1 00:00:08,039 --> 00:00:10,520 Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Stephanomics, the podcast that brings the 2 00:00:10,520 --> 00:00:13,760 Speaker 1: global economy to you. You probably feel like you've already 3 00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:17,000 Speaker 1: heard plenty about the COP twenty six climate change conference 4 00:00:17,040 --> 00:00:20,040 Speaker 1: in Glasgow the other day. If you've been paying attention, 5 00:00:20,480 --> 00:00:23,200 Speaker 1: you may also remember some of the other COP meetings 6 00:00:23,640 --> 00:00:26,920 Speaker 1: COP twenty one in Paris, and I'll bet you know 7 00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:31,240 Speaker 1: that one. Also memorable for some was COP fifteen in 8 00:00:31,360 --> 00:00:34,760 Speaker 1: Copenhagen a few years before. That considered a bit of 9 00:00:34,760 --> 00:00:39,600 Speaker 1: a flop. But President Biden's Special Envoy on Climate, John Kerry, 10 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:42,120 Speaker 1: has been at this game so long. He was at 11 00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:46,239 Speaker 1: the Earth Summit in Rio in which led to the 12 00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:49,240 Speaker 1: COP process in the first place. So I was fascinated 13 00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:53,240 Speaker 1: to get his long view on COPY when I spoke 14 00:00:53,280 --> 00:00:55,040 Speaker 1: to him on the last day of the New Economy 15 00:00:55,040 --> 00:00:58,160 Speaker 1: Forum last week. I also watched to find out what 16 00:00:58,360 --> 00:01:03,400 Speaker 1: that much trumpeted US China statement on climate cooperation was 17 00:01:03,440 --> 00:01:07,280 Speaker 1: actually going to achieve. He negotiated it, after all. We 18 00:01:07,319 --> 00:01:09,840 Speaker 1: have an edited version of that conversation in a little while. 19 00:01:10,360 --> 00:01:13,640 Speaker 1: I'll also be asking our Eurozone economist may VERA. Kusa, 20 00:01:14,240 --> 00:01:18,559 Speaker 1: why decarbonizing the economy could be a recipe for higher inflation. 21 00:01:19,319 --> 00:01:23,880 Speaker 1: But first something very different and important and thoughtful report 22 00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:28,680 Speaker 1: from Frankfurt based economy reporter Carolyn look on a subject 23 00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:32,520 Speaker 1: we haven't touched on before here on stephanomics, the economic 24 00:01:32,560 --> 00:01:36,640 Speaker 1: impact of violence against women. I should warn you this 25 00:01:36,680 --> 00:01:49,840 Speaker 1: piece does discuss experiences of domestic violence, medicraft, and I 26 00:01:49,880 --> 00:01:54,040 Speaker 1: don't have the energy and courage I once had, even 27 00:01:54,120 --> 00:01:59,480 Speaker 1: after a thousand therapies. It's broken and it's horrible because 28 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:02,720 Speaker 1: that's something to have to live with. You can't change it. 29 00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:09,799 Speaker 1: Tanya is vivacious, adventurous, has an infectious laugh. In her 30 00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:12,760 Speaker 1: own words, She's a tough woman, one who worked many 31 00:02:12,760 --> 00:02:16,240 Speaker 1: different jobs when she was younger, first as a medical assistant, 32 00:02:16,440 --> 00:02:20,800 Speaker 1: than as an alternative medical practitioner, and later organizing events 33 00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:24,720 Speaker 1: and concerts in her native Hamburg. She always dreamed of 34 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:28,120 Speaker 1: leaving Germany and moving abroad, and, like many of us, 35 00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:32,160 Speaker 1: of being cared for. She thought she found that when 36 00:02:32,200 --> 00:02:35,560 Speaker 1: she met her ex boyfriend about two decades ago. He 37 00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:38,359 Speaker 1: was eight years her senior and seemed like the first 38 00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:43,200 Speaker 1: man who really loved her. Now fifty two, Tanya realizes 39 00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:46,560 Speaker 1: it wasn't all that it seemed. Though. Tanya is not 40 00:02:46,639 --> 00:02:51,760 Speaker 1: her real name, which we've changed for her protection. In 41 00:02:53,919 --> 00:02:56,320 Speaker 1: I wasn't the first woman he beat up or was 42 00:02:56,440 --> 00:03:00,440 Speaker 1: violent against. There were apparently a few before me, and 43 00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:03,000 Speaker 1: he tell people in advance that I was mentally ill 44 00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:06,600 Speaker 1: and hysterical, just so that when he beat me up 45 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:18,560 Speaker 1: he could say, yeah, I told you she's crazy. The 46 00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:22,200 Speaker 1: abuse began early in their relationship. Tanya broke up with 47 00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:24,600 Speaker 1: him at one point, but gave him a second chance. 48 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:28,080 Speaker 1: They eventually decided to leave Germany and live in a 49 00:03:28,120 --> 00:03:31,120 Speaker 1: mobile home on the Greek island of Crete, which for 50 00:03:31,240 --> 00:03:35,040 Speaker 1: many would seem like a romantic adventure, but while there, 51 00:03:35,520 --> 00:03:38,680 Speaker 1: he locked her up, beat her, and later abandoned her 52 00:03:38,680 --> 00:03:41,600 Speaker 1: on a beach, leaving her desperate and helpless in a 53 00:03:41,640 --> 00:03:46,160 Speaker 1: foreign country with few avenues for support. She felt she 54 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:49,240 Speaker 1: had no choice but to return to Germany with him, 55 00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:51,400 Speaker 1: and it was only there that she managed to end 56 00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:54,080 Speaker 1: the two year nightmare when a colleague gave her a 57 00:03:54,120 --> 00:03:59,320 Speaker 1: place to stay. The violence Tanya had to experience is 58 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:03,920 Speaker 1: unfortunately far from rare. One in three women experienced some 59 00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:07,320 Speaker 1: form of physical or sexual violence by an intimate partner 60 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:12,240 Speaker 1: or non partner, according to the World Health Organization. While 61 00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:15,320 Speaker 1: the issue is sometimes framed as a personal issue and 62 00:04:15,400 --> 00:04:18,719 Speaker 1: one that's more common in developing countries, It's actually pervasive 63 00:04:18,760 --> 00:04:23,200 Speaker 1: across countries and carries deep emotional and economic costs, both 64 00:04:23,240 --> 00:04:27,400 Speaker 1: for victims and for wider society. Companies have started waking 65 00:04:27,480 --> 00:04:29,800 Speaker 1: up to this fact after a number of studies showed 66 00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:33,560 Speaker 1: how domestic abuse incurs both direct and indirect