, dude, good, bad or ugly, you know,
Speaker 3: tell us what your life was like, what you were
Speaker 3: involved in, any trouble you got in. I got a
Speaker 3: few speeding tickets, and that was all he was going
Speaker 3: to say. He didn't volunteer a single thing, did he
Speaker 3: As far as like any of those incidents.
Speaker 1: I'm going to play chunks of the conversation we had,
Speaker 1: but know that we were driving in the background. Noise
Speaker 1: changes from one moment to the next.
Speaker 3: Still, everything that we got out of him was because
Speaker 3: we knew ahead of time what these accusations were. He
Speaker 3: did not volunteer a motherfucking things.
Speaker 2: Like prosecutors are taught, never ask a question that you
Speaker 2: don't already know the answer.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's what we did.
Speaker 2: It only as we asked, did he give them yep.
Speaker 4: Only he was.
Speaker 3: Going to leave it as I got a few speeding tickets.
Speaker 4: That was that.
Speaker 3: That's where he wanted to leave it. That was his answer.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: And we even let a let a pause sit there
Speaker 3: for a little bit where nobody said anything like what
Speaker 3: about shooting out the car? Yeah, I had to do that.
Speaker 1: Remember the allegation from his ex girlfriend Angie that he
Speaker 1: shot out her four tires.
Speaker 3: Only one time, only one tires and it was my car.
Speaker 2: But he did.
Speaker 3: He denied choking her, he denied pulling her hair and
Speaker 3: hitting her head into the.
Speaker 1: Steeas he denied it all. I felt defeated. I'd put
Speaker 1: so much time into this and so much of my
Speaker 1: credibility and emotion, But this time at least I was
Speaker 1: ready for it. I asked the guys to give it
Speaker 1: to me straight. Did they think they could take David's case?
Speaker 2: You know, you know when you leave an interview and
Speaker 2: you feel like you've shared more information than the person
Speaker 2: who's fighting for their life, there's a reason behind that,
Speaker 2: and we he is.
Speaker 1: There or is he an idiot?
Speaker 5: Could be?
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, David's a charismatic guy and a
Speaker 3: slick talker, but I'm not going to say that he's
Speaker 3: a brain surgeon. You know he's because you know, I
Speaker 3: don't know, Well, are.
Speaker 4: You picking up on these David Koresh vibes.
Speaker 2: I've picked up on this vibe, the flutter and the grin.
Speaker 4: He's not having to.
Speaker 2: Make direct contact with someone because I feel like that's
Speaker 2: his way with him handling uncomfortable or sensitive discussions. He
Speaker 2: did it throughout that interview because he was so by
Speaker 2: the first ten minutes, twenty minutes, it was so obvious
Speaker 2: to me that as things first twenty minutes we were
Speaker 2: talking about prison.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, it was.
Speaker 2: But as we started to engage in sensitive areas and
Speaker 2: I watched his facial mannerisms, that was like, it's almost
Speaker 2: like watching someone on a polygraph, on a control question,
Speaker 2: and then a.
Speaker 4: Rational question.
Speaker 5: Right.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's easy to say, yes, my name is Danny,
Speaker 2: Yes I'm from Austin, Texas or whatever. But then did
Speaker 2: you kill her? It was the same way when we
Speaker 2: got into sensitive areas. His head would drop a little bit,
Speaker 2: his eyes would flow, its blinking was delayed, and he
Speaker 2: would grin as he gave this, oh that snow, big
Speaker 2: deal kind of answer. Did you notice it like that job?
Speaker 3: Yeah? I did.
Speaker 1: So you're saying that's weird. And it wasn't only that
Speaker 1: David couldn't be straight about his violent past.
Speaker 2: He could produce nothing, could not be refuge our suspicions.
Speaker 2: Our biggest issue is we could never detach Joe from
Speaker 2: Vonn's house. And we know that at five o'clock that night,
Speaker 2: you were with Joe, as shitty as he was, as
Speaker 2: messed up as his life was. At five o'clock, you
Speaker 2: were in the front yard of the home he was
Speaker 2: living in, showing off a tiger, and a few hours
Speaker 2: later she's dead. That's our problem.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and what did you say?
Speaker 2: He had nothing?
Speaker 5: Nothing?
Speaker 2: He had nothing.
Speaker 1: I had hoped when the guys met David, he'd fight
Speaker 1: for his life with everything he had to prove his innocence.
Speaker 1: But that doesn't seem like what happened at all.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 3: I don't want to make it all sound bad and
Speaker 3: horrible or anything like that, but there the overall thing
Speaker 3: was not really good. He knows what's happening right now.
Speaker 3: He knows that he's got to be forthcoming. I made
Speaker 3: that clear to him from the very beginning.
