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Speaker 1: Hey, welcome to the All Ball Podcast. I'm your boy,

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Speaker 1: Doug Gotlie Man Man Man, are you gonna love this?

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Speaker 1: The all of this? Uh, Matt Mooney is, uh, we're

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Speaker 1: always seen in basketball, said a kid, right. He's a

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Speaker 1: kid from about forty five minutes outside of Chicago, Wakonda.

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Speaker 1: I swear to God, that's what's called different spelling what

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Speaker 1: Conda Chicago and I went to Notre Rain Prep and

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Speaker 1: his journey to the NBA to the Cleveland Cavaliers is

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Speaker 1: nothing shorter. For Markable, I want you to think about

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Speaker 1: this for a second. He had one scholarship offer out

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Speaker 1: of high school that was to go to the Air

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Speaker 1: Force Academy. But he didn't get to go to Air

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Speaker 1: Force right away to go to their prep school, which

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Speaker 1: is on the campus in Colorado Springs. I don't want

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Speaker 1: to give away what happened, but crazy story what happened.

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Speaker 1: Then he he go was prepped for a year, plays

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Speaker 1: there for a year, and then decides I want to

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Speaker 1: leave Air Force. He goes to the University of South

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Speaker 1: Dakota place for Craig Smith, who's now the head coach

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Speaker 1: at Utah State. Goes to South Dakota, sits out for

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Speaker 1: a year, then tears it up for two years, and

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Speaker 1: then he transfers again. Was close to going to Craighton,

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Speaker 1: decided to go to Texas Tech. And at Texas Tech

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Speaker 1: he had a dream season. They go to a national

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Speaker 1: championship game. They were tied with the ball out of

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Speaker 1: bounces underneath their own basket with a couple of seconds remaining,

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Speaker 1: and obviously they lost in overtime to Virginia. Then he

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Speaker 1: goes to the Hawks summer. I'll let him tell the story. Nonetheless,

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Speaker 1: it's a story of perseverance, of hard work, work ethic,

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Speaker 1: and self belief. Um, there's also a personal side to

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Speaker 1: it with his father. You're gonna love this, pot Um.

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Speaker 1: A couple of quick thoughts basketball wise, Obviously, college basketball

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Speaker 1: starting to come together. And it's interesting that we're talking

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Speaker 1: to Matt Money, who ended one of Glenzaga's dream seasons

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Speaker 1: that the preseason number one. I mean, think about this.

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Speaker 1: It's been twenty years now of Golenzaga dominance in college askedball,

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Speaker 1: but only recently they have they made deep runs or

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Speaker 1: deeper runs in the n s A Tournament final four,

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Speaker 1: the national Championship game a couple of years ago, which

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Speaker 1: they end up losing by one possession. So now like

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Speaker 1: Gonzaga has a legit shot to win it, to win

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Speaker 1: the whole thing, and that would be the last thing

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Speaker 1: to accotomplish the dominate the conference, dominator, conference tournament, set

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Speaker 1: one and done of the NBA. They're now a preseason

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Speaker 1: number one team in the country. They've been to a

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Speaker 1: Final four, been new national championship game. The only thing

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Speaker 1: left is to actually win that last game on Monday Night.

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Speaker 1: We'll see this year if they can do it. We'll

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Speaker 1: talk more about the teams. Baylor also right there as

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Speaker 1: a almost like a cod number one. Fascinating what Scott

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Speaker 1: Drew has been able to do. If you remember he

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Speaker 1: took over Dave Bliss was caught an audio tape putting

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Speaker 1: the blame on one of his players who was shot

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Speaker 1: dead by one of his other players. I mean, they

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Speaker 1: had recruited guys off campus, no scholarships this first year

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Speaker 1: to building Baylor into being an Elite eight team, several

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Speaker 1: times over losing the Duke a couple of questionable calls.

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Speaker 1: Could this be the year that Scott Drew lives the

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Speaker 1: impossible dream, gets to Final four or maybe wins the

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Speaker 1: national championship at Baylor's. That's kind of what's in front

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Speaker 1: of us with college basketball. The rest is a little

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Speaker 1: bit messy, right. We think we're a couple of weeks

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Speaker 1: away from college basketball starting, but the COVID numbers continue

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Speaker 1: to rise, the restrictions get a little bit tighter, and

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Speaker 1: we still don't have true clarity on how many of

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Speaker 1: these events will absolutely positively go off. There's gonna be

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Speaker 1: a season. What it looks like, I can't honestly tell you.

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Speaker 1: But the other part that's interesting is here we are

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Speaker 1: a week away from the NBA Draft, and how many

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Speaker 1: of these guys can you recall at the top of

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Speaker 1: your head. Now, many of you know that covering college

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Speaker 1: basketball a huge proponent of sport, but of the value

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Speaker 1: of the promotion of the sport. Now, I think, how

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Speaker 1: many these guys can you actually name? Because you didn't

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Speaker 1: see Anthony Elberts playing the n c term probably win't

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Speaker 1: of anyway, but you didn't see you name the player,

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Speaker 1: and you didn't uh the a choral kid from Auburn

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Speaker 1: will be a top seven pick. Didn't see him play,

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Speaker 1: not because of anything he did, but because of COVID.

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Speaker 1: It shows the value of the n c A Tournament,

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Speaker 1: So we'll get to some of that with Matt Mooney.

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Speaker 1: Last thing, boy, the NBA is in a pickle. They're

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Speaker 1: gonna start before Christmas, play those Christmas games. And that's

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Speaker 1: great for the Golden State Warriors, who also get a

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Speaker 1: little bit of tax relief with some of the CBA

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Speaker 1: rules that have been up put down. But what do

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Speaker 1: you do with Lebron James and what do you do

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Speaker 1: with the heat those teams that just got done playing

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Speaker 1: and now have such a limited offseason. My guess is

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Speaker 1: the Lebrons of the world will suddenly take a lot

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Speaker 1: more breaks, not just in December, in January, in the

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Speaker 1: February and slow rollout how much they played this NBA season.

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Speaker 1: All right, let's get to our discussion with that money.

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Speaker 1: All right, let's welcome in. He's uh Matt, Matt Mooney

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Speaker 1: joins us. I want to get to your life and

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Speaker 1: and and everything. But it's fascinating like this, just like

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Speaker 1: this is what I really want, like basketball, and I

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Speaker 1: think you're starting to you probably already know this and

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Speaker 1: you're starting to figure it out. There's so much connectivity

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Speaker 1: right Like it's it's interesting. My guaranty is the player

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Speaker 1: development coach. That was his term. His name is right there. Yeah. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so my garitty grew up in Orange County. When he

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Speaker 1: was just a little twarp, he was probably six seventh grade.

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Speaker 1: My dad used to have um a basketball academy workout

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Speaker 1: Sundays at Woodbridge High School in Irvine, California, and there

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Speaker 1: used to be this little kid and the dad was like,

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Speaker 1: this guy is gonna be a player. He wants to

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Speaker 1: be the next Gottlieb Mike Gary war forty four. Because

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Speaker 1: I was this guy and now he's he's your developmental

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Speaker 1: coach and he played at USC stud player good Year.

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Speaker 1: He's great. Isn't that funny that? Yeah, that's a no.

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Speaker 1: It is a small world. I heard that he was

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Speaker 1: out training Mike Brown's son, and then when Mike Brown

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Speaker 1: got the job here, he brought him on just because

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Speaker 1: you know, he uh he liked what he was doing.

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Speaker 1: But he's really good at what he does. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: it's it's really amazing. Um, Okay, where in Chicago did

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Speaker 1: you go up? So? I grew up in Wakonda. It's

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Speaker 1: uh forty five minutes northwest. What kinda man forever? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: now that's the joke people mate different spelling. Okay, So

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Speaker 1: it's it's forty five minutes from Chicago, which which direction northwest? Okay,

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Speaker 1: so that's like so that's not like glenn Brook North

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Speaker 1: and all that. That's past that, right past that. Have

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Speaker 1: you been out that way? Yeah? Yeah, I mean I

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Speaker 1: was born in Milwaukee, I spent I have friends a

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Speaker 1: lot of friends from from that part of around there

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Speaker 1: in Chicago. Whatever. Done some work there as well at

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Speaker 1: times is awesome, I mean. Okay, so your first memory

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Speaker 1: of basketball is where? What do you like? First memory?

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Speaker 1: What kind of park district? Uh? Just playing? Like I

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Speaker 1: think I was probably in kindergarten, first grade. My dad

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Speaker 1: was coaching. I know your dad was coaching, Uh you

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Speaker 1: growing up. I've listened to your stuff. My brother listens

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Speaker 1: to a lot of your stuff actually, Um, but my

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Speaker 1: dad was coaching kind of park district, you know, playing

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Speaker 1: on those eight foot goals and uh, you know, everybody

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Speaker 1: just runs to the ball type of thing and every

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Speaker 1: time you get it, you shoot it. That's probably what

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Speaker 1: I first memory. Okay. So then as you as you

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Speaker 1: grew up, were you only a ball guy? Did you

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Speaker 1: play baseball, football? Other sports? No? I played other sports,

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Speaker 1: but I loved basketball. Um and I was small. I

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Speaker 1: was real small, so like football. I love football. I

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Speaker 1: liked football, but I was like I was too skinny.

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Speaker 1: Uh So in baseball, I was pretty good at baseball.

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Speaker 1: I like soccer too, But around fifth grade I gave

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Speaker 1: everything up. I played football eighth grade, but fifth grade

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Speaker 1: I gave everything up because you know, baseball in the

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Speaker 1: summer conflicts with you, and uh I gave it up,

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Speaker 1: you know. And my dad was always trying to think, like,

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Speaker 1: all right, what's the best way we can get him

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Speaker 1: a scholarship, So he was trying to keep me in

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Speaker 1: baseball or other sports because he didn't know, you know.

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Speaker 1: So basketball ended up working out, but I I just

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Speaker 1: loved it. I I understand. So Okay, so you're like

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Speaker 1: fifth grade, sixth grade, You're you're little, and you're like, dad,

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Speaker 1: this is what I want to do. He wants to

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Speaker 1: like this is by the way, it's like a snapshot

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Speaker 1: of my life. My son's left hand. And I'm like, bro,

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Speaker 1: you ain't given up baseball. But he loves he loves

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Speaker 1: huh yeah, he loves he loves Hooper. But I don't know,

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Speaker 1: like I'm I'm smaller than you, and I don't know

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Speaker 1: if he's gonna beat my size. Um, so, uh were you?

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Speaker 1: Were you really good? Did you blossom? Like? Okay, middle

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Speaker 1: school type type age? Were you? How good were you?

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Speaker 1: I was good? Um, I was good in middle school

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Speaker 1: and high school was where you know, I just didn't hit.

