1 00:00:02,920 --> 00:00:06,520 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your home for 2 00:00:06,600 --> 00:00:11,720 Speaker 1: deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host, 3 00:00:12,080 --> 00:00:19,600 Speaker 1: Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. I'm 4 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:23,040 Speaker 1: your host, Mark Kenyan, and this is episode three, and 5 00:00:23,120 --> 00:00:26,160 Speaker 1: today in the show, I'm joined by outdoor writer, TV host, 6 00:00:26,200 --> 00:00:29,960 Speaker 1: and white tail expert Greg Miller to discuss his aggressive 7 00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:44,400 Speaker 1: approach to hunting deer across the country. All Right, welcome 8 00:00:44,479 --> 00:00:46,800 Speaker 1: to the Wired Hunt podcast, brought to you by Onyx. 9 00:00:46,920 --> 00:00:50,159 Speaker 1: Today on the show, I'm joined by Greg Miller, and 10 00:00:50,200 --> 00:00:52,720 Speaker 1: Greg's a guy wanted to chat to for quite a 11 00:00:52,720 --> 00:00:55,200 Speaker 1: while now, so I'm excited this episode is happening. Gregg 12 00:00:55,360 --> 00:00:59,279 Speaker 1: is the author of multiple books tuttles, including Aggressive white 13 00:00:59,320 --> 00:01:02,720 Speaker 1: Tail Hunting, uh Bow Hunting, Forests in Deep Woods, and 14 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:05,080 Speaker 1: rub Line Secrets, and he's written for many of the 15 00:01:05,120 --> 00:01:09,039 Speaker 1: top hunting magazines, hosted several deer hunting TV shows, and 16 00:01:09,080 --> 00:01:11,200 Speaker 1: in short, he's just done a tremendous amount in the 17 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:13,480 Speaker 1: world of white tails and has been at it at 18 00:01:13,480 --> 00:01:17,040 Speaker 1: a very high level for a long time. He just 19 00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:20,000 Speaker 1: brings a tremendous amount of wisdom to the table, so 20 00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:22,800 Speaker 1: having him the show is a real pleasure. And in 21 00:01:22,800 --> 00:01:25,840 Speaker 1: this conversation, I wanted to drill down into a variety 22 00:01:25,840 --> 00:01:28,840 Speaker 1: of topics, such as what his form of aggressive white 23 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:31,919 Speaker 1: tail hunting looks like, how times and tactics have changed 24 00:01:31,920 --> 00:01:34,160 Speaker 1: since he first got into this whole white tail thing, 25 00:01:34,840 --> 00:01:37,960 Speaker 1: what his unique perspectives are on utilizing rub lines, which 26 00:01:37,959 --> 00:01:41,039 Speaker 1: he really focuses a lot, on um, why he used 27 00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:43,959 Speaker 1: deer decoys so much, which is pretty interesting, and and 28 00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:46,200 Speaker 1: a lot more so. That's what we've got in store 29 00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:49,440 Speaker 1: for you here shortly. It's good stuff. I enjoyed it. 30 00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:51,600 Speaker 1: I hope you do too. But before we get to that, 31 00:01:51,680 --> 00:01:53,360 Speaker 1: I did want to touch on a couple of quick 32 00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:56,120 Speaker 1: other things. First off, I just want to give a 33 00:01:56,160 --> 00:01:59,800 Speaker 1: big high five, uh, shake of the hand, pat on 34 00:01:59,840 --> 00:02:01,360 Speaker 1: the back to all of you who have been out 35 00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:04,120 Speaker 1: there picking up trash on your shed hunting trips. I've 36 00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:06,840 Speaker 1: been seeing tons of pictures with the times in Trash 37 00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:10,560 Speaker 1: hashtag over on Instagram, and I'm just, I'm just I'm 38 00:02:10,639 --> 00:02:12,359 Speaker 1: damn proud of how many of you are getting out 39 00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:15,160 Speaker 1: there and doing this stuff, cleaning up the woods. You're 40 00:02:15,200 --> 00:02:18,840 Speaker 1: setting a great example, and you're inspiring me and and 41 00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:21,119 Speaker 1: I'm sure a whole lot of others too, So kudos 42 00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:24,280 Speaker 1: to everyone who's out there participating in Times in Trash, 43 00:02:24,400 --> 00:02:27,440 Speaker 1: keep at it. I think it's pretty darn cool. Uh. 44 00:02:27,480 --> 00:02:30,800 Speaker 1: Speaking of thanks, one other thing I wanted to point 45 00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:32,880 Speaker 1: out and just make up make a point of doing, 46 00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:35,240 Speaker 1: is I wanted to thank all of you who have 47 00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:40,880 Speaker 1: purchased a copy of my recently published book, That Wild Country. Um. 48 00:02:40,960 --> 00:02:43,200 Speaker 1: As you've probably heard in some of the past episodes 49 00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:46,320 Speaker 1: of the podcast, this was the most daunting project I've 50 00:02:46,320 --> 00:02:49,239 Speaker 1: ever taken on, but the one that I'm pretty darn 51 00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:51,880 Speaker 1: sure is the one I'm most proud of and putting 52 00:02:51,880 --> 00:02:54,000 Speaker 1: that thing out into the world. Writing this book for 53 00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:55,840 Speaker 1: years behind the scenes and then putting it out to 54 00:02:55,880 --> 00:02:58,080 Speaker 1: you all. Honestly, it was a little scary. There were 55 00:02:58,120 --> 00:03:00,160 Speaker 1: so many questions around you. Is it any good? Will 56 00:03:00,200 --> 00:03:03,440 Speaker 1: people enjoy it? Will people buy it? And since the 57 00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:06,920 Speaker 1: initial launch you know these, the answer has been resounding yes. 58 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:09,360 Speaker 1: So many of you have shown your support by buying 59 00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:13,040 Speaker 1: the book or getting copies for friends and family, or 60 00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:16,360 Speaker 1: listening to the audiobook, or posting pictures on social media, 61 00:03:16,440 --> 00:03:18,760 Speaker 1: posting your views on Amazon. It's it's it's it's all 62 00:03:18,800 --> 00:03:21,920 Speaker 1: just been amazing and so appreciate. It, and I can't 63 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:24,840 Speaker 1: thank you all enough. Um. If you haven't yet picked 64 00:03:24,919 --> 00:03:27,120 Speaker 1: up a copy yet, no worries either. You do have 65 00:03:27,200 --> 00:03:30,160 Speaker 1: plenty of time still. You can grab paperback or hardcover 66 00:03:30,240 --> 00:03:33,720 Speaker 1: copies over Amazon or wherever you like teach your books. UM. 67 00:03:33,760 --> 00:03:36,200 Speaker 1: The audiobook is over on Audible. You can listen to 68 00:03:36,200 --> 00:03:40,200 Speaker 1: it on your phone or your computer, your iPad, whatever. Um. 69 00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:42,600 Speaker 1: And if you're in Michigan or anywhere in the Upper Midwest, 70 00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:44,800 Speaker 1: I am doing another book signing coming up here pretty 71 00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:49,560 Speaker 1: spoon uh in Lansing, Michigan on April sixteen at Schuler Books. 72 00:03:49,880 --> 00:03:52,560 Speaker 1: I'll be doing another event, so stay tuned for more 73 00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:56,560 Speaker 1: details on that. UM. And I guess for those if 74 00:03:56,600 --> 00:03:58,320 Speaker 1: there are some people out there are still on the fence, 75 00:03:58,400 --> 00:03:59,680 Speaker 1: or if you're just hearing about the book for the 76 00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:02,920 Speaker 1: first I'm I do have a couple of quick reviews 77 00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:05,600 Speaker 1: from Amazon. I thought i'd share just to give you 78 00:04:05,600 --> 00:04:08,840 Speaker 1: a little perspective from some readers. Uh So here on 79 00:04:08,840 --> 00:04:13,640 Speaker 1: gonna quote two of these reviews. Let me see here alright. Quote. 80 00:04:14,440 --> 00:04:17,640 Speaker 1: I am not a person that reads books often, if ever, 81 00:04:18,160 --> 00:04:20,720 Speaker 1: but I love this book. Mark Kenyon does an amazing 82 00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:23,400 Speaker 1: job painting the picture of his travels and of explaining 83 00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:26,039 Speaker 1: how and why our public lands came to be a 84 00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:30,160 Speaker 1: great piece of writing. End quote. And here's one other 85 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:33,240 Speaker 1: one that I liked, um quote. This book is a 86 00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:36,640 Speaker 1: great collection of stories and history about our nation's public lands, 87 00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:39,640 Speaker 1: many of which I've never seen firsthand. But I'll be 88 00:04:39,720 --> 00:04:41,560 Speaker 1: damned if he hasn't inspired me to get off my 89 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:43,520 Speaker 1: ass and make an effort to both explore what I 90 00:04:43,560 --> 00:04:45,839 Speaker 1: haven't and to take action to protect what we have. 91 00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:49,040 Speaker 1: This is a great read that instills hope for bipartisan 92 00:04:49,160 --> 00:04:52,280 Speaker 1: railing of defense for the beautiful lands we have highly 93 00:04:52,480 --> 00:04:56,280 Speaker 1: recommend end quote. So that's pretty cool to hear. If 94 00:04:56,279 --> 00:04:58,400 Speaker 1: if this book can inspire folks to get out there 95 00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:00,720 Speaker 1: and see these places and to try to stand up 96 00:05:00,760 --> 00:05:04,440 Speaker 1: for him, that is my dream come true. So love 97 00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:07,680 Speaker 1: love seeing that, And thank you to those who love 98 00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:10,599 Speaker 1: those reviews. Thanks to everybody else who's written a review. Uh, 99 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:12,920 Speaker 1: it's pretty incredible buying the book, spreading the good word. 100 00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:15,560 Speaker 1: It's it's so appreciated. So I just want to make 101 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:18,440 Speaker 1: a point to bring that up. With all that wrapped up, now, 102 00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:22,800 Speaker 1: let's shift from talking about reading over to listening, and 103 00:05:22,839 --> 00:05:26,800 Speaker 1: in particular, let's listen to Greg Miller discuss aggressive white 104 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:31,880 Speaker 1: tail hunting and a whole bunch more. All right with me? 105 00:05:31,960 --> 00:05:35,840 Speaker 1: Now on the line is Greg Miller. Welcome to the show. Greg. 106 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:39,039 Speaker 1: It's uh, it's it's exciting to be able to have 107 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:43,960 Speaker 1: this chat. I have followed your articles and you on 108 00:05:43,960 --> 00:05:46,680 Speaker 1: on your various television appearances for a whole lot of 109 00:05:46,760 --> 00:05:49,680 Speaker 1: years now. You've been a huge influence on a lot 110 00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:53,360 Speaker 1: of today's deer hunters, and so I want to first 111 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:56,160 Speaker 1: and foremost thank you for for sharing everything you've been 112 00:05:56,240 --> 00:06:00,800 Speaker 1: learning over the years. And and secondly, for anyone who's 113 00:06:00,839 --> 00:06:04,200 Speaker 1: listening who has lived under a log and is not 114 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:06,960 Speaker 1: aware of the things you've been doing for decades? Now, 115 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:09,640 Speaker 1: can you give us just a real quick cliff notes 116 00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:15,040 Speaker 1: Craig Miller one on one. I h I started writing 117 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:18,359 Speaker 1: for North American white Tail magazine years ago. Um, I 118 00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:21,760 Speaker 1: guess it was probably six that they purchased my very 119 00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:24,520 Speaker 1: first article, and I was working construction at the time, 120 00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:28,839 Speaker 1: doing concrete work. I was a concrete finisher. And then yeah, 121 00:06:28,839 --> 00:06:31,159 Speaker 1: I started writing for them, and then a few other 122 00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:33,400 Speaker 1: magazines took interest in my work and saw what I 123 00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:36,800 Speaker 1: was doing. So long story short, within six years, I 124 00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:40,359 Speaker 1: don't come up up the construction work and uh and 125 00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:43,040 Speaker 1: went to a work full time as a freelanceoor writer, 126 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:46,560 Speaker 1: and I was doing seminars. Eventually transition and started doing 127 00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:50,839 Speaker 1: videos for like Hunter Specialties, Prime Time Bucks, Real Trees, 128 00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:54,240 Speaker 1: Monster Bucks. And then when the television craze kind of 129 00:06:54,240 --> 00:06:57,799 Speaker 1: took off in nearly two thousand's, uh, myself scan Pots 130 00:06:57,800 --> 00:07:02,280 Speaker 1: and pat Reeve started More American white tail television. UM 131 00:07:02,520 --> 00:07:05,560 Speaker 1: did that for four years and then started my own show. Uh. 132 00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:08,760 Speaker 1: First one was in Pursu and then we transitioned into 133 00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:11,160 Speaker 1: the Hunt. And now I find myself at a point 134 00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:14,760 Speaker 1: where I've read a lot of miles, I've hunted a 135 00:07:14,760 --> 00:07:18,640 Speaker 1: lot of states. I think two for deer. I've killed 136 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:22,080 Speaker 1: deer in seventeen different states. I founded three Canadian provinces, 137 00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:25,920 Speaker 1: killed Big Books and two provinces. So I got a 138 00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:28,520 Speaker 1: little tired, so I pulled in my horns a little bit, 139 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:33,240 Speaker 1: started doing some magazine work again. And now am I'm 140 00:07:33,280 --> 00:07:36,080 Speaker 1: going to make guest appearances on North American white tail television, 141 00:07:36,200 --> 00:07:37,880 Speaker 1: you know, three or four or five times a year. 142 00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:40,280 Speaker 1: It's nice to be able to just have a little 143 00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:44,320 Speaker 1: bit more of a slower pace. I gotta believe wear 144 00:07:44,400 --> 00:07:49,840 Speaker 1: Zenia after so many years going NonStop doing a thousand things. Um, 145 00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:53,960 Speaker 1: something that you also did along the way, with all 146 00:07:53,960 --> 00:07:55,960 Speaker 1: the TV and the articles and everything, as he wrote 147 00:07:56,040 --> 00:08:00,680 Speaker 1: some books. And in one of your books, Till Aggressive 148 00:08:00,680 --> 00:08:04,400 Speaker 1: White Tail Hunting, the opening line was I'm pretty I'm 149 00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:06,280 Speaker 1: pretty sure this is the quote you said that there 150 00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:10,640 Speaker 1: are no absolutes or guarantees in the sport of deer hunting. 151 00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:13,240 Speaker 1: And I thought it was interesting to open a book 152 00:08:13,360 --> 00:08:16,720 Speaker 1: in that way, right out the gate saying, hey, nothing 153 00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:22,160 Speaker 1: is for sure, nothing's guaranteed, there's no black and white here. Um. 154 00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:25,280 Speaker 1: That struck me. Why did you choose to open your 155 00:08:25,320 --> 00:08:28,160 Speaker 1: book that way? Why is that an important thing to you? 156 00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:31,480 Speaker 1: I think it's it's and I don't think I know. 157 00:08:31,640 --> 00:08:35,520 Speaker 1: It's because of a lot of past experiences with with 158 00:08:35,760 --> 00:08:38,240 Speaker 1: mature deer in a lot of different places. And and 159 00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:41,320 Speaker 1: you can you can assume, and you can believe that 160 00:08:41,920 --> 00:08:45,400 Speaker 1: you have absolutely got a big deer figured out, and 161 00:08:46,040 --> 00:08:49,120 Speaker 1: about the time you do, he'll break your heart. Um, 162 00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:52,720 Speaker 1: we've all been down that road. And the other the 163 00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:55,640 Speaker 1: other reason I did that is because I wrote those 164 00:08:55,679 --> 00:08:58,000 Speaker 1: books at a time when when people were really. They 165 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:04,320 Speaker 1: still some people still are very us in short cuts guarantees. Um. 166 00:09:04,800 --> 00:09:06,920 Speaker 1: You know, something that they can use or they they 167 00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:10,240 Speaker 1: can employ into their hunting efforts that they figure is 168 00:09:10,600 --> 00:09:12,560 Speaker 1: just going to guarantee success and it's just not going 169 00:09:12,640 --> 00:09:16,520 Speaker 1: to happen. I mean, there's successes and guaranteed and anything 170 00:09:16,559 --> 00:09:19,480 Speaker 1: that I really know of, but um, deer hunting, it's 171 00:09:19,480 --> 00:09:23,640 Speaker 1: a it's a sure way to um, you know, become frustrated, 172 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:27,760 Speaker 1: is to expect to be successful. I mean we all do, 173 00:09:27,880 --> 00:09:30,720 Speaker 1: but I mean you've got to keep that part of 174 00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:32,600 Speaker 1: realism in the back of your mind all the time 175 00:09:32,640 --> 00:09:35,680 Speaker 1: that just because you think you're doing everything right doesn't 176 00:09:35,679 --> 00:09:39,200 Speaker 1: guarantee you're going to be successful. And the books, you know, 177 00:09:39,240 --> 00:09:42,200 Speaker 1: it was kind of partly the books to us. Reading 178 00:09:42,200 --> 00:09:48,040 Speaker 1: these books doesn't guarantee success. Didn't, didn't, won't guarantee success. Um. 179 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:50,439 Speaker 1: So it's just a primer, you know, it's it's it's 180 00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:55,000 Speaker 1: a perimeter for for maybe helping you. I always tell people, 181 00:09:55,120 --> 00:09:58,600 Speaker 1: if I write a uh fifteen or eighteen chapter book 182 00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:01,319 Speaker 1: and you learn one thing in there, out of all 183 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:04,400 Speaker 1: those fifty thousand words that I wrote for that book, 184 00:10:04,640 --> 00:10:07,480 Speaker 1: if you learned one thing, then I've done my job. 185 00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:11,080 Speaker 1: It definitely seems like it's still the case today that 186 00:10:11,240 --> 00:10:14,360 Speaker 1: a lot of people and I'm guilty of this in 187 00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:16,600 Speaker 1: a lot of cases too, So I'm calling myself out 188 00:10:16,640 --> 00:10:19,120 Speaker 1: here too. It's really easy to to read a lot 189 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:22,839 Speaker 1: of stuff, to to get a lot of information these days, especially, Um, 190 00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:25,760 Speaker 1: there's so much information out there, whether it's a podcast 191 00:10:25,880 --> 00:10:28,680 Speaker 1: or YouTube videos or TV show or magazine or book, 192 00:10:28,720 --> 00:10:32,120 Speaker 1: there's more information than ever before. It's so easy to 193 00:10:32,760 --> 00:10:35,440 Speaker 1: take all this information in, but I think it's a 194 00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:38,680 Speaker 1: lot harder to actually take something from that and put 195 00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:42,920 Speaker 1: it into action. Um, how have you gone about actually 196 00:10:43,480 --> 00:10:46,200 Speaker 1: learning something, whether it be from a resource you're reading 197 00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:48,640 Speaker 1: or watching, or from your own experience, and then actually 198 00:10:49,640 --> 00:10:51,520 Speaker 1: taking that learning and put into action? Like, can you 199 00:10:51,559 --> 00:10:54,200 Speaker 1: think of any like ways that you actually take action 200 00:10:54,280 --> 00:10:56,760 Speaker 1: on or learn from these things? Because it's I think 201 00:10:56,760 --> 00:10:58,520 Speaker 1: it's one of those things you just assume happens, but 202 00:10:58,559 --> 00:11:01,800 Speaker 1: it's easier said than done. Well, the first thing is 203 00:11:02,440 --> 00:11:05,040 Speaker 1: I learned long ago and because I wasn't a good 204 00:11:05,040 --> 00:11:07,679 Speaker 1: deer hunter. I wanted to be, but I wasn't. I 205 00:11:07,720 --> 00:11:10,800 Speaker 1: was getting busted. I wasn't seeing the type of deer 206 00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:13,280 Speaker 1: that I thought I should be seeing uh, with the 207 00:11:13,320 --> 00:11:15,880 Speaker 1: way I was hunting an individual deer, I thought, this deer, 208 00:11:15,920 --> 00:11:19,080 Speaker 1: I've got him peg And I really I had kind 209 00:11:19,120 --> 00:11:23,200 Speaker 1: of developed a little bit of an ego as to, man, 210 00:11:23,240 --> 00:11:26,920 Speaker 1: I know it all now. And the one thing I 211 00:11:26,920 --> 00:11:30,680 Speaker 1: would really reinforce with with people, regardless of how experience 212 00:11:30,760 --> 00:11:35,280 Speaker 1: they are is deer hunters is never assume you know 213 00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:40,720 Speaker 1: it all. And um but beyond that, then I started 214 00:11:40,920 --> 00:11:45,480 Speaker 1: digging into when I wasn't successful. I became obsessed with 215 00:11:45,559 --> 00:11:48,160 Speaker 1: trying to figure out why I wasn't and that was 216 00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:52,199 Speaker 1: a huge, huge key in my achieving a more consistent 217 00:11:52,280 --> 00:11:56,079 Speaker 1: success rate. Was Okay, this dear dumped me, he fooled me, 218 00:11:56,600 --> 00:12:00,280 Speaker 1: he outsmarted me. But how what did I do wrong? 