1
00:00:00,840 --> 00:00:04,000
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Markets Podcast. I'm Paul Sweeney, alongside

2
00:00:04,040 --> 00:00:05,240
Speaker 1: my co host Matt Miller.

3
00:00:05,640 --> 00:00:09,600
Speaker 2: Every business day we bring you interviews from CEOs, market pros,

4
00:00:09,720 --> 00:00:13,600
Speaker 2: and Bloomberg experts, along with essential market moven news.

5
00:00:14,160 --> 00:00:17,279
Speaker 1: Find the Bloomberg Markets Podcast on Apple Podcasts or wherever

6
00:00:17,400 --> 00:00:20,480
Speaker 1: you listen to podcasts, and at Bloomberg dot com Slash podcast.

7
00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:22,320
Speaker 1: Let's go right through our next guest, because we want

8
00:00:22,360 --> 00:00:25,160
Speaker 1: to talk Apple. The stock is up about just about

9
00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:27,560
Speaker 1: one percent today. It had tumbled over the last couple

10
00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:30,440
Speaker 1: of days, costing a couple hundred billion dollars in lost

11
00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:34,080
Speaker 1: market caps. Since there are some concerns over iPhones and

12
00:00:34,159 --> 00:00:35,360
Speaker 1: China and all that kind of stuff, so we're going

13
00:00:35,440 --> 00:00:37,159
Speaker 1: to dig right into it with Dan Ives. He's a

14
00:00:37,200 --> 00:00:41,360
Speaker 1: managing director senior equity analyst at Wedbush Securities, joining us

15
00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:44,400
Speaker 1: via the Zoom thing. Hey, Dan, you know there is

16
00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:47,040
Speaker 1: some concern here about Apple and the use of Apple

17
00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:50,000
Speaker 1: products apple phones in China. Can you summarize kind of

18
00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:52,800
Speaker 1: what the issue is and how material of risk is

19
00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:53,760
Speaker 1: it at all to you?

20
00:00:55,360 --> 00:00:57,920
Speaker 3: I mean, Paul, in my opinion, Bar's lot worse than bite.

21
00:00:57,960 --> 00:01:01,000
Speaker 3: I mean, there's essentially been a pseudo ban of government

22
00:01:01,040 --> 00:01:05,080
Speaker 3: employees for Apple in terms of iPhones the last two years. Now,

23
00:01:05,120 --> 00:01:07,400
Speaker 3: maybe there was a little more restrictions here, but we're

24
00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:11,080
Speaker 3: still talking about what we believe five hundred thousand iPhones max.

25
00:01:11,720 --> 00:01:13,600
Speaker 3: Relative to what we believe is gonna be forty five

26
00:01:13,680 --> 00:01:18,520
Speaker 3: million sold in China in the next year. So look,

27
00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:21,760
Speaker 3: I mean, these black Swan types of fears of Apple

28
00:01:21,880 --> 00:01:25,400
Speaker 3: and China just continue to be the issue year of

29
00:01:25,520 --> 00:01:28,320
Speaker 3: the year. But I just believe here, especially when you're

30
00:01:28,440 --> 00:01:32,640
Speaker 3: in Huawei Phone two generations behind, there's no Chinese consumer

31
00:01:33,319 --> 00:01:37,280
Speaker 3: that in my opinion, that unless they're forced, are buying

32
00:01:37,800 --> 00:01:38,959
Speaker 3: that over an iPhone.

33
00:01:39,640 --> 00:01:42,919
Speaker 2: Still, you know, we saw a huge drop in Apple

34
00:01:42,959 --> 00:01:46,960
Speaker 2: shares at the beginning of August on iPhone sales slow

35
00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:50,040
Speaker 2: down concerns. We kind of ticked back up there, but

36
00:01:50,080 --> 00:01:53,680
Speaker 2: we're back down near the near the near the lows

37
00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:54,080
Speaker 2: of the year.

38
00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:55,000
Speaker 4: Not quite there yet.

39
00:01:56,120 --> 00:01:59,040
Speaker 2: They have a chance to rectify that next week when

40
00:01:59,080 --> 00:02:01,080
Speaker 2: they come out with new product. Is it gonna knock

41
00:02:01,080 --> 00:02:03,120
Speaker 2: our socks off? Is Paul Sweeney gonna go out and

42
00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:03,920
Speaker 2: buy a new iPhone?

43
00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:09,080
Speaker 3: I think Paul Sweeney does by buyers new iPhone. In

44
00:02:09,080 --> 00:02:12,920
Speaker 3: my opinion, because look, it keeps coming down to if

45
00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:15,760
Speaker 3: you look at the chip, you look at the camera

46
00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:19,320
Speaker 3: technology combined with the types of promotions we're going to

47
00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:22,800
Speaker 3: see from carriers, especially in the US, and then you

48
00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:24,920
Speaker 3: look at twenty five percent of the install bases not

49
00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:27,919
Speaker 3: upgrade their iPhone of four plus years. I believe it

50
00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:30,240
Speaker 3: relates into something where you're going to see actually an

51
00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:35,239
Speaker 3: uptick in units over iPhone fourteen. And that's why we're

52
00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:41,040
Speaker 3: buyers at the stock here despite haters continuing to heat pricing.

53
00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:44,400
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm probably like a lot of other folks

54
00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:46,760
Speaker 1: and I haven't bought an iPhone or upgrade my iPhone

55
00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:48,239
Speaker 1: in you know, several years.

56
00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:49,600
Speaker 5: Talk about the.

57
00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:51,360
Speaker 2: Price of the eleven, right, Yeah, I have the eleven,

58
00:02:51,480 --> 00:02:53,120
Speaker 2: so that's they're coming out with the fifteen.

59
00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:55,280
Speaker 5: So that kind of kind of tells you where it's at.

60
00:02:55,400 --> 00:02:57,160
Speaker 1: So what kind of pricing power does Apple have in

61
00:02:57,200 --> 00:02:59,200
Speaker 1: this market, which, at least here in the US, is

62
00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:00,960
Speaker 1: I guess to fully penetrate it.

63
00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:04,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, look, we expect for the first time

64
00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:06,840
Speaker 3: in years, the base prices will be up about one

65
00:03:06,919 --> 00:03:10,600
Speaker 3: hundred dollars. When you look at iPhone pro as well

66
00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:14,440
Speaker 3: as on the Promax, and this is something where we

67
00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:17,880
Speaker 3: expect minimal churn because it just keeps coming down to

68
00:03:18,760 --> 00:03:22,200
Speaker 3: it is the gold standard phone across the world, which

69
00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:24,800
Speaker 3: is why I believe, I know you talk about Luberg

70
00:03:24,880 --> 00:03:27,800
Speaker 3: that I believe at the end of this year, the

71
00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:31,520
Speaker 3: smartphone leader globally will be Apple. I think they continue

72
00:03:31,560 --> 00:03:34,800
Speaker 3: to gain more and more share in China, and despite

73
00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:37,720
Speaker 3: a lot of the noise with Huawei and obviously Cotton's

74
00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:41,000
Speaker 3: cold tech war, it also comes down to it's just

75
00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:43,240
Speaker 3: the best phone out there, and I think they're years ahead.

76
00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:47,440
Speaker 2: It annoys me when somebody in my group chat has

77
00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:50,240
Speaker 2: an Android phone. Oh I know, it's the worst, Yeah,

78
00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:52,880
Speaker 2: green bubble, and then if they like a comment, it

79
00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:54,200
Speaker 2: ends like a new text.

80
00:03:54,360 --> 00:03:56,840
Speaker 1: And Yeah, my son, my oldest son is one of

81
00:03:56,880 --> 00:03:58,880
Speaker 1: those people, and he won't go to iPhone, so of

82
00:03:58,880 --> 00:04:01,119
Speaker 1: course he's excluded from all one of our little.

83
00:04:00,880 --> 00:04:01,960
Speaker 5: Existing my dad.

84
00:04:02,280 --> 00:04:04,480
Speaker 2: My dad won't go to iPhone, so we knock him

85
00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:05,480
Speaker 2: out of the family chest.

86
00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:07,200
Speaker 5: Yeah exactly, all right.

87
00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:10,760
Speaker 2: So, Dan, Apple, I guess you're you think is a

88
00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:12,000
Speaker 2: streaming buy at this level.

89
00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:16,160
Speaker 3: I think it's a table pounder, especially what's happened over

90
00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:19,160
Speaker 3: the last week and I get it. You know, bears

91
00:04:19,200 --> 00:04:21,880
Speaker 3: come out of hibernation mood. You know, obviously missed a

92
00:04:21,960 --> 00:04:24,440
Speaker 3: huge run here. This could be at the quote unquote

93
00:04:24,440 --> 00:04:27,120
Speaker 3: black Swan moment. We just don't see it. I mean,

94
00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:30,560
Speaker 3: coming from what we see from a unit perspective in

95
00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:33,360
Speaker 3: terms of our trips to Asia over the last called

96
00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:36,000
Speaker 3: six to nine months. So we're buyers here and I

97
00:04:36,040 --> 00:04:38,599
Speaker 3: continue to things. You know, as we've talked about, the

98
00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:42,080
Speaker 3: new tech bull market is here and I think tech

99
00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:43,160
Speaker 3: rips into your end.

100
00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:46,760
Speaker 5: Hey, Dan, what is you know?

101
00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:49,200
Speaker 1: I know Tim Cook was recently over in trying to

102
00:04:49,240 --> 00:04:51,800
Speaker 1: trying to work his diplomatic magic here.

103
00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:53,960
Speaker 5: What is I mean? China?

104
00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:57,400
Speaker 1: Apple can't escape China both as a supply chain provider

105
00:04:57,440 --> 00:05:00,520
Speaker 1: as well as a huge end market. What do you

106
00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:02,560
Speaker 1: hear from Cupertino as to kind of their longer term

107
00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:04,760
Speaker 1: strategy about China here? How concerned are they?

108
00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:06,120
Speaker 6: Yeah?

109
00:05:06,120 --> 00:05:10,000
Speaker 3: It's twenty percent politician, eighty percent CEO right in terms

110
00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:13,080
Speaker 3: of Cook, and he's been able to navigate China basically

111
00:05:13,080 --> 00:05:15,080
Speaker 3: as well as anyone out the obvious along with Musk

112
00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:19,000
Speaker 3: in terms of US star warts. Look there, when you

113
00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:21,640
Speaker 3: look at fox Con the supply chain, I mean They're

114
00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:25,679
Speaker 3: essentially the number one employer in China from a private

115
00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:28,800
Speaker 3: perspective in all of the country, right, so they are

116
00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:32,440
Speaker 3: so important from a production perspective, but it is it's

117
00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:35,040
Speaker 3: a game of high stakes poker. They know that they

118
00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:37,640
Speaker 3: can move things to Vietnamin and India. Obviously that will

119
00:05:37,680 --> 00:05:41,200
Speaker 3: be painful to do. China obviously is trying to play

120
00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:43,800
Speaker 3: a poker game as well. But it comes down to

121
00:05:43,839 --> 00:05:46,719
Speaker 3: the hearts and lungs of the growth story in Cup

122
00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:49,599
Speaker 3: Patino are in China. That's where the sharegions have been.

123
00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:52,159
Speaker 3: And that's why there's so much nervousness over the last

124
00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:56,920
Speaker 3: week because this kind of dusts off what's always been

125
00:05:57,000 --> 00:05:59,560
Speaker 3: that sort of ghost that you're battling when it comes

126
00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:00,559
Speaker 3: to Apple in China.

127
00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:05,320
Speaker 2: I mean, navigating China's pretty easy. You go over there,

128
00:06:05,839 --> 00:06:09,040
Speaker 2: you kiss the ring, you never say anything bad about China,

129
00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:12,400
Speaker 2: and you put factories there and employee tens of thousands

130
00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:12,800
Speaker 2: of people.

131
00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:14,000
Speaker 5: That's the strategy.

132
00:06:14,960 --> 00:06:16,120
Speaker 4: I could do it too.

133
00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:20,080
Speaker 2: The problem is you have to kind of cowtow to

134
00:06:20,480 --> 00:06:24,200
Speaker 2: she does that bite them in the butt at all.

135
00:06:24,279 --> 00:06:26,719
Speaker 2: I mean, it doesn't seem to have hurt their image

136
00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:29,039
Speaker 2: in the US.

137
00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:33,359
Speaker 3: Because it comes down to you're talking about the biggest

138
00:06:33,400 --> 00:06:37,320
Speaker 3: technology and consumer brand in the world, and if you

139
00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:41,359
Speaker 3: like three thousand dollar iPhones, then we should start producing

140
00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:44,159
Speaker 3: them in New Jersey. Yeah, But if you like thousand

141
00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:47,120
Speaker 3: dollar iPhones, they're going to continue being China and look,

142
00:06:47,400 --> 00:06:50,480
Speaker 3: and it just comes down to like that, right now,

143
00:06:50,640 --> 00:06:53,320
Speaker 3: that web in terms of the supply chain, that's been

144
00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:56,320
Speaker 3: a huge part of Apple success. But it goes back to,

145
00:06:56,400 --> 00:06:59,760
Speaker 3: like from the trillion to three trillion, many of just

146
00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:03,000
Speaker 3: that China was going to continue to be the risk

147
00:07:03,279 --> 00:07:06,680
Speaker 3: for Apple, but ultimately it's actually been the trophy case,

148
00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:09,560
Speaker 3: both from a demand perspective as well as it comes

149
00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:13,000
Speaker 3: to production. And that's why, like Cooper Tino continues to

150
00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:15,640
Speaker 3: play Chush, others play checkers, and this is no different.

151
00:07:15,960 --> 00:07:18,960
Speaker 3: They see these chess moves and I think we'll navigate

152
00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:23,000
Speaker 3: it very contained. Despite many yell fire in a crowd theater.

153
00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:26,080
Speaker 1: Hey Dan, thirty seconds left. What's your other than Apple?

154
00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:27,080
Speaker 1: What's your top pick?

