WEBVTT - Tesla's Eye Popping Record 0:00:01.800 --> 0:00:04.440 This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carole Masser and I'm 0:00:04.480 --> 0:00:07.320 Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stanovk. We're here every day bringing 0:00:07.320 --> 0:00:09.840 you the latest news from the world to business and finance, 0:00:09.840 --> 0:00:13.680 plus technology, politics, economics, all partnising the power of Business 0:00:13.680 --> 0:00:17.160 Week reporters and editors, not to mention our journalists and 0:00:17.160 --> 0:00:20.000 analysts in more than one twenty countries. You can download 0:00:20.000 --> 0:00:23.239 Bloomberg Business Week on iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg dot Com. 0:00:23.440 --> 0:00:25.200 You can also listen to our radio show at two 0:00:25.200 --> 0:00:27.880 pm Eastern Time on Bloomberg Radio or watch us on 0:00:27.920 --> 0:00:34.920 YouTube search Bloomberg Global News. Let's get to a story 0:00:35.000 --> 0:00:37.880 that definitely plays into I feel like something Ken Griffin 0:00:37.960 --> 0:00:41.159 said at Citadel saying that the scientists of Maderna and 0:00:41.200 --> 0:00:43.720 fires where they should be at the White House being 0:00:44.000 --> 0:00:47.760 commended for how quickly they got vaccines together. This story 0:00:48.120 --> 0:00:51.240 is talking about Messenger RNA. It's all the rage now. 0:00:51.280 --> 0:00:53.960 We all are talking about it. Investment venture money pouring 0:00:54.000 --> 0:00:57.120 into the area and that includes one specific biotech startup 0:00:57.200 --> 0:00:59.440 or a therapeutic So let's get into it with Rick Shine, 0:00:59.680 --> 0:01:02.240 bloom Work News senior editor on the phone in New 0:01:02.280 --> 0:01:04.520 Jersey along with Business Week editor Joel Weber and our 0:01:04.560 --> 0:01:07.560 Bloomberg Business Week Uh, I should say in our Bloomberg 0:01:07.600 --> 0:01:10.160 Interactor Broker studio right here in New York. So we 0:01:10.200 --> 0:01:13.000 are all like, I feel like we're all like like 0:01:13.040 --> 0:01:18.200 i'mate your scientists a little bit here armchair virologist slash 0:01:18.240 --> 0:01:20.960 scientists at this point yet, Uh, well, you haven't heard 0:01:21.000 --> 0:01:23.640 this part, which is that you know you've known about 0:01:23.959 --> 0:01:26.880 m RNA, that that if you didn't know about it, um, 0:01:27.000 --> 0:01:31.720 you know about it now. But Angelica Levito's story in 0:01:32.000 --> 0:01:35.600 the current issue of the magazine UM is about perhaps 0:01:35.640 --> 0:01:40.000 the next frontier in RNA, which is that's a linear 0:01:40.120 --> 0:01:44.200 little strand almost like a thread, if you will, and 0:01:44.280 --> 0:01:46.360 scientists are now working on a way to bend it. 0:01:46.800 --> 0:01:50.200 And Rick Shin, who who helped edit the stories on Rick, 0:01:50.360 --> 0:01:54.080 why why is bending our RNA into a circle? Why 0:01:54.120 --> 0:01:57.560 would you want to do that? So, hi, Joel, I 0:01:57.600 --> 0:02:01.600 would definitely put myself in the category of arm tore virologists. 0:02:02.320 --> 0:02:07.760 So um. Yeah. So this is basically a technique that 0:02:08.400 --> 0:02:11.520 researchers at Stanford and then later M I. T. Came 0:02:11.600 --> 0:02:17.520 up with two make RNA or a kind of our 0:02:17.639 --> 0:02:23.119 name that also give the message more durable, more stable 0:02:23.240 --> 0:02:25.920 than what we think of as m RNA, which, as 0:02:25.960 --> 0:02:28.519 you correctly put it is that like like a straight 0:02:28.560 --> 0:02:32.760 little strand. So because uh, they're able to like now 0:02:33.280 --> 0:02:37.320 transform this kind of strand into a circle, Uh, it 0:02:37.480 --> 0:02:43.639 makes the the message lasts longer. And so whereas m 0:02:43.760 --> 0:02:47.079 RNA works perfectly well for a vaccine, which has been 0:02:47.120 --> 0:02:52.600 fantastic as we certainly know with moderna advisor vaccines, a circle, 0:02:52.720 --> 0:02:56.880 the hope is will be able to treat cancer and 0:02:57.000 --> 0:02:59.880 other diseases because it will be able to just hers 0:03:00.040 --> 0:03:05.000 is longer in the body. Uh that's thee And this 0:03:05.400 --> 0:03:10.760 um uh young company or a Therapeutics was founded based 0:03:10.800 --> 0:03:16.160 on this research. It's very theoretical still, it's um, you know, 0:03:16.200 --> 0:03:21.440 nothing has really been proven. But uh but investors, are 0:03:21.639 --> 0:03:24.520 you excited enough to have put in a hundred million 0:03:24.560 --> 0:03:28.800 dollars which is not nothing? And so so uh orna, 0:03:28.919 --> 0:03:31.040 you know, it's like it's kind of the story though 0:03:31.120 --> 0:03:34.640 of just like everybody's looking for exposure to like what 0:03:34.760 --> 0:03:38.200 could be the next thing here. And obviously m RNA 0:03:38.440 --> 0:03:41.200 has has potential to do a lot of things other 0:03:41.240 --> 0:03:44.160 than just fight fight COVID. And this could be potentially 0:03:44.160 --> 0:03:46.920 one of those uh things that it could could be 0:03:46.920 --> 0:03:49.280 working against. So who who's behind ORNA? Who are the 0:03:49.320 --> 0:03:54.000 who are the players there? So ARNA was created um 0:03:54.360 --> 0:04:00.560 by a group from m I t uh uh the 0:04:02.280 --> 0:04:09.280 uh let's see um it's um this guy um sorry 0:04:09.360 --> 0:04:12.480 Daniel Anderson. It was like a big deal in uh 0:04:12.640 --> 0:04:17.600 in rna uh technology. One of his researchers actually came 0:04:17.680 --> 0:04:20.680 up with the kind of way that you do this, 0:04:20.720 --> 0:04:24.280 which is essentially cutting up the strand into little pieces 0:04:24.279 --> 0:04:28.800 and having it reformulate itself into a circle. So um 0:04:28.920 --> 0:04:33.280 uh they met with some investors, they created a company. Uh, 0:04:34.240 --> 0:04:39.600 this group MTM got behind it and uh and they're 0:04:39.720 --> 0:04:41.800 they're they're often running. I mean they still have a 0:04:41.880 --> 0:04:46.760 very very far road to go. There's other also, I 0:04:46.839 --> 0:04:48.760 just want to say, there's other companies that are doing 0:04:48.760 --> 0:04:51.720 this what we didn't really have space to get into 0:04:51.720 --> 0:04:54.920 it into the story, but there's a company called Laurent's Therapeutics. 0:04:54.960 --> 0:04:58.760 It's also working on a very similar technology and they're 0:04:59.160 --> 0:05:03.840 backed by flag Chip Pioneering, which is the venture firm 0:05:03.880 --> 0:05:06.800 that helped create modear not. So there's a lot going 0:05:06.800 --> 0:05:09.120 on in this space. Is this that all being considered 0:05:09.200 --> 0:05:11.960 something like Rick kind of a holy grail in terms 0:05:12.000 --> 0:05:17.320 of really changing how we deal with serious diseases cancer. 0:05:17.520 --> 0:05:20.200 Of course, um when it comes to we always talk 0:05:20.240 --> 0:05:23.760 about disruption innovation, right, and it's we feel like medicine 0:05:23.800 --> 0:05:25.479 to some extent and how we think about it and 0:05:25.520 --> 0:05:28.400 treatment modalities that it's lagged a little bit. Could this 0:05:28.480 --> 0:05:30.920 really be the game changer, that it really is a 0:05:31.040 --> 0:05:34.000 very different form of treatment and much more effective, although 0:05:34.200 --> 0:05:35.960 even though it'll take maybe a little while to get there. 0:05:37.080 --> 0:05:39.520 I mean, that's certainly the big hope. And you know, 0:05:39.640 --> 0:05:43.600 people who are former far more knowledgeable about those than 0:05:43.640 --> 0:05:45.840 I am, and we have much deeper pockets than I do. 0:05:45.880 --> 0:05:49.159 Are are really betting on this? So I would I would, 0:05:49.240 --> 0:05:51.720 You know, I would. I would say, we have to 0:05:51.760 --> 0:05:53.480 see where we get. But you know, as I said, 0:05:53.520 --> 0:05:57.080 it's still early, early going. So when we when would 0:05:57.120 --> 0:05:59.760 we know best case scenario? Rick? Like, what's the timeline 0:05:59.800 --> 0:06:02.120 for something like this? Because m R and A was 