1 00:00:09,119 --> 00:00:12,240 Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Savor production of iHeartRadio. I'm Annie Reech. 2 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:14,520 Speaker 2: And Unborn vocal Bum and today we have an episode 3 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:18,360 Speaker 2: for you about pondom Morto Pandoo. 4 00:00:18,440 --> 00:00:22,200 Speaker 1: I had never heard of this. Oh really, yeah, no, 5 00:00:22,440 --> 00:00:25,959 Speaker 1: I know a lot of these episodes we're doing, we've 6 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:32,360 Speaker 1: done around Dia Delos Mertos. I have been woefully ignorant, 7 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:38,200 Speaker 1: so I was excited to learn about it. Yeah, oh yeah, absolutely. 8 00:00:38,720 --> 00:00:43,320 Speaker 2: It is super tasty, A favorite like seasonal holiday treat 9 00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:48,000 Speaker 2: of mine. And I we're lucky here in Atlanta to 10 00:00:48,040 --> 00:00:51,880 Speaker 2: have a really wide group of different immigrants from around 11 00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:55,360 Speaker 2: the world and a bunch of really great international markets 12 00:00:55,520 --> 00:00:59,880 Speaker 2: and so yeah, so there I miss living up on 13 00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:02,680 Speaker 2: Beauford Highway where I had like kind of immediate access 14 00:01:02,720 --> 00:01:03,280 Speaker 2: to stuff like this. 15 00:01:04,160 --> 00:01:09,320 Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yes, yes, which yeah, I mean I'm assuming 16 00:01:10,040 --> 00:01:11,920 Speaker 1: that's why this was on your mind. 17 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:17,280 Speaker 2: It is because, yes, yes, because Lda delis Morthos was 18 00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:19,280 Speaker 2: November first and second, and. 19 00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:24,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, so here we are, here we are. You can 20 00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:28,080 Speaker 1: see our Marigold episode where we did talk about some 21 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:29,959 Speaker 1: of the stuff that we're going to talk about in here. 22 00:01:30,319 --> 00:01:36,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe kind of generally tortillas and tamalas. 23 00:01:38,080 --> 00:01:41,279 Speaker 1: Mm hmmm, any kind of bread related thing, I suppose. 24 00:01:41,120 --> 00:01:45,440 Speaker 2: Sure, yeah, absolutely, yeah, yeah, But I guess that brings 25 00:01:45,520 --> 00:01:46,400 Speaker 2: us to our question. 26 00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:53,960 Speaker 1: I guess it does, pond Demerto, what is it? 27 00:01:54,480 --> 00:01:58,480 Speaker 2: Well, Panda marto is a type of rich, soft, yeast 28 00:01:58,560 --> 00:02:01,760 Speaker 2: raised sweet bread. It's made with a fluffy white wheat 29 00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:05,040 Speaker 2: flour dense with a lot of egg and milk and butter, 30 00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:07,680 Speaker 2: sweetened with a little bit of granulated sugar in the 31 00:02:07,720 --> 00:02:11,280 Speaker 2: dough and more sprinkled over the crust, usually and flavored 32 00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:14,880 Speaker 2: warm and bright and floral, with orange blossom water and 33 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:18,639 Speaker 2: often a bit of orange zest annis and or cinnamon. 34 00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:22,560 Speaker 2: It's shaped into round loaves or buns and decorated on 35 00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:24,639 Speaker 2: top with these kind of bulbous ropes of dough that 36 00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:27,880 Speaker 2: are meant to resemble crossed bones. And that is because 37 00:02:27,919 --> 00:02:31,200 Speaker 2: it is a traditional treat surrounding Elda delis Morthos, which 38 00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:34,200 Speaker 2: is a holiday celebrating loved ones who have died and 39 00:02:34,280 --> 00:02:39,960 Speaker 2: which incorporates a lot of skeletal imagery. It literally means 40 00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:44,400 Speaker 2: bread of the dead pandamorphos. Yes, and Dea delis Moorthos 41 00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:46,360 Speaker 2: is Day of the Dead. Sure, totally, here we go. 42 00:02:46,440 --> 00:02:49,920 Speaker 2: Yes and so yeah, so pandamortho is it's like a 43 00:02:49,919 --> 00:02:53,720 Speaker 2: dessert brioche or holla that reminds you that death is 44 00:02:53,760 --> 00:03:03,200 Speaker 2: part of life. Yeah, it's like it is fragrant and comforting, 45 00:03:03,919 --> 00:03:07,320 Speaker 2: like a warm, bright light in the dark, just welcoming 46 00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:07,760 Speaker 2: you home. 47 00:03:09,840 --> 00:03:16,080 Speaker 1: I love that it's beautiful. Ah and okay. 48 00:03:16,200 --> 00:03:18,720 Speaker 2: I've seen a bunch of different recipes, a bunch of 49 00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:21,920 Speaker 2: different types of recipes for how to work the ingredients together, 50 00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:25,840 Speaker 2: But basically you're looking to make a really rich, fatty 51 00:03:25,919 --> 00:03:29,560 Speaker 2: moist dough with with stuff like milk, butter or lard, 52 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:33,600 Speaker 2: and eggs, either all whole eggs or maybe plus some 53 00:03:33,680 --> 00:03:37,720 Speaker 2: extra yolks. You levi in it with friendly bread yeasts 54 00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:39,760 Speaker 2: which eat some of the sugars and the flour and 55 00:03:39,880 --> 00:03:46,200 Speaker 2: poop carbon dioxide, bubbles and flavors yeast food. You let 56 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:48,400 Speaker 2: it rise, you punch it down, then shape your loaves 57 00:03:48,440 --> 00:03:51,000 Speaker 2: and let them rise again before baking to a fluffy, 58 00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:53,840 Speaker 2: golden brown. Once they're out of the oven, you might 59 00:03:53,880 --> 00:03:55,680 Speaker 2: glaze them with an egg or butter wash as a 60 00:03:55,720 --> 00:03:59,920 Speaker 2: glue and then sprinkle on granulated sugar like Glitter colored 61 00:04:00,320 --> 00:04:03,280 Speaker 2: are optional, Bright pink or red are popular. Depending on 62 00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:06,920 Speaker 2: the area that you're in, and the