WEBVTT - SYMHC Classics: Demon Core

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<v Speaker 1>Happy Saturday.

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<v Speaker 2>Coming up, we have an episode that has some parallels

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<v Speaker 2>to our previous episode on the Demon Core. Both of

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<v Speaker 2>these involved a nuclear incident, and both of them also

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<v Speaker 2>have discussions of the Cold War rush to develop nuclear

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<v Speaker 2>technologies that led to some dangerous shortcuts. This episode came

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<v Speaker 2>out on October twelfth, twenty twenty. Enjoy Welcome to Stuff

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<v Speaker 2>You Missed in History Class, a production of iHeartRadio.

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<v Speaker 1>Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Tracy B.

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<v Speaker 2>Wilson, and I'm Holly Frye.

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<v Speaker 1>My friend Adrian, who.

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<v Speaker 2>Is a science educator, asked me years ago at this

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<v Speaker 2>point whether we had ever thought about doing an episode

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<v Speaker 2>on the Demon Core, which sounds terrifying, and I kept

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<v Speaker 2>thinking it might make a good October episode because nuclear

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<v Speaker 2>critical accidents can be terrifying, like they expose people to

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<v Speaker 2>possibly lethal doses of radiation and just a fraction of

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<v Speaker 2>a second, usually completely by surprise and before anybody can react,

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<v Speaker 2>and then that leads to just a horrifying and gruesome

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<v Speaker 2>and sometimes prolonged death. So then every October I kept

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<v Speaker 2>moving on in other directions and not getting to the

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<v Speaker 2>demon Core.

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<v Speaker 1>Here it finally is.

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<v Speaker 2>The Demon Core was a sphere of plutonium gallium alloy

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<v Speaker 2>that the United States made for an atomic bomb during

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<v Speaker 2>World War Two, and then after the war, researchers at

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<v Speaker 2>Los Alamos National Laboratory had two separate fatal criticality accidents

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<v Speaker 2>while working with it. Those accidents are also part of

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<v Speaker 2>a greater history of criticality accidents, most of which took

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<v Speaker 2>place in the nineteen fifties and sixties. So we're going

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<v Speaker 2>to talk about that progression today just to set some expectations.

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<v Speaker 2>Nuclear reactor melt down like the disasters at Three Mile

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<v Speaker 2>Island and Chernobyl and Fukushima, those are a slightly different

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<v Speaker 2>thing from what we're talking about today. Some of them

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<v Speaker 2>could technically be classified as criticality accidents, but they're also

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<v Speaker 2>just a little bit bigger than the topics that were

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<v Speaker 2>focused on. So to make sense of how these incidents

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<v Speaker 2>play out, we need to walk through a little bit

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<v Speaker 2>of science history. In nineteen thirty two, James Chadwick discovered

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<v Speaker 2>the uncharged sub atomic particle known as the neutron, and

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<v Speaker 2>soon physicists were using neutrons to study atoms, including bombarding

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<v Speaker 2>atomic nuclei with neutrons to study the results. It was

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<v Speaker 2>through this work that ottohon Lee's Meiitner and Fritz Strassmann

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<v Speaker 2>discovered nuclear fission in nineteen thirty eight. Hahn had been

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<v Speaker 2>working with uranium samples that had been bombarded with neutrons,

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<v Speaker 2>and for reasons that he couldn't really explain, barium isotopes

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<v Speaker 2>started appearing in his samples as well. Meiitner and Strasman

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<v Speaker 2>made the connection that barium has about half the time

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<v Speaker 2>mass of uranium, so the uranium atoms were splitting into

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<v Speaker 2>two roughly equal parts. The idea that an atom could

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<v Speaker 2>split in this way had been suggested before, but it

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<v Speaker 2>was not really taken seriously at the time because it

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<v Speaker 2>seemed absolutely contrary to how people understood nuclear physics at

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<v Speaker 2>that point. This breakdown of uranium into barium didn't answer

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<v Speaker 2>all the questions, though Meitner also calculated that the two

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<v Speaker 2>new barium nuclei would be slightly less massive than the

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<v Speaker 2>original uranium nucleus, with the difference converted into energy. Atto

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<v Speaker 2>Haan was awarded the Nobel Prize in Chemistry for the

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<v Speaker 2>discovery of nuclear fission in nineteen forty four. Although Meiitner

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<v Speaker 2>and Strassman were mentioned in the speech, they were not

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<v Speaker 2>included in that award. Nuclear fission can happen spontaneously in

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<v Speaker 2>the natural world, and the details can play out a

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<v Speaker 2>little bit differently in different elements and isotopes, but in

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<v Speaker 2>terms of what we're talking about today, it typically starts

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<v Speaker 2>with neutrons. Neutrons interact with the atom's nucleus, causing it

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<v Speaker 2>to split. That split releases one or more other neutrons,

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<v Speaker 2>and in the right conditions, those neutrons can reach the

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<v Speaker 2>nuclei of other nearby atoms, causing them to split. That

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<v Speaker 2>can continue on in a chain reaction. If there's enough

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<v Speaker 2>material in one place to support a regular, ongoing, self

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<v Speaker 2>sustaining chain reaction, that's known as critical mass. In a

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<v Speaker 2>supercritical mass, this chain reaction unfolds at an escalating rate

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<v Speaker 2>instead of a steady one. It's not just about how

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<v Speaker 2>much physical material is in one place, though. The volume

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<v Speaker 2>of the material, it's geometry, its concentration, its surroundings, and

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<v Speaker 2>other factors all play a part. As a hypothetical example,

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<v Speaker 2>if you have a very thin sheet of uranium two

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<v Speaker 2>thirty five, a lot of the neutrons that are released

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<v Speaker 2>during fission are going to fly off into the surrounding

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<v Speaker 2>air without hitting any uranium atoms. But if you have

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<v Speaker 2>the same amount of uranium two thirty five packed into

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<v Speaker 2>a tight sphere, the neutrons from the interior are far

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<v Speaker 2>more likely to interact with other nuclei as they travel,

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<v Speaker 2>potentially starting a chain reaction. So the elements that break

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<v Speaker 2>down and these interactions are radioactive, and the products of

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<v Speaker 2>fission are generally radioactive as well. The energy that's released

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<v Speaker 2>during nuclear fission, which there can be a lot of,

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<v Speaker 2>also includes ionizing radiation, and while ionizing radiation has some

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<v Speaker 2>beneficial uses, it can also be incredibly destructive to living cells.

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<v Speaker 2>Criticality accidents can expose people and objects to just enormous

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<v Speaker 2>amounts of radiation in an instant, so facilities that handle

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<v Speaker 2>these types of materials have to take a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>precautions to protect people from radiation and to prevent an

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<v Speaker 2>accidental criticality, which is sometimes also called a power excursion.

