Speaker 1: Well, crede trillions. I'm Joel Webber and I'm americall tunas Eric.
Speaker 1: We were actually kind of stumped on what we're gonna
Speaker 1: do on this episode, and then you pulled a proverbial
Speaker 1: rabbit out of the hat, and I think it's a
Speaker 1: great one. You want to tell us about your idea? Yeah,
Speaker 1: So the idea was something that I've been tweeting. I
Speaker 1: have certain recurring tweets, and one of the ones that
Speaker 1: I've been doing a lot lately is this tweet where
Speaker 1: I say, on today's edition of I can't believe how
Speaker 1: much an assets that E t F has now blah
Speaker 1: blah blah blah this heat, you know. And because what
Speaker 1: happens is in our team, we'll just drop tickers in
Speaker 1: and we'll look them up, and we'll be researching things
Speaker 1: and over and over and over. I'm like, that thing
Speaker 1: has two billion, that thing has four billion, that thing
Speaker 1: has five undred million. I just when I last time
Speaker 1: I checked on it, I was like, will probably just
Speaker 1: sort of live in this little corner here, you know,
Speaker 1: maybe it'll get like ten million a year. I just
Speaker 1: am surprised at how big some of these non vanguardian
Speaker 1: E t F s are getting ones that you just
Speaker 1: rode off a little bit and you're like, what's going
Speaker 1: on here? And then you're like, well, E t F
Speaker 1: are taking in so much cash. I mean, I guess
Speaker 1: it has to go somewhere. It's not all going to Vanguard.
Speaker 1: So I thought we would just look at some e
Speaker 1: t F that we were you know, we looked at one,
Speaker 1: you know, one day, and we're just blown away about
Speaker 1: how big they got and maybe we can talk about why.
Speaker 1: And I thought the significance of this also was like,
Speaker 1: here we are a year after really the pandemic started
Speaker 1: to take hold and markets bottomed out, and now a
Speaker 1: year later, we're, you know, back in the ball market.
Speaker 1: Everything's up, and it it bears uh exploration of a
Speaker 1: few things that might have some underbellies. So joining us
Speaker 1: on this episode not just Eric and Mean, we have
Speaker 1: Todd rosen Bluth, the head of E t F and
Speaker 1: mutual fund research at cf are, A Athanasios, Sara Fhagus
Speaker 1: who's an E t F analyst with Bloomberg Intelligence, and
Speaker 1: Clear Balantine who's an E t F reporter with Bloomberg News.
Speaker 1: They've all been regulars on the show before this time.
Speaker 1: On Trilliance. Dude, I can't believe how big this et
Speaker 1: F got. Todd, Claire Athanasios, welcome back to Trillions. Great
Speaker 1: to be with you. I had to be here. Yeah,
Speaker 1: thanks for having us. Hey, by the way, Joel, Yeah, Um,
Speaker 1: do you know what today is? It's funny we have
Speaker 1: Todd on the show. It's timely. I would say, you know,
Speaker 1: late March, what what's what's going on? This is this
Speaker 1: is the end of super Bet two. Okay, so this
Speaker 1: is the due date? So okay. A year ago when
Speaker 1: the Active non Transparent et F started to launch and
Speaker 1: there was all that hype building up, It's like, oh,
Speaker 1: here come these big fish to you, real price American
Speaker 1: Century Fidelity. Um. Todd and I started to have spats
Speaker 1: both on panels and on Twitter about how big they
Speaker 1: would get. So I said it over under at ten
Speaker 1: billion dollars in the first year for what we call
Speaker 1: answer active non transparents. He took the over so as
Speaker 1: the year went on it looks it looked pretty bad
Speaker 1: early and it stayed bad. They have about a billion
Speaker 1: so I had nine billion dollars to spare. The bet
Speaker 1: was due April one, and he owes me a steak dinner. Unfortunately,
Speaker 1: we would normally be physically there and we'd be going
Speaker 1: out to dinner that night, and then I would tweet
Speaker 1: pictures of the steak and him signing the bill and
Speaker 1: all that. It would be. We have to postpone that though,
Speaker 1: But at least you could do it. You could do
Speaker 1: it on Zoom m I like Todd, I want to
Speaker 1: hang out with them so we have a good time together.
