Speaker 1: Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls podcast, a weekly
Speaker 1: conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small
Speaker 1: decisions we can make to become the best possible versions
Speaker 1: of ourselves. I'm your host, doctor Joy hard and Bradford,
Speaker 1: a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or
Speaker 1: to find a therapist in your area, visit our website
Speaker 1: at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. While I hope you
Speaker 1: love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is
Speaker 1: not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with
Speaker 1: a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much
Speaker 1: for joining me for session three ninety five of the
Speaker 1: Therapy for Black Girl podcasts. We'll get right into our
Speaker 1: conversation after a word from our sponsors.
Speaker 2: Hi. My name is Yolo Achille Robinson, and I am
Speaker 2: excited to be on Therapy for Black Girls, the podcast
Speaker 2: with doctor Joy Harden Bradford, talking about community care, navigating conflict, discernment,
Speaker 2: and much more.
Speaker 1: We're so honored to be nominated for the Outstanding Lifestyle
Speaker 1: and Self Help Podcast category at the fifty six annual
Speaker 1: NAACP Image Awards, but we cannot win without your support.
Speaker 1: Please take a second to go to vote dot Naacpimage
Speaker 1: Awards dot net and vote for Therapy for Black Girls.
Speaker 1: Twenty twenty five is already proving to be a year
Speaker 1: where community will be more important than ever, but many
Speaker 1: may still be wondering how do I find those I
Speaker 1: can trust and how do I maintain these relationships. Helping
Speaker 1: us to answer these questions is writer, activists and founder
Speaker 1: of Being the Black Emotional and Mental Health Collective Yolo Achilling.
Speaker 1: For over twenty years, Yolo has led and designed mental
Speaker 1: and emotional health workshops, experiences, support groups, and training. His
Speaker 1: expertise includes facilitating anger management and anti violence groups with
Speaker 1: black men and boys, HIV AIDS, case management, and peer counseling,
Speaker 1: training community members on CDC behavioral health interventions such as
Speaker 1: personalized cognitive counseling, teaching mental health literacy to black communities,
Speaker 1: leading yoga and embodiment experiences, and healing justice centered organizing.
Speaker 1: During our conversation, we unpack some of the many ways
Speaker 1: that we can approach mental health practices and principles as
Speaker 1: community members to better show up for one another and
Speaker 1: curate the sort of support systems that we need for
Speaker 1: ourselves if something resonates with you while enjoying our conversation.
Speaker 1: Please share with us on social media using the hashtag
Speaker 1: TBG in session or us over in the Sister Circle.
Speaker 1: To talk more about the episode, you can join us
Speaker 1: at community dot Therapy for Black Girls dot com. Here's
Speaker 1: our conversation. Well, thank you so much for joining us today, Yolo.
Speaker 2: Thank you for having me, Joyce. Always an honor to
Speaker 2: be in your presence and just be a part of
Speaker 2: your work. I have a lot of respect and admiration
Speaker 2: for you and what you do with Therapy for Black Girls.
Speaker 1: Likewise, Likewise, I'm very glad we get to chat today. So, Yolo,
Speaker 1: we have done a lot of work together, but I
Speaker 1: don't think I've ever actually heard you tell the founding
Speaker 1: story of BEAM and how you got started in this work.
Speaker 1: So can you tell me about your work with BEAM
Speaker 1: and how it got started?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Absolutely So. I guess the context of it is
Speaker 2: that I went to undergrad Black studies and Women's studies
Speaker 2: and that led me on a route of engaging psychology
Speaker 2: and healing that for about ten to fifteen years I
Speaker 2: was doing work in three different films, HIV and AIDS
Speaker 2: work really supporting the mental health and wellness of a
Speaker 2: lot of black, queer and trans folks who are living
Speaker 2: with HIV, are navigating HIV, and then also actually working
Speaker 2: in community violence work. I spent a great deal of
Speaker 2: my career working with men who had been either court
Speaker 2: mandated or church mandated to go through a behavioral and
Speaker 2: learning process around anger and violence right. So that was
Speaker 2: a big part of my work. Through that work, I
Speaker 2: saw gaps. I saw gaps around healing, I saw gaps
Speaker 2: around mental health. I saw how our communities, many of
Speaker 2: the first responders, particularly in the rural South. I was
Speaker 2: outside of Atlanta and then in Atlanta at one point,
Speaker 2: the people who were responding they weren't always therapist and
Speaker 2: social workers. They were have big mamas and the teachers
Speaker 2: and the coaches and the pastors, and didn't always have
Speaker 2: great skills for it right, didn't always have tools. And
Speaker 2: so after years of witnessing that, I was like, Okay,
Speaker 2: I want to create this thing that takes an approach
Speaker 2: that not only helps resource people like therapists and social workers,
Speaker 2: but also the other folks who are doing the other
Speaker 2: kind of immediate crisis care support. And I didn't see
Speaker 2: people really holding space with those folks to get better
Speaker 2: tools to do that. Not for them to become therapists, right,
Speaker 2: but for them to have better skills of listening, of affirming,
Speaker 2: of knowing their limitations and their boundaries. Because in addition
Speaker 2: to them offering crisis care a lot people who were
Speaker 2: not trained, sometimes they were also making choices that maybe
Speaker 2: weren't the best choices that help the people. Right. So
Speaker 2: that kind of led me to want to build an
Speaker 2: institution they could respond to that they can really center
Speaker 2: healing and care for our folks in a way that
Speaker 2: I think that black people will respond to or hope. So,
Speaker 2: so that's the long version of how I got to
Speaker 2: the moment of creating being.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so tell me more about the work that
Speaker 1: you all have been doing since the founding Lord, the
Speaker 1: work in highlights. I mean, we could be here for
Speaker 1: every talking about all the stuff that y'all do.
Speaker 2: I always tell people that Beam builds ecosystems of care.
Speaker 2: And if you think about an ecosystem, it is everything
Speaker 2: from the water, it is in the air, it is
Speaker 2: in the ground, it's in the land, everything, right, And
Speaker 2: so we really fund, train and resource a network or
Speaker 2: constellation of black healing, justice, wellness, and mental health efforts
Speaker 2: across the United States. I'm sorry to the United States,
Speaker 2: but actually we are now in Canada and in South Africa,
Speaker 2: so it's across the world. Excuse me, I'm getting used
Speaker 2: to that. I ain't been that fancy. I'd just been
Speaker 2: in the hoods, so I didn't know I could go
Speaker 2: into thatglorhood. We do that in three different ways. One
Speaker 2: is training. We have our training programs which are designed
Speaker 2: for anybody wherever you are. It doesn't matter if you're
Speaker 2: a teacher, you're a parent, you're an activist. Many therapists
Speaker 2: and social workers come to our trainings to get tools, skills,
Speaker 2: and resources from a healing justice lens to support your community.
Speaker 2: And so we have a Black mental Health and Healing
Speaker 2: Justice program. I call it a really kind of a
Speaker 2: radical response to the limitations of mental health first aid.
Speaker 2: I get in trouble for that. Sometimes mental health first
Speaker 2: aid and my experience just didn't hold the history of
Speaker 2: why black people had the concerns that had about mental health,
Speaker 2: and we created a training program that actually gave that context.
Speaker 2: This is why, right, this is the legacy of how
Speaker 2: mental health has been used against black people. And here's
Speaker 2: also legacy of healing that black people have done in
Speaker 2: the context of that. Let's hold both of those and
Speaker 2: get people really skills and tools we think about. Here's
Speaker 2: what you can do through your daily choices that help
Speaker 2: cultivate wellness in the world. Here are some tools for
Speaker 2: crisis support, the centered dignity. Now, you have a role
Speaker 2: in creating healing and wellness with the community. Your role
Speaker 2: is important as an actor wherever you are in the community.
Speaker 2: So we have trainings like that. Our Black Masculine and
Speaker 2: Reimagined Program, which I always say is really bell Hook's inspired.
