Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Cool People That Cool Stuff. You're
Speaker 1: twice a week podcast that usually I write a little
Speaker 1: introduction thing for. I'm your host, Margaret Kilchoy, and my
Speaker 1: guest is Daniel Daniel.
Speaker 2: That's me. I'm happy to be back track from DJ
Speaker 2: Danel track You're not gonna believe this flex bomb. That
Speaker 2: is what all of DJ Daniels you should look up?
Speaker 3: Are there, Daniel? I know you've showed me videos of
Speaker 3: you DJ, but are there videos on the internet?
Speaker 2: They make me so happy. You're just so Daniel is
Speaker 2: so zoned. Oh well, thank you. Our group is called
Speaker 2: Gladiator and we still have some stuff on Spotify or
Speaker 2: you could, you know, google Gladiator Live.
Speaker 1: What kind of stuff do you dju.
Speaker 2: We were an electronic music group. We played a lot
Speaker 2: of like hip hop influenced electronic music. It's called trap
Speaker 2: music and electron trap music. It's original trap music. It's
Speaker 2: like you know, like like this, the I and whatnot.
Speaker 2: But yeah, exactly, but played a lot of that, played
Speaker 2: a lot of house. Another genre we were very into
Speaker 2: was mombatone, which is a portmanteau that reggaetone and a
Speaker 2: Dutch house song called Mumba by this uh, this artist
Speaker 2: Silvia Ecomo and a remix by this dude Afrojack. It's
Speaker 2: a long story, but basically it's kind of like reggaetone
Speaker 2: but just electronic, and it was very, very danceable, and
Speaker 2: I think it kind of like helped push for Well. Actually,
Speaker 2: I'm not going to take credit for Eyes. I won't.
Speaker 2: I won't take credit for it, but the genre of
Speaker 2: moonbatone is definitely helpful in bringing reggaetone to a pop
Speaker 2: culture audience in some in some capacity. In some capacity,
Speaker 2: it was always incredibly popular music around the world. But
Speaker 2: you inn is that what you're sat? Oh no, oh no,
Speaker 2: I really put my foot in it.
Speaker 3: Oh, And depends on how much Ian agrees with that,
Speaker 3: might or might not make it into the I know it.
Speaker 2: Ian, if that feels really wrong, please cut it.
Speaker 1: No wait no, Ian, you can interject your own recording
Speaker 1: about how you feel about it. You won't hate having
Speaker 1: that extra work because Ian is both our audio engineer
Speaker 1: and the other half of that particular DJ collective Gladiator
Speaker 1: A Gladiator.
Speaker 3: I have the full Gladiator on staff, which is something
Speaker 3: I like to bring up as much as I possibly can.
Speaker 2: Here another another something for the for the audience here
Speaker 2: is this is a sticker that we used to hold on.
Speaker 2: Can I cover my face that it focuses? There we go.
Speaker 2: This is an old sticker of Ian and I when
Speaker 2: I had a full on zzy top beard. It was
Speaker 2: famous for bucket hats. WHOA, everything has changed? Shall we
Speaker 2: bring that back? What that? Well? No, Stephanie will not
Speaker 2: let me bring the beard back. But maybe the bucket hats.
Speaker 1: We can make cool Zone media stickers that are still
Speaker 1: just that. Those faces we could. I think you two
Speaker 1: should be the face of cool Zone Media. I agree,
Speaker 1: and that is okay. So Sophie is our producer, the
Speaker 1: afore mentioned Ian is the audio engineer, and our theme
Speaker 1: music was written for us by un woman. Damn you.
Speaker 2: I know that.
Speaker 3: In the script for under preamble it just says stuff.
Speaker 1: Yes, it's highlighted. So this is part two of a
Speaker 1: three parter on the queer groups of the early nineteen
Speaker 1: seventies in the US and the UK. Last time we
Speaker 1: talked about the birth of the Gay Liberation Front. Now
Speaker 1: we're going to talk about a splinter from that which
Speaker 1: just did so fucking much. We're talking about Star the
Speaker 1: Street Transvestite Action revolutionaries. I'd actually only ever heard of
Speaker 1: them in passing like they were like, oh, there's like
Speaker 1: a mutual aid group that passed out food to street
Speaker 1: queer sex workers in New York City, And that's true.
Speaker 1: They did do that. They also did so much more
Speaker 1: than that. Hell yeah, So Star was for and by
Speaker 1: street gay people, street homeless people, and anybody that needed help. Basically,
Speaker 1: it was founded in nineteen seventy by Sylvia Rivera and
Speaker 1: Marsha P. Johnson, who are both veterans of the Stonewall
Speaker 1: rioting and the Gay Liberation Front and the GAA. Actually
Speaker 1: they were kind of did it all. They are most
Speaker 1: famous now people be like, oh, the you know, trans
Speaker 1: woman of color who threw the first brick at Stonewall.
Speaker 1: It is not true that they like quote through the
Speaker 1: first brick at Stonewall. That doesn't matter. They are people
Speaker 1: who fought in the riots and did amazing work as organizers,
Speaker 1: and their contributions should still not be taken away. But
Speaker 1: so Star started during the defense for other gay people
Speaker 1: because we've always been working together. In nineteen seventy, NYU
Speaker 1: canceled a bunch of planned dances once they realized they
Speaker 1: were sponsored by the gays dundon ooo oooh the canceling
Speaker 1: not the case. Yeah yeah, well boo. From the point
Speaker 1: of view of NYU, you.
Speaker 2: Know, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: So the GLF, the Radical lesbians, the one word that
Speaker 1: talked about before, and other groups occupied the hall at
Speaker 1: least eighty people. The numbers fluctuated. Sometimes there'd be as
Speaker 1: few as ten, sometimes there'd be as many as like
Speaker 1: three hundred. For almost a week they occupied a building
Speaker 1: of NYU. Hell yeah, yeah, no, I I never heard
Speaker 1: of it, you know, But then again, people were occupying
Speaker 1: universities like every fucking week in nineteen sixty nine, nineteen seventy.
