WEBVTT - One Summer Night 0:00:02.120 --> 0:00:06.360 On a nondescript summer morning nearly five decades ago, Detective PETERH. 0:00:06.360 --> 0:00:08.440 Hiscock was one of the first to be confronted by 0:00:08.480 --> 0:00:13.600 an especially distressing crime scene. It was Thursday, January thirteenth, 0:00:13.760 --> 0:00:16.759 nineteen seventy seven, and the bodies of two young women 0:00:16.840 --> 0:00:19.160 lay on the floor of their small workers cottage in 0:00:19.239 --> 0:00:23.520 Easy Street, Collingwood. They'd been dead for two days and 0:00:23.600 --> 0:00:24.759 three long nights. 0:00:26.680 --> 0:00:32.680 It would be absolutely fair to say that I'm seventy 0:00:32.720 --> 0:00:38.000 five now, hardly a day goes by. I would say 0:00:38.000 --> 0:00:42.040 that I don't think about this particular murder. 0:00:43.000 --> 0:00:45.680 Thirty year old Peterhiscock was one of the first detectives 0:00:45.720 --> 0:00:48.400 to enter the house in Easy Street, and he's never 0:00:48.440 --> 0:00:49.040 forgotten it. 0:00:50.840 --> 0:00:54.200 If I drive up Hoddle Street, it doesn't matter where 0:00:54.240 --> 0:00:59.840 I'm going north or south, I always will go over 0:00:59.880 --> 0:01:04.160 to Easy Street. I know it's changed, but it's just 0:01:04.240 --> 0:01:06.320 something that happens to me. I just look up and 0:01:06.360 --> 0:01:10.160 down there. Now. I've done an extraordinary amount of investigations 0:01:10.200 --> 0:01:15.319 since that time, but there's always something that stays in 0:01:15.360 --> 0:01:20.679 your mind, and those two murders stuck in my mind. 0:01:23.040 --> 0:01:25.680 The murders of twenty seven year old Susan Bartlett and 0:01:25.720 --> 0:01:29.000 twenty eight year old Susanne Armstrong in their own home 0:01:29.480 --> 0:01:33.640 shook the staid city of Melbourne to its heart. Senior 0:01:33.680 --> 0:01:36.360 police warned all women living in the city to take 0:01:36.400 --> 0:01:40.360 care as a sex maniac was on the prow, even 0:01:40.400 --> 0:01:42.839 going as far to advise them to lock their doors 0:01:42.840 --> 0:01:43.479 and windows. 0:01:44.200 --> 0:01:47.320 It's always concerned me the number of women who do 0:01:47.440 --> 0:01:51.200 live alone or secondly stay alone in their homes and 0:01:51.240 --> 0:01:54.000 seem to take no precautions at all. What do you 0:01:54.000 --> 0:01:57.680 mean exactly, Well, they leave doors open, they leave windows open, 0:01:57.760 --> 0:01:59.960 they leave lights on. In other words, they add the time, 0:02:00.200 --> 0:02:03.120 the fact that they are home alone, leave blinds open 0:02:03.160 --> 0:02:05.200 while they're watching Kelly in this sort of thing. 0:02:05.440 --> 0:02:08.600 But are you suggesting that those women should lock themselves away. 0:02:09.160 --> 0:02:11.800 I don't suggest they should put themselves in the form 0:02:11.840 --> 0:02:15.640 of being imprisoned, but I think there are certain reasonable 0:02:15.680 --> 0:02:20.640 security measures that people can take to ensure their safety. 0:02:21.440 --> 0:02:24.920 Their language was almost visceral, the details released about the 0:02:24.960 --> 0:02:29.240 attack unpleasantly blunt and from the outset. The deaths of 0:02:29.280 --> 0:02:32.480 the two suits, as the friends were affectionately known, has 0:02:32.560 --> 0:02:36.680 haunted investigators and community, and not just because of the 0:02:36.760 --> 0:02:42.839 terrible violence involved. It's also been dogged by almost implausible circumstance. 