Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news. Bloomberg Tech is a
Speaker 1: live from Coast to coast with Caroline Hide in New
Speaker 1: York and Eva low intend Francs go.
Speaker 2: This is Bloomberg Tech coming up.
Speaker 3: Qualcom gives an upbeat forecast, but it fell short of
Speaker 3: investor expectations. We'll discuss why with the CEO.
Speaker 4: Plus the earnings don't stop their executives from Figma, Robin Hood,
Speaker 4: Chime and Lift.
Speaker 5: They join us after important results.
Speaker 3: And all eyes on Tesla as we await the outcome
Speaker 3: of a shareholder vote on a one trillion dollar pay
Speaker 3: package for Elon.
Speaker 5: Musk and Tesla.
Speaker 4: It weighs on the broader market said, let's get to
Speaker 4: those broader markets on the day, because well, overall, we've
Speaker 4: got a lot of macro data to be digesting, and
Speaker 4: that feeds in the angst that we've been seeing in
Speaker 4: tech stocks. More broadly, we're of by one point on
Speaker 4: the NASDAK one one hundred.
Speaker 5: We're still questioning valuations.
Speaker 4: It's interesting that the AI play moves into the macro
Speaker 4: in terms of jobs data not coming from the federal departments,
Speaker 4: but it is coming from Challenger Gray and Christmas and
Speaker 4: they're saying, we've never seen in October as bad as
Speaker 4: this in twenty years in terms of one hundred and
Speaker 4: fifty three thousand jobs losses, AI automation being blamed Bitcoin
Speaker 4: of by one point seven percent.
Speaker 5: We got some risk aversion ed.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 3: In the chip sector, we have two very similar stories
Speaker 3: with two very different reactions. ARM has given us a
Speaker 3: bullish outlook for the current period, which basically suggests they're
Speaker 3: making traction.
Speaker 2: In AI.
Speaker 3: The shares that opened a lot higher, we're now down
Speaker 3: two percent. Qualcomm again giving a pretty bullish outlook for
Speaker 3: the current period, traction in traditional markets, diversifying revenue, but
Speaker 3: that stock is down four percent at the high end
Speaker 3: of high end of estimates. They didn't quite get there.
Speaker 3: Then there's in the media and entertainment space, Warner Brothers
Speaker 3: Discovery actually missed estimates on revenue in the quarter, but
Speaker 3: amid plans for a sale or some kind of transaction,
Speaker 3: that's really all the street really cared about, it is, and.
Speaker 4: Let's dig into that street reaction, the stock reaction.
Speaker 5: Hannah Miller's here to covering.
Speaker 4: All things media, and really almost these numbers vindicated the
Speaker 4: decision by David Zazov to be separateing out the businesses
Speaker 4: talk us through it.
Speaker 7: Yeah, so this morning we heard David Zaslov really play
Speaker 7: up the strength of the studio segment. They had some
Speaker 7: big blockbuster hits this summer with Superman and Weapons.
Speaker 8: He wants buyers to.
Speaker 7: Look at the movie business, not the street the TV network's.
Speaker 2: Business, of course.
Speaker 3: Mister Sarsluff was asked about what happens next, and his
Speaker 3: response was pretty straightforward. We have an active process underway.
Speaker 3: Are you able to tell us any more, Hannah, about
Speaker 3: what an active process underway means.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 7: They want to move quick on this, and we're expecting
Speaker 7: to get more news in December about this deal. You know,
Speaker 7: the bids have to come in. They have to consider
Speaker 7: all the interests they're getting from players like Netflix, Comcast,
Speaker 7: and Paramount. It's going to be really interesting to see
Speaker 7: how it plays out.
Speaker 4: But Hannah, are they the names that we're limited to,
Speaker 4: or could we see big tech throw it's had in
Speaker 4: the ring? Who else might be interested in a CNN
Speaker 4: on one side or more of the studios on the
Speaker 4: other side.
Speaker 8: Yeah.
Speaker 7: We're also you know, hearing whispers about Amazon. You know,
Speaker 7: they could come in as they try to continue building
Speaker 7: out their prime video streaming service. You know, there are
Speaker 7: these valuable assets. You know, there is the focus on
Speaker 7: the movie business HBO, but we have to remember that
Speaker 7: their CNN, there's a valuable sports portfolio. There are some
Speaker 7: really nice assets up for grabs here.
Speaker 3: Blom Bogs, Hannah Miller, thank you very much. Let's get
Speaker 3: back to the chip sector. ARM gave a bullish revenue forecast,
Speaker 3: helped by rising interest in designing chips to run AI
Speaker 3: data centers. Congenser Barney, senior analyst at Bloomberg Intelligence, writing,
Speaker 3: operating expenses remain elevated on AI investments and full chip initiatives,
Speaker 3: but long term share gains and rising royalty content continue
Speaker 3: to support its outlook. Conngenser Barni joins us now on
Speaker 3: mix money. In two ways, it licenses the blueprints the
Speaker 3: underlying technology for a chip, and then it gets royalty
Speaker 3: in each unit of that chips that's sold. The story
Speaker 3: here is about what ARM is offering in the AI
Speaker 3: accelerator space or in the data center context.
Speaker 2: Explain what you saw in the numbers that they gave.
Speaker 9: Yeah, the data center strength was really the highlight, as
Speaker 9: you mentioned ed when you look at the royalty revenues
Speaker 9: from the data center. Last fiscal year it was about
Speaker 9: ten percent of royalties. We expect this now to get
Speaker 9: to almost eighteen to twenty percent, so a two x
Speaker 9: increase in one year by the end of fiscal twenty six.
Speaker 9: What's really driving here In the quarter, they signed a
Speaker 9: lot of CSS license deals. Basically, they're licensing their IP
Speaker 9: to a lot of data center customers, whether it's been
Speaker 9: the merchant customers, the ACIC designers, soft Bank, and even
Speaker 9: Chinese customers. A lot of these licenses when eventually you
Speaker 9: get converted into royalty revenues, hence creating a tailwind for
Speaker 9: layering more and more royalty debsues.