Speaker 1: In this case, I think so street gays came and
Speaker 1: helped street gays in this context, being gay people lived
Speaker 1: on the street because they had no home, and Sylvia
Speaker 1: and Marsha, who are both homeless sex workers, talked to
Speaker 1: folks and non street gay folks were like, yeah, if
Speaker 1: you organize, we'll have your backs. And so at this occupation,
Speaker 1: this is the first time a lot of these different
Speaker 1: groups really came together like and saw each other and
Speaker 1: had to like live with each other and organize with
Speaker 1: each other. Street transvestites and middle class gays black folks,
Speaker 1: white folks, Latino folks. They all played spin the bottle
Speaker 1: together in the basement of an NYU building, sleeping on
Speaker 1: pool tables and shit. A lot of lesbians and street
Speaker 1: queens hung out together for the first time. These were
Speaker 1: groups that have been like kind of a little bit distanced, right,
Speaker 1: and it was a major coming together for the movement.
Speaker 1: The occupation lasted six nights before it was broken up
Speaker 1: by police at gunpoint, who were like, we're gonna Jesus
Speaker 1: I can kill you off you don't get the fuck.
Speaker 2: Out of here, all right, fine, I guess.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. And so afterwards the street queens they were
Speaker 1: tired of running, you know. I think a lot of
Speaker 1: it was like, well, they were perfectly happy to do
Speaker 1: the occupation. That better sleep on a pool table than
Speaker 1: the doorway, you know, Right, And so they formed Star
Speaker 1: And partly it was to get away from mafia control
Speaker 1: of spaces again, right, there's a big part of all
Speaker 1: of this, but there was no complete escape. We'll talk
Speaker 1: about how the mafia still ties into all of it.
Speaker 1: Their platform fought for the rights of trans people and
Speaker 1: for street youth. I like the way they wrote here's
Speaker 1: the last point of their manifesto. After there's eight other
Speaker 1: points before it that are sort of like reasonable demands,
Speaker 1: like hey, stop exploiting us, you know, and all that quote,
Speaker 1: we want a revolutionary people's government where transvestites, street people, women, homosexuals,
Speaker 1: Puerto Ricans, Indians and all oppressed people are free and
Speaker 1: not fucked over by this government who treat us like
Speaker 1: the scum of the earth and kills us off like
Speaker 1: flies one by one and throws us into jail to
Speaker 1: rot the government who spends millions of dollars to go
Speaker 1: to the moon and lets poor Americans starve to death.
Speaker 2: So they're pretty strong. Yeah, I like that. They're just
Speaker 2: like the way they wrote was like, well this is
Speaker 2: what I think, you know, Yeah, I mean, you know,
Speaker 2: got to get it out. Yeah, and very clearly too. Right.
Speaker 1: Yes, there's not a lot of it. Yeah, And there's
Speaker 1: not a lot like jargon.
Speaker 2: It's just no.
Speaker 1: And so they were regularly, the two of them, are
Speaker 1: and Sylvia, they were regularly like they'd go and like
Speaker 1: get two hotel rooms and then get fifty street queers
Speaker 1: crammed into these two hotel rooms.
Speaker 2: Oh wow.
Speaker 1: Then they started sleeping in a I believe they squatted this.
Speaker 1: It was a parked tractor trailer in an outdoor parking
Speaker 1: lot in Greenwich Village.
Speaker 2: Cool yeah, hell yeah.
Speaker 1: And there was more than twenty Star activists living in
Speaker 1: the trailer. And when I say Star activists, I mean
Speaker 1: like fourteen and fifteen year olds.
Speaker 2: Wow, oh my gosh.
Speaker 1: Star Marcia and Sylvia were like eighteen, so they were
Speaker 1: like the mothers, you know, eighteen. And these these teenagers
Speaker 1: had the scars to show from the families that they'd fled.
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna get into like you can read about
Speaker 1: a lot of the specific stuff that these people have suffered,
Speaker 1: and I don't I don't feel the need to. We
Speaker 1: can believe that their lives were hard, yeah, for real,
Speaker 1: And not all of them. Most of the street queens
Speaker 1: were somewhere in the like vestite, transfeminine, like people who
Speaker 1: are you know, sign mail at birth, who are wearing
Speaker 1: women's clothes, who identify all different ways later in their lives,
Speaker 1: but at the time identified as street queens. But some
Speaker 1: of them were also girls in men's clothes, so it
Speaker 1: wasn't just the other way around. And they had all
Speaker 1: had really fucked up, hard lives. There's a whole bunch
Speaker 1: of stories about the premature deaths they came to coming
Speaker 1: from violence. A few of them murdered people of their
Speaker 1: own in street fights. A rough and tumble existence. So
Speaker 1: they lived in this eighteen wheeler and the reason I'm
Speaker 1: guessing it squatted is that one morning they woke up
Speaker 1: and it was driving away. Wow, So they all had
Speaker 1: to jump out yeah no, yeah, And it was like
Speaker 1: I think Marcia and Sylvia had like gone off to
Speaker 1: like they pull all at the end of the night.
Speaker 1: They'd all pull all their money from panhandling and petty
Speaker 1: crime and sex work and stuff, and they would pull
Speaker 1: all their money and then Sylvie and march It would
Speaker 1: go and buy food and they were like coming back
Speaker 1: at dawn to like bring back food. And the truck
Speaker 1: was like driving right, it was gone and like all
Speaker 1: the kids are jumping out of it. One of them
Speaker 1: who was on downers slept through it and like ended
Speaker 1: up in California.
Speaker 2: California. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I don't entirely understand the means by which is the
Speaker 1: person that slept this long they must have like come
Speaker 1: woken up and then been like oh fuck, I don't
Speaker 1: really know.
Speaker 2: I mean, they probably woke up in the middle of
Speaker 2: the nowhere at a rest stop that was getting like
Speaker 2: refuel and it was like where are we you got
Speaker 2: to stay on It's like all right, well, yeah, this
Speaker 2: is what we're doing now. Yeah, that must have been
Speaker 2: a niche. And so without their trailer, they rented a
Speaker 2: piece of shit building from the mafia and they paid
Speaker 2: for this. Okay, there's two buildings that Stars involved in,
Speaker 2: and all of the stories about both of them are conflated.
Speaker 2: This is my best piece scene in a part. The
Speaker 2: buildings that they rented they were paid for two ways.
Speaker 2: One with Sylvie and Marsha's sex work. They tried to
Speaker 2: kind of be like, look, we'll do it you all please,
Speaker 2: fifteen year olds, don't you know. And plus fundraising dances
Speaker 2: thrown by Star and the GLF together and apparently at
Speaker 2: these these dances, Sylvia would collect the donations at the
Speaker 2: door armed with a knife to make sure that people
Speaker 2: donated we support Yeah, she also pocketed some of the
Speaker 2: donations for her own use, you know, to be this
Speaker 2: is where we point out they are eighteen. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And so the first place, the more like formal place
Speaker 1: that they had was called the Gay Community Center the GCC,
Speaker 1: which is one of the ancestors of all gay community
Speaker 1: centers today, right, And it's like, I remember when I
Speaker 1: didn't have health insurance and you know, like lived in
Speaker 1: a van or whatever, and I like hurt my chest.
