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Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media.

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Speaker 2: Hello, welcome to Cool People. Did Cool Stuff Slash it

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Speaker 2: could happen here episode? And this is a little pickup

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Speaker 2: we inserted because James and I Hi, James, Hi, Margaret

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Speaker 2: and Margaret, that's James. We're on each other's shows this week.

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Speaker 2: We just spent three days in Minneapolis culminating in the

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Speaker 2: general strike last Friday, and we were there to cover

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Speaker 2: the rapid response networks and the mutual aid networks that

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Speaker 2: people have been building, and that's what we're going to

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Speaker 2: be talking about in these two episodes. But the reason

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Speaker 2: that we're recording this little pickup right here to listen

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Speaker 2: to at the front of it is that nine hours

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Speaker 2: after we finished recording these episodes, shortly after both of

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Speaker 2: us had left the city, a man named Alex Pretty

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Speaker 2: was killed by federal agents in what is obviously a

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Speaker 2: something that you all are familiar with. And we just

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Speaker 2: kind of want to mark that because I think the

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Speaker 2: tone and what we're talking about right now is we're

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Speaker 2: so excited about these networks that people have been building.

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Speaker 2: But obviously the tone would have changed a little bit

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Speaker 2: had we recorded it only nine hours later, and we

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Speaker 2: would have been talking about something slightly different, and that's

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Speaker 2: just the breaks of podcasting.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, the fundamental message, I guess wouldn't change, but we

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Speaker 3: all know that that doing what these people do can

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Speaker 3: have terrible costs, and we were reminded of that again.

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Speaker 3: Yeah Saturday morning. I guess we should just say that, like,

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Speaker 3: we grieve his passing and we're sending our thoughts to

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Speaker 3: his family and the people who loved him. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 3: gond be a really hard time for him.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, Hello, and welcome to Cool People Could Happen Here.

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Speaker 2: I'm one of your hosts, Margaret Kiljoy, and with me

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Speaker 2: today as my other host is James. Hi. Margaret, we

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Speaker 2: are doing a special crossover episode of it Could Happen

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Speaker 2: Here and Cool People Who did cool stuff. And we're

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Speaker 2: doing it because James and I are in sunny Minneapolis,

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Speaker 2: which is true.

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Speaker 3: The sun was out. Yeah, yeah, I saw the sun. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 3: I saw it through a cloud.

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Speaker 2: Of cold, cold air, the vapor of our own breath freezing.

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Speaker 2: I have seen more people today with frozen eyelashes than

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Speaker 2: any other point in my life.

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Speaker 3: But together. Yeah, I breathed into my goggles briefly and

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Speaker 3: that froze, Yeah, from my eyes froze. Yeah, Yeah, it

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Speaker 3: was minus thirty fahrenheit.

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Speaker 2: Feel I guess with windshill, what is that and what

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Speaker 2: is that in Celsius.

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Speaker 3: They come together at minus forty, so it's going to

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Speaker 3: be like minus thirty five and something like that. It was.

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Speaker 3: It was for those who are not familiar cold, very cold.

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Speaker 2: And so the two of us came up to Minneapolis

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Speaker 2: a few days ago and we have spent the past

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Speaker 2: three days here talking to everyone we can about the

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Speaker 2: rapid response networks that people have built to try to

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Speaker 2: keep themselves and their neighbors safe from ice and federal

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Speaker 2: oppression and the sort of federal occupation of the city,

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Speaker 2: and so what we thought we would do this is

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Speaker 2: kind of Neither of us have written scripts. Yet we

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Speaker 2: are still here. We just had a fun, slightly hectic

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Speaker 2: day where we spent only about twenty minutes reasonably sure

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Speaker 2: we were getting arrested.

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Speaker 3: We didn't get arrested. No, thank you, Comra train.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we got on a light rail and were able

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Speaker 2: to leave a kettle by a light rail, which is

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Speaker 2: a new experience for me.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm very European.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and yeah, we came up here to talk to

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Speaker 2: people and that's been like the story that I'm most

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Speaker 2: interested in, right, is that we have all of these

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Speaker 2: stories that are absolutely true. The stakes are really high here,

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Speaker 2: but the things that people are building here are really incredible,

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Speaker 2: and people know that they're holding down ice here in

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Speaker 2: a way that no one would have expected, I think,

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Speaker 2: And I don't know, So yeah, you want to Should

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Speaker 2: we just talk about kind of our days?

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Speaker 3: I think I just want to ground people before we

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Speaker 3: do that in that so much as if reporting on

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Speaker 3: Minneapolis has focused on trauma, and so much reporting on

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Speaker 3: migrants focuses on trauma, right, And I think people who

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Speaker 3: have listened to our podcast know that that's not really

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Speaker 3: a game, and so I understand when they hear that

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Speaker 3: we've been in Minneapolis, I think we're going to talk

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Speaker 3: about horrific things that we've seen. I want to talk

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Speaker 3: more about the beautiful things that we've seen, because I

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Speaker 3: think those get missed and they're super important, especially if

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Speaker 3: you're listening in another city in the US which will

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Speaker 3: face some degree of this or is facing some degree

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Speaker 3: of this. Right, So I want to ground this in

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Speaker 3: saying that rather than talking about the trauma people experiencing,

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Speaker 3: which I'm sure will be incidental, I want to talk

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Speaker 3: about how closely people are holding each other here and

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Speaker 3: how special that is and what we can take from it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and like without obviously we're like, we're not trying

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Speaker 2: to paint a rosy picture of what's happening here, because

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Speaker 2: what's happening here is like I'm I'm a cold hearted journalist,

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Speaker 2: historian person, and I was crying multiple times in the

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Speaker 2: past couple days as people told me about some of

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Speaker 2: the stuff they've experienced. But some of it has been

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Speaker 2: you know, we've asked people, We've said, like, hey, what

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Speaker 2: do you want people to take away from this? And

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Speaker 2: one of the main things is that kind of a

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Speaker 2: like hey, you can do it too kind of thing.

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Speaker 2: And the other thing that people have talked about is

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Speaker 2: like it would be really nice for people to see

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Speaker 2: that what we're doing is amazing here, even if it's

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Speaker 2: like coming out of such such horrendous adversity.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Like one of the things that I've taken throughout

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Speaker 3: my career is in hard times, we can build beautiful things. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: That's what I wrote my book about, really. Yeah, and

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Speaker 3: what I've tried to report on all of the world.

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Speaker 3: They think this is more evidence of that, and so

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Speaker 3: like you're going to hear things which were amazing and

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Speaker 3: the people who have done them are wonderful, but they're

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Speaker 3: not uniquely special. You can do all these things too,

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Speaker 3: and like, I want you to see that it is

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Speaker 3: possible where you live.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So one of the first things that we did

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Speaker 2: when we got here we talked about, you know, to

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Speaker 2: put ourselves in the story. I drove a long way

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Speaker 2: and James flew a long way and yeah, you know,

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Speaker 2: I picked up James at the airport and we came

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Speaker 2: to where we're staying and we were talking about like

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Speaker 2: and it was late at night and we're like, all right,

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Speaker 2: what are we what are we trying to do tomorrow?

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Speaker 2: And what are we trying to see? And what are

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Speaker 2: we trying to learn? Yeah, And one of the main

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Speaker 2: things one of the first questions we had was like,

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Speaker 2: what's the scale of what's happening here? Yeah? Right, Like,

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Speaker 2: like what were your impressions of the scale of what

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Speaker 2: was happening? Mmm? We should talk without that.

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Speaker 3: What's happening here?

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Speaker 2: It's like really quickly, I bet you all know about

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Speaker 2: it in the news. Why do I have a different

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Speaker 2: tone of voice when I'm talking into a microphone? In

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Speaker 2: this way, and so usually I'm in a zoom call,

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Speaker 2: but instead we're both sitting in a bedroom on opposite

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Speaker 2: ends of the bedroom. Yeah, talking into microphones, and I

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Speaker 2: somehow have a different cadence and I don't know how

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Speaker 2: I feel about it. Also, I've had to drink caffeine,

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Speaker 2: which I don't do because we've had to do an

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Speaker 2: awful lot. And anyway, what was I about to ask you.

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Speaker 3: How widespread stuff is?

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Speaker 2: Oh? Yeah, well what was it? Okay, we're going to

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Speaker 2: talk about what's happening here.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, so if people aren't familiar, right, ICE, which

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Speaker 3: is Immigration and Customs Enforcement, the agency charged with removing

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Speaker 3: people from the United States who are non citizens right

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Speaker 3: who are considered deportable. Specifically, the branch of Immigration and

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Speaker 3: Customs Enforcement that we are seeing here is Enforcement Removal

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Speaker 3: Operations aka EOO. We're also seeing border patrol right in

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Speaker 3: the last year, actually more than a year, and I right,

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Speaker 3: this begun under the Bay deministration with Operation Turned to

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Speaker 3: Send Her in the Central Valley of California. We're seeing

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Speaker 3: border patrol agents used to do internal enforcement right of

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Speaker 3: people who are generally documented, sometimes undocumented, but always non citizens.

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Speaker 3: They are detaining them in the street. They are detaining

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Speaker 3: them outside schools. They're detaining them at the bus stop,

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Speaker 3: They're detaining them at places to work. And when I

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Speaker 3: say detaining, that's as they're grabbing people out of cars.

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Speaker 3: They're snatching children and using them to bait out their parents.

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Speaker 3: They're smashing people's car windows and pulling them out. They're

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Speaker 3: barging into businesses. In one case, they ate at a

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Speaker 3: Mexican restaurant and then arrested the workers there later that day.

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Speaker 3: I've visited a lot of places where terrible things happen. Right.

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Speaker 3: The ship that is happening here, it's a ship that

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Speaker 3: people come to America to get away from. It is

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Speaker 3: men in masks with guns pulling people who have done

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Speaker 3: nothing wrong, who are here not harming anyone, People who

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Speaker 3: do not have criminal records. Just for the I don't

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Speaker 3: feel like I need to say that on this show,

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Speaker 3: but I need to say that every time I talk

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Speaker 3: about this, right, like, the vast majority, something like eighty

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Speaker 3: percent last time I know to the status of these

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Speaker 3: people have no criminal records, and a criminal record could

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Speaker 3: be something like fucking parking in the wrong.

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Speaker 2: Please, I've been arrested Yeah. Also, I don't care. I

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Speaker 2: would give you a lot of crime. Everyone listening to

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Speaker 2: this has done a lot of crime. Whether or not

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Speaker 2: you've been caught, you're.