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Speaker 1: I didn't hit my gross furred and you know I

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Speaker 1: was I was still good, but I wasn't You remember

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Speaker 1: how big you were when you entered high school? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: It was five five five five or five six. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so here's so here's my So I was five ft

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Speaker 1: tall at the end of eighth grade, five ft a

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Speaker 1: hundred five pounds. And my dad the whole year was like,

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Speaker 1: he's staying back because I grew late. He's gonna be late.

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Speaker 1: So I stayed back and end up I stayed in

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Speaker 1: the same school district with different school and then I

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Speaker 1: switched school district, school to high school. And I entered

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Speaker 1: high school at like five so fifteen months, I grew

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Speaker 1: nine inches and I was like and I was during

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Speaker 1: the year. I grew so much. I was terrible when

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Speaker 1: I was okay as as a freshman. So, uh, you're

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Speaker 1: a freshman. You played JV freshman team, like what will

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Speaker 1: we use a freshman? Well, so I ended up going

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Speaker 1: to high school like right on the north side of Chicago.

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Speaker 1: I went kind of far away because my dad was,

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Speaker 1: you know, trying to figure out where to where to

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Speaker 1: send me because we're trying to get a scholarship, right. Um,

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Speaker 1: So I went to play for tom Less Notre Dame

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Speaker 1: High School there on the north side, and I was

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Speaker 1: a basketball school. So it was just you know, I

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Speaker 1: was gonna be Uh that was the focus. And you know,

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Speaker 1: we we were going to play against kids in the

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Speaker 1: city better company Titian. So he sent me there, and uh,

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Speaker 1: I mean we were good. So I played sophomore as

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Speaker 1: a freshman, and then I played sophomore as a sophomore,

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Speaker 1: and I played varsity as a junior. I didn't really

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Speaker 1: even start my junior year until like halfway through. So, okay,

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Speaker 1: so in your senior year, how good were you? My

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Speaker 1: senior year? I was good. I mean we were we

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Speaker 1: were like top five, top ten in the state in Chicago.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's pretty good. And you know I was

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Speaker 1: our best player. Um. We didn't have any other Division

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Speaker 1: one guys. We had some talented guys. Uh, we had

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Speaker 1: some good players, some other college players. We had really

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Speaker 1: good like high school players. But my senior year, I

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Speaker 1: think my my senior I average almost twenty a game,

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Speaker 1: you know, and five something something along those lines. But

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Speaker 1: I wasn't All state or anything. What are you program?

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Speaker 1: Shot down? Diablos? Who's on the team? Um? You know

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Speaker 1: nobody that you would know, you know, Chris A Breath.

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Speaker 1: He ended up going Juco and then went to Sam

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Speaker 1: Houston State. Uh, Josh daus when of my team end

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Speaker 1: up playing at with me at the University of South Dakota.

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Speaker 1: We had a little point guard who played Division two ari.

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Speaker 1: We were you know. We we had a dude, Gavin Shilling,

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Speaker 1: who left our team end up playing at Michigan State,

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Speaker 1: but he went to Mcurvan Fire. My coach, Chuck Demons,

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Speaker 1: he just put together some guys in the city and

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Speaker 1: made a team and we weren't sponsored or anything like that.

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Speaker 1: So then, um, how did so then from there you

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Speaker 1: went to did you got the Air Force? Prep? Would

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Speaker 1: you got the Air Force? Right away? I went to

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Speaker 1: Prep because I broke my ankle out of high school.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, I was around for a little while in

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Speaker 1: college out of high school, right before I was gonna

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Speaker 1: go to the uh to the academy. I was supposed

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Speaker 1: to just go to the academy. And I was being stupid.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I wasn't being stupid, but I was, what

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Speaker 1: were you doing? I was being stupid. I was I

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Speaker 1: was right the bike. You know, I was trying to

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Speaker 1: get ready for basic training and I had like a

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Speaker 1: something wrong with my foot. So the doctor told me

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Speaker 1: just just ride a bike to stay in shape. So

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Speaker 1: it's raining outside and me and my brother we we

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Speaker 1: grab our we grab our bikes, and we're going for

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Speaker 1: a bike ride. And we get to this, uh, this trail.

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Speaker 1: It's like a one mile loop, and you know, I'm

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Speaker 1: pretty competitive, and I'm like, all right, Joe, you go,

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Speaker 1: you go left, I'm gonna go right. We're gonna race.

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Speaker 1: The first one to get back here wins. So I

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Speaker 1: start going I'm going way too fast. We got these

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Speaker 1: really old bikes that you know, they're not very good.

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Speaker 1: We we don't bike ever, and uh, I start going

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Speaker 1: down this hill and you know, I get to the

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Speaker 1: bottom of the hill, my back tires slips out. I

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Speaker 1: smashed my foot in the ground, break my ankle. So

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Speaker 1: then air Force was like all right, you can't do

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Speaker 1: basic training with the busted ankle. So they sent me

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Speaker 1: to the press school, who recouged you to Air Force. Uh,

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Speaker 1: Steve Snell and Dave Pulpovic coach PIO. So when they

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Speaker 1: came to your house, was or any was there ever

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Speaker 1: a point where like, I do not want to be

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Speaker 1: in the Air Force. So I, I know, you want

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Speaker 1: to play hoop and I've called games air Force, like

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Speaker 1: I actually kind of dig the place. It's beautiful, and

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Speaker 1: like you want to hoop. You want to hoop, but

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Speaker 1: they're like, hey, by the way, afterwards, you're gonna have

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Speaker 1: to be in the Air Force. Although air Force is

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Speaker 1: kind of cool, the chance of maybe fly a plane.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. No, I never wanted to be in

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Speaker 1: the military. It wasn't like, uh you know, I didn't

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Speaker 1: come from a military family. I didn't want to fly plane.

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Speaker 1: But that was my only Division one offer, and you

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Speaker 1: know my dream was always Division one. So I went

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Speaker 1: on a visit. They never came to my house, but

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Speaker 1: I went on the visit, and uh, you know, I

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Speaker 1: like the facilities, I like the coaching staff, I like

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Speaker 1: coach p So I just decided, you know, this is

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Speaker 1: if this is what I gotta do to to fulfill

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Speaker 1: my dream of Division one. Then I'm gonna do it.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna go through the basic training and all the

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Speaker 1: military and all that stuff. And uh so I took it.

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Speaker 1: And plus they're in the Mountain West, which is a

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Speaker 1: good league, and he's a good league. It was really

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Speaker 1: a good league at the time. Yeah, not not as good,

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Speaker 1: not as good when you left it was. And that's

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Speaker 1: why I got bad. Was you left? Really that's that's

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Speaker 1: that's good. Okay. So so you you can't do basic,

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Speaker 1: you go and now all of a sudden, you're an

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Speaker 1: Air Force prep now for people who don't know to

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Speaker 1: prep school is literally on the same campus, right like

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Speaker 1: where you guys have your own dorms or you're intermingled

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Speaker 1: with with regular cardads. Like what's that existence? Like, no,

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Speaker 1: I'm surprised you know that that much about it. It's uh,

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Speaker 1: it's on the base and it's like three miles away

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Speaker 1: from the academy. And then we're I mean we're in

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Speaker 1: the military. We had to do basic training as well,

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Speaker 1: but they allowed me to do it with the broken leg,

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Speaker 1: and uh it was hardening. It was hard, well, hardest

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Speaker 1: things hardest to do, hardest thing I had to do.

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Speaker 1: Yeah there, Yeah, well, so I went through three weeks

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Speaker 1: of basic training at the prep to go through that

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Speaker 1: school year and then yeah, that year was tough, but

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Speaker 1: and I only played about half the season because I

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Speaker 1: was still getting healthy. And then the next year I

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Speaker 1: went through basic training again for six weeks. But the

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Speaker 1: hardest thing you have to do is you just the thing.

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Speaker 1: The thing about Air Force and like the military and

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Speaker 1: basic training is like you're constantly doing things you don't

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Speaker 1: want to do. When you don't want to do them,

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Speaker 1: you know, you just have no say, you just got

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Speaker 1: to do it. And you know you're up at four

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Speaker 1: thirty in the morning and first thing you're doing, you know,

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Speaker 1: sirens are going off, beating on the door, and you're

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Speaker 1: just going for like a ten mile run and you're

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Speaker 1: doing pushups, and you know, there was a time, there

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Speaker 1: was a time we literally you're not gonna believe this,

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Speaker 1: people probably are gonna believe this, but we did a

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Speaker 1: hundred my squadron, we did a d twenty push ups

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Speaker 1: in a row without stopping. Like the forum Pride wasn't great,

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Speaker 1: but I never would have thought I could do that,

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Speaker 1: and it's just like you push yourself past your your

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Speaker 1: limits mentally you're you're a lot stronger than you realize.

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Speaker 1: It's more it's one of those if you can do this,

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Speaker 1: there's nothing you can't do. Right, It's doesn't I mean

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Speaker 1: that's look in no way does it compared to what

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Speaker 1: does it said? It's a pleave in the army? What

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Speaker 1: does it call when you're a freshman at at a

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Speaker 1: deer force? Well, I can't believe. I can't think of

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Speaker 1: it right now. You can't remember. Oh man, it's gonna

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Speaker 1: come to me during this conversation. You will, okay. So um,

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Speaker 1: But like so when I went to Oklahoma State, we

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Speaker 1: we decided with my first time running, I get there,

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Speaker 1: it's like August and August in Oklahoma's hot at balls, right,

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Speaker 1: So we're running and we had we had to run

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Speaker 1: from the weight room to the track, which is like

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Speaker 1: a half mile, like just a jog to warm up,

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Speaker 1: and then we did our sprints and stuff on the

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Speaker 1: track and then we run back, right remember, and we

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Speaker 1: were running back, dudes, you're just thrown up. And I

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Speaker 1: was like, and I told coach, I was like, hey man,

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Speaker 1: it is not safe. Is a hundred degrees and you

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Speaker 1: got some big dude. He's like, all right, were you

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Speaker 1: running six? And the more ring We're like okay. So

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Speaker 1: it kind of became our thing, and it's like, dude,

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Speaker 1: And the worst part this is what I'm interested in, right,

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Speaker 1: and I guess I don't know. They do the bugle whatever.

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Speaker 1: The worst part is not getting up. It's the fear

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Speaker 1: of not waking up, which wakes you up, like at

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Speaker 1: three in the morning, at four in the morning, at

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Speaker 1: four three in the morning, at five in the morning,

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Speaker 1: and five through Oh ship, Now I gotta get up, right,

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Speaker 1: So how do you how do you overcome that? The

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Speaker 1: idea it's not the oversleeping, because everybody gets up and

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Speaker 1: waits up, but it's the mindset of, oh God, I

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Speaker 1: can't oversleep or then there's going to be hell to pay.