costs for 67 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:37,960 Speaker 1: the economy, beyond the already substantial legal bills, health and 68 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:43,240 Speaker 1: shelter costs. Victims naturally lose productivity when they suffer domestic abuse, 69 00:04:43,640 --> 00:04:47,960 Speaker 1: or might miss work altogether. In two thousand nineteen, Vodafone 70 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:50,479 Speaker 1: became the first company to offer ten days of paid 71 00:04:50,520 --> 00:04:54,080 Speaker 1: leave to victims, and this year Facebook followed with twenty 72 00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:58,400 Speaker 1: days of paid leave. Here's chief operating officer Cheryl Sandberg 73 00:04:58,480 --> 00:05:01,760 Speaker 1: speaking on the day the policy was announced. This is 74 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:06,839 Speaker 1: something that affects everyone, including our employees. It's a situation 75 00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:10,200 Speaker 1: where you need paid time off, and not just for yourself, 76 00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:14,039 Speaker 1: but for a loved one. And we're hoping, we're hoping that, 77 00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:17,680 Speaker 1: um this is a problem other companies will start tackling 78 00:05:17,720 --> 00:05:23,040 Speaker 1: as well. A huge part of the problem, as Tanya's 79 00:05:23,080 --> 00:05:25,760 Speaker 1: case showed, is that attitudes in the workplace are often 80 00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:28,560 Speaker 1: a huge deterrent to getting support in the first place. 81 00:05:29,520 --> 00:05:32,880 Speaker 1: When she left her violent partner, several of her male 82 00:05:32,920 --> 00:05:35,960 Speaker 1: colleagues initially took turns driving her to and from work 83 00:05:36,040 --> 00:05:38,880 Speaker 1: to keep her safe, but none of them actually talked 84 00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:42,800 Speaker 1: to her, she says, or seemed to care very much. Eventually, 85 00:05:42,960 --> 00:05:45,520 Speaker 1: her boss began harassing her and she had to quit 86 00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:53,559 Speaker 1: her job. After my experience with domestic violence, I wanted 87 00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:56,839 Speaker 1: to make decisions for myself. I didn't want to be 88 00:05:56,880 --> 00:06:05,000 Speaker 1: an employee somewhere and let someone have power over Nowadays, 89 00:06:05,080 --> 00:06:08,400 Speaker 1: Tanya as a freelance designer. It doesn't pay much, but 90 00:06:08,520 --> 00:06:11,320 Speaker 1: she'd rather do that than share control with a workplace 91 00:06:11,400 --> 00:06:16,760 Speaker 1: that doesn't have her best interests in mind. Employers could 92 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:19,800 Speaker 1: actually do a lot to help victims. After all, where 93 00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:21,800 Speaker 1: we work is where we spend one of the largest 94 00:06:21,839 --> 00:06:25,840 Speaker 1: portions of our time. That's according to Jane Pillinger, an 95 00:06:25,839 --> 00:06:28,919 Speaker 1: independent gender expert who worked with the u N and 96 00:06:29,080 --> 00:06:33,680 Speaker 1: it's International Labor organization on domestic violence policy. One of 97 00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:36,000 Speaker 1: the really interesting things from the work that I've been 98 00:06:36,040 --> 00:06:40,279 Speaker 1: involved in with trade unions and with companies across the 99 00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:44,560 Speaker 1: world is just how relevant it is to be doing 100 00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:49,039 Speaker 1: awareness raising in the workplace, giving people the tools to 101 00:06:49,080 --> 00:06:52,479 Speaker 1: spot the signs, to communicate with somebody who's who's experiencing 102 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:55,440 Speaker 1: domestic abuse, because you might not be able to solve 103 00:06:55,480 --> 00:06:58,000 Speaker 1: the problem, but you can open the door to helping 104 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:02,760 Speaker 1: somebody take the first step to surviving to mystic abuse. 105 00:07:05,279 --> 00:07:09,320 Speaker 1: In Germany, where Tanya is from, flawed attitudes about partner 106 00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:13,120 Speaker 1: violence run deep. A recent study by an organization called 107 00:07:13,120 --> 00:07:17,160 Speaker 1: front Line one hundred surveyed hundreds of business owners, managers, 108 00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:20,600 Speaker 1: and executives and showed that one in four believed that 109 00:07:20,640 --> 00:07:24,400 Speaker 1: there are reasons that can justify physical violence against a partner. 110 00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:30,080 Speaker 1: The survey respondents, who were mostly men, most often selected 111 00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:34,240 Speaker 1: reasons such as not completing one's housework or refusing to 112 00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:39,680 Speaker 1: have sex with the other as justifying such violence. German 113 00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:44,280 Speaker 1: women's attitudes are just as concerning. Nearly twenty of women 114 00:07:44,400 --> 00:07:47,680 Speaker 1: consider a husband to be justified in hitting or beating 115 00:07:47,760 --> 00:07:51,440 Speaker 1: his wife, according to a two thousan c D report. 116 00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:56,000 Speaker 1: That's more than in any other country in Europe. The 117 00:07:56,040 --> 00:07:59,160 Speaker 1: bottom line of all this is that blindness towards the 118 00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:04,000 Speaker 1: troubling in sequences of domestic abuse is costing economies billions. 119 00:08:04,520 --> 00:08:08,400 Speaker 1: The European Institute for Gender Equality estimates that the cost 120 00:08:08,440 --> 00:08:12,080 Speaker 1: of gender based violence across the European Union is three 121 00:08:12,120 --> 00:08:16,400 Speaker 1: hundred sixty six billion euros a year. Sylvia Sako, a 122 00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:20,240 Speaker 1: professor at the Brandenburg University of Technology, has studied the 123 00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:23,800 Speaker 1: cost of domestic violence in Germany and says that companies 124 00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:26,040 Speaker 1: need to do much more to stand up for victims. 