155
00:07:29,040 --> 00:07:31,560
Speaker 3: I mean to me, it's Microsoft here because of what

156
00:07:31,600 --> 00:07:35,040
Speaker 3: I've used, just the overall cloud and AI opportunity. I

157
00:07:35,080 --> 00:07:38,440
Speaker 3: think we are now starting to actually see numbers over

158
00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:40,920
Speaker 3: the next six to nine months this AI tidal wave

159
00:07:40,920 --> 00:07:43,760
Speaker 3: of playing out and of course tasslo on evs that

160
00:07:43,840 --> 00:07:46,080
Speaker 3: continues to be the play there. And so I look,

161
00:07:46,120 --> 00:07:49,160
Speaker 3: this is, in my opinion, suppourth industrial revolution playing out

162
00:07:49,760 --> 00:07:52,120
Speaker 3: in the weft lane of technology innovation.

163
00:07:52,640 --> 00:07:54,840
Speaker 5: All right, Dan, thanks so much for joining us. Appreciate it.

164
00:07:55,120 --> 00:07:57,440
Speaker 1: Good luck to this Penn state Nili Lances. They played

165
00:07:57,480 --> 00:08:00,760
Speaker 1: the mighty Blue Hens of Delaware.

166
00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:01,400
Speaker 5: So it's going to be tough.

167
00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:01,800
Speaker 6: Dan.

168
00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:05,600
Speaker 1: I's managing director, senior equity analysts for Webush Securities.

169
00:08:05,640 --> 00:08:09,720
Speaker 6: There you're listening to the team Ken's are live program

170
00:08:09,840 --> 00:08:13,800
Speaker 6: Bloomberg Markets weekdays at ten am Eastern on Bloomberg dot com,

171
00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:17,040
Speaker 6: the iHeartRadio app and the Bloomberg Business app, or listen

172
00:08:17,080 --> 00:08:19,200
Speaker 6: on demand wherever you get your podcasts.

173
00:08:21,040 --> 00:08:22,760
Speaker 5: Will Ryan, he's a chief executive officer.

174
00:08:22,800 --> 00:08:25,320
Speaker 1: He's also talking about Aston Martins too, so I'm kind

175
00:08:25,320 --> 00:08:27,440
Speaker 1: of stuck in the middle between these two knuckleheads.

176
00:08:27,800 --> 00:08:30,080
Speaker 5: He's a chief executive officer. Granted chairs advisors.

177
00:08:30,120 --> 00:08:32,559
Speaker 1: We like to talk to Will about ETFs and kind

178
00:08:32,559 --> 00:08:36,440
Speaker 1: of where is he seeing demand for ETFs? And Will

179
00:08:36,440 --> 00:08:38,400
Speaker 1: thanks for joining us here. Appreciate you coming into our

180
00:08:38,400 --> 00:08:42,839
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Interactive Broker studio Single stock ETFs. What are you

181
00:08:42,840 --> 00:08:44,640
Speaker 1: guys doing with single stock ETFs?

182
00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:47,600
Speaker 7: Yeah, this has really been the big growth area for

183
00:08:47,720 --> 00:08:50,080
Speaker 7: US as a business, but I think a new category

184
00:08:50,160 --> 00:08:52,440
Speaker 7: for the market over the last year. So we've just

185
00:08:52,480 --> 00:08:56,920
Speaker 7: gone through a year of the first single stock ETFs

186
00:08:57,679 --> 00:09:01,360
Speaker 7: and very simply they provide leverage tip although if you're

187
00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:05,280
Speaker 7: an inverse one it's not necessarily leveraged. But they provide

188
00:09:05,320 --> 00:09:08,839
Speaker 7: exposure to single companies, so very popular companies such as

189
00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:14,320
Speaker 7: Tesla or Nvidia, and provide people prepackaged leverage to those companies.

190
00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:17,880
Speaker 1: So an example would be granted shares one point five

191
00:09:18,280 --> 00:09:21,240
Speaker 1: x short TSL daily ETF.

192
00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:22,040
Speaker 5: What does that do?

193
00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:26,400
Speaker 7: Yeah, so that provides one and a half times short exposure,

194
00:09:26,440 --> 00:09:29,319
Speaker 7: so leverage short exposure to the daily price of Tesla

195
00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:33,240
Speaker 7: and then TSLR, which is the sort of corresponding one.

196
00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:37,280
Speaker 7: That's the highest leveraged ETF you can get on Tesla.

197
00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:40,439
Speaker 7: So one point seventy five times levered to Tesla.

198
00:09:41,200 --> 00:09:41,560
Speaker 8: Wow.

199
00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:43,440
Speaker 5: I mean that that's a way to play it. So

200
00:09:43,440 --> 00:09:45,920
Speaker 5: what's the risk to you guys to offering that leverage.

201
00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:48,920
Speaker 7: It's not so much a risk to us. I mean

202
00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:53,000
Speaker 7: the risk in terms of managing it is really that

203
00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:56,520
Speaker 7: you get outsize moves clearly because you have leverage. So

204
00:09:56,559 --> 00:09:59,600
Speaker 7: if the if the stock price falls, our assets under

205
00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:03,040
Speaker 7: management and full and clearly were levered to the market.

206
00:10:03,160 --> 00:10:05,360
Speaker 7: So all things been equal, you know we lose, we

207
00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:09,200
Speaker 7: lose more money. But the idea is that, you know,

208
00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:12,400
Speaker 7: these are very popular trading vehicles. We have nv d L,

209
00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:14,679
Speaker 7: which has been probably the star of the show this year,

210
00:10:14,720 --> 00:10:17,200
Speaker 7: which is the one point five times leverage in VideA,

211
00:10:17,720 --> 00:10:19,880
Speaker 7: and so you can imagine since the beginning of the year,

212
00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:24,559
Speaker 7: people have gone crazy for anything AI, anything in video,

213
00:10:25,200 --> 00:10:29,199
Speaker 7: and the nvd L ETF has just been a rock

214
00:10:29,240 --> 00:10:32,080
Speaker 7: star for us this year. So I think it's it's

215
00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:34,559
Speaker 7: really just a category that's growing and there's a lot

216
00:10:34,559 --> 00:10:36,600
Speaker 7: of demand for both the long and the short side

217
00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:37,960
Speaker 7: with some of these popular names.

218
00:10:38,160 --> 00:10:43,079
Speaker 4: How do you so, I that's up only three and

219
00:10:43,120 --> 00:10:44,400
Speaker 4: ninety two exactly.

220
00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:49,240
Speaker 2: I on Mondays, I have an et ETF show, so

221
00:10:49,280 --> 00:10:51,080
Speaker 2: I'm looking at ETFs all the time, and.

222
00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:53,280
Speaker 5: She gets to leave this show early to go prepare for.

223
00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:56,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, I have to, so, but you know, expens ytios

224
00:10:56,880 --> 00:10:59,760
Speaker 2: are something I look at quite often and typically one

225
00:10:59,800 --> 00:11:02,760
Speaker 2: point one percent, which is what you charge on the

226
00:11:03,679 --> 00:11:06,920
Speaker 2: short short amd.

227
00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:10,160
Speaker 4: ETF or the NVDL is.

228
00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:13,360
Speaker 2: Typically that's a relatively high expense ratio, but if you're

229
00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:17,200
Speaker 2: going short, it seems low. How can you afford to

230
00:11:17,320 --> 00:11:19,280
Speaker 2: charge that? When you do, you need to get the

231
00:11:19,280 --> 00:11:21,960
Speaker 2: borrow or how do you get how do you structure

232
00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:22,640
Speaker 2: the trades?

233
00:11:22,760 --> 00:11:25,560
Speaker 7: Yeah, so that's that's in the price. But these are

234
00:11:25,600 --> 00:11:28,320
Speaker 7: designed to be held for short periods of time, so

235
00:11:28,360 --> 00:11:30,920
Speaker 7: they're actually super cheap when you think about it. We

236
00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:34,600
Speaker 7: have to display an expense ratio just like everybody else

237
00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:37,160
Speaker 7: on an annual basis. So the actual fee we charge

238
00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:40,200
Speaker 7: is ninety nine basis points typically, but that's for if

239
00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:42,760
Speaker 7: you held it for three hundred and sixty five days. Now,

240
00:11:42,800 --> 00:11:45,319
Speaker 7: the average person is probably held holding these for just

241
00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:48,560
Speaker 7: a couple of days or at least, you know, a

242
00:11:48,600 --> 00:11:51,520
Speaker 7: short period of time, so the fee on a pro

243
00:11:51,679 --> 00:11:55,120
Speaker 7: rated basis that they pay is minuscule. And indeed, if

244
00:11:55,120 --> 00:11:56,760
Speaker 7: people are trading, which you get a lot of these

245
00:11:56,800 --> 00:12:00,640
Speaker 7: algorithmic traders quant shops, you know on this they are

246
00:12:00,679 --> 00:12:04,760
Speaker 7: probably intra day they pay nothing, just the spread. So

247
00:12:04,800 --> 00:12:07,120
Speaker 7: it's an incredibly efficient vehicle if you want to trade.

248
00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:10,120
Speaker 7: And to your point, Matt I mean when you look

249
00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:12,880
Speaker 7: at the shorts, I mean, this is incredibly attractive for

250
00:12:12,920 --> 00:12:14,959
Speaker 7: people because one of the biggest things is majority of

251
00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:18,319
Speaker 7: people can't go short number one, but number two they

252
00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:21,240
Speaker 7: can't find the borrow, and they do find the borrow.

253
00:12:21,360 --> 00:12:23,360
Speaker 7: The borow fees for some of these stops got to

254
00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:24,800
Speaker 7: be incredibly high, exactly.

255
00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:27,840
Speaker 2: I'd imagine for Tesla, it's not cheap because highly a

256
00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:29,119
Speaker 2: popular stock.

257
00:12:28,880 --> 00:12:31,679
Speaker 7: To short exactly, so they can be huge expensive.

258
00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:34,760
Speaker 1: I mean you seem to like the thing I like

259
00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:36,360
Speaker 1: about it? Where you guys, do you seem to find

260
00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:40,480
Speaker 1: the hot story like nvidio slash ai. How quickly can

261
00:12:40,480 --> 00:12:44,719
Speaker 1: you get an ETF from inception to in the market.

262
00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:49,839
Speaker 7: It very much depends so providing it's following the kind

263
00:12:49,880 --> 00:12:53,640
Speaker 7: of basic rule set which is set by the SEC.

264
00:12:54,400 --> 00:12:57,600
Speaker 7: It's seventy five days from when you file the registration

265
00:12:57,679 --> 00:13:00,960
Speaker 7: statement to getting it out. That's the the latest, if

266
00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:03,160
Speaker 7: you will, I guess they could have, you know, technically

267
00:13:04,040 --> 00:13:07,800
Speaker 7: grant you effectiveness sooner than that. Where you have an

268
00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:10,840
Speaker 7: issue is when you step outside of that standardized rule set.

269
00:13:10,920 --> 00:13:13,960
Speaker 7: So for example, the crypto ETFs or the bitcoin ETFs

270
00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:17,000
Speaker 7: that everybody talks about, you know, when you're outside of

271
00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:20,000
Speaker 7: that standardized rule set, then you could be looking at

272
00:13:20,120 --> 00:13:21,640
Speaker 7: years to get approval.

273
00:13:21,679 --> 00:13:23,960
Speaker 2: Well, do they make it more difficult for leveraged dtfs

274
00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:26,760
Speaker 2: for single stock ETF, for short ETF because those are

275
00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:30,800
Speaker 2: also you know that some people might criticize them, especially

276
00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:32,360
Speaker 2: regulatory watchdogs.

277
00:13:32,640 --> 00:13:35,640
Speaker 7: Yeah, no, it's not more difficult because they're in the

278
00:13:35,679 --> 00:13:38,400
Speaker 7: standardized rule set. And remember, leverage dtfs have been around

279
00:13:38,480 --> 00:13:41,640
Speaker 7: for well over a decade and so you get leverage

280
00:13:41,679 --> 00:13:45,880
Speaker 7: dtfs on broad equity indices, on broad fixed inco indices,

281
00:13:45,920 --> 00:13:50,000
Speaker 7: on commodity indices, and individual commodities. So single stocks is

282
00:13:50,040 --> 00:13:53,760
Speaker 7: really just a continuation of an already big and successful category.

283
00:13:54,600 --> 00:13:57,880
Speaker 5: What's next for you guys in terms of new ETFs coming.

284
00:13:57,920 --> 00:14:01,319
Speaker 7: Yeah, for us, I think more single stock products is

285
00:14:01,640 --> 00:14:04,439
Speaker 7: where we're seeing the growth. We're seeing the action in

286
00:14:04,480 --> 00:14:06,360
Speaker 7: the market. You know, this is this is almost like

287
00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:10,160
Speaker 7: a perfect market environment for these products because it's very volatile.

288
00:14:10,679 --> 00:14:15,080
Speaker 7: People really don't know how to trade this market. In

289
00:14:15,080 --> 00:14:17,880
Speaker 7: other words, don't have high conviction that the market's going

290
00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:21,080
Speaker 7: massively up in one direction or massively down in the direction.

291
00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:23,880
Speaker 7: So you see a lot of volatility in these names,

292
00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:27,480
Speaker 7: and that's what you know, traders active investors really like

293
00:14:27,520 --> 00:14:29,880
Speaker 7: and that's why they love these leverage single stocks.

294
00:14:30,520 --> 00:14:35,600
Speaker 2: Does the rising rate environment affect your day to day

295
00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:36,920
Speaker 2: work at all.

296
00:14:38,120 --> 00:14:41,400
Speaker 7: For these products, I would have to say it's almost

297
00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:45,080
Speaker 7: a benefit because people want to try and make more

298
00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:49,920
Speaker 7: money in a world where the returns by definition you know,

299
00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:53,240
Speaker 7: are less because of the high rates. So it works well.