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<v Speaker 2>This includes restrictions on how much material can be in

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<v Speaker 2>a particular place and how its to be handled. Containers

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<v Speaker 2>to hold the material have to be shaped in a

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<v Speaker 2>way that is unfavorable for criticality and made of materials

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<v Speaker 2>that won't reflect too many sub atomic particles. Back into

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<v Speaker 2>the material, and people handling the material have to be

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<v Speaker 2>trained on how to prevent criticality accidents. Some of this

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<v Speaker 2>can be a little counterintuitive to outside observers. For example,

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<v Speaker 2>if you saw some plutonium rods placed near each other

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<v Speaker 2>in a way that could potentially lead to a criticality,

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<v Speaker 2>your first instinct might be to move them apart so

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<v Speaker 2>that they would not do that. But a person's own

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<v Speaker 2>body can also reflect neutrons back at the material, so

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<v Speaker 2>that very act of trying to prevent a criticality accident

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<v Speaker 2>could actually wind up causing one instead. This is a

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<v Speaker 2>real example. It happened at Los Alamos National Laboratory in

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<v Speaker 2>August of twenty eleven after somebody made an arrangement of

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<v Speaker 2>plutonium rods for a photo op. Fortunately, while what what

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<v Speaker 2>happened was outside the bounds of safety guidelines, it did

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<v Speaker 2>not cause a criticality accident. Because nuclear fission releases energy,

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<v Speaker 2>its discovery had immediate and obvious implications for both energy

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<v Speaker 2>production and warfare, and multiple nations started trying to develop

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<v Speaker 2>nuclear reactors and atomic bombs. In the United States, the

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<v Speaker 2>effort to develop an atomic bomb was code named the

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<v Speaker 2>Manhattan Project, which also involved the construction of nuclear reactors

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<v Speaker 2>to produce the necessary radioactive materials for the bomb. For

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<v Speaker 2>the most part, the reactors converted naturally occurring uranium into

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<v Speaker 2>uranium and plutonium fuel. Most of the natural uranium that

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<v Speaker 2>was used in American projects during World War II was

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<v Speaker 2>mined in what was then the Belgian Congo, and then

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<v Speaker 2>after the war that source shifted to the Navajo Nation

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<v Speaker 2>and surrounding areas. The environmental, human rights, and health consequences

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<v Speaker 2>of these uranium mining operations, some of which are extreme,

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<v Speaker 2>are still on going today. For example, there are still

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<v Speaker 2>hundreds of abandoned uranium mines on or near the lands

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<v Speaker 2>of multiple indigenous nations in the US, and even though

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<v Speaker 2>the EPA has entered into settlements totaling one point seven

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<v Speaker 2>billion dollars, those settlements covered cleanup for fewer than half

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<v Speaker 2>of these mines, and almost none of them have actually

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<v Speaker 2>been addressed at this point. Although nuclear research took place

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<v Speaker 2>at multiple facilities around the country, the primary lamb for

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<v Speaker 2>atomic bomb development in the US was in Los Alamos,

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<v Speaker 2>New Mexico. Simultaneously, researchers had to figure out the technology

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<v Speaker 2>for the bomb, produced the nuclear material to power it,

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<v Speaker 2>and figure out how to handle that material safely without

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<v Speaker 2>accidentally allowing it to go critical or supercritical, all while

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<v Speaker 2>trying to create a weapon that was supposed to go supercritical.

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<v Speaker 2>One of the bombs that was created through the Manhattan

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<v Speaker 2>Project was known as Little Boy. Then it was detonated

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<v Speaker 2>over Hiroshima, Japan, on August six, nineteen forty five. This

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<v Speaker 2>bomb contained a subcritical mass of enriched uranium along with

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<v Speaker 2>a subcritical uranium projectile. A gun fired the projectile into

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<v Speaker 2>the mass, and together the mass and the projectile were supercritical.

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<v Speaker 2>This bomb was equivalent to about fifteen thousand tons of TNT.

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<v Speaker 2>It killed an estimated one hundred and fifty thousand people

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<v Speaker 2>and leveled much of the city. The Manhattan Project also

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<v Speaker 2>produced three plutonium cores to be used in implosion style

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<v Speaker 2>bombs during World War II. In this setup, the plutonium

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<v Speaker 2>core is surrounded by conventional explosives. When those explosives detonate,

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<v Speaker 2>they compress the core, causing it to go from subcritical

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<v Speaker 2>to supercritical. One of these cores was detonated at a

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<v Speaker 2>test at the Alamogordo Bombing and Gunnery Range also called

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<v Speaker 2>the Trinity Site, on July sixteenth, nineteen forty five. Another

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<v Speaker 2>was used in the bomb known as Fat Man, which

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<v Speaker 2>was detonated over Nagasaki, Japan, on August ninth, nineteen forty five,

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<v Speaker 2>killing an estimated seventy five thousand people. The third plutonium

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<v Speaker 2>core was nearing completion when Japan announced its surrender on

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<v Speaker 2>August fifteenth, nineteen forty five, meaning that it was no

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<v Speaker 2>longer needed for World War two. Later, the US started

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<v Speaker 2>planning Operation Crossroads, which was a test of nuclear weapons

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<v Speaker 2>effects on warships at seed to take place off Bikini Atoll.

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<v Speaker 1>This third core, the one.

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<v Speaker 2>That would later be nicknamed the Demon Corps, was slated

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<v Speaker 2>for use in these tests, but in the meantime it

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<v Speaker 2>was used for criticality research. It was during that research

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<v Speaker 2>that they nicknamed it the Demon cor even though to

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<v Speaker 2>be clear, did not kill nearly as many people as

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<v Speaker 2>the other two that were detonated over cities. And we're

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<v Speaker 2>going to talk more about the Demon Corps after we

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<v Speaker 2>first pause for a sponsor break. The plutonium core that

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<v Speaker 2>was eventually nicknamed the Demon Core was originally nicknamed Rufus.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know why, but so many sources have said

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<v Speaker 2>that that seems legitimate. It was a six point two

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<v Speaker 2>kilogram or thirteen point seven pound sphere really two hemispheres

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<v Speaker 2>made of refined plutonium and gallium. Under normal conditions, it

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<v Speaker 2>was ninety five percent of a critical mass, so it's

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<v Speaker 2>often described as having a hair trigger, although it had

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<v Speaker 2>been created for use in a bomb. This hair trigger

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<v Speaker 2>also made the core useful for criticality experiments. Physicists could

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<v Speaker 2>intentionally reflect neutrons back at the core to push it

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<v Speaker 2>close to criticality and gather data about what was happening.

