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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Savor Protection of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: I'm Annie Reese and I'm more in vocal Baum and

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Speaker 2: today we have an episode for you about piscotti.

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Speaker 1: Yes, is there any reason you were thinking about this one?

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Speaker 2: Okay, this is a little bit of a long way around,

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Speaker 2: but so, so Mother's Day is coming up, and so

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Speaker 2: I was thinking about, like like all right, like like,

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Speaker 2: what are some dishes that remind me of mother figures

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Speaker 2: in my life? And my Jewish grandmother, Gloria was kind

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Speaker 2: of famous around the family for making mandelbrote, Mandelbrote being

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Speaker 2: a very biscotti like it's German for almond bread and

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Speaker 2: it's it's a very biscotti like cookie and uh and

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Speaker 2: so yeah, so I was kind of looking into mandelbrut

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Speaker 2: and I was like, yeah, we should just do biscotti.

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Speaker 1: And so here we are, there.

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Speaker 2: We go okay, yeah, so so yeah, so this is

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Speaker 2: a type of cookie that I have deep nostalgia for.

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Speaker 2: She made, oh just just just really good ones and

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Speaker 2: would make them these huge batches, which is kind of

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Speaker 2: what you do when you're making them. And uh, and

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Speaker 2: like people would like like relatives would like low key

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Speaker 2: fight over like who got a bag from the batch

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Speaker 2: and like like if they were running low, like Gloria,

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Speaker 2: are you going to make more? And it was sort

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Speaker 2: of a whole thing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I love it. I love it when that happens

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Speaker 1: where there's like a dish, yeah, someone makes Oh I

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Speaker 1: only get it this one time. I hope I can

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Speaker 1: get secure my stash. Yeah yeah, yeah. I don't have

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Speaker 1: too much experience with piscotti.

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Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, never like at a cafe, like sitting there

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Speaker 2: with an espresso, like like having a piscatti.

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Speaker 1: Nah, I mean like maybe once. Uh, I've had it, Like,

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Speaker 1: I've definitely had it. I just don't have that much

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Speaker 1: experience with it. It does. It reminds we did an

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Speaker 1: episode on Madeleins Madeleines. Sure, yeah, I had that twinge

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Speaker 1: in the pronunciation there that I did not do correctly,

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Speaker 1: But so that that kind of reminds me of this one.

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Speaker 1: And I mean, yeah, for better or worse, most of

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Speaker 1: my memories with the Scotti are cafes, and Starbucks being

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Speaker 1: one of them.

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Speaker 2: Sure, that's a it's a It's a large chain of

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Speaker 2: cafes in the United States and elsewhere, So that makes sense.

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Speaker 1: Tracks it does, it does, dude, But I know people

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Speaker 1: are really really fond of them, and just I loved

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Speaker 1: reading about all the flavors in this one. It was fun.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I have I have a very

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Speaker 2: narrow experience of piscotti, and in general, it's like mostly

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Speaker 2: the like pure almond crunchy ki like the mondol brit

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Speaker 2: that I grew up with, but but also like maybe

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Speaker 2: a little bit of Annis in there, maybe maybe some

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Speaker 2: chocolate dipping action going on. But yeah, I tend to like,

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Speaker 2: I tend to not order them, especially if they're prepackaged

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Speaker 2: at at a cafe kind of situation, which is mostly

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Speaker 2: where I do see them, because I'm like, I'm gonna

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Speaker 2: be disappointed in this. It's not gonna be my grandma's.

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna be mad. I've never tried to make her recipe.

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Speaker 2: I she like held off on giving it to me

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Speaker 2: for really an insultingly long time.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so, and I did see a lot of recipes

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Speaker 2: as I was doing this reading that I was like, oh,

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Speaker 2: that make that would probably about what that is.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So anyway, well maybe one day maybe one day,

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Speaker 1: maybe maybe maybe, But in the meantime, I guess that

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Speaker 1: brings us to our question. Sure, biscottie. What are they?

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Speaker 2: Well, piscotti, as we are using the word in American English,

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Speaker 2: are a type of cookie that is twice baked, first

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Speaker 2: in a loaf and then in like thick crescent shaped slices,

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Speaker 2: making it a crunchy cookie treat. They are typically lightly

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Speaker 2: sweetened and flavored and studded with nuts like almonds, pistachios,

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Speaker 2: or sesame, maybe a little bit of vanilla thrown in there.

