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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Anny and Samantha.

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Speaker 2: I'm of some stuff.

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Speaker 3: I never told you a protection of iHeartRadio and today

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Speaker 3: we are so happy to be joined by relationship coach, screenwriter, author,

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Speaker 3: podcaster so much more Allison Askin, thank you so much

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Speaker 3: for joining us.

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Speaker 4: Hey, welcome, Ah, thank you for having me.

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Speaker 5: It is a delight to be here.

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Speaker 3: It is a delight.

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Speaker 2: I have to say.

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Speaker 3: I was reading one of your books last night and

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Speaker 3: I was crying.

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Speaker 2: You've got me good.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I was just I was just thinking about things.

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Speaker 3: I was just being introspective, which we're going to talk about,

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Speaker 3: but you brought up a lot of like, you know what,

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Speaker 3: I should really examine that, I should really think about

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Speaker 3: that for me. But yes, we're so so so excited

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Speaker 3: to have you. We're so lucky we get to talk

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Speaker 3: to amazing people in the show. Can you please introduce

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Speaker 3: yourself to our audience.

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Speaker 4: I can, and I will try to be as concise

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Speaker 4: as possible, just because I've done a.

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Speaker 5: Lot of different things.

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Speaker 4: But I'd say that how I present myself now is

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Speaker 4: I'm a relationship coach, a mental health advocate, and I'm

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Speaker 4: also a podcaster and writer. So I came up you

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Speaker 4: if you were big into BuzzFeed video back in the day.

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Speaker 4: That sort of launched my career. From there, I had

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Speaker 4: a YouTube channel called Just between Us that's now a

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Speaker 4: podcast with my co host, Gabe Dunn. And then in

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Speaker 4: addition to just going the more like mainstream like trying

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Speaker 4: to sell TV shows, movies, track, I also sort of

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Speaker 4: took this pivot in my career into like the mental

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Speaker 4: health space. So I got a master's degree in psychology,

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Speaker 4: and I've written two nonfiction books about the intersection between

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Speaker 4: mental health and romantic relationships. And then, most recently, which

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Speaker 4: I'm really excited to talk about, I have my first

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Speaker 4: rom com novel coming out, which sort of lets me

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Speaker 4: examine all of those things in a fictional fun lens.

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Speaker 4: And that book is called Save the Date and it's

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Speaker 4: out April eighth. So I'm very excited to be venturing

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Speaker 4: into that new genre as an author and just as

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Speaker 4: like a fan.

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Speaker 6: Yes.

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Speaker 3: Oh, we're going to talk about that more for sure later.

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Speaker 3: But congratulations, that's awesome, Thank you. Yes, it is difficult

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Speaker 3: when we have there are so many topics we could

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Speaker 3: obviously ask you about because you have done so much,

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Speaker 3: and it can be hard to narrow it down to

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Speaker 3: this can't be like a ten part series. Well I

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Speaker 3: guess it could be, but that's not what it is. Today.

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Speaker 5: I am available.

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Speaker 1: As a regular because that's a huge topic in conversation.

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Speaker 1: Relationships and mental health. Is that, Man, it's a lot.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a lot to cover, it is, and that

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Speaker 3: was definitely one of the things we wanted to focus

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Speaker 3: on in this conversation because you talk a lot about

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Speaker 3: the intersection of mental health when it comes to relationships.

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Speaker 3: So just to give us kind of a foundation, can

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Speaker 3: you break down some basic ways that mental health and

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Speaker 3: relationships can intersect.

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Speaker 4: Definitely, So I really like to think about it as

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Speaker 4: romantic relationships, and a lot of what I end up

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Speaker 4: saying about romantic relationships do apply to you know, friendships,

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Speaker 4: family relationships. But you know, for the sake of clarity,

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Speaker 4: I kind of come into it through the romantic relationship lens.

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Speaker 4: You know, that's the area of our life where we

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Speaker 4: are the most vulnerable, where we are expected to be

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Speaker 4: like the most intimate, and it's also.

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Speaker 5: An area of our life where rejection.

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Speaker 4: Is the most common outcome, right Like often, you know,

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Speaker 4: we feel a different not everyone, but there's you know,

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Speaker 4: like friendship breakups aren't talked about the same way like

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Speaker 4: family estrangement obviously happens, but it's definitely not the norm

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Speaker 4: where when you enter into the dating world, like rejection

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Speaker 4: is sort of inevitable, right, And so it can really

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Speaker 4: impact our mental health in this way because on the

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Speaker 4: one hand, it can just really alter our sense of

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Speaker 4: self and the way that we handle that rejection and

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Speaker 4: the beliefs we have around rejection. And additionally, because it's

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Speaker 4: this area where we are so vulnerable, it can sort

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Speaker 4: of exacerbate underlying mental health issues that we might be

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Speaker 4: dealing with. So it might be this sense of where

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Speaker 4: we're losing control of ourselves, where our anxiety is peaked

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Speaker 4: more than it would normally be, or it's just that

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Speaker 4: you struggle with your mental health and now you're having

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Speaker 4: to have this new person be witnessed to that right

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Speaker 4: to see what it is like to live with OCD,

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Speaker 4: what it is like to live with being bipolar, to

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Speaker 4: really let them in with this understanding that they can

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Speaker 4: then say no thank you, which is really terrifying.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it certainly is. And you were You've been very

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Speaker 3: open about your own experiences in that realm of having

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Speaker 3: something like OCD and dating and how that can manifest

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Speaker 3: in this huge variety of ways. Can you talk a

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Speaker 3: little bit about some of the ways that dating can

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Speaker 3: look differently for someone who has anxiety or who has OCD.

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Speaker 4: So the obsessionality can be really amped up, right, So,

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Speaker 4: like I remember when I was dating, like if someone

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Speaker 4: didn't text me back, that became intolerable, Like I could

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Speaker 4: not just exist in the world knowing that someone I

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Speaker 4: liked had in texted me back, Like it was it

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Speaker 4: was all consuming, it was all I thought about. And

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Speaker 4: then the reaction is to try to make that distress

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Speaker 4: go away by sending the second text, by sending the

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Speaker 4: third text, by sort of engaging in this way that

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Speaker 4: I objectively knew was not how I wanted to be

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Speaker 4: presenting myself to that person, but I felt unable to

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Speaker 4: control it because my desire to alleviate the discomfort was

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Speaker 4: so huge. And so that's sort of how we can

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Speaker 4: sort of like lose track of ourselves where it's like

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Speaker 4: why did I behave like that?

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Speaker 5: It's like, because you.

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Speaker 4: Were just so in such dysregulation and so much distress,

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Speaker 4: you were doing anything you could to feel better. But

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Speaker 4: unfortunately the roots to feel better ended up maybe harming

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Speaker 4: the relationship that you were trying to st Also, just

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Speaker 4: the idea of checking, right, Like a lot of OCD

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Speaker 4: can be around checking if that something is okay. So

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Speaker 4: the checking of like, you know, do you like me?

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Speaker 4: Do you like me enough? Where is this going? You know?

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Speaker 4: I was very insistent on feeling like it was heading

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Speaker 4: every relationship was heading towards commitment, and then every relationship

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Speaker 4: was heading towards marriage and unfortunately, like that's not like

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Speaker 4: super fun or viable in your mid twenties with a

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Speaker 4: lot of people, and you know, looking back at the time,

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Speaker 4: I was like, well, that's just what I wanted for myself.

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Speaker 4: And now I realized like it was me trying to

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Speaker 4: find a sense of safety. I felt that if I

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Speaker 4: could get to that level of commitment, then I could

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Speaker 4: finally relax, I could finally feel in control of my life.

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Speaker 4: And it was only once I had my broken engagement

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Speaker 4: and my fiance left that I was like, oh, these

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Speaker 4: goalposts don't actually provide safety. Like you can be engaged,

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Speaker 4: they can leave abruptly in the middle of the week.

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Speaker 4: You can be married and you end up divorce. Like

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Speaker 4: the illusion of safety doesn't actually exist or protect you.

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Speaker 4: And so I've had to really reshape my relationship towards

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Speaker 4: uncertainty in all areas of my life and my tolerance

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Speaker 4: for discomfort to be able to still strive to have

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Speaker 4: the relationships that I want to have while accepting the

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Speaker 4: risk that's inherent in having them.

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Speaker 1: Sounds like you've had to work through a lot in

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Speaker 1: get in getting here, as well as learning about it

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Speaker 1: through an educational lens, which is I'm very fascinated by this.

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Speaker 1: We'll come back to that, because one of the things

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Speaker 1: when you talk about relationships and when you talk about

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Speaker 1: mental health lately, that's a whole TikTok trip, right, Everybody

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Speaker 1: trying to find these little like diagnosis and telling you

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Speaker 1: what's wrong with you and telling you have this and

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Speaker 1: these are the signs in your relationships. But with that,

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Speaker 1: we know people get it wrong. So what are some

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Speaker 1: of the things that you think a lot of people

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Speaker 1: get wrong when they think about this or have this

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Speaker 1: conversation or try to do this as a trend.