Speaker 8: Their share is significantly.
Speaker 9: Increasing quarter over quarter and is as we know. And
Speaker 9: Media is going to launch their service with the Blackwell.
Speaker 9: The Blackwell service or the CPU in that service are
Speaker 9: going to be based on the RP. And you look
Speaker 9: at Amazon ramping its grivet and chip that's based on
Speaker 9: the RP, Google sexim chip based on the RP. So
Speaker 9: they're seeing significant share games here, which eventually sets them
Speaker 9: up to have strong royalty growth in the future from
Speaker 9: the data center.
Speaker 4: Segmentunjin, you mentioned SoftBank course, soft Bank is the main
Speaker 4: owner of some of it trades on the public markets,
Speaker 4: big player in just the broader AI space Stargate for example.
Speaker 4: Did you get enough detail from Rene Has the CEO
Speaker 4: of arm about their role in Stargate in the big
Speaker 4: build out?
Speaker 9: We did like So if you look at the numbers
Speaker 9: this quarter, Software brought in somewhere about one hundred and
Speaker 9: eighty million in royalty revenues, fifty million jump from just
Speaker 9: last quarter. Also, when we look at revenues by GEO,
Speaker 9: Japan is becoming now almost fifteen to twenty percent of revenue,
Speaker 9: which until a few quarters ago Japan was merged into
Speaker 9: small category other.
Speaker 8: So that tells you that.
Speaker 9: The amount of revenue both from royalty side and licensing
Speaker 9: that Softmaen is bringing into this company and going to
Speaker 9: become a significantly big concentrated.
Speaker 8: Customer going forward.
Speaker 9: Software has a lot of portfolio companies that acquired Graphcore
Speaker 9: mper so you can imagine it's a leading indicator of
Speaker 9: where they would be using arm IP. Also, there's news
Speaker 9: about Software working with Armed sort of develop their own chips.
Speaker 3: Qualcom strong outlook for the current period suggests strengthen Android
Speaker 3: and efforts to diversify revenue sources doing well. We're sharing
Speaker 3: your research on the screen. Conjen, very quick, give us
Speaker 3: your react.
Speaker 8: Yeah, it was a good quarter.
Speaker 9: But the concern here is that the fear that they
Speaker 9: would go back to seventy five percent of share at
Speaker 9: Samsung comes to be coming true.
Speaker 8: So that's I think what investors didn't like.
Speaker 9: We think that Apple share is higher than what we
Speaker 9: feared seventy it's close to eighty to eighty five percent,
Speaker 9: but that goodness got offset by the Samsung share drop.
Speaker 4: Conjin Savani, always great research from you and the team.
Speaker 5: We appreciate it. Of Blomberg Intelligence shares a quil Com.
Speaker 4: We check in on them because they're reported last night.
Speaker 4: They're training a little bit lower today. But the chip
Speaker 4: maker actually really delivered an upbeat forecast. They had sales
Speaker 4: and profits handily topping Wall Street expectations.
Speaker 5: But maybe the market got ahead of itself.
Speaker 4: Let's talk about it all and the real fundamentals with
Speaker 4: Christiano Ammon's quill Com CEO. And I'm sure it's really
Speaker 4: frustrating to start on the start on the stock market reaction,
Speaker 4: But what do you think investors had done ahead of this?
Speaker 5: Have they got over excited.
Speaker 4: We're seeing this play out with a few of the
Speaker 4: chip sector.
Speaker 10: Look, it is really hard to predict the market right now,
Speaker 10: but we're We're incredibly happy about the company. I think
Speaker 10: we're executing very well our strategy, explaining out perfectly. Everything
Speaker 10: we said we're going to do, we're actually doing better.
Speaker 10: And like I could not be more excited about so
Speaker 10: many things that are going well at Qualcomm right now
Speaker 10: and the new opportunities we have in the future. I
Speaker 10: think the company is very different. We had expanded beyond
Speaker 10: handsets into a number of different markets.
Speaker 8: The results are showing.
Speaker 10: And there are very few companies like wealcom that can
Speaker 10: go from five watts chips for earbuds all the way
Speaker 10: to now five hundred watts chips for a data center.
Speaker 10: And I think that's how we think about the opportunity.
Speaker 4: We can't wait to get into more on the detail
Speaker 4: of how you're jumping into the AI accelerator offering, but
Speaker 4: just going to the smartphone business, which.
Speaker 5: Is the bread and butter.
Speaker 4: What are you seeing at the moment and particularly what
Speaker 4: inroads you're making an Android?
Speaker 10: Yes, so, you know, I think this is a very
Speaker 10: interesting and it's you know, every quarter we see this.
Speaker 10: I know there's a lot of conversation about it, but
Speaker 10: it's a trend that has happened to qualkom over the
Speaker 10: past several years. I want everybody to step back and
Speaker 10: look at what's happening with the hands and marketingneral they
Speaker 10: hants it. Smartphone is the most important consumer electronic purchase
Speaker 10: in the world. It's aren't separable device and people want
Speaker 10: always to get a better device when they buy a
Speaker 10: new device. What we see right now is the expansion
Speaker 10: of the premion teer. So the market Caroline didn't. The
Speaker 10: units of hands and market is still smaller in an
Speaker 10: annual basis than used to be before COVID. But what
Speaker 10: has happened and is driving a lot of growth from
Speaker 10: Qualkan and Android over the past several years is the
Speaker 10: premium teer is expending in size. So if you look
Speaker 10: at a United States market, most devices are premionteer. Most
Speaker 10: people will buy like an iPhone or Galaxy. That's now
Speaker 10: happening everywhere in the world. It's happening in China's happening
Speaker 10: in India. So we see premionteer expending. That makes you
Speaker 10: a much richer market for us, and then we see
Speaker 10: phones becoming more capable, more compute, more AI. That is
Speaker 10: driving silicon content. That's why Android continues to grow with
Speaker 10: Snapdragon eight. And I think the upside that we have
Speaker 10: seen above expectations is really Android expansion for Qualcom.
Speaker 2: Christiano, good morning.
Speaker 11: It's ed.