125 00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:30,360 Speaker 1: Here she is discussing one case she was involved in 126 00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:34,200 Speaker 1: in which a female stalking victim spent years trying unsuccessfully 127 00:08:34,200 --> 00:08:40,960 Speaker 1: to get help. You have done on She already exhausted 128 00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:44,960 Speaker 1: all sorts of police measures and everything was unsuccessful. She 129 00:08:45,080 --> 00:08:47,960 Speaker 1: then lost her job. She became chronically ill for a 130 00:08:47,960 --> 00:08:51,640 Speaker 1: long time, and then years later turned to the employer 131 00:08:51,720 --> 00:08:54,839 Speaker 1: of the stalker. I eat the perpetrator and asked him 132 00:08:55,000 --> 00:09:03,120 Speaker 1: for a conversation. The perpetrator's boss ended up confronting his 133 00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:06,360 Speaker 1: employee about his actions, and it was only then that 134 00:09:06,440 --> 00:09:09,839 Speaker 1: the starking finally stopped after years of trying to get help. 135 00:09:10,720 --> 00:09:13,719 Speaker 1: Here's Jane Pillinger again. I suppose you know a lot 136 00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:17,559 Speaker 1: of employers have said, why is it my responsibility, it's 137 00:09:17,559 --> 00:09:20,600 Speaker 1: a private issue in the home. Well, it's it is 138 00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:23,319 Speaker 1: a private issue in the home, but you know it 139 00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:27,960 Speaker 1: spills over into the workplace, and that's the issue for 140 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:44,320 Speaker 1: Bloomberg News. I'm Caroline luck Are now as advertised, here's 141 00:09:44,360 --> 00:09:48,040 Speaker 1: that conversation with Presidential Special Envoy on Climate Change John 142 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:51,760 Speaker 1: Kerry for the Bloomberg New Economy Forum. One of the 143 00:09:52,360 --> 00:09:57,360 Speaker 1: I guess relatively few positive surprises out of the Glasgow 144 00:09:58,040 --> 00:10:04,440 Speaker 1: Summit was the US China Joint Glasgow Declaration on Climate 145 00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:08,640 Speaker 1: enormous symbolic significance. Clearly there haven't been a lot of 146 00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:11,960 Speaker 1: joint US China or anything for a while. But what 147 00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:15,560 Speaker 1: practical difference when we look at the words in that document, 148 00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:18,240 Speaker 1: what practical difference are they going to make to the 149 00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:24,880 Speaker 1: battle to contain climate change? Stephanie, the China Agreement is, 150 00:10:24,960 --> 00:10:29,080 Speaker 1: in fact, I think significant. I'm not saying that because 151 00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:34,240 Speaker 1: negotiated it with Shia Jama, who is a long time 152 00:10:34,640 --> 00:10:37,520 Speaker 1: associate and friend. He and I know each other quite 153 00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:41,800 Speaker 1: well over twenty plus years UM and we've worked at this, uh, 154 00:10:42,200 --> 00:10:48,839 Speaker 1: this issue. UH. The agreement is five pages that lay 155 00:10:48,880 --> 00:10:54,400 Speaker 1: out our cooperative effort not just on methane and CEO two, 156 00:10:54,559 --> 00:10:59,040 Speaker 1: but also on deforestation and the creation of a working 157 00:10:59,080 --> 00:11:03,920 Speaker 1: group between our two countries which we are now immediately 158 00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:07,480 Speaker 1: going to begin to activate. And I hope that our 159 00:11:07,559 --> 00:11:12,200 Speaker 1: working together will increase the sharing of data, increase the 160 00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:17,600 Speaker 1: sharing of of options, and begin to engage us in 161 00:11:17,640 --> 00:11:20,680 Speaker 1: a very important dialogue with the top leadership of both 162 00:11:20,679 --> 00:11:25,439 Speaker 1: of our countries. UM And and that's our hope. But importantly, 163 00:11:26,679 --> 00:11:32,080 Speaker 1: the agreement is quite specific in addressing methane with a 164 00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:36,000 Speaker 1: specific date for action. And the pledge is that we 165 00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:41,480 Speaker 1: will reduce methane by on a global basis, which doesn't 166 00:11:41,520 --> 00:11:44,440 Speaker 1: mean any individual country is doing the percent, but in 167 00:11:44,559 --> 00:11:49,920 Speaker 1: contributed global aggregation we will get a thirty percent reduction 168 00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:55,040 Speaker 1: on a global basis. And and trying to agreed UM 169 00:11:55,080 --> 00:11:58,480 Speaker 1: to work with us to lay out an ambitious these 170 00:11:58,559 --> 00:12:03,040 Speaker 1: these are the words AMBITI a national action plan which 171 00:12:03,160 --> 00:12:07,640 Speaker 1: China must submit and and begin acting on by copy 172 00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:11,360 Speaker 1: seven a year from now in uh in Charmel Shake. 173 00:12:12,240 --> 00:12:16,160 Speaker 1: So if we were to do the thirty percent reduction 174 00:12:16,440 --> 00:12:22,120 Speaker 1: of methane on a global basis by as Fati Birol 175 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:24,280 Speaker 1: of the I e A has made clear to us, 176 00:12:24,920 --> 00:12:28,520 Speaker 1: that is the equivalent of taking all the cars of 177 00:12:28,559 --> 00:12:31,040 Speaker 1: the world, all the trucks of the world, all the 178 00:12:31,080 --> 00:12:34,000 Speaker 1: ships of the world, all the planes of the world 179 00:12:34,640 --> 00:12:39,920 Speaker 1: to zero emissions. By so you can get a sentence 180 00:12:39,960 --> 00:12:42,760 Speaker 1: of the enormity of what the reduction of methane can mean. 181 00:12:42,840 --> 00:12:46,760 Speaker 1: It's about a point to degree reduction in the rise 182 00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:51,040 Speaker 1: of the Earth's temperature and it's the single biggest, fastest 183 00:12:51,440 --> 00:12:54,880 Speaker 1: grab that we can make for dealing with this problem. 184 00:12:54,920 --> 00:12:58,960 Speaker 1: The third thing that the agreement does is sets a 185 00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:05,120 Speaker 1: date currently for when China, in the commencement of its 186 00:13:05,160 --> 00:13:12,880 Speaker 1: fifteen five year plant, begins to phase down the consumption 187 00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:16,559 Speaker 1: of coal and does so with an agreement with us 188 00:13:17,280 --> 00:13:21,800 Speaker 1: that together we will work to make best efforts to 189 00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:27,480 Speaker 1: accelerate the reduction the phase out of coal. So all 190 00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:30,400 Speaker 1: of what we do in Glasgow, or did in Glasgow 191 00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:35,440 Speaker 1: obviously results in words reduced to paper, but that is 192 00:13:35,480 --> 00:13:38,760 Speaker 1: what brought us to Glasgow, that is what resulted in 193 00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:43,319 Speaker 1: the submission of a National Determined Contributions or n d 194 00:13:43,480 --> 00:13:47,880 Speaker 1: c s the production of emissions. It's the words translated 195 00:13:47,920 --> 00:13:53,920 Speaker 1: into actions that actually resulted in our committing to additional 196 00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:58,000 Speaker 1: funds forty a doubling of the amount of money that 197 00:13:58,040 --> 00:14:02,120 Speaker 1: goes into