Speaker 2: It's a program for Black men and masculine folks to
Speaker 2: unlearned rigid masculinity and how that has contributed to their
Speaker 2: mental health and the stress in our communities, right, which
Speaker 2: is bell Hooks coded all day. So we have our
Speaker 2: training programs which do that piece as well as our
Speaker 2: healing circles will happen every month, which hopefully you'll be
Speaker 2: doing one for us soon. And then we have our
Speaker 2: grant programs which essentially fund and reset source or network
Speaker 2: of institutions that are doing some dynamic dope work, but
Speaker 2: the underresource right, So Black Worness Innovation Funds, selling homeless
Speaker 2: Support Fund. Our Parents Support Fund gives economic cash directly
Speaker 2: to parents who are struggling with mental health conditions. But
Speaker 2: those funds are really saying that we need to sustain
Speaker 2: these efforts. And most of our grantees are like small
Speaker 2: organizations Mom and pops doing work around supporting survivors of
Speaker 2: gun violence, right, mom and pops doing stuff in the
Speaker 2: churches right in the Deep South, trying to hold mental
Speaker 2: health space. Those are the folks who want to make
Speaker 2: sure they have money to do their work. And so
Speaker 2: those are the two big components of our work, the
Speaker 2: training and the grand making.
Speaker 1: So when we decided that we wanted to talk about community,
Speaker 1: you were the first person I thought about, because I
Speaker 1: think that you and the work that y'all do at
Speaker 1: Being feel synonymous with community to me. Can you tell
Speaker 1: me what you've learned about community through your work at Being?
Speaker 2: Oh love waiting enough time? I don't like about community? Now, well,
Speaker 2: I've learned a lot. The first thing I learned when
Speaker 2: we first started doing trainings in different communities, and granted,
Speaker 2: you know, Being does trainings all across the United States.
Speaker 2: So I've done trainings in rural Florida, Alabama. We've done
Speaker 2: trainings in New York, et cetera. And one of the
Speaker 2: first things that kind of caught my attention with their
Speaker 2: trainings was we would ask people in community, what does
Speaker 2: the word mental health mean to you? And the responsible
Speaker 2: would get quite often where people would say, when I
Speaker 2: hear mental health, I think about my cousin who got
Speaker 2: taken away when he had an episode and he's been
Speaker 2: in the prison system ever since. Or they would say
Speaker 2: I remember my sister who is now in the system
Speaker 2: because they said she had X y Z XYZ. Right.
Speaker 2: And so one of the things I started learning really
Speaker 2: quickly about community, particularly when it comes to Black folks
Speaker 2: in mental health, was that most Black people don't experience
Speaker 2: the prison industrial complex as separate from the mental health
Speaker 2: industrial complex. I think some of us have these really
Speaker 2: beautiful experiences with therapists like yourself, but a lot of
Speaker 2: our folks who are and under resource communities, that is
Speaker 2: the first connection they have with it, and so that
Speaker 2: fuels the ways in which they feel comfortable in community
Speaker 2: to disclose about their mental health challenges. Right, because there's
Speaker 2: an ever pressing fear of incarceration as a possibility of
Speaker 2: demonization of I'm living with borderline personality. I'm living with bipolar,
Speaker 2: I'm living with depression, whatever that reality may be for someone, right,
Speaker 2: And so I realized that that was a big fear
Speaker 2: that we had to acknowledge and hold in the space.
Speaker 2: We couldn't fix it, but we could acknowledge and say, hey,
Speaker 2: we want to acknowledge. Yes, there are systems that sometimes
Speaker 2: use these things against us and are also our individual actors.
Speaker 2: I call them the black healing justice underground railroad of therapists,
Speaker 2: of psychiatrists, of practitioners who are also going to help
Speaker 2: you get these systems and take care of you. How
Speaker 2: do we find those people elevate them? So I've learned
Speaker 2: a lot about that with community, and that's one piece
Speaker 2: that's really clear to me is that people are afraid
Speaker 2: and it's legitimate from real ways on which unfortunately some
Speaker 2: of them are toxic. Elements of this dominant system have
Speaker 2: impacted to people around mental health.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean such important work, right, Because to your point,
Speaker 1: I'm glad that you highlighted how synonymous it is with
Speaker 1: prison for a lot of people, because a lot of
Speaker 1: times you are forced into the mental health system against
Speaker 1: your will, right, Like not all people are signing up
Speaker 1: to go to therapy. Sometimes it is because you've been
Speaker 1: court mandated, like you mentioned, or there are other things
Speaker 1: that have happened that you then have an interaction with
Speaker 1: a mental health professional. I hear people talk about community
Speaker 1: a lot now, and I think, especially as we're thinking
Speaker 1: about a new Trump presidency, there will be I think
Speaker 1: a need to lean more into community. So in the
Speaker 1: context of that, like people creating their personal communities and
Speaker 1: you know, communities in their neighborhood, what does that mean
Speaker 1: to you, and like, how do we get started in
Speaker 1: creating community.
Speaker 2: Yeah. One of the tools we have in our Black
Speaker 2: Mental health and hialent Justice program is called the Community
Speaker 2: Care Map, and it's one of my favorite tools. And
Speaker 2: we have two sides to it. One side is this
Speaker 2: really opportunity for people to be like, let me feel
Speaker 2: this out so people know what I need for my
Speaker 2: own christ my own care, so that if something shifts
Speaker 2: coming happens in the community, n't prepared right. And the
Speaker 2: reason I want to talk about that is because we know,
Speaker 2: in this particular moment, we need to be aware of
Speaker 2: how to best support each other. And when I say
Speaker 2: where about best support each other? The community care plan
Speaker 2: is really splicific. It's like, tell me about your allergies,
Speaker 2: tell me about medications you're on. Where's your doctors, what
Speaker 2: are your children's allergies, what's your pets? In case something
Speaker 2: happens that you need support and you cannot be able
Speaker 2: to manage that for whatever reason, how do we show
Speaker 2: up for you? Right? And so doing that and sharing
Speaker 2: that in community builds a level of trust, right, the
Speaker 2: people you got to discern who you're going to trust with, right,
Speaker 2: you can share them everyone. But how are you building
Speaker 2: community intentionally to say that? Like join me and you
Speaker 2: say you're hypothetical men, you look close to each other.
Speaker 2: Do you know if something goes down, how to best
Speaker 2: support me? Do I know how to best support you?
Speaker 2: How we're being thoughtful and intentional about our friendships and
Speaker 2: our networks and saying, I need folks who actually know
Speaker 2: what I'm going through, what's going on with me because
Speaker 2: in this political moment, we don't know what will shift
Speaker 2: and what will happen. Right, So I think that we
Speaker 2: need to get really intentional and discern who those folks
Speaker 2: are in our community, right and use those tools really thoughtfully.
Speaker 2: So that's one piece differ me stands out, and I
Speaker 2: think we've also got to engage our fear of community,
Speaker 2: you know, our fear of being seen. I think that's
Speaker 2: a big piece to it. I know you probably see
Speaker 2: this also in the community cultivate, like you know, everybody,
Speaker 2: I don't want nobody in my business. Everybody gotta be
Speaker 2: in all your business. But sometimes in this culture of
Speaker 2: instagram perfectionism, we're trying to always project this image that
Speaker 2: it's not real. We're trying to like hide behind the image,
Speaker 2: and that image becomes a prison where we cannot connect
Speaker 2: authentically what people we care about. We're so afraid of
Speaker 2: people seeing our blemishes and our flaws or the reality
Speaker 2: is those things make us beautiful. But in order for
Speaker 2: people to really care for us, we have to lean
Speaker 2: into the fear of being cared for and the fear
Speaker 2: of being seen, which a lot of us have. Right,
Speaker 2: we got the nice pictures up, but who am I really?
Speaker 2: I think those are big pieces I think.
Speaker 1: About m Can you say more about that, because you're right,
Speaker 1: I think that that will be a very very important
Speaker 1: thing for people to hold on to, this idea that
Speaker 1: I want community. But am I really ready or do
Speaker 1: I feel comfortable actually being seen by other people. So
Speaker 1: how do you get rid of some of that fear? Like,
Speaker 1: what does it look like to even lean into that woo?
Speaker 2: All right, some of it is coming up in our
Speaker 2: trainings where we have a lot of work around conflict, right,
Speaker 2: because this is the piece where we see a lot
Speaker 2: of us struggling in our communities. I always say that
Speaker 2: in my experience in our communities is that most of
Speaker 2: us experience conflict as either a blow up or an abandonment. Right.
Speaker 2: People often shy away from engaging the things that are uncomfortable,
Speaker 2: the things from taking responsibility, from naming things that are
Speaker 2: difficult to them. If we don't begin to cultivate more
Speaker 2: skills and tools to relate to conflict differently, we can't
Speaker 2: build intimacy and we can't build community. Right. But the
Speaker 2: reality is, when somebody starts to see you, you're gonna
Speaker 2: sometimes mess up. Somebody gonna push sugar in your grads.