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<v Speaker 2>Physicist Richard Feynman, who's work with the Manhattan Project included

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<v Speaker 2>helping to work out stand to prevent criticality accidents, reportedly

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<v Speaker 2>nicknamed these types of experiments tickling the Dragon's Tail. On

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<v Speaker 2>August twenty first, nineteen forty five, twenty four year old

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<v Speaker 2>graduate student Harry Dallion Junior was working by himself in

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<v Speaker 2>the lab. Because of the nature of the work that

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<v Speaker 2>was being done at Los Alamos, like it was critical

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<v Speaker 2>to the war effort, it involved part of the nation's

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<v Speaker 2>nuclear material stockpile, it was standard for security guards to

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<v Speaker 2>always be present, so even though Dallian was working alone

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<v Speaker 2>on this experiment, there was one other person in the

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<v Speaker 2>room that was twenty nine year old Private Robert Hemerley,

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<v Speaker 2>who was sitting at a table about twelve feet away

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<v Speaker 2>from the core. Dallian was using tungsten carbid bricks to

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<v Speaker 2>build a reflective wall around the plutonium core by hand.

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<v Speaker 2>The bricks reflected neutrons back at the core, inching it

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<v Speaker 2>closer to criticality. The more bricks he added, the more

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<v Speaker 2>neutrons were reflected, and the closer the core got to

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<v Speaker 2>going critical. As Dallian was about to add the last

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<v Speaker 2>brick in this structure, his instruments showed that doing so

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<v Speaker 2>was going to cause the core to go critical, so

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<v Speaker 2>he tried to pull that last brick away, but as

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<v Speaker 2>he did, it slipped out of his hand and dropped

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<v Speaker 2>directly onto the core. Dallian used his other hand to

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<v Speaker 2>knock the dropped brick away, but it was too late.

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<v Speaker 2>There was a wave of heat and a brief flash

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<v Speaker 2>of blue light all around the exterior of the sphere.

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<v Speaker 2>That light was probably Chirinkov radiation, which is the result

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<v Speaker 2>of charged particles moving faster than the speed of light

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<v Speaker 2>through a transparent medium like air. In that brief moment

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<v Speaker 2>between when he dropped the brick and when he knocked

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<v Speaker 2>it away, Dallian was hit with a blast of neutron radiation.

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<v Speaker 2>He disassembled the reflector that he had built, and that

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<v Speaker 2>continued to expose him to gamma radiation while he was

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<v Speaker 2>doing so. Today, absorbed radiation is measured in gray, with

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<v Speaker 2>its one gray being equivalent to one hundred rads. A

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<v Speaker 2>sudden whole body dose of zero point seven gray is

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<v Speaker 2>enough to cause acute radiation sickness. Sometimes symptoms can develop

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<v Speaker 2>at as little as zero point three gray. Dallian's dose

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<v Speaker 2>was estimated at five point one gray. He died twenty

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<v Speaker 2>five days after the accident on September fifteenth, nineteen forty five.

0:14:24.760 --> 0:14:28.480
<v Speaker 2>Private Hammerley's dose was estimated at zero point five gray.

0:14:29.160 --> 0:14:33.360
<v Speaker 2>He survived this incident apparently without serious injury at the time.

0:14:33.440 --> 0:14:36.880
<v Speaker 2>If you read older articles that were published before his

0:14:37.080 --> 0:14:40.560
<v Speaker 2>death later on like they'll say that he wasn't seriously harmed,

0:14:41.080 --> 0:14:43.640
<v Speaker 2>but he wound up dying of leukemia, which might have

0:14:43.680 --> 0:14:48.440
<v Speaker 2>been related to this radiation exposure, when he was sixty two. Afterward,

0:14:48.600 --> 0:14:53.239
<v Speaker 2>criticality experiments continued at Los Alamos in spite of this fatality.

0:14:53.320 --> 0:14:57.080
<v Speaker 2>Although some new safety standards were put into play, the

0:14:57.200 --> 0:15:00.120
<v Speaker 2>list of people allowed to do these kinds of experiments

0:15:00.200 --> 0:15:03.640
<v Speaker 2>was shortened, with two sets of monitoring equipment required for

0:15:03.720 --> 0:15:08.000
<v Speaker 2>each experiment. The new standards reiterated that at least two

0:15:08.120 --> 0:15:11.120
<v Speaker 2>people in addition to the guard, had to be present

0:15:11.160 --> 0:15:14.880
<v Speaker 2>for this kind of work. Researchers also started discussing whether

0:15:14.920 --> 0:15:17.840
<v Speaker 2>it would be better to do these kinds of experiments remotely,

0:15:18.240 --> 0:15:20.640
<v Speaker 2>so that if a criticality did happen, it would be

0:15:20.680 --> 0:15:24.680
<v Speaker 2>too far away from people to hurt them. Operation Crossroads

0:15:24.760 --> 0:15:27.640
<v Speaker 2>was scheduled to start in July of nineteen forty six,

0:15:28.280 --> 0:15:31.040
<v Speaker 2>but before the core was sent to the Marshall Islands

0:15:31.040 --> 0:15:34.960
<v Speaker 2>to be used there, physicists were doing one last set

0:15:35.000 --> 0:15:38.920
<v Speaker 2>of criticality experiments with it. On May twenty first, nineteen

0:15:39.000 --> 0:15:43.280
<v Speaker 2>forty six, Canadian physicist Lewis Slowten was using a hollow

0:15:43.360 --> 0:15:47.240
<v Speaker 2>beryllium sphere to mostly cover up the core and reflect

0:15:47.360 --> 0:15:51.680
<v Speaker 2>neutrons back into it. The sphere had two halves, The

0:15:51.720 --> 0:15:54.480
<v Speaker 2>core was sort of resting in the bottom half, and

0:15:54.520 --> 0:15:57.360
<v Speaker 2>he had his thumb threaded through a hole in the

0:15:57.400 --> 0:16:00.200
<v Speaker 2>top half so that he could adjust the positioning this

0:16:00.280 --> 0:16:03.640
<v Speaker 2>sort of dome with his hand. He knew that if

0:16:03.640 --> 0:16:07.720
<v Speaker 2>the sphere closed completely it could cause a criticality, so

0:16:07.760 --> 0:16:11.200
<v Speaker 2>he used the end of a screwdriver to keep the

0:16:11.240 --> 0:16:13.200
<v Speaker 2>two halves slightly separate.

0:16:13.680 --> 0:16:14.400
<v Speaker 1>This sounds like the.

