1 00:00:01,720 --> 00:00:06,440 Speaker 1: Now from our nation's capital. This is Bloomberg Sound On. 2 00:00:07,520 --> 00:00:10,400 Speaker 1: I'm a little bit unimpressed of the discipline and the 3 00:00:10,440 --> 00:00:13,760 Speaker 1: training level of the Russian forces. As bad and as 4 00:00:13,880 --> 00:00:16,560 Speaker 1: terrific as it is, we want to make sure that 5 00:00:16,640 --> 00:00:20,720 Speaker 1: we do not see an escalation. Bloomberg sound On Politics, 6 00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:24,560 Speaker 1: Policy and perspective from DC's top name. I sent to 7 00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:27,600 Speaker 1: the commodity first who remained very high, elevated certainly over 8 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:29,280 Speaker 1: the next few months, probably first after the year. You 9 00:00:29,400 --> 00:00:32,840 Speaker 1: Republicans want to give Democrat day victory on getting public 10 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:36,320 Speaker 1: China on a political basist, The answer is no. Bloomberg 11 00:00:36,479 --> 00:00:42,120 Speaker 1: Sound On with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. President Biden 12 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:46,560 Speaker 1: arrives in Russell's with more sanctions in the pipeline, Judge 13 00:00:46,600 --> 00:00:50,959 Speaker 1: Kaitanji Brown Jackson answering questions for another day, and Madeleine 14 00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:54,480 Speaker 1: Albright has died. Welcome to the fastest hour in politics. 15 00:00:54,480 --> 00:00:57,720 Speaker 1: We'll be joined today by Thomas Pickering, former ambassador to 16 00:00:57,760 --> 00:01:00,200 Speaker 1: the U N and to Russia, among other country, his 17 00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:03,920 Speaker 1: former colleague of Secretary Albright. The US is planning to 18 00:01:03,960 --> 00:01:07,800 Speaker 1: target political figures now reportedly in Russia with new sanctions. 19 00:01:08,360 --> 00:01:11,880 Speaker 1: We'll talk about it with Figar Shamali Greenwich, Media Strategy's 20 00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:15,920 Speaker 1: former policy advisor and the Treasury Sanctions Division, and has 21 00:01:15,959 --> 00:01:19,160 Speaker 1: an enormous amount of knowledge and experience in this area. 22 00:01:19,240 --> 00:01:22,720 Speaker 1: We get analysis today from the signature panel Bloomberg Politics 23 00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:25,480 Speaker 1: contributors Jeanie Chanzano and Rick Davis, or with us for 24 00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:27,760 Speaker 1: the hour, Around the world and back again. The news 25 00:01:27,800 --> 00:01:30,520 Speaker 1: broke just a few hours ago. Madeline Albright has died. 26 00:01:31,280 --> 00:01:33,920 Speaker 1: The former Ambassador to the U N the former Secretary 27 00:01:33,920 --> 00:01:36,880 Speaker 1: of State, first woman to hold that job, was eight four. 28 00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:41,560 Speaker 1: Cancer was the cause, according to her family. Albright was 29 00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:44,480 Speaker 1: of course central to American foreign policy in the wake 30 00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:46,640 Speaker 1: of the Cold War, and was the first Secretary of 31 00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:51,640 Speaker 1: State to visit North Korea. Autois sound of her first 32 00:01:51,680 --> 00:01:58,920 Speaker 1: meeting with Kim Jong Eel October two thousand, she said 33 00:01:58,960 --> 00:02:01,880 Speaker 1: holding talks with North a Rea should not be considered appeasement. 34 00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:06,280 Speaker 1: The news of her death broke, at least publicly, right 35 00:02:06,320 --> 00:02:10,560 Speaker 1: in the middle of today's State Department briefing, with spokesman 36 00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:17,760 Speaker 1: Ned Price at the podium. Has died. Um, I expect 37 00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:20,600 Speaker 1: you'll you'll hear more from the Secretary later today. Of course, 38 00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:25,400 Speaker 1: the Secretary and the President are are aboard Air Force one, UM, 39 00:02:25,440 --> 00:02:30,119 Speaker 1: but they have been apprized of this. I can say 40 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:37,720 Speaker 1: that the impact that Secretary Albright, Professor Albright, Dr Albright, 41 00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:41,000 Speaker 1: She's known as many titles around here, in in in 42 00:02:41,160 --> 00:02:44,280 Speaker 1: Washington and in around the world. The impact that she 43 00:02:44,360 --> 00:02:48,640 Speaker 1: has had on this building is felt, uh every single 44 00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:52,120 Speaker 1: day and just about every single corridor. Went on to 45 00:02:52,160 --> 00:02:55,119 Speaker 1: say that Secretary of State Anthony B. Lincoln considers Albright 46 00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:59,480 Speaker 1: a mentor. Since then, since that briefing, President Biden and 47 00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:05,560 Speaker 1: Secretary B. Lincoln have arrived in Brussels. This is the 48 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:08,800 Speaker 1: sound of Air Force one taxing to a stop in 49 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:11,560 Speaker 1: the last hour as the President prepares for a series 50 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:15,200 Speaker 1: of meetings with our NATO allies over the next couple 51 00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:18,520 Speaker 1: of days. He will then move on to Poland. That 52 00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:21,359 Speaker 1: is where we begin with Thomas Pickering, former Ambassador to 53 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:24,240 Speaker 1: the U n and to Russia, among other countries. He 54 00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:27,680 Speaker 1: carries the title of career Ambassador, the highest in the 55 00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:31,600 Speaker 1: US Foreign service, and we're always lucky to have the 56 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:36,120 Speaker 1: ambassador's views. Ambassador. The timing of Secretary Albright's death is remarkable, 57 00:03:36,760 --> 00:03:40,200 Speaker 1: considering her focus her history with Eastern Europe. Just as 58 00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:43,920 Speaker 1: the President is arriving with the war in Ukraine under way. 59 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:47,120 Speaker 1: What are your thoughts? Well, it reminds us of many things. 60 00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:50,160 Speaker 1: I had the honor and the pleasure of working with 61 00:03:50,160 --> 00:03:53,160 Speaker 1: her as her second deputy in the State Department as 62 00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:57,360 Speaker 1: Under Secretary, and she was forthright, She was always strong, 63 00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:01,600 Speaker 1: She had very firm views, particular on Eastern Europe. She 64 00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:05,320 Speaker 1: had little love, I would say, for Russia, and that 65 00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:10,240 Speaker 1: skepticism and indeed suspicion about Russia has proven to me 66 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:13,120 Speaker 1: more true than I think any of us had reason 67 00:04:13,200 --> 00:04:15,920 Speaker 1: to believe when I worked for her, and it proves 68 00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:18,800 Speaker 1: in many ways that she had a vision that went 69 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:22,440 Speaker 1: beyond the years, and in many cases was formed and 70 00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:28,080 Speaker 1: shaped by the hard and very difficult circumstances of life 71 00:04:28,480 --> 00:04:34,919 Speaker 1: twice a refugee from Czechoslovakia, her father a servant of Czechoslovakia, 72 00:04:35,480 --> 00:04:39,479 Speaker 1: and then later a great teacher of diplomacy in the 73 00:04:39,560 --> 00:04:43,760 Speaker 1: United States. University of Denver named its School of Foreign 74 00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:48,479 Speaker 1: Affairs for her father, And in many ways Mrs Albright 75 00:04:49,560 --> 00:04:54,680 Speaker 1: was someone who I think was perhaps underestimated in her 76 00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:59,360 Speaker 1: service as Secretary of State for all that she achieved 77 00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:02,320 Speaker 1: and is due at the moment of her death with 78 00:05:02,560 --> 00:05:06,880 Speaker 1: a another review of how and in what way she 79 00:05:07,120 --> 00:05:11,440 Speaker 1: strongly supported this country its interests, a country that she 80 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:17,400 Speaker 1: loved and cared for in many senses that she could 81 00:05:17,440 --> 00:05:20,640 Speaker 1: to make prosper She wrote her not ed ambassador in 82 00:05:20,680 --> 00:05:24,520 Speaker 1: The New York Times shortly before she died, talking about 83 00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:31,960 Speaker 1: this conflicts with Ukraine, Russia, NATO, suggesting