Speaker 1: I like went to the this like place in Boston
Speaker 1: that's this giant building that's a gay health clinic or whatever,
Speaker 1: you know, and it was great. They treated me even
Speaker 1: though I was uninsured and things like that. But it's
Speaker 1: just like really important to remember that this like this
Speaker 1: is where, this is where it comes from, this infrastructure
Speaker 1: that was built by sex workers and by people had
Speaker 1: really fucking hard lives. So they started the GCC. It's
Speaker 1: conflated with the Star House that comes a little bit later.
Speaker 1: It doesn't help that Sylvie and Marsha are both unreliable narrators,
Speaker 1: quite known for embellishing the truth. The GLF and Star
Speaker 1: rented this Gay Community Center and they use the top
Speaker 1: floor is a classroom. They taught literacy to kids who
Speaker 1: had grown up on the streets. They taught self defense,
Speaker 1: they taught history, they taught crafts, whatever people wanted, right
Speaker 1: and whatever people came by like whoever, it wasn't just
Speaker 1: for those for all comers. And then There's the Star House,
Speaker 1: which was in a much worse part of town, and
Speaker 1: it was a flophouse for street queens, and they ran
Speaker 1: it like a social center too, even though there was
Speaker 1: like no for a while, there's no running water, and
Speaker 1: for a while, there's no heat. For while, there is
Speaker 1: no electricity, and stuff like that. And at this place
Speaker 1: they offered food and childcare to the community around them
Speaker 1: as well. Right, they're like, hey, we're hanging out here
Speaker 1: all day, like you can leave your kids with us,
Speaker 1: which is like kind of wild to think about, but
Speaker 1: it was like a really important thing for the community
Speaker 1: that they were in and their attitude about it. I'll
Speaker 1: just quote Sylvia Rivera in an interview with Queer historian
Speaker 1: Leslie Feinberg quote, we fed people, in clothed people. We
Speaker 1: kept the building going. We went out and hustled the streets.
Speaker 1: We paid the rent. We didn't want the kids out
Speaker 1: in the streets hustling. They would go out and rip
Speaker 1: off food. There was always food in the house and
Speaker 1: everyone had fun. Later, we had a chapter in New York,
Speaker 1: one in Chicago, one in California and England. It lasted
Speaker 1: two to three years. Yeah, and they you know it
Speaker 1: was lit by candles half the time. They had to
Speaker 1: figure out all the plumbing and all the electrical themselves.
Speaker 1: They ate spaghetti dinners when they were like feeling rich,
Speaker 1: they'd have sausage in the morning. And they fought their
Speaker 1: own drug addictions. This was a major problem in Manhattan
Speaker 1: and New York City at the time. They often failed
Speaker 1: to fight their own drug addictions. Often people died in
Speaker 1: the attempt of fighting these addictions. It's the kind of
Speaker 1: history that's easy to romanticize, but it's also dangerous to romanticize.
Speaker 1: Like they're amazing, they're revolutionaries, and they had some of
Speaker 1: the hardest lives that anyone in the US has ever lived,
Speaker 1: and they were far from perfect, and they did so
Speaker 1: fucking much. They were also kind of religious in their way.
Speaker 1: They were mostly Catholic, but not in the Catholic way
Speaker 1: that you get in church. They were more folk Catholic,
Speaker 1: which is my favorite kind. Interesting to quote Sylvia, we'd
Speaker 1: all get together to pray to our saints before we
Speaker 1: go out hustling. A majority of the queens were Latin,
Speaker 1: and we believed in an emotional, spiritualistic religion. We have
Speaker 1: our own saints. Saint Barbara the patron Saint of homosexuality,
Speaker 1: Saint Michael, the Archangel Lacaridad de Cobra, the Madonna of Gold,
Speaker 1: and Saint Martha, the Saint of transformation. Saint Martha had
Speaker 1: once transformed herself into a snake, so to her we'd pray,
Speaker 1: please let them, don't let them see through the mask,
Speaker 1: let us pass as women and save us from harm.
Speaker 1: And to the other three, we'd kneel before our altar
Speaker 1: of candles and pray. Saint Barbara, Saint Michael, Lecarada de Cobra,
Speaker 1: we know we are doing wrong, but we got to live,
Speaker 1: and we got to survive, so please help us. Bring
Speaker 1: us money tonight, protect us and keep evil away. We
Speaker 1: kept the sword of Saint Barbara at the front door
Speaker 1: and the sword of Saint Michael at the back door
Speaker 1: to ward off evil. We were watched over and for
Speaker 1: anyone who's I had to look it up. The sort
Speaker 1: of Saint Barbara's or Saint George are not sadly literal swords,
Speaker 1: but they are potted plants.
Speaker 2: Just cool too. The potted plant is mightier than the sword.
Speaker 1: As they say, Yeah, yeah, specifically and this particular context,
Speaker 1: it probably worked better. Yeah, and the two also joined
Speaker 1: the Young Lord's Party, who we covered extensively in the
Speaker 1: past four parter about them, and they just fucking ruled.
Speaker 1: It's a Puerto Rican revolution organization, and at one point
Speaker 1: that organization provided security for Sylvia Rivera when there was
Speaker 1: like all kinds of its late as constantly i mean
Speaker 1: death threats against her, and it was like contentious in
Speaker 1: the We talked about this in the Young Lord's episode,
Speaker 1: but it was like contentious. Some of them were like, oh,
Speaker 1: we don't, we don't know about trans people. But eventually
Speaker 1: they're like, no, we do, and we will take care
Speaker 1: of and protect this person, you know. And they met
Speaker 1: the Young Lords and Sylvia Rivera's Puerto Rican but they
Speaker 1: met the Young Lords because there was a demonstration against
Speaker 1: police repression that the Young Lords put on and this
Speaker 1: is the first time that a star banner was carried
Speaker 1: in a demonstration. And then after the demo they were like, yeah,
Speaker 1: sign me up. They were also friends with the Panthers
Speaker 1: and Hue P. Newton, and they also pushed the envelope
Speaker 1: about trans acceptance in the GLF and the GAA. They
Speaker 1: also pushed like a lot of people are like, oh,
Speaker 1: people had a hard time with them because of the
Speaker 1: trans thing. That's part of it. People had a hard
Speaker 1: time with them because of the class thing. Both of
Speaker 1: these things, right wow, Because like, for example, the gay
Speaker 1: dances were by donation. The GAA, the glf ones and
Speaker 1: start decided rightly that as homeless folks they should not
Speaker 1: have to donate, right yeah, And so this like caused tension.
