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Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left This podcast.

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Speaker 1: My guest today is keyboard is Steve Woor Karl, Steve,

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Speaker 1: you started off as a drummer.

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Speaker 2: Right, well, yeah, I'm not in a very serious sense.

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Speaker 2: We all started off at drums just because that was

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Speaker 2: always Drums were laying around, sticks were laying around, pads

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Speaker 2: were laying around. So yeah, I spent some times at

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Speaker 2: the drum at some time at the drums, but I

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Speaker 2: would never there was never a time where I called

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Speaker 2: myself a drummer.

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Speaker 3: Okay, let's go back. Your father was a professional drummer.

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Speaker 3: Tell me about that.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely. Yeah. My old man was a was a bebop drummer.

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Speaker 2: Was where his heart was for us, you know, especially

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Speaker 2: for me. Before the Beatles, it was all Miles Davis quintets,

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Speaker 2: you know, and you know, a few big bands, some Coltrane.

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Speaker 2: It was mostly jazz in our household. And my dad

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Speaker 2: played at the with Hartford Symphony every weekend, so I

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Speaker 2: was exposed to some classical music, you know, but it

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Speaker 2: was mostly he was he was a jazzer.

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Speaker 3: You know, and he was earning a living as a

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Speaker 3: player when you lived in Connecticut.

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Speaker 2: You know, he where he went to work every day

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Speaker 2: was this drum shop where he taught every day. That

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Speaker 2: was kind of his day. Gig was teaching at this

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Speaker 2: drum shop where his teacher, that his teacher owned, and

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Speaker 2: they you know, and his teacher helped him get gigs

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Speaker 2: right away, you know, society stuff what they called casuals,

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Speaker 2: you know, weddings whatever. But yeah, he always he only

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Speaker 2: did music for a living his entire life.

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Speaker 3: And did your mother work outside the home.

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Speaker 2: No, not at all. She was a stay at home mom.

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Speaker 3: Well, you know, usually the life of a drummer, the

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Speaker 3: income is challenging. What was it like growing up?

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Speaker 2: You know, it was one of those things in those days. Yes,

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Speaker 2: it was very challenging. I was brought up in the

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Speaker 2: I was born in the projects in Hartford, and but

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Speaker 2: it wasn't you know, we were never hungry or anything

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Speaker 2: like that. There's no you know, sob story there. I

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Speaker 2: seem to have everything I needed and wanted. We had

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Speaker 2: Christmases and you know, life was good.

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Speaker 3: You know, how old were you when the family moved

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Speaker 3: to California.

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Speaker 2: I was just turning nine. We moved, we landed in

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Speaker 2: Burbank in nineteen sixty six, and I in August of

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Speaker 2: sixty six, and I turned nine in September, the beginning

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Speaker 2: of the year.

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Speaker 3: So did you want to come to California or do

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Speaker 3: you not want to leave your friends behind?

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Speaker 2: You know? It was we were very excited about it. Actually,

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Speaker 2: my dad had come like a few months earlier. My

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Speaker 2: dad had come to kind of check it out. He

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Speaker 2: was wanting something different. He was kind of doing everything

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Speaker 2: he could do in Hartford, and he was doing okay,

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Speaker 2: you know, as far as a professional musician goes, he

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Speaker 2: was doing all right. But he came out to California

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Speaker 2: to see one of his childhood friends, Amo Richards, who

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Speaker 2: was doing very well here in the studios, especially in

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Speaker 2: the film studios. Some record stuff. But what did amol do?

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Speaker 2: Amo was a percussionist in the studios, okay, doing records

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Speaker 2: and mostly movies, mostly film stuff. And Amo was doing

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Speaker 2: very well. He was working every day in the film

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Speaker 2: studios and like I said, some records. And my dad

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Speaker 2: followed him for a week. He just went to every

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Speaker 2: gig he that Amo had, and Amo worked every day.

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Speaker 2: My dad followed him around and saw what was expected

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Speaker 2: that you you know, like say, you know, in the

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Speaker 2: symphony he could play mallet parts, but he got to

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Speaker 2: You could take those home and practice them. But in

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Speaker 2: the studios you had maybe one pass through and then

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Speaker 2: you had to nail those Tom and Jerry's xylophone parts.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes they could be very difficult in the film studio

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Speaker 2: and you had to nail it. You were there with

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Speaker 2: an eightpiece orchestra. It was very different than like my

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Speaker 2: studio career. You know, there are a lot of other

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Speaker 2: people playing at the same time and you had to

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Speaker 2: nail that stuff. It was very high pressure. But he

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Speaker 2: felt he could do it, and he moved the family,

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Speaker 2: the wife and four kids. We moved across the country

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Speaker 2: to become you know, for him to become a a

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Speaker 2: freelance studio musician. And he did really well, really right

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Speaker 2: away he did well. So yeah, things took off for

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Speaker 2: him pretty quick.

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Speaker 3: Okay, let's talk about his upbringing. Where was he born.

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Speaker 2: Hertford, Connecticut?

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Speaker 3: And were his parents born in America or born in

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Speaker 3: the so called Old Country?

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Speaker 2: No, they were definitely Old Country. His father was Calabrese

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Speaker 2: and his mother was from Napoli, Neapolitan, you know, they

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Speaker 2: were both southern Italians. And his mother never learned English.

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Speaker 2: I never heard her speak English, but his father was

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Speaker 2: mostly a carpenter and also a drummer and a trumpet player.

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Speaker 2: Would play a lot in these Italian marching bands, which

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Speaker 2: were a big deal back in the day. And that's

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Speaker 2: what my dad first did, was play play snare drum

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Speaker 2: in these Italian marching bands in Hertford.

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Speaker 3: And when you moved to California, were they still alive?

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Speaker 2: Yes, very much so. They were alive for quite a while. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: And did they follow you out here or did they

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Speaker 3: stay in.

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Speaker 2: Not at all. Not. They're all as a matter of fact,

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Speaker 2: all my cousins, everyone is still there in Connecticut. I'm

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Speaker 2: going to see them in a couple months. I'm going

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Speaker 2: to go visit. You know, they're all there. My mom's

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Speaker 2: family was from Maine, and my dad's they're all in

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Speaker 2: the general Hartford area and still are. Do you know

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Speaker 2: how your parents met, Yes, I do know how my

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Speaker 2: parents met. My dad. My mom was even though she

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Speaker 2: was born in Maine, she was taking she was a floutist.

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Speaker 2: She was taking flute at this music college in Hartford.

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Speaker 2: And my dad, even though he didn't have a college

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Speaker 2: education himself, he did some teaching at this Heart School,

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Speaker 2: Heart School of Music in Hartford and he saw her

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Speaker 2: in a practice room. He saw through the window, he

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Speaker 2: saw in a practice room, and he called his best

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Speaker 2: friend over and said, that's the woman I'm gonna marry

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Speaker 2: before they even met.

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Speaker 3: And okay, so you're nine years old. You moved to

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Speaker 3: California to where in Los Angeles.

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Speaker 2: Burbank, Burbank, California.

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Speaker 3: And what was Burbank like then compared to now?

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Speaker 2: You know, it's was pretty much the same. I got

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Speaker 2: to tell you. You know, Burbank maybe you know it

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Speaker 2: gets a bad rap and it's the valley and all

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Speaker 2: that stuff, But for us, it was the Promised Land.

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Speaker 2: It was this bedroom community for people who worked on film.

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Speaker 2: And you know, this is nineteen sixty six. The Monkeys

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Speaker 2: were filming their TV show down the street and they

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Speaker 2: would go tooling around town and the Monkey Mobile. You know,

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Speaker 2: I was nine, So there was this nine year you know,

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Speaker 2: what we come to know now is this nine year

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Speaker 2: awakening that kids go through where you your eyes are

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Speaker 2: finally really wide open to life. And it was hitting me,

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Speaker 2: hitting us all like a ton of bricks. We loved it.

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Speaker 2: We loved it. It was very exciting. And like I said,

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Speaker 2: my dad, right away was working, so he right away

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Speaker 2: was you know, doing things like doing you know, Jerry Fielding.

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Speaker 2: This composer was someone he worked for, and he was

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Speaker 2: doing the main title to a sitcom like Hogan's Hero

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Speaker 2: something we watched, so we would we'd hear, you know,

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Speaker 2: we would hear my dad on TV. He worked with

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Speaker 2: Lila Schiffrin, with someone he hooked up with very early,

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Speaker 2: who loved the way my dad played. So my dad

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Speaker 2: was on all these shows like Mission Impossible and Manics

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Speaker 2: and stuff. When these these guys were still doing TV work.

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Speaker 2: It was very very exciting, you know.

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Speaker 3: Okay, so there if we love kids in your family,

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Speaker 3: two well known brothers. Who's the fourth.

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Speaker 2: Kid, m my young my kid's sister, Jolene, And what's

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Speaker 2: she up to. She's a designer. She decorates, Uh, she

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Speaker 2: does interior design in houses. She she was very musical too.

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Speaker 2: She just kind of us three boys kind of got

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Speaker 2: all the got all the stole, all the stole, all

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Speaker 2: the thunder you know what I mean, got all the attention.

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Speaker 2: She was I was three years younger than Jeff. She

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Speaker 2: was three years younger than me, and uh, you know,

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Speaker 2: we got a lot of the attention but Joline has

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Speaker 2: always done She's always worked in uh, in the studios,

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Speaker 2: in the film, film, film, and TV world, and now

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Speaker 2: she mostly does design work in homes.

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Speaker 3: Okay, when you moved to California, you're nine, your brothers

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Speaker 3: are older. Is everybody already playing instruments?

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Speaker 2: Yes, Jeff was already quite the drummer immediately, Mike was still.

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Speaker 2: Mike was also a drummer. They had both as soon

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Speaker 2: as the Beatles came out, they both they both took

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Speaker 2: guitar lessons for a little while and Jeff let it

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Speaker 2: go after a month and Mike stuck with it a

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Speaker 2: little bit longer with guitar. And then right then Mike

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Speaker 2: took up the bass in school. And that's when Mike

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Speaker 2: started playing bass. Was right when we got there. Uh,

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Speaker 2: he took up the bass, but he took it up.

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Speaker 2: He was very quick with it. Mike was a Mike

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Speaker 2: was a great drummer too. Mike had an incredible time,

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Speaker 2: He had an incredible groove. But you know, Jeff was

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Speaker 2: just Jeff stood out from a very young age just

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Speaker 2: being something very special on drums. Everyone everyone knew that

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Speaker 2: Jeff was least something special. Uh. Yeah, and I was

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Speaker 2: already playing piano. By that point, I'd been playing piano.

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Speaker 2: I'd been taking lessons since since I was four. But

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Speaker 2: I was always a horrible student, you know. I was

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Speaker 2: always just a terrible student. But luckily my dad would

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Speaker 2: always my dad be it was a very good teacher

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Speaker 2: of drums. You know. You always taught friends, and especially

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Speaker 2: in the studio, Guys knew that my dad taught and

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Speaker 2: was really good at teaching, and they would often ask

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Speaker 2: him to teach their sons that were interested in taking drums,

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Speaker 2: and if it was a keyboard player, he'd barter with them.

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Speaker 2: He'd say, sure, I'll teach your kid if you'll teach

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Speaker 2: my kid piano, and you know, and I just would

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Speaker 2: always say yes. I never gave up. I got to

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Speaker 2: work with an incredible some incredible piano teachers over the years.

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Speaker 3: You know, Okay, your two older brothers, did they take lessons.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, Jeff took some lessons, but I would say from

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Speaker 2: what I saw that I would say that ninety percent

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Speaker 2: of Jeff's lessons were him playing along with records. There

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Speaker 2: was always a drum set set up, and there was

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Speaker 2: always a turntable and headphones right next to the drum.

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Speaker 2: Set and Jeff would spend hours upon hours playing along

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Speaker 2: to records.

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Speaker 3: And did your brothers take piano at a young age two?

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Speaker 2: No, not at all. I was the only one. I

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Speaker 2: was the only one who took And.

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Speaker 3: Do you know what the motivation was.

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Speaker 2: For me?

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Speaker 3: Well, you're four years old?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know. I went with my dad. My dad

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Speaker 2: took me. He again, he was teaching at this college.

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Speaker 2: He was teaching drums at some college, and he would

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Speaker 2: One time he took me and it was he was

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Speaker 2: teaching a drum lesson as some guy, and it was

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Speaker 2: this organ room at this college he was teaching at.

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Speaker 2: It was this room that had, like, you know, they

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Speaker 2: had to have at least ten different organs in there.

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Speaker 2: And towards the end of the lesson, I saw my

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Speaker 2: dad jump on an organ. I don't even know what

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Speaker 2: it was, but it was a Hammond. It was something

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Speaker 2: like the size of a B three or something, and

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Speaker 2: he played. He wanted his student to play along with him,

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Speaker 2: and he played this very simple see blues. He played

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Speaker 2: this blues on the Hammond for his student to play

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Speaker 2: along with him, to play, to play a jazz swing

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Speaker 2: beat along with him. And I had never seen my

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Speaker 2: father play a keyboard before then, but I heard him

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Speaker 2: play this, and I was like, we had just gotten

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Speaker 2: a piano. I had just started taking lessons with a

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Speaker 2: friend of his. But I said to him, show me

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Speaker 2: that blues. Show me I want to learn that. And

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Speaker 2: he taught to me and I played it to death.

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Speaker 3: You know, Okay, you continue to take lessons, but you

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Speaker 3: said you didn't practice.

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Speaker 2: You know, I would practice. I would start off practicing,

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Speaker 2: but as soon as it got really difficult, as soon

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Speaker 2: as the teacher would say things like Okay, that's great,

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Speaker 2: now learn it in all twelve keys, see you later,

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Speaker 2: you know, or something like that, it just would be

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Speaker 2: drudgery to me. You know, certain music that I unless

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Speaker 2: it was something I really wanted to play, it was

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Speaker 2: drudgery to me and my as bad as I wanted

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Speaker 2: to be a good keyboard player, my you know, I

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Speaker 2: think I had some undiagnosed attention deficit stuff going on.

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Speaker 2: It was very hard for me to focus as a kid.

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Speaker 2: And it wasn't until I started fifth grade and I

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Speaker 2: am in Studio City and there was another kid. I

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Speaker 2: thought I was pretty good at fifth grade, you know,

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Speaker 2: in fifth grade, but there was this other kid in

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Speaker 2: fifth grade who was a true child prodigy, was amazing

247
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Speaker 2: on piano, and we became fast friends. And he was

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Speaker 2: playing classical pieces and that was the first time I,

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Speaker 2: like was driven. I wanted to play those those pieces,

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Speaker 2: so you know, I would get to the music. And

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Speaker 2: it was the first time I felt driven. Even though

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Speaker 2: it was hard, I wanted to. I had that in

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Speaker 2: my head watching this other kid do it, and I

254
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Speaker 2: wanted to know what it felt like to be able

255
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Speaker 2: to rip off, you know, to whip off some of

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Speaker 2: these pieces and stuff like that. And I was really

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Speaker 2: driven to practice. Things went up and.

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Speaker 3: Notch and you learned how to do that stuff absolutely.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely.

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Speaker 3: Now there was this other kid in school, but if

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Speaker 3: I was going to school with you, I'd say, oh, Steve,

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Speaker 3: he's the guy who plays a piano. Or was really

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Speaker 3: just something you're doing at home?

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Speaker 2: Oh? Yeah, No, I was very involved. You know, most

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Speaker 2: of the public schools I know in California anyway, they're

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Speaker 2: all through even elementary, junior high. In high school, there

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Speaker 2: was never a piano chair in the orchestra. It was

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Speaker 2: always we played percussion. I would play percussion in the orchestras,

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Speaker 2: timpany xylophone, you know i'd be able to learn the parts,

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Speaker 2: and I would that's what you played. There was no

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Speaker 2: piano chair per se, you know, but I was always

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Speaker 2: taking lessons and always plowing away and trying.

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Speaker 3: You know, Okay, you have two older brothers. I don't

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Speaker 3: have older brothers or any brothers at all. To what

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Speaker 3: degree was your career following in the steps of your

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Speaker 3: brothers or was it independent and then you merged down

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Speaker 3: the road?

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Speaker 2: You know, it was a lot of both. Jeff, especially

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Speaker 2: because at such an early age. I mean, of course

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Speaker 2: he was playing in his bands in high school and

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Speaker 2: I went to every gig, but he got a professional

282
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Speaker 2: gig at seventeen. He didn't finish high school like myself,

283
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Speaker 2: I didn't finish high school either. Because he got a

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Speaker 2: job touring with Sonny and Chare. You know, he'd been

285
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Speaker 2: doing a couple little sessions, local stuff, small time stuff

286
00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:39,399
Speaker 2: around the valley. And David Hungate, who was playing with

287
00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:42,360
Speaker 2: Sonny and Share at the time, and this is kind

288
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Speaker 2: of right before they were really peaking in the mid

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Speaker 2: seventies early seventies there, David Hungate was did a session

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Speaker 2: with Jeff and heard him play and recommended him to

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Speaker 2: Sonny and Share, and Jeff left high school a semester

292
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Speaker 2: earlier to tour with them, and then right from that

293
00:18:05,640 --> 00:18:12,400
Speaker 2: it was just his His career trajectory was was astonishing

294
00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:17,040
Speaker 2: how fast he started doing sessions, really good sessions all

295
00:18:17,040 --> 00:18:20,040
Speaker 2: of a sudden. You know, our favorite band Steely Dan,

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Speaker 2: Jeff's doing like a whole album with him. So Jeff

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Speaker 2: was always this shining, shining example to us that it

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Speaker 2: could happen. We could. It was possible, you know, it

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Speaker 2: was right there, It was possible if we worked hard enough.

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Speaker 3: You know, Okay, that was Jeff. Jeff is older than you,

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Speaker 3: He's basically okay, so when you were now in high school,

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Speaker 3: are you playing in bands?

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Speaker 2: Absolutely? Absolutely? And then Rape Mike was just two years

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00:18:55,680 --> 00:18:59,280
Speaker 2: younger than Jeff, and Mike was also playing in bands

305
00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:02,359
Speaker 2: and in Jeff's bands in high school, and he right away,

306
00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:06,000
Speaker 2: as soon as he graduated, he started touring with bands

307
00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:09,880
Speaker 2: Michael Franks, and then Mike was with Seals and Crofts

308
00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:12,320
Speaker 2: for a lot of years right out of high school

309
00:19:12,520 --> 00:19:17,399
Speaker 2: and doing sessions and playing the Baked Potato. His career

310
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Speaker 2: took off immediately.

311
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Speaker 3: Also, you know, okay, you're younger than Jeff by three years,

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Speaker 3: what kind of band are you playing in in high school?

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Speaker 2: Well, you know, the very first stuff that Jeff did,

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Speaker 2: like in junior high was absolutely like soul, these kind

315
00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:42,720
Speaker 2: of funk bands, playing Sam and Dave covers, playing covers

316
00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:46,400
Speaker 2: like that in high school him and when he met

317
00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:53,760
Speaker 2: David Page, his partner in Toto, they right away there.

318
00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:57,600
Speaker 2: They loved Joe Cocker had a band, Mad Dogs and Englishmen.

319
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Speaker 2: There was a record, there was a movie. They had

320
00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:05,760
Speaker 2: double drums, Jim Keltner and Jim Gordon, and these guys

321
00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:08,680
Speaker 2: happened to be Jeff's hero. Well, their high school band

322
00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:13,720
Speaker 2: pretty much did that whole Joe Cockers set. They had horns,

323
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Speaker 2: they had all these background singers. You know, Leon Russell

324
00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:20,240
Speaker 2: was a big hero of ours as far as being

325
00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:25,600
Speaker 2: a studio musician, And they kind of copied that band

326
00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:29,360
Speaker 2: through through high school. And then when I got into

327
00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:32,080
Speaker 2: high school, I took those same charts and I did

328
00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:35,800
Speaker 2: that same set. At first, I was kind of copying that,

329
00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:41,159
Speaker 2: but then I later in high school, I got rid

330
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Speaker 2: of the horns and I wanted to do more of

331
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Speaker 2: a rock and roll thing, and that's when I hooked

332
00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:48,080
Speaker 2: up with my So when I met Steve Lucather and

333
00:20:48,119 --> 00:20:52,880
Speaker 2: Mike Landau and Carlos Vega and John Pierce and these

334
00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:54,800
Speaker 2: guys that all went on to have great careers. We

335
00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:57,639
Speaker 2: had a band in high school and did lots of

336
00:20:57,680 --> 00:21:01,560
Speaker 2: proms and all started taking our new very seriously. All

337
00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:02,440
Speaker 2: of a sudden, you.

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Speaker 3: Know, Okay, so you are the connection to Lucerther, not

339
00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:15,520
Speaker 3: your brothers. Yes, okay, so you meet Lucather, you meet Landau,

340
00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:22,040
Speaker 3: you're playing this is all great. Your brother both brothers

341
00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:25,520
Speaker 3: are Ultimately they've made this a career. Is that in

342
00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:27,479
Speaker 3: the back of your mind to say this is what

343
00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:28,919
Speaker 3: I want to do or you say this is what

344
00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:29,720
Speaker 3: I'm doing now.

345
00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:33,760
Speaker 2: It's absolutely what we wanted to do, and it's what

346
00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:36,120
Speaker 2: we saw was so possible because it was right there

347
00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:39,360
Speaker 2: and it kind of inspired all of us. It inspired

348
00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:42,000
Speaker 2: all of us in our band that it was you know,

349
00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:45,600
Speaker 2: it wasn't just some pipe dream. Jeff and Mike were

350
00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:49,639
Speaker 2: doing it, you know, you know, and it certainly helped me.

351
00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:54,240
Speaker 2: I went through a very difficult period where I you know,

352
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Speaker 2: as I'm in eleventh grade and twelfth grade in school,

353
00:21:57,000 --> 00:22:00,000
Speaker 2: I'm looking I see that my brother's careers took off

354
00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:03,800
Speaker 2: freight away. But as far as being the piano player

355
00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:07,680
Speaker 2: on a session, being a keyboard player on a session.

356
00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:12,240
Speaker 2: I saw the competition. It was Michael o'mardian and David

357
00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:16,199
Speaker 2: Page and David Foster and these guys that were I

358
00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:21,639
Speaker 2: was nowhere near their ability as far as just basic keyboards,

359
00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:24,439
Speaker 2: which is part of the reason. I mean, I was

360
00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:28,639
Speaker 2: always interested in any way, but I early on I

361
00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:34,639
Speaker 2: dove way into synthesizers. I saw especially this is before MIDI,

362
00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:38,280
Speaker 2: and I just saw this chasm where the guys who

363
00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:41,480
Speaker 2: knew a lot about synthesizers were these nerds, you know,

364
00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:45,800
Speaker 2: with pocket protectors on, and the real the great players

365
00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:51,160
Speaker 2: didn't want to have anything to do with interfacing, you know,

366
00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:55,560
Speaker 2: a synthesizer, what it took to play a mogue from

367
00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:58,760
Speaker 2: an art and vice versa, and the little black boxes

368
00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:03,600
Speaker 2: and that took and I dove way into that stuff,

369
00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:08,359
Speaker 2: and at a very early age start getting hired to

370
00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:10,879
Speaker 2: be a synthesizer programmer.

371
00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:14,680
Speaker 3: Wait a little bit slower. There's the full mug, then

372
00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:17,520
Speaker 3: there's the mini mug. There's the R twenty five hundred

373
00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:20,640
Speaker 3: than the twenty six hundred, which is more for a

374
00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:24,480
Speaker 3: consumer everyday thing. Where do you get in on this.

375
00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:26,879
Speaker 3: It really sort of happened to the change of the

376
00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:30,280
Speaker 3: decades sixties to the seventies. And also this stuff was

377
00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:36,560
Speaker 3: not cheap. So nope, how did you literally get vaulved Sure?

378
00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:39,480
Speaker 3: I had this friend in high school. His name was

379
00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:43,080
Speaker 3: Jay Chernick, and he owned We were all way into

380
00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:46,440
Speaker 3: Prague Rock. We were all into Emerson, Lincoln Palmer and Yes,

381
00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:50,400
Speaker 3: and these these these.

382
00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:54,359
Speaker 2: Guys were our heroes. Not so much my brothers, but

383
00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:57,280
Speaker 2: I mean they hit me to that stuff. Jeff hit

384
00:23:57,359 --> 00:24:00,280
Speaker 2: me to King Crimson and emersoniank and paulm Or. But

385
00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:04,600
Speaker 2: he didn't stay in that camp very long. But I

386
00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:08,560
Speaker 2: had this friend who owned a Mini Mogue. He owned

387
00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:12,720
Speaker 2: an Oberheim Sequencer and an Oberheim Expander module. And I

388
00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:16,480
Speaker 2: would hang out with this guy every day, and he

389
00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:21,080
Speaker 2: was teaching me. He was showing me stuff on this

390
00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:24,800
Speaker 2: Mini Mogue, and he had this stuff interfaced. He had

391
00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:28,280
Speaker 2: these little black boxes. He had hired someone so that

392
00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:33,359
Speaker 2: this Mogue could talk to this Oberheim, which wasn't easy

393
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:37,800
Speaker 2: to do in those days. Anyway, I'm still in high school.

394
00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:40,600
Speaker 2: All I wanted to do was be on the road

395
00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:48,439
Speaker 2: and following my brother's footsteps. And I auditioned it started

396
00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:50,880
Speaker 2: becoming At that point, it was like a new thing

397
00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:54,760
Speaker 2: where groups on the road were hiring a second keyboard

398
00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:59,960
Speaker 2: player to cover the string arrangements, to play in art

399
00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:03,640
Speaker 2: a string ensemble, to cover you know what I mean,

400
00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:06,320
Speaker 2: to cover overdubs live, and all of a sudden kind

401
00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:10,440
Speaker 2: of became this new chair with touring bands. And I

402
00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:14,280
Speaker 2: remember I auditioned for Mac Davis and didn't get it.

403
00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:18,399
Speaker 2: He just said, you're too young. I'm still in high school.

404
00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:23,199
Speaker 2: I auditioned for Tim Buckley and he was looking for

405
00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:25,520
Speaker 2: a guy who was more of a jazz pianist. He

406
00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:29,800
Speaker 2: was looking for a jazzer. I didn't get that. And

407
00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:34,520
Speaker 2: then David Foster, whoy had just started programming for, had

408
00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:37,560
Speaker 2: just finished working with Gary Wright and recording the dream

409
00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:43,280
Speaker 2: Weaver album, and Gary had asked him. Gary was putting

410
00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:47,639
Speaker 2: together an all keyboard band, and did David noah of

411
00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:52,199
Speaker 2: any young keyboard players who would tour for cheap who

412
00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:57,320
Speaker 2: knew how to play synthesizer. And he gave Gary my

413
00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:02,600
Speaker 2: number and I played mo base for Gary Wright for

414
00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:05,320
Speaker 2: I got the gig, and I left high school a

415
00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:08,440
Speaker 2: semester early because I got the gig playing with Gary Wright.