revisionist history on 84 00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:34,000 Speaker 1: the part of Vladimir Putin, and said he would be 85 00:05:34,040 --> 00:05:36,679 Speaker 1: making a grave mistake if he conducted a full invasion 86 00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:40,719 Speaker 1: of Ukraine. She's turning out to be right already. She 87 00:05:40,839 --> 00:05:44,000 Speaker 1: certainly is in the mistake, I believe is now being 88 00:05:44,080 --> 00:05:47,760 Speaker 1: upheld by the notion that the Iranians have held out 89 00:05:48,279 --> 00:05:52,800 Speaker 1: weeks longer than most people believed they could, and their 90 00:05:52,839 --> 00:05:58,640 Speaker 1: determination and commitment matches hers in many ways in defending 91 00:05:58,680 --> 00:06:01,680 Speaker 1: what she believed in, as they believe in their country 92 00:06:01,839 --> 00:06:05,200 Speaker 1: and the absolute need to defend it. And it reminded 93 00:06:05,279 --> 00:06:08,960 Speaker 1: me in many ways of the very tough war I 94 00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:13,520 Speaker 1: witnessed as a young boy, when before the Second World 95 00:06:13,520 --> 00:06:18,520 Speaker 1: War unrolled in its full panoply, Finland defended itself against 96 00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:22,760 Speaker 1: an unprovoked attack by the Russians and has over the 97 00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:28,480 Speaker 1: years managed to in many different ways become a major 98 00:06:28,640 --> 00:06:32,800 Speaker 1: player and partner on the world scene. Well, give us 99 00:06:32,839 --> 00:06:35,599 Speaker 1: a sense of your thoughts. Now the President has touched down, 100 00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:41,279 Speaker 1: we have an emergency session, an emergency meeting with NATO tomorrow. 101 00:06:41,480 --> 00:06:44,240 Speaker 1: The President will also be meeting in Warsaw with the 102 00:06:44,279 --> 00:06:47,760 Speaker 1: President of Poland this week. What is his job on 103 00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:50,320 Speaker 1: this trip. Is it simply showing up? Is it the 104 00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:53,440 Speaker 1: photo op, Ambassador, the presence of the United States, the 105 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:57,200 Speaker 1: projection of power or will work be had on this 106 00:06:58,279 --> 00:07:01,520 Speaker 1: That makes a difference. And it is always important to 107 00:07:01,680 --> 00:07:05,400 Speaker 1: our NATO allies that we are seen in the midst 108 00:07:05,440 --> 00:07:11,520 Speaker 1: of them, listening as well as talking and forging the 109 00:07:11,680 --> 00:07:15,600 Speaker 1: strength of that alliance on the anvil of adversity, if 110 00:07:15,640 --> 00:07:18,960 Speaker 1: I could call it that, because it is adversity in 111 00:07:18,960 --> 00:07:23,680 Speaker 1: this attack by President Putin against Ukraine that has brought 112 00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:27,760 Speaker 1: the alliance together in ways that we're not foreseen and 113 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:32,240 Speaker 1: we're unpredictable, and which in many ways have doubled against 114 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:36,800 Speaker 1: President Putin the effort that he thought he was making 115 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:41,720 Speaker 1: to split the alliance, castigated, drive it into a corner, 116 00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:45,080 Speaker 1: and seek to fracture it into small pieces. What's the 117 00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:48,640 Speaker 1: Putin response here, Ambassador I'm assuming there's going to be one. 118 00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:50,600 Speaker 1: He seems to think every time the wind blows that 119 00:07:50,680 --> 00:07:53,880 Speaker 1: this is an escalation by the US. This is this 120 00:07:53,960 --> 00:07:56,720 Speaker 1: is going to mean something to Vladimir Putin when Joe 121 00:07:56,760 --> 00:08:00,280 Speaker 1: Biden shows up in Poland to be very interesting because 122 00:08:00,760 --> 00:08:03,920 Speaker 1: President Biden is going to have to take steps to 123 00:08:04,120 --> 00:08:08,080 Speaker 1: tighten up how the Alliance looks at this. More assistance 124 00:08:08,120 --> 00:08:15,360 Speaker 1: to Ukraine UH, tighter economic sanctions, greater efforts to supply 125 00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:20,760 Speaker 1: other than Russian oil and gas to Europeans, and an 126 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:24,760 Speaker 1: effort to drive down those kinds of commodity prices, as 127 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:29,760 Speaker 1: well as seek to further isolate President Putin. Putin is 128 00:08:29,880 --> 00:08:34,559 Speaker 1: likely to double down in where he is now, which 129 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:38,960 Speaker 1: is what I would call the city destruction phase of 130 00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:42,880 Speaker 1: the Russian invasion, something that was very much the pattern 131 00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:47,120 Speaker 1: in the war, the two wars against Czechnia, one of 132 00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:49,880 Speaker 1: which occurred when I served in Russia and where we 133 00:08:49,960 --> 00:08:55,680 Speaker 1: watched him create devastation UH in the name of victory UH. 134 00:08:55,679 --> 00:08:58,600 Speaker 1: And I think he lost a great deal there, but 135 00:08:58,800 --> 00:09:02,920 Speaker 1: is losing even more are now. And in this regard, 136 00:09:03,520 --> 00:09:07,480 Speaker 1: while it is too early, I think to raise victory 137 00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:12,560 Speaker 1: flags to have ceremonies on aircraft carriers or to do 138 00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:15,840 Speaker 1: things of that sort. It is not too early to 139 00:09:15,920 --> 00:09:21,440 Speaker 1: recognize that on the basis of the fundamental commitment of 140 00:09:21,520 --> 00:09:25,680 Speaker 1: the Ukrainian people to their own defense, they're owed by 141 00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:29,160 Speaker 1: the rest of the world community as much help as 142 00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:33,560 Speaker 1: we can possibly give them. Thomas Pickering, former Ambassador to 143 00:09:33,559 --> 00:09:37,880 Speaker 1: the United Nations, Ambassador to Russia, India, Israel, Nigeria, Jordan's 144 00:09:37,880 --> 00:09:42,840 Speaker 1: and El Salvador. It is quite a career and a legacy. 145 00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:49,200 Speaker 1: We appreciate your insights today and our condolences, Ambassador the 146 00:09:49,280 --> 00:09:52,320 Speaker 1: loss of Madeline Albright. We heard from Jake Sullivan, by 147 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:54,679 Speaker 1: the way, brief reporters on Air Force one poured cold 148 00:09:54,679 --> 00:09:57,680 Speaker 1: water and reports from Russia that talks with Ukraine or 149 00:09:57,800 --> 00:10:02,280 Speaker 1: somehow bearing fruits reports of progress. He said, he takes 150 00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:06,360 Speaker 1: it with a large grain of salt. Will assemble the 151 00:10:06,360 --> 00:10:09,480 Speaker 1: panel next. Genie Chanzano and Rick Davis are with us 152 00:10:09,480 --> 00:10:13,160 Speaker 1: our signature panel for the Wednesday edition of Sound On. 153 00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:16,080 Speaker 1: We'll also get markets for you, check traffic to help 154 00:10:16,080 --> 00:10:19,200 Speaker 1: you get home and continue the fastest hour in politics. 155 00:10:20,120 --> 00:10:23,560 Speaker 1: We're just getting started. I'm Joe Matthew in Washington. This 156 00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:33,920 Speaker 1: is Bloomberg. This is Bloomberg, So No with Joe Matthew 157 00:10:34,400 --> 00:10:39,440 Speaker 1: on Bloomberg Radio. As we assemble the panel, Rick and 158 00:10:39,520 --> 00:10:41,640 Speaker 1: Genie are with us, and I know they have thoughts 159 00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:45,960 Speaker 1: on the death of Madeline Albright, the legacy of the 160 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:49,000 Speaker 1: first woman to be Secretary of State as we enter 161 00:10:49,120 --> 00:10:52,200 Speaker 1: one of the most important couple of days here for 162 00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:56,440 Speaker 1: the history of American diplomacy and foreign policy. Thanks for 163 00:10:56,520 --> 00:10:59,120 Speaker 1: joining us on the fastest hour in politics. I'm Joe 164 00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:03,200 Speaker 1: Matthew in Washington. Jennie. It's a it's a pretty big deal. 165 00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:05,160 Speaker 1: This headline hit as you might have heard a little 166 00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:07,679 Speaker 1: bit earlier, right in the middle of the State Department briefing, 167 00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:10,840 Speaker 1: just as Joe Biden was crossing the ocean on his 168 00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:15,280 Speaker 1: way to Brussels for the NATO sessions that will begin tomorrow. 