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Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Leftstets podcast. My

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Speaker 1: guest today is Dana Frank, President and CEO of First Avenue,

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Speaker 1: also president of the board of NIVA, the National Independent

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Speaker 1: Venue Association. So Dan and tell me about this new

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Speaker 1: legislation about ticketing, the Fans First Act.

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Speaker 2: Thanks, Bob, I'm excited to be here.

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Speaker 3: We have introduced at the end of twenty twenty three

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Speaker 3: the Fans First Act, led by Senators Cornyn and Kloeshar

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Speaker 3: with Senators Luhn, Welsh.

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Speaker 2: Wicker and Blackburn.

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Speaker 3: It's a real, no nonsense, no brainer ticketing legislation that

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Speaker 3: you know, attempts to get tickets into the hands of

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Speaker 3: real fans at fair prices and to cut down on

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Speaker 3: some of the predatory and deceptive practices and has some

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Speaker 3: transparent measures that everyone seems to like, like all in

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Speaker 3: pricing and reinforces the Bots Act, and is one step

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Speaker 3: of the puzzle that will go a long way towards

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Speaker 3: really protecting our fans and making sure that people who

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Speaker 3: want to go to the concerts actually get the tickets.

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Speaker 1: You say, one piece of the puzzle. What might the

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Speaker 1: other pieces be?

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Speaker 3: Oh, there's a number of different legislative solutions, you know,

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Speaker 3: in terms of ticketing, and you know, everyone after Taylor

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Speaker 3: Swift last year, seems to think they're an expert in ticketing,

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Speaker 3: and so a lot of folks had their own, you know, solutions,

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Speaker 3: you know. So this is what we think is a

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Speaker 3: bipartisan kind of no brainer, first.

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Speaker 2: Piece of the puzzle.

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Speaker 1: So tell me about some of the elements in the act, right.

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Speaker 3: So first, we have all in pricing with itemization, which

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Speaker 3: is important I think in our industry and with the

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Speaker 3: artist groups, so that fans know, yes, what is the

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Speaker 3: total price they're going to pay for the ticket, but

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Speaker 3: also what are the fees and you know, what's the

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Speaker 3: face value and what's the artist charging for the tickets.

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Speaker 3: And then we also have some protections against predatory and

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Speaker 3: deceptive practices like I deceptive websites and folks that are

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Speaker 3: creating Facebook groups, you know, kind of presuming that they're

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Speaker 3: the official ticket sellers or the artists when they're not.

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Speaker 3: We have some reinforcements to the Bots Act.

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Speaker 2: We have.

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Speaker 3: An opt in solution so when people buy on the

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Speaker 3: secondary market that they can opt in to receive communications

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Speaker 3: from the artists and from the ticket sellers directly. So

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Speaker 3: in terms of canceled shows or moved times. You know,

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Speaker 3: it's a huge problem where we're hosting a show, we

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Speaker 3: don't know sometimes forty to fifty percent of the ticket

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Speaker 3: buyers who are actually coming to the show, so we

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Speaker 3: have no way of communicating any kind of changes in

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Speaker 3: the shows with them. And so we also have a

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Speaker 3: study that would go more in depth into some of

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Speaker 3: the other issues within ticketing, like you know, how many

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Speaker 3: how many tickets that are resold on the secondary market,

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Speaker 3: how many of those are by brokers, and how many

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Speaker 3: of those are by folks that just can't get a

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Speaker 3: babysitter and can't go to the show.

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Speaker 1: Okay, let's try to drill a little deeper. So in

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Speaker 1: terms of deceptive advertising, let's say your tickets are on

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Speaker 1: ticket Master. Just to make it simple, when you Google frequently,

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Speaker 1: that's not the first hit you get something from a

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Speaker 1: broker or something. So how would this legislation address that

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Speaker 1: if at all?

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Speaker 3: Yep, Yeah, So it has a ban on using IP

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Speaker 3: either venue or artist or promoter IP in organic search

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Speaker 3: and advertising and promotion. So you know, if sometimes you'll

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Speaker 3: Google and you'll see the venue or the official website.

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Speaker 3: Sometimes it comes down even on like the second page

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Speaker 3: of Google and so the first six, seven and eight

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Speaker 3: hits are all resellers. And so this would say in

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Speaker 3: organic searches, promotions marketing, things like those Facebook groups that

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Speaker 3: folks create and say, oh, get your official tickets here, Well,

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Speaker 3: that wouldn't be allowed anymore. And there's pretty stiff penalties

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Speaker 3: when it comes to enforcing the act so that it

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Speaker 3: actually is 'enforceable.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk very practically. So now I'm searching for tickets,

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Speaker 1: will I see the authorized reseller first? Or is it

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Speaker 1: just that the other ones it will be clearer that

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Speaker 1: their secondary market? What will I actually see if I'm

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Speaker 1: a relatively unsophisticated buyer.

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Speaker 3: So you will still see the Google ad words the

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Speaker 3: purchased words first, and so that might be a secondary seller. However,

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Speaker 3: if you know, I don't want to presume that everybody

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Speaker 3: has their SEO optimization down, but the first or second

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Speaker 3: should be the official seller below that adds the purchase ads.

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Speaker 1: Okay, tell us a little bit more about secondaries not

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Speaker 1: being able to use primary ip.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so things like like I said, those Facebook groups,

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Speaker 3: or things like using the venue name to advertise or

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Speaker 3: the artist's name to advertise you know, we have to

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Speaker 3: allow for them to actually advertise what it is they're selling, right,

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Speaker 3: they have to be able to use that name. But

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Speaker 3: in terms of like advertising and promotions, that would.

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Speaker 2: Not be allowable.

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Speaker 1: Can you give me an example.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, if they're sending out an email blast

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Speaker 3: in the header, it's like buy all of your first

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Speaker 3: avenue tickets here, right, So what would be allowable is

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Speaker 3: like a ligne listing and a description of the actual product,

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Speaker 3: but not the use of that IP in overall marketing

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Speaker 3: and promotions.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Now you talked about enforcement, about the previous Botch

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Speaker 1: Act enforcement there and what would be different today.

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Speaker 3: Right, So you know what when we first started thinking

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Speaker 3: about legislative solutions for ticketing issues, what we heard really

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Speaker 3: clearly is there has to be pretty stiff monetary penalties

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Speaker 3: because anyone from state ags to official you know, government officials,

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Speaker 3: without financial penalties, there's very little motivation or resources to

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Speaker 3: go after a perpetrator. So we have in the bill,

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Speaker 3: it's believed, don't quote me on this, I believe it's

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Speaker 3: one thousand dollars a day up to ten thousand dollars

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Speaker 3: per ticket for the violation. And so that's a pretty stiff.

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Speaker 3: So if you're looking at the a violation of an

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Speaker 3: overall website with thousands of tickets, that number gets to

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Speaker 3: be pretty pretty strict pretty quickly.

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Speaker 1: Okay, It's one thing to have the law on the books,

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Speaker 1: it's another thing to have it enforced. You know, in

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Speaker 1: terms of crime, usually ticketing is far from the top.

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Speaker 1: So what would ensure that law enforcement would actually act

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Speaker 1: on this?

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Speaker 2: That is a great question.

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Speaker 3: I think it's going to be the loud voice of

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Speaker 3: our industry having this law and having the financial penalties

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Speaker 3: and having you know, also in the law there's a

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Speaker 3: website that anyone can go to report the violations and

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Speaker 3: really making.

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Speaker 2: Sure that it is enforced.

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Speaker 3: But that's certainly been an issue with every piece of

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Speaker 3: ticketing legislation that's passed.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so what is the status of the bill down.

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Speaker 3: Yep, So we introduced at the end of December. Excited

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Speaker 3: to get it introduced. Timing wise, it was like right

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Speaker 3: before the recess. So we're actively securing co sponsors. We

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Speaker 3: have a number of whom in the hopper and are

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Speaker 3: you know, really excited by the momentum and hopefully we'll

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Speaker 3: be able to introduce the new co sponsor soon. And

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Speaker 3: there's also a piece of legislation in the House called

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Speaker 3: the Ticket Act that has the similar provisions of the

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Speaker 3: Fans First Act. And also, I forgot to mention spec

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Speaker 3: tickets everybody, I think in the industry. You know, if

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Speaker 3: you don't know what a spec ticket is, it's when

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Speaker 3: they astronomical amounts on the secondary markets twenty thousand dollars,

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Speaker 3: ten thousand dollars, maybe even one hundred dollars.

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Speaker 2: But it's when.

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Speaker 3: Somebody has posted a ticket for sale that doesn't actually

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Speaker 3: exist yet, right they're posted before the actual on sale

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Speaker 3: or in seats that don't exist, et cetera. So this

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Speaker 3: would actually make the practice of spec tickets illegal. It

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Speaker 3: would allow for a concierge service, which would allow for

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Speaker 3: a consumer, if they can't get online at you know,

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Speaker 3: Tuesday at ten am, to be able to come out

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Speaker 3: quote unquote hire a broker such to go and secure

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Speaker 3: the tickets for them. But the listings would have to

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Speaker 3: be separately from tickets, the pricing would have to delineate

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Speaker 3: between the sur and the ticket fee. And so excited,

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Speaker 3: very excited to ban this much hated practice.

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Speaker 1: Okay, let's go back. You know you're very familiar with

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Speaker 1: the legislative process. Many people are not. Let's go back

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Speaker 1: to the beginning and with Klobatar, who's your state senator, Minnesota?

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Speaker 1: How did this legislation come to be?

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Speaker 3: So we started seeing after reopening, I would end of

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Speaker 3: twenty twenty one, really beginning of twenty twenty two, amongst

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Speaker 3: the NEVA folks that are drop rates just weren't really recovering.

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Speaker 1: Wait with just a little bit slower because there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of things going on. Tell us about NIVA.

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Speaker 3: Sure So, NIVA as the National Independent Venue Association, we

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Speaker 3: came together late March early April after the COVID shutdowns

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Speaker 3: had completely you know, ended our business and our ability

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Speaker 3: to generate any revenue whatsoever, and we banded together both

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Speaker 3: for knowledge sharing and community and trauma bonding as people

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Speaker 3: would say, but also to pass legislation that would allow

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Speaker 3: us the resources to ensure that we're able to reopen

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Speaker 3: when it was safe to do so. We have, I believe,

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Speaker 3: about twelve hundred members in every state, every congressional district,

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Speaker 3: ranging from you know, fifty capacity coffee shops all the

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Speaker 3: way up to amphitheaters and independent venues that generate the

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Speaker 3: majority of the revenue by selling tickets.

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Speaker 2: That's the qualifications.

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Speaker 1: Okay, how did you end up being the president of

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Speaker 1: the board.

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Speaker 2: That is a great question.

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Speaker 3: I maybe because no one else wanted to do it.

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Speaker 3: I was the one that was really passionate about a

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Speaker 3: federal bill and kind of led the charge on the

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Speaker 3: advocacy effort. And because advocacy really was the first, second,

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Speaker 3: and third priority, you know, realizing that there would be

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Speaker 3: no venues in which to have an association if we

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Speaker 3: didn't get this bill passed. The four other folks that

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Speaker 3: were on the board elected me president.

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Speaker 1: Okay, let's go back. You're sitting at home, lockdown, there

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Speaker 1: are no shows. Tell me about the genesis of Neva

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Speaker 1: and your role in it.

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Speaker 3: So it was actually Reverend Moose and Marauder that called

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Speaker 3: folks together on a town hall I think the first.

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Speaker 3: The first one was actually a conference call. I don't

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Speaker 3: even know if anyone knew what Zoom was yet, and

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Speaker 3: it was I believe, a end of February, first week

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Speaker 3: of March, to just hear from from folks in Europe

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Speaker 3: what they were seeing and really kind of give a

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Speaker 3: warning signal. And so I started joining those early calls

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Speaker 3: and then when it went to zoom, seeing the other

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Speaker 3: faces on there and realizing that, you know, these are

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Speaker 3: all people with families, with lives, with houses, with obligations,

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Speaker 3: and we were all going to be out of work

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Speaker 3: and in severe debt with absolutely no way to repay

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Speaker 3: any of our obligations unless we did something about it.

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Speaker 1: Now to what deg we Was there an organization prior

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Speaker 1: to this amongst the independents?

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Speaker 2: Oh, there was no organization.

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Speaker 3: I think, you know, people they would talk about with

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Speaker 3: very you know, with guards up.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 3: I kind of made it a habit whenever I traveled,

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Speaker 3: I would always reach out to the independent promoter, the

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Speaker 3: club owner in town, just to get a tour and

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Speaker 3: just to try to learn from them and see what

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Speaker 3: they're doing. And I feel like I was always greeted

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Speaker 3: with a little bit of like, are you coming into

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Speaker 3: my city?

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Speaker 2: What do you want to talk to me for?

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Speaker 3: And so there was certainly a lot of we knew

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Speaker 3: about each other, but I don't think there was a

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Speaker 3: lot of you know, knowledge sharing or real kind of

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Speaker 3: deep community amongst them.

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Speaker 2: And that changed real fast.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so now everybody's on a zoom. How do you

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Speaker 1: organize and how do you set an agenda.

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Speaker 3: Very messily. Those early meetings were they were pretty frantic,

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Speaker 3: pretty desperate, and the way it came together it really

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Speaker 3: self organized. And I think when you're in a situation

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Speaker 3: that is, you know a little bit like war, a

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Speaker 3: little bit like there's no alternative. It really people really

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Speaker 3: wanted to help and there wasn't a whole lot of

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Speaker 3: you know, arguments or dissension dissensions. It really was like, Okay,

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Speaker 3: we need to do this.

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Speaker 2: Who's going to do it? Great, you're going to do it.

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Speaker 2: And also, you.

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Speaker 3: Know, again kudos to Rever Moose who was our early

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Speaker 3: executive director and how real from World Cafe.

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Speaker 1: Why don't you tell people who he is?

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Speaker 3: He has a marketing firm out of New York called Marauder,

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Speaker 3: and he was he brought Independent Venue Week across from

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Speaker 3: the UK, and so he was the just again the

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Speaker 3: perfect person to really gather everybody because he didn't have

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Speaker 3: a venue so wasn't seen, you know, as a competitor,

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Speaker 3: but also was already in communication with all the independent

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Speaker 3: venues in town due to independent Venueek.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so now everybody's talking, how do you set the agenda?

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Speaker 3: So really it's centered around we need to get this

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Speaker 3: bill passed. Okay, what do we need to do to

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Speaker 3: get a bill passed?

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Speaker 1: Well, well, a little bit slower. So I mean, I

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Speaker 1: remember being on the email thread and basically it's about

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Speaker 1: getting money to the venues and the people who worked there.

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Speaker 1: But how did you decide you were going to have legislation,

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Speaker 1: How did you decide what was going to be in

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Speaker 1: the legislation, How did you decide who's going to be

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Speaker 1: the first mover.

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Speaker 3: So we weren't even thinking legislation at the beginning. We

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Speaker 3: were just thinking, Okay, there's going to be another Care's bill.

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Speaker 3: We want to get in that Cares bill because we

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Speaker 3: had read the first Cares bill and saw, oh wait,

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Speaker 3: there's a separate provision for restaurants.

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Speaker 2: So that's how we knew it was possible.

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Speaker 3: We're like, if they're doing something for restaurants, they can

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Speaker 3: do something for venues because we don't have takeout. You know,

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Speaker 3: they went down thirty forty percent, we were down to

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Speaker 3: zero percent. So we're like, we need something in that bill. Okay,

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Speaker 3: how do you get something in a bill? You got

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Speaker 3: to hire a lobbyist. So I called around to the folks.

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Speaker 1: I knew who might be well, wha, wha, wha, whoa

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Speaker 1: a little bit slower. How did you become the point person?

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Speaker 2: I think I was. I that's a really good question.

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Speaker 3: Maybe just because I was super passionate and you know,

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Speaker 3: making a lot of the calls and had a vision

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Speaker 3: and was determined to really get this thing done, and

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Speaker 3: so just I think de facto fell into that role

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Speaker 3: of quarterback.

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Speaker 1: Oh okay, So basically everybody did they say, Dana, you go,

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Speaker 1: or all all of a sudden, everybody's doing different stuff

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Speaker 1: and they said, well, Dana's doing stuff, let's fall behind her.

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Speaker 2: I think at that time, no one really knew what

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Speaker 2: to do.

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Speaker 3: So when somebody came, you know, with a plan and

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Speaker 3: with Okay, this is what we're going to do, it

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Speaker 3: really you know again, like I said, everybody was really

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Speaker 3: willing to contribute and willing to contribute where they were

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Speaker 3: needed and with what was necessary at the time. From

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Speaker 3: the initial IVW meetings, there were five of us that

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Speaker 3: were elected to the board, and so each of us

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Speaker 3: had I think, different interests, and like I said, my

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Speaker 3: interest was in advocacy and in getting some federal support

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Speaker 3: for the venues, and so I became the Advocacy Chair,

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Speaker 3: and we took from the initial emails of people that

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Speaker 3: signed up for NIVA, through again the great leadership of

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Speaker 3: Audrey Fick Schaeffer and Gary Witt, I just sent a

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Speaker 3: mass email to anyone who said they were interested in lobbying,

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Speaker 3: and so we formed the Advocacy Committee, and then we

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Speaker 3: broke it down into states because part of the idea

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Speaker 3: behind going for federal support was, you know, at First Avenue,

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Speaker 3: we know what we mean in Minnesota, and we know

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Speaker 3: the relationships we have locally. You know, we have had

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Speaker 3: nothing federally, but we knew locally help beloved and how

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Speaker 3: people would be really, really interested and anxious to help us.

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Speaker 3: And so we just said, you know, there's First Avenues

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Speaker 3: in every city that had these kinds of relationships. So

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Speaker 3: we broke it down into a priest and captain system

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Speaker 3: and said, Okay, you know, we'll have a few of

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Speaker 3: us that are kind of overseeing the national strategy, but everybody.

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Speaker 2: On the ground.

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Speaker 3: The really main commitment was to get your local congress

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Speaker 3: person and your senator invested in our cause and.

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Speaker 2: Wanting to help us.

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Speaker 1: So how did you end up hiring a lobbyist?

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Speaker 3: We got very early financial support from ce tickets. We

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Speaker 3: had nothing, right, We had a lot of people and

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Speaker 3: a lot of people with time and willingness to work,

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Speaker 3: but we had no resources whatsoever. So we got some

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Speaker 3: early financial support. There were about six of us that

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Speaker 3: gathered as the you know, kind of de facto selection

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Speaker 3: or search committee.

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Speaker 2: We each kind of reached out to people that we knew.

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Speaker 3: I mean, you know, at the beginning, I can't really

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Speaker 3: kind of overstate how how frantic and how hard everyone

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Speaker 3: worked and what just kind of a.

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Speaker 2: Desperate time it was.

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Speaker 3: But it was like, okay, we need a federal lobbyist.

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Speaker 3: I called to the you know, kind of bigger promoters

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Speaker 3: that I thought might be doing something in DC. No

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Speaker 3: one had a federal lobbyist. So I was like, wait,

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Speaker 3: I don't know anyone in DC. I'm from Minnesota.

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Speaker 2: What am I going to do?

