1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,240 Speaker 1: Previously on Death and Deceit in Alliance. 2 00:00:03,080 --> 00:00:06,400 Speaker 2: And part of me feels like he would have been 3 00:00:06,519 --> 00:00:12,440 Speaker 2: screaming this from the rooftops for a long time if 4 00:00:12,440 --> 00:00:13,800 Speaker 2: that was really the case. 5 00:00:14,080 --> 00:00:22,400 Speaker 1: What are the chances this kind man snaps because Yvonne 6 00:00:22,640 --> 00:00:24,000 Speaker 1: just doesn't want to have sex with him. 7 00:00:24,200 --> 00:00:26,680 Speaker 3: I mean, if I'm sitting here right now, I think 8 00:00:26,720 --> 00:00:28,360 Speaker 3: that Joe had Yeah. 9 00:00:30,400 --> 00:00:32,839 Speaker 2: I think it's tough just to get the words out 10 00:00:32,840 --> 00:00:33,160 Speaker 2: of it. 11 00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:34,040 Speaker 4: I just don't know what to do. 12 00:00:34,280 --> 00:00:35,000 Speaker 1: I don't know what to do. 13 00:00:35,040 --> 00:00:37,559 Speaker 5: I feel like I got like up, I feel like 14 00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:41,560 Speaker 5: I got emotional. I don't know, I'd feel really confused. 15 00:00:41,800 --> 00:00:44,880 Speaker 2: This is emotional word with people's lives. 16 00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:56,880 Speaker 1: I really confused. This is death and Deceit and Alliance 17 00:00:57,280 --> 00:01:02,760 Speaker 1: a real time investigation into whether David Thorne killed Yvonne Lane. 18 00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:04,320 Speaker 1: I'm Maggie freeling. 19 00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:12,520 Speaker 5: Can you describe to me on the take here how 20 00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:15,520 Speaker 5: he treated you on so many incidents that happened while 21 00:01:15,520 --> 00:01:16,039 Speaker 5: you were dating. 22 00:01:17,160 --> 00:01:20,240 Speaker 4: You're worrying, very gressive, very do you? 23 00:01:20,400 --> 00:01:25,080 Speaker 1: Since this is David's ex girlfriend Angie talking to the police. 24 00:01:25,520 --> 00:01:28,880 Speaker 1: She dated David for five years just before David dated 25 00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:34,000 Speaker 1: Yvonne Lane, Angie told police about her harrowing relationship with 26 00:01:34,080 --> 00:01:34,760 Speaker 1: David Thorn. 27 00:01:35,240 --> 00:01:38,479 Speaker 5: One incident will be we got in a big fight 28 00:01:40,040 --> 00:01:44,000 Speaker 5: when you're driving down the road and separate vehicle. He 29 00:01:44,160 --> 00:01:46,760 Speaker 5: got out in his car, pulled a gun on me, 30 00:01:47,520 --> 00:01:50,880 Speaker 5: shout out all four tires in my car, told me 31 00:01:50,920 --> 00:01:53,720 Speaker 5: that I stop the fucking car. He's gonna blow my 32 00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:58,240 Speaker 5: head off. So I did stop the car. The neighbors 33 00:01:58,280 --> 00:02:00,720 Speaker 5: were screaming, frantic, way to call a car because he's 34 00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:01,320 Speaker 5: gonna kill me. 35 00:02:04,720 --> 00:02:06,760 Speaker 4: Another incident would be when. 36 00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:11,560 Speaker 5: We got another big fight and he had me down 37 00:02:11,600 --> 00:02:13,960 Speaker 5: on the bed starting morning mechoking me. 38 00:02:14,840 --> 00:02:17,440 Speaker 4: I could actually feel myself. 39 00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:23,120 Speaker 5: Moving that Petica castle out, so I kicked on that 40 00:02:23,320 --> 00:02:24,880 Speaker 5: away from me and then I left. 41 00:02:25,919 --> 00:02:28,119 Speaker 1: At the beginning of this show, I said I had 42 00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:31,160 Speaker 1: never heard a bad thing about David Thorne, the man 43 00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:34,399 Speaker 1: sentenced to life without parole for the murder of Yvonne. 44 00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:37,080 Speaker 1: The image I'd built up of David in my mind 45 00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:40,200 Speaker 1: was of a nice, good looking twenty something guy who 46 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:43,640 Speaker 1: liked to help people, was always cheerful, always making jokes. 47 00:02:43,960 --> 00:02:45,960 Speaker 1: He and others said he got along well with his 48 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:49,160 Speaker 1: ex girlfriend, Yvonne, the mother of his son. The custody 49 00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:52,320 Speaker 1: agent at trials said their shared arrangement was working just 50 00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:55,680 Speaker 1: fine and he was paying support. But then I came 51 00:02:55,720 --> 00:02:59,200 Speaker 1: across Angie. I listened to Angie's interview with the police. 52 00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:04,360 Speaker 1: It shocked me. She proceeded to tell numerous other stories too, 53 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:08,280 Speaker 1: like one about David smashing her face into a steering 54 00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:11,760 Speaker 1: wheel by her banana clip and an altercation David had 55 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:15,000 Speaker 1: with her dad. Angie's interview painted a picture of David 56 00:03:15,080 --> 00:03:18,919 Speaker 1: that I was unaware of. A hothead, someone who, if 57 00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:24,000 Speaker 1: Angie's accounts are true, could be violent, very violent to women. 58 00:03:24,880 --> 00:03:26,560 Speaker 4: When's that you start? 59 00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:26,960 Speaker 5: David? 