WEBVTT - Thinking Sideways: Moorgate Tube Crash 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:03.000 Thinking Sideways is not brought to you by giant headphone 0:00:03.080 --> 0:00:05.480 cans that make you look like a Cyberman from Dr 0:00:05.519 --> 0:00:09.240 Who Now. Instead, TSP is brought to you by sleep Phones, 0:00:09.400 --> 0:00:12.600 the world's most comfortable headphones for sleeping, traveling, or just 0:00:12.640 --> 0:00:14.920 curling up to listen to us sad, scary little mysteries 0:00:14.960 --> 0:00:18.040 like ours this week from the London Underground. You'll find 0:00:18.040 --> 0:00:20.720 out about that soon enough. With sleep Bones you get 0:00:20.720 --> 0:00:23.720 super thin, high quality audio speakers tucked inside of super 0:00:23.760 --> 0:00:27.440 company head been. They're soft and really comfortable to wear. 0:00:27.440 --> 0:00:30.520 I now and Devin, you like them too, right? 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And welcome again to 0:01:22.360 --> 0:01:26.560 another episode of Thinking Sideways. I am Steve, as always 0:01:26.640 --> 0:01:32.920 joined by Devon Joe, and as usual we've got another 0:01:32.959 --> 0:01:36.200 mystery for you. This week we're gonna be talking about 0:01:36.240 --> 0:01:40.560 the Morgate tube crash, which was suggested to us by Richard. 0:01:40.760 --> 0:01:42.880 Thanks Richard, yes, so thank you, Richard. I gotta be 0:01:42.920 --> 0:01:44.960 honest with you when you first put up, you know, 0:01:45.040 --> 0:01:46.840 on our little spreadsheet that you were going to do 0:01:46.880 --> 0:01:53.040 this with like, boy, that's a dumb, super boring dumb. 0:01:53.680 --> 0:01:59.040 Actually turns out super interesting, way more interesting than originally anticipating. 0:01:59.320 --> 0:02:02.480 So good job, good job. More controversial too than you 0:02:02.480 --> 0:02:05.760 would think. Absolutely so. For folks who don't know, let's 0:02:05.800 --> 0:02:07.360 give a little bit of a primer here, as we 0:02:07.400 --> 0:02:12.200 always like to do. The In nineteen seventy five the 0:02:12.240 --> 0:02:15.720 Morgate Tube grash happened, which was the crash of a 0:02:15.880 --> 0:02:19.680 passenger train in the London underground and that was not 0:02:19.720 --> 0:02:22.600 having it for a landing pilot lost control, not that 0:02:22.680 --> 0:02:26.040 at all like that. No, it's a train, not a plane. Wrong, wrong, 0:02:26.160 --> 0:02:28.920 wrong aim. For those of you not familiar with the 0:02:28.960 --> 0:02:32.880 London Underground a k a. The Tube. It's London's rapid 0:02:32.919 --> 0:02:37.240 transit system and their rapid transit train system, which is 0:02:37.280 --> 0:02:41.600 both above and blowground. It's commuter light rail correct, much 0:02:41.600 --> 0:02:44.200 like the New York subways. The subway. People are familiar 0:02:44.240 --> 0:02:46.079 with the subway in America, we probably don't need to 0:02:46.080 --> 0:02:49.200 spell it out in two graphic. Although the Tube is 0:02:49.280 --> 0:02:52.680 much older. It's started in it's almost as old as 0:02:52.720 --> 0:02:56.520 Boston system. I'm kidding. And I was like, wait a second, 0:02:56.560 --> 0:02:59.160 because you know, London started in nineteen o four, although 0:02:59.520 --> 0:03:01.680 or not London but New York. Although I remember it 0:03:01.720 --> 0:03:04.679 was weird at first the London train or the New 0:03:04.800 --> 0:03:10.200 York train wasn't actually underground, it was just below grade. Partially. 