1
00:00:08,960 --> 00:00:13,320
Speaker 1: This is Me Eater podcast coming in you shirtless, severely

2
00:00:13,440 --> 00:00:18,599
Speaker 1: bug bitten in my case underwear listening podcast. You Can't

3
00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:22,680
Speaker 1: Predict Anything presented by on X Hunt creators are the

4
00:00:22,680 --> 00:00:26,479
Speaker 1: most comprehensive digital mapping system for hunters. Download the Hunt

5
00:00:26,520 --> 00:00:29,680
Speaker 1: app from the iTunes or Google play store. Nor where

6
00:00:29,680 --> 00:00:35,560
Speaker 1: you stand with on x. Okay, we're joined here today

7
00:00:35,640 --> 00:00:39,520
Speaker 1: by special guest Carter Smith, Executive director of Texans Park

8
00:00:39,720 --> 00:00:42,760
Speaker 1: Texas Parks and Wildlife Department. Yeah. Great to be with

9
00:00:42,840 --> 00:00:46,239
Speaker 1: you all. Uh, I'm gonna I'm gonna like ask ask

10
00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:48,360
Speaker 1: them easy questions to start. The first question I have

11
00:00:48,440 --> 00:00:57,040
Speaker 1: is not easy. You're aware of how um, how people

12
00:00:57,120 --> 00:01:02,280
Speaker 1: who don't live in Texas are often baffled by Texas.

13
00:01:03,960 --> 00:01:10,440
Speaker 1: The the the number of um animals and just it's

14
00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:12,800
Speaker 1: bewildering to be. Yeah, the scale, the diversity. You had

15
00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:15,119
Speaker 1: a bit of a mythology around all that in there. Yeah. Yeah,

16
00:01:15,520 --> 00:01:17,240
Speaker 1: And you can be driving down the road and there's

17
00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:20,920
Speaker 1: a zebra standing there. It's just we hear. It's that's

18
00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:22,480
Speaker 1: why it's gonna be down here, because we hear from

19
00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:25,720
Speaker 1: so many people, you know, people right in and we

20
00:01:25,800 --> 00:01:29,440
Speaker 1: here from so many people who have they speak about

21
00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:32,880
Speaker 1: like people from the Northern Tier States whatever speak about

22
00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:37,760
Speaker 1: Texas as though they're asking about another country. Yeah. Yeah,

23
00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:39,760
Speaker 1: and so it's good to come down and talk to

24
00:01:41,280 --> 00:01:44,440
Speaker 1: the official I don't like to go by the official

25
00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:47,400
Speaker 1: voice of Texas. Yeah, I'm not quite that formal formal stage.

26
00:01:47,440 --> 00:01:49,360
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, well I'm gonna ask you to cut

27
00:01:49,360 --> 00:01:54,000
Speaker 1: that immediately. You're you're from here, right, I am, Yeah,

28
00:01:54,080 --> 00:01:55,800
Speaker 1: grew up here. It's got up one foot in the shitty,

29
00:01:55,840 --> 00:01:59,320
Speaker 1: one foot in the country called Allston home our family

30
00:01:59,800 --> 00:02:02,440
Speaker 1: right and farmed in central and South Texas, and and

31
00:02:02,480 --> 00:02:05,120
Speaker 1: so it was kind of the best of both worlds.

32
00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:07,920
Speaker 1: Ran a cattle ranch. We did, yeah, calfe operation and

33
00:02:07,920 --> 00:02:13,200
Speaker 1: and um my really uncle took full responsibility for that

34
00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:16,520
Speaker 1: when we played a part is as well. Um it

35
00:02:16,600 --> 00:02:18,880
Speaker 1: was kind of interesting growing up to see my cousins

36
00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:22,280
Speaker 1: really gravitate more to the bag side. You know. I

37
00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:24,680
Speaker 1: was always a lot more interested in you know, trapping

38
00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:27,320
Speaker 1: hogs and you know, catching bull frogs and that kind

39
00:02:27,320 --> 00:02:31,600
Speaker 1: of thing. So so let's just support your cafe operation. No, no,

40
00:02:31,760 --> 00:02:34,680
Speaker 1: that was a separate operation. And so there was there

41
00:02:34,760 --> 00:02:38,359
Speaker 1: was just a dry land row crop operation, Sorghum and

42
00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:41,799
Speaker 1: corn um Lee sat out to a neighbor that have

43
00:02:41,880 --> 00:02:44,960
Speaker 1: been there forever um and so and then we had

44
00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:47,079
Speaker 1: a little cattle operation off on that off to the

45
00:02:47,120 --> 00:02:50,000
Speaker 1: side on that place as well. And uh and so

46
00:02:50,120 --> 00:02:52,440
Speaker 1: you know, that's really where I discovered the outdoors growing up.

47
00:02:52,440 --> 00:02:54,800
Speaker 1: All my my friends love to punt and fish and

48
00:02:54,840 --> 00:02:57,800
Speaker 1: be outside. That was pretty pretty natural, you know. Thankfully

49
00:02:57,800 --> 00:02:59,760
Speaker 1: I had this blessed childhood where I had places to

50
00:02:59,800 --> 00:03:03,280
Speaker 1: go and could also take take friends. But um, it

51
00:03:03,360 --> 00:03:06,400
Speaker 1: was a pretty easy assimilation into the outdoors. Not so

52
00:03:06,480 --> 00:03:10,120
Speaker 1: much for kids today. Did you guys on your guys properties,

53
00:03:10,200 --> 00:03:15,680
Speaker 1: you guys involved in the oil and gas to impression tests. Yeah, yeah, well,

54
00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:17,639
Speaker 1: and you know, obviously you know, you look right now

55
00:03:17,680 --> 00:03:19,760
Speaker 1: what's going on in the Permian um and it has

56
00:03:19,840 --> 00:03:25,360
Speaker 1: dramatically changed the energy landscape. Just a huge voluminous production

57
00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:28,480
Speaker 1: of oil and gas out in out in West Texas.

58
00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:33,360
Speaker 1: You know all of those notions of energy independence, um.

59
00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:35,000
Speaker 1: And you know the fact that you have now the

60
00:03:35,120 --> 00:03:38,360
Speaker 1: US as an exporter of oil and gas. You know,

61
00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:40,880
Speaker 1: the the amount of production that's coming out of West Texas,

62
00:03:40,960 --> 00:03:44,480
Speaker 1: it's just astronomical, um. But yeah, the the ranch of

63
00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:47,720
Speaker 1: my father grew up on UM and that where I

64
00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:50,280
Speaker 1: spent a good part of my childhood. You know, there

65
00:03:50,320 --> 00:03:53,520
Speaker 1: was legacy production that um you know went back to

66
00:03:53,560 --> 00:03:56,120
Speaker 1: the forties and fifties and some that was you know,

67
00:03:56,200 --> 00:03:59,160
Speaker 1: during during our lifetime, and UM, you know it was

68
00:03:59,160 --> 00:04:02,080
Speaker 1: always the trick is to balance that with the other

69
00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:04,800
Speaker 1: things going on at the ranch, um and uh, make

70
00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:08,160
Speaker 1: sure that there was a a coexistence. But I certainly

71
00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:10,160
Speaker 1: don't want to give the listeners an impression that all

72
00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:13,520
Speaker 1: of Texas is covered with pump jack's. You know, it's

73
00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:16,520
Speaker 1: not their hot spots where oil and gas is produced.

74
00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:20,359
Speaker 1: It's it's it's a critical resource for the stake generates

75
00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:24,080
Speaker 1: lots of revenues, you might imagine lots of lots of jobs.

76
00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:27,120
Speaker 1: But UM, it's not as if that's an activity that

77
00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:30,279
Speaker 1: blankets the entire state. It's localized obviously, where the oil

78
00:04:30,279 --> 00:04:32,400
Speaker 1: and gas is and where it's viable to get out

79
00:04:32,400 --> 00:04:34,720
Speaker 1: of the get out of the earth. Did you when

80
00:04:34,960 --> 00:04:36,560
Speaker 1: you were young, did you know you're gonna go into

81
00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:41,560
Speaker 1: wild I didn't. Um, you know it's I really I

82
00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:45,239
Speaker 1: didn't have a good sense that, um, you could pursue

83
00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:48,719
Speaker 1: that is a vocation later on, Yeah, you know, it's funny.

84
00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:50,039
Speaker 1: When we were kids, like some man of the kids,

85
00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:51,720
Speaker 1: like the Hunting Fish, the only thing you could think

86
00:04:51,760 --> 00:04:54,120
Speaker 1: of is everyone would say that they're gonna be a

87
00:04:54,120 --> 00:04:56,599
Speaker 1: game Yeah right. It's like, I don't know, it seems

88
00:04:56,600 --> 00:05:00,040
Speaker 1: like is aware of yeah well, and you know, to

89
00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:02,520
Speaker 1: be fair, I had that too growing up. UM. There

90
00:05:02,560 --> 00:05:04,280
Speaker 1: was a game boarding in Zalez County and one of

91
00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:06,880
Speaker 1: Williamson County that were you know, at the palace and

92
00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:10,000
Speaker 1: the farming ranch all the all the time. They're wonderful mentors,

93
00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:13,240
Speaker 1: wonderful role models. But you know, Steve, really i'd say

94
00:05:13,240 --> 00:05:16,480
Speaker 1: it was college UM, and I was sort of mandering

95
00:05:16,480 --> 00:05:19,280
Speaker 1: my way through trying to figure out what I wanted

96
00:05:19,320 --> 00:05:20,760
Speaker 1: to do. No one full well, I didn't want to

97
00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:23,960
Speaker 1: go to law school UM. And I sat down one

98
00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:26,280
Speaker 1: evening with a Parks and Wildlife game boarden and a

99
00:05:26,320 --> 00:05:28,680
Speaker 1: Parks and Wildlife wildlife biologist and that was really the

100
00:05:28,720 --> 00:05:31,800
Speaker 1: epiphany that you know, I could pursue that is a

101
00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:35,440
Speaker 1: is a vocation. And I wouldn't talk to a couple

102
00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:40,000
Speaker 1: of my biology professors at the University of Texas and UM,

103
00:05:40,040 --> 00:05:41,880
Speaker 1: and they said, you know, if you're really interested in

104
00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:45,440
Speaker 1: pursuing wildlife biology or wildlife management. You need to transfer

105
00:05:45,520 --> 00:05:48,760
Speaker 1: to another school that has more of an applied resource

106
00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:51,880
Speaker 1: management program. And so one of them said, go west

107
00:05:51,880 --> 00:05:54,000
Speaker 1: young man to soul Ross. And I said, well, where's

108
00:05:54,040 --> 00:05:56,480
Speaker 1: that And they said, that's an alpine in far west Texas.

109
00:05:56,560 --> 00:05:59,760
Speaker 1: And so I, you know, dutifully looked it up. Small school,

110
00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:03,560
Speaker 1: this kind of rich history and geology and wildlife and

111
00:06:03,640 --> 00:06:06,800
Speaker 1: transferred to soul Ross and and then left school for

112
00:06:06,839 --> 00:06:09,360
Speaker 1: a while to actually come work for Parts and Wildlife

113
00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:11,680
Speaker 1: on one of their wildlife management areas. And a couple

114
00:06:11,720 --> 00:06:14,520
Speaker 1: of professors from Texas Tech who were doing research on

115
00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:17,840
Speaker 1: the wildlife management area convince me that, you know, Luck,

116
00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:19,560
Speaker 1: you really need to go back school, finish up your

117
00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:21,960
Speaker 1: degree and wildlife management. Why don't you come to Lovebuck.

118
00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:24,159
Speaker 1: Let us show you around campus. Um you don't have

119
00:06:24,240 --> 00:06:25,920
Speaker 1: that much to go. That's thee was a rule, now,

120
00:06:25,960 --> 00:06:28,320
Speaker 1: isn't it. Yeah, it really is. It's you mean to

121
00:06:28,360 --> 00:06:32,760
Speaker 1: get it like administrative level stuff, and you know it's

122
00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:36,200
Speaker 1: there's certainly a lot of folks that have taken that trajectory.

123
00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:40,159
Speaker 1: UM I wouldn't but the graduate program and certainly if

124
00:06:40,160 --> 00:06:43,360
Speaker 1: you're gonna get employed, UM as a biologist with a

125
00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:45,680
Speaker 1: state fish and Wildlife agency, you need a mattress degree

126
00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:48,600
Speaker 1: for sure. It's just so hyper competitive. UM. And then

127
00:06:48,640 --> 00:06:50,240
Speaker 1: candidly here, if you want to be a game board,

128
00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:52,040
Speaker 1: you've got to have a college degree. Now that there's

129
00:06:52,040 --> 00:06:55,000
Speaker 1: no requirement that it's in criminal justice or fisher reaeson,

130
00:06:55,040 --> 00:06:58,080
Speaker 1: wildlife management or psychology or maybe any of the other

131
00:06:58,120 --> 00:07:01,360
Speaker 1: fields you might think of or phil with with UM

132
00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:04,560
Speaker 1: law enforcement. But you gotta have a college degree. UM.

133
00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:07,600
Speaker 1: And that's a very important, I think distinguishing factor for

134
00:07:07,640 --> 00:07:11,360
Speaker 1: our force. But yeah, the the advanced degree if you

135
00:07:11,400 --> 00:07:13,960
Speaker 1: want to go into the biological sciences and and get

136
00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:17,400
Speaker 1: into fish reason wildlife management. It's just so so competitive

137
00:07:17,440 --> 00:07:19,520
Speaker 1: these days. It's just about imperative. That's what drives it

138
00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:21,800
Speaker 1: in your minds, is the competition. Yeah, not like a

139
00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:25,600
Speaker 1: not like a it's not a prerequisite for applications. Well,

140
00:07:25,880 --> 00:07:28,040
Speaker 1: there is a prerex sid I mean typically we'll say

141
00:07:28,080 --> 00:07:30,840
Speaker 1: preferred UM, you know, and so and you know, we've

142
00:07:30,880 --> 00:07:33,840
Speaker 1: got plenty of biologists that UM that have undergraduate degrees

143
00:07:33,880 --> 00:07:36,200
Speaker 1: and excel inside the agency, and then we have plenty

144
00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:38,520
Speaker 1: of post docs. So it it runs the gamut on

145
00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:42,120
Speaker 1: the continuum. But on average, I'd say, UM, these days,

146
00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:44,920
Speaker 1: competing for a state Fish and Wildlife agency job, that

147
00:07:44,920 --> 00:07:48,000
Speaker 1: that that at least a master job is going to help, UM,

148
00:07:48,360 --> 00:07:51,360
Speaker 1: give you a little extra chance, and in in what

149
00:07:51,560 --> 00:07:53,840
Speaker 1: is a very very competitive field. And you went off

150
00:07:53,880 --> 00:07:56,080
Speaker 1: to Yale, I did, I did? There must have been

151
00:07:56,120 --> 00:08:01,880
Speaker 1: a real shots, yeah, right, exactly. Yeah. If somebody said

152
00:08:01,880 --> 00:08:05,120
Speaker 1: I took a wrong turn in Waco. Uh, but you

153
00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:07,040
Speaker 1: know that? Did I feel pretty? We were you well

154
00:08:07,080 --> 00:08:10,240
Speaker 1: traveled or were you pretty to spent your life around Texas? No? No,

155
00:08:10,320 --> 00:08:12,400
Speaker 1: I mean I I had. I wouldn't say I was

156
00:08:12,440 --> 00:08:14,000
Speaker 1: well traveled, but I've been outside of the state and

157
00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:16,440
Speaker 1: now outside the country. Um. And I was excited about

158
00:08:16,440 --> 00:08:19,920
Speaker 1: a challenge. Um, and candidly when I was kind of

159
00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:24,320
Speaker 1: making my mandors through college, which was a very circuitous um,

160
00:08:24,440 --> 00:08:29,320
Speaker 1: of course. Um. Before leaving Tech, I had applied to

161
00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:32,199
Speaker 1: Yale and gotten in and then decided that I didn't

162
00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:34,480
Speaker 1: want to do that, finished up my degree, came to

163
00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:39,280
Speaker 1: work for Parks and Wildlife UM, and was here for oh,

164
00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:41,960
Speaker 1: I guess almost two years, and realized I needed to

165
00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:45,560
Speaker 1: go get that advanced degree, and Parks and Wildlife was

166
00:08:46,040 --> 00:08:48,080
Speaker 1: looking at creating a position where I could go to

167
00:08:48,160 --> 00:08:51,040
Speaker 1: a and m U, pursue my masters and continue work

168
00:08:51,120 --> 00:08:53,600
Speaker 1: full time with the department, which was a huge opportunity.

169
00:08:54,480 --> 00:08:57,959
Speaker 1: But I went ahead and decided to UM pursue UM

170
00:08:58,200 --> 00:09:01,480
Speaker 1: admissions again into Yale end UM. I went in to

171
00:09:01,559 --> 00:09:04,560
Speaker 1: talk to Bob Cook, who was the Wildlife Division director

172
00:09:04,920 --> 00:09:07,400
Speaker 1: at the time and interestingly enough was my predecessor as

173
00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:13,480
Speaker 1: the executive director and UM, and Bob said, Carter, We've

174
00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:16,960
Speaker 1: got a terrific opportunity for you at college station. UM.

175
00:09:17,080 --> 00:09:19,719
Speaker 1: I think it would work out very well. But I'm

176
00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:21,599
Speaker 1: gonna take my parts and whild iife had off and

177
00:09:21,640 --> 00:09:23,960
Speaker 1: if you were my son, I'd tell you to go east. UM.

178
00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:25,320
Speaker 1: You need to go do that. You need to have

179
00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:28,200
Speaker 1: a different experience in your life. Go go experience a

180
00:09:28,200 --> 00:09:32,479
Speaker 1: different culture, group of people, different type of education. UM.

181
00:09:32,520 --> 00:09:33,880
Speaker 1: And I think it will put you in good stead.

182
00:09:33,880 --> 00:09:36,120
Speaker 1: And what you did so I did? I mean, I

183
00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:41,880
Speaker 1: was terrified, absolutely, yeah, but I loved it. Uh. You know,

184
00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:46,160
Speaker 1: wonderful university. UM. Lots of people from all over the globe,

185
00:09:46,360 --> 00:09:50,480
Speaker 1: very stimulating intellectually. UM. And there I had a chance

186
00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:54,120
Speaker 1: to meet a professor that really became a professional mentor

187
00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:57,200
Speaker 1: for me Um a guy named Steve Kellert Um and

188
00:09:57,800 --> 00:10:01,640
Speaker 1: Dr Kellert and E. O. Wilson and wrote that biofella

189
00:10:01,760 --> 00:10:06,679
Speaker 1: you work. Yeah, that would be a stretch, but I

190
00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:10,840
Speaker 1: did how he popularized that term biophelia. We talked about

191
00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:13,360
Speaker 1: him my brothers in the college. He reads a lot

192
00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:17,360
Speaker 1: of Oilson. Yeah, yeah, well you know what he was

193
00:10:17,360 --> 00:10:19,079
Speaker 1: that he passed away? No, No, he is. He's still

194
00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:21,720
Speaker 1: he's still alive. Um. And I think he's retired from Harvard.

195
00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:24,120
Speaker 1: I mean he's probably still a professor emeritus or something.

196
00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:27,040
Speaker 1: You know, I'll never forget. He's written so much on

197
00:10:27,080 --> 00:10:31,640
Speaker 1: so many subjects. Just what an intellectual giant um and uh.

198
00:10:31,720 --> 00:10:33,440
Speaker 1: And there was something that he wrote one tie that

199
00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:35,400
Speaker 1: always stuck with me. The little guys, the little guys

200
00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:37,240
Speaker 1: that ruled the world, you know. And of course he

201
00:10:37,280 --> 00:10:40,440
Speaker 1: was an invertebrate biologist, and so I loved dance and

202
00:10:40,520 --> 00:10:42,760
Speaker 1: all the little things. And when you think about you know,

203
00:10:42,840 --> 00:10:46,800
Speaker 1: soul health and just the criticality of of of of

204
00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:50,760
Speaker 1: microbes and the huge amount of biological diversity in our soil,

205
00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:53,959
Speaker 1: and how that's just really the foundation for for everything.

206
00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:57,600
Speaker 1: He was certainly spot on people that I mean just

207
00:10:57,800 --> 00:11:00,000
Speaker 1: listeners that are curious for your talking about you can

208
00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:03,480
Speaker 1: look up these comparisons of you know, if you took

209
00:11:03,520 --> 00:11:07,000
Speaker 1: everything if you imagine all animal life like in an

210
00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:09,600
Speaker 1: area and made a put in the pile, and then

211
00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:11,600
Speaker 1: took all animal life out of the soil and put

212
00:11:11,640 --> 00:11:13,679
Speaker 1: it in a pile, like the comparison of sizes, and

213
00:11:13,679 --> 00:11:15,120
Speaker 1: then you get into stuff like if you took all

214
00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:17,640
Speaker 1: the beatles in the world and put them in a pile,

215
00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:20,480
Speaker 1: that the pile is bigger than all the humans and

216
00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:23,079
Speaker 1: large mammals, and you know, pretty dramatic and it's funny,

217
00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:27,600
Speaker 1: like you just you don't perceive the world that way. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

218
00:11:27,640 --> 00:11:30,080
Speaker 1: Well another good comparison to that is like the tall

219
00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:32,319
Speaker 1: grass parrot. You know, you look at those big, expansive

220
00:11:32,400 --> 00:11:35,280
Speaker 1: tall grasses and then you dig up the root system

221
00:11:35,559 --> 00:11:39,120
Speaker 1: and uh and what's on top of the whole pales

222
00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:43,160
Speaker 1: in comparison to what's beneath iceberg. That's right, that's right. Yeah.

223
00:11:43,160 --> 00:11:47,560
Speaker 1: The other issutingly thinking about Yale that um was was um.

224
00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:50,400
Speaker 1: I mean I knew it before going there, but of

225
00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:53,280
Speaker 1: course it's were aldo leopolg um, and so in the

226
00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:57,400
Speaker 1: university very proud of that connection and that that ethic,

227
00:11:57,559 --> 00:12:01,160
Speaker 1: and you know Gifford Pincho's time there, and and so

228
00:12:01,280 --> 00:12:04,160
Speaker 1: there's been a lot of folks along history that went

229
00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:05,760
Speaker 1: to school there, and you know, a lot of them

230
00:12:05,800 --> 00:12:09,480
Speaker 1: you know, more in kind of policy related um um positions.

231
00:12:09,559 --> 00:12:12,280
Speaker 1: But Steve Keller was just one of the brilliant thinkers,

232
00:12:12,320 --> 00:12:18,800
Speaker 1: really interested in the human wildlife interface and people's attitudes

233
00:12:18,960 --> 00:12:23,480
Speaker 1: towards wildlife and nature. And you know, I think for

234
00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:27,600
Speaker 1: anybody that goes into a career in fisheries or wildlife

235
00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:31,600
Speaker 1: management or conservational law enforcement, you quickly find out that

236
00:12:31,640 --> 00:12:34,240
Speaker 1: most of your work has spent dealing with people, not creditters.

237
00:12:34,360 --> 00:12:36,560
Speaker 1: It's really funny you mention next. We had a leading

238
00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:41,839
Speaker 1: mountain lion biologist on recently and he like in being circumspects. Yeah,

239
00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:45,319
Speaker 1: He's like, you know, I mostly deal with people. Yeah,

240
00:12:45,800 --> 00:12:50,400
Speaker 1: I'd rather deal with lines, but I'm dealing with people. Yeah. Yeah,

241
00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:53,000
Speaker 1: I'd rather deal with deer, but I mostly deal with people. Yeah. Yeah.

242
00:12:53,360 --> 00:12:57,120
Speaker 1: Were you familiar with the writings of Aldo Leopold before

243
00:12:57,280 --> 00:12:59,559
Speaker 1: before you went to school Sad County? You know, I

244
00:12:59,640 --> 00:13:02,280
Speaker 1: grew up all that kind of stuff. Well a little later,

245
00:13:02,520 --> 00:13:05,560
Speaker 1: I you know that that that came to me in college.