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Speaker 4: I have a very mixed relationship towards diagnosing and pathologizing

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Speaker 4: because for me, having had an OCD diagnos since since

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Speaker 4: I was four years old was actually so helpful and

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Speaker 4: so affirmative in my life that the way that I

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Speaker 4: was behaving was because of a disorder in my brain.

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Speaker 4: Like I take a very externalizing approach to my OCD.

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Speaker 4: I view it as an illness. I view it as

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Speaker 4: something that is on top of my true self. And

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Speaker 4: by being able to do that and being able to

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Speaker 4: label certain thoughts as OCD thoughts, it allows me to

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Speaker 4: stay true to who I am and to not give

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Speaker 4: it as much.

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Speaker 5: Power over me.

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Speaker 4: So I'm very pro diagnosis when it is helpful and.

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Speaker 5: True, right.

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Speaker 4: I think that sometimes there can be an overpathologizing that

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Speaker 4: is happening that actually leads to a lack of flexibility

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Speaker 4: that is necessary for us to like adapt to what

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Speaker 4: is actually happening in our different context. It's like, and

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Speaker 4: it can also lead to sort of like limited information

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Speaker 4: around something if you're getting it from just like a

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Speaker 4: really quick and easy source.

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Speaker 5: Like so, for.

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Speaker 4: Example, there's like a lot around attachment style. That's that's

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Speaker 4: very you know, zeitgeisty and attachment is a really important

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Speaker 4: thing to understand and it's helpful to know about. But

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Speaker 4: I think something people don't understand is that your attachment

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Speaker 4: style can change, right like and and honestly the goal

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Speaker 4: is for it to change and to become secure. And

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Speaker 4: also your attachment style can show up differently in different relationships.

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Speaker 4: So it's I think that some people have taken it

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Speaker 4: on as an identity and I find I find that

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Speaker 4: that could potentially be harmful because it it it makes

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Speaker 4: it seem like growth is impossible and that change in

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Speaker 4: relationship isn't possible. And it also it becomes this shorthand

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Speaker 4: that sort of oversimplifies the complexity that is each of

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Speaker 4: our own individual experiences.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, and that that's one of the things I love

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Speaker 3: about your writing is that you are you delve into

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Speaker 3: those complexities and those nuances and how it can because

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Speaker 3: I feel like a lot of times, you know, when

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Speaker 3: you're in a relationship or when you break up, you

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Speaker 3: want to be like that person was wrong. It definitely

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Speaker 3: wasn't me that kind of that kind of talk, but

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Speaker 3: you were, you were very like, well, here's what was

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Speaker 3: going on here, and hear what was going on here,

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Speaker 3: like looking into all of all of what was happening

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Speaker 3: and the mistakes people made. But something else you talked

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Speaker 3: about that really resonated with me. Is that you for

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Speaker 3: a while held onto this belief that you would find

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Speaker 3: your one true love and they would fix you, that

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Speaker 3: would be that that's just what you needed, and it

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Speaker 3: was like part of your driving factor of why you

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Speaker 3: wanted to find this life partner and why it was

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Speaker 3: so stressful and when it came to dating. So can

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Speaker 3: you talk about why that was and what it meant

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Speaker 3: for you when you realized that it wasn't true.

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Speaker 4: I think a lot of it had to do with,

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Speaker 4: you know, growing up mentally ill and not having good

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Speaker 4: social skills and really struggling in my friendships and in dating,

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Speaker 4: and feeling like an outsider that I wasn't living life

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Speaker 4: correctly and that I was just like waiting for the

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Speaker 4: next phase, like for my life to really start and

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Speaker 4: begin and to feel comfortable in my own skin. And

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Speaker 4: I really felt that by being chosen, by having this

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Speaker 4: like life partner and buddy, that I could like relax,

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Speaker 4: you know, that I could sink into that. My parents

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Speaker 4: had a really beautiful marriage until my mother unfortunately passed

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Speaker 4: away this last September, and they were such a rock

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Speaker 4: for me that I was like, well, if I can

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Speaker 4: just get what they have, then I'll finally feel like

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Speaker 4: at peace with myself and I'll be able to engage

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Speaker 4: in life and enjoy my experiences more. And you know

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Speaker 4: what shifted for me wasn't that I stopped wanting a partner, right, Like,

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Speaker 4: that's like a that would be like a fun neat

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Speaker 4: story of like, and then I learned I just needed

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Speaker 4: to be by myself. Like that's actually not my journey

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Speaker 4: and a narrative that I kind of actively push against

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Speaker 4: because what I've come to understand is having a life

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Speaker 4: partner or having periods of your life with the partner.

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Speaker 4: You know, not all partnerships last till death, but it's

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Speaker 4: a lifestyle choice. It's just a way that you build

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Speaker 4: your day to day life that is different than people

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Speaker 4: that don't want that choice, right, Like, I'm someone that

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Speaker 4: just genuinely thrives and enjoys partnership. I really love living

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Speaker 4: with my husband. I love having a husband. I love

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Speaker 4: the friendship that our marriage brings with it. I love

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Speaker 4: that like there's another person to walk the dog, that

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Speaker 4: there's someone that makes me dinner and that I show

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Speaker 4: up for and he shows up for me, and we

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Speaker 4: are checking in on each other, and there is like

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Speaker 4: this interdependence that I really find a lot of strength

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Speaker 4: and freedom in, Like I always say, like, it would

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Speaker 4: have been much harder for me to complete my grad

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Speaker 4: school program if I didn't have my husband there like

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Speaker 4: helping me. And now he's in grad school full time

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Speaker 4: and I'm supporting him while he does that, and that's like,

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Speaker 4: that's like sort of what like the strength of partnership.

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Speaker 4: But what I had to adjust to was this idea

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Speaker 4: that without that piece, I was worthless, right, because that's

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Speaker 4: a step that's unnecessary. It's unnecessary to say that without

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Speaker 4: someone picking me, I my life has no value or

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Speaker 4: something is wrong with me. Instead, it was coming to

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Speaker 4: terms with the fact that like I had to really

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Speaker 4: like myself. I had to become someone that I really liked,

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Speaker 4: and then through that I could attract someone that felt

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Speaker 4: the same way, rather than attracting someone that maybe like

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Speaker 4: was like half in not in or feeling like I

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Speaker 4: had to change for them. And it also created this

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Speaker 4: different dynamic where when I was dating, it was like

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Speaker 4: take me, like not take me or leave me, because

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Speaker 4: I you know, I don't like love the If you

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Speaker 4: can't have me at my worst, you know you don't

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Speaker 4: deserve me.

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Speaker 5: At my best.

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Speaker 4: Like we we're responsible for our our actions and we

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Speaker 4: shouldn't treat our partners badly. But you know, like a

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Speaker 4: level of like someone's rejection did not sway me the

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Speaker 4: way that it would have because I was more secure

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Speaker 4: in who I was. So it became safer to engage

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Speaker 4: with dating because rejection, while painful, wasn't mentally dangerous. It

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Speaker 4: wasn't destabilizing in the same way. It was more like, Okay,

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Speaker 4: onto the next because like, I know what I want

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Speaker 4: and who I am, and I like that, and so

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Speaker 4: that was the shift more so than rejecting my desire

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Speaker 4: for partnership.

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Speaker 5: If that makes sense.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense. I'm

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Speaker 1: not gonna lie. I'm sitting here. I'm like analyzing the

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Speaker 1: characters of Sex and the City as I know. That's

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Speaker 1: a weird moment. I'm like, Charlotte really needed to hear this.

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Speaker 5: I absolutely love that that's where you were going.

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Speaker 1: I don't know why that just popped in my head,

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Speaker 1: but I was like, yeah, instead of myself probably absolute

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Speaker 1: need this advice. I'm just like Charlotte, I'm definitely hard.

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Speaker 4: She's someone that thrives in partnership, right, but she had

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Speaker 4: to figure out how to how to approach it in

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Speaker 4: a in a healthier way.

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Speaker 1: See, maybe we need to you back on to watch.

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Speaker 1: We do a series where we watch and then analyze

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Speaker 1: what's happening and how well it stood up at the

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Speaker 1: test of time. Maybe we need you to come and

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Speaker 1: be a part of that episode.

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Speaker 5: I would be honored.

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Speaker 1: I love that show for better worse.

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Speaker 5: I could watch it all day long, every day.

