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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the Bloomberg Business of Sports podcast,

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Speaker 1: where we explore some of the big old money issues

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Speaker 1: in the world of sports.

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Speaker 2: I'm Michael Barr, I'm Scarlet Foo and Don de Minsasa.

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Speaker 1: See the regular cruise back all together.

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Speaker 2: Again, Back together Yay.

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Speaker 1: The band got back together. And you know what, and

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Speaker 1: it's great to have an old friend of the show

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Speaker 1: that comes back in Noel Lamontage. He is the director

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Speaker 1: of Verdense Capital Advisors. You are just like an old

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Speaker 1: friend and we can just you know, sop you up

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Speaker 1: man with biscuits and gravy. Man, how you doing. Welcome

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Speaker 1: to the Bloomberg Business of Sports.

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Speaker 3: My man. I'm doing well and love love being a

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Speaker 3: regular and love coming back on the show. So thank

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Speaker 3: you all for finding some time for me.

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Speaker 1: I don't know where to start, so I guess I'm

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Speaker 1: going to start with the most obvious. You know, the

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Speaker 1: draft is coming up April twenty seventh through the twenty ninth.

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Speaker 1: What should be what should we be watching for? And

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Speaker 1: any players out there? And it's like, dude's going he's

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Speaker 1: going to go and he could go number one.

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Speaker 3: Man. You know it's funny. I haven't even really are

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Speaker 3: there storylines surrounding the draft, But then you know, is

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Speaker 3: the NFL does the NFL just exists kind of like

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Speaker 3: Elon Musk nonstuff on Twitter and every social media feed,

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Speaker 3: you know. I think the I think the biggest storyline

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Speaker 3: as it pertains to the draft is you had that

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Speaker 3: that what I'll call a blockbuster trade given what they've

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Speaker 3: got for the first overall pick in Chicago, shifting control

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Speaker 3: of the draft to Carolina. And I think the big

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Speaker 3: question just boils down to what is Carolina's plan with that,

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Speaker 3: with that number one overall draft pick? And when you

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Speaker 3: give up that much capital over years, you know, multiple

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Speaker 3: drafts to another team in order to get that pick,

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Speaker 3: it's a really difficult thing to withh On, I mean,

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Speaker 3: you have to get the guy that you want, the

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Speaker 3: guy that you've you know, scouted and determined is worthy

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Speaker 3: of that number one pick. And really that storyline becomes

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Speaker 3: is the smoke screen about you know, that number one

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Speaker 3: pick is now available from Carolina for somebody to trade

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Speaker 3: up and grab. Is there really a player that warrants

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Speaker 3: that kind of a you know, almost like a double

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Speaker 3: blockbuster trade from from one team to another and then

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Speaker 3: that team to another team, or is there a player

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Speaker 3: at the top of the draft that these teams value

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Speaker 3: that much and covert that much that they'd give up

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Speaker 3: all that draft capital for. And typically when there is,

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Speaker 3: it's a quarterback. So you know, whether it's the Florida

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Speaker 3: quarterback or the Alabama quarterback. I think that's really the

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Speaker 3: big storyline.

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Speaker 4: Okay, So when it comes to what you do at Verdants,

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Speaker 4: I'm curious because obviously you've been working with a lot

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Speaker 4: of young players as they come into large sums of

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Speaker 4: money for a while now. But what's different, of course,

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Speaker 4: is that with name, image and likeness, these young athletes,

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Speaker 4: these young professional athletes now have experience with building wealth

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Speaker 4: early on and managing it to some extent. How is

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Speaker 4: it different now guiding them through financial planning versus say,

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Speaker 4: five years ago.

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Speaker 3: Oh it is, it's not. It's night and day. It's

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Speaker 3: not even comparable. And one thing, one thing that I'll

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Speaker 3: say alongside your statement is you hope that they're getting

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Speaker 3: some level of education, some level of guidance. Unfortunately, what

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Speaker 3: we're seeing is that that's not happening. You do have

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Speaker 3: athletes coming into sums of money that they wouldn't have before.