169 00:11:15,720 --> 00:11:18,439 Speaker 1: The legacy of Madeline Albright is the backdrop for all 170 00:11:18,480 --> 00:11:21,760 Speaker 1: of this. Yeah, and you know I was rereading the 171 00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:24,000 Speaker 1: op ed that you mentioned at the top public just 172 00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:26,760 Speaker 1: a month ago today, I believe and you know what 173 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:30,400 Speaker 1: is so fascinating and keeping with with who she was 174 00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:33,360 Speaker 1: and her amazing legacy, as the ambassador was just saying, 175 00:11:33,920 --> 00:11:38,120 Speaker 1: is she basically predicts exactly what has happened now. She 176 00:11:38,240 --> 00:11:43,480 Speaker 1: says that this action by Pooin will cripple them, isolate them, 177 00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:47,160 Speaker 1: This will make them strategically vulnerable, and it will create 178 00:11:47,160 --> 00:11:50,000 Speaker 1: a more united Western alliance. And as you mentioned here, 179 00:11:50,040 --> 00:11:53,040 Speaker 1: we have the President of the United States going right 180 00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:56,160 Speaker 1: into Brussels meeting with these allies. This is exactly what 181 00:11:56,240 --> 00:11:58,880 Speaker 1: she predicted what happened. NATO would not have been this 182 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:02,360 Speaker 1: united in the appsent. So this attack and you know 183 00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:05,079 Speaker 1: this is you know something that when you read her 184 00:12:05,240 --> 00:12:08,000 Speaker 1: reread her outp ed, it is striking how on point 185 00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:10,360 Speaker 1: it is. She had Vladimir Putin down to it. T 186 00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:13,720 Speaker 1: Rick Davis, Yeah, she is. She's figured him out a 187 00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:15,480 Speaker 1: long time ago. You know, she was an old friend 188 00:12:15,960 --> 00:12:19,640 Speaker 1: of John McCain's. She chaired the National Democratic Institute and 189 00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:24,000 Speaker 1: John the i r I, and they bonded in when 190 00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:28,120 Speaker 1: they went to Czechoslovakia as observers of very and fair 191 00:12:28,120 --> 00:12:31,720 Speaker 1: election and she took him to her hometown and they 192 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:33,920 Speaker 1: was really a special bond between the two of them, 193 00:12:33,920 --> 00:12:36,440 Speaker 1: and they were fighting for democracy all around the world 194 00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:41,720 Speaker 1: their entire careers and could not be h any better friends. 195 00:12:41,880 --> 00:12:45,040 Speaker 1: And I know that she's probably now together with him 196 00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:49,559 Speaker 1: talking about Vladimir Putin UH and seeing KGB in his eyes, 197 00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:53,400 Speaker 1: and they're saying, boy Rick Davis is still telling the 198 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:56,480 Speaker 1: story down below, what do you make of the news? 199 00:12:56,600 --> 00:12:59,520 Speaker 1: As the president is landing here? While they were in 200 00:12:59,559 --> 00:13:03,760 Speaker 1: the air, Genie the Secretary of State with the President, 201 00:13:03,800 --> 00:13:05,800 Speaker 1: we heard from Jake Sullivan went to the back of 202 00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:09,040 Speaker 1: the plane UH to speak with reporters here. The plan 203 00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:13,120 Speaker 1: the US will sanction political figures. They're actually going after 204 00:13:13,800 --> 00:13:17,520 Speaker 1: lawmakers in Russia. He said, the United States will announce 205 00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:21,520 Speaker 1: a package of sanctions designation tomorrow that relate both to 206 00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:25,560 Speaker 1: political figures oligarchs, so individual designations as well as entities 207 00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:29,080 Speaker 1: that will be released. Is this the kind of additional 208 00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:33,360 Speaker 1: sanctions that you want to see? It absolutely is. And 209 00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:35,040 Speaker 1: and you know, one of the things that just to 210 00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:36,920 Speaker 1: go back to Alan, all right, she also says in 211 00:13:36,960 --> 00:13:39,080 Speaker 1: that oup ed and she said when she spoke about 212 00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:42,680 Speaker 1: this was it was going to take that crack internally 213 00:13:42,760 --> 00:13:45,960 Speaker 1: in the Kremlin and in Russia to push back on 214 00:13:46,040 --> 00:13:48,640 Speaker 1: Vladimir Putin. And of course that's what these kinds of 215 00:13:48,640 --> 00:13:51,520 Speaker 1: sanctions on the oligarchs, on the lawmakers do. And of 216 00:13:51,559 --> 00:13:55,720 Speaker 1: course they're also talking about addressing the secondary sanctions, any 217 00:13:55,800 --> 00:13:59,680 Speaker 1: attempt to evade those sanctions. All of those are important steps, 218 00:13:59,679 --> 00:14:02,480 Speaker 1: and I would not you also had NATO secretary say 219 00:14:02,520 --> 00:14:05,280 Speaker 1: that that they believe there may be a call on 220 00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:08,680 Speaker 1: China to live up to its responsibilities as a member 221 00:14:08,679 --> 00:14:12,040 Speaker 1: of the u N and to call out Russia condemned 222 00:14:12,080 --> 00:14:14,880 Speaker 1: this invasion. And that is going to be critical because 223 00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:17,880 Speaker 1: that is a relationship that Putin is depending on to 224 00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:20,080 Speaker 1: see him through this. Rick. This is like if if 225 00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:23,560 Speaker 1: sanctions were placed against members of the House of Representatives, right, 226 00:14:23,640 --> 00:14:27,080 Speaker 1: I mean, are these political figures going to do anything 227 00:14:27,120 --> 00:14:30,160 Speaker 1: about it? Does this increase pressure on Vladimir Putin? Yeah? 228 00:14:30,160 --> 00:14:32,760 Speaker 1: I mean could you imagine I mean, the Speaker of 229 00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:36,160 Speaker 1: the House and getting sanctions from a former foreign government 230 00:14:36,160 --> 00:14:38,680 Speaker 1: and her political action committee. I mean, that would really 231 00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:42,040 Speaker 1: be interesting. Look the dooma they're there. Lower House is 232 00:14:42,080 --> 00:14:46,120 Speaker 1: full of Putin cronies. They're they're kleptocrats, they steal from 233 00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:48,720 Speaker 1: the state. They're all part of the same kind of 234 00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:53,200 Speaker 1: club that robs the state of resources in order ingratiate themselves. 235 00:14:53,560 --> 00:14:56,000 Speaker 1: And uh, and I think this is a great way 236 00:14:56,040 --> 00:14:58,800 Speaker 1: for this administration to shine a light on it uh 237 00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:01,320 Speaker 1: and uh and to try and stir some trouble up 238 00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:04,840 Speaker 1: in the Douma. We all remember many years ago the 239 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:07,480 Speaker 1: attack on the Dooma. I mean, Russia wasn't always such 240 00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:10,280 Speaker 1: a peaceful place, right and uh and I think we 241 00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:12,440 Speaker 1: would love to see something like that by the people 242 00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:16,320 Speaker 1: of of of Moscow. Starting to sound like Lindsay Graham 243 00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:19,600 Speaker 1: here a little bit. Uh. The Secretary of State speaking 244 00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:23,800 Speaker 1: about war crimes today, Jeannie uh says that Russian forces 245 00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:27,880 Speaker 1: have destroyed apartment building, schools, hospitals, critical infrastructure, civilian vehicles, 246 00:15:27,920 --> 00:15:32,480 Speaker 1: shopping centers, ambulances, thousands of innocent civilians killed or wounded. 