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Speaker 1: What you are about to hear is the work of

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Speaker 1: the investigative journalism that explores one woman's search for answers

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Speaker 1: in her son's death. The views and opinions in this

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Speaker 1: podcast do not reflect those of I Heart Media. Yo.

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Speaker 1: So this is me. You know. My name is Corny Copeman,

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Speaker 1: and the reason I'm here is three time my parents.

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Speaker 1: Two is the biggest year of my life. You know.

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Speaker 1: The world is ours, you know, and we just gotta

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Speaker 1: go out there and get it. Let's get it. The

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Speaker 1: world is ours. We just have to get out there

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Speaker 1: and get it. Before Courtney died, I was too afraid

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Speaker 1: to travel far. I've always had the fear of flying.

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Speaker 1: But Courtney wanted us to travel more and see the

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Speaker 1: world with him. Courtney only got a taste of what's

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Speaker 1: out there. But since he's been gone, I've been all

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Speaker 1: over this world. It started when Courtney came to me

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Speaker 1: in a dream. He told me, Mom, I want you

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Speaker 1: to live. I want you to go to Dubai. And

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Speaker 1: I was like Dubai. When I woke up, I booked

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Speaker 1: the trip. Bye Mall me and the whole family went,

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Speaker 1: but Brazil. I went there on my own. Here I

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Speaker 1: am in the city of Salvador. I took this video

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Speaker 1: of people dancing outside my window late at night. I

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Speaker 1: was trying to sleep, but everyone was so happy. I

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Speaker 1: couldn't be mad. At I went for a gathering of

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Speaker 1: mothers of murdered children. There were about a hundred of

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Speaker 1: us there from all over, all of us fighting the

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Speaker 1: same struggle we're fighting in Chicago. In Salvador, we were

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Speaker 1: not far from the main square where they used to

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Speaker 1: auction off slaves. I was surprised that Brazil was so

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Speaker 1: afrocentric and so black, But then that's when I started

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Speaker 1: to understand the amount of slaves that were actually sent

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Speaker 1: to Brazil, and so it was a learning experience for me.

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Speaker 1: There were so many languages spoken at this summit. Mom

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Speaker 1: after mom we told our stories. There was one mom

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Speaker 1: whose child died of hunger and thirst in prison. There's

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Speaker 1: another mom whose son got shot by police during a massacre.

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Speaker 1: Then it was my turn. My heart rejoices to see

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Speaker 1: the unity that is in this place made you're going

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Speaker 1: to ship Oh my god. Uh, this reunion have brought

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Speaker 1: the pain of a lot of mothers. But my message

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Speaker 1: to the mothers today is I don't want you to

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Speaker 1: mourn any longer, but to rejoice in the life of

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Speaker 1: your children the because they are more than what happened

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Speaker 1: to them. I think about Courtney, I think about all

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Speaker 1: the mothers who told their testimony and stories. And there's

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Speaker 1: one thing that keeps coming to my head. I recalled

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Speaker 1: my aunt telling me after Courtney died, and I tell you,

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Speaker 1: they can never kill the lights. Never kill the light,

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Speaker 1: Courtney Copeland, Brazil. It restored my soul. All this time

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Speaker 1: I've been fighting so hard, I hadn't really had time

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Speaker 1: to mourn. I had put all of that on the

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Speaker 1: shelf because I had work to do. I was starting

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Speaker 1: to feel stronger. And it's a good thing, because when

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Speaker 1: I got back home, I needed all the strength I

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Speaker 1: could get. Our case against the City of Chicago was

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Speaker 1: looking like an uphill battle. The city's lawyers kept fighting

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Speaker 1: us in court. They kept denying everything, even the handcuffing,

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Speaker 1: and eventually my lawyer said we should dismiss the case,

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Speaker 1: that these cases were just too hard to win. I

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Speaker 1: was devastated. I was heartbroken. After the lawyers told us that,

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Speaker 1: Brent and I sat in an empty conference room at

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Speaker 1: the courthouse. We've been through lawyer, lawyer and it's they

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Speaker 1: just they just don't just don't want to mess with it.

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Speaker 1: I think it boils down to what CPD can get

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Speaker 1: away with legally, which for me is the reason why

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Speaker 1: I feel like so many laws and things have to

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Speaker 1: be changed so that that they don't have to they

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Speaker 1: don't have as much power as they do. Yeah, well,

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Speaker 1: the average person in America, you cannot win against CPD.

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Speaker 1: It didn't take long for the police lawyers to announce

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Speaker 1: their victory. They wrote on their website that the lawsuit

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Speaker 1: was unnecessary and they called the dismissal a win for

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Speaker 1: the City of Chicago. In the police department, the lawsuit

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Speaker 1: was over, and our investigation was too. We already gave

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Speaker 1: detectives all of our evidence, the names of suspects and witnesses.

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Speaker 1: But I was not gonna let my baby die for nothing.

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Speaker 1: What if what if the world was different, What if

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Speaker 1: Chicago was different? What if moms like me didn't have

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Speaker 1: to address their son and tuxedos put them in caskets

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Speaker 1: and lower them into the ground. Well, I'm on my

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Speaker 1: way to meet with the state rep right now to

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Speaker 1: propose Courtney's law. Me and my state rep. We've had

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Speaker 1: a couple of conversations now about all the reforms needed,

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Speaker 1: what my investigation has pulled together. Things that I want

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Speaker 1: to try to put into this law. Of Courtney's law

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Speaker 1: is one that police must provide life saving techniques because

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Speaker 1: they were first on the scene. I think that they

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Speaker 1: should have been Minister that I want Chicago police to

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Speaker 1: take people who have been shot immediately to the hospital.

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Speaker 1: And I want those police podcameras to work and whole

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Speaker 1: footage longer, and all the public records they should be

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Speaker 1: all in one place so victims family don't have to

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Speaker 1: get the runner down. So that's why I'm trying to

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Speaker 1: fight for other people. Corney is finished, that is done,

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Speaker 1: but if I can prevent other parents from experiencing this

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Speaker 1: type of pain, what I want for other parents is

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Speaker 1: that they know with certainty that their child died with

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Speaker 1: dignity and respect. I realized that in all of this

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Speaker 1: process that didn't happen for my son. I read the

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Speaker 1: story about a thing that police do in Philadelphia. They

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Speaker 1: call it scoop and run. Police pick up people who

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Speaker 1: have been shot and drive them to the hospital themselves.

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Speaker 1: They don't wait for an ambulance. Here's video of a

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Speaker 1: scooping run in progress. It sounds chaotic, but it's actually

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Speaker 1: police trying to help someone. This was the scariest moment

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Speaker 1: of my life. By far Ian Hurst. Herman's was around

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Speaker 1: the same age as Courtney when he was shot in

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Speaker 1: the middle of the night outside of party in Philly.

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Speaker 1: Two police officers arrived on the scene. They looked at

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Speaker 1: each other, gave a nod. One grab my arms and

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Speaker 1: one grab my legs. Um. The only issue was is

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Speaker 1: this guy going to bleed out or not? So from

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Speaker 1: the time that you got shot until the time that

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Speaker 1: you arrived to the hospital, approximately how many minutes was that?

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Speaker 1: It's hard to say. I would say less than five minutes,

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Speaker 1: Absolutely less than five minutes. In Philly, about a third

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Speaker 1: of gunshot victims are brought into hospit pootles by police themselves.

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Speaker 1: Police save Ian's life by running him to the e R.

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Speaker 1: I found out the next day that I had about

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Speaker 1: forty five seconds to a minute before I would have

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Speaker 1: led out. I was panicking beyond belief. Um, but the

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Speaker 1: police officers were doing everything they can to keep me calm.

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Speaker 1: The one officer was turned around, asked me questions about school,

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Speaker 1: asked me about my family, just trying to keep me

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Speaker 1: awake and alert. Right when they pulled into the emergency room,

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Speaker 1: the ambulance pulled onto the street and one of the

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Speaker 1: cops kind of jokingly said to me, you know, there

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Speaker 1: goes your ride. The way it seems now is if

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Speaker 1: I was shot in any other major city other than Philadelphia,

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Speaker 1: I probably wouldn't have survived. It's kind of hard for

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Speaker 1: me to wrap my head around that not being the case. Um.

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Speaker 1: I know it's not in every cops job description, but

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Speaker 1: it just seems like it seems like thing that just

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Speaker 1: goes along with protecting the community. I always believe that

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Speaker 1: if my son could have gotten the care that you've gotten, Um,

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Speaker 1: that he would be alive today. So had he gotten

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Speaker 1: to the hospital in time, you know, within five minutes,

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Speaker 1: ten minutes max, if he would have gotten to the hospital,

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Speaker 1: I think they could have saved his life. I'm so

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Speaker 1: sorry to hear that. That makes that makes me feel

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Speaker 1: so terrible. Ian has grown close to the officers who

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Speaker 1: saved him. He even tattooed their names on his chest.

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Speaker 1: They came and saw me the next morning after I

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Speaker 1: was shot. UM made a joke about how I got

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Speaker 1: to clean out the back of their car because there's

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Speaker 1: so much blood in it. You know, these two guys

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Speaker 1: saved my life, whether it was their job or not.

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Speaker 1: Um so I still keep in touch with them. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't be here without them, so so I just

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Speaker 1: always keep them really close. I can't help but think

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Speaker 1: how differently I'd feel if those officers had just scooped

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Speaker 1: up my son and rushed him to the hospital. Of course,

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Speaker 1: Ian is white. Would Philly police have picked up Courtney

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Speaker 1: and rushed him to the er? We can't say for sure.

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Speaker 1: Scoop and run is a longstanding practice in Philly, but

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Speaker 1: not in Chicago. It is allowed here. Chicago police have

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Speaker 1: the discretion to do it, but the practice isn't encouraged.

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Speaker 1: What if my son's life mattered to police like Inn's

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Speaker 1: did when officers saved him. What if when my son

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Speaker 1: came to police begging him for help, they didn't handcuff him,

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Speaker 1: they didn't check to see if he really owned his car.

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Speaker 1: What if they went with him in the ambulance. What

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Speaker 1: if it had been their kid who had been shot

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Speaker 1: on that corner. The consent decree is a two page

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Speaker 1: document that is the result of ten months of negotiations

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Speaker 1: between the Attorney General's Office, the Police Department, and the city.

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Speaker 1: After two highly critical reports found systemic problems in the

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Speaker 1: police department in the use of unnecessary and deadly forced

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Speaker 1: in the years since Courtney died, the federal court has

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Speaker 1: ordered Chicago police to clean up their act. Officers will

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Speaker 1: have to report every time they point their guns at people,

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Speaker 1: they won't be able to use chokeos, and there are

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Speaker 1: more changes, lots more changes. Under the consent decree, all

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Speaker 1: of Chicago police officers would have to take medical and

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Speaker 1: rescue training and use it to help people who are injured.

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Speaker 1: Even before paramedics arrived immediately with no delays. They weren't

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Speaker 1: required to do any of that before. It's tough living

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Speaker 1: this life and the skin we're in. This is Courtney's

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Speaker 1: high school friend again, Chance the wrapper. I just wish

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Speaker 1: that he was respected as a human life on the

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Speaker 1: level that that he should have been, that that we

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Speaker 1: respect him. And you know, you can't, you can't change

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Speaker 1: the skin you're in. You're just like you just live

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Speaker 1: your life, and you know he lived it to the fullest.

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Speaker 1: There are so many people, so many people who care

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Speaker 1: about Corney. Every time I've interviewed one of them. It's

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Speaker 1: like I bring him back to life a little. He

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Speaker 1: was one out of a trillion. Everybody needs somebody like

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Speaker 1: like Courton Copeland in life. He taught me to believe

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Speaker 1: in myself. Something he used to always say was like

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Speaker 1: everyone deserves happiness. That's what he gave people. And he

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Speaker 1: would always make me laugh. You know, no matter what,

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Speaker 1: that man would make me laugh. It would make all

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Speaker 1: of us laugh. And I just remember thinking to myself, like,

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Speaker 1: where does he get all this energy from? I miss

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Speaker 1: him dearly because on my difficult days, he was always

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Speaker 1: there for me. If there's more people like him, this

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Speaker 1: world will be a lot different. I tried to interview

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Speaker 1: Courtney's sisters, Kayla and Jasmine. They still aren't ready to

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Speaker 1: talk about what happened. Tell us about your relationship with

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Speaker 1: your brother. It's okay, it's okay, it's okay. You're gonna

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Speaker 1: be able to do this. Mh dress man. I know

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Speaker 1: it's hard for you, it seems so. We talked about

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Speaker 1: other memories. Every day when Courtney came home, he would

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Speaker 1: lay in your bed, right, can tell us about that.