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Speaker 2: They can contain other mixins like chocolate chips or dried

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Speaker 2: fruit or cocoa powder, or maybe partially dipped in chocolate

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Speaker 2: or like spangled with icing something like that. Ideally that

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Speaker 2: the dough isn't really crispy like toast, but more like

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Speaker 2: crunchy like a good granola, all right, Like like firm

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Speaker 2: enough to stand up to being dunked in coffee or

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Speaker 2: sweet wine. But when you chew it, it's it's rich

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Speaker 2: and like almost melty, with contrasting buttery crunch from the nuts.

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Speaker 2: Maybe some crisp around the edges, sure, but yeah, it's

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Speaker 2: like it's like it's like if a digestive biscuit wanted

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Speaker 2: you to have a better time. If if y'all aren't

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Speaker 2: familiar with digestive biscuits. Picture like a like a kind

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Speaker 2: of bland Graham cracker. Mm. Yeah, okay, biscottis like it's

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Speaker 2: it's firm but comforting, like a like a good grandmama.

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Speaker 1: Oh well there you go. Yeah. Uh.

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Speaker 2: The the word the word biscotti comes from the roots

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Speaker 2: uh twice cookedcoatti.

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Speaker 1: Uh.

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Speaker 2: And what you're looking to do is to basically bake

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Speaker 2: like one big cookie and then slice that into strips

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Speaker 2: and bake those those separate mini cookies again to like

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Speaker 2: really firm them up and draw out the moisture. Traditionally,

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Speaker 2: you're using limited to zero butter or oil to make

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Speaker 2: these cookies. That the fat is going to come from

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Speaker 2: the addition of eggs and egg yolks. And this explains

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Speaker 2: how you can get this like rich, dense, crunchy but

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Speaker 2: not crispy crumb to the cookies. These days, a little

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Speaker 2: bit of leavener like baking powder is added for a

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Speaker 2: little bit more lyft. Of course, though there are lots

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Speaker 2: of different riffs on this recipe plenty of parallel types

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Speaker 2: of cookies out there in the world. Many do use

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Speaker 2: some kind of vegetable oil or butter to create like

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Speaker 2: a like a softer or more tender or more crumbly

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Speaker 2: or crispier texture, just depending on what you're going for.

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Speaker 2: Fun linguistic confusion in this one. From what I understand,

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Speaker 2: in like modern Italian biscoto being the singular or biscotti

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Speaker 2: is like a more generic term for any type of cookie,

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Speaker 2: similar to how you get biscuit in British English. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and also an Italian biscoto appears in phrases that describe

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Speaker 2: savory baked goods, like like crackers or twice baked breads.

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Speaker 1: So uh, if.

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Speaker 2: You are looking for what we Americans call biscotti in

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Speaker 2: some kind of like Italian language circumstance, the term the

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Speaker 2: term for these cookies is going to be cantucci plural

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Speaker 2: or cantuccio singular, or or maybe you're even going to

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Speaker 2: look for the diminutive canduccini meaning like like little little cantucci. Yeah, uh,

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Speaker 2: canto literally meaning corner, but in this case indicating like

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Speaker 2: like a crust or like like a little bit of bread. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: that kind of that kind of competation, so yeah, yeah canucci.

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Speaker 2: And there are all kinds of flavorings that can go

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Speaker 2: into these things a whole or perhaps rough chopped almonds

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Speaker 2: and almond extract is perhaps the most traditional, but pistachio,

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Speaker 2: pine nuts, and sesame are also common. Or other stuff

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Speaker 2: like hazelnuts or walnuts, or citrus juice or zest raisins

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Speaker 2: or chopped dried fruit like apricots or or or or

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Speaker 2: chocolate bits or coconut spices like ginger or annis or

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Speaker 2: fennel or cinnamon or allspice, vanilla or cocoa powder, or

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Speaker 2: coffee or sweet wine. I don't know, toffee chips, peanut

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Speaker 2: butter chips, fun fetti.