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Speaker 1: All with all the bad, there's some real good stuff

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Speaker 1: in it, and the rewatch has been amazing. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think we're gonna have to put that as a

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Speaker 1: side note. Alan Text in the City Obviously, Again, all

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Speaker 1: this is such great advice, and you're writing it out

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Speaker 1: to give this people advice. You're also doing the relationship coaching,

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Speaker 1: which I know you said you've done a few appointments

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Speaker 1: today just today alone, which is awesome. So in your

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Speaker 1: work you've spoken about disparities you've seen around mental health

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Speaker 1: and the marginalized folks and the communities. Can you speak

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Speaker 1: about that, because that's seems like such a big important

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Speaker 1: conversation we don't have enough of when it comes to relationships.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: So, I mean, look, the history of psychology is not

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Speaker 4: a pretty one. It's like been very much built around

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Speaker 4: like white males, like white straight males, and so I

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Speaker 4: understand why there's definitely reluctance in certain communities to really

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Speaker 4: engage with mental health treatment and mental health professionals because

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Speaker 4: there's an inherent distrust that I think deserves to be there.

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Speaker 4: And I find that to be just kind of heartbreaking

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Speaker 4: for those communities because you know, for every bad clinician,

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Speaker 4: there's a good clinician, and so it but the issue

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Speaker 4: is how do you rebuild the trust in different communities

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Speaker 4: that either are have had negative experiences or have been

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Speaker 4: taught that that's not something that they should seek out

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Speaker 4: because there's still a.

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Speaker 5: Lot of stigma around it. And so what I'm really.

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Speaker 4: Hoping is is just that the access you know, that's

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Speaker 4: one of the positives of this social media at all,

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Speaker 4: is like having access to more voices in the in

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Speaker 4: the mental health field, hearing from other people who have

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Speaker 4: had better experiences. And something I think that's really important

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Speaker 4: to do is to make it known what bad therapy

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Speaker 4: looks like, because if you don't know what bad therapy

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Speaker 4: looks like, you might be having a bad experience and thinking, well,

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Speaker 4: that's me or you know, like I'm not fixable or

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Speaker 4: I'm just a bad client, and it's like, no, there

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Speaker 4: are just bad therapists help there and we don't ever

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Speaker 4: talk about that. And so like things to look for are,

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Speaker 4: you know, as someone who is like tries to assume

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Speaker 4: expertise over your own life, right, like you're the expert

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Speaker 4: in your life, and someone that is a ten to

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Speaker 4: like overpower that or in some way really use like

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Speaker 4: an even power dynamic to put you down if you're

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Speaker 4: feeling judged by a therapist, if you feel like your

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Speaker 4: therapist has absolutely no understanding of your culture. You know,

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Speaker 4: you see this a lot where people from certain really

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Speaker 4: community family focused cultures, the therapists will just be like, well,

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Speaker 4: just don't just don't see your parents, like just don't

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Speaker 4: go to family events anymore, if like that's stressful to you,

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Speaker 4: and it's like, excuse me, I'm from like a Latin

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Speaker 4: community and I can't possibly do that, Like what are

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Speaker 4: you talking about? You know, So finding therapists that are

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Speaker 4: you know, have cultural humility is really important. Finding therapists

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Speaker 4: that understand what you're actually dealing with. Not all therapists

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Speaker 4: are specialized in every.

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Speaker 5: Issue or disorder.

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Speaker 4: Right, so there's going to be therapists that are not

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Speaker 4: very familiar with OCD, or therapists that are not super

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Speaker 4: trauma informed and then are trying to CBT your way

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Speaker 4: out of trauma. That isn't going to work. And so

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Speaker 4: I think really empowering people to have a better understanding

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Speaker 4: of what to expect and to let them know that

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Speaker 4: these are people that they're they're flawed and that, and

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Speaker 4: that you're allowed to be picky around who you who

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Speaker 4: you engage with, and and you know, having started this

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Speaker 4: coaching business, I definitely had some reservations around being a

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Speaker 4: relationship coach, especially having gotten a master's in psychology and

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Speaker 4: being in school with people that were going the licensing route,

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Speaker 4: and you know, part of me was like, is this unethical?

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Speaker 4: Like am I just sort of like cheating the system

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Speaker 4: by you know, being a.

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Speaker 5: Coach where I don't have a I don't have a license.

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Speaker 5: There is not a.

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Speaker 4: Licensing board that is supervising, you know that, Like someone

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Speaker 4: can't just like go and complain to me about me

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Speaker 4: to a licensing board. But what's been really interesting in

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Speaker 4: doing the work is I think that coaching allows for

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Speaker 4: some freedom and directiveness that traditional therapy doesn't. And so

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Speaker 4: I think that there really is space for both of

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Speaker 4: these things, and it's about what you want and what

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Speaker 4: you're looking for. So one of the reasons I didn't

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Speaker 4: become a licensed therapist is because I'm a public figure.

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Speaker 4: I mean, you probably haven't heard of me, but if

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Speaker 4: you look me up on the internet, there's like, you know,

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Speaker 4: hundreds of hours of me talking.

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Speaker 5: You can read my books like you can.

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Speaker 4: You know so much about me if you wanted to

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Speaker 4: engage with that, And I felt like that wasn't going

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Speaker 4: to be safe for certain clients under the traditional therapy model.

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Speaker 4: I felt like that if you're going to a therapist,

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Speaker 4: you really want them to be maybe not a blank slate,

395
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Speaker 4: but to not know the intimate personal details of their life.

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Speaker 4: That's just not what the what the field is set

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Speaker 4: up around. And so I felt like I couldn't really

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Speaker 4: work within the confines of therapy.

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Speaker 5: But I also felt like I.

400
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Speaker 4: Really did want to do this work with people and coaching,

401
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Speaker 4: I think the buy in is so different. The buy

402
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Speaker 4: in is that they do know who I am, and

403
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Speaker 4: that they do know the things that I have gone through,

404
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Speaker 4: and so like maybe whereas like if you went to

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Speaker 4: your therapist and you were like, I just saw video

406
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Speaker 4: that you had a broken engagement, Like why would I

407
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Speaker 4: trust you? My clients come to me and they're like,

408
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Speaker 4: I saw you survived a broken engagement.

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Speaker 5: That's why I trust you.

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Speaker 4: And so I think it's kind of exciting that there

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Speaker 4: are these two kind of different options. And coaching also

412
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Speaker 4: really allows me to be much more directive, Like I

413
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Speaker 4: can give my opinion in a way that like therapists

414
00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:02,280
Speaker 4: really are not supposed to. I do it with you know,

415
00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:05,040
Speaker 4: in communication with my client, I'm always like, you can

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Speaker 4: push back, you don't have to agree with me. How

417
00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:09,920
Speaker 4: is this feeling? But they're they're they're coming to me

418
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Speaker 4: because they want a more directive approach, And I think

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Speaker 4: that that can really be an avenue for people who,

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Speaker 4: you know, have felt maybe that therapy was just them

421
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Speaker 4: talking and they weren't really getting the advice or tools

422
00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:28,919
Speaker 4: or strategies that they're looking for. And and so I

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Speaker 4: think it's I think it's exciting that that there's both.

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Speaker 4: But you know, I also have a huge obligation to

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Speaker 4: be as ethical as possible, to let people know my limitations,

426
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Speaker 4: to make it very clear I'm not licensed, but I

427
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Speaker 4: think I think whereas when I started this it was

428
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Speaker 4: more like, oh, no, is it bad, I'm not a therapist.

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Speaker 4: Now I'm like, oh, I love that I'm not a therapist.

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Speaker 1: Right, No, I think that that makes perfect sense because

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Speaker 1: a lot of people who come into like coaching routes,

432
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Speaker 1: like life coaching all that, oftentimes do it because they're

433
00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:02,040
Speaker 1: they're good at giving advice and people like their advice.

434
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Speaker 1: But the fact that you actually went ahead and did

435
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Speaker 1: your education and did a background that says a lot

436
00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:10,119
Speaker 1: to how grounded you are in that work. So absolutely

437
00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:13,159
Speaker 1: kudos with all of that. And I do have a

438
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Speaker 1: couple of questions. My background is in social work, and

439
00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:18,879
Speaker 1: honestly I did not go into licensing or any of

440
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Speaker 1: that as well. I did not do the micro practices

441
00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:25,280
Speaker 1: in general, however, cause I do have two parts, so

442
00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:28,920
Speaker 1: one I'll split it up. So here's the first part.

443
00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:31,080
Speaker 1: What's the advice you have when it comes to talking

444
00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:33,400
Speaker 1: about your mental health with a partner.

445
00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:37,679
Speaker 4: This is really tricky, right, because sometimes when you're just

446
00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:41,160
Speaker 4: starting to date and you've had a pretty significant mental

447
00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:45,520
Speaker 4: health history, there's a desire to sort of share compulsively

448
00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:48,080
Speaker 4: where it's like, let me just put it all out

449
00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:49,960
Speaker 4: there so that you can either say yes or.

450
00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:52,679
Speaker 5: No to my entire life.