Speaker 1: Oh you're supposed to donate, and they're like, fuck you,
Speaker 1: or we fucking do what we want. You know, they
Speaker 1: marched in all the demos all the time for all
Speaker 1: of the issues.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 1: One of their chants, which absolutely does not rhyme, is
Speaker 1: go left, go gay, go pick up the gun.
Speaker 2: That doesn't even hit like the you're not hitting the
Speaker 2: the the candor either the cadence and the cadence right either.
Speaker 1: I know, And I'm pretty sure it was in English.
Speaker 1: I like thought it through in Spanish and like, no,
Speaker 1: I think this is an English language chant that just whatever,
Speaker 1: it's hard as fuck, go off.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Trans people did not have a perfect easy time in
Speaker 1: the movement. The street kids and particular, they were often
Speaker 1: used as cannon fodder, basically because they were willing to
Speaker 1: be directly confrontational because they were used to short, hard
Speaker 1: lives of conflict. So when they needed someone to like,
Speaker 1: go fight the cops, the street kids are always willing
Speaker 1: to go fight the cops, right, And this was taken
Speaker 1: advantage of us sometimes within the movement, but overall the
Speaker 1: GOLF and then even the less radical GAA. They stuck
Speaker 1: with protecting the street queens and specifically, and this is
Speaker 1: contention because of modern politics, they stuck with protecting the
Speaker 1: T and LGBT when push came to shove. And you
Speaker 1: know what else protects you? If the ad is for LifeLock,
Speaker 1: I guess.
Speaker 2: Uh, that'd be maybe LifeLock.
Speaker 1: You know who else had trans people's back was Reagan
Speaker 1: whose gold coins by can we revisionist to one of
Speaker 1: the people who saw that, No, that would be bad.
Speaker 2: I guess.
Speaker 1: When I first started writing this, I was like, and
Speaker 1: then I'll get up and get into act up and
Speaker 1: the AIDS crisis and I'm like, that is going to
Speaker 1: be its own major thing to drive into amen. So
Speaker 1: if this is an ad for Reagan, I can't make
Speaker 1: a joke about it. He was a monster and has
Speaker 1: a lot of blood on his hands. Fortunately he's dead,
Speaker 1: but we don't have a lot of control over our advertisers.
Speaker 2: We do not, unfortunately.
Speaker 1: So here's some ads.
Speaker 2: And we're back. Yay.
Speaker 1: So the GAA and Star they pushed New York City
Speaker 1: to add LGBT folks to an existing Equal Rights Act.
Speaker 1: This was like their big legal campaign that they worked
Speaker 1: on for a very long time. And the city immediately,
Speaker 1: of course, did what it always does, which was like, well,
Speaker 1: you drop the T from the LGBT and we'll talk
Speaker 1: about it, you know. To be clear, they still wouldn't
Speaker 1: have done it, as we'll get to, but you know,
Speaker 1: they are like, oh, you want to you want to
Speaker 1: ditch the weirdos, you know, and a minority of the
Speaker 1: GAA was like, yeah, let's drop the transvestites from the bill.
Speaker 1: To be clear about language, I've probably talked about this
Speaker 1: at other times in the past, but like, transvestite is
Speaker 1: not a word that most people use anymore. I personally
Speaker 1: don't see it as slurry to identify as a transvestite,
Speaker 1: but it is.
Speaker 2: It is the.
Speaker 1: Language that people were using at the time, and it
Speaker 1: specifically tends to refer to men wearing women's clothes. All
Speaker 1: of this gets quotes, but you know, whatever anyway, everything
Speaker 1: is all mixed up in different ways at different times.
Speaker 1: So they were like, hey, drop the drop the transvestites,
Speaker 1: and GAA was like, no, we're sticking to our guns.
Speaker 1: They've always been with us. One member said quote, we
Speaker 1: would not play the game of well we could pass
Speaker 1: pass it if we eliminate these people. In fact, the
Speaker 1: first arrest in the GAA's history was Sylvia Rivera, who
Speaker 1: is arrested while getting signatures for the petition for the
Speaker 1: Gay Rights Bill, which is last week in our Newsies episode,
Speaker 1: we talked about how one of the black newsies was
Speaker 1: arrested for passing out of like just literally a flyer.
Speaker 1: It's like the same kind of shit, nothing ever fucking changes.
Speaker 1: The NYPD is the crew the villain in both of
Speaker 1: these things, seventy years apart, where they're like, oh, look
Speaker 1: a person the color doing something is absolutely free speech.
Speaker 1: We're going to arrest them.
Speaker 2: Classic.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So the GLF and the GAA both flooded the
Speaker 1: courtroom in her defense. They stood up for her. The
Speaker 1: GAA paid her legal fees, and eventually her charges were dropped.
Speaker 1: The hearings for the bill itself carried on for a while.
Speaker 1: During one hearing, the city tried hard to transbate the
Speaker 1: rest of the gays and dropping trans folks. Cops tried
Speaker 1: to bar drag queens from entering the courtroom. I think
Speaker 1: they were like, oh, you're not dressed appropriately for court.
Speaker 1: As my best bet. Angry gays surrounded their quote half
Speaker 1: sisters this was non derogatory term, and forced them to
Speaker 1: let the drag queens sit in the front row. The
Speaker 1: city councilors were like, yeah, but what if men this
Speaker 1: is some nothing's ever changed shit. They were like, yeah, well,
Speaker 1: if we protect trans people, what if men in dresses
Speaker 1: use the women's room?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 1: No, yeah, And they pointed to one woman who just
Speaker 1: come out of the women's room and We're like, what
Speaker 1: this is their quote? What about that thing coming out
Speaker 1: of the bathroom there? So that woman, June Bartel, who
Speaker 1: I think was a trans woman, squatted down, lifted up
Speaker 1: her skirts and said, how can you tell if I'm
Speaker 1: a man or a woman?
Speaker 2: Oh? Man?