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Speaker 3: And I'm like, wait, then, I'm thirty club And so

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Speaker 3: I happened to have been sitting next to Audrey Fixschaeffer

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Speaker 3: at a dinner a few nights a few months before

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Speaker 3: and just sent her a Facebook message saying, Hey, you're

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Speaker 3: a DC do you know a lobbyist? So, you know,

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Speaker 3: she joined up and and we really just you know again,

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Speaker 3: everybody reached into their networks, came up with the names

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Speaker 3: that we could find, and I think are the lobbyist

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Speaker 3: that we found Ach and Gump the best, Casey Higgins

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Speaker 3: and it began the best lobbyist in the entire world.

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Speaker 3: We found them because somebody on a group chain I

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Speaker 3: was in said that Paul Ryan's office was giving PPP advice.

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Speaker 3: So I was like, well, I can't call Paul Paul

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Speaker 3: Ryan's office. I'm from Minneapolis, but I know somebody from Milwaukee.

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Speaker 3: So Gary Witt, you know, called up Paul Ryan's office

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Speaker 3: and was referred to Casey Higgins. Uh, and that's how

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Speaker 3: we we got to Casey.

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Speaker 1: Tell us about Casey and his firm.

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Speaker 2: Mm. Her firm is.

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Speaker 3: No, No, So they're a huge, you know top I

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Speaker 3: don't know that much about law firms, but a top

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Speaker 3: firm and really became invested in our cause.

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Speaker 2: And I think how.

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Speaker 1: Pastora law firm lobbying firm, Well.

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Speaker 3: The the lobbyists are are lawyers, so it's a law

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Speaker 3: firm that also has us.

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Speaker 1: So all the lobbyists are lawyers.

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Speaker 3: I might be overstating that, but I believe most of

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Speaker 3: the major lobbying firms are law firms.

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Speaker 1: Okay, and so this law firm they're representing NIVA. How

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Speaker 1: many other clients do they have?

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Speaker 2: Oh?

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Speaker 3: Oh a hundreds? But thank god the conflict check checked out.

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Speaker 3: So that was very fortunate for us.

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Speaker 1: And so then what kind of an agreement do you

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Speaker 1: make with the lobbying firm?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, So we had a monthly retainer and they

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Speaker 3: got to work immediately, I think from our first call,

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Speaker 3: you know, really guiding the strategy and setting out how

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Speaker 3: we were going to tell our stories. I I'll never forget.

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Speaker 3: You know, they did a lobbying one oh one for

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Speaker 3: NIVA members, like how to talk to your member of Congress,

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Speaker 3: you know, because most folks had never been involved in

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Speaker 3: anything like this. You know, we're used to hosting fundraisers

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Speaker 3: maybe you know, talking to our city council people, but

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Speaker 3: you know, in terms of federal lobbying, it was all new.

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Speaker 1: So, okay, how do you talk to a congress person,

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Speaker 1: you know, like a real person.

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Speaker 2: It would it's pretty surprising.

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Speaker 3: And sharing our stories and I was going to say fortunately,

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Speaker 3: but really it's unfortunately. You know, we had kind of

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Speaker 3: the most authentic SOB story of all sab stories. You know,

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Speaker 3: during the pandemic, people were cashing out there for one case,

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Speaker 3: they were.

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Speaker 2: Remortgaging their houses.

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Speaker 3: They were doing everything imaginable and anything they could to

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Speaker 3: just try to hang on one more month, two more months.

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Speaker 3: So you know, those were the stories that we told.

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Speaker 3: And on top of that the impact that we have

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Speaker 3: in our communities, and we were, you know, really fortunate

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Speaker 3: that we had built. You know, almost every independent venue

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Speaker 3: has built really strong, deep rooted community relationships. So you know,

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Speaker 3: I was on a call with a congress person from

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Speaker 3: rural or yeah, the valley in California, and so it

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Speaker 3: wasn't just the historic theater on the call. It was

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Speaker 3: also the director of the Chamber of Commerce, and the

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Speaker 3: local hotel and the restaurant next door, and they were

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Speaker 3: all advocating for saveer stages and for helping the theater

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Speaker 3: because without the theater they wouldn't have any business either.

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Speaker 1: Okay, you go to the lobbying firm, we hear all

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Speaker 1: the time that the lobbying firm writes the legislation. Is

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Speaker 1: that what happened?

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Speaker 3: I think the staffers wrote the the staffers wrote the legislation, but.

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Speaker 1: The lobbying firm of the staffers for the elected officials.

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Speaker 3: The Senate officials. Yeah, yeah, the Senate staffers.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so you have lobbying one on one from the

408
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Speaker 1: lobby firm you hire, and do they tell everybody in

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Speaker 1: NEEDA to talk to their people? Do they say what

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Speaker 1: the agenda is?

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Speaker 2: Right?

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Speaker 3: So we organized into a precinct captain system. So the

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Speaker 3: folks that initially had said they were interested in lobbying

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Speaker 3: the we all joined on. I think we were talking

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Speaker 3: three times a week. We were in constant communication, and

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Speaker 3: so there was one kind of leader for every state

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Speaker 3: or district. So we had like you know, Northern California

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Speaker 3: and Southern California, and those folks were responsible for coordinating

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Speaker 3: amongst all of the NEVA venues in their district. So

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Speaker 3: you know, it'd be pretty hard to have a thousand

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Speaker 3: people on a call trying to stay organized and stay productive.

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Speaker 3: So you know, we again, we had more of a

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Speaker 3: structured system. So we would talk to you know, Gen

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Speaker 3: Lyons in New York and then she would coordinate with

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Speaker 3: all the New York venues to go in and talk

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Speaker 3: to Senator Schumer or Senator Deliveran.

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Speaker 2: That's how we organized.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Okay, very practically. You have these precinct captains. You

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Speaker 1: then want to hit every member of Congress and you

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Speaker 1: want to tell them what story. You just want to say,

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Speaker 1: give me money or do you go over there with

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Speaker 1: an agenda? We needed x y Q.

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Speaker 2: YEP.

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Speaker 3: I believe we hit ninety five percent of members of Congress.

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Speaker 3: I think we even had a representative from Guam. So

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Speaker 3: we you know, our motto is no stone left unturned,

437
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Speaker 3: because it's you know, easy to sit here in twenty

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Speaker 3: twenty four and look back and say, oh, of course

439
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Speaker 3: we were going to get.

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Speaker 2: The bill we had.

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Speaker 3: There was no assurances whatsoever that we were going to

442
00:24:56,160 --> 00:25:00,800
Speaker 3: get anything, and so we left literally no stone unturned.

443
00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:02,840
Speaker 3: If there was anyone to talk to, we would talk

444
00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:07,040
Speaker 3: to them. I think one one of our members actually

445
00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:10,400
Speaker 3: found out the running route of her senator and put

446
00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:13,879
Speaker 3: up yard signs along the running route to get his attention.

447
00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:18,159
Speaker 3: And so, yeah, we went in and the kind of

448
00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:20,880
Speaker 3: a gender or strategy we followed was, you know, tell

449
00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:26,040
Speaker 3: your personal story, tell your economic impact. Gary Witt from

450
00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:31,160
Speaker 3: Pop Theater Group in Milwaukee had, you know, came initially

451
00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:33,560
Speaker 3: with a staff that he had read in a Chicago

452
00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:38,159
Speaker 3: paper really recently before the pandemic shutdown said one dollar

453
00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:42,200
Speaker 3: of every at one dollar spent on a ticket in

454
00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:46,679
Speaker 3: a small venue equaled twelve dollars of economic impact. So

455
00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:50,080
Speaker 3: we used that stat it was it was done, you know,

456
00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:53,359
Speaker 3: an official study by the Chicago Loop, so it was documented.

457
00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:56,480
Speaker 3: We didn't we didn't make it up, but we used

458
00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:59,360
Speaker 3: that number to measure our economic impact and went in

459
00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:02,199
Speaker 3: with not only just our personal stories of like, this

460
00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:04,600
Speaker 3: is how long I've been in business, this is you

461
00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:06,760
Speaker 3: know how much I've mortgaged on my house, this is

462
00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:10,879
Speaker 3: how many employees I have, but also you know, this

463
00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:15,080
Speaker 3: was my economic impact. This is what I've generated in

464
00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:17,760
Speaker 3: revenue and jobs for my community.

465
00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:21,359
Speaker 1: Okay, so you go when you hit all these congress people,

466
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:24,680
Speaker 1: are you just telling a story or do you say

467
00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:25,760
Speaker 1: we want X?

468
00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:30,040
Speaker 3: We always had an ask that was rule rule number

469
00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:32,480
Speaker 3: one is you know, you go and you tell your story,

470
00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:36,240
Speaker 3: but there's always an end with will you sign our letter?

471
00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:40,399
Speaker 3: Will you co sponsor our legislation? Will you if you've

472
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:43,920
Speaker 3: already co sponsored, will you call to people and help

473
00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:47,600
Speaker 3: convince them to co sponsor? You know, always leaving with

474
00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:49,800
Speaker 3: a tangible way that somebody can help us.

475
00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:54,560
Speaker 1: How does it turn from a want hiring the lobbying

476
00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:58,280
Speaker 1: firm to an actual piece of legislation. When you're saying

477
00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:01,200
Speaker 1: will you sign our legislation, we're just legislation come from.

478
00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:07,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was actually the senators we sent out you

479
00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:10,400
Speaker 3: know again along with like there's there's so many industry partners,

480
00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:12,359
Speaker 3: and thank you again to everyone.

481
00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:12,760
Speaker 2: Everyone.

482
00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:15,120
Speaker 3: I feel like listening to this probably helped in some way.

483
00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:20,440
Speaker 3: So we just again, we first sent a letter just saying, hey,

484
00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:21,640
Speaker 3: in Congress, we need help.

485
00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:22,680
Speaker 2: We're totally shut down.

486
00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:25,000
Speaker 3: The only thing that's going to get us through is

487
00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:30,000
Speaker 3: you to you know, doing a dear colleague letter. So

488
00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:33,800
Speaker 3: we had I think forty nine senators send a letter

489
00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:37,280
Speaker 3: to leadership saying, hey, leadership, you should take these guys seriously.

490
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:40,320
Speaker 3: And then there was a bill that was introduced by

491
00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:45,640
Speaker 3: Senators Bennett and Young called the Restart Act that would

492
00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:53,320
Speaker 3: help businesses disproportionately disadvantaged. So you know, our you know,

493
00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:59,280
Speaker 3: our thought process was that PPP helped all businesses equally. Well,

494
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:02,520
Speaker 3: we were the most disadvantaged. We had no revenue, We

495
00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:06,120
Speaker 3: needed more help than other businesses, and so Restart actually

496
00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:09,680
Speaker 3: had a formula that it would help give you grants

497
00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:12,120
Speaker 3: based on how much your revenue is down.

498
00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:12,840
Speaker 2: So we love that.

499
00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:15,080
Speaker 3: So we're like, okay, this is we're going to advocate

500
00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:17,919
Speaker 3: for this bill. So we had all the NIVA members

501
00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:21,120
Speaker 3: sent emails out to their email lists, you know, saying hey,

502
00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:24,280
Speaker 3: you can email your senators this way, and along with

503
00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:27,000
Speaker 3: some industry partners that also sent emails out to their

504
00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:30,400
Speaker 3: email list, we ended up getting two point two million

505
00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:32,120
Speaker 3: emails into Congress.

506
00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:33,200
Speaker 2: It was just an.

507
00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:38,880
Speaker 3: Unreal level of support from our customers and concert goers.

508
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:42,320
Speaker 3: And so when those emails started flooding into the offices,

509
00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:45,040
Speaker 3: all of a sudden, we started getting a lot of attention,

510
00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:49,400
Speaker 3: and Senators Corny and clobush Are actually said okay, I

511
00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:51,760
Speaker 3: think it's time for your own bill, and so we

512
00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:54,880
Speaker 3: didn't again this it was our dream of all dreams,

513
00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:56,960
Speaker 3: but it was generated by them.

514
00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:02,600
Speaker 1: Okay, how does it work with the Senate visa VI

515
00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:03,240
Speaker 1: the House?

516
00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:05,640
Speaker 3: Oh?

517
00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:09,720
Speaker 2: Great question. So it has to pass both houses.

518
00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:13,200
Speaker 3: I'm trying to remember my what was the Schoolhouse rock?

519
00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:15,560
Speaker 3: How a bill becomes a law. So the bill has

520
00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:18,920
Speaker 3: to pass both houses. So we introduced in the Senate first,

521
00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:21,280
Speaker 3: and then we had a House companion that was the

522
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:25,280
Speaker 3: same bill, and so when they both passed, then it

523
00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:26,600
Speaker 3: goes to the President's office.

524
00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:29,560
Speaker 1: Okay, sometimes the bills are different and there has to

525
00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:32,680
Speaker 1: be some kind of reconciliation. That was not a factor here.

526
00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:36,680
Speaker 3: So we actually didn't We didn't pass as a standalone bill.

527
00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:40,000
Speaker 3: We passed as part of the package. So the package

528
00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:43,320
Speaker 3: passed the Senate and then I believe it passed the House,

529
00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:46,360
Speaker 3: but the inclusion was similar. And I'm having to really

530
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:50,920
Speaker 3: stretch into my memory. So yeah, it was end of

531
00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:54,080
Speaker 3: December that it ended up. The package ended up going.

532
00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:57,400
Speaker 4: Through December of twenty twenty.

533
00:29:57,680 --> 00:29:59,920
Speaker 1: Right, did you get what you wanted?

534
00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:05,480
Speaker 3: App? I mean we're still in business right as The

535
00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:10,040
Speaker 3: ultimate test and how successful this legislation was is that,

536
00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:13,840
Speaker 3: you know, we had very few NIVA members closed for

537
00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:18,840
Speaker 3: financial purposes and folks are still around to reopen and

538
00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:19,720
Speaker 3: to fight another day.

539
00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:25,200
Speaker 1: Okay, just to drill down, what did first Avenue get

540
00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:28,600
Speaker 1: from PPP and what did you get from Save our Stages?

541
00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:34,920
Speaker 3: I don't remember the exact numbers. I think amongst our

542
00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:38,000
Speaker 3: six venues we got around ten million I believe from

543
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:39,240
Speaker 3: the Save our Stages grants.

544
00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:42,480
Speaker 1: Well, let me ask you a different way. You have venues,

545
00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:48,240
Speaker 1: they have operating costs, you have employees. What did PPP cover.

546
00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:53,479
Speaker 3: Oh, PPP covered maybe a month, maybe maybe two months

547
00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:57,920
Speaker 3: of our operating expenses, Like it was very insubstantial.

548
00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:02,720
Speaker 1: Then when you got save our State ages, what personage

549
00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:04,680
Speaker 1: did it cover that or did it just allow you

550
00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:06,840
Speaker 1: to keep the doors open so to speak.

551
00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:10,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was able to cover our expenses.

552
00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:15,120
Speaker 3: You know, going back, we were closed eighteen months and

553
00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:20,040
Speaker 3: it allowed us to reopen and rehire. You know, rehiring

554
00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:25,280
Speaker 3: and reopening is you know, ungodly amounts of expenses. We

555
00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:28,280
Speaker 3: didn't have any employees, right, you have to go through

556
00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:31,520
Speaker 3: all of the onboarding process, all the rehiring process, all

557
00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:37,000
Speaker 3: the cleaning processes, the new filters, some other like you know,

558
00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:40,360
Speaker 3: improvements to the room due to COVID et cetera. And

559
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:42,400
Speaker 3: so it allowed us to do that and to then

560
00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:45,800
Speaker 3: also when we first came back, there were you know,

561
00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:49,640
Speaker 3: there were some losses you know, in the first few

562
00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:51,840
Speaker 3: months of opening that allowed us to cover that.

563
00:31:52,720 --> 00:32:01,240
Speaker 1: Okay, So between PPP and Save our Stages, the people

564
00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:04,160
Speaker 1: lose money, break even or make money.

565
00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:09,840
Speaker 3: Well, the way the formula worked is you were only

566
00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:15,120
Speaker 3: allowed to spend your spend the money on operating expenses.

567
00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:17,240
Speaker 3: There's no way to quote unquote make money.

568
00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:19,080
Speaker 2: You know, you have.

569
00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:22,840
Speaker 3: To show the SBA the receipts of what you spent

570
00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:27,360
Speaker 3: your money on. So I mean, unless there's no you know,

571
00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:30,800
Speaker 3: ethical or realistic way to just kind of pocket money.

572
00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:31,040
Speaker 4: Right.

573
00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:34,000
Speaker 3: In fact, fifty percent of people are still closing out there,

574
00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:35,640
Speaker 3: save our stages grants.

575
00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:38,800
Speaker 1: So how hard was it to actually get the money

576
00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:40,480
Speaker 1: in your account?

577
00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:43,160
Speaker 2: Fucking impossible.

578
00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:45,880
Speaker 3: I mean it was, you know, we pad that bill

579
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:51,000
Speaker 3: passed and end of December twenty twenty. Some people might

580
00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:53,760
Speaker 3: remember this, there was you know, Trump wasn't going to

581
00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:56,240
Speaker 3: sign the bill. There was maybe three days of just

582
00:32:56,320 --> 00:33:01,120
Speaker 3: absolute you know, heart stopping, continued panic, and then then

583
00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:04,560
Speaker 3: he ended up signing it and it became law. So

584
00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:08,120
Speaker 3: we were thinking, okay, SBA, will you know, get the

585
00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:12,320
Speaker 3: website up maybe mid February at the latest. Well, March

586
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:15,719
Speaker 3: came along and they still you know, didn't have a website.

587
00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:20,280
Speaker 3: We had to go, you know, reach out to our champions,

588
00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:23,800
Speaker 3: reach out to the White House Economic Council to really

589
00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:28,200
Speaker 3: get them to open up the scrint and help them understand,

590
00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:30,440
Speaker 3: like there was a time when people didn't think the

591
00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:33,480
Speaker 3: bill was real, right, They didn't because they didn't have

592
00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:35,600
Speaker 3: the money in their account. They just thought, oh, it's

593
00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:38,120
Speaker 3: all you know, it's all a mirage. There's never going

594
00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:40,520
Speaker 3: to be any money coming. And in the meantime, the

595
00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:43,640
Speaker 3: Restaurant Revitalization Act passed, they were able to get their

596
00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:45,080
Speaker 3: money out the door. I think it was a much

597
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:50,200
Speaker 3: simpler equation. So they got their money out the door.

598
00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:54,880
Speaker 3: I think maybe even earlier than we did. So mid April,

599
00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:55,920
Speaker 3: the website went up.

600
00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:57,000
Speaker 2: The website crashed.

601
00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:01,840
Speaker 3: There was a sentiment amongst the industry, including the performing

602
00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:04,520
Speaker 3: arts folks and the museums, that there wasn't going to

603
00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:07,160
Speaker 3: be enough money in the bill. So we went back

604
00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:10,719
Speaker 3: to Congress and got more money added. And so then

605
00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:14,600
Speaker 3: when it finally opened the end of April, the approval process,

606
00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:18,680
Speaker 3: because the restrictions were so stringent, you know, you had

607
00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:20,520
Speaker 3: to prove that you sold tickets, you had to prove

608
00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:23,359
Speaker 3: that you had a PA, you had to prove your

609
00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:26,680
Speaker 3: revenues for the past few years. You know. I think

610
00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:28,640
Speaker 3: at first Avenue, I don't think we got our the

611
00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:33,319
Speaker 3: money deposited in our account until maybe September twenty twenty one.

612
00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:38,560
Speaker 1: Wow. So is there anybody who ultimately got left out.

613
00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:41,239
Speaker 1: And there are other people where the steps were so

614
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:43,879
Speaker 1: onerous they just gave up or couldn't figure it out.