0:06:02.279 --> 0:06:06.479 kicking around forever before it finally found its momentum. Is 0:06:06.520 --> 0:06:08.400 this something that's like, you know, a year or two 0:06:08.600 --> 0:06:10.320 we'll know what the results of this are. Is it 0:06:10.360 --> 0:06:13.039 more like ten years? I think it's more like a 0:06:13.120 --> 0:06:16.520 year or two because, um, you know, because there's so 0:06:16.560 --> 0:06:19.440 much focused on this and there's so much momentum. I 0:06:19.440 --> 0:06:21.960 mean that the whole story of the m R and 0:06:22.040 --> 0:06:25.960 A vaccine was that there were terrific advances made, but 0:06:26.640 --> 0:06:28.720 you know, no one paid attention to it. They were 0:06:28.760 --> 0:06:32.560 just kind of out there for you know, decades before 0:06:33.200 --> 0:06:37.360 before I really sort of came to came into into 0:06:37.400 --> 0:06:40.039 sharp focus. And so now it was so much money 0:06:40.600 --> 0:06:43.400 and so much expertise focusing on this, I think we 0:06:43.440 --> 0:06:46.760 will go faster. Yeah, exactly. You do feel like that 0:06:46.800 --> 0:06:49.520 there's a lot of money and attention being spent to it. Hey, 0:06:49.600 --> 0:06:51.680 Rick Shawn, thank you so much, Senior editor for Global 0:06:51.680 --> 0:06:53.800 Business News at Bloomberg News on the phone in New Jersey, 0:06:53.839 --> 0:06:56.640 of thanks to Joe Weber, Editor Bloomberg Business Sweek here 0:06:56.640 --> 0:06:59.000 in our Interactive Broker Studio. Be sure to check out 0:06:59.040 --> 0:07:01.960 this story at Bloomberg dot com, business Week dot com 0:07:02.000 --> 0:07:05.000 and on the Bloomberg you're listening to Bloomberg Radio. This 0:07:05.120 --> 0:07:13.280 is Bloomberg. This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer 0:07:13.520 --> 0:07:18.200 and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. All right, 0:07:18.200 --> 0:07:20.040 so you know, it's attracting a lot of money. Bloomberg 0:07:20.040 --> 0:07:22.520 Intelligence in fact expects e s G e T S 0:07:22.560 --> 0:07:25.360 to reach a trillion dollars E s G debt eleven 0:07:25.360 --> 0:07:29.280 trillion by five. It's enticing and perhaps still a bit confusing. 0:07:29.520 --> 0:07:32.000 I gotta say, tim, when it comes to UH investing 0:07:32.000 --> 0:07:34.240 in the E s G space, we're talking about environmental, 0:07:34.320 --> 0:07:37.920 social and governments investing. And in a Saturday column, Andy 0:07:37.960 --> 0:07:40.360 Brown writes about this, Yeah, does it really have the 0:07:40.400 --> 0:07:43.440 effect that people think it's having? He writes about someone 0:07:43.520 --> 0:07:46.000 named Terreek Fancy was an evangelist for the idea that 0:07:46.080 --> 0:07:49.680 capitalism can help save the planet from global warming. Andy 0:07:49.680 --> 0:07:53.600 Brown joins us now he's editorial director at Bloomberg New Economy. 0:07:53.640 --> 0:07:56.760 He joins us on the phone from New York City. Hey, Andy, 0:07:56.840 --> 0:07:59.320 so what happened to to Rieke Fancy. I mean he 0:07:59.400 --> 0:08:01.760 was he was all about s G for years at 0:08:01.800 --> 0:08:05.920 black Rock. Indeed, he was he ran this at black 0:08:06.000 --> 0:08:09.640 Rock for two years. He was, as you say, absolutely 0:08:09.720 --> 0:08:13.880 convinced the capitalism and capitalist markets could save the planet 0:08:13.960 --> 0:08:17.320 from climate change. And after two years of the world's 0:08:17.440 --> 0:08:20.960 largest asset manager, he came to the conclusion that this 0:08:21.080 --> 0:08:26.400 was entirely illusory, and the idea that Wall Street is 0:08:26.480 --> 0:08:31.240 part of a solution um rather than the problem, in 0:08:31.400 --> 0:08:36.640 his view, simply delays real action. And he thinks that 0:08:36.960 --> 0:08:41.080 was absolutely necessary is the government to change the rules 0:08:41.240 --> 0:08:45.240 of the game and to impose a price on carbon emissions, 0:08:45.240 --> 0:08:51.719 thus forcing companies to take responsibility for their own polluting behavior. Well, 0:08:51.760 --> 0:08:54.599 