1
00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:02,240
Speaker 1: What's going on with the dollar as a unit of

2
00:00:02,240 --> 00:00:05,600
Speaker 1: account and how long will the dollar be a viable

3
00:00:05,720 --> 00:00:09,080
Speaker 1: option for us to use in a world of ever

4
00:00:09,160 --> 00:00:12,680
Speaker 1: increasing debt and volatile change. I'm sitting down today with

5
00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:16,360
Speaker 1: Parker Lewis, the author of many great things, including a

6
00:00:16,360 --> 00:00:19,440
Speaker 1: piece that went super viral called Gradually Then Suddenly and

7
00:00:19,480 --> 00:00:22,000
Speaker 1: now it's in a new book that I'm super excited

8
00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:25,440
Speaker 1: to read, can't ready to read it. Parker Lewis has

9
00:00:25,440 --> 00:00:27,840
Speaker 1: been in the bitcoin community for a long time, great

10
00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:30,760
Speaker 1: thought leader, now the founder of zap Wright, which is

11
00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:35,040
Speaker 1: helping businesses scale into bitcoin payments. We'll talk about that, Parker.

12
00:00:35,080 --> 00:00:36,040
Speaker 1: Thanks for joining me today.

13
00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:37,280
Speaker 2: Mark, great to be out here.

14
00:00:38,159 --> 00:00:40,519
Speaker 1: So we are jumping right into the middle of a

15
00:00:40,520 --> 00:00:44,400
Speaker 1: conversation and we're talking about debt. We're talking about inflation,

16
00:00:44,479 --> 00:00:47,400
Speaker 1: we're talking about real estate and leveraging debt for assets

17
00:00:48,320 --> 00:00:50,559
Speaker 1: and how all that fits in with bitcoin, and I

18
00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:53,159
Speaker 1: think there's a synergy if we learn how to use

19
00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:56,040
Speaker 1: them properly. Let's just jump right back into where we were.

20
00:00:56,280 --> 00:00:59,680
Speaker 1: So a lot of that assumes that we have a

21
00:00:59,720 --> 00:01:04,039
Speaker 1: functioning debt market and a dollar, which I would agree,

22
00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:06,240
Speaker 1: of course, there's no debat in that fact, I don't

23
00:01:06,280 --> 00:01:08,600
Speaker 1: think I don't think you debate that. The debate would

24
00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:12,000
Speaker 1: be how long does that take? So it gradually then

25
00:01:12,040 --> 00:01:15,720
Speaker 1: suddenly when does the suddenly part come? So I'd love

26
00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:16,560
Speaker 1: to hear your take on that.

27
00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:21,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, So my perspective is that, or maybe I'll jump

28
00:01:21,720 --> 00:01:25,120
Speaker 2: to the conclusion I personally don't see the dollar remaining

29
00:01:25,240 --> 00:01:30,640
Speaker 2: viable as its current system or a current construct for

30
00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:31,479
Speaker 2: another ten years.

31
00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:32,000
Speaker 1: Okay.

32
00:01:33,280 --> 00:01:36,199
Speaker 2: I feel like a decade is a lot of rope.

33
00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:39,000
Speaker 2: And the way that I think about that is that

34
00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:42,600
Speaker 2: the second that bitcoin becomes larger than the dollar system

35
00:01:43,319 --> 00:01:48,160
Speaker 2: is when the dollar systems accelerated decline, the suddenly part

36
00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:53,680
Speaker 2: of everyone being scrambling through that single door as an exit.

37
00:01:54,320 --> 00:01:57,000
Speaker 2: If you think about ten years time, Bitcoin's been around

38
00:01:57,040 --> 00:02:03,160
Speaker 2: for fifteen years. It's worth our virtualllion dollars, and very

39
00:02:03,160 --> 00:02:07,240
Speaker 2: few people still understand it. We go through three more

40
00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:10,480
Speaker 2: having events, the one that is about to happen in

41
00:02:10,639 --> 00:02:17,160
Speaker 2: less than a month, and two more epics, having one,

42
00:02:17,320 --> 00:02:20,359
Speaker 2: two and three. How much knowledge distributes in a five

43
00:02:20,360 --> 00:02:24,120
Speaker 2: twelve years, twelve years? Well, well I'm saying there's a

44
00:02:24,160 --> 00:02:25,560
Speaker 2: having in a month.

45
00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:28,120
Speaker 1: Oh so this one okay, So you know.

46
00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:31,840
Speaker 2: Eight more years for three havings, got it right? So uh,

47
00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:34,720
Speaker 2: and then the amount of knowledge distributes that happens over

48
00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:38,520
Speaker 2: that period of time. As Bitcoin as a monetary supply hardens,

49
00:02:38,520 --> 00:02:41,800
Speaker 2: it hardens. Well, if we're right now at a trillion

50
00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:45,320
Speaker 2: dollars for bitcoin to ten x. If if you were

51
00:02:45,360 --> 00:02:48,040
Speaker 2: to think that we'll ten x more people figure out

52
00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:52,239
Speaker 2: bitcoin between now and then, then based on the monetary

53
00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:56,720
Speaker 2: supply that exists today, bitcoin is already larger than the dollar.

54
00:02:58,200 --> 00:03:00,799
Speaker 2: If you were to think that one hundred x.

55
00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:02,760
Speaker 1: When you say bigger than the dollar, what do you mean,

56
00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:04,920
Speaker 1: like eighty trillion dollars of currency in the US.

57
00:03:04,760 --> 00:03:07,440
Speaker 2: We're talking about like right now, there's there's between eight

58
00:03:07,440 --> 00:03:10,239
Speaker 2: and nine trillion and actual dollars that exist in the system.

59
00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:14,200
Speaker 2: There's broad money, which are are you know, credit instruments

60
00:03:14,200 --> 00:03:14,760
Speaker 2: to posits.

61
00:03:14,880 --> 00:03:15,880
Speaker 1: That's the eighty trillion.

62
00:03:16,880 --> 00:03:19,720
Speaker 2: That's eighty trillion in the world I'm talking about.

63
00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:22,000
Speaker 1: So eighty trillion US dollars around the world.

64
00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:23,840
Speaker 2: No eight, there's.

65
00:03:23,639 --> 00:03:24,880
Speaker 1: Eight eight trillion dollars.

66
00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:29,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, there's eighty trillion of what eighty trillion is

67
00:03:29,320 --> 00:03:32,440
Speaker 2: a decent estimate for all of the base money. I

68
00:03:32,440 --> 00:03:34,240
Speaker 2: think all the broad money in the world. So I'm

69
00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:37,480
Speaker 2: talking about based money, and just the USKY. US is

70
00:03:37,520 --> 00:03:43,280
Speaker 2: the global reserve currency. It has about eight eight trillion

71
00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:46,480
Speaker 2: of the actual dollars the left side of the bank's

72
00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:51,160
Speaker 2: balance sheets paper dollars, paper dollars, and digital reserves at

73
00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:53,440
Speaker 2: the Federal Reserve. Now, when you start to add in

74
00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:58,120
Speaker 2: things like checking deposits that individuals, which are forms of credit,

75
00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:03,160
Speaker 2: that gets between twenty and twenty five trillion for just

76
00:04:03,240 --> 00:04:05,720
Speaker 2: the US. The eighty trillion number that you have in

77
00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:09,280
Speaker 2: your head is that twenty to twenty five trillion broad

78
00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:12,240
Speaker 2: money in the US, but for the globe, the entire curposes.

79
00:04:12,680 --> 00:04:16,680
Speaker 2: My point is that bitcoin is base money, Okay, so

80
00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:19,760
Speaker 2: the right way to compare it to a system is

81
00:04:19,880 --> 00:04:22,559
Speaker 2: base money to base money. If a credit system starts

82
00:04:22,560 --> 00:04:25,880
Speaker 2: to build on top of bitcoin, then that starts to

83
00:04:25,880 --> 00:04:29,360
Speaker 2: become more comparable to the twenty to twenty five trillion

84
00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:32,120
Speaker 2: in the US. But if we're just thinking about base money,

85
00:04:32,279 --> 00:04:35,240
Speaker 2: if in the next ten years, if ten x the

86
00:04:35,320 --> 00:04:39,240
Speaker 2: number of people demand a bitcoin, but realistically, if we're

87
00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:43,200
Speaker 2: talking about ten years, if we follow traditional looking at

88
00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:45,880
Speaker 2: past metrics, that ten x to the number of people

89
00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:51,080
Speaker 2: typically figure it out each cycle. Then let's say one

90
00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:53,600
Speaker 2: hundred x. Well, if it's one hundred x, then bitcoin's

91
00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:57,760
Speaker 2: one hundred trillion. Bitcoin is starting to dwarf the dollar

92
00:04:57,880 --> 00:05:01,279
Speaker 2: system as a whole because it's global, and if you

93
00:05:01,320 --> 00:05:03,640
Speaker 2: start to think about it in that context, in my view,

94
00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:07,240
Speaker 2: when bitcoin starts to become the largest currency in the world,

95
00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:11,600
Speaker 2: it becomes more obvious to everybody that that's the way

96
00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:15,080
Speaker 2: the world goes. And my personal view, which we can

97
00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:19,560
Speaker 2: talk about, is that global bitcoin adoption can't happen. It's

98
00:05:19,680 --> 00:05:21,960
Speaker 2: like the other side of the same coin is the

99
00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:25,520
Speaker 2: euro hyperinflating, the end hyper inflating, and the dollar hyper inflating.

100
00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:28,159
Speaker 2: That you have this choice between one or the other.

101
00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:32,240
Speaker 2: As it becomes painfully obvious, you're either storing wealth and bitcoin,

102
00:05:32,320 --> 00:05:34,400
Speaker 2: you're storing wealth and dollars in terms of your money. Now,

103
00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:37,520
Speaker 2: we'll talk about other assets that actually are productive that

104
00:05:37,720 --> 00:05:41,400
Speaker 2: generate things like bitcoin or your ability to acquire bitcoin,

105
00:05:41,480 --> 00:05:43,880
Speaker 2: or your ability to acquire dollars. But my view is

106
00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:46,560
Speaker 2: that when bitcoin becomes larger than the dollar, which is

107
00:05:46,600 --> 00:05:49,000
Speaker 2: eight trillion, which is eight trillion to day now, it

108
00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:50,880
Speaker 2: is dynamic because they're gonna have to print a lot

109
00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:54,359
Speaker 2: of money. You know, so in ten years, maybe that

110
00:05:54,440 --> 00:05:55,719
Speaker 2: eight trillion is twenty trillion.

111
00:05:55,800 --> 00:05:59,680
Speaker 1: Okay. You know then why gold's in a twelve trillion

112
00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:05,040
Speaker 1: hasn't done that because gold was the original base money.

113
00:06:05,560 --> 00:06:08,080
Speaker 1: Central banks are still buying well not still, they're buying

114
00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:11,599
Speaker 1: gold at record levels right now. The BIS, through the

115
00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:14,520
Speaker 1: Battle agreements, has had them start to recapitalize with gold.

116
00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:16,920
Speaker 1: We have talks of central banks and the bricks back

117
00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:20,159
Speaker 1: to gold reserves. China with their convertible gold in the

118
00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:22,799
Speaker 1: Shanghai Index and it's twelve training so it's a clip

119
00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:23,200
Speaker 1: to dollar.

120
00:06:23,760 --> 00:06:28,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would say that the differences that gold cannot

121
00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:33,680
Speaker 2: replace the dollar. In my view, gold failed, and so

122
00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:36,279
Speaker 2: to think about gold vias to be the dollar and

123
00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:37,440
Speaker 2: bitcoin vsv the.

124
00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:39,760
Speaker 1: Doll Why did gold fail? I mean, I agree that

125
00:06:39,839 --> 00:06:42,240
Speaker 1: gold failed, but I'm curious your reasons as to why goldfield.

126
00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:44,120
Speaker 1: Not that I disagree, but I'm just surious for you.

127
00:06:44,200 --> 00:06:47,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, my definition of gold failing was the fact that

128
00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:52,640
Speaker 2: the dollar system could be entirely severed from gold established.

129
00:06:53,760 --> 00:06:56,520
Speaker 2: It's the end of it, I think, at the end

130
00:06:56,520 --> 00:07:01,760
Speaker 2: of its life. The fact that the dollar started off

131
00:07:01,920 --> 00:07:05,240
Speaker 2: as a fractional representation of gold and so gold and

132
00:07:05,279 --> 00:07:08,880
Speaker 2: the dollar have this relationship that the dollar and bitcoin

133
00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:11,560
Speaker 2: do not. And so the way that I look at

134
00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:15,600
Speaker 2: the world is the dollar wouldn't exist if not gold

135
00:07:15,960 --> 00:07:21,400
Speaker 2: previously existed. The dollar itself does not have inherent monetary properties.

136
00:07:22,320 --> 00:07:26,240
Speaker 2: It leveraged gold's monetary properties. Start to get it, start

137
00:07:26,320 --> 00:07:29,160
Speaker 2: to say, hey, you can take this piece of gold

138
00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:31,280
Speaker 2: and come to the bank and get twenty ounces of gold.

139
00:07:31,280 --> 00:07:33,840
Speaker 2: That's what it initially was. Yeah, and then in nineteen

140
00:07:33,880 --> 00:07:35,760
Speaker 2: thirty three, as you well know, but for the audience,

141
00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:39,080
Speaker 2: they ban private ownership of gold, and then they devalued

142
00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:42,040
Speaker 2: you know, it's like, oh now you can't you actually

143
00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:45,600
Speaker 2: can't hold gold as a private individual. But also the

144
00:07:45,640 --> 00:07:48,760
Speaker 2: convertibility of gold dollars now thirty four to one, so

145
00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:52,520
Speaker 2: they devalue it. Point is that that started the process.