Speaker 3: What you've tried to do is diversify away from mobile
Speaker 3: and away from Apple. Right, but there are so many
Speaker 3: categories now data center, but auto, mixed reality. Which of
Speaker 3: those is the fastest moving for you?
Speaker 2: Right now?
Speaker 10: Look right now you probably see in terms of the
Speaker 10: speed it's automotive. I think we have been growing significantly
Speaker 10: on an ear of a year basis, and most of
Speaker 10: our growth, again, like the conversation with Hints, it has
Speaker 10: nothing to do about the market side. It's just us
Speaker 10: gaining share those cars becoming really computer on wheels, and
Speaker 10: we build a digital platform for the core industry, which
Speaker 10: is the Snapdragon Digital chassis. So when you talk about
Speaker 10: diversification away from hintst in an Apple, a couple of
Speaker 10: things that actually came out in those results. They are
Speaker 10: incredible and show what we've been saying we're doing it.
Speaker 10: We just close our fist career the non Apple related
Speaker 10: growth in the company about eighteen percent, and when you
Speaker 10: look at segments like automotive, we're actually doing significantly higher
Speaker 10: than that. And that's also the other segment as well.
Speaker 10: The other part of the question is what's moving faster,
Speaker 10: and we are incredibly optimistic about those new category of
Speaker 10: mobile devices, which we call personal AI devices, as AI
Speaker 10: models and agent applications started to appear for consumers. That's
Speaker 10: materializing with devices that people wear like US glasses for example,
Speaker 10: really becoming agenta glasses, and we said two billion of
Speaker 10: revenue by fiscal twenty nine.
Speaker 8: We're way ahead of that.
Speaker 10: Just looking of how to performing right now, especially with Meta.
Speaker 3: This is the first opportunity we've had to speak to
Speaker 3: you since the Big Data Center News AI two hundred
Speaker 3: to start, and the question that I've had most often
Speaker 3: for you from the audience is what is quite different
Speaker 3: about Qualcom's approach, particularly to inference. You have this AI
Speaker 3: accelerator family or MPU. How is it different from an
Speaker 3: nvideo or AMD GPU, a broad coom, Marvel XPU, or
Speaker 3: this large body of startups that are basically chasing rack
Speaker 3: scale solutions for AI.
Speaker 10: Yes, so I'll start answering the question by saying the following.
Speaker 10: There's a lot of people that will love Qualcom. There
Speaker 10: are people they're not gonna like Qualcom. But one thing
Speaker 10: everybody's probably going to say, don't bet against Qualcom being
Speaker 10: a technology competent company. I think look just last year
Speaker 10: with the number one company in America in terms of
Speaker 10: patent applications and every market that we actually enter, we
Speaker 10: developed something very unique from a technology leadership. So now
Speaker 10: to answer your question, what are we doing, We're actually
Speaker 10: were very focus on the next phase of data center,
Speaker 10: the next phase of data center. If you expect all
Speaker 10: of those projections to materialize and all of those companies
Speaker 10: investing in data center ANDAI to deliver the profitability the
Speaker 10: market expects they're going to have to do.
Speaker 8: Inference.
Speaker 10: Inference is wreactly when you put AI into production at scale.
Speaker 10: And if you see just some of the conversations you're
Speaker 10: seeing the market right now about concerns of growth rates.
Speaker 10: Power is one of the concerns. You need a lot
Speaker 10: of energy. So we're coming from our DNA of building devices.
Speaker 10: They're very efficient in power, and we think about what
Speaker 10: are the architecture that is dedicated for inference, especially for
Speaker 10: the post GPU. I think architecture, and I think that's
Speaker 10: what we're doing. I think we're developing an architecture that
Speaker 10: is optimized to the highest possible compute density you can
Speaker 10: put on a data center for a very efficient power
Speaker 10: and people are interested, and we're.
Speaker 8: Just busy executing. I think the other part.
Speaker 10: Of the answer, ED is will you why you not
Speaker 10: think the potcom will have an opportunity to participate? The
Speaker 10: market is so big we don't have to get a lot.
Speaker 10: Everything we get is multiple or billions of dollars.
Speaker 4: Christiana, you brought up a really interesting if if some
Speaker 4: of the big numbers that are being bounded about by
Speaker 4: the big players come to light, three trillion dollars by
Speaker 4: twenty twenty eight is what Morgan Stanley thinks is going
Speaker 4: to be needed in data centers.
Speaker 5: What if it doesn't, is there.
Speaker 4: A risk that we actually innovate because we have to
Speaker 4: invade because there isn't enough power and suddenly that data
Speaker 4: center demand just isn't going.
Speaker 5: To live up to that expectation.
Speaker 10: Now for quockcom for us is oh upside.
Speaker 4: So do you think can I just get a take
Speaker 4: on whether you think that three trillion dollars figure if
Speaker 4: it is reasonable. Do you have any negative worries, any concerns.
Speaker 8: Look, I don't.
Speaker 10: I believe that the need for compute is very clear.
Speaker 10: That's not only also not only on the data centers, everywhere.
Speaker 10: I think we see that on phones, we see that
Speaker 10: on cars, we see that on PCs. AI needs a
Speaker 10: lot more computing power, and I think I believe what
Speaker 10: that will actually do is create opportunity for innovation, and
Speaker 10: there'll be competition. Right now, everybody's playing to win, everybody's
Speaker 10: building data centers to win, and then there's going to
Speaker 10: be competition. And I think that's what our focus is.
Speaker 10: But I don't believe the trend and the need for
Speaker 10: a computer. You can have an argument about the timing,
Speaker 10: but the trend is very clear. Here's one way I'll
Speaker 10: describe it to you, and I'll be very careful.
Speaker 8: With my words.
Speaker 10: The Internet, when we thought about what the Internet will
Speaker 10: be back in nineteen ninety nine, is bigger today. It's
Speaker 10: much d Internet's much bigger today than people thought. So
Speaker 10: I think on the long run, AI is probably underestimated.
Speaker 8: It's going to be bigger.