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Speaker 3: Probably stead Yeah you went a little bit too late

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Speaker 3: through a red light whatever, Like, I don't think that

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Speaker 3: matters actually exactly, even if you're a lib, even if

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Speaker 3: you believe it, our justice system is fair. It should

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Speaker 3: be fair for everyone. There shouldn't be different consequences for

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Speaker 3: different people. Let's move past set, right, So how wide

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Speaker 3: spread is this? Margaret and I got in late. We

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Speaker 3: sat up even later talking all the shitty Vegan pizza.

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Speaker 3: We ate it. We kind of was Yeah, had better,

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Speaker 3: I won't name drop. We we work up the next morning,

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Speaker 3: and within five minutes while waking up, we heard like

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Speaker 3: beep beep beep coming down the street. Yeah. Both Mark

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Speaker 3: and I ran to the front door, spent a while

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Speaker 3: trying to put on snow boots, and watched an Ice

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Speaker 3: agent rolling down the street in what they normally drive in, right,

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Speaker 3: which a rental SUVs with the windows blacked out. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: and people following them alerting the block that Ice was here, right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and we're not downtown. We like picked an area

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Speaker 2: that's like slightly lightly out of it. But we got

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Speaker 2: warned that nowhere is goon free. Yeah, and they were right,

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Speaker 2: nowhere is good free.

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Speaker 3: Right. I mean we have probably been within a thirty

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Speaker 3: minute radius of the spot we're staying at for three

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Speaker 3: or four days.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 3: We've seen ICE pile their car into a telephone pole.

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Speaker 3: We've seen spent munitions on the floor, Ice tear gas

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Speaker 3: and people a few ox from us, but they were

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Speaker 3: gone by the time we got there. Yeah, and I

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Speaker 3: don't want to get this out like front and center

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Speaker 3: at the start. It was not Ice who kettle protesters today.

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Speaker 3: It was Hennepin County Sheriff's office. It was not Ice

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Speaker 3: who arrested people who approached them with their hands in

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Speaker 3: the air trying to work out what was going on.

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Speaker 3: That was Helipin County Sheriff's office. I've seen press conferences

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Speaker 3: with Minneapolis police. I don't know what their deal is.

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Speaker 3: I'll tell you the Hennepin County Sheriff's office for actively

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Speaker 3: participating in this. Right, I'm not buying this local cops good.

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Speaker 3: This will shock listeners. I'm not buying the local cops good,

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Speaker 3: federal cops bad. Narrative when cops get asked what site

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Speaker 3: they're on there on the side of the other cops.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's interesting because the thing that you have is

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Speaker 2: that you have you know, there's the great classic like

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Speaker 2: if those are neutron times of oppression or siding with

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Speaker 2: the oppressors, right, Yeah, because the overall situation here, it

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Speaker 2: seems to be, is that you do have much more

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Speaker 2: the oppressive force here as an outside forces concerned to

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Speaker 2: any other protest movement I've seen in the United States,

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Speaker 2: people are very aware that it is outsiders who have

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Speaker 2: come to their city to steal their neighbors.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, right, And.

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Speaker 2: So because of that, the federal forces are the forces

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Speaker 2: everyone's mad at, whereas a lot of the people who

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Speaker 2: are standing up to federal forces are neutral or fine

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Speaker 2: with police and even like the concept of other federal agencies.

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Speaker 2: They just don't want people snatching neighbors. Now that's not universal,

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Speaker 2: but it's like some of the people we've talked to. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: but what state level law enforcement has decided is that

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Speaker 2: they are committed to keeping the peace and they can't

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Speaker 2: keep the peace against ice, which they probably on some

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Speaker 2: level morally know that they need to, but they don't.

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Speaker 2: And instead they're like, all right, well we can mess

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Speaker 2: up with the you.

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Speaker 3: Know, the protest protested there protested, right, But.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, like when we saw people drive down honking the

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Speaker 2: very first thing that we experienced in this town, and

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Speaker 2: we weren't sure what it was. We were like, is

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Speaker 2: that is that people following ice and honking? And I

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Speaker 2: had done fair about research before I came, and I

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Speaker 2: kind of knew about the whistles, but I didn't really

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Speaker 2: know about this like incredible network that people have built.

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Speaker 2: Yeah that what we saw was not in any way exceptional, right,

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Speaker 2: that was just.

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Speaker 3: A standard street on a Wednesday morning.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And so we get into we get into my

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Speaker 2: vehicle and we start driving. You know, we have some

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Speaker 2: places we think we're going to go check out, We

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Speaker 2: have some you know, friends who are local who are

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Speaker 2: going to talk to us. And we get like two

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Speaker 2: blocks three blocks before we find people protecting Somali Daycare.

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Speaker 3: Yeah right, we uh, well before that, right, we went

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Speaker 3: to the food cop to get food. Yeah, And we

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Speaker 3: went into the food corp. We got a food and

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Speaker 3: on the way out, we see this big old sign

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Speaker 3: on the door which is like we're closed on the

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Speaker 3: twenty third Ice out of Minnesota. Yeah, I s had

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Speaker 3: in Minneapolis whatever it is, and it's in English and Spanish,

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Speaker 3: and it's like in solidarity with our migrant neighbors, we're

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Speaker 3: not opening. Yeah, And like obviously it's a food cop right,

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Speaker 3: it's not a reactionary space that sort of planted a

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Speaker 3: seed for me, like, ah, like this is a big

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Speaker 3: ass business, you know, like like it's not a business

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Speaker 3: that necessarily relies on migrant labor. But I can see

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Speaker 3: it being a space for people who in solidarity. I

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Speaker 3: wonder how white that is right? And they even in

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Speaker 3: the time we've been here, I've seen businesses put those

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Speaker 3: ut that didn't happen when we were going out on Wednesday, right,

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Speaker 3: like people being like, nah, this isn't right, but yeah,

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Speaker 3: to go back. We What happened was that Margaret was driving.

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Speaker 3: I was riding next to Margaret. I saw a group

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Speaker 3: of people. One guy had kind of tanned for housers

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Speaker 3: on and I was like, stop, Margaret. Margaret slowed down,

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Speaker 3: signaled and turned into the parking lot that these folks

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Speaker 3: were at, and they immediately they had seen us right

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Speaker 3: ham on the brakes and turn up in a vehicle

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Speaker 3: with that estate plates. Then we then we better go

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Speaker 3: speak to these people. We probably scared them.

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Speaker 2: What's going is we thought we scared them. No, yeah,

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Speaker 2: they're not scared of us. No, they're looking to see

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Speaker 2: if they're on to us. It's such a huge difference, right, right,

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Speaker 2: because when people are scoping us out, they're not like, oh,

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Speaker 2: that might be ice. They're like, is that ice?

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Speaker 3: Let's fucking get them. Yeah yeah, Like if that's ice,

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Speaker 3: we need to roll, right, We need to we need

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Speaker 3: to let people know. We need to start honking, we

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Speaker 3: need to start whistling.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So we get out, walk over and we start talking

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Speaker 3: to these people, and like that. The person who was

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Speaker 3: most fourth, right, most forthcoming, was an older lady. I

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Speaker 3: mean she shared her rages. I think it's fine to

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Speaker 3: say I think seventy six. Yeah, it's probably a round

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Speaker 3: zero fair andheighth, like even like that warmer than that, right, So, like,

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Speaker 3: you know, mindus ten celsius something there. Yeah, not wearing

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Speaker 3: a hat, yeah, just give a fuck.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm chilly in my like brand new winter clothes,

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Speaker 2: and I live outside in the mountain. I don't live

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Speaker 2: outside anymore, but I live in the mountains.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I'm wearing all my nice technical gear show

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Speaker 3: on a Parker and yeah, and she's just like so zealous,

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Speaker 3: is like she's so happy to be doing what she's

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Speaker 3: doing and so proud of herself for being the person

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Speaker 3: who did it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. And she's not in an earnest way, like in

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Speaker 2: a way that in a self congratulatory way, but just

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Speaker 2: in a like I am one hundred percent convinced I'm

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Speaker 2: in the right and I will talk to you, yeah,

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Speaker 2: and I will say it with my whole chest. Yeah, Like,

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Speaker 2: do you want to share some of the stuff you said?

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Speaker 2: I thought it's really one of the things that she

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Speaker 2: said that, yeah, Like I mean, you know she I

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Speaker 2: didn't get the impression she was like a wild political

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Speaker 2: radical or something, right, and she's just like, you know,

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Speaker 2: my father fought fascists in France and Italy, and like

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Speaker 2: he would be proud of me, and like, yeah, I'm

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Speaker 2: sure he would be. Yeah, and I'm.

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Speaker 3: Sure it would be disgusted at what's fucking happening.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. And you know, and while we're talking, the Somali

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Speaker 2: family who's daycare it is, comes out and gives us

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Speaker 2: symbosas and we're like no, no, no, no, we're journalists.

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Speaker 3: You don't have to give us anything.

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Speaker 2: We're like, not even helping. We're like, they're like, you're here,

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Speaker 2: you're with us, you are taking food.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. I was like, no way, some monies we feed

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Speaker 3: people like, yeah, what's your deally vegetarian? We're like, we're

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Speaker 3: with vegan.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So he comes out, goes back, comes out with the

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Speaker 3: vegan ones, you know, like and they were delicious.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: No, there's some best foot I ever eaten. As we're

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Speaker 2: standing there, more people come and go. So you're like, Okay,

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Speaker 2: this is happening here, right, you know, no pun intended.

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Speaker 2: And we as we leave, we talked to a few

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Speaker 2: more people we leave, and and some of the other

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Speaker 2: people we talk to are like and the people from

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Speaker 2: different scenes, it's not you know, like it's not just

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Speaker 2: an old.

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Speaker 3: Lady scene, right, it's a diverse crowd.

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Speaker 2: Right. And you know, when we talk to a father

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Speaker 2: who I tangentially know through the metal scene, who is like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: my kid goes to school here. Yeah, like no one

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Speaker 2: is taking kids while I can stand here, you know,

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Speaker 2: And he was like, I have work to be doing it.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 2: He's like, we're supposed to be recording this band today

356
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Speaker 2: or whatever. And he's like, no, I'm here, I'm doing this.

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Speaker 2: There's no sadness, you know, there's just.

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Speaker 3: So he's like, this is what I have to be doing.

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Speaker 3: It's the most important thing to do.

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Speaker 2: Every two blocks there are people on the corner. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: usually two people, sometimes alone. And those what we later

362
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Speaker 2: learned because we were like, holy shit, there's ice watchers everywhere. Yeah,

363
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Speaker 2: those are just the marked people we see. That's the minority. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: there are people driving constantly in very organized but entirely

365
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Speaker 2: decentralized networks of rapid response where they have come together

366
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Speaker 2: in these like hyper local Signal loops. Signal is an

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Speaker 2: encrypted messaging app that you can use on any device Android, iPhone.

