1 00:00:01,400 --> 00:00:07,560 Speaker 1: Quody Bus with Joseph Scott More. When you're a death investigator, 2 00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:13,119 Speaker 1: particularly a medical legal death investigator, you wind up going 3 00:00:13,160 --> 00:00:17,279 Speaker 1: to places that other people don't have the opportunity to 4 00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:20,680 Speaker 1: go to. You see things that you know the common 5 00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:25,239 Speaker 1: folk out there really don't get an appreciation for it. 6 00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:27,479 Speaker 1: And let me give you an example. I've had a 7 00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:30,960 Speaker 1: number of cases over the course of my career that 8 00:00:31,040 --> 00:00:38,199 Speaker 1: have involved industrial sites. I've gone to a variety of 9 00:00:38,240 --> 00:00:43,440 Speaker 1: different factories over the course of my career because of accidents. 10 00:00:43,479 --> 00:00:45,640 Speaker 1: Most of the time. Every now and then you'll get 11 00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:49,800 Speaker 1: a homicide, perhaps at you know, some big plant somewhere. 12 00:00:49,800 --> 00:00:52,199 Speaker 1: But most of the time when I go to these places, 13 00:00:53,840 --> 00:00:59,920 Speaker 1: it's always some big bit of industry. I mean, you name, 14 00:01:00,720 --> 00:01:07,040 Speaker 1: I've been there. You know coal plants, you know auto plants, 15 00:01:09,680 --> 00:01:15,039 Speaker 1: textile mills, And you begin to think about things in 16 00:01:15,800 --> 00:01:19,039 Speaker 1: when you get in there, because it's so massive. You 17 00:01:19,120 --> 00:01:21,360 Speaker 1: might drive by it going down the street and you 18 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:26,960 Speaker 1: never really realize how vast the interior of one of 19 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:32,920 Speaker 1: these factories is, and that it's always described. It's always 20 00:01:32,920 --> 00:01:42,440 Speaker 1: described in terms of in industry. You know, an industrial complex. 21 00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:50,120 Speaker 1: Imagine if you will, though, imagine if you will if 22 00:01:50,280 --> 00:01:58,160 Speaker 1: death and disposal of human remains were described in terms 23 00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:08,720 Speaker 1: of almost industrial sized operation. Today on Bodybacks, we're going 24 00:02:08,840 --> 00:02:15,079 Speaker 1: to chat a bit about a discovery in our neighbors 25 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:21,240 Speaker 1: country to the south, Mexico that is so horrific that 26 00:02:21,600 --> 00:02:29,000 Speaker 1: it brings back memories over eighty years ago of places 27 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:34,200 Speaker 1: that were found in Europe that disposed of humans. The 28 00:02:34,280 --> 00:02:44,120 Speaker 1: horror is unbelievable. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is Bodybacks. 29 00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:50,720 Speaker 1: You know, Dave, think about it is when you look 30 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:54,359 Speaker 1: at a case or cases that we're going to be 31 00:02:54,440 --> 00:02:57,840 Speaker 1: talking about today. I wish we had names. I really do, 32 00:02:57,919 --> 00:03:01,520 Speaker 1: because unfortunately we don't. This is one of those odd 33 00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:06,480 Speaker 1: ball cases where we don't necessarily have a specific name 34 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:11,200 Speaker 1: of anyone at to this point, this investigation is still ongoing. 35 00:03:11,320 --> 00:03:14,520 Speaker 1: But you know, because you and I both like to 36 00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:17,840 Speaker 1: honor the dead. You know, if we, if if anybody 37 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:19,960 Speaker 1: says anything about this show, one of the things that 38 00:03:20,040 --> 00:03:24,160 Speaker 1: we'd like to do is is pay respect to the dead, 39 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:27,480 Speaker 1: because sometimes they have no respect paid to them at all. 40 00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:30,560 Speaker 1: Maybe a word from us is one thing, but in 41 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:34,360 Speaker 1: this case, we we don't really have that. And the 42 00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:39,720 Speaker 1: volume that we're talking about here is mind blowing when I, 43 00:03:39,800 --> 00:03:42,120 Speaker 1: you know, pitch this case to you as part of, 44 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:45,400 Speaker 1: you know, part of what we're doing our catalog here 45 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:50,600 Speaker 1: at Bodybags. I don't know if you were shocked by 46 00:03:50,600 --> 00:03:53,760 Speaker 1: the scale of it. I was. I was, and I'm 47 00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:55,200 Speaker 1: pretty jaded, dude. 48 00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:02,200 Speaker 2: Joe, when it comes right down to it, I am 49 00:04:02,280 --> 00:04:06,000 Speaker 2: shocked by what we're seeing, But more than anything else, 50 00:04:06,040 --> 00:04:10,160 Speaker 2: I'm shocked by the lack of reaction. And it's interesting 51 00:04:10,200 --> 00:04:13,680 Speaker 2: in that during World War Two, at the end of 52 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:18,560 Speaker 2: the war, when the Allied troops were liberating some of 53 00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:23,440 Speaker 2: the camps, the soldiers were so shocked by what they 54 00:04:23,440 --> 00:04:28,320 Speaker 2: were seeing. It was just devastating. And I remember stories 55 00:04:28,360 --> 00:04:32,000 Speaker 2: of how the people who lived in a nearby town 56 00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:33,520 Speaker 2: of one of the I don't know if it was 57 00:04:33,560 --> 00:04:37,200 Speaker 2: booke and malled or I don't know which concentration camp 58 00:04:37,240 --> 00:04:40,839 Speaker 2: it was, but it had been an operation for some time, 59 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:44,680 Speaker 2: and the townspeople acted like they didn't know anything was 60 00:04:44,720 --> 00:04:48,479 Speaker 2: going on, and so the army actually marched them through 61 00:04:48,680 --> 00:04:50,359 Speaker 2: to make them look at what was happening in their 62 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:52,960 Speaker 2: own backyard. That they ignored that these were human beings 63 00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:56,960 Speaker 2: who had been turned into ash. And reading stories of 64 00:04:57,000 --> 00:05:02,120 Speaker 2: that well, you would think, you know where, seventy years 65 00:05:02,200 --> 00:05:05,800 Speaker 2: removed from that, and yet here we sit with the 66 00:05:05,839 --> 00:05:09,040 Speaker 2: same thing happening. But now this death on an industrial 67 00:05:09,080 --> 00:05:13,240 Speaker 2: scale is being done by cartels, drug cartels just south 68 00:05:13,279 --> 00:05:16,080 Speaker 2: of our border. I don't know why there is not 69 00:05:16,279 --> 00:05:19,159 Speaker 2: more of a humanitarian cry. You know, what are we 70 00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:23,280 Speaker 2: doing here? Why are this one particular camp? It is 71 00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:26,640 Speaker 2: just one joe. It is just one and it was 72 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:30,440 Speaker 2: found or actually publicly found by a group that calls 73 00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:34,640 Speaker 2: themselves a volunteer group led by a woman named Indira Navarro. 74 00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:40,640 Speaker 2: It's called the Jalisco Search Warriors. That's what they call themselves, 75 00:05:40,839 --> 00:05:45,719 Speaker 2: the Jalisco Search Warriors, and their goal is to find 76 00:05:46,400 --> 00:05:49,800 Speaker 2: the missing, to find out what happened to people who 77 00:05:50,320 --> 00:05:52,960 Speaker 2: applied for a job somewhere and never came home, which 78 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:56,200 Speaker 2: is what happened in many cases. And it's been going 79 00:05:56,240 --> 00:06:00,800 Speaker 2: on for a long time. Historically speaking, people going missing 80 00:06:01,320 --> 00:06:05,360 Speaker 2: in Mexico has only been the data has only been 81 00:06:05,400 --> 00:06:08,520 Speaker 2: kept since like nineteen sixty two, and in that time, 82 00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:12,480 Speaker 2: one hundred and twenty thousand people in Mexico have gone missing. 83 00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:17,240 Speaker 2: One hundred and twenty thousand people missing. I don't know 84 00:06:17,400 --> 00:06:20,040 Speaker 2: how many we have in the US since nineteen sixty two. 85 00:06:20,680 --> 00:06:22,880 Speaker 2: But I would think one hundred and twenty thousand people 86 00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:26,320 Speaker 2: going missing is a big number and you might have 87 00:06:26,400 --> 00:06:30,120 Speaker 2: to have an answer and finding this camp. They found 88 00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:33,279 Speaker 2: out that, well, the local police did find the camp. 89 00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:36,680 Speaker 2: They found it back several months ago in September, where 90 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:40,240 Speaker 2: they arrested ten people. They released two people who were 91 00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:43,080 Speaker 2: there at being held against their will, and they found 92 00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:46,080 Speaker 2: a body wrapped in plastic. But they didn't go any 93 00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:51,560 Speaker 2: further apparently until the Jalisco search warriors showed up, and 94 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:54,000 Speaker 2: then you know, we know what's going on. It's been 95 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:56,040 Speaker 2: followed by the New York Times in the Washington Post, 96 00:06:56,120 --> 00:06:58,520 Speaker 2: and that's where when you sent me this information, I 97 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:01,839 Speaker 2: started thinking, surely this has to be an overstatement of 98 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:04,440 Speaker 2: what they've found, and it's actually an underplay. 