416
00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:11,400
Speaker 2: You know and I rate then I didn't even own

417
00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:14,120
Speaker 2: a synthesizer then. As a matter of fact, on my audition,

418
00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:17,640
Speaker 2: I had borrowed my friend's mini Mogue and he had

419
00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:20,880
Speaker 2: marked for me with grease pencil, like cool base settings.

420
00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:24,520
Speaker 2: You know, that's how little I knew about it. He

421
00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:29,320
Speaker 2: marked some cool base settings. I got the gig and

422
00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:34,000
Speaker 2: my brother Mike loaned me the money. I Jay Tchernick,

423
00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:36,720
Speaker 2: my friend had decided he wanted to sell all his

424
00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:40,639
Speaker 2: synthesizer equipment and buy a grand piano. He wanted to

425
00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:47,159
Speaker 2: start taking his his piano lessons seriously, and I bought

426
00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:49,919
Speaker 2: that very rig My brother Mike loaned me the money,

427
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:52,199
Speaker 2: and that was the mog base I had that I

428
00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:53,880
Speaker 2: took on tour with me with Gary Wright.

429
00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:55,879
Speaker 3: How much money did you need?

430
00:26:57,280 --> 00:27:00,200
Speaker 2: It was two thousand dollars for the whole thing, which

431
00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:03,679
Speaker 2: was a good minimugs listed They listed for fifteen hundred

432
00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:07,960
Speaker 2: dollars then, and then the other stuff was well over

433
00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:11,199
Speaker 2: another thousand dollars. And it was a It was a

434
00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:14,919
Speaker 2: beautiful minimug which I have to this day. I still

435
00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:19,480
Speaker 2: have it. It it it crashed into a million pieces.

436
00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:22,320
Speaker 2: One time we were opening for Jethro Tull, and when

437
00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:26,240
Speaker 2: they took our equipment off the stage, it came crashing

438
00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:29,520
Speaker 2: down to the floor in a million pieces. But I

439
00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:34,639
Speaker 2: had the guts put in another, put in another enclosure,

440
00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:40,359
Speaker 2: and so funny because I just had some work on

441
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:42,280
Speaker 2: it and I just got it back, so I had

442
00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:44,439
Speaker 2: to show it to you. This was the very first

443
00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:47,920
Speaker 2: minimo guy ever owned. You know that, My brother Mike

444
00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:50,960
Speaker 2: helped me, helped me pay for for Gary Wright.

445
00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:53,760
Speaker 3: Okay, if you were on the road with jeth Rode

446
00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:57,399
Speaker 3: Tall and the Mini moge broke, what'd you do with

447
00:27:57,480 --> 00:27:58,080
Speaker 3: the next show?

448
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:02,919
Speaker 2: Gary had this? We were opening for Jethro Toll. Gary

449
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:05,399
Speaker 2: was opening for Jethro Toll. We did a full month

450
00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:09,320
Speaker 2: with him, and I loved it. I didn't miss one

451
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:14,160
Speaker 2: Jethro Tol show. I was, I was. I didn't miss

452
00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:18,720
Speaker 2: one show. Gary had this amazing tech, this kid named

453
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:24,520
Speaker 2: Alan who is amazing, and Gary already had a mini

454
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:27,520
Speaker 2: Mogue had a keyboard. This this tech had put his

455
00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:31,840
Speaker 2: keyboard in a separate enclosure, so it wasn't a key tar.

456
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:34,600
Speaker 2: There was no quitar neck on it, but it just

457
00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:37,840
Speaker 2: he had this this minimog around his neck and he

458
00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:40,240
Speaker 2: would come out in front and Gary would play you know,

459
00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:44,440
Speaker 2: minimog solos and Mini Mogue parts. So Alan did the

460
00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:48,720
Speaker 2: same thing for me. He just built this. Uh he

461
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:51,800
Speaker 2: put it in a in a you know, right away,

462
00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:54,200
Speaker 2: put it in a box and had these connectors where

463
00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:57,080
Speaker 2: my keyboard was separate, and I started wearing the keyboard

464
00:28:57,120 --> 00:29:00,400
Speaker 2: around my neck with Gary also, you know, playing the

465
00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:01,040
Speaker 2: bass parts.

466
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:05,040
Speaker 3: Okay, let's go back before you own the Mini Mode.

467
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:10,160
Speaker 3: You're working with Foster, You're programming. What exactly are you doing?

468
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:13,560
Speaker 3: You know, programming today is a whole thing programming drugs.

469
00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:18,440
Speaker 3: But in drum excuse me, in the seventies, programming SyncE

470
00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:21,000
Speaker 3: like for what were you actually doing?

471
00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:25,160
Speaker 2: You know, it was it was simply often like say

472
00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:28,480
Speaker 2: with a Mini Mogue, it was like they typically would

473
00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:31,600
Speaker 2: want a cool bass sound, a cool Mogue bass sound,

474
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:35,320
Speaker 2: and some of these guys like Foster or David Page

475
00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:39,360
Speaker 2: in particular David Page was able to get up great

476
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:43,800
Speaker 2: sounds sometimes on a Mini Mog, but especially when you

477
00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:46,880
Speaker 2: were working Foster was his career was taking off, and

478
00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:49,959
Speaker 2: he's working with Alice Cooper and he's every day it

479
00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:54,440
Speaker 2: was someone else, and one day it was Michael Jackson

480
00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:58,600
Speaker 2: and Quincy Jones. And when you were in the studio

481
00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:01,200
Speaker 2: with those guys, you didn't I want to be guessing.

482
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:05,400
Speaker 2: You know. Sometimes these guys would get lucky with since UH,

483
00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:07,360
Speaker 2: but they didn't want to be guessing, so they would

484
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:11,600
Speaker 2: bring me along to make sure that when it was

485
00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:13,760
Speaker 2: time to get a mog bass sound, I could really

486
00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:16,520
Speaker 2: dial it in and UH. And I also had a

487
00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:21,400
Speaker 2: twenty six hundred by that point. Yeah, and I got

488
00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:25,440
Speaker 2: a CSAD very early on UH and mastered it. You

489
00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:28,280
Speaker 2: know what I mean. I really had it down, and

490
00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:32,680
Speaker 2: you know, and I was very Uh. I was very musical.

491
00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:37,080
Speaker 2: I wasn't just a synth NERD. I was very musical,

492
00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:42,360
Speaker 2: and and I wasn't trying to I worked really well

493
00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:44,720
Speaker 2: in the studio with these guys. I wasn't trying to

494
00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:48,000
Speaker 2: show them up in front of the producer or the artist.

495
00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:52,239
Speaker 2: I loved when these guys would do the playing and

496
00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:55,080
Speaker 2: I just would tweet the sound while they were playing.

497
00:30:55,680 --> 00:31:00,320
Speaker 2: They loved that I would dial it in. And you know,

498
00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:04,000
Speaker 2: I was a great team player and I made I

499
00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:13,000
Speaker 2: just made myself real handy to be around in the studio.

500
00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:18,880
Speaker 3: You're seventeen years old, You're on the road with Gary Wright.

501
00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:24,960
Speaker 2: What is that like? You know, it was incredible, especially

502
00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:27,720
Speaker 2: being with Gary Wright where I mean, I had no idea.

503
00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:32,520
Speaker 2: He had this big time manager, de Anthony. He had

504
00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:36,640
Speaker 2: these incredible agents. So right away, not only was I

505
00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:39,960
Speaker 2: on the road, but we're doing these great gigs. We're

506
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:42,920
Speaker 2: opening for Peter Frampton all the time, We're opening for

507
00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:48,760
Speaker 2: Jethro Tull, where we're doing stadium gigs. You know, We're

508
00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:52,880
Speaker 2: on these amazing gigs. I mean, I was getting two

509
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:57,400
Speaker 2: hundred bucks a week, you know. But what they didn't

510
00:31:57,400 --> 00:31:59,040
Speaker 2: know is that I would have paid them two hundred

511
00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:04,440
Speaker 2: bucks a week for I was living my Beatles wet dream.

512
00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:06,200
Speaker 2: To be honest with you, you know what I'm saying. I

513
00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:09,280
Speaker 2: was playing in front of big crowds, which was all

514
00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:11,120
Speaker 2: I wanted to do at that point in my life.

515
00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:14,920
Speaker 3: You know, how about drinking, drugging and women.

516
00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:20,680
Speaker 2: You know, I didn't as far as women goes, I

517
00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:24,240
Speaker 2: didn't have. I was seventeen. I didn't have much game.

518
00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:28,280
Speaker 2: To be quite honest with you, I'm sixty seven. I

519
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:32,720
Speaker 2: still don't have much game. But you know, the drugs

520
00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:36,600
Speaker 2: part was just then. We were just celebrating life. We

521
00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:41,360
Speaker 2: were smoking a bunch of weed. And you know, these

522
00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:44,520
Speaker 2: were the days in nineteen seventy five. You know, you

523
00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:47,560
Speaker 2: know cocaine was not addictive. That was the good news

524
00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:49,959
Speaker 2: about it was it wasn't you know, you didn't get

525
00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:52,200
Speaker 2: addicted to it, you know what I mean, no one,

526
00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:55,720
Speaker 2: No one had that much money then to you know,

527
00:32:55,760 --> 00:33:00,360
Speaker 2: you were just doing these little, tiny amounts and it

528
00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:02,840
Speaker 2: was a party. Now, you know, part of my story

529
00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:06,160
Speaker 2: in my life is that. Believe me. I I I

530
00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:10,200
Speaker 2: definitely much later on than we're talking about. My fun

531
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:14,560
Speaker 2: button got stuck and I stayed at the party way

532
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:21,720
Speaker 2: too long. I think, looking back now, I think that,

533
00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:25,960
Speaker 2: you know, because I was never much into alcohol. If

534
00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:30,400
Speaker 2: I drank, I couldn't do I couldn't you know, I

535
00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:34,640
Speaker 2: couldn't work. And for me, the drugs were very connected

536
00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:38,720
Speaker 2: with work, with learning synthesizers. I think it was kind

537
00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:41,400
Speaker 2: of acting as my riddling, to be honest with you,

538
00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:45,600
Speaker 2: More than I was never a big partier, if you

539
00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:49,480
Speaker 2: know what I mean. I uh, you know, I used

540
00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:52,960
Speaker 2: it because I was having so much fun. I once

541
00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:57,640
Speaker 2: I got a bunch of synthesizers and I was always

542
00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:02,000
Speaker 2: thinking putting two and two together. I had taken you know,

543
00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:04,960
Speaker 2: I had taken arranging lessons, so I had knew how

544
00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:08,520
Speaker 2: to block harmonize for saxophones, like for a big band.

545
00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:13,719
Speaker 2: And then I get this sequencer that's an eight channel sequencer.

546
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:17,279
Speaker 2: And the only guys were using that we're doing you know,

547
00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:21,360
Speaker 2: we're doing you know what? They wound up calling krout

548
00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:25,680
Speaker 2: rock and stuff. It was this very electronic YadA YadA

549
00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:30,040
Speaker 2: YadA stuff. And I was thinking, you know, I could

550
00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:32,719
Speaker 2: take you know what I mean, I could have five

551
00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:36,800
Speaker 2: flutes playing in block harmony, doing sixteenth notes through chord changes.

552
00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:40,000
Speaker 2: I know how to do that. I don't see anyone

553
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:44,040
Speaker 2: else doing stuff like that. I was so excited about

554
00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:48,960
Speaker 2: marrying the technology with with what I knew musically, it

555
00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:52,000
Speaker 2: was hard for me to go to sleep at night.

556
00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:53,480
Speaker 2: I was so excited about it.

557
00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:55,960
Speaker 3: You know, some people go out on the road to

558
00:34:56,000 --> 00:35:01,200
Speaker 3: supporting musicians. They don't even talk to the liner person

559
00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:03,799
Speaker 3: they're working for once they're off stage. What was your

560
00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:05,479
Speaker 3: relationship like with Gary Wright?

561
00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:10,720
Speaker 2: Gary was a total sweetheart. Gary was the best Gary

562
00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:13,799
Speaker 2: was you know, look, he was just an opening act then,

563
00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:18,160
Speaker 2: but even when he when things took off, Gary was great.

564
00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:20,839
Speaker 2: He took me under his wing. He took us out

565
00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:25,800
Speaker 2: to dinner all the time. He was fantastic, He was funny,

566
00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:30,319
Speaker 2: he was he was an absolute sweetheart. We just lost

567
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:33,600
Speaker 2: him somewhat recently, you know, a year or two ago,

568
00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:38,840
Speaker 2: and I've I've always, I've always been so grateful that

569
00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:42,080
Speaker 2: I had that Gary gave me the opportunities he gave me.

570
00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:46,439
Speaker 2: He didn't he just like I said, after those first

571
00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:51,120
Speaker 2: two auditions, I I went into audition and the drummer

572
00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:54,120
Speaker 2: Art would was setting up and we were just jamming,

573
00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:57,880
Speaker 2: you know, we were jamming on an E on E

574
00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:00,560
Speaker 2: doing just kind of doing a funk groove. And after

575
00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:06,120
Speaker 2: ten minutes, he goes, you got the gig, and you

576
00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:08,120
Speaker 2: know what I mean? And I had a ball, you

577
00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:08,680
Speaker 2: know what I mean.

578
00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:13,319
Speaker 3: Okay, going back, if some young musician came to you

579
00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:16,440
Speaker 3: today and said I have an opportunity to go on

580
00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:20,120
Speaker 3: the road and I have to drop out of high

581
00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:22,120
Speaker 3: school to do it, what would you say.

582
00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:25,799
Speaker 2: Oh boy, you know, it's a really it's a really

583
00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:33,440
Speaker 2: good question. You know, you know the only way I

584
00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:38,200
Speaker 2: can answer it is by telling you believe me with

585
00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:42,960
Speaker 2: my situation. Let's just say, and I would tell them

586
00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:47,760
Speaker 2: this at the time when we're talking about nineteen seventy five. Now,

587
00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:53,520
Speaker 2: my father did film scores every day. And the composers,

588
00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:59,440
Speaker 2: the Lilo Schiffrin's, the John Williams, the you know, the

589
00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:04,400
Speaker 2: everyone you can mention, the Bernard Herrmann's, the film scorers.

590
00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:07,600
Speaker 2: These guys were these maestros. They were these guys that

591
00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:12,640
Speaker 2: were on such a pedestal. I never thought I could

592
00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:16,520
Speaker 2: ever be considered to do that kind of gig. Okay,

593
00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:21,440
Speaker 2: flash to many years later, and guys like Danny Elfman,

594
00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:23,680
Speaker 2: Hans Zimmer, these guys, All of a sudden, it's like,

595
00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:29,400
Speaker 2: it's completely possible. I had no idea of some of

596
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:34,000
Speaker 2: the opportunities I would have later in life. You know, Yeah,

597
00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:35,719
Speaker 2: I wanted to be a rock star and I wanted

598
00:37:35,719 --> 00:37:39,000
Speaker 2: to experience that being in front of people right then.

599
00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:41,640
Speaker 2: But I might, I might say, you might want to

600
00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:44,600
Speaker 2: think about the future and what you want to what

601
00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:47,000
Speaker 2: tools you want to be able to have, and do

602
00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:49,719
Speaker 2: you want to work in film, and do you want

603
00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:53,200
Speaker 2: to go to a four year college and have learn

604
00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:58,640
Speaker 2: about orchestration and composition and counterpoint and theory and all

605
00:37:58,680 --> 00:38:05,319
Speaker 2: this stuff. Now, at the same time, what I did

606
00:38:05,560 --> 00:38:11,759
Speaker 2: was was I realized early on that I wasn't going

607
00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:14,919
Speaker 2: to compete with these usual keyboard players. That I had

608
00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:18,640
Speaker 2: to make this. I had to find this niche, niche,

609
00:38:18,719 --> 00:38:22,439
Speaker 2: this unique. I had to separate myself from everyone else

610
00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:27,880
Speaker 2: in some way. And that's been my motto my whole

611
00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:31,799
Speaker 2: life is to be different, is to find my own thing,

612
00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:37,640
Speaker 2: my own style, which now happens. Part of it was

613
00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:39,400
Speaker 2: the fact that I went on the road early, that

614
00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:42,440
Speaker 2: I got into synthesizers, when I got into them, that

615
00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:46,560
Speaker 2: I've had all these different piano teachers. I didn't just

616
00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:51,319
Speaker 2: have one. I had ten different piano teachers. And if

617
00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:53,120
Speaker 2: I told you who some of them were, You'd think

618
00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:55,960
Speaker 2: I'd play like Lenny Tristano or something. You think I'd

619
00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:59,799
Speaker 2: be some great keyboard player. It's like I never with

620
00:38:59,840 --> 00:39:03,520
Speaker 2: my short attention span, I never stuck with it. But

621
00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:07,439
Speaker 2: you know what that has contributed to making me who

622
00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:11,720
Speaker 2: I am, which is unique and different, you know from

623
00:39:12,160 --> 00:39:17,080
Speaker 2: all the other guys that do what I do. So

624
00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:21,319
Speaker 2: what would I tell them to answer your question? I

625
00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:24,439
Speaker 2: just would would want them to think about that. Maybe

626
00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:28,440
Speaker 2: there's some things down the line, you know. You know,

627
00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:31,319
Speaker 2: because I saw sure at seventeen, I right away I

628
00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:35,080
Speaker 2: was in front of these crowds. I'm getting adulation, I'm

629
00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:38,879
Speaker 2: getting gold records, I'm getting this success. But I saw

630
00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:41,719
Speaker 2: how some of my friends who you know what, they

631
00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:44,279
Speaker 2: just kind of kept their nose to the grindstone. And

632
00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:48,440
Speaker 2: then maybe they went to school. But later they when

633
00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:51,280
Speaker 2: they started their careers, they had a lot more depth

634
00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:54,120
Speaker 2: than I did. They were able to do film scores

635
00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:57,640
Speaker 2: and stuff on a level that I was never able to.

636
00:39:58,120 --> 00:40:00,600
Speaker 2: You know, yes, I did some films scoring, but you

637
00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:03,360
Speaker 2: know what, to be real honest with you, I wasn't

638
00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:07,240
Speaker 2: that good at it. I was okay, I was able

639
00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:10,839
Speaker 2: to get through it, but I wasn't I didn't have

640
00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:15,480
Speaker 2: the musical chops, to be honest with you, that my

641
00:40:15,640 --> 00:40:19,799
Speaker 2: friends like James Howard and other people you know, or

642
00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:23,600
Speaker 2: just the innate talent. You know, a guy like Danny Elfman,

643
00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:26,480
Speaker 2: he writes, when he writes music, he's writing it all

644
00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:30,040
Speaker 2: in trouble cleft and using octave signs. But you know what,

645
00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:36,440
Speaker 2: how can you argue with his results? You know, Hans

646
00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:39,520
Speaker 2: Zimmer when he walks into an orchestral session, he doesn't know.

647
00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:42,560
Speaker 2: You know, James Howard could sit there and look at

648
00:40:42,560 --> 00:40:45,360
Speaker 2: a tenor cleft part and he could whistle the part

649
00:40:45,719 --> 00:40:49,640
Speaker 2: to the bassoon player. Okay, James has that kind of

650
00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:52,400
Speaker 2: talent and perfect pitch, and he can look at a

651
00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:56,080
Speaker 2: score and do that. Hans wouldn't know an alto kleff

652
00:40:56,080 --> 00:40:59,319
Speaker 2: from a tenor cleft, and he doesn't care. He's got

653
00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:03,759
Speaker 2: his orchestras that do that. Hans is being Hans, and

654
00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:05,719
Speaker 2: he knows what he wants and he knows what he

655
00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:09,120
Speaker 2: wants to hear. And I think his work is amazing.

656
00:41:09,680 --> 00:41:12,640
Speaker 2: You know, I think his work is amazing. You know,

657
00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:16,960
Speaker 2: people can judge it all they want. People made fun

658
00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:19,720
Speaker 2: of Danny Elfman at one point when he was starting off,

659
00:41:20,080 --> 00:41:22,080
Speaker 2: you know, people look down their nose at him. But

660
00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:26,560
Speaker 2: you know what, Danny has written some incredibly beautiful stuff.

661
00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:27,040
Speaker 2: I think.

662
00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:31,520
Speaker 3: You know, let's go to your film TV career. Sure

663
00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:34,080
Speaker 3: you said you weren't that good at it, but like

664
00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:36,360
Speaker 3: you were a composer for Justified.

665
00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:41,080
Speaker 2: Yes, that was my last TV show I did. And

666
00:41:41,080 --> 00:41:42,960
Speaker 2: and you know when I did a show like that,

667
00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:48,719
Speaker 2: it owned me. It owned me. I it would take

668
00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:53,120
Speaker 2: me working day and night and weekends when I did

669
00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:56,520
Speaker 2: film stuff. Some of my friends, you know, would get

670
00:41:56,560 --> 00:41:59,640
Speaker 2: these TV shows where they they'd have two minutes of

671
00:41:59,719 --> 00:42:02,040
Speaker 2: music a week, and it would be a little piano

672
00:42:02,120 --> 00:42:04,880
Speaker 2: tinkling with some string pads behind him, and that was

673
00:42:04,920 --> 00:42:08,680
Speaker 2: it every week. And they did shows like that for

674
00:42:08,719 --> 00:42:12,480
Speaker 2: fourteen years. They'd get this great paycheck and they could

675
00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:15,000
Speaker 2: work on their songs in the evening and they could

676
00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:18,839
Speaker 2: work on another project over here. Every gig I ever

677
00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:22,359
Speaker 2: got was like there would be multiple chase scenes that

678
00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:25,600
Speaker 2: would last three to five minutes, and it was like

679
00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:29,200
Speaker 2: it was hard work, you know, And the way I

680
00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:35,200
Speaker 2: did it, it was hard, hard work. And to be

681
00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:39,160
Speaker 2: honest with you, I really wasn't. I really didn't have

682
00:42:39,239 --> 00:42:43,280
Speaker 2: those chops. It would take me. Those kind of shows

683
00:42:43,320 --> 00:42:48,920
Speaker 2: would own me my. You know. What I appreciated about

684
00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:50,799
Speaker 2: it was that it taught me to grow up. It

685
00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:55,680
Speaker 2: taught me about finishing. It taught me about, you know,

686
00:42:56,200 --> 00:42:58,800
Speaker 2: having a deadline. You know. I was in a band

687
00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:01,880
Speaker 2: where if I showed up, if it was time for

688
00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:04,000
Speaker 2: us for Toto to start making a record, and I

689
00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:07,720
Speaker 2: didn't have any songs, no, but I didn't get in trouble.

690
00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:11,600
Speaker 2: There was four other, five other writers with lots of

691
00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:15,719
Speaker 2: songs to play. You know, nobody was like saying, hey,

692
00:43:15,719 --> 00:43:19,359
Speaker 2: come on man, where's your stuff? You know. And by

693
00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:22,080
Speaker 2: the way, they were great in that they would anything

694
00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:25,080
Speaker 2: I did, play, anything I did come up with. They

695
00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:27,239
Speaker 2: were very happy to cut it for me, you know,

696
00:43:27,800 --> 00:43:30,040
Speaker 2: and we would cut it. We'd be at Sunset Sound

697
00:43:30,120 --> 00:43:33,040
Speaker 2: and we went to London to do our strings, and

698
00:43:33,520 --> 00:43:35,719
Speaker 2: you know, I had these great opportunities, but I was

699
00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:41,080
Speaker 2: so my gig. My job in the band was being

700
00:43:41,160 --> 00:43:45,720
Speaker 2: the synth guy. David was the keyboard player, so to speak,

701
00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:49,520
Speaker 2: and my job was doing the synth stuff. And I

702
00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:52,760
Speaker 2: wanted the synth stuff to be the best synth stuff.

703
00:43:53,320 --> 00:43:56,319
Speaker 2: There was a planet Earth, you know, if that was

704
00:43:56,360 --> 00:43:59,320
Speaker 2: going to be my job. So I was. My nose

705
00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:01,840
Speaker 2: was in a man annual, a whole lot I was.

706
00:44:03,920 --> 00:44:07,319
Speaker 2: You know, I wasn't an electronics guy. I didn't take

707
00:44:07,360 --> 00:44:11,720
Speaker 2: electronics and high school for an elective. I took print

708
00:44:11,719 --> 00:44:16,760
Speaker 2: shop for some reason. I wanted to make rubber stamps,

709
00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:20,560
Speaker 2: you know, that sounded fun to me. I knew nothing

710
00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:24,600
Speaker 2: about electronics. I just would make friends with Roger Lynz

711
00:44:25,080 --> 00:44:28,440
Speaker 2: and Ralph Dyke's and the guys who really knew their stuff.

712
00:44:28,920 --> 00:44:34,040
Speaker 2: These guys became my friends because we were It was

713
00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:37,600
Speaker 2: mutually beneficial. We would help each other out. You know,

714
00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:41,080
Speaker 2: I was always never had a shortage of ideas.

715
00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:43,680
Speaker 3: Was there any issue of imposter syndrome?

716
00:44:44,719 --> 00:44:50,680
Speaker 2: Absolutely sure, absolutely, But you know what I don't have

717
00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:53,480
Speaker 2: you know what I mean that slowly started going away.

718
00:44:53,800 --> 00:44:59,320
Speaker 2: I would, you know, quite honestly, even when my career

719
00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:02,799
Speaker 2: was pea, when Toto was doing their best work with

720
00:45:02,920 --> 00:45:06,600
Speaker 2: Toto four, and I had a song on the Thriller album,

721
00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:10,120
Speaker 2: and I had all the work I would ever want,

722
00:45:10,239 --> 00:45:13,360
Speaker 2: I would still every single weekend I would go to

723
00:45:13,400 --> 00:45:16,920
Speaker 2: the Baked Potato. I'd hear either one of my brothers

724
00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:20,080
Speaker 2: or Luke or one of my friends or Landauers. I'd

725
00:45:20,160 --> 00:45:23,000
Speaker 2: hear one of these guys play with a band there,

726
00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:25,680
Speaker 2: and I'd walk out of there feeling like a piece

727
00:45:25,680 --> 00:45:29,080
Speaker 2: of shit because of what I didn't have together. Because

728
00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:31,279
Speaker 2: I wanted to be able to play jazz. I wanted

729
00:45:31,280 --> 00:45:35,280
Speaker 2: to be able to blow through changes, and I couldn't,

730
00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:38,640
Speaker 2: and I was totally afraid of being found out. You know.

731
00:45:39,560 --> 00:45:44,240
Speaker 2: You know, here I had this great career, I'm making money,

732
00:45:44,320 --> 00:45:48,560
Speaker 2: I have all the success, and yet even at like

733
00:45:48,640 --> 00:45:53,480
Speaker 2: such a basic level for me, I you know, I

734
00:45:53,520 --> 00:45:56,680
Speaker 2: couldn't I couldn't improvise on a blues without playing the

735
00:45:56,719 --> 00:46:01,120
Speaker 2: same three licks over and over again or something. You know.