300
00:14:53,280 --> 00:14:54,880
Speaker 7: But for some of our other products, you know, we

301
00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:59,200
Speaker 7: have income products clear that were even though our product hips,

302
00:14:59,240 --> 00:15:02,600
Speaker 7: for example, about ten percent per annum. That was awesome

303
00:15:02,880 --> 00:15:06,040
Speaker 7: when yields were zero, but now yields are a lot higher.

304
00:15:06,240 --> 00:15:09,640
Speaker 7: It's sort of cutting half. It's still attractive product. It's

305
00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:12,960
Speaker 7: just you know, that's harder environment for those income products.

306
00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:15,680
Speaker 2: But it doesn't change like the data day mechanics of

307
00:15:15,720 --> 00:15:16,800
Speaker 2: creation and redemption.

308
00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:19,160
Speaker 8: No, No. Interesting.

309
00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:22,760
Speaker 2: I always find that kind of that kind of detail

310
00:15:22,920 --> 00:15:25,560
Speaker 2: really fascinating because it's something that you don't have to

311
00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:27,880
Speaker 2: understand to trade ETFs, and most people don't.

312
00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:29,440
Speaker 7: Well what it does do Matt, I mean, this is

313
00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:32,560
Speaker 7: probably a bit of inside baseball, but I do think

314
00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:35,520
Speaker 7: that the environment for getting seed capital for bringing ETFs

315
00:15:35,560 --> 00:15:38,680
Speaker 7: to launch has gotten harder because seed capital is typically

316
00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:41,400
Speaker 7: given to you by a third party firm, typically a

317
00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:44,680
Speaker 7: market maker or a broker, so their financing costs have

318
00:15:44,720 --> 00:15:47,360
Speaker 7: gone up for the cost of them providing that seed

319
00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:49,400
Speaker 7: capital that you has gone up, so that makes it

320
00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:50,160
Speaker 7: more challenging.

321
00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:52,520
Speaker 2: How long will you I mean, if you bring a

322
00:15:52,520 --> 00:15:56,920
Speaker 2: new product to market, it takes a while to get

323
00:15:56,960 --> 00:16:01,520
Speaker 2: inflows assets under management. Well, how long will you go

324
00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:03,400
Speaker 2: before you say, Okay, this is a hit or this

325
00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:04,720
Speaker 2: is a miss, and we're going to shut it down.

326
00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:08,240
Speaker 7: I think nowadays we're much more ruthless about that than

327
00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:10,520
Speaker 7: perhaps we were a few years ago, and I think

328
00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:13,360
Speaker 7: the taboo around shutting products has really gone.

329
00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:16,560
Speaker 4: Away, and so that large totally no one cares so exactly.

330
00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:19,680
Speaker 7: So I think a year maximum will probably go before

331
00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:22,600
Speaker 7: making a call if something's taken or not. And this market,

332
00:16:22,640 --> 00:16:25,440
Speaker 7: I think is a good market to do that, because

333
00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:28,480
Speaker 7: people have gotten so used to ETFs that I think

334
00:16:28,520 --> 00:16:30,720
Speaker 7: you can tell fairly quickly if something's going to take

335
00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:31,000
Speaker 7: or not.

336
00:16:31,160 --> 00:16:33,680
Speaker 5: Yep, hey, well thanks so much for joining us.

337
00:16:33,680 --> 00:16:33,920
Speaker 8: Again.

338
00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:36,000
Speaker 1: Has always loved check it in with you, will Ryan.

339
00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:39,680
Speaker 1: He's the chief executive officer at Granted Chairs Advisors, LLC.

340
00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:42,640
Speaker 5: Talking ETF, you're listening to the tape.

341
00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:46,160
Speaker 6: Catch a live program Bloomberg Markets weekdays at ten am

342
00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:50,200
Speaker 6: Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the tune in app, Bloomberg dot Com, and.

343
00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:51,480
Speaker 8: The Bloomberg Business App.

344
00:16:51,520 --> 00:16:54,320
Speaker 6: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our

345
00:16:54,360 --> 00:16:58,760
Speaker 6: flagship New York station, Just say Alexa Play Bloomberg eleven thirty.

346
00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:00,920
Speaker 5: Have some M and A news.

347
00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:04,159
Speaker 1: Today, Kroger and Albertson's agreed to sell four hundred and

348
00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:09,440
Speaker 1: thirteen stores to CNS wholesale Grocers in a divestiture designed

349
00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:13,040
Speaker 1: to help win antitrust approval for their twenty four point

350
00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:15,199
Speaker 1: six billion dollar merger. Let's break that down with a

351
00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:18,960
Speaker 1: couple real pros here, Jenri and Jen bartashis to both

352
00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:22,520
Speaker 1: the Bloomberg Intelligence Generally, she covers all the antitrust stuff.

353
00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:26,880
Speaker 1: For Bloomberg Intelligence generally is our retail anels covering the supermarkets.

354
00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:29,359
Speaker 1: And they join us here, Jenri, Let's start with you

355
00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:32,520
Speaker 1: here in our Bloomberg Interactive Broker studio. Is this enough

356
00:17:32,760 --> 00:17:33,600
Speaker 1: for the regulators?

357
00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:36,360
Speaker 9: You know, I'm not so sure. I'll say, I think this.

358
00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:38,480
Speaker 5: Will exactly take a tough views I.

359
00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:40,480
Speaker 9: Do, you know, I'm just skeptical. Look at what the

360
00:17:40,560 --> 00:17:42,520
Speaker 9: ftc has been doing for the last couple of years.

361
00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:44,480
Speaker 9: And the line they drew in the sand. You know,

362
00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:46,639
Speaker 9: when this administration came in, they said, you know what,

363
00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:49,520
Speaker 9: we're not going to settle deals that have problems anymore

364
00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:51,879
Speaker 9: because we've been doing that for forty years and it

365
00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:54,680
Speaker 9: hasn't worked. It's left us with markets that are too concentrated.

366
00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:56,800
Speaker 9: So we have to take a different approach. And they've

367
00:17:56,840 --> 00:17:59,520
Speaker 9: done that. They've taken a different approach even where companies

368
00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:02,400
Speaker 9: offer up what I think is a pretty fulsome agreement

369
00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:06,440
Speaker 9: to settle this matter. But here's the thing, they've been

370
00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:09,320
Speaker 9: losing in court because the judges look at these divestiture

371
00:18:09,359 --> 00:18:12,359
Speaker 9: agreements and the commitments that the companies are willing to make,

372
00:18:12,359 --> 00:18:14,879
Speaker 9: and they say, look, FDC, this is good enough to

373
00:18:15,600 --> 00:18:18,200
Speaker 9: fix these problems that you've outlined. And I think that's

374
00:18:18,240 --> 00:18:20,720
Speaker 9: what's going to happen here. I think even if the

375
00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:24,240
Speaker 9: FTC doesn't like this matter, they think theyre groceries. It's

376
00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:27,760
Speaker 9: food prices, it's sensitive to consumers. We have a problem

377
00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:31,240
Speaker 9: with this. The chair Lenacon has written extensively about having

378
00:18:31,280 --> 00:18:34,720
Speaker 9: issues with grocery mergers and thinking they're problematic. But I

379
00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:37,760
Speaker 9: think when these two companies exactly get that and go

380
00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:40,159
Speaker 9: into court with this agreement, they have a really good

381
00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:41,320
Speaker 9: shot at winning in court.

382
00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:45,280
Speaker 2: Jen Bartasha's jump in here and tell us what investors

383
00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:47,439
Speaker 2: view of this deal is.

384
00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:51,879
Speaker 10: Well, you know, obviously tailing off of what Jen just said,

385
00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:54,600
Speaker 10: you know, I think ultimately this deal will go through.

386
00:18:55,480 --> 00:18:58,199
Speaker 10: You know, there are a lot of things that can happen,

387
00:18:58,320 --> 00:19:02,280
Speaker 10: you know, with a combined Kroger and Albertson's entity that

388
00:19:02,280 --> 00:19:05,320
Speaker 10: that ultimately could be good for the industry. But one

389
00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:08,000
Speaker 10: of the things I think is interesting about CNS as

390
00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:10,840
Speaker 10: a as a buyer in the situation is that their

391
00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:13,800
Speaker 10: primary businesses as a wholesaler. It's not as a retailer.

392
00:19:14,560 --> 00:19:17,679
Speaker 10: They do own Grand a couple of Grand Union stores,

393
00:19:17,720 --> 00:19:21,040
Speaker 10: and they own Pigley Wiggly Midwest, but those are larger,

394
00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:26,160
Speaker 10: but those are largely franchised operations. And when you look

395
00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:30,840
Speaker 10: at the track record of wholesalers that also operate retail

396
00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:34,560
Speaker 10: operate retail stores, there's not the greatest track record there.

397
00:19:34,840 --> 00:19:36,800
Speaker 10: So to me, that could be one area where the

398
00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:39,960
Speaker 10: FTC might push back on CNS as a as a buyer,

399
00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:42,800
Speaker 10: only in that you know, Super Value was a was

400
00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:45,960
Speaker 10: a distributor. They sold off the Shoppers chain that they

401
00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:48,680
Speaker 10: had acquired. United Natural Has you know, had tried to

402
00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:51,800
Speaker 10: sell off the residual part of the cub Foods chain

403
00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:56,359
Speaker 10: in Chicago and Spartan Nash only operates a handful of

404
00:19:56,359 --> 00:19:59,520
Speaker 10: of retail stores as well. And so that to me

405
00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:01,840
Speaker 10: is is one potential area of risk. You know, as

406
00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:05,520
Speaker 10: the FTC evaluates this. Granted, CNS has the balance sheet,

407
00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:10,080
Speaker 10: they have the strength there to finance such a deal,

408
00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:12,960
Speaker 10: but they're not actually known as an operator.

409
00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:16,680
Speaker 1: Interesting, so Jenry, is that would the FTC do? They

410
00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:18,880
Speaker 1: typically look at who the buyer is and whether that's

411
00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:19,720
Speaker 1: a good buyer.

412
00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:23,240
Speaker 9: Absolutely, that's half of the evaluation. First, the assets to

413
00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:25,520
Speaker 9: be divested in the buyer. So here's what I have

414
00:20:25,560 --> 00:20:28,240
Speaker 9: to say about CNS. It does sound like an odd buyer.

415
00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:32,399
Speaker 9: But this FTC in twenty twenty one approved the merger

416
00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:35,040
Speaker 9: of Price Chopper in Tops and they had to divest

417
00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:37,959
Speaker 9: a number of stores and the buyer was CNS, and

418
00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:40,359
Speaker 9: the FTC approved that buyer. Now, right now, we have

419
00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:43,199
Speaker 9: three commissioners. Two of the three voted yes on that

420
00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:46,439
Speaker 9: deal back in twenty twenty one, So it seems at

421
00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:49,920
Speaker 9: least at that time, they evaluated CNS for that specific

422
00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:53,080
Speaker 9: deal in those specific stores and found it to be sufficient.

423
00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:56,200
Speaker 9: I think this is much larger scale, and it also

424
00:20:56,240 --> 00:20:58,480
Speaker 9: remains to be seen how did CNS do with those

425
00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:01,280
Speaker 9: stores that they acquired. The FDC will be looking at

426
00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:03,000
Speaker 9: that and they're going to have to show that they

427
00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:04,680
Speaker 9: were able to be viable competitors.

428
00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:09,080
Speaker 1: Hey, Jem bartashis from the talk to us about the

429
00:21:09,119 --> 00:21:12,479
Speaker 1: supermarket business in general. I mean, again, I'm just amazed

430
00:21:12,520 --> 00:21:16,879
Speaker 1: that Walmart. I'm sorry, you know, Walmart's just the biggest

431
00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:18,960
Speaker 1: grocery store chain in the US.

432
00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:20,600
Speaker 5: That just kind of blows me away every time you

433
00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:21,400
Speaker 5: mentioned that to us.

434
00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:24,320
Speaker 1: Talk to us about this merger in the context of

435
00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:26,800
Speaker 1: the industry overall, is that going to make a big,

436
00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:27,600
Speaker 1: big change.

437
00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:30,440
Speaker 10: Well, what it does is it takes the number two

438
00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:33,680
Speaker 10: and the number three sized retailers and combines them into

439
00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:37,720
Speaker 10: an entity, A combined Kroger Albertson's. Gives them a lot

440
00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:41,000
Speaker 10: more in terms of purchasing power and theoretically, you know, well,

441
00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:44,360
Speaker 10: I mean, Walmart does dominate the US grocery landscape by

442
00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:47,199
Speaker 10: far in terms of market share and in terms of

443
00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:50,600
Speaker 10: being the largest retailer So if a combined entity between

444
00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:55,720
Speaker 10: Albertson's and Kroger compete, can compete more effectively against Walmart,

445
00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:58,119
Speaker 10: that's actually not a bad thing for the industry as

446
00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:01,040
Speaker 10: a whole. They're you know, they're it's been pushedback about

447
00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:05,200
Speaker 10: the overall consolidation of the industry, but you know, it

448
00:22:05,560 --> 00:22:08,520
Speaker 10: could actually, you know, enable these companies to be even

449
00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:11,960
Speaker 10: more competitive against the largest, the largest player out there.

450
00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:16,760
Speaker 4: Paul, have you seen Dope Sick No or Painkiller No?

451
00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:18,840
Speaker 4: These are two series.

452
00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:22,640
Speaker 2: I think Netflix and HBO. I can't remember who, but anyway,

453
00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:30,280
Speaker 2: they are touching, touching in an extraordinary way. You know,

454
00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:33,200
Speaker 2: I knew that opioid addiction was a problem, and I've

455
00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:35,360
Speaker 2: been reading the stories and headlines just like everybody else,

456
00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:37,880
Speaker 2: but this like really hits home when you watch these

457
00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:42,920
Speaker 2: shows because it's so hardcore. Kroger has agreed to one

458
00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:48,800
Speaker 2: point two billion dollar settlement for its role in distributing

459
00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:56,280
Speaker 2: these extremely damaging drugs. Okay, Jenry, I was listening to

460
00:22:56,320 --> 00:23:00,280
Speaker 2: the news this morning and they said this does not

461
00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:03,400
Speaker 2: mean that they admit any wrongdoing.