0:03:10.680 --> 0:03:12.840 It was the weirdest train system in the world. But 0:03:12.919 --> 0:03:16.919 that's a completely different conversation. Actually, New York has got 0:03:17.040 --> 0:03:19.760 like this, this phantom subway tunnel. This guy actually got 0:03:19.919 --> 0:03:22.959 a train and everything that's been sealed off for years. Yeah, 0:03:23.000 --> 0:03:25.079 I heard about that to do an episode on it. Yeah, 0:03:25.160 --> 0:03:27.640 this sounds familiar. Yeah, it's not bringing a bell at 0:03:27.639 --> 0:03:31.960 the moment. Yeah. So the accident that we're talking about 0:03:32.000 --> 0:03:37.040 in it takes place on the Highbury branch, which from 0:03:37.160 --> 0:03:39.000 what I can tell from the maps of the time, 0:03:40.120 --> 0:03:45.920 was a short north south line that ran between two 0:03:46.160 --> 0:03:51.040 larger lines, and it actually connects like three or maybe 0:03:51.040 --> 0:03:54.400 four lines. Well, it has stations, so that's what you need. 0:03:54.560 --> 0:03:56.320 That's the thing about the tube is when you read 0:03:56.360 --> 0:04:00.280 that map. I looked at it realized there's five stops, 0:04:00.320 --> 0:04:03.640 but two of those stops are on different partitions portions 0:04:03.680 --> 0:04:06.200 of the same line, and then one's on the north. 0:04:06.280 --> 0:04:09.040 But long story short, it was considered to be part 0:04:09.080 --> 0:04:13.680 of the North Line. It's no longer in service. Yeah, 0:04:13.680 --> 0:04:15.640 it was. I'm not surprised that it's not in service 0:04:15.680 --> 0:04:18.039 because it was for passenger trains for the two because 0:04:18.040 --> 0:04:21.160 it was such a teeny tiny little line. Well, it's 0:04:21.200 --> 0:04:23.360 not very efficient if you connect. If you get those 0:04:23.400 --> 0:04:26.159 lines more directly, that means to train rides instead of 0:04:26.200 --> 0:04:28.160 three train rides for a lot of people. I can 0:04:28.200 --> 0:04:29.920 see where a lot of people would favor that. I 0:04:30.600 --> 0:04:32.919 totally have the same thought. I saw where the benefit 0:04:33.000 --> 0:04:35.560 for the commuter was, but not for the operator of 0:04:35.560 --> 0:04:37.920 the rail line. Just for history sake, I looked it up. 0:04:38.040 --> 0:04:42.240 The Boston area was eighteen thirty ishes when their railroad, 0:04:42.480 --> 0:04:46.240 their underground railroad started right, yeah? Uh? Is that the 0:04:46.279 --> 0:04:53.800 one for slaves or the one for just commuters? Sorry? Okay, 0:04:53.920 --> 0:04:55.960 to begin at the beginning of the story. On the 0:04:56.080 --> 0:05:00.560 day that things happened, the morning of February, the train 0:05:00.839 --> 0:05:04.640 left from Drayton Park, which was the northernmost stop on 0:05:04.760 --> 0:05:09.160 that line, and it left that stop to make its 0:05:09.240 --> 0:05:12.680 third loop of the day that particular train set and 0:05:12.720 --> 0:05:16.000 it left supposedly thirty seconds late. I see it always 0:05:16.040 --> 0:05:18.840 listed as having left at either eight thirty eight or 0:05:18.880 --> 0:05:22.320 eight thirty nine am. I'm not positive which, but I'm 0:05:22.320 --> 0:05:24.480 not going to split the thirty seconds to to worry 0:05:24.480 --> 0:05:28.040 about it. At eight forty six, the train was approaching 0:05:28.040 --> 0:05:31.400 its final destination, which was Morgate, which was the final 0:05:31.440 --> 0:05:42.080 stops super stubby Yeah, and it includes stops yeah stops 0:05:42.200 --> 0:05:45.760 yeah yeah, got it? Okay, yeah, super stubby line. So 0:05:45.960 --> 0:05:50.320 it's approaching its final destination, and the train should have 0:05:50.720 --> 0:05:54.159 been reducing its speed to come into the station, to 0:05:54.200 --> 0:05:57.240 come into that stop. At at most it should have 0:05:57.240 --> 0:06:00.839 been traveling at fifteen miles per hour it translates to 0:06:01.279 --> 0:06:05.479 four kilometers per hour, but instead it was going and 0:06:05.720 --> 0:06:10.359 estimated thirty to forty miles per hour, which translates to 0:06:10.480 --> 0:06:13.800 forty eight to sixty four kilometers an hour, so it 0:06:13.880 --> 0:06:19.520 was full more than double. It's a it's maximum allowable speed. 