adaptation of significant recognition of the challenge of 198 00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:06,320 Speaker 1: loss and damages with the beginning of a dialogue that 199 00:14:06,320 --> 00:14:09,080 Speaker 1: will take place over the next year to figure out 200 00:14:09,120 --> 00:14:19,200 Speaker 1: how we deal with that. You mentioned the sums for 201 00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:23,960 Speaker 1: adaptation and mitigation for the developing countries. That was one 202 00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:28,880 Speaker 1: aspect of this agreement that certainly felt short and for 203 00:14:28,960 --> 00:14:32,520 Speaker 1: many who were there through all of the negotiations left 204 00:14:32,520 --> 00:14:34,840 Speaker 1: a kind of bitter taste in their in their mouths, 205 00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:39,760 Speaker 1: because it felt that it seemed too many that very 206 00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:43,440 Speaker 1: little progress have been made in really offering developing countries 207 00:14:43,480 --> 00:14:48,200 Speaker 1: a path two develop as well as be part of 208 00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:53,080 Speaker 1: this climate action. Do you understand those who felt disappointed 209 00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:55,880 Speaker 1: by what came out of it, the lack of actual 210 00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:58,720 Speaker 1: money on the loss and damage and the failure to 211 00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:01,800 Speaker 1: even meet the hundred billion dollar target, which you've admitted 212 00:15:01,880 --> 00:15:04,760 Speaker 1: was is nothing in the scheme of things of what's 213 00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:06,760 Speaker 1: going to be needed. Well, look, let me let me 214 00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:09,840 Speaker 1: be more Stephanie. I'm glad you asked the question because 215 00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:12,920 Speaker 1: I really wanted to tackle that. You know, the hundred 216 00:15:12,920 --> 00:15:15,920 Speaker 1: billion was a goal. It's become a target, but it 217 00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:18,520 Speaker 1: was a goal. It was pulled out of the air 218 00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:22,920 Speaker 1: by Gordon Brown. I think in Copenhagen Uh. Where they 219 00:15:22,920 --> 00:15:26,000 Speaker 1: were trying to find agreement and and they decided to 220 00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:30,320 Speaker 1: be a hundred billion. We accepted that in Paris when 221 00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:33,360 Speaker 1: we negotiated it. But as I said, it was the 222 00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:36,920 Speaker 1: goal of a hundred billion. When I took this job on, 223 00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:43,800 Speaker 1: we were at sixty seven billion for the year. Uh 224 00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:48,120 Speaker 1: excuse me, And um, that's the first year the Biden 225 00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:52,120 Speaker 1: administration could step up, Folks. A guy named Donald Trump 226 00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:55,120 Speaker 1: cut all the funding, and a guy named Donald Trump 227 00:15:55,160 --> 00:15:58,120 Speaker 1: pulled out of the agreement. And so when Joe Biden 228 00:15:58,160 --> 00:16:00,560 Speaker 1: became president, the first budget he is in front of 229 00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:03,600 Speaker 1: them is that budget we're working on right now. And 230 00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:07,360 Speaker 1: we put eleven point four billion into that, doubling the 231 00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:11,040 Speaker 1: already doubling that Joe Biden had engaged in. Even as 232 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:13,600 Speaker 1: we're trying to get our own country back on track 233 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:15,760 Speaker 1: and do the things we need to do to get 234 00:16:15,760 --> 00:16:20,360 Speaker 1: the job done. We've had, we've accepted a fifty production. 235 00:16:21,040 --> 00:16:24,400 Speaker 1: We are legitimately on track to keep one point five 236 00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:28,800 Speaker 1: degrees alive. And I personally which more energy was spent 237 00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:31,960 Speaker 1: focusing on some of the countries that didn't submit in 238 00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:36,040 Speaker 1: d c s or folks and big countries, and focusing 239 00:16:36,080 --> 00:16:38,520 Speaker 1: on the countries that are not on a one point 240 00:16:38,520 --> 00:16:42,720 Speaker 1: five track, but indeed are going to be uh, you know, 241 00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:46,920 Speaker 1: putting more emissions into the into the atmosphere over the 242 00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:50,760 Speaker 1: course of the next number of years. So the reality 243 00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:55,240 Speaker 1: is we got up to nine to ninety seven billion 244 00:16:55,640 --> 00:16:58,360 Speaker 1: according to the o E c D for next year, 245 00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:01,880 Speaker 1: and if we can come pleat the budget that we 246 00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:04,800 Speaker 1: have coming in, then we'll be over the hundred billion 247 00:17:04,840 --> 00:17:07,679 Speaker 1: for next year. So we are making good in the 248 00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:09,840 Speaker 1: first year that we have an opportunity need to do 249 00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:13,520 Speaker 1: something with the budget. In addition, loss and damage does 250 00:17:13,560 --> 00:17:16,479 Speaker 1: not even have been accepted at a major part of 251 00:17:16,520 --> 00:17:18,879 Speaker 1: the agreement that we accepted the idea that it is 252 00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:21,359 Speaker 1: important to deal with and that we do have to 253 00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:24,199 Speaker 1: have a dialogue. But look, if we don't want to 254 00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:27,399 Speaker 1: shut the entire United States Congress down on putting money 255 00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:32,240 Speaker 1: into climate, we can't accept the opening of the liability 256 00:17:32,280 --> 00:17:34,159 Speaker 1: which is going to tie up the courts and the 257 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:37,400 Speaker 1: structure and not get the money we need for adaptation 258 00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:40,600 Speaker 1: and resilience. So we really ought to be putting more 259 00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:45,639 Speaker 1: effort into adaptation and resilience where we are doubling the money. 260 00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:49,840 Speaker 1: But the bigger issue, folks, is not a hundred billion dollars. 