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Speaker 1: Whoa, that's cordless.

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Speaker 2: I mean, if you can put it in a cookie,

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Speaker 2: then go for it. Okay, yeah, all right. They are

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Speaker 2: often served alongside, uh, like like an after dinner coffee

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Speaker 2: drink or tea, or a dessert wine like vincano like

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Speaker 2: meant to be dipped into that liquid. They're also real

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Speaker 2: good for crumbling on top of other desserts or for

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Speaker 2: like like layering into a soaked type dessert like a

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Speaker 2: like a trifle. Yeah okay, yeah, and I will say

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Speaker 2: that that in American usage, biscotti is also a flavor

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Speaker 2: now and and a color, so right, yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I've seen I've seen candy. That's biscotti flavored. That's

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Speaker 1: weird that my eyebrow arch. Yeah interesting? All right, Well

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Speaker 1: what about the nutrition?

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Speaker 2: Uh, it depends on how you make them. But these

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Speaker 2: treats can have like a decent punch of protein and

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Speaker 2: good fats from the nuts, and they're often not as

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Speaker 2: sugary or fatty as other types of cookies. It's still

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Speaker 2: still a treat, you know. But treats are nice.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, yes, big fans of treats. We have a

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Speaker 1: couple of numbers for you.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I couldn't like super corroborate this data, but but

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Speaker 2: apparently the canucci market in Tuscany, where many of the

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Speaker 2: traditions around this cookie originated, the market there is worth

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Speaker 2: over thirty million euros a year. Oh risk brisk cookie market.

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Speaker 1: Love it.

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Speaker 2: And according to the same source, about sixty three percent

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Speaker 2: of Kentucci biscotti consumption takes place in Italy.

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Speaker 1: Oh well, I would love for listeners to write in

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Speaker 1: about this. Yeah, oh yeah, the culture of the scotti consumption.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah yeah.

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Speaker 2: And if you have more linguistic notes, I would love

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Speaker 2: I would love to hear them. Yeah, this is all

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Speaker 2: hearsay on my part. I mean technically, I guess everything

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Speaker 2: that we ever report is here, say, but some of

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Speaker 2: it is.

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Speaker 1: It's read say yeah, it's yes, yes, research say yes.

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Speaker 1: So we're counting on you as always, And if you've

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Speaker 1: got a favorite like flavor recipe, that'd be cool.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yes, But so we do have quite the history for you.

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Speaker 2: We do, and we are going to get into that

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Speaker 2: as soon as we get back from a quick break

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Speaker 2: for a word from our sponsors, and we're back. Thank

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Speaker 2: you sponsor, Yes, thank you.

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Speaker 1: So Yes, things like cookies, breads, and cakes, though not

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Speaker 1: as soft and fluffy as we know them today, go

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Speaker 1: way way back. We've talked about them in several episodes.

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Speaker 1: I feel like I can't remember which one it was,

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Speaker 1: but I know we've talked about an almonds based like

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Speaker 1: almond flour based dessert already.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, recently. And this isn't usually almond flour. This is

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Speaker 2: usually wheat flour with added almonds.

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Speaker 3: Hmmm.

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Speaker 1: That might be one of my brain is so like,

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Speaker 1: I feel like we've talked about this. It's like that

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Speaker 1: like every it is it is there. Yeah, yes, but okay,

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Speaker 1: A big part of this particular history comes down to yeah,

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Speaker 1: that kind of baking things twice so that they will

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Speaker 1: keep Some sources suggest that the ancient Romans figured that

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Speaker 1: out that twice making bread would make it last longer.

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Speaker 1: This is sort of one of those things where I

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Speaker 1: again feel like a bunch of people.

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Speaker 2: Probably yeah, yeah, like I, you know, even if we

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Speaker 2: might not have known for a couple thousand years that

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Speaker 2: the reason is that when you limit moisture, that limits

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Speaker 2: the ability of microbes to grow in a medium like

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Speaker 2: your bread. So so you might want to yeah, so

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Speaker 2: doing that can preserve it for a little bit longer.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, yes, yes, but that was that was a

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Speaker 1: big piece of this, was that it kept longer. So

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Speaker 1: the story goes that the first piscatti were first made

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Speaker 1: in the Tushany city of Prato in the fourteenth century,

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Speaker 1: and they were often called piscati di Prato, and they

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Speaker 1: were primarily made of almonds because almonds grew very well

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Speaker 1: in that region.