the whole idea is right. I mean, there's got any 0:08:54.640 --> 0:08:57.040 how many conversations do we have and you picked your 0:08:57.080 --> 0:08:58.840 investment from They're happy to come on and talk about 0:08:58.880 --> 0:09:00.920 their e s G funds and e s G space 0:09:01.000 --> 0:09:04.480 and everybody being all in. And what's interesting, though, is 0:09:04.520 --> 0:09:07.520 he points out and as you write, you know, just 0:09:07.559 --> 0:09:09.320 by saying we're not going to invest, let's say in 0:09:09.480 --> 0:09:13.079 oil companies or or what have you, somebody else will 0:09:13.120 --> 0:09:15.720 be very happy to pick up that and put their 0:09:15.720 --> 0:09:20.720 money into that space. Exactly as he writes. He writes 0:09:20.760 --> 0:09:24.600 in a very in a very lively way, and he says, 0:09:24.640 --> 0:09:28.640 you know, losing ten percent of your shareholders is not 0:09:28.760 --> 0:09:32.079 the same as losing ten percent of your customers. You 0:09:32.200 --> 0:09:34.880 lose a customer, you've lost a customer, you lose and 0:09:34.960 --> 0:09:37.640 investor you just go out and find another one. And 0:09:37.720 --> 0:09:40.959 he makes the point actually that you know, these funds 0:09:41.120 --> 0:09:44.480 advertise themselves as E s G funds don't actually put 0:09:44.520 --> 0:09:47.959 anything new into the market. It's not like they invest 0:09:48.040 --> 0:09:53.119 in green projects and initiatives which otherwise wouldn't find funding. Basically, 0:09:53.160 --> 0:09:56.280 they take the universe of available assets and talk them 0:09:56.360 --> 0:09:59.680 up into sort of smaller pieces with a kind of 0:09:59.679 --> 0:10:02.640 a we do. And it's like academic research shows that 0:10:02.720 --> 0:10:05.840 are surprisingly small amount of the waiting off these funds 0:10:05.880 --> 0:10:10.240 is actually um, is actually green um. The rest is 0:10:10.280 --> 0:10:13.680 more or less business as usual with the waiting towards 0:10:13.800 --> 0:10:17.040 large cap companies. In fact, what Terek says, in fact 0:10:17.120 --> 0:10:21.160 is that you know it's designed really for for purposes 0:10:21.160 --> 0:10:25.360 of differency, and so yes, is this new thing. It's 0:10:25.400 --> 0:10:28.560 an exciting new product, look for the planet and good 0:10:28.600 --> 0:10:31.160 for your pocket book, you know, and that in fact, 0:10:31.360 --> 0:10:34.080 you know, he said, contentially, it's just a mechanisms which 0:10:34.520 --> 0:10:37.559 these fund managers got to learn fatter fees. So he 0:10:37.640 --> 0:10:42.320 lays out the problem, but does does he allowed to solution? Andy, Well, 0:10:42.360 --> 0:10:44.920 he doesn't, And I asked him about that. He was 0:10:44.960 --> 0:10:48.840 on my show the other day and I said, look, 0:10:48.880 --> 0:10:50.959 you know you it's just what you've said. I mean, 0:10:51.120 --> 0:10:54.120 you lay out all the problems here, what's the solution then? 0:10:54.440 --> 0:10:59.760 And actually what I also had he runs uh sustainable 0:10:59.760 --> 0:11:06.479 to thing for CalPERS that the Canadian billion dollars under management. 0:11:07.040 --> 0:11:09.000 And she said, look, you know it's not an either 0:11:09.160 --> 0:11:12.800 role that you know, I it's an end and government 0:11:12.920 --> 0:11:15.960 does have a role to play in civil society does, 0:11:16.600 --> 0:11:19.920 and investors do. And she actually gave a concrete example 0:11:20.520 --> 0:11:24.000 of how they combined really can change things. And the 0:11:24.080 --> 0:11:27.760 example she gave with this activist hedge fund Engine number one, 0:11:27.840 --> 0:11:32.960 which replaced three directors of Excellent Mobile is backed by 0:11:33.360 --> 0:11:35.840 backed by CalPERS because I didn't think the Excellent Mobile 0:11:35.840 --> 0:11:38.960 was moving cost enough on a green transition. You know, 0:11:39.000 --> 0:11:41.280 it's interesting because I have a lot of conversations with 0:11:41.320 --> 0:11:44.120 folks to Andy and it's it's it can't be just 0:11:44.320 --> 0:11:46.320 I know net zero is the focus so much for 0:11:46.400 --> 0:11:48.800 a lot of e s G at this point in 0:11:48.960 --> 0:11:51.480 terms of you know, if you create emissions, they're bounced 0:11:51.480 --> 0:11:55.400 by absorbing basically an equivalent amount that's out in the atmosphere. 