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Speaker 1: How do you overcome it? When it where an air force? Yes, well,

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Speaker 1: in basic training you have no choice like that. You

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Speaker 1: don't have your phone, so they're banging and sirens are

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Speaker 1: going off. But then in the school year, yeah, if

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Speaker 1: you if you do not wake up, what they do

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Speaker 1: is they just punish everybody else and they may keep

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Speaker 1: staying there and watch so you feel terrible about it. Um.

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Speaker 1: I I don't know if I ever missed it because

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Speaker 1: I was so afraid of not waking up. I was

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Speaker 1: already in trouble. You know. They didn't like me, you

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Speaker 1: know from the jump there, so I knew, like I

359
00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:15,320
Speaker 1: can't miss this. Um. And it's crazy like how our

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Speaker 1: bodies work. We just kind of automatically wake up. But

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Speaker 1: nowadays we got the cell phones and we can set

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Speaker 1: the alarms. So I don't think I ever missed one.

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Speaker 1: What what do you remember about playing there? Uh, Princeton offense. Heah,

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Speaker 1: I don't like it. I didn't enjoy the Princeton Uh.

365
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Speaker 1: And I like and I just you know, I've had

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Speaker 1: David on the pod, like David gil okay and and

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Speaker 1: and so. But and this goes back to I used

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Speaker 1: to cover Air Force when because Delik was there and

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Speaker 1: before him when uh, when Chris Mooney was the head

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Speaker 1: coach there. I guess Mooney's my guy. He's been on

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Speaker 1: the pod and he's a Princeton guy. And I just

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Speaker 1: that's just not my jam. It's just it's it's it's

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Speaker 1: so um like I've always I've always been I always

374
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Speaker 1: think it's funny that guys that run Princeton like they

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Speaker 1: can't even function in normal pickup basketball because they're so

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Speaker 1: kind of programmed to elbow sin. You know, when you

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Speaker 1: when you if you've been in a couple of years,

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Speaker 1: you can play you can play basketball, but you struggle

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Speaker 1: to play basketball sometimes. Yeah, And that's the hard thing

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Speaker 1: with the Prince. And I agree with you. I don't

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Speaker 1: want to bass the Princeton or Coach p. Know, Coach

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Speaker 1: pe was a good coach and he had some success

383
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Speaker 1: over there, um, but it takes away your instincts. Like basketball,

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Speaker 1: the thing that I love about the game is the

385
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Speaker 1: creativity that you can, you know, use your instincts and

386
00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:41,280
Speaker 1: read and react to what the defense does. With the Princeton,

387
00:19:41,320 --> 00:19:46,120
Speaker 1: it's just already kind of premeditated. And I didn't enjoy it, um,

388
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Speaker 1: you know, and I think there's a way to run

389
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Speaker 1: it with a little bit more Dully's that's what they

390
00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:57,320
Speaker 1: call you a duelli right now now, it's not a dutey,

391
00:19:57,800 --> 00:20:03,240
Speaker 1: that's what it says. Just uh is it a dutey Yeah, yeah,

392
00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:08,960
Speaker 1: which means like servant. It's I need a text. One

393
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Speaker 1: of my guys. I can't believe I can think about

394
00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:15,159
Speaker 1: it's not a plea plea of his army telling you

395
00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:21,680
Speaker 1: is a duey anyway, it's not huh, it's not. We

396
00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:25,600
Speaker 1: were cadets, but they call us something else. How how

397
00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:28,560
Speaker 1: did you play it? One or two years? One year?

398
00:20:29,359 --> 00:20:33,400
Speaker 1: So you're there two years? Right, you're in the Springs

399
00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:36,920
Speaker 1: for two years? What's the decision like to leave? Like

400
00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:41,040
Speaker 1: to take me through? How was it hard? Did you

401
00:20:41,119 --> 00:20:44,320
Speaker 1: go see coach p did you text him? Did you

402
00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:46,639
Speaker 1: go sit down face to face? Like what what was

403
00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:50,399
Speaker 1: taking me through the experience? Yeah? I don't know what

404
00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:53,040
Speaker 1: I mean, it was it was a very tough decision. Um.

405
00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:58,800
Speaker 1: You know, because here's here's the the thought process of

406
00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:00,520
Speaker 1: people who get into the accoun at me because so

407
00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:02,239
Speaker 1: many people try to get in. It's like it's your

408
00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:05,120
Speaker 1: ticket if you graduate from there. You know, the saying

409
00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:07,920
Speaker 1: is you work hard for four years, you have fun

410
00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:09,800
Speaker 1: for forty And they say, you know, if you go

411
00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:11,960
Speaker 1: to another school, you have fun for four years and

412
00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:15,640
Speaker 1: you work hard for forty. That's kind of the mantra um.

413
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Speaker 1: So like everybody there, it's like, okay, once you get

414
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Speaker 1: in there, you might hate it there, but it's your

415
00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:23,239
Speaker 1: ticket because if you graduate you know, you do your

416
00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:25,600
Speaker 1: time in the Air Force, you're set for life. You're

417
00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:29,360
Speaker 1: set great school, great reputation, you set get any job

418
00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:33,119
Speaker 1: you want when you're done. And that's kind of it

419
00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:35,159
Speaker 1: keeps a lot of guys there who don't want to

420
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Speaker 1: be there. And I just kind of got that out

421
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Speaker 1: of my head. It's like, I don't have to stay

422
00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:41,520
Speaker 1: here to be successful no matter which way I go

423
00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:44,000
Speaker 1: with hoops or whatever I do. And I didn't know

424
00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:48,680
Speaker 1: like playing professionally was going to be You're an option

425
00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:50,800
Speaker 1: at the time, but I knew I wanted to see

426
00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:52,560
Speaker 1: how far I could go with the game of basketball,

427
00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:56,399
Speaker 1: because that was the hard part there too, was uh

428
00:21:56,520 --> 00:21:59,200
Speaker 1: you know, you had limited time to focus on hoops.

429
00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:03,359
Speaker 1: Um it was military and school was was your priorities.

430
00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:06,520
Speaker 1: But I had to sit down with coach Pete before

431
00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:09,200
Speaker 1: spring break because we get a week off to go

432
00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:11,320
Speaker 1: home for spring break. I had to sit down with

433
00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:13,399
Speaker 1: him and just told them, you know, my frustrations this

434
00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:18,600
Speaker 1: and dead and um you know, a long story short,

435
00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:27,080
Speaker 1: I just wasn't happy there, and uh, you know, it

436
00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:30,120
Speaker 1: was a tough year for me when when it came out,

437
00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:31,679
Speaker 1: it came out that you had alleged that you were

438
00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:35,800
Speaker 1: bullied there, right right, Yeah, yeah, that made things way

439
00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:38,240
Speaker 1: worse because I talked about I talked to some guy

440
00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:41,720
Speaker 1: and I just said, you know, bullying and stuff happens here, um,

441
00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:46,760
Speaker 1: and it's just part of the system, you know, the upperclassmen,

442
00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:50,000
Speaker 1: like you're an underclassman. It's like the in the military.

443
00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:52,639
Speaker 1: You know, it's like you have to listen to somebody

444
00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:55,000
Speaker 1: who ranks higher than you. So if they tell you

445
00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:57,239
Speaker 1: to do anything, they want to do anything too. It's

446
00:22:57,280 --> 00:22:59,520
Speaker 1: it's like, okay, like upper class would come in my room,

447
00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:01,600
Speaker 1: They'll be like, right, you know, your room's dirty, and

448
00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:03,040
Speaker 1: then they just throw my bed on the floor and

449
00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:05,080
Speaker 1: throw some clothes out on the floor, and then I

450
00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:08,200
Speaker 1: gotta clean it all up to like the proper standards

451
00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:10,399
Speaker 1: and fold my clothes ten by ten. And it's like

452
00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:13,840
Speaker 1: that stuff would happen, and it's just um, I mean,

453
00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:16,280
Speaker 1: I guess it's part of it, but it's it would

454
00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:18,720
Speaker 1: happen to me in my roommate more than I guess

455
00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:20,760
Speaker 1: I guess. Here's the here's the question I've I kind

456
00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:24,400
Speaker 1: of wonder the picture painting, which is you're a very

457
00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:27,359
Speaker 1: religious guy. Religion is very important to you and air

458
00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:31,480
Speaker 1: Force he's a place where it has always been. It's

459
00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:33,400
Speaker 1: it's kind of come out that it's the very there's

460
00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:36,920
Speaker 1: a lot of very very Christian beliefs, and there's a

461
00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:38,920
Speaker 1: lot of people that are at least alleged to be

462
00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:41,960
Speaker 1: very religious there. Doesn't that go counter to the idea

463
00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:44,960
Speaker 1: of throwing somebody's stuff all out on the floor and

464
00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:49,119
Speaker 1: treating them like dirt just because they're a freshmen. Well, first,

465
00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:52,240
Speaker 1: a couple of things. One, you know, I don't want

466
00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:54,000
Speaker 1: to talk bad about air Force is part of like

467
00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:56,320
Speaker 1: you know, it's part of the process and training and

468
00:23:56,400 --> 00:24:00,159
Speaker 1: getting making guys tougher mentally and physically. And I there

469
00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:02,440
Speaker 1: are some people there who abuse their power, and that

470
00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:05,720
Speaker 1: that happens in any line of work you're in. But

471
00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:07,879
Speaker 1: also there's a lot of great people there. So like

472
00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:10,480
Speaker 1: you're saying, it's Christian and good people and no matter

473
00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:13,000
Speaker 1: what they believe, good people. Then the third thing I

474
00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:15,159
Speaker 1: would just say, it's like I'm not a you know,

475
00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:17,440
Speaker 1: it's hard to explain, but I wouldn't say I'm a

476
00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:20,920
Speaker 1: religious person. I just I'm more of a relational you know,

477
00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:24,639
Speaker 1: I I'm working on my relationship with God. You know,

478
00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:27,840
Speaker 1: religion is following us out of rules and you know

479
00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:30,840
Speaker 1: you got to do these things, uh checking off the

480
00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:34,920
Speaker 1: boxes and that. But I'm more of a relational persona

481
00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:37,240
Speaker 1: we look at it. Okay. So yeah you had it.