Speaker 1: And I don't know if there was like underwear or
Speaker 1: underneath that. I don't know exactly what happened here, which
Speaker 1: is not the first time in researching this in this
Speaker 1: podcast history where a trans woman has lifted her skirts
Speaker 1: the court to be like, fine, if you care so
Speaker 1: much about junk, here's my fucking junk.
Speaker 2: Here's my fucking junk. Yeah, hunk.
Speaker 1: So that this caused a near riot in the courtroom
Speaker 1: when this happened, And this has started by them calling
Speaker 1: an adult a thing right by using the bathroom that
Speaker 1: they were less likely to get murdered for using, because
Speaker 1: that's the other thing, right, The reason that I mean, well,
Speaker 1: the reason that women use the women's room is it's labeled.
Speaker 1: And I remember at one point being like, well, there's
Speaker 1: this is when I was just a just a quote
Speaker 1: transvestite or whatever, identify as a man who wore dresses
Speaker 1: or whatever, and I'd be like, name Margaret. It was
Speaker 1: all a very confused time in my life. When I
Speaker 1: was younger, I'd be like, well, I look at the drawing,
Speaker 1: and the drawing is of me, but the gender is
Speaker 1: the wrong, you know, like like right, like whatever, it's
Speaker 1: not safe for people to whatever. I remember, okay, we
Speaker 1: actually just said, like, you know, a different. At different
Speaker 1: points in my life, I pass or don't pass in
Speaker 1: different ways. And I remember when I hit the point
Speaker 1: at which there was no safe bathroom because like, if
Speaker 1: I have like a beard and I'm in a skirt,
Speaker 1: I can use the men's room. And everyone's like, oh whatever,
Speaker 1: you know, sure, But I remember the point, you know,
Speaker 1: I was at a show and I went into the
Speaker 1: men's room and everyone's staring at me, and I'm like, oh, right,
Speaker 1: because I don't look like a man. And then I'm like,
Speaker 1: but I don't look like a woman. There is no
Speaker 1: safe place for me to urinate at this show anyway.
Speaker 2: That's an aside.
Speaker 1: So Sonia riot in the courtroom. Queens are rushing down
Speaker 1: the stairs. The cops rush in, right, and they're like,
Speaker 1: and so queens start rushing down the stairs and they
Speaker 1: bowl the riot cups. So CoP's over, and they like
Speaker 1: tumble down the stairs because they're wearing too much stuff.
Speaker 1: Sylvia Rivera jumps off the second floor balcony at this point,
Speaker 1: like it's a punk show. By the third day of
Speaker 1: the hearing, transvestites were banned from using any restrooms great
Speaker 1: and the bill was defeated. It took until nineteen eighty
Speaker 1: six before it passed at all, and it was passed
Speaker 1: without protections or trans people. This is like my argument
Speaker 1: about by like even without adding even without trans people
Speaker 1: in the bill. It took fifteen sixteen more years before
Speaker 1: New York was ready for it. It took another sixteen years.
Speaker 1: It took until two thousand and two before trans people
Speaker 1: to have legal protections under the Equal Rights Act in
Speaker 1: New York City. More than anything, Star fought for prisoners,
Speaker 1: especially LGBT prisoners and street youth, at demonstrations but also
Speaker 1: testifying in every hearing they could, and they won a
Speaker 1: lot of these things. They won educational rights for the
Speaker 1: young prisoners on Rikers Island, more than sixty percent of
Speaker 1: whom at the time we were awaiting trial without being
Speaker 1: able to afford bail. That is still a problem today.
Speaker 1: There's like people who die on Rikers Island because they
Speaker 1: got I don't have the details in front of me.
Speaker 1: It was like a kid who like maybe stole a
Speaker 1: backpack or something, who fucking died on Rikers as a teenager, And.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I'm familiar with that story.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And it's like, we theoretically have a lie Le
Speaker 1: system in which you are not a guilty person before
Speaker 1: you've been convicted, right theory, But if you're poor, it
Speaker 1: doesn't matter. A lot of Star themselves spent time in
Speaker 1: Rikers Island, and Sylvia was just fucking cool. Like mostly
Speaker 1: this is an episode about like movements, right, Like some
Speaker 1: of my episodes are more movement, some of them are
Speaker 1: more people. It is like mostly a movement one. But
Speaker 1: Sylvia just fucking ruled. When someone asked her to run
Speaker 1: for office in the GAA, she said quote, I would
Speaker 1: rather be someone who can stand here and argue with
Speaker 1: the hierarchy, but than be the hierarchy.
Speaker 2: And she was.
Speaker 1: It's true she was the president of Star, but she
Speaker 1: had tried to convince Marsha to be the president and
Speaker 1: Marsha refused it. Because I had to figure out a
Speaker 1: way to shoehorn Tolkien into the episode. It reminds me
Speaker 1: of a quote by him, quote the most improper job
Speaker 1: of any men, even saints, is bossing other men. Not
Speaker 1: one in a million is fit for it, and least
Speaker 1: of all those who seek the opportunity. The argument being that, no,
Speaker 1: the only good leader is a leader who does not
Speaker 1: seek out to be a leader. That's good, yeah, like
Speaker 1: not attracted to power, you know, sure, but seeing it
Speaker 1: as a burden is a very different thing. And I
Speaker 1: think that she showed that very well. She also drew
Speaker 1: the earliest version that I've ever found of what's now
Speaker 1: the trans symbol, you know, the like circle with the
Speaker 1: male female and androg and gene sign coming off of it. Yeah, like,
Speaker 1: I can't source that. In nineteen seventy two, she wrote
Speaker 1: a piece called Transvestites Your Half Sisters and Half Brothers
Speaker 1: of the Revolution, which is an awesome title, and it
Speaker 1: used a symbol that was like three andrew gene symbols
Speaker 1: overlapping an event diagram, and it just like looks like
Speaker 1: that symbol. It's the three arrows coming out.
Speaker 2: And I don't know.
Speaker 1: I've found people on the internet claiming that the symbol
Speaker 1: the trans symbol comes from a radio show in two
Speaker 1: thousand and two. This is not true. By summer two
Speaker 1: thousand and two, I already had a hoodie with the
Speaker 1: trans symbol silk screened on it, even though I was
Speaker 1: a straight boy. I was very confused kid named Margaret
Speaker 1: wearing dresses. And I'd learned this symbol from a street
Speaker 1: a street queen, basically a trans woman named Jennifer had
Speaker 1: who had already had one on her black hoodie for
Speaker 1: a very long time.