0:02:43.600 --> 0:02:47.840 Aside from Susan Bartlett and Suzanne Armstrong's killer, three other 0:02:47.919 --> 0:02:50.360 men had gone in and out of their little house 0:02:50.480 --> 0:02:54.840 as they lay dead, apparently unnoticed, just meters away, with 0:02:54.919 --> 0:02:59.480 Suzanne's young son, Gregory, lonely dehydrated and hungary in his cot. 0:03:01.360 --> 0:03:03.679 All three men claimed not to have seen or heard 0:03:03.720 --> 0:03:08.280 anything suspicious during these nocturnal visits. The first to enter 0:03:08.320 --> 0:03:11.520 the house was a friend of Susan's. Incredibly, the night 0:03:11.560 --> 0:03:14.200 after she was killed, he walked up the side lane 0:03:14.200 --> 0:03:17.400 of the property and climbed in her bedroom window, moving 0:03:17.440 --> 0:03:20.799 into the hall, agonizingly close to her body to get 0:03:20.840 --> 0:03:23.680 to the phone in the lounge room. He told police 0:03:23.760 --> 0:03:25.880 later that he had been calling Susan and wanted to 0:03:25.960 --> 0:03:28.120 check that he had the right phone number. After getting 0:03:28.160 --> 0:03:32.440 no answer, reassured that he had the correct number after 0:03:32.520 --> 0:03:35.120 checking the old fashioned war phone in the lounge. He 0:03:35.240 --> 0:03:38.960 then retraced his steps, climbing back outer window and into 0:03:39.000 --> 0:03:42.200 the laneway. A friend was waiting for him there in 0:03:42.240 --> 0:03:46.600 the lane, so could verify this, as hard as it 0:03:46.680 --> 0:03:50.080 is to believe. Twenty four hours later, two brothers entered 0:03:50.120 --> 0:03:52.560 the house through the back door to see if Suzanne 0:03:52.640 --> 0:03:55.480 was home. The oldest of the pair had taken her 0:03:55.520 --> 0:03:59.280 out the previous weekend, and as arranged, tried to ring 0:03:59.360 --> 0:04:03.640 to confirm the next date. Unable to reach her, the 0:04:03.640 --> 0:04:06.560 shearer from Country Victoria decided to pay her a visit 0:04:06.600 --> 0:04:09.880 at home, but he and his brother told detectives that 0:04:09.960 --> 0:04:12.480 after calling out to see if Suzanne and her toddler 0:04:12.520 --> 0:04:15.240 were home, they'd gone no further than the lounge that 0:04:15.360 --> 0:04:19.360 night to check if anyone was there. Instead, the new 0:04:19.440 --> 0:04:22.640 suitor left a note on the kitchen table asking Suzanne 0:04:22.640 --> 0:04:23.200 to call him. 0:04:24.120 --> 0:04:28.440 I went around there that night and just knocked at 0:04:28.480 --> 0:04:30.560 the front door, and there was a note on the door, 0:04:31.839 --> 0:04:33.800 and there was still no answer. So I went down 0:04:33.880 --> 0:04:37.000 the side and the gate was half way open, and 0:04:37.040 --> 0:04:39.560 the door was half way open, and there was a 0:04:39.640 --> 0:04:45.720 light on, and you, brother, I got a note and 0:04:46.160 --> 0:04:51.560 for her to ring me. And then you know, if 0:04:51.560 --> 0:04:53.680 I had walked in a little bit further, well, I 0:04:53.680 --> 0:04:56.080 would have spot on you another couple of yards. 0:04:56.520 --> 0:04:58.600 Did it ever occur to you to look in the 0:04:58.680 --> 0:04:59.400 rest of the house. 0:05:00.200 --> 0:05:02.480 Not really, No, I don't like going in people's houses. 0:05:02.520 --> 0:05:07.599 You know while there's snowing there, So it's being shocked 0:05:07.600 --> 0:05:10.680 to me. Yeah, well, Ida, it was gout to shakes 0:05:10.720 --> 0:05:12.960 and smoke. Can't even eat. 0:05:14.560 --> 0:05:18.239 Forty seven years later, it beggars belief that three people 0:05:18.320 --> 0:05:21.840 did not see here or sense anything amiss when inside 0:05:21.839 --> 0:05:26.000 a house beset by such trauma. Then again, what kind 0:05:26.080 --> 0:05:28.720 of person could encounter a scene like that and not 0:05:28.839 --> 0:05:33.599 raise the alarm. Police believed the three men had nothing 0:05:33.640 --> 0:05:36.320 to do with the murders. They were quickly cleared as 0:05:36.360 --> 0:05:39.880 suspects by detectives. The first visitor even allowed to leave 0:05:39.920 --> 0:05:43.120 the country before the coroner's inquest was held, and not 0:05:43.279 --> 0:05:47.400 much was made of their presence at all. But there's 0:05:47.440 --> 0:05:50.560 no denying that their failure to notice anything wrong meant 0:05:50.600 --> 