462
00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:06,920
Speaker 4: Have you ever thought to pay one.

463
00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:10,399
Speaker 2: Point two billion dollars without admitting any wrongdoing? Isn't the

464
00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:14,640
Speaker 2: payment itself and admission of extreme wrongdoing.

465
00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:17,399
Speaker 9: Well, you know, people with common sense and look at

466
00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:20,840
Speaker 9: these things logically would exactly think that yes. But technically,

467
00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:23,320
Speaker 9: with settlements you never have to admit to the wrongdoing.

468
00:23:23,359 --> 00:23:25,600
Speaker 9: You're saying, hey, it's worth it for us to pay

469
00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:27,639
Speaker 9: this money just to get this off our back, to

470
00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:30,760
Speaker 9: move on, to move forward, get rid of litigation, put

471
00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:33,280
Speaker 9: it behind us. We're putting resources in to defend it,

472
00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:35,760
Speaker 9: and that's why we've agreed to pay this amount of money.

473
00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:36,479
Speaker 4: They're not alone.

474
00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:38,880
Speaker 2: It's to me it's a little shocking because I grew

475
00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:43,760
Speaker 2: up going Krogering for the best of everything, including the price.

476
00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:46,800
Speaker 2: I didn't think they were killing everybody in my community.

477
00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:51,600
Speaker 2: But you know what, others have also settled. CVS, Walgreens,

478
00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:55,400
Speaker 2: Walmarts have also entered global settlements of about thirteen billion dollars.

479
00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:57,320
Speaker 4: Jen Bartasha say, is this behind us?

480
00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:01,879
Speaker 10: I think for the we've we've not seen settlements from

481
00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:04,560
Speaker 10: the biggest players out there. I think that you're still

482
00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:07,040
Speaker 10: going to see settlements from some of the smaller, you know,

483
00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:10,640
Speaker 10: smaller players that may still filter through. But it does

484
00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:12,800
Speaker 10: appear at this point that we may have kind of

485
00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:15,040
Speaker 10: reached that tipping point.

486
00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:15,920
Speaker 8: All right.

487
00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:18,720
Speaker 1: The gens, the two gens, Jen bartash is Jenerary, thanks

488
00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:21,200
Speaker 1: so much for joining us here, talking about a lot

489
00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:22,639
Speaker 1: of things in the supermarket business.

490
00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:23,320
Speaker 10: M and A.

491
00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:27,160
Speaker 1: Kroger's Albertson trying to get this deal over the finish line,

492
00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:29,919
Speaker 1: announcing divestit. You're there to do it as well, so

493
00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:32,159
Speaker 1: we appreciate both of them joining us.

494
00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:36,639
Speaker 6: You're listening to the team Ken's are Live program Bloomberg

495
00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:40,040
Speaker 6: Markets weekdays at ten am Eastern on Bloomberg dot Com,

496
00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:43,280
Speaker 6: the iHeartRadio app and the Bloomberg Business app, or listen

497
00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:46,480
Speaker 6: on demand wherever you get your podcasts.

498
00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:49,679
Speaker 1: Thinking about these markets. You know, in the early summer,

499
00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:53,439
Speaker 1: I think you felt pretty good. Economic growth picking up again,

500
00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:57,199
Speaker 1: stocks were working, even crypto was working. August it kind

501
00:24:57,240 --> 00:24:59,400
Speaker 1: of petered out a little bit. The question is where

502
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:01,919
Speaker 1: do we go from here? Not that everybody's back in

503
00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:05,359
Speaker 1: the office, well maybe not today, but Cali Cox joins us.

504
00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:08,560
Speaker 1: He's a US interest investment analyst at E Touro. And

505
00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:12,040
Speaker 1: of course she is a proud graduate of the University

506
00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:15,000
Speaker 1: of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. But we talked to

507
00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:17,400
Speaker 1: her nonetheless, Cali. Thanks so much for joining us via

508
00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:19,760
Speaker 1: zoom here. I mean it kind of felt like August

509
00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:22,159
Speaker 1: kind of petered out a little bit for some of

510
00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:23,400
Speaker 1: these risk assets here.

511
00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:26,000
Speaker 5: What are you telling your clients these days?

512
00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:30,080
Speaker 11: Yeah, so, first of all, Paul, great football win this

513
00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:34,040
Speaker 11: past week. You know, cheering for Duke always totally risk

514
00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:36,919
Speaker 11: BacT the school unless they're playing US, of course, But

515
00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:41,560
Speaker 11: of course attorney to August, I mean August being look

516
00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:43,679
Speaker 11: across the board, there was a lot of red, and

517
00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:46,000
Speaker 11: I think it was a case of things got a

518
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:49,240
Speaker 11: little too good. I mean, yield started spiking. Everybody thought

519
00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:51,919
Speaker 11: the economy was coming back. It was coming back, but

520
00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:55,680
Speaker 11: suddenly inflation worries popped back up again. You know, we

521
00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:57,800
Speaker 11: are telling customers that there's a lot of pressure on

522
00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:01,120
Speaker 11: the economy, and really what we're seeing in the inflation

523
00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:04,320
Speaker 11: picture is higher gas prices, and of course that's something

524
00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:07,679
Speaker 11: to pay attention to that can strain consumer's wallets. But

525
00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:10,679
Speaker 11: is this an inflation crisis like we ran into in

526
00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:12,199
Speaker 11: twenty twenty two. We don't think so.

527
00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:16,199
Speaker 2: It is we are seeing much higher gas prices. I

528
00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:20,720
Speaker 2: went to fill up this morning, and you know, I

529
00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:24,440
Speaker 2: think we quote the cash price yeah, you know, gas

530
00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:26,720
Speaker 2: stations will charge you like you're a credit guy, ten

531
00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:29,400
Speaker 2: well who pays cash for gasoline?

532
00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:31,359
Speaker 4: Like why you even have a cash price?

533
00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:35,760
Speaker 2: Nobody's running around with Franklin's, you know, paying for gas

534
00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:40,199
Speaker 2: and cash. Three eighty nine was the regular price I

535
00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:43,400
Speaker 2: saw today at the pump. But I obviously don't tank

536
00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:46,200
Speaker 2: the Aston Martin with regular grade.

537
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:48,440
Speaker 5: Gasoline, no way premium stuff.

538
00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:50,800
Speaker 2: It was like five to nineteen the credit price for

539
00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:52,320
Speaker 2: the premium at a BP.

540
00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:53,600
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's nuts.

541
00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:55,480
Speaker 4: So you do see.

542
00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:57,600
Speaker 2: Pressure on the economy, Cali, Do you see it coming

543
00:26:57,640 --> 00:26:59,400
Speaker 2: through in the labor market at all, because it still

544
00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:00,840
Speaker 2: looks pretty damn good.

545
00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:04,720
Speaker 11: It does look pretty damn good, but at the same time,

546
00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:08,520
Speaker 11: it's weakening, Matt. I mean, it's hard to find things

547
00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:09,879
Speaker 11: to complain about in the job market.

548
00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:10,640
Speaker 5: Let's be real.

549
00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:12,760
Speaker 11: I mean, I'm watching jobless claims and they are a

550
00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:15,280
Speaker 11: little bit higher their husband a bit of a move

551
00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:17,639
Speaker 11: in the wrong direction or the right direction when you

552
00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:21,480
Speaker 11: consider the FEDS objectives here, but it's still nowhere near

553
00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:24,080
Speaker 11: you know, the amount of jobless claims that we saw

554
00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:27,040
Speaker 11: at the beginning or you know, right before recessions in

555
00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:29,920
Speaker 11: the past. And I mean job data follows that as well.

556
00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:33,200
Speaker 11: I mean, hiring in the you know, high one hundreds

557
00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:36,359
Speaker 11: was about average in the twenty tens. And you have

558
00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:38,880
Speaker 11: to remember, too, we're dealing with a bigger labor force here.

559
00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:41,639
Speaker 11: I mean, it's tough to look at absolute numbers, but

560
00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:44,399
Speaker 11: you know, I'm pretty happy with what we're seeing in

561
00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:46,560
Speaker 11: the job market, even though there is a lot of

562
00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:48,720
Speaker 11: pressure and we're seeing wage growth come down as well.

563
00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:51,840
Speaker 4: What do we need to see? What do we need

564
00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:54,840
Speaker 4: to see? What does the FED need to see to

565
00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:59,320
Speaker 4: cut rates? Kelly, So this is a.

566
00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:02,040
Speaker 11: Big, big question and right now. And Jay actually told

567
00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:04,399
Speaker 11: us in July that the FEB would be open to

568
00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:07,280
Speaker 11: cutting rates if they saw enough progress on inflation. That

569
00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:10,919
Speaker 11: surprised me because before that the FED had alluded. The

570
00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:13,080
Speaker 11: FED had tried not to allude to rate cuts, first

571
00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:16,159
Speaker 11: of all, but it also, you know, talked about rate

572
00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:19,040
Speaker 11: cuts in a recessionary manner. Now, were forced to cut

573
00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:22,560
Speaker 11: rates because the economy falls off a cliff, then you know,

574
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:26,360
Speaker 11: we'll do it, but don't expect that anytime soon. Powell's

575
00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:29,520
Speaker 11: stone tone changed a lot in July. Powell again hinted

576
00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:33,200
Speaker 11: to you know, cutting rates if inflation made enough progress. Obviously,

577
00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:36,200
Speaker 11: inflation is moving in the wrong direction right now. Rate

578
00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:39,640
Speaker 11: cuts still seem far off. You know, one more hike

579
00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:43,160
Speaker 11: could be on the table, but you know, I think

580
00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:45,640
Speaker 11: with inflation where it's at right now, that that is

581
00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:48,600
Speaker 11: something we should consider the fact that, you know, the

582
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:52,240
Speaker 11: Powell is kind of seeing this risk reward balance even

583
00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:52,880
Speaker 11: out a little bit.

584
00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:56,440
Speaker 1: Kelly, how do you guys think about valuation in the

585
00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:58,239
Speaker 1: stock market here? A lot of folks are telling me

586
00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:00,640
Speaker 1: if you pull out the you know, the magnific since seven,

587
00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:03,920
Speaker 1: this market's not that expensive here, and you should be

588
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:08,200
Speaker 1: looking for some names, maybe some names that have not participated.

589
00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:09,640
Speaker 5: How do you guys think about valuation?

590
00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:12,240
Speaker 11: Yeah, so we actually agree.

591
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:12,520
Speaker 3: We don't.

592
00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:15,000
Speaker 11: We don't think valuation is a big risk right now.

593
00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:16,840
Speaker 11: But you have to dig down to a sector level.

594
00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:20,120
Speaker 11: If you look at a sector bisector painting, you can

595
00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:24,520
Speaker 11: see that text valuation is quite high compared to where

596
00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:27,320
Speaker 11: it was in the past, and also the S and

597
00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:30,720
Speaker 11: P five hundreds valuation. I like looking at the value,

598
00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:33,960
Speaker 11: the valuation of value versus growth said value a lot

599
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:38,520
Speaker 11: there the pees that we're seeing in value versus growth

600
00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:42,760
Speaker 11: because value stocks are heavily discounted on a historic perspective

601
00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:46,000
Speaker 11: relative to growth, and we're pointing that out to customers, saying,

602
00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:49,480
Speaker 11: if interest rates stay high, we could see some opportunities there.

603
00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:54,760
Speaker 2: And growth is also already too expensive, right or do

604
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:57,400
Speaker 2: you see any growth stocks that look attractive?

605
00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:00,880
Speaker 11: You know, growth, I think again, and you have to

606
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:03,400
Speaker 11: dig below the surface. I mean I said tech. You know,

607
00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:07,400
Speaker 11: tech looks quite expensive. You know, there are different flavors

608
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:10,040
Speaker 11: of tech that you have to look at. But you

609
00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:12,440
Speaker 11: know there are other growth and rate sensitive sectors that

610
00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:14,720
Speaker 11: do look a little bit cheaper. Of course they don't

611
00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:18,120
Speaker 11: have the profile of tech. But we don't hate going

612
00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:22,480
Speaker 11: long duration here, and you know, preparing yourself for rates

613
00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:25,040
Speaker 11: eventually coming down because again there's a lot of pressure

614
00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:27,280
Speaker 11: on the economy. I mean, we know what the FED

615
00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:30,280
Speaker 11: is trying to do. So you know, when we're in

616
00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:32,880
Speaker 11: this position, when people are worried about rates moving higher,

617
00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:35,160
Speaker 11: it may make sense to take the contrarian view.

618
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:38,800
Speaker 1: How about energy, because we've been paying a lot of

619
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:41,560
Speaker 1: attention to this move up in oil, got WT crude

620
00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:43,960
Speaker 1: oil up another one percent today, that just under eighty.

621
00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:47,080
Speaker 5: Eight dollars per barrel. How do you guys think about

622
00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:48,120
Speaker 5: the energy space.

623
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:51,640
Speaker 11: Well, you know, if you think inflation is coming back

624
00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:54,040
Speaker 11: in force, then you know it's probably smart to look

625
00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:57,640
Speaker 11: at energy and those tangible assets and the companies that

626
00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:00,440
Speaker 11: benefit from the rise in tangible assets. You know, we

627
00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:04,440
Speaker 11: think this rise in gas prices and oil prices isn't sustainable.

628
00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:07,360
Speaker 11: We think it's a technical move. We think it's supply driven.

629
00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:11,560
Speaker 11: So based on that, we wouldn't expect energy stocks to

630
00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:14,280
Speaker 11: you know, maintain this rally.

631
00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:14,719
Speaker 10: Uh.

632
00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:15,960
Speaker 11: The question is for how long?

633
00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:16,200
Speaker 10: Though?