Speaker 1: You could hang out. It could be a Zoom steak dinner.
Speaker 1: Now that's the pressing. Yeah, that's weird pressing. We've got
Speaker 1: to do this in person. So, yes, I lost the bet.
Speaker 1: Let's put the numbers right. It's about one point five
Speaker 1: billion dollars in total for these e t f s. Again,
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter, it's much less than ten billion dollars.
Speaker 1: But I lost this bet. Active non transparent ets have
Speaker 1: not delivered the assets we expected. They've been under the radar,
Speaker 1: and that's of course a good segment for this show
Speaker 1: because there's things that are under the radar that are
Speaker 1: actually gathering assets instead of these products. Okay, so Todd,
Speaker 1: let's start with you. What what What's one that's jumped
Speaker 1: out at you? So my pick on this and is
Speaker 1: a wisdom Tree product. It's Wisdom Trees Emerging Market X
Speaker 1: State Owned Enterprises et F. The ticker is x s
Speaker 1: o E. It's got four point seven billion dollars in assets,
Speaker 1: over three billion dollars of inflows in just the past year.
Speaker 1: It's actually the second largest of Wisdom Trees ETF. You
Speaker 1: know people probably in fact, I was on this show
Speaker 1: talking about currency head GTS, which is what wisdom Tree
Speaker 1: has been synonymous for for over a decade. It's now
Speaker 1: the second largest, this XO s o E product. And
Speaker 1: why because it's outperforming by having a governance slant on
Speaker 1: emerging markets. It's outperforming I E m G, the Eye
Speaker 1: shares cheap emerging market product, Vanguard's Emerging market product vw
Speaker 1: O by over three hundred basis points in the last
Speaker 1: three years. And performance works. You know, the investors are
Speaker 1: getting uh, a E s G oriented emerging market product
Speaker 1: from wisdom Tree uh And and it's working out. But
Speaker 1: I didn't realize how big it was. Four point seven
Speaker 1: billion dollars is much larger than I would have thought.
Speaker 1: Does that worry you No, I think it's a great sign.
Speaker 1: I think we we you know, we're seeing we can
Speaker 1: have a different debate about E S G and the
Speaker 1: viability of those products. But I think it's great that
Speaker 1: it's moved to emerging markets and with a single pillar
Speaker 1: the G in governance as opposed to something that's focused
Speaker 1: on environmental which has certainly got more of the attention
Speaker 1: as of late. You know what, I almost picked that
Speaker 1: one at once have been on my radar. I looked
Speaker 1: at a couple of months ago. I didn't realize it
Speaker 1: got so big because I think it's right behind de Grow, right,
Speaker 1: I think it was always liked grow and that one
Speaker 1: was the largest products. But it's funny we were thinking
Speaker 1: the same I looked at it. I didn't end up
Speaker 1: choosing that one, but it definitely caught my eye. That
Speaker 1: to me is a perfect example time that might be
Speaker 1: better than both of mine. That is a lot of money.
Speaker 1: And also it's interesting two things on that one. Um
Speaker 1: Wisdom Tree has done. I thought a good job of
Speaker 1: diversifying themselves out of that currency hedged craze that has
Speaker 1: come and gone, and this is a great product and
Speaker 1: it also fits with their idea of like hey, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna give you this thing. I'm gonna take this thing out,
Speaker 1: you know, like take the yen out of Japan for
Speaker 1: d x J. This is like taking the socialism out
Speaker 1: of the the emerging markets. And at the rap On
Speaker 1: e M has always been well, a lot of these
Speaker 1: h companies are stayed owned. They don't move that much.
Speaker 1: Um blah blah blah. We want more capitalism in there,
Speaker 1: and the E t F really I think does that well.
Speaker 1: So it's a not just performance, but the the the
Speaker 1: narrative and the solution it's providing is pretty solid too.
