1 00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:02,559 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. 2 00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:10,080 Speaker 2: A little boy goes into school bright and early one 3 00:00:10,160 --> 00:00:14,560 Speaker 2: morning for his science project, and he's never seen again. 4 00:00:15,600 --> 00:00:19,079 Speaker 2: In the last hours, a major development in the search 5 00:00:19,160 --> 00:00:23,479 Speaker 2: for little Kyne Horman. Good evening, I'm Nancy Grace. This 6 00:00:23,640 --> 00:00:26,000 Speaker 2: is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us in 7 00:00:26,040 --> 00:00:30,440 Speaker 2: the last days. The missing person case of a little boy, 8 00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:36,000 Speaker 2: Kirne Horman is set to be reviewed by the FBI. 9 00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:41,840 Speaker 2: Kyraen disappeared from his own elementary school. His mother has 10 00:00:41,880 --> 00:00:46,640 Speaker 2: accused his then stepmother of being involved. But now a 11 00:00:46,760 --> 00:00:52,200 Speaker 2: fresh look on a cold case. What happened when little 12 00:00:52,280 --> 00:00:53,520 Speaker 2: Kyne disappeared? 13 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:57,480 Speaker 3: Which started as another school morning soon turn into a 14 00:00:57,600 --> 00:01:01,400 Speaker 3: nightmare for parents of seven year old Hyrian Horman, who 15 00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:06,479 Speaker 3: unexplicably vanished from a school science fair, A suspicious drive, 16 00:01:06,800 --> 00:01:10,840 Speaker 3: an alleged accomplice, and a murder. For higher plot, Where 17 00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:12,440 Speaker 3: is little Kyn Horman? 18 00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:16,080 Speaker 2: This is a question that has gone through our minds 19 00:01:16,120 --> 00:01:19,800 Speaker 2: and hearts over and over and over. Joining me an 20 00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:22,000 Speaker 2: all star panel to make sense of what we are 21 00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:25,800 Speaker 2: learning about Kyn's disappearance. But first I want to go 22 00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:30,399 Speaker 2: to a very special guest. Kien's father is joining us. 23 00:01:30,600 --> 00:01:33,880 Speaker 2: Kin Horman Kane, thank you for being with us. 24 00:01:34,080 --> 00:01:35,640 Speaker 4: Hi, thanks for having me Kine. 25 00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:40,759 Speaker 2: I know you've been asked this before, specifically my police 26 00:01:40,840 --> 00:01:44,000 Speaker 2: and many many other law enforcement but could you go 27 00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:50,560 Speaker 2: back to the day that when you learn Kiren has disappeared? 28 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:52,360 Speaker 2: Just seven years old at the time. 29 00:01:52,720 --> 00:01:59,280 Speaker 5: Yeah, I was at work that day and came home 30 00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:05,160 Speaker 5: after I was in the office and went to walk 31 00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:08,399 Speaker 5: down to the bus stop that's down our driveway and 32 00:02:09,760 --> 00:02:12,120 Speaker 5: went down to meet him when he gets off the bus, 33 00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:16,680 Speaker 5: something we do pretty much on every day. And the 34 00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:19,959 Speaker 5: bus came down and the door opened, and the bus 35 00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:24,040 Speaker 5: driver looked at us a little bit puzzled and had 36 00:02:24,080 --> 00:02:26,160 Speaker 5: mentioned that he was not on the bus, and that 37 00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:30,560 Speaker 5: came as a shock, and we talked to her for 38 00:02:30,600 --> 00:02:33,360 Speaker 5: a few minutes, at which time we ran back up 39 00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:35,400 Speaker 5: to the house and got in the car and went 40 00:02:35,480 --> 00:02:38,520 Speaker 5: up to the school to try to find out what 41 00:02:38,639 --> 00:02:40,799 Speaker 5: was happening. While we were making phone calls on the way. 42 00:02:40,919 --> 00:02:45,240 Speaker 5: So it was a very shocking situation at that point 43 00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:48,320 Speaker 5: in time. And then went to the school, talked to 44 00:02:48,360 --> 00:02:52,359 Speaker 5: the teachers and faculty up there, placed the call the 45 00:02:52,440 --> 00:02:55,040 Speaker 5: nine one one, and that's when the Sheriff's office got involved. 46 00:02:55,040 --> 00:02:56,320 Speaker 4: And just kind of evolved from there. 47 00:02:56,480 --> 00:03:01,840 Speaker 2: I'm just thinking about that trip, that frantic drive that 48 00:03:01,880 --> 00:03:06,880 Speaker 2: you made to the school came I'm projecting. I remember 49 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:10,040 Speaker 2: I was in New York and I had just gotten 50 00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:14,600 Speaker 2: the children bathed and in their pajamas and called home 51 00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:19,400 Speaker 2: and found out my dad was on life support. Within 52 00:03:19,480 --> 00:03:21,880 Speaker 2: about fifteen minutes through, we're out on the street, trying 53 00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:25,160 Speaker 2: to hail a cab to hopefully get a flight home, 54 00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:33,440 Speaker 2: that trek, trying to get home, trying to get. 55 00:03:33,120 --> 00:03:35,800 Speaker 1: Somewhere to get to my dad. 56 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:42,840 Speaker 2: Will you describe those moments where you are frantically on 57 00:03:42,920 --> 00:03:47,280 Speaker 2: the phone, you're driving, You're trying to get your facts 58 00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:50,920 Speaker 2: together and find out everything you can. What was going 59 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:53,880 Speaker 2: through your mind? What happened on that trip back to 60 00:03:53,920 --> 00:03:54,440 Speaker 2: the school. 61 00:03:54,680 --> 00:03:57,720 Speaker 5: Well, it was just a very I don't know that 62 00:03:57,760 --> 00:04:00,320 Speaker 5: I have a good description of it, very visceral. 63 00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:03,400 Speaker 4: Panic. Nothing, I mean, sheer panic. 64 00:04:04,160 --> 00:04:07,040 Speaker 5: The one thing or one of you know, one of 65 00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:10,600 Speaker 5: the top things I think most parents fear is their 66 00:04:10,760 --> 00:04:13,760 Speaker 5: their children going missing. You want to protect them, you 67 00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:15,840 Speaker 5: want to be able to know where they are at 68 00:04:15,840 --> 00:04:20,360 Speaker 5: all times. And I was just panicked. It was just terror. 69 00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:25,000 Speaker 5: I don't remember much else. I remember just I think 70 00:04:25,480 --> 00:04:28,279 Speaker 5: what I've you know, learned since then about trauma response, 71 00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:30,600 Speaker 5: I think that it was in just full trauma mode 72 00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:33,680 Speaker 5: at that point in time. You know, everything just looked different, 73 00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:38,040 Speaker 5: the scenery looked different. On the drive up, there just 74 00:04:38,160 --> 00:04:40,560 Speaker 5: everything racing through my mind of you know, all the 75 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:44,440 Speaker 5: different scenarios that could play out. But it was honestly, 76 00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:48,400 Speaker 5: it was terror. I couldn't even really explain the thoughts 77 00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:50,520 Speaker 5: at that point. It was sheer panic. 78 00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:50,880 Speaker 6: You know. 79 00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:54,880 Speaker 1: Another thing Kane Hormon guys joining us is Kyen's dad. Kane. 80 00:04:55,920 --> 00:05:00,640 Speaker 2: Many people would say it's not their fault, they just 81 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:03,400 Speaker 2: haven't lived through it. Well, it's no big deal that 82 00:05:03,440 --> 00:05:06,040 Speaker 2: he's not on the bus, because what if he stayed 83 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:08,360 Speaker 2: on the playground and was playing and the bus left 84 00:05:08,360 --> 00:05:08,960 Speaker 2: without him. 85 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:10,719 Speaker 1: What if he stayed in one of the rooms and 86 00:05:10,839 --> 00:05:12,200 Speaker 1: was doing an extra assignment. 87 00:05:12,800 --> 00:05:18,120 Speaker 2: There's something called routine evidence evidence of routine. It would be, 88 00:05:18,240 --> 00:05:21,760 Speaker 2: for instance, if everybody got together and came here and 89 00:05:21,839 --> 00:05:25,200 Speaker 2: it's time to get hooked up to you and no, Nancy, 90 00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:30,880 Speaker 2: that has never happened. It means something. It's significant. How 91 00:05:30,960 --> 00:05:35,200 Speaker 2: did you know here and here in your head and 92 00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:37,960 Speaker 2: your heart when he did not get off that bus 93 00:05:37,960 --> 00:05:41,640 Speaker 2: when those doors swung open. How did you know instinctively 94 00:05:41,760 --> 00:05:45,599 Speaker 2: something was very wrong. It wasn't just playing on the 95 00:05:45,600 --> 00:05:47,360 Speaker 2: playground or staying in the classroom. 