1 00:00:14,520 --> 00:00:18,160 Speaker 1: You're listening to Part Time Genius, the production of Kaleidoscope 2 00:00:18,400 --> 00:00:24,120 Speaker 1: and iHeartRadio. Guess what, Mary? 3 00:00:24,280 --> 00:00:25,080 Speaker 2: What's that Mango? 4 00:00:26,040 --> 00:00:28,840 Speaker 1: Do you know? One of the most famous French puppets 5 00:00:28,920 --> 00:00:31,880 Speaker 1: in history was created by a nineteenth century dentist as 6 00:00:31,920 --> 00:00:35,000 Speaker 1: a way to distract his patients from their toothpain. 7 00:00:35,800 --> 00:00:38,320 Speaker 2: Did he also treat their toothpaint or what? Did he 8 00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:40,400 Speaker 2: just put on a puppet show and send them on 9 00:00:40,440 --> 00:00:42,040 Speaker 2: their way? That's unstandable. 10 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:45,640 Speaker 1: That part's unclear. The dentist puppeteer in question was this 11 00:00:45,720 --> 00:00:50,199 Speaker 1: man named Louren Morga, and he lived in Leone in 12 00:00:50,240 --> 00:00:53,199 Speaker 1: the early nineteenth century. And Morgay worked a series of 13 00:00:53,240 --> 00:00:57,560 Speaker 1: odd jobs before becoming a dentist. And he almost certainly 14 00:00:57,560 --> 00:01:02,440 Speaker 1: didn't have any formal medical training because back then dentistry 15 00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:05,959 Speaker 1: mostly just involved pulling teeth, which I guess anyone could do. 16 00:01:06,080 --> 00:01:08,760 Speaker 1: It wasn't considered a full fledged medical practice. 17 00:01:08,840 --> 00:01:11,640 Speaker 2: Wow, you know, I do love the diy, but not 18 00:01:11,880 --> 00:01:15,959 Speaker 2: when it comes to dentistry. That must have hurt. 19 00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:19,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think so. But in eighteen oh eight, more 20 00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:23,680 Speaker 1: Gay created a puppet named Guinyall. And this is a 21 00:01:23,720 --> 00:01:27,640 Speaker 1: working class every man. It was loosely based on himself, 22 00:01:27,720 --> 00:01:31,280 Speaker 1: and he performed for his patients and he used Guenal 23 00:01:31,360 --> 00:01:33,679 Speaker 1: to drum up new business, so I guess it was 24 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:36,520 Speaker 1: great marketing. At some point Morgay must have realized he 25 00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:40,080 Speaker 1: was a way better puppeteer than dentist, so in the 26 00:01:40,120 --> 00:01:43,920 Speaker 1: eighteen twenties he quit dentistry to focus on puppetry full time, 27 00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:48,400 Speaker 1: and it actually became this family affair. Morgay had sixteen 28 00:01:48,520 --> 00:01:52,840 Speaker 1: children who helped spread Guenioll puppetry across France and these 29 00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:56,800 Speaker 1: shows became a sensation. Other puppeteers started putting on Guiniall 30 00:01:56,880 --> 00:01:59,440 Speaker 1: shows and at one point the French police even tried 31 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:00,480 Speaker 1: to put a stop to them. 32 00:02:00,520 --> 00:02:01,720 Speaker 2: Why what was the problem. 33 00:02:01,960 --> 00:02:03,320 Speaker 1: I think I had something to do with all the 34 00:02:03,400 --> 00:02:07,320 Speaker 1: slapstick violence the show's featured, but also gen y'all lampooned 35 00:02:07,480 --> 00:02:10,960 Speaker 1: authority figures and the wealthy, or you know, maybe the 36 00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:13,320 Speaker 1: police just hated puppetry. It could have been that too. 37 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:17,600 Speaker 1: Either way, the censorship didn't work and gin y'all survived, 38 00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:20,000 Speaker 1: and if you go to France today, especially the young, 39 00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:23,960 Speaker 1: you can still see gin y'all puppet shows to this day, 40 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:27,680 Speaker 1: and you have one mediocre dentist to thank for it all. 41 00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:31,680 Speaker 1: But we've got eight more surprising puppet facts waiting backstage, 42 00:02:31,840 --> 00:02:55,639 Speaker 1: so let's dive in. Hey, their podcast listeners, Welcome to 43 00:02:55,680 --> 00:02:58,799 Speaker 1: Part Time Genius. I'm Mongus Articular and today I'm joined 44 00:02:58,800 --> 00:03:04,040 Speaker 1: by producer extra Ordinaire Mary Philip Sandy. And over there 45 00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:06,920 Speaker 1: in the booth is the man who literally pulls the 46 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:11,040 Speaker 1: strings on this show. It's our pal and producer Dylan Fagan. Hey, Dylan, 47 00:03:11,080 --> 00:03:12,760 Speaker 1: maybe you can make me stop waving at you now? 48 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:14,880 Speaker 1: My arm is getting tired. 49 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:19,640 Speaker 2: Dylan. Well, speaking of getting tired, my gosh, have you 50 00:03:19,760 --> 00:03:22,480 Speaker 2: ever heard of wyang kul It? It is a type 51 00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:27,519 Speaker 2: of Indonesian shadow puppetry whose performances can go all night. Traditionally, 52 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:30,320 Speaker 2: these shows start at midnight and they run until dawn. 53 00:03:30,760 --> 00:03:33,679 Speaker 1: It sounds like it requires quite an attention span. 54 00:03:33,880 --> 00:03:37,200 Speaker 2: Well, fortunately, it's not considered impolite for the audience to 55 00:03:37,520 --> 00:03:39,440 Speaker 2: come and go as they please. It's kind of like 56 00:03:39,480 --> 00:03:42,280 Speaker 2: a festival atmosphere. It's not like you're sitting at the 57 00:03:42,280 --> 00:03:44,320 Speaker 2: opera and you can't get up and move around. But 58 00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:47,840 Speaker 2: what's really impressive is that during the whole performance, the 59 00:03:47,880 --> 00:03:50,040 Speaker 2: puppeteer never takes a break. 