0:05:53.480 that two young women slain had to wait almost two 0:05:53.520 --> 0:05:56.840 and a half days to be found in the summer 0:05:56.880 --> 0:06:01.400 heat in the heart of a busy city. Disconcerting two 0:06:01.720 --> 0:06:04.400 was the fact a man already linked to the disappearance 0:06:04.560 --> 0:06:06.880 of a nineteen year old woman in the city just 0:06:07.040 --> 0:06:10.240 eighteen months earlier, and only a couple of suburbs away, 0:06:10.920 --> 0:06:13.279 had been staying next door on the night of the 0:06:13.279 --> 0:06:18.960 Easy Street murders. For detectives it was a coincidence, too 0:06:19.040 --> 0:06:22.240 ugly to ignore. What were the odds of anyone being 0:06:22.279 --> 0:06:26.280 so close to two such cases? Improbably this man was 0:06:26.320 --> 0:06:31.800 also a crime reporter with Melbourne's Truth newspaper. Such strange 0:06:31.880 --> 0:06:35.800 twists of fact in a high profile homicide investigation are 0:06:35.839 --> 0:07:14.320 almost too bizarre to be true, but they are. When 0:07:14.360 --> 0:07:17.160 alone of Stevens and her housemate Janet Powell caught their 0:07:17.160 --> 0:07:20.040 neighbor's young dog running loose in the street, they had 0:07:20.080 --> 0:07:23.120 no idea of the saga about to engulf them, a 0:07:23.240 --> 0:07:27.800 saga still without end nearly fifty years later. Like the 0:07:27.840 --> 0:07:31.080 two suits, they were bright, busy young women, aloner working 0:07:31.080 --> 0:07:34.920 at the Truth newspaper, Janet co managing Casanova, an Italian 0:07:34.920 --> 0:07:38.560 restaurant in Carlton. The four women had only lived side 0:07:38.560 --> 0:07:41.000 by side for a few months and so hadn't had 0:07:41.040 --> 0:07:42.560 time to really get to know each other. 0:07:44.000 --> 0:07:47.960 Look just as neighbors, nodding hello, how are you? How's baby? 0:07:48.360 --> 0:07:48.480 Oh? 0:07:48.720 --> 0:07:52.600 Nice, nice puppy, but not that well, just to talk to, 0:07:52.920 --> 0:07:55.560 because don't forget, Janet and I both worked chief work 0:07:56.080 --> 0:07:59.320 and they worked regular jobs, so because our hours were 0:07:59.360 --> 0:08:02.440 so different, we really didn't ever become friendly, although we 0:08:02.440 --> 0:08:03.920 were roughly the same age. 0:08:04.120 --> 0:08:07.160 Okay, well let's go back to that week of January 0:08:07.200 --> 0:08:10.520 nineteen seventy seven. When did you first notice that something 0:08:10.600 --> 0:08:12.720 might be wrong, something might be a miss. 0:08:13.280 --> 0:08:16.440 Well, probably when I got home from work, because the 0:08:16.520 --> 0:08:19.320 dog was out, and that was very well. It was 0:08:19.400 --> 0:08:22.160 just strange because we lived it's near, very near Hoddle Street, 0:08:22.880 --> 0:08:25.520 and it was only a puppy, so you just don't 0:08:25.640 --> 0:08:28.080 let your dog out, even though in those days, of 0:08:28.120 --> 0:08:31.560 course people were more careless, but it just was unusual 0:08:31.600 --> 0:08:34.719 because they weren't careless people. That was Tuesday, so I 0:08:34.760 --> 0:08:37.319 would have got home from work, puppy was out, went 0:08:37.360 --> 0:08:40.400 straight round, knocked on doc, no answer. Well, I just 0:08:40.400 --> 0:08:42.240 thought that were out, So I took the puppy back 0:08:42.240 --> 0:08:45.679 into our house and just kept it and thought, no, well, 0:08:46.080 --> 0:08:48.559 we'll hear them come home and I'll whip next door then, 0:08:49.240 --> 0:08:50.960 but of course heard nothing. 