60 00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:31,760 Speaker 4: January nineteen ninety nine. 61 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:32,920 Speaker 1: Two months before Yvonne was murdered. 62 00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:36,560 Speaker 4: Oh, and what content did you see him? 63 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:38,360 Speaker 5: I worked at a host warm and he come into 64 00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:42,040 Speaker 5: my form to get his haircut and love talking to 65 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:46,520 Speaker 5: me about wanting custody of his form. And then he 66 00:03:46,600 --> 00:03:49,720 Speaker 5: had to prove Yevonne and Wayne as an unfit mother 67 00:03:49,800 --> 00:03:51,440 Speaker 5: so that he could get custody of the phone. 68 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:55,720 Speaker 1: Another person, along with Sam Peg, Joe Wilke's good friend, 69 00:03:56,000 --> 00:03:59,520 Speaker 1: who said that David wanted custody of his son. And 70 00:03:59,600 --> 00:04:03,280 Speaker 1: then we found another person, a friend of David's, who 71 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:07,080 Speaker 1: told us he remembered times when David was out of control, 72 00:04:07,320 --> 00:04:11,280 Speaker 1: particularly road rage incidents. He told us one time a 73 00:04:11,320 --> 00:04:14,080 Speaker 1: guy got out of his car and started yelling at David. 74 00:04:14,520 --> 00:04:17,680 Speaker 1: David's friend told us David grabbed the other guy's lip 75 00:04:17,760 --> 00:04:21,599 Speaker 1: and took off driving. It's unclear if he actually dragged 76 00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:24,359 Speaker 1: the guy down the road. Not that any of this 77 00:04:24,440 --> 00:04:27,560 Speaker 1: makes him a murderer, but it certainly paints a different 78 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:31,520 Speaker 1: picture of David than I had previously imagined. These stories 79 00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:34,839 Speaker 1: depict David as someone who can be reckless and violent, 80 00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:38,600 Speaker 1: and it's something we may never have known if we 81 00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:43,480 Speaker 1: didn't stumble on Antie's files. Sue and David certainly were 82 00:04:43,520 --> 00:04:46,800 Speaker 1: not forthcoming about any of this. He was the All 83 00:04:46,839 --> 00:04:48,120 Speaker 1: American choir boy. 84 00:04:49,240 --> 00:04:51,320 Speaker 4: Have you heard about our annoyance? 85 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:51,760 Speaker 5: Yes? 86 00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:54,440 Speaker 4: And what did you think? 87 00:04:55,960 --> 00:04:58,240 Speaker 5: My first reaction is, oh my god, I'm glad it 88 00:04:58,279 --> 00:05:02,800 Speaker 5: willn't me. And he hate definitely capable of it. I've 89 00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:03,280 Speaker 5: seen it. 90 00:05:04,120 --> 00:05:05,880 Speaker 4: I'm sure I have him. 91 00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:11,359 Speaker 1: Remember, David's credibility is crucial, and so far he hasn't 92 00:05:11,440 --> 00:05:15,320 Speaker 1: been completely honest. He never told me he had a 93 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:18,919 Speaker 1: girlfriend right before his girlfriend was murdered, who made serious 94 00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:23,039 Speaker 1: abuse allegations against him. In fairness, though I didn't ask him, 95 00:05:23,400 --> 00:05:26,080 Speaker 1: and if they're not true, I could see how he 96 00:05:26,120 --> 00:05:29,240 Speaker 1: wouldn't want to bring attention to it. But there were 97 00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:33,599 Speaker 1: also all the other allegations, So it was time for 98 00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:38,520 Speaker 1: the professionals to finally meet with David. What would you 99 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:41,840 Speaker 1: tell John and Danny about his capacity for violence? 100 00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:50,880 Speaker 3: We've already found some things that aren't very flattering about 101 00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:54,520 Speaker 3: David that we that he's never disclosed, and I want 102 00:05:54,560 --> 00:05:56,880 Speaker 3: to give him the opportunity to tell us things that 103 00:05:56,880 --> 00:06:00,359 Speaker 3: we already know, just to see if he's going to 104 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:07,320 Speaker 3: be remotely forthcoming. You know, I think there's a lot 105 00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:11,600 Speaker 3: of questions that have never been asked of him, So 106 00:06:12,279 --> 00:06:14,000 Speaker 3: we're going to have to ask him some of those 107 00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:17,479 Speaker 3: those about who he was at the time. I don't 108 00:06:17,520 --> 00:06:19,720 Speaker 3: want him to try to bullshit us. 109 00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:24,039 Speaker 1: They wanted to know about the real David Good, Bad, Ugly. 110 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:26,720 Speaker 1: The guys told him this point blank in one of 111 00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:29,400 Speaker 1: their previous phone conversations before the visit. 112 00:06:29,480 --> 00:06:32,039 Speaker 6: Here's my thoughts. We approached hims like, if we were 113 00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:37,279 Speaker 6: the prosecutors, knowing that this is coming, what would we 114 00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:44,520 Speaker 6: be out doing to attack what investigators John and mag 115 00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:46,039 Speaker 6: and Daney are coming up with? 116 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:48,200 Speaker 2: Right now, yeah, let's just pretend. 