WEBVTT - Rick Wilson & Tim Wu 0:00:00.640 --> 0:00:04.160 Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics, 0:00:04.360 --> 0:00:07.160 where we discussed the top political headlines with some of 0:00:07.160 --> 0:00:10.959 today's best minds, and a new Harvard poll puts Trump 0:00:11.000 --> 0:00:14.640 at a dismal twenty nine percent approval among young voters. 0:00:14.840 --> 0:00:17.239 We have such a great show for you today. The 0:00:17.320 --> 0:00:21.720 Lincoln Project's owner Rick Wilson joins us to discuss Trump's 0:00:21.800 --> 0:00:26.200 indefensible pardons, and we'll talk to Tim wu about his 0:00:26.400 --> 0:00:30.520 new book, The Age of Extraction, How tech platforms conquered 0:00:30.520 --> 0:00:34.240 the economy and threaten our future prosperity. But first the news. 0:00:34.640 --> 0:00:37.400 So, Molly, you may have heard on Sunday news shows 0:00:37.640 --> 0:00:41.239 Scott Persent loves to talk about how he is a farmer. 0:00:41.320 --> 0:00:42.519 He's no longer a farmer. 0:00:42.920 --> 0:00:44.600 Aw what happened? 0:00:45.120 --> 0:00:47.239 Well, Molly, I don't know if you've heard what This 0:00:47.320 --> 0:00:49.839 economy is not very good for a soybean farmer like 0:00:49.960 --> 0:00:50.560 Scott Persent. 0:00:51.159 --> 0:00:52.519 Yeah, so you know what happened. 0:00:53.040 --> 0:00:56.080 He sells the soybean farm because everybody's getting out of 0:00:56.080 --> 0:00:58.360 this economy and out of this market because it's about 0:00:58.360 --> 0:01:00.720 to go very bad from Scott p acent stupid decisions. 0:01:01.040 --> 0:01:03.720 I'd be real curious to know who he sold it 0:01:03.800 --> 0:01:07.360 to and how much they overpaid. I could see like 0:01:07.520 --> 0:01:10.559 Trump World tends to get really good offers for things 0:01:10.560 --> 0:01:14.600 they're selling, and I just I'm very curious as to why, 0:01:14.880 --> 0:01:18.320 if that makes any sense, Like why do people love 0:01:18.520 --> 0:01:22.280 to buy things from Trump World? Why do foreign countries 0:01:22.440 --> 0:01:27.119 love to give Jared money to invest? Why? I mean, 0:01:27.360 --> 0:01:31.679 it's just so interesting that these people are making so 0:01:31.840 --> 0:01:34.120 much money. Now, it's odd. 0:01:34.280 --> 0:01:38.080 Why Well, if there's one thing, I know, it's really 0:01:38.200 --> 0:01:39.720 just so sad to me that he's not gonna be 0:01:39.720 --> 0:01:41.360 able to talk about this on the Sunday shows. 0:01:41.760 --> 0:01:45.080 You know, it's worth just for a minute pulling back 0:01:45.200 --> 0:01:49.080 and thinking about Scott Besson, who is now ultimately out 0:01:49.080 --> 0:01:53.360 there defending some pretty stupid moves that our government has 0:01:53.440 --> 0:01:56.600 made and trying to make the case that like all 0:01:56.680 --> 0:01:59.800 of this is on purpose, when in fact it's clearly not. 0:02:00.440 --> 0:02:03.320 The tariffs are not working. Bessend thinks that if he 0:02:03.440 --> 0:02:05.360 goes on, you know, if he goes to the Deal 0:02:05.400 --> 0:02:08.240 Book conference and yells about the New York Times and 0:02:08.320 --> 0:02:11.840 goes on Morning Joe and yells at the Morning Joe anchors, 0:02:11.880 --> 0:02:15.480 that this will somehow make Trump happy. And the problem 0:02:15.480 --> 0:02:18.520 with like having this imperial presidency, which is what we have, 0:02:18.680 --> 0:02:22.840 this Project twenty twenty five fantasy of conservative think tanks, 0:02:22.960 --> 0:02:26.040 this presidency that controls all the arms of the federal government. 0:02:26.080 --> 0:02:28.200 Is that so much of what's happening in the federal 0:02:28.240 --> 0:02:31.440 government is to please Trump and not to make the 0:02:31.480 --> 0:02:36.680 economy better or help people or solve problems. Like it's 0:02:36.840 --> 0:02:41.120 literally just to please one person who happens to be 0:02:41.240 --> 0:02:46.000 basically a child, and a pretty dysfunctional child. So it's 0:02:46.120 --> 0:02:50.239 just really such an incredible waste of a federal government 0:02:50.480 --> 0:02:54.480 to use it all just to make some Orange guy happy. 0:02:55.000 --> 0:02:59.400 So, speaking of Trump's cabinet of misfit sociopaths, Tom Holman, 0:02:59.520 --> 0:03:02.880 my least remember, is defending President Trump after he called 0:03:02.880 --> 0:03:04.760 the Smalley community garbage. 0:03:05.040 --> 0:03:07.720 Yeah. So part of what happens every weekend is that 0:03:08.120 --> 0:03:10.680 members of Trump World go on television to defend his 0:03:10.760 --> 0:03:16.120 most indefensible projects. Trump is going after Somali immigrants why 0:03:16.200 --> 0:03:19.280 because everything else is not working for him? And he 0:03:19.320 --> 0:03:23.600 remembers that when he ran for president in twenty fifteen, 0:03:24.240 --> 0:03:27.800 when we were all young, when I was in my thirties, 0:03:27.919 --> 0:03:31.280 Do you remember your thirties? I remember my thirties when 0:03:31.320 --> 0:03:35.000 I slept through the night and anyway, in our thirties, 0:03:35.320 --> 0:03:38.200 Donald Trump came down that elevator and he said, all 0:03:38.240 --> 0:03:41.800 Mexicans are rapists, and some I assume are good people. 0:03:42.080 --> 0:03:44.640 And what he did was that he activated a base 0:03:45.080 --> 0:03:48.000 that had been low frequency, that had felt that they 0:03:48.040 --> 0:03:51.040 couldn't connect to a mid Romney Republican party because they 0:03:51.080 --> 0:03:54.280 wanted the red meat of racism. And Donald Trump when 0:03:54.280 --> 0:03:57.040 he brings up ilhan Omar, he's doing that because he 0:03:57.200 --> 0:04:00.720 can't get anything else to get his people, except it's 0:04:00.720 --> 0:04:04.440 a distraction from all of his other problems. And that 0:04:04.600 --> 0:04:07.800 is why it should not be taken seriously. It should 0:04:07.840 --> 0:04:12.360 be dismissed and condemned and move on, agreed, and also 0:04:12.560 --> 0:04:16.919 make every Republican elected defend it because they know it's wrong. 0:04:17.279 --> 0:04:20.279 The Eric Schmidt quickly discussed later in this episode with 0:04:20.440 --> 0:04:23.760 Rick was really really telling because he lost his shit 0:04:23.880 --> 0:04:27.320 that Stephanopoulos asked him more after he tried the normal 0:04:27.360 --> 0:04:29.919 deflection of I haven't seen the tweets. He loses his 0:04:29.960 --> 0:04:32.279 shit on him because they can't believe they're ever being 0:04:32.279 --> 0:04:36.039 held accountable for this, and they're defending the indefensible corruption 0:04:36.160 --> 0:04:36.880 that we see. 0:04:36.640 --> 0:04:38.799 Today and good for Stephanopoulos. 0:04:39.279 --> 0:04:42.919 Agreed, I'll give him a rare W from me. 0:04:43.160 --> 0:04:45.360 No, he's done a lot of he's done. 0:04:45.480 --> 0:04:48.000 I agree, Yeah, he's done a lot of good. There's 0:04:48.279 --> 0:04:49.400 some bones to pick though. 0:04:49.600 --> 0:04:50.880 Yeah, well you're wrong. 0:04:51.160 --> 0:04:54.520 The Education Department has picked up one of our favorite patterns, 0:04:54.560 --> 0:04:58.800 molly having to rehire workers that these fucking idiots threw 0:04:58.839 --> 0:05:02.720 away because they thought that the government most so bloated 0:05:02.800 --> 0:05:05.479 and then they realized, fuck, we need this to do things. 0:05:06.080 --> 0:05:11.040 Yeah, so look this is again, this keeps happening, This 0:05:11.279 --> 0:05:14.799 keeps happening. Republicans are like, what does the federal government 0:05:14.880 --> 0:05:19.760 do anyway, let's disassemble it, you morons. You can't do 0:05:19.920 --> 0:05:23.560 it this way. The federal government is not moral lago. 0:05:23.800 --> 0:05:27.520 It's actually not nearly as big as you think it is, 0:05:27.880 --> 0:05:31.120 and it does a lot of services. So the Education 0:05:31.240 --> 0:05:35.680 Department has hundreds of fire employees to return temporarily. This 0:05:35.760 --> 0:05:39.440 is just like doge. This is just like when they 0:05:39.480 --> 0:05:43.080 fire the people who are, you know, guarding the nukes 0:05:43.480 --> 0:05:45.600 and then they had to rehire them. This is just 0:05:45.600 --> 0:05:52.279 what keeps fucking happening. It is absolutely so beyond stupid, 0:05:52.640 --> 0:05:57.280 and it's like they just keep solving problems they themselves created. 0:05:57.520 --> 0:05:59.240 Yep, So what are the. 0:05:59.120 --> 0:06:02.240 More interesting that the Democrats are going to get too, 0:06:02.320 --> 0:06:07.680 particularly a senator who refused to endorse Zoramumdani and a 0:06:07.720 --> 0:06:10.719 Congressman who was reluctant to They're really going after Trump 0:06:10.720 --> 0:06:14.240 for affordability, and now we see the GOP congressmen are 0:06:14.279 --> 0:06:16.480 cowering from it because they know it's going to work. 0:06:16.680 --> 0:06:20.279 Trump said this week that affordability was a con job. 0:06:20.320 --> 0:06:23.159 That he said that on Wednesday, it's a con job. 0:06:23.480 --> 0:06:26.880 What I think he meant was he can't do anything 0:06:26.920 --> 0:06:29.560 about inflation. That's what I'm pretty sure he meant. He 0:06:29.600 --> 0:06:32.679 said affordability is a con job. They have a real 0:06:32.839 --> 0:06:38.240 problem when it comes to affordability, because inflation is a problem. 