Speaker 1: And he wasn't. So that led the guys to a
Speaker 1: conclusion about whether they can continue the investigation, continue to
Speaker 1: invest time and money.
Speaker 3: Answer those questions. I told him that straight up.
Speaker 1: You just weren't truthful. Yeah, you omitted information. We can't
Speaker 1: do it if you're going to be like that.
Speaker 3: And it never would have even come up. He would have,
Speaker 3: you know, had had the three of us not been
Speaker 3: on the ground and learn what we learned. And there's
Speaker 3: part of me that wants to take up for Joe if,
Speaker 3: in my heart of hearts, I believe that David had
Speaker 3: something to do with that. Part of me wants to
Speaker 3: take up for Joe because you know, everybody believes in
Speaker 3: David and Joe's the bad guy, and if David had
Speaker 3: something to do with that that's completely unfair to Joe.
Speaker 1: Then you know what's next. There's always a bombshell. The
Speaker 1: guys told me some information that floored me. David always
Speaker 1: gave me the impression he didn't know about Yvonne's sex
Speaker 1: work until trial. But then I saw his girlfriend's grand
Speaker 1: jury testimony saying David told her Yvonne quote had a
Speaker 1: drug problem and was a quote prostitute. And there's also
Speaker 1: David's grandfather telling the grand jury quote she was a
Speaker 1: high priced call girl. I circled back to David. How
Speaker 1: could people in his life know about the sex work
Speaker 1: if he himself hadn't told them about it. He said, okay,
Speaker 1: he knew, but only after they broke up. It seemed
Speaker 1: we were both confused, so I never could get a
Speaker 1: clear answer. But I never really thought it was important,
Speaker 1: just odd, so I let it be. But because it
Speaker 1: was odd, I mentioned it to the guys and they
Speaker 1: figured if it was odd to me, maybe it meant something.
Speaker 1: So they asked David the sex work and stuff.
Speaker 3: Oh, he knew all about that. He took her to
Speaker 3: He took her to West Virginia because she was going
Speaker 3: to be an escort at these things. What the fucking
Speaker 3: full well, knowing full well that's what she was going
Speaker 3: to do.
Speaker 2: But yes, he was like, yeah, I just like I
Speaker 2: know she's doing. He's going to drop her off and
Speaker 2: just get it out of my mind.
Speaker 1: The guys said that he told them he knew exactly
Speaker 1: why she was going, and when they asked how he
Speaker 1: felt about it, he explained that he just had to
Speaker 1: put it out of his mind and move on. Remember
Speaker 1: this is what David told me. What did you think
Speaker 1: she was doing when she was going to the conventions?
Speaker 8: He chip talking that she got an office job and
Speaker 8: she was going to a convention for something that doll.
Speaker 8: I don't recall what it was, to be honest, it
Speaker 8: was only a half tin of attention to what it
Speaker 8: was that she was even talking about For a job.
Speaker 1: He claimed he didn't know and didn't ask. I was furious,
Speaker 1: So then why did he lie to me?
Speaker 3: We don't have to ask him that I don't know?
Speaker 1: And I did. That's next time on the finale of
Speaker 1: Death and Deceit and Alliance. Coming up on Death and
Speaker 1: Deceit and Alliance, I.
Speaker 8: Told him, I said, I don't know exactly what time
Speaker 8: that I was there other than that I never said
Speaker 8: I wasn't there, David.
Speaker 1: You had to have thought about that day a million times.
Speaker 1: That's the day that put you in prison.
Speaker 2: Whether David would go up to it or not.
Speaker 3: Finding the nuggets David a chance.
Speaker 2: It's just getting harder to find. I mean, we've turned
Speaker 2: over enough stones to where there's only a sea left
Speaker 2: and that.
Speaker 3: There's nothing under the remaining stones.
Speaker 1: Well, they had to pull information out of you.
Speaker 8: Yeah, but I don't know what it is that you
Speaker 8: want me to say to you unless.
Speaker 4: You ask me the question the timeline of your day?
Speaker 1: They said, what is the timeline of your day? You
Speaker 1: know you're at the Enoch. Why didn't you put that
Speaker 1: in your timeline?
Speaker 2: If Chris Campbell stands by the story, if Sam stands
Speaker 2: by the story, do you have contemporaneous and continuing.
Speaker 4: Verification, and then we have a hidden domestic.
Speaker 2: Violence situation which was violent.
Speaker 4: Only shed.
Speaker 1: Death and deceit. In Alliance is produced and reported by
Speaker 1: me Maggie Freeling, with editorial consulting from Amber Hunt. Aaron
Speaker 1: Case is our legal researcher. Our executive producer is Steve Fishman.
Speaker 1: Our engineer and production coordinator is Austin Smith. Eric axelrod
Speaker 1: Is our assistant producer.