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Speaker 2: They were also one of the products that was starting

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Speaker 2: to use refined sugar, which was beginning to grow in

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Speaker 2: availability and popularity in Europe at the time.

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Speaker 1: Right, And as mentioned, they were prized at this point

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Speaker 1: because of the way they were baked. It made them

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Speaker 1: somewhat resistant to mold. It also made them pretty hard

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Speaker 1: and sturdy, so that they could travel well. They could

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Speaker 1: last on longer journeys, and even just for regular people

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Speaker 1: not on long journeys, like they just lasted longer. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and that's it cracks me up how often sailors come

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Speaker 1: over from these stories. But it was like a big thing.

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Speaker 1: People had to figure out, how can we make this

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Speaker 1: food last? Yeah, how do we see the sailor? How

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Speaker 1: do we write? Yeah? Exactly and again hearsay, read say research.

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Speaker 1: Soon sailors came to prefer these sturdy biscuits, and several

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Speaker 1: sources reported that they went on to inspire other similar things,

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Speaker 1: like British hardtack, which was a hard biscuit made with salt,

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Speaker 1: flour and water and then baked twice in Germany's twice

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Speaker 1: baked sweetbread skybeck. I hope I'm not butchering that, yes,

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Speaker 1: twice baked. Yes. And while that was going on, biscotti

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Speaker 1: was being adapted throughout Italy using ingredients like pistaccio and sesames,

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Speaker 1: just whatever was around. In some regions, people did give

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Speaker 1: biscati a different name, which adds to the confusion.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, oh yeah, yes, we love it always. By the

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Speaker 2: mid fifteen hundreds or so, biscotti I think minus almonds

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Speaker 2: became popular in the Medici court, and then sometime in

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Speaker 2: the sixteen hundred's ish fancier types of English trifles were

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Speaker 2: being made with piscotti type cookies in sherry like wine

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Speaker 2: and then topped with custard and syllabub which is a

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Speaker 2: wine curdled cream, and maybe other stuff like sugar and

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Speaker 2: spices and citrus zest. Back to that linguistic confusion in Italian,

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Speaker 2: the word canuccio was in use by like the sixteen

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Speaker 2: nineties to refer to pretty much what we understand this

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Speaker 2: product to be today, yes.

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Speaker 1: And then more confusion. Okay. So the first known written

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Speaker 1: recipe for piscatti was the recipe hundreds of years old,

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Speaker 1: discovered in the eighteenth century, but it's often written about

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Speaker 1: as though like the recipe was lost centuries ago when

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Speaker 1: rediscovered like around now, so like it was lost toys.

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Speaker 1: But after this rediscovery, Italian started adding all kinds of

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Speaker 1: ingredients and flavors to this piscatti.

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Speaker 2: By the mid eighteen hundreds, piscotti had become like a

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Speaker 2: cultural symbol again in Italy. They were part of an

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Speaker 2: Italian display at the eighteen sixty seven Paris Expo, and

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Speaker 2: then moving into the nineteen hundreds, that's when Tuscany in

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Speaker 2: particular started really like re leaning into the almond thing

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Speaker 2: as an ingredient, right.

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Speaker 1: And then jumping ahead the nineteen nineties is when biscanti

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Speaker 1: started to really find a place in the heart of Americans.

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Speaker 1: It really coincided with the growing American taste for gourmet

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Speaker 1: coffee cafes and the desire to have something to dunk

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Speaker 1: into that gourmet coffee. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and the I mean the the like Italian ness

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Speaker 2: of espresso and all of that kind of like cultural

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Speaker 2: borrowing an adaptation that was going on at that time.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Gourmet magazine declared biscatti the cookie of the nineties as

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Speaker 2: of nineteen ninety two, And there was this really great

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Speaker 2: lead in the Washington Post at the time. The writer said,

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Speaker 2: in the beginning, there were donuts to compliment coffee. Next

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Speaker 2: came muffins, huge muffins. Then there was a brief flurry

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Speaker 2: of scoones. Now from Italy comes piscotti, a flurry of

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Speaker 2: sco brief flurry of very brief.