736
00:46:02,200 --> 00:46:04,720
Speaker 2: So there was definitely imposter syndrome.

737
00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:09,040
Speaker 3: When Dream Weaver becomes very successful in the summer seventy five,

738
00:46:09,120 --> 00:46:14,360
Speaker 3: it's the heyday of music on television in Concert Midnight Special,

739
00:46:14,719 --> 00:46:19,200
Speaker 3: there's some video of Gary Wright and his band on YouTube.

740
00:46:19,280 --> 00:46:20,680
Speaker 3: Are you in those videos?

741
00:46:20,880 --> 00:46:26,759
Speaker 2: Absolutely? Absolutely? And I'm kicking ass in those videos. You know,

742
00:46:26,880 --> 00:46:29,239
Speaker 2: when it comes to playing a bass part, I'm Dreamwaiver.

743
00:46:29,960 --> 00:46:34,279
Speaker 2: I'm your guy. You know I could even play. There's

744
00:46:34,400 --> 00:46:36,680
Speaker 2: video of me playing a clavinet part with my left

745
00:46:36,680 --> 00:46:39,960
Speaker 2: hand while I'm playing the bass part with my right hand.

746
00:46:40,480 --> 00:46:50,960
Speaker 2: You know that kind of stuff. No problem.

747
00:46:51,040 --> 00:46:55,080
Speaker 3: Okay. So Gary has this great run dream Weaver Love

748
00:46:55,200 --> 00:46:59,000
Speaker 3: is Alive. That is actually the peak of his solo career.

749
00:46:59,480 --> 00:47:02,000
Speaker 3: How long are you on the road with him? And

750
00:47:02,080 --> 00:47:04,239
Speaker 3: what happens? Does he say we're going to go back

751
00:47:04,280 --> 00:47:07,040
Speaker 3: out or we did a tour and that's it, or

752
00:47:07,200 --> 00:47:08,560
Speaker 3: you say I did a tour, I want to do

753
00:47:08,600 --> 00:47:10,000
Speaker 3: something else. What goes on there?

754
00:47:11,280 --> 00:47:13,920
Speaker 2: Just Gary? Did you know when he started off? This

755
00:47:14,080 --> 00:47:16,800
Speaker 2: was before this is just as the album was being released.

756
00:47:17,960 --> 00:47:20,279
Speaker 2: Like I said, we're playing all these great gigs. I'm

757
00:47:20,320 --> 00:47:23,960
Speaker 2: living the dream. Dream Weaver becomes a big hit record,

758
00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:27,799
Speaker 2: and just as we kind of finished, like a year

759
00:47:27,840 --> 00:47:32,640
Speaker 2: of touring, dream Weaver comes out, it hits big, and

760
00:47:32,640 --> 00:47:35,160
Speaker 2: they want us right back on the road again, you know,

761
00:47:35,239 --> 00:47:37,279
Speaker 2: before Gary makes another record. They wanted us on the

762
00:47:37,360 --> 00:47:40,560
Speaker 2: road to keep promoting it, to keep plugging it away,

763
00:47:41,120 --> 00:47:43,800
Speaker 2: plugging away at it, at promoting it Warner he was

764
00:47:43,840 --> 00:47:47,239
Speaker 2: on Warner Brothers, and so we were right back on

765
00:47:47,280 --> 00:47:49,960
Speaker 2: the road. At a certain point, I was asking for

766
00:47:50,040 --> 00:47:54,680
Speaker 2: a raise. Gary didn't, you know, as great as things were,

767
00:47:55,440 --> 00:47:57,680
Speaker 2: you know, he didn't want to give me the rays

768
00:47:57,719 --> 00:48:00,319
Speaker 2: I wanted. And I was okay with it. It's not

769
00:48:00,360 --> 00:48:05,600
Speaker 2: like I was angry or going to quit. But you know,

770
00:48:05,719 --> 00:48:08,120
Speaker 2: the day I asked for a raise and was told no,

771
00:48:08,640 --> 00:48:11,560
Speaker 2: I went back out. We're in Florida somewhere at a

772
00:48:11,600 --> 00:48:14,600
Speaker 2: hotel and I went back out on the beach and

773
00:48:14,680 --> 00:48:18,440
Speaker 2: I wasn't even mad. I just was it was like whatever.

774
00:48:18,520 --> 00:48:20,160
Speaker 2: It wasn't like I was going to quit the gig.

775
00:48:20,719 --> 00:48:25,360
Speaker 2: And I get paged to the front desk at the

776
00:48:25,360 --> 00:48:28,200
Speaker 2: hotel and I had no you know, I was worried

777
00:48:28,239 --> 00:48:31,759
Speaker 2: maybe something happened to a family member or something, and

778
00:48:31,800 --> 00:48:36,000
Speaker 2: it happens to be Boss Skags. You know. While I

779
00:48:36,080 --> 00:48:39,240
Speaker 2: was on the road with Gary, David Page, my brother, Jeff,

780
00:48:39,320 --> 00:48:41,480
Speaker 2: David Hungy, these guys happened to be working in the

781
00:48:41,480 --> 00:48:45,520
Speaker 2: studio with Boss making this album called Silk Degrees, you know,

782
00:48:47,400 --> 00:48:51,000
Speaker 2: and they were gearing up for the road and we're

783
00:48:51,040 --> 00:48:56,040
Speaker 2: looking for a synth guy to cover the string parts

784
00:48:56,239 --> 00:48:59,439
Speaker 2: and cover the some of the synth parts, and would

785
00:48:59,480 --> 00:49:04,160
Speaker 2: I be interesting sitting going on the road. And their

786
00:49:04,280 --> 00:49:07,560
Speaker 2: first offer was much more than I was making with Gary.

787
00:49:07,680 --> 00:49:11,360
Speaker 2: So I did the Silk Degrease tour with Boss.

788
00:49:11,719 --> 00:49:15,360
Speaker 3: Well, a little bit slower. You get paiged, how do

789
00:49:15,400 --> 00:49:17,640
Speaker 3: you tell Gary and what do you and how much

790
00:49:17,680 --> 00:49:18,520
Speaker 3: time do you give him?

791
00:49:19,239 --> 00:49:22,840
Speaker 2: Oh, I got off the phone with Boss. He offers

792
00:49:22,920 --> 00:49:25,880
Speaker 2: me much more money than I'm making with Gary. I

793
00:49:25,920 --> 00:49:27,880
Speaker 2: had just asked Gary to give me a raise and

794
00:49:27,920 --> 00:49:31,920
Speaker 2: he said no, you know, And there really wasn't hard feelings.

795
00:49:32,080 --> 00:49:37,640
Speaker 2: I remember at the time. I really there really weren't

796
00:49:37,640 --> 00:49:40,359
Speaker 2: hard feelings. But I got offered. I got a much

797
00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:44,040
Speaker 2: better offer. I hung up. I asked the guy at

798
00:49:44,040 --> 00:49:46,719
Speaker 2: the front desk, I'd like to leave a message for

799
00:49:46,840 --> 00:49:50,440
Speaker 2: Gary Wright and room whatever, and I said, this is

800
00:49:50,480 --> 00:49:51,160
Speaker 2: my two weeks.

801
00:49:51,160 --> 00:49:55,680
Speaker 3: Notice, you know, then how did Gary handle that?

802
00:49:56,080 --> 00:49:58,080
Speaker 2: You know, he handled it fine. And you know what

803
00:49:58,280 --> 00:50:00,120
Speaker 2: he went on. He had hired a he woud to

804
00:50:00,280 --> 00:50:04,000
Speaker 2: hiring another couple of guys. And just so that you know,

805
00:50:04,040 --> 00:50:06,239
Speaker 2: the way you know there was no hard feelings is

806
00:50:06,239 --> 00:50:09,080
Speaker 2: that I did this whole big tour with Boz and

807
00:50:09,120 --> 00:50:12,000
Speaker 2: then you know what, Gary had a big tour coming

808
00:50:12,080 --> 00:50:16,399
Speaker 2: up of just stadiums. He had a ten city stadium tour.

809
00:50:17,000 --> 00:50:20,480
Speaker 2: General Giant was the opening act, and then Gary Wright

810
00:50:21,560 --> 00:50:26,440
Speaker 2: and then Peter Frampton and then yes, you know, and

811
00:50:26,480 --> 00:50:29,680
Speaker 2: we were doing these stadium He had ten stadium gigs

812
00:50:29,680 --> 00:50:31,960
Speaker 2: lined up and he called me and asked me to

813
00:50:32,000 --> 00:50:35,440
Speaker 2: come back and do them with them, and I said, absolutely,

814
00:50:35,840 --> 00:50:38,960
Speaker 2: you know, and they were some of the funnest gigs

815
00:50:39,040 --> 00:50:40,560
Speaker 2: I ever did in my life. Some of those are

816
00:50:40,560 --> 00:50:45,239
Speaker 2: on there are available on YouTube too. You know, some

817
00:50:45,280 --> 00:50:47,600
Speaker 2: of these stadium gigs we did. I mean, you could

818
00:50:47,640 --> 00:50:50,279
Speaker 2: see we were playing during the day, but you could see, yes,

819
00:50:50,400 --> 00:50:54,560
Speaker 2: as they still had like the Roger Dean stage from

820
00:50:54,800 --> 00:50:57,799
Speaker 2: Tales of Topographic Oceans in those days and stuff, you know,

821
00:50:57,840 --> 00:51:01,040
Speaker 2: the the yes, the stage set was all, you know,

822
00:51:01,080 --> 00:51:03,880
Speaker 2: you could see it in the background. But we had

823
00:51:03,920 --> 00:51:07,360
Speaker 2: a ball and I loved it and I loved it.

824
00:51:07,560 --> 00:51:11,399
Speaker 3: Okay, So what was the experience being on the road

825
00:51:11,400 --> 00:51:13,200
Speaker 3: with bos gags?

826
00:51:13,239 --> 00:51:19,600
Speaker 2: Fantastic BOZ was I really lucked out? I really lucked out? Again.

827
00:51:19,640 --> 00:51:23,239
Speaker 2: These gigs were so easy for me because I wasn't

828
00:51:23,280 --> 00:51:27,319
Speaker 2: in the piano player chair that's the hot seat, you know,

829
00:51:27,360 --> 00:51:30,040
Speaker 2: the guy who had to play those meat and potatoes parts.

830
00:51:30,280 --> 00:51:33,960
Speaker 2: I was playing synth parts. I was programming mini mogues

831
00:51:34,520 --> 00:51:39,160
Speaker 2: and playing string ensemble stuff. It was a cinch and

832
00:51:39,200 --> 00:51:43,440
Speaker 2: it was fun and and Boss took amazing care of

833
00:51:43,480 --> 00:51:47,080
Speaker 2: his musicians. He paid everybody really well. We stayed in

834
00:51:47,160 --> 00:51:50,279
Speaker 2: great hotels. It was just my brother Jeff was in

835
00:51:50,360 --> 00:51:54,920
Speaker 2: the band David Page, that's when we started working. At

836
00:51:54,920 --> 00:51:58,560
Speaker 2: first it was David Page. Nine later another great keyboard player,

837
00:51:58,640 --> 00:52:03,719
Speaker 2: Jay Winding, wound up doing the piano chair. Lucather came

838
00:52:03,719 --> 00:52:07,040
Speaker 2: in later on. Lucather did one of the later tours

839
00:52:07,200 --> 00:52:12,160
Speaker 2: with Boss. So yeah, I mean that's kind of this

840
00:52:12,400 --> 00:52:17,120
Speaker 2: was kind of the beginning of Toto, you know. You know,

841
00:52:17,200 --> 00:52:21,160
Speaker 2: my brother Mike wound up playing I think Hungy did

842
00:52:21,200 --> 00:52:26,040
Speaker 2: some gigs at first, but you know, Columbia Toto's record

843
00:52:26,120 --> 00:52:29,759
Speaker 2: company pretty much saw it. Was like David Page co

844
00:52:29,840 --> 00:52:33,919
Speaker 2: wrote all the songs on Silk Degrees. You know, we're

845
00:52:33,960 --> 00:52:37,920
Speaker 2: playing live. Boss's that Silk Degrees album was a huge success.

846
00:52:38,280 --> 00:52:41,040
Speaker 2: So all the record company people are all hanging out

847
00:52:41,840 --> 00:52:45,720
Speaker 2: backstage and at the big gigs and stuff, and here's

848
00:52:45,760 --> 00:52:49,239
Speaker 2: this band. Here's Jeff Pacaro on drums. Here's you know,

849
00:52:49,760 --> 00:52:53,200
Speaker 2: David Page on piano, the guy who wrote co wrote

850
00:52:53,200 --> 00:52:56,000
Speaker 2: all those songs on Silk Degrees. Here I am on synse.

851
00:52:56,080 --> 00:53:00,279
Speaker 2: There's Lucather on guitar. It pretty much was they a

852
00:53:00,280 --> 00:53:05,480
Speaker 2: saw Toto. You know, they saw this backing band. And

853
00:53:06,480 --> 00:53:08,319
Speaker 2: I think it's part of the reason why Toto never

854
00:53:08,360 --> 00:53:12,600
Speaker 2: had to do like a showcase or or anything like that.

855
00:53:12,680 --> 00:53:15,759
Speaker 2: Our record deal was pretty much handed to us on

856
00:53:15,800 --> 00:53:18,680
Speaker 2: a platter, you know, Columbia Records.

857
00:53:18,920 --> 00:53:24,279
Speaker 3: Okay, you're on the road with bass. That tour finishes,

858
00:53:24,680 --> 00:53:27,280
Speaker 3: then what then?

859
00:53:27,840 --> 00:53:31,920
Speaker 2: Much to my surprise, I was I was afraid that

860
00:53:32,200 --> 00:53:34,640
Speaker 2: David and Jeff. I had always wished for them to

861
00:53:34,800 --> 00:53:38,560
Speaker 2: start a band, but at that point I David was

862
00:53:38,640 --> 00:53:42,440
Speaker 2: so busy, was getting hired to produce and write and

863
00:53:42,560 --> 00:53:46,880
Speaker 2: sessions and Jeff's. Jeff's career was in full you know,

864
00:53:47,000 --> 00:53:50,200
Speaker 2: full bloom. Lucather and I were just starting out then.

865
00:53:50,320 --> 00:53:54,759
Speaker 2: This is seventy six, seventy seven. Our careers are just

866
00:53:54,880 --> 00:53:57,520
Speaker 2: kind of starting out. We're doing pretty good. I'm doing

867
00:53:57,600 --> 00:54:00,439
Speaker 2: all kinds of stuff with Foster by then, and he's

868
00:54:00,520 --> 00:54:04,520
Speaker 2: hiring me whenever he's doing synthesizers. He's got me there

869
00:54:04,520 --> 00:54:09,480
Speaker 2: with him. But I'm thinking, you know what, it's these

870
00:54:09,480 --> 00:54:11,439
Speaker 2: guys are never gonna want to do a band. Why

871
00:54:11,440 --> 00:54:13,960
Speaker 2: would they turn down all this work to stop and

872
00:54:14,000 --> 00:54:18,759
Speaker 2: rehearse and and build up a band thing? But sure enough,

873
00:54:18,760 --> 00:54:22,279
Speaker 2: that's exactly what they did. They decided. You know, I

874
00:54:22,320 --> 00:54:27,719
Speaker 2: think Silk Degrees was a huge encouragement to them that

875
00:54:28,160 --> 00:54:31,560
Speaker 2: they could maybe do it themselves, be the artist. There

876
00:54:31,680 --> 00:54:34,319
Speaker 2: just was this lead singer thing was the one thing

877
00:54:34,360 --> 00:54:38,200
Speaker 2: that wasn't part of our inner circle, you know.

878
00:54:39,080 --> 00:54:45,319
Speaker 3: Luca thir tells me that some of the old cats said, hey,

879
00:54:45,480 --> 00:54:49,799
Speaker 3: you're really happening now, but it ends for everybody. You

880
00:54:49,920 --> 00:54:54,280
Speaker 3: got to find your own thing. Did that ever play

881
00:54:54,280 --> 00:54:57,200
Speaker 3: to you or did you just basically get a call

882
00:54:57,239 --> 00:54:58,920
Speaker 3: one day, Hey, we're going to form a band.

883
00:55:00,080 --> 00:55:02,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was basically that. I mean, we all were

884
00:55:02,360 --> 00:55:04,919
Speaker 2: thrilled to get that call. I was in there very

885
00:55:04,920 --> 00:55:08,359
Speaker 2: early on. David knew he wanted you know, they saw

886
00:55:08,440 --> 00:55:10,560
Speaker 2: me with how I was with Gary Wright, how I

887
00:55:10,640 --> 00:55:14,000
Speaker 2: handled since with Gary Wright. They saw me. David and

888
00:55:14,040 --> 00:55:17,680
Speaker 2: I worked together with Boz. David saw that I was

889
00:55:18,040 --> 00:55:20,600
Speaker 2: very handy to be around, not only in the studio,

890
00:55:20,719 --> 00:55:23,799
Speaker 2: but that live I could you know what I mean,

891
00:55:23,920 --> 00:55:27,479
Speaker 2: synthesizers were becoming very popular, and that I could cover

892
00:55:27,560 --> 00:55:29,920
Speaker 2: a lot of overdubs. So I was kind of in

893
00:55:29,960 --> 00:55:33,960
Speaker 2: there real early on. Luke, they kind of yanked his chain.

894
00:55:34,040 --> 00:55:36,600
Speaker 2: There was a lot of guitar players. David had grown

895
00:55:36,680 --> 00:55:38,840
Speaker 2: up with some. There were a lot of friends that

896
00:55:38,880 --> 00:55:43,759
Speaker 2: were great guitar players. You know. Luka Thurb didn't know

897
00:55:44,000 --> 00:55:47,760
Speaker 2: for a while, but because David was doing these demo,

898
00:55:47,840 --> 00:55:50,319
Speaker 2: He was doing these demos just with just with my

899
00:55:50,400 --> 00:55:53,359
Speaker 2: brother Jeff, the two of them in the studio and

900
00:55:53,440 --> 00:55:57,160
Speaker 2: Patriot played mog bass and he would sing, was singing everything,

901
00:55:57,800 --> 00:55:59,680
Speaker 2: and the two of them kind of were building up

902
00:55:59,680 --> 00:56:04,560
Speaker 2: this batch of songs that were amazing, you know, that

903
00:56:04,600 --> 00:56:08,239
Speaker 2: were amazing. But when it got time to put it

904
00:56:08,280 --> 00:56:11,239
Speaker 2: all together, you know, he made the choice to use

905
00:56:11,320 --> 00:56:14,600
Speaker 2: hung Gate because they were really such this. You know,

906
00:56:14,719 --> 00:56:16,800
Speaker 2: my brother Mike was in the bands in high school

907
00:56:16,800 --> 00:56:21,040
Speaker 2: and Mike had played with bass, and Mike was was

908
00:56:21,120 --> 00:56:24,440
Speaker 2: would have been an obvious choice. But hung Gate, my

909
00:56:24,560 --> 00:56:29,239
Speaker 2: brother Jeff and Page were this core rhythm section thing

910
00:56:29,320 --> 00:56:32,400
Speaker 2: that had been doing a lot of sessions together, a

911
00:56:32,440 --> 00:56:35,640
Speaker 2: lot of stuff, stills and Crofts, all the boss Gag,

912
00:56:36,239 --> 00:56:41,320
Speaker 2: silk degree stuff. Hung Gate was an incredibly musical bass

913
00:56:41,360 --> 00:56:45,840
Speaker 2: player and I was in there right away and it

914
00:56:45,960 --> 00:56:49,080
Speaker 2: was like yes, and you know, to your question, we

915
00:56:49,200 --> 00:56:51,839
Speaker 2: all still were doing sessions. We all still when there

916
00:56:51,880 --> 00:56:54,960
Speaker 2: was time, we would do sessions. You know, we'd get

917
00:56:55,000 --> 00:56:57,239
Speaker 2: home from the road. And we were very lucky that way,

918
00:56:57,320 --> 00:57:00,000
Speaker 2: because a lot of guys once they commit to a band,

919
00:57:00,040 --> 00:57:03,279
Speaker 2: and a lot of times when you leave town and

920
00:57:03,360 --> 00:57:06,239
Speaker 2: the producer has to hire someone else, a lot of

921
00:57:06,280 --> 00:57:10,719
Speaker 2: times those guys get your gig. You know, they'll hire

922
00:57:10,760 --> 00:57:13,719
Speaker 2: a replacement for you, and that guy will will get

923
00:57:13,760 --> 00:57:17,880
Speaker 2: your job. But we all were pretty lucky that way

924
00:57:17,920 --> 00:57:20,560
Speaker 2: and would still get called back, you know, when we

925
00:57:20,560 --> 00:57:23,160
Speaker 2: were home and when we were available.

926
00:57:23,760 --> 00:57:28,280
Speaker 3: Before it's a band, do you have enough studio work

927
00:57:28,320 --> 00:57:31,760
Speaker 3: to make it work? For you or you thinking I

928
00:57:31,840 --> 00:57:35,080
Speaker 3: want another road gig or I need more studio work.

929
00:57:35,360 --> 00:57:36,960
Speaker 3: What's going on for you?

930
00:57:37,000 --> 00:57:39,600
Speaker 2: No, my career was just kind of doing this with

931
00:57:39,680 --> 00:57:42,560
Speaker 2: studio work. I was getting quite a lot of things.

932
00:57:42,800 --> 00:57:45,760
Speaker 2: I was getting better and better. It was just growing,

933
00:57:46,120 --> 00:57:50,440
Speaker 2: you know. Yeah, I mean I'm living. I was a

934
00:57:50,480 --> 00:57:55,160
Speaker 2: single guy living in a small apartment. I got married

935
00:57:55,200 --> 00:58:00,600
Speaker 2: soon after that, very young, at twenty years old. But

936
00:58:00,600 --> 00:58:04,520
Speaker 2: but yeah, no, my session career was just kind of

937
00:58:04,520 --> 00:58:08,320
Speaker 2: getting better and better. More guys were discovering me. Quincy

938
00:58:08,440 --> 00:58:11,200
Speaker 2: Jones would start hiring me without David with or without

939
00:58:11,280 --> 00:58:16,200
Speaker 2: David Foster. You know, David would hire me for everything

940
00:58:16,240 --> 00:58:19,880
Speaker 2: he was doing that used keyboards, that used since he

941
00:58:19,960 --> 00:58:22,960
Speaker 2: wanted me there all the time. And his career was

942
00:58:23,000 --> 00:58:26,400
Speaker 2: taking off big time with Chicago, and you know, it

943
00:58:26,480 --> 00:58:29,960
Speaker 2: was one thing after another with him. It just kept

944
00:58:30,040 --> 00:58:33,360
Speaker 2: getting better and better. In the tubes and Alice Cooper

945
00:58:33,520 --> 00:58:36,720
Speaker 2: and Hall and Oates we did two albums, and you know,

946
00:58:36,720 --> 00:58:41,400
Speaker 2: and Bill Shnae started hiring me, and you know, guys

947
00:58:41,400 --> 00:58:43,920
Speaker 2: started seeing that I was real handy to be around

948
00:58:43,920 --> 00:58:47,080
Speaker 2: in the studio, you know, either by myself or with

949
00:58:47,120 --> 00:58:49,960
Speaker 2: other keyboard players. I was very much a team player.

950
00:58:50,440 --> 00:58:54,000
Speaker 2: I played well with others and we got a lot done.

951
00:58:54,960 --> 00:58:57,120
Speaker 3: Tell me about getting married at twenty.

952
00:58:58,920 --> 00:58:59,760
Speaker 2: What would you like to know?

953
00:59:01,640 --> 00:59:06,120
Speaker 3: Okay, you meet a woman, how long after you meet

954
00:59:06,120 --> 00:59:09,120
Speaker 3: her do you get married? And what's the incentive to

955
00:59:09,160 --> 00:59:13,120
Speaker 3: get married? You know, you're in this unique world where

956
00:59:13,120 --> 00:59:15,560
Speaker 3: you're working, you know, morning, noon, and night in the studio,

957
00:59:15,600 --> 00:59:19,400
Speaker 3: we're off on the road. Is it security or is

958
00:59:19,480 --> 00:59:22,760
Speaker 3: it just this? Is you think you're in love? That's

959
00:59:22,920 --> 00:59:25,240
Speaker 3: very young by most people's standards.

960
00:59:25,640 --> 00:59:28,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I had a child then too. I didn't

961
00:59:28,960 --> 00:59:30,680
Speaker 2: think I was in love. I was in love.

962
00:59:33,720 --> 00:59:36,840
Speaker 3: So you got married because a child was on the way,

963
00:59:37,960 --> 00:59:42,680
Speaker 3: I was in love. How long did that marriage last?

964
00:59:45,040 --> 00:59:49,560
Speaker 2: That marriage lasted three years or so, three and a

965
00:59:49,600 --> 00:59:50,280
Speaker 2: half years.

966
00:59:50,520 --> 00:59:52,000
Speaker 3: So why did it end?

967
00:59:53,960 --> 00:59:59,560
Speaker 2: You know? I why did it end? Because my career

968
01:00:00,160 --> 01:00:05,480
Speaker 2: became all consuming to me. It became all consuming to me,

969
01:00:06,280 --> 01:00:10,480
Speaker 2: and I saw these opportunities that I had to take

970
01:00:10,520 --> 01:00:17,920
Speaker 2: advantage of, you know, and it was tough. It was

971
01:00:17,960 --> 01:00:20,640
Speaker 2: tough to be working twenty four to seven like that

972
01:00:21,080 --> 01:00:24,240
Speaker 2: and be it still be a human being and be

973
01:00:25,280 --> 01:00:26,480
Speaker 2: a partner in a marriage.

974
01:00:26,840 --> 01:00:31,920
Speaker 3: You know, So how many times you've been married twice,

975
01:00:32,600 --> 01:00:37,360
Speaker 3: And are you married now? No? So, how old were

976
01:00:37,360 --> 01:00:38,959
Speaker 3: you when you got married the second time?

977
01:00:39,960 --> 01:00:46,840
Speaker 2: Much older I was. I would say I was something

978
01:00:46,880 --> 01:00:49,640
Speaker 2: like thirty eight or something the next time I got married.

979
01:00:50,560 --> 01:00:54,040
Speaker 3: So once bitten twice, shy. How hard is it to

980
01:00:54,080 --> 01:00:57,800
Speaker 3: convince yourself to do it a second time again?

981
01:00:57,960 --> 01:01:03,400
Speaker 2: I was in love? You know? What can I say?

982
01:01:04,640 --> 01:01:06,360
Speaker 3: And why did that relationship end?