451
00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:55,520
Speaker 4: And what I really advise people to do instead is

452
00:25:55,600 --> 00:26:00,720
Speaker 4: to share with purpose and to being control of the

453
00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:05,280
Speaker 4: sharing and what they're sharing and why they're sharing it. So,

454
00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:09,320
Speaker 4: for example, you know, if you are just still casually

455
00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:12,200
Speaker 4: getting to know someone, it might be okay to be like, yeah,

456
00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:15,040
Speaker 4: I have anxiety, I take you know, I take zol

457
00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:17,960
Speaker 4: Oft and I found it really helpful, and then you

458
00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:21,800
Speaker 4: like continue bowling. But if you are getting you know,

459
00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:25,520
Speaker 4: deeper and more close with someone, then it can make

460
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:29,040
Speaker 4: sense to go more into like all the history and

461
00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:32,480
Speaker 4: the things that have happened. But also I think it's

462
00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:36,719
Speaker 4: it can be really important to lead with who you

463
00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:41,000
Speaker 4: are now right because sometimes there are elements of our

464
00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:46,639
Speaker 4: mental health story that can be rather shocking and upsetting

465
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:51,680
Speaker 4: but is not necessarily a representative of who we are

466
00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:54,679
Speaker 4: in this moment, and so I think it can be

467
00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:57,720
Speaker 4: important to say, like, you know, right now, like I'm

468
00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:00,439
Speaker 4: in therapy, I'm doing really well, this is something that

469
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:02,919
Speaker 4: I'm on top of. Yes, in the past, like I

470
00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:06,720
Speaker 4: did really struggle with suicidal ideation, and maybe you know,

471
00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:10,160
Speaker 4: maybe you even had an attempt, but that's different than

472
00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:14,600
Speaker 4: being actively suicidal in this moment, and like being able

473
00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:16,600
Speaker 4: to say, like, and here are the steps that I

474
00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:21,399
Speaker 4: took to protect myself from you know, falling back into

475
00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:25,160
Speaker 4: that into that place. And so I think that really

476
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:29,480
Speaker 4: presenting your mental health history as something that is your

477
00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:35,520
Speaker 4: responsibility is also a way to keep the person from

478
00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:38,840
Speaker 4: feeling like they are now taking on that by being

479
00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:41,480
Speaker 4: with you. It's really saying like, this is a thing

480
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:43,800
Speaker 4: that I've been dealing with and that I'm I'm on

481
00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:47,600
Speaker 4: top of, and so I'm telling you because I want

482
00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:50,080
Speaker 4: you to get to know me more, not because this

483
00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:53,919
Speaker 4: is your problem to deal with or to fix. And

484
00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:56,520
Speaker 4: if you're someone where it's like you're in a place

485
00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:59,240
Speaker 4: where you don't really have a handle on those things,

486
00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:01,320
Speaker 4: then that might just be as that might just be

487
00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:04,240
Speaker 4: an indicator that that looking for a relationship right now

488
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:06,760
Speaker 4: might not be the might not be the best thing

489
00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:07,080
Speaker 4: for you.

490
00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:10,240
Speaker 1: That's one of those moments where like when you're coming

491
00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:13,800
Speaker 1: out with all the trauma all at once, with all

492
00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:16,199
Speaker 1: the peoples, you might want to think about handling that

493
00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:18,480
Speaker 1: trauma just for a minute.

494
00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:22,560
Speaker 4: But the way with the way we share signals how

495
00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:26,119
Speaker 4: the other person receives it. Right, So if I share

496
00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:29,800
Speaker 4: with shame, if I share with agitation, if I share

497
00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:32,920
Speaker 4: with the expectation that you're going to be shocked or

498
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:38,760
Speaker 4: uncomfortable or like really uninterested afterwards, then that person's going

499
00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:42,280
Speaker 4: to kind of take take those that agitation and feelings on.

500
00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:44,560
Speaker 4: But if you share from a place of ownership, if

501
00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:47,280
Speaker 4: you share from a place of I have I have

502
00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:50,080
Speaker 4: an understanding of this, I have a conceptualization of what

503
00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:53,280
Speaker 4: has happened, and I'm just giving you information so that

504
00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:55,320
Speaker 4: you can get to know me. The way they're going

505
00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:59,840
Speaker 4: to receive that information is likely different, all right.

506
00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:02,200
Speaker 1: So this is the second part, because as a person

507
00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:04,840
Speaker 1: who's been in the field for a while, how do you,

508
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:08,480
Speaker 1: as the person who has seen these things, has worked

509
00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:13,640
Speaker 1: with people, separate analyzing everybody to death from your relationships?

510
00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:15,680
Speaker 1: Do you know what I mean? When I come into

511
00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:18,360
Speaker 1: like new relationship, my immediate with like, let me diagnose

512
00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:20,800
Speaker 1: them with the following things. These are things that I

513
00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:23,280
Speaker 1: see of you, like, how do you do how do

514
00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:24,120
Speaker 1: you stop that?

515
00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:27,680
Speaker 4: Oh?

516
00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:31,520
Speaker 5: That's so interesting. I guess I don't have too too

517
00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:32,840
Speaker 5: much of that instinct.

518
00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:36,680
Speaker 4: I will say a disproportionate amount of people in my

519
00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:40,479
Speaker 4: life probably have OCD, and I have wondered if that

520
00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:44,080
Speaker 4: is just like like attracting like or like what that's about,

521
00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:48,480
Speaker 4: do you know? And so that that that can sometimes

522
00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:52,160
Speaker 4: be Probably maybe the thing that that that pops up

523
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:54,280
Speaker 4: the most for me is like if I'll see certain

524
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:58,120
Speaker 4: you know, and I think I'll see certain OCD tendencies,

525
00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:00,280
Speaker 4: or they'll they'll like end up sharing that with me

526
00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:04,360
Speaker 4: to sort of gauge my reaction on it. But I

527
00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:07,040
Speaker 4: think for the most part, I've I've gotten to a

528
00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:12,320
Speaker 4: place of I'm not so interested and necessarily like diagnosing someone.

529
00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:16,800
Speaker 4: I'm interested in understanding them. And so like if I

530
00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:19,680
Speaker 4: if I learn something about their family, It'll be like,

531
00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:22,600
Speaker 4: oh and that makes sense blank. Like if I learned

532
00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:25,720
Speaker 4: something about their job or their or how they view

533
00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:27,520
Speaker 4: the world, then I'll be like okay, Like it's sort

534
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:31,560
Speaker 4: of like I'm putting these puzzle pieces together rather than

535
00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:36,240
Speaker 4: like hunting for like a label or something like that.

536
00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:39,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've been I've been accused of bane little too

537
00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:40,400
Speaker 1: too intense with my.

538
00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:44,200
Speaker 2: Question perhaps how you've got on this show.

539
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:49,000
Speaker 3: Because you're at a cheese Nike together and all of

540
00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:52,320
Speaker 3: a sudden I'm spilling my heart out, Tom.

541
00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:55,360
Speaker 1: And then my next conversation is we need therapy. We

542
00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:56,840
Speaker 1: should do this all the mic.

543
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:15,240
Speaker 2: Anyway here, Definitely, this is something.

544
00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:17,800
Speaker 3: This is actually a conversation. We have a lot Smith

545
00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:21,360
Speaker 3: and I on this show. You are very open about

546
00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:23,920
Speaker 3: a lot of things that have happened in your life,

547
00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:31,840
Speaker 3: and we often we talk about where are our boundaries

548
00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:34,720
Speaker 3: and what is helpful and what is not helpful for us,

549
00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:38,440
Speaker 3: And that conversation can look different for everybody. But but

550
00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:43,760
Speaker 3: for you, do you have you found kind of your

551
00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:46,880
Speaker 3: like a balance in what you'll share and what you won't.

552
00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:49,600
Speaker 3: Is it something you find really liberating or is it

553
00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:51,680
Speaker 3: something you find frightening or all of the above.

554
00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:56,120
Speaker 4: My rule is really about what is mine and what

555
00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:59,920
Speaker 4: is someone else's. So I'd say that the biggest boundaries

556
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:03,880
Speaker 4: I have are with things that involve other people. So

557
00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:06,680
Speaker 4: I have to be really mindful about when I'm talking

558
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:09,440
Speaker 4: about something regarding my husband or my.

559
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:12,360
Speaker 5: Family or other beings.

560
00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:16,800
Speaker 4: So that's where like there's stuff where like you got like,

561
00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:20,280
Speaker 4: my audience just has no idea about certain areas of

562
00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:22,720
Speaker 4: my life. And it's not because I want to keep

563
00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:25,280
Speaker 4: it from them. It's because I have to honor the

564
00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:29,000
Speaker 4: privacy of people in my life and who I care about.