0:16:14.400 --> 0:16:16.240
<v Speaker 2>Kind of thing I would do at my house with

0:16:16.280 --> 0:16:18.680
<v Speaker 2>something that is not dangerous, And even so my husband

0:16:18.720 --> 0:16:20.360
<v Speaker 2>would go, are you sure that's how you want to

0:16:20.400 --> 0:16:20.640
<v Speaker 2>do it?

0:16:21.080 --> 0:16:21.320
<v Speaker 1>Yes?

0:16:21.640 --> 0:16:26.160
<v Speaker 2>Yes, I have a story on this subject about myself

0:16:26.280 --> 0:16:28.600
<v Speaker 2>that I will probably tell in our Friday behind the

0:16:28.640 --> 0:16:31.080
<v Speaker 2>scenes fabulous.

0:16:30.720 --> 0:16:32.120
<v Speaker 1>While I have.

0:16:33.560 --> 0:16:36.000
<v Speaker 2>Some understanding of how a person might do a really

0:16:36.040 --> 0:16:39.280
<v Speaker 2>foolish thing, knowing how foolish it is, I was not

0:16:39.560 --> 0:16:47.400
<v Speaker 2>handling potentially critical nuclear weapons cores at the time. As

0:16:47.480 --> 0:16:51.360
<v Speaker 2>he was doing this, the screwdriver slipped and the dome

0:16:51.680 --> 0:16:55.000
<v Speaker 2>totally closed. There was a brief flash of blue light

0:16:55.080 --> 0:16:57.800
<v Speaker 2>that was visible over the normal illumination of the room.

0:16:58.360 --> 0:17:01.000
<v Speaker 2>This lasted only a moment as and flipped the dome

0:17:01.120 --> 0:17:05.480
<v Speaker 2>off of the core. Slowden seems to have immediately understood

0:17:05.520 --> 0:17:09.159
<v Speaker 2>that he was not going to survive this accident, saying, well,

0:17:09.640 --> 0:17:14.280
<v Speaker 2>that does it. In general, a whole body radiation dose

0:17:14.320 --> 0:17:18.080
<v Speaker 2>of more than ten gray is inevitably fatal, and his

0:17:18.280 --> 0:17:22.560
<v Speaker 2>has been estimated at twenty one gray. At the same time,

0:17:22.680 --> 0:17:25.200
<v Speaker 2>he had the presence of mind to try to document

0:17:25.240 --> 0:17:28.400
<v Speaker 2>where the other seven observers in the room had been

0:17:28.480 --> 0:17:31.000
<v Speaker 2>standing at the time, and then to try to calculate

0:17:31.080 --> 0:17:34.520
<v Speaker 2>how large of a dose of radiation each of them received.

0:17:35.280 --> 0:17:38.840
<v Speaker 2>Their doses have been estimated as ranging between zero point

0:17:38.920 --> 0:17:43.160
<v Speaker 2>three seven and three point six gray. Slowden also tried

0:17:43.160 --> 0:17:46.879
<v Speaker 2>to detect how much radiation was present in other objects

0:17:46.920 --> 0:17:49.840
<v Speaker 2>that were in the room, but the detectors themselves had

0:17:49.880 --> 0:17:53.320
<v Speaker 2>been contaminated in the accident. At the same time, he

0:17:53.560 --> 0:17:57.520
<v Speaker 2>wasn't thinking entirely clearly. He asked a colleague to scatter

0:17:57.640 --> 0:18:01.760
<v Speaker 2>film badges used to detect radiation exposure around the area,

0:18:02.040 --> 0:18:04.359
<v Speaker 2>and that required the colleague to get close to the

0:18:04.440 --> 0:18:08.680
<v Speaker 2>radioactive corps to do so. Slotin died nine days after

0:18:08.720 --> 0:18:11.760
<v Speaker 2>this accident at the age of thirty five, and although

0:18:11.760 --> 0:18:14.359
<v Speaker 2>he was the only person killed, three other people in

0:18:14.400 --> 0:18:18.600
<v Speaker 2>the room had to be hospitalized for acute radiation exposure.

0:18:18.440 --> 0:18:20.040
<v Speaker 1>And one of them was Alvin C.

0:18:20.359 --> 0:18:23.639
<v Speaker 2>Graves, who was the closest to Slowtin physically. When this

0:18:23.760 --> 0:18:28.520
<v Speaker 2>accident happened, Slowtin had actually been training Graves as his replacement.

0:18:29.280 --> 0:18:32.080
<v Speaker 2>Graves was seriously injured and for a time it was

0:18:32.160 --> 0:18:34.760
<v Speaker 2>not certain whether he was going to survive. He later

0:18:34.840 --> 0:18:38.600
<v Speaker 2>developed cataracts and thyroid issues, and his death from a

0:18:38.600 --> 0:18:41.840
<v Speaker 2>heart attack nineteen years later may also have been related.

0:18:42.400 --> 0:18:46.520
<v Speaker 2>In general, people have viewed Harry Dallion Junior's accident with

0:18:46.560 --> 0:18:50.680
<v Speaker 2>a bit more sympathy than Lewis Slotin's. Dallian was working alone,

0:18:50.680 --> 0:18:54.159
<v Speaker 2>which was against protocol, but he was also a graduate student,

0:18:54.280 --> 0:18:58.440
<v Speaker 2>so he was not as experienced as many of his colleagues. Slowtin,

0:18:58.520 --> 0:19:00.920
<v Speaker 2>on the other hand, was not only as senior scientist,

0:19:01.080 --> 0:19:03.760
<v Speaker 2>but had also co authored the official report on the

0:19:03.880 --> 0:19:07.960
<v Speaker 2>accident that had killed Harry Dallion, so he definitely understood

0:19:08.000 --> 0:19:11.879
<v Speaker 2>the risks and the potential for accident. His experiment was

0:19:11.960 --> 0:19:14.959
<v Speaker 2>meant to be done with two one inch spacers between

0:19:15.000 --> 0:19:18.400
<v Speaker 2>the two halves of the beryllium sphere, but Slotin had

0:19:18.440 --> 0:19:21.639
<v Speaker 2>removed these and was using the screwdriver in their place.