Speaker 10: The question is always going to be about timing, and
Speaker 10: we're prepared for when there's going to be competition.
Speaker 3: Christiano Iman of Qualcom, great to have you back on
Speaker 3: the show, Thank you very much. Figma delivered an upbeat outlook,
Speaker 3: projecting stronger than expect to coally revenue and profit, citing
Speaker 3: strong demand and growing adoption of its new products. I
Speaker 3: sat down with CEO Dylan Field, who began by explaining
Speaker 3: the impact to growth from acquiring Weav, a startup focused
Speaker 3: on generating imagery with AI within a web browser.
Speaker 6: Weav is this amazing product where you can bring in
Speaker 6: a whole sorts of models, you can compose them in
Speaker 6: a notebase system, which basically means drag and draw visual programming,
Speaker 6: and from there you can really start to explore what's
Speaker 6: possible with various models. So for us, it's a bet
Speaker 6: that the starting prompt is just the starting prompt, it's
Speaker 6: not the end. What you need to do is shape
Speaker 6: these outputs almost like a medium like clay, rather than
Speaker 6: try to go for the one shot and then the
Speaker 6: final destination should be what you get through throughout this process.
Speaker 6: The team itself is incredible. I mean they've managed to
Speaker 6: really balance simplicity with power so that they're able to
Speaker 6: achieve an incredible environment for creative exploration and process and
Speaker 6: workflow building, and really excited to work with them and
Speaker 6: build this out further.
Speaker 3: It brings me back to the customer behavior question. So
Speaker 3: revenue for the full year will be one point zero
Speaker 3: four four billion to one point zero four six billion dollars.
Speaker 3: But I guess it's is this existing customers using more
Speaker 3: products or is it a custom account growing higher because.
Speaker 2: You're offering a wider range of products.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean definitely both, and also new customers adopting.
Speaker 6: We are seeing an acceleration all that, and our NDR
Speaker 6: for example, from one twenty nine to one thirty one
Speaker 6: percent this quarter, and that's on over ten k err customers.
Speaker 6: The way that we look at just what's going on
Speaker 6: overall is people really like the platform aspect of Figma,
Speaker 6: and that is something that drives adoption. But also the
Speaker 6: interoperability between the different products we have is really important
Speaker 6: and something that we're trying to make all the better.
Speaker 2: All the time.
Speaker 3: In the quarter gone, net losses were driven by stock
Speaker 3: based compensation.
Speaker 6: Yeah, the one from event related to the IPO in particular.
Speaker 3: Related to the IPI particular, but you know, stock based
Speaker 3: comp is part of this business in the world of technology,
Speaker 3: but it's also like part of the fabric and culture
Speaker 3: of the technology industry, particularly now where we have this
Speaker 3: fixation on AI talent. What is your strategy going to
Speaker 3: be from this point, Dylan, just less stock comport or
Speaker 3: you just have to manage it differently.
Speaker 6: Well, I think that, first of all, it starts with
Speaker 6: making sure that you see and everyone sees stock based
Speaker 6: compensation as a natural expense, and I think that as
Speaker 6: we build out we will see that number normalize on
Speaker 6: a nine gap basis. This is a profitable quayer for us,
Speaker 6: and we continue to invest heavily in the short term
Speaker 6: in order to drive long term platform growth and capabilities
Speaker 6: for our customers. I think that every customer wants that,
Speaker 6: and our investors want that as well.
Speaker 4: Dylanfield, Figma CEO with you, Ed. I mean, while Robin
Speaker 4: Hood also reported earnings yesterday, shares actually falling them this morning.
Speaker 4: Though the company's crypto earnings they were lower than expected, Meanwhile,
Speaker 4: operating costs they were higher. Now, Robinhood, CEO of lad Tenev,
Speaker 4: sat down with us yesterday and discussed the trading platform's
Speaker 4: plan to expand its offering.
Speaker 12: The interesting thing about prediction markets is it rounds out
Speaker 12: the offering in sort of like complete the time at
Speaker 12: which Robinhood customers can continue to engage with the platform.
Speaker 12: For a while, we were offering prominantly US equities, which
Speaker 12: is very much at US East Coast working hours type
Speaker 12: of event markets are open, you know, nine to four
Speaker 12: East Coast hours, and then we've expanded that over time
Speaker 12: with US introducing twenty four hour market, We've added crypto
Speaker 12: and now prediction markets. A lot of the events, particularly
Speaker 12: in sports, are happening nights and weekends, so robin Hood
Speaker 12: is becoming increasingly a twenty four seven platform where you
Speaker 12: can trade and invest in global markets at all.
Speaker 2: Times of the day.
Speaker 12: And I think our customers do tend to be digitally
Speaker 12: native and quite savvy. That tends to lean younger, but
Speaker 12: we also have customers that are, you know, in their
Speaker 12: seventies and eights.
Speaker 2: And as long as you're.
Speaker 12: Comfortable doing your finances on a mobile device and you
Speaker 12: want to be at the frontier of technology, I think
Speaker 12: it's something that transcends.
Speaker 2: Just young people.
Speaker 12: Of course, we always want to be relevant to the
Speaker 12: next generation, but Robinhood I feel like you should be
Speaker 12: at a disadvantage if you're using any other platform.
Speaker 3: That was Robin Hood, CEO of lad Tenev, speaking after
Speaker 3: the company's earnings call yesterday and now coming up. AI
Speaker 3: seems to be taking a toll on US jobs. We'll
Speaker 3: talk about the October labor cuts next. This is Bloomberg Tech.
Speaker 4: I'm now for Talking Tech and first time Apple is
Speaker 4: turning to Google for help overhauling his Story Voice assistant. Now,
Speaker 4: the iPhone maker is planning to pay about a billion
Speaker 4: dollars a year for an ultra powerful one point two
Speaker 4: trillion parameter AI model, according to sources, and the hope
Speaker 4: is to use the technology as an interim solution until
Speaker 4: Apple's own models are powerful enough. Plus, AI looks to
Speaker 4: be making its mark on the US labor market. Last
Speaker 4: month saw the most job cuts by US firms for
Speaker 4: October in two decades.