368
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Speaker 2: The government can't break its encryption. However, there's no truly

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Speaker 2: safe system.

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Speaker 3: It's the safest one we have and it automatically deletes

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Speaker 3: mess ues after a period of day if.

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Speaker 2: You set it up to yeah, and which you should.

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Speaker 2: And so people are using this system, and you know,

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Speaker 2: a ton of these people had never heard of Signal

375
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Speaker 2: before in their life and now they're using this system.

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Speaker 2: And also we talked to folks and people felt that

377
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Speaker 2: like a certain level of transparency about the networks they're

378
00:18:54,600 --> 00:18:55,719
Speaker 2: building is very useful.

379
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Speaker 3: Yeah, we should probably address its head on, like just

380
00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:00,720
Speaker 3: to be super clearly. Yeah, I think we are sharing

381
00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:04,320
Speaker 3: is because people have implored us to share it.

382
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Speaker 2: Right.

383
00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:07,840
Speaker 3: We did not sneak in and find its information. People

384
00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:10,399
Speaker 3: openly gave it to us because they wanted you to

385
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Speaker 3: hear it.

386
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Speaker 2: Right, Because they understand that this is the kind of

387
00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:17,640
Speaker 2: system that is currently proving effective and they want people

388
00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:20,560
Speaker 2: to learn from what they're doing, and so they've created

389
00:19:21,280 --> 00:19:26,040
Speaker 2: hyper local systems like block by block. We have groups

390
00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:29,000
Speaker 2: where neighbors are able to check in on neighbors and

391
00:19:29,040 --> 00:19:31,600
Speaker 2: people are able to say, hey, I saw this thing right,

392
00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:38,240
Speaker 2: you know, And so there is constant presence all over town.

393
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Speaker 2: And when I say town, we spent our time in Minneapolis,

394
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Speaker 2: but we have talked to a lot of people always

395
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Speaker 2: say the same Paul is doing a similar thing, suburbs

396
00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:47,560
Speaker 2: are doing a similar thing. Even some small towns elsewhere

397
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Speaker 2: in Minnesota starting to do this.

398
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Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't quite know where the town is, but

399
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Speaker 3: if people are local, Like a few years ago, I

400
00:19:53,359 --> 00:19:56,960
Speaker 3: went to a massive renfare here and already outed myself

401
00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:00,520
Speaker 3: it's okay. I brought a cloak I must wear. Folks

402
00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:02,880
Speaker 3: all the way out there are doing it too, which

403
00:20:02,920 --> 00:20:05,919
Speaker 3: is that was that place had a rural Midwest vibe,

404
00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:06,760
Speaker 3: let me tell you.

405
00:20:06,840 --> 00:20:09,159
Speaker 2: And so people are doing this all over. I have

406
00:20:09,359 --> 00:20:12,359
Speaker 2: never seen unity like this.

407
00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:15,439
Speaker 3: No, Like the only time I've seen a city this

408
00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:20,199
Speaker 3: much in lockstep is when I was in Comishlo in

409
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Speaker 3: twenty twenty three. And where is that. Comishlo is the

410
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Speaker 3: capital of what is generally referred to as Rajava, the

411
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Speaker 3: Autonomous Administration of North and East Syria. And at that

412
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Speaker 3: time we were being bombed by Turkey. Turkey takes offense

413
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Speaker 3: at Kurdish people having any autonomy. And this is what

414
00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:41,000
Speaker 3: that felt like, because there is someone invading your town

415
00:20:41,359 --> 00:20:45,359
Speaker 3: and taking your friends. Yeah, and everyone. I remember there

416
00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:47,920
Speaker 3: were funerals, right because so one bomb killed thirty four,

417
00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:53,080
Speaker 3: say show the internal security forces, and I remember everyone

418
00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:55,480
Speaker 3: rolled out for the funeral like it was like a

419
00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:59,280
Speaker 3: general strike. And that's what it feels like here, Like

420
00:20:59,359 --> 00:21:01,639
Speaker 3: you could walk through town the day that happened and

421
00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:04,640
Speaker 3: see people were sad, but they were sharing their sadness.

422
00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:08,000
Speaker 3: And here people are mad and they're sharing their anger

423
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Speaker 3: but also their love for one another.

424
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Speaker 2: Yeah, even when someone was killed by ice. This did

425
00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:15,879
Speaker 2: not stop people from doing this work. Yeah, it brought

426
00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:20,119
Speaker 2: more people out to do this work because people are like, no, this,

427
00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:23,440
Speaker 2: this work needs to be done. And on some level

428
00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:25,840
Speaker 2: the scale is that, right, Like, because if someone is

429
00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:29,720
Speaker 2: seeking asylum, like, no one runs unless they have a reason,

430
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Speaker 2: you know, And so sending people back to the places

431
00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:38,280
Speaker 2: that they've sought asylum from often just means killing people. Yeah.

432
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Speaker 3: I mean, let's look at the things that happened in

433
00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:42,919
Speaker 3: the last month. Right, gay men being sent back to Iran,

434
00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:47,560
Speaker 3: where the punishment for that is death. People from this community,

435
00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:50,679
Speaker 3: Korene people, right being sent back to Mianmar where we

436
00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:53,639
Speaker 3: know that they are directly delivered to a military prison.

437
00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:57,320
Speaker 3: They are sending people back to Mauritania, where again you

438
00:21:57,359 --> 00:22:01,440
Speaker 3: can be punished for being queer by death. Right, Like,

439
00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:05,159
Speaker 3: what is happening here is that people's lives are at stake.

440
00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:07,720
Speaker 3: I think sometimes people think, oh, I think of Veni

441
00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:09,200
Speaker 3: and you go out a place where life is less,

442
00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:11,600
Speaker 3: you know, you don't have a target. No, that's not

443
00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:14,920
Speaker 3: a deal. Yeah, we're sending people back to Venezuela. Right,

444
00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:18,359
Speaker 3: We're sending people from the US to Venezuela. The US

445
00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:22,600
Speaker 3: notably just kidnapped the president of Venezuela. Those people aren't

446
00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:25,200
Speaker 3: going to have a nice time. Yeah, right, And if

447
00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:28,120
Speaker 3: you were a US intelligence agen see and you wanted

448
00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:31,159
Speaker 3: to insert people into Venezuela, that's how you would do it.

449
00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:31,480
Speaker 2: Yeah.

450
00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:34,679
Speaker 3: And Venezuela knows that Venezuella then that dumb and they

451
00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:37,720
Speaker 3: are very paranoid. Yeah, and they are a state which

452
00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:40,200
Speaker 3: has a great deal of ability to do violence based

453
00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:41,480
Speaker 3: on that paranoid.

454
00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:44,520
Speaker 2: And so people are aware of the stakes and they're

455
00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:47,720
Speaker 2: doween something about it, and what's cool. It's so interesting

456
00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:49,760
Speaker 2: because at the same time, but you know, there's a

457
00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:51,800
Speaker 2: little bit of like, yeah, we're built different and certainly

458
00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:55,080
Speaker 2: around the colt that is absolutely true. And there is

459
00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:58,200
Speaker 2: all of this stuff in the history of at least

460
00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:03,240
Speaker 2: Minneapolis that people have built resistance out of, right, you know,

461
00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:08,560
Speaker 2: all of this very active multiculturalism going back decades. We've

462
00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:11,159
Speaker 2: talked to organizers who grew up and you know, we

463
00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:12,760
Speaker 2: talked to an organizer who grew up in the American

464
00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:16,080
Speaker 2: Indian movement and was talking about like black and Indigenous

465
00:23:16,119 --> 00:23:18,880
Speaker 2: solidarity going back to the sixties and seventies, right, and

466
00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:21,199
Speaker 2: you know, and was saying like, there's all of this

467
00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:25,520
Speaker 2: multicultural and solidarity. There's also all of these like cultural events, right.

468
00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:29,800
Speaker 2: They have this huge Mayday parade right, or festival every year.

469
00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:31,640
Speaker 2: It's funny, I've spent a lot of time in Minneapolis,

470
00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:33,120
Speaker 2: but I've never actually been here for this, but everyone's

471
00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:35,840
Speaker 2: always talking about it where basically people go to this

472
00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:39,080
Speaker 2: park and build puppets and build giant puppets together. But

473
00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:42,840
Speaker 2: it's it's decentralized, and so there's all of this history

474
00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:46,520
Speaker 2: of decentralized organizing. And in twenty twenty, of course, you know,

475
00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:51,119
Speaker 2: the uprising kind of began here and people are very.

476
00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:51,560
Speaker 3: Aware of that.

477
00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:53,280
Speaker 2: And so they have all of these networks that have

478
00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:56,520
Speaker 2: been built for years, and they weren't necessarily like crazy

479
00:23:56,680 --> 00:24:00,680
Speaker 2: active in the intervening years. But people know each other

480
00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:03,240
Speaker 2: on some level. And that's the thing though, because we

481
00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:05,600
Speaker 2: expected kind of I expected people being like, ah, yes,

482
00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:09,520
Speaker 2: they had all of these deep interconnections, and most people

483
00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:11,920
Speaker 2: were talking to are like, no, I know my neighbors.

484
00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:15,560
Speaker 2: Now do you know six months ago we had the

485
00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:20,240
Speaker 2: we have these like small seeds, right, and so there,

486
00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:24,639
Speaker 2: so people here are and aren't special about that. But

487
00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:28,000
Speaker 2: do you know what is special? Else I can die.

488
00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:31,000
Speaker 2: I shut it to think, Margaret. I think what's special

489
00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:35,359
Speaker 2: is the fact that you and I run anti capitalist podcasts.

490
00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:38,400
Speaker 2: It's special as a lot of meetings, Yeah, that are

491
00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:42,080
Speaker 2: interrupted by advertisements. Yeah, it is, it is different, it is,

492
00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:44,560
Speaker 2: it is a thing. And here they are.

493
00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:49,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you please in certain name of advertiser here

494
00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:51,760
Speaker 3: for buying us a low grade vegan pizza which still

495
00:24:51,800 --> 00:25:06,320
Speaker 3: cost us more than fifty dollars and reback. Yeah. I

496
00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:09,280
Speaker 3: wanted to talk a little bit about like the structures

497
00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:12,520
Speaker 3: that exist, right, and I think probably the way to

498
00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:15,159
Speaker 3: do that is to break this down into two distinct,

499
00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:19,800
Speaker 3: I guess categories. And I think these are distinct in

500
00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:22,840
Speaker 3: terms of organizing for the most part. Right, one is

501
00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:26,840
Speaker 3: mutual aid and one is rapid response. And I just

502
00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:30,399
Speaker 3: want to break down why people are doing mutual aid. First.