60 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:52,920 Speaker 1: Wait, that's insane, So it's not even like an intermission. 61 00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:56,160 Speaker 2: Nope. And the whole show is performed by one puppeteer 62 00:03:56,280 --> 00:03:58,840 Speaker 2: called a DeLong, and the DeLong sits in front of 63 00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:02,200 Speaker 2: a screen manipulating all the puppets, which are usually made 64 00:04:02,200 --> 00:04:05,880 Speaker 2: from water buffalo hide and mounted on sticks. A single 65 00:04:05,920 --> 00:04:10,400 Speaker 2: performance might involve hundreds of them. Now, Wyanmkulit is an 66 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:12,840 Speaker 2: ancient art form. It dates back to the eight hundreds, 67 00:04:12,880 --> 00:04:16,080 Speaker 2: not the eighteen hundreds, the eight hundreds, but it's evolved 68 00:04:16,080 --> 00:04:18,440 Speaker 2: a bit to cater to modern taste. These days. Some 69 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:20,240 Speaker 2: of the shows are just a few hours long, you know, 70 00:04:20,279 --> 00:04:23,039 Speaker 2: because our attention spans are shorter, and to appeal to 71 00:04:23,080 --> 00:04:26,320 Speaker 2: younger audiences, delongs have begun to mix in some pop 72 00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:30,800 Speaker 2: culture references like Superman, or they'll dress the characters in 73 00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:33,320 Speaker 2: modern clothes, you know, like sneakers and beanies. 74 00:04:33,560 --> 00:04:36,599 Speaker 1: I love that beanies are like modern clothes, well. 75 00:04:36,480 --> 00:04:41,080 Speaker 2: Compared to the eight hundreds. My gosh, the beanies in 76 00:04:41,080 --> 00:04:43,799 Speaker 2: Indonesia in the eight hundreds, so you know, they're bringing 77 00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:46,720 Speaker 2: it up to modern times. In one DeLong even did 78 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:50,200 Speaker 2: a show where he added a Barack Obama character. This 79 00:04:50,320 --> 00:04:52,920 Speaker 2: was in twenty twelve, and of course that's because Obama 80 00:04:52,960 --> 00:04:56,320 Speaker 2: spent part of his childhood in Indonesia, and you know, 81 00:04:56,360 --> 00:04:59,479 Speaker 2: so the DeLong wanted to celebrate that, but he also 82 00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:01,880 Speaker 2: took the op opportunity to poke fun at some of 83 00:05:01,960 --> 00:05:05,599 Speaker 2: Obama's policies in the show. He suggested that the president 84 00:05:05,640 --> 00:05:08,760 Speaker 2: should be spending less on the US military and more 85 00:05:08,839 --> 00:05:12,800 Speaker 2: on the arts, of which puppetree, of course is one. 86 00:05:13,400 --> 00:05:17,200 Speaker 1: So a lot of puppet traditions incorporate really topical political 87 00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:19,960 Speaker 1: commentary and satire and something I hadn't really picked up 88 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:23,680 Speaker 1: on until we started this episode. But in Nigeria, the 89 00:05:23,839 --> 00:05:27,840 Speaker 1: a Bibio people practice a highly satirical form of pop 90 00:05:27,880 --> 00:05:32,720 Speaker 1: tree known as ekon or ekng. Ekon was huge during 91 00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:35,560 Speaker 1: the country's colonial era. So if you're thinking about like 92 00:05:35,560 --> 00:05:39,479 Speaker 1: from the eighteen nineties through the nineteen sixties, and the 93 00:05:39,440 --> 00:05:43,920 Speaker 1: puppeteers skewed everyone from local criminals and neighboring ethnic groups 94 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:48,160 Speaker 1: to Catholic missionaries and British colonial officials, and they really 95 00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:52,080 Speaker 1: did not hold back. There's a mid century econ puppet 96 00:05:52,240 --> 00:05:55,760 Speaker 1: at the Smithsonian that depicts King George of England wearing 97 00:05:55,800 --> 00:05:58,520 Speaker 1: a crown and holding his arms out to the audience. 98 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:01,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, well God isn't really making fun of him though. 99 00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:05,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, but he's also completely naked from the waist down. 100 00:06:05,839 --> 00:06:08,520 Speaker 2: Okay, there it is, there it is, I gotcha. 