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Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, that is so funny.

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Speaker 2: You've got a good, You've got a good nineteen nineties.

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Speaker 2: I do quote about piscotti too.

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Speaker 1: Yes, I was not expecting to find this one, and

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Speaker 1: I just had to include it. It does include some

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Speaker 1: pronunciations that I'm gonna.

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Speaker 2: Do my best. Okay, okay, here we go.

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Speaker 1: Yes, all right, so here we go with this quote

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Speaker 1: from nineteen ninety three from the New York Times, and

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Speaker 1: it was specifically about a biscotti variation called the San

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Speaker 1: Martino biscatti quote. The author of Il Folklore Siciliano wrote

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Speaker 1: that piscatti di San Martino were originally falc in shape

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Speaker 1: and descended from the faust shaped pocaccier carried in the

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Speaker 1: Greek dominated Sicilian town of Enna during the Thesmaphoria, a

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Speaker 1: fertility festival in honor of Demeter. These Sicilian cookies were

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Speaker 1: originally in a reverent reminder of the member of San Martino.

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Speaker 1: Missus Field says, at some point over the centuries, the

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Speaker 1: biscatti took on a female form. As for the horns,

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Speaker 1: they may be reminders, missus Field says, of the horns

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Speaker 1: that rambunctious boys would paint on deserving houses during Saint

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Speaker 1: Martin's revelries on the Italian mainland. Now that took a

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Speaker 1: lot of turns, didn't it that.

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Speaker 2: Certainly, I'm just.

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Speaker 1: An innocent food podcaster. And then all.

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Speaker 2: And then the bunch of yeah left turn at sicily

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Speaker 2: for sure in that one. Uh, I mean cool, I

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Speaker 2: mean yeah, you know, it's it's just funny things look

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Speaker 2: like things. And we have talked many times before about

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Speaker 2: how desserts, especially during festivals especially wind up being interestingly shaped.

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Speaker 1: They sure do. Sure, Oh heck, I'm always like exactly

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Speaker 1: how peg are we? Oh heck?

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Speaker 2: Oh dear Well, anyway, in twenty eleven, a group of

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Speaker 2: Tuscan cantucci producers formed up an association and started to

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Speaker 2: campaign to receive like a protected geographic indication for almond biscotti.

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Speaker 2: They finally succeeded in twenty sixteen.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, good for them, Yeah, good for them. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: this has been quite the journey that the Scottie the

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Speaker 1: Scottie story. But I'm sure you listeners have some thoughts

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Speaker 1: about this one, so.

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Speaker 2: I really want to hear in yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.

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Speaker 2: If this is like also a nostalgic product for you

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Speaker 2: in some way, or some similar cookie is, then please

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Speaker 2: do write in.

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Speaker 1: Yes please do. But in the meantime that is what

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Speaker 1: we have to say about the Scotti from now.

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Speaker 2: It is. We do have some listener mail for you, though,

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Speaker 2: and we are going to get into that as soon

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Speaker 2: as we get back from one more quick break forward

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Speaker 2: from our sponsors.

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Speaker 3: We're back, Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you, and we're

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Speaker 3: back with listen. Oh yeah, nostalgic Wiscotti book.

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Speaker 1: Who speaking of Christine, wrote, I just listened to your

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Speaker 1: episode on juice boxes in Oh the nostalgia. They were

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Speaker 1: a huge part of my childhood in Australia in the

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Speaker 1: eighties and nineties as well. They have been a staple

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Speaker 1: in Australian lunchboxes since then, particularly as you can freeze

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Speaker 1: them so you get an icebrick. My fondest recollections are

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Speaker 1: the arguments over what they should be called at National

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Speaker 1: Girl Guide events. It was always a shock to discover

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Speaker 1: other states called them different names. In New South Wales,

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Speaker 1: for instance, we called them papas. Victorians and Tasmanians called

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Speaker 1: them primas. Queenslanders called them Goldies after Golden Circle the manufacturer,

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Speaker 1: while Western and South Australians were very boring and tended

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Speaker 1: to call them Jews cartans. I have it on good

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Speaker 1: authority that the arguments continue at Guide and Scout events.