0:06:19.560 --> 0:06:21.680 I wonder what people on the platform we're doing. I mean, 0:06:21.680 --> 0:06:23.440 I know that I'd be running for the exit, but 0:06:23.480 --> 0:06:26.000 I wonder if people just stood there. And it sounds 0:06:26.040 --> 0:06:27.960 like a bunch of people stood there and watched it 0:06:27.960 --> 0:06:32.279 because it happened so fast, just happened too quickly to 0:06:32.400 --> 0:06:36.120 have much time to react. And so what happens is 0:06:36.120 --> 0:06:39.400 that the stop the tunnel for the train doesn't end 0:06:39.440 --> 0:06:42.760 at the end of the platform. It continued on another 0:06:42.920 --> 0:06:46.880 sixty six feet, which is twenty so there's twenty more 0:06:46.920 --> 0:06:50.040 of tunnel. And that tunnel had things in it that 0:06:50.120 --> 0:06:55.400 were meant to stop a runaway train. Well, yeah, that's 0:06:55.480 --> 0:06:57.520 it wasn't meant for something this fast. But it had 0:06:57.600 --> 0:07:01.440 what's called the sand drag, and then it also had 0:07:01.800 --> 0:07:05.960 a hydraulic buffer. So sand drag literally is just sand 0:07:06.279 --> 0:07:09.160 piled on the rails, in this instance two feet deep, 0:07:09.840 --> 0:07:13.720 and then the ram. It's basically you've seen this at 0:07:13.760 --> 0:07:16.200 the end of on TV, probably the end of the line. 0:07:16.560 --> 0:07:19.840 There's a block or a metal frame with a ram 0:07:19.960 --> 0:07:23.160 or hydraulic arm that is meant to absorb the speed 0:07:23.160 --> 0:07:27.640 of the train horizontally to stop it without making a 0:07:27.640 --> 0:07:31.920 major crash. Well, two problems, as we already identified. First off, 0:07:31.960 --> 0:07:34.400 the train is going way too fast and it blew 0:07:34.600 --> 0:07:38.280 through the drag. And the second problem was that the 0:07:38.360 --> 0:07:43.640 hydrafl buffer wasn't working. It was actually broken, So the 0:07:43.640 --> 0:07:45.840 only thing that probably helped slow the train down was 0:07:46.040 --> 0:07:49.680 colliding with the thing and ripping it out of the ground. Yeah. Yeah, 0:07:49.680 --> 0:07:51.600 they probably should have stepped with the other kind of 0:07:51.680 --> 0:07:53.960 hydraulic popper, which is just all those fifty five yell 0:07:54.000 --> 0:07:56.320 and dromes filled with water, like having the freeways here 0:07:56.360 --> 0:07:59.880 in the States, right, Yeah, that can't break down too easy. Yeah, no, 0:08:00.000 --> 0:08:03.160 oh no, it so so it was bad. I mean really, 0:08:03.200 --> 0:08:06.720 it tore through there, and obviously it hit the end 0:08:06.960 --> 0:08:10.040 of the tunnel because the tunnel did end after that 0:08:10.160 --> 0:08:14.920 hydraulic ram. To make things worse though, is that if 0:08:14.920 --> 0:08:17.920 you think about the tube, it's in a tunnel, and 0:08:17.960 --> 0:08:21.040 that tunnel is designed to only be a little bit 0:08:21.120 --> 0:08:25.520 wider all the way around than the trains themselves, which 0:08:26.200 --> 0:08:29.840 if I remember right, I think the tunnel is supposed 0:08:29.840 --> 0:08:34.760 to be about ten feet in diameter, and I which 0:08:34.960 --> 0:08:39.120 is roughly three ms. It's a little less than three meters. Well, 0:08:39.120 --> 0:08:43.240 the problem was this particular piece of line was designed 0:08:43.440 --> 0:08:46.440 to actually haul cargo cars, so it had they had 0:08:46.480 --> 0:08:49.559 to be bigger, so it was actually thirteen feet wide 0:08:50.000 --> 0:08:55.280 and sixteen feet tall. That's not great. So the danger 0:08:55.320 --> 0:08:57.480 in that is that this train that comes blowing through 0:08:57.760 --> 0:09:00.360 and should have just hit the end of the tunnel 0:09:00.440 --> 0:09:05.400 and compressed entirely horizontally, is now allowed to jump off 0:09:05.440 --> 0:09:08.880 of the tracks, hit the ceiling, hit the walls, ping 0:09:08.920 --> 0:09:11.440 pong all around, and bend in a whole bunch of 0:09:11.440 --> 0:09:16.079 places and therefore collapse not only horizontally, but bend vertically. 