634
00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:18,040
Speaker 11: We think that that's a short term view. But how

635
00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:21,000
Speaker 11: long is short term? We're not sure. We can't predict

636
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:23,960
Speaker 11: the day to day, but long term thinking you know, months,

637
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:26,880
Speaker 11: several months down the road. I mean, we don't expect

638
00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:27,960
Speaker 11: oil prices to.

639
00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:28,520
Speaker 2: Keep this up.

640
00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:32,560
Speaker 4: You like, any risk assets outside of the US?

641
00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:34,760
Speaker 2: Cali, do you look outside of the US?

642
00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:38,560
Speaker 11: I mean, we have US focused customers, but e Toro

643
00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:40,600
Speaker 11: is a global platform, so of course we look outside

644
00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:43,440
Speaker 11: the US. You know, globally, I think the rise of

645
00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:46,040
Speaker 11: the dollar is going to be a huge pressure, especially

646
00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:48,120
Speaker 11: on emerging markets. And then you have what you see

647
00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:51,400
Speaker 11: what's happening in China overseas, and you know, I'll sum

648
00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:53,440
Speaker 11: it all up with you know, there's a reason why

649
00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:55,560
Speaker 11: global stocks are trading at a lower pe than the

650
00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:58,480
Speaker 11: US right now. Is there value there? I think you

651
00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:00,880
Speaker 11: have to evaluate it on a country but country basis.

652
00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:05,360
Speaker 11: But you know, there again, there's a reason why global

653
00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:07,760
Speaker 11: markets are cheap, and it's smart to diversify, but you

654
00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:10,360
Speaker 11: have to also reckon with you know, the different situations

655
00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:11,160
Speaker 11: you're running into.

656
00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:14,600
Speaker 5: So within the US, are there sectors cali that you

657
00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:16,000
Speaker 5: like right here?

658
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:21,160
Speaker 11: Yeah? So I think this again depends on timeframes. You know,

659
00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:24,480
Speaker 11: as long as the economy is chugging along, especially given

660
00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:27,320
Speaker 11: the you know pop and growth that we could see

661
00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:28,920
Speaker 11: this quarter and that we have seen for the past

662
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:31,760
Speaker 11: few months, I think some cheaper cyclicals could be an

663
00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:35,200
Speaker 11: interesting short term play. However, again, a lot of pressure

664
00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:38,800
Speaker 11: on the economy, and you know, if you think that

665
00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:42,000
Speaker 11: the economy is going into recession, then you know, certain

666
00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:46,200
Speaker 11: sectors like bonds and real estate for example, could look

667
00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:48,720
Speaker 11: cheap as well. I mean, right now, we're telling customers

668
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:52,440
Speaker 11: that portfolio positioning isn't black and white, and there's a

669
00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:54,640
Speaker 11: big difference between a month from now and a year

670
00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:55,200
Speaker 11: from now.

671
00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:56,520
Speaker 5: So you know, we like.

672
00:32:56,520 --> 00:33:00,040
Speaker 11: Long duration here, We like you know, piling into the

673
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:02,640
Speaker 11: rate sensitive sectors, but at the same time, you know,

674
00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:07,040
Speaker 11: cheaper cyclicals could perform well if we continue to see

675
00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:08,200
Speaker 11: economic data do well.

676
00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:11,120
Speaker 1: Hey, Kelly, thanks so much for joining us. Always appreciate

677
00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:14,720
Speaker 1: getting your thoughts there. Kelly Cox, us investment analyst at

678
00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:15,720
Speaker 1: e Touro.

679
00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:19,400
Speaker 6: You're listening to the tape Cat's are live program Bloomberg

680
00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:23,080
Speaker 6: Markets weekdays at ten am Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the

681
00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:25,080
Speaker 6: tune in app, Bloomberg dot Com, and.

682
00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:26,360
Speaker 8: The Bloomberg Business App.

683
00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:29,200
Speaker 6: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our

684
00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:34,280
Speaker 6: flagship New York station. Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty.

685
00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:37,520
Speaker 1: Let's talk about a new IPO potentially coming that's going

686
00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:41,520
Speaker 1: to be very interesting. Amber Sports, the maker of Wilson

687
00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:44,680
Speaker 1: tennis rackets and Solomon ski boots. That got my attention, Dubert,

688
00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:47,400
Speaker 1: I have to say, also my favorite boots and my

689
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:49,880
Speaker 1: favorite skis typically Yeah, so they're just like a go to,

690
00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:52,520
Speaker 1: I know, they do good stuff. And tennis rackets who

691
00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:56,440
Speaker 1: I've had a Wilson tennis record forever. Bloomberg Intelligence analysts

692
00:33:56,520 --> 00:34:00,640
Speaker 1: Katherine Limb. She covers all the consumer and technology for Sumergantology.

693
00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:03,160
Speaker 1: She's based in Singapore. I have no idea where she

694
00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:05,600
Speaker 1: is today, but I see her on the zoom. I

695
00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:07,760
Speaker 1: hope she's in Singapore.

696
00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:11,040
Speaker 2: Is it a mayor sports? By the way, is it Catherine?

697
00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:13,759
Speaker 2: Is it like a mayor Rica? Are they trying to

698
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:15,360
Speaker 2: pull a fast one on us or how do you

699
00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:15,960
Speaker 2: pronounce it?

700
00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:16,360
Speaker 3: Well?

701
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:18,120
Speaker 12: Well, do you know what?

702
00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:18,719
Speaker 13: This is?

703
00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:24,760
Speaker 12: A Finnish company which Anta Sport had actually acquired sometime

704
00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:28,680
Speaker 12: back in twenty nineteen, that's when the deal was concluded.

705
00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:34,040
Speaker 12: You know, they started initiating the plans to actually acquire

706
00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:38,400
Speaker 12: this again Finnish company that you know you've actually mentioned.

707
00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:43,600
Speaker 12: They've got very well known brands. Wilson just one, Solomon

708
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:46,640
Speaker 12: is one, and actually our t Rex is the one

709
00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:51,920
Speaker 12: that has actually done exceptionally well in China. And notwithstanding,

710
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:56,160
Speaker 12: of course, you know, they actually do have atomic which

711
00:34:56,200 --> 00:34:58,320
Speaker 12: I believe. You know, it is a complete.

712
00:34:57,960 --> 00:34:59,399
Speaker 4: Year, so great year.

713
00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:05,680
Speaker 2: It makes my favorite scuba gear actually really incredible regulators,

714
00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:07,280
Speaker 2: high high end, high end equipment.

715
00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:10,520
Speaker 12: Yes, so it's a it's a midst of them, you know,

716
00:35:10,719 --> 00:35:15,239
Speaker 12: very well established brands, and it is interesting to see

717
00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:20,080
Speaker 12: that they're actually seeking a us IPO IPO and obviously

718
00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:23,920
Speaker 12: looking to raise funds, which I do believe it is

719
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:27,720
Speaker 12: for their expansion, both in China as well as over.

720
00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:31,000
Speaker 1: So, I mean, they've got some competition out there. I

721
00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:34,480
Speaker 1: just think about the consumer brands Nike, Audi, Dos, VF Corp.

722
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:37,280
Speaker 1: How are they doing in terms of market share?

723
00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:40,279
Speaker 2: Did they buy Solomon from Audi Dos because Audio doc

724
00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:41,240
Speaker 2: used to own Solomon?

725
00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:42,879
Speaker 8: Right?

726
00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:45,520
Speaker 12: Do you know what? That is a very interesting point

727
00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:47,720
Speaker 12: that you actually raised, because as you may be aware,

728
00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:53,000
Speaker 12: there's actually an increasing shift towards niche labels out there,

729
00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:56,839
Speaker 12: particularly by the sports fanatic, you know, who's looking for

730
00:35:57,360 --> 00:36:02,839
Speaker 12: outdoor year out your brands itself that goes beyond the

731
00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:06,840
Speaker 12: North Facet or Columbia that you know we're familiar with

732
00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:10,600
Speaker 12: with beer. And then of course, you know, notwithstanding are

733
00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:14,800
Speaker 12: t Rex that's actually I would consider a higher end

734
00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:20,640
Speaker 12: brand and particularly doing actually very well here in Asia,

735
00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:24,480
Speaker 12: and because of the price points and for the fact

736
00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:27,880
Speaker 12: that you know, it is a niche brand. What Anta

737
00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:31,320
Speaker 12: Sport has actually been doing over the last four years

738
00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:35,440
Speaker 12: since they've actually acquired the company was to slowly but

739
00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:40,360
Speaker 12: surely expand the merchandise offerings. So we're looking at you know,

740
00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:48,080
Speaker 12: more apparels going into the shoes as well. So expanding

741
00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:51,960
Speaker 12: the merchandise offerings is definitely a key to actually growing

742
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:53,720
Speaker 12: this business, Catherine.

743
00:36:53,719 --> 00:36:57,239
Speaker 1: So is the company's pitch here in coming private that hey,

744
00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:00,719
Speaker 1: we have some market share gains in China, that's where

745
00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:03,120
Speaker 1: our growth is. Is that kind of their pitch.

746
00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:07,759
Speaker 12: I believe they have their eyes beyond China and this

747
00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:13,200
Speaker 12: is really key to establishing, you know, your international brands.

748
00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:16,480
Speaker 12: So this is going beyond you know, the Chinese brands

749
00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:20,640
Speaker 12: that the company had actually made a bit splashed at

750
00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:23,640
Speaker 12: home with that's the Anti Sports brand. And let's take

751
00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:27,160
Speaker 12: a step back. Anti Sports. They made a name for themselves.

752
00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:31,880
Speaker 12: They've established themselves being now I believe it is you know,

753
00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:34,160
Speaker 12: the seventh of the eighth year to which they are

754
00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:40,759
Speaker 12: the official sponsors for the Chinese Olympic Committee, so you know,

755
00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:44,360
Speaker 12: they are now very well associated among the Chinese. But

756
00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:48,520
Speaker 12: the company has obviously biggest goals to which they are

757
00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:53,359
Speaker 12: looking to actually have a portfolio of established labels that

758
00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:56,960
Speaker 12: go beyond you know, your homegrown brands. But the higher

759
00:37:57,080 --> 00:38:00,800
Speaker 12: price Yer brands are t Rex Parloment. You know, even

760
00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:04,640
Speaker 12: Wilson and I do believe that, you know, they will

761
00:38:04,680 --> 00:38:08,879
Speaker 12: be rolling out plans for Wilson to be beyond basketball,

762
00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:12,680
Speaker 12: you know, racket that we have seen. They've actually talked

763
00:38:12,719 --> 00:38:16,320
Speaker 12: about it back in twenty nineteen when they first acquired

764
00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:20,680
Speaker 12: the company, that they will be looking into apparels for Wilson.

765
00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:24,400
Speaker 12: Let's see what happens. You know, when the when Irma

766
00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:27,360
Speaker 12: makes a successful IPO.

767
00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:30,880
Speaker 4: Wilson makes pick aball rackets as well. Now that's a

768
00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:31,799
Speaker 4: growth business, you know.

769
00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:34,279
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, to play, so for sure you have to play.

770
00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:35,360
Speaker 4: I was playing yesterday.

771
00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:36,920
Speaker 5: Nice Hey, Catherine.

772
00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:38,680
Speaker 1: I'm looking at the you know, some of the comps

773
00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:40,399
Speaker 1: and how the stocks have done. I mean it's kind

774
00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:42,800
Speaker 1: of all over the board. Adidas is up thirty seven

775
00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:45,080
Speaker 1: percent year to date, but you know Nike and under

776
00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:48,239
Speaker 1: Armour they're down fifteen to thirty percent. How do the

777
00:38:48,239 --> 00:38:52,000
Speaker 1: comps look here? How do you ho's evaluation here? How

778
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:54,080
Speaker 1: do you think this company should be positioned within the group?

779
00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:59,239
Speaker 12: Well, I think general sentiment wise, obviously, you know, we

780
00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:04,120
Speaker 12: see growing concerns about global demand, you know, the sentiment

781
00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:08,680
Speaker 12: wise towards the discretionary goods, and that's what you've probably

782
00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:12,919
Speaker 12: been seeing, you know, reflecting in the prices of Nike

783
00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:15,400
Speaker 12: and BF. Now our data is a bit of a

784
00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:18,920
Speaker 12: different thing because you know, again the company has actually

785
00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:23,319
Speaker 12: gone through major changes, including a new CEO, and they

786
00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:26,200
Speaker 12: are actually picking themselves up from what I would say

787
00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:29,759
Speaker 12: the load to which, you know, take a step back.

788
00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:34,759
Speaker 12: Remember last year they lost eas the partnership and then

789
00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:38,600
Speaker 12: or rather they terminated the Easy partnership. You know, they

790
00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:43,080
Speaker 12: re looked at their inventory situations and they've actually realigned

791
00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:46,160
Speaker 12: it along with what they've set themselves going forward. So

792
00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:48,600
Speaker 12: it's a bit of a different story. It's like a

793
00:39:48,719 --> 00:39:51,719
Speaker 12: you know, a turnaround, if you actually call it. So,

794
00:39:52,239 --> 00:39:55,480
Speaker 12: I think it's very mixed right now. Really there are

795
00:39:55,600 --> 00:39:58,560
Speaker 12: eyes and I would say that what we've actually touched

796
00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:02,400
Speaker 12: on one of the growth list virtually be coming from China,

797
00:40:03,080 --> 00:40:06,120
Speaker 12: And do you know when the sentiment actually turns for

798
00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:09,160
Speaker 12: China fingers crossed on that one, you know, you might

799
00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:11,279
Speaker 12: actually see a more enticing story for.

800
00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:14,040
Speaker 4: Interesting stuff.

801
00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:15,080
Speaker 5: Yep, great stuff.

802
00:40:15,080 --> 00:40:17,799
Speaker 1: I mean, hey, we got an IPO that's exciting in

803
00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:19,360
Speaker 1: and of itself, and then we talk about some of

804
00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:21,920
Speaker 1: the cool products they have, it makes even more interesting.