0:06:38.839 --> 0:06:42.440 Republicans are going to be saddled with it. Blaming the 0:06:42.480 --> 0:06:46.960 president for the economy is what people do. It's a 0:06:47.160 --> 0:06:51.440 non partisan issue. I don't so I don't know what 0:06:51.560 --> 0:06:54.320 Trump is thinking. They have And by the way, if 0:06:54.320 --> 0:06:58.839 you're worried about inflation, just wait because the ACA tax 0:06:58.920 --> 0:07:02.480 credits are expired and that means everyone tells insurance is 0:07:02.520 --> 0:07:06.960 about to get way more expensive. And Trump is a 0:07:07.080 --> 0:07:10.160 real fucking problem here. I don't think there's an easy 0:07:10.200 --> 0:07:13.400 solve here. And by the way, again, it's this problem, 0:07:13.440 --> 0:07:18.760 which is that Republicans need to separate themselves from Trump 0:07:19.160 --> 0:07:22.920 while still not making Trump mad. And like you know, 0:07:23.120 --> 0:07:26.600 that was hard enough to do with someone like Joe Biden, 0:07:26.680 --> 0:07:31.240 who supposedly may have given some permission, though I don't 0:07:31.320 --> 0:07:34.240 necessarily believe that that you could separate yourself, but like 0:07:34.560 --> 0:07:37.400 Trump will not do that because Trump is a child. 0:07:37.600 --> 0:07:39.880 So I think that's going to be a real problem 0:07:39.920 --> 0:07:50.200 for Republicans. Over at our YouTube channel, we have some 0:07:50.280 --> 0:07:53.440 really exciting stuff. Jesse and I have made a documentary. 0:07:53.720 --> 0:07:57.680 It's called Project twenty twenty nine, A Reimagining. It's a 0:07:57.720 --> 0:08:03.680 series about how demic can deliver popular policies when they 0:08:03.720 --> 0:08:07.360 regain power. The first episode is up now. It's the 0:08:07.400 --> 0:08:10.200 first part of the series, and we're going to examine 0:08:10.240 --> 0:08:14.960 what went wrong with some of the Biden administration's approach 0:08:15.080 --> 0:08:20.320 to policies that may have prevented Democrats from being able 0:08:20.440 --> 0:08:27.600 to deliver the broad anti corruption legislation that needed to happen, 0:08:28.120 --> 0:08:31.920 and by the way, that would have prevented some of 0:08:32.160 --> 0:08:35.360 the corruption we're seeing right now. The first episode dives 0:08:35.440 --> 0:08:39.720 deep into the first step of fixing American politics. It 0:08:39.760 --> 0:08:44.400 may sound unsexy, but it's a big, important issue, and 0:08:44.440 --> 0:08:49.239 that big subject is campaign finance reform. For this episode, 0:08:49.320 --> 0:08:52.840 we talk to some of the smartest people we know, 0:08:53.360 --> 0:09:00.560 professors and academics, people like Lawrence Lessig, Tiffany Muller, Michael Waldman, 0:09:01.080 --> 0:09:05.400 and Tom Moore. Republicans were prepared for when they got 0:09:05.720 --> 0:09:11.120 the levers of power. Democrats need that same kind of preparation. 0:09:11.760 --> 0:09:14.720 That's why we need to start the conversation on how 0:09:14.960 --> 0:09:18.320 Democrats can do the same thing. So please head over 0:09:18.640 --> 0:09:23.240 to our YouTube channel and search Molly Jong Fast Project 0:09:23.320 --> 0:09:27.679 twenty twenty nine or go to the Fast Politics YouTube 0:09:27.760 --> 0:09:30.960 channel page and you'll find it there and help us 0:09:31.120 --> 0:09:36.880 spread the word and stay tuned for more episodes. Rick 0:09:36.920 --> 0:09:39.240 Wilson is the founder of Lincoln Project and the host 0:09:39.280 --> 0:09:40.280 of the Enemy's List. 0:09:40.600 --> 0:09:44.560 Rick Wilson Molli Jong Fast with your cute pets in hand. 0:09:45.040 --> 0:09:47.640 I have a little hairless dog on my lap, and 0:09:47.720 --> 0:09:52.320 we're here to talk about how things are going. And 0:09:52.360 --> 0:09:57.760 in case you're wondering, this week, Donald Trump pardoned a Democrat. 0:09:58.080 --> 0:10:05.480 A Democrat Congressman Henry Kuehlar yep of the Rio Grande 0:10:05.559 --> 0:10:09.760 Valley and R Plus. He's like a mansion character, right, 0:10:09.800 --> 0:10:13.160 a Joe Manchin. He's from a district that a Democrat 0:10:13.160 --> 0:10:18.040 would not win. Correct he pardoned him. Who knows why? 0:10:18.320 --> 0:10:24.560 Maybe because he just loves freedom or he considers white 0:10:24.600 --> 0:10:27.280 collar crimes to not actually be crimes. That's my theory. 0:10:27.880 --> 0:10:30.080 That is, I think that theory's got a lot of weight. 0:10:30.240 --> 0:10:35.440 He pardons him. Quahlar then immediately registers to run again 0:10:35.679 --> 0:10:41.360 as a Democrat. Chef's kiss, Baby, Chef's kiss. 0:10:41.600 --> 0:10:43.440 You know, this is one of the things, Molly that 0:10:43.480 --> 0:10:48.640 I find fascinating about pardon palooza. So we're killing people 0:10:48.960 --> 0:10:51.680 in speed boats down in Verslila and in the Pacific. 0:10:52.080 --> 0:10:55.160 That's because they might have drugs. So they also might 0:10:55.200 --> 0:10:55.800 have fished. 0:10:56.120 --> 0:10:58.959 They hypothetically might have conceivably had drugs, but they weren't 0:10:58.960 --> 0:11:01.840 going to the US. They were going to Surinam. But 0:11:02.160 --> 0:11:03.520 you know, we might kill him anyway. 0:11:03.600 --> 0:11:06.960 We plan got a distretch from the Ebstein files. 0:11:07.400 --> 0:11:11.240 Yep, we pardon the president of Honduras, who is serving 0:11:11.400 --> 0:11:15.720 federal time for engaging in massive cocaine smuggling and ventnol 0:11:15.760 --> 0:11:20.040 smuggling into America because Roger Stone, that degenerate fop weirdo 0:11:20.559 --> 0:11:24.000 miracle of phrenology, takes Trump a letter that he clearly 0:11:24.040 --> 0:11:28.280 wrote like Imperial Lord Trump, I love the he Pardons 0:11:28.360 --> 0:11:30.840 Chuair for whatever reason. I don't know if somebody said, hey, 0:11:30.880 --> 0:11:33.120 maybe he'll switch or maybe we've got a deal, and 0:11:33.160 --> 0:11:35.719 then turned around and screwed them. But if he did 0:11:35.760 --> 0:11:38.040 turn around and screw them, I salute him for that, 0:11:38.679 --> 0:11:42.400 honestly mad props game nos game brother. 0:11:42.840 --> 0:11:45.520 Well you know who doesn't salute him me? Do you 0:11:45.559 --> 0:11:48.160 know who is not happy with this development? 0:11:48.520 --> 0:11:49.440 Donald John Trump? 0:11:49.520 --> 0:11:53.160 He had a truth today which was then, you know 0:11:53.240 --> 0:11:57.600 it's an important truth because Rapid Response forty seven then 0:11:57.679 --> 0:11:59.640 tweeted it so we could happen. 0:12:00.160 --> 0:12:05.440 Rapid Response forty seven in cell weirdo, who's taking doing 0:12:05.480 --> 0:12:08.360 that from curating his anime doll collection. 0:12:09.080 --> 0:12:12.120 He is real mad. And there are a lot of 0:12:12.360 --> 0:12:16.760 words that are capitalized in this very long capitalized but 0:12:17.440 --> 0:12:21.600 I'm going to read you sort of the the highlights. 0:12:22.160 --> 0:12:26.160 Will you were treated so badly? Explanation point. I signed 0:12:26.160 --> 0:12:28.199 the papers and said to the people in the Oval 0:12:28.240 --> 0:12:32.840 office that I did a very good job saving things God, 0:12:33.000 --> 0:12:36.560 was he happy that day? Then it happened explanation point. 0:12:36.600 --> 0:12:40.520 Explanation point. Only a short time after signing the pardon, 0:12:40.760 --> 0:12:45.360 Congressman Henrykiler announced that he will be running for Congress. 0:12:45.360 --> 0:12:48.040 He puts running in quotes in the great State of 0:12:48.120 --> 0:12:50.800 Texas as a Democrat. 0:12:52.400 --> 0:12:53.320 Donald's mad. 0:12:53.480 --> 0:12:58.199 Now, such a lack of loyalty. Explanation point. Oh well, 0:12:58.400 --> 0:13:02.440 next time, no more, mister night Sky. Explanation point. And 0:13:02.480 --> 0:13:04.800 it's signed President Donald J. Trump. 0:13:05.160 --> 0:13:06.640 No, thank you for your attention to this matter. 0:13:06.800 --> 0:13:07.840 That would have been it official. 0:13:08.679 --> 0:13:12.000 I do enjoy a thank you for your attention to 0:13:12.040 --> 0:13:15.400 this matter. But I think that the point here is 0:13:15.440 --> 0:13:17.680 that my man is a mobster. 0:13:18.080 --> 0:13:22.200 And so I guess the correct analysis of Donald Trump 0:13:22.280 --> 0:13:25.120 is that he is a crime boss. Yeah, there's no 0:13:25.360 --> 0:13:30.200 alternate analysis of it. There's no there's no secondary analysis 0:13:30.240 --> 0:13:33.560 of it. Everything he does is motivated by graft and 0:13:33.640 --> 0:13:36.640 greed and scamming and making money. 0:13:36.880 --> 0:13:39.880 It's quid pro it's quid pro. 0:13:39.880 --> 0:13:41.920 Do, it's you know, the whole thing is the guy 0:13:42.000 --> 0:13:45.800 is just absolutely yo. Quid pro yo works too, But 0:13:45.840 --> 0:13:49.520 the whole thing is just absolutely flagrantly corrupt at every turn. 0:13:50.200 --> 0:13:54.200 And there's nothing about this raft of pardons he's been 0:13:54.240 --> 0:13:58.320 doing that in any way has anything to do with justice. 