Speaker 1: Hi everybody, and welcome back to Katie's crib. In this episode,
Speaker 1: I want to give you guys a visual. But I
Speaker 1: am sitting here with two very good friends of mine,
Speaker 1: Jackie Sidon and Amy Mass, and we are sitting here
Speaker 1: with a bottle of solve Blanc. Yeah, Amy Mass, bottle,
Speaker 1: bottle of solve blanc. Because today's episode is about miscarriages. Um.
Speaker 1: This is a very painful, triggering topic. But again, like
Speaker 1: so many triggering and painful topics in motherhood, they really
Speaker 1: really need to be talked about. UM. A lot of
Speaker 1: women have had them. Just like to run some statistics
Speaker 1: by you guys, like ten pregnancies end in miscarriage, So
Speaker 1: that's like practically one in four, one in five, eight
Speaker 1: out of ten miscarriages happened in the first three months.
Speaker 1: And a miscarriage is when an embryo or fetus dies
Speaker 1: before the twenty week of Pray Nancy. UM. So I
Speaker 1: want to introduce you to my friends and we are
Speaker 1: having this glass of wine and we are going to
Speaker 1: talk about this topic and wine is hopefully going to
Speaker 1: help us really just get into um these experiences, because
Speaker 1: like I said, these numbers are staggered. I mean they're
Speaker 1: they're large. It's not it's crazy that we're talking about
Speaker 1: something that happens in one out of four or five pregnancies,
Speaker 1: and yet before it happened to me because yes, guys,
Speaker 1: I too had a miscarriage. Um, I hadn't talked about it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: did you guys have the same experience? And then everyone
Speaker 1: you tell says, oh, I did too. My mother, for example, Yes,
Speaker 1: she said I had a miscarriage and you didn't know
Speaker 1: she did? Know? What? Wow? Yeah? Same with my mother
Speaker 1: in law came out and said I had a miscarriage
Speaker 1: in one of the first and very something that really
Speaker 1: made me feel better about having one was she said
Speaker 1: I had one before I had your husband, and I
Speaker 1: wouldn't have had your husband had I not had one.
Speaker 1: UM So that made me feel better for maybe like
Speaker 1: five minutes. But um so, first and foremost, Amy Mass
Speaker 1: and Jackie Sidon, You guys, these are another two moms
Speaker 1: are very close to me, um and in my village. Um,
Speaker 1: do you guys prefer to when you're talking about your
Speaker 1: experiences the terminology used miscarriage, pregnancy loss, something else. I
Speaker 1: just say miscarriage. I do too, but I have no
Speaker 1: preference I say miscarriage too. I guess so. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: think that's that's what we're going to use today's crab.
Speaker 1: We're calling it miscarriage. I wonder if it's because it's
Speaker 1: more medical. It's almost easier to digest miscarriages. What was
Speaker 1: the other one, pregnancy loss? Yeah, I don't know, I've
Speaker 1: said miscarriage. Um, so Amy Mass when you had um
Speaker 1: your miscarriage. Now you have had talk us through your
Speaker 1: experience with miscarriage personally. Sure, we'll drink up that wine.
Speaker 1: And I like that you asked the common writer to
Speaker 1: come talk about the hilarious subject miscarriages. That's why you're
Speaker 1: at that we might be a little inappropriate, just humor.
Speaker 1: Humor has really proven multiple times to be a very
Speaker 1: helpful tool. Best medicine is the only way. Yes, And
Speaker 1: there were definitely some, even though obviously very sad moments,
Speaker 1: there were some really funny moments. Um. Yeah, So my experiences, UM,
Speaker 1: I had three, but I guess one was not considered
Speaker 1: a miscarriage because it was after twenty weeks. But the
Speaker 1: first two are called missed miscarriages, which means that when
Speaker 1: I went to the doctor around one was that eight
Speaker 1: weeks when was at ten UM there was no heartbeat,
Speaker 1: So I didn't actually go through a miscarriage where I
Speaker 1: was bleeding and had, you know, it was going through
Speaker 1: the pain of it at that time. I found out
Speaker 1: from the doctor I had the same thing. So wait,
Speaker 1: what did I didcarried? No? But you didn't have Oh
Speaker 1: she told you you had no heartbeat also, and then
Speaker 1: you we never got to that point. Well yes, so Arson, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think that's might be different than I think you'd
Speaker 1: like a real miss carriage. So well, so what this
Speaker 1: was is that the doctor says, okay, there's no heartbeat,
Speaker 1: and you're like shocks. You're like, oh, okay, great, now
Speaker 1: what now what? And the first time I took UM,
Speaker 1: the doctor told me to take this pill at home
Speaker 1: psytotech or misappropriate, I don't forget the name of the
Speaker 1: actual drug. But and that induced it, like that makes
Speaker 1: you have a miscarriage at home, and it's just like
Speaker 1: the heaviest period of your life. That was honestly the worst.
Speaker 1: That was worse than child's birth for me, because it
Speaker 1: causes cramping, like you're going through birth of something very small, right,
Speaker 1: and I'm learning, you know, and it's just it's and
Speaker 1: it's also condensed into a shorter period of time, so
Speaker 1: it's like a few hours that are just horrible. It's
Speaker 1: not like you're having a baby at the end of it,
Speaker 1: you know, um, and you were actively trying to conceive
Speaker 1: right and then take us through So wait, what is
Speaker 1: that term? Not miscarriage. It's called well, it's a missed miscarriage.
Speaker 1: And then there's other terms miscarriage, meaning that maybe if
Speaker 1: I had waited a few more weeks, it would have
Speaker 1: happened on its own, like in the olden days. I
Speaker 1: always think about that with my so weird, I always
Speaker 1: think about that. I don't, but like I when I
Speaker 1: was going through my miscarriage, I always thought about because
Speaker 1: I had to have a d n C um, which
Speaker 1: so you guys know, Um, a d n C is
Speaker 1: a medical treatment. A d NC stands for dilation and
Speaker 1: curetage if I'm pronouncing that correctly, which is a procedure
Speaker 1: to remove any remaining tissue from the uterus and um,
Speaker 1: you get you can be put under or you can
Speaker 1: be awakened. It can be local anesthesia. I think also, um,
Speaker 1: that's what I had from my second one. You had
Speaker 1: a d n C, but where you awake or asleep.
Speaker 1: They gave me like fun pills where I was kind
Speaker 1: of like loopy, yeah nice, Yeah, Yeah, I had fun
Speaker 1: pills and I was lupy as hell. And then they
Speaker 1: put me under UM and it removes the The DNC
Speaker 1: removes all the tissue UM and after you know, you're
Speaker 1: in and out same day. It takes like thirty minutes
Speaker 1: and then you're given like essentially like heavy ibprofen or
Speaker 1: something for the pain. UM. So your second miscarriage, you
Speaker 1: had to have a d NC. Yes, And I will
Speaker 1: say if anyone, I hope no one listening has to
Speaker 1: go through this, but if you are any of the
Speaker 1: option of taking the pill at home organ the d
Speaker 1: n C, just get the d NC. Yeah, that's how
Speaker 1: it's so much easier. You just go in, you take
Speaker 1: the medicine. It's painless. I mean, I can't pay me experience,
Speaker 1: Like I was super scared when they I had a
Speaker 1: very similar experience to you where I went to my
Speaker 1: I think the it was I was about eleven and
Speaker 1: a half weeks. I was a couple of days away
Speaker 1: from telling everybody that I was pregnant UM, which, by
Speaker 1: the way, when I got pregnant with ALBEI. I waited
Speaker 1: way longer than twelve weeks till anyone because I kind
Speaker 1: of had PTSD. This was a miscarriage and um I
Speaker 1: uh went to a routine doctor's visit to here or
Speaker 1: the heartbeat, and she was like, oh my god, I'm
Speaker 1: so sorry, but there is none and in came the
Speaker 1: tissues and um. But but it was over a holiday
Speaker 1: weekend and she was like, we can't do the d
Speaker 1: n C for a few days. And I just had
Speaker 1: like this real like oh no, no, I need to
Speaker 1: get in there like tomorrow. That was my response. I
Speaker 1: was like, get it out, like I don't want to
Speaker 1: walk around anymore knowing that there is like a dead
Speaker 1: inside those days. I mean, what was that like for
Speaker 1: you waiting and then driving to go get the d
Speaker 1: n C. What's going through your head? How are you processing?