615
00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:47,880
Speaker 3: You know a lot of folks we heard actually applied,

616
00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:49,640
Speaker 3: or some folks that should say, applied for the Restaurant

617
00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:52,680
Speaker 3: Revitalization Act. There you had to have I think thirty

618
00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:55,640
Speaker 3: three percent food. So some folks opted to just to

619
00:34:55,719 --> 00:35:00,319
Speaker 3: just go for the Restaurant Act. And so, you know,

620
00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:03,000
Speaker 3: I think in terms of folks getting left out, I

621
00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:05,359
Speaker 3: think it was moral industries like the gyms. I think

622
00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:09,760
Speaker 3: maybe they felt left out or I'm trying to remember

623
00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:14,080
Speaker 3: who else was advocating at the time. But in terms

624
00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:19,480
Speaker 3: of NIVA members, I believe almost all NIVA members were

625
00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:20,520
Speaker 3: able to secure grants.

626
00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:23,400
Speaker 1: Okay, so let's jump forward. You talked about the drop

627
00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:26,799
Speaker 1: rates going down. Explain for those who are not sophisticated

628
00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:29,319
Speaker 1: what drop rates are, right.

629
00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:32,360
Speaker 3: So, a drop count is how we measure what percentage

630
00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:36,319
Speaker 3: of ticket buyers actually show up, scan their tickets and

631
00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:40,239
Speaker 3: enter the venue. So it's really important, especially to clubs

632
00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:46,000
Speaker 3: and theaters who make their money on the ancillar raising

633
00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:51,239
Speaker 3: people in the venue, buying beer and spending money in

634
00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:55,880
Speaker 3: the venue. So if you sell a ticket to somebody

635
00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:58,719
Speaker 3: that doesn't show up, that's effectively lost revenue for us.

636
00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:01,600
Speaker 3: So before COVID, you know, we had a no show

637
00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:05,520
Speaker 3: rate of maybe five percent, four or five percent. Well,

638
00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:07,880
Speaker 3: post COVID, we started seeing no show rates. You know,

639
00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:10,720
Speaker 3: initially during Omicron it was sometimes off to a fifty percent.

640
00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:15,440
Speaker 3: But you know, once the industry and society kind of

641
00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:18,360
Speaker 3: got back to normal life, we were still seeing no

642
00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:24,080
Speaker 3: show rates of fifteen to twenty percent, which is a crisis. Again,

643
00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:27,279
Speaker 3: if you're relying on those beer sales to pay you rent,

644
00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:27,960
Speaker 3: then what.

645
00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:30,560
Speaker 1: Did you do when you notice these bad numbers?

646
00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:34,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, so first, you know, we just went I think

647
00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:35,520
Speaker 3: I think I went to Casey and just said, hey,

648
00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:36,840
Speaker 3: we're seeing this.

649
00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:41,000
Speaker 2: This is a huge problem for us. What do you

650
00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:45,120
Speaker 2: is there? You know, what can we do legislatively about it?

651
00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:48,440
Speaker 3: Because we started, you know, discussing amongst ourselves and realizing

652
00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:51,440
Speaker 3: that these tickets are sitting on the secondary market, and

653
00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:55,560
Speaker 3: so you know, if you sell a ticket to a broker,

654
00:36:56,440 --> 00:36:59,399
Speaker 3: well sometimes they're more invested in selling if they buy

655
00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:02,920
Speaker 3: twenty tickets, they're more invested in selling five tickets for

656
00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:07,560
Speaker 3: you know, five hundred dollars versus twenty tickets for two

657
00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:11,359
Speaker 3: hundred dollars and so that's you know, it again works

658
00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:13,440
Speaker 3: out all fine and well for the brokers, but for

659
00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:16,920
Speaker 3: the venues, that's a huge problem. And so we started

660
00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:21,480
Speaker 3: you know, kind of linking that and linking also, you know,

661
00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:25,480
Speaker 3: googling our venues and seeing that sometimes our box office

662
00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:28,160
Speaker 3: web pages and our ticket our official ticket sellers were

663
00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:31,480
Speaker 3: way down, and our customers were, you know, buying tickets

664
00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:33,879
Speaker 3: from folks that they thought were us that weren't really us.

665
00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:37,560
Speaker 3: And so that combined led us to go and talk

666
00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:40,000
Speaker 3: to Casey and aking Gump and at Pegano and say.

667
00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:41,680
Speaker 2: Okay, what can we do about this?

668
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:44,840
Speaker 3: Because you know, you don't not everything can be a crisis,

669
00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:48,120
Speaker 3: but this, this has the potential to be another oncoming crisis.

670
00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:52,440
Speaker 1: Okay, once again, you have the Senate in the House.

671
00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:55,960
Speaker 1: Is this an independent bill or is this part of

672
00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:57,920
Speaker 1: another bill?

673
00:37:58,040 --> 00:38:00,160
Speaker 3: Right now, it's an independent bill. We're working hard to

674
00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:03,400
Speaker 3: get co sponsors in the Senate. There is a House

675
00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:06,400
Speaker 3: bill that is a different bill that's called the Ticket Act,

676
00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:09,560
Speaker 3: that has some of the similar provisions like all in

677
00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:14,319
Speaker 3: pricing and banning spect tickets and predatory deceptive practices. You know,

678
00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:17,239
Speaker 3: we think the Fans First Act has much stricter penalties

679
00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:21,840
Speaker 3: and the language within each of those categories goes further

680
00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:25,360
Speaker 3: to protect our fans. So, you know, we're waiting to

681
00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:29,759
Speaker 3: see what the packages might be March April, you know,

682
00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:31,440
Speaker 3: to see about inclusion and to see what we can

683
00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:33,200
Speaker 3: do to get it past both houses.

684
00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:38,040
Speaker 1: Okay, what is CO sponsoring AD?

685
00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:40,040
Speaker 2: What is it at right now?

686
00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:40,160
Speaker 3: No?

687
00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:41,720
Speaker 1: What does it do for the bill?

688
00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:43,040
Speaker 2: Oh?

689
00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:47,200
Speaker 3: It shows that we have momentum that we have you know,

690
00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:51,759
Speaker 3: people and politicians I should say that believe in this

691
00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:53,600
Speaker 3: and that we'll vote for it, and that are invested

692
00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:56,240
Speaker 3: in it, and just goes to show general support.

693
00:38:56,480 --> 00:38:59,960
Speaker 1: Okay, you know this is Washington, d C. We read

694
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:03,320
Speaker 1: every day in the paper. People say one thing publicly

695
00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:06,600
Speaker 1: and another thing privately. How hard is it to get

696
00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:08,600
Speaker 1: someone to go on the record say hey, yeah, I'll

697
00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:08,960
Speaker 1: do that.

698
00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:12,719
Speaker 3: How hard is it?

699
00:39:12,719 --> 00:39:13,400
Speaker 2: It's not easy.

700
00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:19,279
Speaker 3: It's definitely not easy. I think that you know, as

701
00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:22,360
Speaker 3: independent venues and our partners and the fix the TIXT

702
00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:27,320
Speaker 3: coalitionion which includes you know, the performing arts and the

703
00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:31,440
Speaker 3: bigger venues and independent ticket sellers and you know folks

704
00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:34,520
Speaker 3: throughout the industry, I think we have an important voice,

705
00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:36,600
Speaker 3: and we have an important story, and I do think

706
00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:37,879
Speaker 3: that we have the right bill.

707
00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:39,480
Speaker 2: You know, we.

708
00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:44,719
Speaker 3: Started with the goal of you know, trying to cap

709
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:47,440
Speaker 3: resale at you know, ten percent above face or you know,

710
00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:50,680
Speaker 3: trying to do some more protective measures and realizing the

711
00:39:50,719 --> 00:39:53,040
Speaker 3: political and feasibility of it. I think we have the

712
00:39:53,080 --> 00:39:56,440
Speaker 3: bill right now that is passable, that is a no brainer.

713
00:39:56,480 --> 00:39:59,640
Speaker 3: Like I said, it's an important first piece of the puzzle.

714
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:04,000
Speaker 3: I don't believe comprehensive ticketing legislation has ever even gotten

715
00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:07,080
Speaker 3: this far yet. So to show that we can pass

716
00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:10,520
Speaker 3: a comprehensive ticketing bill, that this is important and that

717
00:40:11,080 --> 00:40:14,040
Speaker 3: does go you know, take that important first step in

718
00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:16,840
Speaker 3: protecting our customers. I think we have the right story,

719
00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:18,960
Speaker 3: we have the right bill, and we're going to get

720
00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:19,800
Speaker 3: to work and make it happen.

721
00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:25,680
Speaker 1: Okay, is the lobbyist the person who's always into the

722
00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:28,719
Speaker 1: nitty gritty with the elected officials or do you or

723
00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:33,120
Speaker 1: other individuals from the organization actually get into the trenches too.

724
00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:38,879
Speaker 3: So the lobbyists are definitely you know, again, they're most

725
00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:44,000
Speaker 3: knowledgeable in terms of like bill language and how to

726
00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:50,399
Speaker 3: phrase what we want in the legal terms that make

727
00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:55,720
Speaker 3: a bill effective. Certainly, myself and Stephen Parker, the executive

728
00:40:55,719 --> 00:41:01,359
Speaker 3: director of NIVA, and the other advocacy committee leadership can

729
00:41:02,080 --> 00:41:04,800
Speaker 3: talk in the nitty gritty. I think, however, our voice

730
00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:10,120
Speaker 3: is probably most effective as business owners and effective constituents.

731
00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:13,799
Speaker 1: So do you personally talk to Amy Klobitchaw.

732
00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:16,560
Speaker 2: Whenever? I am so lucky?

733
00:41:17,160 --> 00:41:19,520
Speaker 3: Absolutely, I think she's the best.

734
00:41:19,920 --> 00:41:21,719
Speaker 1: Why is she the best? And when you do, how

735
00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:24,279
Speaker 1: often would you talk to him? What would be the agenda? Like, hey,

736
00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:26,319
Speaker 1: good seeing Amy, Let's talk about the weather, or you

737
00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:27,920
Speaker 1: get down into what you're looking for.

738
00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:33,960
Speaker 3: You know, I think she's the best because she absolutely

739
00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:37,040
Speaker 3: fights for what she believes in and she doesn't give

740
00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:39,120
Speaker 3: up until she gets it done.

741
00:41:39,120 --> 00:41:41,759
Speaker 2: And you know, there's a reason why I think she is.

742
00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:47,760
Speaker 3: The most effective legislator, right And she just really cares.

743
00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:50,040
Speaker 3: And you know, throughout the same of our stages process

744
00:41:50,040 --> 00:41:53,000
Speaker 3: and throughout COVID, like she really cared about our industry,

745
00:41:53,120 --> 00:41:55,359
Speaker 3: She cared about my employees, she cared about making sure

746
00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:58,400
Speaker 3: we were reopen, and she, you know, again, like us,

747
00:41:58,480 --> 00:42:00,719
Speaker 3: left no stone unturned and did every thing possible to

748
00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:02,520
Speaker 3: make sure that that bill is passed.

749
00:42:03,120 --> 00:42:05,959
Speaker 1: Let me recap in the last twelve months. How many

750
00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:08,080
Speaker 1: times have you spoken have been one on one with

751
00:42:08,160 --> 00:42:09,560
Speaker 1: Amy Klobitchar.

752
00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:13,120
Speaker 3: Oh, less than a handful. No, We're not like having

753
00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:15,319
Speaker 3: dinner or drinks.

754
00:42:21,719 --> 00:42:26,520
Speaker 1: Leavis spearheading this bill. Not everybody has the same agenda.

755
00:42:26,840 --> 00:42:29,719
Speaker 1: What did the brokers in the secondary market have to say?

756
00:42:31,040 --> 00:42:31,239
Speaker 4: Right?

757
00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:34,440
Speaker 3: So, you know, I do think it's important that before

758
00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:36,200
Speaker 3: we even started this effort, we put together the Fix

759
00:42:36,239 --> 00:42:40,600
Speaker 3: the TIXX Coalition, which has thirty members you know, from

760
00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:44,960
Speaker 3: throughout the industry, from the Recording Academy and the artist

761
00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:48,560
Speaker 3: groups that have you know, as important, if not a

762
00:42:48,600 --> 00:42:50,840
Speaker 3: more important voice in this than we do, you know,

763
00:42:50,920 --> 00:42:54,280
Speaker 3: to the TONDO and to the performing our groups, independent

764
00:42:54,280 --> 00:42:56,600
Speaker 3: ticket sellers, like I said, and so I think it's

765
00:42:56,640 --> 00:43:01,839
Speaker 3: important to have that coalition again, knowing that the brokers

766
00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:07,040
Speaker 3: and the secondaries, they just their resources seem to be endless,

767
00:43:07,400 --> 00:43:09,520
Speaker 3: and they've been at this a lot longer than we have.

768
00:43:09,640 --> 00:43:13,080
Speaker 3: You know, NIVA has been you know, lobbying for what's

769
00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:16,600
Speaker 3: January twenty fourth for four years or so. I mean,

770
00:43:16,600 --> 00:43:19,680
Speaker 3: the secondaries have been having these really having these conversations

771
00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:23,560
Speaker 3: and have these relationships going back decades or more so.

772
00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:26,520
Speaker 3: We definitely are playing catch up, especially on this topic.

773
00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:30,719
Speaker 1: Okay, do the secondaries have their own lobbyists and relationship

774
00:43:30,719 --> 00:43:31,759
Speaker 1: with elected officials?

775
00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:35,480
Speaker 2: Oh? Absolutely, absolutely, very strong ones.

776
00:43:36,080 --> 00:43:42,000
Speaker 1: So when you're having this bill, are they literally part

777
00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:43,680
Speaker 1: of the mix or are they just going behind the

778
00:43:43,719 --> 00:43:46,960
Speaker 1: scenes to the people who are supporting them saying, hey,

779
00:43:46,960 --> 00:43:47,680
Speaker 1: we don't want this.

780
00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:52,359
Speaker 3: You know, I'm not entirely sure. I know that they're

781
00:43:52,440 --> 00:43:55,239
Speaker 3: running a public campaign. I forgot what their alliance is called.

782
00:43:56,880 --> 00:43:59,520
Speaker 3: But you know, again, we think that we have the

783
00:43:59,600 --> 00:44:03,080
Speaker 3: right bill. We have a very compromise kind of no

784
00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:09,359
Speaker 3: brainer solution that would bring transparency and some you know,

785
00:44:10,120 --> 00:44:13,239
Speaker 3: clarity to our customers. And like I said, what we

786
00:44:13,239 --> 00:44:16,440
Speaker 3: started out with like on a fire and brimstone of

787
00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:19,879
Speaker 3: you know, of the secondary market. We compromise in order

788
00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:21,760
Speaker 3: to get something passed. We thought that was really important.

789
00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:24,440
Speaker 3: You know, we're not interested in like what they call

790
00:44:24,480 --> 00:44:27,360
Speaker 3: a messaging bill, right, which is a bill that's introduced

791
00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:29,840
Speaker 3: that has no chance of passing, but you know, you

792
00:44:29,920 --> 00:44:32,000
Speaker 3: just you want to get it on the record. You know,

793
00:44:32,040 --> 00:44:34,640
Speaker 3: we're not interested in that. We're all all of us

794
00:44:34,640 --> 00:44:37,439
Speaker 3: that even we have other jobs. We're running businesses, we're

795
00:44:37,440 --> 00:44:40,680
Speaker 3: promoting shows like if we take our time and effort

796
00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:42,200
Speaker 3: to introduce a bill, we want to make sure that

797
00:44:42,239 --> 00:44:42,840
Speaker 3: it's passable.

798
00:44:44,080 --> 00:44:49,840
Speaker 1: Okay, people think ticketing is easy, but it's very complicated.

799
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:54,320
Speaker 1: I've had my own interaction with the government and even

800
00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:56,840
Speaker 1: people who were there dedicated to this, I'm stunned with

801
00:44:56,920 --> 00:45:01,880
Speaker 1: they don't understand it. So Congress people, do they understand ticketing.

802
00:45:04,080 --> 00:45:08,360
Speaker 3: It's interesting to me how many, especially staffers that we

803
00:45:08,480 --> 00:45:12,240
Speaker 3: talked to, that have their own experience their ticket buyers.

804
00:45:12,320 --> 00:45:15,560
Speaker 3: Right there are customers, you know, they're going to shows, and.

805
00:45:15,520 --> 00:45:18,280
Speaker 2: So they have a really good.

806
00:45:18,520 --> 00:45:22,719
Speaker 3: Knowledge of it from the customer side, which sometimes you know,

807
00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:24,040
Speaker 3: promoters and venues.

808
00:45:24,080 --> 00:45:25,120
Speaker 2: Sometimes we don't even have.

809
00:45:25,040 --> 00:45:29,160
Speaker 3: That perspective of it as far as like the intricacies

810
00:45:29,320 --> 00:45:35,000
Speaker 3: of the market. Some some do, and most of you know,

811
00:45:35,400 --> 00:45:38,600
Speaker 3: everyone we've talked to especially is very smart and as

812
00:45:38,640 --> 00:45:40,960
Speaker 3: soon as we explain it, they get it immediately.

813
00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:46,120
Speaker 1: Okay, you went undercover to the broker conference. Tell us

814
00:45:46,120 --> 00:45:47,040
Speaker 1: a little bit about that.

815
00:45:48,760 --> 00:45:52,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, So I was able to use a friends a

816
00:45:52,680 --> 00:45:57,120
Speaker 3: friend's name and credit card and walk around the floor

817
00:45:57,160 --> 00:46:02,440
Speaker 3: of the conference and was just totally in shock at

818
00:46:02,440 --> 00:46:07,120
Speaker 3: the tools that they have in order to access our tickets,

819
00:46:07,160 --> 00:46:13,000
Speaker 3: like on precedented, unimaginable ways to get their hands on

820
00:46:13,040 --> 00:46:16,840
Speaker 3: our tickets. As much as we try to, you know,

821
00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:22,040
Speaker 3: put ticket limits and put zip code restrictions and put

822
00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:27,160
Speaker 3: all non transferability anything we try to do, there's a workaround.

823
00:46:27,239 --> 00:46:30,239
Speaker 3: And I was even more surprised walking around and that

824
00:46:30,280 --> 00:46:33,080
Speaker 3: they're just advertising it in plain sight, right Like, you know,

825
00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:36,480
Speaker 3: for instance, ghost browsers, so you can open up more

826
00:46:36,520 --> 00:46:40,719
Speaker 3: than fifty different tabs that all have different IP addresses.

827
00:46:41,400 --> 00:46:43,840
Speaker 3: They have you know, there's digital credit cards that don't

828
00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:48,000
Speaker 3: have any kind of ZIP code requirements. So you know,

829
00:46:48,040 --> 00:46:50,360
Speaker 3: they were literally talking to us saying.

830
00:46:50,200 --> 00:46:51,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, you can, you can.

831
00:46:51,280 --> 00:46:53,360
Speaker 3: We can get you a thousand different credit card numbers

832
00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:55,359
Speaker 3: and you don't even need don't worry any zip code you.

833
00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:56,600
Speaker 2: Want, don't even worry about it.

834
00:46:57,640 --> 00:47:02,279
Speaker 3: Their inventory management solutions are way more sophisticated than what

835
00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:10,120
Speaker 3: we have, right, Like, they can manage all your inventory effectively,

836
00:47:10,760 --> 00:47:15,480
Speaker 3: you know, hide the inventory and post it based on

837
00:47:15,520 --> 00:47:18,760
Speaker 3: how many people are buying in the pricing algorithms, based

838
00:47:18,800 --> 00:47:21,680
Speaker 3: on what the pricing is across all the different secondary markets.