0:19:22.640 --> 0:19:26.280
<v Speaker 2>Multiple other scientists who were aware of the criticality experiment

0:19:26.359 --> 0:19:29.840
<v Speaker 2>he was doing thought it was inordinately dangerous, and in

0:19:29.920 --> 0:19:32.960
<v Speaker 2>general he had a reputation for being a little too

0:19:33.040 --> 0:19:38.119
<v Speaker 2>cavalier around things like atomic bomb cores. Scientists nicknamed this

0:19:38.240 --> 0:19:41.199
<v Speaker 2>corps the demon Corps, not just because it had been

0:19:41.280 --> 0:19:44.439
<v Speaker 2>part of both of these fatal accidents, but also because

0:19:44.480 --> 0:19:48.480
<v Speaker 2>of some eerie similarities between them. Both accidents took place

0:19:48.560 --> 0:19:50.919
<v Speaker 2>on the twenty first of the month and on a Tuesday,

0:19:51.440 --> 0:19:54.280
<v Speaker 2>and Slotin and Dallion both died in the same hospital

0:19:54.359 --> 0:19:58.040
<v Speaker 2>room at the US Engineer's Hospital at Los Alamos. By

0:19:58.040 --> 0:20:02.720
<v Speaker 2>this point, work had started on remote facility for criticality experiments,

0:20:02.760 --> 0:20:06.159
<v Speaker 2>and after the second accident with the demon Core, hands

0:20:06.160 --> 0:20:10.720
<v Speaker 2>on criticality experiments like this were banned. In nineteen forty seven,

0:20:10.840 --> 0:20:15.560
<v Speaker 2>criticality experiments resumed at the newly completed critical Experiments facility

0:20:15.640 --> 0:20:19.680
<v Speaker 2>at what was known as the Paharito Site. Criticality experiments

0:20:19.720 --> 0:20:22.600
<v Speaker 2>there were handled with machinery and took place a quarter

0:20:22.680 --> 0:20:25.040
<v Speaker 2>mile from the control room where the people doing the

0:20:25.080 --> 0:20:29.439
<v Speaker 2>experiments were. Since the amount of radiation drops dramatically the

0:20:29.560 --> 0:20:32.280
<v Speaker 2>farther you are away from the source, this was much

0:20:32.320 --> 0:20:36.399
<v Speaker 2>safer than doing something like stacking reflective blocks with your hands.

0:20:36.840 --> 0:20:39.840
<v Speaker 2>Dallian and Slotan were the only two people to die

0:20:39.920 --> 0:20:45.080
<v Speaker 2>from acute radiation exposure at Los Alamos during the Manhattan Project.

0:20:45.400 --> 0:20:48.359
<v Speaker 2>Although there were numerous other deaths in and around the

0:20:48.400 --> 0:20:51.480
<v Speaker 2>facility during those same years, a lot of them were

0:20:51.480 --> 0:20:55.240
<v Speaker 2>from accidents that had nothing to do with radioactive materials

0:20:55.320 --> 0:21:00.040
<v Speaker 2>or bombs. This included motor vehicle accidents, construction accidents, and

0:21:00.119 --> 0:21:03.040
<v Speaker 2>in one case, a ten year old who drowned when

0:21:03.040 --> 0:21:07.720
<v Speaker 2>a canoe capsized. In nineteen forty six, three custodians also

0:21:07.880 --> 0:21:11.439
<v Speaker 2>died of ethylene glycol poisoning after drinking wine that was

0:21:11.480 --> 0:21:14.960
<v Speaker 2>mixed with antifreeze. In terms of the demon Core, for

0:21:15.200 --> 0:21:17.760
<v Speaker 2>years after this incident happened, it was believed that it

0:21:17.800 --> 0:21:20.560
<v Speaker 2>was sent on to Bikini Atoll for use in Operation

0:21:20.680 --> 0:21:24.720
<v Speaker 2>Crossroads as planned, and while it was described as quote

0:21:24.760 --> 0:21:27.520
<v Speaker 2>a little hot but not too hot to handle, after

0:21:27.560 --> 0:21:30.960
<v Speaker 2>that second accident, it was saved for the last detonation,

0:21:31.359 --> 0:21:34.080
<v Speaker 2>just in case that was going to affect the results.

0:21:34.560 --> 0:21:37.480
<v Speaker 2>That last test wound up being canceled, and the demon

0:21:37.560 --> 0:21:41.040
<v Speaker 2>Cor was later melted down and reintegrated into the nuclear

0:21:41.080 --> 0:21:45.320
<v Speaker 2>material stockpile. At some point it was probably incorporated into

0:21:45.400 --> 0:21:48.879
<v Speaker 2>other weapons. Before we move on, we should note that

0:21:48.880 --> 0:21:52.880
<v Speaker 2>there have been ongoing issues with safety at Los Alamos

0:21:53.000 --> 0:21:56.840
<v Speaker 2>National Laboratory in more recent years. Aside from that twenty

0:21:56.840 --> 0:22:01.560
<v Speaker 2>eleven plutonium photo op that we mentioned earlier. In twenty seventeen,

0:22:01.640 --> 0:22:05.360
<v Speaker 2>it was rated does not meet expectations in the Department

0:22:05.359 --> 0:22:10.159
<v Speaker 2>of Energy Nuclear Criticality Safety Programs annual report that was

0:22:10.240 --> 0:22:14.360
<v Speaker 2>raised up to adequate but needs improvement in twenty eighteen

0:22:14.440 --> 0:22:18.280
<v Speaker 2>and twenty nineteen. Also, that second accident with the demon

0:22:18.359 --> 0:22:21.639
<v Speaker 2>core is dramatized in the nineteen eighty nine film Fat

0:22:21.680 --> 0:22:24.960
<v Speaker 2>Man and Little Boy, with John Cusack as a fictionalized

0:22:25.000 --> 0:22:28.480
<v Speaker 2>SLOTIN who is named Michael Merriman in the film. Yeah,

0:22:28.480 --> 0:22:31.199
<v Speaker 2>I watched just that scene while I was working on this,

0:22:31.280 --> 0:22:34.000
<v Speaker 2>and even knowing literally what's going to happen, I found

0:22:34.040 --> 0:22:40.159
<v Speaker 2>it very tense. Yeah, so we're gonna take a quick break.

0:22:48.600 --> 0:22:51.800
<v Speaker 2>The two incidents that we already talked about happened during

0:22:52.000 --> 0:22:56.720
<v Speaker 2>criticality experiments. The researchers were intentionally pushing the limits to

0:22:56.800 --> 0:23:00.240
<v Speaker 2>do tests and gather data. But many of the other

0:23:00.400 --> 0:23:05.040
<v Speaker 2>nuclear criticality accidents have happened while nuclear material was being

0:23:05.200 --> 0:23:09.240
<v Speaker 2>processed in some way. So these are people working at

0:23:09.280 --> 0:23:14.240
<v Speaker 2>facilities that were actively trying to avoid a criticality. However,

0:23:14.280 --> 0:23:16.560
<v Speaker 2>in a lot of cases, the workers who were actually

0:23:16.600 --> 0:23:21.480
<v Speaker 2>handling this material also were not nuclear physicists. In some cases,

0:23:21.520 --> 0:23:24.920
<v Speaker 2>they hadn't really been trained in criticality safety at all.

