Speaker 1: The Volume.
Speaker 2: All right, welcome to Hoops tonight here at the Volume.
Speaker 2: Happy Tuesday, everybody. We have a very special guest, mister
Speaker 2: Mark Titus from over at Barstool Sports. We actually talked
Speaker 2: for a little while just before the NBA Finals, and
Speaker 2: I had a blast talking hoops with Mark. We hit
Speaker 2: a bunch of stuff that was kind of ancillary topics
Speaker 2: about the NBA that I liked getting into, and so
Speaker 2: I've got a couple of fun ideas for that. But
Speaker 2: we're also going to be hitting some of the draft
Speaker 2: picks at the top. Mark as someone who covers college
Speaker 2: basketball very closely, which is something we just simply do
Speaker 2: not do on this show. So he's got a better
Speaker 2: feel for these guys than I could ever hope to,
Speaker 2: and we're gonna pick his brain a little bit as well.
Speaker 2: You guys know the drip before we get started. Subscribe
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Speaker 2: mister Mark Titus. So for starters, we ended up being
Speaker 2: pretty right about the NBA Finals. There, didn't we.
Speaker 1: We were right. We were right, Jason. Let's let's clap
Speaker 1: it up for us for getting there were the only
Speaker 1: two people in the world that said the Nuggets were
Speaker 1: much better than the Heat. I'll be Dawn, we were right.
Speaker 2: So, uh, with the NBA Draft, and let's just start
Speaker 2: here actually because I find this super interesting. So if
Speaker 2: my if my knowledge of the situation is correct, four
Speaker 2: of the top five players went a route that avoided
Speaker 2: the NCAA to get there. Obviously Victor a traditional European prospect.
Speaker 2: But as you go down the list between Scoot Henderson
Speaker 2: going through G League ig Night and then uh, the
Speaker 2: Thompson Twins going which I'm not even which route did
Speaker 2: they go?
Speaker 1: Text overtime it's overtime elite. Yeah, and this is confusing
Speaker 1: for college people as well. It's we're not entirely sure
Speaker 1: what overtime elite is. I don't know if the Thompson
Speaker 1: Twins are entirely sure of what overtime a lead is.
Speaker 1: I don't know if over the overtime people are entirely
Speaker 1: sure what it is. But as far as I know,
Speaker 1: my consumption of overtime elite content exists just on Instagram
Speaker 1: that like they'll I'll see like a clip from like
Speaker 1: something that's called over time. It feels like, dude perfect,
Speaker 1: kind of like they just have like a factory where
Speaker 1: they play basketball and then put out clips or something.
Speaker 1: And I'm I don't know, but the Thompson Twins seem
Speaker 1: very good and I'm excited to see them playing in
Speaker 1: the NBA. But uh, the scouting on these guys is
Speaker 1: hilarious because I don't know how you watch them, I
Speaker 1: don't know where.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, and the and the competition, like who else
Speaker 2: is going that specific route? It almost like takes on
Speaker 2: a weird vibe, you know how, like when you're watching
Speaker 2: European prospects and you're like, oh, he's playing in like
Speaker 2: a church gym, Like what's going on here? Like there's
Speaker 2: like this weird court and like everything about it feels
Speaker 2: very produced. But for the Thompson twins though, because like
Speaker 2: they they are both of them are just disgusting athletes, right,
Speaker 2: just ridiculous row prospects and probably was the best route
Speaker 2: for them to go, honestly from the standpoint of marketing.
Speaker 1: Right. And but but to your point, like it is,
Speaker 1: you introduced me as the college basketball guy and That's
Speaker 1: why we had him on to talk about the NBA Draft.
Speaker 1: But I feel like his time is going to go on.
Speaker 1: My value is a college basketball guy with the NBA
Speaker 1: Draft is going to wane immensely because I feel like
Speaker 1: you're better student to have an Overtime Elite or a
Speaker 1: Metropolitan's ninety two or a Gelliague Ignite expert to talk
Speaker 1: about this draft, because yeah, it is for the people
Speaker 1: in my life that follow college basketball closely. This No,
Speaker 1: it wasn't a surprise because I think going to the
Speaker 1: draft like this is the way the draft shook out
Speaker 1: is what people expected, not just like leading up to
Speaker 1: the draft, but like I mean months and months and
Speaker 1: months ago. Obviously Victor Winbinon was gonna go number one
Speaker 1: for a very long time. But the college basketball fans
Speaker 1: of my life were definitely like scratching their head, thinking, damn,
Speaker 1: times have changed, you know, like were to we're used to,
Speaker 1: especially a guy like me growing up in the nineties,
Speaker 1: you would watch college basketball. The draft would come around,
Speaker 1: and generally the five All Americans, the five first team
Speaker 1: All Americans. You would see them pick like in the
Speaker 1: first at least fifteen picks, probably twenty picks like it
Speaker 1: was just kind of how it worked. And to have
Speaker 1: a guy like I wasbey who I'm I don't even
Speaker 1: know if you know who Oscar Way is, I don't
Speaker 1: know Oscar Sway. Like, that's that's where we're at now
Speaker 1: with college basketball NBA relationship is that Oscar swey uh
Speaker 1: not this past season, but two seasons ago was the
Speaker 1: National Player of the Year at Kentucky. This was not
Speaker 1: a man who was playing at a tiny school on
Speaker 1: the West coast. This was not a man who you
Speaker 1: know was was was not in the public eye. He
Speaker 1: was very He was at one of the biggest brands,
Speaker 1: if not the biggest brand in college basketball, won the
Speaker 1: National Player of the Year award, goes undrafted, and nobody
Speaker 1: even really seems to care or notice or anything else.
Speaker 1: That's crazy. It's crazy because up until two thousand and four,
Speaker 1: Jamier Nelson was the first guy who was National Player
Speaker 1: of the Year in college basketball to not go in
Speaker 1: the top ten Jason. So not only do guys like
Speaker 1: not only was winning National Player of the Year, I
Speaker 1: guarantee to get drafted. Up until two thousand and four,
Speaker 1: every single guy that won National Player there in college
Speaker 1: basketball went in the top ten and now in less
Speaker 1: than a twenty year span from Jamiir Nelson going I
Speaker 1: think he went like twenty that year and O.