261 00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:53,520 Speaker 1: That's peanuts compared to what we have to be doing here. 262 00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:56,240 Speaker 1: And the fact is that we went to the top 263 00:17:56,280 --> 00:18:01,400 Speaker 1: banks in the United States. I personally engage with Goldman Acts, Morgan, Stanley, 264 00:18:01,440 --> 00:18:06,879 Speaker 1: well Spargo, City, uh JP, Morgan, Bank of America, and 265 00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:10,320 Speaker 1: those six banks have committed that over the next ten 266 00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:15,479 Speaker 1: years they're prepared and will invest four point one six 267 00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:20,080 Speaker 1: trillion dollars in this transition. In addition, Larry Fink at 268 00:18:20,119 --> 00:18:22,040 Speaker 1: black Rock says he's going to put at least a 269 00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:25,760 Speaker 1: trillion in and and others will. And there's a Global 270 00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:29,720 Speaker 1: Finance Alliance which Mark Karney has has been working with, 271 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:34,240 Speaker 1: which has tens of trillions allegedly of additional money. We 272 00:18:34,359 --> 00:18:37,320 Speaker 1: have to find a way to deploy that money. That 273 00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:41,320 Speaker 1: money is not giveaway, it's not concessionaire, it's ready to invest. 274 00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:46,680 Speaker 1: So countries bear responsibility to also step up and make 275 00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:50,399 Speaker 1: sure that they have the transparency and the contracting and 276 00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:54,320 Speaker 1: the p p a s and the ability to be 277 00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:59,800 Speaker 1: able to make those trillions into deployable investment bankable money. 278 00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:01,920 Speaker 1: You know as well as I do that a lot 279 00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:04,919 Speaker 1: of the money that's needed is needed in developing countries, 280 00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:08,639 Speaker 1: and there's no commitment from those big financial institutions to 281 00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:11,720 Speaker 1: take the money to where it's going to be really needed. 282 00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:13,880 Speaker 1: If you're if you were Prime Minister Modi, we had 283 00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:18,040 Speaker 1: a rather probably what you would consider a minimum commitment 284 00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:21,400 Speaker 1: from India at the cop But if you were Prime 285 00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:24,679 Speaker 1: Minister of India, would you have said anything different? Have 286 00:19:24,760 --> 00:19:27,000 Speaker 1: you been given any reason by the rest of the 287 00:19:27,040 --> 00:19:31,800 Speaker 1: world to be more ambitious in your domestic target when 288 00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:35,360 Speaker 1: you're also looking at a new to developing I understand 289 00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:38,120 Speaker 1: Prime Minister Money. I've met with them several times this year. 290 00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:41,720 Speaker 1: We formed a partnership to help India be able to 291 00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:45,520 Speaker 1: deploy at four hundred and fifty gigawatts of renewable power, 292 00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:50,639 Speaker 1: and we've agreed to bring finance and technology to the table. 293 00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:55,040 Speaker 1: We will need India's governmental help to be able to 294 00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:58,840 Speaker 1: make sure that the land is available either lease or sale, 295 00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:02,639 Speaker 1: that the transmit lines can move across one state to 296 00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:06,679 Speaker 1: another UH and obviously this is a two way street 297 00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:10,479 Speaker 1: to some degree. But in addition to that, yeah, we 298 00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:15,439 Speaker 1: have foreign assistance programs. We have the Development Finance Corporation, 299 00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:18,480 Speaker 1: which will have several billions of dollars that it is 300 00:20:18,520 --> 00:20:23,240 Speaker 1: already currently financing projects in less developed countries around the world. 301 00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:27,159 Speaker 1: But the real fight here, folks, let's we're gonna be 302 00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:30,639 Speaker 1: real about this. We we have been a leading nation 303 00:20:31,119 --> 00:20:38,040 Speaker 1: in consistently assisting other countries to develop. But figure, please 304 00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:44,840 Speaker 1: focus on this. Twenty countries equal of all the emissions. 305 00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:50,200 Speaker 1: They're basically your g twenty though not exclusively those those 306 00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:54,520 Speaker 1: twenty countries, they're the greatest responsibility for helping to solve 307 00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:57,960 Speaker 1: this crisis right now. And the fact is that no 308 00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:02,440 Speaker 1: country really accepted as included that this was a genuine 309 00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:08,080 Speaker 1: crisis until when we all went to Rio and formed 310 00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:11,560 Speaker 1: the process by which we now meet every year for 311 00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:15,159 Speaker 1: twenty six years. But the truth is a lot of 312 00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:19,200 Speaker 1: countries decided to grow with coal, not with nuclear, not 313 00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:23,520 Speaker 1: with gas, not with other alternatives. And coal is the 314 00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:28,400 Speaker 1: primary culprit today in warming the planet and in polluting 315 00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:32,560 Speaker 1: the air, and in creating the intensity of the storms 316 00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:36,240 Speaker 1: that comes with the increased moisture that rises from the oceans. 317 00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:38,879 Speaker 1: And we have to start where the greatest amount of 318 00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:41,840 Speaker 1: emissions are if we're going to win the battle. So 319 00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:48,520 Speaker 1: if more than of those twenty countries are now committed 320 00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:51,639 Speaker 1: to a one point five degree track. And what we 321 00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:53,760 Speaker 1: have to do is go to the countries where the 322 00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:57,040 Speaker 1: greatest amount of emissions are and begin to reduce the 323 00:21:57,080 --> 00:22:00,480 Speaker 1: greatest amount of missions the fastest we can, as fast 324 00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:06,680 Speaker 1: as we can, and and that means China, Russia, India, Mexico, 325 00:22:07,119 --> 00:22:11,240 Speaker 1: South Africa, Brazil. You know a group of country Indonesia, 326 00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:15,080 Speaker 1: and those are the countries we've been doing climate diplomacy with. 327 00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:20,199 Speaker 1: South Africa has accepted a new plan. But we have 328 00:22:20,359 --> 00:22:22,840 Speaker 1: to all of us be able to put the deals 329 00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:26,960 Speaker 1: together that will that will phase out their coal fast 330 00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:31,400 Speaker 1: and provide the alternative renewable energy. The truth is that 331 00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:35,879 Speaker 1: if India were to deploy the fifty gigawatts of renewable energy, 332 00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:40,520 Speaker 1: then India's in compliance with one point five degrees. So 333 00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:44,520 Speaker 1: this can happen. It will take all of us working together. 334 00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:54,639 Speaker 1: You talked about the importance of US leadership here, which 335 00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:59,199 Speaker 1: is clear. Commitments to this agenda didn't used to be 336 00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:02,040 Speaker 1: a partisan issue in the US, but it sure is now. 337 00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:06,000 Speaker 1: If you looked at the polls, if you look at 338 00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:10,240 Speaker 1: the recent election results in Virginia and elsewhere, you would 339 00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:15,800 Speaker 1: say the Democrats are overwhelming underdogs for next year's election, 340 00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:19,960 Speaker 1: and at this point for the next presidential election. Why 341 00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:22,560 Speaker 1: should the rest of the world believe this leadership is 342 00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:25,720 Speaker 1: going to continue beyond the next two or three years 343 00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:28,240 Speaker 1: in this crucial period for the very simple reason that 344 00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:31,520 Speaker 1: the marketplace is going there, whether the government does or not. 345 00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:35,719 Speaker 1: This is going to be a global revolution, and I 346 00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:38,800 Speaker 1: believe that transformation is going to be so far. Look, 347 00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:41,960 Speaker 1: General Motors and Ford Motor Company have already announced they're 348 00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:46,879 Speaker 1: gonna only produce electric cars by by They're gonna have 349 00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:50,560 Speaker 1: fifty of their cars are going to be produced our elector. 350 00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:53,119 Speaker 1: So I'm just telling you you think they're going to 351 00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:56,359 Speaker 1: spend hundreds of millions of dollars retooling those plants for 352 00:23:56,480 --> 00:23:59,879 Speaker 1: electric and then turn around because some politician comes in 353 00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:04,320 Speaker 1: and wants to deny science. Again. No, what we're doing 354 00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:07,359 Speaker 1: in the United States has nothing to do with politics 355 00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:10,840 Speaker 1: and ideology. It has everything to do with mathematics and physics. 356 00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:15,080 Speaker 1: And if you understand mathematics and physics and you believe 357 00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:18,879 Speaker 1: the science, this is gonna happen because it's gonna happen 358 00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:21,320 Speaker 1: in all the rest of the world, and the United 359 00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:23,760 Speaker 1: States is not stepping up to say, hey, we're the 360 00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:27,200 Speaker 1: leader here. This is everybody's got to be leaders here. 361 00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:30,240 Speaker 1: Everybody's gonna step in together. But we are here to 362 00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:32,800 Speaker 1: make up for the deficit of a guy who didn't 363 00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:36,479 Speaker 1: understand science and didn't have any economic rationale and who 364 00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:38,879 Speaker 1: pulled out of the Paris Agreement and hurt the world 365 00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:41,440 Speaker 1: in doing that. And we don't have any time for that. 366 00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:44,080 Speaker 1: So we're gonna come back. We're gonna do everything in 367 00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:47,560 Speaker 1: our power because our citizens are as exposed as citizens 368 00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:50,880 Speaker 1: everywhere else in the world. I mean, if, if, if, 369 00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:55,239 Speaker 1: if leaders don't grab onto this baton, they're gonna get 370 00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:59,240 Speaker 1: thrown out because the public understands what's happening and they're 371 00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:03,280 Speaker 1: demanding action from all of us. So I believe no 372 00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:08,359 Speaker 1: politician in four is going to step up. And besides, 373 00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:12,480 Speaker 1: it's way too premature to be making any speculations about 374 00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:16,080 Speaker 1: I can't believe what's going on. Prison Biden is going 375 00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:21,159 Speaker 1: to pass his next piece of legislation, and together with 376 00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:25,320 Speaker 1: his infrastructure bill, that's gonna put about two trillion plus dollars, 377 00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:27,879 Speaker 1: much of which is going to go to climate action 378 00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:31,000 Speaker 1: in the United States. And even while Donald Trump pulled 379 00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:35,399 Speaker 1: out of the agreement, the vast majority. Thirty seven governors 380 00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:39,040 Speaker 1: in the United States, Republican, the Democratic like continued to 381 00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:42,840 Speaker 1: stay in the Paris Agreement. Over a thousand mayors continued 382 00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:46,159 Speaker 1: to stay in the Paris Agreement. And they you know, 383 00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:50,439 Speaker 1: as I say, America's stayed in that agreement. And and 384 00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:55,240 Speaker 1: fully ninety of the new energy being brought online around 385 00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:59,800 Speaker 1: the world today is online because of renewables. This is 386 00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:04,120 Speaker 1: happening without government. It's happening because the marketplace has made 387 00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:06,919 Speaker 1: a decision. That's where we have to go. And with 388 00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:12,359 Speaker 1: disclosure and and trading mechanisms and pricing of carbon and 389 00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:16,480 Speaker 1: see bam coming at us. Believe me, folks, Uh, no 390 00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:20,840 Speaker 1: one politician can undo what is about to happen. Well, 391 00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:24,439 Speaker 1: that's an emphatic note on which to begin our final 392 00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:28,720 Speaker 1: day of deliberations. John Kerry, Special Presidential Envoy for Climate, 393 00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:30,720 Speaker 1: thank you very much for joining us. I have to 394 00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:42,159 Speaker 1: do really so I wanted to stick with the same 395 00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:45,280 Speaker 1: theme to pick up on some work that Bloomberg Economists 396 00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:48,840 Speaker 1: have done on the economic implications of climate change, with 397 00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:52,919 Speaker 1: one of the authors, Eurozone economist Mayva Kuza, friend of 398 00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:57,560 Speaker 1: the podcast Neva. So you're basically thinking through you know 399 00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:01,000 Speaker 1: what the kinds of things that we hear about. It's 400 00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:05,120 Speaker 1: a cop tow any six in Glasgow. Where countries are 401 00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:10,080 Speaker 1: making commitments very close short term or longer term commitments 402 00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:13,840 Speaker 1: to decarbonize, you know, inherent in that commitment is the 403 00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:17,679 Speaker 1: idea that carbon prices carbon, the price of carbon in 404 00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:19,520 Speaker 1: the economy is going to get higher, that we're going 405 00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:23,680 Speaker 1: to stop subsidizing all these fossil fuels. And what you're 406 00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:27,840 Speaker 1: looking at is the these various estimates of how that 407 00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:30,320 Speaker 1: rise in the carbon price is going to feed through 408 00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:32,840 Speaker 1: to the general level of prices and certainly the general 409 00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:38,720 Speaker 1: um rate of inflation. So when when you step back 410 00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:42,320 Speaker 1: from that research, do you think that the kind of 411 00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:46,040 Speaker 1: price hikes and mad variation in the cost of energy 412 00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:49,680 Speaker 1: that we've seen recently that's going to be much more 413 00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:53,120 Speaker 1: common in the future as we have these various different 414 00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:56,600 Speaker 1: rates of carbon. That's going to get much more common 415 00:27:56,960 --> 00:28:01,600 Speaker 1: as we have these efforts to decarbonize. So it will already, 416 00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:04,760 Speaker 1: I would say that it really depends on how old 417 00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:09,120 Speaker 1: only old disorder transition is. First, if you can imagine 418 00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:13,479 Speaker 1: a case where globally we um countries and policy makers 419 00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:17,920 Speaker 1: agree on a relatively well settled price for carbon. Then 420 00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:22,560 Speaker 1: it's easier for producers to plan ahead. It's probably easier 421 00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:26,200 Speaker 1: for inflation expectations to adjust as well, and you would 422 00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:31,560 Speaker 1: have this initial potential increase in producer prices, but it's 423 00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:35,960 Speaker 1: probably going to be much smoother if, in contrast, you 424 00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:37,960 Speaker 1: have something where from one year to the next we 425 00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:43,480 Speaker 1: can have very large changes in um carbon taxis, carbon prices, 426 00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:47,640 Speaker 1: carbon regulations, and there's less time to adapt than I 427 00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:51,360 Speaker 1: think the impact on prices is going to be bigger. 428 00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:54,920 Speaker 1: And in addition, it's also a question of how prepared 429 00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:59,160 Speaker 1: the energy system is to the new regulations. We know that, 430 00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:03,640 Speaker 1: for instance, renewable energy tend to be maybe more volatile 431 00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:07,120 Speaker 1: volatile in their production, and as long as there is 432 00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:13,200 Speaker 1: this sort of backup coming from more higher fuel intensive, 433 00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:17,320 Speaker 1: in emission intensive products they call, for instance, which would 434 00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:19,760 Speaker 1: cost a lot in the world with higher carbon prices, 435 00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:23,360 Speaker 1: then it would increase massively the cost of production if 436 00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:27,720 Speaker 1: renewable drops for a temperate period, and that will increase 437 00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:31,840 Speaker 1: sort of volatility of energy inflation. And I think one 438 00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:34,160 Speaker 1: thing that is important to consider as well is that 439 00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:37,680 Speaker 1: not only it will affect inflation, it would increase inflation, 440 00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:41,440 Speaker 1: but it's also as a place, so it would reduce growth, 441 00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:44,600 Speaker 1: it would reduce economic activity. And so for central box 442 00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:48,240 Speaker 1: you can have this sort of um much more volatile inflation, 443 00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:54,280 Speaker 1: higher on average, and the trade off with supporting the economy, 444 00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:58,560 Speaker 1: and different sample box will probably see this trade off differently. 445 00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:02,760 Speaker 1: Some may look fruit the pacing crazies and we have 446 00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:07,600 Speaker 1: higher inflation and mostly brought for crave. Some may actually 447 00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:10,400 Speaker 1: decide that they need to takeen policy to high in 448 00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:14,440 Speaker 1: inflation at the expense of the could activity. I guess 449 00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:17,480 Speaker 1: you've seen a little sort of dry run for some 450 00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:22,440 Speaker 1: of this where people are blaming efforts to combat climate 451 00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:27,040 Speaker 1: change for the spike in energy prices that we've seen. 452 00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:30,680 Speaker 1: And if we get the kind of variability of inflation, 453 00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:35,280 Speaker 1: the impact on growth that you've just talked about coming 454 00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:39,280 Speaker 1: down the track causing challenges for central bankers also as 455 00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:43,400 Speaker 1: a result of combating climate change, you know that could 456 00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:46,080 Speaker 1: that could make for some quite difficult politics as well 457 00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:51,240 Speaker 1: as decisions for central bankers. Yes, definity, and we've seen 458 00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:55,640 Speaker 1: that even increasing um energitects. For instance, we've seen in 459 00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:59,160 Speaker 1: France the religion par days that it's actually difficult. It's 460 00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:04,160 Speaker 1: so it tends to be energic, existance to be regressive, 461 00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:07,520 Speaker 1: so they tend to affect poor people more, and that's 462 00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:13,080 Speaker 1: always a very difficult political um political choice to make. 463 00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:17,040 Speaker 1: The recent increase we've seen in energy prices is a 464 00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:22,880 Speaker 1: combination of some very unusual renewable poor production from renewable 465 00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:27,000 Speaker 1: which we may see the wind not blowing exactly as 466 00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:31,400 Speaker 1: the remaking more if we rely more on renewable, plus 467 00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:35,200 Speaker 1: potentially if the climate system becomes more unusual as well. 468 00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:39,080 Speaker 1: But it's also a direct impact from the supplying negg. 469 00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:41,960 Speaker 1: It's supply bottom example, you sink for the pandemics, so 470 00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:45,440 Speaker 1: it's some of them. It's a bit of both. But 471 00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:48,360 Speaker 1: in any case, it's clear that the policy choices that 472 00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:51,800 Speaker 1: we have to be made in terms of UM, both 473 00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:55,680 Speaker 1: at the same time driving the tradition but also making 474 00:31:56,280 --> 00:32:00,040 Speaker 1: the adjustments UM and supporting the parts of the go 475 00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:02,960 Speaker 1: to mean that needs to body will be quite a 476 00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:06,800 Speaker 1: difficult challenge for for policymakers. And it's not a part 477 00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:11,560 Speaker 1: that part of the money UM from the Yobian Union 478 00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:14,200 Speaker 1: as part of their Andrew beck Age is on the 479 00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:17,960 Speaker 1: just position from for instance, because that's some things that 480 00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:21,600 Speaker 1: are already very aware. Yeah, the just transition, so making 481 00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:24,480 Speaker 1: sure that it doesn't just involve hiking the price of 482 00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:28,440 Speaker 1: energy and having it effect lower income households worse worse 483 00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:31,600 Speaker 1: than others. Um that's clearly is a very important piece 484 00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:41,520 Speaker 1: of that, maybe, Causina, thanks so much. Thank you. That's 485 00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:44,200 Speaker 1: it for this episode of Stephanomics, but do follow at 486 00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:47,240 Speaker 1: Economics on Twitter for a lot more news and analysis 487 00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:51,560 Speaker 1: from Bloomberg Economics. This episode was produced by Magnus Hendrickson, 488 00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:55,880 Speaker 1: with special thanks to John Kerry Maybel Cuzin, Karen and Look, 489 00:32:56,160 --> 00:33:00,959 Speaker 1: Claudia Madler, and Catherine Bosley. Mike Sasso as executive producer 490 00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:04,440 Speaker 1: of Stephanomics and the head of Bloomberg Podcast is Francesco 491 00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:19,360 Speaker 1: Levy m h M.