983
01:01:08,160 --> 01:01:08,280
Speaker 1: Uh?

984
01:01:08,840 --> 01:01:12,600
Speaker 2: It's kind of complicated. You know. I don't want to

985
01:01:12,600 --> 01:01:14,440
Speaker 2: pull anyone else's covers.

986
01:01:14,760 --> 01:01:15,680
Speaker 3: Okay, but it wasn't.

987
01:01:15,720 --> 01:01:18,240
Speaker 2: It wasn't a word note, No, it wasn't.

988
01:01:18,480 --> 01:01:22,680
Speaker 3: Okay. Let's go back to Tote so Page and your

989
01:01:22,680 --> 01:01:27,480
Speaker 3: brother working up this material and they pull you in.

990
01:01:28,280 --> 01:01:31,640
Speaker 3: How do you ultimately decide that you need a singer

991
01:01:31,760 --> 01:01:32,760
Speaker 3: and get a singer?

992
01:01:33,760 --> 01:01:36,800
Speaker 2: Well, they knew right away. I mean David, David wanted

993
01:01:36,840 --> 01:01:39,720
Speaker 2: to be you know, David, I think wanted to I

994
01:01:39,720 --> 01:01:41,600
Speaker 2: think in some ways he wanted to be Elton John

995
01:01:41,840 --> 01:01:45,880
Speaker 2: and you know, and writing all the songs to have

996
01:01:45,960 --> 01:01:48,040
Speaker 2: a thing, and he did great, and he sang all

997
01:01:48,080 --> 01:01:51,560
Speaker 2: the demos and these were amazing songs. And David did

998
01:01:51,560 --> 01:01:55,120
Speaker 2: a great job. But he knew he wanted a real

999
01:01:55,280 --> 01:01:58,120
Speaker 2: tenor in the band. He wanted someone with a high

1000
01:01:58,160 --> 01:02:03,120
Speaker 2: voice in the band, you know, especially in a rock

1001
01:02:03,160 --> 01:02:06,120
Speaker 2: and roll band, you wanted somebody that could cut, somebody

1002
01:02:06,160 --> 01:02:10,120
Speaker 2: that was a real singer, singer, and they had done some.

1003
01:02:10,440 --> 01:02:12,440
Speaker 2: They were good friends with a guy named Joe Shermy

1004
01:02:12,680 --> 01:02:15,600
Speaker 2: who was the bass player in Three Dog Knight, and

1005
01:02:15,680 --> 01:02:19,120
Speaker 2: he had a band called ss Fools after Three Dog Night,

1006
01:02:19,480 --> 01:02:22,280
Speaker 2: and there was a singer in SS Fools named Bobby Kimball.

1007
01:02:23,480 --> 01:02:28,080
Speaker 2: And that's how David and Jeff met Bobby, who wound

1008
01:02:28,160 --> 01:02:29,600
Speaker 2: up being Toto's lead singer.

1009
01:02:30,400 --> 01:02:35,400
Speaker 3: Okay, Bobby is in the band, then he isn't in

1010
01:02:35,440 --> 01:02:39,880
Speaker 3: the band. Ultimately what went on that he was no

1011
01:02:39,960 --> 01:02:40,840
Speaker 3: longer in the band?

1012
01:02:41,800 --> 01:02:45,880
Speaker 2: You know, it was the usual stuff in the early eighties,

1013
01:02:45,960 --> 01:02:52,880
Speaker 2: to be honest with you, you know, quite honestly. I mean,

1014
01:02:52,920 --> 01:02:56,320
Speaker 2: we were all we were all at the party, so

1015
01:02:56,400 --> 01:02:59,400
Speaker 2: to speak. But when you're the lead singer of the band,

1016
01:03:00,080 --> 01:03:02,680
Speaker 2: there's a time when you can pull that off those

1017
01:03:02,760 --> 01:03:06,840
Speaker 2: late nights and heavy drinking and whatever and still do

1018
01:03:06,960 --> 01:03:10,560
Speaker 2: your gig. But after a while it takes its toll.

1019
01:03:11,080 --> 01:03:13,760
Speaker 2: And you know what I mean, I can say that

1020
01:03:13,880 --> 01:03:18,080
Speaker 2: Bobby wasn't wasn't doing anything the rest of us weren't doing,

1021
01:03:19,120 --> 01:03:22,479
Speaker 2: but he was the lead singer, and it just would

1022
01:03:22,480 --> 01:03:26,480
Speaker 2: become a parent when he couldn't perform, when he couldn't

1023
01:03:26,600 --> 01:03:28,680
Speaker 2: you know what I mean? We were all very good

1024
01:03:28,720 --> 01:03:34,720
Speaker 2: at doing what we did. Regardless of how much partying

1025
01:03:34,800 --> 01:03:37,640
Speaker 2: was going on or not. We could still deliver in

1026
01:03:37,680 --> 01:03:42,760
Speaker 2: a very big way. We still were highly functioning. You know,

1027
01:03:44,000 --> 01:03:49,000
Speaker 2: we were all highly functioning. But you know, when you've

1028
01:03:49,120 --> 01:03:51,720
Speaker 2: got a stage and everyone on stage has strep throat,

1029
01:03:51,840 --> 01:03:53,640
Speaker 2: it's going to be You're going to notice the singer

1030
01:03:54,360 --> 01:03:58,840
Speaker 2: has strep throat. You're not going to notice the second

1031
01:03:58,920 --> 01:04:02,440
Speaker 2: keyboard player also strep throat, or the drummer has strep throat,

1032
01:04:02,680 --> 01:04:04,600
Speaker 2: or the bass player has stripped you know what I mean.

1033
01:04:05,720 --> 01:04:09,160
Speaker 3: Okay, at this late day, looking back, there are a

1034
01:04:09,280 --> 01:04:13,439
Speaker 3: number of bands that changed lead singers and survived Van

1035
01:04:13,560 --> 01:04:18,840
Speaker 3: Halen Genesis. Okay, but usually then and still now, it's

1036
01:04:18,840 --> 01:04:21,560
Speaker 3: a kiss of death. So how much did you wring

1037
01:04:21,640 --> 01:04:24,320
Speaker 3: your hands and how much warning did you give Bobby

1038
01:04:24,400 --> 01:04:26,080
Speaker 3: to say, hey, this is going in the wrong direction.

1039
01:04:27,760 --> 01:04:31,240
Speaker 2: You know, look at look what you just mentioned. I

1040
01:04:31,400 --> 01:04:35,760
Speaker 2: can't think of I almost can't think of one band.

1041
01:04:37,640 --> 01:04:41,600
Speaker 2: Who do you want to talk about Journey Foreigner. Who

1042
01:04:41,640 --> 01:04:44,520
Speaker 2: else is there? I mean, we could go van Halet,

1043
01:04:44,520 --> 01:04:48,440
Speaker 2: we could go on and on, and every one of

1044
01:04:48,480 --> 01:04:54,320
Speaker 2: them had lead singer nightmares, every one of them. Now

1045
01:04:54,840 --> 01:04:58,560
Speaker 2: to empathize with the lead singers, by the way, you

1046
01:04:58,560 --> 01:05:00,480
Speaker 2: know when you're doing a rock and roll band. When

1047
01:05:00,480 --> 01:05:03,560
Speaker 2: you're doing rock and roll, there was always this thing, right,

1048
01:05:03,680 --> 01:05:07,240
Speaker 2: it's a producer's job to find where is the where

1049
01:05:07,280 --> 01:05:09,960
Speaker 2: do they sound the best? What's the best key to

1050
01:05:10,040 --> 01:05:12,200
Speaker 2: do this song in? This is what you learn from

1051
01:05:12,200 --> 01:05:15,160
Speaker 2: a David Foster and a Quincy Jones. You want that

1052
01:05:15,280 --> 01:05:17,840
Speaker 2: lead singer when it hits the chorus. You want that

1053
01:05:18,000 --> 01:05:21,600
Speaker 2: vocal and a range where your singer sounds the best,

1054
01:05:21,920 --> 01:05:25,360
Speaker 2: where there's the best wood, where there's the right amount

1055
01:05:25,400 --> 01:05:29,800
Speaker 2: of straining as opposed to how comfortable they're able to

1056
01:05:29,840 --> 01:05:33,240
Speaker 2: sing it. Right, you're making a record. You're not worried

1057
01:05:33,240 --> 01:05:37,040
Speaker 2: about anything else but making the best record you can make,

1058
01:05:37,760 --> 01:05:40,360
Speaker 2: and you want that in the perfect key for your singer.

1059
01:05:41,200 --> 01:05:47,040
Speaker 2: Now ten years later, okay, is that still the and

1060
01:05:47,080 --> 01:05:49,600
Speaker 2: a singer's got to go out on the road and

1061
01:05:49,720 --> 01:05:54,800
Speaker 2: sing those songs one after another. Sometimes it's like like

1062
01:05:54,840 --> 01:05:57,360
Speaker 2: I said, it's easy for the drummer to play in

1063
01:05:57,400 --> 01:06:01,280
Speaker 2: that same key, It's easy for the keyboard player to

1064
01:06:01,360 --> 01:06:04,360
Speaker 2: play in that same key. Who's it the hardest on

1065
01:06:05,560 --> 01:06:09,080
Speaker 2: the lead singer? Okay? And sometimes those guys can't hit

1066
01:06:09,160 --> 01:06:13,520
Speaker 2: those notes anymore. You know, they weren't hitting them comfortably.

1067
01:06:14,040 --> 01:06:17,720
Speaker 2: This wasn't Tony Bennett or Frank Sinatra. These are This

1068
01:06:17,920 --> 01:06:26,320
Speaker 2: was rock and roll. You know, I really empathized with

1069
01:06:26,360 --> 01:06:31,920
Speaker 2: these singers, you know, Steve Perry, Lou Graham. Look at

1070
01:06:31,960 --> 01:06:36,480
Speaker 2: all these guys struggled with being able to deliver at

1071
01:06:36,480 --> 01:06:41,440
Speaker 2: the level that you know their bandmates insisted on them delivering.

1072
01:06:41,880 --> 01:06:44,440
Speaker 3: Okay, how much warning do you give Kimball and what

1073
01:06:44,480 --> 01:06:47,080
Speaker 3: does he say when the acts comes down?

1074
01:06:47,280 --> 01:06:49,600
Speaker 2: You know, it was very simple. You know, Toto had

1075
01:06:49,600 --> 01:06:53,360
Speaker 2: this huge success with Total four. It was heartbreaking. We

1076
01:06:53,480 --> 01:06:59,000
Speaker 2: had found our chemistry, We had found we had found

1077
01:06:59,160 --> 01:07:03,920
Speaker 2: what clicks, what works for us. The mixer had nothing

1078
01:07:03,960 --> 01:07:05,920
Speaker 2: to do with the rest of the album. He was

1079
01:07:05,960 --> 01:07:09,960
Speaker 2: hearing everything fresh with fresh ears. He had none of

1080
01:07:10,000 --> 01:07:13,880
Speaker 2: the band politics in his head when he was mixing

1081
01:07:13,920 --> 01:07:18,840
Speaker 2: the album. They had let me do my synthesizers by

1082
01:07:18,920 --> 01:07:22,680
Speaker 2: myself in a studio. I'd learned to record. During the

1083
01:07:22,920 --> 01:07:25,280
Speaker 2: course of the third album, I had learned to record,

1084
01:07:25,800 --> 01:07:29,120
Speaker 2: to learn just basic gain structure and how to record

1085
01:07:29,200 --> 01:07:31,680
Speaker 2: my stuff so that the band didn't need to be

1086
01:07:31,760 --> 01:07:35,240
Speaker 2: sitting there for hours while I was experimenting, and I

1087
01:07:35,280 --> 01:07:39,480
Speaker 2: could record after experimenting for a couple of days, when

1088
01:07:39,520 --> 01:07:42,960
Speaker 2: I got some magical thing up, which again in those days,

1089
01:07:43,040 --> 01:07:45,440
Speaker 2: a lot of these things didn't have presets. I was

1090
01:07:45,520 --> 01:07:49,200
Speaker 2: using modular synthesizers. You talk about the difference between a

1091
01:07:49,240 --> 01:07:53,240
Speaker 2: twenty five hundred and a mog modular as opposed to

1092
01:07:53,240 --> 01:07:58,400
Speaker 2: a mini mogue. To recreate these things was very difficult.

1093
01:07:58,520 --> 01:08:00,640
Speaker 2: Once it all got up and working, I learned how

1094
01:08:00,680 --> 01:08:04,000
Speaker 2: to record and it got to be used on the record.

1095
01:08:06,960 --> 01:08:10,480
Speaker 2: We had figured it out. But then we had been

1096
01:08:10,520 --> 01:08:14,560
Speaker 2: working so hard up to that point. You have to understand,

1097
01:08:14,600 --> 01:08:18,280
Speaker 2: we'd been just constantly in the studio or on the

1098
01:08:18,360 --> 01:08:22,160
Speaker 2: road up to that point. By the time we did

1099
01:08:22,240 --> 01:08:26,080
Speaker 2: Total four and it was hugely successful and we toured

1100
01:08:26,160 --> 01:08:30,559
Speaker 2: behind it, everybody was exhausted and kind of needed a break,

1101
01:08:30,720 --> 01:08:34,160
Speaker 2: and you know what, it was the wrong time to

1102
01:08:34,240 --> 01:08:36,880
Speaker 2: take a break, you know, the old strike while the

1103
01:08:36,920 --> 01:08:39,920
Speaker 2: iron is hot. You know, couldn't have been more apropos,

1104
01:08:40,040 --> 01:08:43,360
Speaker 2: and we wound up doing a film score so that

1105
01:08:43,400 --> 01:08:47,280
Speaker 2: we could stay home. My brother Jeff got married and

1106
01:08:47,320 --> 01:08:52,439
Speaker 2: started a family. He wanted to be home. And then

1107
01:08:52,600 --> 01:08:57,000
Speaker 2: when we finally got around to making a follow up

1108
01:08:57,000 --> 01:09:02,400
Speaker 2: to Total four, you know, a lot of the bad habits,

1109
01:09:02,479 --> 01:09:05,040
Speaker 2: let's say, that had been developing, had gotten to a

1110
01:09:05,080 --> 01:09:10,200
Speaker 2: point where people just couldn't perform at the level they

1111
01:09:10,200 --> 01:09:15,320
Speaker 2: wanted to that we needed them to, and we wound

1112
01:09:15,439 --> 01:09:20,120
Speaker 2: up having to switch lead singers, which was we hated doing.

1113
01:09:20,720 --> 01:09:26,240
Speaker 2: We hated doing that, you know, it was really it

1114
01:09:26,280 --> 01:09:30,639
Speaker 2: was really traumatic for the band. And in that time

1115
01:09:30,720 --> 01:09:33,080
Speaker 2: period when I say, strike while the iron is hot,

1116
01:09:33,520 --> 01:09:36,519
Speaker 2: all of a sudden, soon after the nineteen eighty two,

1117
01:09:36,560 --> 01:09:39,479
Speaker 2: eighty three Grammys whenever, it was all of a sudden,

1118
01:09:39,520 --> 01:09:45,000
Speaker 2: that style of music that polished kind of what our

1119
01:09:45,000 --> 01:09:50,160
Speaker 2: detractors called corporate rock, you know, suddenly became very unpopular.

1120
01:09:51,680 --> 01:09:54,800
Speaker 2: You know, bands like Nirvana were kind of all of

1121
01:09:54,840 --> 01:09:58,479
Speaker 2: a sudden, you know, real popular. The whole Seattle thing

1122
01:09:58,600 --> 01:10:04,519
Speaker 2: was starting to happen, that whole style of music, you know,

1123
01:10:04,960 --> 01:10:11,160
Speaker 2: with these synthesizer extravaganzas, you know what I mean, We're

1124
01:10:11,240 --> 01:10:16,679
Speaker 2: becoming very unpopular, you know, and the record company kind

1125
01:10:16,680 --> 01:10:20,400
Speaker 2: of let us know. They weren't. They weren't as thrilled

1126
01:10:20,479 --> 01:10:22,559
Speaker 2: as they were. I mean, if we had delivered another

1127
01:10:22,880 --> 01:10:25,200
Speaker 2: enough other hits, they'd be okay. But you know what,

1128
01:10:25,360 --> 01:10:30,679
Speaker 2: it just the music world was changing and we were changing.

1129
01:10:31,240 --> 01:10:34,519
Speaker 2: And that's the best way I can think of of

1130
01:10:34,640 --> 01:10:35,040
Speaker 2: putting it.

1131
01:10:41,640 --> 01:10:44,919
Speaker 3: Let's go back to the first album. Sure, first album.

1132
01:10:44,960 --> 01:10:47,439
Speaker 3: You know, you guys had a lot of experience. But

1133
01:10:47,600 --> 01:10:51,160
Speaker 3: did you go in there and knock it right out?

1134
01:10:51,320 --> 01:10:52,840
Speaker 3: Or was the type of thing where you had so

1135
01:10:52,960 --> 01:10:57,679
Speaker 3: much experience and you had enough money to meticulously get

1136
01:10:57,720 --> 01:10:59,880
Speaker 3: it how you want? What was the experience recording the

1137
01:11:00,040 --> 01:11:00,719
Speaker 3: first album?

1138
01:11:01,320 --> 01:11:03,680
Speaker 2: We knocked it right out. You know, we had all

1139
01:11:03,720 --> 01:11:07,320
Speaker 2: these great demos, We had all these songs ready to go.

1140
01:11:07,479 --> 01:11:10,800
Speaker 2: The record company loved the demos that we had, and

1141
01:11:11,400 --> 01:11:13,720
Speaker 2: we went in there like the pros we were and

1142
01:11:13,840 --> 01:11:18,160
Speaker 2: knocked it out and had a ball doing it. And

1143
01:11:18,200 --> 01:11:20,479
Speaker 2: the record company would come and listen and they were

1144
01:11:20,560 --> 01:11:24,280
Speaker 2: loving it. And the first single out of the gate

1145
01:11:24,400 --> 01:11:28,240
Speaker 2: pulled the line hit record, you know, boom.

1146
01:11:30,000 --> 01:11:32,080
Speaker 3: So once should think it's one thing to play on

1147
01:11:32,120 --> 01:11:35,240
Speaker 3: somebody else's hit records. It's quite another to have your

1148
01:11:35,280 --> 01:11:36,240
Speaker 3: own hit record.

1149
01:11:36,840 --> 01:11:39,160
Speaker 2: It sure is, and we've seen plenty. There had been

1150
01:11:39,200 --> 01:11:42,960
Speaker 2: plenty of studio musician bands and I'm not gonna name

1151
01:11:43,000 --> 01:11:45,679
Speaker 2: any names, but there were several bands where a lot

1152
01:11:45,760 --> 01:11:50,519
Speaker 2: of very very successful studio musicians put bands together, and

1153
01:11:51,840 --> 01:11:54,800
Speaker 2: like you said, you know, it was very different to

1154
01:11:56,439 --> 01:11:58,479
Speaker 2: just to do that and to actually have it be

1155
01:11:58,600 --> 01:12:01,679
Speaker 2: successful and have it clicked, and have the stars align,

1156
01:12:02,200 --> 01:12:04,439
Speaker 2: and have the record company back you up and have

1157
01:12:04,520 --> 01:12:07,360
Speaker 2: great management at the time that knew how to work

1158
01:12:07,400 --> 01:12:11,320
Speaker 2: the record company and have the right representation, and you know,

1159
01:12:11,360 --> 01:12:14,360
Speaker 2: the stars aligned, you know for us.

1160
01:12:14,960 --> 01:12:18,679
Speaker 3: Okay, now it comes times to make a second record.

1161
01:12:19,200 --> 01:12:21,599
Speaker 3: A lot of acts, you know, have the second record

1162
01:12:21,640 --> 01:12:24,880
Speaker 3: blues a million reasons because of success on the first one,

1163
01:12:25,040 --> 01:12:27,679
Speaker 3: or they took years to write all the material that's

1164
01:12:27,680 --> 01:12:30,759
Speaker 3: on the first album. What was the experience with Toto

1165
01:12:30,840 --> 01:12:31,839
Speaker 3: on the second album?

1166
01:12:32,280 --> 01:12:34,360
Speaker 2: You know, there was a little bit of that there.

1167
01:12:34,479 --> 01:12:38,320
Speaker 2: Believe me, I've always been well aware of that. Everyone

1168
01:12:38,400 --> 01:12:42,479
Speaker 2: has to read. You know. Again, you kind of hinted

1169
01:12:42,479 --> 01:12:46,479
Speaker 2: at it. But the truth is, every band's first album

1170
01:12:46,840 --> 01:12:51,639
Speaker 2: is the best stuff they've done their entire life. Okay,

1171
01:12:52,600 --> 01:12:55,400
Speaker 2: maybe something was written two weeks ago. But I guarantee

1172
01:12:55,400 --> 01:12:57,840
Speaker 2: you there's some song on there that was written when

1173
01:12:57,840 --> 01:13:01,240
Speaker 2: they were in high school or something. You know, this

1174
01:13:01,280 --> 01:13:05,360
Speaker 2: is the culmination of the best stuff this band has

1175
01:13:05,439 --> 01:13:08,799
Speaker 2: done their entire life. This is for every single band

1176
01:13:09,200 --> 01:13:13,280
Speaker 2: out there. Okay. Then you go on the road, maybe

1177
01:13:13,320 --> 01:13:16,519
Speaker 2: you get divorced, you know whatever. You know, you go

1178
01:13:16,560 --> 01:13:18,920
Speaker 2: on the road and within a year you got a

1179
01:13:18,920 --> 01:13:22,280
Speaker 2: record company going. You got two months, you got you know,

1180
01:13:22,360 --> 01:13:29,000
Speaker 2: maybe three months do it again. You know, it really

1181
01:13:29,080 --> 01:13:32,320
Speaker 2: separates the men from the boys. You know, it really

1182
01:13:32,360 --> 01:13:36,200
Speaker 2: separates the men from the boys. Every single band you

1183
01:13:36,240 --> 01:13:39,000
Speaker 2: can name, their first album was the best shit they

1184
01:13:39,040 --> 01:13:43,479
Speaker 2: did their entire life. Okay. And then in those days,

1185
01:13:43,560 --> 01:13:46,479
Speaker 2: it was every year we had to do a new album.

1186
01:13:47,280 --> 01:13:50,960
Speaker 2: It was every year. Okay. And this is after you've toured.

1187
01:13:51,960 --> 01:13:53,800
Speaker 2: Have you spent any time with your family at all.

1188
01:13:53,880 --> 01:13:57,240
Speaker 2: They don't care. Give us another We need another one,

1189
01:13:57,280 --> 01:14:00,760
Speaker 2: you know, we want another one. Now. We did real good.

1190
01:14:00,800 --> 01:14:03,479
Speaker 2: That first album was you did great, Give us another one,

1191
01:14:03,600 --> 01:14:08,760
Speaker 2: So sophomore jinks. It's like, to me, it's so obvious. Uh.

1192
01:14:08,840 --> 01:14:11,960
Speaker 2: And and that was we still had we had a

1193
01:14:11,960 --> 01:14:13,720
Speaker 2: lot of power. You know. It's not like we were

1194
01:14:13,800 --> 01:14:17,120
Speaker 2: running out of songs. David Page was still, you know,

1195
01:14:17,200 --> 01:14:20,680
Speaker 2: reaching his peak as a songwriter. We all were. There

1196
01:14:20,680 --> 01:14:23,920
Speaker 2: were a lot of writers in the band. You know,

1197
01:14:24,000 --> 01:14:26,759
Speaker 2: did we get a little cocky after that first album

1198
01:14:26,880 --> 01:14:29,280
Speaker 2: did did so good out of the gate? You know

1199
01:14:29,320 --> 01:14:33,800
Speaker 2: what I mean? Sure? Sure, Hydro was we were kinda

1200
01:14:34,640 --> 01:14:37,240
Speaker 2: there was some aspect about it that, believe me, we

1201
01:14:37,240 --> 01:14:40,200
Speaker 2: were going for it. We were. We did get a

1202
01:14:40,240 --> 01:14:44,880
Speaker 2: little cocky for sure and kind of thought, wow, we

1203
01:14:45,000 --> 01:14:48,040
Speaker 2: can do this. They're they're they're buying it. We looked

1204
01:14:48,040 --> 01:14:51,680
Speaker 2: at each other and was like, you know, uh uh,

1205
01:14:51,800 --> 01:14:55,920
Speaker 2: there was some definitely self indulgent there. I can speak

1206
01:14:55,960 --> 01:14:58,720
Speaker 2: for my song that was on Hydra, the song called

1207
01:14:58,760 --> 01:15:02,599
Speaker 2: Secret Love was the weirdest two and a half minutes

1208
01:15:03,600 --> 01:15:05,280
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, you'll hear on a major

1209
01:15:05,360 --> 01:15:11,559
Speaker 2: label release. I had called in this at Sunset Sound.

1210
01:15:11,600 --> 01:15:14,760
Speaker 2: I woke up one morning. I called this place called

1211
01:15:14,840 --> 01:15:19,480
Speaker 2: Kasimov Blutener in Larchmont in California, and I rented a harpsichord,

1212
01:15:19,880 --> 01:15:24,719
Speaker 2: a clavichord, a Mozart piano. I rented all these these

1213
01:15:24,960 --> 01:15:31,160
Speaker 2: vintage keyboards, acoustic keyboards, and had this idea for this

1214
01:15:31,479 --> 01:15:35,400
Speaker 2: very strange song and the guys let me do it.

1215
01:15:35,880 --> 01:15:39,360
Speaker 2: They let me do it. It's on the album. It's called

1216
01:15:39,400 --> 01:15:42,400
Speaker 2: Secret Love. You know, Bobby Kimball did a vocal on it.

1217
01:15:42,479 --> 01:15:46,880
Speaker 2: I couldn't believe what he came up with. It's a

1218
01:15:47,040 --> 01:15:50,519
Speaker 2: very weird song. We were going for it. We were

1219
01:15:50,520 --> 01:15:54,240
Speaker 2: going for it, and we were a little cocky for sure.

1220
01:15:55,320 --> 01:16:00,240
Speaker 3: Okay, Hold the line was ubiquitous on the radio, to

1221
01:16:00,280 --> 01:16:04,840
Speaker 3: the point where there was even some backlash. The first

1222
01:16:04,920 --> 01:16:07,519
Speaker 3: Toto album I bought was the second one, because I

1223
01:16:07,600 --> 01:16:11,720
Speaker 3: heard ninety nine on an airplane radio when that used

1224
01:16:11,720 --> 01:16:16,080
Speaker 3: to be a thing. I thought that Hydra was really

1225
01:16:16,160 --> 01:16:21,120
Speaker 3: pretty good. Yeah, it was nowhere near as successful commercially

1226
01:16:21,120 --> 01:16:24,680
Speaker 3: as the first. So when it's all played out, what

1227
01:16:24,720 --> 01:16:26,960
Speaker 3: do you guys think? Do you think, Well, maybe we

1228
01:16:27,040 --> 01:16:29,760
Speaker 3: didn't do the best work, or the audience didn't get it,

1229
01:16:29,880 --> 01:16:32,880
Speaker 3: or what was the review from the inside?

1230
01:16:32,640 --> 01:16:36,400
Speaker 2: We love, we loved, we loved Hydra. We loved it.

1231
01:16:38,080 --> 01:16:41,120
Speaker 2: Did we get did we get a little cocky? Sure? Now,

1232
01:16:41,160 --> 01:16:44,000
Speaker 2: I don't think being cocky is necessarily a bad thing

1233
01:16:44,280 --> 01:16:49,559
Speaker 2: unless you get way, way, way too cocky. And you know,

1234
01:16:51,320 --> 01:16:53,400
Speaker 2: were there any hole of the lines on it? No?

1235
01:16:53,479 --> 01:16:56,000
Speaker 2: But there sure was a song called ninety nine and stuff.

1236
01:16:56,000 --> 01:16:58,960
Speaker 2: There's still was stuff that people could relate to and

1237
01:16:59,080 --> 01:17:04,320
Speaker 2: was still great songwriting and great production, and you know,

1238
01:17:04,360 --> 01:17:06,519
Speaker 2: it's still there was still a lot of very strong

1239
01:17:06,560 --> 01:17:08,200
Speaker 2: stuff on there, you know what I mean.

1240
01:17:10,240 --> 01:17:14,080
Speaker 3: Okay, on that album, the first album credit for producer

1241
01:17:14,160 --> 01:17:18,080
Speaker 3: is the band second one you get Tom Knox, Reggie Fisher.

1242
01:17:18,560 --> 01:17:22,120
Speaker 3: Is that just slicing up the credit for money or

1243
01:17:22,280 --> 01:17:25,040
Speaker 3: why were other people involved in What did they do well?

1244
01:17:25,160 --> 01:17:28,519
Speaker 2: I I you know, Tom Knox was our longtime engineer.

1245
01:17:28,600 --> 01:17:31,040
Speaker 2: Tom Knox did the did the demos when the guys

1246
01:17:31,040 --> 01:17:33,920
Speaker 2: did the demos. He engineered and mixed all of the

1247
01:17:33,960 --> 01:17:38,120
Speaker 2: first album. Reggie Fisher, the only thing Reggie Fisher did

1248
01:17:38,240 --> 01:17:41,720
Speaker 2: was he did my synthesizer stuff. You know. That's the

1249
01:17:41,760 --> 01:17:45,160
Speaker 2: only thing Reggie Fisher did on Hydro was my synthesizer stuff,

1250
01:17:45,200 --> 01:17:48,880
Speaker 2: which by then I had gotten this modular synthesizer and

1251
01:17:48,960 --> 01:17:52,599
Speaker 2: I it lived at Reggie's house. Reggie had a home

1252
01:17:52,680 --> 01:17:55,400
Speaker 2: studio and that's where I was living at the time,

1253
01:17:56,120 --> 01:17:59,400
Speaker 2: and you know what I mean, just tweaking it and

1254
01:17:59,439 --> 01:18:03,360
Speaker 2: working on this song secret Love. Yeah, I kind of

1255
01:18:03,400 --> 01:18:06,599
Speaker 2: saw where they got. I don't know if they got

1256
01:18:06,600 --> 01:18:10,439
Speaker 2: production credit. I don't think they ever officially got production credit,

1257
01:18:10,560 --> 01:18:13,080
Speaker 2: regardless of what it might say on the record. We

1258
01:18:13,080 --> 01:18:17,120
Speaker 2: were the producers. Again, Toto was always the producer, except

1259
01:18:17,200 --> 01:18:19,720
Speaker 2: on the third album it was I believe it was

1260
01:18:19,800 --> 01:18:23,080
Speaker 2: co produced by Jeff Workman, who was our engineer and

1261
01:18:23,120 --> 01:18:24,240
Speaker 2: mixer on the third album.

1262
01:18:24,360 --> 01:18:26,479
Speaker 3: Okay, so why did you bring in Workmen?

1263
01:18:28,040 --> 01:18:33,080
Speaker 2: You know, lou especially Luke, wanted us. We were kind

1264
01:18:33,080 --> 01:18:36,559
Speaker 2: of whereas Toto did a lot of If you listen

1265
01:18:37,160 --> 01:18:40,800
Speaker 2: to everything on the first album and on Hydra, there

1266
01:18:40,840 --> 01:18:43,080
Speaker 2: was plenty of rock and roll. We thought we were

1267
01:18:43,240 --> 01:18:46,639
Speaker 2: very kind of all over the map, doing all kinds

1268
01:18:46,640 --> 01:18:49,559
Speaker 2: of different stuff. The things that were getting attention were

1269
01:18:49,560 --> 01:18:53,000
Speaker 2: the things like ninety nine, like the R and B

1270
01:18:53,160 --> 01:18:57,600
Speaker 2: stuff like Georgie Porgy. Some of the softer stuff was

1271
01:18:57,640 --> 01:19:00,920
Speaker 2: getting a little bit too much attention, especially for Luke,

1272
01:19:00,920 --> 01:19:03,479
Speaker 2: who was a raal rock and roller, and we wanted

1273
01:19:03,520 --> 01:19:05,600
Speaker 2: to bring in a more rock and roll guy, a

1274
01:19:05,640 --> 01:19:10,000
Speaker 2: guy who would turn the guitars up louder, a guy

1275
01:19:10,040 --> 01:19:12,920
Speaker 2: with some rock and roll experience. You know.

1276
01:19:14,600 --> 01:19:17,680
Speaker 3: Okay, that album is a stiff, So what do you

1277
01:19:17,720 --> 01:19:18,479
Speaker 3: think about that?

1278
01:19:21,320 --> 01:19:23,559
Speaker 2: It was a stiff? There's still some stuff on there

1279
01:19:23,600 --> 01:19:28,120
Speaker 2: that that I'm proud of. Jeff Workman and I did

1280
01:19:28,160 --> 01:19:32,200
Speaker 2: not get along at all during the making of the record.

1281
01:19:32,960 --> 01:19:36,680
Speaker 2: You know, we didn't get along at all. He was

1282
01:19:36,800 --> 01:19:39,760
Speaker 2: used to working with, you know, rock and roll bands,

1283
01:19:39,800 --> 01:19:44,439
Speaker 2: Like who did he work with was guns and not

1284
01:19:44,479 --> 01:19:47,839
Speaker 2: Guns n' Roses, but worked with Queen.

1285
01:19:47,960 --> 01:19:49,519
Speaker 3: He worked with a million bands.

1286
01:19:49,840 --> 01:19:51,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, he worked with a million bands. And you know what,

1287
01:19:51,800 --> 01:19:54,680
Speaker 2: I think he was used to being the if there

1288
01:19:54,800 --> 01:19:57,360
Speaker 2: was a second keyboard player, if there was a guy

1289
01:19:57,360 --> 01:20:00,040
Speaker 2: who did a little bit of sense stuff, he he

1290
01:20:00,120 --> 01:20:02,840
Speaker 2: did that. He was the guy who did that on

1291
01:20:02,880 --> 01:20:07,080
Speaker 2: a lot of the stuff he did. I, you know,

1292
01:20:07,160 --> 01:20:10,080
Speaker 2: that was my job, and him and I bumped head's

1293
01:20:10,320 --> 01:20:13,439
Speaker 2: big time during the making of that record. Now, the

1294
01:20:13,479 --> 01:20:17,639
Speaker 2: only reason I even mentioned that is because after that record,

1295
01:20:19,360 --> 01:20:22,280
Speaker 2: I while we were making that record, while the guys

1296
01:20:22,280 --> 01:20:25,400
Speaker 2: were in the studio with Workmen, I was working away

1297
01:20:25,439 --> 01:20:30,000
Speaker 2: at David Page's house with all my synthesizers, with all

1298
01:20:30,040 --> 01:20:33,640
Speaker 2: this modular gear, and I had an eight track. I

1299
01:20:33,680 --> 01:20:37,760
Speaker 2: had an eight track tape machine, and I transferred the

1300
01:20:37,880 --> 01:20:40,120
Speaker 2: rough rhythm tracks to two of the tracks of the

1301
01:20:40,200 --> 01:20:44,400
Speaker 2: eight track, and I was going to experiment I was

1302
01:20:44,439 --> 01:20:47,400
Speaker 2: going to figure out what I would do when it

1303
01:20:47,439 --> 01:20:53,200
Speaker 2: was time to record the synthesizers for that album. You know,

1304
01:20:53,400 --> 01:20:55,600
Speaker 2: because when I would record, you know, i'd have the

1305
01:20:55,640 --> 01:20:58,360
Speaker 2: whole band would be there. You know, those guys were

1306
01:20:58,439 --> 01:21:01,400
Speaker 2: so good, they were so fat, they were so good

1307
01:21:01,400 --> 01:21:06,559
Speaker 2: at what they did. And whereas I could do things fast,

1308
01:21:06,640 --> 01:21:09,320
Speaker 2: I got hired because I could. You know, Quincy Jones,

1309
01:21:09,360 --> 01:21:11,559
Speaker 2: David Foster would hire me because I could do the

1310
01:21:11,560 --> 01:21:14,200
Speaker 2: synth over dubs on three songs and in three hours.

1311
01:21:14,720 --> 01:21:18,800
Speaker 2: I could be that guy. But I wanted what I

1312
01:21:18,840 --> 01:21:21,759
Speaker 2: did in Toto to be special. This was my band.

1313
01:21:22,800 --> 01:21:26,600
Speaker 2: Whereas what when Luke played a guitar solo, whether regardless

1314
01:21:26,600 --> 01:21:29,719
Speaker 2: of whether it was for his own album, a Toto album,

1315
01:21:30,120 --> 01:21:34,439
Speaker 2: a Quincy Jones album, a Michael Jackson, he played the same, great,

1316
01:21:34,520 --> 01:21:37,640
Speaker 2: amazing guitar solo. You know, My brother Jeff played the

1317
01:21:38,000 --> 01:21:40,280
Speaker 2: you know, I mean Jeff, I have to say stretched

1318
01:21:40,280 --> 01:21:43,639
Speaker 2: with Africa and with some other things because it was Toto,

1319
01:21:44,120 --> 01:21:47,240
Speaker 2: he would indulge a little bit. But anyway, the point

1320
01:21:47,280 --> 01:21:49,960
Speaker 2: being that these guys were real fast, and I was

1321
01:21:50,000 --> 01:21:53,920
Speaker 2: always thinking like an arranger, and I wanted the respect

1322
01:21:54,000 --> 01:21:56,720
Speaker 2: that an arranger got I wanted to take home. I

1323
01:21:56,720 --> 01:21:59,280
Speaker 2: wanted to write out my parts. I wanted to try

1324
01:21:59,320 --> 01:22:03,040
Speaker 2: different voices. I didn't want to just improvise a string

1325
01:22:03,160 --> 01:22:07,040
Speaker 2: arrangement like I was called upon to do a whole bunch. Yeah.

1326
01:22:07,080 --> 01:22:11,720
Speaker 2: I could do that, but you know what, arrangers got

1327
01:22:11,760 --> 01:22:14,720
Speaker 2: to try different voicings. They try it, they check it out,

1328
01:22:14,800 --> 01:22:17,280
Speaker 2: they try a different voicing. Ooh, this is better. They

1329
01:22:17,960 --> 01:22:21,120
Speaker 2: got to work on things by themselves. I wanted to

1330
01:22:21,600 --> 01:22:26,679
Speaker 2: look at my synthesizers like that. Anyway, back to the story.

1331
01:22:26,920 --> 01:22:30,040
Speaker 2: On this eight track, I was going to experiment, and

1332
01:22:30,080 --> 01:22:31,960
Speaker 2: then once I knew what I was going to do,

1333
01:22:32,120 --> 01:22:34,520
Speaker 2: that's what I would do when I got time to overdub.

1334
01:22:34,880 --> 01:22:39,080
Speaker 2: But the reality was on this eight track, I was,

1335
01:22:39,320 --> 01:22:42,840
Speaker 2: you know, I was capturing magic. I was doing stuff

1336
01:22:42,840 --> 01:22:46,760
Speaker 2: with a modular synthesizer that I'd never be able to recreate,

1337
01:22:47,600 --> 01:22:53,080
Speaker 2: you know, and I was bouncing things down. I was. Anyway,

1338
01:22:53,240 --> 01:22:56,480
Speaker 2: I wound up when I got time to do the synthesizers.

1339
01:22:56,720 --> 01:23:00,040
Speaker 2: Nobody even heard that stuff, and it was so some

1340
01:23:00,120 --> 01:23:03,240
Speaker 2: of the best work I'd ever done, and no one

1341
01:23:03,360 --> 01:23:07,519
Speaker 2: to this day has even heard that stuff. I wound

1342
01:23:07,640 --> 01:23:10,760
Speaker 2: up just doing synth stuff very I was very frustrated,

1343
01:23:10,760 --> 01:23:13,439
Speaker 2: but just wound up doing what I always did in

1344
01:23:13,479 --> 01:23:17,040
Speaker 2: the studio with all the guys there with their arms

1345
01:23:17,040 --> 01:23:21,880
Speaker 2: folded behind me, going hurry up, and doing what I

1346
01:23:21,960 --> 01:23:24,960
Speaker 2: typically did on a Toto album. Now, the good part

1347
01:23:25,000 --> 01:23:29,519
Speaker 2: of the story is that for the next album, the

1348
01:23:29,560 --> 01:23:32,320
Speaker 2: guys told me they were gonna make me a tape.

1349
01:23:32,760 --> 01:23:35,120
Speaker 2: You know. The only reason that stuff, by the way,

1350
01:23:35,200 --> 01:23:37,479
Speaker 2: couldn't be used was because it was on eight track.

1351
01:23:38,240 --> 01:23:40,920
Speaker 2: It wasn't on the right format. By then, we had

1352
01:23:40,960 --> 01:23:44,280
Speaker 2: Sympty and you could sync up another piece of tape.

1353
01:23:44,439 --> 01:23:48,240
Speaker 2: You could add tracks, you know. But the only reason

1354
01:23:48,320 --> 01:23:50,840
Speaker 2: why that couldn't be used was because I'd recorded it

1355
01:23:50,880 --> 01:23:53,479
Speaker 2: myself and it was on this eight track. It was

1356
01:23:53,520 --> 01:23:56,679
Speaker 2: on this half inch tape. So for the next album,

1357
01:23:56,920 --> 01:24:02,760
Speaker 2: Total four, the guy said they would make me, I know,

1358
01:24:02,840 --> 01:24:06,680
Speaker 2: this is an acceptable language anymore, but they'd make me

1359
01:24:06,720 --> 01:24:08,519
Speaker 2: a slave tape. They'd make me a tape where I

1360
01:24:08,520 --> 01:24:11,880
Speaker 2: could work out my ideas. But they said, but we

1361
01:24:12,000 --> 01:24:15,360
Speaker 2: can't keep anything you do. You're not an engineer, you know.

1362
01:24:15,600 --> 01:24:19,599
Speaker 2: We always hired the best engineers, and engineers are definitely

1363
01:24:19,600 --> 01:24:23,559
Speaker 2: put on a pedestal with us. So the thing about

1364
01:24:23,640 --> 01:24:26,479
Speaker 2: Jeff Workman, the guy who I bumped heads with so

1365
01:24:26,600 --> 01:24:30,600
Speaker 2: much on that third album, he started hanging out. He

1366
01:24:30,680 --> 01:24:33,080
Speaker 2: started hanging out at David's house a lot. Him and

1367
01:24:33,160 --> 01:24:38,040
Speaker 2: David became close friends, and he lived very close by.

1368
01:24:38,880 --> 01:24:43,320
Speaker 2: And I started asking him all these real stupid questions.

1369
01:24:43,800 --> 01:24:48,679
Speaker 2: I said, Jeff, if I was to record myself, why

1370
01:24:48,720 --> 01:24:54,280
Speaker 2: couldn't they use what I recorded? And he went on

1371
01:24:54,840 --> 01:24:59,559
Speaker 2: to teach me all about gain structure. How do I

1372
01:24:59,640 --> 01:25:03,400
Speaker 2: know I'm getting the right level into a harmonizer? Where

1373
01:25:03,400 --> 01:25:05,160
Speaker 2: do I turn up? Do I turn it up there?

1374
01:25:05,280 --> 01:25:08,439
Speaker 2: When do I turn things up? He taught me all

1375
01:25:08,479 --> 01:25:14,439
Speaker 2: this basic gain structure, basic, all about zero vu. He

1376
01:25:14,680 --> 01:25:18,639
Speaker 2: was the most generous, sweetest guy all of a sudden,

1377
01:25:19,160 --> 01:25:24,000
Speaker 2: who taught me how to record, and they wound up

1378
01:25:24,080 --> 01:25:27,800
Speaker 2: using I did ninety five percent of the synthesizers on

1379
01:25:27,840 --> 01:25:31,920
Speaker 2: Total four I recorded, and they used every bit of it.

1380
01:25:33,000 --> 01:25:35,880
Speaker 2: You know, they used all of it because of what

1381
01:25:36,040 --> 01:25:37,120
Speaker 2: Jeff Workman taught me.

1382
01:25:38,200 --> 01:25:44,240
Speaker 3: Okay, just to be clear, from statistically and from the outside,

1383
01:25:44,880 --> 01:25:48,679
Speaker 3: the third album was going in the wrong direction. Did

1384
01:25:48,720 --> 01:25:51,839
Speaker 3: you feel that in the band? Did you feel pressure

1385
01:25:52,479 --> 01:25:53,120
Speaker 3: or did you not?

1386
01:25:55,080 --> 01:25:57,479
Speaker 2: We definitely felt pressure. We definitely felt pressure from the

1387
01:25:57,520 --> 01:26:02,959
Speaker 2: record company. They were not happy. There was no obvious singles.

1388
01:26:04,040 --> 01:26:06,160
Speaker 2: It was tougher, it had more of a rock and

1389
01:26:06,240 --> 01:26:11,240
Speaker 2: roll thing to it. I you know, there's personal I

1390
01:26:11,360 --> 01:26:18,320
Speaker 2: have some personal feelings about the way the priorities, the

1391
01:26:18,360 --> 01:26:22,040
Speaker 2: band's priorities, which were typical in those days where you know,

1392
01:26:22,080 --> 01:26:24,920
Speaker 2: where bands would spend three days on a bass drum sound,

1393
01:26:25,560 --> 01:26:28,240
Speaker 2: but then they'd have to mix it. They'd have to

1394
01:26:28,280 --> 01:26:31,920
Speaker 2: mix this song like you know what I mean, and

1395
01:26:32,000 --> 01:26:34,439
Speaker 2: in less than a day with a mixer that had

1396
01:26:34,439 --> 01:26:36,519
Speaker 2: been up for three days or something like that. Just

1397
01:26:37,840 --> 01:26:41,680
Speaker 2: the priorities always seemed off to me, But it was

1398
01:26:41,800 --> 01:26:45,479
Speaker 2: just the way it was. Bottom line is, if the

1399
01:26:45,560 --> 01:26:48,040
Speaker 2: songs were right, it wouldn't have mattered, right, you know

1400
01:26:48,120 --> 01:26:51,400
Speaker 2: what I mean, If the songs were where the shit,

1401
01:26:52,040 --> 01:26:53,559
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, it would have cut through

1402
01:26:53,600 --> 01:26:59,080
Speaker 2: all those details. Yeah, it just again you got to

1403
01:26:59,120 --> 01:27:02,080
Speaker 2: remember we're doing this. This is every year, We're going

1404
01:27:02,120 --> 01:27:05,479
Speaker 2: to Europe and Japan and the United States and trying

1405
01:27:05,479 --> 01:27:10,160
Speaker 2: to keep our home lives together, and and you know,

1406
01:27:10,200 --> 01:27:13,160
Speaker 2: having to do this being pointed at, going do it again,

1407
01:27:13,320 --> 01:27:14,920
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, get in there again. It

1408
01:27:15,439 --> 01:27:20,320
Speaker 2: was a hard life. You know, it's not easy where

1409
01:27:20,360 --> 01:27:22,120
Speaker 2: we weren't a band that was just kind of a

1410
01:27:22,200 --> 01:27:25,960
Speaker 2: roots thing where someone wrote a song and had their

1411
01:27:26,040 --> 01:27:29,280
Speaker 2: journal and had great lyrics and we would bang it

1412
01:27:29,320 --> 01:27:33,200
Speaker 2: out on our instruments, and you know, that was it

1413
01:27:33,320 --> 01:27:35,879
Speaker 2: we were. We loved we loved being in the studio.

1414
01:27:35,920 --> 01:27:40,840
Speaker 2: We loved production. I loved tweaking synthesizers and they're being

1415
01:27:40,960 --> 01:27:44,479
Speaker 2: arrangement and string arrangements and you know what I mean.

1416
01:27:44,640 --> 01:27:47,160
Speaker 2: We loved we loved that stuff. You know.

1417
01:27:48,280 --> 01:27:52,600
Speaker 3: Okay, so you're making the fourth record. To what degree

1418
01:27:53,360 --> 01:27:55,519
Speaker 3: do you feel you're on the right track when you're

1419
01:27:55,520 --> 01:27:56,200
Speaker 3: making it.

1420
01:27:56,640 --> 01:28:00,000
Speaker 2: Right out of the gate. We knew we were under pressure.

1421
01:27:59,840 --> 01:28:02,519
Speaker 2: We knew the record company was kind of going, come on, guys.

1422
01:28:02,760 --> 01:28:06,200
Speaker 2: You know, we were so good out of the gate,

1423
01:28:06,960 --> 01:28:09,240
Speaker 2: you know, and then the hydra comes and yeah, there's

1424
01:28:09,320 --> 01:28:12,840
Speaker 2: ninety nine, but it's now we're near the level that

1425
01:28:12,920 --> 01:28:15,320
Speaker 2: the first album is on. And then the third album

1426
01:28:15,439 --> 01:28:18,960
Speaker 2: is even worse, where all of a sudden feeling big

1427
01:28:19,000 --> 01:28:24,160
Speaker 2: pressure from the record company and David Page, god bless him,

1428
01:28:24,200 --> 01:28:27,040
Speaker 2: the first thing he writes for the new album is

1429
01:28:27,080 --> 01:28:32,880
Speaker 2: this song Rosanna. The first thing he writes is him

1430
01:28:33,320 --> 01:28:37,600
Speaker 2: trying his best to write the best possible song that

1431
01:28:37,760 --> 01:28:41,360
Speaker 2: exploits the talents of the band while still being commercial,

1432
01:28:41,880 --> 01:28:44,960
Speaker 2: while still being a hit record. And that's the first

1433
01:28:44,960 --> 01:28:49,200
Speaker 2: thing he writes. That's the first thing we record, you know,

1434
01:28:49,280 --> 01:28:51,840
Speaker 2: and we all believed in it and thought it was hip.

1435
01:28:52,400 --> 01:28:54,599
Speaker 2: And you know what I mean, there's this amazing drum

1436
01:28:54,640 --> 01:28:58,519
Speaker 2: beat that starts it off. It was totally Toto. The

1437
01:28:58,600 --> 01:29:04,400
Speaker 2: horn arrangement, two lead vocals, it changes keys, but yet

1438
01:29:04,400 --> 01:29:07,200
Speaker 2: it's got a payoff, It's got a really strong chorus.

1439
01:29:08,200 --> 01:29:10,439
Speaker 2: It was it was, you know what I mean. I

1440
01:29:10,600 --> 01:29:13,120
Speaker 2: got to spend you know what I mean, you would

1441
01:29:13,120 --> 01:29:15,000
Speaker 2: have You wouldn't believe how long I spent on that

1442
01:29:15,040 --> 01:29:19,719
Speaker 2: synthesizer solo on Rosanna, you know. So to me, that's

1443
01:29:19,720 --> 01:29:22,280
Speaker 2: something I'm so proud of because I got I was

1444
01:29:22,600 --> 01:29:25,960
Speaker 2: very indulgent. That was a perfect case of something I

1445
01:29:26,000 --> 01:29:28,840
Speaker 2: could have never done in the studio with the clock

1446
01:29:28,920 --> 01:29:33,599
Speaker 2: ticking and five producers waiting for me to blow a solo.

1447
01:29:34,040 --> 01:29:37,680
Speaker 2: I wasn't that guy. But I arranged this thing. I

1448
01:29:37,760 --> 01:29:41,599
Speaker 2: did these experiments, I did all kinds of stuff and

1449
01:29:41,680 --> 01:29:45,040
Speaker 2: delivered this solo on two tracks as all the mixer

1450
01:29:45,120 --> 01:29:48,600
Speaker 2: had since solo left and since solo right, you know.

1451
01:29:49,000 --> 01:29:52,160
Speaker 2: And he didn't ask who recorded it or how it

1452
01:29:52,280 --> 01:29:55,320
Speaker 2: was recorded. All z he knew was that he loved

1453
01:29:55,360 --> 01:29:59,120
Speaker 2: it and cranked it up, you know. And and it

1454
01:29:59,280 --> 01:30:03,679
Speaker 2: ends with paid doing this New Orleans third line stuff.

1455
01:30:03,720 --> 01:30:09,240
Speaker 2: It was very, very Toto and it was our first

1456
01:30:09,280 --> 01:30:11,760
Speaker 2: single and it did great right out of the gate.

1457
01:30:12,800 --> 01:30:16,080
Speaker 3: Okay, just to be clear, Rosanna was the first song written,

1458
01:30:16,720 --> 01:30:19,959
Speaker 3: first song recorded. But when you went in the studio,

1459
01:30:20,080 --> 01:30:22,400
Speaker 3: did you have all the songs.

1460
01:30:23,240 --> 01:30:25,639
Speaker 2: They were? You know, there was a batch, definitely. Page

1461
01:30:25,680 --> 01:30:30,400
Speaker 2: always had a batch of songs ready to go. You know,

1462
01:30:30,439 --> 01:30:32,680
Speaker 2: a lot of it came together. A lot of the

1463
01:30:32,720 --> 01:30:35,719
Speaker 2: writing would come together right there in the studio. David

1464
01:30:35,840 --> 01:30:39,040
Speaker 2: wasn't afraid to have a verse and a chorus and

1465
01:30:39,120 --> 01:30:41,080
Speaker 2: an idea for a bridge, and he would sit there

1466
01:30:41,080 --> 01:30:44,080
Speaker 2: with my brother Jeff. You know, he would sit there

1467
01:30:44,200 --> 01:30:47,640
Speaker 2: across from Jeff and they would kind of arrange it

1468
01:30:47,760 --> 01:30:50,160
Speaker 2: together what they were going to cut that day. And

1469
01:30:50,240 --> 01:30:52,640
Speaker 2: believe me, a lot of the finishing touches of the

1470
01:30:52,720 --> 01:30:56,840
Speaker 2: song would come together right then, of the track would

1471
01:30:56,880 --> 01:30:59,320
Speaker 2: come together right then, and then it'd be like, all right,

1472
01:30:59,400 --> 01:31:01,479
Speaker 2: are we ready, let's cut this, you.

1473
01:31:01,439 --> 01:31:08,040
Speaker 3: Know, Okay, revisiting an overhashed subject. How did you know Roseanne?

1474
01:31:08,080 --> 01:31:08,519
Speaker 3: Our kid?

1475
01:31:10,640 --> 01:31:13,479
Speaker 2: I knew Rosanna. I met her at you know, a

1476
01:31:13,600 --> 01:31:18,720
Speaker 2: very close friend of the band, James Newton Howard. It

1477
01:31:18,840 --> 01:31:23,200
Speaker 2: was at the reception to he had gotten married and

1478
01:31:23,240 --> 01:31:25,840
Speaker 2: we're at the reception that was at his house, and

1479
01:31:25,880 --> 01:31:28,880
Speaker 2: I met Rosanna that night. I met Rosanna at the

1480
01:31:28,920 --> 01:31:33,519
Speaker 2: reception and we had become an item. And she started

1481
01:31:33,560 --> 01:31:37,080
Speaker 2: coming to the studio and everybody was. You know, Rosanna

1482
01:31:37,120 --> 01:31:40,920
Speaker 2: has been amused for a lot of people. You know,

1483
01:31:41,520 --> 01:31:44,040
Speaker 2: she's always been a lover of music. She's always been

1484
01:31:44,080 --> 01:31:51,000
Speaker 2: incredibly supportive. And you know, David didn't have a title

1485
01:31:51,040 --> 01:31:53,920
Speaker 2: for a song yet, and I brought her over to

1486
01:31:54,360 --> 01:31:58,000
Speaker 2: David's house while he was working, while he was putting

1487
01:31:58,000 --> 01:32:01,160
Speaker 2: together Rosanna, and I think he and I think he

1488
01:32:01,240 --> 01:32:03,479
Speaker 2: might have been a little bit smitten with her himself,

1489
01:32:03,520 --> 01:32:07,640
Speaker 2: which I wouldn't blame him. She was, she was, she was,

1490
01:32:08,479 --> 01:32:16,360
Speaker 2: she wasn't is really something And you know, what can I.

1491
01:32:16,320 --> 01:32:19,679
Speaker 3: Say, Okay, when the record comes out, are you still

1492
01:32:19,680 --> 01:32:23,200
Speaker 3: an item? Whether you are or not, how does it

1493
01:32:23,240 --> 01:32:26,080
Speaker 3: affect your relationship with her? And how does she handle it?

1494
01:32:26,400 --> 01:32:28,960
Speaker 3: Because the news right away. Whatever, the real story is

1495
01:32:29,200 --> 01:32:32,080
Speaker 3: news right away, and all the media is that it's

1496
01:32:32,120 --> 01:32:33,720
Speaker 3: based on Roseanna Arcat.

1497
01:32:35,000 --> 01:32:37,000
Speaker 2: Sure. No. And she was on the road. She went

1498
01:32:37,000 --> 01:32:39,400
Speaker 2: on the road with us. She did a world tour

1499
01:32:39,439 --> 01:32:43,200
Speaker 2: with us. And this is when her career was you know,

1500
01:32:43,240 --> 01:32:45,360
Speaker 2: she was getting we lived together at this point, and

1501
01:32:45,400 --> 01:32:50,720
Speaker 2: she was getting scripts from huge movies every day. I

1502
01:32:51,160 --> 01:32:56,200
Speaker 2: can't believe. And I'm not the only one she did

1503
01:32:56,240 --> 01:32:58,320
Speaker 2: this with. And she just she wanted to come on

1504
01:32:58,360 --> 01:33:01,080
Speaker 2: the road with us. She loved music. She did a

1505
01:33:01,120 --> 01:33:05,559
Speaker 2: whole world tour with us. You know, we were still

1506
01:33:05,680 --> 01:33:10,960
Speaker 2: very much an item. Yeah, it was, and people were

1507
01:33:11,000 --> 01:33:14,000
Speaker 2: assuming that it was written by me. It was not.

1508
01:33:14,320 --> 01:33:17,720
Speaker 2: It was all that was all David Page. I believe me.

1509
01:33:17,800 --> 01:33:20,600
Speaker 2: I worked my ass off on that song, you know,

1510
01:33:20,640 --> 01:33:23,320
Speaker 2: on that SyncE solo and all those keyboard parts and

1511
01:33:23,360 --> 01:33:26,559
Speaker 2: stuff like that. We were all very proud of that

1512
01:33:26,680 --> 01:33:30,559
Speaker 2: song and thought it was a great representation of who

1513
01:33:30,560 --> 01:33:33,640
Speaker 2: we were as a band and what we were about.

1514
01:33:33,720 --> 01:33:36,479
Speaker 2: And and I think she loved it for she even

1515
01:33:36,880 --> 01:33:40,400
Speaker 2: she even they did some some of the promotion for

1516
01:33:40,479 --> 01:33:45,280
Speaker 2: the single she was involved with. Now after that, you know,

1517
01:33:45,479 --> 01:33:48,400
Speaker 2: years after that, right, it becomes this thing where like

1518
01:33:48,560 --> 01:33:54,639
Speaker 2: every talk show she does, right, you know, with the

1519
01:33:54,640 --> 01:33:58,160
Speaker 2: the questions they ask, right, of course, they bring that up.

1520
01:33:58,320 --> 01:34:01,479
Speaker 2: And I think she I wouldn't blame and I didn't

1521
01:34:01,479 --> 01:34:04,280
Speaker 2: blame her a bit for getting very very tired of

1522
01:34:04,320 --> 01:34:07,200
Speaker 2: getting that question, you know what I mean. I mean,

1523
01:34:07,240 --> 01:34:09,920
Speaker 2: from Letterman, from you know, you name it. They would

1524
01:34:09,920 --> 01:34:13,479
Speaker 2: bring that up while she was out promoting a movie

1525
01:34:13,560 --> 01:34:17,800
Speaker 2: or promoting this or that. Right, these these people, you know,

1526
01:34:18,120 --> 01:34:21,400
Speaker 2: would would I think it was kind of lazy on

1527
01:34:21,479 --> 01:34:23,960
Speaker 2: a lot of their parts. You know, I understand some

1528
01:34:24,080 --> 01:34:25,800
Speaker 2: of it, right, they want to have something else to

1529
01:34:25,840 --> 01:34:28,320
Speaker 2: talk about, but they would bring that up for like

1530
01:34:28,360 --> 01:34:31,600
Speaker 2: the next ten years, this poor girl. Every time she

1531
01:34:31,720 --> 01:34:34,640
Speaker 2: did a talk show, they'd bring up Rosanna, you know

1532
01:34:34,640 --> 01:34:39,200
Speaker 2: what I mean. And at some point, you know, Rosanna

1533
01:34:39,320 --> 01:34:41,920
Speaker 2: was always into Prague stuff, and she wound up being

1534
01:34:41,920 --> 01:34:48,360
Speaker 2: with Peter Gabriel, and you know, she started disparaging the song.

1535
01:34:49,240 --> 01:34:53,680
Speaker 2: You know, even I think just to I thought it

1536
01:34:53,720 --> 01:34:57,120
Speaker 2: was to discourage people from bringing it up. You know,

1537
01:34:57,160 --> 01:34:59,960
Speaker 2: I didn't take it as I didn't take it very personal.

1538
01:35:00,400 --> 01:35:02,479
Speaker 2: You know, I kind of understood she just got kind

1539
01:35:02,479 --> 01:35:05,719
Speaker 2: of tired of being asked that that lame question.

1540
01:35:06,080 --> 01:35:20,439
Speaker 3: You know, Okay, Total four is a monster with varying

1541
01:35:20,600 --> 01:35:27,120
Speaker 3: hit tracks. What's the experience on the inside it.

1542
01:35:29,720 --> 01:35:34,519
Speaker 2: We were feeling very good. We delivered. We delivered. You know,

1543
01:35:34,920 --> 01:35:39,040
Speaker 2: we were under pressure. We were under pressure, and we delivered.

1544
01:35:39,640 --> 01:35:44,200
Speaker 2: We went to some known things. Al Schmidt, a guy

1545
01:35:44,240 --> 01:35:49,160
Speaker 2: who worked with our fathers, you know, a great engineer,

1546
01:35:49,240 --> 01:35:53,800
Speaker 2: cut the basic tracks. There was nothing fancy. We weren't

1547
01:35:53,880 --> 01:35:57,240
Speaker 2: using the flavor of the month in any way. Even

1548
01:35:57,280 --> 01:36:01,000
Speaker 2: though Greg Ladani was this hot young man mixer, his

1549
01:36:01,120 --> 01:36:05,120
Speaker 2: career was really on the uprise. And and Greg mixed

1550
01:36:05,160 --> 01:36:08,880
Speaker 2: the whole album, and like I said, I loved it

1551
01:36:08,960 --> 01:36:13,080
Speaker 2: because before the mixer, whoever recorded our album would be

1552
01:36:13,240 --> 01:36:17,200
Speaker 2: there the whole time. And of course there's there's pecking

1553
01:36:17,320 --> 01:36:21,679
Speaker 2: orders in bands, understandably, you know, David Page and Jeff,

1554
01:36:21,760 --> 01:36:24,720
Speaker 2: my brother Jeff, had a lot more clout than I

1555
01:36:24,800 --> 01:36:28,880
Speaker 2: did as far as you know what I mean, band's

1556
01:36:28,920 --> 01:36:32,680
Speaker 2: pecking orders. I'm sure John Lennon and Paul McCartney had

1557
01:36:32,680 --> 01:36:37,120
Speaker 2: a more clout than what Ringo's opinion was in certain

1558
01:36:37,200 --> 01:36:40,960
Speaker 2: situations as far as the producers and engineers went that

1559
01:36:41,080 --> 01:36:47,320
Speaker 2: were around him. It's understandable, but and so certain band.

1560
01:36:49,240 --> 01:36:55,439
Speaker 2: You know, prejudices and habits and people's opinions get in

1561
01:36:56,200 --> 01:36:58,439
Speaker 2: these guys' heads. And what I loved was, like I

1562
01:36:58,479 --> 01:37:01,960
Speaker 2: said before, Greg Ladani was just this fresh, you know,

1563
01:37:02,000 --> 01:37:05,519
Speaker 2: he had fresh ears. He didn't he didn't know any

1564
01:37:05,520 --> 01:37:10,120
Speaker 2: of the banded politics. You know. I actually remember David

1565
01:37:10,160 --> 01:37:12,280
Speaker 2: after we heard we heard a mix of Rosanna, and

1566
01:37:12,320 --> 01:37:15,000
Speaker 2: we're all we were all kind of blown away with

1567
01:37:15,080 --> 01:37:17,240
Speaker 2: how it had come out. You know, no one had

1568
01:37:17,280 --> 01:37:20,840
Speaker 2: heard the whole since solo put together in the song

1569
01:37:20,960 --> 01:37:24,639
Speaker 2: itself next to Luke's guitar solo, and it all came

1570
01:37:24,680 --> 01:37:28,240
Speaker 2: together and I'll never forget. After we heard it mixed,

1571
01:37:30,040 --> 01:37:32,920
Speaker 2: we walked out of the room and David Pate said

1572
01:37:32,960 --> 01:37:35,439
Speaker 2: to me, He goes, I'll never forget this. He says,

1573
01:37:35,479 --> 01:37:37,600
Speaker 2: you know, Ladanie didn't know that you're not supposed to

1574
01:37:37,640 --> 01:37:43,559
Speaker 2: turn up the sense that loud was. This was the

1575
01:37:43,600 --> 01:37:45,160
Speaker 2: first thing he said to me, and we were just

1576
01:37:45,200 --> 01:37:48,960
Speaker 2: where we were cracking up. You know, Like I said,

1577
01:37:49,040 --> 01:37:51,640
Speaker 2: he didn't have those banded politics in his ears. He

1578
01:37:51,880 --> 01:37:55,120
Speaker 2: just did it the way he heard it, mixed it

1579
01:37:55,200 --> 01:37:57,000
Speaker 2: the way he heard it. That's the way he did

1580
01:37:57,000 --> 01:38:01,360
Speaker 2: the whole album and it was very successful. So you asked,

1581
01:38:01,360 --> 01:38:03,200
Speaker 2: what was it like in the band. We were feeling

1582
01:38:03,240 --> 01:38:06,640
Speaker 2: pretty good about ourselves. We delivered. We delivered in a

1583
01:38:06,640 --> 01:38:08,760
Speaker 2: big way. We were up against the wall, and you

1584
01:38:08,840 --> 01:38:11,280
Speaker 2: know what, we rose to the occasion.

1585
01:38:12,400 --> 01:38:16,360
Speaker 3: Okay, Toto is a band that has gotten a lot

1586
01:38:16,400 --> 01:38:19,200
Speaker 3: of shit, a lot of backlash from day one, day

1587
01:38:19,200 --> 01:38:24,680
Speaker 3: one at studio musicians, I certainly know Lukethur has a

1588
01:38:24,720 --> 01:38:28,240
Speaker 3: thin skin on this topic. Or whoever, everybody's got a

1589
01:38:28,240 --> 01:38:32,840
Speaker 3: different identity. To what degree were you bothered or bothered

1590
01:38:32,920 --> 01:38:33,360
Speaker 3: by that?

1591
01:38:34,640 --> 01:38:38,120
Speaker 2: I understood it from day one, and I never could

1592
01:38:38,280 --> 01:38:41,680
Speaker 2: understand why the other guys couldn't understand it. Okay, the

1593
01:38:41,840 --> 01:38:47,920
Speaker 2: people that are writing about us are journalists, which means

1594
01:38:47,920 --> 01:38:53,040
Speaker 2: they're probably they were English majors in school. Okay, words

1595
01:38:53,800 --> 01:39:00,320
Speaker 2: are very very important to them. Okay, all right, they

1596
01:39:00,400 --> 01:39:05,200
Speaker 2: care about words. We were all musos. Okay. We were

1597
01:39:05,280 --> 01:39:08,599
Speaker 2: all about the pocket and the drum and the feel

1598
01:39:08,760 --> 01:39:12,080
Speaker 2: and this and look at that, those great chord changes

1599
01:39:12,280 --> 01:39:17,000
Speaker 2: and that melody, What a great melody, and all these

1600
01:39:17,120 --> 01:39:21,439
Speaker 2: things that these writers that's way down on the list.

1601
01:39:21,960 --> 01:39:27,760
Speaker 2: What's the first thing they're looking at? The words? It's

1602
01:39:27,920 --> 01:39:34,360
Speaker 2: rolling stone magazine. Bob Dylan is at the peak. He's

1603
01:39:34,439 --> 01:39:39,559
Speaker 2: the best. Okay, listen to his words. He's the poet

1604
01:39:39,600 --> 01:39:44,760
Speaker 2: of the generation. All right, words are all important. And

1605
01:39:44,800 --> 01:39:48,519
Speaker 2: you know what, where Toto, I can't completely throw us

1606
01:39:48,600 --> 01:39:51,240
Speaker 2: under the bus. There were times where guys would make

1607
01:39:51,240 --> 01:39:54,600
Speaker 2: an effort. There was no one in the band. We

1608
01:39:54,640 --> 01:39:57,479
Speaker 2: didn't grow up with that guy who was the lead singer,

1609
01:39:57,680 --> 01:40:01,559
Speaker 2: who kept a journal, who kept who was the poet

1610
01:40:01,600 --> 01:40:05,240
Speaker 2: of the band. That wasn't part of the equation with Toto.

1611
01:40:05,840 --> 01:40:09,200
Speaker 2: We were all musicians. It was all about the playing

1612
01:40:09,920 --> 01:40:15,600
Speaker 2: all those things I told you, and quite frankly, often lyrics,

1613
01:40:15,640 --> 01:40:19,559
Speaker 2: not on every song, but a lot of times. Yeah,

1614
01:40:19,600 --> 01:40:22,559
Speaker 2: we'd spend three days on the drum sound, but you

1615
01:40:22,640 --> 01:40:26,240
Speaker 2: know what, the lyrics would get written the night before

1616
01:40:26,920 --> 01:40:30,559
Speaker 2: the vocal. The lead vocal had to get done. Okay.

1617
01:40:31,479 --> 01:40:33,200
Speaker 2: I wish I could tell you, you know, we spent

1618
01:40:33,400 --> 01:40:38,519
Speaker 2: two weeks on those lyrics. Hell no, okay. And when

1619
01:40:38,520 --> 01:40:42,440
Speaker 2: you're talking about this is when that distinction between records

1620
01:40:42,680 --> 01:40:47,920
Speaker 2: and songs comes in. Okay, Because on records, which is

1621
01:40:48,000 --> 01:40:51,040
Speaker 2: kind of more what we were about. I think if

1622
01:40:51,040 --> 01:40:53,679
Speaker 2: you had to make that distinction, we were guys who

1623
01:40:53,720 --> 01:41:00,559
Speaker 2: made records. Okay, lyrics sometimes, okay, Louie Louis whatever. There's

1624
01:41:00,600 --> 01:41:02,800
Speaker 2: all these records you can name that. You know what.

1625
01:41:04,080 --> 01:41:06,519
Speaker 2: The words weren't that important. It was about the production,

1626
01:41:06,680 --> 01:41:09,360
Speaker 2: It was about the feeling, it was about the dance ability,

1627
01:41:09,800 --> 01:41:12,280
Speaker 2: it was about this cool sound, it was about the

1628
01:41:13,120 --> 01:41:17,280
Speaker 2: horn arrangement. Words weren't number one, you know, the way

1629
01:41:17,320 --> 01:41:20,880
Speaker 2: they were when you're talking about Bob Dylan, you know

1630
01:41:21,080 --> 01:41:24,599
Speaker 2: when you're talking about Van Morrison. You know, now, we

1631
01:41:24,720 --> 01:41:28,000
Speaker 2: loved great lyrics. We loved Joni Mitchell, we loved Steely

1632
01:41:28,160 --> 01:41:31,839
Speaker 2: Dan or the Eagles. We loved great lyrics.

1633
01:41:32,040 --> 01:41:32,479
Speaker 3: It just.

1634
01:41:33,960 --> 01:41:39,760
Speaker 2: It wasn't our priority, quite frankly. And how can you

1635
01:41:39,800 --> 01:41:44,639
Speaker 2: be surprised when these writers, these English majors, they would

1636
01:41:44,800 --> 01:41:46,439
Speaker 2: know a deep pocket if it hit him in the

1637
01:41:46,479 --> 01:41:49,679
Speaker 2: back of the head. Maybe, but you know what, they're

1638
01:41:49,680 --> 01:41:51,920
Speaker 2: going to read your lyrics and if you're rhyming Moon

1639
01:41:52,000 --> 01:41:55,040
Speaker 2: with June, they're going to say this sucks. This is

1640
01:41:55,080 --> 01:41:56,960
Speaker 2: I would get a D on this if I handed

1641
01:41:57,000 --> 01:42:01,280
Speaker 2: this poem in in English class at my college. You know,

1642
01:42:02,320 --> 01:42:05,760
Speaker 2: it was bad poetry to them, and the guys would

1643
01:42:05,800 --> 01:42:08,479
Speaker 2: be It would be funny because I would see they'd

1644
01:42:08,520 --> 01:42:13,160
Speaker 2: be so shocked and hurt, and believe me bad when

1645
01:42:13,160 --> 01:42:15,519
Speaker 2: you work so hard on something and you spend all

1646
01:42:15,520 --> 01:42:17,960
Speaker 2: this time away from your family and you put your

1647
01:42:18,000 --> 01:42:21,640
Speaker 2: heart and soul in something, to hear somebody just completely

1648
01:42:21,640 --> 01:42:29,400
Speaker 2: say it's shit. It hurts, absolutely, absolutely it hurts. But

1649
01:42:31,360 --> 01:42:33,800
Speaker 2: you know Elton John got to start off with those

1650
01:42:33,840 --> 01:42:37,400
Speaker 2: incredible Bernie top and lyrics. He'd start off with that.

1651
01:42:38,520 --> 01:42:41,720
Speaker 2: The song wouldn't even start being written without those that

1652
01:42:41,880 --> 01:42:47,519
Speaker 2: amazing poetry in front of them. You know, leave on,

1653
01:42:48,240 --> 01:42:52,880
Speaker 2: burn down the mission name any Elton tune and the

1654
01:42:53,000 --> 01:42:56,880
Speaker 2: lyrics are amazing, you know what I mean? You know

1655
01:42:57,080 --> 01:42:59,320
Speaker 2: the Eagles, it would be maybe be after the fact,

1656
01:42:59,400 --> 01:43:03,160
Speaker 2: but believe me, they held such high importance, more so

1657
01:43:03,520 --> 01:43:08,240
Speaker 2: than than their priorities were very different than a band Toto.

1658
01:43:08,400 --> 01:43:12,240
Speaker 2: You know, they would never let moon in June or

1659
01:43:12,280 --> 01:43:14,960
Speaker 2: saying uh right there from the start, you know, rhyme

1660
01:43:15,040 --> 01:43:17,200
Speaker 2: it with the word heart like we did I think

1661
01:43:17,280 --> 01:43:20,439
Speaker 2: three times in our lyrics or something. They would there'd

1662
01:43:20,439 --> 01:43:24,200
Speaker 2: be someone in that band going no way. They would

1663
01:43:24,200 --> 01:43:26,640
Speaker 2: work harder. They'd bring in a J. D. Souther to

1664
01:43:26,680 --> 01:43:31,439
Speaker 2: help them elevate the lyrics. You know, we were being

1665
01:43:31,479 --> 01:43:34,519
Speaker 2: the best version of ourselves that we could be. And

1666
01:43:36,960 --> 01:43:39,559
Speaker 2: I think all of us wish the lyrics were better sometimes.

1667
01:43:39,560 --> 01:43:42,679
Speaker 2: And I know, guys, you know, Lucather brought in Randy

1668
01:43:42,720 --> 01:43:49,720
Speaker 2: Goodrum to do one of his second big ballad on

1669
01:43:49,760 --> 01:43:52,320
Speaker 2: the first album. Luke wrote the lyrics himself to his

1670
01:43:52,360 --> 01:43:54,920
Speaker 2: big ballad that you know, but on the on uh

1671
01:43:55,080 --> 01:43:58,280
Speaker 2: or I mean on the fourth album. But then later

1672
01:43:58,320 --> 01:44:01,120
Speaker 2: on Luke had another big song and brought in Randy Goodrum,

1673
01:44:01,160 --> 01:44:04,639
Speaker 2: who wrote incredible lyrics. We would you know, we we

1674
01:44:04,760 --> 01:44:08,519
Speaker 2: cared David on the song Africa. That was David really

1675
01:44:08,640 --> 01:44:13,719
Speaker 2: trying to really put some effort into his lyric writing.

1676
01:44:14,040 --> 01:44:18,320
Speaker 2: You know, we gave him a rational shit at the time.

1677
01:44:18,360 --> 01:44:21,040
Speaker 2: We were like, what is this about the Serengetti the

1678
01:44:21,200 --> 01:44:24,840
Speaker 2: but what are you writing about? You know, we gave

1679
01:44:24,880 --> 01:44:27,120
Speaker 2: him tons of crap about it, you know, while we

1680
01:44:27,120 --> 01:44:30,479
Speaker 2: were working on the tape loops and this and you know,

1681
01:44:30,560 --> 01:44:34,400
Speaker 2: all this me tweaking the Columbus sounds. You know, that's

1682
01:44:34,479 --> 01:44:36,720
Speaker 2: what we spent time doing, you know what I mean.

1683
01:44:36,840 --> 01:44:40,800
Speaker 2: But to me, it was obvious why the critics didn't

1684
01:44:40,880 --> 01:44:44,439
Speaker 2: like us, and I could never understand why why Luke

1685
01:44:44,479 --> 01:44:48,040
Speaker 2: in particular, would get so upset. You know, yeah, it hurts,

1686
01:44:48,080 --> 01:44:52,519
Speaker 2: But he's an English major. His priorities are very different.

1687
01:44:52,640 --> 01:44:55,240
Speaker 2: They don't care about the tone on your guitar that

1688
01:44:55,320 --> 01:44:58,679
Speaker 2: you spent hours and hours on, you know what I mean,

1689
01:44:58,840 --> 01:45:01,360
Speaker 2: that you spent all this time. They don't care about that.

1690
01:45:01,840 --> 01:45:04,200
Speaker 2: They would have rather you spent a few more hours

1691
01:45:04,200 --> 01:45:07,559
Speaker 2: on the lyrics and making better you know what I mean.

1692
01:45:08,840 --> 01:45:13,400
Speaker 3: Okay, So the band has this incredible success both on

1693
01:45:13,640 --> 01:45:18,519
Speaker 3: records and live. Certainly at this late date people know

1694
01:45:18,600 --> 01:45:21,280
Speaker 3: the money is mostly in publishing and at least long

1695
01:45:21,360 --> 01:45:25,439
Speaker 3: term money. You had some songs on some records. First

1696
01:45:25,520 --> 01:45:30,000
Speaker 3: question is, ay, were you ripped off? Sometimes the band

1697
01:45:30,040 --> 01:45:32,880
Speaker 3: is so busy working they have no idea where the

1698
01:45:32,960 --> 01:45:36,880
Speaker 3: money is going. Second, did you get the money and

1699
01:45:37,000 --> 01:45:39,719
Speaker 3: how did you use it? In third, are you still

1700
01:45:39,760 --> 01:45:40,920
Speaker 3: getting money from Toto?

1701
01:45:44,160 --> 01:45:49,120
Speaker 2: Yes? Look at that's what happens with a lot of bands.

1702
01:45:49,240 --> 01:45:53,720
Speaker 2: With every band, guys aren't thinking about that at the time, right,

1703
01:45:53,760 --> 01:45:55,880
Speaker 2: They're just going in. They're in a band. They're thrilled

1704
01:45:55,880 --> 01:46:00,719
Speaker 2: to be in a band. But the human nature aspect

1705
01:46:00,760 --> 01:46:03,280
Speaker 2: kicks in when all of a sudden it hits you

1706
01:46:03,320 --> 01:46:05,519
Speaker 2: that the guy who's written all the songs. He's shown

1707
01:46:05,600 --> 01:46:09,080
Speaker 2: up in a rolls Royce and he's three hours late

1708
01:46:09,120 --> 01:46:13,120
Speaker 2: to the session that you're all paying for. And you know,

1709
01:46:14,280 --> 01:46:17,799
Speaker 2: has this happened with every band? Sure? I've seen bands

1710
01:46:17,800 --> 01:46:21,120
Speaker 2: that you know what, to fight that the guys who

1711
01:46:21,200 --> 01:46:23,280
Speaker 2: write all the songs. They'll say, you know what, let's

1712
01:46:23,280 --> 01:46:26,280
Speaker 2: make them all band written songs. This band is so

1713
01:46:26,400 --> 01:46:29,919
Speaker 2: important to us, and the chemistry we have is so special,

1714
01:46:31,200 --> 01:46:34,080
Speaker 2: Let's make them all band written songs. I've seen guys

1715
01:46:34,120 --> 01:46:37,559
Speaker 2: do that, and then later on resenting it kicks in

1716
01:46:39,280 --> 01:46:42,080
Speaker 2: and it comes out in some weird, ugly way. You know.

1717
01:46:42,439 --> 01:46:47,720
Speaker 2: I won't mention any names, but it's did we get

1718
01:46:47,760 --> 01:46:51,720
Speaker 2: ripped off? Absolutely? Walter Yetnikoff, the guy who was the

1719
01:46:51,760 --> 01:46:54,479
Speaker 2: record company president at the time. He says in his

1720
01:46:54,479 --> 01:46:57,240
Speaker 2: book Howling at the Moon. He says, at the end

1721
01:46:57,720 --> 01:47:01,960
Speaker 2: he was a record company president that Bruce Springsteen would

1722
01:47:02,000 --> 01:47:03,880
Speaker 2: fly in to play him his new single, and he

1723
01:47:03,920 --> 01:47:06,599
Speaker 2: couldn't tell you one Bruce Springsteen song from the other.

1724
01:47:07,040 --> 01:47:10,040
Speaker 2: He came up through the lawyer ranks, and all he

1725
01:47:10,320 --> 01:47:14,040
Speaker 2: knows is that he screwed every band he signed. He

1726
01:47:14,120 --> 01:47:17,519
Speaker 2: got the better. He outlawyered every band that he signed

1727
01:47:17,880 --> 01:47:23,080
Speaker 2: of which we were one of. So did we get screwed? Absolutely?

1728
01:47:23,520 --> 01:47:26,280
Speaker 2: And then when you try to just look at the

1729
01:47:26,720 --> 01:47:29,880
Speaker 2: record business, the whole history of the record business is

1730
01:47:29,920 --> 01:47:33,600
Speaker 2: so is so ugly. And then you you try to

1731
01:47:33,640 --> 01:47:36,879
Speaker 2: audit these companies, you know they'll have your money sitting

1732
01:47:36,920 --> 01:47:40,840
Speaker 2: in some especially in foreign territories. You know you've made

1733
01:47:40,840 --> 01:47:44,200
Speaker 2: all this money, it's sitting in some bank accounts somewhere.

1734
01:47:44,320 --> 01:47:47,800
Speaker 2: And then you have to audit your record company, and

1735
01:47:47,840 --> 01:47:51,200
Speaker 2: then another lawyer gets a third of what you get

1736
01:47:51,200 --> 01:47:56,439
Speaker 2: from the audit. It's it's it's horrible, but but you

1737
01:47:56,520 --> 01:48:01,000
Speaker 2: know what, we made a living. We made a good living.

1738
01:48:03,040 --> 01:48:07,640
Speaker 2: Do I still get money? Yes? Yes. Just being a

1739
01:48:07,680 --> 01:48:10,640
Speaker 2: member of Toto has been very very good to me

1740
01:48:11,439 --> 01:48:12,680
Speaker 2: has been very very good to me.

1741
01:48:12,880 --> 01:48:16,080
Speaker 3: Assuming you didn't have any savings, Could you live off

1742
01:48:16,120 --> 01:48:17,320
Speaker 3: the income from Toto?

1743
01:48:18,200 --> 01:48:21,639
Speaker 2: Not that alone? Now it depends when you say live.

1744
01:48:21,800 --> 01:48:26,560
Speaker 2: I'm used to I'm used to living here in California,

1745
01:48:27,840 --> 01:48:29,599
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. I'm used to going out

1746
01:48:29,640 --> 01:48:32,479
Speaker 2: to dinner, to nice restaurants. I'm not a car guy,

1747
01:48:32,560 --> 01:48:37,360
Speaker 2: but some people are. I don't know. Some people have

1748
01:48:37,520 --> 01:48:40,080
Speaker 2: lived on a lot less. I'll tell you that you

1749
01:48:40,120 --> 01:48:42,840
Speaker 2: know what I mean, They sure wouldn't live here, they

1750
01:48:42,880 --> 01:48:46,800
Speaker 2: wouldn't have these gas prices. They'd go somewhere else where

1751
01:48:46,840 --> 01:48:49,120
Speaker 2: they could, you know what I mean, where they could

1752
01:48:49,160 --> 01:48:53,080
Speaker 2: get better bang for their buck than southern California. Certainly,

1753
01:48:53,680 --> 01:48:54,080
Speaker 2: how do you.

1754
01:48:54,080 --> 01:48:55,280
Speaker 3: End up leaving Toto?

1755
01:48:56,439 --> 01:48:58,479
Speaker 2: How did I end up? You know? It was after

1756
01:48:59,600 --> 01:49:03,599
Speaker 2: you know, I love this question because even though, especially

1757
01:49:03,640 --> 01:49:07,120
Speaker 2: with my brother Jeff and the band, you know, totod

1758
01:49:07,120 --> 01:49:10,760
Speaker 2: believe me, there was some headbutting. You know, for the

1759
01:49:10,760 --> 01:49:13,000
Speaker 2: most part, we all got along great, you know what

1760
01:49:13,000 --> 01:49:16,040
Speaker 2: I mean, We really for the most part, it was

1761
01:49:16,080 --> 01:49:18,120
Speaker 2: like a hell of a lot better than a lot

1762
01:49:18,160 --> 01:49:20,240
Speaker 2: of stuff you hear about. You know, we really got

1763
01:49:20,280 --> 01:49:23,280
Speaker 2: along great. For the most part. We were mostly always

1764
01:49:23,320 --> 01:49:30,360
Speaker 2: on the same page. I I after the sixth album again,

1765
01:49:31,280 --> 01:49:33,880
Speaker 2: ever since Total four, like I told you, the whole

1766
01:49:33,920 --> 01:49:37,839
Speaker 2: thing of music had been changing, you know, this corporate

1767
01:49:38,000 --> 01:49:44,599
Speaker 2: rock things, these very heavily overarranged pop things with the

1768
01:49:44,640 --> 01:49:48,160
Speaker 2: band and synthesizers were becoming less and less popular and

1769
01:49:48,240 --> 01:49:51,599
Speaker 2: less and less common. The whole consensus with people were

1770
01:49:51,600 --> 01:49:54,760
Speaker 2: getting a lot more stripped down. It became a lot

1771
01:49:54,800 --> 01:50:00,240
Speaker 2: more about the lyrics and about rock and roll. I

1772
01:50:00,240 --> 01:50:02,800
Speaker 2: saw that in England. I loved bands like Yes and

1773
01:50:02,880 --> 01:50:06,559
Speaker 2: Emersonich and Palmer. But I totally got it in seventy

1774
01:50:06,600 --> 01:50:09,160
Speaker 2: five seventy six, where the you know, people were going

1775
01:50:09,200 --> 01:50:11,479
Speaker 2: to a rock concert and all of a sudden you're

1776
01:50:11,479 --> 01:50:12,680
Speaker 2: made to feel like you had to go to a

1777
01:50:12,800 --> 01:50:16,559
Speaker 2: music conservatory to play rock and roll, and how they said,

1778
01:50:16,600 --> 01:50:20,760
Speaker 2: fuck that, pick up a guitar, learn three records and

1779
01:50:20,800 --> 01:50:23,000
Speaker 2: if you have something to say, you know what I mean,

1780
01:50:24,040 --> 01:50:27,479
Speaker 2: screw that. You know, the whole backlash to all of that.

1781
01:50:29,520 --> 01:50:32,920
Speaker 2: After we did our sixth album, we toured I remember

1782
01:50:32,920 --> 01:50:36,720
Speaker 2: this very well, and the guys were talking about our

1783
01:50:36,800 --> 01:50:40,640
Speaker 2: next album. Joseph Williams was the lead singer in the

1784
01:50:40,680 --> 01:50:44,599
Speaker 2: band now and they were just talking about how we

1785
01:50:44,720 --> 01:50:47,599
Speaker 2: needed to do even less. We needed to really thin

1786
01:50:47,680 --> 01:50:50,960
Speaker 2: out the arrangements. We really needed to do less as

1787
01:50:51,000 --> 01:50:54,160
Speaker 2: far as arrangement went, as far as since went. They

1788
01:50:54,160 --> 01:50:57,280
Speaker 2: were kind of describing what it was I did in

1789
01:50:57,320 --> 01:51:02,800
Speaker 2: the band, you know, for me, what my purpose in

1790
01:51:02,880 --> 01:51:06,200
Speaker 2: the band was, you know, I mean, they'd always love

1791
01:51:06,280 --> 01:51:09,760
Speaker 2: having me around to recreate the songs live, to do

1792
01:51:09,840 --> 01:51:12,559
Speaker 2: the Rosanna solo, and to do Africa, and to do

1793
01:51:12,720 --> 01:51:16,439
Speaker 2: you know whatever else, but you know, I was just

1794
01:51:16,560 --> 01:51:19,600
Speaker 2: kind of feeling you know what, And so I on

1795
01:51:19,640 --> 01:51:23,000
Speaker 2: the way home were we had finished our last gig

1796
01:51:23,320 --> 01:51:27,000
Speaker 2: of the last tour in Japan, and we were on

1797
01:51:27,040 --> 01:51:29,800
Speaker 2: the way home, and I told the guys there was

1798
01:51:29,880 --> 01:51:33,320
Speaker 2: no big, ugly fight. I'm so happy to say this.

1799
01:51:33,479 --> 01:51:38,400
Speaker 2: There was no ugly scene and fuck you fest or

1800
01:51:38,400 --> 01:51:40,360
Speaker 2: something like that. I you know what I mean. I

1801
01:51:40,560 --> 01:51:43,439
Speaker 2: just we'd been talking about the next album that we

1802
01:51:43,439 --> 01:51:46,040
Speaker 2: were going to go into the studio soon, and they

1803
01:51:46,040 --> 01:51:49,439
Speaker 2: were talking about conceptually how they wanted to simplify and

1804
01:51:49,520 --> 01:51:53,519
Speaker 2: get much more basic. And I told the guys, I said,

1805
01:51:53,520 --> 01:51:56,280
Speaker 2: you know what, I'm not gonna I think I'm going

1806
01:51:56,360 --> 01:51:58,439
Speaker 2: to back out of the band at this point. I'm

1807
01:51:58,439 --> 01:52:00,679
Speaker 2: not going to bail on you guys. I will still

1808
01:52:01,360 --> 01:52:04,000
Speaker 2: because David was When I said that, David Page was like,

1809
01:52:04,200 --> 01:52:07,160
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, he was so used to

1810
01:52:07,200 --> 01:52:10,880
Speaker 2: me being around and assisting him in the studio and

1811
01:52:10,920 --> 01:52:15,679
Speaker 2: being that guy with the synthesizers and putting those sounds under.

1812
01:52:15,800 --> 01:52:18,720
Speaker 2: I says, I'll still come into the studio when you

1813
01:52:18,760 --> 01:52:21,360
Speaker 2: guys go, but I'll be like it used to be.

1814
01:52:21,680 --> 01:52:24,280
Speaker 2: I'll program for David whatever he needs me to do,

1815
01:52:24,360 --> 01:52:26,920
Speaker 2: I'll do. But I won't feel like I have to

1816
01:52:27,000 --> 01:52:30,559
Speaker 2: leave my mark, you know, you know, I won't feel

1817
01:52:30,560 --> 01:52:32,719
Speaker 2: like I have to leave my mark. I'll just help David.

1818
01:52:33,000 --> 01:52:36,840
Speaker 2: And I wound up doing another two world tours after

1819
01:52:36,880 --> 01:52:39,479
Speaker 2: that because I didn't want to leave them in the lurch.

1820
01:52:40,000 --> 01:52:42,680
Speaker 2: I wanted to help them still be able to do

1821
01:52:42,840 --> 01:52:45,840
Speaker 2: Rosanna and these other songs and pull them off live.

1822
01:52:47,439 --> 01:52:50,799
Speaker 2: So I did another two world tours with them. After

1823
01:52:50,880 --> 01:52:54,280
Speaker 2: I had quit, I just was no longer a band member.

1824
01:52:54,360 --> 01:52:58,120
Speaker 2: I didn't have to do the interviews, you know, after soundcheck,

1825
01:52:58,160 --> 01:53:03,080
Speaker 2: I could go relax in my hotel room. And you know,

1826
01:53:03,240 --> 01:53:06,320
Speaker 2: I thought, you know, I thought, I saw I had

1827
01:53:06,320 --> 01:53:09,160
Speaker 2: such success just writing this song on my own, called

1828
01:53:09,240 --> 01:53:11,599
Speaker 2: Human Nature, you know what I mean, just doing wasn't

1829
01:53:11,600 --> 01:53:15,920
Speaker 2: writing it for anybody, but it got the atmosphere of it,

1830
01:53:16,000 --> 01:53:18,320
Speaker 2: caught Quincy's attention and stuff, and I thought, you know,

1831
01:53:18,439 --> 01:53:21,799
Speaker 2: I'm gonna start focusing more on on doing that stuff,

1832
01:53:23,160 --> 01:53:25,599
Speaker 2: you know, maybe maybe paying a little bit more attention

1833
01:53:25,640 --> 01:53:26,240
Speaker 2: to my writing.

1834
01:53:27,680 --> 01:53:30,920
Speaker 3: Okay, how did Q ultimately get Human Nature?

1835
01:53:32,000 --> 01:53:34,800
Speaker 2: You know, I'd already been in the studio working on

1836
01:53:34,960 --> 01:53:38,920
Speaker 2: doing synthesizer overdubs on the Thriller album. On various songs,

1837
01:53:40,240 --> 01:53:43,840
Speaker 2: Q had asked David Page, you know, they were looking

1838
01:53:43,920 --> 01:53:47,040
Speaker 2: for an up tempo rock and roll song for the album.

1839
01:53:47,640 --> 01:53:51,320
Speaker 2: I remember very clearly he wanted something very simple. He

1840
01:53:51,360 --> 01:53:55,520
Speaker 2: wanted a simple rock and roll song like My Sharona,

1841
01:53:56,680 --> 01:54:00,240
Speaker 2: like the next My Sharona. He wanted something very very

1842
01:54:00,280 --> 01:54:02,960
Speaker 2: simple for Michael. That's what he was putting out to

1843
01:54:03,040 --> 01:54:06,680
Speaker 2: all his professional writers, of which I was not one of.

1844
01:54:06,760 --> 01:54:09,800
Speaker 2: I wasn't considered, you know. I was a synth guy

1845
01:54:09,840 --> 01:54:13,799
Speaker 2: in Toto, and I programmed for David Foster and David Page,

1846
01:54:13,800 --> 01:54:16,479
Speaker 2: but you didn't look at me as a writer at all.

1847
01:54:18,120 --> 01:54:21,799
Speaker 2: And so David Page was furiously working away writing these

1848
01:54:21,920 --> 01:54:26,840
Speaker 2: trying to trying to write stuff for Quincy for Michael's album.

1849
01:54:26,960 --> 01:54:29,720
Speaker 2: And I lived with David at the time, and I

1850
01:54:29,880 --> 01:54:35,760
Speaker 2: was kind of the I was the default studio engineer,

1851
01:54:37,680 --> 01:54:39,840
Speaker 2: you know. I was always helping David out, you know,

1852
01:54:39,920 --> 01:54:41,760
Speaker 2: for him letting me have the run of the place.

1853
01:54:42,240 --> 01:54:44,480
Speaker 2: I would do whatever he needed me to do in

1854
01:54:44,520 --> 01:54:48,880
Speaker 2: the studio. And I had been working on this song

1855
01:54:49,160 --> 01:54:52,000
Speaker 2: while on the road with Toto. I'd been finishing I'd

1856
01:54:52,000 --> 01:54:54,600
Speaker 2: had a rough version of the song i'd been working

1857
01:54:54,600 --> 01:54:57,360
Speaker 2: on called Human Nature, where just I was singing it.

1858
01:54:57,440 --> 01:55:01,120
Speaker 2: The lyrics weren't done. It was very rough, but the

1859
01:55:01,200 --> 01:55:05,560
Speaker 2: whole song was basically there, and I had recorded it.

1860
01:55:05,720 --> 01:55:09,120
Speaker 2: I threw it on cassette, and David called down to me.

1861
01:55:10,320 --> 01:55:13,520
Speaker 2: And the night before he had been trying I had

1862
01:55:13,520 --> 01:55:16,840
Speaker 2: helped him record a couple of grooves that were stuff

1863
01:55:16,880 --> 01:55:21,080
Speaker 2: he was gonna was to target Michael and to give

1864
01:55:21,120 --> 01:55:23,440
Speaker 2: Quincy what he was asking for. And he called down

1865
01:55:23,520 --> 01:55:27,440
Speaker 2: to me and said that Quincy's assistant was on the way.

1866
01:55:27,520 --> 01:55:29,880
Speaker 2: Would I throw those two things on cassette for him?

1867
01:55:31,640 --> 01:55:34,920
Speaker 2: Lo and Behold, we were fresh out of cassettes. I

1868
01:55:35,000 --> 01:55:38,360
Speaker 2: had just used the last cassette. We had these custom

1869
01:55:38,440 --> 01:55:41,240
Speaker 2: cassettes made that could maybe hold three songs. They were

1870
01:55:41,320 --> 01:55:44,200
Speaker 2: kind of short, they just were like fifteen minutes long,

1871
01:55:46,200 --> 01:55:48,800
Speaker 2: and we were fresh out of cassettes. So what I

1872
01:55:48,800 --> 01:55:51,440
Speaker 2: did was I just I flipped the tape over, I

1873
01:55:51,560 --> 01:55:56,920
Speaker 2: rewound it, I relabeled it, and I recorded David songs

1874
01:55:57,000 --> 01:56:00,640
Speaker 2: on the on the A side of the cassette. And

1875
01:56:00,680 --> 01:56:05,800
Speaker 2: then Quincy's story is that he was in his office

1876
01:56:05,960 --> 01:56:08,120
Speaker 2: he listened to what David had done he listened to

1877
01:56:08,120 --> 01:56:12,920
Speaker 2: the cassette and what happened was auto reverse kicked in.

1878
01:56:13,640 --> 01:56:18,360
Speaker 2: Now you remember auto reverse, don't you, Bob? Of course, okay,

1879
01:56:20,280 --> 01:56:23,240
Speaker 2: auto reverse kicked in. He calls David Page to the

1880
01:56:23,280 --> 01:56:27,240
Speaker 2: next day and David said it took him twenty minutes.

1881
01:56:27,640 --> 01:56:29,600
Speaker 2: David didn't know what the hell he was talking about.

1882
01:56:29,600 --> 01:56:33,120
Speaker 2: He's describing this song. He's all excited about this song

1883
01:56:33,240 --> 01:56:36,680
Speaker 2: David had sent him. And David finally said, you know,

1884
01:56:36,720 --> 01:56:41,000
Speaker 2: I think you're talking about one of Steve's songs, you know,

1885
01:56:42,600 --> 01:56:44,760
Speaker 2: which is what it was. Yeah, the lyrics weren't done.

1886
01:56:44,760 --> 01:56:47,800
Speaker 2: I had the chorus, The chorus lyrics were intact. He

1887
01:56:47,920 --> 01:56:53,080
Speaker 2: loved my title. He loved the atmosphere is what he loved.

1888
01:56:54,560 --> 01:56:58,200
Speaker 2: And it was a complete total fluke.

1889
01:57:00,080 --> 01:57:05,080
Speaker 3: I know people who've written hit songs and they live

1890
01:57:05,160 --> 01:57:10,320
Speaker 3: off that one song their whole life. Needless to say,

1891
01:57:10,840 --> 01:57:13,960
Speaker 3: you wrote a song that was a hit. It was

1892
01:57:14,040 --> 01:57:16,760
Speaker 3: on one of the most successful albums of all time

1893
01:57:16,800 --> 01:57:20,480
Speaker 3: by a legendary artist. A did you own it all?

1894
01:57:20,920 --> 01:57:25,080
Speaker 3: And B is it still a cash register? Cash machine?

1895
01:57:26,280 --> 01:57:29,720
Speaker 2: I owned? A? Quincy asked. At one point we were

1896
01:57:29,720 --> 01:57:31,440
Speaker 2: on the road. He esked. He told me that I

1897
01:57:31,480 --> 01:57:34,080
Speaker 2: needed to finish the lyrics. They were definitely doing the song,

1898
01:57:34,520 --> 01:57:37,400
Speaker 2: we had cut it. I sent him my verse lyrics,

1899
01:57:38,000 --> 01:57:42,800
Speaker 2: which he was underwhelmed with. Loved my chorus and everything,

1900
01:57:42,880 --> 01:57:46,440
Speaker 2: but was very underwhelmed with my verse lyrics completely understandably

1901
01:57:46,920 --> 01:57:49,640
Speaker 2: asked me would I mind if he brought in a lyricist,

1902
01:57:50,440 --> 01:57:54,000
Speaker 2: and I, to my credit, I was like absolutely. You know,

1903
01:57:54,040 --> 01:57:57,560
Speaker 2: I had zero ego as far as as far as

1904
01:57:57,640 --> 01:58:01,160
Speaker 2: being a lyricist went. You know, sometimes I got lucky,

1905
01:58:01,240 --> 01:58:05,560
Speaker 2: but you know, I said absolutely. He brought in John Bettis,

1906
01:58:05,680 --> 01:58:11,720
Speaker 2: who just nailed it, wrote this, wrote these three amazing

1907
01:58:11,840 --> 01:58:16,800
Speaker 2: verses that gave the song a narrative and made this

1908
01:58:16,920 --> 01:58:20,960
Speaker 2: song really solid. But I hung on to two thirds

1909
01:58:20,960 --> 01:58:25,080
Speaker 2: of it and I had my own publishing and it's

1910
01:58:25,200 --> 01:58:28,040
Speaker 2: done very well to me over the years.

1911
01:58:28,560 --> 01:58:32,200
Speaker 3: Okay, tell me about working on Henley's Boys of Summer.

1912
01:58:34,040 --> 01:58:36,680
Speaker 2: Sure that one was easy. The real interesting one is

1913
01:58:36,680 --> 01:58:39,120
Speaker 2: is is dirty Laundry? Wait?

1914
01:58:39,120 --> 01:58:42,200
Speaker 3: Wait? Start with? Dirty Laundry was on the first album.

1915
01:58:42,440 --> 01:58:45,400
Speaker 2: Sure, you know, I got to make sure I mentioned

1916
01:58:45,480 --> 01:58:48,320
Speaker 2: Danny Cooch, who was a co producer and wrote the

1917
01:58:48,360 --> 01:58:51,720
Speaker 2: song with Don Hanley. I forgot to mention Cooch once

1918
01:58:52,280 --> 01:58:55,760
Speaker 2: and much to my chagrin, I got a call at

1919
01:58:55,800 --> 01:58:58,560
Speaker 2: one o'clock in the morning. Once I'm at David Page's

1920
01:58:58,600 --> 01:59:01,400
Speaker 2: house working like I I typically was at that hour,

1921
01:59:01,760 --> 01:59:03,480
Speaker 2: I got to call at one o'clock in the morning

1922
01:59:03,480 --> 01:59:05,920
Speaker 2: for my brother Jeff. He had been at the studio

1923
01:59:05,960 --> 01:59:08,839
Speaker 2: all day, Record One, which was right down the street,

1924
01:59:08,960 --> 01:59:13,960
Speaker 2: which was five minutes away from David Page's house. They'd

1925
01:59:13,960 --> 01:59:16,440
Speaker 2: been working all day on this trying to get this track,

1926
01:59:16,560 --> 01:59:19,560
Speaker 2: and they were having trouble. Would I come down and

1927
01:59:19,640 --> 01:59:22,080
Speaker 2: see if I could help out? And I really had

1928
01:59:22,120 --> 01:59:23,800
Speaker 2: no idea what they were doing. I said, if they're

1929
01:59:23,800 --> 01:59:27,640
Speaker 2: willing to experiment. I didn't know who's this for. He goes,

1930
01:59:27,680 --> 01:59:30,880
Speaker 2: it's the drummer from the Eagles, and I remember thinking,

1931
01:59:31,040 --> 01:59:33,240
Speaker 2: you know, I mean, I love the Eagle, knew the Eagles,

1932
01:59:33,280 --> 01:59:36,320
Speaker 2: loved the Eagles. I didn't know who was who. I

1933
01:59:36,360 --> 01:59:39,440
Speaker 2: didn't know who's saying what? You know what I mean?

1934
01:59:39,520 --> 01:59:41,720
Speaker 2: I remember thinking, Wow, the Eagles are that big that

1935
01:59:41,800 --> 01:59:46,240
Speaker 2: even the drummer has a solo album. You know. I

1936
01:59:46,280 --> 01:59:50,040
Speaker 2: hadn't heard. I didn't know that Don Henley was that

1937
01:59:50,240 --> 01:59:55,040
Speaker 2: voice that I just loved from the Eagles. I had

1938
01:59:55,040 --> 01:59:58,240
Speaker 2: no idea so I went down there and I just

1939
01:59:58,240 --> 02:00:00,960
Speaker 2: brought a small piece of modular Again. I've actually got

1940
02:00:01,000 --> 02:00:04,920
Speaker 2: the thing I brought down right over here. Anyway, it

1941
02:00:05,120 --> 02:00:08,680
Speaker 2: was why I one of the reasons I loved it

1942
02:00:08,720 --> 02:00:11,760
Speaker 2: so much is because my brother was there, My brother Jeff,

1943
02:00:11,880 --> 02:00:18,480
Speaker 2: who had my brother Jeff was there, and Jeff had

1944
02:00:18,480 --> 02:00:20,720
Speaker 2: seen me. Jeff would get very frustrated with me with

1945
02:00:20,840 --> 02:00:24,000
Speaker 2: how much I had gotten into the technology and was,

1946
02:00:24,320 --> 02:00:26,800
Speaker 2: you know, had my nose in these manuals all the time,

1947
02:00:27,280 --> 02:00:30,760
Speaker 2: and how deep into synthesizers I was getting because in

1948
02:00:30,800 --> 02:00:33,960
Speaker 2: Toto he pretty much they pretty much hated that stuff.