Speaker 1: So Joe, I need an independent ruling on this. It
Speaker 1: sounded like Eric says my pick is better than his picks,
Speaker 1: and so the bet evens out. We just are going
Speaker 1: to split the check when we have a steak. Is
Speaker 1: that right? Is that how you heard? I did not?
Speaker 1: I heard a fraction of that. Um. The other part
Speaker 1: I think was a little uh. It took a little
Speaker 1: liberty with your listening skills there. But good pick. Nice try, Claire.
Speaker 1: I want to bring you in what what's your first pick?
Speaker 1: So mine aren't in the billions like Todd's, but the
Speaker 1: one that caught my eye most recently, um is Buzz,
Speaker 1: which is the Van Neck vectors Social Sentiment ETF, and
Speaker 1: that's the one that made a lot of UM buzz
Speaker 1: earlier this month when Dave Portnoy backed it UM. Looking
Speaker 1: at our data, let me pull it up. They got
Speaker 1: two d and eighty million dollars on its first day UM,
Speaker 1: which is just pretty incredible UM for a day launched.
Speaker 1: Everything that I've been doing recently is comparing back to
Speaker 1: those UM non transparent funds, because it's been a you know,
Speaker 1: about one year since those launched UM. And I checked
Speaker 1: this morning and the largest one of those act of
Speaker 1: non transparent funds has two one million. That's the Fidelity
Speaker 1: blue Chip Growth e t F. And and these are
Speaker 1: huge names that you know, launched these strategies that we're
Speaker 1: supposed to be some of the biggest products this year,
Speaker 1: and yet you see this e t F backed by
Speaker 1: Dave Portnoy that gets more than than the best AUNT
Speaker 1: did in a whole year, or about as well UM
Speaker 1: in just a single day. Yeah, I'll jump in here
Speaker 1: on that. You're right. I said this would probably get
Speaker 1: three million from the Portnoy effect. It completely past that.
Speaker 1: And it's interesting. Buzz launched four or five years ago
Speaker 1: and it got no interest. So somebody asked me the day, well,
Speaker 1: what percentage of the assets do you think is because
Speaker 1: of port And I'm like, because we saw this before.
Speaker 1: The buzz on its own was only able to get
Speaker 1: a tiny fraction of that volume and assets literally like
Speaker 1: one percent of it, to be honest, um, And so
Speaker 1: it really I mean also having the fact that Portnoy
Speaker 1: is a day trader himself and on Twitter, it's so
Speaker 1: in line with his very being, and I think this
Speaker 1: is actually a a smart marketing move as opposed to
Speaker 1: hiring say some celebrity who doesn't have anything to do
Speaker 1: with investing. I think we'll see more of this, And
Speaker 1: what fascinates me is the fact that you know, if
Speaker 1: you look under the hood of this E t F,
Speaker 1: it's not like you know, game stop in a MC
Speaker 1: some of these like day Trader Darlin's um the top
Speaker 1: holding is Apple and then Boeing. I mean, it's it's
Speaker 1: you know, you wonder how much of this is people
Speaker 1: looking at what's in the E t F versus just
Speaker 1: seeing Portnoy in jumping in. Yeah, this has nothing to
Speaker 1: do with people looking at what's inside the t which
Speaker 1: which gives me as much frustration as the fact that
Speaker 1: you said, this has more money than the largest of
Speaker 1: these semi transparent ets. People are not looking inside it.
Speaker 1: But the good thing is they're owning higher quality blueshift
Speaker 1: companies that will survive as opposed to riding the wave
Speaker 1: of the latest meme praise, which I think is the
Speaker 1: concern in general and in an interesting aspect of I
Speaker 1: think this episode is like, how much of this is
Speaker 1: just this raw enthusiasm? Um we have new phenomenons of
Speaker 1: the port Noise and the Cathy Woods of the world
Speaker 1: who can really um personalize things, and and people are
Speaker 1: investing in blind faith without actually recognizing what's inside the
Speaker 1: the e t f um Athanasios. Can we get your
Speaker 1: first pick? Yeah, this one's going away from like p billennials.