117 00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:51,760 Speaker 1: Basically, they told David that in order to help him, 118 00:06:51,880 --> 00:06:54,480 Speaker 1: they needed to know everything so that there are no 119 00:06:54,600 --> 00:06:59,719 Speaker 1: surprises that could hinder his investigation and potential case, for example, 120 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:04,440 Speaker 1: properly preparing for attacks and character assassinations if he goes 121 00:07:04,480 --> 00:07:08,480 Speaker 1: back to court. Maybe if I had point blank asked David, 122 00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:11,880 Speaker 1: have you ever been violent with anyone? He would have 123 00:07:11,960 --> 00:07:15,200 Speaker 1: told me about some of this. So maybe when the 124 00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:18,520 Speaker 1: guys do ask those questions point blank, he will tell 125 00:07:18,560 --> 00:07:20,800 Speaker 1: them the truth so we can all move past it 126 00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:24,680 Speaker 1: and to points of actual innocence. But they needed to 127 00:07:24,680 --> 00:07:37,680 Speaker 1: hear that from David first. They needed him to be honest. 128 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:44,320 Speaker 3: I do want him to not bullshit us with who 129 00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:47,440 Speaker 3: he was back then. So if he out of the gate, 130 00:07:49,320 --> 00:07:53,120 Speaker 3: you know, tells us things that he was involved in, 131 00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:56,120 Speaker 3: things that we know about, things that we don't know about, 132 00:07:57,880 --> 00:08:01,160 Speaker 3: then I'll be more apt to listen to him as 133 00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:02,960 Speaker 3: he's telling us things about this case. 134 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:11,480 Speaker 1: We arrive at the prison and the guys go in, 135 00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:14,680 Speaker 1: leaving me in the rental car once again. While waiting, 136 00:08:14,760 --> 00:08:17,760 Speaker 1: I take a joy ride. The area around prison is 137 00:08:17,840 --> 00:08:22,200 Speaker 1: actually quite beautiful, and that's always struck me prisons are 138 00:08:22,320 --> 00:08:26,640 Speaker 1: usually in rural, tucked away places, intentionally hard to get 139 00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:30,480 Speaker 1: to and hidden from the world. The guy's finally surfaced 140 00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:33,120 Speaker 1: a few hours later and hopped in the car. Danny 141 00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:35,520 Speaker 1: noticed I drove. I was driving. 142 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:39,880 Speaker 3: She's like three feet tall, Danny. Of course it's going 143 00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:40,559 Speaker 3: to be different. 144 00:08:40,760 --> 00:08:43,240 Speaker 1: Listen, I didn't move the other mirrors. I was really 145 00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:45,560 Speaker 1: trying to be respectful of Danny's driving. 146 00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:49,880 Speaker 4: You're fine, you can get out of Danny Danny table. Okay, 147 00:08:49,960 --> 00:08:50,600 Speaker 4: So what happened? 148 00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:57,200 Speaker 1: Tell me everything. Unlike the visit with Joe, with David, 149 00:08:57,320 --> 00:09:00,640 Speaker 1: the guys were actually able to take notes an official 150 00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:05,240 Speaker 1: legal visit, meaning note taking was allowed last time. Remember, 151 00:09:05,320 --> 00:09:08,000 Speaker 1: John and Danny had to relate everything back to me 152 00:09:08,440 --> 00:09:12,720 Speaker 1: from their memory. So where did he say he was 153 00:09:12,760 --> 00:09:14,800 Speaker 1: the thirty first? When Joe says he was brought to 154 00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:16,880 Speaker 1: them all by fish, right, that's what he told me, 155 00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:20,400 Speaker 1: buying fish. Yeah, remember that on the thirty first, the 156 00:09:20,520 --> 00:09:23,600 Speaker 1: day we believe Yvonne was murdered. According to David's work 157 00:09:23,679 --> 00:09:26,520 Speaker 1: time card, he got off work at around twelve twenty 158 00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:31,320 Speaker 1: nine pm, earlier than usual. David's grandfather testified that David 159 00:09:31,320 --> 00:09:34,160 Speaker 1: got home from work around four PM that day, So 160 00:09:34,480 --> 00:09:38,880 Speaker 1: what was David doing from twelve thirty to four? David 161 00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:42,080 Speaker 1: said he was buying fish and cleaning big cat cages, 162 00:09:42,400 --> 00:09:46,839 Speaker 1: something that wasn't able to be cooperated and the prosecution 163 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:50,040 Speaker 1: said during this time, David was bringing Joe to the 164 00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:52,960 Speaker 1: mall to get his hotel room, and Joe has said 165 00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:55,880 Speaker 1: that too in certain versions of his events. 166 00:09:56,280 --> 00:09:58,920 Speaker 2: He acknowledged that he would have left at noon that day, 167 00:10:01,280 --> 00:10:04,520 Speaker 2: but can't explain anything really again, until. 