146
00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:54,880
Speaker 2: It's like if gold was viable as a form of

147
00:07:54,920 --> 00:07:58,000
Speaker 2: money in many ways, the dollar was a technological solution

148
00:07:58,080 --> 00:08:04,720
Speaker 2: to gold's limitations. Right, Portability, divisibility like gold, yes, as

149
00:08:05,040 --> 00:08:07,720
Speaker 2: you can divide it, but only through a highly chemical

150
00:08:07,760 --> 00:08:11,480
Speaker 2: process that's difficult, that requires very expensive equipment, and you

151
00:08:11,480 --> 00:08:14,920
Speaker 2: can't do it in a way that's facilitating trade. And

152
00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:17,960
Speaker 2: as the economy was advancing, so there was a limitation.

153
00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:19,920
Speaker 1: Of gold plus the trust right because we don't know

154
00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:22,640
Speaker 1: how pure the gold is or how much it weighs and.

155
00:08:22,560 --> 00:08:24,200
Speaker 2: Right, And so the solution was, we're going to put

156
00:08:24,200 --> 00:08:27,240
Speaker 2: it in banks. We're gonna give you these paper representations.

157
00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:30,960
Speaker 2: And that was actually a technological solution to the limitation.

158
00:08:31,720 --> 00:08:34,720
Speaker 2: Then is as so the dollar started as this reserve

159
00:08:34,840 --> 00:08:38,400
Speaker 2: back system. Gold was the reserve, and then at the

160
00:08:38,440 --> 00:08:43,160
Speaker 2: point that it was severed, the dollar had transitioned from

161
00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:47,280
Speaker 2: a reserve back currency to a debt that currency. The

162
00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:52,760
Speaker 2: same reason why gold can't untether from the dollar is

163
00:08:52,840 --> 00:08:56,240
Speaker 2: because gold. When I say gold fing.

164
00:08:56,240 --> 00:08:58,079
Speaker 1: Do you say the dollar? Do you mean off yet

165
00:08:58,080 --> 00:08:59,920
Speaker 1: currency or you mean the US dollars.

166
00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:04,920
Speaker 2: We were on like Breton woods. So the dollar was

167
00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:07,480
Speaker 2: the goal, was pegged to the dollar, and then everything

168
00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:09,800
Speaker 2: else was paid. Every other currency was pegged to the dollar.

169
00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:15,080
Speaker 2: To the dollar. So yes, I mean, I mean specifically

170
00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:20,640
Speaker 2: the severance of the US dollars specifically, but that functionally severed. Right.

171
00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:23,079
Speaker 1: I'm just curious because you know, you hear about the

172
00:09:23,160 --> 00:09:24,400
Speaker 1: rise of the bricks and then trying to launch a

173
00:09:24,400 --> 00:09:26,920
Speaker 1: goaldback currency. Always said like China with the goldback currency.

174
00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:29,200
Speaker 1: So there's the one point, because.

175
00:09:28,960 --> 00:09:30,800
Speaker 2: It's kind of be a little bit rabbit holes. But

176
00:09:32,120 --> 00:09:34,800
Speaker 2: gold cannot do what bitcoin can do, sure and everyone.

177
00:09:34,840 --> 00:09:40,319
Speaker 2: And the reason why this that gold cannot become untethered

178
00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:44,520
Speaker 2: is because you can't actually convert gold into goods and services.

179
00:09:45,400 --> 00:09:50,599
Speaker 2: You have to get dollars first. And so what functionally

180
00:09:50,640 --> 00:09:53,920
Speaker 2: happens is the dollar is tethered to this credit system

181
00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:56,800
Speaker 2: and gold is tethered to the dollars credit system, such

182
00:09:56,840 --> 00:09:58,920
Speaker 2: that like when you look at the Great Financial Crisis,

183
00:10:01,160 --> 00:10:05,080
Speaker 2: the stock market crash, everyone thinks of gold as a

184
00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:09,880
Speaker 2: fight to safety. Gold created crash, why because it was

185
00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:13,920
Speaker 2: levered to the dollar. Two all the gold holders were.

186
00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:17,480
Speaker 1: Actually trying to get all assets plunge at their time.

187
00:10:17,640 --> 00:10:20,079
Speaker 2: Right, But the point was it was because the system

188
00:10:20,280 --> 00:10:23,640
Speaker 2: was too leverage. The dollar credit system had become too leverage,

189
00:10:23,720 --> 00:10:26,000
Speaker 2: and there was a run on dollars. The people who

190
00:10:26,040 --> 00:10:29,679
Speaker 2: are out there trading gold, they're not actually using it

191
00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:33,640
Speaker 2: as money, they're using it to get more dollars, right, right.

192
00:10:33,920 --> 00:10:35,520
Speaker 2: And in also in case they don't actually want the

193
00:10:35,559 --> 00:10:38,160
Speaker 2: physical gold. I know in many cases they do. But

194
00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:41,560
Speaker 2: the point is that the dollar's origin was rooted in

195
00:10:41,679 --> 00:10:44,679
Speaker 2: gold's limitation is money the gold And there's a lot

196
00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:47,240
Speaker 2: of people, and I don't have any ill will against them,

197
00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:48,559
Speaker 2: but there's people that think we're gonna go back to

198
00:10:48,559 --> 00:10:50,679
Speaker 2: the gold standards. Sure, but when you start to realize

199
00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:53,520
Speaker 2: that the dollar's inception was because of the limitation of

200
00:10:53,559 --> 00:10:55,880
Speaker 2: gold is money and then the fact that it could

201
00:10:55,920 --> 00:10:59,560
Speaker 2: be severed from it in terms of when they said, oh, okay,

202
00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:03,880
Speaker 2: can you not own it privately, but now you can't

203
00:11:03,920 --> 00:11:07,680
Speaker 2: convert gold to dollars. You can come get your gold

204
00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:11,200
Speaker 2: back France and Germany, but you can't get dollars for

205
00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:16,520
Speaker 2: them anymore. That that was when the devort the dollar

206
00:11:16,640 --> 00:11:19,200
Speaker 2: was severed from gold. We were never going to go

207
00:11:19,240 --> 00:11:21,160
Speaker 2: back to that world. We were never going to go

208
00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:24,800
Speaker 2: back to something that needed the dollar to advance his money.

209
00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:28,400
Speaker 2: The only thing that could possibly replace it is something

210
00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:33,560
Speaker 2: that can actually outcompete the dollar, and that's what bitcoin

211
00:11:33,640 --> 00:11:37,680
Speaker 2: is doing. And so when you when you think about

212
00:11:37,720 --> 00:11:40,559
Speaker 2: the fact that gold can't actually be used to facilitate

213
00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:46,079
Speaker 2: commerce in a modern economy, that's it's ability to untether

214
00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:50,360
Speaker 2: from the dollar, like it's going to collapse against bitcoin,

215
00:11:50,920 --> 00:11:54,600
Speaker 2: you know, So like the really the ratio to think

216
00:11:54,600 --> 00:11:57,040
Speaker 2: about is that, like if bitcoin's a trillion today and

217
00:11:57,080 --> 00:12:00,280
Speaker 2: gold's twelve trillion, that that too is going to that

218
00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:02,600
Speaker 2: there's going to be this whole conversion of people that

219
00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:06,000
Speaker 2: have goal that are going to need to increasingly sell

220
00:12:06,040 --> 00:12:09,880
Speaker 2: it to get money to operate in the real economy.

221
00:12:10,040 --> 00:12:11,440
Speaker 1: All right, I want to take a break real quick

222
00:12:11,520 --> 00:12:12,960
Speaker 1: just to let you know that if you're sick of

223
00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:15,920
Speaker 1: the global elites robbing you blind through frivolous money printing

224
00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:17,960
Speaker 1: like I am, then you should be at the Bitcoin

225
00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:21,200
Speaker 1: twenty twenty four conference in Nashville, Tennessee, to lie twenty

226
00:12:21,200 --> 00:12:24,640
Speaker 1: fifth through twenty seven. It's the largest bitcoin gathering fintech

227
00:12:24,679 --> 00:12:27,559
Speaker 1: conference in the world, and twenty twenty four Bitcoin stands

228
00:12:27,559 --> 00:12:29,920
Speaker 1: as a beacon of monetary freedom, a glimmer of hope

229
00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:32,960
Speaker 1: amongst the darkening the macroeconomic backdrop. Come hang out with

230
00:12:33,080 --> 00:12:36,520
Speaker 1: me and other top speakers, companies, thought leaders from across

231
00:12:36,559 --> 00:12:39,880
Speaker 1: the industry will all be in Nashville looking ahead to

232
00:12:39,920 --> 00:12:41,880
Speaker 1: the next year and beyond. Now. Ticket prices are on

233
00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:44,080
Speaker 1: sale right now and you can get an extra ten

234
00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:47,160
Speaker 1: percent off if you use my code Mark Moss. But

235
00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:49,440
Speaker 1: make sure you're secure your spot right now, it's going

236
00:12:49,520 --> 00:12:51,679
Speaker 1: to sell out and ticket prices go up over time.

237
00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:54,560
Speaker 1: Use mark Moss for a ten percent off discount. And

238
00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:57,679
Speaker 1: if you do, send me your code that you used

239
00:12:57,760 --> 00:12:59,480
Speaker 1: my code to buy your ticket, and I'm going to

240
00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:02,120
Speaker 1: invite you to special event that I'm having, so make

241
00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:04,520
Speaker 1: sure you get your ticket. Bitcoin twenty twenty four, use

242
00:13:04,559 --> 00:13:06,439
Speaker 1: mark Moss for ten percent off, and I hope to

243
00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:06,960
Speaker 1: see there.

244
00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:11,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, because you can actually trade a bitcoin for a car,

245
00:13:12,040 --> 00:13:16,800
Speaker 2: a bottle of water, a house, a football team. You

246
00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:18,719
Speaker 2: can buy a building with it, you.

247
00:13:18,679 --> 00:13:21,160
Speaker 1: Know, as opposed to gold, you need to convert first.

248
00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:24,880
Speaker 2: You need to actually demand dollars, so because you can't

249
00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:27,640
Speaker 2: because you can't facilitate trade in it directly. You cannot

250
00:13:27,880 --> 00:13:34,560
Speaker 2: facilitate direct commerce between gold and things at the grocery store, right,

251
00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:35,960
Speaker 2: but you can with a bitcoin.

252
00:13:36,080 --> 00:13:40,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, so obviously we agree on on this. I gave

253
00:13:40,160 --> 00:13:42,400
Speaker 1: a talk at Bitcoin Amsterdam and the title was the

254
00:13:42,440 --> 00:13:45,120
Speaker 1: end of the international Monetary Order, so not just the

255
00:13:45,240 --> 00:13:47,280
Speaker 1: end of the dollar, but the end of FIAT and

256
00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:50,160
Speaker 1: the monetary order that we have overall. And I said

257
00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:52,520
Speaker 1: there's two potential pass forward that they're going to try

258
00:13:52,559 --> 00:13:54,360
Speaker 1: and take us. Either maybe one going back to gold,

259
00:13:54,600 --> 00:13:55,920
Speaker 1: but it will fail for the same reason as it

260
00:13:55,920 --> 00:13:58,800
Speaker 1: felled before. So obviously we agree on that they might

261
00:13:58,840 --> 00:14:00,520
Speaker 1: try to go back to a go to a CBDC.

262
00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:03,360
Speaker 1: So there's like the m bridge that we're working on

263
00:14:03,440 --> 00:14:05,400
Speaker 1: China's working on with the BIS, but that's still FIAT,

264
00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:08,800
Speaker 1: so that's going to fail too. And I don't see

265
00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:13,080
Speaker 1: how the world moves forward without having some trustless, decentralized

266
00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:17,000
Speaker 1: neutral reserve asset. So we agree on on the outcome.

267
00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:22,880
Speaker 1: I'm just discussing the mechanics of this and so I.

268
00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:24,360
Speaker 2: And I was just highlighting to like kind of like

269
00:14:24,920 --> 00:14:26,840
Speaker 2: you know, if you think about because oftimes people think

270
00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:28,760
Speaker 2: about like the dollar prices of bitcoin, like what if

271
00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:31,520
Speaker 2: it's a million, right, Well what if it's ten million?

272
00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:34,360
Speaker 2: And if you start to just think about the brass tacks,

273
00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:35,280
Speaker 2: well let's just go through the.

274
00:14:35,280 --> 00:14:36,920
Speaker 1: Extra So that's where I want to get to.

275
00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:40,600
Speaker 2: Then it starts to become larger than the dollar system, right.

276
00:14:40,680 --> 00:14:43,240
Speaker 2: And so if these are two monies competing with each

277
00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:47,680
Speaker 2: other and one starts to break out in a way

278
00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:51,080
Speaker 2: that now I'm big brother me bitcoin, I'm bigger than dollar.

279
00:14:51,760 --> 00:14:56,400
Speaker 2: That in that world people, it becomes very obvious to

280
00:14:56,520 --> 00:14:59,760
Speaker 2: the lion's share of people that this thing's bitcoin is

281
00:14:59,800 --> 00:15:03,400
Speaker 2: real and I need to get some now, and so like,

282
00:15:03,800 --> 00:15:07,840
Speaker 2: it's not going to stay in some like gradual stasis forever.

283
00:15:08,280 --> 00:15:09,960
Speaker 2: There is going to be that period of time where

284
00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:12,960
Speaker 2: it becomes obvious. And in my world, it becomes obvious

285
00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:17,280
Speaker 2: when bitcoin becomes larger than the dollar and somewhere between

286
00:15:17,520 --> 00:15:22,000
Speaker 2: a million dollars per bitcoin and three million dollars per bitcoin.