Speaker 5: It's all according to.
Speaker 4: Data from Challenge of Gray and Christmas and at the
Speaker 4: firm point to AI reshaping industries. We're also acknowledging the
Speaker 4: impact of cost cutting and right sizing post pandemic dead.
Speaker 2: Okay, coming up.
Speaker 3: Tesla shareholders have voted on the proposed one trillion dollar
Speaker 3: pay deal for Elon Musk and his future at the company.
Speaker 3: After the market today, we'll find out the results of
Speaker 3: that vote.
Speaker 2: Stay with us. This is Bloomberg.
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Speaker 17: I do not believe any company anywhere near this size
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Speaker 17: So yes, indeed the incentives are aligned. If he and
Speaker 17: his team are able to deliver on that number, the
Speaker 17: stock is going to outperform enormously.
Speaker 3: Kathy, if by chance this proposal is rejected, would you
Speaker 3: consider shedding some of your Tesla position.
Speaker 17: So I'm happy that the prediction markets are at ninety
Speaker 17: to ninety five percent in terms of this is going through,
Speaker 17: so we don't have to think about that.
Speaker 5: Clearly.
Speaker 17: If Elon left, we think about it in two ways.
Speaker 17: One we think robotaxis he has them at the starting
Speaker 17: gate as of June and now they're rolling out and
Speaker 17: that AI project is well underway. If he had left
Speaker 17: five years ago, three years ago, it probably.
Speaker 8: Wouldn't be anywhere near where it is.
Speaker 17: What we now think though, is in order to capitalize
Speaker 17: on humanoid robots, which that's a much more difficult project.
Speaker 17: That yes, Elon's brilliant and the team he has attracted
Speaker 17: around him are going to be necessary to.
Speaker 2: Pull that off.
Speaker 3: That was our CEO and testa shareholder Kafe would her
Speaker 3: firm voting yes on Elon Musk's one trillion dollar compensation package?
Speaker 3: What about firms that voted no. Kalper's, the largest public
Speaker 3: pension fund in the US, voted against the pay passage,
Speaker 3: citing the fact that the deal was far larger than
Speaker 3: CEO pay packages at comparable companies. Drew Hambley is their
Speaker 3: investment director and joins US now. Woods argument there, Drew,
Speaker 3: which you heard, is that if they continue and achieve
Speaker 3: the ebit DAR goals that this proposed package is set
Speaker 3: from us by the board, then the outperformance of the
Speaker 3: stock will make it in the interest of shareholders.
Speaker 2: You don't agree with that.
Speaker 18: Why well, thanks, Ed. So you know, we can't predict
Speaker 18: what the market's going to do, and we're evaluating pay packages.
Speaker 18: We look at them vis a vis other comparable company.
Speaker 18: So let's say he does achieve all those goals, but
Speaker 18: say the market does as well too, Are we really
Speaker 18: paying for alpha or you know, is that a market beta.
Speaker 18: When we looked at the last eight years of returns,
Speaker 18: going back to when the original package was put into place,
Speaker 18: Tesla was one of our best performers.
Speaker 8: It wasn't our best, but it was in our top ten.
Speaker 18: And then when we compared you know, the annualized pay
Speaker 18: of the ninety six million they want to give him
Speaker 18: in the restricted sack award that vests in two years,
Speaker 18: and then we looked at medium pay of these other
Speaker 18: high performers in our portfolio, and that piece of the
Speaker 18: package alone is seventy three times the median of other
Speaker 18: high performing companies and CEOs and our portfolio, and we
Speaker 18: just let that multiple gap was too high.
Speaker 2: Drew.
Speaker 3: The board is going to argue, they have argued on
Speaker 3: this program that Tesla is not comparable to other companies.
Speaker 3: Elon Musk is the only person on the planet who
Speaker 3: has the skill set. Is what Robin Denholm told us.
Speaker 3: The real point of tension that you have with others
Speaker 3: is the concentration of voting power. You said at the
Speaker 3: time that you cast the vote or confirmed it, that
Speaker 3: it put too much concentration.
Speaker 2: Of power in a single shareholder.
Speaker 3: That's exactly the rationale that Elon Musk is proposing investors
Speaker 3: vote in favor of the package. He wants the voting
Speaker 3: power in order to achieve the goals that the board
Speaker 3: have set him. How do you reconcile that going forward?
Speaker 18: Well, we look back and at one point he owned
Speaker 18: twenty five percent of the company and then sort off
Speaker 18: half of it, and they've achieved gause with him being
Speaker 18: a twelve or thirteen percent shareholder. So I don't see
Speaker 18: deluding shareholders by another twelve or thirteen percent and changes
Speaker 18: the dynamic. He also is a person with a huge
Speaker 18: stake in this company. I don't see why he would
Speaker 18: you want to do anything that would damage it. So
Speaker 18: I don't see why he needs any extra control over
Speaker 18: what he already has. I mean, he and the board
Speaker 18: together on about sixteen percent of the company, and you know,
Speaker 18: we don't think diluting ourselves by another potentially trillion dollars,
Speaker 18: you know, changes that dynamic.
Speaker 4: I suppose Elon's argument has been there at this inflection point,
Speaker 4: and it's moving not just from cars and they still
Speaker 4: want to have what twenty million cars on the roads,
Speaker 4: but it's going into the era of AI and into
Speaker 4: humanoid robots.
Speaker 5: The army of robots is going to be producing.
Speaker 4: Would you want him to have the most say over
Speaker 4: an army of humanoid robots?
Speaker 18: Well, I think he already has tremendous say as the
Speaker 18: largest shareholder of the company. You know, as a you know,
Speaker 18: governance person, do we want so much risk in one person?
Speaker 18: You know, maybe he is the visionary that the board
Speaker 18: thinks he is, but we don't know what could.
Speaker 8: Happen to anybody.
Speaker 18: And to have this much risk placed in one person
Speaker 18: and to dilute ourselves just to one person. There's tens
Speaker 18: of thousands of people work in a tesla creating value
Speaker 18: and if it is you know, so key on just
Speaker 18: one person, key person risk, you know, that's a worry
Speaker 18: for me as a shareholder.