96 00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:50,360 Speaker 5: Yeah, that's exactly how you describe it. Button the bus comes, 97 00:05:50,520 --> 00:05:54,680 Speaker 5: he gets off. Every day, there's y'all want to discussion around, 98 00:05:55,839 --> 00:05:57,640 Speaker 5: you know, whether or not he was at school still 99 00:05:57,800 --> 00:06:02,799 Speaker 5: or you know, other things, and he just very routine, 100 00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:06,800 Speaker 5: Like you said, I don't know that we had a 101 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:09,040 Speaker 5: situation where he ever missed the bus up until then. 102 00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:12,839 Speaker 5: And I'll recall him, you know, being on the playground 103 00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:14,880 Speaker 5: or in the classroom without us knowing about it. And 104 00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:17,360 Speaker 5: I think that's the main thing is usually I think 105 00:06:17,920 --> 00:06:20,599 Speaker 5: in a lot of those circumstances, if there's something after school, 106 00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:24,120 Speaker 5: you usually notified, and the school's usually really good about 107 00:06:24,160 --> 00:06:24,560 Speaker 5: doing that. 108 00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:26,440 Speaker 4: So it was just an immediate. 109 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:31,120 Speaker 5: Response that something's definitely off, because we either would have 110 00:06:31,160 --> 00:06:34,080 Speaker 5: heard or he'd be stepping off those bus steps right now. 111 00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:36,880 Speaker 5: So exactly what you described, it was pretty much like 112 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:39,520 Speaker 5: clockwork every day, and that was just the one day 113 00:06:39,520 --> 00:06:40,000 Speaker 5: that it wasn't. 114 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:43,600 Speaker 1: Okay, Well you got to the school. What happened when 115 00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:44,159 Speaker 1: you got there? 116 00:06:44,440 --> 00:06:49,040 Speaker 5: I remember trying to locate teachers. The three of us 117 00:06:49,040 --> 00:06:52,560 Speaker 5: were up there, so we were trying to locate and 118 00:06:52,600 --> 00:06:57,800 Speaker 5: ask questions about, you know, where he was at, if 119 00:06:57,800 --> 00:06:59,240 Speaker 5: he was still there, kind of the things that we 120 00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:03,720 Speaker 5: just talked about, just getting a rundown. And they had 121 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:06,480 Speaker 5: indicated that he was not there that day, that he 122 00:07:06,560 --> 00:07:10,040 Speaker 5: had been absent from school from the basically the beginning 123 00:07:10,040 --> 00:07:13,720 Speaker 5: of the day, which then was an additional shocks. 124 00:07:13,920 --> 00:07:18,280 Speaker 2: Oh my stars, that just makes my stomach hurt. 125 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:21,080 Speaker 1: Your whole day, you're going about your. 126 00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:23,880 Speaker 2: Business, you're working, you're this, you're that, You're making calls, 127 00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:26,800 Speaker 2: you're sending emails the whole time. You think he's fine 128 00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:29,200 Speaker 2: at school, and he was not there. 129 00:07:29,240 --> 00:07:32,240 Speaker 1: He was not checked in. Right when you say the 130 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:32,880 Speaker 1: three of. 131 00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:35,960 Speaker 2: You, I can just imagine getting to the school is 132 00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:39,960 Speaker 2: still kind of drop off pick up, everything's going crazy, 133 00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:43,840 Speaker 2: and you rushing in probably to the office, going where's 134 00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:44,680 Speaker 2: kym and where is he? 135 00:07:44,720 --> 00:07:45,880 Speaker 1: Where is he? I can't find. 136 00:07:45,680 --> 00:07:49,200 Speaker 2: Anything off the bus, And then you learn he wasn't 137 00:07:49,280 --> 00:07:52,200 Speaker 2: checked in even to his very first class. 138 00:07:52,320 --> 00:07:54,440 Speaker 1: He said, the three of you, who is with you? 139 00:07:54,880 --> 00:07:56,440 Speaker 4: His stepmom and my daughter. 140 00:07:56,560 --> 00:07:58,040 Speaker 1: Okay, let me think this through. 141 00:07:58,160 --> 00:08:00,520 Speaker 2: You get to the school and who was it that 142 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:03,080 Speaker 2: told you he was never even here? 143 00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:07,120 Speaker 5: Yeah, honestly, I don't remember. I know we had started 144 00:08:07,120 --> 00:08:09,400 Speaker 5: talking to somebody and then more people kind of gathered 145 00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:10,720 Speaker 5: around in the. 146 00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:13,600 Speaker 4: Conversation, but I don't recall who we talked to you first. 147 00:08:13,520 --> 00:08:18,080 Speaker 2: Honestly, to seven years old at the time he goes missing, 148 00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:23,840 Speaker 2: everybody thinks he is at school that day, but he's not. 149 00:08:24,640 --> 00:08:29,440 Speaker 7: What happened that morning, Skyline Elementary School in northwest Portland, 150 00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:32,240 Speaker 7: Oregon is having their annual science fair, so the school 151 00:08:32,320 --> 00:08:35,120 Speaker 7: is opened about thirty minutes earlier than normal to allow 152 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:38,120 Speaker 7: for parents and students to see the different projects created 153 00:08:38,120 --> 00:08:41,720 Speaker 7: by the students. Arriving at Skyline just after eight am, 154 00:08:41,840 --> 00:08:44,600 Speaker 7: Kyrine Horman and his stepmother, Terry Horman, go to his 155 00:08:44,640 --> 00:08:47,760 Speaker 7: classroom to drop off his coat and backpack. Kyrone then 156 00:08:47,840 --> 00:08:50,920 Speaker 7: chose his stepmother his exhibit called the Red Eyed tree Frog. 157 00:08:51,160 --> 00:08:55,319 Speaker 2: So Kyin Horman at school and at nuwell joining us 158 00:08:55,520 --> 00:08:58,839 Speaker 2: KATEXL News host of speaking freely with an. 159 00:08:58,800 --> 00:09:01,679 Speaker 1: At newel and thank you for being with us, Annette. 160 00:09:01,760 --> 00:09:05,880 Speaker 2: There's no question he was at school for this pre 161 00:09:06,400 --> 00:09:11,160 Speaker 2: school science fair. Now interesting. A lot of times we 162 00:09:11,240 --> 00:09:15,600 Speaker 2: don't have that distinction. This was all happening before first period, 163 00:09:15,880 --> 00:09:18,000 Speaker 2: before he goes into his homeroom. 164 00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:20,360 Speaker 1: Teacher, was this science fair? Explain? 165 00:09:21,080 --> 00:09:23,520 Speaker 8: Yeah, that was an event in which there were a 166 00:09:23,559 --> 00:09:26,200 Speaker 8: lot of people who came from throughout the community, and 167 00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:30,319 Speaker 8: there wasn't a lot of what you would say supervision. 168 00:09:30,360 --> 00:09:32,679 Speaker 8: There were people coming in and out because there was 169 00:09:32,720 --> 00:09:35,960 Speaker 8: a science fair, and the adults who were coming in 170 00:09:36,040 --> 00:09:38,000 Speaker 8: weren't really being monitored very much. 171 00:09:44,040 --> 00:09:51,560 Speaker 2: Crime stories with Nancy Grace, let's take a look at 172 00:09:51,559 --> 00:09:54,640 Speaker 2: the case of missing Karen Horman, just like the FBI 173 00:09:54,800 --> 00:09:55,640 Speaker 2: is doing now. 174 00:09:56,120 --> 00:09:58,320 Speaker 1: Came Horman with me, Kirene's dad. 175 00:09:58,960 --> 00:10:01,440 Speaker 2: So that was kind of a big morning for him 176 00:10:01,559 --> 00:10:05,360 Speaker 2: taking in the big science project. How was that morning 177 00:10:05,400 --> 00:10:08,640 Speaker 2: before he left for school? Was anything at all unusual? 178 00:10:08,920 --> 00:10:12,720 Speaker 5: No, not from my perspective. We had talked that morning 179 00:10:12,760 --> 00:10:15,800 Speaker 5: before he went up to the school, before I went 180 00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:16,240 Speaker 5: to work. 181 00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:18,440 Speaker 4: We talked outside. 182 00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:20,679 Speaker 5: He came out with me to the car before I 183 00:10:20,679 --> 00:10:22,319 Speaker 5: got in and left. I told him that I loved 184 00:10:22,360 --> 00:10:26,000 Speaker 5: him to have a wonderful day at the exposition and 185 00:10:26,040 --> 00:10:27,559 Speaker 5: that I would see him after work, and we talk 186 00:10:27,640 --> 00:10:31,319 Speaker 5: all about it. So it was just another pretty much 187 00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:31,920 Speaker 5: normal day. 188 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:35,320 Speaker 2: What more do we know about what happened at the 189 00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:36,640 Speaker 2: school that morning? 