0:08:52.800 --> 0:08:56.240 Later that Tuesday evening, Alona and Janet tried another tack. 0:08:56.960 --> 0:08:58.679 They left a note on the front door of one 0:08:58.679 --> 0:09:02.400 four seven. It read, dear sus, we have your dog 0:09:02.440 --> 0:09:05.280 which was wandering around the street. You're obviously not home, 0:09:05.559 --> 0:09:07.719 so give us a yell and we'll return. Same to 0:09:07.760 --> 0:09:13.160 you promptly, regards Alona and Janet. Alona left for work 0:09:13.200 --> 0:09:15.680 the next morning and didn't notice the note was still there, 0:09:16.480 --> 0:09:19.480 exactly where they'd left it, But when she got back 0:09:19.520 --> 0:09:22.280 home later that Wednesday evening, she saw the note was 0:09:22.320 --> 0:09:24.439 still pinned to the door and the young dog was 0:09:24.480 --> 0:09:28.240 still in their backyard. More worryingly, as she got ready 0:09:28.280 --> 0:09:31.760 for bed, she could hear little Greg crying, albeit softly, 0:09:32.080 --> 0:09:34.960 from beyond the party wall the two cottages shared. 0:09:36.360 --> 0:09:40.960 Probably by Wednesday night, we were well, Janet not so 0:09:41.040 --> 0:09:44.079 much because she was real busy, you know, the two 0:09:44.120 --> 0:09:46.240 of them were trying to run a restaurant and she 0:09:46.280 --> 0:09:48.480 would just come home, exhausted, fall into bed, get up 0:09:48.520 --> 0:09:50.760 next day, go back to the restaurant. But yeah, just 0:09:50.920 --> 0:09:52.640 was odd. The note was still on the door, We 0:09:52.800 --> 0:09:57.280 still have the dog, and periodically I thought I could 0:09:57.360 --> 0:10:02.600 hear Greg crying. Wimprings. Not nothing major, but you know, 0:10:02.679 --> 0:10:04.520 you put that sort of stuff out of your mind. 0:10:12.520 --> 0:10:15.920 By Thursday morning, both a loner and her housemate Janet 0:10:15.960 --> 0:10:19.599 sent something really wasn't right. A loner recalls being a 0:10:19.640 --> 0:10:22.080 bit cross that a neighbors still hadn't collected their dog, 0:10:22.520 --> 0:10:26.600 but she was becoming increasingly uneasy about Greg's welfare, so 0:10:26.840 --> 0:10:29.679 before going to work, the pair decided to try their 0:10:29.720 --> 0:10:34.560 neighbor's front door again. They knocked loudly, banging harder the 0:10:34.600 --> 0:10:40.200 next time, then harder again. Still no answer. Nothing. 0:10:41.440 --> 0:10:44.880 So I decided I'd hop the fence and opened the 0:10:44.880 --> 0:10:46.800 gate and put the dog in the air. The gate 0:10:46.840 --> 0:10:49.600 was onto the lame way in their garden. We didn't 0:10:49.600 --> 0:10:52.280 have a gate in our garden, so that's when I 0:10:52.360 --> 0:10:54.480 hopped the fence. First thing Thursday morning. 0:10:55.880 --> 0:10:58.320 When Alana walked through the back door and into the kitchen, 0:10:58.640 --> 0:11:00.440 she sang out to the girls to see if they 0:11:00.480 --> 0:11:03.600 were home. She quickly passed through the small lounge room 0:11:03.800 --> 0:11:06.520 and into the hallway that ran along three rooms and 0:11:06.640 --> 0:11:09.800 up to the front door. As her eyes adjusted to 0:11:09.840 --> 0:11:12.600 the dim light, she saw Susan face down on her 0:11:12.600 --> 0:11:16.079 stomach in the hall, heartbreakingly close to that front door, 0:11:16.640 --> 0:11:19.880 and then moving forward, Suzanne on her back on the 0:11:19.880 --> 0:11:24.080 floor of the first bedroom. It was a tableau of 0:11:24.280 --> 0:11:28.600 unfathomable tragedy. Alner could see the women had been brutally killed. 0:11:29.440 --> 0:11:31.520 What she couldn't know at the time was that they 0:11:31.559 --> 0:11:35.480 had been stabbed collectively more than eighty times and Suzanne 0:11:35.559 --> 0:11:36.720 raped after death. 0:11:40.200 --> 0:11:42.960 The back door was open, well, not wide open, but 0:11:43.160 --> 0:11:46.120 certainly unlocked in Ajar. So I walked in saying, do 0:11:46.160 --> 0:11:50.000 you who? Anyone home? And got no reply. But as 0:11:50.000 --> 0:11:52.880 soon as I looked up the hallway it was completely 0:11:52.920 --> 0:11:54.479 obvious why there was no reply. 0:11:54.559 --> 0:11:55.560 And what did you see? 0:11:55.960 --> 0:12:02.680 I actually saw Susan's feet and they didn't look real flash. 