99 00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:08,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, And I got to tell you, I don't know 100 00:07:08,640 --> 00:07:12,800 Speaker 1: that they have found well, there's no way you can't. 101 00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:15,840 Speaker 1: If people think, let's go back to the example of 102 00:07:15,880 --> 00:07:20,480 Speaker 1: the concentration camps in Europe. If people think that they 103 00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:24,240 Speaker 1: found everything over there, you're fooling yourself because they haven't. 104 00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:28,000 Speaker 1: They you know, there are people that are gone that 105 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:32,840 Speaker 1: no one will ever know about you know, what actually 106 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:35,920 Speaker 1: became of them, but it was directly related to an 107 00:07:35,960 --> 00:07:38,720 Speaker 1: individual camp. I submit to you the same thing as 108 00:07:38,760 --> 00:07:42,560 Speaker 1: in practice here where you only have and look, as 109 00:07:42,640 --> 00:07:46,880 Speaker 1: scientists forensics, we only have what we have before us. 110 00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:51,080 Speaker 1: We can't really speculate, particularly if we're going to go 111 00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:54,720 Speaker 1: to court about what could have been. However, when you 112 00:07:55,520 --> 00:07:57,920 Speaker 1: I think that at the root of it, you know, 113 00:07:57,960 --> 00:08:01,120 Speaker 1: when you begin to think about the uh, you least 114 00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:05,840 Speaker 1: go province there that area. And by the way, there 115 00:08:05,960 --> 00:08:11,680 Speaker 1: is actually a cartel there named the New Generation. At 116 00:08:11,760 --> 00:08:15,760 Speaker 1: least go Cartel. I find it interesting that the families 117 00:08:16,600 --> 00:08:20,200 Speaker 1: adopted that name. Uh. It takes at guts. I mean, 118 00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:23,200 Speaker 1: you and I can talk. You and I can talk 119 00:08:23,240 --> 00:08:25,240 Speaker 1: big and bold as much as we want to hear. 120 00:08:25,560 --> 00:08:32,560 Speaker 1: You know, safely ensconced in America. However, you know you're 121 00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:37,000 Speaker 1: down there and it's a wild West, brother, and you 122 00:08:37,040 --> 00:08:39,840 Speaker 1: know that you're going to go out as family member 123 00:08:39,920 --> 00:08:41,920 Speaker 1: and certain you know, you just get to the point, 124 00:08:41,920 --> 00:08:44,640 Speaker 1: I think, and particularly if you get a collective of families, 125 00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:47,600 Speaker 1: you know, what do we have in common? Well, our 126 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:50,720 Speaker 1: loved ones are missing, and Dave, we're not. And this 127 00:08:50,880 --> 00:08:52,920 Speaker 1: is really one of the big sad things about it. 128 00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:57,560 Speaker 1: We'll get into this a little bit later, but we're 129 00:08:57,600 --> 00:09:04,320 Speaker 1: not talking about adult military age males here, that's in 130 00:09:04,360 --> 00:09:09,000 Speaker 1: the grouping. We've got small children whose remains have been found. 131 00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:14,800 Speaker 1: So when you go from and you know, I knew 132 00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:18,880 Speaker 1: doctor Clyde Snow, who if for any of our friends 133 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:22,040 Speaker 1: out there that are not familiar with Clyde Snows, he's 134 00:09:22,040 --> 00:09:25,200 Speaker 1: a guy that coined the phrase that I'm fond of. 135 00:09:25,240 --> 00:09:28,840 Speaker 1: I teach a section on forensic anthropology. He coined the 136 00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:34,760 Speaker 1: phrase called osteobiography, which you're telling the story of someone 137 00:09:35,040 --> 00:09:38,680 Speaker 1: through their skeletal remains. It sounds rather simplistic, but back 138 00:09:39,040 --> 00:09:42,599 Speaker 1: back when he coined that phrase, it was rather revolutionary. 139 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:46,320 Speaker 1: And to that point, doctor Snow went to Central America 140 00:09:47,520 --> 00:09:51,400 Speaker 1: back in the seventies in the eighties and did excavation 141 00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:57,280 Speaker 1: on mass mass graves down there that were politically you know, 142 00:09:57,320 --> 00:09:59,560 Speaker 1: some of this political stuff that was going on down there, 143 00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:02,480 Speaker 1: But most of the people that they would recover out 144 00:10:02,520 --> 00:10:07,200 Speaker 1: of those out of those graves were military age males. 145 00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:12,040 Speaker 1: You know, and you when you take up the scalp 146 00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:14,440 Speaker 1: remains out of the ground, there are certain metrics that 147 00:10:14,520 --> 00:10:18,520 Speaker 1: you measure these remains by where you know, the forensic 148 00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:23,280 Speaker 1: pathologists can ballpark first off, what sex is and what 149 00:10:23,320 --> 00:10:28,400 Speaker 1: the age is. But Dave, that's we're talking about something 150 00:10:28,520 --> 00:10:37,760 Speaker 1: now where you begin to see families, young women, children, 151 00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:43,160 Speaker 1: There were children's toys found about. You know that when 152 00:10:43,160 --> 00:10:45,560 Speaker 1: you start to talk about and that's why the UN 153 00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:48,280 Speaker 1: sponsors a lot of these things, like doctors without borders, 154 00:10:49,040 --> 00:10:51,480 Speaker 1: forensic anthropologists a part of that. Many times they'll go 155 00:10:51,520 --> 00:10:55,200 Speaker 1: over and they'll do these masks, these mass grave recoveries. 156 00:10:56,400 --> 00:11:00,959 Speaker 1: The word, the word genocide begins to slip into the 157 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:07,800 Speaker 1: conversation because it's one thing if you're fighting an enemy, 158 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:12,480 Speaker 1: say military age males, all right, But when you're going 159 00:11:12,520 --> 00:11:18,840 Speaker 1: into homes and perhaps kidnapping and attempting to eradicate an 160 00:11:19,040 --> 00:11:26,280 Speaker 1: entire family, it's much more. If anything can be more chilling, 161 00:11:26,360 --> 00:11:29,920 Speaker 1: it certainly is. It begins to approach that. And all 162 00:11:29,960 --> 00:11:33,280 Speaker 1: of these remains, such as they are, are you know, 163 00:11:33,559 --> 00:11:37,360 Speaker 1: kind of bonded together there. And so kudos to these 164 00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:40,920 Speaker 1: family members that went out there and began to search 165 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:44,480 Speaker 1: the grounds of a location. Like you had mentioned that 166 00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:46,120 Speaker 1: the police had already been today. 167 00:11:45,880 --> 00:11:48,520 Speaker 2: Right, they just didn't look further. But now are we 168 00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:53,040 Speaker 2: really talking about being able to identify human beings from 169 00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:56,520 Speaker 2: the ash from the what's left over from the remains 170 00:11:56,559 --> 00:11:59,640 Speaker 2: the creamines rather, or are we really going to have 171 00:11:59,679 --> 00:12:04,079 Speaker 2: to make certain assumptions based on clothing shoes left behind, 172 00:12:04,960 --> 00:12:08,280 Speaker 2: the sizes, the types we do know. We've got this 173 00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:13,840 Speaker 2: picture that has gone from this and it shows pictures 174 00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:16,880 Speaker 2: of clothing, but shoes in particular. You get children's sizes 175 00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:20,680 Speaker 2: of shoes, women's shoes. We're not just talking about men, 176 00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:24,120 Speaker 2: as you mentioned, that were somehow ran a foul of 177 00:12:24,160 --> 00:12:27,280 Speaker 2: the cartel. We're talking about people who have been wiped 178 00:12:27,320 --> 00:12:31,000 Speaker 2: out for whatever reason. And I don't pretend to know 179 00:12:32,080 --> 00:12:35,600 Speaker 2: what goes into the thought process of a cartel when 180 00:12:35,640 --> 00:12:39,320 Speaker 2: they're taking over an area. We know that based on 181 00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:44,800 Speaker 2: what we have seen in the past, they rule. You know, 182 00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:47,640 Speaker 2: it's a life or death situation every day, and children 183 00:12:47,679 --> 00:12:49,559 Speaker 2: are included in this. If you do not bend to 184 00:12:49,640 --> 00:12:51,320 Speaker 2: their will, if you don't do what they tell you 185 00:12:51,360 --> 00:12:54,240 Speaker 2: to do, they kill you, mainly because they don't want 186 00:12:54,240 --> 00:12:56,319 Speaker 2: you ratting on them. You know, somebody who does not 187 00:12:56,440 --> 00:12:59,959 Speaker 2: participate is the enemy. So is that what we're really 188 00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:04,439 Speaker 2: looking at here? That these people were recruited to become 189 00:13:04,559 --> 00:13:07,520 Speaker 2: part of the cartel in becoming foot soldiers or whatever 190 00:13:07,559 --> 00:13:10,880 Speaker 2: they wanted, and they were given the opportunity to join 191 00:13:12,040 --> 00:13:14,199 Speaker 2: or not. And if they decided, I'm not going to 192 00:13:14,240 --> 00:13:16,800 Speaker 2: be a part of this, then they practiced their torture 193 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:20,720 Speaker 2: techniques and ways to murder on the people who wouldn't 194 00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:23,400 Speaker 2: go along. Is that what we're dealing with. I'm curious 195 00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:24,720 Speaker 2: because that's what it looks like. 196 00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:28,240 Speaker 1: No, I don't think it's people that want simply, it's 197 00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:32,199 Speaker 1: not just a matter of using people that are eradicating 198 00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:37,560 Speaker 1: people that are not going along. I think that death 199 00:13:40,040 --> 00:13:44,520 Speaker 1: death is utilized as a message. You know, there are 200 00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:49,000 Speaker 1: a number of accounts it was actually portrayed. For those 201 00:13:49,040 --> 00:13:53,040 Speaker 1: that have actually seen the movie Cecario, the very first one. 202 00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:55,800 Speaker 1: There's been two. I think they might do a third. 