Speaker 1: I feel like this is a boomer pick. But all right,
Speaker 1: so the ticker is t MFC. All right, Motley Full
Speaker 1: one dread et F. Do you remember that newsletter Motley Full.
Speaker 1: I feel like there's something like my parents would read,
Speaker 1: Like they get like a in the mail, like a
Speaker 1: newsletter with like pictures and colors on it. All right,
Speaker 1: so they want they have this really strong following, like
Speaker 1: a million followers that read this newsletter. And they picked
Speaker 1: stocks and they say like, yeah, did it in investing
Speaker 1: or income investing or whatnot. So they launched this et
Speaker 1: F two years ago. I mean, it's not in the billions,
Speaker 1: but it's got four hundred million, which I think is
Speaker 1: really impressive, um, because it just I don't know. I I
Speaker 1: just think there's a stigma that like Motley Fools, a
Speaker 1: little bit more old school, and you look at it
Speaker 1: right and at the surface, it's just like Apple Microsoft,
Speaker 1: You're like, I'm paying fifty basis points for this, but
Speaker 1: it actually has been crushing the SMP five hundred since
Speaker 1: it launched by like and then I thought, maybe, well
Speaker 1: it's just house money. They maybe they put their own
Speaker 1: money into it. But it's pretty steady flows coming in consistently. Um.
Speaker 1: I feel like this is a pretty solid This is
Speaker 1: a good boomer pick because I don't think anyone would
Speaker 1: have expected this product to be If I mentioned this ticker,
Speaker 1: you would have said fifty million tops just still probably
Speaker 1: an initial steed. I think four million is pretty impressive
Speaker 1: for this product. And where the flow is coming from.
Speaker 1: I think it has to be newsletter followers. People that
Speaker 1: are following this newsletter, they probably are still subscribed to
Speaker 1: it and like either have an unsubscribed and they're still
Speaker 1: getting it like that email. Um, but it's it's I
Speaker 1: feel like this would be like an I just picture
Speaker 1: like an older investor who still gets their newsletter like
Speaker 1: their dividend picks, and he said, yeah, I'll buy I'll
Speaker 1: buy the Motley full et F. Why not you have
Speaker 1: a newsletter that could be his new strategy to to
Speaker 1: to track the boomers. Yeah, Like, I don't even think
Speaker 1: these news I need to be honest, I don't even
Speaker 1: think these guys were still publishing. To be honest, I
Speaker 1: had to go digging really deep into the abyss to
Speaker 1: find this one. Actually was you were going through the tickers.
Speaker 1: I was going through my brain of going, I don't
Speaker 1: know what that one is, um, And then I think
Speaker 1: this baron is there's need t F. That's Tide two
Speaker 1: barons also like the barons before. Hold on, let me
Speaker 1: look it up. Let's see. Okay, what do you think
Speaker 1: that has Todd? Don't look. I can't because I'm on
Speaker 1: recording this with you, but I think it's it's certainly less.
Speaker 1: I would guess it has a hundred and fifty million.
Speaker 1: Look at you, man, hundred and thirty five million. Your
Speaker 1: your e t F Jedi forces are are working well, alright, Eric,
Speaker 1: round out our first round. What's your first pick? My
Speaker 1: first pick is i'veall, which is one of the ones
Speaker 1: I tweeted out. This is uh the IVALL quadratic interest
Speaker 1: rate Volatility and Inflation Hedge ETF. So let me read
Speaker 1: to you. This is the e t F dot com,
Speaker 1: which has these nice little zagats descriptions of e t s.
Speaker 1: Here's what it says. It attempts to protect against inflation
Speaker 1: into hedge yield curve shifts and interest rate volatility using
Speaker 1: tips and long options evalls. Over the counter options on
Speaker 1: the US interest rate swap curve are described dada dada.
Speaker 1: So I know from experience that complexity doesn't really sell
Speaker 1: an ETFs and so and I met Nancy Davis a
Speaker 1: couple of times, heard her pitch it. She's very smart,
Speaker 1: and I just thought, okay, this might appeal to a
Speaker 1: certain kind of maybe really high end advisor or institutions.