0:11:55.400 --> 0:11:59.640 But we really have to get to a way where 0:12:00.320 --> 0:12:03.680 we have alternatives that don't create anything bad for the 0:12:03.760 --> 0:12:07.840 atmosphere because it's rapidly going out of control. And unfortunately 0:12:08.040 --> 0:12:09.920 there's not a lot of transparency in this E s 0:12:09.960 --> 0:12:13.480 G space right now, at least not for every every 0:12:13.480 --> 0:12:15.600 part of the letters, if you will. Um some of 0:12:15.600 --> 0:12:17.760 them are easier than others. But we've really got to 0:12:17.760 --> 0:12:22.360 think about it differently, especially when it comes to the environment. Yeah, exactly, 0:12:22.440 --> 0:12:25.120 And that was the point that Anne was making. This 0:12:25.160 --> 0:12:28.560 is the role of the vital role of government regulators 0:12:28.559 --> 0:12:32.600 have to play, which is to force companies to um 0:12:33.320 --> 0:12:38.040 to to to publish their climate risks and opportunities so 0:12:38.080 --> 0:12:41.760 that investors can make real decisions about where they put 0:12:41.800 --> 0:12:44.240 their money. But on the question of divestment, I also 0:12:44.320 --> 0:12:49.120 had on the show no Quinn, the the CEO of HSBC, 0:12:49.440 --> 0:12:51.679 and you know, he made the point, it's a it's 0:12:51.679 --> 0:12:54.720 a very reasonable point that you know, divestment doesn't actually 0:12:54.720 --> 0:12:57.960 do much good. That we're gonna be living with polluting 0:12:58.000 --> 0:13:00.680 industries for a long time, whether we like it or not. 0:13:00.920 --> 0:13:04.280 In the the trick is to work with them on 0:13:04.400 --> 0:13:07.600 solutions rather than to completely cut them off. And actually 0:13:07.640 --> 0:13:10.920 I think pretty much everybody agreed on that point. So Andy, 0:13:11.000 --> 0:13:12.760 just in the last forty five seconds that we have 0:13:13.080 --> 0:13:16.040 left with you. What are takeaways for investors and listeners 0:13:16.080 --> 0:13:20.040 who are listening right now. Well, I think Tarry makes 0:13:20.080 --> 0:13:22.960 a good point. I mean, he's drawn attention to abuses 0:13:23.200 --> 0:13:29.319 in a big, growing financial industry, which and describes as 0:13:29.360 --> 0:13:32.520 being snake oil, sort of pretending that it's the answer 0:13:32.600 --> 0:13:36.600 but not really. Um. But I think probably to Anne's point, um, 0:13:36.760 --> 0:13:40.800 he overstates the case and that solutions in this in 0:13:40.840 --> 0:13:44.679 this area really are going to require a coalition, everybody 0:13:44.920 --> 0:13:49.520 pulling together, um and forcing change on companies from within. 0:13:50.440 --> 0:13:53.320 Smart conversation, and you're you're making me think, Okay, we've 0:13:53.360 --> 0:13:54.640 got to get him on our air too, because we 0:13:54.720 --> 0:13:56.640 talked so much about E S G UM And maybe 0:13:56.679 --> 0:13:58.200 the two of you can join us and we can 0:13:58.200 --> 0:14:02.200 continue this conversation here on a Bloomberg radio. Andy, thank you, 0:14:02.280 --> 0:14:05.640 Andy Brown, editorial director at Bloomberg New Economy, on the 0:14:05.679 --> 0:14:08.600 phone in New York City. We have these conversations. The 0:14:08.600 --> 0:14:12.160 E S G space is exploding. Everybody wants to be involved, 0:14:12.160 --> 0:14:14.880 but um, there's a lot more to be developed there 0:14:14.920 --> 0:14:16.679 there is. And I wonder how backlash will or if 0:14:16.840 --> 0:14:19.160 it will will continue to grow. Yeah, And you know, 0:14:19.200 --> 0:14:21.880 I think many people are calling for more transparency, and 0:14:21.920 --> 0:14:24.680 we've been watching shares of Tesla. They were up more 0:14:24.680 --> 0:14:27.640 than four percent at their highs today, still up in 0:14:27.720 --> 0:14:31.520 what is an overall down market, still up almost one percent, 0:14:32.080 --> 0:14:34.600 and they are higher Following some upbeat news over the weekend, 0:14:34.600 --> 0:14:37.880 Timmy electric car maker reported record third quarter deliveries that 0:14:37.960 --> 0:14:42.160 easily beat the estimates that were out there. Thousand, three 0:14:42.200 --> 0:14:44.800 hundred cars were delivered worldwide in the third quarter, as 0:14:44.880 --> 0:14:47.600 Carol said, a record for the ev maker lad By 0:14:47.640 --> 0:14:50.640 CEO Elon Musk. Joining us now is Dana Hole, technology 0:14:50.640 --> 0:14:53.120 reporter at Bloomberg News. She joins us on the phone 0:14:53.360 --> 0:14:56.760 from our San Francisco bureau. Danna, when these numbers came 0:14:56.800 --> 0:15:01.360 by came out on Saturday, what was your action? Well, 0:15:01.360 --> 0:15:03.440 you know, it's interesting because so much of the game 0:15:03.520 --> 0:15:06.560 is about beating expectations, and so, you know, Bloomberg we 0:15:06.600 --> 0:15:11.440 had estimates of around two thousand. Tesla itself send estimates 0:15:11.520 --> 0:15:17.000 to investors of two one and then they beat quite handily. Um, 0:15:17.120 --> 0:15:19.720 which I actually wasn't surprised about. But I guess it 0:15:19.760 --> 0:15:24.200 makes me question, like how good is everybody's models? But 0:15:24.600 --> 0:15:27.240 I think that I think the reason why it's important 0:15:27.280 --> 0:15:30.240 is because, you know, for so long, one of the 0:15:30.280 --> 0:15:33.120 things that we've heard from you know, the bears or 0:15:33.120 --> 0:15:34.960 the short sellers is that there's got to be a 0:15:35.000 --> 0:15:37.520 demand cliff. I mean, how many people really are there 0:15:37.520 --> 0:15:39.560 in the world who want to buy new Tesla cars? 0:15:39.600 --> 0:15:41.840 And with more electric vehicles coming onto the market, like, 0:15:41.880 --> 0:15:44.480 at some point Tesla is going to hit this wall 0:15:44.520 --> 0:15:46.360 where they're not going to be able to continue to grow. 0:15:46.600 --> 0:15:49.360 And you know, not only did they grow, but they 0:15:49.400 --> 0:15:52.200 grew in the face of this chip shortage and all 0:15:52.240 --> 0:15:55.160 these logistical challenges, and they just did really well. I mean, 0:15:55.160 --> 0:15:57.680 they're really close now to making you know, a quarter 0:15:57.720 --> 0:15:59.680 of a million cars a year, which is just something 0:15:59.680 --> 0:16:02.040 that no one ever thought was possible, you know, a 0:16:02.080 --> 0:16:04.960 decade ago. So it bodes well for them going into 0:16:05.000 --> 0:16:07.360 the into the end of the year. Yeah, exactly. And 0:16:07.400 --> 0:16:09.840 what's interesting another story on the on the Blueberg talks 0:16:09.880 --> 0:16:13.160 about that this time it's hard being short it lately 0:16:13.240 --> 0:16:18.200 because it has had such a rally from it that 0:16:18.240 --> 0:16:19.800 was hit back in March. I think it's up more 0:16:19.840 --> 0:16:23.240 than Danna. You know, this company, you understand it, but 0:16:23.280 --> 0:16:26.000 you also see that it's becoming a marketplace that once 0:16:26.200 --> 0:16:29.080 was kind of all you know, Ellen kind of had 0:16:29.120 --> 0:16:31.680 it all to himself when it came to EV specially 0:16:32.080 --> 0:16:35.760 higher end uh evs. There's more coming into the market. 0:16:35.880 --> 0:16:38.520 Do you think he can maintain or are you hearing 0:16:38.520 --> 0:16:40.600 from folks who walk to this industry that he can 0:16:40.640 --> 0:16:43.680 maintain it? You know, I think what's interesting is I 0:16:43.720 --> 0:16:46.640 would like to kind of challenge everyone to reframe how 0:16:46.680 --> 0:16:49.600 they think about competition in the EV space, because it's 0:16:49.600 --> 0:16:54.000 not really about evis battling each other for this tiny 0:16:54.120 --> 0:16:57.920 slice of market share. It's really about evies growing their 0:16:57.960 --> 0:17:00.960 share of the overall automotive pie and competing with the 