Speaker 2: It's gonna be a whole crisis. How are you going
Speaker 2: to manage the conflict? Right? You need to have some
Speaker 2: skills and tools and some thinking around why do I
Speaker 2: show up in this way and conflict and what's the
Speaker 2: opportunity for me to build different skills because one things
Speaker 2: I see happening in our communities and people trying to
Speaker 2: build community, And addition, the fear of being seen is
Speaker 2: the fear of being quote unquote wrong or doing the
Speaker 2: wrong thing right or being the wrong thing, and then
Speaker 2: also the fear of somebody sees me. If there's a conflict,
Speaker 2: I don't know how to manage it or I don't
Speaker 2: want to manage it. So a part of what we
Speaker 2: have to do is really begin to look at our
Speaker 2: conflict history, so well, what do we learn from the
Speaker 2: people who raised us, who around us, What do we
Speaker 2: want to show up in when conflict shows up? How
Speaker 2: do I learn to manage that in my body? And
Speaker 2: how do I learn to speak my truth and not
Speaker 2: make myself smaller when I'm in the midst of conflict,
Speaker 2: but not denigrate other people as well. I think that
Speaker 2: that's a big piece of community building that I see
Speaker 2: social skills deteriorating around right, Like people just don't know
Speaker 2: how to say I did not like that. And you know,
Speaker 2: we do a lot of training in our programs around
Speaker 2: like helping people understand when you're in conflict. A big
Speaker 2: part of what we have to sometimes learn to do
Speaker 2: is make a distinction between the person and the behavior,
Speaker 2: the idea and the choice they did. Right, me, and
Speaker 2: you are a confident might be like Yolo, it's not you,
Speaker 2: it's a problem, but it's this behavior. You are welcome here.
Speaker 2: This behavior is not. And I'm making that distinction right
Speaker 2: and naming that explicitly the people so that like I
Speaker 2: love you, I don't love this behavior. I don't love
Speaker 2: these choices, and I don't like these ideas you are presenting.
Speaker 2: And that creates a little bit greace because maybe I
Speaker 2: can look at my behavior, you know what I mean,
Speaker 2: I can put some salt in butter in a grace
Speaker 2: next time, you know what I mean, I can do
Speaker 2: a different behavior. But if you attack the core of me,
Speaker 2: if Yola is a problem, if joys a problem, most
Speaker 2: of us just go on to defense mode.
Speaker 1: Yeah, more from our conversation after the break, But first,
Speaker 1: a quick snippet of what's coming up next week on TVG.
Speaker 3: And when we talk about health or what is healthy again?
Speaker 3: Quote unquote, we want things to happen real quick. We
Speaker 3: don't want to think about Oh, I've been struggling for
Speaker 3: an image sort for a decade, but I expect my
Speaker 3: weight to change in a week, or I want my
Speaker 3: cravings to come back in a week, even though I
Speaker 3: haven't been having true hunger and fullness cravings for years.
Speaker 3: So that quick fast fix, I think is ideal to people,
Speaker 3: even if it comes with some real side effects.
Speaker 1: We're so honored to be nominated for the Outstanding Lifestyle
Speaker 1: and Self Help Podcast category at the fifty six annual
Speaker 1: NAACP Image Awards, but we cannot win without your support.
Speaker 1: Please take a second to go to vote dot Naacpimage
Speaker 1: Awards dot net and vote for Therapy for Black Girls. So, Yola,
Speaker 1: what you're talking about is very messy, I think, right,
Speaker 1: like being able to hold space for each other's humanity
Speaker 1: in that way, right, But I think it is important
Speaker 1: if we are looking at building intentional community, right, which
Speaker 1: I think is going to be critical. It has always
Speaker 1: been critical, but I think especially in this moment in history,
Speaker 1: like us leaning into one another in this way I
Speaker 1: think will be really important. And so another piece of
Speaker 1: this community conversation I think is like accountability, which it
Speaker 1: feels like you are talking about a little bit like
Speaker 1: this idea that if something happens in community. What is
Speaker 1: the accountability like, what does that look like for a
Speaker 1: community to hold the members of the community accountable to
Speaker 1: one another.
Speaker 2: And one thing I want to say about the mess,
Speaker 2: and this I always tell people, there is a message
Speaker 2: in your mess. Don't rush to clean it up, don't
Speaker 2: rush to mopis Sometimes you got to look at that now,
Speaker 2: what is that mess on the floor, Look at it,
Speaker 2: figure out how it's stank. Yes, it's stank. You need
Speaker 2: to smell it for a little bit. Look at it
Speaker 2: and figure it out. Because we're so in a rush
Speaker 2: to make sure nobody sees it that we don't actually
Speaker 2: examine the texture of it, get clear where it came from,
Speaker 2: who we inherited, from, where we learned to practice right.
Speaker 2: So that's an important piece about mess management because it's
Speaker 2: really not about not being messive. We all messy in
Speaker 2: some ways, right. It's about mess management. How do you
Speaker 2: know how to hold it right? So this piece about
Speaker 2: accountability is really something I see happen a lot in
Speaker 2: community and people are really in conversation about this. I
Speaker 2: come from school of thought that really comes out of
Speaker 2: the work of Miro and Kaba and many other transformative
Speaker 2: justice practitioners. We talk about accountability as not something necessarily
Speaker 2: I can do for someone else, but someone has to
Speaker 2: hold themselves accountable. What I can do with someone else
Speaker 2: is create the space for them to own and take
Speaker 2: accountability for their actions. Now that's different from saying, here
Speaker 2: are consequences of your actions, right, Like, we can create consequences,
Speaker 2: but the accountability as an emotional experience is something that
Speaker 2: you can only cultivate space for people to do, but
Speaker 2: they may not be able to step into. I spent
Speaker 2: a large part of my career working with many men
Speaker 2: who had internalized deep patriarchy and sexism around their relationship
Speaker 2: with women, and therefore did not always have the willingness
Speaker 2: to take accountability for their choices and how they hurt people. Right.
Speaker 2: And so even though we made their consequences, they never
Speaker 2: took accountability because they didn't have the inner resources to
Speaker 2: name and this own I did that I was wrong
Speaker 2: for that, right, And so I think that we need
Speaker 2: to recognize when we talk about this accountability conversation, there's
Speaker 2: two dimensions that think are really important. One naming what
Speaker 2: is happening, right, naming the behavior the things that are happening.
Speaker 2: Understanding that sometimes when we're coming to people when you
Speaker 2: name those things. They may not be prepared to take
Speaker 2: responsibility for it. They might not have the inner psychological
Speaker 2: emotional resources to take responsibility for We all know this.
Speaker 2: We got a relative of our hunting that do a
Speaker 2: certain thing. But because we see how her trauma her
Speaker 2: stuff shows up, she can't take responsibility for says, you've
Speaker 2: been putting raisins in the potato salad, and we know it,
Speaker 2: but she can't take responsibility for it. Right, She's not
Speaker 2: in the place to own it because of where she
Speaker 2: is in her own psychological life. Right, But that doesn't
Speaker 2: mean that we don't need to put some parameters up
Speaker 2: to make sure the potato salad is safe in the future.
Speaker 2: So that means the community we come around it and
Speaker 2: be like, guess what, you ain't coming over this play.
Speaker 2: You ain't coming over here and putting another play. You
Speaker 2: don't cook in this kitchen this time. We can create
Speaker 2: consequences if she continues the behavior, but we can't force
Speaker 2: her to take responsibility if she is not psychologically prepared
Speaker 2: and ready to do so. We can only put consequences
Speaker 2: and name it loving and supportive. As much as we can.
Speaker 2: That process not the survivors of it, but the people
Speaker 2: who are outside of that process can be I think
Speaker 2: they need to be people who are holding that space,
Speaker 2: if that makes sense.
Speaker 1: Mm hmmmmm. I want to go back to the community
Speaker 1: Care map because I love that it is so concrete.
Speaker 1: So you started telling us about some of the things.
Speaker 1: Can you give us more details about what kinds of
Speaker 1: questions we should be asking other people that we are
Speaker 1: hoping to build intentional community with.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we need to be asking on our community care map,
Speaker 2: and I'll make sure we get a tool hopfully prepare
Speaker 2: with this. We need to be asking who are the
Speaker 2: therapists and the wellness practitioners we trust in our city,
Speaker 2: in our area when the crisis comes, who are you calling?