287
00:15:22,960 --> 00:15:25,720
Speaker 2: You know, obviously it's variable based on how much base

288
00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:28,520
Speaker 2: money the Fed's gonna have to create. Somewhere in that range,

289
00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:32,520
Speaker 2: Bitcoin flips the dollar system and that's where I see this,

290
00:15:32,760 --> 00:15:35,680
Speaker 2: you know, basically rush out of the dollar and into

291
00:15:35,680 --> 00:15:37,040
Speaker 2: bitcoin for the entire world.

292
00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:39,200
Speaker 1: So that's the mechanism that I want to dig into.

293
00:15:39,360 --> 00:15:41,480
Speaker 1: Just this last weekend, I flew here from Mexico City.

294
00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:43,920
Speaker 1: I spoke at a conference called Sovereign Man. I spoke

295
00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:46,920
Speaker 1: to their mastermind, and it's all about being sovereign. And

296
00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:50,440
Speaker 1: you wouldn't put all your life in all your money

297
00:15:50,440 --> 00:15:52,120
Speaker 1: in one stock, So why do you have your whole

298
00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:54,480
Speaker 1: life in one country. You should have flag theory, multiple

299
00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:56,680
Speaker 1: passports and multiple bank accounts, and you should have gold

300
00:15:56,720 --> 00:15:58,440
Speaker 1: stashed in vaults all around the world, and I went

301
00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:01,080
Speaker 1: there and I said, you can't be true sovereign without bitcoin.

302
00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:04,240
Speaker 1: I didn't realize this, but Peter Shiff is actually part owner,

303
00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:08,000
Speaker 1: so then I was the bitcoin guy and I had

304
00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:09,960
Speaker 1: to go against Peter Shift. So I make the exact

305
00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:13,080
Speaker 1: same case as you. The only difference is I think

306
00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:16,240
Speaker 1: the suddenly part is maybe not so sudden. I think

307
00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:18,560
Speaker 1: it's further out. So I want to learn your thesis

308
00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:20,800
Speaker 1: because I don't know right. I want to explore that.

309
00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:25,680
Speaker 1: But certainly we agree on the outcome. But let me

310
00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:28,640
Speaker 1: ask you a couple questions. Because if I think about bitcoin,

311
00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:31,400
Speaker 1: and I think about gold, and I think about dollars,

312
00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:34,160
Speaker 1: and I think of if I think this from a

313
00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:38,600
Speaker 1: first principle's philosophical level, right, the law of energy. Right,

314
00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:41,120
Speaker 1: energy isn't created, It's only transferred. So we talk about

315
00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:43,760
Speaker 1: bitcoin as like a store of energy. Meaning I've exerted

316
00:16:43,840 --> 00:16:47,840
Speaker 1: energy my burned calories. I exert energy. I don't need

317
00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:49,960
Speaker 1: to consume all that energy I'll put, so I store

318
00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:51,240
Speaker 1: some of it in money so I don't have to

319
00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:54,080
Speaker 1: work tomorrow. I can just spend that stave money. Right, Yeah,

320
00:16:54,160 --> 00:16:57,560
Speaker 1: And Ultimately, if you think that we don't want money,

321
00:16:57,640 --> 00:16:59,680
Speaker 1: what we really want is the goods and services that

322
00:16:59,760 --> 00:17:04,240
Speaker 1: money buys us. So we need places to store our value,

323
00:17:04,359 --> 00:17:08,240
Speaker 1: our energy, and until we're ready to get the goods

324
00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:09,160
Speaker 1: and services that we want.

325
00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:09,720
Speaker 2: Correct.

326
00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:12,840
Speaker 1: Okay, So then if you think about that, then if

327
00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:15,560
Speaker 1: you think about bitcoin or just money in general, money

328
00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:19,000
Speaker 1: is that medium of exchange that could be a store value.

329
00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:20,480
Speaker 1: But we found out that money doesn't have to be

330
00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:23,479
Speaker 1: a store value. I don't know if that's wrong, but

331
00:17:23,600 --> 00:17:26,200
Speaker 1: like we store our value in real estate. We stored

332
00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:30,680
Speaker 1: in bonds, we stored in obviously FIAT, we stored in stocks,

333
00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:33,000
Speaker 1: we stored in gold, we stored it in all kinds

334
00:17:33,040 --> 00:17:36,480
Speaker 1: of things. So the dollar failed to store value for sure.

335
00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:39,760
Speaker 1: Maybe some what was that, Michael Salor? We have a

336
00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:41,640
Speaker 1: name for them. We call them poor people who save

337
00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:44,120
Speaker 1: in viat guarancy. Did you see that? Yeah?

338
00:17:44,119 --> 00:17:49,520
Speaker 2: And I think that it's that everyone's looking for money

339
00:17:49,680 --> 00:17:53,760
Speaker 2: that best stores its value, right, But storing value is

340
00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:57,560
Speaker 2: not something that's static. It's in terms of its ability

341
00:17:57,640 --> 00:18:00,879
Speaker 2: to purchase real goodnserves. And we certainly agree on that

342
00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:06,119
Speaker 2: that that wealth is the ability to to accumulate capital

343
00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:10,280
Speaker 2: and consume things and to be able to consume more

344
00:18:10,320 --> 00:18:13,480
Speaker 2: things that we value with less units of time. Sure

345
00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:18,600
Speaker 2: and so and money looking at you know, a balancing

346
00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:21,320
Speaker 2: your account or thinking about the things that it could

347
00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:24,640
Speaker 2: buy is not really wealth. It's you need a good

348
00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:28,119
Speaker 2: form of money to be able to facilitate trade. And

349
00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:32,680
Speaker 2: then between those series of exchanges and trades, you need

350
00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:37,000
Speaker 2: your value that you've traded to to be preserved in

351
00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:39,400
Speaker 2: order to make the next trade, because if it evaporates

352
00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:42,320
Speaker 2: between the amount of energy you put in and the

353
00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:45,520
Speaker 2: energy you got out, that that's not sustainable. You can't

354
00:18:45,560 --> 00:18:49,800
Speaker 2: survive that way. And so in the field world, like

355
00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:54,879
Speaker 2: you mentioned stocks, bonds, realistically, we people have started to

356
00:18:54,960 --> 00:18:58,399
Speaker 2: use those as stores of value because the money is broken,

357
00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:00,160
Speaker 2: right and.

358
00:18:59,800 --> 00:19:03,000
Speaker 1: That some majority of well I.

359
00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:06,240
Speaker 2: View that as risk taking. You know it's there. They're

360
00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:10,600
Speaker 2: actually instruments to to try to create wealth, because whatever

361
00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:12,439
Speaker 2: is on the other side of a stock is a

362
00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:17,240
Speaker 2: company that's endeavoring to make capital to then earn money.

363
00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:22,440
Speaker 2: But that those things are fundamentally different from it from

364
00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:25,760
Speaker 2: what they are in terms of they are actually designed

365
00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:29,080
Speaker 2: in some form or fashion to create wealth, but they've

366
00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:32,800
Speaker 2: been used more as a store of value in the

367
00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:33,600
Speaker 2: sense of.

368
00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:36,400
Speaker 1: The everyday person with an index find kind of thing.

369
00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:39,280
Speaker 1: And I think that that world will also go away.

370
00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:41,639
Speaker 2: It doesn't mean that socks and bods will go away,

371
00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:45,000
Speaker 2: but they will revert back to their kind of Their

372
00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:51,080
Speaker 2: original purpose was to basically pool capital to then produce things,

373
00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:54,760
Speaker 2: rather than passively whold because you know that your money

374
00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:56,120
Speaker 2: is losing two.

375
00:19:56,040 --> 00:19:58,200
Speaker 1: To former and I agree with you on that. I would,

376
00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:01,919
Speaker 1: I would definitely agree. So all of Wall Street is

377
00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:03,920
Speaker 1: built on the fact that people need to store their

378
00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:05,879
Speaker 1: wealth somewhere and they can't do it in fiat. And

379
00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:07,879
Speaker 1: once we can store it and just bitcoin, then it

380
00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:10,200
Speaker 1: demonetizes a lot of that and then most of Wall

381
00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:12,520
Speaker 1: Street and the financial advisors probably go away. But we're

382
00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:14,359
Speaker 1: still going to need to finance companies and things like that.

383
00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:17,720
Speaker 1: But it's much more productive debt. So we certainly agree.

384
00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:21,000
Speaker 1: And so you know, I view it as certainly taking

385
00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:23,480
Speaker 1: a lot of value from gold, maybe eventually at some

386
00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:26,399
Speaker 1: point all of it. Certainly taken a lot of value

387
00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:29,080
Speaker 1: from stocks and bonds. Certainly's taken a lot of value

388
00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:30,959
Speaker 1: from real estate, but we still need houses to live in,

389
00:20:31,119 --> 00:20:33,119
Speaker 1: so it certainly takes a lot of that value. But

390
00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:34,679
Speaker 1: it doesn't mean it goes away.

391
00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:36,720
Speaker 2: No, they don't. I just think they will start to

392
00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:38,200
Speaker 2: become denominated in bitcoin.

393
00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:38,720
Speaker 1: Right.

394
00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:41,560
Speaker 2: So you know, you raise a company, and your company's

395
00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:46,199
Speaker 2: building things and in intending to generate a profit. What

396
00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:48,000
Speaker 2: is that profit stored in money?

397
00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:48,400
Speaker 1: Right?

398
00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:49,919
Speaker 2: You know? And then I take the money and I

399
00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:53,480
Speaker 2: put it back, I reallocate the capitals to go build

400
00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:55,640
Speaker 2: more to allow the.

401
00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:57,280
Speaker 1: Cycle to contain a unit of accounts.

402
00:20:57,320 --> 00:20:59,680
Speaker 2: So right, but then like stock, as my point would be,

403
00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:04,400
Speaker 2: then the cash flow becomes bitcoin, right, like I there's

404
00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:04,879
Speaker 2: a bond.

405
00:21:05,320 --> 00:21:07,119
Speaker 1: Well, everything works the same, it's just the way you

406
00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:09,680
Speaker 1: measure the unit of account is now denominated in bitcoin.

407
00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:12,240
Speaker 1: You measured in bitcoin as opposed to measured in euro

408
00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:13,680
Speaker 1: yen payso dollar.

409
00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:15,760
Speaker 2: Yeah or yeah for so a worse unit.

410
00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:18,960
Speaker 1: Of account, right yeah? Yeah. I just think it happens

411
00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:20,720
Speaker 1: in a fifty to sixty year time frame. And you

412
00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:21,720
Speaker 1: think it happens to do.

413
00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:25,840
Speaker 2: You think that, you know, if if humans have to

414
00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:30,919
Speaker 2: have good money to survive and to and combination of survive,

415
00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:33,840
Speaker 2: which I mean by trade to get things that they

416
00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:37,040
Speaker 2: can't otherwise produce that they need to sustain themselves, and

417
00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:40,480
Speaker 2: then thrive in the sense of produce wealth that makes

418
00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:43,840
Speaker 2: that riches their life, and to be able to consume

419
00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:49,240
Speaker 2: the things that allow for life to be more enjoyable. Well,

420
00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:51,520
Speaker 2: we know how much money they're printing. We know it

421
00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:54,320
Speaker 2: can't go on forever, and ten years is a long time.

422
00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:57,160
Speaker 1: And this question, at the rate we're going and.

423
00:21:57,080 --> 00:22:01,479
Speaker 2: Bitcoin adoption happens, is knowledge distribute So as there's books

424
00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:04,919
Speaker 2: like the Bitcoin Standard, my book rather and suddenly you

425
00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:08,199
Speaker 2: doing these podcasts, what I'm saying is, think about all

426
00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:11,000
Speaker 2: the knowledge distribution that happens over the next ten years,

427
00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:11,960
Speaker 2: because it should.

428
00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:13,960
Speaker 1: Accelerate, Yeah, it goes exponential, yes.

429
00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:19,680
Speaker 2: And so is it unrealistic to think that the bitcoin

430
00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:23,840
Speaker 2: system in terms of bitcoin adoption, grows between ten x

431
00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:26,600
Speaker 2: and one hundred x over the next ten years, because

432
00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:30,439
Speaker 2: if it does, then it is bigger than the dollar system.

433
00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:33,360
Speaker 2: And then where we might disagree is what is the

434
00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:37,879
Speaker 2: consequence of bitcoin becoming larger than the dollar? Because my

435
00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:40,280
Speaker 2: view is when it becomes larger than the dollars, when

436
00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:44,440
Speaker 2: it becomes obvious to everybody that this isn't just the

437
00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:47,640
Speaker 2: shiny objects design. The fact that it could be ten

438
00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:51,320
Speaker 2: to one hundred x larger is because people have come

439
00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:53,760
Speaker 2: to that growing consensus.

440
00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:57,919
Speaker 1: And specifically because it has money attributes, because again, gold

441
00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:01,280
Speaker 1: is bigger than the dollar, real estate, all the other

442
00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:03,760
Speaker 1: stores of value assets are bigger than the dollar, but

443
00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:07,680
Speaker 1: because they don't have money attributes, they can't replace it.

444
00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:10,200
Speaker 2: Yes, And what I mentioned earlier is like the way

445
00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:14,040
Speaker 2: that I view gold. It's like, technically gold is larger

446
00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:16,920
Speaker 2: than the all to day but it is inherently tethered

447
00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:19,320
Speaker 2: to the dollar credits.

448
00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:20,720
Speaker 1: Because it needed debt.

449
00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:21,800
Speaker 2: It needs added in order.

450
00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:22,360
Speaker 1: To have velocity.

451
00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:25,480
Speaker 2: It needs the dollar as an intermediary to get to

452
00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:29,600
Speaker 2: goods and services, right, because it's not actually functional as money.

453
00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:33,160
Speaker 1: Because it and bitcoin is the first asset that can

454
00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:35,760
Speaker 1: have pure velocity without debt being added onto it.