Speaker 4: You are all about stewardship and of the pension fundholders
Speaker 4: that you report to ultimately, but you've done this job
Speaker 4: for a long time. Ever, I'm augustanding in other players.
Speaker 4: If Elon Musk was to walk, would that be in your.
Speaker 5: Role of stewardship?
Speaker 4: How do you manage to balance that out of what
Speaker 4: the risk is if indeed he did leave.
Speaker 18: Yeah, So we do think of ourselves as long term
Speaker 18: shareholders and a lot of our portfolio is indexed, and
Speaker 18: so we plan to hold this company for a long time.
Speaker 18: So we try not to worry too much about if
Speaker 18: you know, one person leaves today tomorrow.
Speaker 8: We're in it for the long haul.
Speaker 18: So if you left tomorrow, would there be a short
Speaker 18: term hit to the business. Possibly, But if we're going
Speaker 18: to hold this company for a long time and the
Speaker 18: board you know, has to replace him and get somebody in,
Speaker 18: you know, terrific, maybe not as good as Elion, but
Speaker 18: pretty terrific. We still think we're going to benefit over
Speaker 18: the long term by holding the stack.
Speaker 3: Drew, We got many many questions from our audience for you.
Speaker 3: One of them is what Caroline just asks, what happens
Speaker 3: if Elon leaves tomorrow? I think the other one is
Speaker 3: people would really appreciate an explanation of the criteria by
Speaker 3: which you cast your vote. So you explained on the
Speaker 3: comparisons historic patterns. But one way that it was put
Speaker 3: to me is in the context of CalPERS, is do
Speaker 3: you understand the company. Did you look at the mandatory
Speaker 3: goals set by the board and say, okay, this could
Speaker 3: be to the benefit of our stakeholders in our pension plan.
Speaker 18: Yeah, and we evaluate every pay plan case by case,
Speaker 18: and so we did look at those things. And what
Speaker 18: we're trying to do when we're paying a CEO is
Speaker 18: what part of that return is beta and then where
Speaker 18: is the actual skill? And so it's hard for us
Speaker 18: to predict what the bet is going to be ten
Speaker 18: years from now at the end of this award period.
Speaker 18: And you know, he might do very well. He might
Speaker 18: increase it by six times. The market could go up
Speaker 18: by six times, and that would be you know, how
Speaker 18: would he be any better than anybody else? And so
Speaker 18: to give up that much control and dilute ourselves that
Speaker 18: much for one person, we think is a risk as well.
Speaker 4: There's a risk that he might never achieve these goals.
Speaker 4: And you've seen that with other similar pay packages echoed.
Speaker 4: We've seen it an Airbnb. We've seen the other players
Speaker 4: where they haven't managed to top the goals. Do you
Speaker 4: think a million robotaxes is achievable in the time frame?
Speaker 5: Do you think the FSD is Do you think the
Speaker 5: cars are.
Speaker 18: Well, it's possible that all those things are and I
Speaker 18: think this time to the competition is greater than when
Speaker 18: Tesla came to market with their first car. In terms
Speaker 18: of EVS. You have Google working on robotax as, you
Speaker 18: have the Chinese working on them. So it's going to
Speaker 18: be a more competitive marketplace. Certainly they are in a
Speaker 18: position to be one of the key players in this,
Speaker 18: but you know, ten years from now we might be
Speaker 18: talking about, you know, three other companies that dominate robotaxes.
Speaker 18: That's hard for us to know today.
Speaker 5: True Hammley, it's been great speaking with you. Thank you
Speaker 5: for your time.
Speaker 4: Investment director for Global Public Equity Ever at Kalpers.
Speaker 5: Now, let's take a quick look at the broader markets.
Speaker 4: Right now, Tesla is actually a key drag on the
Speaker 4: NAST that one hundred off by one point eight percent.
Speaker 4: There's also the macro data, the job s data that's
Speaker 4: got people a little bit worried for the month of
Speaker 4: October coming from Challenger Green and Christmas. Let's move over
Speaker 4: though to some individual movers, because earnings have come thick
Speaker 4: and fast, and boy have they moved the stock door
Speaker 4: dash actually having a record drop at the moment. This
Speaker 4: is after their numbers came through. That really in echoing
Speaker 4: to uber, they are reinvesting in the business, reinvesting in Deliveru,
Speaker 4: but that's going to crimp margins and therefore maybe not
Speaker 4: the growth story that many head antici painted from a
Speaker 4: margin and profitability perspective.
Speaker 5: It's off by fifteen percent.
Speaker 4: Snap though it gets a little.
Speaker 5: Bit of AI love.
Speaker 4: Why because well, they've got to deal with perplexity surging
Speaker 4: on that four hundred million dollars perplexity aideal and we
Speaker 4: see it up almost ten percent. Data Dog as well
Speaker 4: having a pretty phenomenal day up twenty one percent ed.
Speaker 4: This is as a software company look managed to keep
Speaker 4: on selling even though we do see it a whole
Speaker 4: new era of AI cohorts coming for that eat their lunch.
Speaker 5: Thus far, they're not eating it.
Speaker 3: This is Bloomberg Tech and you're looking at a live
Speaker 3: shot of the principal room. Check out the Bloomberg Tech podcast.
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Speaker 5: Back to earnings now, Chime.
Speaker 4: It's just posted strong member growth, stable revenue per member,
Speaker 4: and discipline cost execution earnings. They beat expectations, it raised
Speaker 4: guidance and allow's to share buyback plan. And yet the
Speaker 4: stop fools, chime. CEO Chris Britt joins us now. And
Speaker 4: you clearly think your shares are undervalue. That's why you're
Speaker 4: thinking about to a two hundred million dollar share buyback. Chris,
Speaker 4: how do you digest this sort of market move now
Speaker 4: you're a public company.
Speaker 19: Well, thanks for having me on, guys. It's great to
Speaker 19: be with you again. I remember being with you on
Speaker 19: our IPO day.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 8: Look, we're a recently issued stock.