565
00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:32,080
Speaker 4: And then I'd say, the only other really big boundary

566
00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:35,920
Speaker 4: I have is around, like my sex life is something

567
00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:38,600
Speaker 4: I really don't like talking about. I had to write

568
00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:41,400
Speaker 4: about it and Overthinking about You because I was like,

569
00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:44,800
Speaker 4: this would just not be fair not to And so

570
00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:46,920
Speaker 4: at the time I just told my mom and dad,

571
00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:53,239
Speaker 4: I was like, just don't read chapter six. And you know, honestly, like,

572
00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:55,800
Speaker 4: now that my mom is dead and my dad doesn't

573
00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:58,960
Speaker 4: really listen to my stuff, I'm like, who knows what's coming?

574
00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:02,400
Speaker 2: Now?

575
00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:05,080
Speaker 5: That's been. That's been probably.

576
00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:08,000
Speaker 4: Like the biggest boundary that is that is mine that

577
00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:12,160
Speaker 4: I've sort of created because of my comfort level. But

578
00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:15,240
Speaker 4: if you read again, if you read chapter six of Overthinking.

579
00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:17,960
Speaker 5: About You, you will sort of learn quite quite a bit.

580
00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:26,640
Speaker 7: H you got that far, I can tell you were

581
00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:32,200
Speaker 7: you were very uncomfortable, but you you're fighting through it.

582
00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:33,960
Speaker 2: Very Yeah, it was great.

583
00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:36,080
Speaker 3: It was very because you were so open about it

584
00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:38,520
Speaker 3: and you were like, I am uncomfortable. I'm going to

585
00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:40,440
Speaker 3: tell you, but we're going to get through this.

586
00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:43,120
Speaker 5: And then I had to read the audio book.

587
00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:44,920
Speaker 2: I was like Oh my.

588
00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:47,720
Speaker 4: God, why did I put this print?

589
00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:51,040
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, we just had not like a couple of

590
00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:52,760
Speaker 1: years ago. We just had that experience of like, if

591
00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:55,720
Speaker 1: we had known this was the audio, we would have

592
00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:56,960
Speaker 1: not been in this way.

593
00:33:57,320 --> 00:33:58,680
Speaker 5: You have the audio engineer.

594
00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:02,480
Speaker 1: He was like you real quick.

595
00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:09,920
Speaker 3: Something else that you have written a lot about are

596
00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:17,480
Speaker 3: modern relationships and marriage, which makes sense. What are some

597
00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:21,320
Speaker 3: of the ways that you think modern relationships are different

598
00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:23,640
Speaker 3: just inherently kind of things are changing.

599
00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:29,640
Speaker 5: They're not societally required in the same way, which is

600
00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:31,920
Speaker 5: so exciting, right.

601
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:35,319
Speaker 4: I mean, boomers have like the highest divorce rate, and

602
00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:37,640
Speaker 4: I think it's because they had to get married, and

603
00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:39,480
Speaker 4: they had to do it young, and they had to

604
00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:42,600
Speaker 4: do it without you know, as much discernment as maybe

605
00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:45,000
Speaker 4: they wanted to have, because it was a certain time,

606
00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:49,040
Speaker 4: a certain place. Here's who I'm dating, let's get to go.

607
00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:52,240
Speaker 4: And I think, you know, as someone who is actually

608
00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:55,480
Speaker 4: really pro marriage, I think one of the best things

609
00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:59,120
Speaker 4: about modern marriage is less people are getting married. And

610
00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:02,920
Speaker 4: that's good good because marriage isn't for everyone, and it

611
00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:05,560
Speaker 4: doesn't make sense for everyone, and it is a very

612
00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:09,719
Speaker 4: specific choice that has to align with your values and

613
00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:12,640
Speaker 4: what you want for yourself. And I also think, you know,

614
00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:15,280
Speaker 4: as I explored a lot and I do. I think

615
00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:18,640
Speaker 4: the idea that now we get to create what marriage

616
00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:23,400
Speaker 4: is for us as a partnership between two individuals, rather

617
00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:28,680
Speaker 4: than trying to fit ourselves into the institution of marriage

618
00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:32,360
Speaker 4: and whatever that is like preconceived to be. Like my

619
00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:35,440
Speaker 4: marriage can look totally different than your marriage, and like

620
00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:37,160
Speaker 4: how wonderful is that?

621
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:39,440
Speaker 5: So rather than like a.

622
00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:42,719
Speaker 4: Complete rejection of the institution, I really encourage people to

623
00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:46,520
Speaker 4: have a reimagining of it and also decide if it's

624
00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:48,080
Speaker 4: something that even makes sense for them.

625
00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:51,160
Speaker 1: I love that I say this as a person also

626
00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:53,359
Speaker 1: in a very weird place of like, nah, I'm good,

627
00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:55,879
Speaker 1: no marriage from me. I've seen that. I'm good. We're

628
00:35:55,960 --> 00:36:00,319
Speaker 1: fine with the partnership here, but with marriages and a

629
00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:03,279
Speaker 1: lot of experiences, we're gonna let's let's talk about your

630
00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:08,640
Speaker 1: newest release. Uh, how was this experience of writing a

631
00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:12,920
Speaker 1: fictional rom com like rom com book that obviously you

632
00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:15,320
Speaker 1: said you were a fan of, especially because you involved

633
00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:18,319
Speaker 1: your own life like you did some real personal like

634
00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:21,960
Speaker 1: perspective into a rom com. Tell us about this experience.

635
00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:27,000
Speaker 4: So Save the Date was based on a joke my

636
00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:30,040
Speaker 4: father made and he's so proud of himself, which was

637
00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:35,520
Speaker 4: basically in twenty twenty, my fiance just like abruptly left

638
00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:38,640
Speaker 4: me with like little to no explanation, and it was

639
00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:42,319
Speaker 4: like peak pandemic. Like I had to fly home to

640
00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:44,960
Speaker 4: New York to grieve, but like I had to like

641
00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:48,040
Speaker 4: be in a mask and separated from my family for

642
00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:50,719
Speaker 4: the first week, and like the first few days afterwards,

643
00:36:50,719 --> 00:36:52,560
Speaker 4: like when I was still in LA Like my friends

644
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:54,920
Speaker 4: came to visit me, but like they couldn't hug me,

645
00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:55,319
Speaker 4: you know.

646
00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:56,960
Speaker 5: So I'm just like sobbing.

647
00:36:56,560 --> 00:36:58,759
Speaker 4: In a parking lot and they're just like reaching towards me.

648
00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:02,560
Speaker 4: But like it was just as dramatic as as it

649
00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:03,440
Speaker 4: could possibly be.

650
00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:05,880
Speaker 5: And so I get home and I'm like recovering.

651
00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:08,160
Speaker 4: I'm recuperating, and my dad is like, well, you know,

652
00:37:08,239 --> 00:37:10,040
Speaker 4: we still have a wedding planner, Like why don't you

653
00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:12,600
Speaker 4: just try to find a groom in time for your

654
00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:13,440
Speaker 4: original wedding?

655
00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:18,120
Speaker 5: And I was like, Dad, that is bonkers.

656
00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:25,440
Speaker 4: What a wonderful idea for a fictional story. So you know,

657
00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:28,040
Speaker 4: it wasn't something I dived into right away, like I,

658
00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:31,880
Speaker 4: you know, obviously needed space to heal. I needed space

659
00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:37,239
Speaker 4: to fall in love again and sort of like emerge

660
00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:39,359
Speaker 4: from that chapter in my life in order to kind

661
00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:40,239
Speaker 4: of go back.

662
00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:41,319
Speaker 5: And fictionalize it.

663
00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:44,560
Speaker 4: But it was really fun to sort of like I

664
00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:47,000
Speaker 4: kind of describe it as sort of like a multiverse

665
00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:50,560
Speaker 4: version of my broken engagement, like if I had taken

666
00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:54,120
Speaker 4: a different route, because so much of what happened during

667
00:37:54,120 --> 00:37:57,920
Speaker 4: that time was that I had been writing over Thinking

668
00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:01,920
Speaker 4: About You during period of my life, and so I

669
00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:07,399
Speaker 4: actively had to sit down and delete my fiance from

670
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:09,879
Speaker 4: my book, like I had to like go through and

671
00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:13,000
Speaker 4: like edit him out and it, and like the entire

672
00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:18,040
Speaker 4: final chapter of Overthinking About You was a chapter about

673
00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:21,520
Speaker 4: my relationship with him and how we were building.

674
00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:25,719
Speaker 5: This beautiful life for ourselves. I to just I have

675
00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:29,120
Speaker 5: to just cut the whole thing out, and I had to.

676
00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:30,920
Speaker 4: I had to come up with a new like a

677
00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:34,640
Speaker 4: new ending. And the ending went from you know, how.

678
00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:36,960
Speaker 5: Do you know, how do you build a life together?

679
00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:38,560
Speaker 5: To like how do you not give up?