482
00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:40,720
Speaker 1: You had a buddy at AU teammate at South Dakota,

483
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:44,760
Speaker 1: right you you're not you're going to transfer and he

484
00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:47,879
Speaker 1: wasn't there yet. Huh, he was not there yet. He

485
00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:51,000
Speaker 1: was you're but you're not, You're going to transfer. Okay,

486
00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:52,640
Speaker 1: But it wasn't like you killed it an air force,

487
00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:56,359
Speaker 1: no disrespect. Right, you play time, you shot well, you

488
00:24:56,440 --> 00:25:01,120
Speaker 1: guys weren't good. Um, okay, know how did you get

489
00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:04,920
Speaker 1: to How did you get to play at South Dakota. Yeah,

490
00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:06,480
Speaker 1: they were like the first school to call me, I

491
00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:11,719
Speaker 1: think them, and uh maybe I'm not sure. They were

492
00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:13,399
Speaker 1: like one of the first schools to call me. And

493
00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:17,720
Speaker 1: coach Hansen was the assistant there. It's my guy, and

494
00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:21,359
Speaker 1: you know, coach Smith had just got there. You know,

495
00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:23,840
Speaker 1: I was fortunate enough to play for like two of

496
00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:27,080
Speaker 1: the best coaches in college basketball, Smith and Beard. But anyway,

497
00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:32,680
Speaker 1: Smith was there and they were building brand new facilities there.

498
00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:34,800
Speaker 1: It was a little bit closer to home. You know both.

499
00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:38,600
Speaker 1: My family was in the Chicago area, so that was

500
00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:42,800
Speaker 1: like a seven eight hour drive, and that the Summit League.

501
00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:45,520
Speaker 1: There's some school like Indiana and you need Western Illinois

502
00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:49,159
Speaker 1: in the Summit League. No, they're they're I don't know

503
00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:51,200
Speaker 1: what league there. I e p U I I think

504
00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:54,720
Speaker 1: is right now. They used to be who we uh POI.

505
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:59,080
Speaker 1: But you know, honestly, it just was it was the coaches.

506
00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:02,080
Speaker 1: I I visited cold Oh it's cold Gate. It came

507
00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:04,600
Speaker 1: down to Colgate in South Dakota. And I really liked

508
00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:06,879
Speaker 1: the guys over at cold Gate. And you know, my

509
00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:10,159
Speaker 1: dad is kind of like my uh, you know, my

510
00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:13,920
Speaker 1: basketball mentor um, and he really wanted me to go

511
00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:17,159
Speaker 1: to Coldgate. And so it was really hard for me.

512
00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:18,440
Speaker 1: I was like, man, I don't really want to go

513
00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:21,440
Speaker 1: out here a small town out in New York and

514
00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:26,560
Speaker 1: pick South Dakota and said, I just you know, right right,

515
00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:30,440
Speaker 1: but hey, I love South Dakota. I'm not saying you

516
00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:32,879
Speaker 1: don't like I'm okay, So South University South Dakota is

517
00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:36,200
Speaker 1: located where it's in Vermillion, it's like an hour south

518
00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:42,080
Speaker 1: of Sioux Falls. Okay, how many people in Vermllion. But

519
00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:44,280
Speaker 1: that's the thing. Colgate was even smaller. Cold was like

520
00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:46,679
Speaker 1: three thousand people. Know, and I know all those schools

521
00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:49,399
Speaker 1: in the Patriot League are like that, great schools, a

522
00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:52,320
Speaker 1: ton of fun on campus, nothing to do outside of that.

523
00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:54,919
Speaker 1: Uh South Dakota, how many people? How many people? How

524
00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:59,840
Speaker 1: many students? Okay, it just came down to look, I

525
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:02,600
Speaker 1: love the coaches at Colgate, and I love the guys

526
00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:05,800
Speaker 1: in South Dakota. But yeah, he is good. He's good.

527
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:08,879
Speaker 1: He uh he was a good player too, and I

528
00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:10,399
Speaker 1: think that would have been a good fit for me too,

529
00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:13,119
Speaker 1: you know. But I just I really like coach Hansen

530
00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:15,560
Speaker 1: and Coach Smith, and I felt like they were building

531
00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:19,280
Speaker 1: something there. Uh. So I decided on that I want

532
00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:21,960
Speaker 1: to do something. Normally I do this, I like to

533
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:24,600
Speaker 1: do it in chronological core, but I won't stop for

534
00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:27,080
Speaker 1: one second. And I want you to think about something. Okay,

535
00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:31,120
Speaker 1: you leave Air Force, you're sitting out at South Dakota.

536
00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:34,119
Speaker 1: If I would have told you at that moment that

537
00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:36,879
Speaker 1: you would be a member of the Cleveland Cavaliers in

538
00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:43,480
Speaker 1: the NBA, what percentage of you would have liked mm hmmm.

539
00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:49,280
Speaker 1: I don't know, man. I always That's why I mean

540
00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:53,200
Speaker 1: I wouldn't believe you. I wouldn't believe you, but I

541
00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:56,680
Speaker 1: always but you might have somewhere, but people around you

542
00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:59,800
Speaker 1: have been like no. It was something I could never say.

543
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:02,240
Speaker 1: It was something internally I felt like, man, I can

544
00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:04,320
Speaker 1: get there. I can get that. I just need a

545
00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:07,640
Speaker 1: shot I needed and I need to keep getting better.

546
00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:10,440
Speaker 1: But I felt like I can get there one day. Um,

547
00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:13,680
Speaker 1: But it was I knew it was a small possibility,

548
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:15,040
Speaker 1: like if I was gonna get there, it was gonna

549
00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:18,640
Speaker 1: have to be uh, you know, take everything I had

550
00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:20,680
Speaker 1: in me, and you know, I'm gonna have to catch

551
00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:22,639
Speaker 1: some brakes along the way. So you sit out in

552
00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:26,840
Speaker 1: South Dakota, Okay, and you transfer what was that You're like,

553
00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:29,760
Speaker 1: for you like, this is another year sitting out, another

554
00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:33,639
Speaker 1: year not hoping. What what were you just in the

555
00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:35,800
Speaker 1: gym all the time? Was it tough for you mentally?

556
00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:39,040
Speaker 1: What was that You're like, Yeah, that's where that was

557
00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:43,120
Speaker 1: a tough year. Um for me, just I had some

558
00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:45,080
Speaker 1: things going on with my family and then not being

559
00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:47,080
Speaker 1: I tried to get a waiver, didn't get the waivers.

560
00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:50,080
Speaker 1: So then when that news came in and uh, you know,

561
00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:51,720
Speaker 1: I was just trying to find my way. I was like, man,

562
00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:54,200
Speaker 1: I had an injury and played one year and I

563
00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:57,680
Speaker 1: had to sit out, and um, so I just was

564
00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:00,560
Speaker 1: in the gym all the time, and uh, me and

565
00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:02,920
Speaker 1: coach Hansen and coach g and I would be in

566
00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:05,240
Speaker 1: there in the morning before class and practice, and I

567
00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:09,360
Speaker 1: go back at night and pretty much every day and uh,

568
00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:12,400
Speaker 1: you know, we just focused on pretty much three things.

569
00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:16,560
Speaker 1: We focused on, Uh, shots off the move, you know,

570
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:20,680
Speaker 1: one or two dribble pull ups, and shots off the catch.

571
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:23,680
Speaker 1: Like that's all I drilled. Um, just really trying to

572
00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:27,880
Speaker 1: get good at those those things. And you know, it

573
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:30,520
Speaker 1: was it was a long year for sure, but it

574
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:33,160
Speaker 1: was looking back, it might have been the most important

575
00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:36,480
Speaker 1: year of my college just because I got to really

576
00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:40,400
Speaker 1: improve on my game for that year. Now, all of

577
00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:43,200
Speaker 1: a sudden, you're like, you you have the gift of

578
00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:46,320
Speaker 1: having played some Division one basketball, You're a little bit older,

579
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:48,440
Speaker 1: your bodies kind of filled out, you mature, and you

580
00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:50,680
Speaker 1: had a year of working just on your game with

581
00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:53,680
Speaker 1: those coaches. All right. Now, Now, what was that first

582
00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:58,480
Speaker 1: year like playing in South Dakota. It was hard getting

583
00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:00,200
Speaker 1: into it. The first half of the season was not

584
00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:03,560
Speaker 1: very good. I was I was our leading score. But

585
00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:06,640
Speaker 1: I was inefficient. And you know at South Dakota and

586
00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:08,800
Speaker 1: now I played primarily point guard. Over there, I was

587
00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:12,680
Speaker 1: playing the two, and uh, you know I was I

588
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:15,080
Speaker 1: was really struggling. I remember halfway through the season, I

589
00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:17,800
Speaker 1: sat down with coach Smith and we had it. We

590
00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:20,600
Speaker 1: had to talk and uh, I was a coach, just

591
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:23,960
Speaker 1: just give me that green light. I'm not gonna let

592
00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:26,720
Speaker 1: you down. Just give me that green light, just because

593
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:28,400
Speaker 1: I didn't feel it from him. And you know, I

594
00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:33,200
Speaker 1: wasn't playing very well. We were solid, but um, you know,

595
00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:34,800
Speaker 1: he's like, all right, I'll give you that green light,

596
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:37,280
Speaker 1: but if you if you mess up, and you know,

597
00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:40,280
Speaker 1: I gotta go with somebody else type of thing. And

598
00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:42,760
Speaker 1: he gave me the green light and gave me more,

599
00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:44,560
Speaker 1: you know, ran more plays for me and gave me

600
00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:47,040
Speaker 1: that confidence. And the second half of the season, I

601
00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:52,320
Speaker 1: you know, played played unbelievable. Um, not unbelievable. I played well,

602
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:57,160
Speaker 1: and we won the league and uh, you know, we

603
00:30:57,240 --> 00:30:59,320
Speaker 1: had a really good season. We we won our league,

604
00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:01,800
Speaker 1: but we lost on a buzzer beater in the conference tournament.

605
00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:03,479
Speaker 1: You know how it is with the mid major, it's

606
00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:07,120
Speaker 1: brutal and what I'm looking at the stats. I'm just

607
00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:08,720
Speaker 1: you know, I'm looking at the stats of that game.

608
00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:12,680
Speaker 1: What do you remember which game? And I t game No,

609
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:15,080
Speaker 1: the the end of season game, the one that ended

610
00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:18,040
Speaker 1: your the one that ended ended that year. In the

611
00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:21,920
Speaker 1: conference tournament, Well, I remember I played pretty well. I

612
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:26,040
Speaker 1: mean I was, um, I think I had thirty or

613
00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:30,160
Speaker 1: so and I had a shot. What happened was I

614
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:33,160
Speaker 1: had a shot in the corner with like twenty seconds

615
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:35,520
Speaker 1: left to put us up by three, and I thought

616
00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:37,480
Speaker 1: that was it. You know, it was a tough shot.

617
00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:41,280
Speaker 1: I thought like, okay, we're going And then Mike Tom

618
00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:42,960
Speaker 1: I don't know if you remember Mike Dom you probably

619
00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:46,800
Speaker 1: do my basketball. Yeah, yeah, good, really good college player.