247 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:37,040 Speaker 1: That does equal war crimes, right? How do you negotiate 248 00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:40,720 Speaker 1: in the Ukraine is talking with the Ukrainian officials are 249 00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:43,560 Speaker 1: talking with Russian officials in the hopes of getting some 250 00:15:43,640 --> 00:15:45,320 Speaker 1: kind of a ceasefire. How do you negotiate with a 251 00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:48,080 Speaker 1: war criminal? Well, this is the problem, and this is 252 00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:51,080 Speaker 1: why I was surprised the other day when Joe Biden 253 00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:54,280 Speaker 1: turned around in response to a reporter's question and said that, 254 00:15:54,320 --> 00:15:56,560 Speaker 1: you know, Vladimir Putin is a war criminal. Now you 255 00:15:56,600 --> 00:15:59,880 Speaker 1: have this statement today, and of course the actions come 256 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:02,960 Speaker 1: institute the very the very act of a war criminal 257 00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:05,680 Speaker 1: and war crimes, there's no question of that. The problem 258 00:16:05,720 --> 00:16:07,560 Speaker 1: for the United States as we are not going to 259 00:16:07,640 --> 00:16:10,280 Speaker 1: be involved in adjudicating that at any point in the 260 00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:13,880 Speaker 1: future directly. And it also makes it very, very difficult 261 00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:16,720 Speaker 1: to get any off ramp for the Ukraine and particularly 262 00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:21,520 Speaker 1: for Putin or let Russia or Vladimir Putin back into 263 00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:24,120 Speaker 1: the world, if that is what is to happen. And 264 00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:26,520 Speaker 1: so you know that is part of the problem here 265 00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:29,520 Speaker 1: with these designations. Rick and Jeannie are with us for 266 00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:33,040 Speaker 1: the hour. As we remember Madeline Albright today, we remember 267 00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:36,359 Speaker 1: the pins, of course write the brooches, and she explained 268 00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:40,840 Speaker 1: what inspired them in a Ted talk. My instructions were, well, 269 00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:44,360 Speaker 1: things about Saddam Hussein constantly, which he deserved. He had 270 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:47,280 Speaker 1: invaded another country. And so all of a sudden a 271 00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:50,160 Speaker 1: poem appeared in the papers in Baghdad comparing me to 272 00:16:50,280 --> 00:16:54,400 Speaker 1: many things, but among them an unparalleled serpent. And so 273 00:16:54,520 --> 00:16:57,200 Speaker 1: I happen to have a snake pin. So I wore 274 00:16:57,240 --> 00:17:00,680 Speaker 1: it when we talked about iraq uh and when I 275 00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:03,240 Speaker 1: went out to meet the press, they zeroednswered, why are 276 00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:05,720 Speaker 1: wearing that snake pit? I said, Cassette. I'm just saying, 277 00:17:05,760 --> 00:17:08,479 Speaker 1: compared me to an unparalleled serpent. And then I thought, well, 278 00:17:08,520 --> 00:17:11,600 Speaker 1: this is fun. So I went out and I bought 279 00:17:11,720 --> 00:17:14,280 Speaker 1: a lot of pins that would, in fact reflect what 280 00:17:14,359 --> 00:17:16,480 Speaker 1: I thought we were going to do on any given day. 281 00:17:16,600 --> 00:17:20,280 Speaker 1: So that's how it all starts. Stay with us. This 282 00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:28,800 Speaker 1: is Bloomberg broadcasting live from our nation's capital, Bloomberg to 283 00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:33,119 Speaker 1: New York, Bloomberg eleven Frio to Boston, Bloomberg one oh 284 00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:36,919 Speaker 1: six one to San Francisco, Bloomberg nine sixty to the 285 00:17:36,960 --> 00:17:40,919 Speaker 1: Country Serious x M General one nine and around the globe, 286 00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:44,840 Speaker 1: the Bloomberg Business app and Bloomberg Radio dot Com. This 287 00:17:45,240 --> 00:17:50,560 Speaker 1: is Bloomberg Sound On with Joe Matthew. The mobile White 288 00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:54,879 Speaker 1: House has landed in Europe. The president's national security advisor 289 00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:59,920 Speaker 1: says another round of sanctions will be announced tomorrow as 290 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:04,399 Speaker 1: the President gets into negotiations and talks with our NATO 291 00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:07,920 Speaker 1: allies about the next steps for Russia and Ukraine. We'll 292 00:18:07,960 --> 00:18:11,719 Speaker 1: talk about it next with Garciamali of Greenwich Media Strategies. 293 00:18:12,080 --> 00:18:16,520 Speaker 1: Former senior policy advisor in the Treasury Sanctions Division, Jake Sullivan, 294 00:18:16,560 --> 00:18:19,040 Speaker 1: went to the back of the plane today to brief 295 00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:22,320 Speaker 1: reporters flying on Air Force one. They crossed the ocean today, 296 00:18:22,520 --> 00:18:26,640 Speaker 1: Lennon and Brussels a short time ago, and Jake Sullivan 297 00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:29,959 Speaker 1: generating the headline on the terminal US to impose new 298 00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:33,960 Speaker 1: sanctions on political figures and oligarchs. Here he is mask 299 00:18:34,119 --> 00:18:38,320 Speaker 1: on in flight G seven. Leaders tomorrow will agree on 300 00:18:38,520 --> 00:18:44,399 Speaker 1: an initiative to coordinate on sanctions enforcement so that Russian 301 00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:47,119 Speaker 1: efforts to evade the sanctions or other country's effort to 302 00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:50,679 Speaker 1: help Russia evade the sanctions can be dealt with effectively 303 00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:53,080 Speaker 1: and in a coordinated fashion. All right, So you've got 304 00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:55,120 Speaker 1: a heads up on a major story that we're gonna 305 00:18:55,119 --> 00:18:59,440 Speaker 1: be talking about tomorrow as the US looks for ways 306 00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:04,760 Speaker 1: to Increa Reese liquid natural gas supplies. This is where 307 00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:07,360 Speaker 1: we start the conversation with the gar Shamali is back 308 00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:11,520 Speaker 1: with us. The CEO of Greenwich Media Strategy, spent some 309 00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:14,199 Speaker 1: time at Treasury as a spokesperson for the Terror and 310 00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:17,199 Speaker 1: Financial Intelligence Unit, also a senior policy advisor and the 311 00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:21,720 Speaker 1: Treasury Sanctions Division. Also now nonresident senior Fellow with the 312 00:19:21,760 --> 00:19:25,000 Speaker 1: Atlantic Council's Geoeconomics Center. I could keep going a guard, 313 00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:26,920 Speaker 1: but I need to ask you questions at some point here. 314 00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:28,800 Speaker 1: Thank you for coming back. It's great to have you. 315 00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:32,320 Speaker 1: What do you think about this next layer of sanctions 316 00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:35,320 Speaker 1: to actually go after political figures in Russia? Is that 317 00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:39,199 Speaker 1: the type of pressure that we can apply indirectly on 318 00:19:39,280 --> 00:19:43,640 Speaker 1: Vladimir Putin? Well? And a move like that just sanction 319 00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:48,000 Speaker 1: that many that that many individuals. You're talking about about 320 00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:51,840 Speaker 1: three individuals. That's not a move Treasury has taken before 321 00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:56,240 Speaker 1: against other countries where we've also have heavy sanctions regimes, 322 00:19:56,280 --> 00:20:00,359 Speaker 1: for example Iran or North Korea or Syria and in aviably. 