503
00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:32,240
Speaker 3: First of all, we're doing mutual aid because it is

504
00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:33,880
Speaker 3: the way that we build a better world by taking

505
00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:36,680
Speaker 3: care of one another without trying to extract profit from

506
00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:39,800
Speaker 3: one another. Why they're doing it is because people right

507
00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:43,359
Speaker 3: now who are at risk of deportation are afraid to

508
00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:48,600
Speaker 3: leave their homes. They are living like a lot of

509
00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:51,439
Speaker 3: Jewish people lived in nats. This is this is a

510
00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:55,399
Speaker 3: comparison to somebody whose grandparents fled the Holocaust made for

511
00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:59,159
Speaker 3: us today, like Jewish people did Nazi Germany.

512
00:25:59,240 --> 00:25:59,320
Speaker 2: Right.

513
00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:01,439
Speaker 3: The difference is this time they know their neighbors have

514
00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:05,240
Speaker 3: their back. Yeah, and so they're afraid to go out.

515
00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:05,520
Speaker 2: Right.

516
00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:08,639
Speaker 3: Schools are offering remote education because kids are afraid to

517
00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:12,680
Speaker 3: go to school because ice has been hitting school bus stops. Yeah.

518
00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:15,600
Speaker 3: People can't go out and get groceries, and they can't

519
00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:18,960
Speaker 3: go to their jobs, so they can't pay their bills.

520
00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:21,280
Speaker 3: And so that requires if we want to take care

521
00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:23,320
Speaker 3: of people, we have to feed them. We have to

522
00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:26,000
Speaker 3: help them pay their bills, meet their material needs, get

523
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:31,160
Speaker 3: their kids educated. That is a heavy lift. Capitalism extracts

524
00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:33,760
Speaker 3: are pretty heavy fee for paying rent. Right, we give

525
00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:37,720
Speaker 3: most of our lives, yeah, to capital so that we

526
00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:40,280
Speaker 3: can get food and pay rent and clothes and shit.

527
00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:43,760
Speaker 3: We have to do that without that here, right, and

528
00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:47,280
Speaker 3: people are doing it. So they are organizing food drop off,

529
00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:52,200
Speaker 3: they're organizing diaper banks, they're organizing to give people rides

530
00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:56,400
Speaker 3: who might not feel safe driving by themselves. Yeah, they're

531
00:26:56,440 --> 00:26:59,400
Speaker 3: taking people's kids. Some often right. A scenario that I'm

532
00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:03,640
Speaker 3: very familiar with is citizen children born to non citizen parents.

533
00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:07,199
Speaker 3: So those kids, no one is safe when you have

534
00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:10,760
Speaker 3: this many people running around with weapons, right and very

535
00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:13,960
Speaker 3: poor training and then a lot of anger and yeah,

536
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:16,479
Speaker 3: not very good at driving in the snow. But their

537
00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:18,760
Speaker 3: kids are still able to go out and go to school.

538
00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:22,160
Speaker 3: But it's about idea for their parents are taken, right.

539
00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:26,760
Speaker 3: So you're seeing people organizing school runs, getting food for people.

540
00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:29,320
Speaker 3: Then you've got businesses that are owned by migrants, right

541
00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:32,280
Speaker 3: like there, or businesses that are largely staffed by migrants.

542
00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:34,840
Speaker 3: So it's trying to keep those places afloat so that

543
00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:37,840
Speaker 3: community can continue to care for itself. But when it's

544
00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:41,080
Speaker 3: workers can't come in, or what if the majority of

545
00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:44,240
Speaker 3: the clean tell of the business and migrants, well, maybe

546
00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:47,880
Speaker 3: people volunteer to do delivery, right, so that that business

547
00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:50,280
Speaker 3: can stay afloat and those migrants can still get the

548
00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:52,119
Speaker 3: foods that make them feel safe at a time when

549
00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:54,480
Speaker 3: they don't feel safe. Whatever it is, right, people are

550
00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:59,880
Speaker 3: meeting each other's needs without trying to extract, like find

551
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:01,520
Speaker 3: actual compas station from each of them.

552
00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:03,639
Speaker 2: And to talk about the decentralized nature of this again,

553
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:08,040
Speaker 2: and it's like hyper local like no org, many orgs,

554
00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:11,840
Speaker 2: but no one org stepped in and was like, ah,

555
00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:14,200
Speaker 2: this is the way to do it. Here's this top

556
00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:19,359
Speaker 2: down flow chart. Instead. All of these groups started in

557
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:21,760
Speaker 2: different ways, like we've talked to people from like different

558
00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:24,520
Speaker 2: neighborhoods where like ah, it all started like this, and

559
00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:27,679
Speaker 2: then they paint a completely different picture from people from

560
00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:31,760
Speaker 2: three blocks over. Yeah. Yeah, and like you know, someone

561
00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:35,639
Speaker 2: was like the mutual aid here started with one mom

562
00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:40,239
Speaker 2: who was like, while I'm making food, yeah, and in

563
00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:42,240
Speaker 2: her own kitchen made food.

564
00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:42,960
Speaker 3: Yeah.

565
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:46,160
Speaker 2: And then it was like I will carry the entire

566
00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:48,600
Speaker 2: weight of the world as necessary upon my shoulders.

567
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:50,640
Speaker 3: And then other people.

568
00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:52,960
Speaker 2: Were like, okay, I'll help you lift this. I think

569
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:55,000
Speaker 2: of the have you seen the meme about like I

570
00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:58,040
Speaker 2: can't lift weights with my anarchist friends. No, I can't

571
00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:00,239
Speaker 2: lift weights with my anarchist friends because every time might

572
00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:03,320
Speaker 2: pick up the barbell, like thirty of my friends come

573
00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:05,680
Speaker 2: over and help me lift the bar bell while singing

574
00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:09,480
Speaker 2: John Henry.

575
00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:11,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's perfect, And.

576
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:15,600
Speaker 2: That's like what's happening here? Yeah, you know, And so

577
00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:18,320
Speaker 2: one person starts doing this thing and people say, oh,

578
00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:20,760
Speaker 2: that's a good idea, and there are these other networks

579
00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:23,880
Speaker 2: that can then tie that in and people will be

580
00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:26,160
Speaker 2: heavily involved in one network and have a little bit

581
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:28,640
Speaker 2: of an understanding what's happening in the other networks. Yeah,

582
00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:30,840
Speaker 2: but enough people are talking to each other that they're

583
00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:34,560
Speaker 2: learning best practices, they're learning what doesn't doesn't work, and

584
00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:37,800
Speaker 2: they're also changing to get to mean the threat. Yeah.

585
00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:39,720
Speaker 3: I think the other thing is here that no one's

586
00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:43,040
Speaker 3: coming in with like tax deductible funding. Yeah. Right, this

587
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:45,200
Speaker 3: is just people taking care of people.

588
00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:45,880
Speaker 2: Yeah.

589
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:49,600
Speaker 3: That has been sustainable for some time, right, like since

590
00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:52,920
Speaker 3: since mid December we're now in late January. That is

591
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:56,440
Speaker 3: a thing that like there's a need for money, yeah,

592
00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:58,120
Speaker 3: to keep banking that happen, and that is an area

593
00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:00,280
Speaker 3: where people outside of Minneapolis going to help, they want to,

594
00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:02,200
Speaker 3: So I just want to flag that. Yeah, and we

595
00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:04,920
Speaker 3: will drop some resources at the end of these two episodes,

596
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:07,040
Speaker 3: and we'll drop at the end of the first episode

597
00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:09,720
Speaker 3: and hopefully you'll if you feel so inclined, you'll be

598
00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:13,760
Speaker 3: able to help financially. But yeah, let's talk about rapid response.

599
00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:16,360
Speaker 2: ICE is not as large of an agency as they

600
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:18,720
Speaker 2: wish it was. You know, there's so much news about

601
00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:21,280
Speaker 2: how hard of a time they're having hiring people, to

602
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:24,840
Speaker 2: the point where they like hired the like leftist journalist too,

603
00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:28,800
Speaker 2: was like, yeah, applied as a joke, you know here.

604
00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:29,000
Speaker 3: You know.

605
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:32,600
Speaker 2: And so they've they've had the surge here, the flood

606
00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:35,400
Speaker 2: they called it, I believe of agents here and you

607
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:37,720
Speaker 2: know there's about three thousand I think ice agents in

608
00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:37,960
Speaker 2: the city.

609
00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:40,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it was metro surge here. Midway flood

610
00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:41,720
Speaker 3: was Chicago.

611
00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:46,760
Speaker 2: Okay, And they can't do that everywhere at once. So

612
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:51,840
Speaker 2: if you play video games, Minneapolis is tanking. Did you

613
00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:54,160
Speaker 2: know the concept of tanking. Yeah, you'd ask to be

614
00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:56,800
Speaker 2: a video game. You do in Dungeons Dragons, I know,

615
00:30:56,960 --> 00:30:58,640
Speaker 2: I know they do it. Yeah, you can tank in

616
00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:01,520
Speaker 2: Dungeons and Dragons, but the actual Weirdly, I think the

617
00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:04,680
Speaker 2: concept of tanking comes not from Dungeons and Dragons. Yeah,

618
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:07,320
Speaker 2: later additions that this is a nerd tangent.

619
00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:11,360
Speaker 3: Anyway, James and Margaret talk about Dungeons Dragons eptomology.

620
00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:16,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, the concept is that one person stands there and

621
00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:20,600
Speaker 2: takes the damage while other people heal that person and

622
00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:24,000
Speaker 2: do damage to the people attacking that person.

623
00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:25,600
Speaker 3: Well prepared themselves.

624
00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:29,760
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, in the video game version, as you you know,

625
00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:32,200
Speaker 2: one person takes all the damage while everyone else is

626
00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:35,960
Speaker 2: also helping do the damage back, because that's literally just

627
00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:40,320
Speaker 2: the World of Warcraft version. But Minneapolis is tanking. It's

628
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:46,320
Speaker 2: the Twin Cities and Minnesota are tanking, and all of

629
00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:49,320
Speaker 2: the ice agents that are here aren't somewhere else. Yeah.

630
00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:51,680
Speaker 2: And one of the ways that they're making that possible

631
00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:52,720
Speaker 2: it's a rapid response.

632
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:53,440
Speaker 3: Yeah.

633
00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:55,960
Speaker 2: And rapid response that's what the name says. That is

634
00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:59,400
Speaker 2: a way to respond rapidly. Which is the other Okay,

635
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:00,719
Speaker 2: this is the other question, and I have coming in

636
00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:02,760
Speaker 2: Why does this work? This was my thought. I was like,

637
00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:06,000
Speaker 2: why does blowing whistles at ice agents make them not

638
00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:09,040
Speaker 2: able to kidnap people? So I was like does this work?