0:17:00.960 --> 0:17:03.720 ice vehicle. So I think that you know, you're going 0:17:03.760 --> 0:17:05.959 to see two things happen, Like, yes, there will be 0:17:06.000 --> 0:17:09.520 more electric vehicles to choose from, but the goal really is, 0:17:09.960 --> 0:17:12.520 you know, the next time you buy a car, will 0:17:12.520 --> 0:17:14.480 it be powered by gas or will it be powered 0:17:14.480 --> 0:17:18.160 by an electric vehicle? If it's power and so we're 0:17:18.200 --> 0:17:21.240 just gonna see electric vehicles continue to grow, and so 0:17:21.640 --> 0:17:23.639 they're just gonna be It's like the piece of the 0:17:23.640 --> 0:17:25.159 pie that everyone is fighting over is going to be 0:17:25.160 --> 0:17:26.919 a bigger piece of the pie, if that makes sense. Well, 0:17:26.960 --> 0:17:29.080 it's interesting, right, like how many different automakers do we 0:17:29.119 --> 0:17:32.400 have today, right for combtion combustion engines, Right, so why 0:17:32.400 --> 0:17:34.920 can't we have a bunch of very successful e V 0:17:35.560 --> 0:17:37.959 companies right? As more, because I know my next car 0:17:38.000 --> 0:17:39.440 I'm hoping, Tim, I don't know about you, but I 0:17:39.480 --> 0:17:41.960 hope it's an evy and just kind of planning on it. 0:17:42.000 --> 0:17:43.800 I do too. But here's the question, I don't know 0:17:43.840 --> 0:17:45.960 where I'm gonna Well, I live in New York City, 0:17:46.000 --> 0:17:48.440 so you know, it's hard to keep cars somewhere. Yeah, 0:17:48.440 --> 0:17:49.960 where do I plug it in? And that's that's the question. 0:17:50.400 --> 0:17:52.879 After we're not going to be allowed to buy a 0:17:52.920 --> 0:17:55.840 gas powered car anyway, right, New York has joined California 0:17:55.840 --> 0:17:57.800 in banning the sale of the car. So it's it's 0:17:57.880 --> 0:17:59.359 kind of time to think ahead, like what is your 0:17:59.400 --> 0:18:02.119 next car geting be? What kind of infrastructure do you 0:18:02.160 --> 0:18:05.520 need to support it? Um so, so, so I think that, 0:18:05.600 --> 0:18:07.320 I mean, I think and I think that Tesla does 0:18:07.359 --> 0:18:10.000 have first mover advantage, and you know, China is a 0:18:10.040 --> 0:18:13.040 big part of their growth, and so you know, it's 0:18:13.080 --> 0:18:14.560 hard for those of those who live in the United 0:18:14.560 --> 0:18:16.480 States to kind of always remember this, but they are 0:18:16.480 --> 0:18:18.960 now producing a ton of Model threes and wise out 0:18:18.960 --> 0:18:22.560 of that factory in Shanghai, both for Chinese consumers but 0:18:22.600 --> 0:18:25.399 also for export to Europe. And we just have to 0:18:25.400 --> 0:18:28.400 remember that, like the big battle over EVS is, it's 0:18:28.400 --> 0:18:30.680 really happening abroad as well as as well as here. 0:18:31.119 --> 0:18:33.720 I wonder what it's going to take though, to get 0:18:33.720 --> 0:18:35.760 it to a point where the vast were not even 0:18:35.800 --> 0:18:38.560 the vast majority, but the majority of cars that are purchased, 0:18:38.560 --> 0:18:41.199 the majority of new cars purchased our electric vehicles and 0:18:41.240 --> 0:18:44.879 not ice vehicles. Yeah, I think a lot of it 0:18:44.920 --> 0:18:47.720 really is just a consumer had it. I mean, I 0:18:47.800 --> 0:18:49.879 was thinking about this. You know, I have not flown 0:18:49.960 --> 0:18:52.119 very much at all recently, but I did fly to 0:18:52.119 --> 0:18:54.479 the East Coast over the summer to visit friends and family, 0:18:54.640 --> 0:18:57.720 and like, at the airport, like I wanted the most 0:18:57.760 --> 0:18:59.959 fuel efficient car possible, and the only thing that they 0:19:00.080 --> 0:19:02.080 had was a Toyota Prius, which is what I got. 0:19:02.080 --> 0:19:03.760 But like, there was no way for me to rent 0:19:03.800 --> 0:19:07.520 a Model three or a Chevy Bolt or a Nissan 0:19:07.640 --> 0:19:09.639 Leaf at the airport. And if I could have, like 0:19:09.680 --> 0:19:11.040 that would have been a really cool way for me 0:19:11.080 --> 0:19:14.840 to like experience the car before actually considering whether to 0:19:14.840 --> 0:19:17.880 own one. But it's still just not part of like 0:19:18.080 --> 0:19:20.639 our culture, and people are just used to going to 0:19:20.680 --> 0:19:24.399 gas stations and so making the leap to electric cars 0:19:24.440 --> 0:19:26.840 like it's just going to take a lot of consumer education. 