101 00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:13,839 Speaker 1: So during the British occupation, Econ performances attracted crowds of 102 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:16,880 Speaker 1: up to one thousand people at a time. Their popularity, 103 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:20,360 Speaker 1: combined with their controversial subject matter, meant that being a 104 00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:23,160 Speaker 1: puppeteer could be dangerous. In fact, it was so dangerous 105 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:26,440 Speaker 1: that the identities of puppeteers were generally kept secret to 106 00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:30,320 Speaker 1: protect them from backlash, which is pretty amazing. But in 107 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:33,080 Speaker 1: a way, this could explain why puppets are so perfect 108 00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:37,080 Speaker 1: for political speech. The puppet provides anonymity. It's a buffer 109 00:06:37,080 --> 00:06:40,000 Speaker 1: between the performer and the audience, so you can kind 110 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:41,120 Speaker 1: of be whoever you want to be. 111 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:44,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, that makes sense, And actually that is the exact 112 00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:48,200 Speaker 2: principle behind my next fact. Because puppets aren't just for 113 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:52,240 Speaker 2: theater and storytelling anymore. They're used in classrooms, therapy, and 114 00:06:52,360 --> 00:06:54,279 Speaker 2: even wildlife conservation. 115 00:06:54,880 --> 00:06:55,360 Speaker 1: Huh. 116 00:06:55,400 --> 00:06:59,360 Speaker 2: There's a wildlife center in Wisconsin called the International Crane Foundation, 117 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:03,159 Speaker 2: and it's using puppets to help the endangered whooping crane. 118 00:07:04,320 --> 00:07:09,080 Speaker 1: Are they putting on political theater for these birds? No? 119 00:07:09,080 --> 00:07:12,200 Speaker 2: No, that would be amazing. No. So what it is 120 00:07:12,200 --> 00:07:14,880 Speaker 2: is the ICF breeds whooping cranes, right, they raise the 121 00:07:14,960 --> 00:07:17,040 Speaker 2: chicks and then they release them back into the wild 122 00:07:17,080 --> 00:07:20,800 Speaker 2: to help the population grow. But there's a problem. Baby 123 00:07:20,840 --> 00:07:24,200 Speaker 2: whooping cranes imprint on whoever is raising them, which in 124 00:07:24,200 --> 00:07:27,960 Speaker 2: this case is humans, and if that happens, basically they 125 00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:30,440 Speaker 2: won't know they're a crane and then they won't know 126 00:07:30,480 --> 00:07:33,800 Speaker 2: how to function in the wild. So employees at the 127 00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:37,600 Speaker 2: ICF started wearing these big white suits that completely cover 128 00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:40,720 Speaker 2: their bodies, and they use hand puppets that look like 129 00:07:40,840 --> 00:07:44,960 Speaker 2: cranes to interact with the chicks. Oh wow, And they 130 00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:48,120 Speaker 2: take the puppeteering part of this job really seriously, Like 131 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:50,640 Speaker 2: if they hear a loud noise, they'll cock the puppet's 132 00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:52,800 Speaker 2: head toward it in a crane like way, or if 133 00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:55,360 Speaker 2: they see something, you know that could be a threat, 134 00:07:55,400 --> 00:07:57,920 Speaker 2: the puppet will freeze. And as a result of this, 135 00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:00,400 Speaker 2: the chicks actually learn how to be brains. 136 00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:05,920 Speaker 1: That is both really cute and a little unsettling, right, Like, 137 00:08:05,960 --> 00:08:07,560 Speaker 1: I mean, how would you feel you found out one 138 00:08:07,560 --> 00:08:08,600 Speaker 1: of your parents was a puppet. 139 00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:11,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know. Maybe maybe teenage whooping cranes have 140 00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:13,720 Speaker 2: to go to therapy. I don't know. That could be, 141 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:15,560 Speaker 2: that could be part of the part of what they're 142 00:08:15,560 --> 00:08:19,640 Speaker 2: working on. But apparently crane puppets make really good parents. 143 00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:22,680 Speaker 2: It actually works, and this helps prepare the babies for 144 00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:25,360 Speaker 2: living independently in the wild and surviving. 145 00:08:25,960 --> 00:08:27,800 Speaker 1: I love that. I love the idea of someone going 146 00:08:27,840 --> 00:08:30,960 Speaker 1: to school to become a wildlife biologist and then they 147 00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:32,800 Speaker 1: ended up running around with a crane puppet. 148 00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:35,600 Speaker 2: Right. I did not get a PhD for this. 149 00:08:37,280 --> 00:08:40,839 Speaker 1: But speaking of weird puppet careers, Mary, how familiar are 150 00:08:40,840 --> 00:08:42,120 Speaker 1: you with emo music? 151 00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:44,319 Speaker 2: Well, you know, I never wore eyeliner, if that is 152 00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:48,120 Speaker 2: what you're asking. But uh, you know I had a 153 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:51,480 Speaker 2: couple Jets to Brazil CDs in college. I mean didn't 154 00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:52,320 Speaker 2: we all right? 