190 00:10:36,880 --> 00:10:37,240 Speaker 1: Listen. 191 00:10:37,400 --> 00:10:39,920 Speaker 9: Terry Hormon has raised Karen since he was an infant, 192 00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:41,880 Speaker 9: and she takes a picture of Karen standing in front 193 00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:44,720 Speaker 9: of his project, posting the photo on Facebook. The two 194 00:10:44,760 --> 00:10:47,720 Speaker 9: walk around the classes looking at other students' projects and 195 00:10:47,760 --> 00:10:50,120 Speaker 9: see many other parents and children who have arrived early 196 00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:53,199 Speaker 9: for the science fair. Terry Hormon volunteers her time helping 197 00:10:53,240 --> 00:10:56,440 Speaker 9: Karen's teacher, Christina Porter, and Porter sees Karen and Terry 198 00:10:56,440 --> 00:10:59,560 Speaker 9: Hormon and Kiren's classroom that morning, and another teacher sees 199 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:02,640 Speaker 9: Karen Terry in another classroom before the eight forty five 200 00:11:02,679 --> 00:11:03,800 Speaker 9: am school bell rings. 201 00:11:03,960 --> 00:11:09,280 Speaker 2: Caine Horman explain to me your understanding of what happened 202 00:11:09,280 --> 00:11:13,080 Speaker 2: that morning at the science Expo and how many times 203 00:11:13,120 --> 00:11:15,400 Speaker 2: he was signed. I mean, I see the picture, I 204 00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:18,360 Speaker 2: know he was there, but now I'm hearing he was 205 00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:20,360 Speaker 2: in another classroom. 206 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:22,840 Speaker 1: What's your understanding of his movements that morning? 207 00:11:23,040 --> 00:11:26,760 Speaker 5: Yeah, So based on what I understand, again, this is 208 00:11:26,880 --> 00:11:31,360 Speaker 5: what I remember being told that they arrived at the school, 209 00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:36,000 Speaker 5: that they went to the classroom where his project was 210 00:11:36,080 --> 00:11:40,360 Speaker 5: on display. That's the photo that we've all seen already. 211 00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:43,920 Speaker 5: With him standing in front. I did see that photo 212 00:11:44,040 --> 00:11:47,559 Speaker 5: later that day on our camera as well. There was 213 00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:49,960 Speaker 5: a couple other pictures of other things in the room 214 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:52,720 Speaker 5: from what I remember, So they did look at some 215 00:11:52,760 --> 00:11:55,400 Speaker 5: other projects in the room again from what I recall, 216 00:11:56,559 --> 00:12:01,280 Speaker 5: and then there was a description of them walking to 217 00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:04,600 Speaker 5: other classrooms and looking at other projects in those rooms. 218 00:12:05,800 --> 00:12:09,800 Speaker 5: I don't remember. I don't recall which teacher it was 219 00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:11,520 Speaker 5: that they went into. I think they went in the 220 00:12:11,559 --> 00:12:15,360 Speaker 5: multiple rooms from what I remember and what I was told. 221 00:12:15,520 --> 00:12:21,160 Speaker 5: And then then there was a discussion about them parting 222 00:12:21,200 --> 00:12:25,000 Speaker 5: ways up in the hall by the office, and he 223 00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:29,200 Speaker 5: supposedly walked down the hall back towards his classroom and 224 00:12:29,280 --> 00:12:31,840 Speaker 5: she left the building again according to what I was told. 225 00:12:32,040 --> 00:12:34,960 Speaker 5: I don't know for a fact what happened, but that 226 00:12:34,960 --> 00:12:37,120 Speaker 5: that's what I remember as the kind of the described 227 00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:40,200 Speaker 5: overview of what happened there. And again I did see 228 00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:43,800 Speaker 5: photos of the classroom in a few others, but that's 229 00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:44,400 Speaker 5: what I remember. 230 00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:46,920 Speaker 1: Okay, I'm understanding something. Really. 231 00:12:46,960 --> 00:12:51,480 Speaker 2: For the first time, this expo wasn't in one big 232 00:12:51,559 --> 00:12:55,520 Speaker 2: room like the gymnasium or the auditorium. This was it 233 00:12:55,559 --> 00:13:00,000 Speaker 2: was in different classrooms, so you would walk from class 234 00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:05,040 Speaker 2: aassroom to classroom looking at various other projects, you know, 235 00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:08,280 Speaker 2: sizing up yours compared to them. Did anybody have a 236 00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:11,240 Speaker 2: really great idea or really bad idea? You could talk 237 00:13:11,240 --> 00:13:15,360 Speaker 2: about it at the supper table that night. So they 238 00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:20,280 Speaker 2: Kyra specifically and the stepmom are going from room to 239 00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:24,400 Speaker 2: room looking at the projects. Is that correct? Yeah? 240 00:13:24,440 --> 00:13:25,680 Speaker 4: From my understanding, that's correct. 241 00:13:25,760 --> 00:13:26,560 Speaker 1: Yes, Okay. 242 00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:32,080 Speaker 2: I find that very significant because it's not a group 243 00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:36,640 Speaker 2: of people in one gymnasium, one gym with all the 244 00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:42,520 Speaker 2: projects and fifty people, one hundred people seeing Kiren. He's 245 00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:44,840 Speaker 2: walking from room to room. 246 00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:47,680 Speaker 1: In and out. Everybody's milling around looking. 247 00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:51,520 Speaker 2: Parents are there from all over looking at their children's 248 00:13:51,559 --> 00:13:56,360 Speaker 2: science projects. It's easy to get lost in the shuffle. 249 00:13:57,640 --> 00:13:59,760 Speaker 2: It's you know, you might as well be walking through 250 00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:03,760 Speaker 2: Greend Central Station. There's a million kids running around. There's 251 00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:08,920 Speaker 2: parents that don't really know each other. Who knows what happened? 252 00:14:08,960 --> 00:14:12,640 Speaker 2: Who can really get a good grip on the last 253 00:14:12,679 --> 00:14:15,319 Speaker 2: time Tyron is sane. 254 00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:18,560 Speaker 1: It's not like he disappeared off the bus. He was there. 255 00:14:19,160 --> 00:14:23,080 Speaker 2: He was there, guys, What more do we know about 256 00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:23,800 Speaker 2: that morning? 257 00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:27,080 Speaker 7: Listen as Terry Horman leaves the school, she sees Kyron 258 00:14:27,160 --> 00:14:30,800 Speaker 7: walking down a hallway toward his classroom inside Skyline Elementary. 259 00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:33,440 Speaker 7: Kyne has already placed his book bag and coat in 260 00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:36,560 Speaker 7: Miss Porter's classroom when he first arrived for the science fair. 261 00:14:36,840 --> 00:14:39,440 Speaker 7: Miss Porter starts her class like every day. Then the 262 00:14:39,520 --> 00:14:43,400 Speaker 7: children moved to reading group, than recess, than lunch. Around 263 00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:46,160 Speaker 7: three pm, the children, tired from a busy day, get 264 00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:47,360 Speaker 7: on the bus to go home. 265 00:14:47,840 --> 00:14:49,640 Speaker 1: Where is Kyne? 266 00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:52,520 Speaker 2: You think when you take a child to school everything 267 00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:56,760 Speaker 2: is safe and sound. Not in this case, joining me 268 00:14:56,800 --> 00:14:59,200 Speaker 2: an all star panel, but straight back to Kyrin's father, 269 00:14:59,360 --> 00:15:05,480 Speaker 2: Kane Hormon joining us Cain, what did stepmom Terry tell 270 00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:07,240 Speaker 2: you about what happened? 271 00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:11,840 Speaker 5: Yeah, so it was we talked about the going to 272 00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:14,560 Speaker 5: the room at the school, doing the photos, walking around 273 00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:20,200 Speaker 5: the different rooms. I actually do recall after thinking about 274 00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:21,440 Speaker 5: it a little bit more, I think it was this 275 00:15:21,520 --> 00:15:24,840 Speaker 5: first grade teacher that they saw in his room. And 276 00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:27,640 Speaker 5: one of the interesting things about the schools there is 277 00:15:27,640 --> 00:15:31,480 Speaker 5: an upstairs and the downstairs with classrooms, which I guess 278 00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:34,320 Speaker 5: I didn't mention before. So she had talked about starting 279 00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:37,520 Speaker 5: in the upstairs rooms and to ring the science projects 280 00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:40,640 Speaker 5: in those rooms, then going downstairs and viewing the projects 281 00:15:40,680 --> 00:15:45,520 Speaker 5: there and then. And it's been a while, my memory 282 00:15:45,520 --> 00:15:48,000 Speaker 5: may not be what it used to be, but for 283 00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:51,160 Speaker 5: some reason I remember her talking about them separating and 284 00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:53,760 Speaker 5: meeting because there's different stairwells to go back up to 285 00:15:53,800 --> 00:15:56,320 Speaker 5: the upper level where they went back up to the 286 00:15:56,400 --> 00:15:59,560 Speaker 5: upper level and met near the office, and that's where 287 00:15:59,560 --> 00:16:03,040 Speaker 5: they parted, and she saw or talked about him walking 288 00:16:03,080 --> 00:16:05,120 Speaker 5: down the hallway back to his class. 