680
00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:43,040
Speaker 4: Like how do you keep going even after your very

681
00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:47,440
Speaker 4: worst fear came true? Which to me was like just

682
00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:51,239
Speaker 4: like being rejected by this person I'd finally felt that

683
00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:54,399
Speaker 4: level of safety with And how do I not have

684
00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:57,920
Speaker 4: this massive backslide in my sense of self and my

685
00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:00,000
Speaker 4: mental health and all of these things. I ended up

686
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:02,440
Speaker 4: like applying all of the lessons I'd learned in my

687
00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:06,279
Speaker 4: research to myself. And so then I really wanted the

688
00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:11,840
Speaker 4: novel to to incorporate that story as well, to not

689
00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:17,279
Speaker 4: just be like, you know, it's Zany obviously, like she's

690
00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:20,120
Speaker 4: obviously behaving badly in a lot of ways by kind

691
00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:24,000
Speaker 4: of keeping to this plan, but but you know, to

692
00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:27,400
Speaker 4: to have it be more than just saving her personal face,

693
00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:29,840
Speaker 4: but her sort of trying, you know. In the book,

694
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:33,960
Speaker 4: Emma is a is a couple therapists sort of turned YouTuber,

695
00:39:34,120 --> 00:39:37,719
Speaker 4: So she she has this like online following and there's

696
00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:40,840
Speaker 4: this like public element to what she's doing, and so

697
00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:43,440
Speaker 4: for her it really becomes more about sort of like

698
00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:48,239
Speaker 4: making this point about love and about and about commitment

699
00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:50,920
Speaker 4: and compatibility and how you know, I think in the

700
00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:53,400
Speaker 4: Western culture, we have this idea that things have to

701
00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:58,480
Speaker 4: follow this very specific timeline and path before it's acceptable

702
00:39:58,520 --> 00:40:00,960
Speaker 4: to get married. Where you know, another cultures, it's like

703
00:40:01,239 --> 00:40:03,600
Speaker 4: you don't have that same expectation of having known each

704
00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:06,040
Speaker 4: other for as long. And so she was sort of

705
00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:09,400
Speaker 4: pushing back against some of these cultural norms and ideas,

706
00:40:09,480 --> 00:40:11,800
Speaker 4: and it allowed me to sort of explore that stuff

707
00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:15,279
Speaker 4: within this really fun structure and genre of a of

708
00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:18,360
Speaker 4: a traditional rom com. So it really got to scratch

709
00:40:18,440 --> 00:40:21,040
Speaker 4: both my itch as like a as a as a

710
00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:24,600
Speaker 4: fiction writer, a screenwriter, and then also as as you know,

711
00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:27,640
Speaker 4: a mental health advocate and relationship expert.

712
00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:42,080
Speaker 3: Yes, I love that. Well, you've mentioned you you're a

713
00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:43,960
Speaker 3: big fan of a genre rom comms.

714
00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:47,000
Speaker 2: We over here love tropes.

715
00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:50,040
Speaker 3: Why do you think some of these romance these rom

716
00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:52,719
Speaker 3: com tropes, why are they so enduring? And what do

717
00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:55,080
Speaker 3: you think are some of the most harmful ones?

718
00:40:56,800 --> 00:40:57,960
Speaker 5: Ooh interesting.

719
00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:02,719
Speaker 4: I think every story has been told before, like you know,

720
00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:05,440
Speaker 4: I think that there's this idea that like you know,

721
00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:07,840
Speaker 4: that's similar to that?

722
00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:08,560
Speaker 5: How dare you?

723
00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:11,040
Speaker 4: And it's like everything is similar to everything. The difference

724
00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:13,720
Speaker 4: is the details and there can and there's a reason

725
00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:17,479
Speaker 4: that certain tropes and stories and plot points work because

726
00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:21,880
Speaker 4: they're satisfying to us, like that it is satisfying for

727
00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:24,960
Speaker 4: there to for the end of Act two to be,

728
00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:27,360
Speaker 4: you know, the dark day of the soul and like

729
00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:29,080
Speaker 4: the dark night of the soul, and then for like

730
00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:31,279
Speaker 4: things to turn around and act three. Like that's like

731
00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:33,800
Speaker 4: we like knowing where the story is going.

732
00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:34,480
Speaker 1: You know.

733
00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:37,680
Speaker 4: Obviously some things are more avant garde or break the rules,

734
00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:41,240
Speaker 4: and that's cool too, but they're like knowing like enemies

735
00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:43,640
Speaker 4: to lovers, like where I'm here.

736
00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:45,440
Speaker 5: For, I know I'm going to get a happy ending.

737
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:47,719
Speaker 4: And I think that that's the best trope of a

738
00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:51,000
Speaker 4: romance book is it is not a romance book. If

739
00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:54,479
Speaker 4: these people do not end up together, it is something else.

740
00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:56,920
Speaker 4: It can be something great, but it's not a romance.

741
00:41:57,320 --> 00:42:00,160
Speaker 4: And so as someone who is like very old over

742
00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:03,280
Speaker 4: all of the devastation and sadness that is the world

743
00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:08,719
Speaker 4: and wants to go to narrative to escape that, to

744
00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:11,759
Speaker 4: not just be hit over the head with like sadness

745
00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:14,799
Speaker 4: and desperation all the time, I think like knowing that,

746
00:42:15,080 --> 00:42:17,200
Speaker 4: like that's what you're getting in for with the romance

747
00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:22,320
Speaker 4: book is so great. I think maybe you know, harmful

748
00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:27,239
Speaker 4: tropes are like I think you know where like the

749
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:31,680
Speaker 4: relationship dynamic is not actually healthy, right, So like any

750
00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:36,400
Speaker 4: sort of thing where someone is a captive or you know,

751
00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:40,879
Speaker 4: take an advantage of or you know, anything that glorifies

752
00:42:40,920 --> 00:42:43,799
Speaker 4: abuse in any way don't love that, you know. But

753
00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:45,920
Speaker 4: I think for the majority of what's going on in

754
00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:50,960
Speaker 4: this genre, it's more it's more just like wish fulfillment

755
00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:57,400
Speaker 4: really letting you explore really complex elements of human life

756
00:42:57,760 --> 00:43:01,839
Speaker 4: without it feeling like you're logging through something that is

757
00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:06,080
Speaker 4: just like purely dramatic or traumatic or sad. I mean,

758
00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:08,040
Speaker 4: that's kind of where I really am excited to be

759
00:43:08,120 --> 00:43:11,720
Speaker 4: in this genre is because I can like explore mental

760
00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:15,480
Speaker 4: health in this way. I don't have to like get

761
00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:18,600
Speaker 4: someone to buy into a book about about being unlovable

762
00:43:18,600 --> 00:43:21,280
Speaker 4: and anxiety. I get someone to buy into the idea

763
00:43:21,320 --> 00:43:23,200
Speaker 4: of like a fun rom com where a girl tries

764
00:43:23,239 --> 00:43:25,759
Speaker 4: to find a groom in time for original wedding date.

765
00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:29,640
Speaker 4: That I get to add that stuff, you know. And

766
00:43:29,719 --> 00:43:33,399
Speaker 4: my next one is all about OCD and grief and

767
00:43:33,560 --> 00:43:36,200
Speaker 4: like these you know, these subjects that are not inherently

768
00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:38,680
Speaker 4: what you would think about with the romance, but like

769
00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:41,920
Speaker 4: is what you're allowed to explore in that genre so

770
00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:45,960
Speaker 4: long as you're hitting the satisfying beats of two people

771
00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:46,719
Speaker 4: falling in love.

772
00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:55,680
Speaker 3: Yes, that's so fantastic. Well, speaking of you've also written

773
00:43:55,719 --> 00:43:59,480
Speaker 3: a lot about breakups. Obviously, that's a big part of dating,

774
00:43:59,560 --> 00:44:04,040
Speaker 3: and as you mentioned this book, you do you bring

775
00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:09,239
Speaker 3: in elements of that, and you've written about how you know,

776
00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:13,239
Speaker 3: after that happened, you were worried people would be like, oh,

777
00:44:14,200 --> 00:44:15,680
Speaker 3: why should I go to her? Like you were saying

778
00:44:15,680 --> 00:44:19,479
Speaker 3: about the therapy or all of that. But you've also

779
00:44:19,480 --> 00:44:22,800
Speaker 3: written about the kind of the intersection of mental health

780
00:44:23,080 --> 00:44:26,799
Speaker 3: and the breakup. Can you talk about that a little bit?

781
00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:31,960
Speaker 4: So I think breakups are really devastating, even if you're

782
00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:36,680
Speaker 4: at your most mentally stable, but you know, if you

783
00:44:36,719 --> 00:44:40,480
Speaker 4: are someone that has real ups and downs in their

784
00:44:40,520 --> 00:44:43,920
Speaker 4: mental health, it can be very pretty destabilizing. And so

785
00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:48,399
Speaker 4: I think that it's important to honor and understand how

786
00:44:48,440 --> 00:44:51,200
Speaker 4: deeply painful a breakup is and to put in some

787
00:44:51,400 --> 00:44:55,440
Speaker 4: added support to yourself to get yourself through that situation.

788
00:44:56,160 --> 00:45:00,520
Speaker 4: And I also think it's important to not engage certain

789
00:45:01,360 --> 00:45:05,120
Speaker 4: harmful thought patterns around it. So one of the most

790
00:45:05,160 --> 00:45:07,880
Speaker 4: harmful thought patterns I find is the what if thoughts

791
00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:11,080
Speaker 4: of like what if I had done this differently, what

792
00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:11,920
Speaker 4: if we had.

793
00:45:11,840 --> 00:45:14,279
Speaker 5: Met earlier, what if? What if? What if?

794
00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:18,880
Speaker 4: And it's trying to solve a problem that that already happened,

795
00:45:19,680 --> 00:45:22,799
Speaker 4: right it's like and it's trying to solve something that

796
00:45:22,840 --> 00:45:25,200
Speaker 4: you would never know the answer to, Like I will

797
00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:28,919
Speaker 4: never know if my fiance would have stayed if there

798
00:45:28,920 --> 00:45:34,000
Speaker 4: hadn't been a pandemic, Like I suspect probably, but I

799
00:45:34,040 --> 00:45:37,440
Speaker 4: don't know, And so my hunt to know is is

800
00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:42,719
Speaker 4: a useless quest that can really stir up rumination and

801
00:45:42,760 --> 00:45:46,000
Speaker 4: can really get us trapped in the past and make

802
00:45:46,040 --> 00:45:48,960
Speaker 4: it hard for us to move forward. So I really

803
00:45:49,080 --> 00:45:54,319
Speaker 4: like instead to encourage people to take a radical acceptance

804
00:45:54,360 --> 00:45:56,680
Speaker 4: point of view when it comes to a breakup, where

805
00:45:56,719 --> 00:45:58,640
Speaker 4: it is like, obviously, this is not what I wanted

806
00:45:58,680 --> 00:46:01,440
Speaker 4: to happen, but this is what happened, and since it

807
00:46:01,520 --> 00:46:02,960
Speaker 4: is what happened, what do.

808
00:46:02,840 --> 00:46:03,520
Speaker 5: I do now?

809
00:46:04,400 --> 00:46:08,640
Speaker 4: Rather than focusing on the past or feeling like it

810
00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:11,799
Speaker 4: means some great thing about your future, right, we tend

811
00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:15,520
Speaker 4: to catastrophize this person left, that means everyone will leave me.

812
00:46:15,920 --> 00:46:19,560
Speaker 4: I'm heartbroken now, I will be heartbroken forever. Like really

813
00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:23,160
Speaker 4: trying to look at what is true, what is logical,

814
00:46:23,480 --> 00:46:26,680
Speaker 4: and where can we go from here rather than overly

815
00:46:26,880 --> 00:46:30,000
Speaker 4: predicting the future or staying in the past.

816
00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:34,800
Speaker 3: Yes, and Samantha and I love a good activity or

817
00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:37,719
Speaker 3: a good thought experiment, and you have a lot of

818
00:46:37,719 --> 00:46:40,160
Speaker 3: those in your books about reframing those sort of thoughts

819
00:46:40,200 --> 00:46:43,960
Speaker 3: and identifying the helpful ones and not helpful ones. I

820
00:46:44,200 --> 00:46:46,719
Speaker 3: wanted to ask you this and it could be your

821
00:46:46,760 --> 00:46:47,520
Speaker 3: answer to just no.

822
00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:55,120
Speaker 6: But I as a podcast that is in the intersectional

823
00:46:55,160 --> 00:47:01,840
Speaker 6: feminist space, sometimes it gives me pause that that relationship

824
00:47:01,920 --> 00:47:06,000
Speaker 6: podcasts are often gendered as feminine for women.

825
00:47:07,080 --> 00:47:10,000
Speaker 3: Has that been your experience, Like we know rom coms are,

826
00:47:10,400 --> 00:47:15,440
Speaker 3: but like relationship podcasts are. So I was just curious

827
00:47:15,440 --> 00:47:17,960
Speaker 3: to getting thoughts about that or maybe you haven't seen that.

828
00:47:18,040 --> 00:47:21,799
Speaker 4: It's just me, you know, I think that they're you know,

829
00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:25,360
Speaker 4: writing especially my most recent nonfiction about I Do I

830
00:47:25,400 --> 00:47:31,200
Speaker 4: think about modern marriage. The book is very non gendered

831
00:47:31,400 --> 00:47:36,160
Speaker 4: and it is very inclusive at least really that was

832
00:47:36,200 --> 00:47:39,120
Speaker 4: a priority for me. But it was also important to

833
00:47:39,200 --> 00:47:46,200
Speaker 4: acknowledge that historically women have been more victims of harmful marriages,

834
00:47:46,680 --> 00:47:51,920
Speaker 4: that the patriarchal nature of marriage has often harmed women

835
00:47:52,680 --> 00:47:57,680
Speaker 4: to a high degree, And so it feels impossible to

836
00:47:58,320 --> 00:48:05,440
Speaker 4: also completely approach relationships as existing outside of the gender binary.

837
00:48:05,560 --> 00:48:08,319
Speaker 4: Because I think that the reality is the way that

838
00:48:08,360 --> 00:48:11,720
Speaker 4: our lives and society have been structured, is that women

839
00:48:11,880 --> 00:48:18,360
Speaker 4: often do bear the brunt of some unfairness and inequality,

840
00:48:18,440 --> 00:48:23,440
Speaker 4: and so I understand perhaps why women are drawn to

841
00:48:24,120 --> 00:48:27,880
Speaker 4: these conversations because it is hard to know how to

842
00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:32,880
Speaker 4: build an equitable relationship and how to build a safer relationship.

843
00:48:33,239 --> 00:48:36,040
Speaker 4: And so my goal is that, like we as we

844
00:48:36,120 --> 00:48:38,880
Speaker 4: build more and more of those and as people have

845
00:48:39,000 --> 00:48:42,040
Speaker 4: better models of relationships, that it won't be seen as

846
00:48:42,040 --> 00:48:45,480
Speaker 4: something that is such a gender topic. But I think

847
00:48:45,520 --> 00:48:48,560
Speaker 4: that there's still a lot of work to be done there.

848
00:48:48,840 --> 00:48:51,160
Speaker 4: But I love when I hear I gave my partner

849
00:48:51,280 --> 00:48:55,000
Speaker 4: your book, or my partner introduced me to this, and

850
00:48:55,360 --> 00:49:00,440
Speaker 4: you know, I think that you know, women and and

851
00:49:01,120 --> 00:49:04,360
Speaker 4: queer people just tend to be more cued into this stuff,

852
00:49:04,440 --> 00:49:08,600
Speaker 4: which is part of the bigger problem, right, But like

853
00:49:08,680 --> 00:49:11,359
Speaker 4: what an honor to get to to have such such

854
00:49:11,400 --> 00:49:13,400
Speaker 4: a such a wonderful audience.

855
00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:15,239
Speaker 5: And you know.

856
00:49:15,760 --> 00:49:18,879
Speaker 4: The goal is is for this just to spread even more,

857
00:49:18,960 --> 00:49:23,400
Speaker 4: especially as we're dealing with such a such an issue

858
00:49:23,400 --> 00:49:24,960
Speaker 4: with masculinity in this culture.

859
00:49:26,760 --> 00:49:29,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's an interesting conversation in general, because

860
00:49:29,480 --> 00:49:32,759
Speaker 1: when you think about what's happening when you hear complaints

861
00:49:32,800 --> 00:49:36,080
Speaker 1: in a marriage. Oftentimes women see it first and try

862
00:49:36,120 --> 00:49:38,360
Speaker 1: to fix it on their own and by the time

863
00:49:38,760 --> 00:49:41,680
Speaker 1: the husbands and this is obviously very heteronormative, but like

864
00:49:41,840 --> 00:49:44,439
Speaker 1: by the time the husbands are like being told there's

865
00:49:44,480 --> 00:49:47,400
Speaker 1: a problem that is towards the end of like this

866
00:49:47,520 --> 00:49:50,320
Speaker 1: is unfixable, oftentimes.

867
00:49:49,680 --> 00:49:51,880
Speaker 5: Not well, maybe by the time they listen.

868
00:49:52,400 --> 00:49:54,759
Speaker 1: Yes, and that's like all of those things are such.

869
00:49:55,480 --> 00:49:58,080
Speaker 4: I think often they're told and they're not taking it

870
00:49:58,120 --> 00:49:59,320
Speaker 4: seriously correct.

871
00:49:59,520 --> 00:50:01,200
Speaker 1: I think what of that due is that that level

872
00:50:01,200 --> 00:50:03,960
Speaker 1: of like when it comes to keeping a family, they

873
00:50:04,040 --> 00:50:07,560
Speaker 1: really put it on women's shoulders to being like you're

874
00:50:07,800 --> 00:50:10,720
Speaker 1: you're the reason to either stays together or falls apart,

875
00:50:10,960 --> 00:50:13,520
Speaker 1: which is such a that's a whole different topic.

876
00:50:13,640 --> 00:50:15,520
Speaker 5: So we'll have to have you on episodes.

877
00:50:16,200 --> 00:50:17,960
Speaker 1: I'll have to have you back on that for that.

878
00:50:19,360 --> 00:50:21,719
Speaker 1: But with all of that, I know you've talked to

879
00:50:21,960 --> 00:50:24,160
Speaker 1: a lot of people, and obviously a lot of people

880
00:50:24,200 --> 00:50:27,879
Speaker 1: talk to you about relationships and all the ways they

881
00:50:27,880 --> 00:50:31,320
Speaker 1: can look, especially as like we're talking about modern relationships

882
00:50:31,360 --> 00:50:34,280
Speaker 1: and how it's changing. Is there something you have heard

883
00:50:34,400 --> 00:50:37,719
Speaker 1: or learned from someone else that has changed your perspective

884
00:50:37,840 --> 00:50:38,640
Speaker 1: and has stuck with you.

885
00:50:40,320 --> 00:50:43,759
Speaker 4: This was years ago, but I worked with this woman

886
00:50:43,800 --> 00:50:46,280
Speaker 4: who's absolutely amazing, and she was going through a divorce

887
00:50:46,320 --> 00:50:48,960
Speaker 4: at the time, and she was she like, I wasn't

888
00:50:49,040 --> 00:50:51,120
Speaker 4: quite ready to hear it when she said it, but

889
00:50:51,239 --> 00:50:52,960
Speaker 4: she was like, he was such a you know, the

890
00:50:53,040 --> 00:50:55,279
Speaker 4: divorce was very painful. There was cheating, it was it

891
00:50:55,360 --> 00:50:56,800
Speaker 4: was like not good. But she was like, he was

892
00:50:56,840 --> 00:50:59,920
Speaker 4: a great person to raise my kids with. And I

893
00:51:00,160 --> 00:51:03,560
Speaker 4: think that that really changed my opinion about, like slowly

894
00:51:03,760 --> 00:51:07,759
Speaker 4: about about marriage and relationships that like, they don't have

895
00:51:07,800 --> 00:51:10,480
Speaker 4: to last forever for them to have still been the

896
00:51:10,520 --> 00:51:13,680
Speaker 4: right decision at the time, and that just because something

897
00:51:13,800 --> 00:51:18,800
Speaker 4: ultimately ends or shifts dramatically, like your marriage could have

898
00:51:18,800 --> 00:51:22,680
Speaker 4: been absolutely wonderful and important and absolutely the right person

899
00:51:22,719 --> 00:51:24,680
Speaker 4: for you for the amount of time that they were

900
00:51:24,719 --> 00:51:28,480
Speaker 4: the right person for you, rather than it being completely

901
00:51:28,520 --> 00:51:30,000
Speaker 4: negated just because it ended.

902
00:51:31,239 --> 00:51:36,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you're and your your books, you interview professionals

903
00:51:36,400 --> 00:51:38,160
Speaker 3: and some of the some of the things I was reading,

904
00:51:38,200 --> 00:51:39,719
Speaker 3: I was like, oh, I'm gonna have to think about that.

905
00:51:39,760 --> 00:51:42,600
Speaker 3: I've never thought about it in that way before, which

906
00:51:42,640 --> 00:51:45,800
Speaker 3: is great. And that brings me to what I was

907
00:51:45,800 --> 00:51:49,640
Speaker 3: talking about. For introspection. You're really you talk a lot

908
00:51:49,680 --> 00:51:53,239
Speaker 3: about you know, think about, think about these things, ask

909
00:51:53,280 --> 00:51:56,480
Speaker 3: these questions of yourself. Am I Am I in the

910
00:51:56,880 --> 00:52:00,480
Speaker 3: good place to break up just asking those questions? Why

911
00:52:00,520 --> 00:52:02,600
Speaker 3: do you think that it's so important?

912
00:52:03,680 --> 00:52:08,080
Speaker 4: I think that we often take our cues from societal

913
00:52:08,160 --> 00:52:11,960
Speaker 4: norms or what has worked for people around us, when

914
00:52:12,040 --> 00:52:15,040
Speaker 4: really we have to be cued into what works for

915
00:52:15,200 --> 00:52:18,959
Speaker 4: us in our present context. So if we don't really

916
00:52:18,960 --> 00:52:22,000
Speaker 4: know what's going on with us, or what our capacities

917
00:52:22,080 --> 00:52:24,920
Speaker 4: are or our feelings are in that moment, then we

918
00:52:24,960 --> 00:52:29,640
Speaker 4: can sort of make decisions that are under the wrong

919
00:52:29,800 --> 00:52:33,640
Speaker 4: influence rather than being more aligned with our current self

920
00:52:33,719 --> 00:52:35,680
Speaker 4: and our overall values.

921
00:52:37,360 --> 00:52:41,960
Speaker 3: Yes, well, clearly you're just going to have to come

922
00:52:42,000 --> 00:52:46,680
Speaker 3: back because we have so many questions, so many other

923
00:52:46,719 --> 00:52:52,040
Speaker 3: topic ideas. But for now, where can the good listeners

924
00:52:52,160 --> 00:52:54,680
Speaker 3: find you? What projects do you have that you want

925
00:52:54,719 --> 00:52:55,920
Speaker 3: to shout out all of that?

926
00:52:56,719 --> 00:52:58,800
Speaker 5: Well, I would love for people to order my books

927
00:52:58,840 --> 00:52:59,640
Speaker 5: Save the Date.

928
00:53:00,360 --> 00:53:04,520
Speaker 4: It's definitely a romcom heavy on the com if that's

929
00:53:04,800 --> 00:53:08,080
Speaker 4: your kind of thing, hopefully, And then you can also

930
00:53:08,160 --> 00:53:11,160
Speaker 4: check out my substack Emotional Support Lady, where I have

931
00:53:11,600 --> 00:53:15,760
Speaker 4: a weekly post every Tuesday. That's just anything and everything

932
00:53:15,800 --> 00:53:19,080
Speaker 4: mental health related. So it's like a really lovely community

933
00:53:19,120 --> 00:53:23,280
Speaker 4: over there. I have a weekly podcast called Just between Us,

934
00:53:23,400 --> 00:53:26,040
Speaker 4: and if you're interested in my work as a relationship coach,

935
00:53:26,160 --> 00:53:28,879
Speaker 4: you can visit alisanaskin dot com and all the other

936
00:53:28,880 --> 00:53:29,560
Speaker 4: stuff there too.

937
00:53:29,880 --> 00:53:32,520
Speaker 3: Awesome. Well, thank you, thank you, thank you so much

938
00:53:32,560 --> 00:53:33,279
Speaker 3: for joining us.

939
00:53:33,440 --> 00:53:34,520
Speaker 5: Oh this was wonderful.

940
00:53:34,600 --> 00:53:38,640
Speaker 3: Thank you, And you can also contact us if you

941
00:53:38,680 --> 00:53:43,640
Speaker 3: would like. You can email us at Hello at Stuffmannever

942
00:53:43,680 --> 00:53:45,960
Speaker 3: Told You dot com. You can find us on blue

943
00:53:46,000 --> 00:53:50,520
Speaker 3: Sky at momstaff podcast, or on Instagram and TikTok at

944
00:53:50,560 --> 00:53:53,160
Speaker 3: Stuffman Ever Told You. We're also on YouTube. We have

945
00:53:53,200 --> 00:53:55,040
Speaker 3: a tea public store, and we have a book you

946
00:53:55,040 --> 00:53:57,839
Speaker 3: can get wherever you get your books. Thanks as always too,

947
00:53:58,160 --> 00:54:01,800
Speaker 3: our super producer Christina are executed for and our Contrbutter Joey.

948
00:54:01,920 --> 00:54:04,640
Speaker 3: Thank you and thanks to you for listening stuff One

949
00:54:04,640 --> 00:54:06,800
Speaker 3: Never Told You's ppdiction of iHeart Radio. For more podcasts

950
00:54:06,800 --> 00:54:08,919
Speaker 3: from my Heart Radio, you can check out your iHeartRadio app,

951
00:54:08,960 --> 00:54:11,360
Speaker 3: Apple Podcasts or reb you listen to your favorite shows.