shape is said 63 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:11,800 Speaker 2: to be symbolic, maybe symbolic of the mounded earth of 64 00:04:11,840 --> 00:04:14,080 Speaker 2: a grave with like bones peeking up out of it, 65 00:04:14,600 --> 00:04:18,000 Speaker 2: or maybe like the circle of life, or maybe the 66 00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:20,880 Speaker 2: tears that we shed for the dead, or the tears 67 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:24,839 Speaker 2: that the dead shed for us. H yeah, or I'm 68 00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:30,280 Speaker 2: not sure. Or maybe a red or pink represents the 69 00:04:30,279 --> 00:04:33,600 Speaker 2: blood of the dead who died wounded. Other shapes can 70 00:04:33,640 --> 00:04:35,560 Speaker 2: be made with the bread. You can make it into 71 00:04:35,560 --> 00:04:37,839 Speaker 2: a doughnut shape or a doll shape, or like a 72 00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:40,880 Speaker 2: chubby little skeleton with slashes and pinches of dough for 73 00:04:40,920 --> 00:04:44,120 Speaker 2: the arms and legs and head. In parts of Wahaka, 74 00:04:44,360 --> 00:04:47,960 Speaker 2: you might add an edible painted face or skull onto 75 00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:52,040 Speaker 2: the finished bread. In other areas, motifs could involve flowers 76 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:55,800 Speaker 2: or animals, real or mythical. You might make it into 77 00:04:55,800 --> 00:04:59,320 Speaker 2: the shape of a cross or an angel or braided bones. 78 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:02,120 Speaker 1: There are all. 79 00:05:01,960 --> 00:05:07,000 Speaker 2: Kinds of variations, and especially in flavoring, like how much 80 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:07,960 Speaker 2: sugar do you use? 81 00:05:08,200 --> 00:05:10,279 Speaker 1: Do you want? Just the orange. 82 00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:13,560 Speaker 2: Blossom water is and it's important to balance out. The 83 00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:17,440 Speaker 2: sweetness is orange zest. What really makes it shine is cinnamon, 84 00:05:17,520 --> 00:05:19,720 Speaker 2: the warming element that you need. I mean, do you 85 00:05:19,760 --> 00:05:21,880 Speaker 2: want to add chocolate chips? I cannot stop you, and 86 00:05:21,880 --> 00:05:25,440 Speaker 2: I would not. Furthermore, if you want to add other 87 00:05:25,480 --> 00:05:29,720 Speaker 2: herbs or spices like lavender or cardamom, maybe a filling 88 00:05:30,040 --> 00:05:34,560 Speaker 2: or a stuffing of cream, chocolate, guava paste, goat milk, caramel, 89 00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:39,320 Speaker 2: rice pudding, flyan ice cream. I've seen it topped with 90 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:42,560 Speaker 2: sesame seeds or pumpkin seeds for like a less sweet, 91 00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:45,760 Speaker 2: more savory kind of take, or like going all in 92 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:48,440 Speaker 2: with like a sweet white chocolate or dark chocolate, or 93 00:05:48,520 --> 00:05:49,800 Speaker 2: like sticky bunglaze. 94 00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:54,880 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, wow. And they're beautiful, Like a lot of 95 00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:56,560 Speaker 1: them are really pretty dello cats. 96 00:05:56,680 --> 00:06:00,520 Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, I've really only had like the very basic kind. 97 00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:04,160 Speaker 2: But now I'm like, okay, need to find need to 98 00:06:04,200 --> 00:06:09,240 Speaker 2: find the door create some of these variants. Another variant. 99 00:06:09,279 --> 00:06:11,520 Speaker 2: It's not even it's not always a wheat flour dough. 100 00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:16,000 Speaker 2: Corn doughs can be used, and like these are a 101 00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:19,040 Speaker 2: lot of examples, but it's honestly just scratching the surface, 102 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:21,560 Speaker 2: you know, Like, if there's one that is that is 103 00:06:21,640 --> 00:06:23,320 Speaker 2: precious to you, please write in. 104 00:06:24,160 --> 00:06:27,719 Speaker 1: Yes, please write in pictures if you have those. 105 00:06:27,680 --> 00:06:33,640 Speaker 2: Yes, yes, recipes, yes, all right. Fundamortho is mostly served 106 00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:37,120 Speaker 2: as like a snack surrounding lda delas mortos, maybe with 107 00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:40,280 Speaker 2: like a nice hot coffee or a hot chocolate. They 108 00:06:40,279 --> 00:06:44,280 Speaker 2: can also be incorporated into afrendas, which are sort of 109 00:06:44,320 --> 00:06:47,360 Speaker 2: shrines or altars to loved ones who have passed, and 110 00:06:47,720 --> 00:06:51,640 Speaker 2: which furthermore incorporate those loved ones favorite foods and drinks 111 00:06:51,680 --> 00:06:54,760 Speaker 2: along with you know, like photos, some marigolds, you know, 112 00:06:55,080 --> 00:07:00,080 Speaker 2: bright and fragrant, orange yellow, some sugar skulls, some some colabadas, 113 00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:03,200 Speaker 2: which are skeletons usually that are like doing stuff like 114 00:07:03,360 --> 00:07:07,400 Speaker 2: I don't know, like being a fireman or playing soccer. 115 00:07:07,480 --> 00:07:10,800 Speaker 2: I'm not sure, yeah, whatever they want to do. Candles, incense, 116 00:07:10,920 --> 00:07:14,360 Speaker 2: other decor a friend us are meant to remind you 117 00:07:14,440 --> 00:07:16,880 Speaker 2: of the deceased and what they loved in life and 118 00:07:16,960 --> 00:07:21,680 Speaker 2: to welcome them back to celebrate with you. Pendewathough is 119 00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:25,760 Speaker 2: traditionally made it home, but especially leading up to the holiday. 120 00:07:25,840 --> 00:07:28,920 Speaker 2: You can find it in bakeries and from street vendors 121 00:07:29,160 --> 00:07:33,040 Speaker 2: all around Mexico, where it is mostly from, and also 122 00:07:33,080 --> 00:07:35,440 Speaker 2: other places where the holiday is celebrated and or where 123 00:07:35,480 --> 00:07:37,080 Speaker 2: Mexican people have integrated. 124 00:07:38,840 --> 00:07:42,400 Speaker 1: Yes, Wow. What about the nutrition. 