Speaker 19: We've had two quarters now where we've the team's done
Speaker 19: an amazing job executing. We just announced twenty nine percent
Speaker 19: revenue growth year over year, twenty one percent growth in
Speaker 19: our member base. We added four hundred thousand new active members,
Speaker 19: so and we're approving our profitability program profile at the
Speaker 19: same time. So we feel like we're executing really, really well.
Speaker 19: And I think it's incumbent upon us, as a newly
Speaker 19: minted public company to just continue to educate our investor
Speaker 19: base on the enormous opportunity ahead of us. You know,
Speaker 19: there's about two hundred million Americans that make up tow
Speaker 19: one hundred thousand dollars a year that are not well
Speaker 19: served by the incumbents, and so as a newly minted
Speaker 19: public company, there's always a little bit of volatility in
Speaker 19: the stock.
Speaker 8: But I think it's incumbent on us right.
Speaker 19: Now just to continue to execute, and if we do that,
Speaker 19: I think the share price will take care of itself.
Speaker 4: It is a macro picture that perhaps you fight here.
Speaker 4: We're suddenly worrying about fourth quarter. We're worried about a consumer,
Speaker 4: particularly perhaps a less affluent consumer. That is really the
Speaker 4: area you're trying to serve right now. What are you
Speaker 4: seeing in your customer base.
Speaker 19: Well, we actually are serving the seventy percent of America
Speaker 19: that makes up to one hundred thousand dollars a year,
Speaker 19: So this is a very large segment of the population.
Speaker 19: And if you look at our member base, the fastest
Speaker 19: growth that we're seeing is in the seventy five to
Speaker 19: one hundred k earning segment, and I think that's because
Speaker 19: of some of these new products we just launched, like
Speaker 19: our chime car our new Chime card, which is a
Speaker 19: rewards card that gives one point five percent cash back
Speaker 19: on everyday spend and three point five percent on your
Speaker 19: saving to account.
Speaker 8: But I think it is true that.
Speaker 19: There's a bit of a malaise over a lot of
Speaker 19: consumer stocks that they maybe investors, feel like are going
Speaker 19: to have a lot of pressure given the tightening of
Speaker 19: the economy. As it relates to what we're seeing, we
Speaker 19: see a very healthy consumer. We don't see an uptick
Speaker 19: in unemployment or unemployment benefits coming to our accounts. We
Speaker 19: actually are seeing an increase in discretionary spend across our
Speaker 19: member base, and people are going out there. We're seeing
Speaker 19: double digit increases in places like Costco, Amazon. We're seeing
Speaker 19: people go to restaurants more. We're seeing people use door dash,
Speaker 19: Uber eats, paying for convenience. So we're not seeing the
Speaker 19: pressure that I think some companies maybe experiencing out there.
Speaker 8: We see a fairly healthy consumer.
Speaker 3: Actually, Chris, can you talk about how you're getting new
Speaker 3: customers to use more than one product?
Speaker 2: I think was sting.
Speaker 3: Is you letting you clients who might not have a
Speaker 3: sort of direct deposit set up with you experiment with
Speaker 3: my pay for example, are you seeing evidence that they
Speaker 3: then go on to use other things?
Speaker 19: Absolutely, we continue to see if you look at our cohorts,
Speaker 19: and we have this in the supplemental portion of our
Speaker 19: of our earnings, you can see that as our cohorts age,
Speaker 19: they continue to not only adopt products at a faster
Speaker 19: clip early in the relationship, but they also continue to
Speaker 19: throughout the life cycle and over the course of you know,
Speaker 19: these are primary recurring direct deposit relationships that we've really
Speaker 19: honed in and in our business model of being able
Speaker 19: to cultivate and that leads to many, many years of
Speaker 19: recurring revenue and more engagement over time, and as a
Speaker 19: result of that you see expanding average revenue proactive member.
Speaker 8: But yes, it's true.
Speaker 19: We're you know, we're doing everything we can also to
Speaker 19: make our accounts easier to use right out of the gate,
Speaker 19: and we've seen a lot of success with getting people
Speaker 19: to fund accounts and then eventually convert to direct deposit.
Speaker 3: Later, Chris quickly to finish what's the next new product
Speaker 3: front tier for chime.
Speaker 19: Well, we announced on the call a great development for us,
Speaker 19: which is that we converted all of our processing onto
Speaker 19: our own internally built tech stack called Chime Core.
Speaker 8: This is a huge unlock not.
Speaker 19: Just a significant cost savings advantage for US, but also
Speaker 19: it will unleash a new era of innovation for US.
Speaker 19: We announced a number of new features that we're looking
Speaker 19: to launch over the course of the next year. We
Speaker 19: just launched our Chime card that I explained earlier. We're
Speaker 19: going to launch joint accounts, custodial accounts, investment services, and importantly,
Speaker 19: we're going to continue to add more tiers so that
Speaker 19: our more premium members, those that engage with us, the
Speaker 19: engage with us the most and higher earning consumers get
Speaker 19: even more when they bank and do their every day
Speaker 19: payments with Chime, so you should expect to hear more
Speaker 19: on that front as well.
Speaker 3: Chime CEO Chris Britt. Great to have you back on
Speaker 3: the program. Thank you very much. Now coming up, we're
Speaker 3: going to speak with Lift cfo Eron Brewer for the
Speaker 3: company's latest earnings results. Don't want to miss it. This
Speaker 3: is Bloomberg Tech shares them Lift up about seven percent,
Speaker 3: on track for their biggest jump since mid September. The
Speaker 3: company projected an acceleration in bookings this quarter. Easy Investor
Speaker 3: concerns about the company's global expansion efforts. Here with more
Speaker 3: is erin Brewer Lifts CFO. I think what'll be really
Speaker 3: interesting is, Okay, this current period, the outlook is strong,
Speaker 3: but what are the underlying behaviors that you're seeing driving
Speaker 3: that from riders in the different products that they're using.
Speaker 5: Absolutely, you know a couple of things.