219 00:12:00,360 --> 00:12:02,600 Speaker 1: Or what did that you do right? That kept me 220 00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:04,800 Speaker 1: from putting him on the wall. And I think that 221 00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:08,200 Speaker 1: was a huge thing for me and probably well I'd 222 00:12:08,200 --> 00:12:10,680 Speaker 1: say going into the early nineteen nineties and a long 223 00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:14,240 Speaker 1: time ago that, um, I just knew I had to 224 00:12:14,360 --> 00:12:17,520 Speaker 1: expand my my learning curve even more. I had to 225 00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:20,640 Speaker 1: I had to acquire even more knowledge, you know. And 226 00:12:20,679 --> 00:12:22,959 Speaker 1: that was kind of tough for me to accept because 227 00:12:23,240 --> 00:12:25,079 Speaker 1: I really did think I knew at all, and I 228 00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:27,600 Speaker 1: knew a lot, and I it's never ending, you know 229 00:12:27,679 --> 00:12:31,320 Speaker 1: that market, It's a never ending quest to become a 230 00:12:31,360 --> 00:12:34,720 Speaker 1: better hunter. And you've got to have that attitude that 231 00:12:34,840 --> 00:12:37,440 Speaker 1: you can always be better. Yeah, And that's I think 232 00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:40,040 Speaker 1: wise so many of us love it so much is 233 00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:43,880 Speaker 1: because it's never you've never reached the finish line. There's 234 00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:49,000 Speaker 1: always more to figure out. Well, amen, Amen, I mean 235 00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:52,040 Speaker 1: I love challenges. I was you know, I'm that type 236 00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:55,800 Speaker 1: of person that, um, I don't. I don't get upset 237 00:12:55,800 --> 00:12:58,960 Speaker 1: as much as I I lick my chops and go, okay, 238 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:01,600 Speaker 1: you got me this time. Now I'm going to figure 239 00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:03,920 Speaker 1: out how you did it, and we'll see what happens 240 00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:06,880 Speaker 1: next time. You know, not lit your wounds, not feel 241 00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:09,880 Speaker 1: sorry for yourself, but keep your confidence level up and 242 00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:14,079 Speaker 1: just remember there's there's always the next time for you. 243 00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:17,080 Speaker 1: But when a deer screws up, there isn't another next 244 00:13:17,080 --> 00:13:19,320 Speaker 1: time for him. You gotta make all the right choices. 245 00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:24,319 Speaker 1: You You you talked about how so many of us 246 00:13:24,640 --> 00:13:26,199 Speaker 1: get to a point where we think we've got to 247 00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:29,080 Speaker 1: figure it out, and oftentimes deer hunting can be very 248 00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:32,240 Speaker 1: humbling when we're reminded frequently they don't have a figured out. 249 00:13:32,280 --> 00:13:35,120 Speaker 1: But I'm curious. You know, you've been doing this so long, 250 00:13:35,160 --> 00:13:38,200 Speaker 1: and you've been an authority for so long. UM, you've 251 00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:40,439 Speaker 1: put a lot out there. You've told a lot of people, Hey, 252 00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:41,959 Speaker 1: this is a way to do it, or here's what 253 00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:46,200 Speaker 1: I think about this or that. Um, over all those years, 254 00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:49,160 Speaker 1: now when you look back, are there anything? Are there 255 00:13:49,160 --> 00:13:51,520 Speaker 1: anything that stand out as something that you've changed your 256 00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:53,760 Speaker 1: mind on? Like, Hey, you know what twenty years ago, 257 00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:55,560 Speaker 1: I said it was this way, but I guess what 258 00:13:55,760 --> 00:13:58,120 Speaker 1: I realized I was wrong. I think it might be 259 00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:03,319 Speaker 1: now this way. Anything like that, Well you know along 260 00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:07,800 Speaker 1: those lines, Um, I will tell you that, and I'm 261 00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:11,040 Speaker 1: sure you'll agree with me on this. Um, if you've 262 00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:13,040 Speaker 1: hunted in length of time at all, if you've got 263 00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:15,640 Speaker 1: fifteen twenty years under your belt and actually got a 264 00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:19,600 Speaker 1: lot more than that in the hunting world, UM, you 265 00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:24,680 Speaker 1: know that. You know we've really evolved as hunters. But 266 00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:27,120 Speaker 1: but look what this, what's happened with with white tails, 267 00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:31,960 Speaker 1: with mature white tailed box how they've evolved. So you know, 268 00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:38,560 Speaker 1: things change with us, with our equipment, with technology, with everything, 269 00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:45,360 Speaker 1: and we've accelerated our abilities to the point that you know, 270 00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:49,920 Speaker 1: ten fifteen years ago, I was really really in fear 271 00:14:50,080 --> 00:14:56,600 Speaker 1: of becoming a um calculated and so not. I don't 272 00:14:56,640 --> 00:15:00,000 Speaker 1: want to say automatic, but it was gonna becomes um 273 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:04,200 Speaker 1: substantially easier. And look what happened with the deer. The 274 00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:07,400 Speaker 1: sharper we got, the more educated we got, the more 275 00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:10,560 Speaker 1: technology we've we've involved into the sport, the keene of 276 00:15:10,560 --> 00:15:13,480 Speaker 1: the deer have become. I think that's much my honest opinion. 277 00:15:13,880 --> 00:15:17,119 Speaker 1: So I think they are a prey animal, were predators. 278 00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:20,360 Speaker 1: Prey animals have been here forever. They've never all been 279 00:15:20,360 --> 00:15:25,680 Speaker 1: wiped out. So I think there's always that part of 280 00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:29,080 Speaker 1: it that gear will have something over on us. And 281 00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:31,560 Speaker 1: I can't tell you what it might be, you know, 282 00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:34,120 Speaker 1: the next thing that gear used to evade hunters, or 283 00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:37,680 Speaker 1: how they're doing things, But it's what keeps us all 284 00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:42,240 Speaker 1: out there after them, because you know, people like us 285 00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:44,920 Speaker 1: love a challenge, and deer hunting is still a challenge, 286 00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:48,440 Speaker 1: regardless of how sophisticated has become. Does it does it 287 00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:51,160 Speaker 1: ever frustrate you how sophistated has become or do you 288 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:53,640 Speaker 1: do you do you like it? Or do you ever 289 00:15:53,680 --> 00:15:56,000 Speaker 1: feel nostalgic for the way it used to be. Well, 290 00:15:56,040 --> 00:15:57,920 Speaker 1: I'm gonna sound like a drumpy old guy here, but 291 00:15:57,960 --> 00:16:01,200 Speaker 1: of course I'm a little you know, I'm I'm a 292 00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:03,880 Speaker 1: little concerned with with a lot of what's happened because 293 00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:07,680 Speaker 1: I honestly believe, and people can challenge me on this, 294 00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:15,320 Speaker 1: but um, I still love killing big gear mature white tails. 295 00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:19,640 Speaker 1: I love figuring them out. But when we had to 296 00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:22,880 Speaker 1: work five or six or eight or ten times harder 297 00:16:23,560 --> 00:16:27,040 Speaker 1: at doing that than we do now, then you know, 298 00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:29,920 Speaker 1: you have to remember a lot of my formative years 299 00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:32,840 Speaker 1: when I became you know, when I acquired a name 300 00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:37,560 Speaker 1: and uh was established my credentials. There were no scouting cameras. 301 00:16:37,640 --> 00:16:41,960 Speaker 1: There were you know, we had total maps and aerial 302 00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:45,200 Speaker 1: crop photos that we used. That was it. Otherwise it 303 00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:49,640 Speaker 1: was bootleadder and a lot of hours. So yeah, I 304 00:16:49,640 --> 00:16:52,000 Speaker 1: would readily admit I would I like to see it 305 00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:55,800 Speaker 1: back the way it was in some degrees. But Mark, 306 00:16:55,840 --> 00:16:58,360 Speaker 1: I'm telling you, I'm kind of ate up with the 307 00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:01,640 Speaker 1: scouting cameras, and I like the Onyx maps, and I 308 00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:04,359 Speaker 1: like certain things. I like my I like my luxuries too, 309 00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:06,760 Speaker 1: So I'm not I'm not going to be that grumpy 310 00:17:06,840 --> 00:17:10,560 Speaker 1: old guy. I guess there's a middle ground, right sort 311 00:17:10,560 --> 00:17:16,320 Speaker 1: of grumpy. UM. I wonder though, do you think do 312 00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:20,479 Speaker 1: you ever think that you might have um a special 313 00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:24,960 Speaker 1: advantage over some of the newer, younger hunters for someone 314 00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:28,680 Speaker 1: in your case who has that pre scouting camera, pre 315 00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:32,600 Speaker 1: on x pre technology background, but you also know how 316 00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:36,200 Speaker 1: and can use those new technologies um or maybe another 317 00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:38,480 Speaker 1: way to take this question would be, do you feel 318 00:17:38,520 --> 00:17:41,400 Speaker 1: like those who came later, those who are so dependent 319 00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:44,800 Speaker 1: now on trail cameras and our online maps and our 320 00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:47,320 Speaker 1: cell phone cameras and all that stuff, are we overly 321 00:17:47,359 --> 00:17:49,879 Speaker 1: dependent on that stuff and missing the boat on some 322 00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:53,720 Speaker 1: of those foundational things that you learned early on. Yeah, 323 00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:55,479 Speaker 1: I's back to the grumpy guy again. Yeah, I do, 324 00:17:55,640 --> 00:17:58,280 Speaker 1: I really do. I agree with you. I think that 325 00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:03,679 Speaker 1: they're There was a certain aspect of coming together with 326 00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:06,280 Speaker 1: my hunting partners and walking all day and I mean 327 00:18:06,359 --> 00:18:08,919 Speaker 1: all day from daylight to dark, with a with a 328 00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:11,520 Speaker 1: total map folded up in your pocket and to stop 329 00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:13,840 Speaker 1: and a compass in your pocket and no cell phones 330 00:18:13,880 --> 00:18:18,480 Speaker 1: and starting cameras. But where I've really seen those skills 331 00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:22,640 Speaker 1: that I acquired a long time ago and honed. Where 332 00:18:22,640 --> 00:18:25,560 Speaker 1: I really have seen that skill set shine is when 333 00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:27,400 Speaker 1: I started doing a lot of about the state hunts 334 00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:29,639 Speaker 1: where I might be at a spot for five to 335 00:18:29,720 --> 00:18:31,560 Speaker 1: six days and then it was time to move on 336 00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:32,960 Speaker 1: to the next spot or come home and then go 337 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:35,240 Speaker 1: out again, where you had five or six days on. 338 00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:36,960 Speaker 1: A lot of these were do it yourself hunts where 339 00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:39,280 Speaker 1: we got some property hunt we were showing the boundaries, 340 00:18:39,320 --> 00:18:40,960 Speaker 1: and then it was you guys are on your own. 341 00:18:41,119 --> 00:18:43,680 Speaker 1: You know, five or six days. You can have cameras, 342 00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:46,680 Speaker 1: you can, you can have the technology, but you better 343 00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:49,040 Speaker 1: have You better be on those deer right out of 344 00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:51,439 Speaker 1: the gate. You don't have two or three days to 345 00:18:51,560 --> 00:18:53,560 Speaker 1: wait to see what shows up on the cameras. You 346 00:18:53,560 --> 00:18:56,840 Speaker 1: know what I mean. It's five to six days, find 347 00:18:56,840 --> 00:19:00,720 Speaker 1: a big deer and kill them. And I really excelled 348 00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:03,720 Speaker 1: at that, and um, you know, it was all documented 349 00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:05,560 Speaker 1: on film and for the most part it was a 350 00:19:05,600 --> 00:19:09,720 Speaker 1: lot of self scouting and uh so those old skills 351 00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:13,520 Speaker 1: came back to uh to bless me um from years 352 00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:16,439 Speaker 1: ago when I really became a road warrior, you know, 353 00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:20,960 Speaker 1: during my the high ages of my filming career. Correct 354 00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:23,639 Speaker 1: me if I'm wrong here, but I'm guessing that a 355 00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:28,200 Speaker 1: lot of those early experiences helped you kind of form 356 00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:31,000 Speaker 1: this style of hunting that i've that I've seen you 357 00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:33,960 Speaker 1: referred to as as aggressive white tail hunting. You wrote 358 00:19:33,960 --> 00:19:37,239 Speaker 1: this book titled Aggressive white Tail Hunting, UM, and I've 359 00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:39,240 Speaker 1: talked a lot about these different tactics that kind of 360 00:19:39,280 --> 00:19:43,720 Speaker 1: fall underneath that UM type of white tail hunting that 361 00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:47,119 Speaker 1: you seem to have mastered. Can you can you define 362 00:19:48,119 --> 00:19:50,560 Speaker 1: that for me what you mean by aggressive white tail 363 00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:53,800 Speaker 1: hunting and why that this style is so important to 364 00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:55,679 Speaker 1: you and maybe it's not anymore. I don't know. That 365 00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:58,160 Speaker 1: was a long time ago that book came out, but UM, 366 00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:00,720 Speaker 1: what are your thoughts on that? No, that was that 367 00:20:00,760 --> 00:20:05,720 Speaker 1: was a good connect here, because, um, what that book 368 00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:08,440 Speaker 1: was about is kind of what I'm talking about now. 369 00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:12,120 Speaker 1: Is the stuff that I that I reflected back on 370 00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:15,240 Speaker 1: that would serve me well on my out of state 371 00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:18,840 Speaker 1: hunts now this day and age. There's a lot of 372 00:20:18,840 --> 00:20:22,200 Speaker 1: this stuff I talked about in Aggressive white Tail Hunting. 373 00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:25,720 Speaker 1: Where back then, as I said, I was a full 374 00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:30,440 Speaker 1: time well we were seasonal here, so we get six 375 00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:33,320 Speaker 1: months maybe seven months of construction work and we're laid 376 00:20:33,359 --> 00:20:35,080 Speaker 1: off for four or five months out of the year. 377 00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:39,280 Speaker 1: And that's back when nobody was doing scouting, nobody was 378 00:20:39,320 --> 00:20:42,320 Speaker 1: doing the season scouting. And we started doing that in 379 00:20:42,359 --> 00:20:45,840 Speaker 1: the middle late eighties and walking from like I said, 380 00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:50,000 Speaker 1: all day walks, learning our hunting areas where we should 381 00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:53,160 Speaker 1: be the next year. Um. But a lot of that 382 00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:56,800 Speaker 1: stuff that we learned back then is exactly why I've 383 00:20:56,800 --> 00:20:59,400 Speaker 1: been able to rack up such an impressive success rate 384 00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:02,720 Speaker 1: on autist eight hunts with a very limited amount of 385 00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:06,040 Speaker 1: time mark. So, yeah, there's some throwback stuff from from 386 00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:10,520 Speaker 1: that book, especially that I feel strongly is is still 387 00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:15,200 Speaker 1: applicable today for people. So so if someone then was saying, 388 00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:19,040 Speaker 1: how do I become an aggressive white tail hunter? Now, um, 389 00:21:19,119 --> 00:21:22,560 Speaker 1: would you would you be able to outline a few 390 00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:25,199 Speaker 1: key things, like, all right, if you focus on A, 391 00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:27,280 Speaker 1: B and C on which we can go really deep 392 00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:29,320 Speaker 1: into it want but if you learn to focus on 393 00:21:29,359 --> 00:21:32,080 Speaker 1: these three things or something like that, would there be 394 00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:36,720 Speaker 1: some way you could outline what this hunting style is 395 00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:41,440 Speaker 1: for someone? Well, the main thing I think that and 396 00:21:42,119 --> 00:21:44,520 Speaker 1: back then I was I was hunting the big woods 397 00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:48,359 Speaker 1: of northern Wisconsin, hundreds of thousands of acres of public land, 398 00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:52,480 Speaker 1: and but it was it was huge blocks of cover. 399 00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:57,119 Speaker 1: So we walked a lot, and the only way to 400 00:21:57,160 --> 00:21:59,560 Speaker 1: learn that country was to walk up. There weren't ava trails, 401 00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:01,800 Speaker 1: there weren't even a TVs. There aren't four wheelers back then. 402 00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:08,080 Speaker 1: It was just it was legwork and um but being aggressive. 403 00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:12,240 Speaker 1: The one thing that I've learned about about white tailed deer, 404 00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:15,280 Speaker 1: especially what I learned up in that big country in 405 00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:19,399 Speaker 1: northern Wisconsin and Minnesota, was there are hundreds of thousands 406 00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:21,560 Speaker 1: of acres out there that are available to the deer, 407 00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:28,200 Speaker 1: but mature white tails, especially if they're undisturbed, they use 408 00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:31,680 Speaker 1: relatively small chunks of cover. You know, they don't they 409 00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:33,960 Speaker 1: don't use all of what's out there. They have their 410 00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:39,280 Speaker 1: home ranges and they're they're pretty much homebody. It was 411 00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:42,959 Speaker 1: the biggest thing was we figured out that, you know, 412 00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:46,240 Speaker 1: it was a matter and this applies everywhere. It's a 413 00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:49,040 Speaker 1: matter just as much a matter of a limiting eliminating 414 00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:51,840 Speaker 1: bad country as it is finding good country. You know, 415 00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:56,560 Speaker 1: it's that can be reinforced enough so that the stuff 416 00:22:56,600 --> 00:22:59,240 Speaker 1: you learned in the offseason when you're doing this aggressive scouting, 417 00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:01,760 Speaker 1: and the good thing at that time of year, if 418 00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:04,480 Speaker 1: you can walk everywhere, anywhere, and you have to worry 419 00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:06,879 Speaker 1: about Man, I'm screwing this up from my future hunts. 420 00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:10,120 Speaker 1: Do you have months to forget about being bumped or 421 00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:13,080 Speaker 1: you know? But in the meantime you've learned a lot. 422 00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:16,240 Speaker 1: And that's the one thing in talking with deer hunters, 423 00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:18,000 Speaker 1: you know, I'm still doing some seminars that some of 424 00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:20,919 Speaker 1: these bigger deer shows and has kind of gone away. 425 00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:26,120 Speaker 1: Is especially in cases where there's more real estate than 426 00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:30,800 Speaker 1: just one square mile farming tracks or whatever. Is people 427 00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:34,879 Speaker 1: depending a little too much on technology i e. The 428 00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:39,400 Speaker 1: cameras or you know, those sorts of things and really 429 00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:42,159 Speaker 1: getting out there and how well do you really really 430 00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:44,840 Speaker 1: know your hunting area and be honest with yourself, do 431 00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:49,280 Speaker 1: you know every square inch? And postseason scouting, in my opinion, 432 00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:52,200 Speaker 1: late where early winter scouting is time to do all 433 00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:55,040 Speaker 1: that when the deer seasons are closed, the deer back 434 00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:57,719 Speaker 1: in their core areas doing what they're gonna do um 435 00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:01,240 Speaker 1: later on. So so we're right about in that time 436 00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:04,640 Speaker 1: frame right now as we're talking late February early March 437 00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:07,480 Speaker 1: when this comes out. How does someone do that? Because 438 00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:11,119 Speaker 1: we talked about scouting a lot and there's certainly like 439 00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:14,160 Speaker 1: a scouting one on one where someone probably thinks, Okay, 440 00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:15,800 Speaker 1: I'm just gonna walk out there and walk around and 441 00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:18,520 Speaker 1: walk the edge of the fields and then look for 442 00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:21,800 Speaker 1: some bigger rubs and they're gonna call it good. How 443 00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:25,359 Speaker 1: do you take the next not just the next step, 444 00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:29,680 Speaker 1: but the three more steps to to scout like a pro? 445 00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:33,960 Speaker 1: How do you scout like Greg Miller? What's what's going 446 00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:36,480 Speaker 1: on in your mind when you're out there? What are 447 00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:40,000 Speaker 1: you specifically doing that's different than your average smock on 448 00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:43,120 Speaker 1: the street. Well, this is going to sounds like kind 449 00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:45,680 Speaker 1: of a shameless plug. But the books not in printing more, 450 00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:47,760 Speaker 1: but just leads right into my third book. You talked 451 00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:51,480 Speaker 1: about aggressive and proving white tail tactics. But I've got 452 00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:53,800 Speaker 1: a third book, rub Line Secrets, which actually was my 453 00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:57,600 Speaker 1: best selling book of all and um that book was 454 00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:02,880 Speaker 1: written from from added that I collected information, I collected 455 00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:07,440 Speaker 1: evidence I collected during the offsea where they are making 456 00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:09,359 Speaker 1: these rubs. Now everybody knows what a rub line is, 457 00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:11,560 Speaker 1: you know, bucks rub along the routes say most prefer 458 00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:14,840 Speaker 1: to use when traveling between betting and feeding areas period. 