125 00:07:43,080 --> 00:07:47,960 Speaker 2: Oh, there's it depends, but it's probably a treats are nice. 126 00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:52,760 Speaker 1: Treats are nice treats. You're nice. We don't have much 127 00:07:52,760 --> 00:07:56,400 Speaker 1: in the way for numbers for you, but we have one, yes, 128 00:07:56,800 --> 00:08:00,640 Speaker 1: one that I found, and I actually we saw a 129 00:08:00,760 --> 00:08:03,960 Speaker 1: lot of different versions of this number. So, okay, grain 130 00:08:04,040 --> 00:08:09,120 Speaker 1: of salt. But bakeries across Mexico prepare over four hundred 131 00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:14,000 Speaker 1: types of pandomerto during Lda de los Martos. So there's 132 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:17,320 Speaker 1: a lot of different types, and there are a lot 133 00:08:17,320 --> 00:08:20,480 Speaker 1: of different like specific regional variations I found. 134 00:08:20,680 --> 00:08:25,760 Speaker 2: Oh oh absolutely, yeah, yeah, totally and right, Yeah, that 135 00:08:26,080 --> 00:08:28,800 Speaker 2: number was in nat GEO, so I have be sure 136 00:08:28,840 --> 00:08:29,160 Speaker 2: why not? 137 00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:33,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, most of them I found for less, and I'm 138 00:08:33,320 --> 00:08:38,280 Speaker 1: inclined to believe there are more actually, so yeah, absolutely, yeah, yeah, 139 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:41,160 Speaker 1: but to say, there are a lot of different numbers. 140 00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:44,520 Speaker 1: But that brings us to the history. 141 00:08:44,840 --> 00:08:47,559 Speaker 2: Oh yes, and we are going to get into that 142 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:49,280 Speaker 2: as soon as we get back from a quick break 143 00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:50,800 Speaker 2: forward from our sponsors. 144 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:03,120 Speaker 1: And we're back. Thank you sponsored, Yes, thank you, and 145 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:08,480 Speaker 1: we're back with a not so fun disclaimer. Yeah, but yes, 146 00:09:08,960 --> 00:09:13,480 Speaker 1: a lot of the language in resources I found around 147 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:16,360 Speaker 1: this topic was slash is because some of them are 148 00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:21,959 Speaker 1: pretty recent, pretty offensive, and also very skewed, which we're 149 00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:25,640 Speaker 1: going to talk about. Oh yeah. Section that being said, 150 00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:29,400 Speaker 1: a lot of sources claim that this bread traces back 151 00:09:29,440 --> 00:09:32,319 Speaker 1: to the arrival of Spanish colonizers to what is now 152 00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:35,160 Speaker 1: Mexico and surrounding areas in the fifteen hundreds. 153 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:39,480 Speaker 2: Yes, okay, so when the Spanish showed up, the group 154 00:09:39,520 --> 00:09:46,080 Speaker 2: in power, the reigning power sure was perhaps what's least 155 00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:50,360 Speaker 2: confusingly known as the Triple Alliance, often called the Aztec Empire. 156 00:09:51,200 --> 00:09:54,680 Speaker 2: Aztec is actually a more modern term that got retroactively applied, 157 00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:58,360 Speaker 2: and it's been applied unevenly to different people's So yes, 158 00:09:58,559 --> 00:10:01,280 Speaker 2: I'm going to stick with the trip Alliance, referring to 159 00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:04,440 Speaker 2: the empire made up of these three city states in 160 00:10:04,520 --> 00:10:06,640 Speaker 2: what's now known as the Valley of Mexico. 161 00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:07,880 Speaker 1: Okay, Okay. 162 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:11,680 Speaker 2: Although there were a blend of people's and traditions in 163 00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:14,439 Speaker 2: the area, one of the big community festivals at the 164 00:10:14,480 --> 00:10:18,439 Speaker 2: time was this month long celebration of the Dead, which 165 00:10:18,559 --> 00:10:20,960 Speaker 2: happened in the ninth month of their calendar, right around 166 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:26,319 Speaker 2: like late July early August aka harvest season, and various 167 00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:29,560 Speaker 2: pieces of this tradition stretch back like three thousand years, 168 00:10:30,040 --> 00:10:32,600 Speaker 2: but by this point a large part of it involved 169 00:10:32,600 --> 00:10:35,320 Speaker 2: honoring a goddess known as the Lady of the Dead 170 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:41,239 Speaker 2: and the keeper of the underworld Miteka Suat who manawad 171 00:10:41,320 --> 00:10:45,040 Speaker 2: is not good. I apologize, I'm making efforts, but yeah. 172 00:10:45,040 --> 00:10:48,320 Speaker 2: So she and her husband were portrayed as having these 173 00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:52,760 Speaker 2: skeletal faces and is wearing necklaces of skulls and severed hands, 174 00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:57,760 Speaker 2: and there was dance and offerings and food all month long. 175 00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:04,360 Speaker 2: And you know, humans like bread. It's almost certain that 176 00:11:04,480 --> 00:11:07,319 Speaker 2: some kind of bread type product was part of these traditions. 177 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:11,360 Speaker 2: There were definitely bread type offerings made to other gods 178 00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:15,360 Speaker 2: like the tech Titlan patron god of the sun and 179 00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:19,760 Speaker 2: of war, and also to spirits of the dead, like 180 00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:22,600 Speaker 2: those of women who had died in childbirth, perhaps especially 181 00:11:22,679 --> 00:11:27,880 Speaker 2: their first childbirth. However, okay, a few things. Wheat did 182 00:11:27,920 --> 00:11:31,880 Speaker 2: not exist in the area until colonization. Any bread offerings 183 00:11:31,880 --> 00:11:35,120 Speaker 2: at the time would have been flatbreads, including tortillas or 184 00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:39,800 Speaker 2: tamales made with amaranth or corn. Granulated sugar had not 185 00:11:39,840 --> 00:11:42,520 Speaker 2: reached the area either. Honey might have been used as 186 00:11:42,520 --> 00:11:45,560 Speaker 2: a sweetener. The Spanish were also the ones who