Speaker 2: Interesting.
Speaker 1: I asked a bunch of friends before while was writing
Speaker 1: the script, a bunch of my friends who might know,
Speaker 1: and all of them were like, man, that symbol is
Speaker 1: just in the ether, you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's one of the I mean, I
Speaker 2: think this is one of the sadder realities of oppressed groups,
Speaker 2: is that so often their history is erased by people,
Speaker 2: you know, committing violence on them just because it's like,
Speaker 2: you know that it's this the the horrible quote is
Speaker 2: history is written by the winners, and it's so often
Speaker 2: that as we search for more of that history from
Speaker 2: people who were cast aside and not big old air
Speaker 2: quotes quotes, not traditional winners, it's like we just lose
Speaker 2: that and that is it's sad because that feels like
Speaker 2: something that is so not i mean, not crucial to
Speaker 2: a movement, but it's it's important to know your and
Speaker 2: know where they come from. Feel like it's kind of
Speaker 2: similar to the purple hand thing. It's like, is that
Speaker 2: preserved in some way? Yeah, it's like I don't.
Speaker 1: Know, No, No, that's such a That's such a good point.
Speaker 1: And a lot of the work that I end up
Speaker 1: having to do for the show is just like figuring
Speaker 1: out there's so much stuff that just is never written about,
Speaker 1: like sex workers in particular are written out of history,
Speaker 1: and or rather people's sex work is written out of
Speaker 1: history in the same way that people's queerness is written
Speaker 1: out of history, and the same way that people's radicalness
Speaker 1: of different ideological attachments. I mostly notice anarchism because of
Speaker 1: my own biases, and it's like you'll read about all
Speaker 1: these people, you know, like oh, Emma Goldman, the amazing
Speaker 1: birth control activist, which is true, but like they are
Speaker 1: entirely writing out her anarchism. And then also she herself,
Speaker 1: in her autobiography, talks about this time that she like
Speaker 1: wanted to make money for her boyfriend to shoot a guy,
Speaker 1: and so she went out to go do sex work
Speaker 1: to shoot and Andrew clay Frick, the industrialist who was
Speaker 1: killing a bunch of striking workers. It was actually all
Speaker 1: a bad idea in the end, shooting him made everything worse,
Speaker 1: but you know, I didn't know that at the time.
Speaker 1: And so she goes out and tries to get some
Speaker 1: money for it, and so she like goes into sex work.
Speaker 1: Probably in her own autobiography she's like, oh, I went out,
Speaker 1: but a guy gave me a bunch of money, did
Speaker 1: not sleep with him and said that you're not cut
Speaker 1: out for this kind of work, right, And I think
Speaker 1: the most likely thing there is that she didn't want
Speaker 1: to talk about having done sex work, like explicitly, because
Speaker 1: you don't talk about it. And so it's not just
Speaker 1: the winners as in the people who like, but it's
Speaker 1: like the winning ideologies.
Speaker 2: Right, sure, totally, totally. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Anyway, so the Starhouse, it actually only lasted nine months
Speaker 1: before one of its members turned out to have not
Speaker 1: been paying the rent and they were all evicted. I
Speaker 1: think one of the members was basically embezzling the rent.
Speaker 2: That sucks.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the best I can read. It's a little
Speaker 1: bit reading between the lines on that one. Sure, And
Speaker 1: a lot of the kids didn't survive the next year
Speaker 1: on the street. A lot of them died from drugs,
Speaker 1: a lot of them were murdered by clients. At least
Speaker 1: two of them were murdered by clients. A lot of
Speaker 1: straight men hired transsex workers because trans women are fucking hot,
Speaker 1: and then kill them later in a fit of oh no,
Speaker 1: I did a gay and yeah, and that's a thing
Speaker 1: that still when people talk about transgenocide, that's like and
Speaker 1: this is especially.
Speaker 2: True for.
Speaker 1: Trans women of color, and particularly true for trans women color.
Speaker 1: Sex workers have some of the hardest lives of anyone
Speaker 1: who lives. Shout out to the people who keep living.
Speaker 2: And keep fighting, truly shout out.
Speaker 3: So.
Speaker 1: In addition to Starr, there was also the Queen's Liberation Front,
Speaker 1: which is not about queens the borough, but queens like
Speaker 1: drag queens. It started in nineteen sixty nine by a
Speaker 1: drag queen named Lee Brewster and by a quote heterosexual
Speaker 1: transvestite named Bunny Eisenhower. Is one of the things that like,
Speaker 1: even back then, people are like, wait, I don't understand
Speaker 1: some of you sleep with women and some of you
Speaker 1: sleep with men, you know. And in the movement people
Speaker 1: are like, yeah, like actually like bisexuality the invisible, the
Speaker 1: invisible part of LGBT, Like they were actually there the
Speaker 1: whole time, and actually all of their papers were like
Speaker 1: bisexuality rules, bisexuality is great. You can be full gay,
Speaker 1: you can be bisexual. Like it's fine, you know. So
Speaker 1: the Queen's Liberation Front published Drag Magazine, which covered areas
Speaker 1: ignored by other gay publications. They raised money for the
Speaker 1: first Pride March, the Christopher Street Liberation day, and they
Speaker 1: were to legalize cross dressing in New York City because
Speaker 1: that has been illegal in the past and will probably
Speaker 1: be illegal in the future. There are states where it
Speaker 1: would not be legal for me to give presentations about anything.
Speaker 1: There was also the Trends I know, I know. There
Speaker 1: was also the Transvestite Information Service, the TVIS, which had
Speaker 1: chapters across the country. So Star lasted until nineteen seventy three.
Speaker 1: At the Pride Parade that year, in fighting was getting
Speaker 1: the better of the movement, and Sylvia Rivera was either
Speaker 1: if any how you ask, denied a chance to speak,
Speaker 1: or if you ask the other side. She refused to
Speaker 1: abide by the rules of who gets to like how
Speaker 1: to ask for a chance to speak. She either could
Speaker 1: be easily true. She was very notorious for ignoring the
Speaker 1: rules of polite organizing and conversation. As much as I'm
Speaker 1: like she ruled. She was a very disruptive element in organizing.