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Speaker 1: I love it. I love it. It's true like little

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Speaker 1: linguis stick differences.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that really perpetuates, and like people look at you

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Speaker 2: so weird.

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Speaker 1: Yes, so strange, like what are you talking about? I

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Speaker 1: love it. I love how juice cartons? Is this one?

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Speaker 1: That's yeah, that's so good.

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Speaker 2: I mean, why not it?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, very smart to use them as a ice block.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, right? Heck, jan, or have we been pronouncing

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Speaker 2: this wrong the whole time? Is it? Young? You let

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Speaker 2: us know? Anyway, he wrote back in twenty thirteen, my

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Speaker 2: husband and I made our first trek to Disney World.

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Speaker 2: Our travel agent got us a great rate at the

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Speaker 2: Animal Kingdom Lodge, so we grabbed it. Downstairs in the

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Speaker 2: jumbo house portion of a lodge, there is a fantastic

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Speaker 2: place called Boma. It's a Moroccan Tanjean restaurant, and we

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Speaker 2: had no idea it was there, because no one told

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Speaker 2: us during our entire stay, and it's basically hidden. The

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Speaker 2: night before we were to leave, we found it. This

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Speaker 2: place is one. It's an all you care to eat

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Speaker 2: buffet of glorious food of African origin. Remind me to

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Speaker 2: send you their not encrusted salmon recipe. It's wonderful. Anyway,

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Speaker 2: we fell in love with the food from this restaurant

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Speaker 2: so much that we bought a book called Easy Tangein.

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Speaker 2: When we got back home, we just happened to run

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Speaker 2: across it at us or La Tub. Yes, this is

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Speaker 2: the letter where I'm dropping all kinds of free advertising

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Speaker 2: from these places because they're amazing. My husband and I

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Speaker 2: basically cooked tangin and Moroccan food for months. This book

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Speaker 2: has the following Harisa recipe, which I live by and attached. Yes,

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Speaker 2: is an amazing sounding Harrisa recipe.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yes, as Hyss and I have been to this

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Speaker 1: restaurant many times. It is one of my favorites as well.

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Speaker 2: Is that the one that you brought me and our

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Speaker 2: buddy Sarah to you that one time?

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Speaker 1: I believe so. I think so because it's a must.

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Speaker 1: Hally Frye a friend of the show turned me onto

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Speaker 1: it and was like, you got to go for brunch

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Speaker 1: and you got to get the watermelon Ryan salad, and

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Speaker 1: of course you know everything about this, so I do,

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Speaker 1: ye did, And now yeah, it's a delicious must so

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Speaker 1: much food though, oh my god, it's an endeavor.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I think we were there for dinner, and I don't

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Speaker 2: think it was a buffe. I don't think we did

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Speaker 2: a buffet, but I remember all the food that we

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Speaker 2: had in the parks actually being very good, which is

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Speaker 2: weird to me because like my experience as a child

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Speaker 2: was not that. Right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, for sure, but yeah, hard same. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: it is delicious, and this cookbook sounds delicious, and I

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Speaker 1: want to make all of these things.

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Speaker 2: Oh oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I've I've recently been going

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Speaker 2: back through our friend Halla Hassan's book in Bebie's Kitchen

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Speaker 2: that we talked with her on the show about and

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Speaker 2: doing some recipes from that, and they're all so good. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: so good. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Us, Well, thanks for all the recommendations, yes, and thanks

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Speaker 1: to both of these listeners for writing. If you would

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Speaker 1: like to write to us, you can. Our email is

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Speaker 1: hello at sabrepod dot com. But we are also on

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Speaker 1: social media.

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Speaker 2: You can find us on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram at

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Speaker 2: saber pod and we do hope to hear from you.

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Speaker 2: Savor is production of iHeartRadio. Four more podcasts from My

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Speaker 2: Heart Radio you can visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

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Speaker 2: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Thanks as

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00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:30,520
Speaker 2: always to our super producers Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard.

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Speaker 2: Thanks to you for listening, and we hope that lots

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Speaker 2: more good things are coming your way.