1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:03,040 Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray. 2 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:07,520 Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you welcome to stuff you should know 3 00:00:08,119 --> 00:00:16,400 Speaker 1: from house Stuff Works dot com. Hey, and welcome to 4 00:00:16,440 --> 00:00:20,360 Speaker 1: the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. With me as always is 5 00:00:21,079 --> 00:00:24,599 Speaker 1: Charles W. Chuck Bryant, who better not be podcasting with 6 00:00:24,640 --> 00:00:27,920 Speaker 1: anybody else behind my back? Are you You didn't hear 7 00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:30,800 Speaker 1: about the Chuck and Chuck show? Who's the other Chuck? 8 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:33,720 Speaker 1: It's me? You're doing it with yourself, yes, but I 9 00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:37,920 Speaker 1: do your voice as me. That's fine. It's sort of weird. 10 00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:43,960 Speaker 1: It's just obsessive, like theater acting, sort of fantasy league thing. 11 00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:47,720 Speaker 1: Am I the the dummy in it? Like? Are you 12 00:00:47,760 --> 00:00:53,280 Speaker 1: just I'm Josso. Yeah, I figured I figured you did 13 00:00:53,280 --> 00:00:56,600 Speaker 1: that in your underwear in the mirror every mornings. It's 14 00:00:56,640 --> 00:00:59,440 Speaker 1: really good and the numbers like we're rivaling our own 15 00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:03,400 Speaker 1: show now open people love it. I'm surprised that hasn't 16 00:01:03,440 --> 00:01:07,600 Speaker 1: overtaken it yet. Wait, it's that one. Oh I didn't 17 00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:09,560 Speaker 1: know that was you? What. There's probably people out there like, 18 00:01:09,560 --> 00:01:11,880 Speaker 1: oh my god, I gotta hear this. Let's get to 19 00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:15,160 Speaker 1: it showing enough of this riff raff crap enough, Okay, Chuck, 20 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:21,479 Speaker 1: You're ready. October this month? Uh is National apple Jack Month, 21 00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:25,640 Speaker 1: National pickle Peppers Month, National Breast Cancer Aware this month. 22 00:01:25,680 --> 00:01:29,240 Speaker 1: Did you notice the Delta Stewards and Stewardesses pink everywhere? 23 00:01:29,240 --> 00:01:34,840 Speaker 1: I love it. It's National Mental Illness Awareness Month, National Lesbian, 24 00:01:34,880 --> 00:01:37,760 Speaker 1: Gay and Bisexual History Month. And just so happens that 25 00:01:37,800 --> 00:01:41,800 Speaker 1: we're recording this on Pride weekend, which makes sense. Um, 26 00:01:41,880 --> 00:01:46,720 Speaker 1: it is National country Ham Month. Really, there's a lot 27 00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:49,640 Speaker 1: of October is a big month that kind of overshadows 28 00:01:50,440 --> 00:01:54,160 Speaker 1: Breast Cancer Awareness Month, Country Ham. It depends on the 29 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:57,440 Speaker 1: country Ham. I would say, uh, And then I guess 30 00:01:57,600 --> 00:02:00,200 Speaker 1: most apropos to this podcast, which I wasn't aware of, 31 00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:03,120 Speaker 1: but I don't think you were either. Um, It's National 32 00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:07,480 Speaker 1: Domestic Violence Awareness Month. Really, yes, And I say it's 33 00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:09,880 Speaker 1: a propos of this podcast because this is a podcast 34 00:02:09,880 --> 00:02:13,960 Speaker 1: on jealousy. Jealousy is one of the more widely recognized 35 00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:17,240 Speaker 1: triggers of domestic violence. Did you know that? Did not? 36 00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:20,359 Speaker 1: But it makes sense? Um. According to a two thousand 37 00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:27,720 Speaker 1: three alone I study um in relationships that were domestically violent, 38 00:02:28,280 --> 00:02:31,160 Speaker 1: it was male on woman domestic violence, and there is 39 00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:35,280 Speaker 1: such thing as the other way around, um, women who 40 00:02:35,320 --> 00:02:39,520 Speaker 1: were abused. As long as it was attended by jealousy, 41 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:43,560 Speaker 1: it was perceived by the battered woman as um less 42 00:02:43,639 --> 00:02:48,519 Speaker 1: negative and that deserves but less negative than um non 43 00:02:48,840 --> 00:02:54,120 Speaker 1: jealous violence. Interesting. Yeah, um, which is it's very interesting, 44 00:02:54,200 --> 00:02:56,440 Speaker 1: and it's really weird because it kind of goes it 45 00:02:56,560 --> 00:03:02,120 Speaker 1: speaks to our perception of jealousy. It's a it's a weird, undesirable, 46 00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:07,840 Speaker 1: unflattering emotion. Um. And yet it also shows we care 47 00:03:07,919 --> 00:03:11,560 Speaker 1: in certain ways. Right, Clearly, domestic violence is far far 48 00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:18,640 Speaker 1: beyond any level of caring. But it's so it's it 49 00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:22,760 Speaker 1: can even spill over that far the idea that jealousy 50 00:03:22,760 --> 00:03:25,800 Speaker 1: equals caring, that it can it can reach violent levels. 51 00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:28,160 Speaker 1: That is one of the more messed up things I've 52 00:03:28,160 --> 00:03:30,760 Speaker 1: heard in a long time. And because as I can 53 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:35,600 Speaker 1: hear the scenario of well, he was just jealous because 54 00:03:35,600 --> 00:03:37,320 Speaker 1: I was talking to that guy at the bar, which 55 00:03:37,320 --> 00:03:41,480 Speaker 1: means he loves me, which is like, that's so messed up. 56 00:03:41,600 --> 00:03:44,280 Speaker 1: It is very because I josh am of the belief. 57 00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:49,320 Speaker 1: Before we get started, here's Chuck's oppinion rant. These are 58 00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:52,280 Speaker 1: the two things that Chuck says about jealousy. This is 59 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:55,720 Speaker 1: not backed up in any scientific way. I believe that 60 00:03:56,080 --> 00:03:59,360 Speaker 1: A there is no place in jealousy in any healthy relationship. 61 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:02,120 Speaker 1: In the article, it says like jealousy can be good 62 00:04:02,160 --> 00:04:06,360 Speaker 1: as long as I don't agree B. Because of that, 63 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:09,160 Speaker 1: I think jealousy pops up when you when there are 64 00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:13,160 Speaker 1: trust issues should never be trust issues. When there is 65 00:04:13,200 --> 00:04:16,800 Speaker 1: an unhealthy dependence on one another should never be that. 66 00:04:17,400 --> 00:04:20,400 Speaker 1: And when one or both of the parties is really 67 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:25,480 Speaker 1: really insecure with each other. I disagree. All right, then 68 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:29,799 Speaker 1: I don't disagree to like a polar opposite degree. Um, 69 00:04:29,839 --> 00:04:32,280 Speaker 1: but I do think I did agree with the article 70 00:04:32,400 --> 00:04:35,560 Speaker 1: where it says towards the end, the psychologist that was 71 00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:40,360 Speaker 1: um interviewed for this article suggests that a certain degree 72 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:44,680 Speaker 1: of what's called normal jealousy is healthy. UM. I don't 73 00:04:44,720 --> 00:04:47,480 Speaker 1: think it's possible to have a relationship that doesn't have 74 00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:51,359 Speaker 1: some sort of trust issues you're looking at it. I 75 00:04:51,400 --> 00:04:55,040 Speaker 1: have zero trust issues, zero jealousy, Emily, I've never had 76 00:04:55,080 --> 00:04:58,200 Speaker 1: anything like that. That is fantastic for you. I am 77 00:04:58,240 --> 00:05:02,040 Speaker 1: of the opinion, though, that jealousy in small measure to 78 00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:07,520 Speaker 1: a certain degree is symptomatic of a healthy relationship. Really. Yeah, 79 00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:09,479 Speaker 1: all right, let's get into it. Okay, you're ready. What 80 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:13,599 Speaker 1: is jealousy Chuck? First of all, jealousy envy same thing. 81 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:17,400 Speaker 1: Uh No, not at all. They're in fact quite different 82 00:05:17,440 --> 00:05:22,520 Speaker 1: because envy, Josh is when you want something that you 83 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:25,160 Speaker 1: do not have that someone else has, right, usually an 84 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:30,560 Speaker 1: object near or whatever. The job, jobs, an object is 85 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:32,479 Speaker 1: it if you write it down, if you draw a 86 00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:35,800 Speaker 1: picture of your job, it becomes an object. Whereas jealousy 87 00:05:36,080 --> 00:05:38,560 Speaker 1: is a fear of losing something that you have to 88 00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:42,320 Speaker 1: someone else, like a job or an object. So you 89 00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:45,279 Speaker 1: want something that somebody else has an envy and jealousy 90 00:05:45,320 --> 00:05:47,880 Speaker 1: you already have something, but you fear losing it. Yeah. 91 00:05:47,920 --> 00:05:49,880 Speaker 1: And like you know, relationships are usually where you talk 92 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:52,880 Speaker 1: about jealousy, So you basically fear that you're gonna lose 93 00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:56,520 Speaker 1: your mate to the dude at the bar. And jealousy, 94 00:05:56,640 --> 00:05:59,400 Speaker 1: Chuck is an emotion. So let's talk briefly about emotions. 95 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:07,160 Speaker 1: But they're um, primary emotions like fear, disgust, anger, joy, uh, 96 00:06:07,160 --> 00:06:10,240 Speaker 1: and a couple others okay, um, And these are found 97 00:06:10,240 --> 00:06:14,080 Speaker 1: in just about any animal with the brain, right, um. 98 00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:18,120 Speaker 1: And then there's secondary emotions that are self conscious emotions 99 00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:24,640 Speaker 1: that include jealousy, right, jealousy, shame, guilt, embarrassment, pride, um. 100 00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:28,039 Speaker 1: You have to have a sense of yourself and awareness 101 00:06:28,080 --> 00:06:31,520 Speaker 1: of yourself in relation to others to experience secondary emotions 102 00:06:31,560 --> 00:06:36,240 Speaker 1: like jealousy, because jealousy, you can't be jealous of anything 103 00:06:36,880 --> 00:06:39,960 Speaker 1: if there's not another person or another something. It takes 104 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:44,080 Speaker 1: two to be jealous, right. Yeah. And Ralph Hopka, he's 105 00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:46,880 Speaker 1: a professor of psychology at cal State Long Beach heap 106 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:49,599 Speaker 1: I know, was interviewed for this article and he put 107 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:53,599 Speaker 1: it really succinctly. He said, jealousy is an anticipatory emotion. 