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, what do you What did you feel
Speaker 1: amy like when you for the second one? Well, so
Speaker 1: you would say d n C over the pill for well,
Speaker 1: for me the hardest, you know, obviously my throne I
Speaker 1: actually do wait over two weeks, take us through your
Speaker 1: third and then we're going to get to Jackie's experience. Well,
Speaker 1: so the third, you know, was obviously the hardest because
Speaker 1: we were we got to twenty six weeks over six,
Speaker 1: so I was going, everyone knew us pregnant, we had
Speaker 1: that gender reveal party, we had names, you know, a
Speaker 1: one of us were there. Um. So what happened with
Speaker 1: that one was everything was normal and going great. The
Speaker 1: first two, you know, we're chromosomal, which is very common.
Speaker 1: That's what the most common you know, reason for a
Speaker 1: miscarriage and there's nothing you can do about it happens,
Speaker 1: you know, at conception. So this one, though, you know,
Speaker 1: everything's going great. We're going for our second trimester. You
Speaker 1: know that big three D scan you do, yes, And
Speaker 1: I think it was around twenty four weeks. We waited
Speaker 1: because Jared was out of town, so it was a
Speaker 1: little bit later, and they went and they said that
Speaker 1: there was like no amniotic fluid. And at the time
Speaker 1: it didn't really dawn on me. I'm like, oh, that
Speaker 1: sounds bad, but it didn't seem like, oh, this is
Speaker 1: they need that for survival. So amniac fluid is the
Speaker 1: liquid that the baby's swimming in and your uterus and
Speaker 1: eating and all that stuff. So without it baby's lungs
Speaker 1: can't develop, so if it happens, it is there. It
Speaker 1: can be a common in your third trimester to have
Speaker 1: lower ematic fluid and usually it's okay, but but they
Speaker 1: monitor it closely and if they need to induce your
Speaker 1: labor or have a C section, they're like watching you.
Speaker 1: If amniotic fluids an issue, put you on bed rest
Speaker 1: or But because it was still early in my pregnancy,
Speaker 1: it's not good. So I went home. Basically, they told
Speaker 1: me they don't think it's going to be a viable pregnancy,
Speaker 1: but the baby sort of heartbeat, could still feel her
Speaker 1: moving around, so they were like, well, and I was.
Speaker 1: They were like, well, you could just we can give
Speaker 1: you something to stop the heartbeat and then we can
Speaker 1: do the surgery. And I just like, even though mentally,
Speaker 1: like I knew it wasn't gonna be viable, I couldn't
Speaker 1: just give up on her way. So they're giving you
Speaker 1: the option. The doctors are literally saying, this pregnancy is
Speaker 1: not going to go any further, and here's a pill
Speaker 1: that you can end her whatever if you may or
Speaker 1: may not believe she has I think it was an
Speaker 1: injection or something, but yeah, like right before the surgery.
Speaker 1: So I said, you know what, I'm gonna wait. So
Speaker 1: even though I knew it her heart would probably stop
Speaker 1: eventually its own, I just chose to wait. So that's
Speaker 1: why for two weeks I waited. So that was the
Speaker 1: hardest part. Um, How did you sleep? And I mean
Speaker 1: it was it was a rough couple of weeks, um,
Speaker 1: But you know, and then is the procedure to have
Speaker 1: it removed a d n C. That's a d n E.
Speaker 1: So the dilation and evacuation I think it's called UM
Speaker 1: And that was actually a real weird procedure. So and
Speaker 1: again this might be I'm getting a little feminist here,
Speaker 1: but go for it. So what I learned is that
Speaker 1: because it was basically the d n E, which is
Speaker 1: the surgical procedure, is considered an abortion. And because it
Speaker 1: was late in my pregnancy, abortion a second trimester abortion. Essentially,
Speaker 1: even though the baby's heart had stopped at this point,
Speaker 1: UM insurance was an issue. So I could have gone
Speaker 1: to the hospital and delivered my dead baby for free
Speaker 1: at the maternity ward, you know where they play the
Speaker 1: chimes whenever a baby is born. Could have done that,
Speaker 1: or I could go to a place where I could
Speaker 1: get the surgery and I could be put under and
Speaker 1: I could, you know, not have to deal with all
Speaker 1: the pain physically. And I had to pay ten grand
Speaker 1: out of pocket to not have a baby. So but
Speaker 1: the procedure was actually pretty painless physically. So like women
Speaker 1: who don't have that kind of money obviously, like that
Speaker 1: is to give birth to a dead baby. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: some women, Look, some women actually choose to do that
Speaker 1: because seeing the baby helps them move on. I personally
Speaker 1: am not that kind of person. I didn't want to
Speaker 1: see anything. I had the very same reaction you went
Speaker 1: at when it was like the fetus was no longer viable.
Speaker 1: I was like, when I need to make an appointment now,
Speaker 1: like I need to in order to move on with
Speaker 1: my life. I don't taken care of but I do
Speaker 1: have to say, like, and we'll get into this. The
Speaker 1: grieving process was long, and I can't even imagine how
Speaker 1: long it was for you, Amy either. Jackie tell us
Speaker 1: about um your miscarriage. Mine was this was my first pregnancy,
Speaker 1: which was the same with you. Was my first pregnancy.
Speaker 1: I found out it was pregnant. People, weren't you not
Speaker 1: to tell people that you're pregnant? But of course you
Speaker 1: just never think that's going to happen. I don't know,
Speaker 1: it just doesn't occur to you. You just think I'm
Speaker 1: pregnant becausehen you're sixteen. Everyone's like, when you get pregnant,
Speaker 1: you have a baby, So I'm gonna have a baby.
Speaker 1: So of course I'm like, oh, well, we can't say anything.
Speaker 1: We tell everyone, you know, we do the thing, we
Speaker 1: reveal it to our parents on FaceTime, and I can't
Speaker 1: as well. I videotaped all my family's responses to me
Speaker 1: being pregnant, and then I won all of them and
Speaker 1: say I'm not. I made fake fortune cookies and had
Speaker 1: my parents open them up, and it said You're going
Speaker 1: to be a grand this is what I'm saying. So
Speaker 1: we said all the next one. I didn't do anything
Speaker 1: neither exactly because you learned. Yeah, we were like, I'm
Speaker 1: not doing anything. Meanwhile, your story I couldn't remember this
Speaker 1: morning if it was your story or my story about me.
Speaker 1: You're going to be grand like the ones that that
Speaker 1: said grandparents. You did something videos of like we recorded
Speaker 1: my family finding out, like my parents and Adam's family
Speaker 1: and my brother and my best friend girls that we whatever.