Speaker 1: According to everyone, I'm fine with someone who whatever anyway. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So she stormed the stage and she took the microphone,
Speaker 1: and she gave a speech about the need to stand
Speaker 1: up for gay prisoners, and she was decrying how Pride
Speaker 1: had become white and middle class, and she was met
Speaker 1: with booze. So then a speaker came on and spoke
Speaker 1: out against drag, called Sylvia a genital male, claimed that
Speaker 1: drag was just entertainment and it was misogynist and demeaning.
Speaker 1: This was also met with booze. The crowd was divided,
Speaker 1: and later that speaker, who I don't want to name,
Speaker 1: she recanted and she wished she hadn't said that shit,
Speaker 1: and she realized that in trans people, it's part of us. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's why I'm not naming her. After that, another speaker
Speaker 1: came on from the Queen's Liberation Front and defended the queens,
Speaker 1: and basically the movement is divided at this point, and
Speaker 1: more and more the gay rights movement went towards assimilationism
Speaker 1: and towards single issue politics, which split the LGBT from
Speaker 1: each other. Right, incrementalism and reform became the words of
Speaker 1: the day. It was kind of a like, well, we're
Speaker 1: kind of getting there. Can't we just be have an
Speaker 1: easy time?
Speaker 2: You know? Yeah?
Speaker 1: And this stayed the case for five or six years
Speaker 1: until the eighties and the AIDS crisis, when it was
Speaker 1: obvious that radical action was needed and the gay movement
Speaker 1: looked back to its radical founding. That's a story for
Speaker 1: a different time. First, it's time for the story about mattresses.
Speaker 1: We haven't sold mattresses in a long time, but maybe
Speaker 1: you've missed by the future. Yes, I wonder what the
Speaker 1: ads are in the future. Let's think about what the
Speaker 1: future ads are.
Speaker 2: Oh man, Yeah, masks, breathers, Yeah, yeah, axes. I mean
Speaker 2: I'm not I'm not looking forward to our toxic future,
Speaker 2: but I am looking forward to really cool mask technology. Yeah.
Speaker 2: And just just the just the go ahead. No, and
Speaker 2: the sweet deals on these masks. Yeah, and the sweet
Speaker 2: deal the percent off if you can get by listening
Speaker 2: to this very podcast.
Speaker 1: Because you know that advertisers are going to last till
Speaker 1: the very last minute. Like I was thinking about, it's
Speaker 1: like there's going to be people evicting people for not
Speaker 1: paying their rent or their mortgage, while like we can
Speaker 1: see mushroom clouds in the distance, you know, quite literally, quite.
Speaker 2: Literally, we're kicking out into the street. No, I will
Speaker 2: literally die. Well, I don't have money, so I don't care.
Speaker 3: Yeah, buy one mask, get this free?
Speaker 2: Nice yeah. Yeah, defend yourself against ashes. Yeah, wonderful.
Speaker 1: Here's some ads, So we're back, And a lot of
Speaker 1: the research about this particular part about Star and also
Speaker 1: just GLF in general. A lot of it comes from
Speaker 1: an author I mentioned just like kind of briefly named
Speaker 1: drop named Leslie Feinberg, and I just want to like
Speaker 1: highlight her and talk about it really quick, because she
Speaker 1: is a cool person who did cool stuff, who used
Speaker 1: both she and Z pronouns, and so I'm going to
Speaker 1: kind of mix it up in the script. I first
Speaker 1: ran across here book Stonebusch Blues when I didn't even
Speaker 1: know that I was queer. This episode is going to
Speaker 1: be the most people now know about twenty year old
Speaker 1: me of anything else that I've ever recorded. And Stone
Speaker 1: Busch Blues exploded my little brain. It is a fictionalized
Speaker 1: memoir about someone transitioning from butch to trans masculine in
Speaker 1: the era before Stonewall in a working classifact family in Buffalo,
Speaker 1: New York.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: And it describes a lesbian culture of butches and fems
Speaker 1: in which a lot of the butcheres are stone butches,
Speaker 1: which meant that they give pleasure sexually but don't receive pleasure,
Speaker 1: and that's like their essentially gender and their sexual orientation
Speaker 1: and reading that helped a lot. It helped baby Margaret
Speaker 1: figure some shit out about herself. So thank you, Leslie.
Speaker 1: Rest in peace.
Speaker 2: Shout out, Leslie.
Speaker 1: Here's a quote from that book that I think is
Speaker 1: always worth bringing out. I'm not saying we'll live to
Speaker 1: see some sort of paradise, but just fighting for change
Speaker 1: makes you stronger. Not hoping for anything will kill you
Speaker 1: for sure. Take a chance. You're already wondering if the
Speaker 1: world could change, Try imagining a world worth living in,
Speaker 1: and then ask yourself if that isn't worth fighting for.
Speaker 1: You've come too far to give up on hope.
Speaker 2: Wow. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Leslie Feinberg was born in a Jewish, white working class
Speaker 1: family in nineteen forty seven in Missouri, then grew up
Speaker 1: in Buffalo, New York. Zee was a high school dropout
Speaker 1: who started work at fourteen who went on to advance
Speaker 1: gender studies more than anyone else I can name off
Speaker 1: the top of my head. Z was a big part
Speaker 1: of the move from transsexual as the primary label for
Speaker 1: folks to transgender, and the idea behind this is like
Speaker 1: moving away from the medicalization of transnests. Right. It's not
Speaker 1: saying that transsexual is like a bad word, right, It's
Speaker 1: just like, not necessarily everyone's experience because not everyone's experience
Speaker 1: is medicalized. Not everyone's going to have surgery or change
Speaker 1: their like physical sex characteristics, you know. She also spent
Speaker 1: her time organizing with radical lesbians to do anti racist work,
Speaker 1: like a group of ten of them which just go
Speaker 1: around cities covering every piece of racist graffiti they could find.
Speaker 1: In the early eighties, she went on a tour explaining
Speaker 1: the AIDS epidemic and how it is being denied by
Speaker 1: journalists and politicians. Is the organized community defense against the
Speaker 1: Klan and four gay bars and four abortion clinics. She
Speaker 1: just did it all. Z was Marxist. She edited the
Speaker 1: newspaper the World Workers Party. By the end of her life.
Speaker 1: She stayed involved in organizing and protests her entire life.
Speaker 1: Her lifelong partner, Minnie Bruce Pratt, and her were finally
Speaker 1: married in twenty eleven. Her last campaign was the campaign
Speaker 1: to free c. C. MacDonald, who was a young Minneapolis
Speaker 1: black trans woman who killed the transphobe who attacked her
Speaker 1: and then went to prison for defending herself.