0:12:03.360 --> 0:12:06.680 They were you know, sort of black, and you just 0:12:06.720 --> 0:12:08.800 look and you know, you go, oh, this is bad. 0:12:09.320 --> 0:12:12.000 Because the hallway had no windows, you know, the windows 0:12:12.040 --> 0:12:14.000 were in the rooms, so it's quite dark. But I 0:12:14.040 --> 0:12:17.040 do remember clearly seeing her feet and they weren't moving. 0:12:18.840 --> 0:12:22.280 What confronted her as she walked through the house remains daunting, 0:12:23.120 --> 0:12:25.840 especially that long check up the hallway to where Susan 0:12:25.960 --> 0:12:28.520 lay to see if there was anything she could do 0:12:28.640 --> 0:12:29.280 to help her. 0:12:30.600 --> 0:12:32.560 Well, I was still in the middle of going you who, 0:12:33.559 --> 0:12:36.760 So I walked down and as I got closer to her, 0:12:36.760 --> 0:12:40.520 it was very obvious that she was dead, and I 0:12:40.640 --> 0:12:43.520 kind of knelt over just to make sure I didn't 0:12:43.559 --> 0:12:46.480 touch her. She was right. Her head was right at 0:12:46.520 --> 0:12:50.840 the front door, and that's when I looked sideways into 0:12:50.840 --> 0:12:54.400 the front bedroom and saw Suzanne. It was obvious that 0:12:55.000 --> 0:12:59.679 Susan had been almost brutalized. There was sort of handmarks 0:12:59.720 --> 0:13:04.920 on the wall. But Suzanne was lying on her back 0:13:05.640 --> 0:13:10.360 and fairly scantily clad, and it was quite obvious she 0:13:10.400 --> 0:13:13.000 was dead too, And so I just then I turned 0:13:13.120 --> 0:13:15.640 and walked out and yelled out to Janet to call 0:13:15.679 --> 0:13:17.200 the police. 0:13:17.920 --> 0:13:20.800 In her haste to check on Susan and Suzanne alone 0:13:20.880 --> 0:13:23.960 hadn't even glanced at sixteen month old Greg Armstrong, who 0:13:24.000 --> 0:13:26.959 was in his cot in the middle bedroom, But as 0:13:26.960 --> 0:13:29.320 she headed to the back door, she checked on the 0:13:29.320 --> 0:13:31.040 little boy. 0:13:31.200 --> 0:13:31.400 Well. 0:13:31.440 --> 0:13:33.800 I actually walked in there and had a look at him. 0:13:34.120 --> 0:13:37.400 He was I guess he was probably dehydrated, but he 0:13:37.480 --> 0:13:40.960 seemed fine. So I just kept going and yelling out 0:13:41.000 --> 0:13:42.560 for Janet to quickly call the police. 0:13:42.600 --> 0:13:44.480 Do you remember how she responded to you. I mean, 0:13:44.520 --> 0:13:46.280 it must have been a shock for her even hearing that. 0:13:47.040 --> 0:13:50.440 Yeah, I recall she just sort of went why and 0:13:50.520 --> 0:13:54.400 I said, the girls are dead, and she just ran 0:13:54.440 --> 0:13:57.040 inside because in those days we had the black dialar phone, 0:13:57.840 --> 0:14:01.240 so she dialed the police and I just waited outside 0:14:01.320 --> 0:14:05.680 at the front, no out the side, and Alona Stevens 0:14:05.679 --> 0:14:06.840 had to wait for a while. 0:14:07.520 --> 0:14:09.960 She's pretty sure. It took two telephone calls to get 0:14:10.000 --> 0:14:12.719 the local police to take seriously what a housemate was 0:14:12.760 --> 0:14:16.120 reporting two women were dead in the house next door, 0:14:17.520 --> 0:14:20.680 but even then only a young uniformed officer was dispatched 0:14:20.720 --> 0:14:25.320 to see what was going on. One uniformed officer. 0:14:26.720 --> 0:14:29.800 Things sort of moved slowly in your mind, but I 0:14:29.840 --> 0:14:33.080 do remember thinking this is urgent, and then of course 0:14:33.120 --> 0:14:36.720 one car rolled up with someone who is probably my age, saying, 0:14:36.760 --> 0:14:39.360 you know what's going on here? And I said, I 0:14:39.400 --> 0:14:41.120 think my neighbors have been killed. 0:14:43.720 --> 0:14:46.480 The pattern of not hearing women trying to share information 0:14:46.560 --> 0:14:49.640 with police that shadowed this and other call cases in 0:14:49.760 --> 0:14:53.440 Victoria started even before the official investigation. 