203 00:13:55,840 --> 00:13:59,280 Speaker 1: But the Ccario, there's when they go to war. As 204 00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:03,320 Speaker 1: in the first first part of that movie, you see 205 00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:10,199 Speaker 1: people corpses hung off of bridges and strung up by 206 00:14:10,200 --> 00:14:13,960 Speaker 1: the neck, dead in various stages of decay because people 207 00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:16,440 Speaker 1: are afraid to cut them down. They're sending a message 208 00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:19,840 Speaker 1: with that and listen, those people are not that you see. 209 00:14:19,880 --> 00:14:21,600 Speaker 1: And I think one of the characters in the movie 210 00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:24,360 Speaker 1: actually alludes to this is and this has been known 211 00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:29,920 Speaker 1: for some time. As part of the methodology, you don't 212 00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:32,640 Speaker 1: necessarily have to be a direct threat to the cartel. 213 00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:38,280 Speaker 1: Your mortal remains, Dave, and let that sink in. Your 214 00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:45,800 Speaker 1: mortal remains are used as a big, flashing, decaying neon 215 00:14:46,040 --> 00:14:52,640 Speaker 1: sign to those that are outside to beware or you 216 00:14:52,760 --> 00:15:11,800 Speaker 1: might wind up in the same condition they've I want 217 00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:15,280 Speaker 1: to get back to the families in their search for 218 00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:20,320 Speaker 1: these remains. You had pointed something out to me in 219 00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:25,680 Speaker 1: your production notes that really stuck with me, because I 220 00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:31,000 Speaker 1: don't think that I've ever heard of this methodology as 221 00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:33,040 Speaker 1: a forensic scientist that has spent a lot of time 222 00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:37,600 Speaker 1: in the field looking for human remains. Is it true 223 00:15:38,080 --> 00:15:45,400 Speaker 1: from what you're reading that this Hillsco family group went 224 00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:50,600 Speaker 1: out with metal rods searching beneath the earth looking for you? 225 00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:55,480 Speaker 1: And how are they what methodology are they applying here 226 00:15:55,520 --> 00:15:58,160 Speaker 1: in order to facilitate this This is it's mind blowing. 227 00:15:58,360 --> 00:16:02,000 Speaker 2: Well, you know, they don't have have ground penetrating radar 228 00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:05,800 Speaker 2: and things like that that we expect here when we're 229 00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:09,880 Speaker 2: dealing with an investigation. And as we mentioned, we are 230 00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:13,640 Speaker 2: dealing with volunteers, and you, I'm so glad you pointed 231 00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:18,080 Speaker 2: out that they even name themselves, that these volunteers are 232 00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:22,240 Speaker 2: truly warriors, they know what they're faced with, and yet 233 00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:26,600 Speaker 2: they use the name Jalisco Search Warriors. I know, I 234 00:16:26,640 --> 00:16:30,680 Speaker 2: said Julli'sco earlier, Sorry, Jalisco Search Warriors, because it's a 235 00:16:30,760 --> 00:16:34,560 Speaker 2: knockoff of the Jalisco New Generation cartel. And they're saying, 236 00:16:34,680 --> 00:16:37,080 Speaker 2: this is who we are, We're going to do something, 237 00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:40,600 Speaker 2: and knowing what they are faced with day in and 238 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:43,560 Speaker 2: day out, which is certain death at some point, and 239 00:16:43,640 --> 00:16:47,280 Speaker 2: yet they go into this place that the police were 240 00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:50,840 Speaker 2: in not that long ago, and they start discovering things 241 00:16:51,080 --> 00:16:54,920 Speaker 2: that the police failed to look into, and they use 242 00:16:55,920 --> 00:16:59,280 Speaker 2: a poker of some sort. And I made a note 243 00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:05,439 Speaker 2: of it because I was thinking, are they when we 244 00:17:06,280 --> 00:17:12,520 Speaker 2: look at how one investigates something of this nature? How 245 00:17:12,600 --> 00:17:16,160 Speaker 2: do you search layer by layer to know what you're 246 00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:19,800 Speaker 2: actually looking for? We see archaeologists in movies and on TV, 247 00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:22,360 Speaker 2: and how they have You know, they got string going 248 00:17:22,440 --> 00:17:24,879 Speaker 2: everywhere in pegs, and they're march do all out and 249 00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:27,880 Speaker 2: they're using brushes and their fingers and you know they're 250 00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:29,720 Speaker 2: going all out that's not what we have here. We've 251 00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:32,440 Speaker 2: got a group of volunteers who are trying to find 252 00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:35,520 Speaker 2: loved ones that they are presumer dead, and they find 253 00:17:35,560 --> 00:17:38,080 Speaker 2: these bones, and so they're starting to dig around and 254 00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:41,480 Speaker 2: they use a metal poker to actually stick in the 255 00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:46,200 Speaker 2: ground and they pull it out and they smell it, Yeah, 256 00:17:46,320 --> 00:17:49,200 Speaker 2: to figure out what it is that is actually beneath 257 00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:53,760 Speaker 2: their feet. Is there a certain smell of death that 258 00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:57,840 Speaker 2: they are trying to smell that actually could be recovered 259 00:17:57,880 --> 00:17:58,480 Speaker 2: in such a way. 260 00:17:58,840 --> 00:18:01,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, you're up right, And it all depends on and 261 00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:05,320 Speaker 1: what you're looking for when you're doing a body recovery. 262 00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:08,560 Speaker 1: And in this case, you know, they don't know what 263 00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:10,840 Speaker 1: they're what they're doing with because you know, if you 264 00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:16,639 Speaker 1: had if you had ground penetrating radar out there and 265 00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:19,800 Speaker 1: you were running over the surface, which, by the way, 266 00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:23,680 Speaker 1: for those that have never seen ground penetrating radar, they 267 00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:26,320 Speaker 1: used to look a lot like an old push mower. 268 00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:29,800 Speaker 1: But they're a bit more compact now and they rely 269 00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:37,960 Speaker 1: relay data back to a central server, and that data 270 00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:41,640 Speaker 1: that's being bounced back up to the machine, it's being 271 00:18:41,680 --> 00:18:44,800 Speaker 1: translated and you can pick up on different formations beneath 272 00:18:44,840 --> 00:18:48,800 Speaker 1: the surface, but just to begin with, and it's something 273 00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:54,159 Speaker 1: that we look like look for in modern body recovery 274 00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:57,080 Speaker 1: because you have to be very careful here because I 275 00:18:57,119 --> 00:19:02,640 Speaker 1: know most people think about archaeology and Anna Jones, when 276 00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:09,600 Speaker 1: you're you're thinking about ancient archaeology, the layering that goes 277 00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:14,840 Speaker 1: on is so deep, dependent upon obviously the strata will 278 00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:18,679 Speaker 1: be so deep, dependent upon how many years back you're going, 279 00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:21,280 Speaker 1: and so it'll be really packed down, the soil will 280 00:19:21,320 --> 00:19:26,320 Speaker 1: be Okay, So like you and I, we live in 281 00:19:26,359 --> 00:19:32,679 Speaker 1: an area that was heavily populated by the name that 282 