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Speaker 3: But what they're not getting is they're not understanding the

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Speaker 3: tax ramifications of ten ninety nine income. They're not understanding

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Speaker 3: how to put together deductions. I mean, it's tax it's

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Speaker 3: tax time right now. So that's a that's a topic

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Speaker 3: that's on a lot of people's minds, whether it be

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Speaker 3: for good reasons or bad reasons. You know, it's it's

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Speaker 3: not just the money, it's the ramifications of the money.

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Speaker 3: And for us, we've had to really build a foundation

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Speaker 3: that's just based on complete transparency, honesty, helping them understand

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Speaker 3: the value of that money at their age and realize

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Speaker 3: that there's going to be aspects that you can plan

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Speaker 3: for the future. There's got to be budgeting for the now,

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Speaker 3: but really helping them understand the power of that money

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Speaker 3: and what it gives them the ability to do. And

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Speaker 3: to your point, how that carries forward, is it gives

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Speaker 3: these young athletes another option. Do they have to go

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Speaker 3: pro or does college offer them a way to maybe

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Speaker 3: finish their education, get their degree and also earn good

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Speaker 3: money and not have to go into the professional ranks

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Speaker 3: in order to in order to make ends meet, or

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Speaker 3: take care of their family, or get out of a

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Speaker 3: bad situation or whatever the case may be.

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Speaker 2: You know, no, I mean when we talk about Verde's

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Speaker 2: pro which is, you know, your wealth advisory business for

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Speaker 2: athletes and entertainer specifically, we talk about life skills training,

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Speaker 2: we talk about financial health assessment, budget and cash flow design,

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Speaker 2: all the things that you do. But a big part

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Speaker 2: of what Verdence is they're really no cio, right, and

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Speaker 2: they're very very focused on, you know, investment management. And

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Speaker 2: you know, I mean, I'm a reader of Megan Horneman,

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Speaker 2: your CIO, and what she puts out her market commentaries,

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Speaker 2: you know, her white papers on bitcoin and bubbles and

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Speaker 2: things like that. When you're talking to athletes today, you know,

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Speaker 2: what are they asking you about? I mean, are they

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Speaker 2: asking about bonds and stocks or are they asking about

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Speaker 2: bitcoin and bubbles? I'm just curious what you're seeing on

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Speaker 2: your side.

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Speaker 3: We want to get them to that point. We want

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Speaker 3: to get them to that point. Our perspective, honestly is

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Speaker 3: that when our core business was built upon entrepreneurs and

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Speaker 3: very wealthy, very wealthy business owners who are going through

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Speaker 3: exits or families and transitions of wealth and all those

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Speaker 3: sorts of those sorts of individuals, you want athletes to

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Speaker 3: think and behave the same way that those types of

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Speaker 3: individuals do when it comes to their wealth. You know,

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Speaker 3: they may be younger, they may be coming into varying

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Speaker 3: degrees of lump sums. Those are liquidity events. That's the

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Speaker 3: way that we look at it. So we want a

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Speaker 3: professional football player, for instance, to manage their wealth the

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Speaker 3: same way that the owner of that football team that

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Speaker 3: they're playing for does. Why can't they have access to

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Speaker 3: the same types of investment opportunities when appropriate. Why can't

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Speaker 3: they have access to the same type of guidance and

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Speaker 3: strategy and planning. That level of expertise is accessible. It

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Speaker 3: should be accessible to anybody who's willing to seek it

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Speaker 3: out and willing to understand that it exists. It shouldn't

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Speaker 3: just be for the super wealthy and in the Verden's

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Speaker 3: pro space. That's what we've really worked very hard to

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Speaker 3: do is transition the mindset of athletes to think and

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Speaker 3: to function financially the same way that the people that

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Speaker 3: own the teams that they're playing for are operating.