Speaker 1: And it's got two point five billion and it's only
Speaker 1: launched in May, is two years old. That is amazing
Speaker 1: to me. And it charges basis points that is really
Speaker 1: on the high set. That's probably top five most expensive
Speaker 1: for E t F s. So it's complex, expensive and indie.
Speaker 1: In a way, it reminds me of ARC, where I
Speaker 1: was like, there's just so much going against this, and
Speaker 1: so to have two point five billion, I would have
Speaker 1: estimated million would be a success for this in two years.
Speaker 1: So it blew it away. And big reason it blew
Speaker 1: it away is that if you look at the performance,
Speaker 1: it's really good. It's got a nice steady rise. And
Speaker 1: so over the past two years since it came out,
Speaker 1: I'll give you the performance, So it is up since
Speaker 1: it came out. Now you'd be like, well, that's not
Speaker 1: that much, right, you know, the SMPS up more. True,
Speaker 1: but this isn't really competing against the SMP. If you
Speaker 1: look at the aggregate bond E t F it's up nine.
Speaker 1: And here's what's amazing, i'vall if you want to talk
Speaker 1: about the SMP, is about a sixth of the volatility.
Speaker 1: In other words, that is a very low, low, low vault,
Speaker 1: and that is hot and that's I think why it's
Speaker 1: selling so well. Yeah, and I just to add to it,
Speaker 1: what it's doing is it's owning Schwab tips E t
Speaker 1: F as its beta and then adding on using options
Speaker 1: to be able to get extra income and be able
Speaker 1: to reduce the downside to it. So this is true
Speaker 1: active management in the e t F rapper by using
Speaker 1: a core product and then amplifying on top of it,
Speaker 1: as opposed to you know these content. Nothing wrong with
Speaker 1: ARC and the concentrated picks, but it's nothing like the
Speaker 1: SMP five fundred. It's not starting with the SMP five
Speaker 1: and then pulling things out or adding to it. This
Speaker 1: is actually you know doing that. And to credit of
Speaker 1: Nancy because she's not doesn't have a team of wholesalers
Speaker 1: that's doing this. This is a true independent provider. Well,
Speaker 1: it's interesting because she pivoted from her hedge fund to
Speaker 1: launch this, and we we also saw the first hedge
Speaker 1: fund to convert itself into an um an e t F.
Speaker 1: So it's interesting to sort of think about how that
Speaker 1: might impact things going forward. If more managers do this
Speaker 1: kind of thing, I will say, the idea of a
Speaker 1: fund that helps with inflation, I think we're going to
Speaker 1: see more of those, I think with the success of this,
Speaker 1: and also that inflation is the new like scary word
Speaker 1: out there, and so I think that's this is gonna
Speaker 1: spark some not not copycats on this strategy exactly, but
Speaker 1: e t s that are geared towards the inflation situation. Okay,
Speaker 1: let's dude round to Todd. I'm gonna start with you again.
Speaker 1: What's your second pick? Yeah, So I hesitate to offer
Speaker 1: an I shares product because I shares an under the
Speaker 1: radar probably doesn't seem like it makes sense. But i
Speaker 1: q l T, which is the I Shares edge ms
Speaker 1: c I International Quality Factor e t F has three
Speaker 1: billion dollars in it um. That's nowhere near as big
Speaker 1: as it is for the US version of of the factors.
Speaker 1: But I've always thought of international investing being primarily done
Speaker 1: with a blunt instrument of ms c I EFA or
Speaker 1: m s c I emerging market based products at A
Speaker 1: shares and Vanguard has and I didn't think anybody was
Speaker 1: really doing factor rotation or factor exposure, especially something that
Speaker 1: Eric I'm sure is going to make fun of me
Speaker 1: for picking another boring blue chip high quality e t
Speaker 1: F that's out there because it owns it owns Roshan
Speaker 1: nest Ley in totality an s A P. But you
Speaker 1: know what it's beating i EFA and v e A
Speaker 1: by more than three hundred basis points. So the quality
Speaker 1: tilt is actually adding value pun unintended for what it is.
Speaker 1: I just didn't realize anybody was doing this. This is
Speaker 1: a three billion dollar et F I should has many
Speaker 1: three billion dollar ets, but I didn't think international factor
Speaker 1: would have been among them. Listen, quality, large caps, that's
Speaker 1: it's on brand. I would expect nothing less. I'm happy
Speaker 1: you brought that, and I'd be honest, I am shocked
Speaker 1: it has that much. Usually anything international over the past
Speaker 1: couple of years hasn't done well because it's lagged. So
Speaker 1: the idea they can get that much into this is
Speaker 1: is really amazing. I will say it's thirty basis points.
Speaker 1: That's a nice advisory low fee for that strategy, and
Speaker 1: that has to help. I fell asleep halfway through that pick. No,
Speaker 1: it's a it's a silod pick, uh. I think, you know,
Speaker 1: because now there's a rotation more into international. I feel
Speaker 1: like so instead of people maybe just going straight for IFA,
Speaker 1: this is a solid pick, you know, and quality might
Speaker 1: work a little bit better. I think on on an
Speaker 1: international scale like that, pointing out performs has been good,
Speaker 1: So this is actually a really it's a really good pick. Okay, clear,
Speaker 1: let's give you the my quick what's what's your second pick?
Speaker 1: So also a bit of an underdog compared to the
Speaker 1: billions there, but I think this is one of the
Speaker 1: least boring e t F s UM. I've been looking
Speaker 1: at at UFO, which is the Procure Space et f UM,
Speaker 1: and it's still pretty tiny. But I think what's really
Speaker 1: notable about it is that since Cathy would announce that
Speaker 1: she's going to be launching a space fund, she announced
Speaker 1: that back in mid January UM, the fund could come
Speaker 1: out any day. Now UFO has more than tripled in assets,
Speaker 1: so it's still only at a hundred and thirty one million,
Speaker 1: but you know, it's been trading since April UM and
Speaker 1: then just in the past what two months, it's uh,
Speaker 1: it's it's tripled. So I think it's a interesting sign
Speaker 1: of what may be to come for this fund and
Speaker 1: for any other space funds. So this is interesting UFO.
Speaker 1: What a gift it got. And Andrew Chaining has been
Speaker 1: through a nasty situation with one of his old issuers,
Speaker 1: and it was I was happy for him to get
Speaker 1: this gift. Because UFO hadn't was kind of kind of
Speaker 1: hanging around in oblivion and then boom this filing from ARC,
Speaker 1: which just shows you the power of Kathy. I mean,
Speaker 1: she's almost like Buffett at this point where she buys
Speaker 1: the stock or talks says the stocks in an interview
Speaker 1: when it goes up, and it was just it's nice
Speaker 1: for Andrew. I think some of that money will stick,
Speaker 1: maybe a couple of leaves for hers, but she's actually
Speaker 1: helping the whole category. I think we're going to actually
Speaker 1: see this become a true investment category. I think spacets
Speaker 1: there's a there's a little bit out there um from
Speaker 1: an investment perspective, but I think people are going to
Speaker 1: then look to see is there another option. Is there
Speaker 1: a a slightly cheaper or a slightly more index based
Speaker 1: approach to it, or differentiation? And I think this will
Speaker 1: be a chance for UFO to have an opportunity to
Speaker 1: highlight what makes it different than the active management approach,
Speaker 1: whereas right now it's it's way under the radars. As
Speaker 1: you mentioned, Claire hath nasias Um, what other ETF has
Speaker 1: surprised I almost want to guess I'll tell you, Okay,
Speaker 1: let's'm gonna I'm gonna let you guess. Uh. I feel
Speaker 1: like it's I feel like it's a first trust product.
Speaker 1: Am I right? No? I mean you're good, you know,
Speaker 1: but I went I went a different a different route.
Speaker 1: Knew that you were going to guess, and it was like, Eric, okay, okay,
Speaker 1: one more try is it one? Is it something that's China? No? Okay,
Speaker 1: all right, thank you, go ahead over to Okay, pick
Speaker 1: I pick Bug the Global x Diverse Security TF Soccer. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so let me tell you why. When you think about it,
Speaker 1: you like, oh wow, Thematic pick yeah, like it's got
Speaker 1: eight hundred million. This is why I think it's actually
Speaker 1: pretty impressive because you mentioned Andrew Chain and he had
Speaker 1: hacked first, right, and I think like Hack is like
Speaker 1: the first like quintessential Thematic ETF that came out, and
Speaker 1: he had Cyber that came out. They together it was
Speaker 1: those have got like over five billion. So it's almost
Speaker 1: like now you can't get into the club. It's like
Speaker 1: another cyber security ETF Like no, thanks, like it's fine,
Speaker 1: but Bug is coming. It's it undercut both Hack and Cyber.
Speaker 1: It's been performing better than Hack and Cyber. It's more
Speaker 1: concentrated than Hack and cyber Um, and it's able to
Speaker 1: raise I think eight hundred million and take away some
Speaker 1: of the assets from from those guys. The reason where
Speaker 1: it's grown a little bit is because of all the
Speaker 1: legal issues around Hack, people were leaving that funds, they
Speaker 1: were going to cyber and they were dumping into things
Speaker 1: like Bug. But it only launched in late two thousand nineteen,
Speaker 1: so it's still pretty new. So and also I like
Speaker 1: Bug because I'm a big money black fan the movie
Speaker 1: and like Bug was like the character, So that's also
Speaker 1: probably have the reason why I picked that picker. This
Speaker 1: ETF was on my list. This was my alternating case. Uh,
Speaker 1: somebody else picked it because for everything that you said,
Speaker 1: But it actually has gathered almost all of the assets
Speaker 1: this year despite losing money this year. You don't usually
Speaker 1: see that. Obviously, it did very well in in two
Speaker 1: thousand and twenty, but third mover advantage doesn't usually work
Speaker 1: unless you know Global Acts is the is the leader
Speaker 1: in thematic ets for a reason. You know that they're
Speaker 1: showing their their true colors here. I don't know anybody
Speaker 1: who's ever feest up to saying that they're a big
Speaker 1: fan of men in black. Um, So that's that's especially
Speaker 1: like certain characters like like normally men and black gets
Speaker 1: reference with the memory thing um or when you see
Speaker 1: somebody who's in like an all black suit, but like
Speaker 1: you like went to a whole another place. I wish
Speaker 1: Eric and I debate on movies all the time. I
Speaker 1: liked the movie. I like the ray band, like the
Speaker 1: whole thing back. I had the CD the soundtrack, so
Speaker 1: I was really into that movie when I was younger.
Speaker 1: It's it's good. The first one is really I thought
Speaker 1: it was really good. I watched it with my Sunday. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's good. Alright. On that note, Eric, we're gonna give
Speaker 1: you the final words. What's your second pick? So I'll
Speaker 1: go with one that's again. I just tweeted about this,
Speaker 1: which is soxel s o x L. This is the
Speaker 1: direction three times semiconductors. If you had asked me how
Speaker 1: much does this thing have, I'd say, well, okay, it's
Speaker 1: a it's not a it's not a sector, it's an industry.
Speaker 1: Semis are pretty popular. I'd be like, probably it has
Speaker 1: four billion, and it just doesn't make any sense to me,
Speaker 1: especially because if you look at the flows this year.
Speaker 1: I mean, semiconductors are a fascinating space to me. They're
Speaker 1: almost like the oil of our tech world. I mean,
Speaker 1: you have to have semis right there. Just it's such
Speaker 1: an interesting space. But you get enough juice from the
Speaker 1: regular one, so a do you really need leverage? But
Speaker 1: I'm like, Okay, maybe there's some people who need leverage.
Speaker 1: But this year this has taken in more money than
Speaker 1: any of the regular ones like SMH socks or XSD
Speaker 1: two billion dollars and flows. It charges basis points. And
Speaker 1: here's the thing. It's not like it's gone on a tear.
Speaker 1: It's been somewhat of a volatile ride, which is actually
Speaker 1: bad for leverage. And I just wonder who these people are.