0:13:58.520 --> 0:14:02.320 They're all criminals. I mean, he's partnering all these cyber 0:14:02.400 --> 0:14:05.199 bros who were literally in business with his sons. 0:14:05.480 --> 0:14:09.120 There's a graph that shows that Donald Trump has partnered 0:14:09.160 --> 0:14:13.760 more than a thousand people. This is like about ten times. 0:14:13.880 --> 0:14:16.000 Well, it's like sixteen hundred if you count. 0:14:16.920 --> 0:14:20.720 Yeah, so if you count to January, sixth rioters, which 0:14:20.800 --> 0:14:23.600 is hundreds of people that he also partned. I think 0:14:23.640 --> 0:14:26.120 there are a number of important reasons to talk about 0:14:26.120 --> 0:14:30.840 pardon Beluza, but the biggest of which is that he 0:14:31.240 --> 0:14:35.000 is clearly running some kind of situation here where he's 0:14:35.000 --> 0:14:35.840 partning people. 0:14:36.480 --> 0:14:38.440 Listen, they were doing it in the last in the 0:14:38.520 --> 0:14:41.720 end of the last administration into the last Trump administration, 0:14:42.080 --> 0:14:44.600 where Matt Slapp and Rogerstone are all these other guys 0:14:44.600 --> 0:14:47.400 and Gates were going to Trump and getting these pardons 0:14:47.400 --> 0:14:49.760 for people, and there was reporting at the time that 0:14:49.840 --> 0:14:54.040 cash was changing hands, and I nothing would surprise me 0:14:54.160 --> 0:14:57.080 less than this being a pay to play. 0:14:57.360 --> 0:14:59.880 Jesse has brought up a really important point, and then 0:15:00.040 --> 0:15:03.560 I want to talk about the problem Republicans find themselves 0:15:03.640 --> 0:15:06.800 in which I think you'll appreciate. Jesse has a quote 0:15:06.800 --> 0:15:11.000 from George Stefanopolos. He is interviewing Eric Schmidt. You may 0:15:11.080 --> 0:15:16.880 remember Eric Schmidt. He is the senator from Missourra, Missura. Yep, 0:15:17.080 --> 0:15:20.560 he says Stephanoppolos, and I think this is really the 0:15:20.640 --> 0:15:24.160 thing that everyone needs to ask Republican senators. And I 0:15:24.200 --> 0:15:25.880 think it gets me to another thing I want to 0:15:25.880 --> 0:15:28.480 talk about, which is Stephanoppolos says, do you support this 0:15:28.600 --> 0:15:33.840 pardon of the former Hondurian Hondoran president? And the senator says, 0:15:33.840 --> 0:15:34.920 I'm not familiar. 0:15:35.320 --> 0:15:37.400 This is the twenty twenty five equivalent of I didn't 0:15:37.400 --> 0:15:39.640 read the tweet. Remember in the first administration, that was 0:15:39.680 --> 0:15:42.960 always well, I didn't see the tweet. Whenever Trump would 0:15:43.000 --> 0:15:45.560 say something horrible or racist or insane, I didn't see 0:15:45.560 --> 0:15:48.400 the tweet. Now it's I'm not familiar with the details 0:15:48.400 --> 0:15:52.000 of that case. The Senate in particular has been an 0:15:52.040 --> 0:15:55.000 embarrassment about holding Trump to account because they have a 0:15:55.040 --> 0:15:57.960 relatively greater amount of political power to do so. The 0:15:58.040 --> 0:15:59.920 House is just, you know, the House is what it is. 0:16:00.320 --> 0:16:02.960 I do find it kind of amazing that even somebody 0:16:03.320 --> 0:16:06.600 as dull witted as Eric Schmidt thinks he can get 0:16:06.600 --> 0:16:10.880 away and fool people that this is somehow not missed 0:16:10.880 --> 0:16:14.800 it lavish corruption that he's completely aware about. 0:16:15.280 --> 0:16:18.720 Now, I'm going to take you somewhere with this because 0:16:18.720 --> 0:16:22.760 I think it's really important going on an event. We're 0:16:22.760 --> 0:16:26.200 going on an Inventor. We see Republicans unable to separate 0:16:26.240 --> 0:16:31.840 themselves from Trump because they're scared of Trump. But as 0:16:31.880 --> 0:16:35.320 Trump gets to be more and more kryptonite, they find 0:16:35.360 --> 0:16:38.880 themselves in a problem. And I'd love you to talk 0:16:38.920 --> 0:16:41.440 about that because, like I feel like we see people 0:16:41.560 --> 0:16:47.160 illustrate this. Like here's Stephonic fighting with Mike Johnson, obviously 0:16:47.320 --> 0:16:50.560 trying to show that she's like could be a normal 0:16:50.640 --> 0:16:54.880 bluestate Republican. Right, talk us through what's happening here. 0:16:55.040 --> 0:16:59.120 Look to bifurcate that question. Let me do at least 0:16:59.120 --> 0:17:02.200 really quickly. She is going to desperately try to be again. 0:17:02.280 --> 0:17:04.840 She's going to try to reclaim her normy kred. Watch 0:17:04.880 --> 0:17:07.040 what happens. She'll be all of a sudden back like oh, 0:17:07.080 --> 0:17:09.520 I was at the Harvard Institute of Politics. I have 0:17:09.760 --> 0:17:12.199 mem Romney, I work for George Book. You watch what 0:17:12.240 --> 0:17:15.520 she does. It will not work. Kathy Hockel may not 0:17:15.560 --> 0:17:18.840 be a the you know, America's favorite governor or New 0:17:18.920 --> 0:17:22.359 York's favorite governor. But if it's twice beeing Kathy Hockel 0:17:22.840 --> 0:17:26.840 and elis staphonic. The Gretchen Wieners of American politics, at 0:17:26.880 --> 0:17:29.000 least define is going to get blown out. She cannot 0:17:29.040 --> 0:17:32.439 move to the center. There's no getting there. The video 0:17:32.520 --> 0:17:35.240 of her talking about Trump over and over and over 0:17:35.280 --> 0:17:39.280 and over again, it's the quotes that launched ten thousand ads. 0:17:40.480 --> 0:17:43.199 As for the rest of these guys, there was a 0:17:43.200 --> 0:17:45.919 stat out the other day about the twenty six districts 0:17:45.920 --> 0:17:49.400 where they are the most vulnerable Republicans and of those 0:17:49.440 --> 0:17:51.680 twenty six, twenty one of them vote with Trump one 0:17:51.760 --> 0:17:55.840 hundred percent of the time. That is psychotic, that is 0:17:55.920 --> 0:17:59.800 not that doesn't happen. Ever, Barack Obama didn't have Democrats 0:17:59.840 --> 0:18:02.280 vot with him one hundred percent of the time. Well, 0:18:02.280 --> 0:18:04.960 Clinton didn't have Democrats voting with him shit sixty percent 0:18:04.960 --> 0:18:07.480 of the time. This is insane. It is not a 0:18:07.560 --> 0:18:10.160 sign of a strong party. It's a sign of a brittle, 0:18:10.200 --> 0:18:14.160 weak party that is so afraid of losing a primary. 0:18:14.200 --> 0:18:17.280 Because Trump has a mean tweet about them, that they're 0:18:17.320 --> 0:18:20.000 going to strap themselves to the sky and they're going 0:18:20.040 --> 0:18:23.640 to ride the burning wreckage all the way down. They 0:18:23.680 --> 0:18:27.840 can't get away from him. And if they break from him, remember. 0:18:27.960 --> 0:18:28.639 Take him down. 0:18:28.720 --> 0:18:31.919 There's nothing Trump hates more. Trump doesn't even hate Democrats. 0:18:32.000 --> 0:18:34.560 There's nothing he hates more than a Republican who doesn't 0:18:34.600 --> 0:18:35.399 obey him. 0:18:35.600 --> 0:18:39.480 Is that true? Rick, tell me more? No, fail, you're 0:18:39.480 --> 0:18:41.240 speaking from personal experience here. 0:18:41.720 --> 0:18:44.119 I am, indeed, but this is a long running pattern 0:18:44.160 --> 0:18:50.000 with Trump. He has more hostility toward apostate Republicans or 0:18:50.040 --> 0:18:52.919 anyone who would dream of opposing him from his own party, 0:18:53.280 --> 0:18:55.359 than he does for the most liberal Democrats. You know, 0:18:55.440 --> 0:18:59.520 In fact, you saw this with the mondami on Donnie Trump, 0:18:59.680 --> 0:19:03.280 you know, sat there feeling weirdly conflicted about Mondamie in 0:19:03.320 --> 0:19:08.040 the Oval office because he likes game, game, knows game. 0:19:08.359 --> 0:19:12.280 But he with Republicans. His favorite hobby is to humiliate 0:19:12.280 --> 0:19:15.600 the ones that kiss his ass and then deviate even 0:19:15.640 --> 0:19:18.200 in the slightest little bit. That's why he's going after, 0:19:18.560 --> 0:19:21.240 you know, not only the mtgs, but he'll start going 0:19:21.240 --> 0:19:23.679 after these other people and their consultants. I know this 0:19:23.720 --> 0:19:26.000 for a fact. I spoke to a Republican polster who 0:19:26.000 --> 0:19:29.520 handle's House and Senate and governor's races about ten days 0:19:29.520 --> 0:19:32.960 ago now most just after Thanksgiving, so call it ten 0:19:33.000 --> 0:19:36.000 days ago, who told me, Yeah, we're trying to find 0:19:36.040 --> 0:19:39.640 a way. We're trying to find something to split off 0:19:39.640 --> 0:19:42.440 on that they won't kill us over. And it's really hard. 0:19:42.600 --> 0:19:47.320 And here's the problem is as Trump does less and less, well, 0:19:47.760 --> 0:19:51.760 like you need him to turn out low frequency voters 0:19:52.359 --> 0:19:54.560 because he's alienating the indies. 0:19:54.720 --> 0:20:00.879 Right, the Independents are now basically fifty to twenty against Trump. 