620
00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:49,200
Speaker 1: He came down and a big guy followed him. He

621
00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:51,520
Speaker 1: went like, we followed him right away. He went to

622
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:53,960
Speaker 1: the free throw line, made both an hour, up one,

623
00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:57,560
Speaker 1: and then they filed uh one of our guys, a

624
00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:00,120
Speaker 1: freshman who was a really solid player, but he over

625
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:02,480
Speaker 1: to the line and missed the one and one star

626
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:04,920
Speaker 1: up one, and they had this dude, this point guard.

627
00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:06,960
Speaker 1: We knew they were trying to get the ball to down,

628
00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:10,520
Speaker 1: so we were, you know, trying to not let him

629
00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:12,760
Speaker 1: get in the point guard is pulled up and hit

630
00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:15,760
Speaker 1: the shot at you know, with point nine seconds left.

631
00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:19,600
Speaker 1: That was it. And uh, that was really hard to

632
00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:22,560
Speaker 1: deal with because like my dream was Division one, but

633
00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:24,200
Speaker 1: my dream was n C A tournament. I mean I

634
00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:27,720
Speaker 1: just kept school tournament when I was a kid. Yes,

635
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:34,880
Speaker 1: And then okay, so I think think about that heartbreak

636
00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:38,360
Speaker 1: and then like you, I'm sure at the time, you're like,

637
00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:40,960
Speaker 1: I'm never that's not not gonna happen for me. You

638
00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:45,400
Speaker 1: fast forward two years later and you're in the final four, right,

639
00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:49,440
Speaker 1: Like that's it is, like your path so interesting? Okay,

640
00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:51,520
Speaker 1: so you have a second year. Next year you played

641
00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:56,680
Speaker 1: in the c B. I yeah, yeah, you get done.

642
00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:01,479
Speaker 1: Mm hmm. Coach Smith is gonna e to Utah State, right,

643
00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:04,640
Speaker 1: did you know you were gonna You're gonna grab transfer

644
00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:07,360
Speaker 1: at that point? At that point you're like, I'm I'm

645
00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:09,840
Speaker 1: playing really well, I can graduate. Did when did when

646
00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:11,920
Speaker 1: did it? When did it happen that you? I want

647
00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:15,040
Speaker 1: to grab transfer and go somewhere bigger. So obviously that

648
00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:18,080
Speaker 1: was on my mind, but I think I was gonna

649
00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:20,840
Speaker 1: stay with Smith. You know, we because we didn't get

650
00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:23,080
Speaker 1: to the tournament. I loved my teammates there, I love

651
00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:25,720
Speaker 1: the university. But I was getting a little bit older,

652
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:28,200
Speaker 1: you know, I was getting almost twenty three. I think,

653
00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:33,120
Speaker 1: um trying to remember that year. But I was like,

654
00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:36,000
Speaker 1: all right, do I stay here at South Dakota, try

655
00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:38,360
Speaker 1: to get to the tournament, finish what we started, or

656
00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:41,360
Speaker 1: do I go somewhere bigger, take a chance on myself,

657
00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:44,280
Speaker 1: try to get some exposure. But the risk there is

658
00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:47,360
Speaker 1: you go somewhere bigger and you don't play. Well. Now

659
00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:51,280
Speaker 1: I got nothing, you know, unless you have what what

660
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:53,800
Speaker 1: they don't tell what, what people don't realize is like

661
00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:56,520
Speaker 1: if you stayed the South Dakota, Okay, you didn't make

662
00:33:56,560 --> 00:33:59,600
Speaker 1: the tournament, you your legend there, you could coach there,

663
00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:01,240
Speaker 1: you brought in case, you live there. You do whatever.

664
00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:04,160
Speaker 1: Dudes that transfer that second time you kind of if

665
00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:06,320
Speaker 1: it doesn't work out, Like for you it worked out great,

666
00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:09,080
Speaker 1: But for most people, you're kind of a man without

667
00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:12,080
Speaker 1: a home. You know, you don't have you get back

668
00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:15,319
Speaker 1: to alumni games when you played, when you were at

669
00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:18,080
Speaker 1: school for nine months, you know what I mean? Yeah,

670
00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:19,319
Speaker 1: I know you hit it on the head. And that's

671
00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:20,719
Speaker 1: something I thought about a lot. Was like I don't

672
00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:23,200
Speaker 1: have a legacy anywhere. You know, I don't have a legacy.

673
00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:25,120
Speaker 1: I don't have somewhere I can come back to, and

674
00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:27,080
Speaker 1: like I love South Dakota, I was like, man, I

675
00:34:27,160 --> 00:34:28,800
Speaker 1: probably won't be able to come back to here anymore

676
00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:33,359
Speaker 1: if I leave. Um. But you know, I talked about,

677
00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:35,239
Speaker 1: you know, my faith is really important to me and

678
00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:37,520
Speaker 1: my relationship for God, and that's something I prayed a

679
00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:41,759
Speaker 1: lot about and sometimes you know, for most people call

680
00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:43,920
Speaker 1: it that gut feeling. You know, I believe it's it's

681
00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:46,080
Speaker 1: the Holy Spirit. And I just felt like I had

682
00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:48,320
Speaker 1: to I had to go. And once Smith got the

683
00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:50,480
Speaker 1: job at Utah State, this kind I knew it was like,

684
00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:53,799
Speaker 1: all right, I probably gotta you know, go somewhere else

685
00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:56,120
Speaker 1: and try to play against the best competition and see

686
00:34:56,200 --> 00:34:58,960
Speaker 1: see how I stack up. Why. I know, there was

687
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:04,840
Speaker 1: a bunch of schools, why Tech coach Beard Um, you know,

688
00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:08,440
Speaker 1: pretty simple Northwestern. I like those guys a lot, and

689
00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:10,239
Speaker 1: it was close to home. My family wanted me to go.

690
00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:12,920
Speaker 1: There was Craton. I thought their style of play was

691
00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:20,480
Speaker 1: good for me. But you know, I think I think

692
00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:24,319
Speaker 1: something that has really helped me is just being uncomfortable

693
00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:28,239
Speaker 1: and putting myself in uncomfortable positions and uh, you know,

694
00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:31,160
Speaker 1: stay going close to home. That was comfortable. Going to Crayton,

695
00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:34,160
Speaker 1: similar system close to South Dakota, Like it was two

696
00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:37,520
Speaker 1: hours from South Dakota, so I'd still be by my friends. Um,

697
00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:39,880
Speaker 1: but Texas Tech like, and I remember I went to

698
00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:41,440
Speaker 1: Texas Tech and I played pick up down there, and

699
00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:46,120
Speaker 1: I didn't play very good. The other places stuff huh.

700
00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:48,520
Speaker 1: They told me the story by the one what they

701
00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:52,719
Speaker 1: say I played bad or what They're like, yeah, I

702
00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:55,399
Speaker 1: think he's better. He was better, they said. They were like, man,

703
00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:56,719
Speaker 1: we loved him on tape and then he was down

704
00:35:56,760 --> 00:36:00,960
Speaker 1: here was like yeah, and and Beer was like, yeah,

705
00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:03,200
Speaker 1: he's tougher than ship. He's my kind of Guy's my

706
00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:06,400
Speaker 1: kind of player. And and the other guys and staff

707
00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:08,799
Speaker 1: are like, yeah, I don't know if he's athletic enough

708
00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:13,080
Speaker 1: to play at this level. Yeah they still I mean,

709
00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:16,399
Speaker 1: I still don't know if I'm athletic enough. But they

710
00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:19,360
Speaker 1: that's that's right. I never heard that story. That's funny.

711
00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:21,200
Speaker 1: I didn't play very good down there. I wanted to

712
00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:22,960
Speaker 1: play pick up just to see how they play the

713
00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:26,479
Speaker 1: style of playing the system, and you know those guys

714
00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:29,880
Speaker 1: guard uh and they were garden and pickup and it

715
00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:33,960
Speaker 1: was different. Uh. But at the end of the day,

716
00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:35,440
Speaker 1: I went down there because I knew I was going

717
00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:39,240
Speaker 1: to get better, Like the resources they have, the player development,

718
00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:42,120
Speaker 1: the g as, the coaches, like, I knew they were

719
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:46,600
Speaker 1: gonna win. And you know, there was other schools recruiting

720
00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:48,719
Speaker 1: me that have kind of fell that had fallen off.

721
00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:51,520
Speaker 1: And I won't I won't say which school in particular,

722
00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:55,000
Speaker 1: but I remember, you know, one one of the schools

723
00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:56,360
Speaker 1: had gone to the tournament and they didn't go to

724
00:36:56,440 --> 00:36:58,840
Speaker 1: the tournament and they kind of had excuses for it,

725
00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:01,480
Speaker 1: um and they brought their whole team back, you know.

726
00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:05,560
Speaker 1: And uh, my brother was just like my older brother Dan,

727
00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:08,040
Speaker 1: he was just like man Beard would never let that happen.

728
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:10,279
Speaker 1: He's like, he's gonna find a way to win. And

729
00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:12,320
Speaker 1: and Tech lost like most of their guys. You know,

730
00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:17,360
Speaker 1: we weren't projected to be very I know, you guys unbelievable.

731
00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:23,440
Speaker 1: I mean, he's literally unbelievable. It's different. Okay. So I

732
00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:26,680
Speaker 1: was like to play duke because because I want to

733
00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:28,320
Speaker 1: get too final, I want to get to the NBA.

734
00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:30,920
Speaker 1: But for all of us, like you and me who

735
00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:33,520
Speaker 1: grew up watching the n c A tournament. Now you're

736
00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:38,399
Speaker 1: playing Duke neutral side game, you know, playing for tech,

737
00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:41,320
Speaker 1: and I know you didn't play all that well, um no,

738
00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:43,920
Speaker 1: not at all. What but like, what's that feeling like

739
00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:47,680
Speaker 1: like Holy ship about to play? Do? Yeah? No, Duke

740
00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:51,960
Speaker 1: is like the I don't know. It's like Yankees there

741
00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:54,440
Speaker 1: the team everybody wants to play. Yeah, the Yankees, whatever,

742
00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:57,439
Speaker 1: the Bulls in the nineties, they're the top dogs. They're

743
00:37:57,600 --> 00:38:00,480
Speaker 1: the team you know you see on TV, and it's

744
00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:02,279
Speaker 1: just like they got legends that come out of their

745
00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:06,600
Speaker 1: coach k So, like the hype was crazy. We were undefeated.

746
00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:09,560
Speaker 1: I think they were number two, uh in the Garden,

747
00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:12,640
Speaker 1: So it was electric in there. I think it was

748
00:38:12,680 --> 00:38:15,080
Speaker 1: sold out too, I don't I don't know. I mean

749
00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:18,160
Speaker 1: other than the final four. I mean, there's some really

750
00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:22,240
Speaker 1: good atmospheres in the Big twelve, but that was something.