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Speaker 1: I never got to leave my big because he was

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Speaker 1: always there, and he would do it just to annoy me.

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Speaker 1: So what happened when you get home from school? I

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Speaker 1: don't have to find him out of my bed. Why

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Speaker 1: because he wouldn't get up. He wouldn't get up. He's

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Speaker 1: always like to lay in your bed. M h h Hey,

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Speaker 1: Courtney food. I love you, Mommy loves you so much.

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Speaker 1: I hope you knew that. I want I love you.

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Speaker 1: I want to still love you. After all this time,

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Speaker 1: since Courtney passed away, all this fighting for the truth,

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Speaker 1: I just keep coming back to the fact that my

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Speaker 1: baby is gone. We hope you though. Mm hmmm. I

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Speaker 1: started a foundation in Courtney's name. This is our little

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Speaker 1: sound and workshop down here. We do this big Christmas

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Speaker 1: giveaway in Courtney's honor. Every year. His bedroom is filled

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Speaker 1: with toys and we hold this big party at our

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Speaker 1: church for all the kids. Really, like everybody said, Cortney

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Speaker 1: loved the kids. So he used to always take care

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Speaker 1: of all his friends kids and and he like adopted

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Speaker 1: them all. So Hi, what's your name? All Rock? And

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Speaker 1: I got a chance about him the things. At Christmas time,

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Speaker 1: I always get together with my friend Santita Jackson and

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Speaker 1: help her decorate her place. For the holidays. And how

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Speaker 1: have you seen me change in the last two years.

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Speaker 1: You've just become You're just Chapel taken to the in degree.

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Speaker 1: Now now you your circle has expanded. I've seen you

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Speaker 1: become even more traveling. I mean, you're someone who's not

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Speaker 1: afraid of living. You live, you live, you live, you live,

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Speaker 1: you live, you live, live live with live. But I've

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Speaker 1: seen you. This is a mission for you. And it's

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Speaker 1: like you're saying, Okay, Courtney, I'm gonna go on and

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Speaker 1: finish walking for you. The world's gonna benefit, boy, it's

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Speaker 1: gonna benefit from you being more of who Chaparral is.

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Speaker 1: You're gonna triumph. I believe that Courtney's sisters are in

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Speaker 1: college now, But me and Brent don't exactly have an

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Speaker 1: empty ness. Our baby foster twins, Faith in Sahara. They're

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Speaker 1: walking around and getting into everything. I'm trying my best

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Speaker 1: to party train them. Sahara always takes off from her

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Speaker 1: potty and then Faith takes off too. This is gonna

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Speaker 1: be a long process. After taking on the twins, I

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Speaker 1: opened up my home to their older sisters too. They're teenagers.

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Speaker 1: It's tough sometimes, but I hope they know I'm on

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Speaker 1: their side. Me and Brent celebrated our twentieth wedding anniversary.

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Speaker 1: Brent planned a party for us. I got him some

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Speaker 1: turn tables because he was a DJ before he went

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Speaker 1: to truck driving school. He was so stoked. I'm are you.

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Speaker 1: Probably me and Alison and Jamie and all the Invisible

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Speaker 1: Institute are still real tight. We had a party at

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Speaker 1: my house not too long ago. I cooked up with Storm.

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Speaker 1: I'm a spaghetti Cajun chicken pasta fried chicken. Alison brought

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Speaker 1: mac and cheese. She's got her hands full too. She's

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Speaker 1: expecting another little boy next spring. When she told me,

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Speaker 1: I screamed, Oh my goodness. We're gonna get the twins

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Speaker 1: and her little ones together for a play day and

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Speaker 1: then there's baby. Someday we'll have to say goodbye to

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Speaker 1: this car. Cars don't run forever. I call this like

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Speaker 1: my heritage wall. I love black art. It's just it's

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Speaker 1: just our history. And the other day I was showing

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Speaker 1: Alison the paintings all over my house, and so if

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Speaker 1: you look around, this one over here in the corner

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Speaker 1: basically is talking about the woman who touched the hands

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Speaker 1: of Jesus garments. And then this one over here in

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Speaker 1: the corner is about the underground railroad. This one here

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Speaker 1: is a slave in captivity, and that one is m.

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Speaker 1: Frederick Douglas. I always tried to teach my kids about

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Speaker 1: where they came from, about that we didn't start off

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Speaker 1: a slave. But this is something that happens to us.

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Speaker 1: There's one painting in particular in my dining room. It's

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Speaker 1: of a slave, his faces in his hands and his

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Speaker 1: hands are shackled. This painting is called the Struggle Lives

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Speaker 1: on Um. I've probably sat at this table what a

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Speaker 1: dozen times at least, and this is the first time

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Speaker 1: I'm noticing this picture on the wall. I've had it

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Speaker 1: for probably like twenty years now, and it's always been

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Speaker 1: very special to me. And we don't know when the

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Speaker 1: artist was painting that. If he was depicting that was

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Speaker 1: somebody's last moments, last time you know that they're going

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Speaker 1: to be alive. Could be because we see that he's

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Speaker 1: in deep despair. And this is the story of my son, Courtney,

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Speaker 1: a young black man in a fancy car. You black

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Speaker 1: people have been shackled and abuse for so long, and

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Speaker 1: then you have this happened to your child. He wound

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Speaker 1: up with a bullet in his back outside of a

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Speaker 1: Chicago police station. As a mother, you do what for

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Speaker 1: you can to protect your child, and in that moment,

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Speaker 1: I couldn't do it. I couldn't do it. And then

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Speaker 1: you say here and you're like, I should have been there,

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Speaker 1: and it was beyond my control. And it's the story

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Speaker 1: of my search for the truth. The hardest moment in

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Speaker 1: my life was finding out my son had died, and

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Speaker 1: it's still the hardest moment living without him. That's that's

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Speaker 1: that's my reality. My son, Courtney Copeland was somebody. YEA.

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Speaker 1: Somebody is a co production of The Invisible Institute, The Intercept,

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Speaker 1: Topic Studios, and I Heart Radio in association with Tenderfoot TV.

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Speaker 1: I'm Chaparral Wells. This podcast is produced by Alison Flowers

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Speaker 1: and Bill Heally. Sarah Guys is our story editor. Ellen

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Speaker 1: Glover is our associate producer for The Invisible Institute. Jamie

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Speaker 1: Calvin is executive producer for Topic Studios. Maria Zuckerman, Christie Gressman,

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Speaker 1: and Letial Mallard are executive producers. Special thanks to Lizzie

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Speaker 1: Jacobs for The Intercept. Roger Hodge, Deputy editor is supervising producer.

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Speaker 1: Sound designed by Carl Scott and Bart Warshaw. Michael Rayphael

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Speaker 1: is our mixed engineer. Our theme song, Everybody's Something is

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Speaker 1: by Chance the Rapper. Original music for the podcast by

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Speaker 1: Nate Fox of The Social Experiment and Eric Butler. Additional

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Speaker 1: reporting by Sam Stecklo, Annie When, Khari Blackburn, raj Sinclair,

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Speaker 1: Henry Adams, Matilda Voyad, Dana brozos kellerher Frances McDonald, Diana Archmagian,

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Speaker 1: Maddie Anderson, Andrew Fan and risa Apintaku. Translation support by

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Speaker 1: Benny Hernandez Ocampo and Emma Perez. Fact checking by Noah

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Speaker 1: Are Jenny Special thanks to Chris Rasmussen, Bennett Epstein, Matt Topic,

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Speaker 1: David Bralow, and Julie Wolf. We want to hear from you.

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Speaker 1: Email us at info at Somebody podcast dot com or

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Speaker 1: leave us a voicemail at seven seven three to seven

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Speaker 1: zero zero one to one. To learn more about this

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Speaker 1: case and for links to additional materials, go to our

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Speaker 1: show page at Somebody podcast dot com. You can also

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Speaker 1: find a list of everyone we want to think there

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Speaker 1: so many people helped us along the way. Elizabeth van

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Speaker 1: Brocklin's original story Scoop and Run, where cop cars double

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Speaker 1: as ambulances, first appeared in The Trace. Everybody's somebody's everything,

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Speaker 1: Nobodies knocking