0:20:01.000 --> 0:20:02.560 So that's insane, by the. 0:20:02.480 --> 0:20:05.679 Way, right, So you're alienating the indies. Dems are not 0:20:05.720 --> 0:20:09.560 going to vote for you. You're splitting apart Republicans and 0:20:09.600 --> 0:20:11.520 that See, that's one of the other things I want 0:20:11.560 --> 0:20:13.920 to talk about because I think the reason Donald Trump 0:20:14.000 --> 0:20:17.080 went after ilhan Omar this weekend that was another thing 0:20:17.119 --> 0:20:21.879 you did, was because he cannot get any traction on anything, 0:20:22.400 --> 0:20:23.680 so he things back to the base. 0:20:23.760 --> 0:20:27.000 I thing it's working for him, Molly nothing, I mean 0:20:27.119 --> 0:20:31.480 everything he has tried in the last I mean real talk, 0:20:31.640 --> 0:20:36.119 since Epstein, since since since Pam Bondi gave that statement, 0:20:36.160 --> 0:20:38.240 we're not going to release anything, and there's no there 0:20:38.280 --> 0:20:41.520 there blah blah blah. Nothing Trump has done since that 0:20:41.560 --> 0:20:45.120 point has lasted more than about three or four days. Now. 0:20:45.160 --> 0:20:47.480 Sometimes he'll get a story tear down the White House 0:20:47.560 --> 0:20:51.200 East Wing the last three or four days. Sometimes you'll 0:20:51.200 --> 0:20:54.000 get a story like the like the last week on 0:20:54.119 --> 0:20:56.399 Ukraine stuff, three or four days, two or three days. 0:20:56.560 --> 0:20:59.399 But nothing changes the subject forever. Like it used to 0:21:00.560 --> 0:21:03.920 the center of gravity with Trump. He used to blow 0:21:04.000 --> 0:21:07.199 up the media cycle and then the next center of 0:21:07.240 --> 0:21:09.760 gravity was whatever the next media cycle was for him, 0:21:09.800 --> 0:21:12.239 whatever he blew up next. But now he blows up 0:21:12.280 --> 0:21:14.359 the media cycle. Then it's back to Epstein. 0:21:14.960 --> 0:21:15.160 Right. 0:21:15.640 --> 0:21:18.480 They used to say he was the assignment editor. Remember that, 0:21:18.680 --> 0:21:20.560 Oh yeah, for sure, for sure. 0:21:21.080 --> 0:21:23.639 And look, I do think to get back to these 0:21:23.680 --> 0:21:28.480 Republican candidates, all of them know what's happening. Their consultants 0:21:28.520 --> 0:21:32.760 right now are are looking for the timing of when 0:21:32.760 --> 0:21:35.680 they break with Trump and hoping it won't kill off 0:21:35.720 --> 0:21:38.520 turnout when they break with Trump. And so we're going 0:21:38.560 --> 0:21:40.359 to see a lot of these guys after their primaries 0:21:40.359 --> 0:21:44.080 are over in the spring or early summer, say, man, 0:21:44.119 --> 0:21:46.000 I really wish the president would do something different on 0:21:46.040 --> 0:21:49.280 tariffs because they won't be murdered at that point. But 0:21:49.320 --> 0:21:50.960 it's going to be too late. 0:21:51.119 --> 0:21:53.840 It's a Tom Tillis thing, right. We see Tom Tilli's 0:21:53.880 --> 0:21:56.919 breaking with Trump because he's not running again. We see, 0:21:57.240 --> 0:21:59.720 you know. But I want to go to why we 0:21:59.760 --> 0:22:01.919 can keep going back to Epstein, because I have a 0:22:02.000 --> 0:22:04.280 theory and I want to talk to you about it. 0:22:04.920 --> 0:22:07.719 The reason that we keep going back to Epstein is 0:22:07.760 --> 0:22:13.160 because the Democrat, the ranking member of Oversight, keeps releasing 0:22:13.359 --> 0:22:21.280 stuff Epstein, and he keeps releasing stuff about Epstein because 0:22:21.280 --> 0:22:24.440 he's a young guy, right, He's a young, competent guy. 0:22:24.560 --> 0:22:27.479 His name is Robert Garcia. I talk about him a lot. 0:22:27.840 --> 0:22:30.439 I talk about oversight a lot because when you're not 0:22:30.600 --> 0:22:33.600 in power, you have very few things you can do. 0:22:33.960 --> 0:22:36.560 And one of the very few things that Democrats can 0:22:36.600 --> 0:22:42.119 do right now is message Epstein. Oversight has this power 0:22:42.160 --> 0:22:46.240 to subpoena. They subpoena the estate. If Jerry Connolly, we're 0:22:46.280 --> 0:22:47.800 still the head of Oversight. 0:22:47.760 --> 0:22:49.560 Don't even start, it would be a disaster. 0:22:50.200 --> 0:22:54.440 He died because Democratic leadership was scared to tell him 0:22:54.480 --> 0:22:57.639 he couldn't have the job, so they gave him the job, 0:22:57.760 --> 0:23:01.120 even though he was sick and he was having treatment 0:23:01.240 --> 0:23:04.800 for cancer and was in his late seventies. He died 0:23:04.840 --> 0:23:06.000 and Garcia's at the job. 0:23:06.280 --> 0:23:09.720 This is the classic crisis management problem. 0:23:09.880 --> 0:23:10.040 You know. 0:23:10.040 --> 0:23:14.480 I've helped corporate clients, political clients for thirty years deal 0:23:14.520 --> 0:23:17.240 with crises, and when you're in it on your own, 0:23:17.280 --> 0:23:19.440 it's never as easy as it looks on the outside. 0:23:19.440 --> 0:23:22.440 But there are rules every time in a crisis management situation. 0:23:22.720 --> 0:23:25.040 Get the truth out, no matter how much it hurts 0:23:25.040 --> 0:23:29.159 in the short term. Drip drip, drip is always worse 0:23:29.200 --> 0:23:32.560 for you in the end than one big reveal. The 0:23:32.600 --> 0:23:35.159 second part of it is go out and say what 0:23:35.200 --> 0:23:37.320 you're going to do to reform yourself and your process 0:23:37.359 --> 0:23:40.480 and your company. Trump can't release this stuff for a 0:23:40.520 --> 0:23:43.320 host of reasons, both about himself and about some of 0:23:43.359 --> 0:23:46.200 his donors, and about people he likes, and about people in. 0:23:46.160 --> 0:23:46.919 The corporate world. 0:23:47.280 --> 0:23:51.040 And he can't reform himself. He doesn't care about human trafficking. 0:23:51.040 --> 0:23:53.720 He doesn't care to happen to the victims of Epstein 0:23:53.840 --> 0:23:57.639 and Maxwell. And the final part of any crisis like 0:23:57.680 --> 0:24:00.480 this is you have to learn from You have to 0:24:00.520 --> 0:24:02.480 behave in a different way in the future. You can't 0:24:02.520 --> 0:24:04.399 just say we're going to reform in this way. You 0:24:04.400 --> 0:24:06.159 have to show, you have to walk the walk, and 0:24:06.200 --> 0:24:10.960 he can never do that. He is He is an old, sick, 0:24:11.280 --> 0:24:14.520 cruel guy with a lifelong history of abusing women in 0:24:14.640 --> 0:24:17.560 various capacities and manners, much of which we know about 0:24:17.560 --> 0:24:19.480 from the legal record, much of what you know about 0:24:19.520 --> 0:24:22.320 from the from the divorce record, from the social record, 0:24:22.560 --> 0:24:27.080 from this, from from his long behavioral pattern. He even 0:24:27.119 --> 0:24:30.440 if he was still healthy, he couldn't change. And now 0:24:31.560 --> 0:24:34.160 they're stuck with him, and they're stuck with this. Republicans 0:24:34.240 --> 0:24:35.320 own this crisis. 0:24:36.040 --> 0:24:40.200 So Marjorie Taylor Green says that she talks to Donald Trump, 0:24:40.280 --> 0:24:43.119 and Donald Trump says, you don't want the Epstein files 0:24:43.240 --> 0:24:46.080 released because it's going to hurt a lot of people 0:24:46.480 --> 0:24:50.200 who cares, but also who he's going too hard. 0:24:50.840 --> 0:24:51.040 Yeah. 0:24:51.080 --> 0:24:53.879 There, answer is it's going to hurt people that Trump 0:24:54.240 --> 0:24:57.720 has political and financial relationships with. We know some of 0:24:57.720 --> 0:25:00.760 the tick tick tick on. This will end up implicating 0:25:00.800 --> 0:25:04.960 people that are in business and politics and media, and 0:25:05.800 --> 0:25:08.600 it's going to burn some people to the ground that 0:25:08.640 --> 0:25:15.280 he likes. It's going to hurt him, right, I mean criminal, Well, 0:25:15.359 --> 0:25:18.560 probably a more criminal exposure than he does, right for sure. 0:25:18.720 --> 0:25:21.200 And they're Republican donors and some of them may even 0:25:21.240 --> 0:25:25.600 be Democratic donors. And honestly, who cares because getting after 0:25:26.280 --> 0:25:30.840 people who do SAZ child sex trafficking is a nonpartisan activity. 0:25:30.880 --> 0:25:34.199 Yeah, and listen, I will say this, I have you know, 0:25:34.280 --> 0:25:36.840 I'm I'm when when Democrats screw up, I will tell 0:25:36.840 --> 0:25:39.000 them they're screwing up. But they have been very good 0:25:39.040 --> 0:25:41.960 about this about saying let the chips fall where they may, 0:25:42.280 --> 0:25:45.560 let it roll. I don't see Democrats out there saying, well, 0:25:45.600 --> 0:25:48.080 we want to we don't want to hurt anybody on arm. 0:25:48.520 --> 0:25:51.440 They don't they're doing The Democrats are doing the correct 0:25:51.480 --> 0:25:55.000 thing here by saying fuck it if Bill Clinton's in 0:25:55.040 --> 0:25:58.720 the file, Bill Clinton's in the file, Oh well yeah, 0:25:58.760 --> 0:26:02.360 And that's the right way to approach it. But Trump 0:26:02.520 --> 0:26:05.280 clearly is picking and choosing. Now, I want to ask 0:26:05.320 --> 0:26:07.200 you a question because I had somebody that they asked 0:26:07.200 --> 0:26:08.640 me a friend of mine. I said to me, he goes, 0:26:08.800 --> 0:26:11.000 do you think Trump is going through this material and 0:26:11.040 --> 0:26:12.800 going to some of these corporate people that are in 0:26:12.840 --> 0:26:14.600 there and basically blackmailing them? 0:26:14.800 --> 0:26:15.120 I don't. 0:26:16.320 --> 0:26:17.679 It really shocked me. 0:26:17.720 --> 0:26:19.840 I don't have any evidence of that, but I wanted 0:26:19.840 --> 0:26:21.760 to get your thought on that, because, I mean, if 0:26:21.800 --> 0:26:24.080 he had the files in front of him, Trump. 