751
00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:26,319
Speaker 1: It was a really good experience. I wish I could

752
00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:29,200
Speaker 1: have that one back. We all, do you know we

753
00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:33,120
Speaker 1: we should have had that game? Yeah? Um, okay. Then

754
00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:37,360
Speaker 1: you go on this magical run in the in the

755
00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:40,560
Speaker 1: n c A tournament and you go all the way

756
00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:42,239
Speaker 1: to the Final four, but it's like so much of

757
00:38:42,280 --> 00:38:45,400
Speaker 1: it's a blur, right, Like you crushed Michigan State like

758
00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:47,400
Speaker 1: that was. But I mean you hit all those you

759
00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:51,279
Speaker 1: hit a bunch of threes against Gonzaga, and you guys,

760
00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:55,040
Speaker 1: I mean really sliced and dice Gonzaga. Um, when you

761
00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:57,680
Speaker 1: close your eyes and you think back that, But our

762
00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:00,600
Speaker 1: memories are different as fans. What what you what do

763
00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:06,920
Speaker 1: you remember? Yeah? I remember the Gonzaga game, um, in

764
00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:09,320
Speaker 1: Michigan State. You know the last three, you know the

765
00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:13,279
Speaker 1: Virginia one. Obviously, I don't don't want to remember that,

766
00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:17,080
Speaker 1: but I gotta move on, Like you remember the losses

767
00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:21,000
Speaker 1: more than the wins. Right, that's a good point, um.

768
00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:24,880
Speaker 1: But I remember the Gonzaga game and Gonzaga. Gonzaga was

769
00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:27,200
Speaker 1: really good and that was like to there. I was

770
00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:29,600
Speaker 1: in training camp with Memphis with Brandon Clark, and you

771
00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:31,560
Speaker 1: know that was their year. They thought that was their year.

772
00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:35,840
Speaker 1: They were they were stacked. Um. And I just remember

773
00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:38,520
Speaker 1: we played out of our minds. I mean we played

774
00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:41,880
Speaker 1: really well, like as a team. Um. And I just

775
00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:46,280
Speaker 1: remember I remember one play where I got to steal

776
00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:48,520
Speaker 1: and I threw it away and they dunked it, and um,

777
00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:52,120
Speaker 1: I remember the play late where you know the Perkins

778
00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:54,920
Speaker 1: Morrow dribble it off his foot already and then they

779
00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:56,799
Speaker 1: pit the three and I was like, oh no, man,

780
00:39:57,040 --> 00:39:58,759
Speaker 1: like here we go. This is what you see on

781
00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:02,239
Speaker 1: TV every year. But um, that was a lot of fun.

782
00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:03,800
Speaker 1: That was probably one of my most fun games. It

783
00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:06,520
Speaker 1: was a complete game for myself, for the team, and

784
00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:10,200
Speaker 1: in Michigan State. You can't really explain the final four,

785
00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:14,440
Speaker 1: um two people unless I mean people have been there.

786
00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:16,439
Speaker 1: But like playing in it is hard to explain because

787
00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:20,520
Speaker 1: it's just so different than any other time I've ever played,

788
00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:23,880
Speaker 1: you know, eighty thousand people, seventy thousand whatever it was

789
00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:27,960
Speaker 1: instead of fifteen. You know, even fifteen is not just

790
00:40:28,080 --> 00:40:31,440
Speaker 1: sold out fifteen thousand, but seventy thousand. It's hard to

791
00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:36,120
Speaker 1: explain how cool that is. What happened in the time out,

792
00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:38,520
Speaker 1: That's what I want to know, I said, not what

793
00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:40,480
Speaker 1: happened at the time. You guys got the ball underneath

794
00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:44,040
Speaker 1: your own basket and confusion, and then you guys got

795
00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:52,040
Speaker 1: huh which game at the end? Tie games? Yes, what

796
00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:55,400
Speaker 1: happened in the time out, we were, you know, we

797
00:40:55,440 --> 00:40:57,239
Speaker 1: wanted to get the ball to Jarret. You know, I

798
00:40:57,719 --> 00:40:59,680
Speaker 1: you know, we there was discussions of maybe making him

799
00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:01,439
Speaker 1: a deep go away and trying to do something else,

800
00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:04,680
Speaker 1: but it happens so quick and you don't have much time,

801
00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:09,279
Speaker 1: and you know, we just ended up with drawing up

802
00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:11,279
Speaker 1: some some type of play to to get into the

803
00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:14,160
Speaker 1: ball and get a shot off and end up getting blocked. Um,

804
00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:17,080
Speaker 1: you know, hindsight, it would have been and I wish

805
00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:19,040
Speaker 1: we could have got a better look there, but they're

806
00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:21,000
Speaker 1: a really good defensive team, and who knows what we

807
00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:25,600
Speaker 1: would have gotten. Um what, what do you remember? What's

808
00:41:25,600 --> 00:41:28,800
Speaker 1: that feeling like? Like I remember my last game and

809
00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:31,320
Speaker 1: I just remember looking around in the locker room because

810
00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:33,160
Speaker 1: I was I just assumed we were going to cut down.

811
00:41:33,560 --> 00:41:35,640
Speaker 1: My mentality was a lot like yours, where I just

812
00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:37,239
Speaker 1: assume we're gonna win, We're gonna cut down the nets,

813
00:41:37,239 --> 00:41:39,680
Speaker 1: We're gonna Final four. Like you don't don't like Lucy

814
00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:41,279
Speaker 1: doesn't even come into the equation. When you wake up

815
00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:43,520
Speaker 1: that morning and then you look around, you're like, man,

816
00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:46,800
Speaker 1: I fucking love these dudes, like they're my guys. I

817
00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:49,319
Speaker 1: can't believe I never get to play basketball with them again.

818
00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:51,200
Speaker 1: It's different, though, when you only done it for a year.

819
00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:53,399
Speaker 1: Do you remember what that was like in the locker

820
00:41:53,480 --> 00:42:01,200
Speaker 1: room afterwards? Devastation. Man, I mean you're talking like you

821
00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:03,319
Speaker 1: got the Elite eight, Like you're almost there, we got

822
00:42:03,400 --> 00:42:07,440
Speaker 1: the national championship. You know, you're like like right right

823
00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:11,480
Speaker 1: there with the ball underneath your basket, tie game in regulation.

824
00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:14,600
Speaker 1: So it's tough. You know. The only way I can

825
00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:19,080
Speaker 1: really get past it is I can just focus on

826
00:42:19,239 --> 00:42:21,320
Speaker 1: the positives and what I'm grateful for and like that

827
00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:23,560
Speaker 1: we got that far. I could have gone to another school.

828
00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:25,600
Speaker 1: We won't even went to the tournament, you know, and

829
00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:27,719
Speaker 1: I got to experience that and make it all the

830
00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:30,960
Speaker 1: way there. But you know, personally, I have a lot

831
00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:33,080
Speaker 1: of regret, Like I wish I would have been more aggressive,

832
00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:36,000
Speaker 1: and I still have dreams about it. Man, I have

833
00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:39,000
Speaker 1: dreams and I wake up and I'm like, man, uh

834
00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:40,920
Speaker 1: go dreams that I like, I make the game when

835
00:42:40,920 --> 00:42:42,480
Speaker 1: he said, and I'm just like, man, I wish I

836
00:42:42,520 --> 00:42:45,840
Speaker 1: would have been more aggressive and more assertive earlier in

837
00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:48,840
Speaker 1: that game because it's like it's just another game. But

838
00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:51,480
Speaker 1: it's not just another game. I know. I know. I

839
00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:54,480
Speaker 1: would love to tell you that that goes away. Okay,

840
00:42:55,440 --> 00:42:57,839
Speaker 1: it doesn't go away just like that. It's all right, man,

841
00:42:57,920 --> 00:43:00,080
Speaker 1: life goes on the sun. The sun rises and it

842
00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:06,200
Speaker 1: does totally okay, So you get done okay, and your

843
00:43:06,239 --> 00:43:08,359
Speaker 1: thought process by now it's like, okay, now I can

844
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:10,880
Speaker 1: I know I can make the league, but it's harder

845
00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:16,320
Speaker 1: than just that summer league was with who Atlanta. Okay,

846
00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:19,120
Speaker 1: the draft comes and goes, you don't get picked. Did

847
00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:22,480
Speaker 1: you watch the draft? I watched the draft because I

848
00:43:22,520 --> 00:43:24,719
Speaker 1: had some good draft workouts, and you know, I got

849
00:43:24,719 --> 00:43:26,920
Speaker 1: a really good agent, um, Chris Emmons, and I got

850
00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:29,759
Speaker 1: a bunch of draft workouts, and obviously I don't get

851
00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:31,879
Speaker 1: those workouts if we don't go to the final four

852
00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:33,799
Speaker 1: and we don't get that exposure, and if I don't

853
00:43:33,840 --> 00:43:36,640
Speaker 1: play well in in that Michigan State team, I probably

854
00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:40,279
Speaker 1: don't get that many workouts. Um. So I watched the

855
00:43:40,360 --> 00:43:43,280
Speaker 1: draft because there was possibility maybe I get picked second

856
00:43:43,360 --> 00:43:48,560
Speaker 1: round later second round. But you're getting mad. I know

857
00:43:48,640 --> 00:43:50,480
Speaker 1: it was a long no, no, not at all. I

858
00:43:50,600 --> 00:43:52,759
Speaker 1: know it was a long shot. Um, but my agent

859
00:43:52,840 --> 00:43:54,279
Speaker 1: is like, hey, there's a couple of teams that are

860
00:43:54,719 --> 00:43:57,600
Speaker 1: considering you, and uh, the draft comes and goes and

861
00:43:57,719 --> 00:44:00,160
Speaker 1: I get the call. It's like Hey, you to go

862
00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:01,960
Speaker 1: to Atlanta for Summer League. We got to decide in

863
00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:04,000
Speaker 1: like a minute because they're trying to fill Atlanta is

864
00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:06,839
Speaker 1: trying to fill their roster summer league teams. So I said,

865
00:44:06,840 --> 00:44:08,279
Speaker 1: if you think that's what we do, then we do it.