168 00:10:04,880 --> 00:10:07,560 Speaker 1: The guys continued to ask David about the thirty first, 169 00:10:07,800 --> 00:10:10,760 Speaker 1: the night Yvonne was murdered. They wanted David to tell 170 00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:14,079 Speaker 1: them how he and Joe wound up together that evening, because, 171 00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:17,920 Speaker 1: remember the Enox testified Joe and David were together around 172 00:10:17,960 --> 00:10:21,760 Speaker 1: five pm in the Enox driveway with the Lion cub 173 00:10:21,960 --> 00:10:25,560 Speaker 1: before David went to shoot fighting and Brett Enoch drove 174 00:10:25,679 --> 00:10:29,120 Speaker 1: Joe to the mall. No matter how many times or 175 00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:33,240 Speaker 1: ways the guys said they asked, David continually left out 176 00:10:33,320 --> 00:10:36,240 Speaker 1: that he was with Joe at least briefly on the 177 00:10:36,280 --> 00:10:38,959 Speaker 1: thirty first, the day Yvonne was murdered. 178 00:10:39,520 --> 00:10:42,160 Speaker 2: And then we're like, well, wait a second, you're in 179 00:10:42,160 --> 00:10:45,440 Speaker 2: the Enox front yard with a fucking cat? How did 180 00:10:45,440 --> 00:10:46,480 Speaker 2: that happen if Joe? 181 00:10:46,800 --> 00:10:49,840 Speaker 1: David had repeatedly told me that he wasn't really friends 182 00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:52,960 Speaker 1: with Joe. Mainly he said he was only with Joe 183 00:10:52,960 --> 00:10:55,360 Speaker 1: when he saw him around town asking for a ride. 184 00:10:55,840 --> 00:10:59,319 Speaker 1: But we also found some incident reports of David's run 185 00:10:59,360 --> 00:11:02,479 Speaker 1: ins with the law, and one even mentions Joe Wilkes 186 00:11:02,520 --> 00:11:07,000 Speaker 1: being present. It seems like David knew Joe much better 187 00:11:07,280 --> 00:11:08,679 Speaker 1: than just a guy around town. 188 00:11:08,840 --> 00:11:11,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, he just wanted to minimize how much he knew 189 00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:14,080 Speaker 3: Joe's life and how much he was around Joe. 190 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:17,520 Speaker 6: The tactic was to make sure he knew we knew 191 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:21,960 Speaker 6: you are with Joe the evening that Ivonne later dies. 192 00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:24,680 Speaker 1: The guys told me, Once David realized he could not 193 00:11:24,920 --> 00:11:27,880 Speaker 1: get around being with Joe the evening of the thirty first, 194 00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:32,120 Speaker 1: he then incorporated Joe back into the story. 195 00:11:32,760 --> 00:11:36,599 Speaker 3: Then he goes and he's at the drive through of 196 00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:41,640 Speaker 3: bo Bob's Whore What at Bob's Fizza? And he looks 197 00:11:41,720 --> 00:11:43,760 Speaker 3: up and all of a sudden, there's Joe waving at 198 00:11:43,840 --> 00:11:47,120 Speaker 3: him and says, hey, you know what are you doing? Oh? 199 00:11:47,280 --> 00:11:49,520 Speaker 3: This is where I'm staying. Here's the driveway, pull in here, 200 00:11:49,559 --> 00:11:52,000 Speaker 3: and he said, I had no idea that he was 201 00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:54,280 Speaker 3: staying at the Enix. It was pure coincidence. 202 00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:56,920 Speaker 1: In the past, when David explained how he wound up 203 00:11:56,920 --> 00:12:00,360 Speaker 1: with Joe that evening, his official written out timeline was 204 00:12:00,400 --> 00:12:03,480 Speaker 1: that he just saw him walking and picked him up. 205 00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:07,559 Speaker 1: No mention of Bob's pizza. Could he be confused, Sure, 206 00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:09,880 Speaker 1: but it's hard for me to get past that. If 207 00:12:09,880 --> 00:12:13,360 Speaker 1: you're innocent, you don't know backwards and forwards the day 208 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:16,680 Speaker 1: that ruined your life exactly to a t what you 209 00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:20,400 Speaker 1: were doing, especially when you were brought into the police 210 00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:24,400 Speaker 1: station two days later as a person of interest. This 211 00:12:24,559 --> 00:12:29,200 Speaker 1: was not weeks later. I believe that story would solidify 212 00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:30,160 Speaker 1: in your brain. 213 00:12:30,520 --> 00:12:33,559 Speaker 3: You know, we know memories aren't tape recorders. Just tell 214 00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:40,719 Speaker 3: us what you do remember And. 215 00:12:38,320 --> 00:12:44,160 Speaker 7: And he left out the person that is responsible for 216 00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:49,880 Speaker 7: him sitting in that jail. He completely without prompting, he 217 00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:51,840 Speaker 7: was not going to bring up the fact that he 218 00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:53,679 Speaker 7: was with Joe at the Enix. 219 00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:57,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, they asked David about what Sam Peig said. Remember, 220 00:12:57,880 --> 00:13:00,320 Speaker 1: she's one of Joe's best friends, and she told us 221 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:03,839 Speaker 1: that Joe had repeatedly told her before the murder that 222 00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:07,079 Speaker 1: David wanted Yvonne gone. 223 00:13:12,640 --> 00:13:14,960 Speaker 3: You know, some weeks leading up to the murder, Joe 224 00:13:15,040 --> 00:13:17,880 Speaker 3: was saying that you were telling him that you wanted of. 225 00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:19,840 Speaker 4: On gone It's. 226 00:13:21,160 --> 00:13:23,360 Speaker 3: And I said, a point blank did that happen? No? 227 00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:25,920 Speaker 3: That was the other place where I put in my notes. 