108 00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:56,800 Speaker 1: It seeks to prevent loss. That really sums it up 109 00:06:56,880 --> 00:06:59,279 Speaker 1: right there. But it also makes jealousy really really unusual 110 00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:02,839 Speaker 1: because think about it, like all relations or all um 111 00:07:02,839 --> 00:07:08,760 Speaker 1: emotions are reactionary. Really, there's like a stimuli or stimulus 112 00:07:09,320 --> 00:07:12,720 Speaker 1: and it you react to it. You feel fear because 113 00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:15,800 Speaker 1: of it, you feel joy because of it. Jealousy is 114 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:19,800 Speaker 1: the prospect of of experiencing something, so that makes it 115 00:07:19,840 --> 00:07:25,200 Speaker 1: an antecedent to other emotions like anger or fear, right 116 00:07:25,320 --> 00:07:29,640 Speaker 1: it comes first. Yeah, Yeah, it's weird, it's unusual, and 117 00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:35,240 Speaker 1: what our emotions chuck if not motivators, right, Fear motivates 118 00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:37,200 Speaker 1: you to like move away from the man coming at 119 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:40,800 Speaker 1: you with a knife. Joy motivates you to like do 120 00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:44,960 Speaker 1: that again or break out in song? Right, Uh, and 121 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:47,920 Speaker 1: then I guess jealousy motivates you to take measures to 122 00:07:48,080 --> 00:07:52,880 Speaker 1: prevent that loss. Interesting. Yeah, all right, this is gonna 123 00:07:52,920 --> 00:07:54,920 Speaker 1: be a fun one, alright, because rarely do we come 124 00:07:54,960 --> 00:07:57,880 Speaker 1: at it from different angles. Uh. Since we're talking about 125 00:07:57,960 --> 00:08:02,559 Speaker 1: m V, do you want to talk about your penis? Uh? Sure, 126 00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:06,320 Speaker 1: that's one of my favorite things talking about Uh. Freud. 127 00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:12,320 Speaker 1: Sigmund Freud, the psychoanalyst UM came up with the concept 128 00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:15,560 Speaker 1: of penis envy and I had a general idea of 129 00:08:15,560 --> 00:08:17,360 Speaker 1: what it was, and it wasn't very far off. But 130 00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:20,360 Speaker 1: it wasn't until this article that I read what penis 131 00:08:20,440 --> 00:08:26,400 Speaker 1: MV is. It is defined the psychoanalytic concept in which 132 00:08:26,440 --> 00:08:30,480 Speaker 1: a female envyes male characteristics or capabilities, especially the possession 133 00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:33,600 Speaker 1: of a penis. Right, Yeah, what's that gonna do with jealousy? 134 00:08:33,960 --> 00:08:36,920 Speaker 1: It doesn't, but it is interesting and I didn't realize 135 00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:39,720 Speaker 1: I didn't understand why this um was put into this either. 136 00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:43,120 Speaker 1: This is one of the more feminist articles on the site. Yeah, 137 00:08:43,160 --> 00:08:47,640 Speaker 1: I thought so. Um. But in in this little sidebar, 138 00:08:47,880 --> 00:08:51,480 Speaker 1: penis envy? Um. Basically what Freud came up with was 139 00:08:51,559 --> 00:08:54,160 Speaker 1: that all women want to be men, and all of 140 00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:58,120 Speaker 1: their accomplishments and feats are the result of a sense 141 00:08:58,120 --> 00:09:01,360 Speaker 1: of competition with men, or they're trying to make up 142 00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:05,080 Speaker 1: for their shortcoming of lacking a penis interesting. Obviously this 143 00:09:05,160 --> 00:09:10,960 Speaker 1: has been generally discarded, but pertinent to your your your 144 00:09:11,440 --> 00:09:13,760 Speaker 1: question of what it has to do with jealousy. Nothing, 145 00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:16,960 Speaker 1: because that's envy and we've already cleared the air between 146 00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:19,240 Speaker 1: what's envy and what's jealousy. I just thought it was 147 00:09:19,280 --> 00:09:23,760 Speaker 1: an interesting side it is. Can we talk about jealousy? Sure, Chuck, Uh. 148 00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:26,320 Speaker 1: There are there have been studies. It's kind of a 149 00:09:26,320 --> 00:09:30,520 Speaker 1: difficult thing to study, um, because you know, you want 150 00:09:30,520 --> 00:09:32,880 Speaker 1: to study if gender has an even to do with it, 151 00:09:32,920 --> 00:09:35,199 Speaker 1: if age has anything to do with it, if ethnicity 152 00:09:35,240 --> 00:09:37,440 Speaker 1: has any to do with it. And it's hard for 153 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:39,640 Speaker 1: like age, because you'd have to interview someone at the 154 00:09:39,640 --> 00:09:43,000 Speaker 1: age of fourteen as an adolescent, and then again in 155 00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:46,800 Speaker 1: their thirties and then their fifties, and that's sort of 156 00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:48,920 Speaker 1: a hard study to pull off. Yeah, the same person 157 00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:50,880 Speaker 1: you'd have to interview. One of the reasons why it's 158 00:09:50,920 --> 00:09:54,160 Speaker 1: so hard is because, well, it's a longitudinal study, but 159 00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:58,960 Speaker 1: with jealousy specifically, it's so um contextual, culturally contextual that 160 00:09:59,080 --> 00:10:02,319 Speaker 1: as the culture just expectations of what might make someone 161 00:10:02,440 --> 00:10:06,080 Speaker 1: jealous change as well. Sure that was the reason at 162 00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:09,840 Speaker 1: least given in this in this um, in this article, 163 00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:13,760 Speaker 1: but other longitudinal studies have been carried out, and it 164 00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:16,480 Speaker 1: could considerably be carried out, but apparently no one's done 165 00:10:16,480 --> 00:10:19,040 Speaker 1: it on jealousy, right, Yeah, but there have been some 166 00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:21,720 Speaker 1: really cool studies just about different aspects of jealousy and 167 00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:25,760 Speaker 1: they have found some pretty cool water cooler things that 168 00:10:25,800 --> 00:10:29,120 Speaker 1: you can wow your buddies tomorrow. And the cubicles. Um. 169 00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:33,480 Speaker 1: Women they've always thought have showed jealousy a little more 170 00:10:33,559 --> 00:10:36,800 Speaker 1: than men do. And we'll get into the emotional and 171 00:10:36,920 --> 00:10:41,120 Speaker 1: sexual jealousy in a minute. But one study revealed that 172 00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:44,640 Speaker 1: women when they're jealous tend to aim their ire more 173 00:10:44,679 --> 00:10:49,160 Speaker 1: often at the rival, whereas the male will aim the 174 00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:53,559 Speaker 1: ire at their partner a fisher. Interesting, yeah, great example 175 00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:59,520 Speaker 1: of that's really great example, Um, what lies beneath fatal attraction? 176 00:10:59,559 --> 00:11:02,040 Speaker 1: Glenn posts yeah, although she kind of came after the 177 00:11:02,080 --> 00:11:05,800 Speaker 1: family wholesale energy. Yeah. And then there's always the lorrain 178 00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:07,720 Speaker 1: of Bobbitts who just fly in the face of that, 179 00:11:07,800 --> 00:11:10,679 Speaker 1: and and the woman who run who ran over her 180 00:11:10,760 --> 00:11:14,800 Speaker 1: husband in Texas member with her daughter in the car. Right. Yeah. 181 00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:16,960 Speaker 1: So I mean I'm gonna end up saying this, I 182 00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:18,920 Speaker 1: might as well say it. I think it's all very personal, 183 00:11:19,240 --> 00:11:21,559 Speaker 1: Like it's hard to do a sweeping study of jealousy 184 00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:24,480 Speaker 1: and say people say this and people do this because 185 00:11:24,520 --> 00:11:27,520 Speaker 1: everyone's different. Yeah, and this other um, this supplemental study 186 00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:30,439 Speaker 1: from two I think that you came up with kind 187 00:11:30,520 --> 00:11:33,480 Speaker 1: of underscores that it supports that idea, Chuck. I think 188 00:11:33,520 --> 00:11:37,040 Speaker 1: jealousy is far more personal than it's been treated in 189 00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:39,760 Speaker 1: the past as well. Um, for the most part, it 190 00:11:39,840 --> 00:11:43,440 Speaker 1: was viewed as um, it was divided by gender, and 191 00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:46,640 Speaker 1: there are there are studies that support that that women 192 00:11:46,760 --> 00:11:49,400 Speaker 1: tend to be more jealous than men, right. Uh. And 193 00:11:49,400 --> 00:11:51,680 Speaker 1: that's I guess you have to be very careful with 194 00:11:51,720 --> 00:11:55,840 Speaker 1: your wardening there, because it's really easy to uh skew 195 00:11:56,400 --> 00:11:59,200 Speaker 1: that idea the wrong way. It doesn't mean that women 196 00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:02,920 Speaker 1: experience it's jealousy more than men. Necessarily. It just means 197 00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:07,520 Speaker 1: that women display jealous characteristics more than men according to 198 00:12:07,559 --> 00:12:09,559 Speaker 1: these studies. Well, yeah, and they say that one reason 199 00:12:09,679 --> 00:12:11,719 Speaker 1: might be that they're not more jealous, they just are 200 00:12:11,720 --> 00:12:15,280 Speaker 1: more open and honest with expressing that the men um. 201 00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:17,240 Speaker 1: Since you brought that study though, it is pretty interesting. 202 00:12:17,280 --> 00:12:20,960 Speaker 1: They there's long been the belief that, uh, men are 203 00:12:21,040 --> 00:12:24,200 Speaker 1: more upset about sexual infidelity, women are more upset about 204 00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:27,559 Speaker 1: emotional infidelity. Actually that is true, but they always thought 205 00:12:27,559 --> 00:12:32,600 Speaker 1: that it was evolutionary in its basis because men, ah, 206 00:12:32,679 --> 00:12:35,080 Speaker 1: and this is pretty interesting. There's no way to for 207 00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:39,520 Speaker 1: men to have proven that they're the father of a child, right, 208 00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:44,320 Speaker 1: So men were always very like guarded about sexual behavior. Well, 209 00:12:44,360 --> 00:12:47,360 Speaker 1: they guard their mate because they my wife, my you know, 210 00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:50,240 Speaker 1: Tuktok is pregnant, and I don't know if it was 211 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:53,560 Speaker 1: you know me, or if it was Ringo star over there. 