00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:35,840 Speaker 1: the Whites gave them, which was the Creek Indians. Okay. 283 00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:38,960 Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, one of our local shopping centers, 284 00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:42,040 Speaker 1: and you might be familiar with the story, they built 285 00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:44,720 Speaker 1: a shopping center here and there was a huge mound 286 00:19:45,359 --> 00:19:47,320 Speaker 1: behind it and they just assumed that it was a hill, 287 00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:50,800 Speaker 1: and they cut into that hill and they took field 288 00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:52,560 Speaker 1: dirt out of it. Well, it turned out that it 289 00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:55,400 Speaker 1: was actually an Indian mound. It's one of the great 290 00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:59,800 Speaker 1: shames around here, having a considerable amount of Native American 291 00:20:01,119 --> 00:20:05,639 Speaker 1: ancestry in my family tree. It, you know, it was 292 00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:08,359 Speaker 1: a real shame that they didn't do their due diligence 293 00:20:09,040 --> 00:20:10,720 Speaker 1: in trying to understand that. But you know, when you 294 00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:13,680 Speaker 1: see that, it just looks like a hill, okay, And 295 00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:17,119 Speaker 1: that's the presumption that they went under when we're talking 296 00:20:17,119 --> 00:20:20,800 Speaker 1: about a fresh burial like this, and this is fresh 297 00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:24,120 Speaker 1: when we look at the broad time. You know, when 298 00:20:24,119 --> 00:20:26,879 Speaker 1: you compare it to ancient we're not talking about the 299 00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:29,359 Speaker 1: Mayans or the Aztecs or anything like that down in 300 00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:33,919 Speaker 1: meso America. We're talking about people that have died just 301 00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:35,639 Speaker 1: in the last few years. So one of the things 302 00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:42,800 Speaker 1: that even a neophyte that's going out to search for remains, 303 00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:45,679 Speaker 1: you're looking for what's referred to as turned to earth. 304 00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:50,679 Speaker 1: So on the surface of it, when we're surveying an area, 305 00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:55,879 Speaker 1: the first thing we're going to look for is disruption 306 00:20:55,960 --> 00:20:58,600 Speaker 1: of vegetation. That's one of the markers that you look 307 00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:00,199 Speaker 1: for when you go out to an area, and it 308 00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:02,720 Speaker 1: can be something very benign, like, for instance, if you've 309 00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:07,560 Speaker 1: got and I know nothing about the flora in this 310 00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:14,040 Speaker 1: in the Hollisco state there in Mexico. However, let's just 311 00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:17,520 Speaker 1: say they've got some kind of particular scrub brush that's 312 00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:22,720 Speaker 1: low growth and it's populating the entire area. Well, what's 313 00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:25,159 Speaker 1: really fascinating. You can do this yourself. If you go 314 00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:28,360 Speaker 1: out to an area and you've got a common nuisance 315 00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:33,560 Speaker 1: weed that's growing it very well, if you see a 316 00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:39,680 Speaker 1: big area that's absent of that weed that is naturally occurring, 317 00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:43,719 Speaker 1: there's an assumption that you can make saying, well, something 318 00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:47,920 Speaker 1: has occurred in this specific area that that vegetation no 319 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:51,040 Speaker 1: longer grows here or hasn't grown here in some time. Okay, 320 00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:54,560 Speaker 1: So as a starting point, one of the things that 321 00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:57,600 Speaker 1: you would look for is disruption of vegetation, and then 322 00:21:57,640 --> 00:22:00,520 Speaker 1: you would look for uneven soil where it looks like 323 00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:03,840 Speaker 1: somebody has put shovel to dirt or heavy equipment to 324 00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:08,240 Speaker 1: dirt and they've literally turned the soil. Because once you 325 00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:12,040 Speaker 1: unpack soil, Dave, this is what gets me about people 326 00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:16,399 Speaker 1: that bury bodies. Once you turn that soil, it is 327 00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:22,240 Speaker 1: impossible to get that soil to get back to its 328 00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:26,280 Speaker 1: natural configuration. That took hundreds, maybe thousands of years. No 329 00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:30,440 Speaker 1: one has put a tool to it, and in all 330 00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:32,639 Speaker 1: of that time, and suddenly you think that you're going 331 00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:36,240 Speaker 1: to mask that area by taking a shovel out of 332 00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:37,760 Speaker 1: the shed and you're going to dig a hole and 333 00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:40,560 Speaker 1: you know we're going to see it. You know, well 334 00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:45,199 Speaker 1: it'll stand out and it doesn't matter really. I submit 335 00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:46,720 Speaker 1: to you, Dave, that you could go out there with 336 00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:50,159 Speaker 1: a group of guys with you know those tampers that 337 00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:52,720 Speaker 1: they use that are kind of square, you see them 338 00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:56,520 Speaker 1: on work sites. You get a whole team of guys 339 00:22:56,560 --> 00:22:59,400 Speaker 1: out there and kind of tamp in the soil around there, 340 00:22:59,720 --> 00:23:04,840 Speaker 1: it's still not going to match up visually to what 341 00:23:05,119 --> 00:23:09,240 Speaker 1: the rest of the naturally occurring area is. So, you know, 342 00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:12,120 Speaker 1: for these families that are going out there and they 343 00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:16,480 Speaker 1: don't have access to this kind of technology like we 344 00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:19,919 Speaker 1: have here or in other locations, you gotta do what 345 00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:23,280 Speaker 1: you got to do, and to take a metal rod 346 00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:25,720 Speaker 1: and to begin to stick it into the soil and 347 00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:28,240 Speaker 1: draw it out. First off, you're going to test the depth. 348 00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:31,800 Speaker 1: How far down can you get that metal rod? You know, 349 00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:35,720 Speaker 1: are you going to strike kind of a solid, solid 350 00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:39,639 Speaker 1: structure down below, because you're if you've got decaying human 351 00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:43,280 Speaker 1: remains that are below the surface, you're not really going 352 00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:49,480 Speaker 1: to be able to to say, okay, I just pass. 353 00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:52,040 Speaker 1: Their human remains really not going to feel it. Most 354 00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:55,800 Speaker 1: of the time, but when you draw it out, there 355 00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:59,000 Speaker 1: will be dependent upon how fresh dead people are. There 356 00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:01,600 Speaker 1: will be a foul to this that you will certainly 357 00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:03,920 Speaker 1: appreciate very very quickly. And it's not going to smell 358 00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:07,639 Speaker 1: necessarily like if you took the rod and placed it 359 00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:10,640 Speaker 1: into the ground, you happen you have happened upon methane 360 00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:14,000 Speaker 1: or something like that. It's not going to have have that. 361 00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:17,680 Speaker 1: It's not going to have a rotten egg smell to it. 362 00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:20,240 Speaker 1: It will in fact our sulf or rather, it will 363 00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:24,840 Speaker 1: have a very distinctive human decay smell to it, even 364 00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:26,960 Speaker 1: mixed with the dirt, commingled with the dirt. And so 365 00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:29,880 Speaker 1: that's what they're doing. And I can only imagine that 366 00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:33,240 Speaker 1: you've got people out there. I've imagined these people with 367 00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:36,280 Speaker 1: pieces of rebar, which is like you know what you 368 00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:38,919 Speaker 1: use to reinforce concrete with, and they're kind of walking 369 00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:40,840 Speaker 1: a breast and they're kind of sticking these things in 370 00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:44,200 Speaker 1: the ground. And they've got this organized to the point 371 00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:48,520 Speaker 1: where somebody and we do this still when we're surveying 372 00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:52,119 Speaker 1: an area, we will walk abreast at a what we 373 00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:54,840 Speaker 1: think is a dump sight or a burial site. There'll 374 00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:58,160 Speaker 1: be a team of us. We'll walk abreast and when 375 00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:02,400 Speaker 1: one person finds something, everybody halts. You don't progress beyond that, 376 00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:05,080 Speaker 1: and you mark it with a flag, and in a 377 00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:08,560 Speaker 1: rudimentary way. That might be what they're doing. This is 378 00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:11,040 Speaker 1: an old tom skill that they're employing. You know, before 379 00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:13,800 Speaker 1: the days, you know that we had ground penetrating radar. 