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Speaker 1: On the other side, I mean, obviously NFL player is

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Speaker 1: that's your wheelhouse, but it's not just NFL players. The

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Speaker 1: baseball draft is just a few months away. I haven't

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Speaker 1: even finished all my Halloween candy and it's coming right

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Speaker 1: around the corner. We got there's a brand new minor

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Speaker 1: league MLB tentative deal, and it really kind of changed

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Speaker 1: the landscape for minor league athletes. Can you talk us

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Speaker 1: through that and what impact that has not only for

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Speaker 1: baseball but for all sports.

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Speaker 3: Well, what it's doing is I would probably say, you know,

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Speaker 3: maybe professional soccer, basketball certainly has has several levels, but

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Speaker 3: I think I think professional baseball is the most extensive

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Speaker 3: minor league developmental system outside of the you know, the

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Speaker 3: big show in the Major League Baseball. That being said,

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Speaker 3: the amount of time that that farm system has existed

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Speaker 3: with really very little oversight and guidance. And it's not

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Speaker 3: so much about the unionization concept and should they or

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Speaker 3: shouldn't they, it's just really that system has been languishing

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Speaker 3: without a tremendous amount of resources short of if if

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Speaker 3: this team wants to put a little bit more into

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Speaker 3: their farm system, they do it. If this team doesn't,

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Speaker 3: they don't have to do it. Now there's at least

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Speaker 3: a standardization of that. There's a base level that everybody

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Speaker 3: has to come to. There's responsibilities that these teams have

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Speaker 3: in terms of taking care of its players. And listen,

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Speaker 3: major League Baseball is it's it's one of the Big four.

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Speaker 3: I mean, there's a lot of money flowing through that sport.

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Speaker 3: There's no reason that these players at the early levels

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Speaker 3: of that game shouldn't reap some of the rewards. They

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Speaker 3: go through the draft and then you never hear from

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Speaker 3: them again until they until they make it to the

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Speaker 3: major leagues. Well what about if they have the resources

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Speaker 3: to develop themselves. These teams put more more money and

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Speaker 3: access into the developmental process for these players and actually

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Speaker 3: have skin in the game. I think it's going to

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Speaker 3: have a monumental shift in terms of the hit rate

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Speaker 3: and the ability of these players to develop and become

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Speaker 3: major leaguers. And I think other sports franchises are going

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Speaker 3: to have to look at the model and determine, you know,

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Speaker 3: how can we how can we plug into something similar

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Speaker 3: and make this work for us given our overall structure.

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Speaker 3: You know, I think that that's going to be really

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Speaker 3: to trickle down as a lot of people are going

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Speaker 3: to watch this and see what they can glean from

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Speaker 3: it and plug into their own systems, you know.

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Speaker 4: Staying with baseball. We've noticed in the last couple of

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Speaker 4: years there have been a lot more long term contracts

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Speaker 4: that players sign with different teams. And I know that

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Speaker 4: that's something that the players work out with their agents.

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Speaker 4: But from a financial advisory perspective, how do you advise

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Speaker 4: players who might be tempted to enter these long term contracts,

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Speaker 4: especially from the team's perspective, where in an inflationary environment

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Speaker 4: it's to their benefit, but for the players themselves it

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Speaker 4: might not be.

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Speaker 3: Well, it's it's really into visualized for us. You have

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Speaker 3: to you have to sit down and you have to

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Speaker 3: talk to the player. In this case, you have to

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Speaker 3: you have to find out what their goals are, what

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Speaker 3: their aspirations are, what they're trying to do with that money,

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Speaker 3: and you also have to give them a clear picture

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Speaker 3: of what that cash flow looks like over time, what

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Speaker 3: the growth could look like over time. Conservatively, you know,

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Speaker 3: based on their tolerances, based on their investment style and

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Speaker 3: their individual strategy, how much power can they build from

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Speaker 3: that contract, whether it be you know a Bobby Nia

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Speaker 3: who is still being paid by the Mets, I don't know,

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Speaker 3: thirty years after he finished playing for them. You know,

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Speaker 3: some of these some of these long term contracts, they're

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Speaker 3: designed to protect the player as much as they're designed to,

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Speaker 3: you know, to transfer that that wealth or give that

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Speaker 3: player the opportunity to build wealth, because that long term

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Speaker 3: structure can prevent somebody from doing something bad so long

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Speaker 3: as it's planned the right way versus a shorter term

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Speaker 3: deal where you might get a lump sum and then

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Speaker 3: you get back to the table. What if you never

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Speaker 3: get back to the table. What if something happens in

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Speaker 3: the interim. So I think it really does boil down

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Speaker 3: to the individual and you have to have that conversation

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Speaker 3: that has to be very personal. It's the same thing

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Speaker 3: when you sit down and speak with somebody about selling

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Speaker 3: their business. When's the right time? What multiple is enough

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Speaker 3: where this makes sense for you and this is going

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Speaker 3: to allow you to do what you want to do

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Speaker 3: with the company that you've built and the proceeds from

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Speaker 3: selling the company that you built. So again it's that

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Speaker 3: shift of perspective of Okay, I'm just an athlete who's

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Speaker 3: getting paid versus I'm a business owner who is working

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Speaker 3: very hard to put myself in position to generate wealth

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Speaker 3: that can carry forward for myself and my family. For

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Speaker 3: a very very long time.

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Speaker 4: How early in that conversation are you in versus the agent.

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Speaker 3: It depends on the relationship with the client a lot

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Speaker 3: more the client is talking to and we'll honestly will

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Speaker 3: help the agent work through the process of understanding what

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Speaker 3: those numbers can do. You know, an agent might look

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Speaker 3: at it and say, well, this is a this is

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Speaker 3: a really really good deal and want to present it

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Speaker 3: to the client, and the client may say, no, I

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Speaker 3: want more, I want more. If you can help the

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Speaker 3: client understand the power of that money in the moment,

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Speaker 3: then you can sometimes assist the agent to help them

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Speaker 3: close a very very good deal just by helping to

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Speaker 3: show the client from a different direction, Hey, you're the

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Speaker 3: you're the fifth highest paid wide receiver in the league,

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Speaker 3: in the NFL, this is what your contract looks like.

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Speaker 3: I know you want to be number one, but understand

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Speaker 3: how much this value can do for you over time.

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Speaker 3: So it's a it's a partnership in a lot of ways.

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Speaker 3: Whenever we're able to you know, we're certainly not working

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Speaker 3: against any of those any of those folks in that

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Speaker 3: space and value value their knowledge and experience, so we

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Speaker 3: want to work with them whenever we can no no.

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Speaker 2: So, you know, the world has changed a lot, you know,

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Speaker 2: since COVID, since twenty nineteen. You know, when I think

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Speaker 2: of wealth managers and I think of rias and investment

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Speaker 2: advisors and the like. You know, it's a very personal,

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Speaker 2: it's very you know, face to face oriented business. But

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Speaker 2: that's obviously changed in the last few years. I was wondering,

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Speaker 2: what are you seeing now, you know now that it

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Speaker 2: seems like, you know, the economy's reopen, that people are

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Speaker 2: traveling again, you know, mobility is back. You know, are

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Speaker 2: you getting out there? Are you getting in front of clients?

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Speaker 2: Are you? I mean, I know Vernon's is primarily based

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Speaker 2: in Alexandria, Virginia. I mean, are you spending a lot

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Speaker 2: of time traveling, going and visiting all your clients that

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Speaker 2: you haven't seen for the past few years, or have

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Speaker 2: you seen them and been traveling all the way through?

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Speaker 1: You know, we have.

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Speaker 3: Been traveling, you know, when when appropriate and when capable,

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Speaker 3: We've been traveling all the way through. We just have

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Speaker 3: a very personal, intimate relationship with the vast majority of

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Speaker 3: our clients. However, I would say that you know, as

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Speaker 3: things opened up, it definitely has shifted back to a

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Speaker 3: more in person type of type of an approach. I

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Speaker 3: think clients and prospects in general, when they're talking about

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Speaker 3: their their personal their assets, their personal wealth, their individual situations,

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Speaker 3: they really feel more comfortable doing it face to face.

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Speaker 3: You know, there's just a there's a person, there's a

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Speaker 3: there's something that's lost over zoom. It's no offense to

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Speaker 3: zoom and teams and all these wonderful devices and technology

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Speaker 3: that we were all able to save a lot of

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Speaker 3: businesses over the course of the pandemic and the shutdowns.

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Speaker 3: But at the same time, there's just no substitution for that,

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Speaker 3: you know, that in person moment. So we've definitely seen

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Speaker 3: that shift come back. You know, we've we've done our

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Speaker 3: best to maintain some level of connection over the course regardless.

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Speaker 3: And you know, some people are are comfortable with it,

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Speaker 3: some people aren't. But I would say that it's it's

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Speaker 3: created a new tool for a lot of businesses that

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Speaker 3: didn't necessarily realize the virtual meeting, the power of the

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Speaker 3: virtual meeting.

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Speaker 2: But you know, no, also, I just I have to

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Speaker 2: ask this question, you know, I mean, given an il

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Speaker 2: and you know, we talked about a little bit earlier.

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Speaker 2: How much of your time is spent in sourcing new

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Speaker 2: business from college athletes? Is that even an area that

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Speaker 2: you're focused on or not as much, it's.

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Speaker 3: A lot more through For us, it's a lot more

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Speaker 3: through referral. You know, we we know or work with

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Speaker 3: somebody who you know, fits our type of our type

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Speaker 3: of demographic, the type of client that we're searching for.

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Speaker 3: Who is somebody who's very inquisitive, wants to learn, wants

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Speaker 3: to be educated, you know, is demanding the highest level

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Speaker 3: of service available to them. They know in the locker room,

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Speaker 3: who is like them, who's like minded, who we should

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Speaker 3: talk to. And you know, a lot of cases, we

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Speaker 3: might have an athletic department or somebody who reaches out

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Speaker 3: and says, hey, can you talk to this young athlete,

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Speaker 3: just give them a baseline education on what they're getting

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Speaker 3: into their their starting to generate some nil income. So

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Speaker 3: there's been a couple of different avenues that have led

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Speaker 3: to those introductions. On the on the younger prospect side,

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Speaker 3: I would say on the younger client side, but listen,

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Speaker 3: when you're dealing with somebody who's eighteen, nineteen, twenty years

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Speaker 3: old coming into one hundred or two hundred or three

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Speaker 3: hundred thousand dollars a year in nil money Versus a

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Speaker 3: professional athlete who's making five or ten or fifteen million

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Speaker 3: dollars versus a business owner who's in their forties and

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Speaker 3: fifties and has been doing this for decades. There's a

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Speaker 3: lot more to do for that younger individual. There's a

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Speaker 3: lot more getting them up to speed, helping them develop

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Speaker 3: that financial maturity that a lot of folks you know

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Speaker 3: that have been around and have more experience than them

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Speaker 3: are are much more aware of. Now. For us, a

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Speaker 3: benefit is is that we're able to build them into

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Speaker 3: the financial space the right way, versus cleaning up messes

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Speaker 3: that other people have created. So it's a little bit

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Speaker 3: of a give and take. It's a catch twenty two

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Speaker 3: in terms of you know, is it good is it bad?

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Speaker 3: I would prefer to be able to get with somebody

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Speaker 3: sooner than and help them put their put their business

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Speaker 3: together the right way, versus have to clean stuff up.

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Speaker 1: Though I know we're running out of time, but you

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Speaker 1: made a very good point and I want to expand

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Speaker 1: on that just for Joe Blow like me. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: what's my storty. I don't know I've seen me at

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Speaker 1: the crap table one time, man, But I mean that, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's a totally different topic altogether. And it's like, you know,

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Speaker 1: I guess you hit the nail on the head when

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Speaker 1: it comes to eighteen nineteen year olds and you're trying

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Speaker 1: to convince them, you know what, you need to think

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Speaker 1: about retirement now because you're coming in the money that

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Speaker 1: the average person is not going to come into and

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Speaker 1: you're lucky. How do you you know somebody out there,

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Speaker 1: you know, who is trying to make a retirement plan,

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Speaker 1: whether it's a sports athlete or whomever, what do you

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Speaker 1: tell them? Because as they get older, they realize they're

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Speaker 1: going to run out of time.

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Speaker 3: You again, you know, and this is a common theme

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Speaker 3: with me, but you've got to boil it down to

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Speaker 3: the individual. You've got to look at their what their

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Speaker 3: short term you know, immediate, long term goals are all

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Speaker 3: the way across the board, And in that conversation with them,

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Speaker 3: I think so long as you are so long as

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Speaker 3: you're very clear and concise with the advice and the

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Speaker 3: reason the strategy behind the advice that you're giving them,

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Speaker 3: they start to understand what the power of having any

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Speaker 3: level of assets at that age is for them. You know,

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Speaker 3: time is the one thing that none of us can

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Speaker 3: get back. Time is the most powerful thing when it

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Speaker 3: comes to anything financial, and for a lot of these athletes,

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Speaker 3: that's what they have. They have, they have assets, and

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Speaker 3: they have a tremendous amount of time. So you don't

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Speaker 3: have to go create, you don't have to do all

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Speaker 3: the sexy stuff, you don't have to get over your skis.

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Speaker 3: In terms of, you know, starting out investing right away

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Speaker 3: just so you can start making money. All you have

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Speaker 3: to understand is the value and the power of that

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Speaker 3: time that you have. And when you do that, you

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Speaker 3: can start looking long term. You can start saying, hey, listen,

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Speaker 3: you don't need this much money right now. Let's put

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Speaker 3: some of this away and just understand that this is

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Speaker 3: your long term, this is your retirement, this is your now.

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Speaker 3: You know, it's just budgeting and planning. And I think

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Speaker 3: the more that you can have those high level, mature conversations,

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Speaker 3: the more they hear it from people that they start

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Speaker 3: to develop trusting relationships with, especially around their money, the

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Speaker 3: more that they're going to be in tune with those

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Speaker 3: types of those types of long term decisions, long term

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Speaker 3: thinking and everything surrounding that.

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Speaker 1: Give me hope, Noel, because my sports acumen, all I've

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Speaker 1: got is I've been the car and monopoly for fifty years.

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Speaker 2: All I got so.

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Speaker 3: Key is key.

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Speaker 1: No A La Montane, oh old friend of the show

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Speaker 1: over Then's Capital Advisor director. Thank you so much for

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Speaker 1: joining us on the Bloomberg Business of Sports. We really

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Speaker 1: do appreciate no.

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Speaker 3: I appreciate you all having me in great conversation and

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Speaker 3: topics and always a pleasure.

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Speaker 1: This has been the Bloomberg Business of Sports podcast where

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Speaker 1: we explore some of the big old money issues in

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Speaker 1: the world of sports on Michael Barr. You can follow

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Speaker 1: me on Twitter at Big Bar Sports.

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Speaker 4: And I'm on Twitter at Scarlett Foo.

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Speaker 2: And I'm on Twitter at t sas.

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Speaker 1: Hour and hey, if you need a reminder, these podcasts

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Speaker 1: show up every Monday, Wednesday and Thursday because we do

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Speaker 1: shows for all those days and you can download those

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Speaker 1: shows wherever you get your podcast, and you know why,

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Speaker 1: because that's the way we br