839
00:47:22,880 --> 00:47:27,400
Speaker 3: They have tools that allow that instantly access all of

840
00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:30,480
Speaker 3: the pre sale pass codes in one place, and that

841
00:47:30,600 --> 00:47:35,160
Speaker 3: can ping are the ticketing companies to actually get pretty

842
00:47:35,160 --> 00:47:38,960
Speaker 3: accurate ticket audits. I mean, so we're walking around and

843
00:47:39,000 --> 00:47:42,280
Speaker 3: we're you know, saying, hey, we're interested in getting more involved.

844
00:47:42,280 --> 00:47:44,359
Speaker 3: We're just kind of starting out, and I said, oh,

845
00:47:44,520 --> 00:47:47,520
Speaker 3: let me show you how this works. The company the

846
00:47:47,800 --> 00:47:50,560
Speaker 3: sales are actually pulled up one of my own shows

847
00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:53,319
Speaker 3: at the Palace and said, okay, here it is. This

848
00:47:53,400 --> 00:47:55,400
Speaker 3: show is on this date, and there's eight hundred and

849
00:47:55,440 --> 00:47:58,560
Speaker 3: sixty seven tickets available. I'm going, you've got to be

850
00:47:58,640 --> 00:48:00,080
Speaker 3: kidding me. So I pull up my own ticket and

851
00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:03,840
Speaker 3: I'm like, oh my god, they were probably within ten percent,

852
00:48:04,120 --> 00:48:04,319
Speaker 3: you know.

853
00:48:04,320 --> 00:48:05,000
Speaker 2: And then on the right.

854
00:48:04,880 --> 00:48:08,000
Speaker 3: Side, it's okay, here's all the different their pre Selle passwords,

855
00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:10,960
Speaker 3: here's when they go on sale. You've been set up

856
00:48:10,960 --> 00:48:14,799
Speaker 3: to buy automatically with your you know, ghost browsers, with

857
00:48:14,840 --> 00:48:16,120
Speaker 3: your virtual credit cards.

858
00:48:17,239 --> 00:48:19,160
Speaker 2: It's just it's just insane.

859
00:48:19,320 --> 00:48:22,640
Speaker 3: So it became instantly illuminating, you know, why we were

860
00:48:22,640 --> 00:48:25,279
Speaker 3: having these drop count issues, and why fans were so

861
00:48:25,360 --> 00:48:28,279
Speaker 3: frustrated when they were unable to access tickets, and why

862
00:48:28,280 --> 00:48:31,200
Speaker 3: they're paying so much more, you know, in for their

863
00:48:31,200 --> 00:48:33,960
Speaker 3: tickets that are actually going to those of us responsible

864
00:48:33,960 --> 00:48:34,799
Speaker 3: for making shows happen.

865
00:48:36,120 --> 00:48:42,360
Speaker 1: Is this a winnable war by the ticket company.

866
00:48:41,520 --> 00:48:45,800
Speaker 5: By the ticketing companies, the dato It's an ongoing battle

867
00:48:45,800 --> 00:48:49,279
Speaker 5: between the secondary market brokers and the ticketing companies whatever

868
00:48:49,320 --> 00:48:52,080
Speaker 5: it might be Ticketmaster access see.

869
00:48:52,520 --> 00:48:54,480
Speaker 1: You know, is this going to go on forever? Or

870
00:48:54,560 --> 00:48:57,800
Speaker 1: is there any way that they can have enough technology

871
00:48:58,440 --> 00:49:00,160
Speaker 1: to put a dent this?

872
00:49:02,040 --> 00:49:06,000
Speaker 3: I mean, certainly after walking that floor, it became clear

873
00:49:06,080 --> 00:49:09,880
Speaker 3: that we need a legislative solution because any tech that

874
00:49:09,920 --> 00:49:12,640
Speaker 3: we can come up with, you know, they can instantly combat.

875
00:49:12,280 --> 00:49:15,799
Speaker 2: Because they don't have the stress or the.

876
00:49:17,080 --> 00:49:18,920
Speaker 3: Financial strain of actually having to put on shows. They

877
00:49:18,920 --> 00:49:21,680
Speaker 3: can put one hundred percent of their resources into just

878
00:49:21,719 --> 00:49:24,400
Speaker 3: getting our tickets right. So you know, again the you know,

879
00:49:24,880 --> 00:49:28,360
Speaker 3: in Minneapolis, we have we're doing eleven hundred, twelve hundred

880
00:49:28,360 --> 00:49:33,360
Speaker 3: shows a year, We're servicing customers, we have a busy,

881
00:49:33,400 --> 00:49:38,400
Speaker 3: stressful business to then you know, try to also go

882
00:49:38,520 --> 00:49:41,319
Speaker 3: above and beyond, and you know, we do the very

883
00:49:41,360 --> 00:49:45,120
Speaker 3: best we can while still actually having you know, having

884
00:49:45,160 --> 00:49:49,440
Speaker 3: a business at twitch to protect. I do think it's winnable.

885
00:49:49,480 --> 00:49:51,759
Speaker 3: I think that this is the story that we need

886
00:49:51,800 --> 00:49:56,440
Speaker 3: to tell, and I think the customers, you know, realizing

887
00:49:56,480 --> 00:49:58,479
Speaker 3: when they come to the door that they paid eighty

888
00:49:58,480 --> 00:50:00,560
Speaker 3: dollars for a ticket that's available at the door for

889
00:50:00,600 --> 00:50:05,200
Speaker 3: twenty five right. That happens almost every show, or realizing

890
00:50:05,600 --> 00:50:07,879
Speaker 3: that they didn't when the show was canceled they didn't

891
00:50:07,880 --> 00:50:09,920
Speaker 3: get a refund because they bought it from a broker

892
00:50:09,960 --> 00:50:12,040
Speaker 3: that has no legal obligation to refund them.

893
00:50:12,719 --> 00:50:12,879
Speaker 4: Right.

894
00:50:12,920 --> 00:50:15,600
Speaker 3: I think there's very kind of There are problems that

895
00:50:15,640 --> 00:50:18,520
Speaker 3: are becoming more and more apparent that are customer facing

896
00:50:18,520 --> 00:50:19,800
Speaker 3: and not just industry facing.

897
00:50:21,000 --> 00:50:27,560
Speaker 1: So you're focusing on legislation to solve this problem. Do

898
00:50:27,600 --> 00:50:33,160
Speaker 1: you believe technology can solve the problem?

899
00:50:33,360 --> 00:50:37,920
Speaker 3: You know, I am not smart enough about the technological aspects.

900
00:50:37,960 --> 00:50:41,160
Speaker 3: I certainly hope, so all of you smart tech people

901
00:50:41,600 --> 00:50:45,400
Speaker 3: listening to the podcast please also another important part of

902
00:50:45,400 --> 00:50:46,120
Speaker 3: the puzzle.

903
00:50:45,880 --> 00:50:50,479
Speaker 1: Right, Okay, you go to this convention. I'm just interested, Hey,

904
00:50:51,360 --> 00:50:55,440
Speaker 1: how many people are there? B You're an attractive young woman.

905
00:50:56,080 --> 00:50:58,239
Speaker 1: Do they say what she doing here? Or are there

906
00:50:58,280 --> 00:50:59,399
Speaker 1: are a lot of women there?

907
00:51:02,200 --> 00:51:04,680
Speaker 3: I was definitely one of the only one of the

908
00:51:04,719 --> 00:51:06,600
Speaker 3: only women in the room.

909
00:51:07,200 --> 00:51:07,560
Speaker 4: I was.

910
00:51:08,520 --> 00:51:10,680
Speaker 3: I thought I was gonna get called out immediately, because

911
00:51:10,880 --> 00:51:12,800
Speaker 3: certainly it was a lot of bros.

912
00:51:12,880 --> 00:51:16,360
Speaker 2: It was a lot of bros. So there were maybe.

913
00:51:16,160 --> 00:51:20,120
Speaker 3: Eight hundred or so, and it seems to be mostly

914
00:51:20,120 --> 00:51:23,839
Speaker 3: about the trade floor and about you know, they had

915
00:51:23,880 --> 00:51:26,160
Speaker 3: like maybe one or two panels a day right at

916
00:51:26,200 --> 00:51:28,920
Speaker 3: nivacn which I'll give a small plug for everybody to

917
00:51:28,920 --> 00:51:32,120
Speaker 3: come to the NIVA conference in New Orleans in early June.

918
00:51:32,280 --> 00:51:35,280
Speaker 3: But you know, it's about learning, it's about bettering your business.

919
00:51:35,320 --> 00:51:38,400
Speaker 3: We have, you know, dozens and dozens of panels throughout

920
00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:41,319
Speaker 3: the entire day that they had, you know, maybe two

921
00:51:41,360 --> 00:51:43,400
Speaker 3: panels a day, and seemed to be mostly about networking

922
00:51:43,480 --> 00:51:49,040
Speaker 3: and discovering the new technological resources available. But you know,

923
00:51:49,120 --> 00:51:51,239
Speaker 3: I tried to wear a hat and keep my head

924
00:51:51,280 --> 00:51:54,160
Speaker 3: down and just try to learn and glean as much

925
00:51:54,160 --> 00:51:55,040
Speaker 3: information as I could.

926
00:51:55,640 --> 00:51:59,839
Speaker 1: Okay, just to be clear, let's say you have a show.

927
00:52:00,480 --> 00:52:03,360
Speaker 1: To make the numbers easy, we'll call it one thousand

928
00:52:03,440 --> 00:52:07,560
Speaker 1: tickets and we'll say the ticket was twenty dollars and

929
00:52:07,760 --> 00:52:11,120
Speaker 1: use your example, and people spend eighty dollars on the

930
00:52:11,160 --> 00:52:15,920
Speaker 1: secondary market. Do you find that, no matter how well

931
00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:18,760
Speaker 1: the show is doing, it's one thing that the show's

932
00:52:18,800 --> 00:52:21,839
Speaker 1: going clean. If it's selling out Okay, tickets are hard

933
00:52:21,880 --> 00:52:24,879
Speaker 1: to get, but let's just assume the show is doing

934
00:52:24,920 --> 00:52:28,920
Speaker 1: seventy five percent of capacity. Are people still being confused

935
00:52:28,920 --> 00:52:31,000
Speaker 1: and paying more on the secondary market?

936
00:52:31,840 --> 00:52:32,480
Speaker 2: Absolutely?

937
00:52:32,560 --> 00:52:35,480
Speaker 3: I mean last I checked, every single one of our

938
00:52:35,520 --> 00:52:40,000
Speaker 3: shows was listed on secondary market. So even the ones

939
00:52:40,040 --> 00:52:43,160
Speaker 3: at the smaller capacity rooms, you know that maybe were

940
00:52:43,239 --> 00:52:47,799
Speaker 3: under half sold. So and without a doubt because of

941
00:52:48,200 --> 00:52:52,920
Speaker 3: the way that the advertisements are working that most people

942
00:52:53,400 --> 00:52:55,840
Speaker 3: from what I've I believe I read a stat that

943
00:52:56,040 --> 00:52:58,880
Speaker 3: forty percent of people buy their tickets by just clicking

944
00:52:58,880 --> 00:53:01,279
Speaker 3: the first link in Google right. And so as a

945
00:53:01,320 --> 00:53:04,040
Speaker 3: independent venue like we don't have the resources to outdid

946
00:53:04,200 --> 00:53:07,839
Speaker 3: the secondaries. You know, if you they you know, buying

947
00:53:07,880 --> 00:53:11,160
Speaker 3: up the keywords like events and tickets and and so

948
00:53:12,000 --> 00:53:14,759
Speaker 3: you know, when you go to those secondaries sometimes the

949
00:53:14,800 --> 00:53:17,360
Speaker 3: tickets are lower that that's you know, their talking point.

950
00:53:17,600 --> 00:53:21,040
Speaker 3: But you know, on average, there was a government study

951
00:53:21,040 --> 00:53:23,160
Speaker 3: I think it's a it was about twenty seven percent

952
00:53:23,200 --> 00:53:26,680
Speaker 3: over face value on average. And so from our perspective,

953
00:53:26,680 --> 00:53:28,640
Speaker 3: that takes money out of the pockets of our customers.

954
00:53:28,640 --> 00:53:31,040
Speaker 3: And what we're trying to do at the club level

955
00:53:31,040 --> 00:53:33,240
Speaker 3: as an independence, we're trying to build a long term

956
00:53:33,280 --> 00:53:39,680
Speaker 3: sustainable community and ecosystem of live music obsessed concert goers

957
00:53:40,120 --> 00:53:41,920
Speaker 3: that don't just want to go to one show a year, right,

958
00:53:41,920 --> 00:53:44,880
Speaker 3: they want to go to concerts as a lifestyle, and

959
00:53:44,920 --> 00:53:47,279
Speaker 3: they want to take risks on going to see new

960
00:53:47,320 --> 00:53:50,359
Speaker 3: bands and view going to concert the way they would,

961
00:53:50,440 --> 00:53:52,960
Speaker 3: you know, go into the movies or go into a restaurant.

962
00:53:53,440 --> 00:53:57,800
Speaker 3: And so if you spend you know, twenty seven fifty

963
00:53:57,800 --> 00:54:00,760
Speaker 3: percent more, that takes the money out of your pocket

964
00:54:00,760 --> 00:54:03,279
Speaker 3: that you can spend discovering these new bands and really

965
00:54:03,280 --> 00:54:04,800
Speaker 3: making concerts a lifestyle.

966
00:54:05,600 --> 00:54:08,759
Speaker 1: Now, I believe you said previously that the brokers are

967
00:54:08,760 --> 00:54:11,719
Speaker 1: so sophisticated they can even replicate your website.

968
00:54:13,360 --> 00:54:15,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, for a while, I'm not sure if it's still up,

969
00:54:15,200 --> 00:54:18,240
Speaker 3: but for a while there was a website called First

970
00:54:18,239 --> 00:54:22,160
Speaker 3: Avenue Boxofice dot com. Well that wasn't us. The branding,

971
00:54:22,760 --> 00:54:25,719
Speaker 3: the I want to say, the logo. That's another thing

972
00:54:25,760 --> 00:54:27,360
Speaker 3: that the fans first act. You know, you couldn't you

973
00:54:27,360 --> 00:54:30,400
Speaker 3: can't use logos, you can't use photos of the venue,

974
00:54:30,400 --> 00:54:34,080
Speaker 3: you can't do anything to try to represent yourself as

975
00:54:34,080 --> 00:54:38,839
Speaker 3: an official seller. So you know you can you could

976
00:54:38,840 --> 00:54:41,200
Speaker 3: go to First Avenue, Boxofice, dot com and have no

977
00:54:41,880 --> 00:54:44,080
Speaker 3: idea that you're not actually buying from first avenue.

978
00:54:44,800 --> 00:54:47,240
Speaker 1: Okay, let's just go a little bit more into ticketing.

979
00:54:49,040 --> 00:54:53,080
Speaker 1: When you look deeply, frequently everybody has dirty hands. You

980
00:54:53,160 --> 00:54:59,080
Speaker 1: have the customer who's complaining, and then you say, when

981
00:54:59,080 --> 00:55:00,719
Speaker 1: you want to do something what we used to call

982
00:55:00,800 --> 00:55:04,000
Speaker 1: paperless or tie it to their phone whatever. They're pissed

983
00:55:04,040 --> 00:55:07,359
Speaker 1: off because they can't buy multiple tickets and scalp them themselves.

984
00:55:08,640 --> 00:55:13,200
Speaker 1: So what about locking tickets down to individuals? Is that

985
00:55:13,400 --> 00:55:15,920
Speaker 1: something that you can do want to do or is

986
00:55:15,920 --> 00:55:16,800
Speaker 1: that ship sailed?

987
00:55:19,880 --> 00:55:23,480
Speaker 3: I mean in terms of a knowing who's in the room,

988
00:55:24,040 --> 00:55:26,520
Speaker 3: that would be incredibly helpful. You know, sometimes you have

989
00:55:26,560 --> 00:55:30,759
Speaker 3: emergency situations, you have bands that are giving us, you know,

990
00:55:30,840 --> 00:55:32,840
Speaker 3: stocker lists that they don't want let in. It would

991
00:55:32,880 --> 00:55:35,960
Speaker 3: be incredible to have the information for everybody in the

992
00:55:36,080 --> 00:55:39,000
Speaker 3: room in terms of trying to get people in the

993
00:55:39,239 --> 00:55:43,160
Speaker 3: door quickly. That probably you know, there's a there's a

994
00:55:43,200 --> 00:55:50,440
Speaker 3: balance there. But I do also think customers want to

995
00:55:50,600 --> 00:55:53,400
Speaker 3: just have you know, four tickets on their phone and

996
00:55:53,400 --> 00:55:56,240
Speaker 3: scan them all together and have an ease of purchase

997
00:55:56,280 --> 00:55:57,879
Speaker 3: and an ease of concert going as well.

998
00:55:58,480 --> 00:56:01,920
Speaker 1: I guess what I'm saying is, do you view customer

999
00:56:02,600 --> 00:56:06,440
Speaker 1: secondary market scalping is an issue you want to address.

1000
00:56:07,440 --> 00:56:11,360
Speaker 3: You know, we're mostly concerned with industrial level scalpers. You know,

1001
00:56:11,440 --> 00:56:14,120
Speaker 3: if somebody bought a ticket, they intended to go to

1002
00:56:14,120 --> 00:56:17,560
Speaker 3: the show, they couldn't find a babysitter, and they want

1003
00:56:17,560 --> 00:56:19,320
Speaker 3: to make an extra ten bucks off that ticket. I

1004
00:56:19,560 --> 00:56:22,560
Speaker 3: don't know if anyone. I certainly don't have an issue

1005
00:56:22,560 --> 00:56:27,279
Speaker 3: with that. You know, we're at NIVA really concerned though

1006
00:56:27,280 --> 00:56:30,560
Speaker 3: about you know, again the industrial level scalpers that are

1007
00:56:30,600 --> 00:56:37,040
Speaker 3: using these really sophisticated tools to build customers kind of.

1008
00:56:37,160 --> 00:56:41,480
Speaker 1: On mass you have seven venues. How many different ticketing

1009
00:56:41,520 --> 00:56:42,640
Speaker 1: companies do you use?

1010
00:56:44,120 --> 00:56:45,080
Speaker 2: We use one venu.

1011
00:56:45,120 --> 00:56:48,680
Speaker 3: We have a great partner and access at our six venues.

1012
00:56:48,719 --> 00:56:52,640
Speaker 3: We do promote shows in outside rooms and so you know,

1013
00:56:52,680 --> 00:56:54,920
Speaker 3: we'll use the ticketing system that those rooms use.

1014
00:56:56,320 --> 00:57:00,319
Speaker 1: Let's say you own first avenue. So traditional only a

1015
00:57:00,360 --> 00:57:04,799
Speaker 1: ticketing company would pay the venue for an exclusive and

1016
00:57:04,800 --> 00:57:07,640
Speaker 1: that's where a lot of the fee comes from. So

1017
00:57:07,680 --> 00:57:11,200
Speaker 1: if you're with access, how do you negotiate the fee.

1018
00:57:13,760 --> 00:57:18,400
Speaker 2: That was negotiated under very.