866
00:44:08,560 --> 00:44:14,399
Speaker 1: And I went to Atlanta. What was that like? Well, uh,

867
00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:17,000
Speaker 1: you know, every step of the way for me, it's

868
00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:20,160
Speaker 1: just pressure. You know, you gotta perform and because if

869
00:44:20,200 --> 00:44:22,399
Speaker 1: I feel if I don't perform, then that's like it's

870
00:44:22,480 --> 00:44:26,279
Speaker 1: like it's probably over limited opportunities. But I got to

871
00:44:26,360 --> 00:44:29,200
Speaker 1: play twenty minutes a game with Atlanta in Summer League,

872
00:44:29,719 --> 00:44:32,080
Speaker 1: and uh, I played okay, But I realized, like I

873
00:44:32,120 --> 00:44:34,120
Speaker 1: got to develop as a point guard. In college, I

874
00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:36,400
Speaker 1: was like a tambo, and summer league I was like,

875
00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:37,879
Speaker 1: I I really got to own in on my point

876
00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:40,399
Speaker 1: guard skills and if I'm gonna play in the league,

877
00:44:40,400 --> 00:44:43,560
Speaker 1: I gotta be a point guard probably six three white guy,

878
00:44:44,120 --> 00:44:47,799
Speaker 1: not the most athletic. Um. I would be a tough

879
00:44:48,400 --> 00:44:51,160
Speaker 1: point guard and make the right reads, but also, you know,

880
00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:54,000
Speaker 1: make some plays here and there like not just you know,

881
00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:56,200
Speaker 1: that's the thing. I Kirk Heinrich actually lives in South

882
00:44:56,280 --> 00:44:59,640
Speaker 1: Dakota and I would be working out with him sometimes.

883
00:44:59,680 --> 00:45:02,840
Speaker 1: He's I grew up watching him with the Bulls. He

884
00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:05,600
Speaker 1: was he was a great player, a really good player,

885
00:45:06,000 --> 00:45:08,879
Speaker 1: playing the league for a while. And I remember him

886
00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:10,880
Speaker 1: telling me like, hey, because at first I was like,

887
00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:12,359
Speaker 1: all right, I just gotta be sold. You look at

888
00:45:12,360 --> 00:45:14,440
Speaker 1: like white Cards that played in the league, and they

889
00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:18,320
Speaker 1: were just super tough, gritty, solid guys, make open shots,

890
00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:21,440
Speaker 1: make their free throws, make their teammates better type of thing.

891
00:45:22,040 --> 00:45:24,520
Speaker 1: And I remember, you know, I'm trying to do that,

892
00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:27,040
Speaker 1: but Kirk's like, look, you still gotta when you get

893
00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:29,560
Speaker 1: in there, you gotta show like that you can hoop

894
00:45:30,080 --> 00:45:34,680
Speaker 1: you you you you gotta still be aggressive and uh

895
00:45:35,239 --> 00:45:38,400
Speaker 1: because otherwise you're just out there. So you know, he

896
00:45:38,760 --> 00:45:40,719
Speaker 1: really uh you know, he was in my ear and

897
00:45:40,760 --> 00:45:43,359
Speaker 1: helped me out with some things too. Okay, So then

898
00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:48,239
Speaker 1: well and then then Memphis for training camp. Okay, yeah,

899
00:45:49,239 --> 00:45:53,160
Speaker 1: what what was that? Like? Great experience? I love, I

900
00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:56,040
Speaker 1: love I love Memphis and staff and everybody there. Um,

901
00:45:56,560 --> 00:45:58,760
Speaker 1: you know, the first time being in the NBA facility

902
00:45:58,840 --> 00:46:02,759
Speaker 1: and being around NBA guys and playing and uh, you know,

903
00:46:02,960 --> 00:46:05,520
Speaker 1: that was kind of like John Morant was there and

904
00:46:05,840 --> 00:46:07,719
Speaker 1: you know, he's young and super talented, and I was like,

905
00:46:08,040 --> 00:46:09,719
Speaker 1: you know, I saw a firsthand like how good that

906
00:46:09,800 --> 00:46:12,680
Speaker 1: guy was gonna be? Saw competing with all these guys,

907
00:46:13,440 --> 00:46:15,120
Speaker 1: and that was the first time Like that gave me

908
00:46:15,120 --> 00:46:17,560
Speaker 1: a lot of confidence playing with those guys and knowing

909
00:46:17,640 --> 00:46:19,960
Speaker 1: that I'm you know, and I was playing well. We

910
00:46:20,040 --> 00:46:24,239
Speaker 1: played pick up playing well. Um, that gave me a

911
00:46:24,280 --> 00:46:27,360
Speaker 1: lot of confidence. But it's like, once you get to

912
00:46:27,440 --> 00:46:30,800
Speaker 1: the NBA level, you gotta remind yourself. You can't defer,

913
00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:33,720
Speaker 1: you know, you gotta remind like I had a constant

914
00:46:33,800 --> 00:46:35,759
Speaker 1: re mydself, I belong here, you know, go out and

915
00:46:35,880 --> 00:46:38,600
Speaker 1: be aggressive, be a killer, you know that type of thing.

916
00:46:39,880 --> 00:46:42,640
Speaker 1: You talked about your relationship with God. It's not it's

917
00:46:42,719 --> 00:46:47,040
Speaker 1: not uh like from a book. It's not true religion.

918
00:46:47,120 --> 00:46:49,800
Speaker 1: It's more kind of your relationship and spirituality to it.

919
00:46:51,120 --> 00:46:53,839
Speaker 1: How How did how does that helped you? Because it's

920
00:46:53,880 --> 00:46:55,680
Speaker 1: not easy, right, Like you're going place and you think

921
00:46:55,719 --> 00:46:57,640
Speaker 1: you play well, and then now you're off to the

922
00:46:57,760 --> 00:47:00,840
Speaker 1: G League and you're with new guys and your confidence

923
00:47:00,920 --> 00:47:03,000
Speaker 1: is tested, Like, how does that play a part in

924
00:47:03,120 --> 00:47:05,640
Speaker 1: what you've been able to do? In terms sustaining kind

925
00:47:05,640 --> 00:47:09,080
Speaker 1: of your will. Yeah, great question. I'm really I'm really

926
00:47:09,120 --> 00:47:11,840
Speaker 1: glad you asked me that. Um, you know, I found

927
00:47:12,600 --> 00:47:14,560
Speaker 1: I was in college in South Dakota. I was searching

928
00:47:14,600 --> 00:47:17,440
Speaker 1: for answers. You know, I grew up Catholic, but I

929
00:47:17,560 --> 00:47:20,120
Speaker 1: was just like, is this you know, because everybody grows

930
00:47:20,200 --> 00:47:23,040
Speaker 1: up believe in different things? So like, am I right

931
00:47:23,480 --> 00:47:25,040
Speaker 1: because I grew up this way and they grew up

932
00:47:25,080 --> 00:47:27,360
Speaker 1: that way? And what they believe that they're right? You know,

933
00:47:27,560 --> 00:47:30,560
Speaker 1: somebody grows up half across the country or across the world.

934
00:47:31,360 --> 00:47:33,920
Speaker 1: Everybody believes different things. So I just started searching for truth,

935
00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:37,160
Speaker 1: and you know, I found that that Jesus was the truth. Um,

936
00:47:37,280 --> 00:47:38,960
Speaker 1: you know, son of God rose from the dead, and

937
00:47:39,120 --> 00:47:41,200
Speaker 1: so then I started just looking at what he said

938
00:47:41,280 --> 00:47:43,440
Speaker 1: and how he lived and he showed us how to live.

939
00:47:44,160 --> 00:47:46,719
Speaker 1: And you know, I started developing my relationship with God.

940
00:47:47,440 --> 00:47:50,440
Speaker 1: I realized it wasn't about you know, rules and traditions,

941
00:47:50,520 --> 00:47:55,959
Speaker 1: but more about um, you know, just having my heart

942
00:47:56,480 --> 00:47:58,840
Speaker 1: being posture towards him, Like do I love others the

943
00:47:58,880 --> 00:48:00,920
Speaker 1: way he loves me? Sort of? That's what it all

944
00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:03,120
Speaker 1: comes down to, the Bible, It all comes down to love.

945
00:48:03,760 --> 00:48:07,680
Speaker 1: Love others as yourself, right. But you know, with with

946
00:48:07,800 --> 00:48:10,600
Speaker 1: the game of basketball, and halfway through the season I

947
00:48:10,680 --> 00:48:12,319
Speaker 1: told you that one year in South Dakota, my game

948
00:48:12,400 --> 00:48:14,360
Speaker 1: kind of took off. What I didn't tell you is,

949
00:48:15,080 --> 00:48:17,560
Speaker 1: you know, my my relationship with God kind of took off.

950
00:48:17,600 --> 00:48:21,280
Speaker 1: And I realized, like I talked a lot about pressure,

951
00:48:21,400 --> 00:48:23,480
Speaker 1: you know, there's constant pressure with the line of work

952
00:48:23,520 --> 00:48:26,319
Speaker 1: I'm in, and you know, you've you've lived and played

953
00:48:26,320 --> 00:48:28,840
Speaker 1: at a really high level. And uh, A lot of

954
00:48:28,920 --> 00:48:31,960
Speaker 1: guys struggle dealing with that, and I struggle dealing with

955
00:48:32,160 --> 00:48:35,400
Speaker 1: it and for a long time. And if I if

956
00:48:35,440 --> 00:48:38,360
Speaker 1: I played bad, I felt like this big you know,

957
00:48:38,719 --> 00:48:41,919
Speaker 1: I felt like I was I was worthless in a way.

958
00:48:42,719 --> 00:48:44,520
Speaker 1: And that's not what God tells us, you know, he

959
00:48:44,600 --> 00:48:46,800
Speaker 1: tells us what our worth is based on, you know,

960
00:48:47,080 --> 00:48:51,200
Speaker 1: are how we treat other people. So what I'm getting

961
00:48:51,239 --> 00:48:55,160
Speaker 1: at is my relationship with God. It made me realize

962
00:48:55,200 --> 00:48:57,640
Speaker 1: if I play poorly or if I play great, God's

963
00:48:57,680 --> 00:48:59,839
Speaker 1: love for me doesn't change. And then in my game

964
00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:02,880
Speaker 1: of golf, because I just had this piece in me

965
00:49:03,320 --> 00:49:05,600
Speaker 1: and like I knew, no matter how I played, his

966
00:49:05,719 --> 00:49:08,279
Speaker 1: love for me wasn't going to change. You know, I

967
00:49:08,360 --> 00:49:12,560
Speaker 1: still had salvation through Jesus, and I just started killing.

968
00:49:12,920 --> 00:49:15,000
Speaker 1: It wasn't because I was. I was. You know a

969
00:49:15,080 --> 00:49:17,040
Speaker 1: lot of people think that prayer like Lord, help me

970
00:49:17,120 --> 00:49:18,640
Speaker 1: play my best, and that was me. I do that.

971
00:49:18,760 --> 00:49:21,839
Speaker 1: I still do that, but it's like he doesn't really

972
00:49:21,960 --> 00:49:25,399
Speaker 1: care how we play. It cares how we treat other people.