Speaker 3: Four and he ended up being awesome by the way.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and he was good. And then Frank Mason was
Speaker 1: the first guy a few years ago, five years ago,
Speaker 1: I want to say that, Yeah, Frank goes in the
Speaker 1: second round, and that was kind of like a paradigm
Speaker 1: shift where you're like, whoa, this is crazy national player
Speaker 1: here in the second round. And it's just the way
Speaker 1: it's moved so quickly to where now you're you have
Speaker 1: National Players of the Year. Zach Edie won it Purdue
Speaker 1: this year. He was a national player. It put his
Speaker 1: name in the draft. The feedback he got was basically like,
Speaker 1: you're not guaranteed first round. So he's back at Purdue,
Speaker 1: and I guess that's just where we're at with like
Speaker 1: the relationship, because it's so uh, it's it's it's frankly
Speaker 1: just foreign to me because that's how I grew up
Speaker 1: consuming basketball. I was like, yeah, if you're one of
Speaker 1: the best players in college, you might not be the
Speaker 1: number one overall pick, but like your game is going
Speaker 1: to translate and now I don't know if it's if
Speaker 1: it's representative of the the split that's kind of happened
Speaker 1: where it's two different sports, or if it's more that,
Speaker 1: like NBA, people are a little smarter about what they
Speaker 1: want from players versus just trusting it. If you put
Speaker 1: up big numbers in college, you're probably going to be
Speaker 1: good in the NBA. I don't know what's more to blame,
Speaker 1: if blame is the right word, but yeah, it's wild.
Speaker 1: It's wild to watch the draft as a college basketball
Speaker 1: fan'll put it that way.
Speaker 2: Well, and maybe it has something to do with the
Speaker 2: fact that a lot of the top end prospects just
Speaker 2: not even playing at that level and so the overall
Speaker 2: level of competition freaking them out a little bit. So
Speaker 2: really quickly, before we move on to Brandon Miller, do
Speaker 2: you think this is a trend? Like, do you think
Speaker 2: this is what it's going to look like in the
Speaker 2: top of lottery moving forward? Do you think this was
Speaker 2: kind of an anomaly? I?
Speaker 1: Well, I think name image likeness stuff with college basketball
Speaker 1: is gonna I think some of the talent that goes
Speaker 1: pro might be more interested now in going college because
Speaker 1: he can make some substantial money going to college route.
Speaker 1: But no, I do think that that it's never going
Speaker 1: to go back to the way it was, And I
Speaker 1: do think that kind of what I was speaking about earlier,
Speaker 1: like the guys who are dominant in college, I don't
Speaker 1: think you're going to be. The scouting of the stuff
Speaker 1: isn't as simple as like, let's take the first team
Speaker 1: All Americans. So I don't think. I don't think we're
Speaker 1: going to go back to that, because I do think that, uh,
Speaker 1: the sports are drastically different with how they're played, and
Speaker 1: I think that that's going to continue. I mean, there
Speaker 1: there is some sort of push at the college level
Speaker 1: from a small faction of people to to make it
Speaker 1: more like the NBA. But I think if you talk
Speaker 1: to the people that live and breathe college basketball, we
Speaker 1: want college basketball to be different the NBA, because if
Speaker 1: you if you turn college basketball into the NBA and
Speaker 1: you widen the lane and you LinkedIn the three point
Speaker 1: line and you shorten the shot, then what's the point
Speaker 1: of watching college basketball? At that point? You're like, why
Speaker 1: would I watch this when the diversion of you know,
Speaker 1: so the oddities of that sport are what draws people
Speaker 1: to it. But with that, I think the people that
Speaker 1: succeed at college basketball are necessarily going to be the
Speaker 1: guys at the NBA wants, and I think that is
Speaker 1: here to say. I think the idea of like the
Speaker 1: guys winning National Player of the Year going undrafted, I
Speaker 1: think that's going to be more normal. But asking like
Speaker 1: our our g leagnite and overtime elite, are we going
Speaker 1: to see more of that? I think that this was
Speaker 1: probably anomaly because I think I think like the Scoot
Speaker 1: Hinder since the world are now going to start getting
Speaker 1: offers for like five hundred thousand dollars to play it,
Speaker 1: you know in Kansas per year, and I think I
Speaker 1: think he's going to look at that and be like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I could go I could go to I could go
Speaker 1: play college basketball for one year.
Speaker 2: So that's the why that makes sense to me. That
Speaker 2: makes sense to me. It seems like, yeah, like there's
Speaker 2: just too much money going around. I mean we're seeing guys,
Speaker 2: who's the kid that from Michigan that like transferred right
Speaker 2: before his final season, Like I like that. I think
Speaker 2: we're going to see a lot of that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2: And to your point about changing the rules, like I'm
Speaker 2: one hundred percent with you. Like, the level of play
Speaker 2: is not great at that level, So if you want
Speaker 2: to make it look exactly like the NBA, it's just
Speaker 2: going to be a bad television product because the players
Speaker 2: aren't as good. It's got to have a unique kind
Speaker 2: of like it's got to have a unique kind of
Speaker 2: traditional feel to it in order for it to drive
Speaker 2: up its entertainment value because the quality of the play
Speaker 2: is not great. So the closer three point line, the
Speaker 2: collegiate rules, the systems that they run, you know, it's
Speaker 2: it's you don't want it to look like NBA basketball.
Speaker 2: I think that kind of defeats the purpose exactly.
Speaker 1: And those guys don't have the skills. So if you
Speaker 1: do make it look like NBA bad basketball in terms
Speaker 1: of the rules, the style of it's just gonna look disgusting.
Speaker 1: And the twenty four second shot clock, I mean, these
Speaker 1: guys have trouble creating offense with the thirty second shot clock.
Speaker 1: You shaved six seconds off, it's gonna get even worse.