1019
00:57:19,800 --> 00:57:22,440
Speaker 3: Want? I think we negotiate our contract in twenty twenty,

1020
00:57:22,920 --> 00:57:26,120
Speaker 3: so very kind of stressful terms. But again, I think

1021
00:57:26,720 --> 00:57:30,560
Speaker 3: everybody looks for different things in their partners, right, Like

1022
00:57:30,960 --> 00:57:34,680
Speaker 3: some folks that are maybe more consumed, more concerned.

1023
00:57:34,240 --> 00:57:37,320
Speaker 2: With with brokers will go for.

1024
00:57:37,560 --> 00:57:42,240
Speaker 3: Some solutions that allow for like a waitlist or you know,

1025
00:57:42,320 --> 00:57:46,920
Speaker 3: that don't allow people to resell. Some people want the

1026
00:57:46,920 --> 00:57:52,240
Speaker 3: the reach and the kind of broad marketplace the ticketmaster has.

1027
00:57:52,720 --> 00:57:56,320
Speaker 3: Some people want to go with whoever the dominant seller

1028
00:57:56,360 --> 00:57:57,880
Speaker 3: in their market is to try to again get in

1029
00:57:57,920 --> 00:58:01,320
Speaker 3: front of more eyes. We really and liked the team

1030
00:58:01,360 --> 00:58:05,360
Speaker 3: at Access. Love Steph Streeter, I love Brian and felt

1031
00:58:05,480 --> 00:58:08,120
Speaker 3: like they were the best. They're the best partner for

1032
00:58:08,160 --> 00:58:08,640
Speaker 3: our business.

1033
00:58:08,920 --> 00:58:11,320
Speaker 1: Okay, but a lot of the shows you do, the

1034
00:58:11,360 --> 00:58:14,720
Speaker 1: club shows are the ones that get the most attention.

1035
00:58:14,960 --> 00:58:17,240
Speaker 1: For fees. It's one thing if you have one hundred

1036
00:58:17,280 --> 00:58:20,240
Speaker 1: dollars ticket in the fee is fifteen dollars. It's another

1037
00:58:20,280 --> 00:58:22,560
Speaker 1: thing if you have a twenty dollars ticket and the

1038
00:58:22,600 --> 00:58:25,400
Speaker 1: fees are fifteen dollars.

1039
00:58:26,920 --> 00:58:29,080
Speaker 3: I don't think it's first avenue we have fifteen dollars

1040
00:58:29,080 --> 00:58:30,160
Speaker 3: fees on twenty dollars tickets.

1041
00:58:30,200 --> 00:58:32,960
Speaker 2: I will go. I will go and check that right after.

1042
00:58:32,880 --> 00:58:35,000
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that you have specific but I you know,

1043
00:58:35,160 --> 00:58:38,280
Speaker 1: in terms of markets all over the US, this happens

1044
00:58:38,280 --> 00:58:42,360
Speaker 1: on a regular basis, right, And so.

1045
00:58:42,600 --> 00:58:46,760
Speaker 3: Again, like the fees is negotiated between the promoter of

1046
00:58:46,800 --> 00:58:51,200
Speaker 3: the venue and their ticketing provider. And so I'm not

1047
00:58:51,320 --> 00:58:57,200
Speaker 3: privy to how people necessarily set their fees, but certainly,

1048
00:58:58,080 --> 00:59:01,400
Speaker 3: you know, it's key factor. I would say, when people

1049
00:59:01,640 --> 00:59:02,720
Speaker 3: pick up a ticketing partner.

1050
00:59:03,080 --> 00:59:06,000
Speaker 1: Okay, So let's say first avenue, you own the building.

1051
00:59:06,640 --> 00:59:08,800
Speaker 1: Let's say for a sake of discussion, the ticket is

1052
00:59:08,880 --> 00:59:12,080
Speaker 1: twenty dollars. Every shows a little bit different. What would

1053
00:59:12,080 --> 00:59:13,360
Speaker 1: be the average fee on that.

1054
00:59:13,240 --> 00:59:19,040
Speaker 2: Ticket, probably four dollars?

1055
00:59:19,280 --> 00:59:26,120
Speaker 1: Okay, so very low. Okay. So club business, if you

1056
00:59:26,160 --> 00:59:30,160
Speaker 1: go back before your time, frequently was supported by the

1057
00:59:30,240 --> 00:59:33,360
Speaker 1: record companies. The record companies would buy tickets, they would

1058
00:59:33,400 --> 00:59:37,480
Speaker 1: put small bands on the road. That's pretty much evaporated.

1059
00:59:38,520 --> 00:59:42,640
Speaker 1: So therefore a lot of clubs went out of business.

1060
00:59:43,200 --> 00:59:48,520
Speaker 1: So what is the status of small venues today economically?

1061
00:59:50,040 --> 00:59:56,480
Speaker 3: Oh, it's hard, it's difficult. You know, the bands are amazing.

1062
00:59:56,600 --> 01:00:00,280
Speaker 3: I feel like there is a kind of proliferation of

1063
01:00:00,440 --> 01:00:04,240
Speaker 3: club level bands and do to streaming, folks have kind

1064
01:00:04,240 --> 01:00:08,680
Speaker 3: of easier discovery tools potentially in finding bands. But the

1065
01:00:08,720 --> 01:00:10,960
Speaker 3: economics of a club is just I mean, I don't

1066
01:00:11,000 --> 01:00:13,240
Speaker 3: think it's ever been harder, or even at First Avenue,

1067
01:00:13,240 --> 01:00:15,520
Speaker 3: I want to say, our costs are up thirty percent

1068
01:00:16,000 --> 01:00:19,400
Speaker 3: from pre pandemic. You know, everything's gone up due to inflation.

1069
01:00:20,120 --> 01:00:26,040
Speaker 3: Insurance is insane. You know, just all of the costs

1070
01:00:26,160 --> 01:00:28,920
Speaker 3: keep going up, and you don't want to pass it

1071
01:00:28,960 --> 01:00:31,600
Speaker 3: on to your customers one hundred percent because you want

1072
01:00:31,720 --> 01:00:34,600
Speaker 3: them to again, like enjoy going to a show and

1073
01:00:34,680 --> 01:00:36,920
Speaker 3: feel like they can afford to go to you know,

1074
01:00:36,960 --> 01:00:39,240
Speaker 3: we like to hopefully get people out to shows once

1075
01:00:39,320 --> 01:00:41,640
Speaker 3: or twice a month, right, and so you.

1076
01:00:41,600 --> 01:00:42,720
Speaker 2: Want them to have a good experience.

1077
01:00:42,920 --> 01:00:46,760
Speaker 3: You don't want them to feel like somebody described a

1078
01:00:46,760 --> 01:00:48,520
Speaker 3: club they went into that they that have felt like

1079
01:00:48,560 --> 01:00:51,320
Speaker 3: a money tornado, Like when you walked in the door,

1080
01:00:51,320 --> 01:00:53,280
Speaker 3: they just you know, they were picking you up and

1081
01:00:53,360 --> 01:00:55,400
Speaker 3: spinning around trying to get every dollar out of your pocket.

1082
01:00:55,440 --> 01:00:57,160
Speaker 3: You know, we don't want to We don't want to

1083
01:00:57,160 --> 01:01:02,440
Speaker 3: do that. But the the strains on running and probably

1084
01:01:02,480 --> 01:01:04,680
Speaker 3: you know any small business these days are pretty intense.

1085
01:01:05,240 --> 01:01:06,640
Speaker 1: So what's the overall margin?

1086
01:01:08,960 --> 01:01:11,320
Speaker 3: I mean, we try to hit six percent profit margin.

1087
01:01:11,600 --> 01:01:12,160
Speaker 2: That's our goal.

1088
01:01:12,360 --> 01:01:15,440
Speaker 1: Wow, that's really low. What about merch? Do you take

1089
01:01:15,440 --> 01:01:16,400
Speaker 1: a percentage of merch?

1090
01:01:18,000 --> 01:01:19,920
Speaker 3: We vary based on the rooms. You know, merch is

1091
01:01:19,960 --> 01:01:24,440
Speaker 3: negotiated as a deal point between the bookers and the

1092
01:01:24,480 --> 01:01:26,480
Speaker 3: agents when they're working out the deal.

1093
01:01:27,440 --> 01:01:31,200
Speaker 1: Okay, because there is blowback, especially from smaller acts saying, hey,

1094
01:01:31,200 --> 01:01:34,200
Speaker 1: we're there, we're struggling. Why don't we get one hundred

1095
01:01:34,240 --> 01:01:36,960
Speaker 1: percent of the merch? What would you say to them?

1096
01:01:37,680 --> 01:01:39,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I.

1097
01:01:39,240 --> 01:01:41,960
Speaker 3: Hear that, and I you know, the counter argument to

1098
01:01:42,000 --> 01:01:45,360
Speaker 3: that is, you know, there's areas in the venue that

1099
01:01:45,400 --> 01:01:48,480
Speaker 3: are reserved. There are expenses that go along with processing merch.

1100
01:01:48,880 --> 01:01:51,520
Speaker 3: Like I said, it's a deal point, and we'd like

1101
01:01:51,600 --> 01:01:54,520
Speaker 3: to view it as you know, we're an ecosystem. We're

1102
01:01:54,520 --> 01:01:57,360
Speaker 3: in this together to make it profitable for the band,

1103
01:01:57,440 --> 01:01:59,480
Speaker 3: to make sure that the venues can still stand business,

1104
01:01:59,520 --> 01:02:02,240
Speaker 3: to make sure the customers still have a great experience,

1105
01:02:02,840 --> 01:02:05,640
Speaker 3: and so you know, it all goes into the economics

1106
01:02:05,640 --> 01:02:08,440
Speaker 3: of a deal and making a show work for all parties.

1107
01:02:15,520 --> 01:02:17,880
Speaker 1: There have been all these stories in the media about

1108
01:02:17,920 --> 01:02:22,200
Speaker 1: younger generations consuming less alcohol. To what degree has that

1109
01:02:22,280 --> 01:02:24,400
Speaker 1: affected your business To what we do you see it?

1110
01:02:25,720 --> 01:02:30,200
Speaker 3: We see it hugely. I think I was on a panel.

1111
01:02:30,760 --> 01:02:33,480
Speaker 3: I was on a music biz panel and kind of

1112
01:02:34,240 --> 01:02:35,880
Speaker 3: throughout that point when I thought was kind of like

1113
01:02:36,080 --> 01:02:37,960
Speaker 3: a throw away point and actually get it ended up

1114
01:02:37,960 --> 01:02:42,080
Speaker 3: getting picked up by by Billboard and had some TikTok memes.

1115
01:02:42,840 --> 01:02:46,320
Speaker 3: So we're seeing it especially in our younger audience. You know,

1116
01:02:46,400 --> 01:02:50,880
Speaker 3: the older audience, they're still drinking to show to two beers,

1117
01:02:51,040 --> 01:02:55,000
Speaker 3: two drinks per person, but the younger audience, you know,

1118
01:02:55,040 --> 01:02:59,240
Speaker 3: the bars are just anemic these days, and so there's

1119
01:02:59,480 --> 01:03:02,920
Speaker 3: a few diferent theories floating around. One is just edibles,

1120
01:03:03,160 --> 01:03:06,760
Speaker 3: and it's much cheaper and easier to you know, pop

1121
01:03:06,760 --> 01:03:10,200
Speaker 3: an edible than it is to spend ten bucks on a.

1122
01:03:10,120 --> 01:03:11,240
Speaker 2: Beer ten bucks on a drink.

1123
01:03:12,880 --> 01:03:16,600
Speaker 3: The other theory is that, you know, this generation, they

1124
01:03:16,680 --> 01:03:20,800
Speaker 3: spent their formative kind of drinking education years in COVID,

1125
01:03:21,360 --> 01:03:25,320
Speaker 3: and so they might not even they don't necessarily.

1126
01:03:24,760 --> 01:03:26,320
Speaker 2: Know what they drink. They don't know what they like

1127
01:03:26,360 --> 01:03:27,920
Speaker 2: to drink. They don't know the.

1128
01:03:30,160 --> 01:03:33,040
Speaker 3: Structure the systems of going up to a bar and ordering,

1129
01:03:33,080 --> 01:03:35,480
Speaker 3: and that might be a little bit overwhelming, and so

1130
01:03:36,200 --> 01:03:39,840
Speaker 3: they just choose to not engage at all. Obviously, there's

1131
01:03:39,880 --> 01:03:45,040
Speaker 3: a mental health or a wellness which is beyond important, and.

1132
01:03:47,000 --> 01:03:48,640
Speaker 2: Not drinking seems to.

1133
01:03:50,600 --> 01:03:52,480
Speaker 3: I would say that it's great for your mental health

1134
01:03:52,480 --> 01:03:55,040
Speaker 3: and wellness, but not everyone seems to agree these days.

1135
01:03:55,600 --> 01:03:57,520
Speaker 3: So there's a number of different factors that I think

1136
01:03:58,240 --> 01:04:01,280
Speaker 3: going into effect of seeing our numbers at maybe half

1137
01:04:01,480 --> 01:04:05,080
Speaker 3: some some shows half two a third of what they

1138
01:04:05,120 --> 01:04:07,080
Speaker 3: would have been pre pandemic, you.

1139
01:04:07,040 --> 01:04:09,000
Speaker 1: Just own that or do you think of some other

1140
01:04:09,040 --> 01:04:10,200
Speaker 1: way to make up the revenue?

1141
01:04:11,320 --> 01:04:12,480
Speaker 2: You have to make up the revenue.

1142
01:04:12,720 --> 01:04:14,080
Speaker 3: I mean, if you don't make up the revenue, you're

1143
01:04:14,080 --> 01:04:16,400
Speaker 3: not going to be in business, right, So, you know,

1144
01:04:16,440 --> 01:04:18,920
Speaker 3: a lot of folks are I think after after the

1145
01:04:18,920 --> 01:04:23,240
Speaker 3: Billboard article came out, I got every single NA option

1146
01:04:23,640 --> 01:04:27,520
Speaker 3: under the sun reaching out, So certainly, you know, increasing

1147
01:04:27,520 --> 01:04:28,000
Speaker 3: the NA.

1148
01:04:27,920 --> 01:04:30,840
Speaker 2: Options non alcoholic sorry, yes.

1149
01:04:30,720 --> 01:04:37,760
Speaker 3: Not alcoholics, so non alcoholic beers, non alcoholic cocktails, root beer,

1150
01:04:37,800 --> 01:04:42,440
Speaker 3: et cetera. So also we're you know, advertising more like

1151
01:04:43,400 --> 01:04:45,960
Speaker 3: drink specials to make it easy to order at the bar,

1152
01:04:46,120 --> 01:04:49,160
Speaker 3: like okay, here's the here's the drink of the night.

1153
01:04:49,320 --> 01:04:51,440
Speaker 3: You don't need to think about what you're ordering, you

1154
01:04:51,440 --> 01:04:54,320
Speaker 3: don't need to stress out about it. Here, here's two

1155
01:04:54,360 --> 01:04:56,960
Speaker 3: options that you choose from. And so trying a very

1156
01:04:57,200 --> 01:04:58,640
Speaker 3: you know, a varied degree.

1157
01:05:00,040 --> 01:05:02,960
Speaker 1: How did you end up owning and running First Avenue.

1158
01:05:05,280 --> 01:05:10,880
Speaker 3: So my father was part of was best friends with

1159
01:05:11,080 --> 01:05:14,360
Speaker 3: the founder named Alan finger Hut. They were they would

1160
01:05:14,360 --> 01:05:19,000
Speaker 3: actually went to elementary school together, so they were best

1161
01:05:19,000 --> 01:05:22,960
Speaker 3: friends in nineteen seventy when Alan inherited a bunch of

1162
01:05:23,000 --> 01:05:24,360
Speaker 3: money and thought it would be a great idea to

1163
01:05:24,360 --> 01:05:27,200
Speaker 3: open a rock club. And so my dad came from

1164
01:05:27,280 --> 01:05:30,160
Speaker 3: a very you know, working class. His parents owned a

1165
01:05:30,160 --> 01:05:34,240
Speaker 3: little corner grocery store. He went to the University of Minnesota,

1166
01:05:34,240 --> 01:05:37,240
Speaker 3: I got his accounting degree, and so he you know,

1167
01:05:37,440 --> 01:05:40,040
Speaker 3: wor worked on the books and it was kind of

1168
01:05:40,040 --> 01:05:44,400
Speaker 3: a business confidant to Alan. So First Time Who opened

1169
01:05:44,400 --> 01:05:48,880
Speaker 3: in nineteen seventy and then was run locally for a

1170
01:05:48,920 --> 01:05:51,400
Speaker 3: couple of years and then run by a company out

1171
01:05:51,440 --> 01:05:54,760
Speaker 3: of Kansas City with renamed Uncle Sam's untill it then

1172
01:05:54,800 --> 01:05:58,480
Speaker 3: became First Avenue and the owner's share the operations came

1173
01:05:58,520 --> 01:06:03,520
Speaker 3: in house, and so my dad was kind of loosely

1174
01:06:03,560 --> 01:06:07,040
Speaker 3: associated with Alan in the club until two thousand and

1175
01:06:07,040 --> 01:06:11,640
Speaker 3: four when they had a falling out and they actually

1176
01:06:11,680 --> 01:06:14,440
Speaker 3: were part of an ownership group that purchased the property

1177
01:06:14,440 --> 01:06:17,400
Speaker 3: in two thousand and so, as part of the legal

1178
01:06:17,440 --> 01:06:20,560
Speaker 3: settlement for their falling out, my dad ended up with

1179
01:06:20,600 --> 01:06:25,040
Speaker 3: the property. Alan ended up with the operations. I think

1180
01:06:25,160 --> 01:06:26,680
Speaker 3: less than a year after that, I want to say,

1181
01:06:26,760 --> 01:06:29,240
Speaker 3: the operations went into bankruptcy, and so my dad, as

1182
01:06:30,000 --> 01:06:31,920
Speaker 3: the landlord, was able to purchase the assets at a

1183
01:06:31,960 --> 01:06:35,400
Speaker 3: bankruptcy in two thousand and four. I was working in

1184
01:06:35,520 --> 01:06:38,680
Speaker 3: Los Angeles working in TV and film production when he

1185
01:06:38,720 --> 01:06:40,800
Speaker 3: had a stroke in two thousand and nine, and so

1186
01:06:41,240 --> 01:06:44,000
Speaker 3: I hadn't been home in a while, and I flew

1187
01:06:44,000 --> 01:06:45,960
Speaker 3: home and stepped in the club and just fell in

1188
01:06:45,960 --> 01:06:48,520
Speaker 3: love with the main room and what First Avenue was

1189
01:06:48,600 --> 01:06:50,280
Speaker 3: and what it means to the people in Minneapolis and

1190
01:06:50,320 --> 01:06:54,120
Speaker 3: the impact it has and everything that it's about, and

1191
01:06:54,800 --> 01:06:56,240
Speaker 3: started kind of working under him.

1192
01:06:56,240 --> 01:07:01,200
Speaker 1: Then. Okay, so when you were growing up, was your

1193
01:07:01,400 --> 01:07:05,520
Speaker 1: father just the accountant for the club or was it like, hey,

1194
01:07:05,520 --> 01:07:07,200
Speaker 1: you can get into the club whenever you want, and

1195
01:07:07,200 --> 01:07:09,400
Speaker 1: you went all the time and took your friends.