0:23:25.040 --> 0:23:28.320
<v Speaker 2>They didn't necessarily know that something like the size and

0:23:28.440 --> 0:23:31.879
<v Speaker 2>shape of a container could be an integral part of

0:23:31.920 --> 0:23:36.920
<v Speaker 2>preventing a disaster. For example, on March fifteenth, nineteen fifty three,

0:23:37.080 --> 0:23:41.040
<v Speaker 2>at the Mayak Enterprise facility in Russia, two workers were

0:23:41.040 --> 0:23:45.879
<v Speaker 2>transferring plutonium solution from one vessel to another. Vessels had

0:23:45.920 --> 0:23:48.679
<v Speaker 2>been arranged in a row along a wall, and every

0:23:48.720 --> 0:23:52.480
<v Speaker 2>other vessel was supposed to be left empty to prevent criticality.

0:23:53.440 --> 0:23:56.359
<v Speaker 2>The vessels were also supposed to contain at most five

0:23:56.480 --> 0:24:00.359
<v Speaker 2>hundred grams of plutonium, but neither of those limits was

0:24:00.400 --> 0:24:04.600
<v Speaker 2>actually being followed. Vessels contained plutonium when they weren't supposed to,

0:24:05.200 --> 0:24:08.320
<v Speaker 2>and also contained more than that five hundred grand limit,

0:24:08.840 --> 0:24:13.160
<v Speaker 2>So when a criticality occurred during this plutonium transfer, workers

0:24:13.320 --> 0:24:16.639
<v Speaker 2>not only did not know that it had happened, but

0:24:16.720 --> 0:24:18.840
<v Speaker 2>they also did not know that it had caused a

0:24:18.920 --> 0:24:22.080
<v Speaker 2>serious problem because they had not been trained on this.

0:24:22.640 --> 0:24:25.800
<v Speaker 2>They just noticed that one of the vessels became warm

0:24:25.920 --> 0:24:29.360
<v Speaker 2>to the touch, so they started removing the plutonium solution

0:24:29.600 --> 0:24:33.040
<v Speaker 2>out of it and kept on working. They only reported

0:24:33.080 --> 0:24:35.840
<v Speaker 2>the incident two days later when one of them suddenly

0:24:35.880 --> 0:24:39.040
<v Speaker 2>became ill. The worker who was closer to the vessel

0:24:39.080 --> 0:24:41.520
<v Speaker 2>when it went critical ultimately had to have both of

0:24:41.560 --> 0:24:45.480
<v Speaker 2>his legs amputated because of extreme tissue damage from this exposure.

0:24:46.000 --> 0:24:46.520
<v Speaker 1>But in some.

0:24:46.640 --> 0:24:50.720
<v Speaker 2>Cases, the staff involved in these incidents were trained. That

0:24:50.880 --> 0:24:53.399
<v Speaker 2>was the case with Cecil Kelly, who received a lethal

0:24:53.480 --> 0:24:56.800
<v Speaker 2>radiation dose in a criticality accident at Los Alamos on

0:24:56.840 --> 0:25:00.560
<v Speaker 2>December thirtieth, nineteen fifty eight. Kelly he had more than

0:25:00.560 --> 0:25:03.600
<v Speaker 2>a decade of experience, but the tank he was working

0:25:03.600 --> 0:25:06.760
<v Speaker 2>with had a concentration of plutonium that was more than

0:25:06.800 --> 0:25:09.760
<v Speaker 2>two hundred times what it should have been. For reasons

0:25:09.760 --> 0:25:13.840
<v Speaker 2>that are not entirely clear, this happened during a physical

0:25:13.840 --> 0:25:17.359
<v Speaker 2>inventory when liquids from two holding vessels were moved into

0:25:17.400 --> 0:25:21.159
<v Speaker 2>one larger vessel. So Kelly was standing on a small

0:25:21.280 --> 0:25:24.080
<v Speaker 2>ladder to see into a viewing window on a tank

0:25:24.160 --> 0:25:28.280
<v Speaker 2>that was being used to chemically separate plutonium from other compounds,

0:25:28.800 --> 0:25:32.200
<v Speaker 2>and when he turned the stir on inside the tank,

0:25:32.720 --> 0:25:36.840
<v Speaker 2>the shape of the plutonium layer inside this solution allowed

0:25:36.840 --> 0:25:40.320
<v Speaker 2>it to go critical. The radiation dose to his upper

0:25:40.320 --> 0:25:43.600
<v Speaker 2>body has been estimated at one hundred and twenty gray.

0:25:44.240 --> 0:25:47.199
<v Speaker 2>Kelly either fell or was knocked to the floor and

0:25:47.359 --> 0:25:51.840
<v Speaker 2>was completely disoriented after the criticality. He kept saying I'm

0:25:51.880 --> 0:25:55.120
<v Speaker 2>burning up, and his colleagues, and a nurse who arrived

0:25:55.160 --> 0:25:57.920
<v Speaker 2>thought he had sustained some kind of a chemical burn.

0:25:58.600 --> 0:26:01.879
<v Speaker 2>The nurse even commented that he had nice pink skin.

0:26:02.680 --> 0:26:05.199
<v Speaker 2>This was actually a sign of radiation exposure, like a

0:26:05.240 --> 0:26:09.840
<v Speaker 2>mild sunburn, and not a sign of being in good health. Yeah,

0:26:09.840 --> 0:26:13.160
<v Speaker 2>because of the all of the safety measures and his

0:26:13.200 --> 0:26:15.959
<v Speaker 2>training and all this other stuff. Like his colleagues, it

0:26:16.040 --> 0:26:18.199
<v Speaker 2>was like it took a while for them to be like,

0:26:18.440 --> 0:26:22.240
<v Speaker 2>did a criticality happen and we didn't realize it. Kelly

0:26:22.359 --> 0:26:25.680
<v Speaker 2>died thirty five hours after his exposure, and his death

0:26:25.800 --> 0:26:30.359
<v Speaker 2>actually sparked the Human Tissue Analysis project at Los Alamos.