289 00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:06,240 Speaker 4: I don't recall her. 290 00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:09,160 Speaker 5: Saying she saw him doing that, that they met there 291 00:16:09,240 --> 00:16:12,240 Speaker 5: and then separated at that point in the school. It's 292 00:16:12,280 --> 00:16:14,120 Speaker 5: kind of a central the office is kind of a 293 00:16:14,120 --> 00:16:19,400 Speaker 5: central spot in the upstairs. And then she went and 294 00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:22,640 Speaker 5: did some of her daily things that she had on 295 00:16:22,680 --> 00:16:23,680 Speaker 5: her list from the school. 296 00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:25,040 Speaker 4: So that was the last time. 297 00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:28,280 Speaker 5: That she had said that she had saw him was 298 00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:30,320 Speaker 5: in that central meeting place by the office. 299 00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:32,120 Speaker 1: And that's the teacher to whom you're referring. 300 00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:36,680 Speaker 4: The teacher the names escaping me at the moment, I apologize. 301 00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:37,080 Speaker 1: That's okay. 302 00:16:37,240 --> 00:16:38,800 Speaker 2: I just want to make sure you're talking about the 303 00:16:38,840 --> 00:16:41,840 Speaker 2: teacher says she saw him in that central area and 304 00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:44,960 Speaker 2: she took off to go do all her duties right, No, 305 00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:47,160 Speaker 2: I don't recall a teacher saying that that's what I 306 00:16:47,240 --> 00:16:51,640 Speaker 2: was told by his stepmom is that they met up 307 00:16:51,680 --> 00:16:55,120 Speaker 2: there and separated there. Gotcha now, I understand. Also to 308 00:16:55,160 --> 00:17:00,440 Speaker 2: a mule joining us Kate x L news that at 309 00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:07,600 Speaker 2: least one person saw stepmother Terry leaving the building. How 310 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:11,480 Speaker 2: do we know what time she left? Did she leave alone? 311 00:17:12,080 --> 00:17:13,760 Speaker 2: Who is confirming that? 312 00:17:14,320 --> 00:17:17,879 Speaker 8: Actually that information came from the mother of Kiren. She 313 00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:20,920 Speaker 8: said that there were several witnesses who have told her 314 00:17:21,320 --> 00:17:25,440 Speaker 8: that they did witness him leaving in a truck with 315 00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:31,000 Speaker 8: a stepmother. So that's basically where that information came from. 316 00:17:31,040 --> 00:17:35,080 Speaker 2: Speaking of Kyen's mother, Desiree, listen. 317 00:17:34,920 --> 00:17:38,679 Speaker 10: The investigation continues to be on track and is progressing 318 00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:43,000 Speaker 10: toward finding Kyen. We remain confident in the actions and 319 00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:46,600 Speaker 10: constant commitment of law enforcement in the mission to find 320 00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:47,040 Speaker 10: our son. 321 00:17:48,560 --> 00:17:53,399 Speaker 1: We love you, Kiren, never give up hope. We are 322 00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:56,040 Speaker 1: all coming to get you, to bring you home. 323 00:17:56,080 --> 00:18:02,280 Speaker 2: Back to Caine Horman, Cain, did Terry ever mentioned to 324 00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:05,680 Speaker 2: you leaving the school with Kiren? 325 00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:08,080 Speaker 4: No, not in any conversation that we had. 326 00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:10,800 Speaker 2: What do you know about potential witnesses that say they 327 00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:12,400 Speaker 2: observed her leaving with him. 328 00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:19,399 Speaker 5: Personally, I have no first hand account of anybody having 329 00:18:19,720 --> 00:18:22,640 Speaker 5: seen him in the parking lot or her or them 330 00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:27,040 Speaker 5: leaving together. I've heard a lot of second hand information 331 00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:31,520 Speaker 5: that there. There's a number of different accounts. There's accounts 332 00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:36,040 Speaker 5: of people seeing all three of them leaving because my 333 00:18:36,160 --> 00:18:40,359 Speaker 5: daughter was with her as well. There's accounts of seeing 334 00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:43,400 Speaker 5: him by himself in the parking lot and getting into vehicles. 335 00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:45,560 Speaker 5: I've heard different kinds of vehicles, not just a truck, 336 00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:50,600 Speaker 5: and I've heard, you know, other other accounts of people 337 00:18:51,520 --> 00:18:54,640 Speaker 5: witnessing her leaving the school by herself. 338 00:18:55,119 --> 00:18:55,440 Speaker 4: I don't. 339 00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:59,960 Speaker 5: I haven't heard any directly, so that's it's all second 340 00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:03,000 Speaker 5: had information. I apologize, but I don't have any firsthand 341 00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:06,919 Speaker 5: witness accounts that have been dictated to me personally in 342 00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:09,000 Speaker 5: that instance. But it's been a little bit of everything. 343 00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:13,480 Speaker 2: To be honest, Nor do I in fact me reports 344 00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:17,640 Speaker 2: state the step mom leaves without him, that she's observed 345 00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:19,480 Speaker 2: leaving without him. 346 00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:22,399 Speaker 1: How many times. 347 00:19:23,240 --> 00:19:25,680 Speaker 2: I can I ask you, Kane, did you go over 348 00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:30,520 Speaker 2: it and over it and over it with stepmom Terry many. 349 00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:36,119 Speaker 5: Many times exhaustively. There was a lot of discussion that 350 00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:41,560 Speaker 5: was occurring posts, the interaction with with the folks at 351 00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:44,480 Speaker 5: the school and then with law enforcement, and it was 352 00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:47,919 Speaker 5: pretty much a daily thing trying to walk through, you know, 353 00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:55,000 Speaker 5: who they saw, recount the steps, making sure that One 354 00:19:55,040 --> 00:19:57,040 Speaker 5: of my biggest concerns was, you know, did they actually 355 00:19:57,040 --> 00:20:00,400 Speaker 5: meet up in part ways at the office, did really 356 00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:05,720 Speaker 5: ever get firsthand information that confirmed their party at that location. 357 00:20:05,840 --> 00:20:07,840 Speaker 5: So there was just a lot of conversation about trying 358 00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:12,200 Speaker 5: to understand exactly what happened, where it happened, how it happened, 359 00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:15,880 Speaker 5: and then including after as well. 360 00:20:16,119 --> 00:20:19,000 Speaker 4: So there was a lot. 361 00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:22,480 Speaker 11: Kien, who was seven years old, disappeared from Skyline Elementary 362 00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:23,800 Speaker 11: School in northwest Portland. 363 00:20:24,359 --> 00:20:27,840 Speaker 12: From day one, the Molnoma County Sheriff's Office has worked 364 00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:31,240 Speaker 12: in close partnership with the Molnoma County District Attorney's Office, 365 00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:34,560 Speaker 12: the FBI, and other agencies to find Kyron. 