323 00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:02,320 Speaker 1: In that group of three, you're also going to hit 324 00:20:02,359 --> 00:20:05,600 Speaker 1: some oligarchs, those who are tied to President Putin. In fact, 325 00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:08,720 Speaker 1: most of the parliamentarians in the Duma in the Russian 326 00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:11,879 Speaker 1: Parliament are tied to President Putin or somehow allowed to 327 00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:15,360 Speaker 1: be there or are encouraged to be there, or are 328 00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:19,000 Speaker 1: individuals he himself is placed. So it is going to 329 00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:23,119 Speaker 1: help undermine the disrupt and dismantled the financial networks of 330 00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:25,760 Speaker 1: the Kremlin. But I think the most important part with 331 00:20:25,800 --> 00:20:28,200 Speaker 1: this move that you have coming up is that it's 332 00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:32,520 Speaker 1: going to show unity with you, with UM, the European 333 00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:35,080 Speaker 1: States and they're trying to show that there's no daylight 334 00:20:35,119 --> 00:20:37,600 Speaker 1: between the United States and Europe when it comes to 335 00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:40,800 Speaker 1: these targeted financial measures. When they talk about next steps 336 00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:45,840 Speaker 1: for Ukraine, Uh, that's a separate conversation as we as 337 00:20:45,840 --> 00:20:48,920 Speaker 1: we discussed military strategy or at least military support here. 338 00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:52,080 Speaker 1: But but the real action is in the sanctions. Are 339 00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:57,320 Speaker 1: are they working yet? Well? Yes, I need to define 340 00:20:57,359 --> 00:21:01,880 Speaker 1: what working means though they're all sanctions, especially come because 341 00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:04,960 Speaker 1: in the United States are extremely powerful and potent, and 342 00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:06,760 Speaker 1: the reason for that is that not only is it 343 00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:10,200 Speaker 1: going to cut off the target from the US financial 344 00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:13,399 Speaker 1: system by freezing any assets they have in US jurisdiction 345 00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:16,760 Speaker 1: and prohibiting US persons from doing business of them, but 346 00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:21,200 Speaker 1: it unleashes these global market forces where banks and businesses 347 00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:24,359 Speaker 1: from around the world decide that in order to protect 348 00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:28,080 Speaker 1: their own reputation and avoid risk, they also decide not 349 00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:30,600 Speaker 1: to do business with the sanctioned target. And there are 350 00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:32,760 Speaker 1: many reasons for that. Some of it is reputational risk. 351 00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:35,399 Speaker 1: Some of it is because if it's a bank, maybe 352 00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:37,840 Speaker 1: they have correspondent relationships with New York and they don't 353 00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:40,640 Speaker 1: want to undermine that, or maybe they don't want they're 354 00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:42,680 Speaker 1: afraid to get in the crosshairs of U. S. Sanctions. 355 00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:46,760 Speaker 1: There's a threat right now that Congress is debating secondary sanctions. 356 00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:51,639 Speaker 1: Secondary sanctions are when anybody doing business with the designated 357 00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:55,560 Speaker 1: target could also themselves be at threat of being of 358 00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:57,679 Speaker 1: being on the other side of U. S. Sanctions. So 359 00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:00,520 Speaker 1: that tends to deter that type of behavior. Redo that, 360 00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:02,439 Speaker 1: Gar And I ask you that because a lot of 361 00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:05,840 Speaker 1: Republican lawmakers have been calling for secondary sanctions, but they 362 00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:08,800 Speaker 1: have yet to produce legislation. Can the administration do that? 363 00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:11,159 Speaker 1: Or I guess a better way to ask is would 364 00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:14,520 Speaker 1: the U. S. Treasury get involved in that? Because because 365 00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:19,200 Speaker 1: it's indirect, well secondary. Right now, we have secondary sanctions 366 00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:23,439 Speaker 1: in place for Iran sanctions and for some sanctions related 367 00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:28,679 Speaker 1: to his Ballah different Russia, not with Russia. But it's 368 00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:31,200 Speaker 1: not a move that is taken by the by administration 369 00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:33,680 Speaker 1: or any administration. It's a it's a move that needs 370 00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:35,760 Speaker 1: to happen from the US understood, So that would have 371 00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:40,040 Speaker 1: to come from lawmakers. Absolutely, Yes, they're having a hard 372 00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:42,600 Speaker 1: time agreeing on this. I mean, at what, at what 373 00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:45,800 Speaker 1: point do you see a breakthrough happening? If you're following 374 00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:50,520 Speaker 1: this from the legislative perspective, Well, it has to be that, 375 00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:54,040 Speaker 1: I mean, if if they're complaining, if Republican lawmakers are 376 00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:57,480 Speaker 1: complaining that that it's not moving I and they're pointing 377 00:22:57,520 --> 00:22:59,800 Speaker 1: the finger at administration, they're pointing to finger at the 378 00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:01,840 Speaker 1: wrong people. It has to be that they draft a 379 00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:03,879 Speaker 1: bill and they work with their colleagues along across the 380 00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:06,160 Speaker 1: aisle to make it happen. And so what you're gonna 381 00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:08,159 Speaker 1: want to see his movement in the committees, right in 382 00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:10,760 Speaker 1: the Senate Banking Committee for example, that's where you're going 383 00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:13,320 Speaker 1: to see bills like that come out. And by the way, 384 00:23:13,320 --> 00:23:15,960 Speaker 1: they do work with the administration behind the scenes to 385 00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:20,359 Speaker 1: make sure that these these pieces of legislation are are 386 00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:24,440 Speaker 1: realistic and that they give the administration the authority they need, 387 00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:27,199 Speaker 1: but also without stepping on their toes too much and 388 00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:30,680 Speaker 1: making making things difficult. But but if you talked about 389 00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:32,520 Speaker 1: it quite a bit with Kevin Brady from ways and 390 00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:36,280 Speaker 1: means with to your point banking, we've had french Hill 391 00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:38,560 Speaker 1: talk about it. It's just you know, you start wondering 392 00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:41,120 Speaker 1: how many weeks can march by before we actually need 393 00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:44,439 Speaker 1: to produce a product here. But in terms of the 394 00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:48,879 Speaker 1: effectiveness of sanctions Cigar. Remember we were told that that 395 00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:52,399 Speaker 1: taking Russia out of the Swift network was the nuclear option, 396 00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:55,680 Speaker 1: is what they were calling it. At that point we 397 00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:59,560 Speaker 1: were told, uh, say, sanctioning the Central Bank would make 398 00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:02,160 Speaker 1: the different. I realized we haven't gone that far yet. 399 00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:04,879 Speaker 1: But how about any of these other levers that we 400 00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:08,720 Speaker 1: have pulled that we're supposed to shut things down and 401 00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:11,359 Speaker 1: it hasn't really changed any behavior on the part of 402 00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:17,280 Speaker 1: Vladimir Putin. Well, that's it's not requiring. Expecting sanctions to 403 00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:20,840 Speaker 1: completely change behavior would be an unrealistic expectation, and it's 404 00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:23,160 Speaker 1: not what the administration is trying to convey anyway, because 405 00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:25,520 Speaker 1: they're aware of that. Sanctions are just part of a 406 00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:29,400 Speaker 1: broader strategy, and it's the strategy that is meant to 407 00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:32,919 Speaker 1: change Putin's behavior, and sanctions are one pronged. Ultimately, the 408 00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:36,359 