455
00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:41,400
Speaker 2: Yes, in my view, and it ultimately shares the scarcity

456
00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:46,240
Speaker 2: of gold, perfects it, but provides the direct means of

457
00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:51,640
Speaker 2: exchange in the fact that you compare the finite scarce asset,

458
00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:55,600
Speaker 2: which is the bitcoin supply, with the ability to transfer

459
00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:58,320
Speaker 2: it over a communication channel, and that you can send

460
00:23:58,359 --> 00:24:01,520
Speaker 2: the equivalent of a billion dollars worth of value just

461
00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:05,560
Speaker 2: as easily as you can functionally send ten dollars equivalent

462
00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:08,760
Speaker 2: to value and so if you if you think about

463
00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:11,000
Speaker 2: anybody who ever wants to get a good or service

464
00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:14,000
Speaker 2: that has gold, they've got to take that. And I'm

465
00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:16,520
Speaker 2: sure there's somebody who's willing to take a bar of

466
00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:19,480
Speaker 2: gold and convert it for a car at some portion of.

467
00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:21,680
Speaker 1: The country, but not very many.

468
00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:25,440
Speaker 2: But it's not practical and it doesn't happen because of

469
00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:28,680
Speaker 2: what gold is as a medium, and that is not

470
00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:32,680
Speaker 2: true of bitcoin. And so each time you want something,

471
00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:34,520
Speaker 2: if you're holding gold, you got to sell for an hour.

472
00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:36,800
Speaker 2: You have to demand dollars to get goods or services

473
00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:39,959
Speaker 2: the thing that you actually want by holding money as

474
00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:43,960
Speaker 2: a store of value between exchanges, and that limitation is

475
00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:47,160
Speaker 2: what tethers it to the dollar. The same thing isn't

476
00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:48,520
Speaker 2: true of bitcoin.

477
00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:50,359
Speaker 1: I mean it kind of is, but it's changing rapidly.

478
00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:52,760
Speaker 2: It's changing. What I'm saying is but to your point

479
00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:56,320
Speaker 2: about the monetary properties, it has that scarcity. But one

480
00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:59,760
Speaker 2: property it has that that gold does not is that

481
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:04,000
Speaker 2: you can transfer transfer a finite scarce asset over a

482
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:06,919
Speaker 2: communication show. Yeah, like that is that is the revolutionary

483
00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:10,560
Speaker 2: sure thing about bitwoin and so it has a moneiness. Yeah,

484
00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:14,680
Speaker 2: the ability to be exchanged that it's far greater. And

485
00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:16,919
Speaker 2: you know, going back to well, the dollar wouldn't be

486
00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:20,000
Speaker 2: here if there wasn't that limitation of gold as a

487
00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:21,120
Speaker 2: mean of exchange.

488
00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:24,960
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean again, we agree on the inevitability, and

489
00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:26,840
Speaker 1: the more I talk about it, the more inevitable. It

490
00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:29,080
Speaker 1: just seems to me. When I was there at the

491
00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:31,440
Speaker 1: Sobernman Conference, it just shocks me that these people are

492
00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:34,359
Speaker 1: They're still thinking about stashing gold all around the world.

493
00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:36,800
Speaker 1: And I'm like, but that assumes one that you can

494
00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:38,480
Speaker 1: get to that gold, and too that those people allow

495
00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:40,720
Speaker 1: you to even get your gold, which is archaic to me.

496
00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:42,719
Speaker 1: But when I was debating Peter Shiff, I'm just like,

497
00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:45,160
Speaker 1: I bet you I could find way more people here

498
00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:47,600
Speaker 1: in Mexico City right now to take my bitcoin than

499
00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:51,159
Speaker 1: you could get to take right When I was in

500
00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:53,280
Speaker 1: Europe this last summer with my family, most of the

501
00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:57,040
Speaker 1: money changers I saw excepted bitcoin as well. They didn't

502
00:25:57,080 --> 00:25:59,399
Speaker 1: take gold, yeah, but they took the thing because they

503
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:01,600
Speaker 1: functionally can't, right, So I thought that was pretty interesting

504
00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:04,720
Speaker 1: as well. So I typically think about the demise of

505
00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:10,400
Speaker 1: the dollar sort of gradually, then suddenly in the law

506
00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:13,640
Speaker 1: of diminishing returns in a sense per Kinzian economics. They've

507
00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:15,720
Speaker 1: taken on debt in order to get growth, but with

508
00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:18,639
Speaker 1: the kinsey In multiplier at like ninety percent, they start

509
00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:21,280
Speaker 1: to not get enough growth for the debt they take on.

510
00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:23,720
Speaker 1: And right now we're getting about forty cents of growth

511
00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:26,600
Speaker 1: for every dollar of debt, and eventually it's twenty eight

512
00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:30,200
Speaker 1: and then it's ten, and then there's no growth for debt, right,

513
00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:33,320
Speaker 1: and so how long does that take? I don't really know,

514
00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:35,679
Speaker 1: but that's kind of the mechanism that well.

515
00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:38,840
Speaker 2: Let mean, I always generally look to history, right, because

516
00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:42,080
Speaker 2: like it is very what history? I look at history?

517
00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:42,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, of course.

518
00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:46,320
Speaker 2: So I think we're living through hyperinflation. Remember Jack Dorsey

519
00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:49,080
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty one, Yeah, he put out a tweet

520
00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:50,880
Speaker 2: and said, hyper inflation is happening.

521
00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:55,040
Speaker 1: What would you say the definition of that hyper inflation is?

522
00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:56,159
Speaker 1: Where do we go for inflation?

523
00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:59,200
Speaker 2: I think there's a technical definition, which is something like.

524
00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:04,640
Speaker 1: A month over month. I think something like that, Yeah,

525
00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:08,560
Speaker 1: you know, what did you call it?

526
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:13,960
Speaker 2: I would My view of it is when your money

527
00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:17,600
Speaker 2: is losing value so fast that you can actively observe it,

528
00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:20,840
Speaker 2: or at least that that's the sign that you're in it.

529
00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:29,760
Speaker 2: And but so I use an example of in twenty thirteen,

530
00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:35,440
Speaker 2: I think it was GM operated in Venezuela. They had

531
00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:40,680
Speaker 2: actual auto manufacturing in Venezuela to sell cars to the

532
00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:48,160
Speaker 2: Venezuelan market. Well, they had to import supplies from their

533
00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:53,160
Speaker 2: global supply chain to get them to Venezuela, and they

534
00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:57,240
Speaker 2: held Venezuelan currency and they would convert because they would

535
00:27:57,240 --> 00:27:59,439
Speaker 2: take Venezuelan currency and return for their cars, and then

536
00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:03,159
Speaker 2: they need to come at that Venezuelan currency into dollars

537
00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:08,320
Speaker 2: to get real parts to be able to continue to manufacture. Well,

538
00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:11,800
Speaker 2: it was either in twenty thirteen or twenty fourteen, they

539
00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:16,359
Speaker 2: rode off their currency reserves in Venezuela by something like

540
00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:24,359
Speaker 2: eighty percent. And at the time they the government adjusted

541
00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:26,920
Speaker 2: the exchange rate by fifty percent, like basically a fifty

542
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:31,400
Speaker 2: percent devaluation money. Within a year or two later, GM

543
00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:36,359
Speaker 2: had written off all of their currency because it couldn't

544
00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:38,520
Speaker 2: buy anything. It's like, it doesn't matter what the government says,

545
00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:43,120
Speaker 2: it is couldn't buy anything. And then when you look

546
00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:45,600
Speaker 2: up and I was like twenty fifteen, when you look up,

547
00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:51,800
Speaker 2: when did hyperinflation start in Venezuela twenty sixteen, so the

548
00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:55,920
Speaker 2: currency had devalued fifty percent. And if you think about

549
00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:59,480
Speaker 2: where we're at beef at the grocery store from four

550
00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:06,320
Speaker 2: years ago, people can observe prices changing. You go to

551
00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:10,960
Speaker 2: grocery or restaurants, they'll either have things blacked out on

552
00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:13,800
Speaker 2: menus or they don't even have menus, because it's not

553
00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:16,320
Speaker 2: because of not touching things for COVID, because the prices

554
00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:20,560
Speaker 2: are changing so frequently you can't keep printing menus. So

555
00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:22,640
Speaker 2: my point is that when we look at the world

556
00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:25,840
Speaker 2: around us and we look at patterns of what have

557
00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:29,280
Speaker 2: happened in hyper inflation, hyperinflation doesn't just go from like

558
00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:33,480
Speaker 2: nonexistent to the currency literally doesn't hold value in the

559
00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:39,320
Speaker 2: prior month. It starts in this acceleration of the decrease

560
00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:42,120
Speaker 2: in purchasing power in a way that once it becomes

561
00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:45,440
Speaker 2: observable on a month to month basis, like it used

562
00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:47,120
Speaker 2: to be the case were I remember when a beer

563
00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:50,040
Speaker 2: costs a dollar, right, well, when it was last month

564
00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:51,960
Speaker 2: and the beer costs six dollars and now it costs

565
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:55,080
Speaker 2: seven dollars this month. That's different than what it costs

566
00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:57,560
Speaker 2: when you were a kid. Sure, right, and that's what

567
00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:01,400
Speaker 2: we're living through now. And in the GM example, by

568
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:04,000
Speaker 2: twenty seventeen, they shut down all operations, you know, so

569
00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:08,640
Speaker 2: and then goods become scarce. That's the other side of hyperinflation,

570
00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:13,000
Speaker 2: that as the money deteriorates, the ability to deliver goods

571
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:16,240
Speaker 2: and services that people came to rely upon via that

572
00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:20,840
Speaker 2: economic system surrounding single currency no longer functions, so goods

573
00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:26,640
Speaker 2: actually become scarce as money becomes abundant. And so, you know,

574
00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:29,520
Speaker 2: I don't talk about hyperinflation to scare people. What I'm saying,

575
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:31,400
Speaker 2: if we look at the patterns that are in our

576
00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:34,560
Speaker 2: life and we compare it to other examples in history,

577
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:37,480
Speaker 2: we're we're in the middle of it, you know, And

578
00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:40,680
Speaker 2: you know, how long can it be sustained? When bitcoin

579
00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:43,040
Speaker 2: is there is a much more viable option to be

580
00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:46,800
Speaker 2: the off ramp to It's hard to believe that humans

581
00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:50,080
Speaker 2: can both be rational and allow this to persist in

582
00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:50,800
Speaker 2: other ten years.

583
00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:54,320
Speaker 1: Maybe I'm wrong, you know, I don't disagree with it

584
00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:56,560
Speaker 1: with much of that. I mean, I posted the meme

585
00:30:56,600 --> 00:30:58,760
Speaker 1: the other day of all the ship sinking in the

586
00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:01,120
Speaker 1: USD was thin. The ship sinking like the slowest and

587
00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:03,719
Speaker 1: I just said, usd bowls don't realize this. Their unit

588
00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:06,680
Speaker 1: of account is wrong, because you see it happening in Turkey.

589
00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:08,800
Speaker 1: The turkuers layers dropped ninety percent of the US dollar.

590
00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:12,640
Speaker 1: The you know, Venezuela, Lebanon, in Venezuela, or Argentina, you

591
00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:16,320
Speaker 1: can just name them off. The dollars staying strong. But again,

592
00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:19,320
Speaker 1: if you price it in S and P five hundred,

593
00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:21,720
Speaker 1: it's down sixty five percent in the last four years. Yeah,

594
00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:23,920
Speaker 1: it's down fifty percent to stake down for percent of gas,

595
00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:26,640
Speaker 1: down four percent of US median real estate, et cetera.

596
00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:28,880
Speaker 1: So the dollars crashing too. So we're seeing that, right,

597
00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:33,360
Speaker 1: So yeah, I certainly don't disagree. And you know, whether

598
00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:35,560
Speaker 1: it's inflation or hyper inflation is the same thing I

599
00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:39,000
Speaker 1: think we're in, like the crack up boom, which is

600
00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:41,920
Speaker 1: basically essentially the same thing. Right, little by Mesa says that,

601
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:44,920
Speaker 1: and then suddenly back to your book, And then suddenly

602
00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:48,480
Speaker 1: people realize that inflation is both permanent and intentional, and

603
00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:51,360
Speaker 1: so a lot of this talk of the Fed keep going,

604
00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:53,960
Speaker 1: we have to get back to two percent inflation, two

605
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:58,640
Speaker 1: percent two percent. People realize it's intentional and permanent, and

606
00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:01,040
Speaker 1: then there has as Mesas says, they'll quickly go out

607
00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:02,880
Speaker 1: and try to exchange their currency for any type of

608
00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:05,200
Speaker 1: asset they can, which I think is one reason why

609
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:07,000
Speaker 1: when when the FED raised the rates at the fastest

610
00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:09,720
Speaker 1: rate in history, and everyone said, when mortgage rates go

611
00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:12,080
Speaker 1: from three percent to eight percent, home prices have to

612
00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:14,360
Speaker 1: come down. They have to have to have to, but

613
00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:17,280
Speaker 1: they didn't. And they said, well, stock prices have to

614
00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:19,360
Speaker 1: get repriced lower. They have to, they have to have to.

615
00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:21,680
Speaker 1: They didn't. Part of it is I think people are

616
00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:23,719
Speaker 1: realizing that they don't want to go back to currency.