0:09:16.240 --> 0:09:19.880 And it did. The lead car was bent in three 0:09:20.040 --> 0:09:22.200 or in two places, so it was a total of 0:09:22.240 --> 0:09:26.760 three or something. Yeah, it was more of you almost, Yeah, 0:09:26.800 --> 0:09:29.200 it was. It was really crazy the way the thing 0:09:29.400 --> 0:09:32.840 just I mean it, it did not was not designed 0:09:33.000 --> 0:09:35.679 to take that kind of impact, and it showed based 0:09:35.720 --> 0:09:38.880 on that tunnel. Although actually having a slightly wider tunnel 0:09:39.000 --> 0:09:42.160 was beneficial because it allowed us like rescue workers to 0:09:42.280 --> 0:09:45.280 squeeze between the train and the tunnel and forward that 0:09:45.440 --> 0:09:48.760 was only benefit that helped a little bit, a little bit. 0:09:48.960 --> 0:09:53.760 I mean, standard tube widths are they're you know, small, right, 0:09:53.800 --> 0:09:56.240 so it's a it's a tight fit, but they are 0:09:56.320 --> 0:10:00.480 designed to be able to vacate people through them. I mean, 0:10:00.520 --> 0:10:02.720 most of them are. I don't know about the London Underground, 0:10:02.720 --> 0:10:04.839 I haven't been in that one in a long time, 0:10:05.280 --> 0:10:07.840 but at least the ones like in Chicago and New York, 0:10:07.960 --> 0:10:10.440 like you have to have a way for passengers to 0:10:10.600 --> 0:10:14.000 exit the train and evacuate on either side, so there's 0:10:14.120 --> 0:10:16.600 you know, it's not wide, but it's a couple of feet. 0:10:16.960 --> 0:10:18.880 But in this case, you know when when when the 0:10:18.880 --> 0:10:25.120 trains hit, they sort of like crump. So that's where 0:10:25.120 --> 0:10:27.839 the problem. If it was a properly sized tube that 0:10:27.920 --> 0:10:29.440 would have it would have been a ten point two. 0:10:29.559 --> 0:10:32.800 It would have sealed a shut probably yeah yeah, well yeah, 0:10:33.240 --> 0:10:35.559 close to it anyway, yeah yeah yeah. If you look 0:10:35.559 --> 0:10:38.000 at this particular train, and we'll talk about this later, 0:10:38.080 --> 0:10:42.000 is part of what's known as the Stock and nineteen 0:10:42.040 --> 0:10:44.600 and most of the tube trains, they have a curved 0:10:44.600 --> 0:10:47.480 domey rough to them, but then at some point the 0:10:47.600 --> 0:10:51.560 sides of the car end up just running vertically up 0:10:51.600 --> 0:10:53.880 and down, because you've gotta have that flat edge, and 0:10:53.920 --> 0:10:57.439 that's the space that would allow people to somewhat make 0:10:57.480 --> 0:10:59.520 their way through, though not easily. They could get their 0:10:59.520 --> 0:11:03.280 way through. As to what you're referring to, So, as 0:11:03.360 --> 0:11:09.840 I always say, not surprisingly, a massive emergency crew was assembled, 0:11:09.880 --> 0:11:12.720 a massive rescue operation. What I want to know isn't 0:11:13.120 --> 0:11:15.959 you probably don't know this, but how big a boom 0:11:16.000 --> 0:11:19.520 and how far away wasn't heard? I do not know that, 0:11:19.600 --> 0:11:23.280 to be honest with you. It probably did, but I 0:11:23.280 --> 0:11:25.320 don't know how far it would have traveled, actually, because 0:11:25.360 --> 0:11:27.480 if you think about it, it's a lot of brick 0:11:27.559 --> 0:11:30.280 and concrete. But it's also in a tunnel system that 0:11:30.360 --> 0:11:34.160 has other trains making their own noise, and as you know, 0:11:34.360 --> 0:11:37.480 certain noises will help cancel each other out. So I 0:11:37.800 --> 0:11:42.640 don't know, I have no idea. But still, boom, Yeah 0:11:42.720 --> 0:11:44.160 it was. It was a hell of a boom. But 0:11:44.720 --> 0:11:48.319 rescue workers they show up, they find that the station 0:11:48.440 --> 0:11:53.839 is dark, it's it's smokey and dusty, and they had 0:11:53.840 --> 0:11:56.480 to work to get the people out. Now, what happens 0:11:56.520 --> 0:12:01.760 here is that the train goes into that an extra 0:12:01.800 --> 0:12:03.760 bit of tunnel, but