155 00:08:52,520 --> 00:08:52,800 Speaker 1: Sure? 156 00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:54,520 Speaker 2: No, you were cool, you liked hip hop? 157 00:08:54,559 --> 00:08:54,920 Speaker 1: You did not. 158 00:08:55,120 --> 00:08:58,120 Speaker 2: You were not dealing with this sort of thing, were you. 159 00:08:58,120 --> 00:09:01,280 Speaker 1: You know, my cousin produced the US to Brazil album. 160 00:09:01,760 --> 00:09:05,760 Speaker 2: Sorry okay man. 161 00:09:07,880 --> 00:09:13,439 Speaker 1: But in twenty fourteen, this comedian named Brentley Hilbrun formed 162 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:19,000 Speaker 1: an all puppet emo band called Fragile Rock Finno is 163 00:09:19,240 --> 00:09:23,120 Speaker 1: kind of based off of fraggle Rock of course. Of course. 164 00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:26,160 Speaker 2: Wow, you know that's one of those puns where I 165 00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:28,520 Speaker 2: hear it and I just kind of get mad because 166 00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:31,600 Speaker 2: why didn't I think of that when I was in college? 167 00:09:32,960 --> 00:09:38,480 Speaker 1: Brizill, that's really funny. Anyway, Hilbrun was going through a 168 00:09:38,559 --> 00:09:41,560 Speaker 1: rough to Wars at the time, and he decided he 169 00:09:41,640 --> 00:09:44,079 Speaker 1: needed a musical outlet, so he teamed up with a 170 00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:48,040 Speaker 1: group of musicians and puppeteers to bring Fragile Rock to life. 171 00:09:48,520 --> 00:09:51,560 Speaker 1: The band is made up of five puppets and their 172 00:09:51,640 --> 00:09:55,560 Speaker 1: respective puppeteers who sing songs with titles like wake Up 173 00:09:55,600 --> 00:10:00,079 Speaker 1: to the Breakup and I Am Sad and so Am I. 174 00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:04,800 Speaker 1: The band has played at music festivals. They even had 175 00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:07,600 Speaker 1: their own NPR Time Desk concert, which I did not 176 00:10:07,679 --> 00:10:09,360 Speaker 1: see but I need to go back and look at now. 177 00:10:09,679 --> 00:10:12,840 Speaker 1: And at one point they tried their luck on America's 178 00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:15,960 Speaker 1: Got Talent, but apparently they were bowed off stage and 179 00:10:16,080 --> 00:10:19,640 Speaker 1: the segment never aired, which only feeds into their emo 180 00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:23,800 Speaker 1: NEAs I think you but Brentley wrote about the experience 181 00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:26,719 Speaker 1: on the band's website in a post titled I was 182 00:10:26,760 --> 00:10:29,880 Speaker 1: an emo puppet failure on America's Got Talent. 183 00:10:31,040 --> 00:10:33,360 Speaker 2: You know what, that doesn't need to be a blog post. 184 00:10:33,400 --> 00:10:36,720 Speaker 2: I would watch an hour long like TV documentary just 185 00:10:36,920 --> 00:10:37,480 Speaker 2: about that. 186 00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:41,000 Speaker 1: One hundred percent. I would too. But my favorite thing 187 00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:45,480 Speaker 1: about Fragile Rock is that its members have developed complex 188 00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:49,240 Speaker 1: backstories for each of their puppets, and their backstories are 189 00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:54,319 Speaker 1: pretty quirky. They mostly involved dramatic romances and breakups between 190 00:10:54,400 --> 00:10:57,680 Speaker 1: the band members. There's even a whole love triangle involving 191 00:10:57,720 --> 00:10:59,280 Speaker 1: the actor Elijah. 192 00:10:59,480 --> 00:11:02,680 Speaker 2: Sure you know what. I take it back. I did 193 00:11:02,679 --> 00:11:05,760 Speaker 2: not mean TV episode or documentary. I mean series. I 194 00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:09,960 Speaker 2: mean a limited run Netflix. Please get on this right now. 195 00:11:10,679 --> 00:11:13,000 Speaker 2: It is so wonderful and bizarre. I love it. And 196 00:11:13,040 --> 00:11:14,840 Speaker 2: you know, like you were saying, I think getting booed 197 00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:18,079 Speaker 2: off stage is a lot more emo than winning America's 198 00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:18,600 Speaker 2: Got Talent. 199 00:11:18,800 --> 00:11:21,600 Speaker 1: You know what, You are absolutely right. If the Fragile 200 00:11:21,720 --> 00:11:25,679 Speaker 1: Rock folks are listening, I hope they take comfort in that. Okay, 201 00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:27,160 Speaker 1: we have to take a quick break, but when we 202 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:30,440 Speaker 1: get back, we've got an Indian puppet tradition that goes 203 00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:34,600 Speaker 1: back centuries and puppets in water. Please don't go anywhere 204 00:11:49,720 --> 00:11:52,160 Speaker 1: Welcome back to Part Time Genius, where we're answering all 205 00:11:52,200 --> 00:11:54,680 Speaker 1: the questions you didn't know you had about puppets. But 206 00:11:55,000 --> 00:11:57,280 Speaker 1: you know, if you have any questions about other things 207 00:11:57,679 --> 00:12:00,640 Speaker 1: or a fun rabbit hole you think we should be down, 208 00:12:01,040 --> 00:12:05,760 Speaker 1: send us an email at high Geniuses at gmail dot com. 209 00:12:05,800 --> 00:12:10,040 Speaker 1: That's Hi Geniuses at gmail dot com. You can even 210 00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:12,720 Speaker 1: send us a voice memo if you'd like, and we 211 00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:15,880 Speaker 1: might use it in an upcoming episode. So, Mary, I 212 00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:18,120 Speaker 1: know we've got to go back to puppetown in a second. 213 00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:19,800 Speaker 1: But are you a fan of puppets? 214 00:12:20,120 --> 00:12:22,120 Speaker 2: I am, and you know, I think I've mentioned this 215 00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:23,800 Speaker 2: on the show before. I have a deep dark history 216 00:12:23,800 --> 00:12:28,120 Speaker 2: as a theater kid. And that first category of puppetree 217 00:12:28,160 --> 00:12:30,920 Speaker 2: we spoke about the Indonesian shadow puppetree. I have a 218 00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:33,319 Speaker 2: little experience about. My college actually had a gamal on. 219 00:12:33,440 --> 00:12:36,960 Speaker 2: Of course, the really the Indonesian orchestra that typically performs 220 00:12:36,960 --> 00:12:40,240 Speaker 2: with the Indonesian shadow puppetry, and so we did actually 221 00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:43,720 Speaker 2: some performances that incorporated principles of Indonesian shadow puppetry. So 222 00:12:43,760 --> 00:12:47,560 Speaker 2: this is not my first go round. I know I 223 00:12:47,679 --> 00:12:50,200 Speaker 2: made it sound like this was new to me because 224 00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:52,480 Speaker 2: I wanted the audience to feel like I was not 225 00:12:52,679 --> 00:12:55,600 Speaker 2: as big a nerve as I am. I'll tell you now, 226 00:12:55,600 --> 00:12:57,680 Speaker 2: in the second half after the ad break, I knew 227 00:12:57,679 --> 00:12:58,280 Speaker 2: all about it. 228 00:12:59,160 --> 00:13:01,720 Speaker 1: That is amazing. I had no idea. I feel like 229 00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:05,040 Speaker 1: my puppetry understanding really like ends. So I have a 230 00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:07,880 Speaker 1: little bit of marionettes and muppets, and like, you know, 231 00:13:08,040 --> 00:13:10,960 Speaker 1: I've always been like fascinated with puppets, but it's not 232 00:13:11,040 --> 00:13:13,040 Speaker 1: something I've ever really played around much with. 233 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:15,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, because you were cool and listening to cool music 234 00:13:15,280 --> 00:13:17,319 Speaker 2: with your cool producer cousin while I was being a 235 00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:21,640 Speaker 2: theater That's why I don't feel that you should feel 236 00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:22,120 Speaker 2: good about this. 237 00:13:22,440 --> 00:13:25,000 Speaker 1: But you know, I did see I saw the pee 238 00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:29,880 Speaker 1: Wee Herman documentary on HBO this weekend, and one it's 239 00:13:29,960 --> 00:13:33,959 Speaker 1: really good and fascinating his whole career and how ambitious 240 00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:36,800 Speaker 1: he is, the way he had these identities that he 241 00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:42,600 Speaker 1: lived in. But they also showed how the puppet cherry worked, 242 00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:44,880 Speaker 1: you know, that chair and like how there was like 243 00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:47,600 Speaker 1: a little monitor in there, and how the puppeteer was 244 00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:49,760 Speaker 1: working in it was like, it's kind of amazing. 245 00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:52,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's incredible. I mean, it really combines all of 246 00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:55,600 Speaker 2: these things that are great about puppetry. There's art, there's craft, 247 00:13:55,640 --> 00:13:57,920 Speaker 2: there's a little bit of subversiveness a lot of the time, 248 00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:01,679 Speaker 2: and it can create something really magical. But we do 249 00:14:01,720 --> 00:14:03,320 Speaker 2: take it for granted because we grow up with this 250 00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:05,840 Speaker 2: stuff on TV, and so it seems silly or childish. 251 00:14:05,880 --> 00:14:09,679 Speaker 2: But I mean there's actually a lot of really complicated 252 00:14:09,880 --> 00:14:12,960 Speaker 2: and rich history to puppets, which is why we wanted 253 00:14:12,960 --> 00:14:16,320 Speaker 2: to do this episode. And there's also some really novel 254 00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:19,280 Speaker 2: ways of approaching puppetry. Right, it's not all happening on 255 00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:22,320 Speaker 2: a stage. For example, I want to tell you about 256 00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:27,120 Speaker 2: this next fact, which is Vietnamese water puppetry. It takes 257 00:14:27,120 --> 00:14:28,600 Speaker 2: place in a pool of water. 258 00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:32,040 Speaker 1: I'm so excited about this, Yeah, tell me more so. 259 00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:34,400 Speaker 2: I know you might be thinking that this would be 260 00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:36,680 Speaker 2: a feat of incredible physical strength, right, Like if the 261 00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:39,560 Speaker 2: puppeteers had to be treading water the whole time, that 262 00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:42,640 Speaker 2: would be very difficult. That would be more like water 263 00:14:42,680 --> 00:14:43,560 Speaker 2: polo puppetry. 264 00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:44,520 Speaker 1: That's not what this is. 265 00:14:44,640 --> 00:14:47,480 Speaker 2: No, the pool's only about waste deep. But what it 266 00:14:47,520 --> 00:14:50,280 Speaker 2: does is the water gives the illusion that the puppets 267 00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:53,240 Speaker 2: are moving or swimming on their own. And that's because 268 00:14:53,240 --> 00:14:56,560 Speaker 2: the puppeteers are behind a screen. They're completely hidden from 269 00:14:56,560 --> 00:15:00,160 Speaker 2: the audience, and they control the puppets using polls and 270 00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:03,840 Speaker 2: strings that are attached underwater. And the puppets themselves are 271 00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:06,400 Speaker 2: made of buoyant fig wood, so they float on the water, 272 00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:09,080 Speaker 2: and naturally they tend to be aquatic themes. So you 273 00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:12,040 Speaker 2: got a lot of fish and fishermen and boats, and 274 00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:14,720 Speaker 2: from the audience's perspective, it looks like the puppets are 275 00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:18,720 Speaker 2: swimming and splashing around completely independently. There's all these cool 276 00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:21,520 Speaker 2: effects they do by having the puppets dive down under 277 00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:23,960 Speaker 2: the surface of the water and then re emerging. 278 00:15:24,280 --> 00:15:25,880 Speaker 1: Do you know how they came up with this method 279 00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:27,280 Speaker 1: of performance. 280 00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:31,360 Speaker 2: Of course I do. It was invented by farmers in 281 00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:34,240 Speaker 2: the Red River Delta about a thousand years ago, and 282 00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:37,040 Speaker 2: every year farming villages would hold a big festival at 283 00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:39,440 Speaker 2: the end of the rice harvest, and at some point 284 00:15:39,520 --> 00:15:42,600 Speaker 2: they came up with the idea to hold puppet shows 285 00:15:42,680 --> 00:15:45,360 Speaker 2: in the flooded rice paddies. Right, there was already standing 286 00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:48,320 Speaker 2: water there, so they thought, let's put puppets in it, 287 00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:52,840 Speaker 2: and so water puppetry was originally this really local tradition 288 00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:57,440 Speaker 2: tied to farming and the agricultural cycles. But unsurprisingly something 289 00:15:57,440 --> 00:16:01,840 Speaker 2: that cool it grew in popularity started to spread across Vietnam. 290 00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:05,560 Speaker 2: Today there are specially made water puppetry stages even in 291 00:16:05,640 --> 00:16:07,560 Speaker 2: major cities, so you don't even need to have a 292 00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:08,560 Speaker 2: rice patty anymore. 293 00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:11,320 Speaker 1: That is really really cool. I can't wait to check 294 00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:13,840 Speaker 1: it out. Okay, So for our next fact, we are 295 00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:17,080 Speaker 1: traveling to India, where puppeteer is known as knots or 296 00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:22,400 Speaker 1: bots have carried on a puppetry tradition called Cutwucki, and 297 00:16:22,560 --> 00:16:25,920 Speaker 1: this has happened for nearly four hundred years now. Cut 298 00:16:25,960 --> 00:16:30,040 Speaker 1: puckly puppets look a bit like Marionette's with strings attached 299 00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:32,760 Speaker 1: to their head and arms. But one of the things 300 00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:35,360 Speaker 1: that makes them really unique has to do with the 301 00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:40,480 Speaker 1: way that the puppets communicate. They speak their own puppet language, 302 00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:44,960 Speaker 1: which the puppeteer evokes using a bamboo whistle called a bowlie, 303 00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:48,480 Speaker 1: So none of the dialogue in performance is in language 304 00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:51,160 Speaker 1: the audience can understand. It's a little like adults in 305 00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:52,760 Speaker 1: a Peanuts cartoon. 306 00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:56,680 Speaker 2: So the audience can follow what's going on through the visuals. 307 00:16:56,680 --> 00:17:00,200 Speaker 1: Or what there is a narrator there who helps the 308 00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:04,000 Speaker 1: audience follow the story and translates the puppet language and 309 00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:07,639 Speaker 1: explains what's going on. Traditionally, the bots were semi nomadic, 310 00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:10,840 Speaker 1: so families of puppeteers would travel together during the dry season, 311 00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:13,679 Speaker 1: then return to their own villages during the rainy season 312 00:17:13,720 --> 00:17:17,080 Speaker 1: to farm their crops. Nowadays, some of the bots are 313 00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:20,560 Speaker 1: still nomadic, but others have settled in cities in search 314 00:17:20,560 --> 00:17:24,520 Speaker 1: of bigger crowds. In New Delhi, there's even a neighborhood 315 00:17:24,560 --> 00:17:27,840 Speaker 1: that's home to many of these puppeteers. It's called the 316 00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:29,360 Speaker 1: Cuthputley Colony. 317 00:17:29,560 --> 00:17:31,879 Speaker 2: Wow, I wish there were more puppeteers in my neighborhood. 318 00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:40,320 Speaker 1: I mean, you can move to Brooklyn, dear. Really yeah? Wow? 319 00:17:40,520 --> 00:17:42,719 Speaker 2: I mean you know, I do love living Uptown, but 320 00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:44,560 Speaker 2: I can say we do not have a lot of 321 00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:46,600 Speaker 2: puppets unless there's a puppet scene that I just am 322 00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:48,600 Speaker 2: not tapped into, in which case, if you know anything, 323 00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:55,160 Speaker 2: hygeniuses at gmail dot com, tell me Uptown Manhattan's puppets scene. Okay, Mango, Well, 324 00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:58,080 Speaker 2: I told you about water puppetry in Vietnam, but now 325 00:17:58,119 --> 00:18:00,240 Speaker 2: I'm going to tell you about something a little differnt 326 00:18:00,280 --> 00:18:02,439 Speaker 2: and that is solid water puppetry. 327 00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:06,000 Speaker 1: Solid water this is this is like ice puppetry. 328 00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:10,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly ice. So in twenty sixteen, a French theater 329 00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:13,879 Speaker 2: company called Teatre de Lantruvert premiered a show called Anywhere, 330 00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:16,800 Speaker 2: starring a puppet made of solid ice. 331 00:18:17,040 --> 00:18:19,400 Speaker 1: Which sounds amazing, But wouldn't that melt? 332 00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:22,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, and that was the point. The play is based 333 00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:25,159 Speaker 2: on the novel Oedipus on the Road, which tells the 334 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:28,920 Speaker 2: story of the mythological king Oedipus well on the road 335 00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:32,959 Speaker 2: after he's been exiled from Thebes, and it's all about 336 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:37,360 Speaker 2: his internal struggle and metamorphosis. And by making the Oedipus 337 00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:40,840 Speaker 2: puppet out of ice, the playwright Elis vig Neuron wanted 338 00:18:40,880 --> 00:18:45,080 Speaker 2: to show those interior transformations happening physically, so the puppet 339 00:18:45,119 --> 00:18:47,119 Speaker 2: changes shape over the course of the play as it 340 00:18:47,119 --> 00:18:50,080 Speaker 2: gradually melts. Of course, this does mean they have to 341 00:18:50,119 --> 00:18:53,200 Speaker 2: make a new puppet every time they perform the show, 342 00:18:53,280 --> 00:18:56,600 Speaker 2: and it is a whole process. Oedipus is a marionette, 343 00:18:56,680 --> 00:19:01,000 Speaker 2: and ice marionette. Think about that. With articulated wrist, elbow, 344 00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:03,520 Speaker 2: and knee joints. Every piece of the body has to 345 00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:05,520 Speaker 2: be frozen in a separate mold and then they put 346 00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:08,359 Speaker 2: it together very very very carefully. 347 00:19:08,840 --> 00:19:13,720 Speaker 1: Wow. That sounds both really beautiful and like so much work. 348 00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:17,720 Speaker 1: I'm kind of glad I'm not a French ice puppet performer, 349 00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:20,280 Speaker 1: Like I didn't you know that was a thing. I 350 00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:20,879 Speaker 1: don't want to be. 351 00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:26,359 Speaker 2: We're all about learning unexpected things on this show. Okay, 352 00:19:26,359 --> 00:19:28,639 Speaker 2: man hit us with our final puppet fact. 353 00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:31,119 Speaker 1: Do you know we have a puppeteer to thank for 354 00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:34,280 Speaker 1: one of our most iconic Thanksgiving traditions? 355 00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:39,080 Speaker 2: And what tradition is that? Over eating, having uncomfortable political 356 00:19:39,119 --> 00:19:41,760 Speaker 2: conversations with those relatives you only see once a year, 357 00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:42,240 Speaker 2: Thank god? 358 00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:46,680 Speaker 1: What what is it? Neither of those? Unfortunately or fortunately, 359 00:19:46,920 --> 00:19:51,440 Speaker 1: I'm talking about the Macy's Thanksgiving Day parade. So puppeteer 360 00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:56,119 Speaker 1: named Tony sarg designed the original Thanksgiving Day parade balloons. 361 00:19:56,440 --> 00:19:58,879 Speaker 2: Oh I guess those are kind of like skypuppets. 362 00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:01,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's exact what they are. So the first parade 363 00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:05,560 Speaker 1: floats didn't even float. They were filled with oxygen instead 364 00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:08,320 Speaker 1: of helium, so Macy's employees had to carry them through 365 00:20:08,359 --> 00:20:11,000 Speaker 1: the streets of New York City. But this guy, Tony 366 00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:15,680 Speaker 1: Sarg was an extremely influential puppeteer. He's actually sometimes referred 367 00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:18,240 Speaker 1: to as the father of modern puppetry in North America. 368 00:20:18,359 --> 00:20:22,040 Speaker 1: But he used his puppetary skills in some really idiosycratic ways. 369 00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:25,159 Speaker 2: Yeah, like designing parade floats for a department store. 370 00:20:25,359 --> 00:20:29,080 Speaker 1: That's kind of weird, but also pranks. So he once 371 00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:32,840 Speaker 1: orchestrated an elaborate hoax in Nantucket where he tricked locals 372 00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:36,000 Speaker 1: into thinking there was this sea monster on the loose. 373 00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:40,640 Speaker 1: He staged all these fake sea monster sightings and had 374 00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:43,760 Speaker 1: his daughter plant giant footprints in the sand, and in 375 00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:46,400 Speaker 1: the end he revealed that the sea monster was actually 376 00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:49,480 Speaker 1: one of his Thanksgiving Day parade floats. 377 00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:51,760 Speaker 2: I love that he got his daughter in on this too. 378 00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:54,280 Speaker 2: It was like he had to implicate his child. 379 00:20:56,040 --> 00:20:58,960 Speaker 1: And that he's still promoting Thanksgiving Day parades like he's 380 00:20:59,040 --> 00:20:59,919 Speaker 1: really dedicated. 381 00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:02,440 Speaker 2: I love it. It all comes back to that, well 382 00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:06,960 Speaker 2: Tony Sarg, shout out to you, master puppeteer, master prankster Mango. 383 00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:09,520 Speaker 2: I am so thankful you shared that fact that I'm 384 00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:11,280 Speaker 2: going to give this episode trophy to you. 385 00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:16,160 Speaker 1: Well, I am thankful for your thankfulness. 386 00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:21,320 Speaker 2: You know what I'm thankful that you're thankful for my thankfulness. 387 00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:25,359 Speaker 1: I feel like we're gonna get stuck in a gratitude loop. 388 00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:28,600 Speaker 1: We should wrap things up right now. So that is 389 00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:31,120 Speaker 1: it for today. We'll be back next week. Be sure 390 00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:34,280 Speaker 1: to subscribe on your favorite podcast app if you haven't already, 391 00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:37,119 Speaker 1: And if you enjoyed this episode, share it with a friend. 392 00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:39,600 Speaker 1: Nothing says I'm thinking about you like a bunch of 393 00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:42,240 Speaker 1: fun puppet facts. Is that right, Mary? 394 00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:43,920 Speaker 2: That is absolutely right. 395 00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:47,720 Speaker 1: This episode was written by the wonderful Anna Green. Thank 396 00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:51,119 Speaker 1: you so much, Anna, and from Will, Dylan, Gabe, Mary, 397 00:21:51,240 --> 00:22:08,080 Speaker 1: and myself, Thank you so much for listening. Part Time 398 00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:11,920 Speaker 1: Genius is a production of Kaleidoscope and iHeartRadio. This show 399 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:15,959 Speaker 1: is hosted by Will Pearson and Me Mongish Heatikler and 400 00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:20,320 Speaker 1: research by our good pal Mary Philip Sandy. Today's episode 401 00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:23,359 Speaker 1: was engineered and produced by the wonderful Dylan Fagan with 402 00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:26,920 Speaker 1: support from Tyler Klang. The show is executive produced for 403 00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:30,720 Speaker 1: iHeart by Katrina Norvel and Ali Perry, with social media 404 00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:34,840 Speaker 1: support from Sasha Gay, trustee Dara Potts and Viney Shorey. 405 00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:40,000 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from Kaleidoscope and iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio, app, 406 00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:56,560 Speaker 1: Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.