617
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:25,760
Speaker 1: They'd rather just hold the asset even if it's an

618
00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:28,880
Speaker 1: inferior asset for now, because the information gap to bitcoin

619
00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:32,280
Speaker 1: hasn't hasn't been present yet. The one thing that we

620
00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:34,400
Speaker 1: were saying before we started recording, though, is I was

621
00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:37,640
Speaker 1: saying that I think that bitcoin. A lot of times

622
00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:39,960
Speaker 1: in bitcoin we hear that for bitcoin to be worth

623
00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:42,080
Speaker 1: a million dollars or five million dollars ten dollars, then the

624
00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:44,320
Speaker 1: dollar would be worthless. And I was saying that it

625
00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:47,560
Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily have to be that way, because bitcoin could

626
00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:50,480
Speaker 1: steal value from other things. So it could pull value

627
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:54,120
Speaker 1: from gold or pull value from bonds, and the dollar

628
00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:57,800
Speaker 1: could still be functioning, and you're thinking that that's not

629
00:32:57,880 --> 00:32:58,760
Speaker 1: the case. At least.

630
00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:01,520
Speaker 2: What I'm saying is I would still think that the

631
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:05,120
Speaker 2: dollar's functioning when bitcoin's the same size of it. I'm

632
00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:09,320
Speaker 2: just saying that that becomes the tipping point where there's

633
00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:14,719
Speaker 2: it's susceptible to a run, you know. And so you know,

634
00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:19,360
Speaker 2: if GM devalued their currency by fifty percent and then

635
00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:22,120
Speaker 2: ninety nine percent over the course of three years, there

636
00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:26,120
Speaker 2: were still people using boulevars to make ends meet. It

637
00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:30,000
Speaker 2: was working less and less. Well, I just look at

638
00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:34,560
Speaker 2: it as Bitcoin is going to steal purchasing power for

639
00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:39,280
Speaker 2: things that started to become used like money substitutes because

640
00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:43,080
Speaker 2: the money was bad. But what it's really competing against

641
00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:46,280
Speaker 2: is the dollar as money. It's just that these other

642
00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:50,400
Speaker 2: things that people started to turn to because they had

643
00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:54,280
Speaker 2: bad money will also decline in purchasing.

644
00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:57,000
Speaker 1: Power to really gobble those up. First, I think, so

645
00:33:57,520 --> 00:34:00,120
Speaker 1: before it gets the money, so the money set.

646
00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:01,960
Speaker 2: I think it will be both. I think will be

647
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:06,800
Speaker 2: the money and the money substitutes. The thing that don't

648
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:09,560
Speaker 2: fall into money substitutes in my world are like, you

649
00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:13,480
Speaker 2: need oil on a recurring basis, you need gas on

650
00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:18,960
Speaker 2: a recurring basis, you need steel, you need telecommunication, you

651
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:23,720
Speaker 2: need productive assets that have to be delivered on demand.

652
00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:28,920
Speaker 2: Right that those things, like someone might buy the S

653
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:32,160
Speaker 2: and P five hundred as a store of value, but

654
00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:36,200
Speaker 2: at and T that is part of the S and

655
00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:39,560
Speaker 2: P five hundred is not the S and P five hundred.

656
00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:42,839
Speaker 2: It's actually a productive asset.

657
00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:46,120
Speaker 1: And so it's like a Warren Buffett says that he

658
00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:49,800
Speaker 1: doesn't buy stocks. He buys companies that just happened to

659
00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:52,759
Speaker 1: be publicly traded. So he's buying productive and that's his

660
00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:53,719
Speaker 1: whole thing he wants to buy.

661
00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:57,440
Speaker 2: He's intential, he's making a he's making a perspective on

662
00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:00,759
Speaker 2: a segment of economy and its utility relative other things. Right.

663
00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:05,440
Speaker 2: And so it's not to say that bitcoin's not gonna obsolete,

664
00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:08,240
Speaker 2: att is not gonna obsolute the need to have people

665
00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:11,440
Speaker 2: out in West Texas drill and oil right, producing power.

666
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:14,960
Speaker 2: It's just that the things that people are owning in

667
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:18,440
Speaker 2: a passive way, and it's hard to put your finger

668
00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:20,960
Speaker 2: on exactly what that is, right, what's productive and what's

669
00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:24,560
Speaker 2: unproductive or what's active versus what's passive. Like somebody might

670
00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:27,200
Speaker 2: be a real estate developer, and if you take a

671
00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:30,520
Speaker 2: bunch of raw materials and put it together into a

672
00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:35,960
Speaker 2: productive asset, you've just created value. If you know, you

673
00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:40,040
Speaker 2: are somebody that is looking at the S and P.

674
00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:42,799
Speaker 2: Five hundred and just saying like, well, I know that

675
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:46,440
Speaker 2: my money declines by four percent, and so therefore I'm

676
00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:48,799
Speaker 2: gonna take all of my savings and put it in

677
00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:50,359
Speaker 2: the S and P. Five hundred because it's a better

678
00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:53,080
Speaker 2: savings vehicle. Like you're gonna you're gonna change that behavior.

679
00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:55,799
Speaker 2: So while it's difficult to put your finger on exactly

680
00:35:55,840 --> 00:36:00,279
Speaker 2: what the malinvestment is, I like to say, you know

681
00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:02,520
Speaker 2: what when you see it, sure, and most people in

682
00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:08,919
Speaker 2: their own lives will figure out what their intentional. I'm

683
00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:11,880
Speaker 2: investing in this because I think that, you know, this

684
00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:13,719
Speaker 2: really needs to exist in the world, and it's going

685
00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:15,879
Speaker 2: to deliver a lot of value to a lot of people,

686
00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:19,879
Speaker 2: which is going to generate me a return that's very

687
00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:23,120
Speaker 2: different than yeah, I know my money's inflating away, so

688
00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:25,359
Speaker 2: I'm not going to hold cash cash trash.

689
00:36:25,239 --> 00:36:29,080
Speaker 1: Right, you said before we started recording, I was talking

690
00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:32,000
Speaker 1: about real estate and bitcoin and saying how we could

691
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:35,400
Speaker 1: buy buy real estate and then use tax advantages and

692
00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:37,480
Speaker 1: debt and then we end up with more money we

693
00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:39,839
Speaker 1: could buy more bitcoin with it. And you were saying, well,

694
00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:42,560
Speaker 1: that assumes that we still have a functioning credit market

695
00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:44,919
Speaker 1: and we can still get loans for bitcoin. I'm sorry

696
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:47,759
Speaker 1: for real estate and things like that. So as part

697
00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:50,520
Speaker 1: of this transition, and you envision, I mean, I guess

698
00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:52,239
Speaker 1: if the dollar is declining, then you don't have the

699
00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:55,280
Speaker 1: dollar debt based system to get loans on either.

700
00:36:55,520 --> 00:37:01,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, or it becomes more apparent that capos for and

701
00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:02,000
Speaker 2: that as at.

702
00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:04,520
Speaker 1: My ste has a much higher cost of capital. Yeah.

703
00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:09,279
Speaker 2: And that the way that I look at it is

704
00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:12,040
Speaker 2: that the way the way that we're going to transition.

705
00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:15,960
Speaker 2: There's still going to be credit markets, but it's gonna

706
00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:19,160
Speaker 2: flip where it's gonna say you want to you want

707
00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:22,080
Speaker 2: to buy that building to do some activity to generate

708
00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:24,719
Speaker 2: a return, someone's gonna be letting bitcoin on it. You know.

709
00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:27,120
Speaker 2: Then I know I view that world when bitcoin's more stable,

710
00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:29,760
Speaker 2: when we have this you know, kind of global adoption

711
00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:31,960
Speaker 2: event that happens more rapidly than that.

712
00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:34,200
Speaker 1: Ship is that still in this eight to ten year timeframe.

713
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:36,320
Speaker 2: I mean, I would think that it was. There's probably

714
00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:39,360
Speaker 2: some sometime beyond that, Like we kind of the world

715
00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:43,640
Speaker 2: rapidly shifts to bitcoin when it becomes apparent that it's one,

716
00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:47,640
Speaker 2: you know, and then from there, I think capital markets

717
00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:52,320
Speaker 2: start to reform on top of a bitcoin standard. Often

718
00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:55,600
Speaker 2: some people think that like debt is inconsistent with bitcoin.

719
00:37:55,640 --> 00:37:58,040
Speaker 2: I don't think so. There was debt on a goal

720
00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:02,880
Speaker 2: money standard. It's just a it's a way to allocate capital.

721
00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:05,000
Speaker 2: I think that what exists today is that the credit

722
00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:12,799
Speaker 2: system is multiples. Well right now, it used to be

723
00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:14,560
Speaker 2: an order of magnitude. As they've printed money to de

724
00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:18,240
Speaker 2: leverage the system, it's the creditism is no longer orders

725
00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:21,960
Speaker 2: of orders of magnitude, but it is multiples. The credit

726
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:25,040
Speaker 2: system is multiples of the base money supply. My view,

727
00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:29,040
Speaker 2: it will be a fraction. There will be some percentage

728
00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:32,120
Speaker 2: there will only be twenty one million bitcoin, and some

729
00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:35,000
Speaker 2: percentage of them are going to be lent out to

730
00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:40,560
Speaker 2: help produce productive assets. And so I think that yes,

731
00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:44,640
Speaker 2: like as as we move forward, the ability you know,

732
00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:48,400
Speaker 2: with interest rates being high, it's it's the cost of money,

733
00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:51,400
Speaker 2: right and and your cost of money is always some

734
00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:55,319
Speaker 2: other other asset that might store value better. And so

735
00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:59,759
Speaker 2: like when we see things like Silicon Value Bank evaporate

736
00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:05,880
Speaker 2: over night and First Republic, those systems, those systemic issues

737
00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:08,760
Speaker 2: in the banking system exists, Like did those banks actually

738
00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:09,560
Speaker 2: have money to lend?

739
00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:11,040
Speaker 1: Of course not.

740
00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:16,840
Speaker 2: And so as that as a currency system fractures, the

741
00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:20,719
Speaker 2: credit system fractures too, you know. Like I was listening

742
00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:24,520
Speaker 2: to a podcast last night with Marty and a guy

743
00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:28,200
Speaker 2: from Coloradocraft Beef, and he was talking about just how

744
00:39:28,239 --> 00:39:30,400
Speaker 2: hard it is now to get credit, you know, to

745
00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:34,600
Speaker 2: go do something productive. So there are certainly going to

746
00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:37,720
Speaker 2: be pockets. Right, if you are a very wealthy individual

747
00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:40,080
Speaker 2: and you have all these assets, you still probably will

748
00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:42,640
Speaker 2: be able to borrow against those assets to get some

749
00:39:42,719 --> 00:39:46,040
Speaker 2: dollars to then convert them into bitcoin and benefit from that.

750
00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:49,760
Speaker 2: But as a system as a whole, that does not exist,

751
00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:53,640
Speaker 2: or I don't think will be attainable by or it

752
00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:56,920
Speaker 2: will be attainable by few and fewer people as the

753
00:39:56,960 --> 00:40:00,319
Speaker 2: currency system structures, because the currency system is dependent on

754
00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:03,440
Speaker 2: its credit system, which is the that is really the

755
00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:04,960
Speaker 2: thing that's in the process of collapsing.

756
00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:12,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, I have a couple questions on this one you

757
00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:14,880
Speaker 1: talked about in one of your old papers. I forget

758
00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:17,399
Speaker 1: which one, I've read so many of them. But it's

759
00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:20,480
Speaker 1: the same argument that my friend Brent Johnson Santego Capital

760
00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:24,760
Speaker 1: makes mister Dollar Milkshake. Is that all of those dollars

761
00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:28,680
Speaker 1: in circulation have massive demand because of the dollar denominated

762
00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:33,120
Speaker 1: debt that's on them. So we have only eight trillion dollars,

763
00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:35,799
Speaker 1: but we have eighty trillion dollars of US dollar denominated

764
00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:39,000
Speaker 1: debt that has to be extinguished or paid back. So

765
00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:41,120
Speaker 1: there's massive demand. I think you made that case in

766
00:40:41,160 --> 00:40:42,799
Speaker 1: one of your articles in the past, right, that's the.

767
00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:45,919
Speaker 2: Case, and a lot of that is in the book too.

768
00:40:46,120 --> 00:40:49,239
Speaker 1: Right. So to the point that you're making in this

769
00:40:49,320 --> 00:40:54,440
Speaker 1: eight year, ten year, twelve year transition, I mean, I

770
00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:57,000
Speaker 1: mean that debt either has to get extinguished by being

771
00:40:57,040 --> 00:41:00,480
Speaker 1: paid back or defaulted upon. I mean, there's mass demand

772
00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:02,279
Speaker 1: for these dollars. How do they just disappear like that?

773
00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:06,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I don't view them as disappearing. I'll tell

774
00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:08,279
Speaker 2: you how I see the process playing out, and I'll

775
00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:10,719
Speaker 2: talk to you about how I think bitcoin plays into it.

776
00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:14,560
Speaker 2: So in I think I talk about this in a

777
00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:17,759
Speaker 2: number of the chapters of the book, but you know

778
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:22,800
Speaker 2: the nature of the dollar credit system, how that credit

779
00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:26,359
Speaker 2: system actually is what is allowing the dollar to not

780
00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:30,360
Speaker 2: immediately collapse, because that is actually what tether's the dollar

781
00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:31,600
Speaker 2: to real value.

782
00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:34,320
Speaker 1: Because there's always more demand every time the dollars created.

783
00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:36,040
Speaker 2: And if you want to keep your car and you've

784
00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:38,040
Speaker 2: got a massive loan, you've got to work for dollars.

785
00:41:38,040 --> 00:41:41,040
Speaker 2: You're creating demand, and the whole world has to yeah,

786
00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:43,960
Speaker 2: because the world is still short dollars, but the world's

787
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:47,040
Speaker 2: getting less short dollars as they're printing money. So the

788
00:41:47,080 --> 00:41:49,400
Speaker 2: way that I see this playing out, and there's a

789
00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:52,239
Speaker 2: chapter in the book called Bitcoin is the Great Definancialization.