brought oranges, 187 00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:49,080 Speaker 2: though those did catch on like particularly fast in the area. 188 00:11:49,120 --> 00:11:53,000 Speaker 2: But okay, so yes, that is the type of bread 189 00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:56,160 Speaker 2: that we would have been dealing with. Meanwhile, symbols used 190 00:11:56,160 --> 00:12:00,200 Speaker 2: for decorations of ritual breads sometimes included butterflies, which are 191 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:03,679 Speaker 2: a fall seasonal thing in the area, because monarch butterflies 192 00:12:03,760 --> 00:12:06,120 Speaker 2: migrate south for the winter from like all the way 193 00:12:06,160 --> 00:12:09,760 Speaker 2: up through what's now Canada every fall. So some cultures, 194 00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:13,600 Speaker 2: especially up in the mountain forest areas of that part 195 00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:16,240 Speaker 2: of the world, have associated the return of the monarchs 196 00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:19,719 Speaker 2: with the harvest season, with the return of spirits of 197 00:12:19,760 --> 00:12:23,640 Speaker 2: the dead. You can still find a few butterfly symbols 198 00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:29,760 Speaker 2: floating around today. So yes, offerings of breads were a thing. 199 00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:35,239 Speaker 2: Pandamortos or any like direct corollary to it was probably 200 00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:40,080 Speaker 2: not a thing when the Spanish arrived. I say probably 201 00:12:40,440 --> 00:12:43,280 Speaker 2: because part of the problem in sussing out the pre 202 00:12:43,440 --> 00:12:47,679 Speaker 2: Hispanic history of traditions in this area is that a 203 00:12:47,679 --> 00:12:49,680 Speaker 2: lot of what has been told about it, like up 204 00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:56,280 Speaker 2: until very recently, has been superbiased Spanish colonist tellings or 205 00:12:56,320 --> 00:13:02,040 Speaker 2: straight up retcons of that history, which they basically did 206 00:13:02,280 --> 00:13:06,160 Speaker 2: as an excuse to take over. Like researchers are still 207 00:13:06,280 --> 00:13:10,240 Speaker 2: uncovering writings and artifacts and like figuring out what was 208 00:13:10,280 --> 00:13:13,880 Speaker 2: really going on before and when the Spanish showed. 209 00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:18,439 Speaker 1: Up, right, and when the Spanish showed up, they immediately 210 00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:24,320 Speaker 1: set about enforcing Christianity and erasing and were changing the traditions, beliefs, 211 00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:25,120 Speaker 1: and culture. 212 00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:27,640 Speaker 2: One of the things that they did was they looked 213 00:13:27,679 --> 00:13:30,680 Speaker 2: at this seasonal fall festival and went, well, this isn't 214 00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:33,840 Speaker 2: going to do. So they tried to like reshape and 215 00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:39,120 Speaker 2: refit its traditions into existing Catholic holidays. For example, All 216 00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:42,160 Speaker 2: Saints Day and All Souls Day, which occur on November 217 00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:45,400 Speaker 2: first and November twod. All Saints Day remembers and honors 218 00:13:45,400 --> 00:13:47,720 Speaker 2: saints who are now in heaven, and All Souls Day 219 00:13:48,120 --> 00:13:49,880 Speaker 2: is the time to pray for souls of loved ones 220 00:13:49,880 --> 00:13:53,560 Speaker 2: who might be trapped in purgatory awaiting entrance into heaven. 221 00:13:55,040 --> 00:13:59,040 Speaker 1: And Pontemrtos was part of all of this. Yeah. 222 00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:03,480 Speaker 2: There they were pretty popularly told I would call them 223 00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:09,520 Speaker 2: myths that Pandamortos was created as a substitution for barbaric rituals. 224 00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:13,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, that it represented the still beating hearts and blood 225 00:14:13,400 --> 00:14:17,280 Speaker 1: of virgins or in some accounts a specific princess as 226 00:14:17,320 --> 00:14:21,320 Speaker 1: mentioned sacrifice to pagan gods, and in some sources it 227 00:14:21,400 --> 00:14:25,840 Speaker 1: was blood mixed with dough and this whole thing. The 228 00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:29,760 Speaker 1: mythsay that traditionally used ingredients like amaranth changed to wheat 229 00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:33,280 Speaker 1: because the Spanish pushed wheat making. The bread was further 230 00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:36,840 Speaker 1: sweetened with sugar, that the Spanish brought red coloring was 231 00:14:36,880 --> 00:14:40,680 Speaker 1: added to represent blood, and that the shape changed too, 232 00:14:41,200 --> 00:14:46,720 Speaker 1: though not in all cases, and it was commercialized, but notably, 233 00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:50,600 Speaker 1: Indigenous people fought to protect the tradition celebrating and remembering 234 00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:51,920 Speaker 1: the dead and this bread. 235 00:14:53,040 --> 00:15:00,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, and like, okay, look, upper class priests in the 236 00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:05,920 Speaker 2: Triple Alliance did certainly promote and enact human sacrifice, especially 237 00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:09,760 Speaker 2: during a certain period of their power, and those sacrifices 238 00:15:09,800 --> 00:15:14,119 Speaker 2: were culturally important. But like if you just think about it, 239 00:15:14,280 --> 00:15:17,600 Speaker 2: like obviously that wasn't a huge part of daily life 240 00:15:17,680 --> 00:15:20,680 Speaker 2: for everybody. Uh, Like it wouldn't have been you know, 241 00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:24,520 Speaker 2: like whoo, princess hearts all around. Let's go, like every holiday, 242 00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:28,320 Speaker 2: you wouldn't have just been munched on princess hearts, like 243 00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:30,480 Speaker 2: and obviously not to the point that like the common 244 00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:33,280 Speaker 2: dude down the street would need to be placated when 245 00:15:33,280 --> 00:15:37,080 Speaker 2: you took away his princess heart with a symbolic heartbread. 246 00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:41,400 Speaker 2: You know, like these were communities of artisans and scholars 247 00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:46,360 Speaker 2: and farmers and yes, fighters and priests. But these peoples 248 00:15:46,360 --> 00:15:50,960 Speaker 2: were people, and reducing their cultures to woo human sacrifice 249 00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:54,800 Speaker 2: is silly. Uh, Like it's missing out on everything else 250 00:15:54,840 --> 00:15:55,880 Speaker 2: that they have to offer the world. 251 00:15:57,600 --> 00:16:00,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's Laurence. That's Laurren's killed Corner. 252 00:16:03,520 --> 00:16:06,200 Speaker 2: Also, a book that I have not read, but I 253 00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:09,640 Speaker 2: read a great interview with the author about and I 254 00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:11,920 Speaker 2: want to get a hold of a copy is called 255 00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:15,800 Speaker 2: Fifth Sun, a New History of the Aztecs, and that 256 00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:19,760 Speaker 2: author is one Camilla Townsend. It seems like it's digging 257 00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:25,160 Speaker 2: into a lot of scholarly work, writings from people of 258 00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:27,880 Speaker 2: the time, and you know, kind of trying to yeah, yeah, yeah, 259 00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:31,120 Speaker 2: put together a more realistic and more rounded view of 260 00:16:31,160 --> 00:16:32,360 Speaker 2: what these peoples were. 261 00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:37,480 Speaker 1: Up to, Yes, which is very important, And I would 262 00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:41,440 Speaker 1: like to read that too. As you said, the Spanish 263 00:16:42,080 --> 00:16:46,480 Speaker 1: we're celebrating at this time all Souls Day and All Saints' Day, 264 00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:49,720 Speaker 1: and that goes back as far as the tenth century 265 00:16:49,760 --> 00:16:53,360 Speaker 1: CE in Europe at least, and they celebrated it with 266 00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:57,400 Speaker 1: ponda anymus or soul bread, which was an offering on 267 00:16:57,440 --> 00:17:00,960 Speaker 1: those days that was given to honor pass to love ones, 268 00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:06,640 Speaker 1: past loved ones, lost loved ones. So in some accounts 269 00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:10,520 Speaker 1: they basically use this bread and tradition to overtake a race, 270 00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:14,560 Speaker 1: combine with whatever offerings were being made in order to 271 00:17:14,600 --> 00:17:19,640 Speaker 1: come up with pan dumuertos. I also read an interesting 272 00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:23,600 Speaker 1: interview with someone else that he was making the argument 273 00:17:23,680 --> 00:17:25,240 Speaker 1: that it might have been a bit of a metaphor 274 00:17:25,320 --> 00:17:30,600 Speaker 1: that got lost. Okay, okay, so that in pan deemertos 275 00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:35,600 Speaker 1: you're essentially symbolically eating the dead, and the Spanish were 276 00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:39,879 Speaker 1: not on board with what they called cannibalism and the 277 00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:43,720 Speaker 1: cannibalism of the symbol. I should say, But when I 278 00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:46,359 Speaker 1: read that, I was like, but like Christianity, and in 279 00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:50,640 Speaker 1: particular Catholicism has the whole body and blood of Christ, 280 00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:57,840 Speaker 1: I don't know, Yeah, that's I don't wanna. I oh man. 281 00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:03,879 Speaker 2: I Catholics are so heck in goth It's like, all right, yes, yes. 282 00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:06,719 Speaker 1: That my body and the blood. 283 00:18:06,840 --> 00:18:14,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, well at any rate. Yes, cemetery vigils and afrendos 284 00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:18,920 Speaker 2: were also part of Spanish celebrations of All Saints and 285 00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:22,879 Speaker 2: All Souls days. But okay, However all of this got started, 286 00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:28,520 Speaker 2: communities in what's now Mexico adopted a blend of indigenous 287 00:18:28,560 --> 00:18:32,119 Speaker 2: and Spanish and other European practices, and over the centuries 288 00:18:32,119 --> 00:18:35,600 Speaker 2: that blend morphed into the holiday and the bread that 289 00:18:35,680 --> 00:18:40,080 Speaker 2: we have today. During the seventeen hundreds, rulers in New 290 00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:45,159 Speaker 2: Spain actually tried to outlaw cemetery festivities and so during 291 00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:47,919 Speaker 2: that and they were like, this is too raucous. You 292 00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:51,119 Speaker 2: guys are going too hard. You're celebrating too much. It's 293 00:18:51,160 --> 00:18:54,760 Speaker 2: getting dangerous. So during that point and other points, like 294 00:18:54,840 --> 00:18:57,560 Speaker 2: during the Mexican American social movement of the nineteen sixties, 295 00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:02,000 Speaker 2: symbolic traditions like a friend of and Pandemorto have been 296 00:19:02,119 --> 00:19:03,080 Speaker 2: forms of resistance. 297 00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:11,280 Speaker 1: In twenty ten, Jumping with UNESCO declared it an intangible 298 00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:13,960 Speaker 1: cultural heritage of humanity. 299 00:19:13,720 --> 00:19:16,840 Speaker 2: Or not Pandemonico specifically, but about Mexican cuisine in general, 300 00:19:17,520 --> 00:19:21,679 Speaker 2: including Day of the Dead, symbolic foods and Lda delos 301 00:19:21,680 --> 00:19:25,520 Speaker 2: mortos more generally was added to their list. In two 302 00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:28,679 Speaker 2: thousand and eight as well. 303 00:19:28,760 --> 00:19:33,600 Speaker 1: And yeah, the pandemic really hit Elda de los Morto's 304 00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:38,720 Speaker 1: celebrations pretty hard since they're often communal, or a lot 305 00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:42,520 Speaker 1: of aspects of them certainly are. I've found articles from 306 00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:47,639 Speaker 1: folks who, in absence of the public celebration part made 307 00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:53,639 Speaker 1: sure to get pon de Mortos. Still, it inevitably impacted 308 00:19:53,680 --> 00:20:00,560 Speaker 1: traditional bakers as well. Oh sure. Yeah, also us discussed 309 00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:03,840 Speaker 1: in Our Amerigold's episode thanks to things like the twenty 310 00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:06,720 Speaker 1: seventeen film Coco. I laugh because it comes up in 311 00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:15,080 Speaker 1: every article. That's all it really does about Ldad loves 312 00:20:15,119 --> 00:20:19,080 Speaker 1: Marto's LATINX communities and especially younger folks in the community 313 00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:22,600 Speaker 1: have been reclaiming or even celebrating for the first time, 314 00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:26,600 Speaker 1: especially outside of Mexico, feeling like, Okay, I would like 315 00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:30,080 Speaker 1: to explore this, I would like to reconnect with this. Yeah. Yeah, 316 00:20:30,119 --> 00:20:31,920 Speaker 1: And I found a good quote I want to end 317 00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:38,200 Speaker 1: with from Adriana Veles at The Washington Post in twenty twenty. Quote. 318 00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:41,280 Speaker 1: For me, crafting this bread by hand is an embodied 319 00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:45,040 Speaker 1: meditation through its very corporeal motions, I reflect on all 320 00:20:45,080 --> 00:20:48,439 Speaker 1: the mythologies around the world of God's creating humans of 321 00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:51,880 Speaker 1: how they take substances from the earth and animate them 322 00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:55,640 Speaker 1: using nothing more than their bare hands. As I need. 323 00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:58,440 Speaker 1: I am aware of my breath, my body, and I 324 00:20:58,480 --> 00:21:00,639 Speaker 1: am a god using the alchemy of cea eats, water 325 00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:04,000 Speaker 1: and motions to create life. When the dough rises, I 326 00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:08,639 Speaker 1: admire my creation, filled as it is with spirits. I 327 00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:11,959 Speaker 1: conquer death, if only for today, and I connect with 328 00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:16,720 Speaker 1: my ancestors who helped me see past this momentary crisis. 329 00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:20,280 Speaker 1: I feel the generations before, in the generations to come. 330 00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:24,520 Speaker 1: I cross dimensions of time and space. My ancestors have 331 00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:28,920 Speaker 1: seen war, genocide, bondage, heartbreak, and yet here I am 332 00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:33,679 Speaker 1: their descendant, working dough in their honor, for now, for 333 00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:36,040 Speaker 1: those we lost this year, for those who will rise 334 00:21:36,119 --> 00:21:41,280 Speaker 1: up in the future. Yeah, so good, that's pretty perfect. 335 00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:45,119 Speaker 1: That's really lovely. It is, it really is. It's a 336 00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:51,840 Speaker 1: great article. Yeah, I suggest seeking it out. Oh but yeah, listeners, 337 00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:56,800 Speaker 1: we would love to hear from you about this recipes history, 338 00:21:57,640 --> 00:22:01,640 Speaker 1: pictures recommendation. 339 00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:05,600 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, oh how could you if you got 340 00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:09,960 Speaker 2: if you've got a favorite bakery, if if there's any 341 00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:14,000 Speaker 2: other holiday foods that are really important to you or 342 00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:17,560 Speaker 2: that you add to an offerenda for somebody who who's past, 343 00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:18,080 Speaker 2: who you love. 344 00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:22,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, let us know, yes, please let us know. But 345 00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:25,360 Speaker 1: in the meantime, that's what we have to say for now. 346 00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:27,280 Speaker 1: It is. 347 00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:30,080 Speaker 2: We do already have some listener mail for you, though, 348 00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:31,400 Speaker 2: and we are going to get into that as soon 349 00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:33,040 Speaker 2: as we get back from one more quick break for 350 00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:45,120 Speaker 2: a word from our sponsors, and we're back. Thank you, sponsors, Yes, 351 00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:46,600 Speaker 2: thank you, and. 352 00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:54,280 Speaker 1: We're back with listeners. Man like a light in the dark. 353 00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:59,280 Speaker 1: Uh yeah, it is a little chilly in it right now. 354 00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:02,399 Speaker 1: It is. It is. My toes are cold. It's fine. 355 00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:09,760 Speaker 1: My toes are too, and I'm working socks. So we 356 00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:15,680 Speaker 1: got a message from what the email subject line indicates 357 00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:20,199 Speaker 1: name is Steven. My my name is Stephen