Speaker 2: What are the emergency support services that you trust? Who
Speaker 2: are those folks? Right? I can tell you how many
Speaker 2: times people have come to me or told me stories
Speaker 2: about someone has a medical emergency or a mental health emergency.
Speaker 2: And then you find out things about your husband or
Speaker 2: your partner, are your best friend that you didn't even know,
Speaker 2: And it's like if I had known these things, I
Speaker 2: probably would be a better prepared to support them in
Speaker 2: that moment. Right, So we need to like have those
Speaker 2: depth conversations. What are the in what you feel like
Speaker 2: best resource and supported when you're in distress? What are
Speaker 2: the needs things that calm you? What are your strategies?
Speaker 2: How can I support your strategies? How can we be
Speaker 2: in collaboration around those strategies? Right? Because it's not about
Speaker 2: self care to me, it's about community care practices. If
Speaker 2: I know that taking a walk every day helps my
Speaker 2: mental health, I need to be calling joy and joy
Speaker 2: can you take a walk with me every day? Can
Speaker 2: we take each other in mind o the own medication,
Speaker 2: our blood pressure medication, our mental health medication, like really
Speaker 2: making sure people are involved in supporting us and not
Speaker 2: isolating it's all on me to do with u's all
Speaker 2: on you. I think those are the things we need
Speaker 2: to be asking questions about. How can we be in
Speaker 2: interconnectedness and interrelated in that way and not be so
Speaker 2: this is my family and I got to care this
Speaker 2: all on myself as opposed to well, hold on joy.
Speaker 2: You and your kids are also important to me too,
Speaker 2: you and your husband. I how do I support y'all?
Speaker 2: How do we support each other? Which I think doesn't
Speaker 2: happen a lot in our culture as much as they can.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, you bring up a good point. I think
Speaker 1: a great saveway from my next question around. So many
Speaker 1: of us are socialized to be individualistic, right Like, we
Speaker 1: are in a marria, and so a lot of our
Speaker 1: teaching and a lot of the ways that we're socialized
Speaker 1: is to take care of myself and my family, right like.
Speaker 1: And it's fine to have friends or whatever, but not
Speaker 1: in the way that you're talking about it, right, that
Speaker 1: we are responsible too and for one another. What's the
Speaker 1: balance there of being in a society that really stresses
Speaker 1: individualism and wanting to build very intentional communities.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the line, the line, the line, Well, the line
Speaker 2: is different for different folks. Well, I think about families particularly,
Speaker 2: and this is something that's come up a lot in
Speaker 2: the work recently. There's this number of families who are
Speaker 2: like the husband and the wife, they have two kids,
Speaker 2: and they feel a lot of shame about asking support
Speaker 2: from other parents or like other parents are going through
Speaker 2: the same challenges. Well, and as opposed to being like,
Speaker 2: I'm like, what would it mean for y'all to be like, hey,
Speaker 2: let's trade weekends, right, y'all gonna get the kid? We
Speaker 2: go you'll get your kids on this weekend, so y'all
Speaker 2: get a break, and then we get the kids on
Speaker 2: the break, get on the weekend, and then what I
Speaker 2: see happiness bari aus to that is it. There's a
Speaker 2: lot of internalized, particularly for mothers, a lot of internalized
Speaker 2: misogyny because the culture shame's mothers so much around. You
Speaker 2: should want to be the child, should be the center
Speaker 2: of your world all the time, and you should never
Speaker 2: like what and then like you got a whole husband
Speaker 2: you try to navigate, or a whole partner you're trying
Speaker 2: to navigate. We're thinking about how do we building intentional
Speaker 2: practices that breaks space for us? So we're like, you
Speaker 2: know what, every other month, every month, I got the
Speaker 2: kids this week, can you get a kiss? And then
Speaker 2: you and your husband and your partner get a break? Right,
Speaker 2: that's a mental health support system, right, Like thinking about
Speaker 2: how do we build in practices together that help each
Speaker 2: other but also interrogate those ideas of shame that say
Speaker 2: that we should be able to do it all ourselves,
Speaker 2: which we know in a capitalist context, this world is
Speaker 2: making it harder and harder economically for us to do that.
Speaker 2: And there's so many practices we can do. Like I
Speaker 2: think about in Caribbean culture, they have the lotteries where
Speaker 2: you like to be put money in a pot and
Speaker 2: then every month a different family against the pot. Those
Speaker 2: are the practices we need back again, right, we need
Speaker 2: those kind of wellness practices again, those kind of money practices.
Speaker 2: And so I think about leaning into having the real
Speaker 2: conversations about says, ain't got it. I'm struggling here. Okay,
Speaker 2: well here's what I can do. What can you do?
Speaker 2: You know what I mean. I'm gonna drop a cancel
Speaker 2: role and surprise checking over on that day because I
Speaker 2: can cook on that day. Maybe that's my jam. Maybe
Speaker 2: that's not your jam. Maybe your jam is you can
Speaker 2: do something else. You will support me. Let's start the
Speaker 2: barter system of care system to support each other.
Speaker 1: The point you raise around capitalism, I think is very real,
Speaker 1: right because I think what has happened is that I'm
Speaker 1: thinking about like how I grew up, and I know
Speaker 1: we both grew up in the South. I would be
Speaker 1: at my grandmother's house, myself and all of my cousins, right,
Speaker 1: so there wasn't ever my parents were only responsible for me,
Speaker 1: like the whole family was responsible for all of the kids.
Speaker 1: But I think what has happened is that people are
Speaker 1: working longer hours, people are traveling further to work, So
Speaker 1: there has been this real breakdown and like the community
Speaker 1: kind of taking care of one another. So what creative
Speaker 1: practices maybe can you offer for people who want to
Speaker 1: maybe do some of this but because of long commuting
Speaker 1: times and those kinds of things, feel really strained to
Speaker 1: be able to practice some of this.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. One thing that I am practicing and
Speaker 2: I'm encouraging communities I'm into practice is the language of
Speaker 2: I will make time for what resources me. Right, Sometimes
Speaker 2: there's this language of time scarcity. Ain't got time and
Speaker 2: got time? It's well hold on, I make time for
Speaker 2: the things I want to make time for. Am I
Speaker 2: willing to commit and invest in making time for things
Speaker 2: that support my long term sustainability of my wellness? Am
Speaker 2: I making time for it? I make time to go
Speaker 2: to the Meganisign concert. I make time to like work
Speaker 2: on tuesdays, like you know what? But like, are you
Speaker 2: making time to say? What are my regular ritual practices
Speaker 2: and how am I drawing my community and intentionally for
Speaker 2: my long term wellness? Right? Am I making the hour
Speaker 2: that thirty minutes, that forty five minutes, and then we
Speaker 2: got to switch our mind around that, right and understanding
Speaker 2: it's an investment. So just when you invest in that
Speaker 2: friendship and then that connection and then those collective support,
Speaker 2: as you invest in it and you build it grows
Speaker 2: can grow, right, And so I think that's really one
Speaker 2: thing I want to invite people to think about and
Speaker 2: also just honored that, like I understand the fear of
Speaker 2: letting people get too close to you that many of
Speaker 2: us have. Right, We're going to practice to as much
Speaker 2: as we can. We're going to recognize that also sometimes
Speaker 2: a part of the journey is that people will disappoint you,
Speaker 2: people will let you down. You will have to teach
Speaker 2: people how to love you and care for you and
Speaker 2: your family. They will have to learn how to practice.
Speaker 2: You have to ask that they are worthy of being
Speaker 2: able to practice with you. Nobody's going to get it
Speaker 2: right first time. And Buddhas and they have this idea
Speaker 2: of the good bodies south of the courageous warrior with
Speaker 2: the heart. Right, we have to be courageous with our
Speaker 2: heart to know that we put our heart forward. Sometimes
Speaker 2: it's going to get bruised and hurt. But how do
Speaker 2: we still keep our heart open in the midst of
Speaker 2: that holding and manny of the other person and draw
Speaker 2: those boundaries as we need to. But let them practice,
Speaker 2: right And I think that's the piece of the work
Speaker 2: that I really want to invite us to do when
Speaker 2: we talk about building communities each other. We got to
Speaker 2: practice the honey, because aha'mn know you know what I mean. Joey,
Speaker 2: you come over here and you putting sugar in migris.
Speaker 2: I'm like, lord, joy now I'm just like I'm trying
Speaker 2: to do it. No more. We're done, We've done it.
Speaker 2: I don't tell her she did this and we ain't
Speaker 2: done it, and I ain't talking and she should know.