0:26:30.920 --> 0:26:34.439
<v Speaker 2>They would keep tissue samples for further study, and that

0:26:34.480 --> 0:26:38.760
<v Speaker 2>actually led to a lawsuit. Kelly's family had authorized an

0:26:38.800 --> 0:26:42.440
<v Speaker 2>autopsy to determine his cause of death, but they did

0:26:42.480 --> 0:26:46.119
<v Speaker 2>not imagine that that was going to include tissue samples

0:26:46.160 --> 0:26:50.760
<v Speaker 2>being retained for further study through this program. Other criticality

0:26:50.840 --> 0:26:54.680
<v Speaker 2>accidents during the nineteen fifties and sixties stemmed from workers

0:26:54.760 --> 0:26:59.520
<v Speaker 2>intentionally bypassing safeguards meant to prevent them. Once such accident

0:26:59.520 --> 0:27:02.280
<v Speaker 2>happened on July twenty fourth, nineteen sixty four, at a

0:27:02.320 --> 0:27:06.560
<v Speaker 2>facility that recovered uranium from scrap metal in Wood River Junction,

0:27:06.760 --> 0:27:10.320
<v Speaker 2>Rhode Island. This facility had been in operation for about

0:27:10.359 --> 0:27:14.359
<v Speaker 2>four months, and part of the process involved workers manually

0:27:14.480 --> 0:27:19.359
<v Speaker 2>shaking eleven liter bottles full of contaminated solvent. This was

0:27:19.400 --> 0:27:23.119
<v Speaker 2>a tedious process that no one particularly enjoyed, so a

0:27:23.160 --> 0:27:26.440
<v Speaker 2>worker had the idea to combine the contents of several

0:27:26.560 --> 0:27:30.120
<v Speaker 2>eleven liter bottles into a large tank and to use

0:27:30.160 --> 0:27:34.359
<v Speaker 2>a stir. Running Concurrently with that decision, one of the

0:27:34.400 --> 0:27:38.600
<v Speaker 2>plant's evaporators had not been working properly, and it turned

0:27:38.640 --> 0:27:41.000
<v Speaker 2>out that this was because it was plugged with uranal

0:27:41.080 --> 0:27:46.359
<v Speaker 2>nitrate crystals, that is, a uranium salt. Fixing that problem

0:27:46.560 --> 0:27:51.600
<v Speaker 2>involved filling several bottles with a concentrated ural nitrate solution.

0:27:52.000 --> 0:27:55.920
<v Speaker 2>As that plug was dissolved and removed. Even though those

0:27:55.960 --> 0:27:59.600
<v Speaker 2>bottles were labeled, someone mistook them for the ones that

0:27:59.640 --> 0:28:03.520
<v Speaker 2>contained the contaminated solvent, which was being mixed in the

0:28:03.600 --> 0:28:08.080
<v Speaker 2>large tank. When the concentrated urinal nitrate solution was dumped

0:28:08.119 --> 0:28:11.520
<v Speaker 2>into the tank, it went critical, causing a blue white

0:28:11.520 --> 0:28:14.840
<v Speaker 2>flash of light and splashing liquid up and out of

0:28:14.880 --> 0:28:18.879
<v Speaker 2>the tank and directly onto the worker. The criticality alarm

0:28:19.000 --> 0:28:22.159
<v Speaker 2>sounded and the worker ran to a nearby emergency shack.

0:28:22.880 --> 0:28:25.760
<v Speaker 2>A supervisor who came in to investigate turned off the

0:28:25.760 --> 0:28:29.160
<v Speaker 2>stirr in the tank, which caused a second criticality as

0:28:29.160 --> 0:28:32.240
<v Speaker 2>the solution changed shape. But no one knew about the

0:28:32.280 --> 0:28:35.280
<v Speaker 2>second criticality at the time because the alarm was still

0:28:35.320 --> 0:28:38.719
<v Speaker 2>going off from the first one. Yet there were multiple

0:28:38.880 --> 0:28:44.600
<v Speaker 2>multiple failures in the process and the safety measures that

0:28:44.640 --> 0:28:48.440
<v Speaker 2>were involved in this incident. The technician who had been

0:28:48.480 --> 0:28:52.200
<v Speaker 2>working the tank during that first criticality died of acute

0:28:52.280 --> 0:28:55.920
<v Speaker 2>radiation exposure two days later after a radiation dose of

0:28:55.960 --> 0:29:00.320
<v Speaker 2>about one hundred gray. The supervisor's dose was somewhere around

0:29:00.440 --> 0:29:04.800
<v Speaker 2>one gray. Other people nearby were also exposed to lesser

0:29:04.920 --> 0:29:08.320
<v Speaker 2>doses as well. A similar incident took place at the

0:29:08.360 --> 0:29:13.600
<v Speaker 2>Mayac Enterprise facility on January second, nineteen fifty eight. Workers

0:29:13.640 --> 0:29:16.040
<v Speaker 2>decided to drain a tank that had been used to

0:29:16.080 --> 0:29:20.440
<v Speaker 2>hold material from criticality experiments faster than it was designed

0:29:20.440 --> 0:29:23.600
<v Speaker 2>to drain. They removed the bolts that were holding the

0:29:23.640 --> 0:29:26.160
<v Speaker 2>tank to the structure and tipped it over to drain

0:29:26.200 --> 0:29:30.160
<v Speaker 2>it into containers. The shape of the material created in

0:29:30.200 --> 0:29:34.160
<v Speaker 2>this process allowed a criticality which ejected a huge amount

0:29:34.200 --> 0:29:37.600
<v Speaker 2>of material from the tank. Three of the four people

0:29:37.600 --> 0:29:40.320
<v Speaker 2>who were doing this task died as a result, and

0:29:40.400 --> 0:29:43.000
<v Speaker 2>the fourth, who was about three meters away at the time,

0:29:43.280 --> 0:29:46.080
<v Speaker 2>was blinded and had long term damage to the systems

0:29:46.080 --> 0:29:48.800
<v Speaker 2>and organs on the left side of her body, which

0:29:48.880 --> 0:29:51.000
<v Speaker 2>was closer to the tank when it went critical.

0:29:51.480 --> 0:29:51.680
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:29:51.720 --> 0:29:55.120
<v Speaker 2>I took notes on so many other incidents as I

0:29:55.200 --> 0:29:59.240
<v Speaker 2>was working on this, and it's really like almost the

0:29:59.280 --> 0:30:02.040
<v Speaker 2>same story over and over and over. A lot of

0:30:02.040 --> 0:30:08.120
<v Speaker 2>it involves containers of the wrong size or shape being

0:30:08.240 --> 0:30:11.240
<v Speaker 2>used when they should not have been. So the good

0:30:11.280 --> 0:30:16.120
<v Speaker 2>news is criticality accidents like this are far less common

0:30:16.160 --> 0:30:19.440
<v Speaker 2>today than they were during the nineteen fifties and sixties.