212 00:12:54,760 --> 00:12:57,640 Speaker 1: Oh that's from caveman, and I don't know if Tuktok was. 213 00:12:57,720 --> 00:13:01,960 Speaker 1: But and women are more com admitted to raising a 214 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:05,160 Speaker 1: family and having a partner, so like an emotional betrayal 215 00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:08,280 Speaker 1: would be you know, more devastating to them. But the 216 00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:12,200 Speaker 1: scientist at a Penn State said, well, what about the 217 00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:16,400 Speaker 1: fact that there's men who are really upset about emotional 218 00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:18,559 Speaker 1: betrayal just like women are, Like, how do you explain that? 219 00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:21,680 Speaker 1: And they did some studies and they found that it's 220 00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:26,400 Speaker 1: not necessarily evolutionary and nature right, No, it's uh. What 221 00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:29,120 Speaker 1: they came up with was that it was much more 222 00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:33,679 Speaker 1: personal and specific. UM. Basically, what these two these two 223 00:13:33,760 --> 00:13:38,960 Speaker 1: researchers hypothesized was that UM, men tend to be more 224 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:42,280 Speaker 1: sexually jealous and women tend to be more emotionally jealous 225 00:13:42,360 --> 00:13:45,960 Speaker 1: or jealous over emotional betrayal and sexual betrayal. UM because 226 00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:53,439 Speaker 1: men are more likely to detach from personal relationships as 227 00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:57,520 Speaker 1: a defense mechanism. That was their hypothesis, And they carried 228 00:13:57,559 --> 00:13:59,719 Speaker 1: out the study and they found that their hypothesis was 229 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:06,280 Speaker 1: really correct, that men who are detached from relationships, which 230 00:14:06,320 --> 00:14:10,760 Speaker 1: they theorize as a defense mechanism, are more likely to 231 00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:13,760 Speaker 1: report that they would be turned off or made jealous 232 00:14:13,760 --> 00:14:18,160 Speaker 1: by a sexual betrayal than an emotional betrayal. But what 233 00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:19,880 Speaker 1: they found and what I think they were trying to 234 00:14:19,920 --> 00:14:25,400 Speaker 1: point out, was that their their hypothesis explains the why 235 00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:28,000 Speaker 1: there's a population of men who are in securely committed 236 00:14:28,040 --> 00:14:33,520 Speaker 1: relationships who consistently report that an emotional betrayal is way 237 00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:36,640 Speaker 1: worse than a sexual betrayal. So it's they're saying, like, 238 00:14:36,840 --> 00:14:41,200 Speaker 1: there are there there is a division of jealousy by gender. 239 00:14:41,240 --> 00:14:43,760 Speaker 1: But here's why it's not because you know, men can't 240 00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:46,760 Speaker 1: prove that that that's not their kid. That it's actually 241 00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:49,440 Speaker 1: much more personal than that. Did you know that? Men? 242 00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:52,720 Speaker 1: One of the most common reactions that a man has 243 00:14:52,760 --> 00:14:54,800 Speaker 1: when they first find out that their wife is pregnant 244 00:14:55,440 --> 00:15:01,160 Speaker 1: is whose is it? Even in committed like awesome marriages, 245 00:15:01,520 --> 00:15:04,520 Speaker 1: It's like a very common psychological reaction to think like 246 00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:08,040 Speaker 1: that can't be mine? What? Yeah, where did you read this? 247 00:15:08,640 --> 00:15:12,720 Speaker 1: I read it? That's it. I can't remember. Yeah, I 248 00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:16,840 Speaker 1: did so many sights I want to rag on right now. Alright, 249 00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:19,880 Speaker 1: chuck um Well quickly though about that study too. It 250 00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:22,240 Speaker 1: also points out that the person's history has a lot 251 00:15:22,280 --> 00:15:24,880 Speaker 1: to do with it, So right, it's a defense. Yeah, Like, 252 00:15:24,880 --> 00:15:26,640 Speaker 1: I'm not a jealous person at all, like I said, 253 00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:28,280 Speaker 1: and I have no trust issues, but if I had 254 00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:30,280 Speaker 1: been cheated on a bunch of times, I might sure, 255 00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:33,040 Speaker 1: and I throughout this podcast or I'm going to refer 256 00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:37,560 Speaker 1: to nameless friends of mine, And I do know this 257 00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:41,560 Speaker 1: one couple who the guy had a history of cheating 258 00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:43,840 Speaker 1: and the girl had a history of cheating. They hooked up, 259 00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:47,440 Speaker 1: they got married, and they're both pretty jealous. Oh yeah, 260 00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:49,920 Speaker 1: I mean it's and they've been mary happily married. It's 261 00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:52,200 Speaker 1: not like they're they're not a good couple, but they're 262 00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:56,240 Speaker 1: both just inherently jealous because they're both cheaters. Right. It's 263 00:15:56,280 --> 00:15:59,080 Speaker 1: kind of goes back to that, um judge not less 264 00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:01,240 Speaker 1: you be judged, or when you point a finger, there's 265 00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:04,840 Speaker 1: three pointing back at you. The concept that actually encountered 266 00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:10,680 Speaker 1: the Yeah, the concept that if you have cheated, um, 267 00:16:10,760 --> 00:16:13,760 Speaker 1: you are aware that people can do that to other peopure. 268 00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:17,360 Speaker 1: And on the same coin, if you've been cheated on, 269 00:16:17,800 --> 00:16:20,600 Speaker 1: you're acutely aware that that can happen. And I think 270 00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:22,760 Speaker 1: both of those situations can lead to jealousy too. I 271 00:16:22,760 --> 00:16:25,400 Speaker 1: think that's what that past state study was was saying that, 272 00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:29,240 Speaker 1: like you said, it's much more personal than of evolutionary 273 00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:33,800 Speaker 1: origin divided along gender. Right, Um, so, Chuck, let's let's um. 274 00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:37,200 Speaker 1: There have been other studies too that are some are hokey, 275 00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:41,440 Speaker 1: some deserve rim shots, some deserve sad hombones UM. But 276 00:16:41,520 --> 00:16:47,160 Speaker 1: apparently some studies have focused on jealousy as an individual 277 00:16:47,920 --> 00:16:52,840 Speaker 1: um emotion, not necessarily needing another person that it um 278 00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:57,040 Speaker 1: is or it originates in the self right. And one 279 00:16:57,080 --> 00:17:00,320 Speaker 1: of the things that they found was men who are 280 00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:03,480 Speaker 1: tall and women who are average height tend to be 281 00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:07,920 Speaker 1: less jealous than um men who are short or women 282 00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:11,280 Speaker 1: who are shorter or taller. And basically the point is 283 00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:14,720 Speaker 1: is that they know everybody wants them well. And I 284 00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:16,760 Speaker 1: think beyond that, it goes back to what I was saying. 285 00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:19,000 Speaker 1: I think the root of a lot of jealousy lies 286 00:17:19,080 --> 00:17:23,240 Speaker 1: in the insecurities of a person. And you know, short 287 00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:27,680 Speaker 1: guys are often insecure. Okay, So if jealousy is an 288 00:17:27,720 --> 00:17:31,040 Speaker 1: insecurity we're breaking new ground here, are we. Yeah, it 289 00:17:31,080 --> 00:17:37,160 Speaker 1: sounds like it, Okay, Jealousy is an insecurity insecurity based emotion, right, 290 00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:39,960 Speaker 1: I believe so, Yes, And what we're finding is that 291 00:17:40,080 --> 00:17:43,040 Speaker 1: it can be It can originate from the self feelings 292 00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:48,959 Speaker 1: of insecurity based on appearance, um, height, attributes, what have you, 293 00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:53,560 Speaker 1: or it can be inflicted by another person e g. 294 00:17:54,320 --> 00:17:58,880 Speaker 1: Cheating or being cheated on, or doing anything to break 295 00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:03,479 Speaker 1: someone's trust right right, trust breaking dude, we get our 296 00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:08,320 Speaker 1: pH ds today, Chuck, Yes, Uh, should we talk about 297 00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:13,600 Speaker 1: adolescent jealousy for a little bit, Yeah, adolescent jealousy, Josh 298 00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:17,439 Speaker 1: is um kids are pretty jealous. Like, there's some of 299 00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:20,040 Speaker 1: the more jealous creatures on earth. If you sit around 300 00:18:20,040 --> 00:18:23,320 Speaker 1: and watch kids, there's two types. There's one that is 301 00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:27,040 Speaker 1: inherently wants to share a lot and it's very kind 302 00:18:27,119 --> 00:18:29,359 Speaker 1: and giving. And there's one that doesn't want to share. 303 00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:31,879 Speaker 1: They want what you've got, They want your Lincoln logs, 304 00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:39,160 Speaker 1: they want to break your toys. And uh. Kids often 305 00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:42,080 Speaker 1: display this, and especially with siblings with sibling rivalry. But 306 00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:45,440 Speaker 1: they say rivalry whatever, and they say that's a really 307 00:18:45,560 --> 00:18:47,719 Speaker 1: normal behavior though, and not to get too worked up 308 00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:49,600 Speaker 1: about it as a parent, and to kind of stay 309 00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:52,359 Speaker 1: out of it unless you know it gets violent and 310 00:18:52,440 --> 00:18:54,320 Speaker 1: let them figure it out on their own. But that 311 00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:57,159 Speaker 1: that makes you wonder, like our kids more jealous or 312 00:18:57,359 --> 00:19:01,240 Speaker 1: are they just more emotionally honest? Well, maybe have they? 313 00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:03,439 Speaker 1: Have they not learned that you need to kind of 314 00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:05,280 Speaker 1: keep a lid on that kind of thing that or 315 00:19:05,320 --> 00:19:09,399 Speaker 1: not emotionally mature. It depends on how you look at it. 316 00:19:10,280 --> 00:19:15,320 Speaker 1: Jealous either way, is that right? Were you did you 317 00:19:15,359 --> 00:19:21,200 Speaker 1: happen to be extremely lonely or extremely insecure. I think 318 00:19:21,280 --> 00:19:25,760 Speaker 1: I was insecure in my high school relationship and that 319 00:19:25,800 --> 00:19:30,160 Speaker 1: made me really jealous. Oh yeah, yeah, okay, so check 320 00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:33,199 Speaker 1: that that's actually kind of