246
00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:08,320
Speaker 1: I think the Saint Kenny Almanac was was actually a

247
00:13:08,440 --> 00:13:11,040
Speaker 1: literature class. I had it at first all I went

248
00:13:11,080 --> 00:13:15,000
Speaker 1: to Swann University of South and UM and it just

249
00:13:15,160 --> 00:13:19,479
Speaker 1: really resonated with me. I mean his prose was so elegant.

250
00:13:19,559 --> 00:13:22,959
Speaker 1: I mean it was so compelling, and he just wrote

251
00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:26,920
Speaker 1: about the outdoors in ways that really spoke to me,

252
00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:29,400
Speaker 1: um and in ways that no one had done and

253
00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:31,720
Speaker 1: no one had done. Yeah yeah. And what's interesting about

254
00:13:31,720 --> 00:13:34,120
Speaker 1: that writing is it's timeless, right. I mean we read

255
00:13:34,120 --> 00:13:38,080
Speaker 1: it today and we thank god that was written, you know,

256
00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:41,280
Speaker 1: seventy years ago or so, and it's as relevant today

257
00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:45,320
Speaker 1: as it was in anything in there. I reread it

258
00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:50,319
Speaker 1: now and then anything in there that feels dated, it's

259
00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:54,040
Speaker 1: not actually dated, but it almost feels prophetic, like like

260
00:13:54,200 --> 00:13:57,480
Speaker 1: the most of it feels like everything feels relevant and now,

261
00:13:57,520 --> 00:13:59,560
Speaker 1: and then you read something and it feels like, man,

262
00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:03,760
Speaker 1: he really was looking kind of forward or and I say,

263
00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:05,720
Speaker 1: it's so much prophetic. We're talking about things that wanted

264
00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:08,679
Speaker 1: being proving to be pretty timeless. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Well

265
00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:10,840
Speaker 1: I think the whole stewardship ethic, you know, and of

266
00:14:10,840 --> 00:14:13,160
Speaker 1: course at a private land state like Texas. Um, that's

267
00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:15,360
Speaker 1: very Germaine to what we what we do. And I

268
00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:20,120
Speaker 1: think Aldo Leopold wrote very very persuasively and movingly about

269
00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:22,920
Speaker 1: the criticality of that ethic and making sure we do

270
00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:25,480
Speaker 1: everything we can to help foster and engender that in

271
00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:28,680
Speaker 1: our in our private lands managers and our private landowners.

272
00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:31,200
Speaker 1: And so when you say private land state, US are

273
00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:35,240
Speaker 1: in the nineties, yeah, and you know, proudly so, I

274
00:14:35,280 --> 00:14:37,200
Speaker 1: mean that's part of the kind of the rich tradition

275
00:14:37,280 --> 00:14:40,960
Speaker 1: of of Texas and so um, we're a very proudly

276
00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:44,280
Speaker 1: private lands state. And and also you know, certainly from

277
00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:47,800
Speaker 1: a conservation perspective here in Texas, if you're gonna get

278
00:14:47,840 --> 00:14:51,520
Speaker 1: anything done any kind of a meaningful scale in Texas,

279
00:14:51,560 --> 00:14:53,680
Speaker 1: it needs to be in concert and partnership with with

280
00:14:53,720 --> 00:14:57,080
Speaker 1: private landowners. And so that's a big driver for us. Well,

281
00:14:57,080 --> 00:14:58,840
Speaker 1: I imagine, I mean just that you know, you have

282
00:14:58,920 --> 00:15:00,600
Speaker 1: to be realistic about it. I'm sure there's plenty of

283
00:15:00,640 --> 00:15:03,080
Speaker 1: people that would like to have some more public land

284
00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:07,080
Speaker 1: opportunities in a state like this. Wildlife conservation is gonna happen.

285
00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:11,320
Speaker 1: It's gonna happen on private lands. It's where yeah, yeah,

286
00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:13,560
Speaker 1: you bet. I don't want to skip too much, but

287
00:15:14,160 --> 00:15:16,720
Speaker 1: you wanted with the Nature Conservancy. I did. Yeah, yeah,

288
00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:18,520
Speaker 1: I worked for the Nature Conservancy and that was kind

289
00:15:18,520 --> 00:15:21,400
Speaker 1: of an interesting transition. I um. When I left Yale,

290
00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:23,640
Speaker 1: I was up in Canada for a while, up in

291
00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:28,320
Speaker 1: the boreal forest, um way hoose work, which is pretty

292
00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:32,320
Speaker 1: interesting and uh. And then I got talked into coming

293
00:15:32,360 --> 00:15:35,120
Speaker 1: back to Texas from some interestingly enough, some parts and

294
00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:41,160
Speaker 1: wildlife biologist friends that were really concerned about the development

295
00:15:41,160 --> 00:15:43,280
Speaker 1: of the Katie Perrie west of Houston and just a

296
00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:48,880
Speaker 1: waterfowl mecca, historic prairie wetland areas, lots of rice farming

297
00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:51,400
Speaker 1: at the time. But Houston was, you know, on its

298
00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:55,840
Speaker 1: inexorable march westward and um and there was a need

299
00:15:55,960 --> 00:15:59,360
Speaker 1: for kind of a nature conservancy like organization that could

300
00:15:59,360 --> 00:16:02,480
Speaker 1: work with parties to try to help protect some of

301
00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:06,040
Speaker 1: that habitat before it all became impervious cover. It's so

302
00:16:06,640 --> 00:16:10,760
Speaker 1: I got in pervious so so so just like this tabletop,

303
00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:14,120
Speaker 1: you know, the parking lot, the asphalt, nothing gets like

304
00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:20,600
Speaker 1: yeah yeah and so um and so Houston's moving west,

305
00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:25,560
Speaker 1: You've got all this valuable rice farm habitat, wetlands, residual prairie,

306
00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:29,480
Speaker 1: tons of waterfowl. UM. But you know, the concern was

307
00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:31,840
Speaker 1: it was gonna get paved over unless there was somebody

308
00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:35,320
Speaker 1: actively working to go out and work with landowners to

309
00:16:35,320 --> 00:16:38,440
Speaker 1: try to figure out a way to conserve it. So interestingly,

310
00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:43,200
Speaker 1: a group of waterfowl guides uh, rice farmers UM, a

311
00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:47,160
Speaker 1: couple of developers, real estate attorneys, UM, and some of

312
00:16:47,520 --> 00:16:50,200
Speaker 1: Houston's got the middle of the road conservationists said we

313
00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:54,640
Speaker 1: need to create a land trust like organization. That was

314
00:16:54,680 --> 00:16:56,760
Speaker 1: the coalition. Yeah, it's pretty cool. So they credit this

315
00:16:56,840 --> 00:16:59,600
Speaker 1: Katie Perry conservance. Real quick. Oh you know what, hold

316
00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:02,040
Speaker 1: that thought, all hold the thought? What were you looking

317
00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:05,040
Speaker 1: at with moos? So we were looking at a variety

318
00:17:05,080 --> 00:17:07,880
Speaker 1: of things and is kind of this concept about trophic

319
00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:11,840
Speaker 1: cascades and whether or not systems were controlled top down

320
00:17:11,880 --> 00:17:16,359
Speaker 1: through her beavery or more bottom up through nutrient related considerations.

321
00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:18,600
Speaker 1: And at the who's in the driver's Yeah, kind of

322
00:17:18,600 --> 00:17:21,000
Speaker 1: who's in the driver's seat and so in and you

323
00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:25,600
Speaker 1: know how our forest management practices UM contributing to either um,

324
00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:29,719
Speaker 1: you know, helping or hurting moose populations. And there was

325
00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:33,520
Speaker 1: this this this Kotaria Universities that was working up on

326
00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:37,439
Speaker 1: a Cree Indian reservation UM with funding from the National

327
00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:39,600
Speaker 1: Science Foundation, and so they were looking at a wide

328
00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:43,280
Speaker 1: variety of things. And it was University of Saskatchewan, University

329
00:17:43,280 --> 00:17:46,640
Speaker 1: of British Columbia, University of Washington, Harvard, Yale, a couple

330
00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:48,840
Speaker 1: of couple of others, and so there were there were

331
00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:53,080
Speaker 1: professors and grad students from all over UM and we

332
00:17:53,119 --> 00:17:56,800
Speaker 1: lived on this Kre Indian reservation and UM and and

333
00:17:56,840 --> 00:18:01,040
Speaker 1: worked very closely with the First Nations Community, UM, the

334
00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:04,159
Speaker 1: Saskatchewan provincial government on a variety of kind of research

335
00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:08,760
Speaker 1: related topics. And my job was to help kind of

336
00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:12,760
Speaker 1: keep all of that going. There were certain uh numbers

337
00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:15,320
Speaker 1: from the community that we had to hire for jobs

338
00:18:15,359 --> 00:18:20,280
Speaker 1: associated with the research. When researchers in their grad students

339
00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:21,920
Speaker 1: would come up, I'd have to help them kind of

340
00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:25,040
Speaker 1: get acclimated and help them get their research projects get

341
00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:28,000
Speaker 1: get set up. And so he was a pretty eclectic

342
00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:30,360
Speaker 1: mix of things that we were we were we were

343
00:18:30,359 --> 00:18:33,840
Speaker 1: studying the moose stuff, obviously is what caught my attention

344
00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:37,000
Speaker 1: the most, because I knew so little about moose before

345
00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:38,919
Speaker 1: I got up there, and it was just interesting to

346
00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:41,240
Speaker 1: be around a big game animal that was so you

347
00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:44,600
Speaker 1: know iconic um in those in those in those forests,

348
00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:47,399
Speaker 1: and yeah, I'll always treasure that time. Just uh but

349
00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:49,919
Speaker 1: the culture shock was about like going to New Haven, Connecticut.

350
00:18:50,080 --> 00:18:54,080
Speaker 1: Uh so in the other direction, in the other direction. Yeah. Yeah,

351
00:18:54,080 --> 00:18:56,080
Speaker 1: So anyway, and I ended up making my way back

352
00:18:56,119 --> 00:18:59,680
Speaker 1: to Katie at the behest of of of folks here

353
00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:02,200
Speaker 1: to help start this land trust, which I knew absolutely

354
00:19:02,320 --> 00:19:04,640
Speaker 1: what was the Yeah, when you talk about the land

355
00:19:04,640 --> 00:19:07,439
Speaker 1: trust for Katy Prairie, what was the what was the

356
00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:11,960
Speaker 1: developer participants? You know, so the developer participation were really

357
00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:14,960
Speaker 1: a couple faults of Syrah Club was suing everybody over

358
00:19:15,560 --> 00:19:17,800
Speaker 1: you know, development of wet lands, violations of the Clean

359
00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:19,800
Speaker 1: Water Act. I mean it was World War three over

360
00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:22,520
Speaker 1: there on the on the on the Katie Perry um.

361
00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:24,760
Speaker 1: And so they were trying to find, let's create some

362
00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:27,760
Speaker 1: organization in the radical center that can apply to everybody

363
00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:31,719
Speaker 1: that's doing something applied, pragmatic, getting something done. It's not

364
00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:36,760
Speaker 1: just a purely litigation oriented strategy. And um, you know,

365
00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:40,040
Speaker 1: and I would say it the the the area was

366
00:19:40,040 --> 00:19:43,200
Speaker 1: was pretty agricultural oriented, so it wasn't like a fit

367
00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:46,199
Speaker 1: for an organization like the Nature Conservancy. And so that

368
00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:49,880
Speaker 1: was the genesis for for for the land trust being created.

369
00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:53,040
Speaker 1: You mean men, the nature conservants is generally associated with

370
00:19:53,119 --> 00:19:58,120
Speaker 1: less disturbed less disturbed lands, Yeah, exactly. And and then

371
00:19:58,119 --> 00:20:00,199
Speaker 1: I think folks wanted wanted a group that it was

372
00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:03,119
Speaker 1: a local um. You know, it was locally driven. The

373
00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:06,880
Speaker 1: board was local, people knew who they were, representatives from

374
00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:10,520
Speaker 1: these different sectors that you know, kind of aligned around

375
00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:13,879
Speaker 1: a plan to help protect parts of that, Katy Perry.

376
00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:16,600
Speaker 1: And you know, to your question, the real estate developers

377
00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:19,159
Speaker 1: saw it as a as a quality of life issue.

378
00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:23,480
Speaker 1: They saw it also as an appreciation to real estate

379
00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:25,680
Speaker 1: is there was going to be development out there. There

380
00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:32,399
Speaker 1: is development out there, but having open spaces, parks, wildlife areas,

381
00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:34,680
Speaker 1: they saw that, or at least some of them saw

382
00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:38,600
Speaker 1: that as a value add to what inevitably was going

383
00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:42,399
Speaker 1: to be the you know, future growth of Houston. And

384
00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:44,399
Speaker 1: so having some of that preserved, they saw that as

385
00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:47,280
Speaker 1: a as a proverbial win win playing yeah, playing the

386
00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:50,280
Speaker 1: long game. And I'll tell you what's what's proved interesting

387
00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:54,600
Speaker 1: about that too. If you look at um Hurricane Harvey, UM,

388
00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:58,280
Speaker 1: when it perched over Houston and West Houston and dumped,

389
00:20:58,359 --> 00:21:02,280
Speaker 1: you know, fifty inches of rain. You know, that area

390
00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:07,000
Speaker 1: west of Houston, you know, becomes the receiving ground for

391
00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:10,399
Speaker 1: all of that rain. And the more that can slow down,

392
00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:14,040
Speaker 1: the more it can can penetrate into the soil percolate

393
00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:17,000
Speaker 1: down there. As opposed to just running off concrete into

394
00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:19,640
Speaker 1: a buy you, the less flooding it's gonna cost. So

395
00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:22,040
Speaker 1: so as it turned out. You know what the Katie

396
00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:25,280
Speaker 1: Perry Conservancy was doing when I started there, you know,

397
00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:29,600
Speaker 1: it's all about waterfowl and waterfowl habitat. Um. Today it's

398
00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:32,919
Speaker 1: a whole lot more about UH kind of an unconventional

399
00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:36,399
Speaker 1: flood control strategy and preserving open space to help with

400
00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:40,480
Speaker 1: attenuating UH floods into Houston in addition to protecting open

401
00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:43,560
Speaker 1: space and wildlife habitat and places that people can can

402
00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:46,760
Speaker 1: go to get outside people. Yeah, yeah, they still do,

403
00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:49,760
Speaker 1: which is terrific, you know, And um, we don't have

404
00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:53,240
Speaker 1: the huge amounts of snow geese that we used to have.

405
00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:56,320
Speaker 1: When I was there, those rice fields and wetlands were

406
00:21:56,359 --> 00:21:58,879
Speaker 1: just absolutely covered with snow geese. There was one of them.

407
00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:01,080
Speaker 1: But even that was an anomal though, right, well, it

408
00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:03,920
Speaker 1: was an anomaly because you know that rice attracted him,

409
00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:10,760
Speaker 1: and UM, I like that that. Yeah, yeah, just the Yeah,

410
00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:13,320
Speaker 1: a lot of them, Yeah, a lot of them, but

411
00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:15,639
Speaker 1: you know, lots of ducks of all stripes. You know,

412
00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:17,159
Speaker 1: we're here at the tip of the funnel on the

413
00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:20,320
Speaker 1: Central Flyway, so we get lots of waterfowl that that

414
00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:22,000
Speaker 1: come through here. And we spent a lot of time

415
00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:25,480
Speaker 1: here at the agency working to conserve waterfowl habitat and

416
00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:27,840
Speaker 1: and make sure we're doing our part along the along

417
00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:32,240
Speaker 1: the flyway and um. And so that Katie Purry provided

418
00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:35,720
Speaker 1: a pretty unique point a little further inland from the coast. Um.

419
00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:37,719
Speaker 1: But yeah, those big flocks of snow geese have kind

420
00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:39,800
Speaker 1: of gone away. Um, they seemed a lot of them

421
00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:41,760
Speaker 1: moved over to Arkansas where you still have a lot

422
00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:44,919
Speaker 1: of rice country. And yeah, we just don't have the numbers.

423
00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:48,880
Speaker 1: Did you. Did you keep up as an angler through

424
00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:51,840
Speaker 1: all this Yeah, yeah, no, I never lost that. Um.

425
00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:54,560
Speaker 1: And you know that certainly was my immersion in the

426
00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:57,560
Speaker 1: out of doors is loved up, you know, hunting fish

427
00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:00,480
Speaker 1: growing up. If I could, you know, died funding, I

428
00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:03,159
Speaker 1: you know, I would be the peppist, you know, A

429
00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:05,280
Speaker 1: way to go. I think from my perspective, I just

430
00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:08,480
Speaker 1: I just love that, UM. But I've always tried to

431
00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:11,520
Speaker 1: make time for it. UM. Now, you know, to be fair,

432
00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:13,639
Speaker 1: you get a lot of folks that I love to

433
00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:15,320
Speaker 1: hunt fish and so I want to, you know, go

434
00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:17,800
Speaker 1: get a a have a career as a wildlife biologists

435
00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:19,960
Speaker 1: or a game warden. It's not like you've got a

436
00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:22,320
Speaker 1: lot of copious free time to do all that. Yeah,

437
00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:25,520
Speaker 1: so people get kind of disabused of that notion. It's

438
00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:28,200
Speaker 1: a professional job and you're gonna have to make time

439
00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:30,280
Speaker 1: just like anybody else to do the things you love.

440
00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:34,040
Speaker 1: Then you came here. Now, then I went to work

441
00:23:34,040 --> 00:23:38,359
Speaker 1: for the Nature Conservancy and UM, and so I was recruited,

442
00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:41,200
Speaker 1: UH go work for the Nature Conservancy in South Texas

443
00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:44,240
Speaker 1: and Northern Mexico's a project in the Lagana Mata tom

444
00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:47,680
Speaker 1: Alepis and look at the madri in Texas. UM looking

445
00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:51,760
Speaker 1: at kind of a binational conservation strategy with UM, and

446
00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:55,119
Speaker 1: they wanted somebody that could relate well to landowners and

447
00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:57,560
Speaker 1: would be comfortable. At the time working in Northern Mexico

448
00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:00,480
Speaker 1: is a different times. Then it's flamed by now and

449
00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:03,560
Speaker 1: so by national working in two countries UM and so

450
00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:07,520
Speaker 1: you know what's interesting about the Laguna Madre system. You know,

451
00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:12,200
Speaker 1: the one of the five largest hyper saline, super salty

452
00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:15,640
Speaker 1: lagoons in the world. You have it in South Texas

453
00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:18,600
Speaker 1: basically from Corpus to Brownsville. Then you've got the real

454
00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:22,359
Speaker 1: Grand and then you have the Mexican Laguna Madre south

455
00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:26,359
Speaker 1: of that, and they're both of them again super salty,

456
00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:31,359
Speaker 1: loaded with you know, red fish and trout and redheaded

457
00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:36,040
Speaker 1: ducks and peregrine falcons and kemps, ready sea turtles and

458
00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:39,359
Speaker 1: shore birds and wading birds and reddish eGRID. I mean,

459
00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:43,320
Speaker 1: it's just it's the amount of wildlife is stunning. Is

460
00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:45,200
Speaker 1: it in good shape on both sides of the border.

461
00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:51,000
Speaker 1: You know, there are um, there are there are differences. Um.

462
00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:53,280
Speaker 1: One of the things that I think has helped the

463
00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:58,199
Speaker 1: Texas side quite a bit is the big expanse of

464
00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:02,320
Speaker 1: ranch country, undeveloped branch country that borders the Laguna Madre.

465
00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:05,640
Speaker 1: So we're talking about the King Ranch, the Kennedy Ranch,

466
00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:09,240
Speaker 1: some of our state's most uh fabled in largest ranches.

467
00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:13,880
Speaker 1: And the fact that and in great shape and they

468
00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:18,160
Speaker 1: very actively manage those ranches for wildlife and conservation and

469
00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:21,400
Speaker 1: and range land health and so forth. Um. It's so

470
00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:25,960
Speaker 1: the lack of development along the Laguna Madre both um,

471
00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:28,840
Speaker 1: largely on the mainland side because of the big ranches,

472
00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:32,080
Speaker 1: but then of course podral And National Seashore, longest you know,

473
00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:35,880
Speaker 1: undeveloped stretch of barrier island in the world. UM, coupled

474
00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:39,439
Speaker 1: with another big swath of protected land that's part of

475
00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:42,880
Speaker 1: the US Fish and Wildlife Service Laguna Atascosa National Wildlife

476
00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:46,320
Speaker 1: Refuge on South Padrea Island means that, Um, you just

477
00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:48,800
Speaker 1: don't have a lot of developmental pressures in the Laguna

478
00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:51,880
Speaker 1: Madre until you get deep down into the into the

479
00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:55,439
Speaker 1: rear Grand Valley near the Mexico border. Um. It's so

480
00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:59,919
Speaker 1: Texas site pretty good shape. Um, you know, get into Mexico.

481
00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:04,960
Speaker 1: Oh that that that system um still biologically very unique.

482
00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:10,000
Speaker 1: Um fished awfully hard. Um because even like the one

483
00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:12,119
Speaker 1: you guys in Texas when it was such a slow

484
00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:15,080
Speaker 1: down on commercial red fish netting and stuff, they probably

485
00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:17,600
Speaker 1: those practices that probably continue to imagine they do they

486
00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:21,080
Speaker 1: continue down there. Um. You know, they'll put these big

487
00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:25,200
Speaker 1: nets across those little bayous and inlets and just hammer

488
00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:27,840
Speaker 1: the fish of all kinds, and you know, candidly. Our

489
00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:30,880
Speaker 1: gameboard spent a fair amount of time, um, dealing with

490
00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:35,080
Speaker 1: a legal Mexican commercial fishermen coming into Texas. And so

491
00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:37,240
Speaker 1: they'll come in these little pongas and they'll set these

492
00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:40,200
Speaker 1: long lines and they will hammer our you know, sharks

493
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:43,520
Speaker 1: and rechnaw because you're just flirting with a with a

494
00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:47,560
Speaker 1: you're flirting with a marine marine border. Yeah, and and

495
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:51,240
Speaker 1: they come over, they set their lines, and they come back,

496
00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:53,639
Speaker 1: and they get in and out and and it's a

497
00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:56,840
Speaker 1: real game of cat and mouse. Um. But it's that

498
00:26:56,840 --> 00:27:00,000
Speaker 1: that pressure has really intensified over the years, I think

499
00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:02,600
Speaker 1: is you know, some of those fisheries in Mexico had

500
00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:05,640
Speaker 1: so much pressure on them that, um, it's just been

501
00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:07,560
Speaker 1: worth the risk to them to come over and try

502
00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:10,879
Speaker 1: to sneak across the international boundary and fish and Texas waters.

503
00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:13,480
Speaker 1: And so our our law enforcement team spends a lot

504
00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:15,840
Speaker 1: of work and making sure they're protecting our resources. In

505
00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:18,760
Speaker 1: that record, hey uh yeah, hit him with the question

506
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:21,520
Speaker 1: you were talking about wanting to ask them what's out

507
00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:25,520
Speaker 1: of order? But it's now Yeah, I didn't know we

508
00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:30,200
Speaker 1: had an order. We'd like to keep it secret. Yeah, yeah,

509
00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:32,760
Speaker 1: there you go. No man, we're running through like, uh,

510
00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:35,919
Speaker 1: think about it like your childhood. Yeah, I say the

511
00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:37,840
Speaker 1: secret Yeah, no, I got it. I got we got

512
00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:41,240
Speaker 1: peeled off on international borders. Yeah, but we were wondering

513
00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:44,400
Speaker 1: how much you work in concert with like the Mexican

514
00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:48,080
Speaker 1: government now as Texas parks and wildlife with critters that

515
00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:50,439
Speaker 1: are you know, they're living that zone, might don't care

516
00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:54,440
Speaker 1: about whether yeah, exactly, they don't know migratory wat water phone.