973
00:49:26,719 --> 00:49:28,839
Speaker 1: But I just I had this piece inside me once

974
00:49:28,880 --> 00:49:30,800
Speaker 1: in my relationship with him, and I just I started

975
00:49:30,800 --> 00:49:36,319
Speaker 1: playing way better. Um, you're in Canon, right, and where

976
00:49:36,360 --> 00:49:38,680
Speaker 1: were you when you got the call that you get

977
00:49:38,719 --> 00:49:42,160
Speaker 1: to go play for the Caps. I was in Memphis. Actually,

978
00:49:42,239 --> 00:49:45,560
Speaker 1: I was in Memphis. I was walking to because I

979
00:49:45,640 --> 00:49:48,840
Speaker 1: was with the G League team in Memphis and we

980
00:49:48,960 --> 00:49:51,080
Speaker 1: get tickets to the Grizzlies games. It was a Grizzlies

981
00:49:51,160 --> 00:49:53,239
Speaker 1: Rockets game. I remember it like it was yesterday. And

982
00:49:53,360 --> 00:49:58,200
Speaker 1: I get called to uh called by my agent. I'm

983
00:49:58,200 --> 00:50:00,120
Speaker 1: on the side of the street and he calls. The

984
00:50:00,360 --> 00:50:03,640
Speaker 1: first thing he says is this. He says, hey, man,

985
00:50:03,680 --> 00:50:05,759
Speaker 1: I regret to inform you you're no longer with the

986
00:50:05,800 --> 00:50:10,800
Speaker 1: Memphis Hustle. So I'm just like, I'm like okay. He's like,

987
00:50:10,880 --> 00:50:13,160
Speaker 1: pack your bags are going to Cleveland. You got a

988
00:50:13,200 --> 00:50:17,000
Speaker 1: two way contract with the cast So, like, you know

989
00:50:17,200 --> 00:50:19,440
Speaker 1: that that feeling we talked about earlier where I always

990
00:50:19,480 --> 00:50:20,840
Speaker 1: felt like I could play in the league, but I

991
00:50:20,920 --> 00:50:22,360
Speaker 1: knew it was gonna be tough, and I didn't know

992
00:50:22,520 --> 00:50:24,239
Speaker 1: like it was ever gonna happen, but I believed it

993
00:50:24,320 --> 00:50:27,400
Speaker 1: could you know, it was happening. And uh, you know,

994
00:50:27,480 --> 00:50:29,080
Speaker 1: I sat there on the on the curb and I

995
00:50:29,200 --> 00:50:32,239
Speaker 1: just you know, I thank God. And the first person

996
00:50:32,320 --> 00:50:36,759
Speaker 1: I called, um it was my dad. And not to

997
00:50:36,880 --> 00:50:39,920
Speaker 1: put a damper on the mood at all, but my

998
00:50:40,080 --> 00:50:43,640
Speaker 1: dad's you know, currently only got a couple of months

999
00:50:43,680 --> 00:50:47,120
Speaker 1: to live. You know, he's got h he's got a

1000
00:50:47,160 --> 00:50:49,759
Speaker 1: disease in his brain, and only given him a couple

1001
00:50:49,760 --> 00:50:54,080
Speaker 1: of months left. And but but I say that because

1002
00:50:54,360 --> 00:50:57,520
Speaker 1: you know, before my dad, before I got that call

1003
00:50:57,600 --> 00:50:59,120
Speaker 1: from my agent, I got a call from my dad.

1004
00:50:59,280 --> 00:51:02,359
Speaker 1: And my dad has lived in Cleveland for about five

1005
00:51:02,400 --> 00:51:05,520
Speaker 1: years now, so he's been in Cleveland. Wow. And he

1006
00:51:05,640 --> 00:51:07,919
Speaker 1: called me about an hour before that and he said,

1007
00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:09,880
Speaker 1: you know, he got bad news from the doctor. His

1008
00:51:10,040 --> 00:51:13,319
Speaker 1: cancer was spread. Okay, Well, an hour later I got

1009
00:51:13,360 --> 00:51:14,879
Speaker 1: a call from my agent telling me I was going

1010
00:51:14,920 --> 00:51:18,319
Speaker 1: to Cleveland and so I called him and he just said,

1011
00:51:18,400 --> 00:51:21,360
Speaker 1: you know, you just one of the worst days in

1012
00:51:21,400 --> 00:51:23,759
Speaker 1: my life just became one of the best. And it's

1013
00:51:23,800 --> 00:51:25,839
Speaker 1: given me a lot of time to be with him.

1014
00:51:25,880 --> 00:51:28,239
Speaker 1: And uh, you know, he was at the first game,

1015
00:51:28,280 --> 00:51:29,759
Speaker 1: and it was really cool to have him there. So

1016
00:51:30,680 --> 00:51:32,400
Speaker 1: that was the moment that I called my brother, my

1017
00:51:32,520 --> 00:51:35,000
Speaker 1: mom and people who have helped me get to this point,

1018
00:51:35,239 --> 00:51:40,600
Speaker 1: you know, back home, my coaches and stuff. Uh, that's

1019
00:51:40,640 --> 00:51:43,120
Speaker 1: why I'm special because so many people have helped me

1020
00:51:43,160 --> 00:51:45,600
Speaker 1: get here. Right. Nobody does it alone, so you share

1021
00:51:45,640 --> 00:51:47,960
Speaker 1: it with them. You know, I got, I got, I

1022
00:51:48,000 --> 00:51:49,719
Speaker 1: got two more things that I'm tight on time. I

1023
00:51:49,760 --> 00:51:52,640
Speaker 1: apologize because it's it's so good. The first game he

1024
00:51:52,680 --> 00:51:56,000
Speaker 1: played was against the nixt Yeah, what was the shot?

1025
00:51:56,040 --> 00:52:01,000
Speaker 1: You said, Floater? I mean, I mean, I don't shoot

1026
00:52:01,040 --> 00:52:04,080
Speaker 1: that side a whole lot um, but pump fake right

1027
00:52:04,120 --> 00:52:07,000
Speaker 1: foot right float. It look kind of awkward, but it's

1028
00:52:07,000 --> 00:52:10,560
Speaker 1: just it went down and it felt pretty good. That's

1029
00:52:10,560 --> 00:52:12,399
Speaker 1: my only bucket at this point because I only played

1030
00:52:12,400 --> 00:52:15,319
Speaker 1: a couple of games so so so that that leads

1031
00:52:15,360 --> 00:52:19,680
Speaker 1: me into my second question to the to the six

1032
00:52:19,719 --> 00:52:23,680
Speaker 1: ft two to five eleven white dudes out there, that

1033
00:52:24,360 --> 00:52:26,719
Speaker 1: everybody's like, you ain't got no shot, dude. You can

1034
00:52:26,719 --> 00:52:29,000
Speaker 1: go and pay your check and playing an a U team,

1035
00:52:29,520 --> 00:52:32,560
Speaker 1: maybe playing college. You're a guy that I'm sure people

1036
00:52:32,640 --> 00:52:36,600
Speaker 1: are like, you're not playing right. One scholarship offer to

1037
00:52:36,680 --> 00:52:38,520
Speaker 1: the Air Force out of high school. You don't even

1038
00:52:38,520 --> 00:52:40,359
Speaker 1: go to the Air Force to go to their prep,

1039
00:52:40,640 --> 00:52:42,760
Speaker 1: and you play when you're there in the South Dakota,

1040
00:52:43,400 --> 00:52:46,520
Speaker 1: then the Tech. Okay, then you've scratched and clawed and

1041
00:52:46,600 --> 00:52:48,600
Speaker 1: you've made it. You have whatever you do the rest

1042
00:52:48,600 --> 00:52:51,239
Speaker 1: of your life. You have done what only four people

1043
00:52:51,280 --> 00:52:53,279
Speaker 1: get to do a year out of eight billion people

1044
00:52:53,320 --> 00:52:58,759
Speaker 1: on Earth. How do you persevere through the hard times? Yeah?

1045
00:52:58,840 --> 00:53:01,759
Speaker 1: Good question. Um, I don't think I've made it, you know,

1046
00:53:01,840 --> 00:53:06,040
Speaker 1: I put on that jersey, but I'm still constantly pursuing,

1047
00:53:06,120 --> 00:53:08,200
Speaker 1: you know, make a career out of it and be better,

1048
00:53:08,560 --> 00:53:12,560
Speaker 1: um every day. But how do you persevere through the

1049
00:53:12,600 --> 00:53:15,040
Speaker 1: hard time? For me, it was my faith, you know, um.

1050
00:53:15,480 --> 00:53:17,719
Speaker 1: And for those five eleven and six two guys are

1051
00:53:17,760 --> 00:53:21,359
Speaker 1: those guys who are underrated, it's just chase your dreams, man,

1052
00:53:21,520 --> 00:53:24,160
Speaker 1: Like everybody's gonna tell you what you can and can't

1053
00:53:24,200 --> 00:53:26,439
Speaker 1: do or what you should do do what you love

1054
00:53:26,960 --> 00:53:29,440
Speaker 1: and go after it as hard as you can go

1055
00:53:29,560 --> 00:53:31,560
Speaker 1: after it. And if you don't make it, you don't

1056
00:53:31,600 --> 00:53:33,440
Speaker 1: make it. But you gotta go for it. And that's

1057
00:53:33,440 --> 00:53:36,160
Speaker 1: how I felt, and that's why I made the decisions

1058
00:53:36,200 --> 00:53:39,200
Speaker 1: I made. And UM, you know, here I am and

1059
00:53:39,200 --> 00:53:41,880
Speaker 1: hopefully I'll keep on going. Hey man, this is an

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00:53:41,920 --> 00:53:44,880
Speaker 1: awesome talk. Um. I'm so sorry to hear that your

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00:53:44,920 --> 00:53:49,279
Speaker 1: dad's struggles, but I gotta run and I really appreciate it. Yeah, no,

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Speaker 1: I really enjoyed it. Doug. Good to talk to you, man.

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Speaker 1: Thanks man. All right, all right, Uh quick reminder, The

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00:53:56,560 --> 00:54:00,480
Speaker 1: Doug Gottlieb Show is daily daily on Fox Worts Radio

1065
00:54:00,520 --> 00:54:02,120
Speaker 1: dot com. You can stream us anywhere you go. You

1066
00:54:02,120 --> 00:54:04,879
Speaker 1: can download the podcast as well, and you can listen

1067
00:54:04,960 --> 00:54:07,720
Speaker 1: to us live three or six Eastern twelve three Pacific

1068
00:54:08,120 --> 00:54:10,480
Speaker 1: Fox Sports Radio dot Com stream the show. We've got

1069
00:54:10,560 --> 00:54:15,160
Speaker 1: great interviews football, baseball, basketball as well. Anyway, by thanks

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00:54:15,160 --> 00:54:16,799
Speaker 1: to Matt Mooney and to you for joining us. I'm

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00:54:16,800 --> 00:54:18,719
Speaker 1: Doug gotlib In. This is all ball