459 00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:18,840 Speaker 1: They always have preferred routes those routes with most rubs 460 00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:21,479 Speaker 1: on them are usually the ones they use most often. 461 00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:24,520 Speaker 1: You can figure out at that time of year because 462 00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:26,439 Speaker 1: you go out in the spring, you start walking, like 463 00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:29,200 Speaker 1: you said, now until you know it starts to green up. 464 00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:32,439 Speaker 1: You can walk every square inch. The other thing is 465 00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:36,600 Speaker 1: people seem to assume they know where the big deer 466 00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:40,440 Speaker 1: that they're hunting are betting. And I did that for years, 467 00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:41,960 Speaker 1: and I found out it was a lot more to 468 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:44,520 Speaker 1: my advantage, way way more to my advantage to figure 469 00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:48,000 Speaker 1: out pretty much exactly where they were betting. And even 470 00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:51,240 Speaker 1: in the off season, when you're walking and you're looking 471 00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:53,480 Speaker 1: at your hunting areas and you're going light, really can't 472 00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:57,240 Speaker 1: see a big buck betting here or here. When you 473 00:25:57,280 --> 00:26:00,600 Speaker 1: find those spots and you go, this looks like it's 474 00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:03,119 Speaker 1: about a big bucket lay as probably isn't. You might 475 00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:05,000 Speaker 1: even bump the deer out of there that time of year, 476 00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:07,880 Speaker 1: but it's not going to harm anything. It's so far 477 00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:10,840 Speaker 1: ahead of the season. But I'll tell you a quick story, Mark, 478 00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:16,359 Speaker 1: I was asked to do an article for bow Hunter 479 00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:21,040 Speaker 1: magazine recently. In fact, it just came out, and it 480 00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:24,320 Speaker 1: was about spring scouting, and I talked about attract the 481 00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:26,080 Speaker 1: land I had here that I had least, and I 482 00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:28,800 Speaker 1: had it for three years, and you know me, I 483 00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:31,800 Speaker 1: mean I assumed I knew every square inch of that 484 00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:34,480 Speaker 1: property after that three years. And not only that, but 485 00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:36,959 Speaker 1: I knew exactly what the deer were doing, where they 486 00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:39,119 Speaker 1: were betting, where they were traveling, where they were feeding. 487 00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:41,560 Speaker 1: And I was in there the third year turkey hunting 488 00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:45,720 Speaker 1: in the spring and I found a big rub And 489 00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:47,560 Speaker 1: as I walk up on this big rub, I see 490 00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:49,720 Speaker 1: another one in the woods. And long story short, I 491 00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:52,240 Speaker 1: end up following this rub line from the bottom of 492 00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:54,440 Speaker 1: this steep wooded bluff all the way up to the top, 493 00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:57,879 Speaker 1: and up on top is a flat shelf. And I 494 00:26:57,920 --> 00:26:59,320 Speaker 1: can tell you right now, as soon as I get 495 00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:01,239 Speaker 1: up there, I went, this is a betting area. And 496 00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:02,760 Speaker 1: we had a couple of really good bucks on the 497 00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:05,200 Speaker 1: property at that time. There were a few boat downs 498 00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:06,919 Speaker 1: around the edge of this. In the middle it was 499 00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:09,879 Speaker 1: it was sign up open, and there were deer beds 500 00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:11,640 Speaker 1: and deer crap all over and there, and I thought, 501 00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:13,679 Speaker 1: they're betting in here, and now there's got to be 502 00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:16,000 Speaker 1: where a couple of these big bucks are betten in 503 00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:19,320 Speaker 1: law you know, you know, fast forward to September that 504 00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:22,960 Speaker 1: year and I killed a hundred point that did exactly 505 00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:24,520 Speaker 1: what I figured you would do when I figured that 506 00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:26,639 Speaker 1: out in the spring, and my son and I have 507 00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:28,360 Speaker 1: Jake was filmed, and when we went back in there 508 00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:30,960 Speaker 1: and the second day of archery season in September, I 509 00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:34,560 Speaker 1: killed him like second hunt of the year from what 510 00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:38,040 Speaker 1: I learned that spring. That's amazing when it works out 511 00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:41,560 Speaker 1: that way. Yeah, And it doesn't always work out that way. 512 00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:45,560 Speaker 1: It's that's the other thing. I mean, people look at 513 00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:50,480 Speaker 1: my my successes and and they think, wow, this is unbelievable. 514 00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:55,639 Speaker 1: They have no idea. Well some people do about the failures. 515 00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:59,440 Speaker 1: And you know, you and I could talk about that 516 00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:03,320 Speaker 1: probably all day about there's gonna be more heartaches than 517 00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:08,560 Speaker 1: there are pleasurable moments. That's just the nature of the beast. 518 00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:12,040 Speaker 1: That's the first thing that people, you know, especially when 519 00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:15,440 Speaker 1: they elevate their standards, they have to they have to 520 00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:19,200 Speaker 1: accept that you just ratcheted up a notch where you're 521 00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:21,000 Speaker 1: going to go after four or five and six year 522 00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:23,240 Speaker 1: old deer, hang on, because it's going to be a 523 00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:27,359 Speaker 1: heck of the ride. That is the truth. That's the truth. 524 00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:31,920 Speaker 1: So we're gonna be a lot more downtimes than up times. Nature. 525 00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:36,520 Speaker 1: You got to learn to love that, that process, that climb. 526 00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:39,680 Speaker 1: If you don't enjoy that, then you're in trouble. Yeah, 527 00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:43,600 Speaker 1: there's something to be said about getting frustrated, though I 528 00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:45,960 Speaker 1: mean that in a positive way because it just if 529 00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:48,960 Speaker 1: you're like me, like you, I'm assuming that just makes 530 00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:51,280 Speaker 1: you get your teeth and go, that's not going to 531 00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:54,680 Speaker 1: happen again, give me more, figure it out. Yes, yea. 532 00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:58,360 Speaker 1: So let's talk a little with those rub lines, um, 533 00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:03,200 Speaker 1: because it's funny. I feel like the the idea of 534 00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:06,160 Speaker 1: using rubs and really focusing on them has come in 535 00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:08,760 Speaker 1: and out of style within the hunting community over the 536 00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:12,120 Speaker 1: last two decades. There's been periods where it's been raved about, 537 00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:14,160 Speaker 1: and then people go back the other way and say, 538 00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:16,239 Speaker 1: I forget them focused on something else, and then they 539 00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:18,560 Speaker 1: come back in and then they kind of come in 540 00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:22,280 Speaker 1: and out. Um, right now, I if I foure to 541 00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:24,560 Speaker 1: put my finger on the pulse of the hunting community, 542 00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:27,840 Speaker 1: there's a whole lot more interest and trendiness around betting 543 00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:31,560 Speaker 1: areas than focusing on transitions and rub lines and stuff. 544 00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:33,760 Speaker 1: So let's let's zero in on the rub line thing, 545 00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:36,000 Speaker 1: because maybe that's an area that we're not getting enough 546 00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:39,800 Speaker 1: attention on for a lot of newer hunters. Um, when 547 00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:42,880 Speaker 1: we're out there spring scouting and we come across a 548 00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:46,800 Speaker 1: big rub, how do you is this is the simple 549 00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:49,280 Speaker 1: next step? Simply find the next one and walk to that, 550 00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:50,920 Speaker 1: and find the next one and walk to that. Or 551 00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:53,120 Speaker 1: what goes through your mind when you're starting, when you're 552 00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:57,240 Speaker 1: scouting and you're searching for rub lines? Um, what happens? 553 00:29:57,280 --> 00:29:58,840 Speaker 1: And what are you looking for? And how do you 554 00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:02,080 Speaker 1: go about effective least scouting rub lines in a way 555 00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:05,240 Speaker 1: that you could eventually use as a hunter. Yeah, that's 556 00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:09,360 Speaker 1: exactly what you're doing. Is is this a random rub? Um? 557 00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:11,920 Speaker 1: Is this a rub that was maybe made during the rut? 558 00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:15,240 Speaker 1: This buck was here one time, ground the crap out 559 00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:17,920 Speaker 1: of this tree, marked it up and never came back. 560 00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:20,320 Speaker 1: Or is it is it part of an actual line? 561 00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:23,840 Speaker 1: And that's really what you need to determine as um. 562 00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:27,720 Speaker 1: You know, usually a rub that's on a rub line 563 00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:33,400 Speaker 1: will also be alongside of pretty good trail and um, 564 00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:35,840 Speaker 1: and you know how bucks can be doing, especially mature bucks, 565 00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:40,000 Speaker 1: they're cross trailing, they're they're running while sometimes sometimes they're 566 00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:42,480 Speaker 1: on trails, sometimes they're just meandering through the woods, but 567 00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:44,840 Speaker 1: during non rough times, for the most part, they stick 568 00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:48,120 Speaker 1: to using trails. And you know, there's such a big 569 00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:50,880 Speaker 1: part of the archery season in almost every state in 570 00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:54,240 Speaker 1: the country that takes place during non rough times, which 571 00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:58,080 Speaker 1: means we're hunting. Here in Wisconsin, we're hunting September, October, 572 00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:02,240 Speaker 1: and and then just umber again post rut. Three months 573 00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:05,640 Speaker 1: out of four months, we're hunting deer that are not running. 574 00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:08,800 Speaker 1: And I don't know about you, but I'm not going 575 00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:11,720 Speaker 1: to pin my hopes just on a you know, ten 576 00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:15,200 Speaker 1: to fourteen day window, twenty one day window in November. 577 00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:17,680 Speaker 1: I want to be on the big deer right away. 578 00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:21,480 Speaker 1: But the scouting thing, yeah, it's it's walking to see 579 00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:23,360 Speaker 1: if this is a random rub, if it's part of 580 00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:26,080 Speaker 1: the line. Every buck rubs difference. Some of them are 581 00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:30,360 Speaker 1: rubbed crazy, other ones rubbed once in a while. You know, 582 00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:32,280 Speaker 1: those were tough ones to figure out back in the 583 00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:35,800 Speaker 1: old days. And getting back to something you said Mark 584 00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:38,800 Speaker 1: about the rub thing kind of comes and goes and 585 00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:41,479 Speaker 1: the importance of it. And I think that's in great 586 00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:44,959 Speaker 1: part due to scouting cameras because now they can just 587 00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:47,360 Speaker 1: find the rub and put up a camera and maybe 588 00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:50,000 Speaker 1: a scrape and they don't really have people don't have 589 00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:52,840 Speaker 1: to do much investigating, and that camera will probably tell 590 00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:55,160 Speaker 1: them if that's a spot they need to hunt or 591 00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:58,520 Speaker 1: if not. So they don't really think that the rubbed 592 00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:01,760 Speaker 1: really the rub. One rub they put the camera over, 593 00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:04,120 Speaker 1: but they don't really know their significance of rub line. 594 00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:06,800 Speaker 1: So I think it's kind of gone going out of style, 595 00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:11,800 Speaker 1: out of fashion simply because people don't consider it to 596 00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:14,520 Speaker 1: be that important because of what they can learn with 597 00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:18,120 Speaker 1: their scouting cameras. And that's it's actually true. It really is. 598 00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:21,800 Speaker 1: Do you feel like you're miss out or anything? Though? Um? 599 00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:24,520 Speaker 1: Is there is there some added benefit to taking it 600 00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:28,960 Speaker 1: that next step? Oh? Absolutely? You know. It goes back 601 00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:31,680 Speaker 1: to what I was talking about earlier about you know, 602 00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:37,720 Speaker 1: the use of scouting cameras especially is kind of um 603 00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:42,640 Speaker 1: made hunters a little less aggressive, a little less active. UM. 604 00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:45,160 Speaker 1: Just talking to the editor of North American White Tail 605 00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:48,800 Speaker 1: about this a few days ago about um, you know, 606 00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:51,320 Speaker 1: and if if four cameras don't show you what you 607 00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:54,000 Speaker 1: want to see, then put all four more. And we 608 00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:57,800 Speaker 1: talked about how harmful that's become two hunters. Chances when 609 00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:00,840 Speaker 1: especially early season one gear on top of their game, 610 00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:03,440 Speaker 1: or during the October low when big bucks are really 611 00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:08,960 Speaker 1: you know, reclusive and and and shy and and and suspicious. 612 00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:12,160 Speaker 1: The more times you're going and out, whether you're just scouting, 613 00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:16,160 Speaker 1: checking cameras or whatever you're doing, the more harm you're doing, 614 00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:20,400 Speaker 1: because the human sense is human sense. But so that's 615 00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:24,120 Speaker 1: why I think it's it's kind of in their best interests. 616 00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:26,560 Speaker 1: And you can do this during the off season at 617 00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:29,080 Speaker 1: least figure out some of the preferred routes that bucks 618 00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:31,880 Speaker 1: for using the year before, because they'll use them again, 619 00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:34,120 Speaker 1: and then the next generation of bucks will use them 620 00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:36,920 Speaker 1: and so on. And it's we've proven that a lot 621 00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:39,000 Speaker 1: of people have. You know, you get a good spot 622 00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:40,920 Speaker 1: of good spots, a good spot, you'll kill big deer 623 00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:45,360 Speaker 1: out of it, maybe fairly consistently, because it's just the 624 00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:47,760 Speaker 1: nature of big deer to want to gravitate to the 625 00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:50,360 Speaker 1: same spots that the deer before them did. It's just 626 00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:56,000 Speaker 1: there there for a reason. Yes, So what about this 627 00:33:56,400 --> 00:34:00,640 Speaker 1: alderdage that big rubs mean big buck? Have you found 628 00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:04,160 Speaker 1: that to be true or false? Very true? For the 629 00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:05,960 Speaker 1: most part if they're not if they're not big in 630 00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:09,040 Speaker 1: the Antler department, because I killed I've killed a bunch 631 00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:12,080 Speaker 1: of big woods deer that because of the lack of agriculture, 632 00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:15,759 Speaker 1: but because of the lack of very much nutrition. These 633 00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:18,920 Speaker 1: are deer that were two hundred pounds field dressed plus 634 00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:21,759 Speaker 1: up to two hundred and twenty some pounds, you know, 635 00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:23,520 Speaker 1: our four and five year old deer. And they were 636 00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:27,200 Speaker 1: one thirty maybe one. You know, they were just so 637 00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:30,520 Speaker 1: so in the antler department. But those deer about them 638 00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:33,880 Speaker 1: big trees, and they didn't have not all of that 639 00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:37,120 Speaker 1: giant raction. I killed some. I got a two typical 640 00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:40,680 Speaker 1: I killed hearing of stonsrom during late season years ago. 641 00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:44,439 Speaker 1: That that deer when he'd show up on our farm 642 00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:48,759 Speaker 1: and he wasn't there very often, he'd come and go um. 643 00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:52,200 Speaker 1: He'd rum on trees almost as big as you know, 644 00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:55,040 Speaker 1: I mean talking almost as big as he's my lower leg, 645 00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:58,120 Speaker 1: my calf, I mean up into my fire, giant pople 646 00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:00,759 Speaker 1: trees he'd rub on when where he came on that 647 00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:03,000 Speaker 1: he was just wearing. He grew up on those trees, 648 00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:06,560 Speaker 1: you're dear. We also with the advent of scouting cameras. 