517
00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:56,840
Speaker 1: It's got to be a conversation, right it is. Yeah, absolutely,

518
00:27:56,880 --> 00:28:00,119
Speaker 1: And in fact, we have a liasion that works here

519
00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:02,480
Speaker 1: UM whose sole job it is to um, you know,

520
00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:04,960
Speaker 1: kind of work with some of our international partners. And

521
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:07,440
Speaker 1: so a big part of her job has been with

522
00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:12,000
Speaker 1: working with our counterparts in Mexico on you know, fisheries

523
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:15,400
Speaker 1: and wildlife issues. And you're right, you know, bighorn sheep

524
00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:18,879
Speaker 1: or redheaded ducks could care less whether or not you know,

525
00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:22,280
Speaker 1: they're in the Wevley owned um or you know, West

526
00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:25,080
Speaker 1: Texas UM or the coast of Texas or the coast

527
00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:28,199
Speaker 1: of coast of Mexico. And so we still continue that

528
00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:31,679
Speaker 1: work fairly actively, not as actively as it once was,

529
00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:36,399
Speaker 1: just you know, to be fair, the conversations are good. UM.

530
00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:38,840
Speaker 1: You know, we have there's an international joint venture of

531
00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:42,800
Speaker 1: the Rear Grand joint Venture works on bird related priorities

532
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:46,000
Speaker 1: in both Texas and Mexico that were very actively involved in.

533
00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:51,560
Speaker 1: UM will frequently host workshops for UM Mexican biologists to

534
00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:54,000
Speaker 1: come to to to come to Texas where we can

535
00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:58,840
Speaker 1: help share information and disseminate information UM. But you know,

536
00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:02,320
Speaker 1: regrettably thanks changed UM in Northern Mexico and that has

537
00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:05,120
Speaker 1: put a damper on, you know, some of our travel

538
00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:09,760
Speaker 1: and the ease of working across borders to UM share

539
00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:13,320
Speaker 1: resources and work collaboratively on projects and again, whether that's

540
00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:17,800
Speaker 1: UM Kim's readily seat turtles on the coast and protecting

541
00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:21,640
Speaker 1: nesting beaches or working together on you know, red headed

542
00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:24,400
Speaker 1: duck related management or big horn sheep or whatever. But

543
00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:26,400
Speaker 1: they're still for still a dialogue and that's good when

544
00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:28,600
Speaker 1: we see that things have changed, are you referring to

545
00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:31,480
Speaker 1: just like the escalation of drug related violence and it

546
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:35,440
Speaker 1: also things about things about border security really really more

547
00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:38,600
Speaker 1: the former than the ladder. Yeah, the escalation of the

548
00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:42,080
Speaker 1: of the cartels and the penetration into into northern Mexico.

549
00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:44,400
Speaker 1: You know, they're just issues associated with safety that we

550
00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:48,200
Speaker 1: have to be very very mindful of, um, because of

551
00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:51,960
Speaker 1: the areas in which, um, you know, our folks work. Um.

552
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:54,160
Speaker 1: You know. That's that's that reminds me of a point

553
00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:56,040
Speaker 1: I like to raise with people now and then, um,

554
00:29:56,600 --> 00:30:01,320
Speaker 1: where you grow up with this the idyllic cents or

555
00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:03,520
Speaker 1: not even let me put it different way, like people

556
00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:08,480
Speaker 1: imagine this sort of post apocalyptic situation where wildlife thrives,

557
00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:11,920
Speaker 1: and I always find myself pointing out the people if

558
00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:18,440
Speaker 1: you look, what like chaos does not serve wildlife? Well yeah, yeah, sure,

559
00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:23,680
Speaker 1: like stable, well functioning governments serve wildlife well bad. You know,

560
00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:25,840
Speaker 1: there's this idea that I used to remember going to

561
00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:28,560
Speaker 1: places like going to the Southern Philippines when I was younger,

562
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:31,120
Speaker 1: and I had my snoricling mask, and I was like, oh,

563
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:34,040
Speaker 1: it'll be no one's ever seen in these and you

564
00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:36,840
Speaker 1: go there and you can't find a fish. There's no

565
00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:42,200
Speaker 1: regulatory structure, no enforcement, no protection, just illegal fishing, illegal methods,

566
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:47,000
Speaker 1: using explosives, using poisons, no one to say no, that's

567
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:49,600
Speaker 1: not right, not just after you're like, yeah, it's the

568
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:53,320
Speaker 1: places that work smooth, they have very well well, And

569
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:55,520
Speaker 1: I think there's three legsure that tool, right, I mean

570
00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:58,239
Speaker 1: there's the biology shot, there's the enforcement shot, and then

571
00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:01,600
Speaker 1: there's the dedicated fun inside. And you've got to have

572
00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:04,480
Speaker 1: all three of those for those systems to function. And

573
00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:07,320
Speaker 1: so to your point, I think you're right where you've

574
00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:12,360
Speaker 1: got stable governments and you've got you know, hunters, anglers,

575
00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:15,320
Speaker 1: outdoor enthusiasts wherever you are on the consumptive or non

576
00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:19,600
Speaker 1: consumptive space, and there's dedicated funding streams to support that.

577
00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:22,400
Speaker 1: You have professional scientists, and then you have a professional

578
00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:26,480
Speaker 1: law enforcement force that's that's charged with taking care of

579
00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:29,440
Speaker 1: that and protecting it. That's where you see the fish

580
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:32,240
Speaker 1: and wildlife thrive. Your right. You know, are you familiar

581
00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:33,800
Speaker 1: We're gonna get back on tracking a minute, but are

582
00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:36,600
Speaker 1: you familiar with the How would you describe Shane Mahoney

583
00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:39,040
Speaker 1: we've ever had him on the show. You I know,

584
00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:42,840
Speaker 1: Shannon very very charismatic, very eloquent, very very passionate. But

585
00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:46,280
Speaker 1: he's like, oh, he's he's like a wildlife philosopher. Yeah, yeah,

586
00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:48,000
Speaker 1: that's and that's a great way to put a wonderful

587
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:51,320
Speaker 1: ambassador for the North American. He is a deep, deep

588
00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:56,680
Speaker 1: thinker about wildlife and the history of governments and conservation

589
00:31:56,840 --> 00:31:58,600
Speaker 1: and what war works have done. But you know, wildlife

590
00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:02,480
Speaker 1: philosopher is a is a terrific I think Moniker for

591
00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:05,120
Speaker 1: for Shane and and all the good he does all

592
00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:07,440
Speaker 1: around the world. He raised the point with me that

593
00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:09,680
Speaker 1: that kind of reflects what you're just saying where you're

594
00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:14,960
Speaker 1: talking about the system of But like like scientific management

595
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:19,520
Speaker 1: to biologists, you have a funding structure. You have private

596
00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:24,160
Speaker 1: landowners who want to see wild motivated to want to

597
00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:26,720
Speaker 1: see wildlife, fund their property and enjoy wildlife. And he's

598
00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:31,720
Speaker 1: describing all these functions that make our wildlife system work, um,

599
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:34,360
Speaker 1: and how complex it is and interwoven it is. And

600
00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:36,640
Speaker 1: he said, one of the reasons our system is resilient

601
00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:42,680
Speaker 1: is you can't cut the head off the snake. There's

602
00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:46,280
Speaker 1: not like a thing. There's not like some crystal thing

603
00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:49,480
Speaker 1: that makes it work. Many things work, and if you

604
00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:52,520
Speaker 1: if someone were to go in for whatever nefarious reason,

605
00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:55,160
Speaker 1: we're like I'm going to destroy it, it wouldn't be

606
00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:57,760
Speaker 1: clear what to do. Like we have a it's it's

607
00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:03,640
Speaker 1: a very well supported very well yeah, thankfully, thankfully, Yeah

608
00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:07,160
Speaker 1: for sure. Yeah, um, okay back contract. Now, so you

609
00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:12,719
Speaker 1: got this question answered. Check, give us, give us a breakdown. Well,

610
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:15,760
Speaker 1: the lands where you're at now lands for right now.

611
00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:21,040
Speaker 1: So you do that conservancy, that nic conservancy for the

612
00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:25,280
Speaker 1: whole damn state. Yeah, I know. It wasn't that much

613
00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:29,360
Speaker 1: of epiphany, that easier transition, to say the least. Probably

614
00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:31,920
Speaker 1: thankfully I didn't know what I didn't know. Um, And

615
00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:36,000
Speaker 1: but no, I I was happily doing my work at

616
00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:40,160
Speaker 1: the Nature Conservancy. Really enjoyed the conservation work. It felt

617
00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:42,680
Speaker 1: like it was impactful in Texas, which was really my

618
00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:45,200
Speaker 1: UM area of focus. Although you know, as I said,

619
00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:47,800
Speaker 1: I'd worked in northern Mexico for a while as well,

620
00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:50,160
Speaker 1: But you know, Texas being my home ground, that's that's

621
00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:54,400
Speaker 1: where I was interested in in in in focusing. And

622
00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:57,840
Speaker 1: and then I got recruited, Uh, kind of gauged my

623
00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:00,360
Speaker 1: interest in coming back to parks and while life in

624
00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:04,120
Speaker 1: this in this job, and um, you came back to

625
00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:07,280
Speaker 1: serve the rouler in I did. I did? Yeah, And

626
00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:10,840
Speaker 1: um and what a privilege, I mean, really, what a privilege.

627
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:13,600
Speaker 1: I Um, I care deeply about my home ground, just

628
00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:15,839
Speaker 1: as I expect most people care about theirs. And so

629
00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:18,640
Speaker 1: you know, the opportunity to work with a group of

630
00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:23,560
Speaker 1: colleagues that are so passionate about you know, place and

631
00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:27,840
Speaker 1: our natural heritage, in our in our history, UM and

632
00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:31,400
Speaker 1: our wild things and wild places. UM. I love that

633
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:35,680
Speaker 1: about this agency and so UM the people were a

634
00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:39,080
Speaker 1: huge attraction to me just because I've I've i've always

635
00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:42,680
Speaker 1: held the department in very high esteem because of the

636
00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:44,799
Speaker 1: professionals that I knew that worked for the department in

637
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:48,440
Speaker 1: different quarters UM, And so that was appealing to me.

638
00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:51,759
Speaker 1: And then just the opportunity to do things at a

639
00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:54,799
Speaker 1: little larger scale to give back, not just in the

640
00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:58,439
Speaker 1: stewardship related side, which I'm particularly passionate about, but also

641
00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:02,040
Speaker 1: the outdoor recreation side. I I really believe firmly that

642
00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:05,600
Speaker 1: if we're going to grow the next generation of conservationists,

643
00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:09,040
Speaker 1: that we've got to figure out ways to immerse them

644
00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:10,880
Speaker 1: in the outdoors. Now. It may not have been and

645
00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:13,360
Speaker 1: probably won't be the same way I was immersed in

646
00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:17,160
Speaker 1: the outdoors or either of you were, um, but wherever

647
00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:19,200
Speaker 1: they are, wherever they're at, we need to figure out

648
00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:22,320
Speaker 1: ways to introduce them and connect them. And I felt

649
00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:25,920
Speaker 1: like Parks and Wildlife understood that from a from a

650
00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:28,759
Speaker 1: state agency perspective, and if there was an opportunity to

651
00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:31,680
Speaker 1: help grow that and expand that, and that really that

652
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:34,120
Speaker 1: really appealed to me is a is a way to

653
00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:36,680
Speaker 1: give back to the state that's given me a whole lot.

654
00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:38,879
Speaker 1: You probably can't even answer this. Do people come along

655
00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:44,280
Speaker 1: and never vet you as an interior secretary as Oh gosh,

656
00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:49,640
Speaker 1: their their their bar is much higher uh than next.

657
00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:52,080
Speaker 1: I feel that's your next place. Oh you know, I

658
00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:54,960
Speaker 1: love Texas and you have to dynamite me out of here.

659
00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:57,279
Speaker 1: I think it's or shoot me out of here, which

660
00:35:57,320 --> 00:35:59,120
Speaker 1: others probably a line of folks want to do. That

661
00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:06,760
Speaker 1: give me an overview on um just like the scale

662
00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:11,200
Speaker 1: of Texas Parts and Wildlife Department. Well, so you know,

663
00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:13,120
Speaker 1: we cover the whole state, you know, two hundred and

664
00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:16,960
Speaker 1: fifty four counties, hundred and fifty million acres or so

665
00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:21,399
Speaker 1: a terrestrial wildlife habitat um Our boundaries go out nine

666
00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:25,200
Speaker 1: nautical miles into the Gulf of Mexico, two hundred thousand

667
00:36:25,239 --> 00:36:29,200
Speaker 1: miles of rivers and creeks and streams, you know roughly,

668
00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:32,279
Speaker 1: you know, with our Mandering shoreline a little over four

669
00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:36,120
Speaker 1: thousand miles of that. So it is, it is big,

670
00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:38,120
Speaker 1: and it is vast. You know, you draw a straight line,

671
00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:40,160
Speaker 1: I think it's three hundred and sixty seven miles. You

672
00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:43,440
Speaker 1: do all the you know, bays and estuaries and so forth,

673
00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:46,440
Speaker 1: and it's it's scaled up considerably along the along the coast.

674
00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:50,040
Speaker 1: It is an interesting statistic about Prince of Wales Island

675
00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:53,200
Speaker 1: and the Island of Hawaii, Prince Will's Island. It's half

676
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:59,320
Speaker 1: size or a third size, best twice the coastline. Yeah, yeah,

677
00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:04,000
Speaker 1: exactly the same phenomena. But you know, the scale is

678
00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:08,120
Speaker 1: is fascinating. You know, ten or eleven different ecoregions, um,

679
00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:11,000
Speaker 1: you know, from the deserts to the coast, to the subtropics,

680
00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:14,279
Speaker 1: down into the Rio Grand Valley, the southern terminus of

681
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:17,600
Speaker 1: the High Plains, the southern terminus of the Rocky Mountains,

682
00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:20,840
Speaker 1: you know, the Edwards Plateau, and the central part of

683
00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:23,120
Speaker 1: the state. A place at E. O. Wilson of all people,

684
00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:27,240
Speaker 1: called the twenty six bow diversity hotspot in all the world,

685
00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:30,960
Speaker 1: just because of the proliferation of interesting fish and wildlife

686
00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:34,440
Speaker 1: organisms and plants that that reside there. The Big Thicket,

687
00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:37,200
Speaker 1: which is you know, more like the south over in

688
00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:40,480
Speaker 1: the eastern part of our state. And so it is big,

689
00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:44,760
Speaker 1: and it is diverse. Is an artifact of the size,

690
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:47,120
Speaker 1: you know, kind of the accident of geography thing. It's

691
00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:50,719
Speaker 1: situated a pretty interesting part of the globe all and

692
00:37:50,719 --> 00:37:52,680
Speaker 1: you've got stuff that from a passing glance you can

693
00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:55,319
Speaker 1: think it was tropical jungle. Yeah, and then you have

694
00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:57,480
Speaker 1: it's amazing cause you go up and you have the

695
00:37:58,080 --> 00:38:02,759
Speaker 1: like short grass prairie right off at Texas Panhandle, right

696
00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:06,040
Speaker 1: because guys would guys would talk about traveling for days

697
00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:08,759
Speaker 1: without seeing a tree. Yeah, and did and it looks

698
00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:12,440
Speaker 1: like the Great Plains. Yeah, absolutely got those rolling, undulating hills.

699
00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:14,840
Speaker 1: You know, maybe you'd hit a little bottom with some

700
00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:18,359
Speaker 1: cotton woods and a spring fed creek and and and

701
00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:21,480
Speaker 1: you know, a lot gamier than people realize. But yeah,

702
00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:23,359
Speaker 1: there are parts of the Panhandle that you know, I'd

703
00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:25,879
Speaker 1: pluck us all down in and you'd say, sure, I'm

704
00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:29,320
Speaker 1: I'm here in Kansas, I'm in Nebraska. But you're in

705
00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:33,680
Speaker 1: the Texas painting or conversely, parts of far West Texas

706
00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:36,000
Speaker 1: where you get up in some of the mountains um

707
00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:38,680
Speaker 1: and you get some ponderosa pine and aspen, and you know,

708
00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:40,520
Speaker 1: I think you're in New Mexico or Colorado and So

709
00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:42,680
Speaker 1: that's that's fun to be able to work in the

710
00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:46,319
Speaker 1: state that has that level of diversity of kind of

711
00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:48,680
Speaker 1: plant and animal communities and to play a role in

712
00:38:48,719 --> 00:38:51,160
Speaker 1: helping to manage them and conserve them. What's you guys

713
00:38:51,239 --> 00:38:54,120
Speaker 1: best guests on how many deer? Say? You know? And

714
00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:56,520
Speaker 1: our best guess is a is A is a good

715
00:38:56,520 --> 00:38:58,000
Speaker 1: way to put it. But you know, maybe in the

716
00:38:58,040 --> 00:38:59,960
Speaker 1: five million range. I'm gonna look at what I told

717
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:03,480
Speaker 1: here about twenty eight million people. Yeah, so you know,

718
00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:05,480
Speaker 1: we grow by about a thousand Texans a day, so

719
00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:09,120
Speaker 1: as you can imagine, seriously, seriously, Yeah, yeah, it's impressive.

720
00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:12,920
Speaker 1: Our our growth rate has just been um, pretty high

721
00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:17,200
Speaker 1: and pretty because roughly, yeah, what's driving it? Yeah, it's

722
00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:20,520
Speaker 1: the economy. Yeah, the economy. Um. I mean people come

723
00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:25,280
Speaker 1: here for business quality, quality, alive. Um. You know, eighty

724
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:28,960
Speaker 1: six percent of us live in nine major metropolitan areas,

725
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:32,120
Speaker 1: so you know, Texas spite of all that vast rural

726
00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:35,160
Speaker 1: nature nature um empty in the middle, empty in the middle,

727
00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:39,720
Speaker 1: um um or populous in the middle and in empty

728
00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:45,239
Speaker 1: on the on the fench. Yeah. Yeah, so five million,

729
00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:47,120
Speaker 1: roughly five million deer. If I be a deer, if

730
00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:52,800
Speaker 1: I've made white tails. Someone then came and said to you, um,

731
00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:54,680
Speaker 1: like they wanted to make a bet with you, a

732
00:39:54,680 --> 00:39:57,200
Speaker 1: bout how right the number was? Yeah? Like how how

733
00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:02,319
Speaker 1: how possibly wrong could a number like that be? Well,

734
00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:04,680
Speaker 1: and you guys sit around trying to like, because five

735
00:40:04,719 --> 00:40:08,360
Speaker 1: million sounds like a pretty convenient round number. Yeah, and

736
00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:10,800
Speaker 1: I and you know take that again? Is it from

737
00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:15,160
Speaker 1: looking at densities and then multiplying. Yeah, So our our

738
00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:19,279
Speaker 1: our biologists are actively involved, you know, with survey of

739
00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:23,400
Speaker 1: all kinds of animals um year round, you know, depending

740
00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:25,520
Speaker 1: on what the species is. You know, certainly why tell

741
00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:29,920
Speaker 1: deer surveyed very very extensively, not only by biologists with

742
00:40:30,080 --> 00:40:33,359
Speaker 1: this department, but by private landowners and others. But five

743
00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:37,680
Speaker 1: million is an estimate, and so that's a rounding number

744
00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:42,799
Speaker 1: from me um and so is that accurate within plus

745
00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:46,439
Speaker 1: or minus ten properly? We got a lot of deer

746
00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:50,399
Speaker 1: um and in many cases too many deer. And so

747
00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:52,880
Speaker 1: you know the issue is not so much how do

748
00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:56,040
Speaker 1: we bring back deer in our state. We've already done

749
00:40:56,480 --> 00:41:00,840
Speaker 1: that very very successfully. The challenges is how do we

750
00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:03,319
Speaker 1: get hunters to shoot enough dear? How do we get

751
00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:07,319
Speaker 1: landowners to accept allowing hunters to shoot enough dear without

752
00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:10,120
Speaker 1: being concerned that you know, they've shot all my dear.

753
00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:12,360
Speaker 1: You know, really interesting because a friend of mine this,

754
00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:14,960
Speaker 1: I don't want to say who said this because because

755
00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:19,920
Speaker 1: it sounds cynical, but he was this is not you talking,

756
00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:21,880
Speaker 1: it's me talking, but a friend. And I was, like,

757
00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:24,239
Speaker 1: he says, I'm always baffled. I hear someone say white

758
00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:30,600
Speaker 1: tail conservation, white tail conservation is shooting white tails. Well,

759
00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:33,239
Speaker 1: but to be fair, you know they're parts of the

760
00:41:33,280 --> 00:41:35,480
Speaker 1: South and parts of the country and where white tail

761
00:41:35,560 --> 00:41:40,280
Speaker 1: numbers have declined. Uh, and so you know why that's happening. Um,

762
00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:43,920
Speaker 1: you know, probably myriad reasons. In Texas, that's not the case.

763
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:46,799
Speaker 1: So when you say too many, too many by what

764
00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:49,760
Speaker 1: measure like too many according to who? Yeah, too many

765
00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:53,960
Speaker 1: according to what the habitat can reasonably sustain. So it's

766
00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:57,239
Speaker 1: not egg it's not car insurers. No, it's you know,

767
00:41:57,400 --> 00:42:01,360
Speaker 1: I mean, we hear from you know, some farmers in

768
00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:05,799
Speaker 1: certain locales about about deer densities being too high and

769
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:10,640
Speaker 1: concern about crop depardation. That's really a very very small

770
00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:14,359
Speaker 1: part of what we deal with. Um. Occasionally we'll hear

771
00:42:15,080 --> 00:42:19,920
Speaker 1: uh from an insurer about you know, dear vehicle accidents.

772
00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:22,759
Speaker 1: But that's really an anomaly that that does happen. Oh, sure,

773
00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:25,600
Speaker 1: I mean occasionally, but it's you know, it's it's really

774
00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:30,680
Speaker 1: more the poor motorists to you know, hit a deer

775
00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:33,440
Speaker 1: and then well that's the state's deer, and so the

776
00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:36,239
Speaker 1: state needs to pay me for the damage to my

777
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:41,239
Speaker 1: car and my lost trip and this and that there.

778
00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:45,919
Speaker 1: Everybody's dear. Uh it's so uh yeah, No, we don't

779
00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:48,160
Speaker 1: have any liability associated with that, I mean always, so

780
00:42:48,280 --> 00:42:52,240
Speaker 1: that's something people test. Oh, it's occasionally, you know, it's uh,

781
00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:54,560
Speaker 1: It's probably been a couple of years since since I've

782
00:42:54,560 --> 00:42:58,280
Speaker 1: heard somebody make a vigorous case in that in that regard.

783
00:42:58,480 --> 00:43:01,160
Speaker 1: But um, but you know, we do have a lot

784
00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:03,800
Speaker 1: of dear vehicle accidents. It's something you can have a

785
00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:06,360
Speaker 1: lot of dear Ferrell Hawk accidents. Um, you know, you

786
00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:10,319
Speaker 1: gotta be mindful driving in rural areas. It is hitting

787
00:43:10,680 --> 00:43:13,040
Speaker 1: your car, yes, yeah, and that'll call serious damage. I

788
00:43:13,080 --> 00:43:16,280
Speaker 1: mean you look like hitting a bear. Um. In fact,

789
00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:20,400
Speaker 1: there's right around Austin there's a a um a loop

790
00:43:20,520 --> 00:43:23,799
Speaker 1: that was that was built a new tollway and when

791
00:43:23,840 --> 00:43:26,000
Speaker 1: it put in, It was put in. It seemed like

792
00:43:26,239 --> 00:43:32,840
Speaker 1: there was a vehicle Ferrell hag collision every single day. Um,

793
00:43:32,880 --> 00:43:35,040
Speaker 1: you know, And this just happened for a year or two,

794
00:43:35,120 --> 00:43:37,480
Speaker 1: and finally a couple of the counties got together and said,

795
00:43:37,600 --> 00:43:39,480
Speaker 1: you know, we've got to start working on some Ferrell

796
00:43:39,520 --> 00:43:42,400
Speaker 1: hawks lost. That's a public safety problem. Um. You know,

797
00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:46,120
Speaker 1: there's all these other myriad problems associated with Ferrell hawks,

798
00:43:46,239 --> 00:43:50,400
Speaker 1: but um, you know, a a a loop around Austin

799
00:43:50,440 --> 00:43:53,720
Speaker 1: and San Antonio with a eighty five mile hour speed

800
00:43:53,760 --> 00:43:56,000
Speaker 1: limit and somebody hitting a Ferrell hag, that's a recipe

801
00:43:56,040 --> 00:44:00,440
Speaker 1: for real problems. Um so um so, yeah, deer hall

802
00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:02,640
Speaker 1: collisions are up? Are are are? Is it? One of

803
00:44:02,640 --> 00:44:05,880
Speaker 1: the things that keep us laying awake at night about

804
00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:09,400
Speaker 1: the things that let's talk about hogs because I had

805
00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:13,720
Speaker 1: a bunch of hard questions. Let's just do them now. Um,

806
00:44:14,360 --> 00:44:16,720
Speaker 1: what's the ballpark on hawgs? Can you even venture to guess?