0:30:20.000 --> 0:30:21.680
<v Speaker 2>Some of this is thanks to the end of the

0:30:21.680 --> 0:30:25.080
<v Speaker 2>Cold War, so the rush to develop and produce nuclear

0:30:25.120 --> 0:30:28.720
<v Speaker 2>weapons meant the United States and the Soviet Union in particular,

0:30:28.800 --> 0:30:31.280
<v Speaker 2>had a lot of facilities that were working with these

0:30:31.400 --> 0:30:36.160
<v Speaker 2>kinds of materials. As we noted earlier, the accumulation of

0:30:36.320 --> 0:30:39.360
<v Speaker 2>enough material to even be able to cause a criticality,

0:30:39.960 --> 0:30:43.240
<v Speaker 2>and an understanding of what it took to prevent a criticality.

0:30:43.320 --> 0:30:46.800
<v Speaker 2>Those two things were happening in tandem. In some cases,

0:30:46.840 --> 0:30:50.760
<v Speaker 2>these facilities were basically working out safety standards as they went,

0:30:51.240 --> 0:30:54.720
<v Speaker 2>and others, though they were disregarding safety standards in order

0:30:54.760 --> 0:30:58.080
<v Speaker 2>to get work done faster or more cheaply. But it's

0:30:58.080 --> 0:31:02.320
<v Speaker 2>also because as these incidents happened, the governments and facilities

0:31:02.360 --> 0:31:06.120
<v Speaker 2>involved got better at designing procedures and protocols to prevent

0:31:06.160 --> 0:31:09.320
<v Speaker 2>them in the future, like instead of having a line

0:31:09.320 --> 0:31:12.000
<v Speaker 2>of containers half of which were meant to be left empty,

0:31:12.720 --> 0:31:15.600
<v Speaker 2>just not having containers arranged in a way that a

0:31:15.640 --> 0:31:20.520
<v Speaker 2>criticality could ever result, or not allowing containers with geometry

0:31:20.560 --> 0:31:23.720
<v Speaker 2>that could allow a criticality into the facility at all.

0:31:24.800 --> 0:31:27.760
<v Speaker 2>As a result, when it comes to criticality accidents during

0:31:27.800 --> 0:31:31.479
<v Speaker 2>processing and handling, the world has gone from multiple fatal

0:31:31.520 --> 0:31:35.640
<v Speaker 2>accidents every year to fewer than one per decade. The

0:31:35.680 --> 0:31:38.600
<v Speaker 2>other side of that progression, though, is that when criticality

0:31:38.640 --> 0:31:42.000
<v Speaker 2>accidents have happened since then, a lot of times they've

0:31:42.000 --> 0:31:45.560
<v Speaker 2>been just totally unexpected. In nineteen ninety nine, there was

0:31:45.560 --> 0:31:49.240
<v Speaker 2>a criticality at the fuel conversion test building at the

0:31:49.320 --> 0:31:55.400
<v Speaker 2>JCO Fabrication Plant Company site and Tokamura, Japan workers were

0:31:55.520 --> 0:31:59.520
<v Speaker 2>using containers with unfavorable geometry because the ones they were

0:31:59.520 --> 0:32:03.360
<v Speaker 2>supposed to be using were more difficult to fill, and

0:32:03.440 --> 0:32:06.600
<v Speaker 2>the criticality accident that resulted from this was ongoing, with

0:32:06.720 --> 0:32:11.080
<v Speaker 2>criticalities recurring over the course of twenty hours. Two of

0:32:11.120 --> 0:32:13.960
<v Speaker 2>the three workers who were nearby when it started died,

0:32:14.320 --> 0:32:18.840
<v Speaker 2>and radiation was released into surrounding neighborhoods around the plant.

0:32:19.320 --> 0:32:22.760
<v Speaker 2>Although this nineteen ninety nine incident was similar to earlier

0:32:22.800 --> 0:32:25.840
<v Speaker 2>ones in that workers had been using the wrong containers

0:32:25.920 --> 0:32:29.440
<v Speaker 2>to make their jobs easier, it was also really an outlier.

0:32:30.160 --> 0:32:33.080
<v Speaker 2>There were so many procedures and standards in place at

0:32:33.120 --> 0:32:36.080
<v Speaker 2>the facility that people didn't think a criticality was even

0:32:36.160 --> 0:32:40.320
<v Speaker 2>possible there. Because of this belief, there weren't even criticality

0:32:40.440 --> 0:32:44.280
<v Speaker 2>alarms at the facility. The sensors that reported something amiss

0:32:44.480 --> 0:32:49.240
<v Speaker 2>were gamma detectors. Yeah, so we're going to have to

0:32:49.280 --> 0:32:53.320
<v Speaker 2>have nuclear facilities doing such work.

0:32:54.960 --> 0:32:57.120
<v Speaker 1>The good news is we're better at it now.

0:32:58.040 --> 0:33:00.800
<v Speaker 2>Glofully, as I was worried on this and I was

0:33:00.840 --> 0:33:03.960
<v Speaker 2>going through all of these, all of these criticality incidents,

0:33:03.960 --> 0:33:06.120
<v Speaker 2>I got to this point where I was like, man,

0:33:06.280 --> 0:33:12.640
<v Speaker 2>what what's an outcome that can be here? Because just

0:33:12.800 --> 0:33:16.760
<v Speaker 2>having one after another of these incidents was it just

0:33:16.840 --> 0:33:20.560
<v Speaker 2>incredibly grim, and it really is like, if you look

0:33:20.720 --> 0:33:24.200
<v Speaker 2>at sort of a timeline, it goes from just a

0:33:24.240 --> 0:33:28.320
<v Speaker 2>block of multiple every year through the fifties and sixties

0:33:28.360 --> 0:33:30.080
<v Speaker 2>to like, we get to the seventies and it's like

0:33:30.200 --> 0:33:33.880
<v Speaker 2>one and then a whole long time and then one.

0:33:35.480 --> 0:33:40.600
<v Speaker 2>So fingers crossed, we are past this as a society

0:33:40.640 --> 0:33:50.280
<v Speaker 2>and a global world culture. Sure, thanks so much for

0:33:50.400 --> 0:33:53.160
<v Speaker 2>joining us on this Saturday. If you'd like to send

0:33:53.240 --> 0:33:57.080
<v Speaker 2>us a note, our email addresses History Podcast at iHeartRadio

0:33:57.240 --> 0:34:00.160
<v Speaker 2>dot com, and you can subscribe to the show on

0:34:00.200 --> 0:34:03.520
<v Speaker 2>the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to

0:34:03.640 --> 0:34:04.640
<v Speaker 2>your favorite shows.