649 00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:09,680 Speaker 1: Now we've been able to document that little bucks will 650 00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:12,840 Speaker 1: rub on big trees, big bucks will rub on little trees. 651 00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:15,600 Speaker 1: But for the most part, if you find those big, 652 00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:19,279 Speaker 1: gagger sized rubs we all like to find, it's a 653 00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:21,680 Speaker 1: it's a pretty safe bet that that's a really good dear. 654 00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:24,920 Speaker 1: As you were as you're talking about those big rubs 655 00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:28,160 Speaker 1: that you're finding the big woods, it just brought a 656 00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:32,000 Speaker 1: question to mind for me, which is, do you find 657 00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:36,360 Speaker 1: there's certain habitat types where rub lines are more important. 658 00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:41,680 Speaker 1: I'm wondering if, for example, in pretty open country like Kansas, 659 00:35:41,719 --> 00:35:43,960 Speaker 1: maybe there's not a whole lot of cover, so your 660 00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:46,480 Speaker 1: travel corridors are pretty obvious they have they're going to 661 00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:49,000 Speaker 1: most likely want to follow these little fence rows and 662 00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:52,200 Speaker 1: things like that. While in a big wood situation where 663 00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:56,200 Speaker 1: it's all this homogeneous, big open timber, it's I've hunted 664 00:35:56,239 --> 00:35:58,040 Speaker 1: a lot of that stuff too up in northern Michigan, 665 00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:00,920 Speaker 1: and a lot of times I'm just at a loss 666 00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:03,240 Speaker 1: for trying to fare out how these deer are traveling 667 00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:05,279 Speaker 1: through an area. But is it in a snare like 668 00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:09,280 Speaker 1: that where rub lines are especially important, you you hunted 669 00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:11,680 Speaker 1: if you hunt it up there you hunted country that 670 00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:13,880 Speaker 1: was fairly similar to what I used to hunt in 671 00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:17,359 Speaker 1: northern Wisconsin. And yeah, there were some there were some 672 00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:23,280 Speaker 1: aspects of dear behavior or travel patterns that we had on. Um. 673 00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:26,279 Speaker 1: They love walking swamp edges where they're they're on the 674 00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:28,200 Speaker 1: there on the dry ground, there on the high ground, 675 00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:30,919 Speaker 1: but they're like one or two jumped away from those 676 00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:36,680 Speaker 1: those six thick camarat willow swamps um because big dear 677 00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:39,400 Speaker 1: like that sense of security. If they were threatened, they 678 00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:41,360 Speaker 1: got to one or two bounds and they're in the 679 00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:45,120 Speaker 1: thick stuff. Those were hot spots. We also found that 680 00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:50,080 Speaker 1: just riffed bottoms um sometimes along the sides of the hills. 681 00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:54,839 Speaker 1: Very seldom did those gear big gear especially did we 682 00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:57,319 Speaker 1: find where they were walking right down on the top 683 00:36:57,360 --> 00:36:59,319 Speaker 1: of the ridge. If they were, it was probably a 684 00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:02,719 Speaker 1: nocturnal travel route. They just seem to want to be 685 00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:07,920 Speaker 1: where they could be closer to thick cover. And um, 686 00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:09,880 Speaker 1: you know, the older the deer get, the more the 687 00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:12,799 Speaker 1: more secure they want to feel. So there are some 688 00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:17,640 Speaker 1: things to look for. We find, you know, two or 689 00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:19,520 Speaker 1: three year old slashes, you know, where they come in 690 00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:21,359 Speaker 1: and they log off an area and just clear cut 691 00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:23,320 Speaker 1: it and then it comes back in that thick regrowth 692 00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:26,560 Speaker 1: after about the fourth or fifth year. Words. You know, 693 00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:29,080 Speaker 1: it's like the hair and a dog, it's so thick. 694 00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:33,080 Speaker 1: But deer would walk the edges of those things too. 695 00:37:33,239 --> 00:37:35,279 Speaker 1: They want to be on a little more open side 696 00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:37,800 Speaker 1: where they can see and use their eyes for travel. 697 00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:40,040 Speaker 1: But there are only one bound away from being able 698 00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:42,360 Speaker 1: to jump back into that slash. And there was a 699 00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:45,400 Speaker 1: lot of logging going on up there well towards the 700 00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:47,919 Speaker 1: end of my big woods hunting career, but we learned 701 00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:50,680 Speaker 1: to use it to our advantage because the deer would 702 00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:52,160 Speaker 1: be in there to feed, and then it would eventually 703 00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:56,360 Speaker 1: get to a point where we're also service cover and food. 704 00:37:57,040 --> 00:37:59,960 Speaker 1: And they were hunting hotspots those slashes when they were 705 00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:03,280 Speaker 1: about four or five years old. And would you hunt 706 00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:06,040 Speaker 1: those kinds of spots right inside of them, or would 707 00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:08,799 Speaker 1: you hunt the downward edge during the rut and try 708 00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:11,080 Speaker 1: to catch bucks curves in that edge? Or what was 709 00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:13,960 Speaker 1: what was the right way typically to hunt in well, 710 00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:16,920 Speaker 1: you know, back then we were tree stand hunters. Occasionally 711 00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:19,200 Speaker 1: would build a ground blind, but there were no pop 712 00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:21,520 Speaker 1: up blind so we were doing just exactly what we 713 00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:25,879 Speaker 1: said we'd we'd hunt those those edges a lot, whether 714 00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:28,880 Speaker 1: it was a swamp edge or a slash edge. And uh, 715 00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:33,920 Speaker 1: I think guys the time drew near do fairly aggressive 716 00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:36,239 Speaker 1: amount of calling, you know, out into the slash or 717 00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:38,600 Speaker 1: swamp to try and get them just get out in 718 00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:40,160 Speaker 1: the you know, in the area where we could get 719 00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:42,160 Speaker 1: a shot at it. I'm talking mostly bow hunting now. 720 00:38:42,239 --> 00:38:44,279 Speaker 1: But we didn't employ some of that stuff for gun 721 00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:46,360 Speaker 1: season two because we can have gun gun again in 722 00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:49,480 Speaker 1: our tree tag here in Wisconsin. UM, so we're blessed 723 00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:51,120 Speaker 1: that way we can we can shoot two bucks a 724 00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:56,200 Speaker 1: year here. Um. Back on the back on the rub thing, 725 00:38:57,040 --> 00:39:01,560 Speaker 1: you you talked about how how these days a lot 726 00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:03,440 Speaker 1: of people will see a rub or scrape and just 727 00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:06,239 Speaker 1: throw a trail camera, um and never kind of take 728 00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:11,759 Speaker 1: it to that next step. Do you now have do 729 00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:13,520 Speaker 1: you have a way that you that you use trail 730 00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:16,000 Speaker 1: cameras in conjunction with rub lines, like, is there is 731 00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:19,280 Speaker 1: there a best way to do both? Um? I'm curious 732 00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:22,160 Speaker 1: just because I personally use a lot of trail cameras 733 00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:24,920 Speaker 1: on scrapes, but I do not often factor rub lines 734 00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:27,640 Speaker 1: into where I'm setting my trail cameras. Maybe that's a 735 00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:31,400 Speaker 1: missed opportunity. Um, do you have any thoughts on on 736 00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:36,000 Speaker 1: using that unless you have a clear I mean putting 737 00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:39,399 Speaker 1: them over scrapes is Listen, those are like the communications 738 00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:41,720 Speaker 1: centers for all the bucks within a given core area, 739 00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:44,920 Speaker 1: not just the buck. You know that, I mean you 740 00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:47,480 Speaker 1: might get You're gonna get pictures of numerous bucks work 741 00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:49,520 Speaker 1: in the same scrape. It's just the way it is. 742 00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:52,080 Speaker 1: But then you have to figure out now and you 743 00:39:52,120 --> 00:39:54,360 Speaker 1: don't get a picture of a book like you'd like 744 00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:57,360 Speaker 1: to get, So you have to start wondering, especially if 745 00:39:57,400 --> 00:39:59,520 Speaker 1: you know there's a big deer lyyrit Is this not 746 00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:03,120 Speaker 1: a thought he's comfortable visiting? Is there a reason he's 747 00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:07,279 Speaker 1: not coming to this scrape? But other than you know, 748 00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:11,200 Speaker 1: than a big track on a scrape, that's pretty much guesswork. 749 00:40:11,239 --> 00:40:13,360 Speaker 1: But when you when you're just scouting and take the 750 00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:16,040 Speaker 1: cameras out of the equation and you're just looking at sign, 751 00:40:16,719 --> 00:40:19,319 Speaker 1: I would rather trust unless there's a track in a 752 00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:21,759 Speaker 1: scrape that you take one look at it and go, 753 00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:24,359 Speaker 1: this is a giant deer. This is a giant deer. 754 00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:28,160 Speaker 1: I would rather trust to you know, scouting and sign 755 00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:31,399 Speaker 1: interpretation to big rubs than scrapes. That's not to say 756 00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:34,000 Speaker 1: I don't hunt over scrapes. I'm like you, I I 757 00:40:34,120 --> 00:40:39,400 Speaker 1: do both, but um, the rub thing gets it's curious 758 00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:43,920 Speaker 1: to note that. Um, you know, I still do it 759 00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:47,920 Speaker 1: a lot. I put him I kind of trash scouting cameras, 760 00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:50,279 Speaker 1: but I'm very dependent on him to be honest, like 761 00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:53,960 Speaker 1: like we all are. And I'll put him up and 762 00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:56,560 Speaker 1: I'll put up you know. I think one time here 763 00:40:56,600 --> 00:41:00,719 Speaker 1: I might have six to eight to ten out um. 764 00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:02,799 Speaker 1: And what I'm trying to figure out is what the 765 00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:04,880 Speaker 1: deer are doing at certain times. You know, rubs are 766 00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:11,200 Speaker 1: definitive there their value, bits of sign but you have 767 00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:13,719 Speaker 1: to figure out that, Like you said, is this part 768 00:41:13,719 --> 00:41:15,600 Speaker 1: of the line or is this just a random rubs? 769 00:41:16,320 --> 00:41:19,640 Speaker 1: It depends on the time of year. But um, I 770 00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:24,520 Speaker 1: think I'd rather based most of my hunting efforts around rubs, 771 00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:28,799 Speaker 1: big rubs than than than scrapes. Scrapes are a good 772 00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:31,960 Speaker 1: indicator of buck presence, um, don't get me wrong. And 773 00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:34,560 Speaker 1: that's a good place for people to start trying to 774 00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:37,360 Speaker 1: get a census of what's going on in their hunting areas. 775 00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:41,880 Speaker 1: Usually you'll start finding scrapes before you start finding quantities 776 00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:44,880 Speaker 1: of rubs. I think you'll agree with that, especially the 777 00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:46,959 Speaker 1: more bucks there are with within a given core area 778 00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:50,040 Speaker 1: and more the more competitive they are, the more competition 779 00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:52,239 Speaker 1: there is, there's going to be more bucks signed, even 780 00:41:52,239 --> 00:41:56,520 Speaker 1: in September, even especially in October. Now you talked about 781 00:41:56,560 --> 00:42:00,320 Speaker 1: how how scrapes are communication hubs. What about signpost rubs? 782 00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:03,040 Speaker 1: I've seen you write about signpost rubs. How do those 783 00:42:03,080 --> 00:42:06,799 Speaker 1: differ from just a regular random rub in? And when 784 00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:09,440 Speaker 1: you find one of these signpost rubs, you know, what 785 00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:11,960 Speaker 1: does that? How does that mean something different to you? 786 00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:15,440 Speaker 1: Or how do you act differently after finding that? Well, 787 00:42:16,080 --> 00:42:19,280 Speaker 1: you know, if you watch a big buck make a scrape, 788 00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:21,440 Speaker 1: and I've had the opportunity to, you know, to do 789 00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:24,560 Speaker 1: that many times. The first thing they do usually when 790 00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:28,040 Speaker 1: they walk up to especially a rub that's already opened, 791 00:42:28,760 --> 00:42:32,200 Speaker 1: as they'll smell it and then they'll usually lick it. 792 00:42:32,440 --> 00:42:34,439 Speaker 1: So now they've smelled it to see who's done there, 793 00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:37,759 Speaker 1: they market with their saliva. Then they start rubbing it. 794 00:42:37,840 --> 00:42:40,720 Speaker 1: And if you watch them as they're rubbing, they'll spend 795 00:42:40,719 --> 00:42:44,600 Speaker 1: almost as much time rubbing their forehead. Their pseudoefers land 796 00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:50,040 Speaker 1: on their in their forehead, um, not the sudo reefers land. Yeah. Um. Anyway, 797 00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:53,080 Speaker 1: they'll spend almost as much time on the rub as 798 00:42:53,080 --> 00:42:55,840 Speaker 1: they do their antlers, because that's the clear indication of 799 00:42:55,880 --> 00:42:58,120 Speaker 1: who they are. That's how they mark these things, you know, 800 00:42:58,280 --> 00:43:00,200 Speaker 1: so that when they walk away after it, on it. 801 00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:03,080 Speaker 1: And people will tell you years and years ago when 802 00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:06,040 Speaker 1: we first started we started doing the rub line thing, 803 00:43:06,640 --> 00:43:09,080 Speaker 1: we'd always find hair and these rubs in the bark 804 00:43:09,120 --> 00:43:11,360 Speaker 1: and bettered in the bark, and we were like, I 805 00:43:11,400 --> 00:43:14,200 Speaker 1: wonder what that's about. Well, eventually I got to know 806 00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:17,480 Speaker 1: Lordy Woodington from North American White Tale and James Croll, 807 00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:19,239 Speaker 1: of course Games is a very good friend of mine, 808 00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:23,680 Speaker 1: and they explained to me the whole process of that 809 00:43:23,880 --> 00:43:26,239 Speaker 1: and why there was there was hair. It was from 810 00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:28,720 Speaker 1: the deer's forehead, just from their head. But they grind 811 00:43:28,760 --> 00:43:34,439 Speaker 1: that bland into the bark to scent market. So there's 812 00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:36,200 Speaker 1: a lot more goes on with rubs than I think 813 00:43:36,440 --> 00:43:38,920 Speaker 1: even now with everything that's out there, all the information 814 00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:45,239 Speaker 1: that people understand, that's only one aspect of everything we're 815 00:43:45,239 --> 00:43:46,960 Speaker 1: talking about. Two. There's a lot more to this than 816 00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:51,239 Speaker 1: just rubs and rub lines. It's it's definitely fascinating though, 817 00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:55,160 Speaker 1: because it's one of those most visual things. You know, 818 00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:57,120 Speaker 1: when you go into the woods. There are a few 819 00:43:57,200 --> 00:44:01,200 Speaker 1: things that can get your adrenaline pumping more than coming 820 00:44:01,239 --> 00:44:04,960 Speaker 1: across a big fresh rub actually seeing a deer, other 821 00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:07,200 Speaker 1: than seeing a deer. That big fresh rub is about 822 00:44:07,239 --> 00:44:10,120 Speaker 1: as visual, visually stimulating as you can get out there. 823 00:44:11,080 --> 00:44:14,839 Speaker 1: And that's exactly what got me so interested in him. 824 00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:16,640 Speaker 1: You know, years and years a lot of the very 825 00:44:16,640 --> 00:44:19,000 Speaker 1: first article I wrote for North American White Tail, and 826 00:44:19,760 --> 00:44:24,799 Speaker 1: I wrote it and it appeared in seven issue was 827 00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:27,719 Speaker 1: on rubs, using rubs and rub lines for killing proof 828 00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:31,080 Speaker 1: your deer, And up to that point, I don't recall 829 00:44:31,160 --> 00:44:36,359 Speaker 1: ever seeing a strategy article that relied entirely on using 830 00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:38,920 Speaker 1: rubs and rub lines as a way to ambush Big Bucks. 831 00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:42,440 Speaker 1: I'm not just I'm just bringing that up because there 832 00:44:42,520 --> 00:44:44,839 Speaker 1: was a lot of stuff that was misunderstood about him. 833 00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:47,280 Speaker 1: I think prior to that that we had done personal 834 00:44:47,320 --> 00:44:53,120 Speaker 1: research about and had had the results to back it up. Um, 835 00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:55,800 Speaker 1: And so that's why I just goga. I've still gotga 836 00:44:55,800 --> 00:44:58,200 Speaker 1: about rubs. And there's there's nothing, like you said, walk 837 00:44:58,320 --> 00:45:00,680 Speaker 1: like walking through the woods and come up ahead and 838 00:45:00,719 --> 00:45:04,440 Speaker 1: seeing a big tree, just all scarfed up, that big 839 00:45:04,520 --> 00:45:08,279 Speaker 1: orange slash. Yeah, you can't wait to get there. You 840 00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:13,200 Speaker 1: almost find yourself running towards it. What about this? You know? 841 00:45:13,320 --> 00:45:17,200 Speaker 1: These days, I don't know, the last maybe ten years 842 00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:20,080 Speaker 1: or so, it's become quite popular to use and to 843 00:45:20,200 --> 00:45:24,200 Speaker 1: create mock scrapes. UM. A few people I've I've seen 844 00:45:24,239 --> 00:45:27,120 Speaker 1: a few folks here and there make mock rubs. Have 845 00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:30,719 Speaker 1: you ever done that, looked into that? Consider that as 846 00:45:30,800 --> 00:45:35,080 Speaker 1: something that could be a useful tool, absolutely, because they 847 00:45:35,200 --> 00:45:38,040 Speaker 1: relate to them almost as much visually they see those 848 00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:40,399 Speaker 1: things too. You know, do you have excellent vision other 849 00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:43,719 Speaker 1: than maybe not seeing you know, color scheme that we see. 850 00:45:43,760 --> 00:45:47,799 Speaker 1: But they have very keen eyes, and bucks are incositive 851 00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:50,440 Speaker 1: if they're if they're not pressured, if they're just being themselves, 852 00:45:51,239 --> 00:45:54,560 Speaker 1: and if I'm not mistaken, there's some isn't there some 853 00:45:55,480 --> 00:46:00,319 Speaker 1: scent companies that are making the forehead land? I think 854 00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:04,319 Speaker 1: I think so. Yeah, so it's feasible. I mean, I 855 00:46:04,320 --> 00:46:07,080 Speaker 1: think it's I think it's I mean, I love my 856 00:46:07,200 --> 00:46:10,480 Speaker 1: personally loved um making mock scrapes and doing that, and 857 00:46:10,520 --> 00:46:13,399 Speaker 1: I've made mock rubs and they're just something pretty cool 858 00:46:13,480 --> 00:46:17,799 Speaker 1: about doing something yourself and you say, this is where 859 00:46:17,800 --> 00:46:20,160 Speaker 1: I want to do big deer to appear. I want 860 00:46:20,160 --> 00:46:22,399 Speaker 1: a big deer. Just doing something like that and having 861 00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:24,280 Speaker 1: a big deer respond to it. I think it's cool. 862 00:46:24,520 --> 00:46:26,600 Speaker 1: It's kind of like Colling Kyle's, you know, where you 863 00:46:26,640 --> 00:46:29,560 Speaker 1: can fool them to the point where you can kill him. Yeah, 864 00:46:29,719 --> 00:46:34,160 Speaker 1: it's Colin and turkeys grunting and the buck pugle in elk. 865 00:46:34,239 --> 00:46:37,640 Speaker 1: Any way that you can proactively fool an animal into 866 00:46:38,160 --> 00:46:43,080 Speaker 1: falling your trap is is pretty satisfying. Yeah. Yeah, so 867 00:46:43,120 --> 00:46:46,799 Speaker 1: I do it every year. I I I've always beenked 868 00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:50,600 Speaker 1: around with it with the mock scrapes, and yeah, I 869 00:46:50,680 --> 00:46:52,759 Speaker 1: just get response. You know. It's just a matter of 870 00:46:52,800 --> 00:46:54,880 Speaker 1: what what animals are responding. And I've had some that, 871 00:46:55,719 --> 00:46:58,160 Speaker 1: you know, I've got scouting camera pictures. There's some incredible 872 00:46:58,160 --> 00:47:00,759 Speaker 1: bucks that I never ended up killing. But it's so 873 00:47:00,840 --> 00:47:03,839 Speaker 1: cool to look at those pictures and go, I made 874 00:47:03,880 --> 00:47:07,000 Speaker 1: that scrape and look what I got here. You know, So, 875 00:47:07,040 --> 00:47:09,440 Speaker 1: what's the scenario when you would do the mock rub 876 00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:13,440 Speaker 1: what like would you would it be similar to why 877 00:47:13,480 --> 00:47:15,200 Speaker 1: you make a mock scrape. You want to buck to 878 00:47:15,360 --> 00:47:17,200 Speaker 1: maybe stop there for an extra second so you can 879 00:47:17,239 --> 00:47:19,920 Speaker 1: get a shot, or to stop in front of trail camera. 880 00:47:20,360 --> 00:47:22,799 Speaker 1: Is that that kind of utility or do you use 881 00:47:22,840 --> 00:47:25,520 Speaker 1: them in a different way. The thing with the mocks 882 00:47:25,840 --> 00:47:29,960 Speaker 1: mocks scrapes is then after he works it, after a 883 00:47:30,040 --> 00:47:33,160 Speaker 1: buck finds your scrape, then he works it, and then 884 00:47:33,200 --> 00:47:35,799 Speaker 1: you rework it again and add a little more scent, 885 00:47:35,960 --> 00:47:38,920 Speaker 1: and then he comes back and you know he's figured 886 00:47:38,920 --> 00:47:41,239 Speaker 1: out I'm going to keep coming back here because I 887 00:47:41,239 --> 00:47:43,520 Speaker 1: want to meet this guy that's monkey in my scrape. 888 00:47:44,280 --> 00:47:48,120 Speaker 1: And same with rubs. I think you create them. It's 889 00:47:48,160 --> 00:47:49,880 Speaker 1: partly to try and get a deer to start rubbing 890 00:47:49,880 --> 00:47:52,359 Speaker 1: on it too. But the next time he comes through 891 00:47:52,400 --> 00:47:55,160 Speaker 1: that area, I can almost assure you he's going to 892 00:47:55,280 --> 00:47:58,279 Speaker 1: visit that rub again. They just have to. That's the 893 00:47:58,320 --> 00:48:00,879 Speaker 1: nature of the beast with them. They they're so big 894 00:48:00,920 --> 00:48:07,120 Speaker 1: on you know, sent based communications and visual communication communications 895 00:48:07,120 --> 00:48:09,640 Speaker 1: with like the rubs, and trying to find out who 896 00:48:09,680 --> 00:48:12,920 Speaker 1: else is in the area. Um, there's probably a lot 897 00:48:12,960 --> 00:48:15,319 Speaker 1: more of that goes on the natural confrontations where they're 898 00:48:15,320 --> 00:48:18,759 Speaker 1: just constantly smelling and finding out who's going where and 899 00:48:18,760 --> 00:48:23,080 Speaker 1: who's doing what. So UM, I've never actually shot one 900 00:48:23,080 --> 00:48:25,240 Speaker 1: off the mox scrape, but I'm sure had him respond 901 00:48:25,239 --> 00:48:27,680 Speaker 1: to them. Do you think that this is the kind 902 00:48:27,719 --> 00:48:33,640 Speaker 1: of the kind of idea that might help in let 903 00:48:33,680 --> 00:48:36,280 Speaker 1: me let me say it's different way. I've got a scenario, 904 00:48:36,800 --> 00:48:38,400 Speaker 1: and I think a lot of people probably have a 905 00:48:38,440 --> 00:48:41,320 Speaker 1: scenario somewhat like this where they hunt a small property 906 00:48:41,840 --> 00:48:44,800 Speaker 1: and for one reason or another, the deer are typically 907 00:48:44,800 --> 00:48:48,040 Speaker 1: on the neighbors and they only come over into their side. 908 00:48:48,320 --> 00:48:51,440 Speaker 1: You know, let's say one out of six times, and 909 00:48:51,560 --> 00:48:53,799 Speaker 1: you can't improve the habitat because you don't own it, 910 00:48:53,840 --> 00:48:55,920 Speaker 1: so you can't plant food plots, you can't make some 911 00:48:56,000 --> 00:48:58,839 Speaker 1: big change to the habitat, so you're stuck trying to 912 00:48:58,840 --> 00:49:00,520 Speaker 1: just hope that that buck is going to come across 913 00:49:00,520 --> 00:49:03,360 Speaker 1: your way. Would this be one of those things you 914 00:49:03,360 --> 00:49:06,239 Speaker 1: could do to proactively try to get him to come 915 00:49:06,280 --> 00:49:08,440 Speaker 1: to your side a little bit more by getting kind 916 00:49:08,440 --> 00:49:11,000 Speaker 1: of aggressive with creating mock scrapes and mock rubs on 917 00:49:11,040 --> 00:49:12,920 Speaker 1: your side. And of course you've got to be careful 918 00:49:12,920 --> 00:49:15,160 Speaker 1: to not overpressure it by doing that. But let's say 919 00:49:15,239 --> 00:49:18,200 Speaker 1: you can do it in a smart way and create 920 00:49:18,239 --> 00:49:21,879 Speaker 1: this false sense of competition that then encourages this dear 921 00:49:21,960 --> 00:49:23,879 Speaker 1: to come check out your neck of the woods more often? 922 00:49:23,960 --> 00:49:27,759 Speaker 1: Is that? Is that a reasonable way to use this? Yeah? 923 00:49:27,840 --> 00:49:30,440 Speaker 1: And it's and you've probably done it, and I've done it, 924 00:49:30,480 --> 00:49:33,680 Speaker 1: and I've had you know, so so successful it it's 925 00:49:34,280 --> 00:49:39,200 Speaker 1: excuse me, it's it's um. It's sometimes can be really 926 00:49:39,200 --> 00:49:43,200 Speaker 1: hard to lure a deer off adjoining property or off 927 00:49:43,200 --> 00:49:47,120 Speaker 1: property you don't have permission on onto your property. You know. 928 00:49:47,120 --> 00:49:49,760 Speaker 1: It kind of goes back to what I was saying 929 00:49:49,760 --> 00:49:52,680 Speaker 1: earlier in the podcast about do you know where they 930 00:49:52,719 --> 00:49:56,840 Speaker 1: want to be? They they're living because they really feel 931 00:49:56,880 --> 00:50:02,399 Speaker 1: comfortable there. Um. But I would say along those same lines, though, 932 00:50:02,719 --> 00:50:05,719 Speaker 1: if you can get him to come over and investigate 933 00:50:05,760 --> 00:50:09,160 Speaker 1: just one time, I have a I have a very 934 00:50:09,200 --> 00:50:12,200 Speaker 1: strong feeling that he's going to come over to investigate again, 935 00:50:12,520 --> 00:50:14,520 Speaker 1: whereas he may not have done it had you not 936 00:50:14,560 --> 00:50:16,759 Speaker 1: had that mock scrape there or that mock rub, you 937 00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:20,399 Speaker 1: know what I mean. It's it doesn't hurt anything As 938 00:50:20,400 --> 00:50:24,200 Speaker 1: far as the effectiveness of it, I haven't had great 939 00:50:24,480 --> 00:50:26,440 Speaker 1: You know, deer are where they are because they want 940 00:50:26,440 --> 00:50:29,520 Speaker 1: to be there, and other than rut, good luck trying 941 00:50:29,520 --> 00:50:32,160 Speaker 1: to get him to leave that safe environment where they 942 00:50:32,239 --> 00:50:35,080 Speaker 1: feel safe and you know, jump defense and come over 943 00:50:35,160 --> 00:50:39,840 Speaker 1: onto your environment. But it doesn't hurt the same focus 944 00:50:39,920 --> 00:50:43,640 Speaker 1: doesn't hurt anything. To do it, I want to I 945 00:50:43,680 --> 00:50:46,600 Speaker 1: want to rewind. Um, I want to go back to 946 00:50:46,640 --> 00:50:49,759 Speaker 1: something we started talking about earlier, kind of pivot off 947 00:50:49,800 --> 00:50:52,759 Speaker 1: of the rubs and back to this idea of the 948 00:50:52,760 --> 00:50:55,239 Speaker 1: aggressive white tail hunting, because I think that this, this 949 00:50:55,280 --> 00:50:58,560 Speaker 1: idea we just talked about might be considered something aggressive 950 00:50:59,040 --> 00:51:02,400 Speaker 1: because your proactively doing something to try to, you know, 951 00:51:02,640 --> 00:51:06,959 Speaker 1: change the future behavior of a dear. Um, you wrote 952 00:51:07,000 --> 00:51:10,640 Speaker 1: this book Aggressive Whitetail Hunting, and that was I don't know, 953 00:51:11,600 --> 00:51:16,440 Speaker 1: twenty years ago something like that. Um, it's more than that. Okay, 954 00:51:16,520 --> 00:51:20,440 Speaker 1: So do you think that since that point, as technology 955 00:51:20,480 --> 00:51:23,200 Speaker 1: has changed, as you've changed, as you've hunted more and 956 00:51:23,239 --> 00:51:27,360 Speaker 1: more and seen more and more situations, have you become 957 00:51:28,040 --> 00:51:31,759 Speaker 1: more aggressive or more conservative as a hunter? What's your 958 00:51:31,760 --> 00:51:35,520 Speaker 1: trajectory been. That's a real good question. It depends on 959 00:51:35,560 --> 00:51:38,280 Speaker 1: the situation, you know, as I was talking about earlier. 960 00:51:38,840 --> 00:51:41,080 Speaker 1: If I'm out of state and I've only got five 961 00:51:41,160 --> 00:51:43,640 Speaker 1: or six or maybe even seven days to get something done, 962 00:51:44,680 --> 00:51:48,840 Speaker 1: I'm gonna be the same old aggressive Greg Miller. But 963 00:51:49,760 --> 00:51:54,480 Speaker 1: I'm gonna do it. It's safely aggressive or are you know, 964 00:51:55,800 --> 00:51:59,200 Speaker 1: it's you've only got so much time. You can't be 965 00:51:59,280 --> 00:52:01,719 Speaker 1: doing stupid things like walking for any place you think 966 00:52:01,719 --> 00:52:04,200 Speaker 1: a big deer might be bettered. But you've always got 967 00:52:04,200 --> 00:52:06,719 Speaker 1: to be out there doing something, you know. We've got 968 00:52:06,800 --> 00:52:10,480 Speaker 1: two places we hunt early season, western South Dakota and 969 00:52:10,840 --> 00:52:14,080 Speaker 1: northwest North Dakota, and we do those hunts back to back. 970 00:52:14,280 --> 00:52:17,400 Speaker 1: Then we do our own thing beginning to end. We 971 00:52:17,520 --> 00:52:19,759 Speaker 1: got six days in South Dakota and we've got seven 972 00:52:19,840 --> 00:52:23,200 Speaker 1: days in North Dakota. And there's not much time where 973 00:52:23,239 --> 00:52:26,799 Speaker 1: we're sitting around, you know, shooting a breeze. We're out 974 00:52:26,800 --> 00:52:32,520 Speaker 1: and about doing something. Um. If it's just walking and exploring, um, 975 00:52:32,600 --> 00:52:36,560 Speaker 1: and while we're hunting glassing, you know, because the country 976 00:52:36,640 --> 00:52:39,520 Speaker 1: leads itself well to do that. But we're always doing something. 977 00:52:39,600 --> 00:52:41,520 Speaker 1: We'll take a short break for lunch maybe in the 978 00:52:41,520 --> 00:52:45,200 Speaker 1: middle of the day, you know, but mornings and evenings 979 00:52:45,200 --> 00:52:50,120 Speaker 1: and afternoons we're doing something. Um. If it's moving cameras, 980 00:52:50,200 --> 00:52:54,840 Speaker 1: checking cameras, it's uh uh scouting. You know what still 981 00:52:54,920 --> 00:52:57,359 Speaker 1: is there's a lot of lands seven dollars acre ranch 982 00:52:57,440 --> 00:52:59,960 Speaker 1: we hunting in North Dakota. We've hunted quite some time. 983 00:53:00,000 --> 00:53:02,279 Speaker 1: I'm I've still never been on every bit of it, 984 00:53:02,400 --> 00:53:06,040 Speaker 1: so there's always something to do. So yeah, I mean 985 00:53:07,360 --> 00:53:11,719 Speaker 1: around here, if I'm hunting here, um, I may not 986 00:53:11,840 --> 00:53:14,600 Speaker 1: be quite as aggressive, but that's because I've got these 987 00:53:14,640 --> 00:53:16,759 Speaker 1: dear kind of figured out mark, you know what I mean. 988 00:53:17,520 --> 00:53:19,440 Speaker 1: I know where I should be and when I should 989 00:53:19,440 --> 00:53:22,399 Speaker 1: be there, and I know where I shouldn't go. And 990 00:53:22,719 --> 00:53:24,680 Speaker 1: you know that might change during the season when deer 991 00:53:24,719 --> 00:53:27,680 Speaker 1: start doing different things though too, But I've got that 992 00:53:27,760 --> 00:53:30,960 Speaker 1: all figured out. But when I when I'm a road warrior, 993 00:53:31,719 --> 00:53:33,400 Speaker 1: I'm going to be a lot more aggressive than than 994 00:53:33,440 --> 00:53:36,520 Speaker 1: I than I am here quite honestly. Yeah, I feel 995 00:53:36,520 --> 00:53:42,000 Speaker 1: like that is one of the important steps as a 996 00:53:42,040 --> 00:53:44,439 Speaker 1: deer hunter you have to take. When you eventually get 997 00:53:44,440 --> 00:53:47,239 Speaker 1: to a point and it's you never get there completely. 998 00:53:47,239 --> 00:53:52,000 Speaker 1: I think it's a it's a hill you're constantly walking up, um. 999 00:53:52,080 --> 00:53:54,200 Speaker 1: But but trying to be at a place where you 1000 00:53:54,280 --> 00:53:56,719 Speaker 1: know the right times to be aggressive and the right 1001 00:53:56,760 --> 00:53:59,719 Speaker 1: times to not be um. It seems like that's a 1002 00:53:59,760 --> 00:54:01,600 Speaker 1: really a fine line you have to walk as a 1003 00:54:01,640 --> 00:54:03,920 Speaker 1: deer hunter, because when it's time to strike or when 1004 00:54:03,960 --> 00:54:06,120 Speaker 1: it's time to get aggressive. If you if you don't, 1005 00:54:06,160 --> 00:54:08,920 Speaker 1: you miss your opportunities. If you do at the wrong times, 1006 00:54:08,920 --> 00:54:11,239 Speaker 1: you blow it out, you screw it up. Um. It's 1007 00:54:11,239 --> 00:54:14,319 Speaker 1: a real tricky balance you have to walk for for 1008 00:54:14,360 --> 00:54:17,560 Speaker 1: someone who's relatively new, who doesn't have years and years 1009 00:54:17,640 --> 00:54:21,440 Speaker 1: of the mistakes and the lessons learned. Are there any 1010 00:54:22,760 --> 00:54:25,719 Speaker 1: kind of guidelines you can give us as to Hey, 1011 00:54:25,880 --> 00:54:28,759 Speaker 1: this kind of situation is go for it, This is 1012 00:54:28,840 --> 00:54:31,160 Speaker 1: go time, versus this is hang back and be a 1013 00:54:31,200 --> 00:54:33,920 Speaker 1: little more careful. Um. I know that's pretty broad, but 1014 00:54:33,960 --> 00:54:36,080 Speaker 1: are there a few examples you can provide, folks that 1015 00:54:36,160 --> 00:54:38,799 Speaker 1: might help illustrate that. Yeah, it is. It is a 1016 00:54:38,800 --> 00:54:42,200 Speaker 1: broad stroke. It's it's um during the early season night 1017 00:54:42,600 --> 00:54:47,200 Speaker 1: and and you know, like the October long and books 1018 00:54:47,680 --> 00:54:50,800 Speaker 1: they just go underground. But boy, they have they're sharp, 1019 00:54:51,239 --> 00:54:54,719 Speaker 1: they're not being distracted by hot doors or they're not 1020 00:54:54,800 --> 00:54:58,120 Speaker 1: rubbing much, they're not scraping much. I'd say better here 1021 00:54:58,200 --> 00:55:02,360 Speaker 1: on the safe side for the season. You know, because 1022 00:55:02,400 --> 00:55:05,000 Speaker 1: of the the foliage and everything in the woods are 1023 00:55:05,040 --> 00:55:07,440 Speaker 1: so much stickered. That's a tough one to call too, 1024 00:55:07,560 --> 00:55:10,879 Speaker 1: because you really but you might get away with more. 1025 00:55:10,920 --> 00:55:12,600 Speaker 1: You might be able to jump at that time of 1026 00:55:12,719 --> 00:55:16,719 Speaker 1: year where you'll hear him or you jumped him, you 1027 00:55:16,840 --> 00:55:20,279 Speaker 1: busted him, but he's not gonna leave the area. That's 1028 00:55:20,280 --> 00:55:23,440 Speaker 1: one thing good about early season. They're just such homers. 1029 00:55:23,480 --> 00:55:25,400 Speaker 1: Then it would take quite a bit, I think, to 1030 00:55:26,200 --> 00:55:30,239 Speaker 1: really push your out. But I think during the the 1031 00:55:30,320 --> 00:55:33,239 Speaker 1: late pre rut, in the rut, I think people should 1032 00:55:33,320 --> 00:55:35,960 Speaker 1: just be if your gut tells you to do something. 1033 00:55:36,040 --> 00:55:38,720 Speaker 1: I really trust my gun, and I think most good hunters, 1034 00:55:39,400 --> 00:55:42,160 Speaker 1: most people that spend quite a bit of time in 1035 00:55:42,160 --> 00:55:44,640 Speaker 1: the woods are more than average amount of time in 1036 00:55:44,640 --> 00:55:47,239 Speaker 1: the woods, have got that sixth cents where they know 1037 00:55:47,320 --> 00:55:49,640 Speaker 1: when they should be out there, They know when they 1038 00:55:49,640 --> 00:55:52,000 Speaker 1: should walk certain places, and they know when they should 1039 00:55:52,000 --> 00:55:55,160 Speaker 1: back out and just maybe leave things alone. I think 1040 00:55:55,200 --> 00:55:57,560 Speaker 1: it really does come down to that, if you feel 1041 00:55:57,600 --> 00:56:00,520 Speaker 1: like you're maybe pressuring an area too much, I will 1042 00:56:00,560 --> 00:56:03,799 Speaker 1: almost certainly guarantee you that you're pressuring that area too 1043 00:56:03,920 --> 00:56:07,279 Speaker 1: much if it becomes a suspicion in your mind right 1044 00:56:07,280 --> 00:56:11,120 Speaker 1: because we're probably always a little bit biased in our 1045 00:56:11,120 --> 00:56:13,000 Speaker 1: favor too, So if you get to the point where 1046 00:56:13,040 --> 00:56:15,000 Speaker 1: you're starting to think maybe you're doing it, you probably 1047 00:56:15,120 --> 00:56:18,280 Speaker 1: were over pressuring it a week a week earlier because 1048 00:56:18,320 --> 00:56:21,879 Speaker 1: you want to give yourself a break. That's very well put. 1049 00:56:22,160 --> 00:56:24,759 Speaker 1: That's that's very well could be the case. And I've 1050 00:56:24,760 --> 00:56:27,680 Speaker 1: written that almost word for word. If you feel like 1051 00:56:27,719 --> 00:56:31,080 Speaker 1: you're pressuring an area too much, you have been more 1052 00:56:31,120 --> 00:56:34,319 Speaker 1: than likely have been. Yeah, so so are you. I'm 1053 00:56:34,360 --> 00:56:37,839 Speaker 1: not sure if you are aware of this UM kind 1054 00:56:37,880 --> 00:56:41,880 Speaker 1: of trendy type of hunting or not right now, but 1055 00:56:41,920 --> 00:56:46,120 Speaker 1: there's a there's a growing collection of hunters who are 1056 00:56:46,160 --> 00:56:49,760 Speaker 1: really into getting very aggressive with their hunting in October, 1057 00:56:49,840 --> 00:56:53,960 Speaker 1: in particular around the October lull, by finding buck beds 1058 00:56:54,000 --> 00:56:56,319 Speaker 1: and buck betting areas and getting in really tight to 1059 00:56:56,400 --> 00:57:00,680 Speaker 1: them with pretty mobile hunting tactics. UM. So kind of 1060 00:57:00,680 --> 00:57:02,960 Speaker 1: doing the reverse of what you were talking about. There 1061 00:57:03,160 --> 00:57:07,279 Speaker 1: you are? You? Are you? What are your thoughts on that? UM? 1062 00:57:07,280 --> 00:57:09,960 Speaker 1: It's it's something that's pretty high risk, high reward. And 1063 00:57:10,000 --> 00:57:12,760 Speaker 1: I don't know if that's something you've considered or tried 1064 00:57:12,920 --> 00:57:14,800 Speaker 1: or done it and screwed up enough that now you 1065 00:57:14,840 --> 00:57:17,560 Speaker 1: don't do it? Um? Any thoughts on on that tactic? 1066 00:57:17,600 --> 00:57:20,840 Speaker 1: That idea? I H it's one of those been there, 1067 00:57:20,920 --> 00:57:24,240 Speaker 1: done that I actually have and I in a way, 1068 00:57:24,240 --> 00:57:27,680 Speaker 1: I feel kind of not bad about it, but it was. 1069 00:57:28,280 --> 00:57:32,040 Speaker 1: It was at a time when I was writing, just 1070 00:57:32,320 --> 00:57:34,680 Speaker 1: be careful, don't do this, don't do that. I had 1071 00:57:34,680 --> 00:57:37,200 Speaker 1: a big deer that I just like I could kill 1072 00:57:37,280 --> 00:57:39,160 Speaker 1: an early season, and I was so confident that I 1073 00:57:39,240 --> 00:57:43,000 Speaker 1: knew exactly where he was betting. This was in. This 1074 00:57:43,160 --> 00:57:46,400 Speaker 1: was in northern Wisconsin and the willerness, and I got 1075 00:57:46,440 --> 00:57:50,000 Speaker 1: in so tight on that beer that I actually heard 1076 00:57:50,080 --> 00:57:52,479 Speaker 1: him stand up and shake, you know when they stand 1077 00:57:52,560 --> 00:57:56,160 Speaker 1: up and they shake themselves, And I thought, what was 1078 00:57:56,200 --> 00:58:00,640 Speaker 1: that noise? And like three or four seconds later, I 1079 00:58:00,680 --> 00:58:03,560 Speaker 1: saw some movement and he's just standing that he was 1080 00:58:03,600 --> 00:58:05,439 Speaker 1: in some thick stuff. But I made out an eye 1081 00:58:05,440 --> 00:58:08,160 Speaker 1: and then an antler that actually heard that deer because 1082 00:58:08,160 --> 00:58:10,320 Speaker 1: he shook again then, and I like, that's what I heard. 1083 00:58:10,520 --> 00:58:15,560 Speaker 1: That's how close I I didn't kill him, but um 1084 00:58:15,760 --> 00:58:18,600 Speaker 1: only because he took the wrong runway, if you know 1085 00:58:18,600 --> 00:58:21,040 Speaker 1: what I mean. It was the right runway for him, 1086 00:58:21,120 --> 00:58:25,280 Speaker 1: the wrong runway for me. But so I think it's 1087 00:58:26,280 --> 00:58:29,520 Speaker 1: one thing about doing that that time of year. It's 1088 00:58:30,000 --> 00:58:33,400 Speaker 1: you know, some people might think it's a little controversial 1089 00:58:33,480 --> 00:58:35,560 Speaker 1: that you should never try and get in close to 1090 00:58:35,640 --> 00:58:38,200 Speaker 1: those deer tight on him, like like we were talking about. 1091 00:58:39,080 --> 00:58:41,640 Speaker 1: But other than doing that, I I don't know how 1092 00:58:41,640 --> 00:58:44,520 Speaker 1: you kill him, and it's probably worth it. And I 1093 00:58:45,200 --> 00:58:48,440 Speaker 1: that time of year, if you bust them out, I 1094 00:58:48,480 --> 00:58:50,640 Speaker 1: don't think they're going to leave the county, you know, 1095 00:58:50,720 --> 00:58:53,120 Speaker 1: I don't think they're gonna They're probably gonna run a 1096 00:58:53,120 --> 00:58:56,080 Speaker 1: little ways because it is so thick. You've got that 1097 00:58:56,160 --> 00:58:59,560 Speaker 1: going for you, and then just probably forget about it 1098 00:58:59,720 --> 00:59:01,320 Speaker 1: as long as you back out and get them time 1099 00:59:01,320 --> 00:59:03,600 Speaker 1: to forget about it, don't go right back in there. 1100 00:59:04,680 --> 00:59:06,920 Speaker 1: So so you're saying that it is something that if 1101 00:59:06,920 --> 00:59:09,840 Speaker 1: you're willing to swing for the fences that you think 1102 00:59:09,880 --> 00:59:11,760 Speaker 1: it's it's not a bad idea, if you're willing to 1103 00:59:11,760 --> 00:59:15,640 Speaker 1: take that risk. I don't, but I would, I would 1104 00:59:15,800 --> 00:59:17,640 Speaker 1: on the right on the heels of that, I would. 1105 00:59:17,680 --> 00:59:21,680 Speaker 1: I would say that people should have a real thorough 1106 00:59:21,760 --> 00:59:27,200 Speaker 1: understanding of their hunting area exactly how it lays um 1107 00:59:27,400 --> 00:59:29,720 Speaker 1: um the you know, people that are very familiar with 1108 00:59:30,120 --> 00:59:33,520 Speaker 1: their hunting areas probably stand a better chance because they 1109 00:59:33,560 --> 00:59:35,960 Speaker 1: know what their deer are doing at just about every 1110 00:59:35,960 --> 00:59:39,479 Speaker 1: time you know, during the year um, summer, spring, fall, winter. 1111 00:59:40,600 --> 00:59:43,320 Speaker 1: Those people have more of an advantage because I think 1112 00:59:43,360 --> 00:59:45,560 Speaker 1: pretty much, you know, they've hunted the same tract of 1113 00:59:45,640 --> 00:59:50,400 Speaker 1: property for however long, Um, they would stand a better 1114 00:59:50,480 --> 00:59:53,880 Speaker 1: chance of of killing a deer in that situation than 1115 00:59:53,920 --> 00:59:55,840 Speaker 1: people that are just kind of doing it by guesswork. 1116 00:59:56,120 --> 00:59:58,760 Speaker 1: And quite honestly, Mark, I think you'll agree, there's a 1117 00:59:58,760 --> 01:00:01,680 Speaker 1: lot more people that are are that knowledgeable about their 1118 01:00:01,720 --> 01:00:03,720 Speaker 1: hunting areas now in the West twenty or twenty five 1119 01:00:03,800 --> 01:00:06,640 Speaker 1: years ago. You know, it's become an obsession with him. 1120 01:00:06,680 --> 01:00:09,000 Speaker 1: It's a good obsession. Yeah, certainly are a lot of 1121 01:00:09,000 --> 01:00:12,760 Speaker 1: worse things. I like to tell my wife very very much. 1122 01:00:12,760 --> 01:00:17,320 Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, Um, really a really random little aside here, 1123 01:00:17,320 --> 01:00:20,680 Speaker 1: but it is related to hunting in October. Um. I 1124 01:00:20,720 --> 01:00:23,160 Speaker 1: read somewhere once. This might have been in a recent 1125 01:00:23,280 --> 01:00:27,840 Speaker 1: article that you have really keyed in on freshly fallen 1126 01:00:28,240 --> 01:00:31,080 Speaker 1: maple leaves? Can you talk about that? Is that something 1127 01:00:31,160 --> 01:00:33,040 Speaker 1: that we should be paying more attention to? Is is 1128 01:00:33,040 --> 01:00:36,200 Speaker 1: something to hunt around for small parts of the year. Well, 1129 01:00:36,480 --> 01:00:40,280 Speaker 1: I'm telling you it's it's I wrote that piece years ago. 1130 01:00:40,440 --> 01:00:43,400 Speaker 1: I think I rewrote it. Yeah, I rewrote I didn't 1131 01:00:43,400 --> 01:00:46,920 Speaker 1: rewrite it. I used that analogy against um for an 1132 01:00:47,000 --> 01:00:50,120 Speaker 1: article for North American white Tail this last year, and 1133 01:00:51,200 --> 01:00:53,160 Speaker 1: we have a lot of the area I used to 1134 01:00:53,200 --> 01:00:55,320 Speaker 1: hunt in northern the stocks and even around here in 1135 01:00:55,320 --> 01:00:57,120 Speaker 1: the farm all. We have a fair number of maple 1136 01:00:57,120 --> 01:00:59,680 Speaker 1: trees at a lot of maple actually, But it's one 1137 01:00:59,720 --> 01:01:03,400 Speaker 1: of those things when they're falling, you better be out 1138 01:01:03,440 --> 01:01:07,720 Speaker 1: there hunting and maples lose their leaves rather quickly, and 1139 01:01:07,760 --> 01:01:09,920 Speaker 1: the sugar content in those leaves is what drives with you. 1140 01:01:10,000 --> 01:01:11,600 Speaker 1: I talked to James Crawl about and he said they're 1141 01:01:11,640 --> 01:01:14,720 Speaker 1: high and sugar, so it's an energy source for him. 1142 01:01:14,760 --> 01:01:18,000 Speaker 1: You know, it's it's a delectrical food, but it's not 1143 01:01:18,240 --> 01:01:20,360 Speaker 1: a main food, as I wrote in that article. It's 1144 01:01:20,440 --> 01:01:22,560 Speaker 1: it's one of those what they call them ice cream foods, 1145 01:01:22,600 --> 01:01:25,280 Speaker 1: I guess they call it. But they where they're gonna 1146 01:01:25,280 --> 01:01:27,280 Speaker 1: eat them. Every time they passed through that area, they're 1147 01:01:27,280 --> 01:01:29,040 Speaker 1: going to go right to those trees that are dropping 1148 01:01:29,080 --> 01:01:32,720 Speaker 1: their leaves and they're gonna they're gonna garbage up on them. 1149 01:01:32,880 --> 01:01:34,760 Speaker 1: Do you think they'll go out of their way to 1150 01:01:34,880 --> 01:01:38,560 Speaker 1: hit it? Like, Oh, for sure, for sure. I've seen 1151 01:01:38,600 --> 01:01:42,960 Speaker 1: dear suddenly appearing for years when this was going on, 1152 01:01:43,040 --> 01:01:45,880 Speaker 1: and we find this hot sign in these certain areas. 1153 01:01:46,560 --> 01:01:49,680 Speaker 1: They say they as well. We didn't know at the 1154 01:01:49,720 --> 01:01:51,800 Speaker 1: time that hot sign was three or four days old 1155 01:01:51,800 --> 01:01:54,120 Speaker 1: and it was already over. They had been doing this 1156 01:01:54,160 --> 01:01:56,920 Speaker 1: probably for a week. By time we found it, it 1157 01:01:57,000 --> 01:01:59,160 Speaker 1: was over. But we hung stands. Not only didn't we 1158 01:01:59,160 --> 01:02:01,720 Speaker 1: see any big bucks, didn't see deer. They just come 1159 01:02:01,760 --> 01:02:04,400 Speaker 1: in there for tell those once they hit the ground, 1160 01:02:04,440 --> 01:02:07,320 Speaker 1: those leaves that lay there for a while lose the 1161 01:02:07,360 --> 01:02:10,120 Speaker 1: sugar content and then they're not delectable anymore. But boy, 1162 01:02:10,160 --> 01:02:14,560 Speaker 1: when they're as they're falling, literally as they're falling, I 1163 01:02:14,640 --> 01:02:17,120 Speaker 1: strongly urge people to check that out. If you've got 1164 01:02:17,720 --> 01:02:20,120 Speaker 1: known areas of maple stands in the in the woods 1165 01:02:20,120 --> 01:02:23,880 Speaker 1: you hunt. It's it's one thing that, like you said, 1166 01:02:23,760 --> 01:02:27,560 Speaker 1: you've never really heard it before, but it's it's a fact. Yeah. 1167 01:02:27,600 --> 01:02:30,640 Speaker 1: I like that idea of it seems whenever you can 1168 01:02:30,680 --> 01:02:34,640 Speaker 1: find a food source that is that's limited, that's there 1169 01:02:34,640 --> 01:02:38,480 Speaker 1: for a very short time period, you get this disproportionately 1170 01:02:38,560 --> 01:02:40,880 Speaker 1: high rate of deer use because they know it's there 1171 01:02:40,920 --> 01:02:43,080 Speaker 1: for just a little bit of time. It's it's like 1172 01:02:43,080 --> 01:02:45,360 Speaker 1: when the ice cream truck shows up, you know it's 1173 01:02:45,400 --> 01:02:47,040 Speaker 1: going to be there for thirty seconds, So every damn 1174 01:02:47,120 --> 01:02:48,840 Speaker 1: kid comes running in because they know that's the only 1175 01:02:48,880 --> 01:02:52,160 Speaker 1: chance to get it. That's a good analogy. I mean, 1176 01:02:52,200 --> 01:02:54,439 Speaker 1: it's it's kind of the same thing, you know. It's 1177 01:02:54,720 --> 01:02:57,840 Speaker 1: it's a timing factor. Tell me, those kids don't know 1178 01:02:57,880 --> 01:02:59,880 Speaker 1: when that ice cream truck is coming, and they know 1179 01:03:00,080 --> 01:03:02,600 Speaker 1: they got it time, just like the deer there in 1180 01:03:02,600 --> 01:03:05,080 Speaker 1: their element. They know exactly when those maple leaves are 1181 01:03:05,080 --> 01:03:06,880 Speaker 1: gonna fall. You know exactly when the eightcorns are gonna 1182 01:03:06,920 --> 01:03:10,120 Speaker 1: start dropping. So it's just the timing thing. And that's 1183 01:03:11,120 --> 01:03:14,520 Speaker 1: that's one of those things too that I learned on 1184 01:03:14,560 --> 01:03:18,000 Speaker 1: my own pretty much a long time ago about the 1185 01:03:18,000 --> 01:03:21,560 Speaker 1: maple leaves, and it was it was a bit accidental, 1186 01:03:21,600 --> 01:03:26,720 Speaker 1: but you know, I never forgot it. Yeah, yeah, those things. 1187 01:03:27,240 --> 01:03:31,439 Speaker 1: I think that's another thing that seems to separate your 1188 01:03:31,480 --> 01:03:33,760 Speaker 1: average deer hunter or hunter of any kind, but in 1189 01:03:33,800 --> 01:03:37,880 Speaker 1: this case deer hunter. Um separate them from from someone 1190 01:03:37,920 --> 01:03:41,200 Speaker 1: who's able to really really be successful is noticing those things. 1191 01:03:41,520 --> 01:03:44,360 Speaker 1: The fact that you noticed that you keep you asked yourself, 1192 01:03:44,440 --> 01:03:46,480 Speaker 1: why did something happen or why did I see these deer? 1193 01:03:46,600 --> 01:03:48,200 Speaker 1: What were they doing here that you noticed? That was 1194 01:03:48,240 --> 01:03:50,479 Speaker 1: what they're feeding on, and then you stored that away 1195 01:03:50,520 --> 01:03:52,880 Speaker 1: in your mind for the future. I don't think that's 1196 01:03:52,920 --> 01:03:55,920 Speaker 1: as common across a lot of people. I know that 1197 01:03:56,000 --> 01:03:59,840 Speaker 1: I've had almost proactively forced myself to be more pro 1198 01:04:00,240 --> 01:04:02,240 Speaker 1: I have to like remind myself all the time to 1199 01:04:02,360 --> 01:04:05,680 Speaker 1: pay attention to everything and then ask questions about everything, 1200 01:04:06,120 --> 01:04:08,200 Speaker 1: and then think back on it again to make sure 1201 01:04:08,240 --> 01:04:11,520 Speaker 1: I'm learning from that and taking action on it. Um. 1202 01:04:11,560 --> 01:04:14,200 Speaker 1: That seems to be like the process, at least that 1203 01:04:14,240 --> 01:04:16,360 Speaker 1: I figured out. That seems to be the process of 1204 01:04:16,400 --> 01:04:22,840 Speaker 1: getting better is really observing, thinking, and then acting. Um. 1205 01:04:23,560 --> 01:04:26,760 Speaker 1: Are there are there any other examples from your years 1206 01:04:26,760 --> 01:04:28,880 Speaker 1: of hunting that you can think of where you have 1207 01:04:28,960 --> 01:04:31,400 Speaker 1: like an aha moment in the woods where you have 1208 01:04:31,520 --> 01:04:34,000 Speaker 1: when of these observations or watch something happen and we're 1209 01:04:34,000 --> 01:04:37,960 Speaker 1: always like, oh wow, that that's why this happens, or 1210 01:04:38,080 --> 01:04:40,360 Speaker 1: oh wow, I need to change what I'm doing now 1211 01:04:40,400 --> 01:04:42,480 Speaker 1: because of this. Have there been any other kind of 1212 01:04:42,480 --> 01:04:45,640 Speaker 1: epiphanies like that for you over the years, Well, I 1213 01:04:45,640 --> 01:04:47,880 Speaker 1: mean there's been there's been stuff like that. To be 1214 01:04:47,960 --> 01:04:50,840 Speaker 1: specific about you know, it came from a lot of 1215 01:04:50,880 --> 01:04:55,000 Speaker 1: years and just finally paying attention to dear and when 1216 01:04:55,040 --> 01:04:58,200 Speaker 1: those and funds and small bucks will come by, not going, God, damn, 1217 01:04:58,280 --> 01:05:01,720 Speaker 1: where's the big gear. I'd watch spose deer. I wanted 1218 01:05:01,720 --> 01:05:04,120 Speaker 1: to know everything they were eating, why they were there, 1219 01:05:04,880 --> 01:05:07,800 Speaker 1: where they were going, how they were acting, which trails 1220 01:05:07,800 --> 01:05:09,840 Speaker 1: they were using, even though they weren't target animals. But 1221 01:05:10,160 --> 01:05:13,800 Speaker 1: back to the maple leaves real quick. I remember my 1222 01:05:13,880 --> 01:05:16,600 Speaker 1: brother Mike, my older Mike, when I hit on that 1223 01:05:16,640 --> 01:05:18,960 Speaker 1: pattern and killed a couple pretty good bucks doing it, 1224 01:05:19,080 --> 01:05:22,280 Speaker 1: He said, how do you ever figure that out? And 1225 01:05:22,760 --> 01:05:25,320 Speaker 1: it goes right to what I just said. I said, well, 1226 01:05:25,360 --> 01:05:27,320 Speaker 1: every time I'd see those deer come through there for 1227 01:05:27,360 --> 01:05:29,480 Speaker 1: the last few years, at the same time every year, 1228 01:05:30,480 --> 01:05:33,640 Speaker 1: they were always there, and then those maple leaves, And 1229 01:05:33,680 --> 01:05:36,640 Speaker 1: then I told him about you know, finding maple trees 1230 01:05:36,680 --> 01:05:38,000 Speaker 1: after that and setting up on him. And it was 1231 01:05:38,000 --> 01:05:39,640 Speaker 1: already too because there was a lot of bucks signing, 1232 01:05:39,640 --> 01:05:41,440 Speaker 1: a lot of deer signing around him, and it was 1233 01:05:41,480 --> 01:05:43,600 Speaker 1: already too late. They weren't eating him anymore. So I said, 1234 01:05:43,680 --> 01:05:47,040 Speaker 1: I figured out the best time to be there hunting 1235 01:05:47,040 --> 01:05:51,720 Speaker 1: those deer was when the leaves were dropping. Um, I'm 1236 01:05:51,760 --> 01:05:54,240 Speaker 1: sure there have been some instances where I've seen deer 1237 01:05:54,280 --> 01:05:57,240 Speaker 1: do something or you know, it's always been my goal 1238 01:05:57,320 --> 01:06:00,240 Speaker 1: once I once I decided that this is what I 1239 01:06:00,240 --> 01:06:03,280 Speaker 1: want to do. I want to be a very successful 1240 01:06:03,440 --> 01:06:05,560 Speaker 1: big buck hunter. Back in the day and age when 1241 01:06:05,600 --> 01:06:08,880 Speaker 1: it wasn't cool, you know, the North American Whitehall think 1242 01:06:08,960 --> 01:06:12,560 Speaker 1: was in its infancy, the magazine and so let's start 1243 01:06:12,640 --> 01:06:15,880 Speaker 1: drawing a little more attention to the sport. But um, 1244 01:06:16,240 --> 01:06:19,360 Speaker 1: there were things I learned along the way. Mushrooms I killed. 1245 01:06:19,400 --> 01:06:22,480 Speaker 1: I killed a really good buck in northern Wisconsin one 1246 01:06:22,560 --> 01:06:26,840 Speaker 1: year that you know, there's a certain ridge that I hunt. 1247 01:06:26,840 --> 01:06:28,960 Speaker 1: There's a lot of down logs, and the deer when 1248 01:06:29,000 --> 01:06:33,120 Speaker 1: they're eating the mushrooms off those locks. But the University 1249 01:06:33,160 --> 01:06:36,280 Speaker 1: of Wisconsin to put all this in perspective about different foods, 1250 01:06:36,320 --> 01:06:39,800 Speaker 1: and certainly not all these foods are preferred. But the 1251 01:06:39,920 --> 01:06:43,480 Speaker 1: University of Wisconsin did a study years ago on white 1252 01:06:43,480 --> 01:06:46,680 Speaker 1: tailed deer in our home state here, and they documented 1253 01:06:46,680 --> 01:06:50,120 Speaker 1: deer eating like close to three or three d and 1254 01:06:50,160 --> 01:06:54,520 Speaker 1: thirty different items while they were observing. Now, so now 1255 01:06:54,680 --> 01:06:57,200 Speaker 1: you put that in perspective of what we think we 1256 01:06:57,280 --> 01:07:02,560 Speaker 1: know about what deer like to eat. Yeah, corn, soybeans, 1257 01:07:02,600 --> 01:07:06,520 Speaker 1: you know, alf elfa, acorns, brows. We're still a long 1258 01:07:06,560 --> 01:07:11,800 Speaker 1: ways from three, you know. So there's some of those 1259 01:07:11,840 --> 01:07:14,840 Speaker 1: foods they may just pick and you know, at and 1260 01:07:15,040 --> 01:07:16,880 Speaker 1: they eat it, but they documented it. But it does 1261 01:07:16,960 --> 01:07:20,560 Speaker 1: put it in perspective that it goes far beyond what 1262 01:07:20,600 --> 01:07:24,240 Speaker 1: we consider to be the normal foods are primary foods 1263 01:07:24,240 --> 01:07:27,280 Speaker 1: for white tails, I think, and and so much of 1264 01:07:27,320 --> 01:07:30,200 Speaker 1: that is seasonal, like the maple. There's there's are other 1265 01:07:30,240 --> 01:07:34,920 Speaker 1: things that you know, like certain brows, certain leaves, But 1266 01:07:35,080 --> 01:07:38,000 Speaker 1: if you watch a deer walk through the woods, they're 1267 01:07:38,000 --> 01:07:41,040 Speaker 1: always nibbling on something, and I just pay attention to 1268 01:07:41,080 --> 01:07:45,840 Speaker 1: what they're nibbling on. Usually, Yeah, you know, what they're 1269 01:07:45,880 --> 01:07:50,200 Speaker 1: eating is so important in the early season and a 1270 01:07:50,200 --> 01:07:52,600 Speaker 1: lot during October, and a lot in the late season 1271 01:07:52,600 --> 01:07:54,800 Speaker 1: in December. But if there's any time in a year 1272 01:07:54,840 --> 01:07:57,640 Speaker 1: maybe where it's not quite as important, it's probably that 1273 01:07:57,800 --> 01:08:01,440 Speaker 1: pre rut and rut time period. Um. And tell me 1274 01:08:01,480 --> 01:08:04,000 Speaker 1: if you think differently, but I think on average is 1275 01:08:04,040 --> 01:08:08,080 Speaker 1: a little less important least at that time of year. Um. 1276 01:08:08,440 --> 01:08:10,880 Speaker 1: Kind of falling back on that theme of your aggressive 1277 01:08:12,240 --> 01:08:16,120 Speaker 1: mantra or your aggressive approach to hunting, once we get 1278 01:08:16,200 --> 01:08:18,599 Speaker 1: to that time period, we're past the October law, we're 1279 01:08:18,600 --> 01:08:20,479 Speaker 1: into the pre rut. In the rut, that's when most 1280 01:08:20,520 --> 01:08:25,519 Speaker 1: people get aggressive. Um yeah, what does getting aggressive at 1281 01:08:25,560 --> 01:08:28,880 Speaker 1: that time look like for you? Well, what what are 1282 01:08:28,880 --> 01:08:31,120 Speaker 1: the bucks doing that time of year? They're kind of 1283 01:08:31,160 --> 01:08:39,840 Speaker 1: nosing around? What are the doors doing? Food? Yeah, it's 1284 01:08:40,479 --> 01:08:44,439 Speaker 1: it's yeah, there are some places that you know, you 1285 01:08:44,479 --> 01:08:47,280 Speaker 1: get these cruising bucks, you get you can have areas 1286 01:08:47,360 --> 01:08:49,720 Speaker 1: that during the rut, when the bucks are cruising, their 1287 01:08:49,720 --> 01:08:54,720 Speaker 1: certain areas they use year after year, generation after generation 1288 01:08:55,000 --> 01:08:59,320 Speaker 1: that are just absolute cruising spots. But food still plays 1289 01:08:59,360 --> 01:09:02,679 Speaker 1: a very important role in the rut, but only because 1290 01:09:02,720 --> 01:09:06,720 Speaker 1: then you're you're actually hunting mannerists here, which I hate. 1291 01:09:07,240 --> 01:09:10,639 Speaker 1: I think we all do, because you know, we get 1292 01:09:10,640 --> 01:09:13,280 Speaker 1: picked off way more by dolls and funds and small 1293 01:09:13,280 --> 01:09:15,200 Speaker 1: bucks than we do mature bucks. Let's be honest, and 1294 01:09:17,200 --> 01:09:19,360 Speaker 1: oh my gosh, you know, and more big bucks have 1295 01:09:19,400 --> 01:09:22,200 Speaker 1: been saved by dos than we care to talk about 1296 01:09:22,280 --> 01:09:24,360 Speaker 1: or even think about it. I can think of dozens 1297 01:09:24,400 --> 01:09:28,360 Speaker 1: that have you know, survived just on my behalf because 1298 01:09:28,360 --> 01:09:32,040 Speaker 1: of a nosy or suspicious doll. But it's still a 1299 01:09:32,080 --> 01:09:35,160 Speaker 1: food thing. It's just that the bucks are I think 1300 01:09:35,160 --> 01:09:37,479 Speaker 1: the mature bucks are changing the way they're relating to 1301 01:09:37,520 --> 01:09:41,720 Speaker 1: their surroundings, you know, to get to where the doors are. 1302 01:09:42,280 --> 01:09:44,920 Speaker 1: And during the rut especially, you know, they'll just they'll 1303 01:09:44,920 --> 01:09:48,000 Speaker 1: come into a feeding area and maybe they'll just circle 1304 01:09:48,040 --> 01:09:50,760 Speaker 1: to the downland side. They're not interested in meeting. They'll 1305 01:09:50,760 --> 01:09:53,280 Speaker 1: just circle to the downland side, snout then deer that 1306 01:09:53,320 --> 01:09:56,320 Speaker 1: are there, and go, nothing interesting here, I'm gonna move on. 1307 01:09:56,560 --> 01:09:58,639 Speaker 1: And we've all see that, you know, when they're cruising, 1308 01:09:58,640 --> 01:10:01,200 Speaker 1: walk walk, walk, stops the the ground, sniff the air, walk, 1309 01:10:01,200 --> 01:10:04,880 Speaker 1: walk walk over and over again. They're just cruising. They're 1310 01:10:04,920 --> 01:10:07,800 Speaker 1: not interested needing. They're just interested in one thing and 1311 01:10:07,840 --> 01:10:09,960 Speaker 1: they know where to go to find that thing. The 1312 01:10:10,280 --> 01:10:15,519 Speaker 1: pretty standard approach if I had oversimplify what the you know, 1313 01:10:15,600 --> 01:10:18,080 Speaker 1: hundreds of different deer hunters I've talked to say, if 1314 01:10:18,120 --> 01:10:20,639 Speaker 1: I could just boil it down to the simplest of things, 1315 01:10:21,080 --> 01:10:23,759 Speaker 1: you would say, maybe on average, most guys or girls 1316 01:10:23,840 --> 01:10:27,240 Speaker 1: during the rut are hunting either downwind of betting years 1317 01:10:27,360 --> 01:10:29,680 Speaker 1: or food sources or some kind of pinch point during 1318 01:10:29,720 --> 01:10:32,759 Speaker 1: the rut, and you kind of lump of all hunting 1319 01:10:32,800 --> 01:10:36,320 Speaker 1: tactics at that time of year into one of those buckets. 1320 01:10:36,760 --> 01:10:39,080 Speaker 1: Do you do anything different than that? Is there anything 1321 01:10:39,120 --> 01:10:41,439 Speaker 1: outside of that that you think about or or add 1322 01:10:41,479 --> 01:10:44,479 Speaker 1: to the recipe during the rut when you're getting aggressive 1323 01:10:44,520 --> 01:10:47,520 Speaker 1: with it? Um. One thing we haven't discussed as I 1324 01:10:47,520 --> 01:10:50,760 Speaker 1: I huddle over a decloy a lot. I feelt some 1325 01:10:50,800 --> 01:10:54,400 Speaker 1: of my best deer over decloys, and you know, I, 1326 01:10:54,400 --> 01:10:56,280 Speaker 1: if there's a way to put a decoy in the mix, 1327 01:10:56,320 --> 01:10:59,840 Speaker 1: I'm going to do it. But you know it's you. 1328 01:11:00,040 --> 01:11:02,080 Speaker 1: It ain't broke, don't fix it. The two the two 1329 01:11:02,120 --> 01:11:06,080 Speaker 1: strategies you mentioned mark there, they're just so proven and 1330 01:11:06,120 --> 01:11:09,559 Speaker 1: there's and they're so effective. And you know, I also 1331 01:11:09,560 --> 01:11:11,320 Speaker 1: show in some calling, you know if there's a time 1332 01:11:11,320 --> 01:11:14,400 Speaker 1: when rattling and grunning can be employed, And yeah, you 1333 01:11:14,400 --> 01:11:17,320 Speaker 1: can do it too much, but it's also going to 1334 01:11:17,400 --> 01:11:19,920 Speaker 1: provide you with chances. Eventually, it's going to provide you 1335 01:11:19,960 --> 01:11:22,000 Speaker 1: with chances or a chance you wouldn't have had you 1336 01:11:22,080 --> 01:11:25,320 Speaker 1: not used it. Same with the decoy. UM. You know, 1337 01:11:25,360 --> 01:11:28,080 Speaker 1: I pulled hot hot bucks away from hot doors or 1338 01:11:28,120 --> 01:11:30,760 Speaker 1: a decoy no way, shape or form would come over 1339 01:11:30,800 --> 01:11:33,639 Speaker 1: and committed suicide had I not had that phony deer 1340 01:11:33,640 --> 01:11:36,400 Speaker 1: out there walked right away from I didn't come far, 1341 01:11:36,560 --> 01:11:38,400 Speaker 1: but they were out of bowl range initially, and they 1342 01:11:38,400 --> 01:11:41,280 Speaker 1: came over to challenge this guy that didn't want seem 1343 01:11:41,360 --> 01:11:43,280 Speaker 1: to want to acknowledge him. You know, the decoys just 1344 01:11:43,360 --> 01:11:45,679 Speaker 1: standing there, and it seems to really irritate those bucks 1345 01:11:45,680 --> 01:11:48,120 Speaker 1: that it's not responding in any way. It's not doing 1346 01:11:48,120 --> 01:11:50,600 Speaker 1: the head bob, it's not turning its head. It's the 1347 01:11:50,680 --> 01:11:52,960 Speaker 1: less it moves it more. It seems to make them mad. 1348 01:11:53,800 --> 01:11:58,960 Speaker 1: So um, but yeah, random calling during the rut, in 1349 01:11:59,040 --> 01:12:03,160 Speaker 1: the in the uh, pinge points and do fan areas 1350 01:12:03,240 --> 01:12:06,720 Speaker 1: any place that analysts you are using you know, feeding areas, uh. 1351 01:12:07,479 --> 01:12:10,920 Speaker 1: The edges of betting areas all good. Those are the 1352 01:12:10,920 --> 01:12:13,160 Speaker 1: go tools. I think they have been for a long time. 1353 01:12:13,600 --> 01:12:16,160 Speaker 1: I think they will continue to be. I guess a 1354 01:12:16,240 --> 01:12:19,439 Speaker 1: lot of it comes down to executing on that though, 1355 01:12:19,479 --> 01:12:21,240 Speaker 1: because most people know what you're supposed to do at 1356 01:12:21,240 --> 01:12:23,720 Speaker 1: that time of the year. Probably the harder thing is 1357 01:12:23,720 --> 01:12:27,320 Speaker 1: is getting small details right, so knowing exactly where to 1358 01:12:27,439 --> 01:12:29,880 Speaker 1: the right spot on the downward edges to set up 1359 01:12:30,000 --> 01:12:33,920 Speaker 1: and then pulling it off, spending the time getting up 1360 01:12:33,960 --> 01:12:37,200 Speaker 1: on time being out there, not creaking the tree stand 1361 01:12:37,200 --> 01:12:39,200 Speaker 1: at the last moment. Those little things probably are what 1362 01:12:39,320 --> 01:12:41,800 Speaker 1: separate the way from the chef. Yeah, you know, there's 1363 01:12:42,479 --> 01:12:45,760 Speaker 1: we talked strategy, and we talked you know, game plan 1364 01:12:45,800 --> 01:12:48,040 Speaker 1: and all that. But there's something to be said for 1365 01:12:48,080 --> 01:12:52,559 Speaker 1: exposure just being out there, especially that time of year 1366 01:12:52,600 --> 01:12:56,160 Speaker 1: when the bucks are doing it. Um. You know the 1367 01:12:56,200 --> 01:12:58,120 Speaker 1: old saying you can't kill them if you aren't out there, 1368 01:12:58,160 --> 01:13:03,439 Speaker 1: and that's so true, and yet people just well some 1369 01:13:03,680 --> 01:13:05,479 Speaker 1: it's gotten better. People know they need to be out 1370 01:13:05,520 --> 01:13:09,519 Speaker 1: there now, but um, it's just so true. You know, 1371 01:13:09,600 --> 01:13:12,879 Speaker 1: I can't stress enough that we get that that little window. 1372 01:13:13,880 --> 01:13:16,920 Speaker 1: Fortunately I get kind of a broader window because I'll 1373 01:13:16,960 --> 01:13:19,000 Speaker 1: probably do in two or three different states and maybe 1374 01:13:19,000 --> 01:13:22,519 Speaker 1: a Canadian province during the month in November, and you know, 1375 01:13:23,080 --> 01:13:25,960 Speaker 1: the ruts going strong the very last days in November, 1376 01:13:26,479 --> 01:13:28,720 Speaker 1: like South Dakota. This past year, I killed a good 1377 01:13:28,720 --> 01:13:31,600 Speaker 1: buck over the decoy and I think it's November and 1378 01:13:31,640 --> 01:13:36,760 Speaker 1: that deer was the rut was just going crazy. And 1379 01:13:36,800 --> 01:13:39,840 Speaker 1: the week before I killed a giant uh deer in 1380 01:13:39,920 --> 01:13:43,559 Speaker 1: Saskatchewan and the rut was just starting. It was really 1381 01:13:43,600 --> 01:13:47,200 Speaker 1: going up there. So you know, I get that luxury 1382 01:13:47,280 --> 01:13:52,280 Speaker 1: of hunting different geographic locations, um, and getting a whole 1383 01:13:52,640 --> 01:13:56,639 Speaker 1: almost a full month of rut hunting. Um. But there's 1384 01:13:56,640 --> 01:13:58,920 Speaker 1: nothing like exposure during that month. I'm going to be 1385 01:13:58,960 --> 01:14:02,240 Speaker 1: in a tree somewhere, We're gonna ground blind somewhere. That's 1386 01:14:02,280 --> 01:14:04,920 Speaker 1: the whole key to this kind of along those lines, 1387 01:14:05,800 --> 01:14:09,120 Speaker 1: that's usually one of the things that's easier said than done. 1388 01:14:09,120 --> 01:14:11,840 Speaker 1: Though for a lot of people, especially if they're just 1389 01:14:11,840 --> 01:14:13,760 Speaker 1: getting into it, they hear, oh, yeah, I should take 1390 01:14:13,800 --> 01:14:16,120 Speaker 1: my vacation during that time period and i sit out 1391 01:14:16,120 --> 01:14:18,160 Speaker 1: there all day every day, and I'm gonna, you know, 1392 01:14:18,240 --> 01:14:21,080 Speaker 1: put in twelve straight days or fourteen straight days, or 1393 01:14:21,120 --> 01:14:23,960 Speaker 1: maybe it's five straight days, whatever it is. Um. People 1394 01:14:24,120 --> 01:14:26,519 Speaker 1: quickly will find out that's that's not as easy and 1395 01:14:26,640 --> 01:14:29,439 Speaker 1: not even as fun sometimes as we imagine it's going 1396 01:14:29,479 --> 01:14:31,760 Speaker 1: to be. When we're sitting here in February dreaming about 1397 01:14:31,760 --> 01:14:35,360 Speaker 1: the run, um, can you can you just talk a 1398 01:14:35,360 --> 01:14:37,760 Speaker 1: little bit about maybe some of the things you've learned 1399 01:14:37,800 --> 01:14:41,280 Speaker 1: over the years about the mental side of hunting at 1400 01:14:41,280 --> 01:14:45,000 Speaker 1: that time of year. It's geographic location as far as 1401 01:14:45,200 --> 01:14:47,840 Speaker 1: as being out there, trying to be out there as 1402 01:14:47,920 --> 01:14:50,599 Speaker 1: many days as humanly possible during the month in November 1403 01:14:50,880 --> 01:14:54,240 Speaker 1: for me, maybe even I mean October can be good too. 1404 01:14:54,240 --> 01:14:56,360 Speaker 1: I killed some some of my better dear that last 1405 01:14:56,360 --> 01:14:59,479 Speaker 1: week of October as well. Um, but then it's pretty 1406 01:14:59,520 --> 01:15:02,599 Speaker 1: right near rub lines and they're very predictable as far 1407 01:15:02,640 --> 01:15:05,840 Speaker 1: as where they're going to walk, not when, but where. Um. 1408 01:15:05,960 --> 01:15:10,280 Speaker 1: But uh, the thing is, you know, taking the vacation 1409 01:15:10,360 --> 01:15:13,320 Speaker 1: and for the average working person which I was for 1410 01:15:13,360 --> 01:15:17,840 Speaker 1: a lot of years with my construction job, you don't 1411 01:15:17,880 --> 01:15:21,320 Speaker 1: get the home of to run and gun. So that 1412 01:15:22,120 --> 01:15:24,400 Speaker 1: this is a very interesting and I'm glad you brought 1413 01:15:24,400 --> 01:15:28,360 Speaker 1: this up because the timing of the rut and maybe 1414 01:15:28,360 --> 01:15:31,800 Speaker 1: you'll agree, maybe you'll disagree, But I think it's it's 1415 01:15:31,840 --> 01:15:34,160 Speaker 1: so up in the air anymore. It just seems like 1416 01:15:34,400 --> 01:15:37,080 Speaker 1: we don't, at least here in Wisconsin and a few 1417 01:15:37,080 --> 01:15:40,479 Speaker 1: other places I hunt. You never know when that peak 1418 01:15:41,000 --> 01:15:44,600 Speaker 1: week is going to be anymore. Um. It used to 1419 01:15:44,600 --> 01:15:47,720 Speaker 1: be seems to me anyway, that it used to be 1420 01:15:47,840 --> 01:15:50,400 Speaker 1: later here in Wisconsin. Now it seems like it's earlier. 1421 01:15:51,320 --> 01:15:55,920 Speaker 1: That's just me. Uh. South Dakota, I killed that deer 1422 01:15:56,000 --> 01:15:59,920 Speaker 1: last year with bone arrow that that's later than more. 1423 01:16:00,000 --> 01:16:02,840 Speaker 1: All out there, I think I could be wrong. I've 1424 01:16:02,880 --> 01:16:07,479 Speaker 1: on it all there for twelve fourteen years. But it's 1425 01:16:07,640 --> 01:16:10,040 Speaker 1: just tough. You can look at moon phase and I 1426 01:16:10,080 --> 01:16:13,120 Speaker 1: don't know all of this has a plays. The factor 1427 01:16:13,080 --> 01:16:16,479 Speaker 1: of weather is a huge factor. Um, if if we 1428 01:16:16,560 --> 01:16:20,240 Speaker 1: get that warm weather in November that you know we 1429 01:16:20,280 --> 01:16:23,559 Speaker 1: do get occasionally get suppressed as a rout without a doubt, 1430 01:16:23,600 --> 01:16:27,240 Speaker 1: I think you'll agree with me when that happens. Oh no, 1431 01:16:27,560 --> 01:16:31,360 Speaker 1: and it you know, it's it's just pretty much all 1432 01:16:31,520 --> 01:16:34,400 Speaker 1: nocturnal then or maybe not even you know, going to 1433 01:16:34,520 --> 01:16:40,080 Speaker 1: happen until later. But I don't think there's a I 1434 01:16:40,120 --> 01:16:42,880 Speaker 1: think it's it's different by geographic location. But I also 1435 01:16:42,920 --> 01:16:48,519 Speaker 1: think there's the moon phases, the weather, um, the buck, 1436 01:16:48,600 --> 01:16:52,400 Speaker 1: the door ratio, and you know, there's so many factors 1437 01:16:52,439 --> 01:16:56,160 Speaker 1: beyond what some people would point to and go, well, 1438 01:16:56,200 --> 01:16:58,800 Speaker 1: here's why the here's why the rut was no good 1439 01:16:58,840 --> 01:17:02,479 Speaker 1: this year, here's why the you know just didn't happen here. Well, 1440 01:17:02,520 --> 01:17:07,160 Speaker 1: it happens every year, yea. Um, But I can't. I 1441 01:17:07,200 --> 01:17:11,519 Speaker 1: can't honestly and truthfully sit here and say, well, this 1442 01:17:11,640 --> 01:17:14,240 Speaker 1: is the reason that this happens, and even after all 1443 01:17:14,320 --> 01:17:17,040 Speaker 1: these years, I think it's a it's a combination of 1444 01:17:17,120 --> 01:17:20,200 Speaker 1: factors that if they all if one or two of 1445 01:17:20,280 --> 01:17:23,000 Speaker 1: them happen at the same time. With three, it's going 1446 01:17:23,080 --> 01:17:29,040 Speaker 1: to affect the rut period regardless of geographic location. Is 1447 01:17:29,080 --> 01:17:32,000 Speaker 1: there is there anything? And this kind of goes back 1448 01:17:32,040 --> 01:17:36,600 Speaker 1: to something I mentioned a second ago as far as weathering, 1449 01:17:37,160 --> 01:17:41,080 Speaker 1: that's getting through that period of the hunting season with 1450 01:17:41,120 --> 01:17:43,799 Speaker 1: your wits about you. Is there anything you've learned? Just 1451 01:17:43,800 --> 01:17:46,719 Speaker 1: just for me, I always think of as a grind, 1452 01:17:46,840 --> 01:17:49,320 Speaker 1: Like the rut is a grind. It's it's gonna be 1453 01:17:49,360 --> 01:17:51,360 Speaker 1: tough to get up in the morning. Some days, it's 1454 01:17:51,360 --> 01:17:53,760 Speaker 1: gonna be tough to sit in the stand through the 1455 01:17:53,800 --> 01:17:56,840 Speaker 1: storm and make it all the way until dark. There's 1456 01:17:56,840 --> 01:17:58,599 Speaker 1: gonna be days I'm like, dang it, I just want 1457 01:17:58,640 --> 01:18:02,439 Speaker 1: to sleep in today. Um, And you know, I try 1458 01:18:02,520 --> 01:18:05,000 Speaker 1: to push through it. I've I've though I've been kind 1459 01:18:05,040 --> 01:18:06,720 Speaker 1: of evolving a little bit and I don't I don't 1460 01:18:06,760 --> 01:18:09,160 Speaker 1: know where you're at on this, But for a lot 1461 01:18:09,200 --> 01:18:12,680 Speaker 1: of years I thought you should hunt every single day 1462 01:18:12,720 --> 01:18:14,880 Speaker 1: that you can, the entire day that you can during 1463 01:18:14,920 --> 01:18:17,639 Speaker 1: the run, every single moment. You gotta just push through 1464 01:18:17,720 --> 01:18:20,920 Speaker 1: the exhaustion, push through everything else. I've just sort of 1465 01:18:20,960 --> 01:18:24,000 Speaker 1: started to rethink that a little bit especially now with 1466 01:18:24,080 --> 01:18:27,400 Speaker 1: young kids and stuff. Um, maybe it makes sense to 1467 01:18:28,200 --> 01:18:30,360 Speaker 1: sleep in, maybe choose a day and say, you know what, 1468 01:18:30,400 --> 01:18:32,760 Speaker 1: I'm gonna sleep in today and go out to hunt 1469 01:18:32,760 --> 01:18:35,360 Speaker 1: at noon instead, because that half day rest and extra 1470 01:18:35,400 --> 01:18:37,800 Speaker 1: town in my family will make me that much more 1471 01:18:37,840 --> 01:18:40,760 Speaker 1: focused and that much more effective of a hunter the 1472 01:18:40,800 --> 01:18:44,200 Speaker 1: next six days because that I gave myself that and 1473 01:18:44,240 --> 01:18:46,280 Speaker 1: that's gonna make me better because of it. Have you 1474 01:18:46,360 --> 01:18:47,920 Speaker 1: do you have any thoughts on that? Have you gone 1475 01:18:47,920 --> 01:18:50,880 Speaker 1: through those same ups and downs and questions as you've 1476 01:18:51,040 --> 01:18:53,840 Speaker 1: as you've hunted the Run over the years. Absolutely, I 1477 01:18:53,840 --> 01:18:58,000 Speaker 1: mean it's it's it's even more you know you've gotten older. 1478 01:18:58,000 --> 01:19:01,759 Speaker 1: It's it's it's become even are difficult to do that grind, 1479 01:19:01,880 --> 01:19:05,640 Speaker 1: and it is a grind, um, you know now that 1480 01:19:05,680 --> 01:19:07,640 Speaker 1: I've slowed down on the production and and just it's 1481 01:19:07,720 --> 01:19:09,920 Speaker 1: just picking and choosing some room with it hunts to do. 1482 01:19:10,080 --> 01:19:12,519 Speaker 1: And of course, you know a couple of those are 1483 01:19:12,560 --> 01:19:14,559 Speaker 1: going to be really good early season hunts that have 1484 01:19:14,640 --> 01:19:17,679 Speaker 1: been reliable for us in the past. But I'm still 1485 01:19:17,720 --> 01:19:21,960 Speaker 1: basing the majority of my hunting activity around the Run. 1486 01:19:22,479 --> 01:19:24,200 Speaker 1: You know, it's the time of year we all wait for, 1487 01:19:24,360 --> 01:19:26,479 Speaker 1: we can't you know that three letter word does more 1488 01:19:26,520 --> 01:19:28,960 Speaker 1: to stimulate guys than the other three letter words, I think, 1489 01:19:33,840 --> 01:19:38,080 Speaker 1: But um, it only comes once a year, and it's like, 1490 01:19:38,600 --> 01:19:40,559 Speaker 1: I gotta be out here. But what you said about 1491 01:19:40,600 --> 01:19:43,559 Speaker 1: just taking a day and collect your thoughts and get 1492 01:19:43,560 --> 01:19:46,680 Speaker 1: your wits about you, that I think that's extremely extremely 1493 01:19:46,720 --> 01:19:51,639 Speaker 1: good advice. I there's you know, when I was really 1494 01:19:51,760 --> 01:19:54,840 Speaker 1: running and gunning and doing this there, it was a 1495 01:19:54,960 --> 01:19:59,280 Speaker 1: real it was real risk of the burnout factor. And 1496 01:20:00,040 --> 01:20:03,479 Speaker 1: so I mean, if you're not on top of your game, 1497 01:20:03,560 --> 01:20:05,439 Speaker 1: if you're not as sharp as you should be when 1498 01:20:05,439 --> 01:20:08,120 Speaker 1: you're out there, then why be out there? Take a 1499 01:20:08,200 --> 01:20:11,160 Speaker 1: day or two, even sleep in one morning. Just just 1500 01:20:11,920 --> 01:20:15,000 Speaker 1: don't set the alarm clock or set your phone to 1501 01:20:15,240 --> 01:20:17,120 Speaker 1: buzz at a certain time in the morning, you know, 1502 01:20:17,240 --> 01:20:20,880 Speaker 1: and sleep in one day. The problem with that is 1503 01:20:20,920 --> 01:20:22,679 Speaker 1: as soon as you wake up, you're gonna feel guilty. 1504 01:20:24,439 --> 01:20:28,320 Speaker 1: But I think it's I've done it on out of 1505 01:20:28,360 --> 01:20:31,960 Speaker 1: state hunts where you know we're under the gun, and 1506 01:20:32,000 --> 01:20:34,120 Speaker 1: this is this is a pretty important deal. There's a 1507 01:20:34,160 --> 01:20:36,519 Speaker 1: lot of pressure. We got to try and get thirteen 1508 01:20:36,520 --> 01:20:40,519 Speaker 1: original episodes in the can each season, and you just 1509 01:20:40,600 --> 01:20:44,000 Speaker 1: have to take a day off, you just do. But 1510 01:20:44,160 --> 01:20:47,000 Speaker 1: whether it's during a rut or not, it's it does 1511 01:20:47,040 --> 01:20:50,680 Speaker 1: catch up to a person, and especially you know, it's 1512 01:20:50,680 --> 01:20:52,880 Speaker 1: a little bit unique in a situation like yours where 1513 01:20:52,920 --> 01:20:55,320 Speaker 1: it's for the show or or even for myself when 1514 01:20:55,360 --> 01:20:58,080 Speaker 1: I feel like that's part of my my job as well, 1515 01:20:58,160 --> 01:21:01,080 Speaker 1: but when you're just doing this for fun because that's 1516 01:21:01,080 --> 01:21:03,320 Speaker 1: how you want to use your vacation time. I still 1517 01:21:03,400 --> 01:21:05,800 Speaker 1: think there is a certain amount of pressure on a 1518 01:21:05,800 --> 01:21:08,360 Speaker 1: lot of people these days because so many of us 1519 01:21:08,360 --> 01:21:11,439 Speaker 1: take hunting so seriously, we're so passionate about it, and 1520 01:21:11,439 --> 01:21:13,679 Speaker 1: and it maybe it's even getting a little competitive, people 1521 01:21:13,840 --> 01:21:17,040 Speaker 1: kind of comparing apples to apples with what did you shoot? 1522 01:21:17,080 --> 01:21:19,200 Speaker 1: What do you shoot? Your buddy got this, dear. I 1523 01:21:19,240 --> 01:21:21,280 Speaker 1: think there's probably a lot of people that feel this 1524 01:21:21,479 --> 01:21:24,400 Speaker 1: pressure during the rut, like it's got to happen. This 1525 01:21:24,439 --> 01:21:26,479 Speaker 1: is when it's supposed to happen. I waited all year 1526 01:21:26,520 --> 01:21:29,960 Speaker 1: for this to happen. And as soon as you at 1527 01:21:30,040 --> 01:21:32,559 Speaker 1: least this is my two cents. As soon as you 1528 01:21:32,560 --> 01:21:35,320 Speaker 1: start feeling that way, and it goes from being a 1529 01:21:35,400 --> 01:21:38,559 Speaker 1: thing you're really excited about and looking forward to every morning, 1530 01:21:38,600 --> 01:21:41,000 Speaker 1: and that you're thinking, Gali, I'm the luckiest guy in 1531 01:21:41,000 --> 01:21:42,920 Speaker 1: the world because I get to do this today. If 1532 01:21:42,920 --> 01:21:45,639 Speaker 1: you don't feel like that anymore, you probably should take 1533 01:21:45,680 --> 01:21:47,439 Speaker 1: a day off because if this is how you're spending 1534 01:21:47,439 --> 01:21:50,000 Speaker 1: your vacation time, this is supposed to be fun. It 1535 01:21:50,040 --> 01:21:52,080 Speaker 1: shouldn't feel like a crappy job you're going to in 1536 01:21:52,120 --> 01:21:56,080 Speaker 1: the morning. Um. I think those at risk sometimes if 1537 01:21:56,200 --> 01:21:59,080 Speaker 1: if you take it too seriously. So that's that's something 1538 01:21:59,120 --> 01:22:02,160 Speaker 1: I've been thinking about. Two. Yeah, and that's that's very 1539 01:22:02,160 --> 01:22:06,320 Speaker 1: well put markets If it's if it's just become a 1540 01:22:06,320 --> 01:22:09,840 Speaker 1: grind and it's you're you're really not having fun. But 1541 01:22:10,479 --> 01:22:13,640 Speaker 1: it's also you get to that state with your on 1542 01:22:13,680 --> 01:22:16,680 Speaker 1: the mental side of it because you're tired and you're 1543 01:22:16,680 --> 01:22:20,799 Speaker 1: burned out, and you can recover. I mean, just taken 1544 01:22:20,840 --> 01:22:23,120 Speaker 1: one day off has worked wonders for me. You said 1545 01:22:23,320 --> 01:22:29,160 Speaker 1: it helps you. It's just one day. It's just one day, um, 1546 01:22:29,240 --> 01:22:30,960 Speaker 1: and then you'll be ready to get after it again. 1547 01:22:31,200 --> 01:22:34,120 Speaker 1: It doesn't take much. But it's a little bit longer 1548 01:22:34,120 --> 01:22:37,800 Speaker 1: than that now for me, but not much. It's still great. 1549 01:22:37,840 --> 01:22:40,600 Speaker 1: I think it's just so cool that I've done it. 1550 01:22:40,640 --> 01:22:42,720 Speaker 1: As long as I've done it, and it gets to 1551 01:22:42,720 --> 01:22:45,720 Speaker 1: be that time of year and you know, taking a 1552 01:22:45,840 --> 01:22:50,000 Speaker 1: day off as hard, that's great that it still gets 1553 01:22:50,000 --> 01:22:52,639 Speaker 1: you excited and amp to be out there. I'm glad 1554 01:22:52,680 --> 01:22:56,840 Speaker 1: to know that that's still just as powerful of the 1555 01:22:56,960 --> 01:22:59,800 Speaker 1: thing for you as as it was thirty years ago. 1556 01:23:00,120 --> 01:23:01,800 Speaker 1: So that's pretty cool to know that it's not going 1557 01:23:01,840 --> 01:23:05,559 Speaker 1: to get old. No, no, you know, And I've I've 1558 01:23:05,920 --> 01:23:09,920 Speaker 1: I've been blessed. I've done it more, more years and 1559 01:23:09,960 --> 01:23:15,880 Speaker 1: more places, with more more situations, different situations, and most 1560 01:23:15,920 --> 01:23:20,240 Speaker 1: people ever will And like I said, I'm I'm blessed 1561 01:23:20,240 --> 01:23:23,679 Speaker 1: to have been able to do that. But it's also 1562 01:23:23,960 --> 01:23:26,519 Speaker 1: when you do it to that degree, the burnout factor 1563 01:23:26,560 --> 01:23:31,360 Speaker 1: becomes way more um of a possibility. And then then 1564 01:23:31,479 --> 01:23:35,439 Speaker 1: just say, you know, the average deer hunter, and by average, 1565 01:23:35,439 --> 01:23:37,600 Speaker 1: I don't mean to to mean anybody. It's just the 1566 01:23:37,640 --> 01:23:42,280 Speaker 1: guy that hunts, you know, the same tracted land um 1567 01:23:42,560 --> 01:23:45,479 Speaker 1: day after day. And that's the other thing is if 1568 01:23:45,520 --> 01:23:47,559 Speaker 1: you're hunting the same tract of land, maybe you need 1569 01:23:47,600 --> 01:23:49,880 Speaker 1: to take a little time off, because if you're putting 1570 01:23:49,880 --> 01:23:52,120 Speaker 1: that much pressure on the deer herd as a whole, 1571 01:23:52,760 --> 01:23:54,679 Speaker 1: maybe you should just stay out there for a day 1572 01:23:54,800 --> 01:23:58,160 Speaker 1: and let them regroup too. It's not just us, it's 1573 01:23:58,200 --> 01:24:00,439 Speaker 1: the deer that we're putting the pressure on. Good point. 1574 01:24:00,640 --> 01:24:02,000 Speaker 1: I want to I want to pick your brand in 1575 01:24:02,120 --> 01:24:05,240 Speaker 1: one more specific tactical thing, and then we should we 1576 01:24:05,240 --> 01:24:07,120 Speaker 1: should probably wrap this up because I've kept you here 1577 01:24:07,120 --> 01:24:11,479 Speaker 1: a long time. Um. But you mentioned de coin, and 1578 01:24:11,800 --> 01:24:14,880 Speaker 1: that is something I actually reached out to Pat Durkin 1579 01:24:15,720 --> 01:24:17,360 Speaker 1: before this and just mentioned that we were going to 1580 01:24:17,479 --> 01:24:19,599 Speaker 1: chat and ask him if there's anything that he thought 1581 01:24:19,720 --> 01:24:21,519 Speaker 1: that I should ask you about, because he's I know, 1582 01:24:21,600 --> 01:24:23,920 Speaker 1: you guys have known each other and work together for 1583 01:24:23,920 --> 01:24:26,400 Speaker 1: a good number of years. And and he brought up 1584 01:24:26,439 --> 01:24:28,559 Speaker 1: two things, and one of them was decoin, the fact 1585 01:24:28,640 --> 01:24:30,920 Speaker 1: that you are a little bit unique and how often 1586 01:24:31,040 --> 01:24:34,000 Speaker 1: you use it and how effectively you've used it. Um. 1587 01:24:34,040 --> 01:24:36,880 Speaker 1: And I've actually saw in one episode of a show 1588 01:24:36,920 --> 01:24:38,720 Speaker 1: of yours, and maybe you've done this other times, but 1589 01:24:38,800 --> 01:24:41,360 Speaker 1: I thought I saw this and thought it was pretty interesting. 1590 01:24:41,880 --> 01:24:44,680 Speaker 1: You were actually set up with two decoys. We were 1591 01:24:44,720 --> 01:24:46,240 Speaker 1: in a fence row and you had to feel on 1592 01:24:46,280 --> 01:24:48,040 Speaker 1: your left and feel in your right, and you had 1593 01:24:48,040 --> 01:24:49,840 Speaker 1: a buck decoy in the left side field you had 1594 01:24:49,840 --> 01:24:53,280 Speaker 1: a buck decoy in the right side field. UM. I 1595 01:24:53,280 --> 01:24:55,240 Speaker 1: thought that was pretty unique and it made sense in 1596 01:24:55,280 --> 01:24:58,200 Speaker 1: the situation. I really like to hear a little bit 1597 01:24:58,240 --> 01:25:01,440 Speaker 1: more about that kind of to situation and other situations 1598 01:25:01,439 --> 01:25:04,719 Speaker 1: where you use decoys and how you do that well, 1599 01:25:05,040 --> 01:25:07,719 Speaker 1: that situation, that's interesting. You should bring that up because 1600 01:25:08,080 --> 01:25:11,599 Speaker 1: when I when I signed the deal with North American 1601 01:25:11,640 --> 01:25:13,920 Speaker 1: White Tail to do X number of hunts each year. 1602 01:25:14,640 --> 01:25:18,439 Speaker 1: UM the executive producer uh and the guy that's that's 1603 01:25:18,520 --> 01:25:20,840 Speaker 1: running the show got the name of Laden Forest, asked 1604 01:25:20,840 --> 01:25:23,200 Speaker 1: me if I they wanted to flash back to two 1605 01:25:23,200 --> 01:25:25,720 Speaker 1: of my earlier hunts, two of my favorite hunts all 1606 01:25:25,800 --> 01:25:28,120 Speaker 1: time from the days when I was with North American 1607 01:25:28,120 --> 01:25:30,559 Speaker 1: Whitetail Television. And that's one of the hunts I picked. 1608 01:25:31,680 --> 01:25:35,080 Speaker 1: And that that situation Mike Clerkin was filmed in me 1609 01:25:35,120 --> 01:25:37,720 Speaker 1: and Mike's made his way around the industry now and 1610 01:25:38,000 --> 01:25:42,240 Speaker 1: become a name for himself. But we were we were 1611 01:25:42,240 --> 01:25:46,000 Speaker 1: on this rut hunt in Illinois and it was happening 1612 01:25:46,479 --> 01:25:49,840 Speaker 1: and we just couldn't get anything close to us, and 1613 01:25:50,200 --> 01:25:53,280 Speaker 1: we found this set up that was there was a 1614 01:25:53,320 --> 01:25:57,599 Speaker 1: winter wheat field on both sides of this um brushy 1615 01:25:57,680 --> 01:26:03,559 Speaker 1: fence line and there was a one lone white ochre 1616 01:26:03,640 --> 01:26:06,720 Speaker 1: red oak that was perfect for our tree stands, and 1617 01:26:06,960 --> 01:26:09,800 Speaker 1: so we got her stands up and Mike says, so, 1618 01:26:09,840 --> 01:26:12,000 Speaker 1: we're you gonna put the decoy And I'm like, well, 1619 01:26:12,040 --> 01:26:13,679 Speaker 1: if I put it on that side and what comes 1620 01:26:13,680 --> 01:26:16,519 Speaker 1: on this side, he'll never see it. And I said, 1621 01:26:16,560 --> 01:26:18,479 Speaker 1: if I put it on that side, then the same 1622 01:26:18,479 --> 01:26:20,000 Speaker 1: thing will happen if he comes on this side. And 1623 01:26:20,040 --> 01:26:22,360 Speaker 1: Mike said, I said, you don't happen to have a 1624 01:26:22,400 --> 01:26:24,320 Speaker 1: decoy in your truck to me, and he said I do. 1625 01:26:25,640 --> 01:26:28,479 Speaker 1: I said, that's problem solved. I said, We're going to 1626 01:26:28,640 --> 01:26:33,520 Speaker 1: something I've never done before, just in case that um 1627 01:26:33,640 --> 01:26:36,120 Speaker 1: because they were just pounding this winter wheat both sides 1628 01:26:36,120 --> 01:26:39,880 Speaker 1: of this brush line and I killed That's the six 1629 01:26:39,920 --> 01:26:41,760 Speaker 1: by six. I'm sitting in my living room right now. 1630 01:26:41,760 --> 01:26:45,760 Speaker 1: I got him double pedestal mount uh because I killed 1631 01:26:45,760 --> 01:26:48,720 Speaker 1: a giant deer with a muzzleloader that same year in 1632 01:26:48,720 --> 01:26:50,959 Speaker 1: Illinois and I got him on both on one pedestal. 1633 01:26:51,560 --> 01:26:53,720 Speaker 1: But yeah, I'm sitting here looking at it was a 1634 01:26:53,760 --> 01:26:56,559 Speaker 1: six by six typical. It was probably I don't know, 1635 01:26:56,720 --> 01:26:58,879 Speaker 1: ten ten thirty in the morning. He just come cruising 1636 01:26:59,760 --> 01:27:03,040 Speaker 1: and and he uh, all by himself and kind of 1637 01:27:03,040 --> 01:27:05,799 Speaker 1: on the lope, and I got his attention with rattling antlers, 1638 01:27:05,800 --> 01:27:07,920 Speaker 1: and I blew on my grunt call and came over. 1639 01:27:08,560 --> 01:27:11,120 Speaker 1: He came right into the decoy. But had had we 1640 01:27:11,160 --> 01:27:12,600 Speaker 1: not had the one out on that side of the 1641 01:27:12,640 --> 01:27:15,519 Speaker 1: brush line, he wouldn't have seen it. He wouldn't he 1642 01:27:15,560 --> 01:27:18,439 Speaker 1: had me any reason to, you know, come up there, bias. 1643 01:27:18,560 --> 01:27:22,120 Speaker 1: But so, how are you specifically setting that decoy up? 1644 01:27:22,200 --> 01:27:25,160 Speaker 1: What's the angle, what's the distance? How are you thinking 1645 01:27:25,200 --> 01:27:27,679 Speaker 1: about the wind when you set in position? I'm curious 1646 01:27:27,680 --> 01:27:31,799 Speaker 1: without the details there. Well, the wind I want, obviously, 1647 01:27:31,800 --> 01:27:33,360 Speaker 1: I want to win blown from the decoy to me 1648 01:27:33,400 --> 01:27:36,680 Speaker 1: as much as possible. Quartering wind could be okay. But 1649 01:27:37,400 --> 01:27:40,160 Speaker 1: one thing I've noticed, and I don't know at all, 1650 01:27:40,240 --> 01:27:44,200 Speaker 1: but I've been decoying longer than just about anybody I know, 1651 01:27:44,960 --> 01:27:51,479 Speaker 1: and um that bucks typically will circle to the head 1652 01:27:51,560 --> 01:27:54,639 Speaker 1: end of a buff decoy. They want to be looking 1653 01:27:54,720 --> 01:27:56,600 Speaker 1: that thing right in the face. So what I do 1654 01:27:56,720 --> 01:28:01,160 Speaker 1: is I put it out about yards, racing either directly 1655 01:28:01,200 --> 01:28:04,400 Speaker 1: ad or slightly quartering towards my tree stand, so that 1656 01:28:04,479 --> 01:28:07,080 Speaker 1: when the buck circles around to the head end, it 1657 01:28:07,160 --> 01:28:10,000 Speaker 1: puts him between me and the decoy, which means he's 1658 01:28:10,040 --> 01:28:13,719 Speaker 1: fifteen to twenty yards chip shot. And then you'll stop. 1659 01:28:13,840 --> 01:28:15,720 Speaker 1: The first thing you'll do is stop and turn his 1660 01:28:15,800 --> 01:28:17,920 Speaker 1: head and look at the decoy, which gives me my 1661 01:28:17,960 --> 01:28:22,040 Speaker 1: opportunity to draw my bone smoking. It's it's pretty simple, really, 1662 01:28:22,080 --> 01:28:25,519 Speaker 1: but you've got to remember that a doll decoy typically 1663 01:28:25,560 --> 01:28:29,200 Speaker 1: they'll circle to the tail end because they want to sniff, 1664 01:28:29,240 --> 01:28:33,519 Speaker 1: you know. Um. So I not really use a doll 1665 01:28:33,640 --> 01:28:39,840 Speaker 1: decoy much at all, um, But uh, I will tell 1666 01:28:39,880 --> 01:28:43,080 Speaker 1: you this too. I I queried North American White Toie 1667 01:28:43,120 --> 01:28:47,559 Speaker 1: Magazine for an article I'm writing for an early issue 1668 01:28:47,640 --> 01:28:51,960 Speaker 1: this year, and it's about early season hunting, of course. 1669 01:28:52,040 --> 01:28:56,559 Speaker 1: And I've killed two velvet bucks and another mature buck 1670 01:28:57,000 --> 01:29:01,320 Speaker 1: over a decoy in September. And one of the bucks, 1671 01:29:01,560 --> 01:29:03,240 Speaker 1: I'm looking at him here in my living room in 1672 01:29:03,280 --> 01:29:06,080 Speaker 1: another mount. He's a hundred and seventy in deer that 1673 01:29:06,479 --> 01:29:08,720 Speaker 1: without a decoy. It was September seven. I think I 1674 01:29:08,800 --> 01:29:11,120 Speaker 1: killed him. These deer were coming out to an eight 1675 01:29:11,240 --> 01:29:15,400 Speaker 1: acre alfalfa field and there were a dozen shooter bucks 1676 01:29:15,439 --> 01:29:17,200 Speaker 1: in the bunch, but they were all over that field 1677 01:29:17,200 --> 01:29:20,160 Speaker 1: and we watched a couple of evenings prior to the season, 1678 01:29:20,200 --> 01:29:23,080 Speaker 1: and it's like, how do we go bucks? We put 1679 01:29:23,120 --> 01:29:24,760 Speaker 1: a couple of round bales out there, had the rancher 1680 01:29:24,800 --> 01:29:26,400 Speaker 1: put a couple of round bales out and put a 1681 01:29:26,439 --> 01:29:29,760 Speaker 1: ground line in between them. We had deer all around us. 1682 01:29:29,760 --> 01:29:32,599 Speaker 1: Nothing came within range. So the next night I put 1683 01:29:32,640 --> 01:29:34,320 Speaker 1: up a buck decoy and this buck and four other 1684 01:29:34,400 --> 01:29:37,600 Speaker 1: bucks came out of a river bottom quarter mile away, 1685 01:29:37,600 --> 01:29:39,840 Speaker 1: came all the way across the prairie and some of 1686 01:29:39,880 --> 01:29:42,439 Speaker 1: the best forties we've ever laid down, and he came 1687 01:29:42,560 --> 01:29:44,439 Speaker 1: right to the decoy and I killed him. I mean, 1688 01:29:44,439 --> 01:29:48,599 Speaker 1: he's got seventeen scorable points, basic six by six main frame, 1689 01:29:49,240 --> 01:29:51,559 Speaker 1: just a brood of the deer. But the night before 1690 01:29:51,640 --> 01:29:54,200 Speaker 1: we saw him and he was challenging every buck that 1691 01:29:54,240 --> 01:29:57,120 Speaker 1: came into that field. This big deer would challenge. So 1692 01:29:57,160 --> 01:29:59,120 Speaker 1: the next night I had the decoy with us. So 1693 01:29:59,200 --> 01:30:01,720 Speaker 1: what's the scenario? And I think, I'm I'm picking up 1694 01:30:01,760 --> 01:30:04,080 Speaker 1: on what the scenarios, but but lay it out clearly. 1695 01:30:04,640 --> 01:30:07,559 Speaker 1: The scenario in which you would pull out a decoy 1696 01:30:07,680 --> 01:30:11,479 Speaker 1: in the early season. Um kind of Well, for one thing, 1697 01:30:11,840 --> 01:30:15,559 Speaker 1: that first evening we sat there marked we I noticed 1698 01:30:15,600 --> 01:30:18,960 Speaker 1: that they were not just that biggest buck. There was 1699 01:30:19,000 --> 01:30:20,920 Speaker 1: another big buck, and there were a couple other bucks 1700 01:30:20,960 --> 01:30:23,840 Speaker 1: that were big but built different. There was a lot 1701 01:30:23,880 --> 01:30:27,000 Speaker 1: of pecking order stuff. We sat there for two hours 1702 01:30:27,040 --> 01:30:30,280 Speaker 1: and watched because it's Montana and the deer out early. 1703 01:30:31,000 --> 01:30:33,080 Speaker 1: And I told Matt, my cameraman, I said, we come 1704 01:30:33,120 --> 01:30:35,800 Speaker 1: back here tomorrow evening. That decoy is gonna be up 1705 01:30:35,800 --> 01:30:38,320 Speaker 1: in this field. I said, they're getting this is there's 1706 01:30:38,320 --> 01:30:41,880 Speaker 1: a lot of stuff going on here. Um. The very 1707 01:30:41,920 --> 01:30:44,519 Speaker 1: first deer I killed for North American White Tailed Television 1708 01:30:44,520 --> 01:30:47,040 Speaker 1: back in two thousand three, it was a big velvet 1709 01:30:47,080 --> 01:30:50,880 Speaker 1: ten point Wyoming buck, and that deer came to a 1710 01:30:50,880 --> 01:30:54,280 Speaker 1: decoy I placed out And I'll tell you this story. 1711 01:30:54,600 --> 01:30:56,880 Speaker 1: I remember when we got to where we were going 1712 01:30:56,920 --> 01:30:59,920 Speaker 1: to be hunting in Wyoming, pat Reeve and Stan Pod, 1713 01:31:00,160 --> 01:31:03,360 Speaker 1: my co host, were already there. I started unloading my 1714 01:31:03,400 --> 01:31:05,040 Speaker 1: truck and I pulled that decoy out of the back 1715 01:31:05,040 --> 01:31:07,479 Speaker 1: of my truck. You you should have heard those guys 1716 01:31:07,600 --> 01:31:10,719 Speaker 1: laughing and giving the crash of having that. Miller brought 1717 01:31:10,720 --> 01:31:15,360 Speaker 1: a decoy. Miller bought a decoy along. I'm like, okay, 1718 01:31:15,800 --> 01:31:19,200 Speaker 1: ended up killing a big velvet ten point that in 1719 01:31:19,200 --> 01:31:21,200 Speaker 1: no way, shape or form would have walk within bull 1720 01:31:21,280 --> 01:31:23,720 Speaker 1: range of our tree had that decoy not been there, 1721 01:31:23,920 --> 01:31:27,000 Speaker 1: because he's just checking out the new guy. And the 1722 01:31:27,080 --> 01:31:29,960 Speaker 1: same with the box the big buck. Then you know 1723 01:31:30,080 --> 01:31:32,520 Speaker 1: when I killed him the second evening with the decoy, 1724 01:31:32,920 --> 01:31:34,439 Speaker 1: I don't know what he was going to do, but 1725 01:31:34,720 --> 01:31:36,559 Speaker 1: he was coming over to check out this new guy 1726 01:31:36,560 --> 01:31:39,920 Speaker 1: that he hadn't seen before. That's my opinion. I mean 1727 01:31:39,920 --> 01:31:42,559 Speaker 1: they look at a buck and go, who's that. I 1728 01:31:42,560 --> 01:31:46,439 Speaker 1: don't know him. It's a curiosity thing that time year, 1729 01:31:46,520 --> 01:31:49,040 Speaker 1: during the rut. They want to they want to simp it. Yeah. 1730 01:31:49,200 --> 01:31:51,919 Speaker 1: One of the things that I've noticed, and from listening 1731 01:31:51,960 --> 01:31:54,280 Speaker 1: and reading and talking to other people who've had even 1732 01:31:54,280 --> 01:31:57,040 Speaker 1: more experience of decoys than me, something you often hear 1733 01:31:57,080 --> 01:32:00,840 Speaker 1: about is the risk factor with decoys and that being 1734 01:32:01,360 --> 01:32:04,479 Speaker 1: sometimes does get really spooky about them. And so I've 1735 01:32:04,479 --> 01:32:06,760 Speaker 1: heard some people talk about and I've tried to keep 1736 01:32:06,800 --> 01:32:09,960 Speaker 1: this in mind when I decoy, about employing a decoy 1737 01:32:10,000 --> 01:32:11,760 Speaker 1: in an area where you're not gonna have tons and 1738 01:32:11,760 --> 01:32:14,160 Speaker 1: tons of doughs, Like the best case scenario seems to 1739 01:32:14,160 --> 01:32:16,640 Speaker 1: be an area that maybe as a lower deer density, 1740 01:32:16,680 --> 01:32:18,840 Speaker 1: so you're not gonna have sixty doughs out in the 1741 01:32:18,880 --> 01:32:21,080 Speaker 1: field and then have your decoy and have every group 1742 01:32:21,080 --> 01:32:24,000 Speaker 1: of doughs come by and spook and blow. Um. Is 1743 01:32:24,040 --> 01:32:25,920 Speaker 1: that something you've seen as well? Or do you not 1744 01:32:25,960 --> 01:32:30,000 Speaker 1: worry about does and you you're putting that decoy up regardless. Well, 1745 01:32:30,240 --> 01:32:32,479 Speaker 1: I will tell you this, this Montana hunt I related 1746 01:32:32,520 --> 01:32:36,240 Speaker 1: to you with this hundred and seventy inch deer. There 1747 01:32:36,280 --> 01:32:40,360 Speaker 1: were sixty seventy deer in that field before those. I mean, 1748 01:32:40,800 --> 01:32:43,719 Speaker 1: there were so many doughs. One thing I've noticed about 1749 01:32:43,800 --> 01:32:50,120 Speaker 1: decoy consistently and does is dose don't like other doughs. 1750 01:32:50,400 --> 01:32:53,639 Speaker 1: I never use my decoy as a doll, and I've 1751 01:32:53,680 --> 01:32:56,439 Speaker 1: seen that be consistent regardless of the time of the season. 1752 01:32:56,479 --> 01:33:00,400 Speaker 1: If it's early season pre rut rut does don't like 1753 01:33:00,479 --> 01:33:03,600 Speaker 1: other doughs and they're suspicious of them. I don't know 1754 01:33:03,640 --> 01:33:07,280 Speaker 1: what it is, but I've used the decoys. I can't 1755 01:33:07,320 --> 01:33:11,679 Speaker 1: tell you the last time that I had a set 1756 01:33:11,760 --> 01:33:15,640 Speaker 1: up room because a deer turned inside out because of 1757 01:33:15,680 --> 01:33:18,640 Speaker 1: my decoy. I really can't mark. I you know, I 1758 01:33:18,680 --> 01:33:21,040 Speaker 1: hear these things. But I know people think they got 1759 01:33:21,040 --> 01:33:23,320 Speaker 1: stuf figured out, and maybe they want to use it 1760 01:33:23,360 --> 01:33:26,599 Speaker 1: as a doll. But I strongly encourage people that if 1761 01:33:26,600 --> 01:33:30,000 Speaker 1: they're going to use a decoy, strongly consider using it 1762 01:33:30,040 --> 01:33:33,160 Speaker 1: as a buck. It seems they be a lot lower 1763 01:33:33,200 --> 01:33:35,280 Speaker 1: impact on the behavior of the deer than than a 1764 01:33:35,360 --> 01:33:37,840 Speaker 1: dough decoy. And I don't know what that's about, but 1765 01:33:37,920 --> 01:33:40,960 Speaker 1: I do know that those mature dolls don't like other 1766 01:33:41,000 --> 01:33:43,280 Speaker 1: mature dolls, and that's what that thing looks like. And 1767 01:33:43,280 --> 01:33:46,120 Speaker 1: it's not doing anything. It's not moving, it's not acknowledging them, 1768 01:33:46,120 --> 01:33:48,559 Speaker 1: and then they get suspicious, and then they get angry, 1769 01:33:48,600 --> 01:33:51,519 Speaker 1: and then they get suspicious again. So that's just been 1770 01:33:51,520 --> 01:33:53,880 Speaker 1: my experience. But I've been decoying, like I said, since 1771 01:33:55,160 --> 01:33:58,599 Speaker 1: oh gosh, you're early nineties, a long time. It's something 1772 01:33:58,640 --> 01:34:02,479 Speaker 1: I want to try, or I've always been afraid to 1773 01:34:03,000 --> 01:34:06,280 Speaker 1: do it. I've been pretty conservative when it comes to decoys, Um, 1774 01:34:06,320 --> 01:34:08,479 Speaker 1: but I have. I have once decoyed one and had 1775 01:34:08,479 --> 01:34:11,120 Speaker 1: a really cool hunt and killed one and have wanted 1776 01:34:11,160 --> 01:34:13,880 Speaker 1: to try it more and more. Um do you do 1777 01:34:13,920 --> 01:34:16,840 Speaker 1: you do anything unique to the decoy? I know some 1778 01:34:16,880 --> 01:34:19,160 Speaker 1: people put scent on them. Some people will put a 1779 01:34:19,240 --> 01:34:22,120 Speaker 1: little white handkerchief for something on the tail. So there's 1780 01:34:22,120 --> 01:34:25,080 Speaker 1: a little flick in the wind. Um. Some people take 1781 01:34:25,120 --> 01:34:28,200 Speaker 1: one antler off. I've done that. Sometimes do one antler buck. 1782 01:34:28,920 --> 01:34:31,160 Speaker 1: Anything that you do with your decoy that's unique or 1783 01:34:31,200 --> 01:34:33,280 Speaker 1: just standards, throw out throw out a small buck to 1784 01:34:33,320 --> 01:34:36,120 Speaker 1: your regular buck decoy and let her go. Yeah, I 1785 01:34:36,200 --> 01:34:39,840 Speaker 1: use the carry light. And um, there's there's some you know, 1786 01:34:40,000 --> 01:34:43,000 Speaker 1: because I I used to work with those people, and 1787 01:34:43,080 --> 01:34:44,680 Speaker 1: you know, I've got three or four of them. But 1788 01:34:44,720 --> 01:34:46,600 Speaker 1: there are some other really good decoys out there. But 1789 01:34:46,640 --> 01:34:51,400 Speaker 1: I runned as the buck. The other thing is people 1790 01:34:51,400 --> 01:34:53,280 Speaker 1: tell me something's got to be moving on that thing, 1791 01:34:53,680 --> 01:34:57,400 Speaker 1: and I tell them, well, you know how many years experienced, 1792 01:34:57,439 --> 01:35:00,080 Speaker 1: twenty years experience. We're using decoys. It tells me of 1793 01:35:00,160 --> 01:35:03,200 Speaker 1: that the less it moves, the more it seems to 1794 01:35:03,320 --> 01:35:06,599 Speaker 1: irritate him, especially a buck, that whatever he does, this 1795 01:35:06,600 --> 01:35:09,080 Speaker 1: thing won't even acknowledge him. And finally it's like, I'm 1796 01:35:09,120 --> 01:35:11,559 Speaker 1: coming over there to thump you. You won't even acknowledge 1797 01:35:11,560 --> 01:35:13,439 Speaker 1: my existence. I'm coming over there to check you out. 1798 01:35:14,439 --> 01:35:17,720 Speaker 1: Now about the putting something on the tail? You know, 1799 01:35:17,840 --> 01:35:21,160 Speaker 1: deer grow up as babies. They grow up following mama 1800 01:35:21,600 --> 01:35:26,080 Speaker 1: watching her tail. How many flicks mean danger? How many 1801 01:35:26,080 --> 01:35:29,680 Speaker 1: flicks mean everything's cool. I don't know. You don't know, 1802 01:35:30,680 --> 01:35:34,479 Speaker 1: so putting something that moves in the wind on their 1803 01:35:34,520 --> 01:35:37,679 Speaker 1: on their butt, as you know, I've heard of people. 1804 01:35:38,160 --> 01:35:40,120 Speaker 1: You know, one guy told me he had a big 1805 01:35:40,120 --> 01:35:42,519 Speaker 1: buck coming in. This has been years ago, and he 1806 01:35:42,600 --> 01:35:46,320 Speaker 1: had he had a white hanky or some tissue or 1807 01:35:46,360 --> 01:35:50,679 Speaker 1: something that taped on this decoy's butt, and the first 1808 01:35:50,720 --> 01:35:52,240 Speaker 1: time it moved in the wind, the buck kind of 1809 01:35:52,240 --> 01:35:54,400 Speaker 1: looked at it and then continued to come in. And 1810 01:35:54,439 --> 01:35:57,240 Speaker 1: then it started to really blow and flick. That buck 1811 01:35:57,280 --> 01:36:00,479 Speaker 1: looked at it, turn and trotted off. So I don't 1812 01:36:00,479 --> 01:36:05,719 Speaker 1: know how many flicks mean everything's cool. Um, there's something wrong. 1813 01:36:06,200 --> 01:36:08,439 Speaker 1: So I'm not gonna have anything on that decoy that 1814 01:36:08,600 --> 01:36:12,040 Speaker 1: I can't control that might mean this or it might 1815 01:36:12,080 --> 01:36:15,200 Speaker 1: mean that. And that's just my opinion. I you know, 1816 01:36:15,240 --> 01:36:16,960 Speaker 1: I've been doing this long time, like I said, with 1817 01:36:17,000 --> 01:36:23,360 Speaker 1: the decoys, but um, they grew up watching walking behind Mama, 1818 01:36:23,520 --> 01:36:27,120 Speaker 1: watching her tail. Those those flicks means something, but we 1819 01:36:27,160 --> 01:36:29,400 Speaker 1: don't know what that is. Yeah, it's a good point. 1820 01:36:29,479 --> 01:36:32,760 Speaker 1: It's a good point. Well, uh, Greg, this is this 1821 01:36:32,800 --> 01:36:34,840 Speaker 1: has been a lot of fun. I've I've been talking 1822 01:36:34,880 --> 01:36:36,559 Speaker 1: your ear off here now, so I want to let 1823 01:36:36,560 --> 01:36:39,280 Speaker 1: you get to the rest of your day. UM, I 1824 01:36:39,280 --> 01:36:41,160 Speaker 1: guess I would. I would ask you one last thing 1825 01:36:41,280 --> 01:36:45,000 Speaker 1: or one and a half last things. Um. Number one, 1826 01:36:45,640 --> 01:36:48,559 Speaker 1: is there anywhere you could direct people if they want 1827 01:36:48,600 --> 01:36:51,759 Speaker 1: to learn more from you or pick up your books 1828 01:36:51,920 --> 01:36:53,920 Speaker 1: or anything that can you tell folks where to find 1829 01:36:54,000 --> 01:36:57,599 Speaker 1: more Greg Miller resources? And then number two, are there 1830 01:36:57,640 --> 01:37:00,639 Speaker 1: any other resources out there that you would wreck amendo folks, 1831 01:37:00,640 --> 01:37:04,760 Speaker 1: whether it be a book, a show, a person, I 1832 01:37:04,760 --> 01:37:07,720 Speaker 1: don't know. I always I'm interested in other folks recommendations 1833 01:37:07,760 --> 01:37:10,600 Speaker 1: for where you would turn to to learn more or 1834 01:37:10,720 --> 01:37:13,799 Speaker 1: to to get more of this kind of stuff. Well, 1835 01:37:14,200 --> 01:37:18,040 Speaker 1: unfortunately all my books are out of print. But on 1836 01:37:18,080 --> 01:37:22,320 Speaker 1: a positive note, my son Jake is who is you 1837 01:37:22,360 --> 01:37:25,559 Speaker 1: know my business partner was and still there is actually 1838 01:37:26,040 --> 01:37:27,759 Speaker 1: you know, we're just going in a different different direction 1839 01:37:27,760 --> 01:37:31,960 Speaker 1: with our production company. But we're we're probably in the 1840 01:37:32,000 --> 01:37:35,200 Speaker 1: process of not probably, we're in the process of getting 1841 01:37:35,840 --> 01:37:38,800 Speaker 1: my third book, rub Line Secrets, which was my best 1842 01:37:38,840 --> 01:37:42,000 Speaker 1: seller of all We're gonna have that redone in hardcover, 1843 01:37:42,320 --> 01:37:46,400 Speaker 1: So I don't know the timeline on that. UM. I'll 1844 01:37:46,439 --> 01:37:51,240 Speaker 1: be doing seminars at the Ohio Deer and Turkey expou 1845 01:37:51,760 --> 01:37:54,800 Speaker 1: the third weekend in March and at the Wisconsin Deer 1846 01:37:54,800 --> 01:37:57,400 Speaker 1: and Turkey Expo in Madison. I think it's the first 1847 01:37:57,479 --> 01:38:00,280 Speaker 1: or second weekend in April. People could hook up with 1848 01:38:00,360 --> 01:38:04,240 Speaker 1: me there and I can give them more details. Um, 1849 01:38:04,280 --> 01:38:08,240 Speaker 1: but as far as anything interesting, you know, I would 1850 01:38:08,280 --> 01:38:11,240 Speaker 1: say that I'm really happy to be you know, as 1851 01:38:11,400 --> 01:38:14,679 Speaker 1: as far as you know going forward, I'm really I'm 1852 01:38:14,720 --> 01:38:19,759 Speaker 1: really happy and uh that I'm back with North American 1853 01:38:19,760 --> 01:38:22,760 Speaker 1: White Tailed Television because you know, as far as the 1854 01:38:22,840 --> 01:38:26,160 Speaker 1: visual medium, that's kind of where I got not kind 1855 01:38:26,160 --> 01:38:28,120 Speaker 1: of that's where I got my start, you know, and 1856 01:38:28,160 --> 01:38:30,360 Speaker 1: then blossomed into my own television show and all that. 1857 01:38:30,479 --> 01:38:35,080 Speaker 1: So I'm glad to be back with him. And Gordon Whittington, 1858 01:38:35,160 --> 01:38:37,519 Speaker 1: like I said, bought my very first magazine article way 1859 01:38:37,560 --> 01:38:41,599 Speaker 1: back in and he's the editor of North American White 1860 01:38:41,600 --> 01:38:44,000 Speaker 1: Tail to this day. So it's great to be back 1861 01:38:44,040 --> 01:38:48,360 Speaker 1: working with those guys. Yeah, that's great. They they're one 1862 01:38:48,360 --> 01:38:50,760 Speaker 1: of the first magazines I was able to publish an 1863 01:38:50,800 --> 01:38:54,639 Speaker 1: aricle and too, so I have some some strong positive 1864 01:38:54,640 --> 01:38:59,559 Speaker 1: associations with what they've been doing as well. So good stuff. Yeah, 1865 01:38:59,680 --> 01:39:01,360 Speaker 1: you know, and they're they're a good group to work 1866 01:39:01,360 --> 01:39:04,599 Speaker 1: with her. You know. It's I know the print medium 1867 01:39:04,640 --> 01:39:08,360 Speaker 1: was kind of had some hard times lately, but it's 1868 01:39:08,400 --> 01:39:11,679 Speaker 1: good to know that, you know that they're still buy 1869 01:39:11,680 --> 01:39:15,000 Speaker 1: in the North American White Tail magazines and reading him 1870 01:39:15,040 --> 01:39:18,240 Speaker 1: because that's I mean, there's a lot of online stuff, 1871 01:39:18,240 --> 01:39:20,000 Speaker 1: but it's it's great, you know, because I got ink 1872 01:39:20,040 --> 01:39:22,880 Speaker 1: in my veins. I've been a journalist for a long 1873 01:39:22,920 --> 01:39:27,320 Speaker 1: time and it's that that that thing doesn't go away. Yeah, 1874 01:39:27,600 --> 01:39:29,519 Speaker 1: I still love having the physical copy as well. I 1875 01:39:29,560 --> 01:39:31,280 Speaker 1: got a stack of him sitting right next to me. 1876 01:39:31,880 --> 01:39:33,479 Speaker 1: I can put my hands on him right now, right 1877 01:39:33,479 --> 01:39:35,519 Speaker 1: next to me, So it's still nice to be open 1878 01:39:35,560 --> 01:39:38,599 Speaker 1: the page. So I'm sitting here at my my favorite 1879 01:39:38,600 --> 01:39:40,080 Speaker 1: spot on the coach, and I got a whole stack 1880 01:39:40,160 --> 01:39:42,400 Speaker 1: up on my own table here. The coolest thing for 1881 01:39:42,439 --> 01:39:44,519 Speaker 1: me right now, Greg is I've got a two year 1882 01:39:44,560 --> 01:39:48,240 Speaker 1: old son, and every morning now he gets up in 1883 01:39:48,280 --> 01:39:50,040 Speaker 1: the morning and when he's laying there in bed, he 1884 01:39:50,120 --> 01:39:52,639 Speaker 1: just starts saying Mama, dada, Mama, dada, And then eventually 1885 01:39:52,640 --> 01:39:55,360 Speaker 1: I'll get up and go grab him. And the first 1886 01:39:55,360 --> 01:39:57,559 Speaker 1: thing I want to do is he will run to 1887 01:39:57,600 --> 01:40:00,479 Speaker 1: the couch and he will grab a magazine in off 1888 01:40:00,520 --> 01:40:04,720 Speaker 1: of the coffee table next to the couch, and it's 1889 01:40:04,760 --> 01:40:07,400 Speaker 1: always a deer hunting magazine, so it's usually North American 1890 01:40:07,400 --> 01:40:10,400 Speaker 1: White tailor Peterson's Bow Hunting or something like that Bow 1891 01:40:10,479 --> 01:40:13,439 Speaker 1: Hunter magazine, and he'll grab it and he'll make me 1892 01:40:13,560 --> 01:40:15,320 Speaker 1: flip through the pages with him, and he points at 1893 01:40:15,320 --> 01:40:19,080 Speaker 1: everything and sometimes I'll say, oh, let's say big buck, 1894 01:40:19,240 --> 01:40:21,679 Speaker 1: or he'll grunt when he sees a picture. And that's 1895 01:40:21,760 --> 01:40:24,120 Speaker 1: that's how my days start right now. And uh, that's 1896 01:40:24,120 --> 01:40:26,080 Speaker 1: about as cool as it gets. And it wouldn't happen 1897 01:40:26,080 --> 01:40:29,679 Speaker 1: if we didn't have real deer hunting magazine still, so 1898 01:40:30,120 --> 01:40:36,799 Speaker 1: they're pretty special cool. It is the coolest. Yes, well, Greg, 1899 01:40:36,960 --> 01:40:40,080 Speaker 1: I just want to thank you again and um please 1900 01:40:40,320 --> 01:40:42,760 Speaker 1: please stay in touch and if if we ever can 1901 01:40:42,760 --> 01:40:44,360 Speaker 1: convince you to come back, I'd love to chat with 1902 01:40:44,439 --> 01:40:48,200 Speaker 1: you more. Yeah, that's not a problem I got. I 1903 01:40:48,240 --> 01:40:50,519 Speaker 1: got way more time to do stuff like this now 1904 01:40:50,560 --> 01:40:53,200 Speaker 1: than I did when I was running and gunning thirteen 1905 01:40:53,280 --> 01:40:57,559 Speaker 1: different states in four weeks, so yeah, I hear you. Well, 1906 01:40:57,920 --> 01:41:00,400 Speaker 1: thank you again, Greg, and best of luck with your 1907 01:41:00,400 --> 01:41:05,559 Speaker 1: offseason scouting and coming up into the season. And that 1908 01:41:05,720 --> 01:41:08,639 Speaker 1: is a rap. Big thank you to everyone out there 1909 01:41:08,680 --> 01:41:12,200 Speaker 1: for tuning in. Hope you enjoyed this one. Stay tuned 1910 01:41:12,240 --> 01:41:15,679 Speaker 1: for much more to come with the podcast. Stay tuned 1911 01:41:15,680 --> 01:41:19,280 Speaker 1: with the back forty season two show coming back at 1912 01:41:19,280 --> 01:41:22,000 Speaker 1: you later this year, and make sure you found Wired 1913 01:41:22,080 --> 01:41:25,000 Speaker 1: Hunt over on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter for all of 1914 01:41:25,040 --> 01:41:28,360 Speaker 1: my live updates throughout the week, throughout my life. All 1915 01:41:28,360 --> 01:41:30,200 Speaker 1: the interesting things I'm doing that maybe I don't get 1916 01:41:30,240 --> 01:41:32,760 Speaker 1: to share here in the podcast, they're covered there, so 1917 01:41:32,840 --> 01:41:35,679 Speaker 1: check it out. Good luck outside and you're scouting efforts, 1918 01:41:35,680 --> 01:41:38,040 Speaker 1: your trash cleanup efforts, you're shed hunting, whatever it is 1919 01:41:38,080 --> 01:41:41,439 Speaker 1: you're up to right now, enjoy it. Thanks for being 1920 01:41:41,439 --> 01:41:44,479 Speaker 1: a part of this community, and until next time, stay 1921 01:41:45,160 --> 01:41:46,599 Speaker 1: Wired to Hunt.