mysterious, but 358 00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:24,640 Speaker 1: at the bottom signed a very pleased Kafir witch so 359 00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:29,000 Speaker 1: or you don't know, but there you go. Whoever it was, 360 00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:33,440 Speaker 1: thanks for writing in, they wrote. After years of listening, 361 00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:36,919 Speaker 1: waiting and not even considering requesting it, you've done an 362 00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:41,280 Speaker 1: episode on one of my special interest Kafir. I literally 363 00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:44,920 Speaker 1: audibly gasped when I saw the episode title, my kaf 364 00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:47,200 Speaker 1: Your journey began in childhood when my aunt used to 365 00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:50,280 Speaker 1: make it using goat milk from her personal team of goats. 366 00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:53,560 Speaker 1: Since I was a snooty child, I thought it was gross, 367 00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:58,000 Speaker 1: though fascinating, and refused to drink it. Cut to my 368 00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:00,320 Speaker 1: mid twenties and I ordered my own grains on and 369 00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:04,480 Speaker 1: enjoyed many of my own homemade kaffir creations. There are 370 00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:07,320 Speaker 1: too many for me to list, but some highlights were 371 00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:11,600 Speaker 1: lazy kaffir sourdough bread and kaffir sodas, which are made 372 00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:13,840 Speaker 1: from the way that you drain from the finished product. 373 00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:16,520 Speaker 1: The bonus of draining the way is that the milk 374 00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:20,000 Speaker 1: solid product that's left has the consistency of Greek yogurt 375 00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:23,920 Speaker 1: and can be used as such en snacking and recipes. Sadly, 376 00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:26,320 Speaker 1: I threw out my grains when I started nursing school 377 00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:29,040 Speaker 1: and my life got too hectic. But I will order 378 00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:31,720 Speaker 1: them again when the weather cools more thoroughly here in 379 00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:34,240 Speaker 1: the West and the grains are more likely to survive 380 00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:38,080 Speaker 1: the journey. Oh oh, there's so much to love here. 381 00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:44,640 Speaker 2: Yes, yes, I'll scheam of goats, teams of goats, uh, 382 00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:52,200 Speaker 2: kafir witchery, Yes, lazy sour dough bread, Yes, yeah, pier sodas. 383 00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:57,480 Speaker 1: Heck mm hmmm, I love it. I hope you're right 384 00:24:57,560 --> 00:24:59,840 Speaker 1: back in and let us know more about your grain 385 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:04,720 Speaker 1: if they make it. Yeah, yeah, well follow up would 386 00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:05,040 Speaker 1: be great. 387 00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:08,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely tell us all about any time that anyone 388 00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:11,680 Speaker 2: has a microbial community that they want. 389 00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:15,560 Speaker 1: To let us know about. Yes, you do. 390 00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:22,840 Speaker 2: Andrew wrote a long long time. I am an episode 391 00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:25,639 Speaker 2: or two behind, but your cult episode inspired me to 392 00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:28,800 Speaker 2: write in. There's a local brewery here in Indianapolis, a 393 00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:32,880 Speaker 2: beer brewery which does a once weekly let's have more 394 00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:36,960 Speaker 2: than enough cult service. Alas, it's on Monday evening, so 395 00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:39,440 Speaker 2: I've never gotten to participate, but I might just give 396 00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:41,360 Speaker 2: it a go next time I have a Tuesday off 397 00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:45,080 Speaker 2: of work. This brewery also does the best pumpkin ale around. 398 00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:49,080 Speaker 2: As a much too experienced pumpkin beer drinker, I really 399 00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:50,920 Speaker 2: do mean it when I say it's autumn and a glass. 400 00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:54,520 Speaker 2: Y'all done a pumpkin beer episode. My favorite local place 401 00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:58,320 Speaker 2: also does a citra hopped cult in named the Sammy 402 00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:01,960 Speaker 2: Terry after a spooky regional TV host from years past. 403 00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:04,119 Speaker 2: It's a great one for sitting on the porch and 404 00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:07,600 Speaker 2: tossing a ball with our three dogs. Bonus fact. The 405 00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:11,520 Speaker 2: joint I'm referring to is a lovely, kitchy horror themed brewery. 406 00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:14,920 Speaker 2: Oh and half the space has now been converted into 407 00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:20,679 Speaker 2: a sami tery dedicated dungeon for October. Bonus bonus fact. 408 00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:23,359 Speaker 2: This is the same brewery that made a dill cult 409 00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:26,200 Speaker 2: in support of Ukraine back in the early days of 410 00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:30,560 Speaker 2: the ongoing conflict. There another beer related tidbit goes back 411 00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:33,919 Speaker 2: to your Soba episode. Another small place here does a 412 00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:37,600 Speaker 2: soba ale brewed with buckwheat. The beer is fine, so 413 00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:40,280 Speaker 2: I'm including this more because the brewery seems right up 414 00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:43,480 Speaker 2: your alley. Books and Brews is a tap room in 415 00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:46,879 Speaker 2: the back and used bookshop slash tabletop game center slash 416 00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:49,160 Speaker 2: Funko pop boutique. 