normal to experience jealousy as 321 00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:36,639 Speaker 1: far as friendship, jealousy is an adolescent according to a 322 00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:39,359 Speaker 1: study that was produced in uh, well, not produced but 323 00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:44,119 Speaker 1: published instead in developmental psychology, right, and I basically found 324 00:19:44,119 --> 00:19:48,800 Speaker 1: that kids who are insecure or lonely, or experience insecurity 325 00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:53,840 Speaker 1: or extreme loneliness tend to um be jealous of friendships. Right, 326 00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:56,240 Speaker 1: So when they get into a friendship, they are jealous 327 00:19:56,280 --> 00:19:58,960 Speaker 1: of their friends friends to the point where it can 328 00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:03,639 Speaker 1: erupt and physical aggressiveness or passive aggressiveness where they're, you know, 329 00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:06,800 Speaker 1: ignoring their friend and their friend has no idea. Why. Yeah, 330 00:20:06,840 --> 00:20:10,679 Speaker 1: that's basically another way to put it. It's high school. Yeah, 331 00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:14,000 Speaker 1: like you know, and I was. I sort of became 332 00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:16,320 Speaker 1: friends with a popular crowd in about the tenth grade, 333 00:20:16,359 --> 00:20:19,679 Speaker 1: and I never remember being jealous because I was just 334 00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:24,159 Speaker 1: so excited to be in the cool club. So I 335 00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:26,280 Speaker 1: was never jealous. I was just like, yeah, I like everybody, 336 00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:29,119 Speaker 1: and everybody likes me, and it's all great, but it 337 00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:31,920 Speaker 1: was the girlfriend that I was jealous of, but I 338 00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:34,040 Speaker 1: had reason to be. I think I think it's pretty 339 00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:36,800 Speaker 1: normal too. I think high school is how do you? 340 00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:38,760 Speaker 1: How do you ever make it through there? Don't know. 341 00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:41,840 Speaker 1: I always feel so bad for kids that like take 342 00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:44,720 Speaker 1: their own lives in high school because it's just like 343 00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:48,679 Speaker 1: just just hung on a couple more years, you know, 344 00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:52,199 Speaker 1: gets so much better. Believe me, Yeah, we can message 345 00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:53,800 Speaker 1: that out to our high school friends. If you're lonely 346 00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:57,320 Speaker 1: and depressed out there on so much better. High school 347 00:20:57,359 --> 00:21:00,720 Speaker 1: is really the anyone who who's high school was the 348 00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:03,800 Speaker 1: high point of their lives, they are the sad people 349 00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:10,320 Speaker 1: in your past eventually exactly. Um so chuck uh. The 350 00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:14,399 Speaker 1: that study I was talking about in developmental psychology, it 351 00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:18,520 Speaker 1: was pretty comprehensive. They interviewed ninth graders and asked them 352 00:21:18,760 --> 00:21:23,919 Speaker 1: about hypothetical situations and found, um, it was reinforced that 353 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:27,640 Speaker 1: girls tend to be more jealous than guys. Um, which 354 00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:29,600 Speaker 1: is something that I think psychology is having a lot 355 00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:33,240 Speaker 1: of trouble like addressing because it's just such a m 356 00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:37,960 Speaker 1: It's a misogynist finding girls are jealous. It's so cliche. 357 00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:42,040 Speaker 1: It's so the other word I'm trying to think of. Um, 358 00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:48,000 Speaker 1: but it apparently is this open secret in psychological research 359 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:51,760 Speaker 1: into jealousy, right, or again, like you're saying, or are 360 00:21:52,080 --> 00:22:01,119 Speaker 1: girls more emotionally Uh, what's the word? Um? Honest? Expressive? Honest? Yeah, 361 00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:04,400 Speaker 1: but when it comes down to a study, there's no distinction. Yeah, 362 00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:06,960 Speaker 1: that's true. I mean it's open displays of jealousy that 363 00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:10,280 Speaker 1: you're looking for, or at least honesty in whether or 364 00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:13,040 Speaker 1: not you'd be on jealous right. And I could see 365 00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:14,919 Speaker 1: a lot of high school boys not being in a 366 00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:17,400 Speaker 1: study like this, not wanting a cop to it. Yeah 367 00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:21,280 Speaker 1: for sure. Yeah, Um, you're talking about types of jealousy. 368 00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:28,000 Speaker 1: Adolescent jealousy is racked with sibling rivalry, right. Um, that's 369 00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:33,359 Speaker 1: just I was second fiddle to my um middle sister, 370 00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:36,240 Speaker 1: like my whole Still to this day, I'm like the 371 00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:38,560 Speaker 1: baby of the family. I'm like, oh, you know, I'm 372 00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:41,199 Speaker 1: going to be on TV next week and everybody's just 373 00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:45,840 Speaker 1: like whatever, So, Mandy, how are the kids? Uh you 374 00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:50,640 Speaker 1: know about my my handsomer, thinner, smarter, older brother. Yeah, 375 00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:54,240 Speaker 1: he and I correspond pretty regularly these days. He guys 376 00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:57,040 Speaker 1: writing each other, does that make you jealous? Does uh? 377 00:22:57,080 --> 00:23:00,439 Speaker 1: He he is was always better than at me school 378 00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:03,480 Speaker 1: and you know, better looking, and like I said, he's 379 00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:05,840 Speaker 1: in better shape. But we were I was never jealous 380 00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:07,919 Speaker 1: of him because my parents were always really good about 381 00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:11,000 Speaker 1: just they didn't you know, Scott was good at this 382 00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:14,239 Speaker 1: and you're you're good in other areas, and they were 383 00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:16,679 Speaker 1: good about building me up, and you're good at growing 384 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:19,760 Speaker 1: facial hair. Yeah, exactly, Well, actually that is where I 385 00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:22,439 Speaker 1: beat him. Yeah, he's he's a little he's he can 386 00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:24,919 Speaker 1: grow a little goatee and a little stash, but he 387 00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:27,800 Speaker 1: struggles in the facial hair department. Good. Maybe he's jealous 388 00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:29,800 Speaker 1: of my facial I bet he is. He would never 389 00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:32,040 Speaker 1: admit a chuck, but he is okay take it from me, 390 00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:34,199 Speaker 1: and he never rubbed it into That can make you jealous, 391 00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:35,920 Speaker 1: I guess if he stuffs it in your face. But 392 00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:38,760 Speaker 1: we just always got along really great. Yeah. And you 393 00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:42,760 Speaker 1: were saying did your parents stay out of it? Um? Yeah, 394 00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:45,000 Speaker 1: I mean they stayed out of fights when we had him, 395 00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:48,480 Speaker 1: and they definitely didn't say, Well, look at Scott's report 396 00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:51,760 Speaker 1: card compared to yours. He got a's and you've got bees. Yeah, Well, 397 00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:55,600 Speaker 1: who does that unless you're like a sadistic out there, 398 00:23:55,840 --> 00:24:00,280 Speaker 1: that's crazy. Um. Yeah, my parents stayed out of mine 399 00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:05,280 Speaker 1: and my sister's relationship to UM, And apparently that's the right, 400 00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:09,560 Speaker 1: that's the that's the way to UM single handedly pretty much, 401 00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:13,760 Speaker 1: but that's apparently the way to go according to some 402 00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:17,800 Speaker 1: uh child psychologists, like stay out of it, let them 403 00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:21,840 Speaker 1: handle it themselves, because um, not only are they learning 404 00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:25,080 Speaker 1: how to, but you might also actually like one more 405 00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:27,359 Speaker 1: than the other. And then you come through loud and 406 00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:32,640 Speaker 1: clear to the one when you unconsciously side with the other, right, UM. 407 00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:35,199 Speaker 1: So apparently let your kids as long as they're not 408 00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:38,200 Speaker 1: beating the tar out of each other, you're all right. Right. 