1196
01:07:10,200 --> 01:07:12,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, sorry, I said that, long story. I did not

1197
01:07:12,280 --> 01:07:14,320
Speaker 3: grow up, as you know, the daughter of a rock

1198
01:07:14,360 --> 01:07:17,280
Speaker 3: club owner. Certainly not how my kids are growing up

1199
01:07:17,360 --> 01:07:19,560
Speaker 3: right where it's a cold, snowy day, let's take a

1200
01:07:19,560 --> 01:07:22,800
Speaker 3: soccer ball and kick it around the main room. But

1201
01:07:23,360 --> 01:07:27,320
Speaker 3: I grew up being obsessed with going to concerts, and

1202
01:07:27,400 --> 01:07:30,200
Speaker 3: actually having my dad involved in the club actually was

1203
01:07:30,200 --> 01:07:33,200
Speaker 3: a negative for me, because you know, I would sneak

1204
01:07:33,200 --> 01:07:35,680
Speaker 3: out of the house and take the bus downtown and

1205
01:07:36,560 --> 01:07:38,200
Speaker 3: show up at the club to go to concerts and

1206
01:07:38,240 --> 01:07:39,960
Speaker 3: kind of like put my hair over my face and

1207
01:07:41,120 --> 01:07:42,760
Speaker 3: try to hope no one recognize me so that they

1208
01:07:42,800 --> 01:07:44,800
Speaker 3: wouldn't call my dad to come and.

1209
01:07:44,760 --> 01:07:45,280
Speaker 2: Pick me up.

1210
01:07:46,960 --> 01:07:52,880
Speaker 1: Okay, you go to college in New York. People have

1211
01:07:52,920 --> 01:07:56,959
Speaker 1: no idea how sophisticated Minnesota is, although I will say,

1212
01:07:57,000 --> 01:07:58,720
Speaker 1: as cold as it is in the winter, that's how

1213
01:07:58,720 --> 01:08:01,480
Speaker 1: fucking hot it is in the summer. But what do

1214
01:08:01,560 --> 01:08:06,120
Speaker 1: people not understand about Minnesota.

1215
01:08:06,160 --> 01:08:10,840
Speaker 3: First of all, it is thirty five degrees today in January,

1216
01:08:11,040 --> 01:08:14,000
Speaker 3: and it feels like a fucking miracle. So it's not

1217
01:08:14,240 --> 01:08:19,600
Speaker 3: always cold in the winter people. What don't people understand?

1218
01:08:19,680 --> 01:08:21,439
Speaker 3: I mean, it is heaven on Earth. I think there's

1219
01:08:21,479 --> 01:08:25,960
Speaker 3: no better place in the world than Minnesota in like

1220
01:08:26,080 --> 01:08:29,880
Speaker 3: June July. So what the winter gives us? Yes, yes,

1221
01:08:29,960 --> 01:08:32,680
Speaker 3: it is cold. It is usually exceptionally cold, but it

1222
01:08:32,720 --> 01:08:36,719
Speaker 3: gives us a heartiness and an optimism and a real

1223
01:08:36,760 --> 01:08:39,200
Speaker 3: sense of gratitude because then the summer comes and it's

1224
01:08:39,240 --> 01:08:42,880
Speaker 3: like everyone's in a good mood. You're enjoying every minute

1225
01:08:42,960 --> 01:08:46,840
Speaker 3: it is. You know, it gives you a sense of seasons.

1226
01:08:46,840 --> 01:08:50,200
Speaker 3: It gives you a sense of inevitability. You know. I'm

1227
01:08:50,240 --> 01:08:53,960
Speaker 3: raising my kids here and I am so grateful for

1228
01:08:54,080 --> 01:08:57,280
Speaker 3: their ability to grow up in Minnesota because in a

1229
01:08:57,320 --> 01:08:58,800
Speaker 3: world where you have everything at the tip of your

1230
01:08:58,840 --> 01:09:01,760
Speaker 3: fingertips and everything is kind of designed around comfort, I

1231
01:09:01,760 --> 01:09:05,400
Speaker 3: think it's incredibly important to experience cold weather and to experience,

1232
01:09:06,320 --> 01:09:09,879
Speaker 3: you know, elements and nature that they can't always control.

1233
01:09:10,640 --> 01:09:14,880
Speaker 1: To what degree do those two things affect music business,

1234
01:09:14,920 --> 01:09:17,919
Speaker 1: both cold in the winter and wanting to be outside

1235
01:09:17,920 --> 01:09:18,439
Speaker 1: in the summer.

1236
01:09:19,880 --> 01:09:24,559
Speaker 3: So it's interesting we you know, looked at our capacity sold.

1237
01:09:24,960 --> 01:09:28,360
Speaker 3: You know, shows in January and Minnesota do exceptionally well,

1238
01:09:28,840 --> 01:09:31,360
Speaker 3: there's not there's not a lot of them, but the

1239
01:09:31,400 --> 01:09:33,400
Speaker 3: shows that we do have actually end up being you know,

1240
01:09:33,479 --> 01:09:37,360
Speaker 3: ten or fifteen percent sold above where our shows the

1241
01:09:37,400 --> 01:09:40,120
Speaker 3: rest of the year are. Like I said, I think

1242
01:09:41,240 --> 01:09:44,599
Speaker 3: having the inevitability of winter and having the experience of

1243
01:09:45,320 --> 01:09:50,000
Speaker 3: such extreme cold gives people a sense of joy and

1244
01:09:50,080 --> 01:09:52,960
Speaker 3: a sense of community. And I'm going to mispronounce it,

1245
01:09:52,960 --> 01:09:58,639
Speaker 3: but Heiger like like the joyousness of being together, especially

1246
01:09:58,640 --> 01:10:01,880
Speaker 3: in the winter, makes people more willing to go out,

1247
01:10:01,960 --> 01:10:05,320
Speaker 3: more willing to take risks on new bands, more willing

1248
01:10:05,400 --> 01:10:09,280
Speaker 3: to be a part of the live music community. You know,

1249
01:10:09,320 --> 01:10:11,679
Speaker 3: we hear all the time that you know, the Twin

1250
01:10:11,720 --> 01:10:13,960
Speaker 3: Cities punches above its weight in terms of ticket sales

1251
01:10:13,960 --> 01:10:17,200
Speaker 3: and in terms of interest and events. And I think

1252
01:10:17,479 --> 01:10:19,840
Speaker 3: a lot of it has to do with the fact that,

1253
01:10:20,360 --> 01:10:23,080
Speaker 3: you know, we're all here in negative ten degree weather.

1254
01:10:23,160 --> 01:10:26,040
Speaker 3: We all survived it together, and we want to be

1255
01:10:26,040 --> 01:10:27,479
Speaker 3: a part of something really cool and beautiful.

1256
01:10:28,720 --> 01:10:32,320
Speaker 1: So you end up leaving New York going to Los Angeles.

1257
01:10:32,680 --> 01:10:33,240
Speaker 1: How was that?

1258
01:10:35,479 --> 01:10:39,920
Speaker 3: The weather was great? The weather was fucking phenomenal, you know.

1259
01:10:40,360 --> 01:10:45,679
Speaker 3: I I went to NYU and I graduated right around

1260
01:10:45,680 --> 01:10:47,519
Speaker 3: September eleventh, and there weren't in jobs.

1261
01:10:47,560 --> 01:10:49,479
Speaker 2: And my friend most of my friends had gone to

1262
01:10:49,479 --> 01:10:50,120
Speaker 2: film school and.

1263
01:10:50,040 --> 01:10:52,960
Speaker 3: They were moving to LA So I moved to LA

1264
01:10:53,160 --> 01:10:55,559
Speaker 3: and had, you know, met some really wonderful friends.

1265
01:10:55,600 --> 01:10:57,360
Speaker 2: I met. My wife had a.

1266
01:10:57,360 --> 01:11:02,720
Speaker 3: Really beautiful experience, but personally, I'm just being thrilled to

1267
01:11:02,720 --> 01:11:03,640
Speaker 3: be back in Minnesota.

1268
01:11:04,600 --> 01:11:08,320
Speaker 1: Okay, your wife is in the film business, which is

1269
01:11:08,360 --> 01:11:12,080
Speaker 1: really concentrated in LA. How do you manage this?

1270
01:11:14,160 --> 01:11:14,439
Speaker 2: Yeah?

1271
01:11:14,479 --> 01:11:17,920
Speaker 3: She you know, I commuted for almost a decade. I

1272
01:11:17,920 --> 01:11:21,439
Speaker 3: would take the Red Eye out on Sunday and then

1273
01:11:21,880 --> 01:11:26,760
Speaker 3: come back on the seven fifty Thursday night flight. And

1274
01:11:26,800 --> 01:11:29,639
Speaker 3: so now we're in Minnesota. She's actually commuting. Her job

1275
01:11:29,640 --> 01:11:31,479
Speaker 3: works out of New York, so she's going to New

1276
01:11:31,560 --> 01:11:35,519
Speaker 3: York every other week. And maybe it's a secret to

1277
01:11:35,560 --> 01:11:37,759
Speaker 3: a happy marriage. You know, we've been together maybe sixteen

1278
01:11:37,800 --> 01:11:40,120
Speaker 3: years and are probably happier than ever before.

1279
01:11:40,439 --> 01:11:41,880
Speaker 1: How'd you meet her?

1280
01:11:42,360 --> 01:11:44,519
Speaker 2: We were set up old school?

1281
01:11:45,040 --> 01:11:47,240
Speaker 1: Really was it instant romance?

1282
01:11:48,840 --> 01:11:51,320
Speaker 2: It took a few dates.

1283
01:11:52,200 --> 01:11:54,880
Speaker 3: I was just out of a relationship and she was

1284
01:11:55,360 --> 01:11:58,960
Speaker 3: newly sober, so we had a few months to figure

1285
01:11:58,960 --> 01:11:59,479
Speaker 3: all that out.

1286
01:12:00,160 --> 01:12:04,439
Speaker 1: And what is it like being an out powerful business

1287
01:12:04,439 --> 01:12:08,320
Speaker 1: woman today is to what degree is their homophobia that

1288
01:12:08,360 --> 01:12:09,000
Speaker 1: you encounter?

1289
01:12:11,320 --> 01:12:12,400
Speaker 2: I'm really lucky.

1290
01:12:12,640 --> 01:12:16,120
Speaker 3: I mean I think going from you know, n Yu

1291
01:12:16,960 --> 01:12:22,240
Speaker 3: to the film industry to Minneapolis, have not encountered so

1292
01:12:22,439 --> 01:12:29,400
Speaker 3: much homophobia and and feel like, you know, again, maybe

1293
01:12:29,400 --> 01:12:32,799
Speaker 3: stepping into a family business and stepping into a thriving

1294
01:12:32,840 --> 01:12:37,080
Speaker 3: business and having such a great team. I feel very

1295
01:12:37,120 --> 01:12:45,360
Speaker 3: fortunate to have not experienced really that much negative negative

1296
01:12:45,400 --> 01:12:48,040
Speaker 3: impacts due to gender sexuality.

1297
01:12:48,240 --> 01:12:52,639
Speaker 4: What about sexism, It's certainly there.

1298
01:12:52,800 --> 01:12:55,120
Speaker 3: It's certainly there. I remember, you know, a fair amount.

1299
01:12:55,160 --> 01:12:59,400
Speaker 3: I'm I like to, you know, make relationships and reach out,

1300
01:12:59,439 --> 01:13:05,640
Speaker 3: and certainly there have been a few missing, mistaken outreaches.

1301
01:13:06,800 --> 01:13:10,680
Speaker 3: But you know, at least nothing outright that I that

1302
01:13:10,760 --> 01:13:13,680
Speaker 3: I can recall, which I again feel like I have

1303
01:13:13,760 --> 01:13:15,560
Speaker 3: to just express how grateful I am because I know

1304
01:13:15,600 --> 01:13:17,880
Speaker 3: that's not a lot of people's experiences.

1305
01:13:18,400 --> 01:13:22,080
Speaker 1: Okay, so your father has this stroke. Are you coming

1306
01:13:22,120 --> 01:13:24,960
Speaker 1: back to Minneapolis to run the club reluctantly? Or are

1307
01:13:25,000 --> 01:13:26,519
Speaker 1: you saying this is what I want to do, or

1308
01:13:26,600 --> 01:13:29,559
Speaker 1: you say, well i'll manage it for a month. What

1309
01:13:29,560 --> 01:13:31,000
Speaker 1: what goes for your head?

1310
01:13:32,040 --> 01:13:33,840
Speaker 3: I was just stepping in to make sure, you know,

1311
01:13:33,920 --> 01:13:38,400
Speaker 3: nothing got messed up while he was sick. And really

1312
01:13:39,560 --> 01:13:42,960
Speaker 3: my thought process was, okay, there's you know, two big companies.

1313
01:13:43,680 --> 01:13:44,800
Speaker 2: I wonder who I'm going to.

1314
01:13:44,800 --> 01:13:46,519
Speaker 3: Sell this to because I was pretty happy in my

1315
01:13:46,560 --> 01:13:49,519
Speaker 3: career and I just met my wife and pretty settled,

1316
01:13:50,479 --> 01:13:52,920
Speaker 3: and so I was like, okay, I wonder you know

1317
01:13:52,960 --> 01:13:54,840
Speaker 3: which liven sure e g. I wonder this will this

1318
01:13:54,880 --> 01:13:56,840
Speaker 3: will be fun. Who's who's going to be the highest better?

1319
01:13:57,880 --> 01:13:59,640
Speaker 3: And again, like I said, I just stepped to the

1320
01:13:59,680 --> 01:14:02,920
Speaker 3: main room and kind of the impact of what First

1321
01:14:02,920 --> 01:14:07,000
Speaker 3: Avenue is, what it means, the legacy that it carries,

1322
01:14:07,720 --> 01:14:10,439
Speaker 3: just was really intense. And so you know, when I

1323
01:14:10,479 --> 01:14:13,720
Speaker 3: met these folks, and I think one of the quotes was,

1324
01:14:14,640 --> 01:14:16,960
Speaker 3: you know, I said, okay, well, if you're interested, why

1325
01:14:16,960 --> 01:14:19,360
Speaker 3: do you come to Minneapolis, see the room, see what's

1326
01:14:19,400 --> 01:14:22,160
Speaker 3: going on. And they said, well, I don't just see it.

1327
01:14:22,160 --> 01:14:24,400
Speaker 3: A club's a club. My guys say it's good. And

1328
01:14:24,439 --> 01:14:26,240
Speaker 3: that was the moment I said, Okay, I'm just going

1329
01:14:26,280 --> 01:14:28,599
Speaker 3: to have to do it. This can't happen.

1330
01:14:29,560 --> 01:14:32,599
Speaker 1: And you have a sibling too, right, yep?

1331
01:14:32,640 --> 01:14:34,880
Speaker 2: I have an older sister. She's not involved. She's in

1332
01:14:34,920 --> 01:14:35,599
Speaker 2: Hood River.

1333
01:14:35,520 --> 01:14:38,680
Speaker 1: Organ okay, and to what degree she involved? Financially?

1334
01:14:41,200 --> 01:14:42,080
Speaker 2: I own one hundred percent.

1335
01:14:42,880 --> 01:14:46,719
Speaker 1: Okay. So this is a sophisticated business. People think, oh, yeah,

1336
01:14:46,880 --> 01:14:48,840
Speaker 1: you sell tickets, you open the door, you make money.

1337
01:14:49,600 --> 01:14:52,559
Speaker 1: So your father is out of the picture for a while.

1338
01:14:53,080 --> 01:14:55,800
Speaker 1: You're there how do you come up to speed and

1339
01:14:55,800 --> 01:14:57,160
Speaker 1: what mistakes do you make?

1340
01:14:59,160 --> 01:15:03,120
Speaker 3: Oh, every mistake, every mistake under the book. I was

1341
01:15:03,200 --> 01:15:06,840
Speaker 3: lucky that my dad ended up recovering within a few months,

1342
01:15:07,160 --> 01:15:09,720
Speaker 3: and so I really got, you know, to learn under

1343
01:15:09,800 --> 01:15:14,120
Speaker 3: him and to watch him manage. But in terms of

1344
01:15:14,160 --> 01:15:16,640
Speaker 3: I also I am not a talent buyer, and that

1345
01:15:16,720 --> 01:15:19,960
Speaker 3: I think is the hardest job in the world, and

1346
01:15:20,000 --> 01:15:26,360
Speaker 3: really the quarterback of the music club world. So I

1347
01:15:26,400 --> 01:15:29,520
Speaker 3: again was so lucky to step in the most incredible

1348
01:15:29,520 --> 01:15:32,880
Speaker 3: team at First Avenue, Nate and Sonya and Ashley just.

1349
01:15:32,920 --> 01:15:36,480
Speaker 2: Really really incredible, incredible folks.

1350
01:15:37,080 --> 01:15:40,679
Speaker 1: So how long does a concert buyer last at First Avenue?

1351
01:15:42,520 --> 01:15:42,920
Speaker 3: How long?

1352
01:15:43,040 --> 01:15:44,160
Speaker 2: Like how long are they in the venue?

1353
01:15:45,080 --> 01:15:46,120
Speaker 1: How long before they move on?

1354
01:15:50,120 --> 01:15:54,679
Speaker 3: Hopefully never the concert buyers? I mean, the thing about

1355
01:15:54,680 --> 01:15:58,840
Speaker 3: Minnesota is people we call it a boomerang state because

1356
01:15:59,000 --> 01:16:01,360
Speaker 3: people who grew up here, even if they leave, like

1357
01:16:01,360 --> 01:16:04,439
Speaker 3: like me, they tend to come back. And once people

1358
01:16:04,479 --> 01:16:07,360
Speaker 3: move here, they tend to not leave.

1359
01:16:07,120 --> 01:16:09,240
Speaker 2: Because it's it's.

1360
01:16:08,720 --> 01:16:12,000
Speaker 3: So amazing, as I've talked about before, and so we

1361
01:16:12,040 --> 01:16:14,679
Speaker 3: have our customers, you know, from the time that they

1362
01:16:15,400 --> 01:16:19,080
Speaker 3: first discover live music. I'm fourteen fifteen, We do you

1363
01:16:19,120 --> 01:16:22,840
Speaker 3: know the rock and roll Playhouse for kids? You know music,

1364
01:16:23,000 --> 01:16:24,920
Speaker 3: So we try to get them at age two, right, we'll.

1365
01:16:25,000 --> 01:16:26,840
Speaker 1: Tell us about the rock and roll of playhouse.

1366
01:16:28,160 --> 01:16:31,360
Speaker 3: Oh it's really amazing, you know, working with the Brooken

1367
01:16:31,360 --> 01:16:36,160
Speaker 3: Bulf folks. But so it's Saturday or Sunday mornings a theme,

1368
01:16:36,240 --> 01:16:39,200
Speaker 3: so Taylor Swift for kids or you know my son.

1369
01:16:39,280 --> 01:16:40,519
Speaker 2: I have a nine year old son.