0:14:54.640 --> 0:14:58.320 I remember there was no urgency from anybody. They certainly 0:14:58.880 --> 0:15:02.920 were not believing us, and hence they sent the young 0:15:02.960 --> 0:15:04.760 man in one car. I was waiting in the lane, 0:15:04.800 --> 0:15:06.800 so he came up to me and I said, look, 0:15:07.040 --> 0:15:08.120 you need to go inside. 0:15:08.360 --> 0:15:08.760 They did. 0:15:09.520 --> 0:15:12.960 He did walk inside, and within it seemed like five 0:15:13.080 --> 0:15:16.600 seconds there were police and cars and uniform and non uniform, 0:15:16.640 --> 0:15:18.560 and we were surrounded by activity. 0:15:19.760 --> 0:15:22.960 Finally, Victoria's homicide squad was at the scene. 0:15:24.600 --> 0:15:28.960 Going there on that day myself, Graha McDonald got a 0:15:28.960 --> 0:15:34.560 call that there was a double death in a house 0:15:34.600 --> 0:15:39.600 in Collingwood. It's a lower socio economic area those times, 0:15:40.560 --> 0:15:45.520 so you never assume anything, but it was quite possible 0:15:45.600 --> 0:15:49.720 it was a murder suicide or just a double suicide. 0:15:50.000 --> 0:15:50.560 Who would know. 0:15:50.760 --> 0:15:55.360 We had no idea because the uniform police had been 0:15:56.360 --> 0:16:00.240 there and they were not to go in. So when 0:16:00.240 --> 0:16:03.320 we arrived there was a young policeman just inside the door. 0:16:03.320 --> 0:16:07.800 He's been guarding it and it was just a scene 0:16:08.560 --> 0:16:10.800 that you'd never ever forget in your life. 0:16:13.200 --> 0:16:16.480 Former Detective Peter Hiscock remained struck by the horrific nature 0:16:16.520 --> 0:16:20.240 of the attacks on both women, Susanne Armstrong first in 0:16:20.320 --> 0:16:23.280 her bedroom and then Susan Bartlett in the hall. 0:16:24.800 --> 0:16:26.960 Still to this day now we're talking about it now, 0:16:27.080 --> 0:16:31.160 I can see it just like a video in my mind. 0:16:31.920 --> 0:16:34.440 And of course then we went around the back being 0:16:34.480 --> 0:16:37.240 the scene. Now scenes that protected a whole lot better 0:16:37.280 --> 0:16:40.800 now than they were there. They're protected then, but they've 0:16:40.880 --> 0:16:43.840 changed a lot now and what you see on TV 0:16:44.120 --> 0:16:48.080 is probably what happens now, but not in those days. 0:16:48.080 --> 0:16:49.920 You're just going to see what's happened. For a start 0:16:50.160 --> 0:16:53.160 to quickly try and assess it. But it didn't take 0:16:53.920 --> 0:16:58.760 myself and Grahea McDonald very long to work out. This 0:16:58.960 --> 0:17:03.120 was one terrible, terrible murder. Two murders that occurred. 0:17:03.720 --> 0:17:06.160 And what did this scene initially, Peter tell you about 0:17:06.920 --> 0:17:09.639 how the girls had died, what the killer had done. 0:17:10.280 --> 0:17:16.200 Killer had used a knife, would have to have been 0:17:16.280 --> 0:17:20.560 a big knife because of the defensive wounds in Susan 0:17:20.600 --> 0:17:28.240 Bartlett's arms. Susan Armstrong had massive, massive, multiple, multiple stab wounds, 0:17:30.720 --> 0:17:34.359 and it looked like there was no forced entry, so 0:17:35.600 --> 0:17:42.919 already it was starting to unfold. This was something quite unique, 0:17:43.440 --> 0:17:48.400 no forced entry. Two girls brutally murdered. Now, in those 0:17:48.480 --> 0:17:52.040 days you wouldn't see too many, and I don't recall 0:17:52.200 --> 0:17:56.680 those days too many brutal murders like these two. I mean, 0:17:56.680 --> 0:18:00.239 with time the internet, we'd see lots of lots of 0:18:00.280 --> 0:18:02.800 these things. But back in those days, back in nineteen 0:18:02.880 --> 0:18:08.960 seventy seven in Victoria, in Collingwood, that was one massive 0:18:09.600 --> 0:18:10.359 double murder. 0:18:12.480 --> 0:18:14.400 The fact that they found young Greg and his court 0:18:14.520 --> 0:18:18.680 having survived such an ordeal still amazes this veteran investigator. 