409 00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:42,280 Speaker 1: So that was a sibling rivalry, which is also called 410 00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:46,120 Speaker 1: family jealousy. UM. And then I imagine there's other types 411 00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:49,639 Speaker 1: of family jealousy to like, um, apparent one parent being 412 00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:52,080 Speaker 1: jealous of the other because they're getting all the attention 413 00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:55,560 Speaker 1: of the kids. But that exists, um. And then of 414 00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:59,600 Speaker 1: course there is well there's all sorts of complexes at 415 00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:03,919 Speaker 1: a pole electoral, just all sorts of crazy family dynamics 416 00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:05,800 Speaker 1: going on. I got older sister too. I never talked 417 00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:08,920 Speaker 1: about Michelle. I should mention that she's six years older, 418 00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:12,200 Speaker 1: so there was no there was no jealousy between like 419 00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:15,160 Speaker 1: the sexes. We were all our own people. How how 420 00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:17,760 Speaker 1: how much older is your brother? It's three years in 421 00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:23,280 Speaker 1: six years, so three three and three romantic jealousy, Josh, 422 00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:25,840 Speaker 1: you wanna talk about that? That's really the big one. Yes, 423 00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:29,400 Speaker 1: this is the one where apparently everyone else on the planet, 424 00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:33,199 Speaker 1: but you and Emily experienced this. I know plenty of 425 00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:38,120 Speaker 1: couples who aren't jealous of each other. Yeah really, yeah, 426 00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:43,000 Speaker 1: is that news to you? Yeah, I've I've never ever 427 00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:47,760 Speaker 1: had a relationship that, like, didn't have some jealousy here. 428 00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:50,879 Speaker 1: There wasn't a constant, it wasn't a thread, and it 429 00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:56,120 Speaker 1: wasn't debilitating by any means. Right, I've never I've never 430 00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:59,960 Speaker 1: been in a relationship that didn't have that didn't exhibit 431 00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:03,200 Speaker 1: some form of jealousy somehow. And I don't I don't 432 00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:05,480 Speaker 1: know that I would feel comfortable in one that doesn't. 433 00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:09,640 Speaker 1: I wonder if it's over sharing. But that's how that's how. Well, 434 00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:11,159 Speaker 1: let me ask you this. You go to a party 435 00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:14,120 Speaker 1: with you me, you split up, and you see her 436 00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:16,879 Speaker 1: over at the beer keg because you know the keggers 437 00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:18,879 Speaker 1: were good to see at this age just talking to 438 00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:21,760 Speaker 1: some guy. Would you immediately feel jealousy or just think 439 00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:30,000 Speaker 1: she's just talking to some guy? Um? Honestly, UM, I 440 00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:33,920 Speaker 1: would say that in that situation because I trust her, 441 00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:36,840 Speaker 1: I would assume that she's talking to some guy. But 442 00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:40,760 Speaker 1: I would eventually go over there if it like continued 443 00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:42,840 Speaker 1: or if she saw her talking later on or something 444 00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:45,600 Speaker 1: like that, And UM, it wouldn't be for her. I 445 00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:50,760 Speaker 1: wouldn't be trying to intervene toward her. It would be like, hey, guy, 446 00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:53,280 Speaker 1: she's got a boyfriend kind of you know what I mean? 447 00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:57,720 Speaker 1: You want to go? I know her and I trust her, Um, 448 00:26:57,760 --> 00:26:59,560 Speaker 1: and I don't know that guy, right, And I know 449 00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:02,680 Speaker 1: that I don't know the guy and the guy doesn't 450 00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:05,239 Speaker 1: know I exist or whatever, although knowing you me, he 451 00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:07,600 Speaker 1: does know I exist. So that just makes me more 452 00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:10,360 Speaker 1: app to go over and be like take a hike. 453 00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:12,240 Speaker 1: For all you know, he could be dropping a roofy 454 00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:15,639 Speaker 1: in her in her That's exactly right, And this is 455 00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:18,000 Speaker 1: why I think that there is it is healthy to 456 00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:20,240 Speaker 1: experience some form of jealousy, because if I was totally 457 00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:22,639 Speaker 1: not jealous, I wouldn't have gone over there. I wouldn't 458 00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:25,119 Speaker 1: have cared, and you know, I would have had my 459 00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:27,920 Speaker 1: back to my girlfriend, which whatever, I don't think that's 460 00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:31,040 Speaker 1: a good thing. I guess that's me then no, No, 461 00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:35,840 Speaker 1: But here's the thing, Chuck, I guarantee you. I guarantee you. 462 00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:39,320 Speaker 1: We're going to get listener mail supporting your view and 463 00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:41,879 Speaker 1: supporting my view. I don't think there's a right or 464 00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:45,600 Speaker 1: wrong view. I think you should you know, when there's 465 00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:50,919 Speaker 1: an uncomfortable amount of jealousy in your relationship or a 466 00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:55,960 Speaker 1: bunch you know, you know, and if you're getting beat 467 00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:59,800 Speaker 1: up because your husband or boyfriend's jealous and you don't know, 468 00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:04,240 Speaker 1: go get help because you that's too much. Well, you 469 00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:06,560 Speaker 1: may not know if you're really jealous, though, because a 470 00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:08,639 Speaker 1: lot of people might think, well, that's completely normal to 471 00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:11,480 Speaker 1: be abnormally jealous, right, Well, we're here to tell you. 472 00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:15,119 Speaker 1: And again this applies to women beating up. Man. If 473 00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:18,119 Speaker 1: you're getting beat up by your significant other out of 474 00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:21,600 Speaker 1: jealousy for any reason, really, that's not okay. That's that's wrong. 475 00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:25,280 Speaker 1: Like no other people who also listen to this podcast 476 00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:30,000 Speaker 1: think that your relationship is wrong. Everybody out here thinks 477 00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:34,159 Speaker 1: that what's being done to you is wrong. It's a 478 00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:36,480 Speaker 1: good way to put it. Uh. They did find that 479 00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:40,280 Speaker 1: romantic jealousy is uh. Usually the first fight that a 480 00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:43,440 Speaker 1: couple will have is over some sort of romantic jealousy, 481 00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:46,200 Speaker 1: whereas later on in life it's all about money, money, 482 00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:49,520 Speaker 1: and if you're if you're lucky, it's about money. As 483 00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:52,040 Speaker 1: long as you're not fighting about trash, who takes who 484 00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:55,120 Speaker 1: takes the trash out, you're fine. Really. Yeah, the once 485 00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:58,080 Speaker 1: you start finding about the little stupid things, that's a 486 00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:00,960 Speaker 1: big problem, you think, so, and my experience, we should 487 00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:04,640 Speaker 1: start a relationship show people just like what we think 488 00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:06,440 Speaker 1: about things. All right, let's get back to the science, 489 00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:10,120 Speaker 1: shall we. Uh. There is work jealousy, of course, and 490 00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:13,640 Speaker 1: that is a really ugly thing to have in the workplace. 491 00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:16,840 Speaker 1: And that is obviously when people are buying for the 492 00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:18,840 Speaker 1: same jobs, are looking for the same promotion or the 493 00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:21,680 Speaker 1: same pay raise or the same whatever, and other people 494 00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:24,760 Speaker 1: are getting it and or a person gets that raise 495 00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:26,680 Speaker 1: over you, and it's just it's it's one of the 496 00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:29,000 Speaker 1: uglier types of jealousy that I've seen. It is And 497 00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:30,840 Speaker 1: you know, what I think is cute? What's that? And 498 00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:33,440 Speaker 1: this is how I feel about you? If I'm ever 499 00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:35,920 Speaker 1: jealous of you. It falls much more into the sibling 500 00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:39,200 Speaker 1: rivalry than work jealousy. I thought you're can Sara romantic. 501 00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:43,520 Speaker 1: I was about say, thank god, thank god. So what 502 00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:47,040 Speaker 1: more sibling rivals than work? Yeah? Well that's because we're 503 00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:51,560 Speaker 1: we're peers, and we wish the best on each other. 504 00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:56,200 Speaker 1: Like occasionally we'll get individual opportunities, not often, but sometimes, 505 00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:59,480 Speaker 1: like you write for HuffPo, occasionally. I didn't think you 506 00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:02,760 Speaker 1: cared about that. Well, no, that's what I'm saying. Well, 507 00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:05,160 Speaker 1: that's what my point is is that we're real supportive 508 00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:07,440 Speaker 1: of each other's Like I wrote for Cosmo last week, 509 00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:09,960 Speaker 1: you wrote for HuffPo. You wrote for Cosmo. I should 510 00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:13,200 Speaker 1: be jealous because HuffPo Cosmo. No, no, no, you wrote 511 00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:16,720 Speaker 1: for Cosmo. Yeah. You didn't tell me this, What are 512 00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:19,400 Speaker 1: you jealous? No? But I'm proud of you. You're supposed 513 00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:22,480 Speaker 1: to tell I was kind of like, you know, Cosmo, 514 00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:25,360 Speaker 1: I wanted to know about stress, and that's awesome. It's 515 00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:28,320 Speaker 1: like being mad at your boyfriend gives you pimples and stuff. 