417 00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:49,159 Speaker 1: In the front. 418 00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:51,679 Speaker 2: It's one of the few places here where reading and 419 00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:55,840 Speaker 2: quietly enjoying a brew is actually acceptable. Definitely worth a visit. 420 00:26:56,720 --> 00:26:59,520 Speaker 2: Ps Indy was just recently voted one of the top 421 00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:02,240 Speaker 2: beer city in the country by USA Today. If you 422 00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:04,199 Speaker 2: ever make it to gen Con, you'll have plenty of 423 00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:08,439 Speaker 2: excellent spots to try PPS. Since I brought up Dill above, 424 00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:11,840 Speaker 2: I have one last fundl story to share. My wife's 425 00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:14,520 Speaker 2: late grandmother would often bring a dill flavored dip to 426 00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:19,000 Speaker 2: family gatherings. The ubiquitous dip became simply known as Granny 427 00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:22,280 Speaker 2: Dip after Granny's passing several years ago. The recipe was 428 00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:25,280 Speaker 2: willed to a cousin I love this, who then gifted 429 00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:28,680 Speaker 2: it to us for our wedding. Anytime either of our 430 00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:31,320 Speaker 2: families are getting together, my wife will offer to make 431 00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:34,320 Speaker 2: the dip, and my answer is one hundred percent yes. 432 00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:40,280 Speaker 1: Oh, Granny diplled willed. 433 00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:43,159 Speaker 2: The recipe was willed to a cousin and then gifted 434 00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:45,159 Speaker 2: on the occasion of a wedding. 435 00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:48,480 Speaker 1: This is so cool, so awesome. I want like a 436 00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:52,960 Speaker 1: Game of Thrones level like production of this. 437 00:27:55,680 --> 00:28:00,680 Speaker 2: Granny recipe right, so much better better than the redder 438 00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:08,679 Speaker 2: Purple wedding gifts. Yeah, yeah, yes, also yeah, all these 439 00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:16,639 Speaker 2: breweries sound amazing. Yeah, Haunted Brewery, book brewery, sober bucket beer. 440 00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:19,280 Speaker 1: Yeah. 441 00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:22,000 Speaker 2: I would be in so much trouble if we had 442 00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:27,560 Speaker 2: a combo used bookstore and bar of any kind, I 443 00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:29,840 Speaker 2: would I would be I would be like half a 444 00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:32,280 Speaker 2: beer in and I would be like, I'm buying everything here, 445 00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:36,000 Speaker 2: literally everything, uh huh. 446 00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:37,720 Speaker 1: Yep, And then it would be even worse. If it 447 00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:42,200 Speaker 1: was kind of like Haunted Themes, then I'm never leaving 448 00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:45,760 Speaker 1: ah heck. 449 00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:51,080 Speaker 2: Also, I do love a really a regional TV host situation, 450 00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:55,240 Speaker 2: and Sammy Terry sounds wonderful, just delightful. 451 00:28:56,040 --> 00:29:00,560 Speaker 1: I love that too. I love that the level. Yeah reached, 452 00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:09,680 Speaker 1: that's fantastic. Oh oh so good? Well it maybe one day, Lauren, Yeah. 453 00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:11,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, adding it, adding it to our list of places 454 00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:16,960 Speaker 2: to go, Yes, wherever, growing list. Oh well. 455 00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:19,920 Speaker 1: In the meantime, thanks to both these listeners for writing in. 456 00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:22,120 Speaker 1: If you would like to write to us, you can 457 00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:24,680 Speaker 1: Our email is hello at savorpod dot com, but we 458 00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:25,840 Speaker 1: are also on social media. 459 00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:28,760 Speaker 2: You can find us on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram at 460 00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:30,640 Speaker 2: saver pod, and we do hope to hear from you. 461 00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:33,760 Speaker 2: Savor is production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from my 462 00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:37,080 Speaker 2: Heart Radio, you can visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 463 00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:39,680 Speaker 2: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Thanks as 464 00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:42,440 Speaker 2: always to our super producers Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard. 465 00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:44,520 Speaker 2: Thanks to you for listening, and we hope that lots 466 00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:53,480 Speaker 2: more good things are coming your way.