366 00:20:35,119 --> 00:20:37,960 Speaker 11: As parents, we can't imagine the pain and struggle Kyen's 367 00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:42,040 Speaker 11: family has experienced and continues to experience without him. 368 00:20:42,040 --> 00:20:44,840 Speaker 12: And that's why we have never given up or slowed 369 00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:46,200 Speaker 12: down and trying to find Kyron. 370 00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:49,400 Speaker 2: In the last days, the FBI is set to take 371 00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:52,480 Speaker 2: a fresh look at the case of a missing boy. 372 00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:57,000 Speaker 2: Kyron Horman Guys with me is Kyn's father, Kane Jarre 373 00:20:57,080 --> 00:21:03,320 Speaker 2: Farentino joining US renowned former prosecutor, host of True crime 374 00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:04,480 Speaker 2: Boss Jarrett. 375 00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:05,560 Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us. 376 00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:10,320 Speaker 2: It seems to me that we understand the timeline very well. 377 00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:12,680 Speaker 1: Caine has filled it out for us. 378 00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:19,440 Speaker 2: I understand everything up until the point the stepmother leaves. 379 00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:26,840 Speaker 2: That's when things begin to get Mrquis agree or disagree? 380 00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:28,359 Speaker 4: I agree one percent. 381 00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:33,200 Speaker 13: It's not clear whether or not Kyn left the building 382 00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:37,439 Speaker 13: with her, although Terry, the stepmom, claims she left. I 383 00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:41,000 Speaker 13: run at school, heading toward his classroom and she left 384 00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:42,600 Speaker 13: with their little girl. 385 00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:47,320 Speaker 4: That is the golden moment as case. 386 00:21:47,119 --> 00:21:50,560 Speaker 13: Really began, Nancy, and there's some discrepancy in Terry's story 387 00:21:51,119 --> 00:21:52,480 Speaker 13: and how things played out. 388 00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:53,199 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know. 389 00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:57,840 Speaker 2: Dany Corsentino, former police chief and former sheriff, also served 390 00:21:57,880 --> 00:22:02,600 Speaker 2: on US Homeland Security Scene Advisory Board now PI at 391 00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:07,200 Speaker 2: Dancorsantino dot com. Dan, right there, I'm telling you, that 392 00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:12,200 Speaker 2: is the critical moment, the critical moment when suddenly nobody's sure, 393 00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:16,000 Speaker 2: what where, where did he go that way or that way? 394 00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:20,439 Speaker 2: Was the stepmom with him not with him? That is 395 00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:23,439 Speaker 2: where the problem lies. Right there. 396 00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:25,720 Speaker 1: You've seen it a million times. 397 00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:28,320 Speaker 2: You've been a sheriff, you've been a police sheep, you've 398 00:22:28,359 --> 00:22:31,919 Speaker 2: been on homeland security. Right there, when the stories begin 399 00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:38,360 Speaker 2: to go in different directions. Everything's going along. Normally, Dad 400 00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:41,400 Speaker 2: leaves for work, everything's fine. 401 00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:43,520 Speaker 1: They get to the school, they make it to the 402 00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:44,200 Speaker 1: science fair. 403 00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:50,159 Speaker 2: But it suddenly when Stepmommy leaves, that's when everything hits 404 00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:50,760 Speaker 2: the fan. 405 00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:55,520 Speaker 6: Dan Corsentino, absolutely, that was the defining moment, that was 406 00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:59,240 Speaker 6: the beginning of the journey in the Sad Sad case. 407 00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:01,440 Speaker 4: But it is really really. 408 00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:07,119 Speaker 6: Interesting about this is the comfort level that kyn had 409 00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:10,720 Speaker 6: and who he had the comfort level with, And there 410 00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:15,560 Speaker 6: was only one person on that particular morning when he 411 00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:19,719 Speaker 6: was at the school with Terry, that was the person 412 00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:24,080 Speaker 6: he had a comfort level with. Obviously teachers, students and everything. 413 00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:28,520 Speaker 6: But unless this was a stranger abduction, which I don't 414 00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:32,200 Speaker 6: think it was, that was individual that he had the 415 00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:36,800 Speaker 6: comfort level with. And everything changed as her story continues 416 00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:37,480 Speaker 6: to change. 417 00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:39,359 Speaker 2: You know, he just mentioned something really important to be 418 00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:42,600 Speaker 2: in Coursentino, you said, unless this was a stranger abduction, 419 00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:45,360 Speaker 2: let's just talk about the reality of that possibility. 420 00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:47,119 Speaker 1: Docter Sherry Schwartz joining me. 421 00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:53,080 Speaker 2: She is a forensic psychologist and her specialty is criminal behavior. 422 00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:57,439 Speaker 2: She's the author of Criminal Behavior and Where Law and 423 00:23:57,560 --> 00:23:59,720 Speaker 2: Psychology intersect. 424 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:03,480 Speaker 1: Doctor Sherry Schwartz, thank you for being with us. 425 00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:08,680 Speaker 2: That is not a possibility that there was a stranger 426 00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:15,200 Speaker 2: abduction in the middle of the elementary school science fair. Okay, 427 00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:19,119 Speaker 2: the science fair was ending, the eight forty five bail 428 00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:22,919 Speaker 2: was going off for everyone to go to class. What stranger, 429 00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:28,280 Speaker 2: what who? No stranger is in that building. Everyone is 430 00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:32,400 Speaker 2: dispersing and leaving. The only one there where the story 431 00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:36,880 Speaker 2: goes sideways is with the stepmother, doctor Sherry Schwartz. 432 00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:38,240 Speaker 1: Yes, that's correct. 433 00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:42,960 Speaker 14: She's the last one that was seen with Kiren, and 434 00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:48,000 Speaker 14: Kiren hasn't been seen since. And when people use words 435 00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:52,440 Speaker 14: like retaliation when we're talking about a missing child, they're 436 00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:56,600 Speaker 14: missing stepchild that they've known since an infant, every alarm 437 00:24:56,760 --> 00:25:00,320 Speaker 14: in my brain goes off, every alarm. You're right, doctor 438 00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:01,160 Speaker 14: Sherry Schwartz. 439 00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:04,080 Speaker 2: As a matter of fact, let's take a listen to 440 00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:09,960 Speaker 2: stepmom Terry on our friend doctor Field's program. 441 00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:13,040 Speaker 15: This was in retaliation for something that he was doing 442 00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:16,199 Speaker 15: that I found out about while this is happening, and 443 00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:21,199 Speaker 15: this particular person was actually his friend and sent to 444 00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:21,639 Speaker 15: the house. 445 00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:23,640 Speaker 1: So this was a setup. 446 00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:30,479 Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, a setup retaliation. What is she even talking about? 447 00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:34,800 Speaker 2: Listen to more of the stepmom speaking to our friend 448 00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:35,680 Speaker 2: doctor Phil. 449 00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:37,560 Speaker 1: Well, that would be because the. 450 00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:42,840 Speaker 15: Law enforcement told us to go to do what we 451 00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:45,680 Speaker 15: told us to do, things that we normally do. So 452 00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:48,040 Speaker 15: they want you to go grocery shopping, they want you 453 00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:50,520 Speaker 15: to go to the gym. They specifically told both Cana 454 00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:52,199 Speaker 15: and I, and he was with me that day when 455 00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:52,639 Speaker 15: we went. 456 00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:59,200 Speaker 2: Okay, what she's talking about, because she'd possibly be talking 457 00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:04,080 Speaker 2: about the X rated photos she's sending a lover within 458 00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:08,720 Speaker 2: just days after Kyne disappearing. 459 00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:12,760 Speaker 1: I mean, Caine, I don't know what you went through. 460 00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:15,480 Speaker 2: I thought I knew everything about grief when my fiance 461 00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:19,000 Speaker 2: was murdered. I couldn't eat, I couldn't sleep, I could 462 00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:22,080 Speaker 2: barely speak. I couldn't stand to hear music or TV 463 00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:25,640 Speaker 2: or radio or even the clock ticking. I would vomit 464 00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:29,199 Speaker 2: and vomit. I couldn't keep anything on my stomach. The 465 00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:33,240 Speaker 2: last thing I could have thought about is sending X 466 00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:37,440 Speaker 2: rated photos of myself to some guy. I mean that's 467 00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:41,000 Speaker 2: just not where your head is at a time like that. 468 00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:43,800 Speaker 5: The first thing that I wanted to do was to 469 00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:46,199 Speaker 5: cooperate with law enforcement as much as possible. And when 470 00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:48,919 Speaker 5: I wasn't doing that, I was sitting in another room, 471 00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:52,640 Speaker 5: staring at the floor and praying. For the first couple 472 00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:54,679 Speaker 5: of days. I think I slept for maybe twenty minutes. 473 00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:58,480 Speaker 5: The night that he went missing, we had a house 474 00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:02,840 Speaker 5: full of law enforcement. One of the sheriff's officers that 475 00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:05,480 Speaker 5: I had gotten to know over that period of time 476 00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:08,639 Speaker 5: sat across from me in the room, and I think 477 00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:10,680 Speaker 5: I might have k notted off for twenty minutes. Maybe 478 00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:15,679 Speaker 5: everything was do everything possible, as fast as possible, whatever 479 00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:18,840 Speaker 5: we needed to do, And it was just being ready 480 00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:22,399 Speaker 5: and available to go through the process that they conduct, 481 00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:26,120 Speaker 5: through the investigation as much as we could. Like I said, 482 00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:28,200 Speaker 5: when I wasn't doing that, I was basically sitting there 483 00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:31,720 Speaker 5: crying for the first and that was the first few days. 484 00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:32,240 Speaker 4: It was. 485 00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:37,600 Speaker 5: The grief was overwhelming, and at the same time, like 486 00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:39,480 Speaker 5: we talked about in the ride up to the school, 487 00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:42,400 Speaker 5: in my brain was just frantically trying to figure out, 488 00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:44,879 Speaker 5: you know, what could we possibly be doing? Is this 489 00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:49,520 Speaker 5: real it's still just really hadn't sunk in all the way, 490 00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:51,080 Speaker 5: but it had at the same time. I don't know 491 00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:54,760 Speaker 5: if that makes any sense, but just mulling over everything. 492 00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:57,560 Speaker 5: But yeah, I don't remember sleeping that much for the 493 00:27:57,560 --> 00:28:00,879 Speaker 5: first week, if not longer, because we were in the 494 00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:04,080 Speaker 5: middle of the investigation. We were being investigated in all 495 00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:07,119 Speaker 5: the interviews and everything else that we were trying to 496 00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:10,080 Speaker 5: get through. I mean, I was not on social media 497 00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:12,840 Speaker 5: at all that I recall. I don't even recall cracking 498 00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:16,199 Speaker 5: a laptop. I don't remember being on my phone. I 499 00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:18,520 Speaker 5: just remember working with the team as much as humanly 500 00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:23,560 Speaker 5: possible to make progress on finding him. So the things 501 00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:26,840 Speaker 5: that you're describing to me completely foreign to me at 502 00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:28,120 Speaker 5: that time, and still. 503 00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:29,760 Speaker 11: It just. 504 00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:34,679 Speaker 5: Sorry, I don't know how it's answered. It was just 505 00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:36,560 Speaker 5: it was a very intense period of time. I have 506 00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:39,160 Speaker 5: no idea how anyone would be on that mindset. 507 00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:43,120 Speaker 16: Terry alleges she drove along country roads to sooth daughter 508 00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:48,000 Speaker 16: Kiera's erich the morning of Kyron's disappearance. Terry's friend Deetie 509 00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:51,240 Speaker 16: allegedly rushes out of work at the same time as 510 00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:56,000 Speaker 16: Terry's drive after receiving a mysterious phone call her whereabouts 511 00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:59,840 Speaker 16: during this time are unknown Witnesses at the school report 512 00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:03,920 Speaker 16: unidentified man in a white pickup truck at the science fair, 513 00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:07,240 Speaker 16: but his identity remains a mystery. 514 00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:12,200 Speaker 2: Guys, there's so much misdirection going on right here, so 515 00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:17,440 Speaker 2: much misdirection. To Annette and Newell joining us Kate Exale 516 00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:20,280 Speaker 2: news host Annette again, thank you for being with us. 517 00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:27,080 Speaker 2: That parking lot was likely full of parents leaving leaving 518 00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:32,960 Speaker 2: the science fair, but you are telling me evidence has 519 00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:39,840 Speaker 2: emerged of at least one witness seeing the stepmother leaving 520 00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:41,719 Speaker 2: with Tyrone. 521 00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:42,720 Speaker 1: Is that correct? 522 00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:44,920 Speaker 8: They were seen out in front of the school by 523 00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:47,920 Speaker 8: one of Kyron's friends, his grandma and sister, as well 524 00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:50,360 Speaker 8: as his bus driver. They were walking out to the 525 00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:53,360 Speaker 8: main road, which is where the truck was parked. That 526 00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:56,719 Speaker 8: witnesses saw Terry and kyn leaving the school together that 527 00:29:56,800 --> 00:30:00,320 Speaker 8: morning and heading toward their truck. According to Quinna all So, 528 00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:03,400 Speaker 8: Terry said that she drove around town that day, stopping 529 00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:06,680 Speaker 8: at the two grocery stores to get medicine for her daughter, 530 00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:10,360 Speaker 8: who wasn't feeling well. Then police found that Terry's phone 531 00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:14,080 Speaker 8: pained her own Highway thirty north of Portland and that 532 00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:14,800 Speaker 8: time period. 533 00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:18,880 Speaker 2: Now you're telling me that she in the vehicle in 534 00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:21,720 Speaker 2: the truck, was bought it at not one, but at 535 00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:27,600 Speaker 2: least two grocery stores. Could the video be highlighted enhanced 536 00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:30,480 Speaker 2: to say if Colin was in the car at that time. 537 00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:32,800 Speaker 8: That's something that they tried to do a bunch of 538 00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:35,760 Speaker 8: times and they couldn't conclusively tell whether he was in 539 00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:36,240 Speaker 8: the car. 540 00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:42,440 Speaker 2: And that video depicting the stepmother going to at least 541 00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:45,640 Speaker 2: two grocery stores, was that immediately upon her leaving the school. 542 00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:48,160 Speaker 8: Yeah, they do think it fit the timeline of what 543 00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:52,080 Speaker 8: she was talking about, although there was some other time 544 00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:56,120 Speaker 8: that they weren't sure if they could definitely connect what 545 00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:58,840 Speaker 8: she was saying she did versus what she did. But 546 00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:01,680 Speaker 8: they did find that there was some video of her 547 00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:06,040 Speaker 8: from surveillance cameras in that area that did show her 548 00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:07,040 Speaker 8: and show her. 549 00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:07,440 Speaker 1: In the truck. 550 00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:21,400 Speaker 2: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. What happened to Karen Horman? 551 00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:24,400 Speaker 2: Can the FBI find answers? Well, this is what we 552 00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:27,920 Speaker 2: know so far. The pinging of her cell phone explained 553 00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:29,880 Speaker 2: to me where her cell phone pained. 554 00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:34,240 Speaker 8: Yeah, it was an area north Portland, not far from 555 00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:39,040 Speaker 8: the school around Highway thirty, which runs north of Portland, 556 00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:43,520 Speaker 8: and that was after she'd spent time driving her daughter around. 557 00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:46,479 Speaker 8: She said she was driving in that area to settle 558 00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:49,959 Speaker 8: her daughter down. Is what she told police when they 559 00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:53,160 Speaker 8: asked why she was why the phone was paying around 560 00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:53,760 Speaker 8: in that area. 561 00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:56,040 Speaker 1: To Kane Horman, this is Kyen's dad. 562 00:31:57,160 --> 00:31:59,760 Speaker 2: When you asked her what had happened that morning, she 563 00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:03,320 Speaker 2: describe this circuitous route, driving around with the daughter in 564 00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:05,240 Speaker 2: the car to help her earache. 565 00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:09,200 Speaker 5: Yes she did. She talked about the retailers she stopped at. 566 00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:11,800 Speaker 5: I want to say there was a gem stop. Again, 567 00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:14,400 Speaker 5: I don't recall, it's been a while, but she did 568 00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:16,720 Speaker 5: outline that. She outlined a few of the country roads 569 00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:20,600 Speaker 5: that they were driving on. She wasn't overly specific about 570 00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:22,640 Speaker 5: which ones. There was a few she talked about, but 571 00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:25,360 Speaker 5: after that it was just driving around. But yeah, I 572 00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:27,560 Speaker 5: was familiar with that kind of. 573 00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:33,240 Speaker 3: Timetable family and investigators suspect this was no accident. Stepmom 574 00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:37,960 Speaker 3: Terry maintains her innocence. As the Horman family continues, they're 575 00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:39,880 Speaker 3: desperate search for answers. 576 00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:45,240 Speaker 2: We know the stepmother has never been formally charged, and 577 00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:51,520 Speaker 2: Karen Horman's disappearance. She has become the target of public suspicion. 578 00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:57,040 Speaker 2: But there seems to be a chain of alleged misconduct 579 00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:02,760 Speaker 2: really since the moment goes missing. Now to you, doctor 580 00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:09,080 Speaker 2: Sherry Schwartz, I know that everyone reacts differently to pain 581 00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:14,840 Speaker 2: or suffering, or loss or even stress, but this series 582 00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:18,160 Speaker 2: of alleged misconduct does not. 583 00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:21,280 Speaker 1: Vode well, doctor Siri, not at all. 584 00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:25,320 Speaker 14: And this isn't to me. This isn't anything that would 585 00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:29,880 Speaker 14: constitute a trauma response or a grief response. This is 586 00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:36,000 Speaker 14: very specific behavior. She's talking about retaliation against Kirne's dad. 587 00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:41,240 Speaker 14: She is saying things like the police told her things 588 00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:42,160 Speaker 14: like to go to the gym. 589 00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:42,680 Speaker 12: Now. 590 00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:44,320 Speaker 14: I don't know if they did or they didn't, but 591 00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:48,520 Speaker 14: I would find that very strange because most parents are 592 00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:52,560 Speaker 14: out looking. And also, Nancy, if I lost somebody's sunglasses 593 00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:56,400 Speaker 14: that didn't belong to me, I'd be scouring the neighborhood 594 00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:59,080 Speaker 14: to find out where did I leave them, let alone 595 00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:00,800 Speaker 14: losing someone child. 596 00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:06,000 Speaker 2: I also understand that Terry Lynn Moulton formerly Terry Horman, 597 00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:12,960 Speaker 2: faced grand theft firearm charges stemming from an incident in Marysville, California, 598 00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:18,520 Speaker 2: regarding a stolen gun. It's just like one thing after 599 00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:22,239 Speaker 2: the next and again she is not Ever, she's never 600 00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:26,879 Speaker 2: been named a suspect, a formal suspect in the disappearance 601 00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:31,120 Speaker 2: of Kiren. You know, Caine, you earlier mentioned that you 602 00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:36,600 Speaker 2: and the whole family were being investigated. That's SOP standard 603 00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:41,120 Speaker 2: operating procedure. When someone goes missing, the first place police. 604 00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:42,920 Speaker 1: Look, as they should, is at. 605 00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:48,560 Speaker 2: The family members, particularly the male members. Statistically, that's typically 606 00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:53,040 Speaker 2: who did it? Tell me about being the target of 607 00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:56,960 Speaker 2: an investigation yourself while your son is missing? 608 00:34:58,480 --> 00:34:59,440 Speaker 1: What was that like? 609 00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:02,640 Speaker 5: The only way I can describe it is is it 610 00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:06,160 Speaker 5: was something that we that I needed to do. I 611 00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:07,560 Speaker 5: knew I didn't have any involvement. 612 00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:11,279 Speaker 4: I knew that really at that point it wasn't about me, 613 00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:12,040 Speaker 4: is really. 614 00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:14,759 Speaker 5: All I can say is about him, And I did 615 00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:19,720 Speaker 5: everything I was asked to do as fast and quickly 616 00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:23,640 Speaker 5: and urgently as possible to clear myself in the investigation 617 00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:26,040 Speaker 5: because I wanted them to be focused on who did it. 618 00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:30,920 Speaker 4: So it was I just I don't know. I set aside. 619 00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:32,560 Speaker 5: There was not really a lot of emotions from me 620 00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:36,319 Speaker 5: on that front, other than they indicated the process and 621 00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:39,440 Speaker 5: my job was to clear the process, and that's absolutely 622 00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:41,760 Speaker 5: what I wanted to do, and again as urgently as possible. 623 00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:44,759 Speaker 5: The focus was on him, finding him as quickly as possible. 624 00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:47,640 Speaker 5: It really didn't have to do with me as far 625 00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:50,279 Speaker 5: as how I felt about what was happening. It was 626 00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:52,520 Speaker 5: just what I needed to do as his parent to 627 00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:54,759 Speaker 5: help him get recovered as early as possible. So it 628 00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:58,520 Speaker 5: was basically my mission to do every and anything asked 629 00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:02,000 Speaker 5: to clear that process and continue to move forward. So 630 00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:05,200 Speaker 5: it was a lot less about emotion at that point. 631 00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:07,359 Speaker 5: I know, I described the first couple like twenty four 632 00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:11,280 Speaker 5: to forty eight hours just being kind of unresponsive unless 633 00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:15,160 Speaker 5: I was being interviewed with investigators, crying and all that stuff. 634 00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:17,680 Speaker 5: And as we started to get further into the process, 635 00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:19,600 Speaker 5: I kind of have the set that aside and become 636 00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:24,320 Speaker 5: more focused on what needed to be done, the task 637 00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:26,760 Speaker 5: that needed to be done, and not being emotional about 638 00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:28,920 Speaker 5: how I felt. At that particular point in time I 639 00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:31,600 Speaker 5: missed him. I was frantic, but at the same time 640 00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:34,160 Speaker 5: I needed them to focus on who actually did this. 641 00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:36,640 Speaker 5: So it was about clearing. It was one hundred percent 642 00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:40,359 Speaker 5: just about clearing everything that I needed to clear so 643 00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:41,640 Speaker 5: we could stay focused on him. 644 00:36:41,719 --> 00:36:45,240 Speaker 2: I don't even know words to describe what I think 645 00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:46,840 Speaker 2: you've been through. 646 00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:50,520 Speaker 1: But now, what. 647 00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:54,880 Speaker 2: Is your message to anybody out there that may know 648 00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:57,480 Speaker 2: anything about Tyron? 649 00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:01,279 Speaker 5: Well, first and foremost, if you're still out there, we're 650 00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:03,840 Speaker 5: still looking for you. So I will always lead with that. 651 00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:08,520 Speaker 5: No one's given up. We are still looking. We haven't 652 00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:11,120 Speaker 5: given up. We love you, we miss you. We are 653 00:37:11,239 --> 00:37:15,360 Speaker 5: still active, the investigations active, We're still looking to everyone 654 00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:19,880 Speaker 5: out there. Keep recording tips. We have tips coming in 655 00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:23,400 Speaker 5: through the phone still to this day, lots on email. 656 00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:27,640 Speaker 5: There's a website that I'm sure that you guys will 657 00:37:27,640 --> 00:37:29,960 Speaker 5: have the information for that the Sheriff's office has put 658 00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:32,120 Speaker 5: up now. In addition to the one that we've put 659 00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:35,480 Speaker 5: up for the past fourteen years, they recently put up 660 00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:39,040 Speaker 5: a new one that gives a rough timeline, gives the 661 00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:42,160 Speaker 5: tip line, It gives an email tip line. Would encourage 662 00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:45,240 Speaker 5: everyone to submit tips, no matter how big or small 663 00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:48,040 Speaker 5: you think they are. Try not to rule them out, 664 00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:50,080 Speaker 5: try not to filter them. Just submit them and the 665 00:37:50,120 --> 00:37:54,040 Speaker 5: investigators will do that work. But urge anybody who feels 666 00:37:54,120 --> 00:37:57,239 Speaker 5: that they witnessed anything, no matter how long ago it was, 667 00:37:57,600 --> 00:38:01,280 Speaker 5: to submit that information. Through the tip line, and again, 668 00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:04,239 Speaker 5: don't try to filter it out, don't try to vet 669 00:38:04,239 --> 00:38:07,000 Speaker 5: it for yourself, give it, pass it along. So I 670 00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:10,000 Speaker 5: would highly encourage that. The other thing is there are 671 00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:12,880 Speaker 5: age progress photos on the website. There's I think the 672 00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:16,520 Speaker 5: original and three others. He's not seven anymore, and so 673 00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:18,800 Speaker 5: that's one thing that we try to remind folks is 674 00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:20,920 Speaker 5: that he's older. He may or may not have his 675 00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:23,680 Speaker 5: glasses right now as well, So if he is still 676 00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:26,520 Speaker 5: alive and he is out there with somebody, you know, 677 00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:29,080 Speaker 5: we're trying to get people familiarized with those age progressed 678 00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:31,120 Speaker 5: with and without the glasses. So if they do see 679 00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:33,839 Speaker 5: a similarity that they call in that tip as well. 680 00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:35,960 Speaker 5: But the tip line that both the phone and the 681 00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:40,360 Speaker 5: email are open. They're still actively getting tips. Please continue 682 00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:42,840 Speaker 5: to submit them as much as you can. 683 00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:46,719 Speaker 2: You can, of course call Enigma one eight hundred The 684 00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:51,000 Speaker 2: Lost one eight hundred the Lost. 685 00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:56,840 Speaker 1: There is a fifty thousand dollars reward for information leading 686 00:38:56,880 --> 00:38:59,879 Speaker 1: to the resolution of Kiren's disappearance. 687 00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:03,719 Speaker 2: A fifty thousand dollars reward. 688 00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:08,040 Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us joining us in the 689 00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:15,200 Speaker 1: search for Karine Horman. Nancy Grace signing off goodbye friend,