516 00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:32,760 Speaker 1: That's awesome. Chuck, not as heady as hufbo. Hey, Well regardless, Chuck, 517 00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:35,480 Speaker 1: I'm proud of you, so you sent me that link 518 00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:37,880 Speaker 1: after this, Okay, well when it publishes it well, and 519 00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:41,520 Speaker 1: pride is a self conscious emotion. Uh. And then Josh, 520 00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:43,479 Speaker 1: we've talked about this kind of off and on. But 521 00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:47,840 Speaker 1: abnormal jealously is I think what they called it many things, 522 00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:52,560 Speaker 1: psychotic behavior, delusional, morbid. It's also referred to largely as 523 00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:58,600 Speaker 1: neurotic jealousy neurotic where it's a habitual, possibly unfounded or 524 00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:02,480 Speaker 1: at the very um detrimental to the relationship. Yeah, and 525 00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:04,720 Speaker 1: they said it could be uh for a lot of reasons. 526 00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:07,840 Speaker 1: Um insecurity of course, always back to that immaturity again 527 00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:10,560 Speaker 1: and being a control freak, which I thought was kind 528 00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:13,440 Speaker 1: of interesting. It can also be um the result like 529 00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:18,200 Speaker 1: we said, of having your trust broken, Chuck, or having 530 00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:20,959 Speaker 1: feel like the trust was broken even when it hasn't happened. Right. 531 00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:23,440 Speaker 1: But I think if you've broken someone's trust, you know it, 532 00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:27,000 Speaker 1: like to a debilitating degree, you know it, right, And 533 00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:30,240 Speaker 1: there's actually a lot of help out there. Are you 534 00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:34,880 Speaker 1: people who if you've broken someone's trust and you don't 535 00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:38,280 Speaker 1: care to find out how to rebuild it, probably just 536 00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:41,520 Speaker 1: move along. But if you do care, then there's actual 537 00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:45,440 Speaker 1: like steps to rebuilding trust, and we actually did a 538 00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:49,719 Speaker 1: little digging around and found something right. That's right. So UM, 539 00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:53,160 Speaker 1: we found that I think anybody who says seven steps 540 00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:56,560 Speaker 1: to rebuilding trust in like ten minutes, it's not going 541 00:31:56,600 --> 00:31:59,080 Speaker 1: to happen. One of the things that we found in 542 00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:03,240 Speaker 1: our research was that if you're rebuilding trust broken trust, 543 00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:06,400 Speaker 1: it's always going to take longer than you think it's 544 00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:09,320 Speaker 1: going to I would like triple what you think you 545 00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:11,840 Speaker 1: can't I I think even that would probably fall short. 546 00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:14,480 Speaker 1: I think once you start thinking about how long it's 547 00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:16,800 Speaker 1: going to take, you've lost focus and you need to 548 00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:20,120 Speaker 1: refocus on rebuilding trust with the person. So the first 549 00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:23,600 Speaker 1: thing that you have to do is tell your partner, 550 00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:29,520 Speaker 1: whether it's your friend, your spouse, your UM, the love 551 00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:32,840 Speaker 1: of your life, your co host on your podcast, your workmate, 552 00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:37,040 Speaker 1: whoever you broken trust with UM you you you want 553 00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:39,120 Speaker 1: them to know that you understand their feelings, that you're 554 00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:41,880 Speaker 1: wrong them right, and that you're sorry, and that you 555 00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:45,840 Speaker 1: feel totally cool with the fact that they hate you 556 00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:48,760 Speaker 1: right now and you're completely responsible. You have to own 557 00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:51,360 Speaker 1: that completely, I would think totally. Because some people break 558 00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:52,880 Speaker 1: trust and they kind of try and put it back 559 00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:55,479 Speaker 1: on you a little bit, which is a natural human emotion. 560 00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:59,160 Speaker 1: I think to try and deflect blame, but it's always 561 00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:01,680 Speaker 1: better if you just keep it yourself. Well, you don't 562 00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:04,080 Speaker 1: want to heap it like you want. You want to 563 00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:07,000 Speaker 1: have a conversation, and yeah, you want to accept responsibility 564 00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:08,640 Speaker 1: for what you did. Some of the things you don't 565 00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:11,719 Speaker 1: want to do is withdraw, um, attack back like you 566 00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:15,280 Speaker 1: were saying, or offer excuses or explanations. You want to 567 00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:18,720 Speaker 1: do that and apologize, not attack back, but you want 568 00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:23,640 Speaker 1: to offer an explanation and apologize in reverse order. After 569 00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:26,960 Speaker 1: you've said, I understand that you're mad, and all of 570 00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:28,960 Speaker 1: this might not take place in like a ten or 571 00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:32,920 Speaker 1: fifteen minute conversation. This could take place over months, depending 572 00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:35,960 Speaker 1: on how badly you've hurt the other person. Right, Um, 573 00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:39,040 Speaker 1: but yeah, after you have said I know I've hurt you, 574 00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:42,520 Speaker 1: and I take responsibility. Um, you want to apologize. You 575 00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:46,040 Speaker 1: want to explain your point of view. Basically, you want 576 00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:48,600 Speaker 1: to say, this is why I did this, even if 577 00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:53,640 Speaker 1: it's as wrong as because I'm a selfish piece jerk. 578 00:33:54,280 --> 00:34:00,280 Speaker 1: Selfish jerk. Um, that's an explanation, right, It's how the 579 00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:03,040 Speaker 1: person understand why it happened, which I think is a 580 00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:04,840 Speaker 1: big part of it. Right, Yeah, I would want I 581 00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:07,440 Speaker 1: would just recommend stopping short of trying to defend your 582 00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:10,120 Speaker 1: actions though, because there's a difference. Right. Right, You're not 583 00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:12,279 Speaker 1: saying it was right, you're saying why you did it. 584 00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:16,160 Speaker 1: Those two are separate, or why it's right is layered 585 00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:19,759 Speaker 1: on the explanation. Right. And you want to make promises, 586 00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:21,480 Speaker 1: Actually you want to go out of your way to 587 00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:23,759 Speaker 1: make promises. You you don't want to say I make 588 00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:27,720 Speaker 1: no promises. This changes our relationship. You can't expect anything 589 00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:32,680 Speaker 1: from me. You make promises by saying this is you 590 00:34:32,680 --> 00:34:35,160 Speaker 1: know what you can expect of me in the future, 591 00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:37,600 Speaker 1: and it can be Um. One of the examples that 592 00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:41,160 Speaker 1: was used in this was, um, if you if you 593 00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:44,040 Speaker 1: lie to your wife so you can go play golf 594 00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:48,360 Speaker 1: with your buddies on a Saturday morning, which is wow. Um, 595 00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:53,600 Speaker 1: you want to promise to spend you know, every Saturday 596 00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:56,799 Speaker 1: for the next two months with your family, or you 597 00:34:56,840 --> 00:34:59,360 Speaker 1: could just a little maybe, or you could go to 598 00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:00,839 Speaker 1: your wife to begin with and say, hey, I'm gonna 599 00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:03,760 Speaker 1: play golf on Saturday, right, or even can I depending 600 00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:06,680 Speaker 1: on your relationship, but yeah, lying to your wife to 601 00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:09,200 Speaker 1: go play golf with your buddies. It's like a Bob 602 00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:14,680 Speaker 1: Hope short from the fifties or Kevin James sitcom. Have 603 00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:17,960 Speaker 1: you got anything else on trust there? Um? Well, yeah, 604 00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:19,680 Speaker 1: you want to make promises. One of the things you 605 00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:22,760 Speaker 1: want to do is not over exert yourself with promises. 606 00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:25,560 Speaker 1: You don't want to make fantastic promises because the worst 607 00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:28,240 Speaker 1: thing you can do is not follow through on your promises, 608 00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:30,319 Speaker 1: and you just broken trust again, right, And you also 609 00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:32,400 Speaker 1: want to make promises that are not just agreeable to 610 00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:34,799 Speaker 1: the person that you have who's trust you broken, but 611 00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:37,640 Speaker 1: to yourself as well, because if you're like, well, for 612 00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:40,360 Speaker 1: the love of God, I'm like, you know, I've lied 613 00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:42,440 Speaker 1: about playing golf with my buddies and now I have 614 00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:44,920 Speaker 1: to go get some moon dust because I promised I would. 