639
00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:11,040
Speaker 2: That was one of the main questions we ask people.

640
00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:14,400
Speaker 2: The answer is yes, it doesn't work all the time.

641
00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:18,800
Speaker 2: This is still a tragic situation where if everyone involves

642
00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:24,160
Speaker 2: is kind of traumatized to medium to greater degrees. I

643
00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:28,280
Speaker 2: don't want to say the lesser degrees. But what happens

644
00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:34,280
Speaker 2: is is that if the ice agents are outnumbered, they

645
00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:38,600
Speaker 2: usually don't successfully abduct anyone, even though they're the only

646
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:42,080
Speaker 2: harmed people in the situation, even though they theoretically the

647
00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:45,280
Speaker 2: way that police would act. Being outnumbered it helps, but

648
00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:48,280
Speaker 2: it's not as much of a game changer. Yeah, with

649
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:54,240
Speaker 2: ICE being wildly unpopular occupying force so far at least currently,

650
00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:59,480
Speaker 2: outnumbering them seems to often stop abductions. At first, I

651
00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:03,520
Speaker 2: believe to Zemberish, the way that ICE was handling things

652
00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:06,120
Speaker 2: was these big, spectacular raids that we've seen in a

653
00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:08,360
Speaker 2: lot of places. Thirty agents are showing up and raiding

654
00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:10,880
Speaker 2: this place, right, and so if you get a call

655
00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:13,240
Speaker 2: about that, a rapid response can be twenty minutes, it

656
00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:15,720
Speaker 2: can be thirty minutes. You can show up and you're

657
00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:18,840
Speaker 2: still part of fighting against this happening. And this is

658
00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:22,040
Speaker 2: what's happening all over the country, right. Yeah, So ICE

659
00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:25,959
Speaker 2: here adapted and started moving faster and faster. Yeah, and

660
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:28,600
Speaker 2: so now often these abductions take two or three minutes.

661
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:31,680
Speaker 2: So they were like, how do we get a crowd

662
00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:35,160
Speaker 2: in two minutes? And when when an organizer first, like

663
00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:37,360
Speaker 2: everyone here is an organizer. When a person who does

664
00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:39,880
Speaker 2: this first suggested that to me, my thought was like,

665
00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:44,000
Speaker 2: well you don't, Yeah, that's impossible, but it's not.

666
00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:44,840
Speaker 3: They do it.

667
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:52,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, and they do it because everyone here in Minneapol.

668
00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:54,560
Speaker 2: Like I not everyone everyone, but I I haven't run

669
00:33:54,600 --> 00:34:02,280
Speaker 2: across too many counter examples. Yeah, is themselves willing to respond. Yeah. Like,

670
00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:07,200
Speaker 2: and so when you hear people honking and whistles outside.

671
00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:12,520
Speaker 3: You go outside. Yeah, I mean we heard someone was

672
00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:14,719
Speaker 3: mentioning that they had seen and to be clear, this

673
00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:19,120
Speaker 3: morning again the real feel was in the minus thirties

674
00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:24,319
Speaker 3: celsius and fahrenheit, which is the last Friday. But they

675
00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:26,240
Speaker 3: have said they were on the block, they heard some honking,

676
00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:29,239
Speaker 3: they come outside. There they were outside and cut off

677
00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:33,000
Speaker 3: pajama pants and crogs, screaming and blowing whistles right like,

678
00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:36,960
Speaker 3: and you we saw it, even when someone mistook us

679
00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:39,279
Speaker 3: for ice agents. Right and within a couple of minutes

680
00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:41,040
Speaker 3: a couple of people are come and we were to

681
00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:44,839
Speaker 3: go with your list like yeah, long hair like sap

682
00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:48,560
Speaker 3: them range, Yeah, exactly like crusty like you can you.

683
00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:50,680
Speaker 2: Can see us coming but out of state plates. Yeah.

684
00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:54,400
Speaker 3: A city is made of people, right like that. The

685
00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:56,319
Speaker 3: people are out there, the blood pumping through the veins

686
00:34:56,360 --> 00:34:59,279
Speaker 3: of a city. It's not made of buildings. And there

687
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:02,839
Speaker 3: are people every were and when all of them are

688
00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:06,919
Speaker 3: willing to show up, right or half of them? Yeah, Well,

689
00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:09,120
Speaker 3: in the entire time we have seen here, the only

690
00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:12,080
Speaker 3: person who has expressed any negativity about what is happening

691
00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:14,840
Speaker 3: is a person in a truck today who was honking

692
00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:17,120
Speaker 3: at a large protest that we were part of in

693
00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:19,720
Speaker 3: a way that was clearly adversarial. Oh yeah, yeah, literally

694
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:20,760
Speaker 3: one person.

695
00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:21,760
Speaker 2: He was also stuck.

696
00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:23,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, he was also stuck and have been stuck for

697
00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:27,560
Speaker 3: some time and hid struggling with a merged situation that

698
00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:28,440
Speaker 3: happened when.

699
00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:31,160
Speaker 2: We actually don't know as political opinions.

700
00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:33,800
Speaker 3: He was unhappy. It was just that's the only person

701
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:38,920
Speaker 3: I've seen express any upset, Like every the person checking

702
00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:43,000
Speaker 3: us out at the supermarket, the people who we have

703
00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:47,200
Speaker 3: run into a coffee shops right like Rando's outside the

704
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:51,200
Speaker 3: Dollar General store, people we see in the street. But

705
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:52,960
Speaker 3: people we see in the street are standing it. It's

706
00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:54,799
Speaker 3: cold as fuck. No one wants just like vibing on

707
00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:58,640
Speaker 3: a park bench currently, but everyone, yeah, is one hundred

708
00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:00,560
Speaker 3: in it.

709
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:03,279
Speaker 2: On the fuck these guys page, Yeah, like we we

710
00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:05,960
Speaker 2: today we heard about an ice vehicle that crashed into

711
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:08,360
Speaker 2: a pole and This is actually fairly common, I believe,

712
00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:11,040
Speaker 2: because one they don't know how to drive in ice, yeah,

713
00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:15,440
Speaker 2: and Minneapolis is icy, and they were driving like a

714
00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:17,359
Speaker 2: I don't know whether the vehicles all we were drive

715
00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:19,560
Speaker 2: or not. It was the Ford Escape, yeah, but it

716
00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:24,279
Speaker 2: was some not altering tires. Yeah, No, those were pretty

717
00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:28,560
Speaker 2: those were some California ass to ice. Yeah. And it's

718
00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:31,080
Speaker 2: just crashed into a pole in a like pretty impressive way,

719
00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:32,879
Speaker 2: like going at a decent speed.

720
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:35,799
Speaker 3: Yeah. They both hair bags had deployed, the radiator was done,

721
00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:38,720
Speaker 3: the engine block was you know, like, Yeah, they'd crumpled

722
00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:42,880
Speaker 3: the front of the car. It's because they drive erratically

723
00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:45,040
Speaker 3: when people are driving behind them trying to get rid

724
00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:49,000
Speaker 3: of them, and they are driving ill equipped, both skill

725
00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:53,200
Speaker 3: wise and vehicle wise. Yeah, and so we showed up. Yeah,

726
00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:55,640
Speaker 3: an hour and a half after the crash. They just

727
00:36:55,680 --> 00:36:58,480
Speaker 3: abandoned the vehicle. They're like, they came and got some

728
00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:00,919
Speaker 3: of their stuff out of the car. To your guess, Yeah,

729
00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:01,759
Speaker 3: I tossed some seer guys.

730
00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:04,160
Speaker 2: We saw the canister on the ground of Safes Gas

731
00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:06,520
Speaker 2: and they just left it there and they were not

732
00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:08,480
Speaker 2: going to clean it up. I don't believe they will

733
00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:11,560
Speaker 2: ever clean it up. That'll be on the local police

734
00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:15,840
Speaker 2: or whoever, you know, city And we're standing there and

735
00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:19,920
Speaker 2: a guy drives by and he's just a normal man. Yeah,

736
00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:25,480
Speaker 2: no distinguishing features yet, no belief to be a subcultural

737
00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:28,440
Speaker 2: or lefty or someone drives by and it is like,

738
00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:31,480
Speaker 2: oh shit, is everyone okay? And I was like, oh,

739
00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:34,560
Speaker 2: that's a nice vehicle, and he just starts laughing, he

740
00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:39,840
Speaker 2: barks his car, he gets yeah yeah, and this happens

741
00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:41,960
Speaker 2: over and this is must have been happening over and

742
00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:43,600
Speaker 2: over over an hour to happen. Yeah.

743
00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:46,200
Speaker 3: What else I noticed then was like, so we were

744
00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:49,200
Speaker 3: walking up and this this person popped out of their

745
00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:52,279
Speaker 3: house and was like, hey, what's happening. We were like, oh,

746
00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:54,359
Speaker 3: I spiffed it into this pole. Yeah, And they were

747
00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:56,839
Speaker 3: like okay, if you guys need anything, like I'm here,

748
00:37:56,920 --> 00:37:58,800
Speaker 3: I'm taking care of some kids or an elder. I

749
00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:00,480
Speaker 3: can't remember, but they were like, you need to come

750
00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:02,239
Speaker 3: in the house. It's called just come to come knock

751
00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:03,880
Speaker 3: on the door, like you need a hot drink, you know.

752
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:06,239
Speaker 2: Like, and we're more press, We're not like hello, we

753
00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:07,600
Speaker 2: are the activists.

754
00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:09,520
Speaker 3: You know. Yeah, like you know, I'm to be clear,

755
00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:11,879
Speaker 3: I'm wearing a helmet mark. Were both wearing helmets with

756
00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:15,360
Speaker 3: with big blue press patches on them. So one of

757
00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:18,400
Speaker 3: the things I noticed is like, and it's been repeated

758
00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:20,160
Speaker 3: a bit and then reported on a little bit, like

759
00:38:20,200 --> 00:38:22,560
Speaker 3: these three D printed whistles. Right, Yeah, one of the

760
00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:26,040
Speaker 3: ways that people identify someone was saying them that people

761
00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:28,680
Speaker 3: know you're cool. It's like people are all carrying whistles

762
00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:31,920
Speaker 3: around the next like almost. I was just keeping an

763
00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:34,080
Speaker 3: eye on this is as we met people throughout the

764
00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:37,279
Speaker 3: last few days. Everybody had a caribbean with their keys

765
00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:39,279
Speaker 3: and a whistle on it, or a whistle around their neck,

766
00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:42,560
Speaker 3: or there was a whistle on a lanyard on their wrist.

767
00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:43,760
Speaker 3: It's like a little marker.

