Speaker 1: Episode to all about Public Service Loan Forgiveness with Nika Booth.
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Frugal Friends podcast, where you'll learn to
Speaker 1: save money, embrace simplicity rights, and liver with your life.
Speaker 1: Here your host Jen and Jill m m mmm. Welcome
Speaker 1: to the Frugal Friends podcast. My name is Jen, my
Speaker 1: name is Jill, And today we are really honing in
Speaker 1: and focusing on p s LF Public Service Loan Forgiveness
Speaker 1: because there is a deadline coming up on October one,
Speaker 1: and so many more people qualify for PSLF than have
Speaker 1: in the past that may even know about it. So
Speaker 1: if you even remotely think you might be able to
Speaker 1: benefit from this, or are on PSLF or there and
Speaker 1: there are payments that you don't think qualify, you've got
Speaker 1: to listen to this episode. If you have friends in
Speaker 1: public service, you've gotta listen. You've got to share. This
Speaker 1: breaks down a lot of myths, a lot of steps
Speaker 1: ways to get approved. It's just a really important episode
Speaker 1: on PSLF, and Nka knows all about it. She herself
Speaker 1: is working within that program and is in her own
Speaker 1: debt payoff journey, so we get to hear straight from her.
Speaker 1: An explanation on it the things that we need to
Speaker 1: be aware of. So if you're all confused by this
Speaker 1: but you think you might be eligible, let's do it.
Speaker 1: Let's talk about it. And if you're a teacher, hang
Speaker 1: out with us until like the very end end and
Speaker 1: end of the episode, because Naka shared more off the
Speaker 1: recording that will summarize for you absolutely. But first, this
Speaker 1: episode is brought to you by hearing your bill of
Speaker 1: the week. So we air every bill of the week
Speaker 1: we get, and that's a lot, and even the bill
Speaker 1: in our early days, remember this Jill that just went
Speaker 1: podis love that one. Because of that, it can take
Speaker 1: a little while to hear yours, sometimes six months. But
Speaker 1: if you don't want to wait, we now have a
Speaker 1: way for you to skip the line by throwing money
Speaker 1: at the problem. I mean taking us out to coffee.
Speaker 1: You don't even have to be there for the coffee.
Speaker 1: Actually probably won't be there for the coffee. But by
Speaker 1: joining our Patreon for five dollars a month, you get
Speaker 1: priority placement for your bill of the week, and not
Speaker 1: only that, you also get a bonus member episode every
Speaker 1: month where you ask us the questions like our first
Speaker 1: question that we got, what are Jill's favorite frugal smoothie recipes.
Speaker 1: Can't wait to talk about that one, and you'll get
Speaker 1: a free Frugal Friends bumper sticker. So if you love
Speaker 1: Frugal Friends podcast and you want extra perks from the show,
Speaker 1: then enjoy the fun at Frugal Friends podcast dot com,
Speaker 1: slash Patreon. It what a cool, fun, low cost way
Speaker 1: of getting more if you want more, absolutely and who
Speaker 1: doesn't always want more? Aside the fact from we're we're
Speaker 1: trying to teach you contentment and to reject the notion
Speaker 1: that more is better, but here more actually is better.
Speaker 1: So if you are not super familiar with PSLF, we're
Speaker 1: not going to go into the nuts and bolts of it.
Speaker 1: So we have a few other episodes that talk about that.
Speaker 1: We've got episode thirteen, which is how to Save on
Speaker 1: Student Loans, where we go into a lot of the
Speaker 1: student loan forgiveness, refinancing, paying off student loans, and then
Speaker 1: we have episode fifty with Travis Hornsby, and that's about
Speaker 1: That's the full breadth of public Service loan forgiveness as
Speaker 1: it has been for the last several years. Um. In
Speaker 1: the last year and a half, there have been some
Speaker 1: waivers that have updated it, and that is what we're
Speaker 1: diving into in this episode. So definitely episode thirteen and
Speaker 1: fifty those are good to to listen to after this
Speaker 1: if you want more comprehensive knowledge. But with Nika, we're
Speaker 1: talking about the really pertinent updates that expire October thirty first.
Speaker 1: And there is literally no better person to talk about
Speaker 1: than than Nika Booth. She is an award winning debt expert,
Speaker 1: personal finance content creator. She's fire on Instagram, and she's
Speaker 1: a founder of Debt Free Going to Be. You can
Speaker 1: find her on Instagram at debt Free Going to Be.
Speaker 1: So she is currently paying off her student loans. She
Speaker 1: has already paid off eighty thousand dollars of credit card
Speaker 1: and UM tax debt and now she is working on
Speaker 1: getting her student loans forgiven because she has worked um
Speaker 1: for the federal government for twelve years. So she's already
Speaker 1: worked so hard to pay off so much debt as
Speaker 1: a single woman, and now she's helping others to get
Speaker 1: as much loan forgiveness as possible. And through her great research,
Speaker 1: we hope you will benefit. Nika's awesome Let's learn more
Speaker 1: from her. Nika Welcome back to the frugal friends. Let's up.
Speaker 1: Thank you for having me. We are so thrilled to
Speaker 1: be chatting with you. You brought so much to the
Speaker 1: table and to our listeners last time, so we couldn't
Speaker 1: not have you back again, especially to talk about such
Speaker 1: an important topic that can be so confusing and convoluted
Speaker 1: for so many And I think you can break down
Speaker 1: these concepts in a really relatable way. So excited to
Speaker 1: get into it, Let's do it. So let's start. Let's
Speaker 1: start there with the complicated complex part of it. Can
Speaker 1: you speak to this, like, in your estimation, how complex
Speaker 1: is student loan debt as far as terms costs, rates,
Speaker 1: program rules, current status is? Like? How complex? Would you say?
Speaker 1: Student loan debt is extremely? Like it's absolutely ridiculous. UM.
Speaker 1: I was in a coaching session with one of my
Speaker 1: clients not long ago, UM who is pursuing the borrower
Speaker 1: defensive repayment program for defarted students. UM who's been misrepresentative,
Speaker 1: misrepresented UM by their colleges and universities. And there are
Speaker 1: fourteen different repayment plans. Fourteen that's a lot. That's just
Speaker 1: with repayment plans exactly. UM, So I understand just with
Speaker 1: that alone, why there's so much confusion um around student
Speaker 1: loans and around the updates and the announcements that continue
Speaker 1: to come out seemingly every week or every month about
Speaker 1: student loans, and why people are so computed and it's
Speaker 1: hard to tell, Well, do I need to pay attention
Speaker 1: to the to this, does this call up you know?
Speaker 1: Does this apply to me? Does this not apply to me?
Speaker 1: Or does it apply to someone that I know? You know? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean there are new things coming up every year,
Speaker 1: and I think with the pandemic, it just it kind
Speaker 1: of really messed I feel like it messed things up.
Speaker 1: And I've been so out of writing about student loans
Speaker 1: for such a long time that I feel like I
Speaker 1: know nothing now. So what are what are the updates
Speaker 1: to specifically? So specifically we want to talk about Public
Speaker 1: Service Loan forgiveness because that's the one with the has
Speaker 1: like a pending deadline. UM, So what are the updates
Speaker 1: to PSLF that people should be aware of right now? Um?
Speaker 1: And how do people know if those updates affect them? Absolutely? So,
Speaker 1: the updates related to PSLF are outlined in what's called
Speaker 1: a PSLF limited waiver. So last year in October, the
Speaker 1: Department of Education announced this once in a lifetime limited
Speaker 1: opportunity to basically help propel or push people towards PSLF
Speaker 1: like actually getting their loans forgiven. And this is because
Speaker 1: in previous years, like the approval rate which just absolutely ridiculous,
Speaker 1: it was anywhere between one and two of people who
Speaker 1: actually qualified for PSLF being denied. So the department is
Speaker 1: removing the red tape. They're offering these kind of like
Speaker 1: retroactive credits towards the payment requirement for PSL left. So
Speaker 1: they are allowing prior periods of repayment, whether you made
Speaker 1: a payment or not, whether and so what that means
Speaker 1: if your payment was zero, including during the pandemic, right
Speaker 1: not making a payment counts toward the payment require and
Speaker 1: it's for PSLF. They're also allowing you to get credit
Speaker 1: if you made a lump some payment, a partial payment
Speaker 1: for the payment was even late. So under the regular
Speaker 1: rules of PSLF, you have to make a payment, you
Speaker 1: have to make your minimum monthly payment within fifteen days
Speaker 1: of your due date. Anytime you fall out of those
Speaker 1: fifteen days, even though you make that payment and you
Speaker 1: satisfy the minimum payment that's due it doesn't qualify for PSLF,
Speaker 1: which is just completely ridiculous. Um. And so they're allowing
Speaker 1: late payments so to speak, to apply towards the payment count.
Speaker 1: In addition to that, they're also allowing periods of forbearance,
Speaker 1: which is a game changer. And this wasn't originally included
Speaker 1: in the PSLF waiver. This was something that came out
Speaker 1: later actually, I think it came out this year. Um.
Speaker 1: But they are allowing a minimum of twelve months in
Speaker 1: forbearance to count towards the payment requirement. In addition up
Speaker 1: to three months, so I mean, I'm sorry, no more
Speaker 1: than thirty six months. So it's a twelve minute, twelve
Speaker 1: month minimum, no more than three year maximum, Okay. In
Speaker 1: addition to that, they're also allowing periods of deferment, any
Speaker 1: deferment military deferment, but not in school deferment to also
Speaker 1: count towards the payment requirement for PSLF. Wow, it sounds
Speaker 1: like that's big. It's huge, absolutely absolutely. And there's one
Speaker 1: more thing. Let's say you let's say you're still working
Speaker 1: or you're no longer working in public service, but you
Speaker 1: had years in public service you were denied for PSLF.
Speaker 1: They're re reviewing and almost automatically giving people forget this
Speaker 1: for their time spent, even if you can, even if
Speaker 1: you made payment that qualify for PSLF but consolidated, they're
Speaker 1: also allowing you to get payment credit for at And
Speaker 1: it's crazy because shortly after that announcement was made in
Speaker 1: October of last year, I had a coworker who said,
Speaker 1: all right, I'm gonna put my payment in. He had
Speaker 1: been in federal service for over ten years. This man
Speaker 1: receiving checks from the Department of Treasury, just money back
Speaker 1: as a refund for over payment with you know, because
Speaker 1: he met the employer. The employer, you know, qualification. That's
Speaker 1: the one thing that hasn't changed the waiver though you
Speaker 1: still have to have employment um for a public service
Speaker 1: organization under PSLFT. Yeah, and and the ten year mark
Speaker 1: is still and it's yeah, it's still absolutely yeah. It
Speaker 1: has to be one payments, but they don't have to
Speaker 1: be consecutive payment, so it could be more than ten
Speaker 1: years for people. So if somebody has left one of these,
Speaker 1: they they find out, oh, previous employment is applicable, then
Speaker 1: how do they go about getting that? The rified or
Speaker 1: what if the what if the nonprofit or even our
Speaker 1: friend worked at a charter school that no longer longer
Speaker 1: exists anymore, Like, is there a way for them to
Speaker 1: get credit for that? Yeah, And that's the tricky part um.
Speaker 1: So I haven't had that experience or dealt with anyone
Speaker 1: who couldn't get a signature. But what I have seen
Speaker 1: in my research is that you can actually certify your
Speaker 1: own employment, and they just think yes, so and so
Speaker 1: you would do the same thing. So you would utilize
Speaker 1: the form it's called like the public it's called PSLF
Speaker 1: or Temporary Expanded PSLF. UH. It's the same application or
Speaker 1: the form that you would use to certify your employment.
Speaker 1: So you would just follow the steps along the application.
Speaker 1: You would you know, uh, input your own personal information
Speaker 1: and then your dates of employment, and then you would
Speaker 1: actually sign it both as the borrower and the person
Speaker 1: who certify. Now, I'm not saying that everyone should be
Speaker 1: going out here to certify, you know, being their own
Speaker 1: qualifying employer on their certification form. But if you find
Speaker 1: that you can't find a coworker or anyone in your
Speaker 1: organization to sign, you can sign if you're the say,
Speaker 1: only person who is available to actually certify your employment.
Speaker 1: But be prepared because the Department of Education will ask
Speaker 1: for additional information or documentation to help verify that this
Speaker 1: was something that took place. Yeah, surely. And if you
Speaker 1: have like a tax return with that officer too, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's fantastic. Yeah, that's fantastic to know. And so when
Speaker 1: are the deadlines for people to fulfill these Um, this
Speaker 1: new updates yesterday, It's it's October thirty one. It's October
Speaker 1: thirty one, And I just want people to kind of,
Speaker 1: you know, maintain their expectations or manage their expectations because
Speaker 1: there is a lot that is taking place within the
Speaker 1: Department of Education. They are still moving borrowers from fed Loan,
Speaker 1: who was once was the only servicer for PSLF, who
Speaker 1: is now they are now moving borrowers to Mohela. The
Speaker 1: last little bit, because I'm in that group, you know,
Speaker 1: there's a lot going on, and there are other changes
Speaker 1: outside of PSLF that are taking place. So when you
Speaker 1: submit your paperwork before October thirty one, UM, it's going
Speaker 1: to take some time for you to receive that initial
Speaker 1: letter that says that they've received your information, and even
Speaker 1: more time before you actually get the next letter that
Speaker 1: talks about Um, these are your payment counts to date,
Speaker 1: you know, in reminding you to make sure you certify
Speaker 1: your employment on a yearly basis so that they can
Speaker 1: keep counting your payments towards PSLFT. Wow, that's great. What
Speaker 1: have you seen, Nika regarding some of the most common
Speaker 1: reasons that people would get rejected for PSLF. Yeah, first
Speaker 1: and foremost is not actually working for a qualifying employer.
Speaker 1: So for example, UM, you would think people in public
Speaker 1: service roles such as doctors or nurses or even law
Speaker 1: enforcement would automatically qualify for Public Service Loan forgiveness because
Speaker 1: they're in public service. But it's not the role that
Speaker 1: qualifies you, it's the organization that qualifies you. So it's
Speaker 1: possible to be working in public service but be working
Speaker 1: for a for profit organization, which wouldn't qualify for PSLF. So, unfortunately,
Speaker 1: I've seen people not utilize the PSLF help tool on
Speaker 1: stud a dot gov or the the new employer search
Speaker 1: tool that they have or you can actually search. They've
Speaker 1: like expanded this database and it's it's way better than
Speaker 1: what it was in years prior. People aren't using that
Speaker 1: to help them determine whether or not they qualify for uh,
Speaker 1: their employer qualifies from PSLF, and they're not asking their employee, hey,
Speaker 1: what's our tax status? You know, does the I R
Speaker 1: S consider us to be a not for profit organization? Um?
Speaker 1: And so that's the number one thing. So people have
Speaker 1: been submitting applications assuming they qualify, and then they don't
Speaker 1: and they're getting that rejection letter. The other common eason
Speaker 1: that I've seen. I've seen a lot of people be
Speaker 1: so upset about this and it's trivial. But I also
Speaker 1: understand when you are signing your four there are two
Speaker 1: places to sign. The person who is certifying your employment,
Speaker 1: which is usually someone who works at your organization, and
Speaker 1: then you the bar work have to sign well. As
Speaker 1: as Jen said, COVID kind of change things right. So
Speaker 1: a lot of people are remote. There's no going into
Speaker 1: an office for a lot of people. But the signatures
Speaker 1: have to be wet signatures, so they have to be
Speaker 1: actually drawn on. It cannot be tight you know that.
Speaker 1: You know, you can find these fonts that kind of
Speaker 1: look like their signatures. You can't string your name together
Speaker 1: with that font and assume that it's going to be okay. Um,
Speaker 1: And it can't be like a digital stamp or like
Speaker 1: a signature certificate. Like a lot of people who work
Speaker 1: in public service also like work in these organizations where
Speaker 1: they have digital signatures built into the to their daily
Speaker 1: work that they do. That is a no go. Uh
Speaker 1: you will get rejected. And actually I was one who
Speaker 1: got rejected when I first submitted. When I submitted right
Speaker 1: after the waiver was announced because I worked for the
Speaker 1: federal government. We use digital signatures all the time and
Speaker 1: that they're considered legit. Right, Um, you get to type
Speaker 1: in this code and everything in order to apply your
Speaker 1: digital signature, and the privat of education was like absolutely not.
Speaker 1: So make sure the signature is wet either actually drawn on.
Speaker 1: You know these days you can take a picture with
Speaker 1: your camera phone up up you know, to to scan
Speaker 1: so to speak. Or it can be a drawn on. Um,
Speaker 1: it can be the signature can be on a piece
Speaker 1: of paper that's been uploaded and then placed in the
Speaker 1: signature place. But it just cannot be any type of
Speaker 1: stant or typed signature. So bizarre. Yeah, that and that
Speaker 1: is something I would have never thought about, Like, of course, yes,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna check my organization make sure it's got the
Speaker 1: right time status I would never think that you could
Speaker 1: not use a digital signature, would not specially this this year,
Speaker 1: what has transpired and where we are with technology. But
Speaker 1: that's super helpful. I could see that being a barrier
Speaker 1: for people and just all of these things to check
Speaker 1: off and know and research. And you're certainly breaking it
Speaker 1: down and helping us understand it more. But like, would
Speaker 1: you say, it's worth it, Nika, to kind of understand this,
Speaker 1: to do the thing, to be calling getting wet signatures
Speaker 1: with the potential of rejection, is it worth it? It's
Speaker 1: worth it. It's worth it more now than it was before.
Speaker 1: Like I said that, the approval rate was absolutely grim.
Speaker 1: This you know, politics aside. You know, every administration has
Speaker 1: its thing, but this administration has the right people in
Speaker 1: place to help get borrowers out of student loaned at
Speaker 1: one way or another. And what we noted up until
Speaker 1: this point, they're really using existing programs, existing legislature to
Speaker 1: try to push people closer to forgiveness. So I definitely
Speaker 1: think it's worth it. Listen, I actually stopped certifying my
Speaker 1: employment because of how grim their approval rates were. I've
Speaker 1: been in public service for twelve years now and I
Speaker 1: am probably a year or less away from having my
Speaker 1: loans forgiven because of this waiver. It's absolutely worth it,
Speaker 1: worth it even if you don't. Even if you submit
Speaker 1: your application and you won't have one D and twenty
Speaker 1: qualifying payments, that's fine. If you're still in public service
Speaker 1: and you don't see yourself leaving, take it, then leaving
Speaker 1: at least anytime soon. Take advantage of this waiver. This
Speaker 1: waiver has the potential. I mean, it's changing lives. It
Speaker 1: already has changed lives. So I absolutely think it's worth
Speaker 1: pursuing this. This might be a silly question or already
Speaker 1: embedded in what you've said. I don't know much about
Speaker 1: PSLF store, but if I were a person in year
Speaker 1: six seven, eight nine of working in public service, are
Speaker 1: you saying I could go if I had not done
Speaker 1: any of the paperwork up till that point. Could I
Speaker 1: go back and verify my employment and do all the
Speaker 1: paper work now and have the previous six seven, eight
Speaker 1: nine years count towards the ten requirement? Sure? And the
Speaker 1: one thing I do want to just point out though,
Speaker 1: is that in my case, I've had the same employer,
Speaker 1: so certifying has been easy. I can certify, you know,
Speaker 1: those twelve years for one employer. But if you've had
Speaker 1: multiple qualifying employers through whatever time that you've been in
Speaker 1: public service, you do need a form for each of
Speaker 1: those employers. Okay, that would be the only kind a
Speaker 1: wet signature. So you're gonna need to find a facts
Speaker 1: machine and sure, yeah, I mean, well here's the cool thing.
Speaker 1: They even have online facts machines now, So they do.
Speaker 1: I mean they do, like technology is in saying these days,
Speaker 1: you know, so there's a lot that you can still
Speaker 1: do without having to physically leave your home, which I couldn't.
Speaker 1: I mean, talk about a barrier if you actually have
Speaker 1: to leave your home to get somebody to sign a
Speaker 1: form and then go to Keikos or something to fact. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't want my home anymore for what I do.
Speaker 1: Whenever I need to fact the I r S something
Speaker 1: I do go Staples just because I don't. I don't
Speaker 1: trust anything when it comes to the IR facts, the
Speaker 1: I r S things. Oh, you have to you either
Speaker 1: mail it or facts to the I r S. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't trust the mail. Even with the I r S.
Speaker 1: It's the I r S I don't trust anyways. Okay,
Speaker 1: So let's let's recap the updates that people should be
Speaker 1: aware of. So it's the twelve to thirty six months
Speaker 1: of forbearance. You got minimum twelve months of forbear commultated
Speaker 1: thirty six months. Okay, deferment is that? Does that have
Speaker 1: a minimum maximum? Nope? Okay, it's the same. Excuse me,
Speaker 1: it's the same in max as the forbearance, except for
Speaker 1: in school deferment. In school deferment does not apply. So
Speaker 1: that is, if you are let's say you're you have
Speaker 1: loans already and you're pursuing a graduate degree and your
Speaker 1: loans are in deferment because you're enrolled in school at
Speaker 1: least have time. That period of time does not count. Okay, uh.
Speaker 1: Late payments and are people able to see which payments
Speaker 1: are late in their loan service or website. So that's
Speaker 1: the tricky part about Okay, all right, and don't don't
Speaker 1: forget where you are so that we can come back
Speaker 1: to to the updates. So for people who have had
Speaker 1: fed loan or mohela, it will be easier to keep
Speaker 1: track of your PSLFT progress and those dashboards they actually
Speaker 1: break down your loan details like most services like Also
Speaker 1: there's do. But you can also see which payments are qualifying,
Speaker 1: which payments are eligible, and we can talk about the
Speaker 1: difference between the two UM. And then what you know
Speaker 1: when you were in these things like so when you
Speaker 1: were in forbearance or when you were in deferment, and
Speaker 1: you can see the type of forbearance and deferment you
Speaker 1: you were in, and so you can keep track of UM.
Speaker 1: They've got these progress bars UM that you can see
Speaker 1: like you can like a great snapshot to be able
Speaker 1: to see, Okay, out of one hundred and twenty payments,
Speaker 1: I have one hundred or whatever the case may be. Unfortunately,
Speaker 1: it's different when those when fed loan or mohila are
Speaker 1: not your loan service or you're basically waiting on a
Speaker 1: letter m HM. So like I had Naviyant, So Navant
Speaker 1: would have to send me a letter and tell me
Speaker 1: which payments are late. Your letter would not come from Navant.
Speaker 1: Your letter would come from Public Service Loan for the
Speaker 1: PSLF owner administrator. So in this case it would be Mohela.
Speaker 1: Now that's who would get that infant who would give
Speaker 1: you that information. So it's even more important to do
Speaker 1: this as soon as possible because you're going to need
Speaker 1: a letter to absolutely absolutely Now to go back and
Speaker 1: answer your question, now you may actually should you will
Speaker 1: be able to see if you pay a payment late,
Speaker 1: but I don't think if they would capture as PSLF
Speaker 1: late payment, it would just be your general you know,
Speaker 1: your general payment. But hopefully everyone was on FED loan
Speaker 1: anyways because that was the only service or that was
Speaker 1: the only service, okay, But but not everyone was. Unfortunately
Speaker 1: they were waiting. They were waiting, and then some of
Speaker 1: the people are still waiting because not everyone under PSLF
Speaker 1: went to Mohela unfortunately. Yeah. So ideally, best case scenario world,
Speaker 1: you were on FED loan, and FED loan should tell
Speaker 1: you if a payment is you said, eligible or or
Speaker 1: qualified Okay, Like Jill, we were already talking about how confusing,
Speaker 1: so like and now they're right, it's complex, and so
Speaker 1: now they've got these different terms even within the Public
Speaker 1: Service Loan Forgiveness program. So a qualifying payment is a
Speaker 1: payment that has been counted towards your uh ON payment requirement.
Speaker 1: An eligible payment is a payment that can become qualifying
Speaker 1: like it meets all these other criteria, it was on
Speaker 1: time or under the under the waiver, it doesn't matter
Speaker 1: if it was on time or not. And I think
Speaker 1: I forgot something else, honestly, but I'll come back to that.
Speaker 1: But what the eligible payment is missing is your qualifying
Speaker 1: employer certification. Well under that web signature. So under under
Speaker 1: pslf UM, you know you have to make these qualifying
Speaker 1: payments UM, but you also have to uh yearly re
Speaker 1: certify your employment to ensure that you are still working
Speaker 1: for a qualified employer in order for those payments to count.
Speaker 1: So oftentimes what borrow walls you will see is that
Speaker 1: they've got a qualifying payment account of one thing, but
Speaker 1: an eligible payment account of another. And if they're just
Speaker 1: waiting to get updated employer information to be able to
Speaker 1: capt make those ineligible payments qualifying. All right, So we're
Speaker 1: looking for the word qualified. We're looking for the word qualify. Now,
Speaker 1: if you have a debt, if you're if you have
Speaker 1: mohela and within your dashboard you see eligible payments and
Speaker 1: they're waiting for your employeer certification and you have not
Speaker 1: submitted this form submitted yesterday yesterday. Can I go back
Speaker 1: to the other thing that I forgot under the waiver? Yeah,
Speaker 1: And this is key to because this is something that
Speaker 1: I get to I was able to benefit from. So
Speaker 1: under the regular rules of PSLF, you have to be
Speaker 1: in specific a specific repayment plan. You have to be
Speaker 1: in an income driven repayment plan and let and if
Speaker 1: you're not, then again that payment also does not count
Speaker 1: towards PSLF. Under the waiver, you can be under any
Speaker 1: repayment plane. So when I was talking about how yeah, exactly,
Speaker 1: So when I was talking about me not certifying my
Speaker 1: employment for years because of the repruival rate, I essentially
Speaker 1: kind of dropped out of PSLF because the repayment plans
Speaker 1: they that I needed to be in for PSLF, I
Speaker 1: couldn't afford them. So I had to go to the
Speaker 1: repayment plan that I could afford, because if if I
Speaker 1: had to stick with their repayment their repayment plan, my
Speaker 1: payment was a thousand plus dollars a month. I couldn't
Speaker 1: afford that at the time, the crazy come driven repayment
Speaker 1: you think it would be the most affordable exactly, Wow,
Speaker 1: And I'm sure you are not the only one that
Speaker 1: had that could not afford to do PSL. O. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: that's insane. Never thought about that. Yeah, that's what I mean,
Speaker 1: that's helpful. So take the opportunity. Like I've been talking
Speaker 1: about this, You've seen it. I've been talking about this
Speaker 1: at nauseum. Take the opportunity. Get your certification form in
Speaker 1: by October thirty one. You just never know you at
Speaker 1: least take I mean, this is basically free, you know.
Speaker 1: I don't not want to say it's free money or
Speaker 1: you know, free credit, but essentially it is, especially if
Speaker 1: you weren't making a payment at all. Yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: not without costing you something. You're working in public service
Speaker 1: for ten years making payments, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's crazy.
Speaker 1: So okay, so we've got the late payments. Now we
Speaker 1: know even if you weren't in I d R you
Speaker 1: can still get that. And even if you had it
Speaker 1: certified employment before, you can now back certify absolutely any
Speaker 1: other that we've forgotten. The recap. H M. I think
Speaker 1: I think that's majority of Okay, yeah, I think that's
Speaker 1: I think that's the majority of it. But that's very comprehensive.
Speaker 1: I think that's enough to say there's enough changes to
Speaker 1: it that makes it worth it to at least try
Speaker 1: to at least try. And the approval rating has gone
Speaker 1: up so drastically that it is worth trying. It is,
Speaker 1: and so this is definitely one like, even if you
Speaker 1: don't have federal student loans, right now, go share this
Speaker 1: with somebody who might share this on your Facebook, share
Speaker 1: this everywhere, like save a life, because it is truly
Speaker 1: life changing. You know, we we've talked about student loans
Speaker 1: before and you know you've done you've done research. You know,
Speaker 1: student loans are suffocating, their crippling they have there are
Speaker 1: people who haven't been able to do things like start
Speaker 1: a family, by a home. We're it's hire even, um,
Speaker 1: So you know this has an opportunity, as well as
Speaker 1: the other changes that are coming to student loans, to
Speaker 1: have the opportunity to really really give people that that
Speaker 1: leg up that they need to be able to do
Speaker 1: regular human things. Yeah, absolutely all right. So I have
Speaker 1: one more question for you, um, and it's about the
Speaker 1: new Student Loan Forgiveness Plan. How is that interact with PSLF. Well,
Speaker 1: it kind of it does, and it doesn't like their
Speaker 1: independent programs, right, So if you qualify for both, you
Speaker 1: get both. One's gonna happen sooner than the other for
Speaker 1: a lot of people. So the ten to twenty dollar
Speaker 1: forgiveness that was announced in August will probably happen, you know,
Speaker 1: within the next few months before any PSL left forgiveness.
Speaker 1: You know, it takes place, especially as the Department of
Speaker 1: Education rushes to roll out that forgiveness plus close the
Speaker 1: deadline for the waiver and all then roll out all
Speaker 1: the other changes. And that don't forget, payments are resuming
Speaker 1: January one, so the payment pause and the interest waiver
Speaker 1: expirer on decaset and we know they're resuming January first.
Speaker 1: There's no ambiguity this time, no and no ambiguity whatsoever.
Speaker 1: So they are definitely resuming in January. Um So there's
Speaker 1: gonna be a lot there's gonna be a lot of
Speaker 1: movement taking place. Um So the forgiveness, the tow K
Speaker 1: will probably happen first. So it just means that if
Speaker 1: you know, if you do pursue PSLF and you get
Speaker 1: public service loan forgiveness, you just may have ten toys
Speaker 1: less of outstanding balance that needs to be forgiven. That's
Speaker 1: the only that's the only thing they are truly independent
Speaker 1: of one another. And this loan forgiveness. Correct me if
Speaker 1: I'm wrong? Is uh? Still like taxes are forgiven as well,
Speaker 1: just like PSLF, yes and no. So on a federal standpoint,
Speaker 1: you will not be taxed, so the I R S
Speaker 1: will not be coming for your loan forgiveness. They will
Speaker 1: not be considering this UH loan forgiveness as taxable income. However,
Speaker 1: there are some states. There are some states that will
Speaker 1: tax student low forgiveness, any student loan forgiveness, any so
Speaker 1: PSLF and the student loan. Yeah, and I don't have
Speaker 1: I don't have that data here. I do have some
Speaker 1: some resources on my on my Instagram page, but I
Speaker 1: don't have those resources right here where I can actually
Speaker 1: say who will and who won't. But I will say
Speaker 1: that there have been state at least I know we're
Speaker 1: talking about PSL left, but at least with the other
Speaker 1: student loan forgiveness plan, they have come out and said
Speaker 1: that they've changed their tax law and they won't be
Speaker 1: um imposing a state income tax. So that's good. So
Speaker 1: hopefully more states, you know, kind of follow suit. So,
Speaker 1: but this isn't one where you would avoid the ten
Speaker 1: to twenty forgiveness in order to prefer the PSLF. I
Speaker 1: think the most UH. I think at the time, Hawaii
Speaker 1: was probably the state that was going to have the
Speaker 1: most in tax liability at like a thousand dollars, again
Speaker 1: a thousand dollars in comparison, and then they've announced that
Speaker 1: they're not going to tax. So there's that. So just
Speaker 1: take advantage of all of advantage. Absolutely, And is there
Speaker 1: a deadline? There is a deadline for the new student
Speaker 1: loan Forgiveness plan, correct, there is, So there's a couple
Speaker 1: one's kind of arbitrary, but the application should be available
Speaker 1: in October. It'll probably be available on the student a
Speaker 1: Dot of website. UM, so definitely, you know, keep your
Speaker 1: eye off for that. UM. The deadline to apply for
Speaker 1: that forgiveness if you have to apply, actually isn't until
Speaker 1: UM December thirty one, okay forgiveness. The Department of Education
Speaker 1: is saying forgiveness takes about four to six weeks for
Speaker 1: it to be reflected in on a borrower's account. So
Speaker 1: if you want the forgiveness before the end of the year,
Speaker 1: you should apply by November fifteen, So application comes out
Speaker 1: in October, apply by November fift if you have if
Speaker 1: you have to apply by November fift to see it
Speaker 1: before the end of the year. And then the regular
Speaker 1: you know deadline for is December, okay, but if you
Speaker 1: don't need it by the end of the year, then really,
Speaker 1: any time, any time in next year, okay, fantastic, And
Speaker 1: any wet signature is needed for that oneure for that one,
Speaker 1: great to hear. You know what else doesn't need a
Speaker 1: wet signature. And we'll take this year, next year, in
Speaker 1: the following year, and beyond digital any time. I don't
Speaker 1: care what form the week, that's right, it's time for
Speaker 1: the best minute of your entire week. Maybe a baby
Speaker 1: was born and his name is William. Maybe you've paid
Speaker 1: off your mortgage, maybe your car died and you're happy
Speaker 1: to not have to pay that bill anymore. That's bills,
Speaker 1: Buffalo bills, Bill Clinton. This is the bill of the week, Nika.
Speaker 1: Every week we invite our listeners are guests to share
Speaker 1: with us their bill of the week, and we would
Speaker 1: love to hear yours. Oh okay, cool. So my bill
Speaker 1: of the week is a medical bill. So earlier this year,
Speaker 1: so I have a help savings plan, help stavings account,
Speaker 1: so earlier this year. I actually had to go to
Speaker 1: the er because I was having like some serious heart palpitations,
Speaker 1: Like I was like, am I in't here? Having a
Speaker 1: heart attack. Who I need to go to the hospital.
Speaker 1: It's crazy anyway, seeing all that to say, my h
Speaker 1: s A wasn't funded and I had met my deductible
Speaker 1: for the year yet so all of a sudden after
Speaker 1: like I've got a flood of bills from the hospital,
Speaker 1: from the cardiologist to the residents that met me in
Speaker 1: the e er like anyway, your hand and I mean sincerely, right, seriously,
Speaker 1: So I finally pay eat that bill off. I mean
Speaker 1: it was thousands of dollars. I finally paid that bill off.
Speaker 1: So that is my bill of the weekend. I will
Speaker 1: say that I am feeling much better and my heart
Speaker 1: is under control. This PSLF stuff and the student loan
Speaker 1: stuff probably isn't doing anything stress. After October thirty one,
Speaker 1: I think you'll feel a lot better. Absolutely, in the
Speaker 1: midst of all this other debt. Having paid off this
Speaker 1: medical bill is such an accomplishment. While don Nica, thank
Speaker 1: you so much and I'm so glad to hear that
Speaker 1: you're feeling better. That's so scary. It was stress, stress
Speaker 1: and caffeine. They were like, nope, you gotta cut them
Speaker 1: both out. My no to not to cutting out caffeine. Yes,
Speaker 1: to cutting out. That is a recommendation I can take
Speaker 1: from the doctor. I guess if you don't have any stress,
Speaker 1: maybe you don't need caffeine as much. I'm sorry, I've
Speaker 1: cut down on my stress because I also I get
Speaker 1: seizures when I'm stressed, and I've cut down on my stress.
Speaker 1: But I see the coffee in the mound in the air. Listen.
Speaker 1: As soon as we're done, I'm gonna go make me
Speaker 1: a nice cup of beak coffee. Trick yourself. Oh, if
Speaker 1: you are listening, have a bill that you want to submit.
Speaker 1: If it's about paying off medical bills, not paying medical bills,
Speaker 1: whatever it is, visit Friends podcast dot com slash bill,
Speaker 1: leave us your bill, And now it's time for the
Speaker 1: lightning round round, all right in today's vulnerability segment. I
Speaker 1: don't know why vulnerability and lightning go together, but we
Speaker 1: we asked that question every week and we never change it.
Speaker 1: So what's I love it? There we go, alright, so
Speaker 1: today we're gonna talk about biggest struggle in paying back
Speaker 1: student loans, biggest struggle, and Nico, we will we will
Speaker 1: let you go first as our guest and as the
Speaker 1: person who's most who's closest to this because you will
Speaker 1: have the best insight. Mm hmm, you ready, i'm's already.
Speaker 1: It's the interest. The interest is the biggest struggle. I
Speaker 1: shared on Instagram not long ago a post it note
Speaker 1: about how much interest my student loans accrue every single day.
Speaker 1: And when I tell you this number, you're gonna be like, what, Okay,
Speaker 1: you ready? Twenty And I think, like fourteen cents every
Speaker 1: single day? Down. That's not even the part that hurts
Speaker 1: the most. The part that hurts the most is my
Speaker 1: minimum monthly payment doesn't cover the interests that accrues, so
Speaker 1: there's always outstanding interests that then capitalizes and for anyone
Speaker 1: who doesn't know, capitalized means it's added back on and
Speaker 1: added onto the principal loan balance, and then it continues
Speaker 1: to recruit interests day after day after day, so that
Speaker 1: daily number goes up. That daily number essentially goes up. Yep,
Speaker 1: this is so exploitive. I can't. This is why I
Speaker 1: had that before. When I was when I was just
Speaker 1: paying the minimum before we got married, so I could
Speaker 1: pay for the wedding, and then we then we focus
Speaker 1: on paying off the student loans. I was paying the
Speaker 1: minimum it did not cover the interest. Gosh, I think
Speaker 1: the I think the minimum payment because I was making
Speaker 1: so little, was like thirty four dollars a month. That's
Speaker 1: what I was like, that's maybe a week of interest. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they do that um intentionally. That's not an accident because
Speaker 1: no other financial product will let you do that. Correct.
Speaker 1: This is the only financial product, financial loan product where
Speaker 1: this occurs. Now, I will say kudos again to the
Speaker 1: changes that are coming to student loans. Part of the
Speaker 1: new rule that's going to be implemented in July of
Speaker 1: next year is actually going to limit interest capitalization events.
Speaker 1: So if you come in and out of forbearance, that's
Speaker 1: typically when your interest is capitalized or uh, once you
Speaker 1: come out of school, They're going to minimize that I'm out.
Speaker 1: So that is also going to be another game changer
Speaker 1: that's going to help people tackle their student loan principle
Speaker 1: faster and more effectively than being you know, basically covered
Speaker 1: and suffocating in all of this interest where your payment
Speaker 1: only knocks off a dollar or some change and some
Speaker 1: change off of your prince every time you make a patent. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and unfortunately that's thanks to the exploitative practices of former
Speaker 1: loan servicers that would encourage people to go into forbearance
Speaker 1: and deferment to increase the life life cycle of that
Speaker 1: person's debt. And it's like keeping them as a customer
Speaker 1: since they were very much profit over people. Absolutely, yeah,
Speaker 1: so but thankfully it's it's changing so future borrowers don't
Speaker 1: have to go through that. But yeah, it was very
Speaker 1: exploitative and it's things where you're like, of course I
Speaker 1: won't take out a payday loan. I know that that's
Speaker 1: bad financial choice, while the same practices are being like
Speaker 1: taken out on are like normal young people. So yeah,
Speaker 1: really looking forward to change in the student loan space
Speaker 1: for sure. Yeah yeah, and thanks for letting us know
Speaker 1: what's available to us in the mid stuff this overwhelmed
Speaker 1: and how injustice it's so angering. Yeah, okay, you go.
Speaker 1: My biggest struggle was patience, like my own self being
Speaker 1: patient in the process. I felt once I felt the
Speaker 1: weight of it and was making efforts to pay it back,
Speaker 1: I felt the weight of it and I just wanted
Speaker 1: it gone. I think many people can can relate to that,
Speaker 1: and even hearing Uniqua share about the interest, it just
Speaker 1: it it's so heavy and oppressive and debilitating, and I
Speaker 1: think just the even though I was taking steps towards
Speaker 1: paying it off, I just I couldn't get it off
Speaker 1: of me fast enough. It really truly felt like a burden.
Speaker 1: And being patient in the process and patient with myself
Speaker 1: to say it's okay that this is going to take time.
Speaker 1: It's almost like once I'm aware of it, I just
Speaker 1: I want to solve it immediately. But it just wasn't possible,
Speaker 1: especially as a as a social worker making very minimal
Speaker 1: amounts of money annually. I was doing the best that
Speaker 1: I could, but it took years and years. So just
Speaker 1: the patience along the way was really difficult. But we
Speaker 1: got there. It does happen. There's a light at the
Speaker 1: end of the donnal. Yeah, and yours was not like
Speaker 1: a quick success story. It took you like what four years,
Speaker 1: seven years to seven oh plus. You were you were
Speaker 1: cash flowing, your masters and we took out a loan
Speaker 1: for our vehicle, which was our home. So all of
Speaker 1: that combined. Yeah, in the student wants and doesn't have
Speaker 1: to be I paid off a million dollars of debt
Speaker 1: in two years, like you don't have to have that story. Yes, yes,
Speaker 1: speaking of people who have that story, Um, I think
Speaker 1: so that kind of plays into my biggest struggle because
Speaker 1: we paid off seventy eight thousand dollars in two years.
Speaker 1: And I kind of had two biggest struggles. So the
Speaker 1: first was actually in getting started. I didn't think I
Speaker 1: was capable of paying off more debt than when I
Speaker 1: made in a year. I just thought, Okay, I can't
Speaker 1: do this, and that was really where it stopped because
Speaker 1: I just didn't think, like in my socio economic bracket,
Speaker 1: people like me could pay off that much debt. I
Speaker 1: thought it was impossible, and because nobody around me was
Speaker 1: doing it, and I just didn't see the possibilities, mostly
Speaker 1: because I was very like I was in kind of
Speaker 1: like a bubble of people who were exactly like me,
Speaker 1: and nobody was doing anything different. And it really took
Speaker 1: meeting my husband two like interrupt that line of thinking
Speaker 1: and let me see a new and different route. And
Speaker 1: once we got started and we were working together, then
Speaker 1: we were on fire. Um, and we were a little
Speaker 1: too on fire, which leads me to my next struggle,
Speaker 1: which was shame. I felt like intense shame for two
Speaker 1: years for being so dumb to take out so much debt,
Speaker 1: and that was a lie. I was not dumb. I
Speaker 1: was nineteen years old, um, and I just like didn't know.
Speaker 1: I was not educated on financial and loan products because
Speaker 1: I didn't get that class in high school on loan products.
Speaker 1: And nobody would have given me a business or a
Speaker 1: mortgage loan with that little working at the gap, like
Speaker 1: with no assets. So it was it was I had
Speaker 1: to truly like come out of that shame too after
Speaker 1: it wasn't was not until after we paid off the
Speaker 1: debt that I came out of it, um. But I
Speaker 1: lived in it all two years the whole time, and
Speaker 1: it made me less gracious to other people with debt
Speaker 1: because so it didn't just affect me and how I
Speaker 1: felt miserable, but I judged other people and that I
Speaker 1: regret as well. So so those were the biggest struggles
Speaker 1: for me. I appreciate your honesty, John. Hopefully that will
Speaker 1: be helpful for others to reject the shame because it
Speaker 1: can come internally as well as externally. There's a lot
Speaker 1: of opinions out there about student loan forgiveness, primarily from
Speaker 1: people who never had student loans. Isn't that unique? Uh? Placing,
Speaker 1: or that have paid off their student loans, which is worse,
Speaker 1: or or that went to college and the tuition was
Speaker 1: way less than it is today. Yeah, yeah, you're so,
Speaker 1: if you've got student loans and you're looking for forgiveness
Speaker 1: and you want forgiveness, that's your journey. Like the rest
Speaker 1: of us can shut up. Um that's I mean, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's how I feel about it. Yeah. So, just shame
Speaker 1: in general is never the best most beneficial motivator. So
Speaker 1: even if others are shaming us, I hope that your
Speaker 1: story gen can help others to recognize what to reject,
Speaker 1: what to lean into, because it's not beneficial for us
Speaker 1: or those around us if we are utilizing and accepting
Speaker 1: shame as part of the motivator in this process. It's yeah,
Speaker 1: my my judgment came from my own insecurity and and
Speaker 1: guilt and shame. So know that that if you're feeling
Speaker 1: like the subject of somebody's judgment, that that's prob I mean,
Speaker 1: I can't guarantee that's where it's coming from, but it
Speaker 1: most likely is. So it's not your fault or your story. Well,
Speaker 1: for those who want additional help in this journey and
Speaker 1: more helpful knowledge on student loan forgiveness, other debt free information, Nico,
Speaker 1: Where can they get more from you? On the Graham?
Speaker 1: You can connect with me, follow me on Instagram at
Speaker 1: debt Free gonna be that is where I live. You're
Speaker 1: gonna be, oh yeah, through for celebration when that absolutely
Speaker 1: I'll be ready with my my paper, my comfetti popper
Speaker 1: and everything. Oh yeah, I can't wait. I've been envisioning
Speaker 1: this day for a long time, either through PSLF or
Speaker 1: tackling my loans on my own. That that was originally
Speaker 1: the plan once I became credit card debt free and
Speaker 1: then the uh the waiver came out and I'm like,
Speaker 1: oh my goodness. If I'm reading this right and I
Speaker 1: understand this right, I'm going to be rid of my
Speaker 1: student loans. Yeah. Celebrating you and cheering you on Nka,
Speaker 1: thank you, thank you well. Follow Nika's journey at debt
Speaker 1: Free gonna be on Instagram and can't wait to have
Speaker 1: you back on to celebrate. I can't wait. That was
Speaker 1: so illuminating. I so for you and I and I
Speaker 1: think we kind of touched on this in the episode.
Speaker 1: We are debt free, so of course we're not fully
Speaker 1: diving into all of these loan forgiveness programs personally, but
Speaker 1: we recognize that many of our listeners are and this
Speaker 1: could benefit them. But even from an outsider who who
Speaker 1: helps people to pay off debt and understand the resources
Speaker 1: that are available, this was super helpful for me. And
Speaker 1: any time we can have somebody just break down some
Speaker 1: of the complexities explain it in a simpler way, I
Speaker 1: enjoy that and I think Miko was perfect for that.
Speaker 1: Really helped me understand what's on the table right now,
Speaker 1: what should people be paying attention to. And yeah, I
Speaker 1: I mentioned that for anyone who is eligible for PSLF,
Speaker 1: the is super relevant. Yeah, And with our episodes, we
Speaker 1: always we always think of one person that we're really
Speaker 1: trying to help as best as possible. Like with our
Speaker 1: Breath of episodes, we're trying to help as many people
Speaker 1: as possible, but each episode we want to help one
Speaker 1: person as much as possible. And I told Dica this
Speaker 1: before we started recording. I was like, this episode is
Speaker 1: for my friend Jessica. Our friend Jessica, who is a
Speaker 1: teacher who's on PSLF but has some payments that she
Speaker 1: thinks don't qualify. And I just think I think they
Speaker 1: have to qualify and so this is UM. You know,
Speaker 1: this is for her. And so after we got off
Speaker 1: the recording, she had a few more ideas for our
Speaker 1: friend Jessica, the teacher um. And so there's something also
Speaker 1: if you are a teacher called Teacher Loan Forgiveness, and
Speaker 1: that's a five year program, and previously you could not
Speaker 1: overlap those five years that qualified for the Teacher Loan Forgiveness.
Speaker 1: You could not relap those with qualifying payments for PSLF.
Speaker 1: Now under the waiver, all five years of those payments
Speaker 1: count for PSLF. So if you took advantage of that
Speaker 1: program or want to take advantage of that program. But
Speaker 1: we're choosing between the two, you no longer have to
Speaker 1: choose between them. You can use both. She she mentioned
Speaker 1: anything else, Jill, and no, that's that's what I remember
Speaker 1: just looking into. If you are a teacher looking into
Speaker 1: teach your Loan Forgiveness in addition to PSLF, you could
Speaker 1: do both at the same time, which gosh, if you're
Speaker 1: a teacher, I mean take the next day of school
Speaker 1: off and fill offwork. And every teacher is like, no,
Speaker 1: it's gonna be harder for me to take the day
Speaker 1: off than it wouldn't for me to just stay up
Speaker 1: all night paperwork, because that's what Jessica says. Get on
Speaker 1: it though. But yes, I mean even if you don't
Speaker 1: think your payments qualify, or you can't find like like
Speaker 1: our friend Jessica who's she worked at a charter school,
Speaker 1: that charter school doesn't exist anymore. She has nowhere to
Speaker 1: go to get a signature, self certify, have as much
Speaker 1: proof that you actually worked there as possible for when
Speaker 1: they come question you. Um, and just try. I hope
Speaker 1: that's what we're getting at is, however you feel about forgiveness,
Speaker 1: just go for it. Just try and and if I
Speaker 1: can go back to what Nika said, it's worth it.
Speaker 1: This is a lot of Yes, it's work, it's extra work,
Speaker 1: it's paperwork, it's figuring things out. None of us love
Speaker 1: that it's life admin. But if you get thousands of
Speaker 1: dollars knocked off of what you owe, how amazing. So yeah,
Speaker 1: it's worth it. Technica's word for it. Amen. Al Right, everyone,
Speaker 1: thank you so so much for listening. As you all
Speaker 1: know you've been listening to us. You know we've got
Speaker 1: a private community d where we do monthly money challenges,
Speaker 1: there's accountability groups. There, there's even more community, and we
Speaker 1: want to congratulate one of our members for a recent win.
Speaker 1: Debbie shared with us when I decluttered my PJ bras, etcetera.
Speaker 1: The storage space went from two drawers to one. Just
Speaker 1: purchased some new items in this category because they won't
Speaker 1: fit in the new smaller space. I did what I
Speaker 1: always promised myself I would will do, but didn't. One in,
Speaker 1: one out. Yes, well done with new rule, Yes, way
Speaker 1: to stick to it too. Recently, get them did that
Speaker 1: de clutter challenge, which, as we all know, when we
Speaker 1: de clutter, it's not just about the stuff. We come
Speaker 1: across new learnings about ourselves. We can see financial benefits.
Speaker 1: So that was a fun, recent, actual tangible challenge that
Speaker 1: we did. And congrats Debbie. Thanks everyone for listening. If
Speaker 1: you want to check out our monthly challenge community, head
Speaker 1: to Frugal Friends podcast dot com slash club to see
Speaker 1: what challenge we have coming up next. We'd love to
Speaker 1: have you join us. It's a lot of fun. We'll
Speaker 1: see you next time and again, share this episode with
Speaker 1: whoever you think might benefit from it and fill out
Speaker 1: that PSLF waiver stuff yesterday. My Frugal Friends is produced
Speaker 1: by Eric Sirianni. All right, Jen, you want to hear
Speaker 1: about my frugal fail. Okay, let's preface this was saying,
Speaker 1: we record episodes out of order, so the frugal you
Speaker 1: had a frugal win and a frugal fail. You asked
Speaker 1: which one I want to hear first, and I said
Speaker 1: the frugal win. That episode has not come out yet,
Speaker 1: and you said, next time, I'll share the frugal fail.
Speaker 1: And this is that episode, though it is probably four
Speaker 1: to five weeks earlier. Well, and you know what, I
Speaker 1: love that. And here's why it's complex. It's complicated. It's
Speaker 1: difficult to understand, just like student loans. Yeah, yeah, you're right,
Speaker 1: so this is fitting. You might get confused, but here
Speaker 1: it is. I said, frugal win or frugal fail. So
Speaker 1: wait four more weeks for the frugal win, which is
Speaker 1: okay fail. So I really like Maduro's food, which is
Speaker 1: plantains that are frat me. A second to remember is like,
Speaker 1: do you like the beer but that's madello, yes, like
Speaker 1: mudros and we've you know, there's been times when I
Speaker 1: have made them myself fully from the plantain there are
Speaker 1: times when I will get the frozen bag. Well, recently
Speaker 1: I got it in my head that I'm going to
Speaker 1: make rice and beans, because as much as we joke
Speaker 1: about we don't have to live a rice and beans life,
Speaker 1: I really enjoy rice and beans. I've learned how to
Speaker 1: make them pretty pretty well, and it's so yummy. Uh
Speaker 1: and and if I'm feeling extra creative and and spicy
Speaker 1: and luxurious, I will also pair that with some maduros. Well,
Speaker 1: recently I had it in my head that, Okay, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna make rice some beans this week. I'd love to
Speaker 1: throw in some of these fried plantains, and I'm going
Speaker 1: to make it from plantains, real plantains from the produce section.
Speaker 1: Got the plantains, I'm like, I'm being so good, I
Speaker 1: meaning some ruinal got the plantains so inexpensively, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: make it myself. Well, the thing about plantains is it's
Speaker 1: really hard to tell when they are ready to be utilized.
Speaker 1: In the Internet tells you it's great to use them unripened.
Speaker 1: So I'm like, all right, no matter what stage these
Speaker 1: plantains are in, I'm going to use them. Slice it
Speaker 1: open for anyone who has made fried plantains themselves. You
Speaker 1: know that they are very different from bananas. They don't
Speaker 1: peel apart like bananas. It's much more difficult to get
Speaker 1: the skins off of the plantain. I have done this before,
Speaker 1: and I've done it without injury to myself. But this
Speaker 1: time around, as I was peeling off, the skin was
Speaker 1: really not coming off the plantain, so it must have
Speaker 1: been very unripened. But I was already so deep into it.
Speaker 1: The oil was already getting hot, and like, we're just
Speaker 1: gonna go for it. We're gonna see what happens. Well,
Speaker 1: I am using my thumbnail to scrape off the skin
Speaker 1: of the plantain from the flesh of the plantain. And
Speaker 1: after like a minute of doing this, and like, oh
Speaker 1: that hurts, Like plantain skin was getting like shoved up
Speaker 1: into my nail, so I pull it out. I'm like,
Speaker 1: all right, I'm done with that. I'm going to scrape
Speaker 1: it off with a knife. Well, two days later, my
Speaker 1: thumb is thraw bg with I guess plantain skin that
Speaker 1: is still lodged in between my thumb and my thumb nail,
Speaker 1: like like shards of glass in there, got infected swollen.
Speaker 1: It like kept me up at night I could not
Speaker 1: sleep for two nights straight because my thumb, and also
Speaker 1: I need my right thumb. I use it for a
Speaker 1: lot of things. It was like really hard to brush
Speaker 1: my teeth. I can't really do much with my left hand,
Speaker 1: so it was it was a fail. No, not with
Speaker 1: my left left your left thumb. Yeah, And my takeaway
Speaker 1: this might not be everyone's takeaway because you might be
Speaker 1: better at cooking than me is I'm just going to
Speaker 1: do the frozen stuff next time. It tastes better and
Speaker 1: I probably won't get an infection. But that felt like
Speaker 1: a fail, a really hard fail, and I advocate for
Speaker 1: pres days later. That is not for me, and I
Speaker 1: don't even think it saved me that much money. I
Speaker 1: felt better about myself, like, oh, I know the ingredients
Speaker 1: that I'm cooking with, there's no additives here. And then
Speaker 1: being so good jokes on me, get a thumb infection,
Speaker 1: can't sleep for two days exactly. Oh it was so
Speaker 1: rough for fail. I'm so sorry that that happened to you.
Speaker 1: Um all over a plantain. I know. Here's the thing.
Speaker 1: My injuries happen in the kitchen. You would think all
Speaker 1: of the renovations we hung dry wall on the ceiling
Speaker 1: that same weekend with a lift that we rented and
Speaker 1: power tools and things above our head. You would think
Speaker 1: that that's when I get injured. Nope, cooking plantains that
Speaker 1: concern there. And Eric knows what he's doing still, well yeah, technically,
Speaker 1: but he gets injured too. He gets he gets injured
Speaker 1: with the renovations that we do himself. He cuts arteries.
Speaker 1: It's really crazy and insane. And then that the other time,
Speaker 1: you know my like classic story way back in the
Speaker 1: archives of the medical thing that happened to me when
Speaker 1: we had a renovations business. And I should have gotten stitches,
Speaker 1: but I didn't. That was during a renovation, but it
Speaker 1: was when I was cleaning dishes. Like the glass broke
Speaker 1: in the bathroom sink sliced me up, almost fainted. Wow,
Speaker 1: did my own stitching with super glue. And see, this
Speaker 1: is what happens when you try thing. This is what
Speaker 1: happens when you try and be in the kitchen. I
Speaker 1: shouldn't be there, the no, you should just like stop
Speaker 1: trying and just take the easier way out. Food. Don't
Speaker 1: do the dishes, get frozen food. Mm hmm. Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: the moral of this story is stop trying so hard,
Speaker 1: and that's the brand of frugality I promote. I'm here
Speaker 1: for it. That's frugal fails. Yeah. By