the last three cars are still 0:12:03.840 --> 0:12:06.679 at the platform, so the people in those cars they 0:12:06.720 --> 0:12:10.400 can open the doors and they can get out, lucky them. 0:12:10.440 --> 0:12:12.959 But for everybody in the front three cars, it wasn't 0:12:12.960 --> 0:12:16.600 as good. And the rescue workers had to go down 0:12:16.640 --> 0:12:18.480 that side of the tunnel on the left and the 0:12:18.559 --> 0:12:21.240 right as you were talking about Devon, and they literally 0:12:21.280 --> 0:12:25.040 had to cut the cars open because the doors were 0:12:25.160 --> 0:12:30.400 just completely few shut in the compression process. I'm assuming 0:12:30.440 --> 0:12:33.760 that they were using saws and not torches when they 0:12:33.800 --> 0:12:35.800 were cutting these people out, but I don't know that 0:12:35.840 --> 0:12:40.440 for sure. They might have the temperature, and there a 0:12:40.440 --> 0:12:45.200 lot they did because the temperature the fire brigade, I 0:12:45.240 --> 0:12:47.600 can't think of who it was that that one of 0:12:47.600 --> 0:12:50.040 the responders. I read a whole bunch of stuff on 0:12:50.080 --> 0:12:52.360 their site, but they talked about, you know, they show 0:12:52.400 --> 0:12:56.000 up in full fire garb, and then they're quickly stripping 0:12:56.080 --> 0:13:00.199 down to basically just T shirts and their pants if 0:13:00.240 --> 0:13:05.080 they can. Because the temperatures rose quite quickly to nine 0:13:05.360 --> 0:13:10.640 to a hundred and twenty degrees fahrenheit or converting that, 0:13:10.640 --> 0:13:15.120 that's thirty two degrees celsius. So it's freaking hot. Because 0:13:15.280 --> 0:13:17.520 I just sort of engineers mind, I was sort of 0:13:17.559 --> 0:13:20.520 thinking about the logistics of that situation. I'm thinking that 0:13:20.600 --> 0:13:25.280 now I bet they have like some gigantic fans that 0:13:25.320 --> 0:13:31.040 they can break. Wouldn't be for this and something that's magnitude. 0:13:31.559 --> 0:13:34.199 They're probably probably about some gigantic fans to make sure 0:13:34.240 --> 0:13:36.719 this doesn't happen again. Though, Oh my god, it must 0:13:36.720 --> 0:13:38.800 have been uncomfortable down there. This has the heat. I mean, 0:13:38.840 --> 0:13:41.880 just imagine breathing all that smoke and dust and you know, 0:13:41.960 --> 0:13:44.720 dead bodies and yeah, no, I can't imagine that it 0:13:44.840 --> 0:13:47.400 was good. Now, as we said, you know, they got 0:13:47.400 --> 0:13:49.280 to cut these cars open because they've compressed in. The 0:13:49.320 --> 0:13:53.480 doors are all squished shut and sealed. To give you 0:13:53.520 --> 0:13:55.679 a little bit of context, because I've said this a 0:13:55.679 --> 0:13:59.480 couple of times, everything was compressed shut. For context, each 0:13:59.480 --> 0:14:02.760 of the car ours that went into that tunnel was 0:14:03.200 --> 0:14:07.240 they were fifty two ft long. That tunnel was sixty 0:14:07.280 --> 0:14:10.400 six ft long. There was two and a half cars 0:14:10.720 --> 0:14:13.360 crammed into that sixty six ft of tunnel, which means 0:14:13.520 --> 0:14:16.600 take two popkins and just empty popkins and squeeze them 0:14:16.600 --> 0:14:18.800 down to the length of one. And I don't give 0:14:18.800 --> 0:14:21.560 you a really good idea of how much damage that does. 0:14:22.400 --> 0:14:30.680 It's it's pretty phenomenal. Indeed, luckily I wasn't around. Not surprisingly, 0:14:31.440 --> 0:14:34.880 not everybody survived the accident. There were a total of 0:14:34.920 --> 0:14:38.680 three hundred people on the train. Of those three hundred, 0:14:38.920 --> 0:14:42.600 forty two people died on the scene, and I see 0:14:42.680 --> 0:14:46.240 conflicting accounts that it's either one or two people died 0:14:46.440 --> 0:14:49.640 after the fact from the injuries that they sustained. A 0:14:49.640 --> 0:14:54.160 total of seventy four additional people were treated four injuries 0:14:54.160 --> 0:14:57.280 that they got, So that's that's over a hundred, still 0:14:57.280 --> 0:15:00.480 over a third of the passenger. But somehow like hundred 0:15:00.520 --> 0:15:06.760 and a hundred eighty people walked away with like minor injury. 