Speaker 1: And then if you look at the three X bear,
Speaker 1: it's got almost no assets. So I think a couple
Speaker 1: of things are going on here. I think generally traders
Speaker 1: are just really bullish on semis, and I think they
Speaker 1: use this as a proxy to play that kind of
Speaker 1: a balance. And I also think it's representative of the
Speaker 1: retail crowd because there's a bunch of leverage ETFs that
Speaker 1: are way bigger than I would ever imagine. T q
Speaker 1: q Q is another one, although it wasn't a surprise
Speaker 1: because I tracked this all the time, but that one
Speaker 1: now has ten point seven billion dollars. So I do
Speaker 1: think that some of the leverage ETFs are appealing to
Speaker 1: the retail trading crowd who likes fast. They don't want
Speaker 1: to wait around for SMH and a regular e t F.
Speaker 1: They want the return and three times faster. But anyway,
Speaker 1: I'm shocked, And this is why the leverage GTF issuers
Speaker 1: are in a good business. For the amount of assets
Speaker 1: they have. They make a lot of money because they
Speaker 1: all charge then any five BIPs and they have a
Speaker 1: kind of interesting almost like hardcore local fan base that
Speaker 1: continues to lose their products, and they don't have fee pressures,
Speaker 1: so it's just an interesting world to me. And anyway,
Speaker 1: I was just blown away. I would have thought this
Speaker 1: was the value. The volume would have been high and
Speaker 1: would have been among the higher e t F s
Speaker 1: given the trading crowd. But people are clearly holding onto
Speaker 1: this if it's got over four billion in assets, and
Speaker 1: and that both has high reward but also high risk.
Speaker 1: As you guys have talked about what these just power
Speaker 1: tools in prior shows. Yeah, like I we would equate
Speaker 1: them to a chainsaw. You know, they can do wonders,
Speaker 1: but you can also lose a hand if you don't
Speaker 1: know what you're doing. So I know, I don't. I
Speaker 1: wonder if people you're right When I look at the
Speaker 1: leverage ETFs, I want to see like thirty turn over
Speaker 1: a day, and this one's I don't know. Maybe, So
Speaker 1: you're right, there's probably be a a little more buying and
Speaker 1: holding than there should be. These things should be traded,
Speaker 1: not held. Eric, Can I just say that I'm shocked
Speaker 1: that you didn't pick Jets. I was positive that was
Speaker 1: going to come. So it's a good question. The reason
Speaker 1: that has more assets than I would have thought two
Speaker 1: years ago. But I was on that e t F
Speaker 1: like White on Rice, I tweeted about every day that
Speaker 1: these are ones where I just forget about them for
Speaker 1: a while and they come up for some reason and
Speaker 1: I'm like wow. It's almost like ever go to a
Speaker 1: friend's house and they have a kid or a dog
Speaker 1: and you're like, I cannot believe how big your kid
Speaker 1: is getting or your dog. It's like that, but Jets,
Speaker 1: I live with Jets. Jets is like in my household,
Speaker 1: so I don't notice how big it's getting. You see,
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying? Like Arc two, same deal, I
Speaker 1: live with it. I live I live with a kid
Speaker 1: and a dog that both do that, and I'm just like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, how much bigger to get? All right?
Speaker 1: On that note, Todd Claire at the Nasios, thanks so
Speaker 1: much for joining us on Trailings again. Thanks for having us, Yes,
Speaker 1: thanks for having us. Thanks for listening to Trillions until
Speaker 1: next time. You can find us on the Bloomberg Terminal,
Speaker 1: Bloomberg dot com, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and wherever else you
Speaker 1: like to listen. We'd love to hear from you. We're
Speaker 1: on Twitter, I'm at Joel Webber Show, He's at Eric
Speaker 1: fall Tunas. You can find Claire at CFB Underscore eighteen,
Speaker 1: Todd at Todd c f r A, and Athanacios at
Speaker 1: t Sarah Vegas. As always, good luck spelling that this
Speaker 1: episode of Trillions was produced by Magnus and Drison. Francesca
Speaker 1: Levy is the head of Bloomberg Podcast