0:19:26.880 --> 0:19:29.320 And that's why Tesla has been successful because so many 0:19:29.359 --> 0:19:33.480 owners basically serve as the facto brand ambassadors. Like, you know, 0:19:33.680 --> 0:19:37.000 someone gets a car, they invite their brother or their 0:19:37.040 --> 0:19:39.640 sister or their mom to take a ride, and then 0:19:39.680 --> 0:19:41.760 that's another person it's like, oh, wow, this is actually 0:19:41.800 --> 0:19:43.760 really cool, and so you know, it's all like word 0:19:43.760 --> 0:19:46.280 of mouth and the experience of having your button the 0:19:46.359 --> 0:19:48.880 seed and like going for a drive and realizing that 0:19:49.000 --> 0:19:51.800 you know, charging is not that big a deal and um, 0:19:51.840 --> 0:19:53.199 but you know you just need to do that on 0:19:53.280 --> 0:19:56.080 a much wider basis that we have now. I will say, 0:19:56.119 --> 0:19:58.560 I'm seeing a lot more cars in and around the 0:19:58.560 --> 0:20:00.600 New York metro area, and I agree with you that 0:20:00.640 --> 0:20:03.680 it used to be like the outlier. You'd meet somebody like, oh, 0:20:03.720 --> 0:20:06.320 what's it like, And now it's like my friends, Oh yeah, 0:20:06.359 --> 0:20:08.639 we have, and my husband's got one too, and everybody's 0:20:08.680 --> 0:20:11.280 kind of all buy in. Jill Webber just talking about 0:20:12.440 --> 0:20:14.359 our friend. Our friend just got one too. But it's 0:20:14.359 --> 0:20:16.520 like you have to live in the suburbs or I mean, 0:20:16.560 --> 0:20:19.520 look that's yeah to plug in, or you know, pay 0:20:19.560 --> 0:20:21.119 a lot of money for New York City garage in 0:20:21.200 --> 0:20:23.600 order to do that. Yeah, exactly, all right, they're working 0:20:23.600 --> 0:20:25.840 it out. Danni Hall always great when it comes to 0:20:25.880 --> 0:20:28.639 all things Testla Bloomberg Technology reporter, joining us from our 0:20:28.680 --> 0:20:31.960 San Francisco burope. You know Carol, the classic children's book, 0:20:32.160 --> 0:20:34.840 No Good, Very Bad day. Okay, Well, it's one of 0:20:34.880 --> 0:20:37.199 those days for Facebook. I don't know if people have 0:20:37.400 --> 0:20:39.520 logged into Facebook or attempted to use any of the 0:20:39.560 --> 0:20:43.399 Facebook family of services today, including What's App, Instagram, and 0:20:43.480 --> 0:20:46.560 of course Facebook Messenger, but there have been challenges as 0:20:46.600 --> 0:20:49.320 those have been offline for much of the day today, 0:20:49.720 --> 0:20:52.399 not to mention the other challenge that Facebook is dealing 0:20:52.400 --> 0:20:55.880 with today, cleaning up the mess thanks to a whistleblower 0:20:55.920 --> 0:20:58.680 who appeared last night on sixty Minutes and turned out 0:20:58.720 --> 0:21:01.440 she had been for months providing not just lawmakers but 0:21:01.480 --> 0:21:04.560 also the Wall Street Journal with internal documents about the 0:21:04.600 --> 0:21:09.680 way that Facebook balances profits and balances moderating content lots 0:21:09.720 --> 0:21:12.600 and lots of internal documents. Let's get the latest on 0:21:12.640 --> 0:21:15.680 the company, the stock, the concerns. Kurt Wagner is Bloomberg 0:21:15.720 --> 0:21:17.520 News tech reporter. He joins us on the phone in 0:21:17.520 --> 0:21:21.960 San Francisco. Kirk Uh, Kurt, it's nice to have you here. Um. 0:21:22.000 --> 0:21:24.840 The selling that we're seeing in Facebook shares. Mind you, 0:21:24.960 --> 0:21:27.359 it's a risk off trade and big tech in particular 0:21:28.080 --> 0:21:32.040 are really feeling the most pain today. But the trade 0:21:32.080 --> 0:21:33.760 has to do. I would assume with some of the 0:21:33.760 --> 0:21:37.440