Speaker 1: So but no, the final thought on this, on this
Speaker 1: sort of stuff I just want to say is like, uh,
Speaker 1: I I do think though it's interesting hearing people talk
Speaker 1: about like, I don't know if college basketball is dying
Speaker 1: or just kind of the shift that's going on. Uh,
Speaker 1: But for what it's worth, the people that do love
Speaker 1: college basketball, I don't think we care about what what
Speaker 1: the draft means for our sport, you know, I think, Uh,
Speaker 1: the mistake that NBA people make is believing that college
Speaker 1: basketball exists solely to be a minor league system for
Speaker 1: the NBA. And that is just not true. And I
Speaker 1: don't I don't blame NBA people foreseeing that that way,
Speaker 1: because if I was, if I only cared about the NBA,
Speaker 1: that's how I would see it. This is the this
Speaker 1: is the feeder system to our league. But I swear
Speaker 1: to God, if if Ohio State this this next season,
Speaker 1: you told me they were the number one team in
Speaker 1: the country going into the season. But the caveat is
Speaker 1: that every single guy on the team is as talented
Speaker 1: as I was. And there you know, like this is
Speaker 1: there's been such a talent drain in college basketball that like,
Speaker 1: this is what the number one team in the country
Speaker 1: looks like, is that they're as good as I was.
Speaker 1: I would I would just strug my shoulders and be like,
Speaker 1: hell yeah, let's go Number one, baby, We're gonna win
Speaker 1: the nationally like that's I don't watch the sport, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, So it's not disheartening to me that Victor Win,
Speaker 1: Binyam and Scoot Henderson aren't and the Thompson Wins aren't
Speaker 1: playing in college. That's not why I watched the sport.
Speaker 1: And I think there there are a ton of people
Speaker 1: across the country that are that way, and the mistake,
Speaker 1: that's the only way I would describe it, is like
Speaker 1: that I think NBA people think that the reason people
Speaker 1: watch college is that we think that this is the
Speaker 1: best basket. We're not stupid, Jason, Like, we know, we
Speaker 1: understand that the NBA players are more talented. There's so
Speaker 1: many other reasons that we watch, and as long as
Speaker 1: those reasons exist, then the talent, Yes, we would prefer
Speaker 1: to have the best players in the world, the best
Speaker 1: non NBA players in the world be playing at college.
Speaker 1: But if they're not, we're still gonna watch, and we're
Speaker 1: still going to care immensely about whether our teams go
Speaker 1: to a Final four.
Speaker 2: That was such an important layer to the whole paying
Speaker 2: the players thing that just never got brought up. And
Speaker 2: I'm pro playing paying the players for the record, but
Speaker 2: it just like anything else, it's a complicated topic.
Speaker 3: And yeah, one of.
Speaker 2: The complications is everyone's like, oh, they're driving all this revenue.
Speaker 2: They're driving all this revenue, and I'm like, yeah, they do,
Speaker 2: and they deserve to be paid. But like, you're lying
Speaker 2: to yourself if you don't think that the duke across
Speaker 2: the chest also brings people to the arena and gets
Speaker 2: people to tune into the game, regardless of the players
Speaker 2: that are on the floor. Obviously, if if there was
Speaker 2: a massive talent drain, it would hurt ratings. But there's
Speaker 2: no doubt that the brands of the universities also drives
Speaker 2: a great deal of traffic. And that just never got
Speaker 2: brought up in that debate. It's like it was. It
Speaker 2: was so much more complicated than people were willing to admit.
Speaker 1: Yeah it is. It is. And it's weird because the
Speaker 1: conversations that are had privately are very different than the
Speaker 1: conversations you have publicly, which is fascinating to me because
Speaker 1: you talk to coaches and the people making the decisions
Speaker 1: in college basketball, and the way they talk about the name, image,
Speaker 1: likeness and the transfer portal and all that sort of
Speaker 1: stuff is very, very different than when there's a microphone
Speaker 1: and camera in front of their face and they know
Speaker 1: that recruits are watching. So I find that hilarious. It's
Speaker 1: just like nobody really likes the changes that are going on,
Speaker 1: but it's just kind of a necessary thing that has
Speaker 1: to happen because I think the powers that be got
Speaker 1: a little too greedy. And yeah, it does kind of
Speaker 1: stink right now. But anyway, I don't think it's that
Speaker 1: big of a deal though. I don't. I don't think
Speaker 1: like this is an indictment on colle I don't think
Speaker 1: this draft that's the way. I don't think it's an
Speaker 1: indictment on college basketball. I think it's just more representative
Speaker 1: of how different these two sports are becoming, which I mean, honestly,
Speaker 1: it does sort of make me sad because I love that.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's what we talked about. You came on
Speaker 1: my show. I just love basketball, man, I watch you.
Speaker 1: You can throw any basketball game on television. I want
Speaker 1: to watch it at any level. I'll watch high school
Speaker 1: if it's on. I don't love it as much, but
Speaker 1: like that's I and so to see. I don't want
Speaker 1: to say it's like a war but it does sort
Speaker 1: of feel like there are walls being built where like,
Speaker 1: you know, the crossover that used to exist when I
Speaker 1: would when I was growing up doesn't seem to be
Speaker 1: as as prevalent today, and that's that's kind of a bummer,
Speaker 1: but it is what it is. I don't that's like,
Speaker 1: that's part of getting older changes a bit.
Speaker 3: We're becoming the grumpy guys on the porch. That's that's
Speaker 3: a topic.
Speaker 1: So we're gonna do it.
Speaker 2: We're gonna do the draft picks rapid fire style. I've
Speaker 2: got four picks for you. Okay, just give me a
Speaker 2: quick thirty second. This is what Mark Titus thought about
Speaker 2: the dude watching him this season. Okay, number one Brandon Miller.
Speaker 1: Uh, super long a great jump shot, struggled finishing at
Speaker 1: the rim like weird. Uh. I I can't get the
Speaker 1: NCAA tournament out of my mind. Had one of the
Speaker 1: worst NCAA tournaments I've anyone's ever had, like literally anyone
Speaker 1: in the history of the tournament. I think the San
Speaker 1: Diego State game where he couldn't Uh, they've ran him
Speaker 1: off the three point line and then made him try
Speaker 1: to finish on their shop blockers and it did not
Speaker 1: go well. He was three for nineteen. I think that's
Speaker 1: like the worst case scenario of Brandon Miller. And then
Speaker 1: the other concern I have is that the one game
Speaker 1: that everyone points to as to why he was awesome
Speaker 1: happened against eleven and twenty one South Carolina team. He
Speaker 1: had four and they went to overtime and he had
Speaker 1: forty one points, and everyone's like, that's why he's going
Speaker 1: to be a superstar in the NBA, And I was, like,
Speaker 1: they won eleven games this year's.
Speaker 3: But I do like him.
Speaker 1: I think he's very good. I just think that, like, uh, yeah,
Speaker 1: there are some concerns there, and I think I think
Speaker 1: he's going to be a good NBA player, not a
Speaker 1: great NBA player, Yeah, And.
Speaker 2: Which is kind of like the everyone kind of points
Speaker 2: to Paul George as one of his comps, and I
Speaker 2: think that's definitely the top end because of the silkiness
Speaker 2: in the pull up. But like, here's the thing, Paul George,
Speaker 2: has he ever been a top ten player in the league, Like,
Speaker 2: it's hard to say. And so that that, let's one
Speaker 2: quick follow up. Do you would you have taken Scoot
Speaker 2: Henderson instead?
Speaker 1: I would have Yeah, I love Scoot. I think I
Speaker 1: think Scoots got the I think scoots highest potential is
Speaker 1: better ceiling higher than Brandon Miller's in my mind, because
Speaker 1: I think Scoot is Uh. The reason people seem to
Speaker 1: talk themselves out of Scoot is because he's smaller and
Speaker 1: he's like it feels like guys like him are more
Speaker 1: a dime a dozen and six nine guys that can
Speaker 1: shoot threes so smoothly aren't. But my I'm I'm more.
Speaker 1: That's the reason I like Scooters because I'm more familiar with,
Speaker 1: like seeing a guy like him who's just like explosive,
Speaker 1: a tank that can go to the basket and finish
Speaker 1: through contact and all that sort of that feels more
Speaker 1: familiar to me. So that's the reason I like like.
Speaker 1: Whereas Brandon Miller, it's just like he his game is
Speaker 1: a little he could shoot, but like, I think he
Speaker 1: succeeded this year because you're so much taller and people
Speaker 1: could just rise up and shoot over him. And is
Speaker 1: that gonna be something he's gonna be able to do
Speaker 1: in the NBA consistently?
Speaker 3: I I don't know what McDaniels, let's see what that
Speaker 3: looks like.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly exactly so, but he he was. But for
Speaker 1: what I mean, Brandon Miller was was dominant this year.
Speaker 1: It was awesome. But the NCAA Tournament. I just can't
Speaker 1: get that out of my head. Like I'm an old
Speaker 1: school guy. I think the biggest, brightest stage, I want
Speaker 1: to see how good you are. And he was a
Speaker 1: little banged up, but like that, that San Diego State
Speaker 1: game was disgusting. That was just a disgusting game of
Speaker 1: basketball from Brandon. Six turnovers, three for nineteen.
Speaker 3: And just bagically with Paul George stat line to be.
Speaker 1: He got put in like the psychological torture chamber too,
Speaker 1: because it was so obvious with San Diego State was doing.
Speaker 1: There was daring him to take mid range jump shots.
Speaker 1: He wouldn't do it. It was it was just it was.
Speaker 1: It was just a gross display of basketball. And yeah,
Speaker 1: that for that reason, I was like, you can't take
Speaker 1: this guy number two. And then the Hornets were like
Speaker 1: watch this.
Speaker 2: The number one high school prospect in the class of
Speaker 2: twenty twenty two was Derek Lively. He ended up playing
Speaker 2: only about twenty minutes a game for Duke. He did
Speaker 2: have a legendary shot blocking gamer, hit eight blocks can
Speaker 2: he anchor a decent defense in Dallas?
Speaker 1: I think he can eventually. I think he's the Thing
Speaker 1: I love about Derek Lively is that he has a
Speaker 1: very high defensive basketball like you, which is to say
Speaker 1: that like he, he has a good fear for like
Speaker 1: challenging shots and like knowing when guys are gonna go
Speaker 1: up with their shot. He's a really good shot like
Speaker 1: You're great timing, great instincts, super long h and also
Speaker 1: has a has a very high motor, which is underrated
Speaker 1: for young centers. I mean, I think this is I've
Speaker 1: done this exercise with people for but that I'm like,
Speaker 1: think about, like some of the most frustrating basketball players
Speaker 1: you've ever watched in your life, and just make a list. Now,
Speaker 1: look at that list. They're all seventy percent of them
Speaker 1: are probably centers. And the reason they're so frustrating is
Speaker 1: because normal people like you and I Jason watch big
Speaker 1: guys and we lose our minds because we're like, if
Speaker 1: we were that big, we would just be dunking on
Speaker 1: everybody and blocking every shot. And why can't John Drayton,
Speaker 1: why can't you care more? You know, Derek Lively cares.
Speaker 1: He's got a high mode. He's gonna run the floor.
Speaker 1: He's gonna I do think he can. He's got like
Speaker 1: some mechanic issues where like sometimes his rotation is not
Speaker 1: as clean and fluid as I would like it to be.
Speaker 1: But I think he's he's gonna be very very good defensively.
Speaker 1: Now the problem with him is offensively. I know, I'm
Speaker 1: not really sure what he brings to the table at all,
Speaker 1: which is why he didn't put up like eye popping
Speaker 1: stats for why he didn't play a ton for Duke.
Speaker 1: The other issue I have is he does foul a ton.
Speaker 1: I mean he he got in foul trouble like constantly.
Speaker 1: That's a reason he didn't That's that's why his minutes
Speaker 1: were down. I I think he can be that guy now. Now.
Speaker 1: Part of the appeal of a rookie like him is
Speaker 1: that he's not going to come in and try that.
Speaker 1: The MAVs aren't gonna ask him obviously, with the roster
Speaker 1: that they have, They're not going to be like, you're
Speaker 1: our first round pick, you are now the face of
Speaker 1: our franchise. Like some rookies. You know, some rookies get
Speaker 1: that's that's what's expected to them. That's obviously not gonna
Speaker 1: happen with him, and he's gonna be put in a
Speaker 1: position where it's like, just play really hard and play
Speaker 1: the dunker role on offense, and that's all we really
Speaker 1: need out of you. And I think he can excel
Speaker 1: at that. But he's got to he's got to figure
Speaker 1: out how to protect the rim without fouling a little more.
Speaker 1: But I I really really like him, and I think
Speaker 1: Duke's uh like the second half of this Duke season.
Speaker 1: Duke was a little rocky to start the season, but
Speaker 1: the second half, they really really came on and they
Speaker 1: were they were looking really dangerous. They ended up losing
Speaker 1: the in a scene the NCAA tournament, which that game
Speaker 1: barely resembled basketball. That was just a rock fight that
Speaker 1: that uh yeah, yeah, that was just that. I don't
Speaker 1: know that. I rarely cheer for Duke to win a game,
Speaker 1: and by the end of that game, I was like, man,
Speaker 1: I hope Duke wins this because they were getting the
Speaker 1: shit kicked out of him and it felt like it
Speaker 1: wasn't even basketball. Yeah uh, but but Duke. Duke had
Speaker 1: some serious momentum. They were sort of a trendy pick
Speaker 1: for people to win to the NCAA Tournament, honestly, and
Speaker 1: part and a big reason why is because Derek Lively
Speaker 1: had like exploded into the the best certainly the best
Speaker 1: interior defender, if not the best defender in all of
Speaker 1: college basketball. So I think the potential is there. He's
Speaker 1: just gotta he's got to clean up his uh, his
Speaker 1: fouling a little bit and I but but otherwise he's
Speaker 1: he's got great, great instincts for a young big men.
Speaker 2: I think his motor was the first thing that stood
Speaker 2: out to me watching like that dude plays hard. And
Speaker 2: then when you combine that with his mobility, like his
Speaker 2: ability to like come up and show on the level
Speaker 2: of the screen and then spread back into the paint
Speaker 2: to be able to guard the roleman or protect the paint, Like, yeah,
Speaker 2: I see this.
Speaker 3: Let's just put it this way.
Speaker 2: The last time we had a kid with his physical tools,
Speaker 2: motor and like natural defensive instincts, it turned into Nick Claxton,
Speaker 2: who was basically the foundational piece of a really good
Speaker 2: defense there in Brooklyn last year. So, like, I actually
Speaker 2: really liked this pick, But just like with anything else,
Speaker 2: there's also a million guys who kind of came up
Speaker 2: with this type of physical profileists didn't. It just didn't
Speaker 2: materialize into anything. So, but that's the draft. That's the draft.
Speaker 2: Brandon Potzimski. What with the Warriors obviously a little bit
Speaker 2: of a log jam at the guard position already with
Speaker 2: Chris Paul and with Steph Curry Klay Thompson, do you
Speaker 2: think he's someone that can help them right away or
Speaker 2: do you view him as like a future trade vehicle.
Speaker 1: I yeah, like the peel of Pozemski is on the
Speaker 1: Warriors is that. But but I feel like we've done
Speaker 1: this with the Warriors since Stephen Clay exploded into who
Speaker 1: they are, where every single draft pick they get, you're
Speaker 1: just like, oh, that's perfect, that's a perfect that's a
Speaker 1: perfect yeah, or it's like it's great for the rookie
Speaker 1: they just took because now they can now they can
Speaker 1: kind of what I was just saying about lively, where
Speaker 1: like you're not expected to come in and be the guy. Uh.
Speaker 1: I feel like that's what we say about every single
Speaker 1: Warriors pick, and you're just like, oh, that's perfect for
Speaker 1: him because you can just go in and not have
Speaker 1: you can learn behind stuff and play and then when
Speaker 1: it's his time he can be the guy. Uh I
Speaker 1: I I actually don't love it for him because I,
Speaker 1: like you said, there's a logjam at guards. I. He
Speaker 1: was the most polarizing prospect I felt for this draft
Speaker 1: like people I talked to, because he he his feel
Speaker 1: for the game is incredible. So his his story is
Speaker 1: he went to Illinois for a year. He averaged like
Speaker 1: he barely not only was he an afterthought on this
Speaker 1: Illinois team. I don't even know if people even knew
Speaker 1: he was on the Illinois team. I don't even know
Speaker 1: if Brad Underwood knew he was on the Illinois team.
Speaker 1: He's coach at Illinois. Uh. He averaged like one point
Speaker 1: a game. He was putting up Titus stat lines, uh
Speaker 1: for for Illinois transfers to Santa Claire. Doesn't sit out
Speaker 1: a year. There's not like a there's not like some
Speaker 1: like cocoon period where he's like blossom, you know, taking
Speaker 1: his time to.
Speaker 3: Like blocks like six pack potes.
Speaker 1: Yes. Yeah, No, he just like basically just transferred and
Speaker 1: immediately turned into the West Coast Conference Player of the Year.
Speaker 1: Was was was putting up numbers this year for Santa
Speaker 1: Claara that were absurd and you know, it depends on
Speaker 1: how you want to look at it. And that's why
Speaker 1: he's so polarizing because some people were like he was
Speaker 1: being obviously held back at Illinois and he wasn't this,
Speaker 1: he wasn't given a chance to flourish. And like, when
Speaker 1: you put the ball in his hands, let him cook,
Speaker 1: he's gonna be And he's so good. He's got an
Speaker 1: incredible feel for the game. Great catch and shoot guy. Uh.
Speaker 1: I I have more of a pessimistic view, which is, like,
Speaker 1: I I trust that Brad Underwood saw something with his
Speaker 1: ad like his He's not a great athlete. I don't
Speaker 1: think he can keep his shadow in front of him defensively,
Speaker 1: and I'm worried about that because I think like he
Speaker 1: he felt to me like a guy at Santa Claara
Speaker 1: that like, yes, he is really good when he has
Speaker 1: the ball in his hands, but like that's not gonna happen,
Speaker 1: Like what Golden State's not gonna throw him out here
Speaker 1: and be like all right for the next five minutes.
Speaker 1: It's all you, yeah, yeah, You're running all the offense.
Speaker 1: So I think he's gonna be really good as a
Speaker 1: catch and shoot guy for Golden State. I think like
Speaker 1: in certain scenarios where the ball is up in his
Speaker 1: hand light in a shot clock, maybe he can dip
Speaker 1: into some of the magic he had a Santa Flower.