1370
01:16:40,560 --> 01:16:43,320
Speaker 3: He's obsessed with Green Day, Like it's all all he

1371
01:16:43,400 --> 01:16:45,640
Speaker 3: listens to, all he ever wants to play. It's just

1372
01:16:45,760 --> 01:16:48,400
Speaker 3: his the beal and end all of his musical experience

1373
01:16:48,479 --> 01:16:50,720
Speaker 3: right now. So we did the you know rock and

1374
01:16:50,840 --> 01:16:53,559
Speaker 3: roll Playhouse plays Green Day and it was all punk

1375
01:16:53,640 --> 01:16:55,920
Speaker 3: music and kids showing up in mohawks. It was the

1376
01:16:55,920 --> 01:16:59,479
Speaker 3: most fun. And really kids just get to come and

1377
01:16:59,560 --> 01:17:01,679
Speaker 3: run around. I think our theory is, well, they can't

1378
01:17:01,680 --> 01:17:03,880
Speaker 3: do any they can't do much worse damage than drunk

1379
01:17:03,880 --> 01:17:05,880
Speaker 3: people can do, so this won't be that big of

1380
01:17:05,920 --> 01:17:09,960
Speaker 3: a deal. And you know, like I said, we see

1381
01:17:10,200 --> 01:17:12,400
Speaker 3: concert going and we see the live music experience as

1382
01:17:12,439 --> 01:17:13,640
Speaker 3: being a lifestyle.

1383
01:17:13,640 --> 01:17:17,960
Speaker 2: Not just something you do, not just you know, not

1384
01:17:18,000 --> 01:17:18,599
Speaker 2: just something.

1385
01:17:18,360 --> 01:17:21,400
Speaker 3: To avoid your everyday life, but really like as kind

1386
01:17:21,400 --> 01:17:24,120
Speaker 3: of the heart and soul of what makes life worth living.

1387
01:17:24,560 --> 01:17:27,640
Speaker 3: So the earlier that we can introduce kids to that

1388
01:17:27,720 --> 01:17:32,080
Speaker 3: experience and have them see the joy and the positivity

1389
01:17:32,080 --> 01:17:33,840
Speaker 3: and all the amazing things that live music can do

1390
01:17:34,360 --> 01:17:37,040
Speaker 3: for your soul and for your well being, the better.

1391
01:17:38,040 --> 01:17:41,559
Speaker 1: So let's say, first avenue to make the numbers work,

1392
01:17:41,920 --> 01:17:43,519
Speaker 1: how many dates do you want a year?

1393
01:17:45,280 --> 01:17:47,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, so in the different venues, you know, we have

1394
01:17:47,360 --> 01:17:49,000
Speaker 3: different KPIs you try to hit.

1395
01:17:49,360 --> 01:17:50,160
Speaker 2: I think first.

1396
01:17:49,920 --> 01:17:55,200
Speaker 3: Avenue tell people what that is key performance indicators, so

1397
01:17:55,400 --> 01:17:56,960
Speaker 3: you know, metrics, metrics.

1398
01:17:56,560 --> 01:17:57,200
Speaker 2: That we try to hit.

1399
01:17:58,479 --> 01:18:00,200
Speaker 3: So we have you know, the seven Street End Tree,

1400
01:18:00,240 --> 01:18:03,320
Speaker 3: which is our two hundred and fifty cap room. You know,

1401
01:18:03,360 --> 01:18:05,400
Speaker 3: we want to do three hundred and twenty days. We

1402
01:18:05,400 --> 01:18:08,160
Speaker 3: want to effectively. I think last year maybe we did

1403
01:18:08,200 --> 01:18:10,040
Speaker 3: three hundred and sixty days, So we want to be

1404
01:18:10,080 --> 01:18:13,679
Speaker 3: open almost every day. The main room, which is fifteen

1405
01:18:13,760 --> 01:18:16,880
Speaker 3: hundred and fifty capacity. Most well known were Prince Shop,

1406
01:18:16,920 --> 01:18:22,280
Speaker 3: Purple Rain and Still you know, carrying on the legacy

1407
01:18:22,320 --> 01:18:27,559
Speaker 3: of the Replacements and Whoscredo in Soul Asylum and all

1408
01:18:27,600 --> 01:18:30,160
Speaker 3: the amazing bands of the Minneapolis scene.

1409
01:18:30,760 --> 01:18:31,599
Speaker 2: That's fifteen fifty.

1410
01:18:31,640 --> 01:18:33,920
Speaker 3: We want to do maybe one hundred and eighty one

1411
01:18:34,000 --> 01:18:36,920
Speaker 3: hundred and ninety shows a year. We have a Palace

1412
01:18:37,000 --> 01:18:40,320
Speaker 3: Theater which is twenty three hundred. It's a ga floor

1413
01:18:40,320 --> 01:18:42,640
Speaker 3: and a seated balcony. You know, maybe we're trying to

1414
01:18:42,680 --> 01:18:44,400
Speaker 3: do sixty shows a year there. So we vary it

1415
01:18:44,439 --> 01:18:45,080
Speaker 3: based on the room.

1416
01:18:45,880 --> 01:18:49,960
Speaker 1: So you come to Minnesota, you have one venue, how

1417
01:18:49,960 --> 01:18:51,559
Speaker 1: do you end up with seven venues?

1418
01:18:54,240 --> 01:18:55,120
Speaker 2: It turns out.

1419
01:18:55,200 --> 01:18:57,240
Speaker 3: Running a venue is really hard and a lot of

1420
01:18:57,280 --> 01:19:00,439
Speaker 3: people don't like to do it. So, you know, I

1421
01:19:00,479 --> 01:19:02,519
Speaker 3: stepped in in two thousand and nine. We had first

1422
01:19:02,520 --> 01:19:07,040
Speaker 3: avenue in the seventh Street Entry, and we were booking

1423
01:19:07,400 --> 01:19:09,720
Speaker 3: a lot of shows outside of our venues. You know,

1424
01:19:09,840 --> 01:19:11,680
Speaker 3: we want to be we want to be able to

1425
01:19:11,720 --> 01:19:14,800
Speaker 3: service artists at every stage of their career when they

1426
01:19:14,800 --> 01:19:18,519
Speaker 3: come to Minnesota, if you're just starting out, if it's

1427
01:19:18,520 --> 01:19:20,840
Speaker 3: your first play in the state of the country, all

1428
01:19:20,880 --> 01:19:22,960
Speaker 3: the way up to like building your fan base here,

1429
01:19:23,479 --> 01:19:27,439
Speaker 3: giving you a solid home base and helping helping them build.

1430
01:19:27,240 --> 01:19:31,080
Speaker 2: Their career and their fan base. So, you know, we started.

1431
01:19:30,800 --> 01:19:34,800
Speaker 3: Doing shows at rooms around town, and we were doing

1432
01:19:34,880 --> 01:19:37,040
Speaker 3: a whole lot at this this venue called the Turf Club.

1433
01:19:37,160 --> 01:19:39,400
Speaker 3: So you know, the economics of the business. If you

1434
01:19:39,439 --> 01:19:42,719
Speaker 3: don't oh, if you don't have the inside, it's pretty

1435
01:19:42,720 --> 01:19:45,040
Speaker 3: hard to make it work. So we just met with

1436
01:19:45,080 --> 01:19:46,639
Speaker 3: the owner and he said, you know what, I got

1437
01:19:46,760 --> 01:19:48,760
Speaker 3: two bars, and my wife says, that's one too many.

1438
01:19:48,880 --> 01:19:53,800
Speaker 3: So we bought the Turf Club and then we uh

1439
01:19:53,840 --> 01:19:56,040
Speaker 3: the cityct polishly came to us and wanted to open

1440
01:19:56,680 --> 01:19:59,559
Speaker 3: the or renovate the Palace. Theater had been dark for

1441
01:19:59,600 --> 01:20:02,960
Speaker 3: maybe years. I'm didn't get my numbers wrong, but they

1442
01:20:02,960 --> 01:20:05,040
Speaker 3: wanted to They wanted to renovate it. They wanted a

1443
01:20:05,080 --> 01:20:09,920
Speaker 3: local partner to help promote it. So we stepped in

1444
01:20:09,960 --> 01:20:13,080
Speaker 3: along with our great partners from Chicago, Jam and Jerry Michaelson,

1445
01:20:13,760 --> 01:20:17,000
Speaker 3: and we worked on the renovation that opened in twenty seventeen,

1446
01:20:18,160 --> 01:20:21,479
Speaker 3: and then the we were doing a bunch of shows

1447
01:20:21,479 --> 01:20:24,560
Speaker 3: also at the fine Line. Those folks didn't want to

1448
01:20:24,560 --> 01:20:27,880
Speaker 3: operate anymore, so they came to us. We have a

1449
01:20:28,280 --> 01:20:32,400
Speaker 3: thousand seat historic theater called the Fitzgerald in Saint Paul.

1450
01:20:33,520 --> 01:20:35,000
Speaker 3: You know the radio station. They didn't want to own

1451
01:20:35,000 --> 01:20:37,160
Speaker 3: that anymore. So we kind of became, I think the

1452
01:20:37,200 --> 01:20:41,040
Speaker 3: go tos of when people didn't want to operate their

1453
01:20:41,120 --> 01:20:44,640
Speaker 3: venues anymore. I think we were seen as good operators,

1454
01:20:44,680 --> 01:20:48,720
Speaker 3: good local partners, try to operate, you know, ethically.

1455
01:20:48,520 --> 01:20:50,439
Speaker 2: And well and.

1456
01:20:51,920 --> 01:20:55,120
Speaker 3: With the full way to the community of mind. So

1457
01:20:55,680 --> 01:20:57,960
Speaker 3: that's how that's how we grew and then were developing

1458
01:20:58,000 --> 01:21:03,840
Speaker 3: an amphitheater. Will start construction soon hopefully, and so that'll

1459
01:21:03,880 --> 01:21:07,920
Speaker 3: be an eighty two hundred boutique urban amphitheater right on

1460
01:21:07,960 --> 01:21:11,920
Speaker 3: the Mississippi River in a neighborhood called North Minneapolis. It's

1461
01:21:11,920 --> 01:21:15,759
Speaker 3: a really kind of marginalized, disenfranchised community. So that project

1462
01:21:15,800 --> 01:21:18,280
Speaker 3: is aiming to be more than just a stage and

1463
01:21:19,240 --> 01:21:24,240
Speaker 3: seating area, but really generating renewal and revival for the

1464
01:21:24,280 --> 01:21:25,320
Speaker 3: local community as well.

1465
01:21:25,640 --> 01:21:28,839
Speaker 1: Okay, you're the operator to what degree in these cases

1466
01:21:28,880 --> 01:21:30,200
Speaker 1: do you own the facility?

1467
01:21:33,080 --> 01:21:37,000
Speaker 3: We own all the buildings. We have one lease, but

1468
01:21:37,040 --> 01:21:38,520
Speaker 3: we owned the properties for the others.

1469
01:21:38,960 --> 01:21:41,800
Speaker 1: Okay, and Jerry Michaelson as your partner in one theater.

1470
01:21:41,840 --> 01:21:44,560
Speaker 1: Where did the money come for the rest of the places.

1471
01:21:46,760 --> 01:21:52,680
Speaker 3: It came from loans and it came from you know,

1472
01:21:52,880 --> 01:21:57,840
Speaker 3: we I am fortunate in that, you know, money is

1473
01:21:57,840 --> 01:22:02,160
Speaker 3: not my as an owners, my motivator, and so I

1474
01:22:02,200 --> 01:22:04,880
Speaker 3: put all profits and all revenue kind of back back

1475
01:22:04,920 --> 01:22:05,639
Speaker 3: into the companies.

1476
01:22:12,640 --> 01:22:17,040
Speaker 1: Okay, you talk about building an amphitheater. Generally speaking, amphitheaters

1477
01:22:17,040 --> 01:22:20,679
Speaker 1: are controlled by Live Nation and even people in markets

1478
01:22:20,680 --> 01:22:24,360
Speaker 1: where they or not have had hard times. So how

1479
01:22:24,400 --> 01:22:26,559
Speaker 1: do you plan to compete?

1480
01:22:27,680 --> 01:22:28,280
Speaker 2: That is a.

1481
01:22:28,360 --> 01:22:30,840
Speaker 3: Great question, all the more reason to come back on

1482
01:22:30,880 --> 01:22:32,800
Speaker 3: your podcast in three years and I can give you

1483
01:22:32,840 --> 01:22:33,320
Speaker 3: the update.

1484
01:22:34,320 --> 01:22:36,640
Speaker 1: Okay, then let's flip the story over. You like to

1485
01:22:36,680 --> 01:22:39,519
Speaker 1: be the Minnesota partner for all these acts that used

1486
01:22:39,560 --> 01:22:42,160
Speaker 1: to mean, well, you know, you played them in the club,

1487
01:22:42,200 --> 01:22:45,080
Speaker 1: you played them in the Excel Center. That doesn't really

1488
01:22:45,120 --> 01:22:46,559
Speaker 1: happen anymore, right.

1489
01:22:47,920 --> 01:22:49,320
Speaker 2: No, no, it doesn't.

1490
01:22:50,160 --> 01:22:53,120
Speaker 3: And I think maybe we're the you know, fortunate or

1491
01:22:53,200 --> 01:22:56,920
Speaker 3: not fortunate to not have that kind of arena backdrop.

1492
01:22:56,960 --> 01:23:00,680
Speaker 3: You know, we kind of started with Fresh Eyes a

1493
01:23:00,720 --> 01:23:06,800
Speaker 3: decade or so ago, but certainly, you know, listening to

1494
01:23:06,840 --> 01:23:10,840
Speaker 3: your podcasts and knowing the history of the industry, that

1495
01:23:10,840 --> 01:23:12,160
Speaker 3: that has been an impact for sure.

1496
01:23:13,080 --> 01:23:17,360
Speaker 1: And you're an independent there in the Minneapolis area. If

1497
01:23:17,360 --> 01:23:20,200
Speaker 1: they don't go with you, what's your competition.

1498
01:23:21,320 --> 01:23:23,800
Speaker 3: Live Nation and the other We have other independent venues

1499
01:23:23,800 --> 01:23:28,479
Speaker 3: in town also, but Live Nation has competing venues at

1500
01:23:28,640 --> 01:23:29,320
Speaker 3: most levels.

1501
01:23:29,600 --> 01:23:31,840
Speaker 1: And so how do you end up getting the talent

1502
01:23:31,920 --> 01:23:33,080
Speaker 1: as opposed to Live Nation.

1503
01:23:35,800 --> 01:23:40,160
Speaker 3: I think a combination of ky, you're going to make

1504
01:23:40,240 --> 01:23:41,320
Speaker 3: me reveal all my secrets.

1505
01:23:41,320 --> 01:23:42,240
Speaker 2: I don't know if I can do that.

1506
01:23:42,840 --> 01:23:46,200
Speaker 1: No, you know, no way, you don't say anything you

1507
01:23:46,240 --> 01:23:50,760
Speaker 1: don't want to say. But is it because you're more localized,

1508
01:23:50,920 --> 01:23:53,439
Speaker 1: or you have a better sales bitch, or the numbers

1509
01:23:53,439 --> 01:23:57,200
Speaker 1: are better? Generally? What gets you the talent?

1510
01:23:58,000 --> 01:24:00,320
Speaker 3: Like I said, I'm not a talent buyer, But I

1511
01:24:00,360 --> 01:24:03,200
Speaker 3: do think that we have the best team of anyone

1512
01:24:03,360 --> 01:24:06,120
Speaker 3: anywhere in the country. I mean, I just can't say

1513
01:24:06,800 --> 01:24:09,559
Speaker 3: enough amazing things about you know, everyone who works at

1514
01:24:09,560 --> 01:24:12,040
Speaker 3: First Avenue works there because they really care, you know,

1515
01:24:12,120 --> 01:24:13,720
Speaker 3: because they love the place and they want to see

1516
01:24:13,720 --> 01:24:15,880
Speaker 3: it succeed and they want to do the very best

1517
01:24:15,920 --> 01:24:20,439
Speaker 3: they can for the mission. And I also think we

1518
01:24:20,439 --> 01:24:22,639
Speaker 3: you know, we have the best rooms without a doubt.

1519
01:24:22,640 --> 01:24:25,640
Speaker 3: I don't I wouldn't want to, you know, operate a

1520
01:24:25,720 --> 01:24:28,080
Speaker 3: room that I didn't think was the best venue of

1521
01:24:28,120 --> 01:24:32,240
Speaker 3: its size in the market. We go out of our

1522
01:24:32,240 --> 01:24:35,400
Speaker 3: way to treat people really well. We are the local guys,

1523
01:24:35,560 --> 01:24:38,360
Speaker 3: you know. We are committed to this community. We're committing

1524
01:24:38,360 --> 01:24:41,720
Speaker 3: to doing everything we can to nurture and sustain the

1525
01:24:41,760 --> 01:24:45,519
Speaker 3: concert going community of the Twin Cities. And so I

1526
01:24:45,520 --> 01:24:48,960
Speaker 3: think the you know, bands get that. Some don't, but

1527
01:24:49,600 --> 01:24:50,920
Speaker 3: you know, a lot of bands want to.

1528
01:24:50,920 --> 01:24:51,439
Speaker 2: Be a part of it.

1529
01:24:51,479 --> 01:24:53,960
Speaker 3: They see what we've built here, They see the job

1530
01:24:54,000 --> 01:24:56,400
Speaker 3: that we do. They see that, you know, they know

1531
01:24:56,479 --> 01:24:58,840
Speaker 3: everything is going to be one hundred percent taking care

1532
01:24:58,920 --> 01:25:02,280
Speaker 3: of all eyes dotted, all teas cross. They want to

1533
01:25:02,320 --> 01:25:04,080
Speaker 3: play the best rooms. We just put in, you know,

1534
01:25:04,680 --> 01:25:08,040
Speaker 3: the brand new state of the art sound system, the

1535
01:25:08,080 --> 01:25:10,880
Speaker 3: first L two installation in the country. We have, you know,

1536
01:25:11,000 --> 01:25:13,439
Speaker 3: the best facilities, and we go out of our way

1537
01:25:13,479 --> 01:25:17,439
Speaker 3: to create the best experiences for bands and for artists

1538
01:25:17,479 --> 01:25:18,440
Speaker 3: and for customers.

1539
01:25:18,640 --> 01:25:22,320
Speaker 1: Okay, as one goes north in Minnesota becomes more rural,

1540
01:25:22,960 --> 01:25:26,120
Speaker 1: there is Dluth. You go up north, you know there

1541
01:25:26,120 --> 01:25:29,479
Speaker 1: are other things. Do you want to expand do you

1542
01:25:29,600 --> 01:25:33,160
Speaker 1: do shows there? Or are you Minneapolis Saint Paul focused?

1543
01:25:33,920 --> 01:25:35,599
Speaker 2: Right, we do a couple of shows in Duluth.

1544
01:25:37,040 --> 01:25:40,960
Speaker 3: I think, you know, we will try to service the

1545
01:25:41,040 --> 01:25:43,640
Speaker 3: artists wherever they want to play. We kind of we

1546
01:25:43,960 --> 01:25:47,880
Speaker 3: view our responsibility as making sure that the artist has

1547
01:25:47,920 --> 01:25:51,600
Speaker 3: the best experience and plays the right room in the

1548
01:25:51,680 --> 01:25:53,920
Speaker 3: right city at the right town. And so we have

1549
01:25:54,000 --> 01:25:57,920
Speaker 3: done shows in Duluth. We've done shows, like I said,

1550
01:25:58,240 --> 01:26:02,760
Speaker 3: at outdoor venues, at other folks venues. It's not you know,

1551
01:26:03,240 --> 01:26:06,120
Speaker 3: in the plans right now to build our own venue.

1552
01:26:06,200 --> 01:26:08,880
Speaker 3: But like I said, like we want to service the bands.

1553
01:26:09,760 --> 01:26:13,439
Speaker 1: So if I'm coming to Minneapolis and I can sell

1554
01:26:13,439 --> 01:26:17,040
Speaker 1: out First Avenue and I want to play more in

1555
01:26:17,120 --> 01:26:19,400
Speaker 1: your area, how many places.