768
00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:46,640
Speaker 2: And what's interesting is we've talked to people about how

769
00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:48,080
Speaker 2: at the beginning, I know a lot of people are like,

770
00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:50,960
Speaker 2: this seems kind of silly. Yeah, right, You're like, oh,

771
00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:54,960
Speaker 2: they're the Federal I mean there's the Gestapo, right yeah yeah,

772
00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:59,400
Speaker 2: and we have whistles and so it seems so absurd. Yeah,

773
00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:03,680
Speaker 2: but there's so many parts of it they hate. They

774
00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:07,000
Speaker 2: want to operate in secrecy. Yeah, yeah, we see watchers

775
00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:10,279
Speaker 2: on every corner. We don't see ice, Like this is

776
00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:14,280
Speaker 2: a city under occupation, but it's like visibly under occupation

777
00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:18,160
Speaker 2: by its own defenders. Yeah right, it is like infiltrated

778
00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:22,319
Speaker 2: by federal agents. Not like you don't you know, I've

779
00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:25,480
Speaker 2: been in places where you have like the the police

780
00:39:25,560 --> 00:39:30,000
Speaker 2: rolling around in their tank things with Yeah, and like

781
00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:34,520
Speaker 2: this isn't that because they can't actually express much force.

782
00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:37,399
Speaker 3: They can't even be seen as you go. They're trying

783
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:40,440
Speaker 3: their very hardest to hide, right, They have tinted vehicles,

784
00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:43,200
Speaker 3: they cover their faces. They keep getting different rentals so

785
00:39:43,239 --> 00:39:47,200
Speaker 3: people can't recognize it. Yeah, Like they are trying their

786
00:39:47,239 --> 00:39:51,120
Speaker 3: best to blend in and failing. Yeah.

787
00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:54,520
Speaker 2: And everyone having a whistle. So not only is it

788
00:39:54,560 --> 00:40:00,000
Speaker 2: effective because it draws attention to them, it makes you

789
00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:04,920
Speaker 2: a defender. It's a very cheap and easy way you

790
00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:09,399
Speaker 2: hand the whistle, and you're handling them responsibility. You're saying

791
00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:12,040
Speaker 2: like you are now it's like, I mean he's handing

792
00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:14,640
Speaker 2: some of their goddamn sword, you know, in a like

793
00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:17,440
Speaker 2: night fantasy land way, right, Yeah, like you're one of

794
00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:19,279
Speaker 2: us when we take care of each other, and you

795
00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:21,360
Speaker 2: are going to defend people. Yeah, and you're going to

796
00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:26,120
Speaker 2: defend people by casting these people like it's so interesting

797
00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:28,839
Speaker 2: because I'm so used to thinking like power doesn't need

798
00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:32,160
Speaker 2: to hide, right, Like, yeah, you know, and when journalists

799
00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:35,360
Speaker 2: are like, oh, well, what they really fear is the truth,

800
00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:38,319
Speaker 2: and you know, I'm like, well, power doesn't need to hide.

801
00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:41,520
Speaker 3: But the power is not with the folks driving around

802
00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:47,400
Speaker 3: and occupying the city right now. The more relevant power

803
00:40:48,520 --> 00:40:50,359
Speaker 3: is with the folks standing on street corners who don't

804
00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:52,360
Speaker 3: feel the need to hide, who want afraid, right.

805
00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:58,160
Speaker 2: And like, this is part of why I hate saying

806
00:40:58,200 --> 00:41:01,239
Speaker 2: things like this. I think we're gonna win, yeah, And

807
00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:05,600
Speaker 2: I haven't felt that way in years, And like, yeah,

808
00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:11,680
Speaker 2: I think that this spirit, the spirit that is animating

809
00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:14,719
Speaker 2: this city is the thing that will get us through it.

810
00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:17,600
Speaker 2: And when I say when when conditions are all weird

811
00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:20,080
Speaker 2: and hard and we're going to lose a lot of people,

812
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:22,280
Speaker 2: like we're going to lose a lot.

813
00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:24,239
Speaker 3: Of like grabbing people up the street hair every day

814
00:41:24,239 --> 00:41:25,000
Speaker 3: to style of this.

815
00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:28,000
Speaker 2: Because when I'm like, oh, people are stopping so many abductions,

816
00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:32,319
Speaker 2: they're also everyone we've talked to has stop abductions and

817
00:41:32,520 --> 00:41:35,200
Speaker 2: failed to stop abductions. Yeah, and that haunts a lot

818
00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:39,319
Speaker 2: of them. I think I think so too, And yeah,

819
00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:42,520
Speaker 2: people are really torn between those two things.

820
00:41:42,640 --> 00:41:45,879
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'll just say that like as someone who's been

821
00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:47,480
Speaker 3: in it for a minute when it comes to like

822
00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:51,279
Speaker 3: advocacy for migrants, right. Yeah, If I go back three

823
00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:57,320
Speaker 3: years ago to twenty twenty three, it was one hundred

824
00:41:57,640 --> 00:42:02,720
Speaker 3: crusties and anarchists and Quakers and Sikhs who were feeding

825
00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:06,040
Speaker 3: thousands of people in the desert, right, and in a

826
00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:08,839
Speaker 3: big city metro area of three million people forty five

827
00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:11,480
Speaker 3: minutes away. People didn't believe me when I told them

828
00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:14,640
Speaker 3: it was happening, because nobody gave a shit, to include

829
00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:17,400
Speaker 3: the local media. Then I was in La Right in

830
00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:20,120
Speaker 3: summer this year, and there were young folks there who

831
00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:23,160
Speaker 3: were mad as hell and not going to take it anymore, right,

832
00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:26,200
Speaker 3: and did really inspire inst really inspiring stuff and very

833
00:42:26,239 --> 00:42:28,080
Speaker 3: brave stuff. And so many of them were those kids

834
00:42:28,080 --> 00:42:30,000
Speaker 3: who are in that situation where they are citizens and

835
00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:33,160
Speaker 3: their parents are not, and they believe in the right

836
00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:35,040
Speaker 3: to a freedom of expression and speech, and they came

837
00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:38,440
Speaker 3: to use it. Right. But I could walk five blocks

838
00:42:38,520 --> 00:42:41,480
Speaker 3: from there, and it could have been any other day

839
00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:44,880
Speaker 3: in La Right. I went to a fancy coffee shop

840
00:42:44,920 --> 00:42:46,880
Speaker 3: I overpaid for a coffee.

841
00:42:46,480 --> 00:42:48,040
Speaker 2: Because the white people didn't give a shit. I mean,

842
00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:50,960
Speaker 2: or you didn't for the most part. No, you're right,

843
00:42:51,080 --> 00:42:52,080
Speaker 2: could have been they cared.

844
00:42:52,120 --> 00:42:53,400
Speaker 3: I think they cared. A lot of people say, oh,

845
00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:56,920
Speaker 3: it's terrible, what's happening. Yeah, but you know, some people

846
00:42:56,960 --> 00:42:59,600
Speaker 3: spoke to me about their film script la. Right, that's

847
00:42:59,600 --> 00:43:03,200
Speaker 3: a given, But it did not feel like the city

848
00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:07,880
Speaker 3: was locked in. This feels different to that. Yeah, it

849
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:13,320
Speaker 3: feels more locked in than it even felt in twenty twenty. Yeah,

850
00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:16,520
Speaker 3: because everybody sees this is an external thing.

851
00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:21,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, but do you know what doesn't like doing transitions

852
00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:21,840
Speaker 2: right now?

853
00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:22,239
Speaker 3: It's me.

854
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:25,120
Speaker 2: I don't actually like doing it, but that is my job.

855
00:43:25,200 --> 00:43:37,280
Speaker 2: And here's some ads, and we're back. The external threat

856
00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:40,960
Speaker 2: part is really fascinating and is like a key to

857
00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:43,280
Speaker 2: a lot of this. I believe, you know, the difference

858
00:43:43,360 --> 00:43:46,080
Speaker 2: between the tone of twenty twenty, where it was this

859
00:43:46,760 --> 00:43:50,120
Speaker 2: nationwide internal threat. This is still absolutely present, right, is

860
00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:52,319
Speaker 2: absolutely all of the problems from twenty twenty, Yeah are

861
00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:57,919
Speaker 2: still here at up Yeah. Earlier today and we watched

862
00:43:57,960 --> 00:44:01,920
Speaker 2: them arrest a lawyer. Yeah, and we'll get to that.

863
00:44:02,840 --> 00:44:05,640
Speaker 2: But the thing I've been thinking about is that in

864
00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:08,400
Speaker 2: protest movements you often say things like oh, what radicalized you?

865
00:44:08,719 --> 00:44:12,680
Speaker 2: Or I got radicalized by this, or yeah, this isn't radical,

866
00:44:13,239 --> 00:44:18,759
Speaker 2: even though it's higher stakes, more risk, like, yeah, it's

867
00:44:18,880 --> 00:44:21,760
Speaker 2: not radical to say, man, I don't think you should

868
00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:24,920
Speaker 2: kidnap literal children, you know, I don't.

869
00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:28,560
Speaker 3: Think Yeah, which is why very normal people are very

870
00:44:28,600 --> 00:44:29,160
Speaker 3: pissed off.

871
00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:31,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, and like and one of the things has come

872
00:44:31,360 --> 00:44:34,960
Speaker 2: up from multiple people, you know, and and the internet

873
00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:37,000
Speaker 2: commenters will say, well, then why they vote this way?

874
00:44:37,560 --> 00:44:40,920
Speaker 2: And that's just a that doesn't get us anywhere.

875
00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:42,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, what the are you doing?

876
00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:45,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, we've talked to a bunch of people who are like, oh, yeah,

877
00:44:45,880 --> 00:44:49,719
Speaker 2: that Republican business is closed for the general strike. Or

878
00:44:50,560 --> 00:44:54,520
Speaker 2: my neighbor who is very conservative, is pissed as hell.

879
00:44:54,840 --> 00:44:56,719
Speaker 2: Yeah I saw a signed today and we'll get to

880
00:44:56,719 --> 00:44:59,880
Speaker 2: the big protest. I sorry, what would Ronald Reagan do?

881
00:45:00,560 --> 00:45:03,560
Speaker 3: Yeah? The person right, So this person has not just

882
00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:07,160
Speaker 3: thought that. Yeah, they have got out their pens and

883
00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:09,840
Speaker 3: paper and their crafting supplies. Yeah, they've made that sign.

884
00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:12,080
Speaker 3: They've got their ass down to the middle of town

885
00:45:12,239 --> 00:45:15,279
Speaker 3: and it is minus ten minus fifteen, and they are

886
00:45:15,320 --> 00:45:17,960
Speaker 3: out and about with their what would Ronald Reagan sign? Right,

887
00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:19,560
Speaker 3: because they have that pissed off.