Speaker 20: One of the nice things is this acceleration and the
Speaker 20: foundation of our performance is multifaceted. Really, So we've got
Speaker 20: we reported in the third quarter in eighteen percent growth
Speaker 20: and active riders, and yes, that does incorporate our recent acquisition,
Speaker 20: but even in North America, we're seeing the strongest active
Speaker 20: rider growth, hitting all time highs. That's led to gross
Speaker 20: bookings at all time highs, adjustin libita up twenty nine
Speaker 20: percent for the quarter, and then a billion dollars in
Speaker 20: trailing twelve month free cash flow. We've got our partnerships
Speaker 20: with the highest penetration rate ever. That's even before we
Speaker 20: announce the United Airlines deal. We've got, of course, the
Speaker 20: acquisitions flowing in, and we've got loyalty programs that are
Speaker 20: differentiated in the industry, and all of this is driving
Speaker 20: again highest retention rates ever, so your.
Speaker 3: Job's difficult, it's great to have you on the program,
Speaker 3: you know. And when we have a CFO, you have
Speaker 3: this balance, right investing for growth and then discipline. So
Speaker 3: in Europe that's been the strategy. Invest M and A
Speaker 3: in the United States are chasing uber you know, and.
Speaker 2: You need to be disciplined.
Speaker 3: Then you've very keen to talk about the bottom line
Speaker 3: performance you personally, how are you managing that right now?
Speaker 2: What's the priority?
Speaker 8: Absolutely?
Speaker 20: You know a couple things that I would say we
Speaker 20: our market is so large, right, that's what we focus on.
Speaker 20: The penetration and the opportunity to exist broadly in the market.
Speaker 20: Three hundred billion personal vehicle trips that exist across the
Speaker 20: markets we serve. We're not even close to getting, you know,
Speaker 20: as an industry even let alone lift where we can
Speaker 20: potentially be. As it relates to investment, you know, it's
Speaker 20: pretty easy when you're in a growth industry because you've
Speaker 20: got lots of opportunities. So you're right, as a CFO,
Speaker 20: you're thinking about how do you do that in a
Speaker 20: discipline manner. The great thing is is we're sitting here
Speaker 20: today in a position with the strength of our free
Speaker 20: cash flow to be able to do that, to take
Speaker 20: advantage of opportunities where we can drive shareholder value.
Speaker 8: We've also been buying back shares.
Speaker 20: We'll complete a five million dollars share we purchase in
Speaker 20: twenty twenty five, so a nice balance and we see
Speaker 20: that continuing going forward.
Speaker 4: The opportunity many see Aeron at this moment is AV
Speaker 4: and you've taken interesting partnership routes. So we're also doing
Speaker 4: things with Buydo and there's a real commitment here to
Speaker 4: almost own part of the feet of robotaxis. How does
Speaker 4: that change sort of an asset like model that you've
Speaker 4: had thus far.
Speaker 20: Yeah, you know, one of the things I think that's
Speaker 20: really interesting to highlight is that Lift today owns cars
Speaker 20: across multiple cities in the US through our subsidiary Flex Drive.
Speaker 20: Drivers can come and rent, So we really understand this model.
Speaker 5: Of owning assets.
Speaker 20: We have assets on our balance sheet today, and of course,
Speaker 20: as the AV market develops, and we've been very purposeful
Speaker 20: about the partnerships that we are entering, you know, we're
Speaker 20: absolutely going to do that in certain cities as we scale,
Speaker 20: as we learn by do, as you mentioned, is a
Speaker 20: portion of that we'll be doing a little bit of
Speaker 20: that in some of our other partnerships. So it's something
Speaker 20: again we know how to do. We still see ourselves
Speaker 20: long term as an asset like company, but as the
Speaker 20: industry develops, we're going to make some of those investments.
Speaker 4: What's interesting is, I think it's by twenty twenty seven
Speaker 4: you want some of these a these on the road.
Speaker 4: I mean, it's got a commandment for one hundred thousand
Speaker 4: car goal by twenty twenty seven.
Speaker 20: How realistic all these arein uh, you know, that's you know,
Speaker 20: I'm not going to comment on necessarily their goals, but
Speaker 20: we absolutely see if you might, you know, look five
Speaker 20: seven years down the road, you know, perhaps ten percent
Speaker 20: of the volume we serve could be served through avs,
Speaker 20: both the combination of partnerships that we're in and maybe
Speaker 20: assets that we own. So it's a huge opportunity. I
Speaker 20: think the other important thing in that stat though, is
Speaker 20: you're still going to see huge volumes served by drivers.
Speaker 20: That's why we're really focused on the hybrid network. That's
Speaker 20: what's going to make the difference and be economically viable
Speaker 20: erin very quickly.
Speaker 3: What's the timeline to integrate the chauffeuring business into the
Speaker 3: core Lift app.
Speaker 2: Yeah, if at all.
Speaker 20: Well, look that it augments what we've been growing in
Speaker 20: terms of our own business. We have high value modes,
Speaker 20: premium modes on our platform today. They're up fifty percent
Speaker 20: year over year in Q three, So this is a
Speaker 20: great extension to you know, continue to build out that
Speaker 20: offering as it relates to the way that TBR Global
Speaker 20: Schiffeering will operate. They've got incredible clients all around the world.
Speaker 20: It's an fantastic business. It's not going to be on
Speaker 20: the app and the near term, but the syn synergies
Speaker 20: that we see with the fifteen hundred independent fleet operators
Speaker 20: that they engage with across the globe, We're going to
Speaker 20: drive some synergies there, and the service capability they bring
Speaker 20: to our company is incredible.
Speaker 5: Aerin Brouh, I joyed to have you on the show.
Speaker 5: Thank you, c Thank you, Thanks Carolyn, thank you, Ed.
Speaker 5: Stay well. Meanwhile, that does have.
Speaker 4: This edition of Bloomberg Tech Earning Stick and Fast, Earning
Speaker 4: Sick and Fast.
Speaker 2: There's a lot more to come.
Speaker 3: Musk pay vote after the belt, check out the pod,
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Speaker 3: that we're listing on your screen right now, have a
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Speaker 2: This is Bloomberg Tech.