380 00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:17,400 Speaker 1: Somebody has experience that's out there looking for the dead 381 00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:21,280 Speaker 1: and this isn't you know, this isn't their first rodeo either. Yeah. 382 00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:23,960 Speaker 1: I keep picking because there's a method to the to 383 00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:24,720 Speaker 1: the madness here. 384 00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:28,879 Speaker 2: I'm picturing Yukon Cornelius, you know in Rudolph when he 385 00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:30,600 Speaker 2: took his pick and he'd throw it up and he 386 00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:32,159 Speaker 2: was stick in the ice and he'd take it and 387 00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:34,359 Speaker 2: smell it and lick it, you know, and it was 388 00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:37,160 Speaker 2: like that was his I'm kind of picturing these guys 389 00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:39,399 Speaker 2: the same way they're paid. And I'm so glad you 390 00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:41,520 Speaker 2: said Revar. I was trying to picture in my head 391 00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:44,840 Speaker 2: what type of metal, and that actually does fit because 392 00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:47,400 Speaker 2: if you just go out of your backyard and you 393 00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:50,159 Speaker 2: stick a piece of metal like that, like Revar, just 394 00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:52,320 Speaker 2: see what you can do in your grass. It's not 395 00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:55,080 Speaker 2: going down very deep. No, but if you go to 396 00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:58,240 Speaker 2: an area where you were digging and where you were 397 00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:00,760 Speaker 2: you know, planting something and you stick it in there, 398 00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:03,280 Speaker 2: it's going to go in several inches. So that's your 399 00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:06,240 Speaker 2: first indicator that you have soil, you've got an area. 400 00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:10,200 Speaker 2: Isn't there a way when we're searching for bodies and 401 00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:12,880 Speaker 2: not we but in stories you and I have covered 402 00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:18,760 Speaker 2: where law enforcement flies overhead and they can actually have 403 00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:23,119 Speaker 2: an ability to see areas with infrared that have been disturbed. 404 00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:26,399 Speaker 2: Where you do have ground that has changed. Because you 405 00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:28,639 Speaker 2: pointed out you got thousands of years where it's been 406 00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:30,359 Speaker 2: sitting there, nobody messing with it. Now all of a 407 00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:32,439 Speaker 2: sudden it's been turned up. It is going to be 408 00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:34,200 Speaker 2: different scientifically speaking. 409 00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:36,199 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I'm glad you said that because we go 410 00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:43,199 Speaker 1: back to the Daybill case out in Idaho. How quickly 411 00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:45,600 Speaker 1: we she's in our trial right now. I think I 412 00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:50,520 Speaker 1: already forgot about that, but we you know, early on 413 00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:53,720 Speaker 1: when I saw that site, you know where they sat, 414 00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:55,760 Speaker 1: you know, I remember I was alive on the air 415 00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:59,719 Speaker 1: when I saw it, and I talked about how that's 416 00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:03,639 Speaker 1: a ring. I think I was on CNN when I 417 00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:06,160 Speaker 1: saw it the first time, and I said, and that's 418 00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:08,480 Speaker 1: a great disposal area, And it turned out that that's 419 00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:13,560 Speaker 1: where Kaylee's remains were. My understanding was was that they 420 00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:17,800 Speaker 1: were doing drone flyovers relative to that area to try 421 00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:19,639 Speaker 1: to map the area initially. Now I don't know if 422 00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:21,280 Speaker 1: that ever came to fruition, but that's one of the 423 00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:23,919 Speaker 1: things that the authorities had at least leaked out at 424 00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:26,040 Speaker 1: one point in time that they were trying to get 425 00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:29,919 Speaker 1: images to see where the soil has been disrupted in 426 00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:32,399 Speaker 1: that area. And it was but it was kind of plain. 427 00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:36,760 Speaker 1: You didn't need because you know, you look at Chad 428 00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:40,360 Speaker 1: day Bell's property and it's pasture land. You know, that 429 00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:43,040 Speaker 1: block of land. It's like a paddock what they call 430 00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:45,320 Speaker 1: a paddock where you keep horses and whatnots kind of 431 00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:49,679 Speaker 1: fenced in and all of that. You saw green grass growing. 432 00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:52,600 Speaker 1: But in that those areas, like I was referring to earlier, 433 00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:55,280 Speaker 1: where Kaylee was found and of course that little boy 434 00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:59,359 Speaker 1: was found, that was like immediately adjacent to that tree, 435 00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:02,720 Speaker 1: and that was like an old dried up retention pond 436 00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:07,080 Speaker 1: that soil had had been turned. You can also do 437 00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:11,800 Speaker 1: air sampling as well to get an idea of what's 438 00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:16,760 Speaker 1: decaine beneath the surface. Now you don't know if it's 439 00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:20,800 Speaker 1: you can't say with scientific certainty, which some people would 440 00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:25,000 Speaker 1: have you believe. Think back to Casey Anthony by the way. 441 00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:31,240 Speaker 1: They'll say you can specifically, you know, say that this 442 00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:34,040 Speaker 1: is a human decomposing down there. No, you can't, because 443 00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:36,359 Speaker 1: it might be any kind of animal. But at least 444 00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:39,160 Speaker 1: you're in a at least you're in the neighborhood, you know, 445 00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:42,200 Speaker 1: when you're conducting an investigation, so they can do air 446 00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:45,600 Speaker 1: sampling as well. But you know, these people are not 447 00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:49,440 Speaker 1: going to have that kind of technology. This was This 448 00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:52,400 Speaker 1: was sheer determination and elbow grease on the part of 449 00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:58,960 Speaker 1: these families. And that's that's what's so touching brutal about this. 450 00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:05,400 Speaker 1: They're missing all these family members. And you know, one 451 00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:09,640 Speaker 1: of the things that really tugged at me when I 452 00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:13,480 Speaker 1: saw it initially when this case came up. If you 453 00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:17,360 Speaker 1: didn't need any more emphasis here, because we're hearing stories 454 00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:23,880 Speaker 1: about cremation ovens, we're hearing stories about particulate bomb, we've 455 00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:28,880 Speaker 1: heard rumors of children and toys. But the one thing 456 00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:32,400 Speaker 1: that really stuck in my mind was an image that 457 00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:36,600 Speaker 1: I saw many years ago when I visited the Holocaust 458 00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:40,920 Speaker 1: Museum in DC. It affected me to the point where 459 00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:45,720 Speaker 1: I can't go back in there. And it was shoes, 460 00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:53,600 Speaker 1: collected shoes, piles of them. You can't take the measure 461 00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:56,959 Speaker 1: of it, but you can look at each pair and 462 00:29:57,080 --> 00:30:18,120 Speaker 1: know that they represent someone who was loved this Guarry Ranch, 463 00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:20,760 Speaker 1: I'm looking at an image of it right now. The 464 00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:25,360 Speaker 1: reason I'm looking at this image is that there is 465 00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:35,160 Speaker 1: a shot of a Mexican National guardsmen in full military 466 00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:40,640 Speaker 1: kit standing outside of the gate. He's standing there, and 467 00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:43,400 Speaker 1: when I say gate, I'm talking about a gate that 468 00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:47,360 Speaker 1: has got the name emblazoned on the front of it. 469 00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:51,680 Speaker 1: It's a steel gate, It's massive, and there are two 470 00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:55,200 Speaker 1: dancing horses on the outside of it. It was within 471 00:30:56,040 --> 00:31:06,520 Speaker 1: these walls, that's three three crematory ovens were discovered. And 472 00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:10,920 Speaker 1: you can't you cannot run fast enough to sell me 473 00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:13,400 Speaker 1: the story if they did not know what was going 474 00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:16,480 Speaker 1: on inside of those walls. Dave, And one of the 475 00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:20,160 Speaker 1: big things here is that people are terrified, even the authorities. 476 00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:24,480 Speaker 1: We've known that for a long time. What went on 477 00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:28,320 Speaker 1: on the other side of those walls is horrific. I 478 00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:32,760 Speaker 1: think my question is this still going on in other locations, 479 00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:36,120 Speaker 1: because this seems The reason I think that it could 480 00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:40,400 Speaker 1: potentially be is the fact that Dave, based upon what 481 00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:42,560 Speaker 1: we're hearing and seeing right now, they seem to have 482 00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:43,760 Speaker 1: this now to a science. 483 00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:47,000 Speaker 2: You know, you get to the effort underground show. Yeah, 484 00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:49,920 Speaker 2: I mean that's not something you just come up with 485 00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:52,560 Speaker 2: all of a sudden. This is through trial and error, 486 00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:55,240 Speaker 2: just like the Nazis did during World War Two when 487 00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:59,800 Speaker 2: they were developing destruction of human beings on an end 488 00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:05,120 Speaker 2: austrial scale. They tried many different things. They started off 489 00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:07,720 Speaker 2: just shooting everybody, you know, they'd have their soldiers shoot them, 490 00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:10,680 Speaker 2: and they saw there was an emotional component to that 491 00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:13,960 Speaker 2: that actually was causing harm to their soldiers. So they 492 00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:18,640 Speaker 2: then decided carbon monoxide. They're actually pictures of these long 493 00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:22,680 Speaker 2: showers that were hooked up and you've got cars with tailpipes, 494 00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:26,280 Speaker 2: you know, extensions going into these buildings. That didn't get 495 00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:29,160 Speaker 2: work fast enough. I mean, they just kept developing it 496 00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:31,200 Speaker 2: until finally they're like, you know what, we're going to 497 00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:33,440 Speaker 2: poison them in the showers and just take the bodies 498 00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:38,360 Speaker 2: right over here. These ovens, these three crematory ovens, were 499 00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:42,360 Speaker 2: all underground, which means they had to have piping to 500 00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:45,720 Speaker 2: get the exhaust down. It's got to go somewhere, and 501 00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:50,360 Speaker 2: it's going to have a distinct I'm guessing a distinct odor. 502 00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:53,200 Speaker 2: You're not going to be burning bodies down to you know, 503 00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:54,680 Speaker 2: just FYI. 504 00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:55,960 Speaker 1: So you know this. 505 00:32:57,400 --> 00:33:00,560 Speaker 2: When you get cremains back from if it's a loved 506 00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:05,000 Speaker 2: one and they've been cremated. I remember the first time 507 00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:08,680 Speaker 2: seeing I thought it was powdery, like U see in 508 00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:11,920 Speaker 2: movies where people they spread ashes and they're really ashes. 509 00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:13,800 Speaker 2: They just kind of float off into the ether, and 510 00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:16,600 Speaker 2: that's not what you get. It's much different than that. 511 00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:19,800 Speaker 2: Oftentimes there's teeth and bone fragments and things like that 512 00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:24,040 Speaker 2: in the cremains, and that's what we're finding here. So 513 00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:29,080 Speaker 2: we've got these three ovens underground that they're using to 514 00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:33,960 Speaker 2: try to destroy evidence being human beings. And I'm wondering, 515 00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:37,720 Speaker 2: what can you get forensically out of the cremains, show 516 00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:44,240 Speaker 2: what's left behind. Is there a possibility of getting DNA, Well, heat. 517 00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:47,160 Speaker 1: Really compromises things. I think that that would be very difficult. 518 00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:48,760 Speaker 1: I think the best they're going to be able to 519 00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:55,000 Speaker 1: do is probably aging of the remains one of the 520 00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:57,560 Speaker 1: big keys that are going to be the teeth, the 521 00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:01,520 Speaker 1: teeth that you recover, and that's a real shame because 522 00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:07,240 Speaker 1: you you know, teeth are not bone. Just everybody understands 523 00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:11,120 Speaker 1: that teeth are socketed in bone, you know, in our 524 00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:14,560 Speaker 1: mandible and our maxilla, but they are not bone. They're 525 00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:19,400 Speaker 1: the composition is completely different, and they're more resilient. As 526 00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:20,880 Speaker 1: a matter of fact, I think I've talked about it 527 00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:23,759 Speaker 1: on bodybags, but if you were to you know, they 528 00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:26,880 Speaker 1: talk about extracting DNA from long bones or you know, 529 00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:28,560 Speaker 1: like the head of the femur, that sort of thing. 530 00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:32,880 Speaker 1: I talk about how if you were to think biologically 531 00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:39,560 Speaker 1: of a I don't know, a conveyance or storage for DNA, 532 00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:44,200 Speaker 1: bone would be a leather briefcase and teeth would be 533 00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:48,880 Speaker 1: a titanium briefcase. They're both serving the purpose of storing 534 00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:52,759 Speaker 1: DNA and you can collect them. But teeth are so resilient. 535 00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:55,959 Speaker 1: You know, when it comes, you know, you get into 536 00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:58,799 Speaker 1: the pulp and you can extract it from there. One 537 00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:02,839 Speaker 1: of the components with a crematory, which we don't have 538 00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:05,560 Speaker 1: evidence of right now, and I'm going to be very 539 00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:10,839 Speaker 1: curious to find this out Dave is In crematories, I've 540 00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:16,840 Speaker 1: seen two things. I've seen great big marble rollers that 541 00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:18,839 Speaker 1: are at the end of the conveyor belt that come 542 00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:21,719 Speaker 1: out of you know, that come out of the ovens, 543 00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:28,719 Speaker 1: and they run opposing so as the remains go down. 544 00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:31,839 Speaker 1: And this is really old timing here, I don't think 545 00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:36,360 Speaker 1: anybody uses anymore. They roll opposing these big rollers and 546 00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:41,280 Speaker 1: they're essentially bone crushers and they crush everything else that's 547 00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:44,120 Speaker 1: that remains and you know, it's collected in a bent. 548 00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:48,520 Speaker 1: Now they use an auger, which you know, if you've 549 00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:52,520 Speaker 1: ever seen an auger, which is kind of graduated, looks 550 00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:57,719 Speaker 1: like a gigantic screw that's used now to facilitate the 551 00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:02,040 Speaker 1: crushing of the bones here at Jacksonville State. As a 552 00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:03,759 Speaker 1: matter of fact, I've got a local funeral home that 553 00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:06,400 Speaker 1: I take my death investigation class too, and they have 554 00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:11,680 Speaker 1: a crematory there and it's really profound for the students 555 00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:14,080 Speaker 1: to walk in there and to see and everything has 556 00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:18,760 Speaker 1: dust on it that yeah, I mean, it's there's dust, 557 00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:20,640 Speaker 1: you know when you walk in and. 558 00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:24,640 Speaker 2: It's not really dust, is it, Yeah. 559 00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:28,160 Speaker 1: Well, yeah, it's it's there's a residue that is there 560 00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:30,719 Speaker 1: but that's that's part of you know, there's nothing. I 561 00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:35,680 Speaker 1: think people want to think that, you know, death is 562 00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:39,239 Speaker 1: so clean, and it's not. It's dirty business. It's very 563 00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:45,480 Speaker 1: dirty business. And you know, with our our cases that 564 00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:48,480 Speaker 1: we're talking about today, with this what what the media 565 00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:54,000 Speaker 1: has termed as a concentration camp, because it's not just 566 00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:57,000 Speaker 1: the disposal of the reins. They found evidence of torture 567 00:36:57,040 --> 00:37:00,799 Speaker 1: chambers there too, day where I think think part of 568 00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:04,800 Speaker 1: what you said was really accurate earlier. They're trying to 569 00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:07,359 Speaker 1: extricate information from somebody, you know, while else do you 570 00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:11,839 Speaker 1: to unless you're just a pure sadist and you get 571 00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:15,000 Speaker 1: off on torturing people, which I'm not saying that these 572 00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:20,680 Speaker 1: individuals may be. I have no idea, but when you 573 00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:26,800 Speaker 1: think about the purpose of torture, you want to extract 574 00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:29,520 Speaker 1: information from people, And there's evidence that this had been 575 00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:33,960 Speaker 1: ongoing in this area. And what information could a child have, 576 00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:39,000 Speaker 1: you know, unless the child is their torture is being 577 00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:41,880 Speaker 1: used as a way to elicit information from maybe an 578 00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:44,879 Speaker 1: adult that's you know, maybe a parent or something, which 579 00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:50,279 Speaker 1: again is very chilling. And all of these remains are 580 00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:55,200 Speaker 1: being found commingled, so one of the problems that you're 581 00:37:55,239 --> 00:37:58,160 Speaker 1: going to encounter if in fact all the remains have 582 00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:02,399 Speaker 1: been cremated, because some of them very well may not have. 583 00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:05,640 Speaker 1: And so you might have those that are that are 584 00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:09,360 Speaker 1: buried in certain locations. Going back to this probe that 585 00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:13,000 Speaker 1: they're using to go down into the earth, you might 586 00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:17,359 Speaker 1: have people that were intact when they were buried. And 587 00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:19,520 Speaker 1: that's going to give you a clue because you can 588 00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:23,080 Speaker 1: you know, everything is like a investigatively. It's like if 589 00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:25,880 Speaker 1: people will just envision in their mind an inverted funnel. 590 00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:28,600 Speaker 1: So as you get closer to the apex of it, 591 00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:30,759 Speaker 1: at the top of it, if you've got it, it looks 592 00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:34,279 Speaker 1: like a mountain peak. Your information is slowly beginning to 593 00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:36,560 Speaker 1: narrow it down. And if you you know, if you 594 00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:41,240 Speaker 1: have an intact body where you can get sex, age, race, 595 00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:46,000 Speaker 1: those elements, you might have shot at getting them identified, 596 00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:49,400 Speaker 1: and you know that they're not part of the cremains. 597 00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:54,080 Speaker 1: And if there are other people in that intact body, 598 00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:58,800 Speaker 1: if there are members of their family that are still missing, 599 00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:02,120 Speaker 1: than one of the assumptions you can make investigatively is 600 00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:06,000 Speaker 1: they may have been cremated and you might not find 601 00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:08,520 Speaker 1: them there on the compound or elsewhere, you know where 602 00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:13,239 Speaker 1: they've been discarded, so you know, at the end of 603 00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:16,080 Speaker 1: the day, though, when you have these cremated remains that 604 00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:20,400 Speaker 1: are literally comingled, you're gonna have bone chips that are 605 00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:27,080 Speaker 1: thrown together. Well, you can pretty easily separate adolescent pre 606 00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:32,200 Speaker 1: adolescent skeletal remains from adult remains. It's going to be 607 00:39:32,239 --> 00:39:35,840 Speaker 1: really hard though, to narrow down age ranges. You know, 608 00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:38,319 Speaker 1: if you've only got certain elements, like if you've got, 609 00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:43,520 Speaker 1: for instance, and you know when we grow, for instance, 610 00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:47,239 Speaker 1: we have these epipacile plates that you know, where you 611 00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:49,560 Speaker 1: get the growing pains and that sort of thing where 612 00:39:49,560 --> 00:39:52,640 Speaker 1: it's not completely fused yet. That's one of the things 613 00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:55,480 Speaker 1: that we look for in children to see if their 614 00:39:55,480 --> 00:39:58,719 Speaker 1: bones are completely fused. If they've gone beyond that, then 615 00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:02,000 Speaker 1: we can hang a number on that. But that doesn't 616 00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:05,280 Speaker 1: necessarily mean that we can get them identified beyond putting 617 00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:09,040 Speaker 1: them specifically into an age group. There's no guarantee that 618 00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:12,640 Speaker 1: you can say, well, this person is this particular age, 619 00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:16,560 Speaker 1: and you can't certainly distill it down into anything more 620 00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:18,720 Speaker 1: fine than that to say it is this person. 621 00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:21,760 Speaker 2: You can't even do that with cremains. You got cremains. 622 00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:22,719 Speaker 2: You can't do any of that. 623 00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:26,319 Speaker 1: No, you know, the only thing that I was really 624 00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:32,160 Speaker 1: thinking about here, Dave, is that the thing about the teeth, 625 00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:36,040 Speaker 1: teeth are a great identifier. They're a grand identifier if 626 00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:38,440 Speaker 1: you do have a DNA database and you can harvest 627 00:40:38,560 --> 00:40:41,200 Speaker 1: out of the pulp if you can, and again that's 628 00:40:41,239 --> 00:40:43,160 Speaker 1: going to be a long shot because even the teeth 629 00:40:43,160 --> 00:40:47,000 Speaker 1: are exposed to a tremendous heat. A regular crematory, you know, 630 00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:50,160 Speaker 1: will we'll blast away fifteen hundred and sixteen hundred and 631 00:40:50,160 --> 00:40:54,480 Speaker 1: seventeen hundred degrees and depend upon size of the individual, 632 00:40:54,560 --> 00:40:58,040 Speaker 1: it takes some time to render them down. And this 633 00:40:58,120 --> 00:41:01,160 Speaker 1: isn't you know, we talked about this being an industrial scale. 634 00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:04,480 Speaker 1: So if they're and by the way, they have no 635 00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:08,440 Speaker 1: idea as to how many bodies there actually are. That's 636 00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:12,879 Speaker 1: what's so terrifying about this. You know, these investigators, if 637 00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:18,640 Speaker 1: they are so inclined, need to get their pencil and 638 00:41:18,719 --> 00:41:22,000 Speaker 1: paper out, go to those those ovens and write down 639 00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:25,520 Speaker 1: any serial numbers that are on there, When were they constructed, 640 00:41:25,600 --> 00:41:28,719 Speaker 1: when where they purchased? That might give you an indication 641 00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:32,120 Speaker 1: as to when all of it started, unless unless they 642 00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:35,960 Speaker 1: were handmade which you know is certainly a possibility. People 643 00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:38,640 Speaker 1: do fabulous you know, metal work and that sort of thing. 644 00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:42,200 Speaker 1: Is that something and where they automated to the point 645 00:41:42,239 --> 00:41:45,719 Speaker 1: where you had a movable belt in there, you know, 646 00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:49,440 Speaker 1: where it's drawing the remains, you know, through the oven 647 00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:52,399 Speaker 1: after they've been rendered down at that point in time. 648 00:41:52,440 --> 00:41:57,240 Speaker 1: There's so many things that they could do though investigatively, 649 00:41:57,360 --> 00:42:00,359 Speaker 1: to try to time frame this thing out. If you've 650 00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:06,880 Speaker 1: got people, if you've got people that have facilitated and 651 00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:10,800 Speaker 1: built this thing underground, Dave, that takes a special skill set. 652 00:42:11,120 --> 00:42:13,280 Speaker 1: You're not just going to go out on the street 653 00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:15,080 Speaker 1: and say, hey, can you dig a big hole from me? 654 00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:19,520 Speaker 1: If I'm going to build, you know, a multi flu 655 00:42:20,239 --> 00:42:26,040 Speaker 1: crematory subterranean, can you help me with them? You're looking 656 00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:30,040 Speaker 1: for somebody that would have that capability from ranging from 657 00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:38,560 Speaker 1: everything to plumbing to heating to metal work. It's it's 658 00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:40,520 Speaker 1: it's high end labor. You know. 659 00:42:40,560 --> 00:42:43,319 Speaker 2: When you look at this, Joe and I'm I hate 660 00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:45,440 Speaker 2: Dann to rept you here, but it just occouraged me. 661 00:42:45,560 --> 00:42:50,359 Speaker 2: One of the things that we learned from the group 662 00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:54,800 Speaker 2: the Warrior, the Halisco Search Warriors, is that the gang 663 00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:58,000 Speaker 2: the drug cartel. The gang would actually use phony employment 664 00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:03,000 Speaker 2: advertisements to lure men to a Guadalajara bus station. The 665 00:43:03,040 --> 00:43:05,560 Speaker 2: gang members would meet them there with the idea they're 666 00:43:05,560 --> 00:43:08,080 Speaker 2: going to get a job and take them to one 667 00:43:08,120 --> 00:43:11,120 Speaker 2: of the extermination camps. I say camps because I cannot 668 00:43:11,719 --> 00:43:13,880 Speaker 2: I can't imagine this being the only one, just the 669 00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:15,799 Speaker 2: only one they found so far that they're willing to 670 00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:19,840 Speaker 2: talk about. But if they were looking at doing something 671 00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:24,759 Speaker 2: and you just mentioned metalwork, plumbing, things like that, what 672 00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:27,799 Speaker 2: if they were advertising for that to lure these people in, 673 00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:30,720 Speaker 2: they have them do the job at gunpoint or whatever 674 00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:32,800 Speaker 2: and make them do that, and then they're the first 675 00:43:32,880 --> 00:43:36,279 Speaker 2: victims to go through the new crematorium that's been subterranean, 676 00:43:36,360 --> 00:43:39,319 Speaker 2: that has been created underground. Just a thought, because that 677 00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:40,279 Speaker 2: is no and we do. 678 00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:44,359 Speaker 1: No brand idea, because now you don't have the individuals 679 00:43:44,400 --> 00:43:49,000 Speaker 1: that initiated the construction of it to go out and 680 00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:53,360 Speaker 1: blab about it. You kill them and you liquidate them essentially, 681 00:43:53,920 --> 00:43:56,160 Speaker 1: and then if you need other maintenance done, then that's 682 00:43:56,200 --> 00:43:57,880 Speaker 1: just something that's going to be on you and your 683 00:43:58,400 --> 00:44:01,840 Speaker 1: posse that will get the knocked out, you know, over time, 684 00:44:02,680 --> 00:44:04,920 Speaker 1: and they would have to have test subjects for it, 685 00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:07,239 Speaker 1: you know, to see if it actually worked, which is 686 00:44:07,840 --> 00:44:10,279 Speaker 1: horrific in and of itself. The other thing that we're 687 00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:17,040 Speaker 1: kind of missing here is how are these how are 688 00:44:17,040 --> 00:44:21,360 Speaker 1: these folks being taken out? You know, if you go 689 00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:27,040 Speaker 1: back again to our example of the uh Nazi concentration camps, uh, 690 00:44:27,239 --> 00:44:30,040 Speaker 1: those things were done on mass scale. Well, I don't 691 00:44:30,080 --> 00:44:34,160 Speaker 1: think that we're approaching those numbers obviously, but you know, 692 00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:37,040 Speaker 1: you're in the tens of people here, maybe the hundreds 693 00:44:37,080 --> 00:44:41,040 Speaker 1: of people. You begin to think, well, you know, bullets 694 00:44:41,040 --> 00:44:48,120 Speaker 1: are cheap, right, and if it's a single shot to 695 00:44:48,160 --> 00:44:51,840 Speaker 1: the back of the head, that doesn't really you know, 696 00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:55,440 Speaker 1: cost a lot in order to you know, meeting your 697 00:44:55,480 --> 00:44:58,680 Speaker 1: bottom line. Are they killing them in other ways? Is 698 00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:02,640 Speaker 1: do they tour them to death? For instance? You know 699 00:45:02,840 --> 00:45:07,279 Speaker 1: these fatalities you know, occurring while they're in some kind 700 00:45:07,320 --> 00:45:09,400 Speaker 1: of dungeon that's been you know, where they're tied to 701 00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:11,719 Speaker 1: the wall and you've got evidence of blood letting that 702 00:45:11,800 --> 00:45:17,520 Speaker 1: has been going on in this environment. You know, this 703 00:45:17,520 --> 00:45:25,080 Speaker 1: this case, these cases in particular, they are as you 704 00:45:25,120 --> 00:45:28,520 Speaker 1: said from the top day, these are evidence rich environments 705 00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:37,160 Speaker 1: bathed in forensic science or elements where forensic science can 706 00:45:37,200 --> 00:45:41,040 Speaker 1: be applied and you can figure these things out, everything 707 00:45:41,120 --> 00:45:46,960 Speaker 1: from forensic engineering to dentistry, to pathology to archaeology, anthropology. 708 00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:54,280 Speaker 1: I know I'm missing some, but here here's the rub, 709 00:45:54,320 --> 00:46:00,920 Speaker 1: as they say, the rub is, yeah, your samples exist. 710 00:46:02,040 --> 00:46:08,320 Speaker 1: There's science to processes samples. But do the governmental authorities 711 00:46:09,440 --> 00:46:16,040 Speaker 1: possess the will to do it right? I'm Joseph Scott 712 00:46:16,080 --> 00:46:19,040 Speaker 1: Morgan and this is Bodybacks