805
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:23,960
Speaker 1: Katherine Limb, thanks so much for joining us. Katherine Limb

806
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:26,880
Speaker 1: is a senior analyst. She covers the consumer in tech space,

807
00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:30,279
Speaker 1: and she's head of Asian Equities for Bloomberg Intelligence, so

808
00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:32,719
Speaker 1: we appreciate getting some of her time. She's formerly at

809
00:40:32,719 --> 00:40:35,680
Speaker 1: Credit Swiss and City, so we appreciate that she's now

810
00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:36,920
Speaker 1: at Bloomberg Intelligence.

811
00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:40,280
Speaker 6: You're listening to the tape Cat's are live program Bloomberg

812
00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:43,920
Speaker 6: Markets weekdays at ten am Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the

813
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:46,080
Speaker 6: tune in app, Bloomberg dot Com.

814
00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:47,239
Speaker 8: And the Bloomberg Business app.

815
00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:50,080
Speaker 6: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our

816
00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:56,080
Speaker 6: flagship New York station. Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty.

817
00:40:56,120 --> 00:40:56,960
Speaker 5: It is riting.

818
00:40:57,239 --> 00:41:01,480
Speaker 1: It is the time to ask what is Matt Miller driving.

819
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:04,440
Speaker 1: I really don't know, and quite frankly, I'm not really

820
00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:08,200
Speaker 1: super car guy. But our next guest is Michael Dean.

821
00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:11,040
Speaker 1: He says, senior analys are covering the European automotives for

822
00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:13,879
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Intelligence. I can't believe we actually pay this guy

823
00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:15,760
Speaker 1: to do this, because we can get it done for free.

824
00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:16,560
Speaker 6: He would do it.

825
00:41:16,600 --> 00:41:18,399
Speaker 2: That's so glad we pay it is because I think

826
00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:21,160
Speaker 2: he takes all of his paycheck and buys new cars

827
00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:24,000
Speaker 2: and buys new car A lot of people who cover cars.

828
00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:26,959
Speaker 2: Don't really care about cars, but Michael Dean does, which

829
00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:29,120
Speaker 2: is why we love having him on. Michael, I want

830
00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:31,839
Speaker 2: to get first your thoughts on this beast of a car.

831
00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:34,280
Speaker 2: I've been talking about it for most of the show already.

832
00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:36,719
Speaker 2: It's the Aston Martin DBX seven oh seven that I'm

833
00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:39,520
Speaker 2: lucky enough to test out this week. Six hundred and

834
00:41:39,560 --> 00:41:43,160
Speaker 2: ninety seven horsepower, zero to sixty and three point one seconds,

835
00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:45,560
Speaker 2: even though it weighs five pounds.

836
00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:46,719
Speaker 4: What's your take?

837
00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:51,319
Speaker 14: Yeah, it's a great car, it sounds good, it's got

838
00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:55,160
Speaker 14: the performance, so it's the fastest luxury suv out there.

839
00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:58,759
Speaker 14: It's even quicker than the Ferrari pure same way, which

840
00:41:58,840 --> 00:42:01,600
Speaker 14: is done with the price and it makes up seventy

841
00:42:01,680 --> 00:42:04,719
Speaker 14: percent of the mix of DBXLF so it's a better

842
00:42:04,719 --> 00:42:07,040
Speaker 14: price point. It's a better car, and it's setting well

843
00:42:07,040 --> 00:42:07,840
Speaker 14: for Aston Martin.

844
00:42:08,719 --> 00:42:13,520
Speaker 2: So I haven't driven the new Ferrari yet. Well, I

845
00:42:13,520 --> 00:42:16,040
Speaker 2: don't know if I will. That's kind of like a

846
00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:19,160
Speaker 2: different level and they're very difficult to get.

847
00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:20,680
Speaker 5: Michael Dean can help you out.

848
00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:23,040
Speaker 2: Hannah Elliott, has Michael, have you used driven the new Ferrari.

849
00:42:23,040 --> 00:42:25,680
Speaker 2: I don't get sidetracked, but no, I've been in it.

850
00:42:25,719 --> 00:42:26,520
Speaker 5: I haven't driven it.

851
00:42:26,520 --> 00:42:29,120
Speaker 14: But Hannah Elliotts has so well. I have to ask her.

852
00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:31,799
Speaker 4: She has like better access than anybody.

853
00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:34,600
Speaker 2: But but and she's driven this asked in a few times,

854
00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:39,319
Speaker 2: I have to say, I absolutely love driving it.

855
00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:41,160
Speaker 4: Okay, Now it has different modes.

856
00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:45,080
Speaker 2: You can put it in an all terrain mode has

857
00:42:45,120 --> 00:42:48,120
Speaker 2: a GT Grand Touring mode has Sport and Sport Plus.

858
00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:51,640
Speaker 2: I think they're useless. You only need sport plus. Everything

859
00:42:51,640 --> 00:42:55,360
Speaker 2: else sucks, and Sport Plus is the greatest experience you

860
00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:57,719
Speaker 2: could possibly have in an suv, at least in my

861
00:42:58,280 --> 00:43:04,440
Speaker 2: uh in my experience, but it's frustrating in a number

862
00:43:04,440 --> 00:43:05,080
Speaker 2: of other ways.

863
00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:05,480
Speaker 4: Michael.

864
00:43:05,560 --> 00:43:10,359
Speaker 2: There's no wireless car play, which means I can't use

865
00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:14,200
Speaker 2: Google Maps. I have to use their extremely dated navigation technology,

866
00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:16,640
Speaker 2: which just doesn't work that well. If I do want

867
00:43:16,680 --> 00:43:19,759
Speaker 2: to plug in my iPhone to the Aston Martin, it

868
00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:23,480
Speaker 2: still has the old clunky USB ports, it doesn't have

869
00:43:23,560 --> 00:43:26,680
Speaker 2: the new USB C ports, so I can't. I don't

870
00:43:26,680 --> 00:43:29,760
Speaker 2: have that those old plugs anymore. At my health house.

871
00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:32,719
Speaker 2: There's no touch screen right now. I know these are

872
00:43:32,719 --> 00:43:34,600
Speaker 2: for most people. It doesn't matter if you buy a

873
00:43:34,600 --> 00:43:37,080
Speaker 2: car for the engine and to drive it. But honestly,

874
00:43:37,120 --> 00:43:39,000
Speaker 2: on a day to day basis, if I'm spending three

875
00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:42,040
Speaker 2: hundred thousand dollars, I want the best tech, why can't

876
00:43:42,040 --> 00:43:42,759
Speaker 2: they deliver it.

877
00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:46,400
Speaker 14: Yeah, maybe you're just being fussy, but that it's true

878
00:43:46,640 --> 00:43:49,440
Speaker 14: when the competition has the high tech. So if you

879
00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:51,960
Speaker 14: look at the LAMB beginning yours, it has a touch screen,

880
00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:55,520
Speaker 14: it has all the correct interface, it has the connectivity,

881
00:43:56,200 --> 00:44:00,400
Speaker 14: and what happens is that Aston Martin uses Mercedes technology.

882
00:44:00,440 --> 00:44:02,759
Speaker 14: But this is the old technology. So you'll have an

883
00:44:02,840 --> 00:44:05,919
Speaker 14: updated version, probably about twelve to eighteen months, which will

884
00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:09,279
Speaker 14: have a flat screen, which will have the compactivity, and

885
00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:11,960
Speaker 14: also you'll probably have a plug in hybrid option, so

886
00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:15,440
Speaker 14: that is coming. But hopefully that doesn't take away the

887
00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:17,240
Speaker 14: experience of driving the vehicle.

888
00:44:17,560 --> 00:44:20,359
Speaker 2: It doesn't at all, but there's certain So it has

889
00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:23,240
Speaker 2: these hydraulic struts in the doors. I've never seen anything

890
00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:25,719
Speaker 2: like this. You can actually look at them when you

891
00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:26,600
Speaker 2: open and close the door.

892
00:44:26,640 --> 00:44:27,319
Speaker 4: We probably have.

893
00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:28,000
Speaker 5: Video of it.

894
00:44:29,320 --> 00:44:32,239
Speaker 2: That's supposed to make the doors, I guess, more comfortable

895
00:44:32,360 --> 00:44:34,840
Speaker 2: and easy to use, but in fact they're the hardest

896
00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:37,880
Speaker 2: doors to open and close that I've experienced in almost

897
00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:39,239
Speaker 2: any car in the.

898
00:44:39,200 --> 00:44:40,960
Speaker 4: Last decade, which is weird.

899
00:44:41,120 --> 00:44:44,640
Speaker 2: I do like it better than the Lamborghini Orus on

900
00:44:45,320 --> 00:44:49,680
Speaker 2: almost every level, which says a lot because I'm a Lamborghini,

901
00:44:50,080 --> 00:44:53,520
Speaker 2: a huge Lamborghini fanboy. But I think it looks better.

902
00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:56,839
Speaker 2: I think, well, it's definitely faster. I think it's more

903
00:44:56,880 --> 00:44:59,239
Speaker 2: fun to drive. The transmission I like a lot better,

904
00:44:59,280 --> 00:45:01,879
Speaker 2: which I guess is a Mercedes transmission as well. Right,

905
00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:04,120
Speaker 2: so in terms of the driving experience, I don't know

906
00:45:04,120 --> 00:45:07,239
Speaker 2: if it can be beat. There's a new challenger the

907
00:45:08,360 --> 00:45:10,920
Speaker 2: in the class, actually a little bit lower, the Porsche

908
00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:15,880
Speaker 2: Cayenne Turbo Hybrid, which is just coming out that seems

909
00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:18,719
Speaker 2: to be at least on paper as fast and like

910
00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:19,480
Speaker 2: half the price.

911
00:45:19,520 --> 00:45:20,480
Speaker 4: What do you think about that?

912
00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:22,920
Speaker 8: Yes, I'm with you.

913
00:45:23,160 --> 00:45:25,960
Speaker 14: I think Aston Martin's my favorite brand as well, and

914
00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:30,320
Speaker 14: the driveability is there. But also Porsche ranks pretty high

915
00:45:31,360 --> 00:45:35,000
Speaker 14: on my best list. But I think the new Porsche

916
00:45:35,040 --> 00:45:38,560
Speaker 14: Cayenne is an excellent vehicle, has all the high tech,

917
00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:42,399
Speaker 14: the engine is fantastic, and it will sell extremely well

918
00:45:42,440 --> 00:45:43,439
Speaker 14: because it's.

919
00:45:43,160 --> 00:45:44,320
Speaker 5: At a better price point.

920
00:45:45,200 --> 00:45:48,319
Speaker 14: So yeah, they're doing well with the new Kyen. There's

921
00:45:48,360 --> 00:45:49,080
Speaker 14: no doubt about that.

922
00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:52,280
Speaker 5: Aston Martin stock is up one hundred and seventeen percent

923
00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:53,959
Speaker 5: year to date. What's going on there.

924
00:45:54,920 --> 00:45:57,400
Speaker 14: Yeah, you've got to take into account that it's almost

925
00:45:57,520 --> 00:46:00,279
Speaker 14: ninety percent from when IPOs in two thousand and eight. Team,

926
00:46:00,560 --> 00:46:03,560
Speaker 14: so it's had a really tough time since it's come

927
00:46:03,640 --> 00:46:06,040
Speaker 14: to the stock market. It's got a new set of managers,

928
00:46:06,280 --> 00:46:09,840
Speaker 14: it's got some new investors, so Lawrence Stroll, he's the

929
00:46:09,880 --> 00:46:13,000
Speaker 14: main owner. You've had Dale tak a ten percent steak.

930
00:46:13,080 --> 00:46:17,239
Speaker 14: You've got the Saudi PIF taking a steak. So they're

931
00:46:17,280 --> 00:46:21,040
Speaker 14: finally getting it right. They've got new products just being launched.

932
00:46:21,080 --> 00:46:24,480
Speaker 14: So the new dB twelve was launched this month. This

933
00:46:24,600 --> 00:46:27,360
Speaker 14: is hopefully going to turn around the cashload to be positive.

934
00:46:27,600 --> 00:46:31,000
Speaker 14: It hasn't been positive in you know, the years that

935
00:46:31,480 --> 00:46:34,319
Speaker 14: it's been a listed company. And they had two other

936
00:46:34,680 --> 00:46:38,280
Speaker 14: vehicles coming fairly soon, so they're on the right path.

937
00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:43,240
Speaker 14: They've got enough cash to manage certainly for the next

938
00:46:43,600 --> 00:46:47,200
Speaker 14: six to twelve months, and it's getting this free cashblow

939
00:46:47,239 --> 00:46:49,920
Speaker 14: into positive territory that will be key to them in

940
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:52,759
Speaker 14: terms of their performance in the next twelve months or so.

941
00:46:53,320 --> 00:46:55,040
Speaker 4: We're showing the video of the car.

942
00:46:55,120 --> 00:46:57,440
Speaker 2: Now we work for a moment, and if you go

943
00:46:57,480 --> 00:46:59,719
Speaker 2: to YouTube dot com and search Bloomberg Radio, you can

944
00:46:59,760 --> 00:47:01,239
Speaker 2: walk us streaming live.

945
00:47:01,280 --> 00:47:04,640
Speaker 4: And guys, let's keep showing the video. It's about the car, right,

946
00:47:04,719 --> 00:47:05,680
Speaker 4: Let's keep showing the car.

947
00:47:07,640 --> 00:47:09,520
Speaker 2: One of the things that I thought was, that's a

948
00:47:09,520 --> 00:47:12,000
Speaker 2: little bit disappointing for a car that you know, blows

949
00:47:12,040 --> 00:47:14,760
Speaker 2: me away in almost every aspect from the driving perspective,

950
00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:19,480
Speaker 2: is the boringness of the engine layout. The Lamborghini URIs,

951
00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:27,400
Speaker 2: the Mercedes AMGS, the Portie Cayenne Turbo, the Aston Martin DBX,

952
00:47:27,480 --> 00:47:31,359
Speaker 2: they all have a twin turbo like four liter V eight.