Speaker 1: So we told everybody and drink and exactly and then, um,
Speaker 1: I will say for me, what happened was I had
Speaker 1: a flash that was going to happen before it happened. Um,
Speaker 1: because you think, because yeah, you guys, by the way,
Speaker 1: I'm told psychic book, should I tell everyone that how
Speaker 1: I found out I was pregnant the second time? By
Speaker 1: the way, a psychic told me in my dream, your
Speaker 1: baby girl has arrived. So I am psychic, So thank
Speaker 1: you very much. But you don't remember that story. Just
Speaker 1: the woe is it's the audience. Yes, the stories better slower,
Speaker 1: but anyho, Um, I had a flash. I went to
Speaker 1: the bathroom and I just had a flash and basically
Speaker 1: I knew and I and I looked at it was
Speaker 1: my situation. Was a crime scene in the toilet bowl,
Speaker 1: just an old fashioned crime scene. And no, it's They're
Speaker 1: all terrible. I will say, I will never forget that
Speaker 1: image I I saw and I didn't see it, and
Speaker 1: I think I saw the thing like I saw it.
Speaker 1: I saw everything, and then um, then the breakdown and
Speaker 1: then the pain started because your body, No, that was
Speaker 1: what was very strange. But I was after like on
Speaker 1: the floor with your face on the cold, tiled sort
Speaker 1: of cramping. Um. For as long as it took, I
Speaker 1: just laid on the floor. I remember when you called
Speaker 1: me and you said, um, well, I guess I'm in
Speaker 1: the club now. And I said what happened? And she
Speaker 1: was like I because I had been through my miscarriage already,
Speaker 1: and you were like, well, I've also now had a miscarriage.
Speaker 1: And I was like, yeah, like looking are It's exactly so.
Speaker 1: In our group of moms from mom class, there's twelve
Speaker 1: of us or something ten eleven us and three of
Speaker 1: us have been miscarriages. So that's the numbers about right,
Speaker 1: Like that's not so. Again, this needs to be talked
Speaker 1: about more openly, more freely, because it's I went to therapy.
Speaker 1: I told my therapist and I said, you know, you
Speaker 1: can throw a rock and hit someone who's had a miscarriage.
Speaker 1: And she raised her hand in our session and I
Speaker 1: was like, of course, we've all we've all gone through this. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like the unspoken about, which is sad. It's sad
Speaker 1: we don't talk about it more. What let's talk about
Speaker 1: Let's talk about the physical toll, and then we'll talk
Speaker 1: about the mental toll. But Amy you, I know, had
Speaker 1: a real physical toll with the last miscarriage because it
Speaker 1: was so late in the game. Like you, I think
Speaker 1: you are already you were had already gained pregnancy weight,
Speaker 1: you or your boobs were sizes up. I mean it
Speaker 1: was like we bought gifts, and yeah, we bought gifts.
Speaker 1: So I had to cancel my baby show. I remember that.
Speaker 1: Do you remember that email my sister to send out.
Speaker 1: By the way, I will say, if anyone had sent
Speaker 1: me a flower anything, I probably would have punched them
Speaker 1: in the face. So I would just say I got
Speaker 1: sent a lot of cookies, and I enjoyed that. I
Speaker 1: called a woman who had a lot of miscarriages and
Speaker 1: she knew I was going in that day for my
Speaker 1: d n C. And when I came home, there was
Speaker 1: like a jug of milk and like a thousand cookies
Speaker 1: and I ate them all and then I ate sushi. Um,
Speaker 1: the things you're not allegedly got drunk and then I
Speaker 1: got wasted. Um. So were you in physical pain after
Speaker 1: your d n E. Well, the worst part was the
Speaker 1: worst pain of the entire thing was that my milk
Speaker 1: came in so ween your breasts. Yeah, and you're not
Speaker 1: feeding and you're not trying to relieve that. You know now,
Speaker 1: I know now, we all know that. And gorged feeling
Speaker 1: it hurts so bad, right like when your milk first
Speaker 1: cod of it right now, um, And so yeah, you
Speaker 1: don't want it the milk to come out, so I would.
Speaker 1: It took like almost a week and I had to
Speaker 1: lay there with like cabbage leaves and cold like after this,
Speaker 1: after this, it called a miscarriage. Um. At that point
Speaker 1: it's called I forget what it's called, but it's not
Speaker 1: a miscarriage. I'd say something um um. And Jackie, you
Speaker 1: obviously said you were in super physical thing afterwards it
Speaker 1: Once it was done, it was done though, it was
Speaker 1: just a couple of hours, and then I was done.
Speaker 1: I felt no physical pain, like I said. The d
Speaker 1: n C. I remember they gave me whatever like fenton
Speaker 1: al or something, but they gave me that. And I
Speaker 1: remember being wheeled into the surgery room completely fucked up
Speaker 1: out of my mind, and I remember saying, oh my god,
Speaker 1: this looks like a Gray's anatomy set. And then I
Speaker 1: also remember saying, I feel so good and so buzzed
Speaker 1: right now. And I have been buzzed in three months
Speaker 1: because I was had almost been pregnant for three months,
Speaker 1: and I was like, if you got any more of
Speaker 1: what you're given, give me more. And then I remember
Speaker 1: my ob just like holding my hand and like petting
Speaker 1: my hand and saying, you're it's okay, it's okay, it's okay.
Speaker 1: And then I like went to sleep and I woke
Speaker 1: up and the baby was gone, and for me, the
Speaker 1: real and I wasn't in pain afterwards, but the real
Speaker 1: pain was mental and it was shitty and so much
Speaker 1: shittier than I imagined at being um, I'm such a like.
Speaker 1: I think the initial feeling when I found out there
Speaker 1: was no heartbeat from the doctor in a routine checkup
Speaker 1: was like, okay, let's like Olivia Pope, the situation, Let's
Speaker 1: fix it. Let's make the schedule, let's get to the hospital,
Speaker 1: let's get the d let's get that done. When when
Speaker 1: can I start trying again? Like and then as soon
Speaker 1: as it sort of said in that I had had
Speaker 1: a miscarriage, what happens is you have a major hormonal
Speaker 1: drop off. And I think I was massively sad for
Speaker 1: about three months and I was only pregnant for three months,
Speaker 1: so I can't imagine Amy what you felt or Jackie
Speaker 1: what you felt actually seeing something, which is an image
Speaker 1: you can't ever forget. UM. But I had to go
Speaker 1: through I went through a lot of therapy UM a lot.
Speaker 1: And also what's crazy about a miscarriage that you don't
Speaker 1: know is that it takes you a really long time
Speaker 1: to get your period back UM and to get back
Speaker 1: on a regular cycle. So if you're a woman like
Speaker 1: I am, who is greatly affected by her cycle, like
Speaker 1: I have, I've been fortunate enough to be kind of
Speaker 1: regular my whole life and come to except my period. Well,
Speaker 1: I didn't get a period for three months after I
Speaker 1: had my miscarriage, and so I felt like an insane
Speaker 1: person because my body was really messed up and my
Speaker 1: hormones were really recovering and messed up in my what
Speaker 1: I've come to learn, my uterine wall was rebuilding from
Speaker 1: the d n C and things like that. And you
Speaker 1: also can't really start to try to conceive. Some doctors
Speaker 1: would recommend until you've had a period because it's a
Speaker 1: sign that your cycles back and the egg is dropping
Speaker 1: and you might actually have a chance of getting pregnant again.
Speaker 1: So it's not like I could jump back in the
Speaker 1: saddle and try to start fixing the problem. So for
Speaker 1: three months I had to sit there and not get
Speaker 1: my period and feel, you know, like, yeah, I have
Speaker 1: that extra five seven pounds on. I was sad, but
Speaker 1: I really just felt kind of crazy, like I was
Speaker 1: having disproportionate responses to conflict, Like little things would come
Speaker 1: up and I would be shot out of a canon,
Speaker 1: like totally insane and not acting like myself. Did you
Speaker 1: find that jacking the hormone and balance is a real thing,
Speaker 1: not something you would even think about it's going to happen.
Speaker 1: But of course, and I went through that with you.
Speaker 1: I remember, I remember, and I remember you having going
Speaker 1: through that. It made did you? I mean I actually
Speaker 1: had to go back on birth control to help me
Speaker 1: get regular because I feel like a crazy person, Like
Speaker 1: you said, I just the hormones are so coct Like
Speaker 1: that's the thing, like if one in four or five
Speaker 1: pregnancies are ending in miscarriage and women are just like
Speaker 1: needing help, like whether that's to know to go on
Speaker 1: birth control, or whether that's to speak to a therapist
Speaker 1: or to have a friend to talk to. Like imagine
Speaker 1: you don't know you go back to your nine you
Speaker 1: or you have another kid you're looking after, Like I
Speaker 1: have a friend who had a baby, has three kids
Speaker 1: and had a miscarriage in between every single one. So
Speaker 1: like baby miscarriage, baby miscarriage, baby miscarriage. So this can
Speaker 1: happen again to us because I don't I don't think
Speaker 1: I know, but that is like, it is a real
Speaker 1: miracle to get pregnant, stay pregnant, and make a baby.
Speaker 1: And I don't understand how anyone can accidentally get pregnant.
Speaker 1: They make you feel like if you look at a guy,
Speaker 1: you're going to get pregnant. Um bowl, So you went
Speaker 1: back on birth control? Did you guys start immediately trying
Speaker 1: to have a baby right away? Did you wait? We? Oh,
Speaker 1: I wasn't complete denial. I was like, I'm fine, I
Speaker 1: remember that, I'm fine. It's something bad happened. I'm fine.
Speaker 1: I'm fine. And I really believed, I was very strong.
Speaker 1: It's all lies, but I really think I'm fine. I'm fine,
Speaker 1: I'm fine, it's fine. And yes, we started trying. We
Speaker 1: went on with our life and people would ask about it.
Speaker 1: Did you wait to get a period or did you
Speaker 1: just start trying right And we started trying. Actually we started.
Speaker 1: This is exactly what we did. You know how everyone
Speaker 1: says if you're not trying, you get pregnant that thing.
Speaker 1: So I'm like, well, I'm not trying because I can't
Speaker 1: get pregnant. But secretly I was kind of trying and
Speaker 1: hoping I would know. And it worked because it was
Speaker 1: like the not trying trying, you were just like getting
Speaker 1: back in your body. I was like, yeah, I'm not
Speaker 1: gonna get pregnant. I'm not doing and I'm not supposed to.
Speaker 1: But in the back of my mind, I was trying
Speaker 1: to manipulate the universe exactly. So I was I'm fine,
Speaker 1: I'm fine, let's keep boning. And and because I told
Speaker 1: so many people, I had a lot of which say
Speaker 1: let me tell you not again. And the only other
Speaker 1: thing I would say is just don't send me flower
Speaker 1: I please, because you know you're hanging on by a threat.
Speaker 1: And then I sent you flowers? What I hate them.
Speaker 1: What would be your advice two women who have had
Speaker 1: a miscarriage, what would you send or saying you said cookies,
Speaker 1: which I think is great advice and booze booze, okay,
Speaker 1: And what are suggestions of what you would say, I'll
Speaker 1: tell you what not to say. Oh that's good. Um,
Speaker 1: that's just as help. This is what bothered me when
Speaker 1: everyone's like everything happens for a reason. Oh my god,
Speaker 1: you guys, come on anyone if we can change one
Speaker 1: time from listening to this podcast to say that except
Speaker 1: we all agree that after we all had our firstborn,
Speaker 1: we looked at each other and said, well, I guess
Speaker 1: it didn't happen a reason. Well, no, Look, I love
Speaker 1: my kid, but I would have loved my other three
Speaker 1: kids too, you know, like, and I have to say,
Speaker 1: like I think about that, like I do think about
Speaker 1: like I don't. I have a son and I'm so
Speaker 1: fortunate that he's happy and healthy. But I, in my
Speaker 1: gut have this really weird feeling that the baby I
Speaker 1: lost was a girl, Like I just for some reason,
Speaker 1: Like I know that I was never told to me,
Speaker 1: but I feel like it's a girl. And Adam and
Speaker 1: I go back and forth a lot. This is really weird, guys,
Speaker 1: But we go back and forth a lot about Adam
Speaker 1: thinks that the baby we lost is the same soul
Speaker 1: as Albie, my current son was actually really glad I
Speaker 1: don't like I think it was a soul that came
Speaker 1: and went to wherever she was supposed to go. And
Speaker 1: Albi is a new person. Um, what do you guys feel?
Speaker 1: I definitely feel like again psych psychic. So psychics always
Speaker 1: told me I was going to have a boy. I
Speaker 1: was gonna have a boy, and I believed I was
Speaker 1: having a boy, and in my mind, maybe to make
Speaker 1: peace with it, we had come up with a girl's name.
Speaker 1: My daughter's name is Pearl, and we had always said
Speaker 1: the name Pearl, and we didn't have a boy's name,
Speaker 1: and we felt like we were calling her to us.
Speaker 1: And I believe there are two different spirits. And my
Speaker 1: son tagged out and he said, you know what, they're
Speaker 1: calling you. You go first. WHOA. I just got home eventually,
Speaker 1: and then she came and I god, I just got goose.
Speaker 1: I think I did too, actually, and I believe that
Speaker 1: their spirits made a soul contract. And she she said,
Speaker 1: you know what, let me go first. They're calling me,
Speaker 1: and then then you call. So that's why I keep
Speaker 1: saying I'm gonna have a but look in the next
Speaker 1: spirit will come as a girl or a boy. But
Speaker 1: that's what I tell myself. That's super helpful. Like, like,
Speaker 1: we have to come up with things because for the
Speaker 1: person who says, like everything happens for a reason or whatever,
Speaker 1: like at the end of the day, we're the ones
Speaker 1: laying there going through it, and like, how do you
Speaker 1: come to terms with What are the things you tell yourself?
Speaker 1: And I think it's a beautiful thing to tell yourself, Amy,
Speaker 1: what else would you tell people not to say or
Speaker 1: to say, I don't know, Um, everything happens for a
Speaker 1: reason is not good. That's not a good one. You
Speaker 1: know what actually was helpful because I I did go
Speaker 1: to therapy after my last one and my first time
Speaker 1: going to therapy, and I found a fertility and law
Speaker 1: specialist and she herself had had many losses and went
Speaker 1: through fertility And so people listening that is a therapist
Speaker 1: that I didn't know existed. That's huge. So there is
Speaker 1: there are specific fertility and loss specialists to deal with
Speaker 1: women who have had late any sort of feelings towards
Speaker 1: even just going through I have friends going to last
Speaker 1: fertility issues and that's a whole other nightmare. So what
Speaker 1: she told me that I thought was helpful. There was
Speaker 1: two things that were a great piece of advice. The
Speaker 1: first was I started to feel very anxious when I
Speaker 1: was pregnant again, and I would always get scared. And
Speaker 1: she said, yeah, it's basically like you have PTSD. Of
Speaker 1: course you had these traumatic experiences. Cut yourself from slack.
Speaker 1: Just know that it's going to take time to get
Speaker 1: over the trauma of these lass and like retrain your
Speaker 1: brain to rewrite the story that like this one is different,
Speaker 1: like this time is going to be different. And then
Speaker 1: the thing that I take moving forward that I took
Speaker 1: in my pregnancy was, you know, I'm not a very
Speaker 1: religious person or I don't go to psychics. Just give
Speaker 1: me the fifteen minutes and uh so what what she
Speaker 1: said to me was like, well, do you believe in
Speaker 1: like karma or playing the odds? And I was like, okay,
Speaker 1: go on, And her thing was like, you know, all
Speaker 1: these bad things have already happened to you. What are
Speaker 1: the odds more bad stuff is going to happen? And
Speaker 1: I was like, I like the way I like we
Speaker 1: were going with that. Somebody I don't know have scientifically
Speaker 1: that's a real theory. But I kind of in my
Speaker 1: pregnancy and even having the baby now, in my mind,
Speaker 1: I kind of think, look if I had to go
Speaker 1: through all that crap, but she's going to be happy
Speaker 1: and healthy. Okay, that's a fair trade. Yes, And it
Speaker 1: Isn't it weird like sitting here talking about our miscarriages
Speaker 1: and now here we are, and and it is weird
Speaker 1: how women are fucking resilient as fuck guys, Like it
Speaker 1: is crazy, like the amazing women that we all know
Speaker 1: collectively or may no individually who have gone through lots
Speaker 1: of ship and come out on other sides. And it's
Speaker 1: just unbelievable to me. Um uh, let's talk about sharing
Speaker 1: your experience with other people. Amy that way, especially for
Speaker 1: you since you like had a shower or not know
Speaker 1: the shower by cancel, but you had a baby reveal party.
Speaker 1: Um you know I love that Pinterest and Etsy so
Speaker 1: Amy Mass is the queen of a themed party. Yeah,
Speaker 1: she's a great party. She loves themes, masaene Halloween is
Speaker 1: her favorite holiday that there is. Um, did would you
Speaker 1: how would you would you give advice to women listening
Speaker 1: on how to tell people or how what to expect back?
Speaker 1: I thought about this on the way over here, and
Speaker 1: I feel almost like when you have a miscarriage, you're
Speaker 1: kind of raw of that joy of sharing this great
Speaker 1: news with everyone, because that's the stuff that I live for,
Speaker 1: you know, Like I have Pinterest pages saved like hidden
Speaker 1: on how to do reveals and how to tell people
Speaker 1: in parties, and for me, like, I was just so
Speaker 1: happy and so excited to finally share with everyone, and
Speaker 1: I feel robbed. I had all these cute moments that
Speaker 1: now obviously aren't cute anymore. And I know that sounds
Speaker 1: like a shallow Obviously there's way worse things, but no,
Speaker 1: in that moment, it's it's it's devastating in a way.
Speaker 1: And then then when you tell your parents, like by
Speaker 1: time we told our parents for our fourth pregnancy, they
Speaker 1: were kind of like, okay, they're so they're just worried
Speaker 1: and cautious and scared, and it's kind of sad that
Speaker 1: you want to be celebrating but you're also nervous. But
Speaker 1: I will say, you still have to make it. You
Speaker 1: still have to do something to celebrate your pregnancy. So
Speaker 1: we didn't go crazy public this time. I didn't have
Speaker 1: any parties. Obviously, I didn't even post about it on
Speaker 1: social media. But for my husband, I found out that
Speaker 1: it was a girl, and so I made like a
Speaker 1: big banner, and I did all this stuff in the house,
Speaker 1: and when he came home from Mark one day, you
Speaker 1: did your major big amy mass celebrations. Yes, I think
Speaker 1: video I had to someone is so great. What about you, Jackie? Um,
Speaker 1: I actually relate to Amy saying about being rob but
Speaker 1: that was for not because of the miscarriage, but because
Speaker 1: of that faulty gender tests that I got with my
Speaker 1: daughter where we had a single X chromosome, which is
Speaker 1: a different podcast. But um no, but you had once
Speaker 1: you were pregnant again. Yeah, let me I will say,
Speaker 1: I'll back it up just a little bit, which is
Speaker 1: to say earlier when I was talking about that, I'm fine.
Speaker 1: I'm fine. I will say that when I got pregnant
Speaker 1: again and I saw that yes on the stick, all
Speaker 1: of that grief, that's we were talking about grief. That's
Speaker 1: when that all came out. So I had the joy
Speaker 1: and the grief. I released it all and I didn't
Speaker 1: know I was carrying it, and it just sort of
Speaker 1: came out, and I was sobbing hysterically that I was pregnant.
Speaker 1: But it was some of it was most of it
Speaker 1: was grief. I felt grief and then the joy, so
Speaker 1: it's all sort of connected. So and then to bring
Speaker 1: it back to what we're talking about now that joy, Um,
Speaker 1: I I believed it was going to be okay. I
Speaker 1: just have to believe that. So I just let that.
Speaker 1: I don't know, man, because you woke up every day
Speaker 1: and that's what you needed. You were like, I believe
Speaker 1: it's gonna be okay. I kept telling everyone it's like
Speaker 1: a coffee machine and you always have to warm it
Speaker 1: up first and for it to work, and never quite
Speaker 1: the pods. Never, So I'm like, I just needed to
Speaker 1: get my body warmed up. But um, but then, yes,
Speaker 1: I had more issues than once I was pregnant with
Speaker 1: the testing. I you know, I have to say, I
Speaker 1: when I had such I can't I can't even imagine
Speaker 1: the PTSD you had, Amy, because once I got pregnant again.
Speaker 1: So after like three months of not getting my period,
Speaker 1: I finally got my period again and we started to
Speaker 1: try to conceive again, and thank god, it didn't take
Speaker 1: very long. I can't even imagine the women who are
Speaker 1: listening who finally get the green light that they can
Speaker 1: start try again after a miscarriage, and it takes like
Speaker 1: a year and then they miscarry again like there are
Speaker 1: like I said, women are resilient aflow. I had to
Speaker 1: take a break for me, the for for your marriage,
Speaker 1: for your own mental sen I needed my life back
Speaker 1: because we had at that point it had been three years.
Speaker 1: At one point I looked back and I was like,
Speaker 1: in the past two years, I've been pregnant for like
Speaker 1: a year and a half on off, and so the
Speaker 1: first two as soon as I got my period, we've
Speaker 1: tried again. And then after you know, the the late term,
Speaker 1: and I remember it's called still birth. That's when it's
Speaker 1: past twenty weeks, which I don't like that saying, so
Speaker 1: I'll just say miscarriage. But after that, when we took
Speaker 1: a year off, I was like, I want to go
Speaker 1: back to drinking. I want to travel. So yeah, you
Speaker 1: want to just figure out again who you are and
Speaker 1: and and that's and let your hormones really, um come
Speaker 1: back to some sort of normalcy. But I remember being
Speaker 1: so PTSD in the first three months of Albi's life,
Speaker 1: like I didn't tell as anybody I was pregnant. I
Speaker 1: was petrified to tell anybody. Um. Even when we made
Speaker 1: it past the twelve weeks, I was like, still so
Speaker 1: unsure because like you go through something like that, and
Speaker 1: for me it was all about like protecting myself from
Speaker 1: like expectations or and then superstitious moving on. Now, I
Speaker 1: don't want to have anything. Nobody looked at me, Nobody
Speaker 1: looked too closely because it might not work out. And
Speaker 1: Um and Amy, we had watched you, so I think
Speaker 1: we were all kind of waiting to get past you
Speaker 1: know what I mean, because oh God, once I heard
Speaker 1: that that was still a possibility, it was like, oh
Speaker 1: my gosh, like this is this is like say this
Speaker 1: is no, this is really like a physical miracle. Um
Speaker 1: and Amy, can you tell us how you how how
Speaker 1: and the work you did on this fourth pregnancy, because
Speaker 1: you changed a lot about your lifestyle for this pregnancy.
Speaker 1: And I will say the late term lot, like my
Speaker 1: experience is much more rare. So I don't want to
Speaker 1: freak out. Listeners, no, no, no, no, listeners. Um. Ten
Speaker 1: of the pregnancies that end in miscarriage, eight out of
Speaker 1: ten of those miscarriages happen in the first three months. Um.
Speaker 1: And the other thing we should dispel as a myth
Speaker 1: right now is that And I, for God, I feel
Speaker 1: this is so it's difficult to even know why miscarriages happened.
Speaker 1: Amy brought up previously their chromosomal like for whatever reason, um,
Speaker 1: something doesn't stick and it can and it's it's very
Speaker 1: like sometimes some people say, if if it wasn't supposed
Speaker 1: to be. I know, we've already said if it's not
Speaker 1: meant to be, summan to be. But no, sometimes it's
Speaker 1: your body doing its job that the baby was not
Speaker 1: well or um, the baby was going to have massive
Speaker 1: sort of it is a good sign to your body,
Speaker 1: so maybe it's not supposed to be is taking care
Speaker 1: of you. But what is a myth is that sex, exercise,
Speaker 1: working do not cause miscarriages. Because I held a party
Speaker 1: of fundraiser at my house for a charity a couple
Speaker 1: of days before I miscarried, and I lifted a few
Speaker 1: things that we're not that heavy, but I'll tell you
Speaker 1: I still think about them and I still have to
Speaker 1: like read in Google that like, that's not what caused
Speaker 1: your miscarriage and lifted a box. It's fine. There are
Speaker 1: women working all over the world that lift things and
Speaker 1: their pregnancies completely end full term healthy. So you were
Speaker 1: pregnant with Albie and shooting scandal very screaming, giving birth,
Speaker 1: murdering people. So another other science facts is that some
Speaker 1: things that are known to cause miscarriages, which would be
Speaker 1: the opposite is when there's an abnormal number of chromosomes, genes,
Speaker 1: which is what Amy had twice, and I think also
Speaker 1: what I had. UM. Certain illnesses can increase the chance
Speaker 1: of miscarriage, Like if you have like the most severe
Speaker 1: case of diabetes, I think it has to be like
Speaker 1: watched very closely, but that is something for you and
Speaker 1: your doctor to work out. UM. And then there can
Speaker 1: also be abnormalities in the uterus um. And then also
Speaker 1: it starts to be sort of a numbers game with Amy,
Speaker 1: which is why I'm really curious about your fourth pregnancy,
Speaker 1: because it starts one miscarriage. The doctors are not concerned
Speaker 1: because it happens to a lot of women, even if
Speaker 1: it's chromosomal. They're not worried if you have three, which
Speaker 1: is what Amy started to walk into. Now is when
Speaker 1: we start looking at really what's going on here? And
Speaker 1: so tell us what you learned and what you did
Speaker 1: for fourth For our little Ellie may Mass was here
Speaker 1: in the world. So in the year I took off,
Speaker 1: I actually spent a lot of time doing research and
Speaker 1: getting tests, like I needed to find an answer. I
Speaker 1: need to know why this had happened. I didn't just
Speaker 1: sit with me that, oh, it just happened. I needed
Speaker 1: to find out. And I became obsessed with doctor's tests
Speaker 1: and seeing shalists, and at one point I shipped my
Speaker 1: blood overnight to a specialist in Chicago and it was
Speaker 1: just this whole thing, and my husband was finally like,
Speaker 1: you gotta stop. And I thought, because I have like
Speaker 1: this very rare autoimmune disorder, it's a skin condition, that
Speaker 1: it had to do with that, and I went to
Speaker 1: Finally my therapist helped, and she said, you know, go
Speaker 1: see one last doctor, go see a high risk specialist.
Speaker 1: UM the there who you would go to see when
Speaker 1: you get those three d uh scans scans um paranetologists
Speaker 1: for those of you guys who don't know. But like
Speaker 1: later in a lot of pregnancies, especially if you're an
Speaker 1: old pregnant woman like we are above thirty five, which
Speaker 1: is called a geriatric pregnancy, which is literally the worst
Speaker 1: name for anything ever and was named by a dude. Um,
Speaker 1: you have to go take a test where it's like
Speaker 1: a three D picture of and it looks at like
Speaker 1: every single part of your baby, that it has four
Speaker 1: chambers of the two chambers of its brain, for chambers
Speaker 1: of its heart, that the lungs you're developing. You can
Speaker 1: literally see every single organ. And so baby's face looks like, yes,
Speaker 1: so you she sent you to one of these doctors
Speaker 1: who does that scan. And you know, I had asked him,
Speaker 1: do you think it's because of my autoimmune disorder? And
Speaker 1: he said, you know, it could be, but it could
Speaker 1: be one of hundreds of things. And you know, if
Speaker 1: you look back at the last twenty years and the
Speaker 1: advances in technology for fertility, it's come a long way,
Speaker 1: but there hasn't been a lot of advance in pregnancy loss.
Speaker 1: And I and so my doctor said, yeah, we're learning
Speaker 1: more what some of these causes are, but you know,
Speaker 1: he's like, we may never know. And what he said
Speaker 1: to me was, I don't know exactly why it happened,
Speaker 1: but I know how to fix it. And I was like, great,
Speaker 1: I'll take it. And his confidence is what just made
Speaker 1: me feel so much better. And I was like, all right,
Speaker 1: let's do this. So what do you say? What was
Speaker 1: the how to? He said, we're going to do a
Speaker 1: few things. One, we're going to put you in a
Speaker 1: low inflammatory diet, which for me, I had never been
Speaker 1: a diet. Not that not that didn't need I just
Speaker 1: don't have the willpower. So I s and he made
Speaker 1: me be gluten free, which you know, I love pizza
Speaker 1: and pasta, so that was hard. Um. But and I
Speaker 1: started exercising. So he basically took your entire diet and
Speaker 1: made it so that you didn't have anything that would
Speaker 1: inflame your body, which for most people is like a
Speaker 1: lot of gluten sodium and now some people, well, he
Speaker 1: had me and it was also like healthy fats like
Speaker 1: and so that was the first major body like a
Speaker 1: breeding ground for babies. I lost like fifteen pounds when
Speaker 1: I was pregnant, also cutting out the booze probably but um.
Speaker 1: And then you know, I was exercising a lot, and
Speaker 1: then he wanted me I had to give myself blood
Speaker 1: dinner shots every day and that sucks because those hurt.
Speaker 1: And then I was on steroids for a little bit.
Speaker 1: I was on baby as one for a little bit.
Speaker 1: So it was all these things where and then I
Speaker 1: for my sanity, he let me come in like every
Speaker 1: two weeks to get an ultra zone because I was like,
Speaker 1: and I bought when those at home once you can
Speaker 1: hear the heartbeat. But at the end, when I had
Speaker 1: a healthy baby, I said to my doctor, what do
Speaker 1: you think it was that did it? He goes, who knows?
Speaker 1: Maybe none of these helped? Oh my god, after all,
Speaker 1: but like he's right, He's like, we did what we
Speaker 1: know can help. Was in your control. You could have
Speaker 1: just been a crap to It could have literally just
Speaker 1: been bad luck and bad whatever, And this time it
Speaker 1: was just it worked. To see, That's when I get spiritual.
Speaker 1: I have to Yeah, you gotta Amy doesn't And I
Speaker 1: respect that about you. Who did you? Guys turn to
Speaker 1: for like for people who are listening who may have
Speaker 1: struggled with miscarriage or know someone who's struggling with miscarriage, Like,
Speaker 1: what does a support system look like to get you through? Someone?
Speaker 1: I got Jackie side look in the mirror? Are you
Speaker 1: looking at me? What do you mean? I was like,
Speaker 1: I was you. I was like markableing you every day.
Speaker 1: Thank you? And I mean Amy in the village that
Speaker 1: you were talking about, I mean without the village. So
Speaker 1: it really helps to talk to other women who have
Speaker 1: had miscarriage. And of course my sister who had had
Speaker 1: three herself, and she had three miscarriages. Yes, she ain't
Speaker 1: stillborn as well. What this is what I'm saying, women
Speaker 1: are mind blowing mean while she has four children out
Speaker 1: so you were all like, you're perfect impressions. Who did
Speaker 1: you turn so so other women who had miscarriages. It
Speaker 1: was a big support network for you and what about
Speaker 1: you and me? I think after the first one, I
Speaker 1: didn't really know any of my friends had I knew
Speaker 1: one friend from high school and my good friends and
Speaker 1: reached out to her. But now it's crazy now that
Speaker 1: I've been through it and I put it out there,
Speaker 1: I don't remember, like I sent an email to everyone
Speaker 1: and I was like, made me Amy's email. Let me
Speaker 1: tell you something in the long and short of it.
Speaker 1: I think it was it through you or through Jared
Speaker 1: or who was from both of you? But was it
Speaker 1: the email that said something like you send a mass
Speaker 1: email to all of your friends and you said, god, guys,
Speaker 1: maybe cry. But you said something to the effect of like,
Speaker 1: if there's any like light at the end of the tunnel,
Speaker 1: if there's any silver lining to this whole thing, it's
Speaker 1: that I'm so glad this happened to us and other
Speaker 1: people because we have so many great friends who were
Speaker 1: close with and can help us through this. That's what
Speaker 1: my husband said. He said, you know, he's like, we're
Speaker 1: lucky that we have each other, we have families whereas
Speaker 1: and we have a great group of friends, and we're
Speaker 1: going to get through this. And he said, there's people
Speaker 1: out there that are going to have a hard time,
Speaker 1: and it's it could isolating yourself is feels sometimes what
Speaker 1: you want to do, but it's not helpful in the end.
Speaker 1: It really helps to reach out. And me helping my
Speaker 1: friends did make me feel better. Oh yeah, oh my god, help.
Speaker 1: I mean you, I totally the women who had had miscarriages,
Speaker 1: I did feel like it's part of a really sad club.
Speaker 1: But here's the weird thing about the club. There's a
Speaker 1: shipload of women in it. That's what's so weird. It's
Speaker 1: like there's a there's a lot of women who have
Speaker 1: had miscarriages, and so it is helpful and a lot
Speaker 1: of women who have had miscarriages who have gone on
Speaker 1: to have kids, which is a very wonderful source of inspiration.
Speaker 1: I joked with one of my friends she had had
Speaker 1: like maybe like four or five mischaracters, so sad. But
Speaker 1: then her kid that she had is super smart, so cute.
Speaker 1: I'm like, you had a super baby. All of that
Speaker 1: led down. I have a question. Yes, you were talking
Speaker 1: about things that cause and don't cause botox? What are
Speaker 1: we saying on botox? Oh, welcome to l A. I
Speaker 1: just feel like it is something that causes well, you know,
Speaker 1: I sometimes think about like I was on this. I
Speaker 1: had an adult onset acne guys in my early thirties
Speaker 1: where I had the worst kind I've ever had my
Speaker 1: entire life, and I went on a drug called a
Speaker 1: drug for my face? Can I take it? And a
Speaker 1: whole other episode is how your skin gets really weird
Speaker 1: after you have babies, And I don't mean just on
Speaker 1: your face. Maybe I shouldn't have brought wine for um.
Speaker 1: But I was on a drug that I had to
Speaker 1: go off of like thirty days where I started trying
Speaker 1: and I got pregnant, like you know, like thirty days,
Speaker 1: like pretty soon after. And sometimes I think about that.
Speaker 1: You know. The point is you're always going to think
Speaker 1: should have, would have? Could have? Like what would have
Speaker 1: been done differently? What would my family look like if
Speaker 1: that pregnancy would have stuck for say, is what my
Speaker 1: family looks like now? Um? But did I cut you off? Jackie?
Speaker 1: Were you going to say something about your button? The
Speaker 1: doctor hat of like one other things I'm telling to
Speaker 1: you that makes me sound super smart. I have one
Speaker 1: other thing that sucks about miscarriages. Um, names, what do
Speaker 1: you do about names? Well, you can't use it again?
Speaker 1: Can We told everything God? And it was like the
Speaker 1: name that Jared and I have been talking about since
Speaker 1: we met and we loved it so much. Can you
Speaker 1: flip it or use it? No? No, it's fine, We're passive.
Speaker 1: But again, name has to go again. I was attached
Speaker 1: to my name. But I love that. I don't know,
Speaker 1: but I love that about you, Like I think it
Speaker 1: whatever works is like to get you through. Like if
Speaker 1: that's a name you retire because that's an experience you
Speaker 1: are moving on from and closing the door, and that's
Speaker 1: named for that experience, or you are someone that's like,
Speaker 1: that's a name that means something to me, and I
Speaker 1: get to continue to use it and I get to
Speaker 1: do what I want. I mean, I don't know, I
Speaker 1: don't know. I don't if I went through with Amy
Speaker 1: went through maybe not well. Also, this is something I
Speaker 1: did not know going into it, and it was shocking.
Speaker 1: If you go past certain amount of weeks after you
Speaker 1: have your surgery, you have to decide what to do
Speaker 1: with the baby. Tell me about that. I was so
Speaker 1: you know, some people have funeral, so we opted for
Speaker 1: cremation and then we went and spread her ashes during
Speaker 1: and I had like a really nice moment. So at
Speaker 1: that point, you can't reuse the name. Nope, Nope, Nope,
Speaker 1: can't reason that. Nope, I hear you have the chills.
Speaker 1: I want to cry. Said. What I think is so
Speaker 1: crazy is what your high risk doctor said, which is,
Speaker 1: we've come very far in the advances of fertility fertility,
Speaker 1: and what we've not come far in the advances of
Speaker 1: is what went wrong? What went wrong? And I think
Speaker 1: it's you know, miscarriages has been around since the beginning,
Speaker 1: but I will never forget at the Christmas after I
Speaker 1: lost my first pregnancy, and I was sitting there with
Speaker 1: my great aunt Joan who's eighty nine, and my grandmother
Speaker 1: who's eighty five, and I told them I had had
Speaker 1: a miscarriage. Um, my grandmother had already known because she
Speaker 1: was part of the like I'm pregnant and now I'm
Speaker 1: not pregnant. And her sister, who's they're very close, she
Speaker 1: I think, had told and we were talking about miscarriage
Speaker 1: because it's great conversation on christ Crave, you guys, while
Speaker 1: you've had Manhattan's in Buffalo, New York. Um, but we
Speaker 1: were having Manhattan's and they my great aunt Joan had
Speaker 1: five babies and my grandmother had four. And they went
Speaker 1: on and on to tell me how many miscarriages they had,
Speaker 1: how many late term miscarriages they had, and it was
Speaker 1: like something I'll never forget, Like they were just so
Speaker 1: strong and like yep, like welcome to being a woman
Speaker 1: and being a mother and it's a nightmare. And my
Speaker 1: great aunt Joan was like, you know, I buried in
Speaker 1: eight month old you know, fetus at you know, in
Speaker 1: nineteen or whatever it is. And here I am on
Speaker 1: Christmas Eve with my five kids and my fifteen grandchildren
Speaker 1: and my twelve Manhattans and my twelve Manhattan's and she says,
Speaker 1: I still think about that baby. I still think about
Speaker 1: that baby. My grandmom Pat says she still thinks about
Speaker 1: her lost babies, and you know that's something that we
Speaker 1: carry with us, and that is something that we hold
Speaker 1: in our heart, and it's also, you know, just part
Speaker 1: of our story, I guess, but I didn't change the relationship.