888
00:45:19,360 --> 00:45:22,520
Speaker 2: And no one's mad at them. Yeah, because at a

889
00:45:22,640 --> 00:45:25,279
Speaker 2: certain point it doesn't matter.

890
00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:27,399
Speaker 3: Yeah, rather they were here.

891
00:45:27,560 --> 00:45:30,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, like exactly. And like the thing I've been thinking

892
00:45:30,040 --> 00:45:33,480
Speaker 2: about a lot is that glad you're here, gets so

893
00:45:33,600 --> 00:45:37,160
Speaker 2: much further than what took you so long. Yeah, And

894
00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:41,719
Speaker 2: there just is a line. The federal government has crossed it.

895
00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:45,440
Speaker 2: And the more people who are aware of that, the better.

896
00:45:46,160 --> 00:45:49,799
Speaker 3: Yeah. I think it's really important that part of the

897
00:45:49,920 --> 00:45:53,640
Speaker 3: organizing here has been so wide and so inclusive and

898
00:45:53,719 --> 00:45:55,960
Speaker 3: so broad and yet so focused.

899
00:45:56,080 --> 00:45:56,239
Speaker 2: Right.

900
00:45:56,400 --> 00:45:59,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's so focused on keeping their neighbors safe. And

901
00:45:59,200 --> 00:46:02,200
Speaker 3: that's it can be so broad because most people think

902
00:46:02,280 --> 00:46:05,480
Speaker 3: that's the right thing to do. That is what is

903
00:46:05,520 --> 00:46:08,640
Speaker 3: allowing them to do this right now. Yeah, And it

904
00:46:08,680 --> 00:46:11,719
Speaker 3: doesn't matter where someone was yesterday or in November of

905
00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:14,280
Speaker 3: twenty twenty four, if they're on a street corner today

906
00:46:14,280 --> 00:46:15,560
Speaker 3: looking out for their neighbors.

907
00:46:16,040 --> 00:46:18,120
Speaker 2: And I'll say that I'm not going to name them,

908
00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:20,879
Speaker 2: but to shout out part of the reason I'm here

909
00:46:21,080 --> 00:46:24,400
Speaker 2: is that like someone I know who I don't know,

910
00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:26,640
Speaker 2: if they have a political ideology to their name, just

911
00:46:27,719 --> 00:46:30,880
Speaker 2: you know, a young queer person I know was talking

912
00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:33,200
Speaker 2: to them a couple of weeks ago and they were

913
00:46:33,239 --> 00:46:36,960
Speaker 2: telling me about how, you know, I didn't understand the

914
00:46:37,120 --> 00:46:39,840
Speaker 2: scope of the rapid response networks, but it's hard to

915
00:46:39,840 --> 00:46:40,800
Speaker 2: see from outside.

916
00:46:40,920 --> 00:46:43,520
Speaker 3: Yes it is, yeah, yeah, and necessarily it's something that

917
00:46:43,560 --> 00:46:45,760
Speaker 3: people don't always talk about to everyone, right.

918
00:46:45,719 --> 00:46:48,520
Speaker 2: Right, totally, And so, you know, talking to this person

919
00:46:48,560 --> 00:46:52,200
Speaker 2: and they're like, oh, earlier today, I you know, went

920
00:46:52,239 --> 00:46:54,120
Speaker 2: and stood in front of apartment building because of ICE.

921
00:46:54,160 --> 00:46:56,319
Speaker 2: And I was like, your apartment building and They're like, no,

922
00:46:56,440 --> 00:47:00,440
Speaker 2: about a block away, and I'm like okay. They're like, yeah,

923
00:47:00,440 --> 00:47:01,600
Speaker 2: I just want to go stand out front to make

924
00:47:01,600 --> 00:47:06,000
Speaker 2: sure ICE didn't get in. And I'm like, okay, I

925
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:08,040
Speaker 2: don't quite understand, you know. And then they're like, oh yeah,

926
00:47:08,040 --> 00:47:10,359
Speaker 2: and I you know, I go to the hotels where

927
00:47:10,400 --> 00:47:12,440
Speaker 2: Ice are at and me and my friends sit there

928
00:47:12,480 --> 00:47:15,000
Speaker 2: and write down license plates and I'm just like, and

929
00:47:15,040 --> 00:47:17,879
Speaker 2: I'm imagining this is just like an activity they're doing.

930
00:47:18,360 --> 00:47:22,480
Speaker 2: I don't quite understand, you know, But I'm like, why

931
00:47:22,520 --> 00:47:24,239
Speaker 2: are you doing it? Right? And not that not that

932
00:47:24,239 --> 00:47:27,200
Speaker 2: it's a it's an obvious answer on some level, but

933
00:47:27,239 --> 00:47:29,799
Speaker 2: they're like because I told myself I was someone who

934
00:47:29,840 --> 00:47:33,520
Speaker 2: would do it's right. Yeah, And I think that then

935
00:47:33,600 --> 00:47:37,640
Speaker 2: in all of our hearts, we tell ourselves that when

936
00:47:37,640 --> 00:47:40,080
Speaker 2: it comes down to it, we do it's right. And like,

937
00:47:40,280 --> 00:47:42,600
Speaker 2: you know, people like talking about like comparisons between now

938
00:47:42,600 --> 00:47:45,080
Speaker 2: in Nazi Germany and the rise of fascism, and they're like,

939
00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:48,040
Speaker 2: you know, there's the meme about like how we all

940
00:47:48,120 --> 00:47:52,319
Speaker 2: ended up fascists. You're failing an open note test, you know,

941
00:47:53,040 --> 00:47:55,160
Speaker 2: But Minneapolis isn't failing the open note test.

942
00:47:55,640 --> 00:47:59,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, they are passing with flying colors, right, Like

943
00:48:00,440 --> 00:48:02,319
Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, I think you know you and I

944
00:48:02,320 --> 00:48:07,000
Speaker 3: have both history appreciators, and history has taught us a lot, right,

945
00:48:07,040 --> 00:48:09,640
Speaker 3: the big coalitions do better than small one or ones

946
00:48:09,680 --> 00:48:13,560
Speaker 3: a fracturing too a million pieces that like leadership isn't

947
00:48:13,600 --> 00:48:17,600
Speaker 3: what we need. Participation is what we need. And yeah,

948
00:48:17,640 --> 00:48:19,520
Speaker 3: you see a lot of it in action here and

949
00:48:19,560 --> 00:48:22,200
Speaker 3: like all of us, right, like anyone who's spent any

950
00:48:22,239 --> 00:48:28,040
Speaker 3: time reading, writing, learning, listening to history whatever has sort

951
00:48:28,120 --> 00:48:31,640
Speaker 3: what would I do? We're finding out is that yeah,

952
00:48:31,719 --> 00:48:33,400
Speaker 3: we're not learning at having thought what would I do?

953
00:48:33,440 --> 00:48:35,880
Speaker 3: And most people have said what I wouldn't be one

954
00:48:35,880 --> 00:48:38,840
Speaker 3: of the ones who did something, So they're doing something.

955
00:48:39,440 --> 00:48:44,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think about maybe my last thought for

956
00:48:44,760 --> 00:48:48,799
Speaker 2: today is that when ice abducts people, which they do

957
00:48:48,840 --> 00:48:51,560
Speaker 2: every day, Yeah, did it just disappear people?

958
00:48:51,640 --> 00:48:51,759
Speaker 1: Right?

959
00:48:51,760 --> 00:48:52,960
Speaker 3: They just show up.

960
00:48:53,239 --> 00:48:55,520
Speaker 2: They pull someone over literally just for being brown, to

961
00:48:55,520 --> 00:48:59,960
Speaker 2: be really transparent. Yeah, Like the police have come out

962
00:49:00,040 --> 00:49:02,359
Speaker 2: and been like, could you please stop pulling over all

963
00:49:02,400 --> 00:49:07,640
Speaker 2: of the brown cops? Yeah? Right, Like and when they

964
00:49:07,680 --> 00:49:12,319
Speaker 2: when they pull someone over, they just take them and

965
00:49:12,360 --> 00:49:17,560
Speaker 2: they leave the car, sometimes running, sometimes in drive, Yeah,

966
00:49:17,680 --> 00:49:21,040
Speaker 2: and just drive away. And I was like, are we

967
00:49:21,080 --> 00:49:22,880
Speaker 2: walking into a ghost town? Right? Are we going to

968
00:49:22,920 --> 00:49:25,920
Speaker 2: see this everywhere? And like, in my three days here,

969
00:49:25,960 --> 00:49:28,080
Speaker 2: I haven't seen the abandoned vehicle except the ice abandoned

970
00:49:28,120 --> 00:49:32,000
Speaker 2: vehicle that get crashed. But it is happening every day,

971
00:49:32,080 --> 00:49:34,320
Speaker 2: and we have talked to people who see it every day.

972
00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:42,239
Speaker 2: And a very common activity is the ghastly approaching an

973
00:49:42,239 --> 00:49:46,400
Speaker 2: abandoned vehicle abandons there the vehicle that has been the

974
00:49:47,200 --> 00:49:51,080
Speaker 2: occas and trying to figure out who the fuck it

975
00:49:51,239 --> 00:49:57,160
Speaker 2: was and going through and finding the information to contact

976
00:49:57,160 --> 00:50:03,120
Speaker 2: people's loved ones and and say like, hey, your your

977
00:50:03,160 --> 00:50:07,080
Speaker 2: wife has been stolen? Yeah, you know and like and that,

978
00:50:07,320 --> 00:50:11,560
Speaker 2: and we were talking to you know, a decent number

979
00:50:11,600 --> 00:50:13,080
Speaker 2: of the people that we talked to about this were

980
00:50:13,160 --> 00:50:16,960
Speaker 2: Jewish and they're you know, talking about like this is

981
00:50:18,360 --> 00:50:21,640
Speaker 2: what my family told me about. Yeah, you know, and

982
00:50:21,719 --> 00:50:24,360
Speaker 2: like that was one of the first things that someone

983
00:50:24,360 --> 00:50:27,600
Speaker 2: told me that really made me cry. This whole thing

984
00:50:27,600 --> 00:50:34,160
Speaker 2: has been like really challenging all my cynicism and detached

985
00:50:34,320 --> 00:50:38,960
Speaker 2: us from from hard things. But hearing those stories and

986
00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:42,239
Speaker 2: then just seeing the people who do that, which could

987
00:50:42,239 --> 00:50:49,080
Speaker 2: be anybody. Yeah, because people step up. It's a god.