Speaker 2: I can hate that shit, yeah yeah.
Speaker 1: Leslie died at sixty five of complications from various illnesses
Speaker 1: and from medical neglect because the doctors didn't know what
Speaker 1: the fuck to do with them, because I don't know,
Speaker 1: because doctors are not always medical neglect is a thing
Speaker 1: and a problem. I'm not trying to say doctors are bad.
Speaker 1: I'm saying that our medical system has problems.
Speaker 2: Yes, always good to have a healthy bit of skepticism, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: And she's not subtle about her politics, right, and I
Speaker 1: don't agree with like like, but that's not my point here.
Speaker 1: I'm not going to get into what I disagree without
Speaker 1: it about her. But her last words were remember me
Speaker 1: as a revolutionary communist.
Speaker 2: That's so sick. I know, I know, you're just like
Speaker 2: dying and you're like, never forget. It's like no one
Speaker 2: was gonna forget, actually, I mean I don't know. People
Speaker 2: probably would have been.
Speaker 1: Like, oh, really fought for trans rice And that's true, right,
Speaker 1: But like it's in this context, but we still got
Speaker 1: so much more gay liberation to talk about it. It's
Speaker 1: got drag queens drinking at the pub, it's got nuns
Speaker 1: doing the can can, mice will be unleashed, mony Python
Speaker 1: is involved. On part three, we're gonna talk about the
Speaker 1: UK Gay Liberation Front.
Speaker 2: Nice. Yeah, that's exciting. I'm stoked. Yeah. No, all of
Speaker 2: them are fun, but part three is particularly fun. Oh yay.
Speaker 1: But what else is fun is your Twitch stream and
Speaker 1: whatever else you want to shout.
Speaker 2: Out pluggables, Yeah, you all over the internet. DJ Underscore
Speaker 2: Daniel da n L. H you from me on twitch,
Speaker 2: Twitch dot tv slash dj d a n L. The
Speaker 2: most exciting thing happening on my twitch recently is that
Speaker 2: every Friday, I take a single player game that I've
Speaker 2: been meeting to beat out of my backlog and actually
Speaker 2: finish it, because lord knows, some people have books they
Speaker 2: haven't finished, some people have movies they haven't seen. I
Speaker 2: have a whole bunch of single player video games that
Speaker 2: I played for four hours and went never mind, I
Speaker 2: want to go play something else, and just never finished.
Speaker 2: And I just started Jedi Fallen Order and that game
Speaker 2: has been a lot of fun so far. I'm a
Speaker 2: big Star Wars fan and I just never got around
Speaker 2: to really giving my game a shot, and I just
Speaker 2: started that and it's been great so far. So come
Speaker 2: on by on Fridays and check me out and do that. Hell, yeah,
Speaker 2: you go.
Speaker 1: I used to never think that I would want to
Speaker 1: watch other people play video games. Yeah, it's so relaxing.
Speaker 1: It's sometimes yeah, like it really can be. It's like
Speaker 1: when your friend or your roommate or your you know,
Speaker 1: partner or something is sitting around playing video games and
Speaker 1: you get to be like, oh, no, you're gonna shoot
Speaker 1: the oh you shot the thing, and you're like, it's
Speaker 1: often very nice.
Speaker 2: It is nice. I appreciate that. Thank you for the
Speaker 2: cell on watching people play video game. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, it took me by surprise that I liked
Speaker 1: it totally. Okay, if you like tabletop role playing games,
Speaker 1: I'm kickstarting tabletop role playing game called p Number City,
Speaker 1: but I've already talked about that. You can find me
Speaker 1: on the internet Magpie kill Joy and Twitter. I did
Speaker 1: the opposite DJ Channel. I have different handles on every
Speaker 1: platform because I'm a fool. I'm Margaret Killjoy in Instagram,
Speaker 1: but I got on the Blue Sky early enough that
Speaker 1: I grabbed at Margaret and I'm like, but I want
Speaker 1: at Margaret, and so I'm at Margaret instead of at
Speaker 1: Margaret Kiljoy one Blue Sky. I hate Twitter with the
Speaker 1: fiery passion. It's also my largest platform and my ability
Speaker 1: to eat food relies on my ability to tell people
Speaker 1: about the things I'm doing. So I'm still there for now.
Speaker 1: But if it's the future, you'll also find me add
Speaker 1: Apocalypse Land, selling prepper stuff, but only in the future,
Speaker 1: not currently. Actually, there'll be a mutual aid thing. You
Speaker 1: actually can just show up and get the apocalypse stuff. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so I want to shout, yeah, pitch my future mutual
Speaker 1: aid project, which probably shouldn't have been called Apocalypse Land.
Speaker 1: People are very mad at me because it's like insensitive,
Speaker 1: because the apocalypse has been really hard on people, and
Speaker 1: how dare so anyway, Sophie, you got a plug?
Speaker 2: No good? Isn't it inherently hard on everyone? Isn't that
Speaker 2: the idea? Yeah? Yeah, no, it's I don't want to
Speaker 2: dive into the world of these people who think is problematic?
Speaker 2: Are wrong?
Speaker 1: Yeah? The discourse from the discourse future the Future Discoorse, Sophie,
Speaker 1: Can we do a podcast?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 1: But what if there was a podcast about Russian oligarchs
Speaker 1: who suddenly die?
Speaker 2: What if?
Speaker 3: Oh you could listen? Is that all hosted by.
Speaker 2: Yeah? I did say a good one and if you
Speaker 2: want to listen to it ad free, you can subscribe
Speaker 2: to cooler Zone, a subscription services that allows you to
Speaker 2: receive all of our shows ad free so that you
Speaker 2: can enjoy them at your leisure without hearing the Reagan
Speaker 2: coin stuff. Just our fun wrap arounds about reagancoinwur.
Speaker 3: Podcasts, and soon on something else. Hopefully I can announce
Speaker 3: soon for my non Apple using friends.
Speaker 2: Yeah, listen, you are heard, you are seen, worth trying
Speaker 2: to support you.
Speaker 1: And if it's the future, you can find us on
Speaker 1: shortwave radio.
Speaker 2: Yes, gab into our semi radio.
Speaker 3: Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff is a production of
Speaker 3: cool Zone Media. For more podcasts and cool Zone Media,
Speaker 3: visit our website Coolzonemedia dot com or check us out
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Speaker 3: your podcasts.