228 00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:28,679 Speaker 3: He said no, and then he immediately goes into how 229 00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:32,720 Speaker 3: pitiful Joe is, And so I wrote my notes, changed 230 00:13:32,760 --> 00:13:33,520 Speaker 3: subject quickly. 231 00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:36,560 Speaker 1: So the guy's pivoted to the test. 232 00:13:37,040 --> 00:13:39,240 Speaker 3: So I said, okay, who are you before all of 233 00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:41,880 Speaker 3: this happened, you know, and one to tell him to 234 00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:44,000 Speaker 3: tell us good things, which he did, only tell us 235 00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:46,440 Speaker 3: good things. I was a great friend. I was loyal, 236 00:13:46,520 --> 00:13:47,920 Speaker 3: you know, you know, I could be a little bit 237 00:13:47,920 --> 00:13:50,560 Speaker 3: of a knuckleab whatever. And so they're like, okay, well, 238 00:13:50,559 --> 00:13:51,240 Speaker 3: what trouble did? 239 00:13:51,400 --> 00:13:52,160 Speaker 4: Was there any trouble? 240 00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:56,360 Speaker 3: I got a few speeding tickets, Danny, you know, says 241 00:13:56,400 --> 00:13:59,000 Speaker 3: little tell us about this broken window thing and. 242 00:13:59,120 --> 00:14:00,920 Speaker 1: One of the incident reports we found. 243 00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:04,120 Speaker 3: Then he tells us about that, and you know, we 244 00:14:04,240 --> 00:14:07,120 Speaker 3: go on and and well what else, you know, what 245 00:14:07,240 --> 00:14:11,960 Speaker 3: other kind of stuff did you get into? And you know, 246 00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:17,199 Speaker 3: every fucking thing that we mentioned, Well, what about you? Know, 247 00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:19,600 Speaker 3: did you did you kick somebody's door? Oh yeah, I 248 00:14:19,640 --> 00:14:19,880 Speaker 3: did that. 249 00:14:20,560 --> 00:14:24,360 Speaker 2: When it wasn't offering, we had to hit him with 250 00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:25,080 Speaker 2: what we knew. 251 00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:27,160 Speaker 3: Yes, and once he knew. 252 00:14:26,920 --> 00:14:28,840 Speaker 2: We knew, then he did, oh yeah, that's true. 253 00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:29,280 Speaker 4: Yeah. 254 00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:33,400 Speaker 3: And if it's like, okay, what else, well did you 255 00:14:33,400 --> 00:14:35,520 Speaker 3: you know you grab somebody's lip? 256 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:37,760 Speaker 4: And oh yeah, I did do that, the guy said. 257 00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:40,080 Speaker 1: Once they told him that he did it and they 258 00:14:40,120 --> 00:14:43,040 Speaker 1: knew he did, then he'd admit to these things. But 259 00:14:43,440 --> 00:14:45,640 Speaker 1: it was always someone else's fault. 260 00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:47,200 Speaker 4: It's never him. 261 00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:48,640 Speaker 1: It's always somebody else. 262 00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:52,240 Speaker 4: That's exactly right and everything. It can't be always somebody. 263 00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:56,000 Speaker 3: Exactly every every altercation that we were able to pull 264 00:14:56,040 --> 00:15:00,840 Speaker 3: out of him, it was somebody else's fault. You know, I. 265 00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:04,600 Speaker 5: Just kind of key on. 266 00:15:05,880 --> 00:15:13,120 Speaker 3: It was really something to me that we gave him 267 00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:16,280 Speaker 3: plenty of opportunities, like, dude, good, bad or ugly, you know, 268 00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:19,440 Speaker 3: tell us what your life was like, what you were 269 00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:21,960 Speaker 3: involved in, any trouble you got in. I got a 270 00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:25,480 Speaker 3: few speeding tickets, and that was all he was going 271 00:15:25,560 --> 00:15:30,600 Speaker 3: to say. He didn't volunteer a single thing, did he 272 00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:33,480 Speaker 3: As far as like any of those incidents. 273 00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:35,320 Speaker 1: I'm going to play chunks of the conversation we had, 274 00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:38,120 Speaker 1: but know that we were driving in the background. Noise 275 00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:40,280 Speaker 1: changes from one moment to the next. 276 00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:43,960 Speaker 3: Still, everything that we got out of him was because 277 00:15:44,040 --> 00:15:48,800 Speaker 3: we knew ahead of time what these accusations were. He 278 00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:51,760 Speaker 3: did not volunteer a motherfucking things. 279 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:55,440 Speaker 2: Like prosecutors are taught, never ask a question that you 280 00:15:55,480 --> 00:15:56,640 Speaker 2: don't already know the answer. 281 00:15:56,720 --> 00:15:59,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's what we did. 282 00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:02,560 Speaker 2: It only as we asked, did he give them yep. 283 00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:04,120 Speaker 4: Only he was. 284 00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:06,040 Speaker 3: Going to leave it as I got a few speeding tickets. 