0:15:06.960 --> 0:15:10.040 So for a crash of this magnitude, that's pretty incredible. 0:15:10.200 --> 0:15:13.440 The people in the first two cars were the majority 0:15:13.480 --> 0:15:16.200 of the death. It's so the people in the back 0:15:16.440 --> 0:15:19.640 back couple of cars. They got tossed around, but they 0:15:19.640 --> 0:15:22.440 were in almost no damage of dying, and they fell 0:15:22.520 --> 0:15:25.520 the wrong way. Crazy. I wonder if there's a major 0:15:25.600 --> 0:15:27.600 trend after that for people to ride in the back 0:15:29.320 --> 0:15:32.040 I you know, I don't know, that's a that's a 0:15:32.080 --> 0:15:35.760 good question. I have no idea. Would in the first 0:15:35.840 --> 0:15:38.960 I think it's in the first eighteen hours all of 0:15:39.560 --> 0:15:44.280 the injured passengers got off the train. The final body 0:15:44.640 --> 0:15:47.920 wasn't removed from the train though, for four days total. 0:15:48.280 --> 0:15:50.360 But do we know how long it took, on average 0:15:50.400 --> 0:15:52.760 for them to remove the rest of the dead bodies. 0:15:52.960 --> 0:15:55.240 We don't. We don't know how long it took to 0:15:55.280 --> 0:15:57.640 remove those those other dead bodies, which I know where 0:15:57.640 --> 0:15:59.560 you're going for labor stuff. We don't. We don't know 0:16:00.040 --> 0:16:02.320 how thought it was like they got almost everybody out 0:16:02.360 --> 0:16:05.080 in the first twenty four hours too. I believe it 0:16:05.160 --> 0:16:08.960 was all of the people who were injured and a 0:16:09.080 --> 0:16:11.680 majority of the casualties. But I have a feeling the 0:16:11.720 --> 0:16:14.280 people that were in the very first car were the 0:16:14.360 --> 0:16:18.120 hardest to get because of the way it compressed and bent. Yeah, 0:16:18.160 --> 0:16:21.320 well it took him four days to get Yeah. They 0:16:21.400 --> 0:16:24.600 The last body that they get out is the driver 0:16:24.760 --> 0:16:27.880 of the train, the motor min as they're referred to, 0:16:28.560 --> 0:16:33.440 and the particularly driver. His name was Leslie newsoen He 0:16:33.760 --> 0:16:36.120 and he was a fifty six year old guy. He'd 0:16:36.160 --> 0:16:39.480 been working for the two for about six years at 0:16:39.520 --> 0:16:43.040 that point. He six or seven years though for the 0:16:43.080 --> 0:16:46.400 first until the last year of his life. He'd been 0:16:46.400 --> 0:16:49.200 working as a guard, because you gotta remember, somebody's got 0:16:49.200 --> 0:16:51.560 to walk through and help with the doors and keep 0:16:51.600 --> 0:16:55.080 an eye on the passengers so no bad stuff happens. 0:16:55.080 --> 0:16:56.680 And that's what the guard is for, and that's what 0:16:56.760 --> 0:16:58.880 he did. But we do presume that the guard is 0:16:58.920 --> 0:17:03.400 at least, you know, peripherally trained in do not operation. 0:17:03.600 --> 0:17:07.120 That is not the case, not even at all. RED 0:17:07.119 --> 0:17:10.960 guards is supposed to be trained. And how the trains function. Well, 0:17:10.960 --> 0:17:13.480 I understood that they were training in the basic functions, 0:17:13.480 --> 0:17:16.760 but they had to actually go through training to drive 0:17:16.920 --> 0:17:18.960 a train. They might be able to operate. That's why 0:17:19.000 --> 0:17:23.720 I said it's peripherally educated. Okay, yeah, but they understand 0:17:23.720 --> 0:17:26.480 things like especially how the brake systems were. You wouldn't 0:17:26.520 --> 0:17:29.639 need to know how like all that stuff. Okay, I 0:17:29.920 --> 0:17:33.359 guess I was taking that into larger context the Okay, 0:17:33.400 --> 0:17:36.600 now I got you vaguely