1556
01:26:19,000 --> 01:26:22,760
Speaker 2: Can I play larger than First Avenue or No?

1557
01:26:22,760 --> 01:26:26,280
Speaker 1: No, Like I come, I can sell out First Avenue Minneapolis,

1558
01:26:26,520 --> 01:26:29,040
Speaker 1: I say, Dana, I'd like to play more in the

1559
01:26:29,080 --> 01:26:31,320
Speaker 1: Minnesota area. Do you say, well, you know, after you

1560
01:26:31,400 --> 01:26:34,479
Speaker 1: sell a thousand tickets, maybe de Luthen that's it. Or

1561
01:26:34,479 --> 01:26:37,160
Speaker 1: are there are other markets in Minnesota that you can play.

1562
01:26:38,479 --> 01:26:41,280
Speaker 3: Many? Yeah, the Twin Cities are the major metropolitan area.

1563
01:26:41,439 --> 01:26:46,960
Speaker 3: There is a five thousand capacity Amphitheater, you know, maybe

1564
01:26:47,000 --> 01:26:52,240
Speaker 3: an hour north. There's Rochester that has the Mayo that

1565
01:26:52,280 --> 01:26:56,400
Speaker 3: they've got room down there. There's Mankato. So there's other

1566
01:26:56,479 --> 01:26:59,400
Speaker 3: like tertiary markets that people can play in Minnesota.

1567
01:27:00,400 --> 01:27:02,719
Speaker 1: And that Amphitheater is that a Live Nation.

1568
01:27:02,600 --> 01:27:05,160
Speaker 2: Amphitheater, No, that's a man at Amphtheater.

1569
01:27:06,360 --> 01:27:10,000
Speaker 1: Okay, so you don't do the buying, what do you do?

1570
01:27:12,120 --> 01:27:22,959
Speaker 3: I do the kind of management, oversight, business operations, new venues,

1571
01:27:23,000 --> 01:27:27,280
Speaker 3: the amphitheaters is taking up you know, a large majority

1572
01:27:27,320 --> 01:27:31,200
Speaker 3: of my time, but also kind of staff management, and

1573
01:27:32,880 --> 01:27:34,840
Speaker 3: again like the financial side of things.

1574
01:27:35,280 --> 01:27:39,960
Speaker 1: Okay, everything's different post COVID. But how often are you

1575
01:27:40,040 --> 01:27:42,880
Speaker 1: showing up at these venues and at these shows?

1576
01:27:43,240 --> 01:27:45,519
Speaker 3: Oh? I try to get to four venues a week,

1577
01:27:45,600 --> 01:27:47,720
Speaker 3: or you know, I try to go out two nights

1578
01:27:47,720 --> 01:27:52,280
Speaker 3: a week more, you know, in this in the busier months.

1579
01:27:52,680 --> 01:27:54,439
Speaker 1: And does every employee know you?

1580
01:27:58,040 --> 01:27:59,080
Speaker 2: Most do?

1581
01:27:59,160 --> 01:28:00,720
Speaker 3: I'm trying to think sometimes, you know, if we have

1582
01:28:00,720 --> 01:28:03,400
Speaker 3: a new employee or we have about four hundred employees.

1583
01:28:03,400 --> 01:28:05,640
Speaker 3: So I don't want to say every single one, but

1584
01:28:05,920 --> 01:28:08,200
Speaker 3: I like to talk to the employees. I like to

1585
01:28:08,240 --> 01:28:11,360
Speaker 3: introduce myself, so I try to make sure that that

1586
01:28:11,880 --> 01:28:12,439
Speaker 3: I meet them.

1587
01:28:12,920 --> 01:28:14,479
Speaker 1: Are you working seven days a week?

1588
01:28:15,280 --> 01:28:15,479
Speaker 4: Yeah?

1589
01:28:15,520 --> 01:28:16,639
Speaker 2: Of course we have all right.

1590
01:28:16,800 --> 01:28:19,519
Speaker 1: That's why I'm asking. And you know, there's a great

1591
01:28:19,560 --> 01:28:22,479
Speaker 1: line at Katzenberg at Disney. If you don't come in

1592
01:28:22,520 --> 01:28:25,160
Speaker 1: on Saturday, don't even think about coming in on Sunday.

1593
01:28:25,720 --> 01:28:29,799
Speaker 1: But so when do you start and when do you finish.

1594
01:28:29,800 --> 01:28:32,280
Speaker 1: I mean, is this typical all day all the time?

1595
01:28:33,400 --> 01:28:35,920
Speaker 3: You know, I am available all day all the time.

1596
01:28:36,080 --> 01:28:37,960
Speaker 3: I try to eat dinner with my kids every night,

1597
01:28:38,360 --> 01:28:43,640
Speaker 3: so I try to you know, be home from you know,

1598
01:28:44,200 --> 01:28:46,360
Speaker 3: six to eight. That's kind of my window. It's my

1599
01:28:46,479 --> 01:28:49,559
Speaker 3: favorite time of the entire day. It's it's when I

1600
01:28:49,600 --> 01:28:53,840
Speaker 3: am you know, my most happiest and just you know

1601
01:28:53,960 --> 01:28:55,559
Speaker 3: again seeing them getting filled.

1602
01:28:55,320 --> 01:28:55,920
Speaker 2: In on their day.

1603
01:28:57,439 --> 01:29:02,040
Speaker 3: So but yeah, I'll work from eight am to you know,

1604
01:29:02,080 --> 01:29:03,280
Speaker 3: midnight sometimes.

1605
01:29:03,960 --> 01:29:05,720
Speaker 1: So what is the future? You're the head of the

1606
01:29:05,800 --> 01:29:09,280
Speaker 1: of Diva. What is the future of the small venue

1607
01:29:09,320 --> 01:29:11,240
Speaker 1: in the music business?

1608
01:29:12,800 --> 01:29:15,519
Speaker 3: You know, I'm super excited. I also, you know, want

1609
01:29:15,560 --> 01:29:18,559
Speaker 3: to say I stepped down as board president a few

1610
01:29:18,560 --> 01:29:20,680
Speaker 3: months ago. Andre Perry is the new board president. We

1611
01:29:20,720 --> 01:29:24,320
Speaker 3: have a great executive director. I'm super excited about the

1612
01:29:24,320 --> 01:29:28,000
Speaker 3: group purchasing organization that we're rolling out. I think that

1613
01:29:28,360 --> 01:29:33,120
Speaker 3: the future of the small club is always gonna, you know,

1614
01:29:33,800 --> 01:29:37,639
Speaker 3: lay in the networking communications, in the community of talking

1615
01:29:37,640 --> 01:29:41,559
Speaker 3: to other folks and seeing how other people are operating

1616
01:29:41,560 --> 01:29:46,400
Speaker 3: efficiently and in working together. That was you know, the

1617
01:29:46,479 --> 01:29:50,000
Speaker 3: vision and the the kind of m O behind Neiva,

1618
01:29:50,000 --> 01:29:51,599
Speaker 3: and I think that is going to be even more

1619
01:29:51,640 --> 01:29:55,000
Speaker 3: important in the next decade as we continue to hit

1620
01:29:55,040 --> 01:29:55,800
Speaker 3: all these struggles.

1621
01:29:56,760 --> 01:29:58,960
Speaker 1: Now, the boomers were the first ones who really started

1622
01:29:58,960 --> 01:30:01,160
Speaker 1: to go to clubs regularly, the blow up of rock

1623
01:30:01,240 --> 01:30:04,520
Speaker 1: and roll, et cetera. Now is there going into the sunset.

1624
01:30:04,920 --> 01:30:07,920
Speaker 1: It feels confident about the audience and the acts.

1625
01:30:10,240 --> 01:30:10,960
Speaker 2: I think I.

1626
01:30:10,920 --> 01:30:16,720
Speaker 3: Feel confident in club's abilities to adapt to what customers want.

1627
01:30:16,760 --> 01:30:19,600
Speaker 3: I think that's a really great question because we know

1628
01:30:19,720 --> 01:30:23,000
Speaker 3: that your generations, they're more you know, focused on the

1629
01:30:23,040 --> 01:30:27,400
Speaker 3: social media elements and sometimes on like the more.

1630
01:30:28,760 --> 01:30:30,840
Speaker 2: Flashier show. Is that that's the right.

1631
01:30:30,680 --> 01:30:33,760
Speaker 3: Word, or like the kind of once in a lifetime experiences.

1632
01:30:34,680 --> 01:30:37,880
Speaker 3: But I have absolute faith in the power of music

1633
01:30:37,920 --> 01:30:41,160
Speaker 3: and the power of a song and that live music

1634
01:30:41,240 --> 01:30:46,960
Speaker 3: experience to totally transform somebody's life and to transform not

1635
01:30:47,000 --> 01:30:50,760
Speaker 3: only just their like daily experience, but in you know,

1636
01:30:50,840 --> 01:30:53,479
Speaker 3: everything about their continents. And so I think that is

1637
01:30:53,920 --> 01:30:56,040
Speaker 3: again when I look at clubs like that is the

1638
01:30:56,080 --> 01:30:58,559
Speaker 3: experience that we offer is for customers to come in

1639
01:30:58,560 --> 01:31:01,920
Speaker 3: and have that really intimate experience with the artists, get

1640
01:31:01,920 --> 01:31:04,960
Speaker 3: to see hear their favorite song in three D be

1641
01:31:05,040 --> 01:31:08,040
Speaker 3: treated really well. And so I have absolute faith in

1642
01:31:08,040 --> 01:31:11,280
Speaker 3: that experience to transform another generation.

1643
01:31:11,920 --> 01:31:13,840
Speaker 1: And if you do twelve hundred shows a year or

1644
01:31:13,880 --> 01:31:16,080
Speaker 1: how many are unprofitable.

1645
01:31:17,439 --> 01:31:21,280
Speaker 3: Oh man, more than I would care to admit in

1646
01:31:21,320 --> 01:31:26,760
Speaker 3: a public podcast. But like I said, we're we're We

1647
01:31:26,800 --> 01:31:28,760
Speaker 3: do shows for a lot of different reasons, right, Like

1648
01:31:28,840 --> 01:31:33,240
Speaker 3: we all know Minneapolis went through a really hard couple

1649
01:31:33,200 --> 01:31:37,400
Speaker 3: of years. It's still going through an exceptionally challenging time.

1650
01:31:38,439 --> 01:31:41,519
Speaker 3: I like to keep our clubs open. I think, you know,

1651
01:31:41,840 --> 01:31:46,080
Speaker 3: giving folks hours to work. I know downtown Minneapolis is

1652
01:31:46,080 --> 01:31:49,280
Speaker 3: safer when we're open. We want to generate that economic

1653
01:31:49,320 --> 01:31:52,840
Speaker 3: impact for our city. We want to give people those experiences.

1654
01:31:52,920 --> 01:31:55,439
Speaker 3: And so we have a lot of reasons to open

1655
01:31:55,479 --> 01:32:00,120
Speaker 3: and to do you know, local bands, you know, given

1656
01:32:00,160 --> 01:32:03,919
Speaker 3: the experience to like play on the stage, build their audience,

1657
01:32:04,280 --> 01:32:07,160
Speaker 3: get some local fans to you know, do dance nights

1658
01:32:07,160 --> 01:32:09,439
Speaker 3: on a night that you know, otherwise we might be closed,

1659
01:32:09,960 --> 01:32:11,600
Speaker 3: you know. I like the attitude of our company to

1660
01:32:11,600 --> 01:32:13,439
Speaker 3: be yes, like, yes, let's try it. We want to

1661
01:32:13,439 --> 01:32:16,839
Speaker 3: be experimental. We're local, we're small, let's take some risks,

1662
01:32:16,920 --> 01:32:20,120
Speaker 3: let's have some fun. So we're probably more inclined to

1663
01:32:20,120 --> 01:32:24,920
Speaker 3: do unprofitable shows than other folks because there's a kind

1664
01:32:24,960 --> 01:32:26,760
Speaker 3: of greater mission behind them.

1665
01:32:27,320 --> 01:32:31,200
Speaker 4: And how big is your private business private events?

1666
01:32:31,640 --> 01:32:35,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, not anything.

1667
01:32:36,640 --> 01:32:40,720
Speaker 3: Really not No, We're we're but we're we're doing a

1668
01:32:40,720 --> 01:32:44,719
Speaker 3: lot of you know, bands and ticketed events are our priority,

1669
01:32:45,160 --> 01:32:47,080
Speaker 3: and so they're always going to have They're always gonna

1670
01:32:47,080 --> 01:32:49,760
Speaker 3: have first priority on our calendar. They're always going to

1671
01:32:49,840 --> 01:32:51,920
Speaker 3: be who we want to cater to.

1672
01:32:53,280 --> 01:32:56,080
Speaker 1: And then what would you tell to young women if

1673
01:32:56,080 --> 01:32:57,799
Speaker 1: they wanted to get into this business?

1674
01:32:59,320 --> 01:33:01,760
Speaker 3: You know, I do a lot of informational interviews and

1675
01:33:01,800 --> 01:33:05,800
Speaker 3: mostly with young women, and I would say, you know,

1676
01:33:06,160 --> 01:33:09,439
Speaker 3: my advice is always you've got to work really hard.

1677
01:33:09,600 --> 01:33:13,479
Speaker 3: Nothing just comes to you. You know, it's fun, but

1678
01:33:13,560 --> 01:33:19,680
Speaker 3: it's also don't underestimate the time it takes and the sacrifices,

1679
01:33:20,360 --> 01:33:24,720
Speaker 3: and you know the fact that like if you want

1680
01:33:24,720 --> 01:33:28,519
Speaker 3: to work nine to five and you know, go to

1681
01:33:28,560 --> 01:33:31,479
Speaker 3: the gym over lunch, and that this might not be

1682
01:33:31,520 --> 01:33:33,080
Speaker 3: the career for you. You know, I think people you

1683
01:33:33,120 --> 01:33:35,639
Speaker 3: have to you have to be willing to really sink

1684
01:33:35,680 --> 01:33:37,680
Speaker 3: your teeth into it and give it all you have.

1685
01:33:39,280 --> 01:33:43,120
Speaker 1: And you talked about when you first came back to Minneapolis,

1686
01:33:43,120 --> 01:33:46,320
Speaker 1: when your father was ill about gussing it all up

1687
01:33:46,360 --> 01:33:50,800
Speaker 1: to sell to live Nation or age. How long do

1688
01:33:50,880 --> 01:33:53,240
Speaker 1: you plan to do this? Would you ever sell? Do

1689
01:33:53,280 --> 01:33:55,680
Speaker 1: you see your kids running the business?

1690
01:33:57,479 --> 01:34:00,960
Speaker 3: You know, my kids, if they want to, it would

1691
01:34:00,960 --> 01:34:03,880
Speaker 3: be nice for them to have the option. I have

1692
01:34:03,960 --> 01:34:08,519
Speaker 3: a lot of fun and I absolutely love, love, love

1693
01:34:08,840 --> 01:34:11,679
Speaker 3: what I do, and I'm really proud of what we built,

1694
01:34:12,320 --> 01:34:17,000
Speaker 3: and i love my team, and so you know, we're

1695
01:34:17,800 --> 01:34:22,599
Speaker 3: just really again, we're enjoying what we do. We're enjoying

1696
01:34:22,600 --> 01:34:26,599
Speaker 3: our impact on the community. We're enjoying seeing these bands.

1697
01:34:26,600 --> 01:34:29,280
Speaker 3: And you know, my favorite thing in the entire world is,

1698
01:34:29,720 --> 01:34:33,000
Speaker 3: you know, watching the show and watching people. I don't

1699
01:34:33,200 --> 01:34:35,599
Speaker 3: I'll watch the show, but I'll watch people's faces and

1700
01:34:35,680 --> 01:34:37,760
Speaker 3: just the change and how they walk into the venue

1701
01:34:37,800 --> 01:34:40,640
Speaker 3: from how they walk out, And I couldn't imagine doing

1702
01:34:40,680 --> 01:34:41,200
Speaker 3: anything else.

1703
01:34:42,520 --> 01:34:44,479
Speaker 1: Two best shows since you've been an owner.

1704
01:34:45,640 --> 01:34:48,120
Speaker 2: Two best shows?

1705
01:34:48,880 --> 01:34:50,200
Speaker 3: Oh, I'm gonna have to plead the fifth.

1706
01:34:52,040 --> 01:34:54,680
Speaker 1: Okay, just talk about one or two highlights?

1707
01:34:54,840 --> 01:34:57,360
Speaker 3: Okay, perfect, that's that's a great that's a great question.

1708
01:34:58,160 --> 01:35:00,679
Speaker 3: You know, we had the Pretenders and the Entry in September.

1709
01:35:00,800 --> 01:35:03,760
Speaker 3: That was a bucket list once in a lifetime, just

1710
01:35:04,320 --> 01:35:07,160
Speaker 3: holy shit. I can't believe I am here right now moment.

1711
01:35:09,080 --> 01:35:12,839
Speaker 3: I think, you know, Lizzo came up through First Avenue

1712
01:35:13,360 --> 01:35:17,160
Speaker 3: and so seeing the rise of Lizzo's career.

1713
01:35:16,920 --> 01:35:19,360
Speaker 2: From you know, when we promoted.

1714
01:35:18,920 --> 01:35:21,760
Speaker 3: Her album release show to I don't know, one hundred

1715
01:35:21,760 --> 01:35:24,040
Speaker 3: people or whatever, and then you know, watching her sill

1716
01:35:24,080 --> 01:35:26,599
Speaker 3: out the main room to then come into the palace

1717
01:35:26,640 --> 01:35:29,800
Speaker 3: and seeing a true superstar in the making that was

1718
01:35:30,560 --> 01:35:33,640
Speaker 3: that was a real joy to behold as well.

1719
01:35:33,800 --> 01:35:38,800
Speaker 1: You are so warm and open and smiling. If we're

1720
01:35:38,840 --> 01:35:42,360
Speaker 1: there settling a show, are you ever a hard ass?

1721
01:35:42,479 --> 01:35:44,519
Speaker 1: Or is this who you are twenty four or seven?

1722
01:35:45,520 --> 01:35:46,360
Speaker 2: Well, maybe there's.

1723
01:35:46,160 --> 01:35:49,720
Speaker 3: A reason I'm not a talent buyer, right, I'm not

1724
01:35:49,880 --> 01:35:53,080
Speaker 3: settling that show. I'm buying you a drink and asking

1725
01:35:53,120 --> 01:35:54,080
Speaker 3: about how your kids are.

1726
01:35:55,760 --> 01:35:59,160
Speaker 1: Okay, Dana, I know that you got to go back

1727
01:35:59,240 --> 01:36:03,559
Speaker 1: keeping Minnesodah's Live Entertainment Business. Live has been wonderful talking

1728
01:36:03,600 --> 01:36:06,320
Speaker 1: to you, and I know that this is just the

1729
01:36:06,360 --> 01:36:09,519
Speaker 1: middle for you. There's so much left to do. I

1730
01:36:09,560 --> 01:36:11,360
Speaker 1: want to thank you for talking to my audience.

1731
01:36:12,040 --> 01:36:13,920
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for having me, and I'm glad

1732
01:36:13,960 --> 01:36:15,479
Speaker 3: to hear it. I feel like I'm just just getting

1733
01:36:15,479 --> 01:36:15,920
Speaker 3: started to.

1734
01:36:16,920 --> 01:36:20,120
Speaker 1: Okay, till next time. This is Bob left sets