285 00:16:06,560 --> 00:16:09,160 Speaker 4: That was that. 286 00:16:09,160 --> 00:16:11,880 Speaker 3: That's where he wanted to leave it. That was his answer. 287 00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:12,960 Speaker 2: Yeah. 288 00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:16,120 Speaker 3: And we even let a let a pause sit there 289 00:16:16,160 --> 00:16:19,680 Speaker 3: for a little bit where nobody said anything like what 290 00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:21,600 Speaker 3: about shooting out the car? Yeah, I had to do that. 291 00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:25,080 Speaker 1: Remember the allegation from his ex girlfriend Angie that he 292 00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:27,720 Speaker 1: shot out her four tires. 293 00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:32,400 Speaker 3: Only one time, only one tires and it was my car. 294 00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:34,240 Speaker 2: But he did. 295 00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:40,040 Speaker 3: He denied choking her, he denied pulling her hair and 296 00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:41,080 Speaker 3: hitting her head into the. 297 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:46,600 Speaker 1: Steeas he denied it all. I felt defeated. I'd put 298 00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:49,320 Speaker 1: so much time into this and so much of my 299 00:16:49,440 --> 00:16:54,280 Speaker 1: credibility and emotion, But this time at least I was 300 00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:56,680 Speaker 1: ready for it. I asked the guys to give it 301 00:16:56,680 --> 00:17:00,840 Speaker 1: to me straight. Did they think they could take David's case? 302 00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:05,040 Speaker 2: You know, you know when you leave an interview and 303 00:17:05,080 --> 00:17:08,200 Speaker 2: you feel like you've shared more information than the person 304 00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:12,639 Speaker 2: who's fighting for their life, there's a reason behind that, 305 00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:14,359 Speaker 2: and we he is. 306 00:17:14,280 --> 00:17:15,920 Speaker 1: There or is he an idiot? 307 00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:16,320 Speaker 5: Could be? 308 00:17:16,520 --> 00:17:22,320 Speaker 3: I mean, you know, David's a charismatic guy and a 309 00:17:22,359 --> 00:17:25,400 Speaker 3: slick talker, but I'm not going to say that he's 310 00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:31,560 Speaker 3: a brain surgeon. You know he's because you know, I 311 00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:32,359 Speaker 3: don't know, Well, are. 312 00:17:32,280 --> 00:17:34,639 Speaker 4: You picking up on these David Koresh vibes. 313 00:17:35,280 --> 00:17:38,920 Speaker 2: I've picked up on this vibe, the flutter and the grin. 314 00:17:40,040 --> 00:17:41,200 Speaker 4: He's not having to. 315 00:17:41,119 --> 00:17:44,320 Speaker 2: Make direct contact with someone because I feel like that's 316 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:50,879 Speaker 2: his way with him handling uncomfortable or sensitive discussions. He 317 00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:55,040 Speaker 2: did it throughout that interview because he was so by 318 00:17:55,080 --> 00:17:58,960 Speaker 2: the first ten minutes, twenty minutes, it was so obvious 319 00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:04,399 Speaker 2: to me that as things first twenty minutes we were 320 00:18:04,440 --> 00:18:05,439 Speaker 2: talking about prison. 321 00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:06,520 Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, it was. 322 00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:10,800 Speaker 2: But as we started to engage in sensitive areas and 323 00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:14,919 Speaker 2: I watched his facial mannerisms, that was like, it's almost 324 00:18:15,040 --> 00:18:19,040 Speaker 2: like watching someone on a polygraph, on a control question, 325 00:18:19,560 --> 00:18:20,000 Speaker 2: and then a. 326 00:18:22,040 --> 00:18:22,879 Speaker 4: Rational question. 327 00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:23,119 Speaker 5: Right. 328 00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:25,960 Speaker 2: I mean, it's easy to say, yes, my name is Danny, 329 00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:29,840 Speaker 2: Yes I'm from Austin, Texas or whatever. But then did 330 00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:32,320 Speaker 2: you kill her? It was the same way when we 331 00:18:32,359 --> 00:18:36,720 Speaker 2: got into sensitive areas. His head would drop a little bit, 332 00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:40,600 Speaker 2: his eyes would flow, its blinking was delayed, and he 333 00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:44,120 Speaker 2: would grin as he gave this, oh that snow, big 334 00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:47,560 Speaker 2: deal kind of answer. Did you notice it like that job? 335 00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:48,160 Speaker 3: Yeah? I did. 336 00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:54,160 Speaker 1: So you're saying that's weird. And it wasn't only that 337 00:18:54,280 --> 00:18:57,160 Speaker 1: David couldn't be straight about his violent past. 338 00:18:58,080 --> 00:19:03,400 Speaker 2: He could produce nothing, could not be refuge our suspicions. 