understand how the thing works. Yes, yes, 0:17:37.080 --> 0:17:39.200 so that if an emergency happened, they could take over, 0:17:39.600 --> 0:17:41.680 like pull the brake handle. Yeah. And actually, I gotta 0:17:41.720 --> 0:17:44.680 tell you, I have seen video of people driving the trains, 0:17:44.680 --> 0:17:46.560 and actually I think I could do it. It's not 0:17:46.720 --> 0:17:50.400 a complex machine to operate, and I will say that. 0:17:51.880 --> 0:17:53.479 I was about to say, I don't believe it's an 0:17:53.520 --> 0:17:56.639 easy machine to operate, but I don't believe it's complex. 0:17:56.640 --> 0:17:58.840 And well I know that, I know that. Right now, 0:17:58.880 --> 0:18:01.600 there's there's some too operated that's listening to this and 0:18:01.600 --> 0:18:03.880 he's fuming, and I just want to say, dude, i'd 0:18:03.880 --> 0:18:06.240 realize your job was harder than it looks. But set 0:18:06.320 --> 0:18:10.679 us an email. Anyway, Yeah, where were we Well, what 0:18:10.680 --> 0:18:12.520 we were gonna say is we were talking about Leslie 0:18:12.560 --> 0:18:15.879 Newsoon did go les I don't know that, to be honest. 0:18:15.960 --> 0:18:18.680 I thought I've seen it online, people calling him last 0:18:18.680 --> 0:18:20.480 but I was just gonna use his last name to 0:18:20.480 --> 0:18:23.600 be safe, right, let's just go Okay. So, by all accounts, 0:18:23.680 --> 0:18:26.160 Newsome was a good driver, and he took his job seriously. 0:18:26.280 --> 0:18:28.800 Like I said, he'd only been driving trains for the 0:18:28.840 --> 0:18:33.800 past year, and he according to his his wife and children, 0:18:34.119 --> 0:18:36.960 he wasn't a drinker and when he had a drink drink, 0:18:37.000 --> 0:18:38.960 which was very rare, it was only on holidays and 0:18:38.960 --> 0:18:42.840 he might have one or two brown ales. He only 0:18:42.880 --> 0:18:46.119 called out of work for a total of two days 0:18:46.320 --> 0:18:48.520 in the fire. The six or seven years he worked 0:18:48.520 --> 0:18:50.879 for the tube, So that's a good record. And his 0:18:50.960 --> 0:18:53.760 coworkers said that he didn't really have many friends, but 0:18:53.840 --> 0:18:57.280 generally he was a very cautious driver. He was known 0:18:57.320 --> 0:19:01.520 to the typical process, and this is a very general statement, 0:19:01.720 --> 0:19:04.720 so please understand that was there was a point where 0:19:04.760 --> 0:19:07.639 you should start to begin breaking to get to a 0:19:07.640 --> 0:19:10.679 minimum speed and then stop at the platform. He was 0:19:10.800 --> 0:19:15.640 known for just shutting off the engines before that minimum 0:19:15.680 --> 0:19:19.840 distance and letting the train coast almost entirely, and so 0:19:20.000 --> 0:19:22.520 he barely had to use the brakes at all. So 0:19:22.560 --> 0:19:25.160 it seems like a nice smooth ride, yes, which I've 0:19:25.160 --> 0:19:28.080 been on some trains that weren't so so I appreciate 0:19:29.240 --> 0:19:30.760 and that might that might have been him. I mean, 0:19:30.800 --> 0:19:33.479 I we'll talk about this a little later. But they 0:19:33.480 --> 0:19:35.399 were also maintenance issues on the train. He might have 0:19:35.400 --> 0:19:36.760 been one of these guys that didn't want to put 0:19:36.800 --> 0:19:38.600 any stress on this brake because he thought, well, I 0:19:38.680 --> 0:19:41.640 might need those something. That is something he was known 0:19:41.720 --> 0:19:45.480 for keeping a logbook of maintenance issues, and so that 0:19:45.600 --> 0:19:47.720 is one thing that was found on in his belongings. 