Speaker 1: Just felt made me feel super connected to my family,
Speaker 1: my the matriarchs of my family, but also like women
Speaker 1: in general for all time, like I think you feel, so,
Speaker 1: I felt so connected in my labor to my son
Speaker 1: because I felt connected that that older women in life
Speaker 1: had done this before me. But in the same way
Speaker 1: like I had felt, I felt connected to women that like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, they're women go through this and this
Speaker 1: is something that we need to talk about. And I
Speaker 1: hope that bringing you guys in and thank god you
Speaker 1: were here to help me. But I really hope that
Speaker 1: all of us sharing our stories like today. I hope
Speaker 1: that there are women out there listening and can feel
Speaker 1: any bit of better and and just know that there's
Speaker 1: resources out there. There's Facebook groups, there's track groups, there's
Speaker 1: so many mommy groups that did you use that stuff?
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I went on a lot of those like
Speaker 1: you know what You're expecting, You're expecting and all those
Speaker 1: websites and just read about other people going through the
Speaker 1: same kind of thing. And it does help to know
Speaker 1: that you're not alone. And especially now, like I said
Speaker 1: in the first one, I didn't really know anyone. Now
Speaker 1: it's like I know so many people. And I think
Speaker 1: that once you start talking about it, that's when you
Speaker 1: realize you're not alone. And it does help to talk about,
Speaker 1: at least my experience. I agree what you said is key.
Speaker 1: It's about the connection that you had with your grandma
Speaker 1: and your great aunt. It's the thing that is comforting.
Speaker 1: It's you connect you to your womanhood and to each other.
Speaker 1: And I couldn't agree with through it, could not agree more.
Speaker 1: Amy and Jackie, is there any advice you would give
Speaker 1: to a woman who has maybe recently had a miscarriage,
Speaker 1: or to maybe a woman who has a friend who
Speaker 1: has had a miscarriage. Yeah, I would say, um, give
Speaker 1: yourself space to grieve because you don't know where it's
Speaker 1: going to come out later, Because honestly, you have to
Speaker 1: pay it. Respect it. As my mother says, it matters,
Speaker 1: It matters, it counts, it's a real thing. You're not
Speaker 1: crazy or whatever judgment or name you could call yourself
Speaker 1: for going through that process. Give yourself space to grieve,
Speaker 1: respect that that it happens, and you're going through something.
Speaker 1: You're going through something, no matter how you try to
Speaker 1: say it's fine. I I gave myself time to grieve,
Speaker 1: but also went back to work and then also grieved
Speaker 1: at work. I feel bad from my show when I
Speaker 1: was working on a show at the time, and it
Speaker 1: was after that appointment where I went straight to work
Speaker 1: because I wasn't really sure. It didn't really see where
Speaker 1: they said is it a viable pregnancy? That was me
Speaker 1: out a fluid. Then you went to work. I went
Speaker 1: to work and you told your boss, but he's he's great, um,
Speaker 1: and I just started. I just broke down in his office.
Speaker 1: And we would always joke that because you know were
Speaker 1: I write comedies, and we always say if there's something
Speaker 1: dramatically like oh, that's for parenthood, like the show Parent.
Speaker 1: And so I was literally crying, bawling in his office
Speaker 1: and I go, oh my god, I'm so sorry. This
Speaker 1: is a real parent a moment right now. And then
Speaker 1: but he was like, I think you should just go home,
Speaker 1: and he gave me obviously, He's like, take as much
Speaker 1: time as you want. I took off a week and
Speaker 1: then I came back and it actually did help to
Speaker 1: be back to work with my friends and everyone knew
Speaker 1: when everyone was so supportive and yeah, I did cry
Speaker 1: a couple of times at work and but we got
Speaker 1: through it. And you know everyone, I think they were
Speaker 1: a little cautious around me, like didn't know what to say,
Speaker 1: but them just letting me talk and cry if I
Speaker 1: needed to was it was really helpful. What advice would
Speaker 1: you give to maybe someone who's recently or had a
Speaker 1: miscarriage in the past, or a friend who what could
Speaker 1: a friend do to some for someone who may be
Speaker 1: going through a miscarriage or Yeah, I think, like we said,
Speaker 1: bring over some drinks and some food, sushi and beer
Speaker 1: and just say I'm here for you, and it sucks
Speaker 1: right now, but it does get better and eventually you'll
Speaker 1: have your baby. That is one other thing my therapist said.
Speaker 1: She said she loves being a fertility and loss specialist
Speaker 1: because there's always going to be a happy ending because
Speaker 1: no matter what, there will be a way you can
Speaker 1: have her baby, whether it is so if you want that, yes,
Speaker 1: so if you want to have a baby, you'll you'll
Speaker 1: get your happy ending. So just know that it sucks
Speaker 1: right now, but the there will be a light at
Speaker 1: the end of the tunnel. Can I make a disclaimer
Speaker 1: before you close? Yes, if I made any jokes that
Speaker 1: were offensive or just you did not, I'm sorry not
Speaker 1: Also like to yes, humor, humor you guys. I'm trying
Speaker 1: to think if I would have any advice. I think
Speaker 1: that was really good about space. Um you're good with hugs. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I felt it really helpful to talk about it. I
Speaker 1: just really did, because my god, you know what we
Speaker 1: didn't talk about. I did feel ashamed, Oh my god,
Speaker 1: and the failure the whole I did. I it sucks,
Speaker 1: but there is something about being a woman and being perfect,
Speaker 1: especially because you're supposed to be good at having a baby,
Speaker 1: that's what your body is meant to do. And you
Speaker 1: feel like you have failed in some way and you
Speaker 1: feel ashamed that you didn't do a good job or
Speaker 1: there's something you did wrong, and that is the freaking worst.
Speaker 1: Like I definitely felt like I said, like I kept
Speaker 1: thinking about I picked something up or I was on
Speaker 1: an acne drug and that's why it's the choices I
Speaker 1: made that made it so that I put my family
Speaker 1: through this. Um. So I felt a tremendous amount of
Speaker 1: shame and I felt guilt and I felt embarrassed. UM.
Speaker 1: And like Jackie said, I think these are really really
Speaker 1: they're real feelings, UM, and you shouldn't sit alone with them.
Speaker 1: And I think, UM, it's really helpful to talk about
Speaker 1: it with either a professional or a friend who you
Speaker 1: trust and can hold you and put you in a
Speaker 1: safe space. UM. Well said, So yeah, you guys, we
Speaker 1: have finished our bottle of wine of Solve Blanc and
Speaker 1: it was helpful. And UM, I want to thank Jackie
Speaker 1: Side and Amy Mass so very much the bottom of
Speaker 1: my heart for being here and sharing your story. You've
Speaker 1: heard it helps sharing your story because I know that
Speaker 1: that I've done talk. I haven't talked publicly about my miscarriage,
Speaker 1: and I think it was because it was meant to
Speaker 1: be said here. Uh, that was meant to be. That's
Speaker 1: my experience of it. UM. So thank you guys so
Speaker 1: much for listening to this episode of Katie's Crib. Thanks
Speaker 1: for going on this journey with us, and UM subscribe
Speaker 1: tune in. There's going to be more happier topics. We're
Speaker 1: or not you guys. Motherhood is a mixed bag of
Speaker 1: ups and downs and all sorts of sideways. So and
Speaker 1: pimples on the butt um. So thank you guys so much,
Speaker 1: and cheers, cheers, cheers, find tracks into the cane ride