339 00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:08,640 Speaker 2: Our biggest issue is we could never detach Joe from 340 00:19:08,840 --> 00:19:12,080 Speaker 2: Vonn's house. And we know that at five o'clock that night, 341 00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:16,120 Speaker 2: you were with Joe, as shitty as he was, as 342 00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:19,119 Speaker 2: messed up as his life was. At five o'clock, you 343 00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:20,919 Speaker 2: were in the front yard of the home he was 344 00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:24,040 Speaker 2: living in, showing off a tiger, and a few hours 345 00:19:24,119 --> 00:19:27,080 Speaker 2: later she's dead. That's our problem. 346 00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:29,080 Speaker 5: Yeah, and what did you say? 347 00:19:30,359 --> 00:19:31,119 Speaker 2: He had nothing? 348 00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:31,840 Speaker 5: Nothing? 349 00:19:31,920 --> 00:19:32,520 Speaker 2: He had nothing. 350 00:19:32,920 --> 00:19:35,720 Speaker 1: I had hoped when the guys met David, he'd fight 351 00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:39,240 Speaker 1: for his life with everything he had to prove his innocence. 352 00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:43,440 Speaker 1: But that doesn't seem like what happened at all. 353 00:19:44,359 --> 00:19:44,560 Speaker 4: You know. 354 00:19:44,680 --> 00:19:47,680 Speaker 3: I don't want to make it all sound bad and 355 00:19:47,840 --> 00:19:51,840 Speaker 3: horrible or anything like that, but there the overall thing 356 00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:59,720 Speaker 3: was not really good. He knows what's happening right now. 357 00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:05,560 Speaker 3: He knows that he's got to be forthcoming. I made 358 00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:07,560 Speaker 3: that clear to him from the very beginning. 359 00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:10,320 Speaker 1: And he wasn't. So that led the guys to a 360 00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:15,480 Speaker 1: conclusion about whether they can continue the investigation, continue to 361 00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:17,960 Speaker 1: invest time and money. 362 00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:21,200 Speaker 3: Answer those questions. I told him that straight up. 363 00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:27,520 Speaker 1: You just weren't truthful. Yeah, you omitted information. We can't 364 00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:28,800 Speaker 1: do it if you're going to be like that. 365 00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:32,159 Speaker 3: And it never would have even come up. He would have, 366 00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:35,160 Speaker 3: you know, had had the three of us not been 367 00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:37,240 Speaker 3: on the ground and learn what we learned. And there's 368 00:20:37,359 --> 00:20:41,440 Speaker 3: part of me that wants to take up for Joe if, 369 00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:43,560 Speaker 3: in my heart of hearts, I believe that David had 370 00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:45,240 Speaker 3: something to do with that. Part of me wants to 371 00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:50,480 Speaker 3: take up for Joe because you know, everybody believes in 372 00:20:50,560 --> 00:20:55,360 Speaker 3: David and Joe's the bad guy, and if David had 373 00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:58,440 Speaker 3: something to do with that that's completely unfair to Joe. 374 00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:03,280 Speaker 1: Then you know what's next. There's always a bombshell. The 375 00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:16,320 Speaker 1: guys told me some information that floored me. David always 376 00:21:16,359 --> 00:21:19,960 Speaker 1: gave me the impression he didn't know about Yvonne's sex 377 00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:23,680 Speaker 1: work until trial. But then I saw his girlfriend's grand 378 00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:28,320 Speaker 1: jury testimony saying David told her Yvonne quote had a 379 00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:32,000 Speaker 1: drug problem and was a quote prostitute. And there's also 380 00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:36,040 Speaker 1: David's grandfather telling the grand jury quote she was a 381 00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:40,400 Speaker 1: high priced call girl. I circled back to David. How 382 00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:43,360 Speaker 1: could people in his life know about the sex work 383 00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:47,560 Speaker 1: if he himself hadn't told them about it. He said, okay, 384 00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:51,439 Speaker 1: he knew, but only after they broke up. It seemed 385 00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:54,720 Speaker 1: we were both confused, so I never could get a 386 00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:57,800 Speaker 1: clear answer. But I never really thought it was important, 387 00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:01,679 Speaker 1: just odd, so I let it be. But because it 388 00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:04,119 Speaker 1: was odd, I mentioned it to the guys and they 389 00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:07,040 Speaker 1: figured if it was odd to me, maybe it meant something. 390 00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:09,880 Speaker 1: So they asked David the sex work and stuff. 