0:19:48.800 --> 0:19:52.960 Trains had some maintenance issues. So overall, though the description 0:19:53.000 --> 0:19:57.520 that we just gave of Nussen does not jive with 0:19:57.800 --> 0:20:03.160 what the official investigation and found and decided because they 0:20:03.240 --> 0:20:08.200 say that the entire incident was due to operator error. Um. 0:20:08.320 --> 0:20:11.480 When you look at the you guys looked through the 0:20:11.480 --> 0:20:14.600 the accident report, it's quite long, although the map at 0:20:14.600 --> 0:20:18.399 the end was really really useful. But according to the 0:20:18.440 --> 0:20:21.879 witnesses who were at the station, Newson was standing up 0:20:21.920 --> 0:20:26.000 and staring straight ahead as the train passed through the 0:20:26.040 --> 0:20:30.600 station with his hand in the full throttle position. Are 0:20:30.600 --> 0:20:33.439 you gonna at some point, I presume we'll talk about 0:20:33.480 --> 0:20:38.760 how these trains are operated, how somebody could say it 0:20:38.880 --> 0:20:41.240 was in the full throttle, probably in much more detail 0:20:41.280 --> 0:20:44.000 than some people really want, because that's the way I 0:20:44.040 --> 0:20:47.240 am with these mechanical bits and pieces. Okay, but we'll 0:20:47.280 --> 0:20:49.880 pause on that until you get there, okay, because well 0:20:49.920 --> 0:20:51.960 we'll hold off. This is still kind of the general stuff. 0:20:52.960 --> 0:20:55.399 Uh So, like I said this, the witnesses said that 0:20:55.440 --> 0:20:57.840 they saw him going through the station with his hands 0:20:57.840 --> 0:21:01.919 in the full throttle position. Ordering to the official investigation, 0:21:02.480 --> 0:21:06.440 they they felt like this witness statement was true because 0:21:06.520 --> 0:21:10.240 they say that when his body was removed from the train, 0:21:11.000 --> 0:21:14.240 it appeared that his hands prior to the impact must 0:21:14.280 --> 0:21:17.560 have been in that position. And they also X rayed 0:21:17.680 --> 0:21:22.320 his arms in his hands because, according to the official investigation, 0:21:22.680 --> 0:21:26.680 what they expected to see was that his bones would 0:21:26.680 --> 0:21:29.719 have been broken in a recognizable manner of a person 0:21:30.080 --> 0:21:32.960 realizing they're going to run into something doing that defensive 0:21:33.000 --> 0:21:35.520 gesture where you put you cross your arms and put 0:21:35.600 --> 0:21:37.600 them in front of your head. We've all seen this 0:21:37.960 --> 0:21:41.800 on TV and movies. That's what they expected. And because 0:21:41.880 --> 0:21:45.359 the breaks in his arms and hands weren't consistent with 0:21:45.440 --> 0:21:47.720 that position, they said, yeah, I know, his hands must 0:21:47.800 --> 0:21:51.879 have been on the controls. They can't say where the 0:21:51.880 --> 0:21:54.639 controls were, but they say his hands had to have 0:21:54.720 --> 0:21:58.640 been on the actual control that well even I mean, 0:21:58.680 --> 0:22:00.600 but even if they were, they can't say, oh, he 0:22:00.680 --> 0:22:04.080 was frantically trying to break or he was accelerating full throttle. 0:22:04.280 --> 0:22:07.000 All they can say is they were probably in the 0:22:07.040 --> 0:22:12.560 same area where the controls were. Yep, that's absolutely right. 0:22:13.119 --> 0:22:16.880 And and to be honest, the um so the statement 0:22:17.000 --> 0:22:20.760 that of his hands where his hands were is a 0:22:20.760 --> 0:22:26.719 bit dodgy to me because drivers typically would operate the train, 0:22:27.040 --> 0:22:30.119 most of them would operate the train without the cab 0:22:30.240 --> 0:22:32.800 light on, so it didn't create glare and stuff like 0:22:32.840 --> 0:22:35.160 that so they can see a head well when coming 0:22:35.240 --> 0:22:37.760 into the station. The inquest did a bunch of tests 0:22:37.760 --> 0:22:40.080 and they had drivers with light onto, the light off, 0:22:40.400 --> 0:22:44.080 with a height off. You can see the general silhouette 0:22:44.200 --> 0:22:48.879 of the person, but you can't actually discern what position 0:22:49.200 --> 0:22:52.480 their hands are in. In other words, full power off, 0:22:52.800 --> 0:22:55.240 pulling the brake, not pulling the brake. You can just 0:22:55.320 --> 0:22:58.680