Speaker 2: She should. You know, wherever they're should they're shamed. Stop
Speaker 2: assuming what everybody else knows, and start talking to folks
Speaker 2: and engaging folks and give them a chance to practice
Speaker 2: loving you and caring for you. And the more we practice,
Speaker 2: you'll see who will show up in the practice right right,
Speaker 2: You'll see who's committed to the practice. Who some people
Speaker 2: gon be. Mookie might not make it, you know, Niko
Speaker 2: might make you know who go you and find out okay.
Speaker 1: Mm hmmm. Something you just said yo, made me think
Speaker 1: about this idea of like, Okay, I'm gonna cut you
Speaker 1: off now because you did this thing wrong. I think
Speaker 1: it started well intentioned, right, Like, I think there's so
Speaker 1: much conversation around boundaries and honoring ourselves and protecting our
Speaker 1: piece that it is. Now it feels like it has
Speaker 1: gone a little further than I think maybe we intended
Speaker 1: with the conversation around at the first sign of trouble
Speaker 1: or conflict, as you mentioned, now we're saying like okay,
Speaker 1: I don't want to be in community with you anymore,
Speaker 1: or I'm cutting you off now. What would you say
Speaker 1: about some of the rush to kind of severtisee with
Speaker 1: folks wo joy?
Speaker 2: We have to acknowledge how deeply sensitive and how hurt
Speaker 2: we all have been by times would your experience trail time?
Speaker 2: So much experience hurt, and I think when we acknowledge
Speaker 2: the fullness of that, because it's a lot of pretending
Speaker 2: that we're not sensitive that goes on.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: I think about like sometimes hold the young people and
Speaker 2: they'll be like, well, I don't care about nothing, And
Speaker 2: what I actually hear when you say I don't care
Speaker 2: about nothing is actually I care so much I actually
Speaker 2: don't know how to hold it. Right, So I think
Speaker 2: we got to acknowledge how deeply impacted we are by
Speaker 2: things and also recognize that people will make mistakes when
Speaker 2: they are caring for us. Right, how do we name
Speaker 2: those things? How do we not assume what they should know?
Speaker 2: And how do we discern that this person is worth
Speaker 2: in the context and investment in our relationship? Right? It's
Speaker 2: cutting people off things like this is perfectionist. It's just
Speaker 2: like this inverted perfectionism. Right. You should know I'm cutting
Speaker 2: them off because I ain't. It's like, well, hold on,
Speaker 2: did they give you some feedback that you don't want
Speaker 2: to hear that you are called with? Were they not
Speaker 2: able to meet your unsustainable standards of how a man
Speaker 2: woman person should be. Did you actually come back to
Speaker 2: them and say, hey, this is what I experience. Okay,
Speaker 2: experience this happening, and I want to know what you
Speaker 2: experience and see you and see what we can get
Speaker 2: some understanding as opposed to this happened. I made up
Speaker 2: a story about it in my head, and I didn't
Speaker 2: engage you about the story. I just disappeared. So my
Speaker 2: trauma narrative is taking control. I got this whole story, like, well,
Speaker 2: you know, Joy did this because jord Band had be
Speaker 2: for me. Since Joy's like, I don't even know what
Speaker 2: you're talking about, you know what I mean? You know,
Speaker 2: made a whole story in your mind. Because we know
Speaker 2: we all have myths and fairy tales we tell ourselves
Speaker 2: on time. Me and Michael B. Jordan's been dating for years.
Speaker 2: He don't know that Joy, that's a story. That's a story,
Speaker 2: the story, right, and so we have to be mindful
Speaker 2: of stories we tell ourselves. Our feelings are always valid,
Speaker 2: but our stories sometimes are not fully round. They be
Speaker 2: missing pieces. And sometimes when we've been through so much,
Speaker 2: we have this impulse to be like, just cut it
Speaker 2: off because I don't want that thing to happen to
Speaker 2: happen last time, right, But sometimes it's actually not that thing.
Speaker 2: It just felt like that thing or activated that thing.
Speaker 2: But if we don't stay around a long enough to
Speaker 2: figure out, we might miss on something really beautiful. This
Speaker 2: happens a lot of the dating, like a lot of
Speaker 2: so that's the work who work doing data, they're always like, well,
Speaker 2: I just cut him off because he did this like
Speaker 2: that da Dad. I'm like, well, hold on, did you
Speaker 2: have a conversation with him about what he did? Did
Speaker 2: you talk to her about what she did? Well? No,
Speaker 2: I ain't finna talk Okay, So how do you expect
Speaker 2: to be an intimacy and relationship if you aren't having conversation,
Speaker 2: if you aren't confronting your fear around naming your truth.
Speaker 1: So you mentioned the term discernment several times as we've
Speaker 1: been talking, and I think we may take for granted
Speaker 1: that people understand like what that is, and like, how
Speaker 1: do I know that somebody is trustworthy versus not? But
Speaker 1: what tips and strategy maybe would you have for people around? Like,
Speaker 1: how do you actually practice discernment?
Speaker 2: Lord? I've learned this through all the mens that have
Speaker 2: dated hoidee discernment today. One thing I believe is behavior
Speaker 2: tells the truth about what you really value. And I
Speaker 2: cannot say that enough. It's like, we can talk about
Speaker 2: what we value, but the behavior is going to show
Speaker 2: me what you're value. Right. I can say all day
Speaker 2: that I love recycling, I care about the earth. Ain't
Speaker 2: no recyclment in my house? Girl? Well, how you where
Speaker 2: the behavior? So we like, you know what I mean?
Speaker 2: That's the behavior gonna tell the truth about what you value.
Speaker 2: And so I think that what we need to do
Speaker 2: is really like one spend time like listening and paying
Speaker 2: attention to people's behavior and their context. I'm always curious
Speaker 2: about people I'm sharing space with, like how do they
Speaker 2: talk about other people? They talk about people with compassion
Speaker 2: and grace, other they talk about people with shame and judgment,
Speaker 2: because that'say, they gonna talk about me, right, because everybody
Speaker 2: processing somebody? How do they show up? What is their
Speaker 2: standard for integrity? Some people standard for integrity is more
Speaker 2: about let me hide and get sneaky until nobody can
Speaker 2: find me out. Some people stand up of integrity is
Speaker 2: this don't feel right? Let me name any come to you.
Speaker 2: You're gonna learn by watching right and understand that intimacy
Speaker 2: is a slow burn. Right. It's not a quick like
Speaker 2: you know, like our coaches like we married tomorrow. It's like, okay,
Speaker 2: well you can do that, but it's gonna have consequences.
Speaker 2: You're gonna circle back. Right, Intimacy can be a slow burn.
Speaker 2: That it's like, let me watch you and see what
Speaker 2: you say and what you do and then see how
Speaker 2: they connect or don't connect and let me honor that like, hey,
Speaker 2: you might be a beautiful person, but I see where
Speaker 2: you are in your journey. Don't fit for what I
Speaker 2: need in my journey, like you know, don't fit for
Speaker 2: what I need in terms of integrity, don't fit for
Speaker 2: what I need in terms of how you talk about people,
Speaker 2: how you approach things. We have to watch and pay
Speaker 2: attention and discern and trust that gut when our body
Speaker 2: is reacting right, got trusted like m Some don't feel
Speaker 2: right about so and so, so and so. It might
Speaker 2: be a lovely human being who also is navigating some
Speaker 2: real deep challenges with this trust because they learn to
Speaker 2: lie to protect themselves, and so now they're lying about
Speaker 2: a lot of things. It doesn't mean they're not human
Speaker 2: and beautiful and powerful. It means, like where they are
Speaker 2: in their journey might not be able to support you
Speaker 2: where you are in yours. So a boundary needs to
Speaker 2: be drawn. That's the club friend. Now you don't be
Speaker 2: telling them your business. You go turn up, have a cocktail,
Speaker 2: all right, But well, I see you later. Sometimes we get confused.
Speaker 2: We try to make people global friends where they actually
Speaker 2: fit a certain arena of our life, right, and I
Speaker 2: think that's really an important piece of right discernment. Pay
Speaker 2: attention to your body, how your body reacts, how your
Speaker 2: spirit feels around them, what feelings they evote, what they do,
Speaker 2: what they say, and make a boundary with them off
Speaker 2: of that in terms of what they've shown you they
Speaker 2: can hold and you know, you have that conversation with
Speaker 2: them if you need to. Some people don't know it,
Speaker 2: and I'm seeing themselves, so you have to be mindful
Speaker 2: of that too.