790
00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:55,320
Speaker 2: And so the way I view this kind of in aggregate,

791
00:41:55,719 --> 00:41:58,719
Speaker 2: you know, kind of thinking about it holistically, it's that

792
00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:02,359
Speaker 2: the the debasement of the money is what created this

793
00:42:02,440 --> 00:42:06,600
Speaker 2: hyper financialized world of people passively you know, investing in

794
00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:08,960
Speaker 2: the stocks, you know people, you know, the fact that

795
00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:12,239
Speaker 2: there could be sovereign debt that at one point in

796
00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:15,040
Speaker 2: time there was seventeen trillion of negative yielding.

797
00:42:14,719 --> 00:42:17,560
Speaker 1: Debt, right crazy, I'm going to pay.

798
00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:20,839
Speaker 2: You to lend you money. Basically like those things will

799
00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:22,439
Speaker 2: go away. But when you think about the.

800
00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:28,480
Speaker 1: Which Japan finally stopped having negative yilding debt right, yes,

801
00:42:28,520 --> 00:42:29,480
Speaker 1: this week, I think.

802
00:42:29,560 --> 00:42:34,240
Speaker 2: And and you know, I think the fundamental that's forcing

803
00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:38,279
Speaker 2: that is there's an off ramp now, you know, like

804
00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:40,600
Speaker 2: when when they were when they I don't know if

805
00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:44,480
Speaker 2: you remember this, but when when the ECB put a

806
00:42:44,520 --> 00:42:47,640
Speaker 2: negative interest rate on their reserves, there was a discussion

807
00:42:47,680 --> 00:42:49,880
Speaker 2: amongst the banks about like, hey, let's just take the

808
00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:53,080
Speaker 2: cash and put it involves, right, And then they're like,

809
00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:55,320
Speaker 2: if you want to do that, then you're cut off

810
00:42:55,520 --> 00:42:59,120
Speaker 2: from our clearing functions of the ECB, so they couldn't

811
00:42:59,160 --> 00:43:03,800
Speaker 2: really do it. You can convert one hundred million dollars

812
00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:05,799
Speaker 2: in the bitcoin and not have a negative interest rate

813
00:43:06,120 --> 00:43:07,440
Speaker 2: in terms of how you secure it.

814
00:43:07,640 --> 00:43:09,200
Speaker 1: What you could do into gold too, but it's actually

815
00:43:09,239 --> 00:43:10,919
Speaker 1: not that easy to get one hundred million dollars with gold.

816
00:43:11,120 --> 00:43:15,440
Speaker 2: Right. But yeah, But my point being, so the way

817
00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:20,439
Speaker 2: this cycle plays out is that as people figure out

818
00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:23,920
Speaker 2: that bitcoin's a better form of money, they begin to

819
00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:27,640
Speaker 2: convert their assets. I'm not you know what s and

820
00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:33,040
Speaker 2: P five hundred. It is massively underperformed bitcoin, and I'm

821
00:43:33,080 --> 00:43:34,600
Speaker 2: going to sell some of my s and P five

822
00:43:34,680 --> 00:43:36,800
Speaker 2: hundred ETF and I'm gonna buy bitcoin or buy the

823
00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:41,359
Speaker 2: bitcoin ETF, that asset value starts to come down. Well,

824
00:43:41,400 --> 00:43:45,520
Speaker 2: the asset values need to support existing debt levels. So

825
00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:49,719
Speaker 2: as more people figure out that they should sell their

826
00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:55,600
Speaker 2: passive assets to buy bitcoin as a passive asset store

827
00:43:55,680 --> 00:43:59,000
Speaker 2: value in money rather than a risk taking endeavor, pressure's

828
00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:02,400
Speaker 2: asset values, which pressure's debt. You can't sustain it. So

829
00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:09,240
Speaker 2: then as those asset prices get impaired, then the credit

830
00:44:09,280 --> 00:44:15,080
Speaker 2: complex gets impaired. That actually accelerates the need to do

831
00:44:15,160 --> 00:44:18,040
Speaker 2: more QE. So as that, you know, I think the

832
00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:20,800
Speaker 2: current estimate of the total credit system in the US,

833
00:44:20,840 --> 00:44:24,319
Speaker 2: not talking about money supply, but credit system, it's somewhere

834
00:44:24,360 --> 00:44:28,920
Speaker 2: like ninety eight trillion, so eight trillion dollars of base money,

835
00:44:29,080 --> 00:44:33,400
Speaker 2: twenty to twenty five trillion of you know, deposits ninety

836
00:44:33,440 --> 00:44:36,040
Speaker 2: eight trillion of credit instruments. But I think about it

837
00:44:36,040 --> 00:44:39,280
Speaker 2: as like only debt, only dollar reserves can pay dollar debt,

838
00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:45,120
Speaker 2: so ninety eight to eight. Well, as people start selling

839
00:44:45,160 --> 00:44:48,400
Speaker 2: assets and it appairs the ability to expand the ninety

840
00:44:48,440 --> 00:44:52,680
Speaker 2: eight the credit system is so leveraged as soon as

841
00:44:52,719 --> 00:44:55,960
Speaker 2: it starts to contract or really even have slow growth,

842
00:44:56,000 --> 00:44:59,839
Speaker 2: it starts to feed on itself. It becomes this waterfall effect.

843
00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:01,320
Speaker 1: As I say, getting forty cents of growth for a

844
00:45:01,360 --> 00:45:03,399
Speaker 1: dollar and it goes to twenty ten and then yeah zero.

845
00:45:03,719 --> 00:45:10,279
Speaker 2: Yeah. That that credit contraction because it naturally due to

846
00:45:10,280 --> 00:45:14,840
Speaker 2: the degree of leverage, doesn't just you can gradually grow

847
00:45:14,880 --> 00:45:18,399
Speaker 2: a credit system, but once because it's so leveraged, once

848
00:45:18,440 --> 00:45:21,879
Speaker 2: it starts to contract, it goes fast because it's one

849
00:45:21,920 --> 00:45:27,239
Speaker 2: default literally caused for the next one. Yes, that induces

850
00:45:27,600 --> 00:45:31,839
Speaker 2: an acceleration of quantitative vision that because they can't have

851
00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:34,359
Speaker 2: that happen, they can't have the credit system collapse. That's that,

852
00:45:34,719 --> 00:45:38,560
Speaker 2: It's what it's what coordinates.

853
00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:39,319
Speaker 1: The entire system. Yes, yeah, so.

854
00:45:39,239 --> 00:45:41,160
Speaker 2: They have to print more money and then that resets

855
00:45:41,160 --> 00:45:43,400
Speaker 2: off the loop. Oh wait, I've heard that. I was

856
00:45:43,400 --> 00:45:44,719
Speaker 2: supposed to by this big one because they were going

857
00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:46,759
Speaker 2: to print money. Now they had to print money. So

858
00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:50,480
Speaker 2: they print money to try to inflate the credit system

859
00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:52,920
Speaker 2: or the asset values backup to be able to support credit.

860
00:45:53,120 --> 00:45:58,279
Speaker 2: But that didn't just retriggers the process. So it kind

861
00:45:58,280 --> 00:46:01,760
Speaker 2: of is this loop of of definition of selling financial

862
00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:03,960
Speaker 2: asses but then they print more money, and through that

863
00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:08,480
Speaker 2: the amount of dollars to debt actually declines because money

864
00:46:08,520 --> 00:46:14,319
Speaker 2: is becoming more abundant. And that's that's why the you know,

865
00:46:14,840 --> 00:46:20,680
Speaker 2: as that happens, then people will figure out more mass

866
00:46:20,719 --> 00:46:23,240
Speaker 2: because the dollar won't be able to be as tethered

867
00:46:23,280 --> 00:46:24,600
Speaker 2: to real goods and services.

868
00:46:24,840 --> 00:46:28,600
Speaker 1: But dollars are only introduced into the system through debt issuance.

869
00:46:28,840 --> 00:46:29,560
Speaker 2: That's not true.

870
00:46:29,840 --> 00:46:32,560
Speaker 1: It's not well, I guess the fiscal the fiscal system.

871
00:46:33,800 --> 00:46:38,239
Speaker 2: Through the FED. If the FED didn't introduce more base

872
00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:41,839
Speaker 2: money by clicking about a button at the New York

873
00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:45,920
Speaker 2: Fed to say, hey, JP Morgan, all take a trillion

874
00:46:45,960 --> 00:46:47,520
Speaker 2: dollars of your treasuries and.

875
00:46:47,760 --> 00:46:49,959
Speaker 1: Yeah, but JP Morgan has to loan that money out.

876
00:46:50,280 --> 00:46:52,120
Speaker 1: What's that they have to loan the money? Then JP

877
00:46:52,200 --> 00:46:53,440
Speaker 1: Morgan has the base reserve.

878
00:46:53,520 --> 00:46:55,640
Speaker 2: But they have the base reserve. They now have more reserves.

879
00:46:55,680 --> 00:46:58,480
Speaker 1: But we've seen many times in the history where they

880
00:46:58,520 --> 00:47:00,440
Speaker 1: have more base reserve, they don't want to loan money.

881
00:47:00,760 --> 00:47:03,400
Speaker 2: But my point is that if the FED didn't create

882
00:47:03,680 --> 00:47:05,719
Speaker 2: more base reserves, the credit system.

883
00:47:05,400 --> 00:47:06,960
Speaker 1: Would change the reserve requirement.

884
00:47:07,719 --> 00:47:09,200
Speaker 2: But you know, I'm saying the actual amount of debt

885
00:47:09,200 --> 00:47:12,279
Speaker 2: would shrink. They can't have that because the whole system

886
00:47:12,320 --> 00:47:15,640
Speaker 2: would collapse. So my point is, and I have a

887
00:47:15,640 --> 00:47:19,719
Speaker 2: different perspective about this, many people would disagree. My view

888
00:47:19,719 --> 00:47:22,279
Speaker 2: of it is the only way that more money is

889
00:47:22,320 --> 00:47:26,360
Speaker 2: created is by the Federal Reserve, and if not for

890
00:47:26,440 --> 00:47:32,760
Speaker 2: that function, then credit couldn't expand ad infinitem. The only

891
00:47:32,800 --> 00:47:35,520
Speaker 2: thing that allows the credit system to continue to expand

892
00:47:35,960 --> 00:47:39,680
Speaker 2: is that the Fed went from in two thousand and

893
00:47:39,840 --> 00:47:42,520
Speaker 2: nine eight or two thousand and eight, there was only

894
00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:46,680
Speaker 2: nine hundred billion dollars in total. That has now gone

895
00:47:46,719 --> 00:47:50,200
Speaker 2: to eight trillion. Why if that hadn't gone to eight trillion,

896
00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:55,000
Speaker 2: the credit system would have collapsed. At the time of

897
00:47:55,280 --> 00:47:57,640
Speaker 2: the financial crisis, when there was only nine hundred billion

898
00:47:57,719 --> 00:48:01,920
Speaker 2: dollars in existence, the debt system was fifty two trillion.

899
00:48:02,280 --> 00:48:04,640
Speaker 2: If they hadn't printed all that, or not really printed

900
00:48:04,680 --> 00:48:07,680
Speaker 2: digitally created the new money and exchange them for credit,

901
00:48:09,040 --> 00:48:11,600
Speaker 2: that fifty two trillion would have gone to forty to thirty.

902
00:48:11,600 --> 00:48:14,080
Speaker 2: It was just it would have just kept going. Yeah,

903
00:48:14,160 --> 00:48:17,000
Speaker 2: And so my point is that money isn't actually created

904
00:48:17,040 --> 00:48:19,840
Speaker 2: through the expansion of credit. Money is created by the

905
00:48:19,880 --> 00:48:23,280
Speaker 2: Federal Reserve. That money that the Federal Reserve creates allows

906
00:48:23,280 --> 00:48:26,640
Speaker 2: for the expansion of credit. It's what allows for debt

907
00:48:26,719 --> 00:48:30,680
Speaker 2: to not be written off. It allows for asset values

908
00:48:30,719 --> 00:48:34,480
Speaker 2: to reflate in dollar terms, which allows for existing debt

909
00:48:34,560 --> 00:48:36,280
Speaker 2: levels to be sustained and then to grow.

910
00:48:37,120 --> 00:48:39,520
Speaker 1: It's a little bit of semantics, because I don't think

911
00:48:40,320 --> 00:48:42,760
Speaker 1: you don't think it is the semantics, because the Federal

912
00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:45,560
Speaker 1: reserve allows for the money to be created through debt

913
00:48:45,560 --> 00:48:47,560
Speaker 1: expansion by giving the bank war reserves or changing the

914
00:48:47,560 --> 00:48:48,280
Speaker 1: reserve requirements.

915
00:48:48,520 --> 00:48:50,400
Speaker 2: Way, that's the increase of the base money. And if

916
00:48:50,400 --> 00:48:51,680
Speaker 2: they didn't do that, My point.

917
00:48:51,480 --> 00:48:55,320
Speaker 1: Is, but the Fed could hypothetically and actually not hypothetically,

918
00:48:55,360 --> 00:48:57,320
Speaker 1: we've seen it. They've increased the base money, they've increased

919
00:48:57,360 --> 00:48:58,920
Speaker 1: the reserves at the banks, but the banks still don't

920
00:48:58,960 --> 00:48:59,680
Speaker 1: issue in loans.

921
00:49:00,320 --> 00:49:03,719
Speaker 2: But but the credit system has gone from fifty two

922
00:49:03,800 --> 00:49:07,360
Speaker 2: trillion to twenty seven sure over time to ninety eight trillion.

923
00:49:07,719 --> 00:49:10,360
Speaker 2: So the introduction, so there's this like misnumber. They're not

924
00:49:10,440 --> 00:49:13,279
Speaker 2: lending out the reserves, well, he know who's borrowing. You know,

925
00:49:13,320 --> 00:49:16,799
Speaker 2: they're lending to the federal government. You know, when the

926
00:49:16,800 --> 00:49:19,759
Speaker 2: federal government has a two trillion dollar deficit, which the

927
00:49:19,800 --> 00:49:21,640
Speaker 2: banks are lending to the federal government.