615 00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:47,640 Speaker 1: You're gonna probably resent your partner. So you want to 616 00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:51,640 Speaker 1: come to a consensus about what's okay. Um, And then, 617 00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:54,359 Speaker 1: like we said, you want to keep promises, and then 618 00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:57,160 Speaker 1: you want to kind of discuss how things are going. Um. 619 00:35:57,200 --> 00:35:59,440 Speaker 1: There's a lot of steps to this, but again the 620 00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:03,600 Speaker 1: rule of them is, um, apologize or say you understand 621 00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:08,160 Speaker 1: why their feelings are hurt, and take responsibility apologize, explain, 622 00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:11,239 Speaker 1: make promises, follow through on the promises, and just keep 623 00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:14,520 Speaker 1: an open dialogue. Try to hustle the other person. Yeah, 624 00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:17,600 Speaker 1: if you're a male right now and you're thinking all 625 00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:21,759 Speaker 1: those steps come on, that's called being in a relationship, 626 00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:23,640 Speaker 1: right and it does take a lot of work in 627 00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:25,600 Speaker 1: a lot of steps, and it does if you're gonna 628 00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:27,200 Speaker 1: be in a happy one, dude, that's what you gotta do. 629 00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:30,040 Speaker 1: And you will know when it's worth it. Oh, sure 630 00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:34,719 Speaker 1: you'll know or when to cut bait, So chuck, I 631 00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:37,200 Speaker 1: guess that's it. Oh well, no, no, we got I 632 00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:40,160 Speaker 1: got a few more things. We never finished on. Abnormal 633 00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:45,359 Speaker 1: jealousy actually, uh, because there's a switch that happens sometimes 634 00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:49,000 Speaker 1: between normal jealousy that leads to abnormal and dr Hoopka 635 00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:51,799 Speaker 1: says it's not always easy to spot and define when 636 00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:54,520 Speaker 1: that happens, but you should be aware of it if 637 00:36:54,520 --> 00:36:57,040 Speaker 1: you're in a relationship because it can't get really bad. 638 00:36:57,120 --> 00:37:00,200 Speaker 1: You know if when they throw acid on you, or hey, 639 00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:03,360 Speaker 1: someone to throw acid on you. Did that happen? Yeah, 640 00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:09,440 Speaker 1: there was a picture in the article. Yeah, really weird. Uh. 641 00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:11,680 Speaker 1: He says that a few things you can look for though, 642 00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:15,560 Speaker 1: if for abnormal jealousy is if, like, you go out 643 00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:17,600 Speaker 1: or something, you're given permission, or you just go out 644 00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:19,759 Speaker 1: with your friends and your mate is always calling to 645 00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:23,440 Speaker 1: check in on you. That's something that you should look for. 646 00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:25,520 Speaker 1: Or if they're going through your telephone book or your 647 00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:29,359 Speaker 1: like text or your address book, that's probably abnormal jealousy too. 648 00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:32,839 Speaker 1: It is. And I have other unnamed people I know 649 00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:36,959 Speaker 1: it's a friend of mine. Who oh sure, the wife says, 650 00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:38,840 Speaker 1: you can go out with your friends. Oh, no problem, 651 00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:41,160 Speaker 1: I'm so cool. It's so cool. And then they get 652 00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:45,439 Speaker 1: out in the whole entire timet texts in a couple 653 00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:47,200 Speaker 1: of hours to the point where we just go why 654 00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:51,680 Speaker 1: you even bother coming out? Man? That's supportive, that's supportive. 655 00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:54,960 Speaker 1: What should I say? That's awesome? No, but I mean, like, 656 00:37:55,040 --> 00:37:58,160 Speaker 1: why you even bother coming out? That's kind of I mean, 657 00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:02,040 Speaker 1: I don't know. I can't wait to meet your unnamed friends, 658 00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:05,440 Speaker 1: like you're unnamed friend number two. I don't think they 659 00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:07,359 Speaker 1: listen to the podcast. They don't know, so I feel 660 00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:14,040 Speaker 1: pretty comfortable. Uh. And then one more two more things green, Yeah, 661 00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:18,640 Speaker 1: the ancient Greeks, right, that's what did you recognize that? 662 00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:22,520 Speaker 1: What do you mean recognize it turning green? Um because 663 00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:26,040 Speaker 1: of bile. Remember the four humors we talked about happiness 664 00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:30,840 Speaker 1: audiobook that's hitt hint. Yeah, uh yeah. They think that 665 00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:33,880 Speaker 1: came from a build up of bile when you're jealous 666 00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:38,160 Speaker 1: or envious and would actually turn your skin greeny. Yellow 667 00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:40,960 Speaker 1: bible will turn your skin green. I think I think 668 00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:43,520 Speaker 1: it would be green bile. Yeah, there's a but well 669 00:38:43,520 --> 00:38:47,360 Speaker 1: there isn't. There's yellow bile, black bile, blood, and flagm 670 00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:51,160 Speaker 1: were the four humors. I like black bile. We're we're 671 00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:53,640 Speaker 1: both black bile and a little bit of a blood. 672 00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:56,600 Speaker 1: We're both sanguine and melancholy. And can we talk about 673 00:38:56,600 --> 00:39:01,600 Speaker 1: animals real quick? Uh? Animals actually show jealousy, forms of jealousy. 674 00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:05,000 Speaker 1: They don't know, they don't chuck this if you read this. 675 00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:08,600 Speaker 1: A sense of fairness does not indicate jealousy. And what's more, 676 00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:12,240 Speaker 1: the the animals may have envied the other animals treat 677 00:39:13,239 --> 00:39:15,360 Speaker 1: The Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences did a 678 00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:19,960 Speaker 1: study where they tested dogs to give them treats when 679 00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:23,520 Speaker 1: they would shake, you know, as a reward. Yeah, And 680 00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:26,799 Speaker 1: they saw that if another dog was getting a you know, 681 00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:29,080 Speaker 1: a treat a piece of food afterwards, the other what 682 00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:32,800 Speaker 1: wasn't that the dog that wasn't would eventually, after a 683 00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:35,120 Speaker 1: couple of times, would be like, I'm not shaking right 684 00:39:35,239 --> 00:39:38,480 Speaker 1: until I get some uh some food. And they tested 685 00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:42,239 Speaker 1: that in monkeys, and they found that the monkeys got 686 00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:46,040 Speaker 1: jealous over the kind of treat, even jealous. The ones 687 00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:48,480 Speaker 1: that got a cucumber were like, at first, oh, this 688 00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:50,320 Speaker 1: is great, I get a cucumber for a treat, And 689 00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:52,480 Speaker 1: then they noticed that their buddy was getting a grape, 690 00:39:52,520 --> 00:39:54,400 Speaker 1: which tastes a lot better I cast to a monkey. 691 00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:58,359 Speaker 1: And the monkeys would actually just stop performing because they 692 00:39:58,360 --> 00:40:00,400 Speaker 1: didn't get a treat as good as the other monkey. 693 00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:02,200 Speaker 1: You know, it's weird. That came up when we were 694 00:40:02,239 --> 00:40:04,960 Speaker 1: doing research for our super Stuff Guide to the Economy 695 00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:07,719 Speaker 1: audio book. Oh that's right, I knew that sounded yeah, familiar. 696 00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:11,719 Speaker 1: It was that your key's at the emery down the street. Um. See, 697 00:40:11,719 --> 00:40:14,000 Speaker 1: the thing is, Chuck is that's a sense of fairness. 698 00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:16,200 Speaker 1: It's not the same thing as jealousy. And I don't 699 00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:18,680 Speaker 1: think that the Proceedings of the National Academy of Science 700 00:40:18,680 --> 00:40:21,000 Speaker 1: has got it wrong. I think MPR did because sometimes 701 00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:23,880 Speaker 1: MPR and gets things wrong much has it pained me 702 00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:27,759 Speaker 1: to say it five times per podcast? We get something wrong? 703 00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:31,759 Speaker 1: So for podcasts for podcast uh, you know, you might 704 00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:35,920 Speaker 1: say jealous, Some say elephants get jealous. Elephants can remember. 