Speaker 1: So there is I think a deep yearning for being
Speaker 1: in community kind of like we've been talking about today.
Speaker 1: But I think a lot of people get stuck with
Speaker 1: like where do I even find these people to be
Speaker 1: in community with? Am I just starting in my apartment
Speaker 1: building in my neighborhood? Like where would you suggest people
Speaker 1: start to kind of begin to build intentional community?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it can be different for different people.
Speaker 2: It can build them around interests. Like you know, we
Speaker 2: have our healing circles that happen in a monthly in
Speaker 2: Los Angeles in Atlanta, and a lot of people come
Speaker 2: there looking for community. Becuse of looking for people who
Speaker 2: are also saying I'm on a healing journey. I want
Speaker 2: to find like minds. Right, So if that's your jam,
Speaker 2: find those folks. If you want to learn how to
Speaker 2: play the piano, then go to a piano group of
Speaker 2: people who do play in a piano and cultivated relationships
Speaker 2: with those folks. Right, there's a lot of thing about
Speaker 2: shared interests and shared values. Find the spaces where those
Speaker 2: people will be reflected. I think it's really important if
Speaker 2: you're deeply into sisterhood, right, finding a spaces about sisterhood
Speaker 2: and like exploring that as a concept. Right, take some
Speaker 2: time understand what are your values and things that you
Speaker 2: like to do, and then finding people who also share
Speaker 2: some of those things is a great place to start.
Speaker 1: I think more from our conversation after the break and
Speaker 1: how do we get started with some of those maybe
Speaker 1: more intimate conversations that you suggested, Right, what has my
Speaker 1: history taught me about conflict? Like when in like a
Speaker 1: friendship or a community building experience, do we introduce these
Speaker 1: kinds of conversations?
Speaker 2: Woo? I don't know who. It's different for different folks, right,
Speaker 2: different different folks, but you know, I mean, like I
Speaker 2: am that person, and I'm sure what the exs they
Speaker 2: be Like, I'm like, so tell me about how you
Speaker 2: manage conflict, I know, how you like, you know, like
Speaker 2: they'd be like, oh lord, Y'll come in there and
Speaker 2: it's like, you know, look I'm getting old. I got
Speaker 2: time job. But anyway, but I think that's another discerning
Speaker 2: question too, about when it's the appropriate time to have
Speaker 2: that conversation. Sometimes the actual situations will provide the opportunity
Speaker 2: to learn how somebody shows up in conflict and give
Speaker 2: you the practice of figuring it out. Because when people
Speaker 2: intellectual say like I'm gonna tell them like it is,
Speaker 2: and then it comes to a thing telling them like
Speaker 2: it is right, So sometimes it's actually in the moment.
Speaker 2: How do I show up in the moment when the
Speaker 2: thing is happening to name this is happening and seeing
Speaker 2: how people respond to react that is a piece. But
Speaker 2: I think that like when it comes to conversations with
Speaker 2: family and community, and I've had these conversations, this is
Speaker 2: the intervention I get to people. I tell people when
Speaker 2: you want to have different conversations, particularly in black communities,
Speaker 2: I'm like, if you have meal that you like to
Speaker 2: prepare together, if you have a place you like to
Speaker 2: go get some off, y'all go to Popey's and get
Speaker 2: y'all buscus. That's y'all cham. I want to invite you
Speaker 2: to center food and nourishment and then open up a
Speaker 2: conversation and see what comes there. And people are always
Speaker 2: like WHOA. It really works because I was able to say, like, hey,
Speaker 2: I want to talk about this thing because the food
Speaker 2: can be a source of nourishment and support. But it's
Speaker 2: also a ritual we have. I think it's in our
Speaker 2: genes around coming around food for conversations that because people
Speaker 2: are ease a little bit more then they might be
Speaker 2: in other situations, right, And so I think being thoughtful
Speaker 2: about that. But also I think the other piece too,
Speaker 2: joy this is what I do. You have to be
Speaker 2: clear when you're going into a situation where you're trying
Speaker 2: to disclose something that's uncomfortable with someone that I'm sharing
Speaker 2: this for me with the understand that I have no
Speaker 2: control over how they may react or respond to this, right, Like,
Speaker 2: I just need to let you know this so I
Speaker 2: can do this for me. So it's helping me build
Speaker 2: the muscle to own my boundaries, protect my peace. You
Speaker 2: may not agree with it, you may not see it
Speaker 2: like that way. I might have to say, hey, mom,
Speaker 2: when you did this, it was really hurtful for me,
Speaker 2: and I need you to understand that's how I experience you,
Speaker 2: and it's okay if you didn't experience it like that.
Speaker 2: It's okay if that's not your truth. This is where
Speaker 2: it was for me and that just need you to
Speaker 2: know that. And I love you no less, but that
Speaker 2: behavior that hurt me. You got to center yourself in
Speaker 2: that right and understand that you can't control how they
Speaker 2: will react or respond. That you might not have this
Speaker 2: fairy tale ending, but it's more about taking care of
Speaker 2: yourself in that moment that that's what you need. So
Speaker 2: those are some things that just think about in the
Speaker 2: condext goes conversations.
Speaker 1: So it feels like a lot of community building and
Speaker 1: even maybe some of the things that you have suggested,
Speaker 1: they feel very extrovert coded, right, Are people who like
Speaker 1: naturally put themselves out there are okay with that? What
Speaker 1: about the introverts among us? Are people who maybe have
Speaker 1: had some betrayals in the past and maybe feel a
Speaker 1: little slower to warm up. What kinds of things can
Speaker 1: they do to really get engaged in building community?
Speaker 2: Yes, come all together, Georgia, it's like it's extravert coded. Howey,
Speaker 2: we ain't all go doing this right, right? And I
Speaker 2: think that, like one thing I want to be important
Speaker 2: to say is that assertiveness is not always a communication
Speaker 2: style that we need to be using in conflict. Sometimes
Speaker 2: passiveness is needed, sometimes passive, aggressive is needed, Sometimes aggressive
Speaker 2: as needed. People always think everybody should be a certain
Speaker 2: noitionhouln't because MC outside industry's honey, right, we need all
Speaker 2: the complications. There are situations where the passive is a strategy.
Speaker 2: For example, like we just talked together. Example of like
Speaker 2: having that direct conversation. Lots of people in our family,
Speaker 2: I'm not finna go have that conversation because that person's
Speaker 2: gonna act as a fool. So what often to passively do
Speaker 2: is you know, you ain't invited to the family cookout
Speaker 2: no more. And that is the communication that's going to
Speaker 2: be very clear to you that a boundary has been
Speaker 2: crossed and now you have a choice about how you
Speaker 2: want to do it right. It doesn't always have to
Speaker 2: be direct, right, you know what I mean? All of
Speaker 2: a sudden you be like, well you wasn't invited when
Speaker 2: there's the potatoes this time?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 2: Sometimes it really is okay for us to draw boundaries
Speaker 2: when we're like we don't respond in the same way
Speaker 2: or we don't respond as much. Right, I think that
Speaker 2: like those kinds of styles of boundaries are disrespected sometimes
Speaker 2: and sometimes are necessary in the context, particularly when it's
Speaker 2: not a safety concern, right, you know what I mean?
Speaker 2: So just want to hold confident. Management isn't always about
Speaker 2: a serv and sometimes it is about drawing boundaries that
Speaker 2: are actual disbehavioral boundaries that are just like I don't
Speaker 2: pick up the phone when this person calls immediately. I
Speaker 2: might call them back two hours later. Those are real
Speaker 2: clear communication that don't have to be so confrontational in
Speaker 2: the same way that might be introverse might not be
Speaker 2: as comfortable with. And I think they're legit.
Speaker 1: So you've referenced, you know, like again the hurt that
Speaker 1: many people have experienced as a part of community. How
Speaker 1: do you know when it's time to maybe leave a community?
Speaker 1: Because I think that that is real, right, Like, sometimes
Speaker 1: you have had the difficult conversations, you've given grades, you've
Speaker 1: done all the things, and then you realize, you know what,
Speaker 1: this may not be the relationship for me, or may
Speaker 1: not be the community. So what are some kind of
Speaker 1: signs or questions people can ask and like, how do
Speaker 1: you know maybe when it's time to leave a community.
Speaker 2: I'm always gonna start with listening to your body. What
Speaker 2: is your body telling you when you're around them? Do
Speaker 2: your shoulders tighten up? Do your chest get tight? After
Speaker 2: you've given opportunities for restoration and practice? Have they leaned
Speaker 2: in or how they pull back? What is your gut
Speaker 2: telling you?