1949
02:00:34,000 --> 02:00:37,040
Speaker 2: They never played to click tracks. They didn't like you

1950
02:00:37,120 --> 02:00:39,080
Speaker 2: know what I mean. They were all such great players,

1951
02:00:39,080 --> 02:00:41,880
Speaker 2: they didn't want to know about sequences and all this

1952
02:00:42,000 --> 02:00:44,960
Speaker 2: kind of stuff. Anyway, I walk in there, I assessed

1953
02:00:45,000 --> 02:00:47,880
Speaker 2: the situation that they wanted to use this real far

1954
02:00:47,960 --> 02:00:51,440
Speaker 2: Fista organ that Danny Cooch had there, and they but

1955
02:00:51,520 --> 02:00:55,040
Speaker 2: they wanted it perfect, and luckily they had recorded it

1956
02:00:55,080 --> 02:00:59,720
Speaker 2: with a drum machine. Luckily, Greg Ladani the engineer, had

1957
02:00:59,720 --> 02:01:02,880
Speaker 2: recorded a sink tone, and I was able to in

1958
02:01:02,960 --> 02:01:09,840
Speaker 2: this very in a very fast way, sync up the

1959
02:01:09,920 --> 02:01:12,560
Speaker 2: drum machine again and have it trigger a gate that

1960
02:01:12,680 --> 02:01:16,520
Speaker 2: just triggered this this far Fisa organ part so that

1961
02:01:16,560 --> 02:01:19,600
Speaker 2: it was perfect, that it played along with the track

1962
02:01:19,640 --> 02:01:23,560
Speaker 2: and was perfect, and everything just clicked. So I loved it.

1963
02:01:23,920 --> 02:01:26,120
Speaker 2: I love the fact that my brother Jeff saw how

1964
02:01:26,240 --> 02:01:31,000
Speaker 2: handy this knowledge that was very hard earned, how it

1965
02:01:31,040 --> 02:01:33,120
Speaker 2: came into you know what I mean, how useful it

1966
02:01:33,440 --> 02:01:38,160
Speaker 2: could be in the studio. You know. Anyway, it went great.

1967
02:01:38,840 --> 02:01:41,880
Speaker 2: They loved me. They thought I was brilliant that I

1968
02:01:42,400 --> 02:01:45,080
Speaker 2: this thing just came together like that, and they started

1969
02:01:45,120 --> 02:01:50,800
Speaker 2: using me all the time. This is now jump to

1970
02:01:50,840 --> 02:01:53,800
Speaker 2: the second the next album they had recorded, already recorded

1971
02:01:53,800 --> 02:01:59,760
Speaker 2: this song boys this summer, and it was done, and

1972
02:02:00,440 --> 02:02:06,280
Speaker 2: Don had decided, to the point I had before about singers,

1973
02:02:06,680 --> 02:02:12,080
Speaker 2: about singing, Don Henley decided that you know what, he

1974
02:02:12,240 --> 02:02:18,520
Speaker 2: wanted it up one half step. Song was completely done,

1975
02:02:18,760 --> 02:02:23,760
Speaker 2: completely recorded, but Don decided that the chorus of the song,

1976
02:02:24,680 --> 02:02:26,760
Speaker 2: if he sang it up one half step, it made

1977
02:02:26,800 --> 02:02:31,880
Speaker 2: a difference to what his voice sounded like, and that

1978
02:02:31,960 --> 02:02:34,840
Speaker 2: his voice sounded better when it was up a half step.

1979
02:02:35,200 --> 02:02:39,360
Speaker 2: Now they called me with the intention of thinking that

1980
02:02:39,480 --> 02:02:46,360
Speaker 2: I had some magic box that could transpose the whole track. Okay,

1981
02:02:47,240 --> 02:02:51,960
Speaker 2: I didn't you know there was You know, later on,

1982
02:02:52,240 --> 02:02:55,120
Speaker 2: we now have things that can do miracles like that

1983
02:02:55,360 --> 02:02:59,760
Speaker 2: pretty darn good these days, but back then there was no.

1984
02:02:59,800 --> 02:03:03,720
Speaker 2: So what I did while most of the guys were

1985
02:03:03,720 --> 02:03:06,040
Speaker 2: out of the room is The co writer on the

1986
02:03:06,080 --> 02:03:09,880
Speaker 2: song was Mike Campbell, the guitar player from Tom Petty's band.

1987
02:03:10,280 --> 02:03:12,040
Speaker 2: They had done it with a drum machine. They still

1988
02:03:12,040 --> 02:03:14,760
Speaker 2: had the drum machine there and up, and we just

1989
02:03:15,080 --> 02:03:19,080
Speaker 2: re recorded the basic track. I re recorded it, I

1990
02:03:19,120 --> 02:03:22,280
Speaker 2: played it on synth, I played the figure on synth.

1991
02:03:22,800 --> 02:03:26,000
Speaker 2: Mike Campbell was there, replayed his guitar part in the

1992
02:03:26,040 --> 02:03:29,800
Speaker 2: new key. It was with the drum machine, and they

1993
02:03:29,840 --> 02:03:32,400
Speaker 2: did all the rest of the track in the new key,

1994
02:03:33,160 --> 02:03:34,920
Speaker 2: and it wound up being a very big record.

1995
02:03:36,400 --> 02:03:41,280
Speaker 3: Wow, uh, switching gears. Tell me about the passing of

1996
02:03:41,320 --> 02:03:43,040
Speaker 3: your brothers.

1997
02:03:44,640 --> 02:03:49,240
Speaker 2: The passing of my brothers was always an absolute heartbreak.

1998
02:03:51,880 --> 02:03:56,800
Speaker 2: Jeff was this sudden shocking thing. I was sure when

1999
02:03:56,840 --> 02:03:58,480
Speaker 2: I got the phone call and I was on my

2000
02:03:58,520 --> 02:04:00,920
Speaker 2: way to the hospital that it was just going to

2001
02:04:00,960 --> 02:04:05,760
Speaker 2: be his warning, his red flag to stop smoking cigarettes.

2002
02:04:05,840 --> 02:04:09,320
Speaker 2: And he was only thirty eight years old. Jeff was

2003
02:04:09,320 --> 02:04:13,680
Speaker 2: in relatively good shape. He'd always had trouble with his

2004
02:04:13,920 --> 02:04:17,920
Speaker 2: arms after shows. There was a circulation thing with his arms.

2005
02:04:20,240 --> 02:04:23,520
Speaker 2: You know, Jeff was the one who Jeff took better

2006
02:04:23,560 --> 02:04:26,320
Speaker 2: care of himself than anyone in the band as far

2007
02:04:26,360 --> 02:04:31,160
Speaker 2: as far as habits went and staying at the party.

2008
02:04:31,360 --> 02:04:35,040
Speaker 2: Jeff was married and had just had his third kid,

2009
02:04:35,760 --> 02:04:41,000
Speaker 2: and his kids and his wife were very, very important

2010
02:04:41,040 --> 02:04:43,920
Speaker 2: to him. Jeff always went. You know, Jeff at this

2011
02:04:44,080 --> 02:04:47,720
Speaker 2: point was always going home at a decent hour and

2012
02:04:47,840 --> 02:04:54,080
Speaker 2: taking care of himself. And it was completely shocking, you know,

2013
02:04:55,000 --> 02:04:59,720
Speaker 2: it was completely shocking and heartbreaking. And I still think

2014
02:04:59,720 --> 02:05:02,760
Speaker 2: about every day. I still all his friends people. It's

2015
02:05:02,800 --> 02:05:07,000
Speaker 2: been thirty two years. It's been thirty two years, and

2016
02:05:07,080 --> 02:05:11,040
Speaker 2: I still think about it all the time, and you know,

2017
02:05:11,360 --> 02:05:14,040
Speaker 2: I can't help but think about all the stuff we

2018
02:05:14,040 --> 02:05:16,400
Speaker 2: could have done by this point too. Like I said,

2019
02:05:16,440 --> 02:05:17,960
Speaker 2: you know, when Jeff and I lived together at home,

2020
02:05:18,000 --> 02:05:21,040
Speaker 2: we were at each other's throats. My brother Mike was

2021
02:05:21,080 --> 02:05:23,840
Speaker 2: the typical middle brother that kept peace with both of us,

2022
02:05:23,840 --> 02:05:25,840
Speaker 2: but Jeff and I were at each other's throats. The

2023
02:05:25,960 --> 02:05:30,000
Speaker 2: second he moved out of the house at seventeen, he

2024
02:05:30,480 --> 02:05:34,320
Speaker 2: became suddenly he was the coolest older brother ever, and

2025
02:05:34,400 --> 02:05:37,800
Speaker 2: I was always invited to his apartment. I could always

2026
02:05:37,800 --> 02:05:40,800
Speaker 2: bring friends over when he was on the road, I

2027
02:05:40,800 --> 02:05:44,960
Speaker 2: could use his apartment. He was the coolest, most supportive

2028
02:05:45,240 --> 02:05:48,600
Speaker 2: older brother anyone could wish for. Then we're in a

2029
02:05:48,640 --> 02:05:54,560
Speaker 2: band together and we're back in those tight quarters and

2030
02:05:54,680 --> 02:05:59,120
Speaker 2: especially me being this synth guy and him being Jeff Piccaro,

2031
02:05:59,360 --> 02:06:04,000
Speaker 2: mister gru mister pocket, which I totally appreciated it. But

2032
02:06:06,080 --> 02:06:08,680
Speaker 2: the technology, you know what I mean, I was way

2033
02:06:08,720 --> 02:06:12,440
Speaker 2: into it, and it was never it was never ever

2034
02:06:12,560 --> 02:06:16,640
Speaker 2: to replace anybody, you know, drum machines to us. I

2035
02:06:16,760 --> 02:06:19,280
Speaker 2: was there when Roger was developing it. Roger had worked

2036
02:06:19,320 --> 02:06:23,440
Speaker 2: for Leon Russell. It was all about just aiding in songwriting.

2037
02:06:24,080 --> 02:06:28,240
Speaker 2: It was never no one ever discussed replacing drummers. You know,

2038
02:06:28,360 --> 02:06:31,400
Speaker 2: Leon used Jim Keltner and Jim Gordon and it was

2039
02:06:31,440 --> 02:06:34,960
Speaker 2: all about you know, that was it was just like

2040
02:06:35,000 --> 02:06:39,560
Speaker 2: an improvement on a Roland rhythm ace, you know what

2041
02:06:39,640 --> 02:06:43,720
Speaker 2: I mean, which uh you know, ironically enough, a t

2042
02:06:43,960 --> 02:06:46,480
Speaker 2: R eight to OHO eight basedrum wound up replacing a

2043
02:06:46,480 --> 02:06:49,200
Speaker 2: hell of a lot more drummers than any Lynn drum

2044
02:06:49,200 --> 02:06:53,240
Speaker 2: machine or Oberheim drum machine or any other drum machine

2045
02:06:53,240 --> 02:06:56,840
Speaker 2: that had samples in it, right, you know what I mean?

2046
02:06:56,920 --> 02:07:00,680
Speaker 2: All of a sudden, this thing, you know, uh was

2047
02:07:00,760 --> 02:07:03,200
Speaker 2: much more popular than any of those drum machines. But

2048
02:07:03,640 --> 02:07:06,160
Speaker 2: you know, there was always all this discussion and debate,

2049
02:07:06,280 --> 02:07:10,240
Speaker 2: and of course people started using it on records, you

2050
02:07:10,280 --> 02:07:13,800
Speaker 2: know what I mean, and it was very upsetting to

2051
02:07:13,920 --> 02:07:16,520
Speaker 2: some drummers and stuff, and they felt like they were

2052
02:07:16,520 --> 02:07:20,280
Speaker 2: getting replaced. I always I never saw it that way.

2053
02:07:20,520 --> 02:07:25,000
Speaker 2: I saw it as who better to know what to

2054
02:07:25,040 --> 02:07:27,640
Speaker 2: do with a drum machine than a drummer? Who better

2055
02:07:27,720 --> 02:07:29,440
Speaker 2: to know what to do if they had a third

2056
02:07:29,560 --> 02:07:36,400
Speaker 2: arm than a drummer. You know, that was always my

2057
02:07:36,920 --> 02:07:39,720
Speaker 2: thing with it. It was never I had. Jeff Pacaro

2058
02:07:39,880 --> 02:07:44,240
Speaker 2: was my brother, and so whereas in Toto we bumped heads.

2059
02:07:44,320 --> 02:07:46,720
Speaker 2: As soon as I left Toto, and so that was

2060
02:07:46,760 --> 02:07:49,040
Speaker 2: like a good five years or so before he died.

2061
02:07:49,560 --> 02:07:53,120
Speaker 2: Jeff would come over any time I asked him to

2062
02:07:53,120 --> 02:07:56,200
Speaker 2: to play on my demos, and no matter what, whether

2063
02:07:56,240 --> 02:07:59,600
Speaker 2: it was to play drums or to play on some pads,

2064
02:07:59,840 --> 02:08:03,640
Speaker 2: or to play to program a drum machine, Jeff was

2065
02:08:03,680 --> 02:08:06,560
Speaker 2: willing to do anything for me. And I love that.

2066
02:08:06,680 --> 02:08:09,840
Speaker 2: Those last five years we were back to being he

2067
02:08:10,000 --> 02:08:13,040
Speaker 2: was back to being the coolest older brother anyone could

2068
02:08:13,040 --> 02:08:16,920
Speaker 2: ever wish for. My brother Mike was a whole nother

2069
02:08:17,000 --> 02:08:21,960
Speaker 2: situation that was really heartbreaking, being that it was the

2070
02:08:22,000 --> 02:08:27,839
Speaker 2: polar opposite of Jeff. Jeff was this single shocking event.

2071
02:08:29,000 --> 02:08:35,440
Speaker 2: Mike was this seven year long nightmare that his family

2072
02:08:35,480 --> 02:08:38,160
Speaker 2: had had to witness and deal with all of us.

2073
02:08:39,480 --> 02:08:44,280
Speaker 2: And you know, als could happen anywhere. First it happened

2074
02:08:44,320 --> 02:08:47,640
Speaker 2: to one of the It's such a cruel disease, and

2075
02:08:47,760 --> 02:08:50,720
Speaker 2: especially for Mike. One of the cruelest things was that

2076
02:08:50,800 --> 02:08:53,919
Speaker 2: it started in his hands. It could have started anywhere.

2077
02:08:54,360 --> 02:08:57,040
Speaker 2: Some people it starts in their feet. He could have

2078
02:08:57,160 --> 02:09:01,480
Speaker 2: done several tours if it had started in his legs

2079
02:09:01,560 --> 02:09:03,800
Speaker 2: or whatever, if his hands and arms were okay. But

2080
02:09:03,880 --> 02:09:08,200
Speaker 2: it started in his hands, in his arms, and he

2081
02:09:08,320 --> 02:09:12,040
Speaker 2: right away wasn't able to play. He had to stop working,

2082
02:09:12,200 --> 02:09:17,920
Speaker 2: and it was completely heartbreaking. I was lucky in that

2083
02:09:18,000 --> 02:09:21,680
Speaker 2: I lived very close to Mike. I lived lived literally

2084
02:09:21,760 --> 02:09:23,880
Speaker 2: two minutes away, and I was able to spend a

2085
02:09:23,920 --> 02:09:30,160
Speaker 2: lot of time with him, But completely heartbreaking, especially for

2086
02:09:30,240 --> 02:09:36,760
Speaker 2: his three children and his wife and of course my parents.

2087
02:09:37,720 --> 02:09:40,520
Speaker 3: What was ultimately what killed Jeff.

2088
02:09:41,920 --> 02:09:44,360
Speaker 2: You know, it was probably a combination of things. He

2089
02:09:44,440 --> 02:09:47,600
Speaker 2: had been you know, he had been using some pesticides outside,

2090
02:09:47,640 --> 02:09:50,760
Speaker 2: but he had been a life long smoker. You know,

2091
02:09:51,080 --> 02:09:54,840
Speaker 2: he'd been a life long smoker Marlborough Reds. You know,

2092
02:09:55,040 --> 02:09:57,760
Speaker 2: he had never stopped, you know, And yes, there was

2093
02:09:57,920 --> 02:10:03,720
Speaker 2: history of drug use, like all of us, but it

2094
02:10:03,840 --> 02:10:07,600
Speaker 2: still was this completely freak thing for a guy at

2095
02:10:07,640 --> 02:10:11,040
Speaker 2: thirty eight years old. Jeff used less drugs than any

2096
02:10:11,120 --> 02:10:14,080
Speaker 2: of us did than any of us did.

2097
02:10:14,720 --> 02:10:16,960
Speaker 3: Did he have a hard d fact or something or not?

2098
02:10:17,280 --> 02:10:20,240
Speaker 2: There was some Yeah, there was some damage there. There

2099
02:10:20,320 --> 02:10:24,240
Speaker 2: was some muscular damage. There was you know, the autopsy

2100
02:10:24,600 --> 02:10:27,360
Speaker 2: reports were very was very complicated.

2101
02:10:27,440 --> 02:10:33,160
Speaker 3: And you know, okay, so what's keep you busy?

2102
02:10:33,200 --> 02:10:37,080
Speaker 2: Now? What keeps being busy? Now? I am the most

2103
02:10:37,280 --> 02:10:42,400
Speaker 2: blessed old dude, you know, as far as you know,

2104
02:10:42,600 --> 02:10:46,120
Speaker 2: I've been very, very lucky my whole life. I haven't

2105
02:10:46,160 --> 02:10:49,000
Speaker 2: had to do anything but make music for a living,

2106
02:10:49,200 --> 02:10:55,640
Speaker 2: and I've been blessed with many different gigs in the

2107
02:10:55,720 --> 02:11:00,000
Speaker 2: music world. And after I left Toto, you know, songwriter,

2108
02:11:00,000 --> 02:11:03,280
Speaker 2: I wanted to be a professional songwriter. But you know what,

2109
02:11:04,760 --> 02:11:09,000
Speaker 2: without a deadline, I found I was useless. You know

2110
02:11:09,000 --> 02:11:11,760
Speaker 2: what I mean. I mean, without deadline's Total was useless.

2111
02:11:11,880 --> 02:11:13,880
Speaker 2: We would have never We'd still be working on the

2112
02:11:13,920 --> 02:11:17,360
Speaker 2: fourth album if there wasn't a deadline there. If someone

2113
02:11:17,360 --> 02:11:20,160
Speaker 2: didn't come and say, you know what, they're showing up

2114
02:11:20,160 --> 02:11:22,800
Speaker 2: in an hour to take the tapes. You know what

2115
02:11:22,800 --> 02:11:26,000
Speaker 2: I mean, you better put this down, we would have

2116
02:11:26,080 --> 02:11:28,879
Speaker 2: kept going. You know. We loved being in the studio.

2117
02:11:30,200 --> 02:11:37,120
Speaker 2: I loved my job so much so I uh, after

2118
02:11:37,160 --> 02:11:39,240
Speaker 2: I left the band for a while, my old friend

2119
02:11:39,320 --> 02:11:43,040
Speaker 2: James Howard, who I mentioned before, James Newton Howard, he

2120
02:11:43,080 --> 02:11:46,360
Speaker 2: had gotten into film scoring and he had a very

2121
02:11:46,400 --> 02:11:51,200
Speaker 2: successful career. His career took off. That was James's thing.

2122
02:11:51,280 --> 02:11:53,400
Speaker 2: He had arranged for us. He did a lot of

2123
02:11:53,480 --> 02:11:59,440
Speaker 2: arrangements for us on Total four in the following album.

2124
02:11:59,560 --> 02:12:03,000
Speaker 2: But got into film scoring and was doing very very well.

2125
02:12:03,440 --> 02:12:05,520
Speaker 2: And we lived very close to each other, and I

2126
02:12:05,520 --> 02:12:07,920
Speaker 2: would help him. I would do some synthesizer stuff for

2127
02:12:08,000 --> 02:12:11,000
Speaker 2: him on occasion, and at one point he asked me,

2128
02:12:11,080 --> 02:12:13,120
Speaker 2: he said, do you want to try doing this? He'd

2129
02:12:13,160 --> 02:12:16,000
Speaker 2: been helping some of his other friends who were into

2130
02:12:16,000 --> 02:12:19,960
Speaker 2: film scoring. He had helped them by getting them jobs

2131
02:12:20,000 --> 02:12:22,240
Speaker 2: where he would write the theme to a TV show

2132
02:12:22,640 --> 02:12:24,960
Speaker 2: like Er, and then in one of his high school

2133
02:12:25,000 --> 02:12:28,880
Speaker 2: friend Marty Davitsch would scored all the episodes for fourteen years.

2134
02:12:28,960 --> 02:12:31,840
Speaker 2: You know, James was helping his friends out like that.

2135
02:12:32,360 --> 02:12:35,200
Speaker 2: He was doing very very well, and he helped me

2136
02:12:35,240 --> 02:12:38,080
Speaker 2: out that way. He did that a few times. He

2137
02:12:38,080 --> 02:12:40,440
Speaker 2: helped get me some gigs. He got me in there,

2138
02:12:40,480 --> 02:12:44,920
Speaker 2: I mean right away right away. But the reality was

2139
02:12:45,000 --> 02:12:47,800
Speaker 2: again I whereas I could do it, and there were

2140
02:12:47,840 --> 02:12:51,200
Speaker 2: certain aspects of it that I did well at. I

2141
02:12:51,880 --> 02:12:57,320
Speaker 2: wasn't great at it. I didn't It wasn't really my lane.

2142
02:12:57,360 --> 02:12:59,560
Speaker 2: At the end of the day, I was making a living.

2143
02:12:59,640 --> 02:13:02,560
Speaker 2: I would occasionally get a show, but a lot of times,

2144
02:13:02,600 --> 02:13:05,760
Speaker 2: you know, you'd run that gauntlet of getting a TV

2145
02:13:05,880 --> 02:13:09,840
Speaker 2: show and auditioning and submitting, and sometimes you'd get the

2146
02:13:09,840 --> 02:13:12,080
Speaker 2: TV show and then it would last for two episodes

2147
02:13:12,200 --> 02:13:14,960
Speaker 2: and it'd be gone and you'd have to start over.

2148
02:13:15,960 --> 02:13:19,960
Speaker 2: James helped me start scoring, and it was very up

2149
02:13:20,000 --> 02:13:23,000
Speaker 2: and down for me, and then total came back into

2150
02:13:23,040 --> 02:13:26,560
Speaker 2: my life. Luke asked me if I wanted to, if

2151
02:13:26,600 --> 02:13:28,520
Speaker 2: I wanted to go on the road with them and

2152
02:13:28,560 --> 02:13:31,480
Speaker 2: do one summer to benefit my brother Mike and That

2153
02:13:31,560 --> 02:13:35,320
Speaker 2: turned into nine years of touring with the band again,

2154
02:13:35,440 --> 02:13:38,720
Speaker 2: which I had a blast with. But when I got home,

2155
02:13:38,880 --> 02:13:41,000
Speaker 2: I knew I was done touring. I knew I wanted

2156
02:13:41,040 --> 02:13:45,680
Speaker 2: to stay home, and I, you know, I figured I

2157
02:13:45,720 --> 02:13:47,240
Speaker 2: was going to have to try to get another film

2158
02:13:47,240 --> 02:13:51,040
Speaker 2: gig or something, and it turns out I didn't. I'm

2159
02:13:51,080 --> 02:13:55,880
Speaker 2: able to. I've been able to live off of my royalties.

2160
02:13:55,920 --> 02:13:59,480
Speaker 2: And then I just made a deal with Primary Wave

2161
02:13:59,520 --> 02:14:03,000
Speaker 2: and the Jack Sexton State and now all I do

2162
02:14:03,360 --> 02:14:07,480
Speaker 2: every day, all day is work on my songs, and

2163
02:14:07,560 --> 02:14:12,320
Speaker 2: I'm in heaven and I'm film scoring. Taught me I

2164
02:14:12,360 --> 02:14:16,360
Speaker 2: developed this finishing muscle. I kind of grew up. And

2165
02:14:17,240 --> 02:14:20,120
Speaker 2: I'm sitting on like two solo albums worth of stuff

2166
02:14:20,160 --> 02:14:24,680
Speaker 2: now and all I do all day is write songs

2167
02:14:24,720 --> 02:14:28,240
Speaker 2: and finish them. And I'm in my lane, you know.

2168
02:14:28,480 --> 02:14:30,320
Speaker 2: And when I go to the Baked Potato Now and

2169
02:14:30,360 --> 02:14:33,920
Speaker 2: hear my friends play, I don't feel like a piece

2170
02:14:33,960 --> 02:14:37,560
Speaker 2: of crap when I leave, I'm very proud of them.

2171
02:14:37,960 --> 02:14:41,760
Speaker 2: And I know that now from here on out, I

2172
02:14:41,800 --> 02:14:45,160
Speaker 2: get to do what I do best, which is to

2173
02:14:45,240 --> 02:14:48,480
Speaker 2: write the kind of songs I write, and I get

2174
02:14:48,480 --> 02:14:50,840
Speaker 2: to finish them and I'm going to be able to

2175
02:14:50,880 --> 02:14:52,440
Speaker 2: do this for the rest of my life.

2176
02:14:52,880 --> 02:14:56,280
Speaker 3: Just to be clear before we go, you sold all

2177
02:14:56,360 --> 02:15:03,440
Speaker 3: your songwriting royalties to Primaryry Wave in the Jacksons eight percent,

2178
02:15:04,480 --> 02:15:06,440
Speaker 3: And what was the decision involved in that.

2179
02:15:07,720 --> 02:15:10,600
Speaker 2: It was a huge decision. It was to just kind

2180
02:15:10,640 --> 02:15:15,600
Speaker 2: of to be able to just do what I love

2181
02:15:15,680 --> 02:15:18,840
Speaker 2: to do, to not have to tour ever again, to

2182
02:15:19,000 --> 02:15:22,520
Speaker 2: not do TV shows which own me, to just be

2183
02:15:22,600 --> 02:15:27,240
Speaker 2: able to do what I love doing. And this affords

2184
02:15:27,320 --> 02:15:27,600
Speaker 2: me that.

2185
02:15:29,400 --> 02:15:33,080
Speaker 3: Okay, Steve's been great talking to you. Tell quite a story.

2186
02:15:33,320 --> 02:15:36,000
Speaker 3: You're quite alive. You know, usually we hear from the

2187
02:15:36,080 --> 02:15:38,400
Speaker 3: lead singer, the lead guitars. We don't know the person

2188
02:15:38,440 --> 02:15:40,720
Speaker 3: I've seen you on stage, but I've never known what

2189
02:15:40,760 --> 02:15:43,240
Speaker 3: you were like. You're a great guy. I want to

2190
02:15:43,240 --> 02:15:46,120
Speaker 3: thank you for taking this time to talk to my audience.

2191
02:15:46,920 --> 02:15:50,120
Speaker 2: Great great, great meeting you, great talking to you.

2192
02:15:50,200 --> 02:15:54,320
Speaker 3: Okay, you bet till next time. This is Bob left

2193
02:15:54,360 --> 02:15:54,680
Speaker 3: six

2194
02:16:16,320 --> 02:16:16,440
Speaker 2: Sh