928
00:49:22,360 --> 00:49:24,040
Speaker 1: They're buying. The treasury is given them money in the

929
00:49:24,120 --> 00:49:26,200
Speaker 1: government which they're spending seven point three trillions.

930
00:49:27,080 --> 00:49:32,000
Speaker 2: Eight trillion of base money has resulted in fifty trillion

931
00:49:32,239 --> 00:49:33,480
Speaker 2: of more credit.

932
00:49:33,600 --> 00:49:35,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, you're right, that's good.

933
00:49:35,440 --> 00:49:38,239
Speaker 2: My point is that if that eight trillion hadn't been introduced,

934
00:49:39,160 --> 00:49:42,000
Speaker 2: that fifty trillion of expansion couldn't have happened. Not only

935
00:49:42,000 --> 00:49:43,960
Speaker 2: would it have if they hadn't put the money in

936
00:49:44,719 --> 00:49:49,160
Speaker 2: by definition that fifty two trillion that existed at the

937
00:49:49,160 --> 00:49:52,080
Speaker 2: financial crisis that was this over ever system, it would

938
00:49:52,120 --> 00:49:55,040
Speaker 2: have cratered. It would have gone fifty trillion to forty

939
00:49:55,080 --> 00:49:59,560
Speaker 2: trillion to thirty because only dollar reserves can be used

940
00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:01,880
Speaker 2: to pay credit. And what would have happened if they

941
00:50:01,880 --> 00:50:04,200
Speaker 2: hadn't done that is that every bank would have been

942
00:50:04,239 --> 00:50:06,520
Speaker 2: out of business. And then what do you have You

943
00:50:06,520 --> 00:50:09,279
Speaker 2: have to actually restructure debt. And so that's where I

944
00:50:09,320 --> 00:50:12,280
Speaker 2: see where bitcoin comes in. Ultimately, what's going to happen

945
00:50:12,840 --> 00:50:16,319
Speaker 2: is that people who have bitcoin are going to be

946
00:50:16,440 --> 00:50:19,840
Speaker 2: the ones that restructure the world. They're going to be

947
00:50:19,840 --> 00:50:22,960
Speaker 2: the ones that say, okay, which what which of these

948
00:50:23,000 --> 00:50:26,720
Speaker 2: businesses is worth saving? They have all this debt stacked

949
00:50:26,760 --> 00:50:29,520
Speaker 2: against them. What assets do I want to.

950
00:50:29,480 --> 00:50:34,960
Speaker 1: Own because it have money, and then they'll buy They're

951
00:50:34,960 --> 00:50:36,239
Speaker 1: going to go to the bank and they're going to say, hey,

952
00:50:36,280 --> 00:50:39,919
Speaker 1: i'll take that note on that oil well, and I'll

953
00:50:39,960 --> 00:50:43,280
Speaker 1: give you, you know, a bitcoin for those ten wells

954
00:50:43,400 --> 00:50:46,240
Speaker 1: or something, because I think that those assets can generate

955
00:50:46,239 --> 00:50:47,000
Speaker 1: me more bitcoin.

956
00:50:48,080 --> 00:50:52,560
Speaker 2: And so that as the dollar credit system comes unwound,

957
00:50:53,200 --> 00:50:55,920
Speaker 2: that there's going to need to be a massive restructuring.

958
00:50:55,960 --> 00:50:58,000
Speaker 2: Like when I say restructuring, like you know, when a

959
00:50:58,000 --> 00:51:01,319
Speaker 2: business files for bankruptcy, they actually to restructure their balance sheet,

960
00:51:01,440 --> 00:51:04,000
Speaker 2: reorganize the company, maybe get up rid of old management.

961
00:51:04,320 --> 00:51:08,080
Speaker 2: But they also have to recapitalize those businesses that they

962
00:51:08,080 --> 00:51:10,680
Speaker 2: think still need to exist. It's just you're going to

963
00:51:10,760 --> 00:51:14,120
Speaker 2: have to recapitalize it with money that's actually functional and working.

964
00:51:14,320 --> 00:51:18,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, we agree on all this. Some of the timing

965
00:51:18,360 --> 00:51:21,759
Speaker 1: a little bit off. You know. I think my view

966
00:51:21,800 --> 00:51:23,960
Speaker 1: has been and we're going into a crash up and

967
00:51:23,960 --> 00:51:25,920
Speaker 1: not a crash and I think everybody's been waiting on it,

968
00:51:26,000 --> 00:51:30,000
Speaker 1: and crash up in what sense, well, in a hyperinflationary sense, right,

969
00:51:30,840 --> 00:51:33,239
Speaker 1: everyone was waiting for home prices to create, but home

970
00:51:33,280 --> 00:51:36,120
Speaker 1: prices are going up faster and faster and faster. Everybody

971
00:51:36,160 --> 00:51:38,359
Speaker 1: was waiting for the price a bitcoing to crash, but

972
00:51:38,360 --> 00:51:40,239
Speaker 1: it coins going up faster and faster and faster. So

973
00:51:40,320 --> 00:51:43,040
Speaker 1: hyperinflationary crash up is what I mean, which is what

974
00:51:43,080 --> 00:51:46,480
Speaker 1: you're calling for hyperinflation as well, So sort of agreeing

975
00:51:46,480 --> 00:51:47,440
Speaker 1: on that terms.

976
00:51:47,320 --> 00:51:49,440
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, we yeah, maybe I agree. I would just

977
00:51:49,480 --> 00:51:52,520
Speaker 2: say that eventually a city standard of living is going

978
00:51:52,560 --> 00:51:54,400
Speaker 2: down for a large swath of pocast.

979
00:51:54,440 --> 00:51:56,320
Speaker 1: No, it is. And this is what I try to

980
00:51:56,320 --> 00:51:58,160
Speaker 1: make clear on a bunch of my videos where I say,

981
00:51:58,239 --> 00:52:01,080
Speaker 1: if you think of what is a crash mean, or

982
00:52:01,080 --> 00:52:03,200
Speaker 1: I should say, what is the end result of a crash?

983
00:52:03,360 --> 00:52:04,799
Speaker 1: So typically in the two thousand and eight or two

984
00:52:04,840 --> 00:52:07,800
Speaker 1: thousand crash, my standard of living went down. I lost

985
00:52:07,840 --> 00:52:09,720
Speaker 1: my job, I took a lower paid job, my business

986
00:52:09,719 --> 00:52:11,759
Speaker 1: doesn't do as good. My income went down, so my

987
00:52:11,800 --> 00:52:13,680
Speaker 1: standard of living went down. I can't afford as many

988
00:52:13,760 --> 00:52:15,640
Speaker 1: vacations or what not to eat as much. So when

989
00:52:15,680 --> 00:52:18,200
Speaker 1: a crash, my standard liv went down, but my standard

990
00:52:18,200 --> 00:52:20,680
Speaker 1: living can go down also if things crash up because

991
00:52:20,719 --> 00:52:22,920
Speaker 1: things went up so fast, I also can't afford as

992
00:52:23,000 --> 00:52:25,080
Speaker 1: much as I used to do. So the end result

993
00:52:25,120 --> 00:52:28,160
Speaker 1: of my standard living going down is the same regardless

994
00:52:28,200 --> 00:52:32,360
Speaker 1: of prices crash or crash up. The difference is a

995
00:52:32,360 --> 00:52:34,080
Speaker 1: crash up I think is a lot worse because at

996
00:52:34,120 --> 00:52:36,000
Speaker 1: least when they go down there's a reset, and maybe

997
00:52:36,000 --> 00:52:37,960
Speaker 1: millennials can buy a house. But when they crash up,

998
00:52:38,000 --> 00:52:42,319
Speaker 1: there's never a chance to get in. I think it's worse. Yeah,

999
00:52:42,719 --> 00:52:44,839
Speaker 1: So the end result being that our standard of living

1000
00:52:44,880 --> 00:52:49,360
Speaker 1: goes down. Now, if we utilize debt and inflation better,

1001
00:52:49,480 --> 00:52:51,480
Speaker 1: some people can get ahead during this period of time.

1002
00:52:51,760 --> 00:52:54,279
Speaker 1: So if you look at periods of textbook examples of

1003
00:52:54,360 --> 00:52:58,960
Speaker 1: hyperinflation hym I Republic Germany, you know, classic example. You

1004
00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:01,360
Speaker 1: see the why am I the German marked a gold

1005
00:53:01,480 --> 00:53:03,120
Speaker 1: you know, over a ninet year period go through like

1006
00:53:03,120 --> 00:53:06,200
Speaker 1: a hockey stick. I'm sure you're familiar with the case

1007
00:53:06,200 --> 00:53:09,600
Speaker 1: of Hugosteines, who became the richest man in Germany. Are

1008
00:53:09,600 --> 00:53:14,440
Speaker 1: you familiar with it? So he basically realized what was

1009
00:53:14,480 --> 00:53:19,120
Speaker 1: going on, and he borrowed as much German marks as

1010
00:53:19,160 --> 00:53:22,279
Speaker 1: he could, and he turned that into railroads and factories

1011
00:53:22,440 --> 00:53:26,480
Speaker 1: and real productive assets. And when the currency ultimately crashed,

1012
00:53:26,480 --> 00:53:29,360
Speaker 1: he became the richest man in Germany. Not too different

1013
00:53:29,400 --> 00:53:31,760
Speaker 1: than what Michael Saylor is doing today, the speculative attack

1014
00:53:32,160 --> 00:53:35,520
Speaker 1: borrowing in the failing currency buying a stronger asset. So

1015
00:53:35,800 --> 00:53:39,400
Speaker 1: my question for you then is, I guess do you

1016
00:53:39,440 --> 00:53:41,719
Speaker 1: think that's the playbook for navigating this type of a

1017
00:53:41,760 --> 00:53:44,879
Speaker 1: cycle A specultive attack? Is Michael sailor did Hugosteenes play

1018
00:53:44,920 --> 00:53:46,960
Speaker 1: it right? Is Michael Saylor planet right? Do you borrow

1019
00:53:47,040 --> 00:53:51,399
Speaker 1: in a cheap failing currency to buy a more better

1020
00:53:51,400 --> 00:53:56,880
Speaker 1: appreciated asset. If you were very sophisticated, if you're Michael Saylor,

1021
00:53:57,200 --> 00:53:57,560
Speaker 1: If you're.

1022
00:53:57,480 --> 00:54:01,319
Speaker 2: Michael Saylor, or you're very or on the spectrum, you

1023
00:54:01,400 --> 00:54:05,920
Speaker 2: are similarly very financially sophisticated, and you know how to

1024
00:54:06,120 --> 00:54:10,359
Speaker 2: avoid massive time bombs because you know, and I don't

1025
00:54:10,719 --> 00:54:13,600
Speaker 2: have a full reading on everything that Michael Saylor is doing,

1026
00:54:13,640 --> 00:54:16,160
Speaker 2: but one of the things is doing is convertible debt. Right.

1027
00:54:16,760 --> 00:54:18,840
Speaker 2: One of the things about debt is it creates a

1028
00:54:18,880 --> 00:54:22,360
Speaker 2: time bomb, so that you know if you could continue

1029
00:54:22,400 --> 00:54:26,279
Speaker 2: to borrow and know that you could, like if you

1030
00:54:26,280 --> 00:54:29,920
Speaker 2: could lock in at two percent for thirty years, and

1031
00:54:29,960 --> 00:54:31,719
Speaker 2: that you know, that's a different thing than.

1032
00:54:32,520 --> 00:54:35,200
Speaker 1: I bought this at three percent for thirty years, right,

1033
00:54:35,239 --> 00:54:36,439
Speaker 1: it seems like a pretty good deal.

1034
00:54:36,560 --> 00:54:38,600
Speaker 2: Yeah. But if you were someone that was like, okay,

1035
00:54:38,840 --> 00:54:40,360
Speaker 2: someone's one let me, I'm.

1036
00:54:40,200 --> 00:54:43,000
Speaker 1: Going to charge my credit card eighteen percent to do Yeah.

1037
00:54:43,239 --> 00:54:45,600
Speaker 2: But if you're like someone's will let me you know money,

1038
00:54:45,600 --> 00:54:47,799
Speaker 2: it's ten percent for two years. I'm gonna go buy

1039
00:54:47,800 --> 00:54:51,440
Speaker 2: a bitcoin. Right, and now I have a clock running

1040
00:54:52,200 --> 00:54:56,040
Speaker 2: that you could get real backwards. So what I'm saying

1041
00:54:56,160 --> 00:54:59,080
Speaker 2: is there's a scenario that that can can be a

1042
00:54:59,120 --> 00:55:05,680
Speaker 2: winning strategy for people that know how to protect against

1043
00:55:05,920 --> 00:55:10,600
Speaker 2: the really downside and cataclysmic outcomes. And just to know

1044
00:55:11,040 --> 00:55:15,400
Speaker 2: where you are on that spectrum. Because I'm personally someone

1045
00:55:15,480 --> 00:55:18,640
Speaker 2: and like most people say, I'm insane. I don't have

1046
00:55:18,760 --> 00:55:20,960
Speaker 2: I don't have a scent of debt. Okay, I just

1047
00:55:20,960 --> 00:55:23,560
Speaker 2: don't like it. I don't I don't like owing another

1048
00:55:23,640 --> 00:55:26,840
Speaker 2: man money, you know, like I don't. I don't you

1049
00:55:26,880 --> 00:55:29,799
Speaker 2: know that it's just psychologist is a great book. It's

1050
00:55:29,840 --> 00:55:32,680
Speaker 2: called The World in Debt, and it talks about the

1051
00:55:32,680 --> 00:55:35,239
Speaker 2: psychology and what it does to society. So I think

1052
00:55:35,280 --> 00:55:38,360
Speaker 2: that you can do that and you can improve your life.