Speaker 1: goal of sanctions is to disrupt and dismantle the financial 409 00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:39,080 Speaker 1: networks of the Kremlin so that it makes it harder 410 00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:42,560 Speaker 1: for them to finance their war machine. And you are 411 00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:44,800 Speaker 1: already seeing effects of that. For example, there was a 412 00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:47,400 Speaker 1: report that came out from Ukraine, and again it's not confirmed, 413 00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:49,040 Speaker 1: it came out from Ukraine. But it was reported on 414 00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:53,359 Speaker 1: here that that the Russian military is unable to fix 415 00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:56,080 Speaker 1: or build new tanks, and the reason for that is 416 00:24:56,119 --> 00:24:58,440 Speaker 1: that they're not able to get the components they need 417 00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:00,919 Speaker 1: that are made from elsewhere around the world. So banning 418 00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:04,640 Speaker 1: the technology imports was a wise obviously a wise move 419 00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:09,120 Speaker 1: here in the combined sanctions impact the gar Shamali, thank 420 00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:10,960 Speaker 1: you so much for being with us. I really appreciate 421 00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:13,160 Speaker 1: your insights. Come back because we're gonna learn a lot 422 00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:15,720 Speaker 1: more tomorrow and we'll need you to walk us through 423 00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:18,240 Speaker 1: some of this here on sound On. I'm Joe Matthew 424 00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:20,480 Speaker 1: and Washington. Thanks for being with us. We'll reassemble the 425 00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:29,920 Speaker 1: panel next. This is Bloomberg. This is Bloomberg, So long 426 00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:38,320 Speaker 1: with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. Considering what we heard 427 00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:42,560 Speaker 1: from Hugar Shamali, we reassemble the panel with an eye 428 00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:45,280 Speaker 1: on sanctions. Here. President Biden, if you're just joining us, 429 00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:48,200 Speaker 1: has made his way to Brussels Air Force one touchdown 430 00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:52,600 Speaker 1: of just about an hour ago at this point, and 431 00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:55,040 Speaker 1: of course there are several hours ahead of us. They'll 432 00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:59,359 Speaker 1: get to the real business tomorrow with extraordinary meetings as 433 00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:02,480 Speaker 1: they refer to the Extraordinary Meeting of NATO, an emergency 434 00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:05,879 Speaker 1: meeting essentially, and he'll also be conducting uh some talks 435 00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:09,480 Speaker 1: with r G seven allies before moving on to Poland. 436 00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:13,040 Speaker 1: We reassemble the panel with Rick Davis and Jeanne Schanzano 437 00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:17,680 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Politics contributors. Rick, what's your thought on I don't 438 00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:20,000 Speaker 1: mean to be impatient here, but you know, people are 439 00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:23,040 Speaker 1: dying and we're starting to ask more questions about the 440 00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:26,560 Speaker 1: effectiveness of the sanctions already in place. You remember Swift 441 00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:30,960 Speaker 1: was supposed to be the end all be all. At 442 00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:34,520 Speaker 1: what point should we start seeing the impact beyond what 443 00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:37,480 Speaker 1: we have already. Well, one of the things you hope 444 00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:42,600 Speaker 1: to accomplish is disruption within the community around the Russia. 445 00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:47,800 Speaker 1: And so you are seeing protests and disruptions um uh 446 00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:51,160 Speaker 1: and and they're being met with violent reactions from from 447 00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:55,280 Speaker 1: Putin's government and stormtroopers. So so that is actually starting 448 00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:57,639 Speaker 1: to happen and I think that's a positive sign that 449 00:26:57,680 --> 00:26:59,680 Speaker 1: and that's a metric for you to see the people, 450 00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:02,280 Speaker 1: if the people are rising up or not, yeah, because 451 00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:05,480 Speaker 1: that actually can create change. Right If Putin fields like 452 00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:08,880 Speaker 1: he's losing his grip politically in Russia, that's more important 453 00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:12,600 Speaker 1: to him than the battlefield in the Ukraine. And so 454 00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:15,280 Speaker 1: I think that is a very important target of these 455 00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:18,280 Speaker 1: economic sanctions that are going through plus uh, and I 456 00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:21,439 Speaker 1: think this is the subject of the EU discussions is 457 00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:26,960 Speaker 1: Russia is very good at finding holes in the sanctions regime, 458 00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:30,040 Speaker 1: and so you just got to keep cracking down so 459 00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:33,280 Speaker 1: that those holes get closed along the way. And there 460 00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:36,280 Speaker 1: was no way to foresee that. Um, you know, Russia 461 00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:40,840 Speaker 1: insisting that you buy their oil with rubles, that's another example. Uh. 462 00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:43,439 Speaker 1: And so I think that that that will start to 463 00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:46,320 Speaker 1: happen in and around the G seven and around the 464 00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:48,960 Speaker 1: the the EU meetings, and I think that just puts 465 00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:52,800 Speaker 1: more and more pressure on the Russian population, which will 466 00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:57,159 Speaker 1: hopefully result in uh, their protestations that will help to 467 00:27:57,240 --> 00:28:01,000 Speaker 1: stabilize Putin. Does the swift bit here seems a little 468 00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:03,000 Speaker 1: cute to you at this point, Genie, Remember that was 469 00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:05,400 Speaker 1: just supposed to be, you know, something that we've only 470 00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:08,960 Speaker 1: ever done to Iran. This is beyond anything. Well, it's happened, 471 00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:13,720 Speaker 1: and you know there are calls for more still. Yeah, 472 00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:16,040 Speaker 1: And you know it's interesting because you go back just 473 00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:18,480 Speaker 1: a few weeks and people were saying, you know, this 474 00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:21,119 Speaker 1: would be the be all, end all, and apparently it's not. 475 00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:24,400 Speaker 1: But I think the reality of sanctions, and in your 476 00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:27,920 Speaker 1: discussion this was just addressed, is that it's seldom changes 477 00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:30,320 Speaker 1: the behavior. It's not going to change the behavior of 478 00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:34,400 Speaker 1: somebody like Putin. But to Rick's point, unfortunately, what you're 479 00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:37,600 Speaker 1: doing with sanctions is you are pressuring the middle class. 480 00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:41,320 Speaker 1: You are pressuring the people within the system, within the 481 00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:44,200 Speaker 1: nation who are suffering as a result of this. I mean, 482 00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:47,320 Speaker 1: we heard this over the weekend with this producer from 483 00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:51,080 Speaker 1: Moscow who protested live on TV. She was on ABC saying, 484 00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:54,120 Speaker 1: you know, this is what's happening. You know, my child 485 00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:56,840 Speaker 1: couldn't go to school and buy lunch, for instance. So 486 00:28:57,240 --> 00:28:59,520 Speaker 1: that's you know, you're hurting those people, and you're also 487 00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:02,120 Speaker 1: hurting people at the upper levels. You know, we heard 488 00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:06,520 Speaker 1: one of Dunamar Putin's closest advisers has now resigned and 489 00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:09,440 Speaker 1: left the country. He's the highest level official to break 490 00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:12,800 Speaker 1: off from Moscow over this. Now that's not a direct 491 00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:15,320 Speaker 1: result from sanctions, but that's the kind of pressure that's 492 00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:18,080 Speaker 1: going to change Putin's behavior because he's not going to 493 00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:23,520 Speaker 1: be impacted monetarily by these sanctions himself or personally. Well, 494 00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:26,280 Speaker 1: I'll tell you it's gonna be interesting to hear from 495 00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:29,480 Speaker 1: the President tomorrow in terms of what they are announcing here. 496 00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:31,440 Speaker 1: It seems to me that that it's it's not going 497 00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:34,440 Speaker 1: to have the impact that we're hoping until we can 498 00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:37,760 Speaker 1: find an alternate source of l n G for Europe. Right, 499 00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:40,800 Speaker 1: just cut him off, That cut off that entire economy 500 00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:43,520 Speaker 1: for Russia. I want to move to the Supreme Court 501 00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:46,280 Speaker 1: hearings today. It's something that we've talked about each day. 502 00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:49,080 Speaker 1: It's it's still underway right now. Actually they just went 503 00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:52,360 Speaker 1: to break a short time ago. Uh, the second day 504 00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:55,600 Speaker 1: of questions. The members of the judiciary get another twenty 505 00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:57,240 Speaker 1: minutes today and it's really sent it a lot like 506 00:29:57,360 --> 00:30:02,600 Speaker 1: yesterday and in becoming this ex ended expose on child 507 00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:06,040 Speaker 1: pornography cases. I know Rick and Jeanie you both have 508 00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:08,560 Speaker 1: been monitoring this and we talked about it a bit yesterday. 509 00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:12,360 Speaker 1: But Lindsey Graham went after it, Josh Holly went after it, 510 00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:16,280 Speaker 1: Ted Cruz went after it. Tom Cotton all specifically about 511 00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:21,400 Speaker 1: these nine cases in which she's sentenced below guidelines and 512 00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:24,800 Speaker 1: below what prosecutors were asking for. It's gotten to the 513 00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:27,680 Speaker 1: point now where Republican grandstanding. Rick, we talked about this 514 00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:32,000 Speaker 1: a bit earlier in the day, is completely blowing the 515 00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:35,040 Speaker 1: chair out of the water. Dick Durbin doesn't even know 516 00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:36,680 Speaker 1: what to do. I want to play in exchange for 517 00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:39,800 Speaker 1: you with Ted Cruz and the chair of the Judiciary 518 00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:43,080 Speaker 1: Committee is this has become even we're not even talking 519 00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:46,480 Speaker 1: to the witness any longer. Judge Katangi Brown Jackson is 520 00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:53,120 Speaker 1: now in the audience. You come in seven months in 521 00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:55,160 Speaker 1: the Stewart case, do you want to address that because 522 00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:57,600 Speaker 1: you're claiming it's cherry picking. In fact, you're welcome to 523 00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:00,520 Speaker 1: explain any of these cases. But let's take the Stewart one. 524 00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:03,520 Speaker 1: Did you sentence him for half the amount? You're not 525 00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:06,640 Speaker 1: recognized center Senator. You don't want her to answer that question. 526 00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:09,400 Speaker 1: You wouldn't allow her any Mr Chairman. She may answer 527 00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:13,360 Speaker 1: the question. I've asked her why she's sentence Stewart sat 528 00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:16,120 Speaker 1: by two minutes? Why she because you've interrupted me for 529 00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:18,200 Speaker 1: two minutes? Mr Chairman, Will you allow her to answer 530 00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:20,120 Speaker 1: the question, or do you not want the American people 531 00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:25,080 Speaker 1: to hear why? With someone? She described as an egregious point, Senator, 532 00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:27,080 Speaker 1: where you get a little bit Chairman Durbin, will you 533 00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:30,280 Speaker 1: allow her just keeps going on for minutes? I will 534 00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:34,400 Speaker 1: happily allow her to the question is why Stewart an 535 00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:37,040 Speaker 1: egregious child, Chris Coons is trying to get in and 536 00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:42,080 Speaker 1: save half of the amount requested by the prosecutor. I'd 537 00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:43,680 Speaker 1: play the whole thing for We're not enough time in 538 00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:47,640 Speaker 1: the show, this one on This was an extended passage today. Rick, 539 00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:49,480 Speaker 1: You've been in a lot of these hearings. You've helped 540 00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:54,080 Speaker 1: to prepare senators for hearings. We were told yesterday and 541 00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:56,360 Speaker 1: on Monday about what this would not be right the 542 00:31:56,360 --> 00:32:00,200 Speaker 1: Republican members. We're pledging to not have to go through 543 00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:05,160 Speaker 1: another Kavanaugh style hearing. But it got pretty chippy today. 544 00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:08,000 Speaker 1: At what point does this run a foul to Senate 545 00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:11,880 Speaker 1: rules or relationships? What does the chairman do after this? Why? 546 00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:14,720 Speaker 1: I think you're a long way away from actually running 547 00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:16,440 Speaker 1: a foul of Senate rules. I mean, you know that 548 00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:20,440 Speaker 1: Senate rules are actually built in order to have a 549 00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:25,160 Speaker 1: fulsome debate, and so that's the hardest thing to peel back. 550 00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:28,400 Speaker 1: But look, I mean focus on Judge Jackson. What was 551 00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:31,520 Speaker 1: her reaction all this? I think she just stayed relatively quiet. 552 00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:34,760 Speaker 1: If the senator wants to use his twenty minutes to 553 00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:37,760 Speaker 1: go on to a tirade, um, then let him go 554 00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:40,360 Speaker 1: on a tirade, because there's absolutely And when you look 555 00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:43,880 Speaker 1: at the transcript, she said like three words in twenty minutes, 556 00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:47,160 Speaker 1: and and and yet he claims that the chair was 557 00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:49,520 Speaker 1: keeping him from getting an answer when and he had 558 00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:53,160 Speaker 1: no interest in an answer whatsoever. So she was well briefed. 559 00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:56,920 Speaker 1: She she kept cool. Uh, that's the key thing. Don't 560 00:32:57,000 --> 00:32:59,280 Speaker 1: let this is all just grand state what happens after 561 00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:01,320 Speaker 1: a hearing like us, they'll bring us, uh, you know, 562 00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:03,920 Speaker 1: backstage for a minute. Does does does Ted Cruze get 563 00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:06,200 Speaker 1: a call to come down to the chairs office? Do 564 00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:08,080 Speaker 1: they see each other next time they talk? And what 565 00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:09,680 Speaker 1: the hell is that all about? You mean, what what 566 00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:14,640 Speaker 1: follows that? Usually nothing, there's especially across the aisle. Sometimes 567 00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:18,320 Speaker 1: this happens within the Republican caucus the Democratic caucus. Then 568 00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:22,120 Speaker 1: there is a conversation. UM, I know John McCain used 569 00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:25,800 Speaker 1: to have those conversations with Mitch McConnell all the time. Uh, 570 00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:28,600 Speaker 1: and and some went fine and some did not go, fine, 571 00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:32,160 Speaker 1: but but in this case, uh, you've just marked this 572 00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:37,240 Speaker 1: up as score settling because from Ted Cruz, Holly, Uh, 573 00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:40,160 Speaker 1: Lindsey Graham, they all feel like this is exactly what 574 00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:44,600 Speaker 1: the Democrats did to Kavanaugh and and and they're now 575 00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:48,280 Speaker 1: doing it to Jackson. And this is good politics, right, Jennie. 576 00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:51,080 Speaker 1: If everyone's going to raise money on this, you know, 577 00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:53,920 Speaker 1: I don't know if it's good politics. Yeah, they they 578 00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:56,400 Speaker 1: will raise money on it. It is preposterous to me, 579 00:33:56,480 --> 00:33:58,320 Speaker 1: you said, Rick and I are following this. I have 580 00:33:58,360 --> 00:33:59,800 Speaker 1: to tell you, I don't know what it says about me, 581 00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:02,080 Speaker 1: but I have been glued to this um for two 582 00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:05,800 Speaker 1: days now, wasting my life. Joe Matthew listening to this nonsense. 583 00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:09,239 Speaker 1: But you know that you heard, you know they they 584 00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:13,160 Speaker 1: are relitigating. You know, you had Lindsay Graham asking her 585 00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:15,920 Speaker 1: towards the end of his time period today. You know, 586 00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:18,960 Speaker 1: if I knew something about you and I raised it 587 00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:21,759 Speaker 1: at the last minute, you know, just relitigating Justice kav 588 00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:24,279 Speaker 1: and I have expected him to ask her to relitigate 589 00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:26,640 Speaker 1: Robert Bourke as if she's had anything to do with this. 590 00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:29,000 Speaker 1: And you know, if you listen to this, you would 591 00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:31,439 Speaker 1: think the only thing the woman has ever done as 592 00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:35,640 Speaker 1: a judge is these six to nine cases on child porn. 593 00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:38,480 Speaker 1: And you know, I thought, when Josh Holly asked her 594 00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:41,120 Speaker 1: towards the end of the day, do you regret your 595 00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:44,560 Speaker 1: sentencing and child porn? She was so smart and saying, 596 00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:47,759 Speaker 1: I regret that my hearings about my qualifications to be 597 00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:50,279 Speaker 1: a justice on the Supreme Court has focused on this 598 00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:55,279 Speaker 1: small subset of these sentences. And that's absolutely the right response. Well, 599 00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:58,960 Speaker 1: so we're gonna have a pretty quiet day tomorrow witness testimony. Uh, 600 00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:01,760 Speaker 1: they haven't scheduled vote yet, Rick, but in our remaining 601 00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:04,360 Speaker 1: thirty seconds, you both still believe she will be confirmed 602 00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:07,080 Speaker 1: on party line, yes, Rick Davis, Yeah, party line. I 603 00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:09,960 Speaker 1: mean nothing I saw this week is going to indicate 604 00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:12,720 Speaker 1: to me that they're going to be any Republicans crossing aisle. 605 00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:15,799 Speaker 1: Same for Eugenie. Yeah, she she probably will just get 606 00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:18,560 Speaker 1: the fifty one, but maybe she'll get one or two Republicans. 607 00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:22,680 Speaker 1: I'm not sure. We'll see about that, Rick Davis. Jennie Chanzano, 608 00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:25,680 Speaker 1: great talking, Thanks as ever. Our signature panel on Bloomberg 609 00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:28,719 Speaker 1: sound On. In this Women's History month, it is March 610 00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:32,640 Speaker 1: still every day this month, we're celebrating with Bloomberg's Nita Young. 611 00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:37,120 Speaker 1: Here's her installment for Wednesday, March. On this day in 612 00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:42,000 Speaker 1: Women's History. In nineteen seventeen, Virginia Wolf establishes the Hogarth 613 00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:45,239 Speaker 1: Press with her husband Leonard Wolf, in the dining room 614 00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:49,080 Speaker 1: of their home. They published works by key modernist writers, 615 00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:52,640 Speaker 1: and on the day they established the Hogarth Press, Virginia 616 00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:54,960 Speaker 1: and Leonard were walking down the street in London and 617 00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:59,319 Speaker 1: saw the Excelsior Printing Supply Company window. Before that, they'd 618 00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:01,960 Speaker 1: been turned down down at the St Bride School of Printing, 619 00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:05,319 Speaker 1: but when they walked into Excelsior, and assistant convinced them 620 00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:08,240 Speaker 1: that with the help of a sixteen page booklet, they'd 621 00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:11,120 Speaker 1: be able to teach themselves all they needed to start 622 00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:14,800 Speaker 1: their own printing business. So the Wolves bought a small 623 00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:19,000 Speaker 1: hand printing press and launched the business. Virginia would print 624 00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:21,799 Speaker 1: several of her own books, and she's now considered one 625 00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:25,319 Speaker 1: of the most innovative writers of the twentieth century. Through 626 00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:30,120 Speaker 1: their non linear approaches to writing, Virginia's novels greatly influenced 627 00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:34,080 Speaker 1: the narrative genre that's today in women's history. I'm reneed 628 00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:37,520 Speaker 1: a young Bloomberg Radio. We need to thank you and 629 00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:41,319 Speaker 1: thanks to everyone for jumping in for Bloomberg sound on today, 630 00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:44,960 Speaker 1: including Ambassador Kickering, t Garshamali Rick and Genie. Will do 631 00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:47,040 Speaker 1: it again tomorrow. I'll meet you back here the fastest 632 00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:49,440 Speaker 1: hour in politics. This is Bloomberg