Speaker 1: But he's not a great athlete. He's not I don't
Speaker 1: know how much he's gonna create offense for himself, but
Speaker 1: his feel for the game, Jason, I will say, like
Speaker 1: as much as as much as I, I don't think
Speaker 1: the physical traits are there. I do think that like
Speaker 1: he's got a great IQ and he has a great
Speaker 1: touch from like every spot on the floor, so like
Speaker 1: you can kind of see the vision. But he feels
Speaker 1: a little bit like like I don't think he's anywhere
Speaker 1: close as good as Dante DiVincenzo. And when you think
Speaker 1: about it like that, like Dante DiVincenzo to me was
Speaker 1: a guy that I was really excited about when he
Speaker 1: was coming out of college. And not that he's had
Speaker 1: a bad NBA career, but he's just kinda he's just
Speaker 1: kind of like a throw in for the Warriors, isn't he?
Speaker 1: I mean, does Dante Devens. He's not an integral part
Speaker 1: of what the Warriors are doing. So I don't think
Speaker 1: it's an interesting pick though, because there are people that
Speaker 1: are very very high on him. The Warriors seemed to
Speaker 1: be high him because that's why they took him. I
Speaker 1: felt like they took him a lot earlier than other
Speaker 1: teams might have taken him, So we'll see. I would
Speaker 1: love to be wrong on him, but I saw that
Speaker 1: as like a damn, this is a long term project
Speaker 1: for them.
Speaker 2: I think, well, I think Warriors fans are actually a
Speaker 2: lot more excited about Jackson Davis than they are about Brandon.
Speaker 2: And the entire pitch for the pick is Dante DiVincenzo replacement,
Speaker 2: and what they're looking at there is like great rebounder.
Speaker 2: Dante was an awesome rebounder, someone crash the offensive glass constantly,
Speaker 2: and Brandon averaged something crazy like eight and a half
Speaker 2: rebounds a game or something like that at Santa Clara.
Speaker 2: The thing is is like Dante was a really good athlete,
Speaker 2: like deceptively good athlete, like very very quick, and was
Speaker 2: a good ball pressure guard for Golden State. Like Brandon's
Speaker 2: got short arms, Like he's only got like a six
Speaker 2: four and a half wingspan. That's not doing him many favors.
Speaker 2: He's a great vertical athlete, but he's not super laterally quick.
Speaker 2: I do think I think he'll be actually a little
Speaker 2: bit better offensively than Dante was. He's just a more
Speaker 2: consistent shooter. And then he's got all that weird. The
Speaker 2: cop that I've seen a lot of draft experts throughout
Speaker 2: is D'Angelo Russell, and I definitely saw a little bit
Speaker 2: of that on Taper. Like every bucket he gets in
Speaker 2: the mid rates just looks a little weird, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean? But I do, I do think he'll
Speaker 2: he'll be able to help them a little bit offensively.
Speaker 2: But yeah, like the Dante Devintenzil replacement thing is just
Speaker 2: dead on arrival for me, because not only is he
Speaker 2: not the same type of athlete, but like Dante's had
Speaker 2: years of NBA experience taking on perimmeter defensive assignments, learning
Speaker 2: how to do all of the things that he needed
Speaker 2: to do to be a functional part of an NBA defense.
Speaker 1: He's miles better at, Like Devincenzo is a miles better
Speaker 1: athlete than Pazjemski. But and then the other day, like
Speaker 1: you're making the Russell comparison, Like Russell, I like the
Speaker 1: comparison for a lot of junk to the game and
Speaker 1: the mid rate. Like you said, like every shot feels
Speaker 1: a little weird. But with a guy like that, you
Speaker 1: have to have patience as a fan almost where you're
Speaker 1: willing to let him have the job weird again, doing
Speaker 1: weird shit again, and you're like, I I got it, Like,
Speaker 1: and I think when you go to a team like
Speaker 1: the Warriors, I don't exactly think the Warriors and the
Speaker 1: Lakers and the Celtics and you know, like franchises like that,
Speaker 1: I don't. I'm gonna go ahead and guess if they
Speaker 1: don't exactly have patient fans that are like, oh yeah,
Speaker 1: let's as we're as we have our title window open,
Speaker 1: let's also let this guy like figure out who he
Speaker 1: is at the NBA level. This is awesome. Let's use
Speaker 1: huge minutes of every game to like let this rookie
Speaker 1: figure out who you know, That's not what I'm like, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's not gonna happen. So I don't. I don't love it,
Speaker 1: but uh, you know, I I hope it works out
Speaker 1: for him because he was fun to watch this year.
Speaker 1: He was definitely fun.
Speaker 2: We'll find out one way or another, Okay, really quickly
Speaker 2: on this one, because I want to spend a couple
Speaker 2: of minutes on Stephan and Chris Paul, So, uh, are
Speaker 2: Lakers fan's gonna like Jalen Fino? Do you think he
Speaker 2: could run a backup unit in the NBA?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yes, Yes, he's got size, he's his his basketball qu's
Speaker 1: through the roof. If you want to believe in Jalen
Speaker 1: ch Fino, go watch the game at Purdue. His mid
Speaker 1: range game elite, his feel for the game is elite.
Speaker 1: He's obviously got some weaknesses. He's not gonna be uh
Speaker 1: you know, the face of the franchise and and all
Speaker 1: that sort of thing. But yeah, I his pick and
Speaker 1: roll game is for for a for a freshman is absurd.
Speaker 1: And and I I I really really like him. He's
Speaker 1: got a He's not as great as a shooter as
Speaker 1: I'd like him to be, and he's definitely got stuff
Speaker 1: to work on. But uh, I I in the role
Speaker 1: that you're you're saying, Jayson, I think he's gonna be awesome.
Speaker 1: I I do. I I don't know if it's gonna
Speaker 1: be right away, but I think he's he's super super
Speaker 1: mature for a for a nineteen year old. Uh And
Speaker 1: and I watch a lot of lot of terrible nineteen
Speaker 1: year olds play point guard in college basketball. This is
Speaker 1: what I do for a living. And that guy stood
Speaker 1: out to me with how poised and mature and understanding
Speaker 1: of speeds and uh, you know, fast to slow back
Speaker 1: to fast back to you know, just all that kind
Speaker 1: of stuff he was so so good at. And I
Speaker 1: think he's he's gonna play in the NBA as long
Speaker 1: as he wants to.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I I uh.
Speaker 2: He definitely has some issues in pick and roll, Like
Speaker 2: he's not great at making the cross court past. That
Speaker 2: was something that stood out to me. But he's actually
Speaker 2: really good at feeding the role man and he did
Speaker 2: a ton of that with Tray Jackson Davis. So putting
Speaker 2: him alongside Anthony Davis and Lebron and the Lakers use
Speaker 2: those two as screeners constantly, and the real question is
Speaker 2: like can he do what? Can he run picking rolls
Speaker 2: as efficiently as Lonnie Walker did?
Speaker 1: Absolutely?
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, you know, like like Canny canny step in
Speaker 2: and and by the way, like there's a lot of
Speaker 2: focus on his shooting, but he shot over forty percent
Speaker 2: on pull up jumpers last year, so like, yeah, he's
Speaker 2: got some issues with his mechanics and catch and shoot situations.
Speaker 2: But he really does shoot the ball well when he's
Speaker 2: off the bounce, and so can he run bench unit?
Speaker 3: I think he can't.
Speaker 1: I think you can't do. My fear is that they
Speaker 1: put him off the ball more and he's just like
Speaker 1: if he's like if you're putting him in the corner,
Speaker 1: it's like his roles like catch and shoot when Lebron
Speaker 1: draws defenders that he's kicking it out to him Like
Speaker 1: I don't know if I love him in that, but like, yeah,
Speaker 1: playing the second unit, Uh yeah, just go that's my
Speaker 1: that's my homework. For Lakers fans that want to talk
Speaker 1: themselves into Hocha Fino's, go watch the Perdue game. I'm
Speaker 1: sure highlights are on YouTube. They're playing job coverage against
Speaker 1: him with their big centers Zach Edie, and he just diced.
Speaker 1: He was hitting mid range pull up after midrange pull up,
Speaker 1: and it was just it was clinical. That's the only
Speaker 1: word to describe it. And for a freshman point guard
Speaker 1: and a rivalry game on the road, all that sort
Speaker 1: of thing that just doesn't happen at the college level,
Speaker 1: and he was was it was honestly allegend. I will
Speaker 1: remember that game for the rest of my life. And
Speaker 1: I don't say that lightly. So I'm very high on Hochaina.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna have to check that game out later. All Right,
Speaker 2: to the biggest and most important question of the day.
Speaker 2: Uh is it unfair for ESPN to running to be
Speaker 2: running highlight reels of Steph Curry crossing over Chris Paul
Speaker 2: while they're interviewing him about his book and asking him
Speaker 2: questions about the fit with the Warriors.
Speaker 1: I think Chris Paul kind of I don't know, as
Speaker 1: as a guy who doesn't live in the Chris Baul
Speaker 1: universe that much but just dabbles here every so often.
Speaker 1: I will say, I do feel like Chris Paul brings
Speaker 1: a lot of the negative stuff upon himself. I think
Speaker 1: he's there's some about him that's just such an easy
Speaker 1: target for jokes. And like when he was complaining about
Speaker 1: his son getting comments in school about how his dad
Speaker 1: will never win a championship Jason, I was like, get in, Lineman,
Speaker 1: that's that's part of going to junior high.
Speaker 3: Like, I can't.
Speaker 1: I don't know a single person that went to junior
Speaker 1: high they didn't have to deal with their dad getting
Speaker 1: joke like that was that's that's common, Like at least
Speaker 1: you're at least his dad is playing in the NBA,
Speaker 1: and its crazy, you're like many out how many dads
Speaker 1: are like in prison or like working like shitty jobs
Speaker 1: that like you know that they're getting clowned at the
Speaker 1: lunch table every day by the by the rest of
Speaker 1: the group. So uh, stuff like that. I think he
Speaker 1: just brings it upon him. There's some about him that's
Speaker 1: just like so easy to pick on. But uh, what,
Speaker 1: what are your thoughts on the trade? Like is this
Speaker 1: I felt like this was a perfect This is a
Speaker 1: perfect NBA trade to me because I think the Warriors
Speaker 1: are demonstrably better. I think, uh, obviously, the Warriors are
Speaker 1: one of the brands that that pop in the NBA,
Speaker 1: and and so for for a team like that to
Speaker 1: get they are, I think they're a better basketball team
Speaker 1: than they were before the trade, and it's gonna be
Speaker 1: awesome to watch them now try to go after another championship.
Speaker 1: But I bet, but this obviously isn't a deal like
Speaker 1: Durant going to the Warriors, where it's like, yes, one
Speaker 1: of the team's got one of the contenders, just got better.
Speaker 1: But now the league's kind of ruined because we all
Speaker 1: know what's going to happen. It's not there's still question
Speaker 1: marks on how they're gonna fit. And and for that reason,
Speaker 1: it's like a perfect trade because it's it's sexy enough
Speaker 1: to talk yourself into, like are the Warriors now should
Speaker 1: they be favored against the Nuggets? But then you also
Speaker 1: see the path where it's like I, as is always
Speaker 1: the case, every time Chris Paul joins a new team,
Speaker 1: you say, there's only one ball and could Chris Paul
Speaker 1: be the point god while at the same time letting
Speaker 1: Steph Curry do everything he does? Well? Can they both
Speaker 1: do that? It's fascinating, Oh, it absolutely is.
Speaker 2: I think I think in general, when we see trades
Speaker 2: like this, there's there's the obvious side of it, and
Speaker 2: then there's the more complex side of it. So it's
Speaker 2: like the Bradley Beal trade. It's like, does trading Chris
Speaker 2: Paul and Landry Shamit for Bradley Beal make you better?
Speaker 3: Obviously? You know what I mean?
Speaker 2: Does this flipping Jordan Poole, one of the worst defensive
Speaker 2: guards in the league and a guy that was super
Speaker 2: inconsistent offensively for a more steady backup guard. Does that
Speaker 2: make the Warriors better? Obviously, and the case for it.
Speaker 2: The two elements that I look at is one they
Speaker 2: had a like they were plus forty seven in the
Speaker 2: playoffs with Steph on the floor and minus forty nine
Speaker 2: when he was off. So it's about managing the Steph
Speaker 2: off minutes, which totally makes sense to me too. These
Speaker 2: are some crazy numbers that I found on Synergy. Steph
Speaker 2: Curry ran pick and roll in about the pick and
Speaker 2: roll or ISO on about sixty three percent of his
Speaker 2: play types in the regular season, but that number shot
Speaker 2: way up to seventy two percent in the postseason, which
Speaker 2: is natural. Like in the playoffs, they scout your sets,
Speaker 2: your sets don't work as effectively a lot of late
Speaker 2: clock situations where you're bailing out possessions or just you
Speaker 2: saying screw it, let's just run high, pick and roll
Speaker 2: time and time again. And so I think Chris Paul
Speaker 2: gives them that added dimension to their offense in those
Speaker 2: particular situations. But again I just look back at the
Speaker 2: team wide thing and the use of the asset, like
Speaker 2: did Phoenix really need another right high pick and roll
Speaker 2: shot creator or would they have been better off moving
Speaker 2: assets for like real athletes, kind of like what the
Speaker 2: Lakers did, Like, let's bring back a bunch of dudes
Speaker 2: who do the dirty work, and let's see if that
Speaker 2: helps my Lebron James and Anthony Davis core bring us
Speaker 2: over the top. Like there's a question over the use
Speaker 2: of the asset for Phoenix. The same thing goes for
Speaker 2: Golden State, Like would you have been better off taking
Speaker 2: Jordan Poole's big salary slot and moving him for multiple
Speaker 2: useful front court players for a team that's been super
Speaker 2: small and that that's kind of the way that I
Speaker 2: look at it. It's no doubt Golden State's gonna be better.
Speaker 2: There will be multiple times next year, where as a
Speaker 2: Warriors fan, you're gonna be glad you had Chris Paul
Speaker 2: instead of having Jordan Poole. But like, in a bigger picture,
Speaker 2: was it the right use of the asset? That's kind
Speaker 2: of where I'm at.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree, that's that. But for me, as like
Speaker 1: a neutral NBA observer, I think that's what makes it
Speaker 1: a fun trade is because we don't really know and
Speaker 1: the trades that happen where you're immediately like, damn, this
Speaker 1: team just became a juggernaut and the rest the rest
Speaker 1: of the league is crewed, or like, Okay, so this
Speaker 1: team's obviously going to be a disaster next year. Those
Speaker 1: aren't quite as fun because we kind of already know
Speaker 1: where we're headed. And the Warriors, I don't think it's
Speaker 1: obvious either way, and it's gonna be They're not gonna
Speaker 1: be bad obviously, Like it's not like they're gonna bottom out.
Speaker 1: I don't mean to say that, but uh yeah, you
Speaker 1: could talk yourself into like the Warriors should be the
Speaker 1: favorite to win the title now, or you could be like, well, well,
Speaker 1: we'll have to see, like for all the reasons you mentioned,
Speaker 1: like is it a roster that makes one hundred percent sense?
Speaker 1: Time will tell, we will see.
Speaker 2: I admire I admire the fortitude of them being like
Speaker 2: this group can do it, this group can do it,
Speaker 2: and that that bet has paid off for them in
Speaker 2: the past, it paid off for them in twenty twenty two.
Speaker 2: They they have a reason to feel confident in them
Speaker 2: the way that they do.
Speaker 1: For what it's worth too, Like I do go back
Speaker 1: to like every time, like I said earlier, every time
Speaker 1: Chris Paul joins a new team, I'm like all right,
Speaker 1: there's one ball. How is this gonna work with you know,
Speaker 1: if him and Steph are on the floor at the
Speaker 1: same time. Obviously Steph can play off the ball. But like,
Speaker 1: like I said, like you want Chris Paul to be
Speaker 1: if you want to maximize Chris Paul and maximize Steph Curry,
Speaker 1: can they both happen with both of them on the
Speaker 1: floorida the same time. I don't know, But we said
Speaker 1: all that about Chris Paul and James Harden and I
Speaker 1: think people because of who those two guys are, and
Speaker 1: they're so easy to make fun of and they're so
Speaker 1: easy to to rip on that you look back on
Speaker 1: their time as Houston and consider it a failure because
Speaker 1: they didn't ever make the finals. That was a success,
Speaker 1: Like that team figured it out. They were very very good.
Speaker 1: They should have They had to direct, they were close,
Speaker 1: they were disclose. So I think if you look back
Speaker 1: on that quote unquote experiment and say, obviously, having two
Speaker 1: guys that are that want the ball in their hands
Speaker 1: at all times to do what they do, and that
Speaker 1: can't work with Chris Paul and someone else who needs
Speaker 1: the ball like it can We saw it work with
Speaker 1: the Rockets it just didn't work to the extent that
Speaker 1: like a lot of brain dead morons that consume basketball
Speaker 1: think it has to work to be success, which is
Speaker 1: that you have to win a championship. Otherwise you're a failure.
Speaker 1: That team was good, That team was good enough to
Speaker 1: win a title. It just sometimes in basketball, you missed
Speaker 1: twenty seven straight threes, Jason.
Speaker 2: Sometimes, yeah, sometimes it happens. And there's there's no doubt
Speaker 2: that the play styles are weird. I shared the stat
Speaker 2: with call it, but like, the Warriors ran a pick
Speaker 2: and roll in twenty four percent of their play types
Speaker 2: during the regular season last year, which was dead last
Speaker 2: in the league, and Chris Paul ran it on seventy
Speaker 2: seven percent of his play types, which was number one
Speaker 2: in the entire league.
Speaker 3: Out of all the players.
Speaker 2: So there's definitely like some fit stuff. But just like
Speaker 2: with the Houston thing, we always underestimate the power of
Speaker 2: like just smart basketball players figuring it out.
Speaker 1: They just do.
Speaker 2: They just find a way more often than not. All right,
Speaker 2: we are officially out of time, but Mark, this was
Speaker 2: a blast, man. I hope we can work together a
Speaker 2: couple more times this summer to help kill the time
Speaker 2: between the seasons. I really appreciate you coming on one
Speaker 2: last note for everybody listening, We're gonna be doing a
Speaker 2: Mailbag episode either Wednesday or Thursday this week, depending on
Speaker 2: whether or not Damian Lillard finally comes forward and demands
Speaker 2: a trade, but drops some questions for the mail Bag
Speaker 2: in the comment section, and we will hit them later
Speaker 2: this week. As always, I appreciate you guys, and we
Speaker 2: will see you tomorrow. The volume