705 00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:40,360 Speaker 1: It's hard to tell with animals because you can't ask well. Currently, 706 00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:44,600 Speaker 1: the prevailing scientific way of looking at it is animals 707 00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:46,880 Speaker 1: don't have a sense of self enough to have to 708 00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:51,120 Speaker 1: experience secondary emotions like jealousy or shame or embarrassment. You 709 00:40:51,239 --> 00:40:54,120 Speaker 1: have to have a conscious sense of self. I think 710 00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:56,719 Speaker 1: animals do. But science is like, we'll prove it, and 711 00:40:56,719 --> 00:40:58,600 Speaker 1: we haven't figured out how to prove it yet. So 712 00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:01,640 Speaker 1: that's where we're standing. You ready, I see you've got 713 00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:04,480 Speaker 1: a fine piece of listener mail right there. Yeah. Do 714 00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:06,320 Speaker 1: you have anything else? Nope. So if you want to 715 00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:10,280 Speaker 1: learn more about jealousy, trust all that kind of stuff, 716 00:41:10,640 --> 00:41:14,160 Speaker 1: you can type jealousy or trust into the swing and 717 00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:17,200 Speaker 1: search bar at how Stuff works dot Com. Since I 718 00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:22,040 Speaker 1: said that, I think now nowadays it's time for listener man. 719 00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:25,920 Speaker 1: It is Josh. I'm gonna call this just one of 720 00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:30,960 Speaker 1: many polygamy emails. We got it blew up, it really did. 721 00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:33,720 Speaker 1: We got something from we got one from lou Bega. 722 00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:36,120 Speaker 1: Did you see you know? We got two emails from 723 00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:38,520 Speaker 1: lou Bega. And I wrote him back the first time 724 00:41:38,520 --> 00:41:41,560 Speaker 1: because he said, Hey, guys, I'm not pumping gas. I'm 725 00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:44,040 Speaker 1: I'm slicing meat at a deli, just so you know. 726 00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:46,040 Speaker 1: And I wrote him back and said slice at then 727 00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:49,760 Speaker 1: lou And then he wrote back again and said about 728 00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:53,000 Speaker 1: the Mormon one of the Polygamy podcast, Yes he was. 729 00:41:53,080 --> 00:41:56,920 Speaker 1: He was defining. Do you think I'm kind of leaning 730 00:41:56,960 --> 00:41:58,959 Speaker 1: toward it, dude. I wrote him back today and said, listen, 731 00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:01,200 Speaker 1: if this is the real loup Ega of hit song fame, 732 00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:03,279 Speaker 1: they'n I'm gonna need photographic of it. That's what I 733 00:42:03,360 --> 00:42:05,560 Speaker 1: was thinking too, But I didn't have time to email him, 734 00:42:05,560 --> 00:42:07,440 Speaker 1: So I'm glad you didn't want a picture of blue Bega. 735 00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:09,200 Speaker 1: You'd see see me on these That kind of makes 736 00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:11,680 Speaker 1: me jealous that I don't see see you on fanmail 737 00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:16,240 Speaker 1: when it's lou Bega. It depends on who it is. Okay, 738 00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:18,640 Speaker 1: we'll see seeing me on the rest, but especially if 739 00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:20,759 Speaker 1: you send in photo of it. What's funny is he's 740 00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:22,839 Speaker 1: going to send a picture himself. You're gonna be like, wait, 741 00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:25,160 Speaker 1: what the hell, little lou Big it look like now 742 00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:27,480 Speaker 1: I remember, he looks like what if he doesn't wear 743 00:42:27,560 --> 00:42:30,200 Speaker 1: po door? I wonder in the Delhi if he's like 744 00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:35,880 Speaker 1: a little bit of turkey, a little bit of pumper nickel. No, 745 00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:41,319 Speaker 1: some rye, oh dear. So this one, like I said, 746 00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:44,280 Speaker 1: we heard from a lot of um people from the 747 00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:46,319 Speaker 1: Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints. A lot 748 00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:48,319 Speaker 1: of people said, it's really great, you got it right. 749 00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:49,960 Speaker 1: A lot of people said he got it all wrong, 750 00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:53,160 Speaker 1: or they said we didn't distinguish that enough. I disagree. 751 00:42:53,239 --> 00:42:56,920 Speaker 1: I think we said quite plainly that that most Mormons 752 00:42:56,920 --> 00:42:59,960 Speaker 1: don't do this, and that this is the fundamentalist Mormon, 753 00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:04,160 Speaker 1: and like with a capital at fundamentalist Mormons. Well, and 754 00:43:04,239 --> 00:43:07,879 Speaker 1: a distinction between the Church of Latter day Saints and Mornerism. Right, 755 00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:11,279 Speaker 1: maybe that's what the distinction wants. Maybe we'll have a 756 00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:14,160 Speaker 1: whole another bath. This is from Susan. Hey, guys, have 757 00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:16,120 Speaker 1: said it before, I'll say it again. You guys are awesome. 758 00:43:16,160 --> 00:43:19,080 Speaker 1: I just had a few clarifications about the Mormons concerning 759 00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:22,240 Speaker 1: their practice of polygamy in your recent podcasts. I myself 760 00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:24,360 Speaker 1: am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of 761 00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:26,960 Speaker 1: Latter day Saints and a history buff on this topic 762 00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:30,120 Speaker 1: because a few of my ancestors were early members who 763 00:43:30,120 --> 00:43:34,000 Speaker 1: practice polygamy. Polygamy was not a blanket requirement for being 764 00:43:34,040 --> 00:43:36,520 Speaker 1: a good member of the Church of Jesus Christ of 765 00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:38,800 Speaker 1: Latter day Saints. It was only practiced by a small 766 00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:41,439 Speaker 1: portion of the membership of the church, and was only 767 00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:44,399 Speaker 1: done so at the discretion of the president of the church. 768 00:43:44,760 --> 00:43:46,520 Speaker 1: You couldn't just decide to do it yourself unless you 769 00:43:46,560 --> 00:43:51,040 Speaker 1: wanted to be excommunicated and or seriously disciplined. Uh. Those 770 00:43:51,040 --> 00:43:53,479 Speaker 1: men who were asked to practice polygamy were mostly leaders 771 00:43:53,520 --> 00:43:55,600 Speaker 1: of the church, and all parties were willing and gave 772 00:43:55,640 --> 00:43:58,400 Speaker 1: their consent to the marriages. You mentioned that after the 773 00:43:58,440 --> 00:44:02,320 Speaker 1: church stopped practicing give me, they promised to excommunicate any 774 00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:05,000 Speaker 1: who continue to do so. But even when they advocated 775 00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:08,480 Speaker 1: the practice, it was selectively practiced among the leaders of 776 00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:10,680 Speaker 1: the church. I have to say, in this day and age, 777 00:44:10,719 --> 00:44:12,360 Speaker 1: I would be hard pressed to find a good reason 778 00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:14,839 Speaker 1: to practice polygamy, at least in the Western world. Back 779 00:44:14,840 --> 00:44:18,200 Speaker 1: in the pioneer times of wagons and gas lamps, I 780 00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:21,960 Speaker 1: could see some benefits. My great great great great grandmother 781 00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:25,960 Speaker 1: who was a second wife. Uh said that not second 782 00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:29,040 Speaker 1: wife is in second of two active wives. I think 783 00:44:29,080 --> 00:44:32,800 Speaker 1: that's what she means that in a lonely, dreary, dangerous 784 00:44:32,800 --> 00:44:34,720 Speaker 1: part of the wilderness that she and the first wife 785 00:44:35,120 --> 00:44:37,520 Speaker 1: settled with their children and husband, it was comforting to 786 00:44:37,520 --> 00:44:39,759 Speaker 1: have a close friend and neighbor who she knew would 787 00:44:39,760 --> 00:44:42,279 Speaker 1: help them any moment for any reason, and there were 788 00:44:42,320 --> 00:44:45,120 Speaker 1: no other neighbors around for hundreds of miles back in 789 00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:48,080 Speaker 1: the day. As a member of LDS Faith, I appreciate 790 00:44:48,080 --> 00:44:50,920 Speaker 1: your respect in discussing the issues that are close to 791 00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:53,759 Speaker 1: my heart and in accurately representing facts that are so 792 00:44:53,840 --> 00:44:57,799 Speaker 1: often misreported and misconstrued. If you guys decided to do 793 00:44:57,800 --> 00:44:59,960 Speaker 1: a podcast on the LDS, I would recommend you visit 794 00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:04,359 Speaker 1: the church's official websites and access material there for clarification 795 00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:07,879 Speaker 1: of practices and beliefs. So uh, and she said, I'll 796 00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:09,960 Speaker 1: give you any help you need to, because I got 797 00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:13,359 Speaker 1: the nine one one nice before one one nice. That's 798 00:45:13,360 --> 00:45:16,120 Speaker 1: Susan B. Thanks Susan B. That was very kind of 799 00:45:16,160 --> 00:45:18,120 Speaker 1: you to take the time to write in and to 800 00:45:18,160 --> 00:45:21,640 Speaker 1: say we cheated it respectfully. We thought we did as 801 00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:24,399 Speaker 1: opposed to some people who did not think we did. 802 00:45:24,600 --> 00:45:31,120 Speaker 1: We tried to totally aside from the Swinger intro anyway, UM, 803 00:45:31,360 --> 00:45:33,799 Speaker 1: thank you very much for that, Susan, and everybody who 804 00:45:33,800 --> 00:45:36,960 Speaker 1: wrote in with their opinion one way or the other. 805 00:45:37,040 --> 00:45:39,360 Speaker 1: That's very cool, Um, and thanks for the bit of 806 00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:43,000 Speaker 1: history and research Susan. We always appreciate that if you 807 00:45:43,120 --> 00:45:48,120 Speaker 1: have a story about your best country hand month, we 808 00:45:48,160 --> 00:45:51,759 Speaker 1: want to hear about it. Wrap it up in a podcast. No, 809 00:45:51,920 --> 00:45:55,560 Speaker 1: wrap it up in an email, right? Or I guess 810 00:45:55,560 --> 00:45:58,440 Speaker 1: you could record a podcast on it and then email 811 00:45:58,560 --> 00:46:01,399 Speaker 1: that to us. He could do, or a link, uh 812 00:46:01,480 --> 00:46:04,480 Speaker 1: and send it to Chuck in Jerry and Me at 813 00:46:04,920 --> 00:46:13,000 Speaker 1: stuff podcast at how stuff works dot com. For more 814 00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:15,640 Speaker 1: on this and thousands of other topics, visit how stuff 815 00:46:15,640 --> 00:46:19,239 Speaker 1: works dot com. Want more how stuff works, check out 816 00:46:19,239 --> 00:46:21,800 Speaker 1: our blogs on the house stuff works dot com home page. 817 00:46:22,680 --> 00:46:27,280 Speaker 1: M brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera. 818 00:46:27,600 --> 00:46:28,759 Speaker 1: It's ready, are you