Speaker 3: Know?
Speaker 2: I always ask people when it comes to certain situations,
Speaker 2: I'm like, when you think about this scenario, do you
Speaker 2: feel tight or do you feel released? Like or when
Speaker 2: I think about not calling them and talking to them,
Speaker 2: I just feel like I'm like, Okay, that's your body
Speaker 2: letting you know something has happened. Is like, when I
Speaker 2: think about going in there and having another conversation with them,
Speaker 2: I started swearing. I started stressing, Okay, your body's telling
Speaker 2: you something. What is that in the context of what's happening?
Speaker 2: Because there are times in which you just need to
Speaker 2: remove yourself from situations want to shown you that they
Speaker 2: don't have the skills, the capacity, the inner resources to
Speaker 2: show up for you the way you have asked them
Speaker 2: to honor that they just don't have it. Sometimes we
Speaker 2: don't have it right and then draw your boundary accordingly.
Speaker 2: But like getting out of that fairy tale thinking well
Speaker 2: maybe they will and they just mean and justify the
Speaker 2: baby as supposed to. Like, this is what this person
Speaker 2: has shown me who they are. My angel has said
Speaker 2: it to Oprah and it's one of the best courses ever.
Speaker 2: Its like when people show you who they are the
Speaker 2: first time, I will add this, I will have this
Speaker 2: in if I can, my angel worshipe. So I would say,
Speaker 2: when people show you who they are, inquire, check, double check,
Speaker 2: and once you double check, honor that is who they are.
Speaker 2: Let you don't mean this. Sometimes it's sometimes we think
Speaker 2: we're seeing something that's actually what we're seeing through our
Speaker 2: own lens, which is a little foggy and filter through
Speaker 2: our trauma, and we think we see it clearly, but
Speaker 2: we're not. So just double check and then once you
Speaker 2: get the fog off your lens, you'd be like, girl,
Speaker 2: that's what that was. Praise cod.
Speaker 1: So there's been less of conversations I think also around
Speaker 1: I think there is one layer of community that is
Speaker 1: these more intimate friendships and our you know, sisters, brotherhoods.
Speaker 1: And then there is I think, like just community care,
Speaker 1: thinking about like your neighbors and like what does that
Speaker 1: look like. So people have talked about like getting to
Speaker 1: know your neighbor's names, and I think that there are
Speaker 1: lots of reasons why in your community you would want
Speaker 1: to kind of know who your neighbors are, just in
Speaker 1: terms of can we pick up each other's packages, or
Speaker 1: like can people drops up off here for you? What
Speaker 1: other may be small ways can people get started with
Speaker 1: kind of building community in their local areas.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a great question. I think that it's supposed
Speaker 2: back to what you just said, like we all have
Speaker 2: those friends that have different roles in our lives and
Speaker 2: different community members who have roles in our lives, right,
Speaker 2: And so I think that like sometimes we think every
Speaker 2: friend we meet, ridiculous adults gotta be my best friend,
Speaker 2: gotta be really deeply tired, got the same spiritual values,
Speaker 2: and they're like, oh no, no, no, new, new, new new.
Speaker 2: I'm like very clear, going back to example ease earlier,
Speaker 2: I know that's my club friend. We go to club,
Speaker 2: we turned up. I know that's my friend I can
Speaker 2: trust to watch my kids, but I can't trust that
Speaker 2: friend to watch my kids, to hold space for me
Speaker 2: emotionally because they ain't got it. I can't trust that
Speaker 2: club friend to call the middle of night to help
Speaker 2: me fix a flat tire because they ain't That girl
Speaker 2: that's not who she is meeting people and understand they
Speaker 2: might not be that global thing for you. There's different
Speaker 2: parts of your life and your journey they hold. Right,
Speaker 2: My gym buddy who I work a at the gym with, right,
Speaker 2: not the same person that I call to when I'm
Speaker 2: in trauma and distress in the middle of the night. Right,
Speaker 2: those are different people. And so I think they're like
Speaker 2: beginning to want to talk to people, but also to
Speaker 2: examine these high expectations of friendship that we put on people.
Speaker 2: Like we're in this cultural moment where everybody's the expectations
Speaker 2: of friends and romantic relationships are that's really high. Like
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, the rents high and soul
Speaker 2: the expectations, right, you know what I mean? And like,
Speaker 2: you know, you gotta like realistically ground around what can
Speaker 2: people do, Like you know what you can do because
Speaker 2: you can't be all that in them people you be
Speaker 2: like I'm gonna be your gym buddy, we're gonna say whatever.
Speaker 2: We're gonna live somewhere. I'm gonna holler at you tomorrow. Right,
Speaker 2: you know, So think examining our expectations. Are they so high?
Speaker 2: Are they human centered? Are they perfectionism coded? Which is
Speaker 2: a lot of our stuff is it's like android coded.
Speaker 2: I call it's like everybody got to be getting it
Speaker 2: right and know none of us are like that.
Speaker 1: So you've offered I think lots of great insights around
Speaker 1: what makes building community or being in community difficult. So
Speaker 1: you talked about a fear of being seen, difficulty or
Speaker 1: discomfort with conflict, difficulty with time management, maybe other other
Speaker 1: things that have come up in your work and your
Speaker 1: experience that you feel like make it difficult or act
Speaker 1: as a barrier to building community.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I would be remiss if having an
Speaker 2: opportunity to be on therapy for black girls. Who's a
Speaker 2: pioneering institution environ mental health. But also like naming that, like,
Speaker 2: you know, we got to talk about masculinity, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean? We got to talk about gender, right.
Speaker 2: I think about so many black women I know they
Speaker 2: are their husband's only friend, emotional confidant, and they are
Speaker 2: holding all of that, right, think about masculinity as a
Speaker 2: barrier because so many men and not just men, but
Speaker 2: many women and people are taught them only hold with
Speaker 2: this one person, and I hold them to hold all
Speaker 2: of my emotional labor right, And I feel that's one
Speaker 2: big barrier that I see happening the create community. I'll
Speaker 2: talk to some couples and I'm like, so does your
Speaker 2: husband have friends? Oh, I don't got no friends. I
Speaker 2: just talked to her about things. That's why. Well me
Speaker 2: and my boys, you know, So did you talk to
Speaker 2: your boy about when it's happened at work? And I
Speaker 2: will talk about that. Why, Well, I don't need to
Speaker 2: be talking about him with that. I'm just talking to
Speaker 2: my wife about that. Well, like, why is she the
Speaker 2: only person that's holding that. So there's a level of
Speaker 2: fear that gender and all these different places come into
Speaker 2: place of what does it mean to engage that and
Speaker 2: share more with the men in your life or the
Speaker 2: people other people in your life who might be friends.
Speaker 2: So we gotta look at gender as a barrier and
Speaker 2: encourage more men and masculine people to venture out into
Speaker 2: the world emotionally with your colleagues and your friends and
Speaker 2: take that labor off of so many Black women or
Speaker 2: holding that's solo and I have unrealistic expectations of holding that. Right,
Speaker 2: that's one piece of it too. You want to think
Speaker 2: about it with men, it goes to engage in what
Speaker 2: I call the father wound, right, because father or dad
Speaker 2: was never an emotional nurturer. So I never learned how
Speaker 2: to nurture and emotional spaces with men. Right. I never
Speaker 2: learned how to do that, and I don't do that.
Speaker 2: I don't try to do it because it's too much
Speaker 2: of a wound. But we got to start opening that
Speaker 2: up with gentleness and softness, engaging it because men are
Speaker 2: really lonely. And what's happening is that men are putting
Speaker 2: out that emotional labor and blame and unrealised expectations on
Speaker 2: women because of their loneliness and their despair emotionally. It's like, bro,
Speaker 2: you need to get in community of masculine people are
Speaker 2: men and figure this out and stop making black women
Speaker 2: have to do all this for you because you can't
Speaker 2: own anything for yourself.
Speaker 1: Now, this feels like a whole separate conversation. You're a lowe,
Speaker 1: But do you think that that has to happen in
Speaker 1: a community, maybe first with other men in masculine presenting folks,
Speaker 1: or is that like a mixed gender conversation.