0:26:23.840 --> 0:26:28.680 Is never doing three dimensional chess no, so it's hard 0:26:28.720 --> 0:26:32.040 for me to imagine that he's doing something like that, Like, sure, 0:26:32.080 --> 0:26:36.080 would that make sense? Absolutely? Do I think he's doing it? 0:26:36.119 --> 0:26:39.320 Probably not. I just think he's not that organized. I 0:26:39.359 --> 0:26:42.800 think like largely what this crew does is try to 0:26:43.400 --> 0:26:47.960 is just like react to problems, right. I don't you know, like, 0:26:48.320 --> 0:26:51.320 do I think he's not firing people because it was 0:26:51.400 --> 0:26:54.520 why he had so many leaks the first time around? Yes? 0:26:55.200 --> 0:26:58.240 Do I think he liked gave Heggs at that job 0:26:58.320 --> 0:27:00.680 because he liked the way he looked on television? And yes, 0:27:01.480 --> 0:27:05.400 do I think that E's Like No, I think they 0:27:05.520 --> 0:27:07.560 you know, they have it somewhere. They're like, we're never 0:27:07.600 --> 0:27:10.160 releasing it. I mean, look, I have a very smart 0:27:10.280 --> 0:27:12.800 straight journalist friend who said they're gonna just release and 0:27:12.840 --> 0:27:15.919 release and release, but only stuff on Democrats, right, But 0:27:16.000 --> 0:27:18.040 I don't actually think so. I think they're just going 0:27:18.119 --> 0:27:19.840 to try not to release any of it for as 0:27:19.920 --> 0:27:20.640 long as they can. 0:27:21.520 --> 0:27:24.359 I think I think this the stonewall tactic is going 0:27:24.400 --> 0:27:27.720 to last through the election, then they're gonna and I. 0:27:27.640 --> 0:27:30.159 Think they're just gonna be like sue Us. I just 0:27:30.200 --> 0:27:32.679 think they're gonna be like sue Us, fuck you. Like 0:27:32.920 --> 0:27:36.399 that's the thing. It's like Trump is not putin. There's 0:27:36.600 --> 0:27:39.640 like a temptation. Like I was thinking about this because 0:27:39.680 --> 0:27:43.520 I was thinking, like when they went after Komi, I 0:27:43.720 --> 0:27:47.520 was thinking, like they're gonna just create some crimes, like 0:27:47.600 --> 0:27:50.560 the way Russia does. You know, they're gonna like put 0:27:50.600 --> 0:27:52.800 something on his hard drive and be like you did this. 0:27:53.040 --> 0:27:56.479 They're not smart like that whatever. For whatever reason, they're not, 0:27:56.840 --> 0:27:58.639 so they don't do stuff like that. They just are like, 0:27:58.680 --> 0:28:01.000 we're gonna go after him for long to the FBI 0:28:01.359 --> 0:28:04.000 because he said because of Eli and it's like such 0:28:04.040 --> 0:28:07.520 a convoluted thing that you can't so so I don't 0:28:07.560 --> 0:28:09.679 think that. And I mean, like a great example is 0:28:09.760 --> 0:28:12.359 last week when they were trying to get this indictment 0:28:12.480 --> 0:28:14.720 and they just couldn't get the indictment on Tiss James 0:28:14.760 --> 0:28:17.240 because they just didn't have anything and they kept trying. 0:28:17.720 --> 0:28:19.880 You know, they're just not so good. I mean, thank god, 0:28:19.960 --> 0:28:20.800 they're not so good at that. 0:28:20.880 --> 0:28:22.199 I was just gonna say that we should all be 0:28:22.240 --> 0:28:25.040 relieved by that knowledge. And and we you know, and 0:28:25.080 --> 0:28:27.399 if you're on the victim list, if you're if you're 0:28:27.440 --> 0:28:31.120 on the Epstein victim list, those people really want answers, 0:28:31.160 --> 0:28:34.320 they want more stuff, release, they want accountability. And it 0:28:34.440 --> 0:28:38.520 just goes back again. Anytime these people in Trump universe 0:28:38.520 --> 0:28:41.080 say it's all about the children and we're protecting victims 0:28:41.080 --> 0:28:43.160 from traffickers, it's all a lie. 0:28:43.720 --> 0:28:48.920 Yeah, it's it's never ever, ever about the children. 0:28:49.400 --> 0:28:52.120 No, no, it really never is, never is. 0:28:52.440 --> 0:28:53.840 Thank you, Rick Wilson. 0:28:54.200 --> 0:28:56.760 You are as always welcome. I look forward to seeing 0:28:56.760 --> 0:28:59.600 you next week. 0:29:00.360 --> 0:29:03.360 Tim Wu is a former Special Assistant to the President 0:29:03.640 --> 0:29:09.240 and a professor of law at Columbia University and the 0:29:09.280 --> 0:29:14.360 author of the Age of Extraction, How tech platforms conquered 0:29:14.880 --> 0:29:20.080 the economy and threaten our future prosperity. Welcome to past politics, Tim, 0:29:20.120 --> 0:29:21.800 it's great to be here. We're just going to start 0:29:22.200 --> 0:29:23.800 went wrong with the Internet. 0:29:25.040 --> 0:29:25.920 That's a good question. 0:29:26.160 --> 0:29:30.320 Basically, we thought that we could trust everybody that they 0:29:30.320 --> 0:29:32.960 were going to help make everybody rich, and instead they 0:29:32.960 --> 0:29:35.760 made themselves rich. The owners and founders of the big 0:29:35.760 --> 0:29:39.840 platforms I think basically go back the nineties that was 0:29:39.840 --> 0:29:43.080 the promise. It was going to be like this technology 0:29:43.160 --> 0:29:47.560 that empowered everyone, made ever pretty rich, to everything for everybody. 0:29:47.600 --> 0:29:49.720 But it ended up making a very narrow group rich. 0:29:50.000 --> 0:29:53.160 That's all went wrong. A senator who is now very 0:29:53.200 --> 0:29:55.520 mad at me I was once at his book party 0:29:55.560 --> 0:29:59.080 and he said, there is no fact checking on the internet. 0:30:00.160 --> 0:30:01.600 I think that we thought that was going to be 0:30:01.640 --> 0:30:02.120 a good thing. 0:30:02.320 --> 0:30:05.040 I mean a lot of my new book, Age of Extraction, 0:30:05.240 --> 0:30:08.480 is about like the promises of the nineties, early thousands, 0:30:08.480 --> 0:30:09.320 the dream, you know. 0:30:09.440 --> 0:30:10.600 To blame us a little. 0:30:10.400 --> 0:30:14.400 Bit, I think we believe that if everyone could sort 0:30:14.440 --> 0:30:16.160 of have a soapbox and say whatever they wanted all 0:30:16.200 --> 0:30:18.440 the time, that like something beautiful would come out of 0:30:18.440 --> 0:30:21.120 that and pure. And I guess something could come out 0:30:21.160 --> 0:30:23.840 of it, but I'd to have trouble describing it as beautiful, 0:30:23.960 --> 0:30:26.240 pure creature of innocence. 0:30:26.160 --> 0:30:29.440 In any which way. So let's talk about where we 0:30:29.480 --> 0:30:31.760 are right now. Because I used to spend all my 0:30:31.800 --> 0:30:34.760 time worrying about AI, but I've now focused back to 0:30:35.080 --> 0:30:39.600 just worrying about how America survives having no local reporting, 0:30:39.960 --> 0:30:43.200 which is another favorite worry of mine. There is clearly 0:30:43.480 --> 0:30:47.840 a problem. They cannot be solved with substack, cannot be 0:30:47.920 --> 0:30:52.600 solved with X, cannot be solved with blue sky, which 0:30:52.760 --> 0:30:57.400 is reporting is the only way we know to keep 0:30:57.440 --> 0:31:01.479 power and check. We are in a reported catastrophe at 0:31:01.480 --> 0:31:04.120 this moment, right The people who have the money to 0:31:04.240 --> 0:31:07.280 pay for the reporting, you know, the elon must of 0:31:07.280 --> 0:31:11.280 the world, are not very interested in accountability. So is 0:31:11.320 --> 0:31:13.880 this it for the fall of the Roman Empire? I mean, 0:31:13.960 --> 0:31:16.240 is there a way to reverse this trajectory? 0:31:16.600 --> 0:31:17.080 There is? 0:31:17.320 --> 0:31:19.480 I mean, I think there's a tony of money in 0:31:19.520 --> 0:31:21.680 the system. It just goes in all the wrong places, 0:31:21.720 --> 0:31:24.160 if that makes sense. Yeah, Like I was one of 0:31:24.160 --> 0:31:26.520 the chapters in my new book, I talk about this 0:31:26.520 --> 0:31:29.040 one product of Amazon's, you know, the when you search 0:31:29.080 --> 0:31:31.600 on Amazon for like any old product and you get 0:31:31.600 --> 0:31:34.480 those weird sponsored results and like you can't really figure 0:31:34.480 --> 0:31:35.320 out what you really want. 0:31:35.440 --> 0:31:37.000 Well, just from that. 0:31:36.920 --> 0:31:41.680 Little little gimmick, Amazon makes fifty six billion dollars last year, 0:31:42.040 --> 0:31:45.120 which is more than double of all the newspaper income 0:31:45.160 --> 0:31:47.720 of every newspaper on the planet Earth. So in a way, 0:31:47.760 --> 0:31:50.000 you could have like that little thing, or you could 0:31:50.080 --> 0:31:52.920 triple the number of newspapers not in the United States, 0:31:52.920 --> 0:31:56.240 in the world and like somehow we just accepted the 0:31:56.280 --> 0:31:59.520 idea that there's the enormous extraction platforms. They don't pay 0:31:59.520 --> 0:32:02.880 any tax, they don't support anything. They occasionally buy something, 0:32:03.040 --> 0:32:05.160 you know, like Bezos bought the Post, I guess. 0:32:05.000 --> 0:32:08.320 And now he's killing it because foam parties. I mean, 0:32:08.520 --> 0:32:10.680 he just lost interest in democracy. 0:32:11.040 --> 0:32:11.320 Yeah. 0:32:11.480 --> 0:32:13.480 Oh, they just turned it into a platform. I mean, 0:32:13.520 --> 0:32:16.000 at some point there was this whole like, let's not 0:32:16.200 --> 0:32:19.239 be mister nice guy anymore. Let's just like turn this 0:32:19.480 --> 0:32:22.400 newspaper into my mouthpiece, or let's I mean the case. 0:32:22.600 --> 0:32:25.560 I guess Elon Musk was the first with buying Twitter 0:32:25.560 --> 0:32:26.880 and just saying, all right, this is going to be 0:32:26.920 --> 0:32:31.000 my personal thing to make conspiracy theories mainstream. So there's 0:32:31.000 --> 0:32:33.040 a huge amount of money in the system. Like that's 0:32:33.080 --> 0:32:34.880 the craziest thing. We are living in a period where 0:32:34.920 --> 0:32:38.200 there's just tons of money. There's lots of it's all 0:32:38.240 --> 0:32:41.240 all there, but we don't tax it. It like occasionally 0:32:41.280 --> 0:32:43.680 gets given to charity, or it gets used for pet 0:32:43.720 --> 0:32:46.880 projects and to make people really wealthy. So there is 0:32:47.040 --> 0:32:49.120 way more than enough money support any of the kind 0:32:49.200 --> 0:32:52.280 of broadcasting anything you could want. He was a number 0:32:52.280 --> 0:32:54.200 of systems you could choose. You could be more like 0:32:54.240 --> 0:32:57.320 the Germans, like the British, like anything, but somehow we're 0:32:57.360 --> 0:32:57.960 doing none of it. 0:32:58.200 --> 0:32:59.960 So tell me how we fix the Internet. 0:33:00.360 --> 0:33:00.960 Good question. 0:33:01.320 --> 0:33:03.720 I think we have to decide that some of the 0:33:03.720 --> 0:33:06.920 big platforms are like utilities in our time and they 0:33:06.920 --> 0:33:08.000 get to take some money. 0:33:08.000 --> 0:33:08.760 But no more. 0:33:08.960 --> 0:33:11.960 You want to socialize the platforms. No, that was a 0:33:11.960 --> 0:33:14.960 little mean. What I mean is you want some government 0:33:15.000 --> 0:33:18.080 involvement with platform private public kind of situation. 0:33:18.560 --> 0:33:21.280 Well, no, I want to control them like utilities. 0:33:21.600 --> 0:33:25.040 I don't think government would like necessarily run like Amazon 0:33:25.320 --> 0:33:27.680 that well you know, we end up more like post office. 0:33:27.720 --> 0:33:30.240 But I do think they should limit how much Amazon takes, 0:33:30.640 --> 0:33:32.720 like just say like, okay, you get thirty percent, like 0:33:32.920 --> 0:33:35.640 the electric company. We don't say lectric company, Okay, you 0:33:35.680 --> 0:33:37.600 know you have a great product, charge whatever the hell 0:33:37.640 --> 0:33:37.960 you want. 0:33:38.120 --> 0:33:39.280 It's like there's some kind of limits. 0:33:39.320 --> 0:33:41.000 So I think we need to find the places that 0:33:41.040 --> 0:33:44.000 they're like utilities and say that's how much money you get. 0:33:44.200 --> 0:33:45.800 No more so that the rest of us, and I 0:33:45.840 --> 0:33:47.000 think they should pay some taxes. 0:33:47.120 --> 0:33:49.800 Give me this sort of broad sweep of why you 0:33:49.880 --> 0:33:52.120 are the person to make this case? 0:33:52.560 --> 0:33:56.720 Okay, So I worked in Silicon Valley back. I guess 0:33:56.760 --> 0:33:59.560 in the dot com era, that actually created a certain 0:33:59.640 --> 0:34:02.000 level of of distrust of the place. Give me why, 0:34:02.440 --> 0:34:07.160 I think because everyone needs to be a multimillionaire and billionaire, 0:34:07.240 --> 0:34:10.800 even though they also talk about wanting to help the public. 0:34:11.120 --> 0:34:12.960 So in other words, I feel like there was a 0:34:13.000 --> 0:34:16.280 lot of I guess immaturity in the sense of, Okay, 0:34:16.320 --> 0:34:18.560 we need to help everybody do this, run this thing 0:34:18.600 --> 0:34:19.160 like a charity. 0:34:19.160 --> 0:34:20.240 I'm thinking of early Google. 0:34:20.560 --> 0:34:22.120 But we got to make huge amounts of money too, 0:34:22.120 --> 0:34:24.560 and like these things are never going to conflict with 0:34:24.600 --> 0:34:26.840 each other. It's like, you know, twenty year old logic. 0:34:26.920 --> 0:34:28.279 When do you think you can stay up all night 0:34:28.320 --> 0:34:30.400 and then also like be fine the next day. It 0:34:30.400 --> 0:34:31.480 has a lot of that kind of thing. 0:34:31.680 --> 0:34:32.799 They're hypocrites too. 0:34:33.360 --> 0:34:35.200 When I worked, there was a fair amount of just 0:34:35.200 --> 0:34:39.280 straight out lying, which I found difficult about our products. 0:34:39.360 --> 0:34:42.279 It was sort of more normalized and yeah, so that 0:34:42.400 --> 0:34:45.319 made me more cynical. I mean, I think back then 0:34:45.400 --> 0:34:47.279 I was still much more believer than I am now. 0:34:47.440 --> 0:34:49.640 I think it's when they just got big that I 0:34:49.680 --> 0:34:52.360 started to lose faith. I worked there, I've worked in 0:34:52.400 --> 0:34:55.719 the federal government for the Supreme Court. I worked for 0:34:55.760 --> 0:34:59.480 the White House twice, Obama and Biden and Festerer Columbia 0:34:59.680 --> 0:35:02.520 and I have basically tried to reboot the anti monopoly 0:35:02.640 --> 0:35:05.760 movement with like Lena Khan and a few others Jonathan 0:35:05.800 --> 0:35:07.600 Caanter have been trying to reboot anti monopoly. 0:35:07.680 --> 0:35:08.239 That's the other thing. 0:35:08.280 --> 0:35:09.799 I think we got to break these guys up, Like 0:35:09.840 --> 0:35:13.160 it's absurd just to have this level of monopoly extraction 0:35:13.400 --> 0:35:15.280 from a country that claims to be free. 0:35:15.480 --> 0:35:19.239 Well what that look like, because we talk about brigant monopolies, 0:35:19.239 --> 0:35:22.640 but just like nuts and balts, give me an example 0:35:22.719 --> 0:35:24.239 of what that would look like and how you would 0:35:24.280 --> 0:35:24.560 do it. 0:35:24.880 --> 0:35:27.640 I mean a good example. Ship has saled a little 0:35:27.640 --> 0:35:28.000 bit of this. 0:35:28.200 --> 0:35:30.560 But you know the fact that Google not only a 0:35:30.640 --> 0:35:34.120 search engine but then also owns like the browser, the 0:35:34.160 --> 0:35:37.200 main browser also is trying to dominate AI. 0:35:37.680 --> 0:35:37.880 You know. 0:35:37.960 --> 0:35:39.800 I just think it should be a bunch of different units. 0:35:40.080 --> 0:35:44.600 I think Amazon should be a marketplace. It's an amazing marketplace, 0:35:44.640 --> 0:35:47.719 but shouldn't be selling in competition with its own you know, 0:35:47.719 --> 0:35:50.640 its own sellers. So you would sort of ban Amazon 0:35:50.840 --> 0:35:54.239 Amazon sales, Facebook, you would spin off WhatsApp and Instagram 0:35:54.440 --> 0:35:55.640 and make those separate companies. 0:35:55.680 --> 0:35:59.080 It just have more like, you know, more separation. Competition, Yeah, 0:35:59.160 --> 0:35:59.720 more competition. 0:35:59.760 --> 0:36:02.120 It's kind of crazy that there are just really three 0:36:02.200 --> 0:36:04.960 or four giant companies who all kind of think the 0:36:04.960 --> 0:36:05.480 same way. 0:36:05.680 --> 0:36:07.680 And it's really kind of not the American way. I'll 0:36:07.719 --> 0:36:08.279 put it that way. 0:36:08.640 --> 0:36:11.080 What would you do about Section two thirty? I need 0:36:11.120 --> 0:36:14.120 you to explain to our listeners. Just give us what 0:36:14.280 --> 0:36:18.160 it is, how it's used, and how it could imagining 0:36:18.200 --> 0:36:19.200 it as something better. 0:36:19.640 --> 0:36:20.080 All right. 0:36:20.120 --> 0:36:23.400 So Section two thirty was passed in the nineties to 0:36:23.480 --> 0:36:27.279 be kind of a shield or an immunity for what 0:36:27.320 --> 0:36:30.719 were then tiny little tech companies who were struggling and 0:36:30.920 --> 0:36:35.160 threatened by the possibility of being sued for things. And 0:36:35.200 --> 0:36:38.120 the idea was, for example, you know back then, demone, 0:36:38.200 --> 0:36:39.040 do you remember AOL? 0:36:39.200 --> 0:36:39.680 Is that like? 0:36:40.239 --> 0:36:43.320 No, of course I remember. I mean I am that ault. 0:36:44.320 --> 0:36:47.640 So AOL like had millions of chat rooms and invariably 0:36:47.680 --> 0:36:51.960 there was like crazy things being said, and the idea was, well, 0:36:52.080 --> 0:36:55.880 if AOL is responresponsible every single thing that someone says 0:36:55.920 --> 0:36:58.600 in any single chat room, like, the whole Internet will collapse. 0:36:58.840 --> 0:37:01.560 And so all and a bunch of other people lobby, 0:37:01.600 --> 0:37:03.000 and they say, okay, we're going to get a blanket 0:37:03.000 --> 0:37:06.680 immunity to like most state laws for defamation and you know, 0:37:06.760 --> 0:37:08.880 anything else we do wrong, we're kind of going to 0:37:08.880 --> 0:37:11.000 be immune. So they have this sort of special immunity. 0:37:11.320 --> 0:37:14.239 I will note that like newspapers radio shows do not 0:37:14.360 --> 0:37:16.440 have it. Like if a newspaper says so and so 0:37:17.000 --> 0:37:20.800 is a criminal beats his wife something like that, that's defamation, 0:37:21.280 --> 0:37:24.000 has a dread disease, whatever. But they've been kind of immune. 0:37:24.040 --> 0:37:25.799 So I think that was okay in the early days 0:37:25.800 --> 0:37:28.440 they were tiny, but more and more the tech companies 0:37:28.480 --> 0:37:32.240 are kind of deciding what you should see. Like they're big. 0:37:32.640 --> 0:37:36.000 They are in the game of presenting information. They become 0:37:36.040 --> 0:37:37.480 part of the media, but they have none of the 0:37:37.520 --> 0:37:40.000 media's duties. I guess the idea is, you know, I 0:37:40.000 --> 0:37:41.920 think it's pretty simple. It's like, okay, if you're going 0:37:42.000 --> 0:37:43.880 to be AOL, fine, But if you're going to be 0:37:44.000 --> 0:37:46.799 like YouTube and you're feeding people a steady diet of 0:37:46.880 --> 0:37:50.239 like hate crimes and insanity and then they go off 0:37:50.280 --> 0:37:52.800 and do something, or if you like Eric exposing children 0:37:52.840 --> 0:37:55.640 to like suicide videos, and you're like, I'm sorry, I 0:37:55.640 --> 0:37:57.680 guess and you're the one who sent it at them, 0:37:58.040 --> 0:37:58.439 and then. 0:37:58.360 --> 0:38:01.160 You're like, oh, you know, well, the Internet's crazy place. 0:38:01.200 --> 0:38:01.719 Sorry about that. 0:38:03.160 --> 0:38:06.719 I don't think that goes anymore. So the overarging principle 0:38:06.960 --> 0:38:08.719 is like, we're not asking for a lot. I mean, 0:38:08.719 --> 0:38:11.319 even what I'm saying here, we've done nothing to kind 0:38:11.320 --> 0:38:13.879 of control the power of big tech, nothing at all. 0:38:13.920 --> 0:38:15.879 It's been twenty five years. There's some of the most 0:38:15.880 --> 0:38:18.560 powerful companies in history. If you compare us to like 0:38:18.800 --> 0:38:21.600 Standard Oil, compare it to the fifties General Motor, whatever 0:38:21.600 --> 0:38:24.440 you want to compare it to, we have a lopsided 0:38:24.480 --> 0:38:27.080 system which is out of whack with any point in 0:38:27.120 --> 0:38:29.239 American history at this point. And I guess I was 0:38:29.280 --> 0:38:31.240 starting to say this ten years ago, and it's gotten 0:38:31.239 --> 0:38:34.000 worse and worse and worse. And if we don't do something, 0:38:34.080 --> 0:38:37.360 I feel our politics will get crazier and more violent, 0:38:37.440 --> 0:38:38.440 which is already happening. 0:38:38.680 --> 0:38:42.520 The goal here is that these platforms would have the 0:38:42.560 --> 0:38:47.759 same legal constraints the newspaper might or a publishing house might. 0:38:48.239 --> 0:38:50.480 Let mean, yes, that's in section two theories. 0:38:50.640 --> 0:38:53.120 What I would say more, particularly if we want to 0:38:53.120 --> 0:38:55.279 get down the nitty gritty, is I would say that 0:38:55.320 --> 0:38:58.359 when they promote or show you content that they own it. 0:38:58.480 --> 0:39:00.319 They can't get away, you know, if they if they're 0:39:00.320 --> 0:39:02.879 the ones who are promoting something onto your feed, that 0:39:02.880 --> 0:39:05.759 that's their responsibility. If that ends up being you know, 0:39:05.880 --> 0:39:09.319 accompliced to a crime or defamation or something like that, 0:39:09.320 --> 0:39:10.960 that they start to own it once they're involved. 0:39:11.080 --> 0:39:12.400 But I think it's broader than that. 0:39:12.440 --> 0:39:15.680 I just think we have a general scheme now thirty 0:39:15.760 --> 0:39:18.840 years old, where we immunize tech companies from most laws, 0:39:19.080 --> 0:39:22.680 almost all taxation, and you know, various other things that 0:39:22.719 --> 0:39:25.520 we use to control power to Section two thirty is 0:39:25.560 --> 0:39:28.680 a part of a much larger trend of just saying, 0:39:28.719 --> 0:39:31.400 you guys get to live in a different country more 0:39:31.480 --> 0:39:33.680 or less called Silicon Valley where the laws of the 0:39:33.760 --> 0:39:34.799 United States do not apply. 0:39:35.200 --> 0:39:40.439 So is tech tobacco? Is tech oil? Are those one 0:39:40.480 --> 0:39:41.000 to ones? 0:39:41.600 --> 0:39:45.760 No, because those other industries are much more subject to laws. 0:39:46.680 --> 0:39:49.920 And have been much less successful. I mean tobacco's an example. 0:39:49.960 --> 0:39:56.800 Eventually tobacco started to become under public influence and responsibility 0:39:56.800 --> 0:39:59.640 and eventually started losing something. No one has laid a 0:39:59.680 --> 0:40:03.040 glove on big tech. The Europeans maybe a little, but 0:40:03.160 --> 0:40:07.640 it's just this kind of completely I guess sovereign industry unaccountable. 0:40:07.880 --> 0:40:10.480 I think they believe themselves now kind of by their 0:40:10.640 --> 0:40:14.680 very nature, to be superhumans who are beyond mere democratic control. 0:40:14.960 --> 0:40:17.279 So why well, if you go and spend a lot 0:40:17.280 --> 0:40:21.120 of time in Silicon Valley like thinking, I think they 0:40:21.160 --> 0:40:25.000 have the almost religious belief that technology is taking us 0:40:25.080 --> 0:40:28.919 towards some kind of nirvana, and so if you mess 0:40:28.960 --> 0:40:32.719 with it, you're evil. So that's why, if that makes sense, 0:40:32.880 --> 0:40:35.560 I think there's an entire religious mindset that goes along 0:40:35.560 --> 0:40:37.640 with it. I was reading one of Mark Andreessen, he's 0:40:37.640 --> 0:40:41.120 this well known VC investor. Oh yes, and he said, 0:40:41.360 --> 0:40:46.680 artificial intelligence saves lives, and we need to get superhuman intelligence. 0:40:47.080 --> 0:40:49.160 So if you decelerate it or get in the way, 0:40:49.200 --> 0:40:51.400 you are basically guilty of murder. Because I was like, 0:40:51.640 --> 0:40:52.480 that's a lot. 0:40:53.400 --> 0:40:54.000 That's a lot. 0:40:54.560 --> 0:40:56.399 If you don't pay your taxes so the hospital doesn't 0:40:56.400 --> 0:40:57.879 have money, are you then guilty of murder? 0:40:57.920 --> 0:41:00.640 I mean, I'm in you can say anything saying right, 0:41:00.760 --> 0:41:04.440 that's the good thing about the Internet. It's nonsensical. So 0:41:04.600 --> 0:41:07.279 I once had a different senator explain this to me. 0:41:08.239 --> 0:41:10.160 I'm not sure it's right, but I'm not sure it's 0:41:10.200 --> 0:41:16.480 wrong that the reason the Internet is so out of 0:41:16.560 --> 0:41:21.759 control is because there's a low level grift happening with 0:41:21.880 --> 0:41:25.920 senators where you know, meta employees, the daughters of a 0:41:26.000 --> 0:41:30.440 very important United States senator crypto donates to a lot 0:41:30.560 --> 0:41:34.640 of Republicans and Democrats. That the money is just too 0:41:34.840 --> 0:41:38.000 free flowing to our politicians, and that's how we got 0:41:38.040 --> 0:41:41.160 here or that's how we stay here. Is that correct? 0:41:41.400 --> 0:41:43.719 And if so, how do you stop it? And if not, 0:41:43.920 --> 0:41:45.000 what is so? 0:41:45.160 --> 0:41:46.560 I think there's some truth to that. 0:41:46.760 --> 0:41:49.719 In the Biden administration, we tried to pass what would 0:41:49.760 --> 0:41:53.160 seem like very easy laws to pass, like protection of 0:41:53.239 --> 0:41:58.920 children's privacy, protection of children against violent and horrible materials, 0:41:59.200 --> 0:42:02.360 basic privacy for all, Like things that you would imagine 0:42:02.640 --> 0:42:05.439 if they ever got to the Senate floor or House 0:42:05.480 --> 0:42:08.880 floor would pass Nearian Nasley could never ever get a vote, 0:42:08.960 --> 0:42:10.480 and no one would ever say why. 0:42:10.640 --> 0:42:12.799 By the way, that is an insane thing to say. 0:42:13.200 --> 0:42:15.000 I mean, I know it's true because I saw it 0:42:15.040 --> 0:42:17.880 happen firsthand, But just think about how insane that is. 0:42:18.360 --> 0:42:20.960 Yes, things that like if you pulled Americans it's not 0:42:21.000 --> 0:42:24.319 like Democrat, but probably ninety percent Americans think, you know, 0:42:24.400 --> 0:42:27.719 children maybe should have more privacy online, like targeting you 0:42:27.760 --> 0:42:31.160 know ads that like targeted marketing directing at children, probably 0:42:31.200 --> 0:42:33.480 not the best idea, Like I don't maybe ninety nine 0:42:33.480 --> 0:42:34.640 percent no votes? 0:42:34.960 --> 0:42:35.880 Why no votes? 0:42:36.520 --> 0:42:39.800 You know, it would always be the leader would somehow 0:42:40.000 --> 0:42:42.960 like very murky, very secret, no votes. 0:42:43.160 --> 0:42:45.440 That was when Chuck Schumer was the majority leader. 0:42:45.600 --> 0:42:49.319 Yes, just interesting, no votes, never a vote somehow maybe 0:42:49.320 --> 0:42:51.120 wait till they know, oh you know, we'll do it 0:42:51.160 --> 0:42:53.239 next term, or yeah, you know we're going to get 0:42:53.239 --> 0:42:55.799 to that, or I no votes and like that. That's 0:42:55.840 --> 0:42:58.360 the real thing about It's not like somehow these things fail, 0:42:58.560 --> 0:43:01.200 it's they get killed before the ever a vote. So 0:43:01.280 --> 0:43:03.640 I kind of began to believe that it's just you know, 0:43:03.920 --> 0:43:06.800 I do remember that there was one or two centers 0:43:06.840 --> 0:43:09.080 leaning in our direction, and then they said they got 0:43:09.120 --> 0:43:11.560 threats to Google just run ads against them in their primary. 0:43:11.680 --> 0:43:14.319 Just just what doesn't care the content, you know, So yeah, 0:43:14.360 --> 0:43:16.120 I think there's I think they want to hold the 0:43:16.120 --> 0:43:17.440 whole political system. 0:43:17.800 --> 0:43:19.440 And the recent results speak for themselves. 0:43:19.440 --> 0:43:22.319 They had no votes on any tech relating technology for 0:43:22.360 --> 0:43:25.520 the last twenty years. That's something in the late nineties, 0:43:25.560 --> 0:43:28.000 no votes on anything, not not no passage, no votes. 0:43:28.080 --> 0:43:30.279 That's where a lot of hearings, a lot of performative 0:43:30.440 --> 0:43:32.400 yelling and like bring them in and give them a 0:43:32.440 --> 0:43:32.879 hard time. 0:43:33.080 --> 0:43:35.439 Well, they see how popular it is. They just don't 0:43:35.440 --> 0:43:36.880 want to pass legislation. 0:43:37.440 --> 0:43:39.440 Yes, they want to vote, but they do want to 0:43:39.440 --> 0:43:41.719 like yell at people and like say, I, you know, 0:43:41.760 --> 0:43:44.240 gave Mark Zuckerberg a really hard time about this stuff. 0:43:44.480 --> 0:43:49.200 Kristen Cinema, one of the many senators who was against 0:43:49.239 --> 0:43:53.840 tech regulation now lobbying for data farms. 0:43:54.160 --> 0:43:55.480 Yeah, it's a good example. 0:43:55.560 --> 0:43:57.600 I mean, I think it's very clear in the DC 0:43:58.160 --> 0:44:01.560 that if you are on kind of tech side, you 0:44:01.600 --> 0:44:06.120 can expect a nice, easy, multimillion dollar year job. We 0:44:06.160 --> 0:44:08.640 don't have to do much ever, occasionally have a meeting 0:44:08.680 --> 0:44:10.920 and you know, kind of coast and if you don't 0:44:11.160 --> 0:44:13.359 take their side, then you can work in a think tank, 0:44:13.800 --> 0:44:15.359 you know, or whatever. 0:44:15.840 --> 0:44:17.200 Or trying to get a nonprofit job. 0:44:17.200 --> 0:44:20.080 But they just kind of it's kind of like almost 0:44:20.160 --> 0:44:21.400 like bribery in advance. 0:44:22.000 --> 0:44:23.840 Does that make sense, Like it's it's not. 0:44:24.320 --> 0:44:26.879 Yeah, And that kind of hangs over people's heads and 0:44:26.920 --> 0:44:29.239 they decide, well, do I want to get my I mean, 0:44:29.280 --> 0:44:31.840 I got myself out of that game, and it was 0:44:31.880 --> 0:44:34.239 never sort of made. I guess that he came clear 0:44:34.280 --> 0:44:37.160 to me when I was starting get that disinvited from parties, 0:44:37.560 --> 0:44:39.759 subtle job offers started to go away. So, yeah, you 0:44:39.800 --> 0:44:42.160 cross some line and you're out. And I guess she 0:44:42.440 --> 0:44:44.880 read the tea leaves and decided she wanted to have 0:44:44.920 --> 0:44:47.120 a cushy job for the rest of her life and 0:44:47.480 --> 0:44:49.440 make millions in doing nothing, which is kind of what 0:44:49.560 --> 0:44:52.239 she was doing the Senate too, but not making the 0:44:52.280 --> 0:44:53.440 same amount of money. 0:44:54.560 --> 0:44:58.040 We laugh, not because it's funny, but to keep from crying. 0:44:58.360 --> 0:45:01.720 I think that yeah, there is definitely we are clearly 0:45:03.080 --> 0:45:06.040 cross to rubicon. So if you are listening to this, 0:45:06.200 --> 0:45:09.080 sort of give us, because I'm so upset, now give 0:45:09.160 --> 0:45:10.600 us a sort of call to action. 0:45:11.080 --> 0:45:13.720 I think a lot of the stuff starts with children's stuff, 0:45:14.000 --> 0:45:17.200 Like the path towards a lot of responsibility for big 0:45:17.239 --> 0:45:20.480 industries starts with children's stuff. So I think, you know, 0:45:20.600 --> 0:45:24.120 at some point the pressure to protect children becomes unbarrel. 0:45:24.160 --> 0:45:26.440 I would agree and write, you know, and try to 0:45:26.440 --> 0:45:29.840 shame your elected representatives support child protection legislation. 0:45:30.320 --> 0:45:34.000 I think from there you build other legislation. I'm a little. 0:45:33.760 --> 0:45:36.399 Cynical because I've wasted huge amounts of my time trying 0:45:36.400 --> 0:45:39.640 to get these stupid bills fast. I think you also 0:45:39.680 --> 0:45:42.759 have to get elected representatives off the fence where they 0:45:42.800 --> 0:45:46.120 just kind of occasionally complain about things but avoid the 0:45:46.200 --> 0:45:49.240 votes or the pressure being serious about wealth. 0:45:49.080 --> 0:45:50.960 And balance in our time. I mean, it's problem for 0:45:50.960 --> 0:45:52.720 the Democratic Party in some ways. 0:45:52.719 --> 0:45:54.919 The Publican Party can even be a little more open 0:45:54.960 --> 0:45:57.560 about it all. They are also very subject to their 0:45:57.600 --> 0:46:01.120 own becoming captured and just starting complain about conservatives. 0:46:01.160 --> 0:46:03.360 So those are my call the actions. 0:46:03.360 --> 0:46:05.920 Don't let your representatives just be lazy on these issues 0:46:06.200 --> 0:46:08.600 and get away with it. And you know, more generally, 0:46:08.640 --> 0:46:10.920 I think we can turn the ship around. I think 0:46:10.920 --> 0:46:14.399 the United States has at its greatest periods of being 0:46:14.480 --> 0:46:17.840 tested responded in the progressive era, New Deal era. We 0:46:18.000 --> 0:46:20.000 just need people, I don't care you vote for, who 0:46:20.040 --> 0:46:23.120 actually pledge to do things and then actually do them, 0:46:23.239 --> 0:46:25.799 because i we just elect some people who really do 0:46:25.840 --> 0:46:29.360 not are not able somehow to let votes happen in Congress, 0:46:29.400 --> 0:46:32.640 and we just let things happen at all, and we're 0:46:32.680 --> 0:46:35.120 stuck there, and you know, some of the other stuff 0:46:35.200 --> 0:46:37.760 is a distraction. We need to deal with the incredible 0:46:37.800 --> 0:46:40.200 wealth and balances in our time, and people who get 0:46:40.200 --> 0:46:42.600 distracked from that, I think are taking us away from 0:46:42.640 --> 0:46:44.280 the real problem in our in our times. 0:46:44.719 --> 0:46:46.160 Tim. I hope he'll come back. 0:46:46.520 --> 0:46:48.000 It's been a pleasure anytime. 0:46:50.360 --> 0:46:56.440 No, no, Rick Wilson, Yes, you know what time it is. 0:46:56.480 --> 0:46:59.880 It's fuckeray time, It's fuck great time. Rick Wilson, Do 0:46:59.920 --> 0:47:01.200 you do you have a moment of fuckery? 0:47:01.480 --> 0:47:03.600 I have probably what is like the pinnacle of the 0:47:03.600 --> 0:47:06.040 moments of fuckery for a long time, and that is 0:47:06.320 --> 0:47:10.000 Steve Whitkoff and Jared Kushner privately negotiating with Putin, and 0:47:10.000 --> 0:47:12.319 by that I mean taking bribes from Putin, and by 0:47:12.320 --> 0:47:14.080 that I mean being paid off by Putin, and by 0:47:14.080 --> 0:47:16.840 that I mean serving as Putin's dirty little whos in 0:47:16.960 --> 0:47:20.520 order to part out and break up Ukraine. The Russians 0:47:20.520 --> 0:47:23.000 finally have figured out their best negotiating strategy, and that 0:47:23.080 --> 0:47:26.400 is to bribe Donald Trump through Jared the bagman of 0:47:26.440 --> 0:47:29.719 the family, and to bribe Donald Trump through Stephen Whitkoff, 0:47:30.080 --> 0:47:33.560 who they have been negotiating using the Russia's plan to 0:47:33.680 --> 0:47:36.640 parcel up Ukraine. And to kill it off. They're not negotiators, 0:47:36.680 --> 0:47:40.720 they're undertakers. The bad faith that's going on here is astounding. 0:47:40.880 --> 0:47:43.720 I was told that the Ukrainian hearing or the Ukrainian 0:47:43.760 --> 0:47:47.080 meeting over the weekend with Ukrainian delegation was essentially Rubio 0:47:47.200 --> 0:47:50.080 and others insulting them, saying, fuck you, take the deal, 0:47:50.440 --> 0:47:52.120 or we'll leave you, or you're gon, We're gonna leave 0:47:52.120 --> 0:47:54.520 you out to dry. And they go into Putin's office 0:47:54.560 --> 0:47:57.240 with the Golden knee pads on and leave with sacks 0:47:57.239 --> 0:48:02.560 of cash, either physically or more metaphor. It is unbelievably 0:48:02.920 --> 0:48:06.400 insanely corrupt. Witcoff now has been reported we have his 0:48:06.680 --> 0:48:10.480 voice on tape released by European Intelligence Service. We have 0:48:10.520 --> 0:48:14.040 Witcocks saying I'm gonna teach you how to manipulate Trump 0:48:14.080 --> 0:48:17.480 so we can keep Trump on your side. Yes, listen, 0:48:17.600 --> 0:48:20.359 a prosecutor about five minutes out of law school could 0:48:20.400 --> 0:48:23.960 indict that motherfucker for espionage and treason. It is insane, 0:48:24.120 --> 0:48:26.560 and I think there's no circle of hell hot enough 0:48:26.560 --> 0:48:27.360 for those two guys. 0:48:27.560 --> 0:48:30.360 For wit Coffin, Kushner, Rick Wilson, thank you all. 0:48:31.000 --> 0:48:32.000 We'll see you next week. 0:48:32.480 --> 0:48:36.879 That's it for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in 0:48:37.200 --> 0:48:42.640 every Monday, Wednesday, Thursday, and Saturday to hear the best 0:48:42.719 --> 0:48:47.000 minds and politics make sense of all this chaos. If 0:48:47.040 --> 0:48:50.080 you enjoy this podcast, please send it to a friend 0:48:50.520 --> 0:48:53.720 and keep the conversation going. Thanks for listening.