0:18:19.520 --> 0:18:22.639 Well, we were both young parents, Graham and I and 0:18:22.640 --> 0:18:25.680 of course that was very disturbing. He had been there 0:18:25.800 --> 0:18:29.040 and if I recall, the temperatures were in excess of 0:18:29.119 --> 0:18:33.119 one hundred degrees. Now in Celsius, what are we talking, 0:18:33.200 --> 0:18:36.919 this is up over forty degrees. So he was in 0:18:36.960 --> 0:18:43.199 there totally totally exhausted, totally dehydrated, been the same nappy, 0:18:43.440 --> 0:18:50.600 and was quite surprising to me that he was still alive. So, 0:18:50.840 --> 0:18:54.399 I mean, at that age he obviously couldn't witness anything. 0:18:54.480 --> 0:18:57.919 But whether the killer missed him or whatever, I don't know, 0:18:58.080 --> 0:19:00.920 or killer as we would never know. I still to 0:19:00.960 --> 0:19:02.399 this day think it was only one person. 0:19:09.760 --> 0:19:12.600 Peter Hescock says the scene he and his colleagues encountered 0:19:12.600 --> 0:19:16.560 that morning was dire. Nevertheless, it revealed a lot about 0:19:16.600 --> 0:19:18.800 the murderer, and quite quickly. 0:19:19.080 --> 0:19:25.080 Well, if robbery was not a motive, the bathroom we 0:19:25.240 --> 0:19:29.959 now we learned straight away that the killer had stood 0:19:30.000 --> 0:19:33.600 in the bath and washed himself down with blood, because 0:19:33.640 --> 0:19:36.119 he would have been covered in blood. It would have 0:19:36.160 --> 0:19:38.159 been very, very brutal. 0:19:38.240 --> 0:19:38.919 So whether. 0:19:40.480 --> 0:19:43.600 He's done this to wash himself off forensics, or whether 0:19:43.640 --> 0:19:46.960 he's just done that as an instinctive, it's hard to know. 0:19:47.480 --> 0:19:49.560 There wasn't a lot of blood in there, but it 0:19:49.640 --> 0:19:52.120 was yeah, we could tell from going back there that 0:19:52.119 --> 0:19:54.840 that's what happened. Yes, it was very unusual when there's 0:19:54.880 --> 0:19:58.280 no DNA in those days, I mean blood types or something. 0:19:58.320 --> 0:20:01.080 I mean pretty we have a lot of people have 0:20:01.119 --> 0:20:05.200 got A or B or whatever. So that was there. 0:20:05.400 --> 0:20:08.159 That was obviously called for the forensics. But something that 0:20:08.240 --> 0:20:12.280 we did was took the plumbing apart and at the 0:20:12.320 --> 0:20:17.920 elbow there was pieces of bone. Now these were pieces 0:20:17.960 --> 0:20:21.960 of these defensive wounds that Susan Bartlett had put up. 0:20:22.200 --> 0:20:24.120 What you took the bath apart or you were under 0:20:24.160 --> 0:20:25.080 the under the house. 0:20:25.400 --> 0:20:29.120 Yeah, I personally wasn't there when that happened, but it was, yes, 0:20:29.160 --> 0:20:34.040 it was pulled apart. I actually had to escort the 0:20:34.160 --> 0:20:37.439 to deceased to the mortuary and I had to be 0:20:37.480 --> 0:20:42.879 present whilst the post mortems were undertaken and thereby we 0:20:42.880 --> 0:20:48.240 were given samples of their blood, hair, nails and for continuity. 0:20:48.440 --> 0:20:51.359 They then have to be conveyed back to the forensic 0:20:51.359 --> 0:20:55.359 science by one person to the other break continuity. So 0:20:55.440 --> 0:20:59.440 that was my job. So I was present and that's 0:20:59.720 --> 0:21:04.040 why I'm certain that I know who was murdered first. 0:21:04.840 --> 0:21:07.160 And talking about at the Morgue, Peter, I mean, how 0:21:07.160 --> 0:21:09.360 traumatic was that for you as a young detective. You're 0:21:09.359 --> 0:21:12.800 only thirty. From what you've said to me over the years, 0:21:13.040 --> 0:21:18.359 you were actually helping him take account of the number 0:21:18.440 --> 0:21:20.240 of times both women had been stabbed. 0:21:20.440 --> 0:21:24.399 Yeah, you would stand it's close to this table. You 0:21:24.440 --> 0:21:28.760 would stand there with a clipboard noting on a diagram 0:21:28.800 --> 0:21:33.480 of a female body where stab wounds were. It is traumatic, 0:21:33.920 --> 0:21:39.840 but we were taught and always emphasized by that pathologist 0:21:40.040 --> 0:21:45.639 that the exhibits that can help us. For instance, is 0:21:45.680 --> 0:21:51.439 the person right handed, is he left handed without uppercuts 0:21:52.400 --> 0:21:56.439 lower cuts, so he changed hands to do other wounds 0:21:56.440 --> 0:22:00.720 because there was strongly amount of stab wounds. And also 0:22:01.640 --> 0:22:06.280 was one killed earlier and then someone came back and 0:22:06.359 --> 0:22:09.240 killed the other one. Those I mean, it's quite basic 0:22:09.359 --> 0:22:14.320 stuff that unfolds very quickly. But you have to be 0:22:14.440 --> 0:22:17.400 there to know these things, and it's not theathologists job 0:22:18.000 --> 0:22:20.240 to work out these things, but they are very helpful. 0:22:20.800 --> 0:22:24.840 And these are things that when you interview someone only 0:22:24.880 --> 0:22:28.240 you will know if someone's telling lies and also tell 0:22:28.280 --> 0:22:31.879 if someone's just making it up or wanting to be famous, 0:22:31.920 --> 0:22:34.639 and that's happened, that's happened many times. 0:22:36.440 --> 0:22:39.560 So what did his time with pathologist James McNamara tell 0:22:39.600 --> 0:22:43.000 him about the Easy Street killer? Was he left or 0:22:43.080 --> 0:22:43.639 right handed? 0:22:44.480 --> 0:22:46.879 I'm thinking it was a right handed person that just 0:22:47.119 --> 0:22:49.280 he would have been a powerful unit. He would have 0:22:49.320 --> 0:22:54.520 been powerful because of the amount of stab wornds making 0:22:54.560 --> 0:22:59.399 sure that he killed them. And Susan Bartlett had put 0:22:59.480 --> 0:23:02.400 up a massive fight in the hallway, so she's heard 0:23:02.400 --> 0:23:04.960 the noise and come down, and that's why it makes 0:23:05.000 --> 0:23:10.119 sense someone's come in the front door. Susan Armstrong was 0:23:10.119 --> 0:23:12.040 reading a book, she had the light on. She's put 0:23:12.080 --> 0:23:14.520 the book down, the pages open, and just thrown the 0:23:14.520 --> 0:23:17.080 sheets back and hopped out to see who it was. 0:23:17.280 --> 0:23:20.920 And then she was struck right between leaving her bed 0:23:21.320 --> 0:23:24.880 very small house, of course, and before getting into the passageway. 0:23:25.520 --> 0:23:31.200 But she was moved further, we believe after she was dead. 0:23:31.480 --> 0:23:34.520 But then Susan Bartlett's come out of her room down 0:23:34.520 --> 0:23:38.240 to see what's going on, and that's when it's second 0:23:38.280 --> 0:23:41.800 murders occurred. But it would have been a lot harder. 0:23:42.080 --> 0:23:44.720 Susan Armstrong wouldn't known what was going to happen to her. 0:23:44.800 --> 0:23:47.440 She would have just met this person and that's why 0:23:47.480 --> 0:23:52.080 we always thought he personally thought must have been someone 0:23:52.080 --> 0:23:52.480 they knew. 0:23:54.520 --> 0:23:57.040 Peterhiscock is still goold by the time. He and his 0:23:57.080 --> 0:23:59.520 partner wasted early on in a case that was already 0:23:59.520 --> 0:24:02.399 getting caught as they tried to link the footprint on 0:24:02.480 --> 0:24:05.160 Susan's bed cover that was left by the first male 0:24:05.280 --> 0:24:08.679 visitor to the house after the women were killed. And 0:24:08.720 --> 0:24:12.639 then there was the newspaper dated that very day, January thirteenth, 0:24:12.920 --> 0:24:14.159 nineteen seventy seven. 0:24:15.359 --> 0:24:18.880 This paper was puzzling, we thought, Graham and I thought 0:24:18.920 --> 0:24:23.080 straight away that this offender has come back. He's come 0:24:23.160 --> 0:24:26.840 back to see his work or whatever. We just were puzzled. 0:24:29.520 --> 0:24:32.720 We spoke to the young policeman. There no nothing. So 0:24:32.800 --> 0:24:37.000