Speaker 2: You know what's interesting. We have a program called Black
Speaker 2: masculinar Rey Imagined, and it's only for Black men and
Speaker 2: masculine folks, people who identify and kind of move into
Speaker 2: the world seene it's masculine. I am a big believer
Speaker 2: that black men and masculin folks may be doing that work,
Speaker 2: sometimes separate and sometimes in mixed gender spaces, because what
Speaker 2: I see happen if black women get into the space,
Speaker 2: black women start doing the labor for the men instinctively.
Speaker 2: It's just really quick, like all of a sudden, Oh well,
Speaker 2: let me help you. No, no, let him figure it out.
Speaker 2: Let him figure it out. He got it, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean. Because there's also there's a dynamic there
Speaker 2: right like you know what I mean. So I do
Speaker 2: believe that we need spaces with more Black men and
Speaker 2: masculine folks who are thinking, thoughtful about emotionally supporting each other,
Speaker 2: on learning patriarchy, and also believing black women from holding
Speaker 2: all the emotional labor they hold in our communities, whether
Speaker 2: it's the emotional labor raising the children, like there's a
Speaker 2: different dynamic there, like who's going to all process with
Speaker 2: your daughter and your son? Oh well she got it? No,
Speaker 2: no hold up? Take you behind and their dude, like
Speaker 2: you know what I mean? Like you know what I mean?
Speaker 2: Or like you know, just all those pieces that men
Speaker 2: in masking folks who don't engage that fear. And I
Speaker 2: think when they engage that fear of being betrayed or
Speaker 2: hurt by other men emotionally, it's going to free up
Speaker 2: and create so much space for black women to not
Speaker 2: have to hold that. And black women also have to
Speaker 2: learn how to step back from that too, because so
Speaker 2: many black women have been doing it for so long
Speaker 2: tint times. I literally been in workshops where sisters will
Speaker 2: be like, oh, I want to help them know, let
Speaker 2: them figure it out, step up to the plate because
Speaker 2: you on it. And also using that care to avoid
Speaker 2: the fact that Sis, you need support because you've been
Speaker 2: so busy being a caretaker. What's your care? So many
Speaker 2: Black women who need care who are hiding behind being
Speaker 2: the super caregivers. I'm like, Sis, but who took care
Speaker 2: of you emotionally? Who's holding that space for you? And
Speaker 2: I don't need nothing. And I was like, and I
Speaker 2: don't believe that. I refuse to believe that you don't
Speaker 2: have needs. I'm not going to engage in that misogynist
Speaker 2: live that black women don't have needs, that big Mama
Speaker 2: is okay, she don't need nothing. I don't believe that.
Speaker 2: And so we got to start saying that as black men,
Speaker 2: the people of all genders start saying that, actually, I
Speaker 2: don't believe that she don't got no needs, and I'm
Speaker 2: nothing to buy it to that. We're finna go over there,
Speaker 2: Let's see what's up right. You need something right, And
Speaker 2: so I think that there's all those layers that we
Speaker 2: have to engage too for our communities to really find
Speaker 2: more healing, support and more equilibrium.
Speaker 1: So you've offered already a beautiful affirmation. I will make
Speaker 1: time for the things that will resource me. And I'm
Speaker 1: gonna write that one on my wall. Are there other
Speaker 1: affirmations that you think would be helpful for people who
Speaker 1: are seeking or in the process of building community?
Speaker 2: That one of my time is huge, right. I think
Speaker 2: the other piece one that I've been saying to people
Speaker 2: lately that has really been interesting. People have resonated with
Speaker 2: it is that who am I to believe that I
Speaker 2: am not worthy of the care and love I give
Speaker 2: to others, you know? Or why do I think I'm
Speaker 2: not worthy of the same care and love I give
Speaker 2: to others a lot of caretakers. I was just in
Speaker 2: Montreal working with some caretakers and I had them do
Speaker 2: any affirmation, and the affirmation was, my care is not
Speaker 2: an afterthought. They have to repeat after it. My care
Speaker 2: is not an afterthought. My healing does not come last.
Speaker 2: I will not disrespect my ancestors by demeaning the care
Speaker 2: work that I give to the world. Right and so
Speaker 2: like those are call and repeat affirmations because I think
Speaker 2: that we have to speak to ourselves that truth that
Speaker 2: your care is not an afterthought, you don't come last.
Speaker 2: That's not acceptable, and that it's disrespectful to the sacred
Speaker 2: work we do, particularly talking about healers and wellness folks,
Speaker 2: or any kind of nurturing care, family work. It's just
Speaker 2: suspectful to think that that work is not worthy of care,
Speaker 2: that your body and your spirit is not worthy of care.
Speaker 2: So I want to invite people to think about that,
Speaker 2: to think about how arrogant it is to assume that
Speaker 2: you are above needing care. That's roan, that's so arrogance,
Speaker 2: Like you above it? Really you above it? Who are you?
Speaker 2: You are above that humanity? You're not a human? What
Speaker 2: does that mean? And so just encouraging folks who are
Speaker 2: listening to think about that. We all need care, we
Speaker 2: all need community. Community is messy, life is messy. If
Speaker 2: we lean into the mess and find our flow, we
Speaker 2: can manage it and smooth through it if we find
Speaker 2: our folks. But if we try to make the mess
Speaker 2: all by ourselves, it's lonely, it's sad, it's hard out
Speaker 2: of here. So we need each other. So and just
Speaker 2: remembering that we all have the power to heal. We
Speaker 2: all have the power to learn new skills, learn new behaviors,
Speaker 2: unlearned things. Just because your mom and your day to
Speaker 2: dayd don't mean that's the right way to do it. Now.
Speaker 2: Everything that is gentle and loving as a practice behaviorally
Speaker 2: go to do with whiteness. I hate people say its
Speaker 2: all time, not so white. I'm like, just so we'll
Speaker 2: have a reminder. White people culturally have destroyed most of
Speaker 2: the planets, Okay, I have literally there is nothing soft
Speaker 2: about white violence, capitalism, structurally like land missiles, like there's nothing.
Speaker 2: I don't know why y'all make that equification when we
Speaker 2: say we want to do care for our folks, like,
Speaker 2: oh I feel so white. I was like, does it?
Speaker 2: Because that's not this says a different story, you know.
Speaker 2: I want to get honest about it. So just really
Speaker 2: understanding practicing softness.
Speaker 1: And care of these Thank you so much for that, yoo,
Speaker 1: I really appreciate that. So where can people stay connected
Speaker 1: with you? And I believe can we download the community
Speaker 1: care map from the beam website.
Speaker 2: You sure can. So if you go Beam dot community
Speaker 2: across the front tap you see wellness tools and there
Speaker 2: are a lot of downloadable tools, toolkits, framing for how
Speaker 2: you can have conversations, framing for how to engaged a
Speaker 2: wellness our therapist practitioner, a lot of the stuff you
Speaker 2: can find there. Can also follow us at underscore beam
Speaker 2: org on Instagram. We do a lot on Instagram, but
Speaker 2: our website is ww dot bem dot community, so it's
Speaker 2: a dot community, not a dot com, and that's intentional
Speaker 2: because we want to build community. And you can follow
Speaker 2: me at Yoloachille dot com. I'm pretty sure I'm one
Speaker 2: person with that funny name, So y'all gonna find me
Speaker 2: while eloakil beautiful.
Speaker 1: We'll be sure to include all of that in the
Speaker 1: show notes. Thank you so much for spending some time
Speaker 1: with me today, Yolo.
Speaker 2: Thank you Jorce so much for all you do and
Speaker 2: for just what you're created from all of us.
Speaker 1: I'm so glad Yola was able to join me for
Speaker 1: this conversation. To learn more about their work with Beam,
Speaker 1: be sure to visit Therapy for Blackgirls dot com slash
Speaker 1: session three ninety five, and don't forget to text this
Speaker 1: episode to two of your girls right now and tell
Speaker 1: them to check it out. If you're looking for a
Speaker 1: therapist in your area, visit our therapist directory at Therapy
Speaker 1: for Blackgirls dot com slash directory. And if you want
Speaker 1: to continue digging into this topic or just being community
Speaker 1: with other sisters, come on over and join us in
Speaker 1: the Sister Circle. It's our cozy corner of the Internet
Speaker 1: designed just for black women. You can join us at
Speaker 1: community dot Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. This episode was
Speaker 1: produced by Elise Ellis and Tyree Rush. Editing was done
Speaker 1: by Dennison Bradford. Thank y'all so much for joining me
Speaker 1: again this week. I look forward to continuing this conversation
Speaker 1: with you all real soon. Take good care,