807
00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:19,879
Speaker 1: Do you have more hogs and deer? I don't think so.

808
00:44:20,040 --> 00:44:23,040
Speaker 1: You know the numbers that that that I hear consistently,

809
00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:25,200
Speaker 1: and you know, you listen to the margin of ara

810
00:44:25,280 --> 00:44:27,640
Speaker 1: this or somewhere between two to four million hawks. So

811
00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:31,600
Speaker 1: how accurate is that? Nobody knows we were They're hard

812
00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:35,279
Speaker 1: to count, you know, because they're largely nocturnal UM, and

813
00:44:35,440 --> 00:44:39,640
Speaker 1: they're not really good methodologies UM that are established and

814
00:44:39,880 --> 00:44:42,360
Speaker 1: that are being practiced on a regular enough basis to

815
00:44:43,040 --> 00:44:45,880
Speaker 1: estimate numbers. And again remember with you know species, I

816
00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:48,479
Speaker 1: there a lot of arrested as trends over time, right,

817
00:44:48,520 --> 00:44:51,200
Speaker 1: the exact numbers are less important than the trends and

818
00:44:51,640 --> 00:44:56,560
Speaker 1: in other specific um um into season in in metrics.

819
00:44:56,719 --> 00:44:59,120
Speaker 1: But lots of hogs every we have we have farall

820
00:44:59,160 --> 00:45:02,799
Speaker 1: hawks and every one our counties now um so counties,

821
00:45:02,800 --> 00:45:05,399
Speaker 1: you guys got two hundred and fifty four and that's

822
00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:08,279
Speaker 1: not so your hog distribution map is the state. It

823
00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:10,719
Speaker 1: is the state. It is the state. And I even

824
00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:13,280
Speaker 1: on that like crazy West Texas, Yeah, where you couldn't

825
00:45:13,280 --> 00:45:17,320
Speaker 1: think there's there's a country there, avelena country, very little

826
00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:21,000
Speaker 1: surface water, UM, not a lot of top soil. It

827
00:45:21,120 --> 00:45:26,359
Speaker 1: is astounding how adaptable and resilient those feral hogs are.

828
00:45:26,560 --> 00:45:30,360
Speaker 1: Well they displace have alena. Yeah. I think that when

829
00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:33,439
Speaker 1: when hogs will come into an area and really take

830
00:45:33,520 --> 00:45:37,320
Speaker 1: over UM, oftentimes that will disrupt UM. You know, those

831
00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:42,080
Speaker 1: those very strict social structures that um that UH have

832
00:45:42,200 --> 00:45:44,719
Speaker 1: alna live in and will displace them from from a

833
00:45:44,840 --> 00:45:47,719
Speaker 1: from a habitat utilization perspective. So we certainly see that.

834
00:45:48,280 --> 00:45:52,080
Speaker 1: Let me ask you if you could um wave a

835
00:45:52,120 --> 00:45:54,120
Speaker 1: magic one. This is our favorite question when it comes

836
00:45:54,120 --> 00:45:55,680
Speaker 1: to pigs, because a lot of times we have people

837
00:45:55,719 --> 00:46:00,080
Speaker 1: who even work in the hog or adication industry and

838
00:46:00,120 --> 00:46:01,640
Speaker 1: we're asking if you can wave a magic wine and

839
00:46:01,680 --> 00:46:05,080
Speaker 1: have pigs go away. They'll say no, I wouldn't waive it.

840
00:46:05,160 --> 00:46:07,319
Speaker 1: And not only and not just because I do this

841
00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:10,080
Speaker 1: for a living, but they just come to appreciate them

842
00:46:10,080 --> 00:46:12,400
Speaker 1: all the time. They're a fashioning animal archtype. Yeah, so

843
00:46:12,440 --> 00:46:15,600
Speaker 1: let's say, here you are, I present you with this wine.

844
00:46:16,560 --> 00:46:20,400
Speaker 1: As much as there's an industry in your state, it

845
00:46:20,719 --> 00:46:24,480
Speaker 1: people come here. I got friends that come from Montana

846
00:46:24,520 --> 00:46:28,560
Speaker 1: to Texas. Yeah, it would you would you waive the

847
00:46:28,600 --> 00:46:32,000
Speaker 1: one and it would be absolutely gone from the state.

848
00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:34,439
Speaker 1: You know, that's a that's a great question. You could

849
00:46:34,440 --> 00:46:36,880
Speaker 1: have to put me in that camp that's decidedly mixed

850
00:46:37,040 --> 00:46:39,920
Speaker 1: professionally and personally. You know, professionally be the right thing

851
00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:42,239
Speaker 1: because you've probably been hunting your whole life my whole life.

852
00:46:42,280 --> 00:46:43,520
Speaker 1: I grew up with him and I do have a

853
00:46:43,560 --> 00:46:46,520
Speaker 1: deep appreciation for him and they are fun to chase,

854
00:46:46,719 --> 00:46:49,360
Speaker 1: and we've got a lot of landowners that enjoy that.

855
00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:52,480
Speaker 1: But we certainly have an equal matter more that um

856
00:46:52,920 --> 00:46:56,520
Speaker 1: are just run over with hogs, huge problems. So how

857
00:46:56,520 --> 00:46:59,000
Speaker 1: do you how do you like? There's no such thing

858
00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:01,279
Speaker 1: as a balance between these two things. No, and there's

859
00:47:01,400 --> 00:47:05,600
Speaker 1: it's a it's an interesting push pull. But you know, professionally, UH,

860
00:47:05,680 --> 00:47:08,399
Speaker 1: we are pushing hard to to do everything we can

861
00:47:08,520 --> 00:47:12,719
Speaker 1: to UM encourage landowners and hunters and others to UM

862
00:47:12,760 --> 00:47:15,360
Speaker 1: trap as many hogs, shoot as many hogs. You know,

863
00:47:15,400 --> 00:47:20,080
Speaker 1: we're working on a fascinating uh natural toxicon that is

864
00:47:20,080 --> 00:47:23,120
Speaker 1: derived from sodium nitrite, you know, food preservative, and our

865
00:47:23,640 --> 00:47:27,640
Speaker 1: biologists have been working in concert with scientists from UM

866
00:47:27,719 --> 00:47:30,640
Speaker 1: Australia and New Zealand and here in Texas in U.

867
00:47:30,719 --> 00:47:34,840
Speaker 1: S d A to test that toxicon. It's a toxic

868
00:47:34,880 --> 00:47:37,600
Speaker 1: and it's a it's a bait. It's a pellet um

869
00:47:37,760 --> 00:47:41,879
Speaker 1: that's got a very specific delivery mechanism to preclude other

870
00:47:41,960 --> 00:47:46,640
Speaker 1: non target spec not lethal to deer, not lethal to birds,

871
00:47:46,719 --> 00:47:50,680
Speaker 1: not lethal to cattle, and so we're still in the

872
00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:55,040
Speaker 1: testing phase. Yeah, I got to Yeah, I mean I

873
00:47:55,239 --> 00:47:58,640
Speaker 1: clearly we UM. I don't want to have some unintended

874
00:47:58,680 --> 00:48:01,879
Speaker 1: impact on all the other species of wildlife and things

875
00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:03,160
Speaker 1: that we that we care about. But it's been a

876
00:48:03,200 --> 00:48:06,120
Speaker 1: fascinating study by our biologists at one of our wildlife

877
00:48:06,160 --> 00:48:09,360
Speaker 1: management area and so they've gone back to the drawing

878
00:48:09,400 --> 00:48:14,279
Speaker 1: board with UM. The size of the pellet, UM, the

879
00:48:14,320 --> 00:48:16,560
Speaker 1: amount of the toxicon and the pellet. And what's interesting

880
00:48:16,560 --> 00:48:20,000
Speaker 1: about this is sodium nitride hogs that eat it in

881
00:48:20,040 --> 00:48:24,600
Speaker 1: a certain quantity, it stops the oxygen flow to the brain.

882
00:48:24,880 --> 00:48:27,160
Speaker 1: So they'll eat it and then they'll go off and

883
00:48:27,239 --> 00:48:29,680
Speaker 1: kind of go to sleep. So you know, it's not

884
00:48:29,800 --> 00:48:33,480
Speaker 1: like other kinds of pesticides that you hear about that

885
00:48:33,880 --> 00:48:37,520
Speaker 1: you know, have some pretty dramatic effects and UM and

886
00:48:37,680 --> 00:48:40,240
Speaker 1: so we're you know, advert into those kind of concerns,

887
00:48:40,239 --> 00:48:42,719
Speaker 1: but we're particularly concerned about I want to make sure

888
00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:48,520
Speaker 1: we've done everything to attenuate impacts on non target species, right,

889
00:48:48,560 --> 00:48:50,560
Speaker 1: we want to focus on hogs. So we're not ready

890
00:48:50,560 --> 00:48:55,560
Speaker 1: for UM to have EPA approval yet and have that

891
00:48:55,560 --> 00:48:58,160
Speaker 1: that would require that would require ep approval Yeah. Yeah,

892
00:48:58,160 --> 00:49:00,000
Speaker 1: So we're rigorous testing and we've been working on the

893
00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:05,920
Speaker 1: is for eight years or now, um testing different pellet formulations,

894
00:49:06,680 --> 00:49:09,840
Speaker 1: a lot of cooperation from other entities, right, there's been

895
00:49:09,840 --> 00:49:11,560
Speaker 1: a lot of interest in that, a lot of interests.

896
00:49:11,560 --> 00:49:14,439
Speaker 1: You know. Similarly, though you know your point earlier, we've

897
00:49:14,480 --> 00:49:16,840
Speaker 1: got you know, landowners in part of the state that

898
00:49:16,960 --> 00:49:19,919
Speaker 1: have operations that you know, hunters come in from from

899
00:49:20,000 --> 00:49:22,760
Speaker 1: from out of state in state to hunt Farrell hawks,

900
00:49:22,760 --> 00:49:26,600
Speaker 1: and so you know, they'd be real concerned about controlled

901
00:49:27,080 --> 00:49:30,080
Speaker 1: and and a landowner's choice. And really, at the end

902
00:49:30,080 --> 00:49:31,960
Speaker 1: of the day, people have to get comfortable with the

903
00:49:32,000 --> 00:49:34,840
Speaker 1: fact that you're not gonna you're not gonna radicate Farrell hawks.

904
00:49:34,920 --> 00:49:37,040
Speaker 1: You can manage them, you can try to control them,

905
00:49:37,160 --> 00:49:41,040
Speaker 1: but you're probably not gonna radicate magic one scenario you

906
00:49:41,040 --> 00:49:44,239
Speaker 1: don't not realistic. Yeah, how far out might be? I mean,

907
00:49:44,480 --> 00:49:48,000
Speaker 1: let's say you got there, you know, let's say toy

908
00:49:48,000 --> 00:49:49,840
Speaker 1: and I tried. Yeah, let's say you got there. Like,

909
00:49:49,880 --> 00:49:51,680
Speaker 1: how far out might something like that be? If you know,

910
00:49:51,760 --> 00:49:53,880
Speaker 1: I think runs a normal course in the process, I

911
00:49:53,880 --> 00:49:56,239
Speaker 1: think we'd still be several years away. And by that,

912
00:49:56,360 --> 00:49:59,080
Speaker 1: you know, say a minimum of three there's more field

913
00:49:59,120 --> 00:50:01,040
Speaker 1: testing that would have to be done. You know, we've

914
00:50:01,040 --> 00:50:03,440
Speaker 1: been doing this in a in a in a setting

915
00:50:03,480 --> 00:50:06,520
Speaker 1: on a Wildlife Management UM area in which we've been

916
00:50:06,560 --> 00:50:10,200
Speaker 1: able to test it in pretty controlled environments. We've gone

917
00:50:10,239 --> 00:50:14,760
Speaker 1: out with UM Wildlife Services and done some preliminary field

918
00:50:14,760 --> 00:50:16,960
Speaker 1: tests and that's caused just to kind of go back

919
00:50:17,000 --> 00:50:22,359
Speaker 1: and again look at that baked formulation, the palatability, look

920
00:50:22,400 --> 00:50:25,160
Speaker 1: at the level of the toxicut um in there, and

921
00:50:25,200 --> 00:50:27,640
Speaker 1: so probably we'll go back out in the field sometime

922
00:50:27,680 --> 00:50:29,640
Speaker 1: in the next year to test that again, but we're

923
00:50:29,680 --> 00:50:35,840
Speaker 1: several years away from that. You say, sodium night not tried. Yeah,

924
00:50:35,960 --> 00:50:39,400
Speaker 1: My question is does that start kind of the brining process,

925
00:50:39,600 --> 00:50:42,440
Speaker 1: so that is it safe for human consumption afterwards? Like

926
00:50:42,440 --> 00:50:47,800
Speaker 1: you can right to the smoker. Yeah, there's yeah, just

927
00:50:48,000 --> 00:50:52,719
Speaker 1: right there, Yeah, exactly. Yeah, No, I don't think it

928
00:50:52,760 --> 00:50:55,560
Speaker 1: does that that for you. But but obviously we are

929
00:50:55,600 --> 00:50:59,719
Speaker 1: concerned about you know, somebody shoots a feral hall that

930
00:51:00,120 --> 00:51:02,680
Speaker 1: uh ended up eating some of that, babe, other animals

931
00:51:02,719 --> 00:51:08,080
Speaker 1: eating that. Yeah, you bet, you bet so. I we're

932
00:51:08,120 --> 00:51:10,560
Speaker 1: making sure that we're we're looking at every facet of

933
00:51:10,600 --> 00:51:14,640
Speaker 1: this both from a non target perspective, but also the

934
00:51:14,719 --> 00:51:16,239
Speaker 1: human health and say it would be it would be

935
00:51:16,239 --> 00:51:19,759
Speaker 1: wildly irresponsible not to right. So, um, you know, it's

936
00:51:19,800 --> 00:51:22,000
Speaker 1: a state Fish and Wildlife agency. We have to we

937
00:51:22,040 --> 00:51:24,560
Speaker 1: have to do that. And this is a pretty unique

938
00:51:24,600 --> 00:51:28,279
Speaker 1: area of research for us UM. And so we've got

939
00:51:28,280 --> 00:51:32,160
Speaker 1: a real dedicated team of biologists and scientists again working

940
00:51:32,160 --> 00:51:35,759
Speaker 1: in active partnership with U s d A and other

941
00:51:35,800 --> 00:51:40,160
Speaker 1: research institutions on this. But there's a real hunger out

942
00:51:40,200 --> 00:51:42,600
Speaker 1: there for some kind of a solution to the feral

943
00:51:42,640 --> 00:51:46,000
Speaker 1: hog problem. Um. You can't shoot your way out of it.

944
00:51:46,080 --> 00:51:48,920
Speaker 1: You can't trap your way out of it. That's interesting.

945
00:51:48,920 --> 00:51:51,800
Speaker 1: So you would say within Texas, like more than fifty

946
00:51:52,400 --> 00:51:58,080
Speaker 1: of your constituents would say, let's try to make less hogs. Yes, yes,

947
00:51:58,280 --> 00:52:01,480
Speaker 1: what are the main what are the mean wise? Like,

948
00:52:01,520 --> 00:52:05,640
Speaker 1: what are what are the main arguments against hogs? Yeah? Destructive,

949
00:52:06,560 --> 00:52:09,919
Speaker 1: you know, a lack of real kind of meaningful predators

950
00:52:09,920 --> 00:52:13,120
Speaker 1: on them. Their populations just go up and up. You know,

951
00:52:13,160 --> 00:52:17,719
Speaker 1: they're tearing up fields, tearing up roads, tearing up tank damns,

952
00:52:18,200 --> 00:52:23,799
Speaker 1: you know, displacing native species. Um, I'd say those are

953
00:52:23,840 --> 00:52:28,239
Speaker 1: the principal ones. It's just kind of their their destructive

954
00:52:28,280 --> 00:52:31,759
Speaker 1: and unchecked nature in terms of how they grow, you know,

955
00:52:31,840 --> 00:52:34,200
Speaker 1: with their gestation period is what three months, three weeks

956
00:52:34,200 --> 00:52:37,600
Speaker 1: and three days, so they're having litters all the time,

957
00:52:37,920 --> 00:52:42,000
Speaker 1: and their litters you know maybe you know, ten, twelve,

958
00:52:42,080 --> 00:52:46,200
Speaker 1: fifteen piglets, and so it's just hard to get the

959
00:52:46,239 --> 00:52:49,319
Speaker 1: brakes on them. And a deer, a deer is gonna

960
00:52:49,400 --> 00:52:51,839
Speaker 1: kick off, yeah, but she was gonna kick off one

961
00:52:51,880 --> 00:52:54,280
Speaker 1: or two funds a year, that's right, That's right, And

962
00:52:54,320 --> 00:52:58,000
Speaker 1: she's gonna kick off what Yeah, And so they're gonna

963
00:52:58,120 --> 00:53:03,279
Speaker 1: they're probably gonna have you know, two groups of hogs

964
00:53:03,320 --> 00:53:06,360
Speaker 1: every year, sometimes three, um, And they reach sexual maturity

965
00:53:06,440 --> 00:53:09,040
Speaker 1: at a very young age. And you know it in

966
00:53:09,160 --> 00:53:12,319
Speaker 1: coots will kill hogs and mountlines will kill hogs, but

967
00:53:12,320 --> 00:53:14,839
Speaker 1: but not in a way that's keeping those numbers in check.

968
00:53:14,880 --> 00:53:19,640
Speaker 1: And certainly hunters aren't doing that either. Explain what exactly

969
00:53:21,000 --> 00:53:26,440
Speaker 1: what is the regulatory structure around shooting hogs from helicopters?

970
00:53:26,719 --> 00:53:28,960
Speaker 1: How does this work? How does that work? So UM's

971
00:53:29,000 --> 00:53:31,799
Speaker 1: a lot of confusion about that. Sure. So first off,

972
00:53:32,120 --> 00:53:36,200
Speaker 1: the pilot has to have an aerial wildlife management apartment,

973
00:53:36,280 --> 00:53:40,279
Speaker 1: and remember everything the overarching governance for that is the

974
00:53:40,320 --> 00:53:44,440
Speaker 1: Federal Airborne Hunting Acts. So there's a there's a federal

975
00:53:44,480 --> 00:53:48,480
Speaker 1: regulation which governs what states can do. Now, states can

976
00:53:48,680 --> 00:53:52,239
Speaker 1: work within the parameters of that federal act, but there's

977
00:53:52,280 --> 00:53:56,160
Speaker 1: an overarching federal Airborne Hunting Act that basically says you

978
00:53:56,239 --> 00:54:01,840
Speaker 1: can't hunt from a helicopter or a next wing aircraft. Now,

979
00:54:02,280 --> 00:54:05,239
Speaker 1: so how does that translate into people shooting hogs out

980
00:54:05,239 --> 00:54:09,960
Speaker 1: of a helicopter in Texas which aerial and then our

981
00:54:10,040 --> 00:54:15,439
Speaker 1: coyotes here and yeah, right, so UM in Texas UM,

982
00:54:15,520 --> 00:54:18,480
Speaker 1: the Texas Parts and Wildlife Department, we essentially serve as

983
00:54:18,600 --> 00:54:24,000
Speaker 1: the agent for helping to permit activities under that Airborne

984
00:54:24,040 --> 00:54:27,680
Speaker 1: Hunting Act. And so we'll issue an aerial management permit

985
00:54:27,880 --> 00:54:32,840
Speaker 1: to a helicopter operator and so that's an annual permit,

986
00:54:32,960 --> 00:54:37,000
Speaker 1: has to be renewed. There's certain reporting related requirements and

987
00:54:37,200 --> 00:54:40,839
Speaker 1: that's required if you're gonna you know, count wildlife from

988
00:54:40,840 --> 00:54:43,520
Speaker 1: the air, if you're going to talk photograph wildlife from there,

989
00:54:43,520 --> 00:54:45,440
Speaker 1: if you're gonna trap wildlife from the air, if you're

990
00:54:45,440 --> 00:54:48,080
Speaker 1: gonna shoot hogs or coats from there, you've got to

991
00:54:48,160 --> 00:54:51,239
Speaker 1: have that aerial Wildlife management permit. You also have to

992
00:54:51,280 --> 00:54:55,080
Speaker 1: have what's called a landowner authorization agreement or what we

993
00:54:55,200 --> 00:54:58,560
Speaker 1: call the acronym and l o A landowner authorization Agreement

994
00:54:58,680 --> 00:55:03,160
Speaker 1: LAY and l o A is approved by the landowner

995
00:55:03,280 --> 00:55:06,960
Speaker 1: on whose property you're flying over and say shooting hogs

996
00:55:06,800 --> 00:55:09,839
Speaker 1: or codes out of the helicopter. So the landowner has

997
00:55:09,880 --> 00:55:12,640
Speaker 1: to approve it has to approve the activity. So whether

998
00:55:12,680 --> 00:55:16,000
Speaker 1: that's a wildlife census or maybe it's a trapping of

999
00:55:16,040 --> 00:55:21,319
Speaker 1: exotics um um or shooting codes or hogs out of

1000
00:55:21,320 --> 00:55:25,560
Speaker 1: a helicopter. And then there are agents and sub agents

1001
00:55:25,640 --> 00:55:30,280
Speaker 1: of the landowner that are approved on that landowner authorization agreement,

1002
00:55:30,600 --> 00:55:33,319
Speaker 1: and so those can be observers and they can be

1003
00:55:33,400 --> 00:55:37,759
Speaker 1: shooters on the helicopter, but it's a it's jail referenced.

1004
00:55:37,840 --> 00:55:41,319
Speaker 1: The landowner has says, you know, within these boundaries, I've

1005
00:55:41,360 --> 00:55:45,799
Speaker 1: approved this map. You have this letter authorization agreement to

1006
00:55:45,920 --> 00:55:49,680
Speaker 1: conduct those aerial management activities, whatever they are. So that's

1007
00:55:49,760 --> 00:55:53,040
Speaker 1: kind of the regulatory permitting structure, um that we have

1008
00:55:53,120 --> 00:55:59,120
Speaker 1: put in place here. Um, there's been a real uh boom,

1009
00:55:59,280 --> 00:56:03,600
Speaker 1: i'd say, in the last um three to five years

1010
00:56:03,640 --> 00:56:08,480
Speaker 1: of helicopter companies marketing to people to you know, come

1011
00:56:08,560 --> 00:56:13,120
Speaker 1: be designated agents and and and shoot um out of

1012
00:56:13,120 --> 00:56:16,400
Speaker 1: their helicopter to shoot hogs out of a helicopter. But

1013
00:56:16,600 --> 00:56:20,520
Speaker 1: it's critically important that um, that that you've got that

1014
00:56:20,600 --> 00:56:25,359
Speaker 1: landowner authorization agreement and you're identified again as as a

1015
00:56:25,360 --> 00:56:27,839
Speaker 1: as an agent or a sub agent, and that you're

1016
00:56:27,880 --> 00:56:30,880
Speaker 1: only flying and shooting over property which you have permission,

1017
00:56:31,160 --> 00:56:33,680
Speaker 1: and that your pilot is properly and that you're and

1018
00:56:33,719 --> 00:56:36,400
Speaker 1: that your pilot is properly licensed. And again there's reporting

1019
00:56:36,400 --> 00:56:39,319
Speaker 1: requirements and other compliance things that they have to they

1020
00:56:39,320 --> 00:56:45,239
Speaker 1: have to meet. We've um, UM. It's been an important

1021
00:56:45,280 --> 00:56:49,080
Speaker 1: tool for landowners. Yeah, yeah, landowners will use that and

1022
00:56:49,120 --> 00:56:53,719
Speaker 1: particularly um like a guy can realize a guy can

1023
00:56:53,760 --> 00:56:57,160
Speaker 1: realize real movement of a problem. It can. But but

1024
00:56:57,239 --> 00:57:00,160
Speaker 1: I think you look at it seasonally and temporally know

1025
00:57:00,280 --> 00:57:03,759
Speaker 1: and so so let's say, um, you know, you want

1026
00:57:03,760 --> 00:57:06,279
Speaker 1: to target hogs, and you you go up in the

1027
00:57:06,280 --> 00:57:09,120
Speaker 1: air and you've got some shooters, You've got a good pilot,

1028
00:57:10,120 --> 00:57:14,600
Speaker 1: and you find number of sounders and you hammer those hogs. Um,

1029
00:57:14,680 --> 00:57:16,640
Speaker 1: you're gonna knock them back for a while. You may

1030
00:57:16,720 --> 00:57:19,800
Speaker 1: chase him on to somebody else's property, but you're gonna

1031
00:57:19,840 --> 00:57:24,880
Speaker 1: realize some relief. Now that's not permanent relief because they're

1032
00:57:24,880 --> 00:57:27,240
Speaker 1: gonna come back right nature a bore as a vacuum,

1033
00:57:27,680 --> 00:57:29,960
Speaker 1: So you're gonna have to manage them, you're gonna have

1034
00:57:30,040 --> 00:57:31,680
Speaker 1: to stay after them. But it can help give a

1035
00:57:31,880 --> 00:57:38,240
Speaker 1: temporary reprieve. So you know, when we're recommending those activities, again,

1036
00:57:38,320 --> 00:57:41,560
Speaker 1: from a feral hog perspective, it's you know, shoot shoot

1037
00:57:41,560 --> 00:57:44,240
Speaker 1: off and um. You know, you can hunt year round,

1038
00:57:44,280 --> 00:57:50,400
Speaker 1: there's no limits. UM. Legislation passed in our recent legislative

1039
00:57:50,440 --> 00:57:55,160
Speaker 1: session that if you're a landowner or a landowner's designated agent,

1040
00:57:55,200 --> 00:57:59,240
Speaker 1: you don't need a hunting license to hunt feral hogs. UM.

1041
00:57:59,280 --> 00:58:02,960
Speaker 1: But if you're us out shooting Farrell hogs or hunting

1042
00:58:02,960 --> 00:58:05,520
Speaker 1: Farrell hogs and you're not witnessing them in the act

1043
00:58:05,600 --> 00:58:09,440
Speaker 1: of depredating livestock or crops, uh, you really need a

1044
00:58:09,520 --> 00:58:12,640
Speaker 1: hunting license. So there's a little bit of a dichotomy

1045
00:58:12,720 --> 00:58:16,800
Speaker 1: um there from an enforcement perspective. But again, we we

1046
00:58:17,120 --> 00:58:21,400
Speaker 1: encourage the harvest of Farrell hogs. And so you know,

1047
00:58:21,440 --> 00:58:23,640
Speaker 1: we've tried to throw everything but the kitchen sink at

1048
00:58:23,680 --> 00:58:26,400
Speaker 1: it in Texas. UM. But but it still feels a

1049
00:58:26,440 --> 00:58:29,080
Speaker 1: little bit like Sisyphus pushing the rock up the hill

1050
00:58:29,080 --> 00:58:33,240
Speaker 1: at times. To what extent do you agree with the

1051
00:58:33,280 --> 00:58:41,640
Speaker 1: statement that enthusiasm around hog hunting actually drives increases hog

1052
00:58:41,760 --> 00:58:47,560
Speaker 1: numbers in Texas. Well, I think that's fair in parts. Yeah,

1053
00:58:47,600 --> 00:58:50,760
Speaker 1: I think that's fair in parts, Um, because people love

1054
00:58:50,840 --> 00:58:53,280
Speaker 1: coming to Texas to hunt hogs, and that's great. We

1055
00:58:53,320 --> 00:58:55,480
Speaker 1: want folks from out of state to come give us

1056
00:58:55,480 --> 00:58:58,120
Speaker 1: a chance to showcase our state, just like you know

1057
00:58:58,160 --> 00:58:59,880
Speaker 1: other states would like to do that or do that

1058
00:59:00,000 --> 00:59:01,840
Speaker 1: as well, and do it very very well. But yeah,

1059
00:59:01,840 --> 00:59:03,720
Speaker 1: I know we welcome and want folks to come to

1060
00:59:03,760 --> 00:59:06,600
Speaker 1: Texas to hunt hogs or deer, turkeys or quail or

1061
00:59:06,640 --> 00:59:11,080
Speaker 1: doves or waterfowl or whatever. Does that drive increased numbers

1062
00:59:11,200 --> 00:59:15,920
Speaker 1: or helped to artificially problem up? Well, I guess in

1063
00:59:15,920 --> 00:59:19,000
Speaker 1: the sense that is opposed to a management philosophy in

1064
00:59:19,040 --> 00:59:22,000
Speaker 1: that area in which people are really working to actively

1065
00:59:22,040 --> 00:59:25,520
Speaker 1: control them keep the numbers down. Yeah, it probably works

1066
00:59:25,560 --> 00:59:30,600
Speaker 1: against us. Um, is that the principal reason why hog

1067
00:59:30,720 --> 00:59:34,040
Speaker 1: numbers are just off the charts high in Texas, Probably

1068
00:59:34,040 --> 00:59:39,640
Speaker 1: not meaning high rates of reproduction, no real significant perdation.

1069
00:59:40,320 --> 00:59:42,320
Speaker 1: We don't shoot enough of them to be able to

1070
00:59:42,400 --> 00:59:45,640
Speaker 1: keep up with their biology of of of of reproduction

1071
00:59:45,720 --> 00:59:49,960
Speaker 1: and so um. Those factors have much more of a

1072
00:59:50,000 --> 00:59:54,840
Speaker 1: bearing than um the fact that you may have landowners

1073
00:59:54,840 --> 00:59:57,760
Speaker 1: in certain areas that you know, see see wild hogs

1074
00:59:57,760 --> 00:59:59,640
Speaker 1: as a resource for them. They are people who pay

1075
00:59:59,640 --> 01:00:02,200
Speaker 1: good money, need to come stay at their places and

1076
01:00:02,240 --> 01:00:05,520
Speaker 1: have a having experience hunting. Hogs love it. The great

1077
01:00:05,560 --> 01:00:09,680
Speaker 1: revenue stream for them, diversifies their operation, maybe makes it

1078
01:00:09,720 --> 01:00:12,480
Speaker 1: more likely that um, you know, they're able to manage

1079
01:00:12,480 --> 01:00:15,600
Speaker 1: their land, keep the family the property and the family

1080
01:00:15,640 --> 01:00:18,320
Speaker 1: and so forth. But I wouldn't say that as a

1081
01:00:18,360 --> 01:00:20,960
Speaker 1: big tipping point for why we have so many hogs

1082
01:00:20,960 --> 01:00:23,920
Speaker 1: in Texas. And imagine too, once they're established that it

1083
01:00:23,960 --> 01:00:26,240
Speaker 1: doesn't really matter. But you're I'm sure you're familiar with

1084
01:00:26,240 --> 01:00:29,320
Speaker 1: this that some states that are on the edge of

1085
01:00:30,800 --> 01:00:39,280
Speaker 1: the expansion of hogs will preemptively band hog hunting, Yeah,

1086
01:00:39,640 --> 01:00:43,080
Speaker 1: to de incentivize individuals who might think it'd be cool

1087
01:00:43,160 --> 01:00:45,800
Speaker 1: to bring them home. I don't blame them and cut

1088
01:00:45,800 --> 01:00:49,160
Speaker 1: it loose, yeah, And I will worry about that. Is

1089
01:00:49,480 --> 01:00:55,000
Speaker 1: some you know, disingenuous person comes and traps up load

1090
01:00:55,000 --> 01:00:58,400
Speaker 1: of hogs and Texas and then illegally transports them across

1091
01:00:58,440 --> 01:01:01,800
Speaker 1: state line and thanks, wouldn't this be fun to release

1092
01:01:01,880 --> 01:01:04,400
Speaker 1: them on my property? And you know state accident. I

1093
01:01:04,440 --> 01:01:07,240
Speaker 1: mean absolutely has happened, and it absolutely has happened. It

1094
01:01:07,240 --> 01:01:10,400
Speaker 1: does happen, um, and that's problem. But you guys have

1095
01:01:10,480 --> 01:01:13,080
Speaker 1: probably had hogs since then. We've had dogs for a

1096
01:01:13,080 --> 01:01:16,440
Speaker 1: long time, you know. Um, it's essentially like this place

1097
01:01:17,040 --> 01:01:20,360
Speaker 1: at this point, it's one could almost start to think

1098
01:01:20,400 --> 01:01:23,040
Speaker 1: of it as almost a native and not really. But

1099
01:01:23,080 --> 01:01:25,640
Speaker 1: we've been here hundreds of years. They've naturalized, right, I mean,

1100
01:01:25,640 --> 01:01:29,040
Speaker 1: that's how I think they've naturalized. You know, you think

1101
01:01:29,080 --> 01:01:33,800
Speaker 1: about hogs being brought over by the spaniards, Um, some

1102
01:01:33,920 --> 01:01:36,040
Speaker 1: of those practices, you know, I mean they turn them

1103
01:01:36,040 --> 01:01:39,439
Speaker 1: loose in the bottom lands and let them get fat

1104
01:01:39,440 --> 01:01:42,960
Speaker 1: in the winter and eat acorrange and uh and then

1105
01:01:43,040 --> 01:01:45,320
Speaker 1: looked up, you know, round them up such as it was.

1106
01:01:45,400 --> 01:01:49,920
Speaker 1: And and obviously then you had those feral hogs. Hogs

1107
01:01:50,000 --> 01:01:55,120
Speaker 1: that were originally domestic, get out, reproduce, start to rewild,

1108
01:01:55,240 --> 01:01:58,840
Speaker 1: produce a subsequent generation, produce another one. Next thing, you know,

1109
01:01:59,400 --> 01:02:04,000
Speaker 1: we've got wild hogs and and and in those numbers

1110
01:02:04,040 --> 01:02:07,840
Speaker 1: have just grown, and their geography has grown since I've

1111
01:02:07,840 --> 01:02:13,200
Speaker 1: had this job, which will be twelve years in January. Um. Again,

1112
01:02:13,280 --> 01:02:16,320
Speaker 1: no badge of honor here, but UM I think when

1113
01:02:16,320 --> 01:02:20,800
Speaker 1: I started, there were still maybe fifteen counties or so

1114
01:02:20,920 --> 01:02:24,400
Speaker 1: that we didn't have feral hogs in and would have thought, well,

1115
01:02:24,400 --> 01:02:26,400
Speaker 1: there's no way they're gonna get to El Paso, right,

1116
01:02:26,560 --> 01:02:28,280
Speaker 1: I mean, what's the what are they going to do there?

1117
01:02:29,040 --> 01:02:30,880
Speaker 1: And and then all of a sudden, well, it's seven

1118
01:02:30,880 --> 01:02:35,240
Speaker 1: counties that don't, then it's three, then it's one, and

1119
01:02:35,280 --> 01:02:37,560
Speaker 1: then pretty saying Okay, we've documented hawgs in every countyon

1120
01:02:37,640 --> 01:02:40,600
Speaker 1: and no one's come looking to kick you out of here. Oh.

1121
01:02:40,680 --> 01:02:43,800
Speaker 1: I'm sure they look for other reasons, but I don't

1122
01:02:43,840 --> 01:02:47,880
Speaker 1: think I've been blamed singlely for that that problem. One

1123
01:02:47,920 --> 01:02:50,600
Speaker 1: more question for you. I was reading the piece one

1124
01:02:50,640 --> 01:02:53,720
Speaker 1: time and I was talking about that somehow there's been

1125
01:02:53,760 --> 01:03:00,000
Speaker 1: like an oversight and shooting hogs some hot air balloons. Yeah,

1126
01:03:00,080 --> 01:03:03,320
Speaker 1: wasn't the what had was somehow illegal in the state?

1127
01:03:03,400 --> 01:03:06,640
Speaker 1: Remedied this is this true? Yeah? Yeah, No, there was

1128
01:03:06,720 --> 01:03:09,840
Speaker 1: someone someone identified a problem that like once they looked

1129
01:03:09,880 --> 01:03:11,720
Speaker 1: at the rule books, they realized they couldn't hunt from

1130
01:03:11,720 --> 01:03:15,240
Speaker 1: a hot air balloon. Yeah, and you know whether that's happened,

1131
01:03:15,280 --> 01:03:19,760
Speaker 1: I guess, but it's just so it's such a funny

1132
01:03:19,760 --> 01:03:22,520
Speaker 1: thing to realize. Was like like the when you look

1133
01:03:22,520 --> 01:03:25,960
Speaker 1: at the detail, you realize that hot air balloons are excluded.

1134
01:03:28,280 --> 01:03:32,120
Speaker 1: Let's go close time on that guy's hands. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

1135
01:03:32,360 --> 01:03:35,320
Speaker 1: no doubt, no doubt. Uh. Tell me about elk a

1136
01:03:35,320 --> 01:03:38,600
Speaker 1: little bit, because I know from I'm a member of

1137
01:03:38,800 --> 01:03:41,480
Speaker 1: Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation every year and I read I

1138
01:03:41,560 --> 01:03:43,400
Speaker 1: did a lot of greg work. Yeah, I read their

1139
01:03:43,480 --> 01:03:46,560
Speaker 1: their magazine. They come out with Bugle, and I think

1140
01:03:46,600 --> 01:03:48,080
Speaker 1: it was in there that I read a piece where

1141
01:03:48,920 --> 01:03:51,200
Speaker 1: Texas had a weird situation where elk had been extrapated

1142
01:03:51,200 --> 01:03:56,040
Speaker 1: out of Texas. Wasn't They've been gone for hundred plus years.

1143
01:03:56,360 --> 01:03:59,240
Speaker 1: There's some elk back now, and there's some sort of

1144
01:03:59,280 --> 01:04:03,320
Speaker 1: pro and on. There's pros and cons to whether elk

1145
01:04:03,320 --> 01:04:08,200
Speaker 1: would be regarded as a native animal in Texas and

1146
01:04:08,320 --> 01:04:12,280
Speaker 1: arguing about to what degree were they really present and where? Yeah,

1147
01:04:12,360 --> 01:04:14,800
Speaker 1: can you break this down talking about no, no no, no,

1148
01:04:14,920 --> 01:04:18,160
Speaker 1: I'm I'm acutely familiar with with that. And by the way,

1149
01:04:18,240 --> 01:04:22,280
Speaker 1: Rocky Mountnel Foundation just does terrific, terrific work. Um. I

1150
01:04:22,320 --> 01:04:24,320
Speaker 1: don't remember that. I don't remember it being I don't

1151
01:04:24,360 --> 01:04:26,840
Speaker 1: know that it was super critical of Texas. No, I mean,

1152
01:04:27,080 --> 01:04:29,000
Speaker 1: but it but it's but it's been a topic of

1153
01:04:29,080 --> 01:04:32,000
Speaker 1: interest for a while, I think because it helps explain

1154
01:04:32,040 --> 01:04:35,400
Speaker 1: wildlife politics. Yeah. Yeah, So, you know, historically they were

1155
01:04:35,400 --> 01:04:38,200
Speaker 1: elk in Texas and and probably covered a fair amount

1156
01:04:38,240 --> 01:04:40,280
Speaker 1: of the states. I mean, they were in the bresh lands,

1157
01:04:41,040 --> 01:04:43,800
Speaker 1: you know, UM, kind of down through the central part

1158
01:04:43,800 --> 01:04:46,280
Speaker 1: of the state. You know, maybe even along part of

1159
01:04:46,320 --> 01:04:50,400
Speaker 1: the part of the coast, um and um. And then

1160
01:04:50,560 --> 01:04:53,640
Speaker 1: you're right sometime in the you know, mid the late

1161
01:04:53,640 --> 01:04:57,560
Speaker 1: teen late eighteen hundreds, they really contracted and you know

1162
01:04:57,600 --> 01:05:00,360
Speaker 1: there were some relic elk up in the Guadalupe Mountains

1163
01:05:00,360 --> 01:05:04,560
Speaker 1: on the New Mexico border. UM. Probably some free range

1164
01:05:04,560 --> 01:05:07,120
Speaker 1: in elk that still wandered through the Texas Panhandle and

1165
01:05:07,200 --> 01:05:11,480
Speaker 1: parts of other parts of West Texas, but largely extirpated

1166
01:05:11,480 --> 01:05:14,280
Speaker 1: from the state. But we as an agency, we consider

1167
01:05:14,440 --> 01:05:19,440
Speaker 1: elk to be native historically they were here. As an agency,

1168
01:05:19,560 --> 01:05:22,360
Speaker 1: they were, they are they are a native species of wildlife.

1169
01:05:22,720 --> 01:05:25,760
Speaker 1: Now here's where the rubber hits the road. You translate.

1170
01:05:25,840 --> 01:05:28,680
Speaker 1: That will show me where elk are in Texas and

1171
01:05:28,680 --> 01:05:30,760
Speaker 1: how they get there, if they always been there, where

1172
01:05:30,760 --> 01:05:34,480
Speaker 1: they introduced and that, And it's a really eclectic mix

1173
01:05:34,520 --> 01:05:40,880
Speaker 1: of situation so like um like, for example, elk absent

1174
01:05:41,040 --> 01:05:44,560
Speaker 1: largely from big parts of Transpacas or West Texas are

1175
01:05:44,600 --> 01:05:49,920
Speaker 1: mountainous country historically no, no, no, in recent time, yeah,

1176
01:05:50,000 --> 01:05:53,200
Speaker 1: and so and so let's say forty years ago, Parks

1177
01:05:53,200 --> 01:05:56,840
Speaker 1: and Wildlife works to then go get elk from rocky

1178
01:05:56,880 --> 01:06:01,400
Speaker 1: mountain states to restock elk in parts of West Texas.

1179
01:06:01,480 --> 01:06:04,080
Speaker 1: And so we've got elk in the mountains, and that

1180
01:06:04,200 --> 01:06:06,960
Speaker 1: was going on. Was that going on four years ago? Yeah, Okay,

1181
01:06:07,200 --> 01:06:10,960
Speaker 1: already forty years ago, so that was certainly certainly going on. Um,

1182
01:06:11,000 --> 01:06:14,040
Speaker 1: you know, lots of efforts of course, is biologists were

1183
01:06:14,040 --> 01:06:17,960
Speaker 1: working to restock fish and game populations that had been

1184
01:06:18,360 --> 01:06:21,960
Speaker 1: um pushed lower for a variety of and sometimes with

1185
01:06:22,000 --> 01:06:24,440
Speaker 1: the kind of a cavalier approach and in in in

1186
01:06:24,560 --> 01:06:27,800
Speaker 1: some as you look back on it, uh, some of

1187
01:06:27,840 --> 01:06:32,480
Speaker 1: it looks a little bit that way. Clear everybody out

1188
01:06:32,520 --> 01:06:35,479
Speaker 1: and drive off. And then we've come a lot, we've

1189
01:06:35,520 --> 01:06:38,080
Speaker 1: come along to what we've got a long way, Uh,

1190
01:06:38,120 --> 01:06:40,800
Speaker 1: in that in that regard, particularly with disease concerns and

1191
01:06:41,200 --> 01:06:44,720
Speaker 1: you know, concerned about health related issues, capture related, my apathy,

1192
01:06:44,760 --> 01:06:48,880
Speaker 1: all those issues that that translocating animals has come a

1193
01:06:49,000 --> 01:06:52,520
Speaker 1: long long way since the wild West days and when

1194
01:06:52,560 --> 01:06:55,240
Speaker 1: you're referring to. But so, the department did a lot

1195
01:06:55,280 --> 01:06:58,800
Speaker 1: of restocking of elk in the in the state. Um,

1196
01:06:58,800 --> 01:07:01,600
Speaker 1: in state, in the we're treated as a game animal

1197
01:07:02,200 --> 01:07:06,160
Speaker 1: up until I think the mid nineties, and the legislature

1198
01:07:06,320 --> 01:07:11,200
Speaker 1: was petitioned by landowners out in West Texas to declassify

1199
01:07:11,240 --> 01:07:14,400
Speaker 1: it as as no longer being a game man because

1200
01:07:14,400 --> 01:07:16,920
Speaker 1: that would mean what So what that means is is

1201
01:07:16,960 --> 01:07:20,480
Speaker 1: no longer it now became classified as an exotic and

1202
01:07:20,560 --> 01:07:25,080
Speaker 1: so no seasons, no bag limits, you need a hunting license.

1203
01:07:25,560 --> 01:07:29,760
Speaker 1: But basically, as a landowner, you could manage the hunting

1204
01:07:29,760 --> 01:07:32,520
Speaker 1: of elk or opportunity to hunt on your on your

1205
01:07:32,520 --> 01:07:36,240
Speaker 1: property or ranch without worried about, well the elk season

1206
01:07:36,360 --> 01:07:39,080
Speaker 1: is only a month long or I'm only going to

1207
01:07:39,160 --> 01:07:43,520
Speaker 1: get three bull tags. Um. You know, basically you had

1208
01:07:43,560 --> 01:07:46,880
Speaker 1: the ability to decide how you were going to manage elk,

1209
01:07:47,000 --> 01:07:50,320
Speaker 1: how you were gonna hunt elk, and so how how

1210
01:07:50,440 --> 01:07:52,280
Speaker 1: is the state. If someone proposed that, for dear, you

1211
01:07:52,280 --> 01:07:55,440
Speaker 1: wouldn't like it. No, So how is how what is

1212
01:07:55,480 --> 01:07:58,240
Speaker 1: the argument? I mean, I understand, just I understand on

1213
01:07:58,920 --> 01:08:03,000
Speaker 1: the individual land on their basis, most people and I

1214
01:08:03,000 --> 01:08:05,320
Speaker 1: would be included in this. Probably most people are gonna

1215
01:08:05,320 --> 01:08:09,320
Speaker 1: want a higher degree of autonomy on one's own property.

1216
01:08:09,440 --> 01:08:11,680
Speaker 1: But like I said, someone Canden proposed that to you,

1217
01:08:11,760 --> 01:08:15,040
Speaker 1: Like I said, you know what for no on um,

1218
01:08:15,080 --> 01:08:16,800
Speaker 1: I want you to just give me the okay to

1219
01:08:16,840 --> 01:08:19,040
Speaker 1: do what I want with mallards that are on my property.

1220
01:08:19,040 --> 01:08:20,400
Speaker 1: I want a hunt the year around as much as

1221
01:08:20,439 --> 01:08:23,680
Speaker 1: I want. You're gonna say no, way to resist. But

1222
01:08:23,680 --> 01:08:26,439
Speaker 1: but here's what I didn't finish on the history of

1223
01:08:26,640 --> 01:08:32,200
Speaker 1: elk in Texas. What also began to crop up were

1224
01:08:32,880 --> 01:08:39,320
Speaker 1: private individuals bringing in elk from captive elk farms, and essentially,

1225
01:08:40,000 --> 01:08:43,120
Speaker 1: um there were all of these kind of high fence

1226
01:08:43,200 --> 01:08:45,559
Speaker 1: hunting ranges in which you know, elk might be placed

1227
01:08:45,600 --> 01:08:49,240
Speaker 1: on in in areas where probably historically there weren't elk,

1228
01:08:49,360 --> 01:08:52,679
Speaker 1: or they were intermittent at best, And so you had

1229
01:08:52,800 --> 01:08:56,040
Speaker 1: kind of all these captive elk herds, and so the

1230
01:08:56,080 --> 01:09:00,280
Speaker 1: state became kind of a grab bag of of of

1231
01:09:00,479 --> 01:09:06,760
Speaker 1: elk from different locations, managed differently different settings. UM. So

1232
01:09:06,960 --> 01:09:10,600
Speaker 1: we've been in this situation now where elk, while we

1233
01:09:10,720 --> 01:09:16,240
Speaker 1: consider them native um statutorially, they're still considered an exotic

1234
01:09:16,720 --> 01:09:19,240
Speaker 1: and so you don't have the same kind of regulations

1235
01:09:19,280 --> 01:09:23,080
Speaker 1: that um, you know, traditional big game have and you

1236
01:09:23,120 --> 01:09:25,920
Speaker 1: have like you don't have management authority over we we

1237
01:09:25,960 --> 01:09:29,559
Speaker 1: don't have management authority. They continued to do. They continue

1238
01:09:29,600 --> 01:09:32,720
Speaker 1: to thrive in areas that would be regarded as potentially

1239
01:09:32,760 --> 01:09:35,240
Speaker 1: historic range. Yeah. So the elk are doing pretty well

1240
01:09:35,280 --> 01:09:37,479
Speaker 1: in parts of West Texas. So for example, you know,

1241
01:09:37,479 --> 01:09:40,800
Speaker 1: the Davis Mountains is a very popular area for people

1242
01:09:40,840 --> 01:09:43,559
Speaker 1: to go hunt you know, free range elk in a

1243
01:09:43,640 --> 01:09:47,040
Speaker 1: mountain setting that looks like New Mexico, and so you

1244
01:09:47,080 --> 01:09:49,200
Speaker 1: know places you might have a legitimate chance at a

1245
01:09:49,240 --> 01:09:53,720
Speaker 1: four bull um, so pretty significant bull elk. You know,

1246
01:09:53,840 --> 01:09:56,680
Speaker 1: it a at what people would think of you know

1247
01:09:56,720 --> 01:09:59,559
Speaker 1: today is kind of a traditional Western kind of mountain

1248
01:10:00,040 --> 01:10:04,799
Speaker 1: mountain hunt. Um. But that dichotomy that you mentioned about,

1249
01:10:04,920 --> 01:10:07,080
Speaker 1: you know, some groups would like to see him reclassified

1250
01:10:07,080 --> 01:10:09,840
Speaker 1: as a game animal and have the state takeover management

1251
01:10:10,400 --> 01:10:12,479
Speaker 1: of them. Others want to make sure they stay in

1252
01:10:12,520 --> 01:10:15,000
Speaker 1: their current form where they've got that kind of autonomy

1253
01:10:15,040 --> 01:10:18,360
Speaker 1: that you spoke to that tends to split landowners right

1254
01:10:18,400 --> 01:10:21,120
Speaker 1: down the middle and West Texas. Some of them, Yeah,

1255
01:10:21,240 --> 01:10:23,240
Speaker 1: we like the way it is. We want to continue

1256
01:10:23,280 --> 01:10:26,120
Speaker 1: to have that independence. Others of them say no, we'd

1257
01:10:26,120 --> 01:10:31,400
Speaker 1: like to see it be a game animal. The elk farms,

1258
01:10:31,760 --> 01:10:36,080
Speaker 1: the kind of the elk ranches, that's a whole separate deal,

1259
01:10:36,240 --> 01:10:40,000
Speaker 1: separate and apart from you know, free range elk populations

1260
01:10:40,040 --> 01:10:42,280
Speaker 1: in in far West Texas. I think you'd have to

1261
01:10:42,320 --> 01:10:46,320
Speaker 1: treat those differently. Um, just very very different settings in

1262
01:10:46,320 --> 01:10:50,240
Speaker 1: in in in circumstances from a management perspective, and uh

1263
01:10:50,280 --> 01:10:52,400
Speaker 1: and so that in fact that the state's Animal Health

1264
01:10:52,400 --> 01:10:56,240
Speaker 1: Commission has really the regulatory jurisdiction over elk is an

1265
01:10:56,240 --> 01:10:59,639
Speaker 1: exotic not the not fortune Wildlife Department. You just mentioned

1266
01:11:00,800 --> 01:11:03,599
Speaker 1: the difference between elk herd that might be rolling around

1267
01:11:03,600 --> 01:11:07,200
Speaker 1: freely and the elk herd that might be contained an

1268
01:11:07,200 --> 01:11:12,920
Speaker 1: offense on one individual's private property. Explain to me the

1269
01:11:12,960 --> 01:11:15,680
Speaker 1: regulatory difference. Let's leave elk aside, and let's just talk

1270
01:11:15,680 --> 01:11:19,000
Speaker 1: about deer or something else. How does the state view

1271
01:11:19,000 --> 01:11:23,160
Speaker 1: those two things differently? Where free ranging deer um that

1272
01:11:23,320 --> 01:11:26,640
Speaker 1: are you know, it could be on county land, that

1273
01:11:26,720 --> 01:11:29,559
Speaker 1: could be on an individual's private farm. They're moving around

1274
01:11:30,160 --> 01:11:32,639
Speaker 1: the state. You know, the people own them. And then

1275
01:11:32,680 --> 01:11:36,360
Speaker 1: you have deer herds that are privately held and held

1276
01:11:36,400 --> 01:11:39,960
Speaker 1: in to a specific land owned property by offense. Does

1277
01:11:39,960 --> 01:11:45,280
Speaker 1: the state have to treat those two different deer populations

1278
01:11:45,320 --> 01:11:48,280
Speaker 1: differently or is your view that it's it's all dear

1279
01:11:48,360 --> 01:11:52,439
Speaker 1: and it all falls under the same regulatory structure. All

1280
01:11:52,479 --> 01:11:55,880
Speaker 1: all deer belong to the people of Texas. The public

1281
01:11:55,960 --> 01:12:01,600
Speaker 1: trust doctrine in this notion of public ownership of wildlife prevails,

1282
01:12:01,880 --> 01:12:05,920
Speaker 1: UM and there's a long history of that, not just

1283
01:12:06,000 --> 01:12:08,280
Speaker 1: in our state, but all across the country. That's the

1284
01:12:08,360 --> 01:12:12,160
Speaker 1: foundation for the North American model UM, and that's what

1285
01:12:12,200 --> 01:12:18,000
Speaker 1: we subscribe to. And certainly legally and UM philosophically. You know,

1286
01:12:18,080 --> 01:12:21,200
Speaker 1: we believe that all dear, irrespective of whether they live

1287
01:12:21,280 --> 01:12:23,519
Speaker 1: behind a low fence or a high fence, or in

1288
01:12:23,600 --> 01:12:26,880
Speaker 1: a captive game form or out you know, in a

1289
01:12:27,000 --> 01:12:30,320
Speaker 1: completely free range environment, those deers still belong to the

1290
01:12:30,360 --> 01:12:33,639
Speaker 1: people of Texas, and so so in a high fence atmosphere,

1291
01:12:33,640 --> 01:12:36,160
Speaker 1: even where you bring in you might bring in like

1292
01:12:36,240 --> 01:12:41,760
Speaker 1: introduced for genetic purposes, introduced new deer by dear move

1293
01:12:41,840 --> 01:12:45,519
Speaker 1: them around. That still has to be managed according to

1294
01:12:46,280 --> 01:12:49,640
Speaker 1: rules set by the state. Yes, And the reason for

1295
01:12:49,720 --> 01:12:53,840
Speaker 1: that is that is that interface between you know, free

1296
01:12:53,920 --> 01:12:58,800
Speaker 1: range populations of deer and captive populations of deer. The

1297
01:12:58,920 --> 01:13:03,200
Speaker 1: release of active bred deer into you know, high fenced

1298
01:13:03,240 --> 01:13:07,080
Speaker 1: ranches or what are called release sites, there's still ample

1299
01:13:07,080 --> 01:13:12,480
Speaker 1: opportunity for those deer to connect and and and have connections.

1300
01:13:12,479 --> 01:13:15,519
Speaker 1: And of course we all know fences are are are

1301
01:13:15,640 --> 01:13:18,760
Speaker 1: anything but infallible. You know, it's like blow out, a

1302
01:13:18,800 --> 01:13:22,040
Speaker 1: water gap goes down, a tree falls on them. You know,

1303
01:13:22,120 --> 01:13:26,880
Speaker 1: a bull runs through uh a fence, um, whatever, the

1304
01:13:27,120 --> 01:13:30,040
Speaker 1: group of hogs runs under whatever. So you know, by

1305
01:13:30,120 --> 01:13:34,200
Speaker 1: by no means or those impenetrable. So high fence operation

1306
01:13:34,720 --> 01:13:37,559
Speaker 1: in Texas there's still an opening day. Yeah, there's still

1307
01:13:37,600 --> 01:13:40,160
Speaker 1: a there's still an opening day of of of of

1308
01:13:40,240 --> 01:13:44,600
Speaker 1: deer season. And you know that's one of those great traditions,

1309
01:13:44,760 --> 01:13:48,360
Speaker 1: rites of passage. And and I wouldn't think of all

1310
01:13:48,479 --> 01:13:52,080
Speaker 1: high fence properties is somehow radically different than all low

1311
01:13:52,120 --> 01:13:56,160
Speaker 1: fence properties either. Um, you know, because because the scale, yeah,

1312
01:13:56,200 --> 01:13:58,799
Speaker 1: the scale of them. That's a that's a great point.

1313
01:13:58,880 --> 01:14:01,599
Speaker 1: And don't think and and and you know, our listeners

1314
01:14:01,600 --> 01:14:05,320
Speaker 1: shouldn't think that because somebody has a high fence around

1315
01:14:05,320 --> 01:14:08,240
Speaker 1: their ranch that they're involved in the breeding of deer,

1316
01:14:08,720 --> 01:14:12,360
Speaker 1: the captive breeding of of deer. That's that's that's not

1317
01:14:12,560 --> 01:14:15,240
Speaker 1: necessarily the case. I mean, we have two hundred and

1318
01:14:15,240 --> 01:14:18,280
Speaker 1: fifty thousand landowners in our state and about a thousand

1319
01:14:18,360 --> 01:14:20,760
Speaker 1: deer breeders. But you know, there are lots of high

1320
01:14:20,800 --> 01:14:23,280
Speaker 1: fenced ranches, but the scale of them may be very

1321
01:14:23,360 --> 01:14:27,160
Speaker 1: vast um and and so you still have the same

1322
01:14:27,200 --> 01:14:32,080
Speaker 1: kind of opportunities for uh, you know, fair chase and

1323
01:14:32,439 --> 01:14:35,839
Speaker 1: in in in hunting. However you choose to to hunt,

1324
01:14:36,320 --> 01:14:38,640
Speaker 1: there may be a high fence around you know, some

1325
01:14:38,880 --> 01:14:41,599
Speaker 1: or all of those property, and that that fence maybe

1326
01:14:42,439 --> 01:14:47,160
Speaker 1: uh more or less uh effective at keeping deer in

1327
01:14:47,360 --> 01:14:51,200
Speaker 1: or out. Um And so, you know, folks tend to

1328
01:14:51,240 --> 01:14:54,000
Speaker 1: think about Texas, you know, in that way and have

1329
01:14:54,120 --> 01:14:58,280
Speaker 1: this very kind of negative or pejorative perspective on on

1330
01:14:58,360 --> 01:15:00,559
Speaker 1: on on high fences if you come from states in

1331
01:15:00,600 --> 01:15:04,360
Speaker 1: which that's not so commonplace. What really really focus on

1332
01:15:04,479 --> 01:15:07,000
Speaker 1: is the management behind the fence. What are they doing

1333
01:15:07,080 --> 01:15:10,320
Speaker 1: from a habitat management perspective, how are they managing it

1334
01:15:10,400 --> 01:15:13,799
Speaker 1: to promote habitat diversity? How are they managing the game?

1335
01:15:13,920 --> 01:15:18,800
Speaker 1: They're the non game, the unique species, And so the

1336
01:15:18,920 --> 01:15:22,439
Speaker 1: issue is more that management and stewardship, not so much

1337
01:15:22,520 --> 01:15:25,519
Speaker 1: the height of the fence. Can you explain some of

1338
01:15:25,560 --> 01:15:32,200
Speaker 1: the some of the governments around um xiotics and movement

1339
01:15:32,200 --> 01:15:35,280
Speaker 1: of EOCTs, Like like, I'm assuming I couldn't, let's say,

1340
01:15:35,400 --> 01:15:39,280
Speaker 1: somehow got my hands on a truckload of jaguars. I'm

1341
01:15:39,280 --> 01:15:42,200
Speaker 1: assuming I can't just turn the jaguars loose. Yeah no, So,

1342
01:15:42,280 --> 01:15:45,479
Speaker 1: so what is okay and what's not okay? Yeah? No,

1343
01:15:45,760 --> 01:15:50,160
Speaker 1: So those kind of wild dangerous animals obvious legal prohibitions

1344
01:15:50,240 --> 01:15:53,880
Speaker 1: on first being able to have one and captivate or

1345
01:15:54,040 --> 01:15:57,400
Speaker 1: much less released one into the end of the wild. Inevitably,

1346
01:15:57,439 --> 01:16:01,760
Speaker 1: after some hurricane or storm um in some area, you know,

1347
01:16:01,800 --> 01:16:05,000
Speaker 1: we may get a call about somebody that had a

1348
01:16:05,040 --> 01:16:07,800
Speaker 1: line that nobody knew about, and you know, obviously there's

1349
01:16:07,800 --> 01:16:09,439
Speaker 1: a lot of a lot of concern about that for

1350
01:16:09,479 --> 01:16:11,920
Speaker 1: obvious reasons. But you guys, you guys will have a

1351
01:16:11,960 --> 01:16:15,360
Speaker 1: list of the world's animals with a checker and x next,

1352
01:16:15,520 --> 01:16:18,880
Speaker 1: we don't in parts and wildlife doesn't regulate exochs um.

1353
01:16:18,960 --> 01:16:21,240
Speaker 1: You know, that's not that's not what we do, at

1354
01:16:21,280 --> 01:16:24,120
Speaker 1: least on the animal side. We have some overlap there

1355
01:16:24,160 --> 01:16:27,360
Speaker 1: on aquatic exotic plants that were involved in but that's

1356
01:16:27,360 --> 01:16:31,879
Speaker 1: a whole different, different area of management and stewardship and control.

1357
01:16:31,920 --> 01:16:35,760
Speaker 1: But from an exotic animal perspective, that is managed through

1358
01:16:35,840 --> 01:16:39,560
Speaker 1: the state's Animal Health Commission UM, and so different regulatory

1359
01:16:39,560 --> 01:16:43,240
Speaker 1: structure in in entity. You know, there's certainly landowners all

1360
01:16:43,240 --> 01:16:46,120
Speaker 1: across Texas that have got interest in exotic game. That's

1361
01:16:46,280 --> 01:16:50,720
Speaker 1: very popular fallow deer, access to your black buck antelope

1362
01:16:51,439 --> 01:16:54,120
Speaker 1: all day out, or you know, many many free range

1363
01:16:55,040 --> 01:16:58,559
Speaker 1: environments now um. And so a lot of folks interesting that.

1364
01:16:58,600 --> 01:17:00,880
Speaker 1: From a wildlife and a hunting per aspective, it's it's

1365
01:17:00,880 --> 01:17:02,560
Speaker 1: it's pretty popular in our state, but we don't have

1366
01:17:02,560 --> 01:17:05,280
Speaker 1: any regulatory authority. You gotta have a hunting license to

1367
01:17:05,280 --> 01:17:08,240
Speaker 1: to hunt them. Um. But what about situations where that

1368
01:17:08,320 --> 01:17:11,920
Speaker 1: stuff winds up impacting the things that you do have

1369
01:17:12,000 --> 01:17:15,920
Speaker 1: prove view over? Yeah, great, great questions. So so most

1370
01:17:16,000 --> 01:17:19,240
Speaker 1: of our wildlife work in Texas, as we talked about earlier,

1371
01:17:19,320 --> 01:17:23,559
Speaker 1: is on private lands. It's it's in concert with private landowners.

1372
01:17:23,600 --> 01:17:27,360
Speaker 1: It's voluntary, it's collaborative. Put this in perspective. You know,

1373
01:17:27,439 --> 01:17:31,880
Speaker 1: we provide technical assistance on wildlife management to landowners all

1374
01:17:31,920 --> 01:17:35,080
Speaker 1: over the state and we have roughly thirty million plus

1375
01:17:35,120 --> 01:17:39,519
Speaker 1: acres under a department approved wildlife management plan that's about

1376
01:17:40,280 --> 01:17:42,559
Speaker 1: of the state. So that's kind of evidence of that

1377
01:17:42,640 --> 01:17:45,160
Speaker 1: and that interest. You know, the first thing our biologists

1378
01:17:45,160 --> 01:17:48,320
Speaker 1: are going to do with their landowner partners are what

1379
01:17:48,400 --> 01:17:51,200
Speaker 1: are your goals, what are your interests, and so, you know,

1380
01:17:51,360 --> 01:17:56,320
Speaker 1: for landowners are interested in both exotics and native game,

1381
01:17:57,000 --> 01:17:59,639
Speaker 1: you know, we want to respect that. We're obviously much

1382
01:17:59,640 --> 01:18:02,439
Speaker 1: more interested on the native game, and that's what we're

1383
01:18:02,439 --> 01:18:05,240
Speaker 1: going to work to help promote and really spend most

1384
01:18:05,280 --> 01:18:09,480
Speaker 1: of our time on um. And you know, we've encouraged

1385
01:18:09,520 --> 01:18:12,160
Speaker 1: them to make sure that those numbers of exotics are

1386
01:18:12,200 --> 01:18:14,120
Speaker 1: managed in such a way that it doesn't have an

1387
01:18:14,160 --> 01:18:17,520
Speaker 1: adverse impact on the on the native game and particularly

1388
01:18:17,560 --> 01:18:22,479
Speaker 1: the native habitat um. But again, we want to be

1389
01:18:22,560 --> 01:18:24,720
Speaker 1: very sensitive to the goals of the individual land owner.

1390
01:18:24,760 --> 01:18:28,240
Speaker 1: So if a landowner is very interested in you know,

1391
01:18:28,560 --> 01:18:31,400
Speaker 1: his or her access tore on their property or their

1392
01:18:31,439 --> 01:18:34,559
Speaker 1: black buck antelope, um, to the extent that can be

1393
01:18:34,600 --> 01:18:37,479
Speaker 1: incorporated into a wildlife management plan because the landowners are

1394
01:18:37,439 --> 01:18:40,200
Speaker 1: going to be managing for that anyway, um, and they're

1395
01:18:40,200 --> 01:18:42,920
Speaker 1: gonna hunt them, they're gonna enjoy them, they're gonna utilize

1396
01:18:42,920 --> 01:18:45,519
Speaker 1: them to the extent that all that can be balanced.

1397
01:18:45,560 --> 01:18:47,720
Speaker 1: That's just something that our biologists have to work through.

1398
01:18:47,920 --> 01:18:50,479
Speaker 1: But we're focused on the native game. That's our area

1399
01:18:50,479 --> 01:18:54,280
Speaker 1: of emphasis. But then if someone owns an if someone

1400
01:18:54,320 --> 01:18:57,000
Speaker 1: has a property of private property and the owner and

1401
01:18:57,080 --> 01:19:01,280
Speaker 1: exotic on the private property, if that exotic animal escapes,

1402
01:19:02,600 --> 01:19:05,120
Speaker 1: they no longer on that animal. Correct. No, you'd have

1403
01:19:05,160 --> 01:19:07,680
Speaker 1: to get you know, permission from a neighbor to go

1404
01:19:08,080 --> 01:19:12,240
Speaker 1: and try to recapture that that animal. That that that

1405
01:19:12,439 --> 01:19:18,639
Speaker 1: ownership doesn't extend like a loose cow or a loose horse.

1406
01:19:18,680 --> 01:19:22,000
Speaker 1: So there's some some differences there. You know, if I

1407
01:19:22,080 --> 01:19:26,559
Speaker 1: had that you know, heard of of of of access

1408
01:19:26,640 --> 01:19:31,640
Speaker 1: to here and it went over to your ranch, no no, no,

1409
01:19:32,000 --> 01:19:34,439
Speaker 1: or come over and fly over and trap them and

1410
01:19:34,479 --> 01:19:38,200
Speaker 1: bring them back, Um, you'd have the ability to file

1411
01:19:38,439 --> 01:19:41,040
Speaker 1: you know, trespassing charges against me. So i'd have to

1412
01:19:41,080 --> 01:19:43,439
Speaker 1: have your permission. Yeah, But I would not be able

1413
01:19:43,479 --> 01:19:46,800
Speaker 1: to go run down and sell your cattle. No, no,

1414
01:19:46,920 --> 01:19:50,160
Speaker 1: absolutely not. Have there been cases in Texas where you

1415
01:19:50,160 --> 01:19:53,479
Speaker 1: guys have had to where there's been an introduction of

1416
01:19:53,520 --> 01:19:57,800
Speaker 1: an exotic where you had to go and sort of

1417
01:19:57,840 --> 01:20:02,400
Speaker 1: catch it and stop it successfully. Or is the nature

1418
01:20:02,439 --> 01:20:06,000
Speaker 1: of the landscape here such that when things get out

1419
01:20:06,040 --> 01:20:10,280
Speaker 1: there just kind of out, you know, more of the

1420
01:20:10,400 --> 01:20:15,200
Speaker 1: latter than the former. When we're thinking about, um, wildlife

1421
01:20:15,200 --> 01:20:19,120
Speaker 1: and particularly large ungulates you know again, you know, kind

1422
01:20:19,120 --> 01:20:21,960
Speaker 1: of deer and elk like animals that we hunt. You

1423
01:20:22,200 --> 01:20:26,200
Speaker 1: got to remember that this kind of history of landowners

1424
01:20:26,920 --> 01:20:32,680
Speaker 1: bringing in exotic game for sport and also for wildlife conservation,

1425
01:20:32,760 --> 01:20:36,040
Speaker 1: you know, helping to you know, bring back populations of

1426
01:20:36,160 --> 01:20:39,720
Speaker 1: scimitar horned ore. Yeah. It's interesting where oftentimes it's been

1427
01:20:39,720 --> 01:20:42,800
Speaker 1: that Texas will have more of some species than it

1428
01:20:42,880 --> 01:20:46,280
Speaker 1: doesn't it's native, yeah, that's right, um. And it's it

1429
01:20:46,360 --> 01:20:51,240
Speaker 1: helps prevent genetic extinction, that exactly, exactly. Um. But that's

1430
01:20:51,240 --> 01:20:54,519
Speaker 1: been going on since the thirties and forties and fifties,

1431
01:20:54,560 --> 01:20:56,880
Speaker 1: so there's a long history. So you know, you would say,

1432
01:20:56,880 --> 01:21:00,480
Speaker 1: you know, take your most most well known and populist

1433
01:21:00,520 --> 01:21:04,519
Speaker 1: exotic game animals axis or fallow or psycho or black

1434
01:21:04,600 --> 01:21:09,120
Speaker 1: buck or all dad. You know, they've really naturalized. Um,

1435
01:21:09,360 --> 01:21:13,320
Speaker 1: not native, but they've naturalized, so they're here to stay UM.

1436
01:21:13,439 --> 01:21:18,680
Speaker 1: Where today, what we would see is perhaps there is

1437
01:21:18,760 --> 01:21:25,679
Speaker 1: a a really invasive or exotic uh fish or a

1438
01:21:25,720 --> 01:21:31,120
Speaker 1: snake um or a plant that our biologists are made

1439
01:21:31,240 --> 01:21:35,479
Speaker 1: aware of in a localized area. More likely the result

1440
01:21:35,800 --> 01:21:39,479
Speaker 1: of somebody tired of having something as a pet and

1441
01:21:39,560 --> 01:21:41,840
Speaker 1: they turn it loose in a city park or a

1442
01:21:41,880 --> 01:21:45,479
Speaker 1: county park. We're gonna find it and we're gonna kill it. Um.

1443
01:21:45,560 --> 01:21:47,880
Speaker 1: You know. And that's the ounce of prevention is worth

1444
01:21:47,920 --> 01:21:51,160
Speaker 1: a pound to cure um because just as you said,

1445
01:21:51,240 --> 01:21:53,920
Speaker 1: you want to jump on that and stop it from

1446
01:21:53,920 --> 01:21:57,200
Speaker 1: being a problem. UM. And you don't have to to

1447
01:21:57,200 --> 01:22:00,439
Speaker 1: to look any further to something like you know, zebra

1448
01:22:00,560 --> 01:22:07,480
Speaker 1: muscles um or giant Salvinian water hyacinth. You know, exotic

1449
01:22:07,560 --> 01:22:11,960
Speaker 1: plants highly de Yeah, they just take off. So we

1450
01:22:12,080 --> 01:22:14,160
Speaker 1: find an outbreak like that in a like, we're gonna

1451
01:22:14,160 --> 01:22:17,160
Speaker 1: go hammer it with with herbicide to see what we

1452
01:22:17,160 --> 01:22:19,519
Speaker 1: can do to help kill those plants to keep it

1453
01:22:19,560 --> 01:22:22,120
Speaker 1: from getting established. We don't see that, so much in

1454
01:22:22,240 --> 01:22:25,800
Speaker 1: terms of big animals. But you know, occasionally our our

1455
01:22:25,880 --> 01:22:29,879
Speaker 1: our biologists will get a call about again a snake

1456
01:22:30,400 --> 01:22:34,600
Speaker 1: UM or you know something or a fish. It's localized

1457
01:22:34,640 --> 01:22:37,120
Speaker 1: that we can find and and and try to deal

1458
01:22:37,120 --> 01:22:42,000
Speaker 1: with that problem before it spreads. What is your perspective

1459
01:22:42,120 --> 01:22:49,640
Speaker 1: on concerns about UM with chronic wasting disease significant? You know,

1460
01:22:49,680 --> 01:22:52,000
Speaker 1: when you look at deer and deer hunting um in

1461
01:22:52,040 --> 01:22:54,320
Speaker 1: Texas and the magnitude of that, just how important it

1462
01:22:54,360 --> 01:22:58,719
Speaker 1: is um from you know, not just the million hundred

1463
01:22:58,720 --> 01:23:02,840
Speaker 1: thousand hunters that we have of in Texas, but um,

1464
01:23:02,960 --> 01:23:06,320
Speaker 1: how important that is to real estate values in our state.

1465
01:23:06,360 --> 01:23:08,760
Speaker 1: I mean basically rural land values or And that's that's

1466
01:23:08,760 --> 01:23:10,960
Speaker 1: a good point. I never thought of, man, Yes, because

1467
01:23:11,000 --> 01:23:14,240
Speaker 1: the huge owning deer properties you've got huge said that

1468
01:23:14,280 --> 01:23:18,280
Speaker 1: people would be become obviously less interesting. Yes, yeah, I

1469
01:23:18,280 --> 01:23:20,439
Speaker 1: know they'd be very concerned about it. Um. You know

1470
01:23:20,479 --> 01:23:22,760
Speaker 1: just how important hunting is our rural communities around the

1471
01:23:22,800 --> 01:23:25,840
Speaker 1: state from a tourism perspective and economic development. I mean,

1472
01:23:25,840 --> 01:23:28,200
Speaker 1: you go to these little towns and the central part

1473
01:23:28,240 --> 01:23:31,680
Speaker 1: of the state opening weekend their season, and of cafes

1474
01:23:31,720 --> 01:23:34,439
Speaker 1: and motels and the hardware stores and the gas stations

1475
01:23:34,439 --> 01:23:36,559
Speaker 1: are packed to the gills. So people on camouflage and

1476
01:23:36,640 --> 01:23:40,320
Speaker 1: so that's real money. UM, that that's out of county money,

1477
01:23:40,360 --> 01:23:42,800
Speaker 1: and it makes an impact locally. And so you guys

1478
01:23:42,840 --> 01:23:45,000
Speaker 1: have had a couple of positives now right, we we have.

1479
01:23:45,120 --> 01:23:48,000
Speaker 1: So we've got we've got kind of three nodes of

1480
01:23:48,080 --> 01:23:52,280
Speaker 1: c w D and our our states by no means pervasive. UM.

1481
01:23:52,320 --> 01:23:54,880
Speaker 1: The first node is out right near the New Mexico border,

1482
01:23:54,960 --> 01:23:57,200
Speaker 1: just east of El Paso and a little mountain range

1483
01:23:57,240 --> 01:24:00,320
Speaker 1: called the Waco Mountains, which is pretty isolated. We found

1484
01:24:00,360 --> 01:24:02,800
Speaker 1: it there in mule deer. Then we found it up

1485
01:24:03,000 --> 01:24:05,840
Speaker 1: um in the Panhandle, the northern part of our state,

1486
01:24:06,000 --> 01:24:09,760
Speaker 1: very close to the New Mexico line. UM. Again we

1487
01:24:09,800 --> 01:24:12,400
Speaker 1: think with free range animals coming over from New Mexico.

1488
01:24:13,000 --> 01:24:14,840
Speaker 1: But we found it mule deer, we found it in

1489
01:24:14,840 --> 01:24:16,439
Speaker 1: a couple of elk, we found it in a couple

1490
01:24:16,439 --> 01:24:19,840
Speaker 1: of white tail, and then down in Central Texas kind

1491
01:24:19,840 --> 01:24:23,639
Speaker 1: of the heart of some of the most populous deer country. UM,

1492
01:24:23,920 --> 01:24:28,879
Speaker 1: we found chronic wasting disease in four pretty large captive

1493
01:24:28,920 --> 01:24:33,160
Speaker 1: breeding operations and UM. And so we've been working very

1494
01:24:33,280 --> 01:24:36,439
Speaker 1: actively to help deal with that. UM, what are the

1495
01:24:36,479 --> 01:24:41,120
Speaker 1: what are the biggest limitations right now on presumably you

1496
01:24:41,160 --> 01:24:43,960
Speaker 1: can do everything you wish you could do. What's the

1497
01:24:44,040 --> 01:24:47,960
Speaker 1: limitation on from your perspective on on trying to slow

1498
01:24:48,040 --> 01:24:50,800
Speaker 1: it get rid of it? I mean, can you You

1499
01:24:50,840 --> 01:24:52,479
Speaker 1: can't get rid of it? I mean that's what you think, Like,

1500
01:24:52,520 --> 01:24:55,519
Speaker 1: Texas will not go back to being free in CWD. No,

1501
01:24:55,640 --> 01:24:57,280
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't. I don't think we I don't

1502
01:24:57,280 --> 01:24:59,719
Speaker 1: think we will. But that doesn't mean we're complacent about

1503
01:24:59,760 --> 01:25:02,639
Speaker 1: it somehow lay behind the log and say, hey, we've

1504
01:25:02,680 --> 01:25:04,800
Speaker 1: got it in these three isolated areas, so we're not

1505
01:25:04,840 --> 01:25:08,240
Speaker 1: going to worry about it everywhere else. Absolutely to the contrary.

1506
01:25:08,439 --> 01:25:13,360
Speaker 1: So our strategy is focused on three goals. UM. You know, first,

1507
01:25:13,439 --> 01:25:15,960
Speaker 1: we want to minimize the impacts of c w D

1508
01:25:16,560 --> 01:25:20,559
Speaker 1: to all of our dear populations, whether it's free range

1509
01:25:20,600 --> 01:25:24,000
Speaker 1: or captive UM. Secondly, we want to make sure that

1510
01:25:24,080 --> 01:25:29,000
Speaker 1: we minimize the impact from c w D to UM

1511
01:25:29,280 --> 01:25:33,160
Speaker 1: hunting and hunting based economies, and that includes real estate values,

1512
01:25:33,280 --> 01:25:38,080
Speaker 1: rural communities, tourism, hunter expenditures, all that. And then, last,

1513
01:25:38,080 --> 01:25:41,000
Speaker 1: but not least, is we want to make sure that

1514
01:25:41,040 --> 01:25:44,479
Speaker 1: our management actions are done in such a way that

1515
01:25:44,520 --> 01:25:47,559
Speaker 1: we maintain the trust and confidence of our hunters and

1516
01:25:47,600 --> 01:25:51,240
Speaker 1: our private landowners absolutely critical. So those are the three

1517
01:25:51,280 --> 01:25:53,519
Speaker 1: tenants of our efforts. And then from a from a

1518
01:25:53,520 --> 01:25:58,839
Speaker 1: strategy perspective, we're focused on two things. First is early detection,

1519
01:25:59,400 --> 01:26:02,000
Speaker 1: so if it's out there, we want to find it

1520
01:26:02,280 --> 01:26:03,880
Speaker 1: so that all of a sudden, you know, we can

1521
01:26:03,880 --> 01:26:06,799
Speaker 1: get mandatory testing in place, we can get carcass movement

1522
01:26:07,120 --> 01:26:10,840
Speaker 1: restrictions in place, we can get prohibitions on moving live

1523
01:26:10,920 --> 01:26:14,400
Speaker 1: dear into and out of those those those areas in place,

1524
01:26:14,439 --> 01:26:18,519
Speaker 1: so early, so very active. From a surveillance perspective, our

1525
01:26:18,560 --> 01:26:21,800
Speaker 1: biologists are spending a lot of time, you know, collecting

1526
01:26:21,840 --> 01:26:25,840
Speaker 1: brain samples throughout the year, but particularly during hunting season,

1527
01:26:25,840 --> 01:26:29,080
Speaker 1: and we've stratified the state um according to kind of

1528
01:26:29,120 --> 01:26:34,320
Speaker 1: statistical grids to to to sample at levels that gives

1529
01:26:34,439 --> 01:26:37,680
Speaker 1: us you know, varying level of confidence or degrees of

1530
01:26:37,720 --> 01:26:40,400
Speaker 1: confidence that we find it dependent on the sample size.

1531
01:26:40,439 --> 01:26:42,439
Speaker 1: A lot of a lot of effort on the early

1532
01:26:42,479 --> 01:26:46,839
Speaker 1: detection and the sampling, and then it becomes a containment issue.

1533
01:26:47,400 --> 01:26:51,240
Speaker 1: Um um. I'm not aware of any situation um in

1534
01:26:51,360 --> 01:26:54,320
Speaker 1: any kind of a free range environment in which anybody

1535
01:26:54,320 --> 01:26:57,120
Speaker 1: has really gotten rid of it, so it gets it.

1536
01:26:57,160 --> 01:27:00,240
Speaker 1: How do you arrest the spread of it? And the

1537
01:27:00,240 --> 01:27:04,040
Speaker 1: two biggest threats to that, of course, or large aggregations

1538
01:27:04,040 --> 01:27:07,479
Speaker 1: of animals, right, and then the movement of an animal

1539
01:27:07,560 --> 01:27:10,280
Speaker 1: from an infected area to another area. You know, they

1540
01:27:10,320 --> 01:27:14,559
Speaker 1: move on a trailer or whatever, some artificial movement of

1541
01:27:14,560 --> 01:27:17,320
Speaker 1: of of of deer, So you know, working to kind

1542
01:27:17,320 --> 01:27:20,320
Speaker 1: of manage densities in those areas and then also make

1543
01:27:20,360 --> 01:27:23,240
Speaker 1: sure that we don't have movement of deer into route

1544
01:27:23,240 --> 01:27:26,599
Speaker 1: of areas that we know have f c w D. Again,

1545
01:27:27,080 --> 01:27:29,599
Speaker 1: it's a big issue for our our state just because

1546
01:27:29,680 --> 01:27:34,200
Speaker 1: deer hunting, deer management, enjoyment of rural land is so

1547
01:27:34,320 --> 01:27:38,880
Speaker 1: tied to the health and enjoyment of deer populations in

1548
01:27:38,960 --> 01:27:42,360
Speaker 1: our state that we have got to take an aggressive

1549
01:27:42,439 --> 01:27:45,600
Speaker 1: strategy in dealing with it. Thankfully, we have it in

1550
01:27:45,640 --> 01:27:48,000
Speaker 1: three isolated areas and that's how we want to keep it.

1551
01:27:48,320 --> 01:27:51,720
Speaker 1: Do you feel that you've gotten adequate federal support. I'm

1552
01:27:51,720 --> 01:27:54,360
Speaker 1: working with c W That coordination and support are are

1553
01:27:54,400 --> 01:27:55,960
Speaker 1: all the states. It is kind of duking it out

1554
01:27:56,000 --> 01:27:58,080
Speaker 1: on their own well, and I think that's a real

1555
01:27:58,479 --> 01:28:01,920
Speaker 1: issue UM that's out there. You know, historically we had

1556
01:28:02,080 --> 01:28:05,840
Speaker 1: financial support through U. S D a APHIST to help

1557
01:28:06,040 --> 01:28:10,559
Speaker 1: with UM monitoring, UM the surveillance because we're we're spending

1558
01:28:10,880 --> 01:28:14,080
Speaker 1: very very conservatively, you know, let's say a million and

1559
01:28:14,120 --> 01:28:18,560
Speaker 1: a half dollars a year on just the CWD surveillance.

1560
01:28:18,640 --> 01:28:22,320
Speaker 1: Remember that's time that that biologists also could be spending

1561
01:28:22,360 --> 01:28:26,599
Speaker 1: working with landowners on habitat management, wildlife management, you know,

1562
01:28:27,160 --> 01:28:30,760
Speaker 1: working on game non game whatever whatever other priorities that

1563
01:28:30,920 --> 01:28:33,080
Speaker 1: we have out there. So there's a real opportunity cost

1564
01:28:33,120 --> 01:28:36,439
Speaker 1: of time. Historically, we did have some federal funding to

1565
01:28:36,439 --> 01:28:39,479
Speaker 1: to help with that. Now, as I understand it, there

1566
01:28:39,640 --> 01:28:45,599
Speaker 1: is proposed funding this year in the House Appropriations Bill

1567
01:28:46,040 --> 01:28:50,880
Speaker 1: UM for the Department of Agriculture to help ensure that

1568
01:28:50,920 --> 01:28:52,920
Speaker 1: there's going to be some funding made available to the

1569
01:28:52,960 --> 01:28:58,160
Speaker 1: states to help support that that surveillance. That would be helpful. Undoubtedly,

1570
01:28:58,439 --> 01:29:02,760
Speaker 1: there is a need for great or coordination across our

1571
01:29:02,840 --> 01:29:05,200
Speaker 1: country with respect to how do we deal with it.

1572
01:29:05,400 --> 01:29:08,840
Speaker 1: And you know, as I look at that UM, I

1573
01:29:08,880 --> 01:29:11,920
Speaker 1: would say, you know, one, I mean, states have the

1574
01:29:12,080 --> 01:29:17,040
Speaker 1: jurisdictional authority over deer and elk UM largely there's some

1575
01:29:17,120 --> 01:29:20,519
Speaker 1: exceptions to that, but but mostly and we need to

1576
01:29:20,960 --> 01:29:24,200
Speaker 1: respect those jurisdictional boundaries, and states need to be able

1577
01:29:24,200 --> 01:29:26,559
Speaker 1: to choose how to respond to things just depending on

1578
01:29:26,640 --> 01:29:29,599
Speaker 1: what the cultural and political currents are of the state.

1579
01:29:29,640 --> 01:29:31,680
Speaker 1: Those are just realities that we have to deal with

1580
01:29:31,720 --> 01:29:35,000
Speaker 1: in wildlife politics, as you as you said, But we

1581
01:29:35,040 --> 01:29:38,880
Speaker 1: could benefit from, um, from additional federal funding coming to

1582
01:29:38,920 --> 01:29:44,040
Speaker 1: the states to help support adaptive management, more surveillance, etcetera.

1583
01:29:44,479 --> 01:29:48,880
Speaker 1: I think we could also benefit from a more coordinated,

1584
01:29:48,960 --> 01:29:55,559
Speaker 1: comprehensive look at targeted research, particularly testing and evaluating these

1585
01:29:55,560 --> 01:30:00,000
Speaker 1: adaptive management strategies that states are implementing kind of into

1586
01:30:00,040 --> 01:30:03,000
Speaker 1: pendant of one another. But you know, it's not all

1587
01:30:03,120 --> 01:30:06,559
Speaker 1: done in some kind of a rigorous experimental design type

1588
01:30:06,960 --> 01:30:10,080
Speaker 1: type setting. So some targeted research to test that. And

1589
01:30:10,120 --> 01:30:11,960
Speaker 1: it needs to be over time, right, It needs to

1590
01:30:12,000 --> 01:30:15,360
Speaker 1: be longitudinal. You can't just study this kind of an

1591
01:30:15,400 --> 01:30:19,719
Speaker 1: issue for two years traditional master's student and say hey,

1592
01:30:19,760 --> 01:30:22,400
Speaker 1: we're done. You need to commit to that over over

1593
01:30:22,439 --> 01:30:25,920
Speaker 1: a much longer period of time. UM. We also see

1594
01:30:26,000 --> 01:30:31,320
Speaker 1: capacity issues in uh in testing labs for CWD, and

1595
01:30:31,400 --> 01:30:34,880
Speaker 1: so you know we have the Texas A and M

1596
01:30:34,960 --> 01:30:38,719
Speaker 1: the Veterinary Medical Diagnostic Lab does a fabulous job. They're

1597
01:30:38,760 --> 01:30:43,719
Speaker 1: really good partners of ours on UM. They're they're they're

1598
01:30:43,720 --> 01:30:46,920
Speaker 1: testing work as CWD samples, whether that's from you know,

1599
01:30:47,040 --> 01:30:52,080
Speaker 1: free range UH populations or from captive red facilities. They

1600
01:30:52,120 --> 01:30:54,759
Speaker 1: really work hard at that, but the capacity is constrained,

1601
01:30:54,800 --> 01:30:58,200
Speaker 1: so there's a lag in testing those animals. So hunter

1602
01:30:58,280 --> 01:31:01,160
Speaker 1: kills a deer UH, it's in an area in which

1603
01:31:01,160 --> 01:31:04,400
Speaker 1: it's a mandatory testing area, and you know, if they

1604
01:31:04,400 --> 01:31:06,639
Speaker 1: have to wait six weeks for that sample to come

1605
01:31:06,640 --> 01:31:10,360
Speaker 1: back to no fault of of of our lab. It's

1606
01:31:10,400 --> 01:31:13,240
Speaker 1: just a capacity issue. It'd be nice if we could

1607
01:31:13,240 --> 01:31:16,720
Speaker 1: accelerate that with additional capacity. The last thing that I

1608
01:31:16,760 --> 01:31:21,040
Speaker 1: think that could probably get some help on federally UM

1609
01:31:21,200 --> 01:31:24,799
Speaker 1: is work on a more coordinated, consistent message for hunters

1610
01:31:25,360 --> 01:31:29,400
Speaker 1: to help explain c w D, why it is, why

1611
01:31:29,400 --> 01:31:33,280
Speaker 1: it matters, and what they can do to help address it.

1612
01:31:33,640 --> 01:31:37,840
Speaker 1: UM find that there's still a lot of ignorance out

1613
01:31:37,920 --> 01:31:42,240
Speaker 1: there about the disease, a lack of awareness UM hunters

1614
01:31:42,240 --> 01:31:45,120
Speaker 1: that may be unwittingly contributing to the spread of it

1615
01:31:45,160 --> 01:31:50,080
Speaker 1: through the movement of infected carcass parts. So there's just

1616
01:31:50,240 --> 01:31:53,959
Speaker 1: some just distrust and some distrust of of of government.

1617
01:31:55,560 --> 01:31:59,000
Speaker 1: Are people are using it as a sort of proxy

1618
01:31:59,160 --> 01:32:02,080
Speaker 1: our fearmongering, right, I mean, I you know you hear

1619
01:32:02,120 --> 01:32:06,559
Speaker 1: that too. It's it's a fairmongering issue. It's um, you

1620
01:32:06,600 --> 01:32:10,840
Speaker 1: have more dear uh killed by cars than you do

1621
01:32:10,920 --> 01:32:12,880
Speaker 1: by c w D. How many times have you heard

1622
01:32:13,040 --> 01:32:16,200
Speaker 1: that argument? And so it affects such a relatively small

1623
01:32:16,280 --> 01:32:19,240
Speaker 1: number of animals across the country or a particular state

1624
01:32:19,320 --> 01:32:22,479
Speaker 1: in some cases that why are you so concerned about it? Well,

1625
01:32:22,760 --> 01:32:25,839
Speaker 1: you know, it's a brain disease. It's always fatal, fatal.

1626
01:32:26,760 --> 01:32:30,600
Speaker 1: You don't need to comment on this, but it's and

1627
01:32:30,640 --> 01:32:34,080
Speaker 1: maybe I'm even wrong about my assumption, but it would

1628
01:32:34,080 --> 01:32:39,160
Speaker 1: seem that the livestock industry would be very interested in

1629
01:32:39,520 --> 01:32:43,880
Speaker 1: c w D, keenly interested, because we like, as a

1630
01:32:43,960 --> 01:32:46,320
Speaker 1: hunter and a person that eats a hell of dear meat,

1631
01:32:46,439 --> 01:32:52,240
Speaker 1: I'm concerned about the human health considerations. I mean, it

1632
01:32:52,280 --> 01:32:58,719
Speaker 1: would be catastrophic to the cattle industry should that disease

1633
01:32:58,840 --> 01:33:03,040
Speaker 1: jump a species barrier species barrier, and and also we

1634
01:33:03,080 --> 01:33:07,280
Speaker 1: had like the equivalent of mad cow disease, Yeah, BSc

1635
01:33:07,439 --> 01:33:09,960
Speaker 1: type situation. What you know the thing. And again you

1636
01:33:10,000 --> 01:33:11,240
Speaker 1: don't need to you don't need to get into that.

1637
01:33:11,280 --> 01:33:13,439
Speaker 1: But it's something I puzzle over that that you just

1638
01:33:13,479 --> 01:33:15,320
Speaker 1: don't hear. Maybe and maybe it's out there and I'm

1639
01:33:15,320 --> 01:33:18,400
Speaker 1: not privy to it. You just don't. You don't hear

1640
01:33:18,439 --> 01:33:21,360
Speaker 1: that industry talk about, Wow, what is this. Let's get

1641
01:33:21,360 --> 01:33:24,280
Speaker 1: a grip on this. We do in Texas. Yeah, Texas

1642
01:33:24,280 --> 01:33:28,360
Speaker 1: and Southwestern cattle raisers UM. You know, their members are

1643
01:33:28,880 --> 01:33:31,559
Speaker 1: terrific partners with the department. Many of them are very

1644
01:33:31,600 --> 01:33:35,120
Speaker 1: actively involved in wildlife management on their ranches. And you know,

1645
01:33:35,240 --> 01:33:37,640
Speaker 1: dear is the proverbial, you know, goose that lay the

1646
01:33:37,640 --> 01:33:41,439
Speaker 1: golden egg, um. And so they're actively involved, very knowledgeable

1647
01:33:41,479 --> 01:33:45,679
Speaker 1: about this, and they do compare the very strict testing

1648
01:33:45,760 --> 01:33:51,519
Speaker 1: requirements and food safety protocols on on livestock and meat

1649
01:33:51,840 --> 01:33:55,960
Speaker 1: um and meat related products. Because of that public safety

1650
01:33:56,080 --> 01:33:59,400
Speaker 1: and the making sure that the consumers are comfortable with

1651
01:33:59,520 --> 01:34:01,679
Speaker 1: the safety of the meat that they're eating, very very

1652
01:34:01,720 --> 01:34:05,280
Speaker 1: focused on that from a market perspective. So they absolutely

1653
01:34:05,320 --> 01:34:09,559
Speaker 1: make that parallel in terms of advocating for you know,

1654
01:34:09,680 --> 01:34:13,040
Speaker 1: more testing and appropriate testing in deer populations. You know,

1655
01:34:13,120 --> 01:34:16,040
Speaker 1: if c w D is indeed a problem. So yeah,

1656
01:34:16,080 --> 01:34:20,519
Speaker 1: you'd be um surprised at the awareness or linkage. Perhaps

1657
01:34:20,560 --> 01:34:23,840
Speaker 1: it's not verbalized as much, or perhaps it's not talked

1658
01:34:23,880 --> 01:34:26,400
Speaker 1: about as much and in all states, but certainly the

1659
01:34:26,439 --> 01:34:30,200
Speaker 1: cattle raisers in Texas have been very very strong partners

1660
01:34:30,240 --> 01:34:33,280
Speaker 1: with us and our efforts to help raise awareness UM

1661
01:34:33,400 --> 01:34:37,880
Speaker 1: and deal with this this this issue in Texas. So, uh,

1662
01:34:38,160 --> 01:34:41,880
Speaker 1: last thing for you, what are the biggest challenges and

1663
01:34:41,920 --> 01:34:44,880
Speaker 1: opportunities you see in your position? And I'm guessing that

1664
01:34:44,880 --> 01:34:49,200
Speaker 1: you probably put c w D among the biggest. Third Well,

1665
01:34:49,240 --> 01:34:50,760
Speaker 1: I mean, I think you know c w D is

1666
01:34:50,760 --> 01:34:55,559
Speaker 1: one of those um emerging wildlife related challenges. You know

1667
01:34:55,880 --> 01:34:59,720
Speaker 1: that that that transcends boundaries that you think about all

1668
01:34:59,760 --> 01:35:03,240
Speaker 1: these different vectors and portals and areas of commerce into

1669
01:35:03,720 --> 01:35:06,840
Speaker 1: into Texas, and so you know, whether it's you know,

1670
01:35:06,880 --> 01:35:09,640
Speaker 1: white nose syndrome and bass or c w D in

1671
01:35:09,840 --> 01:35:13,360
Speaker 1: in deer, some rare fungal disease and amphibians, or the

1672
01:35:13,400 --> 01:35:17,720
Speaker 1: introduction of you know, exotic and invasive plants that proliferate

1673
01:35:17,720 --> 01:35:20,880
Speaker 1: and take over our legs like a bad Alfred Hitchcock movie.

1674
01:35:21,320 --> 01:35:25,479
Speaker 1: You know, those issues, those are those are real and

1675
01:35:25,520 --> 01:35:27,800
Speaker 1: I you know, we take a lot of pride in

1676
01:35:27,920 --> 01:35:31,680
Speaker 1: our native plant and animal communities. I mean we we

1677
01:35:31,680 --> 01:35:33,920
Speaker 1: we want to keep it that way, that that that

1678
01:35:34,080 --> 01:35:39,040
Speaker 1: native wildlife heritage, that outdoor heritage, that diversity habitats that

1679
01:35:39,080 --> 01:35:42,080
Speaker 1: we talked about, We want to keep those native and healthy.

1680
01:35:42,680 --> 01:35:45,040
Speaker 1: Um And so there are challenges for us, and so

1681
01:35:45,120 --> 01:35:47,080
Speaker 1: I don't want to play let's pretend. I mean we've

1682
01:35:47,080 --> 01:35:51,080
Speaker 1: got a big, growing state, twenty eight million people and growing,

1683
01:35:51,160 --> 01:35:53,960
Speaker 1: most of them very detached from the kind of things

1684
01:35:54,000 --> 01:35:59,320
Speaker 1: that we love. That in and of its yeah yeah. Now, Now, interestingly,

1685
01:36:00,280 --> 01:36:05,120
Speaker 1: I think that most attitudinal surveys that irrespective of whether

1686
01:36:05,240 --> 01:36:08,759
Speaker 1: or not somebody is urban or rural, old or young,

1687
01:36:09,200 --> 01:36:13,960
Speaker 1: doesn't matter. What the demographic stratify er is that today

1688
01:36:14,439 --> 01:36:20,200
Speaker 1: people still have some kind of desire to see wildlife

1689
01:36:20,240 --> 01:36:25,640
Speaker 1: conserved and protected. You know, there's still there's still positive sentiments.

1690
01:36:26,080 --> 01:36:29,559
Speaker 1: I think what we all worry about and appropriately is

1691
01:36:29,720 --> 01:36:33,519
Speaker 1: that increasing generational detachment. And what does that mean? Will

1692
01:36:33,560 --> 01:36:37,200
Speaker 1: that attenuate, will it subside, will it go away? What

1693
01:36:37,280 --> 01:36:40,280
Speaker 1: does that mean for the future of you know, hunting

1694
01:36:40,320 --> 01:36:43,840
Speaker 1: and angling and and and responsible and ethical fisheries and

1695
01:36:43,880 --> 01:36:47,320
Speaker 1: wildlife management. Will we have the support from a populace

1696
01:36:47,439 --> 01:36:50,280
Speaker 1: that you know doesn't hunt and fish and so therefore

1697
01:36:50,360 --> 01:36:52,960
Speaker 1: doesn't you know, pay into the pay into the system.

1698
01:36:53,040 --> 01:36:56,160
Speaker 1: Will they see the benefits of of that. So that

1699
01:36:56,240 --> 01:37:01,960
Speaker 1: population issue, competition for what a course, is big fragmentation

1700
01:37:02,040 --> 01:37:05,120
Speaker 1: of ranches. You know, it's harder to keep family ranches

1701
01:37:05,200 --> 01:37:07,479
Speaker 1: together for all kinds of reasons. So we see them

1702
01:37:07,520 --> 01:37:11,240
Speaker 1: getting smaller and more fragmented, and that inevitably leads to

1703
01:37:11,240 --> 01:37:14,960
Speaker 1: habitat loss, and that leads to habitat loss. So UM,

1704
01:37:15,000 --> 01:37:18,400
Speaker 1: there there are no shortage of challenges. Uh. You know,

1705
01:37:18,479 --> 01:37:21,400
Speaker 1: we could we could write war and peace uh on

1706
01:37:21,600 --> 01:37:25,400
Speaker 1: that particular topic. All of those are opportunities as well.

1707
01:37:25,760 --> 01:37:28,559
Speaker 1: You know, how do we better connect with UM an

1708
01:37:28,680 --> 01:37:32,720
Speaker 1: urban based audience, that is that is detached from the outdoors.

1709
01:37:32,720 --> 01:37:35,720
Speaker 1: How do we use technology not as our enemy but

1710
01:37:36,080 --> 01:37:39,520
Speaker 1: UM as our portal to connect people to the outdoors

1711
01:37:39,560 --> 01:37:42,439
Speaker 1: and get them interested to come to places. How do

1712
01:37:42,520 --> 01:37:46,840
Speaker 1: we invest in more you know, parks in public areas

1713
01:37:46,880 --> 01:37:49,280
Speaker 1: that are close to where people are so that they

1714
01:37:49,280 --> 01:37:54,240
Speaker 1: have easy access. How do we create more mentor programs UM?

1715
01:37:54,320 --> 01:37:57,320
Speaker 1: How do we how do we help shape educational programs

1716
01:37:57,320 --> 01:37:59,720
Speaker 1: in the schools through all ages to make sure that

1717
01:37:59,760 --> 01:38:05,759
Speaker 1: people we're getting a proper grounding in natural resources related literacy. Um,

1718
01:38:05,840 --> 01:38:08,040
Speaker 1: you know, speaks to kind of this our three effort

1719
01:38:08,080 --> 01:38:12,160
Speaker 1: that's going on nationally where um, you know, I think

1720
01:38:12,200 --> 01:38:14,800
Speaker 1: for for the fishing side of thing, we've got a

1721
01:38:14,840 --> 01:38:18,400
Speaker 1: real opportunity to move to move the needle. Um, certainly

1722
01:38:18,400 --> 01:38:21,479
Speaker 1: getting people into the outdoors to enjoy wildlife. Maybe they're

1723
01:38:21,520 --> 01:38:23,600
Speaker 1: not going to be hunters, but we want them to

1724
01:38:23,680 --> 01:38:26,280
Speaker 1: appreciate hunters. We want them to appreciate hunting. We want

1725
01:38:26,280 --> 01:38:29,960
Speaker 1: them to appreciate wildlife management, understand the science behind it,

1726
01:38:30,040 --> 01:38:33,080
Speaker 1: the reasons behind it, and and and why that can

1727
01:38:33,120 --> 01:38:35,759
Speaker 1: help all of the species of interest that we're charged

1728
01:38:35,800 --> 01:38:39,360
Speaker 1: with with managing. So um, the challenges again are our

1729
01:38:39,439 --> 01:38:42,599
Speaker 1: opportunities is as as as well. And I think what's

1730
01:38:42,640 --> 01:38:46,120
Speaker 1: the the overriding concern for all of us, irrespective where

1731
01:38:46,160 --> 01:38:48,439
Speaker 1: we are, is trying to leave our home ground better

1732
01:38:48,439 --> 01:38:52,360
Speaker 1: than we found it. Our buddy dug during on where

1733
01:38:52,400 --> 01:38:55,080
Speaker 1: you stole it? But maybe he made it up. No,

1734
01:38:55,280 --> 01:39:00,880
Speaker 1: he stole it. It's not ours, it's our turn, our turn. Yeah, yeah,

1735
01:39:00,920 --> 01:39:04,519
Speaker 1: do you got the last final thoughts? No? I mean

1736
01:39:04,720 --> 01:39:08,160
Speaker 1: we've covered the waterfront. Uh, pretty well, there's nothing you

1737
01:39:08,160 --> 01:39:12,559
Speaker 1: were dying to get wedge in there. No, gosh, we

1738
01:39:12,720 --> 01:39:15,840
Speaker 1: have we've I'm trying to think if there's anything we

1739
01:39:15,880 --> 01:39:18,400
Speaker 1: didn't cover that, let me let me hear my concluder

1740
01:39:18,600 --> 01:39:19,880
Speaker 1: and you can do one if you've got one, and

1741
01:39:19,880 --> 01:39:22,839
Speaker 1: you honest is gonna go. I mentioned Shane Mahoney earlier

1742
01:39:23,120 --> 01:39:27,640
Speaker 1: in the same conversation where we talked about the uh,

1743
01:39:27,800 --> 01:39:31,960
Speaker 1: the model, you know, complex model. Uh. He was talking

1744
01:39:31,960 --> 01:39:33,479
Speaker 1: about the same thing he just brought up. Was funny

1745
01:39:33,560 --> 01:39:39,679
Speaker 1: you mentioned technology in in people's engagement with the natural world,

1746
01:39:40,360 --> 01:39:43,000
Speaker 1: and he made a point that you're saying guys like

1747
01:39:43,080 --> 01:39:45,360
Speaker 1: him and his generation, It's true. I'm forty five and

1748
01:39:45,400 --> 01:39:47,559
Speaker 1: this is the same thing with me. We grew up

1749
01:39:47,560 --> 01:39:50,840
Speaker 1: in a world the like doesn't exist, and he like

1750
01:39:50,920 --> 01:39:53,400
Speaker 1: talks about you know, riding off on your bike with

1751
01:39:53,439 --> 01:39:58,439
Speaker 1: your twenty two right doesn't happened, And it's like is

1752
01:39:58,479 --> 01:40:00,920
Speaker 1: he says, so many people in and his age and

1753
01:40:00,960 --> 01:40:04,599
Speaker 1: again and include myself in it, are thinking like for

1754
01:40:04,600 --> 01:40:06,920
Speaker 1: for people to engage in the natural world, we need

1755
01:40:06,960 --> 01:40:10,960
Speaker 1: to recapture and deliver to them this child, this like

1756
01:40:11,040 --> 01:40:14,000
Speaker 1: idyllic childhood that we had growing up out in the

1757
01:40:14,120 --> 01:40:17,200
Speaker 1: rural parts of America where you took off in the

1758
01:40:17,240 --> 01:40:19,960
Speaker 1: morning with your twenty two fish and rod and came

1759
01:40:19,960 --> 01:40:23,639
Speaker 1: home after dark. And he's like, that's the mind frame

1760
01:40:23,840 --> 01:40:28,040
Speaker 1: and how we're going to re engage people with nature. Um,

1761
01:40:28,080 --> 01:40:31,320
Speaker 1: and the technology is bad and he says, like, that

1762
01:40:31,400 --> 01:40:35,280
Speaker 1: approach is not going to work. We are not going

1763
01:40:35,320 --> 01:40:38,840
Speaker 1: to we are not going to bring that back and

1764
01:40:38,880 --> 01:40:44,240
Speaker 1: make that a scalable model for wildlife engagement. And you're

1765
01:40:44,280 --> 01:40:48,719
Speaker 1: gonna have to find a way two make the natural world,

1766
01:40:48,840 --> 01:40:51,759
Speaker 1: make nature relevant in the way that people can understand,

1767
01:40:51,800 --> 01:40:54,280
Speaker 1: and they're going to relate to how they do. And

1768
01:40:54,320 --> 01:40:56,160
Speaker 1: he says that and I feel that that will happen.

1769
01:40:56,720 --> 01:41:00,040
Speaker 1: And technology, if it's going to happen, technology and a

1770
01:41:00,080 --> 01:41:02,760
Speaker 1: bracing of technology will be part of that. Amen. You

1771
01:41:02,760 --> 01:41:04,559
Speaker 1: will not get payment that, you will not get people

1772
01:41:04,560 --> 01:41:07,200
Speaker 1: to leave it behind. I couldn't agree more with that approach.

1773
01:41:07,240 --> 01:41:10,880
Speaker 1: It's a the the the other is just so wildly

1774
01:41:11,760 --> 01:41:14,680
Speaker 1: uh idealistic. Will never go back to that. There are

1775
01:41:14,680 --> 01:41:17,920
Speaker 1: people who pull it off. Um. You know, very local

1776
01:41:19,640 --> 01:41:22,360
Speaker 1: if in national terms, when we talk about like an

1777
01:41:22,600 --> 01:41:25,280
Speaker 1: increasingly urbanizing where we live, it's like if we're if

1778
01:41:25,280 --> 01:41:28,040
Speaker 1: we're gonna make it this binary thing. You have to

1779
01:41:28,080 --> 01:41:30,120
Speaker 1: love nature and hate technology, and that's the only way

1780
01:41:30,160 --> 01:41:33,639
Speaker 1: we're gonna win. You'll never win that, you know that

1781
01:41:33,640 --> 01:41:35,800
Speaker 1: that that if if that was a battle, which I

1782
01:41:35,880 --> 01:41:38,360
Speaker 1: don't think it it ever was, by the way, although

1783
01:41:38,439 --> 01:41:41,000
Speaker 1: people love to frame that, and a lot of it

1784
01:41:41,080 --> 01:41:45,040
Speaker 1: had to do with people extrapolating, making their own inferences

1785
01:41:45,200 --> 01:41:47,680
Speaker 1: from you know, some of the findings that drove the

1786
01:41:47,720 --> 01:41:51,880
Speaker 1: whole uh, you know, last Child in the Woods movement,

1787
01:41:51,920 --> 01:41:54,400
Speaker 1: Children to nature related movement. But I think most folks

1788
01:41:54,439 --> 01:41:57,120
Speaker 1: who are given this issue any real thought have come

1789
01:41:57,160 --> 01:42:00,800
Speaker 1: to the same conclusion is technology is here, it's here

1790
01:42:00,840 --> 01:42:04,280
Speaker 1: to stay, it's growing, and it's increasing part uh you

1791
01:42:05,439 --> 01:42:07,880
Speaker 1: and you can't make kids choose. So meet them where

1792
01:42:07,880 --> 01:42:10,479
Speaker 1: they're at and let them experience. It's like taking my

1793
01:42:10,600 --> 01:42:14,920
Speaker 1: I've got some young cousins that are you know, eleven, twelve, thirteen,

1794
01:42:15,680 --> 01:42:18,960
Speaker 1: and yeah, I'm kind of mildly annoyed by the fact

1795
01:42:19,000 --> 01:42:22,240
Speaker 1: that you know, we're sitting out there, um, you know,

1796
01:42:22,320 --> 01:42:24,479
Speaker 1: in a ground, blind or something, and you know they

1797
01:42:24,520 --> 01:42:28,360
Speaker 1: want to post everything on Snapchat and Instagram and tell

1798
01:42:28,439 --> 01:42:32,320
Speaker 1: the story, you know, electronically and their smartphones are going

1799
01:42:32,479 --> 01:42:34,519
Speaker 1: ninety to nothing. But you know what, they seem to

1800
01:42:34,560 --> 01:42:37,680
Speaker 1: have a ball. So who is it of me to

1801
01:42:37,760 --> 01:42:39,479
Speaker 1: tell them? No, I want you to enjoy it my way.

1802
01:42:39,560 --> 01:42:42,400
Speaker 1: You can't do it your one. You gotta enjoy my mood.

1803
01:42:42,479 --> 01:42:46,960
Speaker 1: I say all that stuff. Yeah, well, I just don't

1804
01:42:46,960 --> 01:42:49,719
Speaker 1: think it worked. I'll leave you with this story. Fifteen

1805
01:42:49,800 --> 01:42:51,960
Speaker 1: years ago, I got a buddy that UM the mind

1806
01:42:52,040 --> 01:42:55,759
Speaker 1: that UM ranches out in far West Texas, sprawling ranch.

1807
01:42:55,840 --> 01:42:59,400
Speaker 1: Gets left alone by his his wife UM with his

1808
01:42:59,520 --> 01:43:04,479
Speaker 1: two young daughters, and UM, I think they were four

1809
01:43:04,520 --> 01:43:08,479
Speaker 1: and five. She leaves to UM, going to town to

1810
01:43:08,680 --> 01:43:11,200
Speaker 1: see parents or something for the for the weekend, and

1811
01:43:11,240 --> 01:43:15,040
Speaker 1: so he's doing parent duty at the ranch. He said.

1812
01:43:15,080 --> 01:43:19,920
Speaker 1: He watched his two daughters UM one afternoon spend their

1813
01:43:20,160 --> 01:43:23,840
Speaker 1: entire afternoon within about a five ft radius of a

1814
01:43:23,840 --> 01:43:27,759
Speaker 1: big oak tree in their front yard, and it dawned

1815
01:43:27,800 --> 01:43:31,880
Speaker 1: on him at the time that hey, you don't need

1816
01:43:32,320 --> 01:43:35,559
Speaker 1: to take people to some big wilderness area. Yeah, we'd

1817
01:43:35,560 --> 01:43:38,799
Speaker 1: all love to know that they're there, UM, but people

1818
01:43:38,840 --> 01:43:42,519
Speaker 1: can find nature anywhere. They can find it at an

1819
01:43:42,600 --> 01:43:48,040
Speaker 1: undeveloped city block, a lot, a park, a little green belt,

1820
01:43:48,680 --> 01:43:52,240
Speaker 1: you know, sitting under a tree looking at your office

1821
01:43:52,280 --> 01:43:55,280
Speaker 1: building and there's a paragon falcon, you know, praying on

1822
01:43:55,320 --> 01:43:59,240
Speaker 1: a pigeon, you know, in downtown Chicago. UM, it's not

1823
01:43:59,360 --> 01:44:03,280
Speaker 1: that we don't to get people out into these wild places.

1824
01:44:03,520 --> 01:44:07,479
Speaker 1: We do, but let's help them discover nature in the

1825
01:44:07,560 --> 01:44:10,400
Speaker 1: outdoors where they are. And I thought it was interesting

1826
01:44:11,360 --> 01:44:15,600
Speaker 1: for that friend to have that revelation about, you know,

1827
01:44:15,680 --> 01:44:19,160
Speaker 1: the population as a whole, from watching his two ranch

1828
01:44:19,280 --> 01:44:23,400
Speaker 1: raised girls on a big, sprawling ranch, because of their

1829
01:44:23,439 --> 01:44:27,040
Speaker 1: interaction with one tree in their front yard and how

1830
01:44:27,520 --> 01:44:31,400
Speaker 1: just connected they were. That thing's pretty cool. Yeah. I

1831
01:44:31,439 --> 01:44:33,880
Speaker 1: had an interview recently, asked you like, where's the best

1832
01:44:33,880 --> 01:44:35,559
Speaker 1: place to hunt deer? I said, it's close to your

1833
01:44:35,560 --> 01:44:41,400
Speaker 1: house as possible. Yeah, yeah, no doubt, no doubt. I

1834
01:44:41,439 --> 01:44:44,000
Speaker 1: know we're short on time. I'll leave it at this.

1835
01:44:44,240 --> 01:44:46,959
Speaker 1: That was a good story to finish on. Good Thank

1836
01:44:46,960 --> 01:44:48,920
Speaker 1: you very much for joining us. Thanks. I'm sure you're

1837
01:44:49,080 --> 01:44:51,880
Speaker 1: extremely busy, so thanks for giving us so much times

1838
01:44:51,880 --> 01:45:16,519
Speaker 1: allowed to be here. Thank you for having all right.

1839
01:45:17,160 --> 01:45:19,840
Speaker 1: Tell him John starting the sky film dot com man,

1840
01:45:19,960 --> 01:45:24,000
Speaker 1: Tell him, Yeah, you guys need to uh go over

1841
01:45:24,120 --> 01:45:28,280
Speaker 1: two stars in the sky film dot Com and buy

1842
01:45:28,720 --> 01:45:30,479
Speaker 1: a copy of it, and I was just thinking that

1843
01:45:30,520 --> 01:45:33,320
Speaker 1: you ought to buy a second copy to give. I

1844
01:45:33,360 --> 01:45:35,000
Speaker 1: don't know how that works. You can get a link

1845
01:45:35,439 --> 01:45:37,160
Speaker 1: and you can give it to somebody, but you should

1846
01:45:37,160 --> 01:45:40,599
Speaker 1: buy it for a non hunter who's uneasy with hunt

1847
01:45:40,720 --> 01:45:43,880
Speaker 1: That's right, because this is it's a very good, uh

1848
01:45:44,439 --> 01:45:48,200
Speaker 1: deep dive into hunting. Explores all the different realms of

1849
01:45:48,280 --> 01:45:50,320
Speaker 1: hunting that we all know so well and they're so

1850
01:45:50,400 --> 01:45:54,240
Speaker 1: easy for us to talk about and understand. But uh,

1851
01:45:54,400 --> 01:45:56,960
Speaker 1: Steve does a really good job in the documentary of

1852
01:45:58,560 --> 01:46:03,120
Speaker 1: sort of you know, opening it up to and in

1853
01:46:03,200 --> 01:46:07,040
Speaker 1: a conversation where people that are non endemic outside of

1854
01:46:07,080 --> 01:46:10,280
Speaker 1: our little hunting bubble can understand all these topics that

1855
01:46:10,320 --> 01:46:14,439
Speaker 1: we deal with and grapple with all the time. Um,

1856
01:46:14,479 --> 01:46:16,280
Speaker 1: you'll enjoy it. But I also feel like if you're

1857
01:46:16,280 --> 01:46:19,679
Speaker 1: somebody that wants to promote hunting and make hunting cool again,

1858
01:46:20,240 --> 01:46:22,840
Speaker 1: you should pass it along to some folks. Yeah, you're

1859
01:46:22,840 --> 01:46:26,280
Speaker 1: only worked on the movie. Yeah, have a good time

1860
01:46:26,320 --> 01:46:28,960
Speaker 1: working on it. And your honest is the he's the

1861
01:46:29,000 --> 01:46:32,240
Speaker 1: most honest man in show business and he's sounds you

1862
01:46:32,280 --> 01:46:34,439
Speaker 1: go watching. Yeah, I know I know for a fact.

1863
01:46:35,320 --> 01:46:40,559
Speaker 1: Thank you guys. Stars in the sky film dot com

1864
01:46:40,680 --> 01:46:45,559
Speaker 1: where you can find our new documentary UM available for

1865
01:46:45,680 --> 01:46:48,439
Speaker 1: streaming and download purchase