1053
00:55:39,440 --> 00:55:42,920
Speaker 2: Can the aggregate if people do that, I don't think so.

1054
00:55:42,920 --> 00:55:46,439
Speaker 2: So I would recommend it for people that are highly

1055
00:55:46,520 --> 00:55:48,920
Speaker 2: sophisticated and know what they're doing, maybe more so than

1056
00:55:48,960 --> 00:55:51,400
Speaker 2: I do. But I would say for the average person,

1057
00:55:51,400 --> 00:55:54,040
Speaker 2: it's going to be very difficult, and it comes to pitfalls,

1058
00:55:54,200 --> 00:55:57,160
Speaker 2: and it's to stay stumbled, stay humble in sacss. You know,

1059
00:55:58,719 --> 00:56:01,400
Speaker 2: if you can just slowly, if if you're generating income

1060
00:56:01,719 --> 00:56:03,480
Speaker 2: and you can slowly put away for a rainy day,

1061
00:56:03,480 --> 00:56:04,920
Speaker 2: and you're doing it in a better form of money,

1062
00:56:05,160 --> 00:56:09,239
Speaker 2: then that's going to be incredibly free endeavor for you.

1063
00:56:09,600 --> 00:56:11,759
Speaker 2: Because all we're really trying to do is preserve value

1064
00:56:11,760 --> 00:56:12,640
Speaker 2: that we've already created.

1065
00:56:12,840 --> 00:56:16,000
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, and we're trying to increase the value that

1066
00:56:16,040 --> 00:56:18,000
Speaker 1: we have and we can push more value. Oh yeah no.

1067
00:56:18,280 --> 00:56:20,120
Speaker 2: But but part of that is, you know, it's not

1068
00:56:20,200 --> 00:56:22,200
Speaker 2: just sitting on a shiny object and looking at it

1069
00:56:22,200 --> 00:56:24,560
Speaker 2: and observing it. It's how do I put that to

1070
00:56:24,760 --> 00:56:29,400
Speaker 2: use in a way that literally allows me to accumulate capital. Yeah,

1071
00:56:29,440 --> 00:56:31,440
Speaker 2: so I think there's multiple ways to pursue it.

1072
00:56:31,560 --> 00:56:35,880
Speaker 1: The business which is actually helping productive assets businesses move

1073
00:56:36,040 --> 00:56:38,880
Speaker 1: into a bitcoin standard. So tell us about that again.

1074
00:56:38,800 --> 00:56:43,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, just quickly. So we're helping build a company that

1075
00:56:44,080 --> 00:56:47,200
Speaker 2: is designed to help businesses move to a bitcoin standard

1076
00:56:47,280 --> 00:56:51,440
Speaker 2: from the ability to accept it for payment. And really

1077
00:56:51,480 --> 00:56:53,439
Speaker 2: what I like to think about is if you don't

1078
00:56:53,520 --> 00:56:57,200
Speaker 2: understand why bitcoin stores value, and you don't understand, you

1079
00:56:57,239 --> 00:57:00,719
Speaker 2: probably shouldn't be thinking about your business accepting bitcoin is payment.

1080
00:57:00,719 --> 00:57:04,000
Speaker 2: Each probably by graduate and suddenly read a book start

1081
00:57:04,040 --> 00:57:08,799
Speaker 2: to ground yourself. But for people that already understand why

1082
00:57:08,840 --> 00:57:12,400
Speaker 2: bitcoin storage value, it becomes hyperlogical if you are a

1083
00:57:12,400 --> 00:57:17,480
Speaker 2: business owner to start to accept bitcoin as payment, you

1084
00:57:17,600 --> 00:57:19,800
Speaker 2: have to build the tools in order for businesses to

1085
00:57:19,880 --> 00:57:23,360
Speaker 2: accept them. And that's really what we're focused on through

1086
00:57:23,440 --> 00:57:26,320
Speaker 2: zapp right. Basically where our view of it is, in

1087
00:57:26,440 --> 00:57:29,120
Speaker 2: order for businesses to accept bitcoin's payment, they need the

1088
00:57:29,240 --> 00:57:32,480
Speaker 2: right tools and our world that means that they can

1089
00:57:32,520 --> 00:57:35,400
Speaker 2: easily accept theat side by side with bitcoin, and that

1090
00:57:35,480 --> 00:57:38,840
Speaker 2: if they've already become comfortable custing their bitcoin a certain way,

1091
00:57:39,440 --> 00:57:41,280
Speaker 2: they don't have to worry about us as a financial

1092
00:57:41,280 --> 00:57:43,480
Speaker 2: intermeanor we never touch their money. They basically bring their

1093
00:57:43,480 --> 00:57:46,880
Speaker 2: own walls. So bitcoin can be used as a medium

1094
00:57:46,920 --> 00:57:49,520
Speaker 2: of direct exchange. The people that are likely going to

1095
00:57:49,560 --> 00:57:53,479
Speaker 2: pursue that are people who already understand bitcoin, and as

1096
00:57:53,520 --> 00:57:57,240
Speaker 2: we're building this out, it also demonstrates the utility of

1097
00:57:57,320 --> 00:58:01,560
Speaker 2: bitcoin that it isn't just something that is something that's

1098
00:58:01,560 --> 00:58:04,200
Speaker 2: storing value. It's only storing value because it's easy to exchange.

1099
00:58:04,240 --> 00:58:07,480
Speaker 2: That's what that's what money is designed to do. Money

1100
00:58:07,520 --> 00:58:10,480
Speaker 2: is only a utility as a tool to facilitate trade.

1101
00:58:10,800 --> 00:58:12,800
Speaker 2: If it if it's not facilitating trade, then we're not

1102
00:58:12,840 --> 00:58:16,120
Speaker 2: accumulating capital. So we're really just trying to advance that

1103
00:58:16,200 --> 00:58:18,840
Speaker 2: side of bitcoin. I started working on it when when

1104
00:58:18,840 --> 00:58:23,720
Speaker 2: those banks failed last year, it it heightened the radar

1105
00:58:23,800 --> 00:58:26,400
Speaker 2: in my mind that said we need to act with

1106
00:58:26,480 --> 00:58:30,840
Speaker 2: greater urgency to create the rails of bitcoin in a

1107
00:58:30,840 --> 00:58:35,400
Speaker 2: way that it can actually facilitate commerce. And that when

1108
00:58:35,440 --> 00:58:37,320
Speaker 2: you think about it, if the currency is a risk.

1109
00:58:38,160 --> 00:58:40,840
Speaker 2: You know, oftentimes when the Silk and Valley Bank failed,

1110
00:58:42,080 --> 00:58:44,000
Speaker 2: a lot of companies, as they rightly should have, said

1111
00:58:44,560 --> 00:58:46,960
Speaker 2: that that bank to a Silk and Valley bank, How

1112
00:58:47,000 --> 00:58:50,560
Speaker 2: am I going to make payroll on Monday? Yeah, but

1113
00:58:51,080 --> 00:58:53,480
Speaker 2: that same bank is how they take in their revenue.

1114
00:58:54,120 --> 00:58:56,840
Speaker 2: So it's not just a choke point on their balance

1115
00:58:56,840 --> 00:59:00,360
Speaker 2: sheet and their savings. It cuts them off except money

1116
00:59:00,520 --> 00:59:03,560
Speaker 2: from access to accept money, and so we need better

1117
00:59:03,600 --> 00:59:07,200
Speaker 2: ways to custody Bitcoin worked on unchained for a long time.

1118
00:59:07,480 --> 00:59:11,160
Speaker 2: That really is a root of a story, hold of value.

1119
00:59:11,440 --> 00:59:14,880
Speaker 2: You can't be at risk of losing it. You've got

1120
00:59:14,880 --> 00:59:17,360
Speaker 2: to be able to safe keep it with a reliability

1121
00:59:17,440 --> 00:59:19,960
Speaker 2: that five years from now, ten years from now, fifteen

1122
00:59:20,040 --> 00:59:21,680
Speaker 2: years from now, your kids are going to have it.

1123
00:59:22,080 --> 00:59:24,360
Speaker 2: But the other side of it is I've got to

1124
00:59:24,360 --> 00:59:25,880
Speaker 2: be able to accept it. I've got to be able

1125
00:59:25,880 --> 00:59:29,320
Speaker 2: to accept in my business for the revenue side of

1126
00:59:29,320 --> 00:59:32,200
Speaker 2: my equation. And so really just advancing that and we

1127
00:59:32,280 --> 00:59:35,840
Speaker 2: really recommend it for anybody that already understands and rocks bitcoin,

1128
00:59:36,760 --> 00:59:40,920
Speaker 2: and encourage people that don't to start the journey by

1129
00:59:41,040 --> 00:59:43,440
Speaker 2: becoming educated first. But we're really building the platform for

1130
00:59:43,440 --> 00:59:46,080
Speaker 2: people who already understand bitcoin and understand the value of

1131
00:59:46,160 --> 00:59:49,280
Speaker 2: why having that redundant rail Like, if your currency is

1132
00:59:49,280 --> 00:59:51,480
Speaker 2: a risk, which it is, then the rails of that

1133
00:59:51,640 --> 00:59:55,280
Speaker 2: system are also a risk. It's the flow of funds,

1134
00:59:55,440 --> 00:59:57,400
Speaker 2: and on the other side of flow of funds is

1135
00:59:57,440 --> 00:59:58,680
Speaker 2: goods and services.

1136
00:59:59,280 --> 01:00:01,840
Speaker 1: I love it. I love it because we don't need

1137
01:00:01,880 --> 01:00:05,560
Speaker 1: a whole bunch of more ways to a new we

1138
01:00:05,640 --> 01:00:07,520
Speaker 1: do we need a lot more ideas of ways to

1139
01:00:07,640 --> 01:00:09,320
Speaker 1: use big one, but we need to come up with

1140
01:00:09,360 --> 01:00:12,000
Speaker 1: more ways we can bring bitcoin into the things that

1141
01:00:12,040 --> 01:00:14,720
Speaker 1: we do already every day. So bring it into your

1142
01:00:14,720 --> 01:00:17,440
Speaker 1: existing business to help offset some of the risk and

1143
01:00:17,560 --> 01:00:20,040
Speaker 1: stack some SATs along the ways. An amazing way to

1144
01:00:20,080 --> 01:00:20,360
Speaker 1: do it.

1145
01:00:20,520 --> 01:00:22,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, And really there's two ways to get SATs. You

1146
01:00:22,720 --> 01:00:26,160
Speaker 2: can convert your goods and services, or your rent on

1147
01:00:26,200 --> 01:00:29,680
Speaker 2: a building, or your fees for an air and airbnb

1148
01:00:29,800 --> 01:00:34,120
Speaker 2: into dollars and then take those dollars and incur the

1149
01:00:34,160 --> 01:00:36,560
Speaker 2: cost of the dollar system and get bitcoin if you

1150
01:00:36,600 --> 01:00:38,760
Speaker 2: want the bitcoin, or you could be set up in

1151
01:00:38,800 --> 01:00:41,439
Speaker 2: a way to say, hey, if people want to pay

1152
01:00:41,440 --> 01:00:44,280
Speaker 2: me directly, I can if I actually want the bitcoin.

1153
01:00:44,320 --> 01:00:47,000
Speaker 2: If someone's willing to pay me the bitcoin, then then

1154
01:00:47,040 --> 01:00:49,360
Speaker 2: you start to be able to understand very easily why

1155
01:00:49,400 --> 01:00:52,960
Speaker 2: an entirely different currency system is a costeh, you know.

1156
01:00:53,400 --> 01:00:56,440
Speaker 2: And so there's two ways. You either go through the

1157
01:00:56,440 --> 01:00:59,960
Speaker 2: fiat system to then get bitcoin at an exchange, or

1158
01:01:00,680 --> 01:01:03,080
Speaker 2: you go directly to your customers, so you.

1159
01:01:03,080 --> 01:01:05,600
Speaker 1: Get the on ramp in the off ram. Yeah, go

1160
01:01:05,600 --> 01:01:09,680
Speaker 1: go directly, yep, all right, Parker Lewis brand new book.

1161
01:01:09,680 --> 01:01:12,560
Speaker 1: Gradually then suddenly recommend you pick it up. I haven't

1162
01:01:12,600 --> 01:01:14,240
Speaker 1: read it yet, but I have read the papers and

1163
01:01:14,280 --> 01:01:16,560
Speaker 1: I can't wait to read the full book. Check out

1164
01:01:16,560 --> 01:01:18,840
Speaker 1: and Zap Wright, you should be accepting bitcoin in your business.

1165
01:01:18,880 --> 01:01:20,320
Speaker 1: I want to accept it in my Business're gonna talk

1166
01:01:20,360 --> 01:01:22,680
Speaker 1: about setting that up. And that's what we got. Check

1167
01:01:22,680 --> 01:01:23,160
Speaker 1: out Parker.

1168
01:01:23,680 --> 01:01:25,800
Speaker 2: One thing I would say is the book's available. I've

1169
01:01:25,800 --> 01:01:28,120
Speaker 2: bucked the trend. It's not on Amazon.

1170
01:01:28,320 --> 01:01:29,000
Speaker 1: Buck the trend.

1171
01:01:29,160 --> 01:01:31,400
Speaker 2: It's on safety and I'm used website the author of

1172
01:01:31,440 --> 01:01:35,560
Speaker 2: the Bitcoin centered So the Safehouse dot com is where.

1173
01:01:35,320 --> 01:01:38,560
Speaker 1: You can buy the book dot com. We'll link it

1174
01:01:38,600 --> 01:01:39,680
Speaker 1: in the show notes down below.

1175
01:01:40,480 --> 01:01:40,920
Speaker 2: Appreciate