953
00:47:32,000 --> 00:47:35,759
Speaker 2: What gives you know? Why not have this raging V

954
00:47:35,840 --> 00:47:41,960
Speaker 2: twelve in this In this sense, I think Ferrari tops

955
00:47:42,040 --> 00:47:44,719
Speaker 2: everybody else, although obviously it's more expensive as well.

956
00:47:45,840 --> 00:47:48,920
Speaker 14: Yeah, the V twelve six point five litsa that's in

957
00:47:49,040 --> 00:47:53,920
Speaker 14: the pure same way is a special engine indeed. But

958
00:47:54,040 --> 00:47:57,720
Speaker 14: the thing is, because Ferrari only makes less than twenty

959
00:47:57,719 --> 00:48:00,200
Speaker 14: thousand cars, it doesn't have to adhere to this my

960
00:48:00,239 --> 00:48:04,759
Speaker 14: mission regulation. The likes of Porsche and even Lamborghinni because

961
00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:07,359
Speaker 14: it's part of fogs far and has to so they

962
00:48:07,400 --> 00:48:09,680
Speaker 14: have the twin surbos to make them more fuel efficients,

963
00:48:10,160 --> 00:48:13,080
Speaker 14: but hopefully that doesn't take away too much from the

964
00:48:13,160 --> 00:48:15,160
Speaker 14: enjoyment at least listening to the edge. And I quite

965
00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:17,280
Speaker 14: like the d eights in those vehicles.

966
00:48:17,560 --> 00:48:20,480
Speaker 1: No, it sounds delicious in fact, but we're not going

967
00:48:20,560 --> 00:48:22,000
Speaker 1: to be able to say that for many more years,

968
00:48:22,040 --> 00:48:22,359
Speaker 1: are we?

969
00:48:22,719 --> 00:48:22,879
Speaker 8: No?

970
00:48:23,360 --> 00:48:23,880
Speaker 4: We won't.

971
00:48:24,800 --> 00:48:27,160
Speaker 5: I don't know how you guys, your car guys deal

972
00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:27,600
Speaker 5: with that.

973
00:48:27,880 --> 00:48:28,640
Speaker 4: And accept it.

974
00:48:28,880 --> 00:48:30,840
Speaker 2: This is something that I asked. I was asking Michael

975
00:48:30,880 --> 00:48:33,600
Speaker 2: Andretti yesterday. I've asked Laurence.

976
00:48:33,200 --> 00:48:34,320
Speaker 4: Stroll as well.

977
00:48:35,280 --> 00:48:39,239
Speaker 2: Laren Stroll is like the owner of Aston Martin, or

978
00:48:39,280 --> 00:48:41,160
Speaker 2: at least a huge chunk of it, and he runs

979
00:48:41,160 --> 00:48:43,600
Speaker 2: their F one team as well. What do you think, Michael,

980
00:48:43,640 --> 00:48:46,640
Speaker 2: how do how does racing and how do luxury cars

981
00:48:46,640 --> 00:48:49,640
Speaker 2: make this transition? I was test driving the BMW x

982
00:48:49,880 --> 00:48:54,160
Speaker 2: M a couple of weeks ago and the sound was

983
00:48:54,200 --> 00:48:57,000
Speaker 2: really disappointing that that has a V eight but you

984
00:48:57,000 --> 00:48:57,840
Speaker 2: know it's a hybrid.

985
00:48:59,280 --> 00:49:00,960
Speaker 5: Yeah, we're going to disappoint you.

986
00:49:01,040 --> 00:49:03,680
Speaker 14: And also my colleague Kevin Tynan in that I've actually

987
00:49:03,760 --> 00:49:06,759
Speaker 14: bought a full electric vehicle, so I've got the pmw

988
00:49:06,880 --> 00:49:10,560
Speaker 14: IX fifty and I've got to say it's awesome performance,

989
00:49:10,680 --> 00:49:14,160
Speaker 14: but the one thing that is lacking is the engine noise,

990
00:49:14,480 --> 00:49:16,279
Speaker 14: and it does make a difference and it will put

991
00:49:16,320 --> 00:49:19,240
Speaker 14: people off the good thing for the luxury car maker

992
00:49:19,280 --> 00:49:23,520
Speaker 14: is they've got an extended period of grace into which

993
00:49:23,560 --> 00:49:27,160
Speaker 14: they can phase out their V twelve, so the details

994
00:49:27,280 --> 00:49:30,200
Speaker 14: will become V eights V eights. We've come V six is,

995
00:49:30,600 --> 00:49:34,640
Speaker 14: so we'll still have a ic so internal commossioner engine

996
00:49:34,640 --> 00:49:37,640
Speaker 14: in the luxury brand for many years to come, but

997
00:49:37,760 --> 00:49:40,960
Speaker 14: they will be electrified in some way. And that's certainly

998
00:49:41,000 --> 00:49:43,640
Speaker 14: going to happen with the Asta Martin TVX, It's going

999
00:49:43,680 --> 00:49:46,600
Speaker 14: to happen with Eurous, It's always already happened with the

1000
00:49:46,840 --> 00:49:49,000
Speaker 14: Ben Saga, and as you mentioned, it's on the co En.

1001
00:49:49,680 --> 00:49:53,040
Speaker 14: So yeah, we're going to have ice engines for many

1002
00:49:53,040 --> 00:49:55,000
Speaker 14: more years yet for the luxury car makers.

1003
00:49:55,040 --> 00:49:55,480
Speaker 8: I think.

1004
00:49:55,880 --> 00:49:58,560
Speaker 1: All right, Michael, thanks so much for indulging my partner

1005
00:49:58,600 --> 00:50:02,319
Speaker 1: here in discussion of all things automobiles. Michael Dean, he's

1006
00:50:02,320 --> 00:50:05,480
Speaker 1: the senior ANAMS covering the European automotives. You mentioned Kevin Tynan.

1007
00:50:05,719 --> 00:50:09,080
Speaker 1: He covers the US companies. They're both super duper car guys, and.

1008
00:50:09,280 --> 00:50:12,200
Speaker 2: You mentioned the bmwix Ah, yes again, is on my list?

1009
00:50:12,320 --> 00:50:13,399
Speaker 5: Is on your list? All right?

1010
00:50:13,920 --> 00:50:16,600
Speaker 1: Michael Dean from Bloomberg Intelligence, We've got and we've got

1011
00:50:16,600 --> 00:50:19,000
Speaker 1: somebody in Asia that covers the Asian companies as well,

1012
00:50:19,000 --> 00:50:21,799
Speaker 1: so we've got the global auto business absolutely covered from

1013
00:50:21,840 --> 00:50:23,560
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Intelligence perspective.

1014
00:50:23,840 --> 00:50:26,960
Speaker 6: You're listening to the tape Cat's are live program Bloomberg

1015
00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:30,600
Speaker 6: Markets weekdays at ten am Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the

1016
00:50:30,640 --> 00:50:32,680
Speaker 6: tune in app, Bloomberg dot Com.

1017
00:50:32,440 --> 00:50:33,879
Speaker 8: And the Bloomberg Business App.

1018
00:50:33,920 --> 00:50:36,719
Speaker 6: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our

1019
00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:41,760
Speaker 6: flagship New York station just say Alexa playing Bloomberg eleven thirty.

1020
00:50:42,360 --> 00:50:45,479
Speaker 5: All right, I realtreat here. We're talking serious trading here.

1021
00:50:45,520 --> 00:50:45,719
Speaker 8: Now.

1022
00:50:46,120 --> 00:50:47,799
Speaker 1: We booked this guest to talk about the markets, but

1023
00:50:47,880 --> 00:50:49,799
Speaker 1: quite frankly, we've got a lot of markets guests on

1024
00:50:49,920 --> 00:50:52,960
Speaker 1: the week, so let's talk about some real trading in

1025
00:50:53,080 --> 00:50:56,520
Speaker 1: the pits. JJ Kinahan joins us. He's the CEO of

1026
00:50:56,640 --> 00:50:59,360
Speaker 1: IG Group North America. Joins us live here on our

1027
00:50:59,360 --> 00:51:02,600
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Inner to Brooker Studios. He is from Chicago and

1028
00:51:02,640 --> 00:51:04,600
Speaker 1: that that kind of goes to the story here. JJ,

1029
00:51:04,680 --> 00:51:08,680
Speaker 1: thanks for coming into the studio here Chicago Board of

1030
00:51:08,719 --> 00:51:09,800
Speaker 1: Options Exchange.

1031
00:51:09,920 --> 00:51:12,480
Speaker 5: See boat, what is it? And what did you do there?

1032
00:51:12,920 --> 00:51:16,560
Speaker 13: So I traded there from nineteen eighty five to two

1033
00:51:16,600 --> 00:51:19,239
Speaker 13: thousand and six, and I traded in what At the time,

1034
00:51:19,320 --> 00:51:21,640
Speaker 13: everything was open outcry, people jumping up and down and

1035
00:51:21,760 --> 00:51:23,840
Speaker 13: yelling at that's what this whole hand signals, all the

1036
00:51:23,960 --> 00:51:27,040
Speaker 13: hand signals, you know, so you'd be someone way across,

1037
00:51:27,080 --> 00:51:29,200
Speaker 13: you'd be checking, you know, check a trade. I BT

1038
00:51:29,239 --> 00:51:32,879
Speaker 13: twenty paid thirty for it, whatever it may be, And

1039
00:51:33,760 --> 00:51:35,759
Speaker 13: it was a wonderful way to make a living. It

1040
00:51:35,840 --> 00:51:40,239
Speaker 13: was very at the time, incredibly efficient. You know, obviously

1041
00:51:40,640 --> 00:51:43,360
Speaker 13: electronic trading is much more efficient. And it's been the

1042
00:51:43,360 --> 00:51:45,719
Speaker 13: greatest scene it's ever happen in retail traders. Yea, but

1043
00:51:46,680 --> 00:51:48,560
Speaker 13: you know there were five hundred and fifty people in there,

1044
00:51:49,080 --> 00:51:52,160
Speaker 13: leaning on each other, spitting on each other, yelling and screaming.

1045
00:51:52,480 --> 00:51:52,640
Speaker 8: You know.

1046
00:51:52,680 --> 00:51:55,320
Speaker 13: It was kind of funny. Even if you didn't know anything,

1047
00:51:55,880 --> 00:51:58,040
Speaker 13: if you didn't like the person you stood next to,

1048
00:51:58,400 --> 00:52:00,440
Speaker 13: you knew everything about him because you dood next to

1049
00:52:00,480 --> 00:52:02,520
Speaker 13: you did it for six and a half hours, all day,

1050
00:52:02,600 --> 00:52:06,160
Speaker 13: every day, and I feel very fortunate. Pauly that was

1051
00:52:06,200 --> 00:52:07,760
Speaker 13: part of my background. I met some of the greatest

1052
00:52:07,760 --> 00:52:10,960
Speaker 13: people in the world. And the one thing I will

1053
00:52:11,000 --> 00:52:12,840
Speaker 13: say was the greatest trade there is your world was

1054
00:52:12,880 --> 00:52:14,719
Speaker 13: your bond. You said by them, you bought them. If

1055
00:52:14,719 --> 00:52:17,240
Speaker 13: you said sold, you sold them. And if you didn't

1056
00:52:17,280 --> 00:52:19,920
Speaker 13: do that, you were quickly found out an outcast. And

1057
00:52:20,000 --> 00:52:24,200
Speaker 13: so you know, you think of the millions, hundreds of

1058
00:52:24,200 --> 00:52:26,200
Speaker 13: millions of dollars that went through there every single day,

1059
00:52:26,360 --> 00:52:28,120
Speaker 13: and it went through on people's words, and that was

1060
00:52:28,160 --> 00:52:28,800
Speaker 13: really special.

1061
00:52:28,920 --> 00:52:30,880
Speaker 1: And so I mean in Chicago, and I think of

1062
00:52:30,920 --> 00:52:33,759
Speaker 1: some of those you know, screaming in the pits, I

1063
00:52:33,800 --> 00:52:37,279
Speaker 1: think Chicago. So there was a there's a community there, right,

1064
00:52:37,320 --> 00:52:40,160
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, kind of everybody and that kind

1065
00:52:40,160 --> 00:52:40,360
Speaker 1: of thing.

1066
00:52:40,520 --> 00:52:42,400
Speaker 13: Yeah, what's ended up happening is a lot of us

1067
00:52:42,400 --> 00:52:44,600
Speaker 13: have ended up on the retail side and brokerage, and

1068
00:52:44,640 --> 00:52:46,400
Speaker 13: many have ended up still on the trading side with

1069
00:52:46,440 --> 00:52:49,680
Speaker 13: some of the bigger firms. And so it's really helped

1070
00:52:50,120 --> 00:52:53,319
Speaker 13: in terms of the relationships we have. And you know,

1071
00:52:53,400 --> 00:52:56,959
Speaker 13: as we were building I went on to think or swim.

1072
00:52:56,960 --> 00:52:58,800
Speaker 13: At the time we built that platform, we kind of

1073
00:52:58,840 --> 00:53:01,640
Speaker 13: built it for ourselves and then you know, ended up

1074
00:53:01,680 --> 00:53:04,280
Speaker 13: selling it to TD. Merriatade then started with Tasty Trade,

1075
00:53:04,520 --> 00:53:06,920
Speaker 13: saying people who built think as something to begin with.

1076
00:53:07,400 --> 00:53:09,600
Speaker 13: And so I've been fortunate. I've worked with my friends

1077
00:53:09,640 --> 00:53:11,640
Speaker 13: my whole life. Right, I've worked in an industry I

1078
00:53:11,680 --> 00:53:13,360
Speaker 13: absolutely love, and I went from the part of the

1079
00:53:13,400 --> 00:53:15,560
Speaker 13: business where it was all about me to now a

1080
00:53:15,640 --> 00:53:19,839
Speaker 13: Tasty Trade. It's all about helping other people understand the

1081
00:53:19,920 --> 00:53:22,439
Speaker 13: markets and what we did, and it feels really good

1082
00:53:22,440 --> 00:53:23,040
Speaker 13: to do that everything.

1083
00:53:23,120 --> 00:53:24,319
Speaker 5: So how do you all right?

1084
00:53:24,360 --> 00:53:26,160
Speaker 1: So you go from trading in the pits back in

1085
00:53:26,200 --> 00:53:29,120
Speaker 1: the eighties and nineties, how are options and other securities

1086
00:53:29,120 --> 00:53:30,680
Speaker 1: that you deal with, how are they traded these days?

1087
00:53:30,760 --> 00:53:33,400
Speaker 13: Well, everything's done electronically. So if you put in to

1088
00:53:33,520 --> 00:53:36,320
Speaker 13: buy something, if you went in to buy Apple right now,

1089
00:53:36,520 --> 00:53:39,160
Speaker 13: and he had the money calling Apple, you know in

1090
00:53:39,239 --> 00:53:41,680
Speaker 13: the front month, you would get filled and you know,

1091
00:53:41,719 --> 00:53:42,959
Speaker 13: before we could blink our eyes.

1092
00:53:43,040 --> 00:53:43,239
Speaker 6: Yep.

1093
00:53:43,520 --> 00:53:46,440
Speaker 13: It's really amazing how quick the electronics work. Whereas back

1094
00:53:46,440 --> 00:53:47,759
Speaker 13: when I was in the pit, you might not know

1095
00:53:47,800 --> 00:53:49,719
Speaker 13: what you did for ten minutes, okay, And that's why

1096
00:53:49,760 --> 00:53:52,640
Speaker 13: there were something called runners. They literally ran back and

1097
00:53:52,680 --> 00:53:54,759
Speaker 13: forth from the pit to the you know, that's where

1098
00:53:54,880 --> 00:53:57,399
Speaker 13: everyone started. You just ran back and forth all day long.

1099
00:53:57,400 --> 00:53:59,359
Speaker 13: You were in great shape. It was a young man's case. Yeah,

1100
00:54:00,400 --> 00:54:03,799
Speaker 13: but you know, so, I just think that everything that's

1101
00:54:03,800 --> 00:54:06,479
Speaker 13: happened in our business since I started in eighty five

1102
00:54:06,719 --> 00:54:09,360
Speaker 13: has been to the benefit of a retail trader, that

1103
00:54:10,280 --> 00:54:13,360
Speaker 13: everything about it has even the playing field so that

1104
00:54:13,440 --> 00:54:17,080
Speaker 13: you know, the platforms that we produce today are so

1105
00:54:17,200 --> 00:54:19,239
Speaker 13: much better than anything I ever had in a pit.

1106
00:54:19,800 --> 00:54:23,200
Speaker 13: And the information flow now is better for you sitting

1107
00:54:23,239 --> 00:54:24,680
Speaker 13: at home in front of your screen than it is

1108
00:54:24,719 --> 00:54:26,680
Speaker 13: for now that there are still a few pits left.

1109
00:54:26,920 --> 00:54:29,200
Speaker 13: They don't have the information flow you have at home, all.

1110
00:54:29,200 --> 00:54:31,960
Speaker 5: Right, So I mean, so is that lower the cost

1111
00:54:32,200 --> 00:54:33,000
Speaker 5: for the average.

1112
00:54:32,800 --> 00:54:34,919
Speaker 13: Invest You know, we think about this. Most equity trades

1113
00:54:34,920 --> 00:54:37,360
Speaker 13: are zero now, right, Yeah, So you know, think about

1114
00:54:37,440 --> 00:54:40,560
Speaker 13: from that point of view again, platforms, the education we

1115
00:54:41,280 --> 00:54:43,880
Speaker 13: spend you know, almost ten hours every single day on

1116
00:54:43,880 --> 00:54:48,279
Speaker 13: our tasty live side broadcasting live about you know, you

1117
00:54:48,320 --> 00:54:50,279
Speaker 13: guys are doing a lot of news, et cetera. Yeah,

1118
00:54:50,360 --> 00:54:52,200
Speaker 13: we're doing some of that, but we're doing more is

1119
00:54:52,239 --> 00:54:54,960
Speaker 13: talking about strategies about how to learn about how to

1120
00:54:55,000 --> 00:54:57,720
Speaker 13: think about risk. Because the biggest thing that the average

1121
00:54:57,760 --> 00:55:00,839
Speaker 13: person at home doesn't truly understand yet. I shouldn't say

1122
00:55:00,840 --> 00:55:03,239
Speaker 13: it doesn't understand yet newer people particularly and as you

1123
00:55:03,280 --> 00:55:05,560
Speaker 13: go up, what I love about the market the most?

1124
00:55:05,600 --> 00:55:08,360
Speaker 13: That humble says you know from your background, yep, you

1125
00:55:08,400 --> 00:55:10,359
Speaker 13: know we started in the business almost the same time.

1126
00:55:10,520 --> 00:55:13,640
Speaker 13: Is it humbles you every single day and you can

1127
00:55:13,719 --> 00:55:16,520
Speaker 13: take losing days, you just can't get blown out. And

1128
00:55:16,680 --> 00:55:19,680
Speaker 13: understanding how risk works is the biggest thing the average

1129
00:55:19,680 --> 00:55:22,080
Speaker 13: person has to do if they're going to have success

1130
00:55:22,080 --> 00:55:23,040
Speaker 13: long term in the markets.

1131
00:55:23,120 --> 00:55:25,560
Speaker 5: So what is your platform now, IG Group North North America.

1132
00:55:25,600 --> 00:55:26,080
Speaker 5: What do you so?

1133
00:55:26,120 --> 00:55:28,640
Speaker 13: IG is the parent company out of London. We're listed

1134
00:55:28,680 --> 00:55:31,720
Speaker 13: on the London Stock Exchange and our IgG and Tasty

1135
00:55:31,800 --> 00:55:35,200
Speaker 13: Trade is our brokerage firm in the US, and so

1136
00:55:35,480 --> 00:55:39,000
Speaker 13: you know a tasty trade dot com and anything I

1137
00:55:39,000 --> 00:55:41,360
Speaker 13: can help anybody with JJ at tasty trade dot com.

1138
00:55:41,360 --> 00:55:45,879
Speaker 13: But you know all that we want to provide. We're

1139
00:55:46,080 --> 00:55:48,160
Speaker 13: kind of a fintech company where you consider ourselves. We

1140
00:55:48,200 --> 00:55:52,359
Speaker 13: build great platforms that incorporate anything a retail trader would

1141
00:55:52,440 --> 00:55:55,600
Speaker 13: need so that they can interact with the markets in

1142
00:55:55,640 --> 00:55:58,320
Speaker 13: a way that hopefully is simple for them to understand.

1143
00:55:58,640 --> 00:56:01,720
Speaker 13: And also if they want to just trade equities. Wonderful

1144
00:56:01,760 --> 00:56:04,400
Speaker 13: if they want to be somebody who trades futures with options,

1145
00:56:04,400 --> 00:56:05,680
Speaker 13: et cetera. We have the tools for that.

1146
00:56:05,920 --> 00:56:10,319
Speaker 5: Your audience retail. Our audience is one retail. Okay, So

1147
00:56:10,360 --> 00:56:12,439
Speaker 5: but for the institutions, how did they trade?

1148
00:56:12,480 --> 00:56:15,120
Speaker 1: I mean did they Like in my day, you just

1149
00:56:15,520 --> 00:56:17,319
Speaker 1: if I had to buy three hundred thousand of pan am,

1150
00:56:17,320 --> 00:56:19,640
Speaker 1: I'd go see who on PanAm? I start bidding them

1151
00:56:19,680 --> 00:56:23,480
Speaker 1: for Now it's you go to citadel or to sell.

1152
00:56:23,960 --> 00:56:25,719
Speaker 13: So you know, it's the citadels.

1153
00:56:25,719 --> 00:56:26,960
Speaker 8: The virtues of the world are.

1154
00:56:27,200 --> 00:56:29,839
Speaker 13: They have a market making business, so they'll take the

1155
00:56:29,920 --> 00:56:32,160
Speaker 13: other side of anything anybody wants to do, and they

1156
00:56:32,200 --> 00:56:34,839
Speaker 13: operate on volume, and they operate on speed. They they

1157
00:56:34,880 --> 00:56:37,520
Speaker 13: provide a very important function for the markets. And I

1158
00:56:37,520 --> 00:56:40,359
Speaker 13: think it's sometimes underrated what the market makers do. Maybe

1159
00:56:40,400 --> 00:56:42,080
Speaker 13: I'm a little buias because I started my career as

1160
00:56:42,080 --> 00:56:46,040
Speaker 13: a marketmaker, But you know, if somebody wants to come

1161
00:56:46,040 --> 00:56:47,360
Speaker 13: in and sell, you'll buy them. Somebody wants to come

1162
00:56:47,400 --> 00:56:48,640
Speaker 13: in and buy, you'll sell them. And you do that

1163
00:56:48,719 --> 00:56:51,279
Speaker 13: all day every day. You take advantage of a little

1164
00:56:51,280 --> 00:56:53,560
Speaker 13: bit of a small, small spread which is very small,

1165
00:56:53,640 --> 00:56:57,160
Speaker 13: but outside that you're putting on positions all day which

1166
00:56:57,200 --> 00:57:00,359
Speaker 13: help you make money. Also, now when somebody comes with

1167
00:57:01,120 --> 00:57:05,640
Speaker 13: a big block to buy, they may call around still

1168
00:57:05,680 --> 00:57:08,279
Speaker 13: that that market still exists, because think about it on

1169
00:57:09,160 --> 00:57:13,040
Speaker 13: if you're on an electronic screen and the market, you know,

1170
00:57:13,400 --> 00:57:15,960
Speaker 13: many people see it like ten by ten, which usually

1171
00:57:16,000 --> 00:57:17,920
Speaker 13: means a thousand by a thousand thousand to buy, a

1172
00:57:17,960 --> 00:57:19,800
Speaker 13: thousand of sell, and all of a sudden you see

1173
00:57:19,840 --> 00:57:22,800
Speaker 13: like a three thousand number up there. Somebody's got three

1174
00:57:22,840 --> 00:57:25,000
Speaker 13: hundred thousand chairs to buy. Obviously, is going to tilt

1175
00:57:25,000 --> 00:57:28,240
Speaker 13: the market. So that's why when people hear about all

1176
00:57:28,280 --> 00:57:30,400
Speaker 13: the algorithms and stuff, they may say, oh my god,

1177
00:57:30,440 --> 00:57:33,360
Speaker 13: that's terrible they're using them. They actually serve a function,

1178
00:57:33,760 --> 00:57:36,360
Speaker 13: and that is so that firms don't have to necessarily

1179
00:57:36,400 --> 00:57:38,560
Speaker 13: tip their hand when they do have big blocks to buy.

1180
00:57:38,800 --> 00:57:41,480
Speaker 13: They can buy them in smaller amounts without actually making

1181
00:57:41,520 --> 00:57:43,160
Speaker 13: the market go crazy one way or the other.

1182
00:57:43,400 --> 00:57:45,040
Speaker 1: All right, So if I walked onto a you know,

1183
00:57:45,320 --> 00:57:47,560
Speaker 1: gome sas trading desk, it wouldn't look anything like back

1184
00:57:47,560 --> 00:57:47,920
Speaker 1: in the day.

1185
00:57:48,000 --> 00:57:49,920
Speaker 13: Right now, it still would look like it did. There

1186
00:57:50,000 --> 00:57:53,720
Speaker 13: certainly be a lot less people, okay, absolutely, and the electron.

1187
00:57:53,840 --> 00:57:58,640
Speaker 13: You know, the amount of technology they're using is absolutely

1188
00:57:58,680 --> 00:58:02,440
Speaker 13: amazing overall, and back when you were on the desk,

1189
00:58:02,520 --> 00:58:04,560
Speaker 13: you know you might have had somebody Paul might have

1190
00:58:04,640 --> 00:58:06,720
Speaker 13: been responsible. I believe you used pan Am as an

1191
00:58:06,720 --> 00:58:10,720
Speaker 13: example for pan Am right for the airlines. Right now,

1192
00:58:10,960 --> 00:58:13,680
Speaker 13: you may have one person in charge of one hundred

1193
00:58:14,000 --> 00:58:17,160
Speaker 13: different stocks etcare keeping track of everything on there. So

1194
00:58:17,400 --> 00:58:19,600
Speaker 13: we've used technology to the advantage of everyone.

1195
00:58:19,920 --> 00:58:20,800
Speaker 5: JJ, thanks for coming in.

1196
00:58:20,920 --> 00:58:22,240
Speaker 4: Fascinating, it's a lot of fun.

1197
00:58:22,400 --> 00:58:26,520
Speaker 1: JJ Kinahan, he's the CEO of IG Group North America.

1198
00:58:26,560 --> 00:58:29,120
Speaker 1: Talking a little bit of trading down in the pits.

1199
00:58:29,320 --> 00:58:30,320
Speaker 5: This is Bloomberg.

1200
00:58:30,480 --> 00:58:33,600
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg Markets podcasts. You can

1201
00:58:33,600 --> 00:58:37,400
Speaker 2: subscribe and listen to interviews at Apple Podcasts or whatever

1202
00:58:37,480 --> 00:58:41,200
Speaker 2: podcast platform you prefer. I'm Matt Miller. I'm on Twitter

1203
00:58:41,400 --> 00:58:43,320
Speaker 2: at Matt Miller nineteen seventy three.

1204
00:58:43,760 --> 00:58:46,160
Speaker 5: And I'm Paul Sweeney. I'm on Twitter at pt Sweeney.

1205
00:58:46,280 --> 00:58:48,960
Speaker 1: Before the podcast, you can always catch us worldwide at

1206
00:58:48,960 --> 00:58:50,720
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio.