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Speaker 1: The Book of Joe Podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: Hey Dary, welcome back. It's the latest episode of the

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Speaker 1: Book of Joe Podcast with me, Tom Berducci and of

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Speaker 1: course Joe Madden and Joe. We got a special guest today.

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Speaker 1: One of your former players is here. We're going all

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Speaker 1: the way back, though. When I say former players, to

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Speaker 1: your first managing job and the first of his forty

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Speaker 1: three seasons in professional baseball, I'm talking about the nineteen

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Speaker 1: eighty two Salem Angels of the Northwest League and Mike Rizzo. Mike,

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Speaker 1: I know you've won World championships with the Diamondbacks in

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Speaker 1: the front office with the Nationals as President of Baseball

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Speaker 1: Operations and general manager. But I'm sure your career highlight

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Speaker 1: is that summer playing for the Salem Angels and Joe Maddenda.

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Speaker 2: Past didn't we jell was It was a fun season.

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Speaker 2: It was my indoctrination to professional baseball. I was a

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Speaker 2: nervous from Chicago and got hooked up with a great

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Speaker 2: skipper who was young and energetic and a little crazy himself.

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Speaker 2: And it was a nice ride to the championship in

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Speaker 2: my first World Series ring. It was fun.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we had a great time, and that was really

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Speaker 3: an interesting summer. And I know you probably don't maybe

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Speaker 3: remember this, but we beat of course, we beat Metford.

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Speaker 3: The Metford Athletics were like the fifty three and seventeen

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Speaker 3: or something like that. Going into the playoffs, we were

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Speaker 3: thirty four and thirty six, two games under five hundred

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Speaker 3: two different divisions obviously, and we Kirk McCastle and Arbano

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Speaker 3: Lugo pitched two great games. But one of the things

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Speaker 3: was Riz. Remember we played there during the season. We

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Speaker 3: had a bad game, you're playing first base, had a

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Speaker 3: tough day, and the writer there, whoever the writer was,

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Speaker 3: the local journalist, really highly criticized us in the newspaper

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Speaker 3: and I really took an umbradge to that. I was

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Speaker 3: offended by this and actually threatened the guy afterwards that

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Speaker 3: I got a call from the league president because he

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Speaker 3: such skating stuff about my rookie league club. So that's

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Speaker 3: what I remember. Also, it was a great year, full

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Speaker 3: of personalities. Like you're talking about, We played great. We

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Speaker 3: had uh Mark maclamore and Kevin Davis up the middle,

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Speaker 3: seventeen year old middle infielders. Riz was of course one

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Speaker 3: of the veteran group. He was this one of the

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Speaker 3: stage members of the team that kept things loose and irrelevant.

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Speaker 3: So it was it was really it was one of

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Speaker 3: my funnest summers as a as a baseball manager, as

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Speaker 3: a baseball person.

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Speaker 4: Was that great.

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Speaker 1: Well, Mike, you mentioned that you thought your skipper was

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Speaker 1: a little bit crazy. Give us an insight on what

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Speaker 1: a young Joe Madden was like as a manager.

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Speaker 2: Well, he was. He was young. That was the first

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Speaker 2: thing that struck me. You know, he was. I think

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Speaker 2: you were like three or four years older than than

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Speaker 2: some of the players on the team. And you know,

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Speaker 2: I think you were, you know, you were cutting your

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Speaker 2: teeth as a as a manager at the time. You

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Speaker 2: I know, you scouted an area and then managed half

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Speaker 2: the in the half a club. So it was fun

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Speaker 2: kind of like growing together. And you know, I was,

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Speaker 2: you know, I was a clueless kid at the time.

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Speaker 2: Obviously I was twenty one years old and uh and

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Speaker 2: you had all the answers and until you don't have them,

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Speaker 2: And it was it was an interesting It was an

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Speaker 2: interesting dynamics. See all all these different personalities from all

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Speaker 2: over the world, all over the country kind of getting

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Speaker 2: together for one common goal and we were below five hundred.

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Speaker 2: But I remember we we we got hot at the

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Speaker 2: right time and we we took we took that into

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Speaker 2: uh into the playoffs and beat a really you know,

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Speaker 2: really accomplished Oakland A's minor league team, and UH, I

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Speaker 2: remember my favorite, my favorite memory is the trip back

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Speaker 2: and uh but we were on we were on the

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Speaker 2: bus and uh we were busting it back and we

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Speaker 2: we had a blast and it was you know, kind

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Speaker 2: of the first the first taste of of what what

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Speaker 2: success is in professional baseball. And uh, I'll never forget

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Speaker 2: the Uh, I'll never forget the euphoria that that we had,

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Speaker 2: you know, on the field and in a visitors ballpark,

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Speaker 2: and then and then taking it on a bus and

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Speaker 2: and you know, driving that long trip home that seemed

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Speaker 2: like it went in five minutes, It was probably five hours.

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Speaker 3: We celebrated that night at the hotel swimming pool, and

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Speaker 3: then there was a lot of adult beverages consumed and eventually,

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Speaker 3: like you said, on the road, right back, Kirk mccaskell,

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Speaker 3: Captain Kirk, he's getting up the bus in Salmon. It's

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Speaker 3: probably like I don't know, two TV cameras and whatever

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Speaker 3: that's a little bit concerned. I said, listen, put your

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Speaker 3: sunglasses on and keep them on as you get out

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Speaker 3: there and talk to people.

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Speaker 4: It was hysterical.

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Speaker 3: We had a great time and it was with the

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Speaker 3: culmination of a really, really fun summer.

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Speaker 1: Well, Mike, I know you come from a great baseball background,

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Speaker 1: third generation scout. Of course, your dad was in the

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Speaker 1: Phil Rizzo, the inaugural class of the Pro Scouts Hall

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Speaker 1: of Fame. So take me back to when, first of all,

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Speaker 1: the Angels drafted you out of high school. He's back

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Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy nine, twenty eighth round pick by the Angels.

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Speaker 1: What was your thinking then, what was the thought for

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Speaker 1: you about entering professional baseball?

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Speaker 2: Well, Joe and I have another common ally is the

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Speaker 2: scout who signed both of us as the same scout, Nick,

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Speaker 2: the late great Nick Kenzick, who was a was an

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Speaker 2: Angel Mount Rushmore piece, in my opinion, over there with

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Speaker 2: the with the California Angels. So I drafted out of

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Speaker 2: high school, wasn't ready to play pro ball obviously, and

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Speaker 2: went on to college. And then three years later Nick

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Speaker 2: drafted me again and got an opportunity to play three

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Speaker 2: great years in the minor leagues. It was some of

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Speaker 2: the most fun times in my in my life. And uh,

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Speaker 2: you know, we talk about the grind, and you know

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Speaker 2: how tough it is to play in the minor leagues.

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Speaker 2: I loved it. I loved the bus rides. I love

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Speaker 2: the common the camaraderie with the with the other players,

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Speaker 2: and uh and uh just uh, you know, just the

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Speaker 2: idea of playing baseball for a living was was something

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Speaker 2: that really appealed to me. I loved it, and I

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Speaker 2: was bit by the baseball bug early in my life,

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Speaker 2: and I knew I was gonna that was gonna be

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Speaker 2: my career path. It took a detour when uh, you know,

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Speaker 2: the league tells you that you don't belong in the

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Speaker 2: big leagues, and the league told me early in my

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Speaker 2: career I didn't belonging there. But I still wanted to

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Speaker 2: have a career in major league baseball, so I took it.

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Speaker 2: I took a different path, but it was it was

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Speaker 2: a path that it's been very fruitful for me, and

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Speaker 2: baseball's giving me everything I have in life.

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Speaker 1: Mike, let me ask you real quick about that fork

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Speaker 1: in the road, because you know, Joe and I have

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Speaker 1: written about this extensively. When that moment comes when you

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Speaker 1: love a game so much and somebody tells you you're

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Speaker 1: not good enough to play anymore. You mentioned three years

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Speaker 1: your third year? Was it with Redwood in nineteen eighty four.

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Speaker 1: How did you get the word that, you know, Mike Rizzo,

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Speaker 1: you may have to try something else because playing is

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Speaker 1: not working out for you. And what was that like?

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Speaker 2: Well, it was It was shocking to me. You know.

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Speaker 2: I guess I was a bad self evaluator. But I

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Speaker 2: remember to call I got from Billy benac Joe. You

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Speaker 2: remember Billy. Oh, yeah, he gave you a call. He

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Speaker 2: was the farm director at the time and said, hey, Riz.

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Speaker 2: He said, we're gonna let you go, and said all

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Speaker 2: the right things and was very kind about it, was

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Speaker 2: very complimentary about it as he as he released me,

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Speaker 2: and I thought he was I thought they were making

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Speaker 2: a mistake, you know. I told him, I said, you know,

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Speaker 2: you know, I'm going to make it to the big

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Speaker 2: leagues and I'm going to stick it to you every

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Speaker 2: time we get there, and blah blah blah blah blah.

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Speaker 2: And then soon after after, I you know, after I

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Speaker 2: calmed down a little bit, my dad grabbed me, who

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Speaker 2: was you know, a nine year minor league player in

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Speaker 2: his day, and then in a long time scout and

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Speaker 2: baseball guy kind of sat me down and really gave

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Speaker 2: me the real information about what it takes to get

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Speaker 2: to the big leagues and that you know, he didn't

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Speaker 2: feel that I had the skills to do it, but

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Speaker 2: you can make a great living in this thing. I've

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Speaker 2: got a lot to offer to the game. And you know,

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Speaker 2: you could be a manager or a front office person,

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Speaker 2: you know, if you want to be. And and that

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Speaker 2: was that was my next decision because I was going

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Speaker 2: to hook on with another team. Another team offered me

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Speaker 2: a contract to play in the minor leagues, in the

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Speaker 2: low low A ball level, and he told me, said, hey,

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Speaker 2: you could kick around this thing for years and you know,

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Speaker 2: be a baseball bump like I was nine years in

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Speaker 2: and it couldn't you know, you don't provide for your

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Speaker 2: family because you don't make any money obviously in the

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Speaker 2: minor leagues, or you could take another route. And you know,

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Speaker 2: with that conversation, I decided that it was time to

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Speaker 2: stay in the game. But I finished my education at

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Speaker 2: University of Illinois, which was a promise I made to

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Speaker 2: my mom. When I signed, and very fortunate that while

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Speaker 2: I was at University Illinois, the scouting director who signed

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Speaker 2: me at the time, Larry Hines, became the general manager

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Speaker 2: of the White Sox and remembered me through Nick Hamsick

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Speaker 2: and offered me a scouting job with the White Sox,

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Speaker 2: which was the start of my post playing career.

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Speaker 4: That is so much good stuff right there for me.

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Speaker 3: I mean, like a lot of he's mentioning people, Tommy

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Speaker 3: and I've spoken about from Larry.

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Speaker 4: To your pop to Nikki.

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Speaker 3: The thing that I love and the reason why I

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Speaker 3: think you've been so successful is because you got involved

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Speaker 3: in scouting so soon, so early in your career. That's

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Speaker 3: what people don't quite understand anymore. And I don't even know,

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Speaker 3: Michael to the extent that how many scouts teams have

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Speaker 3: on the road, because when we came up, it was

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Speaker 3: the lifeblood of the organization, there's no question. And the

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Speaker 3: scouts you're talking about are iconic and those are the

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Speaker 3: guys that taught me. I mean, I had some wonderful

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Speaker 3: and obviously the reason why I was able to do

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Speaker 3: it I did as a coach and the manager was

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Speaker 3: because of all the guys on the field. But the

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Speaker 3: scouts man got me first and right from Nicki. With

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Speaker 3: Nicki Kamsick, you used to stop in the Quad City,

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Speaker 3: take you out for beer, try to pump you up

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Speaker 3: a little bit. Love nick from the point he signed

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Speaker 3: me at the Broadview Hotel and which would talk Kansas

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Speaker 3: back in seventy five. But you learn so much from

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Speaker 3: these guys, and if you learn how to scout, you

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Speaker 3: really understand the game well, the ability to really contribute

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Speaker 3: just by your brain and your ability to see things

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Speaker 3: and transmit them to others.

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Speaker 4: And this is the reason why groups are successful. To me,

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Speaker 4: when it comes.

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Speaker 3: Down analytics, the biggest or the most important part of

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Speaker 3: analytics to me is acquisitional off season stuff. That's when

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Speaker 3: that's when I really as if I were in that position,

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Speaker 3: would really utilize the numbers and analytics to really compare

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Speaker 3: and contrast different players and make it augment my scouting department,

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Speaker 3: not just replace it.

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Speaker 4: But that's just getting to.

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Speaker 3: The point is that I believe that scouting not spoken

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Speaker 3: about enough. The guys that are really true icons in

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Speaker 3: the game not spoken about enough. That is the reason

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Speaker 3: why the game was great, and they gave me my

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Speaker 3: opportunity and those are the guys that really taught.

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Speaker 2: Me, no question. And I think the teams that do

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Speaker 2: it best now are a good blend and a good balance.

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Speaker 2: They marry the analytics with the human element, and I

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Speaker 2: think that those are the teams that are most successful.

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Speaker 2: I think it's still a vital part of our process here.

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Speaker 2: You know, we have people see players and utilize all

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Speaker 2: the data and all the video that we can to

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Speaker 2: supplement that. But I'll tell you one thing. I was

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Speaker 2: just talking about this with ownership the other day. It

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Speaker 2: was that you know you're at the trade deadline, and

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Speaker 2: you know things are coming fast at you. And when

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Speaker 2: you have a scouts report from scout that you trust,

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Speaker 2: a Casey mckeeon and Dan Jennings, Steve Varniery, one of

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Speaker 2: these one of these great guys that know the game,

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Speaker 2: Chris Klein, who you and I love and know for forever.

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Speaker 2: When when those guys have a report on you and

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Speaker 2: they stamp a guy that they like that you, it

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Speaker 2: gives me a great assurance that I feel comfortable taking

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Speaker 2: this player in a trade. But when you're going just

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Speaker 2: on video or just on on analytical data and numbers,

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Speaker 2: it gives me a trepidation to to really pull the trigger.

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Speaker 2: But when I get the blend of both and we

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Speaker 2: marry both of them and both of them are saying

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Speaker 2: kind of the same thing, those are the ones that

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Speaker 2: I say, well, that's the trade I want to make.

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Speaker 1: That's interesting, Mike, because I was going to ask you,

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Speaker 1: and hopefully you have some background on this, the trade

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Speaker 1: involving the San Diego Padres and Juan Soto in August second,

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty two. It's very rare for me in my

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Speaker 1: memory when I when I see a team that needs

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Speaker 1: to trade an impact player for contractual reasons or whatever.

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Speaker 1: Very rare the teams do well. It's hard to get

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Speaker 1: equal value when you've got anything close to equal value

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Speaker 1: when you've got a talent like a Wan Soto. But

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Speaker 1: I use your trade there with San Diego as an

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Speaker 1: example of identifying the right players, and that is putting

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Speaker 1: the Nationals back on track here to contention, a lot

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Speaker 1: quicker than otherwise would have happened. Just to refresh people's mind,

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Speaker 1: you traded Mon Soto and Josh Bell for Robert Hassel

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Speaker 1: the Third, Hardlein, Susana cj Abrams, Mackenzie Gore, Luke Voight,

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Speaker 1: and James Wood Mike, give us an idea of the

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Speaker 1: process that went into that trade. I know it wasn't

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Speaker 1: something that was done you know, off the back of

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Speaker 1: the envelope in the last hour you mentioned this, Goalt,

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Speaker 1: tell me the information you were looking for? What sold

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Speaker 1: you on those particular players.

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Speaker 2: Well, you know, we had an iconic player, like you

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Speaker 2: said that that had two and a half years of

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Speaker 2: control for a team and you know which is you know,

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Speaker 2: translates to me as three playoff runs for the team

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Speaker 2: that acquires them. The great part of the trade which

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Speaker 2: made it possible for us to acquire the tie of

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Speaker 2: talent that we did, was we didn't have to trade

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Speaker 2: and that was probably the most important levers that that

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Speaker 2: I had, and it was it was it was a

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Speaker 2: true statement that we were going to make this trade

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Speaker 2: UH that made sense for us, or we were going

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Speaker 2: to keep one Soto And so I think that that

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Speaker 2: really aided me and UH and being aggressive with with

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Speaker 2: a handful of teams that really at the end of

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Speaker 2: the day we were there were there was really only three,

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Speaker 2: three or four teams at the end of the day

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Speaker 2: that were that had the players that had the the

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Speaker 2: incentive that were aggressive enough to to really talk about

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Speaker 2: this trade and and to you know, get into the

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Speaker 2: weeds with who you're going to take and that type

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Speaker 2: of thing. And uh, and you know it ended up

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Speaker 2: being you know, San Diego was the team that was

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Speaker 2: most aggressive. I gave ownership and a j Preller credit.

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Speaker 2: They went after it and and and acquired a lot

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Speaker 2: of good talent that made it possible to get one Soto.

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Speaker 2: And you know, at the end of the day, we

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Speaker 2: leaned hard on our scouts, our analytical people. We put

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Speaker 2: together a nice blueprint and a nice plan to acquire

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Speaker 2: the players that we had to acquire to make the trade.

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Speaker 2: And at the end of the day, uh, when uh,

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Speaker 2: when we added Josh Bell to the deal, and and

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Speaker 2: uh Susannah was thrown into the deal because of that,

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Speaker 2: then then uh, we both sides felt comfortable that they

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Speaker 2: were acquiring the people that they needed to acquire to

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Speaker 2: get this deal done.

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Speaker 1: That's pretty cool, especially a guy like James Wood Mike,

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Speaker 1: when you when you have someone who's that young and

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Speaker 1: obviously great physical ability, but I mean, we see him

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Speaker 1: in the big league level now we realize there's a

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Speaker 1: lot more in the tank there. He hasn't even filled

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Speaker 1: out yet. What jumped out to you your scouts at

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Speaker 1: that time, and was he someone you had to have

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Speaker 1: in the deal?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? There was, there was you know five the four

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Speaker 2: players that we we that we acquired, Gore, Abrams, Hassle

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Speaker 2: and would they were must must have in the in

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Speaker 2: the one soda portion of it. And then when uh,

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Speaker 2: when we we had discovered we had just discovered you know,

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Speaker 2: luck or chance or hard work or whatever that Susannah

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Speaker 2: was pitching that he was just a rookie ball guy

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Speaker 2: in the Arizona Rookie League. And we happened to have

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Speaker 2: a scout down there because we were you know, we

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Speaker 2: had we had really blanketed that the Padres organization and

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Speaker 2: we saw this young kid, I think at the time

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Speaker 2: it was probably seventeen or eighteen year old kid and

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Speaker 2: he was in the backfield below in about one hundred,

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Speaker 2: one hundred and two miles an hour. Got a call

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Speaker 2: from the scout as we were negotiating this this this

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Speaker 2: deal and said, you know, this is a this is

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Speaker 2: a must have throw in type of guy at the

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Speaker 2: end there and went to aj about it, and obviously

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Speaker 2: that they became too expensive for him. To put in

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Speaker 2: a guy like Susannah. So we added Josh Bell to

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Speaker 2: the deal, and he had a Susannah and then and

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Speaker 2: then we got a deal. But Woodsy is a he's

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Speaker 2: a mega talent that that is just scratching the surface.

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Speaker 2: He's he's got the he's got the offensive skill that

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Speaker 2: I think is is most important to a young hitter

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Speaker 2: is that he has command of the strike zone. He

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Speaker 2: knows the strike zone, he rarely goes outside of it,

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Speaker 2: and he makes makes good heart contact with the ball

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Speaker 2: in the zone. You know, he's a big exit velocity guy,

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Speaker 2: and you know, he hits the ball hard, and he's

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Speaker 2: got great leverage with his swing, and he goes first

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Speaker 2: to third and he goes home to third. Joe, he

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Speaker 2: reminds me of the strikes that Devon White had when

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Speaker 2: he was back with us. This guy just lopes up

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Speaker 2: out there. He doesn't look like he's he's gaining ground,

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Speaker 2: but he is. He's chewing up turf and he's an

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Speaker 2: elite runner. Now we throw him in left field. He's

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Speaker 2: never never really played left field before and h and

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Speaker 2: he's learning the position at the big league level along

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Speaker 2: with you know, how to hit and how to survive

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Speaker 2: in the big leagues.

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Speaker 3: My observation just listening to you talk about this year,

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Speaker 3: you just you said it earlier, your process including both

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Speaker 3: old school and new school methods, and you're the way

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Speaker 3: you're going blending back back and forth regarding your description

352
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Speaker 3: of him, indicates that you truly know what you believe

353
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Speaker 3: in what you know because you're talking about the first,

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Speaker 3: the third, the strides, the loping strides of Devon White,

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Speaker 3: but then you're also mentioning the exit velocity. That's to me,

356
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Speaker 3: that's the true essence of what needs to be done

357
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Speaker 3: right now. Just can't be one sided. And that's that's

358
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Speaker 3: why I appreciate it. Your your method from the moment

359
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Speaker 3: you went on uh with the Diamondbacks. I remember talking

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Speaker 3: to you out in Arizona one time, we just saw

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Speaker 3: each other, maybe in a hallway. I was so proud

362
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Speaker 3: and happy for you. And then eventually get this job,

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00:17:34,958 --> 00:17:37,358
Speaker 3: you and Davut win the World Series. But that's the

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Speaker 3: thing that I think is not it's talked about often,

365
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Speaker 3: but not necessarily happening where there's a blend going on,

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Speaker 3: and I think that's that's the true way to get

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Speaker 3: this thing properly done and I respect how you got there,

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Speaker 3: and I respect, uh, you know, the path that you've taken,

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Speaker 3: because again, when you talk about things like this, you're

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Speaker 3: not just saying it to say it.

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Speaker 4: You've actually lived these different things.

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Speaker 3: You've lived bus rides, you've lived being with your daddy

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Speaker 3: and Nicky Camsick, and then again you you've accumulated and

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Speaker 3: acquired a really good analytical team there in Washington, and

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Speaker 3: then you blended together. So I like your description because

376
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Speaker 3: it does just like you had spoken about, it does

377
00:18:13,158 --> 00:18:16,358
Speaker 3: blend together both old and new school tenants, which I

378
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Speaker 3: believe is the right way to do this right.

379
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Speaker 2: Well, I think I think any good leader, Joe tom

380
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Speaker 2: is you know, is I think that you have to

381
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Speaker 2: know yourself and know your strengths and weaknesses. And I

382
00:18:28,598 --> 00:18:31,998
Speaker 2: know what my strengths are. You know, I'm comfortable and confident.

383
00:18:32,238 --> 00:18:35,038
Speaker 2: I know baseball, I know players. But you know, when

384
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Speaker 2: I'm calling my teeth at this job is I'm almost

385
00:18:37,318 --> 00:18:41,478
Speaker 2: I'm always a GM now for eighteen years. I've been

386
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Speaker 2: with the team since since you know, day one, and

387
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Speaker 2: I need to surround myself with guys not like me,

388
00:18:48,198 --> 00:18:51,158
Speaker 2: that are that had skill sets that I don't have.

389
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Speaker 2: So so we you know, we put together an analytical team.

390
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Speaker 2: We've we've got some of the smartest, sharpest men and

391
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Speaker 2: women in the game and everywhere from M I. T

392
00:19:02,558 --> 00:19:05,878
Speaker 2: To Harvard and Universe, Maryland and everywhere in between. And

393
00:19:06,078 --> 00:19:08,798
Speaker 2: I think that, uh that you know, what what we

394
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Speaker 2: do here is to work for me. Even even if

395
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Speaker 2: you're an analytical genius, you have to have respect for

396
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Speaker 2: the game of baseball and for the people out out

397
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Speaker 2: in the field. And uh, because I always say player development,

398
00:19:20,078 --> 00:19:23,478
Speaker 2: guys in the minor leagues and scouts, scouts driving the

399
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Speaker 2: highways and that type of stuff. You know, they're they're

400
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Speaker 2: the unsung heroes. They don't get paid enough. They don't

401
00:19:28,238 --> 00:19:30,558
Speaker 2: they don't get enough accolades and that type of thing.

402
00:19:30,598 --> 00:19:33,278
Speaker 2: And without them, we are nothing. And uh there you

403
00:19:33,318 --> 00:19:35,958
Speaker 2: can't feel a championship team without them. That's what I

404
00:19:36,038 --> 00:19:38,238
Speaker 2: said on the podium when I was lifting the trophy.

405
00:19:38,278 --> 00:19:40,758
Speaker 2: This is for all the you know, the coaches, uh,

406
00:19:40,958 --> 00:19:43,438
Speaker 2: pounding fungos to a to a guy in a ball

407
00:19:43,518 --> 00:19:46,838
Speaker 2: and for all the scouts, uh, you know, driving through Kansas,

408
00:19:46,878 --> 00:19:48,438
Speaker 2: you know, to you know, three hundred miles to get

409
00:19:48,478 --> 00:19:51,598
Speaker 2: to the next game. Without you guys, that we don't.

410
00:19:51,718 --> 00:19:54,278
Speaker 2: You know, we don't have the Rendons in the Strasbourgs

411
00:19:54,318 --> 00:19:56,838
Speaker 2: and the Sures of the world because there's nobody there

412
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Speaker 2: to see them and and nobody there to scout them

413
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Speaker 2: and sign them. And uh and it's uh, it's something

414
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Speaker 2: that we've incorporated with our club. There's there's a mutual

415
00:20:05,118 --> 00:20:08,838
Speaker 2: respect for numbers and and for and for people and

416
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Speaker 2: uh and we can't forget this is a people's game

417
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Speaker 2: and uh. And the players are what it's all about.

418
00:20:15,038 --> 00:20:18,558
Speaker 2: And the players make us win and lose. And you know,

419
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Speaker 2: we can coach as much as we want, we can

420
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Speaker 2: manage as much as we want, and GM as much

421
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Speaker 2: as you want. Without the players, we have nothing. So

422
00:20:25,478 --> 00:20:28,278
Speaker 2: uh and without the scouts and the player development guys,

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Speaker 2: it's it's hard to develop these guys into into championship

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Speaker 2: caliber people.

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Speaker 3: Leadership being about empowerment, leadership not being about control.

426
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Speaker 4: And that's what you're describing to me right there.

427
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Speaker 3: I think too, in today's world, the word leader or

428
00:20:42,478 --> 00:20:44,598
Speaker 3: leadership has been confused with control.

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Speaker 4: And I like that.

430
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Speaker 3: I mean, everything you're describing it doesn't surprise me whatsoever

431
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Speaker 3: based on your background, but I think that's that's been

432
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Speaker 3: been confused more lately, where leadership needs to be about

433
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Speaker 3: empowering the group. If you hire somebody to do a job,

434
00:20:57,038 --> 00:20:59,438
Speaker 3: let them do their job and not try to control

435
00:20:59,438 --> 00:21:01,758
Speaker 3: what they do and their outputs. So again, I mean,

436
00:21:01,798 --> 00:21:04,158
Speaker 3: that doesn't surprise me because of like I said, where

437
00:21:04,158 --> 00:21:06,838
Speaker 3: you come from. But I do appreciate that explanation because

438
00:21:06,878 --> 00:21:08,198
Speaker 3: I can't agree with you more.

439
00:21:08,478 --> 00:21:11,078
Speaker 1: Joe, I'm sure you realize pretty quickly back in eighty two,

440
00:21:11,158 --> 00:21:15,038
Speaker 1: what a competitive guy Mike Rizzo is. I have to

441
00:21:15,078 --> 00:21:18,398
Speaker 1: ask him, because this is the only guy I know

442
00:21:18,438 --> 00:21:22,038
Speaker 1: who's been ejected from a Major League baseball game from

443
00:21:22,038 --> 00:21:24,918
Speaker 1: his suite in the upper deck. We will ask him

444
00:21:24,958 --> 00:21:40,278
Speaker 1: about that right after this short break. We are speaking

445
00:21:40,318 --> 00:21:43,438
Speaker 1: with Mike Rizzo, president of Baseball Operations and general manager

446
00:21:43,438 --> 00:21:46,398
Speaker 1: of the Washington Nationals, And as I mentioned, the only

447
00:21:46,438 --> 00:21:49,118
Speaker 1: man I know is ejected from a baseball game for

448
00:21:49,278 --> 00:21:52,078
Speaker 1: arguing with an umpire from his spot in his suite.

449
00:21:52,118 --> 00:21:54,918
Speaker 1: Of course, this is twenty twenty, nobody's in the stands,

450
00:21:55,318 --> 00:21:59,798
Speaker 1: and the umpire is, of course, Joe West. So Mike,

451
00:22:00,198 --> 00:22:02,198
Speaker 1: you got to tell me the story behind this one,

452
00:22:02,238 --> 00:22:04,878
Speaker 1: because I can't quite think else quite like it.

453
00:22:05,238 --> 00:22:07,238
Speaker 2: Well, you know, you know, Joe's in that kund of

454
00:22:07,318 --> 00:22:10,678
Speaker 2: umpire and think umpired more games than anybody in the

455
00:22:10,758 --> 00:22:13,758
Speaker 2: in the history of baseball. And it was it was

456
00:22:13,758 --> 00:22:17,358
Speaker 2: that weird twenty twenty season which I hated with a passion.

457
00:22:18,158 --> 00:22:20,758
Speaker 2: Just nobody into ballpark. It was like it was like

458
00:22:21,518 --> 00:22:25,158
Speaker 2: it was like, you know, big time instructional league games,

459
00:22:24,878 --> 00:22:27,958
Speaker 2: because you could hear the crack of the bath, the

460
00:22:28,038 --> 00:22:30,358
Speaker 2: echoes and the dugouts, you know, people's you know, people

461
00:22:30,518 --> 00:22:33,358
Speaker 2: you know, saying stuff. So I was in the third

462
00:22:33,478 --> 00:22:37,918
Speaker 2: deck of in Atlanta. I had to be eight hundred

463
00:22:37,958 --> 00:22:40,998
Speaker 2: one thousand feet away from home plate, and you know,

464
00:22:40,998 --> 00:22:43,358
Speaker 2: I'm in a suite by myself. I've got the TV,

465
00:22:43,598 --> 00:22:45,438
Speaker 2: you know, right above me, so I know that I

466
00:22:45,518 --> 00:22:48,478
Speaker 2: know where the strike zone is. And things was up

467
00:22:48,518 --> 00:22:50,718
Speaker 2: and it was in it was like the fourth inning

468
00:22:50,798 --> 00:22:53,518
Speaker 2: or something of a midweek game or something like that.

469
00:22:53,558 --> 00:22:56,598
Speaker 2: It wasn't any kind of big situation. And I think

470
00:22:56,638 --> 00:22:59,558
Speaker 2: Hunter Wendlstart was up in the plate and he called

471
00:22:59,598 --> 00:23:01,878
Speaker 2: a pitch a strike, and it was it was way

472
00:23:01,958 --> 00:23:03,918
Speaker 2: way outside his own and I've got, like I said,

473
00:23:03,958 --> 00:23:05,918
Speaker 2: and I've got the strikes on right here. So I

474
00:23:06,038 --> 00:23:09,598
Speaker 2: yelled from one thousand feet away. You know, the word brutal,

475
00:23:09,998 --> 00:23:14,478
Speaker 2: probably very loud. And all of a sudden, they're pointing,

476
00:23:14,478 --> 00:23:18,358
Speaker 2: they're pointing up somewhere up around me, and uh and

477
00:23:18,398 --> 00:23:21,638
Speaker 2: they they said that, they said I was I was

478
00:23:21,638 --> 00:23:23,838
Speaker 2: ejected from the from the game or from the park.

479
00:23:23,958 --> 00:23:25,998
Speaker 2: Of course I wouldn't leave. So we had a little

480
00:23:26,038 --> 00:23:28,678
Speaker 2: delay there and they wanted me to leave the park.

481
00:23:28,718 --> 00:23:31,318
Speaker 2: I refused to leave, so the game went on being

482
00:23:31,438 --> 00:23:33,998
Speaker 2: five minutes later and I stayed there. So I don't

483
00:23:33,998 --> 00:23:36,838
Speaker 2: know what the what the all the hubbub was about,

484
00:23:36,838 --> 00:23:41,118
Speaker 2: but it was. It was It was interesting that that

485
00:23:41,558 --> 00:23:43,558
Speaker 2: I got ejected from a game, but it wasn't It

486
00:23:43,598 --> 00:23:46,158
Speaker 2: wasn't my first May it probably won't be my last.

487
00:23:46,718 --> 00:23:48,838
Speaker 4: Just quickly too. And Riza, he and I talk about

488
00:23:48,838 --> 00:23:49,518
Speaker 4: this all the time.

489
00:23:49,558 --> 00:23:53,278
Speaker 3: At first season with the Salem Angels at Chameka, the

490
00:23:53,358 --> 00:23:56,118
Speaker 3: field he started to fight at home played against the

491
00:23:56,118 --> 00:23:59,318
Speaker 3: ben Phillies. That was outstanding. It ended up everybody was

492
00:23:59,358 --> 00:24:02,278
Speaker 3: pressed against the backstop. I don't even remember how long

493
00:24:02,318 --> 00:24:04,598
Speaker 3: it went on play at the plate. I can remember

494
00:24:04,638 --> 00:24:07,158
Speaker 3: exactly how it unfolded. The Beast might have been there,

495
00:24:07,158 --> 00:24:08,918
Speaker 3: Doug Rivell might have been there to support you other

496
00:24:08,998 --> 00:24:09,638
Speaker 3: Chicago guy.

497
00:24:09,758 --> 00:24:12,878
Speaker 4: We were We were just full of Chicago guys because.

498
00:24:12,518 --> 00:24:15,438
Speaker 3: Of Nick and his pop. It was outstanding. These guys

499
00:24:15,478 --> 00:24:18,878
Speaker 3: are not afraid to fight. That this really great brawl,

500
00:24:19,118 --> 00:24:22,558
Speaker 3: a real one behind home plate. And I remember this

501
00:24:22,598 --> 00:24:24,878
Speaker 3: guy by named adam Ac I think playing for the Phillies.

502
00:24:24,918 --> 00:24:27,718
Speaker 4: It was like pressed up against the backstop. It was

503
00:24:27,758 --> 00:24:30,558
Speaker 4: so cool. And those are the kind of moments that

504
00:24:30,598 --> 00:24:32,878
Speaker 4: really galvanized the team. I really believe that. I'll argue

505
00:24:32,918 --> 00:24:35,678
Speaker 4: that with anybody, but I really appreciate it. And you're

506
00:24:35,718 --> 00:24:37,958
Speaker 4: talking about the fighting spirit of Michael. It says it

507
00:24:37,998 --> 00:24:39,238
Speaker 4: was obvious even back.

508
00:24:39,078 --> 00:24:42,758
Speaker 3: Then because he did not back off, and here both

509
00:24:42,758 --> 00:24:43,398
Speaker 3: benches empty.

510
00:24:43,438 --> 00:24:44,238
Speaker 4: It was outstanding.

511
00:24:44,598 --> 00:24:48,598
Speaker 2: I would like to abridge that this school a little bit.

512
00:24:48,718 --> 00:24:51,078
Speaker 2: And you keep saying I start. You keep saying I

513
00:24:51,158 --> 00:24:57,318
Speaker 2: started the fight. I finished the fight. They started. It

514
00:24:57,478 --> 00:24:59,118
Speaker 2: was starting at the collision at home plate.

515
00:24:59,238 --> 00:25:00,558
Speaker 4: And who wasn't the collision.

516
00:25:00,958 --> 00:25:04,038
Speaker 2: I think it was Govea, I'm not positive by I

517
00:25:04,038 --> 00:25:06,958
Speaker 2: think it might have been David who ran ran over

518
00:25:06,958 --> 00:25:09,358
Speaker 2: to catcher legal play and then and then as he

519
00:25:09,438 --> 00:25:12,198
Speaker 2: was walking to the dugout, the catcher was going going

520
00:25:12,238 --> 00:25:14,358
Speaker 2: to get him from behind and I was on deck

521
00:25:14,838 --> 00:25:16,678
Speaker 2: and I interceded.

522
00:25:16,758 --> 00:25:20,478
Speaker 4: That's well done.

523
00:25:20,598 --> 00:25:23,958
Speaker 3: Big enough to start a prite fight? Was tall skinny

524
00:25:23,958 --> 00:25:25,278
Speaker 3: guy from what north Ridge.

525
00:25:25,078 --> 00:25:28,918
Speaker 4: Cal State? Nor exactly exactly. I don't think.

526
00:25:28,958 --> 00:25:30,678
Speaker 3: I mean, he was a tall, skinny first baseman. I

527
00:25:30,718 --> 00:25:32,358
Speaker 3: don't think he was tough enough to start that.

528
00:25:32,598 --> 00:25:35,878
Speaker 1: Thank god you, Hey, Mike, one of your teammates that

529
00:25:35,958 --> 00:25:38,078
Speaker 1: we we bring up his name once in a while,

530
00:25:38,198 --> 00:25:40,838
Speaker 1: Jay Lewis. Do you ever know what happened to Jay Lewis?

531
00:25:41,718 --> 00:25:44,358
Speaker 2: Jay Lewis, Yeah, I do not know what happened to him,

532
00:25:44,398 --> 00:25:47,518
Speaker 2: but he was trying. He was a pretty player though

533
00:25:47,598 --> 00:25:49,158
Speaker 2: he was He was a pretty player.

534
00:25:49,358 --> 00:25:52,598
Speaker 3: That was one of what was our scouts name in

535
00:25:52,998 --> 00:25:57,358
Speaker 3: the Louisiana guy was yeah Texas Oklahoma, Texas Oklahoma, I

536
00:25:57,358 --> 00:26:00,678
Speaker 3: think was from j Bird was from Oklahoma. Lou Snip

537
00:26:00,758 --> 00:26:03,878
Speaker 3: Snippers signed him. It was one of the Snips guys.

538
00:26:04,038 --> 00:26:06,118
Speaker 3: And he had a bunch of those twos from the

539
00:26:06,238 --> 00:26:11,078
Speaker 3: junior colleges from Oklahoma, Northern Texas, Louisiana, et cetera. Nice

540
00:26:11,158 --> 00:26:15,078
Speaker 3: bodies and somewhat somewhat talented, but never never really quite

541
00:26:15,118 --> 00:26:15,438
Speaker 3: did it.

542
00:26:15,478 --> 00:26:17,918
Speaker 1: Hey, Mike, I want to ask you about this year,

543
00:26:17,958 --> 00:26:21,518
Speaker 1: you and your wife Jody, you established the Rizzo Family Foundation,

544
00:26:21,718 --> 00:26:24,198
Speaker 1: and a big part of that is the RIZK Kids Initiative,

545
00:26:24,638 --> 00:26:28,918
Speaker 1: which strives for educational equity for underserved children and families,

546
00:26:28,998 --> 00:26:33,598
Speaker 1: brands and scholarships. Tell me about where this idea came from, Mike, Well.

547
00:26:33,478 --> 00:26:35,598
Speaker 2: You know, we you know, like like I said earlier,

548
00:26:35,678 --> 00:26:37,958
Speaker 2: you know, I've been here in Washington, d C. Twenty years.

549
00:26:38,158 --> 00:26:41,838
Speaker 2: So I've made this my home. And as time goes on,

550
00:26:41,958 --> 00:26:45,078
Speaker 2: Mom passed, Dad. Dad passed right after the World Series.

551
00:26:45,078 --> 00:26:47,318
Speaker 2: The last game you ever saw Joe was Game seven

552
00:26:47,398 --> 00:26:50,158
Speaker 2: the World Series. Uh, so he got a happy man.

553
00:26:50,718 --> 00:26:53,318
Speaker 2: H and then and then, uh two years ago, my

554
00:26:53,398 --> 00:26:57,638
Speaker 2: sister passed away at ALS. So you know, as as

555
00:26:57,638 --> 00:27:00,638
Speaker 2: we're as Jody and I are sitting there, we're thinking

556
00:27:00,718 --> 00:27:03,678
Speaker 2: that you know, we've got you know, this game has

557
00:27:03,718 --> 00:27:06,238
Speaker 2: been right to me, and I've made a lot of

558
00:27:06,278 --> 00:27:09,278
Speaker 2: money doing doing what I'm doing, and you know it's

559
00:27:09,318 --> 00:27:11,598
Speaker 2: time to give something back and to leave a legacy

560
00:27:11,638 --> 00:27:15,718
Speaker 2: when I'm when I'm not the GM anymore of the nationals. Uh.

561
00:27:15,758 --> 00:27:17,598
Speaker 2: And we felt, what's what's a better way to do

562
00:27:17,638 --> 00:27:21,278
Speaker 2: it than put all our attention into the underprivileged young

563
00:27:21,478 --> 00:27:24,878
Speaker 2: people of Washington, d C. So we've really focused on

564
00:27:25,198 --> 00:27:29,318
Speaker 2: the DC area and on young people. We've we've offered

565
00:27:29,598 --> 00:27:34,438
Speaker 2: several college scholarships in my sister's name. Under her we

566
00:27:34,518 --> 00:27:39,358
Speaker 2: offer to corporations that do that, we give them a

567
00:27:39,398 --> 00:27:43,878
Speaker 2: contribution to to do great things in the in the

568
00:27:43,958 --> 00:27:49,238
Speaker 2: DC area, and just giving back to people because we've

569
00:27:49,278 --> 00:27:51,958
Speaker 2: had such a wonderful life here and and they've treated

570
00:27:52,038 --> 00:27:54,798
Speaker 2: us in this town so great. You know, I live

571
00:27:54,958 --> 00:27:59,438
Speaker 2: I lived just until recently, I lived, you know, downtown

572
00:27:59,478 --> 00:28:03,238
Speaker 2: by the ballpark for fifteen years and you know, through

573
00:28:03,238 --> 00:28:05,638
Speaker 2: the good times, do the rebuilds, the bad times and

574
00:28:05,718 --> 00:28:10,158
Speaker 2: all that stuff, the championship years and the lean years.

575
00:28:09,878 --> 00:28:14,958
Speaker 2: This neighborhood and this district has embraced me and taken

576
00:28:14,998 --> 00:28:16,958
Speaker 2: me in and have been good to me. And I

577
00:28:16,998 --> 00:28:20,958
Speaker 2: felt that it was at a great idea to honor

578
00:28:20,998 --> 00:28:23,758
Speaker 2: my mother and father and my sister and create riz

579
00:28:23,878 --> 00:28:27,838
Speaker 2: kids and do it. I do a small a small

580
00:28:27,878 --> 00:28:32,278
Speaker 2: piece that I could do to empower kids and to

581
00:28:32,318 --> 00:28:33,598
Speaker 2: make their lives a little bit better.

582
00:28:33,758 --> 00:28:36,918
Speaker 1: That's outstanding, And Joe, I couldn't help but think about

583
00:28:37,118 --> 00:28:40,118
Speaker 1: your own situation. Of course, your dad wasn't around for

584
00:28:40,278 --> 00:28:42,718
Speaker 1: game seven of the World Series in twenty sixteen or

585
00:28:42,878 --> 00:28:45,398
Speaker 1: two thousand and two. But I'm sure with the way

586
00:28:45,438 --> 00:28:48,638
Speaker 1: you brought his hat into the dugout with you definitely

587
00:28:48,678 --> 00:28:51,878
Speaker 1: on your mind. You guys have a lot in common,

588
00:28:51,918 --> 00:28:53,158
Speaker 1: it seems we do.

589
00:28:53,358 --> 00:28:56,238
Speaker 3: I mean often said when I was with the Cubbies

590
00:28:56,278 --> 00:29:00,798
Speaker 3: that Hazelton is a microcosm of Chicago. When you're in Chicago,

591
00:29:00,878 --> 00:29:02,758
Speaker 3: it's like it's a city of neighborhoods. You don't feel

592
00:29:02,758 --> 00:29:05,078
Speaker 3: like you're in a big city necessary till you get downtown.

593
00:29:05,478 --> 00:29:07,598
Speaker 4: It's this sprawling.

594
00:29:07,598 --> 00:29:10,678
Speaker 3: Group of neighborhoods that's just attached to one another. And

595
00:29:10,958 --> 00:29:13,238
Speaker 3: my smaller town is the same way. And you have

596
00:29:13,278 --> 00:29:15,918
Speaker 3: all the different ethnicities throughout the city, and there's a

597
00:29:15,998 --> 00:29:18,558
Speaker 3: toughness about the people, but there's also a kindness about

598
00:29:18,598 --> 00:29:21,638
Speaker 3: the people, and there's a way that we support one another,

599
00:29:21,678 --> 00:29:24,158
Speaker 3: whether it's here or bear in Chicago. I've always felt,

600
00:29:24,558 --> 00:29:26,598
Speaker 3: I mentioned it earlier, like the strong affinity with the

601
00:29:26,718 --> 00:29:30,038
Speaker 3: Chicago guys. Whenever I got to Chicago guys on any level,

602
00:29:30,078 --> 00:29:33,638
Speaker 3: I've always enjoyed them. A great sense of humor, played hard,

603
00:29:34,038 --> 00:29:36,598
Speaker 3: didn't need to be stroked all the time. You could

604
00:29:36,638 --> 00:29:38,438
Speaker 3: be straight up with them. They're not going to fold.

605
00:29:38,758 --> 00:29:40,358
Speaker 3: These are the kind of things that I think is

606
00:29:40,678 --> 00:29:43,998
Speaker 3: indigenous to that particular area. I mean, you're talking about,

607
00:29:44,038 --> 00:29:47,078
Speaker 3: you know, parents and father growing up. Same respect for

608
00:29:47,198 --> 00:29:50,678
Speaker 3: my dad. That Mike hat for his my backpack is

609
00:29:50,678 --> 00:29:52,318
Speaker 3: in the other room right now. My dad's hat is

610
00:29:52,358 --> 00:29:55,158
Speaker 3: still in that backpack. So I think when you have

611
00:29:55,238 --> 00:29:59,318
Speaker 3: that kind of foundation structure that was built by your parents,

612
00:29:59,718 --> 00:30:02,478
Speaker 3: it's going to stay with you. It's not going anywhere,

613
00:30:03,038 --> 00:30:05,518
Speaker 3: and you're going to be in some way, you know,

614
00:30:05,718 --> 00:30:08,118
Speaker 3: chip off the old block, kind of a piece, a

615
00:30:08,238 --> 00:30:11,598
Speaker 3: remnant of that other person. That is a good thing

616
00:30:11,718 --> 00:30:14,238
Speaker 3: because you really want to be like your pop. My

617
00:30:14,318 --> 00:30:16,558
Speaker 3: dad had a great work work ethic, so did Michaels,

618
00:30:16,558 --> 00:30:18,998
Speaker 3: and we were just very fortunate of those kind of parents.

619
00:30:19,158 --> 00:30:21,518
Speaker 1: Well said, and Mike, we got one more job for

620
00:30:21,558 --> 00:30:23,238
Speaker 1: you before we let you go. We like to play

621
00:30:23,278 --> 00:30:26,678
Speaker 1: a game with our guests here. It's called a reading

622
00:30:26,998 --> 00:30:31,198
Speaker 1: from the Book of Joe. We like to think that

623
00:30:31,558 --> 00:30:33,518
Speaker 1: you could turn to any page in our book, the

624
00:30:33,518 --> 00:30:37,078
Speaker 1: Book of Joe, and find something interesting, funny, touching, you

625
00:30:37,198 --> 00:30:39,318
Speaker 1: name it. So we ask our guests to pick any

626
00:30:39,398 --> 00:30:43,318
Speaker 1: number between one and three hundred and sixty nine, and

627
00:30:43,358 --> 00:30:46,558
Speaker 1: we will turn to that page and find out what's

628
00:30:46,598 --> 00:30:49,878
Speaker 1: on that. So it's your turn at bat, Mike Rizzo,

629
00:30:50,038 --> 00:30:52,358
Speaker 1: you pick a number between one and three sixty nine.

630
00:30:53,038 --> 00:30:54,038
Speaker 2: Let's pick fourteen.

631
00:30:54,238 --> 00:30:56,598
Speaker 1: And now I've got to ask you why that number

632
00:30:56,798 --> 00:30:58,238
Speaker 1: came to your mind? Why you picked it?

633
00:30:58,278 --> 00:31:00,598
Speaker 2: Well, well, it's kind it's kind of been a lucky

634
00:31:00,638 --> 00:31:04,358
Speaker 2: number of mine, and I'm just figuring it book. I

635
00:31:04,358 --> 00:31:09,078
Speaker 2: want to I want to hear early early Madden in

636
00:31:09,558 --> 00:31:10,078
Speaker 2: the beginning.

637
00:31:10,318 --> 00:31:11,838
Speaker 1: Okay, well.

638
00:31:13,158 --> 00:31:14,438
Speaker 2: I knew Early Madden.

639
00:31:14,558 --> 00:31:16,718
Speaker 4: I know that's what he did.

640
00:31:17,038 --> 00:31:21,678
Speaker 1: He does, I confess, Well, how appropriate is this? Madden

641
00:31:21,718 --> 00:31:23,998
Speaker 1: has been shaped by the lessons and wisdom of great

642
00:31:24,078 --> 00:31:27,838
Speaker 1: leaders throughout his life, especially in his formative years. It

643
00:31:27,918 --> 00:31:30,518
Speaker 1: began with his parents. I mean, we can't make this

644
00:31:30,558 --> 00:31:31,078
Speaker 1: stuff up.

645
00:31:31,078 --> 00:31:34,198
Speaker 4: Joe right exactly.

646
00:31:35,238 --> 00:31:39,238
Speaker 1: This was along with their father, Carmen Madden, Joseph Anthony Madden,

647
00:31:39,278 --> 00:31:42,478
Speaker 1: and his four brothers operated see Madden and Sons Plumbing

648
00:31:42,478 --> 00:31:46,238
Speaker 1: and Heating in Hazleton, Pennsylvania, known throughout the blue collar

649
00:31:46,398 --> 00:31:49,998
Speaker 1: cold town as Joe the Plumber. Madden's father kept pipes

650
00:31:49,998 --> 00:31:53,798
Speaker 1: and furnaces and working conditions there for sixty years. Always

651
00:31:53,838 --> 00:31:56,838
Speaker 1: with a smile on his face and the phillies between

652
00:31:56,878 --> 00:32:00,358
Speaker 1: his teeth. Mad's mother, Albina, known to everyone as Beanie,

653
00:32:00,358 --> 00:32:04,398
Speaker 1: worked into her eighties at Hazelton's third base Lunch in It,

654
00:32:04,958 --> 00:32:07,838
Speaker 1: which lived up to its name as the closest thing

655
00:32:07,918 --> 00:32:10,158
Speaker 1: to home from them, he learned the value of it

656
00:32:10,278 --> 00:32:13,878
Speaker 1: honest day's work, and how to meet challenges with a smile.

657
00:32:14,238 --> 00:32:16,478
Speaker 1: So there you go, Mike Rizzo. You went straight to

658
00:32:16,518 --> 00:32:18,558
Speaker 1: the heart of who Joe Madden.

659
00:32:18,398 --> 00:32:20,878
Speaker 2: Is beautiful early mad and I love it.

660
00:32:21,198 --> 00:32:23,758
Speaker 3: That's incredible, though this stuff happens with this all the time,

661
00:32:23,798 --> 00:32:25,758
Speaker 3: and you picked up a page number fourteen. We just

662
00:32:25,758 --> 00:32:28,398
Speaker 3: got done talking about it. I come up with a

663
00:32:28,518 --> 00:32:31,038
Speaker 3: quote of the day at the conclusion of all of this,

664
00:32:31,518 --> 00:32:34,318
Speaker 3: and I might and Tommy never talked me what the

665
00:32:35,318 --> 00:32:37,198
Speaker 3: subject matter is going to be, what the questions are

666
00:32:37,238 --> 00:32:39,438
Speaker 3: going to be, like whatever, And I just react to

667
00:32:39,438 --> 00:32:43,838
Speaker 3: this show and so almost always it comes it matches

668
00:32:43,918 --> 00:32:44,158
Speaker 3: up that.

669
00:32:44,478 --> 00:32:46,118
Speaker 4: That's incredible, well done.

670
00:32:46,598 --> 00:32:49,198
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's been so much fun, Mike. Before we let

671
00:32:49,278 --> 00:32:53,358
Speaker 1: you go. For our Nationals fans listening out there, they're

672
00:32:53,438 --> 00:32:55,678
Speaker 1: encouraged by what they're saying here. You seem like you're

673
00:32:55,718 --> 00:32:58,038
Speaker 1: on the right track. Give me a sense of where

674
00:32:58,278 --> 00:33:00,278
Speaker 1: Washington is going forward from here.

675
00:33:00,598 --> 00:33:02,078
Speaker 2: No, I think we could see the light at the

676
00:33:02,158 --> 00:33:03,918
Speaker 2: end of the tunnel. I mean, they've been very patient

677
00:33:04,078 --> 00:33:06,278
Speaker 2: in the rebuild, you know, since you know, we started

678
00:33:06,278 --> 00:33:10,158
Speaker 2: this thing in twenty one, and you know, we've last

679
00:33:10,158 --> 00:33:12,358
Speaker 2: place finishes and there's no fun with that. It's tough

680
00:33:12,358 --> 00:33:14,278
Speaker 2: to be a fan with that. But I think they

681
00:33:14,398 --> 00:33:16,998
Speaker 2: trust the process and we've done it in the past.

682
00:33:17,438 --> 00:33:19,478
Speaker 2: We have a blueprint to get back to the championship

683
00:33:19,998 --> 00:33:22,758
Speaker 2: level of play. So we've got a lot of good

684
00:33:22,798 --> 00:33:26,838
Speaker 2: young players. We're in position to kind of take next

685
00:33:26,838 --> 00:33:32,918
Speaker 2: steps and go from go from rebuilding to potential to

686
00:33:33,158 --> 00:33:37,718
Speaker 2: compete and hopefully once we get to the competing mode

687
00:33:38,038 --> 00:33:40,718
Speaker 2: that you know, we'll have another ten year run like

688
00:33:40,798 --> 00:33:43,638
Speaker 2: we had you know, from you know, from twelve to

689
00:33:43,638 --> 00:33:48,518
Speaker 2: to through the World Series Championship in nineteen and where

690
00:33:48,518 --> 00:33:50,078
Speaker 2: we were, you know, one of the best teams in

691
00:33:50,118 --> 00:33:52,438
Speaker 2: baseball for about you know, eight to ten years in

692
00:33:52,478 --> 00:33:55,598
Speaker 2: a row. So that's that's our goal. This game is

693
00:33:56,758 --> 00:33:58,958
Speaker 2: Joe tells me this all the time. This game is hard.

694
00:33:58,998 --> 00:34:01,118
Speaker 2: It's hard to win games in the big leagues, and

695
00:34:01,358 --> 00:34:05,118
Speaker 2: winning a big League game is hard and should be celebrated,

696
00:34:05,158 --> 00:34:07,718
Speaker 2: and and we do. It's humbling and you know, just

697
00:34:07,758 --> 00:34:09,918
Speaker 2: when you think you're on the right track, we we've been.

698
00:34:10,038 --> 00:34:12,118
Speaker 2: You know, we've been playing good baseball with a really

699
00:34:12,198 --> 00:34:14,878
Speaker 2: young team. I think we have six, six or seven

700
00:34:14,958 --> 00:34:17,718
Speaker 2: rookies in the starting lineup. On any given day, you know,

701
00:34:17,758 --> 00:34:20,118
Speaker 2: you run into an Atlanta Braves team like we did

702
00:34:20,158 --> 00:34:21,918
Speaker 2: last night, and they humble you. And the good thing

703
00:34:21,958 --> 00:34:24,038
Speaker 2: about this game is it does humble you and does

704
00:34:24,158 --> 00:34:26,998
Speaker 2: make you make you stronger if you're if you're cut

705
00:34:26,998 --> 00:34:29,478
Speaker 2: from the right cloth. So I think we we are

706
00:34:29,558 --> 00:34:31,998
Speaker 2: we are cut from the right cloth. Davy Martinez has

707
00:34:32,038 --> 00:34:35,238
Speaker 2: got the team playing really, really hard. We play with

708
00:34:35,278 --> 00:34:39,518
Speaker 2: our hair on fire. Oftentimes it's it's not pretty, but

709
00:34:39,798 --> 00:34:43,278
Speaker 2: they're learning. But it's uh. I think I think people

710
00:34:43,318 --> 00:34:45,998
Speaker 2: here see it. We're going in the right direction and uh.

711
00:34:46,118 --> 00:34:48,878
Speaker 2: And our plan is to is to compete for for

712
00:34:48,958 --> 00:34:51,638
Speaker 2: many years after this and with the support of the

713
00:34:51,678 --> 00:34:54,558
Speaker 2: fans and the ownership and and the group, I think

714
00:34:54,598 --> 00:34:58,918
Speaker 2: we're on the on the doorstep of something going on

715
00:34:58,998 --> 00:35:00,838
Speaker 2: another special run like we did in the past.

716
00:35:01,118 --> 00:35:03,718
Speaker 3: Before you go to just make sure you tell Kkhillo

717
00:35:04,038 --> 00:35:06,798
Speaker 3: me please, and also David the rest of the coaching staff.

718
00:35:06,998 --> 00:35:08,518
Speaker 4: Chris Kleine brought him up earlier.

719
00:35:08,758 --> 00:35:11,638
Speaker 3: I signed KK ad a Grand Canyon College at that time,

720
00:35:11,878 --> 00:35:14,798
Speaker 3: and I really thought, I really thought KK was gonna

721
00:35:14,798 --> 00:35:19,598
Speaker 3: be a big league player. Six three sixty four, ran well, hit, line, drive, hitter,

722
00:35:19,678 --> 00:35:23,118
Speaker 3: played shortstop, could do other things. KK was always one

723
00:35:23,118 --> 00:35:25,318
Speaker 3: of my favorite players. So give him my best please.

724
00:35:25,878 --> 00:35:28,878
Speaker 2: He's been with me till this day since nineteen eighty two.

725
00:35:29,358 --> 00:35:30,558
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's awesome, love it.

726
00:35:30,718 --> 00:35:32,878
Speaker 1: That's awesome. This has been so much fun. Mike really

727
00:35:32,918 --> 00:35:35,678
Speaker 1: appreciated all the best to you and the Washington Nationals.

728
00:35:35,718 --> 00:35:38,998
Speaker 2: Thanks guys, thanks to appreciate it. And Joe always a pleasure.

729
00:35:39,278 --> 00:35:39,478
Speaker 4: Same.

730
00:35:39,518 --> 00:35:41,678
Speaker 1: Heybody be well, well, there's still more on the Book

731
00:35:41,718 --> 00:35:43,958
Speaker 1: of Joe podcast and Joe teas to his Court of

732
00:35:43,998 --> 00:35:46,238
Speaker 1: the day. We'll have that and more when we get

733
00:35:46,278 --> 00:36:01,918
Speaker 1: back right after this. Welcome back to the Book of

734
00:36:01,958 --> 00:36:04,718
Speaker 1: Joe podcast. Joe had to be really fun for you

735
00:36:04,798 --> 00:36:06,718
Speaker 1: to get down memory lane a little bit there with

736
00:36:07,078 --> 00:36:10,318
Speaker 1: Mike Rizzo his first year in pro ball, your first

737
00:36:10,398 --> 00:36:13,398
Speaker 1: year in pro ball, and the Roads meet in Salem,

738
00:36:13,518 --> 00:36:14,678
Speaker 1: Oregon about it.

739
00:36:14,958 --> 00:36:18,878
Speaker 3: Yeah, listen, always very daring to my heart and him

740
00:36:18,958 --> 00:36:22,198
Speaker 3: and that an entire group, and again we just talked

741
00:36:22,198 --> 00:36:25,238
Speaker 3: about it. Something about him and that group. For the

742
00:36:25,318 --> 00:36:29,238
Speaker 3: Chicago guys I've always really enjoyed. Could see when he speaks,

743
00:36:29,958 --> 00:36:33,638
Speaker 3: very straightforward, very passionate about what he does. Great background.

744
00:36:33,838 --> 00:36:36,478
Speaker 3: He talked about his dad, Phil and Nicky Cam's like

745
00:36:36,598 --> 00:36:40,518
Speaker 3: legendary scout in the Midwest, and really fortunate that Nicky

746
00:36:40,718 --> 00:36:41,838
Speaker 3: was my signing.

747
00:36:41,558 --> 00:36:42,558
Speaker 4: Scout as well as his.

748
00:36:43,078 --> 00:36:45,118
Speaker 3: The success he's had with the d Backs and now

749
00:36:45,158 --> 00:36:48,198
Speaker 3: with the Nationals, I could not be happier for him.

750
00:36:48,878 --> 00:36:50,878
Speaker 3: I think it's great, and like he said, he's kept

751
00:36:50,878 --> 00:36:54,598
Speaker 3: the Chris Klein of all people. Kk's with him still

752
00:36:54,598 --> 00:36:57,278
Speaker 3: and of course David Martinez, my former bench coach, Hickey

753
00:36:57,358 --> 00:36:59,798
Speaker 3: my pitching coach. So yeah, you got a root for them.

754
00:36:59,798 --> 00:37:01,838
Speaker 3: I root for them all the time. Very happy for

755
00:37:01,878 --> 00:37:04,838
Speaker 3: his success. But this is this is a street fighting

756
00:37:04,958 --> 00:37:07,358
Speaker 3: kind of a guy, and like I said, you could

757
00:37:07,398 --> 00:37:09,038
Speaker 3: you could almost see it in his face and hear

758
00:37:09,078 --> 00:37:11,118
Speaker 3: it in his voice, so it's not going to go away.

759
00:37:11,398 --> 00:37:12,238
Speaker 4: I like the approach.

760
00:37:12,238 --> 00:37:14,198
Speaker 3: I like the blend of the fact that he talked

761
00:37:14,198 --> 00:37:17,198
Speaker 3: about blending the newer methods absolutely with the older and

762
00:37:17,198 --> 00:37:20,158
Speaker 3: when he speaks, he speaks like an old school scout,

763
00:37:20,198 --> 00:37:21,158
Speaker 3: which I really appreciate.

764
00:37:21,558 --> 00:37:24,118
Speaker 1: Yeah, he'll let you know how he feels too. I

765
00:37:24,198 --> 00:37:26,318
Speaker 1: mentioned he got thrown out by Joe West. He talked

766
00:37:26,318 --> 00:37:29,838
Speaker 1: about that. He also once called Cole Hamil's gutless because

767
00:37:29,838 --> 00:37:31,958
Speaker 1: he hit Bryce Harper with a pitchman. I think Bryce

768
00:37:32,038 --> 00:37:34,238
Speaker 1: was a rookie and he got fined by Major League

769
00:37:34,238 --> 00:37:37,198
Speaker 1: Baseball for speaking his mind and calling Cole Hamill's gutless.

770
00:37:37,238 --> 00:37:38,678
Speaker 1: So you got to love that about him.

771
00:37:38,998 --> 00:37:39,318
Speaker 4: I do.

772
00:37:39,358 --> 00:37:41,998
Speaker 3: And that's that's the whole thing. I mean, tell me

773
00:37:42,038 --> 00:37:43,718
Speaker 3: what you think, not what you've heard. That's one of

774
00:37:43,718 --> 00:37:45,838
Speaker 3: my lines. And Michael's always going to tell you what

775
00:37:45,878 --> 00:37:48,678
Speaker 3: he thinks. He's never about what he's heard. I love

776
00:37:48,718 --> 00:37:51,958
Speaker 3: those guys that get out there in front and and

777
00:37:51,998 --> 00:37:57,398
Speaker 3: again are they're just he could say those things comfortably because.

778
00:37:56,998 --> 00:37:59,078
Speaker 4: That's how he grew up. This is who he is.

779
00:37:59,118 --> 00:38:00,118
Speaker 4: This is his fabric.

780
00:38:00,158 --> 00:38:02,798
Speaker 3: It's not like he's not reading books and trying to

781
00:38:02,798 --> 00:38:03,918
Speaker 3: become somebody that he's not.

782
00:38:04,238 --> 00:38:06,718
Speaker 4: He's just he is an open book.

783
00:38:07,078 --> 00:38:12,038
Speaker 3: This is who he is viscerally and again, whenever you

784
00:38:12,078 --> 00:38:14,998
Speaker 3: work in this industry of baseball, one of the things

785
00:38:15,038 --> 00:38:18,718
Speaker 3: that I've always mentioned about my coaching staffs. The one

786
00:38:18,838 --> 00:38:21,158
Speaker 3: character trait I love about them is that they're fearless.

787
00:38:21,158 --> 00:38:24,758
Speaker 3: Their fearlessness about them that they're going to have tough conversations,

788
00:38:24,758 --> 00:38:26,358
Speaker 3: They're going to say what they think, They're not going

789
00:38:26,438 --> 00:38:29,638
Speaker 3: to back down, be open minded, but nevertheless still.

790
00:38:29,518 --> 00:38:32,478
Speaker 4: Know what you think. And he's a perfect example of that.

791
00:38:32,598 --> 00:38:34,638
Speaker 1: On a sadder note, Joe, we lost a couple of

792
00:38:34,638 --> 00:38:38,278
Speaker 1: guys in the baseball community this week. Ed Cranpool was

793
00:38:38,318 --> 00:38:41,438
Speaker 1: one of those eighteen seasons with the New York Mets.

794
00:38:41,518 --> 00:38:45,238
Speaker 1: Remember he was signed out of James Monroe High School

795
00:38:45,238 --> 00:38:47,758
Speaker 1: in the Bronx a bonus baby in nineteen sixty two

796
00:38:47,798 --> 00:38:50,238
Speaker 1: by the New York Mets. He got an eighty thousand

797
00:38:50,238 --> 00:38:52,198
Speaker 1: dollars bonus, a lot of money back in the day,

798
00:38:52,798 --> 00:38:55,878
Speaker 1: and you probably would applaud what he did with the money, Joe.

799
00:38:56,238 --> 00:38:59,158
Speaker 1: He bought a white Thunderbird and he bought a home

800
00:38:59,358 --> 00:39:00,838
Speaker 1: in white planes for his mom.

801
00:39:01,518 --> 00:39:02,118
Speaker 4: That's awesome.

802
00:39:03,358 --> 00:39:06,198
Speaker 3: How could you not be a steady Eddy crane Pool fan.

803
00:39:06,638 --> 00:39:10,118
Speaker 3: Never got to meet him, obviously, but growing up right did.

804
00:39:10,198 --> 00:39:12,878
Speaker 3: I had a great appreciation for him. I read a

805
00:39:12,878 --> 00:39:15,438
Speaker 3: little bit about him the little bit kind of a

806
00:39:15,478 --> 00:39:17,838
Speaker 3: thing in the New York Post yesterday and how well

807
00:39:17,918 --> 00:39:21,038
Speaker 3: loved and liked it. He was, Yeah, it is a

808
00:39:21,038 --> 00:39:24,958
Speaker 3: sad day, and he was. I mean, that generation of player,

809
00:39:24,998 --> 00:39:29,478
Speaker 3: that particular group in that time, a very interesting moment

810
00:39:29,518 --> 00:39:31,518
Speaker 3: in our game, and he's a big part of that

811
00:39:31,558 --> 00:39:32,118
Speaker 3: with the Mets.

812
00:39:32,478 --> 00:39:35,878
Speaker 1: Yeah, his father actually was killed in France during World

813
00:39:35,958 --> 00:39:39,598
Speaker 1: War Two. His mother was six months pregnant at the

814
00:39:39,638 --> 00:39:42,878
Speaker 1: time with Eddie Cranpole, so she raised him as a

815
00:39:42,878 --> 00:39:46,758
Speaker 1: single mom. He signed at seventeen, and the Mets immediately

816
00:39:46,758 --> 00:39:49,078
Speaker 1: put him on a plane to Los Angeles to join

817
00:39:49,118 --> 00:39:52,438
Speaker 1: the club. Imagine this, He's out of high school, seventeen,

818
00:39:52,958 --> 00:39:56,078
Speaker 1: joins the Mets in La at Dodger Stadium, and that

819
00:39:56,198 --> 00:39:59,918
Speaker 1: night he gets there, Sandy Kofax, no hits New York Mets.

820
00:40:00,518 --> 00:40:02,078
Speaker 1: Welcome to the sixty two Mets.

821
00:40:03,478 --> 00:40:05,238
Speaker 3: You got to put yourself in that position of being.

822
00:40:05,518 --> 00:40:09,678
Speaker 3: Remember when you were seventeen, did you have the mental

823
00:40:09,718 --> 00:40:13,198
Speaker 3: ability or the courage or the wherewithal or whatever it

824
00:40:13,238 --> 00:40:15,918
Speaker 3: takes to go all that way be in a major

825
00:40:15,998 --> 00:40:18,358
Speaker 3: league game. Get eighty thousand bucks to sign at that time,

826
00:40:18,398 --> 00:40:20,318
Speaker 3: which was probably I don't even know close to a

827
00:40:20,398 --> 00:40:25,438
Speaker 3: million in today's world. That takes something that I could

828
00:40:25,558 --> 00:40:27,038
Speaker 3: never have done. I would not have been able to

829
00:40:27,078 --> 00:40:28,918
Speaker 3: do that. I would not have been able to.

830
00:40:28,918 --> 00:40:30,878
Speaker 4: As as a seventeen eighteen year old.

831
00:40:31,238 --> 00:40:33,838
Speaker 3: Been put in that position, given that kind of opportunity

832
00:40:33,878 --> 00:40:35,398
Speaker 3: and survive, I really don't believe so.

833
00:40:35,678 --> 00:40:38,958
Speaker 1: And Casey's stangel was his manager. His roommate was a

834
00:40:39,038 --> 00:40:41,838
Speaker 1: thirty four year old Frank Thomas. I mean, that's the

835
00:40:41,918 --> 00:40:44,118
Speaker 1: thing to me, as a teenager, you're throwing it in

836
00:40:44,318 --> 00:40:47,398
Speaker 1: a purely adult world that you're really not ready for.

837
00:40:48,118 --> 00:40:51,998
Speaker 1: Just amazing. But he did, obviously. He's also with the

838
00:40:52,118 --> 00:40:54,438
Speaker 1: Miracle Mets of nineteen sixty nine. Hit a home run

839
00:40:54,438 --> 00:40:56,438
Speaker 1: in that World Series in Game three, and he still

840
00:40:56,438 --> 00:40:59,958
Speaker 1: holds the Mets records for most pinch hits and most

841
00:41:00,038 --> 00:41:01,958
Speaker 1: games played. How about that.

842
00:41:02,238 --> 00:41:02,998
Speaker 4: I did not know that.

843
00:41:03,158 --> 00:41:05,838
Speaker 1: And the other one, Austin, I call it the baseball community,

844
00:41:05,878 --> 00:41:08,798
Speaker 1: and why not James Earl Jones and one of the

845
00:41:09,078 --> 00:41:14,158
Speaker 1: great iconic actors, especially voices of our time. And of

846
00:41:14,198 --> 00:41:17,438
Speaker 1: course I include him in the baseball community because in

847
00:41:17,518 --> 00:41:21,598
Speaker 1: terms of baseball speeches, you know, you've got lou Garrick's speech,

848
00:41:21,638 --> 00:41:25,198
Speaker 1: of course, but you've also got from Hollywood Terrence Mann

849
00:41:25,318 --> 00:41:28,798
Speaker 1: played by James Earl Jones in Field of Dreams, and

850
00:41:29,398 --> 00:41:32,838
Speaker 1: it's just iconic. This is a guy who, you know,

851
00:41:32,878 --> 00:41:35,518
Speaker 1: a lot of people remember that line. You know, if

852
00:41:35,518 --> 00:41:37,878
Speaker 1: you've built it, they will come. But it's the whole

853
00:41:37,918 --> 00:41:41,598
Speaker 1: speech that he gave. And what's interesting, Joe, is that

854
00:41:41,678 --> 00:41:44,478
Speaker 1: when that movie came out and the New York Times

855
00:41:44,558 --> 00:41:50,278
Speaker 1: reviewed it, the reviewer ripped that speech specifically by Terrence

856
00:41:50,278 --> 00:41:53,198
Speaker 1: Matt said it was completely out of place. Really, how

857
00:41:53,198 --> 00:41:55,478
Speaker 1: about that? So think about that, and I'm sure you

858
00:41:55,518 --> 00:41:59,678
Speaker 1: do anyway when you read reviews, read him for amusement purposes.

859
00:41:59,758 --> 00:42:03,878
Speaker 1: Own doesn't create a review to have them formulate your

860
00:42:03,998 --> 00:42:05,758
Speaker 1: our opinion, no question.

861
00:42:05,998 --> 00:42:06,558
Speaker 4: Absolutely.

862
00:42:06,678 --> 00:42:09,958
Speaker 3: And as you're saying all that, Kevin Costner did such

863
00:42:09,958 --> 00:42:13,318
Speaker 3: a great job in his baseball movies and whether it

864
00:42:13,358 --> 00:42:16,638
Speaker 3: was Bill Durham or Field of Dreams, and I was

865
00:42:16,678 --> 00:42:18,758
Speaker 3: still at that point, and I wish, I hope I

866
00:42:18,878 --> 00:42:22,238
Speaker 3: never lose that sense of awe and wonderment. But to

867
00:42:22,318 --> 00:42:24,918
Speaker 3: have those players walk out of the cornfields onto the

868
00:42:24,958 --> 00:42:28,398
Speaker 3: field itself in Burk Lancaster's role coming down and how

869
00:42:28,438 --> 00:42:29,958
Speaker 3: he picked him up on a highway in an old

870
00:42:29,958 --> 00:42:33,038
Speaker 3: beat up Volkswagen bus. I mean, those are the kind

871
00:42:33,038 --> 00:42:36,758
Speaker 3: of stuff that really conjure up your childhood and that wonderment.

872
00:42:36,838 --> 00:42:39,918
Speaker 3: Because the first time I walked into Conyie vaccinating with

873
00:42:39,958 --> 00:42:42,358
Speaker 3: my pop up through those you know, the clown's mouth,

874
00:42:42,358 --> 00:42:45,478
Speaker 3: you walk out and there's this green field. That's first

875
00:42:45,518 --> 00:42:49,438
Speaker 3: time eyes, that's first time passion, and you'd never want

876
00:42:49,478 --> 00:42:52,838
Speaker 3: to lose that feeling, that sense of awe. And so

877
00:42:52,878 --> 00:42:55,638
Speaker 3: that movie was really able to recapture that when you

878
00:42:55,718 --> 00:42:57,838
Speaker 3: watched it. The whole thing going to Boston, I was

879
00:42:57,878 --> 00:43:02,438
Speaker 3: such a weird infinity for Fenway Park and what existed

880
00:43:02,478 --> 00:43:04,358
Speaker 3: behind the green Monster. And they actually have that one

881
00:43:04,398 --> 00:43:06,878
Speaker 3: scene with the lights blaring into the ballpark but you

882
00:43:06,918 --> 00:43:07,758
Speaker 3: can see.

883
00:43:07,678 --> 00:43:11,518
Speaker 4: Past the wall. That's you know, for me, that really

884
00:43:11,598 --> 00:43:14,478
Speaker 4: hit home and and and and and left its mark

885
00:43:14,598 --> 00:43:14,958
Speaker 4: on me.

886
00:43:15,558 --> 00:43:18,038
Speaker 3: So yes, absolutely an Ima just to give costs her

887
00:43:18,078 --> 00:43:20,878
Speaker 3: a bit of another plug. I mean, Bull Durham, I

888
00:43:20,918 --> 00:43:23,678
Speaker 3: lived that life. I lived that specifically, and that was

889
00:43:23,798 --> 00:43:27,718
Speaker 3: so well done. And and his self talk and you

890
00:43:27,758 --> 00:43:29,758
Speaker 3: know what he did on the mound with the Robinson

891
00:43:29,998 --> 00:43:32,678
Speaker 3: and h in the dugout and the whole thing that

892
00:43:32,758 --> 00:43:36,158
Speaker 3: the scene's starting a fight in a pull hall. All

893
00:43:36,198 --> 00:43:38,918
Speaker 3: this stuff was so realistic and well done. You know,

894
00:43:39,158 --> 00:43:42,118
Speaker 3: you get caught up and the accelerated version of our

895
00:43:42,118 --> 00:43:45,558
Speaker 3: game right now and and and how it's being formulated

896
00:43:45,598 --> 00:43:50,078
Speaker 3: and publicized and marketed, et cetera. Go back there, just

897
00:43:50,118 --> 00:43:52,838
Speaker 3: go back to feel the dreams and go back to

898
00:43:52,958 --> 00:43:55,718
Speaker 3: bulldrm because that really pro right or wrong. That's my

899
00:43:56,198 --> 00:43:59,158
Speaker 3: impression of interpretation of how this game should be viewed

900
00:43:59,198 --> 00:44:02,198
Speaker 3: and perceived. There's a lot of fun involved in that too. Uh,

901
00:44:02,278 --> 00:44:04,598
Speaker 3: there was fun, and the game was really a human

902
00:44:04,638 --> 00:44:08,278
Speaker 3: game at that time, and that's always was the draw

903
00:44:08,318 --> 00:44:09,718
Speaker 3: and it's always going to be the draw for me,

904
00:44:10,198 --> 00:44:11,718
Speaker 3: and I hope that we never lose sight of that.

905
00:44:12,078 --> 00:44:14,758
Speaker 1: I agree one hundred percent. And we're talking about baseball

906
00:44:14,798 --> 00:44:18,678
Speaker 1: with a small B, not Major League baseball. Baseball the game.

907
00:44:19,318 --> 00:44:22,518
Speaker 1: And I've always thought if you watch Field of Dreams

908
00:44:22,718 --> 00:44:25,398
Speaker 1: and you don't get it, and maybe you think it's sappy,

909
00:44:25,958 --> 00:44:29,598
Speaker 1: well then you really don't have baseball in your DNA,

910
00:44:29,998 --> 00:44:34,198
Speaker 1: because a true baseball fan gets every bit of that movie.

911
00:44:34,438 --> 00:44:37,238
Speaker 1: And it's just to me, it's always at home, and

912
00:44:37,278 --> 00:44:39,718
Speaker 1: the people who complain about it or find something wrong

913
00:44:39,758 --> 00:44:42,958
Speaker 1: with it, they don't really have baseball in their blood.

914
00:44:43,278 --> 00:44:45,158
Speaker 1: And that, to me is the ultimate test.

915
00:44:45,198 --> 00:44:46,878
Speaker 3: That mom moon like Graham, moon like Graham on the

916
00:44:46,878 --> 00:44:49,998
Speaker 3: side of a road, right, carrying whatever, carrying everything with it.

917
00:44:50,038 --> 00:44:50,798
Speaker 4: That's who we were.

918
00:44:51,118 --> 00:44:54,078
Speaker 3: I mean, carrying your glove, the look in his eye,

919
00:44:54,278 --> 00:44:57,598
Speaker 3: the haircut, everything about that kid getting in that vehicle

920
00:44:58,598 --> 00:45:02,038
Speaker 3: in the dreams. I mean, that's what we should be

921
00:45:02,078 --> 00:45:06,198
Speaker 3: able to conjure or or our children, our kids, whether

922
00:45:06,238 --> 00:45:09,278
Speaker 3: they're athletes or not. That's that's the look of wonderment

923
00:45:09,358 --> 00:45:12,238
Speaker 3: you want to see in your kid's face regarding what

924
00:45:12,278 --> 00:45:14,198
Speaker 3: they want to do with their life. What's what is

925
00:45:14,238 --> 00:45:16,678
Speaker 3: their passion? What turns them on? Why do they wake

926
00:45:16,718 --> 00:45:18,318
Speaker 3: up in when he what? What do they what do

927
00:45:18,358 --> 00:45:19,838
Speaker 3: they want to achieve? And how do they want to

928
00:45:19,838 --> 00:45:20,518
Speaker 3: work toward it?

929
00:45:20,838 --> 00:45:21,998
Speaker 4: That's all there.

930
00:45:22,038 --> 00:45:24,078
Speaker 3: And this kid eventually grows up to be a doctor

931
00:45:24,118 --> 00:45:27,998
Speaker 3: of course in the movie whatever, But that's with my

932
00:45:28,078 --> 00:45:30,358
Speaker 3: kids and my grandkids. If I could see that in

933
00:45:30,398 --> 00:45:34,358
Speaker 3: her face, that's that's it. And I don't know that

934
00:45:34,438 --> 00:45:37,518
Speaker 3: we necessarily nurture that enough anymore. It's become a little

935
00:45:37,518 --> 00:45:39,838
Speaker 3: bit too complicated. And maybe you can you know, they

936
00:45:39,838 --> 00:45:41,838
Speaker 3: can't put the Genie back in the bottle. I understand that,

937
00:45:41,878 --> 00:45:44,518
Speaker 3: but to me, that's what that represents. When I see

938
00:45:44,558 --> 00:45:47,838
Speaker 3: that kid's face getting in the backseat, you know, I

939
00:45:47,958 --> 00:45:50,358
Speaker 3: kind of putting his arms up whatever and ducking his

940
00:45:50,358 --> 00:45:52,238
Speaker 3: head into the front air front seat area.

941
00:45:52,518 --> 00:45:54,718
Speaker 4: That's it. That's what he was all about.

942
00:45:54,758 --> 00:45:57,158
Speaker 3: That's that's all that was on his on his mind.

943
00:45:57,198 --> 00:45:59,158
Speaker 3: That's what he wanted to be and he was not

944
00:45:59,238 --> 00:46:00,878
Speaker 3: going to be denied. And I love that.

945
00:46:01,318 --> 00:46:04,678
Speaker 1: And let's not forget James Earl Jones also reads another

946
00:46:04,838 --> 00:46:09,398
Speaker 1: generation of baseball fans in the sandlot, which you know,

947
00:46:09,478 --> 00:46:11,798
Speaker 1: that's as pure as it gets. Just the name of

948
00:46:11,838 --> 00:46:14,758
Speaker 1: the movie. And I missed those days when kids played

949
00:46:14,758 --> 00:46:18,838
Speaker 1: baseball without a uniform on. And James Earl Jones, it's

950
00:46:18,878 --> 00:46:22,598
Speaker 1: just an iconic actor of stage, screen, you name it.

951
00:46:22,758 --> 00:46:23,638
Speaker 1: He will be missed.

952
00:46:24,198 --> 00:46:25,118
Speaker 4: Have to be organized.

953
00:46:25,198 --> 00:46:27,318
Speaker 3: Just find a field, right, we will meet there at

954
00:46:27,358 --> 00:46:29,958
Speaker 3: eight thirty in the morning, nine o'clock whatever, and you

955
00:46:30,078 --> 00:46:32,078
Speaker 3: left there and just a game breaks out. You could

956
00:46:32,078 --> 00:46:34,078
Speaker 3: even use stones as bases, like we did up at

957
00:46:34,118 --> 00:46:36,798
Speaker 3: Coriol Stadium when Mike barn and I used to play

958
00:46:36,838 --> 00:46:39,918
Speaker 3: up there in the up beyond the outfield where the

959
00:46:39,918 --> 00:46:42,278
Speaker 3: Little League game might be going on in the stadium itself.

960
00:46:43,038 --> 00:46:43,318
Speaker 4: Again.

961
00:46:43,398 --> 00:46:47,558
Speaker 3: Again, this I don't want to sound, you know, weirdly older, nostalgic,

962
00:46:47,638 --> 00:46:49,238
Speaker 3: but these are the things that we're missing. I mean,

963
00:46:49,278 --> 00:46:51,238
Speaker 3: at that point, the kids have to be creative. You

964
00:46:51,318 --> 00:46:54,158
Speaker 3: have to be creative. You're you're among each other, there's

965
00:46:54,198 --> 00:46:57,798
Speaker 3: no organization, there's no you know, helicopter parenting going on.

966
00:46:57,878 --> 00:47:00,958
Speaker 3: You're really there lifting your own devices to survive and

967
00:47:00,998 --> 00:47:04,318
Speaker 3: do well. Those are the kind of moments that really teach.

968
00:47:04,558 --> 00:47:07,278
Speaker 3: Those are the most teachable moments that you have to

969
00:47:07,398 --> 00:47:09,598
Speaker 3: draw on whatever that is within each one of us

970
00:47:09,638 --> 00:47:11,798
Speaker 3: that we have, it's drawn upon and it has to

971
00:47:11,798 --> 00:47:13,718
Speaker 3: come to the forefront in order to survive or be

972
00:47:13,758 --> 00:47:16,838
Speaker 3: good at something. That's the stuff that I think, you

973
00:47:16,838 --> 00:47:18,638
Speaker 3: know a lot of our kids miss it. It's too

974
00:47:18,758 --> 00:47:21,718
Speaker 3: much with devices and whatever. We get caught on all

975
00:47:21,758 --> 00:47:24,958
Speaker 3: the time, and not enough outside just doing with other kids.

976
00:47:24,998 --> 00:47:27,078
Speaker 4: And that's that's part of our issues. That's part of

977
00:47:27,118 --> 00:47:27,798
Speaker 4: our problems.

978
00:47:28,078 --> 00:47:32,278
Speaker 1: Yeah, unorganized play, it's really important. It is you learn

979
00:47:32,358 --> 00:47:34,718
Speaker 1: to fend for yourself and you also learn to settle

980
00:47:34,798 --> 00:47:37,998
Speaker 1: disputes and you know that, Joe, but it's a big

981
00:47:38,038 --> 00:47:39,878
Speaker 1: part of being a kid and playing a game with

982
00:47:39,918 --> 00:47:42,958
Speaker 1: other kids. You make your own rules and you sell

983
00:47:42,998 --> 00:47:45,238
Speaker 1: your own disputes. I love the power in that.

984
00:47:46,198 --> 00:47:46,478
Speaker 4: Agree.

985
00:47:46,598 --> 00:47:49,598
Speaker 1: Well, this was fun going down memory lane back to Salem, Joe,

986
00:47:49,678 --> 00:47:52,438
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty two. So I'm not sure if you have

987
00:47:52,558 --> 00:47:56,358
Speaker 1: something today to take us home that regards your time

988
00:47:56,398 --> 00:47:58,918
Speaker 1: in Salem, but I know that was a magical year

989
00:47:58,958 --> 00:48:01,118
Speaker 1: for you, as you mentioned your Salem Angels beating the

990
00:48:01,118 --> 00:48:05,118
Speaker 1: Medford A's for the Northwest League, and I'm sure listening

991
00:48:05,198 --> 00:48:07,758
Speaker 1: to Mike Rizzo, it's something that you never forget at

992
00:48:07,758 --> 00:48:10,678
Speaker 1: that stage of your life and that kind of success.

993
00:48:10,998 --> 00:48:14,078
Speaker 3: I'm going to try to explain this properly because I

994
00:48:14,078 --> 00:48:16,918
Speaker 3: think we all you probably experienced it yourself, but I

995
00:48:16,958 --> 00:48:20,078
Speaker 3: think we all talking about passion, talking about what you

996
00:48:20,078 --> 00:48:21,798
Speaker 3: want to be when you grow up, kind of a thing,

997
00:48:22,158 --> 00:48:25,358
Speaker 3: whatever that might be as you as you're going forward

998
00:48:25,358 --> 00:48:28,598
Speaker 3: with that, and whether it's a baseball, whether it's being

999
00:48:28,598 --> 00:48:31,638
Speaker 3: a broadcaster or a journalist, whether it's being a doctor, whatever,

1000
00:48:31,718 --> 00:48:34,718
Speaker 3: there's always this trepidation about it. There's always good enough,

1001
00:48:34,878 --> 00:48:38,758
Speaker 3: there's always these built in fears that you can't even explain,

1002
00:48:38,798 --> 00:48:39,278
Speaker 3: but they're there.

1003
00:48:39,398 --> 00:48:40,478
Speaker 4: I mean, there's something about.

1004
00:48:40,358 --> 00:48:43,278
Speaker 3: Us humans that we have this, this this fear pocket

1005
00:48:43,478 --> 00:48:47,078
Speaker 3: the DNA within us that holds us back, constantly holds

1006
00:48:47,118 --> 00:48:49,038
Speaker 3: us back until you get to the point where you

1007
00:48:49,038 --> 00:48:52,478
Speaker 3: eventually eventually realize that I got to fight through this,

1008
00:48:52,918 --> 00:48:54,598
Speaker 3: I got to feel the fear and do it anyway

1009
00:48:54,718 --> 00:48:58,278
Speaker 3: and not permit this whatever that is, because it's it's

1010
00:48:58,358 --> 00:49:00,158
Speaker 3: just it's just there that we've got to get beyond

1011
00:49:00,158 --> 00:49:02,838
Speaker 3: that in order to really achieve and become what we

1012
00:49:02,918 --> 00:49:03,638
Speaker 3: want to become.

1013
00:49:04,198 --> 00:49:07,238
Speaker 4: And it's really important. So again, this was it today.

1014
00:49:07,758 --> 00:49:11,238
Speaker 3: A lady by name of Isabella laflesh l A F

1015
00:49:11,358 --> 00:49:13,718
Speaker 3: L E C h G. I guess she's a writer journalist.

1016
00:49:13,718 --> 00:49:16,038
Speaker 3: I didn't know until I looked it up, but this

1017
00:49:16,118 --> 00:49:18,798
Speaker 3: is exactly one hundred percent accurate, and it's remaine what

1018
00:49:18,798 --> 00:49:22,638
Speaker 3: we're talking about. Your passion is waiting for your courage

1019
00:49:22,678 --> 00:49:24,198
Speaker 3: to catch up, period.

1020
00:49:24,598 --> 00:49:26,518
Speaker 4: And that's it. I mean, for me to become a

1021
00:49:26,558 --> 00:49:28,718
Speaker 4: major league manager, my courage had to catch up with

1022
00:49:28,758 --> 00:49:29,358
Speaker 4: my passion.

1023
00:49:29,598 --> 00:49:32,158
Speaker 3: For you to become even a minor league player, your

1024
00:49:32,238 --> 00:49:34,758
Speaker 3: courage has to catch up with your passion. And once

1025
00:49:34,798 --> 00:49:37,718
Speaker 3: it does, and then you and you just then you're

1026
00:49:37,718 --> 00:49:40,598
Speaker 3: able to breathe and be yourself, and then you you

1027
00:49:40,678 --> 00:49:42,838
Speaker 3: demonstrate or give to the world exactly who you are.

1028
00:49:43,158 --> 00:49:45,438
Speaker 3: There's there's no holding back because this is who I am.

1029
00:49:45,558 --> 00:49:47,358
Speaker 3: Kind of have to overthinking. I don't have to worry

1030
00:49:47,358 --> 00:49:50,678
Speaker 3: about saying the wrong thing or making a mistake whatever.

1031
00:49:50,878 --> 00:49:53,558
Speaker 3: I'm just telling you this is this is who I am.

1032
00:49:53,598 --> 00:49:57,118
Speaker 3: So your passion is waiting for your courage to catch up,

1033
00:49:57,558 --> 00:49:59,398
Speaker 3: I think in order to be highly successful.

1034
00:49:59,798 --> 00:50:02,078
Speaker 1: I love that. It really reminds me of one of

1035
00:50:02,118 --> 00:50:06,078
Speaker 1: my favorite lines Joe and was when Vince Gully answered

1036
00:50:06,118 --> 00:50:08,878
Speaker 1: my question how could you be so good for so long?

1037
00:50:09,118 --> 00:50:12,598
Speaker 1: And he said, the humility to prepare and the confidence

1038
00:50:12,638 --> 00:50:13,398
Speaker 1: to pull it off.

1039
00:50:13,598 --> 00:50:13,958
Speaker 4: There you go.

1040
00:50:14,438 --> 00:50:17,558
Speaker 1: You know that really struck me even today talking with

1041
00:50:17,638 --> 00:50:20,318
Speaker 1: Mike Rizzo. You heard him talk about all the people

1042
00:50:20,358 --> 00:50:23,398
Speaker 1: that are around him, the Major League staff, the analytics department, everything,

1043
00:50:23,598 --> 00:50:26,358
Speaker 1: and yet he sat there and said that he also

1044
00:50:26,478 --> 00:50:29,198
Speaker 1: is confident in knowing what he knows, that he knows

1045
00:50:29,278 --> 00:50:31,638
Speaker 1: the game of baseball. And I tell people all the

1046
00:50:31,678 --> 00:50:34,398
Speaker 1: time we all need mentors, you know, growing up and

1047
00:50:34,518 --> 00:50:38,878
Speaker 1: establishing ourselves as professionals. Well before that, we need opportunity,

1048
00:50:38,998 --> 00:50:41,798
Speaker 1: and we need encouragement. But there comes a point and

1049
00:50:41,838 --> 00:50:44,798
Speaker 1: you hit this perfectly, Joe with that quote, where it

1050
00:50:44,918 --> 00:50:47,158
Speaker 1: has to come from within and you have to have

1051
00:50:47,238 --> 00:50:50,118
Speaker 1: that inter strength, that interconfidence, so that I love that.

1052
00:50:50,118 --> 00:50:52,398
Speaker 1: That's great advice at any stage in life.

1053
00:50:52,558 --> 00:50:55,758
Speaker 4: It's something that I could speak from a personal experience.

1054
00:50:56,118 --> 00:50:56,878
Speaker 4: Just briefly.

1055
00:50:56,958 --> 00:50:59,758
Speaker 3: When I got the job as the Raised manager, you know,

1056
00:50:59,758 --> 00:51:02,038
Speaker 3: I had been a backup singer.

1057
00:51:02,038 --> 00:51:04,678
Speaker 4: I was never lead singer before. And my agent was.

1058
00:51:04,598 --> 00:51:07,278
Speaker 3: Tommy Tanger and along with Allen Ero at the time.

1059
00:51:07,318 --> 00:51:10,598
Speaker 3: And Tommy came to the introductory press conference in Tampa

1060
00:51:10,638 --> 00:51:13,518
Speaker 3: Bay and so there's a bunch of people was in

1061
00:51:13,518 --> 00:51:16,918
Speaker 3: that outfield restaurant whatever, and of course you go to

1062
00:51:16,998 --> 00:51:18,998
Speaker 3: the press conference. You start up, but you know, talking

1063
00:51:19,038 --> 00:51:20,638
Speaker 3: about what you want to talk about, and then eventually

1064
00:51:20,678 --> 00:51:23,558
Speaker 3: ask you questions. But Tommy afterwards said, I've never heard

1065
00:51:23,598 --> 00:51:25,838
Speaker 3: you speak like that and never heard you say those

1066
00:51:25,838 --> 00:51:28,198
Speaker 3: things because basically.

1067
00:51:27,998 --> 00:51:30,278
Speaker 4: My courage caught up with my passion. That's pretty much

1068
00:51:30,318 --> 00:51:30,918
Speaker 4: what occurred.

1069
00:51:31,278 --> 00:51:33,238
Speaker 3: And then once you're holding your own baby man and

1070
00:51:33,278 --> 00:51:35,798
Speaker 3: protecting your own family, it's completely different.

1071
00:51:35,918 --> 00:51:36,798
Speaker 4: And that's what happened.

1072
00:51:37,118 --> 00:51:39,758
Speaker 1: Joe Madden, lead singer. We're going to save that for

1073
00:51:39,838 --> 00:51:40,758
Speaker 1: another episode.

1074
00:51:41,318 --> 00:51:42,118
Speaker 4: You cut it ahead.

1075
00:51:42,198 --> 00:51:43,838
Speaker 1: This is fun, Joe. We'll see you next time. I

1076
00:51:43,878 --> 00:51:44,518
Speaker 1: Love We'll get Joe.

1077
00:51:44,758 --> 00:51:54,678
Speaker 4: Thanks Tommy.

1078
00:51:55,518 --> 00:51:58,758
Speaker 1: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeart Radio.

1079
00:51:58,958 --> 00:52:02,798
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

1080
00:52:02,878 --> 00:52:05,838
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.