391 00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:12,679 Speaker 3: Oh, he knew all about that. He took her to 392 00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:15,920 Speaker 3: He took her to West Virginia because she was going 393 00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:19,360 Speaker 3: to be an escort at these things. What the fucking 394 00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:21,600 Speaker 3: full well, knowing full well that's what she was going 395 00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:21,960 Speaker 3: to do. 396 00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:24,679 Speaker 2: But yes, he was like, yeah, I just like I 397 00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:26,520 Speaker 2: know she's doing. He's going to drop her off and 398 00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:28,320 Speaker 2: just get it out of my mind. 399 00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:31,680 Speaker 1: The guys said that he told them he knew exactly 400 00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:34,320 Speaker 1: why she was going, and when they asked how he 401 00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:37,399 Speaker 1: felt about it, he explained that he just had to 402 00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:40,480 Speaker 1: put it out of his mind and move on. Remember 403 00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:43,960 Speaker 1: this is what David told me. What did you think 404 00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:49,400 Speaker 1: she was doing when she was going to the conventions? 405 00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:53,280 Speaker 8: He chip talking that she got an office job and 406 00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:56,040 Speaker 8: she was going to a convention for something that doll. 407 00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:00,600 Speaker 8: I don't recall what it was, to be honest, it 408 00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:02,639 Speaker 8: was only a half tin of attention to what it 409 00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:04,840 Speaker 8: was that she was even talking about For a job. 410 00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:10,119 Speaker 1: He claimed he didn't know and didn't ask. I was furious, 411 00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:12,040 Speaker 1: So then why did he lie to me? 412 00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:15,199 Speaker 3: We don't have to ask him that I don't know? 413 00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:18,320 Speaker 1: And I did. That's next time on the finale of 414 00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:30,480 Speaker 1: Death and Deceit and Alliance. Coming up on Death and 415 00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:31,920 Speaker 1: Deceit and Alliance, I. 416 00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:34,000 Speaker 8: Told him, I said, I don't know exactly what time 417 00:23:34,040 --> 00:23:36,240 Speaker 8: that I was there other than that I never said 418 00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:37,320 Speaker 8: I wasn't there, David. 419 00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:39,880 Speaker 1: You had to have thought about that day a million times. 420 00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:41,439 Speaker 1: That's the day that put you in prison. 421 00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:44,159 Speaker 2: Whether David would go up to it or not. 422 00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:47,679 Speaker 3: Finding the nuggets David a chance. 423 00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:50,879 Speaker 2: It's just getting harder to find. I mean, we've turned 424 00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:54,000 Speaker 2: over enough stones to where there's only a sea left 425 00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:54,280 Speaker 2: and that. 426 00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:56,960 Speaker 3: There's nothing under the remaining stones. 427 00:23:57,160 --> 00:24:00,000 Speaker 1: Well, they had to pull information out of you. 428 00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:01,560 Speaker 8: Yeah, but I don't know what it is that you 429 00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:03,200 Speaker 8: want me to say to you unless. 430 00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:05,520 Speaker 4: You ask me the question the timeline of your day? 431 00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:07,840 Speaker 1: They said, what is the timeline of your day? You 432 00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:10,160 Speaker 1: know you're at the Enoch. Why didn't you put that 433 00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:11,359 Speaker 1: in your timeline? 434 00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:15,920 Speaker 2: If Chris Campbell stands by the story, if Sam stands 435 00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:20,080 Speaker 2: by the story, do you have contemporaneous and continuing. 436 00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:23,240 Speaker 4: Verification, and then we have a hidden domestic. 437 00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:25,200 Speaker 2: Violence situation which was violent. 438 00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:26,600 Speaker 4: Only shed. 439 00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:36,360 Speaker 1: Death and deceit. In Alliance is produced and reported by 440 00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:40,960 Speaker 1: me Maggie Freeling, with editorial consulting from Amber Hunt. Aaron 441 00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:45,480 Speaker 1: Case is our legal researcher. Our executive producer is Steve Fishman. 442 00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:49,919 Speaker 1: Our engineer and production coordinator is Austin Smith. Eric axelrod 443 00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:51,320 Speaker 1: Is our assistant producer.