988
00:50:49,160 --> 00:50:53,880
Speaker 2: I just a I I say, I can only imagine it,

989
00:50:54,320 --> 00:50:56,200
Speaker 2: you know, but it like that's a that is a

990
00:50:56,280 --> 00:51:01,680
Speaker 2: daily reality. Here is someone will just stolen. Yeah, a

991
00:51:01,760 --> 00:51:04,520
Speaker 2: person was just stolen, and I have to go through

992
00:51:04,520 --> 00:51:06,959
Speaker 2: their effects to figure out who they were.

993
00:51:07,480 --> 00:51:10,880
Speaker 3: Yeah. I guess when we were speaking about that, I

994
00:51:11,000 --> 00:51:12,960
Speaker 3: was thinking about experiences I've had in the desert right

995
00:51:13,000 --> 00:51:16,160
Speaker 3: where you find someone's bag as they're walking through and

996
00:51:16,200 --> 00:51:18,160
Speaker 3: it's got too hot. They've taken off their bag, and

997
00:51:18,200 --> 00:51:20,919
Speaker 3: you go through all the little ephemera, the little things

998
00:51:20,920 --> 00:51:25,080
Speaker 3: that people thought were worth carrying across the world, and

999
00:51:25,560 --> 00:51:27,719
Speaker 3: you try to piece together their life and work out

1000
00:51:27,719 --> 00:51:30,000
Speaker 3: who they are, and you look at pictures of their children,

1001
00:51:30,040 --> 00:51:32,040
Speaker 3: and you look at pictures of their spouse and their home,

1002
00:51:32,120 --> 00:51:37,280
Speaker 3: and you hope that they're okay, right, And in this instance,

1003
00:51:37,920 --> 00:51:41,760
Speaker 3: they're not okay, right. And it's not the abstract violence

1004
00:51:41,760 --> 00:51:44,200
Speaker 3: of the structures of borders and walls and surveillances that

1005
00:51:44,239 --> 00:51:46,640
Speaker 3: have killed them or taken them. In this instance, right,

1006
00:51:47,520 --> 00:51:49,680
Speaker 3: it's five people in masks in a car over there,

1007
00:51:50,560 --> 00:51:52,680
Speaker 3: and it's happening in the middle of cities where people

1008
00:51:52,680 --> 00:51:54,239
Speaker 3: can see it. Right. Part of the function of the

1009
00:51:54,239 --> 00:51:56,360
Speaker 3: border is to take the violence away from where people

1010
00:51:56,360 --> 00:51:59,399
Speaker 3: can see it. And they got away with that for

1011
00:51:59,440 --> 00:52:01,560
Speaker 3: so long that they figured they could just bring it

1012
00:52:01,600 --> 00:52:06,080
Speaker 3: into cities. And it makes my heart so proud that

1013
00:52:06,120 --> 00:52:08,640
Speaker 3: when people could see it, they said, fuck no, you're

1014
00:52:08,680 --> 00:52:11,640
Speaker 3: not doing this in my town. Because for so long

1015
00:52:11,719 --> 00:52:15,879
Speaker 3: I've believed that if people could, Like the reason I'm

1016
00:52:15,880 --> 00:52:19,880
Speaker 3: a Jeralist, right, the reason that I have spent a

1017
00:52:20,120 --> 00:52:24,000
Speaker 3: better part of ten years I'm like receiving trauma is

1018
00:52:24,040 --> 00:52:26,439
Speaker 3: because I really believe in my heart that people could

1019
00:52:26,480 --> 00:52:28,759
Speaker 3: if people could see the cruelty, they would care and

1020
00:52:28,800 --> 00:52:33,600
Speaker 3: they would do something. And like this confirms that for me, Right,

1021
00:52:33,600 --> 00:52:35,560
Speaker 3: people can see it and they have cared and they

1022
00:52:35,560 --> 00:52:38,920
Speaker 3: have done something amazing, right, and that makes me so

1023
00:52:39,520 --> 00:52:40,719
Speaker 3: proud of them.

1024
00:52:40,880 --> 00:52:46,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, the paradise built in hell, as Soulment put it.

1025
00:52:46,760 --> 00:52:53,840
Speaker 2: You know, people are finding community and a really active

1026
00:52:53,840 --> 00:52:57,080
Speaker 2: way and learning what people can do for each other

1027
00:52:57,440 --> 00:52:59,719
Speaker 2: and the levels in which people are plugging in. You know,

1028
00:52:59,719 --> 00:53:02,959
Speaker 2: there's a whole long sending cliche that for every front

1029
00:53:02,960 --> 00:53:05,719
Speaker 2: line access, there's ten support people. Yeah, and you're like,

1030
00:53:06,200 --> 00:53:09,640
Speaker 2: well here, it's those lines aren't so clearly delineated. Yeah,

1031
00:53:10,400 --> 00:53:13,640
Speaker 2: because on some level, you know, we've talked to people

1032
00:53:13,680 --> 00:53:17,239
Speaker 2: who have been like, oh my my neighbor who you

1033
00:53:17,320 --> 00:53:19,200
Speaker 2: know has so many mobility issues that they can't leave

1034
00:53:19,239 --> 00:53:19,640
Speaker 2: their house.

1035
00:53:19,880 --> 00:53:20,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're just.

1036
00:53:20,560 --> 00:53:21,520
Speaker 2: Hanging on the front porch.

1037
00:53:22,200 --> 00:53:26,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, on the front line. Yeah, exactly, because the front

1038
00:53:26,000 --> 00:53:26,600
Speaker 3: line comes to you.

1039
00:53:26,920 --> 00:53:29,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like we talked to someone earlier who was pepper

1040
00:53:29,920 --> 00:53:32,719
Speaker 2: spread this morning while walking their dog. Yeah, you know,

1041
00:53:33,000 --> 00:53:40,480
Speaker 2: because while walking their dog they witnessed masked agents stealing

1042
00:53:40,480 --> 00:53:45,680
Speaker 2: a person. Yeah, well I about to do it for

1043
00:53:46,000 --> 00:53:52,440
Speaker 2: part one of it. Could cool people here and uh,

1044
00:53:52,560 --> 00:53:55,759
Speaker 2: we'll be back on Wednesday or whenever. It We actually

1045
00:53:55,800 --> 00:53:57,120
Speaker 2: don't know what the scheduling is going to be of

1046
00:53:57,120 --> 00:53:58,160
Speaker 2: this particular episode.

1047
00:53:58,280 --> 00:54:00,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, we'll be back in the subsequent episod of the podcast.

1048
00:54:00,840 --> 00:54:01,680
Speaker 3: Feed you're listening to you.

1049
00:54:01,880 --> 00:54:08,000
Speaker 2: That's right, that's right, And yeah, you're gonna final Let

1050
00:54:08,000 --> 00:54:08,560
Speaker 2: me say this, right.

1051
00:54:09,680 --> 00:54:12,279
Speaker 3: I was really sad when I came here because my

1052
00:54:12,320 --> 00:54:16,319
Speaker 3: friends were dying Reshaba. Yeah, and I wish I was

1053
00:54:16,360 --> 00:54:21,200
Speaker 3: with them in a strange way, Yeah, because I know

1054
00:54:21,280 --> 00:54:24,440
Speaker 3: the sense of togetherness they feel and I felt that

1055
00:54:24,520 --> 00:54:27,800
Speaker 3: here and that was really special for me because I

1056
00:54:27,840 --> 00:54:29,640
Speaker 3: would struggle to be dealing with this alone.

1057
00:54:31,600 --> 00:54:35,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, and we're gonna talk a bit more about rapid

1058
00:54:35,200 --> 00:54:38,560
Speaker 2: response stuff. And there's also just a point some articles

1059
00:54:38,600 --> 00:54:41,359
Speaker 2: people's way. There's a series of articles that came out

1060
00:54:41,400 --> 00:54:45,080
Speaker 2: from crimethink, which is crimethink dot com that have talked

1061
00:54:45,120 --> 00:54:47,719
Speaker 2: about some of the structures of rapid response networks. And

1062
00:54:48,239 --> 00:54:51,360
Speaker 2: people here are putting together a lot of resources about

1063
00:54:52,040 --> 00:54:54,360
Speaker 2: what they have and haven't learned. And we're gonna be

1064
00:54:54,440 --> 00:54:57,080
Speaker 2: talking about some of those things that people have learned

1065
00:54:57,080 --> 00:55:01,360
Speaker 2: and things like that. But it's really worth understanding wherever

1066
00:55:01,440 --> 00:55:04,640
Speaker 2: you are because you're also that person who can hang

1067
00:55:04,680 --> 00:55:06,680
Speaker 2: out on your front porch. I mean not necessarily literally

1068
00:55:06,760 --> 00:55:08,360
Speaker 2: you hang out on your front porch. But it's like

1069
00:55:09,239 --> 00:55:14,360
Speaker 2: the idea is when the entire city mobilizes, it works.

1070
00:55:14,880 --> 00:55:18,560
Speaker 2: And I think that when we realize that we can

1071
00:55:18,600 --> 00:55:24,399
Speaker 2: mobilize the entire country, that works. That's my theory. Yeah,

1072
00:55:24,640 --> 00:55:25,560
Speaker 2: see y'all soon.

1073
00:55:27,120 --> 00:55:30,160
Speaker 3: Hi friends, it's me James. I'm back, and I'm back

1074
00:55:30,200 --> 00:55:32,359
Speaker 3: because we ask in people on the ground if they

1075
00:55:32,360 --> 00:55:35,879
Speaker 3: could provide us with some links to places where people

1076
00:55:35,920 --> 00:55:38,359
Speaker 3: could donate that have been vetted that they knew would

1077
00:55:38,400 --> 00:55:41,319
Speaker 3: be going to people helping people on the ground, and

1078
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Speaker 3: they provided us with a lot of different links. So

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Speaker 3: I'm going to tell you what each of these links are,

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Speaker 3: and if you'd like to donate, you can just scroll

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Speaker 3: on down whichever app you're using to the podcast show

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Speaker 3: notes and you can click one of the one of

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Speaker 3: the links below. So there's rent support for neighbors in Phillips,

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Speaker 3: rent support for neighbors in Central, rent support for neighbors

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Speaker 3: in Powderhorn, supplies for political art making, protective gear for

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Speaker 3: legal observers, diapers, and menstrual supplies. There are abolish iced

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Speaker 3: T shirts that you can purchase. There is a fundraiser

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Speaker 3: for Northstar Frontline Street Medics and the Twin Cities Swirlitariat Bailfund.

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Speaker 3: There are links for both of venmo and cash app

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Speaker 3: donation there.

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Speaker 1: It Could Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media.

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Speaker 1: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website

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Speaker 1: Coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

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00:56:35,920 --> 00:56:39,480
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can

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00:56:39,520 --> 00:56:41,840
Speaker 1: now find sources for it Could Happen Here, listed directly

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Speaker 1: in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening.