1
00:00:00,760 --> 00:00:03,360
Speaker 1: This episode is brought to you by Peloton break through

2
00:00:03,400 --> 00:00:05,840
Speaker 1: the busiest time of year with the brand new Peloton

3
00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:09,600
Speaker 1: Cross Training tread Plus powered by Peloton Iq. With real

4
00:00:09,640 --> 00:00:12,680
Speaker 1: time guidance and endless ways to move, you can personalize

5
00:00:12,720 --> 00:00:15,960
Speaker 1: your workouts and train with confidence, helping you reach your

6
00:00:15,960 --> 00:00:20,120
Speaker 1: goals in less time. Let yourself run, lift, sculpt, push

7
00:00:20,239 --> 00:00:23,479
Speaker 1: and go. Explore the new Peloton Cross Training tread Plus

8
00:00:23,600 --> 00:00:26,080
Speaker 1: at one peloton dot com.

9
00:00:26,079 --> 00:00:28,840
Speaker 2: Film Spotting is presented by Regal Unlimited, the all you

10
00:00:28,880 --> 00:00:31,520
Speaker 2: can watch movie subscription paths that pays for itself in

11
00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:33,960
Speaker 2: just two visits. Sign up now in the Regal app

12
00:00:34,040 --> 00:00:36,040
Speaker 2: or at the link in the show description and use

13
00:00:36,080 --> 00:00:39,720
Speaker 2: code film Spot twenty five. That's film Spot twenty five

14
00:00:40,159 --> 00:00:41,279
Speaker 2: to receive your discount.

15
00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:48,120
Speaker 3: What kind of a show you guys putting on here today?

16
00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:49,319
Speaker 4: You're not interested in armed?

17
00:00:49,479 --> 00:00:49,680
Speaker 3: Now?

18
00:00:49,840 --> 00:00:51,479
Speaker 4: Well, look we're going to do this thing. We're going

19
00:00:51,520 --> 00:00:56,760
Speaker 4: to have a conversation from Chicago. This is Film Spotting

20
00:00:56,880 --> 00:00:58,240
Speaker 4: celebrating our twentieth year.

21
00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:00,760
Speaker 3: I'm Josh Larson and I'm Adam Kempinar.

22
00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:04,399
Speaker 5: Welcome to the headquarters of your Human Resistance.

23
00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:06,600
Speaker 4: Where's my hair?

24
00:01:07,440 --> 00:01:11,040
Speaker 5: Your hair has been destroyed to prevent you from contacting

25
00:01:11,080 --> 00:01:11,440
Speaker 5: your ship?

26
00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:15,280
Speaker 4: What ship? Your mother?

27
00:01:15,400 --> 00:01:15,600
Speaker 3: Shit?

28
00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:17,720
Speaker 5: Okay.

29
00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:22,200
Speaker 4: Emma Stone is back with Bogonia, her fourth collaboration with

30
00:01:22,280 --> 00:01:27,360
Speaker 4: director Your Goo Slanthymos. This time she's been kidnapped, shaved bald,

31
00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:29,280
Speaker 4: and is maybe an alien.

32
00:01:29,560 --> 00:01:32,960
Speaker 2: Plus Jennifer Lawrence and Robert Pattinson in Lynn Ramsay's Die

33
00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:37,039
Speaker 2: My Love, Kelly rekerds The Mastermind starring Josh O'Connor, and

34
00:01:37,080 --> 00:01:41,120
Speaker 2: the latest from Iran's Jafar Panahi. It was just an accident.

35
00:01:41,319 --> 00:01:51,240
Speaker 2: It's all ahead on Film Spotting. Welcome to Film Spotting,

36
00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:53,480
Speaker 2: a lot of heavy hitters on this week's show. Josh

37
00:01:53,520 --> 00:01:57,600
Speaker 2: Emma Stone, Jesse Plemons, Jennifer Lawrence, Robert Pattinson, Kelly Reiker,

38
00:01:58,000 --> 00:01:58,800
Speaker 2: Jaffar Panahi.

39
00:01:58,840 --> 00:02:02,480
Speaker 3: A big show. Some might say huge even it's huge.

40
00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:06,360
Speaker 4: It's major stars, yeah, major directors. I cannot wait to

41
00:02:06,400 --> 00:02:07,640
Speaker 4: dig into all these titles.

42
00:02:07,920 --> 00:02:10,880
Speaker 2: We will dig into Die My Love. That's Lynn Ramsey's

43
00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:14,280
Speaker 2: film The Stars Lawrence and Pattinson, Kelly Reikert's seventy set

44
00:02:14,520 --> 00:02:18,480
Speaker 2: heist movie The Mastermind with Josh O'Connor, and Panahi's It

45
00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:19,760
Speaker 2: Was Just an Accident.

46
00:02:19,800 --> 00:02:21,799
Speaker 3: Can't wait to dig in to.

47
00:02:21,800 --> 00:02:24,960
Speaker 2: That one digging an appropriate word to use for it

48
00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:28,960
Speaker 2: was just an indeed, it turns out also poll results,

49
00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:32,880
Speaker 2: what is Robert Zemeckis's second best film? We will finally

50
00:02:33,000 --> 00:02:36,680
Speaker 2: quench the world's thirst for the answer to that one.

51
00:02:36,919 --> 00:02:39,840
Speaker 2: Listeners tell us and we will have a new poll

52
00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:45,800
Speaker 2: about actor director Duos. A quick reminder watch like subscribe.

53
00:02:45,800 --> 00:02:48,320
Speaker 2: Film Spotting is now available as a video podcast. If

54
00:02:48,360 --> 00:02:51,680
Speaker 2: you're a Spotify listener, you can toggle between video and audio.

55
00:02:51,880 --> 00:02:54,760
Speaker 2: You can also watch the show on YouTube for a

56
00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:58,160
Speaker 2: link to video episodes. Good Filmspotting dot net slash episodes.

57
00:02:58,360 --> 00:03:01,200
Speaker 4: Comments are welcome as well. I don't know if you noticed, Adam,

58
00:03:01,240 --> 00:03:05,720
Speaker 4: but yes, last show, some production design commentary on my setup.

59
00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:09,240
Speaker 4: Here a bit of appreciation for you know, adding to

60
00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:12,120
Speaker 4: what was a pretty sparse backdrop. I think it's still sparse,

61
00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:14,520
Speaker 4: but you know it got the plant a couple more books.

62
00:03:14,520 --> 00:03:19,840
Speaker 4: We're getting there, slowly but surely, indeed. But first, Bogonia, can.

63
00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:20,560
Speaker 5: We have a dialogue?

64
00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:23,239
Speaker 4: Please don't call them dialogue. This is in death of

65
00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:24,400
Speaker 4: a salesman. Okay?

66
00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:26,040
Speaker 3: Can we talk please?

67
00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:28,280
Speaker 4: Or are you just going to need to talk?

68
00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:28,600
Speaker 2: Yes?

69
00:03:28,639 --> 00:03:30,840
Speaker 5: Okay, because I know exactly what you're going to say,

70
00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:33,520
Speaker 5: You're going to say that I'm in some kind of

71
00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:40,240
Speaker 5: Internet induced auto hypnotic feedback loop and gatekeepers and norms

72
00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:42,720
Speaker 5: and all that weak hegemonic horse shit. But that is

73
00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:46,520
Speaker 5: precisely the limptic rhetoric that you've been instructed to counter

74
00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:47,640
Speaker 5: the human insurgency.

75
00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:51,400
Speaker 4: With a simple question for you right at the start here, Adam,

76
00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:57,600
Speaker 4: when it comes to Bogonia, have we been here before? Surprise, surprise,

77
00:03:57,680 --> 00:04:00,840
Speaker 4: But the last fifteen years or so haven't convinced Greek

78
00:04:00,880 --> 00:04:05,560
Speaker 4: director Yorgos Lanthemos to discover a newfound faith in humanity,

79
00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:09,360
Speaker 4: at least since two thousand and nine's Dog Tooth and

80
00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:13,760
Speaker 4: through the likes of the Lobster, the Favorite Poor Things

81
00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:17,760
Speaker 4: and kinds of Kindness, Lanthemos has put the human species

82
00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:22,680
Speaker 4: on trial. In almost every case, we've been found guilty. Bogonia,

83
00:04:22,760 --> 00:04:27,280
Speaker 4: his latest feels to me like something of a final verdict. Now,

84
00:04:27,279 --> 00:04:30,960
Speaker 4: those last three movies I mentioned featured Emma Stone, as

85
00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:35,440
Speaker 4: does Bogonia. She plays Michelle Fuller, the highly optimized CEO

86
00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:40,000
Speaker 4: of a pharmaceutical giant. Kidnapped from her luxury home one day,

87
00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:44,400
Speaker 4: Michelle finds herself in the basement of disenfranchised minimum wage

88
00:04:44,440 --> 00:04:48,159
Speaker 4: worker Teddy Gattz played by Jesse Plemmons, who is another

89
00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:53,320
Speaker 4: kinds of kindness that also alongside helping sort of is

90
00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:57,800
Speaker 4: Teddy's cousin Don, played by Aidan Delvis. Teddy makes a

91
00:04:57,839 --> 00:05:01,520
Speaker 4: bizarre claim that Michelle belongs to an alien race of

92
00:05:01,839 --> 00:05:05,919
Speaker 4: Andramaedons who are manipulating the forces of business and politics

93
00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:11,120
Speaker 4: in order to covertly turn humanity into a subservient species.

94
00:05:11,520 --> 00:05:16,080
Speaker 4: They're also killing all the bees. His demand an audience

95
00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:21,039
Speaker 4: with the Andromaedon Emperor. Now, the context and characters are

96
00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:23,440
Speaker 4: different this time around, but it seems to me Lanthemos

97
00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:29,320
Speaker 4: His aim is the same mirthful misanthropy. But maybe I'm

98
00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:33,320
Speaker 4: painting his films with too broad a brush. Or even

99
00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:36,200
Speaker 4: if I'm not, and you agree with that reading of

100
00:05:36,240 --> 00:05:40,800
Speaker 4: his filmography, maybe you don't mind another exercise in that

101
00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:44,880
Speaker 4: vein with some of the same faces. So did Bogonia

102
00:05:44,960 --> 00:05:48,599
Speaker 4: offer you anything new, Adam? Did it even need to?

103
00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:52,880
Speaker 2: Well, I am not going to earn any points, Josh,

104
00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:56,240
Speaker 2: because I don't have mirthful in my notes here, but

105
00:05:56,360 --> 00:06:00,240
Speaker 2: I do have the word misanthropy, So maybe we have

106
00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:03,520
Speaker 2: a similar take. When it comes to the latest from

107
00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:07,000
Speaker 2: mister Lanthemos. I am more curious for your answer to

108
00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:09,640
Speaker 2: your own question because I thought and I could be

109
00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:12,640
Speaker 2: wrong here, and you can enlighten me as I turn

110
00:06:12,720 --> 00:06:14,840
Speaker 2: it back over to you here. At some point, I

111
00:06:14,960 --> 00:06:17,320
Speaker 2: feel like I'm a little bit more of the Lanthemos

112
00:06:17,400 --> 00:06:18,920
Speaker 2: apologist than you are.

113
00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:20,320
Speaker 3: Again, I could be wrong.

114
00:06:20,360 --> 00:06:23,160
Speaker 2: I feel like I've been higher on a few of

115
00:06:23,200 --> 00:06:26,680
Speaker 2: his films than you have been, and I don't know

116
00:06:26,720 --> 00:06:30,920
Speaker 2: if it's really me feeling like I need anything new,

117
00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:35,800
Speaker 2: especially after only two films, where maybe you can see

118
00:06:35,839 --> 00:06:38,320
Speaker 2: a bit of a pattern developing, and in terms of

119
00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:41,760
Speaker 2: the performances, I think what Stone is doing here is

120
00:06:41,880 --> 00:06:46,000
Speaker 2: very different from what she's doing in kinds of Kindness,

121
00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:49,720
Speaker 2: and I think what Plemons is doing here has way

122
00:06:49,760 --> 00:06:53,240
Speaker 2: more humanity to him than what he's doing in kinds

123
00:06:53,279 --> 00:06:57,719
Speaker 2: of kindness. But this is two films in a row

124
00:06:57,760 --> 00:07:01,240
Speaker 2: that I am not high on very much, being all in,

125
00:07:01,279 --> 00:07:03,560
Speaker 2: and I do this only to provide a little bit

126
00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:06,120
Speaker 2: of context and even to show that it's not really

127
00:07:06,560 --> 00:07:09,800
Speaker 2: as if it's just a recent trend. The two films

128
00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:14,280
Speaker 2: of his that I put in the top tier are

129
00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:18,040
Speaker 2: Dog Tooth, and Poor Things. And Poor Things just came

130
00:07:18,080 --> 00:07:20,880
Speaker 2: out in twenty twenty three. Both of those movies made

131
00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:23,480
Speaker 2: my top ten films of their respective years. I actually

132
00:07:23,520 --> 00:07:27,200
Speaker 2: think they made my top five films of their respective years.

133
00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:31,480
Speaker 2: That's how much I like those movies. But I walked

134
00:07:31,520 --> 00:07:34,680
Speaker 2: out of begoonya Josh thinking along the same lines as

135
00:07:34,880 --> 00:07:37,840
Speaker 2: your setup. I guess I'm I'm trying to determine what

136
00:07:38,200 --> 00:07:42,160
Speaker 2: it is with these last two that is keeping me

137
00:07:42,320 --> 00:07:45,080
Speaker 2: at a distance, because I don't believe it has anything

138
00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:48,480
Speaker 2: to do with Plemons, who I think is a remarkable actor,

139
00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:52,120
Speaker 2: or Stone, who I think is a remarkable actress who

140
00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:56,640
Speaker 2: obviously was also in The Favorite and Poor Things. I

141
00:07:56,680 --> 00:08:00,120
Speaker 2: don't know that I have landed on the answer, and

142
00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:03,400
Speaker 2: maybe you can help me get to one, especially as

143
00:08:03,400 --> 00:08:05,880
Speaker 2: I am just a few days removed from seeing Pogonia.

144
00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:09,200
Speaker 2: But the best I can offer right now is that

145
00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:13,680
Speaker 2: all of those other movies, while certainly driven by concept,

146
00:08:14,880 --> 00:08:19,800
Speaker 2: we're also story first and point second, and these last

147
00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:24,360
Speaker 2: two films strike me as point first and story second.

148
00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:29,440
Speaker 2: And more importantly, you suggested that the human species has

149
00:08:29,520 --> 00:08:32,720
Speaker 2: been on trial all along and has lost the case,

150
00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:35,520
Speaker 2: and there may be some truth to that, but for me,

151
00:08:36,600 --> 00:08:40,840
Speaker 2: that point may be that human beings are intolerable, insignificant,

152
00:08:40,840 --> 00:08:46,040
Speaker 2: and unnecessary. I guess I prefer my misanthropy more clever

153
00:08:47,040 --> 00:08:51,400
Speaker 2: and less insincere. I just felt like this film ultimately

154
00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:55,079
Speaker 2: had a shallowness to it. And before anyone says, well,

155
00:08:55,440 --> 00:08:56,120
Speaker 2: what do you want.

156
00:08:56,040 --> 00:08:59,760
Speaker 3: From the movies? Do you just want reassurance and comfort?

157
00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:05,440
Speaker 2: No? I've praised many deeply misanthropic films over the years

158
00:09:05,640 --> 00:09:09,040
Speaker 2: on this show, but they left me with more to

159
00:09:09,080 --> 00:09:14,079
Speaker 2: consider at the end, and they were certainly a lot funnier,

160
00:09:14,360 --> 00:09:16,400
Speaker 2: which I think a movie like this needs to be,

161
00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:19,160
Speaker 2: and I think this movie is trying to be at times,

162
00:09:19,280 --> 00:09:22,600
Speaker 2: especially if you're going to put characters through the ringer

163
00:09:23,280 --> 00:09:27,600
Speaker 2: as emotionally and as physically as this one does, and

164
00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:31,000
Speaker 2: if it's going to pay off non spoilers, but if

165
00:09:31,040 --> 00:09:35,800
Speaker 2: it's going to pay off with the joke that this

166
00:09:35,920 --> 00:09:40,360
Speaker 2: movie ultimately does, which felt to me like the bad

167
00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:44,120
Speaker 2: tag to a Saturday Live skit, How did you feel?

168
00:09:44,240 --> 00:09:47,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm with you on the ending, which is, you know,

169
00:09:47,640 --> 00:09:50,839
Speaker 4: a twist of sorts, but it is absolutely a joke

170
00:09:50,960 --> 00:09:55,559
Speaker 4: for me at Undercut. It not only reinforced the misanthropy

171
00:09:55,760 --> 00:10:00,120
Speaker 4: of his filmography, but it also undercut what was interesting

172
00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:02,640
Speaker 4: for a while to me about Bogonia. That was a

173
00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:06,080
Speaker 4: bit of a divergence, and I will talk about that

174
00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:09,760
Speaker 4: without going into detail about the twist at the end.

175
00:10:09,760 --> 00:10:12,000
Speaker 4: I don't think we want to spoil that, but to

176
00:10:12,080 --> 00:10:16,320
Speaker 4: me it did feel a little insincere is maybe a

177
00:10:16,320 --> 00:10:18,800
Speaker 4: good word. It was a deflating joke, is how I

178
00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:24,319
Speaker 4: experienced it. And I understand what you're saying about idea

179
00:10:24,360 --> 00:10:27,880
Speaker 4: and concept first maybe being an issue with this film,

180
00:10:27,920 --> 00:10:31,199
Speaker 4: and certainly I think with kinds of kindness, because as

181
00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:33,840
Speaker 4: you know, a triptich, you had to get the nugget

182
00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:37,040
Speaker 4: of each story right away in this essential short film,

183
00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:39,680
Speaker 4: and that just tends to be a feature of the form.

184
00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:43,760
Speaker 4: Is that the the notion, the hook is going to

185
00:10:43,760 --> 00:10:46,440
Speaker 4: be at the forefront. Now. I will also say, though

186
00:10:46,559 --> 00:10:50,720
Speaker 4: my favorite Lanthemo's film, The Lobster, I think is absolutely

187
00:10:51,320 --> 00:10:52,240
Speaker 4: concept first.

188
00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:54,120
Speaker 3: I mean it's it's just.

189
00:10:54,080 --> 00:10:58,400
Speaker 4: All about this basic idea that are illegal, Yes, singles

190
00:10:58,440 --> 00:11:00,520
Speaker 4: are illegal in the Lobster, and so they have to

191
00:11:00,520 --> 00:11:03,160
Speaker 4: go to this hotel find a partner, and if they don't,

192
00:11:03,160 --> 00:11:04,880
Speaker 4: they're turned into an animal. Their choice at the end.

193
00:11:04,960 --> 00:11:07,400
Speaker 4: It starts with that and does to your point, I

194
00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:10,840
Speaker 4: think what you meant is it raises up all sorts

195
00:11:10,880 --> 00:11:14,800
Speaker 4: of provocative ideas from that concept. I don't think we

196
00:11:14,920 --> 00:11:17,480
Speaker 4: get that here. And I also like what you said

197
00:11:17,559 --> 00:11:21,439
Speaker 4: about you know, films that have a discussed in humanity,

198
00:11:21,679 --> 00:11:24,040
Speaker 4: They're not out of bounds for either of us. To

199
00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:27,600
Speaker 4: your point, we have talked about those and found worthwhile

200
00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:29,920
Speaker 4: things to discuss and to appreciate about them. So that's

201
00:11:29,920 --> 00:11:33,160
Speaker 4: not the critique I'm making either. Lanthemos has been a

202
00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:37,319
Speaker 4: filmmaker that I from Dog tooth on was incredibly excited

203
00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:41,360
Speaker 4: about his work, and again the Lobster maybe being the

204
00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:45,880
Speaker 4: high point, but it's been diminishing returns for me, especially

205
00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:49,200
Speaker 4: even since Poor Things. I would say, though, I think

206
00:11:49,240 --> 00:11:51,280
Speaker 4: that has a little different spin on the misanthropy. I

207
00:11:51,320 --> 00:11:56,280
Speaker 4: think he's offering a vision of a different way of

208
00:11:56,360 --> 00:11:59,520
Speaker 4: living for humanity at the end of that movie. Worth

209
00:11:59,559 --> 00:12:02,199
Speaker 4: noting that it's a book adaptation, so it's not purely

210
00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:07,000
Speaker 4: coming from necessarily his worldview quite as much as some

211
00:12:07,080 --> 00:12:11,120
Speaker 4: of these others might be. Now, I think for me,

212
00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:14,959
Speaker 4: when it comes to Begonia, I was on board with

213
00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:17,480
Speaker 4: this because of the performances and some other the creative

214
00:12:17,520 --> 00:12:20,600
Speaker 4: elements we'll get to. But the way Teddy's wild theory

215
00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:23,920
Speaker 4: about the aliens was working for me as a rebuttal

216
00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:27,200
Speaker 4: to this misanthropy we've been talking about, to this hatred

217
00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:30,360
Speaker 4: of humanity, this despising of humanity, and it was doing

218
00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:32,520
Speaker 4: it this way. The more we learn about Teddy, we

219
00:12:32,600 --> 00:12:35,760
Speaker 4: gather that his life has been one of limited resources.

220
00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:41,160
Speaker 4: There's been opioid addiction I gathered in his family in

221
00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:44,559
Speaker 4: the past, and he's been exploited at the hands of corporations. Now,

222
00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:49,600
Speaker 4: rather than helplessly despair over human culpability over that and

223
00:12:49,679 --> 00:12:53,080
Speaker 4: blame humans, he finds it easier to blame aliens, to

224
00:12:53,240 --> 00:12:58,000
Speaker 4: just glob onto this conspiracy, because it's better that the

225
00:12:58,040 --> 00:13:00,679
Speaker 4: aliens are killing the bees, Adam, than that we are

226
00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:04,680
Speaker 4: as people. There's something maybe that would make Teddy's brain

227
00:13:04,880 --> 00:13:09,360
Speaker 4: crack in a different way. And I also thought this

228
00:13:09,520 --> 00:13:13,480
Speaker 4: was becoming interesting because as something of an explainer of

229
00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:16,280
Speaker 4: sorts about the current political state in America, I was

230
00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:19,240
Speaker 4: thinking of Bogoonia as it was going on along these lines.

231
00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:22,240
Speaker 4: Next to twenty twenty five movies like Eddington or one

232
00:13:22,280 --> 00:13:26,360
Speaker 4: battle after another. Again, interesting, this is a little different

233
00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:28,439
Speaker 4: from what I found in other Lanthemost films. Let's see

234
00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:31,040
Speaker 4: where this goes. But then the more we find out

235
00:13:31,040 --> 00:13:33,920
Speaker 4: about Teddy, and I'm not going to detail it, I

236
00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:38,120
Speaker 4: think we fall back into familiar Lanthemos territory. I think

237
00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:43,000
Speaker 4: we do that before the twist, when we realize what

238
00:13:43,080 --> 00:13:47,080
Speaker 4: Teddy is actually involved in beyond his theory. I'll just

239
00:13:47,120 --> 00:13:50,040
Speaker 4: say that. And I think at that point we're just

240
00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:56,800
Speaker 4: in this worldview of humans being detestable and worthless, and

241
00:13:57,120 --> 00:13:59,360
Speaker 4: the twist for me just to put too fine of

242
00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:01,280
Speaker 4: a point on it. So I don't know that I'm

243
00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:04,960
Speaker 4: entirely negative on Bogonia, yet I hope to find a

244
00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:08,000
Speaker 4: place to land in our conversation because the performances I

245
00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:10,719
Speaker 4: think are very good, and as I said, some of

246
00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:12,760
Speaker 4: the filmmaking here is as well as you're always going

247
00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:15,960
Speaker 4: to get with Lanthy Mouse. But it's definitely it's definitely

248
00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:17,959
Speaker 4: in that lower tier for me at this point.

249
00:14:18,360 --> 00:14:21,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think we had almost an identical reaction to

250
00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:24,480
Speaker 2: this film. I like it more than Kinds of Kindness,

251
00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:27,520
Speaker 2: though it is in that lower tier, and it's because

252
00:14:27,560 --> 00:14:30,000
Speaker 2: of some of the performances. It is because of some

253
00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:32,520
Speaker 2: of the ideas, and it is because it has more

254
00:14:32,640 --> 00:14:36,680
Speaker 2: story to it, which I responded to than something like

255
00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:39,680
Speaker 2: Kinds of Kindness. And I want to say, just to clarify,

256
00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:42,520
Speaker 2: I was acknowledging that a lot of his films are

257
00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:46,440
Speaker 2: concept driven, and I tend to respond to those concepts.

258
00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:51,160
Speaker 2: Like The Lobster, I would say that's a high concept film.

259
00:14:51,240 --> 00:14:53,760
Speaker 2: I would say Dog Tooth is a high concept film.

260
00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:57,280
Speaker 2: But those films, even with that high concept, they still

261
00:14:57,280 --> 00:15:00,360
Speaker 2: put the story first as opposed to some kind of

262
00:15:00,440 --> 00:15:02,440
Speaker 2: moral that we're supposed to take away.

263
00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:02,840
Speaker 3: From the movie.

264
00:15:02,880 --> 00:15:06,080
Speaker 2: And I feel like there's a very clear moral to

265
00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:09,560
Speaker 2: take away from this film. I think it's less clear

266
00:15:09,800 --> 00:15:11,840
Speaker 2: with Kinds of Kindness, but I think it's getting at

267
00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:16,760
Speaker 2: a similar idea about human beings and human nature, and

268
00:15:17,160 --> 00:15:20,720
Speaker 2: I find that less interesting than going along for the ride,

269
00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:23,600
Speaker 2: so to speak, of the storytelling. And so it's really

270
00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:28,520
Speaker 2: about the storytelling more than anything that I found interesting

271
00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:32,560
Speaker 2: here up to a point, and I can tell you

272
00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:37,880
Speaker 2: here where it started to dissipate for me my interest

273
00:15:38,040 --> 00:15:40,760
Speaker 2: in the film. And it ties back to some extent

274
00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:45,360
Speaker 2: as well to the misanthropy idea. But first I do

275
00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:50,080
Speaker 2: also want to acknowledge what you're saying. There already was

276
00:15:50,920 --> 00:15:53,560
Speaker 2: this sense building, and then it comes to a crescendo

277
00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:57,080
Speaker 2: right before, right before actually the moment I'm going to

278
00:15:57,080 --> 00:16:00,400
Speaker 2: speak to, where you realize, oh, this movie is getting

279
00:16:00,440 --> 00:16:04,800
Speaker 2: into current events in a way that you don't expect

280
00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:07,240
Speaker 2: from this movie based on what you think it's about,

281
00:16:07,640 --> 00:16:12,280
Speaker 2: based on what you expect from your ghost Lanthemos movie.

282
00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:19,119
Speaker 2: It is reckoning with our divided country and our divided

283
00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:22,560
Speaker 2: sense of humanity right now in a way that is

284
00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:26,840
Speaker 2: very raw and I think will provoke some questions. I

285
00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:29,360
Speaker 2: think what you're getting at and I agree with is

286
00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:32,120
Speaker 2: by the end of the movie, it it maybe does

287
00:16:32,480 --> 00:16:35,520
Speaker 2: or maybe undoes, not only some of the goodwill that

288
00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:38,360
Speaker 2: those questions in gender, but it actually starts to make

289
00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:42,240
Speaker 2: you ask some different questions that aren't aren't as interesting

290
00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:45,400
Speaker 2: as the questions that are in the middle of this film,

291
00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:49,480
Speaker 2: right that you actually do, yeah, yeah, that you you

292
00:16:49,560 --> 00:16:52,520
Speaker 2: really should be and want to be reckoning with. But

293
00:16:53,280 --> 00:16:57,080
Speaker 2: part of the misanthropy of the film, and maybe that's

294
00:16:57,080 --> 00:16:58,200
Speaker 2: the last time we'll use.

295
00:16:58,080 --> 00:16:58,840
Speaker 3: That word here.

296
00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:05,240
Speaker 2: Is the moment when so the comic Stavros, who I've

297
00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:08,800
Speaker 2: never seen in a film before, plays a police officer,

298
00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:12,399
Speaker 2: and there's a complete contrivance in the movie, and you

299
00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:15,680
Speaker 2: can say the screenplay sets it up earlier in the film.

300
00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:18,360
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna spoil anything here, but you could say

301
00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:20,960
Speaker 2: the screenplay sets it up that he might show up.

302
00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:25,960
Speaker 2: But it's still completely contrived, and I'm shaking my head

303
00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:28,960
Speaker 2: the entire time in the theater watching it. But there's

304
00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:34,399
Speaker 2: a moment where he shows up. Beyond the contrivance of it, Josh,

305
00:17:34,520 --> 00:17:41,159
Speaker 2: there's something that character admits, and in that moment, taking

306
00:17:41,160 --> 00:17:45,399
Speaker 2: in that information, there's a generous there's a generous reading

307
00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:50,760
Speaker 2: of what the screenplay has him admit. That is, he's

308
00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:54,680
Speaker 2: confessing something that's appropriate to the movie and its themes

309
00:17:56,480 --> 00:18:03,159
Speaker 2: in terms of some of these corporate sins, sins that

310
00:18:04,119 --> 00:18:09,439
Speaker 2: hurt deeply, hurt people, that scar people, that traumatize people,

311
00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:16,159
Speaker 2: and you look for forgiveness, easy forgiveness with apologies and

312
00:18:16,240 --> 00:18:20,000
Speaker 2: hope that that somehow makes everything better. That would be

313
00:18:20,040 --> 00:18:23,399
Speaker 2: the generous reading. And then there's the not so generous reading,

314
00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:28,320
Speaker 2: which is the movie just piling on this sense of

315
00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:34,040
Speaker 2: suffering onto both characters in the scene to some extent,

316
00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:38,680
Speaker 2: but especially the character that the police officer is talking too,

317
00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:48,040
Speaker 2: and it's reducing that character's erratic behavior to his trauma,

318
00:18:48,840 --> 00:18:51,320
Speaker 2: and it's making it seem like it's just another bit

319
00:18:51,359 --> 00:18:55,760
Speaker 2: of pain that he is acting on behalf of, almost

320
00:18:55,880 --> 00:19:01,040
Speaker 2: like he can't control himself. And that's that's where that

321
00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:05,160
Speaker 2: was more evidence for me of where this movie's heart

322
00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:07,320
Speaker 2: or lack thereof lied.

323
00:19:07,720 --> 00:19:10,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, it starts to psychologize him. There's another element to

324
00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:15,360
Speaker 4: the story that gives that psychological background to Teddy as

325
00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:18,399
Speaker 4: well that I think plays into into what you're talking

326
00:19:18,440 --> 00:19:21,960
Speaker 4: about now. I do want to say I think Plemmons

327
00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:26,520
Speaker 4: is fantastic here, as he was in Kinds of Kindness.

328
00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:29,000
Speaker 4: I thought, you know, he's playing three different characters in

329
00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:31,000
Speaker 4: that film, but he did bring to my mind he

330
00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:34,040
Speaker 4: was the best thing about that movie, and there were,

331
00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:37,520
Speaker 4: among those three films moments where he did bring a

332
00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:39,880
Speaker 4: real humanity here. I think he's doing that as much

333
00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:43,240
Speaker 4: as he can in a much less interesting character than

334
00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:45,560
Speaker 4: Plemmons has been able to play in the past. Let's

335
00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:49,080
Speaker 4: just I'll put it that way. This is not as

336
00:19:50,119 --> 00:19:52,800
Speaker 4: richly written as some of the other characters Plemmons has

337
00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:54,840
Speaker 4: had to play. When it comes to Plemons, I think

338
00:19:54,840 --> 00:19:58,520
Speaker 4: we're learning it doesn't matter. I mean, this is someone

339
00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:01,000
Speaker 4: and this is where the role actually fits him. I

340
00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:04,719
Speaker 4: don't know if we have a truer believer as an

341
00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:09,240
Speaker 4: actor right now, in the sense that he brings such

342
00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:13,760
Speaker 4: conviction to the person that he's playing. And yes, of

343
00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:16,520
Speaker 4: course you should say obvious, that's what acting is. But

344
00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:19,080
Speaker 4: when you see it at the level of what Plemons

345
00:20:19,119 --> 00:20:21,640
Speaker 4: is doing it it makes other people look like fakers.

346
00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:24,360
Speaker 3: Incrowdly what it is.

347
00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:29,280
Speaker 5: She's a D two the best I've seen.

348
00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:32,400
Speaker 4: How can you tell she is an alien?

349
00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:38,040
Speaker 5: Well, the signs are obvious. They did a hell of

350
00:20:38,040 --> 00:20:41,160
Speaker 5: a job on it. But the tells are there, narrow feet,

351
00:20:42,359 --> 00:20:49,280
Speaker 5: then cuticles slip over by.

352
00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:51,480
Speaker 4: You just not for a second doubt not only who

353
00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:53,720
Speaker 4: he is, but the depth of the belief of what

354
00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:56,520
Speaker 4: Teddy believes, which I really do think comes from that

355
00:20:56,600 --> 00:20:59,359
Speaker 4: conviction that Plemons brings as an actor. So this is,

356
00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:01,720
Speaker 4: in some way, even though it's not the richest role,

357
00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:05,520
Speaker 4: really fitting role for him and he you know, I

358
00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:08,080
Speaker 4: think it's more of the screen time than stone. This

359
00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:12,239
Speaker 4: is really Teddy's movie in a lot of ways. Now,

360
00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:14,920
Speaker 4: as far as Stone goes, you know, you're right that

361
00:21:15,119 --> 00:21:17,000
Speaker 4: I'm glad you pointed that out. This is very different

362
00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:19,959
Speaker 4: than what she's been doing in her other films with Lanthemos.

363
00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:22,080
Speaker 4: You know, it's I don't know if she could push

364
00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:24,600
Speaker 4: the envelope much further than she did im poor things.

365
00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:28,520
Speaker 4: But yet this is not some sort of glamour role.

366
00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:30,679
Speaker 4: I mean, the shaved head is one thing, but also

367
00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:34,560
Speaker 4: how about that Teddy forces her to cover herself in lotion?

368
00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:38,119
Speaker 4: This is this is also she can't communicate with, you know,

369
00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:41,600
Speaker 4: her fellow aliens, supposedly, and she essentially comes off looking

370
00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:45,560
Speaker 4: like you know, no s Feratu's little sister or something

371
00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:50,560
Speaker 4: like that. And yet Stone is managing as this, you know,

372
00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:56,439
Speaker 4: corporate power woman holding such corporate power to throw a

373
00:21:56,480 --> 00:21:58,959
Speaker 4: lot of this back in Teddy's face and debate him

374
00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:02,919
Speaker 4: in terms of logic, and those eyes of hers looking

375
00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:08,320
Speaker 4: like this are just given more insistence and have more

376
00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:11,119
Speaker 4: of an effect on you. So I did. One of

377
00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:13,520
Speaker 4: the things that carried me through the movie was there

378
00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:15,880
Speaker 4: back and forth the two of them, when it becomes

379
00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:19,479
Speaker 4: this negotiation of a sort and an exchange of power,

380
00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:22,960
Speaker 4: even though Teddy mostly holds the power because Stone is

381
00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:26,359
Speaker 4: so commanding you get the sense that that could flip

382
00:22:26,359 --> 00:22:29,439
Speaker 4: at any moment, and so there is a tension in

383
00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:33,560
Speaker 4: the movie that did keep me invested, even when I

384
00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:36,200
Speaker 4: started to feel like it was thematically unraveling.

385
00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:40,600
Speaker 2: Mm hm, Stavros Halkius, that's his last name. Wanted to

386
00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:43,359
Speaker 2: make sure I got that out there. I agree everything

387
00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:46,960
Speaker 2: you said. I can't say it any better about Plemmon's Stone.

388
00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:49,359
Speaker 2: I like what she does with her voice here. It

389
00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:52,600
Speaker 2: feels like she lowers it actually just a little bit

390
00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:56,400
Speaker 2: in her register to give herself even more command.

391
00:22:56,480 --> 00:22:58,360
Speaker 3: And there are there are a couple of.

392
00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:00,879
Speaker 2: Line deliveries, and I didn't write the lines down, but

393
00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:03,920
Speaker 2: if you've seen the movie, you probably know which lines

394
00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:06,800
Speaker 2: I'm referring to. One's dramatic and one's comic that I

395
00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:11,160
Speaker 2: feel like only Emma Stone could nail with the precision

396
00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:14,800
Speaker 2: that she nails them, like they have the exact effect,

397
00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:19,159
Speaker 2: you know, those lines, those responses need to have, Like

398
00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:24,720
Speaker 2: her timing is just perfect, and the tension between them

399
00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:27,080
Speaker 2: that you're referring to, it's absolutely there. But I think

400
00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:30,840
Speaker 2: there's really effective tension that she brings as well, just

401
00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:37,040
Speaker 2: in terms of her characterization. The way she portrays that character,

402
00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:42,680
Speaker 2: where she understands that that character, as written, is going

403
00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:46,760
Speaker 2: to bring with it certain baggage and that we're going

404
00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:51,800
Speaker 2: to have certain expectations, and it would be very easy

405
00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:54,520
Speaker 2: for her to go just a little bit, to push

406
00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:57,640
Speaker 2: it a little bit too far and make her this

407
00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:02,800
Speaker 2: obnoxious stereotype, the evil CEO. And there are some elements

408
00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:05,680
Speaker 2: of that there, but only some elements. I don't think

409
00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:09,399
Speaker 2: she pushes it too far, and that tension is in.

410
00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:12,400
Speaker 2: Of course, we have some sympathy for her because she's

411
00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:17,280
Speaker 2: been kidnapped and she's being wildly mistreated, but we're not

412
00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:21,560
Speaker 2: sure exactly how we feel about her for most of

413
00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:25,199
Speaker 2: the runtime of this film how genuine she actually is,

414
00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:29,879
Speaker 2: and I think that that comes through in her performance.

415
00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:33,240
Speaker 2: So I do think Stone and Plemings here are big

416
00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:36,560
Speaker 2: reasons why you should see the movie. I do want

417
00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:38,520
Speaker 2: to touch on and I will do this again, I

418
00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:42,080
Speaker 2: promise you, without spoiling anything about the film. But the

419
00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:46,399
Speaker 2: very end of the film is another reason. Not the

420
00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:49,800
Speaker 2: ending I referred to earlier, Josh, not the reveal, if

421
00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:53,320
Speaker 2: you will, but the actual coda of the film. There

422
00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:57,800
Speaker 2: is a closing sequence of shots and I did see that.

423
00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:01,720
Speaker 2: One of our friends, one of my dear friends associated

424
00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:04,080
Speaker 2: with the show, Sam Smith, and we usually see eye

425
00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:06,040
Speaker 2: to eye on a lot of things. He said he

426
00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:08,399
Speaker 2: gave the film an extra half star just because of

427
00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:10,679
Speaker 2: this sequence. And I guess he's gonna have to explain

428
00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:13,000
Speaker 2: to me what I'm getting so wrong here. There is

429
00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:16,640
Speaker 2: this closing sequence and we get a montage of shots.

430
00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:23,200
Speaker 2: They're very artistically framed, They're very detailed in their staging.

431
00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:28,400
Speaker 2: They clearly required very intricate set up, some quite extravagant,

432
00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:32,840
Speaker 2: others more mundane. And that's the point that juxtaposition, and

433
00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:36,840
Speaker 2: the entire time I watched the shots, and the point

434
00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:39,520
Speaker 2: seems to be that there are so many of them

435
00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:42,760
Speaker 2: that it goes on and on. It's not just three

436
00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:45,359
Speaker 2: or four shots, and oh, we get the point. It's

437
00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:50,680
Speaker 2: giving us this panoply of views. And the whole time

438
00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:53,200
Speaker 2: I watched it, I just was thinking to what end?

439
00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:54,560
Speaker 3: To what end?

440
00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:58,080
Speaker 2: It was the movie in a nutshell, very stylish, and

441
00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:05,120
Speaker 2: it must have been both provocative and amusing to someone,

442
00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:09,639
Speaker 2: to someone or a lot of people associated with putting

443
00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:14,800
Speaker 2: it together, and it just couldn't have landed with more

444
00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:16,280
Speaker 2: of a thud for.

445
00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:20,159
Speaker 4: Me literal overkill, I think, is how you might be

446
00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:22,879
Speaker 4: able to describe that. And I did want to note

447
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:26,520
Speaker 4: quickly before we wrap up here, as I was talking about,

448
00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:29,879
Speaker 4: you know, poor Things being an adaptation of a novel,

449
00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:32,359
Speaker 4: how much does it fit with Lanthemos's other films? Should

450
00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:36,720
Speaker 4: note that Bogonia itself is based on a two thousand

451
00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:39,360
Speaker 4: and three South Korean film, So Save the Green Planet,

452
00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:45,040
Speaker 4: so again not coming purely entirely from Yorgos Lanthemos, but

453
00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:47,480
Speaker 4: as I said at the start, I found it to

454
00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:52,119
Speaker 4: fit quite nicely into the worldview that most of his

455
00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:53,920
Speaker 4: movies have presented.

456
00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:57,760
Speaker 2: Sure, and written by let's be clear, written by Will Tracy,

457
00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:01,159
Speaker 2: who also wrote the menu, So Lanthemos. I'm trying to

458
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:04,439
Speaker 2: look this up now, did he actually take a writing

459
00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:09,000
Speaker 2: credit on it? Or is it only written by Will Tracy?

460
00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:10,560
Speaker 2: I'm trying to get that before.

461
00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:11,720
Speaker 3: We jump here.

462
00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:14,800
Speaker 4: At IMDb it's yes, Will Tracy, So.

463
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:18,200
Speaker 2: It's just Will Tracy. So absolutely we can't. We can't

464
00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:23,000
Speaker 2: give all the credit or the blame to Lanthemos for

465
00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:25,800
Speaker 2: this film. This is clearly the vision as well of

466
00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:28,440
Speaker 2: Will Tracy, and based on some of his other credits

467
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:31,240
Speaker 2: including what I know about the menu, because it's a

468
00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:34,919
Speaker 2: film I still haven't seen. Actually, this seems consistent with

469
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:38,120
Speaker 2: his worldview as well. We have talked about this film

470
00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:40,240
Speaker 2: quite a bit and we still haven't gotten to maybe

471
00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:42,560
Speaker 2: the performance. I think that's the most interesting in the

472
00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:45,000
Speaker 2: film and one that I have a lot I think

473
00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:48,520
Speaker 2: to say about. Maybe more accurately, I would say I

474
00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:51,080
Speaker 2: have a lot of questions about that I'm still very

475
00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:55,679
Speaker 2: much working through. And that's aiden Delbis as Don the

476
00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:59,320
Speaker 2: partner in crime, literally the partner in crime to Jesse

477
00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:03,159
Speaker 2: Plemmons's Teddy, And part of the fun of this movie

478
00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:09,440
Speaker 2: for me, honestly was seeing them as a modern day

479
00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:13,960
Speaker 2: version of Pacino and John Cazally in Dog Day Afternoon,

480
00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:17,639
Speaker 2: trying to pull off a crime that they seem to

481
00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:23,920
Speaker 2: be too inept to pull off, and that it seems

482
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:28,119
Speaker 2: like the dynamic is of course that that sal and

483
00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:31,359
Speaker 2: in this case Don are in that role of being

484
00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:35,199
Speaker 2: a little bit manipulated by the person who's in charge.

485
00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:37,760
Speaker 2: And I was thinking about that dynamic the entire time.

486
00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:40,840
Speaker 2: There's a lot to say about the casting of Delvis,

487
00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:45,680
Speaker 2: who is someone who is neurodivergent, who describes himself as autistic,

488
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:48,600
Speaker 2: and you clearly see you clearly see that that is

489
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:51,120
Speaker 2: the case with his performance.

490
00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:54,480
Speaker 4: What I thought was especially interesting about that performance is

491
00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:59,000
Speaker 4: a moment where, yes, we are to understand that Don is,

492
00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:03,000
Speaker 4: you know, not entirely following maybe what Teddy is up to.

493
00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:07,080
Speaker 4: He's definitely subservient to Teddy. But Don is also incredibly

494
00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:10,080
Speaker 4: perceptive on that point I was talking out before, and

495
00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:15,200
Speaker 4: that's Teddy as I see it, choosing conspiracy over the

496
00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:19,960
Speaker 4: reality of human fallibility. And Don, at one point, after

497
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:22,240
Speaker 4: Teddy has been ranting about something I think, looks at

498
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:25,360
Speaker 4: him and says, I wish I could fix everything that's

499
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:28,800
Speaker 4: been done to you. And I think that's so crucial

500
00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:33,440
Speaker 4: because he recognizes at some level that this is not

501
00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:37,480
Speaker 4: about aliens at all, right, it really is about the

502
00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:42,080
Speaker 4: human problem. And Don expresses some sympathy and empathy that

503
00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:45,360
Speaker 4: Teddy himself perhaps does not quite fully understand.

504
00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:48,880
Speaker 2: And that supports where I think I've come around to

505
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:55,040
Speaker 2: in terms of the casting of someone who's autistic for

506
00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:58,640
Speaker 2: this role and the approach to the character that way,

507
00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:01,560
Speaker 2: Because while this is not an area of expertise for me,

508
00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:07,160
Speaker 2: my understanding is that sometimes the perception of people with

509
00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:12,080
Speaker 2: autism is that they don't have empathy because they don't

510
00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:15,920
Speaker 2: express empathy the way we do. And while that's often

511
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:19,800
Speaker 2: the case, that's obscuring the fact that they can feel

512
00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:24,720
Speaker 2: empathy at a greater level than sometimes you or I might, Josh,

513
00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:27,440
Speaker 2: and so I actually think that that's what you see

514
00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:31,200
Speaker 2: come through. And we can point to exhibit A, B,

515
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:35,240
Speaker 2: and C with that character, with the Dawn character throughout

516
00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:39,400
Speaker 2: this movie, where he seems to be exhibiting a greater

517
00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:43,719
Speaker 2: sense of empathy and compassion certainly then Teddy does. And

518
00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:47,000
Speaker 2: that line right there that you mentioned is maybe exhibit

519
00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:47,719
Speaker 2: a of it.

520
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:52,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, and certainly in his relationship's relationship, how he treats Michelle,

521
00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:55,440
Speaker 4: we should say who is Yes, he's hostage, but it's

522
00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:58,520
Speaker 4: very different than the way Teddy does. Yes.

523
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:01,800
Speaker 2: Pegunia is current lay out in wide release. If you

524
00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:04,280
Speaker 2: see it and agree or disagree with our takes, and

525
00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:06,880
Speaker 2: I feel like we're going to get some disagreement, Josh,

526
00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:10,280
Speaker 2: and we would welcome that you can email us feedback

527
00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:13,320
Speaker 2: at filmspotting dot net. We may share some of that

528
00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:16,000
Speaker 2: feedback on a future show.

529
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:17,520
Speaker 3: Next up.

530
00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:22,760
Speaker 2: Jennifer Lawrence and Robert Pattinson in Lynn Ramseys Die My Love.

531
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:25,120
Speaker 4: Cheryl have mentioned that you're a writer.

532
00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:30,480
Speaker 3: I don't do that anymore. Stuck for inspiration, I'm stuck

533
00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:33,200
Speaker 3: between wanting to do something and not wanting to do.

534
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:36,840
Speaker 4: Anything at all.

535
00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:41,680
Speaker 2: Die My Love is Lynn Ramsey's first feature since twenty

536
00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:44,840
Speaker 2: seventeen's You Were Never Really Here, with Joaquin Phoenix as

537
00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:47,920
Speaker 2: a traumatized vet who hunts down missing girls. The new

538
00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:50,400
Speaker 2: film stars Jennifer Lawrence and what feels like the former

539
00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:54,320
Speaker 2: Oscar winner's first role of significance since Aronofsky's Mother in

540
00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:57,400
Speaker 2: twenty seventeen. Or maybe I'm just saying that because we

541
00:31:57,440 --> 00:31:59,800
Speaker 2: haven't reviewed a Lawrence starring film.

542
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:00,840
Speaker 3: That long, though.

543
00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:04,240
Speaker 2: I think I gave some love to the indie film Causeway,

544
00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:06,960
Speaker 2: which she's very good in, and she was in the

545
00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:09,560
Speaker 2: twenty twenty three comedy No Hard Feelings that may have

546
00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:12,880
Speaker 2: got a little bit of attention on the show. There's

547
00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:16,400
Speaker 2: a couple others sprinkled in there here. She plays Grace,

548
00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:20,320
Speaker 2: a writer and young mother who is descending into madness.

549
00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:23,600
Speaker 2: Her husband is played by Pattinson Josh before we get

550
00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:26,400
Speaker 2: into the film itself. I don't know if you have

551
00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:31,520
Speaker 2: any thoughts on Lawrence in respect to Emma Stone, because

552
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:35,680
Speaker 2: those are two actors about the same age, both Oscar winners,

553
00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:40,080
Speaker 2: both have juggled franchised and studio work with O tour

554
00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:43,400
Speaker 2: driven projects. Both are gifted comic and dramatic actors. And

555
00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:45,800
Speaker 2: we almost went with a poll this week. In fact,

556
00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:48,640
Speaker 2: that was your preferred poll this week, pitting the two

557
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:55,080
Speaker 2: against each other. We thought, we being myself and producer Sam,

558
00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:57,320
Speaker 2: that it would just be too much of a runaway

559
00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:01,640
Speaker 2: for Stone really based on the output, so much output

560
00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:07,040
Speaker 2: and generally acclaimed output from Stone compared to Lawrence in

561
00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:11,680
Speaker 2: recent years. But if anybody I know would vote for Lawrence,

562
00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:16,800
Speaker 2: I think it would be you. So maybe some thoughts

563
00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:18,000
Speaker 2: on Lawrence v.

564
00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:18,479
Speaker 3: Stone.

565
00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:21,959
Speaker 2: And also is it Lawrence in her performance that Carrie

566
00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:25,680
Speaker 2: die my love for you? Because she really is what

567
00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:29,800
Speaker 2: carries this film. This film is a showcase for her.

568
00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:34,360
Speaker 2: As much as Ramsey's visuals may be at the four

569
00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:38,280
Speaker 2: and as much as we may look at the the

570
00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:40,880
Speaker 2: marketing of this film or anything that we've seen in

571
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:44,040
Speaker 2: terms of the trailers thinking of it as a two

572
00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:48,160
Speaker 2: hander with Pattinson and Lawrence, it's really Lawrence's movie.

573
00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:51,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, I was lobbying for that poll, because you know,

574
00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:54,320
Speaker 4: as we've said here, poles are pain and for me

575
00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:56,479
Speaker 4: at least, having to choose between the two of them

576
00:33:56,520 --> 00:33:59,360
Speaker 4: would be quite difficult. I'm glad it didn't win out

577
00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:01,239
Speaker 4: because now i'd have to give you an answer. If

578
00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:05,880
Speaker 4: it's not an official poll, I'm not gonna tell you it.

579
00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:09,799
Speaker 4: It is maybe something that I'll say this and it

580
00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:13,239
Speaker 4: relates to your description of what you appreciate it. I

581
00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:16,560
Speaker 4: appreciate about Stone in Bogonia and calling out a couple

582
00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:19,480
Speaker 4: of lines and her delivery, and I do think if

583
00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:21,840
Speaker 4: there's a distinction between the two. And this isn't to

584
00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:24,799
Speaker 4: say one is quote unquote better than the other, but

585
00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:30,520
Speaker 4: perhaps it's that that crisp nailing a line to perfection

586
00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:34,320
Speaker 4: that Emma Stone can do. And I think of Lawrence,

587
00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:37,080
Speaker 4: and maybe it's because of Die My Love. Here we'll

588
00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:43,000
Speaker 4: get into it as more of a physical performer and

589
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:47,359
Speaker 4: maybe less about the line deliveries. Now, both of them

590
00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:50,080
Speaker 4: can do both of those things, but just when I

591
00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:53,600
Speaker 4: think of them and what pops out first. But maybe

592
00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:55,399
Speaker 4: I am clouded, as I said, with Die My Love,

593
00:34:55,480 --> 00:35:00,000
Speaker 4: because this is such a performance about Jennifer Lawrence's nonverbal

594
00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:04,880
Speaker 4: choices in a role that is somewhat familiar. Yes, the

595
00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:10,720
Speaker 4: Aronofsky mother comparisons are fitting here, and you know any

596
00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:15,040
Speaker 4: sort of other film that exploring a woman who is

597
00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:18,920
Speaker 4: pregnant or a young mother and struggling with that experience.

598
00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:24,719
Speaker 4: So she makes this her own a somewhat familiar part

599
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:28,040
Speaker 4: by these nonverbal choices. And I'll just name a few,

600
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:30,600
Speaker 4: and even people who have only seen the trailer are

601
00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:34,160
Speaker 4: going to recognize a few of them. The way she

602
00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:37,560
Speaker 4: drops down in her kitchen, her torso forward, like this

603
00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:41,799
Speaker 4: lifeless rag doll. It's repeated. It's such a for me,

604
00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:46,960
Speaker 4: like a visceral response to life, that it's repeated by

605
00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:51,520
Speaker 4: Ramsey in a vision sequence as well. Later but even

606
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:55,239
Speaker 4: more mundane touches. How about when she's walking around the

607
00:35:55,239 --> 00:35:59,480
Speaker 4: house and kicking at this loaded laundry basket with this

608
00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:02,480
Speaker 4: idle manner that it's almost like someone like a kid

609
00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:04,759
Speaker 4: would kick a piece of roadkill along the side of

610
00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:06,839
Speaker 4: the road, just her choice of doing it that way.

611
00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:11,279
Speaker 4: How About the scene where she's been nursing her son

612
00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:14,040
Speaker 4: in the middle of the night, her husband's asleep, it's

613
00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:17,480
Speaker 4: all quiet, and she just gets up and starts wandering around.

614
00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:21,520
Speaker 4: And one breast is still exposed. It's just like again,

615
00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:25,840
Speaker 4: this notion of being in a space but not really

616
00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:29,719
Speaker 4: in a space, and Lawrence captures that by how she,

617
00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:34,000
Speaker 4: as an actor, inhabits the space. So it's it's a

618
00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:36,920
Speaker 4: gripping performance that I agree with you as I think

619
00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:39,640
Speaker 4: you were suggesting. Carries this movie is the reason to

620
00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:42,919
Speaker 4: see this movie, and it's one that's maybe more about

621
00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:47,680
Speaker 4: the inhabiting of a body than necessarily delivering words and

622
00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:50,799
Speaker 4: sanctimonious means that you think you're morally superior to other people.

623
00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:52,560
Speaker 3: Don who is your book going on Away?

624
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:56,719
Speaker 4: Your great American novel? The main character is about to

625
00:36:56,880 --> 00:37:00,759
Speaker 4: batter her husband to death with a Hammer's you can't read?

626
00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:09,600
Speaker 3: So maybe I spend time pants writing. Maybe i'd write something.

627
00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:12,440
Speaker 2: Maybe my hands are down my pants because you put

628
00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:21,319
Speaker 2: your everywhere except there a whole. I think you make

629
00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:25,560
Speaker 2: a really good case there for the distinction between Lawrence

630
00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:29,799
Speaker 2: and Stone, though I also think about Stone as a

631
00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:35,120
Speaker 2: physical actress, maybe not as physical, but as a physical actress,

632
00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:38,839
Speaker 2: And so maybe for me the distinction is a little

633
00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:43,640
Speaker 2: bit more about Stone being cerebral, a bit more cerebral,

634
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:48,760
Speaker 2: versus Lawrence feeling more like an instinctual actress, and that

635
00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:53,919
Speaker 2: that instinct that the way she inhabits her body, which

636
00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:57,080
Speaker 2: is I think where you're getting that physicality from, that's

637
00:37:57,080 --> 00:38:01,000
Speaker 2: certainly on display here in.

638
00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:00,759
Speaker 3: In this role.

639
00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:03,439
Speaker 2: And that instinct too comes from the fact that most

640
00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:06,920
Speaker 2: of the movie quite honestly, most of the movies in exaggeration,

641
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:08,040
Speaker 2: but only a slight one.

642
00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:08,440
Speaker 3: Josh.

643
00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:11,920
Speaker 2: It feels like most of the movie she's on all fours,

644
00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:15,440
Speaker 2: crawling around her kitchen or crawling around the grass. Right

645
00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:21,680
Speaker 2: this movie, a lot of the imagery is animalistic imagery.

646
00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:25,520
Speaker 2: She's on the prow quite often in this movie. I

647
00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:28,440
Speaker 2: have to say, it's funny how this happens, somehow, the

648
00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:31,719
Speaker 2: coincidences and the way things align, and I always pointed out,

649
00:38:31,719 --> 00:38:35,640
Speaker 2: but I can't help it. Randomly, we watched these films

650
00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:40,279
Speaker 2: and Begonia and it was just an accident, which we're

651
00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:45,480
Speaker 2: going to talk about later, having common abductions by seemingly

652
00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:52,640
Speaker 2: incompetent kidnappers, cases of mistaken identities. This weekend I also

653
00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:56,080
Speaker 2: saw Die My Love, and before that, I saw If

654
00:38:56,120 --> 00:38:58,600
Speaker 2: I had legs, I'd Kick You, the Mary Bronstein film.

655
00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:02,000
Speaker 2: So I saw two movies about moms and how did

656
00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:04,239
Speaker 2: Mariah Gates and I put it a year or so ago.

657
00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:08,120
Speaker 2: Moms going through it more than going through it. These

658
00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:13,520
Speaker 2: are moms losing it right, moms absolutely losing it. And

659
00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:16,040
Speaker 2: the movies even use some of the same imagery, some

660
00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:20,960
Speaker 2: of the same abstract imagery, like the I like the

661
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:24,719
Speaker 2: Bronstein film a lot more than I like Die My Love.

662
00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:29,359
Speaker 2: Something unique happened, at least unique for me. I can't

663
00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:32,440
Speaker 2: remember another time this has happened. I saw the trailer

664
00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:35,440
Speaker 2: for Die I Love for the first time the next

665
00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:38,040
Speaker 2: day after I saw the movie. I saw it before

666
00:39:38,080 --> 00:39:43,800
Speaker 2: I watched Pegonia, and it actually, watching the trailer actually

667
00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:49,400
Speaker 2: captured my exact experience with the movie. Unlike trailers that

668
00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:54,320
Speaker 2: try to summarize what the movie is about and capture

669
00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:57,160
Speaker 2: the narrative, if you will, watching the Dime I Love

670
00:39:57,239 --> 00:40:01,440
Speaker 2: trailer actually for me felt EXAs exactly like what it

671
00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:05,719
Speaker 2: felt like to watch the movie. The elliptical form, the

672
00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:09,840
Speaker 2: visual and stylistic propulsion of it, the absence of story

673
00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:14,320
Speaker 2: or meaning really, unless you're driving meaning from the style.

674
00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:18,760
Speaker 2: It was as if Josh the Die My Love bottle

675
00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:23,759
Speaker 2: had been distilled into a potent shot. And I don't

676
00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:26,800
Speaker 2: mean that as a cheap shot, like just watch the trailer.

677
00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:31,200
Speaker 2: It's a glorified trailer. No, of course, the movie justifies itself.

678
00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:35,040
Speaker 2: Ramsey's too good of a filmmaker, and Lawrence and Pattinson

679
00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:36,719
Speaker 2: are too good as performers.

680
00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:38,200
Speaker 3: But I didn't.

681
00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:42,719
Speaker 2: I didn't derive any more pleasure or more meaning necessarily

682
00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:48,440
Speaker 2: from the movie. Its narrative never catches up to its elusive,

683
00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:52,160
Speaker 2: occasionally unsettling imagery.

684
00:40:52,239 --> 00:40:53,719
Speaker 3: It didn't. It didn't for me.

685
00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:58,440
Speaker 4: It does go somewhere that the trailer doesn't, and we

686
00:40:58,520 --> 00:41:01,239
Speaker 4: won't spoil that, but it goes somewhere that I would

687
00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:08,080
Speaker 4: say again, Ramsey another filmmaker interested in bleakness, like Yurgo

688
00:41:08,120 --> 00:41:10,839
Speaker 4: slanthemos Is. They're different in many ways, but I think

689
00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:16,160
Speaker 4: they share that in common. And this is decidedly bleak

690
00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:20,360
Speaker 4: also because we're giving context for these directors' careers. In

691
00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:23,600
Speaker 4: this case, she's adapting a novel from twenty twelve, so

692
00:41:24,360 --> 00:41:28,840
Speaker 4: and working with co screenwriters Alice Birch and Walsh. But

693
00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:33,359
Speaker 4: it did fit nicely with a lot of her other pictures.

694
00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:37,440
Speaker 4: For me, rat Ketcher, Marvern Keller, you were never really here,

695
00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:40,680
Speaker 4: and we need to talk about Kevin Adam. I struggled

696
00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:45,279
Speaker 4: with Lynn Ramsey's films, and I felt I owed it

697
00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:48,960
Speaker 4: to her before seeing Die My Love, and especially her

698
00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:51,520
Speaker 4: being a Scottish director, and I was ashamed to run

699
00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:53,880
Speaker 4: into people here in Scotland and say that I haven't

700
00:41:53,920 --> 00:41:56,200
Speaker 4: seen all of her movies. So I've been playing a

701
00:41:56,200 --> 00:41:59,760
Speaker 4: little catch up and did watch rat Ketcher and Marvern Caller,

702
00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:04,720
Speaker 4: and I got to say, I'm glad I saw Marvern Caller.

703
00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:07,160
Speaker 4: I think it's my favorite of hers, though it is

704
00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:11,360
Speaker 4: not a film I'm hugely enamored with rat Catcher. I

705
00:42:11,480 --> 00:42:16,920
Speaker 4: found quite distressing in its obsession with miserableism, and I

706
00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:20,160
Speaker 4: think you can see that in some other choices she

707
00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:24,560
Speaker 4: makes as a filmmaker. Now, I think Die My Love

708
00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:28,640
Speaker 4: is maybe my second favorite film of hers, after Marverne Caller,

709
00:42:28,719 --> 00:42:31,360
Speaker 4: because well two things. It has a bit of a focus.

710
00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:36,000
Speaker 4: I actually thought narratively in choosing this story of a

711
00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:41,120
Speaker 4: woman's particular experience with postpartum depression, a severe case, that

712
00:42:41,160 --> 00:42:44,560
Speaker 4: gave the movie a specificity and a locale and a

713
00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:48,960
Speaker 4: focus and something other than just pure misery to consider,

714
00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:51,520
Speaker 4: and so I did appreciate that about it, and I

715
00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:54,640
Speaker 4: think Marvern Caller does as well in this character played

716
00:42:54,640 --> 00:42:56,759
Speaker 4: by Samantha Morton. I won't get into the plot, but

717
00:42:57,280 --> 00:43:00,799
Speaker 4: I read that as an exploration of Greek, okay, and

718
00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:05,160
Speaker 4: so these were some more specific things that the misery

719
00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:08,480
Speaker 4: could be hung on. So I did appreciate that about

720
00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:10,640
Speaker 4: Die My Love, but it did not win me over

721
00:43:10,719 --> 00:43:14,280
Speaker 4: really to become someone who is as enthusiastic about Ramsey's

722
00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:17,080
Speaker 4: work as I know so many people are. So I'm

723
00:43:17,120 --> 00:43:20,719
Speaker 4: a bit disappointed in that. Also, maybe a bit disappointed

724
00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:22,799
Speaker 4: in that Pattinson wasn't used a.

725
00:43:22,719 --> 00:43:23,359
Speaker 3: Little bit more.

726
00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:26,560
Speaker 4: I'm fine with him being second Banana. I think he's

727
00:43:26,640 --> 00:43:29,600
Speaker 4: the generous sort of actor who is good, is good

728
00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:33,080
Speaker 4: at that, and I think he's he's good here, but

729
00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:35,719
Speaker 4: maybe he's too good to do it here. By that,

730
00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:38,560
Speaker 4: I mean when you have someone of this caliber, it

731
00:43:38,600 --> 00:43:41,200
Speaker 4: can be a bit distracting when they're not given a

732
00:43:41,200 --> 00:43:43,160
Speaker 4: little more to do, even though they shouldn't be in

733
00:43:43,160 --> 00:43:45,919
Speaker 4: this particular movie. Did you follow that? Does that make

734
00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:47,160
Speaker 4: any sense at all?

735
00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:48,480
Speaker 3: It makes perfect sense.

736
00:43:48,680 --> 00:43:53,400
Speaker 2: Too good to do it here is a perfect summation, Josh,

737
00:43:53,440 --> 00:43:57,680
Speaker 2: because besides working with Ramsey, which I can understand why

738
00:43:57,719 --> 00:43:59,960
Speaker 2: an actor would want to do that, and working with Lawrence,

739
00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:02,719
Speaker 2: which I can understand why an actor would want to

740
00:44:02,760 --> 00:44:05,560
Speaker 2: do that. I am still a little bit mystified about

741
00:44:05,560 --> 00:44:09,200
Speaker 2: what drew him to this character, who I think has

742
00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:16,440
Speaker 2: very little to do except express slightly different variations on concern, confusion,

743
00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:22,759
Speaker 2: and dismay at his wife's behavior. There's very minimal development,

744
00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:26,479
Speaker 2: and there's just minimal to this character. As I said,

745
00:44:26,480 --> 00:44:31,480
Speaker 2: this movie is a showcase for Lawrence, so I watching

746
00:44:31,520 --> 00:44:35,640
Speaker 2: it really felt like Pattinson was wasted as a performer,

747
00:44:35,680 --> 00:44:39,279
Speaker 2: and I think Lawrence to some extent is wasted too,

748
00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:43,280
Speaker 2: because I think she's working very hard with very little

749
00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:45,320
Speaker 2: on the page, and I think there are moments where

750
00:44:45,560 --> 00:44:48,120
Speaker 2: the actress and director are in perfect sync, even the

751
00:44:48,160 --> 00:44:54,120
Speaker 2: opening sequence. I really enjoyed the introduction, this static take,

752
00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:57,400
Speaker 2: this long take Lawrence and Pattinson arriving at the house

753
00:44:57,440 --> 00:45:02,719
Speaker 2: that they're moving into camera, just sitting there as they

754
00:45:03,239 --> 00:45:08,360
Speaker 2: move about the space. It felt so appropriate them trying

755
00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:10,919
Speaker 2: to get comfortable within it and they never really are,

756
00:45:11,120 --> 00:45:13,160
Speaker 2: And just how it brought me into the world and

757
00:45:13,280 --> 00:45:16,680
Speaker 2: introduced me to those characters while also showing me that

758
00:45:16,760 --> 00:45:21,279
Speaker 2: something is just kind of off. The vividness, the two

759
00:45:21,600 --> 00:45:25,200
Speaker 2: vividness of the colors and the lens felt like it

760
00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:29,440
Speaker 2: was just subtly elongating the frame vertically a little bit,

761
00:45:29,480 --> 00:45:33,200
Speaker 2: And so it's reality, but it's also a hyper sort

762
00:45:33,200 --> 00:45:36,759
Speaker 2: of reality. I thought that all worked really well, But Josh,

763
00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:37,480
Speaker 2: go ahead and jump in.

764
00:45:37,719 --> 00:45:39,440
Speaker 4: I was just going to add because I agree with

765
00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:41,560
Speaker 4: you about that observation about that opening set piece, and

766
00:45:41,600 --> 00:45:43,920
Speaker 4: part of it for me was a brilliant piece of

767
00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:48,200
Speaker 4: set design, production design. You see three layers of wallpaper

768
00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:51,560
Speaker 4: because you're looking from a back room into other rooms

769
00:45:51,600 --> 00:45:54,480
Speaker 4: out the front door, and it was distressing for me

770
00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:57,000
Speaker 4: to notice. It's something like a floral pattern, but each

771
00:45:57,080 --> 00:45:59,840
Speaker 4: room has a different one, and it was so disorient

772
00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:02,080
Speaker 4: and it captured exactly what you're talking about. So I

773
00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:03,200
Speaker 4: just wanted to throw that in.

774
00:46:03,480 --> 00:46:08,040
Speaker 2: No, and that is like the entire film, disorienting by design.

775
00:46:08,120 --> 00:46:11,240
Speaker 2: And to go back to my point about the trailer,

776
00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:16,280
Speaker 2: it all feels like a memory inside a dream, something

777
00:46:16,360 --> 00:46:22,760
Speaker 2: emanating almost from within her characters, from within Grace's fractured psyche,

778
00:46:23,320 --> 00:46:27,160
Speaker 2: except the narrative isn't framed that way, so there's this

779
00:46:27,320 --> 00:46:30,560
Speaker 2: constant disassociation with reality.

780
00:46:31,320 --> 00:46:32,000
Speaker 3: As a viewer.

781
00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:36,080
Speaker 2: I was watching this film thinking for a while what

782
00:46:37,239 --> 00:46:40,200
Speaker 2: state are we in, what literal state are we in?

783
00:46:40,440 --> 00:46:44,040
Speaker 2: What decade is it? Forget what year is it? And

784
00:46:44,120 --> 00:46:49,400
Speaker 2: you mentioned postpartum depression, absolutely true, but also the way

785
00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:53,319
Speaker 2: that's handled is also something that didn't feel like it

786
00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:57,120
Speaker 2: was being treated like in any reality or like in

787
00:46:57,160 --> 00:47:01,400
Speaker 2: any reality within the modern day. So that added to

788
00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:05,440
Speaker 2: that further state of disassociation for me, that further state

789
00:47:05,520 --> 00:47:08,200
Speaker 2: of confusion, and you almost wondered actually whether or not

790
00:47:08,320 --> 00:47:11,319
Speaker 2: the movie wanted to suggest that there was there was

791
00:47:11,440 --> 00:47:16,320
Speaker 2: unstableness with her character that predates the postpartum depression, because

792
00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:21,719
Speaker 2: it's treating of its treatment of postpartum depression felt so abstract,

793
00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:24,920
Speaker 2: like so much of the film otherwise did. To me,

794
00:47:25,480 --> 00:47:28,840
Speaker 2: I found it hard to grasp in a way that

795
00:47:28,920 --> 00:47:31,279
Speaker 2: I understand to some extent the movies trying to be,

796
00:47:31,960 --> 00:47:35,080
Speaker 2: but also I thought, here again I thought was too elusive.

797
00:47:35,080 --> 00:47:38,400
Speaker 2: And also some of the imagery, some of that imagery

798
00:47:38,640 --> 00:47:42,520
Speaker 2: is really compelling, and then some of it felt overdone,

799
00:47:43,040 --> 00:47:46,320
Speaker 2: all of the animalistic on the prowl imagery that don't

800
00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:50,759
Speaker 2: worry Darling esque trapped in a cage, trapped in an aquarium,

801
00:47:51,239 --> 00:47:55,560
Speaker 2: reliance on glass and her behind it, and going up

802
00:47:55,600 --> 00:47:58,759
Speaker 2: to it. I had a hard time, as much as

803
00:47:58,800 --> 00:48:01,160
Speaker 2: I wanted to get on the wave link with this film,

804
00:48:01,160 --> 00:48:03,680
Speaker 2: because of some of the imagery that was really vivid,

805
00:48:03,719 --> 00:48:06,279
Speaker 2: and because of the performers. I had a hard time

806
00:48:06,360 --> 00:48:08,560
Speaker 2: getting on the wavelink with Die my Love.

807
00:48:08,840 --> 00:48:11,600
Speaker 4: This can be a tricky thing when it comes to

808
00:48:11,719 --> 00:48:17,040
Speaker 4: imagery and using symbolism in movies, and Ramsey is absolutely

809
00:48:17,120 --> 00:48:19,840
Speaker 4: a gifted eye. You can see that right away in

810
00:48:20,320 --> 00:48:24,880
Speaker 4: rat Catcher. You know knows how to capture arresting imagery.

811
00:48:25,400 --> 00:48:28,799
Speaker 4: At the same time, you can see a shot that

812
00:48:29,200 --> 00:48:32,600
Speaker 4: just jumps out at you and feels like a thud,

813
00:48:33,440 --> 00:48:36,560
Speaker 4: and another person might find it very deeply resonant. I

814
00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:40,479
Speaker 4: do find in her work that you get both. You'll

815
00:48:40,480 --> 00:48:44,760
Speaker 4: get some thuds there with the resonance, and in this case,

816
00:48:45,440 --> 00:48:47,480
Speaker 4: you know there's something interesting going on where a lot

817
00:48:47,480 --> 00:48:49,719
Speaker 4: of the daytime scenes are very vivid in a way

818
00:48:49,760 --> 00:48:52,920
Speaker 4: you described, and then she chooses this monochrome for the

819
00:48:53,000 --> 00:48:56,000
Speaker 4: nighttime scenes that I think are also used for potential

820
00:48:56,080 --> 00:48:59,120
Speaker 4: visions at times. That's where the movie is sort of

821
00:48:59,120 --> 00:49:02,239
Speaker 4: playing games with as but one of those visions. I

822
00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:06,160
Speaker 4: gotta say, if if an argument between this couple is

823
00:49:06,239 --> 00:49:09,719
Speaker 4: she's complaining they don't have sex enough, and then that

824
00:49:09,880 --> 00:49:13,480
Speaker 4: night she looks out into the yard and a stallion

825
00:49:13,800 --> 00:49:17,560
Speaker 4: is racing past. For me, that's a bit of a thud.

826
00:49:17,800 --> 00:49:19,080
Speaker 4: I gotta say dime.

827
00:49:19,080 --> 00:49:21,520
Speaker 2: I love currently playing in wide release. If you see it,

828
00:49:21,560 --> 00:49:24,120
Speaker 2: we would love to hear your feedback that email as

829
00:49:24,160 --> 00:49:27,000
Speaker 2: always feedback at filmspotting dot net.

830
00:49:27,200 --> 00:49:30,160
Speaker 4: Adam, let's take a quick minute to thank a Film

831
00:49:30,200 --> 00:49:33,960
Speaker 4: Spotting family member for being part of the family. We

832
00:49:34,040 --> 00:49:37,800
Speaker 4: want to thank Carston, who is in Cologne, Germany. Carston's

833
00:49:37,840 --> 00:49:40,759
Speaker 4: been listening. Carson's been listening longer than I have, to

834
00:49:40,800 --> 00:49:44,160
Speaker 4: be honest with you. He started during the Maddie Ballgame

835
00:49:44,600 --> 00:49:48,399
Speaker 4: era and his favorite segment from Film Spotting. He wanted

836
00:49:48,400 --> 00:49:50,480
Speaker 4: to share, Well, this does come from my time. It

837
00:49:50,560 --> 00:49:54,480
Speaker 4: was the Apoo trilogy that we did during our satuge

838
00:49:54,719 --> 00:49:59,480
Speaker 4: Rey marathon. We did ask Carston which review we got wrong.

839
00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:02,080
Speaker 4: He gave this reply. We're gonna have to kind of

840
00:50:02,120 --> 00:50:06,280
Speaker 4: figure out what he's saying here, Adam. Before Sunrise amongst

841
00:50:06,280 --> 00:50:12,440
Speaker 4: the greatest films ever. So is he's suggesting I love

842
00:50:12,480 --> 00:50:15,640
Speaker 4: before Sunrise? I mean, come on, I am all in

843
00:50:15,719 --> 00:50:17,759
Speaker 4: on before Sunrise. But I'm not the one who has

844
00:50:17,760 --> 00:50:19,560
Speaker 4: it on his top ton of all time? So is

845
00:50:19,600 --> 00:50:22,040
Speaker 4: that a complaint about your placement?

846
00:50:22,520 --> 00:50:25,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's what it seems like. And I am

847
00:50:25,160 --> 00:50:30,000
Speaker 2: now not inclined to read or to further thank Carston.

848
00:50:31,320 --> 00:50:32,560
Speaker 3: Were just stop there?

849
00:50:33,360 --> 00:50:36,440
Speaker 2: Wow? No, I guess I will thank Carston for being

850
00:50:36,480 --> 00:50:39,160
Speaker 2: a family member for all of those years of support,

851
00:50:39,480 --> 00:50:44,200
Speaker 2: despite apparently my silly opinions about movies like that one

852
00:50:44,239 --> 00:50:46,879
Speaker 2: from Richard Link later. In addition to keeping us doing

853
00:50:46,880 --> 00:50:50,160
Speaker 2: what we're doing, family membership comes with perks. You get

854
00:50:50,160 --> 00:50:53,120
Speaker 2: to listen early in ad free, you get our weekly newsletter.

855
00:50:53,360 --> 00:50:56,319
Speaker 2: You get exclusive opportunities like being part of the film

856
00:50:56,360 --> 00:51:00,920
Speaker 2: Spotting Family Discord. You get monthly bonus show like you

857
00:51:00,960 --> 00:51:04,200
Speaker 2: get to hear the entire Tom Cruise draft with family

858
00:51:04,239 --> 00:51:06,479
Speaker 2: members zat Cook. You get to listen to that draft

859
00:51:06,560 --> 00:51:08,960
Speaker 2: and then vote for the winner. And you get to

860
00:51:09,080 --> 00:51:14,160
Speaker 2: make sure that Josh finishes last in that Tom Cruise draft.

861
00:51:14,480 --> 00:51:16,440
Speaker 4: By design as I designed it.

862
00:51:16,640 --> 00:51:17,239
Speaker 3: There you go.

863
00:51:18,440 --> 00:51:22,279
Speaker 2: November's bonus will be an ask us Anything That means

864
00:51:22,280 --> 00:51:24,400
Speaker 2: you get to ask us well anything.

865
00:51:24,760 --> 00:51:26,000
Speaker 3: We may not answer it.

866
00:51:26,440 --> 00:51:29,680
Speaker 2: We don't answer anything, but it's called ask us Anything,

867
00:51:29,760 --> 00:51:33,520
Speaker 2: and it's not exclusive to family members. The show is

868
00:51:33,600 --> 00:51:36,160
Speaker 2: exclusive to family members, but we might answer a question

869
00:51:36,239 --> 00:51:39,440
Speaker 2: from anybody, So you can send us a question feedback

870
00:51:39,480 --> 00:51:42,200
Speaker 2: at filmspotting dot net. Put ask us anything in the

871
00:51:42,239 --> 00:51:45,600
Speaker 2: subject line that will be November's bonus show. If you

872
00:51:45,719 --> 00:51:48,600
Speaker 2: like to learn more about joining the film Spotting Family,

873
00:51:48,719 --> 00:51:52,200
Speaker 2: you can learn more at Filmspottingfamily dot com. And I

874
00:51:52,280 --> 00:51:55,120
Speaker 2: know this seems kind of silly to do after all

875
00:51:55,160 --> 00:51:58,200
Speaker 2: these years, but we really like to maintain that very

876
00:51:58,360 --> 00:52:02,359
Speaker 2: high score we have at Apple and Spotify. I think

877
00:52:02,400 --> 00:52:05,960
Speaker 2: on Spotify still after hundreds, not as many as Apple

878
00:52:06,000 --> 00:52:09,640
Speaker 2: because Apple goes back twenty years, but after several hundred

879
00:52:09,680 --> 00:52:12,279
Speaker 2: reviews we still have a five I think, and the

880
00:52:12,320 --> 00:52:15,279
Speaker 2: Apple rating is four point six or seven Josh, so

881
00:52:15,760 --> 00:52:20,160
Speaker 2: pretty high high score on both platforms, and those reviews

882
00:52:20,520 --> 00:52:23,719
Speaker 2: do help us reach new listeners. So if you have

883
00:52:23,880 --> 00:52:26,040
Speaker 2: not ever taken the time to rate us or to

884
00:52:26,080 --> 00:52:29,680
Speaker 2: write a nice little comment, hey, maybe take the time

885
00:52:29,719 --> 00:52:30,080
Speaker 2: to do it.

886
00:52:30,280 --> 00:52:30,719
Speaker 4: Why not.

887
00:52:33,800 --> 00:52:36,439
Speaker 2: Movies you might be able to check out for free

888
00:52:36,560 --> 00:52:40,839
Speaker 2: right now as a regal unlimited member. Marty Supreme number

889
00:52:40,920 --> 00:52:44,000
Speaker 2: nine on Alison Wilmore's list an eleven through twenty pick

890
00:52:44,040 --> 00:52:47,520
Speaker 2: for me incredible performance from Timothy shallow May that is

891
00:52:47,600 --> 00:52:51,399
Speaker 2: playing right now at Regal. And we've talked a little

892
00:52:51,440 --> 00:52:54,600
Speaker 2: bit about some of these picks. We've highlighted some of

893
00:52:54,640 --> 00:52:58,879
Speaker 2: these repertory movies, the limited engagements. Josh that Regal has

894
00:52:58,920 --> 00:53:02,760
Speaker 2: been shown at some of their theaters, and I'm looking

895
00:53:02,800 --> 00:53:07,280
Speaker 2: at rgmovies dot com and they have a limited engagement

896
00:53:07,360 --> 00:53:13,160
Speaker 2: right now for It's what is it? It's fortieth anniversary.

897
00:53:13,520 --> 00:53:17,040
Speaker 2: It's thirtieth, Okay, only thirty years. Shouldn't age it like

898
00:53:17,080 --> 00:53:22,719
Speaker 2: that thirtieth anniversary of a movie. I somehow I can't

899
00:53:22,719 --> 00:53:25,840
Speaker 2: believe I've been admitting this. I have somehow never seen

900
00:53:25,880 --> 00:53:30,640
Speaker 2: this film, despite the fact that it stars two incredible actresses,

901
00:53:31,200 --> 00:53:34,920
Speaker 2: including one who I've always claimed to be a huge,

902
00:53:35,040 --> 00:53:38,160
Speaker 2: huge fan of. And I may have to rectify this

903
00:53:38,360 --> 00:53:40,560
Speaker 2: now by seeing it on the big screen, getting a

904
00:53:40,640 --> 00:53:42,160
Speaker 2: chance to see it on the big screen at a

905
00:53:42,200 --> 00:53:45,920
Speaker 2: Regal cinema. Sense and Sensibility.

906
00:53:46,760 --> 00:53:48,040
Speaker 4: Angling way to do it.

907
00:53:48,320 --> 00:53:51,920
Speaker 2: Great director too, Kate Winslett, the actress I'm referring to,

908
00:53:51,960 --> 00:53:55,400
Speaker 2: the great Emma Thompson. Never seen Sense and Sensibility. And

909
00:53:55,480 --> 00:53:58,600
Speaker 2: if you're like me, maybe you're embarrassed about it like me.

910
00:53:59,320 --> 00:54:01,560
Speaker 2: You can check that out now at Regal Cinemas and

911
00:54:01,640 --> 00:54:05,720
Speaker 2: maybe see it for free with that Regal Unlimited membership.

912
00:54:05,800 --> 00:54:08,800
Speaker 2: Regal Unlimited is the all you can watch movie subscription

913
00:54:08,880 --> 00:54:11,440
Speaker 2: pass that pays for itself in just two visits, and

914
00:54:11,520 --> 00:54:15,280
Speaker 2: Regal is offering film spotting listeners endless movies for less.

915
00:54:15,320 --> 00:54:16,880
Speaker 2: All you have to do is sign up using the

916
00:54:16,880 --> 00:54:19,919
Speaker 2: code film Spot twenty five. That's film Spot twenty five,

917
00:54:20,160 --> 00:54:22,840
Speaker 2: and you'll get ten percent off a three month subscription.

918
00:54:23,360 --> 00:54:27,200
Speaker 2: It is the only truly limitless movie subscription pass, and

919
00:54:27,880 --> 00:54:30,359
Speaker 2: you don't just save money on tickets, you also save

920
00:54:30,520 --> 00:54:35,480
Speaker 2: on snacks. You get ten percent off all non alcoholic concessions.

921
00:54:36,080 --> 00:54:39,320
Speaker 2: You can see any standard two D movie anytime, no blockout,

922
00:54:39,400 --> 00:54:43,120
Speaker 2: dates or restrictions. We encourage you to sign up now

923
00:54:43,160 --> 00:54:46,120
Speaker 2: in the Regal app, or just click the link in

924
00:54:46,239 --> 00:54:49,920
Speaker 2: this show description and use that code film Spot twenty

925
00:54:49,920 --> 00:55:01,320
Speaker 2: five to receive your discount. You don't look like cops,

926
00:55:01,600 --> 00:55:02,200
Speaker 2: say James.

927
00:55:02,280 --> 00:55:04,880
Speaker 3: We've been told that you're mixed up in this robbery.

928
00:55:06,600 --> 00:55:08,840
Speaker 4: I sure don't know how you got down this, fore

929
00:55:09,760 --> 00:55:11,640
Speaker 4: you got the wrong idea. I'm afraid you got some

930
00:55:11,680 --> 00:55:12,960
Speaker 4: bad information.

931
00:55:13,480 --> 00:55:16,800
Speaker 2: You're listening to film spotting. Kelly Reikert is back. Josh

932
00:55:16,880 --> 00:55:21,279
Speaker 2: The Mastermind stars Josh O'Connor as not much of a mastermind,

933
00:55:21,560 --> 00:55:24,319
Speaker 2: in fact, not much of anything at all.

934
00:55:24,360 --> 00:55:25,239
Speaker 3: O'Connor's JB.

935
00:55:25,360 --> 00:55:29,000
Speaker 2: Mooney is an unemployed carpenter, a husband and father I

936
00:55:29,040 --> 00:55:32,840
Speaker 2: guess in name, and he is a schemer. It's nineteen

937
00:55:32,920 --> 00:55:36,960
Speaker 2: seventy western Massachusetts. Mooney decides to try and pull off

938
00:55:37,000 --> 00:55:40,200
Speaker 2: an art heist. Also in the film a lot of

939
00:55:40,239 --> 00:55:45,440
Speaker 2: Tim Hope, Davis, John Magaro, and Gabby Hoffman. Reikert's previous

940
00:55:45,440 --> 00:55:48,080
Speaker 2: film was showing up said in Portland, Oregon in the

941
00:55:48,200 --> 00:55:51,360
Speaker 2: art scene there here we are on the complete opposite

942
00:55:51,400 --> 00:55:54,279
Speaker 2: side of the country, but art is obviously still in

943
00:55:54,320 --> 00:55:57,239
Speaker 2: the mix. For Reikert, what did you think of The Mastermind?

944
00:55:57,400 --> 00:56:00,640
Speaker 4: Let's keep the acting talk going here on this show

945
00:56:00,840 --> 00:56:04,160
Speaker 4: at I mean Josh O'Connor. You know, I don't think

946
00:56:04,160 --> 00:56:06,040
Speaker 4: his performance here is going to get as much attention

947
00:56:06,280 --> 00:56:10,279
Speaker 4: as you know others that have been taking place in

948
00:56:10,320 --> 00:56:14,359
Speaker 4: this breakout run. He's been on definitely Challengers, probably even

949
00:56:14,400 --> 00:56:16,960
Speaker 4: something like the upcoming Wake Up dead Man the Knives

950
00:56:16,960 --> 00:56:19,120
Speaker 4: out film. The trailer I have seen for that, and

951
00:56:19,160 --> 00:56:23,800
Speaker 4: I think there are you know, livelier moments for O'Connor

952
00:56:23,880 --> 00:56:26,560
Speaker 4: in that trailer than you get in almost all of

953
00:56:26,640 --> 00:56:30,680
Speaker 4: the Mastermind. But man, did I think this was an

954
00:56:30,719 --> 00:56:34,399
Speaker 4: incredible performance. And I think it's partly incredible because he's

955
00:56:34,400 --> 00:56:36,719
Speaker 4: playing someone who doesn't want a lot of attention, So

956
00:56:36,760 --> 00:56:41,279
Speaker 4: how do you do that and still be able to

957
00:56:41,400 --> 00:56:46,840
Speaker 4: hold the audience in your thrall? And O'Connor pulls this off.

958
00:56:47,000 --> 00:56:50,520
Speaker 4: I mean, he's this guy he's playing is sort of maddening.

959
00:56:50,640 --> 00:56:54,839
Speaker 4: I at least found him maddening because he is, in personality,

960
00:56:54,880 --> 00:56:58,040
Speaker 4: I think, naturally unassertive, especially with his family. That's just

961
00:56:58,080 --> 00:57:02,040
Speaker 4: his nature. But then he's also oh consumed with this

962
00:57:02,120 --> 00:57:05,279
Speaker 4: plan to pull off this robbery, this daytime robbery at

963
00:57:05,280 --> 00:57:09,120
Speaker 4: this museum, so that's where his attention is, and he's

964
00:57:09,280 --> 00:57:12,719
Speaker 4: kind of laying low. Yet I was riveted by the

965
00:57:12,760 --> 00:57:16,480
Speaker 4: way O'Connor gives us this portrait of unraveling self delusion,

966
00:57:16,640 --> 00:57:20,880
Speaker 4: and he's doing it by balancing that outer reticence with

967
00:57:21,240 --> 00:57:24,120
Speaker 4: this inner confidence that this guy has even though he

968
00:57:24,240 --> 00:57:28,640
Speaker 4: probably shouldn't. And then as things go wrong and the

969
00:57:28,680 --> 00:57:32,640
Speaker 4: walls start closing in on him, O'Connor brings these two

970
00:57:32,760 --> 00:57:37,080
Speaker 4: qualities together so that outer reticence and the inner confidence

971
00:57:37,120 --> 00:57:41,680
Speaker 4: start to meet where they're going to like conflict, and

972
00:57:41,960 --> 00:57:45,160
Speaker 4: then we see within him what the result is.

973
00:57:45,760 --> 00:57:47,880
Speaker 2: Just hear me out.

974
00:57:49,400 --> 00:57:51,680
Speaker 4: It's a big life changing opportunity for me.

975
00:57:52,200 --> 00:57:54,840
Speaker 3: But I don't have to run a workspace and purchase tools,

976
00:57:54,840 --> 00:57:55,200
Speaker 3: which I.

977
00:57:55,120 --> 00:57:55,720
Speaker 2: Don't have.

978
00:57:57,320 --> 00:57:58,040
Speaker 4: That sort of thing.

979
00:57:58,600 --> 00:58:01,040
Speaker 3: And this is real, It's real.

980
00:58:04,200 --> 00:58:06,040
Speaker 4: I love this movie. I'm so glad we have this

981
00:58:06,120 --> 00:58:08,760
Speaker 4: on the show because we were both mixed and to

982
00:58:08,840 --> 00:58:12,160
Speaker 4: negative on the other two films, and I think this

983
00:58:12,440 --> 00:58:15,480
Speaker 4: is just fantastic. I'm hoping you feel the same way

984
00:58:15,560 --> 00:58:18,680
Speaker 4: so that we can throw some praise around for this segment.

985
00:58:18,960 --> 00:58:23,160
Speaker 2: Definitely praise and definitely more praise than the previous two

986
00:58:23,200 --> 00:58:26,200
Speaker 2: films that we've talked about. But I feel like this

987
00:58:26,280 --> 00:58:28,520
Speaker 2: is a movie I need to see again before I'm

988
00:58:28,800 --> 00:58:31,760
Speaker 2: ready to put it up in the upper tier of

989
00:58:31,840 --> 00:58:34,920
Speaker 2: Reiker films. And look, I don't think I've been negative

990
00:58:35,040 --> 00:58:38,720
Speaker 2: on a Reiker film, so she's one of those filmmakers

991
00:58:38,720 --> 00:58:43,200
Speaker 2: where that means something to say it belongs in the

992
00:58:43,240 --> 00:58:47,160
Speaker 2: top tier. I really do like O'Connor's performance in this film,

993
00:58:47,400 --> 00:58:54,320
Speaker 2: but also think it's casual, appropriately casual and laconic to

994
00:58:54,400 --> 00:59:00,400
Speaker 2: the point of disinterested, almost it And that's create, as

995
00:59:00,440 --> 00:59:04,720
Speaker 2: I said, because that's how the character is, and he

996
00:59:04,800 --> 00:59:06,800
Speaker 2: almost does I think you were touching on this. He

997
00:59:06,840 --> 00:59:09,720
Speaker 2: almost does want to be by design. He wants to

998
00:59:09,720 --> 00:59:13,520
Speaker 2: be overlooked, he wants to be ignored, but he also,

999
00:59:13,600 --> 00:59:15,400
Speaker 2: of course wants to pull off something.

1000
00:59:15,520 --> 00:59:16,920
Speaker 3: He wants to achieve something.

1001
00:59:16,960 --> 00:59:20,000
Speaker 2: He has a certain ambition, but he needs to he

1002
00:59:20,040 --> 00:59:22,919
Speaker 2: needs to also fly under the radar and not be seen.

1003
00:59:23,040 --> 00:59:27,880
Speaker 2: And that's the interesting tension with that character. But it

1004
00:59:27,960 --> 00:59:33,600
Speaker 2: is also then a very subtle performance. I'm more interested

1005
00:59:33,720 --> 00:59:37,200
Speaker 2: Josh in his character that I am.

1006
00:59:37,760 --> 00:59:38,520
Speaker 3: The performance.

1007
00:59:38,960 --> 00:59:45,760
Speaker 2: For me, this film is a quiet evisceration of entitlement.

1008
00:59:46,120 --> 00:59:50,360
Speaker 2: And I wonder if you see the movie similarly the

1009
00:59:50,400 --> 00:59:52,920
Speaker 2: way I would like to turn it around and frame

1010
00:59:52,960 --> 00:59:56,360
Speaker 2: it to you. And there's a scene in the movie

1011
00:59:56,480 --> 01:00:01,480
Speaker 2: involving the art that I think in caps lates this

1012
01:00:01,560 --> 01:00:06,600
Speaker 2: question as I'm going to pose it to you. I

1013
01:00:06,640 --> 01:00:11,000
Speaker 2: don't think or I can't recall a Reikert movie. Maybe

1014
01:00:11,000 --> 01:00:14,439
Speaker 2: there is one, but I don't recall a reiker movie

1015
01:00:14,440 --> 01:00:19,840
Speaker 2: where I've ever felt as if Reikert, the filmmaker, the writer,

1016
01:00:20,600 --> 01:00:28,760
Speaker 2: director doesn't like, doesn't admire her protagonist. And I wonder

1017
01:00:28,800 --> 01:00:33,880
Speaker 2: how you feel about that question as it applies to JB.

1018
01:00:34,000 --> 01:00:34,360
Speaker 4: Mooney?

1019
01:00:35,320 --> 01:00:38,920
Speaker 2: Do you think that Reikert? And then, of course, as

1020
01:00:38,920 --> 01:00:41,960
Speaker 2: it applies to us, then as a viewer, what do

1021
01:00:42,040 --> 01:00:47,960
Speaker 2: you think about how Reikert feels about Mooney? Does the

1022
01:00:48,000 --> 01:00:54,400
Speaker 2: filmmaker here have any admiration, any morsel of respect or

1023
01:00:54,560 --> 01:00:56,840
Speaker 2: is this a character who might be unique in her

1024
01:00:56,840 --> 01:01:03,120
Speaker 2: filmography where she's used as a vessel to tell a

1025
01:01:03,160 --> 01:01:05,880
Speaker 2: different kind of story and to have us consider a

1026
01:01:05,920 --> 01:01:11,080
Speaker 2: different kind of point she's using as that vessel, a

1027
01:01:11,200 --> 01:01:16,440
Speaker 2: character who has perhaps not a single redeeming quality.

1028
01:01:17,000 --> 01:01:19,400
Speaker 4: Hmm, well, my answer would be I think it's a

1029
01:01:19,440 --> 01:01:22,640
Speaker 4: continuum if you look across her films, and there certainly

1030
01:01:22,960 --> 01:01:29,240
Speaker 4: are there are those lead characters where she is at

1031
01:01:29,240 --> 01:01:32,000
Speaker 4: one with. I think of Michelle Williams and Wendy and Lucy.

1032
01:01:32,560 --> 01:01:35,640
Speaker 4: I think of maybe a couple characters in Certain Women,

1033
01:01:36,880 --> 01:01:39,280
Speaker 4: And this is Michelle Williams. Is gonna meeks cut off?

1034
01:01:39,280 --> 01:01:42,360
Speaker 4: I would say, And now let's look at Michelle Williams

1035
01:01:42,360 --> 01:01:46,280
Speaker 4: and showing up this deeply unlikable artist I think is

1036
01:01:46,880 --> 01:01:49,440
Speaker 4: on the other end of the continuum. I think maybe

1037
01:01:49,480 --> 01:01:54,840
Speaker 4: the Echo Warriors slash Terrorists of Night Moves are on

1038
01:01:54,920 --> 01:01:58,320
Speaker 4: the other end of the continuum where she is conflicted

1039
01:01:58,840 --> 01:02:02,600
Speaker 4: about them, And you're probably right. I would put JB

1040
01:02:03,080 --> 01:02:05,880
Speaker 4: at the far end of that continuum. But there was

1041
01:02:05,920 --> 01:02:08,840
Speaker 4: a very notable touch to me in this movie that

1042
01:02:08,960 --> 01:02:11,000
Speaker 4: even if he is at that far end, I don't

1043
01:02:11,000 --> 01:02:15,680
Speaker 4: think he's entirely meant to be eviscerated or taken down.

1044
01:02:16,280 --> 01:02:19,600
Speaker 4: After he's miraculously successfully pulled off this heist and gotten

1045
01:02:19,640 --> 01:02:23,240
Speaker 4: the paintings into his house, he's home alone. You know,

1046
01:02:23,280 --> 01:02:25,320
Speaker 4: his wife is at work, the kids are at school.

1047
01:02:25,480 --> 01:02:28,880
Speaker 4: He's unpacking them. This is to do with one of

1048
01:02:28,920 --> 01:02:33,280
Speaker 4: these Arthur Dove paintings. He hangs it. Okay, that was

1049
01:02:33,360 --> 01:02:38,240
Speaker 4: my wall above the couch, and right there we've been

1050
01:02:38,240 --> 01:02:41,080
Speaker 4: told he's a former art student, and right there you

1051
01:02:41,200 --> 01:02:45,360
Speaker 4: understand there's something else going on with this guy.

1052
01:02:45,440 --> 01:02:45,840
Speaker 1: Overall.

1053
01:02:45,880 --> 01:02:48,600
Speaker 4: I take your point, but I think it is more nuanced,

1054
01:02:48,680 --> 01:02:50,400
Speaker 4: and I do want to hear more about, which I'm

1055
01:02:50,440 --> 01:02:51,920
Speaker 4: assuming you're going to get to. I want to hear

1056
01:02:51,960 --> 01:02:55,200
Speaker 4: more about this entitlements idea, because I'm guessing it's related

1057
01:02:55,200 --> 01:02:57,360
Speaker 4: to something else I want to touch on.

1058
01:02:57,640 --> 01:03:02,880
Speaker 2: Well first, I'll say on your continuum or this spectrum.

1059
01:03:02,920 --> 01:03:06,880
Speaker 2: I agree that it's on a spectrum. But conflicted is good,

1060
01:03:07,200 --> 01:03:11,400
Speaker 2: conflicted is human. I expect Kelly Riker to write characters

1061
01:03:11,800 --> 01:03:15,600
Speaker 2: who she has conflicted feelings about, who have nuances to

1062
01:03:15,640 --> 01:03:18,440
Speaker 2: them and depth, And yes, of course, if she has

1063
01:03:18,520 --> 01:03:22,800
Speaker 2: characters who are doing or committing acts of eco terrorism,

1064
01:03:23,320 --> 01:03:27,960
Speaker 2: she probably personally may have conflicted feelings about that, right,

1065
01:03:28,120 --> 01:03:30,560
Speaker 2: and she may feel a certain way about some of

1066
01:03:30,760 --> 01:03:37,480
Speaker 2: Michelle Williams. Her character's abrasiveness in showing up that she

1067
01:03:37,600 --> 01:03:43,880
Speaker 2: may feel is completely absurd and she would never in

1068
01:03:43,920 --> 01:03:47,040
Speaker 2: her own life treat someone that way. Or maybe I

1069
01:03:47,080 --> 01:03:49,240
Speaker 2: don't know. I've interviewed her three times, but I would

1070
01:03:49,280 --> 01:03:53,200
Speaker 2: never speculate about who she is Apart from that. Maybe

1071
01:03:53,200 --> 01:03:55,840
Speaker 2: that's exactly how Kelly Reiker is as an artist, and

1072
01:03:55,880 --> 01:03:59,240
Speaker 2: she sees herself one to one in that character, and

1073
01:03:59,280 --> 01:04:02,760
Speaker 2: that's why she wrote that character, right, And so there

1074
01:04:02,840 --> 01:04:07,320
Speaker 2: could be a lot of layers to that, which is

1075
01:04:07,320 --> 01:04:11,280
Speaker 2: why I find this character so fascinating though, because I

1076
01:04:11,360 --> 01:04:17,320
Speaker 2: can't find in him much conflict that brings that brings

1077
01:04:17,360 --> 01:04:20,600
Speaker 2: about any case for him being good. He's not evil,

1078
01:04:20,760 --> 01:04:23,520
Speaker 2: He's certainly not evil. And yes, of course I think

1079
01:04:23,520 --> 01:04:26,600
Speaker 2: he has basic human decency when it comes to taking

1080
01:04:26,640 --> 01:04:30,040
Speaker 2: care of his kids and having feelings for his wife.

1081
01:04:30,080 --> 01:04:33,439
Speaker 2: But that's a relatively low bar. And that scene you mentioned,

1082
01:04:33,520 --> 01:04:36,840
Speaker 2: Josh is the scene I was alluding to earlier. That

1083
01:04:36,960 --> 01:04:39,840
Speaker 2: is at the crux of it. For me, It's the

1084
01:04:39,880 --> 01:04:43,440
Speaker 2: one that I've been wrestling with because depending on how

1085
01:04:43,480 --> 01:04:47,160
Speaker 2: you interpret it, it determines how you view his character

1086
01:04:47,400 --> 01:04:49,600
Speaker 2: and maybe how you answer this question. And you gave

1087
01:04:49,640 --> 01:04:52,120
Speaker 2: me your reading, and you gave me your answer, and

1088
01:04:52,320 --> 01:04:56,760
Speaker 2: I have decided I see it differently. It's that scene

1089
01:04:56,800 --> 01:05:01,320
Speaker 2: where as you said, he is he stolen the art.

1090
01:05:01,640 --> 01:05:04,960
Speaker 2: He has it in his house, everybody leaves, he gets

1091
01:05:05,000 --> 01:05:08,640
Speaker 2: it out, he is looking at it in the room.

1092
01:05:08,680 --> 01:05:10,960
Speaker 2: He's sort of just getting it out, letting it breathe

1093
01:05:11,080 --> 01:05:13,320
Speaker 2: if you will. And then what does he do. He

1094
01:05:13,320 --> 01:05:15,320
Speaker 2: gets it out and he puts it on his wall.

1095
01:05:15,600 --> 01:05:17,960
Speaker 2: He frames it on his wall and he looks at it,

1096
01:05:18,200 --> 01:05:21,240
Speaker 2: and in that moment you could read it. And I

1097
01:05:21,320 --> 01:05:25,880
Speaker 2: certainly considered this like he is that art student, that

1098
01:05:25,960 --> 01:05:29,440
Speaker 2: former art student. He's an appreciator of art, he's someone

1099
01:05:29,480 --> 01:05:33,040
Speaker 2: who you may believe is going to the museum every day,

1100
01:05:33,200 --> 01:05:37,360
Speaker 2: not just because he's casing the joint, but because he

1101
01:05:37,440 --> 01:05:40,480
Speaker 2: deeply appreciates the art. And here he just wants to

1102
01:05:40,560 --> 01:05:44,400
Speaker 2: feel what it's like to take it off that wall

1103
01:05:44,440 --> 01:05:46,080
Speaker 2: and to be able to see it in his own

1104
01:05:46,200 --> 01:05:49,160
Speaker 2: living room, to see what that painting looks like on

1105
01:05:49,240 --> 01:05:52,600
Speaker 2: his wall, to feel that and in some way that's

1106
01:05:53,840 --> 01:05:56,920
Speaker 2: noble might be too strong of a word, but something

1107
01:05:56,960 --> 01:06:01,480
Speaker 2: close to noble. There's the other side that, though, which

1108
01:06:01,520 --> 01:06:07,600
Speaker 2: is the entitlement side, the notion that he feels as

1109
01:06:07,600 --> 01:06:11,400
Speaker 2: if he's entitled to take. Obviously, he feels like he's

1110
01:06:11,520 --> 01:06:14,160
Speaker 2: entitled to take it, but lots of people steal things

1111
01:06:14,560 --> 01:06:18,160
Speaker 2: and have a reason to steal things. He feels as

1112
01:06:18,200 --> 01:06:21,080
Speaker 2: if he can take that painting. And it's not just

1113
01:06:21,120 --> 01:06:26,600
Speaker 2: because he came up with this this whole heist concept

1114
01:06:26,840 --> 01:06:28,560
Speaker 2: and he's gonna fend he's going to move it through

1115
01:06:28,560 --> 01:06:31,560
Speaker 2: his fence and he's going to collect money for it. No,

1116
01:06:32,160 --> 01:06:36,000
Speaker 2: he also believes that he should be able to put

1117
01:06:36,000 --> 01:06:40,960
Speaker 2: that on his wall, that that his house, his his

1118
01:06:41,000 --> 01:06:44,200
Speaker 2: little museum. He should get to feel what that's like

1119
01:06:44,760 --> 01:06:47,959
Speaker 2: to see it on his wall and deprive everyone else

1120
01:06:48,320 --> 01:06:54,040
Speaker 2: of that experience. His experience is more important and should

1121
01:06:54,040 --> 01:06:57,480
Speaker 2: be primary over anyone else's experience. And the thing is

1122
01:06:57,560 --> 01:07:02,080
Speaker 2: that's consistent with his character throughout the movie. He obviously

1123
01:07:02,120 --> 01:07:07,400
Speaker 2: puts his feelings and his desires ahead of his children,

1124
01:07:07,880 --> 01:07:12,080
Speaker 2: ahead of his wife, ahead of his mother and father.

1125
01:07:12,480 --> 01:07:17,280
Speaker 2: The entire film, he uses those around him when it

1126
01:07:17,320 --> 01:07:20,120
Speaker 2: comes to getting what he needs for that heist to

1127
01:07:20,160 --> 01:07:24,040
Speaker 2: be pulled off. He certainly depends on other people later.

1128
01:07:24,240 --> 01:07:28,200
Speaker 2: Depends is not the right word. He exploits or uses

1129
01:07:28,680 --> 01:07:32,040
Speaker 2: other people later just so he can survive. He accepts

1130
01:07:32,080 --> 01:07:37,200
Speaker 2: no responsibility or accountability at any point in the movie.

1131
01:07:38,040 --> 01:07:42,440
Speaker 2: And moreover, Josh, what cued me into this is Reikert

1132
01:07:42,480 --> 01:07:46,600
Speaker 2: throughout the film is constantly showing us the setting really

1133
01:07:46,640 --> 01:07:49,680
Speaker 2: is what matters. She shows us and make sure we

1134
01:07:49,800 --> 01:07:55,400
Speaker 2: hear that all around him on the TV, in the bars,

1135
01:07:56,360 --> 01:08:00,640
Speaker 2: in the newspapers, on the radio, the entire world is

1136
01:08:00,640 --> 01:08:06,400
Speaker 2: happening around him. Real people are having real problems, real

1137
01:08:06,560 --> 01:08:10,040
Speaker 2: wars are happening. All the people who are not as

1138
01:08:10,120 --> 01:08:15,320
Speaker 2: privileged as him are really struggling. And because of his

1139
01:08:16,400 --> 01:08:21,040
Speaker 2: position in life, because of the certain privileges that he

1140
01:08:21,080 --> 01:08:24,360
Speaker 2: has been born with. He gets to continue on with

1141
01:08:24,400 --> 01:08:27,760
Speaker 2: his selveistic existence. And I think that feels to me

1142
01:08:27,920 --> 01:08:29,120
Speaker 2: like what this movie's about.

1143
01:08:29,479 --> 01:08:32,639
Speaker 4: Ultimately, I do want to get back to the Vietnam

1144
01:08:32,680 --> 01:08:35,559
Speaker 4: War background, the protests about it. I think that's key

1145
01:08:35,600 --> 01:08:38,720
Speaker 4: to the movie. And you're right, they're continual throughout on

1146
01:08:38,760 --> 01:08:41,639
Speaker 4: the radio, on television. He runs into an actual protest

1147
01:08:41,640 --> 01:08:44,639
Speaker 4: on the streets right at one point. I don't share

1148
01:08:44,680 --> 01:08:48,040
Speaker 4: the same reading of him. I can understand it. I

1149
01:08:48,240 --> 01:08:51,640
Speaker 4: do think we are given other details about him. However,

1150
01:08:52,160 --> 01:08:54,519
Speaker 4: there's a conversation early on where they're having dinner with

1151
01:08:54,560 --> 01:08:57,759
Speaker 4: his parents and the whole families together with his parents,

1152
01:08:57,760 --> 01:09:00,559
Speaker 4: and his dad is asking him basically, we learned his

1153
01:09:00,600 --> 01:09:03,519
Speaker 4: dad as a judge, like business questions, basically like get

1154
01:09:03,560 --> 01:09:06,880
Speaker 4: your act together, somebody else your age is, you know,

1155
01:09:06,920 --> 01:09:07,639
Speaker 4: making money?

1156
01:09:07,960 --> 01:09:11,240
Speaker 1: So Kip's father today, he said, Kip has projects all

1157
01:09:11,240 --> 01:09:11,880
Speaker 1: over time.

1158
01:09:12,160 --> 01:09:15,679
Speaker 5: He spends all his time balancing books, scheduling on the phone.

1159
01:09:16,040 --> 01:09:17,840
Speaker 3: It's an idiotic way to spend your time.

1160
01:09:18,160 --> 01:09:20,720
Speaker 5: Well, you seem to have a good amount of time

1161
01:09:20,720 --> 01:09:21,360
Speaker 5: on your hands.

1162
01:09:21,600 --> 01:09:23,680
Speaker 4: And we've learned that JB, as far as we can tell,

1163
01:09:23,880 --> 01:09:26,800
Speaker 4: just sits around all day, his wife goes to work,

1164
01:09:26,880 --> 01:09:29,600
Speaker 4: kids go to school, and I think that's related to

1165
01:09:30,479 --> 01:09:34,639
Speaker 4: He's entitlement is part of this absolutely, but he's also

1166
01:09:35,960 --> 01:09:39,200
Speaker 4: you know, he has an artistic spirit and he can't

1167
01:09:39,280 --> 01:09:45,519
Speaker 4: quite bring himself to be a part of the money

1168
01:09:45,840 --> 01:09:48,960
Speaker 4: machinery right now. He doesn't have to. He's privileged in

1169
01:09:49,000 --> 01:09:50,800
Speaker 4: a way, and that connects to your entitlement, but it

1170
01:09:50,800 --> 01:09:55,080
Speaker 4: also speaks to he's maybe not in his mind made

1171
01:09:55,160 --> 01:09:57,080
Speaker 4: for that, and maybe he should be. It's time to

1172
01:09:57,080 --> 01:09:59,920
Speaker 4: support his family. But I think it speaks to something

1173
01:10:00,080 --> 01:10:03,840
Speaker 4: other than solipsism, is that there was a kernel of

1174
01:10:03,880 --> 01:10:06,760
Speaker 4: appreciation for art, which I think is that's why I

1175
01:10:06,800 --> 01:10:09,880
Speaker 4: read the scene differently with the painting over the couch.

1176
01:10:10,000 --> 01:10:13,200
Speaker 4: But I do think the entitlement thing is related to

1177
01:10:14,120 --> 01:10:19,840
Speaker 4: Reikert's filmography in general and what I thought she might

1178
01:10:19,880 --> 01:10:23,760
Speaker 4: be doing with JB Here as a character. And I

1179
01:10:23,800 --> 01:10:26,120
Speaker 4: just want to reiterate, I think you were so fascinated

1180
01:10:26,120 --> 01:10:28,439
Speaker 4: by this character because of the performance. I think if

1181
01:10:28,479 --> 01:10:31,840
Speaker 4: you put a lot of other people in this performance,

1182
01:10:31,960 --> 01:10:34,559
Speaker 4: none of these ideas were debating would have sparked quite

1183
01:10:34,560 --> 01:10:36,479
Speaker 4: as much. So I think it's I think he's well

1184
01:10:36,520 --> 01:10:40,720
Speaker 4: written and just beautifully performed. But if you look at

1185
01:10:40,840 --> 01:10:44,960
Speaker 4: Kelly Reikert's films, her movies poke at the American project.

1186
01:10:45,200 --> 01:10:48,720
Speaker 4: Almost all of her movies poke at the American project.

1187
01:10:48,800 --> 01:10:53,280
Speaker 4: Now you can say she's poking at manifest destiny in

1188
01:10:53,600 --> 01:10:57,800
Speaker 4: Meek's cutoff in First Cow, notably the period pieces, the

1189
01:10:57,840 --> 01:11:01,600
Speaker 4: distinct period pieces further back, she's poking at capitalism and

1190
01:11:01,680 --> 01:11:05,880
Speaker 4: something like Wendy and Lucy and Night moves right and

1191
01:11:06,000 --> 01:11:10,360
Speaker 4: JB to me, entitlements a part of this. So we're

1192
01:11:10,360 --> 01:11:15,040
Speaker 4: circling the same ideas here. He is a particularly American fraud.

1193
01:11:15,560 --> 01:11:18,000
Speaker 4: And here is where the Vietnam War protests in the

1194
01:11:18,040 --> 01:11:23,559
Speaker 4: background are so crucial. Just like that debacle, which was

1195
01:11:23,560 --> 01:11:27,880
Speaker 4: a projection of American dominance that utterly failed. It failed

1196
01:11:27,880 --> 01:11:30,840
Speaker 4: the Vietnamese, it failed the American soldiers who were sent

1197
01:11:30,920 --> 01:11:36,640
Speaker 4: to fight there. JB is oblivious to his own failings

1198
01:11:37,000 --> 01:11:41,040
Speaker 4: and missteps. As you said, he never takes responsibility, even

1199
01:11:41,080 --> 01:11:43,880
Speaker 4: when he has to go on the run. It's almost

1200
01:11:43,880 --> 01:11:46,680
Speaker 4: he carries himself like why is this happening to me?

1201
01:11:47,080 --> 01:11:50,680
Speaker 4: Like what's going on here? It's like there's like some

1202
01:11:50,720 --> 01:11:53,840
Speaker 4: sort of injustice is too strong of a word, but annoyance.

1203
01:11:54,880 --> 01:12:00,240
Speaker 4: It's because JB is this, this characterization, this person that

1204
01:12:00,479 --> 01:12:05,160
Speaker 4: is holding up as Reiker's films, I would argue, tend

1205
01:12:05,240 --> 01:12:09,960
Speaker 4: to see the American project as inherently a fraud in

1206
01:12:10,000 --> 01:12:13,559
Speaker 4: so many ways. And in this character, in this story,

1207
01:12:13,600 --> 01:12:16,479
Speaker 4: which is loosely based on an actual theft in this

1208
01:12:16,640 --> 01:12:21,840
Speaker 4: time period, she's found a compelling way to move that

1209
01:12:21,920 --> 01:12:23,599
Speaker 4: project forward a little bit more.

1210
01:12:23,920 --> 01:12:29,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think he can expose and he does American exceptionalism,

1211
01:12:29,320 --> 01:12:31,880
Speaker 2: expose it for the myth, the fraud that it is

1212
01:12:32,720 --> 01:12:38,040
Speaker 2: by not being an admirable anti hero, but by embodying

1213
01:12:38,320 --> 01:12:42,320
Speaker 2: an exceptionalism, which is what his character does in this movie.

1214
01:12:42,360 --> 01:12:45,840
Speaker 2: And I know the moment you're referring to earlier, Josh,

1215
01:12:46,000 --> 01:12:48,679
Speaker 2: and I read that scene initially the same way. That's

1216
01:12:48,800 --> 01:12:51,479
Speaker 2: very early in the film. That's the moment when we

1217
01:12:51,520 --> 01:12:56,040
Speaker 2: meet his parents and you feel like, oh, that's the dad,

1218
01:12:56,280 --> 01:13:00,320
Speaker 2: that's the krusty dad who's comparing his artistically minded son

1219
01:13:00,640 --> 01:13:05,639
Speaker 2: to the guy who's more commerce oriented and the son

1220
01:13:05,720 --> 01:13:08,959
Speaker 2: is more artistically inclined and that's not really fair. And

1221
01:13:08,960 --> 01:13:11,720
Speaker 2: and we're gonna we're gonna see that this guy is

1222
01:13:11,800 --> 01:13:15,719
Speaker 2: actually is better than his dad. Is giving him credit

1223
01:13:15,760 --> 01:13:18,960
Speaker 2: for the problem is that that's not what the movie

1224
01:13:19,000 --> 01:13:22,559
Speaker 2: bears out. The movie bears out that he is the

1225
01:13:22,600 --> 01:13:26,759
Speaker 2: fraud that you called him, and that that is the con.

1226
01:13:27,600 --> 01:13:29,160
Speaker 3: That is exactly what JB.

1227
01:13:29,320 --> 01:13:32,120
Speaker 2: Mooney, what he says to his dad is exactly what

1228
01:13:32,200 --> 01:13:36,439
Speaker 2: he wants his dad to believe, exactly the line of

1229
01:13:36,520 --> 01:13:40,040
Speaker 2: bs that he sells everybody. It's that, well, that's that's

1230
01:13:40,040 --> 01:13:43,400
Speaker 2: not the work that I do. My work's more meaningful. No,

1231
01:13:43,840 --> 01:13:46,760
Speaker 2: you don't do work. He doesn't do any work. It's

1232
01:13:46,760 --> 01:13:50,360
Speaker 2: an excuse to not do any work at all. That's

1233
01:13:50,400 --> 01:13:52,559
Speaker 2: the problem with this guy. There's I don't think there's

1234
01:13:52,640 --> 01:13:55,639
Speaker 2: anything redeeming about him at all, and that's what makes

1235
01:13:55,640 --> 01:13:56,320
Speaker 2: me fascinating.

1236
01:13:56,400 --> 01:13:58,800
Speaker 4: I think it can be both. I mean I think

1237
01:13:58,960 --> 01:14:01,040
Speaker 4: like Reiker would only be interested in a character who

1238
01:14:01,120 --> 01:14:03,680
Speaker 4: is both. So there's a kernel of that. So for me,

1239
01:14:03,800 --> 01:14:06,720
Speaker 4: con is going a little too a little too far.

1240
01:14:06,920 --> 01:14:09,280
Speaker 4: I mean, yes, he has to be involved in a

1241
01:14:09,280 --> 01:14:11,479
Speaker 4: con to pull off a heist to a degree, but

1242
01:14:12,160 --> 01:14:14,800
Speaker 4: if anyone, he's just conning himself more than anything else.

1243
01:14:14,840 --> 01:14:19,280
Speaker 4: I do think there's a kernel of artistic interest and expression.

1244
01:14:19,320 --> 01:14:21,599
Speaker 4: He's just never been able to follow through on that,

1245
01:14:22,120 --> 01:14:24,280
Speaker 4: so I think he's being genuine to a degree when

1246
01:14:24,280 --> 01:14:26,800
Speaker 4: he's having that conversation. We should say the dad because

1247
01:14:26,800 --> 01:14:29,360
Speaker 4: he's very good and does have a few crucial scenes

1248
01:14:29,360 --> 01:14:32,400
Speaker 4: played by Bill camp here. I do want to call

1249
01:14:32,439 --> 01:14:35,720
Speaker 4: out one other thing, which is, maybe for all the

1250
01:14:35,760 --> 01:14:38,920
Speaker 4: praise I've given O'Connor, my favorite thing about The Mastermind,

1251
01:14:39,080 --> 01:14:44,679
Speaker 4: and that is Rob Masurich's audacious score. And at first

1252
01:14:44,680 --> 01:14:46,519
Speaker 4: I thought it was just going to add something fine

1253
01:14:46,680 --> 01:14:49,519
Speaker 4: with you there, because when we first hear it, the

1254
01:14:49,600 --> 01:14:51,960
Speaker 4: opening scene is JB and his family that are at

1255
01:14:52,000 --> 01:14:54,759
Speaker 4: this museum and he's doing a practice, not even a heist,

1256
01:14:54,800 --> 01:14:57,240
Speaker 4: but he's going to steal a little figuring and there's

1257
01:14:57,280 --> 01:15:01,120
Speaker 4: an insert shot of his finger lifting the last of

1258
01:15:01,280 --> 01:15:03,400
Speaker 4: the case that this figuring is in. And if I'm

1259
01:15:03,439 --> 01:15:06,639
Speaker 4: remembering correctly, the instant we see his finger is when

1260
01:15:06,800 --> 01:15:08,880
Speaker 4: is the first time we hear this score, And it's

1261
01:15:09,280 --> 01:15:21,240
Speaker 4: this jazzy riff that reminds you of Ocean's eleven. Right. Fun. Great,

1262
01:15:22,120 --> 01:15:27,400
Speaker 4: that's you know, enjoying that, But that fizziness quickly fades

1263
01:15:27,560 --> 01:15:30,200
Speaker 4: in the movie, and that's when this score becomes brilliant

1264
01:15:30,240 --> 01:15:33,400
Speaker 4: because the sequence that JB. Is driving to the museum

1265
01:15:33,400 --> 01:15:35,920
Speaker 4: on the day of the heist, and then all during

1266
01:15:35,960 --> 01:15:40,519
Speaker 4: this extended theft sequence, the score strips down to be

1267
01:15:40,840 --> 01:15:46,320
Speaker 4: only percussion, so we get these antsy poking like snaps

1268
01:15:46,360 --> 01:15:50,000
Speaker 4: and snares, and then it reappears later in certain moments

1269
01:15:50,000 --> 01:15:54,439
Speaker 4: of the film, brilliantly used by Riker, brilliantly composed, just

1270
01:15:54,680 --> 01:15:59,280
Speaker 4: bringing about this anxiousness and despair. And I'm sure there

1271
01:15:59,320 --> 01:16:02,080
Speaker 4: have been other instan stances of you know, percussion only

1272
01:16:02,200 --> 01:16:05,400
Speaker 4: jazz scores here and there that I'm not thinking of,

1273
01:16:05,479 --> 01:16:08,280
Speaker 4: But man, did this feel fresh and just so fitting

1274
01:16:08,360 --> 01:16:09,840
Speaker 4: for what this movie was trying to do.

1275
01:16:10,360 --> 01:16:12,760
Speaker 2: I'm so glad you called it out for me. One

1276
01:16:12,800 --> 01:16:15,519
Speaker 2: of the highlights of the year, and certainly one of

1277
01:16:15,520 --> 01:16:17,720
Speaker 2: the highlights of the year when it comes to the

1278
01:16:17,840 --> 01:16:20,160
Speaker 2: use of music in a film. Not one of my

1279
01:16:20,240 --> 01:16:24,960
Speaker 2: highlights of the year. The Alenaheim character, the wife in

1280
01:16:25,000 --> 01:16:27,240
Speaker 2: this film. You want to talk about a character who

1281
01:16:27,280 --> 01:16:31,320
Speaker 2: feels completely on the fringes and has absolutely no role

1282
01:16:31,560 --> 01:16:36,719
Speaker 2: in this movie. I didn't really understand how that character

1283
01:16:36,920 --> 01:16:40,200
Speaker 2: was portrayed or depicted because I didn't feel like there

1284
01:16:40,240 --> 01:16:41,360
Speaker 2: was anything to portray.

1285
01:16:41,479 --> 01:16:43,480
Speaker 3: I don't know how you felt, Josh.

1286
01:16:43,800 --> 01:16:45,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, I was trying to figure out if that was

1287
01:16:45,800 --> 01:16:50,599
Speaker 4: a matter of performance or being underwritten. Of course, we

1288
01:16:50,680 --> 01:16:54,360
Speaker 4: know from Licorice Pizza Alanaheim is very capable of being

1289
01:16:54,360 --> 01:16:58,360
Speaker 4: a captivating screen presence, probably just a scene or two

1290
01:16:58,560 --> 01:17:01,479
Speaker 4: more between the two two of them, or even perhaps

1291
01:17:01,560 --> 01:17:05,520
Speaker 4: her alone with the kids. The two kids are incredible

1292
01:17:05,560 --> 01:17:09,360
Speaker 4: by the way, brothers Jasper Thompson and Sterling Thompson. But yeah,

1293
01:17:09,400 --> 01:17:14,120
Speaker 4: I'd agree probably that alnaheim character not a strength of

1294
01:17:14,160 --> 01:17:14,599
Speaker 4: the film.

1295
01:17:14,680 --> 01:17:19,480
Speaker 2: The Mastermind out in limited release. We have a Mastermind

1296
01:17:19,640 --> 01:17:23,800
Speaker 2: prize to give away. A prize pack courtesy of our

1297
01:17:23,920 --> 01:17:28,760
Speaker 2: partner movie. It features items from the film's fictional Framingham

1298
01:17:28,840 --> 01:17:31,680
Speaker 2: Museum of Art. So you can take the art and

1299
01:17:32,040 --> 01:17:35,519
Speaker 2: just like JB. Mooney, you can frame it at your

1300
01:17:35,600 --> 01:17:38,400
Speaker 2: house or apartment and I won't judge you for it.

1301
01:17:38,640 --> 01:17:39,320
Speaker 3: How about that.

1302
01:17:39,840 --> 01:17:42,400
Speaker 2: For a chance to win, all listeners had to do

1303
01:17:43,000 --> 01:17:47,160
Speaker 2: was send in an email with their favorite Kelly Reiker character.

1304
01:17:47,439 --> 01:17:50,200
Speaker 2: We're going to feature some of the responses here, Josh,

1305
01:17:50,200 --> 01:17:53,800
Speaker 2: and then we will announce the randomly chosen winner. Why

1306
01:17:53,800 --> 01:17:54,760
Speaker 2: don't you start us off?

1307
01:17:54,880 --> 01:17:59,519
Speaker 4: Michael Powell was brief King Lou choosing character from First

1308
01:17:59,600 --> 01:18:03,280
Speaker 4: Kyle of Good Choice. Here's Matt b and Durham, North Carolina.

1309
01:18:03,360 --> 01:18:04,880
Speaker 4: I'm going to maybe go a little bit off the

1310
01:18:04,880 --> 01:18:07,160
Speaker 4: beaten path with my pick, but my favorite Kelly Reker

1311
01:18:07,320 --> 01:18:10,080
Speaker 4: character is the one played by Lily Gladstone and Certain Women,

1312
01:18:10,479 --> 01:18:13,640
Speaker 4: just credited as the Rancher. I find her absolutely fascinating,

1313
01:18:13,800 --> 01:18:16,920
Speaker 4: and that's probably mostly due to Gladstone's performance. We don't

1314
01:18:16,920 --> 01:18:19,080
Speaker 4: really know much about her character other than that she

1315
01:18:19,200 --> 01:18:22,560
Speaker 4: lives this solitary, repetitive life and then suddenly finds a

1316
01:18:22,640 --> 01:18:25,320
Speaker 4: human connection with the character of the lawyer played by

1317
01:18:25,400 --> 01:18:28,040
Speaker 4: Kristen Stewart. Certain Women is probably pretty low in my

1318
01:18:28,080 --> 01:18:31,599
Speaker 4: record film rankings, but Gladstone's character is probably the one

1319
01:18:31,640 --> 01:18:34,639
Speaker 4: I think about most often. Well said, yeah, I mean

1320
01:18:34,640 --> 01:18:37,559
Speaker 4: talk about building a full life out of only a

1321
01:18:37,560 --> 01:18:41,919
Speaker 4: couple of scenes and few words. Man, Gladstone is incredible.

1322
01:18:41,960 --> 01:18:45,800
Speaker 4: There Here is Jeremy Kinney from Lansing, Michigan. I was

1323
01:18:45,840 --> 01:18:49,719
Speaker 4: shocked Adam wouldn't suggest it, so I will Lucy such

1324
01:18:49,720 --> 01:18:51,360
Speaker 4: a good dog, you know.

1325
01:18:51,520 --> 01:18:55,800
Speaker 2: Jeremy may have me pegged here incorrectly. There are two

1326
01:18:55,880 --> 01:18:58,519
Speaker 2: people associated with the show who are dog guys, and

1327
01:18:58,640 --> 01:19:01,920
Speaker 2: I'm not one. Of those two, I don't own a dog,

1328
01:19:02,160 --> 01:19:05,240
Speaker 2: so if anybody would be Josh, who would go Lucy?

1329
01:19:05,640 --> 01:19:08,559
Speaker 4: I was gonna say, have you come around and gotten

1330
01:19:08,600 --> 01:19:11,040
Speaker 4: a dog and haven't told Sam or me?

1331
01:19:11,160 --> 01:19:14,120
Speaker 3: But you told Jeremy no, though that is a bit

1332
01:19:14,200 --> 01:19:14,840
Speaker 3: unfair to me.

1333
01:19:15,000 --> 01:19:18,240
Speaker 2: I did have my dog Ellie for sixteen years, but

1334
01:19:18,760 --> 01:19:20,960
Speaker 2: she passed. She passed in twenty twenty one, and we

1335
01:19:21,000 --> 01:19:22,920
Speaker 2: have not replaced Ellie.

1336
01:19:23,360 --> 01:19:24,200
Speaker 3: Tom.

1337
01:19:24,360 --> 01:19:27,240
Speaker 2: Sticking with that theme, my favorite Kelly Reker character is

1338
01:19:27,360 --> 01:19:31,160
Speaker 2: Cookie from First Cow. Since choosing the cow would probably

1339
01:19:31,200 --> 01:19:33,480
Speaker 2: be cheating, well.

1340
01:19:33,320 --> 01:19:35,360
Speaker 4: Here we go from Damien, I'm going to go with

1341
01:19:35,400 --> 01:19:38,800
Speaker 4: Cookie from First Cow. So some agreement there.

1342
01:19:38,800 --> 01:19:42,920
Speaker 2: Another one, Anthony says Will Oldham's Kurt from Old Joyce

1343
01:19:42,960 --> 01:19:46,400
Speaker 2: such a pinpoint performance of a faded man. I love this.

1344
01:19:46,720 --> 01:19:49,639
Speaker 2: Anthony says, I care about him deeply. We should all

1345
01:19:49,720 --> 01:19:52,519
Speaker 2: care about our favorite film characters deeply.

1346
01:19:52,840 --> 01:19:56,880
Speaker 4: Josh, very very sweet. Let's close it out with Michael Shaw.

1347
01:19:57,240 --> 01:20:00,559
Speaker 4: So glad that you're such fans officionados of Kelly ry work.

1348
01:20:00,600 --> 01:20:04,679
Speaker 4: One of my favorite filmmakers, without question. Very tough question,

1349
01:20:04,800 --> 01:20:07,639
Speaker 4: but here it goes. Number one Kurt played by Will

1350
01:20:07,640 --> 01:20:10,479
Speaker 4: Oldham and Old joy Number two, Wendy Michelle Williams and

1351
01:20:10,479 --> 01:20:13,480
Speaker 4: Wendy and Lucia. Number three Josh played by Jesse Eisenberg

1352
01:20:13,560 --> 01:20:16,519
Speaker 4: in Night Moves. I will second guess the hell out

1353
01:20:16,520 --> 01:20:18,880
Speaker 4: of these choices, but that's where they're landing right at

1354
01:20:18,880 --> 01:20:21,360
Speaker 4: this moment. Thank you, thank you, thank you for film

1355
01:20:21,400 --> 01:20:22,400
Speaker 4: spotting and all the best.

1356
01:20:22,720 --> 01:20:23,120
Speaker 3: Thank you.

1357
01:20:23,560 --> 01:20:28,799
Speaker 2: Finally, we do have our winner, Adam Graff, Portland, Maine,

1358
01:20:29,080 --> 01:20:33,639
Speaker 2: who says, my favorite character is Jamie in Certain Women. Well,

1359
01:20:33,720 --> 01:20:37,080
Speaker 2: I guess the rancher has a name, because Adam's calling

1360
01:20:37,120 --> 01:20:40,400
Speaker 2: her Jamie. That's the character played by Lily Gladstone. Because

1361
01:20:40,400 --> 01:20:43,560
Speaker 2: that was my first introduction to Gladstone, and she portrayed

1362
01:20:43,760 --> 01:20:47,040
Speaker 2: that deep feminine strength and complex interiority that she has

1363
01:20:47,200 --> 01:20:53,840
Speaker 2: perfected in many roles. Congratulations, Adam. We think everyone who entered.

1364
01:20:54,160 --> 01:20:56,920
Speaker 2: We will contact movie and we will get that prize

1365
01:20:56,920 --> 01:20:58,280
Speaker 2: pack off to you soon.

1366
01:21:04,520 --> 01:21:10,360
Speaker 3: It's the other Mura, No, I'm Not Quandred.

1367
01:21:12,520 --> 01:21:15,960
Speaker 4: Iranian director Jafar Panahi has spent most of the last

1368
01:21:16,000 --> 01:21:19,559
Speaker 4: decade and a half making non films like No Bears,

1369
01:21:19,880 --> 01:21:23,040
Speaker 4: Taxi and This Is Not a Film as a condition

1370
01:21:23,200 --> 01:21:26,720
Speaker 4: of his status as a political prisoner. His latest it

1371
01:21:26,840 --> 01:21:29,880
Speaker 4: was just an accident was made without getting permission from

1372
01:21:29,920 --> 01:21:33,240
Speaker 4: the Iranian government. The French co production premiered at this

1373
01:21:33,320 --> 01:21:37,160
Speaker 4: year's can Film Festival, where it won the Palondor. It's

1374
01:21:37,200 --> 01:21:41,160
Speaker 4: the story of an Azerbaijani auto mechanic, once imprisoned by

1375
01:21:41,240 --> 01:21:46,679
Speaker 4: Iranian authorities, who thinks he recognizes one of his former torturers, Adam.

1376
01:21:46,720 --> 01:21:49,920
Speaker 4: These non films of Panahi's that I mentioned, they were

1377
01:21:50,040 --> 01:21:53,799
Speaker 4: acts of protest, but they are also very much films

1378
01:21:53,840 --> 01:21:55,840
Speaker 4: and often very good. I think at least one of

1379
01:21:55,880 --> 01:21:58,679
Speaker 4: them made a Top ten of the year list for you.

1380
01:21:59,520 --> 01:22:04,519
Speaker 4: This is Panahi making a quote unquote real movie. Again.

1381
01:22:05,040 --> 01:22:07,880
Speaker 4: What did you think of him back in this form?

1382
01:22:08,320 --> 01:22:12,879
Speaker 2: Give me Panahi real films, Give me Panahi fake films.

1383
01:22:13,080 --> 01:22:16,599
Speaker 2: Give me Panahi real films with fake films inside them,

1384
01:22:17,040 --> 01:22:19,800
Speaker 2: like The Mirror, which was my favorite film from our

1385
01:22:20,439 --> 01:22:23,720
Speaker 2: Iranian cinema. Marathon? Was that a marathon? I think just

1386
01:22:23,840 --> 01:22:25,440
Speaker 2: before you joined the show.

1387
01:22:26,320 --> 01:22:29,000
Speaker 4: No, why did you do that one with me introduction

1388
01:22:29,160 --> 01:22:31,040
Speaker 4: to marathon?

1389
01:22:31,120 --> 01:22:36,000
Speaker 2: I couldn't remember. Wonderful marathon and one that was so

1390
01:22:36,200 --> 01:22:40,280
Speaker 2: influential for me because I don't think I was gonna

1391
01:22:40,280 --> 01:22:42,960
Speaker 2: say I don't think I had seen any of those films,

1392
01:22:42,960 --> 01:22:46,000
Speaker 2: any of those filmmakers. But there was a marathon that

1393
01:22:46,080 --> 01:22:49,040
Speaker 2: preceded that one where I saw Taste of Cherry and

1394
01:22:50,120 --> 01:22:53,599
Speaker 2: Maybe Maybe Someone Like You, which was a Kistami film,

1395
01:22:53,600 --> 01:22:56,160
Speaker 2: but also that may have come out later. Nevertheless, the

1396
01:22:56,160 --> 01:22:58,599
Speaker 2: point is I had seen at least one Kiristami film,

1397
01:22:59,680 --> 01:23:04,120
Speaker 2: but that marathon introduced me to close Up and Mack

1398
01:23:04,200 --> 01:23:08,719
Speaker 2: Malboff and Panahi and Farhadi, and that was a huge

1399
01:23:08,720 --> 01:23:11,200
Speaker 2: one that for me is one of those top five

1400
01:23:11,320 --> 01:23:16,200
Speaker 2: or certainly top ten discoveries when it comes to this

1401
01:23:16,320 --> 01:23:21,360
Speaker 2: show in the legacy of this show, for me, all

1402
01:23:21,400 --> 01:23:26,720
Speaker 2: those films that you mention Taxi I think Taxi, I

1403
01:23:26,760 --> 01:23:29,000
Speaker 2: know was in my top ten of that year. I

1404
01:23:29,040 --> 01:23:32,320
Speaker 2: think No Bears was also in my top ten of

1405
01:23:32,320 --> 01:23:35,559
Speaker 2: that year, or certainly my eleven through twenty. This is

1406
01:23:35,600 --> 01:23:38,880
Speaker 2: not a film got considered and was given a very

1407
01:23:38,920 --> 01:23:43,240
Speaker 2: positive review on this show. And I had forgotten Josh

1408
01:23:43,360 --> 01:23:46,400
Speaker 2: that this movie it was just an accident, won the

1409
01:23:46,439 --> 01:23:50,960
Speaker 2: palm door. I understand why this might be the film

1410
01:23:50,960 --> 01:23:53,120
Speaker 2: of the year. This might be the film of the

1411
01:23:53,160 --> 01:23:53,600
Speaker 2: year for me.

1412
01:23:54,240 --> 01:23:54,800
Speaker 3: I woke up.

1413
01:23:54,840 --> 01:23:57,559
Speaker 2: Here are the circumstances I had to wake up this

1414
01:23:57,640 --> 01:24:01,040
Speaker 2: morning to watch this movie. The only way I was

1415
01:24:01,080 --> 01:24:04,680
Speaker 2: going to get it in before my day commenced at

1416
01:24:04,720 --> 01:24:08,160
Speaker 2: all my other responsibilities and then recording the show was

1417
01:24:08,200 --> 01:24:11,280
Speaker 2: if I got up at five thirty and watched it.

1418
01:24:11,680 --> 01:24:14,280
Speaker 2: And I don't normally get up at five thirty, and

1419
01:24:14,320 --> 01:24:17,559
Speaker 2: I had forty other things on my mind that I

1420
01:24:17,600 --> 01:24:20,680
Speaker 2: could have been doing instead of watching this movie, so

1421
01:24:21,960 --> 01:24:24,559
Speaker 2: I wasn't exactly in the best mindset.

1422
01:24:24,600 --> 01:24:24,720
Speaker 4: Now.

1423
01:24:24,760 --> 01:24:28,400
Speaker 2: I was excited because it was a Panahi film, so

1424
01:24:28,520 --> 01:24:31,240
Speaker 2: it wasn't exactly like I was going to work in

1425
01:24:31,280 --> 01:24:36,280
Speaker 2: the coal mine, but I was still a little bit dismayed.

1426
01:24:37,520 --> 01:24:42,360
Speaker 2: And by the end of this film, I was well.

1427
01:24:42,400 --> 01:24:47,200
Speaker 2: I was engrossed throughout, but by the end, I think

1428
01:24:47,240 --> 01:24:50,960
Speaker 2: the only way I can describe it is I was shook.

1429
01:24:51,840 --> 01:24:58,040
Speaker 2: And that was before the actual coda of the film,

1430
01:24:58,960 --> 01:25:03,760
Speaker 2: which to me even more shook somehow. And of course

1431
01:25:03,760 --> 01:25:06,759
Speaker 2: we're not going to spoil either of these things. Everyone

1432
01:25:06,840 --> 01:25:11,440
Speaker 2: needs to experience both of these moments and these sequences

1433
01:25:11,520 --> 01:25:16,799
Speaker 2: for yourself. But just when I didn't think the movie

1434
01:25:16,800 --> 01:25:24,519
Speaker 2: could end anymore perfectly, Panahi gives us a more perfect ending.

1435
01:25:24,720 --> 01:25:28,439
Speaker 2: And I'm not exaggerating when I say shook. I was,

1436
01:25:28,720 --> 01:25:31,200
Speaker 2: I was, I was emotional, I was in a I

1437
01:25:31,240 --> 01:25:33,960
Speaker 2: was in a different state as I as I began

1438
01:25:34,120 --> 01:25:37,280
Speaker 2: my day because of this movie, and and in a

1439
01:25:37,280 --> 01:25:41,599
Speaker 2: good way, in a troubling way, because this movie is heavy.

1440
01:25:42,479 --> 01:25:44,760
Speaker 2: This this is a movie that is is going to

1441
01:25:44,800 --> 01:25:48,040
Speaker 2: make you, make you reckon with a few different a

1442
01:25:48,080 --> 01:25:53,880
Speaker 2: few different ideas, but it's an experience. And and about that,

1443
01:25:54,000 --> 01:25:56,000
Speaker 2: I just want to say, this is a movie that

1444
01:25:56,040 --> 01:26:00,080
Speaker 2: you know, it is a reckoning. Characters are reckoning with

1445
01:26:00,080 --> 01:26:03,200
Speaker 2: with their past and who they are and what they

1446
01:26:03,240 --> 01:26:05,920
Speaker 2: believe and what they stand for. And you know, we

1447
01:26:05,920 --> 01:26:08,520
Speaker 2: were even we were even talking earlier about how Bogoonnia

1448
01:26:08,560 --> 01:26:11,960
Speaker 2: is a movie that feels like it's it's of our time.

1449
01:26:13,320 --> 01:26:15,479
Speaker 2: This movie even feels like it's of our time in

1450
01:26:15,560 --> 01:26:18,599
Speaker 2: America right now. Oddly enough, right I don't know if

1451
01:26:18,600 --> 01:26:22,519
Speaker 2: you made the same connection, because just to get slightly

1452
01:26:22,560 --> 01:26:25,200
Speaker 2: political for a second, just to make this point, you

1453
01:26:25,280 --> 01:26:28,320
Speaker 2: have someone like Gavin Newsom right now talking about how

1454
01:26:28,680 --> 01:26:30,559
Speaker 2: we can't play by the old set of rules. We

1455
01:26:30,640 --> 01:26:32,560
Speaker 2: have to play by the new set of rules that

1456
01:26:33,680 --> 01:26:37,000
Speaker 2: the Republicans are playing by. And I'm inclined to agree

1457
01:26:37,040 --> 01:26:39,720
Speaker 2: with him, because how are we going to fight back

1458
01:26:39,800 --> 01:26:43,719
Speaker 2: or make any progress if the old rules don't exist,

1459
01:26:43,760 --> 01:26:46,960
Speaker 2: if the other team is ignoring that. The flip side

1460
01:26:47,000 --> 01:26:50,320
Speaker 2: to that is, well, then we're behaving just like them.

1461
01:26:51,280 --> 01:26:54,040
Speaker 2: Who are we and what's our identity if we're if

1462
01:26:54,080 --> 01:26:58,240
Speaker 2: we're behaving just like them. And this movie, in a

1463
01:26:58,520 --> 01:27:02,080
Speaker 2: completely different part of the world, with completely different stakes

1464
01:27:02,680 --> 01:27:10,439
Speaker 2: and political traumas to deal with, is posing a similar question.

1465
01:27:10,479 --> 01:27:14,640
Speaker 2: And this these characters are dealing with those those conundrums,

1466
01:27:14,640 --> 01:27:20,040
Speaker 2: those moral conundrums. You know, you know that the movie

1467
01:27:20,080 --> 01:27:24,639
Speaker 2: can only end a certain way. The characters are going

1468
01:27:24,680 --> 01:27:29,200
Speaker 2: to have to face a decision or or not. And

1469
01:27:29,760 --> 01:27:34,599
Speaker 2: it's such a it's such a surprise still how it ends,

1470
01:27:35,240 --> 01:27:38,280
Speaker 2: and so heavy and effective how it ends. And then,

1471
01:27:38,320 --> 01:27:41,240
Speaker 2: as I said, the the coda on top of it,

1472
01:27:42,000 --> 01:27:44,160
Speaker 2: I just I'm not sure. I'm not sure movies are

1473
01:27:44,200 --> 01:27:46,559
Speaker 2: going to get much better than this one for me

1474
01:27:46,760 --> 01:27:47,400
Speaker 2: this year.

1475
01:27:47,560 --> 01:27:49,960
Speaker 4: I can totally understand how someone could say this is

1476
01:27:50,000 --> 01:27:51,920
Speaker 4: the movie of the year. And it is largely in

1477
01:27:51,960 --> 01:27:56,040
Speaker 4: my mind because of that topicality that you're talking about. Obviously,

1478
01:27:56,760 --> 01:27:59,879
Speaker 4: I mean, you opened the you know, the American resonance.

1479
01:28:00,360 --> 01:28:02,160
Speaker 4: I'm going to go there but I need to, out

1480
01:28:02,160 --> 01:28:04,479
Speaker 4: of my own good conscience, because this is a conscience

1481
01:28:04,560 --> 01:28:09,439
Speaker 4: rattling film, to pay attention to the reality that it

1482
01:28:09,479 --> 01:28:13,200
Speaker 4: comes out of, and that's the political reality of people

1483
01:28:13,200 --> 01:28:17,920
Speaker 4: in Iran who have been enduring this for many, many,

1484
01:28:18,040 --> 01:28:22,599
Speaker 4: many years. It is notable that the main character here, Vahid,

1485
01:28:22,680 --> 01:28:25,760
Speaker 4: has been arrested for quote, collusion and propaganda against the

1486
01:28:25,840 --> 01:28:29,320
Speaker 4: regime end quote, and that's very similar to the charge

1487
01:28:29,320 --> 01:28:33,360
Speaker 4: that Panahi himself has been given has spent time in

1488
01:28:33,400 --> 01:28:38,760
Speaker 4: prison for. And this is a reality for people on

1489
01:28:38,800 --> 01:28:40,960
Speaker 4: the ground in Iran right now, and I want to

1490
01:28:42,000 --> 01:28:44,639
Speaker 4: make sure that we are all aware of that before

1491
01:28:44,760 --> 01:28:49,479
Speaker 4: leaping to the American implications, which I think, to your

1492
01:28:49,520 --> 01:28:57,960
Speaker 4: point are severe and immediate, and I can foresee unless

1493
01:28:57,960 --> 01:29:01,880
Speaker 4: something changes significantly, I can see a near future where

1494
01:29:01,880 --> 01:29:06,960
Speaker 4: our filmmakers, our American filmmakers, the filmmakers that we've been

1495
01:29:06,960 --> 01:29:12,320
Speaker 4: talking about on this show and praising their work their provocations,

1496
01:29:13,280 --> 01:29:16,280
Speaker 4: are going to be facing similar situations. I can see

1497
01:29:16,320 --> 01:29:20,000
Speaker 4: a future where everyday citizens are facing similar situations like

1498
01:29:20,280 --> 01:29:24,360
Speaker 4: Vahid is. And so maybe that is why the urgency

1499
01:29:24,439 --> 01:29:28,759
Speaker 4: here to this it was just an accident. No longer

1500
01:29:28,840 --> 01:29:32,080
Speaker 4: felt like a window into another world across the ocean

1501
01:29:32,640 --> 01:29:35,960
Speaker 4: to me watching it right now. And if people are

1502
01:29:35,960 --> 01:29:38,080
Speaker 4: thinking I'm being an alarmist, I'm going to once again

1503
01:29:38,840 --> 01:29:43,080
Speaker 4: ask you where a Chicago show to find a reliable

1504
01:29:43,120 --> 01:29:48,800
Speaker 4: news source and learn what's been happening in Chicago, which

1505
01:29:48,920 --> 01:29:53,040
Speaker 4: is outrageous now to get back to it was just

1506
01:29:53,080 --> 01:29:56,479
Speaker 4: an accident. I refer to this as conscience rattling because

1507
01:29:56,520 --> 01:30:01,840
Speaker 4: it is not just a simple political statement. It is

1508
01:30:01,920 --> 01:30:06,000
Speaker 4: about the difficulties that you were talking about, Adam. When

1509
01:30:06,840 --> 01:30:08,880
Speaker 4: you know something horrible has been done to you, how

1510
01:30:08,920 --> 01:30:12,120
Speaker 4: do you respond? What if you have any option you

1511
01:30:12,160 --> 01:30:15,920
Speaker 4: could have at your disposal? And it's not just Veheed

1512
01:30:15,960 --> 01:30:19,160
Speaker 4: this falls to It's very crucial that throughout the course

1513
01:30:19,200 --> 01:30:24,320
Speaker 4: of this day he meets with former associates, colleagues, others

1514
01:30:24,360 --> 01:30:26,800
Speaker 4: who had been arrested and tortured by this same man,

1515
01:30:27,040 --> 01:30:32,360
Speaker 4: and this debate ensues about what should be done. Let's

1516
01:30:32,680 --> 01:30:35,639
Speaker 4: let's not get ahead of ourselves for much of this movie,

1517
01:30:35,800 --> 01:30:37,479
Speaker 4: and we're not going to say where the answer is.

1518
01:30:38,240 --> 01:30:41,160
Speaker 4: We and Vahid don't know if this man is actually

1519
01:30:41,200 --> 01:30:44,000
Speaker 4: the person. And I think that is so crucial, Adam, right,

1520
01:30:44,040 --> 01:30:48,800
Speaker 4: because it's about the thirst for vengeance and victory overrides.

1521
01:30:48,880 --> 01:30:50,960
Speaker 4: At some point, does it even matter if this guy

1522
01:30:51,840 --> 01:30:55,000
Speaker 4: was the man who tortured them? Some of them argue

1523
01:30:55,600 --> 01:30:57,559
Speaker 4: or at least suggest or at least give you the

1524
01:30:57,560 --> 01:30:59,920
Speaker 4: impression that no, it doesn't matter. It's just an ava

1525
01:31:00,120 --> 01:31:04,200
Speaker 4: new for us to get revenge, and so the complications

1526
01:31:04,200 --> 01:31:08,920
Speaker 4: here are are endless. I think if there's any moral clarity.

1527
01:31:09,280 --> 01:31:13,519
Speaker 4: One of the former colleagues of Vahid's is a bride

1528
01:31:13,520 --> 01:31:18,400
Speaker 4: to be and the bride groom, who is not has

1529
01:31:18,479 --> 01:31:22,040
Speaker 4: not had this experience as these other others have. The

1530
01:31:22,080 --> 01:31:25,960
Speaker 4: bridegroom played by Majid, but Panahi says something to them

1531
01:31:26,160 --> 01:31:28,680
Speaker 4: at one point, it's going to be the end of

1532
01:31:28,720 --> 01:31:31,360
Speaker 4: you all, and we could you know in the in

1533
01:31:31,400 --> 01:31:34,080
Speaker 4: the moment, you think maybe he's worried about they're going

1534
01:31:34,120 --> 01:31:36,280
Speaker 4: to get caught, right because there's still work, they're still

1535
01:31:36,280 --> 01:31:38,800
Speaker 4: living under this regime. But I think he means it

1536
01:31:38,800 --> 01:31:41,960
Speaker 4: in a moral sense and just one of the This

1537
01:31:42,040 --> 01:31:44,920
Speaker 4: is a very subtly made film, but one of the

1538
01:31:45,000 --> 01:31:48,280
Speaker 4: visual date details that Panahi includes it goes back to

1539
01:31:49,080 --> 01:31:53,360
Speaker 4: this bride to be played by Hadis Puck Batten and

1540
01:31:53,400 --> 01:31:56,280
Speaker 4: she's in her bridal gown for the entirety of this day,

1541
01:31:56,920 --> 01:31:59,680
Speaker 4: and just notice as the day goes on and they

1542
01:31:59,720 --> 01:32:04,280
Speaker 4: moved different places, the white purity of that fabric gets

1543
01:32:04,360 --> 01:32:10,160
Speaker 4: dingier and dingier and dingier until we arrive where the

1544
01:32:10,160 --> 01:32:13,200
Speaker 4: movie arrives. It's hard to say much more about a

1545
01:32:13,200 --> 01:32:17,080
Speaker 4: lot of this without getting into where things go, and

1546
01:32:17,160 --> 01:32:19,160
Speaker 4: I don't think we should do that, but I will

1547
01:32:19,240 --> 01:32:21,920
Speaker 4: share that I had a similar reaction to you with

1548
01:32:21,960 --> 01:32:25,280
Speaker 4: that coda. I'm honestly still processing, like I don't know

1549
01:32:25,320 --> 01:32:28,040
Speaker 4: that it matters what that coda means politically as much

1550
01:32:28,040 --> 01:32:32,000
Speaker 4: as it matters what it means emotionally, and agreed, Yeah,

1551
01:32:32,040 --> 01:32:37,479
Speaker 4: this is a remarkable a remarkable movie for Iran and

1552
01:32:37,560 --> 01:32:38,160
Speaker 4: for the US.

1553
01:32:38,520 --> 01:32:43,280
Speaker 2: I was constantly aware of the dress and how dirty

1554
01:32:43,720 --> 01:32:46,200
Speaker 2: it was getting throughout the day, and that line I

1555
01:32:46,240 --> 01:32:49,920
Speaker 2: interpreted it the same way that you did, that this

1556
01:32:50,200 --> 01:32:54,640
Speaker 2: was going to take these characters to a place that

1557
01:32:54,680 --> 01:32:58,200
Speaker 2: they could perhaps never come back, and that was that

1558
01:32:58,320 --> 01:33:01,360
Speaker 2: was about who they are, and that was about their

1559
01:33:01,920 --> 01:33:06,320
Speaker 2: their moral choices spiritually, perhaps they were never going to

1560
01:33:06,320 --> 01:33:10,240
Speaker 2: be able to come back from where this might take them.

1561
01:33:10,520 --> 01:33:12,800
Speaker 2: The character that I think is also really fascinating in

1562
01:33:12,840 --> 01:33:16,080
Speaker 2: this film, of course, is the photographer Shiva played by

1563
01:33:16,520 --> 01:33:22,479
Speaker 2: Mariam Afshari, because she has another very insightful line. It's

1564
01:33:22,320 --> 01:33:24,600
Speaker 2: a it's a bit of a jab at vashid. But

1565
01:33:25,160 --> 01:33:27,719
Speaker 2: she says to him at one point, as he's finally

1566
01:33:27,760 --> 01:33:30,760
Speaker 2: starting to get his wits about him, Oh, this this

1567
01:33:30,880 --> 01:33:35,400
Speaker 2: makes a lot of sense. You you act hastily, you

1568
01:33:35,400 --> 01:33:39,160
Speaker 2: you respond out of vengeance, and then you get sensible.

1569
01:33:39,439 --> 01:33:43,400
Speaker 3: But that that is what a lot of us do. Now.

1570
01:33:43,400 --> 01:33:47,600
Speaker 2: Of course, I can't imagine and have never been in

1571
01:33:47,640 --> 01:33:53,200
Speaker 2: a situation like this character is responding to where he

1572
01:33:53,439 --> 01:34:01,720
Speaker 2: would feel this type of thirst for revenge. Defiably, in

1573
01:34:01,800 --> 01:34:06,679
Speaker 2: this moment, where you could feel that desire to act

1574
01:34:07,280 --> 01:34:11,080
Speaker 2: and not perhaps be able to control yourself, it could

1575
01:34:11,120 --> 01:34:15,479
Speaker 2: be justified. But she is pointing out that as the

1576
01:34:15,600 --> 01:34:17,840
Speaker 2: day goes on, and as he does calm down, and

1577
01:34:17,880 --> 01:34:21,600
Speaker 2: as he does begin to consider the ramifications and the

1578
01:34:21,680 --> 01:34:25,360
Speaker 2: ramifications of getting more people involved and where it might

1579
01:34:25,479 --> 01:34:29,960
Speaker 2: take them literally but also spiritually, then he does have

1580
01:34:30,040 --> 01:34:35,080
Speaker 2: to consider the sensibility of all this. And that's the

1581
01:34:35,240 --> 01:34:39,000
Speaker 2: questions that this movie is asking. And what I love

1582
01:34:39,320 --> 01:34:42,280
Speaker 2: I think maybe what I'm trying to express that I

1583
01:34:42,280 --> 01:34:44,240
Speaker 2: love so much about this movie is it's one of

1584
01:34:44,280 --> 01:34:47,240
Speaker 2: those films. And I swear this isn't a shot. I

1585
01:34:47,240 --> 01:34:49,439
Speaker 2: hadn't thought of it until just now. This isn't a

1586
01:34:49,479 --> 01:34:52,439
Speaker 2: shot at films like the Catherine Bigelow movie we talked

1587
01:34:52,479 --> 01:34:55,120
Speaker 2: about a couple weeks ago. But I love that this

1588
01:34:55,200 --> 01:34:59,440
Speaker 2: is a movie that is fundamentally about asking those questions,

1589
01:34:59,560 --> 01:35:06,559
Speaker 2: asking big moral and ethical questions, but it also has clarity.

1590
01:35:06,640 --> 01:35:13,040
Speaker 2: It has clarity, it has conclusions there it leaves open

1591
01:35:13,640 --> 01:35:17,320
Speaker 2: some interpretation, Josh. At the end, as you've said, as

1592
01:35:17,360 --> 01:35:20,639
Speaker 2: you noted, you can still process the ending. We could

1593
01:35:20,720 --> 01:35:24,920
Speaker 2: talk about how what we think is happening exactly at

1594
01:35:24,960 --> 01:35:27,160
Speaker 2: the end, and we can also before that coda, we

1595
01:35:27,200 --> 01:35:31,000
Speaker 2: can talk about how we feel about the decision the

1596
01:35:31,080 --> 01:35:34,439
Speaker 2: characters make. We can talk about that. Like, there's still

1597
01:35:34,520 --> 01:35:38,519
Speaker 2: stuff to interpret, but within that, I believe there's also

1598
01:35:38,720 --> 01:35:42,120
Speaker 2: clarity in what we see the characters do. And so

1599
01:35:43,200 --> 01:35:45,760
Speaker 2: that for me is a sweet spot that I think

1600
01:35:46,439 --> 01:35:47,280
Speaker 2: not a lot of films.

1601
01:35:47,320 --> 01:35:47,519
Speaker 5: Hint.

1602
01:35:47,760 --> 01:35:52,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, there's there's absolute clarity in the cost I would

1603
01:35:52,120 --> 01:35:54,040
Speaker 4: say in this movie. And I do want to say

1604
01:35:54,080 --> 01:35:56,640
Speaker 4: real quickly too, since we've been talking about performance so

1605
01:35:56,760 --> 01:36:01,000
Speaker 4: much on this show. That lead performance here by Vahid

1606
01:36:01,080 --> 01:36:04,679
Speaker 4: MOBISERI has a few other credits I've noticed, I don't

1607
01:36:04,720 --> 01:36:09,040
Speaker 4: you know, not a ton very very natural here, and

1608
01:36:09,080 --> 01:36:12,559
Speaker 4: I love how he he gives us those qualities. We

1609
01:36:12,640 --> 01:36:15,280
Speaker 4: expect that this is a guy who's obsessed and driven

1610
01:36:15,439 --> 01:36:19,480
Speaker 4: once he makes this choice to actually pursue this suspect,

1611
01:36:20,000 --> 01:36:23,599
Speaker 4: but also throughout he manages on his face to show

1612
01:36:23,640 --> 01:36:25,760
Speaker 4: that this is also a person at the same time

1613
01:36:25,920 --> 01:36:30,640
Speaker 4: completely bewildered by his own actions. And you have to

1614
01:36:31,200 --> 01:36:35,160
Speaker 4: I just think that's however he's communicating that as a

1615
01:36:35,200 --> 01:36:39,120
Speaker 4: performer is very impressive for one thing, but also it's

1616
01:36:39,160 --> 01:36:42,040
Speaker 4: crucial to these larger questions you are just talking about, right,

1617
01:36:42,080 --> 01:36:47,960
Speaker 4: this bewilderment that you've found yourself in a place like

1618
01:36:48,040 --> 01:36:49,559
Speaker 4: these characters have found themselves.

1619
01:36:49,760 --> 01:36:52,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like to some extent, he is out of control.

1620
01:36:52,720 --> 01:36:55,599
Speaker 2: And it's only later upon reflection he can see how

1621
01:36:55,640 --> 01:36:57,880
Speaker 2: out of control he is, and that he's driven by

1622
01:36:58,080 --> 01:37:00,720
Speaker 2: what you see in his performance. And I think I

1623
01:37:00,800 --> 01:37:03,800
Speaker 2: may have called the character vasheet earlier. If I did,

1624
01:37:03,960 --> 01:37:06,800
Speaker 2: I apologize Vahead. What you see in theheat is that

1625
01:37:07,560 --> 01:37:12,839
Speaker 2: is pain. Pain is driving this character. It's not purely anger.

1626
01:37:13,080 --> 01:37:16,479
Speaker 2: It's not just that he wants revenge. It's pain, and

1627
01:37:16,520 --> 01:37:20,320
Speaker 2: that undercurrent is what drives this movie and part of

1628
01:37:20,360 --> 01:37:23,920
Speaker 2: what makes it special. It was just an accident. Is

1629
01:37:24,000 --> 01:37:26,839
Speaker 2: currently playing in limited release.

1630
01:37:29,360 --> 01:37:31,120
Speaker 4: It's the biggest show in the country.

1631
01:37:34,160 --> 01:37:34,880
Speaker 3: Our Birthright.

1632
01:37:35,680 --> 01:37:39,200
Speaker 2: Next week on the Show Edgar Wright's remake of the

1633
01:37:39,320 --> 01:37:43,560
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty seven classic, Yeah you heard me, Arnold Schwarzenegger

1634
01:37:43,600 --> 01:37:47,559
Speaker 2: starring The Running Man. Josh, did you watch the original

1635
01:37:47,640 --> 01:37:51,519
Speaker 2: Running Man in nineteen eighty seven? Have you revisited it

1636
01:37:51,680 --> 01:37:52,639
Speaker 2: or visited it?

1637
01:37:53,240 --> 01:37:56,120
Speaker 4: Adam? Time is running out for me to see the

1638
01:37:56,160 --> 01:37:58,719
Speaker 4: original Running Man. I may have to rely on your

1639
01:37:58,840 --> 01:38:02,839
Speaker 4: expertise on this one. I missed it in eighty seven

1640
01:38:03,120 --> 01:38:07,759
Speaker 4: and am seen the new one tomorrow night. I don't

1641
01:38:07,800 --> 01:38:11,599
Speaker 4: know if I can justify a screening of the original

1642
01:38:11,640 --> 01:38:14,320
Speaker 4: in the next what twenty hours?

1643
01:38:14,720 --> 01:38:15,000
Speaker 3: Okay?

1644
01:38:15,000 --> 01:38:17,799
Speaker 2: I think you need to read Mary Shelley's Frankenstein again instead.

1645
01:38:19,479 --> 01:38:25,800
Speaker 2: That's more possible, actually, also more Richard linklater nouvelle vagg

1646
01:38:25,960 --> 01:38:29,360
Speaker 2: his film about the making of Gadars Breathless that comes

1647
01:38:29,400 --> 01:38:33,000
Speaker 2: to Netflix this weekend. Or you could watch Breathless again, Josh,

1648
01:38:33,040 --> 01:38:36,160
Speaker 2: to prepare for that. We will talk about that film

1649
01:38:36,200 --> 01:38:39,200
Speaker 2: next week. Also, Train Dreams is on the Dock at

1650
01:38:39,240 --> 01:38:41,640
Speaker 2: I've seen that film and I'm looking forward to that

1651
01:38:41,760 --> 01:38:46,280
Speaker 2: coming to Netflix. For a current show schedule, visitfilmspotting dot

1652
01:38:46,360 --> 01:38:50,439
Speaker 2: Net slash episodes. We did want to take a moment

1653
01:38:51,040 --> 01:38:55,400
Speaker 2: to acknowledge the passing of Diane Ladd eighty nine years old,

1654
01:38:55,479 --> 01:38:57,400
Speaker 2: three time Oscar nominee.

1655
01:38:57,479 --> 01:38:57,759
Speaker 3: Josh.

1656
01:38:57,840 --> 01:39:04,880
Speaker 2: Of course, I think of her first and foremost as Wow,

1657
01:39:05,040 --> 01:39:07,800
Speaker 2: what a character, What a character she plays. I don't

1658
01:39:07,800 --> 01:39:09,600
Speaker 2: even know how to refer to her exactly. I just

1659
01:39:09,600 --> 01:39:12,960
Speaker 2: think of her as as the Wizard of Oz inspired

1660
01:39:13,040 --> 01:39:17,200
Speaker 2: character that she plays, the mom to her actual daughter,

1661
01:39:17,280 --> 01:39:20,639
Speaker 2: Laura Dern, that character in David Lynch's Wild at Heart

1662
01:39:20,680 --> 01:39:25,160
Speaker 2: from nineteen ninety. But of course there's other great performances

1663
01:39:25,240 --> 01:39:26,800
Speaker 2: as you look over that filmography.

1664
01:39:27,080 --> 01:39:30,679
Speaker 4: Yeah, before that in Martin Scorsese's Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore.

1665
01:39:30,760 --> 01:39:33,960
Speaker 4: That was in seventy four, just after a Whild at Heart.

1666
01:39:33,960 --> 01:39:37,519
Speaker 4: In nineteen ninety one, she was in Rambling Rose. I'm

1667
01:39:37,560 --> 01:39:40,920
Speaker 4: assuming this note I have here this is producer Sam's opinion.

1668
01:39:41,320 --> 01:39:44,120
Speaker 4: Rambling Rose, a movie literally about how every man falls

1669
01:39:44,160 --> 01:39:48,960
Speaker 4: in love with Laura Dern. Okay, directed by Martha Coolidge

1670
01:39:49,000 --> 01:39:52,800
Speaker 4: that one feature and yeah Dern and Robert Duval, but

1671
01:39:53,200 --> 01:39:57,880
Speaker 4: Diane Ladd also in Chinatown, I had accessions Lynch again

1672
01:39:57,960 --> 01:40:01,040
Speaker 4: with England Empire that one all so with Dern, also

1673
01:40:01,040 --> 01:40:03,719
Speaker 4: with DRN and Alexander Payne, Citizen Ruth and of course

1674
01:40:04,360 --> 01:40:05,360
Speaker 4: Christmas Vacation.

1675
01:40:05,920 --> 01:40:10,840
Speaker 2: Yes Rip two Diane Ladd. A reminder if you are

1676
01:40:10,880 --> 01:40:14,519
Speaker 2: in the Chicago area, on November twenty fifth, as part

1677
01:40:14,520 --> 01:40:18,479
Speaker 2: of the Chicago Film Office in Chicago Department of Cultural

1678
01:40:18,520 --> 01:40:21,879
Speaker 2: Affairs their celebration of fifty years of Siskel and Ebert,

1679
01:40:22,240 --> 01:40:27,000
Speaker 2: we will have a screening of John Sale's Lone Star. Afterwards,

1680
01:40:27,040 --> 01:40:32,360
Speaker 2: myself and Michael Phillips will be recording a post screening conversation.

1681
01:40:32,640 --> 01:40:33,320
Speaker 3: It is free.

1682
01:40:33,920 --> 01:40:38,040
Speaker 2: It is at the Claudia Cassidy Theater. As I said free,

1683
01:40:38,080 --> 01:40:42,080
Speaker 2: but seating is first come, first seated. There is a

1684
01:40:42,160 --> 01:40:45,360
Speaker 2: link to RSVP in the notes for this show. I'm

1685
01:40:45,560 --> 01:40:49,960
Speaker 2: very much looking forward to revisiting on a screen bigger

1686
01:40:49,960 --> 01:40:53,240
Speaker 2: than my television Josh, that great John Sales film and

1687
01:40:53,320 --> 01:40:55,040
Speaker 2: talking about it with Michael afterwards.

1688
01:40:55,439 --> 01:40:57,720
Speaker 4: If you are not in the Chicago area but you

1689
01:40:57,800 --> 01:41:00,800
Speaker 4: are in the London area, you can join me at

1690
01:41:00,800 --> 01:41:03,439
Speaker 4: a film spotting meetup we have planned. This is going

1691
01:41:03,479 --> 01:41:07,559
Speaker 4: to be Thursday, December eleven. We have a time and

1692
01:41:07,760 --> 01:41:11,200
Speaker 4: place seven pm on December eleven. We're going to be

1693
01:41:11,200 --> 01:41:15,640
Speaker 4: at the Cafe at Cinemas two and three at the Barbican.

1694
01:41:15,880 --> 01:41:17,960
Speaker 4: So I've been to London before, have never yet been

1695
01:41:18,000 --> 01:41:22,960
Speaker 4: to the Barbican Center. This is a massive arts complex

1696
01:41:23,040 --> 01:41:27,160
Speaker 4: I understand that features music performances, theater there exhibits and

1697
01:41:27,200 --> 01:41:30,200
Speaker 4: of course a cinema. I came to know it because,

1698
01:41:30,400 --> 01:41:35,120
Speaker 4: sadly for Chicago, Rebecca Fons, who did such a wonderful

1699
01:41:35,240 --> 01:41:39,240
Speaker 4: job directing the programming at the Gene Sisco Film Center,

1700
01:41:39,880 --> 01:41:43,000
Speaker 4: recently moved to the Barbican to help with the front

1701
01:41:43,040 --> 01:41:46,880
Speaker 4: film programming there. So wanted to check that out and

1702
01:41:47,040 --> 01:41:48,800
Speaker 4: wanted to take the opportunity to meet up with some

1703
01:41:48,840 --> 01:41:54,519
Speaker 4: film spotting listeners who are in London and abouts. I'll

1704
01:41:54,600 --> 01:41:56,800
Speaker 4: leave those details I mentioned in the show notes, along

1705
01:41:56,800 --> 01:41:59,519
Speaker 4: with an RSVP form, which is always nice so we

1706
01:41:59,600 --> 01:42:03,400
Speaker 4: know who to expect. Another quick note I wanted to

1707
01:42:03,439 --> 01:42:06,160
Speaker 4: share here, Adam, you were kind enough in the setup

1708
01:42:06,200 --> 01:42:08,400
Speaker 4: for our Frankenstein review to give me a plug for

1709
01:42:08,600 --> 01:42:12,320
Speaker 4: my book Fear Not a Christian appreciation of horror movies.

1710
01:42:13,120 --> 01:42:16,679
Speaker 4: I didn't know this was happening, but the publisher let

1711
01:42:16,720 --> 01:42:19,439
Speaker 4: me know. Apparently they have a sale going on for

1712
01:42:20,160 --> 01:42:22,920
Speaker 4: not through November thirty. You could get the book for

1713
01:42:22,960 --> 01:42:27,920
Speaker 4: fifty percent off, not bad, even better free shipping, and

1714
01:42:28,160 --> 01:42:30,120
Speaker 4: you know, when they've cut that much off the price,

1715
01:42:30,200 --> 01:42:31,600
Speaker 4: you don't want to have to pay more for the

1716
01:42:31,640 --> 01:42:34,040
Speaker 4: shipping than you do for the book. So this is

1717
01:42:34,120 --> 01:42:36,200
Speaker 4: kind of a nice bonus that you get both there

1718
01:42:36,360 --> 01:42:40,640
Speaker 4: again through November thirty. You need to use code con

1719
01:42:41,080 --> 01:42:44,680
Speaker 4: f ship. I'll share that in the show notes for

1720
01:42:44,720 --> 01:42:46,599
Speaker 4: this episode as well.

1721
01:42:46,880 --> 01:42:49,160
Speaker 2: So did my setup work? I mean, did we move

1722
01:42:49,160 --> 01:42:50,639
Speaker 2: any copies? Because of that?

1723
01:42:51,680 --> 01:42:54,000
Speaker 4: I'll give you the quarterly report, Adam.

1724
01:42:54,160 --> 01:42:57,320
Speaker 2: You better so Barbican been there many a time, or

1725
01:42:57,320 --> 01:42:59,280
Speaker 2: at least you know it was back in the day

1726
01:42:59,320 --> 01:43:03,559
Speaker 2: when I spent a se semester in London and Rebecca fonds

1727
01:43:03,600 --> 01:43:06,600
Speaker 2: being at the Barbican, as you noted, bad for Chicago,

1728
01:43:07,000 --> 01:43:10,680
Speaker 2: but good for London and good for film spotting listeners

1729
01:43:11,000 --> 01:43:16,200
Speaker 2: in London and film spotting. Because after that was announced

1730
01:43:16,479 --> 01:43:19,840
Speaker 2: and I congratulated Rebecca on that. One of the first

1731
01:43:19,880 --> 01:43:22,800
Speaker 2: things that Rebecca and I started texting about was the

1732
01:43:22,880 --> 01:43:26,760
Speaker 2: inevitable film spotting live show at the Barbican.

1733
01:43:27,080 --> 01:43:29,640
Speaker 4: I'll scout it out. You know what it looks like.

1734
01:43:29,920 --> 01:43:32,479
Speaker 2: Don't have a date, don't have a plan, but yes,

1735
01:43:33,000 --> 01:43:36,680
Speaker 2: Rebecca is in. Surely we're in. We're gonna have to

1736
01:43:36,760 --> 01:43:40,040
Speaker 2: up the budget because we're flying across the pond. But

1737
01:43:40,240 --> 01:43:44,160
Speaker 2: at some point there will be a live show in London,

1738
01:43:44,479 --> 01:43:48,599
Speaker 2: so get ready for that. Isn't it funny, Josh? How

1739
01:43:49,200 --> 01:43:51,800
Speaker 2: we can go? I don't remember the last time we

1740
01:43:51,840 --> 01:43:54,439
Speaker 2: had a correction on the show. That doesn't mean we

1741
01:43:54,479 --> 01:43:58,200
Speaker 2: haven't said something that was incorrect, just that we didn't

1742
01:43:58,240 --> 01:44:00,799
Speaker 2: catch it and no one else called us out on anything.

1743
01:44:01,360 --> 01:44:05,200
Speaker 2: And then inevitably, when you hear something that you go, oh,

1744
01:44:05,320 --> 01:44:10,040
Speaker 2: that was wrong. I should acknowledge that there's always another one.

1745
01:44:10,200 --> 01:44:12,360
Speaker 2: You haven't had a correction in months or a year,

1746
01:44:12,400 --> 01:44:14,040
Speaker 2: and then all of a sudden, you have two. So

1747
01:44:14,160 --> 01:44:16,479
Speaker 2: I was listening to parts of the show last week

1748
01:44:16,520 --> 01:44:19,200
Speaker 2: and I was like, how did I say that incorrectly?

1749
01:44:19,240 --> 01:44:22,760
Speaker 2: That defeats the entire point of what I was trying

1750
01:44:22,800 --> 01:44:25,439
Speaker 2: to say. I was talking about Peter Hujar's Day, and

1751
01:44:25,479 --> 01:44:29,599
Speaker 2: I said that in the movie Peter says that women

1752
01:44:29,760 --> 01:44:33,840
Speaker 2: take better pictures than men. No, he says that women

1753
01:44:33,920 --> 01:44:38,559
Speaker 2: take better pictures of men than men. And that's a

1754
01:44:38,600 --> 01:44:42,120
Speaker 2: different that's a different thing entirely, And that goes with

1755
01:44:42,160 --> 01:44:44,320
Speaker 2: the point I was trying to make, which is, as

1756
01:44:44,360 --> 01:44:47,080
Speaker 2: he said that, I was watching the movie thinking, well,

1757
01:44:47,520 --> 01:44:53,080
Speaker 2: in this experiment, is it then notable that she's getting

1758
01:44:53,120 --> 01:44:56,639
Speaker 2: audio of him? And is she getting better audio of him?

1759
01:44:56,680 --> 01:45:00,160
Speaker 2: Because it's a woman capturing audio of a man as

1760
01:45:00,200 --> 01:45:03,280
Speaker 2: if it was a man capturing audio of another man.

1761
01:45:03,439 --> 01:45:06,240
Speaker 2: So I just wanted to clarify. I mean, I knew that,

1762
01:45:06,400 --> 01:45:10,280
Speaker 2: and somehow I just sped through it set it in correctly.

1763
01:45:10,479 --> 01:45:12,760
Speaker 4: And what's so strange, and maybe this goes to like

1764
01:45:12,880 --> 01:45:15,840
Speaker 4: doing the show together for so many years, is when

1765
01:45:15,920 --> 01:45:19,680
Speaker 4: you mentioned this correction, I was like, well, no, that

1766
01:45:19,680 --> 01:45:23,160
Speaker 4: that's exactly what he said. It's like, somehow, as you're talking,

1767
01:45:24,760 --> 01:45:27,439
Speaker 4: I know where you're going and in my mind I

1768
01:45:27,520 --> 01:45:30,599
Speaker 4: hear the correct version and missed that it had gone

1769
01:45:30,640 --> 01:45:31,120
Speaker 4: the other way.

1770
01:45:31,240 --> 01:45:34,920
Speaker 2: So well, I appreciate that. And of course what's funny

1771
01:45:34,920 --> 01:45:37,200
Speaker 2: about this is I know this is one of those corrections.

1772
01:45:37,200 --> 01:45:40,759
Speaker 2: It's sort of like only people who maybe were involved

1773
01:45:40,800 --> 01:45:44,160
Speaker 2: with the making of the film would know it's wrong,

1774
01:45:44,240 --> 01:45:47,320
Speaker 2: but still the point mattered to me, and I don't

1775
01:45:47,400 --> 01:45:49,559
Speaker 2: like getting that wrong, so I wanted to correct it.

1776
01:45:49,800 --> 01:45:53,759
Speaker 2: A more egregious air actually is one that Joe Nielsen

1777
01:45:54,160 --> 01:45:57,559
Speaker 2: caught here. It doesn't change the point at all that

1778
01:45:57,600 --> 01:45:59,880
Speaker 2: I was trying to make, but it is a factual air.

1779
01:46:00,360 --> 01:46:02,840
Speaker 2: Joe Nielsen, in the film Spotting Family Discord, pointed out

1780
01:46:02,880 --> 01:46:08,080
Speaker 2: that when I was noting that we do get the

1781
01:46:08,120 --> 01:46:12,920
Speaker 2: actual mention of the line you're the monster. Someone says

1782
01:46:13,000 --> 01:46:18,440
Speaker 2: to doctor Frankenstein, and Frankenstein, you're the monster. I suggested

1783
01:46:18,479 --> 01:46:22,080
Speaker 2: that it was the monster, the creature who says that

1784
01:46:22,160 --> 01:46:25,240
Speaker 2: to him. But it wasn't Josh. It's his brother. It's

1785
01:46:25,320 --> 01:46:28,280
Speaker 2: his brother who says that to him after the monster

1786
01:46:28,360 --> 01:46:31,559
Speaker 2: has been there in the bedroom or whatever the night

1787
01:46:31,600 --> 01:46:34,559
Speaker 2: of the wedding. So thank you Joe for pointing that out.

1788
01:46:34,920 --> 01:46:38,320
Speaker 2: The brother, not the creature. Jacob ALORDI would.

1789
01:46:38,120 --> 01:46:42,760
Speaker 4: Never, no, no, he would not. All right, with all

1790
01:46:42,760 --> 01:46:46,839
Speaker 4: that taken care of, A quick word about our sister podcast,

1791
01:46:46,880 --> 01:46:49,960
Speaker 4: The Next Picture Show looking at cinema's present via its past,

1792
01:46:50,360 --> 01:46:52,360
Speaker 4: and an important word. I mean, we always like to

1793
01:46:52,439 --> 01:46:56,240
Speaker 4: let listeners know what they're up to over there. It

1794
01:46:56,320 --> 01:46:59,519
Speaker 4: is part two of their Impaired Visions pairing, so they're

1795
01:46:59,560 --> 01:47:03,479
Speaker 4: looking at at Radu Judah's new one, Dracula. This is

1796
01:47:04,280 --> 01:47:06,000
Speaker 4: going to be paired with Fellini's eight and a half.

1797
01:47:06,040 --> 01:47:09,759
Speaker 4: That's what they talked about previously. But the real news here, Adam,

1798
01:47:10,000 --> 01:47:13,000
Speaker 4: is that this is going to be episode number four

1799
01:47:13,120 --> 01:47:17,839
Speaker 4: ninety nine, which means that next week's is number five hundred.

1800
01:47:18,000 --> 01:47:21,000
Speaker 4: Just an incredible accomplishment. We want to take a moment

1801
01:47:21,040 --> 01:47:26,719
Speaker 4: to congratulate Scott and Tasha and Genevieve and Keith number

1802
01:47:26,760 --> 01:47:30,040
Speaker 4: five hundred. It's going to be a special one off

1803
01:47:30,160 --> 01:47:35,080
Speaker 4: review of of course, the show's namesake, The Last Picture Show.

1804
01:47:35,520 --> 01:47:40,320
Speaker 4: They'll probably have some anniversary celebration and maybe some trivia

1805
01:47:40,400 --> 01:47:41,519
Speaker 4: going on as well.

1806
01:47:41,960 --> 01:47:42,280
Speaker 3: Love it.

1807
01:47:42,360 --> 01:47:45,479
Speaker 2: New episodes of The Next Picture Show drop every Tuesday

1808
01:47:45,560 --> 01:47:47,920
Speaker 2: wherever you get your podcasts, and I don't want to

1809
01:47:48,000 --> 01:47:53,400
Speaker 2: spoil any of that anniversary trivia, but knowing that five

1810
01:47:53,479 --> 01:47:59,200
Speaker 2: hundred was ahead, I was looking through the Gmail last night, Josh,

1811
01:47:59,840 --> 01:48:03,519
Speaker 2: and it was fun to go down memory lane because

1812
01:48:03,640 --> 01:48:06,519
Speaker 2: it was right after the announcement came that the dissolve

1813
01:48:07,360 --> 01:48:10,559
Speaker 2: was being dissolved, and it made me mad, and I

1814
01:48:10,600 --> 01:48:13,439
Speaker 2: loved their movie of the Week feature, and I said,

1815
01:48:14,200 --> 01:48:16,479
Speaker 2: there has to be a podcast in this, and I

1816
01:48:16,560 --> 01:48:19,600
Speaker 2: called Sam and I bantered it about with him, and

1817
01:48:19,640 --> 01:48:22,080
Speaker 2: then I don't remember who I called first, whether it

1818
01:48:22,120 --> 01:48:27,120
Speaker 2: was Tasha or Keith or Genevieve, but I floated it

1819
01:48:27,160 --> 01:48:29,200
Speaker 2: out there and we started talking about it, and then

1820
01:48:29,200 --> 01:48:32,920
Speaker 2: the email started and it's funny to look at and

1821
01:48:32,960 --> 01:48:36,400
Speaker 2: they were interested. And what happens in the emails is

1822
01:48:36,400 --> 01:48:40,040
Speaker 2: is they started talking and they recorded a demo. Is

1823
01:48:40,080 --> 01:48:43,559
Speaker 2: that there were some early names for the show that

1824
01:48:43,640 --> 01:48:46,720
Speaker 2: were not the Next Picture Show. So I'm not going

1825
01:48:46,800 --> 01:48:50,200
Speaker 2: to spoil those because maybe those are going to trivia

1826
01:48:50,280 --> 01:48:53,839
Speaker 2: questions on episode five hundred. But it's pretty funny including

1827
01:48:53,920 --> 01:48:57,200
Speaker 2: it turns out I had my own Sean Parker moment

1828
01:48:57,600 --> 01:49:00,960
Speaker 2: and didn't realize I had a Sean Parker moment. So

1829
01:49:01,160 --> 01:49:04,400
Speaker 2: we'll save that. I promise I'll rub it at some point.

1830
01:49:05,560 --> 01:49:08,120
Speaker 5: Drink, I don't want the drink.

1831
01:49:08,880 --> 01:49:10,320
Speaker 2: Don't I don't do.

1832
01:49:10,720 --> 01:49:11,479
Speaker 1: I don't do.

1833
01:49:11,720 --> 01:49:12,280
Speaker 5: I don't.

1834
01:49:12,520 --> 01:49:15,240
Speaker 3: You don't I do, don't I do?

1835
01:49:14,920 --> 01:49:18,240
Speaker 5: You don't What I say I do.

1836
01:49:17,920 --> 01:49:19,120
Speaker 2: That means I do.

1837
01:49:25,200 --> 01:49:27,360
Speaker 3: The long awaited pull results are here.

1838
01:49:27,400 --> 01:49:29,200
Speaker 2: A couple of weeks ago, we asked you to choose

1839
01:49:29,240 --> 01:49:33,320
Speaker 2: the second best Robert Zemeckis movie. His first best, Yes,

1840
01:49:33,439 --> 01:49:35,400
Speaker 2: back to the Future, was the subject of a Sacred

1841
01:49:35,439 --> 01:49:39,400
Speaker 2: Cow review on that same episode. Josh, please tell us

1842
01:49:39,439 --> 01:49:43,920
Speaker 2: the nominees for second best Zamechas Back to the Future.

1843
01:49:43,640 --> 01:49:49,040
Speaker 4: Too, Castaway, Contact, Forrest Gump, who framed Roger Rabbit, and

1844
01:49:49,640 --> 01:49:51,080
Speaker 4: you could have chosen other.

1845
01:49:51,439 --> 01:49:52,960
Speaker 2: I don't think in the history of the show we've

1846
01:49:53,000 --> 01:49:56,280
Speaker 2: ever done it this way. I can't throw myself off

1847
01:49:56,320 --> 01:50:01,080
Speaker 2: this way. You have to do the results as well.

1848
01:50:01,560 --> 01:50:05,040
Speaker 4: Math is involved, and you generally do better with that

1849
01:50:05,040 --> 01:50:07,720
Speaker 4: than I. But yeah, I've gotten used to this over

1850
01:50:07,720 --> 01:50:10,280
Speaker 4: the year. So here we go. Other last place three percent,

1851
01:50:10,760 --> 01:50:16,200
Speaker 4: back to the Future two seven percent, Castaway received ten percent.

1852
01:50:16,840 --> 01:50:18,880
Speaker 4: Little bit of a jump here For the top three,

1853
01:50:19,000 --> 01:50:22,639
Speaker 4: seventeen percent of the vote went to Contact. Nineteen percent

1854
01:50:22,680 --> 01:50:26,439
Speaker 4: of the vote went to Forrest Gump, which means, with

1855
01:50:26,680 --> 01:50:30,960
Speaker 4: forty three percent of the vote, who framed Roger Rabbit

1856
01:50:31,160 --> 01:50:35,320
Speaker 4: is decisively never to be debated again, as it is

1857
01:50:35,479 --> 01:50:40,320
Speaker 4: on a weekly basis. The second best Robert Zamecha's film.

1858
01:50:40,280 --> 01:50:43,439
Speaker 2: Okay, here's Timothy May Zamecha's didn't make a less than

1859
01:50:43,479 --> 01:50:46,000
Speaker 2: excellent movie for the first twenty five years of his career,

1860
01:50:46,200 --> 01:50:49,200
Speaker 2: and his late period has several underrated gems. I think

1861
01:50:49,200 --> 01:50:52,320
Speaker 2: people get tripped up on the satirical or cutting elements

1862
01:50:52,360 --> 01:50:54,360
Speaker 2: of his movies because he also wants you to care

1863
01:50:54,400 --> 01:50:56,800
Speaker 2: about the characters, which is a tricky mix that's not

1864
01:50:56,840 --> 01:50:59,479
Speaker 2: going to work for all viewers. But big, ambitious Hollywood

1865
01:50:59,479 --> 01:51:02,479
Speaker 2: storytelling can and should contain these sorts of contradictions. His

1866
01:51:02,600 --> 01:51:07,080
Speaker 2: closest cousin is probably Capra, another filmmaker who's assumed small

1867
01:51:07,120 --> 01:51:10,600
Speaker 2: sea conservatism is belied by a deep distrust of institutions

1868
01:51:10,600 --> 01:51:13,080
Speaker 2: of power and wealth present in most of his work.

1869
01:51:13,360 --> 01:51:16,360
Speaker 2: That's what makes Roger Rabbit his magnum opus. It's a

1870
01:51:16,400 --> 01:51:20,040
Speaker 2: technically astonishing movie about the human or tune cost of

1871
01:51:20,080 --> 01:51:24,680
Speaker 2: groundbreaking innovation, a simultaneous celebration and condemnation of Hollywood's role

1872
01:51:24,680 --> 01:51:28,560
Speaker 2: in creating the American century, the sentimentality and the cynicism

1873
01:51:29,000 --> 01:51:33,519
Speaker 2: in perfect balance. He makes a stronger case than that

1874
01:51:33,600 --> 01:51:34,320
Speaker 2: movie deserves.

1875
01:51:34,720 --> 01:51:40,280
Speaker 4: Ah wow, Okay, sorry, I'm just gonna set that aside

1876
01:51:40,360 --> 01:51:44,320
Speaker 4: because I'm I love this Capra comp I'm gonna have

1877
01:51:44,360 --> 01:51:47,160
Speaker 4: to give that some ore thought. Yeah, tithy, thank you,

1878
01:51:47,240 --> 01:51:48,920
Speaker 4: thank you for that. All right, but for now, let's

1879
01:51:48,960 --> 01:51:52,640
Speaker 4: move on to Anthony Reich. Who Framed Roger Rabbit is

1880
01:51:52,920 --> 01:51:56,280
Speaker 4: a masterpiece. I do not get why neither Sam or

1881
01:51:56,320 --> 01:51:59,000
Speaker 4: Adam like it, but Josh must like it, as he

1882
01:51:59,240 --> 01:52:02,320
Speaker 4: likes all films with the word rabbit in the title.

1883
01:52:03,479 --> 01:52:05,679
Speaker 4: Having given true and a half out of four stars

1884
01:52:05,680 --> 01:52:10,360
Speaker 4: to rabbit Proof Fence, Jojo Rabbit, Rabbit Hole, and Wallace

1885
01:52:10,400 --> 01:52:13,120
Speaker 4: and Gromit Curse of the wear Rabbit, one can only

1886
01:52:13,240 --> 01:52:17,800
Speaker 4: logically assume he has given Who Framed Roger Rabbit three

1887
01:52:17,840 --> 01:52:21,960
Speaker 4: and a half out of four stars two. I mean, well,

1888
01:52:21,960 --> 01:52:24,240
Speaker 4: first of all, Roger Rabbit is four and a half

1889
01:52:24,240 --> 01:52:29,160
Speaker 4: out of five. But Anthony, I think I have to retire.

1890
01:52:29,400 --> 01:52:33,200
Speaker 4: I think Anthony has has broken the code. My stick

1891
01:52:33,280 --> 01:52:33,639
Speaker 4: is over.

1892
01:52:33,920 --> 01:52:40,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's done. You do have a stick. You're that predictable. Wow,

1893
01:52:40,560 --> 01:52:41,400
Speaker 2: I'm pro rabbit.

1894
01:52:41,400 --> 01:52:45,000
Speaker 3: I don't even own a rabbit. Yeah, okay, oh oh.

1895
01:52:45,640 --> 01:52:50,280
Speaker 4: Don't don't get me into my childhood pet rabbit story, Adam,

1896
01:52:50,400 --> 01:52:55,040
Speaker 4: things will take a very sad turn. Poor hoppy rip hoppy.

1897
01:52:56,160 --> 01:52:59,880
Speaker 2: I think I think these lopsided pull results demanded sake

1898
01:53:00,120 --> 01:53:03,839
Speaker 2: cow review for Roger Rabbit, it's head and shoulders, ears

1899
01:53:03,880 --> 01:53:07,360
Speaker 2: and tails above back to the Future. Now, even Josh

1900
01:53:07,680 --> 01:53:10,800
Speaker 2: rabbit obsessed king won't abide that.

1901
01:53:11,640 --> 01:53:14,240
Speaker 4: No, no, it's not It's not better than back to

1902
01:53:14,280 --> 01:53:17,240
Speaker 4: the Future. And we're not doing it because you know,

1903
01:53:17,800 --> 01:53:21,559
Speaker 4: even Adam's skepticism about back to the Future, it's just

1904
01:53:21,600 --> 01:53:26,519
Speaker 4: gonna get amped up to intolerable degrees with who framed

1905
01:53:26,560 --> 01:53:29,760
Speaker 4: Roger Rabbit. We have to keep Adam away from who

1906
01:53:29,800 --> 01:53:31,720
Speaker 4: framed Roger Rabbit for everyone's sake.

1907
01:53:32,240 --> 01:53:34,240
Speaker 3: Edwin Arnden is next.

1908
01:53:34,600 --> 01:53:40,320
Speaker 4: We love to hate on Forrest Gump, but it's Forrest Gump. Okay, okay, sure,

1909
01:53:40,320 --> 01:53:41,639
Speaker 4: how to take that? Edwin?

1910
01:53:42,400 --> 01:53:45,240
Speaker 2: Here's Jack a bit more detail. When I put together

1911
01:53:45,280 --> 01:53:47,680
Speaker 2: my best of the two thousands list, Castaway came in

1912
01:53:47,680 --> 01:53:51,320
Speaker 2: at number two behind There will be Blood. Zamechas often

1913
01:53:51,360 --> 01:53:54,719
Speaker 2: walks the line between trailblazing and gimmickry, but the Maroon

1914
01:53:54,840 --> 01:53:58,080
Speaker 2: Island segment of Castaway is decidedly in the former category.

1915
01:53:58,280 --> 01:54:01,439
Speaker 2: Few films have so viscfully wrecked and with the indispensability

1916
01:54:01,479 --> 01:54:05,120
Speaker 2: of human connection, are confronted in such stark terms, how

1917
01:54:05,160 --> 01:54:08,240
Speaker 2: lost we would become in its sudden and utter absence.

1918
01:54:08,600 --> 01:54:12,520
Speaker 2: Castaways should be considered among the great works of American naturalism,

1919
01:54:12,760 --> 01:54:17,400
Speaker 2: alongside Stephen Crane's Open Boat. Instead, it's trailing, the one

1920
01:54:17,600 --> 01:54:23,719
Speaker 2: about the cartoon rabbit. Josh Stupid is as stupid does. Indeed,

1921
01:54:23,760 --> 01:54:26,320
Speaker 2: our listeners are on a heater man.

1922
01:54:26,560 --> 01:54:29,960
Speaker 4: Just to imagine if Castaway, instead of the volleyball, it

1923
01:54:30,000 --> 01:54:33,480
Speaker 4: was a rabbit. Oh, now you're cooking all right, here's

1924
01:54:33,600 --> 01:54:39,040
Speaker 4: John Huntsinger. The deeply flawed description is frequently overused, but

1925
01:54:39,080 --> 01:54:43,360
Speaker 4: it certainly applies here, with Romancing the Stone inexplicably left

1926
01:54:43,520 --> 01:54:44,360
Speaker 4: off the list.

1927
01:54:44,760 --> 01:54:46,760
Speaker 2: You know what, he might be right, because I think

1928
01:54:46,840 --> 01:54:50,000
Speaker 2: that would probably be my favorite film of the bunch.

1929
01:54:50,080 --> 01:54:50,400
Speaker 3: Thank you.

1930
01:54:50,520 --> 01:54:53,960
Speaker 2: John Danny Cox says, I'm probably lying to myself by

1931
01:54:54,000 --> 01:54:57,200
Speaker 2: not going with Roger Rabbit, but I absolutely love his

1932
01:54:57,360 --> 01:54:59,640
Speaker 2: debut film, I Want to Hold Your Hand. It's a

1933
01:54:59,640 --> 01:55:01,880
Speaker 2: coming age story that blends the real life event of

1934
01:55:01,880 --> 01:55:04,120
Speaker 2: the Beatles appearing on The Ed Sullivan Show with a

1935
01:55:04,160 --> 01:55:07,200
Speaker 2: fictional coming of age story akindo American graffiti. It is

1936
01:55:07,240 --> 01:55:10,040
Speaker 2: not only funny, but technically inventive and has the same heart.

1937
01:55:10,360 --> 01:55:13,320
Speaker 2: That's a mechasan Gail brought to all of their early films,

1938
01:55:13,320 --> 01:55:16,640
Speaker 2: including Back to the Future. It's seemingly only available on

1939
01:55:16,680 --> 01:55:21,200
Speaker 2: the physical Criterion release, but very worth tracking down. Haven't

1940
01:55:21,240 --> 01:55:21,720
Speaker 2: seen it.

1941
01:55:21,760 --> 01:55:25,520
Speaker 4: Josh, I have not as well. I'm I'm unfortunately not

1942
01:55:25,680 --> 01:55:28,840
Speaker 4: a Zamechas completist, and yeah, I want to hold your hand.

1943
01:55:29,080 --> 01:55:30,040
Speaker 4: Is a reason why.

1944
01:55:30,440 --> 01:55:35,200
Speaker 2: Here is our new deeply flawed film spotting poll. Earlier

1945
01:55:35,600 --> 01:55:41,200
Speaker 2: we reviewed Bogonia, the fourth collaboration between Yorghostlanthemos and Emma Stone.

1946
01:55:41,600 --> 01:55:44,680
Speaker 2: How does that duo compare though with some other actor

1947
01:55:44,760 --> 01:55:48,680
Speaker 2: director pairings we've had this century. Here is how we're

1948
01:55:48,680 --> 01:55:53,720
Speaker 2: phrasing this one, Pole, and you're far too many options

1949
01:55:53,720 --> 01:55:55,880
Speaker 2: that we are giving you. Oh my god, Josh, this

1950
01:55:55,920 --> 01:55:59,120
Speaker 2: one went off the rails and I knew it was

1951
01:55:59,120 --> 01:56:02,040
Speaker 2: going off the rails, and I sidebarred it. I took

1952
01:56:02,040 --> 01:56:04,560
Speaker 2: it out of the slack channel. I side barred it

1953
01:56:04,600 --> 01:56:06,320
Speaker 2: to the private Adam and Sam channel.

1954
01:56:06,760 --> 01:56:10,040
Speaker 4: Just for your sake, Adam, you don't have to get

1955
01:56:10,080 --> 01:56:14,000
Speaker 4: me anything for Christmas this year. That is the best gift.

1956
01:56:14,720 --> 01:56:18,600
Speaker 4: And you're now possibly understanding why I originally lobbied for

1957
01:56:18,720 --> 01:56:22,680
Speaker 4: the Stone versus Lawrence Pole. But you chose this, Let's

1958
01:56:22,720 --> 01:56:22,880
Speaker 4: do it.

1959
01:56:23,160 --> 01:56:26,440
Speaker 2: I don't know that. You don't think I don't know that.

1960
01:56:26,560 --> 01:56:30,120
Speaker 2: And also, here's what you're gonna love the most. There

1961
01:56:30,200 --> 01:56:34,200
Speaker 2: was a point in this process this morning where I said, Sam,

1962
01:56:34,680 --> 01:56:37,440
Speaker 2: I think you should go back to Stone versus Lawrence.

1963
01:56:40,040 --> 01:56:42,880
Speaker 2: But I go, Joshua, right, just go back to Stone v.

1964
01:56:43,000 --> 01:56:43,440
Speaker 3: Lawrence.

1965
01:56:44,920 --> 01:56:46,560
Speaker 4: Let's do it. Let's get into it.

1966
01:56:46,720 --> 01:56:49,360
Speaker 2: He was, he was too deep. He was, he was

1967
01:56:49,440 --> 01:56:54,040
Speaker 2: too deep down the rabbit hole. And and here we are. Okay,

1968
01:56:54,400 --> 01:56:58,800
Speaker 2: so you're you're gonna be reading options for days. I'll

1969
01:56:58,840 --> 01:57:03,240
Speaker 2: read this shorter question. Only one actor director duo can

1970
01:57:03,280 --> 01:57:07,560
Speaker 2: continue making movies together. Choose the criteria. I guess it's

1971
01:57:07,600 --> 01:57:10,400
Speaker 2: not a short poll question. The criteria is their first

1972
01:57:10,440 --> 01:57:13,440
Speaker 2: collaboration had to have come out the year two thousand

1973
01:57:13,600 --> 01:57:17,880
Speaker 2: or later. Oh, there's another stipulation, minimum two films. But

1974
01:57:17,920 --> 01:57:20,960
Speaker 2: that's it, Josh, there's no more stipulations. There's no more

1975
01:57:21,000 --> 01:57:26,800
Speaker 2: criteria two thousand or later, minimum two films. Read all

1976
01:57:26,840 --> 01:57:29,200
Speaker 2: of the options, Josh.

1977
01:57:29,320 --> 01:57:34,640
Speaker 4: Why do we have nine options? Okay, I'm just gonna

1978
01:57:34,680 --> 01:57:34,920
Speaker 4: do it.

1979
01:57:35,000 --> 01:57:37,640
Speaker 3: Hey, hey, Ryan Kugler, the blackjack dealer.

1980
01:57:37,920 --> 01:57:40,120
Speaker 2: You know when the dealer goes like this, just steps

1981
01:57:40,160 --> 01:57:43,720
Speaker 2: away from the table, that's me, okay.

1982
01:57:44,400 --> 01:57:48,360
Speaker 4: Ryan Coogler or Michael B. Jordan four films, Sophia Coppola,

1983
01:57:48,720 --> 01:57:52,960
Speaker 4: Kirsten Dunks three films. Yes, we want to make clear

1984
01:57:53,080 --> 01:57:56,960
Speaker 4: The Virgin Suicides is a two thousand film. Gretig Gerwig

1985
01:57:56,960 --> 01:58:00,440
Speaker 4: ands Sir Shavronan two films. Jordan Peel and Daniel Yeah

1986
01:58:00,600 --> 01:58:04,000
Speaker 4: two films. Your Ghost, Lanthemos and Emmastone are a part

1987
01:58:04,080 --> 01:58:09,040
Speaker 4: of this poll. Four films. Christopher Nolan, Killean Murphy six films,

1988
01:58:09,760 --> 01:58:13,680
Speaker 4: Paul Thomas Anderson and Joaquin Phoenix two films together. Kelly Rerikert,

1989
01:58:13,680 --> 01:58:18,600
Speaker 4: Michelle Williams four films. Wes Anderson and Ray Fines made

1990
01:58:18,720 --> 01:58:23,440
Speaker 4: this list with only well one film in one project.

1991
01:58:23,560 --> 01:58:26,800
Speaker 4: We're calling, Oh my gosh, this is just like opening

1992
01:58:26,880 --> 01:58:31,480
Speaker 4: up a whole other. Yeah, okay, do you need to know?

1993
01:58:31,800 --> 01:58:33,480
Speaker 4: You need to know? Is that's an option? I'm not

1994
01:58:33,680 --> 01:58:38,280
Speaker 4: going down this path. Other you can choose, because because

1995
01:58:38,360 --> 01:58:41,720
Speaker 4: nine options are not enough, there's not enough you can

1996
01:58:41,800 --> 01:58:42,320
Speaker 4: choose other.

1997
01:58:43,240 --> 01:58:46,280
Speaker 2: No, you're not getting my pick to play the game.

1998
01:58:46,760 --> 01:58:48,919
Speaker 2: You're choosing not to play the game. Your protests.

1999
01:58:48,920 --> 01:58:50,879
Speaker 3: You know who I choose staining in protest.

2000
01:58:51,000 --> 01:58:53,360
Speaker 4: I've thought about it. I think I am going to

2001
01:58:53,440 --> 01:58:54,480
Speaker 4: choose Jennifer Lawrence.

2002
01:58:54,720 --> 01:58:56,600
Speaker 2: Jennifer Lawrence, I knew you were going to say that

2003
01:58:58,200 --> 01:59:00,440
Speaker 2: fair enough, and you know what I'm I'm going to

2004
01:59:00,480 --> 01:59:05,720
Speaker 2: save my answer for later. How about that? We would

2005
01:59:05,720 --> 01:59:08,640
Speaker 2: love to hear your vote. We'd love to hear your

2006
01:59:08,720 --> 01:59:12,280
Speaker 2: comments on this deeply flawed poll, and we'll share the

2007
01:59:12,280 --> 01:59:14,240
Speaker 2: results in a couple of weeks. How about that. That's

2008
01:59:14,320 --> 01:59:16,560
Speaker 2: the end of our show. God bless you.

2009
01:59:16,640 --> 01:59:20,480
Speaker 4: Sam. You can always weigh in on our polls via

2010
01:59:20,600 --> 01:59:23,600
Speaker 4: social media as well. Let us know what you're thinking there.

2011
01:59:23,640 --> 01:59:28,480
Speaker 4: You can find Adam and the show on Instagram, Facebook, letterbox, YouTube.

2012
01:59:28,600 --> 01:59:31,680
Speaker 4: He's at film spotting, I'm at all those places as

2013
01:59:31,800 --> 01:59:36,280
Speaker 4: Larsen on film We are independently produced and listeners supported.

2014
01:59:36,640 --> 01:59:39,480
Speaker 4: You can support the show by joining the film Spotting Family,

2015
01:59:39,520 --> 01:59:42,240
Speaker 4: and you can do it at filmspottingfamily dot com. That

2016
01:59:42,320 --> 01:59:44,760
Speaker 4: way you can listen early. You'll also be able to

2017
01:59:44,760 --> 01:59:48,200
Speaker 4: listen without any ads. What's more, you'll get a weekly

2018
01:59:48,280 --> 01:59:51,760
Speaker 4: newsletter from Sam, which I promise you is not always

2019
01:59:51,920 --> 01:59:55,800
Speaker 4: about these interminable polls. Lots of good stuff in those newsletters.

2020
01:59:56,040 --> 02:00:00,040
Speaker 4: You also get monthly bonus episodes and access to the

2021
02:00:00,120 --> 02:00:03,760
Speaker 4: Hire Show archive. Now for show t shirts another merch

2022
02:00:04,000 --> 02:00:07,520
Speaker 4: you can just go to film spotting dot net slash shop.

2023
02:00:07,840 --> 02:00:10,640
Speaker 2: A few highlights in the film Spotting archive relevant to

2024
02:00:10,880 --> 02:00:15,040
Speaker 2: this week's show. We have reviewed six your Ghos Lanthymos

2025
02:00:15,120 --> 02:00:18,760
Speaker 2: movies going back to Alps No Thus speaking of Sean

2026
02:00:18,800 --> 02:00:21,640
Speaker 2: Parker dropped the favorite and poor Things, we put it

2027
02:00:21,680 --> 02:00:24,880
Speaker 2: back in the feed. This week we talked about Lynn

2028
02:00:25,000 --> 02:00:28,200
Speaker 2: Ramsey's You Were Never Really Here, and some listeners would

2029
02:00:28,240 --> 02:00:30,920
Speaker 2: probably like to forget that. We reviewed twenty eleven's we

2030
02:00:30,960 --> 02:00:32,840
Speaker 2: Need to talk About Kevin. We're not going to talk

2031
02:00:32,840 --> 02:00:38,160
Speaker 2: about Kevin Kelly Reiker. Three interviews, Certain Women, first Cow

2032
02:00:38,400 --> 02:00:40,760
Speaker 2: and Showing Up and reviews going all the way back

2033
02:00:40,760 --> 02:00:44,480
Speaker 2: to Meek's Cutoff. And I mentioned Panahi Josh nineteen ninety

2034
02:00:44,520 --> 02:00:46,320
Speaker 2: seven is the Mirror in two thousand and six is

2035
02:00:46,360 --> 02:00:49,919
Speaker 2: off Side that was part of our Contemporary Iranian Cinema

2036
02:00:49,920 --> 02:00:53,560
Speaker 2: Marathon in twenty twelve, one of your first and no

2037
02:00:53,640 --> 02:00:56,920
Speaker 2: Panahi films outside of that marathon, but many appearances, I

2038
02:00:56,960 --> 02:01:00,400
Speaker 2: thought there were multiple appearances on Top ten list only

2039
02:01:00,400 --> 02:01:03,080
Speaker 2: has twenty fifteen's Taxi listed, But I do know I

2040
02:01:03,120 --> 02:01:06,200
Speaker 2: was a big fan of those other films streaming out

2041
02:01:06,200 --> 02:01:11,160
Speaker 2: this weekend, Richard Linklater's Nouvelle Vague on Netflix and Peter

2042
02:01:11,280 --> 02:01:13,880
Speaker 2: Hujar's Day, which I recommended last week, is playing at

2043
02:01:13,880 --> 02:01:17,440
Speaker 2: the Cisco Film Center in Chicago. Yoakum Triers Sentiment of

2044
02:01:17,560 --> 02:01:21,720
Speaker 2: Value is playing in Chicago and is coming to theaters

2045
02:01:22,120 --> 02:01:25,360
Speaker 2: near nearer to us Josh a little later this month.

2046
02:01:25,440 --> 02:01:28,600
Speaker 2: We plan to talk about it here soon on the show.

2047
02:01:29,120 --> 02:01:33,040
Speaker 2: In wide release, Wow, I have missed this one completely,

2048
02:01:33,120 --> 02:01:36,240
Speaker 2: but it seems that director Osgood Perkins has his third

2049
02:01:36,240 --> 02:01:39,120
Speaker 2: film in two years coming out after Long Legs and

2050
02:01:39,160 --> 02:01:41,560
Speaker 2: The Monkey Keeper. Have you heard about this one?

2051
02:01:41,720 --> 02:01:44,760
Speaker 4: I did hear he had another movie coming. I saw

2052
02:01:44,840 --> 02:01:46,920
Speaker 4: Long Legs, didn't get to the Monkey and now I'm

2053
02:01:46,960 --> 02:01:49,960
Speaker 4: going to be two behind. So yeah, man, this guy's

2054
02:01:49,960 --> 02:01:50,800
Speaker 4: cranking them ountain.

2055
02:01:51,000 --> 02:01:55,800
Speaker 2: How about the third installment of the Now You See

2056
02:01:55,840 --> 02:01:58,440
Speaker 2: Me trilogy. I don't know what we call it, but yes,

2057
02:01:58,480 --> 02:02:02,800
Speaker 2: there's a now that's what that's what we're going with.

2058
02:02:03,240 --> 02:02:07,200
Speaker 2: Jesse Eisenberg, Woody Harrelson. I haven't seen any of these films.

2059
02:02:07,200 --> 02:02:09,400
Speaker 2: I know some people think they're very fun, and I

2060
02:02:09,520 --> 02:02:12,280
Speaker 2: like the cast. I should probably watch one at some point,

2061
02:02:12,280 --> 02:02:14,600
Speaker 2: but it will not be next week because instead we

2062
02:02:14,640 --> 02:02:16,960
Speaker 2: are going to talk about Edgar Wrights The Running Man,

2063
02:02:17,280 --> 02:02:20,040
Speaker 2: the remake with Glenn Powell. We will also talk about

2064
02:02:20,040 --> 02:02:24,360
Speaker 2: link Later's Nouvelle Vague and Train Dreams starring Joel Edgerton.

2065
02:02:24,800 --> 02:02:28,560
Speaker 2: I'm sure we'll get up to other related hijinks.

2066
02:02:28,960 --> 02:02:32,160
Speaker 4: Film Spotting is produced by Golden Joe Desso and Sam

2067
02:02:32,280 --> 02:02:35,600
Speaker 4: van Holgren. Without Sam and Golden Joe, this show wouldn't go.

2068
02:02:36,040 --> 02:02:40,200
Speaker 4: Our production assistant is Sophie Kempinar. Special thanks to everyone

2069
02:02:40,240 --> 02:02:43,840
Speaker 4: at wb EASY Chicago. You can find more information at

2070
02:02:43,960 --> 02:02:48,240
Speaker 4: WBEAZ dot org. For film Spotting, I'm Josh Larson.

2071
02:02:48,040 --> 02:02:51,360
Speaker 2: And I'm Adam Kempinar. Thanks for listening and watching. This

2072
02:02:51,560 --> 02:03:12,800
Speaker 2: conversation can serve no purpose anymore but Burne. Film Spotting

2073
02:03:12,840 --> 02:03:15,560
Speaker 2: is listeners supported. Join the film Spotting Family at film

2074
02:03:15,600 --> 02:03:18,879
Speaker 2: Spotting family dot com and get access to ad free episodes,

2075
02:03:18,920 --> 02:03:22,120
Speaker 2: monthly bonus shows, our weekly newsletter, and, for the first time,

2076
02:03:22,200 --> 02:03:25,280
Speaker 2: all in one place, the entire film Spotting archive going

2077
02:03:25,320 --> 02:03:27,680
Speaker 2: back to two thousand and five. That's a film Spotting

2078
02:03:27,760 --> 02:03:32,160
Speaker 2: Family dot com Panically